I wish you luck! I'm planning for a new nid book before the new year. With the current pace GW is pushing things out the door, I'd say it's very achievable.
My Matchups:
Round 1: Me + CSM vs 30 Scat Bikes + Grey Knights
Round 2: Me + Space Wolves (at his 1st ever tourney) vs 54 Scat Bikes.
Round 3: Me + Grey Knights vs 24 Scat bikes + Orks.
I guess scat bikes are officially in. 12 total players, 4 of them spamming scat bikes. 3 of the top 4 were Scat bikes, with the other top player being Necrons.
Some more details on my games:
Missions:
Spoiler:
Adepticon team missions. Maelstrom on 2 of the 3. I ended the day losing a Flyrant and 2 crones sacrificed to score objectives.
Round 1:
Spoiler:
The Scat bike player deployed 1st, and deployed in a corner of the board, so I counter deployed, and was out of his range on turn 1. He more or less shot my teammate off the table except for 2 groups of cultist hiding behind LOS blockers, and some nurgle bikers, but I was unscathed. I advanced and basically shot up the grey knights except for the Land Raider and Dread Knight. I did kill 1 unit of 5 scat bikes. By turn 4 I had tabled the scat bikes, and only lost the Venom, and both mucolids. My teammate was completely tabled minus one squad of cultists, who were scoring fools, because we kept drawing the objective they were on. I Landed all of my FMCs to score as well, and headed back for the Grey Knights. They dumped the Strike Squads out of the land raider and assaulted and killed my warlord, but I psychic screamed the survivors to death. A crone Assaulted and took the last wound off the Land Raider. At this point our opponents just had a 1 wound dread knight remaining, but the game ended on 5. We won by 2 points.
Round 2:
Spoiler:
I knew exactly how this game would go. My partner had 6 las cannon long fangs, 3 TWC with all of the upgrades, and a heavily upgraded TWIC. He also had 2 max squads of blood claws with no transport. The mission was Table quarters at the end of the game. OS units count as 2. Against us were 12 squads of OS scat bikes, and they won the roll off for table sides, and also the roll off for 1st turn. We had no LOS blockers in our deployment, and the opponents had a warlord trait of -1 to reserves. I knew I couldn't win, but figured I could drag the game out if we reserved everything, and took our chances with the 4+ reserve rolls. I figured it would be no fun for my teammate, so instead we just deployed everything.
Turn 1.
I lost a Venomthrope, 3 Flyrants 1 Crone, and took 3 wounds on my other Crone. My partner lost his TWC.
We shot back. My crone killed 3 scat bikes, my partner's long fangs killed a whole squad of 5 who failed their leadership and ran off the table.
Turn 2:
I lost my Crone. My partner lost everything he had. At this point we declared it a complete tabling even though I still had a unit of rippers, and 2 mucolids in reserves.
Wowzer. Turn 2 Tabling. That is humiliating. I stick to my guns that this was probably the best case scenario for my teammate.
Round 3:
Spoiler:
My partner was my Grey Knights opponent from round 1. We lost the roll for 1st turn. I counter deployed the Scat bikes as best I could, but there weren't great options, and no LOS blocker for the Venom big enough to giver cover to the FMCs. My warlord trait was night attacker, so I decided it was night.
Turn 1: The scat bikes that could came after me. They killed the venom, and took 3 wounds off my warlord. The Ork Shokk attack gun rolled 66 and put a Large Blast vortex in our deployment zone. It D slapped a Crone, but my Flyrant made a cover save. Thank the gods for night attacker. The lootas and Flash gitz took 3 wounds off our Dread Knight.
I returned fire. I toasted some lootas, and BBQ'd some flash gitz in a battle wagon. I popped a Trukk that was a MANZ missile. I killed 7 Scat bikes. My teammate shunted his Dread Knight, and BBQed a bunch of lootas and killed a War Walker
Turn 2: The Vortex scattered onto my teammates Land Raider and exploded it. Cue rules debate about the AP of a Vortex. It was AP from the SAG, so yes. LR dies. SAG smashes most of the survivors that came out of the LR. Lots of shots at my flyrants, lots of misses, and I made a couple of clutch saves on my 1 wound warlord. The Manz assaulted and kill my teammate's Razorback.
I shot back. Vector struck the 1 wound SAG, but rolled a one. Finished off the lootas Drooled on the flash gitz in the battle wagon. Killed about 10 Scat bikes. My teammate's marines combined to shoot and assault 4 scat bikes. His Dread Knight took one wound off a War walker, but when It tried to assault it died to overwatch.
Turn 3: My teammates marines take a lot of fire. He ends up losing all but 3.
I shot back. Killed another 7 scat bikes and 2 Manz. Vector strukk the BW but failed to glance it. Toasted some more Flash Gitz, and finished off the SAG warlord. I'm feeling pretty good about tabling my opponents, though my teammate is almost gone. However, something goes terribly wrong. My rippers deep strike onto an objective, and it turns out to be skyfire.
Turn 4: The last squad of 4 Scat bikes with the attached IC's moves onto the Skyfire objective, and put 6 saves on a full wound flyrant. I failed 4 of 6, and it dies. The the flash gitz kill my Warlord.
I shoot back, landing both my remaining FMC's to score objectives. This is the turn my mocolid finally finishes the 2nd warwalker. I shoot up the Scat bikes, but thanks to lucky / clever placement, I kill 2 Scat bikes, and he is able to LOS between the Autarch and Farseer to put a wound on both. My Crone Takes a hull point of the BW, and Drools on the Flash Gitz again.
Turn 5: The scat bike squad breaks up. The Autarch and Farseer go and kill the last 3 marines. The 2 Scatbikes manage to put 3! wounds of my last flyrant. The flash gitz get out of the wagon. He informs me that I've done 12 wounds to them, so that is 2 dead Flash gitz and a wound on all of the rest. We've been rehashing this argument the whole game. Wounds are randomly allocated, and he is making an effort, but isn't doing it quite right. I figure it doesn't matter much. He shoots at my Crone takes it down to 2 wounds, then assaults it. I kill 3 Flash gitz with Overwatch, and 3 more in assault, but the last 2 finish me off. UG.
I've got 1 wound left on 1 flyrant. But our opponent's don't have much either. I psychic scream the flyrant to finish off the last 2 Scat bikes, and then shoot the Autarch to death. The farseer is still out there, as are 2 MANZ, 2 Flash Giz, a Battle Wagon, and some greatchin. We decide to call it. Opponents are up by 3 on Maelstrom, and aren't likely to table me. It was a close game, but the Vortex was a big deal, and my dice going ice cold on turn 4 was frustrating.
This scat bike player is the overall winner. He max pointed his 1st two rounds, and managed to get a few points off of me.
That turn 2 tabling was brutal. Scat bikes sound pretty rough.
I had a savage lesson in STAYING IN THE AIR with my flyrants yesterday. Test game vs. my housemate; we want to go to warhammer world with a few buddies in september, and he's thinking of GK's plus a Knight.
So - I basically didn't know about the Knight until the morning, otherwise I would have taken a hive crone and more zoanthropes Cue much whining from me. Given that, I decided to go for the maelstrom win, and was thus landing flyrants to get ascendancy and domination. I was way up on the maelstrom points, but of course it was a n00b mistake and my flyrants promptly got assaulted and ripped to pieces. The Knight just walked up the table and blew stuff up/assaulted/stomped stuff to death. Quite humiliating really.
MVP - biovores and one of the flyrants casting The Horror on the terminator squad, which spent most of the game pinned. weee
Sinful Hero wrote: If flying Tyrants are out as an HQ choice, what is the next best HQ unit? I'm thinking either Primes to go as cheap as possible, or walking dakkaTyrants, but I would prefer a second opinion.
The reason I ask is that I'm writing a list with the limitation of no flyers for an upcoming game.
Ah, and no LoW or Gargantuans, although FW is cool otherwise.
I forget how much crap has to be explained for games-
Spoiler:
No flyers, Gargantuans, or LoW.
FW is fine.
Maximum two sources.
No double CAD.
I would, as an HQ choice, probably take a Tervigon or a walking Tyrant with Dakka. Actually what I'd recommend is a single walking Tyrant, probably with a single Tyrant guard, and also a Skytyrant swarm. Now you may have to ask your opponent if a Jump MC is good enough for these limits, but a Jump Flyrant attached to Gargoyles is still excellent.
Not a bad idea- I think will take a SkyTyrant formation. Being a Jump MC keeps him under the no flyers rule too.
If I took a walking dakkaTyrant, would Tyrant Guard or a Tyrannocyte be the better option to run with him?
I really don't understand the "No Flyer" rules. That just seems to target certain armies (Tyranids, Daemons) while making armies that don't rely on them even better (Eldar, Tau, Necrons, Space Marines). In that sense, the "rich" gets "richer", but whatever....
I'd go with the drop podding dakkafexes over the dakkarant. They are much cheaper for that purpose. Keep you dakkarant with the main army if you run him.
NightWrench wrote: I am involved in a monthly gaming group that has started at 250 points and has grown now to 1250. It is very good as before in my area a lot of people stopped playing 40k but now there is a group of 6-8 that plays.
We have been using only CAD at this time and now allowing forgeworld models on a limited basis. At 1500 we are moving to formations and and other detachments.
That being said. I need some advice on what to field. I don't care if I win since a few people are just starting and sometimes forget the objectives are key. We play Maelstorm roll strait from the book.
My CAD core is always.
Flyrant 2x devours and eGrubs
Flyrant 2x devours and eGrubs
Malanthrope
2 x ripper bases(3 each) with DS
I was thinking
Gargoyles
Lictor or zoie
Three fexen with all with 2x TLDevs.
I also thought about fielding a tervigon and gaunt tax, gargoyles and lictors to fill out the last 100 points.
Thoughts?
I expect Chaos, Tau mainly a gun line, necrons lead by Imo, vanilla marines in rhinos and truk orcs maybe guard or demons.
If you're going with dakkafexes, consider putting them in tyrannocyte spores. This type of list works better as a denial/reserve-heavy list. I'd go with lictors and drop podding dakkafexes in this case.
Skytyrant Swarm
10 Gargoyles
10 Gargoyles
Hive Tyrant w/ Wings, Old Adversary, Scything Talons, Lash Whip and Bone Sword
omg no flyrants Was tempted to run 2x10 Devourers and turn Malanthrope into Venomthrope but thought the bodies were more important. Kinda just wanted a large ground force to control objectives, two Tervigons should help with that..
It's a decent 1K list as long as you understand that one of your main weaknesses is the lack of mobility and firepower. It's got good resiliency, but this list will have problems against more mobile armies with decent firepower.
750 points doubles tourney
3 lists per player.
Each list most contain 1HQ & 1- 6 troops. Then each list has only 1 elite, fast attack or heavy support with no duplicate choices I.e no heavy supports in two lists.
Before each game after the mission objectives have been deployed but before sides are chosen you chose which list is being played for each player and reveal these lists then set up as normal.
Command and conquer will be in effect which means each list most be played once during the event so pick carefully commanders your resources are limited
Example
List 1 (elite)
Farseer
2x 10 dire avengers
1 x howling banshees
List 2 ( fast attack)
Farseer skyrunner
2 x Eldar jetbikes
1 unit of shinning spears
List 3 (Heavy)
1 aurtarch
2 x guardian defender units
1 fire prism
For each 2 infantry units in a list a single vehicle or monstrous creature can be included
In this tournament only troop infantry squads can claim objective secured
Only vehicles who's armour values that add up to 34 or below may be included (counting the side armour only once)
I.e. a rhino is a value of 32 (front 11 side 11 rear 10) and would be allowed
Bike units are allowed but will not count towards vehicle or monstrous creature allowance and do not gain objective secured if taken as troops
Forge world units are allowed but most follow the same restrictions as above
Super heavy vehicles, gargantuan monstrous and lords of war are not allowed unless they are a independent character or the
Avatar of khaine but it must follow the restrictions
I don't know what type of units you own or which units you like. May I suggest that you post your 3 lists and then we can give you suggestions then?
Personally, I'd include a lot of troops in this format. I might, for example, go something like this:
My Matchups:
Round 1: Me + CSM vs 30 Scat Bikes + Grey Knights
Round 2: Me + Space Wolves (at his 1st ever tourney) vs 54 Scat Bikes.
Round 3: Me + Grey Knights vs 24 Scat bikes + Orks.
I guess scat bikes are officially in. 12 total players, 4 of them spamming scat bikes. 3 of the top 4 were Scat bikes, with the other top player being Necrons.
Some more details on my games:
Missions:
Spoiler:
Adepticon team missions. Maelstrom on 2 of the 3. I ended the day losing a Flyrant and 2 crones sacrificed to score objectives.
Round 1:
Spoiler:
The Scat bike player deployed 1st, and deployed in a corner of the board, so I counter deployed, and was out of his range on turn 1. He more or less shot my teammate off the table except for 2 groups of cultist hiding behind LOS blockers, and some nurgle bikers, but I was unscathed. I advanced and basically shot up the grey knights except for the Land Raider and Dread Knight. I did kill 1 unit of 5 scat bikes. By turn 4 I had tabled the scat bikes, and only lost the Venom, and both mucolids. My teammate was completely tabled minus one squad of cultists, who were scoring fools, because we kept drawing the objective they were on. I Landed all of my FMCs to score as well, and headed back for the Grey Knights. They dumped the Strike Squads out of the land raider and assaulted and killed my warlord, but I psychic screamed the survivors to death. A crone Assaulted and took the last wound off the Land Raider. At this point our opponents just had a 1 wound dread knight remaining, but the game ended on 5. We won by 2 points.
Round 2:
Spoiler:
I knew exactly how this game would go. My partner had 6 las cannon long fangs, 3 TWC with all of the upgrades, and a heavily upgraded TWIC. He also had 2 max squads of blood claws with no transport. The mission was Table quarters at the end of the game. OS units count as 2. Against us were 12 squads of OS scat bikes, and they won the roll off for table sides, and also the roll off for 1st turn. We had no LOS blockers in our deployment, and the opponents had a warlord trait of -1 to reserves. I knew I couldn't win, but figured I could drag the game out if we reserved everything, and took our chances with the 4+ reserve rolls. I figured it would be no fun for my teammate, so instead we just deployed everything.
Turn 1.
I lost a Venomthrope, 3 Flyrants 1 Crone, and took 3 wounds on my other Crone. My partner lost his TWC.
We shot back. My crone killed 3 scat bikes, my partner's long fangs killed a whole squad of 5 who failed their leadership and ran off the table.
Turn 2:
I lost my Crone. My partner lost everything he had. At this point we declared it a complete tabling even though I still had a unit of rippers, and 2 mucolids in reserves.
Wowzer. Turn 2 Tabling. That is humiliating. I stick to my guns that this was probably the best case scenario for my teammate.
Round 3:
Spoiler:
My partner was my Grey Knights opponent from round 1. We lost the roll for 1st turn. I counter deployed the Scat bikes as best I could, but there weren't great options, and no LOS blocker for the Venom big enough to giver cover to the FMCs. My warlord trait was night attacker, so I decided it was night.
Turn 1: The scat bikes that could came after me. They killed the venom, and took 3 wounds off my warlord. The Ork Shokk attack gun rolled 66 and put a Large Blast vortex in our deployment zone. It D slapped a Crone, but my Flyrant made a cover save. Thank the gods for night attacker. The lootas and Flash gitz took 3 wounds off our Dread Knight.
I returned fire. I toasted some lootas, and BBQ'd some flash gitz in a battle wagon. I popped a Trukk that was a MANZ missile. I killed 7 Scat bikes. My teammate shunted his Dread Knight, and BBQed a bunch of lootas and killed a War Walker
Turn 2: The Vortex scattered onto my teammates Land Raider and exploded it. Cue rules debate about the AP of a Vortex. It was AP from the SAG, so yes. LR dies. SAG smashes most of the survivors that came out of the LR. Lots of shots at my flyrants, lots of misses, and I made a couple of clutch saves on my 1 wound warlord. The Manz assaulted and kill my teammate's Razorback.
I shot back. Vector struck the 1 wound SAG, but rolled a one. Finished off the lootas Drooled on the flash gitz in the battle wagon. Killed about 10 Scat bikes. My teammate's marines combined to shoot and assault 4 scat bikes. His Dread Knight took one wound off a War walker, but when It tried to assault it died to overwatch.
Turn 3: My teammates marines take a lot of fire. He ends up losing all but 3.
I shot back. Killed another 7 scat bikes and 2 Manz. Vector strukk the BW but failed to glance it. Toasted some more Flash Gitz, and finished off the SAG warlord. I'm feeling pretty good about tabling my opponents, though my teammate is almost gone. However, something goes terribly wrong. My rippers deep strike onto an objective, and it turns out to be skyfire.
Turn 4: The last squad of 4 Scat bikes with the attached IC's moves onto the Skyfire objective, and put 6 saves on a full wound flyrant. I failed 4 of 6, and it dies. The the flash gitz kill my Warlord.
I shoot back, landing both my remaining FMC's to score objectives. This is the turn my mocolid finally finishes the 2nd warwalker. I shoot up the Scat bikes, but thanks to lucky / clever placement, I kill 2 Scat bikes, and he is able to LOS between the Autarch and Farseer to put a wound on both. My Crone Takes a hull point of the BW, and Drools on the Flash Gitz again.
Turn 5: The scat bike squad breaks up. The Autarch and Farseer go and kill the last 3 marines. The 2 Scatbikes manage to put 3! wounds of my last flyrant. The flash gitz get out of the wagon. He informs me that I've done 12 wounds to them, so that is 2 dead Flash gitz and a wound on all of the rest. We've been rehashing this argument the whole game. Wounds are randomly allocated, and he is making an effort, but isn't doing it quite right. I figure it doesn't matter much. He shoots at my Crone takes it down to 2 wounds, then assaults it. I kill 3 Flash gitz with Overwatch, and 3 more in assault, but the last 2 finish me off. UG.
I've got 1 wound left on 1 flyrant. But our opponent's don't have much either. I psychic scream the flyrant to finish off the last 2 Scat bikes, and then shoot the Autarch to death. The farseer is still out there, as are 2 MANZ, 2 Flash Giz, a Battle Wagon, and some greatchin. We decide to call it. Opponents are up by 3 on Maelstrom, and aren't likely to table me. It was a close game, but the Vortex was a big deal, and my dice going ice cold on turn 4 was frustrating.
This scat bike player is the overall winner. He max pointed his 1st two rounds, and managed to get a few points off of me.
How many points is this? Your list comes out to be only 1150-pts.
Other than that....ouch!
It really isn't fair in such a game when terrain isn't adequate. Against the likes of Tau or Eldar, especially if they go first, you're asking to be crippled.
@jy2 The "No Flyers" is basically a callback to 5th that some people have fond memories of- before Grey Knights came out anyway. Some people like to use new units and new rules while not having to worry about a new unit type and all the special rules involved with it.
It could be easier to assume they're all fast skimmers and jump monstrous creatures, but them's the breaks.
Sinful Hero wrote: @jy2 The "No Flyers" is basically a callback to 5th that some people have fond memories of- before Grey Knights came out anyway. Some people like to use new units and new rules while not having to worry about a new unit type and all the special rules involved with it.
It could be easier to assume they're all fast skimmers and jump monstrous creatures, but them's the breaks.
Still, game balance is affected when you run these types of "throw-back" scenarios. Certain armies remain competitive because they have such units (i.e. flyers). Take that away and they will have a mountain to climb when going up against the stronger, newer armies that don't rely on flyers to dominate.
zerosignal wrote: I had a savage lesson in STAYING IN THE AIR with my flyrants yesterday. Test game vs. my housemate; we want to go to warhammer world with a few buddies in september, and he's thinking of GK's plus a Knight.
So - I basically didn't know about the Knight until the morning, otherwise I would have taken a hive crone and more zoanthropes Cue much whining from me. Given that, I decided to go for the maelstrom win, and was thus landing flyrants to get ascendancy and domination. I was way up on the maelstrom points, but of course it was a n00b mistake and my flyrants promptly got assaulted and ripped to pieces. The Knight just walked up the table and blew stuff up/assaulted/stomped stuff to death. Quite humiliating really.
MVP - biovores and one of the flyrants casting The Horror on the terminator squad, which spent most of the game pinned. weee
Sometimes, the best way to learn is to take a pounding.
tag8833 wrote: I went to a Team RTT today. Interesting Experience.
How many points is this? Your list comes out to be only 1150-pts.
Other than that....ouch!
It really isn't fair in such a game when terrain isn't adequate. Against the likes of Tau or Eldar, especially if they go first, you're asking to be crippled.
Gak! I cheated. I only had one crone in the list, but I ran 2 because I had wargamescon on my mind. It was 1K per player. Except as I said, I screwed up, and put an extra crone on the table.
ETA. The ironic part of that is that the TO was tied up, and got started late, so it was my job to check people in and verify their lists. Physician heal thyself.
Lol. No worries. There are just so much new stuff coming out that sometimes, people will forget. I actually made a similar mistake at my last tournament, only I did the opposite - I forgot to bring one of my units instead.
So the meta is shifting nicely in Tyranids favor with the introduction of Sms, who hard counter necrons about as hard as they counter bugs. Also sms are another nail in the coffin for tau. Now obviously this doesn't mean you will never see either army, but I think sms are going to cause a notable shift. Bugs (especially the 5 flyrant variant) do a number on msu marines.
I also think after watching others, and helping my friends test, that the 5 flyrant build is the only viable build that has a chance to do well in NOVA format.
Oh and hormoguants may be a viable replacement over termguants for obsec that can actually kill things.
I don't see how SMs counter Necrons. Demon summoning through the librarian formation? S10 Apoc blast from taking 3 tanks? I think the type of necron lists that have been winning events near me will continue to smash space marines, and mainly fear demons (demonkin) and skitari drop pods. Centstar can sometimes beat necrons.
The new Skyhammer Annihilation formation could be problematic if going second with Nids, consider a T1 DS assault is possible and keep the Flyrants on the ground.
Of course, you can start them in reserve, but that's a huge chunk of your army off the board.
N.I.B. wrote: This question belongs in YMDC but I'm curious to how you play Comms Relay -
Any player with an unengaged model within 2" of a comms relay can re-roll Reserves rolls.
A fortification in my army list (like an Aegis Defense Line) is a model in my army. So we don't have to have actual units manning a Comms to use it?
A defense line is labeled as battlefield terrain, so i don't think that counts as a model. However, a building purchased as part of a fortification does - the bastion or bunker for example would be sufficient to get the benefit from the comms relay.
Think of it in this fashion - can i target/shoot/assault a defense line? No, but a bastion and bunker etc can most definitely be targeted/shot/assaulted - those count as models while the defense line does not. otherwise taking an aegis would mean that you could never be tabled.
tag8833 wrote: I don't see how SMs counter Necrons. Demon summoning through the librarian formation? S10 Apoc blast from taking 3 tanks? I think the type of necron lists that have been winning events near me will continue to smash space marines, and mainly fear demons (demonkin) and skitari drop pods. Centstar can sometimes beat necrons.
In nova format if you run double demi company, you end up with about 25-30 obsec marines, and durcurion necrons just cant kill that many obsec models before you max out the Primary and 2ndarys.
I have played 4 games with it and it has been very very promising, actually my only loss in so far has been to Turbo's 5 flyrant list, but with more testing and properly picking my 2ndaries I think I can fix that matchup. But as I said before bugs match up very well against sms
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh and I played grav spam lastnight, lost 75 marines and 10 transports and still won the mission on turns 5, 6 and 7 lol
N.I.B. wrote: This question belongs in YMDC but I'm curious to how you play Comms Relay -
Any player with an unengaged model within 2" of a comms relay can re-roll Reserves rolls.
A fortification in my army list (like an Aegis Defense Line) is a model in my army. So we don't have to have actual units manning a Comms to use it?
A defense line is labeled as battlefield terrain, so i don't think that counts as a model. However, a building purchased as part of a fortification does - the bastion or bunker for example would be sufficient to get the benefit from the comms relay.
Think of it in this fashion - can i target/shoot/assault a defense line? No, but a bastion and bunker etc can most definitely be targeted/shot/assaulted - those count as models while the defense line does not. otherwise taking an aegis would mean that you could never be tabled.
While the RAW wording doesn't agree that an ADL can't man a Comms, I agree that it's likely RAI.
They already do with the Manta but really you'd have to play Apocalypse to see that.
I can't see it though...maybe Railguns become D, Broadsides have the -1 much like Wraithguard. Would make Railguns viable over HYMP.
I'm just hoping that admist all the buffs other armies get, my armies (DE, Nids, Orks) get a similar treatment but really I'm clutching at straws, I don't think any of the design team uses those armies.
They already do with the Manta but really you'd have to play Apocalypse to see that.
I can't see it though...maybe Railguns become D, Broadsides have the -1 much like Wraithguard. Would make Railguns viable over HYMP.
I'm just hoping that admist all the buffs other armies get, my armies (DE, Nids, Orks) get a similar treatment but really I'm clutching at straws, I don't think any of the design team uses those armies.
Haha sadly that may be true. TBH I do hope that Railsides become somewhat viable again. They're just awful right now, and I love how those guns look.
The thing that has me optimistic (for Nids, at least) is that GW definitely has given them formation love in lieu of allies, and I'm excited to see what happens with the new Codex, whenever it may be. It very likely won't invalidate Leviathan, so our list building versatility will only grow.
Most exciting of all, what is really left for GW to update before Nids have a new codex?
1) Sisters, if that ever happens
2) Black Templars, if that ever happens
3) Probably another Daemonkin book
4) Dark Angels, but that's already here
5) Rumors seem to point to Tau soonish
6) CSM probably
7) maybe Daemons, but they don't need an update and are getting all the Daemonkin
Seems like a really long list, but I would bet money that we beat out at least one of the BT/Sisters (maybe both), and I don't think Daemons are likely before us. So really, that's like 3 or 4 codecies tops. At GW's current clip, by this time next year I fully expect to have a new book (or at least for it to be coming out soon)
My (completely unofficial) guess is that we have a new book in January. Why? Because our 5th editions and 6th edition codexes were January releases, as were Shield of Baal. I don't recall when the 4th edition codex was released, but GW does seem to like Nids in January... Personally I am optimistic that we will have very similar rules to before, simply with new and better formations consolidated into our main codex.
Frozocrone wrote: For 1500 points what would you all consider the best list? No restrictions, aside from being battle-forged.
I kinda want to do Hive Fleet and Skyblight but that's got literally no ground force.
Do you know what kind of missions you'll be playing? If they're Eternal War, I would take 4 Flyrants. If they're Maelstrom or Progressive I would take 3. Either way, two CADs is best with no limits. If it's Eternal War I would fill out the list with Rippers, Gants and Malanthropes, and also Tyrannocytes, while for Maelstrom I'd take Rippers, Lictora, Mawlocs and Mucolids.
Frozocrone wrote: For 1500 points what would you all consider the best list? No restrictions, aside from being battle-forged.
I kinda want to do Hive Fleet and Skyblight but that's got literally no ground force.
Do you know what kind of missions you'll be playing? If they're Eternal War, I would take 4 Flyrants. If they're Maelstrom or Progressive I would take 3. Either way, two CADs is best with no limits. If it's Eternal War I would fill out the list with Rippers, Gants and Malanthropes, and also Tyrannocytes, while for Maelstrom I'd take Rippers, Lictora, Mawlocs and Mucolids.
They'll be EW, Relic and four objectives per game.
Dozer Blades wrote:I heard it from a reliable about skyfire D. It's not really a big deal if you think about it.
Dozer Blades wrote: Any big point unit that doesn't fly or swoop can be one shotted by the Wraithknight. That's why I said it's not a big deal - welcome to the club.
Where are you getting this rumor from? I personally don't think Skyfire D weapons will be in a normal codex for a long time. And flyers exist as a counter to D weapons that balances the game (somewhat). I don't expect that to be discarded.
It's the UKTC (UK Team Championships) in a fortnights time and I'm just finalising my list for submission tomorrow (Sunday 21st) I'm between these two versions of it at the moment, what do you guys think? Any other suggestions?
Missions are Eternal War, and it's 1850 points
List A
Spoiler:
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Devourers, Electro Grubs
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Devourers, Electro Grubs
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Devourers, Electro Grubs
Venomthrope
3 x Rippers Deep Strike
3 x Rippers Deep Strike
3 x Rippers Deep Strike
3 x Rippers Deep Strike
3 x Rippers Deep Strike
Skyblight
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Devourers, Electro Grubs
Harpy
Harpy
Hive crone
10 x Gargoyles
10 x Gargoyles
10 x Gargoyles
This list leaves me 15 points to spare.
List B
Spoiler:
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Devourers, Electro Grubs
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Devourers, Electro Grubs
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Devourers, Electro Grubs
Venomthrope
Zoanthrope
Zoanthrope
3 x Rippers Deep Strike
3 x Rippers Deep Strike
3 x Rippers Deep Strike
Skyblight
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Devourers, Electro Grubs
Harpy
Harpy
Hive crone
10 x Gargoyles
10 x Gargoyles
10 x Gargoyles
Alaxandir wrote: How do you get 4 hive tyrants, i get the one in the formation but the third in the regular confuses me
He is most likely using the Tyranid Hive Fleet detachment from shield of ball: Leviathan.
As to the list themselves, (admitting that I don't know the missions) I would cut down on the number of Rippers due to their lack of ObSec. So o the two I prefer the list with Zoeys. But, I think an ever better list could come from dropping a Zoey and Venom for a Malanthrope if FW is allowed.
EDIT: Also is the UKTC a similar format to the ETC? I'm a big fan of the team tournament idea.
Alaxandir wrote: How do you get 4 hive tyrants, i get the one in the formation but the third in the regular confuses me
He is most likely using the Tyranid Hive Fleet detachment from shield of ball: Leviathan.
As to the list themselves, (admitting that I don't know the missions) I would cut down on the number of Rippers due to their lack of ObSec. So o the two I prefer the list with Zoeys. But, I think an ever better list could come from dropping a Zoey and Venom for a Malanthrope if FW is allowed.
EDIT: Also is the UKTC a similar format to the ETC? I'm a big fan of the team tournament idea.
Missions are Eternal War, as it says in the post
I think I prefer the Zoey one as well, the only reason I've put him in is because I'm the only one our team with any sort of Psychic presence, bar a single Farseer Eldar list.
Eldercaveman wrote: It's the UKTC (UK Team Championships) in a fortnights time and I'm just finalising my list for submission tomorrow (Sunday 21st) I'm between these two versions of it at the moment, what do you guys think? Any other suggestions?
Missions are Eternal War, and it's 1850 points
List A
Spoiler:
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Devourers, Electro Grubs
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Devourers, Electro Grubs
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Devourers, Electro Grubs
Venomthrope
3 x Rippers Deep Strike
3 x Rippers Deep Strike
3 x Rippers Deep Strike
3 x Rippers Deep Strike
3 x Rippers Deep Strike
Skyblight
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Devourers, Electro Grubs
Harpy
Harpy
Hive crone
10 x Gargoyles
10 x Gargoyles
10 x Gargoyles
This list leaves me 15 points to spare.
List B
Spoiler:
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Devourers, Electro Grubs
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Devourers, Electro Grubs
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Devourers, Electro Grubs
Venomthrope
Zoanthrope
Zoanthrope
3 x Rippers Deep Strike
3 x Rippers Deep Strike
3 x Rippers Deep Strike
Skyblight
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Devourers, Electro Grubs
Harpy
Harpy
Hive crone
10 x Gargoyles
10 x Gargoyles
10 x Gargoyles
I've got 2 questions for you. Do you have more gargoyles? Do you own any lictors?
I really don't like non-ObSec rippers. I feel that they can potentially hurt your army more than help it. One of the main functions of the rippers is to tarpit lesser units, especially while on an objective to protect it from getting shot off the objective. However, being non-ObSec, now it can't even really do that. Imagine assaulting or being assaulted by a 5-man tactical squad. Now the marine squad is protected from being shot at by your army and because they are ObSec, they will be claiming the objective, not the rippers. So in a Leviathan formation, I suggest you run no more than the minimum 3 units. Running more doesn't really help all that much IMO.
Instead, I think there are 2 better options:
1. Run more gargoyles. It doesn't hurt to shore up your ObSec units, especially ones that you can recycle.
2. Run lictors. Put objectives in ruins and now you've got lictors with 2+ go-to-ground cover. Also, they can be used to threaten smaller, MSU scoring units that try to take the objective over them. They are also great if you choose to null-deploy your army. Overall, I prefer lictors over zoans due to the flexibility they provide to the army.
Eldercaveman wrote: It's the UKTC (UK Team Championships) in a fortnights time and I'm just finalising my list for submission tomorrow (Sunday 21st) I'm between these two versions of it at the moment, what do you guys think? Any other suggestions?
Missions are Eternal War, and it's 1850 points
List A
Spoiler:
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Devourers, Electro Grubs
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Devourers, Electro Grubs
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Devourers, Electro Grubs
Venomthrope
3 x Rippers Deep Strike
3 x Rippers Deep Strike
3 x Rippers Deep Strike
3 x Rippers Deep Strike
3 x Rippers Deep Strike
Skyblight
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Devourers, Electro Grubs
Harpy
Harpy
Hive crone
10 x Gargoyles
10 x Gargoyles
10 x Gargoyles
This list leaves me 15 points to spare.
List B
Spoiler:
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Devourers, Electro Grubs
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Devourers, Electro Grubs
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Devourers, Electro Grubs
Venomthrope
Zoanthrope
Zoanthrope
3 x Rippers Deep Strike
3 x Rippers Deep Strike
3 x Rippers Deep Strike
Skyblight
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Devourers, Electro Grubs
Harpy
Harpy
Hive crone
10 x Gargoyles
10 x Gargoyles
10 x Gargoyles
I've got 2 questions for you. Do you have more gargoyles? Do you own any lictors?
I really don't like non-ObSec rippers. I feel that they can potentially hurt your army more than help it. One of the main functions of the rippers is to tarpit lesser units, especially while on an objective to protect it from getting shot off the objective. However, being non-ObSec, now it can't even really do that. Imagine assaulting or being assaulted by a 5-man tactical squad. Now the marine squad is protected from being shot at by your army and because they are ObSec, they will be claiming the objective, not the rippers. So in a Leviathan formation, I suggest you run no more than the minimum 3 units. Running more doesn't really help all that much IMO.
Instead, I think there are 2 better options:
1. Run more gargoyles. It doesn't hurt to shore up your ObSec units, especially ones that you can recycle.
2. Run lictors. Put objectives in ruins and now you've got lictors with 2+ go-to-ground cover. Also, they can be used to threaten smaller, MSU scoring units that try to take the objective over them. They are also great if you choose to null-deploy your army. Overall, I prefer lictors over zoans due to the flexibility they provide to the army.
So would you suggest a direct trade off of the two Zoans for two Lictors?
My local meta is IG and SM, with a lot of vehicles and frankly I get murdered.
What can I buy to cost effectively increase my chances of winning these games.
We usually play 1850 pts, which I cant really reach without expensive upgrades on my stuff.
My local meta is IG and SM, with a lot of vehicles and frankly I get murdered.
What can I buy to cost effectively increase my chances of winning these games.
We usually play 1850 pts, which I cant really reach without expensive upgrades on my stuff.
The flyrant is a give-me being best unit in the dex. Maximizing what you have? More gargoyles, more Gants (both types), pair of pods for the Fex and the Warriors, another Zoanthrope to travel up field with the hormie gants (makes a good sitter as it can run every turn and not lose shooting). What does your normal list look like?
Best Nids at Texas Wargamescon went to a Tyranid list based on Endless Swarm. One of my buddies who plays Tau lost to him. The basic list looked like this:
Blew me away that he beat Tau in the kill points mission. (Tau won kill points like 16-4, but Tyranids won Maelstrom and tertiary).
The Changes to the ITC missions definitely create a niche for lists like this. Still an extreme RPS list, but congrats to him. I believe he finished 4-1. I didn't see a single other Tyranid player in the GT, but I may have missed one or two. I played nids in the Team event, and Orks in the Narrative.
Iechine wrote: Questions worth asking: How on earth did he not get penalized for slow play (intentional or not) with that many models every single game?
Good for him pulling best bugs but if he did it by stopping games turn 3 to pull away on objectives then I'd be sad.
I've run tourney lists with model counts that high before. It can definitely be done. Do your thinking during your opponent's turn. Ask your opponent to help you pile in. Run and move at the same time.
Iechine wrote: Questions worth asking: How on earth did he not get penalized for slow play (intentional or not) with that many models every single game?
Good for him pulling best bugs but if he did it by stopping games turn 3 to pull away on objectives then I'd be sad.
I've run tourney lists with model counts that high before. It can definitely be done. Do your thinking during your opponent's turn. Ask your opponent to help you pile in. Run and move at the same time.
And ask if you can Conga/Leapfrog units. I run nids like that at events
The flyrant is a give-me being best unit in the dex. Maximizing what you have? More gargoyles, more Gants (both types), pair of pods for the Fex and the Warriors, another Zoanthrope to travel up field with the hormie gants (makes a good sitter as it can run every turn and not lose shooting). What does your normal list look like?
My usual list looks like this
Tervigon
--Miasma Cannon, ES Grub
Carnifex
--H Venom Cannon
Gargoyle (10)
Zoanthrope
Venomthrope
Venomthrope
Warrior (3)
--Deathspitter, flesh hooks, venomcannon, rending claws(1)
Termagaunt (30)
--Devourer (6)
Hormagaunt (15)
--AG Hormagaunt (15)
--TS Rippers (6)
--DS, Spinefists
Biovore(1) (Proxied)
tag8833 wrote: Best Nids at Texas Wargamescon went to a Tyranid list based on Endless Swarm. One of my buddies who plays Tau lost to him. The basic list looked like this:
Blew me away that he beat Tau in the kill points mission. (Tau won kill points like 16-4, but Tyranids won Maelstrom and tertiary).
The Changes to the ITC missions definitely create a niche for lists like this. Still an extreme RPS list, but congrats to him. I believe he finished 4-1. I didn't see a single other Tyranid player in the GT, but I may have missed one or two. I played nids in the Team event, and Orks in the Narrative.
It reminds me of the old scythe gaunt lists from 3ed era. If I had the back and stamina for it I'd love to play such a list at events (still might do it anyway and just get a massage after day 1 lol). Kudos for him taking it and winning at an event like this -- with no flyrants. Bigger feat then lictorshame to me.
Also with some sluething it seems he was the best general at raildhead rumble earlier in the year (with Dark Eldar) so doubt its a list anyone can just pick up and win with. And agree new ITC missions help this out a lot -- that Tau player would have won with the old KP missions pretty handily.
In general are the gaunts produced by mommy objsec if mom is also objsec? I know most events have ruled the summoned demons are not objsec but part of the detachment for warlord traits etc.
NightWrench wrote: In general are the gaunts produced by mommy objsec if mom is also objsec? I know most events have ruled the summoned demons are not objsec but part of the detachment for warlord traits etc.
ITC and NoVa rules they do not count as obsec via CAD. That is RaW in my opinion, even if it makes the whole 'counts as troops' thing meaningless. Sucks but the type of thing that happens in a ruleset change. Also to be clear they are still part of the army (so would benefit from warlord traits where applicable) but are not part of the detachment (which is not normally possible at army creation but nothing stops this once the game starts).
tag8833 wrote: Best Nids at Texas Wargamescon went to a Tyranid list based on Endless Swarm. One of my buddies who plays Tau lost to him. The basic list looked like this:
Blew me away that he beat Tau in the kill points mission. (Tau won kill points like 16-4, but Tyranids won Maelstrom and tertiary).
The Changes to the ITC missions definitely create a niche for lists like this. Still an extreme RPS list, but congrats to him. I believe he finished 4-1. I didn't see a single other Tyranid player in the GT, but I may have missed one or two. I played nids in the Team event, and Orks in the Narrative.
I've always liked the Endless Swarm and depending on the missions, they can do very well. It is surprising to see him do so well with so little mobility however, but this type of list is potentially very good in Maelstrom objectives against all but the most extreme ObSec armies.
Iechine wrote: Questions worth asking: How on earth did he not get penalized for slow play (intentional or not) with that many models every single game?
Good for him pulling best bugs but if he did it by stopping games turn 3 to pull away on objectives then I'd be sad.
There are a number of ways to increase your speed. For me, when I run a "hordish" army, I start doing things in my opponent's turn. Like when he is deploying, I start deploying as well. I tell him I am not deployed yet, just "putting my models on the table", but after he deploys, rarely do I change my deployment on my turn. Also, sometimes near the end of my opponents turn, I start my Movement phase as long as it won't affect anything on his turn and you don't have to take IB tests (of course, always get permission from your opponent before doing so).
Then when we are rolling dice, always offer to help or ask your opponent for help with pulling out hits (or misses) for events that use a lot of dice.
There are a lot of these tips to make gameplay go faster, especially for large model-count armies.
The flyrant is a give-me being best unit in the dex. Maximizing what you have? More gargoyles, more Gants (both types), pair of pods for the Fex and the Warriors, another Zoanthrope to travel up field with the hormie gants (makes a good sitter as it can run every turn and not lose shooting). What does your normal list look like?
My usual list looks like this
Tervigon
--Miasma Cannon, ES Grub
Carnifex
--H Venom Cannon
Gargoyle (10)
Zoanthrope
Venomthrope
Venomthrope
Warrior (3)
--Deathspitter, flesh hooks, venomcannon, rending claws(1)
Termagaunt (30)
--Devourer (6)
Hormagaunt (15)
--AG Hormagaunt (15)
--TS Rippers (6)
--DS, Spinefists
Biovore(1) (Proxied)
1250 pt list
Like the other people say, get or proxy a dakka flyrant in your games (flyrant w/2 devourers). Ideally, you'd want to run 2 at 1250-1500-pts. They are just that good.
With regards to your list, split up the rippers into 2x3 deepstriking units. Use them to grab objectives and to tarpit weaker enemy units.
tag8833 wrote: Best Nids at Texas Wargamescon went to a Tyranid list based on Endless Swarm. One of my buddies who plays Tau lost to him. The basic list looked like this:
Blew me away that he beat Tau in the kill points mission. (Tau won kill points like 16-4, but Tyranids won Maelstrom and tertiary).
The Changes to the ITC missions definitely create a niche for lists like this. Still an extreme RPS list, but congrats to him. I believe he finished 4-1. I didn't see a single other Tyranid player in the GT, but I may have missed one or two. I played nids in the Team event, and Orks in the Narrative.
I'm impressed this guy did so well! I've maintained for a long time that I think Endless Swarm would work in a Maelstrom-heavy environment, but unfortunately that format isn't particularly big over here so I haven't had the opportunity to try it... That said, I'm also fairly stunned that it runs a Swarmie and Dima over say, 2x Flyrants! I've also tended to run with more termagaunts than Hormas, but perhaps this is a better idea to put the pressure on.
Hormagaunts are excellent. People favor rippers because they are cheaper and don't require babysitting in a highly mobile Flyrant list. Glad to see Swarmy on the table winning some games. I like to load my list up with Hormagaunts whenever I put Swarmlord in my list for fun.
tag8833 wrote: Best Nids at Texas Wargamescon went to a Tyranid list based on Endless Swarm. One of my buddies who plays Tau lost to him. The basic list looked like this:
Blew me away that he beat Tau in the kill points mission. (Tau won kill points like 16-4, but Tyranids won Maelstrom and tertiary).
The Changes to the ITC missions definitely create a niche for lists like this. Still an extreme RPS list, but congrats to him. I believe he finished 4-1. I didn't see a single other Tyranid player in the GT, but I may have missed one or two. I played nids in the Team event, and Orks in the Narrative.
I've always liked the Endless Swarm and depending on the missions, they can do very well. It is surprising to see him do so well with so little mobility however, but this type of list is potentially very good in Maelstrom objectives against all but the most extreme ObSec armies.
I would classify the list as extremely mobile. The Trygon comes in, in your opponent's deployment zone, and you can choose to bring respawned units out of that, or walk them on. Hormies are pretty darn mobile with a 6" move, a D6 + 3" run, and fleet.
The bigger problem is that it requires the opponent to play along somewhat and eliminate units completely, and a list with ignores cover or sufficient volume of fire can take out Swarmy and the malanthropes. Without those the list becomes a pushover. The Table I watched him playing on had multiple LOS blocking pieces of terrain that allowed him to hide them out of LOS. Also it helped somewhat that his Tervigon was a CFex conversion, and his Malanthropes were Tyrant conversions, because they were significantly smaller than you normally see.
My buddy playing Tau made some serious mistakes against this list (targetting the Trygon rather than the Dimacharon, Eliminating units completely, not playing aggressively enough in the Maelstrom). I think if you know how it works, it might not be nearly as effective as it was in this situation.
NightWrench wrote: Other than tau what armies can still ignore cover reliably?
Skitari can reduce cover saves by 1. Eldar can remove stealth and shrouded with a psychic power. The new marine vindicator squad can ignore cover. The Sicarin ignores jink saves. One of the new knights has a hellstorm flamer.
Just had another test game. It was me running the Space Marines Battle Company against iNcontrol running Pentyrant Tyranids.
I ran:
2x Demi-Companies:
Ko'sorro Khan
Chaplain
6x5 Tactica squads - 4x w/meltas, 2x w/plasmas, all w/meltabombs, 5 razorbacks, 1 drop pod
2x5 Assault squads - 2x flamers each in 2 drop pods
2x5 Devastator squads - 2x missile launchers each in 2 razorbacks (1 w/TL-lascannons)
1x Ironclad dreadnought in drop pod
Pregame Analysis: IMO, Pentyrant is the hard-counter to Battle Company Space Marines. Pentyrant lists work really well against MSU so they should do well against my marines. However, with almost my entire army being ObSec, I should be able to take the Maelstrom Secondary. With the superiority of Tyranid firepower and the lack of AA for Marines, Tyranids should be able to take the Primary. Basically, the game is going to boil down to this - how well can I survive Tyranid shooting? If I can survive, I should be able to win this game even without killing a whole lot of bugs. It not, then Tyranids have the potential to table my army. I would give bugs the edge in this game because they are better able to achieve the Tertiaries (and in particular, First Blood) than my Marines.
NightWrench wrote: Other than tau what armies can still ignore cover reliably?
Skitari can reduce cover saves by 1. Eldar can remove stealth and shrouded with a psychic power. The new marine vindicator squad can ignore cover. The Sicarin ignores jink saves. One of the new knights has a hellstorm flamer.
Also, wave serpents, though not as common anymore, can still ignore cover with their initial volley. And then you've got deathstar armies (centstar, Librarian Conclave) going for Perfect Timing. Finally, IG/AM can give orders to ignore cover and I believe the wyvern can ignore cover as well.
Oh, and there's the dreaded DE/Eldar combo with D-scythe wraithknights coming in from deepstrike without scatter via their Webway portal DE ally. That's a nasty combo that you will see in tournament play.
tag8833 wrote: Best Nids at Texas Wargamescon went to a Tyranid list based on Endless Swarm. One of my buddies who plays Tau lost to him. The basic list looked like this:
Blew me away that he beat Tau in the kill points mission. (Tau won kill points like 16-4, but Tyranids won Maelstrom and tertiary).
The Changes to the ITC missions definitely create a niche for lists like this. Still an extreme RPS list, but congrats to him. I believe he finished 4-1. I didn't see a single other Tyranid player in the GT, but I may have missed one or two. I played nids in the Team event, and Orks in the Narrative.
I've always liked the Endless Swarm and depending on the missions, they can do very well. It is surprising to see him do so well with so little mobility however, but this type of list is potentially very good in Maelstrom objectives against all but the most extreme ObSec armies.
I would classify the list as extremely mobile. The Trygon comes in, in your opponent's deployment zone, and you can choose to bring respawned units out of that, or walk them on. Hormies are pretty darn mobile with a 6" move, a D6 + 3" run, and fleet.
The bigger problem is that it requires the opponent to play along somewhat and eliminate units completely, and a list with ignores cover or sufficient volume of fire can take out Swarmy and the malanthropes. Without those the list becomes a pushover. The Table I watched him playing on had multiple LOS blocking pieces of terrain that allowed him to hide them out of LOS. Also it helped somewhat that his Tervigon was a CFex conversion, and his Malanthropes were Tyrant conversions, because they were significantly smaller than you normally see.
My buddy playing Tau made some serious mistakes against this list (targetting the Trygon rather than the Dimacharon, Eliminating units completely, not playing aggressively enough in the Maelstrom). I think if you know how it works, it might not be nearly as effective as it was in this situation.
Trygon coming in isn't really great mobility. At the earliest he comes in on T2 and you cannot use the hole until T3 or later. Sure, hormagants are fast....but they can be stopped in their tracks by enemy assault units. Their "mobility" can be "controlled" by certain armies.
When I talk about mobility, I mean that you can reach the far-away objective in just 1 turn. Lictors can do it. Mawlocs can do it. Deepstriking units can do it. Flyers/jump infantry can potentially do it as they can move up to 18" (non-flying) and more importantly, they can move over screening units. Ground-based units, no matter how fast they are (unless they are Slaaneshi-fast) just don't have that type of mobility. Sure, they have good ground control, but that isn't the same thing as having good mobility.
jy2 wrote: Just had another test game. It was me running the Space Marines Battle Company against iNcontrol running Pentyrant Tyranids.
I ran:
2x Demi-Companies:
Ko'sorro Khan
Chaplain
6x5 Tactica squads - 4x w/meltas, 2x w/plasmas, all w/meltabombs, 5 razorbacks, 1 drop pod
2x5 Assault squads - 2x flamers each in 2 drop pods
2x5 Devastator squads - 2x missile launchers each in 2 razorbacks (1 w/TL-lascannons)
1x Ironclad dreadnought in drop pod
Pregame Analysis: IMO, Pentyrant is the hard-counter to Battle Company Space Marines. Pentyrant lists work really well against MSU so they should do well against my marines. However, with almost my entire army being ObSec, I should be able to take the Maelstrom Secondary. With the superiority of Tyranid firepower and the lack of AA for Marines, Tyranids should be able to take the Primary. Basically, the game is going to boil down to this - how well can I survive Tyranid shooting? If I can survive, I should be able to win this game even without killing a whole lot of bugs. It not, then Tyranids have the potential to table my army. I would give bugs the edge in this game because they are better able to achieve the Tertiaries (and in particular, First Blood) than my Marines.
So I have been playing quite a few games with white scars gladius strike force (9 so far with another 5 scheduled between tomorrow and sunday) and have gone 7 and 2 vs good opponents, those loses coming to nicks daemons (of course lol) and turbo 997s nids. It was a pretty brutal game where he took it 18 to 16 in nova format, that said it was my 2nd game with the army and I think the changes I made can make the matchup winnable.
Currently my scars list is the following
Khan
chaplin with auspex
command squad with 5 melta guns in pod
command squad with 5 melta guns in pod
10 tac marines in rhino
10 tac marines in rhino
10 tac marines in rhino
10 tac marines in rhino
10 tac marines in rhino
10 tac marines in rhino
5 assault marines with 2 flamers in pod
5 assault marines with 2 flamers in pod
5 devs in razorback
5 devs in razorback
5 scouts
5 scouts
5 scouts
inquisitor with 3 servo skulls and combi melta
1850
Khan goes with a cmd squad or assault marines, and the chappy and inq go with a cmd squad. Every squad combat squads every single game
So in nova format, its pretty much impossible to keep me from maxing turn by turn primary. as for 2ndaries, I have been able to get linebraker in all but 1 of my games, I always take marked for death as well (vs the penta flyrant list its usually the malenthrope) but I pretty much give up all 3 2ndaries by turn 2 lol. So the game comes down to if I can keep the bug player from getting more then 6 on his primary and he can keep me from getting the last 2 points on my 2ndary. I feel like the matchup is 60/40 in the nid players favor but this can change depending on how many psy screams he gets.
jy2 wrote: Just had another test game. It was me running the Space Marines Battle Company against iNcontrol running Pentyrant Tyranids.
I ran:
2x Demi-Companies:
Ko'sorro Khan
Chaplain
6x5 Tactica squads - 4x w/meltas, 2x w/plasmas, all w/meltabombs, 5 razorbacks, 1 drop pod
2x5 Assault squads - 2x flamers each in 2 drop pods
2x5 Devastator squads - 2x missile launchers each in 2 razorbacks (1 w/TL-lascannons)
1x Ironclad dreadnought in drop pod
Pregame Analysis: IMO, Pentyrant is the hard-counter to Battle Company Space Marines. Pentyrant lists work really well against MSU so they should do well against my marines. However, with almost my entire army being ObSec, I should be able to take the Maelstrom Secondary. With the superiority of Tyranid firepower and the lack of AA for Marines, Tyranids should be able to take the Primary. Basically, the game is going to boil down to this - how well can I survive Tyranid shooting? If I can survive, I should be able to win this game even without killing a whole lot of bugs. It not, then Tyranids have the potential to table my army. I would give bugs the edge in this game because they are better able to achieve the Tertiaries (and in particular, First Blood) than my Marines.
So I have been playing quite a few games with white scars gladius strike force (9 so far with another 5 scheduled between tomorrow and sunday) and have gone 7 and 2 vs good opponents, those loses coming to nicks daemons (of course lol) and turbo 997s nids. It was a pretty brutal game where he took it 18 to 16 in nova format, that said it was my 2nd game with the army and I think the changes I made can make the matchup winnable.
Currently my scars list is the following
Khan
chaplin with auspex
command squad with 5 melta guns in pod
command squad with 5 melta guns in pod
10 tac marines in rhino
10 tac marines in rhino
10 tac marines in rhino
10 tac marines in rhino
10 tac marines in rhino
10 tac marines in rhino
5 assault marines with 2 flamers in pod
5 assault marines with 2 flamers in pod
5 devs in razorback
5 devs in razorback
5 scouts
5 scouts
5 scouts
inquisitor with 3 servo skulls and combi melta
1850
Khan goes with a cmd squad or assault marines, and the chappy and inq go with a cmd squad. Every squad combat squads every single game
So in nova format, its pretty much impossible to keep me from maxing turn by turn primary. as for 2ndaries, I have been able to get linebraker in all but 1 of my games, I always take marked for death as well (vs the penta flyrant list its usually the malenthrope) but I pretty much give up all 3 2ndaries by turn 2 lol. So the game comes down to if I can keep the bug player from getting more then 6 on his primary and he can keep me from getting the last 2 points on my 2ndary. I feel like the matchup is 60/40 in the nid players favor but this can change depending on how many psy screams he gets.
To add to what Krootman said, I think kill points is another area Flyrant heavy Tyranids can gain some ground in NOVA format. Lictors/Mawlocs and all can be deepstruck out of reach and beyond extreme dice or a Flyrant exploding itself on perils (Like last game -_-) they really have no way of dealing with them.
jy2 wrote: Trygon coming in isn't really great mobility. At the earliest he comes in on T2 and you cannot use the hole until T3 or later. Sure, hormagants are fast....but they can be stopped in their tracks by enemy assault units. Their "mobility" can be "controlled" by certain armies.
When I talk about mobility, I mean that you can reach the far-away objective in just 1 turn. Lictors can do it. Mawlocs can do it. Deepstriking units can do it. Flyers/jump infantry can potentially do it as they can move up to 18" (non-flying) and more importantly, they can move over screening units. Ground-based units, no matter how fast they are (unless they are Slaaneshi-fast) just don't have that type of mobility. Sure, they have good ground control, but that isn't the same thing as having good mobility.
The Trygon gives you good mobility on turn 2. He is generally coming in on 2 due to the Swarmlord's bonus. After that, you are relying on the endless swarm feeding things either from your board edge or the Trygon Tunnel.
A Hormagant moves on average 13.25" assuming you are rerolling run moves of 3 or less. If we assume the Trygon tunnel is placed anywhere that is outside of 13.25" from your board edge that means it is giving you mobility to 551 square Inches of board. In Dawn of War and Vanguard, your deployment edge is giving you 954 squard inches of board mobility. Add them up and that is 1505 square inches or roughly 44% of the board. That isn't bad. Basically, you are looking at better mobility on turn 1, and turn 5, and slightly less mobility, but more board control on turn 2-4 compared to a deep strike based mobility list.
All of this depends on you making some of your 4+ rolls for the swarm, which would terrify me a bit with this list, however, in ITC missions you are generally looking at 2-3 objectives to focus on, if you keep one in your deployment area (generally a requirement of the missions), and put the Trygon tunnel near the other, you are doing pretty good. Basically, I would play the list by making sure my 44% single turn mobility accounted for the important areas of the board.
jy2 wrote: Just had another test game. It was me running the Space Marines Battle Company against iNcontrol running Pentyrant Tyranids.
I ran:
2x Demi-Companies:
Ko'sorro Khan
Chaplain
6x5 Tactica squads - 4x w/meltas, 2x w/plasmas, all w/meltabombs, 5 razorbacks, 1 drop pod
2x5 Assault squads - 2x flamers each in 2 drop pods
2x5 Devastator squads - 2x missile launchers each in 2 razorbacks (1 w/TL-lascannons)
1x Ironclad dreadnought in drop pod
Pregame Analysis: IMO, Pentyrant is the hard-counter to Battle Company Space Marines. Pentyrant lists work really well against MSU so they should do well against my marines. However, with almost my entire army being ObSec, I should be able to take the Maelstrom Secondary. With the superiority of Tyranid firepower and the lack of AA for Marines, Tyranids should be able to take the Primary. Basically, the game is going to boil down to this - how well can I survive Tyranid shooting? If I can survive, I should be able to win this game even without killing a whole lot of bugs. It not, then Tyranids have the potential to table my army. I would give bugs the edge in this game because they are better able to achieve the Tertiaries (and in particular, First Blood) than my Marines.
Summary coming out later.
Summary:
In the deployment phase, I scout my transports up 12" to get as close to the objectives as I can (thanks to Khan). Tyranids go first.
Tyranid 1 - Flyrants take off. With their shooting, they kill 5 of my transports and take some hull points off a couple more. First Blood to Tyranids as expected. Also, his 2 Maelstrom objectives were to kill 2 units and so he easily achieves it.
Marines 1 - I need to kill 1 unit and have a unit in my opponent's deployment edge. I drop my ironclad onto his home objective. I get 2 Skyfire objectives. However, I don't have a good shooting unit on either of them. I focus on his Warlord and manage to take off 2W from him. However, fortunately for him, he passes his grounding test (I was ready to assault his Warlord with my terminators). I only achieve 1 Maelstrom objective (unit in his deployment edge).
Tyranid 2 - Mawloc comes in and kills 10 marines, 1 transport and put 1HP on a drop pod as well!!! This turn, he takes out the rest of my transports and kill a few guys. However, he achieves neither of his Maelstrom objectives due to my ObSec guys.
Marines 2 - 1 unit of Assault marines come in. Moved around, put 1-2 wounds on a flyrant. Terminators fail their charge. My ironclad actually makes his assault against the flyrant but dies to a Smash attack (I absorbed his Egrub overwatch with a tactical unit). I do, however, grab both of my Maelstrom objectives.
Tyranid 3 - He is kicking my ass. Flyrants focus on my ObSec infantry and kill most of them (the non-terminator ones). My opponent does make a mistake and charge his lector into my assault marines, only to lose him to my 2 Wall of Death flamer Overwatch (and also giving me one of my Maelstrom objectives, which was to kill an enemy unit). I have 1 devastator squad, 2 assault marine units and a few models from my tacticals remaining (and all of my terminators). He gets one of his Maelstorm objectives (kill 1 unit).
Marines 3 - I don't have much offense left. Shooting puts another wound on a flyrant but fail to ground it. I do insta-kill another lictor with my cyclone terminators. Once again, assault terminators fail another charge. At least I get both of my Maelstrom objectives once again (kill 1 unit and have 1 unit in his deployment zone).
Tyranid 4 - He goes for the killing blow. Mawlocs come out again (after burrowing last turn) on top of my terminators. He kills 3 in 1 unit and 3-4 in another. This turn is brutal as he wipes out 2 terminator squads, 1 of my assault marines and both of my HQ's, including my Warlord. I only have 1 terminator left, 1 unit of devastators, 1 tactical marine, 1 unit of assault marines and 2 drop pods.
Marines 4 - I concede. It turned out that I wouldn't have been tabled by Turn 5, but nonetheless, my Marines have lost convincingly.
Post-Game Thoughts: This is just my 1st game running the Battle Company and I don't think my list was very good (I didn't know you could run Devastator Centurions instead of Devastator marines!). Yet, it could be potentially very good with some more optimization and a little more experience. However, it ended as I kind of suspected. Pentyrant is a great counter to Battle Company marines because it is very effective in dealing with MSU armies. In this game, my Chapter Tactics didn't really help me all that much. I was running White Scars which gives each and every one of my units with Chapter Tactics Hit-&-Run. However, Geoff's army didn't really look to do much assaulting. Rather, he just blasted me away from the air. Against his army, I should have chosen the Red Scorpions Chapter Tactics, which would have given all my tactical squads and veteran sergeants FNP. Or even Red Hunters, which could have potentially given my army Skyfire for 1 turn.
Anyways, the point I want to make is that as good as the Battle Company is (it gave me 525-pts of free transports!!!), Tyranids have the tools to deal with them. Marines are resilient due to their numbers. However, they just don't hit very hard and will generally have problems against flyer armies. I believe the Battle Company will be a top-tier army. However, Tyranids do have the tools to not only take them on, but to give them problems as well.
So I have been playing quite a few games with white scars gladius strike force (9 so far with another 5 scheduled between tomorrow and sunday) and have gone 7 and 2 vs good opponents, those loses coming to nicks daemons (of course lol) and turbo 997s nids. It was a pretty brutal game where he took it 18 to 16 in nova format, that said it was my 2nd game with the army and I think the changes I made can make the matchup winnable.
Currently my scars list is the following
Khan
chaplin with auspex
command squad with 5 melta guns in pod
command squad with 5 melta guns in pod
10 tac marines in rhino
10 tac marines in rhino
10 tac marines in rhino
10 tac marines in rhino
10 tac marines in rhino
10 tac marines in rhino
5 assault marines with 2 flamers in pod
5 assault marines with 2 flamers in pod
5 devs in razorback
5 devs in razorback
5 scouts
5 scouts
5 scouts
inquisitor with 3 servo skulls and combi melta
1850
Khan goes with a cmd squad or assault marines, and the chappy and inq go with a cmd squad. Every squad combat squads every single game
So in nova format, its pretty much impossible to keep me from maxing turn by turn primary. as for 2ndaries, I have been able to get linebraker in all but 1 of my games, I always take marked for death as well (vs the penta flyrant list its usually the malenthrope) but I pretty much give up all 3 2ndaries by turn 2 lol. So the game comes down to if I can keep the bug player from getting more then 6 on his primary and he can keep me from getting the last 2 points on my 2ndary. I feel like the matchup is 60/40 in the nid players favor but this can change depending on how many psy screams he gets.
This is my next Battle Company list that I am going to try and I think it's going to be very brutal.
jy2 wrote: Trygon coming in isn't really great mobility. At the earliest he comes in on T2 and you cannot use the hole until T3 or later. Sure, hormagants are fast....but they can be stopped in their tracks by enemy assault units. Their "mobility" can be "controlled" by certain armies.
When I talk about mobility, I mean that you can reach the far-away objective in just 1 turn. Lictors can do it. Mawlocs can do it. Deepstriking units can do it. Flyers/jump infantry can potentially do it as they can move up to 18" (non-flying) and more importantly, they can move over screening units. Ground-based units, no matter how fast they are (unless they are Slaaneshi-fast) just don't have that type of mobility. Sure, they have good ground control, but that isn't the same thing as having good mobility.
The Trygon gives you good mobility on turn 2. He is generally coming in on 2 due to the Swarmlord's bonus. After that, you are relying on the endless swarm feeding things either from your board edge or the Trygon Tunnel.
A Hormagant moves on average 13.25" assuming you are rerolling run moves of 3 or less. If we assume the Trygon tunnel is placed anywhere that is outside of 13.25" from your board edge that means it is giving you mobility to 551 square Inches of board. In Dawn of War and Vanguard, your deployment edge is giving you 954 squard inches of board mobility. Add them up and that is 1505 square inches or roughly 44% of the board. That isn't bad. Basically, you are looking at better mobility on turn 1, and turn 5, and slightly less mobility, but more board control on turn 2-4 compared to a deep strike based mobility list.
All of this depends on you making some of your 4+ rolls for the swarm, which would terrify me a bit with this list, however, in ITC missions you are generally looking at 2-3 objectives to focus on, if you keep one in your deployment area (generally a requirement of the missions), and put the Trygon tunnel near the other, you are doing pretty good. Basically, I would play the list by making sure my 44% single turn mobility accounted for the important areas of the board.
Just 1 trygon hole doesn't give the army good mobility. There are a number of issues with it:
1. Only 1 unit can come out of it at a time.
2. With just 1 hole, armies like MSU, summoned units or horde armies can easily surround the hole, thus preventing you from using it as a deployment edge.
3. Without flyrants in the army, and if you put it deep inside my deployment zone, then Synapse - or rather, the lack of Synapse - then becomes a problem. What good is the unit if it comes in, gets shot and then falls back? Even if you fall back into Synapse, you will auto-regroup but won't be able to do anything for another turn.
I'd feel better about the "mobility" of an Endless Swarm army if it ran 2 trygons as opposed to just only 1. Running 2 trygons in such a list just gives the army more flexibility IMO. But in any case, kudos to the player for making his Endless Swarm Swarmlord/dima list work. That is no small feat.
I tried out a harridan for the first time yesterday, practicing for the ukgt championships.
1500 pts eternal war mission
My list was
harridan
2 flyrants
3 lictors
Malanthrope
4 mucolids
I played vs eldar
Farseer
4 x 4 scatter jetbikes
1 x 5 scatter jetbikes? Number may be off here
9 hornets.
He had first turn.
Even with 2 up cover, i was tabled turn 1.
I think i give up with nids right now. I just cant bear the upset of losing to eldar anymore!
Edit: that was a bit abrupt. I think it was a combo of alot of bad luck and the sheer horror of losing the harridan, 2 flyrants and malanthrope in 1 round of shooting.
What im wracking my head around is trying to manage a good TAC nid list that comes in at 1500 pts.
Is anyone else attending any of the heats and considering taking nids? If so, what are you thinking of running?
I think MSU is a must. Big expensive units ( like harridan ) are a big no go with all the d and mass fire power around unfortunately!
jy2 wrote: Just had another test game. It was me running the Space Marines Battle Company against iNcontrol running Pentyrant Tyranids.
I ran:
2x Demi-Companies:
Ko'sorro Khan
Chaplain
6x5 Tactica squads - 4x w/meltas, 2x w/plasmas, all w/meltabombs, 5 razorbacks, 1 drop pod
2x5 Assault squads - 2x flamers each in 2 drop pods
2x5 Devastator squads - 2x missile launchers each in 2 razorbacks (1 w/TL-lascannons)
1x Ironclad dreadnought in drop pod
Pregame Analysis: IMO, Pentyrant is the hard-counter to Battle Company Space Marines. Pentyrant lists work really well against MSU so they should do well against my marines. However, with almost my entire army being ObSec, I should be able to take the Maelstrom Secondary. With the superiority of Tyranid firepower and the lack of AA for Marines, Tyranids should be able to take the Primary. Basically, the game is going to boil down to this - how well can I survive Tyranid shooting? If I can survive, I should be able to win this game even without killing a whole lot of bugs. It not, then Tyranids have the potential to table my army. I would give bugs the edge in this game because they are better able to achieve the Tertiaries (and in particular, First Blood) than my Marines.
Summary coming out later.
Summary:
In the deployment phase, I scout my transports up 12" to get as close to the objectives as I can (thanks to Khan). Tyranids go first.
Tyranid 1 - Flyrants take off. With their shooting, they kill 5 of my transports and take some hull points off a couple more. First Blood to Tyranids as expected. Also, his 2 Maelstrom objectives were to kill 2 units and so he easily achieves it.
Marines 1 - I need to kill 1 unit and have a unit in my opponent's deployment edge. I drop my ironclad onto his home objective. I get 2 Skyfire objectives. However, I don't have a good shooting unit on either of them. I focus on his Warlord and manage to take off 2W from him. However, fortunately for him, he passes his grounding test (I was ready to assault his Warlord with my terminators). I only achieve 1 Maelstrom objective (unit in his deployment edge).
Tyranid 2 - Mawloc comes in and kills 10 marines, 1 transport and put 1HP on a drop pod as well!!! This turn, he takes out the rest of my transports and kill a few guys. However, he achieves neither of his Maelstrom objectives due to my ObSec guys.
Marines 2 - 1 unit of Assault marines come in. Moved around, put 1-2 wounds on a flyrant. Terminators fail their charge. My ironclad actually makes his assault against the flyrant but dies to a Smash attack (I absorbed his Egrub overwatch with a tactical unit). I do, however, grab both of my Maelstrom objectives.
Tyranid 3 - He is kicking my ass. Flyrants focus on my ObSec infantry and kill most of them (the non-terminator ones). My opponent does make a mistake and charge his lector into my assault marines, only to lose him to my 2 Wall of Death flamer Overwatch (and also giving me one of my Maelstrom objectives, which was to kill an enemy unit). I have 1 devastator squad, 2 assault marine units and a few models from my tacticals remaining (and all of my terminators). He gets one of his Maelstorm objectives (kill 1 unit).
Marines 3 - I don't have much offense left. Shooting puts another wound on a flyrant but fail to ground it. I do insta-kill another lictor with my cyclone terminators. Once again, assault terminators fail another charge. At least I get both of my Maelstrom objectives once again (kill 1 unit and have 1 unit in his deployment zone).
Tyranid 4 - He goes for the killing blow. Mawlocs come out again (after burrowing last turn) on top of my terminators. He kills 3 in 1 unit and 3-4 in another. This turn is brutal as he wipes out 2 terminator squads, 1 of my assault marines and both of my HQ's, including my Warlord. I only have 1 terminator left, 1 unit of devastators, 1 tactical marine, 1 unit of assault marines and 2 drop pods.
Marines 4 - I concede. It turned out that I wouldn't have been tabled by Turn 5, but nonetheless, my Marines have lost convincingly.
Post-Game Thoughts: This is just my 1st game running the Battle Company and I don't think my list was very good (I didn't know you could run Devastator Centurions instead of Devastator marines!). Yet, it could be potentially very good with some more optimization and a little more experience. However, it ended as I kind of suspected. Pentyrant is a great counter to Battle Company marines because it is very effective in dealing with MSU armies. In this game, my Chapter Tactics didn't really help me all that much. I was running White Scars which gives each and every one of my units with Chapter Tactics Hit-&-Run. However, Geoff's army didn't really look to do much assaulting. Rather, he just blasted me away from the air. Against his army, I should have chosen the Red Scorpions Chapter Tactics, which would have given all my tactical squads and veteran sergeants FNP. Or even Red Hunters, which could have potentially given my army Skyfire for 1 turn.
Anyways, the point I want to make is that as good as the Battle Company is (it gave me 525-pts of free transports!!!), Tyranids have the tools to deal with them. Marines are resilient due to their numbers. However, they just don't hit very hard and will generally have problems against flyer armies. I believe the Battle Company will be a top-tier army. However, Tyranids do have the tools to not only take them on, but to give them problems as well.
So I rematched turbos 5 flyrant list this past weekend with my gladius , I ran the following list
2 demi compaines
Khan
Chaplin with auspex
2 10 man tac rhinos
4 5 man tacs razorbacks
2 5 man cmd squads 5 meltas in pod
2 5 man assault squads 5 man 2 flamers in pod
2 5 man devs in rbs
1st company formation
3 units of 5 sternguard in pods
Inq with combi melta and 3 skulls
So we played 2 games using the nova packet, he rolled no shreaks which is something important to note but we felt this could happen in a gt so he wanted to test it.
Game 1:
I went first, he started all the flyrants on the board, I podded in 1 cmd squad and 3 sternguard. I auspexed a flyrant hoping to alpha one off the board. I actually killed 2 using a combination of 2+ ammo with sternguard (using the dev doctrine to reroll 1s) and my 5 melta cmd squad auspexing another flyrant. He rolled bad so we reracked.
Game2: he went first we played the relic mission, and while I didnt alpha strike any of his flyrants I was able to grab 17 out of 19 points by turn 4 and we realized there was no way he could catch up.
Long story short, the new additions to my list enables me to alpha a flyrant turn 1 which is important and gives the bug player cause for concern if I go first, almost forcing him to null deploy, ensuring he won't have enough time to remove me off objectives. The more shreaks you roll the easier the match becomes. I do not think it is the auto win hard counter match up we originally thought it was.
Wilson wrote: I tried out a harridan for the first time yesterday, practicing for the ukgt championships.
1500 pts eternal war mission
My list was
harridan
2 flyrants
3 lictors
Malanthrope
4 mucolids
I played vs eldar
Farseer
4 x 4 scatter jetbikes
1 x 5 scatter jetbikes? Number may be off here
9 hornets.
He had first turn.
Even with 2 up cover, i was tabled turn 1.
I think i give up with nids right now. I just cant bear the upset of losing to eldar anymore!
Edit: that was a bit abrupt. I think it was a combo of alot of bad luck and the sheer horror of losing the harridan, 2 flyrants and malanthrope in 1 round of shooting.
What im wracking my head around is trying to manage a good TAC nid list that comes in at 1500 pts.
Is anyone else attending any of the heats and considering taking nids? If so, what are you thinking of running?
I think MSU is a must. Big expensive units ( like harridan ) are a big no go with all the d and mass fire power around unfortunately!
I actually played against iNcontrol and his Harridan Tyranids at a 2500-pt GT tournament. He brought 4-5 flyrants, the Harridan, malanthrope, lictors and mawlocs. I brought a really nasty Eldar list with the seer council.
I actually played against Geoff's Tyranids in the tournament, but due to some atrocious dice on my part, lost the game to him. First of all, Geoff got lucky and got the fly-off-the-table-edge for his Fighter Ace....on his Harridan! Secondly, I had some pretty bad dice. Almost all of my scatterbike units failed the Morale tests when they had to take it, and I believe 2 went off my table edge because of this. My Warp Spiders came in, mishapped and then I roll a . But despite my dice and no-skyfire in my list, I ended killing most of his flyrants (but I couldn't touch the Harridan due to Fighter Ace) and would have won the game had it ended on Turn 5. Alas, my luck was not to be as the game went on to 6 and there I lost it.
Geoff went on to win his first ever GT, going 5-0.
Do not run the Harridan unless you are playing in at least 2K or above. He is just too expensive. I agree that MSU is one of the most competitive Tyranid builds, but really it depends on what you go up against. In larger tournaments - where there are more variety on armies - MSU is the way to go IMO. However, in smaller tournaments where it is much less RPS, then you can take more risks in running the more expensive units.
So curiosity when people are talking MSU nids, what are the builds? Is it just 3-5 flyrants and a bunch of MSU chaff? Or are we looking at something else that is truly MSU (in which a flyrant is not really MSU in my mind).
So I rematched turbos 5 flyrant list this past weekend with my gladius , I ran the following list
2 demi compaines
Khan
Chaplin with auspex
2 10 man tac rhinos
4 5 man tacs razorbacks
2 5 man cmd squads 5 meltas in pod
2 5 man assault squads 5 man 2 flamers in pod
2 5 man devs in rbs
1st company formation
3 units of 5 sternguard in pods
Inq with combi melta and 3 skulls
So we played 2 games using the nova packet, he rolled no shreaks which is something important to note but we felt this could happen in a gt so he wanted to test it.
Game 1:
I went first, he started all the flyrants on the board, I podded in 1 cmd squad and 3 sternguard. I auspexed a flyrant hoping to alpha one off the board. I actually killed 2 using a combination of 2+ ammo with sternguard (using the dev doctrine to reroll 1s) and my 5 melta cmd squad auspexing another flyrant. He rolled bad so we reracked.
Game2: he went first we played the relic mission, and while I didnt alpha strike any of his flyrants I was able to grab 17 out of 19 points by turn 4 and we realized there was no way he could catch up.
Long story short, the new additions to my list enables me to alpha a flyrant turn 1 which is important and gives the bug player cause for concern if I go first, almost forcing him to null deploy, ensuring he won't have enough time to remove me off objectives. The more shreaks you roll the easier the match becomes. I do not think it is the auto win hard counter match up we originally thought it was.
No, it is definitely not an auto-win for Tyranids. Flyrant-spam have the tools to deal with ObSec-spam marines. However, they will always be playing the catchup game if there are Maelstrom (or progressive) objectives involved. I'm not as familiar with the Nova missions, but with the ITC missions, you roll for your Maelstrom objectives. Usually, 2 of kill points, 2 are objectives and 2 are positional objectives (i.e. have 3 units in your deployment edge without an enemy unit contesting, have 1 unit in your opponent's deployment edge). Depending on what you roll on the Maelstrom objectives, usually ObSec-spam marines will still have the advantage in objectives-based objectives whereas flyrant-spam will have the advantage in kill-objectives. As long as the missions have a KP-based mission objective, then flyrant-spam Tyranids will have a good chance against ObSec marines. However, it the missions are mainly objective-based, then marines will still have a slight advantage against Tyranids. In the case of the latter, bugs need to nearly table the Space Marines in order to get the win. Otherwise, they will almost always be down in points.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
winterman wrote: So curiosity when people are talking MSU nids, what are the builds? Is it just 3-5 flyrants and a bunch of MSU chaff? Or are we looking at something else that is truly MSU (in which a flyrant is not really MSU in my mind).
It is a build similar to OrdoSean's #Lictorshame build:
Flyrants
Lictors
Mucolids
Rippers
Mawlocs
Basically, it consists of spamming some of the most cost-effective units in the Tyranid codex. Now there are other MSU Tyranid builds, but the one that Sean Nayden ran is by far the most successful.
BTW, this would be a 1850 Tyranid MSU that I sometimes run, using 4 flyrants:
It is a build similar to OrdoSean's #Lictorshame build:
OK, that's what I thought, just wondered/hoped someone cooked something else up. Been looking at taking advantage of the 3 detachments in order to make an all out MSU army and was looking for inspiration.
It is a build similar to OrdoSean's #Lictorshame build:
OK, that's what I thought, just wondered/hoped someone cooked something else up. Been looking at taking advantage of the 3 detachments in order to make an all out MSU army and was looking for inspiration.
Feel free to share your thoughts with us if you come up with such a list.
There are a number of factors I think any MSU list will need:
1. Offense. You need to still be able to hit your opponent and to hit them hard. Flyrants are the most consistent source of offense for the bugs and hence, the foundation for most bug armies.
2. Resiliency. MSU units are usually fairly easy to kill, which is why you need some cheap but resilient "chaff" in your MSU army. Rippers can hide. Mucolids, who cares if they die. Lictors can go-to-ground in ruins for the 2+ and while doing so, can take a inordinate amount of punishment relative to their cheap cost. Mawlocs are the cheapest cost/wound MC in the book. And flyrants, well, they are flyers which makes them tough to kill.
3. Mobility. You need to have some mobility in your army.
4. Redundancy. MSU lists usually involve spam for reasons of redundancy. Thus, if you kill any single 1 unit, the army can still continue functioning at a high level/output.
5. Ability to take ground objectives as well. While you won't out-wrestle ObSec armies for ground or Maelstrom objectives, you still need the bodies to seize objectives from other armies. In this regard, mobility of scoring bodies is also very important. You might not be able to take the objective away from your opponent, but the ability to place your scoring units in far-away objectives gives you an advantage over an opponent who isn't able to do the same thing.
There are multiple ways of building MSU Tyranids, but IMO, #Lictorshame+flyrant-spam hits a homerun when it comes to MSU bugs. They satisfy all of the traits that I listed above and they are a proven, successful build.
However, I think that another MSU build that can be considered is the Endless Swarm. Throw in 2 malanthropes, 2 trygons and some flyrants and I think that it can actually be very good.
I'm really enjoying my 3 Tyrant / Superbeast/ 2 Tervigon list, adding in the three individual Biovores really gives it a massive amount of flexibility (and reliability) over the Mawloc.
So I really really like 5 flyrants in nova format...but I keep feeling like the rest of the points I can use is meh at best...sooo I came up with the following list
Daemon allies
HOT lvl 2 with disc
HOT lvl1
10 horrors
1845
16 dice, and gives me the abilty to summon daemons to hold objectives and give me some kind of ground and backfield presence.
I plan on giving it a test run sometime this week or next week. I dont actually plan on taking this to nova as ill be using my sms, but I am sure going to try it.
Oh and a 6 flyrant list placed 2nd at the togit rtt I was at this weekend that had alot of good players playing (navatti, nayden, and some other players who regularly do well at gts. )
Iechine wrote: I'm really enjoying my 3 Tyrant / Superbeast/ 2 Tervigon list, adding in the three individual Biovores really gives it a massive amount of flexibility (and reliability) over the Mawloc.
I actually plan to run a cc-flyrant in my next Tyranid build! But alas, no tervigon, not yet.
krootman. wrote: So I really really like 5 flyrants in nova format...but I keep feeling like the rest of the points I can use is meh at best...sooo I came up with the following list
Daemon allies
HOT lvl 2 with disc
HOT lvl1
10 horrors
1845
16 dice, and gives me the abilty to summon daemons to hold objectives and give me some kind of ground and backfield presence.
I plan on giving it a test run sometime this week or next week. I dont actually plan on taking this to nova as ill be using my sms, but I am sure going to try it.
Oh and a 6 flyrant list placed 2nd at the togit rtt I was at this weekend that had alot of good players playing (navatti, nayden, and some other players who regularly do well at gts. )
Too bad in the ITC format, we are limited by:
1. Each formation is 0-1 so no dual of anything.
2. No CtA allies, so no daemon summoning for bugs.
However, if I were to go by Nova rules, I would go something like this:
2x Leviathan's:
6x Dakka Flyrants w/5x Egrubs
6x Mucolids
Lord of Change - Lvl 3, 1x Greater Gift
3x Nurglings
I've got 1 less warp charge but another dangerous FMC. More importantly, I've got mobile summoning as well as more reliable summoning (with 1 caster as opposed to 3 casters to dip into the Warp pool).
Wilson wrote: I tried out a harridan for the first time yesterday, practicing for the ukgt championships.
1500 pts eternal war mission
My list was
harridan
2 flyrants
3 lictors
Malanthrope
4 mucolids
I played vs eldar
Farseer
4 x 4 scatter jetbikes
1 x 5 scatter jetbikes? Number may be off here
9 hornets.
He had first turn.
Even with 2 up cover, i was tabled turn 1.
I think i give up with nids right now. I just cant bear the upset of losing to eldar anymore!
Edit: that was a bit abrupt. I think it was a combo of alot of bad luck and the sheer horror of losing the harridan, 2 flyrants and malanthrope in 1 round of shooting.
What im wracking my head around is trying to manage a good TAC nid list that comes in at 1500 pts.
Is anyone else attending any of the heats and considering taking nids? If so, what are you thinking of running?
I think MSU is a must. Big expensive units ( like harridan ) are a big no go with all the d and mass fire power around unfortunately!
I actually think this year might be the death of the GT in the UK. The Bristol event pack is such crap it's unbelievable. The only shining light of hope is the Northern Warlords event pack, which as an actual competitive pack, for a competitive event, ran by competitive players. I wouldn't beat yourself up to much about it Wilson.
2. No CtA allies, so no daemon summoning for bugs.
However, if I were to go by Nova rules, I would go something like this:
2x Leviathan's:
6x Dakka Flyrants w/5x Egrubs
6x Mucolids
Lord of Change - Lvl 3, 1x Greater Gift
3x Nurglings
I've got 1 less warp charge but another dangerous FMC. More importantly, I've got mobile summoning as well as more reliable summoning (with 1 caster as opposed to 3 casters to dip into the Warp pool).
Thats not a bad list, you could somehow maybe drop e grubs from 1 more flyrant and add portal on the loc for more random single horror units lol.
I am actually looking forward to playing itc format after bfs.
Lol. It isn't a list that I would recommend to people, but it is a list that I might playtest against good friends who bring equally lol-able lists.
he this is the only bug list id currently tell people who want to be competitive to run! But I am lucky in the sense that my play group is all people who are on the same page competitive wise, and are all testing for the same event. We have been getting some fantastic test games in.
New player here, a couple of friends and I are new to 40k and i'm looking for some advice on beating necrons and chaos. I've been buying models for approx a month now and have amassed a fair few.
1x living artillery with 3x warriors w/ venom cannon
3x biovores
1x exocrine
however I also have an extra carnifex, hive crone and ~24 extra hormagaunts but can't bring them into my list yet as we're trying to play 2k points
My friends play necron (decurion attachment)
He currently has (that I know of)
1x ctan (the one with the gaze)
1x ghost arc
1x annihilation barge
1x doom scythe
20x warriors
5x immortals + overlord
5x pretorians in the formation which lets them reroll hits/wounds
1x stalker for the formation.
He may join with my chaos collecting friend to bring in a few oblits and a helldrake.
My current question is how on earth do I beat that list of necrons? Do you guys have any opinions on how I can improve my list?
New player here, a couple of friends and I are new to 40k and i'm looking for some advice on beating necrons and chaos. I've been buying models for approx a month now and have amassed a fair few.
1x living artillery with 3x warriors w/ venom cannon
3x biovores
1x exocrine
however I also have an extra carnifex, hive crone and ~24 extra hormagaunts but can't bring them into my list yet as we're trying to play 2k points
My friends play necron (decurion attachment)
He currently has (that I know of)
1x ctan (the one with the gaze)
1x ghost arc
1x annihilation barge
1x doom scythe
20x warriors
5x immortals + overlord
5x pretorians in the formation which lets them reroll hits/wounds
1x stalker for the formation.
He may join with my chaos collecting friend to bring in a few oblits and a helldrake.
My current question is how on earth do I beat that list of necrons? Do you guys have any opinions on how I can improve my list?
Necrons are tough but the army that your opponent is running isn't really optimized. I think your list can deal with his, even if you can't quite wipe out his units. Play to the objectives via board control. His units, other than the c'tan and praetorians, aren't overly aggressive and so will back away from your units. The c'tan and praetorians, you can tarpit them with your gribblies. This is my recommendation for units to use:
2x Flyrants
Dakkafex
Tyrannofex
Tyrannocyte (can put either the dakkafex or t-fex in here depending on how he sets up)
Malanthrope
Termagants
Hormagants
2x zoans (in separate units of 1 each)
Living Artillery Node formation
I would swap out the Cryptus stealers for another dakkafex + more hormagants or for just more hormagants.
Advance with your army. Pound his 20-warrior brick with your biovores. Exocrine can go after the praetorians. Kill off his praetorians with focused fire between flyrants, dakkafex and exocrines if they are in range. Tarpit his C'tan with gants. Play to the objectives. You don't necessarily have to kill off his army to win (except in the case of VP missions). You just need to be able to control the objectives and to keep his guys away from them.
Had a great game last night using my new super friends list with the Librarius Conclave. How do you guys plan to counter all those psychic powers casting on a 2+ ?
Dozer Blades wrote: Had a great game last night using my new super friends list with the Librarius Conclave. How do you guys plan to counter all those psychic powers casting on a 2+ ?
Who are your other "friends" in your "superfriends" list and what deathstar is this? Not sure what to counter if I don't know what the unit is.
Champions of Fenris:
Wolf Lord - thunderwolf - runic armor - stormshield - thunderhammer
Iron Priest - thunderwolf
Iron Priest - thunderwolf
Grey Hunters
drop pod
There's really not much bugs can do to counter the psychic powers of the Conclave, other than to remain within 12" of the unit and to wait for the caster to Perils.
As for a counter to the list, flyrant-spam naturally counters it. The bikers have next to no anti-air. Thus, flyrants will reign supreme as long as they don't go after any Invisible units. Just pick off the unbuffed unit(s) and leave the bikestar alone until there are no other targets left.
Of course, on the other hand, bikers can ignore the flyrants and just try to kill any bugs on the ground while grabbing Maelstrom points.
Also, against the bikestar, you've got to split up the objectives and toss them into the 4 corners. The Librarian Conclave will want to stick together. The Tyranid player will want to break them apart. Spreading the objectives is the best way for the bugs to do this. Stopping their psychic powers is just secondary.
BTW, the list could be made more nasty by downgrading the Chapter Master to a Captain, downgrading the Wolf Lord to a Battle Leader and then dropping 1 grav-gun or storm shield. Then you've got the points to add another TWC Iron Priest.
They've got really bad leadership so tactics around that work well.
Psychic Scream, Pinning, Blind. Pinning can come from Psychic Powers and Barbed Stranglers, as well as Living Artillery. May kill a few extra guys. Blind from Gargoyles.
Fear is also another big thing, Dimachaeron should, theoretically, have a field day against them. Skytyrant formation also works well.
Flyrants are necessary to deal with backfield support (Mek Gunz and Lootas).
I'll save 100000 for JY2, as this thread is his baby.
But, have any of you guys had a chance to play against the new Ravenwing? I was very impressed. Played ATC mission 1 out to a 17-17 draw, even though I had a bit of bad luck early. The Darkshroud makes everything super hard to kill, and my opponent positioned it well so I never caught it with EGrubs. But the rerolling jinks is super useful vs Flyrants as he snapshots anyways. I did manage to do a lot of damage with assaults and flamer templates, S6 ap 4 was reliably getting me a bike a turn and Devourers would get me an odd kill, so I was just whittling them down for the endgame. I lost progressive that way but drew the center and won Emperors will. Sadly the game ended at 5, I think that by turn 6 I would've won.
jifel wrote: I'll save 100000 for JY2, as this thread is his baby.
But, have any of you guys had a chance to play against the new Ravenwing? I was very impressed. Played ATC mission 1 out to a 17-17 draw, even though I had a bit of bad luck early. The Darkshroud makes everything super hard to kill, and my opponent positioned it well so I never caught it with EGrubs. But the rerolling jinks is super useful vs Flyrants as he snapshots anyways. I did manage to do a lot of damage with assaults and flamer templates, S6 ap 4 was reliably getting me a bike a turn and Devourers would get me an odd kill, so I was just whittling them down for the endgame. I lost progressive that way but drew the center and won Emperors will. Sadly the game ended at 5, I think that by turn 6 I would've won.
They are really good and we will have problems against them. I had 1 game against them and I was floored by just how good they are! Now, to make adjustments to my BAO Tyranid list.
Not to derail the conversation, but has anyone come up with an effective way to deal with Reclamation Legion (4+ reanimate, re-roll 1's).
My friend recently got into the game (Awesome!!!!) and chose Necrons as his army. We have had a couple great, close battles. But that 4+ reanimate is just brutal. I CAN NOT put his stuff down. I have to play the objectives/tar pit him or it's GG.
Currently, I run 2 dakkafexes that have shredded marines for me very consistently. However, they barely scratch Necrons. I am thinking of changing out 1 of their TLDWBLW for a heavy venom cannon each. Ignore some armor and also threaten vehicles.
If you were going to swap out for a cannon, the Stranglethorn would be a better option. AP4 as well, only Str6, but large blast and pinning. It can still take a hullpoint away from transports occasionally too.
Sinful Hero wrote: If you were going to swap out for a cannon, the Stranglethorn would be a better option. AP4 as well, only Str6, but large blast and pinning. It can still take a hullpoint away from transports occasionally too.
I'm seeing AP5 for the Stranglethorn Cannon on battlescribe...
Feldon wrote: Not to derail the conversation, but has anyone come up with an effective way to deal with Reclamation Legion (4+ reanimate, re-roll 1's).
My friend recently got into the game (Awesome!!!!) and chose Necrons as his army. We have had a couple great, close battles. But that 4+ reanimate is just brutal. I CAN NOT put his stuff down. I have to play the objectives/tar pit him or it's GG.
Currently, I run 2 dakkafexes that have shredded marines for me very consistently. However, they barely scratch Necrons. I am thinking of changing out 1 of their TLDWBLW for a heavy venom cannon each. Ignore some armor and also threaten vehicles.
Thoughts?
Actually i'm in the same position, my friend and I have just started playing and i'm currently 2-0 against him, MVP for both games has been the exocrine and biovores in the living artillery formation to deal with praetorians and warriors respectively with flyrants to deal with vehicles with either egrubs or 12 twin linked shots at str 6 wounding vehicles (from behind vs quantum shielding) usually being able to take out at least 1 vehicle per turn (i have 2 flyrants). Dakkafexes are great, malanthrope was also absolutely invaluable last game. With cover coming from gribblies out in front and the 2+ malanthropes there was at least a 3+ cover across alot of my army if you place him well.
My list was:
2 flyrants w/ egrubs and 2x tldwblw
12 hormagaunts x2
12 temagaunts
3 warriors w/ boneswords and 1x venom cannon for formation (i hold these back to help deal with deep striking praetorians and to give synapse + living artillery reroll to the exo and biovores)
Children of cryptus - although they tend to get destroyed my opponent really doesn't feel like he has any option but to try and tarpit them so infiltrating into cover with stealth to zone my opponent away from part of the map is great
1x exocrine
3x biovores
1x malanthrope
3x zoanthropes - Great for removing quantum shielding, the extra warp dice are great vs an army that doesnt have psykers
1x hive crone - great for dealing with flyers however may be unnecessary, i just use it because i like the model!
In the future my intentions are to drop the children of cryptus as well as either the hive crone or termagaunts and bring in a dimachaeron in a tyrannocyte.
All the best, necrons are really frustrating to play against!
Here is a preview of my Bay Area Open (BAO) GT list. The BAO is a 2-day 1850 tournament on July 11-12 and there will be about 130 players or so.
Below is a closer pic of my converted and finally completed Tyranid beastie.
Spoiler:
My goal is to win Best Tyranids and a Top 10 placing. Hope I can make the Hive Mind proud.
Going off what your picture is if guess your list is
5 x 240 Tyrants
6 x Mucoloids
Dimachaeron
3 x Mawlocs
But that comes in at 1910 points so I must be getting something wrong somewhere? Going to hazard a guess the other thing is going to be a count as Mawloc instead?
Good luck anyway! I'm sure you'll do us all proud.
Here is a preview of my Bay Area Open (BAO) GT list. The BAO is a 2-day 1850 tournament on July 11-12 and there will be about 130 players or so.
Below is a closer pic of my converted and finally completed Tyranid beastie.
Spoiler:
My goal is to win Best Tyranids and a Top 10 placing. Hope I can make the Hive Mind proud.
Going off what your picture is if guess your list is
5 x 240 Tyrants
6 x Mucoloids
Dimachaeron
3 x Mawlocs
But that comes in at 1910 points so I must be getting something wrong somewhere? Going to hazard a guess the other thing is going to be a count as Mawloc instead?
Good luck anyway! I'm sure you'll do us all proud.
Interesting no malanthrope or way to control reserves with four mawlocs and five tyrants that will need reserving often.
Funbug No.1 wrote: Nice work, Jy2. It's nice to see a Tyranid conversion now and then. I don't see too many, which is a pity. I take it it represents a Dimachaeron?
Yeah, I converted it to be a dimachaeron.
However, for the purposes of this tournament, I am running him just as a mawloc. He will be the centerpiece of my army.
Here is a preview of my Bay Area Open (BAO) GT list. The BAO is a 2-day 1850 tournament on July 11-12 and there will be about 130 players or so.
Spoiler:
Below is a closer pic of my converted and finally completed Tyranid beastie.
My goal is to win Best Tyranids and a Top 10 placing. Hope I can make the Hive Mind proud.
Going off what your picture is if guess your list is
5 x 240 Tyrants
6 x Mucoloids
Dimachaeron
3 x Mawlocs
But that comes in at 1910 points so I must be getting something wrong somewhere? Going to hazard a guess the other thing is going to be a count as Mawloc instead?
Good luck anyway! I'm sure you'll do us all proud.
Correct. I am running him as a mawloc.
There is 1 last minute change however. I swapped out 1 mucolid for 1x3 spore mines.
Here is a preview of my Bay Area Open (BAO) GT list. The BAO is a 2-day 1850 tournament on July 11-12 and there will be about 130 players or so.
Spoiler:
Below is a closer pic of my converted and finally completed Tyranid beastie.
My goal is to win Best Tyranids and a Top 10 placing. Hope I can make the Hive Mind proud.
Going off what your picture is if guess your list is
5 x 240 Tyrants
6 x Mucoloids
Dimachaeron
3 x Mawlocs
But that comes in at 1910 points so I must be getting something wrong somewhere? Going to hazard a guess the other thing is going to be a count as Mawloc instead?
Good luck anyway! I'm sure you'll do us all proud.
Interesting no malanthrope or way to control reserves with four mawlocs and five tyrants that will need reserving often.
Yeah, it isn't very typical of most "balanced" Tyranid lists nowadays. But I've got a philosophy on which I am putting to the test. It may flop or it may do well. I'll see soon enough. Plus, I love to run more monsters.
Are you worried if you null reserve with the big guys, the spores will be blown off the table if terrain isnt heavy and you might get tabled early?
I've never dabbled really with a reserve/null style Nid list. I think its very interesting.
Ratius wrote: Are you worried if you null reserve with the big guys, the spores will be blown off the table if terrain isnt heavy and you might get tabled early?
I've never dabbled really with a reserve/null style Nid list. I think its very interesting.
It's not something you can rely on doing, more of if the opportunity and situation allows or requires it then you do it. If the table has no where to hide, you just wouldn't do it.
Here is a preview of my Bay Area Open (BAO) GT list. The BAO is a 2-day 1850 tournament on July 11-12 and there will be about 130 players or so.
Below is a closer pic of my converted and finally completed Tyranid beastie.
Spoiler:
My goal is to win Best Tyranids and a Top 10 placing. Hope I can make the Hive Mind proud.
Well, regardless, good luck on the tournament Jim. I don't think the Hive Mind will be discouraged by your efforts. Who knows, maybe on the way home the 7th edition Tyranid codex will be release for preorder.
Game #2, I went up against Eldar with 5x5 Scatterbikes, 3x3 Hornets and Inquisition allies.
Game #3, I went up against Abusepuppy, who won the TSHFT GT earlier this year. He played Space Marines Battle Company with Eldar allies (4x3 Scatterbikes).
So far I am 3-0 on Day #1 and in the top 4.
Tomorrow is going to be really, really tough. My Game #4 opponent will be Alan "Pajamapants" Barajmovich, a multiple-GT winner, member of Team USA ETC and the top player currently after Day #1, on Table #1. If I can beat him, then I think I have a good shot at winning another major GT with Tyranids!
Wish me luck guys, I'm gonna need it.
Ratius wrote: Are you worried if you null reserve with the big guys, the spores will be blown off the table if terrain isnt heavy and you might get tabled early?
I've never dabbled really with a reserve/null style Nid list. I think its very interesting.
Not really. Mucolids have Shroud and so if I place them in ruins, then I will have 5 guys with 2+ cover saves. They aren't going to all die at once.
And then my spore mines are a unit that I can easily hide to ensure that I don't get tabled.
BTW, the terrain at BAO is pretty top-notch. You can expect almost every table to have some type of LOS-blocking terrain and ruins symmetrically. Chances are really good that I will be able to count on decent terrain. Now that is what a good tournament should provide - good and fair terrain for all.
Ratius wrote: Are you worried if you null reserve with the big guys, the spores will be blown off the table if terrain isnt heavy and you might get tabled early?
I've never dabbled really with a reserve/null style Nid list. I think its very interesting.
It's not something you can rely on doing, more of if the opportunity and situation allows or requires it then you do it. If the table has no where to hide, you just wouldn't do it.
That's right, and if I have to, I will deploy 1 or even 2 mawlocs as well as flyrants if necessary. So if the opponent has, for example, 6 alpha-strike units, then I will deploy a total of 7 units (if terrain is bad) to ensure that at least 1 unit will survive.
Basically, deployment is very important but the Tyranids have what it takes to survive most alpha-strikes.
Well, regardless, good luck on the tournament Jim. I don't think the Hive Mind will be discouraged by your efforts. Who knows, maybe on the way home the 7th edition Tyranid codex will be release for preorder.
Thanks! And as long as I don't lose too badly my next 2 games, I think I will reach my goals. Tomorrow, I can potentially win the whole tournament if I get 2 more wins.
Game #2, I went up against Eldar with 5x5 Scatterbikes, 3x3 Hornets and Inquisition allies.
Game #3, I went up against Abusepuppy, who won the TSHFT GT earlier this year. He played Space Marines Battle Company with Eldar allies (4x3 Scatterbikes).
So far I am 3-0 on Day #1 and in the top 4.
Tomorrow is going to be really, really tough. My Game #4 opponent will be Alan "Pajamapants" Barajmovich, a multiple-GT winner, member of Team USA ETC and the top player currently after Day #1, on Table #1. If I can beat him, then I think I have a good shot at winning another major GT with Tyranids!
Wish me luck guys, I'm gonna need it.
Ratius wrote: Are you worried if you null reserve with the big guys, the spores will be blown off the table if terrain isnt heavy and you might get tabled early?
I've never dabbled really with a reserve/null style Nid list. I think its very interesting.
Not really. Mucolids have Shroud and so if I place them in ruins, then I will have 5 guys with 2+ cover saves. They aren't going to all die at once.
And then my spore mines are a unit that I can easily hide to ensure that I don't get tabled.
BTW, the terrain at BAO is pretty top-notch. You can expect almost every table to have some type of LOS-blocking terrain and ruins symmetrically. Chances are really good that I will be able to count on decent terrain. Now that is what a good tournament should provide - good and fair terrain for all.
Ratius wrote: Are you worried if you null reserve with the big guys, the spores will be blown off the table if terrain isnt heavy and you might get tabled early?
I've never dabbled really with a reserve/null style Nid list. I think its very interesting.
It's not something you can rely on doing, more of if the opportunity and situation allows or requires it then you do it. If the table has no where to hide, you just wouldn't do it.
That's right, and if I have to, I will deploy 1 or even 2 mawlocs as well as flyrants if necessary. So if the opponent has, for example, 6 alpha-strike units, then I will deploy a total of 7 units (if terrain is bad) to ensure that at least 1 unit will survive.
Basically, deployment is very important but the Tyranids have what it takes to survive most alpha-strikes.
Well, regardless, good luck on the tournament Jim. I don't think the Hive Mind will be discouraged by your efforts. Who knows, maybe on the way home the 7th edition Tyranid codex will be release for preorder.
Thanks! And as long as I don't lose too badly my next 2 games, I think I will reach my goals. Tomorrow, I can potentially win the whole tournament if I get 2 more wins.
Hmm, good stuff! Glad to hear you're doing so well so far, and best of luck in your next game! It'd be great to see Nids bring home another GT win. By the way, are you bringing Nids or SM to the ATC this year?
i lose realy bad he start the match and kill my malanthrope shooting with stalker .... yes he have some luck, then dimachaeron go down for the bikes and at the end of his fisrt turn he have 6 point ( we played maelstrom 2 )
i lose realy bad he start the match and kill my malanthrope shooting with stalker .... yes he have some luck, then dimachaeron go down for the bikes and at the end of his fisrt turn he have 6 point ( we played maelstrom 2 )
Well, I can help you out a bit. For starters, do you bring that list a lot, or did you have the match planned? Because I want to say that list seems pretty tailored against our flying. That being said, your best bet would be a list much like what Jim brought to the BAO. Mawlocs in reserve are good options for taking out some of those issues. Those vehicles can't move far if grouped up, which will give you some good chances to take them out with the mawlocs. Otherwise, the only other option is to play to the objectives and bring lots of gribblies. TMCs die pretty quickly to all that grav.
i lose realy bad he start the match and kill my malanthrope shooting with stalker .... yes he have some luck, then dimachaeron go down for the bikes and at the end of his fisrt turn he have 6 point ( we played maelstrom 2 )
Even with 6 stalkers he shouldn't be killing your your Malanthrope turn 1, 2.6 wounds against 3+ or 1.3 wounds of you are in ruins, has it just been bad luck?
Even less than that, 0.8 wounds as they all had Skyfire so would have been BS1.
TNasty, half the problem was that you brought list optimised for Eternal War to a Maelstrom game. For Maelstrom, it's essential you need a ground force.
The other half is that your Malanthrope shouldn't have been killed Turn 1, it should have been inside the Bastion where it would have been safe.
Other than that, swarm of guys would have dealt with that pretty easily. Grav doesn't mean much against 6+ guys. Just kill the flamers and bolter guys and you'll be fine.
Automatically Appended Next Post: is just bad luck, i start with my flyrants on reserve then he decided to try shoting on my malanthrope cause he ignore cover with stalker ... then he make 7 wounds on him on 6+ and i fail 3 of these, the last wound go down for 3 shot of land speeder cause i make 1 ( yes i fail 2+ cover inside my bastion )
I m not losing lot of match but i like to be a pro of tyranids but i have some problem with list like these were i play full flyrants and bastion.I tought that was easy to play full flyrants but i have some problem so i think to ask a pro how to run this list.
i sow some competitive list from users of dakka and are all similar ( tournament list ithink ) so i try to play like you hehe. Sry for my doubts but is from november that i start play and usually i play for fun
He can't target the Malanthrope if it's inside the Bastion. Only the Bastion itself.
Av14 building ain't taking damage from anything in his list aside Melta if he's running it...but the only sources come from Bikes (which are all armed with Grav, which does nothing against buildings), Land Speeders and Attack Bikes which shouldn't be in Melta range. If they are in Melta range frequently, you can always deploy the Malanthrope behind it and block line of sight to it. It's not like he's running Barrage weapons.
Game #2, I went up against Eldar with 5x5 Scatterbikes, 3x3 Hornets and Inquisition allies.
Game #3, I went up against Abusepuppy, who won the TSHFT GT earlier this year. He played Space Marines Battle Company with Eldar allies (4x3 Scatterbikes).
So far I am 3-0 on Day #1 and in the top 4.
Tomorrow is going to be really, really tough. My Game #4 opponent will be Alan "Pajamapants" Barajmovich, a multiple-GT winner, member of Team USA ETC and the top player currently after Day #1, on Table #1. If I can beat him, then I think I have a good shot at winning another major GT with Tyranids!
Wish me luck guys, I'm gonna need it.
Ratius wrote: Are you worried if you null reserve with the big guys, the spores will be blown off the table if terrain isnt heavy and you might get tabled early?
I've never dabbled really with a reserve/null style Nid list. I think its very interesting.
Not really. Mucolids have Shroud and so if I place them in ruins, then I will have 5 guys with 2+ cover saves. They aren't going to all die at once.
And then my spore mines are a unit that I can easily hide to ensure that I don't get tabled.
BTW, the terrain at BAO is pretty top-notch. You can expect almost every table to have some type of LOS-blocking terrain and ruins symmetrically. Chances are really good that I will be able to count on decent terrain. Now that is what a good tournament should provide - good and fair terrain for all.
Ratius wrote: Are you worried if you null reserve with the big guys, the spores will be blown off the table if terrain isnt heavy and you might get tabled early?
I've never dabbled really with a reserve/null style Nid list. I think its very interesting.
It's not something you can rely on doing, more of if the opportunity and situation allows or requires it then you do it. If the table has no where to hide, you just wouldn't do it.
That's right, and if I have to, I will deploy 1 or even 2 mawlocs as well as flyrants if necessary. So if the opponent has, for example, 6 alpha-strike units, then I will deploy a total of 7 units (if terrain is bad) to ensure that at least 1 unit will survive.
Basically, deployment is very important but the Tyranids have what it takes to survive most alpha-strikes.
Well, regardless, good luck on the tournament Jim. I don't think the Hive Mind will be discouraged by your efforts. Who knows, maybe on the way home the 7th edition Tyranid codex will be release for preorder.
Thanks! And as long as I don't lose too badly my next 2 games, I think I will reach my goals. Tomorrow, I can potentially win the whole tournament if I get 2 more wins.
Hmm, good stuff! Glad to hear you're doing so well so far, and best of luck in your next game! It'd be great to see Nids bring home another GT win. By the way, are you bringing Nids or SM to the ATC this year?
Actually, something came up and I will no longer be going. As a matter of fact, our team disbanded.
Maybe next year.
Dozer Blades wrote: Great going Jim !!! Looks like some really stiff competition - I'm pulling for ya !
i lose realy bad he start the match and kill my malanthrope shooting with stalker .... yes he have some luck, then dimachaeron go down for the bikes and at the end of his fisrt turn he have 6 point ( we played maelstrom 2 )
Your list has what it takes to beat his. It's just a matter of practice and getting to know your opponent. Here are some suggestions:
1. Dimachaeron is not ideal in this matchup. He is just too slow to chase around bikers. If you want to run him, put him in a tyrannoctye spore and drop him where the stalkers are to threaten them. Otherwise, as soon as he ventures out of malanthrope range, he will get shot to death.
2. Malanthrope should be in the bastion for protection. You should never deploy him outside of it unless you are hiding him behind the bastion where the opponent can't see.
3. Flyrants are problematic for him. This gives the match slightly in your favor. Just make sure that when you deploy, put them in ruins and within malanthrope/bastion range for the 2+ cover (when the malanthrope is deployed in the bastion, the shroud bubble is actually measured from the bastion itself, thus giving the power a much larger footprint).
4. Maelstrom missions favor the army with the better ground force. Thus, your opponent will have a slight advantage there, at least initially. But as the match progresses and he starts losing units to your flyrants, the Maelstrom will swing slightly more in favor of your army. However, with pure Maelstrom, it is in the luck of the draw. If you draw the right objectives and he draws the wrong ones, you can easily dominate Maelstrom (and vice versa).
5. You can easily kill his stalkers if you've got egrubs on your flyrants. However, they are not as high a priority to kill as his bikers. Focus on his bike squads 1 unit at a time. Only go for the stalkers if it is convenient (i.e. if they happen to be in your flyrant's flight paths), but if there are bikers to kill, I recommend you go after them instead.
6. Mawlocs are better here against biker armies and IMO, the better overall Take-All-Comer's unit. I recommend - if you have the models - to swapping out the dima for a mawloc + change (maybe a lictor).
7. If you play pure Maelstrom, then I recommend you go for the 1st turn. If you are playing Eternal War missions, then opt to go 2nd. Either ways, I think your army should have the resiliency to survive his alpha-strike if you go 2nd.
Mainly, you just need to practice against his army. There is no magic bullet or auto-win strategy against marine bikers. It's just a matter of getting experience and then using that experience to formulate a strategy against them. Yes, you will lose some in the beginning, but your list has what it takes to beat biker marines.
Game #2, I went up against Eldar with 5x5 Scatterbikes, 3x3 Hornets and Inquisition allies.
Game #3, I went up against Abusepuppy, who won the TSHFT GT earlier this year. He played Space Marines Battle Company with Eldar allies (4x3 Scatterbikes).
So far I am 3-0 on Day #1 and in the top 4.
Tomorrow is going to be really, really tough. My Game #4 opponent will be Alan "Pajamapants" Barajmovich, a multiple-GT winner, member of Team USA ETC and the top player currently after Day #1, on Table #1. If I can beat him, then I think I have a good shot at winning another major GT with Tyranids!
Wish me luck guys, I'm gonna need it.
Ratius wrote: Are you worried if you null reserve with the big guys, the spores will be blown off the table if terrain isnt heavy and you might get tabled early?
I've never dabbled really with a reserve/null style Nid list. I think its very interesting.
Not really. Mucolids have Shroud and so if I place them in ruins, then I will have 5 guys with 2+ cover saves. They aren't going to all die at once.
And then my spore mines are a unit that I can easily hide to ensure that I don't get tabled.
BTW, the terrain at BAO is pretty top-notch. You can expect almost every table to have some type of LOS-blocking terrain and ruins symmetrically. Chances are really good that I will be able to count on decent terrain. Now that is what a good tournament should provide - good and fair terrain for all.
Ratius wrote: Are you worried if you null reserve with the big guys, the spores will be blown off the table if terrain isnt heavy and you might get tabled early?
I've never dabbled really with a reserve/null style Nid list. I think its very interesting.
It's not something you can rely on doing, more of if the opportunity and situation allows or requires it then you do it. If the table has no where to hide, you just wouldn't do it.
That's right, and if I have to, I will deploy 1 or even 2 mawlocs as well as flyrants if necessary. So if the opponent has, for example, 6 alpha-strike units, then I will deploy a total of 7 units (if terrain is bad) to ensure that at least 1 unit will survive.
Basically, deployment is very important but the Tyranids have what it takes to survive most alpha-strikes.
Well, regardless, good luck on the tournament Jim. I don't think the Hive Mind will be discouraged by your efforts. Who knows, maybe on the way home the 7th edition Tyranid codex will be release for preorder.
Thanks! And as long as I don't lose too badly my next 2 games, I think I will reach my goals. Tomorrow, I can potentially win the whole tournament if I get 2 more wins.
Hmm, good stuff! Glad to hear you're doing so well so far, and best of luck in your next game! It'd be great to see Nids bring home another GT win. By the way, are you bringing Nids or SM to the ATC this year?
Actually, something came up and I will no longer be going. As a matter of fact, our team disbanded.
Maybe next year.
Ah, this is quite a pity! But, I guess the road to best Nids just got slightly easier!
Game #2, I went up against Eldar with 5x5 Scatterbikes, 3x3 Hornets and Inquisition allies.
Game #3, I went up against Abusepuppy, who won the TSHFT GT earlier this year. He played Space Marines Battle Company with Eldar allies (4x3 Scatterbikes).
So far I am 3-0 on Day #1 and in the top 4.
Tomorrow is going to be really, really tough. My Game #4 opponent will be Alan "Pajamapants" Barajmovich, a multiple-GT winner, member of Team USA ETC and the top player currently after Day #1, on Table #1. If I can beat him, then I think I have a good shot at winning another major GT with Tyranids!
Wish me luck guys, I'm gonna need it.
Ratius wrote: Are you worried if you null reserve with the big guys, the spores will be blown off the table if terrain isnt heavy and you might get tabled early?
I've never dabbled really with a reserve/null style Nid list. I think its very interesting.
Not really. Mucolids have Shroud and so if I place them in ruins, then I will have 5 guys with 2+ cover saves. They aren't going to all die at once.
And then my spore mines are a unit that I can easily hide to ensure that I don't get tabled.
BTW, the terrain at BAO is pretty top-notch. You can expect almost every table to have some type of LOS-blocking terrain and ruins symmetrically. Chances are really good that I will be able to count on decent terrain. Now that is what a good tournament should provide - good and fair terrain for all.
Ratius wrote: Are you worried if you null reserve with the big guys, the spores will be blown off the table if terrain isnt heavy and you might get tabled early?
I've never dabbled really with a reserve/null style Nid list. I think its very interesting.
It's not something you can rely on doing, more of if the opportunity and situation allows or requires it then you do it. If the table has no where to hide, you just wouldn't do it.
That's right, and if I have to, I will deploy 1 or even 2 mawlocs as well as flyrants if necessary. So if the opponent has, for example, 6 alpha-strike units, then I will deploy a total of 7 units (if terrain is bad) to ensure that at least 1 unit will survive.
Basically, deployment is very important but the Tyranids have what it takes to survive most alpha-strikes.
Well, regardless, good luck on the tournament Jim. I don't think the Hive Mind will be discouraged by your efforts. Who knows, maybe on the way home the 7th edition Tyranid codex will be release for preorder.
Thanks! And as long as I don't lose too badly my next 2 games, I think I will reach my goals. Tomorrow, I can potentially win the whole tournament if I get 2 more wins.
Hmm, good stuff! Glad to hear you're doing so well so far, and best of luck in your next game! It'd be great to see Nids bring home another GT win. By the way, are you bringing Nids or SM to the ATC this year?
Actually, something came up and I will no longer be going. As a matter of fact, our team disbanded.
Maybe next year.
Ah, this is quite a pity! But, I guess the road to best Nids just got slightly easier!
Originally, I was planning on bringing the Centstar so I guess your chances of winning best Bugs remain the same.
All of this waiting on a second Tervigon (Two failed to arrive from ebay, plus no stores in the area have them except GW) has given me time to consider space fillers, and I'm pondering 4 Lictors to really make the list diverse. (This is my Nova tournament list)
Using CAD + Leviathan Detachment:
3x Flyrants with Devourers and electroshock
1x Superbeast Flyrant w/Reaper of Oblit, ScyTal, Regeneration, Adrenal Glands, Ymgarl Factor, Old Adversary, Electroshockgrubs
1x Malanthrope
1x Tervigon
30x Termagant
3x Biovores
4x Lictors
3x Mucolids
The Lictors have a lot of use in the Nova style missions, and they up my small unit count. No reserve manipulation lets them come in later to grab objectives per turn. Thoughts?
Iechine wrote: All of this waiting on a second Tervigon (Two failed to arrive from ebay, plus no stores in the area have them except GW) has given me time to consider space fillers, and I'm pondering 4 Lictors to really make the list diverse. (This is my Nova tournament list)
Using CAD + Leviathan Detachment:
3x Flyrants with Devourers and electroshock
1x Superbeast Flyrant w/Reaper of Oblit, ScyTal, Regeneration, Adrenal Glands, Ymgarl Factor, Old Adversary, Electroshockgrubs
1x Malanthrope
1x Tervigon
30x Termagant
3x Biovores
4x Lictors
3x Mucolids
The Lictors have a lot of use in the Nova style missions, and they up my small unit count. No reserve manipulation lets them come in later to grab objectives per turn. Thoughts?
This list is just crying out for a Tyrannofex in a Pod. It needs it. Granted, I think every list needs a Tyrannofex in a Pod... but I think dropping an Anvil on an objective will help guide in that Flyrant Hammer you have personally. With no Rippers in the list though, some DS scoring is certainly needed, which the Lictors do fill... Hm. I do like the list, but I also have had better results with TFexen than Lictors.
Yeah, I personally love the TFex as a unit that can drop on an objective and very likely will not be shot off of it, plus he can flame the chaff away. Multiple Lictors can honestly achieve a similar goal though, as can Rippers.
Iechine wrote: All of this waiting on a second Tervigon (Two failed to arrive from ebay, plus no stores in the area have them except GW) has given me time to consider space fillers, and I'm pondering 4 Lictors to really make the list diverse. (This is my Nova tournament list)
Using CAD + Leviathan Detachment:
3x Flyrants with Devourers and electroshock
1x Superbeast Flyrant w/Reaper of Oblit, ScyTal, Regeneration, Adrenal Glands, Ymgarl Factor, Old Adversary, Electroshockgrubs
1x Malanthrope
1x Tervigon
30x Termagant
3x Biovores
4x Lictors
3x Mucolids
The Lictors have a lot of use in the Nova style missions, and they up my small unit count. No reserve manipulation lets them come in later to grab objectives per turn. Thoughts?
I wonder if we will get a nice formation for tervigons. I think I have 5 or so with around 400 termagants and hormagaunts to use for something other than display purposes or a lesson in futility for trying to paint 'em all.
Unyielding Hunger wrote: I wonder if we will get a nice formation for tervigons. I think I have 5 or so with around 400 termagants and hormagaunts to use for something other than display purposes or a lesson in futility for trying to paint 'em all.
Here's a home-brewed formation that you might like. Enjoy.
TERVIGON SPAWNING PIT
The tervigons in this formation are genetically modified to spawn termagants at an accelerated rate for the Tyranid war machine. These units are the "spawning factories" of the Hive Mind and are designed to rapidly and more reliably produce minor Tyranid creatures in a relatively short amount of time.
FORMATION:
2-5 Tervigons
1 unit of Termagants per Tervigon
RESTRICTIONS:
Each unit of Termagants in the formation must consist of 20-30 models.
SPECIAL RULES:
Objective Secured: A unit with this special rule controls Objective Markers even if an enemy scoring unit is within range of the Objective Marker, unless the enemy unit also has this special rule.
Hyper Tervigons: Each tervigon in the formation may take 1 biomorph upgrade costing no more than 30-pts for free.
Spawning Pit: Any tervigon within 12" of another tervigon in the formation may re-roll 1 die when spawning termagants.
Yeah, you're probably right. I probably didn't add enough freebies to the formation. Knowing GW, they'll probably go something like this....for every tervigon you take, you can also take a flyrant for free or something like that.
jy2 wrote: Yeah, you're probably right. I probably didn't add enough freebies to the formation. Knowing GW, they'll probably go something like this....for every tervigon you take, you can also take a flyrant for free or something like that.
Hmm, sounds like it would be your next tournament list. But no. Tactically, tervigons are decent options, they just compete with things well above their weight. It seems to me that they need to bump it down to a simple troop choice, since the HQ section is dominated by our named characters as well as the standard tyrant, which makes sense. Reduce the tax to twenty and add in a decent point break while removing named options from their upgrade, and they would perhaps not be an autoinclude, but a good contender.
And no, the ultimate hilarity would not be free flyrants, but removing the wings as a option from a hive tyrant, and moving the winged option to the fast attack slot.
I just want the PoM back, as well as the removal of shrikes from fast attack in exchange for a wings option on the standard warrior and prime.
Dozer Blades wrote: I wonder when Nidz will get something new. They already got plenty of love recently.
At the rate GW is going, and with no more Fantasy on the horizon, I honestly wouldn't be surprised at all if Nids were to get an update before the end of the year. The only question is whether GW will continue to nerf them like they've traditionally done, or will Tyranids continue the trend of powerful armies that raises the bar with each new release.
I just hope in something that isn't Codex: Flyrants.
Also, if i'm allowed to dream i'd like to ask for the following:
3 Detachments
1 with lots of heavy slots and MC centered
1 with lots of elite and troops slots gribblies and warriors centered
1 with lots of FA to deploy a minefield/flyers detachment., Death from above style.
Spoletta wrote: I just hope in something that isn't Codex: Flyrants.
Also, if i'm allowed to dream i'd like to ask for the following:
3 Detachments
1 with lots of heavy slots and MC centered
I'm sure there will be some type of carnifex formation. What I'm hoping for is the formation where you take 3 trygons, they all come in on the same turn (i.e. just 1 die roll to bring in the entire formation) and they can assault on the turn they come in. That'll be really cool.
1 with lots of elite and troops slots gribblies and warriors centered
I'd be happy with an ObSec Endless Swarm formation! Or something similar to my tervigon formation above.
1 with lots of FA to deploy a minefield/flyers detachment., Death from above style.
What would be bad-a$$ would be an ObSec flyer formation who can score while in the air....but that's just wishful thinking.
Well Tau should be next but I heard they got pushed back now - not sure what's going to happen with SoB. There will probably be some more new supplements as well.
If and when Tyranids get a new codex I hope it's more balanced and doesn't have to heavily rely upon flying circus to be competitive. I'm all for a great codex.
'ello guys, I've got a bit of a debarkle.
I've never particpated in a tournament, but there's one coming up in the next few weeks.
An 800 point game with no formations or escalation.
I'm wondering if anyone can help me figure out what I should take out of the units I have.
A trygon.
A hive tyrant.
three tyrant guard.
Twenty termagants.
ten Hormagaunts.
Three ripper bases.
A carnifex.
A tyrannofex.
Apologies for the silly question, but I'd like y'all's opinion.
the shrouded lord wrote: 'ello guys, I've got a bit of a debarkle.
I've never particpated in a tournament, but there's one coming up in the next few weeks.
An 800 point game with no formations or escalation.
I'm wondering if anyone can help me figure out what I should take out of the units I have.
A trygon.
A hive tyrant.
three tyrant guard.
Twenty termagants.
ten Hormagaunts.
Three ripper bases.
A carnifex.
A tyrannofex.
Apologies for the silly question, but I'd like y'all's opinion.
If Tyrant has wings, I'd definitely take that, preferably with Devourers. Same with the carnifex, Devourers are nice. Other than that Rippers and Tyrannofex are big useful, I'd take 3x3 rippers and a TFex with Acid Spray and Electroshock grubs
the shrouded lord wrote: 'ello guys, I've got a bit of a debarkle.
I've never particpated in a tournament, but there's one coming up in the next few weeks.
An 800 point game with no formations or escalation.
I'm wondering if anyone can help me figure out what I should take out of the units I have.
A trygon.
A hive tyrant.
three tyrant guard.
Twenty termagants.
ten Hormagaunts.
Three ripper bases.
A carnifex.
A tyrannofex.
Apologies for the silly question, but I'd like y'all's opinion.
Ok, here is something that should work for you fairly well, provided you have your models geared correctly.
1 Hive Tyrant with Wings, 2 sets of Twin Linked Devoured with Brainleech Worms, Electroshock Grubs.
10 Termagants
3 Ripper Swarms with Deep Strike
1 Carnifex with 2 sets of Twin Linked Devoured with Brainleech Worms
1 Mawloc (proxy or head swap, the 2 are nearly identical)
1 Tyrannofex with Electroshock Grubs
guys i have a question, can a player start 1th turn without nothing in the table or he have to deploy something ? if someone start with all on reserv he lose automatically ?
Automatically Appended Next Post: sry if i ask all here but i like to talk with tyranids player haha
TNasty wrote: guys i have a question, can a player start 1th turn without nothing in the table or he have to deploy something ? if someone start with all on reserv he lose automatically ?
Automatically Appended Next Post: sry if i ask all here but i like to talk with tyranids player haha
Unless you have someone of bringing reserves in by the end of Turn 1 then no.
TNasty wrote: guys i have a question, can a player start 1th turn without nothing in the table or he have to deploy something ? if someone start with all on reserv he lose automatically ?
Automatically Appended Next Post: sry if i ask all here but i like to talk with tyranids player haha
First, you can't leave all on reserves, you have to deploy half your units and half on reserves at maximum (excluding the ones that must enter via DS or from reserves, like Tyrannocyte)
Second, you lose if you have nothing on the table, So if you end a turn with nothing on the table, you lose.
TNasty wrote: guys i have a question, can a player start 1th turn without nothing in the table or he have to deploy something ? if someone start with all on reserv he lose automatically ?
Automatically Appended Next Post: sry if i ask all here but i like to talk with tyranids player haha
First, you can't leave all on reserves, you have to deploy half your units and half on reserves at maximum (excluding the ones that must enter via DS or from reserves, like Tyrannocyte)
Second, you lose if you have nothing on the table, So if you end a turn with nothing on the table, you lose.
That was 6th edition. And its only ending a game turn now, not player turn.
TNasty wrote: guys i have a question, can a player start 1th turn without nothing in the table or he have to deploy something ? if someone start with all on reserv he lose automatically ?
Automatically Appended Next Post: sry if i ask all here but i like to talk with tyranids player haha
First, you can't leave all on reserves, you have to deploy half your units and half on reserves at maximum (excluding the ones that must enter via DS or from reserves, like Tyrannocyte)
Second, you lose if you have nothing on the table, So if you end a turn with nothing on the table, you lose.
That was 6th edition. And its only ending a game turn now, not player turn.
You mean the second part? I edited that... game turn isn't any player turn? I mean, your turn, your opponent's turn, both are player turns
TNasty wrote: guys i have a question, can a player start 1th turn without nothing in the table or he have to deploy something ? if someone start with all on reserv he lose automatically ?
Automatically Appended Next Post: sry if i ask all here but i like to talk with tyranids player haha
First, you can't leave all on reserves, you have to deploy half your units and half on reserves at maximum (excluding the ones that must enter via DS or from reserves, like Tyrannocyte)
Second, you lose if you have nothing on the table, So if you end a turn with nothing on the table, you lose.
That was 6th edition. And its only ending a game turn now, not player turn.
You mean the second part? I edited that... game turn isn't any player turn? I mean, your turn, your opponent's turn, both are player turns
A game turn is both your and yours opponent's turn. For example, your first turn and your opponent's first turn make the first game turn.
TNasty wrote: guys i have a question, can a player start 1th turn without nothing in the table or he have to deploy something ? if someone start with all on reserv he lose automatically ?
Automatically Appended Next Post: sry if i ask all here but i like to talk with tyranids player haha
First, you can't leave all on reserves, you have to deploy half your units and half on reserves at maximum (excluding the ones that must enter via DS or from reserves, like Tyrannocyte)
Second, you lose if you have nothing on the table, So if you end a turn with nothing on the table, you lose.
That was 6th edition. And its only ending a game turn now, not player turn.
You mean the second part? I edited that... game turn isn't any player turn? I mean, your turn, your opponent's turn, both are player turns
A game turn is both your and yours opponent's turn. For example, your first turn and your opponent's first turn make the first game turn.
Oh, Thank You !
So If I go 2nd, and my enemy kills everything on his 2nd turn, I have to roll for reserves on my 2nd turn (after his 2nd turn) and got some units enter from reserves, and I end my 2nd turn with units on the table, so the 2nd Game Turn I end it with units on the board and don't get tabled?
TNasty wrote: guys i have a question, can a player start 1th turn without nothing in the table or he have to deploy something ? if someone start with all on reserv he lose automatically ?
Automatically Appended Next Post: sry if i ask all here but i like to talk with tyranids player haha
First, you can't leave all on reserves, you have to deploy half your units and half on reserves at maximum (excluding the ones that must enter via DS or from reserves, like Tyrannocyte)
Second, you lose if you have nothing on the table, So if you end a turn with nothing on the table, you lose.
That was 6th edition. And its only ending a game turn now, not player turn.
You mean the second part? I edited that... game turn isn't any player turn? I mean, your turn, your opponent's turn, both are player turns
A game turn is both your and yours opponent's turn. For example, your first turn and your opponent's first turn make the first game turn.
Oh, Thank You !
So If I go 2nd, and my enemy kills everything on his 2nd turn, I have to roll for reserves on my 2nd turn (after his 2nd turn) and got some units enter from reserves, and I end my 2nd turn with units on the table, so the 2nd Game Turn I end it with units on the board and don't get tabled?
Correct.
And there is no longer any limits to how many models you can have in reserve.
TNasty wrote: guys i have a question, can a player start 1th turn without nothing in the table or he have to deploy something ? if someone start with all on reserv he lose automatically ?
Automatically Appended Next Post: sry if i ask all here but i like to talk with tyranids player haha
First, you can't leave all on reserves, you have to deploy half your units and half on reserves at maximum (excluding the ones that must enter via DS or from reserves, like Tyrannocyte)
Second, you lose if you have nothing on the table, So if you end a turn with nothing on the table, you lose.
That was 6th edition. And its only ending a game turn now, not player turn.
You mean the second part? I edited that... game turn isn't any player turn? I mean, your turn, your opponent's turn, both are player turns
A game turn is both your and yours opponent's turn. For example, your first turn and your opponent's first turn make the first game turn.
Oh, Thank You !
So If I go 2nd, and my enemy kills everything on his 2nd turn, I have to roll for reserves on my 2nd turn (after his 2nd turn) and got some units enter from reserves, and I end my 2nd turn with units on the table, so the 2nd Game Turn I end it with units on the board and don't get tabled?
Correct.
And there is no longer any limits to how many models you can have in reserve.
Oh, also true... thing was that some times I read the rules from Tyranid Codex 6th ed, (since I had that at hand) and I read it from there, forgot what I read from the 7th ed BRB.
Thank you for correcting that.
I ran my 70 stealer list against Daemonkin the other week. That was an absolute bloodbath, but I just managed to win the game turn 6 because of a unit of ObSec stealers
Eldercaveman wrote: I ran my 70 stealer list against Daemonkin the other week. That was an absolute bloodbath, but I just managed to win the game turn 6 because of a unit of ObSec stealers
Sweet, that must have looked spectacular on the table. Did you run formations or just a CAD?
dan2026 wrote: Can anyone sell me on the Tyranofex?
Like the model but on the table he seems like an expensive waste of time.
The Tyrannofex is, in my opinion, the best Heavy support we have. Combination of high toughness, wounds, and 2+ save makes him incredibly hard to kill, an absolute brick for under $2.00. He can take electroshock Grubs, the best 10 points in the game, as well as being able to get in a Tyrannocyte where he can easily double-flame any troops on an objective. At this point he is killing troops, in cover, in your opponents backfield and most likely won't die. Perfect for clearing off objectives and sitting on them, or claiming Linebreaker, or finishing off a Vehicle with his Grubs. I use one in every game now that the Tyrannocyte is back, and I'll tell you how he does at the ATC this weekend.
dan2026 wrote: Can anyone sell me on the Tyranofex?
Like the model but on the table he seems like an expensive waste of time.
The Tyrannofex is, in my opinion, the best Heavy support we have. Combination of high toughness, wounds, and 2+ save makes him incredibly hard to kill, an absolute brick for under $2.00. He can take electroshock Grubs, the best 10 points in the game, as well as being able to get in a Tyrannocyte where he can easily double-flame any troops on an objective. At this point he is killing troops, in cover, in your opponents backfield and most likely won't die. Perfect for clearing off objectives and sitting on them, or claiming Linebreaker, or finishing off a Vehicle with his Grubs. I use one in every game now that the Tyrannocyte is back, and I'll tell you how he does at the ATC this weekend.
Cool thanks.
Do you run him with Acid Spray or Fleshborer Hive?
I cant see the Rupture Cannon being worth it.
Edit: I see you say double template. That make sense.
I'm new, and curious about the weapons for the tyrannocyte, is it really worth paying for venom or stranglethorn cannons? Since it's BS 2 and instinctive fire, that could be a big scatter and end up anywhere, deathspitters they could be 25 shots on a 5+
What do you use with your Tyrannocyte?
A TFex with Egrubs and Acid Spray ignores all cover saves so for each hit with each of them (assuming you drop them in the same place) you average 0.75 wounds per model hit.
Against eldar or ravenwing you will kill 2.25 if you hit a full squad of 3 with both templates. We don't have anything else that can do that at range
Eldercaveman wrote: I ran my 70 stealer list against Daemonkin the other week. That was an absolute bloodbath, but I just managed to win the game turn 6 because of a unit of ObSec stealers
Sweet, that must have looked spectacular on the table. Did you run formations or just a CAD?
Yeah it's basically Leviathan, so 9 troop Genestealers, then the Manafactorum Stealers, 3 Flyrants, and a Malonthrope or Venomthrope.
Frozocrone wrote: None of your Genestealers would have had ObSec. ObSec only comes with the CAD or Skyblight
]#
Sorry that was a bit of a quick post fail, the original list used just Leviathan, but now some tournaments around here have begun allowing 3 sources it's evolved into this...
Sounds like a fun list to be honest. Not sure how many Stealers the opponent could kill before they get there, lol
Well on an table with a decent amount of cover, and ruins. Not a lot after infiltrating.
Everything goes to ground and then dominions go up.
Here's a little bit of advise for people running Tyranid CADs with Leviathan Detachment, as far as you can do it, any units that have the instinctive behaviour rule, take from the Leviathan Detachment, that re roll on the IB table can be hugely important. The only unit I wouldn't do this for is Rippers as their ObSec is more important.
Sup dudes, working on list for Nova. I'm currently at 1785 with
Dual CAD:
3x Flyrants w/devs and electro
1x Superbeast w/RoO, scytal, regeneration, adrenal glands, old adversary, ymgarl factor, electro shock
Tervigon w/electro
30 Gants
2 Mucolids
Malanthrope
3 individual Biovores
3 Lictors
But what to do with the remaining 65? Part of me wants to work in two more biovores, so I have 5 bombing each round (Necrons have me gunshy) I can add a fourth lictor, or a ton of sporemines. Ideas on how to approach it?
Iechine wrote: Sup dudes, working on list for Nova. I'm currently at 1785 with
Dual CAD:
3x Flyrants w/devs and electro
1x Superbeast w/RoO, scytal, regeneration, adrenal glands, old adversary, ymgarl factor, electro shock
Tervigon w/electro
30 Gants
2 Mucolids
Malanthrope
3 individual Biovores
3 Lictors
But what to do with the remaining 65? Part of me wants to work in two more biovores, so I have 5 bombing each round (Necrons have me gunshy) I can add a fourth lictor, or a ton of sporemines. Ideas on how to approach it?
Not too sure other than the primer. Plenty of per round scoring opportunities a la maelstrom, so the DS lictors serve a purpose (as would DS obsec rippers).
Also, check out the awesome box my wife just made me for my bugs to go to Nova.
Just a quick question, guys: can Nids make use of an Aegis Defence Line? Not necessarily any gun emplacement on it, but I'm more thinking of being able to claim the cover and to use a Comms Relay...
Going to a 1500 point tournament in a couple of weeks time, Eternal War missions, as many detachments as you like, no comp, it's all a bit insane, I'm taking this.
Eldercaveman wrote: Going to a 1500 point tournament in a couple of weeks time, Eternal War missions, as many detachments as you like, no comp, it's all a bit insane, I'm taking this.
Eldercaveman wrote: Going to a 1500 point tournament in a couple of weeks time, Eternal War missions, as many detachments as you like, no comp, it's all a bit insane, I'm taking this.
Eldercaveman wrote: It's for a GT warm up event. Honestly I was considering some of our super heavies, but since you can take 3 Wraithknights, there is very little point.
To be honest the main GT circuits this year is a bit of a joke with the new committee so I'm boycotting it anyway.
Yeah when you can get 2 WKs for 1.1 scythed hierodules there is a definite issue with cost effectiveness.
5 flyrants and a crone will be more effective and I may change my mind and run it instead, but I really like playing with the scythed one so far
Iechine wrote: Sup dudes, working on list for Nova. I'm currently at 1785 with
Dual CAD:
3x Flyrants w/devs and electro
1x Superbeast w/RoO, scytal, regeneration, adrenal glands, old adversary, ymgarl factor, electro shock
Tervigon w/electro
30 Gants
2 Mucolids
Malanthrope
3 individual Biovores
3 Lictors
But what to do with the remaining 65? Part of me wants to work in two more biovores, so I have 5 bombing each round (Necrons have me gunshy) I can add a fourth lictor, or a ton of sporemines. Ideas on how to approach it?
If you can get 25 more points from somewhere, I'd add a Sporefield formation, spores with infiltrate and the chance to come back after exploded or exploding (4+ like gants from endless swarm) is good, and fun... and disturbing. (3 x Mucolid spore clusters + 3 x Spore mines clusters) only 90 points. Spores exploding and Deep Striking the next turn, and again. I'm trying to run it next time with some friends.
EDIT: The guy below is right, just 25 more points. (edited that )
Iechine wrote: Sup dudes, working on list for Nova. I'm currently at 1785 with
Dual CAD:
3x Flyrants w/devs and electro
1x Superbeast w/RoO, scytal, regeneration, adrenal glands, old adversary, ymgarl factor, electro shock
Tervigon w/electro
30 Gants
2 Mucolids
Malanthrope
3 individual Biovores
3 Lictors
But what to do with the remaining 65? Part of me wants to work in two more biovores, so I have 5 bombing each round (Necrons have me gunshy) I can add a fourth lictor, or a ton of sporemines. Ideas on how to approach it?
If you can get 35 more points from somewhere, I'd add a Sporefield formation, spores with infiltrate and the chance to come back after exploded or exploding (4+) is good, and fun... and disturbing.
If you drop a lictor or a biovore, I second this idea for sporefield. Highly unlikely to be tabled if you just deploy the spores, force your opponent to not take the first blood mission in nova (any killed spore won't give up victory points, but will take away first blood), and 4+ to return is great. With your 65 points, all you need is actually 25 points to nab that sporefield.
Where did you get the impression that Nids didn't do well in the ATC? They weren't as dominant as Eldar but there were quite a few Nid lists that did very well.
Iechine wrote: Not too sure other than the primer. Plenty of per round scoring opportunities a la maelstrom, so the DS lictors serve a purpose (as would DS obsec rippers).
Also, check out the awesome box my wife just made me for my bugs to go to Nova.
I would say that not putting an army in the top 5 means nothing at all about how an army performed. After all, not a single one of the top 5 players was on a team that was in the top 10. 4 of the 5 best players were on teams that weren't even in the top half of the rankings... I'm going to go ahead and say that those results mean absolutely nothing. As much as I love the ATC format and event, it is not a good judge of army strength as who you play is so unreliable and can depend on matchups. The ATC is hardly a bad sign for Nids, quite a few good teams had Nid players in them. That is what matters, the ranking of the team, not of the player. There were Nid players on at least half of the top 10 teams, and while I agree they did not reach an Eldar level of productivity, they are certainly not bad. My personal measure on how good an army is would be how many of the top 10 teams included that army.
Question for everyone: Is the Swarmlord worth it still? I love the fluff and the ability of the Swarmlord to murder anything in close combat. But he seems like a lot of points that has to get to the target. Is hive guard wounds the way to go? Or drop him in a pod and make people shake in fear? Or just run more Flyrants?
I didn't mean to imply Tyranids are bad - obviously they are strong - the flying circus build is a solid counter to the current meta. I did go up against the top Space Wolf and it was rock solid... WolfStar has made a big comeback. Some players may have gotten a break here or there but in my mind definitely we can learn from the top armies such as uncomped eldar. I do think the meta is catching up and is getting better at countering flying circus style armies - for instance the top daemon armies tend to have a strong contingent of ground forces with less dependence on their FMCs.
I have been playing in the ITC tournaments lately and was wondering something.
Would ammo dumps be worth it with a Barbed and some hive guard? Getting re-rolls of 1's seams really good. With a ADL you get a easy 2+ cover and re-rolls. Seams good to me. With a large unit of gaunts with some devourers mixed seam like a good option as well.
To get rerolls you had to take the swarmlord before and he gave it to only one unit. this seams to open up some points and allows for some solid back filed shooting
shadowfinder wrote: I have been playing in the ITC tournaments lately and was wondering something.
Would ammo dumps be worth it with a Barbed and some hive guard? Getting re-rolls of 1's seams really good. With a ADL you get a easy 2+ cover and re-rolls. Seams good to me. With a large unit of gaunts with some devourers mixed seam like a good option as well.
To get rerolls you had to take the swarmlord before and he gave it to only one unit. this seams to open up some points and allows for some solid back filed shooting
Any thoughts on this?
I ran one with a Barbie and Exocrine in a few ITC RTTs. It was good, however, I found that most of the time I wanted to advance with the Heirodule, and that made it not as great. Also, ever since I got My Barbie 1st blooded via D-Slap twice at LVO, I've been only running him with a VSG.
Eldercaveman wrote: Going to a 1500 point tournament in a couple of weeks time, Eternal War missions, as many detachments as you like, no comp, it's all a bit insane, I'm taking this.
I am attending the Brighton one, the list I am practicing with is;
Leviathan Detachment
Flyrant, egrubs x 3
Mucolid spore x 3
Venomthrope
Hive Crone
Scythed hierodule
I am also considering the 5 flyrant list (drop the hierodule for a CAD with 2 spores, 2 flyrants) but think I prefer using the hierodule!
It's for a GT warm up event. Honestly I was considering some of our super heavies, but since you can take 3 Wraithknights, there is very little point.
To be honest the main GT circuits this year is a bit of a joke with the new committee so I'm boycotting it anyway.
I'm thinking of going to the GT here this year, but it's actually proving really hard to write a list... With 2 KP missions and one Maelstrom, it's really tricky to find a balance between firepower and actually being able to take objectives... Which is where I think the Flyrant-heavy lists fall down, unfortunately...
Am waiting on hearing if they allow Void Shields to confer to a unit before I decide whether a ground force is viable or not - otherwise I might end up going for a null deployment type list.
Frozocrone wrote: Just had a flick through the top five Nid player's lists at ATC.
24 Flyrants between them lol. That's almost 5 per person (and exactly how it was run too, lol).
Interesting to see Corpsethief Claw mixed with 3 Flyrants from the 6th placed nid player tbh.
Mine was the one with "only" 4 Flyrants. There admittedly was a lot of repetition in the lists there, while what filled out the rest of the points did change a lot admittedly. For those interested, the top list was:
5 Flyrants
2 Crones with stinger salvo
Harpy with VC 2 Rippers
3 Mucolids
Venomthrope
I am a returning Champ in this tournament. I would like to do a repeat performance . Since this tourney there has been some big changes in elder and Crons.
The tournament format mission are found here.
www.40kambassadors.com/index.php
If you live in the area it is a great tournament and lot of fun. Please join in the fun.
Here is the list I won with last year. Its not the normal list but it worked well. Had a great game vs westrider and I hope he is playing this year as well. He played Space wolves last time but I have no Idea what he will run this year.
Frozocrone wrote: Just had a flick through the top five Nid player's lists at ATC.
24 Flyrants between them lol. That's almost 5 per person (and exactly how it was run too, lol).
Interesting to see Corpsethief Claw mixed with 3 Flyrants from the 6th placed nid player tbh.
Mine was the one with "only" 4 Flyrants. There admittedly was a lot of repetition in the lists there, while what filled out the rest of the points did change a lot admittedly. For those interested, the top list was:
5 Flyrants
2 Crones with stinger salvo
Harpy with VC 2 Rippers
3 Mucolids
Venomthrope
It's interesting to see how the meta has "evolved".
Last year, I felt that a Pentyrant build was OP.
This year, I feel that you almost have to bring 4-5 flyrants just to compete with all the new stuff/armies coming out. It isn't OP by any means any more. It has become almost a requirement to spam flyrants just to remain competitive with the top armies. That just goes to show how rapidly the meta is changing.
Dozer Blades wrote: It seems like eldar are starting to finally eclipse the flying circus now. If the multiple WK build becomes a thing then I think it could be over.
I don't expect multiple WK to be a thing except in a very specific subset of the east coast. The self identified "Deathstar Alley". I think most tourneys will do 0-1 LOW.
That's why I've only take two in most lists that I build these days and still try to be competitive, I feel it makes me better as a general if I'm not spamming Flyrants.
For those that play the ITC they have a new poll up.
Their is a question that applies to us.They are looking at reversing the rule on the Pods guns only being 45% for shooting. To allowing to using RAW instead.
Their are other changes as well. If you play please vote. And vote pro POD as well LOL
I voted, but I don't normally play ITC. My gaming group is strictly pro-RAW so I have to live with all the destroyer weapons, Invisibility, the works lol.
Going the TAC route, and will probably playing my Nova missions for turn by turn scoring when able. Infilitrating the stealers and maybe lictors, otherwise DS'ing them when they become available for objectiving claiming. Plus I enjoy the extra obsec. I dont have to worry about countering Wraithknights or Knights, so they have their uses.
Thats my idea anyway. Hopefully its a fun list to play with and against.
Dozer Blades wrote: At the local level no one wants to play against five flyrants. It's a d*ck list.
There are many d*ck lists. Ravenwing, Firebase Cadre, multiple Imperial Knights, Centstar, Scatterbike Eldar, Decurion, Battle Company, FMC-Daemons, Daemon summoning, War Convocation....basically any top tournament build would be considered a "d*ck list" at the local level. But you bring them to a GT and they would be considered the norm.
Moral of the story? Don't bring a Formula 1 race car to a local race, but if you bring it to Nascar, then you're ok.
Iechine wrote: So I've decided on my Nova list the only way I knew how: I bought something and refuse to spend any more money.
And its...Genestealers!
3x Flyrants w/devs and electro
1x Superbeast w/RoO, scytal adrenal glands, old adversary, ymgarl factor, electro shock
Going the TAC route, and will probably playing my Nova missions for turn by turn scoring when able. Infilitrating the stealers and maybe lictors, otherwise DS'ing them when they become available for objectiving claiming. Plus I enjoy the extra obsec. I dont have to worry about countering Wraithknights or Knights, so they have their uses.
Thats my idea anyway. Hopefully its a fun list to play with and against.
Good luck! I won't be bringing my bugs to Nova because that would be too much stuff to bring on the plane with me (and after the tournament, I've going on vaca directly so will have to take my army with me).
BTW, the list looks good. Just make sure to put your objectives in some ruins.
Here is a list I am going to start testing. And the 4 missions for the tournament at the bottom. Would love some feed back on this list vs. the missions.
This list will depend on the ruling for the Tyrannocyte from the organizer.
If ruled raw that is a lot of templates hitting where I want most of the time.
The goal is to win the first round. Endless I get a bye for being the winner last year. Will have to see if we have even numbers.
the List can null deploy if needed. Start almost everything on the table. I was thinking of putting another venom so I can split my forces to go after both ternary objectives in the second mission at the same time but I felt that was a little greedy.
1 Question I did have was could you but shrikes in to a Tyrannocyte?? I think you can, Just wanting to make sure.
Carnifex Brood
··Carnifex [Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms]
Carnifex Brood
··Carnifex [Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms]
++ Fortifications and Stronghold Assault (2013) (Fortification Detachment) ++
+ Fortification +
Aegis Defense Line [Comms Relay]
++ Tyranids: Codex (2014) (Allied Detachment) ++
+ HQ +
Hive Tyrant [Electroshock Grubs, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms, Wings]
+ Elites +
Lictor Brood [Lictor]
+ Troops +
Mucolid Spore Cluster [Mucolid Spore]
The spoiler is a 4 mission pack it is a little long. You can look at the pact here with picture. Just clink on the tabs to see the different mission.
Spoiler:
The missions Scoring.
Each Primary Objective you claim is worth 9 Battle Points (BP).
Each Secondary Objective is worth 6 BP. Secondary Objectives will be announced after 30 minutes of play.
Tertiary Objectives are worth 3 BP. Tertiary Objects are as follows: Line Breaker, Slay the Warlord and First Blood.
Every mission will have these objectives. At the end of the mission time, Ambassadors with the most Battle Points are declared the victor of the mission. There are no ties. Numerous tie breakers will be in place for all missions to ensure only one victor. A judge will decide if tie breakers fail.
Mission one== Blitzkrieg
Modified TSHIFT mission
You must attack and detonate the buried communication equipment of the enemy to disrupt their ability to organize. Unfortunately the enemy had the same thought about you. Only the quickest forces will hope to accomplish all they must to both protect their own equipment while damaging the enemy's.
Setup
1.Roll for Night Fighting, and determine Psychic Powers, Warlord Traits and pre-game special abilities as normal.
2.Roll off. Winner chooses his deployment zone and deploys his Fortifications, followed by his opponent.
3.In order of deployment, each player places all 3 of his objective markers at once in the enemy deployment zone, but not within 8" of each other nor the center of the board. They are considered impassible terrain and do not block line of sight.
4.Roll off again. The winner Deploys first and will have the choice to go first or second as normal after Infiltrators and Scouts have moved.
5.Deploy Infiltrators and make any scout moves.
6.The enemy may try to seize the initiative.
Objectives
Primary objective: Each of the markers you placed in the enemy zone count as a primary objective if you hold them uncontested with a scoring unit at the end of the game.
Tertiary Objectives: Be contesting objectives in your own deployment zone at the end of the game. Each one contested like this counts as a tertiary objective.
Tie Breaker 1:The Ambassador with the most scoring units in their enemy’s deployment zone.
Mission 2== Super Eclipse
The Ion storm is closing in as the four moons move past each other in rapid succession, bringing intermittent darkness and unexpected blinding light plus chill temperatures and gravity disruptions. Getting a base set up is of critical importance. Capturing the lightning towers so that they can provide power for the underground complex you've discovered is the only way to do it in time.
Setup
Dawn of War Deployment, with 3 total objectives.
1.Night Fighting is in automatically effect in turns 2 and 5 instead of rolling.
2.Determine Psychic Powers, Warlord Traits and pre-game special abilities as normal.
3.Roll off. Winner chooses his deployment zone and deploys his Fortifications, followed by his opponent.
4.Place one objective in the center of the board
5.In order of deployment, place two more objective markers within 6" of the center line, and not within 12" of each other. They are considered impassible terrain and do not block line of sight.
6.Roll off again. The winner Deploys first and will have the choice to go first or second as normal after Infiltrators and Scouts have moved.
7.Deploy Infiltrators and make any scout moves.
8.The enemy may try to seize the initiative.
Special rules
Lightning Towers: The Primary Objectives attract lightning to harness their power. The player whose turn it is rolls randomly to see which tower gets hit in every player turn BEFORE any movement has begun but after reserves have entered the game. On a 1-2 the left tower is hit. 3-4, the center tower and 5-6 the right tower (like outflanking, it is always relative to the person rolling). Any vehicle within 6" of the tower being hit is Shaken and no war gear nor special rule/ability can negate this. Any non-vehicle unit within 6" suffers the effects of the Blind special rule (test as normal) until the end of their next turn, as their eyes and nerves readjust from the shock wave.Eclipse:Night Fight rules are in effect turns 2 and 5. This represents the moons rotating in and out of eclipse.
Objectives
Primary Objectives: Controlling the center objective uncontested with a scoring unit at the end of the game.
Tertiary objectives: Controlling any other objective uncontested until the beginning of your next turn. There is no limit to the points you may earn doing this.
Tie Breaker 1:The Ambassador that controlled a tertiary objective first.
Tie Breaker 2:The Ambassador with the most scoring units ENTIRELY within 12" of the center objective.
Mission 3== Secure the Escape Tarmac and Break their Force Cohesiveness
The storm has passed and the base is secure and powered up. Within the alien confines you have discovered a massive inventory of genome information and enormous stores of samples from a race you have not yet devoured/met/collected teeth from before. Now that the storm has passed it is important that your fleets be notified and landing areas be cleared for their arrival to lift you off planet again. Of course there is still the matter of the opposing forces who are finding equally interesting alien tech and there are very few places safe enough for landings. Your sensors have detected interlopers attempting to claim the landing zone mid day when the sun is blasting the planets surface, in hopes of facing less resistance from you. Do not allow them to escape with their own finds. Wipe them out, penetrate their lines, and cripple their combat effectiveness by targeting specific force elements to weaken the whole.
Setup
No Man's Land deployment:
1.Roll for Night Fighting, and determine Psychic Powers, Warlord Traits and pre-game special abilities as normal.
2.Roll off. Winner chooses his deployment zone and deploys his Fortifications, followed by his opponent.
3.Roll off again. The winner Deploys first.
4.In order of deployment, each player alternates placing their units. Declaring a unit is in reserve is considered deploying for this purpose.
5.Deploy Infiltrators and make any scout moves.
6.The player who deploys first will have the choice to go first or second as normal after Infiltrators and Scouts have been completed.
7.The enemy may try to seize the initiative.
Special Rules
No Mans Land: The suns rays blast the No mans Land and nightfall smooth's and cools it making it the perfect tarmac, The eclipses are causing gravity wells here that lighten everything as well.
All vehicles that can both start and end their movement in the No Mans Land without passing through other terrain of any kind may opt to add 6" to their movement. Despite this, all normal penalties apply to moving and this may cause you to go over cruising speed with the usual penalties and benefits of doing so. Unfortunately the sun is directly overhead and while infantry can nimbly avoid the occasional pockets of molten rock that form here and there, the tanks are not so fortunate at those speeds. If vehicles choose to go faster than normally allowed, they become immobilized after moving the first 6" on a roll of a 5+, as engine fans inadvertently suck up molten particles, or treads are melted by puddles of it.
Objectives
Primary Objectives: Removing all units with a given Battlefield Role is the primary objective. If you end the game and your enemy has no units in a particular Battlefield Role left on the table, you receive credit for achieving 1 Primary Objective. So for example, if the enemy ended the game with no Heavy Support choices, you achieved a Primary Objective (9 points). If they also have nothing with the Fast Attack Battlefield role on the board, that's another Primary Objective achieved, and so on. For purposes of this objective, Dedicated Transports and/or their Drones do not count as any type of Battlefield Role; therefore if all the enemy Troops Choices are dead, but their dedicated transports are still alive for example, you have still achieved a Primary Objective. If you do not include a Lord of War Battlefield Role unit in your army, ending the game without one does not grant the enemy a Primary Objective (but all other slots do, so make sure you have used every slot at least once!). If you do bring a Lord of War unit, and it is destroyed, it does grant the enemy a Primary Objective.
Tertiary Objectives: Each scoring unit that ends the game in the No Mans Land and is not falling back is a tertiary objective. Pinned units can still claim this.
Tie Breaker 1:Army with the most remaining Force organization chart types at or above half strength.
Mission 4 == Evacuation: The Battle for Armed Supremacy
The Landing Platform is secure and now the ships can land. The ground forces are in a state of disarray as bombardments have fragmented them badly. Enemy fleets have darkened the skies and a conflict rages above you. To keep you from escaping, your fellow Ambassadors have begun their purging protocols. It would be best if you hurried. Most of the enemy’s have not managed to get anything to the planet through the miasma of missile and gun fire...save one other faction. You must take the Landing pods by force to return to your ship with your valuable cargo. The enemy has no intention of letting you.
Setup
Diagonal Deployment, 3 objectives:
1.Roll off. Winner places objectives first. Alternate placing three total objectives anywhere that is more than 12" from a board edge and more than 12" from another objective. These are called Delta Objectives.
2.Roll Off. The winner chooses which opposing corner he wishes to deploy in, as indicated on the diagram. This defines the deployment zones. Starting with the winner of this roll, each player places one objective in their own deployment zones (Called Alpha Objectives).
3.Roll to see who deploys first and therefore goes first.
4.After all infiltrators are placed as normal and the scout moves completed, the opposing player may try to seize the initiative if he wishes.
Objectives
Primary Objective: Taking the most Alpha Objectives uncontested is a primary objective. Separately, taking the most Delta Objectives uncontested is a Primary objective. In addition, having the most Kill Points is a Primary objective.
Tertiary objectives: Controlling the Alpha objective in the enemy deployment zone with a scoring unit(s) at the beginning of your player turn is a tertiary objective. This may be accomplished on multiple turns, but only once per turn. In addition, killing at least one enemy HQ is a tertiary objective.
Tie Breaker 1:The Ambassador with the most Scoring units remaining at or above half strength on the board at the end of the game.
Lists are pre-submitted so no changing that, missions are Eternal War
Other than drop the Skyray first, anybody have any thoughts what I should do against the list?
You had better hope you get second turn and decent terrain if it's eternal war. A Bastion may have been more important then then spamming that 5th flyrant.
Lists are pre-submitted so no changing that, missions are Eternal War
Other than drop the Skyray first, anybody have any thoughts what I should do against the list?
paroxysm on the skyray is your friend, scream the riptides, mawloc centered over shadowsun, Egrubs on 2+ cover bomb can be better than devourers in some cases. Think you have a solid matchup.
Lists are pre-submitted so no changing that, missions are Eternal War
Other than drop the Skyray first, anybody have any thoughts what I should do against the list?
You had better hope you get second turn and decent terrain if it's eternal war. A Bastion may have been more important then then spamming that 5th flyrant.
Yeah maybe from a more TAC point of view but I kind of wanted to show how ridiculous this years GT pack is, my team mate is taking 3 Wraithknights at 1500.
997Turbo wrote:
Eldercaveman wrote: Going to a 1500 point GT warm up tournament this weekend, my first round match up is against this..
Lists are pre-submitted so no changing that, missions are Eternal War
Other than drop the Skyray first, anybody have any thoughts what I should do against the list?
paroxysm on the skyray is your friend, scream the riptides, mawloc centered over shadowsun, Egrubs on 2+ cover bomb can be better than devourers in some cases. Think you have a solid matchup.
Solid advise
What does bringing down Shadowsun do to the unit? I'm so unfamiliar with non-broadside spam Tau!
What does bringing down Shadowsun do to the unit? I'm so unfamiliar with non-broadside spam Tau!
Hey man, hope you're doing good. Shadowsun gives stealth and shrouded to the whole squad so definitely drop that guy with a Mawloc as soon as you can but for sure, drop the skyray too. once thats done you should have a good shot at taking the game. Good luck!
Lists are pre-submitted so no changing that, missions are Eternal War
Other than drop the Skyray first, anybody have any thoughts what I should do against the list?
paroxysm on the skyray is your friend, scream the riptides, mawloc centered over shadowsun, Egrubs on 2+ cover bomb can be better than devourers in some cases. Think you have a solid matchup.
Good advice overall. Just 1 change:
Mawloc centered on "buff" suit. He's not a character and so cannot LOS the wounds. If you can kill him, then the game becomes much, much easier.
Some other advice:
1. Unless playing VP's, you'd want to go 2nd obviously.
2. Objective placement - don't place them in or near ruins. He's ignoring your cover anyways and his bomb will be getting 2+ cover in them. Kroots can also g-t-g for 3+ cover. Cover in this instance benefits his army more than it benefits yours.
3. Psychic powers will be your friend here, especially Paroxysm. I've also put Horror into good use here, pinning riptides and broadsides (and even the bomb!) before in my games. Scream actually hasn't done much for me against Tau.
4. Use egrubs to clear out any drones and massed firepower will eventually wear out the suits over time.
Yeah that's true JY2, buffsuit is also a good shout even if shadowsun is T3. Maybe the guy will goof and place them next to each other. Try and place the template so it hits those two first, that way you'll be laughing.
FYI, you can't pin monstrous ( ala riptides) creatures so I wouldn't use the horror on them!
FYI, you can't pin monstrous ( ala riptides) creatures so I wouldn't use the horror on them!
Yes you can.
The restriction that you are thinking about is you can't pin Fearless units. The riptide is not fearless. Thus he can be pinned, he can go-to-ground, he can fall back when he loses combat and he can be swept as well.
FYI, you can't pin monstrous ( ala riptides) creatures so I wouldn't use the horror on them!
Yes you can.
The restriction that you are thinking about is you can't pin Fearless units. The riptide is not fearless. Thus he can be pinned, he can go-to-ground, he can fall back when he loses combat and he can be swept as well.
Not in 7TH
"Monstrous Creatures can fire up to two of their weapons each Shooting phase – they
must, of course, fire both at the same target. They may never Go to Ground, voluntarily or
otherwise."
Lists are pre-submitted so no changing that, missions are Eternal War
Other than drop the Skyray first, anybody have any thoughts what I should do against the list?
paroxysm on the skyray is your friend, scream the riptides, mawloc centered over shadowsun, Egrubs on 2+ cover bomb can be better than devourers in some cases. Think you have a solid matchup.
Good advice overall. Just 1 change:
Mawloc centered on "buff" suit. He's not a character and so cannot LOS the wounds. If you can kill him, then the game becomes much, much easier.
Some other advice:
1. Unless playing VP's, you'd want to go 2nd obviously.
2. Objective placement - don't place them in or near ruins. He's ignoring your cover anyways and his bomb will be getting 2+ cover in them. Kroots can also g-t-g for 3+ cover. Cover in this instance benefits his army more than it benefits yours.
3. Psychic powers will be your friend here, especially Paroxysm. I've also put Horror into good use here, pinning riptides and broadsides (and even the bomb!) before in my games. Scream actually hasn't done much for me against Tau.
4. Use egrubs to clear out any drones and massed firepower will eventually wear out the suits over time.
Does the bomb have ignores cover by itself, or does it require Marker lights to do that? Because outside of the single Skyray, it has no marker lights.
FYI, you can't pin monstrous ( ala riptides) creatures so I wouldn't use the horror on them!
Yes you can.
The restriction that you are thinking about is you can't pin Fearless units. The riptide is not fearless. Thus he can be pinned, he can go-to-ground, he can fall back when he loses combat and he can be swept as well.
Not in 7TH
"Monstrous Creatures can fire up to two of their weapons each Shooting phase – they
must, of course, fire both at the same target. They may never Go to Ground, voluntarily or
otherwise."
Well, ok.
Thanks for the clarification. Good to know. I guess my mind was still stuck on 6th (which was the last time I played against Tau with my bugs). Lol.
Lists are pre-submitted so no changing that, missions are Eternal War
Other than drop the Skyray first, anybody have any thoughts what I should do against the list?
paroxysm on the skyray is your friend, scream the riptides, mawloc centered over shadowsun, Egrubs on 2+ cover bomb can be better than devourers in some cases. Think you have a solid matchup.
Good advice overall. Just 1 change:
Mawloc centered on "buff" suit. He's not a character and so cannot LOS the wounds. If you can kill him, then the game becomes much, much easier.
Some other advice:
1. Unless playing VP's, you'd want to go 2nd obviously.
2. Objective placement - don't place them in or near ruins. He's ignoring your cover anyways and his bomb will be getting 2+ cover in them. Kroots can also g-t-g for 3+ cover. Cover in this instance benefits his army more than it benefits yours.
3. Psychic powers will be your friend here, especially Paroxysm. I've also put Horror into good use here, pinning riptides and broadsides (and even the bomb!) before in my games. Scream actually hasn't done much for me against Tau.
4. Use egrubs to clear out any drones and massed firepower will eventually wear out the suits over time.
Does the bomb have ignores cover by itself, or does it require Marker lights to do that? Because outside of the single Skyray, it has no marker lights.
Yes, it is the "buff" suit which gives them them ability to ignore cover (as well as twin-linking and Monster Hunter or Stubborn). He is the glue that makes the unit deadly and he should be the highest priority target in the army.
At least he can't Look-Out-Sir because he is not a character (your opponent didn't put the wargear on an IC), so if you can force him to take wounds, you can kill him.
FYI, you can't pin monstrous ( ala riptides) creatures so I wouldn't use the horror on them!
Yes you can.
The restriction that you are thinking about is you can't pin Fearless units. The riptide is not fearless. Thus he can be pinned, he can go-to-ground, he can fall back when he loses combat and he can be swept as well.
Not in 7TH
"Monstrous Creatures can fire up to two of their weapons each Shooting phase – they
must, of course, fire both at the same target. They may never Go to Ground, voluntarily or
otherwise."
Well, ok.
Thanks for the clarification. Good to know. I guess my mind was still stuck on 6th (which was the last time I played against Tau with my bugs). Lol.
Lists are pre-submitted so no changing that, missions are Eternal War
Other than drop the Skyray first, anybody have any thoughts what I should do against the list?
paroxysm on the skyray is your friend, scream the riptides, mawloc centered over shadowsun, Egrubs on 2+ cover bomb can be better than devourers in some cases. Think you have a solid matchup.
Good advice overall. Just 1 change:
Mawloc centered on "buff" suit. He's not a character and so cannot LOS the wounds. If you can kill him, then the game becomes much, much easier.
Some other advice:
1. Unless playing VP's, you'd want to go 2nd obviously.
2. Objective placement - don't place them in or near ruins. He's ignoring your cover anyways and his bomb will be getting 2+ cover in them. Kroots can also g-t-g for 3+ cover. Cover in this instance benefits his army more than it benefits yours.
3. Psychic powers will be your friend here, especially Paroxysm. I've also put Horror into good use here, pinning riptides and broadsides (and even the bomb!) before in my games. Scream actually hasn't done much for me against Tau.
4. Use egrubs to clear out any drones and massed firepower will eventually wear out the suits over time.
Does the bomb have ignores cover by itself, or does it require Marker lights to do that? Because outside of the single Skyray, it has no marker lights.
Yes, it is the "buff" suit which gives them them ability to ignore cover (as well as twin-linking and Monster Hunter or Stubborn). He is the glue that makes the unit deadly and he should be the highest priority target in the army.
At least he can't Look-Out-Sir because he is not a character (your opponent didn't put the wargear on an IC), so if you can force him to take wounds, you can kill him.
Awesome so at least I have a decent POA now, Tau unnerve me so much. I could table his whole army and then his Riptides will still win it for him just by not dieing. It's what usually happens!
Wilson wrote: Yeah that's true JY2, buffsuit is also a good shout even if shadowsun is T3. Maybe the guy will goof and place them next to each other. Try and place the template so it hits those two first, that way you'll be laughing.
FYI, you can't pin monstrous ( ala riptides) creatures so I wouldn't use the horror on them!
Farsight's Body Guard has the "Sworn Protector" special rule. As long as a unit has a single model with this special rule, characters in the unit automatically passes LOS. So Shadow Sun will likely be the last model standing. Best to center on the non-IC Buff Suit or if that is already dead try to maximize the number of models under the template.
Shadowsun should be pretty easy to deal with, particulary if he's Deep Striking the Bomb. Since the FAQ non-infiltrators can't join infiltrators, regardless of who has the special rule.
Frozocrone wrote: Shadowsun should be pretty easy to deal with, particulary if he's Deep Striking the Bomb. Since the FAQ non-infiltrators can't join infiltrators, regardless of who has the special rule.
Only when infiltrating though, so I don't need to worry to much about the alpha strike just deploy far enough back to stay out of range. He could still pull it off with master of ambush but even then I'll just deploy my spores on the deployment line to push him back.
Frozocrone wrote: Shadowsun should be pretty easy to deal with, particulary if he's Deep Striking the Bomb. Since the FAQ non-infiltrators can't join infiltrators, regardless of who has the special rule.
You can put Shadowsun with the bomb in reserves. You just can't deploy her on the table with the bomb, but she can still join them if all are in reserves.
gigasnail wrote: ITC ruling, pods are back to firing RAW and so may be useful for more than an overpriced taxi.
Also no more same faction allied detachments, but, can take duplicate detachments so CAD/CAD, double skybilght, double leviathan, etc are in.
I'm telling you guys now. I DON'T recommend running more than 5 flyrants unless playing pure Eternal War missions. Any type of missions with a Maelstrom component in it and your army will be to imbalanced.
So with the Changes to ITC its time to take a look at new ways to run Nids competitively. The meta is going to shift, and lists with a chance to win are going to be tailored to the missions in an even more extreme way.
The 1st obvious idea is double Skyblight. That gives you 6 fast scoring OS units of Gargoyles that come back when killed, the ability to rule the skies, and a good selection of sacrificial objective jumpers. The only problem is situations where you have to Null Deploy. If we could ally in it would be no problem, but without CtA it probably means either Deathleaper or a sporefield. I like the sporefield more because it is cheaper, and you can upgrade all of the harpies with HVC, and then have another 50 points to play with.
The second thought is what I'm calling "Pineapple Express" (Because I use converted pinapples as Tcytes). The idea here is lots of TCyting Dakkafexes, Upgrade the Tycytes to VC's. It is a metabuster list, not really a TAC. There are certain matchups that can just punk you. It does well against Marine Drop pod spam, and pretty good against Scat Bike spam, just can't deal with Wraith Knights. To make this list work, you must have a Comms Relay. Its not really a winning list, but seems like it would be fun. The overcosted nature of the Tyrannocyte especially when compared to free drop pods is just too much to fully overcome.
Do any of you guys have thoughts on the best way to deal with Drop Pod spam in the current meta. I keep playing against battle company, and I keep killing all of the marines, but the OS drop pods tend to win the game if they are played right. I just can't kill enough of them. A recent game of ITC's version of the Relic involved 6 drop pods all being dropped in range of the Relic surrounding it on all sides. So I had to basically kill 2 before I could even get to the Relic. He won Maelstrom by a million, and I ended up contesting the relic, but couldn't score it.
Im thinking of going to a tourney laster in the year and came up with this Stealer rush list.
Could you guys help to maximise it? I'd love to take 4 Mawlocs but only have two Im afraid. I dont have any extra HTs either. It leaves me with about 300 points to spend.
I've maxed my Genestealer models too.
Do you think it has a chance, its mainly for fun but the Irish scene is quite competitive. However I'd like to not get tabled every game thanks!
Frozocrone wrote: Shadowsun should be pretty easy to deal with, particulary if he's Deep Striking the Bomb. Since the FAQ non-infiltrators can't join infiltrators, regardless of who has the special rule.
You can put Shadowsun with the bomb in reserves. You just can't deploy her on the table with the bomb, but she can still join them if all are in reserves.
gigasnail wrote: ITC ruling, pods are back to firing RAW and so may be useful for more than an overpriced taxi.
Also no more same faction allied detachments, but, can take duplicate detachments so CAD/CAD, double skybilght, double leviathan, etc are in.
I'm telling you guys now. I DON'T recommend running more than 5 flyrants unless playing pure Eternal War missions. Any type of missions with a Maelstrom component in it and your army will be to imbalanced.
/
Huh. never realised. I'll have to keep that in mind.
tag8833 wrote: So with the Changes to ITC its time to take a look at new ways to run Nids competitively. The meta is going to shift, and lists with a chance to win are going to be tailored to the missions in an even more extreme way.
The 1st obvious idea is double Skyblight. That gives you 6 fast scoring OS units of Gargoyles that come back when killed, the ability to rule the skies, and a good selection of sacrificial objective jumpers. The only problem is situations where you have to Null Deploy. If we could ally in it would be no problem, but without CtA it probably means either Deathleaper or a sporefield. I like the sporefield more because it is cheaper, and you can upgrade all of the harpies with HVC, and then have another 50 points to play with.
The second thought is what I'm calling "Pineapple Express" (Because I use converted pinapples as Tcytes). The idea here is lots of TCyting Dakkafexes, Upgrade the Tycytes to VC's. It is a metabuster list, not really a TAC. There are certain matchups that can just punk you. It does well against Marine Drop pod spam, and pretty good against Scat Bike spam, just can't deal with Wraith Knights. To make this list work, you must have a Comms Relay. Its not really a winning list, but seems like it would be fun. The overcosted nature of the Tyrannocyte especially when compared to free drop pods is just too much to fully overcome.
Do any of you guys have thoughts on the best way to deal with Drop Pod spam in the current meta. I keep playing against battle company, and I keep killing all of the marines, but the OS drop pods tend to win the game if they are played right. I just can't kill enough of them. A recent game of ITC's version of the Relic involved 6 drop pods all being dropped in range of the Relic surrounding it on all sides. So I had to basically kill 2 before I could even get to the Relic. He won Maelstrom by a million, and I ended up contesting the relic, but couldn't score it.
I DON'T recommend dual-skyblight either. It's just too many points, with the min config (assuming dakka flyrants w/egrubs) to be 1690-pts!!! You've only got 160-pts for the rest of your army in a typical 1850 list!!!
So what are the problems?
1. Only 2 flyrants.
2. Harpies and hive crones, while decent, are too ineffective to be the focus of your offense. In a double-skyblight list, they take out 850-pts for units that can't really do a whole lot of damage.
3. While 6 ObSec units are good, you will never be able to out-ObSec Marines. Double-skyblight just does not have enough offense to deal with Battle Company or Ravenwing builds.
4. What kind of units can you get for 160-pts??? The Sporefield formation is only 90-pts and you can't get any more than that. 160-pts of Tyranid allies is just junk, just the Deathleaper and a bunch of mucolids/spore mines for null deployment.
As for dealing with drop pod spam, I've re-designed my tournament list to be more of an offensive, null-deployment list as opposed to a more traditional MSU null-deployment list. Got rid of my lictors and even the malanthrope in return for more offense and MC's. This was the list I took to the BAO and another tournament:
I've had no problems with Battle Company or drop pod-spam so far. With the mawlocs, I am able to focus my flyrants more on the pods and let the mawlocs deal with the marines.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ratius wrote: Im thinking of going to a tourney laster in the year and came up with this Stealer rush list.
Could you guys help to maximise it? I'd love to take 4 Mawlocs but only have two Im afraid. I dont have any extra HTs either. It leaves me with about 300 points to spend.
I've maxed my Genestealer models too.
Do you think it has a chance, its mainly for fun but the Irish scene is quite competitive. However I'd like to not get tabled every game thanks!
If you want to run more stealers (and if you have more stealer models), I recommend you run one of the stealer formations as well, either the Broodlord Hunting Pack (3 genestealer broods + 1 Broodlord) or the Manufactorum Genestealers (5 stealer broods). What's funner than running 8 units of genestealers? Running up to 13 of those units.
tag8833 wrote: The 1st obvious idea is double Skyblight. That gives you 6 fast scoring OS units of Gargoyles that come back when killed, the ability to rule the skies, and a good selection of sacrificial objective jumpers. The only problem is situations where you have to Null Deploy. If we could ally in it would be no problem, but without CtA it probably means either Deathleaper or a sporefield. I like the sporefield more because it is cheaper, and you can upgrade all of the harpies with HVC, and then have another 50 points to play with.
As much as I enjoy playing the Skyblight, I don't think doubling up on it would make for an especially strong list (outside of a 2500+ point game at least). It's main strength is survivability (especially with larger Gargoyle Broods), but it really lacks offensive punch against tough ground targets (high toughness + good save models and AV12+).
Personally, I'd be tempted to try running it in conjunction with a 'stealer shock sort of list like Ratius listed. It has plenty of other targets for anti-infantry guns to worry about and both Harpies and Gargoyles are tailor made to help with assaults (Harpies pin targets and have their sonic screech for pseudo-grenades in a critical assault, Gargoyles act as living assault grenades by virtue of their tarpitting things and are excellent overwatch sponges).
The second thought is what I'm calling "Pineapple Express" (Because I use converted pinapples as Tcytes). The idea here is lots of TCyting Dakkafexes, Upgrade the Tycytes to VC's. It is a metabuster list, not really a TAC. There are certain matchups that can just punk you. It does well against Marine Drop pod spam, and pretty good against Scat Bike spam, just can't deal with Wraith Knights. To make this list work, you must have a Comms Relay. Its not really a winning list, but seems like it would be fun. The overcosted nature of the Tyrannocyte especially when compared to free drop pods is just too much to fully overcome.
Honestly, if I were building a list spamming Tyrannocytes I'd probably opt for more gribblies over monstrous creatures. The 'cyte itself is more expensive than the marine pod as already stated, but one can make up for that with cheaper bodies to toss inside it. A brood of 10x Devilgants + Tyrannocyte is only 155 points. In theory one could run six such units for max MSU OS saturation (with 180 S4 shots and 30 S5 shots) and still have 920 points to spend on other stuff/some extra ablative bodies.
EDIT: Also on the subject of the new Dark Angels, keep an eye out for anyone running multiple Ravenwing command squads with Apothecaries. The Apothecary itself doesn't have the unique tag in its unit type, but under the options it says onlyone Black Knight model in the army may be upgraded to an Apothecary.
2 wins and a draw going into day 22 at Woking Weird Boyz, beat farsight Bomb at kill points which was a super tough game, came down to a venomthrope taking the last wound off a riptide that charged him!
The. I played Flying Circus Daemons game 2 which was another insanely close game which I won, despite playing for a turn 5 ending and it going on to turn 7!
Game to was against the Eldar player who can 2nd place at this summers Cally, that was a stupidly close game I out deployed him, letting him think he would be able to get MoA off on me, but then just lining up my spores so he couldn't go anywhere ( vanguard deployment). That game ended up a draw in the scouring mission.
First game today is against my fellow team mate, and another elder player with 5 units of jetbikes, 30 warp spiders and a wraith knight, going to be a very tough game. I'm currently sat in 5th place. Two wins today and I should podium, but that's a big ask!
jy2 wrote: As for dealing with drop pod spam, I've re-designed my tournament list to be more of an offensive, null-deployment list as opposed to a more traditional MSU null-deployment list. Got rid of my lictors and even the malanthrope in return for more offense and MC's. This was the list I took to the BAO and another tournament:
I've had no problems with Battle Company or drop pod-spam so far. With the mawlocs, I am able to focus my flyrants more on the pods and let the mawlocs deal with the marines.
While that is a killy list, it would struggle to score points in ITC missions. You are basically surrendering Maelstrom to your opponent and planning to win EW and a majority of the tertiaries. I just don't see that as very possible to do consistently with the modern ITC missions.
Here is an example of a game that I saw recently at an ITC Tourney (My opponent conceded early, so I watched a fair amount of it). The mission was the Relic. It was a decent, but not optimized Tyranid list playing against a Marine battle company with 2 imperial knights. The Marine player dropped 6 drop pods on the relic, so that the Tyranid player had to kill at least 2 to even contest the relic. The other 4 or 5 or however many drop pods went on the maelstrom objectives. The Tyranid player killed all of the marines, but lost maelstrom and at the end of 5 he was contesting the relic, but it went on to 6, and the Drop pods surrounding the relic killed the last OS ripper, so without killing another 2-3 drop pods he had no way to even contest it.
My list was more suited to competing on Maelstrom, and depending on my luck there, I might have won that game, but I doubt it. It is just too hard to kill 10-12 drop pods, and if the space marine player doesn't cooperate with you by dropping them away from the EW objectives, you are going to have a tough time in several of the ITC missions.
So far I'm 2-1 vs Battle Company. But I haven't yet played a Drop Pod spam version which seems like it is the scariest version to my Nids (My Orks Just beat a 12 drop pod list).
Eldercaveman wrote: 2 wins and a draw going into day 22 at Woking Weird Boyz, beat farsight Bomb at kill points which was a super tough game, came down to a venomthrope taking the last wound off a riptide that charged him!
The. I played Flying Circus Daemons game 2 which was another insanely close game which I won, despite playing for a turn 5 ending and it going on to turn 7!
Game to was against the Eldar player who can 2nd place at this summers Cally, that was a stupidly close game I out deployed him, letting him think he would be able to get MoA off on me, but then just lining up my spores so he couldn't go anywhere ( vanguard deployment). That game ended up a draw in the scouring mission.
First game today is against my fellow team mate, and another elder player with 5 units of jetbikes, 30 warp spiders and a wraith knight, going to be a very tough game. I'm currently sat in 5th place. Two wins today and I should podium, but that's a big ask!
jy2 wrote: As for dealing with drop pod spam, I've re-designed my tournament list to be more of an offensive, null-deployment list as opposed to a more traditional MSU null-deployment list. Got rid of my lictors and even the malanthrope in return for more offense and MC's. This was the list I took to the BAO and another tournament:
I've had no problems with Battle Company or drop pod-spam so far. With the mawlocs, I am able to focus my flyrants more on the pods and let the mawlocs deal with the marines.
While that is a killy list, it would struggle to score points in ITC missions. You are basically surrendering Maelstrom to your opponent and planning to win EW and a majority of the tertiaries. I just don't see that as very possible to do consistently with the modern ITC missions.
Here is an example of a game that I saw recently at an ITC Tourney (My opponent conceded early, so I watched a fair amount of it). The mission was the Relic. It was a decent, but not optimized Tyranid list playing against a Marine battle company with 2 imperial knights. The Marine player dropped 6 drop pods on the relic, so that the Tyranid player had to kill at least 2 to even contest the relic. The other 4 or 5 or however many drop pods went on the maelstrom objectives. The Tyranid player killed all of the marines, but lost maelstrom and at the end of 5 he was contesting the relic, but it went on to 6, and the Drop pods surrounding the relic killed the last OS ripper, so without killing another 2-3 drop pods he had no way to even contest it.
My list was more suited to competing on Maelstrom, and depending on my luck there, I might have won that game, but I doubt it. It is just too hard to kill 10-12 drop pods, and if the space marine player doesn't cooperate with you by dropping them away from the EW objectives, you are going to have a tough time in several of the ITC missions.
So far I'm 2-1 vs Battle Company. But I haven't yet played a Drop Pod spam version which seems like it is the scariest version to my Nids (My Orks Just beat a 12 drop pod list).
Its weakness is definitely the Maelstrom objectives in the ITC format. However, it isn't as bad as I thought. Usually, at least 1/2 of the Maelstrom objectives, I can usually achieve quite easily (2 kill-a-units and have a unit within 12" of the enemy deployment). For the objective Maelstrom objectives, I can sometimes achieve them with the mawlocs.
I've had 8 battles with my list in tournament play so far. In those games, I've only lost in the Maelstrom twice (both times to the 2 opponents who beat me at the BAO). I've had 1 draw against Daemonkin (though had we continued playing, I would have won Maelstrom as well). In the 5 games that I've won, I've beaten Battle Company (actually beat them on straight Maelstrom points!). I've beaten a Skyhammer list with 6 pods and 14 grav-cannons coming down in 4 units. I've beaten dual-guard blobs with a 3rd unit of Fearless conscripts, 5 Imperial Knights and Eldar with 25 scatter-bikes and 9-hornets. All of these lists (with the exception of the IK army) have a very strong ground presence. Except for the knights, they are all armies that should have gave me problems in the Maelstrom objectives and yet my army was able to beat them in it.
With regards to your 6-drop pod opponent's list in the Relic, I probably would have demolished his list. I don't know how many flyrants your "friend" was running, but if you cluster up 6 pods surrounding the Relic, my 5 haywire templates would have had a field day! I would have been drooling at such a foolish move against my army. Then again, I can definitely see how a Tyranid player running 3 or fewer flyrants may have problems against that list.
Eldercaveman wrote: 2 wins and a draw going into day 22 at Woking Weird Boyz, beat farsight Bomb at kill points which was a super tough game, came down to a venomthrope taking the last wound off a riptide that charged him!
The. I played Flying Circus Daemons game 2 which was another insanely close game which I won, despite playing for a turn 5 ending and it going on to turn 7!
Game to was against the Eldar player who can 2nd place at this summers Cally, that was a stupidly close game I out deployed him, letting him think he would be able to get MoA off on me, but then just lining up my spores so he couldn't go anywhere ( vanguard deployment). That game ended up a draw in the scouring mission.
First game today is against my fellow team mate, and another elder player with 5 units of jetbikes, 30 warp spiders and a wraith knight, going to be a very tough game. I'm currently sat in 5th place. Two wins today and I should podium, but that's a big ask!
Those are some tough matchups.
Good luck on Day 2! We're rooting for you.
So due to some insane scoring system where a loss scores you the same amount of Tournament points as a Draw, provided you get to Turn 5 in your game I didn't play my team mates Eldar in my 4th game, I went up against a very tough Guard list with Libby Enclave, including Tiggy. It was a very tough game, with the Enclave putting Invis on to a blob of Gaurdsmean and Leviatating them all over the board, and it was looking like a bad match for me, until my Mawloc came on turn 3 and pulled out a heroic deep strike and sniped Tiggy out of the unit, meaning no more Invis, after which I tabled all bar 15 conscripts at the end of turn 6 when we ran out of time.
Going in to the final game I was one of only 4 people unbeaten, 3 of us had 3 wins and a draw and one player had 4 wins (he went on to win the whole thing) and some how because of the scoring system I was on table 5 against the Eldar player I drew against game 3, despite him having 1 loss, 2 wins, and a draw up to that point.
What a game! I messed up at the start, forgetting his Culexus was infiltrating and got really lazy with my positioning, because of this he dropped a Hive Tyrant turn one for First Blood, in my first turn I then dropped the Culexus because he was such a big pain last game. Other than that I did very little damage as he only deployed his Vauls Batteries and a unit of Dark Reapers in the far corner. Turn two all his reserves come on, and through some crazy dice he fails to kill anything, he gets one Hive Tyrant who was just infront of the Vauls down to one wound, I fail my grounding check and his roll to wound !!!!!! This was the big swing in the game, from there the grounded Tyrant jumped into the Ruins and wiped out the Vaul's over two turns, it then took him until turn 5 to drop another Hive Tyrant, at the end of Turn 6 I tabled him!!
When all was said and done, there were 3 players undeafted the overall winner who won 5 games, and me and one other player with 4-0-1. I had higher VP's than him so naturally I came
Question: Seeing as how penta-flyrants is having trouble in maelstrom heavy tournaments, do you think dropping 2 tyrants and adjusting points to start running skyblight would be a good call? Even with the harpy tax, having access to speedy, deepstrikable, cheap, objective secured units that can respawn seems like it would be ok
omerakk wrote: Question: Seeing as how penta-flyrants is having trouble in maelstrom heavy tournaments, do you think dropping 2 tyrants and adjusting points to start running skyblight would be a good call? Even with the harpy tax, having access to speedy, deepstrikable, cheap, objective secured units that can respawn seems like it would be ok
A short answer is no. I do think a 3 or 4 Flyrant list is significantly better (In ITC or Maelstrom) than a 5 flyrant list, but the problem with Skyblight beyond the Harpy Tax is that you end up depending on the 3 units of gargoyles too much for ground presence and scoring. A Savy opponent will take them out, and force you to start landing fliers.
Also, if single skyblight was a good way to go it would have been figured out by now. My playtesting with Skyblight has been less impressive than lost of other Tyranid builds I've run. I haven't playtested double skyblight, which I think might address some of the flaws with my single skyblight list, but it might be too much of a hit to damage output, I'll give it a shot eventually.
Having the Chance to Roll to bring Gargoyles back, and having Deep Strike, they can fall again on Objectives... again, that is more luck and not reliable. but having also a CAD with some reapers DS is a lot of Objsec DS
The biggest problem with Skyblight is that any clever opponent will just take them down to 1 or 2 and then just leave them until late in the game. Unless it's the scouring and the you just bleed points.
Eldercaveman wrote: So due to some insane scoring system where a loss scores you the same amount of Tournament points as a Draw, provided you get to Turn 5 in your game I didn't play my team mates Eldar in my 4th game, I went up against a very tough Guard list with Libby Enclave, including Tiggy. It was a very tough game, with the Enclave putting Invis on to a blob of Gaurdsmean and Leviatating them all over the board, and it was looking like a bad match for me, until my Mawloc came on turn 3 and pulled out a heroic deep strike and sniped Tiggy out of the unit, meaning no more Invis, after which I tabled all bar 15 conscripts at the end of turn 6 when we ran out of time.
Going in to the final game I was one of only 4 people unbeaten, 3 of us had 3 wins and a draw and one player had 4 wins (he went on to win the whole thing) and some how because of the scoring system I was on table 5 against the Eldar player I drew against game 3, despite him having 1 loss, 2 wins, and a draw up to that point.
What a game! I messed up at the start, forgetting his Culexus was infiltrating and got really lazy with my positioning, because of this he dropped a Hive Tyrant turn one for First Blood, in my first turn I then dropped the Culexus because he was such a big pain last game. Other than that I did very little damage as he only deployed his Vauls Batteries and a unit of Dark Reapers in the far corner. Turn two all his reserves come on, and through some crazy dice he fails to kill anything, he gets one Hive Tyrant who was just infront of the Vauls down to one wound, I fail my grounding check and his roll to wound !!!!!! This was the big swing in the game, from there the grounded Tyrant jumped into the Ruins and wiped out the Vaul's over two turns, it then took him until turn 5 to drop another Hive Tyrant, at the end of Turn 6 I tabled him!!
When all was said and done, there were 3 players undeafted the overall winner who won 5 games, and me and one other player with 4-0-1. I had higher VP's than him so naturally I came
Spoiler:
Fourth
What? Lol! How'd they mess up that scoring?
Anyways congrats! Very well done and against some intense competition. I would have liked to see the game against your Eldar mate, but I have a feeling that you would have heavily dominated that matchup.
Which of your matchups did you felt was the toughest?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
omerakk wrote: Question: Seeing as how penta-flyrants is having trouble in maelstrom heavy tournaments, do you think dropping 2 tyrants and adjusting points to start running skyblight would be a good call? Even with the harpy tax, having access to speedy, deepstrikable, cheap, objective secured units that can respawn seems like it would be ok
Skyblight is still one of the more competitive Tyranid TAC builds. It's a lot different from a Pentyrant list but it isn't necessarily worse. To me, it's more of a playstyle preference whether you want to run Pentyrants or Skyblight. Both have their strengths and both have their weaknesses. Overall, both are still very competitive Tyranid builds.
One of the Tyranid players in the ITC circuit, John Dyer, is currently ranked 2nd top Tyranid player (behind iNcontrol, who is currently the top Tyranid player as well as the top Overall player in the ITC). He runs Skyblight with 3 flyrants (so 4 flyrants total) and is doing very well. He even beat me in the rankings at the BAO (I was 3rd Tyranid player, he was 2nd).
Eldercaveman wrote: So due to some insane scoring system where a loss scores you the same amount of Tournament points as a Draw, provided you get to Turn 5 in your game I didn't play my team mates Eldar in my 4th game, I went up against a very tough Guard list with Libby Enclave, including Tiggy. It was a very tough game, with the Enclave putting Invis on to a blob of Gaurdsmean and Leviatating them all over the board, and it was looking like a bad match for me, until my Mawloc came on turn 3 and pulled out a heroic deep strike and sniped Tiggy out of the unit, meaning no more Invis, after which I tabled all bar 15 conscripts at the end of turn 6 when we ran out of time.
Going in to the final game I was one of only 4 people unbeaten, 3 of us had 3 wins and a draw and one player had 4 wins (he went on to win the whole thing) and some how because of the scoring system I was on table 5 against the Eldar player I drew against game 3, despite him having 1 loss, 2 wins, and a draw up to that point.
What a game! I messed up at the start, forgetting his Culexus was infiltrating and got really lazy with my positioning, because of this he dropped a Hive Tyrant turn one for First Blood, in my first turn I then dropped the Culexus because he was such a big pain last game. Other than that I did very little damage as he only deployed his Vauls Batteries and a unit of Dark Reapers in the far corner. Turn two all his reserves come on, and through some crazy dice he fails to kill anything, he gets one Hive Tyrant who was just infront of the Vauls down to one wound, I fail my grounding check and his roll to wound !!!!!! This was the big swing in the game, from there the grounded Tyrant jumped into the Ruins and wiped out the Vaul's over two turns, it then took him until turn 5 to drop another Hive Tyrant, at the end of Turn 6 I tabled him!!
When all was said and done, there were 3 players undeafted the overall winner who won 5 games, and me and one other player with 4-0-1. I had higher VP's than him so naturally I came
Spoiler:
Fourth
What? Lol! How'd they mess up that scoring?
Anyways congrats! Very well done and against some intense competition. I would have liked to see the game against your Eldar mate, but I have a feeling that you would have heavily dominated that matchup.
Which of your matchups did you felt was the toughest?
So the scoring system worked like this,
If you won and got to turn 5 or more (or the game ended naturally) you got 5 TP's, if you won and didn't get to turn 5 or later you got 4, if you drew you got 1, if you lost and got to turn 5 or the game ended naturally you got 1 and if you lost but the game didn't get to turn 5 you got 0.
As for toughest match up, I couldn't see a way of beating the guard list as it was 3 objectives and they were close enough for his blob to surround them all (my fault I didn't click on to the gimmick of his list until he deployed) but the Mawloc saved the day on that one. The first time I played against the Eldar list I tabled in my last game was pretty rough and I was gifted a draw because he moved out of Linebreaker range (all though in hindsight, it would have made no difference about standings, as I'd have just been one VP down, and on the same TP's. Maybe I'd have been less bitter about not coming 2nd). Oh and the Eldar guy I played twice came 2nd at Cally, last month.
Against my friends list, I was really terrified of that match up, I'm not sure what I could have done. I'd have taken out his Jetbikes, and hoped the Mawloc and some Psychic screams could do damage against his Warp Spiders, and just ignored the Wraithknight.
So I was wondering with the new ITC what gun upgrade would be better. The Barbed or the Venom on the T-Cthes.
I think having two to 3 pods will give a unique board control unit.
Warrior based cron units will hate Venom pods. Which is a good thing.
We are not really use to having units that shoot 36 in. a turn. This is going to make us think about placement more. I think we can have some sniping options.
I think people will be surprised at the amount of damage these units will cause.
I had a death-spitter unit land in the rear of a hell turkey and take of a hull point or two killing it.
Ten to 15 templates for 50 to 75 points seams to be a good Idea. I think you start unbalancing the list if you go above that.
If you won and got to turn 5 or more (or the game ended naturally) you got 5 TP's, if you won and didn't get to turn 5 or later you got 4, if you drew you got 1, if you lost and got to turn 5 or the game ended naturally you got 1 and if you lost but the game didn't get to turn 5 you got 0.
As for toughest match up, I couldn't see a way of beating the guard list as it was 3 objectives and they were close enough for his blob to surround them all (my fault I didn't click on to the gimmick of his list until he deployed) but the Mawloc saved the day on that one. The first time I played against the Eldar list I tabled in my last game was pretty rough and I was gifted a draw because he moved out of Linebreaker range (all though in hindsight, it would have made no difference about standings, as I'd have just been one VP down, and on the same TP's. Maybe I'd have been less bitter about not coming 2nd). Oh and the Eldar guy I played twice came 2nd at Cally, last month.
Against my friends list, I was really terrified of that match up, I'm not sure what I could have done. I'd have taken out his Jetbikes, and hoped the Mawloc and some Psychic screams could do damage against his Warp Spiders, and just ignored the Wraithknight.
That's some funky scoring mechanics there. While I understand the intent, I'm not so sure I like it. Go up against a horde player or a slower player and that really screws you, through no fault of your own. And then if you are a horde player and you're not super-fast, well, good luck. Overall, one of the biggest drawbacks with this mechanic is that it will serve to stymie variety. People who care about winning will drop the armies that are slower to play in favor of armies that play faster. You're going to see a facet of the game taken out, at least for a good population of the tournament goers. In turn, more people will be playing the same, or very similar, style of armies.
I played against a triple-blob Guard list in one of my tournaments. He run 2x50 blobs with Yarrick and Celestine and a 50x Conscript unit with Priest. He had a very strong ground presence and I? Flyrants, mawlocs and mucolids. I found the key to the matchup was 1) egrubs did wonders in my game, 2) mawlocs did a lot of work and 3) push up into his blobs to prevent them from advancing. You want to keep them contained somewhat in their deployment zone so that they aren't able to threaten your objectives. Only their objectives were threatened (by my mawlocs) and they'd be too busy trying to defend. Basically, it was my philosophy of Positional Dominance which was how I was able to beat a superior ground force in the Maelstrom objectives. (BTW, in our game, he had 5 lascannons in each blob and got 2 Skyfire Nexus objectives for both of his blobs to camp on, along with the Ignore Cover orders. Lol!).
I think your army has the tools to deal with your Eldar friends. Be glad that the tourney does not have a Maelstrom component to it so that you will never have to put your flyrants at risk until Turn 5.
I've been using Hierodules a bit recently with some moderate success, they are extremely squishy for the points though.
So I have been looking at alternatives and wondered if anyone had tried pairing up a Flyrants list with a malanthrope in either a primus redoubt or aquila strong point?
They both have strength D large blasts and can house a malanthrope to give Flyrants a good 2+ cover save turn 1. And they both are similar in points to the Hierodules.
Does this idea have any legs or is this going to lead to the same problem of too many eggs in one basket to be considered competitive?
shadowfinder wrote: So I was wondering with the new ITC what gun upgrade would be better. The Barbed or the Venom on the T-Cthes.
I think having two to 3 pods will give a unique board control unit.
Warrior based cron units will hate Venom pods. Which is a good thing.
We are not really use to having units that shoot 36 in. a turn. This is going to make us think about placement more. I think we can have some sniping options.
I think people will be surprised at the amount of damage these units will cause.
I had a death-spitter unit land in the rear of a hell turkey and take of a hull point or two killing it.
Ten to 15 templates for 50 to 75 points seams to be a good Idea. I think you start unbalancing the list if you go above that.
What are peoples thoughts?
That really depends on your meta. If you play against mech a lot, might want to consider the VC. If you play against infantry a lot, then the BS will probably be the way to go.
Personally, I'd rather keep the default weapons. Make it cheap and then spend the points elsewhere in the army.
Terror from the Deep wrote: I've been using Hierodules a bit recently with some moderate success, they are extremely squishy for the points though.
So I have been looking at alternatives and wondered if anyone had tried pairing up a Flyrants list with a malanthrope in either a primus redoubt or aquila strong point?
They both have strength D large blasts and can house a malanthrope to give Flyrants a good 2+ cover save turn 1. And they both are similar in points to the Hierodules.
Does this idea have any legs or is this going to lead to the same problem of too many eggs in one basket to be considered competitive?
Personally, I'd rather invest my points into a unit that can move and threaten the opponent. However, I really don't have any experience with the strong point or redoubt. My recommendation is to proxy it in practice games to see if you like it or not (unless you've already got the actual fortification).
Had another game with my Overlord Swarm (3 Hierodules)
They are fun to use, but I'm pointedly aware they're not going to do much to a 'proper' knight or wraithknight list.
I actually had a random thought in terms of bulking the army out - I don't want to use 'normal' units (because if you're doing a superheavy army, use a pure superheavies), but I was thinking that spore mines are essentially just one-use ordnance, so I don't mind using them.
The sporefield looks like a nice formation - flexible to any value from 90 to 270 points, so it's good for filling up points to a given limit, and mucolids and spore mines look like they might be useful - the spore mines can keep tarpits away and make objectives unattractive to attack, the mucolids can in theory even threaten big stuff or flyers (albeit more likely just draw fire for a turn!) and if placed right are ideally big enough to offer the bio-titans some cover if they need it.
would the benefits of the sporefield justify the formation or is it easier just to pack out with mucolid spores?
Tonight I'm goign to try the Sporefield on a friendly game, but I'm quite in love with the formation, infiltrating spores with a 50% chance to respawn them (if killed or exploding), and DS.
Infiltrating Mucolids on objectives if posible, will keep them away, better if in cover, since they got shroud, on a normal cover of 5+, they have a save of 3+, and 3W.
Infiltrating spores mines, they are so small that you could find lot of places without your enemy having LoS to deploy them 12" away, will reduce their movement freedom.
And even waste firepower on those 6 units, and since destroying them does not award victory points, they also don't concede First Blood.
Oh, I knowspores are good - it was more the fact that even hidden 12" away they'll take 2+ turns to get there.
the mucolids on objectives as area denial, I get - they just seem massively better than regular spores for the same points.
that said, I've been thinking, and even regular mines should be good for blocking movement - as three small bases, arguably better than a mucolid. I found a video where a canny nid player had pinned a knight in with a fence of them - no space to move without coming within 1", and couldn't fire ordnance at such close range, 30 points of spores cost a~ 400 point superheavy its movement and assault phases...
the only real problem is the ****ing cost of mucolid models!
locarno24 wrote: The only real problem is the ****ing cost of mucolid models!
I'm proxying them for tonight, and maybe getting a friend that is studying special effects to get some done
In Argentina it is not expensive... IT'S IMPOSSIBLE to get originals models (Speacially new ones), but, as they have the right measures, there wont be any trouble.
Plus, you are not hoping for the spore mines to close in and detonate, you are just driving fire from your importante units to them... and denying area of movement, if he dares to walk close or past them, then he saves you the movement, and if he stay away, then he will be lacking objectives and losing points. Spores hides in ruins, or cover, so he wont venture to have the cover for himself.
Thats sort of what I mean. A good thought experiment for an Overlord Swarm is a Knight Lance.
At 1500 Points, you have 4 knights stick 2 Hierodules (because they're 65 points too sodding expensive to field a third!).
Now, in a shooting match, they can probably handle them - or at least put up a good fight - the knights' battlecannons land two hits each, half wound, and if you're in cover slightly less than half of that gets through save and feel no pain for about two wounds. The bugs land six hits each, four damage and two through the ion shields, for a total of four - which works out equal with twelve wounds to twenty-four hull points.
It's slightly in the bugs favour in reality - the knights can miss with a really bad scatter, 5+ cover and feel no pain combined is actually a touch better than a 4+ ion shield, any errants only get one shot not two, and if you can spread out and catch side armour and/or an unshielded facing your damage goes up massively. This is all irrelevant, however, because by turn 2-3 the knights charge and you get ginsu-sliced by reaper chainswords because you're massively outclassed in mêlée.
A field of spore mines can block the knights for another turn or two and keep it as a shooting match I can win. Hell, 5-6 strong clusters might even take the odd hull point off in the process!
locarno24 wrote: Thats sort of what I mean. A good thought experiment for an Overlord Swarm is a Knight Lance.
At 1500 Points, you have 4 knights stick 2 Hierodules (because they're 65 points too sodding expensive to field a third!).
Now, in a shooting match, they can probably handle them - or at least put up a good fight - the knights' battlecannons land two hits each, half wound, and if you're in cover slightly less than half of that gets through save and feel no pain for about two wounds. The bugs land six hits each, four damage and two through the ion shields, for a total of four - which works out equal with twelve wounds to twenty-four hull points.
It's slightly in the bugs favour in reality - the knights can miss with a really bad scatter, 5+ cover and feel no pain combined is actually a touch better than a 4+ ion shield, any errants only get one shot not two, and if you can spread out and catch side armour and/or an unshielded facing your damage goes up massively. This is all irrelevant, however, because by turn 2-3 the knights charge and you get ginsu-sliced by reaper chainswords because you're massively outclassed in mêlée.
A field of spore mines can block the knights for another turn or two and keep it as a shooting match I can win. Hell, 5-6 strong clusters might even take the odd hull point off in the process!
It gets even worse if the knight player is running Adamantine Lance formation + 1 extra knight.
However, the prudent bug player will park his hierodule completely in terrain so he would at least get the first swing in Assault before getting ginsu'd.
Lance I don't mind so much; If you're staying close enough together to get the adamantium lance's benefit, it's nigh impossible to get up the board towards one hierodule without flashing your side or rear armour at the other one, and a pair of biocannon has a not unreasonable chance of gutting a knight in a single volley
I'm considering entering an upcoming Highlander tournament in my area, and am wondering if I'm on the right track with my list.
Now, a little addition, in my area Highlander tournaments also impose the 'highlander' rule on dedicated transports, so only one Wave Serpent or Rhino for example.
The tournament will be 1850 points, 3 'sources' allowed, Forge World allowed, 1 LoW of less than 400 points allowed.
I was toying with the list below, any opinions on whether it will stand any chance?
Now, some questions:
* Can a model shoot the Quad Gun even if it normally doesn't have a gun (was thinking to park the Malanthrope or Zoanthrope there)?
* Will a Flyrant and Hive Crone be sufficiently covered by the height of an Aegis Defense Line to claim the 4+ cover (my ADL model still has to arrive, so can't check yet). You need 25% obscurement right?
I'm considering entering an upcoming Highlander tournament in my area, and am wondering if I'm on the right track with my list.
Now, a little addition, in my area Highlander tournaments also impose the 'highlander' rule on dedicated transports, so only one Wave Serpent or Rhino for example.
The tournament will be 1850 points, 3 'sources' allowed, Forge World allowed, 1 LoW of less than 400 points allowed.
I was toying with the list below, any opinions on whether it will stand any chance?
Now, some questions:
* Can a model shoot the Quad Gun even if it normally doesn't have a gun (was thinking to park the Malanthrope or Zoanthrope there)?
* Will a Flyrant and Hive Crone be sufficiently covered by the height of an Aegis Defense Line to claim the 4+ cover (my ADL model still has to arrive, so can't check yet). You need 25% obscurement right?
Any feedback welcome!
What are the rulings on Tervigons? Are you allowed to spawn more than one brood of Termagaunts? Cos if so I say take one, I used one in my highlander tourney where I couldn't and it still proved fairly useful (with CCs, so decent in melee).
I'd also consider a Harpy solely because people tend not to bring much AA in Highlander (potentially over the Hive Guard I guess?). The upgraded guns on the T-Cyte are also quite nice in this format, massed Str6 does well.
I would say that an Aegis will no way give a save to a Harpy/Crone, likely not to a Flyrant even if you model it standing. I'd just take a Bunker/Bastion instead - you can stick the Malanthrope inside to protect it, and anything on the battlements will get a 2+ cover. Otherwise, stick the Malanthrope in ruins/terrain and put the fliers nearby. If you add an escape hatch to the bunker, you can catapult the Malanthrope forward to buff your fliers as they advance/protect whatever comes out of the pod - then put the Biovores inside to protect them. However, you canot iirc take both a Quadgun and a Comms on the same piece of terrain, so you might wanna look at that.
A Hive Tyrant will receive cover from an Aegies if he is "on his feet" not on his tail in the flying pose. The Crone never will. Your list is fairly solid for a highlander format, but Benlisted is correct that you can't take both a quad-gun and a comma relay. I really don't think you need the quad, however. If you do, however, then itau be fired by any model.
Now, some questions:
* Can a model shoot the Quad Gun even if it normally doesn't have a gun (was thinking to park the Malanthrope or Zoanthrope there)?
* Will a Flyrant and Hive Crone be sufficiently covered by the height of an Aegis Defense Line to claim the 4+ cover (my ADL model still has to arrive, so can't check yet). You need 25% obscurement right?
Any feedback welcome!
What are the rulings on Tervigons? Are you allowed to spawn more than one brood of Termagaunts? Cos if so I say take one, I used one in my highlander tourney where I couldn't and it still proved fairly useful (with CCs, so decent in melee).
I'd also consider a Harpy solely because people tend not to bring much AA in Highlander (potentially over the Hive Guard I guess?). The upgraded guns on the T-Cyte are also quite nice in this format, massed Str6 does well.
Only units that produce troops are allowed, so Tervigons function normally. They are limited to a maximum of three though, but if I get three spawns with a Tervigon, I generally consider myself lucky
I was tempted to include a Harpy as well, but with the amount of cover saves shenanigans that most armies can bring, Hive Guard seem more solid to me.
I didn't know you could only have one 'add-on' to an Aegis, I'll remove the Quad Gun, since I should have plenty of AA anyway.
The one thing I'm still a bit leery about is the WraithKnight. I'm debating taking a unit of Shrikes just for him, but they are so damn expensive, I'm not sure it's worth the price :|
Polkadragon wrote: Only units that produce troops are allowed, so Tervigons function normally. They are limited to a maximum of three though, but if I get three spawns with a Tervigon, I generally consider myself lucky
I was tempted to include a Harpy as well, but with the amount of cover saves shenanigans that most armies can bring, Hive Guard seem more solid to me.
I didn't know you could only have one 'add-on' to an Aegis, I'll remove the Quad Gun, since I should have plenty of AA anyway.
The one thing I'm still a bit leery about is the WraithKnight. I'm debating taking a unit of Shrikes just for him, but they are so damn expensive, I'm not sure it's worth the price :|
Genestealers are your best bet against the WK. They will keep him away and as long as you put the leading stealers in ruins and trail them back to your malanthrope/venomthrope, then they become quite survivable.
Polkadragon wrote: Only units that produce troops are allowed, so Tervigons function normally. They are limited to a maximum of three though, but if I get three spawns with a Tervigon, I generally consider myself lucky
I was tempted to include a Harpy as well, but with the amount of cover saves shenanigans that most armies can bring, Hive Guard seem more solid to me.
I didn't know you could only have one 'add-on' to an Aegis, I'll remove the Quad Gun, since I should have plenty of AA anyway.
The one thing I'm still a bit leery about is the WraithKnight. I'm debating taking a unit of Shrikes just for him, but they are so damn expensive, I'm not sure it's worth the price :|
Genestealers are your best bet against the WK. They will keep him away and as long as you put the leading stealers in ruins and trail them back to your malanthrope/venomthrope, then they become quite survivable.
The other option would be to run the Dimachaeron.
Based on this, I did some Excel mathhammering to figure out which combination of Genestealers (with or without biomorphs and Broodlord) would be best to handle a Wraithknight.
Here are the results (assumed they get the charge at full strength):
- yeah never mind math is wrong - boy do genestealers suck now
Polkadragon wrote: Only units that produce troops are allowed, so Tervigons function normally. They are limited to a maximum of three though, but if I get three spawns with a Tervigon, I generally consider myself lucky
I was tempted to include a Harpy as well, but with the amount of cover saves shenanigans that most armies can bring, Hive Guard seem more solid to me.
I didn't know you could only have one 'add-on' to an Aegis, I'll remove the Quad Gun, since I should have plenty of AA anyway.
The one thing I'm still a bit leery about is the WraithKnight. I'm debating taking a unit of Shrikes just for him, but they are so damn expensive, I'm not sure it's worth the price :|
Genestealers are your best bet against the WK. They will keep him away and as long as you put the leading stealers in ruins and trail them back to your malanthrope/venomthrope, then they become quite survivable.
The other option would be to run the Dimachaeron.
Based on this, I did some Excel mathhammering to figure out which combination of Genestealers (with or without biomorphs and Broodlord) would be best to handle a Wraithknight.
Here are the results (assumed they get the charge at full strength):
So, conclusions, leave your Broodlords at home and invest in Toxin Sacs Scything Talons are not strictly needed, but give you some extra safety.
Besides Poison only wounding gargants on 6's, did you also account for FNP on the WK?
Polkadragon wrote: Only units that produce troops are allowed, so Tervigons function normally. They are limited to a maximum of three though, but if I get three spawns with a Tervigon, I generally consider myself lucky
I was tempted to include a Harpy as well, but with the amount of cover saves shenanigans that most armies can bring, Hive Guard seem more solid to me.
I didn't know you could only have one 'add-on' to an Aegis, I'll remove the Quad Gun, since I should have plenty of AA anyway.
The one thing I'm still a bit leery about is the WraithKnight. I'm debating taking a unit of Shrikes just for him, but they are so damn expensive, I'm not sure it's worth the price :|
Genestealers are your best bet against the WK. They will keep him away and as long as you put the leading stealers in ruins and trail them back to your malanthrope/venomthrope, then they become quite survivable.
The other option would be to run the Dimachaeron.
Based on this, I did some Excel mathhammering to figure out which combination of Genestealers (with or without biomorphs and Broodlord) would be best to handle a Wraithknight.
Here are the results (assumed they get the charge at full strength):
So, conclusions, leave your Broodlords at home and invest in Toxin Sacs Scything Talons are not strictly needed, but give you some extra safety.
Besides Poison only wounding gargants on 6's, did you also account for FNP on the WK?
No, FNP was not included.
You guys are right, the math is wrong, I also included a reroll to wound because of the toxin sacs, but that's only on equal st vs toughness :(
I'll recalculate the results.
Polkadragon wrote: You guys are right, the math is wrong, I also included a reroll to wound because of the toxin sacs, but that's only on equal st vs toughness :(
I'll recalculate the results.
That got nerfed on 7th, it has to be S>T not anymore for S=T (not that that would've make a difference here)
I am also interested in dakka'a thoughts on nid highlander. Seems tough for the nids wondering what people think. I feel broods of dakkafex could be useful and the dimacharon seems promising. Also tervigon seems like a no brainer due to spawning
Yeah ok, having redone the math and factored in FNP and the uselessness of Toxin Sacs vs Gargantuans, the picture is suddenly not so shiny anymore.
This just in, Genestealers suck (and I'm the last to realise it )
Skycapt44, I don't necessarily agree with you that Highlander is tough on the Nids. On the contrary, I feel it solves a number of problems that 'regular' Nids have, by prohibiting spamming units such as Wave Serpents, Scat Bikes, etc. Granted, you can 't go 'Codex Flyrant' as well, but I find that to be a refreshing change, which makes room for a more balanced list.
Based on the remarks I've received so far, I'll retweak the list to include a Tervigon, and put some Venom Cannons on the Tyrranocyte. I agree with skycapt44 that broods of dakkafexes can be lethal as well, although you do lose the ability to drop them behind enemy lines in a Tyrannocyte., which makes them a bit less flexible to me.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Updated HighLander list!
Gives you good objective grabbing power with the Rippers and Gaunts, disruption with a double-template Tervigon and a Mawloc, a mini Flyer Spam with Flyrant, Hive Crone, Harpy and a solid shooting base with the Malanthrope, Carnifex and LAN behind the Aegis.
Thoughts? I should add that the tournament is a mix of Eternal War on primaries (lots of objectives) and modified Maelstrom on secondaries.
skycapt44 wrote: I am also interested in dakka'a thoughts on nid highlander. Seems tough for the nids wondering what people think. I feel broods of dakkafex could be useful and the dimacharon seems promising. Also tervigon seems like a no brainer due to spawning
Considering how every list starts out with how many flyrants can I fit, then how do I best support them with my left over points, I'd say nids are in trouble.
If you can only select a single FW unit in the highlander do you think the dimacharon is a better choice than the malanthrope? I mean you can always take venoms so dima seems like that way to go in a cyte.
Gives you good objective grabbing power with the Rippers and Gaunts, disruption with a double-template Tervigon and a Mawloc, a mini Flyer Spam with Flyrant, Hive Crone, Harpy and a solid shooting base with the Malanthrope, Carnifex and LAN behind the Aegis.
Thoughts? I should add that the tournament is a mix of Eternal War on primaries (lots of objectives) and modified Maelstrom on secondaries.
Are the 3 biovores in a single brood or are they independent? This formation would not work in a Highlander event if they were independent.
skycapt44 wrote: If you can only select a single FW unit in the highlander do you think the dimacharon is a better choice than the malanthrope? I mean you can always take venoms so dima seems like that way to go in a cyte.
I find the Malanthrope is just better than the Dima, besides the venom effect, he's also solid Synapse and decent in cc with his poisoned attacks and preferred enemy aura.
to the other poster: the Biovores have to be in one brood of 3
skycapt44 wrote: If you can only select a single FW unit in the highlander do you think the dimacharon is a better choice than the malanthrope? I mean you can always take venoms so dima seems like that way to go in a cyte.
It all depends on the rest of the list and the highlander rules.
Polkadragon wrote: The one thing I'm still a bit leery about is the WraithKnight. I'm debating taking a unit of Shrikes just for him, but they are so damn expensive, I'm not sure it's worth the price :|
Genestealers are your best bet against the WK. They will keep him away and as long as you put the leading stealers in ruins and trail them back to your malanthrope/venomthrope, then they become quite survivable.
The other option would be to run the Dimachaeron.
Shrikes, Raveners, Genestealers, Dimacharon, Toxicrines, and Neurothropes are our best choices to kill a wraith knight, but they are all bad. Best to ignore them, kill everything else, and win the mission. Build a list to survive the Wraith Knight, not to kill it.
Polkadragon wrote: The one thing I'm still a bit leery about is the WraithKnight. I'm debating taking a unit of Shrikes just for him, but they are so damn expensive, I'm not sure it's worth the price :|
Genestealers are your best bet against the WK. They will keep him away and as long as you put the leading stealers in ruins and trail them back to your malanthrope/venomthrope, then they become quite survivable.
The other option would be to run the Dimachaeron.
Shrikes, Raveners, Genestealers, Dimacharon, Toxicrines, and Neurothropes are our best choices to kill a wraith knight, but they are all bad. Best to ignore them, kill everything else, and win the mission. Build a list to survive the Wraith Knight, not to kill it.
I wouldn't send shrikes and raveners to deal with the WK. He will just insta-kill them. To him, they are no harder to kill than the genestealer, yet they can cost 2-3x as much.
But yeah, best tactic is to just ignore him (or send in a tarpit uni against him) and then focus on the rest of the army.
Cue much whining from me. Given that, I decided to go for the maelstrom win, and was thus landing flyrants to get ascendancy and domination. I was way up on the maelstrom points, but of course it was a n00b mistake and my flyrants promptly got assaulted and ripped to pieces. The Knight just walked up the table and blew stuff up/assaulted/stomped stuff to death. Quite humiliating really.
This turn, he takes out the rest of my transports and kill a few guys. However, he achieves neither of his Maelstrom objectives due to my ObSec guys.
At least I get both of my Maelstrom objectives once again (kill 1 unit and have 1 unit in his deployment zone).
. But despite my dice and no-skyfire in my list, I ended killing most of his flyrants (but I couldn't touch the Harridan due to Fighter Ace) and would have won the game had it ended on Turn 5. Alas, my luck was not to be as the game went on to 6 and there I lost it.
Nevermind me then.
