Generally you don't want to use troops as your firebase because they aren't good at it. If you must do so, just pick whichever one you like the most. Ideally you just take cheap scouts to fill lathe slots and fill the firebase with actually useful units.
Oh yes, there will be five characters in the Razorback haha. Devs with no Cherub and riding in a Rhino?! And speaking of Rhinos... Four of them baby. NO assault elements?! Dreadnoughts haha... Oh man. This looks hilariously bad, but so much fun. I am excited to finally get to use six of my eight five man Tactical Squads. It should be fun to just dump forty-five Marines out of vehicles in a single turn, and will look cool as heck while they do it. I haven't been this excited for some games of 40k with my Blood Angels in a long time now.
I'm genuinely curious how this list works for you. I'm hoping the plasma tacticals in rhinos work better than you're expecting. For some reason I've always wanted to try a mechanized Blood Angels force ever since I was a kid, but I never have.
Hi Hintzy, I regularly run my tac squads in rhinos, and have my scouts on bikes. I always have dual stormbolters on the rhinos an they can put out quite a few shots! But don't ask me for advice on winning games, I run my tacs in the rhinos with heavy flamers, they kill sweet FA but it is fun running a mechanised force
I also like dreads, again, not optimal but they just look cool on the board, throw in some razorbacks, slam and a lefty and your good to go
Oh yes, there will be five characters in the Razorback haha. Devs with no Cherub and riding in a Rhino?! And speaking of Rhinos... Four of them baby. NO assault elements?! Dreadnoughts haha... Oh man. This looks hilariously bad, but so much fun. I am excited to finally get to use six of my eight five man Tactical Squads. It should be fun to just dump forty-five Marines out of vehicles in a single turn, and will look cool as heck while they do it. I haven't been this excited for some games of 40k with my Blood Angels in a long time now.
I'm genuinely curious how this list works for you. I'm hoping the plasma tacticals in rhinos work better than you're expecting. For some reason I've always wanted to try a mechanized Blood Angels force ever since I was a kid, but I never have.
I have used Plasma Tacs in Rhinos for a good chunk of early 8th/post Codex BA. It has fallen out of use for me because the new heavy weapons that have been coming out make even a 72 point Rhino a liability in my play group. I have been better off just taking more bodies and accepting the losses of dudes every turn.
This list looks tons of fun for a casual setting, even though it takes almost zero benefit from the Chapter Tactic is this setup because Tacs are laughably bad in melee. But that is the nice thing about our planned narrative campaign, we aren't going to be running competitive armies at all, just cool stuff.
Martel732 wrote: So plasma tacs are out? Which heavies are taking down the rhino so easily? Rhinos stack up well against disintegrators and tau 2 damage weapons.
Plasma Tacs I wouldn't say are out, they just don't ever seem to be worth 93 points with how quickly they die.
And Riptides, Missile Broadsides, Eldar/Dark Eldar Lances, Daemon Princes, and a slew of others have just made Rhinos wasted points in my games.
Martel732 wrote: Oh ion acclerator Riptides? Yeah, those are bad.
Well, they are still only costing you 7 points per wound.
That is true. But the relic banner placed dead center of my gunline, with Devs and characters huddled around him provides much better protection and value to my army than 72 points of explosive metal box.
Since I normally take Scouts as troops, Rhinos aren't needed. And besides maybe a single plasma Tac Squad in Twin Assault Cannon Razorback... The big guns are stationary for the most part, and everything that will be assaulting (10 DC, Relic JP Libby, Lemartes) drops in from orbit... Also making Rhinos not needed.
Rhinos just aren't providing enough value with how killy our meta is.
Martel732 wrote: I hate scouts. Scouts with no cloaks just die instantly on turn 1. But I also hate tacs. It's just not a good situation all around.
I hate to be 'that guy' but if your scouts are dying on turn one you're playing on tables with terrain that isn't suited for 8th edition. You need some pieces of good LOS blocking terrain to play this edition, or agree that the bottom floor of buildings block LOS. Once you have a solid table to play on scouts can live past turn one if you stuff them out of LOS.
Going to have to disagree on that point martel, for the points I find the assault or normal version of the intercessors very good, they outlive scouts for sure, put down a hurting in the fight phase more so with the Sargent carrying a chain sword for free. and the aux grenade launchers provide a bit of extra hurt. All for 96 points and obsec I think its well worth it for the 10 wounds and 12 attacks
5 Intercessors cost the same as 5 tac marines with a ML or LC.
Stick 'em in area cover for that sweet 2+ save and with 2 wounds should be able to take a bit of punishment.
If indirect fire is from the popular mortars of AM then with them averaging 3.5atks per, hitting on 4's, wounding on 4's and that sweet aforementioned 2+ save then anything less than 69 mortars isn't gonna wipe them in 1 turn!
GodsCronik wrote: Going to have to disagree on that point martel, for the points I find the assault or normal version of the intercessors very good, they outlive scouts for sure, put down a hurting in the fight phase more so with the Sargent carrying a chain sword for free. and the aux grenade launchers provide a bit of extra hurt. All for 96 points and obsec I think its well worth it for the 10 wounds and 12 attacks
It's really close, so i almost agree with you. Damage 2 is just too common now in my meta. Esp dissy cannons.
PrometheusZero wrote: 5 Intercessors cost the same as 5 tac marines with a ML or LC.
Stick 'em in area cover for that sweet 2+ save and with 2 wounds should be able to take a bit of punishment.
If indirect fire is from the popular mortars of AM then with them averaging 3.5atks per, hitting on 4's, wounding on 4's and that sweet aforementioned 2+ save then anything less than 69 mortars isn't gonna wipe them in 1 turn!
PrometheusZero wrote: 5 Intercessors cost the same as 5 tac marines with a ML or LC.
Stick 'em in area cover for that sweet 2+ save and with 2 wounds should be able to take a bit of punishment.
If indirect fire is from the popular mortars of AM then with them averaging 3.5atks per, hitting on 4's, wounding on 4's and that sweet aforementioned 2+ save then anything less than 69 mortars isn't gonna wipe them in 1 turn!
On average.
EDIT: Corrected calculation.
They dont have a 2+, pretty sure its a 3+
Yeah, 3+ armour with an extra one for sitting in area cover!
PrometheusZero wrote: 5 Intercessors cost the same as 5 tac marines with a ML or LC.
Stick 'em in area cover for that sweet 2+ save and with 2 wounds should be able to take a bit of punishment.
If indirect fire is from the popular mortars of AM then with them averaging 3.5atks per, hitting on 4's, wounding on 4's and that sweet aforementioned 2+ save then anything less than 69 mortars isn't gonna wipe them in 1 turn!
On average.
EDIT: Corrected calculation.
With the range of 48" on the mortars they shoot something without a 2+ save.
PrometheusZero wrote: 5 Intercessors cost the same as 5 tac marines with a ML or LC.
Stick 'em in area cover for that sweet 2+ save and with 2 wounds should be able to take a bit of punishment.
If indirect fire is from the popular mortars of AM then with them averaging 3.5atks per, hitting on 4's, wounding on 4's and that sweet aforementioned 2+ save then anything less than 69 mortars isn't gonna wipe them in 1 turn!
On average.
EDIT: Corrected calculation.
With the range of 48" on the mortars they shoot something without a 2+ save.
If at the start of a game any infantry is not in cover or in a transport you're doing it wrong!
I´m writing a list atm and I want to build a small firebase which is buffed by my Veritas Vitae carrying Captain. I have 350-450 points left over and need mainly anti infantry shooting.
What are my best options here? TAC with HB, Intercessors, Devastators with HB? (1 Devastator squad is ok for me, but the rest of the choices should be Standard, since I have to fill out that batallion)
I have used to reasonable effect 3 Rapiers with Quad Mortars. They have dual fire - either 60" indirect 4d3 shots s5 ap-0 1dam, or 24" direct fire s8 ap-2 3dam, heavy support, and small enough to hide. Very potent with a captain and lieutenant support, I give them both jump packs too so they can stay flexible to redeploy if needed and also help with counter-charge. Also nice to use to hit a Brigade's requirements with, and can surround with 3 Tarantulas for dirt cheap fast attack slots.
I´m writing a list atm and I want to build a small firebase which is buffed by my Veritas Vitae carrying Captain. I have 350-450 points left over and need mainly anti infantry shooting.
What are my best options here? TAC with HB, Intercessors, Devastators with HB? (1 Devastator squad is ok for me, but the rest of the choices should be Standard, since I have to fill out that batallion)
I have used to reasonable effect 3 Rapiers with Quad Mortars. They have dual fire - either 60" indirect 4d3 shots s5 ap-0 1dam, or 24" direct fire s8 ap-2 3dam, heavy support, and small enough to hide. Very potent with a captain and lieutenant support, I give them both jump packs too so they can stay flexible to redeploy if needed and also help with counter-charge. Also nice to use to hit a Brigade's requirements with, and can surround with 3 Tarantulas for dirt cheap fast attack slots.
I prefer 4 assault bolter Inceptors. Awesome and consistent number of shots, good AP, mobile and most importantly of all, deep strike capable. Not dropping then on turn 1 isn't a big deal as you'd think, as if they were on the board, they were not likely to reach anything anyways and were more likely to get shot at. This way, they can drop down, on any target of your choice, stay max range of their weapons and unload.
A few more games lately after a month off of 40k due to being too busy and I’m slowly learning the codex better.
I’ve stopped making Cpt Smash my warlord. Now he’s just a sacrificial scrub who gives my opponent absolute fits.
Intercessors are my go-to troops, mostly because I love the minis, but also because they leverage the +1 to Wound better.
SG are my favourite elites; amazing models and if you can get Unleash Rage off they are worth their weight in...gold coloured plastic.
DC continue to elude me. I know it’s because I don’t invest the CP and points into them that I ought to but the past 3 games they’ve done nothing but fail charges and die.
Vanguard Vets have no place. I sold the 10 I have. Screw ‘em. They’re the cover girls of our book but shouldn’t be lol.
Tac marines are trash.
Devs with ablative wounds have been working well for me. Hellblasters have been good but being able to take casualties without loss of effectiveness and 48” range has been fantastic.
Librarian dread has been so-so. Some games he’s great, some games he isn’t. I honestly feel at this point that several of our psychic powers are 1 higher to cast than they ought to be, especially compared to the utility many of our opponents get from their disciplines.
Predators, and to a lesser extent Razorbacks, continue to suck.
Dreadnoughts sort of suck as well, outside of maybe the Contemptor.
Quick question, in the codex and on battlescribe it seems that devastors have access to heavy flamers. Is this an oversight? Or can Blood Angel devastator squads pack 4 heavy flamers?
Because that seems really cool. I know this probably wouldn't cut it in top tournaments, but 2 heavy flamer dev squads in a crusder, with a 5 man death company squad and a chaplain sounds really really fun.
Run that up to support a jump pack assault, and assaults by ad mech priests in termites...man that sounds cool.
More cost effective way would probably be devs in rhinos and rushing them up. Supporting the assaulting.
They share <Adeptus Astartes> so you can put them in the detachments together, but you wouldn't get The Red Thirst or Defenders of Humanity abilities since it wouldn't be a BLOOD ANGEL detachment or a Blood Angels successor Chapter Detachment (that is, any Detachment which only includes units from that successor Chapter). It also wouldn't unlock the BA stratagems.
Agreed. Flamers would be worth their points if they had one of the following: Allow a re-roll on the D6 to determine the number of auto hits/roll 2D6 and take the higher dice, or re-roll any failed to-wound rolls on the auto-hits, or did D3+3, D6+3 or D6+6 auto hits depending on if you're shooting a hand flamer, a standard flamer, or a heavy flamer.
Inferno Cannons would do 2D6+6 or something.
Flamers need a price drop or some better rules that make it worth running them.
Personally, I would love to see them implement a re-roll on failed to-wound rolls for hits with a flamer weapon. Would make weapons like hand flamers at least a bit more effective. I love hand flamers, their fluff and use, etc. but their rules have always been sub-par for what they do.
I have no problem with them being 6" range, though I do wish it was 8", and that the standard flamer was 9", with the heavy flamer rounding it out at 10" range. Seems a logical step there. Give them a re-roll to wound at least lets you have a better shot at getting more than one to two wounds in on a target, which is what it's supposed to be good at.
Some heavy artillery such as Basilisks or Manticores also work quite well. BA Devaststors are OK but being able to lob 2D6 S10 AP-2 shots 120" every turn without even needing LOS is pretty good!
Knight commander pask in an executioner with lascannon and plasma sponsons. Re-rollable 2D6 shots with tank order, plus 2D3 sponson shots, hitting on 2s, re-rolling 1s (if you didnt move, or less than half your movement value), which means you can safely overcharge. Even if you roll double 1s its only 1 MW which you can repair at the start of your next turn with a stratagem. With grand strategist you can roll and get the CP back on 5+. With the veritas vitae you can roll another dice and get another CP on 5+. Spend 1 CP, repair tank, get 2 CP
I'm about to build some Blood Angels for the first time and I'm wondering what the current best loadout is for the following:
* Death Company (teams of 5-10)
* Sanguinary Guard
* Space Marine Scouts (teams of 5)
Also, I have a box of vanguard which I plan to turn into at least a couple Slamguiniuses and a Sanguinary Priest. Any advice on how to best accomplish that?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
p5freak wrote: Guard CP farm battalion. 2 company commander with grand strategist and kurovs tequila on each one and 3x10 standard troops.
What does the company commander model look like? Can't seem to find it.
Death Company are pretty fragile, just basic Marines with a 6+++ so need to be run in decent-sized squads to be effective. I run 10 with jump packs led by Lemartes. 7 have bolters and chainswords for dealing with infantry while 3 have thunder hammers for taking out large targets. Even LoWs like Knights will take a lot of damage from these guys on the charge.
Sanguinary Guard work well with Swords. If running them with your Warlord (prefferably Sanguinor), they also work well with Fists. Don't bother with axes as they are overpriced/underpowered. Extra pistols are optional but don't get too carried away here.
If possible, take a Sanguinary Ancient with "Standard of Sacrifice" to accompany them. Rerolling 1s to wound in melee is handy but getting a 5+++ save is truly golden.
I built mine from Sanguinary Guard parts with the TH/SS from the Vanguard set. I normally just run one so the wings represent the relic jump pack.
gundamz wrote: I'm about to build some Blood Angels for the first time and I'm wondering what the current best loadout is for the following:
* Death Company (teams of 5-10)
* Sanguinary Guard
* Space Marine Scouts (teams of 5)
Also, I have a box of vanguard which I plan to turn into at least a couple Slamguiniuses and a Sanguinary Priest. Any advice on how to best accomplish that?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
p5freak wrote: Guard CP farm battalion. 2 company commander with grand strategist and kurovs tequila on each one and 3x10 standard troops.
What does the company commander model look like? Can't seem to find it.
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NL/Imperial-Guard-Cadian-Command-Squad-2017
Its not a separate model because prior to 8th edition it wasn't a separate model.
Karhedron wrote: Death Company are pretty fragile, just basic Marines with a 6+++ so need to be run in decent-sized squads to be effective. I run 10 with jump packs led by Lemartes. 7 have bolters and chainswords for dealing with infantry while 3 have thunder hammers for taking out large targets. Even LoWs like Knights will take a lot of damage from these guys on the charge.
Sanguinary Guard work well with Swords. If running them with your Warlord (prefferably Sanguinor), they also work well with Fists. Don't bother with axes as they are overpriced/underpowered. Extra pistols are optional but don't get too carried away here.
If possible, take a Sanguinary Ancient with "Standard of Sacrifice" to accompany them. Rerolling 1s to wound in melee is handy but getting a 5+++ save is truly golden.
I built mine from Sanguinary Guard parts with the TH/SS from the Vanguard set. I normally just run one so the wings represent the relic jump pack.
Never would have thought to use purple on the cloth. Looks really good!
gundamz wrote: I'm about to build some Blood Angels for the first time and I'm wondering what the current best loadout is for the following:
* Death Company (teams of 5-10)
* Sanguinary Guard
* Space Marine Scouts (teams of 5)
Also, I have a box of vanguard which I plan to turn into at least a couple Slamguiniuses and a Sanguinary Priest. Any advice on how to best accomplish that?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
p5freak wrote: Guard CP farm battalion. 2 company commander with grand strategist and kurovs tequila on each one and 3x10 standard troops.
What does the company commander model look like? Can't seem to find it.
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NL/Imperial-Guard-Cadian-Command-Squad-2017
Its not a separate model because prior to 8th edition it wasn't a separate model.
Do people only use Cadians? Does anyone else besides me have Catachans?
Actually the Forgebane bits work pretty well with BAs. Admech as not as efficient CP farmers as IG but an AdMech Battalion can be had pretty cheaply and Skitari with Transuranic arquebuses are pretty decent as objective camping Troops.
The Armiger Warglaives are also pretty tasty as they are tough, fast and hard hitting. They complement BAs really well as they are fast enough to keep pace with our jump pack units and either melt tough targets and/or charge into melee alongside them.
Possibly not quite top tier stuff but there are some nice synergies to be found.
Is there a general tactics guide, and not just a mass of discussion somewhere in this thread? (Not to knock the discussion, I'd just like to see all the tactical resources in one place.)
Karhedron wrote: Actually the Forgebane bits work pretty well with BAs. Admech as not as efficient CP farmers as IG but an AdMech Battalion can be had pretty cheaply and Skitari with Transuranic arquebuses are pretty decent as objective camping Troops.
The Armiger Warglaives are also pretty tasty as they are tough, fast and hard hitting. They complement BAs really well as they are fast enough to keep pace with our jump pack units and either melt tough targets and/or charge into melee alongside them.
Possibly not quite top tier stuff but there are some nice synergies to be found.
Thanks for that, I'm not looking for top tier, just to be able to smash up Necrons
I also got a couple of the other Amiger Helverin knights to go alongside as BA are so lacking in that sort of LOW options.
Hey all. not sure if its been covered in here, but im struggling on deployment.
im running 2000pts with the usual battalion of scouts with flavour to suit the facing army and a vanguard of dc blob and sang guard/ancient. now i understand about using terrain ect but that only goes so far lol, i mean more tips/tricks ect (personally i think i need more selfcontrol, i tend to hunt juicy things lol)
SO I am slowly dipping my foot back into 8th Edition, it has been 8 months, and am going to try my hand at Blood Angels. I have been reading a lot of the pages here, but there is a lot to take in. With the models I have and have access to I am wondering if there is a place for a couple Units I want to use to fill some points. I have the solid units.
Mephiston, Lemartes, Sanguinious, Chaplian Jump pack
I am going to make a Death Company Slam Captain
Scouts and Tacts for troops
20 Death Company w/jump packs and 9 Sang Guard
a couple DC Dreads
Storm Raven
Bikes
I have a couple Rhinos to use and a Razor Back
What I want to look at is I have a FW Fire Raptor and Storm Eagle
And a Knight with the Battle Cannon and Avenger Cannon.
What is the best way to utilize these units to support my Blood Angels Army. Mostly in 2k games, semi competitive.
I most of the time rely on my Smash Captains / Mephiston for AT, backed up by Devs. (Don't forget to add a RL & HB for some MW).
Sang Guard also is good against tough targets, as is DC with hammers.
A dev squad with PCs, LCs, HBs, additional marines as ablative wounds, plus cherub and a basic captain/lieutenant. With the hellfire shells stratagem and cherub you can deal 2D3 MW, confirmed by codex SMFAQ. Same with flakk missile.
For those who frequent this thread, what's a good number of SG to run. I also dropped DC/lemartes because they weren't worth the effort to get into combat so I'm not sure what to replace them with. I have inceptors painted and read but I'm not sure they're my choice either. could use some direction.
I'm also thinking about dropping DC. They are good damage dealers for sure, but I they just die.
How good are those SG? I feel like they need a lots of character support to make work. (Sanguinor, Banner, Libby)
lash92 wrote: I'm also thinking about dropping DC. They are good damage dealers for sure, but I they just die.
How good are those SG? I feel like they need a lots of character support to make work. (Sanguinor, Banner, Libby)
I was thinking on this. Isn't it true of every power armor space marine, and even most primaries? "They just die". I don't think there is a better replacement for DC due to the stratagem. But vanguars vets are really close. You could bring them with 5pt storm shields and really scare some units. But the will die to mass bolter fire anyways.
I was wondering why people dont take power axes on DC. Seems way better then chainswords( lost a combat to tau fire warriors once because my chainswords could not pen that 4+armor.)
2x 6-8ish dc + power swords + lemartes are t2 drops that clear your enemys front lines and if they survive for t3 its a bonus. A valid choice yes but they are less effective tool now they cant t1 charge and the rest of the upgrades are just not worth it. Unless your lucky and the enemies coming to you
SG+ terminators + FNP banner are certainly more survivable but will struggle to make there pts back and are very vulnerable to high AP (which is more common now) and also struggle with not hitting the board till t2 (T3) if you fail the charge.
Since I'm running BA mostly as allies for my Admech (stygies) force that's the question I'm asking myself at the moment.
What's everyone's opinion on Mephiston ? Worth an inclusion?
Also since I'm taking 2 smash Cpts what about adding a small dev unit with hb & RL which the second Cpt can babysit for 1-2 turn for some nice MW spam?
In my last game, 6 player 1k lists 3v3, BA, SW, IK vs. DG, necrons, Nightlords..
Mephy with wings managed to swoop inside a screen circle and kill a warlord. My 6man SG squad with banner was the most valuable unit our opponents said, in cover (stole an objective swarmed by enemy) they were bad ass.
We played 6 open objective cards, with both sides able to score and you could discard one after scoring before the opponent drew it back to 6.
We were winning with points (18 v 4 something), but the the enemy had like 60% of the models on the table and on T5 my lone Slam captain had used upon wings of fire to redeploy inside a building and hiding in the armoury building behind a predator (terrain) with only 1 wound left. And then poxwalkers charged it, after rolls.. I had to make two 3+ saves without chance for rerolls.. 10h game ended in such a climax, it was epic. We win with points if I make those rolls or enemy tables us.
Have to say the necron croisant is tough.. IK can shoot, but are terrible against flyers.. My devs with HB&ML were quite situational. Was my first time to play on a 1,8 x 2,4m table, we even had quite dense terrain.
lash92 wrote: How good are those SG? I feel like they need a lots of character support to make work. (Sanguinor, Banner, Libby)
They are good but rather all-eggs-in-one basket. I think 8-10 with an even mix of swords and fists is best. The Banner is pretty much essential for the 5+FNP and a Sanguinary Novitiate/Priest with JP (Index option) to heal or resurrect them will keep them in the fight longer. Sanguinor is definitely a big boost for them. Libby is nice to have rather than essential.
One nifty trick if you want to make sure they always benefit from their "Heirs of Azkellon" rule is to make one of the Sanguinary Guard your Warlord! You lose out on the Warlord Trait which sucks slightly but is does make sure that the squad always gets full rerolls. No more worrying about whether your WL will make the charge or other problems.
I think if/when smash captains are nerfed to 1 per detachment or something mephy will get more popular as he is good, just not quite as good as another captain.
U02dah4 wrote: See thats not strong because you cant optimise strategems fir that many. 2 works 2+ mephiston works because he can operate without if need be.
And you typically need guard around to have enough CP to make it work for 2+ captains.
That being said, I think they are actually more a result of the meta than an actual problem.
Knights, particularly a single knight with access to a 3++ save, and eldar with -1 to -3 to hit, and infantry hordes with too many cheap wounds really shut down most of the shooting in the game. Blood angels captains just happen to have everything they need to exploit the weaknesses of those units, and guard CP batteries let you use their full combo every turn.
However, I don't think those things are going away, so I don't think limiting captains and other spammy HQs to 1 per detachment is a terrible idea. Especially when you remember in previous editions you could only have 2 HQs total.
Side note. Faced rather interesting BA/knight list on the casual themed tournament that ended up 2nd going 14-6(biel-tan aspect warrior host), 20-0(vs my ork horde) and 9-11(vs tounament winner and his what looked tzeentch chaos)
So that's shooty BA out of all things O_o. Scenario was rather unkind for my 243 model ork horde as it had kill points among other things which gave him tons of potentials for KP's(it was tight victory for him before kill points were added). That shooting made hard to get to his DZ especially with knight as gate keeper killing tons of boyz. Albeit I screwed up big time forgetting he can heroic intervene which gave him free round of stomps and charge into boyz mob that was along with another and warboss preparing to charge. Also lost one of my weirdboys to stupid deployment mistake. He shouldn't have been able to put inceptors to my rear.
Descent of angels on what, that min size Inceptor squad? Those 6 attacks are supposed to pack a punch?
Anyway, I’m bitter as usual because our book is a one trick pony and our fun stuff needs way too many babysitters to work. I’m having a hell of a time figuring out proper support fire while balancing having enough CC to actually achieve something meaningful lol.
Death Company hit nice and hard in CC with just Lemartes for support. Use DOA on them and leave one trailing behind to keep Lemmy in the bubble. Lemmy also counts as a DC model so will benefit from his own rerolls to charge and hit which is handy.
I prefer DC to SG as they require less support and are a lot cheaper. They are more fragile so I tend to treat them like a guided missile. I throw them at a particularly dangerous unit that needs to die or into the heart of the enemy army. They rarely survive but the damage they cause is usually decisive which is as it should be.
I find Death Company overrated. They can toss out a ton of attacks but they are still 20 points so need to kill an absolute boatload of chaff because next turn they’re cut to ribbons like Tac Marines. With hammers for hunting big stuff they are basically SG price. DC are almost always more expensive than what you’re using them to kill. They are a poor value.
SG don’t hit hard enough because of their D3 damage. I’d like them more if they did 3. Even a flat 2 (I know, I know, averages and all that but the fewer dice I need to roll the better, the game already involves too much rolling and re rolling). SG are only reasonable with an SGA relic banner warlord, and to a lesser extent a JP Librarian warlord. The problem with the librarian is our discipline has one good spell, two decent ones, 3 bad ones and most of our warp charges are too high. SoS giving 5++ instead of 4++ puts it firmly in the crap pile. It would be better if it were either a +1 to armour save or a -1 to hit (maybe the shield is a giant golden glow that blinds the enemy lol).
SG are my dedicated heavy melee unit but the amount of babysitting and buffing they need to be able to accomplish anything is pretty sad. GW didn’t do us any favours by giving us poor unit specific strats either. Instead of increasing their potential utility we got trash like Behold the Golden Host and Strike of the Archangels. Neither is worth a CP. Don’t get me started on how trashy Forlorn Fury is. That has 1CP written all over it.
At this point I’m sticking with SG, Intercessors, Slam Capfsin, Priest, and working on figuring out what the fire support element of my list ought to be. Mostly Devs I guess because Preds and dreads die too fast. Razors with heavy Tac squads could maybe be reasonable.
So played my first game of 40k since December and brought out my Blood Angels army. Played 2K against a Chaos Soup Army. Consisting of Black Legion, Deamons(Khorne), and a Renegade Knight. Was a great game but feel like I was doing something wrong. I won by turn 3 (we played the Relic and I had control of it with no way for him to get to it.
I brought 2 Battalions
1 with:
Smash Captain (w/hammer and made him Death Company)
Smash Captain with the Jump Pack relic
1 Unit 5 Sniper Scouts
2 Units 5 Tacts with Combi Flamer and Heavy Flamer
10 Death Company (2 with Fist, 2 With Sword, Rest basic)
5 Man Dev Squad w/ 4 Heavy Flamer
1 Razor Back w/ Heavy Flamer
2nd Battalion
Mephiston
Librarian Dread
1 unit 5 sniper scouts
2 units 5 tacts w/ Combi flamer and Heavy flamer
3 Scout bikes
1 storm raven
So just to highlight the Librarian Dread is awesome! Was embarked on the Stormraven - First turn deployed out 3in moved 8 Then cast Wings and jumped 12 (over a unit of Beserkers and Fought his Knight. (The Bersekers used a strat to set up forward a bit so made it possible to jump over. Cleared out a unit of Bloodletters with mass shooting from the Storm Raven.) The Libi Dread took out the knight in one combat, Dying in the process. But it was a trade I will take. With Quickening and Red Rampage it took out half the Knights wounds on the charge and then died. Attacking with the start after it died took the second half of wounds off. It was a great trade!!
Mephiston in combat is crazy good with Feel no pain.
I was facing a very heavy close combat army so the heavy flamers were amazing. The Devs in the razor back were pretty much ignored with the threat of the Dread and DeathCompany as well as the Two Smash Captains. Turn two they were in range and flaming his army hiding in a building. I did lose both my Smash Captains to Argron (the Khorne Deamon Prince Character guy) But Mephiston was able to finish him off.
The Scout bikes did little more than clear out cultist. And Sniper Scouts harassed his Havocs. They filler a role but did not do much else.
The Death Company were a great. threat that took the relic and ran. I felt wrong running them away with the relic, but it was a dangerous unit to come and fight for the relic. (That was the mission)
Looks like it has the character heavy/min chaff design down pat.
If I started taking multiple smash captains I’d never hear the end of it. The fact that every soup player uses them has me leaning on only taking one because I’m confident they’ll be nerfed to hell soon.
It sounds like you just had a reasonable game; you’ll have plenty of games where you’ll want to throw the librarian dreadnought in the garbage because he’s an overpriced paperweight who can’t cast a spell worth a damn lol.
I think your list will severely struggle against anything that can shoot half decently. Those flamers are going to bite you in the ass eventually.
Has anyone had some luck with our Flyers for clearing out screens for our cqc units?
The Stormraven seems to expensive in my opinion, but the the Stormhawk Interceptor gives you a nice package for under 200 points. Sure you will be hitting on 4'a but you got lots of shots to circumvent this.
The Stormraven may seem pricey, but there are extra benefits to using it. Deploying out of it first turn can get you an extra 3" + to your movement. Also it can provide a bit of protection for first turn and if it is destroyed you can still deploy out of it 3+ inches. If it isn't it can still put out massive firepower and clear out chaff units with little problem.
I ran mine with 2 5 man tacticals (extra wounds incase it got destroyed) A librarian Dread and Mephiston. First turn I deployed the Libby Dread and Mephiston and flew it over to clear out two units of chaff. It made its points up just from doing that. 3 inches, plus the dreadnaught base, plus its normal movement and then casting wings on it got it into charge range turn 1 after the Stormraven cleared a path for it.
With the Storm Raven, The Libby Dread, Mephiston, a Smash Captain, and a unit of 10 DC all so close ot his front line there was so many threats to deal with. Mephiston was in range for his Physic powers and had the bubble from the Smash Captain for support.
I will be running one for the next couple games without hesitating.
The Stormraven, defensively, is a rhino with -1 to hit and 4 extra wounds. It should top out at 250 pts tops. But it doesn't, so I don't use it. Too expensive.
Martel732 wrote: The Stormraven, defensively, is a rhino with -1 to hit and 4 extra wounds. It should top out at 250 pts tops. But it doesn't, so I don't use it. Too expensive.
I wish my Rhinos came with 2 multimelta, 2 assault cannons and 4 missiles!
However generally I find them too expensive to fit them and everything else I want into a list. Especially as my friend group now plays 1750 points.
I specifically said "defensively". Multimeltas are crap anyway. You should never have them in your list. Marines pay too much for their gear on top of every other problem. You want your guns spread out for this reason. You can't have them all in one basket. This makes it hard to aura them, but the marine aura thing is terrible for many reasons in addition to this.
I honestly don't know what to play right now. I got tabled turn 4 against death guard this friday and neither of us was playin with allies. It seems that GW's original plan was to force you to play <IMPERIUM> since the very beginning...
Spado wrote: I honestly don't know what to play right now. I got tabled turn 4 against death guard this friday and neither of us was playin with allies. It seems that GW's original plan was to force you to play <IMPERIUM> since the very beginning...
Martel732 wrote: DG are brutal, and all our BA specific unit are pretty bad. It's not your fault.
My regular DG opponent has been on a tear lately. He fears DC but they disappear instantly. He has far more viable builds to his army than I do, and piles of invulnerable saves and 5+++ give me fits. Not to mention I still have no god damn clue how plagueburst crawlers went down in points last time FAQs came out (you know, the one that did nothing for us).
My enjoyment of the game is seriously waning because our army is a one trick pony with a gimmick that every opponent sees coming, and soup players abuse, like the list a couple posts up. My excitement to get back into the game at the start of 8th is gone because GWs system is more broken than ever thanks to soup being an absolute joke.
It’s telling that this tactics thread is dead, since we have no real tactics. The only bumps it gets are new people realizing their list sucks and looking for answers that we don’t have, and Martel and I commiserating over the state of our marines lol. Pretty bad feeling when you spend hundreds (to thousands) on a hobby and get too discouraged to do much beyond read about it or paint because you know playing a game is likely a waste of a few hours of your life
Rune priest has 3 attacks plus 1 for relic or warlord trait. They manifest a psychic power, freki and greki, which let them do 6 additional attacks until the next psychic phase. Then use the 3CP stratagem to fight again.
Libby + Quickening + Red Thirst + Honour of the Chapter can potentially hit 20 attacks. Although the average of 16 is slightly lower, if the Libby is Mephiston, he hits a lot harder than a Rune Priest.
Karhedron wrote: Libby + Quickening + Red Thirst + Honour of the Chapter can potentially hit 20 attacks. Although the average of 16 is slightly lower, if the Libby is Mephiston, he hits a lot harder than a Rune Priest.
Meph is 145 pts. A rune priest is only 100 pts. And you have to roll a d3 for each quickening and red rampage again, the second time you fight. The rune priest can even get up to 22 attacks, if he kills 5 models in the fight phase he can use his saga of the wolfkin warlord trait, which grants him another +1 attack. And with might of heroes from a space marine librarian its 24 attacks.
Karhedron wrote: Libby + Quickening + Red Thirst + Honour of the Chapter can potentially hit 20 attacks. Although the average of 16 is slightly lower, if the Libby is Mephiston, he hits a lot harder than a Rune Priest.
Meph is 145 pts. A rune priest is only 100 pts. And you have to roll a d3 for each quickening and red rampage again, the second time you fight. The rune priest can even get up to 22 attacks, if he kills 5 models in the fight phase he can use his saga of the wolfkin warlord trait, which grants him another +1 attack. And with might of heroes from a space marine librarian its 24 attacks.
That's how much investment, for attacks that are still worse than Mephiston's?
Hey guys, ive been playtesting a unit of 10 tactical terminators all with storm bolters ( no special weapons to keep the cost down ). Talk about anti horde, 4 shots each when they deepstrike is great, throw in a Terminator Ancient and they all get that 5+ ignore wound with the Standard of Sacrifice Relic and that sweet 2+5++ as well. Against guard it works great because they mow down a squad when they drop in, then charge a nice juicy tank, re roll hits from Ancient, S8 powerfists that get +1 to wound will threaten any big target. Vastly under rated unit atmimo. Give it a try it might surprise you. Give them +1 attack from psychic powers for lulz.
p5freak wrote: A terminator ancient alone does not give terminators a 5+ FNP. Terminators are overpriced and underpowered.
That was my thoughts as well, but after playtesting they seem to be holding there own. 40 shots out of one unit that drops in is great vs infantry, and if they get the charge, pretty much any vehicle is toast. Heck with +1 attack from unleash rage, they become scary.
Quickening is trash thanks to WC7. Can’t count on it at all, which means you can’t count on your Librarian for combat. Sanguinary discipline is overcosted or underpowered across the board.
As for 10 tactical termies and an ancient... that’s 25%+ of your list sitting in a blob of stormbolters and slow moving power fists. No thanks.
GW thinks we are still to powerful. Time for more nerfs. Upon wings of fire is now 2CP, and FLY only ignores models and terrain in the movement phase. No more free vertical charges. Baal predators still cant use killshot.
Veritas Vitae also took the same hit that all CP regeneration did, so overall we got nerfed more. I love 8th.
A year later and we still don’t have clarification on things we argued about upon release. Killshot for Baal Preds, what use Lucifer Pattern Engines are, etc.
Pretty disgusting that they had to clarify that cherubs can’t be revived. Shows what kind of POS culture tourney play promotes.
p5freak wrote: GW thinks we are still to powerful. Time for more nerfs. Upon wings of fire is now 2CP, and FLY only ignores models and terrain in the movement phase. No more free vertical charges. Baal predators still cant use killshot.
I quit using BA jump assault elements other than capt a while ago.
But yeah, 8th ed has turned out to be no better for us than 6/7th.
It’s incredible that soup is a massive tumour on this game but the surgeons at GW keep out taking otherwise healthy things every six months in surgery and are then surprised the cancer is still there.
At this point I’m down to either a mediocre gunline with a unit of jump packs for thematic purposes or just saying screw this and playing Kill Team. Or just moving on after wrongly assuming GW would improve the game over the course of the decade I stopped playing.
peteralmo wrote: GW clearly either hasn't considered the viability of pure BA in competitive tournaments, or they just don't care that they aren't viable.
peteralmo wrote: GW clearly either hasn't considered the viability of pure BA in competitive tournaments, or they just don't care that they aren't viable.
Welcome to all Space Marine armies.
Not quite, the melee centric factions, BA, GK, are way worse off than a Guilliman gunline.
U02dah4 wrote: SG+ terminators + FNP banner are certainly more survivable but will struggle to make there pts back and are very vulnerable to high AP (which is more common now) and also struggle with not hitting the board till t2 (T3) if you fail the charge.
This is why its so crucial to land the SG near a squad in range of those angelus boltguns and let em have it, then charge a different target in melee. Same with regular Terminators, let those storm bolters rip apart a squad when they land, then charge something juicy. A failed charge is bad, but at least SG get 3d6 charge from the strategem, and for regular terminators you could throw on 2 AC and use the stratagem they get to re roll all hits when they land.
Ok just playtested a squad of 10 Vanguard Vets in a friendly game vs DG. I gave them 4 storm shield and 4 double lightning claws. They landed and made the charge against a squad of 7 plagemarines and ripped them to pieces. My opponent fired some plasma and bolters into them the following turn and I made most of the saves, 2 died. They ended up killing a demon prince ( he was wounded from fire ) and a bunch of poxwalkers before the game was over ( I won ) because he was concentrating on the rest of my force ( consisted of mostly Primaris Marines, Redemptor Dreads, and Hellblasters ). Honestly with +1 to wound im sold on lightning claws now, they are ridiculous in a VV squad.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also just realized you can combine Sang Priest with Jump Pack with 10 VV squad... str 5 re rolls with +1 wound with double lightning claws. Against even T8 thats 4+ to wound with re roll to wound, -2 ap. Pretty tasty.
They still die like flies to mass bolter fire, SS doesnt help. A 28 pt. model with just T4 W1 is ridiculous. They only have pistols, 12" range. Company vets have the same stats, but better gear. Their max model size is only 6, though.
p5freak wrote: They still die like flies to mass bolter fire, SS doesnt help. A 28 pt. model with just T4 W1 is ridiculous. They only have pistols, 12" range. Company vets have the same stats, but better gear. Their max model size is only 6, though.
SS helps against a lot of stuff, just not basic stuff.
Karhedron wrote: Libby + Quickening + Red Thirst + Honour of the Chapter can potentially hit 20 attacks. Although the average of 16 is slightly lower, if the Libby is Mephiston, he hits a lot harder than a Rune Priest.
Meph is 145 pts. A rune priest is only 100 pts. And you have to roll a d3 for each quickening and red rampage again, the second time you fight. The rune priest can even get up to 22 attacks, if he kills 5 models in the fight phase he can use his saga of the wolfkin warlord trait, which grants him another +1 attack. And with might of heroes from a space marine librarian its 24 attacks.
No, you dont roll for each Quickening and Red Rampage.
Quickening gives you extra attacks in the Fight Phase, not when you fight.
Red Rampage adds to your Attack Characteristic for the duration of the Fight Phase.
Plus the Rune Priest relies on a WC 7 power, so your failing half the time, not counting denies.
p5freak wrote: They still die like flies to mass bolter fire, SS doesnt help. A 28 pt. model with just T4 W1 is ridiculous. They only have pistols, 12" range. Company vets have the same stats, but better gear. Their max model size is only 6, though.
Yeah your right. Heck I dont even know why I put any models on the table anymore. If a model can die just dont play them anymore. Guess that means we shouldent play 40k at all anymore right? Any model you put on the table can die, so I guess were just gonna give up. Go ahead and start the facebook group of " models will die so dont play them " ill be the first to join your club.
U02dah4 wrote: SG+ terminators + FNP banner are certainly more survivable but will struggle to make there pts back and are very vulnerable to high AP (which is more common now) and also struggle with not hitting the board till t2 (T3) if you fail the charge.
This is why its so crucial to land the SG near a squad in range of those angelus boltguns and let em have it, then charge a different target in melee. Same with regular Terminators, let those storm bolters rip apart a squad when they land, then charge something juicy. A failed charge is bad, but at least SG get 3d6 charge from the strategem, and for regular terminators you could throw on 2 AC and use the stratagem they get to re roll all hits when they land.
Angelus boltguns are trash. More expensive and less effective stormbolters.
U02dah4 wrote: SG+ terminators + FNP banner are certainly more survivable but will struggle to make there pts back and are very vulnerable to high AP (which is more common now) and also struggle with not hitting the board till t2 (T3) if you fail the charge.
This is why its so crucial to land the SG near a squad in range of those angelus boltguns and let em have it, then charge a different target in melee. Same with regular Terminators, let those storm bolters rip apart a squad when they land, then charge something juicy. A failed charge is bad, but at least SG get 3d6 charge from the strategem, and for regular terminators you could throw on 2 AC and use the stratagem they get to re roll all hits when they land.
Angelus boltguns are trash. More expensive and less effective stormbolters.
You may have a point there, but calling them trash might be a bit too far. 2 pts each for angelus boltguns and maybe a little more range would fix them. Or maybe give them str 5.
they are trash. They are strictly worse than bolt rifles, which are free. S5 would at least let them touch things that SG generally want to get into melee with. 12” range hurts too. 18” would add a lot of options to them.
Bremon wrote: they are trash. They are strictly worse than bolt rifles, which are free. S5 would at least let them touch things that SG generally want to get into melee with. 12” range hurts too. 18” would add a lot of options to them.
True, but dont forget, range is not much of a factor for a deepstriking jump pack squad. A decent player who knows how to move a jump pack squad after deepstrike should never have an issue with range. They are overcosted due to them having jump packs and enhanced mobility, at least thats what I think GW decided about the points cost on them. But it is just speculation on my part.
Which is ridiculous. Redeploying a single model, or a 15 model DC squad costs the same ? WTF ?
Ordana wrote:No, you dont roll for each Quickening and Red Rampage.
Quickening gives you extra attacks in the Fight Phase, not when you fight.
Red Rampage adds to your Attack Characteristic for the duration of the Fight Phase.
Plus the Rune Priest relies on a WC 7 power, so your failing half the time, not counting denies.
True, you dont roll for red rampage, but you have to roll for quickening (which is also 7 to manifest, like the rune priests power). The psychic power grants you d3 additional attacks in the fight phase.
Crusaderobr wrote:A decent player who knows how to move a jump pack squad after deepstrike should never have an issue with range.
How does he do that ? Deepstrike happens at the end of the movement phase.
Most of the changes would be fine if jump marines weren't one of the most fragile units in the game on a per point basis. The BA army doesn't work, only cheesy characters protected by the magic character force field and the fact that snipers are mostly awful.
Bremon wrote: they are trash. They are strictly worse than bolt rifles, which are free. S5 would at least let them touch things that SG generally want to get into melee with. 12” range hurts too. 18” would add a lot of options to them.
Bolt rifles aren't really free, like bolt guns they are just built into the base cost of the Intercessors. ABGs can fire after Advancing which Bolt Rifles can't do although I admit you probably wouldn't want to very often.
Yeah, that’s a hell of an idea right there. Advance your SG so you can shoot garbage guns and not charge. Much better idea to use 1...err... 2 CP to redeploy if they’re that out of position and you’re desperate to kill 5 cultists or 2 marines. That way you can use another 2 CP, and maybe 1 extra to re roll a die, to get into CC with something. 5 CP is very little for a mono faction BA list; less than 40% of our total pool.
Bremon wrote: they are trash. They are strictly worse than bolt rifles, which are free. S5 would at least let them touch things that SG generally want to get into melee with. 12” range hurts too. 18” would add a lot of options to them.
True, but dont forget, range is not much of a factor for a deepstriking jump pack squad. A decent player who knows how to move a jump pack squad after deepstrike should never have an issue with range. They are overcosted due to them having jump packs and enhanced mobility, at least thats what I think GW decided about the points cost on them. But it is just speculation on my part.
As for positioning like “smart” marine player; Angelus boltguns are awful at killing the sorts of things you want SG to be killing. So “smart” positioning puts them in charge range of what they want to kill and shooting range of something softer. Then the 28% of the time that you fail your 3D6 charge leaves them stranded in range or more things than you’d like, and then the plasma gets them. Unless you’re investing further points into a relic banner SGA, jump pack priest, etc. I’m which case we are back to the Death Stars of ye olden days. “Movement after deep strike” basically doesn’t exist because your SG are usually crippled after the drop. Honestly not being able to fly into melee over chaff will likely be the most debilitating change to my lists.
Good grief Charlie Brown, between Bremon, sfpreak and Martel, I'm shocked we all don't suffer from some kind of depression. Look guys, a lot of us love BA for the sake of loving BA - let's find constructive ways to use the tools we have, rather than gripe about what we don't. I get it - we aren't Aeldari or Tau or whatever the new hotness is, and the GW nerf bat seems to over-target us. But let's focus on cool, viable builds like that VanVet, SS and LC build or ways to use our mobility in conjunction with a firebase to be competitive, if not overpowering. What are some unit combos that have been effective?
I for one, have found a firebase of a cheap captain, ancient, a deredeo with the pavise and either a full 3x5 or 2x5 chunk of hellblasters to be a darn near impossible brick of a firebase to move - with some decent mobility. And you get a CP for fielding it! Solid anti-tank or anti heavy infantry. Yea - not as good as DA, ok, but with my sang guard bouncing around them, the enemy had a tough time prioritizing targets.
I could see how adding some SS VanVets bouncing around the table would make for some tough, mobile units in addition to a tough firebase. That could be a pretty killer combo. Anyone else have something constructive to add?
The thread is 55 pages and we had a pretty empty tool box to start with. Everything fairly competent has already been discussed to death, and most new comments are comments on our nerfs or asking for reviews of the latest cancer soup list.
We all love BA, and have spent a ton of money, which is why we still play with our dumpster fire book.
“Add some ForgeWorld!” is a tip we’ve read a lot already.
keeblerartillery wrote: Good grief Charlie Brown, between Bremon, sfpreak and Martel, I'm shocked we all don't suffer from some kind of depression. Look guys, a lot of us love BA for the sake of loving BA - let's find constructive ways to use the tools we have, rather than gripe about what we don't. I get it - we aren't Aeldari or Tau or whatever the new hotness is, and the GW nerf bat seems to over-target us. But let's focus on cool, viable builds like that VanVet, SS and LC build or ways to use our mobility in conjunction with a firebase to be competitive, if not overpowering. What are some unit combos that have been effective?
I for one, have found a firebase of a cheap captain, ancient, a deredeo with the pavise and either a full 3x5 or 2x5 chunk of hellblasters to be a darn near impossible brick of a firebase to move - with some decent mobility. And you get a CP for fielding it! Solid anti-tank or anti heavy infantry. Yea - not as good as DA, ok, but with my sang guard bouncing around them, the enemy had a tough time prioritizing targets.
I could see how adding some SS VanVets bouncing around the table would make for some tough, mobile units in addition to a tough firebase. That could be a pretty killer combo. Anyone else have something constructive to add?
I enjoy my deredeo as well. Particularly against units with invuns where the ap isn't important. Hitting on 2s re-rolling 1s with that amount of S8 shots is very handy.
Punchy squishy units need to be cheap. BA are punchy and squishy, but not cheap. That's basically the whole story. Slam capt was a gimmick to cover this up.
Martel732 wrote: Punchy squishy units need to be cheap. BA are punchy and squishy, but not cheap. That's basically the whole story. Slam capt was a gimmick to cover this up.
Hello, i recently started BA and i am wondering if anyone tried to build list on mass scouts with knifes + buffers + some herohammering?
On paper they seems solid (many attacks, +1W etc.) for a unit that you can put 9' in front of enemy for quite cheap points. Seems to be good counter for guardsman/cultist horde (wounding them on CC on 2+) They can also put some bolt pistol shots once they will be tarpited with horde.
If you start you can put many of them into combat, forcing enemy to deal with them and giving you board control and time for your characters or death company to follow to deal real damage.
If you don't start you pop +1cover and have 3+ that should survive basic shooting but of course if table is flat things are grim in such situation, but you still get board control and can do objectives.
I am thinking about testing like 100 scouts + characters + DC or something, anyone tried that?
The problem with that is in big units they are vulnerable to moral and in small your going to lose a lot to overwatch with only a 4+
I've run 6 squads at most and I would go for shot guns if thats the strategy you intend they will do about as much damage but reduce the overwatch you face. Alternatively mix in some bolt gun for your second line. Storm bolter on sgt always
U02dah4 wrote: The problem with that is in big units they are vulnerable to moral and in small your going to lose a lot to overwatch with only a 4+
I've run 6 squads at most and I would go for shot guns if thats the strategy you intend they will do about as much damage but reduce the overwatch you face. Alternatively mix in some bolt gun for your second line. Storm bolter on sgt always
So maybe spliting them into multiple 5-squads? You avoid leadership issues and you got better chance to charge through ruins or something to avoid first overwatch. 20 x 5-man squads loaded with knifes and storm bolters on sgts should do the job. Also we can add inquisitor (greyfax is actually playable) to turn off overwatch aswel and boost ld to 10. But overwatch despite charging on punisher (you don't want to do that directly) or tau shouldnt be issue. Standard 10 man guards shots ~20 times, hiting 3-4, wounding 1-2, killing 0-1 scouts... And you have 8 s4 shots hiting 5-6, wounding 3-4 killing 2-3 guarsmans and then you charge and have 12 attacks hiting on 3 so 8, wounding on 2+ so 6-7 giving us 4-5 dead guardsman giving us total 6-8 kills and forcing them to run or use gem. Pretty solid for 55-57pts unit. And if you add rerols from cpt/lt it become even better.
You clear screen and then your smashcpts come into play... AND you score objectives from map. Bad of course if mission use kill points
I think i need to test it, but choppy scouts seems to be better for me than dakka ones with BA bonus. And this unit is cheap way to give bodies if you don't want to go with IG builds
Talk of scouts and the new first turn stratagem got me thinking. Would paying for camo cloaks on bolter or knife scouts be worth it now to give them a 2+ save on turn one regardless of their placement?
A unit you can deploy right in somebody's face, which is fairly threatening with +1 to wound, would need to be dealt with. A 2+ save would make them soak up quite a bit more fire, benefiting whatever is in your backfield.
Did camo cloaks just get a solid buff or are scouts still not worth spending any more points on?
I actually really like the idea. Definitely throw in the Sanguinor for the +1A aura.
Regarding overwatch: Just forlorn fury your smash captains into your scouts blob and charge with them to deny overwatch.
Characters can't get overwatched when they are not the closest unit right?
lash92 wrote: I actually really like the idea. Definitely throw in the Sanguinor for the +1A aura.
Regarding overwatch: Just forlorn fury your smash captains into your scouts blob and charge with them to deny overwatch.
Characters can't get overwatched when they are not the closest unit right?
Incorrect. Character protection does not extend to overwatch. However one of your captain hammers should take the angel’s wing which denies overwatch anyway.
Hi all. I've just got 10 intercessors to add to the 7 I just got not too long ago. How are you finding them? I take it they are better than Tactical's because I've had no luck with them at all? Also I'm considering the assault bolt rifle variant just to make them a little bit more mobile. Any advice on this?
I actually think they are quite useful. I would personally just run 1 or 2 5 man squads for grabbing and holding midfield objectives. Also I'm fan of the standard RF weapon.
Intercessors make great objective campers. I favour the rapid fire version with a grenade launcher in each squad. A Power sword for the sergeant is nice if you can spare the points.
The shooting is a definite improvement over a tactical squad and you have twice as many wounds. Stick them in cover where possible and you have a unit that is annoyingly hard to shift for 95 points unless your enemy willing to point significant firepower their way.
The problem is that the ravager will typically be rerolling 1s to hit because of the mandatory archon - and often rerolling 1s to wound. In which case you would expect to kill 4.53 Intercessors a go - which is pretty horrific.
Still ravagers will likely get nerfed in CA and Primaris/Marines in general might be buffed.
I'm in a similar position due to having 10 intercessors on my desk. I've made 5 up with the assault variant - but having second thoughts on the next 5.
I think the issue is windows. I am not impressed with the baseline rapid fire gun. Its better than tactical marines when shooting at targets with a 3+ or better save. Its worse versus Fire Warriors, guardsmen, ork boys etc.
The assault variant is better than tacticals outside of 12", and better than rapid fire Intercessors outside 15". Plus you can advance onto objectives (which is often critical) and still shoot (even if 10 S4 shots at 4+ to hit is impressing no one). So in theory if you are going to spend several turns at 15-24" this is the best weapon - even if its pretty bad.
But on the other hand being BA it seems logical to get in close and leverage that +1 to wound (especially with a powersword.) In which case you will be inside 15" for most of the game and the rapid fire comes into play. The rapid fire is also a lot better inside 15" - especially against 3+ armour.
The assault variant brings something vaguely different to the table - but unfortunately its so mediocre it probably isn't worth it. You are also locking in what is probably worth no more than 10~ points of shooting for 19 points, which is a bad deal. Really its not clear why they didn't just hand Primaris storm bolters.
Be intrigued to know why people like the grenade launcher too. I guess its just a 1 point upgrade so any upside is enough but the frag version seems terrible, and the krak is only "better" than the bolter if you are going to take punts at vehicles which are unlikely to result in anything.
I like the grenade launcher because:
1. It looks cool.
2. It's 1 point.
3. It brings my Intercessor squad to a nice, even 95 points (power sword + grenade), which makes the maths a little easier.
I use the assault variant. It shouldn’t be 1 point more expensive. Sometimes I miss the AP but it allows more flexible targeting and more rapid movement which is crucial when they can’t fit in a Razorback because reasons.
Of course it is, but soup is cancer and DW is just another example of GW taking special snowflakes and turning them into super special flakier snowflakes. Yay GW.
Hi all, I'm looking to get some advice on getting the best out of our stratagem's like forlorn fury(FF), upon wings of fire(UWOF) and lucifer pattern engines(LPE). These strat's give us a lot of potential's especially early on in the game IMHO but choosing the right unit's for them can be challenging for some.
My last list and a brief report/moan about my mistakes:
Spoiler:
I'm currently running BA and AM battallion's with a vanguard of BA also. This give's me plenty (14) CP to spend on them and I have no qualm's about spending them quickly and early.
Astorath,
Mephiston, Rage, shield, quickening.
3x5 intercessor's,
Company commander,
primaris psyker,
4x10 infantry squad's,
1 basilisk,
Sanguinary priest,
13 jump Death company, (UWOF)
8 Sanguinary guard,
Company ancient, warlord: 6" auto pass morale, relic banner,
Death company Dreadnought(DCD), (FF)
Flamestorm baal (LPE)
I fought ultramarine's hellblaster re-roll spam in a maelstrom of war deadlock mission and got blew off the table in turn 3 which isn't surprising upon reflection with the mistake's that I made. He deployed the 3 hell blaster's with the intercessor's and the scout's as speed bump's. This army is undefeated since he got it. He's that well drilled with it that he's even took Roboute out.
TURN 1
I got gave first turn and immediately FF the DCD who got a 3 for advance. At the start of my turn I lifted the DC using UWOF and advanced the Baal using LPE putting it a few inche's away from his DZ and popped smoke. I had unfortunately chosen to do this on the opposite flank from the DCD when they should've been together. I then advanced all the intercessor's and SG, mephiston, ancient, astorath and the Priest with none getting more than a 3. Keeping them close to try and benifit from Astorath's mass of doom next turn. The AM battallion hardly moved as they were on or close to 3 objective's. The DC then dropped in on his right next to the DCD. I then forgot my psychic phase which didn't help. With very little to shoot, this phase passed quickly. The basilisk did nothing of note (for the whole game) and other than some bolter's on the DC and DCD that was it. They all then charged and didn't wipe 2 unit's of intercessor's between them even with wisdom of the ancients. In his turn he cleared the dread and DC from his line's and moved up around his ancient and WL with a Lt assaulting from out of LOS and forcing the Baal to fall back in it's turn. TURN 2
I started with astorath and his mass of doom, Meph, Priest and SG all took MW's and only the intercessor's got any bonus (no 6's). Intercessor's move up into range supported with Meph and the banner. SG, Astorath and the priest charge in to his front line trying to kill unit's and character's for objective's. The baal fell back on the left flank. Meph was then out of range to shield or rage the SG and shielded some Intercessor's instead. The shooting took a few wound's off of some Hellblaster's but again nothing of note. The SG, Astorath and the SP all charged and ended up killing 2 squad's of intercessor's and a Lt. In his turn he fell back and killed the SG, Asorath, and the priest but it did take all of his shooting.
TURN3
Meph and the intercessor's then moved up with the baal and a squad of guard and cleard out his left flank of scout's, intercessor's and the Lt that charged the baal. Mephiston then shielded and raged some intercessor's who then charged and killed another couple of hellblasters. In his turn he then fell back and destroyed the baal, Banner/WL, Mephiston and all the intercessor's. This left nothing but guard and I called it here. He had 4 out of 5 of his character's left along with 1 squad of scout's and all 3 hellblaster unit's, 2 of which were halved.
Tldr:
I used FF on the DCD which did get it into CQC turn 1.
I used UWOF on the 13 DC which also made it.
I also used LPE on my flame baal. Which apart from the mentioned mistake's was in his face turn 1.
What I'm looking for is suggestion's you all have for the best/better use of these and indeed other strat's and what unit's they are best to use on.
Why did you use LPE on the baal pred ?? You must advance, which means you don't get to fire any weapons, because the baal pred has no assault weapons. LPE is pretty useless, waste of points. All it does is bringing the pred closer to it's doom. Your opponent can charge it, surround it. Or hit it with meltas at close range, which means more damage.
Don't use baal preds, don't use LPE offensively. Only as a defensive tool. Baal preds are overpriced, just like regular preds. And they can't use killshot. A mistake GW hasn't fixed in the BAFAQ, neither in the big FAQ 2.
Predators are trash, Baal Predators are even worse, LPE is a Hail Mary stratagem that’s limited in scope. At the point you need it you’ve likely already lost or your Baal Pred is already dead. My regular opponent and I have been switching armies to share the pain and wealth, FF has been a useful stratagem in one of the 4 instances it was used. I sure as hell don’t advocate for it, but at least it gets the question of “who is going to win?” out of the way even earlier.
Wings of Fire is still nice but I don’t use it nearly as much now that it’s 2 CP.
I have no expectations for us getting any love in CA but my fingers are crossed anyway.
I had intended for it to support the DC and DCD by being in his face and making him have to deal with it or leaving it close enough to him to cause problems turn 2 hence the 6+d6" advance and popping my smoke launcher's. Alas it didn't work this time as I moved it too close and he was able to engage it then ignore it before he destroyed it but I do want to try it again to see if I can get it to work better. The flamestorm cannon look's nasty against primaris so I was wanting to try it but as you all know it need's to be close. Maybe not as close as it was in turn 1 this time.
So if you all think the Baal is pure mince, I take it you would suggest dropping it altogether? Or just not bothering doing it this way?
Wings of fire is another ridiculous rule change. Why is it the same CP for a 1 model unit, and a 15 model unit ?
Yeah I agree but to DS 15 DC turn 1. Surely that's worth 2 cp even now? My issue is getting the support up and if the DCD doesn't do better soon I think I'll try FF on Lemartes.
I'm trying to throw as much as I can as quick as I can in order for the SG and character's to get in to melee. My problem,going the other way, is I keep failing my charge roll's from DS even with DOA and re-roll's from lemartes. So I'm trying everything not to use DS unless I can't avoid it.
You can't DS the support character for DC, though. It's more effective to have the character on the board, screen them with Rhinos and then DS the DC turn 2 or 3.
No but you can use FF on Lemartes and then UWOF the DC in the first turn or vice-versa. This pretty much guarantee's a first turn charge for both especially if you use DOA on 1 of them. It's not CP cheap but it's pretty nasty no?
Baal Pred is my favourite model in the BA range, I have two of them, and I don’t use them. That’s how trashy they are.
As for UWOF I wasn’t aware that still worked turn one. That said, FF, UWOF and DOA uses half a dozen CP to get 450+ points of DC into the face of chaff. Granted, they’ll eviscerate a ton of chaff but...yikes.
If you want to use "tanks", go with twin AC or twin LC razorbacks.
I don't really. T7 vehicle's with no invulnerable save are pretty much useless in this edition for me. This is my last throw of that particular dice just to see if I can get anything out of them before I move on.
However, I still like turn 2 better. That way, you are less likely to hit useless chaff.
I tried that but kept getting only chaff as we have good player's here who protect well and beyond turn 2.
I'm using this to clear chaff as firepower isn't working for me with my collection. DSing into assault is not actually that usefull when playing good player's and because this guy is good all you get to kill is chaff. This is to try and do as similar as possible without using DS.
Exactly, and when you’re dumping 200-300 points into DC you’re either spending way too many points or way too many CP (or both) relative to the points value of chaff yore chtting through. It’s a losing battle. Another reason why we could sure use Baal Predators that are worth a damn. Or you can run 3x asscan Razorbacks with DC in them and see how many make it to the front lines.
Morning everyone,
next year (around April I guess, we still have to figure out) I'm going to Nottingham for the second time. During my first visit I bought a fireraptor but I don't know what else I could buy to bolster my army. Any suggestion? According to warhammer community, we'll be the first army to get the cool looking dreadnoughts...
p5freak wrote: What are you talking about ? Warhammer Community and what dreadnoughts?
Some months ago, warhammer community released an article with some pictures regarding a contemptor with blood angels icons as well as the leviathan, along with a company champion (?) for the HH game.
-Mephy will be leaving a few lists. He’s still okay, but no longer great. Libby dread may replace him.
-Lemmy now makes a pretty efficient second-captain hammer.
-speaking of, cap hammer got a discount on his shield.
-All your sanguinary guard are now wielding “counts as power fists.” Any other weapon option is worse AND more expensive. Yes this pretty much proves that the rules writers are completely unaware of some of the unique BA stuff like blade encarmines.
-Sanguinor is closer to sanely costed. Still a wee bit high but, as before, if he’s buffing enough units, he can carry his points-weight.
-Dante is now playable. Not great, but playable.
-at this rate, drop pods will finally be reduced enough to see a table in CA 2021.
-from what I could tell in the guard section, infantry squads are not changed, and I see no marine scouts or tacticals either. This means if you were holding off on buying a set of loyal 32, go ahead and pull the trigger on it.
-sang ancient was already awesome at 99 after gear. Now with fist and angelus he can squeak in at 76!!! Sweet.
-Don’t see apothecaries or sang priests anywhere. Looks like it’s still just better to take their points worth in other units instead of gambling on the chance to heal.
Overall some of the changes seem really random and not well thought out. They still seem to be showing a lack of understanding of the game. But whatevs, we’ll just keep taking what they undercosted, ignoring what they overcosted, and have hope for next year.
Cataphractii being 3 points more than other variants is ridiculous. They pay for their 4++ by being slow as molasses.
SG with anything but power fists is just plain stupid. Wish I hadn’t built some with swords but it was a pain getting fists for 6 of them, let alone 10.
Upon closer inspection of Libby dread: 142 after wargear (assuming storm bolter.)
So cheaper than mephy’s old cost by 3, while mephy got nerfed, while gaining +2 T, +3 W, fixed 3 damage melee at ap4, and one/game smoke launch so that after his first charge, the enemy will have to deal with -1 to hit as they fall back and try shooting him down.
Obviously lost some stuff like 1 attack, 1 denial, and a point of armor save, along with mephy’s stock 5+ fnp, but overall I think it’s a great trade, and I think the Libby-naught will be the new right hand man for captain hammer in most competitive BA detachments.
Vets get a nice little reduction. Between their points drop and discount on shields they seem a little more attractive for my casual games. Im thinking 5+ shields and a hammer in two or three larger squads.. Roll em with a libby and discounted sanguinir for maximum attacks.
I like the reduction on vets. I had an idea of running three 2 model units of vets in a razorback with twin AC/LC, each equipped with SS, PG, SB, CS/PA. Three units on company vets means they could throw three krak grenades. A JP captain would follow them. This would be a vanguard detachment, and would greatly reduce your deployment count, its four units which count as one. Maybe add a company ancient with the standard of sacrifice for a 5+ FNP, and the ability to shoot/fight on 4+ after dying. It would be possible to run 4 of these in a 2k game, which isnt limited on the number of detachments.
p5freak wrote: I like the reduction on vets. I had an idea of running three 2 model units of vets in a razorback with twin AC/LC, each equipped with SS, PG, SB, CS/PA. Three units on company vets means they could throw three krak grenades. A JP captain would follow them. This would be a vanguard detachment, and would greatly reduce your deployment count, its four units which count as one. Maybe add a company ancient with the standard of sacrifice for a 5+ FNP, and the ability to shoot/fight on 4+ after dying. It would be possible to run 4 of these in a 2k game, which isnt limited on the number of detachments.
I'm gazing as well over my dreadnoughts. I'm having couple games today using the new CA points and mission formats. Especially the new (old) deployment system and scoring on end of every round sounds fresh.
I had already list in mind before the CA dropped, so it's just an alteration of it, although the same list would have costed 1097 points last friday, but now 999p.
Spoiler:
My 1k Blood Angels against Tau, Daemons of Nurgle and World eaters.. we are playing Highlander flavored new missions.
Sanguinary ancient, power fist, angelus boltgun, standard of sacrifice, warlord 6x sanguinary guard, all fists, angelus boltguns
Anyways, one thing I'm looking at again that I cerrtainly will test out in near future is those company vets with jump packs. I have always liked the fluffyness of deep striking assault squads with melta/plasma, but they are just too meh and expensive. Now with the company vet point drop, I'ts actually quite cheap to field a let's say 4man company vets with jump packs, 4x plasma and 1-2 storm shields (116p). With the melta and plasma points drops I want to test out if a 4man squad dropping in just before my capt Smash does the UWoF next to them before the charge. 8x overcharged plasma shots to something scary to either help soften the target capt Smash is aiming or putting some hurt on some counter-attack unit.
Those C-vets plasma/melta wise are just way much point efficient compared to drop podding something else even with the price drops on drop pods.
Our c&c dreads still lack the mobility and stormravens price is just too much in smaller than 2k games atleast in multiples..
Does anyone think that heavy flamers, flamestorm cannons are still way too expensive? And why on sword encarmines are still 12p when power fist is 9......
I'm thinking about how to use VV vets in various ways. I like them better than DC right now.
You get a Vet with JP and SS for 19ppm know. Throw in the cheaper Sang Ancient with the Relic banner and you have a quite durable unit with 3++ / 5 +++.
p5freak wrote: I like the reduction on vets. I had an idea of running three 2 model units of vets in a razorback with twin AC/LC, each equipped with SS, PG, SB, CS/PA. Three units on company vets means they could throw three krak grenades. A JP captain would follow them. This would be a vanguard detachment, and would greatly reduce your deployment count, its four units which count as one. Maybe add a company ancient with the standard of sacrifice for a 5+ FNP, and the ability to shoot/fight on 4+ after dying. It would be possible to run 4 of these in a 2k game, which isnt limited on the number of detachments.
How does Rule of Three factor in to that?
The rule of three is only a suggestion for organised play, it is not a matched play rule. My idea obviously wouldnt work at a tournament. It would be for casual play at the FLGS, where we usually dont play with the rule of three.
I agree that company vets with their point reductions for them, and some of their weapons, look better than DC right now.
Does anyone think that heavy flamers, flamestorm cannons are still way too expensive? And why on sword encarmines are still 12p when power fist is 9......
I think land speeders with twin heavy flamers look viable now. Its 78 points for one. Use a unit of three, and they can move 20".
Astorath, Lemartes, The Sanguinor, and Dante all got cheaper and much more attractive (though I'm still not shoe-horning Dante into my lists)
I like the CA changes because it makes Blood Angels more playable the way I personally prefer to play them: Cool, powerful melee characters and fast, elite hammer units being supported by...whatever.
Martel732 wrote: Dante is pretty dope with big ticket units like stormravens and land raiders.
Yeah, my current question is: build the 2nd Stormraven that's been in a box on my shelf for 3+ years, or build 10 more Sanguinary Guard. Both units feel like having only one in the list isn't enough...
I like something like 6 angelus and 3 infernus atm. I don't want to ever tempt myself on something as expensive as SG. The infernus pistols have helped me nuke something in shooting and the be able to charge a new target. Angelus bolters are cool just because I typically start my SG on the table and so they advance up the board with the 5+++ dude.
Bremon wrote: Plasma on SG will screw you over. A few inferno is all you need.
I’m bummed that plasma is dropping everywhere but Hellblasters don’t seem to be touched.
hellblasters are really great, especially for BA. I dont think a drop is warranted. I love to run a 10 man squad with a primaris CPT, the relic banner and an apothecary of I have the points. You can even throw in an LT to really make them shine. Its a lot of points, but it's worth it.
Bremon wrote: Plasma on SG will screw you over. A few inferno is all you need.
I’m bummed that plasma is dropping everywhere but Hellblasters don’t seem to be touched.
hellblasters are really great, especially for BA. I dont think a drop is warranted. I love to run a 10 man squad with a primaris CPT, the relic banner and an apothecary of I have the points. You can even throw in an LT to really make them shine. Its a lot of points, but it's worth it.
It really isn’t. That’s a quarter of your list for 10 plasma shots at long range, and 10 at short range since at least half of them will be dead by the time you’re within 15”.
Plasma cannon devastators were better than Hellblasters before and that certainly continues to be the case now that mini marine plasma is cheaper. Plus they have ablative wounds. Hellblasters are a perfect target for enemy shooting, just like aggressors. Soft, expensive, and they give up firepower efficiency in direct proportion to the casualties they take.
Intercessors are still the only Primaris worth a damn until we get better transports for them (why can’t they ride in other marine transports for gods sake; it’s not like a wave serpent believably holds 12 eldar).
Bremon wrote: Plasma on SG will screw you over. A few inferno is all you need.
I’m bummed that plasma is dropping everywhere but Hellblasters don’t seem to be touched.
hellblasters are really great, especially for BA. I dont think a drop is warranted. I love to run a 10 man squad with a primaris CPT, the relic banner and an apothecary of I have the points. You can even throw in an LT to really make them shine. Its a lot of points, but it's worth it.
It really isn’t. That’s a quarter of your list for 10 plasma shots at long range, and 10 at short range since at least half of them will be dead by the time you’re within 15”.
Plasma cannon devastators were better than Hellblasters before and that certainly continues to be the case now that mini marine plasma is cheaper. Plus they have ablative wounds. Hellblasters are a perfect target for enemy shooting, just like aggressors. Soft, expensive, and they give up firepower efficiency in direct proportion to the casualties they take.
Intercessors are still the only Primaris worth a damn until we get better transports for them (why can’t they ride in other marine transports for gods sake; it’s not like a wave serpent believably holds 12 eldar).
So there are two things perhaps you are not conisidering:
1) The banner allows the marines who die the possibility to shoot before they go, which means you have the potential for more shots
2) The relic banner makes this unit extremely durable. While it is a massive points investment, the 5+++ keeps those multi wound models alive, which boosts the overall survivability of the army.
I honestly never run the LT, as that wound reroll isn't really worth the points to me, and I only sometimes run the Apothecary. The Primaris Captain, Primaris Ancient, and Hellblasters x 10 was clocking in at 495 previously, which has been reduced a bit. I also tend to drop a unit of intercessors near this blob in order to benefit from the aura's and to draw fire away from the hellblasters. The other beauty with these guys being BA, is that they aren't completely inept should close combat come their way, although that isn't really ideal.
My banner is busy on my warlord buffing 8-12 Sanguinary Guard who have a better size, more mobility, and more tools at their disposal. That ancient also has a power fist and a weapon worth shooting, unlike the Primaris ancient. Sanguinary Guard don’t kill themselves. They have more tools at their disposal.
Apothecaries are a waste of points at this point because they’re never going to achieve anything for you that having more models in the first place wouldn’t have done better.
As for the potential for more shots... 50% chance of getting a shot off before they’re eliminated from the game is less preferential to a unit that has disposable bodies that I don’t have to roll dice on. Hellblasters aren’t good, unless you’re playing Dark Imperium and overcharging them to cook Plague Marines.
The only way I would run hellies in a serious game is in a fortification like a bastion, and with dark angel tactics so they can reroll 1’s without a captain.
And that being said I would still probably not run that given a serious game.
Dark Angels Primaris are far more functional than ours. Built in captain rerolls and morale protection so you can run max blobs
of Hellblasters to maximize weapons of the dark age, and the innate captain reroll for static units to buff HB or Aggressors while not worrying about morale nearly as much.
Meanwhile our HB get +1 to wound in combat. “Hell yeah!”. Slightly better on aggressors but still functionally worthless because they’re so fragile and have so few attacks.
Wow! much hate for Hellblaster's. I'm surprised. My bud has 3x7 with UM chapter master, occasionally bobby g, and a relic banner and there's nothing we can throw at it that sticks. It's brutal. To the point where it's rendered any vehicle without T8 and ++ useless.
Anyway.....
With CA2018 upon us I'm taking this time to de-index option my forces and I'm looking for advice on what to do with the 12 Jump vet's that I currently have. With the rumoured drop for VV's I'm thinking that this is the best place for them to go. I have 5 with Mk4 JP's so I would like to do 5 and 7 man unit's of VV. I already have 5 vet's on foot so that base is covered.
I'm looking for suggestion's on equipment in light of new point's before I start chopping.
The 5 man unit all have SS's at the moment and nothing in the other hand's. I'm thinking either a TH or RB(relic blade) for the sarge although I'm tempted to go for 5xTH+SS on the whole squad as I don't own termies anymore. If I go TH, on the sarge, then I think it'll be 2xPS(power sword) and 2xCS(Chainsword) on the other guy's. However If I go with the RB then I'm thinking that 2xPF and 2xCS would probably be best. Any one tried 5xTH+SSVV's?
For the 7 man unit all of their hand's are empty at the moment. I have 5 SS's available but not on them and Ideally I don't want 2 near identical unit's but I will if it's recommended enough. I'm considering maybe 2 or 3 SS's and maybe a TH or PF but I'm also looking at some 2x PP's and/or a couple of guy's with PP+CS to make up for the loss of some drop plasma. Any tip's on PP's in VV's from anyone?
Any idea's, suggestion's or advice is appreciated.
Re: ultramarines; they have access to the chapter master stratagem and better babysitter named characters; our CM buff comes attached to an overpriced (even at 175) character hunter with a jump pack attached who can’t hunt characters as well as a smash captain does.
Re; VV, I would make a pile of double plasma cowboys, sprinkle in some shields, and a couple fists as charge deterrent. Fists are cheap, hammers will be a waste on a unit that’s mostly shooting, and with massed pistols you can accomplish something on the drop without burning CP
SG with PF (and a few inferno pistols), a sang ancient with PF, and the relic standard of sacrifice, he is your warlord. Instead of taking the sanguinor (who isnt worth the points, IMHO) just max your SG. Mephiston (who is worth the points), or any other librarian (with JP), could cast unleash rage on them, for +1 attack. Astorath could use his mass of doom on them.
Yeah that’s basically covered. All power fists; a few inferno pistols in a max squad. SG ancient warlord with relic banner. JP librarian to unleash rage. That’s it. Don’t take plasma. Don’t take swords. For the love of god don’t take axes.
"Wow! much hate for Hellblaster's. I'm surprised. My bud has 3x7 with UM chapter master, occasionally bobby g, and a relic banner and there's nothing we can throw at it that sticks. It's brutal. To the point where it's rendered any vehicle without T8 and ++ useless."
That list loses instantly to Drukhari. Try throwing dissy cannons. They'll stick.
Martel732 wrote: "Wow! much hate for Hellblaster's. I'm surprised. My bud has 3x7 with UM chapter master, occasionally bobby g, and a relic banner and there's nothing we can throw at it that sticks. It's brutal. To the point where it's rendered any vehicle without T8 and ++ useless."
That list loses instantly to Drukhari. Try throwing dissy cannons. They'll stick.
Many lists will theoretically always "loses instantly" to a specific list or build. Based on that, no one should ever play any of those lists, right?
Because PF will be dropped to 9 pts on next saturday, cheaper than axe and sword, and its S*2, AP-3, DD3. And with the sang ancient as your warlord your SG will re-roll all failed hit rolls.
p5freak wrote: Because PF will be dropped to 9 pts on next saturday, cheaper than axe and sword, and its S*2, AP-3, DD3. And with the sang ancient as your warlord your SG will re-roll all failed hit rolls.
Remember that even re-rolling all failed hits does not allow you to re-roll 3's, as re-rolls happen before modifiers. So 3's are hits until the PF -1 kicks in after a re-roll has occurred.
-1 to hit. You already get +1 to wound in the first round of combat.
Is it due to the current Knight situation?
Against T3 swords win. Against T4 it’s the same. T5 and above fists win. Against T8 it’s 3+ vs 5+. Swords are more expensive in a couple days. What are you hunting with SG that’s only T3? What’s T3 that you’re hunting that assault cannons or death company can’t handle for you instead?Fists every time. Swords have a use case against Heretics so you can explode 6s, but you’re still generally better off with fists.
SG are flying vanilla termies with no invuln, and a price discount. They’re not great, but they’re one of the best things we have.
p5freak wrote: Because PF will be dropped to 9 pts on next saturday, cheaper than axe and sword, and its S*2, AP-3, DD3. And with the sang ancient as your warlord your SG will re-roll all failed hit rolls.
Remember that even re-rolling all failed hits does not allow you to re-roll 3's, as re-rolls happen before modifiers. So 3's are hits until the PF -1 kicks in after a re-roll has occurred.
This is true. 3s are dead. Just like 2s are dead on a smash captain. The re roll system in this game is pretty stupid.
Would a mixture of PFs and swords work for SG? Some flexibility but pfist SGs and a sang priest wounding knights or land raiders on 2s is pretty attractive.
When they were the same cost I preferred to run two squads. Swords hunter heavy infantry and fists hunted tanks and monsters. If there were T8 targets the priest accompanied the fists otherwise he’d follow the swords. Ancient warlord and librarian are more crucial for rerolling 1s to wound, hits, 5+++ and +1 attack.
After CA I really wish SG could take a shield lol. A 3++ for a point less than a trash Angelus sure would be slick.
p5freak wrote: SG with PF (and a few inferno pistols), a sang ancient with PF, and the relic standard of sacrifice, he is your warlord. Instead of taking the sanguinor (who isnt worth the points, IMHO) just max your SG. Mephiston (who is worth the points), or any other librarian (with JP), could cast unleash rage on them, for +1 attack. Astorath could use his mass of doom on them.
I am actually tempted to make one of the SG my Warlord. I lose out on the Trait but I think it might be worth it to ensure that the SG are guaranteed full rerolls at all times.
That’s an interesting idea I’ve never thought of before. It’s a shame that we have to compromise that way thanks to “models within 6”” vs “units within 6”” but might be worth testing out regardless!
Martel732 wrote: "Wow! much hate for Hellblaster's. I'm surprised. My bud has 3x7 with UM chapter master, occasionally bobby g, and a relic banner and there's nothing we can throw at it that sticks. It's brutal. To the point where it's rendered any vehicle without T8 and ++ useless."
That list loses instantly to Drukhari. Try throwing dissy cannons. They'll stick.
Many lists will theoretically always "loses instantly" to a specific list or build. Based on that, no one should ever play any of those lists, right?
I was providing an example of something that would "stick". That being said, none of the optimal targets for hellblasters are meta threats. So why use them?
Martel732 wrote: "Wow! much hate for Hellblaster's. I'm surprised. My bud has 3x7 with UM chapter master, occasionally bobby g, and a relic banner and there's nothing we can throw at it that sticks. It's brutal. To the point where it's rendered any vehicle without T8 and ++ useless."
That list loses instantly to Drukhari. Try throwing dissy cannons. They'll stick.
Many lists will theoretically always "loses instantly" to a specific list or build. Based on that, no one should ever play any of those lists, right?
I was providing an example of something that would "stick". That being said, none of the optimal targets for hellblasters are meta threats. So why use them?
Because tactics involve more than just the meta? Because the meta can always change with an FAQ or a supplement release? Because it could be fun and fluffy for a Primaris BA army? There are a plethora of reasons to use and discuss various units. By your logic, we should ignore anything that doesn't win major events, which means that BA shouldn't be discussed at all...
Maybe you haven’t noticed but BA haven’t really been discussed at all for months and months. This thread is a graveyard outside of when we get updated rules 3 times a year, which ironically seems to make us play worse with each update. Power fist intercessor sergeants are about the best thing GW has done for us in a year and I’m not even sure we have access to them. Meanwhile 3 FAQs and 2 CA later it seems our garbage units are still garbage, rules still aren’t clarified, and our ways to win games keep decreasing.
I think you’ll find most of us left here are here because we like our models and want to have fun but those reasons make for a pretty piss poor tactics thread.
I mean tactically there is no change take smashy HQ + scouts add to another army. Anything else is fun idea wise but will never be even tier 2. Its also why my BA need dusting.
Actually there are a lot of new ba builds coming I think. Just none involve hellblasters. I don't find them fluffy at all, because they are best vs other imperials. They are terrible anti-xeno so why would ba even bother? The imperium is not the enemy.
Hellblasters needed to be armed with -2 ap autocannons to be useful vs xenos.
If assault plasma incinerators functioned more like stormbolters, with better strength and AP but worse than standard incinerators i’d crack open the box of ten I have sitting in the basement.
Re: builds not much is changing for me. Doubling down on more SG, while Intercessors definitively push Tacs out of my lists. I might drop down to one battalion instead of two and try to rely on less stratagem gimmicks. My beloved Baal Preds will stay parked on the shelf. DC likely won’t see action. Hellblasters won’t. Some Devs will remain. No termies. No veterans. Likely no bikes but I might experiment with them some more.
Are we really in that weak spot? I don't think so, not the top tier, but in any non-ultra competitive setting we should have a chance anyway and who would ever want to have an army which has the best win ratio on major events.
I still need to test those dreads on christmas holidays, but atleast my list builds now have one fragioso for testing. BA special units I think Lemartes is worth the points, SG ancient for sure, SG with the points drop is very valid atleast in my meta, I think almost every game my opponent has said that my SG blob was my MvP. In friendlies I just drop the storm shield from my Cpt Slam to inferno pistol to avoid TFG. Also I'm still gathering more data on validness of jump packed Cvets with the points drop. DC is still of the menu. Now with the points drops on plasma I will try out twin plasma cannon heavy bolter variant (hurricanes if I have to points) for cheapest transport for Librarian dread/DC dread.. Hardest thing is to decide do I embark something else in it. Also primaris intercerssors with a power sword feel a lot more attractive as a mandatory troop choice.
One more thing, I don't know why on earth I haven't fielded power axes if I have the points more often than power sword. In my latest experiments wounds meq/chaff on 2 and DG on 3 in a volume of attacks has been better that -3 AP, but should do some real mathammering to see if it's really a true input. Not every enemy have a 3+..
I had good success with a combi plasma on my captain slammy and +1 to damage on it from artisan of war. Deepstrike, overcharge, re-roll 1s to hit, usually wounding on 2s or 3s, and 3 damage per wound. If the target is still alive, charge it and use the hammer to finish it off. I will play company vets with PG and SS, they got a nice point reduction, and their weapons as well. Dreads may come back as well.
Xirax wrote: Are we really in that weak spot? I don't think so, not the top tier, but in any non-ultra competitive setting we should have a chance anyway and who would ever want to have an army which has the best win ratio on major events.
I still need to test those dreads on christmas holidays, but atleast my list builds now have one fragioso for testing. BA special units I think Lemartes is worth the points, SG ancient for sure, SG with the points drop is very valid atleast in my meta, I think almost every game my opponent has said that my SG blob was my MvP. In friendlies I just drop the storm shield from my Cpt Slam to inferno pistol to avoid TFG. Also I'm still gathering more data on validness of jump packed Cvets with the points drop. DC is still of the menu. Now with the points drops on plasma I will try out twin plasma cannon heavy bolter variant (hurricanes if I have to points) for cheapest transport for Librarian dread/DC dread.. Hardest thing is to decide do I embark something else in it. Also primaris intercerssors with a power sword feel a lot more attractive as a mandatory troop choice.
One more thing, I don't know why on earth I haven't fielded power axes if I have the points more often than power sword. In my latest experiments wounds meq/chaff on 2 and DG on 3 in a volume of attacks has been better that -3 AP, but should do some real mathammering to see if it's really a true input. Not every enemy have a 3+..
The minute you have to preface with non-ultra competative setting that means your in a weak spot compared to others. That doesn't mean a cherrypicked unit can't compete but your an adendum to something else not the main show.
Martel732 wrote: Actually there are a lot of new ba builds coming I think. Just none involve hellblasters. I don't find them fluffy at all, because they are best vs other imperials. They are terrible anti-xeno so why would ba even bother? The imperium is not the enemy.
Hellblasters needed to be armed with -2 ap autocannons to be useful vs xenos.
Bremon wrote: Axes are a foolish choice on SG. Or anything else. Even moreso after Saturday.
I didn't say encarmine.. Fists are to go choice for sure on SG. Sergeants, lieutenants etc who I might give a power sword if I have the spare points..
As for ultra-comp , how many of us are aiming on BAO etc biggest GT too tables where you play TFG cheese when you just look for the most broken units and combo's waiting to be nerfed next FAQ/CA..
Bremon wrote: Axes are a foolish choice on SG. Or anything else. Even moreso after Saturday.
I didn't say encarmine.. Fists are to go choice for sure on SG. Sergeants, lieutenants etc who I might give a power sword if I have the spare points..
As for ultra-comp , how many of us are aiming on BAO etc biggest GT too tables where you play TFG cheese when you just look for the most broken units and combo's waiting to be nerfed next FAQ/CA..
Running our characters with anything that doesn’t do multiple damage is never a good idea imo.
Against MEQ/DG you won’t find a difference between axe and sword statistically, only anecdotally. The only thing the ace is going to help you with over a sword against DG is beating on plagueburst crawlers, thanks to wasted AP due to invuln and T8. Otherwise against the other daemon engines, same story again; sword doesn’t pierce armour better and axe doesn’t help you wound easier.
Martel732 wrote: Actually there are a lot of new ba builds coming I think. Just none involve hellblasters. I don't find them fluffy at all, because they are best vs other imperials. They are terrible anti-xeno so why would ba even bother? The imperium is not the enemy.
Hellblasters needed to be armed with -2 ap autocannons to be useful vs xenos.
What builds for example? (Genuinely interested)
Lists with vv, repulsors, land raiders and dante. I dont have the book yet, so havent formalized anything.
I’m incredibly skeptical of a resurgence of Land Raiders, Repulsors, or Dante. A few weeks of experimenting, sure, but a month after CA the only things we will see more of are VV. Dante doesn’t jive with a bodyguard unit that can achieve his buffs elsewhere, can’t hunt characters all that well, and has no place buffing a gunline. He’s 175 points of multiple personality disorder.
Automatically Appended Next Post: VV shield and pistol cowboys are a possibility but our biggest buff was power fists for intercessor sergeants.
UWOF can mitigate that problem a bit right? Costs CP but he can first turn buff a gunline then deepstrike up with a SG/VV thats assaulting in. Next turn He could then forseeably move back and provide buffs to mobile vehicles or assault in depending what the game dictates. Sounds pretty flexible to me in theory. LRs and repulsors have potms right so maybe you dont even need to use UWOF just move up the board and DOA in
That’s the problem with theory crafting on this forum though; you run out of CP pretty quick if you want to run mono faction BA. Now that UWOF is 2CP it uses nearly a third of your CP to bounce twice. There are so many other things you want to do;
Descent of Angels: 2CP, you might even use this twice
Forlorn Fury: 2CP... if you don’t use this (I don’t) you’re almost guaranteed to use DOA if you run DC.
That leaves 3 solid options for DOA: SG, Capt Slam, and DC.
Red Rampage; 1CP. You’re almost certain to use this at least once.
OIDDDE/Honour the Chapter: 2/3CP; you’re likely using this to crack the enemy’s most crucial target.
DVoS: pretty popular option. I don’t use it much but it’s common.
Using UWOF twice among the rest of that leaves you pretty much 0 tactical rerolls, which I use for rerolling critical saves or rerolling damage rolls of 1 in disappointing moments of lascannon and missile launcher firepower, let alone the chunk of time you need a reroll to make DOA actually work, or Unleash Rage to pop off to make SG functional.
I think bikes might be the best choice for FA after their points drop. I don’t believe Inceptors changed. Hopefully in the next six months we get wave 2 of Primaris and get a real FA jump pack Primaris that can handle melee properly.
p5freak wrote: With the point reductions we can easily use a brigade or two battalions (at 2k) if we need more CP.
What are you thining for the FA slot. Does anyone know if inceptors are getting changed?
Inceptors are unchanged. Scout bikers dropped two points, they are now 71 pts. for 22 bolter like shots at 12". And land speeders dropped quite a lot. One with twin heavy flamer is now 78 pts. Or 70 with twin HB.
Bremon wrote: I’m incredibly skeptical of a resurgence of Land Raiders, Repulsors, or Dante. A few weeks of experimenting, sure, but a month after CA the only things we will see more of are VV. Dante doesn’t jive with a bodyguard unit that can achieve his buffs elsewhere, can’t hunt characters all that well, and has no place buffing a gunline. He’s 175 points of multiple personality disorder.
Automatically Appended Next Post: VV shield and pistol cowboys are a possibility but our biggest buff was power fists for intercessor sergeants.
Dante isn't for SG. He's a full reroll bubble that moves 12" Dante kills characters better than you might think. He's not for buffing a gunline. He buffs an advancing line. Repulsor overwatch is brutal with Dante. I'll know more in a couple months.
Dante isn't for SG. He's a full reroll bubble that moves 12" Dante kills characters better than you might think. He's not for buffing a gunline. He buffs an advancing line. Repulsor overwatch is brutal with Dante. I'll know more in a couple months.
Dante still isnt worth the points. Not even in an advancing gunline. Captn slamguinius does everything better than dante, even with only re-rolls of 1. He is also 50 points cheaper. It would be different if dante would add 1 or 2 CPs, like other leaders from other factions do. Repulsors suck.
Slam isnt buffing much. And dantes full reroll will assist that overwatch much more. Coupled with fly keyword and the -2 to charges against, it may make people think before charging atleast. The crazy dakka should Scale well with the full reroll. Im curious if itll work! Dont have the bills to try it tho lol
Guys how about a suicide vanguard veteran jump pack unit with double plasma pistols and the sergent with SS and plasma pistol aswell?
I still have them in the box and plenty of plasma pistols from the DC sprue I'd like to find a use for.
Bremon wrote: I’m incredibly skeptical of a resurgence of Land Raiders, Repulsors, or Dante. A few weeks of experimenting, sure, but a month after CA the only things we will see more of are VV. Dante doesn’t jive with a bodyguard unit that can achieve his buffs elsewhere, can’t hunt characters all that well, and has no place buffing a gunline. He’s 175 points of multiple personality disorder.
Automatically Appended Next Post: VV shield and pistol cowboys are a possibility but our biggest buff was power fists for intercessor sergeants.
Dante isn't for SG. He's a full reroll bubble that moves 12" Dante kills characters better than you might think. He's not for buffing a gunline. He buffs an advancing line. Repulsor overwatch is brutal with Dante. I'll know more in a couple months.
I’m well aware Dante isn’t for SG. I stated as much in the post you quoted. I was solely reminiscing on the idea that BA Honour Guard used to be a thing, then transitioned to SG, and is now just another mechanic that other chapters do better than we do.
I don’t see your repulsor overwatch coming to fruition much, full rerolls of overwatch is still worse than 5+ overwatch would be. Keep us filled in though. He’d certainly help standard shooting. An advancing gunline... sure. I just don’t see him doing things better than captain smash, especially for the points. Any anyone with S6 and D3 damage isn’t hunting the more dangerous characters around. If you want him to pick off a librarian or something though, sure, go nuts.
Maybe when Dante gets the latest HGH, cortisone and collagen injections he’ll be a much improved Primaris marine and will have a true purpose.
Spado wrote: Guys how about a suicide vanguard veteran jump pack unit with double plasma pistols and the sergent with SS and plasma pistol aswell?
I still have them in the box and plenty of plasma pistols from the DC sprue I'd like to find a use for.
How about not ? Plasma pistols are 5 each. A plasma gun is 11 for company veterans and has twice the range, can fire twice at 12". And you can pick a chainsword for melee, for free. Only downside is company vets are 5 models max.
Tpiddy wrote: Slam isnt buffing much. And dantes full reroll will assist that overwatch much more. Coupled with fly keyword and the -2 to charges against, it may make people think before charging atleast. The crazy dakka should Scale well with the full reroll. Im curious if itll work! Dont have the bills to try it tho lol
In an army of BS “full rerolls” isn’t as impressive as it sounds. Overwatch with a repulsor or aggressors might be the sole exception. Overwatch goes from 16% efficiency to 30%. So outside of overwatch a Captain buffs 1s instead of 1s and 2s, and you can almost get a lieutenant for wound rolls of 1 for the same value with more flexibility.
Spado wrote: Guys how about a suicide vanguard veteran jump pack unit with double plasma pistols and the sergent with SS and plasma pistol aswell?
I still have them in the box and plenty of plasma pistols from the DC sprue I'd like to find a use for.
How about not ? Plasma pistols are 5 each. A plasma gun is 11 for company veterans and has twice the range, can fire twice at 12". And you can pick a chainsword for melee, for free. Only downside is company vets are 5 models max.
But I need a rhino to carry them around since they can't get jump pack
Bremon wrote: I’m incredibly skeptical of a resurgence of Land Raiders, Repulsors, or Dante. A few weeks of experimenting, sure, but a month after CA the only things we will see more of are VV. Dante doesn’t jive with a bodyguard unit that can achieve his buffs elsewhere, can’t hunt characters all that well, and has no place buffing a gunline. He’s 175 points of multiple personality disorder.
Automatically Appended Next Post: VV shield and pistol cowboys are a possibility but our biggest buff was power fists for intercessor sergeants.
Dante isn't for SG. He's a full reroll bubble that moves 12" Dante kills characters better than you might think. He's not for buffing a gunline. He buffs an advancing line. Repulsor overwatch is brutal with Dante. I'll know more in a couple months.
I'm with ya on what Dante is, a super mobile reroll buff. Makes me want to field twin lascannon razor backs filled with sternguard vets now that both of those units have dropped in price. Good thing I have too many irons in the fire to actually paint up that list.
Wrong. BA company veterans can get JP by the designers commentary last page, allowing them to use index gear.
Is what you are saying now somewhere in the index or inside our codex?
Company veterans could use JP in the index. That option has been removed in the codex. But the last page of the designers commentary allows then to use wargear from the index that isnt present in the codex.
Wrong. BA company veterans can get JP by the designers commentary last page, allowing them to use index gear.
Is what you are saying now somewhere in the index or inside our codex?
Company veterans could use JP in the index. That option has been removed in the codex. But the last page of the designers commentary allows then to use wargear from the index that isnt present in the codex.
Is that designers commentary in the index? I can't find it in the codex.
Zuri Prime wrote: Howdy folks! If you had to pick a jump chaplain or jump sanguinary priest to babysit some sanguinary guard, which would you choose?
Chaplain gives them a reroll they should be getting from the warlord. Priest makes them S5 with swords and 10 with fists, and can heal them. Priest is the obvious choice in my opinion.
I’d consider rethinking this approach. A 4 damage hammer is nice but a 120 point hunter killer missile that doesn’t give away slay the warlord is nicer. Sanguinary Ancient is a really nice warlord if you want to run a big blob of SG and the relic banner.
Zuri Prime wrote: Howdy folks! If you had to pick a jump chaplain or jump sanguinary priest to babysit some sanguinary guard, which would you choose?
Chaplain gives them a reroll they should be getting from the warlord. Priest makes them S5 with swords and 10 with fists, and can heal them. Priest is the obvious choice in my opinion.
I would also lean towards Priest as I think he gives more value to the SG. Wounding T8 Knights on a 4+ with Swords and a 2+ with fists is quite tasty.
I’d consider rethinking this approach. A 4 damage hammer is nice but a 120 point hunter killer missile that doesn’t give away slay the warlord is nicer. Sanguinary Ancient is a really nice warlord if you want to run a big blob of SG and the relic banner.
I am actually considering making one of the SG my Warlord. You lose out on the Warlord Trait but it means the SG are guaranteed full rerolls 100% of the time. That in itself is quite handy.
Pf intercessor sgts are a tempting idea. 9 more point than I'd like to spend over a chainsword, and five more that a neat -3 ap stinger. Is there any solid way to get Primaris powerfists aside from the Imperial Fists upgrade sprue?
Edit: I'm not seeing where BA Intercessors can take PFs, is it in a newer FAQ?
New data sheet in CA’18. I used power fists from my BAtac squads. Fists on tac marines are so comically oversized that they look pretty much perfect on Intercessors. I suspect 3 S8 attacks at +1 to wound is enough to make some units that bully Intercessors think twice, especially if you run a pair of units to support each other.
Even in the codex they didn’t have to sacrifice their rifle to take a chainsword, or power sword in the FAQ. Wouldn’t expect power fist to be any different.
Sanguinary Ancient [6 PL, 76pts]: 4. Heroic Bearing, Angelus boltgun, Power fist, Standard of Sacrifice, Warlord
Sanguinary Guard [20 PL, 300pts] . Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Power fist
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Power fist
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Power fist
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Power fist
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Power fist
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Power fist
. Sanguinary Guard: Inferno pistol, Power fist
. Sanguinary Guard: Inferno pistol, Power fist
. Sanguinary Guard: Inferno pistol, Power fist
+ Heavy Support +
Devastator Squad [11 PL, 142pts]: Armorium Cherub
. Space Marine: Boltgun
. Space Marine: Heavy bolter
. Space Marine: Plasma cannon
. Space Marine: Missile launcher
. Space Marine: Boltgun
. Space Marine: Boltgun
. Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun
Devastator Squad [11 PL, 142pts]: Armorium Cherub
. Space Marine: Boltgun
. Space Marine: Heavy bolter
. Space Marine: Plasma cannon
. Space Marine: Missile launcher
. Space Marine: Boltgun
. Space Marine: Boltgun
. Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun
Devastator Squad [11 PL, 142pts]: Armorium Cherub
. Space Marine: Boltgun
. Space Marine: Heavy bolter
. Space Marine: Plasma cannon
. Space Marine: Missile launcher
. Space Marine: Boltgun
. Space Marine: Boltgun
. Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun
I’ve tried 15-20 of them with corbulo and a SGA warlord with FNP banner. It was reasonable, and I was able to fly the Ancient away to the deep strike SG squad afterwards. A daemon princes ran ruckus on them once but I’m quite confident that would happen less now with 4 power fist sergeants ready to destroy him.
Interesting, especially since you can use it in tandem with our SG and so mitigate the problem you would have with deepstriking the banner.
Yup 4 Sargents are 12 fist attacks wounding on +2 rerolling 1s.
What weapons did you give the Intercessors? The rapid fire ones?
And which Warlord Trait for the ancient?
Maybe you could even add in the Sanguinor for 150 points. First buffing your Intercessors for some additional attacks and then your SG.
I then advanced all the intercessor's and 
Intercessor's move up into range supported with Meph and the banner. 
