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On the contrary, I'd view the Compendium more as a 'Chapter Approved' book. Something they can print another of later on if they add new troops, factions, or anything else. Why sell one Compendium when they can sell a compendium yearly, on top of the elites and commander expansions, which may have their own compendiums released yearly?
It sounds like you do have to move in 2" segments. For example, when climbing, if the thing is 2.5" tall, it uses up 2 of your 2" segments to climb it, and the third segment to move horizontally onto the ceiling or whatever you're climbing onto. Now, I don't know what value at all the shapes bring to it. Or if the game actually gains anything from doing the movement in rounded 2" segments like this.
Seems despite having lots of options, the Krieger kit is as set as other modern GW plastics. That's a damned shame. And the various circle, triangle, square measurement nonsense is really just a substitute for numbers, making the whole process a waste of time.
If there was only a common set of measurement units everybody could understand, and use at a glance... we could call it numbers!
Cannot have the players building all the options with just one kit. The need to pay GW more money.
M.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/11 00:47:26
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Smith Jamison: We aren't here, which means when we open up on you and shred your bodies with automatic fire then this will never have happened.
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Seems despite having lots of options, the Krieger kit is as set as other modern GW plastics. That's a damned shame. And the various circle, triangle, square measurement nonsense is really just a substitute for numbers, making the whole process a waste of time.
If there was only a common set of measurement units everybody could understand, and use at a glance... we could call it numbers!
Cannot have the players building all the options with just one kit. The need to pay GW more money.
M.
the matched play info .... no specialists. This willl be interesting to see pan out.
~ Shrap
Rolling 1's for five and a half decades.
AoS * Konflikt '47 * Conquest Last Argument of Kings * Trench Crusade * Horus Heresy * The Old World * Armoured Clash
The A73 thing is nothing. Obviously that's just a space saving measure so that you can have an uplifting primer and a trench shovel (or whatever cool bits) instead of three identical right elbows. Remember, a guard squad in 40k can't have multiple specials, and that's undoubtedly where they're going to sell most of these kits.
The real worry is what he wasn't saying about the other armies. It really sounded like the non-octarius teams don't have the cool flavor and pseudo-specialists that make the dkk vets and kommandos interesting. Which would be a shame and dampen my interest. If 19/21 teams are "dude with bolter and nothing else" and "dude with meltagun and nothing else", it's going to be more than a bit bland.
drbored wrote: On the contrary, I'd view the Compendium more as a 'Chapter Approved' book. Something they can print another of later on if they add new troops, factions, or anything else. Why sell one Compendium when they can sell a compendium yearly, on top of the elites and commander expansions, which may have their own compendiums released yearly?
Judging by the Octarius book being bound to the boxset and the 'kill zones' very specifically using the terrain from the box, I think the plan will be to release more boxes like Octarius going forward. New campaign book, new set of terrain, two new teams. Then after the big box has sold out, they'll release all of those separate, but the FOMO element is the discount (which will probably be devoured by a rulebook/counter/measuring stick reprint) and having it months in advance.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/11 02:43:07
Albino Squirrel wrote: It sounds like you do have to move in 2" segments. For example, when climbing, if the thing is 2.5" tall, it uses up 2 of your 2" segments to climb it, and the third segment to move horizontally onto the ceiling or whatever you're climbing onto. Now, I don't know what value at all the shapes bring to it. Or if the game actually gains anything from doing the movement in rounded 2" segments like this.
Based on the terrain article, they did it in pieces to make difficult terrain easier. Hopping an obstacle ('a traverse'), is just a matter of forfeiting one of your three 2" moves and ignoring the vertical movement altogether.
So Traversable terrain is functionally not 3 dimensional in the movement phase, but a Vantage Point is? But only the part of the terrain that's specifically defined as a vantage point, so that won't be confusing.
And some terrain can't be traversed or climbed but only scrambled over, and that's... different somehow.
None of this really justifies the three piece movement or the colored shape distances, just more finicky stuff on top.
Trimarius wrote: The A73 thing is nothing. Obviously that's just a space saving measure so that you can have an uplifting primer and a trench shovel (or whatever cool bits) instead of three identical right elbows. Remember, a guard squad in 40k can't have multiple specials, and that's undoubtedly where they're going to sell most of these kits.
The real worry is what he wasn't saying about the other armies. It really sounded like the non-octarius teams don't have the cool flavor and pseudo-specialists that make the dkk vets and kommandos interesting. Which would be a shame and dampen my interest. If 19/21 teams are "dude with bolter and nothing else" and "dude with meltagun and nothing else", it's going to be more than a bit bland.
In the beginning of the vid, he specifically stated that he cannot talk about the Compendium until 14th of August.
tauist wrote: I'm not going to defend GW's prices, but I don't really compare these two editions to each other. It's quite clear KT2 was a much more labour intensive task for the devs than KT1, which was mostly a copy/paste job from the 40K material of that time, dataslates included.
Also, you need to consider that while KT1 was meant as an entry point into 40K proper, KT2 seems more like it's own independent thing this time. It's targeted more towards skirmish fans who would never get into 40K proper in the first place. To me, this is GW's version of Xcom.
Absolutely. A lazy effort to make a 40k lite entry point into the actual game selling for $40 in rules is one thing, but you can't expect that same price point for a completely new effort that actually delivers a much more mature and mechanically sound skirmish game.
tauist wrote: I like the fact that all factions get their datasheets simultaneously. I hear many 40K players begging GW to do a similar thing with the bigger game, yet when they do it for KT2 it's suddenly a terrible idea??!
Yeah, the cardinal sin here is clearly not doing the obviously logistically impossible pipe-dream of 40k players where every one of the 20+ factions gets a codex of only their rules, in full detail relative to the edition before it, released simultaneously with the new edition; and make it well balanced, perfectly edited, and extensively playtested while you're at it.
I'm pretty happy to see the compendium. $50 for nearly 200 models' rules is a steak, and given that Kill Team is the one place in the hobby where I can entertain the notion of actually starting new factions just to paint some models I like, or to explore new ground, etc, without dropping several hundred dollars and months of my hobby time to paint up a new army, having all the rules for potential new factions to digest and plan is of great value to me, unlike in 40k where I'm nearly monogamous by necessity.
I'm afraid the compendium is the index thing all over again. A temporary band aid until they can get out books for every team. GW loves its books and codexes why wouldn't they use this as an opportunity the same as every other product they make.
As far as skirmishes go, necromunda is also a GW skirmish game with decent overall rules... it is the pure amount of books needed to play it that ruined that game.
I disagree. Every KT1 book had datasheets for all the factions of the game. I'm pretty sure this will not change in KT2. Sure, there will be new killzone boxes with two teams coming down the line, but I'm 100% sure that will not be the only way factions will be added to the game.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/11 04:57:49
NinthMusketeer wrote: I've seen FOMO being waved around, when it really doesn't apply. Like, I do get black knighting but this one is categorically weird.
Dark Knighting. How many times?
But yeah, if GW is doing what they say they're doing, and you can still order it 16 seconds after pre-orders go live, then there ain't no FOMO here.
Apple fox wrote: But if they where to do individual books for factions It would be a huge waste, better to ad one or two units to each faction in a good campaign book.
From watching GMG look at the rulebook & Octarius book, my gut feeling is Compendium for now, then different campaign books to expand the factions. Like for now you have Veteran Guard/Kommandos separate from Imperial Guard/Orks with the Octarius book,
Reading between it lines it does sound like the plan to have dedicated Kill-Teams like Kommandos and Vets and the Compendium stuff is (£30) filler until they get around to giving most of the 40k factions their own box.
Question is are they all going to be hidden behind huge boxsets like Octarius? With the way terrain, sorry, 'Kill-Zones' now work, it wouldn't shock me if they were.
This is definitely my concern. The Krieg team and Kommando team seem like they would be a ton of fun to play and make for some pretty cinematic games. The rest of the factions just seem like "dude with autogun" and "dude with power sword." At least from the profiles they have shown. That's why I'm not picking up the compendium. To me the game looks like a lot of fun, but the compendium factions look uninteresting to play.
I am sincerely hoping we will get other factions with kits like the Krieg and Kommando kits. I also hope those those factions have their rules in their box and don't require another large box like Octarius. Which, like you said, wouldn't really surprise me.
Very sorry if this has been asked- I've just getting back in the swing of things and trying to get caught up.
Question: Do we know if the Krieg will be a full range or just in the this set.
Thank you!
GW has confirmed that the DKoK in Octarius box will be available separately as a standalone plastic kit. They have also made a transfer sheet for Krieg, and there have been rumours of at least the Krieg equivalent of Rough Riders being made into a new kit.
I'd wager at least a few more DKoK kits will be forthcoming. They wouldn't need many kits for one to be able to build an all Krieg army, since all of the current guard vehicles could be used for them as well with just adding some Krieg tranfers.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Second batrep from Guerrilla
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/11 06:45:31
"The larger point though, is that as players, we have more control over what the game looks and feels like than most of us are willing to use in order to solve our own problems"
We've seen the regular Imperial Guard roster, and it is basically just "dude with lasgun, dude with plasmagun, dude with meltagun" etc etc.
Releasing these boxes is all well and good, but I hope that's not the default for Killteam.
They're just crap value for me as I'm not interested in the terrain or more than one of the teams. So this would be a really prohibitive way to sell a game that's meant to be really easy to get into.
Finished watching the second Guerrilla batrep. The DKoK player never seems to use the GA 2 pair effectively.
The strafing run & smart missile seem to be pretty much auto-takes for the vet guards. The strafing run especially is surprisingly effective on this pitifully tiny board size.
"The larger point though, is that as players, we have more control over what the game looks and feels like than most of us are willing to use in order to solve our own problems"
tauist wrote: Finished watching the second Guerrilla batrep. The DKoK player never seems to use the GA 2 pair effectively.
The strafing run & smart missile seem to be pretty much auto-takes for the vet guards. The strafing run especially is surprisingly effective on this pitifully tiny board size.
He mention in a comment on video one that only two had GA 2, so would just forget to use it.
tauist wrote: Finished watching the second Guerrilla batrep. The DKoK player never seems to use the GA 2 pair effectively.
The strafing run & smart missile seem to be pretty much auto-takes for the vet guards. The strafing run especially is surprisingly effective on this pitifully tiny board size.
He mention in a comment on video one that only two had GA 2, so would just forget to use it.
Yeah, I realize that. But what I mean is that he doesn't seem to understand that the GA2 duo is in fact a "Specialist model" into itself, there are many things the duo could do the other models can't. He hasn't yet grasped this. He always deploys the duo far from each other, and never uses their synergy to his advantage. Missing the point a bit.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/11 09:15:30
"The larger point though, is that as players, we have more control over what the game looks and feels like than most of us are willing to use in order to solve our own problems"
I play Necromunda a lot, in that your champions and leader have the ability to Group Activate with one or two other models, respectively.
I hardly ever use it, the benefits that you get for activating two at once are almost always overshadowed by the benefits of activating models later in the turn (after enemy models have activated, thereby preventing them from immediately responding).
In fact, one of the first pieces of advice to a new player is don't get carried away doing group activations just because you can, which is very common.
Of course, Killteam mitigates that somewhat by offering Overwatch - so activating after your opponent is finished can now be detrimental as you're giving your opponent free shooting.
Group Activation could now be a useful tool to try and finish activating early and benefit from Overwatch yourself.
But I think that's probably the long and short of it?
I play Necromunda a lot, in that your champions and leader have the ability to Group Activate with one or two other models, respectively.
I hardly ever use it, the benefits that you get for activating two at once are almost always overshadowed by the benefits of activating models later in the turn (after enemy models have activated, thereby preventing them from immediately responding).
In fact, one of the first pieces of advice to a new player is don't get carried away doing group activations just because you can, which is very common.
Of course, Killteam mitigates that somewhat by offering Overwatch - so activating after your opponent is finished can now be detrimental as you're giving your opponent free shooting.
Group Activation could now be a useful tool to try and finish activating early and benefit from Overwatch yourself.
But I think that's probably the long and short of it?
Necromunda is different, group activation is an optional thing there. IIUC GA is mandatory in KT2 - the GW rep said in the KT2 video "If your Group Activation is more than two, you MUST activate both models together".
I haven't played KT2 myself yet, but I'm planning to use GA2 operatives always as a tag team: charging the same target twice (if the first charger survives. the second charger will get +1 to hit), shooting the same target twice (maximizing my chances of taking out the target before they have a chance to fire back), using one model to tie an enemy model into combat while the other model steal the objective, and so on... I'm sure there are many neat tricks one can learn to do with them.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/08/11 10:10:18
"The larger point though, is that as players, we have more control over what the game looks and feels like than most of us are willing to use in order to solve our own problems"
Oh you're right, it is mandatory. Interesting, interesting.
(Glass Half Dead has a run through of the core rulebook and Octarius campaign book, he talks about the major points but flicks through the rulebook so you can pause and read everything). The compendium is NDAed until Saturday.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/11 10:10:58
Compendium is the only thing you don't get in the box out of all the separate items.
You get dice in the box, just not those specific faction dice, but that doesn't appear to matter. This game doesn't use proprietary dice - thank Christ! - so it's just an aesthetic change.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/11 10:37:18
This is definitely my concern. The Krieg team and Kommando team seem like they would be a ton of fun to play and make for some pretty cinematic games. The rest of the factions just seem like "dude with autogun" and "dude with power sword." At least from the profiles they have shown. That's why I'm not picking up the compendium. To me the game looks like a lot of fun, but the compendium factions look uninteresting to play.
I am sincerely hoping we will get other factions with kits like the Krieg and Kommando kits. I also hope those those factions have their rules in their box and don't require another large box like Octarius. Which, like you said, wouldn't really surprise me.
While the people who have the Compendium now aren't supposed to talk about it, the vibe I get is that you are exactly right. As opposed to the loads of specialized figures in the box, the Compendium forces are generic. If true, that is a huge missed opportunity. It signals clearly GW is going to be dribbling out additional specific faction rules bit-by-bit, and that bugs me. I would guess, for example, we won't get Dark Eldar rules with lots of special pieces, but rather a sub-designation, like Slave Raid. So eventually you'll be able to either take the boring Dark Eldar generic list, or the fun Slave Raid list, but that will only come with a small team of models like the Veterans and the Ork Commandos in the Octarius box. I was planning on putting together a Sisters of Battle Team, but if my guess is right, then there is a huge dis-incentive to do that now. Better to wait and see what the cool list with interesting options will look like.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I've seen FOMO being waved around, when it really doesn't apply. Like, I do get black knighting but this one is categorically weird.
Dark Knighting. How many times?
Umbral Chivalcading. And I'd better not have to tell you this circle* times. Get your act together, man!
*Also, I need a new keyboard. I am woefully unprepared for this exciting new age.
Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone?
From what they say here, you can have a unit be active or passive, with only active units being able to shoot etc but passive units being untargetable while in cover.
So, this increases the ability for a unit to hide on a point at the cost of not shooting. Not sure about other actions yet but could be useful
To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.
Coven of XVth 2000pts
The Blades of Ruin 2,000pts Watch Company Rho 1650pts
Trimarius wrote: The A73 thing is nothing. Obviously that's just a space saving measure so that you can have an uplifting primer and a trench shovel (or whatever cool bits) instead of three identical right elbows. Remember, a guard squad in 40k can't have multiple specials, and that's undoubtedly where they're going to sell most of these kits.
The real worry is what he wasn't saying about the other armies. It really sounded like the non-octarius teams don't have the cool flavor and pseudo-specialists that make the dkk vets and kommandos interesting. Which would be a shame and dampen my interest. If 19/21 teams are "dude with bolter and nothing else" and "dude with meltagun and nothing else", it's going to be more than a bit bland.
In the beginning of the vid, he specifically stated that he cannot talk about the Compendium until 14th of August.
Yes, he's very pointed about that. So pointed that it's either intentionally leading us to the conclusion that the other teams aren't set up in the same way or he suddenly decided to become a terrible presenter. Which would be a shame.
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 
Coven of XVth 2000pts
The Blades of Ruin 2,000pts 
Watch Company Rho 1650pts
