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@Voss- Noise Marines are Core units in any army. RAW Noise Marines in EC would need to buy a mark even though they already have it according to their data sheet.

 DO IT TO IT wrote:
GW has stealth edited the article and removed the mention of Possessed from that paragraph I pasted above.

Hyuuuup.......they sure did. Well, I guess we don't have to waste any of our time looking for "bespoke wargear options", or extra pages explaining how <DAEMONKIN> just have to take Marks.

Wowzers. Yup. The buzz has definitely been harshed. No wonder it took so long to get any solid leaks for this book. No way gw were the ones doing the leaking this time.

I was expecting an error from Warhammer Community, but I sure still hoped it wouldn't be the case. *sigh*

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
@Voss- Noise Marines are Core units in any army. RAW Noise Marines in EC would need to buy a mark even though they already have it according to their data sheet.

No, they don't. They aren't UNDIVIDED units. You're trying to apply 'a must' to a condition that doesn't even exist.

When fielding a Battle-forged army composed of any Chaos Space Marines Detachments, you can upgrade any CHAOS UNDIVIDED CORE or CHARACTER choice with a malefic Mark of Chaos for the appropriate points or Power Rating cost.

If you could (or must) upgrade upgrades that you can't upgrade, a lot of books suddenly have all sorts of issues.

Hmmmm.

Possessed circa 2002ish



Their relevant Codex Chaos



Possessed in the modern day.



Dakkanauts, I put it to you in my most scientific study since I described how to ascertain whether or not the foe Like’s It Up ‘Em off bayonets, that Chaos can either have a Good Codex and Crap Possessed Models. Or Good Possessed Models and a Crap Codex.

This ends my TedTalk.

By Mad Doc Grotsnik, aged 42, IQ roughly 3 at this point.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Hmmmm.


Dakkanauts, I put it to you in my most scientific study since I described how to ascertain whether or not the foe Like’s It Up ‘Em off bayonets, that Chaos can either have a Good Codex and Crap Possessed Models. Or Good Possessed Models and a Crap Codex.

This ends my TedTalk.

By Mad Doc Grotsnik, aged 42, IQ roughly 3 at this point.

Still 3 more than gw ...

I dunno Grotsnik.

I think whether or not these Possessed are good models will depend entirely on whether they always look exactly like those 5 in the picture, or if there's some level of variation in their various apendages.

I reserve the right to boldly proclaim this an actual law. To be known as Grotsnik’s Wibbling.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I dunno Grotsnik.

I think whether or not these Possessed are good models will depend entirely on whether they always look exactly like those 5 in the picture, or if there's some level of variation in their various apendages.

Still better than the old old metal ones. Look at the Champion. His face and posture is that of an elderly person waving at the bus, carrying heavy shopping, only to see the callous driver ignore them and not stop.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
One on the right looks like a kid’s drawing of Kiss.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:
The opposite, actually.

Chaos!

No Sunny that's... that's... no. Just no.

Bro it's called Chaos it's the literal definition of the word just look in the dictionary bro.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Still better than the old old metal ones. Look at the Champion. His face and posture is that of an elderly person waving at the bus, carrying heavy shopping, only to see the callous driver ignore them and not stop.

I always wanted the Champion. He was actually a WYSIWYG Possessed Champ for back in those days. Sadly to get him you had to buy the rest and, well... no! Obviously no!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
One on the right looks like a kid’s drawing of Kiss.

I am unable to find it, but the one that looks like he's dancing (second from the left in your picture) was photoshopped alongside a woman fancing, making them look like they were doing the tango or something. It was amusing.

 blood reaper wrote:
Bro it's called Chaos it's the literal definition of the word just look in the dictionary bro.

Bro, like, bro, how can we not, bro? It's, like, bro, totally random, bro. Chaos = Random, afterall, bro.

Bro.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
One on the right looks like a kid’s drawing of Kiss.

I am unable to find it, but the one that looks like he's dancing (second from the left in your picture) was photoshopped alongside a woman fancing, making them look like they were doing the tango or something. It was amusing.

It’s as if they went for one of Slaine’s warp spasms.



But forgot the warp. And the m. Yes that does now sound like a term we probably shouldn’t use on Dakka.

Oh. And the talent. They forgot the talent too.

The Eye of Terror campaign sure was a wild time. Ugly Possessed. New Cadians. Mix'n'match Chaos Space Wolf kits to make 13th Company. I bought so many of those Lost & The Damned Mutant kitbash kits.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Still better than the old old metal ones. Look at the Champion. His face and posture is that of an elderly person waving at the bus, carrying heavy shopping, only to see the callous driver ignore them and not stop.

I always wanted the Champion. He was actually a WYSIWYG Possessed Champ for back in those days. Sadly to get him you had to buy the rest and, well... no! Obviously no!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
One on the right looks like a kid’s drawing of Kiss.

I am unable to find it, but the one that looks like he's dancing (second from the left in your picture) was photoshopped alongside a woman fancing, making them look like they were doing the tango or something. It was amusing.

 blood reaper wrote:
Bro it's called Chaos it's the literal definition of the word just look in the dictionary bro.

Bro, like, bro, how can we not, bro? It's, like, bro, totally random, bro. Chaos = Random, afterall, bro.

Bro.

I was of course being a bit facetious but it rocks there's people who are legitimately like this "Chaos is called Chaos so it's literally random - it makes sense the army has no consistency and has awkward, janky rules, because that's random?"

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Dakkanauts, I put it to you in my most scientific study since I described how to ascertain whether or not the foe Like’s It Up ‘Em off bayonets, that Chaos can either have a Good Codex and Crap Possessed Models. Or Good Possessed Models and a Crap Codex.

This ends my TedTalk.

By Mad Doc Grotsnik, aged 42, IQ roughly 3 at this point.

Hey, I would posit that the terrible metal dudes at least have character. I look at the 5 of them and I get an entire story.

They are a group of problematic bachelors who call themselves "The Squad". The photo which served as the basis for those models was taken on a particularly wild night out at the club in which their choreographed dance routine which sought to combine the eclectic styles of the heights of disco, dirty ballroom dancing, the haka, MJ's Thriller, and pub hooligan was a particular highlight. It is believed that a cocktail of drugs including, but not limited to, MDMA, cocaine, meth, ketamine, DMT and household solvents was involved.

I have fond and bitter memories of that time.

Fond

1. I had an actually fully painted, not kidding, and pretty massive Iron Warriors army

2. Said army not at all honest Guv funded by being a part-time GW till monkey (for the discount) whilst having a full time and reasonably playing job and living at home

3. A pretty decent gaming circle from running Veterans Nights (Tues and Thurs, cash-up at 8pm, but everyone sod off only when I can’t be arsed anymore and want me bed)

4. The blossom of yoof (not like that, dirty boy) which meant the perks of 3. were doable

Bitter

1. I planned a pretty intricate and groovy narrative campaign for Eye of Terror. Even managed to shoe-horn in reasons for other armies to take part

2. Set on St Josman’s Hope

3. St Josman’s Hope was all blown to destruction and deth in the first week. Possibly even the first day (look I’m knocking on a bit and that occurred so long ago some Dakkanauts weren’t even alive)

Yes. I Charlton Heston’d.

Actual archive footage of me reading the internet that one time.

Voss wrote:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
@Voss- Noise Marines are Core units in any army. RAW Noise Marines in EC would need to buy a mark even though they already have it according to their data sheet.

No, they don't. They aren't UNDIVIDED units. You're trying to apply 'a must' to a condition that doesn't even exist.

When fielding a Battle-forged army composed of any Chaos Space Marines Detachments, you can upgrade any CHAOS UNDIVIDED CORE or CHARACTER choice with a malefic Mark of Chaos for the appropriate points or Power Rating cost.

If you could (or must) upgrade upgrades that you can't upgrade, a lot of books suddenly have all sorts of issues.

We, Dreadfully Hopeful and I, are talking about an EC army. RAW all core units must pay for a mark of slaanesh. Noise Marines are core units therefore they must buy a mark of slaanesh. This has to happen even though they already have a mark of slaanesh on their data sheet. So it's the exact opposite of a BOGO in that this is buy 2 marks get 1 benefit.

 blood reaper wrote:

Spoiler:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Still better than the old old metal ones. Look at the Champion. His face and posture is that of an elderly person waving at the bus, carrying heavy shopping, only to see the callous driver ignore them and not stop.

I always wanted the Champion. He was actually a WYSIWYG Possessed Champ for back in those days. Sadly to get him you had to buy the rest and, well... no! Obviously no!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
One on the right looks like a kid’s drawing of Kiss.

I am unable to find it, but the one that looks like he's dancing (second from the left in your picture) was photoshopped alongside a woman fancing, making them look like they were doing the tango or something. It was amusing.

 blood reaper wrote:
Bro it's called Chaos it's the literal definition of the word just look in the dictionary bro.

Bro, like, bro, how can we not, bro? It's, like, bro, totally random, bro. Chaos = Random, afterall, bro.

Bro.

I was of course being a bit facetious but it rocks there's people who are legitimately like this "Chaos is called Chaos so it's literally random - it makes sense the army has no consistency and has awkward, janky rules, because that's random?"

And those people....wrote this codex.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:

Spoiler:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Still better than the old old metal ones. Look at the Champion. His face and posture is that of an elderly person waving at the bus, carrying heavy shopping, only to see the callous driver ignore them and not stop.

I always wanted the Champion. He was actually a WYSIWYG Possessed Champ for back in those days. Sadly to get him you had to buy the rest and, well... no! Obviously no!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
One on the right looks like a kid’s drawing of Kiss.

I am unable to find it, but the one that looks like he's dancing (second from the left in your picture) was photoshopped alongside a woman fancing, making them look like they were doing the tango or something. It was amusing.

 blood reaper wrote:
Bro it's called Chaos it's the literal definition of the word just look in the dictionary bro.

Bro, like, bro, how can we not, bro? It's, like, bro, totally random, bro. Chaos = Random, afterall, bro.

Bro.

I was of course being a bit facetious but it rocks there's people who are legitimately like this "Chaos is called Chaos so it's literally random - it makes sense the army has no consistency and has awkward, janky rules, because that's random?"

And those people....wrote this codex.

Possibly being that guy? But not really. But it’s in the Eye of the Beholder (not that one. That’s Bob. I mean Dave)…

I like Proper Random Chaos. Old style. All or nothing style. Realms of Chaos style. Where you could end up as a Daemon Prince with a Silly Voice, Silly Walk, a Pinhead (not the cool one) and Multi-Colour Skin.

I appreciate times have moved on where I have not. I still love those mental rules though.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:

Spoiler:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Still better than the old old metal ones. Look at the Champion. His face and posture is that of an elderly person waving at the bus, carrying heavy shopping, only to see the callous driver ignore them and not stop.

I always wanted the Champion. He was actually a WYSIWYG Possessed Champ for back in those days. Sadly to get him you had to buy the rest and, well... no! Obviously no!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
One on the right looks like a kid’s drawing of Kiss.

I am unable to find it, but the one that looks like he's dancing (second from the left in your picture) was photoshopped alongside a woman fancing, making them look like they were doing the tango or something. It was amusing.

 blood reaper wrote:
Bro it's called Chaos it's the literal definition of the word just look in the dictionary bro.

Bro, like, bro, how can we not, bro? It's, like, bro, totally random, bro. Chaos = Random, afterall, bro.

Bro.

I was of course being a bit facetious but it rocks there's people who are legitimately like this "Chaos is called Chaos so it's literally random - it makes sense the army has no consistency and has awkward, janky rules, because that's random?"

And those people....wrote this codex.

That is being much too generous. Nobody wrote this codex. The paper that would become the master copy of the rules was stuffed in a drawer with a load of old lead type with some ink left on them. The table in question was then transported, unsecured, in the back of a van taking part in an extreme off-road racing competition. The resultant mess of random printings on the paper which resulted would go on to become the Chaos Space Marines codex for 9th edition.

And the van driver? Tom Kirby.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

I like Proper Random Chaos. Old style. All or nothing style. Realms of Chaos style. Where you could end up as a Daemon Prince with a Silly Voice, Silly Walk, a Pinhead (not the cool one) and Multi-Colour Skin.

Or with alcoholism, a rabbit head and uncontrollable flatulence...

 Dryaktylus wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

I like Proper Random Chaos. Old style. All or nothing style. Realms of Chaos style. Where you could end up as a Daemon Prince with a Silly Voice, Silly Walk, a Pinhead (not the cool one) and Multi-Colour Skin.

Or with alcoholism, a rabbit head and uncontrollable flatulence...

Am….am I a Daemon Prince?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Possibly being that guy? But not really. But it’s in the Eye of the Beholder (not that one. That’s Bob. I mean Dave)…

I like Proper Random Chaos. Old style. All or nothing style. Realms of Chaos style. Where you could end up as a Daemon Prince with a Silly Voice, Silly Walk, a Pinhead (not the cool one) and Multi-Colour Skin.

I appreciate times have moved on where I have not. I still love those mental rules though.

Sure, but these rules don't do that either. This isn't a funny tables with silly results codex. Its a loyalist emulator with more restrictions but less consistency. And better tanks.
I know I said before this makes me think of a loyalist 2.0 codex, but I'd like to revise that statement: August loyalist PDF update. Chaos will get ~6 weeks of better stuff.

Leo-the_Rat wrote:We, Dreadfully Hopeful and I, are talking about an EC army

Yes, obviously.
But you're using a WarCom article that originally said that possessed can take icons to make a RAW argument that Noise Marines must pay to upgrade their Mark of Slaanesh to a Mark of Slaanesh. While refusing to acknowledge that Chaos Undivided Core is required to do an upgrade at all. By that same 'logic,' you can make the case that after they get their Mark of Slaanesh, you can also give them a Mark of Khorne.

While I'm one of the last people to make a 'wait and see' argument, you're very obviously arguing nonsense based on incomplete information (with a dash of unforced errors by the article writer). Maybe save the 'But, RAW...' arguments for after release (and the YMDC forum)

Watch all of this very justified criticism have negligible effort on sales, thus allowing Geedubs to get away with this with literally no consequences

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Watch all of this very justified criticism have negligible effort on sales, thus allowing Geedubs to get away with this with literally no consequences

Hence why someone theorized it's being released next to HH on purpose.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Watch all of this very justified criticism have negligible effort on sales, thus allowing Geedubs to get away with this with literally no consequences

Sure. But there isn't any reason it would. There are reasons GW (and lots of other companies) don't have their own forums, and one of those is not having an officially sanctioned home for criticism.

Customer-on-the-street won't know much beyond '9th edition codex'

Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Hence why someone theorized it's being released next to HH on purpose.

It does feel very buried. Without models is still very strange, though.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Watch all of this very justified criticism have negligible effort on sales, thus allowing Geedubs to get away with this with literally no consequences

Possibly, possibly not. I was going to preorder a number of the new units whether or not I was going to buy the codex, but now it looks like I might save my money beyond buying a single box of Possessed for Gal Vorbak. I'm sure there are at least a few other people who feel the same way, and given how niche this hobby is, it might not take all that buying people not buying the codex to cause GW to take note.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Watch all of this very justified criticism have negligible effort on sales, thus allowing Geedubs to get away with this with literally no consequences

Some of this criticism is based on incomplete information, but okay.

Saturday can't come soon enough if only for us be able to see the full mess.

Speaking of stuff we do know: Raptor Aspiring Champions not having access to the melee weapons list (whatever is on it) is rather pants. Not particularly excited by that one.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Dryaktylus wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

I like Proper Random Chaos. Old style. All or nothing style. Realms of Chaos style. Where you could end up as a Daemon Prince with a Silly Voice, Silly Walk, a Pinhead (not the cool one) and Multi-Colour Skin.

Or with alcoholism, a rabbit head and uncontrollable flatulence...

Am….am I a Daemon Prince?

You... drink alcohol?

Wha-Mu-077 wrote:Watch all of this very justified criticism have negligible effort on sales, thus allowing Geedubs to get away with this with literally no consequences

Most people buy models not rules, so with sales numbers alone they usually only see how (un)popular models are (either in design or price).

Voss wrote:
godless possessed for everyone, then.

Clearly they didn't go to church enough. Trying to be all cool with their Daemonic possessions and skateboards.

 Gert wrote:

Voss wrote:
godless possessed for everyone, then.

Clearly they didn't go to church enough. Trying to be all cool with their Daemonic possessions and skateboards.

*youth pastor voice* you know who else got mistreated by his dark master?