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Most Marine lists in my experience had only one captain. BA might go for two. I'm sort of mystified why people think this is going to matter at all.

Tyel wrote:
Most Marine lists in my experience had only one captain. BA might go for two. I'm sort of mystified why people think this is going to matter at all.

Marine players who enjoy being broken trying to pretend that this will be a nerf so people stop complaining about how broken marines are.

Your right, in 8th you rarely see multiple captains because a battalion only has 3 HQ choices, you often don't run a 2nd detachment and Marines have a multitude of good HQ's competing for slots.

"I don't know if 2CP for a captain is worth it."

If you reroll more than 2 ones for that Captain during an important shooting attack (all of them if you're picking targets correctly), you've made your CP back in CP-rerolls alone.

 Ordana wrote:

Tyel wrote:
Most Marine lists in my experience had only one captain. BA might go for two. I'm sort of mystified why people think this is going to matter at all.

Marine players who enjoy being broken trying to pretend that this will be a nerf so people stop complaining about how broken marines are.

Your right, in 8th you rarely see multiple captains because a battalion only has 3 HQ choices, you often don't run a 2nd detachment and Marines have a multitude of good HQ's competing for slots.

Well it is a nerf, just maybe not a meaningful one. If they'd locked the captain to the chapter keyword, that might have been better.

To be honest, whatever it takes for the whining to end, let it be so now.

 Insectum7 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Sorry where were all these rerolls again?

In the marine army because you're playing marines and you're gonna have rerolls.

Then you need to include the points in all the calculations you're talking about. Captains don't just exist out of thin air.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Sorry where were all these rerolls again?

In the marine army because you're playing marines and you're gonna have rerolls.

Then you need to include the points in all the calculations you're talking about. Captains don't just exist out of thin air.

They exist in the army whether the Eradicators are in there or not, and they buff far more than the Eradicators. So no, you don't include the cost of the CM+Lt.

 Insectum7 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Sorry where were all these rerolls again?

In the marine army because you're playing marines and you're gonna have rerolls.

Then you need to include the points in all the calculations you're talking about. Captains don't just exist out of thin air.

They exist in the army whether the Eradicators are in there or not, and they buff far more than the Eradicators. So no, you don't include the cost of the CM+Lt.

Their presence should be noted-Eradicators do not get to reroll all hits and wounds of 1 just for existing.

But I do agree that, given the fact that they use aura buffs, their entire cost does not have to be tacked on to the Eradicators. Whereas if we were talking Guardsmen and Orders, or Eldar and Guide, you kinda would, since those are single-target buffs.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Sorry where were all these rerolls again?

In the marine army because you're playing marines and you're gonna have rerolls.

Then you need to include the points in all the calculations you're talking about. Captains don't just exist out of thin air.

Let's say you have a single 105pt Captain in your 2000pt list. The Captain takes up 5.25% of your list, which can be accounted for as a 'tax' of 5.25% for your other units.

Thus the actual cost of an Eradicator squad with re-rolls is... 126pts. So yeah, we can include the Captain's points- it's just six points to give Eradicators re-roll 1s.

Maybe you need two Captains to get adequate coverage. Now the tax is 10.5%. The 'actual' cost of an Eradicator squad with re-roll 1s is now 133pts. Still absurdly good- a 17% increase in firepower for a mere 10.5% increase in cost, and you're fulfilling HQ requirements, and you get some beatsticks to take and dish out damage to boot.

Does that really make Eradicators seem less attractive?

Dudeface wrote:
To be honest, whatever it takes for the whining to end, let it be so now.

Noooooooooooo, you are asking for the end of 40K! Only then the whining will end (or maybe not even then )

 catbarf wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Sorry where were all these rerolls again?

In the marine army because you're playing marines and you're gonna have rerolls.

Then you need to include the points in all the calculations you're talking about. Captains don't just exist out of thin air.

Let's say you have a single 105pt Captain in your 2000pt list. The Captain takes up 5.25% of your list, which can be accounted for as a 'tax' of 5.25% for your other units.

Thus the actual cost of an Eradicator squad with re-rolls is... 126pts. So yeah, we can include the Captain's points- it's just six points to give Eradicators re-roll 1s.

Maybe you need two Captains to get adequate coverage. Now the tax is 10.5%. The 'actual' cost of an Eradicator squad with re-roll 1s is now 133pts. Still absurdly good- a 17% increase in firepower for a mere 10.5% increase in cost, and you're fulfilling HQ requirements, and you get some beatsticks to take and dish out damage to boot.

Does that really make Eradicators seem less attractive?

Keep going, add the chapter master upgrade onto one since all marine armies re-roll everything all the time, 2 lieutenants to cover the same area for the wound re-rolls since apparently they come as standard as well.

I get (using firstborn to save points) captain with bolt pistol and chainsword (he's there for rerolls after all), lieutenant with bolt pistol and chainsword =145 for the pair, need a 2nd patrol for that one per detachment captain if we're future proofing. So we're at -4cp and 290 or 14.5% points increase across the board. Probably still worth ir but you need them in those bubbles all the time to get the value or you're literally throwing points away since we're factoring a tax onto every unit in the army evenly.

Dudeface wrote:
I get (using firstborn to save points) captain with bolt pistol and chainsword (he's there for rerolls after all), lieutenant with bolt pistol and chainsword =145 for the pair, need a 2nd patrol for that one per detachment captain if we're future proofing. So we're at -4cp and 290 or 14.5% points increase across the board. Probably still worth ir but you need them in those bubbles all the time to get the value or you're literally throwing points away since we're factoring a tax onto every unit in the army evenly.

A 14.5% increase and a third of your CP for a flat 56% increase in firepower (75% if the enemy has a -1 to hit) every turn seems like a no-brainer to me. At that point Eradicators have no trouble recouping even their increased cost in one volley- zap a bare-bones 175pt Leman Russ and you get 160pts back on your adjusted 137pt unit.

Even if you assume only half the army will benefit from rerolls, 29% increase in cost for that 56/75% higher output is a good deal, and you're still in the black with just one shot.

Theres no space marine army that works without a captain. And most have also a lieutenaunt. Only some of the broken iron hand ones that spammed heavy weapons played without captains because when you are BS+2 and rerolling 1's you don't need a captain or chapter master.

So basically , you can't assume that every space marine unit is gonna be rerolling 1's. That depends in the unit: If its some kind of unit that is gonna be fast and alone like land speeders and bikers then yeah, maybe being in rerroll auras is more difficult, but the units that go in your typical shooting castle? Those surely are getting those auras.

That said, I don't think tue captain is astoundingly relevant, because he also could buff the predator or the land speeders. Now, of course, he may just leave the Pred behind or not be able to keep up with the speeders while he'll probably easily be able to hang out with Eradicators, but that question is getting a little specific.


However,
The Eradicators are still better than a Predator. In fact, for 180 points, the Pred doesn't even compete at all with either the Speeders or the Eradicators.

Eradicators could be 180 points and still compare favorably to the Pred, almost 3 times better in close range and twice as good in long range.

Now, if contemptors are the model for underpriced and overcapable, predators are pretty much the opposite

 Galas wrote:
Theres no space marine army that works without a captain. And most have also a lieutenaunt. Only some of the broken iron hand ones that spammed heavy weapons played without captains because when you are BS+2 and rerolling 1's you don't need a captain or chapter master.

So basically , you can't assume that every space marine unit is gonna be rerolling 1's. That depends in the unit: If its some kind of unit that is gonna be fast and alone like land speeders and bikers then yeah, maybe being in rerroll auras is more difficult, but the units that go in your typical shooting castle? Those surely are getting those auras.

My issue with this is that it's ignoring possibly the main argument for the eradicators - walking them up the middle in a shooting caslte allows them to be shot. If they're off the board from reserves then they're not contributing and they're harder to get into aura range when they do appear.

So the question is - which is it? In the middle of a castle to be shot at from t1 before they can get into melta range, or out of reserves but we can assume they're not getting that bubble if they're coming in deep up the board.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
That said, I don't think tue captain is astoundingly relevant, because he also could buff the predator or the land speeders. Now, of course, he may just leave the Pred behind or not be able to keep up with the speeders while he'll probably easily be able to hang out with Eradicators, but that question is getting a little specific.


However,
The Eradicators are still better than a Predator. In fact, for 180 points, the Pred doesn't even compete at all with either the Speeders or the Eradicators.

Eradicators could be 180 points and still compare favorably to the Pred, almost 3 times better in close range and twice as good in long range.

Now, if contemptors are the model for underpriced and overcapable, predators are pretty much the opposite

This is twofold, the predator needs some help but at the same time it's harder to hurt than the eradicators.

Dudeface wrote:
So the question is - which is it? In the middle of a castle to be shot at from t1 before they can get into melta range, or out of reserves but we can assume they're not getting that bubble if they're coming in deep up the board.

In my experience: Standing behind a building or other piece of LOS-blocking cover during deployment, then stepping out T1 for a shot. They have a 29" threat range by default and can Advance and shoot, so getting a shot T1 is only out of the question if they get the first turn and the enemy deploys far back.

They're also durable enough at 40ppm that they're neither an easy kill nor free points. D2 weapons are no more efficient against them than they are against basic Intercessors, and they're tougher against S4 weapons too.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:


Eradicators could be 180 points and still compare favorably to the Pred, almost 3 times better in close range and twice as good in long range.

With my SW I tipycally bring a unit of long fangs (and other SM have devastators). 6 dudes with 5 missile launchers/lascannons cost 171 points. For 5 shots, heavy instead of assault, and 6W T4. And the unit is universally considered to be good or ok at least. When they get their 2nd wound they'll also likely to be +3ppm so 189ish points. For 12W T4 which can compete with 9W T5.

So yeah, 60ppm eradicators will still be competitive. Not just simply good, definitely competitive.

Dudeface wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
That said, I don't think tue captain is astoundingly relevant, because he also could buff the predator or the land speeders. Now, of course, he may just leave the Pred behind or not be able to keep up with the speeders while he'll probably easily be able to hang out with Eradicators, but that question is getting a little specific.


However,
The Eradicators are still better than a Predator. In fact, for 180 points, the Pred doesn't even compete at all with either the Speeders or the Eradicators.

Eradicators could be 180 points and still compare favorably to the Pred, almost 3 times better in close range and twice as good in long range.

Now, if contemptors are the model for underpriced and overcapable, predators are pretty much the opposite

This is twofold, the predator needs some help but at the same time it's harder to hurt than the eradicators.

It's... actually not really. The Eradicators are three discrete bodies at T5 Sv3+ with 9 total wounds. Predators are a single body of T7 Sv3+ W11. Damage wise, Eradicators are actually more resilient against D3, D6, 2, and 4+ damage weapons. And this isn't like the Land Speeder Squadron where it's mostly a wash, the Eradictors take more missile, lascannon, battle cannon, and plasmagun shots to kill than a Predator.

And as for toughness, because of the vagarities of the wound chart and the fact that for some reason the mark of a heavy tank is it's improve resilience against small arms, they're also pretty similar in that respect at the end of the day, unless your meta is saturated with S6 D3 weapons.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
That said, I don't think tue captain is astoundingly relevant, because he also could buff the predator or the land speeders. Now, of course, he may just leave the Pred behind or not be able to keep up with the speeders while he'll probably easily be able to hang out with Eradicators, but that question is getting a little specific.


However,
The Eradicators are still better than a Predator. In fact, for 180 points, the Pred doesn't even compete at all with either the Speeders or the Eradicators.

Eradicators could be 180 points and still compare favorably to the Pred, almost 3 times better in close range and twice as good in long range.

Now, if contemptors are the model for underpriced and overcapable, predators are pretty much the opposite

This is twofold, the predator needs some help but at the same time it's harder to hurt than the eradicators.

It's... actually not really. The Eradicators are three discrete bodies at T5 Sv3+ with 9 total wounds. Predators are a single body of T7 Sv3+ W11. Damage wise, Eradicators are actually more resilient against D3, D6, 2, and 4+ damage weapons. And this isn't like the Land Speeder Squadron where it's mostly a wash, the Eradictors take more missile, lascannon, battle cannon, and plasmagun shots to kill than a Predator.

And as for toughness, because of the vagarities of the wound chart and the fact that for some reason the mark of a heavy tank is it's improve resilience against small arms, they're also pretty similar in that respect at the end of the day, unless your meta is saturated with S6 D3 weapons.

Also, Apothecaries (and the Chief variant) can be used to make Eradicators more durable against even flat 3 damage weapons.

It takes...

4 unsaved wounds
8 successful wounds
16 hits
24 shots from a Helverin Autocannon to kill a Predator.

Normally, that would kill five and some change Eradicators. But with a 5+ FNP from a Chief Apothecary, you're looking at needing two failed saves to kill an Eradicator 70% of the time, meaning that it'd take...

5 unsaved wounds (assuming one gets unlucky and gets bodied in one shot)
10 successful wounds
15 hits
22.5 shots

Which, given that their Autocannons are 2d3 apiece, basically means you need 3 Helverins (6 Autocannons) shooting to wipe a Predator or a squad of Eradicators. If the Eradicators get lucky and need 2 failed saves for ALL of them, that raises to 27 shots, or 3.5 Helverins (7 Autocannons).

Plus the Apothecary can resurrect them too!

And don't forget about cover. Many competitive lists run the custom trait that makes them count as being in cover (alongside +3" range on their guns). More realistically, they're T5 2+.

Have we reached the point yet where it is more efficient to shoot infantry with antitank weapons and to shoot tanks with anti-infantry weapons yet?

Remember, you need 99 bolter hits to kill a predator and 120 to kill a tactical squad.

Now it sounds like all those antitank weapons you used to aim at the predator would be better off shooting infantry (Eradicators) if you are doing target priority right.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Have we reached the point yet where it is more efficient to shoot infantry with antitank weapons and to shoot tanks with anti-infantry weapons yet?

Remember, you need 99 bolter hits to kill a predator and 120 to kill a tactical squad.

Now it sounds like all those antitank weapons you used to aim at the predator would be better off shooting infantry (Eradicators) if you are doing target priority right.

Yes, we are. Though specifically for heavy infantry, which at least as far as I can remember, it has generally been better to shoot heavy infantry with AT weapons than anti-infantry weapons.

The anti-infantry-weapons-at-tanks-thing has been an annoyance of mine ever since I took Devilgaunts against Custodes and found I got far better returns by shooting them at the FW hover vehicles which were T7 3+ instead of T5 2+. Wounding both targets required a 5+, and firing at 3+ armor saw double the success of successful wounds.

Irksome.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

 vipoid wrote:
The issue is that Eradicators blow the anti-tank options of virtually every other faction in the game out of the water.

Just compare them to Fire Dragons, for example.

The fact that Marine players look at them and think 'well, they're okay, but I've got better stuff...' is neither a point in their favour, nor a point in the favour of the Marine codex in general.

If feel like this would matter, if Eradicators could be taken by other factions. Are they better than Fire Dragons? Debatable. Are Fire Dragons still good, very much so. Can Eldar players run Eradicators? No. Can Eldar Players run Fire Dragons? Yes.

Will both of these units delete any tank they see? Yes.

.

You think 12" is as far as models see? Also, 120 points of Eradicators also just get more shots than 120 points of Fire Dragons, let alone doing it at 2.5x the range. If you think there's a debate on which is better, you're opinion doesn't matter since you're either willfully ignorant or completely misinformed.

Please. You're comparing apples to oranges because you all need something to argue about until the next reveal drops.

If I'm playing my eldar, what on earth do I care about the points cost of some other unit, from some other army for? I have my own tactics and tricks for making my units work on the battlefield.

Also, I would say none of your opinions matter on any of this stuff. It's a silly game.

How is “elite anti-tank unit” an apples to oranges comparison?

It’s not one-to-one, but it’s definitely comparable. And Fire Dragons do not compare favorably.

Ah yes, the "you shouldn't complain about other armies having better things" argument.

Let's just all play 30k then instead, shall we?

The fact is, Eradicators essentially invalidate an eldar unit. Fluff wise it makes no sense (Eldar are super high tech, marines are monkeys in armor), game design wise it makes no sense (invalidating critical design space, power creep) and gameplay wise it makes no sense (if someone's units are ALWAYS better than ANY other factions, why use those other factions)? Please, you're the one who's saying to a farmer "stop comparing apples to oranges" when the oranges sell for double the price.

Dudeface wrote:


My issue with this is that it's ignoring possibly the main argument for the eradicators - walking them up the middle in a shooting caslte allows them to be shot. If they're off the board from reserves then they're not contributing and they're harder to get into aura range when they do appear.

So the question is - which is it? In the middle of a castle to be shot at from t1 before they can get into melta range, or out of reserves but we can assume they're not getting that bubble if they're coming in deep up the board.

Its not that hard to deep strike a captain. It can be both.

The point surely is that you do what seems best based on the mission, terrain and your opponents army.

Then on whether you also like to live dangerously. Its not as if these are bad units without rerolling everything.

Tyel wrote:
The point surely is that you do what seems best based on the mission, terrain and your opponents army.

Then on whether you also like to live dangerously. Its not as if these are bad units without rerolling everything.

Don't forget there's also the synergy with the rest of the units you prefer, and personal preference for which abilities you value for which roles and which units. Without the Deepstrike angle I think the Eradicators are over-valued. Not over costed, or underpowered or non-capable etc but over-hyped.

I'm personally quite fond of Aggressors. They have some of the same characteristics of Eliminators - slower, durable, fire-magnet, assault (move and fire, not assault/fight phase) type units. One difference is the Aggressors are likely to have more optimal targets in optimal situations than Eradicators just because there are usually more basic troops than hardened targets.

For that reason I'm more inclined to Attack Bikes or MM Speeders (or the upcoming Marine ATV), or Plasma Inceptors (but not really) for a faster distracting unit to pair with Aggressors over two plodding foot sloggers i.e adding Eradicators.

Some days I might invert it - some dakka Inceptors and Eradicators but mostly I lean towards slower units having more targets (troops/swarms/etc) and faster units having the less common ones(Hardened/Vehicles/etc).

I think most people make the list without knowing the Mission, terrain, or opponent's army so they make their combos/strategies/etc against a generic idea. Most of the long range units like Devastators (especially if they're move-or-fire or fire-with-penalty depending on edition rules) and tanks stay in the back (though move and fire vehicles may alter this some) Jumpy/Punchy units tend to run to your side. Some exceptions based on what your army is, or what their army is will always come up, but you also kind of know what those are too, and know what those outliers are. I think most people make their list with this in mind, and make little mini-plans for how they can use Unit A with Unit B, and if Unit B has to do something else, what are some other combos with Unit C and/or Unit D they patch the holes of "losing" Unit B to a different purpose creates.

I think some people also play some What-If games. What if the army is wonky? Several Aircraft? All Ravenwing/Deathwing/Wildriders of SaimHann/Four Knights/Thematic etc etc etc.

Breton wrote:
Without the Deepstrike angle I think the Eradicators are over-valued. Not over costed, or underpowered or non-capable etc but over-hyped.

And I think you need to read the thread again to discover the math underlying why Eradicators are OP. They are definitely undercosted and definitely overpowered and supremely capable. The hype level is probably about right, maybe a tad too high. The max unit size of 3 and rule of 3 prevents them from having as big an impact on the meta as they would have had if you could take 3x5 or 5x3.

Don't forget there's also the synergy with the rest of the units you prefer, and personal preference for which abilities you value for which roles and which units. I'm personally quite fond of Aggressors. They have some of the same characteristics of Eliminators - slower, durable, fire-magnet, assault (move and fire, not assault/fight phase) type units. One difference is the Aggressors are likely to have more optimal targets in optimal situations than Eradicators just because there are usually more basic troops than hardened targets.

Eradicators and Aggressors have excellent synergy because they have the same defensive stats, meaning your opponent's optimal anti-Aggressor guns might be wasted (or at least used) on Eradicators. Neither of these units are slow, when you can advance and shoot you're not really slow anymore. Would you call a M8 BS 4 unit slow? Because in Necron land that gets called reasonably fast. It doesn't matter whether there are more infantry or tanks in your meta, you will need some anti-tank and Eradicators currently do it best out of any unit in the game pretty much. 3x3 is not going to approach breaking the bank, in fact, you probably still want more anti-tank after taking those 3x3, but those 3x3 should still be the first thing you put in your list, especially if you plan on taking Aggressors.

For that reason I'm more inclined to Attack Bikes or MM Speeders (or the upcoming Marine ATV), or Plasma Inceptors (but not really) for a faster distracting unit to pair with Aggressors over two plodding foot sloggers i.e adding Eradicators.

You're going to take 1-shot MM Attack Bikes or Speeders or are you just assuming the upgrade to Heavy 2 has already been implemented into the pts? The new codex is still several months away. There is no greater distraction than a unit of Eradicators, they are cheap, durable and cause a lot of damage. Why do you need speed, do you think your opponent will ignore them until they get in range of something important and blow it up? You can also take 3x3 Eradicators 2x5 Aggressors and still have pts left for 3x3 Primaris Bikes to act as a bonus distraction.

I think some people also play some What-If games. What if the army is wonky? Several Aircraft? All Ravenwing/Deathwing/Wildriders of SaimHann/Four Knights/Thematic etc etc etc.

That would be a really good idea if you don't just want the best possible win record over your next 10 games, but you want to win a tournament and as such cannot afford to have a terrible match-up. You could also build an anti-horde list or an anti-vehicle list if your goal was to just maximize chances of getting at least one victory. Nothing wrong with any of these approaches, just hobby goals, it is the same difference as between painting one model for 10 hours vs painting an army in 10 hours to get best painted miniature vs just getting the bonus VP for having a battle ready army, neither is more right than the other.

 vict0988 wrote:

Breton wrote:
Without the Deepstrike angle I think the Eradicators are over-valued. Not over costed, or underpowered or non-capable etc but over-hyped.

And I think you need to read the thread again to discover the math underlying why Eradicators are OP. They are definitely undercosted and definitely overpowered and supremely capable. The hype level is probably about right, maybe a tad too high. The max unit size of 3 and rule of 3 prevents them from having as big an impact on the meta as they would have had if you could take 3x5 or 5x3.

That's what I just said. I said they were over-hyped, I even specifically pointed out I was only talking about the hype not a comment on bad/good/etc.

Don't forget there's also the synergy with the rest of the units you prefer, and personal preference for which abilities you value for which roles and which units. I'm personally quite fond of Aggressors. They have some of the same characteristics of Eliminators - slower, durable, fire-magnet, assault (move and fire, not assault/fight phase) type units. One difference is the Aggressors are likely to have more optimal targets in optimal situations than Eradicators just because there are usually more basic troops than hardened targets.

Eradicators and Aggressors have excellent synergy because they have the same defensive stats, meaning your opponent's optimal anti-Aggressor guns might be wasted (or at least used) on Eradicators. Neither of these units are slow, when you can advance and shoot you're not really slow anymore. Would you call a M8 BS 4 unit slow? Because in Necron land that gets called reasonably fast. It doesn't matter whether there are more infantry or tanks in your meta, you will need some anti-tank and Eradicators currently do it best out of any unit in the game pretty much. 3x3 is not going to approach breaking the bank, in fact, you probably still want more anti-tank after taking those 3x3, but those 3x3 should still be the first thing you put in your list, especially if you plan on taking Aggressors.

The optimal guns for 3 5" T5 3+ wounds are not the same guns for 10-16" 4 T5 3+ wounds? Just about everything that synergizes between Aggressors and Eliminators also synergizes with MM Speeders or Inceptors and almost with attack bikes.
And I call just about everything that foot slogs slow.

For that reason I'm more inclined to Attack Bikes or MM Speeders (or the upcoming Marine ATV), or Plasma Inceptors (but not really) for a faster distracting unit to pair with Aggressors over two plodding foot sloggers i.e adding Eradicators.

You're going to take 1-shot MM Attack Bikes or Speeders or are you just assuming the upgrade to Heavy 2 has already been implemented into the pts? The new codex is still several months away. There is no greater distraction than a unit of Eradicators, they are cheap, durable and cause a lot of damage. Why do you need speed, do you think your opponent will ignore them until they get in range of something important and blow it up? You can also take 3x3 Eradicators 2x5 Aggressors and still have pts left for 3x3 Primaris Bikes to act as a bonus distraction.

That was part of my original premise in the original post yeah, assuming the change goes live and wide. Theorycrafting for the future. Its not like the shops are open for a whole lot of games right now.

I think some people also play some What-If games. What if the army is wonky? Several Aircraft? All Ravenwing/Deathwing/Wildriders of SaimHann/Four Knights/Thematic etc etc etc.

That would be a really good idea if you don't just want the best possible win record over your next 10 games, but you want to win a tournament and as such cannot afford to have a terrible match-up. You could also build an anti-horde list or an anti-vehicle list if your goal was to just maximize chances of getting at least one victory. Nothing wrong with any of these approaches, just hobby goals, it is the same difference as between painting one model for 10 hours vs painting an army in 10 hours to get best painted miniature vs just getting the bonus VP for having a battle ready army, neither is more right than the other.