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 judgedoug wrote:
It's strange to me that the hull machine guns are what people don't like when they are infinitely more realistic (at least for steel-armor era tanks) than hull-mounted howitzers on an MBT.

I don't know. Personally, I learned a long time ago not to put fiddly bits onto GW tanks. Travel and Storage are never kind to sponsions, antenna, or pintle mounted weapons.

Is there a way to mount other heavy weapons on that back pintle, like a heavy Bolter, or a Multi-Melta? Front mounted weapon on tanks is always good to have a flamer, BTW. Stubbers are just the kind of weapon to make you waste rolls on.

 Pyroalchi wrote:
Might still be within the range normal for humans. Maybe the average Krieger is 1,70 m and the average Cadian more like 1,95 m

I smell the scent of copium.

 judgedoug wrote:
It's strange to me that the hull machine guns are what people don't like when they are infinitely more realistic (at least for steel-armor era tanks) than hull-mounted howitzers on an MBT.

I'd disagree, considering their location doesn't make them actual hull mounted MGs like you would typically see in a radio operator / assistant driver position. They're more like the fixed forward guns in the M2 Medium (and located in the transmission case no less).

A hull howitzer, however, was prevalent in many deployed infantry support tanks of WW2 (Char B1, M3 Medium, Stug B, Churchill MkI, etc etc).

As far as actual MBTs are concerned (Post '46), neither are used.

 Strg Alt wrote:

 Pyroalchi wrote:
Might still be within the range normal for humans. Maybe the average Krieger is 1,70 m and the average Cadian more like 1,95 m

I smell the scent of copium.

Maybe... Personally its more that I have tons of 3rd party "guardsmen" of varying height and that was always my explanation. Also it is kind of strange to think an army of trillions (or just billions? Not sure at the moment) would NOT have vast variation in body height. I mean when I was conscript my platoon ranged from 1,60 to 2,00 m, and we were drawn from a country of puny 80 million.

It seems all my new guard will be massive though, uniformly massive.

Hmmm. If the Kasrkin are larger than the shock troopers, I am ok with that- it is pretty common for grenadiers to be drawn from the biggest soldiers historically and I think this is also in Kasrkin lore.

If all the new Cadians are uniformly big then that is annoying and a missed opportunity to give some height variation to the range (I like a bit of variation in my models, looks natural).

The more I look at the Dorn, the more I have tw opinions that are quickly diverging.

I like it more and more, both as an in-universe concept, and as a model.

However, I also keep thinking more and more that it would have looked better as a Macharius with a Baneblade turret.

It might be me misremembering but IIRC in Cadian Blood, the Kasrkin are noted as being both tall and bulky compared to normal Cadians.
As always though, best to wait and see what reality brings. Feels like only a few months ago people were declaring the sky had fallen because the Mk6 models were far too big and that turned out just fine.

 Gert wrote:
It might be me misremembering but IIRC in Cadian Blood, the Kasrkin are noted as being both tall and bulky compared to normal Cadians.
As always though, best to wait and see what reality brings. Feels like only a few months ago people were declaring the sky had fallen because the Mk6 models were far too big and that turned out just fine.

Their Master Sergeant was, that much I remember, though I think it was also described as the Carapace Armor increasing their apparent bulk.

The new Cadians actually are the same height as first born marines... strange days in the Imperium.

Kasrkin have some minor biological augmentations. Some shots of growth hormone would fit that bill. That also makes it clear that they’re a different unit. Being viewed from a distance they could be mistaken for normal Cadians.

Does anyone have comparative pictures of the Kasrkin next to the new regular Guard?

I'm not worried about the scale creep of the new Cadians.
Even if the models were the same size, the infantry models won't be intermixed into any if my existing Guard forces. And any vehicles or the new field Artillery I do mix in will be re-crewed with Tallarns, Mordians, etc anyways.

And used on thier own? These nu-Cadian models will just represent a force raised on some planet where humans grow bigger.

Can someone spoiler tag the gigantic photos please?

In my armies, particularly historical ones, I have a bit of size difference between the figures because they're from a ton of different manufacturers and it looks good to have some differences. These however are very big and remain uniformly big, which makes them look a bit odd next to other units that are uniformly shorter. But then again, I don't really want to go for the Cadian look anyways so that shouldn't be an issue.

A user named 30kfanatic posted a good comparison over on twitter.

Steve

I have also found a couple shots out there with them next to the old Kasrkin and they look in scale to those, which allays my fears somewhat. Still mostly interested in how the regular guys size up against Admech and the new traitor guard.

 Dawnbringer wrote:
I have also found a couple shots out there with them next to the old Kasrkin and they look in scale to those, which allays my fears somewhat. Still mostly interested in how the regular guys size up against Admech and the new traitor guard.

Can you please post these?

Here, from Reddit

 Dawnbringer wrote:
Here, from Reddit

Hmmm. If only the plastics would have more shooting poses......I'd gladly sell my metal Kasrkin for the money to buy the plastics. I think I have around 80 to a 100 of them.

As it is, I will hopefully be able to mix in the plastic special weapons Kasrkin in.....

 judgedoug wrote:
It's strange to me that the hull machine guns are what people don't like when they are infinitely more realistic (at least for steel-armor era tanks) than hull-mounted howitzers on an MBT.

The M3 Lee/Grant tank in WWII had 75mm hull cannons and 37mm in turrets.

We also have to remember that the Rogal Dorn isn't a "normal" main battle tank, the thing is huge. It's more like a Maus than a Tiger, and the Maus did have a design variant with a hull cannon.

Do we know the new base-sizes for the Sentinels an new artillery models?

Time for me to order some new bases, might as well orde those as I'll be using third party Artillery pieces (from Mortiantank with Victoria Miniatures crew).

 Singleton Mosby wrote:
Do we know the new base-sizes for the Sentinels an new artillery models?

Time for me to order some new bases, might as well orde those as I'll be using third party Artillery pieces (from Mortiantank with Victoria Miniatures crew).

I'm pretty sure it was said the new artillery comes on 100mm bases.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
It's strange to me that the hull machine guns are what people don't like when they are infinitely more realistic (at least for steel-armor era tanks) than hull-mounted howitzers on an MBT.

The M3 Lee/Grant tank in WWII had 75mm hull cannons and 37mm in turrets.

Spoiler:

It did, but I think the point being made is that the Grant isn’t an MBT, as they only came in post war.

 Haighus wrote:
Hmmm. If the Kasrkin are larger than the shock troopers, I am ok with that- it is pretty common for grenadiers to be drawn from the biggest soldiers historically and I think this is also in Kasrkin lore.

Plus the Imperium actually has the technology to boost height and muscle. I can't imagine they'd be squimish about filling their elite troops with some steroids or sci-fi equivalents.

On a more practical level, in 3rd edition it was good that Marines and Catachans (our only plastic IG option) were more or less compatible, allowing for head, weapon and arm swaps at a time when there weren't a lot of bits out there. I wonder if that could be the reason IG sizes keep pace with Marines, even though there is a lot more out there now.

The Lee/Grant, same as the StuG were the result of armies needing bigger guns very fast but the industry had not figured out yet how to put them in a small turret yet
(So thy put the available guns in the hull of available vehicles to have something, as soon as development was done they were replaced)

So unless the Imperium was under pressure to design the Dorn, and than retro fitted the turret on leftovers, it makes not much sense

 kodos wrote:
The Lee/Grant, same as the StuG were the result of armies needing bigger guns very fast but the industry had not figured out yet how to put them in a small turret yet
(So thy put the available guns in the hull of available vehicles to have something, as soon as development was done they were replaced)

So unless the Imperium was under pressure to design the Dorn, and than retro fitted the turret on leftovers, it makes not much sense

As I pointed out before, the Dorn isn't exactly a MBT, it's a small superheavy. It's scaled more with superheavy tanks from the WWII era.

 kodos wrote:
The Lee/Grant, same as the StuG were the result of armies needing bigger guns very fast but the industry had not figured out yet how to put them in a small turret yet
(So thy put the available guns in the hull of available vehicles to have something, as soon as development was done they were replaced)

So unless the Imperium was under pressure to design the Dorn, and than retro fitted the turret on leftovers, it makes not much sense

The Imperium is all about "this is how we've been doing it for 10,000 years and I see no reason to change things today".

That is and always has been the canon explanation for WWI style tanks in the grim darkness of the far future and I don't see why it would not apply to WWII style tanks.

If anything I dislike the primaris tanks because they step so far from the retrotech of 40k.

 cuda1179 wrote:


As I pointed out before, the Dorn isn't exactly a MBT, it's a small superheavy. It's scaled more with superheavy tanks from the WWII era.

I mean, 40k vehicle scaling is all over the place. Compared to the crew it is comparable to an MBT, but compared to other 40k vehicles it is definitely on the large size. (Based on photos seen)