Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Why are Land Raiders so rubbish?
We’re they ever good enough to be considered ‘nerfed’?

They were never good. The issue is how easy it is to tie them up. Just ONE Gargoyle and now you can't rush forward to deliver anything or shoot.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Why are Land Raiders so rubbish?
We’re they ever good enough to be considered ‘nerfed’?

They were never good. The issue is how easy it is to tie them up. Just ONE Gargoyle and now you can't rush forward to deliver anything or shoot.

They finally make vehicles somewhat survivable but remove tank-shock.

Except with the new charging rules in the faq you can easily bubble wrap a tank to stop these charges. I use a layered approach with my tanks.

3 predators, hq's, and 2 whirlwinds in the back/center of the board/ with best los for preds.

Mid range infantry (typically grey hunters with plasma)

On the edge is guardsman / scout sentinals.

If the enemy has a force that doesnt come towards me i outflank the grey hunters and use the guard as my bubble wrap. If they are coming at me (because nids do that / orks do that) then i am fine sitting back and letting them come to me.


With the excelsior i am going to change it up a bit. But it should still work. And with the faq changes to charges from flyers you dont have to worry about that lone gargoyle or assault marine jumping over your bubble wrap.

I am not saying my list is a "top teir meta killer" but it does work exceptionally well in my local meta. Enough so that a few people are changing their lists a bit to adapt to it.

Going to be running two, three man, swiftclaws. Leaders with power fists and the others with chain swords. WGBL behind them with Wulfen Stone.

And there'll also be a Gallant charging up somewhere near them so they don't get shot off the board turn one.

The list I'll be running has 10cp. Two are being used before the game begins to get me a second relic and to put my wulfen on the hunt.

So 8cp I think is pretty good for a mono. Gallant is probably going to eat one or two of them for ion shields. Three will likely go to the -1 to hit on the Priest. So that'd leave me three left by probably turn 3. Might use them before then though, the locals don't like my longfangs...and I keep getting a lonewolf lf with a lascannon because of it.

This is what I'm looking at running. Its basically my old midrange list updated for the new book. That list ran pretty well, but this one loses some of the shooting in favor of some new tricks.

Battalion

Arjac
Bjorn w/ lascannon

9x blood claws w/ WGBL - th/ss
5x GH w/ plasmagun
5x GH w/ plasmagun

5x Wulfen w/ 4 TH/SS

Rhino
Razor w/ TLAC
Razor w/ TLAC

Spearhead

Rune Priest on bike w/ runic armour, armour of russ, Wolf Spirits and Jaws. Warlord w/ Wulfkin saga

Long Fangs w/ 4 Lascannons
Long Fangs w/ 4 Heavy Bolters
Leviathan w/ storm cannon and claw

So I've been thinking about a SW list to use in smaller games (because that's what we normally play at my FLGS due to time and space constraints, we only have room for 2 permanent 4x4 tables) after my nearly pure CC army got crushed mercilessly in a small tournament a few weeks ago. Here goes:

Batallion:

2x Razorback with twin Assault Cannon

2x 6x Blood Claws
- 2x Wolf Guard Pack Leader with TH/SS

1x 5x Blood Claws
- Pack leader with PF

1x Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf
- TH/SS
- Wulfen Stone
- Saga of the Hunter
- WL

1x Rune Priest with Jump Pack
- Runic Axe
- Armor of Russ
- Psychic Hood
- Powers: Stormcaller and Fury of the Wolf Spirits

1x Stormfang Gunship
- Twin Lascannon
- Two Twin Heavy Bolters

Total is 1039 points. I tried to keep it within 1000 points but that didn't work unfortunately :( I can remove the TH/SS from the Wolf Guard pack leaders to get it under 1k but that'll make those squads lose a lot of punch unfortunately. For bigger games the list can be expanded by adding additional Blood Claws to the 5-man squad (these will be on outflank duty through Cunning of the Wolf, the 6-man squads will both be riding the Razorbacks), adding a 3rd Razorback (maybe with Lascannons instead of ACs) or maybe even putting an extra beatstick like Arjac in the Stormfang (it can transport Terminator models) or adding my Wulfen squad into the mix.

Battle plan is simple: Move everything forward, kill as many high priority targets in the first turn and try to protect the Razorbacks and Thunder(wolf)lord with the Rune Priests' Stormcaller power. Then hopefully hit CC in the second turn and go Ork in the fight phase. The Stormfang can react to deepstrikers from T2 onward, and the Razorbacks as well after the Blood Claws have disembarked. The focus will primarily be on killing as much of my opponents' army as possible and score VP through "kill this-and-this" objectives, I tried a more subtle approach of using troops primarily to cap objectives but found it not really working, so now I want to try the Orky way of just krumping everything

So what do you think? I'd like as much feedback as you want to give I'd especially like feedback about whether you guys think the Stormfang is any good in this army because that's the only model I haven't bought yet (I like the model well enough but it's not something I'd buy purely for modeling and painting purposes). Please keep in mind that this list will be used in a local meta that is almost exclusively about shooting, no special houserules or anything but the local players here have a real love for shooty Guard and Marine armies. I've been trying to use a more CC-oriented approach against them with my Wolves (because that's what I like and I think it's more fluffy than pure shooty Wolves) but haven't had much luck, so I've decided to increase the shooting effectiveness of my army. That's also the primary reason for adding the Stormfang, it's a very mobile storm of dakka that can take on a wide variety of units effectively anywhere on the board ranging from MEQ all the way to Land Raiders. Its main purpose will be to kill anything with an anti-tank weapon ASAP. The only thing it doesn't kill efficiently is GEQ but no SW unit can really do that, so yeah. I've also thought about adding Long Fangs but those seem a little fragile to me as well as requiring very careful deployment in order to snipe threats (you can quite easily hide that Manticore from a Long Fang squad but there's no hiding from a Stormfang).

Also another more general question: how do you guys play SW post-codex? I'm having trouble wrapping my head around it. SW have gotten a lot of stuff to use once they're in CC but they've hardly gained anything to actually get there. Sure, there's the Wulfen Stone and the Saga of the Hunter but I still find myself having a lot of trouble to reach CC before I'm shot off the board so I'm unable to give my opponents' army a well-deserved krumping for being cowards and hanging around the backline shooting stuff

Cheers and thanks!

edit: made some changes to the Blood Claw squads after I realized that 4 BC + Wolf Guard leader is illegal.

At 1000 pts i wouldnt invest in the stormfang, thats over a quarter of your points on one unit and it will probably get shot off the board if you dont get first turn easy, especially if you are in a shooty meta.

Your advantage is your only playing on 4×4 and if your going cc thats great.

Your list has potential, and your on the right path i think. Shooting bubble units then moving cc into the hole that they made is a good plan. But a lot of stuff seems to fall into the is it worth that much category. With wolves i find if your spending the points you need to make sure your getting your $$$ worth.

Yeah, advantage of supersonic units is deploying them out of range of heavy guns and then driving them to a great LZ, on 4x4 the former is nearly impossible and terrain & decent screening can make the latter extremely difficult

If i was going to build a list around 1000 pts knowing its a 4×4 table and your looking at close range this is what i would do while trying to keep with your army design.

Hq- your hq's are fine. Slight changes to them though, need to save points wherever we can.

Wolf lord - Thunderwolf, storm shield, thunder hammer, warlord, wulfen trait, wulfen stone : 154 pts
Rune priest- Armor of russ, runic staff, tempest wrath, fury of wolf spirits, jump pack : 122 pts

Troops - got to show the bloodclaws that love! But you dont want to move those Razorbacks too close, they are fire support. So in keeping with your theme you can do this

Bloodclaws - 9 caws, leader w/ power fist : 142 pts
Bloodclaws - 4 claws, leader w/ chain sword : 65 pts
Bloodclaws - 4 claws, leader w/ chain sword : 65 pts

Though personally i would go with grey hunters and play the 24" game. But claws can be devistating when they get in.

Transport -
Razorback : dual assault cannon, storm bolter : 116
Razorback : dual assault cannon, storm bolter : 116

Leaves you about 220 pts. There are many ways to go with the remaining points. Wulfen, thunderwolf calvery, or wolf guard on bikes being the 3 ones that jump out at me.

Wulfen would give you anti tank.
Thunderwolves would give you anti horde.

But i prefer the 5 man wolf guard on bikes.

Elite:

Wolf guard on bikes: 5 men, all w/ storm shields and storm bolters.

This gives you 40 shots at 12", which you will almost always be able to pull off thanks to their speed of 14". But thats not all, your getting t5 and 3++ saves with all that firepower. Run your wolf lord on thunderwolf with them and try to make sure there is always room for him to heroicly intervene and you have a smash squad able to take on hordes and deliver your lord to crush whatever big target he gets near.

Down side to this list is a distinct lack of anti tank. Keep that in mind with your local meta.

I just wanted to share this list/tactics I've been using lately. I've had incredible success with it so far so I figured it would be worth mentioning-
I've been running a space wolf battalion lead by a jump wolf lord with hammer+shield+wulfenstone, jump rune priest with psychic hood, runic axe and armor of russ, 2 grey hunter squads with bolters/chainsword, 2 intercessor squads, 2 wulfen squads with 2 axe/2 shield,
An airwing with 2 stormwolves with heavy Bolters, 1 stormhawk with lastalon and sky hammer,
And a catachan battalion of 2 company commanders with power fists, and 3 infantry squads with a plasma gun in each

I start with the characters and wulfen inside the stormwolves and the grey hunters on the ground. In my first turn I've disembarked the characters 3" in front, embarked the grey hunters, moved the flyers up 20 in a bubble and move up/advance the wolf lord and rune priest to be as close as possible. Getting a spell off with the rune priest has let me activate cloaked by the storm and have all the flyers be -2 to hit with re roll 1s from the wolf lord.
If you have the models, I really REAAALLY can't recommend wulfen and our flyers enough right now. The storm hawk with keen senses is just awesome.

Thanks for the suggestions everyone! You don't seem to recommend the Stormfang, primarily because it's vulnerable and expensive. I can understand your point about the Stormfang being relatively vulnerable on a 4x4 because one of it's biggest advantages is the ability to deploy it out of range of long-range antitank; the cost argument I disagree with however. Every SW Heavy Support/ anti-tank option costs an arm and a leg in points, that's just an unfortunate truth we have to live with as a Marine army. Still, I've been thinking about some changes, with the added benefit that the changes I'm proposing will make the entire army consists of models that I already own so it won't cost me any real-life points

Batallion:

2x Razorback with twin Assault Cannon

2x 6x Grey Hunters (start in Razorback)
- 1x GH with Plasma Gun in each squad
- 1x Wolf Guard Pack Leader with combi-plasma in each squad
- Everyone has chainswords

1x 6x Grey Hunters (squad can be expanded in bigger games, these guys are the outflankers)
- 1x GH with Meltagun
- 1x Wolf Guard pack leader with combi-melta.
- Everyone has chainswords

1x Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf
- TH/SS
- Wulfen Stone
- Saga of the Hunter
- WL

1x Rune Priest with Jump Pack
- Runic Axe
- Armor of Russ
- Psychic Hood
- Powers: Stormcaller and Fury of the Wolf Spirits (might also go for Tempests' Wrath for that -1 to hit to plasma users).

5x Wulfen
- 2x Axe
- 2x TH/SS
- 1x Leader with Frost Claws.

Comments: Changed the Bloodclaws to Grey Hunters with some AT/ TEQ punch. Squads in Razorbacks have plasma because they'll have easy access to the Wolf Lords reroll aura (at least until he charges off into melee), outflanking squad has melta because they will likely not have access to reroll aura's. Ranged troops makes some extra room for an additional CC units so that's where the Wulfen come in. Would've liked them to go wih 4x TH/SS with the new rules but I modeled two of them with Axes so that'll have to do. Still going to be >1000 points I'm afraid so I'll have to cut some options for 1k point games. Thoughts?

Lose the Melta Guns. Replace with Plasma

Ooh Smash Priest!
Give Wulfen stone to Rune Priest, keep him near the Wulfen, cast the Wolf Spirits, bash your enemy into the ground then use the fight twice stratagem to do it again.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Ooh Smash Priest!
Give Wulfen stone to Rune Priest, keep him near the Wulfen, cast the Wolf Spirits, bash your enemy into the ground then use the fight twice stratagem to do it again.

The Wulfen buff for bonus number of attacks do not work when the guy charged. And for that smash Rune Priest, if he is still alive and enemy did not fall back their survivors from him after the turn that RP charged. The opponent is either doing something seriously wrong or had some really bad dice rolling.

By the way, 20 attacks sounds amazing, but it may not be that devastating unless what you face is the underdogs such as space marine infantry / bikers not taking a stormshield or have a hidden powerfist as well as Necrons warriors / Immortals.

Taking the fight against Genestealers as example, that 20 attacks on the charge by RP is only going to kill about 8 to 9 of them. Granted, if there are no bloodclaws nearby to help him, the RP will not survive the rest 11 Genestealers which can still dish 4 attacks each. Another example would be striking a target with T7/8 Sv3+ a total of 8 runic axe attacks will result in around 3 wounds, the 12 additional Str5 AP-3 will result in around another 3 wounds, if it had a 5++ it is only 2 wounds. So that result in a total of 5 to 6 wounds.

Neophyte2012 wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Ooh Smash Priest!
Give Wulfen stone to Rune Priest, keep him near the Wulfen, cast the Wolf Spirits, bash your enemy into the ground then use the fight twice stratagem to do it again.

The Wulfen buff for bonus number of attacks do not work when the guy charged. And for that smash Rune Priest, if he is still alive and enemy did not fall back their survivors from him after the turn that RP charged. The opponent is either doing something seriously wrong or had some really bad dice rolling.

By the way, 20 attacks sounds amazing, but it may not be that devastating unless what you face is the underdogs such as space marine infantry / bikers not taking a stormshield or have a hidden powerfist as well as Necrons warriors / Immortals.

Taking the fight against Genestealers as example, that 20 attacks on the charge by RP is only going to kill about 8 to 9 of them. Granted, if there are no bloodclaws nearby to help him, the RP will not survive the rest 11 Genestealers which can still dish 4 attacks each. Another example would be striking a target with T7/8 Sv3+ a total of 8 runic axe attacks will result in around 3 wounds, the 12 additional Str5 AP-3 will result in around another 3 wounds, if it had a 5++ it is only 2 wounds. So that result in a total of 5 to 6 wounds.

I use my Wulfen for tank hunting, mr Priest is for clearing bubble wrap, finishing tougher bubble wrap after the Wulfen have had a good chew or putting the first few wounds on said tank after the Wulfen have removed the bubble wrap. If my Rune Priest is attacking a unit of Genestealers by his lonesome I’m beyond desperate.

Neophyte2012 wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Ooh Smash Priest!
Give Wulfen stone to Rune Priest, keep him near the Wulfen, cast the Wolf Spirits, bash your enemy into the ground then use the fight twice stratagem to do it again.

The Wulfen buff for bonus number of attacks do not work when the guy charged. And for that smash Rune Priest, if he is still alive and enemy did not fall back their survivors from him after the turn that RP charged. The opponent is either doing something seriously wrong or had some really bad dice rolling.

By the way, 20 attacks sounds amazing, but it may not be that devastating unless what you face is the underdogs such as space marine infantry / bikers not taking a stormshield or have a hidden powerfist as well as Necrons warriors / Immortals.

Taking the fight against Genestealers as example, that 20 attacks on the charge by RP is only going to kill about 8 to 9 of them. Granted, if there are no bloodclaws nearby to help him, the RP will not survive the rest 11 Genestealers which can still dish 4 attacks each. Another example would be striking a target with T7/8 Sv3+ a total of 8 runic axe attacks will result in around 3 wounds, the 12 additional Str5 AP-3 will result in around another 3 wounds, if it had a 5++ it is only 2 wounds. So that result in a total of 5 to 6 wounds.

That is not entirely accurate. It only doesn't work if he charged while in range of the ability. Which is 6 or 12". Not too hard to stay out of if the RP has a jump pack and Wulfen are quick, so just position them correctly and when piling it, move in closer to get the buffs.

Don't forget that the RP, as a character, can spend CP to attack again when dead. So either way he will smash something 20 to 40 times with all the buffs going off.

I was reading something about making the RP the Warlord and giving him Beastslayer. You roll up to a big target, say a DP or even Morty and smash them in the face with 10 to a potential 40 attacks and you will end up doing some damage to something. Especially with the +1 to wound on monsters.

Wulfen stone doesnt stack with curse of the wulfen (kill), so the stone works EXACTLY like the wulfen aura, just with a 3” range.

So only take a wulfen stone if you dont plan on wulfen being nearby.

Northern85Star wrote:
Wulfen stone doesnt stack with curse of the wulfen (kill), so the stone works EXACTLY like the wulfen aura, just with a 3” range.

So only take a wulfen stone if you dont plan on wulfen being nearby.

Crap, I’ve got apologies to make now.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

Northern85Star wrote:
Wulfen stone doesnt stack with curse of the wulfen (kill), so the stone works EXACTLY like the wulfen aura, just with a 3” range.

So only take a wulfen stone if you dont plan on wulfen being nearby.

Crap, I’ve got apologies to make now.

The warlord trait does stack though if the WL unlocks the Saga! Which is pretty cool!

I'm playing in a team tournament nov 3 and I'm trying to get some tactics in order. I'm anticipating hordes of orcs since it will be hot off the heels of the codex drop. I plan on using to Rune priests as my HQ . The first priest will be the warlord with saga of the wolfkin, armor of Russ, and freki/Geri spell. The other priest will have the wulfen stone and will be close support for the warlord. This will give the warlord 11 attacks which I intend to attack twice giving him 22 attacks and 33 if he dies and I use that strat and 33 if he dies and I use the other strat. My question is if I consolidate out of combat with the unit I kill into another do I then designate the new unit with the armor . So I'm asking is it possible for two different units to have been affected by the armor in the same turn.

TheunlikelyGamer wrote:
I'm playing in a team tournament nov 3 and I'm trying to get some tactics in order. I'm anticipating hordes of orcs since it will be hot off the heels of the codex drop. I plan on using to Rune priests as my HQ . The first priest will be the warlord with saga of the wolfkin, armor of Russ, and freki/Geri spell. The other priest will have the wulfen stone and will be close support for the warlord. This will give the warlord 11 attacks which I intend to attack twice giving him 22 attacks and 33 if he dies and I use that strat and 33 if he dies and I use the other strat. My question is if I consolidate out of combat with the unit I kill into another do I then designate the new unit with the armor . So I'm asking is it possible for two different units to have been affected by the armor in the same turn.

Have you considered reading your codex?
Armor of Russ is very clear when it applies.

And getting to attack 3 times is extremely rare and will basically never happen, again for reasons detailed if you read the relevant stratagems in the codex.

I didn't have the codex with me when I posted this. Thanks for the sarcastic response. I'll look it up.

Its 22 attacks pretty much all the time! you survive end phase attack again = 22.

die pay cp attack again = 22!

Only time you might ever get triple is if you charged a bunch a of deathguard stuff, one of which is a daemon prince with suppurating plate.
You attack twice and 2nd time you attack prince he blocks and kills you with the mw reflection ability, then you could activate again.

ArmchairArbiter wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

Northern85Star wrote:
Wulfen stone doesnt stack with curse of the wulfen (kill), so the stone works EXACTLY like the wulfen aura, just with a 3” range.

So only take a wulfen stone if you dont plan on wulfen being nearby.

Crap, I’ve got apologies to make now.

The warlord trait does stack though if the WL unlocks the Saga! Which is pretty cool!

Yeah, Sagas are brilliant when they go off, except Saga of the Bear. You’d think if you have to activate it you should get +1 to existing feel no pain saves so it can stack or a 5+ Or even a re-rollable 6+ rather than just a crappy 6+.
Nobody else has to activate their warlord trait so why is that one so...plain?

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

ArmchairArbiter wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

Northern85Star wrote:
Wulfen stone doesnt stack with curse of the wulfen (kill), so the stone works EXACTLY like the wulfen aura, just with a 3” range.

So only take a wulfen stone if you dont plan on wulfen being nearby.

Crap, I’ve got apologies to make now.

The warlord trait does stack though if the WL unlocks the Saga! Which is pretty cool!

Yeah, Sagas are brilliant when they go off, except Saga of the Bear. You’d think if you have to activate it you should get +1 to existing feel no pain saves so it can stack or a 5+ Or even a re-rollable 6+ rather than just a crappy 6+.
Nobody else has to activate their warlord trait so why is that one so...plain?

most warlord traits don't have the option of becoming a bubble. I see what they're going for with this, and I suspect we'll see other codices follow suit after this.

Here is a quick stab at a 1k point list for local friendly-competitive play. Based on the list someone posted above, and some of the general tips from this thread. Looking for tweaks and playstyle advice.

Battalion Detachment:

Hq:

Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf (140pts)
-Frost Sword
-SS
- Saga of the Hunter
-WL

Rune Pries (131pts)
-Jump Pack
-Psychic Hood
-Runic Axe
-Storm Bolter
-Wulfen Stone
-Fury of the Wolf Spirits
-Storm Caller

Troops:

6 Man GH Squad (78 pts)
-5x Chainsword
-GHPL Chainsword + boltgun

2x6 Man GH Squad (182 pts)
-5x Chainsword
-GHPL Chainsword + boltgun
-Plasma Gun

Elites:

Wulfen (260pts)
-2x Great Frost Axe
-2x TH/SS
-WPL w/Twin Frost Claws

Dedicated Transport:

Razorback (122pts)
-Storm Bolter
-Twin Lascannon

Razorback (116 pts)
-Storm Bolter
-Twin Assault Cannon

TOTAL POINTS: 1000

Your wulfen would be 231 pts instrad of 260. Might be able to get a cyberwolf or two.

Your list lacks heavy hitters though. IK is ging to demolish you.

Northern85Star wrote:
Your wulfen would be 231 pts instrad of 260. Might be able to get a cyberwolf or two.

Your list lacks heavy hitters though. IK is ging to demolish you.

Presumably his local player base doesn't include any donkey-caves who'd take a fething Imperial Knight to a 1k game

BrianDavion wrote:

Northern85Star wrote:
Your wulfen would be 231 pts instrad of 260. Might be able to get a cyberwolf or two.

Your list lacks heavy hitters though. IK is ging to demolish you.

Presumably his local player base doesn't include any donkey-caves who'd take a fething Imperial Knight to a 1k game

Some potential swaps:

Change out the wolf lord on the mount for one on a jump pack with TH/SS. Change out the las razorback for a rhino. Remove the Wulfen. Add a 5 man LF squad with 3xlas and 1x heavy bolter for the ablative wound. Add a squad of TWC all with shields and the leader with a frost sword.

Put the no plas GH squad in the rhino and rush it up the board, the enemey will likely split fire between the TWC and LF’s. Use the other two GH squads to take objectives and use the razorback as needed. The two HQ’s can hop around on their packs as needed.

Northern85Star wrote:
Your wulfen would be 231 pts instrad of 260. Might be able to get a cyberwolf or two.

Your list lacks heavy hitters though. IK is ging to demolish you.

Well, a properly equipped Wulfen squad krumps an IK pretty hard should they manage to get in CC. But yeah, rather unlikely that people will bring an Questoris or Dominus class IK to an 1k game (at least outside of a tournament setting). Armiger Helverins you'll likely need to be prepared for however.