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 Tiberius501 wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:

 Mantle wrote:
Didn't they say they are new kits, not the full and final kits or either way? They could either be multipart or they could be monopose with multipart kits being released later like dark imperium

You might be right. I might be misrebembering what they said

The original reveal though showed a meltagun CSM. This dude said they're stuck with a plasma gun. So either this dude is trolling, or he's wrong about the plasma gun, or he's wrong about them being monopose.

It's a specific campaign box, it's possible that it gives a loadout that is specific to the box. Usually it would get a specific name to go with it, but I don't know.

Also in the original picture, the Lt has grav chute spines on his backpack, which weren't mentioned in his rules.

It's mentioned that he can deploy on the board abnormally, which is how Grav Chutes work.

And an apothecary in a scout squad? Why them specifically?

Geneseed is important. Makes sense that they'd have someone on hand to recover it if they fall--could also be a kind of combat search & rescue deal, Vanguard Squads go to recover the geneseed from fallen behind enemy lines.

And preventing a unit from shooting until last? That makes no sense and if it were to prevent overwatch, wouldn't it just say that the enemy unit can't shoot in overwatch?

We saw the wording now and it specifically calls out Overwatch until the end of the turn, so that's pretty handy. Maybe.

Also 2 possessed even though only one has featured in all the art and reveals and trailers?

We actually saw two, at least, in much of the art.

 Galas wrote:
I just don't understand that. Why don't they use all those new models to give the units more options?

You know the answer to that question already.

 Crimson wrote:
The incessant whining about the helmets is so tiresome. I really don't understand that how in this universe fuelled by ludicrousness and nonsense that is the hill so many people choose to die on?

Because in big works of fiction it's often the little details that don't make sense that break SOD.

 Togusa wrote:
Why does that bother you?

Because in big works of fiction it's often the little details that don't make sense that break SOD.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
In the grim darkness of the far future.... I wouldn’t worry about The minutiae

Because in big works of fiction it's often the little details that don't make sense that break SOD.

Hotrod wrote:
2 Greater possessed : squads of 1-2, can separate after deploying together. S5, T5, W5, A5, give +1S to all friendly <Mark of Chaos> <Legion> Daemon units within 6".

That'd be a shame if true. Just 1-2 of them, not a Primaris Greater Possessed unit?

Hotrod wrote:
1 Squad of Chaos Space Marines : 1 champion with axe, 4 with bolters, 3 with chainsword and bolt pistols, 1 with plasma gun, 1 with autocannon. No ability to switch out what's in there, so I assume they're monopose. The heavy bolter rumor picture might actually be for havocs? Not sure.

That makes me doubt this. I mean, yes, Marine minis these days are basically mono-pose (most GW minis are these days), but I find it weird that they'd make a 10-man squad with no special/heavy weapon options at all, and no champ options.

[EDIT]: Now I see the datasheet. *sigh* No model = no rule is a stronger force than the Chaos God themselves.

Hotrod wrote:
Obliterators : T5 now with 4 wounds. Fleshmetal guns are the same, but they now have Crushing Fists. S+1, AP-1, D3 damage. I assume there will be 3, since squad size is still 3.

Would be a terrible missed opportunity to not just make Mutilators into the same kit, but then again, 6 Ork buggy SKUs, so the dual kit thing seems to be going the way of the dinosaurs.

Hotrod wrote:
Instigator Bolt-Carbine

Cool name for a gun.

Hotrod wrote:
Occulus Bolt Carbine

Not a cool name for a gun.

Hotrod wrote:
Suppressor Squad : Squad of 3, can deep strike with the grav-chutes. 12" movement. They have Accelerator Autocannons, heavy 2, S7, AP-2, 2 damage. Also, when they kill a model in a unit, that unit can't shoot until the end of the turn (so I guess it cancels out overwatch?).

Worried me greatly that we have Primaris unit with exactly one gun option. Maybe these will be Ezy-2-Bild.

 Irbis wrote:
... two weapons we know exist in the box seeing ...

We don't know what box they belong to. We can presume they belong to Shadow Spear, but that's all we can do: Presume.

 Crimson wrote:

 Haighus wrote:

My initial thoughts are this will be the "preset" loadout for the specific unit of CSMs fighting alongside the Master of Possession in that specific engagement, but will only be one available build of a multipart kit.

Past boxsets have had this, usually with named squad leaders.

Hmm... I guess it is possible. Let's hope you're right.

I think that it possibly could be the case is that there's a sprue that won't be included ala the Armiger Warglaives(although we did find out it was the full kit...kinda/sorta) from Forgebane, which has some other components.

Will be interesting to learn if the inevitable separate kits for these Primaris units come with alternative weapons like Wave 1 had.

Guess that means the rumored Primaris rhino was just a pipe dream?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Hotrod wrote:
Obliterators : T5 now with 4 wounds. Fleshmetal guns are the same, but they now have Crushing Fists. S+1, AP-1, D3 damage. I assume there will be 3, since squad size is still 3.

Would be a terrible missed opportunity to not just make Mutilators into the same kit, but then again, 6 Ork buggy SKUs, so the dual kit thing seems to be going the way of the dinosaurs.

Given the last AoS model release had multiple dual kits I think making that call is premature to say the least.


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John D Law wrote:
Guess that means the rumored Primaris rhino was just a pipe dream?

It'll be an elephant instead.

 Galas wrote:
I'm pretty sure all the miniatures in this kit will be monopose and basically a pseudo starter set followed by multipart kits for the Chaos Marines and Primaris ones.

I could see the Chaos Tick remaining monopose or receiving a full kit like the Plague Drone.

Did they ever say that this was a battlebox, or just that everything inside is new sculpts? If it is basically a new starter set, that would explain both why the loadouts in the box are fixed, and why they dont match some of the pictures. The oddity of the 2 autocannon versions could be one in the starter and 1 in a multipart csm box. Greater possessed being 1 - 2 may not be their actual unit size, but just to fit the box, like the unit of 2 csm or 7 traitor guard in the blackstone fortress datasheets. Obliterators could be a multipart kit with mutilator options, with just one build in shadowspear. Or mutilators might just go away and be a fluff unit of obliterators who prefer melee.

They give primaris a unit that can deploy super close to the enemy, and ways to stop overwatch, yet no decent melee unit still?

I saw a couple of leaked datasheets and there was nothing particularly special. More interesting was one of the faded background images contained some sort of vehicle or terrain piece near some marines. I'm not convinced what it was or I'd take a stab at it.

At a glance at the box contents (if accurate) this is nothing huge for either side, but I'd say the Chaos upgrades are better than the marine ones. The marine options are "cool", but definitely not filling any gaps they had previously. I don't believe jumping autocannon fellas are going to be magic.

 Brother Xeones wrote:
I anyone else LOL'ing at the descriptions of Primaris Vanguard Marines from the Community article?

First, Vanguard Primaris Marines—not to be confused with "Vanguard Veterans" No, no, completely different! THESE marines are the Primar-est marines to ever lead from the tippity tip of "the tip of the spear" unlike others who lead or have lead before (scouts, vanguard, reivers, et al). THESE guys lead the charge while your opponent is still opening his carry case.

"Vanguard Space Marines are elite reconnaissance troops, trained to operate without support across the deadliest frontiers of the galaxy."

OK, Fair enough...

Ranging far ahead of their battle-brothers, they drop behind enemy lines, deep into hostile territory. Once in position, they launch a campaign of total devastation against the enemy. Every component of the opposing war machine is taken apart piece by piece – communications are severed, key commanders assassinated, supply caches demolished and morale drained away by unrelenting terror-strikes. When the enemy are all but beaten, the Vanguard Space Marines emerge from the shadows to deliver the killing strike.

So, um...where does the recon part come in?

I imagine Captain Acheran swings by Marneus Calgar's field office after Nemendghast:
Acheran: Heeeey Marnie!
Calgar: Oh hey man! I didn't hear you come in—always the sneaky one!
Acheran: Right, so you know that planet you asked us to investigate to see if the enemy was there?
Calgar: Yeah?
Acheran: They aren't. I mean, they WERE there, but just not any more cuz we recon'ed them to death.
Calgar:Thanks Archie. You always give the best intel. Keep up the good work!



Also Captain Acheran is "A modest and taciturn commander" They totally nailed his essence with the mini because he looks super-chill. I bet he shouts like that and gestures dramatically during most of his covert "recon" missions.
Don't get me wrong, I'm still looking forward to all of this, but you can't help but see the humor here...

Yep, I really like the models but everything else that comes with it is just....


Not much thought goes into it anymore, well not as much as before anyway, thats how it looks to me.

Well, I just leave it here.

 Elbows wrote:
I saw a couple of leaked datasheets and there was nothing particularly special. More interesting was one of the faded background images contained some sort of vehicle or terrain piece near some marines. I'm not convinced what it was or I'd take a stab at it.

That's the top of the Thermic Plasma Regulators kit https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Warhammer-40000-thermic-Plasma-Regulators-2017

I was massively sceptical about these leaks until the datasheet images were posted. But the model images at the bottom do seal the deal. GW did say that Shadow Spear would contain all new sculpts. No mention about non of them being push fit/easy build though. The thing is, thanks to the preview trailer and the rumour engine we know that there CSM with other weapons coming. So IMO that leaves two possible explanations. Either the datasheet is for a fixed Shadow Spear loadout and omits other options on the kit, or the Shadow Spear squad are easy builds with a "full" kit being released down the road.

Here's hoping that this leak forces GW's hand and they bring the full on reveal to today.

I REALLY hope this CSM dataslate is just for the box set and they're not overwriting the old CSM codex entry with such a.... mixed unit.

I think people are expecting a bit too much from the basic rules of models. Specialist detachments and stratagems will clearly buff these units, I expect the suppressors will get some kind of cool stratagem to help them move around and shoot more.
The eliminators sound like a useful unit too with -2 to hit they are going to be resilient if you sit them in cover and just pop shots off at characters they are a nice unit and I'll be using them.

Still excited to get this box set and I'm actually pleased the possesed aren't a big unit as I don't really want them for the iron warriors I'm planning.

Yeah, that Chaos datasheet makes it pretty clear the models in this set are pushfits. No options, fixed size, mixed weapon loadout.

I hope not either, they should allow for standardization or allowing you to have a mixed unit as a choice, but most won't cause there is no need to.

And yeah i lost my hope for them having a multipart kit this definately means its pushfit, which sucks for everyone involved here goes another six months before we get them out of those sprues. We are still waiting for them to give us options on intercessors, hellblasters, aggressors, and inceptors.... Helk we still don't have multipart kit for the primaris captains or their LTS.


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ListenToMeWarriors wrote:
Here's hoping that this leak forces GW's hand and they bring the full on reveal to today.

Probably not. I don't think they will. If they do good for us. Bad for them.

Yep, I really like the models but everything else that comes with it is just....


Not much thought goes into it anymore, well not as much as before anyway, thats how it looks to me.

The new lore seems rushed, and this stuff seems out of well.. stupidity. Don't they know space marines are the speartip in a formation? They never go in like in long lines their whole point is to destroy enemy leadership, supply, cripple morale, and strategic objectives.. it even says that in their codex.

They aren't looking at the lore are they just going crazy with this whole 'reimagining of space marines' which isn't really a reimagining its the same thing just a bigger model. They haven't developed anything 'new' for space marines. Want something new, give marines a walker or a vechile that is actually interesting and compelling as a plastic kit that doesn't look like gak or give marines their dedicated close combat units that emphasize the setting. So far we don't have any interesting lore with the primaris and I am not surprised, they aren't different, their lore has been subpar so far and there have only been three books on the primaris that are warrant any attention. Space Marine books and just books in general still use the same space marines.

They need to rethink their strategy for how they write their lore. If they want modern military tactics for marines, great that is a wonderful idea, but they are kind of aimless currently and abundantly obvious in each release that 'primaris are the best', in ever book they come off as pestilent children in adult setting. They don't act with the same fidelity and interest that other characters in the setting have and is woefully apparent in many of the books and campaign novels.

I more think these datasheets are more like the Deathstorm, Death Masque, or Stormclaw boxed sets from 7e. Those had datasheets that were incomplete.

I think this box can contain tabletop game, and datasheets in this book can be used only plaing primaris from box vs CSM from box. You know, like in "Know no fear" starter. Datasheet from its rules cut to display gear and abilities for tabletop playing.

But there is no thoughts when we get full datasheets in this case.

 Stormonu wrote:
Yeah, that Chaos datasheet makes it pretty clear the models in this set are pushfits. No options, fixed size, mixed weapon loadout.

Apart from the fact we’ve seen a CSM in the trailer with a Meltagun. It could just be a fixed load out used for the missions in the box.

The suppressor squad is all over the place : high mobility (why ? they don't seem to have jetpacks in the picture ?), fast attack with a high range heavy weapon, facilitate charge by removing overwatch, they have a smoke launcher like a tank ... I'm a little bit suprised. They're the first primaris unit with a weapon that has a range higher than 36 and they're fast attack ?
I think their future kit will have other load out option ? Who knows.

It will be interesting to see what gw shows off tomorrow or on Tuesday. The rumour engine pics we have seen make it clear that the chaos marines in the box set will not be the only releases. The data sheets we have seen and the rumour of a two week preorder very much make it look like we will get a easy to build style box set in the vein of Dark Imperium or Soul Wars, with more minis for both factions to follow later.

The most interesting thing for me is that the box set seem very heavily weighted in favour of the chaos side. If we count the greater possessed as hero style units we end up with chaos having the same number of infantry as primaris but also three Obliterators and a big vehicle.
We know that Hotrod only saw data sheets and not a full book or minis. Maybe there are some primaris data sheets missing.

WhiteDog wrote:
The suppressor squad is all over the place : high mobility (why ? they don't seem to have jetpacks in the picture ?), fast attack with a high range heavy weapon, facilitate charge by removing overwatch, they have a smoke launcher like a tank ... I'm a little bit suprised. They're the first primaris unit with a weapon that has a range higher than 36 and they're fast attack ?
I think their future kit will have other load out option ? Who knows.

That's my feeling, too. They must be in line for an assault option. Otherwise they're just a very confused unit. I think the only reason they're in FA is because Primaris are already overloaded in the Elites department and Hellblasters are an autotake in Heavy.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

 Nostromodamus wrote:
All this new gak that Marines keep getting must be making the Fabricator General of Mars itching for another schism. Every new release is blatant tech heresy.

I dunno, one of the biggest turn offs for me in 40K fluff is the whole "hurr durr technology scary, but we use it all the time actually, but hurr durr its scary!"

I wouldn't mind seeing that part of 40K go into the past and get replaced with something more akin to the world in AoS. Grimderp is a product of a different time, perhaps its time to let it rest?

Yes, absolutely, and while we're at it the Administratum is a ludicrous concept, the Imperium should operate like a well-oiled machine with competent bureaucrats. And the Ecclesiarchy is just silly, societies that operate based on fear and repression stagnate, so they should rework the Imperium's religion to be more like the Quakers. Not to mention how horribly bigoted the Imperium are towards genetic minorities, it's monstrous that the differently-limbed and multi-headed receive such discriminatory treatment and it makes no sense to limit the potential of a significant minority of your society out of superstition and phobic fear, Mutant Rights Now!

I know the "muh Rogue Trader, muh Oldhammer" lot object, but it's really time to face up to reality; 40K is "grimderp", and pretty much always has been. Even when it was "funny" it was "grimderp". Even when it was Wardian-heroic it was "grimderp". Even now it's being transformed into a saturday morning cartoon, it's still "grimderp". If you dislike "grimderp", you pretty much dislike 40K.

Well in real life the bigger a government gets the more bloated and inefficient it's beurocracy tends to be, societies run off repression do tend to stagnate and stagnation is the very core of what the Imperium is, and societies like that tend to be extremely discrimatory towards minorities even when those minorities don't pose a legitimate threat of Chaos/xeno corruption. So while there are countless unrealistic elements of the setting it would be difficult to pick put any that are more realistic than what you have there, but I am entirely unsure as to if that was the point...?

The point is that the idea "technology is scary" is somehow beyond the pale and "grimderp" is ridiculous given the broader context of the setting, which is full of illogical, extreme, over-the-top renditions of all sorts of things.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I more think these datasheets are more like the Deathstorm, Death Masque, or Stormclaw boxed sets from 7e. Those had datasheets that were incomplete.

yeah could be. I could also see the new box being more akin to dark imperium then the standard battle boxes, if only to ensure that people don't just buy the boxed sets and refuse to buy the basic stuff. partiuclarly as these ARE all new models.

Pretty model, though.

 insaniak wrote:





Pretty model, though.

I prefer to imagine him yelling "kaw-kaw kaw-kaw"

Dudeface wrote:

 insaniak wrote:





Pretty model, though.

I prefer to imagine him yelling "kaw-kaw kaw-kaw"

Teehee. "Lookuphere lookuphere lookuphere"

 Yodhrin wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

 Nostromodamus wrote:
All this new gak that Marines keep getting must be making the Fabricator General of Mars itching for another schism. Every new release is blatant tech heresy.

I dunno, one of the biggest turn offs for me in 40K fluff is the whole "hurr durr technology scary, but we use it all the time actually, but hurr durr its scary!"

I wouldn't mind seeing that part of 40K go into the past and get replaced with something more akin to the world in AoS. Grimderp is a product of a different time, perhaps its time to let it rest?

Yes, absolutely, and while we're at it the Administratum is a ludicrous concept, the Imperium should operate like a well-oiled machine with competent bureaucrats. And the Ecclesiarchy is just silly, societies that operate based on fear and repression stagnate, so they should rework the Imperium's religion to be more like the Quakers. Not to mention how horribly bigoted the Imperium are towards genetic minorities, it's monstrous that the differently-limbed and multi-headed receive such discriminatory treatment and it makes no sense to limit the potential of a significant minority of your society out of superstition and phobic fear, Mutant Rights Now!

I know the "muh Rogue Trader, muh Oldhammer" lot object, but it's really time to face up to reality; 40K is "grimderp", and pretty much always has been. Even when it was "funny" it was "grimderp". Even when it was Wardian-heroic it was "grimderp". Even now it's being transformed into a saturday morning cartoon, it's still "grimderp". If you dislike "grimderp", you pretty much dislike 40K.

Well in real life the bigger a government gets the more bloated and inefficient it's beurocracy tends to be, societies run off repression do tend to stagnate and stagnation is the very core of what the Imperium is, and societies like that tend to be extremely discrimatory towards minorities even when those minorities don't pose a legitimate threat of Chaos/xeno corruption. So while there are countless unrealistic elements of the setting it would be difficult to pick put any that are more realistic than what you have there, but I am entirely unsure as to if that was the point...?

The point is that the idea "technology is scary" is somehow beyond the pale and "grimderp" is ridiculous given the broader context of the setting, which is full of illogical, extreme, over-the-top renditions of all sorts of things.

I totally agree that it is, it just seems he cherry-picked the most realistic points possible out of a totally crazy setting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 insaniak wrote:

Spoiler:

Pretty model, though.

Exalted! Though I have to say his thigh gap is setting unrealistic beauty standards.

warp talons might be quite fun with the exalted possessed'd +1s

5 make em WE
deep strike in near him charge in you can't overwatch, 16 s5 -2 attacks re-rolling to wound. would VOTLW be the +1 after or before the re-roll to wound because that 5 (maybe 4) (edit: guess it does not matter just re-roll ye 3,2,1's) to wound knights with a re-roll goes a fair way. not totally terrible for 120pts .. taking what 5 wounds off a knight?

also s8 heldrake