I'm currently assembling my Sanguinary Guard and I see that their are only 3 Encarmine Swords in the box. I definitely think that the sword is better than the axe, but is it worth having a few guys in a blob of 10 having a power fist? They are the same points cost.
The axe is extremely useful vs T8 and T5. I wouldn't overlook it. Just my experiences.
In other news, I beat Mechanicus 19-1 in ITC combined arms No Mercy. Maelstrom was 7-5 and No Mercy was 57-33. MVP goes to Capt Baby Hammer (no warlord trait), Redemptor dread and reivers. Be aware that the chicken walkers and electropriests are really nasty.
Red Comet wrote: I'm currently assembling my Sanguinary Guard and I see that their are only 3 Encarmine Swords in the box. I definitely think that the sword is better than the axe, but is it worth having a few guys in a blob of 10 having a power fist? They are the same points cost.
I plan on running 3x swords, 1x fist, and 1x axe in my 5 man unit, with the Sanguinary Ancient running a Power fist or possibly an axe. I haven't decided for sure on that yet.
But yea, swords are the majority with axes and power fists mixed into the squad in equal measure. That's the plan, anyway.
My SG have 6 fists and 4 swords. Axes at 16 points is a fail in my eyes. The whole gamut of melee weapons for SG should have been priced the same. SG lacking weapon options in the box and some crappy weapon poses make that kit pretty mediocre in my opinion. Glad I’m done with them 3 boxes later lol.
My Ancient also runs a fist; fist intimidates the type of units hunting for him more than a D3 damage power sword does.
You run the Standard of Sacrifice relic on the ancient, which grants +1 Leadership, reroll 1's to wound (The regular SG Ancient banner effects). Plus, it grants a 5+ save versus any unsaved wound as well as the regular aura effects, with the notation that the standard of sacrifice doesn't effect units with the Black Rage. So your SG get their normal 2+ armor save (Modified by AP, but usually they're going to be rolling a 3+ to a 5+ at most if they're hit with anything that hits hard. Then they get the second 5+ save from the standard. It makes them fairly tough, considering they're 2 wounds each.)
Hopefully that explains things a bit better. Take it easy.
Red Comet wrote: I'm currently assembling my Sanguinary Guard and I see that their are only 3 Encarmine Swords in the box. I definitely think that the sword is better than the axe, but is it worth having a few guys in a blob of 10 having a power fist? They are the same points cost.
Fists are good if you can keep them near the Warlord to provide you rerolls as that mitigates the -1 to Hit.
Martel732 wrote:The axe is extremely useful vs T8 and T5. I wouldn't overlook it. Just my experiences.
Yeah from the math I've done it's only useful in those situations. In most cases I'm not having my SG go toe to toe with them.
Red__Thirst wrote:
Red Comet wrote: I'm currently assembling my Sanguinary Guard and I see that their are only 3 Encarmine Swords in the box. I definitely think that the sword is better than the axe, but is it worth having a few guys in a blob of 10 having a power fist? They are the same points cost.
I plan on running 3x swords, 1x fist, and 1x axe in my 5 man unit, with the Sanguinary Ancient running a Power fist or possibly an axe. I haven't decided for sure on that yet.
But yea, swords are the majority with axes and power fists mixed into the squad in equal measure. That's the plan, anyway.
Take it easy.
-Red__Thirst-
Sounds like a good mix.
Bremon wrote:My SG have 6 fists and 4 swords. Axes at 16 points is a fail in my eyes. The whole gamut of melee weapons for SG should have been priced the same. SG lacking weapon options in the box and some crappy weapon poses make that kit pretty mediocre in my opinion. Glad I’m done with them 3 boxes later lol.
My Ancient also runs a fist; fist intimidates the type of units hunting for him more than a D3 damage power sword does.
I hadn't thought of that for the Ancient. I already assembled him with a sword, but maybe I'll make another with a fist and see how it goes.
Karhedron wrote:
Red Comet wrote: I'm currently assembling my Sanguinary Guard and I see that their are only 3 Encarmine Swords in the box. I definitely think that the sword is better than the axe, but is it worth having a few guys in a blob of 10 having a power fist? They are the same points cost.
Fists are good if you can keep them near the Warlord to provide you rerolls as that mitigates the -1 to Hit.
That's a good idea. I hadn't thought of that to be honest. I feel like I'll end up throwing in two powerfists into my 10 man blob and leave the rest with swords.
I've found that sometimes I'm stuck going into T8 whether i want to or not. They shouldn't cost what they cost, but I just deal with it. I've found that sometimes scrimping points bites me in the rear.
Hey all, Eldar player here...moving out to my other armies. Not into the Nids yet and will wait for the DE book to drop....so I'm dusting off my Blood Angels successor chaptor.
Just read the codex and the cards.
Just looking for some advice.
I have
1 Land Raider Crusader
1 Razorback
1 Rhino
1 Drop Pod
quite a few PDF units (IG / AM)
rough numbers here:
Jump pack units
Chaplain
Captain
Librarian
5 vets
5 assault x2
Foot troops
10 Termies half with TH + SS and Half with twin LCs 10 man tac x2
5 man devastator x2
Tech marine
Termie Captain
Termie Librarian
Unassembled starter Primaris stuff
Unpainted Apothocary with jump pack
Unpainted Tech Marine/character with TH + Jump Pack
Checking back in right quick, I got to proxy a bit of the death company jig in a game with a friend this weekend. You know, a try before you buy type deal.
My list was a Sister's Battalion with Dominion and Seraphim support, and the death company vanguard detachment proposed earlier.
The map was a little tough sledding with terrain, but the jump packs were pretty handy for mitigating that. I put two squads of Death Company on the table, and held back Captain Hammer, Lemartes, and the third Death Company Squad.
Done in true "I'm not a blood angel player" fashion, I neglected to spend the CP to pre-game move a death company unit, but it ended up being fine. I slow-played my Seraphim as well, and lost first turn, so most of the first turn was the two of us jockeying for position on the table. I did remember to give Captain Hammer the Black Rage as well as the Relic wings.
I pretty much used the Death Company as a really expensive distraction that couldn't be tuned out, using them to smash screens and a couple of melee support units my opponent kept to protect his rear line. They made quite a mess of things while not being very efficient at it. The units they hit were guard-like (Renegade and Heretics), and were way outclassed in strength and points by the Death Company... but those guys sure wade their way through those disposable bodies nicely. The Death Company also made enough noise to pull those rear line intercept units into them, which exposed a flank very nicely to a rumbling Immolator packed with melta Dominions that turned the parking lot into a slag heap pretty quick (with the help of the Seraphim who jumped over the carnage).
All-in-all, it was a bit closer of a game than we were previously used to. When I used the IG detachment of flamer tanks, they would clear screens and such as well, but the Catachan rules made them hyper effective and reliable, and didn't leave my opponents feeling too happy to face it again. Death Company felt a little more streaky and reliant on rolling dice, but it was also a bit more fun, and made my "in your face" army more of a "down your throat" army... because it somehow managed to be MORE in the opponent's face early on.
More importantly, while the battle went away from my friend, he enjoyed the game more than IG Infantry screens and landmines (aka Hellhounds). It also drastically changed the way my army played, and that was the whole goal. We both had a great time. I'll probably end up trying to get this detachment in my army full time, which means you guys just sold some more minis for GW. Way to keep the hobby going at least for another day
admironheart wrote: So I hear people say that marines are kinda not competitive now except for Blood Angels. What makes BA good compared to vanilla?
Is it the special characters
or the relics.
If it is the latter would you suggest giving up Successor and just run pure BA?
I think the majority of what makes BA good is the fact that they have truly dedicated CC units (with average shooting to boot) backed by a very strong ability - The Red Thirst.
The best part about the red thirst is the fact that it can greatly enhance the CC capabilities of units that aren't necessarily kitted to be CC monsters, giving us tactical flexibility and the option of not having to kit everything out to the fullest to get the most out of them.
Back that up with some of the BEST HQ choices (named) and some really fancy & fluffy stratagems that mesh well with our goal of CC and you have an army that really feels like it has a true purpose and a way of achieving it.
This also makes us quite an attractive choice as a CC oriented allied detachment to other more shooty imperial armies.
In short I think these are our strengths and weaknesses (in no particular order), feel free to agree or disagree below
STRENGTHS:
Named Characters (Mephiston, Lemartes) w/ the inclusion of slamguinius (hes basically a named character now right?)
Stratagems
Abilities (Red Thirst mostly but Black Rage as well)
BA Specific CC units
Relics/Warlord Traits (I tend to believe the BA ones are above average and fit well with what we want to accomplish)
WEAKNESSES:
Expense (named characters and CC dedicated units get expensive quick)
Shooting (Not that it is significantly weaker than other SM chapters, but when you want to dedicate so much to your CC units you inevitably don't have as much strong shooting)
Psychic Spells (We have 2-3 good ones, the others are so-so at best)
We also tend to encounter what I like to call Alpha Strike Syndrome. Most of our best lists are centered around a strong alpha strike, however we tend to "blow our load" turn 1 or 2 on that strike, after that depending upon the damage that was inflicted on our alpha strike, our strongest units can tend to get left in the open and decimated in the enemy response. After that it is a slow death (at least my experience so far).
Automatically Appended Next Post: As far as the whole successor chapter nonsense. I think it is an absolute shame that GW decided to do it this way. Quite honestly, so long as you are playing in a friendly competitive environment, I would simply ask your opponent if they will allow you to use the other relics with your successor chapter.
I know I run Flesh Tearers and that is was I plan to do with my friends. Granted i'm not running Gabriel Seth (at least not yet)
I still think the biggest strength of BA is mobility and ability to put so many points in deep strike. Alpha strikes are easily neutered by screens, especially if the enemy has infiltrators. The game to me is more about tearing apart the chaff screens and then popping descent when the true target is exposed.
I think the "competitiveness" of BA will do down a LOT once players have more practice against them.
Keeping my most valuable stuff in reserve to deep strike (upwards of half my army) has done a ton to mitigate the sadness of going second. Very different than losing my best toys first turn before they’ve done anything.
Bremon wrote: Keeping my most valuable stuff in reserve to deep strike (upwards of half my army) has done a ton to mitigate the sadness of going second. Very different than losing my best toys first turn before they’ve done anything.
Yeah, the fact we can keep most of our heavy hitters off the table to mitigate the alpha strike has been a huge factor in my games. People are pretty terrified of my Death Company plus Lemartes and Angel's Wing Librarian.
Also, Rhinos are pretty decent at keeping your units alive through an alpha strike, and if the Rhinos survive, they are great at charging units to tie them up or eat Overwatch. I keep all 4 of my Combi-Plasma/Plasma Tac squads in 2 Rhinos. I am rarely dissapointed by either of them.
So I'm working on a concept for my death company, looking at it as a 2 pronged approach so to speak.
Firstly, is Lemartes + a jump pack squad of DC. Planning on it being 10 to 11 models, likely 10, with mostly bolt pistols and chain swords, with one power sword/bolt pistol, one powerfist/bolter, and one Thunder Hammer in the squad. I may also include one plasma pistol in here, but I want them to be a bit limited on upgrades since they have the added cost of Jump Packs added on.
Secondly, a 10 to 11 man (again, likely gonna keep it at 10) squad with bolters across the board, and chain swords, with a few more upgrades in here. Likely a power axe (or sword, or both..) a Power Fist and another Thunder Hammer. They will not have jump packs, but will instead either arrive with a Drop Pod or ride in a rhino (lower point games) or deploy out of a storm raven along side a death company dreadnought (higher point games).
I have an alternate idea for this second squad though, and it will make them more expensive, but the concept makes me giggle, so I'm seriously considering it.
Instead of shooting for 20 bolter rounds, I'm considering running this non jump pack squad with 9 plasma pistols and chainswords, with a power fist and/or thunder hammer mixed in, and forgoing the power sword/power axe to conserve points. Let them pile out next to something big, Have my Captain land within 6" of them overcharge, and drop 9+ plasma pistol shots in, rerolling 1's. Target something big I want to hurt (Hive Tyrant, Tank, etc) and then charge in with Lemartes supporting with the other 10 man jump pack unit.
Nine plasma pistols increases the squad's cost by 63 points, totaling up to 249 points with one Thunder Hammer thrown in. It's pretty substantial, but I'm already running a storm raven, so they have a delivery system already present.
Would just running bolters be the better option? Dealing with Chaff is nice, but being able to reliably put upwards of 14 wounds (ideally) into a target seems fun, and will definitely make my opponent re-evaluate which death company squad to prioritize killing. Do you hit the jump pack squad with more melee focus, or do you hit the foot slogging plasma squad?
Purifying Tempest wrote: Checking back in right quick, I got to proxy a bit of the death company jig in a game with a friend this weekend. You know, a try before you buy type deal.
My list was a Sister's Battalion with Dominion and Seraphim support, and the death company vanguard detachment proposed earlier.
The map was a little tough sledding with terrain, but the jump packs were pretty handy for mitigating that. I put two squads of Death Company on the table, and held back Captain Hammer, Lemartes, and the third Death Company Squad.
Done in true "I'm not a blood angel player" fashion, I neglected to spend the CP to pre-game move a death company unit, but it ended up being fine. I slow-played my Seraphim as well, and lost first turn, so most of the first turn was the two of us jockeying for position on the table. I did remember to give Captain Hammer the Black Rage as well as the Relic wings.
I pretty much used the Death Company as a really expensive distraction that couldn't be tuned out, using them to smash screens and a couple of melee support units my opponent kept to protect his rear line. They made quite a mess of things while not being very efficient at it. The units they hit were guard-like (Renegade and Heretics), and were way outclassed in strength and points by the Death Company... but those guys sure wade their way through those disposable bodies nicely. The Death Company also made enough noise to pull those rear line intercept units into them, which exposed a flank very nicely to a rumbling Immolator packed with melta Dominions that turned the parking lot into a slag heap pretty quick (with the help of the Seraphim who jumped over the carnage).
All-in-all, it was a bit closer of a game than we were previously used to. When I used the IG detachment of flamer tanks, they would clear screens and such as well, but the Catachan rules made them hyper effective and reliable, and didn't leave my opponents feeling too happy to face it again. Death Company felt a little more streaky and reliant on rolling dice, but it was also a bit more fun, and made my "in your face" army more of a "down your throat" army... because it somehow managed to be MORE in the opponent's face early on.
More importantly, while the battle went away from my friend, he enjoyed the game more than IG Infantry screens and landmines (aka Hellhounds). It also drastically changed the way my army played, and that was the whole goal. We both had a great time. I'll probably end up trying to get this detachment in my army full time, which means you guys just sold some more minis for GW. Way to keep the hobby going at least for another day
Thanks again!
What was your list with the hellhounds? Were they artemis FW ones? I have been looking heavily into building a list with hellhounds to handle screens.
I've been running a 10 man Death Company squad with 4 Thunder Hammers and 1 Power Fist (I have the model...I would run another Thunder Hammer if I had one built) with great success. With Lemartes nearby, they pretty much smash any and everything...
Results vary if Lemartes isn't around to give his reroll, but I can still expect said unit to kill one tank and put a hurt on another I've multi-charged (if able).
Because the unit usually dies to shooting afterward, I'm thinking of changing things up. I really ONLY need the Thunder Hammers, so 2 (or even 3) smaller units of 6 Death Company with 3 TH would be interesting to try out. Having the abilty to drop in a Death Company squad to blitz a flank the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd turn may overcome how neutered I feel after my initial drop assault. It'll cost 6 command points, which is a lot....
I'm still not so sure about DC. They need lemartes, or at least a chaplain, as a babysitter. They hit hard, if they make the charge. At 20 pts. per model with JP they are not exactly cheap. They die quite easily, 6+ FNP is better than nothing, but not great either. Leadership 7 is ok, but because they die quite easily, its likely some will run, even with lemartes buffing it to 9. If lemartes doesnt make the charge, he cant buff them, and stands alone, vulnerable to attacks. I used to say that a 15 model unit is whats best, but after some games i think something in the range 7-9 is better, because of morale. Losing 7-9 models from a 15 model unit means the rest will flee.
E Dreadnought Twin Lascanons + Missile Launcher 145
E Dreadnought Twin Lascanons + missile Launcher 145
686
Battalion +3 CP HQ Lieutenant with Jump Pack 97
Arch Angels' Shard + Storm Shield
HQ Librarian in Terminator Armor 143
Force stave Unleash Rage + Wings of Sanguinus
T 5 scouts with camocloaks + bolt guns 70
T 5 scouts with bolt guns 55
T 5 Tactical Marines 65
FA 5 Assault Squad with Jump Packs 98
2 flamers
FA 5 Assault Squad with jump packs 94
1 flamers + melta bombs
E 2 Combat Vets with jump packs 62
twin lightning claws x2
E 5 Vanguard With Jump Packs 99
power sword + Melta bombs
783
Batallion +3 CP HQ Sanguinary Priest with Jump Pack 86
HQ Company Ancient with Jump Pack 80
grav pistol
Power axe + servo arm
T 5 Tactical squad 90
Missile Launcher
T 5 Tactical Squad 90
Missile Launcher
T 5 Tactical Squad 65
Trans Razorback 120
Twin linked lascannons
531
Total 2000 and 10 CP
Set up both scouts, both dreadnoughts, the Razorback with a tac squad instde, and the other 3 tac squads on the board. The Terminator is with them for 9 drops on the table.
the rest is in reserves.
Captain comes in with Angel Wings
Drop pod comes in close with the Vets. They get inside rapid fire range with deployment.
They try to stay close to the captain.
If not them then the 2 jump pack company vets with LCs will try to stay close.
Sanguinary Priest, Lieutenant and Company Ancient stay in the bubble with the captain.
The last 5 Vanguard can hit with them or go on their own.
So is my math ok?
Are the inclusion of the index versions of the units with jump packs legal ( I think they are...just want to check)
I have about 2k more units but most of those points are in termies or land raider crusader and 2 devastator squads.
Also what are the stratagems to utilize?
Armoury of Baal is in the list....would like to use Death Vision sof Sanguinius somewhere.
Wisdom of the Ancients,Upon Wings of Fire, Descent of Angels, Red Rampage, Honour of the Chaptor,Only in Death does Duty end seem like the most likely.
p5freak wrote: I'm still not so sure about DC. They need lemartes, or at least a chaplain, as a babysitter. They hit hard, if they make the charge. At 20 pts. per model with JP they are not exactly cheap. They die quite easily, 6+ FNP is better than nothing, but not great either. Leadership 7 is ok, but because they die quite easily, its likely some will run, even with lemartes buffing it to 9. If lemartes doesnt make the charge, he cant buff them, and stands alone, vulnerable to attacks. I used to say that a 15 model unit is whats best, but after some games i think something in the range 7-9 is better, because of morale. Losing 7-9 models from a 15 model unit means the rest will flee.
15 men need Astorath. Or a heroic bearing warlord.
p5freak wrote: I'm still not so sure about DC. They need lemartes, or at least a chaplain, as a babysitter. They hit hard, if they make the charge. At 20 pts. per model with JP they are not exactly cheap. They die quite easily, 6+ FNP is better than nothing, but not great either. Leadership 7 is ok, but because they die quite easily, its likely some will run, even with lemartes buffing it to 9. If lemartes doesnt make the charge, he cant buff them, and stands alone, vulnerable to attacks. I used to say that a 15 model unit is whats best, but after some games i think something in the range 7-9 is better, because of morale. Losing 7-9 models from a 15 model unit means the rest will flee.
15 men need Astorath. Or a heroic bearing warlord.
Yeah, that's why I'm thinking of running smaller squads...that and the larger squad size just isn't really needed. For example, I recently had my 10man DC squad one shot a full health Mortarion and I only rolled the Thunder Hammers and Power Fist. The 5 chainswords didn't have to swing... Afterwords, they all die to shooting or whatever.
If I only brought the Thunderhammers and a few extra DC bodies to eat potential overwatch, I feel I can make the rest of my list more efficient, or, I can bring another similar DC unit to deep strike in the following turn and smash something else that is now exposed.
What was your list with the hellhounds? Were they artemis FW ones? I have been looking heavily into building a list with hellhounds to handle screens.
Usually ran 2x Catachan Hellhounds and a Devildog along side my 2x Immolators, giving me 4 2d6Str 6 -1AP Flamers at the fore of my army. The Hellhounds move a little slower than the Immolators, because they don't have Dominions giving them a pregame move, but they make up for it with 16" on their main guns, and rerolls for one of the dice for the flamers. It really normalized my 2d6 rolls into something like 8+ hits per Hellhound.
They're not going to obliterate a massive unit of chaff in 1 go, but they'll easily put the unit into a morale hole, so it dictates a bit of the movement and spacing of the enemy army.
Really, the Death Company hit squads seem to do about the same... they're a lot more fragile, but they can put bigger holes into chaff units clogging the board. I just find the Death Company to be a bit more streaky with dice rolls. I've only had one game with them so far, but they really helped and provided a bigger threat footprint for my opponent to wade through. They actually enabled my Dominions in their Immolator to sneak around to hit a soft flank of tanks. I don't know if any of you have played Sororitas, but Dominions are about as anti-sneaky as you can get, and for Death Company to hike up their priority over the Dominions means that they definitely made a mess.
And heck, it is some kind of fun to smash 14 Death Company into 10 Chaos Cultists with a big old grin. Totally not worth it, but oddly satisfying, a definitely in the "distraction carnifex" territory.
I feel Death Company has some value there. The shock value of getting hit with 4xModels chainsword attacks and a few Thunderhammer hits for added umph and watching some of their chaff screens completely vanish can change up the play style of an unsavvy opponent and open them up to some positioning errors. I kept two squads on the table and a third with both HQs in reserve, as kind of a threat, which kept my opponent a bit more bottled up than he probably wanted to be. He didn't want to give me easy access to his parking lot, so he wasn't as cavalier with moving out of his deployment space while I was holding all that in reserve.
It was either all of that junk I just typed above... or he knew that my army is very "in your face" and figured that moving out was pointless, I'd be there soon enough either way.
Fun times in either scenario.
Asking about the hellhounds though does make me interested in toying around with Death Company + Catachan flame tanks. Rush in the DC and then use the Hellhounds to fire over them and vaporize any cheap, cheap chaff that you don't want to waste DC assaults on (hi, Cultists, we meet again... and also 5 man scout/ranger squads). I'll toy around with that next. I just bought my first two boxes of Death Company today, so apparently I am in for this ride! I will say this, though: acquiring a blood angel's captain with a jump pack is an exercise. That's some black rage level of frustration at the store inquiring about that model.
My first outing vs Nurgle. My guard ally got bloodied hard but we carried the day on VPs
Typhus went down easy to Capt Slammy.
My problem was that too many guys could not all get the benefit of the bubbles
I had Captain
Lieutenant
Sanguinary Priest
Company Ancient
The Sanguinary + Red Thirst + Lieutenant made me just laugh at the Plague Marines....First game that has happened and Ive been playing this guy since 2nd ed.
My thoughts to keep Capt Slamguinius alive.
What about drop pods of company Veterans? There would be a lot of wounds to soak up.
I also have a handful of Vets with Jump Packs...but only 1 unit of all my stuff made the charge with the Capt Slammy.
In any army with real shooting and not hordes of Poxwalkers a couple guys will still get eaten alive with the Capt.
Do units have to exit the drop pod? Was thinking turn 1 drop the pod...keep the guys inside. Turn 2 drop Capt Slammy and then rush the guys forward to keep him in good company.
Drop pods have one use: making non-jump units immune to alpha strike. I can't get grav cannons or lascannons on jump troops. Drop pods have a role, but I'd never use more than one.
Martel732 wrote: Drop pods have one use: making non-jump units immune to alpha strike. I can't get grav cannons or lascannons on jump troops. Drop pods have a role, but I'd never use more than one.
Martel732 wrote: Drop pods have one use: making non-jump units immune to alpha strike. I can't get grav cannons or lascannons on jump troops. Drop pods have a role, but I'd never use more than one.
Why grav ? Plasma is better.
Actually, Grav Cannons are a bit underestimated in 8th IMHO. The important thing to remember is that they are Heavy 4 which allows them to lay down the hurt even on tough targets. Against vehicles, they will on average cause more damage than Lascannons (Heavy 4, D3 damage as opposed to Heavy 1 with D6 damage). Against MEQs, they will on average cause more wounds than Plasma (Heavy 4 vs Heavy D3) and against hordes they will cause more casualties than Heavy Bolters (Heavy 4 S5 vs Heavy 3 S5).
They are the most effective weapon in the Devastator arsenal and even outstrip the classic weapons, even in their own specialised areas. The downsides is the cost and relative short range. Cost means it is worth investing in a few more bodies to act as ablative wounds and a Drop Pod to deploy them midfield where they will have good range to their targets. The upside is that the range of the Grav Cannons matches the bolters so your extra dudes will be able to contribute, not just catch bullets.
I would get an 8 man squad in a pod with either a Captain or a Lt for cheap rerolls and then put Mephiston in so he gets a quick ride into the action.
Actually, Grav Cannons are a bit underestimated in 8th IMHO. The important thing to remember is that they are Heavy 4 which allows them to lay down the hurt even on tough targets. Against vehicles, they will on average cause more damage than Lascannons (Heavy 4, D3 damage as opposed to Heavy 1 with D6 damage). Against MEQs, they will on average cause more wounds than Plasma (Heavy 4 vs Heavy D3) and against hordes they will cause more casualties than Heavy Bolters (Heavy 4 S5 vs Heavy 3 S5).
They are the most effective weapon in the Devastator arsenal and even outstrip the classic weapons, even in their own specialised areas. The downsides is the cost and relative short range. Cost means it is worth investing in a few more bodies to act as ablative wounds and a Drop Pod to deploy them midfield where they will have good range to their targets. The upside is that the range of the Grav Cannons matches the bolters so your extra dudes will be able to contribute, not just catch bullets.
I would get an 8 man squad in a pod with either a Captain or a Lt for cheap rerolls and then put Mephiston in so he gets a quick ride into the action.
I dont think so. For about the same point cost (only 8 more) of a 5 model dev squad with 4 grav cannons and a drop pod i can get 5 company vets with JP, plasmaguns, combiplasma on the sarge, and a captain with JP and combiplasma. The first turn your dev squad arrives they only hit on 4s (one model hits on 3+ because of the signum) and wound T6+ on 5s, 16 shots, 8 hits, 3 wounds, 9 damage. My vets and captain hit on 3+ and 2+, rerolling 1s, and they wound T5+ on 3s, 12 shots, 10 hits, 7 wounds, 1 is saved, 12 damage.
Grav cannons don't need a babysitter and have twice the maximum effective range; ie max firepower out to 24". Everything in plasma range is getting hosed by ASM with plasma and VV with plasma pistols.
Ok, I had a game yesterday and man I made some rookie errors. We had a 2k scorched earth and I got to choose the deployment map and got to go first. I managed to pull a forlon's fury over the enemy hellblasters gunline where the enemy warlord was. Then it all started going south. Some mental notes from the game.
- hellblasters with primaris ancient with the relic banner is something that you should not shoot at if your 12man DC blob is in rapid fire range of it. - Screening your opponent from total denial of DS is great, but not if you move your precisely aligned DC blob from the front line to let your enemy come from the shadows inside your freshly opened gap before the game even starts.. - I'm having bad games with my mr. Slam.. he fails charges and is left in the open. Now with dual re-roll to charge (Lemmy, Wings) I still didn't make it. Next time -> DS in cover, make the charge next turn. Luckily he withstood a lot of fire from the enemy and managed to multi-charge two hellblaster scraps with 2 wounds remaining. - My 12man DC blob was only 2man strong when they charged the gravis captain with 2 PF dudes on T1.. - Ones do happen! Karma reaches you and you reroll your ones as ones more times than in the last 10 games before.. - 2 scout squads isn't enough for screening a gunline, although I deployed on objectives to get points.. - MvP: Mephy, he soloed -> T1 5man intercessor squad -> T2 gravis captain, primaris lieutenant, primaris ancient -> T3 4man intercessor squad - SG did some good work, killing the reivers and both librarians.
So my biggest errors were the self-opening of my screen and shooting the hellblasters with my DC near, I didn't even shoot with the bolters of the DC at the captain before I realized that those dying hellblasters really clear out my DC. I think my opponent didn't fail a single 3+ banner of sacrifice roll.
I spent all but 2 CP on T1. -1 2nd relic, -1 DC capt upgrade, -2 forlon's fury, -2 WODA on plasma devs. T2 SG used the 3d6 charge -2.
Here's a few photo's from the deployment before I started to ruin my own day, if interested. You probably need to click the pics to be able to read the texts..
Spoiler:
NOTE: BA transports are there for terrain, pods give cover.
BA&DA deployment [spoiler]
RG deployment
Spoiler:
Random pic from deployment
Spoiler:
I get to go first and my enemy fails the seize! Whooo!! Looking a bloodfest for the sons of Sang....
After Forlon's fury
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
End of BA turn T3 (only an intercessor squad left on the RG force) Score: BA 17 vs. RG 8
My opponent said that Mephy was a beast, but he didn't want to priorize to it anymore when it didn't give him any points. He thinks that me choosing the deployment zones gave me a too big head start in points. He was also thankful to me to waste my DC blob so well that he could even try to have a decent game. In the end he only had one intercessors squad left and my Mephy just one turn away from charging them. He was dissapointed in his inceptors that they didn't deliver enough pain. RG tactics -1 to hit from 18" was also to his benefit that my gunline couldn't finish enough off. Have to say that shooting lascannons at 2W models with bad rolls is terrible.. I think I made like four 1 damage lascannon shots at those pesky 2 wound models..
So Lemmy and angels wings don't stack, does it also mean that I can't use a reroll strat to either of the rerolls? Well I failed them anyway, so no effect in the game.. Thanks.
You can roll the charge and then decide whether to reroll all dice with the relic pack or just one with the stratagem.
You'll definitely want to shoot hellblasters with preds or devs before closing in. The good news is that primaris marines have no other pressing targets!
I deployed the DC early to force the opponent to deploy againt them. I would have moved them backwards if I wouldn't have the first turn. How should I have used the forlon's fury instead? They were 18" from the hellblasters before forlon's fury.
Thanks for clearing the reroll thing, I think I've played actually like that before.. Dunno where all these brainfarts come. Maybe I should blame beer, whiskey or Canada.
Martel732 wrote: I usually put my DC in orbit, so I don't have much experience with forlorn fury atm.
Same here. They ALWAYS go in orbit, the 3d6 charge range (rerollable with Lemartes) is too good to pass up. While they rarely fail a charge like that, it is disappointing when it happens like it did in my last game.
I use them as suicide chaff clearers. Sometimes I can save them by locking up a small squad or character. But they are just there to clear the way for the real drop.
Hi Guys, not been on for a while but have had the codex for a while and managed to get some games in recently.
As many people probably have done, I have come up with my own version of "Slamgiunious" however I based mine on a San Priest with two hammers and ran him with DC in order to give them +1 strength.
Couple of questions, what warlord trait have you guys been giving, I have been dropping lemartes and 15 DC so went with Heroic Bearing in order to save the big group from morale.
also, does the stormshield (+3) give a massive advantage over the iron halo (+4)? Obvs the priest can't carry a shield, but I really like the +1 to strength when coupled to x2 strength my DC have taken out Lord of Skulls in one turn with that setup.
Sorry if what I have put is old news, just keen to get the best beatstick possible.
What do you guys prefer for your DC blob.. In this scenario there wouldn't be a SG blob or Lemartes..
a) Forlon's fury to get into face and probably certainly in range for the charge.
or
b) 3d6 charge? It's 1 more CP, but if you can afford it? Does it negate the fact that you could force your opponent to deploy against the aggressively deployed early DC?
As many people probably have done, I have come up with my own version of "Slamgiunious" however I based mine on a San Priest with two hammers and ran him with DC in order to give them +1 strength.
Couple of questions, what warlord trait have you guys been giving, I have been dropping lemartes and 15 DC so went with Heroic Bearing in order to save the big group from morale.
also, does the stormshield (+3) give a massive advantage over the iron halo (+4)? Obvs the priest can't carry a shield, but I really like the +1 to strength when coupled to x2 strength my DC have taken out Lord of Skulls in one turn with that setup.
Sorry if what I have put is old news, just keen to get the best beatstick possible.
A sang priest ? Why ? You only hit on 4+ with the hammer, you have no reroll 1s aura. You have only 3 attacks and only 4 wounds. Sure its nice to have S10, but a captn with S8 and red thirst will already wound everything that isnt T8 on 2+. Why two hammers ? The second is wasted points. It does nothing. You cant go wrong with any warlord trait, only exception is selfless valour, i think its the weakest of all. The advantage of a SS is a 16,7% higher chance of making the invuln sv. Is that worth 15 pts. ? You have to decide that.
The best beatstick is a captn with a hammer. I like my captn with angels wings and a SS.
Xirax wrote: What do you guys prefer for your DC blob.. In this scenario there wouldn't be a SG blob or Lemartes..
a) Forlon's fury to get into face and probably certainly in range for the charge.
or
b) 3d6 charge? It's 1 more CP, but if you can afford it? Does it negate the fact that you could force your opponent to deploy against the aggressively deployed early DC?
I dont feel comfortable deploying DC on the table, they are always in orbit. What if i dont go first ? What if my initiative gets seized ?
So am I the only one using the Forlon's fury as a distraction/forcing the opponent to deploy againt it to leave possible gaps somewhere else. For example in the game above the hellblasters were deployed to counter the DC.. You can always withdraw in safety with the blob with Forlon instead of moving towards.. But if I'm the only one.. Maybe I should just do the DoA.. Although I've saved that for the SG. In games with only one jump threat it seems that DoA is a no brainer vs. Forlorn? Hmm. Thanks.
Xirax wrote: So am I the only one using the Forlon's fury as a distraction/forcing the opponent to deploy againt it to leave possible gaps somewhere else. For example in the game above the hellblasters were deployed to counter the DC.
Xirax wrote: So am I the only one using the Forlon's fury as a distraction/forcing the opponent to deploy againt it to leave possible gaps somewhere else. For example in the game above the hellblasters were deployed to counter the DC.. You can always withdraw in safety with the blob with Forlon instead of moving towards.. But if I'm the only one.. Maybe I should just do the DoA.. Although I've saved that for the SG. In games with only one jump threat it seems that DoA is a no brainer vs. Forlorn? Hmm. Thanks.
I have been toying with idea of Forlorn Fury. If you can use it to get a charge off with the DC on the same turn that the SGDoA then you stand a good chance of crushing a big part of your opponent's line. Even using the DC as a distraction Carnifex is not without merit although you will want to be careful how many points you spend on them in this scenario.
As others have pointed out, using the DC in this way is not without risk. Artillery etc will stand a good chance of taking a chunk out of them, no matter where they move. On the other hand, if you regard your DC as a suicide squad then the question simply becomes how long they survive and how much they can take down before they die.
Well if my opponent has lots of non-LOS artrilley in his list, thats totally a different case. Putting the sky high is the only reasonable thing to do.
And manoeuver like that needs thick terrain if you don't go first. To me it was a better option between dropping with Lemmy and try the charge on the same turn or drop in cover and charge on the second turn. DoA has been a SG thing in my lists because I've been running my vanguard as DC, SG, SG ancient and want to give some boost for both of the CC jumpers to launch them on the same turn.. So noone uses Forlon's fury in comp play?
I think the upside is definitely worth the gamble in most games. If you get the first turn you are almost guaranteed a first turn charge with the DC and you get to DoA something else at the same time, many tournament lists get blown out by this combo. If you don't get the first turn you can often move them out of LOS, the typical opponent in this meta does not have nearly enough indirect fire to punish you in that situation. With some planning you can also zone out the opponent's deepstrike threats with your scouts and other units. Then you can either move into charge range on your turn or use Upon Wings of Fire to get them into 50/50 charge range with Lemartes nearby. Its painful but hardly a guaranteed loss.
Xirax wrote: Well if my opponent has lots of non-LOS artrilley in his list, thats totally a different case. Putting the sky high is the only reasonable thing to do.
And manoeuver like that needs thick terrain if you don't go first. To me it was a better option between dropping with Lemmy and try the charge on the same turn or drop in cover and charge on the second turn. DoA has been a SG thing in my lists because I've been running my vanguard as DC, SG, SG ancient and want to give some boost for both of the CC jumpers to launch them on the same turn.. So noone uses Forlon's fury in comp play?
Tournament players often use Forlorn Fury with a DC bomb.
Cephalobeard wrote: So, I started my adventure in BA by adding them as allies to my Custodes. Find myself really enjoying them.
Rocking shotgun scouts, scout bikes, mephiston and a Slamguinius. Anyone have any other "tech" units or favorites to run?
Been reading through the thread and it seems like there isn't a direct consensus on most things.
Death Company are pretty stellar. They clear chaff in melee with amazing efficiency. The real conundrum is if you want to run two medium to small units of them (5 to 8 models strong) or run a larger squad of 10+ models. I find that they die every game, so I try not to sink too many points into mine, keep the squad between 6 and 8 models, and usually run Lemartes with them because he is such a force multiplier for the squad. He himself is a very powerful unit unto himself, getting 6 attacks on the charge at +2 strength, -2 AP, and D3 damage per successful wound, and he provides some invaluable buffs to the Death Company around him. Re-rolling all failed to hit like any other chaplain, on top of rerolling failed charge rolls. I rarely build a list without him any more as a general rule.
Sanguinary Guard are one of our other unique weapons, and one I highly recommend checking out. They're great for taking out larger multi-wound targets.
There are other fun things in the codex, but those are some of the stand-outs you didn't already mention.
Lemartes is a must if you play with DC. Problem with small DC units is if he doesnt make the charge. If you daisy chain back to him you have less models in CC, and he may be a target for your opponent. If you dont daisy chain you get more models to attack, but he stands alone, vulnerable to attacks, not buffing anyone.
After more gaming I've come to a conclusion that Forlon's fury works well with just the Slamguinius. Save the DoA for SG/DC blob and the if you really want a chance to get a third charge in, do it with Lemmy and a DC blob. Possibility is quite thin, but you have chance getting total of 4 units into combat.
- Slamguinius with the Forlon's fury and angel's wing jump pack.
- SG with the DoA.
- DC with Lemartes. (although this I strongly would just DS in cover and wait for the 2nd turn charge)
- Mephiston with wings of sanguinius (I'd hold Mephy in a transport in a case that the opponent gets the first turn)
You really don't need to do all this on turn 1, but you still got some cards in your sleeves to help you get in. At least in a semi-competitive environment these all have worked more times than not.
Dunno if all these could work sometimes also in your meta as well?
Martel732 wrote: What does Slamguinius do against a well-screened army? The whole point of DC/inceptors is to clear the screens out.
Nothing..
Last game I moved towards with Forlon's fury into cover T1 with Slam..
..but not every army has a 100% screens against charges. Move up, move again and then charge gives you 12+d6+12 movement before the charge. At least I've managed to fly over with screens a few times with use of Forlon's fury. Not every deployment map has 24" noman's land.
Martel732 wrote: What does Slamguinius do against a well-screened army? The whole point of DC/inceptors is to clear the screens out.
Not that I've done it, but I can see how 1 model could have a better chance of finding a cracked in a screen than a mid to large sized unit. I may have to start adding this tech to my gameplan, as I've yet to adopt Forlorn Fury.
I assume in the games you don't end up with first turn you just move as far forward as possible and stay out of line of sight? Shouldn't be impossible for one model on a table with decent terrain.
I've been playing blood angels more and more recently. I've got some questions on where to go with the army from here.
I've been running some variant of this:
Spoiler:
Blood Angels Batallion Captain (TH + SS + JP) *Relic: Angel's Wings *Warlord: Speed of the Primarch
Captain (Relic Blade, Mast Crafted Boltgun) <- Babysits my Hellblasters so they don't kill themselves <-
Terminator Libby (Combi-Melta, Force Axe) *Psychics: Unleash Rage, Quickening <- Plan to replace him with a JP libby as soon as I get the model built
5 Intercessors
5 Intercessors
5 Intercessors
6 Inceptors <- Usually combat squaded, Don't seem to be pulling their weight considering VV or Assault Marines
10 Hellblasters <- Usually combat squaded
Blood Angels Vanguard Libby Dread (Meltagun) Psychics: Wings of Sanguinius, Quickening <- Usually ends up playing linebacker, will be replace with either Lemartes or Mephiston
15 Death Company (JPs, 1 TH, 2 Plasma Pistols, 1 Power Maul)
Primaris Ancient *Relic: Banner of Sacrifice <- Babysits the Hellblasters
5 Assault Terminators (2 TH+SS, 3 LC) <- will be replaced, probably with Reivers
*Note: This configuration requires me to spend 1 CP for an extra BA relic, and I always spend 1 CP to upgrade the captain, and 2 CP to help my DC make turn 1 combat.
Or doing triple battalion like this (Way more effective than I expected it to be):
Spoiler:
Blood Angels Batallion Captain (TH + SS + JP) *Relic: Angel's Wings
Captain (Relic Blade, Mast Crafted Boltgun) <- Babysits my Hellblasters so they don't kill themselves <-
Terminator Libby (Combi-Melta, Force Axe) *Psychics: Unleash Rage, Quickening <- Plan to replace him with a JP libby as soon as I get the model built
5 Intercessors
5 Intercessors
5 Intercessors
15 Death Company (JPs, 1 TH, 2 Plasma Pistols, 1 Power Maul)
Primaris Ancient *Relic: Banner of Sacrifice <- Babysits the Hellblasters
10 Hellblasters <- Usually combat squaded
Militarum Tempestus Battallion Tempestor Prime (Rod of Command) *Relic: Laurels of Command
Tempestor Prime (Rod of Command)
*Note: This configuration requires me to spend 3 CP for 2 BA relics, and 1 CP for an extra AM relic, and I always spend 1 CP to upgrade the captain, and 2 CP to help my DC make turn 1 combat.
1) Hellblasters seem to be all stars when paired with the Standard of sacrifice and a captain. But that makes them pricey (about 480 points for 10). For 480 points I could be running 4 Basilisks, a Master of Ordinance, and an infantry squad. Are Hellblasters the right choice for anti-tank?
2) My DC always die. Which is OK if they live long enough to let the rest of my army do their thing. But, I'm considering Vanguard vets to replace them. A squad of 10 VV has 1 fewer attack on the charge, but I could give 3 of them Store shields for 15 pts which would make them more durable in many situations. What do you think of Vanguard Vets?
3) Intercessors always feel overcosted when I build a list with them. On the other hand they are generally always left at the end of the game holding my backfield, and sometimes the midfield. It's probably because they aren't very threatening, but I'm wondering if they might be better than I'd 1st assumed.
4) Inceptors feel like garbage. On paper they are fine (less assaulty bikers), but their damage output is always disappointing. I thought they would be effective screen killers, but it's not uncommon that all 6 of them can't kill 10 guardsmen. I don't think they've ever killed their points. My last game, all 6 shot into a unit of dark reapers in cover, and the dark reapers took 2 wounds. The one neat thing about them is people seem to know they are garbage, and I deep strike them in corners, so my opponents rarely put effort into killing them, and sometimes they can steal an objective. Am I using them wrong, should I be dropping them with captain slamguinius so they get reroll 1's? Do you guys use them aggressively? Am I just suffering from bad dice, or do they really suck this bad?
5) Reivers: I'm leaning towards adding some to my lists. Have you found success with Reivers, or would I be better off adding Vanguard vets / Assault marines to harass my opponent's backfield? Combat Knife or Bolt Carbine?
6) Lemartes vs Mephiston. Which is the better choice if I'm running DC?
7) Sternguard. I've got an unbuilt box. Is there a way to make use of them in 8th ed blood angels?
Modeling Question: I want my HQ's to stand out a bit, so I was going to use some extra Inceptor bodies to make a Captain Slamguinius / JP Libby, but my buddies thought that might be a bit much, and recommended Intercessor bodies with JP's. Do you think anyone would object if I used 2 starter box lieutenants as the starting point for those characters?
Modeling Question: I want my HQ's to stand out a bit, so I was going to use some extra Inceptor bodies to make a Captain Slamguinius / JP Libby, but my buddies thought that might be a bit much, and recommended Intercessor bodies with JP's. Do you think anyone would object if I used 2 starter box lieutenants as the starting point for those characters?
Right at the top of this page, my dude. I did the same already, using hellblaster/BA chaplain bits. Totally fine. Fits on the same base, and most "jump pack" models are typically already posed as jumping, making them taller. Toss it on a 32 and call it a day.
1) Comparing to basilisks with marine units will always make you sad. Hellblasters are brutal mid-field control, but I wouldn't count on them for anti-tank. Autolas preds and russes rip them apart.
2) DC and vanguard, to me, have different jobs. DC are to be equipped with boltguns, chainswords, a couple hammers and sent on a suicide mission to clear chaff. Vanguards are dropped in next to high AP units and kill them or tarpit them with their storm shields.
3) Intercessors critical flaw is they have no heavy weapon and no good transport options. I guess that's two flaws. They will always be ignored unless they need to be pushed off an objective.
4) I usually package inceptors with jump captain #2, not slamguinius and a jump lt along with some plasma ASM and drop pod devs. 6 inceptors should kill an average of 13 guardsmen in cover with this setup. Inceptors also benefit mightily from upon wings of fire. But they are susceptible to any multi damage weaponry.
5) Reivers are great, imo. They have no power weapons, but they DO have 24" guns with two shots. They batman around the table, stay in cover, bully shooters, gun down chaff. And fill elite slots cheaply for brigades.
6) If you are using a max blob of 15, I'd say Astorath. If your plan is forlorn fury, I'd say Astorath. For smaller drops, Lemartes is your guy. Mephiston has little synergy with DC except for shield of sanguinius and unleash rage.
7) Sternguard are okay for us since we have the +1 wound strat. They can tear up other marines and T7 vehicles pretty good. But I prefer longer range shooters.
I'm not a good source for modeling. But your idea sounds fine to me.
I feel like 10 Sternguard with Storm Bolters could be pretty handy. I do like the idea of 40 shots from a squad popping out of a Rhino (or even Drop Pod if you are plahing casual).
4) Inceptors feel like garbage. On paper they are fine (less assaulty bikers), but their damage output is always disappointing. I thought they would be effective screen killers, but it's not uncommon that all 6 of them can't kill 10 guardsmen. I don't think they've ever killed their points. My last game, all 6 shot into a unit of dark reapers in cover, and the dark reapers took 2 wounds. The one neat thing about them is people seem to know they are garbage, and I deep strike them in corners, so my opponents rarely put effort into killing them, and sometimes they can steal an objective. Am I using them wrong, should I be dropping them with captain slamguinius so they get reroll 1's? Do you guys use them aggressively? Am I just suffering from bad dice, or do they really suck this bad?
I love inceptors - 6 not dropping a guard squad is an anomaly - they should kill 13 in one round, jumping to 15.5 with a cap. Have you tried them with plasma and a cap? I prefer them to hellblasters now. Four less wounds but +1 toughness, no alpha'ing them off the board and they get to choose deployment, so as to limit los. One squad with a cap does 10 expected damage to a predator. Basically, I think a jumpcap is nice on the dakkaceptors, but an essential on the plasceptor - so given I prefer plasceptors, they always run with a cap.
Bought another scout box today.. now that the dust is settling are you guys still thinking that BA melee scouts are superior over boltgun squad? I've run mine with boltguns and chainsword on the sergeant, they shoot almost every turn and hold objectives. They get to shoot more often than they are charged.. I use them as screens and objective grabbers straight through deployment. In this role boltguns have felt better.. might even add a heavy bolter in 1-2 units..
What have been your experience with them, what is your preferable load out/usage with them. I haven't tried the shotguns and snipers have always been, no sixes.. no sixes..
I have only run the CCW Scouts so far and found they seem to punch above their weight. 59 points for 5 plus a Power Sword on the Serg and they come with infiltrate and ObjSec. I haven't tried other builds though so maybe there are other good value builds.
Karhedron wrote: I have only run the CCW Scouts so far and found they seem to punch above their weight. 59 points for 5 plus a Power Sword on the Serg and they come with infiltrate and ObjSec. I haven't tried other builds though so maybe there are other good value builds.
Same here, though I don't run a power sword on the sergeant, just a chainsword. I've been impressed with how hard they hit. I also have run mine with Camo Cloaks if I have points for it, so they're harder to shift off of an objective in cover. I may get another squad of them and give them bolters instead. Haven't made up my mind on that yet.
I love my scouts. As you said they punch above their weight class in melee with the Red Thirst helping them.
I am building 4 Scout squads, 2 of the 5 man squads with pistol and combat blade, the other 2 squads with Bolter. I have been impresed with the pistol Scouts so far, they are a great distraction and hit hard enough for me to not think them a waste.
My local club had many IG army. All of them like to play 100+ guardmens. The one I usually play with ( 1500 pts ), he like to play 3 tank commander reman russ + 3 wyvern sit on some Conner and then layer by 200 guardmens.
He is professional for dropping guardmens so thick around 1 feet and 1 more leyer wrap out side 1 feet from thick layer protect deep strike.
Do someone have recommend list for dig down that IG?
FYI my local club like to play No mercy mission.
Eihnlazer wrote: 200 guardsmen means you need 30 DC just chainsword and bolters. with lemartes, a slam captain, and a lieutenant buffing them they destroy them.
I try many time but if you see in picture, He have some small outside layer you can kill just 10-20 guardsmen. So can not deep strike to inside layer. Then next turn DC will easy kill by wyvern 3 of them 12 D6 shot and reman russ 6 d6 + 27 HV bolter.
Bolter aggressors in cover with a company ancient with the standard of sacrifice (to help them survive enemy fire) will shred those guardsmen to pieces. Captain and lieutenant would be useful to reroll 1s. After punching a hole DC will deepstrike and attack the tanks.
p5freak wrote: Bolter aggressors in cover with a company ancient with the standard of sacrifice (to help them survive enemy fire) will shred those guardsmen to pieces. Captain and lieutenant would be useful to reroll 1s. After punching a hole DC will deepstrike and attack the tanks.
That I try before not work due to fire power too difference. fire to fire with IG that rally bad idea. He have many guardmen to fill up the hole. I have win other mission but it rarely play. In no mercy mission very difficult to win IG because he never need to move full of them get relic of lost Cadia aura.
I don't think there is a reliable way to handle that setup with a BA list. With our current tools we have a good matchup vs the kind of lists that have a good matchup vs that setup. That is, we will generally be better off vs an Alaitoc+Ynnari list or an Alpha Legion list but those lists are going to beat an IG gunline with 200 guardsmen, who in turn beat us. It's not quite this simple but the point is that I would not expect to win that game with any BA list and if it was a casual game I would ask the opponent to change their list next time.
I think that we do have a place in the current tournament meta due to our matchups with some of the popular lists but we will still get blown out by something like this.
Scouts + scout bikers on table turn 1. Kill that first layer of chaff. He kills most of them. Keep one unit of scouts alive or one of your random on the board place holders.
Turn 2 drop 2x 7 man DCs + lemartes + captian slam + sang + unit 1 of plasma ceptors (w/in 6" of captian slam + 18" of tanks). Charge and kill a couple units of Guard. Make a hole in a flank or two.
He kills ceptors. Hopefully you can wrap up a unit of guard or he falls back and kills most of your DC.
Drop 4 more plasma ceptors and last unit of DC, overcharge and kill 2 more tanks. New unit of DC should be able to wrap up a unit by now to remain in CC due to needing to fall back there should be gaps in his army for you to get captian slam into something valuable. Use 3d6 charge strat on this unit of DC (no lemartes for re-rolls)
How I'd play it.
captian slam
lemartes
sang if you have the points
3x 5 man scouts w/ shotguns
1x 7 man scout with pistols ccw (set-up for first turn charge)
?2x 5 man scouts with snipers?
3x 7 man DCs (pistols, jump packs, chainswords)
2x 4 man plasma ceptors
2x scout bike squads
2 more of anything that will fit (snipers maybe to get rid of his orders, never used them so not sure about this one). If you can find a use/points for 3x heavies you can field this as a brigade (devs w/ 1 las?)
Other option would be 2x storm ravens dropping DC supported by captain slam+. -1 to hit really messes with guard armies and they get a lot of shots when fitted for dakka mode.
You could try just blowing up the vehicles and then locking up squads of guardsmen in close combat. If the vehicles are that closely surrounded, they have the potential to explode, wounding other tanks and killing infantry in the process. Once the heavy lifters are gone, you can deal with the infantry by avoiding them, locking them in combat, etc. For your troops, I would suggest using max squads of intercessors. They are twice as survivable as normal marines, and when split using combat squads, they can get an aux grenade launcher into each 5 man squad, which can be used to shoot krak grenades at tanks or frag grenades at infantry.
Ultimately though, I don't think that Blood Angels are equipped to deal with a multitude of horde type lists while taking Blood Angel specific units due to the expensive nature of those BA units. For example, Death Company and Sanguinary Guard are expensive, and they lack durability, especially against weight of fire lists.
Dont think this IG to easy if you kill first layer then they will send more mans to fill up out side layer that just spend 10-20 more guardmen from big layer.
Also cant do like lock in CC becasue he deploy by measure every gap can not put any model base in.
P.S. You guy will not imagine this IG need almost 1 hr for deploy units. I always finish dinner when wait for him put down all guardmens.
2 13 man units. 1 power sword, 3 inferno pistols, rest chainsword and bolter.
Backed up with Lemartes and a Smashtinent.
They wrecked a rhino, a vindicator, some berserkers, and a jusggy lord. The also melted kharn the betrayer with an inferno pistol shot (after he killed 7 of them).
At end of game there was still 10 of them alive from the second squad.
kingfox0 wrote: Unfortunately not much club to play in my small county. The meta here is perfect for shooting team, CC team rarely win here.
Get yourself a Spartan from FW. It is a LOW that can transport 25 models and comes with 2x quad lascannons. That means you have 8 lascannon shots per turn which will hit on 3's and if you stick a Captain next to it, its rerolling 1's.
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Spartan-Assault-Tank
Cephalobeard wrote: I'll be taking my Blood Angels/Custodes out for a spin in the next week or two as I finish building this list.
Looking forward to testing out Lord Slamguinius.
Any tips or tricks I should keep in mind?
(See attached current kitbash model, decided to make him out of a Primaris due to the improved posing. Head/Jump Pack separate.)
Just popped in to this thread after hearing of this wonderful Slamguinius fellow. I’m looking to ally this with my Custodes force, and I’m curious what your current list looks like.
Obviously, a Supreme Command of Jetbikes will work nicely for anything.
Cephalobeard wrote: I'll be taking my Blood Angels/Custodes out for a spin in the next week or two as I finish building this list.
Looking forward to testing out Lord Slamguinius.
Any tips or tricks I should keep in mind?
(See attached current kitbash model, decided to make him out of a Primaris due to the improved posing. Head/Jump Pack separate.)
Just popped in to this thread after hearing of this wonderful Slamguinius fellow. I’m looking to ally this with my Custodes force, and I’m curious what your current list looks like.
Obviously, a Supreme Command of Jetbikes will work nicely for anything.
senor_flojo wrote: Kingfox, do you have another place to play? That doesn't sound like an enjoyable experience.
Sadly, running away from IG doesn't usually work when they are as popular as they currently are.
I don't play at stores. My friends don't have IG, and if they did, they wouldn't play cheap.
There's a subforum on here for finding locals.
Automatically Appended Next Post: BTW, what's the consensus on using Death Visions on more than one CPT/LT/Chap in a given game. The stratagem doesn't specify that you can only use it once....
kingfox0 wrote: Unfortunately not much club to play in my small county. The meta here is perfect for shooting team, CC team rarely win here.
Get yourself a Spartan from FW. It is a LOW that can transport 25 models and comes with 2x quad lascannons. That means you have 8 lascannon shots per turn which will hit on 3's and if you stick a Captain next to it, its rerolling 1's.
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Spartan-Assault-Tank
That rally bad idea. If you go LOW, all IG players have Shadow sword. If go second It can kill any LOW in 1 turn. Then will got more trouble.
BTW, what's the consensus on using Death Visions on more than one CPT/LT/Chap in a given game. The stratagem doesn't specify that you can only use it once....
senor_flojo wrote: Kingfox, do you have another place to play? That doesn't sound like an enjoyable experience.
Sadly, running away from IG doesn't usually work when they are as popular as they currently are.
Well, than refuse games unless they are willing to play a different mission set like Maelstrom. I would rather just not play than play in an unfun environment.
I agree with NH Gunsmith. By the way, if he doesn't play maelstrom missions, which is what makes this game spicy as you have to THINK a little bit and not just bubble-wrap everything and roll tons of dice, that shows to me that he's a poor warhammer player.
I think you'll have a hard time winning with pure BA list, but if you have some spare money I'd go with a wing detachment of 3 dark talon flyers: 24 shots and d3 shots S10 plus the bomb. I, by no means, enjoy soup lists but it's about sending a message here. Feel free to proxy these flyers with stormtalons if you have.
How about a detachment of raven guard allied? Drop 6 Aggressors and a jumpcap and absolutely melt his chaff. 6 Aggressors, not having moved, rerolling 1s from the cap, should kill around 38 guardsman. Spread that out with 1 aggressor shooting at each squad to trigger morale apocalypse and you'll bring 6 infantry squads to their knees in the opening round. Will set you back around 310pts...
What about Mephiston (/any librarian) using wings and/or Cpt.Hammer with Forlorn Fury.
Using LOS blocking terrain to keep these small single models hidden & pounce with insane movement. Because this guy has massively bubble wrapped he will not be able to redeploy (or easily) to gain Los + bubble wrapping should still leave gaps for regular movig model.
Or at least that threat will constrict the wrap, allowing for better multi charges.
Also play the objective game, you'll win for days.
If for using Soup list, that not problem to me to win. I win many time when mix with BA + IG it safe.
But I just need to win with pure BA. If need to win at all cost, I just pick supreme command Celestine then she go lock tanks turn 1 stop his fire
I would like to say thank everyone for share idea.
Death Company: Jump Pack
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Inferno pistol, Power sword
. Death Company Marine: Inferno pistol, Power sword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Inferno pistol, Power sword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
Death Company: Jump Pack
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Inferno pistol, Power sword
. Death Company Marine: Inferno pistol, Power sword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Inferno pistol, Power sword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
grouchoben wrote: How about a detachment of raven guard allied? Drop 6 Aggressors and a jumpcap and absolutely melt his chaff. 6 Aggressors, not having moved, rerolling 1s from the cap, should kill around 38 guardsman. Spread that out with 1 aggressor shooting at each squad to trigger morale apocalypse and you'll bring 6 infantry squads to their knees in the opening round. Will set you back around 310pts...
A Fallen Angels list is an interesting idea, but you might want a lieutenant instead of a master. Grim resolve let's you re-roll 1s to hit if the unit didn't move, may as well try to get 1s to wound re-rolled. Might even give you an excuse to get that primaris lieutenant.
Might need to do a vanguard detachment, maybe throw in a company ancient along with them.
With my list its as you see fit. You can go for super alpha strike by having one DC on the board and moving with the strat before the game starts, then dropping the other squad and getting a first turn charge with both squads.
Or you can deep strike them one at a time if you think your opponent will be able to weather the alpha, going for a more drawn out attack.
Well, my store has for the most part decided to drop down to 1,500 points as our "standard", and I couldn't be happier. Both of my Maelstrom games against a Guard/Custodes army were excellent, and forced tons of movement with our slightly shrunken armies. The first game was a real nail biter, where all the Guard/Custodes player could do to win was table me. The second started slow for me but it became a real blowout when 2 of the 3 Shield Captain bikers died to shooting in the second turn, and a turn 3 drop of my Death Company/Lemartes/Angels Wing Libby turned the tide once they found a hole in his screens and managed to charge hid Leman Russes.
My games at various point levels have been showing me more and more that not having a decent firebase as Blood Angels is crippling. I have recently begun rolling Scouts into my lists and at 1,500 points they really seem to shine.
My Blood Angels army also seems to be able to take the opponents alpha strike better since they aren't able to take every toy they want in their army.
Company Ancient [4 PL, 63pts]: Boltgun, Standard of Sacrifice
Death Company [18 PL, 236pts]: Jump Pack
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Power fist
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Power fist
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Power fist
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
++ Unbound Army (Faction) (Imperium - Adeptus Custodes) [27 PL, 480pts] ++
+ HQ +
Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike [9 PL, 160pts]: Hurricane Bolter
Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike [9 PL, 160pts]: Hurricane Bolter
Shield-Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike [9 PL, 160pts]: Hurricane Bolter
++ Total: [86 PL, 1499pts] ++
They were excellent games, the first one showed me how powerful the Shield Captains are and just how much punishment they can take. The second game they dropped pretty quickly when I was able to isolate them. Trying to melee them to death was an absolute mistake in the first game.
Tiberius501 wrote: Quick question; can you do well with Blood Angels without needing to use Death Company?
Yes you can, using Sanguinary Guard with adequate support (The Sanguinor, The Standard of Sacrifice on a Sanguinary Guard Ancient, and a jump pack Librarian to hit them with Unleash Rage, and possibly Shield of Sanguinius) With a Sanguinary Novitiate (with Jum pack) or other cheap third elite choice would be a terrifying Vanguard detachment to see drop in on you. I like the Novitiate as a cheap third Elite for the detachment, he helps keep the Sanguinary guard alive by healing wounds or going 50/50 on returning one to the squad that was killed previously if none are already wounded.
Death Company are very very good at putting a ton of wounds on chaff units/screens very fast, even without any real support (Such as a Chaplain or other buffing character/special character), though obviously running one or two support units increases their damage output substantially.
They're an excellent tool, and highly effective, but not required to be used of course. Still, I do recommend using them, as they're damn killy, and though they may die by turn 2 or 3, they'll make a hole in whatever they run into.
Thanks Red_Thirst. I was planning on using a Sanguinary Guard unit of 8 accompanied by the sacrifice banner, a captain and a sanguinary priest for +1 str. I was also considering a Librarian Dread to fly up the board and give them Unleash Rage though maybe a normal Libby would be better to save points
Tiberius501 wrote: Thanks Red_Thirst. I was planning on using a Sanguinary Guard unit of 8 accompanied by the sacrifice banner, a captain and a sanguinary priest for +1 str. I was also considering a Librarian Dread to fly up the board and give them Unleash Rage though maybe a normal Libby would be better to save points
That's a solid setup, for sure!
If I may make one suggestion:
Run the Sanguinary High Priest with a Jump Pack, paired with a Jump Pack Librarian for unleash rage & whatever other power you like (I prefer Shield of Sanguinius myself). Give the Sanguinary Ancient the relic banner (Standard of Sacrifice) and make him your warlord, keep him within 6" of your Sanguinary Guard to give ALL the rerolls to hit thanks to Heirs of Askelion, and re-roll 1's to wound from the default banner abilities. Also, give him the Heroic Bearing warlord trait and laugh as you auto-pass all morale saves you're required to make. Lastly, you can add in the obligatory third elite slot to make it a Vanguard Detachment by tossing in a cheap Elite character, such as the Sanguinary Novitiate with a jump pack I mentioned earlier, that would give you a second way to restore a wound to the Sang Guard or another shot and bringing a fallen Sang Guard model back after being killed on top of the Sanguinary High Priest.
I want to do something very similar to this, honestly. Only I'd be running a 5 man Sang Guard unit with a Sang Guard Ancient along side a jump pack hammer Captain and a jump pack Librarian, coupled with the jump pack Sanguinary Novitiate. I do think the Sanguinary High Priest is probably one of the best HQ characters to run with the Sanguinary Guard, or the Sanguinor of course.
For HQ headhunting or dealing with a hard target, I feel like this is probably one of the best things we can bring to bear.
With 8 Sanguinary Guard (Assuming all are armed with Glaive Encarmines), hitting them with Unleash Rage, you're looking at 24 (3*8 = 24) attacks, re-rolling all failed to-hit rolls being within 6" of the Sanguinary Ancient Warlord. That results in ~7 misses or so on the initial roll, with 17 hits. Rerolling the ~7 misses gives you ~5 more hits, totaling ~22 hits.
Rolling to wound, wounding T:4 or lower on a 2+ thanks to Red Thirst on the charge and being S:5 from the High Priest, AND re-rolling wound rolls of 1, you're looking at damn near 100% to wound on the target (20+ wounds at least barring a higher than average number of 1's coming up twice in a row). Each wound doing D3 damage, you're going to carve up whatever T:4 or lower unit you're looking at more than likely, regardless of their armor save is.
Even T:5 units would be ill prepared to deal with it. You'd still be wounding on 3's on the charge with Red Thirst and re-rolling 1's to wound from the banner at -3 AP and D3 damage each.
As I said previously, a terrifying prospect for sure.
It certainly has merit, and few units can match the damage output in my opinion.
One last question; would a Furioso being carried around by a Stormraven be good? I know dreads aren't very survivable currently to get in there with melee, but would being transported in make it work? And would a frag cannon be worth it? I'd assume two fists is better but my model has the frag cannon and I can't find the box to refit him :/
I wouldnt run a furioso dread. The DC dread is better. Its 29 pts. more (159), but you get black rage (which works with lemartes buffs, but he is not necessary), a 6" consolidate move, stormbolter, and a meltagun. If you add a meltagun and a stormbolter to the furioso its already 149 pts.
A frag cannon is not worth it, 7 average automatic hits at 8" with S6 AP-1 D1 for 38 points, and you lose your re-roll failed hits in the fight phase. No, dont use it.
p5freak wrote: I wouldnt run a furioso dread. The DC dread is better. Its 29 pts. more (159), but you get black rage (which works with lemartes buffs, but he is not necessary), a 6" consolidate move, stormbolter, and a meltagun. If you add a meltagun and a stormbolter to the furioso its already 149 pts.
A frag cannon is not worth it, 7 average automatic hits at 8" with S6 AP-1 D1 for 38 points, and you lose your re-roll failed hits in the fight phase. No, dont use it.
Okay awesome, thanks, I'll chuck the Death company one in instead
I have found my librarian dread to be a monster. He tends to go down when he gets focused, but the turn he charges, he puts in work. I have found the best thing for him to do is look for a turn 2 charge. Hide him behind some tac marines, intercessors, etc while ensuring Wings of Sanguinius goes off on turn one. Ideally you're within 18" of chaff and you can toss a smite so adds to the damage on turn 1. He keeps fly and the 12" move during the turn 2 movement phase, so casting Wings of Sanguinius again gives him have a 24" move on turn 2. That combined with Quickening ensures you can charge anything you want that has space for him to get into base contact with.
This is my list idea. Hoping it's competitive enough to win games with but not tournament worthy, as I play in a more casual setting:
[Battalion Detachment]
HQ - Captain w/ Jump pack and duel claws, Relic: Angel's Wing, Warlord Trait: Artisan of War
- Sanguinary Priest w/ Jump pack and 2x chainswords
TROOP
- 5x Intercessors w/ Auto boltrifles, Aux grenade launcher, sergeant w/ chainsword
- 10x Tacticals w/ flamer, heavy-flamer, sergeant w/ combi-flamer and power sword in a rhino
- 10x Tacticals w/ melta, multi-melta, sergeant w/ combi-melta (ride in the Stormraven)
FLIER
- Stormraven w/ Typhoon and 2x lascannons
[Vanguard Detachment]
HQ - Librarian Dreadnaught, Powers: Wings of Sanguinius and Unleash Rage (to use on Sang Guard)
ELITE
- Death Company Dread w/ fists (rides in Stormraven)
- 8x Sanguinary Guard w/ swords
- Sanguinary Ancient w/ Standard of Sacrifice (-1cp for extra relic)
- 10x Reivers w/ blades
I have 10pts left to play with. What do you guys think?
Your list is atleast fluffy, although double chainsword jump pack sanguinary priest. well, we don't use index stuff after codex..
Hey,
How you guys run your vanguard vets? I wanna try them too, last summer I had a 6man squad in test, but after the codex I yet have fielded them. I wanna try them out, replace my DC, not for same role, but as a DS threat.
I was thinking:
Jump packs naturally
Sergeant with dual LC ~3 with SS&TH ~few with inferno pistols and power swords
If I would take some ablatives, what would be your pick?
I'm hoping you guys could give me your 2 cents on my idea for vanguard vets before I start painting them. I've been frustrated that my DC always die by turn 2, and am looking for something a bit more durable, and possibly something that reads as less of a threat. So I'm looking at the following:
10 Vanguard Vets with jump packs:
Sargent has dual lightning claws and a Melta Bomb.
3 guys with Power Sword + Bolt Pistol
3 guys with Chainsword + Storm Shield.
3 guys with Chainsword + Bolt Pistol.
It comes out to the same as 10 JP Death Company with 6 power swords. It doesn't hit quite as hard, but the Storm Shields mean it should stick around better. Because they aren't DC, they could also combo with a Standard of Sacrifice. So I'd be tempted to send them in with some other deep striking unit (Rievers?) and a Company Ancient.
mokoshkana wrote: I have found my librarian dread to be a monster. He tends to go down when he gets focused, but the turn he charges, he puts in work. I have found the best thing for him to do is look for a turn 2 charge. Hide him behind some tac marines, intercessors, etc while ensuring Wings of Sanguinius goes off on turn one. Ideally you're within 18" of chaff and you can toss a smite so adds to the damage on turn 1. He keeps fly and the 12" move during the turn 2 movement phase, so casting Wings of Sanguinius again gives him have a 24" move on turn 2. That combined with Quickening ensures you can charge anything you want that has space for him to get into base contact with.
I've been using my Libby dread a ton recently, because it was already painted. I always expect to use him offensively, but find that more often then not he ends up being my Free Safety. Patrolling my backfield for deep striking threats. He is really good at taking down characters or vehicles that threaten my backfield.
Against units that deep strike in, he typically tries to tie them up. 3 Attacks isn't enough to threaten most units. I always give him quicken, and if I don't need the extra attacks for captain hammer or my deep striking libby, I generally use the Red Rampage Strategem to give him a few more swings.
- 10x Tacticals w/ flamer, heavy-flamer, sergeant w/ combi-flamer and power sword in a rhino
Wow, so many wasted points. Flamers are pathetic. Those models are 243 points. You get 8 boltgun shots at 24", 16 shots at 12", 7 auto flamer hits (same damage as boltgun) at 8", and 3,5 heavy flamer hits at 8" with S5 and AP-1. Plus 11 melee attacks.
A razorback with twin AC and stormbolter and a 5 model company veteran squad with stormbolters and chainswords is 208 pts. For that you get 14 boltgun shots at 24", 28 shots at 12", and 12 twin AC shots at 24" with S6 and AP-1. Plus 16 melee attacks.
Alternatively you could use a rhino with twin stormbolters and two 5 model company veterans with stormbolters and chainswords, thats 254 pts. For that you get 24 boltgun shots at 24". 48 boltgun shots at 12". Plus 32 melee attacks.
Hey,
alert! not the most tactical discussion, but anyways BA player ramblings..
First..
for a 500 point gaming, I've been running a Slamguinius, lieutenant, 2x scouts, tac squad with HB and a 6man DC with jump packs.. It has performed reasonable well.. but amount of vehicles people are bringing in such a small party I was thinking what if..
Second, having a game tomorrow. My friend is coming over for a 1k match up. BA vs. DG. Both are my armies, but he likes to play all painted, so by all means..
Spoiler:
I've tried to pull two evenly competitive lists for us and if this works out well, I'll bring the same list in a gaming day with several opponents.. what do you think, big tweaks needed? 1k games are yet strange for me, but 2k games tend to take so much time, so we are trying to settle in a new point limit (I'm hoping 1500 or 1250, but..) and organizer talked about trying 1k next.
- 10x Tacticals w/ flamer, heavy-flamer, sergeant w/ combi-flamer and power sword in a rhino
Wow, so many wasted points. Flamers are pathetic. Those models are 243 points. You get 8 boltgun shots at 24", 16 shots at 12", 7 auto flamer hits (same damage as boltgun) at 8", and 3,5 heavy flamer hits at 8" with S5 and AP-1. Plus 11 melee attacks.
A razorback with twin AC and stormbolter and a 5 model company veteran squad with stormbolters and chainswords is 208 pts. For that you get 14 boltgun shots at 24", 28 shots at 12", and 12 twin AC shots at 24" with S6 and AP-1. Plus 16 melee attacks.
Alternatively you could use a rhino with twin stormbolters and two 5 model company veterans with stormbolters and chainswords, thats 254 pts. For that you get 24 boltgun shots at 24". 48 boltgun shots at 12". Plus 32 melee attacks.
Yeah I’m trying to make use of a 7th ed army that wasn’t even great in 7th haha along with Primaris because the models are sweet
So I've reworked my list after playing a couple of games today. Reivers are unfortunately really lacking, which is a damn shame. Also 8 Sanguinary Guard ended up feeling a little bit like overkill and ended up drawing too much fire after mega wrecking a unit. Captain didn't really do much either unfortunately. So here is my new list, is it any better?
What are you all running for Devastators? I’ve purchased 2 kits and have been using 2x lascannon and 1x plasma cannon from each box. I’ve been having notable success with those squads, but I’m at a loss as to what to build out of the 4th marine. Ideally it would be more lascannon, but only 2 of each gun per box. Plasma cannon benefits from the sergeant’s signum, so one is perfect but I’m hesitant to add a second plasma cannon. Thoughts?
If you don't want to buy a third box. a missile launcher can function as a poor man's lascannon that can also split fire in to infantry squads for more damage than a lascannon would probably deliver.
Bremon wrote: What are you all running for Devastators? I’ve purchased 2 kits and have been using 2x lascannon and 1x plasma cannon from each box. I’ve been having notable success with those squads, but I’m at a loss as to what to build out of the 4th marine. Ideally it would be more lascannon, but only 2 of each gun per box. Plasma cannon benefits from the sergeant’s signum, so one is perfect but I’m hesitant to add a second plasma cannon. Thoughts?
Everything except melta and grav is good. RL and HB can be used with a stratagem to inflict mortal wounds. Plasma is good when you have a captain around, to reroll 1s when overcharging. Always use more marines than heavy weapons for ablative wounds. And use a cherub, its only 5 pts. and you can allocate wounds to it. Another cheap ablative wound.
Bremon wrote: What are you all running for Devastators?
Everything except melta and grav is good.
Don't underestimate Grav. A Grav cannon is actually better than a Lascannon against vehicles due to RoF and better than a heavy bolter at mulching hordes. It is better than a plasma cannon vs MEQs and doesn't overheat. The only downsides are high cost and short range.
Range can be overcome by putting them in a Pod and dropping them midfield where they will have plenty of targets. Put a cheap buffing character like a Lt in for rerolls and they will shred any unit type in the game.
If you want a traditional stand-back-and-shoot Dev squad then my preference is 3 Lascannons and 1 plasma cannon. The plasma cannon can be buffed by the Signum meaning it is safe to overcharge, even if there is no Captain around.
I think a third box is in order but I did forget about the stratagems. I do have several heavy bolter marines already due to multiple Start Collecting! boxes but a missile launcher could do in a pinch, we currently play 1250 points, soon 1500, so a missile launcher’s versatility might be nice.
That’s very true Martel, I see bloat drones, blight haulers, hive tyrants, etc. regularly, and the lascannon is overkill against those targets while the frag missile can help kill a few scrubs when LOS on the tasty stuff isn’t going to happen (we play with plenty of LOS breaking pieces).
I'm actually thinking of running a Brigade in my next few games. Something along the lines of:
Captain Hammer
Lemartes
Jump pack Lieutenant
6 Death Company w/ 4 Thunder Hammers
8 Death Company w/ Chainswords
Company Ancient
5 man Tactical squad w/ Heavy Bolter
5 man Tactical squad w/ Heavy Bolter
5 man Tactical squad w/ Heavy Bolter
5 man Tactical squad w/ Missile Launcher
5 man Tactical squad w/ Missile Launcher
5 man Intercessor squad w grenade launcher
3 Inceptors w/ assault bolters
3 Inceptors w/ assault bolters
Land Speeder w/ heavy bolter
5 man Devastator squad w/ 2 lascannons, 2 missile launchers and a cherub
Whirlwind w/ the anti-hoard missiles
Whirlwind w/ the anti-tank missiles
Basically, that list allows me to spend a turn shooting a long range if I'd like (to thin out screens) before dropping in with my Death company, which seems decent as more horde armies break into the meta. Also, it has a decent amount of board prescence.
I've been running the Troops as shown in my lists for awhile now and they almost always stick around (not high on the priority list)
Range can be overcome by putting them in a Pod and dropping them midfield where they will have plenty of targets. Put a cheap buffing character like a Lt in for rerolls and they will shred any unit type in the game.
You must be joking Dropping devs with grav guns and a buffing character in a pod midfield ? Thats ~350 pts. You get to shoot once in your turn, hitting on 4s. You wont be able to kill a razorback with that. 16 shots, 8 hits, 3 wounds, 6 damage. Hilarious. On your opponents turn your devs will be tied up in melee by chaff
I can get two units of devs with 8 lascannons for about the same amount of points, they will take out a razorback for sure, and they will damage a second one.
6 Death Company w/ 4 Thunder Hammers
8 Death Company w/ Chainswords
Is there a reason that isn't either:
5 Death Company w/ Chainswords
9 Death Company w/ 4 TH's
Or
7 Death Company 2 TH's
7 Death Company 2 TH's
?
Yep.
The 6 man DC with 4 Thunderhammers is basically my main...um...hammer unit, and is deployed to dispatch the enemy's biggest threat. The 2 extra non-Thunderhammer guys are for absorbing potential overwatch deaths on the way in. The 4 Thunderhammers are for doing the work.
The 8 man DC with chainswords is for screen clearing, if needed, and the more the merrier for such a task.
I had Captain Smash kill a Plaguecaster and 3 Blightlords yesterday. That felt good.
This was the second game in a row where a Daemon Prince survived with 1 wound and was the difference between me winning and losing. Also...I dislike Death to the False Emperor lol. On another note; it’s been great having devastators instill the fear of god into a plagueburst crawler.
Last night I pulled DoA charge with capt Slam on a Nurgle DP with suppurating plste. I died and made only a single wound. Next turn Mephy with quickening and unleash rage charged the DP getting 4 wounds through.. Mephy survived the first blows at 2 wounds left, but died on the DG turn.. Game was a uphill struggle from there. DC was my mvp..killed a squad of 16 poxwalkers on the charge 10dc 2 hammers..
Licking my wounds and trying to figure out should I alter my list.. Any suggestions welcome.. My list in the first post on this page above..
Predator at 1k does nothing but give your opponents anti-tank an obvious target. I use DC as dedicated chaff clearing at 1250 points; 6 w bolter and chainsword I’ve used to kill 10 cultists and 19 poxwalkers in one turn; double tap cultists, then DOA and Vengeance for Sanguinius.
DC Artisan Hammer JP Captain will obliterate that DP, my regular opponent uses the 4+ DR trait. If his DP is open then he’s public enemy number one; DOA, red rampage, only in death; 5 CP (use VV to try and regen; yesterday’s game I regenerated 4 CP), but you average 14 attacks hitting on 3s, rerolling 1s, wounding on 2s, forcing his 5++ to protect him from attacks that do 4 damage; you should average around 24 rolls for DR if I’m not mistaken.
Devastators give you ablative wounds and a sergeant to buff a heavy weapon; they’ll be more resilient in the early game (anti tank weaponry won’t worry them as much, forcing that crawler to be fairly careful).
Bremon wrote: What are you all running for Devastators? I’ve purchased 2 kits and have been using 2x lascannon and 1x plasma cannon from each box. I’ve been having notable success with those squads, but I’m at a loss as to what to build out of the 4th marine. Ideally it would be more lascannon, but only 2 of each gun per box. Plasma cannon benefits from the sergeant’s signum, so one is perfect but I’m hesitant to add a second plasma cannon. Thoughts?
Everything except melta and grav is good. RL and HB can be used with a stratagem to inflict mortal wounds. Plasma is good when you have a captain around, to reroll 1s when overcharging. Always use more marines than heavy weapons for ablative wounds. And use a cherub, its only 5 pts. and you can allocate wounds to it. Another cheap ablative wound.
I have been running 3 Missile Launchers and a Cherub in my three 5 man squads. I know that most people prefer Lascannons, but I like the way Missile Launchers look. Plus, I tend to encounter quite a few armies that are a mix of cheap hordes and some armor. I am rarely dissapointed by the Missile Launchers.
Last game my Frag Missiles were able to wipe out my opponents Electropriests on my turn 1. To me that was more important than hitting his Dune Crawlers since I managed to find a spot my Angel's Wing Librarian could pop in and shut off his shooting. That freed up the Death Company to hit his lines like a freight train and consolidate into the rest of his armor. Sometimes the versatility to the Missile Launchers works in my favor since shooting armor over infantry isn't always the right decision if you can blunt his counter punch and force the vehicles to fall back.
I’ve been running 5 man squads with 3 weapons as well; otherwise I need to ditch a squad member in my DC and SG, at 1250 it’s been working quite well but when we bump up to 1500 my Devs, SG, and DC will all get more squad members.
I can’t reliably get first turn and if I don’t my regular opponents will kill a few Devs; they’re the only single wound models I have that start on the table, and they pack the most heat lol. 1 scrub and the cherub are usually enough to weather the storm, and if I get first turn I can burn the cherub for a second lascannon shot at 2+. Exocrine and a plagueburst crawler are usually priority number one for me; getting 7 wounds on the crawler really takes the sting off, 5+ BS and the DP flying off to do his own thing pretty much cripple it.
With BA i've run my devs with a ablative as well. 2x las, plasma cannon and cherub. Although I think I'll do a PC, ML, LC, cherub devs to my next game.
I wanna beat that DG list. If you could help me list tailor a bit. Better dice rolling and artisan of war for the capt Slam should take the DP. That foetid bloat-drone and the PBC burned my infiltrated scouts from objectives. Those S6-7 4d6ap-1 d1 autohit, reroll all wounds flamers are nasty in 1k game. Atleast that predator and rapid firing plasma needed three turns to drop the drone.. Predator finished the DP on turn 3, the last remaining 4 wounds.
So with what I should stop the drone, PBC, DP advance team? One dev squad ain't enough and drone can't be locked in combat.
I wouldnt run TH or PF with DC without lemartes. You only hit on 4s and only 3 attacks when you charge. Next turn its only 2 attacks hitting on 4s. DG is hard to beat at 1k. The PBC and the drone are way to low on points. Here is what i would try :
Company Ancient [4 PL, 63pts]: Bolt pistol, Standard of Sacrifice
Death Company [18 PL, 254pts]: Jump Pack
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Chainsword, Inferno pistol
. Death Company Marine: Chainsword, Inferno pistol
. Death Company Marine: Chainsword, Inferno pistol
. Death Company Marine: Chainsword, Inferno pistol
. Death Company Marine: Chainsword, Inferno pistol
. Death Company Marine: Chainsword, Inferno pistol
p5freak wrote: I wouldnt run TH or PF with DC without lemartes. You only hit on 4s and only 3 attacks when you charge. Next turn its only 2 attacks hitting on 4s. DG is hard to beat at 1k.
[snip]
You tried cheap DC with chainswords? No negative on the to-hit, 4 S5 attacks on the charge (S6 with the priest).
Just throwing it out there, not sure it'd really be worht the price.
p5freak wrote: I wouldnt run TH or PF with DC without lemartes. You only hit on 4s and only 3 attacks when you charge. Next turn its only 2 attacks hitting on 4s. DG is hard to beat at 1k.
[snip]
You tried cheap DC with chainswords? No negative on the to-hit, 4 S5 attacks on the charge (S6 with the priest).
Just throwing it out there, not sure it'd really be worht the price.
I usually run most of my DC with boltguns and chainswords, when they are alone. What's the alternative ? Assault squad's are bad, and vanguard or company vets are only 1 pt. cheaper. I think 1 pt. for black rage is a very good investment.
Martel732 wrote: Against DG, I find Stalkers very handy. Many of my 2K lists have a Stalker now.
A stalker ? I didnt know DG have so many FLY units. T8 is nice, but 6 shots autocannon hitting on 4s against non FLY, and 5s when you moved ? No. I would rather use a vindicator. Or a dread with twin autocannons.
I would think a Baal flamestorm with heavy flamers would be better than a stalker through sheer number of automatic hits (a third of which are S6), but I admittedly have only seen the flamestorm used, not used it myself.
Do you really want your tank within 8" of the enemy ? Within half melta range ? Within charge range ? No. I dont. Flamer baal preds are very bad. Even twin AC baal preds are bad. A twin AC razorback can do the same for less pts. and can transport 6 models as well.
p5freak wrote: Do you really want your tank within 8" of the enemy ? Within half melta range ?
I'll be honest here, outside of the one player who still sticks with sisters of battle, I don't really see melta enough for this to be a consideration. But if the enemy charges you after you shoot, you basically get to shoot twice in one turn since your flame weapons automatically hit, which can do a LOT of damage.
Martel732 wrote: Against DG, I find Stalkers very handy. Many of my 2K lists have a Stalker now.
A stalker ? I didnt know DG have so many FLY units. T8 is nice, but 6 shots autocannon hitting on 4s against non FLY, and 5s when you moved ? No. I would rather use a vindicator. Or a dread with twin autocannons.
Bloat drones and demon princes are reason enough. And those bug cavalry things. Also, i always field tac lists.
p5freak wrote: Do you really want your tank within 8" of the enemy ? Within half melta range ?
I'll be honest here, outside of the one player who still sticks with sisters of battle, I don't really see melta enough for this to be a consideration. But if the enemy charges you after you shoot, you basically get to shoot twice in one turn since your flame weapons automatically hit, which can do a LOT of damage.
How do you overwatch with your flamers if he charges you from 8,1" away ? If he charges with a T5+ unit he will get a warm fuzzy feeling from your flamers, that's all. Flamers are ridiculous. It's ok if infantry hand flamers and normal flamers have 8" range, but heavy flamers and flamers on tanks should have more range.
p5freak wrote: How do you overwatch with your flamers if he charges you from 8,1" away?
Why are you 8.1" away from them to begin with? When positioning your tank for firing, you should bear in mind the fact that it will get shot and/or charged afterwards. You may actually want to get closer to the target than absolutely necessary, in order to ensure you can overwatch a different unit that tries to charge.
When my kids go to bed.. We'll have a go at the rematch..
I agree that Baal pred especially with the flamers are really bad in this ed. DG flamers are way better. Against those drones and DP that stalker could prove valuable sure, 50€ eww, but what the heck..
I only got 5CP to use during the game (after DVotS) so no DoA? Trust the angel's wing reroll.. use forlon's fury to move DC towards bloat-drone to get a shot at with inferno pistols.. I know two ain't much, but had only two painted..
Tactical Squad [5 PL, 101pts] . 3x Space Marine
. Space Marine (Special weapon): Meltagun
. Space Marine Sergeant: Chainsword, Combi-melta
+ Elites +
Death Company [18 PL, 146pts]: Jump Pack
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Power sword
. Death Company Marine: Chainsword, Inferno pistol
. Death Company Marine: Chainsword, Inferno pistol
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Power sword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
+ Heavy Support +
Devastator Squad [8 PL, 141pts]: Armorium Cherub
. Space Marine: Lascannon
. Space Marine: Missile launcher
. Space Marine: Plasma cannon
. Space Marine: Boltgun
. Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun
+ Dedicated Transport +
Razorback [5 PL, 114pts]: Twin assault cannon
Razorback [5 PL, 120pts]: Twin lascannon
Here's a wysiwyg big of the above list.
So should I try to beat the initial DG list or give the below list for my opponent to field? Just suggest and I'll play and make a quick rep.. Suggest tactical efforts, I'll try.. The below list has imho even more cheese in form of DP, 2x bloat-drone, PBC flamer spam..
Mission will be either Ascension or front-line warfare.
p5freak wrote: How do you overwatch with your flamers if he charges you from 8,1" away?
Why are you 8.1" away from them to begin with? When positioning your tank for firing, you should bear in mind the fact that it will get shot and/or charged afterwards. You may actually want to get closer to the target than absolutely necessary, in order to ensure you can overwatch a different unit that tries to charge.
A smart opponent will remove models who died from your flamer attacks from the front, models who were the closest to your tank. Then he will position his units 8.1" away from your tank in his movement phase, shoot it in the shooting phase, and charge it in the charge phase. Your 54 pts. of ridiculously overpriced short ranged flamers will get no overwatch.
p5freak wrote: How do you overwatch with your flamers if he charges you from 8,1" away?
Why are you 8.1" away from them to begin with? When positioning your tank for firing, you should bear in mind the fact that it will get shot and/or charged afterwards. You may actually want to get closer to the target than absolutely necessary, in order to ensure you can overwatch a different unit that tries to charge.
A smart opponent will remove models who died from your flamer attacks from the front, models who were the closest to your tank. Then he will position his units 8.1" away from your tank in his movement phase, shoot it in the shooting phase, and charge it in the charge phase. Your 54 pts. of ridiculously overpriced short ranged flamers will get no overwatch.
An 8" charge with no modifiers or rerolls is only happening 4/10 times. So I would be pretty happy if my opponent tried something like that. Even with a reroll that is a risky move.
Dunno if you really are into this 1k duel, but here's the situation before sauna. Deployments done and DG got +1 for going first.. Those rolls after sauna. I'll spam you more about how the fight went laters.. I hope my sons of Sanguinius will get justice! Keep your fingers crossed..
Spoiler:
Situation after deployment. Mission front-line warfare, dawn of war deployment.
Well, after about a dozen games with my Scouts, I find myself wishing that both squads had Bolters instead of pistols & blades.
Been using them mainly to shut down close range deep strikers from getting near my back field gunline and camping objectives, so they almost always end up out of pistol range, or just in pistol range, making charges not worth it.
Anybody else feel the same way?
Also, got in a game against the new Tau Codex today. We played a 1,500 point Maelstrom game and when he conceded it was 13 victory points to 3. The Death Company managed to alpha his Riptide off the board, it is beginning to feel like any more than 3 Power Fists or Thunder Hammers is overkill in that squad. I have been running mine with 3 Power Fists and Bolters, and the rest with Chainsword and Bolter... They are insanely lethal. My Angel's Wing Librarian is still public enemy #1 at the store, anytime you can shut down Tau overwatch shots is an absolute win.
I haven't been using Slamguinius since the utility of the Librarian is just incredible, even though he has little damage output and Lemartes has failed all but 2 charges from deep strike. Those 10 Death Company, Lemartes and the Librarian are great at giving my gunline room to breathe and plow shots from the 3 Devastator squads into an opponents army.
Is Slamguinius still the go-to guy to strap The Angel's Wing onto? And how have you guys been using your Librarians?
Actually ive had some success with the Ghetto slamtenant lately.
Paired with lemartes it makes the DC absolutely lethal.
He looses an attack, a wound and an invun save for only 30 point discount, but the reroll 1's to wound stacks better with lemartes to make your alpha stronger. Giving him the wings would be fine as you don't really need it on the slam captain (he can take most any overwatch cept for tau).
Scouts are great at zoning out opposing deepstrikers, grabbing midfield objectives and acting as a roadblock. If your army has a significant firebase then employing your scouts in the above roles is preferrable and in those roles they are better off using bolters. I don't find that I need to zone out opposing deepstrikers since my army doesn't have much of a firebase. Instead I use my scouts to threaten turn one charges and guarantee space for my own deepstrikers, with those roles in mind the CC weapons or shotguns generally do better.
I'm going to play against my friends necrons in two weeks (1,5k game). I have a pretty good idea what i will encounter, because i know his army. Their new codex is coming out soon. What worries me are the wraiths. They are going to be 55 pts. per model. I except 3-6 of them. They have M12, WS/BS3, T5, S6, W3, A3, Sv4+ and 3++. Their vicious claws are S6, AP-2, D2. They can ignore models and terrain. They can charge and shoot after falling back. I dont see any counter to those. Heavy bolters will wound them on 4s, but only do 1 wound. I have two contemptor mortis dreads with twin assault cannons each. They would work, but they are supposed to shoot his vehicles. Any CC units we have with only T4 will stand no chance against the wraiths. I can stop them for one round in CC, but they can fallback over my units, into my gunline, and still charge my tanks/dreads. Captn slammy and meph seem to be the only choice.
Sure, DC can pretty much kill anything, but i didnt plan to use DC this time. A 15 model DC unit is vulnerable to morale losses. Even with lemartes and his LD 9. Once they are on battlefield and kill some wraith, the wraith will fallback, my friend will focus fire the DC, and probably charge them again with the remaining wraith. Killing 8-9 DC is enough to force morale losses. 3-4 remaining models dont justify spending 2CP. And they only have LD 9 when lemartes is within 6".
I think that wraiths are foetid bloat-drones baby cousins.. what works on bloat-drones, will work on wraiths..
I think I'll go back to 10man DC with 3 fists all boltguns, 7 chainswords. Unless points there for hammers.. Never thought that BA might benefit from a company ancient, will have to check on that, because in the last nights game I really needed more anti-tank and I think I failed like 9/14 LC shots from a razorback..
Here's a quick rep from my last nights game, if some one is interested. I was 100% sure of the game out come after T2.. but feel free to entertain yourself if interested..
So this is how the last nights game went..
Spoiler:
TURN 1
BA goes first
DC uses the forlon fury towards the bloat-drone. Both inferno pistols fail, 1 miss, 1 fail to wound, DC boltguns kill some poxwalkers.
Pic: DC aiming their inferno pistols..
twin AC kills plague marines, Devs do some damage on a bloat-drone dropping it to 5 wounds. Twin LC razor hurts the chaos rhino some.
DC charge the DP and the plague marines.. swords at DP sore 1 wound after DR, chainswords at plague marines. DP kills the DC in return.
Pic: End of BA T1.
DG turn
bloat-drone, PBC, DP move forward, DP on a building. DP smites 6 MW on scout squad killing it. Plaguespitters burn two more scouts from the 2nd squad in the building. Mortar and slugger kills two devs.
Pic: End of DG T1.
TURN 2
Mephy and tacticals disembark and close on bloat-drone, Capt slam drops 10" away from DP, Assback moves forward. DP denies the wings of sanguinius. Smite finishes off the plague marines next to DP.
Only 1 damage from LC at the bloat-drone and it's negated by DR. Tacticals manage to do total of 1 damage with melta shots, bloat-drone at 4 wounds. Scout boltguns do 1 damage to PBC.. whooo. Twin AC wants to kill the poxwalkers and drop them to 5 models..
Pic: End of BA movement T2.
Capt Slam DoA and Mephy charge the DP, Capt Slam kills the DP, but gets 2 MW from the suppurating plate.
Pic: End of BA T2.
In the death guard's turn; Malignant plaguecaster and plague marines disembark from the rhino and close on BAHQ's.
PBC finishes the devs with mortar and burn the scouts leaving only the sergeant alive. Bloat-drone burn the whole tactical squad in one volley.
Smite damaged the captain in the psychic phase and the disembarked plague marines finish the captain off with rapid firing plasma and blight launcher. Poxwalkers charge the assback losing 1 model from overwatch.
Pic: End of DG T2.
Situation after two turns:
BA force
Mephy
1 scout sergeant
2 razorbacks
DG has lost 1 PM squad and the DP
TURN 3
Plague marines DR'd all smite damage and Mephy fails quickening. Mephy multi-charged plague marines and the Malignant plaguecaster making just enough wounds to kill the DGHQ.
Twin LC razor misses both shots. Assback moves away from combat.
Plague marines disengage from combat into ruins and bloat-drone burns the last scout from the ruins, PBC moves and burns Mephys eyebrow and charges for two damage! Mephy at 1 wound. Mephy gets only a single wound through. My dice rolling is terrible, PBC needs 6's to hit, I need 2's to hit & wound, but still PBC outperforms Mephy in a duel!
TURN 4
Mephy moves and gets wings finally to jump behind assback who moved on the DG base objective.
DG turn bloat-drone moves within 9" of the assback and still holding the central objective. PBC and bloat-drone try to burn the assback and with the fire support from the plague marines assback drops down to 3 wounds. Last 4 poxwalkers try to deny assbacks firing onces more by charging.. but overwatch kills 3 and it's assback's time to show how fighting is done with vehicles and kills the last poxwalker in the fight phase.
TURN 5
Mephy decides it's his turn for heroism and targets the plague marine squad. Mephy fails quickening, but gets wings and lands infront of the plague marines.
Mephy eats two plasma and one blight launcher hits from overwatch, but his a man on a mission makes the saves. In the fight phase BA uses the last CP for red rampage and kills 4/5 of the plague marine squad.
Twin LC miss both shots again and twin AC manages to do a single damage to the bloat-drone, which is at 3 now.
Plague marine champion succesfully tests morale and flees from the combat behind the building. Bloat-drone burns the Mephy into pile of dust. PBC burns and shoots it's slugger at the assback dropping it to 3 wounds.
The score in the end of T5:
DG +1 first blood
+4 two central objectives
+1 slay the warlord
Total: 6 VP
BA +1 slay the warlord
+1 own deployment zone objective
+4 opponent deployment zone objective
+1 linebreaker
Total: 7 VP
T6
Assback doesn't wound the bloat-drone. Hitting lascannon shot stops into invulnerable save of the bloat-drone.
DG fire plaguespitters, super-charged rapid fire plasma and the slugger at the assback dropping it to 1 wound! Mortar bombs 1 wound from the twin LC razor.
The score is still 1 VP more for the BA!
T7
Assback fails to hit the bloat-drone with 12 BS 5+ shots.. Twin LC miss too with BS 4+..
DG: Bloat-drone fails to wound the assback, rhino fails to wound, plague marine champion with rapid firing super-charged plasma explodes and hits, but fails to wound on a roll of 2. Only the PBC left to shoot. plaguespitters fail to wound and the assback makes three 3+ saves thanks to cover. Slugger same thing.. Assback is safe! Mortar bombs 4 hits on the LC razor! Dropping it to 1 wound as well!
Phew!
End of the game.
BA: 7 DG: 6 - Whooo!
In the end I had only two razorbacks at 1 wound each alive.
DG had rhino at 5 wounds, bloat-drone at 3 wounds and the PBC at 9.
The first two turns were so brutal. DG vehicles are super durable, 3+ Sv, 5+ inv save, and disgustinly resilient rolls with T7 or T8, man...
As I said, I would probably charge other targets and forget the wraiths. They don't do enough damage by themselves to cripple your army. Only kill them with DC if you can also keep yourself out of rapid fire from other stuff.
you should be in range of the buff from lemartes anyway so the LD isnt a problem.
Honestly, wraiths arent a big issue unless you let them charge your characters or sang guard.
Are DC dreadnaughts actually valid? Mine got wrecked by a Space Wolf leader the other day because the 3++ saved him and then he just poked my Dread with his thinderhammer and he sighed into non existence. What sort of units should he be taking on? Vehicles?
Have you tried the libby dread with wings and quickening, artisan of war on his halberd is murder, but in more comp play he needs a supporting shield of sang caster.. But like all BA dreads, they are fun and brutal in friendly environment, but not that comp. I could see me taking one if I ran stormraven and would use it against threats than can't outperform him in melee. Mobile roadblock/shoot elite removal..
Xirax wrote: Have you tried the libby dread with wings and quickening, artisan of war on his halberd is murder, but in more comp play he needs a supporting shield of sang caster.. But like all BA dreads, they are fun and brutal in friendly environment, but not that comp. I could see me taking one if I ran stormraven and would use it against threats than can't outperform him in melee. Mobile roadblock/shoot elite removal..
@NH gunsmith.. I feel you on your scout comment.
Yeah I tried one of them in the same army who also got blocked by storm shields and also got wrecked by a Space Wolf hero. Though he one manned the Space Wolf flier in the turn before that which was pretty sweet
EDIT: also, random question, what's a grav squad like these days? Grav guns/cannons worth taking? Plasma always seems better but without the risk of blowing yourself up maybe grav has some reason? Or is it like a multi-melta to a las cannon?
NH Gunsmith wrote: Well, after about a dozen games with my Scouts, I find myself wishing that both squads had Bolters instead of pistols & blades.
Been using them mainly to shut down close range deep strikers from getting near my back field gunline and camping objectives, so they almost always end up out of pistol range, or just in pistol range, making charges not worth it.
Anybody else feel the same way?
I have been really happy with my CCW Scouts so far (only played a few games with the new Dex so far). I tend to deploy them forward to deter deep strikers or secure early objectives (depending on whether I am playing eternal war or Maelstrom). OLnce the game is in progress, I often move my Intercessors or Tacs forward to take objectives which leaves the Scouts free to advance and potentially get into CC. So far they have tackled Kroot, Orks and even Bloodletters with satisfactory results.
Having said that, I haven't yet had a game where I wanted to keep them stationary.
Is Slamguinius still the go-to guy to strap The Angel's Wing onto? And how have you guys been using your Librarians?
I have usually been running Slamguinius with Mephiston doing psychic duty. A jump Libby with Wing looks good on paper but Slamguinius just looks better to me for the points.
In my last game, Slamgiunius soloed a Bloodthirster (with the 4++/6+++ Warlord trait) on Turn 1. There are times when I would have appreciated the flexibility of a Libby more (my last battle against Tau springs to mind) but in a TAC list, I think Slamgiunius's great value is the ability to act as a spoiler for even the most powerful LOWs. Having a 129 point model that can delete a 300+ point model in one go is incredibly powerful and can really mess with opponents who are relying on a big heavy-hitter to go through your elite MEQs.
Eihnlazer wrote: As I said, I would probably charge other targets and forget the wraiths. They don't do enough damage by themselves to cripple your army. Only kill them with DC if you can also keep yourself out of rapid fire from other stuff.
you should be in range of the buff from lemartes anyway so the LD isnt a problem.
Honestly, wraiths arent a big issue unless you let them charge your characters or sang guard.
I think you underestimate them. They received an upgrade with the new codex. They dont have to kill my tanks/dreads, all they have to do is tie them up in melee, and they cant shoot anymore.
Like any unit with a good invulnerable save, your options for taking down Wraiths are either massive numbers of basic attacks (easier said than done with T5 and 3 wounds) or Mortal Wounds.
A Heavy bolter or two to make use of the Hellfire Stratagem and a few well places Smites will help to some extent. The Predator autocannon is also pretty efficient here as it has 2D3 shots per turn, each one doing 3 damage so each failed save will delete a complete Wraith.
Ok,
even that noone really comments on these.. but doing another test game, 4x6" table with dense LOS blocks, 1250 points and mission will be ascension.
I'm having hard time figuring out what will be my counter against the following DG list. Any great suggestions? If I manage to beat that, it'll surely have good pointers for killing necron wraiths as well, I suppose.
Karhedron wrote:Like any unit with a good invulnerable save, your options for taking down Wraiths are either massive numbers of basic attacks (easier said than done with T5 and 3 wounds) or Mortal Wounds.
A Heavy bolter or two to make use of the Hellfire Stratagem and a few well places Smites will help to some extent. The Predator autocannon is also pretty efficient here as it has 2D3 shots per turn, each one doing 3 damage so each failed save will delete a complete Wraith.
I have meph with smite and blood boil, cant afford another libby. Predator sounds good, but I'm pretty sure i will face 1 or 2 doomsday arks surrounded by lots of scarabs. Each ark has D6 shots with S10 AP-5 and D6 damage, when standing still. A pred wont last long, one ark can pop it in one turn. A contemptor mortis dreadnought with twin autocannons is 166 pts, it has 5++, BS2+, 8 shots at S7 AP-1 D2. And it uses chapter tactics, vehicles dont. I want to run them as RG, for -1 to hit.
Xirax wrote:Ok,
even that noone really comments on these.. but doing another test game, 4x6" table with dense LOS blocks, 1250 points and mission will be ascension.
I'm having hard time figuring out what will be my counter against the following DG list. Any great suggestions? If I manage to beat that, it'll surely have good pointers for killing necron wraiths as well, I suppose.
Any suggestions? I'll gladly share a similar report if someone felt it any way helpful?
Anything with S8+ is probably the best counter to bloat drones. I think rocket launchers are a good choice, 48" range, and they can be used as anti horde as well. Also you can use the flakk missile stratagem which deals mortal wounds to FLY units. Unfortunately DG works against MW. Lascannons are the better choice for this list, there arent any hordes, but a crawler, which is T8.
This is probably not the best place to share battle reports. There is a battle report section in this forum. I dont mind if you post battle reports here, but you might get more feedback in the battle report section.
Hmm, Dreads should make short work of those Bloat Drones. Libby Dread and/or DC Dread are probably the best choice. At S6, they will be needing 5s to wound the Dreads so they will find it much harder to make a mess of them than our infantry. They only have 9" range guns so they will need to come to you anyway. Backing out of CC and still shooting is annoying but at least we can give chase and wallop them.
Tiberius501 wrote: Is a Twin-heavy flamer Razorback with a stormbolter and squad of 5 tacticals with a heavy flamer and storm bolter any good?
I imagine you'd use it as anti-horde? I don't think flamer is useful at all in eight edition neither are tactical marines. I personally only use scouts for deep strike denial and intercessors as a second screen for my precious triple devastator squad. For anti-horde you can use a stormraven with hurricane bolters, twin heavy bolter and twin assault cannon or maybe inceptors. Intercessors are not too bad neither at this role if they get the chance to shot at something within 15".
Karhedron wrote: Hmm, Dreads should make short work of those Bloat Drones. Libby Dread and/or DC Dread are probably the best choice. At S6, they will be needing 5s to wound the Dreads so they will find it much harder to make a mess of them than our infantry. They only have 9" range guns so they will need to come to you anyway. Backing out of CC and still shooting is annoying but at least we can give chase and wallop them.
Ok,
1250 points of sons of Sanguinius against that 1250 DG bloat-drone spam happening tonight..
Is this what you suggested? Mephy for DP and captain and lib dread against bloat-drones... At least I will drop some of them I hope.
Spoiler:
Batallion
Captain > Angel's wing > thunder hammer > inferno pistol
Mephiston > quickening > wings of sanguinius > shield of sanguinius
Librarian dreadnought > Artisan of War > quickening > wings of sanguinius
Death company dreadnought > magna grapple > meltagun > storm bolter > furioso fists
8x death company > jump packs > 4x power sword > 4x chainsword > 8x boltgun
As for spamming this thread on my battles, I'll stop here.
somewhere I read that Capt Slam can produce Solo a Bloodthirster ;can anybody explain how is that even remotely possible?
I mean I love the dude, but he is 4A 3+ Reroll 1’S with TH. With the DC stratagem, a relic and 3 more CP for 1d3A and 3d6 charges, he goes up to 7A 3+ reroll 1s wound on 2+
My mathammer says that you can get max 9W on him, and that for100 pt Warlord and 4cp which will inevitably die next turn.
It is good, but is not game breaking.
Or am I missing something?
Then you spend 2-3 CP so he can attack again. Plus Artisan trait for 4 damage. “Max” you can get 24 damage without fighting twice. Realistically you can expect 12 W on a standard BT before fighting a second time.
Emicrania wrote: somewhere I read that Capt Slam can produce Solo a Bloodthirster ;can anybody explain how is that even remotely possible?
I mean I love the dude, but he is 4A 3+ Reroll 1’S with TH. With the DC stratagem, a relic and 3 more CP for 1d3A and 3d6 charges, he goes up to 7A 3+ reroll 1s wound on 2+
My mathammer says that you can get max 9W on him, and that for100 pt Warlord and 4cp which will inevitably die next turn.
It is good, but is not game breaking.
Or am I missing something?
Yes, you are missing a lot. Death visions of sanguinius gives him black rage, +1 attack on charge. Unleash rage gives him +1 attack, red rampage gives him +1D3 (average 2) attacks, the sanguinor nearby gives him +1 attack, thats 9 attacks. Artisan of war is 4 damage for his hammer. 9 attacks with 4 damage is 36 damage at best. Now spend 3CP for honor the chapter to fight again. Thats 72 damage in one turn, in theory Does that sound game breaking ?
After a few dud games the first few times out my DC Captain is continuously becoming a force to be reckoned with. He’s a beautiful hybrid of a scalpel and a stick of dynamite. He surgically removes whatever I deem the largest threat, and then he’s gone.
Bremon wrote: After a few dud games the first few times out my DC Captain is continuously becoming a force to be reckoned with. He’s a beautiful hybrid of a scalpel and a stick of dynamite. He surgically removes whatever I deem the largest threat, and then he’s gone.
I'm starting to find my Libby Dread does the same with the right stratagems. Using Quickening and the strat to get d3 more attacks, and Artisan of War, he one turned a knight
Bremon wrote: After a few dud games the first few times out my DC Captain is continuously becoming a force to be reckoned with. He’s a beautiful hybrid of a scalpel and a stick of dynamite. He surgically removes whatever I deem the largest threat, and then he’s gone.
I'm starting to find my Libby Dread does the same with the right stratagems. Using Quickening and the strat to get d3 more attacks, and Artisan of War, he one turned a knight
The problem I’ve had with our special bionic bookkeeper is that he’s even more reliant on dice rolls; one less attack base, doesn’t get +1 on the charge, and Quickening has warp charge 7. Warp charge 7 is practically a coin toss and is basically the difference between the dread being good and bad. -4 AP is a beauty, but he’s almost as reliant on CP as the DC Captain because you need to burn yet another go to get your rerolls of 1s.
He’s also more points, and you don’t get to deep strike. The Captain is cheap; sub-120 points that you can point anywhere there’s an opening. The Librarian is more like driving a truck; if there’s a lot of potential targets he’s great because you can send him on his way and be good to go, but my opinion is he’s more expensive and easier to lose without accomplishing anything of note.
Emicrania wrote: somewhere I read that Capt Slam can produce Solo a Bloodthirster ;can anybody explain how is that even remotely possible?
I mean I love the dude, but he is 4A 3+ Reroll 1’S with TH. With the DC stratagem, a relic and 3 more CP for 1d3A and 3d6 charges, he goes up to 7A 3+ reroll 1s wound on 2+
My mathammer says that you can get max 9W on him, and that for100 pt Warlord and 4cp which will inevitably die next turn.
It is good, but is not game breaking.
Or am I missing something?
Yes, you are missing a lot. Death visions of sanguinius gives him black rage, +1 attack on charge. Unleash rage gives him +1 attack, red rampage gives him +1D3 (average 2) attacks, the sanguinor nearby gives him +1 attack, thats 9 attacks. Artisan of war is 4 damage for his hammer. 9 attacks with 4 damage is 36 damage at best. Now spend 3CP for honor the chapter to fight again. Thats 72 damage in one turn, in theory Does that sound game breaking ?
I have soloed a Bloodthirster in 1 round of combat (and that one was the Warlord so have a 4++ Invulnerable save and a 6+++ to ignore wounds).
Against a monster like that, it will often kill you which means you can save a CP and use "Only in Death does Duty end" to attack again before your Captain expires. It is a lot of CPs but in my view it can often be worth it trash a Lord of War that costs 3 times more points than the Captain and would otherwise rip through your army. If your opponent does not include some sort of monster that requires such a glorious and brutal death, the Captain is still good for attacking normal units and buffing nearby BAs like any other Captain.
That is the beauty of Slamguinius. You can use him as a normal Captain and he works well (especially well with the Relic JP to negate overwatch). But when facing a massive target like a LoW, you can burn a bunch of CPs to turn him into a guided missile of "NOPE!".
That is the beauty of Slamguinius. You can use him as a normal Captain and he works well (especially well with the Relic JP to negate overwatch). But when facing a massive target like a LoW, you can burn a bunch of CPs to turn him into a guided missile of "NOPE!".
You can make him give rerolls for 1-2 turns in your gunline before you upon wings of fire (1CP) him 9" from the enemy. Sometimes I want really gun down something before I start my assault. A rare, but nice to have option in your maneuver deck..
Bremon wrote: After a few dud games the first few times out my DC Captain is continuously becoming a force to be reckoned with. He’s a beautiful hybrid of a scalpel and a stick of dynamite. He surgically removes whatever I deem the largest threat, and then he’s gone.
I'm starting to find my Libby Dread does the same with the right stratagems. Using Quickening and the strat to get d3 more attacks, and Artisan of War, he one turned a knight
The problem is that in order to give the Librarian Dread the trait, he was to be the Warlord. They really aren't built for survivability, so in order to ensure they lay the hurt on something, you have to leave them vulnerable to your opponents return fire/charges. I think augmenting a different warlord with the Librarian Dread is the way to go.
Can we use wings of sanguinius on a librarian with angel's wing? 12+12 movement to deny shooting sounds a nice maneuver to have after deep strike turn..
Xirax wrote: Can we use wings of sanguinius on a librarian with angel's wing? 12+12 movement to deny shooting sounds a nice maneuver to have after deep strike turn..
If you deep strike you can only get an additional 12" move from the wings. Remember that wings changes your movement characteristic to 12" not increases it by that amount. However, you could absolutely DS in, then move 12 with wings, jumping over screens and locking down something for a turn. This ultimately means that librarian will die the next turn due to a charge/shooting
Xirax wrote: Can we use wings of sanguinius on a librarian with angel's wing? 12+12 movement to deny shooting sounds a nice maneuver to have after deep strike turn..
If you deep strike you can only get an additional 12" move from the wings. Remember that wings changes your movement characteristic to 12" not increases it by that amount. However, you could absolutely DS in, then move 12 with wings, jumping over screens and locking down something for a turn. This ultimately means that librarian will die the next turn due to a charge/shooting
Not necessarily. I use a relic jump pack libby to lock down a nasty overwatch unit and then DoA in the sanguinary guard. I just don't take pile in or consolidate moves with the libby.
Xirax wrote: Can we use wings of sanguinius on a librarian with angel's wing? 12+12 movement to deny shooting sounds a nice maneuver to have after deep strike turn..
If you deep strike you can only get an additional 12" move from the wings. Remember that wings changes your movement characteristic to 12" not increases it by that amount. However, you could absolutely DS in, then move 12 with wings, jumping over screens and locking down something for a turn. This ultimately means that librarian will die the next turn due to a charge/shooting
Not necessarily. I use a relic jump pack libby to lock down a nasty overwatch unit and then DoA in the sanguinary guard. I just don't take pile in or consolidate moves with the libby.
Even if you wipe out the unit with SG or DC and consolidate into another one, your opponent will fall back and use other units to shoot the SG/DC. Then they'll go after the Librarian. If they don't, you've got a pretty potent unit running amock in their lines, and it will cause a lot of damage.
Xirax wrote: Can we use wings of sanguinius on a librarian with angel's wing? 12+12 movement to deny shooting sounds a nice maneuver to have after deep strike turn..
If you deep strike you can only get an additional 12" move from the wings. Remember that wings changes your movement characteristic to 12" not increases it by that amount. However, you could absolutely DS in, then move 12 with wings, jumping over screens and locking down something for a turn. This ultimately means that librarian will die the next turn due to a charge/shooting
But don't I get another movement when I succesfully cast a warp charge 5 spell.. So if I survive the first round, then I could potentially move 24" towards another target and charge with a reroll to shut down another overwatch. Lot's of if's I know, but still. I wouldn't want such a thing running around in my backyard.
mokoshkana wrote: Even if you wipe out the unit with SG or DC and consolidate into another one, your opponent will fall back and use other units to shoot the SG/DC. Then they'll go after the Librarian. If they don't, you've got a pretty potent unit running amock in their lines, and it will cause a lot of damage.
This is why I don't tend to drop my best CC units on T1 unless I have to. I prefer to soften up the enemy a little with shooting and then drop in my DC/SG on T2 or T3 to deliver the killing blow. By the time they have done their job, there should be too much left to shoot back.
Xirax wrote: Can we use wings of sanguinius on a librarian with angel's wing? 12+12 movement to deny shooting sounds a nice maneuver to have after deep strike turn..
If you deep strike you can only get an additional 12" move from the wings. Remember that wings changes your movement characteristic to 12" not increases it by that amount. However, you could absolutely DS in, then move 12 with wings, jumping over screens and locking down something for a turn. This ultimately means that librarian will die the next turn due to a charge/shooting
But don't I get another movement when I succesfully cast a warp charge 5 spell.. So if I survive the first round, then I could potentially move 24" towards another target and charge with a reroll to shut down another overwatch. Lot's of if's I know, but still. I wouldn't want such a thing running around in my backyard.
Yes, you do get to move in the psychic phase 12" if you manifest WOS. In the movement phase you can move another 12".
Automatically Appended Next Post: I wonder if this is legal ? Let's say DC wants to charge. Lemartes is in 6". I roll two dice, if I don't make it, I use DoA for lemartes charge reroll. The stratagem says to use it before making a charge roll. A rerolled charge roll is a charge roll, isn't it ? If i make it with two dice there is no need to spend 2CP for DoA.
NH Gunsmith wrote: Well, after about a dozen games with my Scouts, I find myself wishing that both squads had Bolters instead of pistols & blades.
I'm only 3 games in with mine (2 units cc Scouts + 2 units intercessors), but they have really, really exceeded my expectations. The neat thing about them them is the enemy comes right up to them to try and get shots on my backfield or control objectives. Unit of Wraithguard getting you down? Tie them up with Scouts and laugh maniacally. Captain Hammer can't quite down an Avatar? Don't worry, the scouts have his back. A screen full of pox walkers? The scouts have it covered. I even had a unit of scouts kill 3 Windrider bikes.
Is Slamguinius still the go-to guy to strap The Angel's Wing onto? And how have you guys been using your Librarians?
I'm wondering a bit myself. He definitely will get more utility out of it than a libby if he makes his 1st charge. Which is a big IF. You've got a 47.8% chance of making a rerollable 9" charge. If you spend a command point to reroll just one of the dice if the other one is a 5 or 6 on the 1st roll, then your odds of making that charge go up to 55.9%. If a librarian uses Wings of Sanguinius he will always make the charge (if the power goes off). If he uses quicken hes got a 92% without using a CP. So you've got a much higher chance of it being useful on the 1st charge.
It kinda depends what you are facing. I can usually handle non-flamer overwatch if Captain Hammer fails the charge on turn 1. And Captain Hammer usually sticks around longer throughout the game, and the time he needs it most tends to be later in the game. I *think* I'm going to stick with Captain Hammer for now. It's just too easy for someone to get lucky and kill my libby with only 4 wounds and no invul.
p5freak wrote: ... What worries me are the wraiths. They are going to be 55 pts. per model. I except 3-6 of them. They have M12, WS/BS3, T5, S6, W3, A3, Sv4+ and 3++. Their vicious claws are S6, AP-2, D2. They can ignore models and terrain. They can charge and shoot after falling back. I dont see any counter to those....
The answers to 3++ invuls is mortal wounds and Dakka. However, a unit of 10 DC w/ 2 TH supported by Lemartes will kill about 3 Necron Wraiths. Lemartes can pick up 1 - 2 more. At that price point they are more expensive than Kitted out TWC. Since TWC aren't dominating the meta, I'd say Wraiths probably aren't going to either.
In fact to bring it back to my 1st comment, 15 CC Scouts which cost the same as 3 Wraiths are going to win that fight handily.
If the Necrons Charge, the Scouts lose 3-4, and the necrons lose 1 and take 1-2 wounds on another wraith
If the Scouts charge they kill 2 wraiths, and the remaining one only kills 1-2 scouts.
Emicrania wrote: somewhere I read that Capt Slam can produce Solo a Bloodthirster ;can anybody explain how is that even remotely possible?
I mean I love the dude, but he is 4A 3+ Reroll 1’S with TH. With the DC stratagem, a relic and 3 more CP for 1d3A and 3d6 charges, he goes up to 7A 3+ reroll 1s wound on 2+
My mathammer says that you can get max 9W on him, and that for100 pt Warlord and 4cp which will inevitably die next turn.
It is good, but is not game breaking.
Or am I missing something?
Yes, you are missing a lot. Death visions of sanguinius gives him black rage, +1 attack on charge. Unleash rage gives him +1 attack, red rampage gives him +1D3 (average 2) attacks, the sanguinor nearby gives him +1 attack, thats 9 attacks. Artisan of war is 4 damage for his hammer. 9 attacks with 4 damage is 36 damage at best. Now spend 3CP for honor the chapter to fight again. Thats 72 damage in one turn, in theory Does that sound game breaking ?
I’m sorry but that is extremely far fetched, to say the least.
Your hypothetical scenario include no screening units, a successful spell from a librarian, a sanguinor within 6”, all hit, all wounds, an enemy without inv save or FnP and a problemless charge. Is completely out of reality.
I wanna know how to kill a greater daemon with 16W, 4++,6fnp, double screened by 2 units of 30 infantry 5+ daemons. Now given I can DS and spend 2CP for DoA and 1Cp for RT, how in the heck can you bring down a greater daemon with an average of 7A, 6 goes thru, half is blocked by Invu saves, so 4X3 W is 12, 6++ means 10W in total for 120pts of cap that is my warlord, so free VP for my opponent, and a cost of 4Cp and a relic. Having 250pts of hq supporting him is not that functional, imho.
If you're doing 4 damage per wound, only 4 have to go through to kill a 16w model. The math average for 7 attacks hitting on 3, rerolling ones, wounding on 2s, saving on 5++, with a 6+++, is 2.5 unsaved wounds, or 8-12 damage. Is it so far fetched to believe that sometimes the roll ends up with 4 or 5 unsaved wounds?
And if he does spend CP to fight again, this isn't even really a question anymore.
Emicrania wrote: somewhere I read that Capt Slam can produce Solo a Bloodthirster ;can anybody explain how is that even remotely possible?
I mean I love the dude, but he is 4A 3+ Reroll 1’S with TH. With the DC stratagem, a relic and 3 more CP for 1d3A and 3d6 charges, he goes up to 7A 3+ reroll 1s wound on 2+
My mathammer says that you can get max 9W on him, and that for100 pt Warlord and 4cp which will inevitably die next turn.
It is good, but is not game breaking.
Or am I missing something?
Yes, you are missing a lot. Death visions of sanguinius gives him black rage, +1 attack on charge. Unleash rage gives him +1 attack, red rampage gives him +1D3 (average 2) attacks, the sanguinor nearby gives him +1 attack, thats 9 attacks. Artisan of war is 4 damage for his hammer. 9 attacks with 4 damage is 36 damage at best. Now spend 3CP for honor the chapter to fight again. Thats 72 damage in one turn, in theory Does that sound game breaking ?
I’m sorry but that is extremely far fetched, to say the least.
Your hypothetical scenario include no screening units, a successful spell from a librarian, a sanguinor within 6”, all hit, all wounds, an enemy without inv save or FnP and a problemless charge. Is completely out of reality.
I wanna know how to kill a greater daemon with 16W, 4++,6fnp, double screened by 2 units of 30 infantry 5+ daemons. Now given I can DS and spend 2CP for DoA and 1Cp for RT, how in the heck can you bring down a greater daemon with an average of 7A, 6 goes thru, half is blocked by Invu saves, so 4X3 W is 12, 6++ means 10W in total for 120pts of cap that is my warlord, so free VP for my opponent, and a cost of 4Cp and a relic. Having 250pts of hq supporting him is not that functional, imho.
How do you kill a Bloodthirster in 1 turn? By rolling a tiny bit above average (assuming you fight twice) Average wounds is 7.5 in 1 go from 7 attacks (and its 4 damage not 3 if hes your warlord because you will be using Artisan of War).
Chance to kill him without fighting twice is closer to 4%.
Automatically Appended Next Post: On a different note. I'm building a BA battalion to ally into another army (slam captain, bare bone priest, 3x5 scouts). I also have a Culexus assassin in another detachment for some psyker defense.
I was wondering if it would be worth it to drop the Culexus and replace the (mostly useless) priest with Mephiston.
Is he worth it? is 2 denies and his potential better then the - aura from the assassin?
Emicrania wrote: I’m sorry but that is extremely far fetched, to say the least.
Your hypothetical scenario include no screening units, a successful spell from a librarian, a sanguinor within 6”, all hit, all wounds, an enemy without inv save or FnP and a problemless charge. Is completely out of reality.
I wanna know how to kill a greater daemon with 16W, 4++,6fnp, double screened by 2 units of 30 infantry 5+ daemons. Now given I can DS and spend 2CP for DoA and 1Cp for RT, how in the heck can you bring down a greater daemon with an average of 7A, 6 goes thru, half is blocked by Invu saves, so 4X3 W is 12, 6++ means 10W in total for 120pts of cap that is my warlord, so free VP for my opponent, and a cost of 4Cp and a relic. Having 250pts of hq supporting him is not that functional, imho.
Leave all the characters out of it, and spend 2 CP to have you fight again. He gets slay the warlord, but you likely do too, you’ve spent 5 CP, ideally regenerating one of them, but you’ve traded those CP and less than 120 points for 350 points and the most dangerous thing in your opponents army. It’s a good trade off. If you’re not spending 2 CP for “Only in Death Does Duty End” then you aren’t reliably killing the BT. 7x.77777 x 5/6 x1/2 x4 x5/6 = 7.5. So realistically you may have to get a little lucky or burn a CP reroll for wounds because the 6+++ in your scenario tips the scales towards unlikely.
I’m sorry but that is extremely far fetched, to say the least.
Your hypothetical scenario include no screening units, a successful spell from a librarian, a sanguinor within 6”, all hit, all wounds, an enemy without inv save or FnP and a problemless charge. Is completely out of reality.
Its the theoretical maximum damage. Of course, this will never happen.
I wanna know how to kill a greater daemon with 16W, 4++,6fnp, double screened by 2 units of 30 infantry 5+ daemons. Now given I can DS and spend 2CP for DoA and 1Cp for RT, how in the heck can you bring down a greater daemon with an average of 7A, 6 goes thru, half is blocked by Invu saves, so 4X3 W is 12, 6++ means 10W in total for 120pts of cap that is my warlord, so free VP for my opponent, and a cost of 4Cp and a relic. Having 250pts of hq supporting him is not that functional, imho.
Ok, lets leave the sanguinor and the psychic power out of it. 7 attacks, hitting on 3s, rerolling 1s are 5 hits, wounding on 2s, 4 wounds. You save half of it with your 4++, 8 damage comes through. You 6+++ saves one wound, so its 7 damage. Now i spend 3 CP to fight again. Which is another 7 damage. With a little bit of luck i make more damage, or you roll bad on your invuln sv, or FNP, and your bloodthirster is dead.
I’m sorry but that is extremely far fetched, to say the least.
Your hypothetical scenario include no screening units, a successful spell from a librarian, a sanguinor within 6”, all hit, all wounds, an enemy without inv save or FnP and a problemless charge. Is completely out of reality.
Its the theoretical maximum damage. Of course, this will never happen.
I wanna know how to kill a greater daemon with 16W, 4++,6fnp, double screened by 2 units of 30 infantry 5+ daemons. Now given I can DS and spend 2CP for DoA and 1Cp for RT, how in the heck can you bring down a greater daemon with an average of 7A, 6 goes thru, half is blocked by Invu saves, so 4X3 W is 12, 6++ means 10W in total for 120pts of cap that is my warlord, so free VP for my opponent, and a cost of 4Cp and a relic. Having 250pts of hq supporting him is not that functional, imho.
Killshot predator autocannons with capt/lt bubble.
NH Gunsmith wrote: Well, after about a dozen games with my Scouts, I find myself wishing that both squads had Bolters instead of pistols & blades.
Bolters+Pistols generally are better than Pistol+CCW, unless your basic attack is somehow stronger htan a boltgun or your WS is better htan your BS (neither of whichi are true for Scouts in most cases, even BA it's questionable).
Emicrania wrote: That sounds more doable, i still wonder how you deliver your Cap. Do you DS ? Have him in Stormraven? Or do you footslog him?
If there’s something notably problematic in my opponent’s list then I blow all my CP on a suicide Captain in a blaze of glory. 1 CP for DC, 1 gets spent on having 2 relics (angel’s wing for Captain, VV on a lieutenant), 2 for Descent of Angels, 1 for Red Rampage, and 2 for Only In Death. Angel’s Wing is fairly necessary in my eyes because having the charge not go off means you’ve served up free points and Slay the Warlord on a silver platter.
What role does mephiston normally server for you guys?
In my limited games with him, I've found that he is generally a Linebacker confronting my enemy's Fast / Deep strike threats. His lack of deployment options keep him from keeping up with my Death Company / Captain Hammer / Lemartes.
tag8833 wrote: What role does mephiston normally server for you guys?
In my limited games with him, I've found that he is generally a Linebacker confronting my enemy's Fast / Deep strike threats. His lack of deployment options keep him from keeping up with my Death Company / Captain Hammer / Lemartes.
Drop pods work well with him. Crush in a dev squad and a vet squad for extra kicks. I find he's best when paired with empyric channeling so he can get that cheap quickening off.
tag8833 wrote: What role does mephiston normally server for you guys?
In my limited games with him, I've found that he is generally a Linebacker confronting my enemy's Fast / Deep strike threats. His lack of deployment options keep him from keeping up with my Death Company / Captain Hammer / Lemartes.
He moves 19" and re-rolls charges. With another potential +3" to charge (less likely to succeed on a 7 then the move on a 5). A turn 1 charge is not unreasonable at all. How can he not keep up?
Ordana wrote: He moves 19" and re-rolls charges. With another potential +3" to charge (less likely to succeed on a 7 then the move on a 5). A turn 1 charge is not unreasonable at all. How can he not keep up?
My deep strike bundle (Death Company, Lemartes, Captain Hammer, JP Libby) all deep strike together in a group. Generally as deep into my enemy's backfield as I can get. I usually want the +3" charge for my JP libby to give him the extra attacks, and a T1 charge, So Mephy gets a 19" move starting from behind a screen. He picks the target of opportunity closest to him which is usually enemy deep strikers / fast stuff. It's easy for him to outrun the rest of my non-deep striking army, and I don't really want Mephy out front.
So how have you guys been doing with Brigade Detachment armies? And what have you been using? I have been thinking of going from a double Battalion & Spearhead army at 2,000 points to a full Brigade.
Emicrania wrote: That sounds more doable, i still wonder how you deliver your Cap. Do you DS ? Have him in Stormraven? Or do you footslog him?
If there’s something notably problematic in my opponent’s list then I blow all my CP on a suicide Captain in a blaze of glory. 1 CP for DC, 1 gets spent on having 2 relics (angel’s wing for Captain, VV on a lieutenant), 2 for Descent of Angels, 1 for Red Rampage, and 2 for Only In Death. Angel’s Wing is fairly necessary in my eyes because having the charge not go off means you’ve served up free points and Slay the Warlord on a silver platter.
This is exactly right, one thing I tought was important to notice is that Red Thirst and Honour the chapter can’t be used togheter since they are both activated in the Fight phase. So again, we almost want our captain to die in order to activate OiD. Otherwise there are very slim chances to solo a BT. Extremely thin.
Emicrania wrote: That sounds more doable, i still wonder how you deliver your Cap. Do you DS ? Have him in Stormraven? Or do you footslog him?
If there’s something notably problematic in my opponent’s list then I blow all my CP on a suicide Captain in a blaze of glory. 1 CP for DC, 1 gets spent on having 2 relics (angel’s wing for Captain, VV on a lieutenant), 2 for Descent of Angels, 1 for Red Rampage, and 2 for Only In Death. Angel’s Wing is fairly necessary in my eyes because having the charge not go off means you’ve served up free points and Slay the Warlord on a silver platter.
This is exactly right, one thing I tought was important to notice is that Red Thirst and Honour the chapter can’t be used togheter since they are both activated in the Fight phase. So again, we almost want our captain to die in order to activate OiD. Otherwise there are very slim chances to solo a BT. Extremely thin.
Why can't I use both?
The limit is each strat only be used once per phase, not only one strat per phase.
I’m sure he meant Red Rampage, but yeah, you can use both.
Hammer Capt (not even DC version) last night was a rocket in my weekly game against Death Guard. We played the eternal war patrol mission from CA; I rolled miserably which meant my
SG, one unit of DC, Capt and Lt started on the table. I got second turn. It came down to a dice roll in the end, which I lost. If it had ended on turn 6, but it went one more and a drone mowed down a squad of intercessors because I whiffed 5 5+ saves lol. Highlight for me was the hammer Captain got buffed by Unleash Rage, and 3 attacks off Red Rampage meant that after the Libby smote a Blightlord off the table, the Captain then killed 4 more and a Daemon Prince with the 4+++ warlord trait. Only in Death was the knife the DP’s heart, forcing another 16 DR on the Prince.
Hey, what kinda gunlines you guys use? NH gunsmith had a triple devs with ML. I've been using 1-2 units of singles of PC, LC, ML and cherub in a squad.
I'm on a mission to beat DG and the horde of bloat-drones.. DG seems so hard for me to gun down. I'm looking at the predator autocannons to give me extra punch, but they are number 1 targets for any anti-tank weaponry. Still those bloat-drones are so fast and resilient that when they get their flamers in range of my devs or what ever infantry unit, it's bye bye.
My last 1250 game is in the batrep section where you wanted it . I'm playing again a 1500 game soon. Thursday is a gaming day against ad mech or dark eldar me thinks, but before or after it. I'd appreciate some suggestions how in the feth I get those pesky DG vehicles down a PBC can be tarpitted and tracked, but those flyers just keep on flying and torching. I've been that guy at rolling terribly against DG lately, but you can't blame the dice for everything, can you.
DG has some good elements too, 18" rapid fire range on plasma.. T5 marines, 5+ DR throws and all those vehicles have T7/8 with 5+ invul. save on top of that.
1. So what kinda gunlines you use at ~1500 points? 2. I'm thinking putting the capt. slam along with a stock lieutenant within my gunline for 1-2 turns before I redeploy the captain if needed and use it as normal himself. Does that sound like the worst idea ever? 3. btw, can I use DoA with the captain/any unit that has been redeployed with the upon wings of fire stratagem, RAW seems to let me at least.
As for Mephiston and his usage. I've either had him circled by tacticals or scouts or lately in a razorback just in case don't happen to go first. Then with after a turn in a razor or straight WoS I've gone towards toughest reachable target. I think I already mentioned this a while back, but in my last game against RG he soloed two intercessor squads and three primaris characters in three turns.
Company Ancient [4 PL, 63pts]: Boltgun, Standard of Sacrifice
Death Company [18 PL, 236pts]: Jump Pack
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Power fist
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Power fist
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Power fist
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
1. So what kinda gunlines you use at ~1500 points?
2. I'm thinking putting the capt. slam along with a stock lieutenant within my gunline for 1-2 turns before I redeploy the captain if needed and use it as normal himself. Does that sound like the worst idea ever?
3. btw, can I use DoA with the captain/any unit that has been redeployed with the upon wings of fire stratagem, RAW seems to let me at least.
1. Against DG and bloat drones i wouldnt run autocannon preds. Use lascannon preds or lascannon razorbacks. Preds can form a spearhead detachment and use killshot, razorbacks cant, but they are 20 pts. cheaper, and can carry infantry. You could place two company vets with 4 inferno pistols inside. Three of those are a vanguard detachment. Dreadnoughts are a good counter against plaguespitter drones. Use contemptors, they can keep up with them. Remember you dont have to play pure BA. Your devs could be RG or IH. Same for dreads, they have chapter tactics, vehicles dont.
2. I think its a good idea.
3. Yes, you can.
If specifically tooling against DG then a few missile launchers put in work as well. They’re as good as lascannons against almost everything, and the a few frag missiles can instill the fear of the God-Emperor into cultist squads.
Bremon wrote: If specifically tooling against DG then a few missile launchers put in work as well. They’re as good as lascannons against almost everything, and the a few frag missiles can instill the fear of the God-Emperor into cultist squads.
People talk down about Missile Launchers, but I love them. Nothing better than removing two 10 man units of Electropriests with nothing but Frag Missiles before the Death Company charge in and kill/tie up all your opponents shooting.
I face T8 vehicles with such rarity that the lesser strength of the Missiles versus Lascannon hasn't been an issue.
Bremon wrote: If specifically tooling against DG then a few missile launchers put in work as well. They’re as good as lascannons against almost everything, and the a few frag missiles can instill the fear of the God-Emperor into cultist squads.
People talk down about Missile Launchers, but I love them. Nothing better than removing two 10 man units of Electropriests with nothing but Frag Missiles before the Death Company charge in and kill/tie up all your opponents shooting.
I face T8 vehicles with such rarity that the lesser strength of the Missiles versus Lascannon hasn't been an issue.
That's a meta shift that I am calling now. Missile launchers are better vs all three codices that just dropped. BUT IG is so fething obnoxious that I'm scared to switch out any lascannons.
Yep I’ve followed some great advice in this thread and my last two Devs from the two boxes I bought are missile launchers. The lack of strength doesn’t matter against my regular opponents outside of an Exocrine and a PBC but th -3 AP of a lascannon is of no use comparatively against a Hive Tyrant, or Daemon engines.
Bremon wrote: Yep I’ve followed some great advice in this thread and my last two Devs from the two boxes I bought are missile launchers. The lack of strength doesn’t matter against my regular opponents outside of an Exocrine and a PBC but th -3 AP of a lascannon is of no use comparatively against a Hive Tyrant, or Daemon engines.
Bremon wrote: Yep I’ve followed some great advice in this thread and my last two Devs from the two boxes I bought are missile launchers. The lack of strength doesn’t matter against my regular opponents outside of an Exocrine and a PBC but th -3 AP of a lascannon is of no use comparatively against a Hive Tyrant, or Daemon engines.
Or Riptides.
Or Raiders.
But it's critical vs Leman Russ.
True, but Mephy and the Death Company have become quite adept at finishing off Leman Russes that are wounded. That, and I don't necessarily have to kill them. Continually forcing them to fall back with an Angel's Wing Librarian plus Death Company works as well.
Martel732 wrote: I can't reach them with Mephy or DC. Too many 4 pt models in the way. Sometimes, 30" of them; if they go first.
If they've got lots of bodies, it means multiple squads. Here is a CP heavy trick that might help out, especially against IG.
1) Assault a screen with a unit of death company (how you get there is up to you).
2) Kill that squad, consolidate 3" towards the nearest other squad..
3) Spend 3 CP on Hounour thy chapter to activate the Death company a 2nd time.
4) Pile in and consolidate into the other screen making sure to use your effective 9" movement (consolidate after 1st assault, Pile in and Consolidate on 2nd attack) to surround an enemy model.
Because screen 2 wasn't a target of your assault you can't fight against it. They can't fall back, because one of their models are surrounded so the DC is safe from shooting.
Because the Characters are farther away from the DC, they can't target Mephy or captain hammer.
Hopefully the DC can kill screen 2 on your opponent's turn, though a savvy opponent will charge something else in to keep them tied up. It usually will burn through most of your CP, but it will also usually win you the game.
Martel732 wrote: I can't reach them with Mephy or DC. Too many 4 pt models in the way. Sometimes, 30" of them; if they go first.
...They don't always have to come in Turn 1. 16d6 Frag Missile shots from my army tends to clear hordes out nicely. Also, depending on how my opponent deploys my Libby can Wings over his screen and touch both the tanks and an infantry squad.
Hi all. With Devs being the current conversation topic I thought I would ask what everyone thought of this spearhead detachment as part of a 2k list I'm constructing for fighting in a marine/primaris/DG heavy meta.
The lieutenant is for his buff and no other reason as the re-roll to wound is just to handy against my regular opponent's. Also remember this is just a single detachment in my force and a captain and a relic banner will hopefully be backing them up from other section's of my list, in an ideal world that is. The GC are in also to allow me to try a grav bomb in the future. Maybe pair them up with Sternguard in a pod or in a rhino with X maybe or even a razorback. The multi-wound damage from the GC I'm finding is hurting DG especially as it cause's multiple DR roll's and on a 3+ a primaris dies outright after wounding once.
Picture, description and list of all option's available, alternative's and possible double spearhead for those who are interested:
Spoiler:
As for alternative's I have another 5 man squad with 3 HF but they are quickly on their way to being HB's for dealing with chaff and such. I also have 2 other LC and 1 GC and 1 HB from my tac squad's in my battalion that are also probably soon to be replaced by an IG battalion as I hate the scout model's and tacs just seem to be really lacklustre and I own no intercessors yet. This could give me optional unit's and weapon's for the unit's or even give me 6 HS when I include my Baal predator and then 2 detachment's possibly. A 4th GC for the GC unit, even though I don't like unit's full of the same weapons usually, and 2 more unit's with 1xLC and 2xHB are possible with what I have and also give's me some chaff clearer's. Or I could even keep the HF's and just lob all the tac squad's weapon's in 1 unit of 2xLC, 1xGC,1xHB. I can also fling in 2 razorback's 1x twin LC, 1 x twin AC to really amp the firepower up.
Additional detachment/unit's/option's:
Jump Cap : Power sword, storm bolter,
Baal pred: hvy bolter's, s-bolter,
Devs(5): 3xHF, bolter dude, sarge,
Devs(5): 2x LC, 2x HBorGC or just bolters.
In fact if i give the 2 guy's the bolter it's only 496 for the 2nd detachment meaning i could get both for under 1k. This would get all of my heavy weapon's used and also help me get rid of the Tac squad's from my list but keep or improve my firepower.
I think that covers most of the basic's for what I'm fighting most these day's and some of the reason's why I'm using what I'm using and possible alternative's. Does anyone have any other suggestion's or better idea's or even warning's for me before I try it?
Also 500th post woo hoo go me and it only took me 7 and a half year's
Having not run Devs I wouldn't know, but I wonder if the Flakk Missile and Hellfire shells strategem make it useful to put one ML and one HB in most Dev squads. Probably the CP isn't worth it in most scenarios, but it's an extra tool in the arsenal.
I remember a tourney at the end of 6th where my buddy played a guy running 2 units of Devs that was 1 ML, 1 HB, 1 LC, and 1 PC. He laughed about how this guy must be new, and that he is probably running exactly what comes in the box. I'm actually pretty happy that 8th ed is less punishing to new players in the way that 6th and 7th were.
Company Ancient [4 PL, 63pts]: Boltgun, Standard of Sacrifice
Death Company [18 PL, 224pts]: Jump Pack
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Power fist
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Power fist
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
Devastator Squad [8 PL, 145pts]: Armorium Cherub
. Space Marine: Missile launcher
. Space Marine: Missile launcher
. Space Marine: Missile launcher
. Space Marine: Boltgun
. Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun
Devastator Squad [8 PL, 145pts]: Armorium Cherub
. Space Marine: Missile launcher
. Space Marine: Missile launcher
. Space Marine: Missile launcher
. Space Marine: Boltgun
. Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun
Devastator Squad [8 PL, 145pts]: Armorium Cherub
. Space Marine: Missile launcher
. Space Marine: Missile launcher
. Space Marine: Missile launcher
. Space Marine: Boltgun
. Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun
Devastator Squad [8 PL, 145pts]: Armorium Cherub
. Space Marine: Missile launcher
. Space Marine: Missile launcher
. Space Marine: Missile launcher
. Space Marine: Boltgun
. Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun
++ Total: [120 PL, 2000pts] ++
The beauty of keeping the Standard of Sacrifice near the Devs, is even if I don't get first turn, any shooting at the Devs gives me the chance to fire Frag Missiles at the screens during my opponents turn.
Most people have been reluctant to shoot at them anymore since it can be painful losing a vehicle (or Ghostkeel like in my last game) in their turn.
The 4 Scout squads keep my gunline safe from deep striking units for the most part, with the Bolter Scouts in the rear.
tag8833 wrote: Having not run Devs I wouldn't know, but I wonder if the Flakk Missile and Hellfire shells strategem make it useful to put one ML and one HB in most Dev squads. Probably the CP isn't worth it in most scenarios, but it's an extra tool in the arsenal.
I remember a tourney at the end of 6th where my buddy played a guy running 2 units of Devs that was 1 ML, 1 HB, 1 LC, and 1 PC. He laughed about how this guy must be new, and that he is probably running exactly what comes in the box. I'm actually pretty happy that 8th ed is less punishing to new players in the way that 6th and 7th were.
I have never used those Strategems (Flakk or Hellfire), I run out of CP too quickly to even consider them. But, 4 units of Devs generally take care of any flying units with ease when supported by a Captain and LT.
The beauty of keeping the Standard of Sacrifice near the Devs, is even if I don't get first turn, any shooting at the Devs gives me the chance to fire Frag Missiles at the screens during my opponents turn.
Most people have been reluctant to shoot at them anymore since it can be painful losing a vehicle (or Ghostkeel like in my last game) in their turn.
You do know that the standard of sacrifice only works on a model basis, not unit ? I wonder how you fit so many models next to the ancient. Only models within 6" get the 5+++, same for the 4+ roll to shoot before they die.
The beauty of keeping the Standard of Sacrifice near the Devs, is even if I don't get first turn, any shooting at the Devs gives me the chance to fire Frag Missiles at the screens during my opponents turn.
Most people have been reluctant to shoot at them anymore since it can be painful losing a vehicle (or Ghostkeel like in my last game) in their turn.
You do know that the standard of sacrifice only works on a model basis, not unit ? I wonder how you fit so many models next to the ancient. Only models within 6" get the 5+++, same for the 4+ roll to shoot before they die.
That s pretty easy: stick the three dev units close to each others and the guy with the banner right behind them. You ll easily reach them all.
The beauty of keeping the Standard of Sacrifice near the Devs, is even if I don't get first turn, any shooting at the Devs gives me the chance to fire Frag Missiles at the screens during my opponents turn.
Most people have been reluctant to shoot at them anymore since it can be painful losing a vehicle (or Ghostkeel like in my last game) in their turn.
You do know that the standard of sacrifice only works on a model basis, not unit ? I wonder how you fit so many models next to the ancient. Only models within 6" get the 5+++, same for the 4+ roll to shoot before they die.
I do know it works on a model, not unit basis. With the loss of templates there is nothing stopping me from making a bit ol' blob of Devs around the banner. It is essentially a 12" circular bubble... It isn't hard to fit 20 Marines in a 12" circular bubble.
The beauty of keeping the Standard of Sacrifice near the Devs, is even if I don't get first turn, any shooting at the Devs gives me the chance to fire Frag Missiles at the screens during my opponents turn.
Most people have been reluctant to shoot at them anymore since it can be painful losing a vehicle (or Ghostkeel like in my last game) in their turn.
You do know that the standard of sacrifice only works on a model basis, not unit ? I wonder how you fit so many models next to the ancient. Only models within 6" get the 5+++, same for the 4+ roll to shoot before they die.
I do know it works on a model, not unit basis. With the loss of templates there is nothing stopping me from making a bit ol' blob of Devs around the banner. It is essentially a 12" circular bubble... It isn't hard to fit 20 Marines in a 12" circular bubble.
Ok, but are they out in the open ? I can't imagine placing a 12" circular bubble on the first or second floor of a ruin. Even on the ground floor not everyone can draw LOS. Not everyone can shoot. Isn't 4 dev squads overdoing it ?
The beauty of keeping the Standard of Sacrifice near the Devs, is even if I don't get first turn, any shooting at the Devs gives me the chance to fire Frag Missiles at the screens during my opponents turn.
Most people have been reluctant to shoot at them anymore since it can be painful losing a vehicle (or Ghostkeel like in my last game) in their turn.
You do know that the standard of sacrifice only works on a model basis, not unit ? I wonder how you fit so many models next to the ancient. Only models within 6" get the 5+++, same for the 4+ roll to shoot before they die.
I do know it works on a model, not unit basis. With the loss of templates there is nothing stopping me from making a bit ol' blob of Devs around the banner. It is essentially a 12" circular bubble... It isn't hard to fit 20 Marines in a 12" circular bubble.
Ok, but are they out in the open ? I can't imagine placing a 12" circular bubble on the first or second floor of a ruin. Even on the ground floor not everyone can draw LOS. Not everyone can shoot. Isn't 4 dev squads overdoing it ?
With GW terrain, very little actually blocks line of sight with the ruins. I haven't had many issues with not having a target to slam Missiles into. There may be one squad in the open, but that is acceptable to me, they still have a 5+ FnP from the banner, and a 4+ to shoot in the enemy's turn if they do die.
And I don't think I am overdoing it, one of my regular opponents brings over 60 Tzaangors, 4 Vortex Beasts, 9 of the stupid disc riders, and 4 Tzeentch Daemon Princes. Our Tau player runs around 40 Drones protecting his Coldstar, 2 Ghostkeels and 3 Broadsides. A Tyranid player with around 150 models between the Genestealers and Gaunts, a Daemons player who has 36 Flamers in his army, and a Guard player with 7-8 Russes and a Basilisk.
Martel732 wrote: He is NOT overdoing it. I'm thinking how I can work this concept into my lists.
Yeah, although we are good a punching stuff in the face, we still shoot just as well as Marines. And with the Banner our Devs have better survivability than Iron Hands, while still being a force that most T3 characters are reluctant to charge.
A few games ago a desperate Sisters player charged my Devs with Celestine and her Geminae. The Geminae died to mass Frag Missile overwatch, and Celestine even took a wound. My Devs also kept getting to punch her back as they died, stripping more wounds off and leaving her pray for the buff Captain who had Artisan of War as his melee trait that game. My gunline wins games, my Death Company buy time for the gunline to keep shooting.
Watched too many bat reps for Blood Angels where the player takes almost nothing but assault units, and wonders why he keep failing charges and getting blasted off the board.
I’m sorry if this has been discussed before or is too off topic, but I’m debating whether to take Vanguard Vets with Power Axes and Storm Shields or a unit of Sanguinary Guard in my 1250 points list. In terms of tactical ability, do you think the VV with no ranged weaponry would serve better? They would b much more effective against heavy infantry and have more attacks, but lack power fists. Both can be dropped with the strategem for charges. The VV seem to be the better shield, but SG have a higher armour save. Tactically, I’m stuck.
The sang guard are generally more durable against anything that is 1 damage or has low ish AP. They also will do more damage to multi-wound models with their D3 damage. They are more susceptible to plasma, melta, las, etc, though.
I've done a "is he alright?" level of math trying to justify Vanguard Vets. Basically They are more durable against Overcharged Plasma and Melta then SG. My opinion is that you don't need to run the entire squad with SS, just 3-4. They don't hit nearly as hard as DC (who are more durable against bolters, and basically the same durability vs Assault Cannons). Against anything with more than 1 wound, SG hit harder than VV.
VV have 3 things going for them.
1) Storm Shields.
2) Lightening Claws.
3) Melta Bombs.
Power Axes are worse against most things than power swords. T4 models with bad saves like Orks being the exception. Though power axes and power swords aren't significantly different.
I'd say if you are picking one unit for 1250, I'd go either SG or DC. VV have some charm as a 2nd / backup unit. SG benefit dramatically from the standard of sacrifice (probably on a sanguinary ancient).
I'm building towards a 10 man squad of VV to use as a change of pace unit and my plan is 2 double LC's, 3 SS + CS, and 5 with CS + BP with melta bombs on the sarg, and I'll frequently be looking to combat squad them.
I doubt they will ever make one of my tourney lists though.
Decay wrote: I’m sorry if this has been discussed before or is too off topic, but I’m debating whether to take Vanguard Vets with Power Axes and Storm Shields or a unit of Sanguinary Guard in my 1250 points list. In terms of tactical ability, do you think the VV with no ranged weaponry would serve better? They would b much more effective against heavy infantry and have more attacks, but lack power fists. Both can be dropped with the strategem for charges. The VV seem to be the better shield, but SG have a higher armour save. Tactically, I’m stuck.
Why VV ? Company vets cost the same points, and you can equip them with almost everything, except heavy weapons.
Decay wrote: I’m sorry if this has been discussed before or is too off topic, but I’m debating whether to take Vanguard Vets with Power Axes and Storm Shields or a unit of Sanguinary Guard in my 1250 points list. In terms of tactical ability, do you think the VV with no ranged weaponry would serve better? They would b much more effective against heavy infantry and have more attacks, but lack power fists. Both can be dropped with the strategem for charges. The VV seem to be the better shield, but SG have a higher armour save. Tactically, I’m stuck.
Why VV ? Company vets cost the same points, and you can equip them with almost everything, except heavy weapons.
There is a nonzero chance company vets will lose jump packs in the future. I suspect the indices will be illegal after all codices are done.
Decay wrote: I’m sorry if this has been discussed before or is too off topic, but I’m debating whether to take Vanguard Vets with Power Axes and Storm Shields or a unit of Sanguinary Guard in my 1250 points list. In terms of tactical ability, do you think the VV with no ranged weaponry would serve better? They would b much more effective against heavy infantry and have more attacks, but lack power fists. Both can be dropped with the strategem for charges. The VV seem to be the better shield, but SG have a higher armour save. Tactically, I’m stuck.
Why VV ? Company vets cost the same points, and you can equip them with almost everything, except heavy weapons.
There is a nonzero chance company vets will lose jump packs in the future. I suspect the indices will be illegal after all codices are done.
There is a nonzero chance company vets will gain jump packs in the future, when indices will no longer be valid, if that ever happens.
Why not just build out a 5 man squad of Company Veterans with jump packs that are armed with options also available to Vanguard Veterans? Then, you can use them as either-or, and don't have to worry about it?
I'm currently running a 5 man squad of Company Veterans with jump packs, equipped as follows: 2x w/ Chainswords & Storm Shields 1x w/ Power Axe & Storm Shield 1x w/ Power Fist & Storm Shield Sergeant w/ Thunder Hammer & Inferno Pistol
I can put them on the table as either Company or Vanguard Veterans armed this way and work well when fighting big hard hitting targets where their storm shields can ward off the big blows with reasonable effectiveness.
Decay wrote: I’m sorry if this has been discussed before or is too off topic, but I’m debating whether to take Vanguard Vets with Power Axes and Storm Shields or a unit of Sanguinary Guard in my 1250 points list. In terms of tactical ability, do you think the VV with no ranged weaponry would serve better? They would b much more effective against heavy infantry and have more attacks, but lack power fists. Both can be dropped with the strategem for charges. The VV seem to be the better shield, but SG have a higher armour save. Tactically, I’m stuck.
Why VV ? Company vets cost the same points, and you can equip them with almost everything, except heavy weapons.
There is a nonzero chance company vets will lose jump packs in the future. I suspect the indices will be illegal after all codices are done.
There is a nonzero chance company vets will gain jump packs in the future, when indices will no longer be valid, if that ever happens.
That would require GW to make a new company vet box. And I think there is a 0% chance we will see none Primaris marines going forward.
(yes you can make JP company vets out of a different box but that is not how GW operates. The units and options being left out of codexes don't have a dedicated model for them)
Decay wrote: I’m sorry if this has been discussed before or is too off topic, but I’m debating whether to take Vanguard Vets with Power Axes and Storm Shields or a unit of Sanguinary Guard in my 1250 points list. In terms of tactical ability, do you think the VV with no ranged weaponry would serve better? They would b much more effective against heavy infantry and have more attacks, but lack power fists. Both can be dropped with the strategem for charges. The VV seem to be the better shield, but SG have a higher armour save. Tactically, I’m stuck.
Why VV ? Company vets cost the same points, and you can equip them with almost everything, except heavy weapons.
There is a nonzero chance company vets will lose jump packs in the future. I suspect the indices will be illegal after all codices are done.
There is a nonzero chance company vets will gain jump packs in the future, when indices will no longer be valid, if that ever happens.
That would require GW to make a new company vet box. And I think there is a 0% chance we will see none Primaris marines going forward.
(yes you can make JP company vets out of a different box but that is not how GW operates. The units and options being left out of codexes don't have a dedicated model for them)
...except for Librarians with Jump Packs. No model but they somehow made the Codex.
Ordana wrote: That would require GW to make a new company vet box. And I think there is a 0% chance we will see none Primaris marines going forward.
(yes you can make JP company vets out of a different box but that is not how GW operates. The units and options being left out of codexes don't have a dedicated model for them)
Does GW have all equipment for every model in the codex ? No they dont. There is a dread with multimelta in the codex. But you cant buy it. There is no multimelta for dreads from GW. I'm pretty sure there is more missing equipment across the whole range. Do primaris intercessors come with a powersword in the box ? No, they dont. According to the codex, the sarge can be equipped with a powersword. The BA intercessor sarge can get a chainsword or powersword. There is a chainsword, because there is a BA upgrade sprue included. But no powersword.
I had the list tailored match against DG last night, rep can be found in the rep section. I used a melta tactical squad and two predators with autocannons, DG lacked anti-tank so it helped against drones. But those flamers just burn through my chaff with ease. Capt hammer fought against a DP.. All in all it was a brutal fight where I think I should have had more aggressive strategy. My plasma cannon in my dev squad made me deploy them closest to enemy in disastrous results.
I'm finishing my devs for next game:
3 devs all with cherubs, two 2x ML, 1x PC squads and one with 2x LC and a PC. For a 1500 points adding both an ancient and noviate feels too much. I've found my SG always perform in multi-purpose unit and they have lot better survivability than DC. Now, if I give the banner of sacrifice to the gunline ancient then SG loses some edge. The game I mentioned I had my SG ancient my warlord with the sacred banner running with SG, I kinda liked it. Can I just bring DC for distraction without Lemmy or is he a must, ehst do you think?
Martel732 wrote: I shoot them first. And that's why my TAC lists frequently have Stalkers. Spam them down with autocannon hits.
I just dump Missiles into them haha. I just didn't like the way Stalkers looked, they seem effective in the matchups they sre good. How have they been against non-flying units?
I'm finishing my devs for next game:
3 devs all with cherubs, two 2x ML, 1x PC squads and one with 2x LC and a PC. For a 1500 points adding both an ancient and noviate feels too much. I've found my SG always perform in multi-purpose unit and they have lot better survivability than DC. Now, if I give the banner of sacrifice to the gunline ancient then SG loses some edge. The game I mentioned I had my SG ancient my warlord with the sacred banner running with SG, I kinda liked it. Can I just bring DC for distraction without Lemmy or is he a must, ehst do you think?
Well, yes, you can totally bring Death Company as a distraction. But for that distraction to be effective it has to be intimidating, and force the enemy to deal with it. Something like a small DC squad running around unsupported isn't scary enough to be a proper distraction. They still die like normal Marines, however using Forlorn Fury on them can really hurt your CP cache, and dropping them in without the 3d6 charge often means they will fail and just die without contributing much besides a few Bolter shots (woo-hoo I guess?), and takes that strategem away from you Sanguinary Guard. Lemartes gives them that opportunity to make it in if your just going to try and stick the charge on 2d6, while saving you a CP in the process from most likely trying to reroll one of their charge dice.
Plus, I love Lemartes, in my last 1,500 point game against the new Tau Codex he killed 5 Crisis Suits, a Coldstar Commander, and knocked off around 1/3 of Longstrike's wounds before it was finished off by the Death Company... And all of this was by turn 2. My opponent conceded turn 2 because he only had a single squad of Pathfinders left. You could probably get away with running your Death Company all with just Bolter and Chainsword to save points, and keep Lemartes as the DC's backup and beat stick. That makes them a problem that cannot be ignored by an opponent, and makes for a better distraction.
That works, too. The Stalker is just a favorite of mine because of its price and ability to wear down nearly any <fly> unit. The Stalker also works very well vs ghost arks, where the krak missile can suffer there.
In my first turn in that game I had a captain and a lieutenant in the gunline. Both preds with pred autocannon and las sponsons, twin AC and rapid firing bolter, overcharged plasma cannon and a missile launcher at a single bloat-drone and didn't get first blood.. They need a lot of shots and the next turn drones reached my lines and burned chaff..
Xirax wrote: In my first turn in that game I had a captain and a lieutenant in the gunline. Both preds with pred autocannon and las sponsons, twin AC and rapid firing bolter, overcharged plasma cannon and a missile launcher at a single bloat-drone and didn't get first blood.. They need a lot of shots and the next turn drones reached my lines and burned chaff..
It's been like that for me every game. I throw horribly and T7 (with or without miasma or putrescent vitality) make those invuls or DR saves.. And even at 4 wounds they move 8" and can shoot those spitters after advance.. Ok, only at S5, but still..
My dice are jinxed against DG.. It must be! In the gsme before, also in the rep sect DG had 3 bloat-drones and the PBC contesting my lines.
So,
NH gunsmith style BA gunline(ish).. ok single plasma cannons are against 2W (DS) threats, they are imho actually nice to have with the signum in singles.. Still this feel so weird to have so little jump force for aggression, ok Mephy and characters can solo stuff and the captain can move later in the game with upon wings of fire.. but is this what we're at?
Company Ancient [4 PL, 63pts]: Chainsword, Standard of Sacrifice
Death Company [18 PL, 180pts]: Jump Pack
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
So you need 5 of them with a captain and a lt nearby to drop an average of one drone per turn.
Predators are better. You need 3 tri-las or 4 auto/Las.
I don't think so. Preds are fragile for their points. Stalkers aren't. And have utility vs a lot of other lists. Bloat drones are hard to bring down in general.
I like that list. I have been using Mephy as a back field defenseman. He is great for finishing off Drones and Daemon Princes that make their way back to my gunline.
I have been using less aggression units in my army because besides a good turn (or two) of hitting stuff and being annoying, mass Smites and other Mortal Wound spam removes them so quickly along with my opponents shooting.
I just pour all my resources into one good punch with the DC, kill or tie up as much as possible, and consider everything after that a bonus.
So you need 5 of them with a captain and a lt nearby to drop an average of one drone per turn.
Predators are better. You need 3 tri-las or 4 auto/Las.
I don't think so. Preds are fragile for their points. Stalkers aren't. And have utility vs a lot of other lists. Bloat drones are hard to bring down in general.
Yeah that's fair. And those 5 stalkers are slightly cheaper than the 3 predators.
Stalkers are amazing vs Necrons, Tau, Drukhari, some Eldar lists, enemy BAlol, Flyrants, Daemon princes, etc. Their raw damage is not great, but they are frustrating targets for your opponents.
I am totaly new in Blood Angels and I would like to build a little (but competitive) force of 1000 pts to start.
I already know that I wanted these models:
- Captain (hammer + wings combo)
- Some Intercessors
- Scouts
- Land speeder storm
- Sanguinary gaurd and/or Death Company
Would please help me to put all of this in an organized force for competitive play, did I miss something strong?
Thank you very much. This thread is a pleasure to read !
Land Speeder Storm [5 PL, 85pts]: Cerberus launcher, Heavy bolter
+ HQ +
Captain [6 PL, 129pts]: 2. Artisan of War, Jump Pack, Storm shield, The Angel's Wing (replaces jump pack), Thunder hammer, Warlord
Chief Librarian Mephiston [8 PL, 145pts]
Lemartes [7 PL, 129pts]
+ Elites +
Death Company [27 PL, 307pts]: Jump Pack
. Death Company Marine: Chainsword, Inferno pistol
. Death Company Marine: Chainsword, Inferno pistol
. Death Company Marine: Chainsword, Inferno pistol
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Power fist
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Power fist
. Death Company Marine: Thunder hammer
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
I do not recommend the Land Speeder Storm, scouts don't really need a transport and it lacks the firepower to justify the cost. I would replace it with a squad of scout bikers.
I am totaly new in Blood Angels and I would like to build a little (but competitive) force of 1000 pts to start.
I already know that I wanted these models:
- Captain (hammer + wings combo)
- Some Intercessors
- Scouts
- Land speeder storm
- Sanguinary gaurd and/or Death Company
Would please help me to put all of this in an organized force for competitive play, did I miss something strong?
Thank you very much. This thread is a pleasure to read !
Welcome to best Marine force out there (in my entirely biased opinion)!
I know you said you wanted to use Intercessors and Captain Slammy, but at 1k points I really don't think he is needed yet. The Death Company (buffed by a Librarian) and Lemartes will tackle almost anything at that points level. I would save him for 1,500 points of more.
p5freak did a fantastic job making a list with the models you said you wanted to use, and there is nothing wrong with it, but I figured I would throw out a list that I would play at 1,000 points and I think could do pretty well.
Even at 1,000 points I don't think you shouldn't neglect to take at least a single squad of Devastators to tackle a tank you may face, or even a small horde of models that could overwhelm a small Blood Angels force. To keep them alive I would take a Company Ancient with the Standard of Sacrifice to make your Devastators a real nuisance to kill, and give you the option of firing with them in your opponents turn. A Sanguinary Novitiate isn't a bad choice either because it is VERY cheap for a Marine character and can revive a dead Devastator in case the unit isn't fully destroyed in your opponent's turn. I put Missile Launchers on the Devs because not only do I love them, they are great in 1,000 points because 4d6 Frag shots at 48" is decent long ranged crowd control to try and clear screens and they are still pretty dang good at popping/weakening tanks.
I went with three units of Scouts because they will be good for protecting your meagre gunline from enemy deep strikers, or can deploy pretty far forward and lay down some close range fire to support the Death Company in sitautions where your opponent doesn't have anything coming in from orbit/the webway/deep strike, and charge in with them to finish off a weakened unit. And... They are cheap.
I went with a generic Librarian with The Angel's Wing, because the buffs he provides the Death Company are fantastic. Unleash Rage for the extra attack on each model (so 12 Powerfist attacks and 35 Chainsword attacks) will help them mulch most things they will face at 1,000 points, and they still provide 20 Bolter shots at 12" to soften up a unit for the Scouts to finish off or force morale checks. I also put Wings of Sanguinius on the Librarian to help him get to where he needs to be to shut off Overwatch and deliver the Death Company safely to their target. I kept the Death Company pretty cheap (see a theme to my thought process haha), but still effective. This exact setup (Death Company, Librarian and Lemartes) allowed me to kill an opponent's Riptide turn 1 and consolidate into their gunline to shut off most of their shooting.
Lemartes is great for the rerolls to the Death Company's 3d6 charge to make sure they get in (you should always be using the 3d6 charge range Strategem on the Death Company when they come in, because if they don't make it they are likely dead), and for the rerolls to hit. However, my Lemartes constantly fails his 9" charge from deep strike, so I would make sure to place a single Death Company model within 6" of Lemartes but still in unit coherency so that if he fails his charge (and rerolled charge range since he is also Death Company) he still allows them to reroll failed to hit rolls. But if he does make it in, just pile in the Death Company model that was hanging back to get more attacks on your target.
I kept the Captain cheap, with just a Power Sword and Storm Bolter, and in this example he has the Soulwarden Warlord Trait since it gives him the ability to deny an enemy Psyker power within 24". But that can be easily traded out for Artisan of War to make his Power Sword 2 Damage. He is there to buff the Devs, and make it hard for your opponent to get Slay the Warlord. He can also act as a decent last ditch defense model against anything that breaks through your Scouts to get to the Devs.
This setup gives you 6 CP after the two relics, so just enough to spend 2 CP to give the Death Company a 3d6 charge range, 3 CP for them to fight again, and 1 CP to make sure you have better chances of getting your 2 Psyker Powers off. If you don't need it for your powers, than use it to spend on getting an extra d3 attacks on the Libby or Lemartes, or to reroll a single charge die for the Librarian or Lemartes if you roll high on one die and not the other and think you would end up with better odds of rerolling say a 1 if the other die was a 6.
Company Ancient [4 PL, 63pts]: Boltgun, Standard of Sacrifice
Death Company [18 PL, 236pts]: Jump Pack
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Power fist
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Power fist
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Power fist
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
Sanguinary Novitiate [3 PL, 55pts]
++ Total: [64 PL, 1000pts] ++
Sorry for the long post, I thought I would just explain a bit as to why my take on a 1k list deviates from what you wanted and why.
HeavenLord wrote:Thank you very much ! The list seems very nice to play, do you have some advice on which character play with which unit, etc. ?
I do not find in my codex the storm bolter option for scout seargent, is it correct?
Thanks again!
Yes, its correct. You can use equipment from the index if its not in the codex.
NH Gunsmith wrote:
Even at 1,000 points I don't think you shouldn't neglect to take at least a single squad of Devastators to tackle a tank you may face, or even a small horde of models that could overwhelm a small Blood Angels force. To keep them alive I would take a Company Ancient with the Standard of Sacrifice to make your Devastators a real nuisance to kill, and give you the option of firing with them in your opponents turn. A Sanguinary Novitiate isn't a bad choice either because it is VERY cheap for a Marine character and can revive a dead Devastator in case the unit isn't fully destroyed in your opponent's turn. I put Missile Launchers on the Devs because not only do I love them, they are great in 1,000 points because 4d6 Frag shots at 48" is decent long ranged crowd control to try and clear screens and they are still pretty dang good at popping/weakening tanks.
Nothing wrong with these suggestions, but the sang novi is questionable at 1k. He is 55 pts. and for that you can get three more marines for the dev squad, which can be used as ablative wounds. I think its better not to lose any heavy weapons in the first place. Reviving killed models only works on 4+, and only one can be revived. If you fail the revival roll the sang novi cant do anything the entire turn.
True, but he is also there for the additional CP, which at 1k can be worth it for the single reroll it gives you for a Psyker power or to try and get Lemartes into combat.
Yeah, it is a bummer losing Devs, but with only 3 Missile Launchers they have 3 ablative wounds in the squad (Sergeant, Bolter Dev, Cherub).
For a new player I would advise sticking to the Codex options and not using index leftovers.
Just to reduce the chance of your models becoming illegal in the future.
Ordana wrote:For a new player I would advise sticking to the Codex options and not using index leftovers.
Just to reduce the chance of your models becoming illegal in the future.
Magnets is the answer.
Martel732 wrote:Also, inceptors are tremendous for ba.
Unfortunately they are fast attack. BA is mostly about elite. Its not easy making an outrider detachment. Scout bikers are the second best choice i guess. Three 3 model units of inceptors are 405 pts. Thats a lot of dakka, but they somewhat lack in the melee department.
But... with an additional HQ you can pay a big tax for a single extra CP Martel! 1 CP!
I’m tempted to use some Inceptors and some plasma loadout assault squads to provide some firepower to my deep striking contingent.
My devastators put in tremendous work last night, killing a PBC, bloat drone, Daemon Prince, chaos lord, and 2-3 Blightlords. They put in the work that secured a tie after I played my deepstrikers poorly and the DP and some Deathshroud killed my captain and sanguinary Guard, and then death Company after taking no damage. Mistakes were made lol. Grave mistakes.
Got a 1.5kish (1550pts) game in last night my 2nd vs DG. Solid result. I had a battalion, spearhead and a vanguard detachment's for 8 CP. I won the roll-off and got first turn even though i had more unit's. We played Maelstrom of war: Sealed order's mission from CA with search and destroy deployment zones. This is a good mission and I recommend it as I now do recommend Maelstrom mission's before any other's. Without it I believe the game is skewd worse somehow and leans too much towards the same type of list's being seen too often. I would've laughed if I had typed those word's 5/6 month's ago but I now genuinely believe that if you're not playing Maelstrom you should be and that is my tuppence worth on that. My list:
Point's of note/post game ramble:
I took my 3 dev squad's to try and they rocked. PBC and FBD do not like missile launcher's and they proved a massive thorn in my opponents side all game as he couldn't reach my 3rd squad which was too far back for him. Grav didn't really do much except kill 4 deathshroud over 3 turns, one of which they moved in and another they fell back in, which is ok'ish I suppose really.
I had castled up in a ruin at the beginning and it caused me serious issue's as it was too close to the front and he managed to assault me in his first turn with his DP and a FBD. This led to him tying up 3 important unit's and me having to fall them back. This wouldn't have happened if I wasn't so greedy for the cover save AND the banner save. Once they did fall back though I cleared my line's with my captain smash and vanguard.
Captain with the hammer was a smash again and everybody hates him already, also didn't bother with the relic jump pack.
The banner is now my only auto-take relic. It proved it's worth in this battle alone especially if you remember to use it Which muggins here forgot about last game I only lost my 2 plasma tac squad's and the spare bolter dudes from my dev squads. This was pretty much solely down to the banner.
Thing's for me to take away from this game are that I really need to watch how I move thing's in order to keep in aura's etc. Also moving heavy weapon's really hurt's you. I didn't think it would be too bad but when I had to move my grav devs and land speeder it really hit their effectiveness. I also need to screen better and watch out for the follow-up in assault more. It cost me by making me have to fall back 2 dev squad's for a turn which hurt at the time but actually helped me out massively as it allowed me to re-arrange my gun-line for the following turn. I need to remember to stop letting bloat drone's into my line's. When they blow up it's nasty
Over all i'm really beginning to think we are actually, in the future really, going to be a SM army with great counter assault element's and not this all-out assault thing I keep seeing people trying. Yes we can do that well but we can do other thing's even better than normal SM when properly co-ordinated.
Over all i'm really beginning to think we are actually, in the future really, going to be a SM army with great counter assault element's and not this all-out assault thing I keep seeing people trying. Yes we can do that well but we can do other thing's even better than normal SM when properly co-ordinated.
That is how I have been playing them this whole edition with very good results. It took some trial and error since it didn't seem to be the way that most BA players went with their armies, but I am glad I kept working on it.
Our counter assault has put the fear of Sanguinius and The Emperor into my opponents. I haven't needed more than a little bit of assult elements in my army, a single unit of Death Company with an Angel's Wing Librarian and Lemartes is more than enough to smash what I need to in my opponents lists to buy time for my Devs to do their job.
Have you thought of taking Scouts to protect your gunline?
@NH GunsmithI have but to be honest i just can't stand those model's and don't want to get them. I do have some Catachan's that are looking mighty tempting though.
Everyone may malign the humble tactical squad but i still think they do a job. Never spectacular but usually solid enough. I will get some primaris but that's way in the future.
That's actually our trick really. Everything can be a potential counter assault unit due to red thirst. it's great.
It was seeing your post's that convinced me to try it. Cheer's.
kryczek wrote: @NH GunsmithI have but to be honest i just can't stand those model's and don't want to get them. I do have some Catachan's that are looking mighty tempting though.
Everyone may malign the humble tactical squad but i still think they do a job. Never spectacular but usually solid enough. I will get some primaris but that's way in the future.
That's actually our trick really. Everything can be a potential counter assault unit due to red thirst. it's great.
It was seeing your post's that convinced me to try it. Cheer's.
Fair enough. I have a great amount of dislike for the mush face plastic Scouts. I have tracked down the old metals for my Scouts, and have been super happy with them.
Got two more boxes of DC and a third box of Devastators. Blue helmets have become invaluable for me. So glad they don’t randomly run forward anymore like 3rd lol.
Bremon wrote: Got two more boxes of DC and a third box of Devastators. Blue helmets have become invaluable for me. So glad they don’t randomly run forward anymore like 3rd lol.
The blue helmets on the Devs and yellow on assault marines was something that drew me to BA initially in third. Gold on veterans. Made for a striking aesthetic. Losing control of them 1/6 chance every turn made them less appealing though. Split fire has definitely been a major benefit for devastators as well.
Yup, adequate firepower is vital in 8th and Devastators are decent value for points in that department.
I have had quite a lot of success running my BAs as all-infantry so Devastators and Inceptors are my primary sources of fire support. Depriving my opponent of any decent targets for his anti-tank weapons seems to pay dividends.
Dropping 
We played Maelstrom of war: Sealed order's mission from 
Once they did fall back though I cleared my line's with my captain smash and vanguard.
