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Valiants are bad, but I'm sure it's satisfying when that harpoon connects. It's basically a ghetto Railgun! On a more serious note, would a major points drop make the Valiant worth taking? Like 50-60 points? That flamer is pretty nasty business (although D2 weapons are bad against some stuff they do work well against others) but it has to be up close and personal to use it. Ditto with the harpoon. With the short range of its guns, it should be cheaper than a Castellan, but would a lower cost be enough to save it?

The problem is if you lower the points to the point its worth taking it eclipses the other knights

I think when the codex drops we need buffs at both ends. Redo of the weapon profiles to make them more relevant and we also need to stop being killed by units trading up sometimes nearly 3x their worth.

The harpoon probably needs to ignore invulnerable saves or at least be more than a single shot. Maybe give us a cool melee profile with it. One issue with the dominus class that makes no sense is there are Acastas and Ceratus chassis that are bigger, taller etc that don’t have the same penalties to movement/melee they decided. That needs axed too.

Things can get a little salty when telemons are half the price of a knight and seem to be more tanky even with less wounds. We pay a penance for the obscuring rule and don’t get much in return. I’d love if the play testers tried some of the matches I’ve faced where you lose a knight T1 with GW obscuring terrain sometimes 2. The 2 way mirror idea is the worst thing about this edition. Even more than the wacky bodyguard rules

The Valiant toys are too cool to be let down with bad rules. But like zerg says. In that one game in 20 that the harpoon manages to actually hit something and not bounce off an invulnerable save it’s truly
Glorious

More than anything, I think that Knights need better ways to play the mission. The inability to score secondaries and the primary-tertiary they added to the new missions is crippling. Other stuff is needed to keep up with the power creep, but we can be as killy as Tau and if we can't score points it just doesn't matter.

Totally pure Imperial Knights has trouble picking a third secondary, that's true. However, you can bring a Rogue Trader and up to 30 Voidsmen in a Vanguard detachment without losing ObSec on the Armigers since they're all Agents of the Imperium. You can spend 3 CP and 180-300 points to get all the action infantry you could ever need. The only thing you can't do is use the Freeblade army of renown.

My army doesn't use that particular tech, but I can vouch that a reliable third secondary makes all the difference. I am also seriously considering dropping my aircraft for an Inquisitor to open my objective options even more.

If Imperial Knights get a big release, they should really get some huscarls, men-at-arms, planetary defense force, or drover conscripts. In the lore, Titans and Knights don't fight unsupported. Knight armies need more ways to engage with the game. It'd make Knights more fun to play against too, since it'd be less of a list-building-check for your anti-tank.

Agree something like that would be great. Avoiding the 2CP/3CP detachment costs for soup would go a long way. Especially since most of our strats are overcosted as well.

I was describing this to someone yesterday actually. We have a few 2 and 3CP strats that are 50% dice rolls to do nothing lol. Feels bad there.

Regarding secondaries it’s great that yield no ground is an auto pick but it’s in the same category as stranglehold - arguably one of the secondaries that we should be going for reliably anyway.

When you factor we only get access to 3 of the 5 secondary trees, as we cannot do shadow operation or warpcraft options it regularly means a game is lost before a dice has been rolled.

I wonder if emailing GW to highlight these problems is worth a punt. Because maybe they haven’t thought about this much. And I imagine our codex is so far away that there is time to save it

Yes but the comedy when a knight explodes is well worth the risk

You also have to add in the kill titans mission which is an auto 15 for out opponent's

U02dah4 wrote:
Yes but the comedy when a knight explodes is well worth the risk

You also have to add in the kill titans mission which is an auto 15 for out opponent's

Actually I've found that vs. Knights it's better to take Bring It Down, as that one gives you points for the Armigers as well as the big guys. Still an auto 15, but easier to score potentially.

Anyone got the ideal composition down that uses the big guys.

Running 10-14 armigers has been better for playing the mission but it feels sad to just have questoris and dominus class models on the shelf

Anyone still using a castellan?

I haven't had huge success with the Castellan in test games. I have mostly been playing against Thousand Suns and Custodes. The Castellan is great against vehicles out in the open and it does kill things when it can see them, but I have also failed to kill a 10-man unit of Tzangors with it. Right now my best idea is three Raven Magaera backed with a small patrol of MSU Metallica for screening and actions. This is a calculated gamble that Tau will mean fewer people are running really big T-8 vehicles as that is one of the Magaera's weaknesses, at least in shooting.

Magaera (Armor of Sainted Ion, Master of the Trials, Knight of Iron Cog)
Magaera (Banner Inviolate, Knight of Iron Cog)
Magaera (Landstrider, Knight of Iron Cog)

Skitarii Marshall
2x5 Rangers
6 Rangers
4 Servitors
5x Infiltrators
6x Sterylizors
3x Serberys Raiders

Interesting. I like some of the utility pieces you have there. Admech and Magaera points hikes does mean you get less bang for your buck.

The 5CP tax just to do it really is outrageous though.

Your warlord trait and relic choices surprised me though. Armour of the sainted ion and Landstrider are staples but the other 2 were curious choices. You find they work for you?

I should emphasize that they are theoretical. The Master of the Trial lets you ignore AP -1, which seems like a really good idea for the 2+ save Knight. The Banner Inviolate gives a 6" bubble of Raven Knights reroll 1's to hit in melee. As much as possible, the plan is to deathball one flank or the center with very fast-moving Knights that still shoot, get the benefits of Canticles for a. light cover, b. reroll a hit/wound roll, c. roll an extra d6 and drop the lowest for advance/charge. Both Raven and Metallica have some really nice utility/movement abilities, and the Magaera are very good into Custodes. Tau I have no answer to other than bum rush them and hope they can't kill all of me before I can force melee.

The 5 CP is absolutely worth it. You'd pay a CP for any of the Canticle effects individually, so getting them all is a steal. You'd also pay 2 CP for all the utility infantry.

If I get another Knight, it'll probably be a Castellan for variety's sake. Here's an idea I've been kicking around for a "Pure" Knight list, with Voidsmen as I mentioned earlier.
I'd like to take only 3x6 Voidsmen, but I can't make use of the last 70 points otherwise.

Looking at it now, I'm not sure why I wouldn't just stick with my AdMech. Something like:I lose ObSec on the Armigers, which does hurt, but I keep 1 ObSec and gain it on the infantry. I also have better backfield holders with the Dunecrawlers. Man is it CP tight though. I expect a lot of turn 1s to go Invocation of Machine Vengeance, Full Tilt the Gallant, Flanking Maneuver and Order of Companions the Castellan, pile everything into combat and hope for the best.

I’m not disagreeing with you per say but the problem is when we start with like 5 CP and have no regen to speak of and a load of 2CP and 3CP strats its really rough

Then you face custodes spamming god tier 1CP strats and seeming to have unlimited CP it feels sad

The only 2 CP strat I ever use is Full Tilt, and even then in less than half my games. I don't use any 3 CP strats (though, as I've said, Order of Companions on a Castellan is the best use of CP in the game).

The only ones I use consistently are Rotate Ion Shields and Machine Spirit Resurgent. I use Flanking Maneuver, Rolling Thunder, Pack Tactics, and Pack Hunters each in about half my games. Those are all 1 CP.

Shadow's Reach is really handy, but I don't actually have to use it; I just tell my opponent about it and it forces him to move awkwardly around its threat range. Crimson Wall and Horrors at Bay are also nice to have in your back pocket, but will rarely come up. Kolossi Eternal is also hypothetically a good deal, but I've never actually had a clean opportunity for it.

I think Freeblade Lances are good, and while you're encouraged to load up on Relics/Traits, they have 2 good strats. Strength from Exile is good on Gallants/Crusaders/Castellans that get most of their value in one phase. Brothers and Sisters in Burden can be clutch maybe once a game.

Beyond that, the few remaining decent strats are tied to bad units/factions, so aren't worth talking about. If anything, Knights are CP hungry for Command Re-rolls since it's so important to smoothe out swingy nature of such concentrated power on so few rolls.

When I’ve played freeblades and given my knights the free rerolls it’s been really handy

This is my latest list I’m trying out. And I elected for the reroll on the Magaera.


++ Super-Heavy Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Imperial Knights) [99 PL, 2,000pts, 12CP] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost

Household Choice: Questor Mechanicus
. House Raven

+ Lord of War +

Armiger Warglaives [21 PL, 420pts]
. Armiger Warglaive: Meltagun
. Armiger Warglaive: Meltagun
. Armiger Warglaive: Meltagun

Armiger Warglaives [21 PL, 420pts]
. Armiger Warglaive: Meltagun
. Armiger Warglaive: Meltagun
. Armiger Warglaive: Meltagun

Knight Moiraxes [16 PL, 330pts]
. Knight Moirax: 2x Lightning Lock
. Knight Moirax: 2x Lightning Lock

Knight Moiraxes [16 PL, 330pts]
. Knight Moirax: 2x Lightning Lock
. Knight Moirax: 2x Lightning Lock

Questoris Knight Magaera [25 PL, 500pts]: Character (Knight Lance), Heirloom (Raven): Spirit of Kolossi, Warlord, Warlord Trait: Landstrider
. Hekaton Siege Claw and Twin Rad-Cleanser

++ Total: [99 PL, 12CP, 2,000pts] ++

The list seems perfectly reasonable. JD Carter just came in 6th at Team Battle Brothers 40k using a Raven Castellan, Maegera, Warglaives and Moiraxes. That's quite good in the 2022 rules.

On that note, I didn't point out that Matthew Myburg pulled 9th at Cape Town Throw Down, which is a pretty large event, with a weird custom house list. It was Sanctified Armour and Hounds of War, built around one Crusader and a bunch of Warglaives. Sanctified Armour seems super niche and may have been a personal pick, since the other top lists weren't psychic heavy (there was one Grey Knights at 6th place). At the same tournament, Anton Smit came in 11th with Metalica and one kitted out Raven Crusader.

Oh good... More invuln ignoring.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/02/23/cook-up-your-space-marines-with-the-flick-of-a-switch-using-the-new-and-improved-fire-prism/

Maybe when we get our Codex we'll get special shields that get to ignore ignore invulns.

Instead of ignoring Invulnerable saves, they should have made a modifier to them. How much more balanced would even a -1 invulnerable Save be on anti tank weapons?

Cheers Darkhound.

Oh I’ll check that out on BCP I didn’t realise. Well done to him. I find that in some of the tournaments that have lighter terrain a castellan is beast mode - but with vehicles going into hiding in my area, and the prevalence of a sensible amount of terrain....he’s a less glamorous addition.

I was arguing with a friend the other day. Melee infantry has it so easy. 10x more attacks than us. Able to just ghost through terrain easy breezy with nothing we can often do about it. Ez bake Advance and charge, + to wound and able to spike units worth under 200 points to kill things that are 5-600.

Hopefully we get flying or teleporting knights with AP8 flat 32 damage stubbers at this rate

Anyone got any good news to report?

How goes the knight games?

I had 2 games with IK today, one versus Custodes, and second against Slaanesh. Both ended up in defeat.

The game against Slaanesh at least was interesting because it taught me the powerful synergies a Slaanesh list can get between the various HQ units. A Contorted Epitome covering Be'lakor and 2 otther demon princes with her skills is a powerful combo. It did save Be'Lakor from an angry Gallant about to kill it.

On the other hand the game against Custodes was an exercise in frustation. The amount of 2+ reroll attacks, plus the innate durability of Custodes made it not fun. Add the new codex tactics that make the game a convoluted mess... let me just say that if I had been playing with a stranger I would have quitted the game on account of suspected cheating. I'm sure my friend did not cheat, but when he started explaining that the general rule was X, but then the army had another rule that allowed exception Y because of the sub-faction, but then the captain could change sub-faction because exception Z... probably you all will see where this is going.

IK needs a new codex to keep up, on the other hand I'm afraid that 32 damage stubbers might not be a joke.

M.

I've had pretty good success against Custodes. The Magaera is awesome against them. None of my games have been a blowout, and I have won and lost games but they were usually close. The exception is when they are Shadow Wardens. The reroll wound rolls against Characters, fight last relic, and -1 attack in melee add up to a very difficult game.

Typically Custodes are running a lot of bikes with Salvo Launchers followed by some very hard-hitting melee characters covered by their bodyguards, with some infantry (sisters or Custodian Guard) holding their back field. Don't deploy on the front line against them, use their lack of range against them. Force them to spend a turn maneuvering and then use your speed to toe into the cover they are using to hide something you want to kill. I typically kill 6-7 bikes in the first turn of shooting, depending on dice results. That can blunt the return fire and from there it is a matter of surviving the counter-charge from the melee characters and remaining bikes. It will not be a close game, but it isn't a devastating loss either.

Nothing substantive, but they dropped hints that Imperial Knight news is coming out around Adepticon.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/03/21/you-are-cordially-invited-to-witness-the-ritual-of-becoming/

Lastest teaser for Adepticon seems to be a House Terryn shield.

M.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Codex is here! Let the broken combos begin!
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/03/24/knights-muster-in-two-stompy-new-codexes-revealed-at-adepticon/

M.

They forgot to make a new imperial knight model bless them

Quickly to the autocad computer. Let’s rustle up something shiny

House Raven is Chaos now? I never had a chance to field them :(

M.

Anyone use dakka anymore. It’s quieter in here than a Monday morning office meeting post Christmas party

Everyone dying or dead?

I suspect there isn't much to discuss since it will become outdated once the new codex releases. Speaking of which, maybe a new thread for the new codex? What should it be named?