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gungo wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

 Ideasweasel wrote:
My initial thoughts

Crossing *everything* the free weapons stuff stays. Crusader and Castellans looking good. One got less of a nerf than I thought and one actually got a buff

Maybe the sky isn’t falling

I think your going to see that FAQ'd to be 730 asap.

That’s likely but maybe chaos gets faqd Down instead of imperial up

They nerfed the Castellan because it was to good with a bunch of CP to pump into it.
Makes no sense to revert that change when they give all Knight armies a bunch of CP to pump with 9th.

New edition changed from kill for mission to score objectives with an emphasis on vehicles and vehicle hunters...
Taking a superheavy in a mixed force is now a high cp Cost and taking a superheavy detachment makes it hard to score missions....As well as All the nerfs to strats still stand.
In other words this isn’t a knight friendly edition....

At 730 this model isn’t viable heck at 630 You are hard pressed to win these missions with a knight detachment.

 Ordana wrote:

gungo wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

 Ideasweasel wrote:
My initial thoughts

Crossing *everything* the free weapons stuff stays. Crusader and Castellans looking good. One got less of a nerf than I thought and one actually got a buff

Maybe the sky isn’t falling

I think your going to see that FAQ'd to be 730 asap.

That’s likely but maybe chaos gets faqd Down instead of imperial up

They nerfed the Castellan because it was to good with a bunch of CP to pump into it.
Makes no sense to revert that change when they give all Knight armies a bunch of CP to pump with 9th.

To be fair when it's not house raven with Cawls wrath and the stupid reroll every dice strategum it's horrifyingly over pointed but I'd rather that than risk everything else in the codex get nerfed for one stupid model.

Can't say I'll miss never seeing a castellen ever again.
Idiotic unit design and impoasible to balance.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

gungo wrote:
New edition changed from kill for mission to score objectives with an emphasis on vehicles and vehicle hunters...
Taking a superheavy in a mixed force is now a high cp Cost and taking a superheavy detachment makes it hard to score missions....As well as All the nerfs to strats still stand.
In other words this isn’t a knight friendly edition....

My pure knight's lists is liking 9th just fine.

And souping in 1 knight should have pervented strategums and households full stop and force any super heavy aux knight to be a freeblade would have stoped castellens before they broke knoghts for 8th.

Castigator
preceptor
2x Moirax

Admech

U02dah4 wrote:
Castigator
preceptor
2x Moirax

Admech

Nice
My lists is looking like
Preceptor * also now glad I built him with the multilaser.
1 helverin
3 moriax
2 warglaves
Will test out second big knight to see what works or go with more moriax as they seemed to come out of the points change best as they dont have to pay 5pt for a stubber.

I think mine is

Catachan patrol
2 basilisks (full payload)
1 wyvern
Master of ordinance WL
Company commander with kurovs Aquila

Taranis Superheavy detachment

3x ironstorm

Crusader
Crusader
Gallant

Artillery gives me a bit of hope versus the obscuring rule. Not much CP to play with though.

Testing it out this week

 Ideasweasel wrote:
I think mine is

Catachan patrol
2 basilisks (full payload)
1 wyvern
Master of ordinance WL
Company commander with kurovs Aquila

Taranis Superheavy detachment

3x ironstorm

Crusader
Crusader
Gallant

Artillery gives me a bit of hope versus the obscuring rule. Not much CP to play with though.

Testing it out this week

Your missing a Troops unit 1

Unless your doing something wonky I'm not seeing
You are going to find yourself with a hard time scoring in 9th missions.

You'd also save 4 CP if you made a knight your Warlord.

Whoops I meant 3x 10 guardsmen and it’s also a spearhead not a patrol

And yeah I’d have more CP...but by electing a guard character as a warlord - and forgoing his trait you can choose to make 2 basilisks flat 3 damage. (Using the tank ace strat too)

So the idea is you have 2 flat 3 damage basilisks shelling the enemies cheesing obscuring LOS. The Guardsmen push up to objectives or act as a screen and then the knights move up to the mid board

It’s a variation in what i was finding success with tail end of 8th

 Ideasweasel wrote:
Whoops I meant 3x 10 guardsmen and it’s also a spearhead not a patrol

And yeah I’d have more CP...but by electing a guard character as a warlord - and forgoing his trait you can choose to make 2 basilisks flat 3 damage. (Using the tank ace strat too)

So the idea is you have 2 flat 3 damage basilisks shelling the enemies cheesing obscuring LOS. The Guardsmen push up to objectives or act as a screen and then the knights move up to the mid board

It’s a variation in what i was finding success with tail end of 8th

You should make it a Patrol in 9th: recoup the CPs since your WL is in the guard list, as it stands now you are spending 10CPs just to field it(3 for Spearhead, 6 For Superheavy, and 1 for second Tank Ace). Making it a patrol(with both Bassies in 1 datasheet vehicle squadron) will only spend 7.

Oh snap I missed that.

Damn maybe I’ll just suck it up and play pure knights.

Thanks for pointing that out.

gungo wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

 Ideasweasel wrote:
My initial thoughts

Crossing *everything* the free weapons stuff stays. Crusader and Castellans looking good. One got less of a nerf than I thought and one actually got a buff

Maybe the sky isn’t falling

I think your going to see that FAQ'd to be 730 asap.

That’s likely but maybe chaos gets faqd Down instead of imperial up

It'd be really weird to have such a unique gun not be rolled into the cost of the model like it is everywhere else.

Anyone read up on assassins? Are we able to take one in a SHD or do we need to spend 2CP using the old strat/take an auxiliary?

Can’t seem to find what I’m looking for

 Ideasweasel wrote:
Anyone read up on assassins? Are we able to take one in a SHD or do we need to spend 2CP using the old strat/take an auxiliary?

Can’t seem to find what I’m looking for

Agents of the Imperium Only let's you take them in Patrol, Brigade, and Battalion.

Execution Force only allows Vanguard detachments.

We do not know yet is War of the Spider supercedes the old Strats(as in they are removed and replaced with only the ones in PA: War of the Spider), so maybe; maybe not on using the old strat.

an Auxiliary Detachment still works, but you might as well just take a patrol for the same CP(and additional scoring unit{s}).

I've been considering starting Knights.

In particular, I've been considering a pair of Knights (possibly a third) with perhaps 6 Armigers total (2 of each type).

Having skimmed several guides, there's one combination that I hadn't seen discussed much (or at least, that I could find - I doubt I'm the first) which I was considering for my primary Warlord.

House Krast Cerastus Knight-Castigator with The Headsman's Mark. With a 16 shot Avenger cannon equivalent, you're getting plenty of bang for your buck for each +1 or +2 D you add, and its Tempest Warblade seems like it benefits extremely well from the same, as it has the Strength needed to wound almost anything (even Knights) on 3+ or better, the AP to get through most armor, and up to 5 flat D per hit... and you get twice the number of attacks.

8 S14 -3 5D attacks (rerolling 1's if you charged) against an enemy knight seems like it'd be respectable output for such a versatile build - Reaper Chainswords would be 4 8D attacks but otherwise the same, which seems to strongly favor the Tempest Warblade. Gauntlets still hit harder, I'm sure, but the Warblade's consistency through quantity seems like it helps lessen the gap considerably (and is also a great middle ground between stomps and Gauntlet attacks for elite-but-not-Titan enemy models).

All this on a foundation that's a little bit faster and has a few more wounds.

Lots of great warlord traits could apply here, seems like, since this Knight defaults to pretty good shooting AND melee - the T'au player in me leans towards a constant 4++ vs ranged attacks, or rerolling 1s to hit... But 10 Tempest Warblade Attacks a round is reaching Smash Captain levels of terrifying, and would be great combined with that attack-boosting Stratagem.

Am I completely off my rocker here? Again, total newb to Imperial Knights here, all I know is based on a few newbie guides.

Wouldn't the Reaper be doing 8 Damage against an enemy Knight?

 JNAProductions wrote:
Wouldn't the Reaper be doing 8 Damage against an enemy Knight?

I stealth edited that in. Closer, but I still think twice the attacks at 5 damage is superior in most fronts (even at -1 damage to attacks).

 Unusual Suspect wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
Wouldn't the Reaper be doing 8 Damage against an enemy Knight?

I stealth edited that in. Closer, but I still think twice the attacks at 5 damage is superior in most fronts (even at -1 damage to attacks).

Oh, definitely.

You're looking at...

8 swings
16/3 hits
32/9 wounds
160/54 or 80/27 unsaved, for about 15 damage

As opposed to...

4 swings
8/3 hits
16/9 wounds
80/54, or 40/27 unsaved, for about 12.

Cheers Kom

Trying to make a list just now and can’t decide what I want to do

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Unusual Suspect wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
Wouldn't the Reaper be doing 8 Damage against an enemy Knight?

I stealth edited that in. Closer, but I still think twice the attacks at 5 damage is superior in most fronts (even at -1 damage to attacks).

Oh, definitely.

You're looking at...

8 swings
16/3 hits
32/9 wounds
160/54 or 80/27 unsaved, for about 15 damage

As opposed to...

4 swings
8/3 hits
16/9 wounds
80/54, or 40/27 unsaved, for about 12.

And Titanic Feet, just for fun!

12 swing
24/3 hits
12/3 wounds
24/9 unsaved, for about 10 or 11 damage.

Pretty respectable, actually.

 Unusual Suspect wrote:
I've been considering starting Knights.

In particular, I've been considering a pair of Knights (possibly a third) with perhaps 6 Armigers total (2 of each type).

Having skimmed several guides, there's one combination that I hadn't seen discussed much (or at least, that I could find - I doubt I'm the first) which I was considering for my primary Warlord.

House Krast Cerastus Knight-Castigator with The Headsman's Mark. With a 16 shot Avenger cannon equivalent, you're getting plenty of bang for your buck for each +1 or +2 D you add, and its Tempest Warblade seems like it benefits extremely well from the same, as it has the Strength needed to wound almost anything (even Knights) on 3+ or better, the AP to get through most armor, and up to 5 flat D per hit... and you get twice the number of attacks.

8 S14 -3 5D attacks (rerolling 1's if you charged) against an enemy knight seems like it'd be respectable output for such a versatile build - Reaper Chainswords would be 4 8D attacks but otherwise the same, which seems to strongly favor the Tempest Warblade. Gauntlets still hit harder, I'm sure, but the Warblade's consistency through quantity seems like it helps lessen the gap considerably (and is also a great middle ground between stomps and Gauntlet attacks for elite-but-not-Titan enemy models).

All this on a foundation that's a little bit faster and has a few more wounds.

Lots of great warlord traits could apply here, seems like, since this Knight defaults to pretty good shooting AND melee - the T'au player in me leans towards a constant 4++ vs ranged attacks, or rerolling 1s to hit... But 10 Tempest Warblade Attacks a round is reaching Smash Captain levels of terrifying, and would be great combined with that attack-boosting Stratagem.

Am I completely off my rocker here? Again, total newb to Imperial Knights here, all I know is based on a few newbie guides.

Well, I found my next test run build....

Well spotted my good sir.

I've been running a headsman Castigator for a while, and it also stacks pretty well with first knight. The only drawback is the Casti really likes to be in CC, so Sanctuary is a super strong pick for it. For that reason I still prefer the mark on another knight I think.

Mine are painted as Taranis but without our darkest hour reroll/explode reroll - the shine of the household has warn off.

3CP for. 50% chance is too risky. Hope they review the Stratagem costs and it goes back down to 2.

Krast, and Raven or possibly Terryn looking better

 Unusual Suspect wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Unusual Suspect wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
Wouldn't the Reaper be doing 8 Damage against an enemy Knight?

I stealth edited that in. Closer, but I still think twice the attacks at 5 damage is superior in most fronts (even at -1 damage to attacks).

Oh, definitely.

You're looking at...

8 swings
16/3 hits
32/9 wounds
160/54 or 80/27 unsaved, for about 15 damage

As opposed to...

4 swings
8/3 hits
16/9 wounds
80/54, or 40/27 unsaved, for about 12.

And Titanic Feet, just for fun!

12 swing
24/3 hits
12/3 wounds
24/9 unsaved, for about 10 or 11 damage.

Pretty respectable, actually.

Erm... 24/9=8/3=2.67

Double that for d3 damage, and you get about 5-6 damage.

Unless the FW Knight has flat 3 damage feet or something, in which case, that's still off, because it'd be 8.

I'm looking to update my armies for a post soup world. My knights are one of the closer armies to 2000 poitns, but I'm a tad shy. I've got a pair of Helverins and 3 fully magnetized Questoris kits (only 2 Avenger/Gauntlet sets though) but feeling like I need something else to fill out the army. Any thoughts on what to add to the collection? I'm considering a pair of Warglaives which fits pretty well from what I can tell with a Crusader, 2 Heverins, 2 Warglaives, 2 Gallants. Feels a little light on ranged output though.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Unusual Suspect wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Unusual Suspect wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
Wouldn't the Reaper be doing 8 Damage against an enemy Knight?

I stealth edited that in. Closer, but I still think twice the attacks at 5 damage is superior in most fronts (even at -1 damage to attacks).

Oh, definitely.

You're looking at...

8 swings
16/3 hits
32/9 wounds
160/54 or 80/27 unsaved, for about 15 damage

As opposed to...

4 swings
8/3 hits
16/9 wounds
80/54, or 40/27 unsaved, for about 12.

And Titanic Feet, just for fun!

12 swing
24/3 hits
12/3 wounds
24/9 unsaved, for about 10 or 11 damage.

Pretty respectable, actually.

Erm... 24/9=8/3=2.67

Double that for d3 damage, and you get about 5-6 damage.

Unless the FW Knight has flat 3 damage feet or something, in which case, that's still off, because it'd be 8.

Titanic Feet are a weapon, just as much as the Castigator Bolt Cannon and the Tempest Warblade. Headsman's Mark makes no distinction between weapons, affecting them all equally.

So against Titans, they're d3+2 Damage. Against mere 10+ wound models, they're d3+1.

edited

 LunarSol wrote:
I'm looking to update my armies for a post soup world. My knights are one of the closer armies to 2000 poitns, but I'm a tad shy. I've got a pair of Helverins and 3 fully magnetized Questoris kits (only 2 Avenger/Gauntlet sets though) but feeling like I need something else to fill out the army. Any thoughts on what to add to the collection? I'm considering a pair of Warglaives which fits pretty well from what I can tell with a Crusader, 2 Heverins, 2 Warglaives, 2 Gallants. Feels a little light on ranged output though.

I think more Warglaives would be the way to go. I don't see a reason to run more than 3 Questoris in 9th edition. I think for pure Knights, one Helverin is mandatory to hold a backfield objective with a minimal opportunity cost, but I wouldn't take more than that.

The trick to Warglaives is they get a lot better the more you have, owing to Pack Tactics and Pack Hunters. I think the sweet spot is 4, where you can reliably get full benefit from Pack Tactics.

I think a good 2000pt pure Knight list looks like
3 Knights, ~1350
3 Warglaives ~465
1 Helverin ~170

Really I'd want to take 4 Warglaives and 3 Gallant/Preceptors with 1 Helverin, but you can't fit it into one Super Heavy Detachment, and I don't think one extra Warglaive is worth 3CP. Maybe you run 2 cheap Questoris and can squeeze in a Dominus.

Cool, appreciate the thoughts on the matter.

As Krast the below looks fun

Crusader headmans and first knight + Missile pod
Warden endless fury + Missile pod
Preceptor helm of dominus + Missile pod
3x warglaive
1x helverin

Play aggressive and really take advantage of the Krast melee buffs that we know and love

I’m tinkering with trying to get something out of the Castellan.

Taranis

Castellan
Crusader
Preceptor
Helverin
2x lightning lock moirax’s

I suspect the first list is the stronger but I just really miss my Castellan

I wanna try Castellan, 2x Warglaives, 2x Helverins, and then see what's left