Kanluwen wrote: The things at the bottom are literally called "specialisms". While they might act like battle honours, it's what most people would have noted as "specialists" from the previous iteration of Kill Team.
But it doesn't exactly work like that unfortunately. Those "specialisms" in KT2 are only available in Narrative Play, they cannot be used in Matched Play.
I reckon I'll go "Open Play" in this edition as well. This time, one of the twists will be that every team can have an X number (max of 1 sounds the most appealing ATM) of specialists even in Matched Play missions.
Yeah, but who cares about Matched Play for Kill Team?
Why would you think that? This first box isn't (sure the barricades/junk piles are repackagings, but the buildings themselves and some of the scatter terrain are entirely new).
Fingers crossed so much for plastic Tyranid spore chimneys
I'm definitely thinking we'll see some. One of the warzones mentioned in the Core Rules for 40k proper is an Aeldari protected "archipelago" that Hive Fleet Ourobos is moving towards...and we have a few Rumor Engines that look to be Ranger related alongside some that look Lictor related. Would be an ace set up for a Kill Team box, Rangers vs Lictors.
Here's hoping one of the new war zones involves a hive/built up location, with brand new Khorne Bezerkers rampaging round with their very noticeable kill counter visors on... Ideally murdering something really weak and insignificant like fire warriors which would have the double whammy of being an insult to Eldar again whilst they wait for new models.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Here's hoping one of the new war zones involves a hive/built up location, with brand new Khorne Bezerkers rampaging round with their very noticeable kill counter visors on... Ideally murdering something really weak and insignificant like fire warriors which would have the double whammy of being an insult to Eldar again whilst they wait for new models.
Well, Armageddon is a warzone that's in play...
Going from the main 40k rulebook?
Armageddon: Orks v Imperium(Inquisition, Grey Knights, Guard, Knights, you name it it's present) v World Eaters+Khorne Daemons
One that I don't have the name handy on: Craftworlds+Ynnari+Harlequins+Corsairs v Tyranids and "assorted native species". Lore has it that the Aeldari are pretty fractured in the area too, with Biel-Tan+Saim-Hann being in charge of the Craftworld aligned forces and the Ynnari doing their own thing with their own forces.
Fifth Sphere Expansion: Tau are invading a sector of Imperial space, taking advantage of the Imperium being at war...oh and it's Genestealer Cults.
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endlesswaltz123 wrote: Aren't Lictors a little too big for Killteam though, to get a meaningful size kill team out of I mean?
Though I suppose Custodes will never be more than 5 or so models so 4-5 Lictors could work
I could easily see a "Vanguard Organisms" Kill Team consisting of Lictors with some gribbly friends or terrain features, ala the Kommandos getting a Grot.
Lictors are too iconic to leave out; actually showing up on a regular 40k battlefield is a secondary purpose for them. Pulling KT-like operations is what they are literally made for.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Lictors are too iconic to leave out; actually showing up on a regular 40k battlefield is a secondary purpose for them. Pulling KT-like operations is what they are literally made for.
So do we know if the minis will be available at some point separately or are they going to be box set exclusive? I don't really play KT but want the Kommandos.
Ahtman wrote: So do we know if the minis will be available at some point separately or are they going to be box set exclusive? I don't really play KT but want the Kommandos.
They were pretty adamant that everything in the box would be available separately at some point, but equally opaque about when that would be.
Ahtman wrote: So do we know if the minis will be available at some point separately or are they going to be box set exclusive? I don't really play KT but want the Kommandos.
They were pretty adamant that everything in the box would be available separately at some point, but equally opaque about when that would be.
Probably because it might be up in the air?
The general lead time from boxed set to general release has seemingly been going down a bit though.
Indomitus released on July 25th(2 week preorder period of July 11th to 25th), "Honoured of the Chapter" and "Royal Court" both went up for preorder on Feb 27th 2021. December and November traditionally tend towards being Christmas-y product bundles or releases for Specialist Games styled products so it's hard to count those two months, IMO.
The board layout of the mission was the best one so far IMO
How much of this lopsided-ness is player experience / bad choices / dice? It seems like Ash struggles to finish anything off and then he gets out-activated. I also feel like super gobbo's potential gets wasted a lot.
It does seem like the Orks hit harder and last longer.
But I've read a few of the comments that say Ash's opponent is a better player in general. So I'm willing to believe that and continue hoping everything is balanced
Custodes fire teams are 2 guys, so a max of 4 on the table in the larger games.
They are pretty damn tough though, at 18 wounds 2+ save. They also ignore injuries and stun effects.
Im still confused how AP works exactly though when dealing with invunerable saves.
One game i saw them taking AP to reduce the pool of defence dice, which would make an invunerable save useless? Or would you for example get to roll 1 regular 2+ and two 4+ against AP2 if you had a shield?
No, no, you see, they're simply stabbing them in that one part of their armour when there's a milimeter-wide gap between two pieces, everytime without failure, with perfect precision.
Eihnlazer wrote: Custodes fire teams are 2 guys, so a max of 4 on the table in the larger games.
They are pretty damn tough though, at 18 wounds 2+ save. They also ignore injuries and stun effects.
Im still confused how AP works exactly though when dealing with invunerable saves.
One game i saw them taking AP to reduce the pool of defence dice, which would make an invunerable save useless? Or would you for example get to roll 1 regular 2+ and two 4+ against AP2 if you had a shield?
Dune rules, the power fields don't work in melee. Though cover is one automatic pass on the defence dice, so some things could go that route.
Melee is actually pretty bad against Custodes unless your guy is buffed up.
They get 4-5 dice on a 2+ with Lethal 5+. Your almost never gonna win that fight.
You can of course Suicide guys in to deal some damage, but the Stode will almost always win.
Best route is Snipers with mortal wounds and just focus firing till they are down to less than 10 wounds, then suicide some guys into them to finish them off.
a_typical_hero wrote: Not going to lie, if they plan to release two newly designed troop boxes along with the same amount of imho amazing terrain, I'm quite excited for that.
Got no interest in KT at all, but the content makes good use for 40k.
I feel the same way, could be a great way for a lot of factions to get refreshes on their basic troops and some nice new terrain to boot. More Xenos terrain would be great!
1. Something you already know about.
2. New products for this product line, but we can't say what they are.
3. New products for this product line, but we can't say what they are.
4. And so on...
5. ... and so on...
6. ... and so on...
Such reveals. Much previews. Wow!
This strikes me as something they put together in a hurry to respond to the criticism leveled against them concerning the abandonment of previous skirmish games.
While only time will tell, it at least shows that they are thinking about support.
schoon wrote: This strikes me as something they put together in a hurry to respond to the criticism leveled against them concerning the abandonment of previous skirmish games.
While only time will tell, it at least shows that they are thinking about support.
That's actually a good point. I hadn't thought of that.
Still, they could at least tease the next immediate release with a silhouette or even the Warzone name or whatever (especially if it's a new Warzone).
schoon wrote: This strikes me as something they put together in a hurry to respond to the criticism leveled against them concerning the abandonment of previous skirmish games.
While only time will tell, it at least shows that they are thinking about support.
That's actually a good point. I hadn't thought of that.
Still, they could at least tease the next immediate release with a silhouette or even the Warzone name or whatever (especially if it's a new Warzone).
Yeah, this is highly likely. They're trying to put out fires from the hobbying standpoint without addressing other concerns people have with the company.
Cursed City was a victim of Covid and bad planning. Kill Team needs to be a success because it's a tool to get people to buy 40k sets.
kirotheavenger wrote: It does seem like the Orks hit harder and last longer.
But I've read a few of the comments that say Ash's opponent is a better player in general. So I'm willing to believe that and continue hoping everything is balanced
It does seem the Krieg operatives generally have more synergy than the Orks and work together better, but are softer and their average weapon deals less damage. That all said, I have watched GMG for years and I would agree that Owen is probably a bit better at the tactics element of games than Ash. They do make some great battle reports though, and do seem to have a lot of fun.
schoon wrote: This strikes me as something they put together in a hurry to respond to the criticism leveled against them concerning the abandonment of previous skirmish games.
While only time will tell, it at least shows that they are thinking about support.
That's actually a good point. I hadn't thought of that.
Still, they could at least tease the next immediate release with a silhouette or even the Warzone name or whatever (especially if it's a new Warzone).
I figure they’ll start those teases once this box is actually released, as they don’t want to distract too much from the new shinies. Look at the new shinies!
tauist wrote: Some in depth modelling details concerning the new box
Also spotted a DW gunner datacard
Is it just me, or do those mould lines look worse than a lot of GW's recent kits?
No, it's not just you, I spotted it on another video too, especially the Kommandos.
It means they have made a loooooot of those sprues, as you don't tend to usually see mould lines like that until the moulds have been in use for a long time.
schoon wrote: This strikes me as something they put together in a hurry to respond to the criticism leveled against them concerning the abandonment of previous skirmish games.
While only time will tell, it at least shows that they are thinking about support.
That's actually a good point. I hadn't thought of that.
Still, they could at least tease the next immediate release with a silhouette or even the Warzone name or whatever (especially if it's a new Warzone).
I figure they’ll start those teases once this box is actually released, as they don’t want to distract too much from the new shinies. Look at the new shinies!
Details on new models are likely already scheduled as content for a studio preview. Gencon seems to be getting one next month, and GW love to do previews around UK bank holiday weekends so there might be news at the end of August too.
It means they have made a loooooot of those sprues, as you don't tend to usually see mould lines like that until the moulds have been in use for a long time.
It also might be a speed thing, not wear ant tear of the moulds.
It means they have made a loooooot of those sprues, as you don't tend to usually see mould lines like that until the moulds have been in use for a long time.
It also might be a speed thing, not wear ant tear of the moulds.
That's true, or possibly one of the new machines not calibrated 100% properly. I do think the DKoK and Kommandos will have been mass produced in very large quantities though.
given how long it takes to go from design to boxes ready to ship the quarterly release schedule isn't a response to anything that's been said online since they started teasing this,
even if the had all the the mini & terrain design done they'd never get the rest of the stuff done and into the uk to ship the next quarters stuff, even if the leave it to the very last day to announce a preorder,
the third quarter might just be feasible, but i'd suspect even 6 full months wouldn't be enough time to be certain everything would get done in time
so it's all been planned for ages (whether its good or not)
It means they have made a loooooot of those sprues, as you don't tend to usually see mould lines like that until the moulds have been in use for a long time.
It also might be a speed thing, not wear ant tear of the moulds.
That's true, or possibly one of the new machines not calibrated 100% properly. I do think the DKoK and Kommandos will have been mass produced in very large quantities though.
I'm thinking speed or pressure of casting might be the issue, as the mould lines have a white hue to them which I remember seeing in some models I bought many years ago that were only newly released (so you'd expect the moulds to be in good condition).
If they're releasing DKoK separately soon, they might have cast a lot, but I can't imagine they would have cast a huge number of Kommandos as I reckon the market for them outside of this box isn't going to be huge.
Looking at the options for the Kommandos, I hope the Boyz have similar options when they come out. It'd kinda suck to have lots of options for the relatively rare Kommandos and have basic monopose for the most numerous unit in an army.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: given how long it takes to go from design to boxes ready to ship the quarterly release schedule isn't a response to anything that's been said online since they started teasing this,
even if the had all the the mini & terrain design done they'd never get the rest of the stuff done and into the uk to ship the next quarters stuff, even if the leave it to the very last day to announce a preorder,
the third quarter might just be feasible, but i'd suspect even 6 full months wouldn't be enough time to be certain everything would get done in time
so it's all been planned for ages (whether its good or not)
indeed, this announcement is almost certainly just the public announcement of an existing internal GW plan that, in my estimate, would have been "Da Plan" since at least last year, and quite probably the outline details were agreed pre-covid.
they are almost certianly currently producing the boxes for the next pair of kill teams with the initial runs already stacked and ready for shipping to far flung wearhouses for forward staging out to retailers after the annoucement is of the involved parties in a month or so. Detailed design work on the Q1 2022 release is likely in final stages and contracts and tenders for the artwork, box design and production etc are already being drawn up and signed. So, yhea, they 100% have already decided what kill teams are going to be in released in next 6 months, they just arent telling us what they are yet.
thats just the way these things work. The lead times for international logistics basically demand it. By the time anything is publicly announced, the kits in question will be en route to Australia, new zeeland, china, etc, and they can be like 90% certain that shops will have it in store on the planned release date, which they keep a secret until the week before pre-orders to ensure that the product has cleared the logistic system and is at the point of sale.
They deliberately limit their public pronouncements in this manner in case of logistic fowl-ups, so they can gloss over problems by just not letting us know about things until they are sure they can deliver. Yes, it keeps us in the dark, but it limits thier own exposure to breaking promises by announcing something that then needs to be delayed by weeks because, say, the boxes are stuck in a container on a ship, held up by a ship wedged sideways in the suez (to name a well known recent shipping problem), or the longshoremen in Florida are on strike, or the ship to Australia gets impounded in Dubai because of a customs issue, etc, etc.....you get the idea.
its not the idea situation for us consumers, but it is the safest and logical one for GW to take, unfortunatly.
The terrain looks very tempting... I kinda want to kitbash it with some imperial terrain to make some Necromundaish scap-city terrain. I wonder how much it will cost separately? If I want the terrain and the guard, will it they cost more separately than this whole box?
xerxeskingofking wrote: its not the idea situation for us consumers, but it is the safest and logical one for GW to take, unfortunatly.
It actually is the ideal situation for us as customers. Nothing makes customers more miserable than being shown something that they can buy at an unknown future date, and then being told they need to wait for it. Worse is when they are told the date they will be able to buy something, and then delays hit and a new date isn't available. Its harder for us to be disappointed about something if we don't know it exists in the first place.
privateer4hire wrote: Almost certainly the separate stuff will cost more if you get them outside of the launch box.
I'm sure they will cost more, but I really don't want the orks or the rules & other crap and I probably wouldn't bother to find someone to sell them to. So they basically have no value to me.
So the question becomes which will cost more, the orc terrain + Krieg guardsmen or the Killteam box.
xerxeskingofking wrote: They deliberately limit their public pronouncements in this manner in case of logistic fowl-ups, so they can gloss over problems by just not letting us know about things until they are sure they can deliver. Yes, it keeps us in the dark, but it limits thier own exposure to breaking promises by announcing something that then needs to be delayed by weeks because, say, the boxes are stuck in a container on a ship, held up by a ship wedged sideways in the suez (to name a well known recent shipping problem), or the longshoremen in Florida are on strike, or the ship to Australia gets impounded in Dubai because of a customs issue, etc, etc.....you get the idea.
its not the idea situation for us consumers, but it is the safest and logical one for GW to take, unfortunatly.
And the alternative is to function like Fantasy Flight Games, who announces on a much longer lead time (probably due to manufacturing their products in smaller print runs and having a much less well-developed logistical supply chain from a warehousing standpoint, so they *really* want to get early pre-orders to help them ballpark their print run sizes), and then very frequently encounter delays and missed release dates, to the point that they have a notorious reputation for slipping release dates.
So you can either get praise for long lead-time announcements and previews, and then slammed for missing your targets, or you can get slammed for not providing longer-window timelines and (sort of) praised for at least hitting your quick-turnaround release promises. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
There are more states of being than "The way GW does it" and "The way FFG does it". Plus, FFG's method always comes with too many counters and cards.
Crimson wrote: If I want the terrain and the guard, will it they cost more separately than this whole box?
The terrain will likely cost about 70%-80% the cost of the box when it finally comes out. The Guard squad will be the same as every other 10-man box that comes out.
So here's what I expect the game to be in practice
Two tiers of factions
One is the "Compendium factions" that have barely functional, get-you-by lists with just 1-2 fighter profiles per plastic kit and no specialists worth mentioning, because no comms model, no comms rules.
Then the Boxed Set factions, with a fancy new kit bringing them all the relevant specialists, but probably utterly inflexible as their list is literally "1 of everything in this one box" and the rules themselves paywalled in the giant boxed sets, as we've already seen starting with Pariah Nexus.
Compendium factions will probably resent the other group their fancy rules, while the Boxed Set factions will resent the other group the flexibility to build what they want from multiple kits.
And playing them against each other will be balance hell.
From Dosjetka over on Bolter and Chainsword. Dosjetka posted about the Krieg Vs Kommando box last year (including that it would have new Ork terrain), they heard this from the same person -
There will also be a Kill Team box with Sisters Neophytes (new kit and unit entry) vs T'au Pathfinders (upgrade kit) with existing Imperial city terrain.
I'm sure the Krieg squad will be at least $50. I'm wondering how much the terrain will sell for separately. I guess it depends on if it all comes together and with the board. The Battlezone: Mechanicus – Charadon set currently sells for $150, but that has two boards in it. I'm not sure how the number of sprues of terrain compares, but it looks like it fills about the same amount of space (one board worth). The Warhammer 40,000 Command Edition Battlefield Expansion Set is only $90 and has one board, but significantly less terrain. So I assume this ork terrain will be somewhere between those two, probably closer to the $150. So I'm also thinking that if I want the terrain and the guard, it will probably be about the same price (at retail) as getting the Kill Team starter.
Terrain is pretty basic, mind you. Two copies each of two ruin-corner sprues, one oil pump sprue and the old ork rubble sprue from Speed Freeks/Mekboy Shop. Everything is monobuild so you're already starting off with 2 identical copies of the walls. It's about on par in material with the newer Kill Zones that cost the same as a Start Collecting.
If splitting a box I'd go straight quarter value for each of the squads, terrain, and rules materials.
Aeneades wrote: From Dosjetka over on Bolter and Chainsword. Dosjetka posted about the Krieg Vs Kommando box last year (including that it would have new Ork terrain), they heard this from the same person -
There will also be a Kill Team box with Sisters Neophytes (new kit and unit entry) vs T'au Pathfinders (upgrade kit) with existing Imperial city terrain.
Thats a shame when Tau scenery kits could be used instead. Nearly had me interested there for a moment...
Yeah those wouldn't make functional Kill Zones at all IMHO.
Of course it's a shame they don't just put out a little Kill Zone of new terrain for each xenos race... but we have 1 now and that's 1 more than we've had in 30 years.
lord_blackfang wrote: If splitting a box I'd go straight quarter value for each of the squads, terrain, and rules materials.
Given what GW charges for terrain, I'd be biasing a bit more toward the terrain being "worth" more, there's no way you'd get that much terrain for the cost of a squad when they come out separately.
lord_blackfang wrote: If splitting a box I'd go straight quarter value for each of the squads, terrain, and rules materials.
Given what GW charges for terrain, I'd be biasing a bit more toward the terrain being "worth" more, there's no way you'd get that much terrain for the cost of a squad when they come out separately.
True. I think it evens out with people wanting to get the squads ahead of time, building Krieg platoons and so on tho, raising their desirability. And all the rules stuff together is also in the 60€ range I think.
As GW loves cribbing ideas and pretending they invented it, I am shocked they haven't gone down the Battle Systems cardstock terrain route yet. It could give these kinds of big boxes a "fake" price reduction and make for really impressive table presence, which is about all they care for at this point.
Aeneades wrote: From Dosjetka over on Bolter and Chainsword. Dosjetka posted about the Krieg Vs Kommando box last year (including that it would have new Ork terrain), they heard this from the same person -
There will also be a Kill Team box with Sisters Neophytes (new kit and unit entry) vs T'au Pathfinders (upgrade kit) with existing Imperial city terrain.
Please!!! Sisters Novitiates/Neophytes were featured in Shadow War Amrageddon, I would be all too happy to see them revived as a concept (since I have ~60 Grishnak Warmaidens I'd like to find a use for alongside my official sisters minis).
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: As GW loves cribbing ideas and pretending they invented it, I am shocked they haven't gone down the Battle Systems cardstock terrain route yet. It could give these kinds of big boxes a "fake" price reduction and make for really impressive table presence, which is about all they care for at this point.
As a matter of fact GW has decades of history of cribbing Battle Systems' cardboard terrain idea!
I think the Kommandos are the better spec ops team of the two. Krieg would need those extra troopers more than the artillery support against the Kommandos.
Cardboard terrain is great for starter boxes.
Keeps price down which makes it more approachable for newbies, and better value for people that don't need their own terrain (either because they already have their own or because they play 'elsewhere').
It's a shame they don't, I can only assume because GW wants to create the illusion that you need their fancy terrain for a game, and that no alternatives exist.
chaos0xomega wrote:
Please!!! Sisters Novitiates/Neophytes were featured in Shadow War Amrageddon, I would be all too happy to see them revived as a concept (since I have ~60 Grishnak Warmaidens I'd like to find a use for alongside my official sisters minis).
Would prefer Kroot Mercs to pathfinders though.
I think you'll get your Kroot Mercs wish, it just might not be right away or in a big box for a warzone. There's a "Cadre Mercenaries" Kill Team that's all Kroot.
infinite_array wrote:
Yes, but the Tier list has been widely known about and accepted in the Blood Bowl community and is pretty much a feature rather than a bug.
I can't imagine that working for 40k players.
Are you for real? So many people already talk about armies as "tiers" right now.
Well IMHO plastic terrain kits are way superior to cardboard terrain. I didn't like cardboard terrain in 90's GW games, and I still don't like it, just looks cheap.
You could replace the miniatures with cardboard pieces as well in that case. Even cheaper, and very easy to transport! That'd be like Battletech & Car Wars all over again.. no thx
infinite_array wrote: Yes, but the Tier list has been widely known about and accepted in the Blood Bowl community and is pretty much a feature rather than a bug.
I can't imagine that working for 40k players.
Are you for real? So many people already talk about armies as "tiers" right now.
Sorry, I meant more as a codified aspect of the rules.
I'm not plugged into the 40k tournament scene, but I'm guessing that while 40k has faction 'tiers,' there's isn't a formalized method of handing out handicaps to players to help balance things out. And it's seen as something that constantly needs to be juggled and fixed between codex releases.
Whereas in Blood Bowl tournaments, Tier 1 teams get the least amount of help, Tier 2 get a middling amount, and Tier 3 usually get a heap of bonuses. The Tiers don't move.
lord_blackfang wrote: Terrain is pretty basic, mind you. Two copies each of two ruin-corner sprues, one oil pump sprue and the old ork rubble sprue from Speed Freeks/Mekboy Shop. Everything is monobuild so you're already starting off with 2 identical copies of the walls.
Kanluwen wrote: The Tau scenery kits are fortifications, not really scenery.
And up until the new KT Ork Terrain was just a Mek Shop and some junk piles, so why should what came before be any kind of limitation on what could come next?
lord_blackfang wrote: Terrain is pretty basic, mind you. Two copies each of two ruin-corner sprues, one oil pump sprue and the old ork rubble sprue from Speed Freeks/Mekboy Shop. Everything is monobuild so you're already starting off with 2 identical copies of the walls.
Two tiers of factions
....
And playing them against each other will be balance hell.
When the new edition of Blood Bowl came out last year, wasn't there a mention of the different teams being at different levels?
Each team literally has a “tier” stat on the roster. Thing is, the third tier is all the wacky gimmick teams like snotlings and ogres which are hilarious but absolutely need you to exploit every quirk and loophole you can find to be competitive because you’re inherently fighting a stack of randumb (literally - a 1 in 6 chance of standing around gawping at the scenery in several cases) from your own players. But because the tier stat is explicit now (it was real but implicit in previous editions), coaches treat them as difficulty levels, like in a video game. So veteran players will sometimes bust out a lovingly converted Halfling team for a nice challenge and new players can be pointed away from teams that will frustrate them into quitting.
An actual tier system in Kill Team would be a great idea, imho, especially if they want to emphasise the narrative play stuff.That said; please don’t take Ash’s performance in these videos as indicative - he’s a great guy and an absolute monster when it comes to speed-painting whole boxed sets in a day, but he has managed to lose to snotlings in blood bowl before… Also, they’re probably making rules mistakes because they’ve had the book in-hand for maybe a week by now.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: As GW loves cribbing ideas and pretending they invented it, I am shocked they haven't gone down the Battle Systems cardstock terrain route yet. It could give these kinds of big boxes a "fake" price reduction and make for really impressive table presence, which is about all they care for at this point.
As a matter of fact GW has decades of history of cribbing Battle Systems' cardboard terrain idea!
Interesting. These guys don't reveal their tac ops cards until they attempt them, unlike what the Guerrilla guys did. I actually prefer that, keeps the enemy guessing.
EDIT: They have mixed up the AP rules with 40K.. AP doesn't lower your save, it removes defence dice instead
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: As GW loves cribbing ideas and pretending they invented it, I am shocked they haven't gone down the Battle Systems cardstock terrain route yet. It could give these kinds of big boxes a "fake" price reduction and make for really impressive table presence, which is about all they care for at this point.
As a matter of fact GW has decades of history of cribbing Battle Systems' cardboard terrain idea!
So nice.
I would LOVE a return of this kind of product. It would open up home play for a ton of people who have to choose between army and terrain storage. I'd buy the gak out of this.
I would LOVE a return of this kind of product. It would open up home play for a ton of people who have to choose between army and terrain storage. I'd buy the gak out of this.
Obsolutely!
The card is obviously going to wear out after a while but it would come with detail one doesn't have to paint, save for the plastic bits. Ah, the good ol'days!
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: As GW loves cribbing ideas and pretending they invented it, I am shocked they haven't gone down the Battle Systems cardstock terrain route yet. It could give these kinds of big boxes a "fake" price reduction and make for really impressive table presence, which is about all they care for at this point.
As a matter of fact GW has decades of history of cribbing Battle Systems' cardboard terrain idea!
So nice.
I would LOVE a return of this kind of product. It would open up home play for a ton of people who have to choose between army and terrain storage. I'd buy the gak out of this.
Honestly, while they look a bit too sci-fi, the infinity terrain packs are fantastic value for money and more sturdy than just cardboard, and they're designed for skirmish gaming too, so I think they'd be the best cheap alternative to GWs plastic terrain?
Cronch wrote: Honestly, while they look a bit too sci-fi, the infinity terrain packs are fantastic value for money and more sturdy than just cardboard, and they're designed for skirmish gaming too, so I think they'd be the best cheap alternative to GWs plastic terrain?
There are two grades of the infinity terrain. The newer ones are thick cardboard, but the older one are much thinner card stock designed to wrap around the smaller cardboard boxes the minis come in. I think only the new stuff would be worth getting.
My local got a preview box in, hot damn this kit is gorgeous. The terrain is the best I've seen from GW, the level of detail and texture on those sprues is incredible. The Kommandos kit is really impressive, I counted 22 heads on the sprue so quite a bit of potential variation there, theres loads of gubbinz and variability there. But that Krieg kit. Oh. My. God. The minis are everything I hoped they would be, they are a very good size, really nice details, good proportions, you get 10 basic gasmask heads plus 1-2 more which looked about the same, and then 1 of the grenadier style faceplates, and you get enough lasguns on the sprues to do all sorts of different builds - including "at attention"/standing around poses with the rifle shouldered.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: As GW loves cribbing ideas and pretending they invented it, I am shocked they haven't gone down the Battle Systems cardstock terrain route yet. It could give these kinds of big boxes a "fake" price reduction and make for really impressive table presence, which is about all they care for at this point.
As a matter of fact GW has decades of history of cribbing Battle Systems' cardboard terrain idea!
Holy moley, first time seeing a couple of these, the Imperial Firebase and Ork Stronghold are great
Automatically Appended Next Post: @Sledgehammer - I would guess that there will be a follow-on compendium/annual type book coming at a later date which will include those lists, or they will be made available online or something.
They have to release them separately eventually, otherwise there would be no point in making both kill teams available in a standalone box format.
The distraction grot has flippers on his backpack. And the diver Kommando has an Orky harpoon gun on his backpack. Hahahaha!
Yeah, so, place I pre-ordered from was sold out inside of 7m.
Here's something curious that I did not expect. Check out the frame breakdown for the Kriegers:
Spoiler:
The first two pics are each one half of the sprue. The extra sprue is a separate sprue. So the regular Medic bits are part of the main sprue, but the medical bag, demo guy, radio guy, zealot guy, bionic arm guy - all on a completely separate unattached sprue. Orks, on the other hand, are on a full 3-wide sprue.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Yeah, so, place I pre-ordered from was sold out inside of 7m.
Given the COVID situation in Australia, it's probably not a good indication of anything. GW haven't released any stock for the official webstore or their official brick and mortar stores due to COVID lockdowns, and of the online stores most I checked haven't even put it up for preorder yet, a couple of the more deeply discounted ones are sold out but some of the more modest discounts are still listing it as in stock.
On this occasion, Australia is not going to be a good indicator to the rest of the world.
One thing that's maybe of note (or maybe not...) is the GW store has the "limited" symbol, but not the "made to order" symbol, so hopefully when it swaps from existing stock to made to order it'll be clear on the website and people won't be guessing whether their order will be fulfilled immediately or in several months.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: Given the COVID situation in Australia, it's probably not a good indication of anything. GW haven't released any stock for the official webstore or their official brick and mortar stores due to COVID lockdowns, and of the online stores most I checked haven't even put it up for preorder yet, a couple of the more deeply discounted ones are sold out but some of the more modest discounts are still listing it as in stock.
Stores are reporting that GW is shipping to trade partners. Their warehouse is open, but understaffed.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: Given the COVID situation in Australia, it's probably not a good indication of anything. GW haven't released any stock for the official webstore or their official brick and mortar stores due to COVID lockdowns, and of the online stores most I checked haven't even put it up for preorder yet, a couple of the more deeply discounted ones are sold out but some of the more modest discounts are still listing it as in stock.
Stores are reporting that GW is shipping to trade partners. Their warehouse is open, but understaffed.
Interesting, the local official GW store is saying they have no info on KT yet, so we'll see.
I ordered a copy online, so we'll see if and when it arrives, I'm not really trusting their stock levels this time around given the warehouse issues. I normally buy local to support the local game stores, but in this case the locals are closed.
The place I ordered from said they're going to speak to GW about getting more. Now we get to see if GW's "Everyone who wants one will get one!" promise really sticks.
Yeah, I was tempted to ask the shop I bought from how confident they were that they were actually going to be able to fulfil their orders, but in the end I just bought it and we'll see.
Most sites I saw weren't listing stock levels, one did and listed around 70 in stock.
Worst case I miss out, or maybe buy it at full GW price made to order, though I don't know how that'll work for us Aussies given it looks like Sydney could be locked down for a while yet. I don't imagine GW want to do one made-to-order run for the rest of the world, and another just for Oz/NZ.
Well the post is still operating - I've had a dozen things arrive from all around the place in recent months, including many folks in Melbourne sending me stuff - so we could be lucky there.
I haven't seen any stores showing stock levels, but I have seen at least one limiting it to 1 per customer.
Yeah, the post is fine (well, they suck, but they're still operating, lol). It's just a bit odd the way GW aren't selling through their own stores, but 3rd parties are still taking orders.
Gap Games was listing it as 76 in stock when I first checked, now listing 34 in stock.
The Combat Company says "Due to current restrictions, our stock of this product is limited. As a result, it will be available to order until stock runs out. Order now to avoid disappointment.", but their stock level also says "Secure Stock on Release", which makes me a bit concerned they are taking orders without having stock.
GoldenHorde wrote: Shot off a message to my local FLGS. Would like to support them. We'll see...
GW needs to end this FOMO BS
I'm sure you'll be able able to get a copy, there's still several online retailers that are taking orders, and GW themselves haven't even started taking orders. The problem is only really in Oz where COVID lockdowns have messed up GW's distribution out of Sydney, and even outside of Sydney many FLGSs are closed due to local lockdowns.
GoldenHorde wrote: Shot off a message to my local FLGS. Would like to support them. We'll see...
GW needs to end this FOMO BS
From my experience working with my (admittedly great) FGLS, pretty much anything I have wanted that I preordered they were able to get (barring the Crimson Court Underworlds kit because 3 people preordered before me and they were only allocated 3). They will put you on a preorder list there earlier than official preorders if you ask. I know I asked on reveal day when I was picking up some paints and they put me on it. I talked to them the other day and they said I was 2 on the list and GW said they could order as many as they want, but guaranteed at least 12.
My previous FGLS when I lived in a different state was also pretty great about this.
Now, there can be lots of variation between stores and that store’s sale rep, but generally I found it’s way easier to get limited release products through FGLS than online.
Edited: I do live in the States however, so I’m not sure that influences supply and demand compared to the rest of the world.
Miguelsan wrote: Got my copy an hour ago at the GW in Kobe. Japanese copies were gone, but English was still available. It was a pretty penny though.
There are no discounters in Japan?
Hahahahahahaha, what's that?
Most shops do not discount, they give you points to redeem for other things later on, but discounting the way it's done in the US it's a no no here.
M.
Honestly I kinda liked that, paying less for stuff is good. But I don’t like having to look around for discounts or have extra issue buying from some places that really cannot offer such high discounts.
[/spoiler]The first two pics are each one half of the sprue. The extra sprue is a separate sprue. So the regular Medic bits are part of the main sprue, but the medical bag, demo guy, radio guy, zealot guy, bionic arm guy - all on a completely separate unattached sprue. Orks, on the other hand, are on a full 3-wide sprue.
This has been pointed out on the day Troke&Co had that live stream unboxing. But of course as always it got shouted down by hordes of blind people who trust their preconceived notions over visual evidence.
I was under the impression that the teams would only be available separately at a later date, and the Octarius campaign book would never be available separately.
It is interesting about the Krieg sprue breakdown. All the Killteam specialisms are on a separate sprue - I wonder if the general release will be just the basic infantry parts. Or perhaps the sprue was designed first, then someone thought "why don't we design really cool specialists and launch Killteam?"
[/spoiler]The first two pics are each one half of the sprue. The extra sprue is a separate sprue. So the regular Medic bits are part of the main sprue, but the medical bag, demo guy, radio guy, zealot guy, bionic arm guy - all on a completely separate unattached sprue. Orks, on the other hand, are on a full 3-wide sprue.
This has been pointed out on the day Troke&Co had that live stream unboxing. But of course as always it got shouted down by hordes of blind people who trust their preconceived notions over visual evidence.
Hordes of what now? I don't recall any shouting down, lol, maybe I missed that part of the thread.
But yeah, the two big sprues contain everything you need to make a squad, including options for grenade launcher, sarge, melta, plasma and sniper, the other sprue is just "extras".
What GW do with this *shrugs*, maybe they'll throw in the extra sprue when the DKOK releases separately, or maybe it'll be a separate purchase, or maybe an extra kit for command units, or maybe it'll be limited release.
At this point we don't even know if GW will be releasing a full Krieg range or just this kit. In the FW thread it was pointed out that the FW Krieg have had their art refreshed and it seems like some stock is being replenished, so perhaps this kit is all we get and if you want a full Krieg army we'll still need to get it from FW.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Also looking to order another and swap one Ork kill team for a further set of DKoK meaning I can build a platoon.
Good luck with that, I'm predicting there'll be heaps of Orks on the market and no DKOK. Guard players will be wanting tons of DKOK, but I can't imagine Ork players wanting tons of Kommandos no matter how nice the models look.
[/spoiler]The first two pics are each one half of the sprue. The extra sprue is a separate sprue. So the regular Medic bits are part of the main sprue, but the medical bag, demo guy, radio guy, zealot guy, bionic arm guy - all on a completely separate unattached sprue. Orks, on the other hand, are on a full 3-wide sprue.
This has been pointed out on the day Troke&Co had that live stream unboxing. But of course as always it got shouted down by hordes of blind people who trust their preconceived notions over visual evidence.
Hordes of what now? I don't recall any shouting down, lol, maybe I missed that part of the thread.
But yeah, the two big sprues contain everything you need to make a squad, including options for grenade launcher, sarge, melta, plasma and sniper, the other sprue is just "extras".
What GW do with this *shrugs*, maybe they'll throw in the extra sprue when the DKOK releases separately, or maybe it'll be a separate purchase, or maybe an extra kit for command units, or maybe it'll be limited release.
At this point we don't even know if GW will be releasing a full Krieg range or just this kit. In the FW thread it was pointed out that the FW Krieg have had their art refreshed and it seems like some stock is being replenished, so perhaps this kit is all we get and if you want a full Krieg army we'll still need to get it from FW.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Also looking to order another and swap one Ork kill team for a further set of DKoK meaning I can build a platoon.
Good luck with that, I'm predicting there'll be heaps of Orks on the market and no DKOK. Guard players will be wanting tons of DKOK, but I can't imagine Ork players wanting tons of Kommandos no matter how nice the models look.
I've already arranged a swap locally with an Ork player who is also pre-ordering (providing they get their set)
1) If I miss the initial print run and have to wait 6 months, there's going to be at least 2 more sets come out in between, probably making the original rules out of date. If you're on the 6 months made to order list, you'll end up spending extra by having to buy a single rulebook to play anyway.
2) The old rulebook was £25 and had rules and model stats. Now to get the same thing, I have to spend £60 on books?
endlesswaltz123 wrote: I've already arranged a swap locally with an Ork player who is also pre-ordering (providing they get their set)
Nice, that's lucky, I reckon it's going to be a lot easier to find players wanting to trade away the Orks than the DKOK.
Well, if there are any Ork players in Melbourne who want the Kommandos/Terrain and not the DKOK or are trying to get rid of a set of DKOK, give me a yell, haha.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: I've already arranged a swap locally with an Ork player who is also pre-ordering (providing they get their set)
Nice, that's lucky, I reckon it's going to be a lot easier to find players wanting to trade away the Orks than the DKOK.
Well, if there are any Ork players in Melbourne who want the Kommandos/Terrain and not the DKOK or are trying to get rid of a set of DKOK, give me a yell, haha.
Pop it up on local facebook groups (like I did), makes it all a lot easier to find specific people. I had 5 in total willing to trade.
Orks in particular seem to have gotten the short end of the stick. Bit of a shame really.
Another strange thing is that Krieg get orders for free, and have a set of strategems.
Whereas regular Guard have to spend CP to use those same orders as their strategems.
Well, I'm out. This is not what I'm looking for in a skirmish game. A Space Marine kill team is so inflexible it can't even combine intercessors and assault intercessors. Just utter garbage.
I think I'm finally done with GW. They really do think 'The Hobby' is just buying their products, don't they? Any hint of customising or converting your models or making them "your dudes" must be ruthlessly suppressed in case somebody dares to use a third-party gun or head. You buy a box of intercessors, you build them exactly per the instructions, with no options or scope for individuality whatsoever, you paint them in one of the approved colour schemes based on official GW IP, then you get to play a really boring game with them. That's GW's vision for this hobby.
kirotheavenger wrote: Orks in particular seem to have gotten the short end of the stick. Bit of a shame really.
Another strange thing is that Krieg get orders for free, and have a set of strategems.
Whereas regular Guard have to spend CP to use those same orders as their strategems.
Was literally sitting down to start painting a Necron Kill team of several Flayed ones, warriors, a Deathmark and a few Immortals.
As the video went on I realized I was working on an invalid team in the new rules. Customization is the main draw for Kill Team. I have like 5 different factions I've converted over the last edition and now everything is invalid if I don't field full squads for each unit type. Why wouldn't I just play Combat Patrol in that case?
I guess I'm cancelling my preorder. What a huge miss from GW.
It is extremely obvious that the new edition of Kill Team is designed for bespoke teams, which are coming in boxes, as opposed to the more generic teams of the last edition. I won't buy the compendium at all, as it looks like a complete waste of money. As the official teams come out, I'll grab the ones I want, however. The bones of the new edition look much better than the lazy, boring game that was last edition Kill Team.
I wouldn't mind it being just an index, if it was priced like an index. £30 to get what would essentially be three pages of bland rules for my faction is a total no-go.
Secondly, we can reasonably expect that this index is all that some teams will have.
Will they ever release an Octarius style Scion team, now that Guard already have Krieg? Probably not, and certainly not any time soon.
Index 8th was okay because it was cheap and you knew you'd be getting a full codex within a year or two.
This is not cheap and you might well be stuck playing these rules forever.
I think it would have been much better if they had included generic specialisms, or even just let each team select a few battle honours out the gate, so you can at least get a bit of that individualistic feel.
Well Warcry have 6 exclusive teams at launch, this isn't specialist games studio so if they want to go for the unique team get unique rules road that could be done.
They also could re-release the Rogue Trader and Escalation BSF team as one of the launch team, 1 team on a single sprue for 60-75US$, instant profit.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Possibly there will be a veteran guardsman kit with the extra sprue, and a regular guardsman kit with 20 basic troops and no extra sprue?
That's what I am thinking will be the case. The rumored Pathfinders with upgrade frame for Tau makes sense in that context, as does the Krieg frame being separate while the Kommandos are all set up like a kit.
Arbitrator wrote: If Adam "I'm going to tell you why latest GW thing is awesome and you should buy it" says a GW product is bad, it must indeed be bad.
On the contrary, I just read the three articles from Goonhammer* and decided to unsubscribe from Tabletop Minions. Different strokes and all that.
* Compendium is bland compared to Octarius kill teams but a better place to start for new players. Simpler choices and lots of excess has been reined in.
Watched one of the short reviews, do not like what I’m hearing. I was planning on grabbing the rules and the compendium, as I don’t want any of the plastic from the box. Not any more. Once KTs for factions I care about drop, I’ll reconsider. Or if they do big boxes with terrain That matches my table.
One thing that wasn’t covered in the video I watched that might have been in another is if SM get any options, with the kits that do have them. For example, infiltrators have a medic and a coms trooper. Did they even bother to give us those options?
For those saying that factions will get better rules when they get bespoke boxes - yes and no.
We aren't going to be seeing mixed units for those, I can almost guarantee. They are just going to use it as an excuse to put out new kits for aging 40k units.
So expect a Striking Scorpion set, or a Rangers set and that's all you can take.
I would be shocked if we see a SM team with 3 intercessors, a couple reivers or infiltrators and a Heavy intercessor or anything like that. No actual "kill teams" of specialists, just minimum units squads of 40k units.
After watching the Glass Half Dead reviews, there are at least more options for some factions, but Space Marines are vanilla as hell. Luckily my only SM faction is Death Watch but I'm realizing I have about twice as many models as I need for some teams, and not enough for others. Also not elites or Commanders in a $50 compendium.
Hype is just all gone on for this release. Never fun to have to spend time looking over rules just to figure out how to even put together a valid force with units that were all valid options for the entirety of the previous edition.
Nevelon wrote: Watched one of the short reviews, do not like what I’m hearing. I was planning on grabbing the rules and the compendium, as I don’t want any of the plastic from the box. Not any more. Once KTs for factions I care about drop, I’ll reconsider. Or if they do big boxes with terrain That matches my table.
One thing that wasn’t covered in the video I watched that might have been in another is if SM get any options, with the kits that do have them. For example, infiltrators have a medic and a coms trooper. Did they even bother to give us those options?
Yes, Infiltrators can buy a medic as part of the equipment, for example.
Honestly it's strange choice of how to implement it imo
Yeah, not even slightly surprised by the compendium being bland (it’s the blac codex/ravening hordes style get-you-by book but for money) but as for the team structure; given the no-points list building system, having units with bare minimum flexibility is the only way they could realistically do it and I’m not confident later releases will actually improve that.
Oh they definitely won't, it seems fairly clear that Octarius will be the standard going forwards.
So there will be more options going forwards, in the sense of specialists. Although it seems balance isn't great and you're clearly expected to be taking the best options.
Slow, lumbering Plague Marines get as many troopers as the personal guard of the Emperor. Wtf.
The way the kill teams are structured it’s just gonna look like a small game of 40k as far as troop diversity goes. I’ll just play combat patrol games.
Glad I decided not to get this after all. Looks like a fething train wreck.
Nostromodamus wrote: Slow, lumbering Plague Marines get as many troopers as the personal guard of the Emperor. Wtf.
The way the kill teams are structured it’s just gonna look like a small game of 40k as far as troop diversity goes. I’ll just play combat patrol games.
Glad I decided not to get this after all. Looks like a fething train wreck.
I think some of the teams are better than others, demons could have been really interesting if they had some more equipment to change up a team.
GW seems to push away from mono god, and yet players seem to push towards it constantly.
Eldar I think would have gone a long way to having a aspect fire team. Rather than dire avengers, as it opens the whole team up and makes people think about things that will be added.
Also guardians are a miss :( feels like they want Eldar to have a group of each, why saying the game is easier to get into than ever.
Both I think are just disappointment, and the aspects feel kinda meh since they should be elite within the army.
JFC, you can mix different models from one army into one killteam? This is just insane. Whole point of this sort of skirmish game is that every model can be an individual.
I rally don't understand what the point of this sort of blandification is. It can't even be making GW any money, as this means that those rare individuals that actually decide to play this game will just need to buy one unit box instead of buying several to mix and match.
Just finished reading the Goonhammer Compendium review. I think the book isn't as rotten as first impression might lead to believe. I'd play a few games and see how it feels first.
Already made a fire team from my "Squad Lorenzo", now thinking I want to get into 2 Custodes + 5 Sos team next. Harlies sound like fun too, as do Kroots & Tau!
I can understand being upset if your old teams are incompatible though. The idea in Compendium seems to be to force everyone into fielding operatives which can be used as a legal unit in 40K as well. So in that sense KT still remains an "entry point game" for 40K..
Crimson wrote: JFC, you can mix different models from one army into one killteam? This is just insane. Whole point of this sort of skirmish game is that every model can be an individual.
I rally don't understand what the point of this sort of blandification is. It can't even be making GW any money, as this means that those rare individuals that actually decide to play this game will just need to buy one unit box instead of buying several to mix and match.
Depends a bit on the faction itself, but for a good portion of them it’s Pick two types. That’s what you get, upgrades may depend.
Daemons didn’t even get there special numbers for a bit of fun, too hard to balanced!
Response to just above I think the price on top is just to steep to have that attitude to it. They are really expensive books, and extras. On top of boxes of minis, eldar and demons only sorta has a one box builds. Out of luck if you want anything out of that.
With a lot of factions left to wait for longer for there update.
reading the goonhammer review of the rules (link here), i have to aggree with some of thier points in regards to list building. The designers clearly wanted to get away form the problem (perceived or real) that to make a "good" kill team, you needed to buy enough boxes of a faction to have a decent sized 40K army, all to get a dozen or so specific models that preformed well. This way, you can pretty much buy a box (or two) of the right troops and you have a viable kill team. brings the cost barrier to entry right down, which is always a plus.
That, and the extreme difficulty involved in balancing 20 odd factions which could cherrypick and created all sorts of weird skew lists (the example given was a tau list of 19 drones). by forcing things into the "fire teams" system, yes, they do remove flexibility form the player, but by doing they have a lot better control to try and balance the game because the players cant do something the designers didnt anticipate and blow balance out the water.
I continue to think that their pricing and compendium approach make it less friendly for veteran players who might—MIGHT—have bought a, say, $50 core book that let them upgrade to the new edition.
However, the limited list builds and pre-set boxes of opposing forces could potentially make a competitive format that I always wondered about.
That is, imagine an Octarius tournament at a venue. Players bring the contents of their box game and face off against other players who also brought their own identical box. No worrying about whether your list is optimized, did the other guy bring the latest points efficient unit, varying terrain choices that favor his army over yours. Just a clean evenly matched event because everyone brought the same terrain and two identical/nearly identical forces.
Play mission 1 against Joe. After that game, trade sides(of course use your models for the orks since Joe doesn’t want you touching his stuff) and replay the mission.
Compendium looks basically how I've been primed to expect. There was a dire worst-case scenario at one end of the spectrum, and a rosy optimistic end of the spectrum, and it's splitting the difference pretty cleanly.
Namely, we're not getting any of the pie-in-the-sky fanciful hopes that maybe the 1 Fire Team for Marines would actually offer some mixed models by being named silly things like Fire Team Fortis Configuration or be based on armor type rather than just "choose a boxed product and build your squad from that".
But at the same time, flipping through and looking at units' datacards now that I can look at stuff I'm familiar with rather than just whatever the Social Media team drip-fed us to get us excited, stuff looks like it's got thought and distinctiveness baked in in ways that make sense, even if they're not wildly specialized individuals.
Works for me. As a Sisters player, I think I get more out of this edition's interpretation of Sisters than I did out of KT18.
jmw23 wrote: It is extremely obvious that the new edition of Kill Team is designed for bespoke teams, which are coming in boxes, as opposed to the more generic teams of the last edition. I won't buy the compendium at all, as it looks like a complete waste of money. As the official teams come out, I'll grab the ones I want, however. The bones of the new edition look much better than the lazy, boring game that was last edition Kill Team.
This is the approach I am taking as well. This game looks exactly like what I want from a GW skirmish game, and luckily for me Kommandos and Veteran Krieg are probably 2/3 of the factions I would want most. I’m just going to pick up the new factions I want as they come out, because I’m not interested in the relatively boring and non-specialist teams in the compendium.
So the issue here is that it seems to be baby's first foray into 40k. You buy a single box, you play a game. "Good for new players!"
However, from past experience of.....idk, playing kill team since 5th edition, its always been the custom game mode that attracts the converters, the kitbashers, the story tellers. The people who individualize each model, give them a backstory, and really make them unique. Not only does this new ruleset make all kill teams practically identical, it lacks specialist rules as well. Its honestly a step backwards in every way. In the last kill team ruleset you can still have your 'all intercessor straight out of the box' kill team, but now you can't have your 'converted with love' kill team.
With things like Stargrave, Rogue Stars, and Grimdark Firefight (oh and everyone still owning old kill team), there is plenty of competition out there. I don't think GW is willfully ignorant of the current miniature climate (at least I hope not) I think they're just slapping together a simplistic ruleset to get people to buy 200 dollar box sets. Its all about the 200 dollar box sets these days. Every single codex release, faction update, new game mode, all of it has a 200 dollar box set they want to sell you.
And everyone I know hates reading weird hieroglyphs instead of numbers. Just tell me how many inches I can move and how many dice im rolling. I don't need circles and triangles and templates.
There’s nothing stopping you converting up more memorable models? Sure, there might be less need to convert weapons and that, but you can still make it your Kill Team.
I could argue it’s instead levelling the playing field thanks to each KT being Out of One Box.
There’s nothing stopping you converting up more memorable models? Sure, there might be less need to convert weapons and that, but you can still make it your Kill Team.
I could argue it’s instead levelling the playing field thanks to each KT being Out of One Box.
Personally, I don't mind the blandness because yeah, you can always make your team unique in terms of aesthetic and back story even if the rules are a bit limiting.
My gripe is more with the way they are managing it. It seems like all of the "compendium" should have been a cheap (if not free) pamphlet, not some 30 quid book that doesn't even include the rules needed to play.
Then, if like the DKOK and Kommandos, future teams get released as big versus boxed sets, it's going to be a very expensive game if you want to expand outside of your initial investment.
Also I have my doubts GW will balance the different teams well in this system, which could be one of its strengths.
There’s nothing stopping you converting up more memorable models? Sure, there might be less need to convert weapons and that, but you can still make it your Kill Team.
I could argue it’s instead levelling the playing field thanks to each KT being Out of One Box.
Kill team could always be out of one box. And homogenous kill teams are not worse mechanically in every way. I can beat my friend's mixed death watch with a unit of 10 wyches because its a fairly well balanced system. Homogenous kill teams are just a little boring is all. The issue is removal of mixed units which invalidates a lot of people's existing kill teams. There was never a barrier of entry because you can't buy as many different kits.
In fact, a game where you convince people to buy multiple kits they dont need for simple conversion bits should be a hot commodity for GW. Why wouldn't they want people to buy MORE models? lol
edit: And not even removal of mixed units, but just units in general. No grots? Not a SINGLE aspect warrior? Let me guess, they sell you another 40 dollar rule book down the line piece meal DLC for each army. The tried and true drip feed method that people are getting really really fed up with.
edit: and yes, I know they had expansion books for the last kill team, and I wasn't a fan of that either. But the base ruleset here is more restrictive than the base ruleset of the old core book.
So got my pre-order in. Was going to get the compendium, but sounds from all the reviews and speculation that likely going to be replaced with more specific rules for each faction later on. Worst case I just pick it up later.
Think just digesting the basic box is enough for me now anyway.
Crimson wrote: JFC, you can mix different models from one army into one killteam? This is just insane. Whole point of this sort of skirmish game is that every model can be an individual.
I rally don't understand what the point of this sort of blandification is. It can't even be making GW any money, as this means that those rare individuals that actually decide to play this game will just need to buy one unit box instead of buying several to mix and match.
Depends a bit on the faction itself, but for a good portion of them it’s Pick two types. That’s what you get, upgrades may depend.
Daemons didn’t even get there special numbers for a bit of fun, too hard to balanced!
Response to just above I think the price on top is just to steep to have that attitude to it. They are really expensive books, and extras. On top of boxes of minis, eldar and demons only sorta has a one box builds. Out of luck if you want anything out of that.
With a lot of factions left to wait for longer for there update.
Gw is in sort of quanarum as long as kt models are from 40k boxes. Either no options or you pay 150-250e for kill team. Neither pleases players.
Imagine having to buy firedragon box for 1 model and 4 waste.
I've a bit of a mixed feeling about this. The compendium sucks, there is no other way to go about this.
But for the Killteam composition I'm still not sure how to think about. For one thing I'm excited not needing to essentially build a 500pt army to play. As the necron example I saw, it would mean buying 1 warriors box, 1 immortals box and 1 flayed ones box. And I'm looking at something like 150€ just to play a Kill Team I might like but what if I don't collect Necrons? Then I have all these half build sprues flying around which no one needs because let's be honest, reselling them is pointlesa because who would pay a fair price for 1 Immortal, 2 flayed ones and 16 Warriors.
This is the reason I never started a Kill Team in the past.
But I also understand the point of view of wanting a mixed team. So I'm really not sure if it's a good thing or not.
That. Gw could solve that issue by releasing box of mixed teams(4 warriors, 2 immortal, 2 flayed one for example) but apart from being more expensive for gw but then players would like to use it for 40k...weird mixed unit.
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kirotheavenger wrote: Ideally mixed teams would be available but the game would be balanced such as to make it unnecessary.
Won't it be funny when they do release a mixed box (same way there's a grot and squig in the Kommando box) and you can do a mixed team if you use that specific subfaction, but still not if you use the generic list.
RoterBaronH wrote: I've a bit of a mixed feeling about this. The compendium sucks, there is no other way to go about this.
But for the Killteam composition I'm still not sure how to think about. For one thing I'm excited not needing to essentially build a 500pt army to play. As the necron example I saw, it would mean buying 1 warriors box, 1 immortals box and 1 flayed ones box. And I'm looking at something like 150€ just to play a Kill Team I might like but what if I don't collect Necrons? Then I have all these half build sprues flying around which no one needs because let's be honest, reselling them is pointlesa because who would pay a fair price for 1 Immortal, 2 flayed ones and 16 Warriors.
This is the reason I never started a Kill Team in the past.
But I also understand the point of view of wanting a mixed team. So I'm really not sure if it's a good thing or not.
This is a good point. My hope is that given they've promised a lot of support this time around that they end up investing time to try and serve these different play profiles.
I have a big collection and my ideal would be to assemble cross-faction kill teams, a la the Wrath & Glory cover art.
That said, one of their obvious goals is enticing new players with a "faction in a box" offering.
I think I'll wait for the individual boxes to come out and pick up both teams. I like the models but I don't care for all the other assorted guff that comes with it.
GW could make things a great deal better by allowing kill teams to have specialists even if *gasp* they don't have pieces for that in the box. But god forbid players use models in any manner other than -exactly- as they appear on the assembly instructions, or worse yet; kitbash & convert!
lord_blackfang wrote: Won't it be funny when they do release a mixed box (same way there's a grot and squig in the Kommando box) and you can do a mixed team if you use that specific subfaction, but still not if you use the generic list.
I mean, I fully expect that?
Also, people complaining about no grots haven't looked closely -- you can sub 1 boy out for 2 grots.
queen_annes_revenge wrote: I think I'll wait for the individual boxes to come out and pick up both teams. I like the models but I don't care for all the other assorted guff that comes with it.
Yeah, same. Indomitus worked for me because it came with a ton of models, all the terrain and trinkets of Kill Team aren't worth the same price of admission.
I wonder if there will be any buyer burnout from releasing these boxes every 3 months.
herjan1987 wrote: I might buyed into this edition of Kill Team, if they allowed more mixing and matching. Oh well GW cant confiscate my Kill Team 2019 books.
Its a pity thought it would have been fun to make a Kill team with Cadian sniper, DKoK sergeant and a Catachan melee specialist.
What do you mean? Do the rules say you have to have certain paint schemes?
privateer4hire wrote: I continue to think that their pricing and compendium approach make it less friendly for veteran players who might—MIGHT—have bought a, say, $50 core book that let them upgrade to the new edition.
However, the limited list builds and pre-set boxes of opposing forces could potentially make a competitive format that I always wondered about.
That is, imagine an Octarius tournament at a venue. Players bring the contents of their box game and face off against other players who also brought their own identical box. No worrying about whether your list is optimized, did the other guy bring the latest points efficient unit, varying terrain choices that favor his army over yours. Just a clean evenly matched event because everyone brought the same terrain and two identical/nearly identical forces.
Play mission 1 against Joe. After that game, trade sides(of course use your models for the orks since Joe doesn’t want you touching his stuff) and replay the mission.
That's a fair point and this was exactly how Space Hulk tournaments worked back in the day. Everybody knew the missions and the forces involved, and the game actually encouraged playing the same missions twice, switching sides.
It was a hard pill to swallow at first, to lose the mix & match portion of the KillTeams, but maybe it'll turn out OK in the end.
herjan1987 wrote: I might buyed into this edition of Kill Team, if they allowed more mixing and matching. Oh well GW cant confiscate my Kill Team 2019 books.
Its a pity thought it would have been fun to make a Kill team with Cadian sniper, DKoK sergeant and a Catachan melee specialist.
What do you mean? Do the rules say you have to have certain paint schemes?
Its a pity thought it would have been fun to make a Kill team with Cadian sniper, DKoK sergeant and a Catachan melee specialist.
But you can do that though...nothing stops this.
Well on Goonhammer it says, that either Hardened Vetarans or Imperial Guardsman ( by the way kudos for not naming them Astra Militarum ). Sure I take DKoK leader as a regular Guardsman sergeant, but its just not that feel. Although I have some quarrels with AoS and its offsprings, I do like the idea that they did with Warcry ( what Uncle Atom showed us in the previous video ) recruit system.
privateer4hire wrote: I continue to think that their pricing and compendium approach make it less friendly for veteran players who might—MIGHT—have bought a, say, $50 core book that let them upgrade to the new edition.
However, the limited list builds and pre-set boxes of opposing forces could potentially make a competitive format that I always wondered about.
That is, imagine an Octarius tournament at a venue. Players bring the contents of their box game and face off against other players who also brought their own identical box. No worrying about whether your list is optimized, did the other guy bring the latest points efficient unit, varying terrain choices that favor his army over yours. Just a clean evenly matched event because everyone brought the same terrain and two identical/nearly identical forces.
Play mission 1 against Joe. After that game, trade sides(of course use your models for the orks since Joe doesn’t want you touching his stuff) and replay the mission.
That's a fair point and this was exactly how Space Hulk tournaments worked back in the day. Everybody knew the missions and the forces involved, and the game actually encouraged playing the same missions twice, switching sides.
It was a hard pill to swallow at first, to lose the mix & match portion of the KillTeams, but maybe it'll turn out OK in the end.
Oh, I’m not deluding myself enough to believe the community would ever do anything like that again (swapping sides and replaying as an official format). However, this release format does make it more convenient if someone lost their mind and actually tried it.
Does anybody know if the new Kill Team version somehow supports 3-4 player games like the old Kill Team did? I played Kill Team mostly very casually with some friends that otherwise didn't play 40k. Lots of fun, but some of the game mechanics were rather wonky (such as smite being the only psychic power). This edition actually looks a lot better on that front and I'd be interested to upgrade if it is at least somewhat multiplayer compatible.
There’s nothing stopping you converting up more memorable models? Sure, there might be less need to convert weapons and that, but you can still make it your Kill Team.
I could argue it’s instead levelling the playing field thanks to each KT being Out of One Box.
Personally, I don't mind the blandness because yeah, you can always make your team unique in terms of aesthetic and back story even if the rules are a bit limiting.
My gripe is more with the way they are managing it. It seems like all of the "compendium" should have been a cheap (if not free) pamphlet, not some 30 quid book that doesn't even include the rules needed to play.
Then, if like the DKOK and Kommandos, future teams get released as big versus boxed sets, it's going to be a very expensive game if you want to expand outside of your initial investment.
Also I have my doubts GW will balance the different teams well in this system, which could be one of its strengths.
I was going to get the box with a friend, but this is why we decided not to. The old kill team was easy to get into. All you needed was one book between the two players. Now, even the big box is not enough to get you started. It's a bigger investmentent, with a lot of FOMO boxes coming every 3 months. I don't want to get on that train, although I understand why others might.
GaroRobe wrote: I don't get the need for a queue if there's made to order.
(Except that MTO takes a long time to make, I guess?)
Stupid GW, I just wanna browse the site and look at the models. I don't want to buy anything.
the queue is just to manage site traffic, as (presumably) thousands of people try and buy the product all at the same time (hoping to get the ready stock of boxes not the made to order ones), and its have a queue system, or the site overloads and falls over requiring significant effort to get back up again.
i share your pain, i was trying to work out the details of a potential conversion i was looking at doing and couldnt get access to the site to look at the sprues for half an hour.
kirotheavenger wrote: The queue is because their site can't handle the number of people all logging on at once.
What? You mean GW paid 4 million to Kirby's wife (or something like that) and the web site can't handle it? I guess 4 million doesn't get you much these days. lol
warboss wrote: Is there a list of which units are available as options for killteams in the compendium?
Goonhammer mentions them as they work though the factions on their 3 part review of the compendium. Link to the first part, which then links on to parts 2 and 3
short answer is "factions troop choices" as a default, with maybe some of the elite options but mostly not and nothing that strays too far form that that "Line infantry, but better" line. only obvious non troops i picked up on were Repentia and Arco-Flagellants for sisters, the Sciarians for the admech, Reivers for the marines (and scouts, but c'mon, they are troops just moved for balance purposes), Sisters of Silence for the custodes, flayed ones and Deathmarks for Necrons, and pathfinders and stealth suits for the tau. everything else is, as far i can tell, a troops choice for that faction.
Pretty cool.I hear mixed opinions on their not-40k though, and I haven't really heard much about their other games.
Works just as well as real 40k and if the community gives feedback to nerf/buff stuff that happens pretty regularly and pretty quickly. No benefit to the creator to sell models or to foster obvious imbalance in hopes of a new edition.
The only drawbacks are the lists are centered only on 40k and mantic warpath stuff only so far. That and the fact that it’s not got the GW label so getting people to try it may be a challenge.
warboss wrote: Is there a list of which units are available as options for killteams in the compendium?
Goonhammer mentions them as they work though the factions on their 3 part review of the compendium. Link to the first part, which then links on to parts 2 and 3
short answer is "factions troop choices" as a default, with maybe some of the elite options but mostly not and nothing that strays too far form that that "Line infantry, but better" line. only obvious non troops i picked up on were Repentia and Arco-Flagellants for sisters, the Sciarians for the admech, Reivers for the marines (and scouts, but c'mon, they are troops just moved for balance purposes), Sisters of Silence for the custodes, flayed ones and Deathmarks for Necrons, and pathfinders and stealth suits for the tau. everything else is, as far i can tell, a troops choice for that faction.
Thanks! I didn't realize the review mentioned earlier in the thread was so comprehensive.
I like this rule set. Clear, easy to build and there’s still plenty of customisation to fiddle with (although some factions have it better than other) - for example guard:
Guardsmen come in groups of 7 and scions in 5s. You have a max 20 dudes in your roster and you take 2 of your groups from that roster into each fight. So for example I’m planning a roster of 2x 7 guardsmen and 1x5 scions. Within a squad of guardsmen I can customise the following:
If they have a leader
The leaders equipment
If they have a comms guy
Which special weapons they have (up to 2 and no duplicates)
Then before the battle I can add upgrade like a medic bag or frag grenades which all provide opportunities for modelling “your guys”. Plenty of depth and it severely limits the amount of cheese available like stacking 8 plasma guns in an army
GaroRobe wrote: I don't get the need for a queue if there's made to order.
(Except that MTO takes a long time to make, I guess?)
Stupid GW, I just wanna browse the site and look at the models. I don't want to buy anything.
If they don't, scalpers will just buy all boxes that had been already made and leave people choice of waiting 3+ months or getting extremely overpriced kits now, kinda completely defeating MTO point.
And yeah, I get that last part, I wanted to look up stuff too and queue is annoying but you can always use google cache.
Arbitrator wrote: If Adam "I'm going to tell you why latest GW thing is awesome and you should buy it" says a GW product is bad, it must indeed be bad.
Nice strawman but the whole selling point of TM is that he is honest. Please show ONE video he made that tries to sell you on GW stuff instead of presenting full range of available options, be it from other companies or homemade. Hell, is three most popular videos are about stuff replacing GW offerings completely!
And funnily enough, the only thing he has been pushing recently is the Reign in Hell thing. Guess who made it?
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Woah damn, Adam saying a GW product, that he got for free, is bad? It must be goddamn abysmal
And this is not even a strawman, it's full on dishonest sockpuppet He never ONCE pushed anything he got from GW, and pretty much always made a criticism or complain of some sort. But I guess to mass bashing account saying past boxes were OK and he doesn't have much to complain about is a height of shilling, eh?
I feel that Kill Team 2.0 is going to go the way that Titanicus did early on.
At the start: few options, but you still need a couple of books and lots of things to get you rolling, so nobody bought it and played it.
Then, more options start coming out and things were looking better. People started picking it up.
Now, lots of options and more support coming (albeit slowly), which makes it a real hit of a game, supported by a box set that's a fantastic split, or complete army in one set.
The trouble with Kill Team is that it's meant to be a quick skirmish game, so the price point of 100USD to just get the books is HARSH, especially if we're expecting more books to fill in missing or lacking options.
I'll predict that they'll do a 'Forces of the Imperium/Chaos/Xenos' books in the future that will have expanded rules, options, and other things as more stuff comes out, likely on top of the various campaign books and boxes that they have planned. In the end, it's going to be another great way for GW to sell you more paper than plastic. :/
It sounds like the issue with the Compendium is that it's only reasonably priced if you're buying one copy for a group of players.
I'll just have to make sure to tell the people I'm planning on playing with that I'll be razor-blading my copy apart so there's no problem sharing the sections of the book around.
It's been interesting to watch the impact of the MTO on sales today.
It doesn't seem GW ever had to flip over to Made to Order "SKU." All the pre-orders on the GW site still seem to be dispatching from August 28.
DiscountGames has 20+ units available with a 15% discount. They sold out of Hexfire and Beast Snagge boxes in minutes.
It could be that they just printed a truly huge amount. My FLGS was able to order 5 copies of the Beast Snagga box, but got an allocation of 50 for KT:O. 10X production can go a long way to satisfying demand.
It could also be that the scalpers had a truly distorting effect on the market, effectively monopolizing the available stock. With the threat of elastic supply, they knew their model was at risk, they ceded the field, and a more sustainable equilibrium was found.
It could also be that the fairly negative reviews have turned folks off. Or that the perceived value is much lower than with the dual faction boxes. The KT:O launch box is a savings over buying the elements individually, but the books and terrain to some degree are widely seen as overpriced.
Anyway, interesting to see in light of some other recent box sets!
^^ Yup. I had a much smoother ordering process than with Sisters or Beast Snagga's. I really do hope that this approach isn't limited to New game editions and is rolled out for all boxes.
But, I also know it won't be.
(One would think they would get a gauge of numbers from a made to order approach for the future...)
H.B.M.C. wrote: The place I ordered from - that sold out in 7 minutes - has spoken to GW and received a larger allocation of boxes.
Seems GW are willing to give as many as needed.
But we are the special case where GW isn't selling through their own stores or their online store, so 3rd parties are the only places we can get it at the moment.
I got it through an online store for 20% discount, and they took pretty much all day yesterday before they stopped taking orders. Normally I'd buy from a local store that normally only has 10 to 15% discount, or another store that doesn't have any discount, but they're closed due to lockdown, so it's meant I've actually saved money this time around.
I would suggest stores wouldn't have sold out so quickly if the GW store had of been open, as it's pushed all that traffic to the 3rd party stores, nor would GW be making more stock available to them if it were also selling like hotcakes on the official store.
If GW are planning to ride out the NSW lockdown before they start selling through their online store, it's possible that they might not open before the MTO stuff goes through, as it looks like the NSW lockdown is going to last a while, so maybe they're thinking they can restock if they need.
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Rinkydink wrote: ^^ Yup. I had a much smoother ordering process than with Sisters or Beast Snagga's. I really do hope that this approach isn't limited to New game editions and is rolled out for all boxes.
But, I also know it won't be.
(One would think they would get a gauge of numbers from a made to order approach for the future...)
I have a feeling after the initial preview stream, they were expecting massive numbers of sales as the community seemed really on board, and when they started previewing the game mechanics and reviews started coming in, people might have gone cold on it.
Even now I've ordered it but am thinking maybe I shouldn't have, lol.
Does anyone else think that GW anticipated Compendium to receive mixed reviews and therefore issued review lockdown until the 14th?
I don't about the rules but Compendium certainly kills the hobby aspect of building Kill Teams. Personally I am unaffected because I never intended to buy it anyway. I am happy with Octarius its metric ton of plastic. By the time I get them built and painted, the next set should be out already...
I'd wager most folks will just use screenshots of their datasheets or battlescribe instead of buying the Compendium. Even if coming up with the new stats was a laborous endeavour for GW, they should have went the "Munitorum Field Manual 2021 Mk I" route here and offered it as a free download.
Guerrilla is playing the Compendium fire teams all through next week, so we'll be able to see how they actually play on the tabletop in comparison to the Spec Ops teams.
I can, as ever, recommend F28: War Always Changes, as doing skirmish, battle, and narrative wargaming in the universe of another leading brand, significantly better than, for example, Kill Team, Warhammer 40K, and Inquisitor, do those things. It's our go-to SF game in this house even after Stargrave came out.
Crimson wrote: JFC, you can mix different models from one army into one killteam? This is just insane. Whole point of this sort of skirmish game is that every model can be an individual.
KT has gone back and forth on allowing this over the years, the first editoon of KT (in the 4th ed 40k rulebook) allowed you to mix and match freely ( I ran a KT made up of 1 of each elsar aspect warrior, for example). The next iteration in 2013 or 2016 (forget when ch)disallowed that and basically required you to bring a KR made up of a single codex unit entry. Then the efition after that allowed you to mix from a limited list of units, etc. Now we are at the point where we basically have bespoke kill team army lists.
Ian Sturrock wrote: I can, as ever, recommend F28: War Always Changes, as doing skirmish, battle, and narrative wargaming in the universe of another leading brand, significantly better than, for example, Kill Team, Warhammer 40K, and Inquisitor, do those things. It's our go-to SF game in this house even after Stargrave came out.
tauist wrote: Oh snap. The feeling when you've spent a wad of cash and have to wait 13 days to see what it bought you...
Preorders suck hehehe
I feel your pain, at least you got the metal gizmo, right?
I'm going to arrange a swap of Orks for more Krieg on the interim.
M.
Yeah, I got the metal gauge but there's no pair for it, nor any metallic pentagon gauge.. Would actually have paid extra money for all three. Oh well, maybe I should try to do some hobbying in the meantime. It's just that every time I buy something I've waited a while for, I can't think of anything else until the product in question ships. First World problems, no doubt!
You are in the US, if there is a machining shop nearby you could go and order one with just a pentagon on the right place. GW cannot copyright what's basically a geometrical shape.
You'll pay through the nose but it's not like high prices scare us at this stage, right?
Do we know if the Kill Team: Octariusstarter set will be out for a few years or after the made towers have been done it will be retired and just the individual parts will be available?
it's a limited box while supplies last only. get it while you can, once the maid to order. is gone and all the inventory and shop sells out it won't be coming back.
Ragweek wrote: Do we know if the Kill Team: Octariusstarter set will be out for a few years or after the made towers have been done it will be retired and just the individual parts will be available?
Sorry if this has been already answered.
Sadly, its just a launch set. Get your order in now if you really want it.
chaos0xomega wrote: it's a limited box while supplies last only. get it while you can, once the maid to order. is gone and all the inventory and shop sells out it won't be coming back.
Here gw finally went to mto for last 5.5h. Took surprisingly long. Wonder how uch it was large stock, mto reducing scalpers and bad reviews driving buyers away.
Miguelsan wrote: You are in the US, if there is a machining shop nearby you could go and order one with just a pentagon on the right place. GW cannot copyright what's basically a geometrical shape.
You'll pay through the nose but it's not like high prices scare us at this stage, right?
Why would you even bother? Pick up a piece of wood and cut it.
Go to a Lowes or Home Depot if you want it fancy, or give it to a teenager to take into the school's shop class.
Cut it, sand it, doodle or carve the shapes, stain it, call it a short afternoon.
with a new KT product every quarter it does not need to come back
and that it is a bad game but only worth the (for now) exclusive minis is nothing new, you could this from the preview articles alone
and not all reviews are bad, all but 1 that got the box for free was very positive on how cool it is to have a game different from 40k and how awesome the minis are
Miguelsan wrote: You are in the US, if there is a machining shop nearby you could go and order one with just a pentagon on the right place. GW cannot copyright what's basically a geometrical shape.
You'll pay through the nose but it's not like high prices scare us at this stage, right?
Why would you even bother? Pick up a piece of wood and cut it.
Go to a Lowes or Home Depot if you want it fancy, or give it to a teenager to take into the school's shop class.
Cut it, sand it, doodle or carve the shapes, stain it, call it a short afternoon.
Miguelsan wrote: You are in the US, if there is a machining shop nearby you could go and order one with just a pentagon on the right place. GW cannot copyright what's basically a geometrical shape.
You'll pay through the nose but it's not like high prices scare us at this stage, right?
Why would you even bother? Pick up a piece of wood and cut it.
Go to a Lowes or Home Depot if you want it fancy, or give it to a teenager to take into the school's shop class.
Cut it, sand it, doodle or carve the shapes, stain it, call it a short afternoon.
The point is to get a metal one.
M.
I'm not sure why anyone would want a metal one anyway, it'll be more likely to scratch up your models when you inevitably bump or drop it on them. It makes a lot more sense having it plastic.
Miguelsan wrote: You are in the US, if there is a machining shop nearby you could go and order one with just a pentagon on the right place. GW cannot copyright what's basically a geometrical shape.
You'll pay through the nose but it's not like high prices scare us at this stage, right?
Why would you even bother? Pick up a piece of wood and cut it.
Go to a Lowes or Home Depot if you want it fancy, or give it to a teenager to take into the school's shop class.
Cut it, sand it, doodle or carve the shapes, stain it, call it a short afternoon.
The point is to get a metal one.
M.
I'm not sure why anyone would want a metal one anyway, it'll be more likely to scratch up your models when you inevitably bump or drop it on them. It makes a lot more sense having it plastic.
I would have wanted the entire gauge set as metal, since GW bothered to make one of the gauges as a metallic one in the first place. What use do I have for an incomplete set of metal gauges? Take it to work and place it next to the obligatory family pic to show the world what a weirdo I am?
Anyways, back to the rules themselves. I found screenshots of most of the core book pages, as well as the datasheets & ops etc for the two Spec Ops teams in Octarius, and have been reading through them just now.
The Krieg have a lot of interesting combos and synergy benefits you can pull off with them.. like the Confidant Veteran being able to make any friendly model within 6" essentially GA2 with him, or the Vet Zealot giving every friendly within 3" a "Lethal 5+" to all their shooting & fighting attacks. Also interesting is the "Combined Fire" ploy for 1 CP, which gives shooting attack rerolls against a target which was already shot at in that turning point, this ploy would be nasty with those 2GA Vet Troopers, for example. I have to say, the Compendium forces are very modest in comparison, although they will also be much more straightforward to play with.
DKoK seems like a faction for expert players, they aren't very robust, and without skill you'll probably end up taking a beating most of the time. The Kommandos seem much easier to start playing with, there are many strong models there which are effective even without planning for max synergy combos.
I think I really like the overall game mechanics of KT2. Already contemplating how one could play something like Space Hulk with the KT2 rules, obvsly we'd need Terminator datasheets first but yeh
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: But that removes the whole "One box is all ya need" aspect, now don't it.
That's not even a thing tho. The... positive people... have argued that no mixing allowed is Good Thing(TM) because one box is all you need... but a lot of factions, SM being the biggest exception, can mix sets and lots even have a rule saying you can't have both fire teams be from a particular box.
I wasn't really argueing for or against the new list building thing. Just stating that the DKoK probably want the +4 guys in terms of power level especially vs the kommando kill team.
Aside from that, one box is all you need to play in this case, 1 box being all you need for a "top tier" list has never been a thing in warhammer afaik.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: But that removes the whole "One box is all ya need" aspect, now don't it.
That's not even a thing tho. The... positive people... have argued that no mixing allowed is Good Thing(TM) because one box is all you need... but a lot of factions, SM being the biggest exception, can mix sets and lots even have a rule saying you can't have both fire teams be from a particular box.
No mixing is definitely an opinion based thing. I personally like it, but I understand the arguments against it. Kind of funny how you make it sound like "positive people" is a bad thing. Does "liking a change" = "cringe" these days?
And most factions still can play the game out of one box. Space Marines fit this. One box of assault intercessors or reivers will get you rolling.
Having looked through most factions, the one that stands out as NOT following that unwritten 'ideal' (since it's not really a 'rule') is the Necron. You need 2 Fire Teams and cannot have more than one Warrior Fire Team, and the rest of the options are only 5-man boxes, making 4-man Fire Teams. So, you need at least 2 boxes to make a proper Necron Kill Team.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: But that removes the whole "One box is all ya need" aspect, now don't it.
That's not even a thing tho. The... positive people... have argued that no mixing allowed is Good Thing(TM) because one box is all you need... but a lot of factions, SM being the biggest exception, can mix sets and lots even have a rule saying you can't have both fire teams be from a particular box.
No mixing is definitely an opinion based thing. I personally like it, but I understand the arguments against it. Kind of funny how you make it sound like "positive people" is a bad thing. Does "liking a change" = "cringe" these days?
And most factions still can play the game out of one box. Space Marines fit this. One box of assault intercessors or reivers will get you rolling.
Having looked through most factions, the one that stands out as NOT following that unwritten 'ideal' (since it's not really a 'rule') is the Necron. You need 2 Fire Teams and cannot have more than one Warrior Fire Team, and the rest of the options are only 5-man boxes, making 4-man Fire Teams. So, you need at least 2 boxes to make a proper Necron Kill Team.
Demons are also 2 short from an single box.
I think the big issue is that we also don’t know what the future teams are, weather they are expanded from the compendium or just new teams that you have to hope line up with what you want to play.
The no mixing thing doesn't really bother me, I think people over rate having huge lists of options.
That said, I'm not at all happy about what GW has done with the compendium, so you could hardly call me a "positive people". It feels like it should have been a white dwarf article rather than a $50 book. When GW try to bleed customers for all they're worth, it's usually not to the benefit of the game.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: The no mixing thing doesn't really bother me, I think people over rate having huge lists of options.
That said, I'm not at all happy about what GW has done with the compendium, so you could hardly call me a "positive people". It feels like it should have been a white dwarf article rather than a $50 book. When GW try to bleed customers for all they're worth, it's usually not to the benefit of the game.
I think it depends a lot on the specifics, some feel off. Other stuff feels ok, our demons players are all running effectively the same lists.
Stuff like Eldar going to be a pain as well.
If it was a free book I do agree then it would be better, but at this point it’s going to be two years to get updates for factions that already feel less fresh than when they had nothing :0
Been playing the old KT, and in just 3 games my friend/opponent discovered the whole Comms, plus Auspex on a Missile Launcher with Sniper trick for the ol 2+ reroll one auto win, and just like in 2019 I'm bored with it.
Maybe there will be a little bit more to it with these restrictions.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: The no mixing thing doesn't really bother me, I think people over rate having huge lists of options.
That said, I'm not at all happy about what GW has done with the compendium, so you could hardly call me a "positive people". It feels like it should have been a white dwarf article rather than a $50 book. When GW try to bleed customers for all they're worth, it's usually not to the benefit of the game.
I think it depends a lot on the specifics, some feel off. Other stuff feels ok, our demons players are all running effectively the same lists.
Stuff like Eldar going to be a pain as well.
If it was a free book I do agree then it would be better, but at this point it’s going to be two years to get updates for factions that already feel less fresh than when they had nothing :0
Yeah, and I think when GW drip feeds releases like this it's going to get very expensive for anyone who wants to run more than 1 or 2 kill teams (which I assume is most people who are genuinely interested in the game).
Like, to play DKOK, you need the Octarius book, which means you need to buy a $200 boxed set full of Orks and terrain you probably don't want. Then on top of that you'll probably want to buy another box of DKOK when they come out as 1 squad doesn't give you all options.
Then when Tyranids come out, are you also going to have to buy some versus box for another $200 to get the book that they'll be included in? Even if you don't, even if they release the book separately, that's going to be another $50 book and whatever accessories you need.
Then maybe DKOK get an update in another campaign book, so you'll spend another $50 on that (this is basically what they did with Aeronautica Imperialis, where to play a full Imperial squadron you need to buy 2 separate campaign books).
It's getting very expensive to play a small scale skirmish game with only a couple of teams, which I think will put people off even more than the silly triangle circle square pentagon stuff.
tauist wrote: Glass Half Dead had a stream with a KT2 playtester AMA last night
Spoiler:
Any interesting points to come out of it? 3 hours is a bit more time than I have to dedicate, lol.
It’s a listen why doing other things I think, good background info and worth it as a interest peace as a whole. But nothing jumped out for me as a must know.
Very restricted about what can be said sadly is my thoughts on it.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: The no mixing thing doesn't really bother me, I think people over rate having huge lists of options.
That said, I'm not at all happy about what GW has done with the compendium, so you could hardly call me a "positive people". It feels like it should have been a white dwarf article rather than a $50 book. When GW try to bleed customers for all they're worth, it's usually not to the benefit of the game.
I think it depends a lot on the specifics, some feel off. Other stuff feels ok, our demons players are all running effectively the same lists.
Stuff like Eldar going to be a pain as well.
If it was a free book I do agree then it would be better, but at this point it’s going to be two years to get updates for factions that already feel less fresh than when they had nothing :0
Yeah, and I think when GW drip feeds releases like this it's going to get very expensive for anyone who wants to run more than 1 or 2 kill teams (which I assume is most people who are genuinely interested in the game).
Like, to play DKOK, you need the Octarius book, which means you need to buy a $200 boxed set full of Orks and terrain you probably don't want. Then on top of that you'll probably want to buy another box of DKOK when they come out as 1 squad doesn't give you all options.
Then when Tyranids come out, are you also going to have to buy some versus box for another $200 to get the book that they'll be included in? Even if you don't, even if they release the book separately, that's going to be another $50 book and whatever accessories you need.
Then maybe DKOK get an update in another campaign book, so you'll spend another $50 on that (this is basically what they did with Aeronautica Imperialis, where to play a full Imperial squadron you need to buy 2 separate campaign books).
It's getting very expensive to play a small scale skirmish game with only a couple of teams, which I think will put people off even more than the silly triangle circle square pentagon stuff.
Just saying, if I had the DKoK models, I could play with them already. Their rules, polys etc are all posted online already.. This "getting very expensive" point isn't really as big of an issue IRL as people make it to be (Disclaimer: I already preordered Octarius, so I have already paid for the rules; in my case this isn't about piracy)
Nightlord1987 wrote: Been playing the old KT, and in just 3 games my friend/opponent discovered the whole Comms, plus Auspex on a Missile Launcher with Sniper trick for the ol 2+ reroll one auto win, and just like in 2019 I'm bored with it.
Maybe there will be a little bit more to it with these restrictions.
All of those are option within a single tac squad, not being able to mix and pick your team composition wouldn't change if a single unit choice in the game is (allegedly) broken. Unit still have a Specialism and extra equipment choice like auspex.
The fireteam restriction force people to spam the same fighters in their team, which is pretty annoying for many niche units that people only want to bring 1 or 2, not 4,5.
tauist wrote: Just saying, if I had the DKoK models, I could play with them already. Their rules, polys etc are all posted online already.. This "getting very expensive" point isn't really as big of an issue IRL as people make it to be (Disclaimer: I already preordered Octarius, so I have already paid for the rules; in my case this isn't about piracy)
I don't think people should have to resort to piracy (or in this case, screen grabbing from review videos) to play the game if they don't want to spend hundreds of dollars. People want to have a book they can open and read, and when you're introducing new players to a game you want to be able to point to an item and say "buy this, it's a good starting point".
It's a problem I've had with Aeronautica Imperialis, GW did not make a simple and financially logical path to getting into the game and I think it hurt it from getting off the ground (granted they also screwed up the rules balance of that game, but there can be more than one factor to messing up a game).
Nightlord1987 wrote: Been playing the old KT, and in just 3 games my friend/opponent discovered the whole Comms, plus Auspex on a Missile Launcher with Sniper trick for the ol 2+ reroll one auto win, and just like in 2019 I'm bored with it.
Maybe there will be a little bit more to it with these restrictions.
All of those are option within a single tac squad, not being able to mix and pick your team composition wouldn't change if a single unit choice in the game is (allegedly) broken. Unit still have a Specialism and extra equipment choice like auspex.
The fireteam restriction force people to spam the same fighters in their team, which is pretty annoying for many niche units that people only want to bring 1 or 2, not 4,5.
I think also the small tables take away from how useful basic fighters can be.
Right now I already think for a few factions we have just what people say this edition fix, just in tax units. Which I think are fine, and enhance a game when they are feeling right.
Storm guardians I think stand out here, you take them for there gun option. But the troops themselves offer little that guardians don’t, and there CC ability is very narrow as anything you really need robust CC for isn’t really covered.
Dire avengers I still out on, the extra gun on a guardian is tempting. And the dire avengers I think are only a option due to the difficulty to utilise the weapon platform. It’s got a lot of downsides >.<
I think they should have made mixed fire teams a thing. I can see the difficulties arising from completely freeform pick-and-choose but being stuck to two different units is a bit meh. For example; do termagants and hormagaunts really need to be separate teams?
NinthMusketeer wrote: I think they should have made mixed fire teams a thing. I can see the difficulties arising from completely freeform pick-and-choose but being stuck to two different units is a bit meh. For example; do termagants and hormagaunts really need to be separate teams?
Termagants and hormagaunts are a mixed fire team. So it can be done, I think aspects should have been as well. As a mixed unit is entirely within fluff, and makes sense for the type of game they are making.
Small elite unit of aspect warriors, mixed team. When a new book ads a aspect warrior they can just slot into the fire team as extra options. Future proofing the rules a bit even if you reprint the whole roster again in a new book.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I think they should have made mixed fire teams a thing. I can see the difficulties arising from completely freeform pick-and-choose but being stuck to two different units is a bit meh. For example; do termagants and hormagaunts really need to be separate teams?
Termagants and hormagaunts are a mixed fire team. So it can be done, I think aspects should have been as well. As a mixed unit is entirely within fluff, and makes sense for the type of game they are making.
Small elite unit of aspect warriors, mixed team. When a new book ads a aspect warrior they can just slot into the fire team as extra options. Future proofing the rules a bit even if you reprint the whole roster again in a new book.
42,5€ for single howling banshee, 33€ for single striking scorpion, 39€ for dark reaper. Getting fire team will be expensive
Unless GW does dedicated box with suitable mix in itself.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I think they should have made mixed fire teams a thing. I can see the difficulties arising from completely freeform pick-and-choose but being stuck to two different units is a bit meh. For example; do termagants and hormagaunts really need to be separate teams?
Termagants and hormagaunts are a mixed fire team. So it can be done, I think aspects should have been as well. As a mixed unit is entirely within fluff, and makes sense for the type of game they are making.
Small elite unit of aspect warriors, mixed team. When a new book ads a aspect warrior they can just slot into the fire team as extra options. Future proofing the rules a bit even if you reprint the whole roster again in a new book.
42,5€ for single howling banshee, 33€ for single striking scorpion, 39€ for dark reaper. Getting fire team will be expensive
Unless GW does dedicated box with suitable mix in itself.
People can choose to take just one type, or utilise more. This will always be a issue of buy in cost and expansion. Bare in mind, you probably need 3 boxes anyway for a Eldar team unless you go guardians with no expansions and no swap outs. 2 boxes a minimum if not using guardians. So you have saved no money at all with your list there realistically over current rules.
I don't expect we'll see Striking Scorpions as a Kill Team.
Especially given that one of the art cards GW shops gave away for preorders was a redesigned Ranger/Pathfinder look escorting a new type of Seer-ish character across a battlefield with a rusted out Reaver Titan and a Phantom Titan in the background. The other 4 cards were all stuff that's on the Kill Team website, just that one is not.
Especially given that one of the art cards GW shops gave away for preorders was a redesigned Ranger/Pathfinder look escorting a new type of Seer-ish character across a battlefield with a rusted out Reaver Titan and a Phantom Titan in the background. The other 4 cards were all stuff that's on the Kill Team website, just that one is not.
I would buy a warlock/seer escorted by Rangers kill team. Could easily mix guardians, aspect warriors or other outcasts to get to 10 models. But the concept of Rangers smuggling a psyker is just very cool.
On the flip side unless GW did something spectacular with a real space raid kill team, I'd rather just make my own Commorrite kill team.
But will they come in 9 different flavor on 3 sprues like Krieg or Kommando? because typical 1.5 sprue eldar kit with 2,3 choice for Exarch would be pretty boring.
Kanluwen wrote: I don't expect we'll see Striking Scorpions as a Kill Team.
Especially given that one of the art cards GW shops gave away for preorders was a redesigned Ranger/Pathfinder look escorting a new type of Seer-ish character across a battlefield with a rusted out Reaver Titan and a Phantom Titan in the background. The other 4 cards were all stuff that's on the Kill Team website, just that one is not.
Titan wreckage as the terrain in a box set would be amazing.
Kanluwen wrote: Especially given that one of the art cards GW shops gave away for preorders was a redesigned Ranger/Pathfinder look escorting a new type of Seer-ish character across a battlefield with a rusted out Reaver Titan and a Phantom Titan in the background.
I'm not sure how varied the terrain will be getting.
Octarius obviously has the L shaped buildings beloved by the tournament scene.
The Killteam rules also seem to weigh quite heavily on Vantage Points (elevated areas) for gameplay. So buildings and building-like objects.
So I do think terrain will mostly just be differently themed 'skins' of essentially the same terrain.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: It's a problem I've had with Aeronautica Imperialis, GW did not make a simple and financially logical path to getting into the game and I think it hurt it from getting off the ground (granted they also screwed up the rules balance of that game, but there can be more than one factor to messing up a game).
But... they did?
Every one of the two player box sets released with that campaign book (which integrated the core rules in full as a single book purchase) and every model in the two player box sets as separate kits, day and date, if you didn't want to buy the box set.
If anything, GW looked at the response to AI and how successful the 2p boxes were (particularly in relation to follow-up kits and the like), and modeled their KT strategy off of leveraging the box sets' popularity.
Thanks for that Kan. Could be interesting if we get an approcimation of "fallen titan" terrain - like a Reaver head, bits of weapons and whatnot, a foot, maybe part of a Warhound or Phantom torso turned into a building (with 'Vantage Points' and other rule-friendly creations).
This is a Sisters/Cultist pic from the KT website:
I hope those dome-top add-ons for Sector Mechanicus are real.
I’d love to see zone mortalis rereleased in the cheaper hive warzone type box for killteam…
That terrain is amazing for these skirmish games. AMAZING!
Add in the zone mortalis stronghold kit as well and fight across multiple levels of vantage points.
Certainly wouldn’t complain about a Sisters vs Chaos box either.
Edit: Looking through the rumor mill It does look like the next couple teams could be Eldar/GSC/Chaos/Inquisition (or possibly Sisters). If those images are indeed for KT releases.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: It's a problem I've had with Aeronautica Imperialis, GW did not make a simple and financially logical path to getting into the game and I think it hurt it from getting off the ground (granted they also screwed up the rules balance of that game, but there can be more than one factor to messing up a game).
But... they did?
Every one of the two player box sets released with that campaign book (which integrated the core rules in full as a single book purchase) and every model in the two player box sets as separate kits, day and date, if you didn't want to buy the box set.
The two player sets for AI don't have the full rules for the air forces, only what comes in the box, and they don't have much in the way of missions to play. If you want that, you need to also buy a campaign book.
Once you account for having to buy a campaign book anyway, and the hex board in the starter set being too small, the two player starter sets aren't good value unless you specifically want the aircraft in it.
Then if you do buy the starter sets, they don't really give you enough aircraft. The sweet spot for most aircraft is roughly what you get in a squadron box, but the starter set comes with effectively half squadron box. So if you buy a separate box to expand on the same type of aircraft, you will have more than you will ever need.
If you try and lay out AI in terms of what a new player will need to buy to get started and then what they'll need to buy if they want to play it at a decent level, there's just not any enticing pathways.
If anything, GW looked at the response to AI and how successful the 2p boxes were (particularly in relation to follow-up kits and the like), and modeled their KT strategy off of leveraging the box sets' popularity.
I'd be really surprised if AI was all that successful. It's dead on this forum, it's dead at the local stores/groups around here, and GW haven't even bothered keeping the books required to play the game in stock.
I can already tell that the Marines are not going to be a beginner-friendly team.. Not enough operatives. It's the same prob as with the Custodes, lose one or two models and you're flocked. This all boils down to a team which you cannot make mistakes with.
EDIT: I forgot the scouts! Many rosters will have a scout fire team, I bet.
Certainly wouldn’t complain about a Sisters vs Chaos box either.
Edit: Looking through the rumor mill It does look like the next couple teams could be Eldar/GSC/Chaos/Inquisition (or possibly Sisters). If those images are indeed for KT releases.
Next set it meant to be existing Tau pathfinders (with a new sprue to make specialties) vs Sisters of Battle Neophytes. Terrain will be existing city terrain (not sure if the original KT terrain or the Indomitus terrain).
This rumour is from the same person who leaked the Krieg vs Ork Commando box with Ork terrain over a year ago.
If those art cards are any indication then some of the rumors we heard previously about future boxes are incorrect (ex - rumors of Tau Pathfinders vs Sisters Novitiates on Imperial terrain). Based on the cards, it would look like:
Sisters vs Chaos Cultists (lead by a CSM?) in Zone Mortalis/Sector Mechanicus terrain (looks like new terrain based on the art)
Aeldari Rangers (+Warlock?) vs... Im guessing Admech? In what looks like battlefield wreckage terrain
Militarum Tempestus vs Tau in Tau terrain. This one is particularly exciting because thats clearly a Militarum Tempestus sniper in the background of that art, and thats not something that presently exists, which means praise Geedubs we're getting some MT support.
Given that one of them is DKoK vs Orks in Ork terrain I would think that the other art pieces are a strong preview of things to come?
Kaffis wrote: If anything, GW looked at the response to AI and how successful the 2p boxes were (particularly in relation to follow-up kits and the like), and modeled their KT strategy off of leveraging the box sets' popularity.
I'd be really surprised if AI was all that successful. It's dead on this forum, it's dead at the local stores/groups around here, and GW haven't even bothered keeping the books required to play the game in stock.
I meant more that I suspect that GW saw a lot more sales of 2p boxes than they saw sales of individual kits (so relative within the game), not that the game was massively popular overall and pushing out other stuff.
If anything, the new KT release format seems to address the complaints you highlight among the AI community -- "But the box set doesn't include all the rules for the faction, just the rules for the specific models in the set!" "Okay, the faction IS the specific models in the set, it no longer mixes with other releases." "The sweet spot for a squadron is what you get in a box" "Well, okay, I guess we'll make fire teams for compendium factions targeted to the box contents of kits we already sell because apparently players don't like to have extras."
Certainly wouldn’t complain about a Sisters vs Chaos box either.
Edit: Looking through the rumor mill It does look like the next couple teams could be Eldar/GSC/Chaos/Inquisition (or possibly Sisters). If those images are indeed for KT releases.
Next set it meant to be existing Tau pathfinders (with a new sprue to make specialties) vs Sisters of Battle Neophytes. Terrain will be existing city terrain (not sure if the original KT terrain or the Indomitus terrain).
This rumour is from the same person who leaked the Krieg vs Ork Commando box with Ork terrain over a year ago.
Thanks for that! That would be a pretty cool set, I do like the Pathfinder kit quite a bit and some new Sisters models would be awesome. I'd probably pick that up.
I always said the Pathfinder kit is a perfect starting point for a cool looking T'au team with nice model variety. If they are getting a specialist sprue, I'd be delighted!
tauist wrote: I always said the Pathfinder kit is a perfect starting point for a cool looking T'au team with nice model variety. If they are getting a specialist sprue, I'd be delighted!
That eldar box sounds superfun as well
As much as I'm for new pathfinders, I'm hoping we get kroot first. The kroot kit needs an overhaul and they're perfect for kill team
chaos0xomega wrote: If those art cards are any indication then some of the rumors we heard previously about future boxes are incorrect (ex - rumors of Tau Pathfinders vs Sisters Novitiates on Imperial terrain). Based on the cards, it would look like:
Sisters vs Chaos Cultists (lead by a CSM?) in Zone Mortalis/Sector Mechanicus terrain (looks like new terrain based on the art)
Remember that one of the things that's got to happen is an actual, full on Kill Team starter.
Octarius was a launch box for the game and the Octarius campaign. The Pathinders v Novitiates might be the main KT box going forward, as Pathfinders are just supposed to be getting a specialist sprue.
Aeldari Rangers (+Warlock?) vs... Im guessing Admech? In what looks like battlefield wreckage terrain
I'm thinking it's not a Warlock...I don't know why, but gut feel is something akin to the Void Dreamers from the old Corsair list.
Militarum Tempestus vs Tau in Tau terrain. This one is particularly exciting because thats clearly a Militarum Tempestus sniper in the background of that art, and thats not something that presently exists, which means praise Geedubs we're getting some MT support.
It's just the standard Hotshot Lasgun, unfortunately...but there is at least one rumor engine that looks alot like MT greaves.
Given that one of them is DKoK vs Orks in Ork terrain I would think that the other art pieces are a strong preview of things to come?
Feels like it, aye...some of the art on the website is definitely recycled though. There's the box art for Deathwatch: Overkill for example.
40k and Non-Marines in particular have been neglected long enough. For some reason GW can churn out dozens of Warcry boxes to a much smaller player base, but we're stuck with upgrade sprues? C'mon.
40k and Non-Marines in particular have been neglected long enough. For some reason GW can churn out dozens of Warcry boxes to a much smaller player base, but we're stuck with upgrade sprues? C'mon.
This.
When Blackstone Fortress was revealled to have a new Eldar model, we all felt like Alan Grant being welcomed to Jurassic Park...
40k and Non-Marines in particular have been neglected long enough. For some reason GW can churn out dozens of Warcry boxes to a much smaller player base, but we're stuck with upgrade sprues? C'mon.
This does indeed boggle my mind. Rumors are suggesting that there's a lot coming for Black Templar, Eldar, and Chaos Marines into 2022, but heck, we still haven't even gotten the full Ork release. I get that Age of Sigmar dominated most of this Summer, since new edition and all, but man it's gunna be a long wait.
I'm pretty excited for some of the Kill Team rumors and things floating around. GlassHalfDead posted an interview with a KT playtester, and while he couldn't say much, the big takeaway for me was that the playtester hadn't really touched the Compendium units in a long while. The implication being that he had been busy playtesting bigger and better things for Kill Team.
I feel like GW is doing a slow-burner release of Kill Team much like they did for Titanicus. When Titanicus first came out, that first box wasn't actually all that great gameplay wise. Now, though, they're showing off huge new titans that look glorious and the game is super healthy and eagerly awaiting the Heretical Legios book.
Kill Team will likely go the same way. Compendium is boring and unit selection is slim, but over time we'll get more new units made for Kill Team with lots of flavor and upgrades and it'll start to swell in popularity despite the negative opinions.
Remember that one of the things that's got to happen is an actual, full on Kill Team starter.
It doesn't have to happen though. Thats true of GWs main studio games, sure, but this is a game coming out of the publications studio which doesn't necessarily follow the same template/release pattern. In fact, past history suggests that it won't as most of the publications studio games/products are historically "one and done" - the previous edition of KT didn't actually have a permanent starter set either, the starter set that was released was one and done too though produced in sufficient quantity that it was available for a few months before it sold out and was eventually replaced by a second starter set which similarly was only printed in limited quantities (though stuck around for much longer in some areas while it sold old in other regions).
This also kind of jives with the hints dropped by Eddie and Peachy on the reveal stream. When people were asking if it was a limited release they responded that it was in fact limited, and then said but theres a reason for that and then vaguely explained that there was a reason for that and that the name "Octarius" was a pretty massive hint as well as referring to a specific location/conflict and implied, more or less, that all the future releases for this edition of the game would be based around different warzones, etc. I think its unlikely that they put out a true permanent starter set based on this, the way the release roadmap was preview also implies that we're getting a new warzone every quarter which provides ample "starting point" opportunities for new players (4x per year, to be precise) without the need for an actual starter.
It's just the standard Hotshot Lasgun, unfortunately...but there is at least one rumor engine that looks alot like MT greaves.
So admittedly I kitbash my own MT minis and wouldn't know either way, but I was under the impression that the MTs hotshot lasguns didn't have scopes like the one in the artwork does?
See, I got the impression from Eddie & Adam's statements that this was a warzone bit--and they stressed the "launch box" part, comparing it to Dominion, Dark Uprising, and Indomitus. All of which saw an actual starter set coming later on--and Kill Team would see the same.
The hotshots do have scopes.
Spoiler:
Guard, in general, are in a flux right now. There's a lot of weirdness happening.
I don't think Kill-Team will have long-term starter sets, they'll just release and advertise the quarterly KT vs KT boxes enough that they're meant to take their place.
Yeah, I think this will be following the AI model, with various campaign boxes, rather than a true starter.
That artwork for the CSM is all cultists and the CSM champion from the old Dark Vengeance box, which either argues against all new models or that the artwork is not necessarily representative of the boxes.
Given the rumours around Traitor Guard, chances on them starting with a KT box? In fact, I’m hoping that this is a way for GW to introduce / revamp core boxes for a lot of different armies / units and that has now got me very excited for Kroot! With modern sprues, a Kroot box could easily have a whole bunch of troops, hounds and a shaper, with a separate small sprue Krootox?
Kanluwen wrote: Hopefully the image works, had to look around on Facebook(ugh) for one.
That's the Aeldari art card.
Cheers for sharing that, looks fantastic. Really would love a plastic ranger squad with a few options- the lead ranger with the sword is a nod towards the original ranger leader with sword and pistol and love that warlock. I was hoping for a Nid release but a sizeable Eldar update would hit the spot. At the very least I'd get a Killteam ranger set, especially if they ad extras for options/conversions [I'm mostly a modeller/collector so new models are the big pull for me.]
In the end I just bought the books (core + compendium) and tokens set separate from the Octarius box.
I know, I know, it's a bit crazy, but I'm just not that interested in Orks or DKoK or Ork scenery, so paying the extra for that stuff to literally collect dust isn't really a savings for me at all. And the time and effort to pack it up and sell it and ship it to others online -- I guess I just can't be bothered as I don't have enough free time as it is, and that frees up an Octarius for someone who actually wants it all.
Kanluwen wrote: Guard, in general, are in a flux right now. There's a lot of weirdness happening.
Really? I think Imperial Guard is the only faction not in flux right now. It is certainly the only faction I am 100% comfortable acquiring/converting a 20-man roster for.
The Octarius rules are giving everything you will ever get for a standard IG team. Perhaps, down the line, GW will release a bespoke Scion team and/or a mixed team of guardsmen + ogryn (maybe ratlings too)... but there are a lot of factions that need to be graced with a bespoke team before Guard rotate back in.
Kanluwen wrote: Guard, in general, are in a flux right now. There's a lot of weirdness happening.
Really? I think Imperial Guard is the only faction not in flux right now. It is certainly the only faction I am 100% comfortable acquiring/converting a 20-man roster for.
The Octarius rules are giving everything you will ever get for a standard IG team. Perhaps, down the line, GW will release a bespoke Scion team and/or a mixed team of guardsmen + ogryn (maybe ratlings too)... but there are a lot of factions that need to be graced with a bespoke team before Guard rotate back in.
My statement had nothing to do with Kill Team, but rather was in direct reply to someone discussing the codex.
Take for example the new Cadian Shock Troops set and the promo shot used for it:
Spoiler:
Notice the triple special weapons? Lines up great with a Kill Team set, but garbage for anything but running Veteran spam. Still also missing HWT options...which is the same thing for the Krieg sprues.
There's something going on with Guard. We just don't actually know what it is as of yet. Krieg have shown up in a lot of promo art for KT and the Ork release in general, which makes me personally believe we might see something akin to the Shadowspear Vanguard Marine "minidex" for DKoK via a battlebox or something before we see a full IG codex release.
When they first announced the launch boxes they said they intended to make enough stock for them to be around for months rather than instantly sell out. Indomitus release broke that due to the high demand or under producing due to covid. Hopefully Dominion and Kill Team are what we can expect moving forward.
Aeneades wrote: When they first announced the launch boxes they said they intended to make enough stock for them to be around for months rather than instantly sell out. Indomitus release broke that due to the high demand or under producing due to covid. Hopefully Dominion and Kill Team are what we can expect moving forward.
They also said that they would only take orders for those Saturday and Sunday.
Aeneades wrote: When they first announced the launch boxes they said they intended to make enough stock for them to be around for months rather than instantly sell out. Indomitus release broke that due to the high demand or under producing due to covid. Hopefully Dominion and Kill Team are what we can expect moving forward.
They also said that they would only take orders for those Saturday and Sunday.
The Saturday and Sunday were for the Made to Order, not the actual stock allocations.
Next White Dwarf will have 16 pages of new Ad Mech rules for Kill Team. This is in addition to a 6 page guide to Ad Mech kill teams, short story, battle report and 4 page discussion with a KT designer.
kirotheavenger wrote: Oh boy I can't wait for four pages of "how awesome is Killtem?" "really awesome"!
Don't you mean "It's the bestest, most awesomest version of KillTeam (TM) ever-er and it's amazing in very single aspect and better than anything else"?
Interesting. Is this a reaction to the complaints about the Compendium being trash, or was such an article planned all along?
In any case, if we can expect new teams & datasheets in future WD issues, that's good right? These will probably be compiled into an "Annual" type of book at some point.
I was just referencing how everything GW does is always a ravingly positive advertisement. Not even a bad thing per say, it's exactly what you expect from a company's own media outlets.
It just means we can completely discount any possibility of honestly answering real questions like "what were you thinking with the shapes?!".
It'll be quite annoying if this White Dwarf does contain proper Admech rules.
Firstly, why aren't those rules in the compendium to start with?
Secondly, why did they sell Admech players a compendium only to pull that practically day 1?
tauist wrote: Interesting. Is this a reaction to the complaints about the Compendium being trash, or was such an article planned all along?
In any case, if we can expect new teams & datasheets in future WD issues, that's good right? These will probably be compiled into an "Annual" type of book at some point.
Yup. It would have been already planned & printed long before the complaining started.
especially xenos terrain 
He never ONCE pushed anything he got from 
