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TWC lost their 2d strata too, but gained Pack Hunters, Bestial Nature, keen senses, and Saga of the Hunter gives them a buff too. Thane of the Retinue could be used to give the Sargent Frost weapons.

I'm honestly more sad that we seem to have lost the Wolf and the Lion, and the 'promote the last survivor' strategem. Those were awesome.

bmsattler wrote:
I'm honestly more sad that we seem to have lost the Wolf and the Lion, and the 'promote the last survivor' strategem. Those were awesome.

those have been moved into crusade rules which... honestly makes a lot of sense

Maybe but lone wolf was such an awesome strat. It shall be missed.

I'm going to tweak my TWC loadouts a bit, so what would you say is the best TAC loadout for them? I'm thinking Lightning Claw and SS for normal guys and Powerfist (or TH?) and SS for the leader.

For the TW Lord I'm thinking double Lightning Claws and an upgrade to Frost Weapons.

Thoughts?

 Weazel wrote:
I'm going to tweak my TWC loadouts a bit, so what would you say is the best TAC loadout for them? I'm thinking Lightning Claw and SS for normal guys and Powerfist (or TH?) and SS for the leader.

For the TW Lord I'm thinking double Lightning Claws and an upgrade to Frost Weapons.

Thoughts?

Full LC and SS for regular TWC squad (in my experience I mostly need them to clear 30 man blobs), and multidamage S5+ weapon for the Lord so either a frost sword, frost claws or relic Wyrmsplitter for him. Frost claws will probably be my go-to as well because +1A (Lord doesn't need the SS) and re-rolling wound is better than having higher S.

It depends. I would say a powerfist sounds good.

Supossebly there is a stratagem to give a relic to a common wolf guard captain. Depending on the wording I think we will see some number of double frost lightning claw. +2 attacks, S+1, re-roll wounds sounds good. 5+ with reroll is very close to 4+ vs T8, and better elsewhere. There could be other weapons as well. Although this sounds like something terninators would like as well. I might have missunderstood the stratagem though.

But outside of that powerfist and claws with shields sounds good. If you have a big enough unit you can drop claw on one or two to get cheaper chainswords. They also have the ekstra attack, Ap1 and are free.


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Oh man. I am psyked for this new codex!

We have tons of ways to force the opponent to fight last. Armour of russ, whirldwind with stratagem and justicar are all good to get some CC action!

Are you guys taking a smash captain?
I'm thinking Wolf Lord on TWC, TH/SS, Re-roll charges warlord trait, Saga of the Hunter, Pelt of the Balewolf

I'm split between the Hunter and Bear, and Balewolf is to good to pass up.


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Then again Dual lightning claws + frost weapon + Beastslayer + Wolfkin is crazy against monsters and Vehicles

 Jimbobbyish wrote:
Are you guys taking a smash captain?
I'm thinking Wolf Lord on TWC, TH/SS, Re-roll charges warlord trait, Saga of the Hunter, Pelt of the Balewolf

I'm split between the Hunter and Bear, and Balewolf is to good to pass up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Then again Dual lightning claws + frost weapon + Beastslayer + Wolfkin is crazy against monsters and Vehicles

I think it depends a bit.

It would seem to me the Pelf of the Balewolf is better on a cheap Wolf Guard Battle Leader on T5 (Bike? or Wolf) with a good weapon. If they are regular units then T5 -1 to damage means they only damage you on 6. But this is not true when you meet S8, so you can keep away from that.

A fighty lord in my eyes would benefit a whole lott from relic frost claws or the armour of russ. After you kill something and they charge your lord they will fight last with the armour of russ that will make him a beast. And the frost claws are full blenders on +2 attacks +1 S and re-rolling wound.

So what's the point of Wolf Guard keyword now that Arjac doesn't do anything and we lost Vicious Executioners stratagem? Seems to me that even Logan doesn't have any Wolf Guard interaction anymore... Wonder if there's something in the codex that makes use of it?

 Weazel wrote:
So what's the point of Wolf Guard keyword now that Arjac doesn't do anything and we lost Vicious Executioners stratagem? Seems to me that even Logan doesn't have any Wolf Guard interaction anymore... Wonder if there's something in the codex that makes use of it?

There is at least this in the crusade section. Perhaps elsewhere as well? "Show them how we Fight – As Wolf Guard models from your army destroy units, nearby Blood Claws recieve experience points

Also, if you have not seen here is a pretty good write up on most things in the new index.

https://spruesandbrews.com/2020/10/31/warhammer-40000-new-codex-supplement-space-wolves-review-40k-9th-edition/

some combos for HQ

Warrior Born + Armor of Russ = fight first no matter what
Resolve of the Bear + Pelt of the Balewolf = very tanky
The Imperium’s Sword + Hunter = near guaranteed charges very good on wolf lord on twc

I also had been thinking about a March of the Ancients, Bjorn, Techpriest, 2-3 Vendreads with axe/shield and murderfang. I don't have the book on me but would Aura of Majesty work with the master of the forge's dreadnought buff, and does Wisdom of the Ancients work with bjorn?


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With Bjorn as a warlord with aura of Majesty you can re-roll hits and wounds of 1s with 1 cp at 9"

I might be wrong, but I do not think you need Bjorn to be your warlord for that?

Yeah. Stacking 2 warlord traits in a hero looks very fun.

Also, if you have a Master Craftet Axe, get it a frost master craftet axe and have the imperiums sword you have S8 without the -1 to hit. But most characters who have Master Crafted Axe probably hits on 2+ with +1 to hit already?

 Niiai wrote:
I might be wrong, but I do not think you need Bjorn to be your warlord for that?

Yeah. Stacking 2 warlord traits in a hero looks very fun.

Also, if you have a Master Craftet Axe, get it a frost master craftet axe and have the imperiums sword you have S8 without the -1 to hit. But most characters who have Master Crafted Axe probably hits on 2+ with +1 to hit already?

Its so Bjorn has a 9" bubble, but i realised you could just give him a warlord trait with the stratagem without being a warlord

So, has anyone else noticed they didn't put a limit on the saga strat? So if your non warlord non vehicle chr performs multiple "deeds" they can stack multiple "sagas" on them? That seems..... broken?

Azuza001 wrote:
So, has anyone else noticed they didn't put a limit on the saga strat? So if your non warlord non vehicle chr performs multiple "deeds" they can stack multiple "sagas" on them? That seems..... broken?

Broken, but incredibly Space Wolfy

So Warrior Born, he always fights first, even when being charged or when intervening into a charging unit? And if the opponent has a "always fights first" ability then defender goes first?

If both have "always fights first" I think they get to swing simultaneously.

 Blackie wrote:
If both have "always fights first" I think they get to swing simultaneously.

Reference? But always fights first trumps charging, right?

I don't have any reference, just the English wording. Both have rules that allow them to fight first and none of them has a rule that explicitly says it prevales to the other one, that's all we have unless thare's some FAQ that I missed.

I guess fight first trumps charging because datasheet rules always have priority to general core rules.

No, no, no. They alternate between the 'fight first' models. The most common source of fight first is that you have charged.

I edited my awnser as I have not updated my warlord trait evaluation for 9th edition. My GSC patriarch never took that trait. But in 9th edition the player whos turn it isnt is the one who starts.

'Starting with your opponent, alternate selecting units to
fight with.
When a unit fights, it piles in, then it makes close combat
attacks, then it consolidates.
If one player has no more units left to fight with, their
opponent then fights with their remaining units, one at
a time.
Once all units have fought, progress to the Morale phase
(pg 23).
Units that made a charge move this turn fight before all
other units.'

So there are 2 batches. First one is units that aleays fights first. Second are units that have not fought. You alternate activation until all units who fight first have fought before moving on to the rest.

There is also a secret 3rd batch. Rules that do not allow the opponent to activate. The regular marine codex has 2 of these: Wirldwind Stratagem and Justicar. SW have 2 more in Armour of Russ and psykick powers.

 Niiai wrote:
No, no, no. They alternate between the 'fight first' models. The most common source of fight first is that you have charged.

I edited my awnser as I have not updated my warlord trait evaluation for 9th edition. My GSC patriarch never took that trait. But in 9th edition the player whos turn it is is the one who starts.

'Starting with your opponent, alternate selecting units to
fight with.
When a unit fights, it piles in, then it makes close combat
attacks, then it consolidates.
If one player has no more units left to fight with, their
opponent then fights with their remaining units, one at
a time.
Once all units have fought, progress to the Morale phase
(pg 23).
Units that made a charge move this turn fight before all
other units.'

So there are 2 batches. First one is units that aleays fights first. Second are units that have not fought. You alternate activation until all units who fight first have fought before moving on to the rest.

There is also a secret 3rd batch. Rules that do not allow the opponent to activate. The regular marine codex has 2 of these: Wirldwind Stratagem and Justicar. SW have 2 more in Armour of Russ and psykick powers.

Sorry, but the player who's turn it *isn't* activates first, so if it's your opponent's turn, and they have units who have charged, and you have a unit that benefits from another source of Fights First, then you alternate activation in the first pool, starting with one of *your* units that has Fights First.
Also the Judiciar, Armour of Russ and other similar abilities, don't allow units to activate until all other units have, so they effectively fight last, but they still do activate.

That is just what I was saying. Or atempting to say. You can read that from the context.

The points is moot however, as it is bering discussed here and is covered under the rare rules:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/793734.page#10980347

Main rulebook, pg 361: “Some rules allow a unit from your army to always fight first in the Fight phase, even if they didn't make a charge move this turn. If the enemy has units that have charged, or that have similar rules, then alternate selecting units to fight with from amongst these units, starting with the player whose turn is taking place.”

Yeah I found the rule. Seems Warrior Born is kinda situational warlord trait, no?

Speaking as someone who usually fights against Space wolves, I’ve had several games where it’s been the death of me. It’s a hard counter to melee glass cannons, such as Berzerkers, and synergises well with Counter Charge. Definitively worth including in a Crusade army roster, if nothing else.

How is it good against berderkers? If berserkers gets the charge they fight first and kill the warlord, no? And if the warlord charges he fights first anyway? Very rarly do fights go on for more then one turn in my expetience.

Perhaps the heroic invervention means you can clip someone and then fight in two turns.

I don't think I would take Saga of the Warrior Born, at least over other warlord traits.

Effectively, it forces your enemy to fight first with whatever they lined up against your warlord, giving you an opportunity to pay 2CP to interrupt somewhere else.

There are currently 3 new start collecting boxes for SM/SW. The blood angel one, the SW one and the new SM christmas one. Are any of them good? I do not like the SW one. The BA looks solid enough. But the chtistmas one has 10 rievers in it. Do we really neer rievers?

 Niiai wrote:
There are currently 3 new start collecting boxes for SM/SW. The blood angel one, the SW one and the new SM christmas one. Are any of them good? I do not like the SW one. The BA looks solid enough. But the chtistmas one has 10 rievers in it. Do we really neer rievers?

Short answer: No. Long answer: Hell no! Reivers are crap on a stick. They don't do anything any Marine chapter really needs, or rather there are other things that do what Reivers do far better than Reivers do it.