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I believe bmsattler"s interpretation is correct. OoC triggers before you determine shots and explicitly allows rerolling any 1s that come up for determining number of shots on variable rate of fire weapons.

If it's all in phase, then yes, but I thought it was only when actually making shots.

Have been playing an armiger horde with admech and so far it’s been doing extremely well. I’m starting to think an custome forge world for the knights would be better then krast. I was thinking the exploding 6’s to hit in combat and the other one being leave combat and charge or shoot at a -1. I have 7 warglaves and 4 lightning lock moirax in the list

I've found the -1 AP shooting at targets within 12 inches custom trait really makes the Moirax shine. I run mine with either claw and Lightning Locks or dual LL. AP -1 on the rad cleanser on the claw makes a surprising difference, and since I'm up close the LL are often AP-3 as well.

I run that with the fall back and shoot at -1 and I've had success. I havent tried the exploding 6's in combat yet, so let me know how that works out for you.

I magnetized my armigers and have a total of 12 between Moirax and Helverin/Warglaive. I usually run an admech patrol for obsec and extra bodies. Ive tried various combinations of Vanguard, Hoplites, and Raiders but havent settled down on a combination I like yet.

I’ve also considered running this
Was also considering,

35 tech priest
25 x-101
80 x5 dogs
80 x5 dogs
64 x4 dogs

45 dkok horse
60 x4 command
60 x4 command
45 x5 scions
45 x5 scions
75 x5 ponies
75 x5 ponies

420 x3 warglaves
420 x3 warglaves
465 x3 moirax lightning locks

Lots of fast units to block as the knights pick their battles

I’m just starting knights but was thinking of Custodes as allies (shield captain plus a couple of storm shield squads for 400ish points). All Custodes have obsec but the major advantage as allies would be that where adding in skitarii or astra militarum gives your opponent good targets for their chaff clearing weapons (while their AT hits your knights), adding Custodes means that their chaff clearance is pretty ineffectual and they have to split their AT fire.

Is there any particular decent warlord trait to take when all you are taking is the smaller armigers ? I have tried to +2 to advance in charge but it does not come up in too many games. The extra CP and reroll is kind of nice. The only other thing that could be worth it it’s just the 4 up inv

IVIOOSE wrote:
Is there any particular decent warlord trait to take when all you are taking is the smaller armigers ? I have tried to +2 to advance in charge but it does not come up in too many games. The extra CP and reroll is kind of nice. The only other thing that could be worth it it’s just the 4 up inv

Are you taking any specific house or special armigers (Moirax?). If krast, then first knight on a double lightning lock moirax might rack up a few extra hits? (I don’t know that any will be too powerful due to the small size of the knights)

I think that Landstrider is the one that will benefit your Armigers the most. The rest are fairly situational.

7 armigers with meltas, and 3 moirax with lightning locks was going exploding 6’s in combat and reroll a hit in shooting and combat.

It's really worth looking at the -1 AP under 12 inches ability as well. Less for the Melta and much more for Lightning Locks. Honestly it would also be worth looking at Krast simply for full rerolls for melee hit rolls. Being able to put a Knight at full profile for a turn and healing a wound per turn are also nice.

Honestly if your playing a pure armiger knights list save the CP & consider the custom households.

If your playing Soup I would say there is probably even more reason to save the CP.

If your playing mixed questorus or carestus class and armiger class, I would prioritise the questorus & carestus for Warlord trait and relics.

Anyone finding the questoris loadouts just totally ineffective for 9th.

Gatling cannons for instance against T7 with -1 dmg just makes me want to put them in the bin lol

 Ideasweasel wrote:
Anyone finding the questoris loadouts just totally ineffective for 9th.

Gatling cannons for instance against T7 with -1 dmg just makes me want to put them in the bin lol

The Gattling is pure marine mincer though not for anti armour work.

If your finding yourself facing a lot of dreadnaughts a Styrix or Magera might be worth a look.

The seige claw being flat 8 damage is hilarious also the volkite is kind of a less swingy but weaker thermal cannon while the lighning cannon does a more anti gravis marine avenger.

The only questoris knight I've had success with in 9th is the Magaera (I dont own a Styrix but they look good too). The sweep attack and the lightning cannon being flat 3 damage are superb in my local (mostly Marines and Custodes) meta.

So in a vainglorious attempt at pure knights, I'm looking at the following list:

Castellan W/Cawl's Wrath and Cold Eradication
2x Helverin w/Heavy Stubbers
3x Warglaives w/ Meltaguns
4x Moirax w/Seige Claw+Rad Cleansers and Lightning Lock

I love talking about my list ideas and will of course answer any questions, but my question for you is households. The Castellan seems to hugely benefit from Order of Companions/House Raven. Taking the swinginess out of that much shooting is very important to me. However, Raven's Advance+Shoot Heavy Weapons doesn't really benefit the melee Armigers much. Is it worth three CP to split this into two Superheavy detachments and make the Warglaives+Moirax House Krast for full re-rolls to hit? Should I make everything Krast and accept that the Castellan won't be as effective in exchange for more reliable Armigers?

I know that there are other good options out there, Taranis for tougher bodies or custom house for +1 AP and re-roll a hit, but I'm not certain that they benefit me as much as the options above. I'll listen to your thoughts though!

Question to the Hive Mind

I have on of my "friends" (lets not open that door, he's a decent bloke but my god he annoys me at times) tell me Knights got access to ObSec in an FAQ recently.

Unless I've been completely out of the loop, this is not the case, right?

If this thing does exist, please correct me and point it out, as I would love to get my robots back on the table given theyve become the easiest to transport recently (pre-covid obv).

Many thanks.

I just double-checked the FAQ section to make sure, the Knights section hasn't been updated since May of last year and says nothing about ObSec. I'd ask him to show you exactly where it says that as it's vaguely possible it's under some mission update in the main rulebook or something.

You'd have everyone's rapt attention if you could get him to prove it, as it's the single biggest complaint we Knights players seem to have! But I strongly suspect he's full of it.

That was my logic too. I'll get him to try and point it out to me.

Knights do not have obsec in general but a freeblade or one particular upgrade (can't remember if its a warlord or relic gives you obsec)

The Banner of Marcharius Triumphant does indeed grant super-ObSec. Unfortunately it's Questor Imperialis specific. That and the Sally Forth strat (for Linebreaker on a group of three Warglaives) are making me look at Imperialis more closely. They are starting to play the game better than the more killy Mechanicus houses.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I know there have been a number of ideas for fixing Knights over the last few months, I just wanted to put out a couple I haven't seen discussed elsewhere for thoughts.

ObSec is pretty obvious. I'd also like to extend the range Knights can hold an Objective from 3" to 6". This would let them participate in the game without being tied entirely to objectives where they have a hard time using half of their power (Melee).

Some kind of durability buff. That could be a 2+ normal save vs shooting only, the increasingly-common -1 damage, or something else that I'm not thinking of right off the bat. They go down too easily right now.

Change the Thunderstomp strat from a piddly mortal wound option to an anti-charge -2 to charges reaction. It's very easy to deep-strike a killer unit next to a knight then wipe them out without much issue in melee. This wouldn't remove that possibility, it would simply give the Knight player a little agency in stopping it.

Let Knights take advantage of the Breachable terrain feat to move through buildings. It's a bit more of an edge case I'll admit, but who doesn't like the visual of a Knight crashing through a building to get at some heretics? Maybe make this one a strat too.

bmsattler wrote:
The Banner of Marcharius Triumphant does indeed grant super-ObSec. Unfortunately it's Questor Imperialis specific. That and the Sally Forth strat (for Linebreaker on a group of three Warglaives) are making me look at Imperialis more closely. They are starting to play the game better than the more killy Mechanicus houses.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I know there have been a number of ideas for fixing Knights over the last few months, I just wanted to put out a couple I haven't seen discussed elsewhere for thoughts.

ObSec is pretty obvious. I'd also like to extend the range Knights can hold an Objective from 3" to 6". This would let them participate in the game without being tied entirely to objectives where they have a hard time using half of their power (Melee).

Some kind of durability buff. That could be a 2+ normal save vs shooting only, the increasingly-common -1 damage, or something else that I'm not thinking of right off the bat. They go down too easily right now.

Change the Thunderstomp strat from a piddly mortal wound option to an anti-charge -2 to charges reaction. It's very easy to deep-strike a killer unit next to a knight then wipe them out without much issue in melee. This wouldn't remove that possibility, it would simply give the Knight player a little agency in stopping it.

Let Knights take advantage of the Breachable terrain feat to move through buildings. It's a bit more of an edge case I'll admit, but who doesn't like the visual of a Knight crashing through a building to get at some heretics? Maybe make this one a strat too.

I like all of this, a lot.

bmsattler wrote:
The Banner of Marcharius Triumphant does indeed grant super-ObSec. Unfortunately it's Questor Imperialis specific. That and the Sally Forth strat (for Linebreaker on a group of three Warglaives) are making me look at Imperialis more closely. They are starting to play the game better than the more killy Mechanicus houses.

The other issue with the Banner for obsec is it doesn't inherently make the knight more survivable which as you point out in the weaknesses of pure knights is they die very quickly.

I'm not sure the imperial vrs Mechnicus houses is quite as onesided with the vustome housholds from engine war.
Also the imperialis warlord traits are pretty good.
Though they really need to buff the oath for imperials +1 to advance or charge is pretty meh when your base move is 12-14 inches not to mention you need to use CP to double down on it and it doesn't stack with any other movement buffs. Jesus why couldn't it just be a flat +1 move or +2 to charges.

Hey Guys,

I had my first Knights game yesterday against Orcs. We played 1250P.

My List looked like this:



My Enemy played something like this:


The Mission had 6 objectives... (yeah...)
I deployed the crusader on the left objective and the helverins on the right.
My Gallant was set up in the Middel to do a lot of pressure.
He placed 2x 10 boys on the left and right objective, 10 boys in the middle supported by the boss and the doc? .
The trucks where Setup in space for cp.

Long story short. He had no models left at the end of turn 4, but we both got 64 points in the end.
My pros where endless fury. Shooting 14 shoots and hitting 18 in one round was just awesome!
My cons where that I didn’t know wich secondary to take! They are just not good for knights!

I took ENGAGE ON ALL FRONTS, GRIND THEM DOWN and cause I didn’t know what else to take ASSASSINATE.
Just grind them down was realy good for me.

I hope you guys can give me some tips.

Secondaries really suck for Knights. Many of the standard takes are infantry-only. The ones you took were pretty much the best options available to you. Even engage on all fronts is difficult due to the low number of models and the large bases we have.

Souping in things like Imperial Guard, AdMech, or even an Inquisitor or something can help with this, but pure Knights really need more options. I'm kind of hoping that the upcoming Maelstorm rules in White Dwarf can help a little, but that will be for casual games here and there, depends on luck, and may not deliver what I hope it will.

Hey, I've been gone for like 6 months. I came back and saw Warglaives had dropped from 155 to 135. Is that correct? When did that change?

Yes, Warglaives and Helverins each dropped 20 points a few month back ( I think it was the first of February).

It makes it much easier to throw a half-dozen or so in to get more bodies on the field.

That's pretty nuts, especially for allied lists. Shaving 60-100 points off a min-max Imperial Knights list lets you splurge on some extra guns. Shaving 60-100 points with an allied detachment gets you an extra squad. Sure, I'll just throw in 5 more Serberys Raiders.

StrikingScorpion82 has posted a review of the War Zone Charadon Book of Rust campaign supplement. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzcIXY6RIr4
A few highlights for me were...

Forge World Metalica includes a revised Knight of the Cog strategem: 1 CP to give a House Raven imperial knight model Canticles for the entire game.

Freeblade army: everyone has to be a Freeblade. Characters create two qualities and one dboon instead of the other way around, and you get +1 Leadership. This replaces the method detailed in Imperial Knights, so I don't think you can roll randomly to get more. They cannot take the same quality or boon as another model until all of one category has been taken.

Warlord trait: give a Freeblade character one of the House traditions as well.

Relic: a reaper chainsword with a sweep Str-User, -3 AP, D flat 2, 2x attack that sounds like it is required to be taken for the army?

Strategems: one character gets a 6 aura that lets other freeblade models ignore the burdens test (1 CP)
One knight within 12 of another knight can re-roll hit and wound rolls of 1 in either the shooting or fight phase (1 CP, 2 if big knight)
Deed of Legend- destroy a vehicle, character, or monster in any phase and gain another Quality. Can't be a Quality it already has, or another model has unless all other Qualities have already been selected. (1 CP) (Unsure as to whether once you select all the Qualities you could triple-up on a good one with this strategem)
Before battle you can give a model with a relic an additional relic that it could take (2 CP)

Qualities aren't the best, but you could game the system a little using Armigers. A double Lightning Lock Moirax wouldn't mind the reroll 1's to hit vs units with 10+ Models, leaving some of the better Qualities for a bigger knight. I would not use this army of renown for an Armiger-spam list though.

House Raven joins House Vulker in being a shooting army.

Warlord traits: 6s to hit auto-wound (ranged and melee)
4+ FNP against Mortals
+2 Wounds and counts as a Metalica model (good for tech-priest repairs)

Relics: Battle-cannon 72'', Assault 2d6, Str 8, -2 AP, D flat 3, Blast
Ranged attack vs vehicle/monster, improve AP by 1
Thermal Cannon 36'', Assault 1d6, Str 9, AP -5, D 1d6+2, Blast
Each time model is selected to shoot or fight, reroll 1 hit, wound, and damage roll

Stratagems: Knight that did not move (cannot charge this turn) shoots, reroll 1's to hit. Blast weapons reroll hits instead. (1 CP, 3 for big knights)
Shooting Phase- if model did not advance +1 Str for all ranged weapons (2 CP, 3 for big knights)
Movement Phase- one knight move is halved, each time model shoots weapon with random number of attacks, roll an extra die and drop the lowest (1 CP, 3 for big knights)
Fight phase- enemy attack is allocated vs character knight, auto 6 for a saving throw (2 CP)
Opponents movement phase- one knight (not Armiger class) counts engagement range as 3'' horizontal/5'' vertical (2 CP)
Start of opponent's shooting phase- select one non-Armiger knight within 3'' of two other House Raven models, all three get a 4++ vs shooting. Can only use once. (3 CP)
Fight Phase- enemy unit can only have models in engagement range fight, not those 1/2'' of 1/2'' (they can still attack other targets)
(1 CP)
your Charge Phase- non-Armiger Knight- until end of turn enemy units within 3'' are -1 to hit.
(1 CP)

For those that have seen the wording - on the freeblades with the qualities

In the freeblade lance

Can you

12, 13,14,15,16
Or do you need to

12,34,56 then have two that can be anything

Also how dies Canis rex interact I thing it optionally replaces his qualities and burdens because their not on his datasheet?