Tyran wrote: Wouldn't it be nice if out Gargantuan creatures were priced like the Wraithknight?
I would prefer it if the WK was priced like a gargantuan creature.
I can see why it is so cheap. Our gargantuan creatures were priced in an age where gargantuan creatures were strong and the only real threat was massed lascannons or massed poisoned weapons.
But now there are far more common and far more stronger Destroyers weapons, and don't forget grav weapons and fleshbane weapons.
Tyran wrote: Wouldn't it be nice if out Gargantuan creatures were priced like the Wraithknight?
I would prefer it if the WK was priced like a gargantuan creature.
I can see why it is so cheap. Our gargantuan creatures were priced in an age where gargantuan creatures were strong and the only real threat was massed lascannons or massed poisoned weapons.
But now there are far more common and far more stronger Destroyers weapons, and don't forget grav weapons and fleshbane weapons.
That's not even remotely logical. It doesn't matter what the surrounding conditions are.If there are more grav guns around this should affect the meta and not a unit's price. This means that the more gravs are used the less WK's we should see, then shift to light armored armies that would in turn make the gravs useless and therefore less used etc etc etc. A unit's cost should never be calculated with the meta shifting in mind. It would only consider the things this particular unit brings to the table. The things a WK brings to the battle cost way way too much more than it's price.
Assuming Swarmy doesn't get shot the hell up before getting into combat, there are 2 scenarios:
1) Against a shooty WK, Swarmy has a decent chance to beat him. This is assuming, of course, that he can make it into combat at full health.
2) Against the CC WK, Swarmy will most likely lose.
Against a shooty WK: Supposing Swarmy charges with adrenal glands and also gives monster hunter to himself:
Strikes with 6 attacks on a 3+, gets 4 hits in, then needs 5's to wound with a reroll. Let's give him two wounds , which will deal d3 wounds to the WK if it fails it's invul save. Even if the WK loses both saves, this is an average of 4 wounds. Then the WK strikes back with 4+/2+. Can't remember how many attacks, I will suppose 5 of them. So if the shooty WK goes unlucky he inflicts 1 wound on the Swarmy pass its 4++ and then stomp ensues which can do a ton of different things. So if everything goes to swarmlord's favorand IF it manages to charge a 12" moving GMC with it's 6" movement, then it still won't kill it, and since GMC's cannot be locked in combat the WK can just leave and blast the swarmlord from range before charging back in for the lols.
The tyranid close combat ultimate unit cannot even beat a shooting WK in close combat if everything goes to the tyranid player's favor. And these two are similarly costed. Yeah.
Assuming Swarmy doesn't get shot the hell up before getting into combat, there are 2 scenarios:
1) Against a shooty WK, Swarmy has a decent chance to beat him. This is assuming, of course, that he can make it into combat at full health.
2) Against the CC WK, Swarmy will most likely lose.
Against a shooty WK: Supposing Swarmy charges with adrenal glands and also gives monster hunter to himself:
Strikes with 6 attacks on a 3+, gets 4 hits in, then needs 5's to wound with a reroll. Let's give him two wounds , which will deal d3 wounds to the WK if it fails it's invul save. Even if the WK loses both saves, this is an average of 4 wounds. Then the WK strikes back with 4+/2+. Can't remember how many attacks, I will suppose 5 of them. So if the shooty WK goes unlucky he inflicts 1 wound on the Swarmy pass its 4++ and then stomp ensues which can do a ton of different things. So if everything goes to swarmlord's favorand IF it manages to charge a 12" moving GMC with it's 6" movement, then it still won't kill it, and since GMC's cannot be locked in combat the WK can just leave and blast the swarmlord from range before charging back in for the lols.
The tyranid close combat ultimate unit cannot even beat a shooting WK in close combat if everything goes to the tyranid player's favor. And these two are similarly costed. Yeah.
1. Swarmy does not have Adrenal Glands. He can give himself Furious Charge but not both FC and Monster Hunter. In this case, it's better to give him MH because usually it will be the WK who will get the charge.
2. Shooty WK's have no Invuln's unless someone casts Forewarning on him.
3. WS4 vs WS9. WK hits on a 5+.
4. GMC's can be locked in combat. Swarmy has a great chance to kill the shooty-WK on the 2nd turn of assault....assuming he doesn't get stomped to death first.
Tyran wrote: Wouldn't it be nice if out Gargantuan creatures were priced like the Wraithknight?
I would prefer it if the WK was priced like a gargantuan creature.
I can see why it is so cheap. Our gargantuan creatures were priced in an age where gargantuan creatures were strong and the only real threat was massed lascannons or massed poisoned weapons.
But now there are far more common and far more stronger Destroyers weapons, and don't forget grav weapons and fleshbane weapons.
That's not even remotely logical. It doesn't matter what the surrounding conditions are.If there are more grav guns around this should affect the meta and not a unit's price. This means that the more gravs are used the less WK's we should see, then shift to light armored armies that would in turn make the gravs useless and therefore less used etc etc etc. A unit's cost should never be calculated with the meta shifting in mind. It would only consider the things this particular unit brings to the table. The things a WK brings to the battle cost way way too much more than it's price.
The Wraithknight is undercosted, but there is no way to justify a cost like our gargantuan creatures, who are blatantly overcosted.
Assuming Swarmy doesn't get shot the hell up before getting into combat, there are 2 scenarios:
1) Against a shooty WK, Swarmy has a decent chance to beat him. This is assuming, of course, that he can make it into combat at full health.
2) Against the CC WK, Swarmy will most likely lose.
Against a shooty WK: Supposing Swarmy charges with adrenal glands and also gives monster hunter to himself:
Strikes with 6 attacks on a 3+, gets 4 hits in, then needs 5's to wound with a reroll. Let's give him two wounds , which will deal d3 wounds to the WK if it fails it's invul save. Even if the WK loses both saves, this is an average of 4 wounds. Then the WK strikes back with 4+/2+. Can't remember how many attacks, I will suppose 5 of them. So if the shooty WK goes unlucky he inflicts 1 wound on the Swarmy pass its 4++ and then stomp ensues which can do a ton of different things. So if everything goes to swarmlord's favorand IF it manages to charge a 12" moving GMC with it's 6" movement, then it still won't kill it, and since GMC's cannot be locked in combat the WK can just leave and blast the swarmlord from range before charging back in for the lols.
The tyranid close combat ultimate unit cannot even beat a shooting WK in close combat if everything goes to the tyranid player's favor. And these two are similarly costed. Yeah.
1. Swarmy does not have Adrenal Glands. He can give himself Furious Charge but not both FC and Monster Hunter. In this case, it's better to give him MH because usually it will be the WK who will get the charge.
2. Shooty WK's have no Invuln's unless someone casts Forewarning on him.
3. WS4 vs WS9. WK hits on a 5+.
4. GMC's can be locked in combat. Swarmy has a great chance to kill the shooty-WK on the 2nd turn of assault....assuming he doesn't get stomped to death first.
1. In my area Mc's are allowed to take biomorphs according to their types (we did this when the white dorf stuff came out). So MH it is then.
2. I am quite sure a WK can have 1 x cannon + shield for a 5+ inv + blind nova, am I mistaken?
3. Isn't WK weapon skill 5? This indeed changes a lot.
4. Yup, right.
2. I am quite sure a WK can have 1 x cannon + shield for a 5+ inv + blind nova, am I mistaken?
If you're running the suncannon over the regular heavy D-cannons, then you are missing out. My only rebuttal is this....convert your model back to the base guns NOW!
Ratius wrote:How did you get wings on him Kroot? I have 3 of them. Or are you footsloggin?
Found some random wings in my bitz box, sawed them in half and put them on his back.
astro_nomicon wrote:
krootman. wrote: Everyone ready for nova? I just got my 2nd ed hive tyrant ready to go
Hahaha I have a 2nd ed Tyrant as well but I've never used it 'cause it feels dirty.
Heres a size comparison for my flyrants. The goal was to use one from each ed. (1 2nd, 1 3rd, 1 4th, and 2 or 3 5th ed ones with wings depending on which list I use).
Excuse the paint job its literally white prime with washes, never really wanted to paint bugs so I just painted them with an obnoxious wash that would be event legal, that would be easy to paint over someday...and that was 4 years ago and the army just keeps getting larger lol.
Ok yeah I could see using him with a scenic base. Totally gonna do that to up to 4 Flyrants! Just wish I had the right models for a supporting ensemble :( and I aint got no moneys to spend on 'Nids right now.
If I didn't have to travel so far for NOVA, I would have brought my bugs. But because I do, I'm bringing an army that will fit in my carry-on. Unfortunately, that won't be my bugs.
Honestly, I'm not sure how I'm going to play against my Round #1 Invitational opponent, who is bringing Eldar.
If I get past Eldar, Round #2 I'm most likely going up against Nick Nanavati's Daemons. If I somehow get past him, there is a chance that I can play against krootman and his bugs. And if I manage to take that match, then Alan "Pajamapants" is potentially waiting for me there. And if by some miracle, I get past all of those guys, I am looking at a Finals potentially against Tony Kopach or Nick Rose.
Man, it's going to be a tough tournament. I'm not sure if I'll even make it past Round #1.
astro_nomicon wrote:Ok yeah I could see using him with a scenic base. Totally gonna do that to up to 4 Flyrants! Just wish I had the right models for a supporting ensemble :( and I aint got no moneys to spend on 'Nids right now.
Ha the entire bug portion of the army is flyrants, mucloids, and a malenthrope lol
jy2 wrote:If I didn't have to travel so far for NOVA, I would have brought my bugs. But because I do, I'm bringing an army that will fit in my carry-on. Unfortunately, that won't be my bugs.
I have new respect to people from the west who have to fly models out to all their events. I did it for the first time at last yrs lvo and it was a huge pain in the ass. (I have my models driven to adepticon every yr)
I am so happy I can drive to every event on the east coast lol
Iechine wrote: Sounds good man, I'll try to keep track of you as I've been reading your batreps for years.
I'm taking a gaks and giggles list and seeing how well I can do with it, Im not experienced enough to set sights on bigger goals just yet.
No worries, just have fun. I'm feeling anxious because the NOVA Invitational is one of the most competitive tournaments around. It's by invite-only and almost everyone there has won something or at the very least have done consistently well in the tournament scene.
BTW, I've been rocking with my bugs lately. My BAO bugs have won 2 RTT's in a row (after the BAO) and I've shot up in the ITC standings. They haven't counted my 2nd win yet, but after they do, I might potentially be ranked 2nd both in Tyranids and Overall as well, trailing only Geoff "iNcontrol" Robinson, who is the current leader (both for Tyranids and Overall).
jy2 wrote:If I didn't have to travel so far for NOVA, I would have brought my bugs. But because I do, I'm bringing an army that will fit in my carry-on. Unfortunately, that won't be my bugs.
I have new respect to people from the west who have to fly models out to all their events. I did it for the first time at last yrs lvo and it was a huge pain in the ass. (I have my models driven to adepticon every yr)
I am so happy I can drive to every event on the east coast lol
Thanks. If it weren't for my going on vacation directly after NOVA, I might have considered it. But I really don't want to lug my bugs throughout Europe after NOVA. Lol.
Iechine wrote: Sounds good man, I'll try to keep track of you as I've been reading your batreps for years.
I'm taking a gaks and giggles list and seeing how well I can do with it, Im not experienced enough to set sights on bigger goals just yet.
No worries, just have fun. I'm feeling anxious because the NOVA Invitational is one of the most competitive tournaments around. It's by invite-only and almost everyone there has won something or at the very least have done consistently well in the tournament scene.
BTW, I've been rocking with my bugs lately. My BAO bugs have won 2 RTT's in a row (after the BAO) and I've shot up in the ITC standings. They haven't counted my 2nd win yet, but after they do, I might potentially be ranked 2nd both in Tyranids and Overall as well, trailing only Geoff "iNcontrol" Robinson, who is the current leader (both for Tyranids and Overall).
Yup, I'm running a different army for the invitational and the open. Should make for an interesting weekend. what seed are you in the invitational?
Hey Sean! I'm surprised you didn't participate in the Invitational.
Yeah, I figured he was running the seer council. It isn't really the council that has me concerned. Rather, it's those warp spiders, their unlimited Flickerjumps and those large BLOS terrain that they have at NOVA.
Hey Sean! I'm surprised you didn't participate in the Invitational.
Yeah, I figured he was running the seer council. It isn't really the council that has me concerned. Rather, it's those warp spiders, their unlimited Flickerjumps and those large BLOS terrain that they have at NOVA.
They only have unlimited flicker jumps if you keep shooting at them, just get close enough with gates and charge them next turn. Or ignore them and drop the rest of the list first.
Honestly, I'm not sure how I'm going to play against my Round #1 Invitational opponent, who is bringing Eldar.
If I get past Eldar, Round #2 I'm most likely going up against Nick Nanavati's Daemons. If I somehow get past him, there is a chance that I can play against krootman and his bugs. And if I manage to take that match, then Alan "Pajamapants" is potentially waiting for me there. And if by some miracle, I get past all of those guys, I am looking at a Finals potentially against Tony Kopach or Nick Rose.
Man, it's going to be a tough tournament. I'm not sure if I'll even make it past Round #1.
I'm actually doing cent star too, unfortunately I locked into my original pick, gladius..like a week before I realized its bad in the current meta...soooo f it let's see how it goes
Hey Sean! I'm surprised you didn't participate in the Invitational.
Yeah, I figured he was running the seer council. It isn't really the council that has me concerned. Rather, it's those warp spiders, their unlimited Flickerjumps and those large BLOS terrain that they have at NOVA.
They only have unlimited flicker jumps if you keep shooting at them, just get close enough with gates and charge them next turn. Or ignore them and drop the rest of the list first.
Where abouts in Europe are you touring?
Highly unlikely that I will be able to gate and then charge them. They're just too fast and my deathstar isn't. I will, however, focus on what I can kill....which will be the rest of the army.
I'm going to Prague. Would love to re-visit the UK....especially since I will have my army with me....but not this time.
Honestly, I'm not sure how I'm going to play against my Round #1 Invitational opponent, who is bringing Eldar.
If I get past Eldar, Round #2 I'm most likely going up against Nick Nanavati's Daemons. If I somehow get past him, there is a chance that I can play against krootman and his bugs. And if I manage to take that match, then Alan "Pajamapants" is potentially waiting for me there. And if by some miracle, I get past all of those guys, I am looking at a Finals potentially against Tony Kopach or Nick Rose.
Man, it's going to be a tough tournament. I'm not sure if I'll even make it past Round #1.
I'm actually doing cent star too, unfortunately I locked into my original pick, gladius..like a week before I realized its bad in the current meta...soooo f it let's see how it goes
Good luck buddy. I can't say with confidence that we will meet in the Invitational, but who knows. See you there.
I been running Null type list since the T-cysts dropped and I have had some issues having a good unit to clear my back field of drop pods mostly. I been looking at the Toxicrene and the haruspex lately.
The Toxicrene is good at handling the troops that come out nd can get lucky and kill a pod with its shooting or one smash attack. It just to unreliable to kill them. Vs troops that pop out he eats really well.
Haruspex has been called a failure. I thought the same intel recently. Used to defend and count attack he does a surprising mount of damage and tend to heal himself half the time. I have found he eats drop pods really well and Vs they type of infantry that gets dropped in he reliable handle them.
Charging the Toxicrene first and then the Haruspex makes mulch of most units that come in.
I have found single units of Hive guard are decent at killing pods with crushing claws and adrenal Glands. Downside is they are Pricy at 70-75 points each depending on how your equip them.
My back field has normally been a mal or venom-throup, shrikes maybe a teravgon with Claws( Not bad at pods but is a target because of synapse)
SO your thoughts on the units above or units you have found to be good in this role.
Hey Sean! I'm surprised you didn't participate in the Invitational.
Yeah, I figured he was running the seer council. It isn't really the council that has me concerned. Rather, it's those warp spiders, their unlimited Flickerjumps and those large BLOS terrain that they have at NOVA.
They only have unlimited flicker jumps if you keep shooting at them, just get close enough with gates and charge them next turn. Or ignore them and drop the rest of the list first.
Where abouts in Europe are you touring?
Highly unlikely that I will be able to gate and then charge them. They're just too fast and my deathstar isn't. I will, however, focus on what I can kill....which will be the rest of the army.
I'm going to Prague. Would love to re-visit the UK....especially since I will have my army with me....but not this time.
Honestly, I'm not sure how I'm going to play against my Round #1 Invitational opponent, who is bringing Eldar.
If I get past Eldar, Round #2 I'm most likely going up against Nick Nanavati's Daemons. If I somehow get past him, there is a chance that I can play against krootman and his bugs. And if I manage to take that match, then Alan "Pajamapants" is potentially waiting for me there. And if by some miracle, I get past all of those guys, I am looking at a Finals potentially against Tony Kopach or Nick Rose.
Man, it's going to be a tough tournament. I'm not sure if I'll even make it past Round #1.
I'm actually doing cent star too, unfortunately I locked into my original pick, gladius..like a week before I realized its bad in the current meta...soooo f it let's see how it goes
Good luck buddy. I can't say with confidence that we will meet in the Invitational, but who knows. See you there.
I been running Null type list since the T-cysts dropped and I have had some issues having a good unit to clear my back field of drop pods mostly. I been looking at the Toxicrene and the haruspex lately.
The Toxicrene is good at handling the troops that come out nd can get lucky and kill a pod with its shooting or one smash attack. It just to unreliable to kill them. Vs troops that pop out he eats really well.
Haruspex has been called a failure. I thought the same intel recently. Used to defend and count attack he does a surprising mount of damage and tend to heal himself half the time. I have found he eats drop pods really well and Vs they type of infantry that gets dropped in he reliable handle them.
Charging the Toxicrene first and then the Haruspex makes mulch of most units that come in.
I have found single units of Hive guard are decent at killing pods with crushing claws and adrenal Glands. Downside is they are Pricy at 70-75 points each depending on how your equip them.
My back field has normally been a mal or venom-throup, shrikes maybe a teravgon with Claws( Not bad at pods but is a target because of synapse)
SO your thoughts on the units above or units you have found to be good in this role.
The Haruspex is, generally speaking, one of our weaker units. It's slow, has the same T6/3+ defences that most of our beasts do (and in today's world it's just not enough) and it has little impact on the game until it gets into melee.
That said, it does have things going for it. If engaged against non-elite melee units, it can killa couple a turn and regenerate a wound. It is also one of our more reliable ways of opening vehicles up in melee. Lastly, it has a bit of a derpy reputation and this can work to its advantage by being ignored.
You cannot drop a Haruspex into any old list and expect great results. If you see yourself struggling with a particular problem though (for instance backfield Drop Pods) then a Haruspex in a Tyrannocyte might be exactly what you need. It will open those Drop Pods up with little difficulty, and should be a daunting prospect for most MEQ units (particularly once the Tyrannocyte has softened them up). If you're not facing Drop Pods you can always be aggressive with it too, and hurl it at some sort of fortified position (less optimal, but still something that a parking lot is going to avoid at all costs).
I have a question on the Tervigon. I do not own one yet, but am considering getting it in the near future.
Currently, I am running CAD+Endless Swarm. I could tweak my existing list if I used the Tervigon as a second HQ. If I want to use the Tervigon as Troops, I would need to move the Endless Swarm units into the CAD so I can combine the Termagants into a single, 30-Gaunt squad.
Which is better to have? Essentially infinitely-spawning Gaunts, or a ObSec Tervigon? Alternatively, if I am running the Endless Swarm, does that make the Tervigon obsolete and I would be better looking at a different purchase?
Elric of Grans wrote: I have a question on the Tervigon. I do not own one yet, but am considering getting it in the near future.
Currently, I am running CAD+Endless Swarm. I could tweak my existing list if I used the Tervigon as a second HQ. If I want to use the Tervigon as Troops, I would need to move the Endless Swarm units into the CAD so I can combine the Termagants into a single, 30-Gaunt squad.
Which is better to have? Essentially infinitely-spawning Gaunts, or a ObSec Tervigon? Alternatively, if I am running the Endless Swarm, does that make the Tervigon obsolete and I would be better looking at a different purchase?
It looks like you like gants. If you like gants, probably running more gants is the way to go.
the Tervigon write up is pretty spot on, but overall in your list it might rate higher. Here are the questions I would ask myself before deciding whether to run it:
1. Do your gants get assaulted such that they would benefit from counter attack?
2. How many other MC wounds do I have?
3. Do I already have part three of the trinity (Venomthropes)?
4. What type of vehicles to I run up against?
As to how to run it, whether as troop or HQ, most people don't run it as an HQ because the slot is filled with flyrants, but I think it is viable in the HQ slot. Still the questions I would ask myself are:
1. Do I need to outfklank it?
2. Is there room for a pod also?
3. Does your play group count spawned units (from the tervigon or ES) as scoring units?
I used two as dedicated HQs in a genesteeler list with a broodlord as the warlord. It was not terribly effective (with the exception of spesspuppies which it ate). I think that my experience with the unit has more to do with genesteelers performance issues. At a minimum the units did not work as well together as I had hoped. Still, in a list that is already running plenty of gants, and in a meta where spawned gants are performing well and can hold objectives, it should work. I would say toss it in as an HQ.
Also I totally have an extra one I am willing to trade for a used carnifex (though it is haggered).
Elric of Grans wrote: I have a question on the Tervigon. I do not own one yet, but am considering getting it in the near future.
Currently, I am running CAD+Endless Swarm. I could tweak my existing list if I used the Tervigon as a second HQ. If I want to use the Tervigon as Troops, I would need to move the Endless Swarm units into the CAD so I can combine the Termagants into a single, 30-Gaunt squad.
Which is better to have? Essentially infinitely-spawning Gaunts, or a ObSec Tervigon? Alternatively, if I am running the Endless Swarm, does that make the Tervigon obsolete and I would be better looking at a different purchase?
Well, for one thing, I assume you have well over 30 gaunts to use with the Tervigon, because you'll probably be creating a lot more bodies. Assuming this is the case, you don't actually have to choose between a Troops Tervi and being able to field Endless Swarm- the clause saying you can field a Tervigon as Troops is simply that you have "one unit of 30 termagaunts in your ARMY" - you can run 2x10 and 1x30 in the swarm and you're allowed to stick the Tervi in as Troops in your CAD. Whilst this means needing more gaunt models, you get the best of both - huge respawning broods of gaunts and obsec MCs.
Assuming you don't have the models for that, I think it's perfectly legitimate to run a Tervi in HQ if you have the space, it's still a solid unit. However, I'd probably suggest either running a pod for it so it can spawn further upfield or running the Miasma cannon, as it might get left out of the action. Troops is obviously more threatening in terms of objectives, but otherwise its the same unit, though you can give it outflank for cheaper than a pod.
the clause saying you can field a Tervigon as Troops is simply that you have "one unit of 30 termagaunts in your ARMY"
while the GWfaqs are horribly outdated, the date on the last Tyranid on is after the date of the codex, and it clearly indicates scuttling swarm applies to units within the same detachment.
the clause saying you can field a Tervigon as Troops is simply that you have "one unit of 30 termagaunts in your ARMY"
while the GWfaqs are horribly outdated, the date on the last Tyranid on is after the date of the codex, and it clearly indicates scuttling swarm applies to units within the same detachment.
Ahhh damn, my bad! I did read that ages ago, but didn't put two and two together as to what they were ruling out...
Has anyone got any tips on how to beat Necrons with a short Nid list? I understand they're much easier to take out in combat, but the only decent combat unit I have in my list is a Carnifex with TLDevs (unless you count a Tervigon or Flyrants).
I got deeestroyed all weekend, I'll do a summary but I only went 2-4, dropped the last day like most people did and just hung out with my family at the event which was a lot of fun.
Iechine wrote: I got deeestroyed all weekend, I'll do a summary but I only went 2-4, dropped the last day like most people did and just hung out with my family at the event which was a lot of fun.
Your family was wonderful, it was awesome meeting them.
Not sure how many bug players were there overall. I was the only bug list in top bracket. Not sure where the rest ended up.
I was the number one seed going into round 5 when they split the players into brackets. Lost to someone playing nick (browns) daemon list on tie breakers :( had it won on 5, game went to 6 lol. Then lost to zachs seers in relic, hammer and anvil deployment (that mission and deployment vs that army is almost impossible, the fact that I scored 11 points was a miracle. ) was pretty exausted at that point, 9 games in 3 days, so I dropped the last 2 rounds and finished 15th out of 184.
Trying to look up the results on torrent of fire and I'm having trouble. Don't think they are up yet. I went 3-1 in the opening games which was loads better than last year and was scraping at the top bracket with 66/76 the first 4 games.
Apparently after Day1, there was score colluding by some of the top players to get 17 to 18 points with a loss so they were staying on the top tables. There was a public announcement trying to warn people from doing it, but by that time, the brackets were already in. Really puts a sour taste in your mouth from a player newer to GTs.
That being said, I have a BLAST this year. All 7 (left early) of my opponents were fantastic. I would have played anyone of them again!!
Saythings wrote: Trying to look up the results on torrent of fire and I'm having trouble. Don't think they are up yet. I went 3-1 in the opening games which was loads better than last year and was scraping at the top bracket with 66/76 the first 4 games.
Apparently after Day1, there was score colluding by some of the top players to get 17 to 18 points with a loss so they were staying on the top tables. There was a public announcement trying to warn people from doing it, but by that time, the brackets were already in. Really puts a sour taste in your mouth from a player newer to GTs.
That being said, I have a BLAST this year. All 7 (left early) of my opponents were fantastic. I would have played anyone of them again!!
That was a rumor, the judges actually went over all the scores to make sure, and there were only 3 19 to 18 victories in the entire event. I had 2 19 17s (one on the stream). Bugs bleed points
I've been thinking about making a Tyranid Army for about a year now and have finally decided to take the plunge.
I care more about themed armies and having fun rather than being competitive but I would like to be at least viable against other fun lists
I've begun work on a 1k army that contains:
Old One Eye
Mucolid Troop Tax
5-spore Meiotic Spore Brood
3x Sporocyst w/ deathspitters
2x Maxed Sporefield Formations
Now I have a few questions for those who have used these units before -
Spore Mines
1. I know they're squishy as anything and are slow. Therefore how easy is it to get these into combat and so to explode on the enemy?
2. Do they get wrecked by Overwatch and die on the charge, necessitating something to soak overwatch first?
Mucolids
1. I know they're three wounds and have shrouded but in reality how much do they seem to take on the table, can they soak a round of fire or two from infantry units or do they just flop?
2. How effective are they really for their supposed AA role, do you have to use a full brood of 3 to guarantee an air kill?
3. Deepstrike or Float-slog(+infiltration with the sporefield mucolids), Deepstriking forces you to do nothing for a turn but infiltration/ Float-slogging takes time and you're vulnerable to both... so what's best?
Meiotic
1. They're basically heavy flamer blasts that can drop spore mines if they miss but how effective are they in practice?
2. Is the 12" scatter extremely inhibitive or is surrounding your enemy with small groups of spore mines actually viable?
Sporocysts
1. Do you treat them as a vehicle for firing arcs or as a monstrous creature? They're classed as a monstrous creature and yet are immobile and so shouldn't be able to get weapons to fire 360 from those spots on its body.
2. Is the 15pt spawn every turn enough to help with board control or is it just a pathetic drop that means feth all considering how slow the mines are?
3. In practice, how much fire do the Sporocysts draw? Do enemy players feel threatened by them and focus them or are they ignored etc.?
Otto, mines in all favors are mostly effective at choking off movement and limiting lanes. With sporocyst backup, this can get pushed to absurd levels. However, they don't do much else, including damage. Enough of them will make some charges and do damage, but you're going to need other elements as well. Flyrants are an obvious choice, while you could also get a little goofy and use gaunts with malanthrope backup to draw units into danger zones and collapse waves of mines on them.
Agreed. Mines aren't really there to kill the enemy.
I know that sounds daft, but bear with me:
A basic mine unit (of either flavour) is only 15 points and either uses a slot we don't need much (fast attack) or counts towards compulsory slots (troops). In addition it never gives away victory points and can't help us with objectives. This means the unit is utterly expendable.
Don't worry about whether the mines actually get to go off. If a 15 point unit can draw fire from a 200+ point unit for a turn, it's done its job.
As a result, use more than one mine cluster for each target unit. You're quite right that a single mine cluster charging a unit will just die to overwatch.....but no-one is forcing you to charge. Unlike hormagaunts or rippers, there's no instinctual imperative driving you on. Just float around, 1" away. If he wants to move the unit, he's got to shoot you off the board then wait for next turn to move into the space you occupied, or else charge you and let the mines go off. If anything does charge the unit, charge in with the mines as well, and either he's stuck letting the mines go off or losing overwatch on a nasty melee threat.
I picked up on using mines for board control with an overlord swarm recently and they're great - mucolids especially, because they're big enough to provide the big guys with cover, even from firers on a hill or in an elevated position. Plus - scary area denial for flyers.
Tervigons beat endless swarms into a cocked hat for two reasons; firstly the spawned unit is spawned in the midfield (or even your opponent's deployment zone) and secondly there are few things in any army which can match the durability of a T6, Sv3+, W6 monster with a decent chance of Feel No Pain dug into cover - stack that with Objective Secured and whilst Tervigons don't kill much, they do board control really, really well - that's the key to a bughouse swarm type tyranid list; flyrants and mawlocs are the killers of a hive fleet, but gaunts, mines and tervigons can flood the board to the point that an enemy army has nowhere to go.
Combine tervigons and tyrannocytes and you can suddenly find a part of the enemy's deployment zone swarming with bugs.
The one way an Endless swarm can compete is with tyrgon(s) in support - once you have a trygon tunnel on the other side of the board you can 'express-line' reinforcements into the enemy's position. I'm still not convinced it's a great plan, though.
I'm not sure how a null deploy list would work - without drop pod assault (or equivalent) the tyrannocyte is good for reserves but not for an alpha strike. Maybe living artillery in the backfield with venomthrope cover?
Living Artillery Node
Hypertoxic Node
Combined Arms Detatchment/Leviathan Detachment
The Hypertoxic Node gives you a Tyrant - take wings and maybe the Miasma Cannon instead of one devourer set to benefit from the special rules. The Venomthrope broods give you decent cover for the living artillery. The Toxicrene goes in a tyrannocyte from the Leviathan Detachment.
The troops are either mines or gaunts to provide bubblewrap for the artillery, and you can drop tervigons and tyrannofex, toxicrene or haruspex by spore into the enemy lines alongside the toxicrene.
Tyranid null deployment would require a bastion with comms relay, a venomthrope inside and a tyrant guard on top of the bastion. Stick this in the corner of the table.
topaxygouroun i wrote: Tyranid null deployment would require a bastion with comms relay, a venomthrope inside and a tyrant guard on top of the bastion. Stick this in the corner of the table.
What mission format are you trying to null deploy for?
Iechine wrote: I got deeestroyed all weekend, I'll do a summary but I only went 2-4, dropped the last day like most people did and just hung out with my family at the event which was a lot of fun.
Your family was wonderful, it was awesome meeting them.
Hey thanks man, glad I took your advice and chilled the last day.
Coming into my first major Tournament was an amazing experience. It was super cool meeting everyone at NOVA this year. For my first Tournament with a slightly modified Lictorshame Tyranid list, I went down a very sad 0-5 drop. I think with enough practice, I could have done a lot better, seeing as I spent the majority of August painting and not playing it all makes sense. I made it to Tier One painting, Second round judging, considering I spent the last four days before NOVA painting the majority of my army and I'm more of a painter than a player, I consider that super high praise and a MAJOR victory. Thanks to all of you for telling me how cool my army looked, it's nothing compared with Lechine's, but that's really what made my weekend.
@FTGT - Dope meeting you Evan, I hope we cross paths again soon.
@JY_2 - Thanks for schooling me with CentStar. I'll know a lot better next time I face it.
@Lechine - Thanks for sharing that army, they are simply my favorite looking Tyranids. They're so much cooler in person. I hope you find a better recipe for your wings than "plasticard and tears".
The three of you, if you ever find yourselves in the NYC area, feel free to PM me, look me up. I'd love to play some casuals at my FLGS and drink with you guys.
Coming into my first major Tournament was an amazing experience. It was super cool meeting everyone at NOVA this year. For my first Tournament with a slightly modified Lictorshame Tyranid list, I went down a very sad 0-5 drop. I think with enough practice, I could have done a lot better, seeing as I spent the majority of August painting and not playing it all makes sense. I made it to Tier One painting, Second round judging, considering I spent the last four days before NOVA painting the majority of my army and I'm more of a painter than a player, I consider that super high praise and a MAJOR victory. Thanks to all of you for telling me how cool my army looked, it's nothing compared with Lechine's, but that's really what made my weekend.
@FTGT - Dope meeting you Evan, I hope we cross paths again soon.
@JY_2 - Thanks for schooling me with CentStar. I'll know a lot better next time I face it.
@Lechine - Thanks for sharing that army, they are simply my favorite looking Tyranids. They're so much cooler in person. I hope you find a better recipe for your wings than "plasticard and tears".
The three of you, if you ever find yourselves in the NYC area, feel free to PM me, look me up. I'd love to play some casuals at my FLGS and drink with you guys.
I saw your army at the judging table. It looked great!
Coming into my first major Tournament was an amazing experience. It was super cool meeting everyone at NOVA this year. For my first Tournament with a slightly modified Lictorshame Tyranid list, I went down a very sad 0-5 drop. I think with enough practice, I could have done a lot better, seeing as I spent the majority of August painting and not playing it all makes sense. I made it to Tier One painting, Second round judging, considering I spent the last four days before NOVA painting the majority of my army and I'm more of a painter than a player, I consider that super high praise and a MAJOR victory. Thanks to all of you for telling me how cool my army looked, it's nothing compared with Lechine's, but that's really what made my weekend.
@FTGT - Dope meeting you Evan, I hope we cross paths again soon.
@JY_2 - Thanks for schooling me with CentStar. I'll know a lot better next time I face it.
@Lechine - Thanks for sharing that army, they are simply my favorite looking Tyranids. They're so much cooler in person. I hope you find a better recipe for your wings than "plasticard and tears".
The three of you, if you ever find yourselves in the NYC area, feel free to PM me, look me up. I'd love to play some casuals at my FLGS and drink with you guys.
I saw your army at the judging table. It looked great!
Thanks a million, Krootman! Evan told me about your list when I saw him watching at the Invitational Final Table on Sunday morning, I wanted to get back to the tables on Sunday to watch it in action, but Roman Lappat was teaching a Metals and Leather Seminar. Loved that list! I can't wait to start playing with Six Flyrants + Random CAD against my friends, just to make them cry. Hehe.
Coming into my first major Tournament was an amazing experience. It was super cool meeting everyone at NOVA this year. For my first Tournament with a slightly modified Lictorshame Tyranid list, I went down a very sad 0-5 drop. I think with enough practice, I could have done a lot better, seeing as I spent the majority of August painting and not playing it all makes sense. I made it to Tier One painting, Second round judging, considering I spent the last four days before NOVA painting the majority of my army and I'm more of a painter than a player, I consider that super high praise and a MAJOR victory. Thanks to all of you for telling me how cool my army looked, it's nothing compared with Lechine's, but that's really what made my weekend.
@FTGT - Dope meeting you Evan, I hope we cross paths again soon.
@JY_2 - Thanks for schooling me with CentStar. I'll know a lot better next time I face it.
@Lechine - Thanks for sharing that army, they are simply my favorite looking Tyranids. They're so much cooler in person. I hope you find a better recipe for your wings than "plasticard and tears".
The three of you, if you ever find yourselves in the NYC area, feel free to PM me, look me up. I'd love to play some casuals at my FLGS and drink with you guys.
I saw your army at the judging table. It looked great!
Thanks a million, Krootman! Evan told me about your list when I saw him watching at the Invitational Final Table on Sunday morning, I wanted to get back to the tables on Sunday to watch it in action, but Roman Lappat was teaching a Metals and Leather Seminar. Loved that list! I can't wait to start playing with Six Flyrants + Random CAD against my friends, just to make them cry. Hehe.
Thanks man, it did pretty well. A lot of people were confused at 6 flyrants not 5. The daemon summoning really put it over the top. It gave bugs the ground presence they were lacking, and allowed me the ability to keep my flyrants in the air and not on objectives.
Coming into my first major Tournament was an amazing experience. It was super cool meeting everyone at NOVA this year. For my first Tournament with a slightly modified Lictorshame Tyranid list, I went down a very sad 0-5 drop. I think with enough practice, I could have done a lot better, seeing as I spent the majority of August painting and not playing it all makes sense. I made it to Tier One painting, Second round judging, considering I spent the last four days before NOVA painting the majority of my army and I'm more of a painter than a player, I consider that super high praise and a MAJOR victory. Thanks to all of you for telling me how cool my army looked, it's nothing compared with Lechine's, but that's really what made my weekend.
@FTGT - Dope meeting you Evan, I hope we cross paths again soon.
@JY_2 - Thanks for schooling me with CentStar. I'll know a lot better next time I face it.
@Lechine - Thanks for sharing that army, they are simply my favorite looking Tyranids. They're so much cooler in person. I hope you find a better recipe for your wings than "plasticard and tears".
The three of you, if you ever find yourselves in the NYC area, feel free to PM me, look me up. I'd love to play some casuals at my FLGS and drink with you guys.
I saw your army at the judging table. It looked great!
Thanks a million, Krootman! Evan told me about your list when I saw him watching at the Invitational Final Table on Sunday morning, I wanted to get back to the tables on Sunday to watch it in action, but Roman Lappat was teaching a Metals and Leather Seminar. Loved that list! I can't wait to start playing with Six Flyrants + Random CAD against my friends, just to make them cry. Hehe.
Thanks man, it did pretty well. A lot of people were confused at 6 flyrants not 5. The daemon summoning really put it over the top. It gave bugs the ground presence they were lacking, and allowed me the ability to keep my flyrants in the air and not on objectives.
Coming into my first major Tournament was an amazing experience. It was super cool meeting everyone at NOVA this year. For my first Tournament with a slightly modified Lictorshame Tyranid list, I went down a very sad 0-5 drop. I think with enough practice, I could have done a lot better, seeing as I spent the majority of August painting and not playing it all makes sense. I made it to Tier One painting, Second round judging, considering I spent the last four days before NOVA painting the majority of my army and I'm more of a painter than a player, I consider that super high praise and a MAJOR victory. Thanks to all of you for telling me how cool my army looked, it's nothing compared with Lechine's, but that's really what made my weekend.
@FTGT - Dope meeting you Evan, I hope we cross paths again soon.
@JY_2 - Thanks for schooling me with CentStar. I'll know a lot better next time I face it.
@Lechine - Thanks for sharing that army, they are simply my favorite looking Tyranids. They're so much cooler in person. I hope you find a better recipe for your wings than "plasticard and tears".
The three of you, if you ever find yourselves in the NYC area, feel free to PM me, look me up. I'd love to play some casuals at my FLGS and drink with you guys.
I saw your army at the judging table. It looked great!
Thanks a million, Krootman! Evan told me about your list when I saw him watching at the Invitational Final Table on Sunday morning, I wanted to get back to the tables on Sunday to watch it in action, but Roman Lappat was teaching a Metals and Leather Seminar. Loved that list! I can't wait to start playing with Six Flyrants + Random CAD against my friends, just to make them cry. Hehe.
Thanks man, it did pretty well. A lot of people were confused at 6 flyrants not 5. The daemon summoning really put it over the top. It gave bugs the ground presence they were lacking, and allowed me the ability to keep my flyrants in the air and not on objectives.
Batreps?
I think one of my games were on the tof stream. Ill be testing some changes to the list pre bfs (tho I wont be able to make it this year) Ill take notes for a bat rep.
For nova format (bfs) there are 2 lists ill be trying out
Both are levi levi daemon allies
List 1 is
6 flyrants, malenthrope, 6 mucloids 2 heralds of Tzeench on discs lvl 1 and a unit of 10 horrors.
The lvl 2 hot on foot was kind of a waste most games I still cant figure out for the life of me why I never considered putting both of them on discs.
list 2 is
6 flyrants, malenthrope, 6 mucloids 2 heralds of Tzeench on discs lvl 1 and 2 units of nurglings.
The pinks were giving up a lot of points in the 2ndaries in nova and they were hard to hide. I am hoping 2 units of nurglings will be much easier to hide. Gives me 1 less dice and only 2 lvl 1 hearlds to summon off but I feel like it could be more difficult to get 2ndareis from.
@krootman, I literally just made a list of my Battlescribe app this morning in response to my Nova list that resembles your new list. xD
5 Flyrants, 5 Spores, 2 ML3 Heralds of Discs (1 with Exalted reward), 11 Horrors, and 8 Screamers.
My lack of ground presence at Nova was concerning. I even had a Tervigon and 30 gants to start with. But she usually ended up spawning gants as bubble wraps and sitting in a corner to deny Marked for Death or kill all enemy troops.
997Turbo wrote: Please refrain from flaunting our Six Flyrant/Daemon love child all over the internet Krootman.
Moannnnnnnnnnn
I'm just taking what was 75% your idea (that you also did all the testing for) and taking all the credit for it since I finished higher then you
Turoxxxxxxxxxxx
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Saythings wrote: @krootman, I literally just made a list of my Battlescribe app this morning in response to my Nova list that resembles your new list. xD
5 Flyrants, 5 Spores, 2 ML3 Heralds of Discs (1 with Exalted reward), 11 Horrors, and 8 Screamers.
My lack of ground presence at Nova was concerning. I even had a Tervigon and 30 gants to start with. But she usually ended up spawning gants as bubble wraps and sitting in a corner to deny Marked for Death or kill all enemy troops.
I tried a 5 flyrant list with fatey and more daemons, but found I needed the firepower of 6 flyrants. Let me know how your list does!
Here's a major reason why 6-flyrants don't work IMO....Ravenwing. Go up against true Ravenwing or even the semi-RW build with TWC allies and flyrant-spam will have a hard time. RW might not be as common yet in the NOVA format, but i guarantee you that they will dominate in the ITC format.
jy2 wrote: Here's a major reason why 6-flyrants don't work IMO....Ravenwing. Go up against true Ravenwing or even the semi-RW build with TWC allies and flyrant-spam will have a hard time. RW might not be as common yet in the NOVA format, but i guarantee you that they will dominate in the ITC format.
You still have e grubs and vector strikes to get the no cover hits, and 6 flyrants can probably push through with those depending on the list they are running.
jy2 wrote: Here's a major reason why 6-flyrants don't work IMO....Ravenwing. Go up against true Ravenwing or even the semi-RW build with TWC allies and flyrant-spam will have a hard time. RW might not be as common yet in the NOVA format, but i guarantee you that they will dominate in the ITC format.
You still have e grubs and vector strikes to get the no cover hits, and 6 flyrants can probably push through with those depending on the list they are running.
Egrubs and VS is just not reliable enough. Assuming you can hit 3 bikes with Egrubs, it'll take you 2 flyrants just to kill 1 biker with it. VS is slightly more reliable, wit the flyrant netting .67W per VS. With 6 flyrants, that is 4 dead bikes a turn, assuming no FNP or invuln saves from characters. However, the problem with either methods is that it can take the flyrant grossly out of position in 1 turn, thus forcing them to either fly off or to possibly go into Glide mode in order to turn around.
Finally you run into the problem of board control (or rather, the lack of) in the ITC format. Keep in mind that there will be NO daemon summoning Tyranids in the ITC. Honestly i'm having a rather tough time building a 6-flyrant list in the ITC format.
jy2 wrote: Here's a major reason why 6-flyrants don't work IMO....Ravenwing. Go up against true Ravenwing or even the semi-RW build with TWC allies and flyrant-spam will have a hard time. RW might not be as common yet in the NOVA format, but i guarantee you that they will dominate in the ITC format.
This new super friend build was very popular at ATC. It's kind of broken.
I am sorry this is getting crazy The list Now revolve around 6 Flyrants and is considered competitive play? I can't believe we are even calling this a tactic!!!! Last year 5 was questionable and being jerk. Now its a must to be competitive really...????
This is not even playing the codex it's more like playing AoS40k style with war-scrolls.
We are already seeing armies with 6+ unit of drop centurions. The codex's are starting to be played with only the best unit in each codex. This is really sad. It's not 40k anymore it Codex best unit.
Raven wing is a hard counter to flyrants spam.
If the 2+ re-roll is allowed you should just shake hands and say good by. The volume of fire from the raven wing should kill a tyrant or two a game. All that twin-linked plasma just eats you alive. Or mass grave units.
I like the ITC, but I have a feeling that the Ard'boys style of play that is developing is going to hurt the hobby more then not.
I hate my self for saying this but I think some form of comp will have to happen in the future with GW rule development style.
Sorry playing VS just 6 Tyrants, spores, and maybe Mawlocs. Is not playing Tyranids. As playing VS Multi centerions drop list is not playing SM.
It is boring to play VS these armies as you either have the counter or you don't. Their is no stratagem involved here. No real skill.
Coming into my first major Tournament was an amazing experience. It was super cool meeting everyone at NOVA this year. For my first Tournament with a slightly modified Lictorshame Tyranid list, I went down a very sad 0-5 drop. I think with enough practice, I could have done a lot better, seeing as I spent the majority of August painting and not playing it all makes sense. I made it to Tier One painting, Second round judging, considering I spent the last four days before NOVA painting the majority of my army and I'm more of a painter than a player, I consider that super high praise and a MAJOR victory. Thanks to all of you for telling me how cool my army looked, it's nothing compared with Lechine's, but that's really what made my weekend.
@FTGT - Dope meeting you Evan, I hope we cross paths again soon.
@JY_2 - Thanks for schooling me with CentStar. I'll know a lot better next time I face it.
@Lechine - Thanks for sharing that army, they are simply my favorite looking Tyranids. They're so much cooler in person. I hope you find a better recipe for your wings than "plasticard and tears".
The three of you, if you ever find yourselves in the NYC area, feel free to PM me, look me up. I'd love to play some casuals at my FLGS and drink with you guys.
I appreciate it a lot man, I was blown away by how well my army was received at NOVA and it makes the effort and time spent on it worth it.
It was great hanging out with all of you, I've been posting here since I started 40k and Tyranids so it's always great to meet everyone in person.
Automatically Appended Next Post: NOVA left me wanting to try something new. I've essentially used the same list since Killadelphia. I told Jim at NOVA that I wasnt going to be buying anything new till a new dex, and I've already managed to fail at that by buying 15 Warriors off ebay to field this list.
Flyrant w/Reaper, ScyTal, Adrenal, Old Adversary Electroshock
Tyrants are responsible for 2+ threats and heavier vehicles, Shrikes gang up on everything else. I initially had Rending Claws on the shrikes as well, allowing them to also target 2+ armor and heavier AV, but that means less Shrikes and striking at I4. Venomthropes sprint into the center to give cover bubbles to the paper thin Shrike armor.
An alternative to this looks the same as a Leviathan, but 3 units of 5/4/4 shrikes. I think the MSU nature of this one works better, but what do you all think?
TL/DR, I'm sick of Dakkaflyrants and gants, running a wannabe Tyranidkin army.
Coming into my first major Tournament was an amazing experience. It was super cool meeting everyone at NOVA this year. For my first Tournament with a slightly modified Lictorshame Tyranid list, I went down a very sad 0-5 drop. I think with enough practice, I could have done a lot better, seeing as I spent the majority of August painting and not playing it all makes sense. I made it to Tier One painting, Second round judging, considering I spent the last four days before NOVA painting the majority of my army and I'm more of a painter than a player, I consider that super high praise and a MAJOR victory. Thanks to all of you for telling me how cool my army looked, it's nothing compared with Lechine's, but that's really what made my weekend.
@FTGT - Dope meeting you Evan, I hope we cross paths again soon.
@JY_2 - Thanks for schooling me with CentStar. I'll know a lot better next time I face it.
@Lechine - Thanks for sharing that army, they are simply my favorite looking Tyranids. They're so much cooler in person. I hope you find a better recipe for your wings than "plasticard and tears".
The three of you, if you ever find yourselves in the NYC area, feel free to PM me, look me up. I'd love to play some casuals at my FLGS and drink with you guys.
Hey Brian.
Wow, you picked quite a tournament for your 1st event to attend. It is one of the most competitive 40K events around! I'm glad you were able to enjoy yourself despite the "education" you received there.
Honestly I felt a little bad playing against you. My army was meant to compete at the top tables but a little bad luck here and a mistake there put me in the lower tables. I felt a little dirty running my list there but still, i don't pull any punches in such an event. Besides, that is probably the best way for newer players to learn to play. In any case, sorry for the schooling but i'm glad you didn't take it personally.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
shadowfinder wrote: I am sorry this is getting crazy The list Now revolve around 6 Flyrants and is considered competitive play? I can't believe we are even calling this a tactic!!!! Last year 5 was questionable and being jerk. Now its a must to be competitive really...????
This is not even playing the codex it's more like playing AoS40k style with war-scrolls.
We are already seeing armies with 6+ unit of drop centurions. The codex's are starting to be played with only the best unit in each codex. This is really sad. It's not 40k anymore it Codex best unit.
Raven wing is a hard counter to flyrants spam.
If the 2+ re-roll is allowed you should just shake hands and say good by. The volume of fire from the raven wing should kill a tyrant or two a game. All that twin-linked plasma just eats you alive. Or mass grave units.
I like the ITC, but I have a feeling that the Ard'boys style of play that is developing is going to hurt the hobby more then not.
I hate my self for saying this but I think some form of comp will have to happen in the future with GW rule development style.
Sorry playing VS just 6 Tyrants, spores, and maybe Mawlocs. Is not playing Tyranids. As playing VS Multi centerions drop list is not playing SM.
It is boring to play VS these armies as you either have the counter or you don't. Their is no stratagem involved here. No real skill.
Spam has always existed and will always continue to so. However, i think there is a point where spamming will exceed a certain threshold where the army actually becomes less efficient the more of the same unit you add to it. Personally i draw the line at Pentyrants. Any more and it becomes just too much of a RPS build to be able to consistently win a GT.
jy2 wrote: Here's a major reason why 6-flyrants don't work IMO....Ravenwing. Go up against true Ravenwing or even the semi-RW build with TWC allies and flyrant-spam will have a hard time. RW might not be as common yet in the NOVA format, but i guarantee you that they will dominate in the ITC format.
This new super friend build was very popular at ATC. It's kind of broken.
It's not as bad in the ITC format, where the deathstar can only attempt 1 of the same psychic powers. But in the ATC/NOVA format where you can have seer councils casting 5 Psychic Shrieks or where you can cast Invisibility again after your first psyker botches casting it (assuming the unit has 2 psykers with Invis), it just becomes bonkers.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Iechine wrote: NOVA left me wanting to try something new. I've essentially used the same list since Killadelphia. I told Jim at NOVA that I wasnt going to be buying anything new till a new dex, and I've already managed to fail at that by buying 15 Warriors off ebay to field this list.
Flyrant w/Reaper, ScyTal, Adrenal, Old Adversary Electroshock
Tyrants are responsible for 2+ threats and heavier vehicles, Shrikes gang up on everything else. I initially had Rending Claws on the shrikes as well, allowing them to also target 2+ armor and heavier AV, but that means less Shrikes and striking at I4. Venomthropes sprint into the center to give cover bubbles to the paper thin Shrike armor.
An alternative to this looks the same as a Leviathan, but 3 units of 5/4/4 shrikes. I think the MSU nature of this one works better, but what do you all think?
TL/DR, I'm sick of Dakkaflyrants and gants, running a wannabe Tyranidkin army.
Woohoo! Can't wait to see how that army turns out.
Just 2 advice. 1) Run some of those shrikes with rending claws. It makes them slight better (and cheaper) against vehicles. 2) I still prefer 1 malanthrope over 2 venoms. What's more, the malan can actually buff up the close-combat prowess of your cc-army.
^ I may drop a Shrike unit for a Gargoyle squad and some rending claws. One thing that I enjoyed with my gants and I think will be more effective with the Gargoyles is constantly shifting bubble wraps to deny charges that I dont want (looking at you, White Scars).
Shrikes are an interesting unit. Six of them with LW/BS can cut down a Wraithknight with ease in one turn, yet they will struggle against a lot of common models.
I do like the Malanthrope, but with this army I see myself potentially splitting my deployment into corners instead of the traditional castling. I encountered so many drop pod Centurions that made that 3+ save not as desirable as two separate 5+'s , especially if spread across the board. I see needing my shrikes and tyrants to have venoms in ruins that they can get to throughout the game if they intend on staying alive.
Saythings wrote:@krootman, I literally just made a list of my Battlescribe app this morning in response to my Nova list that resembles your new list. xD
5 Flyrants, 5 Spores, 2 ML3 Heralds of Discs (1 with Exalted reward), 11 Horrors, and 8 Screamers.
My lack of ground presence at Nova was concerning. I even had a Tervigon and 30 gants to start with. But she usually ended up spawning gants as bubble wraps and sitting in a corner to deny Marked for Death or kill all enemy troops.
Yeaaa we tried that a long time ago and it just wasn't working. I tried less flyrants with more daemons but I just found that I really liked the 6th flyrant. (thanks turbo 997) (I tried 5 with fateweaver, and it was eehhhhhh). The 230 pts of daemons in the list worked so well and fixed a lot of issues. I was 1 dice roll from the top 8 (lost on tiebreakers on turn 6, had it won on 5). The list worked really really well. I also only had 1 practice game with it before nova (spent the last few months playing gladius) so I feel like maybe some more games would have made a difference in the knock out rounds.
jy2 wrote: Here's a major reason why 6-flyrants don't work IMO....Ravenwing. Go up against true Ravenwing or even the semi-RW build with TWC allies and flyrant-spam will have a hard time. RW might not be as common yet in the NOVA format, but i guarantee you that they will dominate in the ITC format.
You still have e grubs and vector strikes to get the no cover hits, and 6 flyrants can probably push through with those depending on the list they are running.
Egrubs and VS is just not reliable enough. Assuming you can hit 3 bikes with Egrubs, it'll take you 2 flyrants just to kill 1 biker with it. VS is slightly more reliable, wit the flyrant netting .67W per VS. With 6 flyrants, that is 4 dead bikes a turn, assuming no FNP or invuln saves from characters. However, the problem with either methods is that it can take the flyrant grossly out of position in 1 turn, thus forcing them to either fly off or to possibly go into Glide mode in order to turn around.
Finally you run into the problem of board control (or rather, the lack of) in the ITC format. Keep in mind that there will be NO daemon summoning Tyranids in the ITC. Honestly i'm having a rather tough time building a 6-flyrant list in the ITC format.
Welp that is the big issue, that really hurts. We were actually looking at 7 flyrants for itc (5 with e grub) but honestly it has the same problems the 6 build list has in a non cta format, aka no ground presence. However outside of itc format or any other cta banning format, bugs daemons can beat thunderwolf star. For nova Turbo 997 and myself made this list because it can counter the death star lists. (he knocked out Alex Fennel in the invitational who was running wolf star) Eventually they have to split to grab objectives and that's when the flyrants shine.
shadowfinder wrote:I am sorry this is getting crazy The list Now revolve around 6 Flyrants and is considered competitive play? I can't believe we are even calling this a tactic!!!! Last year 5 was questionable and being jerk. Now its a must to be competitive really...????
This is not even playing the codex it's more like playing AoS40k style with war-scrolls.
We are already seeing armies with 6+ unit of drop centurions. The codex's are starting to be played with only the best unit in each codex. This is really sad. It's not 40k anymore it Codex best unit.
Raven wing is a hard counter to flyrants spam.
If the 2+ re-roll is allowed you should just shake hands and say good by. The volume of fire from the raven wing should kill a tyrant or two a game. All that twin-linked plasma just eats you alive. Or mass grave units.
I like the ITC, but I have a feeling that the Ard'boys style of play that is developing is going to hurt the hobby more then not.
I hate my self for saying this but I think some form of comp will have to happen in the future with GW rule development style.
Sorry playing VS just 6 Tyrants, spores, and maybe Mawlocs. Is not playing Tyranids. As playing VS Multi centerions drop list is not playing SM.
It is boring to play VS these armies as you either have the counter or you don't. Their is no stratagem involved here. No real skill.
Nobody is making you play in these events. You are perfectly free to avoid this kind of play and these types of lists. It may be boring to you, but I very much enjoy playing competitive 40k. I never understood why people like to talk about how boring it is to play or how its bad for the game. Last I checked I never heard gt players complain how bad casual lists are for the game...
Last I checked there are multiple ways to play this game
Ratius wrote: How did you model your Shrike wings can I aks jy2 or are they the old FW models?
I don't actually run shrikes but I do have some of the models with the FW wings. If I were to go about converting them, the easiest way to do so would probably be to snip off the wings of some gargoyles and then put them on your warriors.
I briefly introduced myself as a fan of jy2 at Nova. I was the guy with the 5 unpainted (I am ashamed) Flyrants with the unique insect-styled wings. We talked Thursday night and asked you how your games went Friday night after Round 2. (Very vague I know!) xD
That being said, when I saw jy2 at Nova, the only thing I was thinking was... can't wait to see his army pics and reports!! HAHAHA. Thanks for making those reports btw. It's always nice getting that first person thought process that we see in your reports.
I just released he brought Centstar to Nova this year, regardless, respect for all your help with the Nids tactica.
JY2 is on vacation in Eurpoe for a bit (though I've still seen him posting) and that's actually partly why he didn't take his nids to NOVA from what we talked about.
Does anyone find hive guards are still usefull? Last tourney my 3x1 hive guards took out 2 necron barges 1 flying croissant and some decurion warriors with +5 due to str 8 weapon, soak up'ed a lot shots. Next game was 3 rhino 1 dreadnaught and few marines.
I'm just starting to start practicing for Da Boys (which is Higlander this year).
That being said, as a Nid player I've been trying to make a list that is competitive enough to get Top Nids player. Haha.
Hive Guard seem like a pretty decent choice out of the rest of my choices. Highlander is so rough for Nids. I'll be letting you guys know how my Highlander list pans out as I get more practice games in. Deathleaper as my Warlord is great for denying that Secondary though. He even got a 7" charge off for first blood on Turn2! XD
I am playing a tournament in a month and half. The rules are 1500 points, Maelstrom of War-missions, no supplements, no Forge World and no allies what so ever. That means maximum two Hive Tyrants and no formations. Of course this is kind of "unfair" for some races, including Tyranids, but what is 40k with balance?!
So far I have come up with this. The list is at 1460 points. I am pretty satisfied with this list except for the lack of synapse. If my Hive Tyrants gets killed I will lose control of the rest of my army. Other than that I have pretty good survivability with five FMCs.
I am also considering a second Venomthrope for the cost of a Lictor and potentionally important Maelstrom points, as most well done armies can remove at least two Hive Tyrants turn one if the Venomthrope dies in the early shots.
Callylove wrote: I am playing a tournament in a month and half. The rules are 1500 points, Maelstrom of War-missions, no supplements, no Forge World and no allies what so ever. That means maximum two Hive Tyrants and no formations. Of course this is kind of "unfair" for some races, including Tyranids, but what is 40k without balance?!
So far I have come up with this. The list is at 1460 points. I am pretty satisfied with this list except for the lack of synapse. If my Hive Tyrants gets killed I will lose control of the rest of my army. Other than that I have pretty good survivability with five FMCs.
I am also considering a second Venomthrope for the cost of a Lictor and potentionally important Maelstrom points, as most well done armies can remove at least two Hive Tyrants turn one if the Venomthrope dies in the early shots.
It is hard to do one CAD for bugs, but thats reasonably solid. I would drop one crone for another Mawloc and probably take two Venoms. (Anyone whos ever gone second VS a Tau broadside list knows why)
Automatically Appended Next Post: So Im still theory crafting my all CC army, heres where they sit ATM:
Typically, deploy split. Gargoyles are mainly there for bubble wrap and to finesse a first turn charge to eat overwatch if anyone comes to close. Shrikes are murderous in close combat of course, but unless they get to initiate their charge from 2+ cover via Venoms then overwatch can actually be awfully effective against them. Tyrants will have to do the heavy lifting against flamer heavy armies like Salamanders and the Shrikes will have to charge second.
I won this last year with Tyranids. Its was a blast. You get food included and other goodies.
As for single Cad list I do it all the time. It makes you get away from the crutch of 3-5 flyrants.
In the list above I would drop the venom you lose control of it anyways.
Or drop a lector and Get a ADL for a 2+ no mater the terrain.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I was hoping a couple of you can lookat a few list I have done in the army section. I would post here but it is a big post.
Iechine wrote: Jim said he probably would only do summaries for NOVA. I was going to do them but left my battery for Day 1. : /
Correct. I don't plan on doing full batreps, mainly because I didn't take many pictures. Instead I will most likely just be doing summaries of my NOVA matches when I get back from vaca.
tryke wrote: Does anyone find hive guards are still usefull? Last tourney my 3x1 hive guards took out 2 necron barges 1 flying croissant and some decurion warriors with +5 due to str 8 weapon, soak up'ed a lot shots. Next game was 3 rhino 1 dreadnaught and few marines.
While I love the models, I haven't really used mine for some time. Ever since Zoanthropes got their new plastic kits I've fallen in love with broods of 3 for my tank-popping elites. Warp Blast may be a pain to get off, but Zoeys have a better chance of actually hitting things and they offer other utility functions beyond their ranged attacks.
That said, I haven't tried them with the Tyrannocytes yet. The biggest problem I have had with them (outside of their horrid accuracy) is that they tend to get shot up and slaughtered before they can get into range due to their fell reputation from 5th edition.
Thanks to a few comments here and their, plus play testing. I have decided to go with the List below.
The tournament and Mission are found here. www.40kambassadors.com/missions.php
Play testing the mission have shown that you need to play attention to the mission or you can lose easy.
The list should give me all the Fire Power I will need. As well as giving me options for deployment.
I had list with the Tox and Haus. in it and it did well. But They didn't help in two games really that a dakka fex couldn't do. I dislike mawloc's but having one that can go after death stars or odd objectives will be help full.
So please take a comment and give me your thoughts on the list. I have already turned the list in so no changes can be made, Innless I messed up the formatting and they have me redo it. So please give comments.
shadowfinder wrote: Thanks to a few comments here and their, plus play testing. I have decided to go with the List below.
The tournament and Mission are found here. www.40kambassadors.com/missions.php
Play testing the mission have shown that you need to play attention to the mission or you can lose easy.
The list should give me all the Fire Power I will need. As well as giving me options for deployment.
I had list with the Tox and Haus. in it and it did well. But They didn't help in two games really that a dakka fex couldn't do. I dislike mawloc's but having one that can go after death stars or odd objectives will be help full.
So please take a comment and give me your thoughts on the list. I have already turned the list in so no changes can be made, Innless I messed up the formatting and they have me redo it. So please give comments.
Iechine wrote: I think everyone is entitled to their opinion, but there is no comparing a Flyrant with Devourers to Tyranid Prime.
I have to agree.
God I hate trolls.
Ask for a honest thought and get a response like that.
Take it easy on the new guy. He's just trying to help....I think? Just because a newer player offers up bad advice doesn't mean he is intentionally trolling. It could just be due to youthful exuberance and inexperience.
whirlwindstruggle wrote: I would substitute out the Hive Tyrants for Tyranid Primes personally, they are cheaper and just about as good as the flyrants in my experience.
Other than that, looks good!
Comparing a Tyranid Prime to a flyrant is like comparing a beat up, old Pinto to a Porshe. You may think the Pinto is good because it is serviceable in getting you from point A to point B, but wait til you drive the Porshe. You just won't look at the Pinto the same way anymore.
Or are you thinking about Trygon Primes? In which case the list would be illegal.
In any case, Tyranid Prime = bad. Flyrant = good.
shadowfinder wrote: Thanks to a few comments here and their, plus play testing. I have decided to go with the List below.
The tournament and Mission are found here. www.40kambassadors.com/missions.php
Play testing the mission have shown that you need to play attention to the mission or you can lose easy.
The list should give me all the Fire Power I will need. As well as giving me options for deployment.
I had list with the Tox and Haus. in it and it did well. But They didn't help in two games really that a dakka fex couldn't do. I dislike mawloc's but having one that can go after death stars or odd objectives will be help full.
So please take a comment and give me your thoughts on the list. I have already turned the list in so no changes can be made, Innless I messed up the formatting and they have me redo it. So please give comments.
Hive Tyrant (230pts) [Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Wings]
+ Troops (15pts) +
Mucolid Spore Cluster (15pts) [Mucolid Spore]
+ Heavy Support (140pts) +
Mawloc (140pts)
A couple of questions.
1. Why no malanthrope? Is it because FW is not allowed?
2. Why the single lictor? Is it for Linebreaker purposes? Because a single lictor by itself isn't going to do much. You might want to consider 2x1 venomthropes instead.
You can't actually compare any other unit in the codex to a flyrant, well accept maybe a mucloid....but they are the only 2 competitive units for top level competitive games anymore. (maybe lictors and mawlocs but not really anymore) in fringe events.
Its sad really because so many of the units try, or are close to not sucking and they all have a lot of character and look so cool!
Hive Tyrant (230pts) [Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Wings]
+ Troops (15pts) +
Mucolid Spore Cluster (15pts) [Mucolid Spore]
+ Heavy Support (140pts) +
Mawloc (140pts)
A couple of questions.
1. Why no malanthrope? Is it because FW is not allowed?
2. Why the single lictor? Is it for Linebreaker purposes? Because a single lictor by itself isn't going to do much. You might want to consider 2x1 venomthropes instead.
Forge World is not allowed. Just what's in the codex or supplements. Also the other army's are allowed only their codex as well. No allies allowed. A cad must be taken and up to 3 detachment with one having to be cad. I hope that clear. I been up way to long today.
The single lector is to play to one of the missions and also to have a Line Breaker unit that I can hide real easy. I could do rippers but they sometime scatter. Also in one of the missions you gain primary points for each FoC you kill off. I wanted to have more then just the Venomthrope in the list. The lictor allows me to force my adversary to go out of his way to kill it. Giving me control on where he goes. Kind of a board control-ish thing.
This tournament has been going on for 5 years in the local area. It unique format is that you never fight the same army twice in the tournament. Only one army for each codex. Last year was 16 armies. 16 Different races no repeats.This year they are shooting for two full 16 brackets. With next year becoming a two day event. I won last year with Tyranids trying to do a repeat this year.
Iechine wrote: 3 Hive guard means only 3 shots hit, its just not worth it. Those points get you so much further with other options.
Which sucks, cause I think they look cool. They are great models.
Well for me that "3 hits" enough to have 2+ to glance a AV11 vehicle. If its a transport I have a good target for my hive tryants instead of using my most versatile unit for a rhino/Transpo.
Decurion is also a thing in our local community, I tried devil gaunts 100+ pts but i manage to kill 2 out of 15, and shoot my hive tyrant 250+pts to decurion warriors to fend them off from that objective but sadly i killed only 3 out of 10, my 2 HG 1 already dead 100 pts killed also 3 due to AP4 and double STR vs T value they only have 5+.
Also use hive guards from ravenwing bikers that has rerollable 2+ cover saves with FnP, so they use normal power armor 3+ with FnP.
I also instakill some JSJ crisis suits due to ignore LOS and some path finders hinding in the ruins.
Yes, they misses and it sucks like every other typical tyranid BS3 units and any other BS3 in the units the game.
I'm just stating my experience from a typical math hammer. So for me they still viable and plays a very important role in my ground force besides from may 3 flyrants and a crone.
Hive guards give you something that no other unit in the army can. The combination of high strength + ignore cover. Beside the flyrant the hive guards are still the unit with the highest reliability rate. You know that it will do well on what it is supposed to be doing. No other unit can say so in the tyranid book. Str 8 at 24" is no scoff either, with all the str 6 brainleeches out there AV 12 vehicles have become too tough to crack. But the option to blatantly remove cover save is the big winner for me. It can just give you answers to things you don't normally have, like AV12 tanks, skimmers of all kinds, EXCELLENT against Ork bikes, perfect for killing other tyranids (oh the irony). Many my hive guards have looked at the solo autarch with the mantle of the laughing god and taught the bastard what laughing really is. Finally their Toughness 6 and 4+ save make them all but immortal against small arms fire of any kind, and if the enemy is shooting krak missiles at them and not at your T4 stuff then you are doing it correct.
the only actualy problem I find with Hive guards is that they compete in the same slots with all the supporting elements of the army (venomthropes, zoanthropes, lictors). 2 shots and BS 3 is also not perfect, but then again they got 10 pts cheaper since the last codex so there's that. Would I prefer them with 3 shots or 3 wounds each? Heck yes. Would I want them to also have a skyfire shooting mode? Bloody sure. But I still think they are a pretty solid deal for what they do. Reliability is quite a matter for Tyranids. The Hive guards provide it.
I dont understand how you factor them as ' the unit with the highest reliability rate'.
AV12 has never been an issue, nor have skimmers, thats what electroshock grubs/devourers are for. Meanwhile, 1 Hive guard firing has only a 25% chance of glancing AV12, 3 Hive guard giving you 1.5 glances/pens. Really not impressive at all for a 165pt unit vs a Wave Serpent.
I want them to be good, they are simply mediocre at what they do and I'd rather fill those points with something more effective.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Take a Crone instead, its cheaper, far more mobile, harder to kill, its Vector strike will have a 50% chance of an AP2 glance or pen, then its flamer can have a 50% chance of getting through (the likely) rear armor 10, and both ignore cover.
Iechine wrote: I dont understand how you factor them as ' the unit with the highest reliability rate'.
AV12 has never been an issue, nor have skimmers, thats what electroshock grubs/devourers are for. Meanwhile, 1 Hive guard firing has only a 25% chance of glancing AV12, 3 Hive guard giving you 1.5 glances/pens. Really not impressive at all for a 165pt unit vs a Wave Serpent.
I want them to be good, they are simply mediocre at what they do and I'd rather fill those points with something more effective.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Take a Crone instead, its cheaper, far more mobile, harder to kill, its Vector strike will have a 50% chance of an AP2 glance or pen, then its flamer can have a 50% chance of getting through (the likely) rear armor 10, and both ignore cover.
Because reliability does not equal effectiveness. A mawloc is more effective. It also needs a roll to arrive and scatters quite a lot, which makes it less reliable. See the difference? Most units in the Tyranid codex might or might not do their thing. A Lictor might do its thing or it might die from a single krak missile. A zoanthrope might do its thing and blast things with lance though it is really really situational and there are so many dice rolls involved that it is not reliable. Same goes for a lot of different things in the army. The Hive guards to not belong there. Reason is that you will always know what to expect from hive guards. This is what reliability means. I never said they are good, in fact I specifically mentioned that 2 attacks at Bs 3 is nothing to write home about. But a Hive guard IS reliable. The way a flyrant is, the way a malanthrope is and the way a Tervigon isn't. A hive guard is reliable. It's as simple as that. Can't really get it more clear.
Hive Tyrant (230pts) [Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Wings]
+ Troops (15pts) +
Mucolid Spore Cluster (15pts) [Mucolid Spore]
+ Heavy Support (140pts) +
Mawloc (140pts)
A couple of questions.
1. Why no malanthrope? Is it because FW is not allowed?
2. Why the single lictor? Is it for Linebreaker purposes? Because a single lictor by itself isn't going to do much. You might want to consider 2x1 venomthropes instead.
Forge World is not allowed. Just what's in the codex or supplements. Also the other army's are allowed only their codex as well. No allies allowed. A cad must be taken and up to 3 detachment with one having to be cad. I hope that clear. I been up way to long today.
The single lector is to play to one of the missions and also to have a Line Breaker unit that I can hide real easy. I could do rippers but they sometime scatter. Also in one of the missions you gain primary points for each FoC you kill off. I wanted to have more then just the Venomthrope in the list. The lictor allows me to force my adversary to go out of his way to kill it. Giving me control on where he goes. Kind of a board control-ish thing.
This tournament has been going on for 5 years in the local area. It unique format is that you never fight the same army twice in the tournament. Only one army for each codex. Last year was 16 armies. 16 Different races no repeats.This year they are shooting for two full 16 brackets. With next year becoming a two day event. I won last year with Tyranids trying to do a repeat this year.
If you are looking for something easy to hide that gives you line breaker, deep striking rippers might be a good option for you.
tryke wrote:
Iechine wrote: 3 Hive guard means only 3 shots hit, its just not worth it. Those points get you so much further with other options.
Which sucks, cause I think they look cool. They are great models.
Well for me that "3 hits" enough to have 2+ to glance a AV11 vehicle. If its a transport I have a good target for my hive tryants instead of using my most versatile unit for a rhino/Transpo.
Decurion is also a thing in our local community, I tried devil gaunts 100+ pts but i manage to kill 2 out of 15, and shoot my hive tyrant 250+pts to decurion warriors to fend them off from that objective but sadly i killed only 3 out of 10, my 2 HG 1 already dead 100 pts killed also 3 due to AP4 and double STR vs T value they only have 5+.
Also use hive guards from ravenwing bikers that has rerollable 2+ cover saves with FnP, so they use normal power armor 3+ with FnP.
I also instakill some JSJ crisis suits due to ignore LOS and some path finders hinding in the ruins.
Yes, they misses and it sucks like every other typical tyranid BS3 units and any other BS3 in the units the game.
I'm just stating my experience from a typical math hammer. So for me they still viable and plays a very important role in my ground force besides from may 3 flyrants and a crone.
I get your trying to make them work, and more power to you, a lictor might also give you what you are looking for, they can deep strike no scatter and do some str 6 hits against rear armor. Plus they can do lots of other cute things against all the units you just talked about.
Iechine wrote:I dont understand how you factor them as ' the unit with the highest reliability rate'.
AV12 has never been an issue, nor have skimmers, thats what electroshock grubs/devourers are for. Meanwhile, 1 Hive guard firing has only a 25% chance of glancing AV12, 3 Hive guard giving you 1.5 glances/pens. Really not impressive at all for a 165pt unit vs a Wave Serpent.
I want them to be good, they are simply mediocre at what they do and I'd rather fill those points with something more effective.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Take a Crone instead, its cheaper, far more mobile, harder to kill, its Vector strike will have a 50% chance of an AP2 glance or pen, then its flamer can have a 50% chance of getting through (the likely) rear armor 10, and both ignore cover.
As I said before lictors can do lots of cute things to tanks
Hive Tyrant (230pts) [Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Wings]
+ Troops (15pts) +
Mucolid Spore Cluster (15pts) [Mucolid Spore]
+ Heavy Support (140pts) +
Mawloc (140pts)
A couple of questions.
1. Why no malanthrope? Is it because FW is not allowed?
2. Why the single lictor? Is it for Linebreaker purposes? Because a single lictor by itself isn't going to do much. You might want to consider 2x1 venomthropes instead.
Forge World is not allowed. Just what's in the codex or supplements. Also the other army's are allowed only their codex as well. No allies allowed. A cad must be taken and up to 3 detachment with one having to be cad. I hope that clear. I been up way to long today.
The single lector is to play to one of the missions and also to have a Line Breaker unit that I can hide real easy. I could do rippers but they sometime scatter. Also in one of the missions you gain primary points for each FoC you kill off. I wanted to have more then just the Venomthrope in the list. The lictor allows me to force my adversary to go out of his way to kill it. Giving me control on where he goes. Kind of a board control-ish thing.
This tournament has been going on for 5 years in the local area. It unique format is that you never fight the same army twice in the tournament. Only one army for each codex. Last year was 16 armies. 16 Different races no repeats.This year they are shooting for two full 16 brackets. With next year becoming a two day event. I won last year with Tyranids trying to do a repeat this year.
In that case, your list is fine.
Good luck, and hope you take it for the Hive Mind once again.
Iechine wrote: 3 Hive guard means only 3 shots hit, its just not worth it. Those points get you so much further with other options.
Which sucks, cause I think they look cool. They are great models.
Well for me that "3 hits" enough to have 2+ to glance a AV11 vehicle. If its a transport I have a good target for my hive tryants instead of using my most versatile unit for a rhino/Transpo.
Decurion is also a thing in our local community, I tried devil gaunts 100+ pts but i manage to kill 2 out of 15, and shoot my hive tyrant 250+pts to decurion warriors to fend them off from that objective but sadly i killed only 3 out of 10, my 2 HG 1 already dead 100 pts killed also 3 due to AP4 and double STR vs T value they only have 5+.
Also use hive guards from ravenwing bikers that has rerollable 2+ cover saves with FnP, so they use normal power armor 3+ with FnP.
I also instakill some JSJ crisis suits due to ignore LOS and some path finders hinding in the ruins.
Yes, they misses and it sucks like every other typical tyranid BS3 units and any other BS3 in the units the game.
I'm just stating my experience from a typical math hammer. So for me they still viable and plays a very important role in my ground force besides from may 3 flyrants and a crone.
We're just a little spoiled by them last edition. The Hive Guard isn't as great as he used to be, but he is still a serviceable unit.
The main problem is that the flyrant has surpassed him as the best AT in the codex as well as the best everyman unit in the book as well. Not only is the flyrant better in AT duties, but he is better in every other facet as well whereas the hive guard is more of a niche unit. That is the main reason why you don't see hive guards around as much anymore.
Iechine wrote: I dont understand how you factor them as ' the unit with the highest reliability rate'.
AV12 has never been an issue, nor have skimmers, thats what electroshock grubs/devourers are for. Meanwhile, 1 Hive guard firing has only a 25% chance of glancing AV12, 3 Hive guard giving you 1.5 glances/pens. Really not impressive at all for a 165pt unit vs a Wave Serpent.
I want them to be good, they are simply mediocre at what they do and I'd rather fill those points with something more effective.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Take a Crone instead, its cheaper, far more mobile, harder to kill, its Vector strike will have a 50% chance of an AP2 glance or pen, then its flamer can have a 50% chance of getting through (the likely) rear armor 10, and both ignore cover.
Because reliability does not equal effectiveness. A mawloc is more effective. It also needs a roll to arrive and scatters quite a lot, which makes it less reliable. See the difference? Most units in the Tyranid codex might or might not do their thing. A Lictor might do its thing or it might die from a single krak missile. A zoanthrope might do its thing and blast things with lance though it is really really situational and there are so many dice rolls involved that it is not reliable. Same goes for a lot of different things in the army. The Hive guards to not belong there. Reason is that you will always know what to expect from hive guards. This is what reliability means. I never said they are good, in fact I specifically mentioned that 2 attacks at Bs 3 is nothing to write home about. But a Hive guard IS reliable. The way a flyrant is, the way a malanthrope is and the way a Tervigon isn't. A hive guard is reliable. It's as simple as that. Can't really get it more clear.
I've got you. Usually people use 'reliable' to mean a good thing, I didnt realize you meant the Hive Guard would reliably suck by comparison to other more effective units.
My flyrants busy chasing down eldar bikers and I will not waste 200++ pts to glace 1HP on a wave serpent, My crone is waiting from the wave serpents juicy inaards and anti flyers, Lictors at rear armor of wave serpents? Seriously? Eldar players usually face their butts at the edge of the board, and they have jink.I dont think its a good idea using a Assault 3, Str 6 rending at BS3 to a model that can jink and you are giving 50 points for nothing and a VP if they draw a card which gain VP if killed a unit. I dont know the math but it think its worst than the 165 HG.
Anyways nevermind the hive guard topic, i just find it very useful and share it to you guys to try, but if you think it sucks for you, there is nothing i can do.
I never liked the idea of "reliability" when it comes to Tyranid models. I always get the feeling that nothing is truly reliable. The only thing that comes close in my eyes are the TL Devourers and the Electrogrubs on Flyrants. The psychic powers and the grounding checks that you roll for always make me nervous. We don't have a Fateweaver that allows us to reroll those all important late game grounding checks, etc.
That being said, and continuing on the reliable topic, Tervigon spawn rates, BS3 Haywire missiles on Crones, BS3 Hiveguard, Zoanthropes Warp Blast's (that need to cast properly, not get denied, hit on 3s, rolls to pen, and then get thru the cover saves), smash attacks on MCs, to name a few, all make me nervous.
Reliability just seems like a super vague term when it comes to a die game that, in all honesty, all comes down to dice. You can increase the outcome of your game by playing correctly, adding multiple threats, and forcing redundancy.
I have to agree with Tryke that Hive Guard do provide something to the battlefield that no other Nid can and I like them for that reason. I'd much rather have 5 Flyrants, but I don't think a brood of 3 is bad at all.
I've been practicing for Da Boyz the last couple weeks, which is a Highlander format this year, and I have to say that my Hiveguard have been doing their job from time to time. Yes, sometimes they fumble, but when they hit and pen, it's nice to not allow cover; S8 isn't too shabby with a 24" range and no LOS required. If I wasn't basically forced to take Hiveguard in this format type, I probably wouldn't have used them in this edition of the codex, but I'm glad I did. I might even start using them again in my competitive lists (non-Highlander).
The reason I didn't use them as much in our most recent codex is they went up 5 pts each and they went from BS4 to BS3. I don't remember who mentioned it, but someone said they got a point reduction, but I believe they were 50pts each, and now with the Impaler Cannon they are 55 pts AND they lost a BS point. Ouch. Didn't see that coming when the codex dropped.
TL;DR - Hiveguards are a very unique unit in our codex. Try them a few times. When they whiff, don't play them down with a "This is why I don't use them". All nid models have their moments of failing. Keep using them and when they do work, they will make back their 165 points. T6 isn't too shabby either for Infantry.
You know what would be funny? Hive guards in a bastion/bunker. It basically becomes a 24" denial zone for any non-heavy tanks that try to come within. Also great against drop pod-spam a la Battle Company so that you don't have to waste your flyrants trying to kill empty pods.
jy2 wrote: You know what would be funny? Hive guards in a bastion/bunker. It basically becomes a 24" denial zone for any non-heavy tanks that try to come within. Also great against drop pod-spam a la Battle Company so that you don't have to waste your flyrants trying to kill empty pods.
If they could shoot 36" and we had the old "Old Adversary" rule, I could see a HVC Tyrant and 3 full units of Hive Guards on a skyshield landing platform. If...
tryke wrote: My flyrants busy chasing down eldar bikers and I will not waste 200++ pts to glace 1HP on a wave serpent, My crone is waiting from the wave serpents juicy inaards and anti flyers, Lictors at rear armor of wave serpents? Seriously? Eldar players usually face their butts at the edge of the board, and they have jink.I dont think its a good idea using a Assault 3, Str 6 rending at BS3 to a model that can jink and you are giving 50 points for nothing and a VP if they draw a card which gain VP if killed a unit. I dont know the math but it think its worst than the 165 HG.
Anyways nevermind the hive guard topic, i just find it very useful and share it to you guys to try, but if you think it sucks for you, there is nothing i can do.
JY2 notice me and that's enough arguing.
Lurker Mode again.
Only counter I will give you about the Lictor is that happens to be exactly how #Lictorshame demolished wave serpents Sticking Lictors behind them and assaulting them.
tryke wrote: My flyrants busy chasing down eldar bikers and I will not waste 200++ pts to glace 1HP on a wave serpent, My crone is waiting from the wave serpents juicy inaards and anti flyers, Lictors at rear armor of wave serpents? Seriously? Eldar players usually face their butts at the edge of the board, and they have jink.I dont think its a good idea using a Assault 3, Str 6 rending at BS3 to a model that can jink and you are giving 50 points for nothing and a VP if they draw a card which gain VP if killed a unit. I dont know the math but it think its worst than the 165 HG.
Anyways nevermind the hive guard topic, i just find it very useful and share it to you guys to try, but if you think it sucks for you, there is nothing i can do.
JY2 notice me and that's enough arguing.
Lurker Mode again.
Lictors are a great anti tank unit for their points, and more so, a very strong denial unit, especially when supported by/ supporting mawloc(s). Also, making a skimmer jink can be very useful, I'd rather have it shooting at BS1 than 3 or 4, and deepstriking lictors are great for this via no scatter.
Lictor shooting isn't actually good. At most, if they're lucky, they might immobilize a wave serpent back then or finish off a serpent that was already damaged. You just can't rely on their shooting to do very much.
What is dangerous, however, is their assault the following turn. If the Eldar player ignores him (due to mawlocs, dakkafexes and flyants in the vicinity), then he can do surprising damage to a wave serpent or a unit of troops who disembark from it. Of course the key to the lictor survivability is threat overload. Put other, more dangerous units nearby and the lictor will be seen as a low priority target and in many cases, ignored. That's when you can spike a serpent down.
Of course, that is neither here or now. We all know that nowadays, we no longer see wave serpents on the tabletop, at least not competitively. Just like the hive guard.
jy2 wrote: Lictor shooting isn't actually good. At most, if they're lucky, they might immobilize a wave serpent back then or finish off a serpent that was already damaged. You just can't rely on their shooting to do very much.
What is dangerous, however, is their assault the following turn. If the Eldar player ignores him (due to mawlocs, dakkafexes and flyants in the vicinity), then he can do surprising damage to a wave serpent or a unit of troops who disembark from it. Of course the key to the lictor survivability is threat overload. Put other, more dangerous units nearby and the lictor will be seen as a low priority target and in many cases, ignored. That's when you can spike a serpent down.
Of course, that is neither here or now. We all know that nowadays, we no longer see wave serpents on the tabletop, at least not competitively. Just like the hive guard.
This may have been answered 200 some pages ago but what's the effectiveness of the Wrecker Node Formation with a Toxicrene? Aside from costing an arm and a leg at 650+ pts.
Gatekeeper wrote: This may have been answered 200 some pages ago but what's the effectiveness of the Wrecker Node Formation with a Toxicrene? Aside from costing an arm and a leg at 650+ pts.
Gatekeeper wrote: This may have been answered 200 some pages ago but what's the effectiveness of the Wrecker Node Formation with a Toxicrene? Aside from costing an arm and a leg at 650+ pts.
Is it too much of a deathstar? But everything at least has synapse and shrouded :(
Just realized you could use a Malanthrope if you can play FW and save 80pts.
The Toxicrene doesn't have the Spore Cloud rule, just Shrouded itself.
The Wrecker Node is really cool (I will take any chance I can to bust out the trio of Crushing Claws/Scything Talons Carnifex; they look awesome), but it's just not going to but it for the cost in today's world in a general environment. If you're facing a lot of fortifications, or a really tank-heavy opponent you could get something out of it because there are plenty of things for the monsters to lumber after, but generally their ideal targets are not too common, and the cost of a decent Wrecker Node without going too heavy on the upgrades is at least 495 points (three Carnifex with Adrenal Glands and three Warriors with no upgrades). Don't get me wrong, the D3+1 HoW hits per Carnifex is awesome, and a charging Carnifex still hits like a... well a charging Carnifex actually. WS3 and the loss of re-rolls from the Talons have really hurt their reliability though, and coupled with their slow speed if they whiff for a turn it's an enormous problem.
Now, the Bio-blast Node on the other hand is an awesome setup (albeit even more expensive). A trio of dakkafex with re-rolls of a 1 to wound, and an Acid Spray Tyrannofex (also with re-rolls of a 1 to wound), with some babysitting Warriors (definitely add that Malanthrope) are really hardcore, hit almost as hard in combat and can be a real pain to get rid of. They don't even need the Toxicrene for support; just keep a couple of broods of Hormagaunts nearby to intercept charges etc, and unleash terrifying mid-range firepower.
Was just glancing at this thread again, and had a few newb questions:
1. From what I'm seeing for lists, it looks like "codex hive tyrant" is still in full swing?
2. Are there any fun alternate ways to run tyranids that are still effective? I've considered running something with a lot of pods, perhaps combined with an outflanking unit (I know a flyrant or two are necessary). I also painted up 150 gaunts lol... although 20 in a pod or outflanking seem legit.
For reference, here's the units I've built and painted:
Flyrant
2 x DakkaFex
2 x Mawloc
Tervigon / Tyrannofex (magnetized)
3 Zoanthropes
150 gaunts
I'm up for building another Flyrant, a few Malanthropes, some Gargoyles, a Bastion, some Pods... but am not really interested in undertaking it if it won't be fun to play or decently competitive. Running the above painted models, I felt like I was just pushing models to the center of the board and then removing them all game lol
I too would love some advice on running gaunt heavy armies.
But my experience is that t3 with virtually no armor just melts in todays meta, no matter how "friendly" the game :(
And VS certain armies they face ultra hard counters (mech, knights, gunlines, bike spam - oh boy does str3 hurt VS t5
Yeah, while a gaunt-heavy army would be cool, I know that might not be viable (and honestly, from trying to run it I didn't find it that much fun, either - dying in droves never is ). I do have rippers and am open to just running some minimum troops - but not to running more than a few flyrants. There's got to be some other build that works...
Has anyone tried a Flyrant + almost all pods / outflanking type list?
RiTides wrote: Was just glancing at this thread again, and had a few newb questions:
1. From what I'm seeing for lists, it looks like "codex hive tyrant" is still in full swing?
2. Are there any fun alternate ways to run tyranids that are still effective? I've considered running something with a lot of pods, perhaps combined with an outflanking unit (I know a flyrant or two are necessary). I also painted up 150 gaunts lol... although 20 in a pod or outflanking seem legit.
For reference, here's the units I've built and painted:
Flyrant
2 x DakkaFex
2 x Mawloc
Tervigon / Tyrannofex (magnetized)
3 Zoanthropes
150 gaunts
I'm up for building another Flyrant, a few Malanthropes, some Gargoyles, a Bastion, some Pods... but am not really interested in undertaking it if it won't be fun to play or decently competitive. Running the above painted models, I felt like I was just pushing models to the center of the board and then removing them all game lol
Thanks for any tips!
This is a list I'm sure I've posted a time or two...it's not the killiest, but it can win games...
thats around...1800? maybe 1795...so double out one of the Thrope Broods, add or subtract a Gaunt, and you're "OK"..
The Hormagaunts are there to provide a screen for the Tervigon, if it does not Outflank, and the Dakkafexen. I like to form up a "Bugstar" of a Bigbug, a screen, a Synapse, and a source of Shrouding. The main weakness of this list is lack of Synapse, so if a foe concentrates on killing your Synapse, you will do poorly.
That's similar to a list I've run, and been considering breaking out again (swap in Malanthropes for the Venomthropes to bring it to 1850). But from playing it a bit, it just feels like one big walking target... I tried it with a Bastion as well, which helps things survive a little by putting a venom or Malanthrope inside... but it's still just a shooting gallery facing any "good" list.
Wish we could run something like this and be effective:
Maybe doing more target saturation with only big bugs would help, but I don't think they're survivable or fast enough to make it across the board on foot even with Malanthropes.
Yeah, the "plan" is to use the Big Bugs as targets, that lets the Tervigon Outflank, and the Winged Dakka'rants go do their "thing"
Inside the "Bugstar" the Big Bug has a very good cover save, so it takes a Lot of AT fire to kill them. Mawlocs get to take a bite before becoming targets, and might be able to return under ground. Against a "Gunline" style foe, you can really tear them up. You can even do "OK" vs a Drop Pod force, because of the Mawlocs.
Just talk up how unstoppable and Awesome the Dakkafexen are, so your foe will focus on killing them.
RiTides wrote: Yeah, while a gaunt-heavy army would be cool, I know that might not be viable (and honestly, from trying to run it I didn't find it that much fun, either - dying in droves never is ). I do have rippers and am open to just running some minimum troops - but not to running more than a few flyrants. There's got to be some other build that works...
Has anyone tried a Flyrant + almost all pods / outflanking type list?
I run almost exclusively guant heavy lists, my collection is 3rd army hold over. Here is a typical list at 1850:
It plays well enough against even competitive lists. I do get game were it is just ugly, but I also get some very pretty wins againt list you would not expect. I can reliably push games to 5 turns, my SM lists can't say the same thing.
Gant-heavy lists are definitely possible. I would probably run 1-2 troop choice tervigons in addition to a lot of gants. You can count on a tervigon for roughly 20 spawned gants over the course of the game before it poops out. You need 60 in addition to that to run the two troop tervigons. Is 80 enough? If not have another tervigon.
So the issue with tervigons is that they used to be able to take upgrades and have the gants nearby gain those upgrades (poison, furious charge, etc). No more, which is largely why they have fallen by the wayside competitively. Also, the ill effects when the tervigon dies are no longer as easily avoidable. However, if you keep them barebones, it's still a ton of obsec bodies. Plus the big girl herself isn't easy to take down.
The key to doing tervigon spam well in the current meta (or just troop tervigons at all) is an abundance of cover. This is true for almost all Tyranid lists but especially when you have a bunch of little gribblies running around. This is done with Malanthropes. Honestly if you could put a Malanthrope into a unit, you would see hoard lists doing very well at tournaments. As is, a top tier tournament list should be able to focus one out relatively soon (especially if they have ignores cover) but most lists still need to get through a very durable platform that also will have 2+ or 3+ cover for the entire game. You will likely need two Malanthropes if you plan on running a ton of gribblies. Three wouldn't be awful honestly.
Also worth pointing out that many of these principles apply to MSU Genestealer spam, which some people have been trying out (although admittedly I don't know to what extent it has been successful)
Some tips on how to get the most out of your cover:
1) Always have at least one guy within range of your Malanthrope, and the whole unit will obtain shrouded (one of those rules that confers to the unit)
2) Utilize screening units. My favorite ones are gargoyles because they never slow down your advance. Still want to daisy-chain someone back to within 6" of a Malanthrope.
3) If you find yourself outside of synapse, remember that you can go to ground for increased cover. Normally, this isn't the best idea because a Malanthrope gives you +2 cover vs +1 for gtg, but it can be helpful at times.
3a) Remember that synapse cancels gtg entirely, so there's never any reason not to gtg as long as you can get a synapse creature in range by the next turn
4) Always always roll for night fighting. Stacks with the Malanthrope cover so you will get 4+ saves in the open and 2+ saves if you had any sort of cover save (even from intervening models in the front screening unit)
5) If you have an especially important Malanthrope (or only one) I would recommend a bunker or a bastion (with Comms relay - you won't regret it). It shrugs off most of the building damage table results and the effects of the Malanthrope go rom the edges of the building, so you get a much larger area of effect.
For what its worth, my Killadelphia list had dual Tervigons (one HQ, one troop) and they were awesome. However, it was largely dependent on the matchup.
RiTides wrote: Was just glancing at this thread again, and had a few newb questions:
1. From what I'm seeing for lists, it looks like "codex hive tyrant" is still in full swing?
2. Are there any fun alternate ways to run tyranids that are still effective? I've considered running something with a lot of pods, perhaps combined with an outflanking unit (I know a flyrant or two are necessary). I also painted up 150 gaunts lol... although 20 in a pod or outflanking seem legit.
For reference, here's the units I've built and painted:
Flyrant
2 x DakkaFex
2 x Mawloc
Tervigon / Tyrannofex (magnetized)
3 Zoanthropes
150 gaunts
I'm up for building another Flyrant, a few Malanthropes, some Gargoyles, a Bastion, some Pods... but am not really interested in undertaking it if it won't be fun to play or decently competitive. Running the above painted models, I felt like I was just pushing models to the center of the board and then removing them all game lol
Thanks for any tips!
If you don't want to go flyrant-heavy, then there are 2 ways to go about it. But before I get into that, I'd recommend at least 2 flyrants, especially if you plan to run this in tournament play as well as casual.
3x Rippers - Deepstrike (or you can run another 10 Termagants if you don't want to get the ripper models)
3x Rippers - Deepstrike (or you can run another 10 Termagants if you don't want to get the ripper models)
Mawloc
2. If you want to run a gant-based army, then luke1705's tervigon-based suggestion is what I would recommend. I'd go something like this:
Jy2 - Cool lists, thank you! For the first, do the zoeys go in the third pod? And why have the Bastion at all - would it be better to just have very little presence in the deployment zone (such as starting the Flyrants off of the board) or is the problem with that lack of synapse?
I am totally OK with running some rippers - I got some specifically based on your advice here, but didn't think the rest of the army would be viable.
So, let me know what you think about the Bastion - if that is really important to the list or if it'd be better to present no large targets. And what do you think about a Tyrannofex instead of a Dakkafex?
Finally, if someone could tell me what the Lictor does in the list I would appreciate it
RiTides wrote: Those are some great posts guys - gives me hope!
Jy2 - Cool lists, thank you! For the first, do the zoeys go in the third pod? And why have the Bastion at all - would it be better to just have very little presence in the deployment zone (such as starting the Flyrants off of the board) or is the problem with that lack of synapse?
I am totally OK with running some rippers - I got some specifically based on your advice here, but didn't think the rest of the army would be viable.
So, let me know what you think about the Bastion - if that is really important to the list or if it'd be better to present no large targets. And what do you think about a Tyrannofex instead of a Dakkafex?
Finally, if someone could tell me what the Lictor does in the list I would appreciate it
Yeah, 1 pod for the zoeys.
The bastion is mainly for the Comms Relay to control your reserves. However, it can also be used to house your malanthrope and to let your flyrants hide behind. If you want to dump it, that's fine. Then I would consider an Aegis w/Comms Relay. Just keep in mind that even in a Reserves-based army, you need to have enough resiliency on the ground so that you won't get tabled on Turn 1 against the likes of Tau or drop pod armies.
Rippers are excellent in a Reserves-based army.
Tyrannofex is a decent option and definitely more resilient, though the dakkafex is probably the better all-purpose unit.
Lictor was because I had 50-pts left. He's good for several purposes: 1) no-scatter deepstrike makes him a surgical tool to get to far-away objectives, 2) put him in ruins outside of Synapse and he becomes very durable with a 2+ go-to-ground cover save, 3) he's great for Linebreaker purposes and 4) occassionally, he can be used as a beacon for your mawloc to come in without scatter. Now he isn't absolutely a must-have for your list, but he provides a lot of utility for only 50-pts.
If you dump the bastion, then you are just going to have to rely on regular reserve rolls for your army.
Okay you have convinced me . I just need to get the pods, and build the Bastion and second Flyrant.
One last question on heavy support choices - do you like keeping the Zoeys in the list (rather than another big bug) for the third pod - I'm guessing they're helpful to provide some upfield synapse? And if I could find the points would a single Biovore be worth it to hide behind the Bastion?
Actually one more is the void shield really worth it on the Bastion? It's AV12 so doesn't that just give their lower powered shooting something to knock off before they take aim with the big guns? Since I'm thinking not much else will be visible on the first turn (Flyrants might be).
Pulling the trigger on 3 - 4 pods based on all this!!
Edit: I'm getting that the list is 10 points over (probably because of the rippers instead of termagaunts in the second CAD). What would you think of my dropping 1 Zoanthrope to do the following: Cover the cost of 3 troop units being Rippers instead of Gaunts (+15 total), change 1 DakkaFex to Tyrannofex w/ E-grubs (+35). Can the Zoeys work in the pod with just 2 in the unit?
RiTides wrote: Okay you have convinced me . I just need to get the pods, and build the Bastion and second Flyrant.
One last question on heavy support choices - do you like keeping the Zoeys in the list (rather than another big bug) for the third pod - I'm guessing they're helpful to provide some upfield synapse? And if I could find the points would a single Biovore be worth it to hide behind the Bastion?
Actually one more is the void shield really worth it on the Bastion? It's AV12 so doesn't that just give their lower powered shooting something to knock off before they take aim with the big guns? Since I'm thinking not much else will be visible on the first turn (Flyrants might be).
Pulling the trigger on 3 - 4 pods based on all this!!
Edit: I'm getting that the list is 10 points over (probably because of the rippers instead of termagaunts in the second CAD). What would you think of my dropping 1 Zoanthrope to do the following: Cover the cost of 3 troop units being Rippers instead of Gaunts (+15 total), change 1 DakkaFex to Tyrannofex w/ E-grubs (+35). Can the Zoeys work in the pod with just 2 in the unit?
Void shield is mainly to protect against drop podding melta. It will take away 1 melta hit at least. BTW, it is ruled in the ITC and Nova that melta does not get the extra +D6 against it. Also, grav cannot hurt the void shields either, which makes the bastion immune to grav.
Also, one cool thing about void shields is that it protects units on the battlement as well. So if you put your biovore on top, he'll get 2+ cover from the battlement and malanthrope inside along with protection of the void shield as well. The biovore is a good unit. If you want to run them consider swapping out the zoans + tyrannocyte for a mawloc + biovores.
Zoans are not reliable offensive units. They are more of a force-multiplier unit with their Synapse and psychic powers. Personally, I'd drop them for another dakkafex or even a tyrannofex, but that is more of a preference thing. I included it in the sample list because you've already got the models.
Thanks again for the great tips, jy2 (and lechine, luke, barnowl, and pinecone!). This is extremely helpful. I've made an army lists thread based on the feedback here, if you wouldn't mind checking it out and giving further thoughts I would really appreciate it
Particularly wondering about whether an escape hatch is a good idea on the Bastion to launch the Malanthrope further upfield midgame (can Dakkafexes function OK outside of synapse?).
...and can 2 Biovores fit on top of a Bastion? I think they're supposed to be based on 60mms now...
I'm trying to figure out how to build a list for a 1500 points HighLander tournament with the added restriction that all units have to be MINIMUM size (and dedicated transports are also 0-1)., Given these restrictions, I'm thinking that its going to be a MSU-fest.
So the units to include, I'm figuring are those with area effect abilities, such as:
I'm a bit hesitant to include much gaunts, because the minimum size restriction makes them so easily disposed.
Given those restrictions on top of Highlander, what units would you suggest to include? It's going to be very objective-based missions, with maelstrom as secondaries.
I'm trying to figure out how to build a list for a 1500 points HighLander tournament with the added restriction that all units have to be MINIMUM size (and dedicated transports are also 0-1)., Given these restrictions, I'm thinking that its going to be a MSU-fest.
So the units to include, I'm figuring are those with area effect abilities, such as:
I'm a bit hesitant to include much gaunts, because the minimum size restriction makes them so easily disposed.
Given those restrictions on top of Highlander, what units would you suggest to include? It's going to be very objective-based missions, with maelstrom as secondaries.
thanks!
I started my practice games for Da Boyz early this year (large GT in New York that is Highlander format). From what I've noticed my Tervigon as a troop choice has almost always shined in this particular format. As you said, you can only run 10 gant max squads. That being said, you can still run an HQ Tervigon that spawns ObSec gants. For your troops choice, you could run 1 Mucolid spore (solo obviously) and 3 Ripper Swarms (DS upgrade for mobility). That gives you 2 HQs and 2 Troops from the get-go and still have plenty of options for the rest.
I have been running a Venomthrope for 2 reasons. One I don't own a Malanthrope (doh!, but will be making one soon) and two, Venomthropes are tiny and if there are any ruins that have a solid bottom floor (no windows/double-closed doors), you can get away with completely hiding them. The tervigon usually sits on my backfield and spawns gants to bubble wrap when I'm in trouble. Biovores (I run 3, but you can only run 1) sit near the Tervigon as well leaving 3 things in your backfield (and spawned gants) that they have to get rid of.
Currently, my list is: 1 Flyrant (the works) 1 Malanthrope (proxied atm) 6 Zoans (with Neuro) 1 Pod (for Zoans mostly, but I have options) 3 Hiveguards (even a single one is nice to have, try testing in Highlander format) 3 Rippers 1 Tervigon (Electrogrubs) (troops) 30 Gants 1 Hive Crone (MVP, I love the vector strikes) 3 Biovores 1 Dakkafex 1 Mawloc
Although I'm not limited by min/max squads, I generally pulled from a lot of the slots in my single CAD. This lets my opponents have to prioritize correctly. Another thing to note for my GT there are 0-1 Imperial Knights allowed, and that is the only Super Heavy allowed. That being said, I expect every Imperium army to have 1. (Why wouldn't they?!) That's what the Electrogrubs, Crone's vector strike, and 6 Zoans are for (don't forget smash attacks!). Anything that helps kill that is practically in my army list, including the Mawloc that needs 6's in a pinch!
min sized unit drastically changes things for Highlander...
Your list of units looks good (Flyrant, Malanthrope, Dakkafex, Mawloc, Biovore, Hive Crone)
For Troops choices, I'd say a Ripper Swarm and Mucolid would be good.
A Tervigon in the HQ slot might work out well depending on how the tournament rules on Objective Secured termagaunts coming from the Tervigon. (Some TOs rule that they are not Objective Secured).
It's going to be really hard to have any kind of cohesive list with those restrictions.
Zimko wrote: min sized unit drastically changes things for Highlander...
Your list of units looks good (Flyrant, Malanthrope, Dakkafex, Mawloc, Biovore, Hive Crone)
For Troops choices, I'd say a Ripper Swarm and Mucolid would be good.
A Tervigon in the HQ slot might work out well depending on how the tournament rules on Objective Secured termagaunts coming from the Tervigon. (Some TOs rule that they are not Objective Secured).
It's going to be really hard to have any kind of cohesive list with those restrictions.
Yeah it's tough, especially since I also forgot to mention that all 'summoning' is also prohibited (so Tervigons don't spawn at all) so Tervigon not really worth it...
This is the 'work-in-progress' list so far:
Hive Tyrant: twin-linked devourer with brainleech worms; twin-linked devourer with brainleech worms; wings; electroshock grubs
1 Zoanthrope 1 Hive Guard Malanthrope
3 Ripper Swarms: Deep Strike
3 Tyranid Warriors: barbed strangler
It might be worthwhile to include 10 gargoyles. Their blind attacks can tie up a big nasty and their poison ability allows them to at least hurt said nasty. Also, they'd provide a cover screen for the warriors, shrikes and/or Carnifex.
So Wife and I are pretty much decided we'll go to Mechanicon again this year. Its a 5 round GT that is self regulated and laid back. As an example last year no one brought Eldar, and you saw lists you'd rarely find out there.
So it sounds like my CC Tyranid list might be able to at least have fun. I've bought all the models and am working on getting them painted up. The mines are included to make a relatively Null deployment possible. Missions are pretty much eternal war and modified Maelstrom, nothing fancy.
Flyrant w/Electro, Adrenal Glands, Old Adversary, RoO (No Ymgarl this time)
Venomthrope
Venomthrope
Most of this army can deep strike and is fast enough to score. The Hormagants are there to eat overwatch on early T1/T2 charge situations for Shrikes. Malanthrope is awesome, but I took dual Venomthropes to have central nodes to hop in to for my Tyrants and Shrikes to get cover saves (thats about all the Shrikes have keeping them alive).
Stone Crusher is a distraction fex and a Drop pod killer, not to mention his Bioflail can let him punk a lot of different units with its Instant Death ability. Plus, he's cool.
Zimko wrote: min sized unit drastically changes things for Highlander...
Your list of units looks good (Flyrant, Malanthrope, Dakkafex, Mawloc, Biovore, Hive Crone)
For Troops choices, I'd say a Ripper Swarm and Mucolid would be good.
A Tervigon in the HQ slot might work out well depending on how the tournament rules on Objective Secured termagaunts coming from the Tervigon. (Some TOs rule that they are not Objective Secured).
It's going to be really hard to have any kind of cohesive list with those restrictions.
Yeah it's tough, especially since I also forgot to mention that all 'summoning' is also prohibited (so Tervigons don't spawn at all) so Tervigon not really worth it...
This is the 'work-in-progress' list so far:
Hive Tyrant: twin-linked devourer with brainleech worms; twin-linked devourer with brainleech worms; wings; electroshock grubs
1 Zoanthrope 1 Hive Guard Malanthrope
3 Ripper Swarms: Deep Strike
3 Tyranid Warriors: barbed strangler
I'm trying to figure out how to build a list for a 1500 points HighLander tournament with the added restriction that all units have to be MINIMUM size (and dedicated transports are also 0-1)., Given these restrictions, I'm thinking that its going to be a MSU-fest.
So the units to include, I'm figuring are those with area effect abilities, such as:
I'm a bit hesitant to include much gaunts, because the minimum size restriction makes them so easily disposed.
Given those restrictions on top of Highlander, what units would you suggest to include? It's going to be very objective-based missions, with maelstrom as secondaries.
thanks!
For Highlander, you've got to consider the Tervigon. He is great in Highlander events. I would check with the TO to see if you can take the mandatory 30-gant unit in order to make him a troop. If not, then he is still decent as an HQ choice.
Other units that I would recommend in Highlander play:
Tyrannocyte
Dimachaeron
Min squads of termagants/hormagants/gargoyles.
Tyran wrote: With the new Tau GCs, I hope our own get a similar treatment.
We have some of the most expensive LoW's currently. Unfortunately, because we already have LoW's, I doubt we will get it in our new codex....unless they decide to make Swarmy a LoW. BTW, what's gonna suck is that Apoc hardly ever updates their LoW units so we'll be stuck with the same over-priced hierodules and bio-titan for a while.
Iechine wrote: So Wife and I are pretty much decided we'll go to Mechanicon again this year. Its a 5 round GT that is self regulated and laid back. As an example last year no one brought Eldar, and you saw lists you'd rarely find out there.
So it sounds like my CC Tyranid list might be able to at least have fun. I've bought all the models and am working on getting them painted up. The mines are included to make a relatively Null deployment possible. Missions are pretty much eternal war and modified Maelstrom, nothing fancy.
Flyrant w/Electro, Adrenal Glands, Old Adversary, RoO (No Ymgarl this time)
Venomthrope
Venomthrope
Most of this army can deep strike and is fast enough to score. The Hormagants are there to eat overwatch on early T1/T2 charge situations for Shrikes. Malanthrope is awesome, but I took dual Venomthropes to have central nodes to hop in to for my Tyrants and Shrikes to get cover saves (thats about all the Shrikes have keeping them alive).
Stone Crusher is a distraction fex and a Drop pod killer, not to mention his Bioflail can let him punk a lot of different units with its Instant Death ability. Plus, he's cool.
Ideas/thoughts on running this?
That list looks like it'll be a lot of fun to blast off the table. Good luck.
Haha, j.k. I don't believe in cc-bugs (at least not without a couple of dimachaerons), but I hope it goes well for you.
That list looks like it'll be a lot of fun to blast off the table. Good luck.
Haha, j.k. I don't believe in cc-bugs (at least not without a couple of dimachaerons), but I hope it goes well for you.
I feel you. But I've gotta do something to keep having fun, NOVA burned me out on the status quo of Codex Tyrant.
Ive gotta ask, why a 5+ save GW? It'd be a shame if a stiff breeze went towards these guys:
Looking sweet!
As an opponent, I don't know whether I would want to kill them or collect them.
Frozocrone wrote: jy2, I heard rumours of a Domanitrix being sculpted. Can't confirm, but hey, if it's true it's something to look forward to.
That would be awesome! In the fluff, the Dominatrix is supposed to be as big as or maybe even bigger than the bio-titan! Will be interesting to see how they (GW) can fit her into the codex, but if they do, I hope she goes more the way of the wraithknight than the Tau Supremacy suit (in other words, hope she's OP!).
Tyran wrote: Are you implying that the Supremacy suit isn't OP?
Yes, that is correct. He is actually pretty balanced, unlike the Wraithknight or the Tau'nar. He has firepower, but in exchange, gives up resiliency and is quite killable.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hold on.....
I take it back. I got the Supremacy suit mixed up with the Stormsurge. Oops my bad. Let me re-revise my statement.
I hope she goes more the way of the wraith knight than the Stormsurge.
Good to see ya man. Been a very busy half a year or so for me but now I'm back playing.
Any big chances I should know about guys? I was here for when the Toxicrene and that lot dropped, anything new since that point? Also, I know nothing about other Dex's, anything new and scary for us out there?
Good to see ya man. Been a very busy half a year or so for me but now I'm back playing.
Any big chances I should know about guys? I was here for when the Toxicrene and that lot dropped, anything new since that point? Also, I know nothing about other Dex's, anything new and scary for us out there?
I think you were here for the release of Eldar and Space Marines. Both are really good but we can deal with them.
Then the new Dark Angels came out and all I can say is...wow!!! Ravenwing is just plain ruthless. You better have ways to ignore cover in order to deal with them, otherwise, you will lose. It is because of them why I am running more mawlocs in my list currently. I am also considering swapping out 1-2 egrubs for the other thorax weapons in my list in order to deal with them.
And then coming up very, very soon....the new Tau! You can bet they are going to be a handful.
Oh, and yeah, there are already rumours coming out about the new Tyranids. Suffice to say, this thread may be done in a few months.
Good to see ya man. Been a very busy half a year or so for me but now I'm back playing.
Any big chances I should know about guys? I was here for when the Toxicrene and that lot dropped, anything new since that point? Also, I know nothing about other Dex's, anything new and scary for us out there?
I think you were here for the release of Eldar and Space Marines. Both are really good but we can deal with them.
Then the new Dark Angels came out and all I can say is...wow!!! Ravenwing is just plain ruthless. You better have ways to ignore cover in order to deal with them, otherwise, you will lose. It is because of them why I am running more mawlocs in my list currently. I am also considering swapping out 1-2 egrubs for the other thorax weapons in my list in order to deal with them.
And then coming up very, very soon....the new Tau! You can bet they are going to be a handful.
Oh, and yeah, there are already rumours coming out about the new Tyranids. Suffice to say, this thread may be done in a few months.
I caught Space Marines, missed Eldar and Ravenwing... And damn Ravenwing are that tough now huh, how do they do it? In a Lictor-less list, are you including Mawloc's regardless to give you some cover-ignoring coverage?
And wow, new Tyranids already, we certainly got a lot of love this edition, even if they did a halfbaked job with some of it.
You gotta make sure to make a Pt.2 of this thread!
I caught Space Marines, missed Eldar and Ravenwing... And damn Ravenwing are that tough now huh, how do they do it? In a Lictor-less list, are you including Mawloc's regardless to give you some cover-ignoring coverage?
And wow, new Tyranids already, we certainly got a lot of love this edition, even if they did a halfbaked job with some of it.
Eldar are pretty darn powerful. I even wrote an early tactica about them here (right when their new codex came out):
Competitive Ravenwing is pretty much broken. You can basically have an army composed entirely of units with re-rollable 2+ cover. It's as simple as this....you can't bypass their cover, you can't win.
It is basically a denial army that also hits very hard. Mawlocs can potentially hit hard, ignores cover and are pretty resilient for their cost. I also love their mobility as well as their Hit-&-Run ability. It's actually a good though somewhat unbalanced Take-All-Comer's list.
You gotta make sure to make a Pt.2 of this thread!
1000pt ITC (Missions 1-3) tournament next weekend.
Is there anything else I can do to min/max this for bugs?
Leviathan:
3x Dev/Electro Flyrant
3x Mucolid
Venomthrope
3x Sporemine
4x Sporemine
Mawloc w/Adrenal Glands
It can of course drop the mines and glands for a Malanthrope, but then I cant safely null deploy. However, at 1000 pts, how important is it to have that ability?
And on a side note, whatever happened to Exocrines? No one brings them over Mawlocs anymore?
Iechine wrote: 1000pt ITC (Missions 1-3) tournament next weekend.
Is there anything else I can do to min/max this for bugs?
Leviathan:
3x Dev/Electro Flyrant
3x Mucolid
Venomthrope
3x Sporemine
4x Sporemine
Mawloc w/Adrenal Glands
It can of course drop the mines and glands for a Malanthrope, but then I cant safely null deploy. However, at 1000 pts, how important is it to have that ability?
And on a side note, whatever happened to Exocrines? No one brings them over Mawlocs anymore?
Null-deployment is really dependent on the meta. If in your area, you have a lot of hard-hitting alpha-strike armies (especially those that can ignore cover), then null deployment can be really good. However, if you don't normally play against those types of armies, then it is almost always better to start your flyrants on the table so that they can do damage from the get-go.
Personally, I'd take the malanthrope. If you absolutely have to null-deploy, you can always just walk him on from your board edge.
Exocrines have been proven to be uncompetitive, at least in my books. Mawlocs provide a lot more utility, including the flexibility to null-deploy more effectively.
^ Makes sense to me, I'll probably run that then. I will say, my list has almost no answer to the 'right' Cron list. : / But I dont see too many ways to change that.
If I cut electro, I could be that guy and bring 4 tyrants.
Iechine wrote: 1000pt ITC (Missions 1-3) tournament next weekend.
Is there anything else I can do to min/max this for bugs?
Leviathan:
3x Dev/Electro Flyrant
3x Mucolid
Venomthrope
3x Sporemine
4x Sporemine
Mawloc w/Adrenal Glands
It can of course drop the mines and glands for a Malanthrope, but then I cant safely null deploy. However, at 1000 pts, how important is it to have that ability?
I only like the Exocrines in the Node, otherwise they are a bit lacking.
And on a side note, whatever happened to Exocrines? No one brings them over Mawlocs anymore?
Null-deployment is really dependent on the meta. If in your area, you have a lot of hard-hitting alpha-strike armies (especially those that can ignore cover), then null deployment can be really good. However, if you don't normally play against those types of armies, then it is almost always better to start your flyrants on the table so that they can do damage from the get-go.
Personally, I'd take the malanthrope. If you absolutely have to null-deploy, you can always just walk him on from your board edge.
Exocrines have been proven to be uncompetitive, at least in my books. Mawlocs provide a lot more utility, including the flexibility to null-deploy more effectively.
Iechine wrote: ^ Makes sense to me, I'll probably run that then. I will say, my list has almost no answer to the 'right' Cron list. : / But I dont see too many ways to change that.
If I cut electro, I could be that guy and bring 4 tyrants.
No, don't do that (unless it's one of "those" tournaments). 3 flyrants at 1K is already over-the-top to most people. 4 will only make you "that guy".
On the other hand, if you want a list that can deal with Necrons and Ravenwing better, consider this:
Entered a small 2k tournie last week and rules were emailed out.
Nothing out of the ordinary except we MUST take a LOW choice in our armies.
Due to the high cost, I'll have to shape the army around what I take.
So 2k points and I must have a LOW.
First I was tempted with a barbed h. As its cheap and cheerful and deletes HP quickly.
However, I see a ton of D being used.
Since alot of it is template based, is it worth paying the premium and throwing in a harridan instead?
Want to avoid losing my LOW early on.
Model wise I have all except the hierophant, but he will be here in time.
The harridan is fine. Mr iNcontrol actually won a GT with a Harridan-based army. He actually beat me with some shenanigans. He took the Fighter Ace on his Harridan and got the "fly-off-the-table" trait. Needless to say, I couldn't even target him. He would come in, shoot and then fly off the table on my turn only to come in again next turn.
Run some flyrants with the Harridan. I'd also recommend a unit of gargoyles to go into the Harridan.
Thanks guys.
Off the top of your heads, are there any S weapons that aren't blast?
Anything with a D weapon that's non blast needs to go quickly.
Can't risk a well aimed shot taking it down.
In regards to flyrants, I'm guessing the usual 2xTLD ones?
Also, is there anything I should be weary of trick or unit wise that could cause me any headaches for the harridan?
Jackal wrote: Thanks guys.
Off the top of your heads, are there any S weapons that aren't blast?
Anything with a D weapon that's non blast needs to go quickly.
Can't risk a well aimed shot taking it down.
In regards to flyrants, I'm guessing the usual 2xTLD ones?
Also, is there anything I should be weary of trick or unit wise that could cause me any headaches for the harridan?
The trick with the Harridan + Harpies is that the turn you go Gliding with him (and move no more than 6"), the gargoyles can disembark and then assault due to the Harridan being open-topped. Thus, that can be very useful to certain shooty armies. Then next turn, the Harridan can assault as well if you need him to.
Thanks again guys.
I guess those targets need to take priority then.
The supremacy suit could be a bit of a nightmare as its something I've yet to go against and at a glance, its has some solid rules!
WKs really aren't an issue anyore, learned to pod hormies so kitted up, they don't do too badly.
And due to looking insignificant, they get ignored quite a bit in favour of better targets.
I'll have a tinker with some ideas and drop the list on here for c&c.
Jackal wrote: Thanks again guys.
I guess those targets need to take priority then.
The supremacy suit could be a bit of a nightmare as its something I've yet to go against and at a glance, its has some solid rules!
WKs really aren't an issue anyore, learned to pod hormies so kitted up, they don't do too badly.
And due to looking insignificant, they get ignored quite a bit in favour of better targets.
I'll have a tinker with some ideas and drop the list on here for c&c.
Thanks again guys.
Oops. I didn't mean the Tau'nar Supremacy suit. His D is a blast, though he certainly is dangerous. I meant his smaller cousin, the Stormsurge, who has a 10" D shot.
In any case, if the Tau opponent doesn't bubble-wrap them properly, an assault by your gargoyles can potentially take them out of action for the rest of the game.
Hi guys, quick poll. I'm running skyblight and am wondering whether to take HVCs, STCs or one of each on my Harpies. I acknowledge that the STC is a better gun, but am concerned about armour - I only have 3 Flyrants egrubs and smash attacks to hurt AV13/14, whereas I have 3x 2 TLdevs, a mawloc and Crone already dealing str6 hits. Opinions on which gun to take welcome!
Something to consider is that often turn 1/2 your flyrants need to be egrubbing whatever high armor/payload threat there is on the board. So while you do have a plethora of S6 devs, often they arent being used to whittle down the soft targets you're up against at first. The STC can fill this gap.
With he exception of Battle Company, transport-spam just isn't as common anymore, at least not in my meta. I'd go with the STC on the Harpy. Flyrants crack open the transports. Harpies shoot the guys that spill out. However, if you're still seeing a lot of vehicles in your meta, then get the HVC.
Benlisted wrote: Hi guys, quick poll. I'm running skyblight and am wondering whether to take HVCs, STCs or one of each on my Harpies. I acknowledge that the STC is a better gun, but am concerned about armour - I only have 3 Flyrants egrubs and smash attacks to hurt AV13/14, whereas I have 3x 2 TLdevs, a mawloc and Crone already dealing str6 hits. Opinions on which gun to take welcome!
I think the math works out to HVC cannon doing about 1 Hullpoint a game, assuming it has 6 turns to shoot. This one isn't even a contest IMO, go with the gun that stands a chance to actually do something
I've used HVC harpies foe skyblight specifically for flank shots on knights. between 3 flyrants, missiles and VS from the crones, and two harpies on different sides, it forces the opponent to have no good options on where to put his shields.
Here is a live update of my attempt at clamming a Back to Back win with Tyranids at this tournament. I thought I would share as it is Tyranid stuff lol.
The bracket is up at this link www.40kambassadors.com/coverage.php
Looks like I have Space wolves as my 1st opponent. His list link here. www.40kambassadors.com/files/2015/Space-Wolves-Michael-Corbetts.pdf
The will be updated live I was told. We should have Live Video footage on one of the tables as well. It may not be the best footage but you will see some games.
Won that 1k tournament today. Missions were ITC 1, 2, and 3 respectively.
My first game was against Daemons, and he promptly seized the initiative, then rolled an 11 on warp storm table, with one of my Tyrants going pop right off the bat.
So played that game with 760pts. : / Still managed to max it.
Second game was against Mechanicus, had really luke warm dice throughout but pulled off a win.
Last game was vs Orks that was really close, with my Warlord being forced to land to take the relic due to time, with a mob of Knobs nearby. They thankfully failed their 5" charge, even killed 1 with overwatch, so held it on my last game turn.
I could not for the life of me get Maelstrom objectives that I needed, that was a nightmare the whole day. Also, for each of the three times I tried to Electroshock a vehicle, I promptly rolled a 1.
Didn't win a tournament, but managed 9th with skyblight last weekend, going 4:1. Turns out STCs were a decent choice heh. Loss was to scatbike spam which had first turn against me, and final game was against another Nid player who, who, poor guy, only got one Scream whilst I had it on every flyrant...
I had some spare points and took a Mawloc, which barely did anything all 5 games - dunno what I would have replaced it with. Having 5 obsec units which can opt to deepstrike (2 ripper broods) was really valuable to grab objectives at the end of each game - that's the real value of skyblight imo. Also tried an escape hatch on the bunker I was using for the comms - which was invaluable to keep said obsec off until as late as possible. The hatch itself wasn't all that great, my idea being to catapult first the malanthrope and then gargoyles forward, but I might have just been placing objectives and the bunker suboptimally.
Hi guys, I have a ton of models from 3rd - 5th Edition. With all the new kits that have been released over the past 2 years as well as reboxing, I was wondering what base sizes the following models currently come with?
What base size do the new Zoanthropes, Venomthropes, Biovores, Lictors, Ravenors, Tyranid Warriors, Tyrant Guard and Hive Guard come on?
40mm is the size Tyranid Medium Bugs traditionally came on, correct? Looks like I won't have to rebase quite as many figures as I originally feared...Or toss as much of my custom foam.
FWIW I just want to say that I'm impressed because in my mind you rattled that off immediately without checking any references.
Out of curiosity, anyone having decent luck with Raveners? I'm wondering if the preponderance of D may have settled the Pacific Rim meta a bit, or just generally encouraged people to field more units that are less vulnerable to caring if they insta-die from a shot like that.
Playing an Apocalypse game tomorrow against things like a Gladius, maybe Battle Company, Skyhammer almost for sure and other Imperial forces. Likely 1500-2000pts per player and 5+ players on their team. I am the only Tyranid player on the opposing team but likely going to be working alongside Eldar and Daemons. Maybe Tau. Eldar is almost surely using Scatbikes and 2+ Wraithknights with 2500+ points to play with and I expect them to be threat #1 to the Imperium team, leaving my Nids largely left alone from an Alpha Strike from Skyhammer and Thunderfire Cannons.
This is essentially everything I have, so I can't change much. I never got onboard with the new Nids as much and most of my list is 3rd Edition by choice. I can't get any new models by tomorrow evening except maybe one more Venomthrope. More like I'm wondering what strategies I can pull using what I have, if they should be rearranged in Detachements for added benefit. 3000pts is the max, but I might be dropped down to 2500 or 2000 depending on last minute appearances for the Xenos team. What doesn't make the cut if I need to drop down? I would prefer not to cut the walking Tyrant for fluff reasons. Other than that, I'm not attached to anything. I've had good luck castling up behind good terrain and very very bad luck trying to swarm. My Meta slaughters little guys but I had to fill the points somehow so Genestealers... Warlord is either the Walking Tyrant or the fully tooled up Flyrant. I haven't decided actually.
SharkoutofWata wrote: Playing an Apocalypse game tomorrow against things like a Gladius, maybe Battle Company, Skyhammer almost for sure and other Imperial forces. Likely 1500-2000pts per player and 5+ players on their team. I am the only Tyranid player on the opposing team but likely going to be working alongside Eldar and Daemons. Maybe Tau. Eldar is almost surely using Scatbikes and 2+ Wraithknights with 2500+ points to play with and I expect them to be threat #1 to the Imperium team, leaving my Nids largely left alone from an Alpha Strike from Skyhammer and Thunderfire Cannons.
This is essentially everything I have, so I can't change much. I never got onboard with the new Nids as much and most of my list is 3rd Edition by choice. I can't get any new models by tomorrow evening except maybe one more Venomthrope. More like I'm wondering what strategies I can pull using what I have, if they should be rearranged in Detachements for added benefit. 3000pts is the max, but I might be dropped down to 2500 or 2000 depending on last minute appearances for the Xenos team. What doesn't make the cut if I need to drop down? I would prefer not to cut the walking Tyrant for fluff reasons. Other than that, I'm not attached to anything. I've had good luck castling up behind good terrain and very very bad luck trying to swarm. My Meta slaughters little guys but I had to fill the points somehow so Genestealers... Warlord is either the Walking Tyrant or the fully tooled up Flyrant. I haven't decided actually.
Grabbed up the strategic asset for three Spore Chimneys granting 12" of Shrouded. My Tyranids took the vast majority of the hits from the Imperials and survived it all. The gaunts kept a pack of Thunderwolves and three Dreadnoughts from hitting the Wraithknights, the Flyrants and Genestealers took every Objecive within range and held them and for purely cinematic reasons, I landed my 3rd Edition Forge World on the center Fortress (used as ruins only) to end the game in a rousing Xenos victory. Strategic Objectives were I think around 8-4, and my Tyranids secured 5 of those points and opened up another one to be taken by Eldar Turboboosting.
Amazingly enough, the Broodlords took the cake in my book, absorbing WAY more than their cost in income fire. The Broodlord from Manufactorum lost its broods, but got a 2+ cover in the enemy deployment zone to distract blobs of Heavy Bolters, Sentinels, Guard Platoons and an Assassin. The Children of Cryptus took incoming fire from an Imperial Knight and lost a total of two Genestealers all game, killed Logan Grimnar, cleared up a path for bigger things to fight overhead while refusing to die. The Flyrants struck key targets and just refused to fall, taking some fire that might have otherwise gone into the Wraithknights.
With D Weapons on the table, there wasn't much need for my Haywire Templates. Most of my targets were strategic instead of big ticket kills. A Guardsman squad here, a Terminator squad there, punishing anything in their way but letting the Eldar handle killing big names. Allies were considered Desperate Allies for this game, so no downsides of having Nids close to Eldar and there's no question that they benefit each other hugely. My army was very well built to compliment my teammates for protection and threat saturation. Not so much outright damage dealing.
Uploaded some pictures of the armies in my gallery. Poor quality and I quickly got too busy to even think about taking more as the game went on. Nearly every model on the table was painted and I can honestly say mine were the worst done of the bunch. It was a friggin blast. 12000pts per team and some Daemons showed up randomly to inflict more pain on everyone involved.
Great job! Yeah, Tyranids can be some great facilitators. They actually synergize well with other armies especially if built to complement them.
And with Shrouding, they're actually pretty dang resilient. But it boggles the mind how they are almost always shot at first even when there are other deadlier units around. I guess some people just have a unnatural fear/loathing of the bugs.
Below are a couple of 1000 point lists I would be likely to play based on the collection I have listed in the previous post. Looking for some new ideas.
I know it may not be the most competitive and I need to double check the math. Gotta game this weekend against Corsairs.
I would definitely run dual flyrants. At 1000, that's most of the synapse that you need. That plus the Malanthrope would be all that you need.
Personally, I prefer the rippers as little deep-striking objective cappers. With obsec, they're insanely annoying if your opponent doesn't bubble-wrap his objectives correctly. Even if he does, it's still a good time because you can use your flyrants to shoot a hole in the bubble and then run in and get the objective anyhow.
The reason why I like this list is because your opponent has nothing good to shoot at. Worried about giving up first blood? Reserve the lictor. With the Malanthrope holding the Carnifex's hand as it moves up, it's getting a 3+ cover save if you have ANY sort of cover, and if you're obscured by a wall, or standing in ruins/rubble, you get 2+ cover even if you're not obscured. The flyrants can start in ruins/rubble near the malanthrope, and should ALWAYS have 2+ cover to start the game, so even if your opponent has a lot of long-ranged firepower you often will force him to go first because you can handle it just fine
luke1705, thanks for the list.
This is the kind of direction I am looking for as I tend to always run with predictable gaunts.and lean HQs.
This looks really efficient and I will give it a try.
So a lot of new Tau is known to us at this point, maybe its time to start discussing tactica.
I'm reading that most of our problems with Tau have gotten worse, and that markerlights have added on SD potential to their list of reasons to die first.
The superheavy we simply cant kill, and in an 1850 list containing one I forsee a really, really rough matchup.
The Ghost keels disrupting the fire of our main unit in Codex: Flyrant sounds like a pain, since volume of fire is really what they have going for them.
Assaulting is still the quick and easy way to pop their suits, but being on the ground without taking advantage of our cover saves means our measly 3+ armor isnt going to let us stay alive for long.
So theres a few of the immediate problems I'm seeing. I see some old standby's, like massive Gargoyle broods working (from a Skyblight, even better) What are some other potential Tau solutions?
luke1705 wrote: I would definitely run dual flyrants. At 1000, that's most of the synapse that you need. That plus the Malanthrope would be all that you need.
Personally, I prefer the rippers as little deep-striking objective cappers. With obsec, they're insanely annoying if your opponent doesn't bubble-wrap his objectives correctly. Even if he does, it's still a good time because you can use your flyrants to shoot a hole in the bubble and then run in and get the objective anyhow.
The reason why I like this list is because your opponent has nothing good to shoot at. Worried about giving up first blood? Reserve the lictor. With the Malanthrope holding the Carnifex's hand as it moves up, it's getting a 3+ cover save if you have ANY sort of cover, and if you're obscured by a wall, or standing in ruins/rubble, you get 2+ cover even if you're not obscured. The flyrants can start in ruins/rubble near the malanthrope, and should ALWAYS have 2+ cover to start the game, so even if your opponent has a lot of long-ranged firepower you often will force him to go first because you can handle it just fine
I like the list, and that would be the list that I would normally make.
However, I've got an alternate list for your consideration:
Dakka Flyrant w/Egrubs
Dakka Flyrant w/Egrubs
3x Rippers w/DS Mucolid
Dakkafex
Dakkafex
Tyrannocyte
Tyrannocyte
It's a more shooty list with a slightly more flexible deployment due to fexes in pods. Against a fast army like Eldar Corsairs, I think this type of list might do slightly better. The only downside is that it is more reliant on Reserve Rolls and its ability to take a strong alpha-strike is weaker due to the absence of the malanthrope. But this type of list packs 6 MC's and more mobile hitting power.
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Iechine wrote: So a lot of new Tau is known to us at this point, maybe its time to start discussing tactica.
I'm reading that most of our problems with Tau have gotten worse, and that markerlights have added on SD potential to their list of reasons to die first.
The superheavy we simply cant kill, and in an 1850 list containing one I forsee a really, really rough matchup.
The Ghost keels disrupting the fire of our main unit in Codex: Flyrant sounds like a pain, since volume of fire is really what they have going for them.
Assaulting is still the quick and easy way to pop their suits, but being on the ground without taking advantage of our cover saves means our measly 3+ armor isnt going to let us stay alive for long.
So theres a few of the immediate problems I'm seeing. I see some old standby's, like massive Gargoyle broods working (from a Skyblight, even better) What are some other potential Tau solutions?
I might do a tactica when the new Tau Campaign book comes out like I did with Eldar. Basically, our strategy isn't going to change much against the new Tau. Some key points from my early, early observations.
1. Don't bother with assault units against Tau. Their shooting has gotten much, much better and they don't even need to rely on Markerlights! Basically, some of their formations comes with increased BS and Ignores Cover for free! Moreover, the Signature Systems for a Commander (like Monster Hunter and/or Ignores Cover) can apply not to just 1 unit, but an entire formation!
2. Flyrants are still are go-to unit against the new Tau. The new Tau have become better shooters, but all their increased BS is still wasted when snap-firing. I also don't see them taking any more Skyfire than they did previously. Flyrants are still effective against them.
3. Deathstars/big hordes will die to them very quickly. Don't bother running either against them (at least not Tyranid deathstars, which suck pretty badly).
4. Psychic powers will still screw them over. Powers like the Horror and Paroxysm will be your go-to powers. Scream not as much anymore due to their ability to spread out better than before (now Supporting Fire will be 12" in their "Decurion" detachment as opposed to 6" currently).
5. If they focus down on a unit, they'll kill it pretty quickly. So don't run large blocks of units (i.e. large hordes). MSU is the way to go against them.
I might do a tactica when the new Tau Campaign book comes out like I did with Eldar. Basically, our strategy isn't going to change much against the new Tau. Some key points from my early, early observations.
1. Don't bother with assault units against Tau. Their shooting has gotten much, much better and they don't even need to rely on Markerlights! Basically, some of their formations comes with increased BS and Ignores Cover for free! Moreover, the Signature Systems for a Commander (like Monster Hunter and/or Ignores Cover) can apply not to just 1 unit, but an entire formation!
2. Flyrants are still are go-to unit against the new Tau. The new Tau have become better shooters, but all their increased BS is still wasted when snap-firing. I also don't see them taking any more Skyfire than they did previously. Flyrants are still effective against them.
3. Deathstars/big hordes will die to them very quickly. Don't bother running either against them (at least not Tyranid deathstars, which suck pretty badly).
4. Psychic powers will still screw them over. Powers like the Horror and Paroxysm will be your go-to powers. Scream not as much anymore due to their ability to spread out better than before (now Supporting Fire will be 12" in their "Decurion" detachment as opposed to 6" currently).
5. If they focus down on a unit, they'll kill it pretty quickly. So don't run large blocks of units (i.e. large hordes). MSU is the way to go against them.
Psychic and MSU definitely rule the day. Got to try and make them waste as much firepower as possible. They have a RIDICULOUS amount of ignores cover, however, which is a real issue since that was really all we had going for us. They have been (and will continue to be) a thorn in our sides. Honestly, I would take 3 Mawlocs against them in a heartbeat. Disallows the ghostkeels countermeasures and cover save since they're not being targeted (and it ignores cover).
Marker lights can improve the BS of snap shots, though, so our Flyrants are definitely in trouble. Take them, of course, and kill the marker lights first (what else is new?) and you can stand a decent chance. Otherwise, it's going to be rough sledding
I might do a tactica when the new Tau Campaign book comes out like I did with Eldar. Basically, our strategy isn't going to change much against the new Tau. Some key points from my early, early observations.
1. Don't bother with assault units against Tau. Their shooting has gotten much, much better and they don't even need to rely on Markerlights! Basically, some of their formations comes with increased BS and Ignores Cover for free! Moreover, the Signature Systems for a Commander (like Monster Hunter and/or Ignores Cover) can apply not to just 1 unit, but an entire formation!
2. Flyrants are still are go-to unit against the new Tau. The new Tau have become better shooters, but all their increased BS is still wasted when snap-firing. I also don't see them taking any more Skyfire than they did previously. Flyrants are still effective against them.
3. Deathstars/big hordes will die to them very quickly. Don't bother running either against them (at least not Tyranid deathstars, which suck pretty badly).
4. Psychic powers will still screw them over. Powers like the Horror and Paroxysm will be your go-to powers. Scream not as much anymore due to their ability to spread out better than before (now Supporting Fire will be 12" in their "Decurion" detachment as opposed to 6" currently).
5. If they focus down on a unit, they'll kill it pretty quickly. So don't run large blocks of units (i.e. large hordes). MSU is the way to go against them.
Psychic and MSU definitely rule the day. Got to try and make them waste as much firepower as possible. They have a RIDICULOUS amount of ignores cover, however, which is a real issue since that was really all we had going for us. They have been (and will continue to be) a thorn in our sides. Honestly, I would take 3 Mawlocs against them in a heartbeat. Disallows the ghostkeels countermeasures and cover save since they're not being targeted (and it ignores cover).
Marker lights can improve the BS of snap shots, though, so our Flyrants are definitely in trouble. Take them, of course, and kill the marker lights first (what else is new?) and you can stand a decent chance. Otherwise, it's going to be rough sledding
We do have one thing going for us. Because of the abundance of Ignores Cover and +BS in the various formations, I actually see Tau players running LESS markerlights. That is good news for our flyers (but not so for any of our other units).
A word of caution, however. It is fun. It also also a very optimized and competitive Tyranid list. If your group (or rather, your friend) is casual competitive, you might want to go with just 1 dakkafex in a pod and something else. Otherwise, he might be overwhelmed.
Iechine wrote: So a lot of new Tau is known to us at this point, maybe its time to start discussing tactica.
I'm reading that most of our problems with Tau have gotten worse, and that markerlights have added on SD potential to their list of reasons to die first.
The superheavy we simply cant kill, and in an 1850 list containing one I forsee a really, really rough matchup.
The Ghost keels disrupting the fire of our main unit in Codex: Flyrant sounds like a pain, since volume of fire is really what they have going for them.
Assaulting is still the quick and easy way to pop their suits, but being on the ground without taking advantage of our cover saves means our measly 3+ armor isnt going to let us stay alive for long.
So theres a few of the immediate problems I'm seeing. I see some old standby's, like massive Gargoyle broods working (from a Skyblight, even better) What are some other potential Tau solutions?
Also one thing to keep in mind with the Tau formations is that they are expensive. The Basic Hunter Cadre formation clocks in I believe at around 600 points bare minimum and that's with minimum firewarrior squads and single-suit Crisis teams, which even with all the special rules isn't going to kill much. If you want to get anything out of it you're looking at close to 1000 points just for the basic formation. Anything less than that and you really aren't taking advantage of the bonuses very well. The other ones aren't exactly cheap either. I think at 1500-1850 you're looking at 2-3 formations. If they fill out the basic a bit to take advantage then possibly only 2. The Optimised Stealth Cadre is probably the cheapest of them, but is at least 310 points. At 1500 all you'll probably see if a fuller Basic formation and Optimised Stealth Cadre.
It's not amazing but it does help. Also make sure the table has plenty of terrain. Not for cover, but to break line of sight so the formation can't all fire at one unit. If that unit of firewarriors can't see you then they can't combine their firepower with the Commander.
Iechine wrote: So a lot of new Tau is known to us at this point, maybe its time to start discussing tactica.
I'm reading that most of our problems with Tau have gotten worse, and that markerlights have added on SD potential to their list of reasons to die first.
The superheavy we simply cant kill, and in an 1850 list containing one I forsee a really, really rough matchup.
The Ghost keels disrupting the fire of our main unit in Codex: Flyrant sounds like a pain, since volume of fire is really what they have going for them.
Assaulting is still the quick and easy way to pop their suits, but being on the ground without taking advantage of our cover saves means our measly 3+ armor isnt going to let us stay alive for long.
So theres a few of the immediate problems I'm seeing. I see some old standby's, like massive Gargoyle broods working (from a Skyblight, even better) What are some other potential Tau solutions?
Also one thing to keep in mind with the Tau formations is that they are expensive. The Basic Hunter Cadre formation clocks in I believe at around 600 points bare minimum and that's with minimum firewarrior squads and single-suit Crisis teams, which even with all the special rules isn't going to kill much. If you want to get anything out of it you're looking at close to 1000 points just for the basic formation. Anything less than that and you really aren't taking advantage of the bonuses very well. The other ones aren't exactly cheap either. I think at 1500-1850 you're looking at 2-3 formations. If they fill out the basic a bit to take advantage then possibly only 2. The Optimised Stealth Cadre is probably the cheapest of them, but is at least 310 points. At 1500 all you'll probably see if a fuller Basic formation and Optimised Stealth Cadre.
It's not amazing but it does help. Also make sure the table has plenty of terrain. Not for cover, but to break line of sight so the formation can't all fire at one unit. If that unit of firewarriors can't see you then they can't combine their firepower with the Commander.
Seeing as mot the players on here seem to run at 1850, the Hunter cadre is going to be pretty solid.though I think comp. play will be seeing more of the Retailiation + Optimzed Stealth shenanigans.
Not so sure about that. I think hunter cadre is still stronger because of the +1 BS buff that it unlocks, not just for itself but for all of the other formations. To take the hunter contingent you need a hunter cadre, but by taking the hunter cadre you get all of the other formations to benefit from the + 1 BS buff so long as at least 3 units are shooting at that same target. That's pretty big, and you can take everything from the retaliation cadre anyhow. All you lose is relentless broadsides. That's not nothing, but if buffmander is within 12" of the broadsides, they can run and then shoot anyhow so that does help their mobility.
Hey everybody, I'm planning out my next TSHFT army, and I want to give a good old swarm a try, like real swarm. I expect it will be quite the challenge to manage games in two and half hours, but I want to give it a go. List will be below, along with some of the basic plans I had for use. I would love to hear any suggestions that you guys might have for tweaks to make it better, or faster to deploy and use. (One of the reason for no psykers is to save time.)
To make the set up a touch faster, 20 gaunts (or the 17 gaunts + prime) Will go in the bunker. Dima on top, malanthrope behind. Bunker gets placed so one entrance should be just inside 6" from the board edge. (returning units can hop in and escape hatch out farther their second turn.) Crone, second malanthrope go wherever best cover is. Carnifex as able, with one malanthrope or the other. Swarm fills all the cracks, giving better cover to those behind, and getting cover from malanthropes. Warrior squad and trygon are in reserve. No surprise, everything moves forward quickly as possible. Infiltrating bombs put pressure and more targets on enemy front lines. Escape hatch lets me move many things forward quickly. Malanthrope #1 goes in the box turn one after the gaunts leave to boost his bubble, and then move him far up the field turn two. Trygon prime creates a crater for re-born units to use as a table edge later in the game. Anti-tank was an issue in the first versions of this list that I came up with. Sacrificing some of the raw numbers I added the dima for counter GC/super heavy tanks, the crone for a nod towards AA, and the stone crusher as a sneaky super weapon. Let me know what you all think. Any adjustments or tactics that might emphasize speed of play for a mass list.
seapheonix wrote: Hey everybody, I'm planning out my next TSHFT army, and I want to give a good old swarm a try, like real swarm. I expect it will be quite the challenge to manage games in two and half hours, but I want to give it a go. List will be below, along with some of the basic plans I had for use. I would love to hear any suggestions that you guys might have for tweaks to make it better, or faster to deploy and use. (One of the reason for no psykers is to save time.)
To make the set up a touch faster, 20 gaunts (or the 17 gaunts + prime) Will go in the bunker. Dima on top, malanthrope behind. Bunker gets placed so one entrance should be just inside 6" from the board edge. (returning units can hop in and escape hatch out farther their second turn.) Crone, second malanthrope go wherever best cover is. Carnifex as able, with one malanthrope or the other. Swarm fills all the cracks, giving better cover to those behind, and getting cover from malanthropes. Warrior squad and trygon are in reserve. No surprise, everything moves forward quickly as possible. Infiltrating bombs put pressure and more targets on enemy front lines. Escape hatch lets me move many things forward quickly. Malanthrope #1 goes in the box turn one after the gaunts leave to boost his bubble, and then move him far up the field turn two. Trygon prime creates a crater for re-born units to use as a table edge later in the game. Anti-tank was an issue in the first versions of this list that I came up with. Sacrificing some of the raw numbers I added the dima for counter GC/super heavy tanks, the crone for a nod towards AA, and the stone crusher as a sneaky super weapon. Let me know what you all think. Any adjustments or tactics that might emphasize speed of play for a mass list.
I see problems with the Dima on top of the bunker. I guess you are wanting to escape hatch it? I don't think Dima can even the building to use the escape hatch as it is an MC. Other than that looks like a good start. Oh and you need one more brood og Termaguants. Everything but an old epub version of the formation list it as 3 termie, 3 hormie and 1 Warrior.
Ah, well thanks about the termagants. Mine was from the first x-mas release I believe. As to the dima, it is a "leaping" mc, so much like jump infantry can hop off the building.
As to a third termagant squad. Hmm. Do I drop all ten devourers from the small squad, or do I drop half the devourers, and steal the five dummy gants?
Actually, I think I will make all three squads 10 gants with 5X devourers. That spreads it out and makes each unit dangerous and disposable.
seapheonix wrote: Hey everybody, I'm planning out my next TSHFT army, and I want to give a good old swarm a try, like real swarm. I expect it will be quite the challenge to manage games in two and half hours, but I want to give it a go. List will be below, along with some of the basic plans I had for use. I would love to hear any suggestions that you guys might have for tweaks to make it better, or faster to deploy and use. (One of the reason for no psykers is to save time.)
To make the set up a touch faster, 20 gaunts (or the 17 gaunts + prime) Will go in the bunker. Dima on top, malanthrope behind. Bunker gets placed so one entrance should be just inside 6" from the board edge. (returning units can hop in and escape hatch out farther their second turn.) Crone, second malanthrope go wherever best cover is. Carnifex as able, with one malanthrope or the other. Swarm fills all the cracks, giving better cover to those behind, and getting cover from malanthropes. Warrior squad and trygon are in reserve. No surprise, everything moves forward quickly as possible. Infiltrating bombs put pressure and more targets on enemy front lines. Escape hatch lets me move many things forward quickly. Malanthrope #1 goes in the box turn one after the gaunts leave to boost his bubble, and then move him far up the field turn two. Trygon prime creates a crater for re-born units to use as a table edge later in the game. Anti-tank was an issue in the first versions of this list that I came up with. Sacrificing some of the raw numbers I added the dima for counter GC/super heavy tanks, the crone for a nod towards AA, and the stone crusher as a sneaky super weapon. Let me know what you all think. Any adjustments or tactics that might emphasize speed of play for a mass list.
I think the list looks interesting up until you reach the point of MCs, I've thought of running something similar myself. You do definitely want a Trygon, but a Dima possibly and a Fex definitely are just going to be way too slow, the horde will race ahead of them and get shot first before they can catch up. Similarly, the Crone seems out of place - it's your only flier, and generally massing them is a far more effective option - either it gets ignored or it gets focused and dies very quickly.
If you want anti-tank I'd consider giving the Warriors RCs to clear off backfield pods (one can have a Barbed Strangler so they can shoot) - and take a Zoanthrope or two, the guaranteed warp lance is good and cheap synapse is invaluable in a list like this. Honestly, Flyrants would fill the anti-tank gap very well as well, you can't go wrong with them.
I'd try out just running minimum units of Termas initially, the Devourers are good but generally you'll want them deployed after the Hormas, and it makes getting in range a bit of a pain. Also consider Toxin Sacs on the Hormas, as they really are pretty awful in CC even in large numbers, though it is expensive. You will definitely want AG on the Prime if he's maybe going with the Hormas, otherwise you'll lose fleet. And also consider the Maw-Claws to give your blobs Pref Enemy after a kill, much like the Malanthropes.
I think the list looks interesting up until you reach the point of MCs, I've thought of running something similar myself. You do definitely want a Trygon, but a Dima possibly and a Fex definitely are just going to be way too slow, the horde will race ahead of them and get shot first before they can catch up. Similarly, the Crone seems out of place - it's your only flier, and generally massing them is a far more effective option - either it gets ignored or it gets focused and dies very quickly.
If you want anti-tank I'd consider giving the Warriors RCs to clear off backfield pods (one can have a Barbed Strangler so they can shoot) - and take a Zoanthrope or two, the guaranteed warp lance is good and cheap synapse is invaluable in a list like this. Honestly, Flyrants would fill the anti-tank gap very well as well, you can't go wrong with them.
So the monstrous creatures sure enough are for the concern of anti-tank. What do I do if I'm facing knights, or anybody with a couple of tanks even. My gaunts, and gants, (the greater portion of my army) can't even glance a rhino, let alone a drop pod. Rending claws on the warriors, they move at the same pace as the monstrous creatures, but they need 6's to do more then glance said av 10. With drop pods, still need a 5/6 to pen. Against knights, really no chance. Zoanthropes being in the elite space remove my malanthropes, taking away my cover saves from the army, and once again, moving at the same speed as the MCs. Now we have slowed down my mass list by adding the psychic phase. Similar with the hive tyrant. I'm not totally opposed to adding psychic powers, and the hive tyrant is about the best option it seems, however I've had very poor luck with flyrants in really making their points back unless there are so many other things already in my opponents face they can't deal with him. Even so, the hive tyrant still doesn't handle those now seemingly common super heavies. Zoats, flyrants, and such belong in the list I run full of drop pods. (in my opinion.)
I will keep your advice in mind however as I start to get practice games in, and will try tweaking it that way if my MCs just get eaten too quickly, without any returns. The particular choice of the crone, dima, and stone wrecker fex are that they are specifically there for heavy armor, and for super heavies.
Crone with it's long range haywire can at least be a distraction for enemy fliers to shoot down first, it's heavy flamer also should do well cooking tau and the like. I don't expect to get a ton out of it, just enough distraction and a hull point or two. Gone are the days when one shot killed vehicles. (Unless you have D, or fire dragons)
Dimachaeron is there to go toe to toe with GCs, and to help the fex if there are any knights around. It's going to be a fantastic looking model, so I won't be shocked if it becomes a center piece for enemy fire. (Thus why it starts on top of the bunker and gets a 2+ cover.)
Stone wrecker is largely there to surprise people. One of the few things nids can take that can wreck a vehicle in one attack. (D3 ap2 hammer of wrath at str 10) Anyone who tarpits with zombies (lots of heretic armies around here.) Will be sad to find it gets as many attacks as the guys in base to base with it, and against the carapace armor, they can not cause a wound.
I expect that two out of those three will get taken out at some point in the game, but that should leave one of the three threats alive, and if the MCs are being focused on, my synapse, and my hordes are not.
I'd try out just running minimum units of Termas initially, the Devourers are good but generally you'll want them deployed after the Hormas, and it makes getting in range a bit of a pain. Also consider Toxin Sacs on the Hormas, as they really are pretty awful in CC even in large numbers, though it is expensive. You will definitely want AG on the Prime if he's maybe going with the Hormas, otherwise you'll lose fleet. And also consider the Maw-Claws to give your blobs Pref Enemy after a kill, much like the Malanthropes.
I'm not sold on the toxin sacs. They used to be great, but since you no longer get the re-roll for anything that is the same toughness, I need the adrenal glands to get a re-roll just on GEQ. If I'm fighting GEQ without adrenal glands, then the poison is useless. If I'm fighting MEQ with adrenal glands and poison, the poison is useless. I can see the adrenal because it lets me glance vehicles and makes a direct impact, and if I find after a couple of test games that the deveourers are not pulling there weight, that might be a direction to send those points in. Toxin sacs in seventh though are close to useless in my book for the points that they cost.
Now the devourers, that's to give my gaunts just a little bit of a bite, preferably at extreme range turn two, or if I'm lucky before that. If they are shooting buckets of dice at people, they tend to re-direct fire towards them. Then when they come back and port through the trygon tunnel, they have an arrival turn impact, and again, they draw fire, likely right at the time that my offense is smashing into the enemy.
So the monstrous creatures sure enough are for the concern of anti-tank. What do I do if I'm facing knights, or anybody with a couple of tanks even. My gaunts, and gants, (the greater portion of my army) can't even glance a rhino, let alone a drop pod. Rending claws on the warriors, they move at the same pace as the monstrous creatures, but they need 6's to do more then glance said av 10. With drop pods, still need a 5/6 to pen. Against knights, really no chance. Zoanthropes being in the elite space remove my malanthropes, taking away my cover saves from the army, and once again, moving at the same speed as the MCs. Now we have slowed down my mass list by adding the psychic phase. Similar with the hive tyrant. I'm not totally opposed to adding psychic powers, and the hive tyrant is about the best option it seems, however I've had very poor luck with flyrants in really making their points back unless there are so many other things already in my opponents face they can't deal with him. Even so, the hive tyrant still doesn't handle those now seemingly common super heavies. Zoats, flyrants, and such belong in the list I run full of drop pods. (in my opinion.)
I will keep your advice in mind however as I start to get practice games in, and will try tweaking it that way if my MCs just get eaten too quickly, without any returns. The particular choice of the crone, dima, and stone wrecker fex are that they are specifically there for heavy armor, and for super heavies.
Crone with it's long range haywire can at least be a distraction for enemy fliers to shoot down first, it's heavy flamer also should do well cooking tau and the like. I don't expect to get a ton out of it, just enough distraction and a hull point or two. Gone are the days when one shot killed vehicles. (Unless you have D, or fire dragons)
Dimachaeron is there to go toe to toe with GCs, and to help the fex if there are any knights around. It's going to be a fantastic looking model, so I won't be shocked if it becomes a center piece for enemy fire. (Thus why it starts on top of the bunker and gets a 2+ cover.)
Stone wrecker is largely there to surprise people. One of the few things nids can take that can wreck a vehicle in one attack. (D3 ap2 hammer of wrath at str 10) Anyone who tarpits with zombies (lots of heretic armies around here.) Will be sad to find it gets as many attacks as the guys in base to base with it, and against the carapace armor, they can not cause a wound.
I expect that two out of those three will get taken out at some point in the game, but that should leave one of the three threats alive, and if the MCs are being focused on, my synapse, and my hordes are not.
Against Knights you either tarpit them with respawning Gaunts, or fly flyrants up either side/behind. He can only cover one facing with the shield and you get to shoot devourers into both. That's beside the point though, as your current units are not all that great VS a knight. A crone gets to vector strike it once and slowly fire the missles which have under a 50% of glancing per. A stonecrusher will never be able to get near any mobile vehicle unless your opponent is reckless. A Dima probably has the best shot of closing the distance and doing damage, but even that risks D and is better used murdering characters and suchlike. The sad fact is we simply don't have all that much to reliably deal with superheavies - flyrants are probably our best bet VS Knights though. Gargantuans the Dima is better VS I do admit, but again D and stomps are a concern.
Warriors are not meant to be able to kill pods efficiently, just make it so you don't have to waste other things dealing with them as the warriors can - in my use of the Endless Swarm the warriors are generally not all that useful. With 2 RC/ST warriors and one barbed strangler you should be able to down a pod in two turns of combat assuming my mental math is correct. You still have one elite slot left - I'm suggesting that you put a zoan or two in there, though perhaps that wsn't too clear. If you have issues with psychic just only cast what you really need, and if you need to speed the game up move the front gaunt in your turn, then in your opponent's follow it up with the reat of the squad, saves tons of time.
I'm not sold on the toxin sacs. They used to be great, but since you no longer get the re-roll for anything that is the same toughness, I need the adrenal glands to get a re-roll just on GEQ. If I'm fighting GEQ without adrenal glands, then the poison is useless. If I'm fighting MEQ with adrenal glands and poison, the poison is useless. I can see the adrenal because it lets me glance vehicles and makes a direct impact, and if I find after a couple of test games that the deveourers are not pulling there weight, that might be a direction to send those points in. Toxin sacs in seventh though are close to useless in my book for the points that they cost.
Now the devourers, that's to give my gaunts just a little bit of a bite, preferably at extreme range turn two, or if I'm lucky before that. If they are shooting buckets of dice at people, they tend to re-direct fire towards them. Then when they come back and port through the trygon tunnel, they have an arrival turn impact, and again, they draw fire, likely right at the time that my offense is smashing into the enemy.
Toxin is not for fighting GEQ. Point for point it's very similar to bare hormas VS MEQs as well. Its at T5+ that it pays dividends, and this is where the purpose of the hormas changes. You use it to drown high toughness things in wounds - things like Cents, MCs and GCs even. You put 15 wounds on a WK with 20 hormas, and statistically 3.333 will stick. With poison Hormas the aim is that you don't need a Dima or similar to deal with GCs. Adrenal on the other hand is generally not worth it - yeah you can glance AV10, but if you have flyrants or similar you really don't need that ability. I could see running one squad of AG hormas perhaps, but no more than that.
Devs are indeed nice via Trygon tunnels I will admit. The problem is that on the board the enemy can generally easily avoid them. I do really like them, but you need to choose where to invest - go full hog on the swarm or add in some other stuff. You could swap to minimum hormas for fast obj grabbers and run bigger terma blobs, even.
I'm hoping Mawlocs stay the same in the new Tyranid Codex that is rumoured for Q1 2016, or at least terror from the deep. Thanks to the Kauyon book you can guarantee Ignore Cover/Hit and Run for the White Scars Relics/CT, so you only need to worry about getting Invisibility and Prescience off (Librarius Conclave comes to mind). Maybe Gates if you want to DS around the place.
seapheonix wrote: Hey everybody, I'm planning out my next TSHFT army, and I want to give a good old swarm a try, like real swarm. I expect it will be quite the challenge to manage games in two and half hours, but I want to give it a go.
I've tested this list under ITC rules, and while it felt pretty strong I could'nt get in 5 turns under the time limits. I'm a slow player, but maybe you could do it -
9 sources of synapse and two forward points of entry for returning units. No teeth to speak of, it wins by playing the mission and cover the board in critters. Expect to lose on kill points.
Won against a triple IK list with Flyer formation backup. Hormagaunts move and run and surround stuff, they don't necessarily charge.
I like the idea of just surrounding imperial knights. and not charging them. Holds them up for another turn, and they risk shooting themselves in the foot. The time crunch is a primary concern of mine for the games.
seapheonix wrote: Hey everybody, I'm planning out my next TSHFT army, and I want to give a good old swarm a try, like real swarm. I expect it will be quite the challenge to manage games in two and half hours, but I want to give it a go.
I've tested this list under ITC rules, and while it felt pretty strong I could'nt get in 5 turns under the time limits. I'm a slow player, but maybe you could do it -
9 sources of synapse and two forward points of entry for returning units. No teeth to speak of, it wins by playing the mission and cover the board in critters. Expect to lose on kill points.
Won against a triple IK list with Flyer formation backup. Hormagaunts move and run and surround stuff, they don't necessarily charge.
I am working on a very similar list (rippers for obsec, 1 non-prime trygon). Glad to hear it worked well. Not surprised it plays slow.
Jy2's review on the front page pretty much sums it up. No and no, is your short answer.
While I like the concept of the maleceptor, the execution of its design is rather flawed. Basically, the maleceptor is a psychic Tyranid unit who provides psychic firepower as well as Synapse support. Now before I get into why he is flawed, I'd like to discuss why you may want to consider him in your army and how you could use him.
1. He is a support unit that provides Synapse and Shadows coverage for the army. He contributes to the warp dice pool.
2. His main offense, the Psychic Overload psychic power, is one of the very few weapons in the Tyranid arsenal that ignores cover. It is also a focussed witchfire, meaning he has the chance to snipe out particular models in a unit.
3. Psychic Overload actually makes for a nice combo with Shadows in the Warp against enemy psykers, especially solitary units like monstrous creatures or the very annoying Eldar farseer with the Mantle.
4. He is still a monstrous creature, which makes him a threat to enemy infantry and tanks.
5. Psychic Overload isn't his only power. He also gets Dominion and another randomly generated power.
6. He has an Invulnerable save, which makes him just slightly more survivable in close combat, but only to units with power weapons and such.
7. Since his shooting is all done in the psychic phase, he can target a different unit than he wants to assault, and he can run even after "shooting". - tag8833
Despite his force-multiplier capabilities, what makes him so flawed?
1. Be design, he sucks up more warp dice than he generates. He's like a psychic vacuum, only he kills your own warp pool instead of your opponents. He can cast Psychic Overload up to 3 times against different opponents. Problem is, Psychic Overload is a WC2 power. To even cast it semi-reliably, you're going to have to use 4 dice. If you want to cast it 3 times, you're going to expend about 12 dice. Well, the maleceptor only contributes 2 dice to the warp pool so in essence, you will be taking valuable dice away from the other psychic units in the army to cast his powers. The maleceptor is a rare unit indeed. Instead of being a force-multiplier, or a unit that helps the army overall, he is actually a force-divider.
2. Psychic powers just aren't reliable enough. Using 4 dice gives him a 75% chance at success only and then the opponent gets a chance to deny. Now normal targets will have a hard time, but against a psychic target, they are denying on a 5+. And against a psychic unit with a Lvl 3 psyker in it, he is going to be very easily able to deny on a 4+. And then they would have to fail a LD test, even if it is on 3D6. A LD10 target will fail his test only about half of the times.
3. Poor Ballistic Skill. On top of the unreliability that are psychic powers, he still has to hit on 4's due to being BS3 only. Now if psychic shooting was his secondary offense, it wouldn't be so bad. But because his psychic shooting IS his offense, you need something more reliable, which is what he isn't.
4. 4+ save? Are you kidding me? What the heck were the designers thinking? All of the land-based Tyranid MC's have 3+ saves and the toxicrene has Shroud for a potential 2+/3+ cover, but 4+ on a ground MC makes him quite a glass cannon MC. You HAVE to keep him within range of a malan/venomthrope, at least if you want to keep him alive from enemy shooting. In Assault, this guy can be killed by any marine with a krak grenade. There isn't another TMC that is quite as fragile as the maleceptor.
5. He is expensive. For a unit as fragile as he is and whose offense is as unreliable as his, he just isn't worth the points. Even if the maleceptor were to come down by 50-pts, I'd have to think about whether I would use him or not, but at his current cost, he is a no-brainer. Actually, let me shorten that for you. He is a NO. For any of his roles, almost every other unit in the codex can do it more efficiently.
6. Psychic Overload can only kill one model at the most. It targets a model not a unit, and that model (if it fails leadership) takes D3 wounds, but extras do not carry over to the unit. - tag8833
The concept of a brain-bug is cool, but GW really dropped the ball on the unit design. Fortunately for them, you can build the kit as the toxicrene instead, so it's not a total loss. But in terms of the maleceptor, that guy is pure fail with a capital F.
Iechine wrote: Jy2's review on the front page pretty much sums it up. No and no, is your short answer.
While I like the concept of the maleceptor, the execution of its design is rather flawed. Basically, the maleceptor is a psychic Tyranid unit who provides psychic firepower as well as Synapse support. Now before I get into why he is flawed, I'd like to discuss why you may want to consider him in your army and how you could use him.
1. He is a support unit that provides Synapse and Shadows coverage for the army. He contributes to the warp dice pool.
2. His main offense, the Psychic Overload psychic power, is one of the very few weapons in the Tyranid arsenal that ignores cover. It is also a focussed witchfire, meaning he has the chance to snipe out particular models in a unit.
3. Psychic Overload actually makes for a nice combo with Shadows in the Warp against enemy psykers, especially solitary units like monstrous creatures or the very annoying Eldar farseer with the Mantle.
4. He is still a monstrous creature, which makes him a threat to enemy infantry and tanks.
5. Psychic Overload isn't his only power. He also gets Dominion and another randomly generated power.
6. He has an Invulnerable save, which makes him just slightly more survivable in close combat, but only to units with power weapons and such.
7. Since his shooting is all done in the psychic phase, he can target a different unit than he wants to assault, and he can run even after "shooting". - tag8833
Despite his force-multiplier capabilities, what makes him so flawed?
1. Be design, he sucks up more warp dice than he generates. He's like a psychic vacuum, only he kills your own warp pool instead of your opponents. He can cast Psychic Overload up to 3 times against different opponents. Problem is, Psychic Overload is a WC2 power. To even cast it semi-reliably, you're going to have to use 4 dice. If you want to cast it 3 times, you're going to expend about 12 dice. Well, the maleceptor only contributes 2 dice to the warp pool so in essence, you will be taking valuable dice away from the other psychic units in the army to cast his powers. The maleceptor is a rare unit indeed. Instead of being a force-multiplier, or a unit that helps the army overall, he is actually a force-divider.
2. Psychic powers just aren't reliable enough. Using 4 dice gives him a 75% chance at success only and then the opponent gets a chance to deny. Now normal targets will have a hard time, but against a psychic target, they are denying on a 5+. And against a psychic unit with a Lvl 3 psyker in it, he is going to be very easily able to deny on a 4+. And then they would have to fail a LD test, even if it is on 3D6. A LD10 target will fail his test only about half of the times.
3. Poor Ballistic Skill. On top of the unreliability that are psychic powers, he still has to hit on 4's due to being BS3 only. Now if psychic shooting was his secondary offense, it wouldn't be so bad. But because his psychic shooting IS his offense, you need something more reliable, which is what he isn't.
4. 4+ save? Are you kidding me? What the heck were the designers thinking? All of the land-based Tyranid MC's have 3+ saves and the toxicrene has Shroud for a potential 2+/3+ cover, but 4+ on a ground MC makes him quite a glass cannon MC. You HAVE to keep him within range of a malan/venomthrope, at least if you want to keep him alive from enemy shooting. In Assault, this guy can be killed by any marine with a krak grenade. There isn't another TMC that is quite as fragile as the maleceptor.
5. He is expensive. For a unit as fragile as he is and whose offense is as unreliable as his, he just isn't worth the points. Even if the maleceptor were to come down by 50-pts, I'd have to think about whether I would use him or not, but at his current cost, he is a no-brainer. Actually, let me shorten that for you. He is a NO. For any of his roles, almost every other unit in the codex can do it more efficiently.
6. Psychic Overload can only kill one model at the most. It targets a model not a unit, and that model (if it fails leadership) takes D3 wounds, but extras do not carry over to the unit. - tag8833
The concept of a brain-bug is cool, but GW really dropped the ball on the unit design. Fortunately for them, you can build the kit as the toxicrene instead, so it's not a total loss. But in terms of the maleceptor, that guy is pure fail with a capital F.
Grades: F
Well poop, thanks for the reply, guess he will be converted into a Hive tyrant or carnafex
@NIB. Fair enough, why not is a pretty good reason for anything, but what is getting put in the spores to do some good? I read you as having four empty spores, which while alright, it's a lot of stuff, your getting less then half the function you want out of them.
If you aren't putting anything in them, why not just get the sporocyte instead. You get to place it better then the drop pod, you still can't assault anything, but at least in addition to having the weapons, you have the spores and mucolid popping out. It could man the aegis with a comms relay that you would want to make everything come in somewhat together.
seapheonix wrote: @NIB. Fair enough, why not is a pretty good reason for anything, but what is getting put in the spores to do some good? I read you as having four empty spores, which while alright, it's a lot of stuff, your getting less then half the function you want out of them.
If you aren't putting anything in them, why not just get the sporocyte instead. You get to place it better then the drop pod, you still can't assault anything, but at least in addition to having the weapons, you have the spores and mucolid popping out. It could man the aegis with a comms relay that you would want to make everything come in somewhat together.
Yo dawg, heard you like Russian dolls, so we put a Tyrannocyte in your Tyrannocyte so you can Russian doll while you Russian doll
seapheonix wrote: @NIB. Fair enough, why not is a pretty good reason for anything, but what is getting put in the spores to do some good? I read you as having four empty spores, which while alright, it's a lot of stuff, your getting less then half the function you want out of them.
If you aren't putting anything in them, why not just get the sporocyte instead. You get to place it better then the drop pod, you still can't assault anything, but at least in addition to having the weapons, you have the spores and mucolid popping out. It could man the aegis with a comms relay that you would want to make everything come in somewhat together.
Correct, 4 empty spores, one of them will be the Barbed Strangler because of the good range of the gun. The empty pods would likely be dropped on backfield/midfield objectives.
Sporocytes are definately an option instead of two empy Tcytes (as I've got two heavy slots left).
And any fortification with Comms is normally what you want in a pod list, this list is merely a test to see if quantity has a quality of its own when it comes to Tyrannocytes. Empty pods can still move around and be in the way which is an important part of most games.
Tyrannocyte with Barbed Stranglers
Tyrannocyte with Barbed Stranglers
Tyrannocyte with Barbed Stranglers
Tyrannocyte with Barbed Stranglers
Tyrannocyte with Barbed Stranglers
So ive been playing my daemons for what seems like far too long and have decided.to pull my nids out. I've been toying with lictor shame for a while but haven't found what I would call an ideal list and also at £15.50 per lictor it's rather expensive. Here's my take on lictor shame.
bobmgee wrote: So ive been playing my daemons for what seems like far too long and have decided.to pull my nids out. I've been toying with lictor shame for a while but haven't found what I would call an ideal list and also at £15.50 per lictor it's rather expensive. Here's my take on lictor shame.
Spoiler:
TYRANID CAD HQ Dakka Flyrant
E grubs
Dakka Flyrant
E grubs
ELITES
Venomthrope
TROOPS
Mucolid
Mucolid
Mucolid
HEAVY SUPPORT
Mawloc
Mawloc
LEVIATHAN DETATCHMENT
HQ Dakka Flyrant
E grubs
Dakka Flyrant
E grubs
TROOPS
Mucolid
Mucolid
Mucolid
DEATH LEAPER ASSASSIN BROOD
Deathleaper
5 X lictors
BASTION
Comms relay
I like it. When I run my list, it's very similar to that one; however instead of deathleaper, I just run 5 normal lictors. I use the points that I save to upgrade the venomthrope to a Malanthrope (which is a big deal when the building starts taking some hits). I did that under the two source format, which is nice in the event that you're limited in that fashion
Worth pointing out that in addition, you save exactly enough points to upgrade the mucolids in your CAD to rippers. Deep striking Obsec is nice. Precision deep striking near one of your lictors is even better
Iechine wrote: You never know, next codex he might shoot psychic strength D weapons out of his arse, it all depends on how many they want to sell.
GW isn't smart enough to realize that overpowered rules equals more sales, otherwise they would have made it overpowered in the first place.
For units to be overpowered, other units must unfortunately be underpowered, one is not possible without the other.
Guess which side of the stick we got.
True, but one would expect that the shiny new models would have good to overpowered rules to help business while older models are the ones getting the other side of the stick.
Iechine wrote: You never know, next codex he might shoot psychic strength D weapons out of his arse, it all depends on how many they want to sell.
GW isn't smart enough to realize that overpowered rules equals more sales, otherwise they would have made it overpowered in the first place.
For units to be overpowered, other units must unfortunately be underpowered, one is not possible without the other.
Guess which side of the stick we got.
True, but one would expect that the shiny new models would have good to overpowered rules to help business while older models are the ones getting the other side of the stick.
That's more or less been the case since the Necron Codex. It might not be the ones that we WANT to be more viable, but an increase in viability has definitely been seen with very few exceptions for each codex. Does this mean that the internal balance is great? No, but any given unit is much more viable, especially in light of the older codices and it is totally possible that once the dust settles and we have CSM, Nids Daemons and IG updated to 7th, we could see one of the greatest amounts of genuine parity that GW has granted us in many years. I think part of this is due to them just releasing more things than you can shake a stick at, so some of it is bound to work.
Going to a local ITC event at 1850 on Saturday. I won the last one, hopefully I can do a repeat.
Bringing 2 CAD's,
4xFlyrant with Devs/electro (Except one, for points)
4x Mucolid
Malanthrope
2xMawlocs
Exocrine
2x Dakkafex
Lots and lots of shooting. I just miss Carnifexes and I've never used the Exocrine I bought awhile back. Maybe Ill miraculously get some Terminators out in the open with it, but hopefully it will instead be a Distractionfex in itself.
If I run in to Necrons or Superfriends, oh well I guess.
Iechine wrote: Going to a local ITC event at 1850 on Saturday. I won the last one, hopefully I can do a repeat.
Bringing 2 CAD's,
4xFlyrant with Devs/electro (Except one, for points)
4x Mucolid
Malanthrope
2xMawlocs
Exocrine
2x Dakkafex
Lots and lots of shooting. I just miss Carnifexes and I've never used the Exocrine I bought awhile back. Maybe Ill miraculously get some Terminators out in the open with it, but hopefully it will instead be a Distractionfex in itself.
If I run in to Necrons or Superfriends, oh well I guess.
Looking forward to hearing how you do. About how many people will attend do you think?
I have no idea, its a FLGS west of Baltimore, and Ive only been there once for the last one, so I dont have any statistics. They seem to have a busy facebook page, so hopefully its a good turnout.
This will probably be the last one I do for a while, I havent played in over a month and Im a little bored with Codex Flyrant, but I dont want to buy more models to mix things up.
I feel that lechine. Sad times boys. I saw your army at Nova, priceless! They looked great.
I have been going back to my Salamanders until the new Codex hits. I own 5 Flyrants with the common loadout and as competitive as it is, it can get a wee bit boring.
Jy2 , how,would you deal with Wraithknights? Also how would you deal with the new Tau? I recently won a RTT with 3 Flyrants , 2 Dakka Fexes , 2 Crones , 2 pods , Mawloc ,3 Spores and a Dimacheron . It would have been 3 tablings had the 2nd game gone 6 turns.
Round 1: DA Plasma bike spam , 31 Flyrant hits to kill 1 bike!! Then the Mawloc came in and took out the command bike squad which caused him to lose momentum
Round 2: Khorne ! Couple land raiders and lots of hounds ..... Dakka ... Dakka ... Last LR was surrounded by 5 MC's ... Smash!
Round 3: Sisters , everything went right in this one . Tentaclids were on target and his Avenger never came in.
Post tournament thoughts... All 3 players were good players (especially the sisters player) and brought competitive lists. In 3rd had the Avenger come in I might have had a problem. However we will be switching formats to ITC. Which will bring in a MUCH more competitive crowd. This will mean Wraithkinights , Maxed Eldar cheese etc. My. Nids are WYSIWYG and beautifully painted so I would like to use them. Any suggestions as to what I should now bring?
Iechine wrote: Scored 10 out of 11 first round, about to go against skyway tau with kroot and two riptides and 6 missilesides.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Saythings wrote: I feel that lechine. Sad times boys. I saw your army at Nova, priceless! They looked great.
.
Hey thanks man!
Good luck man!
Thanks dude, we ended up tying with him pulling maelstrom by one, unfortunately. But mawlocs and exocrine was on fire, and pulled well away on kill points. Had we had time for 5 turns he would have probably been tabled or close to it.
Waiting on the last game now, if he maxes this round he'll take first by one point. : /
Automatically Appended Next Post: Sure enough, he scored 28 total points to my 27. Ah well, sometimes it comes down to the wire.
Haldir wrote: Jy2 , how,would you deal with Wraithknights? Also how would you deal with the new Tau? I recently won a RTT with 3 Flyrants , 2 Dakka Fexes , 2 Crones , 2 pods , Mawloc ,3 Spores and a Dimacheron . It would have been 3 tablings had the 2nd game gone 6 turns.
Round 1: DA Plasma bike spam , 31 Flyrant hits to kill 1 bike!! Then the Mawloc came in and took out the command bike squad which caused him to lose momentum
Round 2: Khorne ! Couple land raiders and lots of hounds ..... Dakka ... Dakka ... Last LR was surrounded by 5 MC's ... Smash!
Round 3: Sisters , everything went right in this one . Tentaclids were on target and his Avenger never came in.
Post tournament thoughts... All 3 players were good players (especially the sisters player) and brought competitive lists. In 3rd had the Avenger come in I might have had a problem. However we will be switching formats to ITC. Which will bring in a MUCH more competitive crowd. This will mean Wraithkinights , Maxed Eldar cheese etc. My. Nids are WYSIWYG and beautifully painted so I would like to use them. Any suggestions as to what I should now bring?
To sum up, when playing against Eldar, target prioritization is very important. In the case of WK's, deathstars like a buffed up seer council and other hard-to-kill Eldar units, better to ignore them and go after easier-to-kill threats first. Only when you have no other easy-to-kill targets should you go after these hard-to-kill units. When you do, focus on 1 unit at a time.
For more details, you can check out my Tyranid tactica against Eldar:
You play against the new Tau the same way you do against the old Tau, by focusing on 1 unit at a time. Stay to the air for your flyrants. Anything that's on the ground will die a dreadful death. Use reserve tactics like mawlocs and dakkafexes in spores. Make sure you have units you can hide if you decide to null deploy.
Thanks dude, we ended up tying with him pulling maelstrom by one, unfortunately. But mawlocs and exocrine was on fire, and pulled well away on kill points. Had we had time for 5 turns he would have probably been tabled or close to it.
Waiting on the last game now, if he maxes this round he'll take first by one point. : /
Automatically Appended Next Post: Sure enough, he scored 28 total points to my 27. Ah well, sometimes it comes down to the wire.
Though winning for the Hive Mind would have been glorious, 2nd is still very good. Congrats!
Got a Zone Mortalis coming up against Legion rules World Eaters. Terminators are guaranteed so my Children of Cryptus are making an appearance. For those that don't know, Zone Mortalis rules say no Vehicles, no MCs bigger than a current Hive Tyrant base (I think that's 60mm?), no Deep Strike other than materialization and teleportion and no Swooping/Zooming.
Looking at:
Walking Tyrant with Miasma Cannon, Sword and Whip, Shreddershard Beetles and Indescribable Horror.
1 Naked Tyrant Guard
2 separate Zoanthropes
Children of Cryptus
7x Genestealer Brood w/ Broodlord
4x Raveners with Rending Claws, Devourers and the Red Terror
I considered swarming the table with gribblies but 1) I don't want to be that guy in such tight confines... Moving 30 models is annoying on a normal table. Trying in the confines of Zone Mortalis is just impossible. 2) Against 30k World Eaters with Chainaxes, they'll just die without even being a speedbump. They'll get in my way more than they'll get in my opponent's. I did consider Warriors though, and swapping a Zoa for a Lictor. 160pts of Warriors isn't crap, but it's not great either. And, a 4+ Save doesn't help against the Chainaxes that World Eaters are known for...
I'm getting a real Hunter/Hunted vibe going, where the game will tip depending on the dice of the first big combat and who can get the charge. In that maze, it will be challenging.
Couple notes, World Eaters aren't Fearless, and Fear is a big thing in the 30k World. Indescribable Horror and the crap power The Horror might be useful this match, which is why I spent more points on the Broodlords. And templates are +1 Strength, which is why the E-Shock have been replaced with the Shreddershard. S4 with Rending is pretty much the baseline for the entire army so adding more is always nice. Zoas are running to try to keep the Raveners in Synapse. Shouldn't be too difficult on a 4x4 table but who knows.
Any Zone Mortalis veterans got some ideas for me? Something I'm missing or something better than what's given? Should I load up on more 5 man Broods of Genestealers instead of a 160pt brood and the Children?
Haldir wrote: Thanks for the advice jy2. Has anyone tried physic shriek combined with shadows against seer council?
It can definitely work. It'll only reduce them to LD 8 unless every model in the unit is a psyker, which isn't really necessary any longer. Also, getting the power is pretty situational. With enough Flyrants, you should have at least one, but that's still not going to do as much as you think. Average roll is 9. Their LD is 8. Maybe they have forewarning.
If you really wanted to stick it to seer council (and didn't care about being fluffy) ally in a Culexus. Watch them be sad
Update to the Zone Mortalis game: played as Defender against World Eaters. Ended up being 1500pts to allow more 30k models since they're so pricey. Threw in about 20 more Genestealers, a Carnifex with Bioplasma and other things that don't matter. I'll get to that.
Enemy list was two Tactical squads, each with 20 guys and nearly all with AP4 Chainaxes because World Eaters. Kharn, because my opponent was nice enough not to include Angron who I had no way to deal with in a game type without Flyrants. Two Terminator squads because it's practically Space Hulk. A Seige Dreadnought with an Inferno Cannon. That thing scared the crap out of me so I avoided it like the plague. Kharn and one of each squad type were in Reserves. Carnifex and most of my Genestealers were in Reserve.
Played Sabotage, where my opponent had to destroy five spore cysts (Objectives) that were AV11. 1 point per cyst, his if he kills them, my point if he doesn't. And First Blood actually played a big role. He got the deployment side and killed two on Turn 1. If he got First Blood, best I could have done was a tie.
But, some clever running like a coward kept my Genestealers out of LOS for a charge with his 20 man squad.
King was the Red Terror. Being the beast in a Challenge and having the ability to Gulp saved the day against the 30k Sergeants that get AP4 for the price of a Chainsword and Artificer Armor. Ignored the armor and swallowed that guy whole before the World Eater even got a chance to swing. It was beautiful and cemented his place in any Cityfight or Zone Mortalis game type. Anything where there's endless cover and line of sight blocking. A simultaneous charge between the four Raveners with the Terror and five Genestealers won combat and made the 20 man Tactical Squad fall back and get swept away. Children of Cryptus killed their Terminator Squad on the Rending hits alone, and I NEVER roll that well so I was friggin impressed.
Sadly, we were cut short before the rest of my army could get in there, and it was his second match of the day so we will do a repeat performance. I expect to use the same list, maybe with more upgrades instead of an additional Broodlord (for a total of three in my list), but it finally felt like how Tyranids used to be. Sweeping units, being able to get to combat without losing 80% of the squads, flanking and out maneuvering and getting hit hard AFTER you hit harder.
Played in the UKGT heat last weekend. 4 Nid players there, and amusingly our success was directly proportional to number of flyrants in the list. 6 did best, 4 next best, me third with 3 (very similar list to the one posted above, 3 flyrants, 5 lictors and 2 mawlocs), and the guy with none 4th. He did take a hierophant though so!
Played Sabotage, where my opponent had to destroy five spore cysts (Objectives) that were AV11. 1 point per cyst, his if he kills them, my point if he doesn't. And First Blood actually played a big role. He got the deployment side and killed two on Turn 1. If he got First Blood, best I could have done was a tie.
Why? What about linebreaker and slay the warlord? Personally I always try to have an odd amount of objectives to avoid the draw and I can really see nids pulling through in zone mortalis because you can get those charges off and hit hard when you do.
Either way, excited to hear about the rematch, seemed like it was a fun match up
Line breaker wasn't a secondary Objective actually. It surprised me to have it missing. I didn't take into account Slay the Warlord. I'd have had to keep all my cysts safe and kill Kharn if he had gotten that First Blood. Which would have put me very far on the back foot.
SharkoutofWata wrote: Got a Zone Mortalis coming up against Legion rules World Eaters. Terminators are guaranteed so my Children of Cryptus are making an appearance. For those that don't know, Zone Mortalis rules say no Vehicles, no MCs bigger than a current Hive Tyrant base (I think that's 60mm?), no Deep Strike other than materialization and teleportion and no Swooping/Zooming.
Looking at:
Walking Tyrant with Miasma Cannon, Sword and Whip, Shreddershard Beetles and Indescribable Horror.
1 Naked Tyrant Guard
2 separate Zoanthropes
Children of Cryptus
7x Genestealer Brood w/ Broodlord
4x Raveners with Rending Claws, Devourers and the Red Terror
I considered swarming the table with gribblies but 1) I don't want to be that guy in such tight confines... Moving 30 models is annoying on a normal table. Trying in the confines of Zone Mortalis is just impossible. 2) Against 30k World Eaters with Chainaxes, they'll just die without even being a speedbump. They'll get in my way more than they'll get in my opponent's. I did consider Warriors though, and swapping a Zoa for a Lictor. 160pts of Warriors isn't crap, but it's not great either. And, a 4+ Save doesn't help against the Chainaxes that World Eaters are known for...
I'm getting a real Hunter/Hunted vibe going, where the game will tip depending on the dice of the first big combat and who can get the charge. In that maze, it will be challenging.
Couple notes, World Eaters aren't Fearless, and Fear is a big thing in the 30k World. Indescribable Horror and the crap power The Horror might be useful this match, which is why I spent more points on the Broodlords. And templates are +1 Strength, which is why the E-Shock have been replaced with the Shreddershard. S4 with Rending is pretty much the baseline for the entire army so adding more is always nice. Zoas are running to try to keep the Raveners in Synapse. Shouldn't be too difficult on a 4x4 table but who knows.
Any Zone Mortalis veterans got some ideas for me? Something I'm missing or something better than what's given? Should I load up on more 5 man Broods of Genestealers instead of a 160pt brood and the Children?
This is the one place where Pyrovores will really shine, s6 flamer, plenty of protection to get in to flamer range. Don't for get blast also get a boost in ZM so VC, Stranglers, warp blast, and spores all get a bit nastier.
Or, to put it another way, playing assaulty Nids is kind of like playing mono-Khorne daemons - it can work, but you're fighting an uphill battle.
If you prefer a League of Legends reference (and if not, I do enough for the both of us) it's like playing AP Tristana. It could technically work. It's been done before. But unless you're Plat and everyone you're playing against is silver, it may be a bit of a struggle due to her kit and the current meta.
Anyone else think that a Carnifex should have the vehicle rules? I mean, a Carnifex is a walking tank! Here's how I think it should look
Unit composition: 1 Carnifex
BS: 3 Front armour: 13 Side armour: 14 Rear armour: 12
Transport capacity: None
Biomorphs: 2 pairs of scything talons
Special rules: Instinctive Behavior (Feed), Fearless.
Living Battering Ram: Can tank shock a unit, and inflict D3 Hammer of Wrath attacks
Options: Same as in the Codex, with these exceptions:
It can only take one monstrous bio-cannon
Um what?
I don't expect them to, but if GW make any of the TMCs into Walkers over Riptides and Dreadknights, I will flip multiple tables. Tyranids are the one army that deserve MC status for all their big toys.
KaptinBadrukk wrote: Anyone else think that a Carnifex should have the vehicle rules? I mean, a Carnifex is a walking tank! Here's how I think it should look
Unit composition: 1 Carnifex
BS: 3 Front armour: 13 Side armour: 14 Rear armour: 12
Transport capacity: None
Biomorphs: 2 pairs of scything talons
Special rules: Instinctive Behavior (Feed), Fearless.
Living Battering Ram: Can tank shock a unit, and inflict D3 Hammer of Wrath attacks
Options: Same as in the Codex, with these exceptions:
It can only take one monstrous bio-cannon
Thoughts? Improve upon it if needed.
Very un-Tyranid-like to have a Tyranid tank. All of their "tanks/transports" are actually just MC's. Better to keep it just as an MC and give it a special rule like Tank Shock or something.
KaptinBadrukk wrote: Anyone else think that a Carnifex should have the vehicle rules? I mean, a Carnifex is a walking tank! Here's how I think it should look
Unit composition: 1 Carnifex
BS: 3 Front armour: 13 Side armour: 14 Rear armour: 12
Transport capacity: None
Biomorphs: 2 pairs of scything talons
Special rules: Instinctive Behavior (Feed), Fearless.
Living Battering Ram: Can tank shock a unit, and inflict D3 Hammer of Wrath attacks
Options: Same as in the Codex, with these exceptions:
It can only take one monstrous bio-cannon
Thoughts? Improve upon it if needed.
Very un-Tyranid-like to have a Tyranid tank. All of their "tanks/transports" are actually just MC's. Better to keep it just as an MC and give it a special rule like Tank Shock or something.
Heh, Tyranid big models.... are big creatures. They fit monstrous creature tag perfectly, and make a lot of sense compared to some other "monstrous creatures"... I agree with Frozocrone
I look at my opponent's vehicles and think "damn, if only a Carnifex was that hard to kill...", and they look at my monsters and think "damn, if only my Predator was that hard to kill...". Funny really.
What we're really doing is looking at Imperial Knights, Riptides and (meh) Wraithknights thinking "why do the humanoid non-monster armies have the best giant monsters?".
Basically the Tyranid "monsters" need a big overhaul to make them back into the destructive beasts they should be. They don't all have to have the broken combination of speed, resilience and lethality the Wraithknight has, but at least two out of three would be nice.
Carnifexes for instance should be tough and killy. Trygons fast and killy. Currently, they do none of the above outside of the twinlinked Devourer role.
Dozer Blades wrote: Lol ! Most players wish tanks were monstrous critters so they can't be one shotted.
Yup right up to the moment you watch an army of MC's get insta-gibbed by GK with all those force weapons.
Then give them either EW or Gargantuan status, (or some other special rule), but making them vehicles is a terrible idea.
Altought many people have asked some sort of unified rules for MC and vehicles.
Only rule I really wanted back in the last codex drop was for synapse to give EW again. That would solve so many 'nid problems.
There were some rumours that Synapse is bringing back EW as well, though I admit that I haven't seen anything concrete.
edit.
reds8n [/quote
If ti happens my warrior lists will be back on the table so fast. The old 2 wound EW Warriors and Shrikes were so much better than the current 3 wound non-EW ones.
With the exception of giving the works to the flyrants and deep strike to rippers, I think I run almost all my units completely vanilla now. With the advent of big things that can delete expensive units with relative ease, I think that going MSU is one of our army's strengths with our great mobility (with certain units) and the ability to have pretty cheap units that are pretty durable for their cost, in the absence of ignores cover of course.
Has anyone played against the Stormsurge lately? I came back from college and played in an RTT, and this thing just blew my mind. My opponent was running it with Velocity Tracker and EWO, and it threw out an insane amount of damage. Now granted, my list only had 2 Flyrants in it as it was advertised as a holiday fun/fluff event so my list was fairly suboptimal, but this thing threw out insane amounts of damage. 8d6 skyfire S5 shots a turn was crazy, not to mention 2 S10 large blast that can instant kill a Crone. I ended up losing the game by 1 point (who else knew that Ethereals dont give up an extra VP anymore?) and my opponent had 3 units left, one the Stormsurge, but I found that I very quickly ran out of damage-dealers when my opponent had killed both my Flyrants by turn 2 and took my crones out soon after.
What are people seeing as ways to kill this thing? MSU didnt work for me very well here as my opponent can shoot this sucker twice, at all different targets. I did manage to assault it with some Rippers and tie it up for a little bit, but by then it had already done a ton of damage to my army. I am playing this opponent again next week and will be bringing a much more competitive list (no holiday spirit this time!) so I'll let you guys know what I come up with. Right now, I'm thinking just paroxysm and Scream this thing so it's less effective, and see if I can chip a few wounds off it. If he gets low on wounds I may start concentrating Flyrants on it, but I still think it's not very efficient to shoot at until Broadsides/Skyrays/Sniper Drones are all dead.
The Stormsurge (and Tau overall) is still tough for us to deal with. Fotunately taking VT on the SSIMO isn't going to be very common - most SS players will probably opt for the 4++ instead - but that really depends on whether the meta there is flyer-heavy.
Really, the best way to deal with the SS is to dakka the crap out of him, either with flyants or dakkafexes in pods. Paroxysm helps, but against the new Tau, almost anything on the ground will be dead. Unfortunately, unless Nids get better ground resiliency (that is not reliant on cover), flyrant-spam is and will continue to be our best chances against the new Tau.
jy2 wrote: The Stormsurge (and Tau overall) is still tough for us to deal with. Fotunately taking VT on the SSIMO isn't going to be very common - most SS players will probably opt for the 4++ instead - but that really depends on whether the meta there is flyer-heavy.
Really, the best way to deal with the SS is to dakka the crap out of him, either with flyants or dakkafexes in pods. Paroxysm helps, but against the new Tau, almost anything on the ground will be dead. Unfortunately, unless Nids get better ground resiliency (that is not reliant on cover), flyrant-spam is and will continue to be our best chances against the new Tau.
Yeah my opponent counters flyers a little heavily with his TAC lists since he knew I'd be there and a few other locals run flyer lists, but lets hope thats not common. I'm also really hesitant to shoot a Flyrant/Fex at the Stormsurge as a Dakkafex averages 1 wound, and a Flyrant is only slightly better.
Another trick to watch out for is Darkstrider on a Tidewall Railgun. This makes the target -1 toughness and so a S10 Railgun shot will ID a normal MC. I saw this coming when I Podded a Tyrannofex in, and so I managed to get Darkstrider to go to ground, but with markerlights he managed to hit my TFex anyways and took him out immediately, a huge blow to my army. In that case I'm still thinking that the best way to deal with this combo is to flame Darkstriders unit with Crones/TFexs and try and force them to go to ground.
Interesting thought, Darkstrider has infiltrate yes? As per the new FAQ, she can only join a unit that has infiltrate on that shield wall. So that suggests stealth suits or pathfinders. Both of those are super susceptible to your crones, flyrant w/electroshock grubs, T-Fex in a pod. All of those templates conveniently ignore cover, so there would be no point in "going to ground". Also, isn't darkstrider T3? Would not the T-fex acid spray insta-gib if it hits? Assuming a failed armor roll.
As to dealing with tau in general. I'm trying to go the far other way from MSU. Using endless swarm and spore field. I do have a lot of units, but I have high model count with over 100 models on the table. Due to escape hatch I'm going to be on your side with hormagaunts instantly (due to super run) Multiple units of spores are around due to infiltrate. Opponent is forced to fire at too many high model units. If they do die, they have a 50/50 chance of returning.
Storm surges in particular. Those are nasty. Likely a primary target of anything that I could get there. Gaunts, gants, a lucky dimachaeron? I haven't faced one yet, so I cannot say for sure how that works out. It is only toughness 6, so virtually anything in the tyranid arsenal has the potential to hurt it.
seapheonix wrote: Interesting thought, Darkstrider has infiltrate yes? As per the new FAQ, she can only join a unit that has infiltrate on that shield wall. So that suggests stealth suits or pathfinders. Both of those are super susceptible to your crones, flyrant w/electroshock grubs, T-Fex in a pod. All of those templates conveniently ignore cover, so there would be no point in "going to ground". Also, isn't darkstrider T3? Would not the T-fex acid spray insta-gib if it hits? Assuming a failed armor roll.
As to dealing with tau in general. I'm trying to go the far other way from MSU. Using endless swarm and spore field. I do have a lot of units, but I have high model count with over 100 models on the table. Due to escape hatch I'm going to be on your side with hormagaunts instantly (due to super run) Multiple units of spores are around due to infiltrate. Opponent is forced to fire at too many high model units. If they do die, they have a 50/50 chance of returning.
Storm surges in particular. Those are nasty. Likely a primary target of anything that I could get there. Gaunts, gants, a lucky dimachaeron? I haven't faced one yet, so I cannot say for sure how that works out. It is only toughness 6, so virtually anything in the tyranid arsenal has the potential to hurt it.
Darkstrider was attached to a fire warrior squad, as he was deployed normally not with the infiltrate rule. And yes he dies to flaners easily, but due to bubble wrap I could only get him with Torrent so didn't kill him, only most of his squad. At that point I put a Flyrants firepower into him and forced him to ground but didn't quite finish the unit. I'm confident that I could take him out with my normal lists though, what concerns me is the prospect of two Stormsurges with Skyfire and the inevitable Broadside/markerlight support they'll have.
seapheonix wrote: Interesting thought, Darkstrider has infiltrate yes? As per the new FAQ, she can only join a unit that has infiltrate on that shield wall. So that suggests stealth suits or pathfinders. Both of those are super susceptible to your crones, flyrant w/electroshock grubs, T-Fex in a pod. All of those templates conveniently ignore cover, so there would be no point in "going to ground". Also, isn't darkstrider T3? Would not the T-fex acid spray insta-gib if it hits? Assuming a failed armor roll.
As to dealing with tau in general. I'm trying to go the far other way from MSU. Using endless swarm and spore field. I do have a lot of units, but I have high model count with over 100 models on the table. Due to escape hatch I'm going to be on your side with hormagaunts instantly (due to super run) Multiple units of spores are around due to infiltrate. Opponent is forced to fire at too many high model units. If they do die, they have a 50/50 chance of returning.
Storm surges in particular. Those are nasty. Likely a primary target of anything that I could get there. Gaunts, gants, a lucky dimachaeron? I haven't faced one yet, so I cannot say for sure how that works out. It is only toughness 6, so virtually anything in the tyranid arsenal has the potential to hurt it.
Darkstrider does not have Infiltrate (and neither do pathfinders). What he has is Scout and a special rule that says he can only join fire warriors and pathfinders.
X078 wrote: Actually as the Surges don't have Blacksun Filters and low initiative so blinding venom on Gargoyles could be quite effective.
In my next game I'll actually be packing some Gargoyles (as part of a Skytyrant swarm) and I believe I'll be able to take out the Stormsurge with it, but once I get Gargoyles in close combat it won't be much of a problem as it'll be tarpitted for a long time anyways, unless of course my opponent simply blows away all of my gargoyles with Tau firepower.
X078 wrote: Actually as the Surges don't have Blacksun Filters and low initiative so blinding venom on Gargoyles could be quite effective.
In my next game I'll actually be packing some Gargoyles (as part of a Skytyrant swarm) and I believe I'll be able to take out the Stormsurge with it, but once I get Gargoyles in close combat it won't be much of a problem as it'll be tarpitted for a long time anyways, unless of course my opponent simply blows away all of my gargoyles with Tau firepower.
A good Tau army will excel in taking out deathstars or especially against mini-deathstars like the Skytyrant formation, especially if he is running the Hunter Contingent of a unit of Stormsurges. That's 8D6 S5 shots that will be ignoring cover thanks to Markerlights, or 16D6 shots if he is running a unit of 2. IMO gargoyles or other large Tyranid swarms will be next to useless against them unless you are running multiples of these hordes (a la the Endless Swarm formation).
for saying this but I think some form of comp 
will have to happen in the future with 
to play VS these armies as you either have the counter or you don't. Their is no stratagem involved here. No real skill. 
The main weakness of this list is lack of Synapse, so if a foe concentrates on killing your Synapse, you will do poorly. 
You can even do "OK" vs a Drop Pod force, because of the Mawlocs. 
