I dislike spending too many points on characters. Sanguinor isn’t a bad option though after his points drop; you pay a slight premium to guarantee “Unleash Rage” that you can leverage into buffing multiple units, and you get a CC monster, and all you lose is Smite and a deny taking into account what a Librarians usual role for me is.
The SGA warlord I generally run with the Deny trait. Sometimes the fearless aura to help protect a fat blob of SG from morale. I’m going to try running a standard SG as warlord soon though and see if I miss the trait compared to the guaranteed rerolls.
I experimented with auto bolt rifles but almost always miss the extr range and the AP of the standard version, and paying a point for the assault version is a slap in the face.
The relic banner is easily our best relic though. It adds a lot of survivability. The jump pack is usually worth paying an extra CP for though.
Sure Mephiston is better in CQC than Sanguinor.
But you get a guaranteed Unleash Rage, which can not be banned. Also you don't have to rely on a power for mobility and have a 4++.
Problem is I only have 3 HQ slots to work with, because I'm souping BA together with my AdMech.
So Captain Smash is fixed, as is Corbulo or a regulary Sanguinary Priest for my Intercessor block. So third place is Mephiston vs Sanguinor.
Mephiston would give me some psychic defense, while Sanguinor would be the better buffer.
lash92 wrote: Sure Mephiston is better in CQC than Sanguinor.
But you get a guaranteed Unleash Rage, which can not be banned. Also you don't have to rely on a power for mobility and have a 4++.
If the sanguinor fails his charge you get nothing. You would have to conga chain your intercessors back to him, reducing his buff.
Sanguinary Ancient [6 PL, 76pts]: 4. Heroic Bearing, Angelus boltgun, Power fist, Standard of Sacrifice, Warlord
Sanguinary Guard [20 PL, 300pts] . Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Power fist
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Power fist
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Power fist
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Power fist
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Power fist
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Power fist
. Sanguinary Guard: Inferno pistol, Power fist
. Sanguinary Guard: Inferno pistol, Power fist
. Sanguinary Guard: Inferno pistol, Power fist
Sanguinary Novitiate [3 PL, 55pts]
+ Heavy Support +
Devastator Squad [11 PL, 129pts]: Armorium Cherub
. Space Marine: Boltgun
. Space Marine: Heavy bolter
. Space Marine: Plasma cannon
. Space Marine: Missile launcher
. Space Marine: Boltgun
. Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun
Devastator Squad [11 PL, 129pts]: Armorium Cherub
. Space Marine: Boltgun
. Space Marine: Heavy bolter
. Space Marine: Plasma cannon
. Space Marine: Missile launcher
. Space Marine: Boltgun
. Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun
Devastator Squad [11 PL, 129pts]: Armorium Cherub
. Space Marine: Boltgun
. Space Marine: Heavy bolter
. Space Marine: Plasma cannon
. Space Marine: Missile launcher
. Space Marine: Boltgun
. Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun
Mephiston is swingy as hell in a game that already has way too much dice rolling to begin with. He can be a demigod or he can be trash. There is value in guaranteed buffs.
lash92 wrote: Sure Mephiston is better in CQC than Sanguinor.
But you get a guaranteed Unleash Rage, which can not be banned. Also you don't have to rely on a power for mobility and have a 4++.
If the sanguinor fails his charge you get nothing. You would have to conga chain your intercessors back to him, reducing his buff.
If a conga line involves a model in CC and a model within an inch of said model so it’s able to attack in CC as well...sure, you have to conga line.
I don't know about Captain Smash, he is just such a beast. Maybe dropping the Priest / Corbulo for Mephiston.
I would lose the 1+ S and healing / revive plus Veritas Vitae if I take a regular Priest.
On the other hand, some psychic would be nice.
But like Bremon said, Mephiston is just so fething swingy...
4++ melee invulns definitely hurt his efficiency in a bad way. In those cases you’re better sending a large number of SG. Even the D3 damage of SG can disappoint.
I take them every time. Love the models despite the kit being crap and it’s one of the few things we have that I don’t wonder “why doesn’t everyone else have access to this too?”
Cheers guys! Coming back after a year so I don't have much clue about the current meta.
I might read through the 60 pages of this thread eventually, but it will take time so I have a couple of questions.
1) is a budget version of Slamguinius worth it?
Playing him with a relic blade and jump pack comes in at about 100 points.
2) Troops, it's always about the Troops, isn't it? I've seen a lot of lists just going with three five man Scout Squads.
Any use for Tacticals? What's the optimal way?
3) When the 8th arrived it seemed to me like there would be no use in running a Baal Predator when you could simply take Razorbacks with Assault Cannons.
Has this changed? Any opinions on it?
And also, have there been any tournament-tier BA lists that haven't run 6+ Stormravens ;D
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, an additional question.
Librarians still worth it? I would assume that Unleash Rage and Shield of Sanguinius are the top choices?
1) is a budget version of Slamguinius worth it?
Playing him with a relic blade and jump pack comes in at about 100 points.
If you use him as an infantry killer, yes. Otherwise go PF. Its also 9 pts. has S*2 but -1 to hit.
2) Troops, it's always about the Troops, isn't it? I've seen a lot of lists just going with three five man Scout Squads.
Any use for Tacticals? What's the optimal way?
Tacticals are meh. If you have a captain nearby you could go with combiplasma and plasmagun. Otherwise go with the loyal 32, or three scout units with knives or boltguns, if you want pure BA.
3) When the 8th arrived it seemed to me like there would be no use in running a Baal Predator when you could simply take Razorbacks with Assault Cannons.
Has this changed? Any opinions on it?
Nothing changed, baal preds are still meh. Use razorbacks with twin AC instead.
Librarians still worth it? I would assume that Unleash Rage and Shield of Sanguinius are the top choices?
Depends. Unleash rage is ok when you have a big CC unit nearby. Otherwise its quickening and wings of sanguinius, which is great with the libby dread. Shield of sanguinius used to be 4+, now is 5+. I dont use it. I dont even use a regular librarian. Its mephiston and/or the libby dread. Mephiston doesnt need the shield, because he already has a 2+ sv, AP-3 brings him to 5+, which is the same as the shield. The dread is harder to wound with T7.
soomemafia wrote: Cheers guys! Coming back after a year so I don't have much clue about the current meta.
I might read through the 60 pages of this thread eventually, but it will take time so I have a couple of questions.
1) is a budget version of Slamguinius worth it?
Playing him with a relic blade and jump pack comes in at about 100 points.
2) Troops, it's always about the Troops, isn't it? I've seen a lot of lists just going with three five man Scout Squads.
Any use for Tacticals? What's the optimal way?
3) When the 8th arrived it seemed to me like there would be no use in running a Baal Predator when you could simply take Razorbacks with Assault Cannons.
Has this changed? Any opinions on it?
And also, have there been any tournament-tier BA lists that haven't run 6+ Stormravens ;D
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, an additional question.
Librarians still worth it? I would assume that Unleash Rage and Shield of Sanguinius are the top choices?
1)Relic blades are objectively bad. Power fist is a better choice imo.
2)Tacs are awful and worse after CA. Loyal 32 for soup CP, or Intercessors for reasonable objective holders, or Scouts for cheap troop tax and area denial.
3)my precious Baal Preds are piss poor and Razorbacks are easily the superior option.
4)Shield of Sanguinius is crap at 5+++. Unleash Rage is good but Sanguinor guarantees the +1 and can give it to multiple units simultaneously. Only good librarian at this point is Meph or Dread with Quickening and Wings imo.
IG has you picking your models up at the end of turn two every time anyway though, right? I’d imagine I’d try a new list every time in that case as well, if not just for the variety of units on the table for 2 turns.
Kidding of course, but our book isn’t in a great place so at this point I tend to just run my favourite stuff since I don’t care to spend money on soup or time painting hideous models like Scouts or IG.
It does stack, but is another character in an army that already seems to revolve around Death Stars. At what point is it too many eggs in one basket? 320 SG plus some inferno pistols, plus 70ish for SGA, 150 for Sanguinor, 120 for a librarian.
Are you guys making any use of Psykers post CA?
As pointed out Mephiston is swingy as hell, which also applies to a Librarian Dreadnough (even more so with just 3 attacks base imo).
On the other hand having a successfull deny or unleash rage can be such a game changer. So I was thinking about adding a JP Librarian. But he is just 24 / 40 points cheaper than a Librarian dreadnought, mhh...
What are people's thoughts on TLLC and CCW dreads now after the points drop? Can either waddle up the field with 2 lascannon shots a turn or sit with a castle offering decent counter charge potential (4 S12 Ap-3 flat 3 damage) all for 132 points.
Probably not going to rock the super competitive world but then if you're playing blood angels you already know that.
Martel732 wrote: It doesn't have to go on SG. It can go on anything. Just a thought.
What are the most valuable targets for it though? Taking a ten man DC unit from 40 attacks to 50? A captain +1 Attack? There aren’t many suitable targets because we tend to MSU heavily.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
lash92 wrote: Are you guys making any use of Psykers post CA?
As pointed out Mephiston is swingy as hell, which also applies to a Librarian Dreadnough (even more so with just 3 attacks base imo).
On the other hand having a successfull deny or unleash rage can be such a game changer. So I was thinking about adding a JP Librarian. But he is just 24 / 40 points cheaper than a Librarian dreadnought, mhh...
Deny doesn’t tend to do much for me, and I generally use the Deny warlord trait. Once I start using an SG warlord maybe a librarian will be of more value but a JP librarian is a pretty poor use of points imo. One smite, deny and possibly Unleash Rage isn’t really worth it when the platform it’s comig from hits like a wet blanket against most things you’d like to kill with him. Libby dread is a whole different ball game.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
fatbudda319 wrote: What are people's thoughts on TLLC and CCW dreads now after the points drop? Can either waddle up the field with 2 lascannon shots a turn or sit with a castle offering decent counter charge potential (4 S12 Ap-3 flat 3 damage) all for 132 points.
Probably not going to rock the super competitive world but then if you're playing blood angels you already know that.
If we had venerable dreads (wtf do Furioso not hit on 2+?) then maybe you’d have a case but I think they’re pretty terrible gun platforms. They blow up too quickly, and not enough dakka. Better off advancing something as quickly as possible, or a platform like a Razorback that is cheaper and more durable. Walking a TL Las hitting on 4+ every turn doesn’t accomplish a whole lot imo.
I often run no psyker at all. I’ll likely play the Librarian dread again. The character keyword turns him into a nice bully to help your infantry out. He can also once in a long while pull off both spells he needs to make himself a useful melee brute.
Has anyone any feedback on intercessors with power fist on the sergeant. I have had three games with 2 5man squads with cheap codex sanguinary priest. Have to say, they have outperformed so far as back/midfield objective holders. Didn't realize, but even that orks blob charged them, I managed to kill them (2CP counter-offensive). What I'm trying to say is that we have an option to take something else besides scouts if we happen to have spare points. Scouts rarely have any potential even to shine, when intercessors just might. Not top-tier, but not the most crap-tier anymore. Also about the sanguinary priest, sad that in the codex it doesn't allow any upgrades, but still my to go cheap HQ has been a lieutenant so far, but haven't really missed his presence by my two dev squads. Well just early comments and have only played semi-comp. friendlies.
The 2 wounds and 2 attacks, 3 with a fist, make them much more viable than a unit of Tacs with a lascannon and 4 ablative wounds, or a unit of Scouts that just gives your opponent something for their small arms to achieve something against. Also helps that they’re our only troop choice with nice models rather than mediocre squatting monkeys or clay face duke nukem cosplay enthusiasts.
Had my first two games with a bigger block (19 man) on the weekend and they are pretty good imo. Move them up the board with character support and most importantly FnP banner and you have a good chance of controlling the middle of the board.
I wanted to try work a Knight in the mix but struggling with the synergy and was just wanting peoples thoughts.
Was looking at having a large unit of Sanguinary guard with ancient and some support characters.
Also wanted to include a knight castellan.
Problem here is that Iron Bulwark warlord trait is real good but then that screws up the Sanguinary guard rerolls begin close to the warlord. It's unlikely the two would be close to each other on the battlefield.
Thinking of changing the SG to VV.
SG have the advantage of the free rerolls, two wounds and look way way cooler.
Take a random chaplin or Astorath and sod heirs of azkellon. You only need the re-roll's in assault really. Plus their rule's work on unit's and not model's.
I'm trying Astorath for the bonus rule he get's. +1 to hit for a key phase can make all the difference. Especially if you have PF's.
Problem here is that Iron Bulwark warlord trait is real good but then that screws up the Sanguinary guard rerolls begin close to the warlord. It's unlikely the two would be close to each other on the battlefield.
Nothing gets screwed up. The knight is only a warlord for the purpose of choosing a warlord trait. You spend 1 CP for exalted court, and your knight gets ion bulwark. The sang ancient is your real warlord, with his own warlord trait.
Nothing gets screwed up. The knight is only a warlord for the purpose of choosing a warlord trait. You spend 1 CP for exalted court, and your knight gets ion bulwark. The sang ancient is your real warlord, with his own warlord trait.
Most of our psychic powers suck, except quickening and wings, so the one less power doesnt really matter. Unleash rage is ok if you have a big unit to buff. Fixed 3 damage and AP-4 makes up for losing one attack. Yes, i think the libby dread is better than mephy.
kryczek wrote: Take a random chaplin or Astorath and sod heirs of azkellon. You only need the re-roll's in assault really. Plus their rule's work on unit's and not model's.
I'm trying Astorath for the bonus rule he get's. +1 to hit for a key phase can make all the difference. Especially if you have PF's.
Interesting point with the chaplain, you would pay for a rule which you are not using, but on the other hand you would have a much easier time ensuring that your guys are all buffed up pretty easily. Plus you don't lose your WL trait on something like the SGA or a SG.
I would advocate for Lemartes tbh, since Astorath bonus rules applies at the start of the movement phase, so it can't be used after you deepstrike in your golden boys.
Plus Lemmy gets 6a on the charge for merely a 100 pts.
It is not entirely clear. The wording is as shown below.
Now this seems leggit until you consider the following wording from the Space Marine codex.
This seems to imply that anything targetting "Space Marines" only applies to units from the Space Marine codex. They go further later on in the book and specify that SM Stratagems are not useable by BAs, SWs and DAs.
Now we may be taking the stuff from the SM codex out of context but the way it is worded has clearly left room for doubt and a lot of people are asking GW for clarification.
Anyone running Repulsors? I'm kinda wishing I'd have painted one (or two) up now that they (and intercessors) have come down in price. The idea of using them, as flying T8 vehicles, to screen my army feels appealing against many (but not all) infantry bombs, but I've never done so.
The worst thing about the Repulsor is the smorgasbord of weapons on it. It’s a constant exercise in checking BattleScribe because they gave it so many weapons with similar profiles instead of just having multiples of a small number of weapons.
IVIOOSE wrote: Are libby dreads a lot better now. I’m debating on one but not sure yet as I have one in a mixed supremacy detachment with other libbies
Mine, last time out, pretty much solo killed a knight titan that got too close to my deployment zone. They're good.
I get that they can do that but I’m a mixed detachment I only have his two psy powers and no strats so he has 3+d3 attacks if I get his power and 1 more if I cast might of heroes on him. He is not really my knight killer more just a model that can move up board and annoy people. Still can’t decide if I like him or not.
IVIOOSE wrote: I get that they can do that but I’m a mixed detachment I only have his two psy powers and no strats so he has 3+d3 attacks if I get his power and 1 more if I cast might of heroes on him. He is not really my knight killer more just a model that can move up board and annoy people. Still can’t decide if I like him or not.
Well, considering most of the time he'll have Wings and Quickening as powers, he's somewhat limited in his force multiplication (especially if you're saying your sans BA strats), but what he does provide is a non-targetable protector who can jump WAY out whenever you feel is necessary and push his weight around...or, can just hang back and smite.
Having said all that, without Red Rampage and being able to attack again after death, I doubt I'd spend 140+ points on a model that may only get 3 attacks when I was banking on him to have 5 to 9.
Death Company [27 PL, 300pts]: Jump Pack
. Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol and chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol and chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol and chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol and chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol and chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol and chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol and chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol and chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol and chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol and chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol and chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol and chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol and chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol and chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Bolt pistol and chainsword
+ Heavy Support +
Devastator Squad [8 PL, 150pts]: Armorium Cherub
. Space Marine: Lascannon
. Space Marine: Lascannon
. Space Marine: Heavy bolter
. Space Marine: Missile launcher
. Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun
Devastator Squad [8 PL, 150pts]: Armorium Cherub
. Space Marine: Lascannon
. Space Marine: Lascannon
. Space Marine: Heavy bolter
. Space Marine: Missile launcher
. Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun
Devastator Squad [8 PL, 150pts]: Armorium Cherub
. Space Marine: Lascannon
. Space Marine: Lascannon
. Space Marine: Heavy bolter
. Space Marine: Missile launcher
. Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun
I have 10 lascannons, and I guess enough anti-infantry. The thing I'm worried about is that I will start the game with 1600 points and I don't know whether my marines will be able to soak all the punishment, especially my precious devastator squads. The primaris ancient goes with the intercessors who will march mid-field to contest objectives alongside the scouts.
The backline jump-pack will be my warlord.
Done some maths and trying to figure out the best point to point dakka input for my BA.
I'm considering between dakka repulsor, LR crusader and double assbacks. Any suggestions? Most likely transport capacity will not be used in this case.
Between FLY and T8, I think I would go for the Repulsor. The points cost in CA is helpful too although the LRC has also benefited.
Assault Cannon RBs are probably the cheapest source of dakka in points-per-shot but the benefits of T8, FLY and POTMS tip me in favour of the Repulsor.
Contemptor mortis dreadnought with double kheres assault cannons (138), or double twin heavy bolters (122). Better in almost every way than any baal asspred or assback. Its got BS/WS 2+, gets chapter tactics, 5+ inv, can hit back and do some damage in melee, only downside is 9" movement. Also available as a relic version with W12, 2+ sv and 6+ FNP for 22 more points.
The mono BA list has not been updated for CA. I suspect it gets better.
15 CC scouts
15 sniper scouts
Smash Capt w/relic pack
Astorath
3 dev teams 6 men, plasma cannon, missile launcher, heavy bolter, angry baby each
3 X heavy bolter attack bikes
Sanguinary ancient w/ relic banner *warlord*
9X sanguinary guard power fists, 2 X infernus, 7X angelus
10X DC, 2 X power sword, 2X power fist, boltguns
Primaris LT
Rhino
Yes, this is a brigade. I made it on a dare, but I did actually win some games with it. The DC are in deep strike, the SG are not. The SG are there to soak fire. The dev teams are configured to take advantage of double tapping mortal wound strats and plasma cannons immune to overheat. I use Astorath because he's a boss in CC and can buff any BA in CC. The smash capt is the sheriff of the gunline until screens fall apart. Then he does his thing.
Souped list. This one is squirrely in my opinion. It is updated for CA.
IG battalion *Valhalla*
3 X infantry squads
Command Russ, battlecannon, 3 X heavy bolter
Punisher Russ, 3 X heavy bolter
2 X primaris psyker
Fixer priest guy *warlord*
Platoon commander
BA battalion
15 CC scouts
2 X Stalker
2 X Rhino
5 X vets, 5X stormbolters
Relic Deredeo
Techmarine
Primaris LT
BA Supreme Command
Smash Capt
Mephiston
Libby Dread
Lots of cheap T8. Lots of 2 damage or D3 damage shots. 3 BA beatsticks, 5 denies, 4 possible smites. I have been known to throw the stalkers in with the Rhinos and use a 4 tank wall to get the characters into CC vs annoying gunlines. I use the faithful 36 instead of 32 because Russes are too good to pass on. Also, repairing valhallan Russes is hilarious. Also, if facing wyvern spam or some nonsense, the scouts and vets all can be stuffed in the rhinos.
Death Company [18 PL, 227pts]: Jump Pack
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Power fist
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Power fist
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Power fist
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
Sanguinary Ancient [6 PL, 78pts]: 5. Gift of Foresight, Angelus boltgun, Death mask, Power fist, Standard of Sacrifice, Warlord
Sanguinary Guard [20 PL, 192pts] . Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Power fist
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Power fist
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Power fist
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Power fist
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Power fist
. Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Power fist
My hammer units have been SG with power fists, captain smash and occasional mephiston.
I have van vet squad in rebuilding on my table, but I'm not sure should I go dual plasma pistol or pure melee approach.. with couple cheap storm shields.. dropping with the capt smash to clear/soften stuff sounds fun atleast. I'd like to hear how are people using their van vets as well, although there's a sepparate threat on van vet load outs active there.
Sure, but I find it less of a problem tbh. Also chaff can be used against the enemy if you can take a hostage and prevent him from shooting that hammer next turn. (Assuming ofc you are able to kill the unit in the enemies fight phase, otherwise you have failed pretty hard ^^)
Hey there fellow BA players, just started 8th edition and I'm trying to come up with a DA/BA list to start going towards, maybe to get a game in with that army (my main army is necrons). I know this isn't pure BA, but well, it's quite heavy on it. I'd love any comments on it, or at least the BA part. Thougth the libby dreadnought would be good to run together with the Intercessors/RW Bikers, but a second smashy Captain is probably a better choice.
Since you have a big unit of SG I would definitely make an BA your warlord, so they can use their special ability which allows them to reroll all hits.
Best candidate would be the Ancient, so your Captain Smash can operate independently.
As for a warlord traits: Do you play in a enviroment in which you have to specify it before you know your opponents army? If not I think the best trait varies greatly depending on your enemy.
This is probably going to suck, but I'm trying to build a pure BA list mostly to show off some models but with the ideal of not being total garbage either. It's intended for a more casual meta as well.
Battalion :
The Sanguinor
Astorath
5x Scouts
5x Scouts
5x Scouts
Sanguinary Ancient
8x Deathcompany, Power Swords, Jump Packs
5x Assault Terminator, Lightning Claws
Battalion :
Smash Captain
Smash Captain
5x Scouts
5x Scouts
5x Scouts
Spearhead :
Sanguinary Priest, Wings
5x Devastators, Heavy Flamers, Cherub
5x Devastators, Heavy Flamers, Cherub
5x Devastators, HB/ML/2x Las, Cherub
Razorbacks for the two Heavy Flamer Devs. Ideally just going to toss them, the scouts, and some combination of Terminators and Death Company into CC as soon as possible and give them whatever buffs I can fit in range. Not a lot of bodies but hopefully it does enough to win games in a casual meta. Anything drastically wrong? Any tips?
For Hair Bois list. Sounds and looks BA for friendlies. I'd give relic wings to one of the captains. I don't like index models, so sang priest wouldn't be my pick. I'd ditch terminators for something more mobile, SG, Van Vets with couple SS and cheap ablatives or 2nd DC squad. 4x HFdevs are fun for crow'd control, but you will have trouble when their ride gets shot, but fluffy.. and will bring laughs when they get to torch stuff.
For others, I wanna ask..
Has anyone tried plasma pistols in a big unit of SG? Wouldn't even need a captain for overcharging on the drop if they drop with the warlord SG ancient, and you don't really have to overcharge with them in every game.. This idea was born when I tried to max out my van vet plasma drop punch to still have that unit to have some melee.. SG could do both, but they are super expensive to die for overcharging.. but something situational option to have in your toolbox, it's only 2p more / model over angelus boltguns which isn't that great to wound your charging targets atleast.
Has anyone tried plasma pistols in a big unit of SG? Wouldn't even need a captain for overcharging on the drop if they drop with the warlord SG ancient, and you don't really have to overcharge with them in every game.. This idea was born when I tried to max out my van vet plasma drop punch to still have that unit to have some melee.. SG could do both, but they are super expensive to die for overcharging.. but something situational option to have in your toolbox, it's only 2p more / model over angelus boltguns which isn't that great to wound your charging targets atleast.
Just wondering..
That's still on my mind..
Now I have a new problem on which I would appreciate your take, I finally managed to build my LRC whis I bought like three years ago. I really want to field it in my next game on next week. Has anyone tried it after the new beta bolter rules? At this point, I'm planning putting my SG or DC blob in there along with Mephy.. I've sketched many lists, but atleast at 1,5k I find the LRC to be too expensive.. Ideas welcome..
Instead of using one shot HKMs i would replace the SB on the captains with combi plasma. A captain can re-roll 1s, so its pretty safe to overcharge. SG only makes sense with all PF, on the ancient as well, you could also give them plasma pistols. The ancient gets the standard of sacrifice and he should be your warlord. SG will re-roll all failed hit rolls, which includes 1s for overcharged plasma. And because its a pistol they can use it in melee. A libby dread needs wings and quickening. I would drop the sang novitiate and equip the razorbacks with twin AC.
p5freak wrote: Instead of using one shot HKMs i would replace the SB on the captains with combi plasma. A captain can re-roll 1s, so its pretty safe to overcharge. SG only makes sense with all PF, on the ancient as well, you could also give them plasma pistols. The ancient gets the standard of sacrifice and he should be your warlord. SG will re-roll all failed hit rolls, which includes 1s for overcharged plasma. And because its a pistol they can use it in melee. A libby dread needs wings and quickening. I would drop the sang novitiate and equip the razorbacks with twin AC.
Very good comments. I adapted the list accordingly.
Spoiler:
New Roster (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [118 PL, 2001pts]
Devastator Squad [11 PL, 163pts]: Armorium Cherub
. Space Marine: Lascannon
. Space Marine: Lascannon
. Space Marine: Heavy bolter
. Space Marine: Missile launcher
. Space Marine: Boltgun
. Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun
Devastator Squad [11 PL, 163pts]: Armorium Cherub
. Space Marine: Lascannon
. Space Marine: Lascannon
. Space Marine: Heavy bolter
. Space Marine: Missile launcher
. Space Marine: Boltgun
. Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun
Devastator Squad [11 PL, 163pts]: Armorium Cherub
. Space Marine: Lascannon
. Space Marine: Lascannon
. Space Marine: Heavy bolter
. Space Marine: Missile launcher
. Space Marine: Boltgun
. Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun
I promised to help a local teenager who is participating in the biggest finnish ETC tournament. He is playing Death guard and brings Mortarion.
I can't field my more competitive Death guard list so I need to bring my pure Angels..
I've used to use my double batallion lists, but I think it's time for my brigade's for testing. I have two brigade's on my mind and would really much appreciate your input.
I can alter lists from my collection of BA. Also my biggest consern is what's my true counter against Morty himself. With brigade I can try twice UWoF with Smash captain and SG.
Here's my two brigade's, at this point I'm leaning on List A: Although, I was really satisfied with LRC in my last game.
6x SG w/ PF & angelus boltgun
SG ancient (warlord) PF, angelus boltgun, banner of sacrifice
Sanguinary noviate
Dev squad w/ PC, ML, HB, cherub
Dev squad w/ PC, ML, HB, cherub
Land raider crusader w/ storm bolter & multi-melta
2k
So what do you think, either can can give practise for the DG list.. Feel free to suggest, I want to give him the best practise I can.. I think the biggest thing will be playing a 2k game in 2-3 hours and learning to play both maelstorm and eternal at the same time.
Devastator Squad [11 PL, 163pts]: Armorium Cherub
. Space Marine: Lascannon
. Space Marine: Lascannon
. Space Marine: Heavy bolter
. Space Marine: Missile launcher
. Space Marine: Boltgun
. Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun
Devastator Squad [11 PL, 163pts]: Armorium Cherub
. Space Marine: Lascannon
. Space Marine: Lascannon
. Space Marine: Heavy bolter
. Space Marine: Missile launcher
. Space Marine: Boltgun
. Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun
Devastator Squad [11 PL, 163pts]: Armorium Cherub
. Space Marine: Lascannon
. Space Marine: Lascannon
. Space Marine: Heavy bolter
. Space Marine: Missile launcher
. Space Marine: Boltgun
. Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun
I find the most effective way to run devs is: x1 lascannon, x1 plasma cannon and the either a heavy bolter or missile (I normally run 2 squads one HB one ML for 4d3 mortal wounds). Plasma cannon isn't over heating thanks to +1 to hit saves points and is as good as a lascannon in my findings at least. Could be worth a shot and save some points?
I've finally picked up three boxes of scouts. I've settled on magnetizing the arms, but I'm not interested in painting all of the options right away, just what I think I'll find most useful most of the time. I can't definitively settle on how to gear them though. Should I start with all bolters, all pistols/knives, or one squad of one two of squads of the other or?
So I have been thinking about my Blood Angels list. I am going to run Slam in there with the Angel's Wing. But is it worth a CP to give a different Character the Veritas Vitae? It seems like it might help keep the cycle going a little longer.
hintzy wrote:I've finally picked up three boxes of scouts. I've settled on magnetizing the arms, but I'm not interested in painting all of the options right away, just what I think I'll find most useful most of the time. I can't definitively settle on how to gear them though. Should I start with all bolters, all pistols/knives, or one squad of one two of squads of the other or?
I like knives + pistols and deploying them agressive. But if you want them to sit on a backfield objective go for the bolters and maybe a HB.
casvalremdeikun wrote:So I have been thinking about my Blood Angels list. I am going to run Slam in there with the Angel's Wing. But is it worth a CP to give a different Character the Veritas Vitae? It seems like it might help keep the cycle going a little longer.
It really depends: If you have say a double Batallion and this would be your first extra relic I would go for it, because you always should make at least the 1 CP that you spent back.
hintzy wrote: I've finally picked up three boxes of scouts. I've settled on magnetizing the arms, but I'm not interested in painting all of the options right away, just what I think I'll find most useful most of the time. I can't definitively settle on how to gear them though. Should I start with all bolters, all pistols/knives, or one squad of one two of squads of the other or?
Scouts don't make it in my BA army.
Weakly guys can do what? Shoot, miss, make no damage and die?
BAs in my area are pretty archetypal in their adherence to "punch at all costs" strategies, but I've been kicking around the notion of Jump Company Vets with Plas/CombiPlas and SS to supplement my existing Deathwatch force. The idea of a highly mobile squad of 10-15 plasma vets in a Standard of Sacrifice bubble that can all deep strike for free, or even charge in tactically with a +1 to wound, plus the capacity to add in a Slammy, is intriguing.
I realize it's an expensive proposition (32ppm for the CVets) but I play a pretty mobile and aggressive DW force with multiple Bike/VV combat squad elements supplemented by a large Vet plasma drop as the hammer and it all seems to fit together.
Is there something I'm overlooking or otherwise missing? Does it seem workable?
p5freak wrote: One SG model with PF and PP is 34 pts. They have W2 and 2+ sv, rest is the same as cvets.
Sanguinary Guard can't take stormshields or any meaningful ranged weapons though. A plasma pistol is...just not gonna cut it im afraid. The idea isnt to banzai these teams into melee, but to skirmish with their plasma rifles and mobility, and if necessary, make a tactically selective charge.
SG have the same weakness that Primaris do: High AP multi-damage weaponry, and the rest of my list is built to punish those kinds of weapons. Giving them a perfect target isn't ideal.
I didn't know SS makes you unkillable. Your 32 pt. cvets are taken out by simple mass bolter fire. They die way to fast for what they cost. If you don't like SG try plasma inceptors.
I can second that. I have been very impressed by my Inceptors as they bring a lot of firepower for their cost. Plasma version really need a jump cap though to keep overheats under control.
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Xirax wrote: Hey guys I need your haste help.
Also my biggest consern is what's my true counter against Morty himself. With brigade I can try twice UWoF with Smash captain and SG.
Morty is a tough nut to crack with a pure BA list. Flakk and Hellfire (especially stacked with armorium cherubs) will help against him for sure. Captain Smash with Red Rampage will average about 6 wounds in a round of combat. If you play a stratagem to fight twice (HOTC or OIDDDE) that is 12 wounds in a single round of combat. That could be enough if you have softened him up with a few mortal wound stratagems first.
Every single BA jump unit has a liability. You just have to know what they are when list building.
Also, give the SG an ancient with FNP banner. This helps tremendously with damage 2 weapons like dissy cannons. I also find angelus bolters are significant ranged weapons at close with full warlord rerolls. Also, jump into cover with them. 1+ armor and 5+++ is a brutal combo for most lists.
I like VV with SS, but they must be kept away from mass dakka. This is sometimes easier said than done. Especially after beta bolter rule.
Morty is weakish to my stalker ball of 2 X stalker, deredeo dread. Morty also doesn't enjoy smites or flakk missiles. Or krak missiles, for that matter.
If I'm doing the brigade against the Morty list, I feel like the choice is between 2nd smash captain and mephy. Both can be sherifs backfield with the mini-gunline, but Mephy can throw smites as well.. but then only got two units for uwof+cp burning captain and SG to counter stuff. I know my opponents list, there's a slaahnez sorcerer for warp time the morty up field and deathshroud termie squad, although termies won't keep up. If my prediction is correct, I will have morty at my doorstep T1-2, so here I could throw Mephy to join the fun and he should peel of few wounds as well after I have thrown SG/Smash already to soften.. Morty feels like something you don't want to just ignore. Cherubs are with those devs for flakk/hellfire for sure.
So lately I´m toying around with list ideas for an upcoming smaller ITC event (1750 points, 24 player) in my area.
I´m somehow always coming back to kind of a Primaris deatball: Namely Intercessors + Aggressors which walk up the board supported by the FnP banner and clear out all the chaff, whilste Smash Cpts and Libby Dread deal with the heavy hitters.
Has aynone tried something like this and could share their experience?
Martel732 wrote: Every single BA jump unit has a liability. You just have to know what they are when list building.
That's largely why I avoid Plinceptors. 59 points a pop behind T5/3+ is just too damn squishy. They can do work as a suicide plasma drop, but it's a lot of points to invest. And to be blunt, with DW and Scions available there are far better options for plasma drops.
I like VV with SS, but they must be kept away from mass dakka. This is sometimes easier said than done. Especially after beta bolter rule.
We tend to play with a lot of terrain at my LGS. It's not quite Cities of Death saturation, but its pretty close. High mobility units cover and LOS hugging is the norm, not the exception.
I play with massive firing lanes to best simulate tournament terrain. Lots of cover, though.
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Xirax wrote: If I'm doing the brigade against the Morty list, I feel like the choice is between 2nd smash captain and mephy. Both can be sherifs backfield with the mini-gunline, but Mephy can throw smites as well.. but then only got two units for uwof+cp burning captain and SG to counter stuff. I know my opponents list, there's a slaahnez sorcerer for warp time the morty up field and deathshroud termie squad, although termies won't keep up. If my prediction is correct, I will have morty at my doorstep T1-2, so here I could throw Mephy to join the fun and he should peel of few wounds as well after I have thrown SG/Smash already to soften.. Morty feels like something you don't want to just ignore. Cherubs are with those devs for flakk/hellfire for sure.
2x stalker deredeo puts a lot of pressure on morty.
To free up points would be swapping Mephy of other Smashy.. bolter inceptors are my mobile mini assbacks for chaffs.. like someone mentioned above plasma ceptors are good on the drop, but point sink to die after..
Martel732 wrote: If fw is banned, i might legit use triple stalker.
My mathammer says that 3x stalker with captain and lieutenant rerolls standing still gets only 4,229 damage on average. That's not much for 285p. Ok I can use them to shoot bloat-drones too, but still. Or am I doing it wrong?
To free up points would be swapping Mephy of other Smashy.. bolter inceptors are my mobile mini assbacks for chaffs.. like someone mentioned above plasma ceptors are good on the drop, but point sink to die after..
Scouts are pretty good. They are our cheapest Troop unit and you can bring them in on later turns with the revised Reserves rules. This is handy if you are playing continuous scoring missions like the new CA2018 ones where the ability to snag objectives quickly is vital.
Personally I quite like Mephy. He doesn't hit quite as hard as Smash but he can be faster with Wings and he can cast Quickening for the extra D3 attacks without burning a CP on Red Rampage. He can also DTW which can always come in handy.
I also like Incpetors and the bolter dudes have always given me value for money. I like the plasma ones but they need more support to get the mileage out of them. You need a Jump Captain to manage overheats and for such expensive models, you might even want to consider the FNP banner and a Sanguinary Novitiate to patch them up. They play very differently to the bolter ones who can just jump around happily and mow down chaff.
Ive been trying to soup my Deathwatch with BA lately.
My question would be what are the „best“ heavy hitters in melee apart from characters obv. ?
I have 15 VanVets/DeathCompany. 5 with Hammers. Are DesthCompany vets even worth after the point drop to VVs? And how about SG? I quite like their looks but dont know what synergises well with them.
I have 15 VanVets/DeathCompany. 5 with Hammers. Are DesthCompany vets even worth after the point drop to VVs? And how about SG? I quite like their looks but dont know what synergises well with them.
The drop in VanVets has certainly put Death Company in a tricky spot. DC are great for chaff clearance and can be buffed wonderfully by Lemartes. VanVets are more durable with their access to 2-point Storm Shield. A flying unit with a 3++ and any special weapons you like is pretty potent.
Personally I wouldn't bother with Thunder Hammers on VanVets or DC now that Power Fists have got such a drop. PFs are most cost effective on a whole unit, save Hammers for your characters.
Sanguinary Guard are good but they are very expensive and need a lot of support to make them work well. Firstly you need to run them with your Warlord so that they can get full rerolls to hit. Secondly you need to maximise their number of attacks, normally by running them with the Sanguinor and/or a Librarian to cast "Unleash Rage". You need to add something to keep them alive, normally a Sanguinary Ancient with the Standard of Sacrifice and possibly even a Sanguinary Priest to buff their strength and heal/resurrect models.
In a sense, the ranking of these units depends on the points you wish to spend on them.
VanVets. Cheap flying Invulns make them great for tarpitting big monsters or blender units. Add a few fists/hammers and you can hit back pretty well.
Death Company throw out the most attacks for their points and can be buffed with rerolls to charge and to hit with 100 points of Lemartes.
Sanguinary Guard are an expensive hammer unit that needs support both to maximise their attacks and ensure they don't get trashed.
Tried VV but ended up going back to SG in most circustances. Bolter type weapons just ruin them. There is a place for them along side but not as good as either to replace.
Coming back to my unanswered question:
Has anyone tried Primaris spam supported by the FnP banner as the core of their army?
Maybe about 20 Intercessors and 9 Aggressors walking up the board?
lash92 wrote: Coming back to my unanswered question:
Has anyone tried Primaris spam supported by the FnP banner as the core of their army?
Maybe about 20 Intercessors and 9 Aggressors walking up the board?
lash92 wrote: Coming back to my unanswered question:
Has anyone tried Primaris spam supported by the FnP banner as the core of their army?
Maybe about 20 Intercessors and 9 Aggressors walking up the board?
No, I haven't seen it done. Whilst it is an interesting idea, I am not sure if it is tough enough to build an army around. I haven't seen DG Plague Marine spam setting the meta on fire and this is not much different.
Yep, Ive been trying it. It's really solid against small arms. I'm using 3x6 intercessors, Astorath, Mephiston and SG ancient and more often than not I'm starting the SG with them and advancing it all T1. It's taking folk's by surprise occasionally. I'm aiming for a 4++ and +1 to hit and re~roll's from Astorath T2. If anyone get's even 2 of the 3 bonuses then they tend to hit hard. I have a load of PF and TH so the +1 to hit fro Astorath is worth it's weight in gold for e.
@Karhedron
I will try it next weekend against Nids and Tau and relate my findings back. I think it will be good against Nids, T'au will be the real test tough.
@kryczek
Great to here that. Have you got anything else which attracts the heavy arms fire from your enemy or are you just soaking it up with your infantry?
Also how many dudes on 32mm bases can one fit inside the 6"" bubble?
Yup I know, that's why I said they will be the real test. If I can manage to play against them I feel like I could do well against most shooting threats.
But hey we got an indirect buff regarding to the Assassin leaks. Tau would really hate an Vindicare I think
Also I'm debating of adding in a guard artillery detachment. What works well together with Blood Angels in your opinion guys? Wyverns? Basilisks?
I have 15 VanVets/DeathCompany. 5 with Hammers. Are DesthCompany vets even worth after the point drop to VVs? And how about SG? I quite like their looks but dont know what synergises well with them.
The drop in VanVets has certainly put Death Company in a tricky spot. DC are great for chaff clearance and can be buffed wonderfully by Lemartes. VanVets are more durable with their access to 2-point Storm Shield. A flying unit with a 3++ and any special weapons you like is pretty potent.
Personally I wouldn't bother with Thunder Hammers on VanVets or DC now that Power Fists have got such a drop. PFs are most cost effective on a whole unit, save Hammers for your characters.
Sanguinary Guard are good but they are very expensive and need a lot of support to make them work well. Firstly you need to run them with your Warlord so that they can get full rerolls to hit. Secondly you need to maximise their number of attacks, normally by running them with the Sanguinor and/or a Librarian to cast "Unleash Rage". You need to add something to keep them alive, normally a Sanguinary Ancient with the Standard of Sacrifice and possibly even a Sanguinary Priest to buff their strength and heal/resurrect models.
In a sense, the ranking of these units depends on the points you wish to spend on them.
VanVets. Cheap flying Invulns make them great for tarpitting big monsters or blender units. Add a few fists/hammers and you can hit back pretty well.
Death Company throw out the most attacks for their points and can be buffed with rerolls to charge and to hit with 100 points of Lemartes.
Sanguinary Guard are an expensive hammer unit that needs support both to maximise their attacks and ensure they don't get trashed.
Thank you very much for the feedback!
Ive been toying around in battlescribe and I like SQ the best BUT I still tend to DC because (at least for me) its easier to get them into combat.
Pop the 3D6 charge stratagem, rerolls with Lemartes. I guess it doesnt get better for a deepstrike unit.
I guess Ill have to try out and proxy the vanvets as SQ
Has anyone else been toying around with a firebase parked somewhere and a big kitted out SG death ball to go rampage from?
Just put a list up in the other forum around a firebase with a capt smash and lieutenant sitting around with some sniper scouts, dev squad and 2x whirlwinds while the sanguinor, libby in termie armour, sang ancient with banner and 9x sang guard (all with plas pistols and PF) go on a happy hunting spree.
3x intercessor squads and a redemptor dreaddy in there too but thats pretty much the idea of the list. I've yet to get some but i think the whirlwinds might be sticking in my list, 2 dmgstr 7 attacks across the board for 90pts?
with some snipers and intercessors in the right spot can clear enough chaff to get the sang guard in, and double batallion means you can go nuts with your turn 1 alpha and burn as much cp to get damage done.
Thanks for any feedback, always good to see what other players are doing.
I used a brigade with 3x5 hellblasters, 3x5 intercessors, a deredeo and ancient with SoS - literally unkillable. Slowly marched up the board with bare bones cpt for re-rolls (and to mitigate the deredeo's minus 1 to hit for walking) and put out a solid amount of dakka. CPT Smash and Vanvets to hammer against this anvil. Pretty solid IMO.
Yeah hellblasters are really screwed by the minus to hit and ++ meta. Such a shame because I think they look quite cool!
Regarding the Deredeo: You take him for granting the 5++ to your units? Why shouldn't your opponent not just focus the Deredeo down first turn and then focus the rest of your stuff?
I'm actually thinking about adding a support detachment of Custodes for the banner guy. But that would leave me with -1 CP and just 2 Batallions, so not quite sure about this.
Hellblasters look AWESOME. GW needs to give everyone orky plasma and reexamine invuln proliferation. As it stands, hellbasters are best vs other marines. /facepalm Marines need anti-xeno weapons, not anti-marine weapons.
I try to have target saturation to prevent the focus fire. If I get first turn, I have CPT Slam, Libby dread and VanVets all locked in combat. Three hard hitting, tough units right in their face forces them to ignore a strong supporting firebase. Not perfect, but has been effective
Death Company [18 PL, 168pts]: Jump Pack
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Thunder hammer
. Death Company Marine: Thunder hammer
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
+ Heavy Support +
Devastator Squad [8 PL, 141pts]: Armorium Cherub
. Space Marine: Plasma cannon
. Space Marine: Missile launcher
. Space Marine: Lascannon
. Space Marine: Heavy bolter
. Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun
I think that your points values are off. Lemartes went down to 100 points in CA2018. I think Captain Smash is 124 points too. Not sure about the other values.
Adding a cheap Lieutenant with Veritas Vitae to buff the Devastators is my usual tactic. You could also add a few extra marines with boltguns to the Dev squad. That way you can take a few casualties before you start losing expensive heavy weapons.
If you want to go Lemmy and DC route, it really isn't that bad. Lost against orks few days ago with batallion and DC.. in a friendly match. Have to say that the new bolter rule is nice. Killed ywo 30 boys squads and all three new vehicles in shooting and counter attacks. LRC is still a non-comp selection but with captain and dakka Baal sitting still were brutal. Two squads of DC just died horribly after charge. Glass-jaws...
DC have a lot of attacks and can be easily loaded up with full rerolls thanks to Lemmy but are basically just MEQs with a 6+++. They rarely survive to charge a second target as your opponent will make them target #1 after seeing what they do the first time round.
It is possible to keep them alive by carefully coordinating assaults with other units but this requires finesse and often quite a bit of luck.
A simpler approach is to accept they will probably die (which is quite fluffy) and just ensure that you throw them at a high value target. They will generally cause a lot of damage and attract a lot of firepower. The rest of your army can then exploit this by following them into the breach.
They can smash a hole in most defenses which the rest of your army can widen. Alternatively, they can blunt your enemy's assault by charging his spearhead unit(s). This can buy the rest of your army time to whittle the opponent down at range before your remaining CC units (like Captain Smash) finish them off.
Best case scenario is if you manage to trap an enemy model so he can't fall back and shoot you.
But this requires some experience and good knowledge of the movements in the charge phase.
A friend from our gaming group won a tournament in St. petersburg last weekend with his Drukhari. He challenged me to try out playing against his list. I could bring my death guard, but I feel like it's more satisfying to compete with Blood Angels. Now that I saw his list.. I dunno, do I really got anything to make the fight even semi-challenging for him. All the great tactical ideas are most welcome here..
My best bet for 1k BA so far has been the list shown on this page in this thread above. I can easily alter from there. Or do you think I shake his hand upfront and ask him to bring his Orks or Tau which are nasty as hell too..
Stalkers are a good counter to his ravagers and voidraven. Dreadnoughts look like a good counter to grotesques. I would play a dreadnought only army against him
Is anyone using Dante post CA?
I'm considering him atm: First let him buff my 20 Intercessors walking up the board, then fly to my SG / VanVets deepstriking in.
I have only used dante once. He is not worth his points. Pretty much all other chapter masters provide CPs, but not dante, some of them even cost less points. A captain is good enough as a source of re-rolls hit rolls of 1s. Dante allows re-rolls of 1s and 2s. Not worth ~100 pts. The SG ancient as your warlord (with standard of sacrifice) already lets you re-roll all failed hit rolls, plus 5+ FNP.
Some counter-arguments:
- Dante would allow for my Intercessors and more importantly then my Vanguard Vets / SG to reroll hits.
- SG reroll works only for models within 6"
- You would have to make the Ancient your WL and lose on some good WLT.
- Dante is actually not that bad against Knights, since they tend to be characters
A captain only allows you rerolling 1´s. Not a big deal for your Intercessors, but if we are talking Vanguard Vets with TH then it makes a big difference.
True but a I was planing on including both most likely.
Sure he does, but if you are forced to make him your WL you lose out on things like a 4D TH or Guard grand stratagist or something else.
Angels Wing Cpt and Dante do both an average of 6.48 wounds to the Knight (without Red Rampage). Sure Dante is more expensive so the Captain is a better ROI points for damge wise, but I wouldn´t call it 10 times better ;-)
lash92 wrote: A captain only allows you rerolling 1´s. Not a big deal for your Intercessors, but if we are talking Vanguard Vets with TH then it makes a big difference.
Well, not really. With dante you would only be able to re-roll 1s and 2s for vanguard vets with TH. Re-rolls before modifiers, which means you cant re-roll 3s. At the time of re-rolls a 3 is still a hit, and cant be re-rolled. It gets modified to 2 after re-rolls, because of the -1 to hit, and thats a miss.
I´m aware of this. My point was that rerolling 1´s and 2´s is more impactful compared to rerolling 1´s for a model which only hits on 4+ like VV with TH compared to a model which hits on 3+.
Astorath is handy for those kinds of assault unit's as he gives +1 to hit on a 2+ for unit's within 6" at the start of the movement phase. He might be worth a punt.
kryczek wrote: Astorath is handy for those kinds of assault unit's as he gives +1 to hit on a 2+ for unit's within 6" at the start of the movement phase. He might be worth a punt.
Only if he, and the unit he wants to buff, survives two turns after deepstriking, which is doubtful.
kryczek wrote: Astorath is handy for those kinds of assault unit's as he gives +1 to hit on a 2+ for unit's within 6" at the start of the movement phase. He might be worth a punt.
Only if he, and the unit he wants to buff, survives two turns after deepstriking, which is doubtful.
This!
While Astorath also grants full rerolls, he only grants it in CC and at that point I´m willing to invest the 75 points to upgrade an Astorath to a Dante.
Well, lemartes lets DC re-roll failed charges, and he can re-roll his failed charge. If your captain has black rage, he can re-roll as well, if close to lemartes. Angels wings also allows to re-roll a failed charge. But, its no fun failing those charges, even with re-rolls. Which happens a lot. Thats why i prefer ranged weapons on my deepstrikers, which usually are inceptors.
The babysitter really does for full effectiveness. Bottom line is that the way the game works, dc are 15 point models and sg are 28 ish pt models. There is no strategy or unit combo that fixes this.
How do you guys kit out your van vets and how do you play them? I've used them with plasma pistols and couple of storm shields to drop and soften a target/possible counter before I pull my jump captain from the gunline to make it's DoA charge. I think I wanna try something else with them.. they are my 2nd jump unit after I take SGas option A on all my lists.
Secondly what are your thoughts on shadowspear? Those DS denials and supressors might have a place in BA lists..
Blood Angels Vanguard Vet. You couldon't build several from this kit.
I also really like the Blood Angels Chaplain kit. Replaces his head and Crozius and add in a shield and go.
I made mine with a mix of Vanguard Vet and Sanguinary Guard parts. I like the fancy Jump Pack to represent the Angels Wing relic but this is purely cosmetic.
Mine uses the Blood Angels Jump Pack Chaplain as a base, I just removed the hands and head and put a Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield as well as a new head instead. It looks properly heroic for me.
Whats your opinion on the new Vanguard Primaris so far?
I think the models themself won´t help up that much, especially if the leaked point costs are true. And the psychic powers are nice but I don´t know how much we will benefit from them.
What I really are the two previewed WLT. Giving a unit a free +1 to hit is great, my first idea was an firebase of devs. Any other good applications?
The second is also nice. You could deploy 3x10 Scouts 9" away from your opponent and if you get second just redeploy them out of LOS.
lash92 wrote: Whats your opinion on the new Vanguard Primaris so far?
I think the models themself won´t help up that much, especially if the leaked point costs are true. And the psychic powers are nice but I don´t know how much we will benefit from them.
What I really are the two previewed WLT. Giving a unit a free +1 to hit is great, my first idea was an firebase of devs. Any other good applications?
The new Vanguards are not overwhelming. Suppressors give us another Jump Pack shooty unit to compliment Inceptors. Their ability to deny Overwatch is also quite useful since we only get one Angel's Wing.
Infiltrators look adequate but their points cost seems a tad high to me. If they come down to <20ppm I will look at them again but for now, I think Scouts fill that niche well enough for us.
Eliminators are a cheap Heavy choice which is decent if you want to run a Brigade. Not a bad idea given how CP-hungry Blood Angels can be. They also have the ability to ignore LOS which is nice for ITC games.
I would run the Warlord with +1 to-Hit with a big unit of Hellblasters. They get even more firepower than a Dev squad. Add an Ancient with Standard of Sacrifice and the Hellblasters get a 5+++ and can make a "parting shot" on a 4+. They are also immune to getting hot if they overcharge. I would start them off in a Repulsor in case the enemy gets 1st turn. This also has the advantage of being a second shooty unit that can benefit from the WLT if the enemy manages to kill your Hellbalsters. Build a dakka Repulsor and your Captain can boost either your anti-infantry shooting from the Repulsor if you need to clear hordes or the Hellblasters if you need to kill vehicles/elites. Add a cheap Lt to reroll 1s to wound and that is a very dangerous firebase.
I hate scouts. Hate them. I don't get the love affair with an 11 point model with 4+ armor. The deploy trick backfires as much as it helps.
These new units are being priced too high to displace them, though.
I'm working on converting all my lists to all intercessors, all the time. Dissy cannons be damned. Scouts and tacs are too crappy after not getting a price drop. Scouts are 8 point models and tacs are 10 point models.
I think most people love some because it's the cheapest way to fill out marine detachments. But after the point drops my two BA Batallions just have 2 scout units and the rest is intercessor.
lash92 wrote: I think most people love some because it's the cheapest way to fill out marine detachments. But after the point drops my two BA Batallions just have 2 scout units and the rest is intercessor.
That seems like a reasonable compromise. There ARE reasons to deploy out of the DZ, but not NEARLY like it was before the deep strike nerfs.
Well, been a bit (almost a year), since I took a short break from my BA and 40k. Came back and began looking at the point values CA: 2018 brought.
What do you guys think of Heavy Bolter Attack Bikes now? At 37 points kitted out, the Attack Bike puts out decent firepower (with the Bolter beta rule as well). Three of them taken in single bike units seems perfect to fill out the Fast Attack slots in a Brigade.
Okay, so Rhinos with two Storm Bolters... The Rhino is still fairly overcosted, but 8 shots that don't care about moving and shooting (with the Bolter beta rule), while still carrying 10 dudes, doesn't seem to be total trash. Would love to hear if there has been any life breathed into the Rhino recently.
Dreadnoughts, I still find them to be over costed for what they do, especially since we can't take Venerable Dreads for that sweet 2+ BS. However at this point, a Twin-Las/Dread CCW Dreadnought is only slightly more expensive than a Twin-Las Razorback... But can actually hit stuff that threatens my back line.
Like all Marine (and BA) units, a lot of our stuff still seems too expensive for what it does. But have any of you found a place in your lists for Attack Bikes, Rhinos, and Dreadnoughts post CA: 2018?
New vanguard primaris doesn't really supplement BA. Supressors, eliminators and infiltrators will go to my casual gaming lists, but comp? No. At 2k both supressors and eliminators are cheap enough for brigade but that's that.
One thing I started thinking is that we play 1,5k maelstorm mostly, so I might even test to deploy the librarian and reivers (now with phobos keyword) up front in cover and if I get the first turn I'll try to make the corridor psychic power to move again so it's one shot suicide unit possibly scoring an early objective. Deploy 9" away from the enemy line, move and then move again and advance. I should have a chance to reach that objective and give my other army a short rest while my enemy ravages the reiver squad from that objective. Scouts are speed bumbs why not try to give a speed bumb in the enemy deployment T1.. This will be very situational for sure, but something I'll try out.
Xirax wrote: New vanguard primaris doesn't really supplement BA. Supressors, eliminators and infiltrators will go to my casual gaming lists, but comp? No. At 2k both supressors and eliminators are cheap enough for brigade but that's that.
The only thing I am considering is taking the LT / Librarian and making them my WLT with the +1 to move, advance and charge rolls and pair this with a 12-15 aggressors supported with our fnp banner. With this trait aggressors are deceptively fast (10.5" on average^^)
I'm not so negative about the infiltrators, they allow us to play aggressive. We can set them up very close to the enemy and if we don't get first turn, one can use the new interesting WT to redeploy them somewhere else. Just placing them in a building in mid field gives us a nice board control and I'd be happy with that already. One cannot expect miracles from them but I'm still going to try 3x 5 men units and see how they do. Eliminators are amazing, the fact you can snipe and do it without line of sight is already a win condition for me.
Suppressors are probably a little bit underwhelming: they have mobility which they trade for reduced fire power. I'm still not sure how to use them.
Of course I've ordered the new box which I will split with my betrayer buddy.
Ok,
got my hands on the new vanguard primaris codex.
For you who might be interested the following points stand:
Captain 119
Librarian 111
Lieutenant 86
Inflitrators 22/32 for adept, which is compulsory in 10man unit
Suppressors 35 =105 for 3man
Eliminators 24 = 72 for 3man
Thanks for the points. They do look a tad expensive. Hopefully they will come down a bit just like the original Dark Imperium units did. If we could get those prices down 10-15%, they would start looking interesting.
Eliminators look better than Sniper Scouts for their points but are Heavy, not Troop which makes them less useful for a Battalion. I can see them being good to fill out a Brigade though.
I'm no competitive mastermind, but I saw one of the new Vanguard warlord traits and thought it at least merited discussion:
Princeps of Deceit
If your warlord has this trait, then at the start of the first battle round, but before the first turn has begun, pick up to three friendly <Chapter> Infantry units that are on the battlefield. You can immediately remove these units from the battlefield and set them up again as described in the Deployment section of the mission you are playing.
I read that as not only being able to move a unit from one side of the board to the other but as being able to take a deployed unit and move it into deepstrike if it has such a rule. I see this as being particularly useful with Death Company units and DVoS Captains, especially in missions where you might be required to set up your entire army first, and then your opponent counter-deploys. You could, for example, set up your blob of Death Company with the intention of Forlorn Fury'ing them up the board. If your opponent counters this by setting his army up in the diagonal corner you could pick your Death Company and just move them to the other side, right across from his/her juicy units. You could also just pick your Death Company up and put them into reserve if they deployed in such a way as to screen them out entirely, or more importantly if they seized the initiative from you. Another option might be to deploy both your Death Company and DVoS Captain on the board, and then just pick up the one which had been countered. If your opponent focuses on screening your large blob, but leaves a tiny hole your Captain could exploit, you can put your blob back into reserves and move your Captain to best exploit the gap with Forlorn Fury.
Like I said, I don't know if this is the most competitive trait now available to us, but just wanted to see others' thoughts.
Utilizing this warlord trait would also require making one of the new Vanguard HQs our warlord. I'm currently thinking the Librarian looks the most useful as the new psychic powers add a few tools to our toolbox. I'm not sold on the Phobos units, so the last three are the only ones I've really considered. Getting a CP back here and there seems useful, as well as halving movement of an enemy unit in all phases. As these powers require line of sight it could be an unnecessary risk, especially for your warlord, but you could also swap out one for the move/advance power and sort of 'fire and fade' your Librarian out of LoS after using whichever other power you had selected since he has the Phobos keyword himself.
It's a bit over 50% chance, but I like that idea. I would probably use that to move a gunline to shoot a juicy reachable target in most cases, but I can see a place to either move a DC blob from one side to another where it could use forlon's fury, movement and charge to reach that target or move a smash captain for forlon's fury if it can reach it's target.
But to move a gunline to a vulnerable flank and get that free shooting might have a huge impact in the game, when your opponent has counter deployed to avoid being shot. Move the DC blob, supressor squad and the phobos cpt/ltn to buff the suppressors to deny overwatch from the DC target and not having moved for heavy weapon purposes. I will definetely try this out asap. Sure it's most useful if you get the first turn or get the seize, but it wouöd let me deploy aggressively even if I don't seize and move my units's away from direct harm.
That strategy would work better with dark angels azrael, PCdevs, hellblasters to get that vuljeraboe flank your aggressive "so called deployment" forced your opponent to counter.
Intercessors work as well for BAs as any other Chapter. They are generally better than tactical squads and a bit better still with the new Bolter Discipline rule.
Inceptors are good as they can benefit from "Upon Wings of Fire" and the buff auras of any jump pack characters.
I have not run any of the other Primaris units yet but none of them stand out as being significantly better for BAs than any other chapter.
I have not picked up the Vanguard units yet. The infiltrators look interesting as they allow you to get a lot of Troops into the midfield quickly. They look like better bolter Scouts. The problem is their price looks a bit high for what they bring.
Eliminators look good. They are better than Sniper scouts for their points and they are pretty cheap. The only downside is that they are Heavy rather than Troops. Good if you are suffering from enemy buffing characters or if you need some cheap Heavy units to fill out a Brigade.
Suppressors also look interesting and fill a useful niche as we do not get many autocannon units outside of the Predator.
Overall a bit of a mixed bag. Potentially useful units but I am not sure they are much better than any of our existing toys.
Karhedron wrote: Intercessors work as well for BAs as any other Chapter. They are generally better than tactical squads and a bit better still with the new Bolter Discipline rule.
Inceptors are good as they can benefit from "Upon Wings of Fire" and the buff auras of any jump pack characters.
I have not run any of the other Primaris units yet but none of them stand out as being significantly better for BAs than any other chapter.
I have not picked up the Vanguard units yet. The infiltrators look interesting as they allow you to get a lot of Troops into the midfield quickly. They look like better bolter Scouts. The problem is their price looks a bit high for what they bring.
Eliminators look good. They are better than Sniper scouts for their points and they are pretty cheap. The only downside is that they are Heavy rather than Troops. Good if you are suffering from enemy buffing characters or if you need some cheap Heavy units to fill out a Brigade.
Suppressors also look interesting and fill a useful niche as we do not get many autocannon units outside of the Predator.
Overall a bit of a mixed bag. Potentially useful units but I am not sure they are much better than any of our existing toys.
Red Thirst is a good combo with Reivers who will get 3 attacks (with combat blade). The problem is that Reivers themselves are not particularly good. 3 S4 Ap- attacks is not going to threaten anything apart from chaff, even with Red Thirst. Like most units coming in from Reserves, they will struggle to make the 9" charge.
They have some interesting tricks such as shutting down overwatch but some of their other abilities (like -1 LD) hardly ever work because the kind of units they can threaten are generally immune to moral.
I have heard they will be getting the PHOBOS keyword to allow them synergise better with Vanguard units but I still don't rate them very highly. We have an excellent selection of assault units in our toolbox but Reivers really aren't among them.
Elites
Sanguinary Ancient [6 PL, 78pts]
Selections: 3. Soulwarden, Angelus boltgun, Death mask, Power fist, The Veritas Vitae, Warlord
Sanguinary Guard [20 PL, 256pts]
Sanguinary Guard
Selections: Angelus boltgun, Power fist
Sanguinary Guard
Selections: Angelus boltgun, Power fist
Sanguinary Guard
Selections: Angelus boltgun, Power fist
Sanguinary Guard
Selections: Angelus boltgun, Power fist
Sanguinary Guard
Selections: Angelus boltgun, Power fist
Sanguinary Guard
Selections: Angelus boltgun, Power fist
Sanguinary Guard
Selections: Angelus boltgun, Power fist
Sanguinary Guard
Selections: Angelus boltgun, Power fist
Heavy Support
Devastator Squad [8 PL, 150pts]
Selections: Armorium Cherub
Space Marine
Selections: Missile launcher
Space Marine
Selections: Missile launcher
Space Marine
Selections: Missile launcher
Space Marine
Selections: Missile launcher
Space Marine Sergeant
Selections: Boltgun
You can give your intercessors free grenade launchers, one per unit. Your sang ancient needs the standard of sacrifice. For 2 pts you can give your techmarine a stormbolter.
I would also give your Libby Dread Quickening rather than shield of Sanguinius as the +D3 attacks and +3" charge move is more useful generally than a 5++. The 5++ only kicks in against AP-3 and above. You can generally use the Libby Dread's CHARACTER status to shield it from heavy weapons fire. It may come in handy occasionally against nasty melee units but even then I prefer the extra attacks on the basis that a good offense is often the best defense. You won't need a 5++ if you can kill the enemy before it strikes.
I would also give your Libby Dread Quickening rather than shield of Sanguinius as the +D3 attacks and +3" charge move is more useful generally than a 5++. The 5++ only kicks in against AP-3 and above. You can generally use the Libby Dread's CHARACTER status to shield it from heavy weapons fire. It may come in handy occasionally against nasty melee units but even then I prefer the extra attacks on the basis that a good offense is often the best defense. You won't need a 5++ if you can kill the enemy before it strikes.
p5freak wrote: You can give your intercessors free grenade launchers, one per unit. Your sang ancient needs the standard of sacrifice. For 2 pts you can give your techmarine a stormbolter.
I'll keep this in mind and will change accordingly.
Same for Quickening.
Tiberius501 wrote: How does a BA Primaris army fair, maybe with some Sanguinary Guard added in? I was considering starting up the ol vampires again as nu marines.
Mixed bag really. Some Primaris units like Inceptors work really well with access to stratagems like "Upon Wings of Fire" and our ready access to jump pack characters to buff their shooting.
On the other hand, our Chapter Trait doesn't massively boost many Primaris units due to the lack of dedicated melee specialists.
Standard of Sacrifice works well on 2-wound models so Primaris get plenty of mileage out of it but if you are running Sanguinary Guard, it is probably needed with them even more.
My BA army has been pretty successful in 8th but I have generally used the Primaris marines as support elements rather than the main force of the army. Possibly some of the new units from Shadowspear like Infiltrators could work well. Infiltrating 30 models with 2 wounds and attacks each + Red Thirst close to the enemy could potentially be quite powerful against a lot of armies but I feel Infiltrators are a bit overpriced at the moment.
Still, the units in Dark Imperium came down a bit in price not long after release so if Infiltrators come down to under 20 points per model, they could make a promising core for a Primaris-heavy BA army.
Tiberius501 wrote: How does a BA Primaris army fair, maybe with some Sanguinary Guard added in? I was considering starting up the ol vampires again as nu marines.
Mixed bag really. Some Primaris units like Inceptors work really well with access to stratagems like "Upon Wings of Fire" and our ready access to jump pack characters to buff their shooting.
On the other hand, our Chapter Trait doesn't massively boost many Primaris units due to the lack of dedicated melee specialists.
Standard of Sacrifice works well on 2-wound models so Primaris get plenty of mileage out of it but if you are running Sanguinary Guard, it is probably needed with them even more.
My BA army has been pretty successful in 8th but I have generally used the Primaris marines as support elements rather than the main force of the army. Possibly some of the new units from Shadowspear like Infiltrators could work well. Infiltrating 30 models with 2 wounds and attacks each + Red Thirst close to the enemy could potentially be quite powerful against a lot of armies but I feel Infiltrators are a bit overpriced at the moment.
Still, the units in Dark Imperium came down a bit in price not long after release so if Infiltrators come down to under 20 points per model, they could make a promising core for a Primaris-heavy BA army.
Thanks for the reply and advice.
As long as they're half effective it's good enough for me, I'm not too competitive. Just wanted to make sure they wouldn't just get splattered into red mist.
So we can fly through units in the movement and charge phase, but not the fight phase, correct? So during pile-in and consolidate, in order to take hostages, models still need to move around rather than through. Is that accurate? I hope not.
hintzy wrote: So we can fly through units in the movement and charge phase, but not the fight phase, correct? So during pile-in and consolidate, in order to take hostages, models still need to move around rather than through. Is that accurate? I hope not.
Sadly I don't think you can do that. In addition I still don't understand why you can cross a terrain feature only during the Movement phase but you can fail the charge as you have to take into account the vertical distance... If I play with some high piece of terrain ruin it is still very hard to engage that annoying unit sitting on the top. I'm still disappointed with the rules: I haven't been playing our core blood angels units, namely DC and sanguinary guards, because they literally destroyed their mobility for which we are still paying for! I was hoping we could get back to the horizontal charge but no...
What would the thoughts of the community here be about a dedicated flamer unit? I'm thinking the following:
1 Devastator Squad, 4 heavy flamers, 1 combi-flamer, armorium cherub.
1 Lieutenant, combi-flamer.
1 Razorback, 2 heavy flamers.
This will get an effective threat range of 3" disembark +6" move +8" range, and roll 4+1+2 heavy flamer shots with 2 flamer shots and two bolter shots (one at +1 BS). It's not especially resilient, but 9D6 flame hits re-rolling 1s to wound is pretty threatening. The whole thing's around 300-ish points.
Other options for filling this kind of role would be company veterans/sternguard all carrying combi-flamers which would have a lower strength, but be able to advance and fire for additional threat range, and be a little cheaper in points. Another one could be a couple of Baal Preds.
Would this be a useful unit to field, all things considered? My main worry would be that it'd be too easy for the enemy to eliminate/neutralise if they wanted to, and not make it's points back.
Personally I am not a big fan of flamers and heavy flamers in 8th, I think they are overpriced for what they bring and painfully short ranged.
For similar points you can get 7 Bolter Inceptors ( a 3 and 4 man squad). These will give you a similar number of S5 AP-1 hits as those flamers but with a range of 18" rather than 8". They also have a 10" move so do not need a transport. They can deploy on the board or in reserve as needed. They can redeploy with UWOF if we need them to.
They are similar in terms of durability although every 2 wounds will kill a model whereas your opponent will have to chew through the Razorback to get to your infantry (until you disembark at least).
The big advantage of the flamer unit is their awesome overwatch. However it has to be said that even they don't want to get tied up in combat as it will shut down their shooting while Inceptors can withdraw and still shoot. Also the longer range of Inceptors means they can shoot without automatically putting themselves in charge range of the survivors.
Overall I would say Inceptors are better than flamer squads, especially for Blood Angels.
30 Intercessors with the ancient and standard of sacrifice is amazing. I have also been using 2 Redemptor Dreads and playtesting with 2 Primaris Librarians, giving them a 5++ save always unless my opponent goes first/deny roll. If I go first they are extremely tanky assuming the powers go off. Libbies also benifet from the standard, add a Gravis Captain for more fun for your firebase. Stuff gets close? No prob, you got the Dreads and Gravis captain and dont be afraid to get your librarian force swords dirty.
Hey all, new to Blood Angels. What is a good 1000-1500 list I can make with what I have? Currently I have the following:
2 Smash Captains
Sang priest plastic with jp 3 Furioso deadnaughts
15 Assault sqaud
20+ Tac sqaud
20 death company
9 sang guard
dante
mephiston
lemartes
chaplain w/Jump pack
3 Scout Bikers
15 sniper scouts
Any help would be appreciated and i would be going up against Death Guard, Eldar, Dark Angels, or Tau. I do have 2 chaos rhinos and 2 chaos land raiders my opponents wouldn’t mind me fielding as BA.
Welcome to the chapter brother. You have a not too bad collection so far but you will want to get some primaris in the future.
I would start with a battalion led by Mephiston and a slam cap, or 2, and using the 15 snipers as the troops. This will give you CP and some board control. Not to mention 2 of our best characters.
Lemartes and 15 JPDC is a good start to a vanguard detachment. Add in 8 SG and use 1 as an ancient and the detachment is full. Your other chaplin could go with the SG in here maybe? I use Asorath with mine.
You could then do another battalion with 3 5 man tactical squad's equipped to your taste. Have this led by the second chaplin and the SP.
I don't think you have enough armour in here with only the 3 dreads (i'm not including the chaos here) so i would suggest taking all or none. Or if any can be used as a librarian or venerable chaplin dread then use them as those instead. You could maybe get a vanguard detachment out of it but only really for fun.
Other thoughts are that Dante is too expensive. Slam>Dante. Assault squads get painted black now and become DC as there just better but not by much. I'm also of the mind that Mephiston is too expensive now but YMMV on that. Alway's use the Scout biker's if you can. By all accounts they are excellent.
I hope this helps in some small way.
Also woohoo the threads back. I'd began to think it was truly dead. Like our competitiveness lol.
Slam capt is not strictly better. I have both in my list with dante.
I mean he has more attacks....
Allows you to reroll 2s....
Less strength, less damage, worst save
And 50 points more.
I'm sure you could imagine a scenario such as killing T3 characters he performs slightly better. Again though I cant think of many characters the smash captain couldn't take care of.
In a tournament setting where you are going up against 5-6 random opponents Smash Captains trumps Dante in a big way.
Mephiston Is actually okay. Though LIbby Dread is still better as they are cheaper and more durable and if it's your warlord having 4 damage a piece can make it dumpster big targets making it more versatile.
kryczek wrote: Welcome to the chapter brother. You have a not too bad collection so far but you will want to get some primaris in the future.
I would start with a battalion led by Mephiston and a slam cap, or 2, and using the 15 snipers as the troops. This will give you CP and some board control. Not to mention 2 of our best characters.
Lemartes and 15 JPDC is a good start to a vanguard detachment. Add in 8 SG and use 1 as an ancient and the detachment is full. Your other chaplin could go with the SG in here maybe? I use Asorath with mine.
You could then do another battalion with 3 5 man tactical squad's equipped to your taste. Have this led by the second chaplin and the SP.
I don't think you have enough armour in here with only the 3 dreads (i'm not including the chaos here) so i would suggest taking all or none. Or if any can be used as a librarian or venerable chaplin dread then use them as those instead. You could maybe get a vanguard detachment out of it but only really for fun.
Other thoughts are that Dante is too expensive. Slam>Dante. Assault squads get painted black now and become DC as there just better but not by much. I'm also of the mind that Mephiston is too expensive now but YMMV on that. Alway's use the Scout biker's if you can. By all accounts they are excellent.
I hope this helps in some small way.
Also woohoo the threads back. I'd began to think it was truly dead. Like our competitiveness lol.
Much appreciated! And thanks for the welcome, glad I could restimulate this thread. I’m not too worried about competitive as I only play with friends and we are pretty casual (though we all try to win). I got this lot for a good price, I will expand it gradually. What Primaris should I be looking at? The assault marines don’t have jump packs unfortunately and are red but I can do some modeling and turn them into DC in due time. Looking forward to getting a game in with these guys. Any recommendations on best loadouts? I seem to have a bit of everything but no one will mind if I proxy a few games until I can model the proper loadouts in.
Intercessors are a pretty decent Troops unit. For 20 points more than a naked Tactical squad, you get twice as many wounds, better, longer-ranged bolters and superior leadership. 2 or 3 5-man squads will give you something to hold objectives that won't die to a stiff breeze and can contribute somewhat at range. The new rule "Bolter Discipline" works well with their bolt rifles.
Inceptors are a unit I have become very fond of with my Blood Angels as they provide a lot of mobile firepower. A 3-man bolter squad only costs 135 points but puts out the equivalent of 18 heavy bolter shots per turn (shorter range but they are Assault so no penalty to moving). Plus they are jump units so can benefit from the "Upon Wings of Fire" stratagem if you need to redeploy them.
Plasma Inceptors bring some serious levels of firepower to bear. They do need a Jump Pack Captain to accompany them though as they need to overcharge on most turns to make their points back so you need to give them a character who allows them to reroll 1s or they will mostly kill themselves with overheats.
The problem with plasma inceptors is they will die very soon after deepstriking, and doing some damage. Those guys rarely make their points back. My smash captain once killed 5 of them in melee They are expensive and not hard to kill.
Elites
Death Company
Selections: Jump Pack
Death Company Marine x4
Selections: Boltgun, Power fist
Death Company Marine x11
Selections: Boltgun, Chainsword
Sanguinary Ancient
Selections: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine sword
Not an ideal set up but I tried to keep everything WYSIWYG. I have several other special/heavy marine options as well but I thought plasma would be good for some heavy hitting range.
Elites
Death Company
Selections: Jump Pack
Death Company Marine x4
Selections: Boltgun, Power fist
Death Company Marine x11
Selections: Boltgun, Chainsword
Sanguinary Ancient
Selections: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine sword
Not an ideal set up but I tried to keep everything WYSIWYG. I have several other special/heavy marine options as well but I thought plasma would be good for some heavy hitting range.
Looks ok, but if you want to run everything WYSIWYG its not going to be optimal. Optimal would be : Some anti tank ranged weapons on your troops, like ML or LC. Or a dev squad. Dont run 15 DC, even with lemartes you will lose some models to morale. Go with 10. The sang ancient should be your warlord, with the standard of sacrifice. SG should all have PP and PF. One smash captain should have the angels wings.
That's a good start @Gangland. I agree with p5 in that you'll definitely need some ranged AT but that will come in time. Although I would recommend hellblasters instead of devastators I appreciate that YMMV on that.
I disagree with the DC though for me it's go big or go home. Between Forlorn fury and/or DS if you're losing DC to morale before there in assault then i think they may be getting used incorrectly.
Again i disagree with the SG set up. Half swords half fists is best IMHO, even though fists are cheaper, and don't bother with the PP's as the SG are too expensive to be killing yourself.
I don't make my ancient or slam warlord as they tend to die too easily but because of this I've no re-rolls for shooting hence no PP. I pair my 8-10 SG with Astorath + SG ancient and keep my warlord in the core of my army where he's not giving away points. Again YMMV on this and I would recommend experimenting.
Totally agree with p5 on the Angels wing and standard of sacrifice though.
Elites
Death Company
Selections: Jump Pack
Death Company Marine x4
Selections: Boltgun, Power fist
Death Company Marine x11
Selections: Boltgun, Chainsword
Sanguinary Ancient
Selections: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine sword
Not an ideal set up but I tried to keep everything WYSIWYG. I have several other special/heavy marine options as well but I thought plasma would be good for some heavy hitting range.
Looks ok, but if you want to run everything WYSIWYG its not going to be optimal. Optimal would be : Some anti tank ranged weapons on your troops, like ML or LC. Or a dev squad. Dont run 15 DC, even with lemartes you will lose some models to morale. Go with 10. The sang ancient should be your warlord, with the standard of sacrifice. SG should all have PP and PF. One smash captain should have the angels wings.
The SG having plasma pistols is easy enough to model with what they have so I’ll do that but yeah the melee is not as optimal. What you get for buying 2nd hand but I’m not playing tournaments any so meh. I got another box of SG I saw for cheap at a LGS so I’ll build those with PFs (maybe magnetize).
I am proxying the ancient since I have the model just unbuilt but my friend won’t care as what I’m using is distinct enough from the rest. My group rarely plays WYSIWYG anyway but this is my 2nd army and for a twist (I don’t play that way with my chaos) I want to try and keep everything as WYSIWYG. Will I break that rule? Oh yeah, but I’m going to try anyway just to explore that whole etiquette side of the hobby.
I do have a missle launcher Marine so I’ll swap the plasma for him.
What is the ideal set up for Death Company with Lemartes melee weapon wise. Or is there a mix that works well? Let’s call it for around 2500pt games. I know I was talking 1500 earlier but 2500 is what we usually play or around that points range. Just so I know what I need to be looking for going forward.
Gangland wrote: What is the ideal set up for Death Company with Lemartes melee weapon wise. Or is there a mix that works well? Let’s call it for around 2500pt games. I know I was talking 1500 earlier but 2500 is what we usually play or around that points range. Just so I know what I need to be looking for going forward.
I normally run a squad of 10 with bolters, 5 chainswords, 3 power swords and 2 hammers which works pretty well and can tackle most targets without being excessively expensive. In part it depends on what else you have in your army and what you think you will struggle to deal with. I have dedicated anti-horde and anti-tank in my army so I want my DC to pose a credible threat to the widest range of targets. This is because I tend to play them aggressively and a hammer unit. I throw them at a key part of the enemy line and rely on them to cause enough damage to create a hole the rest of my forces can exploit.
So I played my first game with my Blood Angels yesterday and managed to pull off a win! 1500pts and I played against Dark Angels. My list was as follows:
Elites
Death Company
Selections: Jump Pack
Death Company Marine x4
Selections: Boltgun, Power fist
Death Company Marine x11
Selections: Boltgun, Chainsword
Sanguinary Ancient
Warlord: Heroic Bearing
Relic:Standard of Sacrifice
Selections: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine sword
Sniper Scout Squad
2x 5 Man Tactical Squads
10 Man Intercessor Squad
Infiltrator Squad
3x 5 Man Deathwing Terminator Squads
Supressor Squad
We played the Ascension scenario from CA 2017. Basically I pushed up the board with Sanguinary Guard, Ancient, and captains while my snipers ant tactical shot from the back.Death Company and Lemartes were in Deepstrike as well as 10 of my opponents Terminators and Belial. I had first turn and was able to tie up the intercessors, a unit of termies, and a tactical squad receiving minimal losses. Turn 2 I took out the termie unit with one of the captains, and the Guard took out intercessors, suppressors, and Librarian. opponent turn 2 saw a termie + belial deep strike my Guards rear (hot cha cha chaaa). My Guard unit was hurting but still in the game along with the captains but the Ancient was dead turn 3 I think. I Deep Striked the Death Company along with Lemartes turn 3 to counter the termie drop and before turn 5 I had wiped out the termies and Belial causing my opponent to GG as he had 1 scout, 5 tacticals engaged with one of the captains with support on the way, 2 Infiltrators, and 1 lone termie who got the f- out of dodge.
I had 4 DC w/ powerfists, Guard with power ax, 2 captains, Lemartes, 2x 4 man scout units, and my tactical squad left.
Fun game. I definitely had some beginners luck with my rolls though. I made a good few 6+ saves. It was pretty neck and neck the entire game. The SG were a great tankie unit and were able to push into his deployment zone. I really enjoyed the 12" move, that made the game right there as I covered a lot of ground quickly. Anyway this is shaping up to be a fun army to collect and play with.
If it helps at all, this is pretty much what I have been running, modified since the last Chapter Approved. Had fairly good luck with it when I still playing weekly:
Tactical Squad [5 PL, 87pts] . 3x Space Marine
. Space Marine (Special weapon): Plasma gun
. Space Marine Sergeant: Chainsword, Combi-plasma
Tactical Squad [5 PL, 87pts] . 3x Space Marine
. Space Marine (Special weapon): Plasma gun
. Space Marine Sergeant: Chainsword, Combi-plasma
Tactical Squad [5 PL, 87pts] . 3x Space Marine
. Space Marine (Special weapon): Plasma gun
. Space Marine Sergeant: Chainsword, Combi-plasma
+ Elites +
Company Ancient [4 PL, 63pts]: Boltgun, Standard of Sacrifice
Company Veterans [8 PL, 80pts] . Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Storm bolter
. Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Storm bolter
. Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Storm bolter
. Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Storm bolter
. Veteran Sergeant: Chainsword, Storm bolter
Death Company [18 PL, 236pts]: Jump Pack
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Power fist
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Power fist
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Power fist
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Power fist
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
Attack Bike Squad [3 PL, 37pts] . Attack Bike: Heavy bolter, Twin boltgun
Attack Bike Squad [3 PL, 37pts] . Attack Bike: Heavy bolter, Twin boltgun
Attack Bike Squad [3 PL, 37pts] . Attack Bike: Heavy bolter, Twin boltgun
+ Heavy Support +
Devastator Squad [8 PL, 130pts]: Armorium Cherub
. Space Marine: Missile launcher
. Space Marine: Missile launcher
. Space Marine: Missile launcher
. Space Marine: Boltgun
. Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun
Devastator Squad [8 PL, 130pts]: Armorium Cherub
. Space Marine: Missile launcher
. Space Marine: Missile launcher
. Space Marine: Missile launcher
. Space Marine: Boltgun
. Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun
Devastator Squad [8 PL, 130pts]: Armorium Cherub
. Space Marine: Missile launcher
. Space Marine: Missile launcher
. Space Marine: Missile launcher
. Space Marine: Boltgun
. Space Marine Sergeant: Boltgun
+ Dedicated Transport +
Rhino [4 PL, 74pts]: 2x Storm bolter
++ Total: [129 PL, -1CP, 1,998pts] ++
Those three Devastator squads have put out solid work for me when they are camped within 6" of the Company Ancient, Captain, and LT. The price drop to Missile Launchers has made them even more attractive to me, as Frag Missiles had saved my butt many times if there is a lack of hard targets.
This isn't the most competitive list, but was tons of fun to play, and avoids use of Index or Forge World options. The changes to Marine bolters has made the humble Rhino a decent gun platform, and I would run it with filled with 1 Tac Squad and the Company Vets (who are a pretty solid budget option to deal with hordes).
The other 2 Tac Squads would be on foot, or drop the Dreadnought to take a Razorback (with a few other options) to be able to put two Tac Squads in the Rhino, and the Vets in the Razorback to put out a decent volume of firepower. The vets are also great for keeping your support characters alive if the enemy has a decent volume of snipers.
For delivering the Death Company safely, I found a generic Librarian with The Angel's Wing to be great, since they can cast Wings of Sanguinius to get closer to the enemy to ensure they get the charge to shut down Overwatch. I personally prefer Power Fists on my Death Company, mainly due to a love of Power Fists, but they are also cheaper than Hammers, and allows them to make use of the free Boltgun they get. I found more than 10 Death Company to generally be a waste, as they will overkill most things they charge and likely lose models to morale in your opponent's (even with Lemartes hanging around them).
I tried keeping the assault element of my army pretty condensed, as you can only support so many assault units/models, and even with a Brigade you can really only fuel an assault by the Death Company once if you plan to use rerolls at all during the game or Honour the Chapter more than once on Lemartes or a Captain Slam variant. Plus, while Blood Angels excel in assaults, they still are able to shoot like other Marines, and I saw no reason to pass up using their good 3+ BS.
I used my Captain Slam-lite as a backfield defender to deal with models that are pushing near my Devastators, and with the Sanguinary Priest nearby, he becomes pretty capable of dealing with anything that is T7 or below when using Honour the Chapter, Red Rampage, and Death Visions of Sanguinius.
Hopefully this helped some. And it is great to hear that your game against Dark Angels was a success.
This isn't the most competitive list, but was tons of fun to play, and avoids use of Index or Forge World options. The changes to Marine bolters has made the humble Rhino a decent gun platform, and I would run it with filled with 1 Tac Squad and the Company Vets (who are a pretty solid budget option to deal with hordes).
Vehicles dont benefit from the bolter discipline rule anymore. This was changed in the april FAQ 2019.
For delivering the Death Company safely, I found a generic Librarian with The Angel's Wing to be great, since they can cast Wings of Sanguinius to get closer to the enemy to ensure they get the charge to shut down Overwatch.
This is illegal. Units that arrive as reinforcements (after deepstriking) cannot move any further this turn. This includes wings of sanguinius. This FAQ came out a long time ago, in the BRB update 1.2, which was 2018.
Q. The rules for reinforcements say that when a unit is set up
on the battlefield as reinforcements, it cannot move or Advance
further that turn, but can otherwise act normally (shoot,
charge, etc.).
Can such a unit make a charge move? Can it pile in
and consolidate?
A: Yes to both questions – the unit can declare a charge
and make a charge move, and if it is chosen to fight, it
can pile in and consolidate.
Can such a unit move or Advance for any other reason e.g.
because of an ability such as The Swarmlord’s Hive Commander
ability, or because of a psychic power such as Warptime from
the Dark Hereticus discipline, or because of a Stratagem like
Metabolic Overdrive from Codex: Tyranids, etc.?
A: No.
Looks like I’ll begoing up against Death Guard tomorrow. 1500pts. And recommendations on list tweeks?
Against Death Guard I suggest picking the thing in his army which is the biggest threat to yours and over kill that. Don't get greedy otherwise with some lucky rolls on your opponents behalf and you end up doing nothing.
Yup, Death Guard are always tougher than you expect so don't be tempted to dilute your firepower/melee.
Last time I faced DG, I ran a full 10-man squad of Sanguinary Guard backed up by Ancient with SoS, Sanguinor, JP Libby and JP Sanguinary Priest (Index option).
It was spectacular. Between the 2+/5+++ and healing of the SP, 2 of them actually survived to the end of the game. The Deathball and characters carved through 2 squads of DG, assorted HQs and 5 Daemon engines.
You don't have to be quite so eggs-in-one basket but you do need commit.
Well I was able to pull off a victory. We played the Doomsday Device scenario from Vigilus. I was the defender. He called it end of turn 3 as he had not done any damage to the device and I had most of his heavy stuff in a losing(?) CC. Board control wise I say we were neck and neck with maybe a slight lead for him.
What's our best options for fast attack? Assault troops obviously fit with our theme very well, but so we really need more jump pack assault troops? Maybe if you're bringing a heavy DC/Furiosa dread list, assault squads would be good? Otherwise bike squads seem like they'd also fit with our army OK since they're mobile, and that's one of our strengths to play to.
Gangland wrote: Hey all, new to Blood Angels. What is a good 1000-1500 list I can make with what I have? Currently I have the following:
2 Smash Captains
Sang priest plastic with jp 3 Furioso deadnaughts
15 Assault sqaud
20+ Tac sqaud
20 death company
9 sang guard
dante
mephiston
lemartes
chaplain w/Jump pack
3 Scout Bikers
15 sniper scouts
Any help would be appreciated and i would be going up against Death Guard, Eldar, Dark Angels, or Tau. I do have 2 chaos rhinos and 2 chaos land raiders my opponents wouldn’t mind me fielding as BA.
Hey all so I have added the following to my built list above, still stuff on sprue but all in due time. So who wants to help me bump up to 2k points?
10 scouts with boltguns
5 scouts with snipers
6 assult marines with jump packs
6 primaris inceptors with the assualt guns
15 marines with boltguns
1 chaplain with jumppack
1 smash cpt
1 custom apothercry
1 libiran with jump pack
The Shadowspear set Primaris half
1 Smash cpt with jump pack
Scout bikers are very good value for its points. For 71 points you get 12 bolter shots at 24". Plus 6 shotgun shots (like a bolter) at 12". At 6" the shotguns are S5. Charge for 7 melee attacks with +1 to wound, next turn fallback and play the mine stratagem for 1CP which does D3 MW on the enemy unit. They move 16", or 22" when advancing, and have T5 W2 for every model.
p5freak wrote: You need some anti armor long range weapons. Like PC, ML, LC.
Yeah I usually take those on a tactical squad. My 1500pt list went with a ML which worked well as you get a bit anti infantry and armor.
Thats not really a good idea. A dev squad with one anti armor gun costs the same as a tac squad with one anti armor gun, but the dev squad sarge can give one model +1 to hit.
p5freak wrote: You need some anti armor long range weapons. Like PC, ML, LC.
Yeah I usually take those on a tactical squad. My 1500pt list went with a ML which worked well as you get a bit anti infantry and armor.
Thats not really a good idea. A dev squad with one anti armor gun costs the same as a tac squad with one anti armor gun, but the dev squad sarge can give one model +1 to hit.
I agree with the above. Inceptors provide great dakka for their points and Scouts bikes are cheap and flexible mobile harassment.
I haven't tried Suppressors yet but they look good on paper. Autocannons are in a pretty good place at the moment as they have good S and RoF and are not unduly bothered by invulnerable saves. The ability to shut down overwatch on targets can be very nice for when our fighty units are about to get stuck in.
Almost pure Blood Angels. Sadly he has brought an assassin but apart from that.
Awesome effort Sanguinius would be proud
Any idea what relics and Warlord trait he used? I got a BA army piling dust that would love to kick some ass. I've been playing the xenos for more than year and would like to unleash my DC
We read this, and its hard to believe that he made it work, the list isnt even optimized. There are ways to improve it. I think he got lucky, and he wont be able to repeat that at more tournaments.
Really? I think it looks pretty optimised to me. What improvements would you suggest? I would run Lemartes instead of the normal Chaplain but that is just personal preference.
He definitely got lucky, but he beat the old sub 40% win rate handily. I think the real lesson is sanguinor and unleash rage are a thing. Its the best we can do to buff like csm.
Karhedron wrote: Really? I think it looks pretty optimised to me. What improvements would you suggest? I would run Lemartes instead of the normal Chaplain but that is just personal preference.
I would run lemartes as well, lemmy is a must when you run DC. And i would remove the sanguinor, and replace him with more DC or SG, or a second slam captain. I also wouldnt use swords and boltguns on the SG, all PF and PG. Sword is 12 and PF is 9. The sword should be 6-7, 12 is ridiculous. One S8 overcharging plasma shot with ancient re-rolls is better than two boltgun shots at S4.
Really good point on the weapons. But on the lemartes/sanguinor situation I have some doubts. Lemartes would boost the DC , but a normal chaplain give you more flexibility in helping the SG or even the backline as well. Sanguinor is +1A and a killing machine, why would you loose him and get even more bodies? Do you think the body count is too low?
Lemartes is far from a must with DC. You are still vulnerable to battleshock. He doesn't buff other marines. If the DC die, he's basically useless. Sanguinor is more valuable than Lemartes.
I never use plasma on SG, either. The way 8th rolls, the only units that get plasma are ASM, and sometimes VV. I don't want units as expensive as SG killing themselves ever.
In my experience, the second slam captain has diminishing returns since you can't red rampage both and one of them can't ignore OW.
What if the sanguinor fails its 9" charge after deepstriking ? You only get one 3D6 charge per turn. Lemartes can re-roll his own charge roll, DC with lemmy can too. Sanguinor cant re-roll his own charge roll, and he doesnt provide a re-roll buff. I am not taking that risk for 150 pts. I also wouldnt run a 15 model DC unit, because of morale. If 10 die, the rest will run away, unless spending 2CP, but 5 DC models arent worth it. You dont have to deepstrike both slam captains in one turn.
The way I saw him playing the list is that he DS at Max one unit, than the rest of the army uses terrains for cover and the infiltrators to defend vs DS. It is definitely an hard list to play with little margins of errors. But in his list, with a full buffed DC or SG destroy anything it touches..
p5freak wrote: What if the sanguinor fails its 9" charge after deepstriking ? You only get one 3D6 charge per turn. Lemartes can re-roll his own charge roll, DC with lemmy can too. Sanguinor cant re-roll his own charge roll, and he doesnt provide a re-roll buff. I am not taking that risk for 150 pts. I also wouldnt run a 15 model DC unit, because of morale. If 10 die, the rest will run away, unless spending 2CP, but 5 DC models arent worth it. You dont have to deepstrike both slam captains in one turn.
You don't deep strike sanguinor? I'm not deep striking either slam captain. They just aren't that good w/o ignore overwatch, imo. I'd rather have other HQs. Like Sanguinor. What is it with the deep striking?
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Emicrania wrote: The way I saw him playing the list is that he DS at Max one unit, than the rest of the army uses terrains for cover and the infiltrators to defend vs DS. It is definitely an hard list to play with little margins of errors. But in his list, with a full buffed DC or SG destroy anything it touches..
Not PB. Not grotesques. Not bulls. You still have to be careful. And yes, the only unit I deepstrike regularly are DC. And yes, you want 15 DC so you can maximize buffs and tricorner at max efficiency. So you need ignore morale, not LD 9.
SG, particularly with the fnp banner, are far more durable. They are basically immune to ap 0 which has a lot of uses. They also get rerolls from any warlord and dont need a special babysitter.
SG are way, way better. They are T4 W2 2+ sv, PF and PP for 34 pts. SG can re-roll all failed hit rolls for shooting and melee with a warlord (sang ancient) nearby. If the sang ancient has the standard of sacrifice they also get a 5+ FNP.
JPDC has T4 W1 3+ sv, PF and PP for 31 pts. With lemartes they can re-roll failed charges and failed attacks in melee, thats it. No FNP from the standard of sacrifice. Only their own 6+ FNP.
Because the sang ancient has the blood angels chapter banner rule, which allows him to get the standard of sacrifice, giving SG a 5+ FNP. He lets SG re-roll wound rolls of 1 in the fight phase, and all failed hit rolls in the shoot and fight phase.
I like the 5-0 list. He even played the other 5-0 player from the Tournament after and won against him for 6-0 in total.
But 2 wins were from the opponent timing out. 1 win from his opponent crushing him but taking worthless secondaries and scoring like 0 points on them. I have been crushed 39-4 but still managed to score recon once. Looked like his nid opponent rolled really bad too and almost killed himself in the psychic phase. And kinda good terrain for his list too from what I could gather.
Not saying he or his list is bad but from reading his battle reports it wasnt the strength of BA that made him go 5-0. He could probably have done the same with any army since it looks like he out played his opponent most of the time. And surrounding factors gave him some of the wins. Recon on the orks and 15min extra time in 2 matches and it would have been 3-3.
Taking some inspiration from it since it looks awesome but get a bit irritated that some use his results as a dismissal to all the complaints that BA are in a bad spot. "It cant be bad since someone went 5-0 with it"
It takes 5 seconds at looking the ITC results to understand how bad the BA are atm. At the same time is refreshing and makes me hopefull to see a pure BA list winning a major.
But I really don't agree about the "if" and "could". He won a Major because who plays it is good and the list is good. End of discussion.
Every game out there, from magic to 40k, you have people copying the "winners" deck or list and getting crushed regularly. It is a dice game and skills are involved. A lot can go wrong and a lot can go good, but any good player will inevitably reduce the randomness and bend the luck to his will.
Emicrania wrote: It takes 5 seconds at looking the ITC results to understand how bad the BA are atm. At the same time is refreshing and makes me hopefull to see a pure BA list winning a major.
But I really don't agree about the "if" and "could". He won a Major because who plays it is good and the list is good. End of discussion.
Every game out there, from magic to 40k, you have people copying the "winners" deck or list and getting crushed regularly. It is a dice game and skills are involved. A lot can go wrong and a lot can go good, but any good player will inevitably reduce the randomness and bend the luck to his will.
I don't think that is end of discussion. If it were then BA would be in a good spot since someone won with it. I am not downplaying the player or his list since both is great but Blood Angels as a Codex. Sometimes the "if" and "could" do matter though. Had the ork player taken any board control secondaries as he should have he would have won that match and he doing that is a huge oversight since he would have won the match under any other rules probably since from what I gather he had control of the game from turn 1. That game the BA army won on a technicality. Same with the 2 time outs. I kinda expect a top finish to have one game like that during the early matches during the tournament but since it wasn't a one off I think it should be taken into consideration when discussing how good his list is and the state of BA today.
His battle reports showed what is needed for BA to go that well in a tournament. It also shows that BA doesn't have to be a roll over if played by a competent player and can fight back but you really need the stars to align to actually win it all with them. I even liked his list and reports enough to put a JP on Chief Librarian Ezekiel and spend a whole day painting him red for my own army and try to play my list more like he did.
All I want to say is that it's an outlier and it can be good to take a second glance and see how and why it happened so people don't jump to conclusions.
I never thought for a second that BA are a top tier army, which is why they are collecting dust and I'm playing my freebooterz orks every tournaments with good results.
My point is that that list is better than people belive because is a "horde" based army, where all the hard shots are wasted on infantry (yeah I know is only 60 models, I play 80 with orks, so
My battles are NEVER rolling over. I just have a horrible tendency to run out of marines at bad times.
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Emicrania wrote: Mhhhh, you guys making a lot of sense , still I d love to field both.
How comes you wanna have the Sang ancient as warlord anf not the Smash Cap?
DC get one extra attack, provide a better target for unit buffs, and are better at tricornering because of reroll access and 15 unit size. But they die easily if your opponent gets to shoot them.
Emicrania wrote: Mhhhh, you guys making a lot of sense , still I d love to field both.
How comes you wanna have the Sang ancient as warlord anf not the Smash Cap?
One trick I have played with a fair degree of success is making a regular Sanguinary Guard model my Warlord. Yes you do lose out on the WL trait but it also means you are guaranteed full rerolls on the SG all the time. No embarassment if the SG make their charge roll and your WL fails. Losing a WL trait does hurt a little but if you are investing 350+ points in a big SG squad, guaranteeing full rerolls is really good.
I feel like space Marines in general are an entry army but require a lot of skills to be played right. Every mistake is very, very costly.
Playing then competitively requires a lot of training and planning.
I feel like other army are more forgiving and easier to play good and learn less steeply.
Emicrania wrote: I feel like space Marines in general are an entry army but require a lot of skills to be played right. Every mistake is very, very costly.
Playing then competitively requires a lot of training and planning.
I feel like other army are more forgiving and easier to play good and learn less steeply.
BA should be well playable at a higher level since they have a large variety of units, more than any other chapter.
Another question: How about the inclusion of Armiger Helverins or a Knight to bolster a BA army?
I can imagine this.
How about the inclusion of two Armiger Helverins.
I played 3 ven Dreads with twin autocannons led by 2 Techmarines and this worked pretty well for me.
The Dreads are really hard to kill.
