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Honestly,i can't understand half the changes.
Take the leman russ f.e , the Tank is a victim from the meta delievered by the existence of knights, also conparatively few shots mean that the more accurate commander is still imo the way to go.

Astropaths got a pricecut, yet worthless malefics still cost 80 pts...

Dropping all csm PA and infantry more or less, whilest nice feels Like a bandaid, a bandaid that will lead to issues sooner or later.

Fw seems untouched generally, and most was allready preety bad,which means that it is even worse now.

Orkz get fixed buyggies i guess.

Generally too much price cutting too few propper fixes.

 Rydria wrote:

 Sersi wrote:

 Rydria wrote:
Noise Marines 13pts, blaster master 12 pts, doom siren 8, sonic blaster 4pts.

Not that I'm surprised, but GW is still way over valuing ignore cover. A storm-bolter or combi-bolter are only 2 pts, and with bolter discipline better options. While an Auto Bolt Rifle with the same profile as a Sonic Blaster costs only 1 pt.

Sonic Blaster I felt should have been 2 points, perhaps they kept it at 4pts due to the stratagem.

But if you compare sonic blaster armed noise marines to auto bolt rifle armed primeris, the noise marines cost more but have 1 less wound in exchange for music of the apocalypse, i'm not sure it is worth it. But the squads i was using got a 36pts discount so I can't really complain about that now it makes them substantially better than they where before.

 Marshal Loss wrote:

 Rydria wrote:
Noise Marines 13pts, blaster master 12pts, doom siren 8, sonic blaster 4pts.

Now they just need to get off their asses and release a new Noise Marine kit

Definitely the upgrade sprue doesn't even fit on the current generation of models, let alone how out of date those upgrade kits even are .

The upgrade kit fits just fine on the newer Chaos Marines, at least all 3 of mine did.

Not Online!!! wrote:
Honestly,i can't understand half the changes.

Sounds about right for a GW points costing..

its GW.
The only point changes that make sense are ones that can potentially boost sales.

Take my buggies for example. Im the ONLY ork player in my area (out of 6) that bought any, the others wouldnt touch them not even the wartrike for that charge aura. I 100% believe they only dropped so drastically because they sold like piss and they knew people loved the models so if they made the points less we'd buy them.
Doesnt help the Snazzwagon or Squigbuggy, those two are unplayable by design and no point drop will fix that w/o being silly cheap (were talking ~55pts for a snazzwagon cheap, which is way too cheap for that many wounds)
Meanwhile, the Stompa which is disgustingly overpriced, got a slap in the face 50pt reduction. The thing we orks have had for eons and probably wont buy more, so they dont care if the rules for it are good or not...wont affect their sales anyway.

I wish CA would also improve dataslates not just points...theres quite a few units not just in my 2 armies that are just...awful and the points arent the reason why. Adjusting rules should be the easy part of a wargame anyway.

The new missions as usual are another huge step in the right direction, in particular the maelstrom ones.

At this point i could even prefer them to eternal war for tournaments packs.

One would think that making the rules for the game better overall would get more fresh blood and untapped incomes into the game... Instead of just beefing up new models to sell new ones...

Interesting that CA19 now has rules for Sealed Fronteris Structures. Wonder if people actually switch over to those for "un-ruined", "not-full-of-holes" buildings instead of the ruins-rules.

Not Online!!! wrote:
Honestly,i can't understand half the changes.
Take the leman russ f.e , the Tank is a victim from the meta delievered by the existence of knights, also conparatively few shots mean that the more accurate commander is still imo the way to go.

Astropaths got a pricecut, yet worthless malefics still cost 80 pts...

Dropping all csm PA and infantry more or less, whilest nice feels Like a bandaid, a bandaid that will lead to issues sooner or later.

Fw seems untouched generally, and most was allready preety bad,which means that it is even worse now.

Orkz get fixed buyggies i guess.

Generally too much price cutting too few propper fixes.

So modus operandi as usual for GW. The changes aren't meant to balance the game.

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Interesting that CA19 now has rules for Sealed Fronteris Structures. Wonder if people actually switch over to those for "un-ruined", "not-full-of-holes" buildings instead of the ruins-rules.

new line of terrain coming up do ya figure?

BrianDavion wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Interesting that CA19 now has rules for Sealed Fronteris Structures. Wonder if people actually switch over to those for "un-ruined", "not-full-of-holes" buildings instead of the ruins-rules.

new line of terrain coming up do ya figure?

I just want complete buildings to mildly ruin. not brand new, not shot/blown to gak, but lightly scarred.

Racerguy180 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Interesting that CA19 now has rules for Sealed Fronteris Structures. Wonder if people actually switch over to those for "un-ruined", "not-full-of-holes" buildings instead of the ruins-rules.

new line of terrain coming up do ya figure?

I just want complete buildings to mildly ruin. not brand new, not shot/blown to gak, but lightly scarred.

I could get behind that, urban hab units with bullet holes and small shell holes rather then "... ok after a week of shelling move the infantry in"

BrianDavion wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Interesting that CA19 now has rules for Sealed Fronteris Structures. Wonder if people actually switch over to those for "un-ruined", "not-full-of-holes" buildings instead of the ruins-rules.

new line of terrain coming up do ya figure?

It has a picture in CA. I think it is the Necromunda stuff? Not sure. Anyhow, an "enclosed building" and/or "bunker-style" building (without being the actual old fortification bunker) without lots of holes and see-through windows in the style of GW ruins.

The Sector Fronteris stuff is from Kill Team:



You can make enclosed buildings with it like the top left one.

If you follow GW tournament packet, completely closed floor levels are impassable terrain.

Spoletta wrote:
If you follow GW tournament packet, completely closed floor levels are impassable terrain.

They are. But especially in the states, few play it that way and allow infantry to move through closed walls as "pseudo"-ruins, in a way (which in turn leads to "magic boxes" if non-ruined walls make up all 4 walls of a building).

 Redemption wrote:
The Sector Fronteris stuff is from Kill Team:

Spoiler:

You can make enclosed buildings with it like the top left one.

hmm not avaliable anymore? damn a shame

Sunny Side Up wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
If you follow GW tournament packet, completely closed floor levels are impassable terrain.

They are. But especially in the states, few play it that way and allow infantry to move through closed walls as "pseudo"-ruins, in a way (which in turn leads to "magic boxes" if non-ruined walls make up all 4 walls of a building).

GW way seems eminently less prone to cause problems.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Redemption wrote:
The Sector Fronteris stuff is from Kill Team:

Spoiler:

You can make enclosed buildings with it like the top left one.

hmm not avaliable anymore? damn a shame

It came with the GSC set and Kellermorph. That Kill Team is no longer available, but given how desirable the Kellermorph was...I'd say it would be stuff we'll see next year again.

I don't mind the point drops.

I can appreciate the concerns, I really can and in most cases I also agree that rather than devalue units, increase the value of others or re-balance the rules is a much better approach. I also understand that fundamental changes to problem units don't happen quickly, especially with such a critical community with a passionate flair for competition (I mean, dota 2, for example gets 1 major update a year? We're getting multiple). I won't pretend to know GW's development method (or lack thereof) but if there's any good with this it's that I can now use MORE of my models in the average game and i'm happy for that. A rumoured 20pt drop to Obliterators? A drop in pts for The Deceiver and Tyrannofex? Bloodthirster at 210? Abaddon at 220/230? Bring it on.

 Kanluwen wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Redemption wrote:
The Sector Fronteris stuff is from Kill Team:

Spoiler:

You can make enclosed buildings with it like the top left one.

hmm not avaliable anymore? damn a shame

It came with the GSC set and Kellermorph. That Kill Team is no longer available, but given how desirable the Kellermorph was...I'd say it would be stuff we'll see next year again.

I don't think it did. I bought that set, and there's no floor, only the walls.

I thought it came with that Kill Team?

I can't find it to check, but it was definitely around that time. Was it the Frontieris killscape?

 Kanluwen wrote:
I thought it came with that Kill Team?

I can't find it to check, but it was definitely around that time. Was it the Frontieris killscape?

It was Sector Fronteris.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Something curious I just noticed - there is a points entry for the Ork "Big Mek with Kustom Force Field". However, there is no datasheet with that name! There is the old "Big Mek" from the Index, and the Big Mek in Mega Armour can also be given a KFF, but that is listed separately. So I wonder if they are planning to bring back the old Kustom Force Field (non-megarmour) Big Mek model?

i'd hope so for orkzs sake.

 Kanluwen wrote:
I thought it came with that Kill Team?

I can't find it to check, but it was definitely around that time. Was it the Frontieris killscape?

The Sector Frontieris killzone (that included the full building) was released at the same time as the Genestealer Cult box with the Kellermorph, and that box contained an extra sprue of ruined walls. But they were two different boxes.

Voss wrote:
So, Chapter Approve brings yet more updated daemon datasheets and something that seems to be actual (experimental) terrain rules. Shocked, me.

As far as I can tell, what they did with the scenery and demon data sheets was reprint everything in CA 2018, and add whatever had been released or updated since then. I know those scenery rules all looked similar with some rearrangement of the order they were listed in.

I'm still trying to figure out why almost every low got a points drop except the hellforged/relic ones.

I mean seriously the baneblade gets a drop but not the fellblade? And the fw excuse doesn't work because they dropped the fething astreus.

Of course that was probably in order to give a viable low option to all those underperforming mono sm armies.

Honestly, a lot of the Ork stuff can be summed up as "we didn't sell as many of those buggies as we wanted".

Gadzilla666 wrote:
I'm still trying to figure out why almost every low got a points drop except the hellforged/relic ones.

I mean seriously the baneblade gets a drop but not the fellblade? And the fw excuse doesn't work because they dropped the fething astreus.

Of course that was probably in order to give a viable low option to all those underperforming mono sm armies.

Because helforged are "classic" FW units, and these got no attention what-so-ever.

You can look euqally at FW tau units for example, no changes at all.

Anything that didn't come down by demand from GW "proper" got nothing-they are mostly fething index rules STILL. and many makes no sense rulewise.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Honestly, a lot of the Ork stuff can be summed up as "we didn't sell as many of those buggies as we wanted".

So i am not the only one thinking that

8

 BoomWolf wrote:

Gadzilla666 wrote:
I'm still trying to figure out why almost every low got a points drop except the hellforged/relic ones.

I mean seriously the baneblade gets a drop but not the fellblade? And the fw excuse doesn't work because they dropped the fething astreus.

Of course that was probably in order to give a viable low option to all those underperforming mono sm armies.

Because helforged are "classic" FW units, and these got no attention what-so-ever.

You can look euqally at FW tau units for example, no changes at all.

Anything that didn't come down by demand from GW "proper" got nothing-they are mostly fething index rules STILL. and many makes no sense rulewise.

Even those super riptide things? Those are the only tau models I like. Would love to see more of those on the table.

I've noticed the whole "classic " fw not getting anything as well. Think maybe they're planning on redoing the ia books? They're getting pretty long in the tooth. Loads of errata and faqs.