I agree with Kan (!!!) - I do not think Link Teams are really that complex to learn at all, especially compared with all the other rules you have to learn anyway when starting Infinity.
One of the events was a mission where you had to 'earn' the right to pilot your Raicho T.A.G.
How was this represented?
Maybe using Mierce minis too?
Plus this pic:
I'd have thought he'd have an even bigger crowd around him!
I will offer the dissenting opinion, vanilla factions are easier for new players as they have access to all the tools in the infinity toolbox. They don't have to learn how to play around a given sectorial's weakness while learning the basic rules of the game as well.
From a personal perspective, play the faction you like the models of most. Everything else will work itself out. Like only the Aleph greek models? Play the Steel Phalanx. Like the look of a whole variety of Haqqislam models? Play vanilla. You can do no wrong.
Henshini wrote: From a personal perspective, play the faction you like the models of most.
That should be the end of it, I'd imagine.
Henshini wrote: Like only the Aleph greek models? Play the Steel Phalanx.
If I were interested in Aleph then my only question, as an uninitiated player, would be what's a Steel Phalanx?
Steel Phalanx is the sectorial for Aleph, which means you have access to less of the Aleph models than just vanilla Aleph, but access to more of those models, and some extra rules to make them better. For SP, this means you can use all the Greek themed models (Achilles, Ajax, Myrmidons, Thorakatai etc).
I don't people were saying 'limit yourself' to a Sectorial - more like, "don't worry about link team rules being too complicated, because they aren't".
Alpharius wrote:
One of the events was a mission where you had to 'earn' the right to pilot your Raicho T.A.G.
How was this represented?
Maybe using Mierce minis too?
What the feth is that thing?! I've got no idea what is going on but it looks awesome!
Dentry wrote:
Henshini wrote: From a personal perspective, play the faction you like the models of most.
That should be the end of it, I'd imagine.
Henshini wrote: Like only the Aleph greek models? Play the Steel Phalanx.
If I were interested in Aleph then my only question, as an uninitiated player, would be what's a Steel Phalanx?
I agree, I would go with miniature aesthetic and concept you like the most first.
Start with the 'starter' rules, either the downloaded ones or from the new starter set, play a handful of games with those, and then introduce the full rules.
It's great actually if you are learning the game at the same time as an opponent, you can have a mini arms-race where you both learn of devious things you can do in the rules, and then spring them on your opponent during the game..
I'm guessing Corvus Belli underestimated demand. That or they brought the maximum amount of stuff within constraints (storage space, shipping expenses/time, etc) and it just wasn't enough.
Pacific wrote: Start with the 'starter' rules, either the downloaded ones or from the new starter set, play a handful of games with those, and then introduce the full rules.
It's great actually if you are learning the game at the same time as an opponent, you can have a mini arms-race where you both learn of devious things you can do in the rules, and then spring them on your opponent during the game..
That's my plan currently. I'd considered reading the available rules in preparation for Icestorm, but have decided to just wait on the box and go from there to avoid any confusion between editions.
Until you play your first game. Then so much becomes crystal clear. So get the Quick Starter rules (should be here http://www.infinitythegame.com/infinity/downloads/rules/%5Ben%5DQSR-A4.pdf), set up a table and proxy a few minis and play through them, or walk yourself through the rules this way. The new QS rules should be available next week I hear. Icestorm will ship in September.
Pick the faction that has the most visual appeal to you. This works. Really. Don't fret about the Vanilla/Sectorial stuff just yet. You can play around with the Army Builder to see the possibilities when the time comes.
How many boxes did they bring? That one display had 125 in the top photo, and less than 27 in the bottom photo. So at least 100 sold on day one. And probably close to that many alt-Pennys.
Looking at the link Red Harvested posted, it is Second edition since they do not have the new weapon ranges and Camo still fires first in surprise instead at the same time at -3 from what the leak was.
Yar, 2E rules. Maybe 3E QS comes next week, after GenCon. They are apparently ready to go.
So, I hear both Penthesilea and Icestorm have sold out. That weeping you hear is CB, because they didn't bring enough stock. There are also tears of joy mixed in. Wow. Day and a half to sell out.
O:I is the ideal launch point to jump into infinity. PanO & Nomads are the most popular factions. They're also a fairly representative sample of the universe. You get units from all the current sectorials (3 for PanO, 2 for Nomads) so you can branch out from this box with ease.
Icestorm will be our first glimpse of N3.
Don't try to learn the 2nd edition rules.
So many new rules & erratas have been heaped upon 2nd edition. Why bother navigating that twisted web when it will all be streamlined in N3? Not to mention the translation issues we've had to wrangle with in 2nd edition.
Unless you have a store to go play at, the hardest component to find will be a friend willing to learn the game with you or split the box (if youre willing to share).
Considering they had nothing like this before, it's the obvious choice for newbloods.
Infinity is complicated. Its intricacies are what make it delightful, but it'll be easier to learn in baby steps.
You won't be an expert after one game, two games, five games ... Hell I still discover new evil strategies after 2 years while I continue to analyze all the army lists & contemplate the maddening rule interactions.
Wow when I got there around 10-10:30 that pallet had like two rows maybe, unless I saw a different pallet. They were out of penny and the bolt but that saves money.
Have you got good shots of yojimbo yet? I took a couple if no one else has yet. Both display boards are wonderful and these models are truly gorgeous up close!
Looking forward to a learn to play tomorrow. I saw Carlos but I only talked to a cashier.
So this product was limited to 3000 copies, and sold 12.5% within a single day to convention-goers that had to physically be within a certain geographical location?
Absolutionis wrote: So this product was limited to 3000 copies, and sold 12.5% within a single day to convention-goers that had to physically be within a certain geographical location?
5000 copies in the first run and they said if it depending on how it sells, they might do a second run. I think it is a good sign a second run wouldn't go to waste.
Nothing confirmed yet, of course. But the potential for another run hasn't been ever shot down.
CB is a small company in an even smaller niche market. This much is made obvious if you've ever had a missing piece and had a hand-written package sent over to you all the way from Spain. They likely ordered a batch of 5000 for the first run knowing that such a unique product (by CB standards) is a huge risk. If this boxed set nets them a ton of profit, they'd be foolish not to order another batch assuming they can reliably sell the products in the long run after the initial hype and veteran Infinity players have bought their product.
Absolutionis wrote: Nothing confirmed yet, of course. But the potential for another run hasn't been ever shot down.
Bostria has confirmed the 5000 only quite a few times.
And also appaently said quite a few times that they might do more runs depending on this run which might, or might not, include the CSU model. Everything he's said about how limited, or not, the box is has been offhand remarks in interviews, which I think is one of the primary things pissing people off about it.
Without knowing anything about CBs supply chain, and production capacity, its hard to know how valid the '5000 only' claim is.
Bostria has commented that this volume was expected to last until at least the middle of next year based on their projections. If that isn't the case, and it sells out much more quickly, you have to think that they have some planning in place in order to produce more.
As someone else mentioned above CB is still not a massive company. They couldn't make 10 or 15,000 of these boxsets immediately on a wing and a prayer, because if they only sold half of them it could hamstring them financially. But, at the same time, I think it's a bit silly to think that they are going to say "NO THAT'S IT" if these are sold out by October. They can obviously produce the miniatures in-house, it would just be a case of getting printing done for rules, boxes etc. - as said, it's hard to know exactly without knowing the details of their supply chain, but you have to think that they are business-savvy enough to know that if it sells out quickly then it's in their interests to make more of them.
Pacific wrote: Without knowing anything about CBs supply chain, and production capacity, its hard to know how valid the '5000 only' claim is.
Bostria has commented that this volume was expected to last until at least the middle of next year based on their projections. If that isn't the case, and it sells out much more quickly, you have to think that they have some planning in place in order to produce more.
As someone else mentioned above CB is still not a massive company. They couldn't make 10 or 15,000 of these boxsets immediately on a wing and a prayer, because if they only sold half of them it could hamstring them financially. But, at the same time, I think it's a bit silly to think that they are going to say "NO THAT'S IT" if these are sold out by October. They can obviously produce the miniatures in-house, it would just be a case of getting printing done for rules, boxes etc. - as said, it's hard to know exactly without knowing the details of their supply chain, but you have to think that they are business-savvy enough to know that if it sells out quickly then it's in their interests to make more of them.
We have requested a significant chunk of that 5000 so I would hope that there are more. All games need an introductory product at a good price to have any chance of gaining traction. The Icestorm box seems to have hit a sweet spot and really driven interest. Converting lots of potential Infinity players to buyers.
Pacific wrote: Maybe that's the kind of thing you could find out Rich, sure they would let you know if you asked nicely?
I imagine the guys and gals at CB are rushed off their feet at the moment, so might be a while.
CB are one of the companies in this business that really stand out with regards to dealing with as a retailer. They have real Integrity and always do what they say they will.
In Greek mythology, the Dactyls (from Greek Δάκτυλοι "fingers") were the archaic mythical race of small phallic male beings associated with the Great Mother, whether as Cybele or Rhea.
NEW COMBINED ARMY!
NEW USARIADNA GRUNTS!
From Mayacast(Ademaru is quoting them on the official Infinity forums):
Ah, got it. So an August release is September here. Very stoked for those models, I slipped them into the schedule for the second wave of models I'm having commissioned
Mayacast has uploads from the seminar on their FB page.
Those USAraidna Grunts look superb. I can't wait to start picking them up!
I had started to pick up some CA with the old box set, and thought I had decided to go MAF, but those new EI units look great also. I think I may wait until that sectorial hits the beached and pick them up instead.
Who am I kidding.. I'll start picking up both at some point...
There are tons of new digital sculpts on the slideshows from Mayacast. The new Maghariba Guard looks like a giant mechanical scorpion.
Those new Combined are pretty incredible. Are the Unidrons a new sectorial for Combined? Are these supposed to be the main Combined forces arriving in the Human Sphere?
Looks like I'm going to need to get some of those TAGs pretty soon. That redesigned Mag Guard is neat. I kind of wish they classed it as a new TAG though so you could field it along with the old version.
I guess the EI organics are co-opted Tohaa? That's a little disappointing, but man, they look cool.
Really going to have to get those new Yu Jing figures. Especially the Tiger Soldiers (who hopefully get more than three sculpts this time around)
Rolt wrote: That combined army starter set looks pretty ace, might have to start getting into the CA at this rate.
Also not to bug, but does anyone know when the cut-off date for the Op:Icestorm gencon bundle is?
Thought it was available until the end of the month. Not sure of that at all but the [Aug 31st] on the Corvus Belli site leads me to believe this is the case.
Edit: Would still grab it asap, just to be sure.
And yes on the Combined Army starter. Will have to grab that if the models match the artwork well enough.
Damn, pocketbook is gonna be hurting pretty hard with all these coming out :( Oh well, whoever says money can't buy happiness clearly isn't a wargamer!
New dog warriors are pretty much exactly what I wanted and didn't get the first time they released, gonna go GREAT with the Underfire Wargaming figs and the confrontation wolfen. It's a good time to be a fan of werewolves!
Kaysim Beg is pretty fantastic as well. Much as I loved the monocycles, all the new Kum are just awesome. USAriadna, new Hac Tao and Invincibles, all of it is looking good.
Not sold on the new Maghariba Guard tho. Looks cool at first glance, but it's way too obviously techno-scorpion for my tastes.
Wow, MA5 -12 for enemy to hit, +1B, +3 to Hit, +4DAM, and special rules. Now just need to see how hard/easy getting into CC will be, but they should wreak face when they get there.
I love the new Tiger Soldier design. I am going to buy so many of them.
And those Zu Yong stats are actually quite surprising.
27 is a bit higher than I would have wanted, and it does look like those may be the N3 stats (since they include Kinematica). But they managed a sub-30 cost without making it frenzied or impetuous which is definitely something to stand up and applaud (I don't think anyone foresaw PH12 for a dump stat). At 26-27 points, they will work well as a large link. Their heavy weapon options are quite reasonable as well (love the automed HMG, and the fact that they get HMGs for 1.5SWC). They also have an FO option which is always a nice perk.
I'll definitely have to see the rest of the Invincible Army before making a final decision. But considering a lot of Yu Jing HI is probably going to see a nice price-drop in N3, them not being 24-25 might not actually be notices. If the rest of our elite HI drops to the mid-50's then it kind of makes up the difference. But either way, the Zu Yong is a very good choice in the vanilla list as-is (whereas the versions a lot of community members, myself included, were mostly going to be only really useful in the sectorial). But I think I am happy to finally have a nice cross-section of "line infantry" HI that is cheap enough to have the name. I think I am a fan of the Zu Yong profile, now I just need a box or two of 'em.
And if these are the N3 stats, then we just got a lot of relative point cost info on several weapons. The MULTI rifle has come down in cost, as has the missile launcher, and even with the boost the boarding shotgun is now a point cheaper than the combi instead of the same cost (I think this is still quite good even if it got a boost). It even looks like the HMG came down in price a bit (+8 points instead of +9 from a combi). And it is hard to tell, but the Spitfire may have also gotten cheaper (dunno what e/m grenades add, but the Spitfire is definitely less than its 2nd Edition +7 cost unless those grenades are adding a lot). So that is definitely an interesting teaser if these are the N3 stats.
And my friend should be very happy about the new CA starter, that thing is the .
But back to stare at the new Tiger Soldier for me...
Even though I am completely in love with the oldschool Mag, I gotta say the Crazy-Scorpion-Robot-Of-Death is totally rockin' it in my book. It looks like it'll be a bitch to get together, but I will have it as soon as it comes out.
The new Hassassin unit is... uhh... yeah, whatever. What was wrong with my Muyibs? I guess they're Light Infantry, so it gives the Bahram list a better option if they want something a little more Elite than just taking Ghulams or whatever. I don't like my Assassins having faces, put your mask down sweetheart.
The USA guys are gonna be added to my Ariadna guys for sure, ESPECIALLY if they all look like that. That is badass.
Pretty much all of that is sweet, the weird Tohaa faction pushes all of my buttons in the right way, the CA stuff is hot, and the Yu Jing stuff looks beefy.
So long as they tell you the final values at each level (as well as individual level values) the MA thing should be fine.
What the real important bit will be is seeing whether they get these bonuses in hand-to-hand regardless of what the enemy's ARO choice is. One of the big things about close combat skills was that they were 100% negated by the other guy declaring a shoot action against you.
If they impose these penalties and get these bonuses just for charging in, then that makes things really interesting. And they will basically need to for that burst-mod to really make the difference (since my guess is the CCW will be burst 2).
I guess we'll see, but those changes have the potential to make CC specialists quite worthwhile. Though we will need to see what the Assault rule is (the one on the Father Knight) since I have a guess that it may be important for close-combat focused troops.
I hope that once I put my Knight/Joan (maybe) on table I'd feel to have a chance against MA 3 specialist.
Interestingly enough Kirpal with E/M (anyone doubts he shall not have it ?) could be interesting against new Invincible profile or something that has BTS 3 but multiple structures or wounds.
Currently it's not available in either the QK nor Hassassin sectorials. Flavor-wise it's attached to the Haqqislam army proper and the Ghulam.
The Khanates are rather disorganized and consist of bikers and skirmishers. The Maghariba is probably going to be part of the Caliphate sectorial (if any). It's the most high-tech of all the sectorials. Both the Khanate and Caliphate sectorials don't exist in game rules (yet).
I dunno if it's just me, but I really wish that new Maghariba was an entirely new unit. It doesn't even look like it has the same armament. I would have preferred it be a TAG for the Khanate rather than outright replace the old Mag.
To be fair they might have changed the armament slightly. It makes sense that only the Caliphate get a TAG as they're the hi tech part of Haqq. And as much as I like the old Mag, I think it needed an update to for in with the newer style, which this completely does.
The current Maghariba has a Multi HMG and Heavy Grenade Launcher. That looks exactly like what the concept art is equipped with.
They just replaced the phallic old HMG with the modern HMG and upsized it a lot.
The Heavy Grenade Launcher was changed significantly, but it still looks like a launcher of canisters. It went from a tube-launcher to a MLRS-like pod launcher. It even makes a bit of sense considering the grenades are lobbed.
I just wonder where the flamethrower is going to go.
Hmm. Looked more like a missile launcher than a grenade launcher to me. Does the new one have arms on the front of it still? I'd imagine that's where it's flamethrower would be.
That Hassassin Govad*? Practicing Tai Chi? I'll have to see the actual mini of the Mag Guard... And hope it fits on a 55mm base. Oh, whom do I kid. I want it. Scorpion tank FTW.
So, Magno el Loco gets a mini. Lol. Will it be the LE with the N3 book?
Lots of nice toys for Yu Jing. That's good.
No word on N3's release date? Aww...
Apparently Govad is the Persian word for wind. If that helps.
That is Magno from the Infinity forums. The guy Bostria referred to as loco (but in a nice way) during the Ficzone presentation. He is Infinity's #1 fan and runs the GenCon Tournament.
As long as we get a WarCor mini at some point, let the WarCor guys have this one.
bantha_beast wrote: Interesting. Looks like some of the units in the new CA starter are Tohaa from the Tohaa Trihedron. I thought their weapons looked different!
I'm just wondering if this is confirmed (sorry, beginning of the school year makes it hard to keep track)? I was thinking the Umbra Leg(q?)ates looked cool but very Tohaa like which concerned me. If he is from the Trihedron, that would be awesome. I'm all for more cool aliens.
And I have to resist starting a Yu Jing Invincible army...
What's the Tohaa Trihedron? I think that those tron-esque guys are co-opted Tohaa working for the EI, kind of like Ko-Dali.
I thought I'd seen a WarCors with a helmet. So is the helmet one going to be a regular release with the boonie hat version as an exclusive? Kind of like how the Authorized Bounty Hunter exclusive had his face exposed while the retail one had the mask on?
And for complete dummies (hi! ): does that essentially boil down to having Tohaa elements as part of CA?
More detail to be found in the two most recent books, I take it?
plastictrees wrote: What's up with the new Combined box? That's a new sectoral for them then?
The box is the new generic CA starter pack. The previous one was discontinued when the Morat starter was released, because the previous CA starter had Morat miniatures that where resculpt for the Morat starter. So this box is not sectorial, but as with all the starters, and since it hasn't Morat and Shasvastii, likely some of that miniatures belong to a new different sectorial, to be developed in the future.
plastictrees wrote: Infinity is about to hit the "I want everything!" threshold for me.
PanO and CA where the armies I disliked the most. Well, not anymore. THANK YOU CB
Barzam wrote: What's the Tohaa Trihedron? I think that those tron-esque guys are co-opted Tohaa working for the EI, kind of like Ko-Dali.
IIRC the Trihedron is a secret society portion of the Tohaa, the seedy underbelly; like Hydra being hidden in Shield. They could be co-opted like you said, which was cool. I was just afraid it wouldn't be a Tohaa just look very Tohaa. I like a lot of their designs and would hate for them to repeat similar themes across two different alien races.
Bolognesus wrote: And for complete dummies (hi! ): does that essentially boil down to having Tohaa elements as part of CA?
More detail to be found in the two most recent books, I take it?
The only real information is in Campaign: Paradiso regarding the Tohaa.
Acheron Falls will almost certainly elaborate some more and N3 will probably introduce the Trihedron elements.
Thanks.
So N3 won't replace the existing (other, non-rulebook) books, but it *will* contain new information and units? So we'll be seeing those juicy new CA models statted out in a few months, without having to wait for Acheron Falls? Cool.
If they're coming out with new sectorials in Acheron Falls, I do hope they put the rules for link teams and such there as well so you don't need to reference the wiki or another book as a new player.
I'll try to make the photos I took available as soon as I hit some better internet. Even got to take one with Angel. Was gonna try to talk shop about airbrushes since he had an iwata out but things were quite busy.
Regarding CA and updated/new models... are the Shasvastii safe for a while? I had a spitfire Gwailos on my L2P infinity CA team, and he totally wrecked the enemy ariadnan forces. Having cover while advancing was killer, and the model was neat.. just wondering if they're sticking around for awhile?
Ahh I'll have to see if timeline then. Gwailos? I wanna get the spitfire guy just cause he was kicking ass so fast he forgot to take names, making the poor Lt Skiavoros and his plasma gun look bad.
Cool. Thanks . After seeing how fun the gwailos was, and how fun a link team sounds, and seeing Barzams Sphinx... maybe it won't be Morats that get CA hooks into me.
Oh the second thing is one of those link-capable not-the-same-thing-but-almost units? Or a leader? Like Kusanagi and moiras? I need to look into the shasvastii sectoral now for sure many thanks.
I watched through the video and was surprised that breaker pistols are B2 viral pistol and forward observing allows other models to get +3 bs when targeting the marked model.
I dunno, I kinda like the old maghariba. It looks friendly. it's something I would cuddle at night and call little pumplekins.
The new one is the kind that you name War Missile or something.
Also, new jannisarry just caught my eye. So I guess they're remaking the old HMG model among other things? I don't see the need to remake the Rifle one, it looks fine as it is. Or are they just introducing a new color scheme for them?
Trauma Doc and Joan looks superb. Will wait for their release, then maybe I can start PanO. The Tikbalang will make or break my decision, however.
If both combatants crit in a Face-to-Face roll, they're both nullified.
No cumulative modifiers can ever go better/worse than +12 or -12
Ability: Assault
Father Knight has this
-3 on CC roll, but if you start the order with LOS of your intended target, you may move full distance (4-4) to reach CC range.
Ability: Natural-Born Warrior
No stat boosts. Nullifies all Martial Arts and Berserker abilities of opponents.
Ability: Martial Arts
You do not gain the modifiers of all prior levels. Active player chooses what level of MA they're using (equal to or lesser) and the ARO player gets to then choose knowing that information. This explains the awkward complexity of the chart.
No more surprise attack.
Ability: Hacker
Similar to Martial Arts, there will be a chart with different "programs" to choose from. This will be explained more in the next Infinity theme week.
New Maghariba looks absolutely fantastic. I'm glad I still have the old one, so having both I'll have some choice (and maybe they will be AVA 2 in Caliphate).
So they've renamed Izzat Beg to Kaysim Beg? Seems unnessecary, but okay.
The Hassassin unit looks great, as does the Tohaa tracker unit.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
heartserenade wrote: Also, new jannisarry just caught my eye. So I guess they're remaking the old HMG model among other things? I don't see the need to remake the Rifle one, it looks fine as it is. Or are they just introducing a new color scheme for them?
Guess it's just a new colour scheme and the rifle is on the concept art for completeness. The armour looks almost identical, and the rifle model in the starter is fairly new, so I don't see a reason to resculpt it. Unl;ess they're going to do a link team box to go along with the HMG.
-Loki- wrote: New Maghariba looks absolutely fantastic. I'm glad I still have the old one, so having both I'll have some choice (and maybe they will be AVA 2 in Caliphate).
So they've renamed Izzat Beg to Kaysim Beg? Seems unnessecary, but okay.
Beg means commander so this is a new guy. Also his load out is different so the question is will Kum be the first unit to have two named characters from it? Did Izzat die? What's the fluff behind this? Are they competing personalities? Only time will tell.
I hope the Maghariba will be AVA 2 as well not that I think that will make a good list but it would be fun.
If both combatants crit in a Face-to-Face roll, they're both nullified.
No cumulative modifiers can ever go better/worse than +12 or -12
Ability: Assault -3 on CC roll, but if you start the order with LOS of your intended target, you may move full distance (4-4) to reach CC range.
I might be missing some information. How is this different from the current rules, where you move 4-4 to reach the base to base contact with the opponent's model ?
If assault is half the order it would be handy ability.
heartserenade wrote: Also, new jannisarry just caught my eye. So I guess they're remaking the old HMG model among other things? I don't see the need to remake the Rifle one, it looks fine as it is. Or are they just introducing a new color scheme for them?
The rifle loadout is already in the starter set, they're just redoing the HMG version to match the look of the rifle one. Personally though, I prefer the old Janissary design. If fits their fluff a lot better. Much like the newsculpt rifle Janissary, I'll be using this new HMG version as an Ahl Fassed instead.
If both combatants crit in a Face-to-Face roll, they're both nullified.
No cumulative modifiers can ever go better/worse than +12 or -12
Ability: Assault
-3 on CC roll, but if you start the order with LOS of your intended target, you may move full distance (4-4) to reach CC range.
I might be missing some information. How is this different from the current rules, where you move 4-4 to reach the base to base contact with the opponent's model ?
If assault is half the order it would be handy ability.
That was my assumption, it would allow you to use both movement values in a single short order to reach CC. Otherwise it's not changing anything.
Currently you get to use one order to short skill to move, another short skill to move into base to base contact but that's it. You don't get to CC then, that would require another order being spent.
In 3rd with Assault you get to spend one order to move and move again and still do CC but at a -3. Its also one of the things on the CC chart so you can't do it and Martial Arts or say Berserk.
So like Knight and I assumed - Assault is basically a 'charge', where you can use 1 short order to move both MOV values, then still have a short order to make a CC attack, at -3.
I'm a bit iffy about the new CC rules, and if profiles aren't being updated in N3 then it leaves some current units sitting in an awkward place (Oniwaban, Domaru etc).
Or maybe the rules in HS will stay the same, but the profiles get updated?
Daba wrote: I'm a bit iffy about the new CC rules, and if profiles aren't being updated in N3 then it leaves some current units sitting in an awkward place (Oniwaban, Domaru etc).
Or maybe the rules in HS will stay the same, but the profiles get updated?
All profiles will be updated, it's simply not avoidable. Changes to the core rules will change the balance of every single unit.
I might be missing some information. How is this different from the current rules, where you move 4-4 to reach the base to base contact with the opponent's model ?
If assault is half the order it would be handy ability.
The difference is that what you say in Move Move into CC (two short movement skills) while Assault skill is a long order that in Move with both movement attributes combined and do a CC attack.
Assault is the much needed boost to CC's engagement range, hopefully it is very widespread on close combat units. I am of course wondering if you can stack multiple CC abilities from different sources though (don't think this was asked at the seminar). I know MA wont stack, but there are units like the Domaru with MA and Berzerk (and it may get Assault to boot). I could see wanting to stack those together to get some interesting effects.
And while, at first, I was a bit iffy on MA still being levelled, I liked Bostria's explanation of it. Seeing what your opponent chooses before choosing your response will lead to some interesting consequences.
That said, it kind of sounds like most weapons will be defaulting to B1, and that one die will be the norm. Though having a crit-range of greater than 5% does help alleviate that a little. It also sounds like they kept the "declare a shoot action as your ARO to negate close combat rules" thing which I admit I am not entirely a fan of. It means that camo and smoke cover will remain fairly common assault tools unless their is some overhaul to how ZoC awareness AROs are handled. It would be awesome if you could properly backstab a unit in CC.
And this also has me wondering if the surprise bonus from things like camo will come in to play with assault. That could be potentially interesting as well.
Either way, it does sound like they are at least giving close combat a real niche by making it a fairly reliable damage source if you can get in close. Not sure if this will be a true fix, but at the very least it sounds like there will be far more times when close combat will be worth it. So long as it remains fairly cheap, this should be quite alright.
And of course, the change to getting added burst from allies in combat has some very interesting consequences where multi-unit warbands and link-teams are concerned. Not much use to a lone CC specialist, but Assault Packs and the Chimera/Pupniks just got a huge boost.
Either way, the close combat changes are interesting and I can't wait to see more of the specifics.
Oh, and the Breaker Pistol being viral is more than I could have ever hoped for. Holy crap the Zu Zong HMG is going to be a nightmare.
And I only just noticed, but it looks like the Tiger Soldier is getting a Spitfire, that makes me happy with all these changes.
Do I get it right with MA you have to declare what kind of Lv you use and gain benefits of just one Lv?
Mini A is assaulted and declare lv1, charging mini B than declare his lv for MA and goes lv 3, so they use bonuses form declared lv and no other lv even when they have LV5 both?
CB got me all exited again. Everything sounds so promising. I like how they've redesigned cc ruels. Pity that natural born warrior still nullifies every martial art. I hoped just for some abilities reduction.
New Yu jing toys look marvellous. I like that tiger troops are fully armoured now. It helps to unify the look of the whole army. I just hope terracotta sectorial will be more flexible to play with than JSA one.
Can't wait for another infinity week when they will show how exactly the new hacking works.
Do I get it right with MA you have to declare what kind of Lv you use and gain benefits of just one Lv?
Mini A is assaulted and declare lv1, charging mini B than declare his lv for MA and goes lv 3, so they use bonuses form declared lv and no other lv even when they have LV5 both?
That seems to be the case. With CC values likely being high, limiting crits will be pretty important. So L1, L3, and L5 appear to be pretty good on that front. With L5 being the best pure debuff (and this is before we know what it does as its special).
L2 is probably going to be popular on Viral, DA, and EXPCCWs since it boosts all the dice rather than just hoping for getting an initial crit. This will be handy on units looking to deal with TAGs since HI can get up to damage 17 with these suckers (even pretty useful on e/m CCWs). Probably not terribly useful against other MA practitioners unless you are allowed to stack from other sources (if you are, the Domaru definitely has something going for it).
L4 is probably going to become the new L3 in terms of being the close combat skill. Either way things like Saito Togan (EXPCCW), and the Oniwaban/Kitsune got pretty interesting with this option.
I wonder if mono is getting a rework. As of now, using them with MA1 and MA2 is kind of a trap since they have a static damage. Could still stay the same but it would definitely need a discount since most units with it will only be able to use it with MA3+.
Pacific wrote: Think there is going to be a lot of stuff going into my painting queue this year..
heartserenade wrote: I dunno, I kinda like the old maghariba. It looks friendly. it's something I would cuddle at night and call little pumplekins.
Haha! Quote of the month. Actually, quote of 2014
I agree though, the current Maghariba does have a really nice look to it.
Really though, I've been wanting to buy one for a long time but alas, it's not something my army really needs and my growing Lannister army needs some attention, so...
Tohaa are pretty evil themselves. The Trident aren't exactly nice, and the race as a whole have decided humanity will be the target after the Combined Army. They're playing us off against the Combined Army for help for their own interests.
They don't need defectors to get more sinister black ops type units. What we've seen so far have just been the main army. These guys could be more akin to their version of the Hassassin or Black Hand.
I'm hoping we're going to be throwing more than one dice against one dice in CC. One against one is fairly risky and order consuming, should I had the B advantage I'd be fairly tempted to run my Knight even against higher MA specialists in certain cases. It's still rather silly that I have to put trust in armour instead of more useful equipment.
Knight wrote: I'm hoping we're going to be throwing more than one dice against one dice in CC. One against one is fairly risky and order consuming, should I had the B advantage I'd be fairly tempted to run my Knight even against higher MA specialists in certain cases. It's still rather silly that I have to put trust in armour instead of more useful equipment.
In the gencon video carlos confirms that CC will still be a face to face using one dice but some of the MA levels let you add dice and i think friendly units in base contact also let you add dice.
The tohaa in the CA starter are from the Trihedron which are conquered parts of the Tohaa empire that now fights with the CA. So there will be some tohaa/ CA grudge matches to look forward to!
bantha_beast wrote: The tohaa in the CA starter are from the Trihedron which are conquered parts of the Tohaa empire that now fights with the CA. So there will be some tohaa/ CA grudge matches to look forward to!
ah okay thank you. Sounds pretty cool, and they look really sinister. The other guy in the starter (hooded guy with the force choke pose) is a new race I think I read, so looking forward to reading more about them.
So I think we've seen most all of this but here's my gallery of Infinity photos from GenCon2014: http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/images-70053-42674_Gencon2014-Infinity.html My L2P session was held by the tournament tables, I wanted to shoot them all but I only had time to get this excellent interior/boarding action table that was next to us.
I'm sure people have been unboxing icestorm for awhile now (and hell, Carlos did it in the BoW video) but I'm still going to take pictures when I do so and add them to another gallery.
Wow, what a table! Love the different grafitti on it, that must have been a joy to play on - was anyone able to play, or were they just doing demo games on it?
Someone was moving models around and giving a few people the general idea of things, but I didn't see them playing. The crashed ship board was actually getting a demo game, but it was too crowded at the time for photos and I didn't want to be rude.
Knight wrote: I'm hoping we're going to be throwing more than one dice against one dice in CC. One against one is fairly risky and order consuming, should I had the B advantage I'd be fairly tempted to run my Knight even against higher MA specialists in certain cases. It's still rather silly that I have to put trust in armour instead of more useful equipment.
There appear to be a few things at work here that make it a bit harder to conclusively tell right now.
First, MA specialists will be getting CC values that are high enough to have a wide critical range. The Father Knight was pointed at as a prime example of the new paradigm. CC23 isn't a curiosity in N3, it will be a common value of CC specialists. So right off the bat a unit like the Father Knight will crit on a 17+ regardless of anything else. This is a pretty big change since one of the big problems with CC was that it was only one die and it was emminently possible to miss (especially with MA3 practicioners).
Running some quick numbers through a calculator shows that the boosted crit range actually makes a single die fairly reliable compared to a potential higher burst (ran it as Father Knight vs. Mobile Brigada and rushing in to assault, through the open and right in to the MB's face netted a 60% chance of a wound vs. a 14% chance of the ARO succeeding; compared to sitting back and shooting a Breaker Pistol resulting only in ~40% chance of 1 wound with the same rate of success for the MB's ARO). So even without any additional CC-boosting rules (outside of Assault, but using that proved to increase the risk to the Father Knight by about 5% and brought the wound-rate down to about the same as the pistol) it is actually in a good place for an assault when it is close.
I repeat, being within 4" of a model and charging through the open now appears to actually result in a good chance to hurt something (this is not so in 2nd Edition, it only happens in extreme edge cases). So long as they make good and give all of the CC-specialists a basic CC value that can crit, things will be very interesting.
The second bit is that ganging up on things and higher levels of MA actually grant higher burst. A model with MA4 is going to be a nightmare if it also comes with a CC of 21 or more. And cheap warbands can gang up on models to gain additional dice. Assault Packs and Chimera/Pupniks will be evil in assault.
A single die was mostly an issue when CC values didn't exceed 20, because most specialist had MA3 and relied on killing a target outright with DA, EXP, or Viral. If they wiffed then they tended to get crunched (and they were outright bad against hard multi-wound targets). And the other issue was that many of them had camo, and got more benefit out of staying back and getting a nearly uncontested round of fire against their enemy before they could react. The latter isn't even a thing in N3.
And Berzerk could rarely help because AROing a shoot action would negate it. But starting with a CC value higher than 20 means you start with a boosted crit range, and crits are some of the most powerful effects in the game. This shifts CQB stuff back in to close combat's favour in extremely close ranges.
No question, it is still hard to get there and will always remain so (and this is why it will never be more powerful than shooting), but now, when a CC specialist is really close to something it doesn't default to its rifle because assault will just get it killed. In the new Infinity where it is much harder to get a completely one-sided matchup due to camo and other factors, it means that things will need to get re-evaluated. And if you spend a bit of time to set things up for the kill, a CC specialist appears to be a very reliable way of doing a lot of damage. CC weapons will be able to break the damage 15 ceiling with special ammo. There are HI that will be able to charge in with a high crit chance, EXP ammo, and 17 damage. That is enough to squash a TAG with little actual risk in return. So CC's new niche appears to be reliably high levels of damage, it remains niche because it takes a load of orders to get there.
We'll need to see a lot more to know if these measures will work, but I will admit, the quick numbers on the Father Knight vs. MB matchup surprised me. Can't wait to see what somewhat squishier CC units look like though. But the Domaru is looking like it might end up being a nasty piece of work (I really hope it can stack multiple CC abilities from different sources, charging in with a -3 from Assault, a +6 from Berzerk, and boosting +3 damage with MA2 to get a net +3 to-hit on a DMG 17 EXPCCW may be a very nice proposition if it has a CC of 23 or higher).
I'll be interested to see how existing units change (especially since most of my skirmishers are ostensibly CC specialists).
The tohaa in the CA starter are from the Trihedron which are conquered parts of the Tohaa empire that now fights with the CA. So there will be some tohaa/ CA grudge matches to look forward to!
The rumor for the new sectorial fluff, is they are a Sepsitor force. So brainwahed warrior now 100% loyal to the CA and their EI overlord.
Edit: As for Mono CCW unless they make it non-crit, you would never take the +DAM MA levels anyways, you want the +Hit MA levels.
I wasn't a fan of Ko Dali's "wings" when that miniature was introduced, and I am not a fan of more CA miniatures getting them now. It looks great but way too bendy and breaky.
The same with Naish Sheskiin's staff for example, and most of the sniper rifles out there. Corvus Belli should stay away from the thin stuff because their material/scale doesn't lend itself for that (IMHO).
TBD wrote: I wasn't a fan of Ko Dali's "wings" when that miniature was introduced, and I am not a fan of more CA miniatures getting them now. It looks great but way too bendy and breaky.
The same with Naish Sheskiin's staff for example, and most of the sniper rifles out there. Corvus Belli should stay away from the thin stuff because their material/scale doesn't lend itself for that (IMHO).
I don't agree, Infinity model would look stupid if the bulked up, it a big enough problem with oversized weapons as is.
Wallace with Highlanders was rather nasty before, especially if opponent took 8 of them, now he's just bananas. Possible Shaolin link team should also be rather brutal. I'm really looking forward to N3 Daturazi too.
I wouldn't want to run Father Knight against a Ninja or MA 3+. If he uses assault he'll be hitting on 17, never mind the Ninja who will have 20 to hit, under current status. Seems better to get a flank, close range and liberally apply shotgun to the face.
Against other units, frankly he seems like an overkill and how many Nomads run Riot Grrls and Mobile Brigada in general army? Nomads with their techno and stealth sorcery.
Again not to sound too down, because I like what I've heard about CC rules so far.
To expand a bit on Ronin_ex's post, I've been running some numbers based on CC troopers with CC23 and the MA3 modifiers - and even in the worst case it's still pretty reliable with one die v. one die.
CC23 with MA3
+3 CC but no modifier to the enemy because they're shooting.
No visual protection at all, not even Mimetism, let alone TO Camo or ODD.
DAM12 normal ammo, so no special CCW.
Charging a line trooper with BS11 and a Light Shotgun (for +6 BS).
11.5% the CC trooper takes a wound.
53% chance the line trooper takes a wound.
[url="http://infinity-math.appspot.com/?attacker_action=attack&attacker_target=20&attacker_target_mod=6&attacker_dice=1&attacker_damage=12&attacker_ammo=0&attacker_armor=1&defender_action=attack&defender_target=11&defender_target_mod=6&defender_damage=13&defender_ammo=0&defender_armor=1
"]Infinity Math link[/url].
Start adding anything like Camo or a CCW with DA/Viral/EXP ammo and it's vicious even with one die.
Just to shift it even more in favour of the CC trooper, all the existing dice calculators are based on 2nd edition handling of attributes over twenty - Bostria said they now add the amount over twenty to the die roll meaning that the modified CC26 trooper is adding six to their roll and can't roll lower than seven.
Although I do agree, you wouldn't want to send the Father-Knight in against an actual CC specialist. Joan, on the other hand...
Chemical Cutthroat wrote: Even though I am completely in love with the oldschool Mag, I gotta say the Crazy-Scorpion-Robot-Of-Death is totally rockin' it in my book. It looks like it'll be a bitch to get together, but I will have it as soon as it comes out.
The new Hassassin unit is... uhh... yeah, whatever. What was wrong with my Muyibs? I guess they're Light Infantry, so it gives the Bahram list a better option if they want something a little more Elite than just taking Ghulams or whatever. I don't like my Assassins having faces, put your mask down sweetheart.
The USA guys are gonna be added to my Ariadna guys for sure, ESPECIALLY if they all look like that. That is badass.
Pretty much all of that is sweet, the weird Tohaa faction pushes all of my buttons in the right way, the CA stuff is hot, and the Yu Jing stuff looks beefy.
Tis a great time to be an Infinity fan!
The thing wrong with Muyibs and right with the new unit are the weapon loadouts. The lady Hassassin has got an HMG, a ML and a Sniper Rifle on the Concept chart. All the things the Hassassin Bahram lacks.
The thing wrong with Muyibs and right with the new unit are the weapon loadouts. The lady Hassassin has got an HMG, a ML and a Sniper Rifle on the Concept chart. All the things the Hassassin Bahram lacks.
Bahram has fine load-outs (viral sniper, HRL, Ragik HMG...) What they need is another skirmisher. The Farzan is underwhelming. Either give him a few more load-outs, like repeaters or mines, or another skirmisher.
But I suspect this Govad will replace the Ghulam as the base LI choice.
I think we will need to consider CC in context with other rules, hacking and impersonation. Plus the forced LoF change rule, which I think may be gone or modified, given that Bostria (in the seminar) said a unit will always have a chance to do something. Probably the same for Sepsitor.
Next set of reveals will be in 2 weeks from Gutier, here in D.C.
Okay kids. So I'm finally back and I'm going to post just a few bullets before I take a big long nap. Some of it may be redundant, so I apologize if it is. I'm wiped the feth out:
- Icestorm should hit retail by the end of September. CB will be leaving preorders for the GenCon special online until the end of the month because of the unexpected popularity of the deal.
- N3 book should be out by November. It will be a two book package that will contain a hardcover fluff book and a soft cover rules manual for taking with you. I mentioned that a slip covered special edition with both in hardcover would do well, and I think they may investigate the possibility.
- Fernando, Bostria, and Angel are three of the nicest dudes I've ever met.
- Tabitha and her dad are also super nice. In addition to the bolt armor, they also created a "base" for tabitha to do the official shoot on because they wanted her to look like an actual model from the game and not a cheesecake version of the model.
- tabitha will be doing some Spanish events this year and will hopefully be making a return appearance to GenCon 2015.
- in addition to selling out at the CB booth, infinty sold extremely well at the warstore booth. We demoed for approximately 300 additional people over the weekend and the amount of Infinity sold was....significant.
- the raicho proving grounds even was a blast. Guillermo (who coincidently is the inspiration for the warcors model) basically DMed the event. All raichos had different melee attacks, power moves, and Multi raicho combos. It was awesome. I'll see if Guillermo will send me the file and post it here.
- Jay from Warsenal has upped his game significantly. In addition to making some incredible new pieces for retail, jay also ran a Morat prison escape scenario that involved a gigantic morat prison and each player using a single model. It was also very cool
Yeah Angel was awesome, I just wish I knew some Spanish so I could have spoken more with him.
I stayed away from the Raicho thing because I had no experience, probably for the best, but I saw it on the events list. Now I kind of want to do whatever they do next year after hearing you talk about it!
The tohaa in the CA starter are from the Trihedron which are conquered parts of the Tohaa empire that now fights with the CA. So there will be some tohaa/ CA grudge matches to look forward to!
The rumor for the new sectorial fluff, is they are a Sepsitor force. So brainwahed warrior now 100% loyal to the CA and their EI overlord.
Edit: As for Mono CCW unless they make it non-crit, you would never take the +DAM MA levels anyways, you want the +Hit MA levels.
Aha! Well that certainly makes for a more interesting CA starter, instead of the old 'stuff in random Morat and Shasvastii units' method.
IJW wrote: To expand a bit on Ronin_ex's post, I've been running some numbers based on CC troopers with CC23 and the MA3 modifiers - and even in the worst case it's still pretty reliable with one die v. one die.
CC23 with MA3
+3 CC but no modifier to the enemy because they're shooting.
No visual protection at all, not even Mimetism, let alone TO Camo or ODD.
DAM12 normal ammo, so no special CCW.
Charging a line trooper with BS11 and a Light Shotgun (for +6 BS).
11.5% the CC trooper takes a wound.
53% chance the line trooper takes a wound.
[url="http://infinity-math.appspot.com/?attacker_action=attack&attacker_target=20&attacker_target_mod=6&attacker_dice=1&attacker_damage=12&attacker_ammo=0&attacker_armor=1&defender_action=attack&defender_target=11&defender_target_mod=6&defender_damage=13&defender_ammo=0&defender_armor=1
"]Infinity Math link[/url].
Start adding anything like Camo or a CCW with DA/Viral/EXP ammo and it's vicious even with one die.
Just to shift it even more in favour of the CC trooper, all the existing dice calculators are based on 2nd edition handling of attributes over twenty - Bostria said they now add the amount over twenty to the die roll meaning that the modified CC26 trooper is adding six to their roll and can't roll lower than seven.
Although I do agree, you wouldn't want to send the Father-Knight in against an actual CC specialist. Joan, on the other hand...
Man, I didn't even think about the implications of the new over 20 rule. Damn, that is nasty. They actually fix the issue with a high range of variance by actually shifting the specialist's roll range up! So they will win more often than they would even now because they aren't even rolling in the same range...
Yeah wow, that's a pretty hefty boost.
Also, the implication of the new critical rules means that if two CC specialists get in to it, then it will result in a pretty tense back and forth. MA3 and MA5 seem to be pretty important here. MA3 is balanced giving and taking a bit (probably safe if you choose first). MA5 will allow you to dump another practitioner low enough that they may not even have a high crit chance.
The cancelling crits actually fixes a lot of my issues with crit power without nerfing them. They are more powerful where they matter (close combat), but will be less earth-shattering in shooting (though the case in which both side roll a crit is pretty rare).
Either way, the change to skills over 20 was a brilliant little bit of simplification (basically shifting gears and turning it in to a roll-over system) that manages to work pretty quickly while allowing it to boost close combat in to the niche of being a crit machine. I think having such a high kill-rate should help make things a bit more interesting.
I wonder what the average CC value range on specialists will be. Dare we hope that someone with CC30 shows up?
But a thought, would it potentially be worth risking the Chimera now to take advantage of her iKhol and Viral CCW since the viral would be getting bursts instead of just the DACCW?
I dunno, daccw plus two helper pupniks is probably enough in a lot of cases huh.
But a thought, would it potentially be worth risking the Chimera now to take advantage of her iKhol and Viral CCW since the viral would be getting bursts instead of just the DACCW?
I dunno, daccw plus two helper pupniks is probably enough in a lot of cases huh.
It might become worth it, depending on what happens with stat changes. Her natural born warrior removing enemy MA skills should still stack with iKhol, and with the pupniks helping her she'd probably be even more of a beast
But a thought, would it potentially be worth risking the Chimera now to take advantage of her iKhol and Viral CCW since the viral would be getting bursts instead of just the DACCW?
I dunno, daccw plus two helper pupniks is probably enough in a lot of cases huh.
It will depend on the target multi wound and NMI, Viral all the way. STR models like TAGs and REMDA is the better route.
Happy that I am branching my Morats out into the whole Ca faction And if the USAriadna Grunt is setting the tone for them I may be jumping ship into that faction as well.
NuclearMessiah wrote: And if the USAriadna Grunt is setting the tone for them I may be jumping ship into that faction as well.
Have a look at Foxtrots and Minutemen and see if they appeal, too
Why?
The sculpts are outdated(and truthfully, in the case of the Minuteman? It's an awful sculpt. Most people do not even realize that it is in fact a woman) and won't match the overhaul of the line that is coming.
NuclearMessiah wrote: And if the USAriadna Grunt is setting the tone for them I may be jumping ship into that faction as well.
Have a look at Foxtrots and Minutemen and see if they appeal, too
Why?
The sculpts are outdated(and truthfully, in the case of the Minuteman? It's an awful sculpt. Most people do not even realize that it is in fact a woman) and won't match the overhaul of the line that is coming.
He might have been suggesting it for this very reason - if the old models appeal to you, buy them before they get replaced.
Knights and Joan(s) might have gone through rather interesting transitions in N3. Changes to make them more attractive in ITS or there were changes to any future ITS scenarios.
Joan was never top tier but in N3 I'm hoping her CC, MA and whatever happened to inspiring leadership will maker her attractive choice. My whispering wish would be making her mobility armour to confer super jump ability and multiterrain. That would be magnificent. It's quite of a something to see your opponent's reaction when you roll 15 for initiative and say you've passed your roll. Saladin, Sun Tze, marvellous leaders but you don't expect from PanO to have rather high WIP on its lieutenant.
If the feel of the new climb and assault skill is to go by, I'd imagine it's going to be a long skill. Still very powerful for positioning and dodging fire lanes of opposition. Less for simple jump and shot.
I'm not sure why Super Jump would change that drastically. Regular Jump, on the other hand, looks almost guaranteed to change to being a long skill like Climb.
There are some aliens that fight for the Combined Army willingly, without being sepsitorised. It could be that these Tohaa believe in the aims and objective of the CA.
Although, I am kind of looking forward to reading about what will happen when Archaron Falls is released, and what kind of developments there are going to be in the background (specially, what other heroes of the Human Sphere have been 'turned'! )
Is it on record that Ko Dali was actually sepsitorised?
- the raicho proving grounds even was a blast. Guillermo (who coincidently is the inspiration for the warcors model) basically DMed the event. All raichos had different melee attacks, power moves, and Multi raicho combos. It was awesome. I'll see if Guillermo will send me the file and post it here.
Alpharius wrote: Are they a splinter, or have they been Sepsitorized?
Actually, do the Tohaa have 'cubes'?
Not only do Tohaa use cubes. There is a story in Paradiso were they send 2 cube copies of a improtant Tohaa through a wormhole to make sure 1 got there. Then download 1 of the cubes in to a new body and if both make it they destory the extra cube.
The Sepsitor is an alien nanotech weapon which can infiltrate the memory-backup Cubes that most Humans have installed, allowing the aliens to subvert the target completely into loyalty to the alien forces.
There are no known examples of someone being recovered from Sepsitorisation. There's even a Yu Jing character called Ko Dali who got taken over in the background and swapped faction in-game.
However the vast majority is in their books. N3 will be the latest step forward for the plot.
N3 is going to be the non-story changing rewrite of the fluff from the time peroid of the N2 book. So going back not forward, CB said they want to let new players that by the book read the fluff in the order they are meant to be read. N2/N3, HS, then Paradiso.
The Sepsitor is an alien nanotech weapon which can infiltrate the memory-backup Cubes that most Humans have installed, allowing the aliens to subvert the target completely into loyalty to the alien forces.
There are no known examples of someone being recovered from Sepsitorisation. There's even a Yu Jing character called Ko Dali who got taken over in the background and swapped faction in-game.
I love the language that they use in the books for this, 'corrupt' and 'possess' as the personality of the victim comes under outside control. It's known as voodoo-tech to the Human Sphere. They have no idea how it works, and it scares the hell out of them.
The Sepsitor is an alien nanotech weapon which can infiltrate the memory-backup Cubes that most Humans have installed, allowing the aliens to subvert the target completely into loyalty to the alien forces.
There are no known examples of someone being recovered from Sepsitorisation. There's even a Yu Jing character called Ko Dali who got taken over in the background and swapped faction in-game.
I love the language that they use in the books for this, 'corrupt' and 'possess' as the personality of the victim comes under outside control. It's known as voodoo-tech to the Human Sphere. They have no idea how it works, and it scares the hell out of them.
I thought it was Acheron Falls. As in the Acheron Blockade. Which protects the human sphere from the wormhole between Paradiso and the EI. So guess what happens when it falls!
For those who, like me, missed the convention, there is video up of the seminar Bostria did that generated all the pics from the last couple of pages. The link below should be to the first of four videos covering the company, new releases, and 3rd edition.
Pacific wrote: What was the name of the next campaign book, isn't it Archon Falls?
Will be interesting to see how it advances the plot, who Archon is and why he is falling
The Acheron Blockade is the giant fleet of ships and stations protecting the Human Sphere from the wormhole that the Combined Army comes through. All the CA units in the game are advanced scouts that made it through before the blockade was formed, or special forces that have infiltrated in spite of the blockade.
Bladerunner2019 wrote: It'll be nice to see old units get a new description blurb.
The antipodes page on the website is only one sentence!
The change to the Ghazi Muttawi'ah blurb was small but welcome. Changed them from being uncomfortably close to suicide bombers to being low profile intelligence operatives.
I thought the Mutts were supposed to be suicide bombers until the new versions were revealed. They certainly looked like they were supposed to be suicide bombers.
So, this afternoon, I just realized that the Umbra is not a corrupted Tohaa. That's a brand new CA race.
I'm really curious about those new CA Tohaa though. I want to know if they're working with the EI willingly, or if they've been brainwashed into working with it.
I'm also really curious if the EI just turned all of the Tohaa it captured into cannon fodder, or if it they're actually allowed to lead normal lives. From the sounds of the Exrah's blurbs, it sounds like there's an actual fully functional society within the EI's realm. Does the EI actually intend to make the Tohaa and humanity a part of this society, or are we all just going to be fodder for its war machine?
Barzam wrote: I thought the Mutts were supposed to be suicide bombers until the new versions were revealed. They certainly looked like they were supposed to be suicide bombers.
Not exactly suicide bombers. The EMP device was basically an EMP grenade strapped to their chest, but it didn't kill them. They just needed to get to point blank range. The new E/Marat profile removed that uncomfortable part of the rules, but their description still read like it. People seeking the eternal life granted by a cube running to point blank range to let off an EMP on electrical targets. Yeah.
The Hassassin Bahram fluff expanded them to being low profile communications and intelligence specialists who would pick up a chain rifle or shotgun if they needed to go active, and the new fluff has focused on that and thankfully dropped the old fluff about seeking eternal life by basically point blank EMPing things.
Which was always odd since EMP grenades are supposed to be thrown.
There was an interesting scifi question about the whole cube thing, and religious beliefs, but it's best not to try and explore that in the confines of a shooty game.
There was an interesting scifi question about the whole cube thing, and religious beliefs, but it's best not to try and explore that in the confines of a shooty game.
Oh, I dunno: Willingness to let the fluff have an actual impact on gameplay is one of the things that makes Infinity so cool. It works best as a narrative game not just a generic tournament system. While ITS games are fun for pick-ups, custom scenarios are really the most engaging way to experience the game. Good ones come down to epic last-ditch efforts etc., and have more to them than simply killing off the other side's toy soldiers. The Morat Prison Escape adventure that the Warsenal guys just ran at GenCon is a good example. So are the many great narrative campaigns that people cooked up before Paradiso was released (like Fix's stuff from up in Bellingham, Washington).
And the really good narratives are often about those techno-social hooks, like whether soldiers who are constantly reanimated after destruction suffer any lasting effects (or whether they will be great heroes still when they face true death, no cube to save them). A scenario with rampant Sepsitor effects going off would be interesting too.
BTW, not so deep in the fluff but:
Anyone who could get the rules for the Raicho-proving-ground scenario and publish them here would be owed a serious debt by the rest of the Infinity fans that couldn't make the con. I might have to modify it to be done by O-Yoroi, though. SAMURAI ROBOT MOSTER PUNCHOUT!
Sounds like a warband but regular and more pricey, it's cheap but to put in perspective. Fusilier costs 10 points, BS 12 and a rifle. I tend not put much trust in ARM and prefer to stack negative modifiers, if they really are 4-2 I'd be rather cool to see them on the opposite end, short ranged and unlike current WB more expensive and slower.
Also keep in mind that certain units are supposed to go down in points and a lot is still unknown. You purchase 3 grunts it could mean one or two less FO on table and FO seems really good option in new edition.
I think CB has re-evaluated the value of BS. Compare the new ORC to the new Mobile Brigada, Higher BS is the only reason I can see for that cost gap. 10 pts for arm 3 MI isn't too crazy if the BS is only 10 or so.
Henshini wrote: I think CB has re-evaluated the value of BS. Compare the new ORC to the new Mobile Brigada, Higher BS is the only reason I can see for that cost gap. 10 pts for arm 3 MI isn't too crazy if the BS is only 10 or so.
Aguaciles cost 10 per dude...and they BS11. As for new Orc he is BS 14 for 40pts and Mobile is BS 13 for...... 39! But I guess we pay for V:courage and flamethrower.
"Also keep in mind that certain units are supposed to go down in points and a lot is still unknown. You purchase 3 grunts it could mean one or two less FO on table and FO seems really good option in new edition."
I dont want to sound anit-ariadna, but they quide known for being horde army of Infinity.....so 3 dudes for 10 dont change a thing compare to line kazak for 9pts.
Henshini wrote: I think CB has re-evaluated the value of BS. Compare the new ORC to the new Mobile Brigada, Higher BS is the only reason I can see for that cost gap. 10 pts for arm 3 MI isn't too crazy if the BS is only 10 or so.
Aguaciles cost 10 per dude...and they BS11. As for new Orc he is BS 14 for 40pts and Mobile is BS 13 for...... 39! But I guess we pay for V:courage and flamethrower.
"Also keep in mind that certain units are supposed to go down in points and a lot is still unknown. You purchase 3 grunts it could mean one or two less FO on table and FO seems really good option in new edition."
I dont want to sound anit-ariadna, but they quide known for being horde army of Infinity.....so 3 dudes for 10 dont change a thing compare to line kazak for 9pts.
I gues time will tell.
Power creep, any time new editions come out it's a concern.
BTW are we clear that he didn't mean light flamethrower & not heavy ?
That'd be a major difference from a minor slip. Though he did say they're like Naffatun for Ariadna :-/
Henshini wrote: I think CB has re-evaluated the value of BS. Compare the new ORC to the new Mobile Brigada, Higher BS is the only reason I can see for that cost gap. 10 pts for arm 3 MI isn't too crazy if the BS is only 10 or so.
Aguaciles cost 10 per dude...and they BS11. As for new Orc he is BS 14 for 40pts and Mobile is BS 13 for...... 39! But I guess we pay for V:courage and flamethrower.
"Also keep in mind that certain units are supposed to go down in points and a lot is still unknown. You purchase 3 grunts it could mean one or two less FO on table and FO seems really good option in new edition."
I dont want to sound anit-ariadna, but they quide known for being horde army of Infinity.....so 3 dudes for 10 dont change a thing compare to line kazak for 9pts.
I gues time will tell.
Power creep, any time new editions come out it's a concern.
BTW are we clear that he didn't mean light flamethrower & not heavy ?
That'd be a major difference from a minor slip. Though he did say they're like Naffatun for Ariadna :-/
Naffatun have both LFT and HFT options. LFT costs 10 points.
USA Grunts being 10 points isn't too unreasonable.
Naffatun are 10 points, and have full rifles.
Light Shotguns + Flamethrower means there's an overlap in the optimal rangeband of the shotguns, meaning minor redundancy. That alone means ARM3 and those stats are OK for 10 points.
The main problem with complaining about points costs is we don't know how much other units are going to change. It's unavoidable that every unit will need at least a look at its points with the new rules and weapon bands, and most if not all will require recosting. 10pts might seem really cheap right now compared to, say, a HFT Naffatun, but HFT Naffatun might end up dropping in price.
Right now we're being given snippets of N3 information and we're trying to make it work in our heads regarding N2. So before we start up the power creep complaints, something CB has been very good at minimising, how about we wait until we have N3 in our grubby mits before we start talking balance, rather than making Alpharius pissed off that we derailed the thread.
Icestorm is no doubt selling well. It seems to attract for Infinity vets and the "I heard about this game" crowd. Aside from the less-than-introductory price, I haven't heard a single bad thing about it in my microcosm of Infinity-loving forums and game stores I frequent.
CB will probably make an announcement sometime. They seem to enjoy at least mentioning their successes.
Absolutionis wrote: Icestorm is no doubt selling well. It seems to attract for Infinity vets and the "I heard about this game" crowd. Aside from the less-than-introductory price, I haven't heard a single bad thing about it in my microcosm of Infinity-loving forums and game stores I frequent.
CB will probably make an announcement sometime. They seem to enjoy at least mentioning their successes.
At my local club we ordered 3 copies, "only" 3 cuz most of our members have an army already and we have only 2 PanO players(I think thats the biggest problem around my area).
Carlos mentioned something about CB not expecting Icestorm to sell so fast and how they grow as a company.
Well it kinda made me proud to hear that.....I have my share in building company/game that im proud of.
I'd say unless you're getting it direct from CB try and get it done earlier as you want to be sure the retailer you're getting it from gets their order in in time
Pre-ordered mine from the Warstore, so I'm feeling pretty secure. Traditional boardgame distributors that dabble in tabletop though, I wouldn't be so sure. Definitely order from a tursted sourece with a good relationship with CB.
We are definitely witnessing a watershed point in CB's growth. Goog to know that the fellows who are in charge love the product and their community. I look forward to watching them rise while GW crashes. Viva la Corvus Belli!
Savnock wrote: Pre-ordered mine from the Warstore, so I'm feeling pretty secure. Traditional boardgame distributors that dabble in tabletop though, I wouldn't be so sure. Definitely order from a tursted sourece with a good relationship with CB.
We are definitely witnessing a watershed point in CB's growth. Goog to know that the fellows who are in charge love the product and their community. I look forward to watching them rise while GW crashes. Viva la Corvus Belli!
I feel good with the Warstore, he is close with the owners the company that imports Infinity and many other model lines to the states.
From reading the booklet I think she may be something more like a robot, the Nomads apparently hacked the friendly fire settings on them to make them hostile to the Pan-O forces too. Or maybe she's just a lady with a briefcase Uzi and they messed with her tactical interface thing.
Everything... everything.. that has come out of this GenCon was Top notch.
Sales.
Icestorm sold out in 1 week, CB's growth graphic showing a 25% for this year. These guys are at the top of wargaming right now.
Angel's painting masterclasses.
Cannot wait for that upcoming painting book. Angel showing his Airbrush+brush techniques on those videos was the most inspiring stuff I've seen in a month.
Concept designs.
Not a single flaw, not a single dissapointment. Everything looks fething beautiful and has the potential of becoming incredible miniatures.
3rd. Edition.
Every single bit of upcoming rules they are leaking tastes like liberty to me. N3 is gonna rock.
So I wonder when CB are going to upgrade their official forum servers? It's overwhelmed like 75% of the time that I go to check on them.
If they're going to keep the official forum open, they're going to have to do a lot better than this. Fortunately making a boatload of money off of IceStorm should help offset those costs...
I think it's the quickstart variaint of N3. Things will be done in N3 the way they are done in Icestorm, unless they get more complicated/detailed. Methinks.
Savnock wrote:So I wonder when CB are going to upgrade their official forum servers? It's overwhelmed like 75% of the time that I go to check on them.
If they're going to keep the official forum open, they're going to have to do a lot better than this. Fortunately making a boatload of money off of IceStorm should help offset those costs...
They only still have the forum becouse the fans wanted them to keep it, so likely never. But, the reason for the problems right now is Gen-Con. Other then that it normal only has the issue 2 days at month on new model day, and that has stopped alot with them giving othersites the news and pic first.
plastictrees wrote:So Icestorm is based on N3 right?
I'm sure that's a stupid question but I had to ask.
Savnock wrote: So I wonder when CB are going to upgrade their official forum servers? It's overwhelmed like 75% of the time that I go to check on them.
If they're going to keep the official forum open, they're going to have to do a lot better than this. Fortunately making a boatload of money off of IceStorm should help offset those costs...
The decision to keep the official forum running was only made a few weeks ago. Sure they've probably had their hands tied with 3rd edition, Icestorm & Gencon but I'd expect that they will make some move to get it updated soon (and in fact I think there may have been some confirmation about this?)
In the meantime of course there is Dakka's Infinity sub-forum, where the game now has its own dedicated section of the board!
Economics. 5000 is guaranteed profit by a fixed sum, making future planing easier.
And im speculating since its their first time making a product such as this they are playing it safe.
Economics. 5000 is guaranteed profit by a fixed sum, making future planing easier.
And im speculating since its their first time making a product such as this they are playing it safe.
I see your point, but O:I proven that there are people willing to buy their products.
I suppose there is potential for a lot of cross-game (i.e. non-Infinity buyers and players) purchases, just because Angel is such a bad-ass artist. He has also done work with other miniature ranges, and so might pull in players who have seen that work.
It's hard to predict whether this will sell out more quickly than I:O or not, although again I can't imagine them saying "Well, that's it!" if they sell out within a month.
It's a limited edition book and comes with an exclusive Joan of Arc miniature when pre-ordered.
I'm sure that'll help sales.
After watching Angel talk about the book and give a quick run through of his painting process, I'd really like to see a series of masterclass videos of him actually painting. His explanations, while helpful, felt rather general; that could be a result of the brief nature of the presentation or his own teaching methods. But the book preview shown seems to have very sparse text.
I don't even use an airbrush, but I'd still love to watch him work. There's just so much more that can be learned through observation than words alone.
Absolutionis wrote: Icestorm is no doubt selling well. It seems to attract for Infinity vets and the "I heard about this game" crowd. Aside from the less-than-introductory price, I haven't heard a single bad thing about it in my microcosm of Infinity-loving forums and game stores I frequent.
CB will probably make an announcement sometime. They seem to enjoy at least mentioning their successes.
Honestly if I had the cash I would have picked up icestorm as the "I have heard of this game" crowd. Wanted to get into infinity for a long time and this seems like a great way to do so.
Economics. 5000 is guaranteed profit by a fixed sum, making future planing easier.
And im speculating since its their first time making a product such as this they are playing it safe.
I see your point, but O:I proven that there are people willing to buy their products.
But you're writing that now, several weeks after CB had to write a number down and tell their printer to give them a bunch of boxes.
Keep in mind that the scenery pack and all but three of the models in the box are going to be released later. CB's done a good number of limited edition models so far, and the rampant speculation is running more towards "Which factions get the next starter box?" than "Is CB going to decide they hate money and discontinue the starter?"
That doesn't necessarily mean a measurable thing though.
You had a lot of people that were acting as "ninja shoppers" for people who wanted Icestorm but didn't want to wait for the actual release.
Then you very well might have had people buying it solely for the "prerelease" title so that they can hawk the entire set or components on eBay for a higher price, or for the "exclusive" models(Knight-Father and Reverend Healer are not seeing actual releases in the form of different sculpts until next year at the earliest, no real mention on the CSU lady), or any number of possible factors.
I think someone said 300? I believe it was just that one pallet. And it was decimated when I got there at 10:30ish on friday. Or actually decimated would mean it was down 30 copies... no it was demolished, obliterated, there were maybe 30 copies left.
I wonder if they're similarly underestimating the pre order demand? If they thought 300 would last all of Gencon and it was sold out in hours, I wonder if the 5000 will sell out before the pre order period is over?
I very much got the impression the 5000 was simply what they thought they could afford to produce. It would have been a matter of how much they think they will sell and how much it would cost to produce. Once those 5000 sell out they will have a baseline to decide how popular it actually is and order more.
That would be great for them, and the game in general, but that's a huge number of units in this industry. Just look at the number of backers in the 'big' tabletop kickstarters.
Guys, they literally don't understand (or didn't, until GenCon, I think) how popular their little game has become in the US. Fernando told me Thursday morning, before the hall opened, that they had "plenty" of Neoterra Bolts and Penny's.
According to Carlos' presentation, Corvus Belli's sales have grown significantly (75%+) in recent years so they must have an idea that their little game is gaining in notoriety.
It's been on my radar for awhile now and the new models have finally pushed me over the edge.
Think that's really great news that Gencon has grown so much - more attendees means more people buying, more money for the industry, more games in future (more opponents even)! I would love to go myself one time..
And Corvus Belli in particular. I think they've tried so hard to make a good product; the years of playtesting, the concept and design work, of even trying to keep production in-house at a time when the Spanish economy is suffering so much. Having met Bostria and a couple of the other guys, the sheer enthusiasm for what they are doing and desire to make something good and different.. I don't think anyone begrudges that things are now starting to come good for them, I think they deserve it.
It's part of the (rather lovely) Bootleg range. Non combat minis basically, mostly pinups as well as the recent O-12 commissioner.
They have a few other tag pilots but all of them and the one that lovely lady is from are much smaller than a full TAG. That looks to be a conversion now that I actually open up page and take a look at it.
Yeah I hadn't actually realized that until just now, I saw it on the cover there and just looked at the girl, assumed it was the whole bootleg and moved along.
Anyone know who to contact at CB for missing parts? My cosplay bolt was missing its backpack. I left a website message but I don't feel that that got to anyone.
Mr.Church13 wrote: Anyone know who to contact at CB for missing parts? My cosplay bolt was missing its backpack. I left a website message but I don't feel that that got to anyone.
Theres an email address lurking around on the main site somewhere. Used it twice before and got the parts in a fortnight or so.
Mr.Church13 wrote: Anyone know who to contact at CB for missing parts? My cosplay bolt was missing its backpack. I left a website message but I don't feel that that got to anyone.
cincydooley wrote: Be patient. I know they have a backlog on service requests right now due to GenCon. They're really good about getting back to people tho.
They have a "backlog on service requests" before and after conventions.
They really need to step up customer service; get a few more people who can speak more than just Spanglish and go from there.
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