GW's factories are offline and might be until June or later with things in the UK right now. So chances are even GW has no actual idea when they'll come on sale - esp since GW will have a huge backlog of stock to resupply when they come online anyway. Chances are there will be two, three maybe more weeks when all GW will need to do to serve the market is produce what they currently make. And that's just considering UK stock not factoring in that some international regions might remain on lockdowns and international post might be delayed further.
We might actually see GW forced to release things at different times in different regions or take pre-orders in some regions that have to be held in limbo
Standard studio schemes also tend to be simpler to emulate. Where possible you'll see they avoid difficult colours (eg yellows) or blendings of colours etc.... Bold bright and clear colours tend t be popular.
I hope htey get some tutorials for other schemes - its something I think GW dropped the ball on for Ossiarchs - though I think considering we saw Duncan leaving GW at around that time it might be that his leaving left a gap in the workflow that wasn't filled at that time.
Overread wrote: Standard studio schemes also tend to be simpler to emulate. Where possible you'll see they avoid difficult colours (eg yellows) or blendings of colours etc.... Bold bright and clear colours tend t be popular.
I hope htey get some tutorials for other schemes - its something I think GW dropped the ball on for Ossiarchs - though I think considering we saw Duncan leaving GW at around that time it might be that his leaving left a gap in the workflow that wasn't filled at that time.
They hadn't really been doing tutorials tied to the release schedule for a while (other than for Underworlds).
Carlovonsexron wrote: I thinking GW will be smarter than that, as the scalping would be insane
Does GW care though? Scalping is insane already with limited releases. GW doesn't care though as they get money either way. Scalper or non scalper. Money is same for GW
Later on this week, we’ll be further exploring two reveals from our most recent Warhammer Preview – the apparently-not-just-stories-after-all Sons of Behemat…
The other reveal is the Daemonifuge miniatures. For the Sons of Behemat I'm expecting at the most an article on the Aleguzzler Garagant and GW saving the new miniatures for Preview 3 on Saturday.
Later on this week, we’ll be further exploring two reveals from our most recent Warhammer Preview – the apparently-not-just-stories-after-all Sons of Behemat…
The other reveal is the Daemonifuge miniatures. For the Sons of Behemat I'm expecting at the most an article on the Aleguzzler Garagant and GW saving the new miniatures for Preview 3 on Saturday.
Well besides new Gargants, I expect there being reveal of the rest of the Lumineth line.
Carlovonsexron wrote: I thinking GW will be smarter than that, as the scalping would be insane
Does GW care though? Scalping is insane already with limited releases. GW doesn't care though as they get money either way. Scalper or non scalper. Money is same for GW
That's true. Although another avenue they might pursue is that having the Chinese company that has manufactured underworlds war bands for them in the past pick up production of some things (I would hope at least warcry stuff assuming it all hasn't already been produced in the UK and is just awaiting shipping out, as I feel the Lumineth stuff might be)
I think GW has to be careful with outsourcing its production of miniatures to China too much. Part of their business and company structure is UK production and they just spent a huge amount of millions building a new UK factory. Furthermore if you've followed any Kickstarters there can be a legion of problem with factories in Chian - esp when producing high and fine detail products in quality and quantity.
The stuff from china that GW orders is typically slightly less detailed - like Endless Spells and terrain. Even then GW had one whole batch of terrain with the wrong amount of sprue in the box which wasn't spotted until it was shipping to customers. Which is an issue that I've heard before in that if problems arise in the factory in China is more likely to just keep going with no one reporting/checking until it emerges into the customers hands.
GW keeping production of their core product in-house means that they are in total control. Mistakes are theirs, but also far swifter to be fixed and they can at least adapt their core production on the fly as they need to. If production is half a world away and will take several months to arrive that's ok for a bulk order ot get started, but it means that production overall can't adapt fast to a changing market.
In addition it would mean producing at least double the moulds.
I think if any region gets its own casting facilities it would be the USA. That would make the most sense as its one of the biggest potential regions to produce for and would still allow GW to remain easily in control over their own product (GW setting up their own factory in China might come with way way way more red tape).
I really like it. They should have painted the studio army like that.
They most likely went with the color scheme that they did to play on the ties to the old High Elves.
That would certainly make sense.
Overread wrote: Standard studio schemes also tend to be simpler to emulate. Where possible you'll see they avoid difficult colours (eg yellows) or blendings of colours etc.... Bold bright and clear colours tend t be popular.
I'm sure GW has good reasons for picking the studio color schemes, but I have a hard time believing this is it. AoS has Ironjaws, and 7th ed 40k featured Bad Moons and Iyanden as the factional poster boys in that edition. Had that happened after releasing Contrast, OK, but it's been before that when painting yellow was as hard as ever.
Later on this week, we’ll be further exploring two reveals from our most recent Warhammer Preview – the apparently-not-just-stories-after-all Sons of Behemat…
The other reveal is the Daemonifuge miniatures. For the Sons of Behemat I'm expecting at the most an article on the Aleguzzler Garagant and GW saving the new miniatures for Preview 3 on Saturday.
Probably. GW has randomly revealed models before on Warhammer Community even though they had a preview event not long before, but it's rare and it's more likely going to be a fluff primer than model pictures, with the dedicated online preview showing off the models instead.
If they show them during this preview at all, of course.
Will be fun to see how the models look. I'm not a fan of the current giant and preferred the metal one before it. The sketches look like they'll tie in with the giant to keep it as a unit in the army without looking off, so there's a good chance the army won't be for me.
Because we know that the card items were produced in China, and if anything happens like that GW usually marks it "produced in China".
I've bought 2 godsworn hunts and one set of the tzeentch guys and they have all been made in china according to the packaging which says made in UK on all the standard kits. I reckon if you go to a store and take a look on any kits from around that time you have a decent chance of seeing it.
Because we know that the card items were produced in China, and if anything happens like that GW usually marks it "produced in China".
I've bought 2 godsworn hunts and one set of the tzeentch guys and they have all been made in china according to the packaging which says made in UK on all the standard kits. I reckon if you go to a store and take a look on any kits from around that time you have a decent chance of seeing it.
My Zarbag's Gitz and The Wurmspat both say 'Made In The UK'.
Because we know that the card items were produced in China, and if anything happens like that GW usually marks it "produced in China".
I've bought 2 godsworn hunts and one set of the tzeentch guys and they have all been made in china according to the packaging which says made in UK on all the standard kits. I reckon if you go to a store and take a look on any kits from around that time you have a decent chance of seeing it.
That's odd, Godsworn Hunts and Mollogb Mob are the 2 widely known to be Made in China. Eye of the Nine "made in china" however, I haven't seen it yet. And most of the stuff I bought were from GW distributor in China.
Maybe the Chinese version is made in china, I only bought English version though.
Carlovonsexron wrote: Yeah, that stuff comes from after GW got the second production line going. I'm not the only one to see made in China for underworlds stuff though:
Dunno then, I've only bought the English versions of the kits as I don't read Chinese.
Maybe I made a mistake about eyes of the nine? I know my god sworn hunts came from across the straight though, as I just bought one for conversion purposes a few weeks ago.
Overread wrote: Standard studio schemes also tend to be simpler to emulate. Where possible you'll see they avoid difficult colours (eg yellows) or blendings of colours etc.... Bold bright and clear colours tend t be popular.
I'm sure GW has good reasons for picking the studio color schemes, but I have a hard time believing this is it. AoS has Ironjaws, and 7th ed 40k featured Bad Moons and Iyanden as the factional poster boys in that edition. Had that happened after releasing Contrast, OK, but it's been before that when painting yellow was as hard as ever.
I like to think it has something to do with locating product on the shelf. I don't know the AoS scheme as well, but I did notice the white packaging compared to 40k's more black packaginh. But whatever store I go into if I want space marines, I go to the area with blue, Orks and their yellow, Chaos Space Marines Black and so on. Sure, there are things that buck this trend (Eldar, BA, DA and SW most notably) but the colors for most factions are different enough from each other that from across the store and without my glasses one I can easily go straight toward faction I am looking for base on color alone. The only kinda tricky one is Tau and Genestealers as they are both kinda white with the Tau being a brighter white with red while the GSC being more a gray with orange/brown.
I don't if this is actually what GW was going for, but it makes sense to me.
The Realm of Light looks, to me, very much like how Plato described Atlantis in The Critias. That would also tie in kind of nicely with the general “fantasy Mediterranean” theme of some of the models and would also lead to a fairly obvious story line for GW to pursue if they want to have more big, storyline moving, narrative arcs.
All that said, I do still think the new elves look incredibly silly with those helmets. Shades of the old “big hat” Chaos dwarves. Or maybe they’re secretly Jagermonsters.
But, assuming those heads are not inexorably molded into the bodies (as often seems to be the case with GW’s newer molding designs), I can see a ready opportunity for some of the after-market resin bits creators to come up with a solution that doesn’t look so silly...
It's a conversion using the old (OOP) arcane ruins set.
Hopefully the new kits are a similar size to the Mantic giant (even if that was accidentally made too big) I have 2 spare I could add in and they can be got for £20 each the GW kit will probably be £60+ possibly up to £100 like an Imperial Knight sure the old Aleguzzler is £40 as it is. A box set of 2 aleguzzlers with an extra accessory and parts sprue would be nice I know they have a lot of options already but more is always good and the poses can be a bit samey.
As mentioned above, its a conversion. And one done pretty much at the start of AOS, so I wouldn't look too heavily into it. The same with Brogg (which is who the pillar giant is meant to represent), since he was designed with only the old giant sprue in mind, hence why he's basically just a slightly converted gargant.
As mentioned, it is a conversion. The skull on Brodd's head comes from the Aleguzzler Gargant kit where it is used for the club. That particular pic was used for the Sons of Behemat warscroll in the Godbeasts book in 2016.
I’d say the new gargant types will be bigger.
From all the little cartoon type sketches they’ve shown, these things are huge.
Currently we have the normal gargant and the bonegrinder, the teaser mentioned 3 other types, so I’d bet we have a triple kit maybe for those.
One was hinted but no more than that.
If there is it’s likely to be thrown in with the new gargant kit as extras like with all the newer big models.
It would be odd not to have a special character after all the new multi kits that have one.
They would also need one to centre the fluff around as that’s what they’ve always done.
Saturday is the next teaser and their article states we will know more then.
I’m honestly expecting a triple kit with a character option thrown in.
Only weird thing would be seeing where the bonegrinder fits or if they will just retire the kit.
I can’t see the new ones being between that and a gargant for size in all honesty.
Jackal90 wrote: I’d say the new gargant types will be bigger.
From all the little cartoon type sketches they’ve shown, these things are huge.
Currently we have the normal gargant and the bonegrinder, the teaser mentioned 3 other types, so I’d bet we have a triple kit maybe for those.
One was hinted but no more than that.
If there is it’s likely to be thrown in with the new gargant kit as extras like with all the newer big models.
It would be odd not to have a special character after all the new multi kits that have one.
They would also need one to centre the fluff around as that’s what they’ve always done.
Saturday is the next teaser and their article states we will know more then.
I’m honestly expecting a triple kit with a character option thrown in.
Only weird thing would be seeing where the bonegrinder fits or if they will just retire the kit.
I can’t see the new ones being between that and a gargant for size in all honesty.
Seeing FW retires more and more AoS kits, I wouldn't be surprised at all if the plastic kit is a Bonegrinder replacement.
Jackal90 wrote: I’d say the new gargant types will be bigger.
From all the little cartoon type sketches they’ve shown, these things are huge.
Currently we have the normal gargant and the bonegrinder, the teaser mentioned 3 other types, so I’d bet we have a triple kit maybe for those.
One was hinted but no more than that.
If there is it’s likely to be thrown in with the new gargant kit as extras like with all the newer big models.
It would be odd not to have a special character after all the new multi kits that have one.
They would also need one to centre the fluff around as that’s what they’ve always done.
Saturday is the next teaser and their article states we will know more then.
I’m honestly expecting a triple kit with a character option thrown in.
Only weird thing would be seeing where the bonegrinder fits or if they will just retire the kit.
I can’t see the new ones being between that and a gargant for size in all honesty.
Seeing FW retires more and more AoS kits, I wouldn't be surprised at all if the plastic kit is a Bonegrinder replacement.
That’s what I’m thinking.
A lot of AoS has been phased out already for no reason.
Wouldn’t surprise me if “bonegrinder” was an option in this kit just so they could also gain sales on armies that can include them currently.
Either way, I’m hoping to grab one once they open again just to air on the side of caution.
Always planned to get one for my gitz but never really pulled the trigger.
That way if I prefer it then I’m fine, if the new kit looks better I can always just sell it.
Well, if that illustration is anything to go by, the Gargant release will consist of 0 miniatures. Instead, GW will provide a costume for yourself to dress up as one. Should be pretty close in scale!
Unless those are Snotling Sigmarines. Now, I don't want to get my hopes up, but I for one would love Snotling Sigmarines.
Think most people were referring to the other picture which was posted. The one in the teaser from a few weeks back where the giant was holding a little boat with people in.
Maybe this is the start of AOS/ Warmaster, those little sigmarines are in scale. =D
Hopefully on Saturday there'll be pictures of models in stead of sketches. I can only live in hope I guess.
I’d be really happy if they made a plastic kit the size of the old ForgeWorld giant. Always liked that model, just not willing to pay that ForgeWorld premium tax.
I just hope they don’t make them all cartoony like they did with the trolls. The look of the current gargant kits is great, just upscale it.
Coenus Scaldingus wrote: Well, if that illustration is anything to go by, the Gargant release will consist of 0 miniatures. Instead, GW will provide a costume for yourself to dress up as one. Should be pretty close in scale!
Unless those are Snotling Sigmarines. Now, I don't want to get my hopes up, but I for one would love Snotling Sigmarines.
Nah they will just make the legs and feet - probably all you need
This is a Scinari Cathallar,* and she plays a vital role in Lumineth society. All Lumineth use aetherquartz, the realmstone of Hysh, which gives them enlightenment of mind, body and spirit. But this has a price, and the Aelves pay by siphoning their turbulent emotions into the aetherquartz. In battle, Scinari Cathallars weaponise this emotion, drawing it from their allies and turning it against their enemies. Foes are rendered helpless by the overwhelming rush of despair and darkness.
I think we can finally put to rest that those 3 images are not Endless spells now. x)
They kinda do.
The human is the guy from the current giant kit. Johann?
And I want to see the stormcast were meant to represent one of the snapfit sets. I forget which one, but I think they were shown off that way.
This is a Scinari Cathallar,* and she plays a vital role in Lumineth society. All Lumineth use aetherquartz, the realmstone of Hysh, which gives them enlightenment of mind, body and spirit. But this has a price, and the Aelves pay by siphoning their turbulent emotions into the aetherquartz. In battle, Scinari Cathallars weaponise this emotion, drawing it from their allies and turning it against their enemies. Foes are rendered helpless by the overwhelming rush of despair and darkness.
I think we can finally put to rest that those 3 images are not Endless spells now. x)
That reveal held a special sort of vindication in my heart - people were getting way too lost in hyper-analyzing every word rather than just understanding it's a turn of phrase. Same with all the people who were "sure" that the giant release was Hysh related because they said something like "we have more big news and armies to bring to light" at the bottom of a community article.
Everything looks pretty great though - I'm happier with the mega-gargants than I thought I would be!
The last gargant’s face is a little cartoony, but it’s not tooooo bad... now the real question are whether they’ll give us loads of extra bits so not everyone has the same three Gargants running around.
The models look great, but I'm not too thrilled about them being available to any faction. I suppose in on respect it was inevitable due since they'll be taking the role of AoS' Knights (big expensive kit anyone can grab) but it definitely robs Destruction of some well-needed character.
Arbitrator wrote: The models look great, but I'm not too thrilled about them being available to any faction. I suppose in on respect it was inevitable due since they'll be taking the role of AoS' Knights (big expensive kit anyone can grab) but it definitely robs Destruction of some well-needed character.
This way people will actually use them. And ogres should be able to ally to order armies as mercenaries too. Restricting how people build their armies is just dumb.
I like the idea of them being able to ally onto other factions, for the converters out there its absolute dream material, bone gargants, chaotic versions, hideous sea beasts, armour clad defenders of the Free Cities, its going to lead to some impressive counts as.
Just a note don't forget these Giants are likely 400+ points EACH to take (at a pure guess). So chances are if you take one its your entire alliance point allocation for a 2K army. They might even have a special rule like Gotrek has if they go over the 400 point value - ergo allowing them to be taken in a 2K army even though they cost way more than normal for the allowance of allies at that point level.
It also makes sense from a business and practicalities side. By having them as mercenaries/allies in general it encourages more people to buy one for their army; then perhaps another for another army - now you're half way to a Giants army so getting the Giants Battletome and a few more isn't a huge outlay.
Meanwhile if you could only use them on their own then you've likely got to spend more than a getting started sets worth of money to get one model that is jsut the start of your giants army. So whilst its small footprint in models its still a big cost its just in fewer models so it feels more expensive to get started.
warl0rdb0b wrote: I like the idea of them being able to ally onto other factions, for the converters out there its absolute dream material, bone gargants, chaotic versions, hideous sea beasts, armour clad defenders of the Free Cities, its going to lead to some impressive counts as.
Yep. I'm already thinking conversion bits. I wonder if Dracoth chest armour would make a good shoulder plate?
Biggest suprise to me is that all three Gargants stem from the same kit... I was honestly expecting three kits. Even during the reveal I didn't realize the similarities they shared (most noticable the stance).
Arbitrator wrote: The models look great, but I'm not too thrilled about them being available to any faction. I suppose in on respect it was inevitable due since they'll be taking the role of AoS' Knights (big expensive kit anyone can grab) but it definitely robs Destruction of some well-needed character.
This way people will actually use them. And ogres should be able to ally to order armies as mercenaries too. Restricting how people build their armies is just dumb.
And fyreslayers.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
SKR.HH wrote: Biggest suprise to me is that all three Gargants stem from the same kit... I was honestly expecting three kits. Even during the reveal I didn't realize the similarities they shared (most noticable the stance).
Those are great!
Yeah, I was hoping they would look more different from one another. That said, they all look great and I am certainly not complaining. Plus it means more extra bits and conversion opportunity.
I honestly don’t get the issue with other armies being able to use them.
Giants have pretty much always been that way.
Even the bonegrinder can go to multiple factions.
Yea, it will boost sales, but for once I don’t think that was actually the reasoning for it.
Just feels to me that they’ve kept them to how giants are.
The only downside for me (more of a nitpick) is that the cannons aren’t useable.
We know the sky titans used huge cannons so I was half expecting to see a ranged giant.
If you look at the 3 versions, other than the thighs, it appears there are 2 or 3 feet, arms, chest, head. I wonder if it would be possible to make 2 giants or close to, with a bit of sculpting, from one box.
Unless all the ropes and decorations on the arms etc are attachments and not presculpted into the body parts.
It is sort of interesting that the Giants all appear to still be chasing around and gobbling up citizens of the Empire from classic WHFB.
I'm surprised they didn't tie them more closely to AOS. Are those guys they are holding/eating the very first regular old humans we've seen in an AOS kit?
It seems like it would have been more appropriate to have them snacking on stormcast or fyreslayers or khinerai, etc. Even all the shields sculpted on them etc. all look like regular old renaissance human stuff. Shouldn't they be wearing busted sky dwarf metal balloons or flying turtle shells or whatever?
Huh? Just the first guy has shields from two different warcry bands, a chunk of leviadon shell, a stormcast shield, and we have not even seen the full 360 yet
NinthMusketeer wrote: Huh? Just the first guy has shields from two different warcry bands, a chunk of leviadon shell, a stormcast shield, and we have not even seen the full 360 yet
Could you point out where the Stormcast shield is? The two on his loincloth are an old chaos warrior design and the old woodelf eternal guard.
Good point on Leviadon shell, I thought it was dragon skin, but I'm unfamiliar with the kit.
Is the shield with the sun (?) on his belly from warcry? I originally thought it was the old 6th Ed state trooper lion shield but I think I was wrong.
Is the shield on his arm with the Celtic knot thing from Warcry? I'm not familiar with all the kits, but I'm pretty positive it isn't the Iron Golem shield.
Do you know if these are the first regular humans we've seen?
NinthMusketeer wrote: Huh? Just the first guy has shields from two different warcry bands, a chunk of leviadon shell, a stormcast shield, and we have not even seen the full 360 yet
Could you point out where the Stormcast shield is? The two on his loincloth are an old chaos warrior design and the old woodelf eternal guard.
Good point on Leviadon shell, I thought it was dragon skin, but I'm unfamiliar with the kit.
Is the shield with the sun (?) on his belly from warcry? I originally thought it was the old 6th Ed state trooper lion shield but I think I was wrong.
Is the shield on his arm with the Celtic knot thing from Warcry? I'm not familiar with all the kits, but I'm pretty positive it isn't the Iron Golem shield.
Do you know if these are the first regular humans we've seen?
Not the first normal humans, as the lion's share of the warcry bands are just regular humans. Chaos worshippers, but generally just the elite ones have mutations or the like.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Huh? Just the first guy has shields from two different warcry bands, a chunk of leviadon shell, a stormcast shield, and we have not even seen the full 360 yet
Could you point out where the Stormcast shield is? The two on his loincloth are an old chaos warrior design and the old woodelf eternal guard.
Good point on Leviadon shell, I thought it was dragon skin, but I'm unfamiliar with the kit.
Is the shield with the sun (?) on his belly from warcry? I originally thought it was the old 6th Ed state trooper lion shield but I think I was wrong.
Is the shield on his arm with the Celtic knot thing from Warcry? I'm not familiar with all the kits, but I'm pretty positive it isn't the Iron Golem shield.
Do you know if these are the first regular humans we've seen?
Not the first normal humans, as the lion's share of the warcry bands are just regular humans. Chaos worshippers, but generally just the elite ones have mutations or the like.
We'll have to agree to disagree that is a Stormcast shield as I'm definitely not seeing the similarities, but good spot on the splintered fang iconography and fair point about how most of the Warcry guys are normal humans.
I still find it interesting that all the people they are grabbing etc. look like WHFB empire citizens. They are just surprisingly solidly aesthetically placed in the "world that was". I mean, there just isn't anything that is aesthetically instantly recognizable as being from AOS.
We'll have to agree to disagree that is a Stormcast shield as I'm definitely not seeing the similarities, but good spot on the splintered fang iconography and fair point about how most of the Warcry guys are normal humans.
I still find it interesting that all the people they are grabbing etc. look like WHFB empire citizens. They are just surprisingly solidly aesthetically placed in the "world that was". I mean, there just isn't anything that is aesthetically instantly recognizable as being from AOS.
It's from the discontinued Knights Excelsior upgrade kit.
We'll have to agree to disagree that is a Stormcast shield as I'm definitely not seeing the similarities, but good spot on the splintered fang iconography and fair point about how most of the Warcry guys are normal humans.
I still find it interesting that all the people they are grabbing etc. look like WHFB empire citizens. They are just surprisingly solidly aesthetically placed in the "world that was". I mean, there just isn't anything that is aesthetically instantly recognizable as being from AOS.
It's from the discontinued Knights Excelsior upgrade kit.
Dang, I salute your knowledge of Stormcast shields. That is definitely a Stormcast shield!
Maybe that shield is more iconic than I give it credit for? Do people see it and instantly go "Stormcast!!"? I was definitely looking for their big normal shields but I'm not really into AOS, so maybe it helps those better versed in the lore the place the Giants in the AOS setting?
StarFyre wrote: If you look at the 3 versions, other than the thighs, it appears there are 2 or 3 feet, arms, chest, head. I wonder if it would be possible to make 2 giants or close to, with a bit of sculpting, from one box.
That would be like stealing food from the mouths of Games Workshop's children? Would you steal bread from the mouths of children?
StarFyre wrote: Unless all the ropes and decorations on the arms etc are attachments and not presculpted into the body parts.
Sanjay
While my man-boob identifying skills are not as polished as my uh... other boob identifying skills my feeling is they all share one body and legs and the bits and bobs are glued on. The legs seem to have the same wrapping and the bodies the same um, flabby bits.
That being said, there should be enough arms and heads to convert a properly sized action figure or Ken Doll.
Yeah, the torso and legs are shared across all three and it looks like there’s only actually two variants of each arm. All the differences are in the heads, hands, feet, and random kibble.
Oh, and making sure to never photograph them from the same angle, of course.
Will be interesting to see if there will be even more Gargants next week or if we just get a look at the book.
Loving these new guys, and have always loved the current aleguzzlers, it was among the first things I got when AoS first hit and listbuilding was really easy.
I feel the new guys lack the realism of the aleguzzlers with their belly and tall lanky legs, looking like their size really didnt fit in society so they always go hungry and never get to grow their full potential.
First thing I notice with these new guys is their massive legs. I guess in the age of sigmar they just go out and grab a kraken or a manticore for dinner and grow big and strong.
Appreciate the generic fantasy feel obout these guys.
We'll have to agree to disagree that is a Stormcast shield as I'm definitely not seeing the similarities, but good spot on the splintered fang iconography and fair point about how most of the Warcry guys are normal humans.
I still find it interesting that all the people they are grabbing etc. look like WHFB empire citizens. They are just surprisingly solidly aesthetically placed in the "world that was". I mean, there just isn't anything that is aesthetically instantly recognizable as being from AOS.
It's from the discontinued Knights Excelsior upgrade kit.
Dang, I salute your knowledge of Stormcast shields. That is definitely a Stormcast shield!
Maybe that shield is more iconic than I give it credit for? Do people see it and instantly go "Stormcast!!"? I was definitely looking for their big normal shields but I'm not really into AOS, so maybe it helps those better versed in the lore the place the Giants in the AOS setting?
I literally posted a link to an almost identical upgrade kit in my post and you said you disagreed...
All I know is it's ridiculous that there's a Wild Rider shield on the Gargant, yet still they haven't bothered to write rules that aren't crap for those shields!
Kanluwen wrote: All I know is it's ridiculous that there's a Wild Rider shield on the Gargant, yet still they haven't bothered to write rules that aren't crap for those shields!
That's why there's some many just lying around for giants to pick up.
Those giants are really very nice. The detailing is great and the non-human proportions look good - obviously exaggerated without being too cartoony. Also creates a bit of forced perspective, maybe?
Say, d'you think the designers were watching old Roald Dahl films?
Spoiler:
I'm also looking at my old plastic giant and feeling a bit of... size envy. Maybe I'll sculpt a pair of huge ears on him.
Arbitrator wrote:The models look great, but I'm not too thrilled about them being available to any faction.
Jackal90 wrote:I honestly don’t get the issue with other armies being able to use them.
Giants have pretty much always been that way.
Yeah, that. I seem to recall the first plastic guy had ally or mercenary rules when he turned up. And wasn't there a Dogs of War unit that was two Albion giants and their druid handler?
lare2 wrote: These giants are immense. How can GW be so on point with these but then produce an army like those elves which are... well...
It’s crazy isn’t it. Almost like people have different tastes, different models will appeal to different people and nothing is going to appeal to everybody, but that can’t be it...
lare2 wrote: These giants are immense. How can GW be so on point with these but then produce an army like those elves which are... well...
It’s crazy isn’t it. Almost like people have different tastes, different models will appeal to different people and nothing is going to appeal to everybody, but that can’t be it...
Whose tastes do those cow helmets appeal to?
Tell me so that I can put them down on 'the list'.
lare2 wrote: These giants are immense. How can GW be so on point with these but then produce an army like those elves which are... well...
It’s crazy isn’t it. Almost like people have different tastes, different models will appeal to different people and nothing is going to appeal to everybody, but that can’t be it...
Whose tastes do those cow helmets appeal to?
Tell me so that I can put them down on 'the list'.
As a concept they aren’t entirely bad.
Just poor execution I think.
I’ll be shortening the horns and using them as masks instead for a smaller profile.
lare2 wrote: These giants are immense. How can GW be so on point with these but then produce an army like those elves which are... well...
It’s crazy isn’t it. Almost like people have different tastes, different models will appeal to different people and nothing is going to appeal to everybody, but that can’t be it...
Whose tastes do those cow helmets appeal to?
Tell me so that I can put them down on 'the list'.
I would say me, but I don't want to be on any, 'the lists'. That seems far to menacing.
On a more serious note, I like what is going on with Lumineth in that I am so exhausted of Tolkien/Gygax (otherwise known as generic fantasy) after some 3 decades of the largely the same old, same old. Fantasy feels like it has been in a rut for even longer than that. Long gone is the wonder and majesty of the genre replaced with comfortable cliches that make each iteration of every fantasy world run together like every small town on an overly long road trip. I actually kinda loath that generic fantasy has become a thing. Fantasy shouldn't ever be generic by definition.Age of Sigmar, honestly, still isn't that far from generic fantasy, but I appreciate the small steps GW has done to at least move away from literally (not literally) every 90's D&D 'unique world' campaign pitch I have ever heard which amounted to regular D&D but ________ is kinda different.
I also kinda it entertaining that many detractors are saying the same basic things I have heard countless times when I was playing D&D way too much. Back in the 90's, I vividly remember the players who started playing D&D in the 70s griping over the same overly fantastical elements like outlandish weapons and armor. Mind you this outlandishness is not anymore than what you would see on basically any WHFB miniatures such as horns on helmets or warhammers the size of sledgehammers.
While I get there is a scale of ridiculousness to how far one is willing to suspend their disbelieve, I do find it odd elves with hammers and tall ornate helms such as the Lumineth are that line that many are very vocal about it given some of the crazy that don't seem any more or less ridiculous from WHFB. I mean ratmen with Gatling guns? Just the same, I did see a player pack up their things and storm out of their first game of 3rd edition when they discovered clerics could use greatswords.
I like units with hammer weapons. I generally like Earth the most of the four classic elements. I have no issue with elves (or aelves) trying to be more than a Flanderised, cliche. I honestly don't really see the bull helmets being any more insane than many of the Warcry cultists or many other elements of AoS or even WHFB. I actually want to start an army of them after seeing the latest reveals as my initial impression of the Lumineth rather luke-warm basically cover the standard infantry, cavalry and archer stuff not too far from any other fantasy world. Really the only thing holding me back is the lack of interest of painting yet another army as I so far behind on what I have plus an increasing stream of commissions. So I don't really know if I will or not. I suspect it will come down to the price of the boxed set. I figure if it is well over $200 U.S. I will probably give it a pass as I really only want the models and battletome. And I really only need a regular battletome and not anything fancy.
Fayric wrote: Will be interesting to see if there will be even more Gargants next week or if we just get a look at the book.
Loving these new guys, and have always loved the current aleguzzlers, it was among the first things I got when AoS first hit and listbuilding was really easy.
I feel the new guys lack the realism of the aleguzzlers with their belly and tall lanky legs, looking like their size really didnt fit in society so they always go hungry and never get to grow their full potential.
First thing I notice with these new guys is their massive legs. I guess in the age of sigmar they just go out and grab a kraken or a manticore for dinner and grow big and strong.
Appreciate the generic fantasy feel obout these guys.
I never liked the lanky look of the current giant, logically a giant would need thicker legs to hold itself up. I think the Reaper Bones giants have better proportions to convey their weight and power.
It's all magic and fantasy of course, but I think these guys still look a bit too much like basketball players rather than giants.
lare2 wrote: These giants are immense. How can GW be so on point with these but then produce an army like those elves which are... well...
It’s crazy isn’t it. Almost like people have different tastes, different models will appeal to different people and nothing is going to appeal to everybody, but that can’t be it...
Whose tastes do those cow helmets appeal to?
Tell me so that I can put them down on 'the list'.
People who like the idea of totemic warriors that draw upon elements?
Frankly, you lot and your constant whining about the "cow helmet" nonsense are far more obnoxious than anyone who happens to enjoy something that you don't.
lare2 wrote: These giants are immense. How can GW be so on point with these but then produce an army like those elves which are... well...
It’s crazy isn’t it. Almost like people have different tastes, different models will appeal to different people and nothing is going to appeal to everybody, but that can’t be it...
Whose tastes do those cow helmets appeal to?
Tell me so that I can put them down on 'the list'.
I would say me, but I don't want to be on any, 'the lists'. That seems far to menacing.
On a more serious note, I like what is going on with Lumineth in that I am so exhausted of Tolkien/Gygax (otherwise known as generic fantasy) after some 3 decades of the largely the same old, same old. Fantasy feels like it has been in a rut for even longer than that. Long gone is the wonder and majesty of the genre replaced with comfortable cliches that make each iteration of every fantasy world run together like every small town on an overly long road trip. I actually kinda loath that generic fantasy has become a thing. Fantasy shouldn't ever be generic by definition.Age of Sigmar, honestly, still isn't that far from generic fantasy, but I appreciate the small steps GW has done to at least move away from literally (not literally) every 90's D&D 'unique world' campaign pitch I have ever heard which amounted to regular D&D but ________ is kinda different.
I'd honestly be more sympathetic to this position if I could find _anything_ that fits what you call 'generic fantasy' anywhere any more. Or at any point in the last several decades.
Its always weird hybrid stuff with scifi tropes, guns and/or anime-style gimmicks. A lot of it comes from authors being unable to discard their modern sensibilities and assumptions and actually do a fantasy world, but I have a hard time with the premise that 'generic fantasy' has become a thing. I'd argue more than that the blended warcraft/warhammer assumptions have become the generic thing that masquerades as fantasy these days.
Actually very fond of the cow helmets from a sort of warrior-shaman angle. Far as I can tell, you wouldn't bother running that unit without bringing some Battle Cattle along for the buffs/synergy, so it's a pretty neat bit of visual connection.
The Acme Mallets are still somewhat egregious, but the alternative weapon with the crystal spike on the back looks better anyway (and also follows the same cues as my thoughts on the helmets)
It's a fantasy game, so I'm willing suspend disbelief. To a point. I don't blink at overgrown rats with gatling guns because, hey, whatever. Elves with hammers don't bother in the least.
But I can't forgive those helmets. I cannot possibly believe that an elven neck is strong enough to not just support that monstrosity, but allow the head to turn with any kind of speed or grace that would be necessary to see anything not directly to the front. There comes a point where hand-waving it away and saying, "it's magic," just doesn't work on me. It may seem to some a weird hill to die on, but so be it.
Kanluwen wrote: Again: we had elf helmets that size before. Why wasn't this a big deal with Eltharion the Grim, Tyrion, Teclis, etc?
Old models get a pass, I think. Since everything had to be wonky and disproportional due to sculpting limitations at the time. The new Eltharion model, for example, has a much more reasonable sized helmet. It's pretty big but nowhere near as unreasonable as old Eltharion. The new helms just seem very top heavy. Like the bull head just seems massive compared to helmet additions in the past. At the very least, the horns don't seem like they'd inhibit hammer swings. A model that's helmet doesn't make sense is the great sword Untamed Beast guy. His helmet's horns are literally blocking the sword he's about to swing.
I'm not quite sure what sculpting limitations required 28-35mm models to have huge oversized crests on the helms. Sure if we go down to 15mm of 6mm then things get oversized to the extreme in comparison; but at 28mm no you don't need huge wings as a sculpting limit.
It's a design and aesthetic choice just like most of the pauldrons on Warmachine infantry are insanely big (heck Marines have ones so huge that even in cosplay they can't move their arms right)
Kanluwen wrote: Again: we had elf helmets that size before. Why wasn't this a big deal with Eltharion the Grim, Tyrion, Teclis, etc?
Old models get a pass, I think. Since everything had to be wonky and disproportional due to sculpting limitations at the time. The new Eltharion model, for example, has a much more reasonable sized helmet. It's pretty big but nowhere near as unreasonable as old Eltharion. The new helms just seem very top heavy. Like the bull head just seems massive compared to helmet additions in the past. At the very least, the horns don't seem like they'd inhibit hammer swings. A model that's helmet doesn't make sense is the great sword Untamed Beast guy. His helmet's horns are literally blocking the sword he's about to swing.
Minor point, but you never swing a 2 handed sword directly downwards.
Doing so leaves you open to a counter attack and it’s easily avoided or deflected.
He has his weapon readied, yes.
Not about to swing though.
Generally it’s sideways arcs with 2 handed swords as it’s hard to block due to the impact it causes and it’s hard to avoid as it’s such a wide sweeping arc.
I'd also say that the photos make the helmets look bigger too. I think once people see the models in their hand they might be more accepting of them as they are. Sadly with the lockdown its going to be months before we get our hands on them.
That. With the old helmets, all the added wings and crests and things seemed to be centred around and carried by the head, even if they were hugely oversized. The cow horns are carried at the top of that very tall hat. It looks as if, on top of having to carry a big weight on your head, you also have to avoid tipping your head a degree to either side, or the whole lot will send you stumbling. Or at least, even more so.
Which would not look very dignified for a haughty elf, at all, at all.
The funniest part is that you chose an example(Japanese helmets) that arguably prove that it's entirely possible.
How?
Spoiler:
During the Momoyama period of intense civil warfare, kabuto were made to a simpler design of three or four plates, lacking many of the ornamental features of earlier helmets. To offset the plain, utilitarian form of the new helmet, and to provide visibility and presence on the battlefield, armorers began to build fantastic shapes on top of the simple helmets in harikake (papier-mâché mixed with lacquer over a wooden armature), though some were constructed entirely of iron. These shapes mimicked forms from Japanese culture and mythology, including fish, cow horns, the head of the god of longevity, bolts of silk, head scarves, Ichi-no-Tani canyon, and axe heads, among many others. Some forms were realistically rendered, while others took on a very futuristic, modernist feel.
I won't pretend to be an expert on Lumineth Realmlord helmets, but if your own example is papier-mâché over a wooden armature, is it really that hard to believe that there is some kind of fancy Elf magic that makes the helmets lighter than iron or whatever?
You could turn that to say that the japanese had better sense than to expend energy to pile heavy materials high on their helmets. Do the lumineth elves have better sense than to expend magical energy to make their head decorations weigh less?
"Great mage! The forces of Nurgle are breaking through! We need your aid now or all is lost!"
"Hang on a bit, mate. Those guyses hats are slipping down. Bit to the left, bit to the left, whoops, too much left."
A little note in a battletome could make a lot of difference. "Lo, the stonebreakers [or what-have-you] cunningly wrought shapes of mighty kine from hysh-papyrus and powder ground from the mystical substance p'lastr ohf'par'ess to place on their tall, shining helms, to signify their devotion to the great goddess K'larab'elle and strike mortal dread in the hearts of their craven foe."
That could ease the dissatisfaction, just a bit. Will we get anything like that? Unlikely. And in any case we're still left with the look of the things.
Which is dopey.
They're made now. What's done is done. The bits can probably be removed, that's fine. People can like it, despite any jokers talking about 'the list'. That's fine too.* Nobody's gonna tell you what not to buy. But we're still left with the first impression that these dopey-lookin' things went through several steps of design, approval, sculpting, mould-cutting etc. all the way to being shown to the prospective customer. And a lot of prospective customers here think they're dopey-lookin'.
Can the customer, expected to drop at least £30 on these, be allowed to say something about the design that devalues them, in their eyes...?
Vermis wrote: Are you equating papier mache with magic?
Maybe you'd be happier if they were made of straw, since you seem to enjoy making arguments out of them. Seriously dude, people are saying they understand how it is possible to like/dislike them in valid ways and you are just attacking people.
7 Aleguzzlers is 1120 points unless they get any changes within the Battletome.
If we assume the standard 2K army list then that would clock the Gargants in between 400 and 440 points each. I'd not expect them to go any lower than around 400 and up to 500 would be fair I'd wager based on their size. If they are 400 then they easily fit current allies rules too, though with Gotrek already breaking that, anything up to 500 seems fair provided it comes with the restrictions.
So sounds like he's going for 2 Gargants and 7 Aleguzzlers.
I wasn't expecting to need that many maybe he is going for less Mega Gargants.
I’d say he’s likely on running 2 mega gargants in a 2k
Unless they dramatically change the cost of an aleguzzler he’s around 1.2k with those 7.
Big guys likely to be around 400 each in that case.
However, I’d think it more likely to be a 2.5k, so they are around 650 ish each which seems right.
Given the popularity of the knight kit (and the seeming gargant craze going on on twitter), I wonder how fast we'll see new variants if the mega gargants sell well. At the very least, it would be cool to get an upgrade sprue for the current giant kit, given that they only have three "normal" heads.
I'm sort of hoping the mega gargants get some more head options as well (the teaser trailer heads (and weapons for the most part) don't seem to match the heads we've seen, so a few more options seem likely
I wasn't expecting to need that many maybe he is going for less Mega Gargants.
The last time he was excited about an army like this... he showed his triple keeper on twitter before the battletome was released... lets hope this is not the case.
True, but aleguzzlers exist in another army and the whole faction is being expressed as allies, so I expect that particular method of balancing will be less at play. I would expect allegiance to have more to do with objective control and anti-horde. Probably with some mostly-useless bravery/battleshock debuff thrown in.
Given that the Aleguzzler is probably going to get a rules update, as well as changes to how the weapon options work it seems like jumping the gun to start getting it all together like that.
It's also really crazy how, when that model came out, I hated the droopy drawers look. Now? Bah! It's grown on me.
Commodus Leitdorf wrote: Given that the Aleguzzler is probably going to get a rules update, as well as changes to how the weapon options work it seems like jumping the gun to start getting it all together like that.
It's also really crazy how, when that model came out, I hated the droopy drawers look. Now? Bah! It's grown on me.
Ben seems privvy to quite a bit of info.
He previously had a triple keeper list and a full steam tank list, both just before the books dropped.
Ben seems privvy to quite a bit of info.
He previously had a triple keeper list and a full steam tank list, both just before the books dropped.
His title is "Product Developer for Age of Sigmar", so...yeah he's "privy to quite a bit of info"?
Also, it's not like it has been hard to predict that people who enjoy certain things will go certain routes. Even before Hedonites and Cities, he was showing off monsters and the like that he's worked on. His Twitter feed of late was full of Mournfangs and Stonehorns.
GaroRobe wrote: Given the popularity of the knight kit (and the seeming gargant craze going on on twitter), I wonder how fast we'll see new variants if the mega gargants sell well. At the very least, it would be cool to get an upgrade sprue for the current giant kit, given that they only have three "normal" heads.
I'm sort of hoping the mega gargants get some more head options as well (the teaser trailer heads (and weapons for the most part) don't seem to match the heads we've seen, so a few more options seem likely
The trailer and the photo heads looked the same to me, as with the weapons.
GaroRobe wrote: Given the popularity of the knight kit (and the seeming gargant craze going on on twitter), I wonder how fast we'll see new variants if the mega gargants sell well. At the very least, it would be cool to get an upgrade sprue for the current giant kit, given that they only have three "normal" heads.
I'm sort of hoping the mega gargants get some more head options as well (the teaser trailer heads (and weapons for the most part) don't seem to match the heads we've seen, so a few more options seem likely
The trailer and the photo heads looked the same to me, as with the weapons.
What are you seeing that’s different?
I mean the animated trailer. Because you could say that it shows off the bearded head, but the krakeneater's head doesn't look the same. And we don't have a giant wearing a metal hat of some sorts. Plus, the weapons are different.
It’s not easy to harm a warrior with no body, and this is represented in games by the Light of Eltharion’s 7 Wounds, 3+ Save profile, and a special rule that makes him pretty tough to take out. This means you can and should confidently send him into combat right away, where he can put his deadly Fangsword and Celennari blade to good use.
Not only is he a skilled duellist, increasing his damage when he fights enemy Heroes, but his Fangsword makes him even more deadly when he charges into battle!
There are other advantages of Eltharion’s rather unusual form – he can fling searing darts of light from his gauntlets in the shooting phase, and his empty armour allows him to shrug off blows that would slay a mortal warrior outright.
Let’s take a moment to recap – he’s a legendary swordsman, and you’ll want to get the Light of Eltharion into combat as quickly as you can.
Moving from where I incorrectly placed it in the Warcry thread...
No wolves on Fenris wrote: Has anyone else read Light of Eltharion rules off the community site? He is something to be seen. 7 wounds three up save with no modifiers 4 attacks at 2+ 3+ -2 (I think) and damage D3. Ops -3 rend my mistake
My concern is he was not previewed with any MW protection. Being a super badass that melts to MW creates an unbalance-able situation; against armies with high MW output he is worth little, against armies with low MW output he is worth a ton. He is an awesome model with appropriately awesome rules, I would hate to see an issue like that render him unfun.
I was just as interested by the bottom of the article:
“You’ll need to get your hands on Battletome: Lumineth Realm-lords to learn more about him. Stay tuned for more information on the book and model very soon”
Does this mean the book might be out on pre order soon
Automatically Appended Next Post:
NinthMusketeer wrote: Moving from where I incorrectly placed it in the Warcry thread...
No wolves on Fenris wrote: Has anyone else read Light of Eltharion rules off the community site? He is something to be seen. 7 wounds three up save with no modifiers 4 attacks at 2+ 3+ -2 (I think) and damage D3. Ops -3 rend my mistake
My concern is he was not previewed with any MW protection. Being a super badass that melts to MW creates an unbalance-able situation; against armies with high MW output he is worth little, against armies with low MW output he is worth a ton. He is an awesome model with appropriately awesome rules, I would hate to see an issue like that render him unfun.
To be fair this would start moving him into near Gotrek level. 3+ unmodifiable save and mortal wound protection with 4 attacks that (on the charge) hit and wound on a 2+ with -3 rend and extra hits on a 6+! As well as another 2 attacks from the dagger and apparently some ranged attack as well!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Another thing, I’m now 1) really intrigued about Teclis and to see how powerful he is as a magic user as lore from the world that was stated he was on par with Nagash so wonder if that translates to the game. 2) if this is how good Eltharion is in melee I wonder what Tyrion would be like if they ever made him?
Light of Eltharion is really cool, but the guy need a griffon. They already tried to put him on foot for an edition and had to retcon that model to get it right.
That said, I think these lumineth will be my biggest and most unfinished AoS army. I want all of the stuff I see, and it makes me want to dig up the loads of unfinished High Elves I still have in the closet
Another thing, I’m now 1) really intrigued about Teclis and to see how powerful he is as a magic user as lore from the world that was stated he was on par with Nagash so wonder if that translates to the game. 2) if this is how good Eltharion is in melee I wonder what Tyrion would be like if they ever made him?
To be fair, Teclis (and the old high magic) has always been absurdly hyped in the fluff and then really lame in game play, mostly because he play defence and boring things like blocking enemy magic rather than devastating attack spells. Will be nice to see if the current setting change that.
What I notice in that shot is when you move back from a close up product photo and view the model as you might at a game table - the horns reduce in apparent size. I think this is one thing people have overlooked - in the product photos you're looking AT the model directly and the shot is fairly close. So the horns appear far more dominating.
When you're 1 ft away on a gaming table and looking down at an angle to the model the horns shrink in comparison to the rest of the model in apparent size. They dominate the visual area less.
I'd also say that the horns were a very "new" thing and that can throw some people. More familiarity and exposure can reduce this "Oh its new" impact.
I think that the next level is seeing models in the real world. Again I've had models that I didn't really like the look of at first, but really loved them once I've held them (the opposite can also happen - though I find for me that's more when the actual model ends up being a nightmare to assemble )
Fayric wrote: Light of Eltharion is really cool, but the guy need a griffon. They already tried to put him on foot for an edition and had to retcon that model to get it right.
That said, I think these lumineth will be my biggest and most unfinished AoS army. I want all of the stuff I see, and it makes me want to dig up the loads of unfinished High Elves I still have in the closet
Another thing, I’m now 1) really intrigued about Teclis and to see how powerful he is as a magic user as lore from the world that was stated he was on par with Nagash so wonder if that translates to the game. 2) if this is how good Eltharion is in melee I wonder what Tyrion would be like if they ever made him?
To be fair, Teclis (and the old high magic) has always been absurdly hyped in the fluff and then really lame in game play, mostly because he play defence and boring things like blocking enemy magic rather than devastating attack spells. Will be nice to see if the current setting change that.
I just loved how he came across in Giantslayer. That was how he should be in fluff and in game!
With sons of behemat, did the aleguzzler get a sizeable price hike (money wise) or is that just me?
I swear they weren’t £40 before.
Pretty sure they were around £30 or so and the double set was £56 before it vanished.
When I bought my giant kit (it’s 17yrs old now!) it was $45. Now it’s $65. $20 increase in 17 years isn’t THAT bad...but it’s still up by a third. Selling mine for just under what I paid for it (already have a buyer).
Jackal90 wrote: With sons of behemat, did the aleguzzler get a sizeable price hike (money wise) or is that just me?
I swear they weren’t £40 before.
Pretty sure they were around £30 or so and the double set was £56 before it vanished.
They've been £40 for a while now.
The Colossal Crushers double set was £45 at one point.
Jackal90 wrote: With sons of behemat, did the aleguzzler get a sizeable price hike (money wise) or is that just me?
I swear they weren’t £40 before.
Pretty sure they were around £30 or so and the double set was £56 before it vanished.
They've been £40 for a while now.
The Colossal Crushers double set was £45 at one point.
Thank you.
Shows the last time I got one too.
I need to dig out and dust off my gargants it seems as I have 6 somewhere.
Got 1 painted with my gloomspite but the other 5 are still sat on sprues until I found a use (found them on sale as a store was closing down)
Fayric wrote: Light of Eltharion is really cool, but the guy need a griffon. They already tried to put him on foot for an edition and had to retcon that model to get it right.
That said, I think these lumineth will be my biggest and most unfinished AoS army. I want all of the stuff I see, and it makes me want to dig up the loads of unfinished High Elves I still have in the closet
Another thing, I’m now 1) really intrigued about Teclis and to see how powerful he is as a magic user as lore from the world that was stated he was on par with Nagash so wonder if that translates to the game. 2) if this is how good Eltharion is in melee I wonder what Tyrion would be like if they ever made him?
To be fair, Teclis (and the old high magic) has always been absurdly hyped in the fluff and then really lame in game play, mostly because he play defence and boring things like blocking enemy magic rather than devastating attack spells. Will be nice to see if the current setting change that.
There's a griffon right next to him, it's just not wearing any armour.
Fayric wrote: Light of Eltharion is really cool, but the guy need a griffon. They already tried to put him on foot for an edition and had to retcon that model to get it right.
That said, I think these lumineth will be my biggest and most unfinished AoS army. I want all of the stuff I see, and it makes me want to dig up the loads of unfinished High Elves I still have in the closet
Another thing, I’m now 1) really intrigued about Teclis and to see how powerful he is as a magic user as lore from the world that was stated he was on par with Nagash so wonder if that translates to the game. 2) if this is how good Eltharion is in melee I wonder what Tyrion would be like if they ever made him?
To be fair, Teclis (and the old high magic) has always been absurdly hyped in the fluff and then really lame in game play, mostly because he play defence and boring things like blocking enemy magic rather than devastating attack spells. Will be nice to see if the current setting change that.
There's a griffon right next to him, it's just not wearing any armour.
good one! Actually started to go back to look at the pictures before i got it.
From the Sunday Preview on Warhammer Community (emphasis added):
As for articles, there are some bangers coming up. Get a good look at the endless spells conjured by the Lumineth Realm-lords, and wrap your head around some of the updated Harlequin rules from White Dwarf 454.
It will be interesting to see what the Lumineth endless spells look like.
Stone Mage
• Spell – Gravitic Redirection – Halves movement of unit
• Spell Lore – Emtomb – Casting and range unknown – appears to allow you to select an enemy MODEL and either slays it on a dice role or MWs
Vanari Auralan Sentinels
• Leader can cast a spell - Spell not stated
• Can spend Atherquartz to improve shooting
Vanari Auralan Wardens
• Warscroll Spell? – Power of Hysh – Enables unit to cause mortal wounds on a 5+. Does not state To Hit or To Wound
Avalenor (AKA Big Cow)
• Ability? - Elder Wisdom – Allows a command ability to be used without spending a command point (unclear if this can only be used on a Stonemage)
• Ability – Dazzling Brilliance – Nearby units -1 to hit. Range unclear.
• Appears to have consistent high damage output! Stat line not shown.
Stoneguard (Hammer Bois)
• Ability – Mountain Stance – If a weapon that has a rend characteristic of -1 hits them the rend is reduced to “-“. Further boosted by the Great Nation of Ymetrica rules (Subfaction rule?) to include Rend -2.
• Atherquartz – Appears to improve save by +1
• Standard save of 4+?
• Ability – Tectonic Force – Pushes a unit back at least 2”. Appears to happen at the end of their combat.
Scinari Cathallar
• Can absorb despair from unit that uses atherquartz and redirect it at an enemy unit. How this works exactly is unclear
Teclis
• Mostly likely 4 Cast/4 dispel however not explicitly stated
• Appears to have the ability to auto cast 4 spells with a value of a casting roll of 10. The autocasts appear that they may the able to be dispelled
• Warscroll Spell? - Protection of Teclis – Lumineth within 18” ignore wounds on a 5+
• Warscroll Spell? - Storm of Searing White Light – MWs on every Chaos unit within 18” (Unclear on how many wounds and if this spell is boosted by being used on CHAOS units like quicksilver swords)
• Warscroll Spell? - Total Eclipse – Enemy must use 2CP per command ability instead of 1CP
• Warscroll Spell? – Assault of Stone – Interaction not stated
• Warscroll Spell? – Living Fissure – Interaction not stated
• Ability – Appears to stop WIZARDS within a certain range from casting. Unclear if this an aura ability or is select a WIZARD within range and stop them.
Those spells are neat and suggest that the mages have some long range spells/boosters on them. Thus making them ideal to cast either of those spells and sit "back" from the action rather than charging forward into the fray.
Interestingly they don't tell us what the twin stones can do in terms of what the generated points do; which suggests they've a few options. Also I appreciate that whoever painted them went for "Dark Crystal" colours!
The Petrification spell sounds nasty to slower tough armies. Dwarves and Ossiarchs will loathe something that hits them with mortal wounds twice in a turn on an opponents turn and potentially still twice in their own turn (if the attacking player places the spell in the right spot). Plus sapping movement from them at the same time.
This is from the WarCry thread, but it gives us some item names:
Aeneades wrote: Wasn’t expecting my white dwarf to arrive until end of June given the Warhammer Community article but it arrived today. 11 options for the warcry warband.
Scinari Cathallar
Alarith Stonemage
Steedmaster
High Sentinel
High Warden
Truestone Seneschal
Vanari Dawnrider
Vanari Auralan Sentinel
Vanari Auralan Warden
Alarith stoneguard with diamondpick hammer
Alarirth Stoneguard with stone mallet
The Stoneguard alternate build is "Diamondpick Hammer". The unit Champion is likely the Truestone Seneschal.
The Scinari Cathaller, remember, is the veiled mage-lady.
I know the sculpt quality on the endless spells is comparable to previous releases, but man do they look embarrassingly low budget compared to the IMHO beautiful (admittedly with some goofiness mixed in) Lumineth sculpts. It’s like having beautifully painted miniatures then playing on a low rent half effort terrained table.
I like 'em. Of course, I'm not looking at it from a AOS perspective. I'm looking at it from a "How can I use these in a 40KRPG?" perspective, and the answer is "Eldar psychic power effects/strange alien artefacts".
I mean those three rune thingies would make a great ritual circle that a Deathwatch Kill-Team has to stop.
I'd much rather they have finished the concept out and made the pieces glue together into a complete circle. It just looks... derpy the way it is. To me, of course.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I'd much rather they have finished the concept out and made the pieces glue together into a complete circle. It just looks... derpy the way it is. To me, of course.
Depending on how it works you probably need to place the three pieces around a unit. Not much room inside that circle if they’re all joined up.
Having them like that makes for a benefit of several aspects
1) as noted you can spread them out around a bigger unit
2) It's perhaps more practical on a real table where you might actually have only room to place one or two if you're near some terrain features
3) Transporting - its FAR more practical than having a big fixed ring of hollow plastic to cart around. Much like how the new Wild Woods are instead 3 big trees with the same tri-corner design instead of the old big flat pad with trees stuck on it.
I wonder how many of these are legit teasers and how many are just for fun?
*Josef Bugman exists in the Mortal Realms (Could be cool for a Warcry team of duardin rangers, although no warbands have had actual named heroes leading them)
*Fyreslayers
*Seraphon vs Gloomspite (box set maybe, even though the latter had a box set already)
Most are likely just for fun. Same as how the Regimental Standard is jsut for fun - don't forget a few months back they previewed in that dog units for the Imperial Guard. etc....
Sure some might end up becoming bits of lore and some might be referring to little tidbits of lore hidden here and there; but these things should never be taken as rumours or hints.
I don't think it will be that. But we know that Malerion as an entity ostensibly does exist; it would take significant ret-cons to change that. So how does that mix with 'there might not even be a Malerion'? Could it be that Malerion is just an assumed identity, potentially having multiple individuals play the part over time? Could it be the inverse where Malerion takes over other bodies? Could 'Malerion' be multiple aspects that do not truly exist as a single whole?
It puts the fluff between 'Malerion is fake' and 'Malerion is a 'normal' god' which makes things interesting to speculate about.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I don't think it will be that. But we know that Malerion as an entity ostensibly does exist; it would take significant ret-cons to change that. So how does that mix with 'there might not even be a Malerion'? Could it be that Malerion is just an assumed identity, potentially having multiple individuals play the part over time? Could it be the inverse where Malerion takes over other bodies? Could 'Malerion' be multiple aspects that do not truly exist as a single whole?
It puts the fluff between 'Malerion is fake' and 'Malerion is a 'normal' god' which makes things interesting to speculate about.
Well I think it has something to do "what" Malerion is, as unlike other gods (or demigods) Malerion doesn't have an physical body in a normal sense.
Also, it would make scary amount of sense that some vampires would ally with Malerion (or shadow demons also like sucking blood).
Overread wrote: Or its just a "Daily Mail/Sun" style bit of reporting from the Mortal Realms - ergo sensationalist and not accurate and just a bit of fun.
Ah crap thats bad news - there was some nice bits in AOS Soulbound as well which seemed his - big loss to BL :(
re the "news" articles - yeah its tabloids reporting at its worst - unless you subscribe to the Men in Black view that these are True stories
Well I think it has something to do "what" Malerion is, as unlike other gods (or demigods) Malerion doesn't have an physical body in a normal sense. Also, it would make scary amount of sense that some vampires would ally with Malerion (or shadow demons also like sucking blood).
Nagash is very unahppy with the Aelf gods - but he is unhappy with all other gods (and mortals) - Vampires don't espcially like rivals for blood
Malerion was part of Sigmars Pantheon and helped him with the Stormcast - in particular the "Danger Room" style training arena as well as being part of the bind Slaanesh and drag the souls out of him plot.
Overread wrote: Or its just a "Daily Mail/Sun" style bit of reporting from the Mortal Realms - ergo sensationalist and not accurate and just a bit of fun.
Ah crap thats bad news - there was some nice bits in AOS Soulbound as well which seemed his - big loss to BL :(
re the "news" articles - yeah its tabloids reporting at its worst - unless you subscribe to the Men in Black view that these are True stories
Well I think it has something to do "what" Malerion is, as unlike other gods (or demigods) Malerion doesn't have an physical body in a normal sense. Also, it would make scary amount of sense that some vampires would ally with Malerion (or shadow demons also like sucking blood).
Nagash is very unahppy with the Aelf gods - but he is unhappy with all other gods (and mortals) - Vampires don't espcially like rivals for blood
Malerion was part of Sigmars Pantheon and helped him with the Stormcast - in particular the "Danger Room" style training arena as well as being part of the bind Slaanesh and drag the souls out of him plot.
Well you see Nagash is kinda a ass for an boss and vampires don't really like him as he tries to boss them around like some minions. And Nagash in return doesn't like undead creatures that aren't 100% loyal to him and only him.
And as vampires inherently flock to shadows and darkness already, Malerion, a god of literal darkness, spite and hatred (and who does not care about morals) could make a nice ally and a way to get away from Nagash.
... Or that is what I thought about. Could be absolutely rubbish.
It would take some epic rationale to have any kind of vampire rebellion against or betrayal of Nagash... unless he was complicit in it for his own goals. Everything that is dead is bound to Nagash. It's impossible for them to betray him.
lare2 wrote: It would take some epic rationale to have any kind of vampire rebellion against or betrayal of Nagash... unless he was complicit in it for his own goals. Everything that is dead is bound to Nagash. It's impossible for them to betray him.
lare2 wrote: It would take some epic rationale to have any kind of vampire rebellion against or betrayal of Nagash... unless he was complicit in it for his own goals. Everything that is dead is bound to Nagash. It's impossible for them to betray him.
The dead are not only linked to Nagash although thats definately what Nagash says is the case - but there are other gods of Death that he devoured. I would think that if they were somehow freed then they could take his place....
That is incredably unlikely however.... Neferata and Mannfred betray him now and again - but its hard to say if its a real betrayal or just them acting acording to his plan. Its not even certain that they are anyting more than recreations of what Nagash remembers about them and Arkyn has stated that they are just aspects of Nagash. Even if thats the case- they would rebel - if they could - neither of them have any love for their master - quite the opposite. Several others have challenged Nagash and all have paid the price including the leader of the Blood Knights - which is why he is bound to his realm travelling castle
Sigmar obviously felt this was the case as he wanted to treat with Neferata sending forces early in the Realmgate Wars to parly with her and assist her in defending her favourite city but then he doubtless knew her from the days of the Pantheon.
Vampire and Nagash have always been uneasy master and minons - especially since Nagash wants everything both dead (and that has major issues for vampire feeding) and direclty under his control - Vampires don;t like being told what to do. Both in the World-that-was and the Mortal realms however they it risks their existance to move against Nagash
And as vampires inherently flock to shadows and darkness already, Malerion, a god of literal darkness, spite and hatred (and who does not care about morals) could make a nice ally and a way to get away from Nagash.
But is Malerion really going to be a better master.....Malerion is Shadows and Illusion not darkness I think
We do have confirmation Malerion exists, since I'm pretty sure they've released stories which he's actually present, or at least, is talking with Morathi
GaroRobe wrote: We do have confirmation Malerion exists, since I'm pretty sure they've released stories which he's actually present, or at least, is talking with Morathi
One of the short stories in Malign Portents has them talking meanwhile Malarion has been interacting with the other gods all the time in the background. The only reason his faction is "missing" from the setting is more because the army just isnt' out yet which means GW hasn't put much focus on them. A few short stories/novella have referenced the shadow aelves and that realm, though keeping things quite shady at the same time so as not to put too much detail/focus on them. They also comprise the greater population of the Realm of Shadow so it would be exceptionally odd for GW to remove them at this stage.
What's more surprising is that they are one of the two big armies that were hinted at very early on and yet they are coming out later. Meanwhile armies like Ossiarchs and Giants have appeared from almost nowhere.
Interestingly this reminds me that the Light Aelves were oft described as being a bit angelic - I wonder if this means that there's some winged aelves hiding in the clouds that we might see in the future. Perhaps one of the other elemental powers after the Bull has clearly claimed the more earthy elements.
I would absolutely love to see an undead legion that isn’t bound to Nagash and is either Order or Destruction. Like a faction of Necromancers trying to achieve immortality by replicating the Katophranes’ success with Shadeglass, or by some other means, specifically because they don’t want to end up in Nagash’s clutches, and surround themselves with armies of failed experiments, some of which have undergone … upgrades… of a sort. I’m thinking lightningpunk zombies fit to match the best of Clan Moulder’s work, just less ratty. In both senses of the word.
Mr_Rose wrote: I would absolutely love to see an undead legion that isn’t bound to Nagash and is either Order or Destruction. Like a faction of Necromancers trying to achieve immortality by replicating the Katophranes’ success with Shadeglass, or by some other means, specifically because they don’t want to end up in Nagash’s clutches, and surround themselves with armies of failed experiments, some of which have undergone … upgrades… of a sort. I’m thinking lightningpunk zombies fit to match the best of Clan Moulder’s work, just less ratty. In both senses of the word.
Sounds great to me !
Nagash and many Undead are all about Order.
There are a number of these in the Lore and agreed it would be great to see more variety - they did a tiny bit with the Mercenary's you could add to factions in the Generals Handbooks - so for instance you can have a Free City with a small number of Blood Knights or a Necromancy and their dead horde.
The Amethyst Princedoms are very anti-Nagash - those that survive and so are many Flesh-Eater Courts.
Nagash gaining hugely in power after the Necroquake has forced alot of the Undead back under his control however.
Mr_Rose wrote: I would absolutely love to see an undead legion that isn’t bound to Nagash and is either Order or Destruction. Like a faction of Necromancers trying to achieve immortality by replicating the Katophranes’ success with Shadeglass, or by some other means, specifically because they don’t want to end up in Nagash’s clutches, and surround themselves with armies of failed experiments, some of which have undergone … upgrades… of a sort. I’m thinking lightningpunk zombies fit to match the best of Clan Moulder’s work, just less ratty. In both senses of the word.
I wonder how they are going to handle Malerion, if he does exist, contrary to what this snippet claims. When the End Times came around, Malekith got a redemption arc of sorts. He became the Eternity King, got to marry Alarielle (even though that was kind of a loveless marriage), and outlawed the Cult of Khaine. I doubt he'll be too happy with Morathi bringing back the Cult.
RaptorusRex wrote: I wonder how they are going to handle Malerion, if he does exist, contrary to what this snippet claims. When the End Times came around, Malekith got a redemption arc of sorts. He became the Eternity King, got to marry Alarielle (even though that was kind of a loveless marriage), and outlawed the Cult of Khaine. I doubt he'll be too happy with Morathi bringing back the Cult.
He was kinda complicit in Morathi bringing the Cult back.
RaptorusRex wrote: I wonder how they are going to handle Malerion, if he does exist, contrary to what this snippet claims. When the End Times came around, Malekith got a redemption arc of sorts. He became the Eternity King, got to marry Alarielle (even though that was kind of a loveless marriage), and outlawed the Cult of Khaine. I doubt he'll be too happy with Morathi bringing back the Cult.
The Cult of Khaine that's in operation now is very different to what it was in the past.
1) The Cult no longer has any Chaos influence besides the bodily mutation to Morathi and the souls saved from Slannesh's belly (which is a constant all the Aelves rescued that way suffer with). So there's no lingering taint or call to chaos. If anything the cult is almost as dedicated to the destruction of chaos as it is the worship of khaine
2) He's likely aware that Khaine isn't even getting the worship energy and that Morathi is siphoning off the power for herself. I think one of the Maligan Portents stories even suggests that he's aware of her trick into twisting of the harvesting spell so she gets more souls.
3) Whilst I don't think they love each other like mother and son (heck Morathi is insanely jealous that he's got godlike power and she has to steal power to get a demi-god powers); they are the last remains of their people in god-form and who survived the Old World. That seems to build a shaky alliance between them. You can tell its not perfect because Morathi was pushed into the darkest corner of the Realm of Shadow whilst Malarion rules almost all the rest (or at least the vast body of the central regions).
4) In the Malign Portents stories we see the two conversing cordially. So they at least get on or see mutual benefit. Considering that the other Aelf gods and Sigmar were all allied heavily against them in the Old World, chances are the pair of them see in each other an essential ally within allies. Someone who they can trust or at least understand better than the others.
He won't war or turn on her overtly, the Cult forms too useful a tool. But I'd wager he would look to ensure her position doesn't rise to challenge his own - be it by spread of the Cult and/or her own power growing. She, meanwhile is likely more than willing to find ways to subvert, control or otherwise steal Malarion's powers and influence.
A big difference now is he needed, and still needs, Morathi's help in the whole chaining-Slaanesh bits. He is aware of Morathi's shenanigans but at the same time I suspect it raises far less of a concern to him when he is a full god and her powerful but explicitly not a goddess.
At any rate, I have been pretty happy with how GW has developed the fluff for AoS and I'd bet they do something cool for Malerion.
RaptorusRex wrote: I wonder how they are going to handle Malerion, if he does exist, contrary to what this snippet claims. When the End Times came around, Malekith got a redemption arc of sorts. He became the Eternity King, got to marry Alarielle (even though that was kind of a loveless marriage), and outlawed the Cult of Khaine. I doubt he'll be too happy with Morathi bringing back the Cult.
The Cult of Khaine that's in operation now is very different to what it was in the past.
1) The Cult no longer has any Chaos influence besides the bodily mutation to Morathi and the souls saved from Slannesh's belly (which is a constant all the Aelves rescued that way suffer with). So there's no lingering taint or call to chaos. If anything the cult is almost as dedicated to the destruction of chaos as it is the worship of khaine
2) He's likely aware that Khaine isn't even getting the worship energy and that Morathi is siphoning off the power for herself. I think one of the Maligan Portents stories even suggests that he's aware of her trick into twisting of the harvesting spell so she gets more souls.
3) Whilst I don't think they love each other like mother and son (heck Morathi is insanely jealous that he's got godlike power and she has to steal power to get a demi-god powers); they are the last remains of their people in god-form and who survived the Old World. That seems to build a shaky alliance between them. You can tell its not perfect because Morathi was pushed into the darkest corner of the Realm of Shadow whilst Malarion rules almost all the rest (or at least the vast body of the central regions).
4) In the Malign Portents stories we see the two conversing cordially. So they at least get on or see mutual benefit. Considering that the other Aelf gods and Sigmar were all allied heavily against them in the Old World, chances are the pair of them see in each other an essential ally within allies. Someone who they can trust or at least understand better than the others.
He won't war or turn on her overtly, the Cult forms too useful a tool. But I'd wager he would look to ensure her position doesn't rise to challenge his own - be it by spread of the Cult and/or her own power growing. She, meanwhile is likely more than willing to find ways to subvert, control or otherwise steal Malarion's powers and influence.
That was a really good overview/summary - thank you very much for posting it!
Yeah and like Sisters of Battle chances are the rest will arrive in a weeks time or so (though Corona messing up plans might have cause GW to shift some dates).
Voss wrote: Oh... That's it?
2 units, a hero and a book is an army box now?
I guess they wanted a box of the stuff that just looked like high elves.
We've known that the initial Lumineth release was going to be a Start Collecting style box (and it's contents) since Preview 2 back in April.
Ok? I figured they'd want to do something with the other kits as well at this point.
Forgive me if I didn't memorize details about a line that turned out disappointing.
Odds are good rest comes week later. Even if initial plan was 2 month gap like sisters the corona caused 3 month releases t be crammed to 1 so gw has lest dates waiting around.
Not sure but if i had to make a bet next week announcement for rest
Two units, a special character, a collector's edition battletome, army tokens, army dice, themed measuring gauge, and spell/ability cards. Less models than old army boxes, but more bling. I imagine some will like that and some will not.
Two units and a character is pretty standard for SC sets nowadays although the actual Start Collecting set will contain some other character for sure.
My point was that this set contains the same amount of models than normal Start Collecting! sets but the book and dice make it considerably more expensive. It is still a good way to start a Lumineth army and I bet this will sell like hotcakes due to being new army and fear of missing out.
Agreed, it's totally a Start Collecting! (and even on the lighter side of SC! boxes, I would say) + Book + a significant markup for some useless gak.
Of course collectors gonna collect and be happy about it, but it's far from the perfect starting point for a lot of players. It's like a preorder markup instead of a preorder discount.
I wouldn't really use the SC price as a comparison for this as we'll probably not see an SC for Lumineth for the next coming year and none exist currently. Add to that this is the limited edition tomes the price is higher than normal tomes.
The savings are minimal in this, but there are slight savings. However, this is a collector's item more than anything else.
I just wonder how much delay there will be between this box and the actual release. It was like a month or so between the SoB box and the actual SoB release(and then a longer wait between wave 1 and 2).
145euro for box...okay that's pass. Either i get modeis plus book(maybe even with better cover) or solo boxes are even more expensive that i fear making interst on army zero. It's win-win with no scenario i regret not buying.
Sisters were 2 month for first wave, week to 2nd and about 2 month for 3rd and last. But as gw is condesating 3 months releases to 1 could easily be next week. There's something non-40k next week to be announced by sound of rumours. Rest of elves would make sense. This originally on april, rest here(at lightest time of year) and corona 3 to 1 condensation.
Just noticed the article mentions that this content makes a 1000 point army. That means that the points are either way out of whack, or this is a super elite army. It also could be that the Light of Eltharion is just really expensive as a hero as well.
Sasori wrote: Just noticed the article mentions that this content makes a 1000 point army. That means that the points are either way out of whack, or this is a super elite army. It also could be that the Light of Eltharion is just really expensive as a hero as well.
It doesn’t explicitly say though that it’s a 1000pt list, but says you’ll have, “the makings of,” a 1k list. The leaked points a while back from the white dwarf, or whereverr it came from, suggest this box set is actually about 470pts, but has the HQ and 2 troops you need for a 1k list. So I’d say that’s what they’re referring to.
Unless they spelled it out badly and meant good start toward 1000 pts...if not either super elite(but elves are unlikely to be very tough so that would end up badly) or eltharion breaks norms being god like modei that isn't gargantuan sized
Sasori wrote: Just noticed the article mentions that this content makes a 1000 point army. That means that the points are either way out of whack, or this is a super elite army. It also could be that the Light of Eltharion is just really expensive as a hero as well.
It doesn’t explicitly say though that it’s a 1000pt list, but says you’ll have, “the makings of,” a 1k list. The leaked points a while back from the white dwarf, or whereverr it came from, suggest this box set is actually about 470pts, but has the HQ and 2 troops you need for a 1k list. So I’d say that’s what they’re referring to.
I wonder if I'm more likely to get a better deal grabbing Eltharion from somebody parting out this box or just wait for the empty armor's individual release.
Sasori wrote: Just noticed the article mentions that this content makes a 1000 point army. That means that the points are either way out of whack, or this is a super elite army. It also could be that the Light of Eltharion is just really expensive as a hero as well.
It doesn’t explicitly say though that it’s a 1000pt list, but says you’ll have, “the makings of,” a 1k list. The leaked points a while back from the white dwarf, or whereverr it came from, suggest this box set is actually about 470pts, but has the HQ and 2 troops you need for a 1k list. So I’d say that’s what they’re referring to.
jullevi wrote: This is effectively Start Collecting! set worth of models for twice the cost of SC.
That is plainly untrue.
80€ of the start collecting box + 30€ for the book +15 for the dice= 125 and the box costs 145€. Yeah I don't see the deal here.
I do not mean to comment on the value, I mean is stating it is a set of start collecting models for twice the price is obviously untrue. Which it is, objectively.
How much value the box has is a different point.
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highlord tamburlaine wrote: I wonder if I'm more likely to get a better deal grabbing Eltharion from somebody parting out this box or just wait for the empty armor's individual release.
They will probably give him the traditional special character price bump, getting him while he's being parted out will probably be cheaper if not equal in price.
jullevi wrote: This is effectively Start Collecting! set worth of models for twice the cost of SC.
That is plainly untrue.
80€ of the start collecting box + 30€ for the book +15 for the dice= 125 and the box costs 145€. Yeah I don't see the deal here.
I do not mean to comment on the value, I mean is stating it is a set of start collecting models for twice the price is obviously untrue. Which it is, objectively.
How much value the box has is a different point.
This just seems like a silly semantics argument. He said it was effectively a Start Collecting! box worth of models. Saying something is a X worth of Y is a common expression used for comparison not denoting equivalency.
To repeat: This box has roughly the same number of miniatures as a Star Collecting! box, but costs twice as much. We all understand that this box is not in fact a Start Collecting! box.
Maybe I'm not clear on what you hold as objective fact. Ninth Musketeer, how many (or which) models would you expect to be added or subtracted from the box in question so that you would agree with the statement: "This box has roughly the same number of models as a Start Collecting! box."?
tneva82 wrote: Well one more unit(monster) and it would be better comparison to SC boxes.
But yeah value is rather poor. You are paying for the variant cover art, special dices and for right to get the book and models among first.
For me it’s not worth it. The sisters release was executed much better and offer much better value.
Do we know the UK price? I’m guessing £130
Based on equivalent boxes it will be £110 UK. I agree that it's not good value unless you are the kind of person who buys the collectors editions of battletomes and codexes.
I am sure they will eventually do a start collecting box for the Lumineth. I will wait for that.
jullevi wrote: This is effectively Start Collecting! set worth of models for twice the cost of SC.
That is plainly untrue.
80€ of the start collecting box + 30€ for the book +15 for the dice= 125 and the box costs 145€. Yeah I don't see the deal here.
I do not mean to comment on the value, I mean is stating it is a set of start collecting models for twice the price is obviously untrue. Which it is, objectively.
How much value the box has is a different point.
This just seems like a silly semantics argument. He said it was effectively a Start Collecting! box worth of models. Saying something is a X worth of Y is a common expression used for comparison not denoting equivalency.
To repeat: This box has roughly the same number of miniatures as a Star Collecting! box, but costs twice as much. We all understand that this box is not in fact a Start Collecting! box.
Maybe I'm not clear on what you hold as objective fact. Ninth Musketeer, how many (or which) models would you expect to be added or subtracted from the box in question so that you would agree with the statement: "This box has roughly the same number of models as a Start Collecting! box."?
But it is not effectively a SC box, because SC boxes do not include a battletome. Even disregarding the other elements as non-essential (already a notable subtraction) that creates a significant, objective, difference between the two.
tneva82 wrote: Yet doesn't change value of models. Here you are paying for privilege of paying more.
No, not really. While the models definetely are SC! value, it's the other items in it, that make this more a bundle of the Week 1 release in a box and with a little bit of saving.
Because this isn't really correct:
80€ of the start collecting box + 30€ for the book +15 for the dice= 125 and the box costs 145€. Yeah I don't see the deal here.
Collector's Edition BT is 60€, dice are usually 20€ (or 25?), it's an acrylic gauge, not cardboard 12€ (?) and cards 8-12€
tneva82 wrote: We know SC prices, we know battletome prices. You are paying more than the 2 combined.
What you are paying is for the privilege of paying more. Wee!
You know you are arguing that if you buy two units and 1 hero it should always come at a SC price regardless of whether there exists an SC for it or not? It's a very poor argument that might only hold if they release an actual SC containing those models. That is, however, not here or now. So comparing this to an SC is a very dishonest comparison right now. Hell, the price on the tome you mentioned is dishonest because GW has historically sold Collector's Tome for a much higher markup(around double). We must go by what the content is sold for in actuality than what we think it is worth.
So the cost of the stuff inside based on similar items:
Horse unit = 35 pounds
Spear unit = 30 pounds
Hero unit = 17.5 pounds
Collector's Tome = 50 pounds. A lot of people seem to forget that these specialty books are really expensive when GW sells them.
Dice, cards, and stuff = if we are generous, about 20 pounds. Faction Dice packs tend to be 10-15 pounds either way.
So that would be around 150 pounds worth of stuff, and the box is currently going for 110-115 pounds. As I mentioned in a previous post it is not the largest savings one can expect, but not the worst. The problem is more that if you are not interested in a Collector's Tome and the small faction extras this kit is not for you. If you want the basic tome, and use your own dice, this box will surely be too expensive for you for what you get.
tneva82 wrote: We know SC prices, we know battletome prices. You are paying more than the 2 combined.
What you are paying is for the privilege of paying more. Wee!
Yea I don't know if you're new to GW or never properly looked.. but the Dice, the Cards, the Tokens etc, all that is stuff usually sold individually in limited print runs, that each have their own price. It's not just SC + Battletome, it's SC + EVERY other limited edition product run they usually do and put out. Oh and don't forget the 2nd edition pocket sized rulebook. But yea the dice alone add like, what is it usually, £10 or something? It's less a SC box and more a "get every single first wave limited edition product + SC box in one."
It is why I have been debating though that, despite I REALLY want to get started with my Lumineth.. I am honestly not a fan of the Yellow dice (less the pattern more the colour of dice) and I prefer the regular Battletome border style over the Ltd Ed no border style, and I already have a 2nd ed pocket Rulebook. Soo.. as much as I do want this ASAP.. I can't help but feel i'll be spending a lot of money for at least 3 items I don't really need or want.
First off; the last rule is bleh. More mortal wound spam we did not need, and more of GWs inability to transition to a system of 6s to hit = automatic wound, 6s to wound = MW, instead of 6s to hit = skip the whole process.
With that out of the way, I am very impressed with what I am seeing, The shining company rule, in particular, I think is fantastic and very well designed. It provides a powerful bonus but also comes with real downsides and leaves the activation of the effect in player's hands. Having every model needing to be b2b with at least two others, coupled with the bonus being lost permanently should that be broken, effectively eliminates any gamey tactics that would normally accompany such a rule. And it encourages fluffy behavior on the tabletop which I always love to see. While there may be some exploit I am not recognizing, as of now I really like this rule and ditto for the Alarith pushback ability. Good job GW, you were not exaggerating when you said this is a very tactical army.
Picking two units at a time is a nice successor to ASF, without being as broken as simply giving the army ASF would be. I like it as a compromise. We've seen this rule before though, so not as exciting.
Aetherquartz cannot be be wholly assessed until we have everything. Right now it looks pretty powerful, given that battleshock is a commonly-ignored mechanic. But if they lack easy access to immunity the penalty could be notable.
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eflix29 wrote: They look quite cool, but with ZERO options or dual builds, not so tempting ...
TBF, that is how High Elves were. And the hammer bois/battle cattle do have multiple weapon options.
Oof. Easy pass then. I will just wait for the units to available separately. I am still a bit bummed we are only seeing four actual units in the whole Battletome.
I am bit perplexed with the Lumineth. Is this the whole release? Didn't they have four 'aspect'? Yet we have only seen the earth guys... What happened to the others?
Crimson wrote: I am bit perplexed with the Lumineth. Is this the whole release? Didn't they have four 'aspect'? Yet we have only seen the earth guys... What happened to the others?
That's an extremely good question. It might be they plan on adding the others gradually, or that the others are tied more to Tyrion than Teclis.
Crimson wrote: I am bit perplexed with the Lumineth. Is this the whole release? Didn't they have four 'aspect'? Yet we have only seen the earth guys... What happened to the others?
Luminoth have got 1 of their 4 elements and the size of their current release is broadly the same as other new AoS armies. AoS has a lot of smaller factions like that. I suspect that in time we will see more of their elemental units and more roster options released; much like for many of the other races in the game. Heck Daughters of Khaine have the least number of kits of any AoS army and were one of the first new armies (they only appear to have more options because most of their kits are duel and the Cauldron makes a whole roster of leaders).
I would expect that this week we get the limited boxed set and next we we get a regular battletome and individual unit releases; much like we saw with several other armies. That said Corona might mean that GW is staggering things so that they get Luminoth out the door and then in a few more weeks they get more individual units - the idea being that they are tryign to spread their load; but its very hard to tell what their plans or or what might have changed due to Corona.
Makes one wonder how accurate current belief that the 40k launch set is 120£(based on mystery box draw prize value on the launch month). If that price is accurate then makes this look even worse. Limited ed rulebook and 2 armies with lot more models for 10£ more.
Makes me think my guess that the 120£ is non-limited yet to be announced starter set and the launch box is lot more than 120£.
Alpharius wrote: I'm loving the look and feel of the Lumineth stuff so far but...is it really only 4 units in the book?
I think the person who mentioned there only being 4 units meant like 4 actual ‘core’ units, which there are - the spearman, archers, cavalry and hammer guys. The rest is heroes or monsters.
Alpharius wrote: I'm loving the look and feel of the Lumineth stuff so far but...is it really only 4 units in the book?
I think the person who mentioned there only being 4 units meant like 4 actual ‘core’ units, which there are - the spearman, archers, cavalry and hammer guys. The rest is heroes or monsters.
Yea, this, if this is what Alpharius meant then yes, there is only 4 units. Also strangely, there is only 2 non-named Heroes, being the Alarith Stonemage and the Scinthari Cathallar, both mages. There is an oddity in that there is no generic melee or combat hero, unless the Mountain Avatar guys are Heroes instead of Monsters, I know the named one is a hero but assumed the regular Mountain Avatars were going to be monsters not heroes.
Part of me feels they've designed Lumineth to be an army that'll come in two batches. From reading what we know of their lore so far, these are very much both Teclis' and Tyrions people, so I think sometime in the future, maybe a year or two from now, we'll get another release for them that will be the Tyrion half that'll include the more Martial elements and some of the other aspects of the Spirits we've not seen in model form yet. There seems to be evidence to potentially support this, Hysh and Lumineth are split into 8 Nations, with 4 nations being more Teclian aligned and other 4 Tyrionic aligned. From what we are told, Syar, Iliatha, Ymetrica and Zaitrec are the Teclis aligned nations, and considering from the BattRep we know Ymetrica is a sub faction, and from articles recently, Syar and Illiatha are another two, I suspect that Zaitrec will be a 4th and then later one, we'll get another release which will have Tyrion and his 4 nations as it's sub factions, Oultrai, Aurathrai, Helon and Alumnia. This is where i'm guessing we'll get our combat/martial hero options to compensate for the Teclis side, and maybe some of the units for the other spirits (Zenith, Wind, River) to round off and complete the faction as a whole. I could be just nuts but it seems plausible to me from what we know lorewise and what we've seen in model release so far.
Sounds feasible enough. And more good reason for me to wait. Not fan of named characters so just 2 generic mages might get bit old for characters and 4 units likewise.
But we'll see. Lot depends on price of individual boxes.
Consider the Alarith are like essentially the monks/mages/disciples of the Mountain, I really really hope my predictions of a second wave come true and we'll get to see the disciples of the Zenith, Wind and River. Would love to see like a sword unit that had a whole motive of flowing like river or the wind etc.
Earth127 wrote: this feels like it's half of the lumineth they have planned but they're saving up scultping the rest untill a later date. Looking at you Tyrion.
How many kits did the Ossiarch start with?
About 10 or 11 i think. Well easy to check. No new units yet. Sisters got 8 or 9 in first 2 weeks with 7 or 8 2 month later for total of 16.
Alpharius wrote: I'm loving the look and feel of the Lumineth stuff so far but...is it really only 4 units in the book?
I think the person who mentioned there only being 4 units meant like 4 actual ‘core’ units, which there are - the spearman, archers, cavalry and hammer guys. The rest is heroes or monsters.
Yea, this, if this is what Alpharius meant then yes, there is only 4 units. Also strangely, there is only 2 non-named Heroes, being the Alarith Stonemage and the Scinthari Cathallar, both mages. There is an oddity in that there is no generic melee or combat hero, unless the Mountain Avatar guys are Heroes instead of Monsters, I know the named one is a hero but assumed the regular Mountain Avatars were going to be monsters not heroes.
Part of me feels they've designed Lumineth to be an army that'll come in two batches. From reading what we know of their lore so far, these are very much both Teclis' and Tyrions people, so I think sometime in the future, maybe a year or two from now, we'll get another release for them that will be the Tyrion half that'll include the more Martial elements and some of the other aspects of the Spirits we've not seen in model form yet. There seems to be evidence to potentially support this, Hysh and Lumineth are split into 8 Nations, with 4 nations being more Teclian aligned and other 4 Tyrionic aligned. From what we are told, Syar, Iliatha, Ymetrica and Zaitrec are the Teclis aligned nations, and considering from the BattRep we know Ymetrica is a sub faction, and from articles recently, Syar and Illiatha are another two, I suspect that Zaitrec will be a 4th and then later one, we'll get another release which will have Tyrion and his 4 nations as it's sub factions, Oultrai, Aurathrai, Helon and Alumnia. This is where i'm guessing we'll get our combat/martial hero options to compensate for the Teclis side, and maybe some of the units for the other spirits (Zenith, Wind, River) to round off and complete the faction as a whole. I could be just nuts but it seems plausible to me from what we know lorewise and what we've seen in model release so far.
I really hope this is true. I was excited for the river, Sky, and zenith units too. I think I will wait until the second wave though, assuming that is the plan.
It is not unheard of for an AoS release to have this few units etc, but having more is also not unheard of. Already posted my thoughts, I think the Lumineth is clearly split into two releases and there will be another one coming. Just don't expect it to be soon...
tneva82 wrote: Sounds feasible enough. And more good reason for me to wait. Not fan of named characters so just 2 generic mages might get bit old for characters and 4 units likewise.
But we'll see. Lot depends on price of individual boxes.
I agree with all of the above!
And yes, definitely an army I'm very interested in, but will also be waiting a while to see how it expands to offer more choice, variety, etc.
Seven potentially eight. The battlegoat has an alternate build for a named character and the Stonewardens have a second weapon option that might be its own unit entry.
H.B.M.C. wrote: So despite all their high-mindedness, the Elves still couldn't hold it together, expel their inner darkness, and had yet another great fall.
Seems the Children of Asuryan are as doomed as they ever were.
Some leaks floating on FB, I don't speak German so whoever wants can check them out before they're taken off. Anyway, LRL can ally only with IDK. Super bummer.
Knight wrote: Some leaks floating on FB, I don't speak German so whoever wants can check them out before they're taken off. Anyway, LRL can ally only with IDK. Super bummer.
Usually people are pretty diligent about getting those translated out.
I'm sure the leaks will be eventually translated. I'm in no rush to retype the text into Google Translate or trying to figure it with my broken German.
Biggest and most interesting thing I've caught was that the Sentinels(bowmen) have two fire modes. One is 18" with 3+/4+ -1 Rend and 1 damage but requires line of sight while the other is 30" with 4+/4+ no Rend and 1 damage but can be fired outside of LOS.
They have the Sunmetal Weapons rule, but I can't figure out if they deal MWs on hits or wounds of 6s. The Lantern has some funky stuff too.
Kanluwen wrote: Biggest and most interesting thing I've caught was that the Sentinels(bowmen) have two fire modes. One is 18" with 3+/4+ -1 Rend and 1 damage but requires line of sight while the other is 30" with 4+/4+ no Rend and 1 damage but can be fired outside of LOS.
They have the Sunmetal Weapons rule, but I can't figure out if they deal MWs on hits or wounds of 6s. The Lantern has some funky stuff too.
The Sunmetal Weapons were shown in the article, they are MW on 6+ unmodified To Hit, and can be buffed by Power of Hysh to inflict MWs on a 5+ instead.
