10th Edition Rumour Roundup - in the grim darkness of the far future, there are only power levels

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**Tsagualsa**

For those interested in the leaked document, i took the trouble to boil the ~1500 lines of text down to a more readable 150, removing a lot of convoluted examples, off-topic waffling and stuff that is likely to change anyway or of little relevance like the naming conventions for matched play and such. I also rearranged some things to make for more coherent reading.

You can find the condensed version here: https://pastebin.com/tJ83wiJx
or behind this spoiler:

Spoiler:

Any errors or omissions are of course entirely mine.

An additional observation that might be relevant: several other rumours have mentioned the starter box being called 'Vigil of Blood' - that exact wording shows up exactly once in the original leaked document, but from the context it seems clear to me that this is not in fact related to Warhammer at all, but some of-topic remark among the two parties in the original chat that has to do with a campaign of 'Vampire: the Masquerade' that one of them is involved in.

**Eldarsif**

Thanks for the writeup.

Still have a hard time believing any of this is real.

**Tsagualsa**

Eldarsif wrote:
Thanks for the writeup.

Still have a hard time believing any of this is real.

I even did it twice, because i was dumb enough to accidentally delete the first writeup in the one specific way that would not allow any recovery, while literally thinking 'you must now take care not to accideentally delete this'

**lord_blackfang**

Someone really went to the effort of faking a new edition yet again, huh. With changes about as sweeping as Pancake.

**kodos**

They only reason this is likely to be fake is that it sounds like a thought thru and working game, rather than the usual mess we get from GW

While on the other hand it us mostly copy&paste from various other games, which would make it legit (and copy game mechanics without understanding why they are used in the first place is the main problem with GW rules)

A full reset and brand new game just with the old IP is what keeps 40k alive, another edition of 8th/9th would not work (as people have enough and want something else) hence it would be legit

The style of the original document is more like a fake, unless someone made an audio transcript of an interview that was recorded to be released before 10th (unlikely but possible)

**Tsagualsa**

lord_blackfang wrote:
Someone really went to the effort of faking a new edition yet again, huh. With changes about as sweeping as Pancake.

I can't really put a finger on any of it, but after close-reading all that for summarizing* it just feels fake. I got the distinct feeling that much of it was made up on the go during the chat, but i can't say why. Anyway, more reputable rumourmongers have chimed in and said that 'something similar' to this was possible, but that can mean a lot of things really.

*

Spoiler:

**kodos**

lord_blackfang wrote:
Someone really went to the effort of faking a new edition yet again, huh. With changes about as sweeping as Pancake.

would really be the first time

Other fake edition in the past were house rules used by clubs or larger gaming groups that ame around and treated as leaks by people not knowing them

"We" (from another forum back than) did this on purpose once, simple to check how long it takes until our own house rules are reported back as rules leaks (14 days)

**Davor**

Thank you Tsagualsa for the write up. I thank you twice. :p

**NAVARRO**

Davor wrote:
Thank you Tsagualsa for the write up. I thank you twice. :p

Yep thanks for keeping track of all the crazy rumours going at the moment.

**Tsagualsa**

Davor wrote:
Thank you Tsagualsa for the write up. I thank you twice. :p

One the one hand, i'm still a bit foggy in the head from being down with Corona for a couple of weeks, which probably made me do this brainfart, but on the other hand a nice little brain fog makes such mindnumbing tasks easily bearable

Lord Nurgle taketh and lord Nurgle giveth

**Asmodai**

It seems like the cover for the 10th ed. Box will be a big decider between sets of rumours.

If it's Ultramarines in Terminator Armour, we can safely discard Scaramouche and about 90% of the other non-Valrak rumours.

If it's Blood Angels with Jump Packs, then the odds of the rest of the Scaramouche stuff is much higher.

**themonk**

kodos wrote:
They only reason this is likely to be fake is that it sounds like a thought thru and working game, rather than the usual mess we get from GW

I think the same as well. Its surpising elegant and definitely cuts down on sheer number of dice rolls. You don't have know much about your opponents army to get a shooting or fight phase done either. Just compare keywords and start determining "advantage/disadvantage" and then your dice pool.

I really like the turn phase sequencing and being able to run a unit through all phases with a unit activation. All movement is done during movement to include charges. You can then choose to fight first and then shoot. You can even move before shooting. Pistol weapons become more relevant.

**JWBS**

Are they showing the box cover today?

**Tsagualsa**

JWBS wrote:
Are they showing the box cover today?

No. They revealed two Battletomes for AoS, the next AoO book and the models for Snikrot and Farsight, and that's very probably all for today. They have not yet publicly acknowledged that 10th edition is even coming at this point, not even in unambiguous teasers.

**Theophony**

We’ve all had pancake edition already, is this one destined to be flapjack edition or pig in a poke edition?

**Platuan4th**

Theophony wrote:
We’ve all had pancake edition already, is this one destined to be flapjack edition or pig in a poke edition?

Hard to say, considering 9th is basically waffle edition.

**privateer4hire**

Theophony wrote:
We’ve all had pancake edition already, is this one destined to be flapjack edition or pig in a poke edition?

Wow. Pig in a poke reference 😁

**terennNash**

Cutting down the dice rolls is fine if its just pairing back the volume thats rolled at once, but the whole advantage/disadvantage comparison sounds like an absolute hassle.

Requiring you to have a spreadsheet handy to constantly check the rock paper scissors of everything taking you out of the game every time you want to shoot or fight.

you would have situations like my army lacks Rapid fire which means i am permanently at a disadvantage against an army that leans heavily on whatever keyword beats that; sounds very, very feelsbad.

**drbored**

"- To calculate Advantage/Disadvantage compare Hit traits with enemy Evade traits
- Pairings are Rapid Fire/Dodge, Tracker/Speed, True Grit/Jinx, Seeker/Obscured, Pulse/Flicker
- Unnegated Evade traits give Disadvantage
- Two Glances to Hit are one success
- Determine damage before saves
- Armour saves are fixed, modified by Advantage/Disadvantage
- Compare Armour traits with Penetrate traits to calculate Advantage/Disadvantage
- Pairings are Armored/Penetrating, Shielded/Fusion, Aegis/Infused, Artificer/Killshot"

Utterly false.

Before any of y'all come in here and say some gak like 'You get used to it! it's USRs!' absolutely not. You're adding MORE bookkeeping into the dice rolls than less, where every time you attack you have to compare these traits from your datasheet to your opponents and see what lines up and cancels out, and then figure out if you have one or more levels of advantage/disadvantage that you then have to keep track of as you roll to pair up dice to see how many of your 'glances' become hits? And THEN you have to do the same thing for saves???

Absolute fiction.

**Mchagen**

kodos wrote:
They only reason this is likely to be fake is that it sounds like a thought thru and working game, rather than the usual mess we get from GW

This sounds like convoluted nonsense, not a 'thought-thru and working game.' But to each their own I suppose.

**tneva82**

kodos wrote:
They only reason this is likely to be fake is that it sounds like a thought thru and working game, rather than the usual mess we get from GW

While on the other hand it us mostly copy&paste from various other games, which would make it legit (and copy game mechanics without understanding why they are used in the first place is the main problem with GW rules)

A full reset and brand new game just with the old IP is what keeps 40k alive, another edition of 8th/9th would not work (as people have enough and want something else) hence it would be legit

The style of the original document is more like a fake, unless someone made an audio transcript of an interview that was recorded to be released before 10th (unlikely but possible)

You say wouldnjt work yet track record shows you to be wrong.

Meanwhile tournament players being required to bring 2 sets of terrain is hard sell. And whether gw survives without tournament whales is dubious.

Also no evidence thlse rules work...

**Twilight Pathways**

Another worry beyond the absolute ridiculousness of the alleged rules, the two different game modes for casual and tournaments, having to use your own terrain every time (?!), and being forced into using an app during the game (gross!), is the bit about games being *much shorter*.

Don't get me wrong, sometimes games drag on a bit and they could definitely be tidied up and streamlined. But currently 'a game' is usually (unless someone gets tabled turn 2) 'an evening's entertainment' and feels like a fairly meaty endeavour. To have games streamlined to the point only taking an hour or so feels a bit lightweight? Yeah you could play 2 games but I'm not sure it will be as satisfying.

**Tsagualsa**

---- Super Sunday Analysis, Go! ----

Since Rumours are being slow and the OP is updated for now, today i'm gonna do a bit of analysis.

Namely, i'm presenting a selection of already known rumours and argueing that they all derive from the sameoriginal source, which is the large document that got brought to our attention by RoyRobHobGob.
If this is true, it could of course mean only two things: either the bulk of it is true, or a lot of the rumours we've been presented by now derive from the same fake and we'd need to reevaluate the lot of it.
As always, i'm first pretending the facts as they're currently known to us, and then my personal conclusion. This is all guesswork, so please do not feel attacked if i call things fake or made-up: in all cases, this strictly means the rumours itself and is not directed against the people that bring them to our attention! Rumour season is a game, and you can't blame people for having a go at it.

First, the rumours that i think are directly related:

02/07/2023

Spoiler:

02/16/2023 'The mystery Pastebin'

Spoiler:

02/17/2023 'A wild rumourmonger appears!'

Spoiler:

02/20/2023 'If you see one, there's another'

Spoiler:

02/21/2023 'Disgruntled on Discord'

Spoiler:

02/21/2023 'Bolter and Chainsword strike again'

Spoiler:

02/26/2023 'The one with the wayward pdf'

Spoiler:

The last one is of course the large document.

I marked in Green stuff that could be directly taken from the big document or summarized from it.
I marked in Red the specific mention of a box called 'Vigil of Blood' because that on is the most damning in my view: it appeared exactly once in the large document, and from the context it's clear to me that it's not Warhammer-related, but concerns the Vampire: the Masquerade group of one of the people that are having the original chat, so everything that took up exactly this phrase is probably taken from the .pdf and has added their own made-up stuff to it.

**Dudeface**

Great effort thank you

**Eldarsif**

I find psychic and command phase combined to be very likely. AoS already has magic and command phase combined and I don't see 40k would be any different.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

I’ll believe this when I see it.

No disrespect to those on Dakka sharing them, but it’s feeling like Open Season rumours wise.

**bullyboy**

So, how about that blurb in the WHC article? “ The Dark Angels aren’t taking this invasion lightly, and rally their forces as a mysterious third party enters the slaughter.”
Probably the Lion waking up to save the Rock.

**Lord Damocles**

Or they're going to re-re-re-release Fallen rules!

**Flinty**

Or it turns out that the Watchers in the Dark are actually an obscure clone skein of the Votann, amd the bottom level of the Rock has actually been building Land Trains for the past 10,000 years.

And they all suddenly pull the robes off and BAM! Motherdogs! No one expects the dwarfish inquisition!

**Tsagualsa**

Lord Damocles wrote:
Or they're going to re-re-re-release Fallen rules!

Unless they somehow snuck an entire new faction beyond the radar of literally every rumour monger and outlet to the point that we don't even have hints only a couple of months from release, it's probably not half as mysterious as the hype-text is trying to make you believe.

At the end it will be something like the Lion hanging around with the Legion of the Damned, some random Eldar on an inscrutable mention, a handful of Custodes that happend to bum around the webway or an intervention by the Watchers in the Dark.