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Rules question; Because I'm playing against Tau and it'll come up anyway on the day if I don't clarify beforehand.

Serbyrus Raiders have the eye of Serbyrus ability that allows them to ignore look out sir and "in addition, when resolving an attack made with a ranged weapon by a model in this unit, a wound roll of 6+ inflicts 1 mortal wound in addition to any other damage" now, savior protocols allows the Tau player to ignore a wound (single or multi damage) by on a roll of a 2+ take a MW on a drone.

How does that work for MW inflicted in addition? I'm sure I remember reading somewhere that they can only reallocate wounds from attacks so anything inflicted in addition they can't savior protocols?

Octovol wrote:
Rules question; Because I'm playing against Tau and it'll come up anyway on the day if I don't clarify beforehand.

Serbyrus Raiders have the eye of Serbyrus ability that allows them to ignore look out sir and "in addition, when resolving an attack made with a ranged weapon by a model in this unit, a wound roll of 6+ inflicts 1 mortal wound in addition to any other damage" now, savior protocols allows the Tau player to ignore a wound (single or multi damage) by on a roll of a 2+ take a MW on a drone.

How does that work for MW inflicted in addition? I'm sure I remember reading somewhere that they can only reallocate wounds from attacks so anything inflicted in addition they can't savior protocols?

‘When resolving an attack made against a <Sept>
Infantry or <Sept> Battlesuit unit whilst that unit
is within 3" of a friendly <Sept> Drones unit, if the
wound roll is successful, you can roll one D6; on a 2+
that Drones unit suffers 1 mortal wound and the attack
sequence ends.’

U02dah4 wrote:

Octovol wrote:
Rules question; Because I'm playing against Tau and it'll come up anyway on the day if I don't clarify beforehand.

Serbyrus Raiders have the eye of Serbyrus ability that allows them to ignore look out sir and "in addition, when resolving an attack made with a ranged weapon by a model in this unit, a wound roll of 6+ inflicts 1 mortal wound in addition to any other damage" now, savior protocols allows the Tau player to ignore a wound (single or multi damage) by on a roll of a 2+ take a MW on a drone.

How does that work for MW inflicted in addition? I'm sure I remember reading somewhere that they can only reallocate wounds from attacks so anything inflicted in addition they can't savior protocols?

‘When resolving an attack made against a <Sept>
Infantry or <Sept> Battlesuit unit whilst that unit
is within 3" of a friendly <Sept> Drones unit, if the
wound roll is successful, you can roll one D6; on a 2+
that Drones unit suffers 1 mortal wound and the attack
sequence ends.’

OK, I can read the rules. I'm after a bit of clarification. MW in addition aren't part of the attack sequence, they're allocated after the attack is resolved afaik. The same would be true of wrath of Mars etc. Can they SP MW that aren't part of the attack?

AFAIK, yes. SP works on all wounds generated as the result of an attack.

 Suzuteo wrote:
AFAIK, yes. SP works on all wounds generated as the result of an attack.

Ok.. So I roll a 6 to wound with a Raider, Tau players rolls a 2+ for SP; The attack and it's additional MW are negated and the Drone takes a single MW?

Or do they have to take each on a separate SP roll and have two drones nearby?

I believe the consensus is yes, as long as there is a wound roll. If there is no wound roll, you cannot use SP at all.

That said, the FAQ honestly seems to be in conflict with itself.

EDIT: And in case it is unclear, if you use Wrath of Mars, you have to slow roll all of the wound rolls. That or you decide in advance which rolls come "first." You can do this with a tray or something. The Assault Dice app is annoying because it scatters the dice into random positions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So what does everyone think about Assassins? The Culexus is particularly tempting, as we can pick the Abhor the Witch secondary. He's also extremely hard to kill even in the event that they don't actually have Psykers and want to run him as the "default" Assassin.

How are you guys finding facing Custodes? I had a tough match earlier and found the resistance buffs they are rocking are very strong.

I tried grav destroyers for the first time last game and my buddy happened to bring Custodes (he has several armies).

I found these, Fulgurites, and dakkabots particularly effective against Custodes, but overall it was a tough fight.

 Ideasweasel wrote:
How are you guys finding facing Custodes? I had a tough match earlier and found the resistance buffs they are rocking are very strong.

Dakkabots wreck Custodes. Mortal wounds are ridiculously deadly to them.

Yeah. I had swapped them out for 3 belaros. LOS issues had me unsure how valuable the bots are versus savvy opponents

 Ideasweasel wrote:
Yeah. I had swapped them out for 3 belaros. LOS issues had me unsure how valuable the bots are versus savvy opponents

The savvy opponents are not afraid of 3x Disintegrators. They are strong, but they don't melt a third of your army in a single turn.

The fact that Dakkabots are so devastating that your opponent is forced to play around them is a massive advantage. I mean, our army is all about that threat saturation.

Alright, so i havn't been active in a long time on here (stopped playing admech since i started approaching the game with a more casual angle) but i had a game yesterday where strong lists were welcome.

Boy, i'm so happy that my lucius army can actually be played as lucius and feel like it too now.

Is it me or is the canticle super strong? Getting many of my key units to a 4++ was super hard for my opponent to get through (Onagers, Fulgurites, Kastellans)

Just this + the new warlord traits made me actively enjoy a forgeworld that used to only be a "gimmick"

@Suzuteo, dont talk me back round to dakkabots lol. Just bought 3 belaros tanks

hey guys. I'm a (relatively) new player (or more accurately, very old player getting back into the game). I've started to collect AD-mech and i've been tinkering around with a list over on the army list section (yes, shameless self promotion). i would be intrested in any input you guys have, either on this thread or mine.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:
Alright, so i havn't been active in a long time on here (stopped playing admech since i started approaching the game with a more casual angle) but i had a game yesterday where strong lists were welcome.

Boy, i'm so happy that my lucius army can actually be played as lucius and feel like it too now.

Is it me or is the canticle super strong? Getting many of my key units to a 4++ was super hard for my opponent to get through (Onagers, Fulgurites, Kastellans)

Just this + the new warlord traits made me actively enjoy a forgeworld that used to only be a "gimmick"

Definitely. Lucius is probably the second most viable Forgeworld. Priests, Robots, and Crawlers are all very strong with that Canticle. Just don't bring Boats. Lol.

 Ideasweasel wrote:
@Suzuteo, dont talk me back round to dakkabots lol. Just bought 3 belaros tanks

Well, plenty of lists out there building around Disintegrators and Corpuscarii. Haha.

I have been considering if I can run the Elimination Volley combo:

Did the math and 43 ppm for HGC Destroyers is not bad at all given how it looks like W2 Marines are just going to be everywhere.

Elimination volley is nice.

Too tough to squeeze everything in. Why did we have to have a new edition again? Haha

I think that's a nice looking list. The only things I'd tinker around to fit are Chaff Launchers on the Fusilave and flamers on the Kataphrons, but those are personal preferences.

 DarkHound wrote:
I think that's a nice looking list. The only things I'd tinker around to fit are Chaff Launchers on the Fusilave and flamers on the Kataphrons, but those are personal preferences.

I had to drop the Chaff Launchers to fit the Destroyers in. I always default to boys before toys. But cutting 1 Destroyer would let me fit in 4 Flamers (8 points) and the Chaff Launcher (20 points) and still have 20 points left over after cutting the spare EDT. Not sure what to use it on though.

EDIT: Or I can skip the Chaff Launcher and run 4x Plasma Vanguard:

You could upgrade a couple of the Ironstriders to Lascannons. I've heard rumblings that the Autocannons are starting to feel lacking against Sisters and Custodes, due to ignoring AP-1 and -2 (from Artisan).

Well, Dakkabots paste Custodes. Sisters don't fare well either, even if their AP is ignored. Lascannons seem to be overkill.

Hey guys, exploring maybe starting up an Admech force for Crusade, in particular im interested in the Sulphurhounds and Raiders id like to run x3 full squads of each. How have people found them to be performing this edition so far?

Im loving raiders just now. My new favourite unit. Last game they ran up and sniped an Psyker HQ that was really clutch

 gmaleron wrote:
Hey guys, exploring maybe starting up an Admech force for Crusade, in particular im interested in the Sulphurhounds and Raiders id like to run x3 full squads of each. How have people found them to be performing this edition so far?

I mean, I'd definitely caution against running 54 cavalry. That doesn't leave you a lot of room for everything else you need.

Raiders have one really valuable unique aspect, which is their stratagem to fallback from charging enemies. This lets them screen other units and ruin the opponent's charges. They are fast, but their damage output is mediocre at best. Though they have some close combat weapons, they're awful in melee. They're extremely cheap per wound though, which again makes them good fodder for protecting other units or camping uncontested objectives.

Sulphurhounds trade in that unique ability for more damage, but they also cost a lot more. They're exactly mediocre: they're pretty fast and kill infantry pretty well at an 8" range, but they suck in close combat. Their stratagem is also weird: it lets them automatically advance 6" and count as having not moved when shooting. Except Pistoleers already lets them advance and shoot without penalty. I guess it removes the -1 penalty on the Blast Carbine, but you already don't take the carbine. It's worse than their default loadout and almost doubles the cost of the model. If you need dedicated anti-infantry shooting, then take either version of Pterraxii, or Corpuscarii, or Destroyers, or Robots, or or or.

If you want a unit of Sulphurhounds because you think they're cool, go ahead and take a big pack of 9. They'll do okay. Raiders are actually a good unit to take. Use a couple units of 5 and string them out along your lines to stop charges or push forward to take objectives early. You really don't need more than one or two squads, and more than 5 models runs into coherency rules so they bunch up and cover less area.

Still wondering what people think about the Heavy Grav-cannon Destroyers. They are not super durable for their cost, but they make up for it with a great gun: Heavy 5 S5 AP3 D1 (D3 vs. 3+). They basically are anti-Marine guns. With Mars Canticle, they go up to S6 and are 3+ to wound against Gravis and Custodes. AP3 is pretty brutal too. I think when Marines go up to W2, this will be a much more relevant option. They also allow you to use Elimination Volley to cancel out terrain penalties.

I guess the alternative are Plasma Culverins, which:
+S9
+6" more range
+Guaranteed 2 damage
-Cost 10 more points
-Have 1.5 less shots on average
-May explode if you do not give them Elimination Volley

Seems like overkill against Gravis and Custodes. Could be useful against Tactical Marines, but the HGC math is superior due to extra shots.

--

Also, I noticed that the groupthink over at WarhammerCompetitive Reddit seems stuck on the old 8E composition: 3x Icarus Crawlers, 3x Disintegrators, and Fulgurites in Boats. They are counting on Corpuscarii bombs to handle elites. I am skeptical.

They are still super down on Robots. Which is funny because these were the same people in 8E who were complaining about:
-Moving and shooting gives -1 to hit penalty
-If they get tagged while rooted, they cannot shoot
-Vehicles dominate the meta, not infantry, so multi-damage weapons are more efficient

Now they're complaining about the Robots' durability and the possibility of being played around. The durability thing is almost never a good argument because AdMech relies on threat saturation anyway. And saying you can play around them is funny because I have spoken to some top players, and they're deathly afraid of Robots in 9E. You cannot "play around" Robots past turn 1 unless you want to fall behind on objectives. And the fact that you can outflank Robots to guarantee shooting first is terrifying. The real threat is -1 to hit from shooting through obscured, which is why Daedalosus and Elimination Volley may be more important than we'd think.

Furthermore, every battle I have watched, if AdMech loses, it is because they cannot hit hard enough. Whether it's because they get tagged early or they just cannot remove the elites. Mortal wounds and S6+ shooting are key against elites.

Destroyers are something I've been seeing around and am very interested in trying out grav ones myself. They put out a lot of shots and are a pretty good WoM target. Sad we lost the specialist detachment

I saw one list where a guy took a traditional mars battalion but had a ryza patrol with plasma destroyers that seemed very interesting.

After talking with a friend of mine, I think spamming Plasma Calivers on Vanguard might be a better choice for now; maybe Grav Destroyers might be more common after W2 Marines become a thing. Been thinking of moving more toward ObSec infantry anyway, so:



Questions:
1) Do I want to drop 8x Plasma Calivers for 5x Serberys Raiders?
1) Do I want to drop 8x Plasma Calivers and Daedalosus for 3x Grav Destroyers? I would use Elimination Volley instead; I am hesitant because it is expensive CP-wise.

I'm not sure I like that list so much. It looks like it checks all the boxes in theory, but imagine where each unit is going to be in practice.

None of the characters can fit in the transports, so you have all of them chained to the Robots. The Ironstriders consequently have to stay with them too. Cawl doesn't need his aura increase if the other units have to be within 6" of the Enginseer and Daedalosus anyway. Speaking of Daedalosus, I'm not sure how much you'll get out of his buff since the units will be shooting at different targets.

Are the Duneriders going to split up to tag separate objectives? The entire Cawl castle will only ever hold one objective, and you'll want to hold another 2 in some matches. Then, at best you could keep one pair of Vanguard with the Fulgerites.

I really have not missed Plasma on my Vanguard. It frees them up to focus on getting on objective rather than being distracted by targets of opportunity. They earn their points in VPs, not kills.

The Fusilave is going to fly off into the enemy's deployment zone alone. All your other forward elements are counter-charge, not actual assault. You'll have to be careful it doesn't end up the prime target for short-ranged anti-tank like Eradicators.

Plus, every time I start to reallocate points in this list, the Fusilave is the first thing to go. You've got over half your points tied up in the Cawl castle that provides no mid-board presence. A third of your forward force is just transports, and another sixth can't even interact with objectives.

I think Grav Cannons and Elimination Volley are going to be potent, and I think something like this is best:You don't necessarily need ObSec bodies. So long as you have any ObSec bodies in range, at worst it reverts to whoever has the most total bodies. Really, you just need more bodies in the midfield, and Hoplites are better at fighting on objectives than Vanguard. Raiders can also take objectives of opportunity, unlike the Fusilave, which means you have more options to concentrate your infantry. I think Elimination Volley is more versatile and effective than Daedalosus, and I think Monitor Malevolus and another Enginseer's repair will add more value over time.

@DarkHound
I don't expect to fit everything inside the 6" bubble of the Magos at all times, so the 9" Cawl aura is a nice backup in that case.

Daedalosus or Elimination Volley are needed to cancel out the Dense terrain penalty. But yeah, once W2 Marines are in the wild, Grav Destroyers look VERY good.

Way I see it, Fulgurites are a bully unit. If your opponent has weaker infantry, you can gobble them up and wreak havoc with a single unit of 10. Hoplites are a defensive unit for holding objectives. You hide them in the Boats and don't disembark them unless you need to. They have 4++ in melee always, and they are dirt cheap for the number of wounds and attacks; with Acquisition, they are even harder to remove, and you want to fight them even less.

I run the Fusilave for multiple reasons:
1) Anti-infantry
2) Engage On All Fronts Secondary
3) Seismic Bombs
4) Distraction Carnifex

That list is pretty sweet though.

EDIT: I think you got the price of Grav Destroyers wrong. 45 ppm with Flamers and 43 ppm with Phosphor Guns. My version of this list takes the latter because I like being able to plink at infantry.

If you were to try a heavy infantry list (vanguards, pterraxii, and some priests) which would dogma would you think is better?

i actually havnt played admech at all in 9th because i keep ending up with a castle strat somehow no matter how hard i try not to lol. Only have 2 boats and theyre swappable between grator/transport, i might be feeling a bit shoehorned into getting another at this point since the transport feels pointless unless you got several, but grators so good man!

So i came up with the idea of going full on infantry with only a small "castle" of 2 dunecrawlers + a grator with exploding 6's warlord trait dominus by them. Theyre not anchored like robots would be so they can move up to an objective at least. The entirety of the rest of the list is vanguard, ranger, priests, and pterraxii lol (priests in a drill rest on foot).

I was thinking Lucius, both for the +1 invul and mass AP1 is pretty common around me atm anyway. But at the same token, with that many 1-2W models Graia sounds good too plus i get access to the deny strat.

The list:



Manip is going to be up front with the vanguards/pterraxi so either lucius or graia specific warlord trait would be great on him.
edit: i would have hoplites in there as i own 20 of them now, but theyre still unassembled as i have been rather...busy...painting a 3d printed Gargant...lol

I don't own any Pterraxii, nor have I used them before, so I will refrain from commenting on the list. But I don't see why AdMech shouldn't embrace castles. I can see the point that you need to scrap over objectives, but I am of the opinion that castles can work when their high damage output is paired with durable, defensive objective grabbers.