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See, i was all in favor for how gw was going to do things this time. The quick faqs. The 2 big faqs a year. Chapter approved. Actually listing and fixing stuff.

Then the debacle of big faq2 and dark matter crystal just popped up. Something that was originally able to be done (dmc + warp time) that big faq 1 fixed (using dmc is like using warp gate, it makes the units count as reinforcements and moving for heavy weapons and a seperate answer saying you cant warptime units that come into the game as reinforcements on the turn they come in in such a way) and then big faq 2 modified the answer by just saying yes to the main question (do they count as moving for heavy weapons) and compeltly removed the reference to reinforcements so you can again dark matter crystal then warp time.

But it only became common knowledge that this changed again, it was way to easy to miss because it was already answered in the first faq, they didnt magenta it for being a new ruling, they just changed the answer.

I really dont like having to go through each faq to verify that an answer didn't get changed like that. Its silly. It wasnt needed. But there you have it.....

Rant over.


As for are 3 preds worth it? Omg yes. I run 3 normally with 2 whirlwinds and a wgbl/wolf lord/rune priest/ longfang squad as my castle. 2 preds get auto cannons / lascannons, 3rd is just autocannon. That castle is a huge pain to deal with thanks to all the rerolls plus getting stormcaster off and the -1 to hit.

Good, i have already ordered the bits i need for the chap dread!

Ilgoth wrote:
We will see. Personally would love to see terminators becoming a viable option.

It is a bit off-topic, but do you guys think we will see 8th edition lasting longer given they have started to sell these Chapter Approved books? Because I think if we get new edition in 2019-2020, then these books are pretty much just another way to milk bit of money... I just personally dislike them putting balance updates behind paywall.

If it was -only- balance updates then I would get it. A lot of the balance stuff will be so well known, along with the points updates, you probably wouldn't need to buy it. I like CA because it'll be an evolving concept that is a better version of the expansions from stuff like 7th. We got a whole host of new missions last time, I expect some more this time maybe? The Sisters of Battle beta codex will be neat. It has the potential to be jam-packed with goodies for everyone.

I understand your point/concern though.

Azuza001 wrote:

Spoiler:

See, i was all in favor for how gw was going to do things this time. The quick faqs. The 2 big faqs a year. Chapter approved. Actually listing and fixing stuff.

Then the debacle of big faq2 and dark matter crystal just popped up. Something that was originally able to be done (dmc + warp time) that big faq 1 fixed (using dmc is like using warp gate, it makes the units count as reinforcements and moving for heavy weapons and a seperate answer saying you cant warptime units that come into the game as reinforcements on the turn they come in in such a way) and then big faq 2 modified the answer by just saying yes to the main question (do they count as moving for heavy weapons) and compeltly removed the reference to reinforcements so you can again dark matter crystal then warp time.

But it only became common knowledge that this changed again, it was way to easy to miss because it was already answered in the first faq, they didnt magenta it for being a new ruling, they just changed the answer.

I really dont like having to go through each faq to verify that an answer didn't get changed like that. Its silly. It wasnt needed. But there you have it.....

Rant over.

As for are 3 preds worth it? Omg yes. I run 3 normally with 2 whirlwinds and a wgbl/wolf lord/rune priest/ longfang squad as my castle. 2 preds get auto cannons / lascannons, 3rd is just autocannon. That castle is a huge pain to deal with thanks to all the rerolls plus getting stormcaster off and the -1 to hit.

That's a huge points sink. What is the rest of your army? Are the whirlwinds the anti-infantry ones?

Whirlwinds are ste 7 ap-1 2d ones.

Rest of the army is 25-30 grey hunters in 3 squada, all with plasma, with a wolf lord. All outflank for a side assault.

I give up points / objectives turn 1, its a given, to get my opponent to spread out. I then focus on an area to clear out and make room for my grey hunters turn 2 to outflank in and do their jobs overcharging and blasting.

I have played this army in 5 games, only lost once. It is expensive to run this way but super effective. Only list i lost to was an ad mech that ran 20 of those damn gattling robots and he got first turn. Yeah.....

Azuza001 wrote:
Whirlwinds are ste 7 ap-1 2d ones.

Rest of the army is 25-30 grey hunters in 3 squada, all with plasma, with a wolf lord. All outflank for a side assault.

I give up points / objectives turn 1, its a given, to get my opponent to spread out. I then focus on an area to clear out and make room for my grey hunters turn 2 to outflank in and do their jobs overcharging and blasting.

I have played this army in 5 games, only lost once. It is expensive to run this way but super effective. Only list i lost to was an ad mech that ran 20 of those damn gattling robots and he got first turn. Yeah.....

Looks like you haven't run into those tough army yet. i.e. Eldar who can easily destroy mutiple of your tanks turn 1, Harlequins and Kraken Genestealers that can fly over the board in supersonic speed and charge you turn 1 from 24+ inches away and your tanks are silenced for the whole game. Stack -1 to hit Aeldrai make your pittiful number of shot that was supposed to be accurate hit worse than orks.

I have not played eldar yet but i have faced kraken tyranids. Game was an epic slugfest. I lost my castle in that game by turn 4 (all tanks and whirlwinds destroyed) but i won the game thanks to outflank. The short of it went he charged up, i denyed onslaught so his hormagaunts couldnt charge in, he hit 1 10 man squad of grey hunters with genestealers (only outflanked 2 squads and krom that game, used 3rd squad as buffer / screen) and then i unloaded on his genestealers/ gaunts. Turn 2 he got his carnifexes into range, but then i outflanked in the exact opposite corner and took 2 objectives from his back line (he was using rippers to hold them). He had to turn around half his army to deal with the marines.

End of game i tabled him and had 4 grey hunters and krom left. Krom actually finished off old one eye in cc that game, he is always worth the extra few points in my book over a normal wolf lord.

Keen senses - cough up one command point per unit you intend on shooting with and ignore all the Aeldarai modifier shenanigans, try not to be too smug about it.

Eldar and Harlequins are pretty much a case of first turn wins. They’re glass canons, if you get first turn it’s pretty easy to lay waste to them in much the same way they would to anyone else.

I have 2000 points tournament coming up in January, gonna be my first one in 8th edition.

Which one brings in more juice as heavier shooting?

5x long fangs with 4 missile launchers
5x long fangs with 4 heavy bolters

OR

Stormfang Gunship

This is related to my 2000 points list I am figuring out for a tourney:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/766927.page

For the price of a Storm Fang you could probably grab two minimal squads of Long Fangs with four Missile Launchers each. Your tactics are the next thing - The gunship is on the field from turn one and mobile, evasive and harder to damage, it is a priority target but if it survives it can be used as transport. The Long Fangs can be put straight on deck or be put in reserves, can be moved but aren’t mobile, are more accurate when you aim at a single target because they re-roll ones and being two units means you can mitigate the mobility issue to some degree.

I find 2x long fangs to be more diverse, and the "safe option". Just afraid that my list (like most of them) end up being too infantry based.

If you don't take at least 4 vehicles you shouldn't take any at all.

I agree. Either go vehicle heavy or none. One tactic i did for fun at a tournament in my local meta that i didnt care if i won was 10 rhinos all with 5 man blood claw teams in them. Each blood claw team had a power fist. Then i took 3 wolf guard battle leaders with frost axes and jump packs and 2 wolf lords with relic blades and jump packs. I actually won 2 out of 3 games because the list was so stupid it worked. Nothing on the table of value to shoot anti infantry shots at until a tank pops and then my opponents had to kill 5 rhinos to slow the army down.

In this edition you have to run multiple threats or no good targets at all. Wolves can do both when you go all in.

Azuza001 wrote:
I agree. Either go vehicle heavy or none. One tactic i did for fun at a tournament in my local meta that i didnt care if i won was 10 rhinos all with 5 man blood claw teams in them. Each blood claw team had a power fist. Then i took 3 wolf guard battle leaders with frost axes and jump packs and 2 wolf lords with relic blades and jump packs. I actually won 2 out of 3 games because the list was so stupid it worked. Nothing on the table of value to shoot anti infantry shots at until a tank pops and then my opponents had to kill 5 rhinos to slow the army down.

In this edition you have to run multiple threats or no good targets at all. Wolves can do both when you go all in.

Well, I'm starting to think that transports are of paramount importance to SW anyway. We have 2 excellent troop choices, but both cannot really do work beyond 12" and Claws are only really worth their while in CC. Solution: cram everything you don't outlfank with in Rhino's and Razorbacks and race up the field. Use Razorbacks with Twin Assault Cannons to thin screens for your heavy-duty melee dudes.

If only drop pods were not so damn expensive. Every time i want to take one i know rhinos are just better. :( maybe chapter approved will fix it?

Azuza001 wrote:
If only drop pods were not so damn expensive. Every time i want to take one i know rhinos are just better. :( maybe chapter approved will fix it?

Chapter approved rumors/leaks has them at 65 Which is pretty nice, especially against smite-heavy armies or ones you can steal objectives from using them.

Looking for your opinion. Which do you think is better, a Razorback with twin assault cannons or a unit of 3 Aggressors. I keep going back and forth trying to decide.

Ragnar69 wrote:
If you don't take at least 4 vehicles you shouldn't take any at all.

I agree but also units like Wolf Guard Bikes and TWC help in mechanized lists since they also compete to soak the anti tank. The Gunship and 3 Razorbacks are always in my lists.

Just thought of something: Redemptor Dread with Macro Plasma Incinerator and Keen Senses. Not that it's meta-breaking but I think it's a nice little thing to help it move up the field.

yellowfever wrote:
Looking for your opinion. Which do you think is better, a Razorback with twin assault cannons or a unit of 3 Aggressors. I keep going back and forth trying to decide.

What do you want out of that unit? Their functions are completely different. The Razorback is an offensive transport/ medium fire support vehicle while Aggressors are meant to hold ground. You can use Aggressors offensively but that requires getting them up the field in a Repulsor first.

 cole1114 wrote:

Azuza001 wrote:
If only drop pods were not so damn expensive. Every time i want to take one i know rhinos are just better. :( maybe chapter approved will fix it?

Chapter approved rumors/leaks has them at 65 Which is pretty nice, especially against smite-heavy armies or ones you can steal objectives from using them.

Might be nice to stuff a plasma squad + a cheap Lord in them in that case.

Anyone tried a list build around the living storm stratagem? Looks like we have got enough offensive spells. 3 runepriests and a culexus (-2 on opponents deny rolls), 3 x smite, jaws of the workd wolf, murderous hurricane and living lightning.

Thoughts on this list?


Battalion Detachment
Wolf Lord /w Jump Pack, Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield
Rune Priest /w Jump Pack

6x Blood Claw /w Pack Leader, 2x Power Fist, Stormshield
6x Blood Claw /w Pack Leader, 2x Power Fist, Stormshield
6x Blood Claw /w Pack Leader, 2x Power Fist, Stormshield

5x Wulfen /w Hammers & Shields
3x Thunderwolf Cavalry /w Fist & Shield
5x Aggressors /w Boltstorm Gauntlets

3x Rhino


Spearhead Detachment
Bjorn the Fell Handed
Long Fangs /w Lascannonx4
Whirlwind
Whirlwind

10 CP total

I always like to see whirlwinds in lists. I dont like powerfists when thunder hammers are an option though, i would drop one of the fists from the thunderwolves and jump the other 2 up to hammers. The flat 3 dmg from 2 hammers will almost always be better than what you could get from 3 fists.

2 hammers from twc will be 5 attacks assuming you gave one to the leader. Thats going to be on average 3 to 4 hits, lets assume 4 for this math. Str 8 will mean wounding most things on 2's or 3's just like the power fist. Lets say your hitting something t7, like a dreadnought. So 4 hits, probably 3 wounds, 0 saved for 9 dmg.

Power fists would get you 7 attacks, still hitting on 3's. For sake of argument lets say you got lucky and got 6 hits. Wounding on 3's you get probably 4 wounds. No saves again for this situation, and doing 1d3 dmg you do on average 8 wounds.

But with the power fists you lose 1 guy and your losing damage output. Lose one of the thunder hammer team and its nothing, that 3rd wolf had a storm shield and a chainsword or something so it was just there to soak up a wound.

Thunder hammers are just better at the moment. They are definitely worth the extra points. If gw changed power fists cost and made them cheaper, or made thunder hammers more expensive (please don't do that gw) or even made power fists more reliable (flat d2 would make me happy, or 1d3 reroll results of 1 dmg) i would say they have a home, or at least a niche where we can make them work. But atm they dont do so well.

Unless your putting them on a unit with no access to thunder hammers, like the blood claw pack leaders. I am fine with them there.

I'm honestly tempted to put frost weapons - swords, maybe- on the TWC. They aren't vehicle killers, they're infantry killers. They escort Bjorn as well.

I always give Claws to the TWC, sometimes Frost Swords. That's because they come with 3 S5 AP-1 attacks granted by the wolves, and against an armored target they're just wasted. I prefer bringing Lascannons, Wolf Lords and Wulfen to deal with vehicles and monsters, TWC are better for the role of anti infantries. Which is also something that we really need since other than them we only have Wolf Guards and Blood Claws. Wulfen with Claws are terrible against infantries, they don't have enough attacks to clear a 30 man squad while they can annihilate a lot of armored stuff with their Hammers and Axes.

My 1500 points list, i hope it gets cheaper with chapter approved to fit another unit.

Battalion
HQ

wolf lord with jump pack (TH/SS, wulfenstone, saga of wolfkin)

Runepriest with jump pack (Runic stave, Armour of Russ, Furry of wolf spirits, smite, tempest wrath)

ELITES

5xwulfen (3xTH/SS,1xfrost axe, 1xleader/twin claws)

TROOPS

5xbloodclaws (1xpowerfist)

5xbloodclaws (1xpowerfist)

5xbloodclaws (1xpowerfist)

TRANSPORTS

1xRhino (1xstormbolter)
1xRazorback (stormbolter/assaultcannon)

HEAVY SUPPORT

5xlongfangs (4xlascannons)

5xhelblasters (5xplasma incinerators)

FLYERS

1xstormfang (twin las, 2xtwin heavy bolters, helfrost destruct.)

Bloodclaws enter the stormfang and the rhino, longfangs enter the razorback to avoid 1st turn shooting from opponent, helblasters and wulfen go on the hunt

I think it's a solid take at 1500.

Until this point I've been sold on idea of WG squad with storm shield + combi-plasma, combined with jump packs of course. Now Im rethinking if they should just drop combi-plasma and have storm bolters. But those saved points elsewhere.

If your running wg's with storm bolters and storm shields the ones on bike are better than with jump packs imo.

Though with jump packs if you get stuck into cc you can still jump out and shoot....

There is a thought.....

Azuza001 wrote:
If your running wg's with storm bolters and storm shields the ones on bike are better than with jump packs imo.

Though with jump packs if you get stuck into cc you can still jump out and shoot....

There is a thought.....

Christ I never even realised that. Your pro-bike comment sold me on jump packs.

@lonewolf81 looking at your list again, only thing that I wonder is power fist on those BC squads. Though I have no suggestion for other option.

Ilgoth wrote:

Azuza001 wrote:
If your running wg's with storm bolters and storm shields the ones on bike are better than with jump packs imo.

Though with jump packs if you get stuck into cc you can still jump out and shoot....

There is a thought.....

Christ I never even realised that. Your pro-bike comment sold me on jump packs.

@lonewolf81 looking at your list again, only thing that I wonder is power fist on those BC squads. Though I have no suggestion for other option.

Lol hell, my pro bike comment sold ME on a squad with jump packs and storm bolters, though i would probably run it as a squad of 10 with the leader having a thunder hammer that way if and when they do get charged they can continue to do damage in cc.

I know what i am doing after work when i get home.... bits box diving to make me some!

TWC are infantry killers, yes, but giving the packleader a thunderhammer means they are not vulnerable to monsters and vehicles. It is plain stupid going all out on anti-infantry on such an expensive unit, making them easily counterable.

Northern85Star wrote:
TWC are infantry killers, yes, but giving the packleader a thunderhammer means they are not vulnerable to monsters and vehicles. It is plain stupid going all out on anti-infantry on such an expensive unit, making them easily counterable.

I agree, personally i run all my twc with storm shields and chainswords except the leader who has a th and ss. Its just smart gaming practices.