Greyjoy is coming! That's pretty tempting, but as much as I love ASoIaF, I hate CMoN even more.
After dealing with them when I played Dark Age, where they were not only grossly incompetent in distribution (which seems to be the case with this as well), but had hands down worst customer service I have ever received from a hobby company, I'm pretty hesitant to pick this game up. Which is a shame, because it looks like a ton of fun, and the models are great.
If they add $55 worth of game content I might go in for the 2 Zc comics - no interest in the comics themselves. It looks like each comic comes with 8 minis and 2 card sets so $3.43 each for 16 minis
EDIT: $33 - $50 to ship 1 comic and it's stretch goals - I'm out
DaveC wrote: If they add $55 worth of game content I might go in for the 2 Zc comics - no interest in the comics themselves. It looks like each comic comes with 8 minis and 2 card sets so $3.43 each for 16 minis
It's a little different depending on the title from the looks of things.
Zombicide - 8 miniatures and 2 card packs
Zombicide Invader - 7 miniatures and 3 card packs
Death may Die - 6 miniatures and 4 card packs
I am hoping that some of the miniatures are enemies rather than just characters which would explain why Death may die has more card packs (for a new episode).
The books are drawn by established Italian artists, so that's a good sign that it won't be a poorly drawn affair at least.
The Invader book is by the artist of Dragonero which was a pretty enjoyable fantasy comic. Death May Die is by the artist of one of the expanded Sanctum series.
Both of which are available in English if you're curious.
I'm not usually a fan of licensed comics but if they end up with some monsters thrown in there rather than only heroes they may get me to back.
I still would've liked to have see Eduoard Guiton draw one- that's the guy that did all the original Zombicide and Massive Darkness art, Confrontation, AT- 43, Wrath of Kings, Krosmaster, as well as all sorts of other design works.
He did draw actual comics once upon a time.
Michael Shinall, CMON's Design and Development Manager, and Developer Leo Almeida, veteran game-makers who have had a hand in designing and developing hit games like Bloodborne: The Board Game, and A Song of Ice and Fire: Tabletop Miniatures Game are taking the designing reigns on Masters of the Universe: The Board Game. They are developing a new game system that will take advantage of the iconic setting and universe as well as bring in many of the setting’s most beloved characters. The game will feature highly-detailed miniature figures of these characters, giving both gamers and collectors a thrill.
When asked about creating a game based on the groundbreaking toy line, Michael Shinall said, “Masters was a part of most of our childhoods. People of a certain age know all about it. Simply saying, ‘I have the Power’ is automatically said in one’s mind a certain way because of it. Now, this game will bring an entirely new generation to Eternia and its many characters. Parents will be able to pass down their love for He-Man to their children, and that’s amazing.”
Since its inception in 1982, Masters of the Universe has been a cultural phenomenon transcending generations and igniting “the power” amongst fans around the world. Now, after more than 30 years, Mattel is bringing Masters of the Universe back and is setting out to create a global evergreen franchise with multiple content access points expanding the story and characters within the vast universe.
“As Mattel looks to unlock the power of its IP, partnering with CMON is the latest step to bring back one of the company’s most famous contributions to pop-culture -- He-Man, Skeletor, and the Power of Grayskull from Masters of the Universe,” said Janet Hsu, Chief Franchise Officer, Mattel. “This new game system will be sure to introduce fans to the most iconic characters through a fresh interpretation of Eternia as it has never been seen before.”
Masters of the Universe: The Board Game will launch on Kickstarter in 2021.
Stay tuned for more exciting information as we approach the launch of the campaign.
Automatically Appended Next Post: oh and in the comic KS we've now got a hardback reprint of the 3 issue starcadia quest mini series (that's already had a soft cover reprint via IDW
only available as an add on if you buy one of the main comics,
on one had it's a shame they haven't done any minis for it, on the other i'd be annoyed to be pressured into buying it again
Wonder what kind of game it will be? My immediate guess what s some sort of battle game. I’m hoping for more than that though, perhaps something along the lines of a dungeon crawler?
My speculation meter is off the charts.
Ah man, a GI Joe game! That would be awesome. I never really could get into Motu, the aesthetics just aren't for me, but Shinall is the designer of one of the best Wargames I've ever played (Song of Ice and Fire) so it has that going for it.
Hope CMON's audit situation is settled by then, as well as fewer outstanding KS.
Miniature Market's sale is a day old, but found some CMON and FFG titles there. Picked up AQ Lava Boss monsters for $6 and Kick Ass for $18. Also, FFG Runewars, Star Wars X-Wing, Tide of Iron, and Zombicide Black Plague guest boxes. Free shipping USA at $100 and customer holds available.
...but lightning fast reflexes, combined with all vehicles coming with precognitive ejection systems , easily allowing for near zero fatality rates due to vehicle explosions...
Alpharius wrote: ...but lightning fast reflexes, combined with all vehicles coming with precognitive ejection systems , easily allowing for near zero fatality rates due to vehicle explosions...
Theophony wrote: If hasbro ever allows CMON to do a GIJoe game scaled to Zombicide I’m screwed.
As a UK type, I'm more attracted to a wishlist Action Force version. That started with a UK toyline from Palitoy and evolved into using repainted versions of the GI Joe toys.
Mass battles of Z Force vs Red Shadows would float my boat for some retro inspired wargaming.
Alpharius wrote: ...but lightning fast reflexes, combined with all vehicles coming with precognitive ejection systems , easily allowing for near zero fatality rates due to vehicle explosions...
You never read the comics then?
My bad, I suppose - I was going with the same era GI JOE as would be what was shown of The Masters of the Universe in the CMON teaser.
I mean, have you read the latest comics with He-Man in them?!?
Miniatures are great. In our gaming group, Gloomhaven fired all the other dungeoncrawlers, but finding miniature proxies has been a pain. For a racial group, you will want melee, ranged, and spellcasting units, about six each. I used the MD orc and goblin fighters, archers, and shamans for these units. Almost impossible to find a good price for sufficient numbers of these miniatures of the same sculpting style, especially spellcasters.
Game sorta plays like overly complicated HeroQuest. Some gamers said they and the kids like the game. I guess if you don't have your dungeoncrawler with custom dice and like the miniatures, pick up MD2.
I really hope CMON fulfills its outstanding KS and settles this audit in the next few months, though.
It did not get as much money as other KSiirc and it had some strong criticism about the rules, I did not expect them to give it a sequel, I am glad it does get one and that they keep the proper art direction instead of killing it like they did with sci fi zombicide and project elite...
I found out about their comic Kickstarter 7 hours before it ended. Don't give a damn about the comic TBH, but $30 for a set of 8 new Zombicide survivors with 1st Edition stat cards? Yes please.
Glad to see more Massive Darkness (hope we get more evil gnomes) as I found it a fun romp
I think one of the reasons it got such criticism on release was it was never intended to have a campaign system as written but due to demand in during the KS (not unexpected people always want to 'improve' their characters in dungeon crawlers) they bolted one on (and of course it wasn't particularly great)
so it was criticised for a weak campaign mode. If they've had time to actually think about it properly I hope this has been improved substantially (and in a way the original game can also benefit from)
Alpharius wrote: Damn, you really won't let that Invader thing go, will you?
No, and as much I understand that it is illogical for me to do so, it was the one I was most excited for and it was a massive disappointment, I was expecting/ hoping to get some generic sci fi models in line with mass effect/ other proper sci fi/ euromanga aesthetics and I got mostly 40k knockoffs.
I am quite happy to see they kept the same artwork with the first one for the second massive darkness as I like this aesthetic and it is a good resource for fantasy dungeon crawler models.
Rumor is MD2 is more focused on Demons but I’m sure there will be lots of different types as add ons. At the very least if will also expand Green Horde and Black Plague as a card pack is highly likely.
I left a dollar in for the comics KS pledge levels aren’t bad on their own but the postage could nearly double the cost so I’ll wait for the PM to decide - that said I did spend $75 on the Turtle packs so who am I to judge!
Gallahad wrote: Interesting. I didn't think Massive Darkness was well received (the rules at least). But maybe it sold better than I thought it had.
Classic CMoN, in that the rules were trash, but the models were gorgeous, and dirt cheap. I know at least three folks (myself included) who threw out the gameplay bits, but still feel good about the purchase thanks to the minis.
I kind of view zombiecides and massive darkness as cheap gameplay component instead of complete games, though the 2nd edition Zombicide is a big update on the 1st edition one.
If they tighten up the rules like they have from most 1.0 to 2.0 versions, I can see this really take off.
Curious if the light/ dark rules will still be there or more straightforward.
A lot of people also wanted something similar to Heroquest or Warhammer Quest. I wonder if they'll try and do something similar from the ground up rather than just tacked on?
I am excited for this. Unlike some others. I am hoping for more character models as well as bad guys. I would have preferred vampires, but demons are at least different from the last Massive darkness. I havent backed a CMON project since Green Horde in 2017. So, I am kind of excited for this.
Them revisiting Massive darkness gives me hope, that they could revisit Wrath of Kings. That could happen? ... Right? ...Right? .... Guys?
Gallahad wrote: Interesting. I didn't think Massive Darkness was well received (the rules at least). But maybe it sold better than I thought it had.
Well, if it's like Rum and Bones 2 and Zombicide 2, MD2 will be a revised edition of their previous game, including an upgrade kit. With this being generic fantasy, and the upgrade kit including content you may not have bought with MD1, it might be easier to proxy generic fantasy miniatures you already have. MD1 had some terrain add-ons (eg. bridges and pillars) that were inexpensive, although WizKids might have their own version.
Them revisiting Massive darkness gives me hope, that they could revisit Wrath of Kings. That could happen? ... Right? ...Right? .... Guys?
EDIT : After having bought much of CMON's stock, MM's been having WK starter boxes et al. for clearance for quite awhile. (Picked up mini's for each faction for about $70.) Also, CMON is supporting (in theory) Game of Thrones. Dunno any of the larger game companies who put out new product for two miniature wargame lines they didn't put out product for, one of which was on clearance for several months, while supporting a third miniature game line. (FFG does something close, with Star Wars X-Wing, Star Wars Armada, and Star Wars Legion.)
Smokestack wrote: I am excited for this. Unlike some others. I am hoping for more character models as well as bad guys. I would have preferred vampires, but demons are at least different from the last Massive darkness. I havent backed a CMON project since Green Horde in 2017. So, I am kind of excited for this.
Them revisiting Massive darkness gives me hope, that they could revisit Wrath of Kings. That could happen? ... Right? ...Right? .... Guys?
Dammit!
Now you've got me hoping for the same thing - and we all know how well 'hope' goes in many game settings!!!
All kidding aside, there's a better chance of this happening vs. CMON bringing back their best game ever (Dark Age) - via Kickstarter or some other way!
"Masters of the Universe: The Board Game in North America, South America and throughout Asia"
Licensing issues, most likely that someone already has the MOTU board game licence in Europe. Similar issues have popped up with Star Wars and Marvel comics in the past.
And just for further context you need to slot Night of the Living Dead: A Zombicide game in at the end at $430,154 so neither the Zombicide name nor a license is a guarantee to make big money.
With 2 Zombicide games outstanding I doubt they could go to that well again at the moment.
I just hope they make some of the packs available again. The rats and saurians were always sold out or unavailable. The elementals were hard to come by as well. It would be great if there were more of the evil dwarves and barbarian designs.
I'm looking forward to MD2 but still disappointed that they didn't do anything further with The Others setting, would have loved a co-operative (/solo) dungeon crawler style game in the setting especially if it had legacy cards for 7 Sins.
"Masters of the Universe: The Board Game in North America, South America and throughout Asia"
Licensing issues, most likely that someone already has the MOTU board game licence in Europe. Similar issues have popped up with Star Wars and Marvel comics in the past.
Thats a shame, il have to try and get it sent to someone i know in the states who can then forward it on to me
Theophony wrote: I just hope they make some of the packs available again. The rats and saurians were always sold out or unavailable. The elementals were hard to come by as well. It would be great if there were more of the evil dwarves and barbarian designs.
They are some available in the Time Machine KS. The things they don’t have stock of are the frost dice, reptiles, spearmaiden cyclops, and the Hellephant. It appears the rats are still in stock as well as the elementals.
I assume they’ll have some of the stuff available since there is stock left.
Dang, that's a big difference between Rising Sun and Ankh. Bloodrage was dismissed by BGG because it was CMON game and it wasn't until later that they realized CMON could put out a good hybrid Euro game. BGG'ers knew about Rising Sun, so it funded highly. AFAIK, Ankh was highly anticipated. However, the CMON audit was a pretty involved discussion, with opinions from CPA's and auditors, so I'm sure that caused a KS funding hit.
As for Zombicide: Night of the Living Dead, the KS was smaller in scope, and the rules were slightly different than Zombicide. No add-ons, 10 KSE's, $80 pledge plus shipping. At $90 MSRP, it's going to be less expensive retail, especially if it goes on sale.
I passed on Night of the living dead KS because if your going to resin a zombie game you don’t do it as a zombie game in a similar genre. I wasn’t a huge fan of the movies, so no need to collect the things.
Massive Darkness 2. The first one, haven't played it but bought it not too long ago, looks to be similar to zombiecide in basic concepts (hordes of enemies running towards you, similar tiles) but as a dungeon crawler.
Alpharius wrote: Plus I think it was hard on the heels of an actual 'real' Zombicide Kickstarter too?
Yep! Forgot to mention that.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Theophony wrote: I passed on Night of the living dead KS because if your going to resin a zombie game you don’t do it as a zombie game in a similar genre. I wasn’t a huge fan of the movies, so no need to collect the things.
Wasn't just a reskin. Zombies breaking into barriers was a big part of the Night of the Living Dead movie, but isn't in the regular Zombicide rules. So, with Night, they introduced a Breaker zombie type, as well as Survivors having the additional ability to create barriers. Breakers, in the movie, were zombies "intelligent" enough to use bricks to break things. Night also added the Romero rules to reflect Survivors whose morale was broken (eg. seeing a loved one turned into a zombie, or ghoul, as referred to in the movie), etc.
Of course, CMON could have, as part of the Zombicide 2nd edition rules, made, as an integral part of the ruleset, barriers and zombies destroying them, as well a broken morale. Instead, they went with Night-only additional rules and special zombies.
I'm a fan of the movie, but that meant I disliked the "everyone armed with a weapon" sculpts, when, most of the time, the survivors in the movie were not armed, iirc. I particularly don't think katanas were in the movie.
Ankh Pledgemanager invites just went out. You have until September 9th which is a very long time for CMoN PM to fill it out. I'll probably sit on it a bit as I'm spent hobby wise for the next few weeks.
Thanks. The "Late Pledge Here" thing is up, and I forgot (as I also did with Ankh) to put my usual $1 down for PM access. So now, since I was a dumbass/distracted by other RL things I need to keep an eye out, because I'm missing the KS updates and prompts and such for both.
Just got an unsolicited message from CMoN support saying they've received my message (not sent) about Time Machine items being out of stock, so if you haven't gotten your order yet look forward to being disappointed. No information about which parts of my order they messed up or if the entire thing will be cancelled.
I was one of many people who verified their order well before the deadline but was bumped to the end due to the pledge re-opening FUBAR if anyone else is in that group.
I think one of the reasons it got such criticism on release was it was never intended to have a campaign system as written but due to demand in during the KS (not unexpected people always want to 'improve' their characters in dungeon crawlers) they bolted one on (and of course it wasn't particularly great)
so it was criticised for a weak campaign mode. If they've had time to actually think about it properly I hope this has been improved substantially (and in a way the original game can also benefit from)
Agreed - thought it was great as a single play 'arcade' type game, but the campaign mode felt very tacked on and I don't think worked very well.
But my gaming group and I had a lot of fun playing it, got through all of the missions in the core game I think, so definitely got our money's worth.
If I had any criticism it was that it felt slightly easy. The Ranger in particular would become absolutely nails with the shadow cloak, there would be a massive build up to the boss and then they would be killed in moments Although, it could be that we played it off the back of Kingdom Death, which was the opposite and had us sobbing like little little girls and lamenting our dead characters after most games.
Welcome to Massive Darkness 2! Ten years have passed since the Lightbringers drove back the hordes of the Darkness and sealed the Portal from whence they came. The heroes thought their job done, but the newfound peace was never meant to last. Dangerous new Portals have suddenly opened up all across the land. The Darkness and its hordes are flooding through, stronger than ever. It will not be enough to simply close the Portals this time. The Lightbringers must travel through them into the unknown to destroy the Darkness once and for all. Either Light will triumph, or the Darkness will consume every being in the world. This is where players find themselves in Massive Darkness 2, a new edition of the hit dungeon-crawler game. Let’s take a look at a few of the exciting changes players can expect!
For Massive Darkness 2, the game designers took a long, hard look at every aspect of the game, listening intensively to gamer feedback from hundreds hours of gameplay. The goal of the designers was to improve every element of the game to create the ultimate dungeon-crawler-in-a-box. As such, they’ve reevaluated every rule, every mechanic, and basically everything else about how the game works, stripping it down to its foundation and then rebuilding the ruleset, stronger and better. The game still retains the classic, cooperative, dungeon-crawl feel, but with optimized gameplay for a smoother tabletop experience.
The changes to the gameplay are many, so we’ll start by highlighting a few that we’re the most excited about. The first things returning players will notice are the changes made to the individual Lightbringers in the game. Each hero class plays extremely differently from the others, each with their own components, setup, and gameplay style. The goal was to make the every hero character feel truly different and asymmetrical. This means that simply playing a different hero will greatly change a player’s experience from game to game. Attempting the same scenario with a different character will provide brand new challenges and survival options for players.
Next, monsters have been revamped from the ground up, and now even minions can deal some major damage. Additionally, like in the original Massive Darkness, enemies will use the gear that they carry, which players can win in battle. But now gear is divided between Common, Rare, Epic and Legendary, some with truly awesome powers… if players can defeat the monsters and take it for themselves. Bosses are a new class of enemy, and each will come with their own dashboard, tokens, and set of rules. Roaming Monsters are still found within the dungeons, lurking behind corners to catch Lightbringers unaware. Roaming Monsters and Bosses are very plug-and-play within the game. For a new challenge in any scenario, players simply trade out what enemies they may encounter for new ones as they traverse the dark, twisting corridors.
Light to Fight the Darkness
The core box of the game will feature 10 one-shot missions. However, we know from experience that many players enjoy being able to string missions together, so we’re so excited to reveal an amazing addition to the Massive Darkness world: a fully realized campaign mode which will be available as a Day 1 expansion. These rules will introduce a narrative campaign that will test players’ skills over many game sessions. This was one of the most requested changes to the original Massive Darkness, and we’ve read and heard all the feedback. These new campaign rules have been developed from the ground up to be more balanced than before and perfectly meld with all the other changes that are coming in Massive Darkness 2.
Over the course of multiple branching missions, players will face countless dangers, and discover incredible secrets about what’s really behind the Darkness and the Portals. Heroes will grow from Level 1 to Level 10, gaining access to new powers, including Hybrid Skills letting them tap into more than one specialization, and having the chance to find and wield Legendary equipment. Depending on their choices, players might enlist the aid of useful NPCs, gain different gear, and could even fundamentally change their own nature. The campaign rules can even be applied to scenarios from Massive Darkness 2, turning one-shot missions into a campaign, making the gameplay and roleplay possibilities endless.
Massive Darkness 2 is more than just a small revamp of the original. It has been completely redesigned, implementing many of the changes people have been asking for since the original release. We can’t wait to show you more.
Stay tuned as we get closer to the launch of the Kickstarter campaign. We'll post more previews of the game, insights from the designers, and reveal more exciting gameplay changes. Follow us on Facebook and Twitter!
The article gives me hope they'll do what they did to some of their other second editions, where they really tightened up the rules.
I think putting a campaign as its own separate thing is a good idea. Hopefully there's an actual sense of progression for those that want it. The blurb about it sounds interesting.
Why aren't you posting that sweet Guiton artwork though?
It looks like the MD2 KS is probably another month away - early August?
It's our favorite time of year: Convention Season! Both San Diego Comic Con (July 22-26) and Gen Con (Aug 1-2) are going virtual this year, and we're excited to see you there! Join us for both events for lots of streaming CMON content, such as the exclusive debut of our very first Marvel United play through followed by a live Q&A as well as a designer-hosted sneak preview of our upcoming Kickstarter: Massive Darkness 2.
any delay is good, I really hope they can 'fix' their accounting issue by then as it's clear people were avoiding backing because of it (or just hanging out at $1)
I'm sure MD2 will be put out in full but I worry that potential expansions might not get shown if they don't get enough backers and I want at least as many minis as the original especially if the game/campaign is better
LIGHTBRINGERS AND THE DARKNESS BATTLE WITH BRAND NEW GAMEPLAY
Jul 13, 2020
Combat is an ever-evolving art. As combatants learn each-others’ movements and tactics, they alter their own in order to come out on top. Such is the case with the fight between the Darkness and the Lightbringers. Each are employing new tactics in their efforts to be victorious. So, too, is the case with Massive Darkness’ own rules. The designers have stripped the rules back to their foundations and built them back up again, making improvements every step of the way. In this article, we’ll take a look at some of the changes to both the heroes and the enemies of Massive Darkness 2, and reveal how combat is now better than ever.
First up, players will immediately notice there is an equal mix of male and female Lightbringers, with 3 of each in the core box. Furthermore, each of those heroes is now tied to a specific class. While the option to mix and match heroes and classes in the original was nice, it meant that the rules had to be written very broadly so as to not create unforeseen broken combinations. Now, with each class being tied to a specific hero, that hero can be more customized to work within their class, melding together abilities in ways that could never happen in the original game.
This design decision allows for another major change: each class now plays entirely different from the others. Much more than just a different set of skills and bonuses, the classes have entirely different play styles, rules of combat, and even customized toolkits of component
For example, Rogues will have a cloth bag that they will pull action tokens from. As they progress in the game, they’re able to manipulate what tokens go into their bag, making this token-building mechanism important and directly built into their play.
Meanwhile in the Wizard class, their spells are tied to a rondel that they must use to maintain the balance between the mana they are getting in versus the spells they want to cast. This creates a cooldown dynamic preventing them from using the same spell over and over again, so they’ll need to take extra care when deciding which spell to use.
Or there’s the Berserker who is able to utilize the damage they receive during the game and turn it into useful energy to power their different “stances”, a mechanic unique to them. So, taking damage can actually be good for the Berseker, as it fuels some of their most powerful attacks – but there is a balance in that as well: some damage will make them extremely powerful, but too much damage will get them killed. With these newly designed dramatic differences between classes, each playthrough of the game will be very different, depending on which class a player chooses at the start.
The enemies in the game have also gotten a revamp. Enemies still fall into the categories of Mobs, Roaming Monsters, and Bosses. Mobs are now the enemies that can be found carrying specific items, and like in the original game, the Mobs know how to use the gear that they carry. So, to get that awesome bow, you’ll have to first take out the enemy carrying it (and using against you!). Bosses are also a major new enemy category in the game, and the designers really went all-out to make encounters with them seem epic in scope. They are the largest and fiercest enemies in the dungeons. Bosses feature their own tiles where they lurk, and each Boss has its own dashboard, tokens, and rules for combat.
Adding new and different enemies to a game is very plug-and-play, making altering an existing scenario or designing your own scenarios and campaigns a breeze. Each Mob and Roaming Monster comes with its own cards that are simply shuffled into the basic decks from the game, making sure players will never know what creature might pop up when they open the dungeon door or peek down that dark hallway.
The final change we’ll cover in this article are the updated Shadow Rules. Now, Shadow Zones grant access to the special Shadow Die that boasts large amounts of hits and mana. Another face of the die is the Shadow Ability result, which is how heroes now trigger that special power on their profile, making Shadow Combat more exciting and dramatic than ever.
Massive Darkness 2 brings you the dark, dungeon-delving action players want but with an overhauled system from the ground up to make it more replayable, modular, and streamlined. Stay tuned for more previews as we draw closer to the game’s launch on Kickstarter!
Different mechanics for different classes sounds really interesting, but I just can't throw more money at CMON without getting some more clarity on their financial situation.
They are having serious serious issues getting any ASOIAF to market, so I'm going to take a "wait and see". Fingers crossed they can show something substantial before the September (?) close of the Ahnk Kickstarter as I really want that one.
Sending more money their way just feels like a game of musical chairs when they can't even get restocks of very successful retail games (ASOIAF) to market.
You would think that would be a priority since retail releases don't hit the balance sheet the same way a big KS obligation does.
Re the audit issues Mazars Singapore has been appointed to carryout an independent investigation so it looks like they are taking it seriously
FORMATION OF INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATION COMMITTEE AND APPOINTMENT OF INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATOR
References are made to (i) the announcements of the Company dated 26 March 2020, 27 March 2020 and 1 April 2020 in relation to, among other matters, the delay in publication of annual results and possible delay in dispatch of annual report for the year ended 31 December 2019 and suspension of trading; (ii) the announcement of the Company dated 15 June 2020 in relation to, among other matters, the Company’s intention to form an independent investigation committee and commission an independent investigation; (iii) the announcement of the Company dated 23 June 2020 in relation to the guidance received from the Stock Exchange regarding the resumption of trading of the Company’s shares on the Stock Exchange; and (iv) the announcement of the Company dated 30 June 2020 in relation to the quarterly update on the resumption progress.
Capitalised terms used herein shall have the same meanings as those defined in the announcement of the Company dated 30 June 2020 unless otherwise defined herein. The board (the ‘‘Board’’) of directors (the ‘‘Directors’’) of CMON Limited (the ‘‘Company’’) hereby announces that the Investigation Committee, an independent investigation committee comprising all members of the audit committee of the Board, which will commission an independent professional party, has formed to conduct the Investigation.
The Board further announces that it has resolved to appoint Mazars Singapore as an independent professional party to conduct the Investigation and produce a report of findings (with internal control recommendations) to the Investigation Committee.
The Company will keep the public informed of the findings of the Investigation by making further announcement(s) as and when appropriate.
The Audit Issues are in relation to: (i) a distribution agreement with transaction value of approximately US$1.5 million (the ‘‘Distribution Agreement’’), (ii) the rationale and substance of the significant increase in the prepayment balance as at 31 December 2019, and (iii) other information as required by the auditors for their audit procedures on certain audit issues including going concern.
(ii) Audit progress in respect of the 2019 Annual Results
As a consequence of the Audit Issues, the Company has not published the 2019 Annual Results as at the date hereof and the audit procedures remain ongoing.As the Distribution Agreement is made with an American distribution company and governed by the laws of Minnesota of the United States of America (‘‘USA’’), the Company has also retained legal counsel in the USA to provide legal advice in connection with the Distribution Agreement. The Company continues to seek supporting information and documentation in respect of the other Audit Issues as well and will continue to communicate and cooperate with its auditors to complete their audit work in connection with the 2019 Annual Results. The publication of the 2019 Annual Results will also be subject to the conclusion and findings of the Investigation.
UPDATE ON THE TIMELINE FOR THE FULFILLMENT OF THE RESUMPTION CONDITIONS
The following table sets forth the pending events and expected timetable for resumption of trading of the shares in the Company:
Action Timetable
Formation of the Investigation Committee - In or around early July 2020
Appointment of an independent professional party to conduct the Investigation and produce a report of findings (with internal control recommendations) to the Investigation Committee - In or around early July 2020
Announcement by the Company of the findings of the Investigation - Subject to further assessment by the Board
Publication of 2019 Annual Results - Subject to further assessment by the Board
Publication of the annual report of the Company for the year ended 31 December 2019 =Subject to further assessment by the Board
Resumption of trading in the shares of the Company - Subject to further assessment by the Board and the approval by the Stock Exchange
They also published their 2019 governance report last week
Gallahad wrote: Different mechanics for different classes sounds really interesting, but I just can't throw more money at CMON without getting some more clarity on their financial situation.
They are having serious serious issues getting any ASOIAF to market, so I'm going to take a "wait and see". Fingers crossed they can show something substantial before the September (?) close of the Ahnk Kickstarter as I really want that one.
Sending more money their way just feels like a game of musical chairs when they can't even get restocks of very successful retail games (ASOIAF) to market.
You would think that would be a priority since retail releases don't hit the balance sheet the same way a big KS obligation does.
Ahhh!
You're throwing water on my fire here!
But you are, of course, right.
Might be an "In for a $1" pledge and see where we are with the audit come the Pledge Manager deadline date, unfortunately.
Hopefully there's no 'incentive' to do otherwise in the campaign - like an 'all in' discount - but there probably will be one of those.
Gallahad wrote: Different mechanics for different classes sounds really interesting, but I just can't throw more money at CMON without getting some more clarity on their financial situation.
They are having serious serious issues getting any ASOIAF to market, so I'm going to take a "wait and see". Fingers crossed they can show something substantial before the September (?) close of the Ahnk Kickstarter as I really want that one.
Sending more money their way just feels like a game of musical chairs when they can't even get restocks of very successful retail games (ASOIAF) to market.
You would think that would be a priority since retail releases don't hit the balance sheet the same way a big KS obligation does.
Ahhh!
You're throwing water on my fire here!
But you are, of course, right.
Might be an "In for a $1" pledge and see where we are with the audit come the Pledge Manager deadline date, unfortunately.
Hopefully there's no 'incentive' to do otherwise in the campaign - like an 'all in' discount - but there probably will be one of those.
Man, I hear you. I've realized that I'm a basically just a CMON fanboy at this point as they are currently getting the vast bat majority of my hobby dollars, so I really want them to succeed and put this trouble behind them. But I still panic bought the ASOIAF Targaryen starter when I found one in stock just in case...
Did the same thing with Bloodrage which I didn't really plan on owning.
DESIGNER DIARIES PART 1
Jul 16, 2020
Hi folks! My name is Alex, and I’m one of the designers, along with Marco Portugal, of Massive Darkness 2: Hellscape (Hellscape being the sub-title of the core box). Our relationship with this franchise started a few years back, not as designers, but as developers of the first Massive Darkness game. Massive Darkness means a lot to us both, as it was our first big project at CMON; and what a dream assignment! I mean, my first big project was a dungeon crawler hack ‘n slash taking place in a medieval fantasy universe? That’s music to the ears of this longtime Diablo fan!
Back then we were anxious about the reception of the game, which in turn, made us keep track of community feedback. Yes folks, we have been closely combing Facebook groups, Reddit threads and, of course, BGG since the release of the first game. Getting this vast amount of information is the dream of every developer looking to improve their work. After reading all the reactions, we often found ourselves discussing what we could have done differently, hoping one day to have the chance.
So when Massive Darkness 2 appeared on CMON’s development schedule, we were thrilled! Not just because we had a bunch of cool ideas that we wanted to implement, but also that we would finally have the opportunity to take a good look into the biggest issues that gamers on the forums discussed.
That being said let’s dive into details. Massive Darkness 2 is still very much Massive Darkness. However, this time heroes will explore the depths of the lower dimensions in order to locate and destroy the source of the invading Darkness. We took a serious look at every single rule and mechanic & class and monster, and while we wanted to keep the core of what made the first game such a success, we weren’t afraid to change a few (or a lot of) rules, rebalance play, enhance combat, or to add and remove components, all in the hope of creating a better experience.
Let’s start with what we consider one of the Big New Things: asymmetric classes. We always hoped to make the classes feel vastly different from one another, which can be tricky in a dungeon crawler. So, we thought about adding new and unique components to each class, and it happened to fit the game very well. In MD2, each class has different components that will make their gameplay unique - not different to a point where each class has its own complex rule system, but right in a sweet spot that brings a special bonus to each class, and when used optimally, those bonuses will create a singular experience.
Another novelty in Massive Darkness 2: Hellscape is the loot system. In the original Massive Darkness, players usually got treasures according to the dungeon’s level. Now, there are three rarity levels of treasures; Normal, Rare and Mythic. Each time a player receives loot, either found on the dungeon or by defeating an enemy, the player draws a token from a bag that reveals the rarity of the item. This means there is a (small) chance a hero can find a strong, cool item right at the start of the game. As players advance, the chance of finding the rarer items increases. This makes getting loot a much more exciting and surprising part of the game.
And since we are talking about Items, we officially added “Item Sets” as a mechanic. For example, pieces of the “Shadowbane” set can be found in the Treasure Decks, and if a player manages to gather two or four items from the Shadowbane set, they will gain specific benefits depending on the class the character is playing.
Now, let’s go over a few examples of what we changed based on community feedback. Mobs now spawn the Leader plus one Minion per player, making adding the baddies much more streamlined. In addition, we created the new “Monster Dice” system. Each Minion adds one Monster Die to the Mob Attack and Defense rolls, which means every time you kill one of the Minions, the Mob will be rolling one less die. The Monster Dice are also responsible for triggering the monster Special Ability and Retaliation Damage. The Monster Dice replace the Counter-Attack phase, so there is no longer any clunky Monster Activations after each player’s turn. The Monster Phase itself remains similar.
Next, we added even more importance to Shadow; after all the game is called Massive “Darkness”. There are still Light and Shadow Zones, and as we know from the first game, our intrepid Lightbringers have been trained to fight better in the Darkness. In Massive Darkness 2, when a Hero attacks from a Shadow Zone, they will add a Shadow Die to their roll. The Shadow Die potentially adds mana or hits to the attack, like any other die, however each hero also has an Ultimate Ability that can only be activated by rolling a specific face of the Shadow Die.
Big changes were made to improve overall game balance. In order to make higher levels still challenging, we implemented a number of modifications including dice tweaks, creating the Monster Item Deck, and good news: Transmute is not a thing anymore. Players can still trade three Normal Items for one Rare and so on. However, there are now also specific zones where players can find a Forge they can use to upgrade their items.
There are also other changes that we will deep dive into during the Kickstarter Campaign, like the Roaming Monster activations that have been upgraded to make each of them more distinct, and we will introduce Bosses: a new tier of enemy that each come with their own tiles and mechanics, bringing epic battles to the game like never before.
Last (for now), but not least, we received a lot of feedback from the community related to the Story Mode which is now officially called “Campaign Mode”. We believe this mode was already well balanced and will remain the same and… just kidding! We have big plans for the Campaign Mode and is probably features the most dynamic changes coming to Massive Darkness! This is the subject of my next diary, so stay tuned!
fwiw, Miniature Market has a Last Chance... I wouldn't call it a sale, but found some Dark Ages miniatures there. Copy the entire URL for the sort.
https://www.miniaturemarket.com/searchresults/?start=32&q=*&sort=title+asc&filter[]=product_tag_uFilter:%22Last%20Chance%22&filter[]=stock_status_uFilter:%22In%20Stock%22&sort=title%20asc
Zombicide dice and Zombicide: Box of Zombies Set #3 - Angry Zombies marked Last Chance.
Pretty surprised that they would not longer carry "Warhammer Age of Sigmar: Hero Bases". They look good and are obviously versatile enough for non-GW figures as well. Could be used as objective markers.
*****
I'm normally jaded by dice, but the "each minion adds one minion die" and "unique shadow die" mechanics is the elegant version of Ameritrash. No complex mechanics, yet adds some excitement through randomness.
There's a "before your time, sonny" game called Throwing Stones, which also used "class dice", so you could customize your characters by selecting dice from different classes (eg. you could have a wizard die, and a fighter die).
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/11460/throwing-stones
However, I'm a sucker for gimmicks -- of course, a thief has a bag!
We have a bit of a surprise today, and that might be a slight understatement. We’ll let you make that call!
Introducing the Usagi Yojimbo Hero Pack for CMON's acclaimed Arcadia Quest chibi game line. Grow your guild with Gen the rhino bounty hunter, Kitsune the vixen thief, and of course...Miyamoto Usagi himself! Best of all? It’s live on Backerkit right now and you get all three exclusive sculpts and character cards for just $20.
So, what do you say? Ready to charge into the wilds of Arcadia?
highlord tamburlaine wrote: Those sculpts are way more stylized than usual. Not really a fan of the style they took them in.
A shame too as I'd have probably scooped up Usagi for old time's sake if they'd been done more in line with the rest of the AQ line.
I agree, a more normal sculpt and I would have added them, if just to paint up for my father (huge Usagi fan since issue #1 all those decades ago). But neither he nor I were impressed.
Alpharius wrote: They're going to do some sort of Massive Darkness "Upgrade Kit"?
Usually, it's stat cards for characters and enemies released in the previous version, including expansions and promos. You will still need the new version of the game for the rulebook, quest, dice, game system cards, game tiles, etc. The KS may have some expansions from the previous version for sale. Maybe see the Zombicide 2nd edition, and Rum and Bones 2nd edition KS for possibilities.
Would be nice to see a non-chibi UY figure for MD, TMNT etc. AFAIK, IDW Comics holds the licensing rights, and we've seen TMNT Zombicide figures. Personally, I didn't like the Green Horde celebrity parodies.
The BGG thread about the demonic theme of the game has forgotten that AQ had a Hellscape version as well.I'm hoping for non-generic demons I can use as Gloomhaven demons.
Any news on the CMON audit? Which KS projects will have been delivered by the time MD2 starts and ends?
I might only buy the upgrade kit as those are usually KSer exclusive, assuming they do make one but I'm sure they will. Then I can get MD2 at a later date if I don't have the funds to back next month.
I put some stuff up for sale/trade in the swap shop thread to pay for some of this. 19 people have looked at it and no one is willing to throw money at me yet.
I'm a bit conflicted. I went in big on MD1, but have only ever gotten in about 5 games. But I did really enjoy those 5 games, and I love the minis. Then again, I'm also very heavily invested in two boardgames that haven't shipped yet (Zombicide 2e and Batman:TAS), and I don't like having to many huge KS boxes in process at one time.
I don't know. I guess I'll jump in at $1 to see the updates, and decide from there. It'll probably all come down to the minis and the campaign system.
Monkeysloth wrote:I might only buy the upgrade kit as those are usually KSer exclusive, assuming they do make one but I'm sure they will. Then I can get MD2 at a later date if I don't have the funds to back next month.
I put some stuff up for sale/trade in the swap shop thread to pay for some of this. 19 people have looked at it and no one is willing to throw money at me yet.
Ah, now it all makes sense!
And yeah, I've never really had a lot of success with Dakka's Swap Shop either - and it hasn't gotten better now that overall traffic is down.
Psychopomp wrote:I'm a bit conflicted. I went in big on MD1, but have only ever gotten in about 5 games. But I did really enjoy those 5 games, and I love the minis. Then again, I'm also very heavily invested in two boardgames that haven't shipped yet (Zombicide 2e and Batman:TAS), and I don't like having to many huge KS boxes in process at one time.
I don't know. I guess I'll jump in at $1 to see the updates, and decide from there. It'll probably all come down to the minis and the campaign system.
If it comes down to minis for you, I suspect you'll be in for more than a dollar!
The MD1 minis are great, and I'd think that these will be even better, with the time between now and then really helping CMON and CMON's factories of choice get a lot better at making them...
I will probably jump into MD2 for the minis...I have used the ones from MD1 for everything except playing Massive Darkness...new Descent (1E) monsters, characters for 9th Age and AoS, more critters for WHQ...
I don't think I have every actually played MD yet...
CMON Limited is proud to announce a creative partnership with Gamegenic, the Asmodee-based studio behind innovative, high-quality game accessories.
Gamegenic and CMON will collaborate on multiple projects and game lines, and the partnership will kick off with the highly anticipated launch of CMON's Massive Darkness 2 Kickstarter campaign on August 4th.
CMON's Director of Licensing Geoff Skinner remarked, "At CMON, we love quality, and we always aim for perfection. The Gamegenic line is by far the best in the market, and they put a lot of care and attention into their products. We're thrilled to work with them, and we can’t wait for fans to use the incredible accessories they're creating. Massive Darkness 2 is the perfect inauguration title for this partnership, and we think the Gamegenic products are going to add a ton to the gameplay experience.”
"Fans and players alike can look forward to a very exciting collaboration,” says Gamegenic Head of Studio Adrian Alonso. "CMON has made a huge contribution to the increase of board games’ popularity. Our innovative ideas and love for details fit perfectly into the CMON philosophy. We share the passion for games and the ambition to create unique playing experiences."
In the coming weeks, CMON and Gamegenic will reveal the Massive Darkness 2 product line which can be ordered as part of the upcoming Kickstarter campaign.
Stay tuned for more news!
hopefully whatever bling it is will be separate and not baked into the pledge level, I want to try and keep this as affordable as possible
This will be an interesting one for me, I loved the models in the first one, but I still haven't even opened it after all this time. Nor have I gotten around to picking up some of the extra boxes like I meant to and now some (especially the lizard one it seems) are a little hard to find.
Looking at the stuff that partner company makes it would be easy for me to skip on it, so I'm all for those kinds of addons which will just help drive it past stretch goals.
Hoping there aren't too many expansion type things (ones that include models anyway), would be nice to not punish my wallet.
I started as a wargamer (40k) 20+ years ago. I still play but CMON and other solo coop mini games have taken my money and time since the first zombicide campaign. Solo play, ease of play, and having kids makes backing most of these type games a no brainer for me.
I love massive darkness. Simple and fast, crossover with other game systems, and easy to make and use custom characters (d&d adventure system minis, etc).
Can't wait to see what they have in store for massive darkness! I'm all for new minis, more heroes, perfected gameplay, etc.
I caught the last half of the Q&A livestream. I think they sold me on the game, despite my earlier mentioned hesitations. It sounds a lot more like what I wanted from the first one, plus they confirmed upgrade packs for full MD1 kickstarter content plus Black Plague retail.
I guess I'll have THREE huge boardgame pledges hanging in KS-space.
Paladin - Aura bonuses - add extra die, extra movement, supports other characters. Starts with a movement bonus aura. Can add more auras as he levels up. Can choose skills, can make other players more aggressive or add defense etc. Can bless skills, adds manna to skills to make better. Resets after every turn.
Wizard - 3 skill trees - Fire, Frost and Dark.
New condition tokens fire and frost. Get more tokens as you level up.
Fire token add to enemy then discard roll one yellow attack die for each token. Takes damage no defense.
Frost token add to enemy. Remove a token to take an action from the enemy. Monster/Mobs have 2 actions.
Dark skill wizard takes damage but deals more back in return.
Spells rotate based on an amulet token can manipulate the amulet with manna. Amulet simulates cool down between spells. Spells are free actions. Amulet rotates once the current spell is used.Can spend manna to rotate again. Can upgrade to rotate without spending manna. Can combo spells. Spells are placed on the amulet so you can link 3 attack spells if you have them.
Ranger - can fire up to 4 arrows but the more you fire the greater the risk to yourself - gamble mechanic like black jack can go bust. Own mini deck of arrow cards with 1 or 2 arrows per card. Draw cards can stop at any point but 5 arrows is bust and can face a punishment. The more arrows you fire the stronger the attack.
Each class has 3 actions. Attack, move (2 movement points), specials. Wizard can spend an action to get 3 manna tokens.
Manna is now stored as tokens.
Interaction spots - healing fountains, chests. Use action to interact.
Can still trade within a zone.
Undead Queen - Roaming Monster - Will attack lone characters twice but divides attacks if more characters in range. Attack her in a group.
Incubus - Roaming Monster - stronger in shadow - lure him into the light to damage.
Bosses - Unique fighter - boss room scenario specific. Have their own tiles
Reaper Boss - hourglass tokens that get removed - don't let the time go out before killing him or you lose.
Upgrade pack - everything in MD1 usable in MD2 even KS exclusives - everything
No more agents in MD2 they become roaming monsters.
Zombicide Green Horde and Black Plague crossover (only stuff available retail)
Icons added to board to speed up set up - like Starcadia.
Less card decks. 3 item decks, 3 monster decks
Skill sheets become mini cards different effects depending on class. 13 skills total but only use 5 skills in a game.
Decreased starting skills have 1 ability to start with per class plus shadow ability. Choose 1 new skill per level as you level up.
Game scales on number of players - spawn 1 minion per player
Roaming monster has life = no. of players
Mobs get weaker as you kill them. Mobs get 1 black die per mini but lose a black die per mini killed. Black die is their retaliation die.
Can only have 1 of each class in core game as you only get 1 set of resources/cards/counters for each class. Hinted at upgrade kit so you can use multiples of these.
Game can be played with multiples of a class but you will need the upgrade.
New dice cannot use MD1 dice
Yellow and Orange for attack
Blue for defense (one shots only)
Black for mobs
Purple dice = shadow dice - for attacks made from shadows. More swords, more manna, special shadow ability on 1 face
Campaign = Heavenfall has it's own minis, Angels confirmed
Can reach level 10 (one shot level 5 max) . Harder to level up in campaign but new abilities. New deck of skills
New red attack and green defense die in campaign mode to cover the higher skill levels available.
14 scenarios - different to core box - only play 8 in a campaign - branching tree with story book
NPCs/companions - only if you choose to help them
Decisions affect story and outcome
Story Intermissions - town - can get job cards which give a bonus if completed.
Have to go to blacksmith to transmute.
Can gamble in towns.
1 new boss (2 in core)
Artifacts removed new legendary items in Heavenfall replace them. One shots get a specific item.
This sounds so much more like what I wanted from it in the first place- other than a direct tie in to Wrath of Kings, which they could've done and made their whole integrated gaming world, but alas, that didn't happen.
Campaign companions makes me remember the old Capcom game Magic Sword with you unlocking helpers to use as you fought your way through the tower (the Lizardman was the best one btw, and you had a very limited window to acquire him midway through).
Also appreciate that we've got a non-human as a starting hero!
Hush, you just want to join us in the cool kids club! We'll let you be an honorary member.
Is it just me or does the unique game play for each class remind anyone else of Myth? At least in how they have to manipulate their actions differently.
This is making me pretty excited. I never did get around to opening Massive Darkness but this plus that and the ability to use a bunch of the black plague and horde one excite me. I think this line is the only one I still will support CMoN on. They don't eat to much space and they give lots of options for various things and hopefully I can get my kids into it when they're old enough
Upgrade kit details it’s included in the base pledge
UPGRADING THE FIGHT
Jul 27, 2020
In Massive Darkness 2: Hellscape, it’s been 10 years since the Lightbringers defeated the Darkness. However, in real life it’s been less than 10 years since players got their first chance to join the fight with the original release of Massive Darkness. The game was a hit with players, and with the Kickstarter campaign for Massive Darkness 2: Hellscape just around the corner, veteran Lightbringers are rightfully wondering what happens to their favorite characters and enemies from the first game. Will there be a way to use them in the new game? The short answer is YES. For a slightly longer answer, let’s take a look at what’s coming in the Massive Darkness 2 Upgrade Pack.
The Massive Darkness 2 Upgrade Pack will be available Day 1 of the Kickstarter and will be included FOR FREE with every pledge that includes the base game. The upgrade pack will allow players to use their favorite Massive Darkness heroes and monsters in all of the new Massive Darkness 2 scenarios and campaigns. It contains new cards for all the various heroes, roaming monsters, mobs, and agents from the original game, including the expansions and Kickstarter exclusives, allowing the seamless integration of all your familiar favorites.
As with all heroes in Massive Darkness 2: Hellscape, the cards for the original Massive Darkness heroes will tie them to a specific class. These new classes each play wildly different from one-another. We’ll cover more about how exactly they work in an upcoming article. But suffice to say, the heroes will have much the same flavor as before, but upgraded to make them work with the new styles of play.
For the enemies, multiple cards are included for every monster, and specific ones will be used depending on the adventure level. For example, Roaming Monsters have cards for both Level 1-5 as well as Level 6-10. The heroes will have their work cut out for them as all these familiar favorites flood back into the dungeons and dark hallways once more, levelled up and ready to go.
As noted above, the Massive Darkness 2 Upgrade Pack includes cards for the heroes and monsters found in not just the original base game, but also all the expansion packs. So, no matter where your favorite good or bad guy came from, you’ll be able to bring them along with the new exploits of the Lightbringers.
Stay tuned as we get closer to the Massive Darkness 2: Hellscape Kickstarter campaign as we reveal more about the different classes and monsters they will be facing off against. Sign up to be notified on launch!
Did they announce if it will be possible to have the past miniatures for this new edition as well ? Or is it too late and it will be just the new miniatures only ?
Sarouan wrote: Did they announce if it will be possible to have the past miniatures for this new edition as well ? Or is it too late and it will be just the new miniatures only ?
Yes they confirmed that all MD1 miniatures are useable in MD2 via the upgrade kit included with the base pledge. See my post above for details.
Sarouan wrote: Did they announce if it will be possible to have the past miniatures for this new edition as well ? Or is it too late and it will be just the new miniatures only ?
Yes they confirmed that all MD1 miniatures are useable in MD2 via the upgrade kit included with the base pledge. See my post above for details.
Sorry, I meant if the Kickstarter will allow to offer the previous miniatures to buy as well as the new ones. But thanks for the answer !
The Time Machine KS has loads of MD stuff still left.
I would guess that they might possibly offer them during the MD2 campaign. Since everyone with a base pledge gets an upgrade kit, it would make the most sense to offer the stuff that uses the cards for it. I know that Green Horde had Black Plague stuff available as add one, but I think it was only the retail stuff.
So it’s possible there might be at least the base game and retail expansions as add ons.
However, I wouldn’t get your hopes up, just in case.
I'm sure there's going to be so much content that casual gamers won't need any MD1 stuff. Do you guys want it for completionist's sake, or for the consistency in miniature style?
Or how much MD1 did you have to play to use all the miniatures from the KS?
ced1106 wrote: I'm sure there's going to be so much content that casual gamers won't need any MD1 stuff. Do you guys want it for completionist's sake, or for the consistency in miniature style?
Or how much MD1 did you have to play to use all the miniatures from the KS?
I wonder if it was more a concern that the MD1 minis would be left in the dust, and some folks would be bummed - those who didn't want to buy a whole new MD but instead would have been happy with just an upgrade kit to use with the mountains of crap they already had.
My friend who was so frustrated with MD1, but so traumatized he hasn't made any efforts to sell it off, may be looking into getting an upgrade kit (only). No need for all sorts of new stuff
I think he'll still need the core MD2 box. The way classes work is different now and there are likely to be components in the core box that aren't replicated in the upgrade pack (which I'd guess is going to be a deck of cards with updated stats).
From DaveC's posts, I'm seeing upgrade pack cards, but, to play MD2, you still need the MD2 plastic trays and pegs, seen in DaveC's other posts. Like Z, I imagine these other components are only available in the MD2 base game, et. al.. AFAIK, We don't know if any of the upgrade cards refer to rules in an expansion, rather than the MD2 core box.
And, of course, the upgrade cards aren't free. They're bundled into the cost of the pledge. Not only is it a way to get MD1 backers to back MD2, but to get new players buying the old MD1 stuff...!
Faction Attachments - resculpts and generic attachments for existing factions (not Neutral)
Stark - 2 of each except the Guardian (1 only)
- Alt sculpt Swordsword Captain
- Alt Sculpt Umber Champion
- Alt Sculpt Crannogman Warden
- Mormont Veteran
- Crannogman Survivalist
- Winterfell Guardian (mounted)
Lannister - 2 of each except the Butcher (1 only)
- Alt Sculpt Guard Captain
- Alt Sculpt Assault Veteran (Halberd)
- Alt Sculpt Champion of the Faith
- Sentinel Enforcer
- Clegane Butcher (mounted)
- Turncoat (far left of image) - added to enemy unit causes debuffs
Baratheon Attachments - 2 of each except the Noble (1 only)
- Alt Sculpt Stag Knight Noble
- Alt Sculpt Master Warden
- Alt Sculpt Red Priestess (Stanis)
- Highgarden Pikeman Captain (Renly) (tease for new unit release)
- Thorn Guard Sentinel (Renly)
- Dragonstone Noble (mounted) (Stanis) (previously listed as Lord of Dragonstone)
Nightswatch Attachments - 2 of each
- Alt Sculpt Watch Captain
- Alt Sculpt Recruiter
- Hardened Ranger
- Senior Builder - allows unit to build stakes once per game
- Watch Marshal (mounted) (2 profiles)
Greyjoys - durable faction - pillage mechanic - triggers abilities, power up existing abilities need to keep winning - momentum based faction
Monstrous units
- Freefolk get War Mammoths - Large solo tray non siege weapon relatively cheap points wise. Stomp and trample - might lose control of them.
- Targaryen Dragons - Mother of Dragons Hero Box
Apologies for the length if you are on a mobile device
MD2 second Q&A
Rogue
- Has own bag of tokens - pulls 3 tokens at start of round. Tokens give bonuses
- spend a token to buff actions - can get bonus if colours of tokens and dice match - yellow with yellow
- new tokens available when when leveling up, new effects, shadow tokens - shadow mode even when in the light.
- 3 skill trees - Shadow, Poison, 3rd skill draws more tokens can get more actions.
- Poison will cause damage on enemies over time even when you aren't fighting them
- Different tokens can be placed in bag to create different games.
- 4 types of token, movement, attacks, poison, shadow, upgraded tokens eg adds more orange die or more tokens
Shaman - new class
- Shaman track - controls the 4 elements, use mana to increase elemental stats
- if any element is at max at end of turn it can be triggered - 15 mana to max an element
Berserker
- Stance system choose a stance - blood rage, reckless, provoke - more aggressive, agile or defensive
- Takes wounds to get rage tokens which boost actions, movement etc
- Reckless spend rage to get more movement
- Provoke - defensive - more defense dice
- Blood Rage - aggressive - more attacks
- Spend rage to change stance
- Health tokens become rage - trigger abitlities. The more you get wounded the more rage you get.
- Use with healer to extend life and get more rage. Wizard and Paladin can be a healer.
4 roaming monsters in core box - The Ghoul, Andras, Incubus Lord, The Undead Queen
- The Ghoul
- will be attracted to areas of combat and will attack heroes in combat
- consumes minions to heal itself you can force it to eat stronger minions.
2 Bosses - The Reaper and Archangel Micheal
Boss - Corrupted Archangel Michael - 1st boss you fight
- release him from corruption - destroy pillars of corruption - destroy all pillars to win
- escape from him to attack pillars.
- end of fight decision which affects game.
- bosses have dashboards
- Michael has 2 actions - black die (lightning symbol) to start
- track advances at end of phase, Boss gets more black die and gets stronger.
- need to be high skill to defeat bosses
Adds 1 mob - Corrupted Angels
2 Roaming Monsters
Fire Boss
Campaign
Start in Dungeon levels 1 & 2 (Skeleton and Imp minions)
Red - Hell scenarios levels 3, 4 & 5
Purple - Abyss scenarios level 6
Blue - Heaven scenarios levels 7 & 8
Town
- Herbalist - trade a common item for a health potion
- Blacksmith - Spend 3 common items to get 1 epic item
- Inventor - spend 4 epic items to get 1 specific epic item
- Gambling alley - Gamble 2 common items to draw treasure from treasure bag
- Tavern - Jobs cards eg kill 10 mobs , 3 Roaming monsters get a reward - eg adds legendary token to treasure bag
Upgrade pack only brings MD1 stuff into MD2 it does not upgrade MD1 to become MD2 you need MD2 base game to play
Same ditto. Maybe, given the theme, they went with the "in order to destroy the monsters, we had to become them" direction with the heroes.
Well, if MD2 actually has demons I can use as the elemental demons in Gloomhaven, I'll pick it up. After the Blacklist Games KS, it's harder to just throw money at a fantasy miniatures KS for the mini's.
Alpharius wrote: ...I'm VERY disappointed with the MD2 miniatures shown so far!
They don't compare well at all with MD1 - WTF is going on?!?
It looks like they gave Guitton more rein on the design, and we ended up with a lot of stuff that is too far out there to be interpretable. His designs have always been very cartoony, and it seems like that is what we got here, but pushed a bit too far into a sort of modern abstract/geometric interpretation.
Basically cartoons are about simplifying shapes more and more, making the things they represent more and more abstract. This can work well in a 2d medium, but doesn't always work as well when you have to see/give shape to something from all angles. I feel like this is further exacerbated by the scale, where you oftentimes have to literally paint in the depth to get it to read correctly to the viewer's eyes.
The fallen angel's head for example will be very tough to get to read as anything but a weird blob.
I kind of like that they're weird. There will be another dozen heroes, so presumably some of them will be normal, and anyone with even the base set of MD1 or Z:BP has even more. The bulk of the minis will still be grunts and the only one of those I actively dislike is the imp.
There was a huge variety of semi-random stuff in the MD1 stretch goals including both some of the best and worst sculpts, so I wouldn't be too shocked if that was the case again.
I'm waiting for the 2nd box to be shown with all the better sculpts in (that you can't get without also getting the first box) like with zombicide invader and at least one other CMON recenttish CMON project I forget the name of
they're ok but no MD1 (I also don't think the painting helps)
I guess my love of Guiton's art makes me the odd man out.
On the plus side you know we'll have ridiculous piles of plastic by the time the campaign is over so there's bound to be plenty more sculpts... hopefully a bit more reigned in?
...who am I kidding, I hope they just let him go balls out crazy.
@Orlando- are you thinking about Ankh's second box of gods and followers? There were some great sculpts there. You're correct about Invader's precedent as well, but I don't know how that worked out for them in the end.
The paintjobs aren't doing them any favours, they're too removed from Guiton's style to synergize well with the sculpts. Hopefully seeing the artwork and ideally some plain resins/renders will ease some concerns, as well as adding some scale.
But yes, definitely worth remembering the current CMON KS model of frontloading the core items with the weakest sculpts. Ankh bundled some shockingly bad ones with some of the best. I can't really comment on Invader given that stylistically it didn't work for me at all, but they definitely did it with the Blood Rage Digital promos too.
I dunno, I suppose I'll see in a couple of days but right now I'm not feeling most of the models shown, which is a real disappointment. The models in the first set were so good.
MD1 had its fair share of average looking sculpts, it's just easy to forget that given how many fantastic sculpts were in the box. I remember not being to crazy about the Dwarves and their stupid pointy hats, or the elf that looked like she was bowing.
Of everything that could potentially be awful about the coming campaign, the miniatures are the element I'm least worried about.
Oh man, I *LOVED* those pointy hats. That's the real reason goblins and dwarves fight, y'know. Who gets to wear the pointy hats.
I guess the heroes would make decent mercenaries and not-so-heroic NPC's in other games. I'm hoping that MD2 will get me those Gloomhaven elemental demons I'll never find. If not, I already have a ton of generic fantasy figures, pointy hats and all.
Very Rackham'esque sculpts, especially the Imp and Rogue. I'd be tempted to pick them up, but as far as I can tell CMON still refuses to produce their designs in a medium I'm willing to work with.
Yes, these are very Rackham-like designs. It doesn't bother me that much.
What I have more trouble with, though, is that I struggle to see a common pattern within the core box. But maybe that's how Massive Darkness treats the dungeon crawler experience. The heroes so far are very different from each other and some are quite exotic, that's why I'm not attracted to them - they feel too exotic for me, I would rather have the more generic miniatures from MD1.
I do understand they try different things to make it distinct from MD1, though.
I don't get why the Fallen Angels mobs are in the expansion while corrupted Michael is a core boss (same for Fire mobs in the core box and apparently the Fire boss in the expansion - why didn't they just swap the bosses ? Michael would have made a lot more sense in the expansion).
Just to clarify in the Q&A they talked about Corrupted Angel minions in Heavenfall and then they posted the Fallen Angel minion image on Facebook. I interpreted them to be the same thing as names can change in development, it's possible that they are 2 different things.
They also mentioned that the Dungeon, Hell and Heaven parts of the quest are separate settings. They specifically mention Skeletons and Imps in the dungeon setting. It's unlikely that minions will be used outside their own setting so perhaps they went for more unique designs based on the setting they fit into?
I agree that the MD1 heroes are better designs overall and with the upgrade kit they will carryover just fine. I understand them going for something a bit different but they went too far out there design wise this time. MD1 was a bit scatter-gun design wise I think they my stay more focused with designs this time. The Shaman is from the Lightbringer race from MD1. I think the Green Horde Ultimate Survivors set is the best set they've done so far but as that's KS exclusive they won't get MD2 cards.
As others have mentioned I think they've held back some of the better stuff for stretch goals and paid add ons.
Massive Darkness 2 Gameplay video - Sample test scenario not an in game scenario. Be warned it's about 3 and a half hours long using Tabletop Simulator, it starts to drag on after an hour or so.
They also showed the cards for the 8 core minions and 4 Roaming Monsters.
The missing 2 minions are Undead and Succubus
It looks like Fallen Angels are a core minion and Corrupted Angels are something else for Heaven fall.
The "Go" is actually the Ghoul who knew! and the 4th RM is a corrupted angel type - Andras
looking at the arms and wings of those fallen angels makes me a bit worried about how sturdy the minis will be, all too thin and sticking out in places
They’ve already confirmed the upgrade kit is not backward compatible it will only bring the MD1 heroes, minions and roaming monsters into MD2 it will not upgrade MD1 to MD2.
DaveC wrote: They’ve already confirmed the upgrade kit is not backward compatible it will only bring the MD1 heroes, minions and roaming monsters into MD2 it will not upgrade MD1 to MD2.
I'm back and forth on the art style. It really should make those that wanted Wrath of Kings mixed with Massive Darkness, which I know has been a common request from WoK fans here, happy. Overall I don't think it's bad but, like WoK, there are things that don't work for me.
$100 for MD2
$145 for the Core game and Heavenfall
Stretch Goals are a combination of daily unlocks and set value unlocks.
During the campaign, we will take you on a journey down the Dungeons, and whatever crosses our path will be added to your pledge as rewards, be that friend, foe, or simply some great loot.
We will explore 1 new room every day, each with their encounters, throughout the 22 days of campaign! But that’s not all that’s in store for you. Occasionally, we may find a passage to secret rooms with locked chests – these are the Stretch Goals that will also be added to your pledge! However, unlike what we usually do, the contents of each chest will only be revealed once we hit the necessary amount to unlock it.
Unlocking a chest won’t necessarily guarantee the appearance of another right after it. However, rest assured that the secret rooms and their amazing rewards will be constant along our path.
With the constant flow of Daily Rewards combined with secret chests (Stretch Goals) appearing from time to time, by the end of our journey we are sure to have as many rewards as you’re used to see in our campaigns, but with a better and constant pace.
I hope this is successful enough to fund the rest of Ankh’s fulfillment ...and I guess keep CMON afloat long enough to kickstart some funds to finish this one off. That would be nice.
Probably wise to go with a daily unlock model with occasional stretch goal
recent project they've had to rescue as the stretch goals just weren't being reached can't have done them any favours, so this guarantees an email a day
and if they don't put a number on the stretch goals (or only on the next one) they're far freer to respond to how things are going
pleasantly surprised the shipping costs haven't skyrocketed (although they will be an underestimate)
Not sure how I feel about the way they are releasing SG's but I guess in the end it will probably end up being the same, it's not like they didn't shift the numbers the old way to give you the same amount they always intended to from the start.
Not a fan of how few models are in the expansion but the base+expansion did come out about 25$ cheaper than I expected so I'm ok with that.
The models do look better to me with the paintjobs/unpainted there as well. The first couple SG's aren't the best things I've seen (naga are cool but look low on the detail)
I'll either be all in or not at all depending on how the next couple weeks go but so far I'm feeling optimistic.
I feel a bit vindicated that the unpainted models do look closer to what I expected, so that's nice. Shaman definitely the weakest link overall, but unless I've missed something, there's a good chance we'll unlock alternative heroes anyway.
Buer is.....well, spot on for Buer. The Naga feel more disappointing because unlike a lion's head with five goat legs, snakepeople can actually look good.
Wonder how many more of the Seventy-Two Demons will make an appearance?
Buers have always been a thing. I'm alright with it.
Agree with the Naga hands. Way too large.
My prediction is we'll see stuff get added in to the expansion box before the campaign ends. They've done that plenty of times before with Zombicides- Invader and Black Plague for sure.
That's good, I was hoping for more classes. I assume the upgrade pack will sort the old stuff out past more than the original 6 then since I was thinking about it and a couple of them don't fit those too well.
Oh and in case anyone was curious like me, the last time around it was the 45th SG until they started costing 150k to unlock the next one.
edit- and it appears we have already upped that to 200k a tier :/
New Berserker hero already revealed, much better than the core box sculpt. Didn't mind that one too much, but as I said earlier, this bodes well for the Shaman class if we aren't going to be stuck with the core version .
The snakemen looks bad. They are sculpted by Juan Navarro. Not the first time I see this.
I went back to check trudvang again (last CMON KS I backed) and it was also him who sculpted all the bad minis with potato face.
I wonder if he his over-burdened by cmon and so tend to drop the ball on some sculpts, as other minis credited to him looked good, but he really has an inconsistent quality and was the only sculptor for trudvand whose minis looked really bad/unfinished.
xevv wrote: That's good, I was hoping for more classes. I assume the upgrade pack will sort the old stuff out past more than the original 6 then since I was thinking about it and a couple of them don't fit those too well.
Oh and in case anyone was curious like me, the last time around it was the 45th SG until they started costing 150k to unlock the next one.
edit- and it appears we have already upped that to 200k a tier :/
I'm sure it will come back down once funding starts to peter out when we hit the mid-campaign lul.
I appreciate that there is a french version available in the Kickstarter, it sures helps to attract french backers as well.
I guess I'll watch a bit longer and see how many Kickstarter Exclusives we unlock before I pledge. So far, what I've seen is not really mindblowing - I can live with buying a "normal box" at retail, I'll avoid the risks that way.
TBH, I'm not sure if it's wise for me to pledge a CMON Kickstarter right now. What will happen in one year, after all ?
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I hope this is successful enough to fund the rest of Ankh’s fulfillment ...and I guess keep CMON afloat long enough to kickstart some funds to finish this one off. That would be nice.
We don't have any info, either way. And any issues an audit reveals for a public company, wouldn't be visible with a private one -- any most KS are done by private companies. CMON's situation is not ideal, but it's still better than some private companies you and I may have backed.
Still, most CMON base games at retail are half of the price of a pledge plus shipping (in the USA). I'm picking up Z2 and NOTLD retail.
I'm a little surprised at how well this campaign is doing. Coming off a not particularly well received MD 1, with miniatures that certainly aren't widely praised, they are nonetheless crushing it.
I wonder if paradoxically the global pandemic is helping KS campaigns this year, it's doubly important to have something to feel excited about, getting to join in on a game campaign that makes you feel good.
The big problem most had with MD was the campaign, and that does seem to have been addressed
(and despite the audit issues still rattling on in the background it's not front and center like it was last time so the fair weather backers aren't being scared off in large numbers
Monkeysloth wrote: Do we know how big the campaign book will be for this?
14 Scenarios play 8 in a campaign as some levels have multiple paths if that’s what you mean?
Also something that came up last night they have decided to restrict the game to 1 of each class for balance reasons no multiple Wizards or Berserkers only 1 per game. That also means no extra tool kits and any expansion heroes will require the class tool kit from the core game they will not come with a class tool kit.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: The big problem most had with MD was the campaign, and that does seem to have been addressed
Exactly!
The first campaign did really well, the miniatures were great and it was, essentially, the lack of a proper campaign mode that was the biggest 'strike against'.
The promise of a 'good' campaign mode here is a driver, and the miniatures this time around have actaully grown on me a bit - now I rather like them.
(and despite the audit issues still rattling on in the background it's not front and center like it was last time so the fair weather backers aren't being scared off in large numbers
And then there's this too... I highly doubt CMON's issues/troubles/audits are anywhere even close to 'common knowledge'.
I honestly am kind of one the fence still. I'm not seeing much mini wise I actually really like (the Satyr) and most I don't think would be reusable in other games I play. I guess I tend to find the whole heaven/hell stuff boring.
I'm more curious how they will handle the campaign. If it's just a series of scenarios played one after the other, it won't change much from what you can do in Massive Darkness 1. And since the heroes level up quite fast in the adventures with gear that can make them pretty cheesy, I doubt you'd keep everything from one scenario to another.
Or maybe they revamp the entire thing so that the monsters are even more empowered as well ?
I dropped my $1 pledge. I figured I'd follow along, but have quickly realized I can't imagine ever actually pledging for it. I pledged $1 for MD1 and figured I'd get it in the pledge manager, but never did. Although I missed out on a bunch of minis, the smarter half of my brain knows this was the right call as it would have barely gotten any play. And MD2's minis just aren't tempting at all.
Damn that necromancer girl. She's both grumpy and hilarious. I mean, that's her fur animated to undeath so that it lifts her with its tail !
But yeah, the miniature and artwork still have this odd design that feels a bit excentric and out of place. Is that how you see your Lightbringers heroes going to Hell and Heaven fighting the Massive Darkness ? I understand some who answer "no" in the Kickstarter's comments.
Yeah the design is all over the place but between MD1 both Zcs and this I have the minis and rules to make a more coherent game for my own purposes. If someone is only in for MD2 I can see how the concepts and theme might be an issue.
They confirmed that Edouard Guiton is still the lead designer maybe someone needs to oversee in the designs a bit more.
Liliarch from MD1 for example will go well with the Naga and Leader.
Apparently the necromancer is a Harry Potter reference and not just 100% flying rodent gak insane? I'm not sure if that makes it better or worse though.
I really can’t parse out what I’m seeing with that necromancer. From what I can tell she looks like a character out of a failed Howl’s Moving Castle sequel.
To be honest, I don't dislike her. I find her quite funny. Yeah, she looks like a witch, but she's clearly animating her fur and hat made out of dead animals so why wouldn't she be a necromancer in the end ?
The art is actually growing on me, and I see the references here. The whole "Diablo" setting for this new campaign, I dig it.
The comment section of the kickstarter is getting a bit weird, on the other hand. I guess that's normal for CMON projects. I sure don't bother much since people post so fast it's soon buried and forgotten merely 30 minutes later.
I saw a few posts from apparently Massive Darkness 1's backers who raise some concerns about the rules actually not fixing the problems seen in the first one by testing the tabletop simulator demo. Looks like the game was deemed too easy once the first encounters have passed in the first edition, and it seems like this second edition doesn't really change that as well. I didn't play the first one, so I can't say anything about this. Wonder if there are some players here who can say more ?
I like all the post naga unlocks, and I've seen the necromancer (or someone very like her) in an anime although I can't place it (not Howl's moving castle although she'd fit right in)
ecurtz wrote: Apparently the necromancer is a Harry Potter reference and not just 100% flying rodent gak insane? I'm not sure if that makes it better or worse though.
That it is. Also, the Buer (sp) and demon with wings for ears are videogame references.
But I'm not seeing too many backers even noticing this. I certainly didn't. I like the witch sculpture since I'm looking for sculpts for other 28mm games, but maybe the art direction should have been more like MD1.
Monkeysloth wrote: I honestly am kind of one the fence still. I'm not seeing much mini wise I actually really like (the Satyr) and most I don't think would be reusable in other games I play. I guess I tend to find the whole heaven/hell stuff boring.
While I am liking this one, I agree with you - I wish they would've picked a different overall theme too.
I dig all the very Dialo- ish vibes the game is giving off. Satyrs, imps, and undead? Plus angels and stuff? Heck yeah.
My daughter agrees with me that the Necromancer is reminiscent of Howl's Witch of the Waste with a bit of Oz footwear mixed in there.
The hat and animated furs makes me think of something Jim Henson related... not sure why. Maybe something from Labyrinth?
Being a reference is not an excuse to me, if it looks out of place then it looks out of place reference or not.
I hope they are keeping the good stuff for later and that by the end we have enough good stuff to not care about deformed snakemen and snape cosplaying as a granma ...
Bummer. The minis are a big disappointment for me, most of them don't look interesting or appealing at all. I wish they would just offer the upgrade pack for people with MD1 who don't want ANOTHER massive pile...
We've already got an end-table's worth of MD, just let us get the rules for that useless pile of (much nicer looking) stuff!
If you're not planning on playing MD2, and you don't care about MD1's campaign, I don't think the upgrade pack offered in this campaign would be of much use to you at all.
So far, the daily unlocks aren't kickstarter exclusive. And the addons sure aren't.
Honestly, it's better to check it at the end of the campaign. Following it daily isn't that exciting nor hyping, surprisingly enough.
Makes me think it's way better to wait for the product to hit retail. What is kickstarter exclusive is not astounding - some good enough, some "meh"...and like a youtuber said, you don't really need all that extra plastic to play, in the end.
ecurtz wrote: I like the halos, but they're pretty weird. I would be nice if they were optional/detachable.
Nothing that a good modeling knife can't fix. It's just boardgame plastic, in the end...really easy to cut.
Same for the birds people don't like in the comments.
we knew this was going to show up and here she is.
I can't decide if i'm disappointed the snake doesn't look as if it has scales, or relieved that i'm not going to have to try and clean up flash on super tiny pvc scales (but whatever I prefer her minions to her)
Sarouan wrote: So far, the daily unlocks aren't kickstarter exclusive. And the addons sure aren't.
I'll just caveat that, just because a CMON expansion (or even retail product, for ASOIAF) isn't KSE, that doesn't mean you'll find it after the KS. IIRC, A $40 Elementals MD box was not KSE, several backers didn't pick it up during the campaign, and CMON decided not to release it to retail because it was too expensive for them to manufacture -- based on the sales in the KS. Some MD2 backers said they couldn't find MD1 expansions retail, and want MD1 content during the MD2 campaign. AFAIK, They won't get it.
The problem is that, with KS, you know how many units to make, and, with retail, you make an estimate. Enough estimates, and you go out of business. Even if you do know how many units you will sell, your printer may have a minimum. That's what happened to the Conan KS. They didn't think they'd make the minimum for some expansions, and these expansions are still OOP. Some new creators using KS print slightly more than the number of units for their backers (printers have various minimum numbers to scale production costs) and only put the remainder, after replacements, on their web store.
BGG'ers often make a big deal about availability, but these are the same people who make up the Cult of the New. If gamers are focused on the newest game, businesses are receiving a clear message that they shouldn't spend their resources keeping in print an older one.
Oh, and I like the nymph boss, although I somehow suspect she'd break into an aria or something.
Funny, I thought the background of the nymphs in Massive Darkness would be more about some celestial beings getting corrupted. In fact, that's kinda what they are, especially when you see how their leader looks. Wonder why they bother talking about nature spirits...but well, I guess Massive Darkness isn't there for being coherent with their story.
And beautiful women with snakes...pretty much obvious they're meant to be a reference to Eve meeting the snake before Adam and her get kicked out of Eden. No wonder some christians are a bit irritated with the biblical references while being presented as enemies in the game.
Sarouan wrote: So far, the daily unlocks aren't kickstarter exclusive. And the addons sure aren't.
I'll just caveat that, just because a CMON expansion (or even retail product, for ASOIAF) isn't KSE, that doesn't mean you'll find it after the KS. IIRC, A $40 Elementals MD box was not KSE, several backers didn't pick it up during the campaign, and CMON decided not to release it to retail because it was too expensive for them to manufacture.
Sarouan wrote: So far, the daily unlocks aren't kickstarter exclusive. And the addons sure aren't.
I'll just caveat that, just because a CMON expansion (or even retail product, for ASOIAF) isn't KSE, that doesn't mean you'll find it after the KS. IIRC, A $40 Elementals MD box was not KSE, several backers didn't pick it up during the campaign, and CMON decided not to release it to retail because it was too expensive for them to manufacture.
It's a perfect example. Miniaturemarket has been sold out for 6 plus months on it. I kept track for a long time. CMON replied to my email after the KS shipped and everything else was available in the store to tell me that they were NOT doing another run of the elementals as there wasn't enough demand for it during the KS. I was out of luck. They later realized how much demand there was and made another run. THe amazon ones are at a 40% premium price $56.09 instead of $40 out of gouging. The Asmodee store has been trying to calculate my shipping by zip code for the last 5 minutes, and i'm in the US, so shouldn't be too hard. (suppossedly free shipping by economy unless i want expedited shipping).
So yeah, you can find some time to time, MM picked up about 20 of them 6+ months ago when they bought another huge chunk of CMON warehouse, but they cannot reorder it from asmodee, neither can my other FLGS (MM is in my town and i have a good relationship with a few of their employees).
SMOG Rise of the Moloch had a couple expansions as well. I really wanted the Oriental themed one, not KS exclusive, but it never made it to the stores either.
Ceds argument was that box never went to retail. It did and was available until probably last month as I know. I almost bought it several times from amazon this year for under $40 with free shipping. And it's still purchasable from Azmodee. MM doesn't have it as they don't want to carry it -- not because they cannot.
Monkeysloth wrote: Ceds argument was that box never went to retail. It did and was available until probably last month as I know. I almost bought it several times from amazon this year for under $40 with free shipping. And it's still purchasable from Azmodee. MM doesn't have it as they don't want to carry it -- not because they cannot.
I've asked and if you look at their daily updates (which I do daily), you can see they order quantities in from CMoN all the time. I have been told by long term employees there and by their customer service team that they can NOT get it. It's not that they won't order it because they don't want to. I have no reason to disbelieve them as they great me by name when I enter their store and when there's not a global pandemic going on I show up and hang out talking with them. I do most of my purchases there and have for many years. When their warehouse was their retail store outlet a few years ago I would stop by 2-3 times a week and was on much better talking terms with their management. Since they have moved the store separate from the warehouse I don't get to see them except when they are at the store for a game (once again not for a while with the pandemic going on and lower capacity for gaming at the shop).
So these may have hit retail, but MM also orders the retailer pledges from CMoN so their initial stock was probably their KS stuff. Any refill they have recieved has been from CMON clearing out their warehouse and not from being able to do a trade order. So yes, you are both right, and both pretty , because retail stores have back channels to get these items, but they are not available for general release. So for them to get more they would have to order it at full Asmodee website cost and then mark it up more, which is not their business model.
Asmodee having them is because they own them. They are not retail, and are them selling from their regular backstock that they hold for conventions. These are the left over dribbles and dreggs of how much they had to order from the factory to have a production run minus the quantity ordered in the KS. It is not still in production and reserved for special events, or when CMON needs to pay rent and sells off a ton of stuff to MM to get an influx of funds.
Amazon sellers are not necessarily stores so much as individuals who will buy multiple KS bundles and resell parts for profit, once their stock is depleted its off to the next KS, no reorders for them.
Alpharius wrote: "Unlocking" the components for the new Monk class - but not including the actual miniature for the Monk?
Fairly lame move.
It will be tomorrows unlock, and probably the day after. I assume the monk (like the necromancer stuff) will form some 25$ or so box of stuff to buy singular.
But yea, doing a card for a daily is super lame. But Im not surprised, figured it after they did the 2nd necromancer model. Probably even see some 3rd or more class before this is over.
So far Im underwhelmed by the unlocks/SG's so far, just hasn't been enough of them, guess well see where it ends up by the times its over.
Oh, I should clarify then. I meant both if it made it to retail, but also that the expansion is easily available.
Sorry, boardgamer here. We're not used to limited supplies of expansions. Before KS, particularly CMON, a boardgame would have, at most, eight or so expansions (eg. Arkham Horror). They would be released over a long period of time, and you could buy them one at a time. It's not like, say, the CCG or GW (?) model where the audience is used to scarcity.
Personally, I've broken the FOMO habit (I'm a min/max'er but I still see backers who presume anything non-KSE will be available retail. That's "available" as in "I can buy it whenever I want at MSRP or lower like any other game I buy", not "have to hunt down a copy and pay even more".
****
Monk reminds me of the Spellweaver class in Gloomhaven. Wonder how many "interesting choices" a Monk has during the game, though.
Speaking of Gloomhaven, I'm seeing some proxy miniatures in MD2 for GH monsters, many hard to find. Some fit better than others. Unless you're playing Random Dungeons, six figures is a good number. Unless mentioned, MD2 comes with 6 mob and 1 leader figure.
Spoiler:
Good fit:
Skeletons - Living Bones (10)
Undead - Living Corpse (6)
Fire Entities (6) - Flame Demons (6)
Reasonable fit:
Gargoyles - Wind Demon (6)
Whatever - Night Demon (6) - (high melee damage and hard to hit)
Naga - Giant Viper (10)
Nymphs (mob) - Forest Imp (10)
Whatever melee - Vicious Drake (6) - (high melee damage with the ability to cause extra damage over time)
Fallen Angel - Sun Demon (6)
Personally, if I can find s proxy for the ice demons, I'm sold...
Personally, I've broken the FOMO habit (I'm a min/max'er but I still see backers who presume anything non-KSE will be available retail. That's "available" as in "I can buy it whenever I want at MSRP or lower like any other game I buy", not "have to hunt down a copy and pay even more".
Well, yeah. CMON games are usually possible to buy at a lower price than the KS once it hits retail. People interested just watch the project from afar, often putting 1$ in the KS so that they don't miss the updates, and they avoid the risks inherent to that while not putting their money upfront in a one or two years pre-order.
Because that's what all CMON Kickstarters are, most of the time. Huge pre-orders.
I understand you want more people to back the KS so that more exclusive "free" stuff is unlocked, so I believe your arguments are a bit turned towards that purpose - what you're doing here is actually a common excuse for FOMO - "pledge in the KS because maybe not all expansions will be available at retail". This is the definition of Fear Of Missing Out.
If you truly break that, then you don't care much to wait. And if I don't find everything once it hits retail...well, maybe I can just play with what I have and not encumber myself with big boxes of bloated content that take a lot of space on my shelves ? In the end, do you really need to have the whole collection to have fun ? I honestly believe the core box and Heavenfall will be safe to assume to see at retail - the rest, well...yeah, they add more monsters and cards, but that's not really impacting the playstyle as much as Heavenfall, I think.
And let's be honest, once it will be available, how many hundred other new games will be there to grab our gamer's attention ?
About Gloomhaven, honestly most of the miniatures are generic dungeon monsters. You have already plenty of sources to find cheap (and non unique !) monsters that are doing the job just fine, without having to wait for Massive Darkness 2 to hit retail. Just take the painted Dungeon and Dragon miniatures on second hand sites and you'll find any monster you ever dreamed about. Moreover, one of the weak points of this KS is actually the miniatures that aren't really that astonishing. It's more trying to justify your pledge to MD2 than really find nice miniatures, IMHO.
The rest of the ASOIAF reveals from CMON Asia Expo
Unsullied Pikemen
Targaryen Hrakkar
Free Folk Attachment Box
Baratheon Champions of the Stag
Baratheon Kingsmen
R'Hllor Lighbringers
House Greyjoy Iron Makers
House Greyloy Heroes
Alot of great Song of Ice and Fire models there - not sure about the unsullied (also look more like spears than pikes) but the rest are really impressive.
Dispaointed that the Dothariki and Lions seem to be duplicates....
Definitely a shame that the Hrakkars are duplicate. Never been bothered by the repeat poses in infantry blocks, but when it's large special units representing wild animals, feels a bit disappointing.
Rest looks great though, very keen for more Baratheons and the Greyjoys are becoming a fast favourite
Tim the Biovore wrote: Definitely a shame that the Hrakkars are duplicate. Never been bothered by the repeat poses in infantry blocks, but when it's large special units representing wild animals, feels a bit disappointing.
Rest looks great though, very keen for more Baratheons and the Greyjoys are becoming a fast favourite
Yeah given the likely prices havig four different lions and four different riders seems the least they should have done. I am that same re infantry - not a big deal. At least Dany and her Dragons are all different.
The others would seem to work as stand ins for alot of different armies
but will it stop the backsliding that's started, i'm not convinced, too many folk aren't happy with the sculpts, with the hell/heaven theme
(now I can't say i'm thrilled with them all but the chances of resculpts on all but the odd one is pretty much nill, and scrapping the hell & heaven theme isn't going to happen)
since cmon has caved every time a project has hit trouble I fear that they're expecting it again
Oh, I should clarify then. I meant both if it made it to retail, but also that the expansion is easily available.
Sorry, boardgamer here. We're not used to limited supplies of expansions. Before KS, particularly CMON, a boardgame would have, at most, eight or so expansions (eg. Arkham Horror). They would be released over a long period of time, and you could buy them one at a time. It's not like, say, the CCG or GW (?) model where the audience is used to scarcity.
Ya. That make more sense. CMoN only really seams to reprint Bloodrage stuff. But I also think it's their most retail friendly game (cost and expansion size wise).
Also why does like almost everything from ASOIF look so awesome? I generally really dislike knights, armored fighters and so on but just about everything this line release is "oh, I really like that".
ASOIF is coproduced by Dark Sword Miniatures as they hold the miniature licence so I suspect they have quite a heavy say with the design of the models.
And with Riya joining the group, we end the exploration of this part of the Dungeon! We have just completed a full Expansion, the Monks & Necromancers vs The Paragon, which will be available at retail later on, but you are getting it for free!
and with that I suspect we have an expansion that will only briefly show up at retail as the remainder of the minimum production run needed to fulfil the KS (lots of complaints about the necromancers, even more about the paragon and with the monks only getting a tepid reception)
Bit of a mundane expansion, all things considered. I like the Paragon, and the Monks are decent if not perhaps a bit flashy (I dread the comparison alongside the MD1 heroes, the same way Green Horde survivors completely outdo the Black Plague ones). Necromancers are fine sculpts, but their designs are just a bit too anachronistic for me, even in such a non-descript setting.
Good thing it's a freebie then, I guess?
Horsemen are very nice, though. Someone in the comments compared them unfavorably to the Joan of Arc Horsemen, but I think the relatively simple design is actually works much better. I wasn't wowed by the Gates of Hell expansion, but this really did it for me.
Also, I hadn't noticed that the starting gate on the unlock map was clearly alluding to the Monks. Based on the plants and vines, it seems a safe bet to expect Druids to appear in the second unlocked expansion. Very interested in that.
With her deeper connection to Light and Radiance, Gera is a particularly powerful Paladin, able to naturally channel healing properties and regeneration spells into her Aura. When Darkness surrounds her, she is able to bend it into a protective energy for her allies that builds up the more she uses it.
(When not fighting the Darkness, Gera moonlights as an Elmer Fudd double and opera singer)
Day 8 unlocks - this new tile is more forest spirit themed
Upgrade the upgrade pack - MD1 quests updated for MD2 and tiles made compatible - you still require MD 2 to play this does not make MD1 into MD2.
Many of you expressed an interest in being able to play the Quests from the original Massive Darkness with Massive Darkness 2, and the Prologue Campaign does exactly that. We have been studying this since the beginning of the campaign and we’re happy to announce that not only it’s possible but we’re also adding this booklet to the Upgrade Pack for all backers, which brings the Massive Darkness Core Box and Crystal and Lava Quests adapted to be played with Massive Darkness 2.
In tandem with that, we are also changing how the tile elements and the tiles themselves are connected in Massive Darkness 2. Another feedback received was that with the elements (Mob Spawn, Treasure Spawn, Normal Chest, Fountain, etc) being printed on the tiles in MD2, the ability to create your own Quests and layouts is diminished, and it also made the tiles incompatible between MD1 and MD2. Therefore we'll make the tiles on MD2 be illustrated without these elements and feature them as tokens on the Massive Darkness 2: Hellscape Core Box. This change will not not only give you more flexibility when creating your own Quests, but also make compatible all tiles from Massive Darkness 1 and Massive Darkness 2.
And that's not all: We have plans for a few more Upgrade Pack-related Stretch Goals, and the next one is not far!
They've added a new stretch goal in a $1750K now too, seems the Horsemen expansion might not have made as much impact as they'd hoped.
Dark Pixies themselves are a bit underwhelming, but perhaps they'll help shift the setting enough to make the core box Shaman look a bit more at home. Might have been wrong about the unlocked gate suggesting Druids too, a sort of "Dark Woods" enemy box is just as likely too now.
Still underwhelmed with most models and the direction (would have preferred more traditional fantasy rather than heaven and hell) but the mission book upgrading MD 1 missions to MD2 has made it much more likely that I will keep my pledge.
Pre-orders for Arcadia Quest: Usagi Yojimbo end this Friday!
In case you missed the announcement during CMON’s live streams, we have also added shipping for the EU and UK. These adorable questers can’t wait to cross the sea! Do you plan on keeping them together in a single guild or mixing and matching with your current chibi favorites?
And the Zombicide (fantasy) crossover pack is now available - Necromantic Dragon Boss!
Zombicide Fantasy Survivors as Massive Darkness Hellscape Heroes
This Crossover Pack comes with 25 Hero Cards to bring the main Zombicide Fantasy Survivors as Heroes for Massive Darkness 2: Hellscape:
6 Heroes from the Black Plague core box
4 Heroes from the Wulfsburg expansion
5 Heroes from the Hero Box-1 expansion
6 Heroes from the Green Horde core box
4 Heroes from the Friends and Foes expansion
Zombicide Fantasy Zombies as Massive Darkness 2: Hellscape Enemies
The Crossover Pack includes 54 Mob cards, 30 Roaming Monster cards and 1 Boss dashboard to bring many Zombies as Mobs, Roaming Monsters, and 1 Boss:
Walkers from the Black Plague core box as a Mob, with a Fatty as Leader
Runners from the Black Plague core box as a Mob, with the Abomination as Leader
Wolfz from the Wulfsburg as a Mob, with the Wolfbomination as Leader
Deadeye Walkers as a Mob, using one sculpt as the Minions, and another as the Leader
Orc Walkers from the Green Horde core box as a Mob, with a Fatty as Leader
Orc Runners from the Green Horde core box as a Mob, with the Orc Abomination as Leader
Tainted Walkers from Friends and Foes as a Mob, with Tainted Abomination as Leader
Spectral Walkers from No Rest for the Wicked as a Mob using one sculpt as the Minions, and another as the Leader
Swarm of Ratz from No Rest for the Wicked as a Mob using 2 sculpts as the Minions, and the third one as the Leader
Necromancer from the Black Plague core box as a Roaming Monster
Abominatroll from the Zombie Bosses Abomination Pack as a Roaming Monster
Ablobination from the Zombie Bosses Abomination Pack as a Roaming Monster
Abominotaur from the Zombie Bosses Abomination Pack as a Roaming Monster
Orc Necromancer from the Green Horde core box as a Roaming Monster
Necromantic Dragon from No Rest for the Wicked as a Boss
Massive Darkness 2: Hellscape Heroes as Zombicide Fantasy Survivors
This Crossover Pack comes with Survivor ID Cards to bring the Massive Darkness 2: Hellscape Heroes as Zombicide Fantasy Survivors (compatible with both Zombicide Black Plague and Green Horde):
6 Heroes from the Massive Darkness 2: Hellscape core box
6 Heroes from unlocked Stretch Goals/Daily Rewards
ANY other characters we reveal during this campaign!
Finally, the Crossover Pack Comes with a set of mini cards to bring Roaming Monsters and Bosses as Zombicide Abominations:
The Reaper from the Massive Darkness 2: Hellscape core box
Baalberith from Heavenfall
A Horseman from 4 Horsemen
Cerberus from Gates of Hell
By reaching this Stretch Goal, we’re adding 164 Roaming Monster cards to the Upgrade Pack, adding more level cards to the ported Roaming Monsters of Massive Darkness so their number of cards matches with Massive Darkness 2 Roaming Monsters!
Initially with one card for levels between 1-5 and one for levels between 6-10, now the Upgrade Pack contains all 6 cards for the levels, increasing the appearance of these foes in the Dungeon and slightly tweaking their escalation as the levels get higher!
I like the Hell themed design of the doors but I have the Zc fantasy doors and the MD1 chests and pillars. I might think about the Hellscape set in the PM if I have $20 to spare. I often find the 3D elements to be more of a hinderance than a help (but keep buying them ) but the plastic token packs are a great upgrade (whenever that appears)
And the Mist Rogue was unlocked overnight. That leaves 3 more gender swapped core set heroes to go - male Shaman, female Ranger and wizard.
Followed that MM link to find out there was a Ken Follett’s Pillars of the Earth board game. Now nothing will surprise me.
Those terrain add one look pretty good. The pillars especially would be a nice deal...if I had to already bought several cake topper columns for that purpose.
Are there a lot of Bears in Hell? I mean you need 4 bear traps for a board the size of a small table, I guess Yogi and BooBoo have been stealing a lot of pic-i-nic baskets from the denizens of Hell
After the Nagas I was pretty much done, but seeing the next stuff after it, I like it. I think the cartoony fantasy design works pretty well. I'm going to get it, at least for the minis which are already a pretty decent value with quite a bit of campaign to go.
Perhaps their financial troubles have caused them to quit getting so stingy, also the obligatory $45 expansion probably helps there too.
No, I am massively underwhelmed... didn't intent that pun, but I will stick with it, The only interesting part of this campaign is the rules change for the previous one...
I liked the art choices/sculpts better in MD1 some of them in MD2 are pretty iff,
but a lot of it is ok (and some I really like)
the hell/heaven theme is fine (it's not as if they hadn't already done a significant chunk of the freely usable dungeon monsters, especially if you add in zombicide too)
I think not having the hero unlocks being obvious pop culture references is hurting them (chat about that dilutes the moaning and demanding in the comments), and having gender equality means we know 'oh there's a female monk up soon' again removing some of the excitement
I liked the art choices/sculpts better in MD1 some of them in MD2 are pretty iff,
but a lot of it is ok (and some I really like)
the hell/heaven theme is fine (it's not as if they hadn't already done a significant chunk of the freely usable dungeon monsters, especially if you add in zombicide too)
I think not having the hero unlocks being obvious pop culture references is hurting them (chat about that dilutes the moaning and demanding in the comments), and having gender equality means we know 'oh there's a female monk up soon' again removing some of the excitement
Tbis one feels like a Supernatural reference at least.
Hmmm, interestingly the pop-culture references and generally "LULZ!" attitude is what I liked least about CMON products in the past. MD2 seems a little more thematically serious, it's cartoony, but it's not, "Hey check out this mini of President Clinton but he's a D&D character! XD"
Now that I'm converted and stanning for it, I think the value for the minis is really good (probably finish with 125-130 give or take), and I just like all the mobs and variety better than MD1.
I'm not overly disappointed, but I'm not overly enthusiastic either.
MD1 really had a great look and feel - this one doesn't quite reach the same level, but it has grown on me during the campaign and is still quite good.
Looking forward to what else is revealed and the contents (and price!) of the inevitable 'all in' pledge!
I see the value in this overall. I backed it so far but I have never been more on the fence in awhile. The add ons are nice but the over all pledges are meh.. Even with the kickstarter exclusives, I see several models I like but the whole angel/ devil thing just has been over played in the past and I don't see flying stuff in a pub crawl kind of game that Zombicide etc usually is.
Thinking about pulling the plug on this maybe dropping to a dollar just to see what happens.
I'm in for what is 210 so far. Don't see myself backing out although I am hoping for some nice stuff without wings for the rest of the stretch.
More painful for me is the chunk of money it's going to cost me to grab the crossover stuff I don't have (assuming it even comes back in stock at some point)
Actually it's not entirely just that, its also the fact that by the time I have bought all that, I have close enough to everything for black plague that... it makes me want to finish that out and spend more money. Bleh
Didn't back GH or Z2 because of the pop culture references, although the earlier Z references were fine. The BP ones were also good, because they weren't some modern-day character in a medieval outfit.
Too much variance in theme and sculptures in this KS for me, but I have plenty of miniatures already. Would like CMON to do a terrain KS, perhaps with 3D game tiles that fit with their games.
And with Queen Caenedra rounding up her minions, we end the exploration of this part of the Dungeon! We have just completed an Enemy Box, the Feyfolk Enemy Box, which will be available at retail later on, but you are getting it for free!
xevv wrote: I'm in for what is 210 so far. Don't see myself backing out although I am hoping for some nice stuff without wings for the rest of the stretch.
More wings!!! - these are going to be very Marmite they aren't going down well in the comments but I've nothing like them in my collection and I can see the funny side. I think this new "Rainbow" tile is going to be all sorts of weird.
I like 'em. Bit of cheeky KSE fun, like Chromatis in MD1.
I get that they're quite far removed from being typical dungeon crawl enemies, but I think we all knew better than to expect that after we saw a centaur ranger in the core offerings.
EDIT: Next daily unlock seems to be a pair of chibi pegasus; one Heaven themed (feathered wings) and one Hell themed (bat wings). Rainbow tile is definitely going to be weird.
I like the fact they're unlocking all at once instead of over 3 days or stretches (mob, leader, cards)
once thing I do wonder is if they can hollow out the halo for the leader here, why not for some of the others where the dinner plate look has not gone down well
(unless this is a revision? and the others will be changed later)
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: once thing I do wonder is if they can hollow out the halo for the leader here, why not for some of the others where the dinner plate look has not gone down well
(unless this is a revision? and the others will be changed later)
The dinner plates aren't technically halos, I think; they're meant to be either heavenly light, or the corrupted void, depending on the model. Empress Ytheria in the core box has an open spiked collar, so it'd be a bit weird if it wasn't 100% intentional.
This made me laugh more so because of how some backers are going to freak out over it - where's that popcorn. There is only 1 more day of these rainbow themed set (which appear to be tiles in the preview) and then the last 7 days are back to a more normal set. You ask for Chromatis don't be surprised when CMON doubles down.
No complex mechanics, yet adds some excitement through randomness.
Are there a lot of Bears in Hell? I mean you need 4 bear traps for a board the size of a small table, I guess Yogi and BooBoo have been stealing a lot of pic-i-nic baskets from the denizens of Hell 
