Would not be too surprising if they did. The new stuff for the Sisters of Battle also came in two waves separated by a month or so. Can't recall the exact waiting time because I luckily didn't want anything from wave two, but those waiting for the castigator to be released had to wait a while after the codex released.
CMLR wrote: While I'm glad AoS will finally have pre-orders next week, I find it weir how they also paused Ork releases.
They referenced that Orktober came earlier this year. Would be a kick in the nuts if they actually waited until october to release the rest of ork stuff.
Honestly, there's not too much stuff missing for the Ork release going off the Beastsnagga book.
The dual kit Rig, the Dok, Kommandos, and the Great White Squig/Squigosaur Boss. That's a light week.
CMLR wrote: While I'm glad AoS will finally have pre-orders next week, I find it weir how they also paused Ork releases.
They referenced that Orktober came earlier this year. Would be a kick in the nuts if they actually waited until october to release the rest of ork stuff.
It's not that weird. Splitting releases for the same faction across more than one month means that:
a) Buyers have more time to clear their pile of shame (how many people will paint a full Combat Patrol or army box in 1-2 weeks?)
b) Anyone with a budget for hobby stuff is less likely to pick & choose between new releases
Although it would be nice to get all the orks released in one wave I'm really pleased they are finally releasing the stormcast book and the orruk book. Personally loved getting into AOS but paused doing any more until the battletome came out.
Talking about the last time GW made a truly multipose kit - probably 2016, with Genestealer Hybrid Acolytes. 5 pairs of legs, 5 torsos, any torso goes on any pair of legs. Enough weapons for a full squad of both loadouts, all regular weapons can go on any body, all special weapons included in the kit, I believe you even get two different copies of one. 21 heads for a squad of five. And all that just a few years ago, it's almost impressive how quickly GW degenerated to the point of new Snagga Boyz.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Talking about the last time GW made a truly multipose kit - probably 2016, with Genestealer Hybrid Acolytes. 5 pairs of legs, 5 torsos, any torso goes on any pair of legs. Enough weapons for a full squad of both loadouts, all regular weapons can go on any body, all special weapons included in the kit, I believe you even get two different copies of one. 21 heads for a squad of five. And all that just a few years ago, it's almost impressive how quickly GW degenerated to the point of new Snagga Boyz.
Ooof yeah, that kit is a good kit. You sure pay a pretty penny for it but it really is chockablock with bits. And GW probably sells hardly any of them because GSC have languished in the basement for so long.
Nope, speedboss so speedwaagh is all he can call on his own. But I think he would be a fantastic secondary boss, let a foot or squigboss call the waaagh so the bikerboss can advance and charge.
Hopefully with the killa klaw he can hit hard enough to wipe out an important target.
Speedboss is all that matters for a biker boss, and finally he has a built in invuln now. I would have been very pissed if GW made him a warboss and not a speedboss. Lots of good choices from the codex to call a waaaagh, but only the crappy wartrike to call the speedwaaagh. God job GW on this one.
I don't know whether this had been confirmed yet, but I figured it best to post it here now that I have a set.
The new Deff Koptaz, as we know, are pushfit. Sadly, despite perhaps hoping foolishly, the one with the custom blast thingy and big bomb only has that option. It cannot be given rokkits. It's solid cast with the gun attached.
Blackie wrote: Speedboss is all that matters for a biker boss, and finally he has a built in invuln now. I would have been very pissed if GW made him a warboss and not a speedboss. Lots of good choices from the codex to call a waaaagh, but only the crappy wartrike to call the speedwaaagh. God job GW on this one.
I suppose having another option is always great, but damn the speedwaaagh is hard to really utilize all elements of it.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I don't know whether this had been confirmed yet, but I figured it best to post it here now that I have a set.
The new Deff Koptaz, as we know, are pushfit. Sadly, despite perhaps hoping foolishly, the one with the custom blast thingy and big bomb only has that option. It cannot be given rokkits. It's solid cast with the gun attached.
Ugh, 13 years of waiting and it's a monobuild monopse kit. This is one whefre I really wouldn't mind if they did a dual kit and shoehorned in another unit type or weapon loadout "just to sell more kits".
Blackie wrote: Speedboss is all that matters for a biker boss, and finally he has a built in invuln now. I would have been very pissed if GW made him a warboss and not a speedboss. Lots of good choices from the codex to call a waaaagh, but only the crappy wartrike to call the speedwaaagh. God job GW on this one.
I suppose having another option is always great, but damn the speedwaaagh is hard to really utilize all elements of it.
IMHO it's the opposite. Speedwaaagh is the way to go as it's easy to get a lot of improvements across the army, while waaagh doesn't really add much. It's way easier to get tons of more shots and better AP than a significant amount of additional attacks in melee. Now we don't have to bring the wartrike as the mandatory tax to run a speedwaaagh. Another fast HQ that calls the waaagh wasn't needed, we already had the squig rider guy and the special character squig rider guy for that, plus tons of footslogging options.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I don't know whether this had been confirmed yet, but I figured it best to post it here now that I have a set.
The new Deff Koptaz, as we know, are pushfit. Sadly, despite perhaps hoping foolishly, the one with the custom blast thingy and big bomb only has that option. It cannot be given rokkits. It's solid cast with the gun attached.
Yeah, this was a disappointing find when I opened my box. Fortunately I already have three Black Reach choppers so I'm not really in the market to buy more past these, but I'm still iffy on the KMB and Big Bomb loadout.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I don't know whether this had been confirmed yet, but I figured it best to post it here now that I have a set.
The new Deff Koptaz, as we know, are pushfit. Sadly, despite perhaps hoping foolishly, the one with the custom blast thingy and big bomb only has that option. It cannot be given rokkits. It's solid cast with the gun attached.
Yeah, this was a disappointing find when I opened my box. Fortunately I already have three Black Reach choppers so I'm not really in the market to buy more past these, but I'm still iffy on the KMB and Big Bomb loadout.
Unless you somehow got it from a from a FLGs before it went up online, shouldn't you be able to tell they're monopose by simply looking at them in the store?
The Battlewagon is £60! And they just gave it a price hike!
Gotta charge those premium new kit prices, how else can they assert their dominance in the new release? I guess the BW at least beats out the Kill Rig in IRL money cost if not in-game cost efficiency lol.
The Battlewagon is £60! And they just gave it a price hike!
Gotta charge those premium new kit prices, how else can they assert their dominance in the new release? I guess the BW at least beats out the Kill Rig in IRL money cost if not in-game cost efficiency lol.
The Battlewagon is £60! And they just gave it a price hike!
Gotta charge those premium new kit prices, how else can they assert their dominance in the new release? I guess the BW at least beats out the Kill Rig in IRL money cost if not in-game cost efficiency lol.
Didn't they recently nerf it?
I believe just the harpoon/stikka ruling preventing it from immobilizing models like Flyers and how its timed between shooting and charging, but as far as points costs go and everything else, nothing much has changed. Though I do expect it to receive a price hike by the time the next Chapter Approved comes out.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: I imagine most Ork players are just gonna glue a Squig to the front of a Battlewagon.
I mean the unit isn’t even keyword squig just uncover the Howdah and put a weirdboy on top and done. I’m going to buy one Killrig but in any list I use 2 the magnetized battlewagon w weirdboy is going to be the other.
I'm not sure why any of those are surprising? There's a £70+ big ass model in most releases now (see monolith/silent king, belakor, birb fella for orruks), so the rig is on point there, if anything the squigasaur is a little lower than expected.
I'm not sure why any of those are surprising? There's a £70+ big ass model in most releases now (see monolith/silent king, belakor, birb fella for orruks), so the rig is on point there, if anything the squigasaur is a little lower than expected.
I'm not sure why any of those are surprising? There's a £70+ big ass model in most releases now (see monolith/silent king, belakor, birb fella for orruks), so the rig is on point there, if anything the squigasaur is a little lower than expected.
Squig boss is probably cheaper since it has a named and generic, and isn't aiming for the certerpice role, so is priced to sell multiples.
It's sad that people told me I was too negative on what GW would do when they were asking for a new boyz kit up to the point of some throwing about enough insults to get banned for it...
... and then GW went and made a box that proved me correct on price being the same as necron warriors, mono pose, removal of all additional bits, 'ard boyz, extra heads and lower model count.
But wait, there is more - not even I envisioned GW also cutting 7 shootas and 5 choppa/sluggas from the kit.
I hope everyone wishing for new boyz is happy now. Let's hope they keep the old kit around, I'm definitely ordering some to make sure I have enough of them for future conversions.
Dysartes wrote: Of the three, and given GW character pricing, the Mega-Boss looks almost reasonable, as he does seem fairly chunky.
Deffkoptas will be good as well. Before this plastic trio, three metal models were much more expensive. And buying from 2nd hand market, three plastic AOBR koptas in perfect conditions didn't and don't really cost less than what the deffkoptas kit will cost. It may even be cheaper than buying three 2nd had koptas actually.
Lord Damocles wrote: And so we reach the point where £12 for a plastic mono-pose no-options 'kopta is 'good'...
Considering that it's cheaper than the previous metal mono-pose model without options as well as the second hand price for mono-pose out-of-print pushfit models without options... yes?
Mono-pose also hardly matters on a unit like koptas, and players really were just asking for them to bring back AOBR koptas - which they did, but better.
Lord Damocles wrote: And so we reach the point where £12 for a plastic mono-pose no-options 'kopta is 'good'...
Yes, it is actually. Before the new kit you would have need to pay an higher price for a mono-pose no-option metal metal with awful weapon or pay the same price (if not more) for a mono-pose no-option OOP plastic model off ebay.
Jidmah wrote: I hope everyone wishing for new boyz is happy now. Let's hope they keep the old kit around, I'm definitely ordering some to make sure I have enough of them for future conversions.
Yeah I really hope everyone who said Orks 'needed' (or 'deserved') a new Boyz kit enjoy their mono-pose optionless crap.
Lord Damocles wrote: And so we reach the point where £12 for a plastic mono-pose no-options 'kopta is 'good'...
Yes, it is actually. Before the new kit you would have need to pay an higher price for a mono-pose no-option metal metal with awful weapon or pay the same price (if not more) for a mono-pose no-option OOP plastic model off ebay.
'It's cheaper than finding out of production models from a third party, or buying a model made in a much more expensive material' isn't the best line of argument to my mind.
Neither is 'well the decades-old model and starter set models had no options, so it's fine that the new kit has none either'.
Be thankful that the new Deffkopta entry didn't render the old starterbox versions invalid by insisting that 1 in ever 3 Deffkoptaz had to have the new weapon.
Lord Damocles wrote: And so we reach the point where £12 for a plastic mono-pose no-options 'kopta is 'good'...
Yes, it is actually. Before the new kit you would have need to pay an higher price for a mono-pose no-option metal metal with awful weapon or pay the same price (if not more) for a mono-pose no-option OOP plastic model off ebay.
'It's cheaper than finding out of production models from a third party, or buying a model made in a much more expensive material' isn't the best line of argument to my mind.
Neither is 'well the decades-old model and starter set models had no options, so it's fine that the new kit has none either'.
I mean.
Compared to other options it's still better.
Of course it would've been preferable to be like £20 for three, but at least it's not worse than it used to be.
Jidmah wrote: I hope everyone wishing for new boyz is happy now. Let's hope they keep the old kit around, I'm definitely ordering some to make sure I have enough of them for future conversions.
Yeah I really hope everyone who said Orks 'needed' (or 'deserved') a new Boyz kit enjoy their mono-pose optionless crap.
I am not by any means a GW apologist, but how much of this policy direction is it going to take for people who don't accept it to just walk away or just stop buying?
I think it's a gakky business strategy by them, but then I don't buy anything from GW.
'It's cheaper than finding out of production models from a third party, or buying a model made in a much more expensive material' isn't the best line of argument to my mind.
Neither is 'well the decades-old model and starter set models had no options, so it's fine that the new kit has none either'.
Maybe, but I think it is considering those were the only ways to field GW deffkoptas before this kit . Now we have a modern sculpt that doesn't invalidate the older one and doesn't even cost more. Win win for everyone I think.
Lord Damocles wrote: 'It's cheaper than finding out of production models from a third party, or buying a model made in a much more expensive material' isn't the best line of argument to my mind.
Neither is 'well the decades-old model and starter set models had no options, so it's fine that the new kit has none either'.
'We got exactly what we wanted for less money than expected' is a damn fine argument.
Do you ever look at the current Boyz kit and think "By Gork (or Mork)! There are just too many options there, what with the ability to give the whole squad Sluggas or Shooters, the choice to have or not have a heavy weapon, and that the Nob is the 11th model in the unit, meaning I can always build 10 boyz!"?
Well worry no more, because this Saturday the new Ork Boyz kit - Ezy-2-Build push-fit and 100% mono-pose, where you get 3 Shoota boyz, 5 Slugga Boyz, a mandatory heavy weapon, a Nob, and no way to change their equipment or posing or even heads! - is on its way.
Hooray for progress!!!
Plus the Warboss, the Deff Koptaz, and the regular Warboss with Power Klaw as a separate release.
The poses and detail are better but obviously it's been almost (?) twenty years so that's the minimum to expect. Yeah, I find the lack of options disturbing.
And in other news, the Big 'Ed Bossbunka is just gone from the GW site. Not a "Temporarily unavailable" or "No longer available online", but completely gone. Cannot be searched for. It's been pointed out that that might be a website error, but it's weird that it just vanished.
When you've only got one of each. Get the required 10 boxes to build a 30-boy Shoota unit, and suddenly those better poses won't look as good when there's 10 of each one.
Y'know, in MY DAY, we treated headaches by ramming a steel spike into your eye socket. You kids don't know how good you've got it nowadays when you just get thumped in the forehead.
I don't even collect Orks (past a box of Boyz I bought for killteam (it's a fantastic kit)) and I just want to leave my condolences for the new set. It's fething gak. And I say this as someone whose primary army is the metal sisters of battle!
Maybe the sculpts are better now but, for example, the old monopose plastics from second edition at least came with a coherent squad loadout
Do you ever look at the current Boyz kit and think "By Gork (or Mork)! There are just too many options there, what with the ability to give the whole squad Sluggas or Shooters, the choice to have or not have a heavy weapon, and that the Nob is the 11th model in the unit, meaning I can always build 10 boyz!"?
Well worry no more, because this Saturday the new Ork Boyz kit - Ezy-2-Build push-fit and 100% mono-pose, where you get 3 Shoota boyz, 5 Slugga Boyz, a mandatory heavy weapon, a Nob, and no way to change their equipment or posing or even heads! - is on its way.
Hooray for progress!!!
Plus the Warboss, the Deff Koptaz, and the regular Warboss with Power Klaw as a separate release.
Ugh, my worst fears for the boyz kit came true. I was hoping there were sprues that weren't included in the Combat Patrol box, but it seems like I was horribly wrong. Especially for an army that relies on redundancy for units to work, the new boyz kit is horrendous, especially for new players. They really need to rethink their approach for how they make new boxes, especially for core units like boyz.
Man, that new Boyz kit really is the worst thing to happen to Orks since the dreadful Gorkamorka plastics. Completely bizarre too, given the variety on offer in the new Kommandos kit.
Ugh, my worst fears for the boyz kit came true. I was hoping there were sprues that weren't included in the Combat Patrol box, but it seems like I was horribly wrong. Especially for an army that relies on redundancy for units to work, the new boyz kit is horrendous, especially for new players. They really need to rethink their approach for how they make new boxes, especially for core units like boyz.
Unfortunately for several armies, I think they have rethought their approach.
And that approach is 'start waving goodbye to hordes' and 'bump stats up.'
Ork armies already look weird to me (the remind me of old epic armies with lots and lots of vehicles, and a few stands of boys at the back); the chaos offshoots have already exiled cultists to 'but thou must marine first'; we'll see how gaunts and gants get treated in the tyranid codex and what happens to daemons; but I could easily see 'hyper-evolution' and 'warp is stronger because of the galaxy wide rift' being lined up as excuses for why both get a stat makeover that coincidently makes them less of a horde.
The good news is most current ork players probbaly have 50-100 boys anyway.. so this is just a box with like 10 new sculpts..
those old boy kits will be gold for a bit.
Eh, that sucks. Was hoping this was just a "starter set" sprue and they'd release something better for the final kit. But I guess not.
It sucks extra when you realise they've made far better kits for both DKOK and Kommandos. So they put in the effort to make a kit with lots of options for a special unit, but didn't put any effort into the kit which will be bought 5 or 10 times as frequently.
gungo wrote: The good news is most current ork players probbaly have 50-100 boys anyway.. so this is just a box with like 10 new sculpts..
those old boy kits will be gold for a bit.
That was partly my argument, the old kit was uninspiring and it's been around so long that existing players would have tons of them, and I doubt GW were shifting a lot of the old Boyz kits. So my ire is at the level of when GW brings out a new kit I don't particularly want and not at the level of replacing or squatting kits that I actually cared about.
I’ve literally just got the combat patrol box for Christmas. My plan is to just separate the boyz from that and put them in with my other older boyz units. Saw a WarCom article not to long ago where someone had done that and they don’t look too out of place
The fun part of this kit is that you need to buy two just to field the min squad of choppa boyz and even three to field the min squad of shoota boyz. Something like a hundred dollar just for being able to field a desired min squad of troops .
Blackie wrote: The fun part of this kit is that you need to buy two just to field the min squad of choppa boyz and even three to field the min squad of shoota boyz. Something like a hundred dollar just for being able to field a desired min squad of troops .
And the best part is that your shoota mob will consist of the same three boyz repeated over and over again
I've ordered three boxes of boyz for future conversions... you can't easily build those new boyz into another unit like you could with the old ones.
I'm really tempted to go back to that thread and dig up the names of all posters which told me how awesome new boyz were going to be and how I was wrong about everything.
Voss wrote: See, its at this kind of moment that the overall health and look of the game really ought to trump 'well, I got mine.'
Is that a pro- or anti- Nework stance? Because the new kit is bad because of its no options, the old kit is bad because it looks like a 20yo kit.
Seems like a lose-lose to me.
I was pro-Nework because I didn't like the old kit and hoped they did something similar to DKOK or Kommandos or Goliath or Escher. They didn't, which is a shame, I'm certainly not going to start an army with the Neworks now, but I may still buy a box of the Neworks to make a Kill Team or something like that at some point.
If the old Ork kit was so popular I would expect it to be sold out at GW or at the very least discounters, but it still seems to be in stock at most places. So people who still want the old one can still stock up for now.
Do we even know if they're stopping sales of the old Boyz? The old Boyz are still available from every region GW store. Given the new box doesn't even make a proper squad, I wonder if they intend to keep the old ones around.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Jidmah wrote: I'm really tempted to go back to that thread and dig up the names of all posters which told me how awesome new boyz were going to be...
Eh, if you're talking about my comments, I only ever said the old Orks are crap and there was a possibility that new Orks could be better based on other kits GW has done in recent times, not that I was divining the future that Neworks would definitely be a godsend. GW have proved they can do better kits than this, they literally just released some kits that are better than this, why they decided not to put any effort into the core of the Ork army *shrugs*, I dunno.
If they'd made the Neworks to the same level as the Kommandos, but just replacing the back packs with some extra options on the sprue, that would have been a great outcome IMO, but I know some people don't even like the Kommandos.
The only thing I can think is GW don't think Orks are popular and so didn't think it was worth putting in the same effort to the core kit, but it's weird they WOULD put that effort into the Kommandos.
If you want a pat on the back because you guessed that the Nework kit would be crap, umm, okay, have a cookie.
I do appreciate the fact that for the first time in history GW will release a separate plastic kit for a generic ork warboss though.
So far we still only have had the metal one from 3rd edition, a plastic one which was only included in the AOBR starter and never released separately, and the one that is about to be separately relesed which is currently available only by getting nobz along with it.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: If the old Ork kit was so popular I would expect it to be sold out at GW or at the very least discounters, but it still seems to be in stock at most places. So people who still want the old one can still stock up for now.
According to GW themselves, the tactical marines box is the best selling box ever, and it has never sold out. So your logic kind of doesn't apply. And yes, ork boyz have been sold out regularly when green tides were the top competitive choice for them.
Do we even know if they're stopping sales of the old Boyz? The old Boyz are still available from every region GW store. Given the new box doesn't even make a proper squad, I wonder if they intend to keep the old ones around.
According to store managers, the new kit will be replacing the old one completely once it is released (it isn't yet).
Spoiler:
Jidmah wrote: I'm really tempted to go back to that thread and dig up the names of all posters which told me how awesome new boyz were going to be...
Eh, if you're talking about my comments, I only ever said the old Orks are crap and there was a possibility that new Orks could be better based on other kits GW has done in recent times, not that I was divining the future that Neworks would definitely be a godsend. GW have proved they can do better kits than this, they literally just released some kits that are better than this, why they decided not to put any effort into the core of the Ork army *shrugs*, I dunno.
If they'd made the Neworks to the same level as the Kommandos, but just replacing the back packs with some extra options on the sprue, that would have been a great outcome IMO, but I know some people don't even like the Kommandos.
The only thing I can think is GW don't think Orks are popular and so didn't think it was worth putting in the same effort to the core kit, but it's weird they WOULD put that effort into the Kommandos.
If you want a pat on the back because you guessed that the Nework kit would be crap, umm, okay, have a cookie.
Except I provides tons of examples of kits that were exactly like the new boyz are, I even "guessed" the price correctly. And believe me, I'm not happy about being right. There is a difference between making educated guesses based on facts and unfounded dreaming.
As for the kommadoz kit - yes, they do make kits like that, but the also charge a ton for them. It's a fairly safe "guess" to assume that they will be clocking in at $60 per box, not something you can do for a kit that is supposed to go into combat patrol boxes and that new players have to buy multiples of to start.
Sometimes you just have to be content with what you have, otherwise you get your freely posable multi-part plastic kit that comes with all options and is interchangeable with every other ork kit replaced with one that costs more and is none of that. But yay, new scupts!
Yes the new Boyz kit are a disgrace, not even good for beginners because you can't even build a proper mob out of it. Honestly I don't understand what they were thinking.
Nice to finally have proper Warboss kits though, I've used my old Grukk plenty of times, but I never had a MA one - it is going to be fun to paint I think.
It does seem like an odd design decision to only enable part-squad load outs. I foresee 3rd parties stepping in quite quickly to provide physical and stl based conversion kits to fill the gaps.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: If the old Ork kit was so popular I would expect it to be sold out at GW or at the very least discounters, but it still seems to be in stock at most places. So people who still want the old one can still stock up for now.
According to GW themselves, the tactical marines box is the best selling box ever, and it has never sold out. So your logic kind of doesn't apply.
And yes, ork boyz have been sold out regularly when green tides were the top competitive choice for them.
Sorry, maybe some confusion there, I mean if the current Ork Boyz kit was popular it would be sold out now, because GW would supposedly not be making any more of them but old players who like them would be buying up big thinking they'll soon be gone. Whether they were sold out in years gone by is a different matter.
Like back when WHFB was killed and people started realising the models would be going, they disappeared very fast from online discounters and also the GW store.
So either the Boyz aren't super popular, or GW have a huge backlog and thus haven't sold out even though lots of people are buying them.
According to store managers, the new kit will be replacing the old one completely once it is released (it isn't yet).
Fair enough, I still find it odd that GW would leave us with a kit that can't even make a legal unit by such a long way. I know GW do odd things some times, but this is a new level.
As for the kommadoz kit - yes, they do make kits like that, but the also charge a ton for them. It's a fairly safe "guess" to assume that they will be clocking in at $60 per box, not something you can do for a kit that is supposed to go into combat patrol boxes and that new players have to buy multiples of to start.
I used Kommandos as an example because they're also 40k Orks, but even over on AoS there's Gutrippaz which are 10 monopose models but where the heads and weapons are at least interchangeable and the kit gives enough parts to give them either spears or hand weapons. Similar options on the Boyz kit would be a big upgrade.
Sometimes you just have to be content with what you have...
As I said, I didn't like the old Boyz kit so I don't really count this as a loss. I collected Orks back in the early 00's when that kit first came out, it was great for the time, but I can't really say I'm sad to see it go after all these years. My condolences if you needed the old kit to hang round longer to fill out your existing armies.
Fair enough, I still find it odd that GW would leave us with a kit that can't even make a legal unit by such a long way. I know GW do odd things some times, but this is a new level.
They removed possibility of mixed squads in new codex?
Flinty wrote: It does seem like an odd design decision to only enable part-squad load outs. I foresee 3rd parties stepping in quite quickly to provide physical and stl based conversion kits to fill the gaps.
Except the new Boyz are designed in such a way, that makes printing conversion parts extremly difficult, since each will have to be made to precisely fit one specific body, instead of having one generic bit be compatible with every single Boy body, like with the old ones, thus both reducing the usefulness of 3D printed parts, and making them much more difficult to design.
Flinty wrote: It does seem like an odd design decision to only enable part-squad load outs. I foresee 3rd parties stepping in quite quickly to provide physical and stl based conversion kits to fill the gaps.
At this point, I expect 3rd parties will just continue making whole models.
Really weird choices for this kit. Seems like it was designed without the game itself in mind at all? Which I guess is more and more the case. I've more than enough of the old boyz anyway and I also prefer them. Bad news for new ork players though.
Da Boss wrote: Really weird choices for this kit. Seems like it was designed without the game itself in mind at all? Which I guess is more and more the case. I've more than enough of the old boyz anyway and I also prefer them. Bad news for new ork players though.
Or it was designed to discourage using 3D printed parts and to encourage buying more boxes than before for a proper unit.
Yeah, it is not great. If this was marines, this would just be the easybuild variant and there would be a separate full kit. But they apparently don't want to invest such resources to orks. But given that, they definitely should have designed this kit differently. At absolute minimum, it should allow building five of either choppa or shoota boyz, so that you would at least get two sensibleish squads with two kits. Though ideally there should be enough arms to build ten of either with one kit as that would allow more variety without converting.
Flinty wrote: It does seem like an odd design decision to only enable part-squad load outs. I foresee 3rd parties stepping in quite quickly to provide physical and stl based conversion kits to fill the gaps.
Except the new Boyz are designed in such a way, that makes printing conversion parts extremly difficult, since each will have to be made to precisely fit one specific body, instead of having one generic bit be compatible with every single Boy body, like with the old ones, thus both reducing the usefulness of 3D printed parts, and making them much more difficult to design.
No doubt, be design.
Most of the boys still have the vest of the previous kit. Just make bits that require the removal of the whole arms and you’re back nearer to the older kit with arms that can be made compatible for more bodies.
Selling whole Orks would be another valid sales tactic, but if you make the arms cheap and simple enough I think you could do ok from it.
Crimson wrote: Yeah, it is not great. If this was marines, this would just be the easybuild variant and there would be a separate full kit. But they apparently don't want to invest such resources to orks. But given that, they definitely should have designed this kit differently. At absolute minimum, it should allow building five of either choppa or shoota boyz, so that you would at least get two sensibleish squads with two kits. Though ideally there should be enough arms to build ten of either with one kit as that would allow more variety without converting.
I think in my ideal world we would have gotten 2 Ork Boyz boxes, one for Slugga/Choppa Boyz and another for Shoota Boyz.
Then within each kit, have 10 unique monopose bodies but interchangeable arms/weapons/heads.
They could have sold each box for $50 each, which yeah is an increase from the current models but realistic compared to other kits GW has released recently.
Da Boss wrote: Really weird choices for this kit. Seems like it was designed without the game itself in mind at all? Which I guess is more and more the case. I've more than enough of the old boyz anyway and I also prefer them. Bad news for new ork players though.
Or it was designed to discourage using 3D printed parts and to encourage buying more boxes than before for a proper unit.
I don't think printing an entire Ork instead of just printing an Ork arm holding a gun/choppa/etc is a significant barrier. 10 cents of resin instead of 3?
Da Boss wrote: Really weird choices for this kit. Seems like it was designed without the game itself in mind at all? Which I guess is more and more the case. I've more than enough of the old boyz anyway and I also prefer them. Bad news for new ork players though.
Or it was designed to discourage using 3D printed parts and to encourage buying more boxes than before for a proper unit.
I don't think printing an entire Ork instead of just printing an Ork arm holding a gun/choppa/etc is a significant barrier. 10 cents of resin instead of 3?
Yeah, I mean... if that's what they were going for, they won't get what they wanted. But they might get something else.
Fair enough, I still find it odd that GW would leave us with a kit that can't even make a legal unit by such a long way. I know GW do odd things some times, but this is a new level.
They removed possibility of mixed squads in new codex?
Not sure if you're asking that sarcastically or you're genuinely inquiring? If it is the latter, yes, you still have the option to replace any boyz slugga and choppa with a shoota. But honestly how often will anyone do that especially with the shoota not being an assault weapon? I wouldn't even take a big shoota in a unit of boyz armed with sluggas and choppas. For me that's four (monopose) models wasted. Unless the new boyz will be multi-part, unlike the models in the combat patrol box, which I seriously doubt, because the image in the community post is the same image as the one for the combat patrol page on the main site.
I really like the new boyz over the old models (the proportions of the legs and the head are so much better) but this is just classic GW not giving a f*ck about what the consumers of their products want. For every step forward they take as a company it always seems like they take two steps back.
Sorry, maybe some confusion there, I mean if the current Ork Boyz kit was popular it would be sold out now, because GW would supposedly not be making any more of them but old players who like them would be buying up big thinking they'll soon be gone. Whether they were sold out in years gone by is a different matter.
The Current Ork boyz kit is incredibly popular because its so easy to kitbash into every other type of infantry ork. The old trick to quickly acquire a good sized army (Brand new) was to buy 1 kit of boyz and 2 boxes of lootas/burnas. You combined the 3 boxes to make 8 lootas, 8 burnas, 3 Tankbustas and then either 2 mekz and a Nob or you could equip the last 3 models as nobz or just more boyz, it was up to you.
So yeah, incredibly popular. But all of us "old players who like them" already have more then enough of them. I personally have 240ish Boyz, 30-40 Lootas, 20 Burnas, I just don't need more infantry atm.
The only kit I am really excited for right now thats infantry is the new Kommandos because the old kit was trash and too expensive.
Sorry, maybe some confusion there, I mean if the current Ork Boyz kit was popular it would be sold out now, because GW would supposedly not be making any more of them but old players who like them would be buying up big thinking they'll soon be gone. Whether they were sold out in years gone by is a different matter.
The Current Ork boyz kit is incredibly popular because its so easy to kitbash into every other type of infantry ork. The old trick to quickly acquire a good sized army (Brand new) was to buy 1 kit of boyz and 2 boxes of lootas/burnas. You combined the 3 boxes to make 8 lootas, 8 burnas, 3 Tankbustas and then either 2 mekz and a Nob or you could equip the last 3 models as nobz or just more boyz, it was up to you.
So yeah, incredibly popular. But all of us "old players who like them" already have more then enough of them. I personally have 240ish Boyz, 30-40 Lootas, 20 Burnas, I just don't need more infantry atm.
The only kit I am really excited for right now thats infantry is the new Kommandos because the old kit was trash and too expensive.
That's kind of my point. They're 20 year old models, and I'm sure in that 20 years they've sold tons of them. Even I have a few boxes even though I haven't touched my Ork army since probably 4th edition.
So are we at the point now where those models aren't attracting new players, and old players already have as many as they're likely ever going to buy?
AllSeeingSkink wrote: That's kind of my point. They're 20 year old models, and I'm sure in that 20 years they've sold tons of them. Even I have a few boxes even though I haven't touched my Ork army since probably 4th edition.
So are we at the point now where those models aren't attracting new players, and old players already have as many as they're likely ever going to buy?
That way of thinking is perfectly OK... as long as you replace them for something that can do the same, not... this.
Once you already have a box, two even, of these... how attractive are they? Would you think buying more is a good investment? Or even visually pleasing for an army?
If GW's plan consists on simply selling one or two of these to people who already play orks, that's a very myopic world view.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: That's kind of my point. They're 20 year old models, and I'm sure in that 20 years they've sold tons of them. Even I have a few boxes even though I haven't touched my Ork army since probably 4th edition.
So are we at the point now where those models aren't attracting new players, and old players already have as many as they're likely ever going to buy?
That way of thinking is perfectly OK... as long as you replace them for something that can do the same, not... this.
Once you already have a box, two even, of these... how attractive are these?
I don't disagree. I would like to have seen something a lot better than we got and I'm not inspired to reboot my Ork army with these models.
But we were heading down a weird discussion path that almost felt like blaming or at least whinging about people who wanted to see an upgrade to the tired old Ork kit.
After 20 years I'm not sad to see the old Ork kit gone, it's just disappointing GW didn't put some effort into making the new kit good. Like, does GW hate Ork players or something? It feels a bit like that.
That's kind of my point. They're 20 year old models, and I'm sure in that 20 years they've sold tons of them. Even I have a few boxes even though I haven't touched my Ork army since probably 4th edition.
So are we at the point now where those models aren't attracting new players, and old players already have as many as they're likely ever going to buy?
And how do the new ones attract "new" players? OHH! COOL! I have to buy 2 of these just to field a single MSU mob of 10 choppa boyz, or 3 to field a single unit of 10 shoota boyz.
Put that in perspective. I buy 3 current kits I can equip 3 nobz, and either 30 Boyz or 3 nobz, 27 boyz and 3 tankbustas. And the boyz are either choppa OR shoota, your choice, lots of bits left over to kustomize to your hearts content. So 3 boxes (Roughly $90) gets me 1 full sized mob of 30 boyz and extras.
New kit requires me to buy 2 boxes to field 10 Choppa boyz and 3 boxes to field 10 Shoota Boyz. And these new boxes are probably going to be $35 each or more, so you are talking $210 just to field 1 30 blob of Choppa boyz AND even worse, 10 boxes to field 30 shoota boyz, so you are talking $350 to field 30 shootaboyz. This kit is dumb as all hell.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: That's kind of my point. They're 20 year old models, and I'm sure in that 20 years they've sold tons of them. Even I have a few boxes even though I haven't touched my Ork army since probably 4th edition.
So are we at the point now where those models aren't attracting new players, and old players already have as many as they're likely ever going to buy?
Dude, that argument was garbage when you were still in dreamland about that fabulous boyz set which was never going to happen, and it is garbage now.
Almost every single ork infantry set is using the EXACT. SAME. MODELS. as the old ork boyz kit. If you didn't like the old set, you also don't like burnas, lootas, warbikers, trukks and battlewagons. Because they use the exact same torsos, legs and heads.
Or in other words, if you didn't like how old boyz look, your were never going to like the look of an ork army anyways.
Wishing for a new kit was a mistake, and everyone who was crying for it, including you, is as much blame for this horrible piece of plastic garbage that has replaced a perfectly fine set as GW is.
It was a dumb thing to do, and there is no justification for it. Especially not "well, only new players are going to be screwed over by it."
That's kind of my point. They're 20 year old models, and I'm sure in that 20 years they've sold tons of them. Even I have a few boxes even though I haven't touched my Ork army since probably 4th edition.
So are we at the point now where those models aren't attracting new players, and old players already have as many as they're likely ever going to buy?
And how do the new ones attract "new" players? OHH! COOL! I have to buy 2 of these just to field a single MSU mob of 10 choppa boyz, or 3 to field a single unit of 10 shoota boyz.
Put that in perspective. I buy 3 current kits I can equip 3 nobz, and either 30 Boyz or 3 nobz, 27 boyz and 3 tankbustas. And the boyz are either choppa OR shoota, your choice, lots of bits left over to kustomize to your hearts content. So 3 boxes (Roughly $90) gets me 1 full sized mob of 30 boyz and extras.
New kit requires me to buy 2 boxes to field 10 Choppa boyz and 3 boxes to field 10 Shoota Boyz. And these new boxes are probably going to be $35 each or more, so you are talking $210 just to field 1 30 blob of Choppa boyz AND even worse, 10 boxes to field 30 shoota boyz, so you are talking $350 to field 30 shootaboyz. This kit is dumb as all hell.
The pessimist in me thinks they expect new players to buy a few boxes of Neworks and never paint them or play with them. Isn't that where most of GW's money comes from?
I dunno what GW's plan is, unless they're hiding something it just seems like a short sighted attempt to temporarily inject some sales into the Orks.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Jidmah wrote: Wishing for a new kit was a mistake, and everyone who was crying for it...
I'm not the one crying, you are. As I've said, I found the old Boyz uninspiring, I find the new Boyz uninspiring, my attitude towards Ork Boyz remains apathetic.
...including you, is as much blame for this horrible piece of plastic garbage that has replaced a perfectly fine set as GW is.
Umm, yeah, I'm pretty sure GW had made their decision before I ever made a post on the topic. But if it makes you feel better to blame the people who had no input into the decisions or designs, go for it I guess?
I maintain that GW could have, based on their other kits, done a decent job with Neworks. They didn't, I assume it's because they hate you. Like, you, specifically you, Jidmah.
But anyway, if you genuinely think a few random posters on the interwebs pushed GW to bring out the new kit, you should be relieved, because the backlash against the new kit is way noisier than that ever was, so surely GW will continue to listen.
Albertorius wrote: That way of thinking is perfectly OK... as long as you replace them for something that can do the same, not... this.
Once you already have a box, two even, of these... how attractive are they? Would you think buying more is a good investment? Or even visually pleasing for an army?
If GW's plan consists on simply selling one or two of these to people who already play orks, that's a very myopic world view.
People were wishing for a modern kit. This is how modern kits have looked like for a while.
It was absolutely clear that it would either be a slightly more expensive kit with mono-pose models and no options whatsoever, or that it would double in price if it were even remotely as modular as the previous one.
There are plenty of “modern” kits that are far less limited in terms of variety of poses and options. The new Kommandos, for one. Personally I thought the old kit was fine but suggesting the shitshow of the new Boyz kit is somehow the fault of people who would have liked to see an update, rather than GW phoning in an absolutely piss-poor effort is a bit daft I reckon.
Albertorius wrote: That way of thinking is perfectly OK... as long as you replace them for something that can do the same, not... this.
Once you already have a box, two even, of these... how attractive are they? Would you think buying more is a good investment? Or even visually pleasing for an army?
If GW's plan consists on simply selling one or two of these to people who already play orks, that's a very myopic world view.
People were wishing for a modern kit. This is how modern kits have looked like for a while.
It was absolutely clear that it would either be a slightly more expensive kit with mono-pose models and no options whatsoever, or that it would double in price if it were even remotely as modular as the previous one.
There were even a lot of "I don't care, old sculpts are bad and I won't start an army unless they get new boyz because they deserve it", but I'm waiting eagerly now to see all these new ork players building out of these boyz kits.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nazrak wrote: There are plenty of “modern” kits that are far less limited in terms of variety of poses and options. The new Kommandos, for one. Personally I thought the old kit was fine but suggesting the shitshow of the new Boyz kit is somehow the fault of people who would have liked to see an update, rather than GW phoning in an absolutely piss-poor effort is a bit daft I reckon.
They were 100% assuredly going to price people out of boyz units if it was anywhere near as good as people expected it to be (and are anyway). It's not just that the box is bad, it could be the best core infantry box in existence but it's widely acknowledged boyz will need to dip a point or two and who wants to buy 10 dudes for £31+ that are worth sub 80 points.
People wanting new Boyz sculpts and being disappointed in them does not have to be mutually exclusive.
I know some people think we should make literal blood sacrifices and pray in thanks GW's benevolent offerings whenever they release something, but come on.
Its been so long since I've bought boyz I had to check. Currently in the US its $36 for a boyz kit which includes 11 models (10 boyz and a nob)
Assuming this goes up to at a minimum $50 like the Tau firewarriors or $60 like the relatively brand new Sisters of Battle squad, that means atm to get 33 models, or more than enough to equip a single full Mob you need $108.
To equip a full mob of Choppa boyz would take 6 full boxes, so you are talking $300-360, if you wanted shoota boyz (why?) you need 10 kits (3 in every box) so you are talking anywhere from $500 to $600 for a single full Troops choice of your choosing.
Not only is this unrealistic, its mentally deficient, if anything this new kit is going to HURT Orkz, no new player is going to want to get into the hobby when you have to spend more than $1,000 just to have 3 full troops choices. Not to mention, atm Orkz are 9ppm. Nobody is going to want to spend that much for what amounts to at most 810pts, Especially since boyz are garbage right now.
The only feasible reason for this level of short bus from GW is that this is just one last effort to crush Ork horde armies. "You can't play Horde if you can't afford the models"
SemperMortis wrote: Its been so long since I've bought boyz I had to check. Currently in the US its $36 for a boyz kit which includes 11 models (10 boyz and a nob)
Assuming this goes up to at a minimum $50 like the Tau firewarriors or $60 like the relatively brand new Sisters of Battle squad, that means atm to get 33 models, or more than enough to equip a single full Mob you need $108.
To equip a full mob of Choppa boyz would take 6 full boxes, so you are talking $300-360, if you wanted shoota boyz (why?) you need 10 kits (3 in every box) so you are talking anywhere from $500 to $600 for a single full Troops choice of your choosing.
Not only is this unrealistic, its mentally deficient, if anything this new kit is going to HURT Orkz, no new player is going to want to get into the hobby when you have to spend more than $1,000 just to have 3 full troops choices. Not to mention, atm Orkz are 9ppm. Nobody is going to want to spend that much for what amounts to at most 810pts, Especially since boyz are garbage right now.
The only feasible reason for this level of short bus from GW is that this is just one last effort to crush Ork horde armies. "You can't play Horde if you can't afford the models"
The one thing I'll say to that is that, at least where I play, most people would be 100% fine with someone saying "All my Boys are Choppas," even if there's a mix of models. Likewise for Shootas.
So, to be fully WYSIWYG without converting, it's that pricy. To just get bodies on the table to play with friends, it ain't so bad.
JNAProductions wrote: The one thing I'll say to that is that, at least where I play, most people would be 100% fine with someone saying "All my Boys are Choppas," even if there's a mix of models. Likewise for Shootas.
So, to be fully WYSIWYG without converting, it's that pricy. To just get bodies on the table to play with friends, it ain't so bad.
Still bad, though.
True, in friendly games this isn't a problem, but when you start playing tournaments the judges and players don't like it as much. Not to mention, for a company which once branded itself "We are a Model company not a game company" this is just ridiculous. Orkz are literally the opposite of organized as far as uniform etc, making them basically 1 of 3-5 options as far as sculpt is just a bit dumb.
JNAProductions wrote: The one thing I'll say to that is that, at least where I play, most people would be 100% fine with someone saying "All my Boys are Choppas," even if there's a mix of models. Likewise for Shootas.
So, to be fully WYSIWYG without converting, it's that pricy. To just get bodies on the table to play with friends, it ain't so bad.
Still bad, though.
True, in friendly games this isn't a problem, but when you start playing tournaments the judges and players don't like it as much. Not to mention, for a company which once branded itself "We are a Model company not a game company" this is just ridiculous. Orkz are literally the opposite of organized as far as uniform etc, making them basically 1 of 3-5 options as far as sculpt is just a bit dumb.
Well, they are a model company not a game company, as evidenced by this box being absolutely bloody awful in game terms.
JNAProductions wrote: The one thing I'll say to that is that, at least where I play, most people would be 100% fine with someone saying "All my Boys are Choppas," even if there's a mix of models. Likewise for Shootas.
So, to be fully WYSIWYG without converting, it's that pricy. To just get bodies on the table to play with friends, it ain't so bad.
Still bad, though.
True, in friendly games this isn't a problem, but when you start playing tournaments the judges and players don't like it as much. Not to mention, for a company which once branded itself "We are a Model company not a game company" this is just ridiculous. Orkz are literally the opposite of organized as far as uniform etc, making them basically 1 of 3-5 options as far as sculpt is just a bit dumb.
Well, they are a model company not a game company, as evidenced by this box being absolutely bloody awful in game terms.
Technically its bloody awful in game terms and modelling terms. GW is a beneficiary of 1st in, best dressed concept, their actual service is kind of terrible
May want to add that it's your opinion the game and models are awful. I quite enjoy the new models having been an ork players for 10+ years now. They're decent sculpts that don't uproot the entire 40k ork look while bringing something new. We all know it's a cash grab factually but don't knock what many of us enjoy just because you're getting burnt out by it. Thank you!
WarlordRob117 wrote: May want to add that it's your opinion the game and models are awful. I quite enjoy the new models having been an ork players for 10+ years now. They're decent sculpts that don't uproot the entire 40k ork look while bringing something new. We all know it's a cash grab factually but don't knock what many of us enjoy just because you're getting burnt out by it. Thank you!
I think the new sculpts look good and aesthetically are a big upgrade from the old ones in that regard. It's just in the context of being Ork Boyz the lack of options is terrible, as you're always going to want multiple boxes unless you're just building a kill team.
Even the Gutrippaz models that are also monopose at least have swappable heads and weapons, and are likely the same price as the new Boyz will be.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Arbitrator wrote: People wanting new Boyz sculpts and being disappointed in them does not have to be mutually exclusive.
That's kind of my point. They're 20 year old models, and I'm sure in that 20 years they've sold tons of them. Even I have a few boxes even though I haven't touched my Ork army since probably 4th edition.
So are we at the point now where those models aren't attracting new players, and old players already have as many as they're likely ever going to buy?
I think it's the opposite. Kits like this don't attract new players. Orks are not SM which are good with just one box, they typically seek different numbers. And considering how those boyz are kitted a new player would just have to buy 2 or 3 of that kit just to field min squad of troops. For 100-150 dollars, ouch. Can't even imagine the moment large mobs of boyz become popular again, how painful (monopose and utterly expensive guys) it will be to field a WYSIWYGGW ork army?
On the other hand with the older kit you might do boyz with all the combinations of weapons you wanted, and were a solid base to kitbash kommandos, burnaboyz, tankbustas or lootas. Same with the current nobz kit, IMHO the very best kit in the ork catalogue: it doesn't matter if nobz don't perform on the table, with that kit you get much better looking nobz that the one included in boyz kit (including the nob from the latest boyz kit) and the bodies and bitz are a solid base to kitbash flash gitz, banner nob, big mek, painboy, weirdboy and most named characters, letting you save a lot of money and giving you a unique army.
A huge portion of the ork player base started that faction due to the converting/customizing possibilities. You remove that and you remove the interest from some possible new players, while I'm not sure it will attract the interest from other kind of players/hobbists in the meantime.
The boyz kit might be very old, IMHO it's still much better than the majority of the kits that were released in 8th and 9th, and I'm not talking about orks but 40k in general.
That's kind of my point. They're 20 year old models, and I'm sure in that 20 years they've sold tons of them. Even I have a few boxes even though I haven't touched my Ork army since probably 4th edition.
So are we at the point now where those models aren't attracting new players, and old players already have as many as they're likely ever going to buy?
I think it's the opposite. Kits like this don't attract new players. Orks are not SM which are good with just one box, they typically seek different numbers. And considering how those boyz are kitted a new player would just have to buy 2 or 3 of that kit just to field min squad of troops. For 100-150 dollars, ouch. Can't even imagine the moment large mobs of boyz become popular again, how painful (monopose and utterly expensive guys) it will be to field a WYSIWYGGW ork army?
On the other hand with the older kit you might do boyz with all the combinations of weapons you wanted, and were a solid base to kitbash kommandos, burnaboyz, tankbustas or lootas. Same with the current nobz kit, IMHO the very best kit in the ork catalogue: it doesn't matter if nobz don't perform on the table, with that kit you get much better looking nobz that the one included in boyz kit (including the nob from the latest boyz kit) and the bodies and bitz are a solid base to kitbash flash gitz, banner nob, big mek, painboy, weirdboy and most named characters, letting you save a lot of money and giving you a unique army.
A huge portion of the ork player base started that faction due to the converting/customizing possibilities. You remove that and you remove the interest from some possible new players, while I'm not sure it will attract the interest from other kind of players/hobbists in the meantime.
The boyz kit might be very old, IMHO it's still much better than the majority of the kits that were released in 8th and 9th, and I'm not talking about orks but 40k in general.
Do you think most new players think it through in that much detail though?
Maybe they do, though my thought was more that a new player would just go "ooo, that looks cool" and not think so much about the fact they can kitbash this kit with that kit or that the kit doesn't make a good unit on the tabletop.
A lot of people aren't even players, they're just collectors, or only play once in a blue moon. That type of person would be more inclined to buy the new box over the old box.
I might even buy a box or two to build a kill team, which is a box or two more than I would have bought of the old models.
so most new players are collectors and don't play therefore the box is not that bad because those "players" don't care if they can play with the models
I know what you want to say, but if the discussion is about "new players" and not new collectors/painters (who will by only a single box anyway is if you don't play there is no reason to buy more) it does not matter if the box is better for those that don't play as it is worse for new players
PS: and if you need 2 boxes to get a single Kill Team from it, tells you a lot how bad the content of that box is
kodos wrote: so most new players are collectors and don't play therefore the box is not that bad because those "players" don't care if they can play with the models
I know what you want to say, but if the discussion is about "new players" and not new collectors/painters (who will by only a single box anyway is if you don't play there is no reason to buy more) it does not matter if the box is better for those that don't play as it is worse for new players
I guess I was more talking about "new sales" more than players/collectors.
I also don't recall saying it's "not that bad", I think it's pretty awful, I'm mostly just trying to figure out wtfGW were thinking when they thought releasing a box that not only has no options but doesn't even have interchangeability. I can only assume they thought this would work as a quick sales injection versus just having the old Boyz hanging around.
The only good thing about this box, IMO, is they do look nicer than the previous Ork Boyz, which is partly why I'm considering them to make a kill team.
PS: and if you need 2 boxes to get a single Kill Team from it, tells you a lot how bad the content of that box is
I'll be honest, I haven't even looked at what constitutes an Ork kill team team, I just assume it's 1 to 2 boxes the same way as a DKOK kill team is 1 to 2 boxes.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: "It's a good box as long as you never try to use it for the game it's made for"
Games Workshop don't make models for games, they make games for models
Do you think most new players think it through in that much detail though?
Maybe they do, though my thought was more that a new player would just go "ooo, that looks cool" and not think so much about the fact they can kitbash this kit with that kit or that the kit doesn't make a good unit on the tabletop.
Yes, absolutely. We're not in 1998 anymore, the year I started the hobby. Right now there are tons of places where to find info, reviews and suggestions. I think very few people buy stuff at random when they start the hobby, and none would do if already familiar with the hobby.
I believe prices for horde oriented armies and unfriendly kits for gamers like the new ork boyz one are extremely gatekeeping for new players, both newbies and veterans, as people who may want to start orks might already be in the hobby, lots of players have multiple armies.
My point is people who just paint and collect could definitely like the new kit but unlike the older one they won't buy it in droves. Pretty much anyone I know collecting orks has bought 10+ of the older boyz kit, some even 20-30, but what about this thing?
People who are more interested in the game and think about starting orks will certainly search for information before buying stuff and may find that new ork kit isn't that appealing. If they're still interested in getting orks they'll probably buy something else, their roster is pretty wide and the codex allows for multiple builds.
Do you think most new players think it through in that much detail though?
Maybe they do, though my thought was more that a new player would just go "ooo, that looks cool" and not think so much about the fact they can kitbash this kit with that kit or that the kit doesn't make a good unit on the tabletop.
Yes, absolutely. We're not in 1998 anymore, the year I started the hobby. Right now there are tons of places where to find info, reviews and suggestions. I think very few people buy stuff at random when they start the hobby, and none would do if already familiar with the hobby.
Yeah, maybe, I dunno if I agree with you though. I think for a lot of folks aesthetics play into the decision to start a new army as much or more than the practicality of kitbashing or inconvenience of lack of poses down the track.
And I still think a large portion of the GW sales base either just buy a few kits from an army, and either never paint them, never game with them, and never amass a large army of them.
Blackie wrote: My point is people who just paint and collect could definitely like the new kit but unlike the older one they won't buy it in droves. Pretty much anyone I know collecting orks has bought 10+ of the older boyz kit, some even 20-30, but what about this thing?
Sure, but do they make up a large portion of sales *right now*. It's a 20yo kit, I'm sure it's sold many many copies in that 20 years, but how many are being shifted *now* is what plays into the decision GW made to replace it.
Rules change more often than the models on the majority of cases, so this looks like a box aimed at just play and build exactly as is displayed on the box... maybe something in the future of Ork rules is coming.
NAVARRO wrote: Rules change more often than the models on the majority of cases, so this looks like a box aimed at just play and build exactly as is displayed on the box... maybe something in the future of Ork rules is coming.
If this unit contains 10 or fever models:
○ Up to 3 Ork Boyz can each equip a Shoota.
○ Up to 5 Ork Boyz can each equip a Slugga and Choppa.
○ Up to 1 Ork Boy can each have their Big Shoota replaced with 1 Rokkit Launcha.
If this unit contains 11 or more models:
○ Up to 6 Ork Boyz can each equip a Shoota.
○ Up to 10 Ork Boyz can each equip a Slugga and Choppa.
○ Up to 2 Ork Boy can each have their Big Shoota replaced with 1 Rokkit Launcha.
Do you think most new players think it through in that much detail though?
Maybe they do, though my thought was more that a new player would just go "ooo, that looks cool" and not think so much about the fact they can kitbash this kit with that kit or that the kit doesn't make a good unit on the tabletop.
Yes, absolutely. We're not in 1998 anymore, the year I started the hobby. Right now there are tons of places where to find info, reviews and suggestions. I think very few people buy stuff at random when they start the hobby, and none would do if already familiar with the hobby.
Yeah, maybe, I dunno if I agree with you though. I think for a lot of folks aesthetics play into the decision to start a new army as much or more than the practicality of kitbashing or inconvenience of lack of poses down the track.
And I still think a large portion of the GW sales base either just buy a few kits from an army, and either never paint them, never game with them, and never amass a large army of them.
Blackie wrote: My point is people who just paint and collect could definitely like the new kit but unlike the older one they won't buy it in droves. Pretty much anyone I know collecting orks has bought 10+ of the older boyz kit, some even 20-30, but what about this thing?
Sure, but do they make up a large portion of sales *right now*. It's a 20yo kit, I'm sure it's sold many many copies in that 20 years, but how many are being shifted *now* is what plays into the decision GW made to replace it.
I'm already that does factor in, however they produced a product that 20 year old veterans won't want more than 1 of and neither will new players, so as far as I can see there is no logic.
Dudeface wrote: I'm already that does factor in, however they produced a product that 20 year old veterans won't want more than 1 of and neither will new players, so as far as I can see there is no logic.
I don't disagree that it's a weird move, I'm just trying to figure out the logic Maybe GW don't think the whales buying 10+ kits will make up most of their Boyz sales anyway. Maybe they aren't trying to sell the idea of a horde but rather want to draw people into the idea of buying special units, vehicles, etc. They're surely going to sell some of the nework kits, maybe 1 or 2 each to existing players, maybe 1 or 2 to new players/collectors, maybe 1 or 2 to people who want to do an Ork Kill Team, but it's far from ideal.
I certainly would have preferred them to actually put some effort into this kit to have options. I stated somewhere on a previous page my dream for Boyz would be to separate Shoota Boyz and Choppa Boyz into 2 separate kits so that it adds to the variety. At the very least interchangeable heads and weapons would have made a big difference.
I know Jidmah will start sobbing and crying out that it was inevitable, but GW have literally just released Gutrippaz which are better than this, Kommandos which are way better than this, DKOK which are way better than this, and within only the past 4 or so years they've made kits like the Rockgut Trolls and Necromunda Goliath models, so they certainly have the capability, they just didn't put in the effort.
Sure, but do they make up a large portion of sales *right now*. It's a 20yo kit, I'm sure it's sold many many copies in that 20 years, but how many are being shifted *now* is what plays into the decision GW made to replace it.
A bad kit won't sell much right now, even if the unit had good rules. The 20yo kit sold pretty well until months ago, when hordes of boyz were still good rules-wise. I'm not sure that a greentide revamp will make this new kit sell a lot of copies considering how bad it is.
Dudeface wrote: I'm already that does factor in, however they produced a product that 20 year old veterans won't want more than 1 of and neither will new players, so as far as I can see there is no logic.
I don't disagree that it's a weird move, I'm just trying to figure out the logic Maybe GW don't think the whales buying 10+ kits will make up most of their Boyz sales anyway. Maybe they aren't trying to sell the idea of a horde but rather want to draw people into the idea of buying special units, vehicles, etc. They're surely going to sell some of the nework kits, maybe 1 or 2 each to existing players, maybe 1 or 2 to new players/collectors, maybe 1 or 2 to people who want to do an Ork Kill Team, but it's far from ideal.
I certainly would have preferred them to actually put some effort into this kit to have options. I stated somewhere on a previous page my dream for Boyz would be to separate Shoota Boyz and Choppa Boyz into 2 separate kits so that it adds to the variety. At the very least interchangeable heads and weapons would have made a big difference.
I know Jidmah will start sobbing and crying out that it was inevitable, but GW have literally just released Gutrippaz which are better than this, Kommandos which are way better than this, DKOK which are way better than this, and within only the past 4 or so years they've made kits like the Rockgut Trolls and Necromunda Goliath models, so they certainly have the capability, they just didn't put in the effort.
I agreed wholeheartedly with Jidmah and I did back when people were clamouring for new boyz. The same will happen for guard and nids, get new core horde infantry, lose options and pay 20%+ extra for the pleasure. We're in a state where wanting new core units is bad on a wishlist a lot of the time.
Dudeface wrote: The same will happen for guard and nids, get new core horde infantry, lose options and pay 20%+ extra for the pleasure.
Well we already have the DKOK and they're a big step up over the old Cadians. Remains to be seen if they expand that with heavy weapons and additional command options. But at this point the Cadian models are terrible and cost $45 for 10, I sure won't be buying any more of the current Cadians even though I have a small Cadian force.
Tyranids, the gaunts are already pretty monoposed. Tyranids do have the benefit of being an exoskeleton type species, so the models have the ball and socket joints that typically allow some level of poseability. As someone who owns a Tyranid army, I don't see me buying any more gaunts so if GW want to take another stab at them, it's no skin off my back.
It's probably just a matter of perspective, you guys seem to think things are great as they are and don't want change, I think they're pretty mediocre as they are. These 20 year old core kits whether they be Orks, Cadians or Termagants don't inspire me next to all the other things I could waste my time painting, and so I don't mind GW rolling the dice on trying to improve them. As much as the nework kits suck, I'm gonna buy more of them than I will the old Ork kit.
If you really love the old Orks so much, they're still in stock on every GW regional store and many independent stores, stock up while you can I guess.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
stahly wrote: Lots of strong feelings about the new Boyz kit.
Why don't you tell Games Workhop directly what kind of models you want and what not?
Please be polite and constructive though, that always improves the chances that someone will listen.
That's a good idea. There's also threads over on reddit that have far more contributors than this thread and they're mostly negative comments, so hopefully GW are listening.
A lot of people over there are still under the belief that the old Boyz are sticking around, supposedly because they only just got reboxed, so instead of GW letting them die out like so many other things they actively put some effort into them. I'm not as convinced, the instances of GW selling two versions of the same kit are very rare.
It seems the net result of their big survey this year was "You seem to love the yearly points updates, so now we're going to double how much you pay for these each year!", I'm not sure we want them listening to us anymore; it just makes things worse.
It seems the net result of their big survey this year was "You seem to love the yearly points updates, so now we're going to double how much you pay for these each year!", I'm not sure we want them listening to us anymore; it just makes things worse.
But primaris marines have figured out swords now! The standard issue marine swords! Think of the progress! Soon they'll be able to stand inside transports that move on the ground. By 12th edition they'll work out drop pods.
Think of all the rules bloat that overwhelming change will require- these books are obviously absolutely necessary. /s
It seems the net result of their big survey this year was "You seem to love the yearly points updates, so now we're going to double how much you pay for these each year!", I'm not sure we want them listening to us anymore; it just makes things worse.
this is the main problem since end of 7th Edition, GW does listen to the community, but the conclusions they make from what you tell them is very often the opposite of what people wanted (remember, we got 8th and 9th because people told them that the entry barrier is too high and there is too much rules bloat)
Voss wrote: By 12th edition they'll work out drop pods.
Why would they do that? Repulsors are already capable of orbital drops.
And why'd they do that? So were drop pods and land raiders.
Presumably GW still wants to sell those kits, and currently they aren't usable with these new characters or their swords..
You just wait and see how much you love the new Boyz kit when in the next Ork codex you read: "Each Boyz mob consist of 5 Boyz equipped with a Slugga and a Choppa, 3 Boyz equipped with a Shoota, one Boy equipped with a Big Shoota and one Boss Nob equipped with a Slugga and a Choppa. You may add up to 5 Boyz equipped with a Slugga and a Choppa and up to 3 Boyz equipped with a Shoota..."
SemperMortis wrote: Its been so long since I've bought boyz I had to check. Currently in the US its $36 for a boyz kit which includes 11 models (10 boyz and a nob)
Assuming this goes up to at a minimum $50 like the Tau firewarriors or $60 like the relatively brand new Sisters of Battle squad, that means atm to get 33 models, or more than enough to equip a single full Mob you need $108.
To equip a full mob of Choppa boyz would take 6 full boxes, so you are talking $300-360, if you wanted shoota boyz (why?) you need 10 kits (3 in every box) so you are talking anywhere from $500 to $600 for a single full Troops choice of your choosing.
Not only is this unrealistic, its mentally deficient, if anything this new kit is going to HURT Orkz, no new player is going to want to get into the hobby when you have to spend more than $1,000 just to have 3 full troops choices. Not to mention, atm Orkz are 9ppm. Nobody is going to want to spend that much for what amounts to at most 810pts, Especially since boyz are garbage right now.
The only feasible reason for this level of short bus from GW is that this is just one last effort to crush Ork horde armies. "You can't play Horde if you can't afford the models"
I think it has already been leaked that the new kit will be $45.
Oguhmek wrote: You just wait and see how much you love the new Boyz kit when in the next Ork codex you read: "Each Boyz mob consist of 5 Boyz equipped with a Slugga and a Choppa, 3 Boyz equipped with a Shoota, one Boy equipped with a Big Shoota and one Boss Nob equipped with a Slugga and a Choppa. You may add up to 5 Boyz equipped with a Slugga and a Choppa and up to 3 Boyz equipped with a Shoota..."
Oguhmek wrote: You just wait and see how much you love the new Boyz kit when in the next Ork codex you read: "Each Boyz mob consist of 5 Boyz equipped with a Slugga and a Choppa, 3 Boyz equipped with a Shoota, one Boy equipped with a Big Shoota and one Boss Nob equipped with a Slugga and a Choppa. You may add up to 5 Boyz equipped with a Slugga and a Choppa and up to 3 Boyz equipped with a Shoota..."
Tbf, I don’t think I’ve seen anyone claiming the new Boyz kit is *good*. That it sucks is about as close as this forum gets to a consensus.
I think it has already been leaked that the new kit will be $45.
Much appreciated Jid I missed that one. So only a 25% increase in price for fewer models, fewer options and no organic way to field 1 type of boyz MSU.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: Sure, but do they make up a large portion of sales *right now*. It's a 20yo kit, I'm sure it's sold many many copies in that 20 years, but how many are being shifted *now* is what plays into the decision GW made to replace it.
Skink, veteran ork players have all the boyz they will likely ever need. New players don't. The problem is that this kit is bad to start an ork army with which means new ork players are a bit screwed. Going by what Jid said in regards to price ($45) it will cost you $90 to field 1 MSU mob of 10 choppa boyz. if you want to do shoota boyz it will cost you $135 for 1 MSU mob. If you want to field a small green tide of 90 Shoota boyz....well GG to your bank account. $1200+ for 90 shoota boyz Definitely affordable for new players right?
I'll wager this will see a small bump in sales at first and then a plunge as players realize how bad this is and stay away from it. Sadly, this may be bad for the ork army in general long term as far as new players. And then GW will use this as an excuse to ignore us for another decade.
It's probably just a matter of perspective, you guys seem to think things are great as they are and don't want change, I think they're pretty mediocre as they are. These 20 year old core kits whether they be Orks, Cadians or Termagants don't inspire me next to all the other things I could waste my time painting, and so I don't mind GW rolling the dice on trying to improve them. As much as the nework kits suck, I'm gonna buy more of them than I will the old Ork kit.
If you really love the old Orks so much, they're still in stock on every GW regional store and many independent stores, stock up while you can I guess.
Things aren't "Great", but they aren't bad. This new ork kit is in fact "bad". Old players might buy a box or two to give their current mobz a bit of flavor but thats about it. New players will buy maybe 1-3 before saying F*** this and going to EBay to buy the old kits for 1/2 the price. And us older players don't need to "stock up" because we have more then enough as is I'm currently waiting for the new Kommando kit to go on sale because I had to kustom build mine and I want the real models, I just didn't want to spend $50+ for 5 failcast kommandos so this new kit is actually exciting...and it has options!
I like the new Snakebites, and the Godzilla Squigs.
The New Boi's and the lack of carrying over the old school fun and random-ness of the Orks... not so much.
Unfortunately, the new Snakebites have been neutered, and are now the FOTM Orks, and the fart in the wind ones with head swaps were an offspring of another project, such as a board game, or an expansion set. If you are paying more then 25- 30 bucks for a box of these new guys, then I really can't help you. Those new Boi's are really lacking.
To me, the new Commandos are a far cry from your new Boi kits. They do not even look like they belong together, let alone in the same mobs. Along with that-
I think the new Codex should be pulled, Edited, and screened for both content, and then yet again- for Proofreading. To say that this one was A Half Hearted Effort is being kind.
110% stocked up on 20+ mobs. In addition to 2d through 9th Edition mobs. Could use a few more tanks, buggies, truks, and the home made vehicles from the White Dwarf. Which is my next Project...
SemperMortis wrote: Skink, veteran ork players have all the boyz they will likely ever need. New players don't. The problem is that this kit is bad to start an ork army with which means new ork players are a bit screwed. Going by what Jid said in regards to price ($45) it will cost you $90 to field 1 MSU mob of 10 choppa boyz. if you want to do shoota boyz it will cost you $135 for 1 MSU mob. If you want to field a small green tide of 90 Shoota boyz....well GG to your bank account. $1200+ for 90 shoota boyz Definitely affordable for new players right?
Again, I don't disagree it's a bad option for those people. I can only imagine GW don't think people who buy many kits of Boyz make up most of their sales (at least currently, even if it might have been the case in the past).
If for every person that buys 100 Boyz there's 20 people that buys only 10 to 20 Boyz, it might make sense that GW did what they did.
And again, I'm not defending GW's choice, I'm trying to understand it. GW have better data than we do, maybe they just made a massive misstep, or maybe they're acting on what their data is telling them, or maybe it's part of a bigger plan that we haven't seen yet.
Things aren't "Great", but they aren't bad. This new ork kit is in fact "bad". Old players might buy a box or two to give their current mobz a bit of flavor but thats about it. New players will buy maybe 1-3 before saying F*** this and going to EBay to buy the old kits for 1/2 the price. And us older players don't need to "stock up" because we have more then enough as is I'm currently waiting for the new Kommando kit to go on sale because I had to kustom build mine and I want the real models, I just didn't want to spend $50+ for 5 failcast kommandos so this new kit is actually exciting...and it has options!
The underlined bits are exactly the points I presented earlier in this discussion. If old players have hit their Boyz limit, and new players aren't buying Boyz because they're uninspiring, from GW's perspective getting old players to buy a couple of kits and a bunch of new players to buy a couple of kits that's a net win for GW. Especially if those new players go on to buy a box of Snagga Boyz, Buggies, Battlewagons, Bikes, Dakkajets, Flash Gitz, Characters, Kill Rigs, Mek Gunz, etc, then from GW's perspective this set will have achieved its goal.
GW could have released a kit more akin to the Gutrippaz that just came out, with interchangeable weapons and heads, I can only assume they didn't either because of incompetence, or they have more data than us and felt based on that data what they did is the better option for whatever crazy reason, or maybe they have future plans for Orks.
I will admit, I personally think 40k has mostly gone down the crapper as a game, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if these days most people who buy 40k models are just doing it as display pieces rather than as gaming pieces.
I do wonder if most of GW's sales these days just end up in one of the many piles of shame
It seems the net result of their big survey this year was "You seem to love the yearly points updates, so now we're going to double how much you pay for these each year!", I'm not sure we want them listening to us anymore; it just makes things worse.
kodos wrote:
this is the main problem since end of 7th Edition, GW does listen to the community, but the conclusions they make from what you tell them is very often the opposite of what people wanted (remember, we got 8th and 9th because people told them that the entry barrier is too high and there is too much rules bloat)
Have you considered that GW are listening and your opinions are not a reflection of what the player base at large actually wants? Because basically everything in this announcement was what I asked for and I know multiple people who share a similar opinion with me.
Narrative campaign seasons to flesh out the lore and provide new settings to focus on
...but don't rotate these campaigns so quickly that they feel like an afterthought and also become prohibitively expensive to keep up.
Make the narrative of the campaign actually impact the setting in someway. (minor changes being better than "the entire fate of the galaxy rested on it's edge...but the Ultramarines showed up and it was 'kay")
Continued small releases spread around the factions of specialized units or campaign related characters.
More supplements and expanded detail for individual Clans, Craftworlds, Hivefleets, etc.
More support for Crusade and other ways to personalize our armies.
So I mean, we'll see how the actually execution will go but I'm pretty positive about the announcement.
Make the narrative of the campaign actually impact the setting in someway. (minor changes being better than "the entire fate of the galaxy rested on it's edge...but the Ultramarines showed up and it was 'kay")
They tried that when 8th started, and immediately pulled back from an ongoing story back to what 40k actually is: A setting in which stories are told.
More supplements and expanded detail for individual Clans, Craftworlds, Hivefleets, etc.
The rules for something should be in its book. Do you think Dark Eldar and AdMech players appreciated getting their 9th Ed Codices only to find more rules for them in campaign books either released before or at the same time as their book? I think they'd've preferred to have all their rules in their Codex, and not split out into Day-1 DLC.
Ork fans of a certain vintage will meanwhile be pleased to discover that the old Ork Boyz kit is staying on sale, so you can mix and match to muster the best mob of lads this side of Ullanor.
Ork fans of a certain vintage will meanwhile be pleased to discover that the old Ork Boyz kit is staying on sale, so you can mix and match to muster the best mob of lads this side of Ullanor.
Still a huge dissapointement, since it probably means that we won't get a real new ork boys kit in the near/medium future. The old one, while customizable, is starting to show his age.
Andykp wrote: Ok, so some folk are still going to cry a bit.
1. Got new ORK boyz= didn’t want new ones wanted to keep the old ones.
2. Old boyz not going anywhere= rubbish! Wanted new ones.
But…..”no not those new ones, different new ones!”
Refer to point one again and repeat.
To my knowledge, when most people say "I want a new set of Ork Boys models," they wanted something similar to the old box (options for everything, plenty of modularity and customizability, compatible with other kits) but updated to look better.
I don't think anyone wanted 10 monopose Ork Boys with 5 Choppas, 3 Shootas, 1 Heavy Weapon, 1 Nob, and close to zero customizability.
Ork fans of a certain vintage will meanwhile be pleased to discover that the old Ork Boyz kit is staying on sale, so you can mix and match to muster the best mob of lads this side of Ullanor.
Is this a first? I can't recall GW ever keeping an old kit available when releasing a new one.
NAVARRO wrote: So do you need to buy a box of old and a box of new to have one unit? Is the new box an upgrade kit?
Nope. Two separate kits. I’m fairly sure the only difference is the Nobz equipment load out?
And you don't need to buy 3 old boxes to get minimum sized shoota equipped squad with 3 poses 3 times.
Old one is superior.
Superior indeed.
Someone noticed:
"Ork fans of a certain vintage will meanwhile be pleased to discover that the old Ork Boyz kit is staying on sale, so you can mix and match to muster the best mob of lads this side of Ullanor."
I see, so basically you have more models options now which is good for a swarm like army.
Not sure why they didn't add an extra sprue with all the weapons load outs on the new kit, something like Necromunda weapons sprues.
Oh well a bit of an odd one but this should keep most satisfied.
NAVARRO wrote: I see, so basically you have more models options now which is good for a swarm like army.
Not sure why they didn't add an extra sprue with all the weapons load outs on the new kit, something like Necromunda weapons sprues.
Oh well a bit of an odd one but this should keep most satisfied.
Have you looked at the sprues for the new Boyz?
We're not talking about an extra sprue with weapons. We'd be talking about whole bodies in some instances.
NAVARRO wrote: I see, so basically you have more models options now which is good for a swarm like army.
Not sure why they didn't add an extra sprue with all the weapons load outs on the new kit, something like Necromunda weapons sprues.
Oh well a bit of an odd one but this should keep most satisfied.
Have you looked at the sprues for the new Boyz?
We're not talking about an extra sprue with weapons. We'd be talking about whole bodies in some instances.
No I haven't looked into the sprues, damn I assumed they had detachable arms even if legs and bodies were one... thats not a clever way to do multipart, multiple load outs unit! Wow. No need for that sort of design these days.
Kanluwen wrote: Truthfully, I think the idea behind them is to simply have a "Quick Build" option for the army.
The problem is that they look too different. I would not mix them with the old boyz. The now ones definitely look better, so it is a shame they didn't do a proper full update to this aesthetic.
NAVARRO wrote: I see, so basically you have more models options now which is good for a swarm like army.
Not sure why they didn't add an extra sprue with all the weapons load outs on the new kit, something like Necromunda weapons sprues.
Oh well a bit of an odd one but this should keep most satisfied.
Have you looked at the sprues for the new Boyz?
We're not talking about an extra sprue with weapons. We'd be talking about whole bodies in some instances.
No I haven't looked into the sprues, damn I assumed they had detachable arms even if legs and bodies were one... thats not a clever way to do multipart, multiple load outs unit! Wow. No need for that sort of design these days.
They're basically push fit models, which is why originally some people thought they might not even be released separately.
Kanluwen wrote: Truthfully, I think the idea behind them is to simply have a "Quick Build" option for the army.
The problem is that they look too different. I would not mix them with the old boyz. The now ones definitely look better, so it is a shame they didn't do a proper full update to this aesthetic.
Whilst I think the new ones do look better, if I had a swarm of old ones I'd be happy enough adding these ones to the mix.
As much as like their decision, I am pretty mad now. This is the second time that GW screwed me over with this topic. I want to build a Kill Team of Orks with lots of boys, now I bought the second time in the name of "Last chance to buy" the old boys and now they say that its still going to be available. This is screwing over my monthly hobby money pot. I just hope that they dont change the Loota boys box in the foreseeable future.
I've been wondering if there was a plan to do a proper update to them when the second factory went live but the lack of that happening means the plans got shelved for the time being.
Same thing goes for the Cadians to be honest.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
herjan1987 wrote: As much as like their decision, I am pretty mad now. This is the second time that GW screwed me over with this topic. I want to build a Kill Team of Orks with lots of boys, now I bought the second time in the name of "Last chance to buy" the old boys and now they say that its still going to be available. This is screwing over my monthly hobby money pot. I just hope that they dont change the Loota boys box in the foreseeable future.
They never said they were going away. They would have put them under "Last Chance to Buy" if they had been.
herjan1987 wrote: As much as like their decision, I am pretty mad now. This is the second time that GW screwed me over with this topic. I want to build a Kill Team of Orks with lots of boys, now I bought the second time in the name of "Last chance to buy" the old boys and now they say that its still going to be available. This is screwing over my monthly hobby money pot. I just hope that they dont change the Loota boys box in the foreseeable future.
They never said they were going away. They would have put them under "Last Chance to Buy" if they had been.
Well its GW you never know. They didnt say that old Blood Knights, Skeleton Warriors or Zombies and they did go away. This is an exception in GWs history.
NAVARRO wrote: I see, so basically you have more models options now which is good for a swarm like army.
Not sure why they didn't add an extra sprue with all the weapons load outs on the new kit, something like Necromunda weapons sprues.
Oh well a bit of an odd one but this should keep most satisfied.
Have you looked at the sprues for the new Boyz?
We're not talking about an extra sprue with weapons. We'd be talking about whole bodies in some instances.
No I haven't looked into the sprues, damn I assumed they had detachable arms even if legs and bodies were one... thats not a clever way to do multipart, multiple load outs unit! Wow. No need for that sort of design these days.
Yes it's over all a change in model design which leads to weapons swapping issues. GW seemed to have very little interest in letting players decide what they wish to field as part of their Ork boys mob.
I guess they think that if players want more options them mathematically they can do that by buying more boxes., which is good for them less so for the rest of us. But aside from GW making more money this way I suspect it's more to do with the newer modeling concepts they've been using.
Funny enough I've started to wonder if I could add green stuff and correct the posture of these new Ork bodies to look more ape like, like the OG boys/Orks that apparently lots of people don't like.
I like my aliens to look more alien than human. But alas I doubt I will buy any of the new Boys or new combat patrol any time soon. My WAAAAGH! is already far too large. But I would still love to add 30 or 40 Big-un's if the opportunity presented it self and I didn't have to spend any money...
I mean easy builds, snap fits do have a place in swarm like armies, pox walkers and such but the moment you go there then most just become loadout generic. Prices should reflect that shortcoming too.
Theres something odd about the decision to release this as they are and we will probably never know the details. As it stands just make the best out of it and mix the kits the best you can.
Yes its perfectly natural to expect modern models/kits to have most options covered, smarter sculpts and the old kits to vanish, so this looks like a Patch release for something else.
Its not ideal to have 2 box sets for the same unit, just imagine that happening for all the other armies.
NAVARRO wrote: I mean easy builds, snap fits do have a place in swarm like armies, pox walkers and such but the moment you go there then most just become loadout generic. Prices should reflect that shortcoming too.
Theres something odd about the decision to release this as they are and we will probably never know the details. As it stands just make the best out of it and mix the kits the best you can.
Yes its perfectly natural to expect modern models/kits to have most options covered, smarter sculpts and the old kits to vanish, so this looks like a Patch release for something else.
Its not ideal to have 2 box sets for the same unit, just imagine that happening for all the other armies.
I can agree. I think it's worth considering that the limited choices / loadouts is just another symptom of GW's current and ongoing game philosophy, what ever it is.
The base loadout from the box isn't ideal or even optimal it was mentioned by some one that a new Ork player would need 3 combat patrol boxes to get the right ratio of boys for the weapons included.
And knowing how prices go I would agree and encourage that for any new player looking for a pile of nu-boys.
And even this box would be something I could accept easily enough if GW said they have plans for another box of new sculpts in the pipeline and we'd get them in a year or so. Who knows maybe they will with the next new codex. No telling. (Probably not! )
So I have been wondering about the random nature of the combat patrol and some of the models. I can't help but wonder if orks were a candidate for the starter box and what we see here is black reach mk2? Just utilising the assets rather than leaving them as no longer needed.
But aside from GW making more money this way I suspect it's more to do with the newer modeling concepts they've been using.
Hummm, like design/modelling not talking with game designers? Well communication or the lack of it is a big problem in most companies so yeah I could see that happening. I wonder if every department even knows what games they are doing the kits for. These projects are done with so much lead time, that alone is probably so confusing. A model designer would know if these Orks are for killteam> 40k > another new boxed game etc...?
Dudeface wrote: So I have been wondering about the random nature of the combat patrol and some of the models. I can't help but wonder if orks were a candidate for the starter box and what we see here is black reach mk2? Just utilising the assets rather than leaving them as no longer needed.
I don't think they were intended for a starter box, sadly. If they had been? We likely would have seen more of a spread of items in that simplified format across the sprues. If you go and look at the SC: CSM and Combat Patrol: Space Marines? Those two were reputedly intended to be a starter set but just became a battlebox instead.
It might be they intended to have them as a "launch box" item, with 3 sprues rather than 2(which would net you 9 Shootas, 3 Nobs, 3 of either a Big Shoota or Rokkit Launcha, and 15 Choppa+Slugga Boyz to get set up however you chose). Or it's possible that they intended to have Shootas be a "X in Y" upgrade to a unit of Choppas and left that on the cutting room floor.
There's a lot of "what if" going on of late and it's unlikely we'll ever get a definitive explanation as to why.
Dudeface wrote: So I have been wondering about the random nature of the combat patrol and some of the models. I can't help but wonder if orks were a candidate for the starter box and what we see here is black reach mk2? Just utilising the assets rather than leaving them as no longer needed.
I don't think they were intended for a starter box, sadly. If they had been? We likely would have seen more of a spread of items in that simplified format across the sprues. If you go and look at the SC: CSM and Combat Patrol: Space Marines? Those two were reputedly intended to be a starter set but just became a battlebox instead.
It might be they intended to have them as a "launch box" item, with 3 sprues rather than 2(which would net you 9 Shootas, 3 Nobs, 3 of either a Big Shoota or Rokkit Launcha, and 15 Choppa+Slugga Boyz to get set up however you chose). Or it's possible that they intended to have Shootas be a "X in Y" upgrade to a unit of Choppas and left that on the cutting room floor.
There's a lot of "what if" going on of late and it's unlikely we'll ever get a definitive explanation as to why.
Yeah but CSM got two new kits for the, well, Chaos Space Marines.
Dudeface wrote: So I have been wondering about the random nature of the combat patrol and some of the models. I can't help but wonder if orks were a candidate for the starter box and what we see here is black reach mk2? Just utilising the assets rather than leaving them as no longer needed.
I don't think they were intended for a starter box, sadly. If they had been? We likely would have seen more of a spread of items in that simplified format across the sprues. If you go and look at the SC: CSM and Combat Patrol: Space Marines? Those two were reputedly intended to be a starter set but just became a battlebox instead.
It might be they intended to have them as a "launch box" item, with 3 sprues rather than 2(which would net you 9 Shootas, 3 Nobs, 3 of either a Big Shoota or Rokkit Launcha, and 15 Choppa+Slugga Boyz to get set up however you chose). Or it's possible that they intended to have Shootas be a "X in Y" upgrade to a unit of Choppas and left that on the cutting room floor.
There's a lot of "what if" going on of late and it's unlikely we'll ever get a definitive explanation as to why.
Oh very much so, it just struck me the monopose troops with the conveniently matching outriders deffkoptas and a warboss who would nicely match a captain appeared as they did. But yeah there's a lot of weird happenings recently and it definitely seems like they're reusing assets or half projects for reduced waste.
Dudeface wrote: So I have been wondering about the random nature of the combat patrol and some of the models. I can't help but wonder if orks were a candidate for the starter box and what we see here is black reach mk2? Just utilising the assets rather than leaving them as no longer needed.
I think the actual answer is even simpler than this. The Combat Patrol is the spiritual successor to AoBR and was always planned to be.
If you look at the existing plastic Ork range a lot of the core kits are older ones with inefficient use of sprue space and/or tons of options. That makes it harder to put together an efficient starter set for the factions as it becomes tough to physically fit them all into the same box while reaching the target power level for the set. So why not copy AoBR, the set that kickstarted many Ork armies in 5th?
GW made push-fit kits specifically for the new Combat Patrol in a similar vein, also filling some gaps in the range at the same time.
The separate release for this Boyz kit is just because the other kits needed their own releases, and there's no real downside for GW.
herjan1987 wrote: As much as like their decision, I am pretty mad now. This is the second time that GW screwed me over with this topic. I want to build a Kill Team of Orks with lots of boys, now I bought the second time in the name of "Last chance to buy" the old boys and now they say that its still going to be available. This is screwing over my monthly hobby money pot. I just hope that they dont change the Loota boys box in the foreseeable future.
They never said they were going away. They would have put them under "Last Chance to Buy" if they had been.
A lot of folks on reddit felt the old box wasn't going away, I guess they were right. I was suspicious that it wouldn't be going away based on it both not going into Last Chance and also being reboxed and not selling out, but if I needed some Boyz I probably would have been stocking up none the less.
Then the plastic “monopose” boyz they replaced them with. Now that really is monopose. None of this is new and but this time we are better off, both kits are miles better than these and the older kit is still available.
Andykp wrote: Then the plastic “monopose” boyz they replaced them with. Now that really is monopose. None of this is new and but this time we are better off, both kits are miles better than these and the older kit is still available.
I wasn't really into Orks back in the day, but weren't the metals also an option when that plastic set came out? Monopose, but I seem to recall there being something like 50 different poses.
Wasn't a fan of the Ork aesthetic back then, liked some of the whackiness but the models didn't do much for me. Didn't start collecting them until Gorkamorka and the rise of the gorilla aesthetic.
Andykp wrote: Then the plastic “monopose” boyz they replaced them with. Now that really is monopose. None of this is new and but this time we are better off, both kits are miles better than these and the older kit is still available.
I wasn't really into Orks back in the day, but weren't the metals also an option when that plastic set came out? Monopose, but I seem to recall there being something like 50 different poses.
Wasn't a fan of the Ork aesthetic back then, liked some of the whackiness but the models didn't do much for me. Didn't start collecting them until Gorkamorka and the rise of the gorilla aesthetic.
There were metal ones with plastic arms but you still have multiples of the same model really. The plastic boyz were the affordable way to have an ORK army back then. The metal and plastic boyz looked nothing alike. I spent most of my teenage years replacing my plastic stuff with metal just for third edition to invalidate the vast majority of my army.
The plastic goff boyz from 2nd edition were shocking. All goffs. Two parts, only “posable” bit was the pistol arm that could be attached a slightly different angle of rotation. Other wise all the same pose. Same with the Grots.
Andykp wrote: Then the plastic “monopose” boyz they replaced them with. Now that really is monopose. None of this is new and but this time we are better off, both kits are miles better than these and the older kit is still available.
I wasn't really into Orks back in the day, but weren't the metals also an option when that plastic set came out? Monopose, but I seem to recall there being something like 50 different poses.
Wasn't a fan of the Ork aesthetic back then, liked some of the whackiness but the models didn't do much for me. Didn't start collecting them until Gorkamorka and the rise of the gorilla aesthetic.
There were metal ones with plastic arms but you still have multiples of the same model really. The plastic boyz were the affordable way to have an ORK army back then. The metal and plastic boyz looked nothing alike. I spent most of my teenage years replacing my plastic stuff with metal just for third edition to invalidate the vast majority of my army.
The plastic goff boyz from 2nd edition were shocking. All goffs. Two parts, only “posable” bit was the pistol arm that could be attached a slightly different angle of rotation. Other wise all the same pose. Same with the Grots.
Maybe the ones I'm thinking of are older than that, I seem to recall several pages in one of the old catalogues dedicated to metal Boyz that did not have plastic arms, they were all metal and there were many different poses.
Andykp wrote: Ok, so some folk are still going to cry a bit.
1. Got new ORK boyz= didn’t want new ones wanted to keep the old ones.
2. Old boyz not going anywhere= rubbish! Wanted new ones.
But…..”no not those new ones, different new ones!”
Refer to point one again and repeat.
I am happy . But not for me, as I already have too many ork boyz and wouldn't buy the new ones or more older ones anyway. I'm glad people who want their army to be customizable and very open to easy kitbashing can still look at orks as an interesting project to start. I also think that older boyz, along with the entire ork infantry models' line, still look amazing, and actually much better than most of the other factions' models including some that have been recently updated, like deathguard, necrons or SM.
Yeah, I'm happy as well with this solution. New ork players can now use the combat patrol as a new and improved AOBR to get off the ground just like many other ork players did, and then use the old kit to expand the monopose boyz into some proper units.
I think this is the best solution short of coming up with a new boyz box that was a proper update and not what they did instead. Good on them for pivoting, at least.
Maybe the ones I'm thinking of are older than that, I seem to recall several pages in one of the old catalogues dedicated to metal Boyz that did not have plastic arms, they were all metal and there were many different poses.
There were dozens of orks in the Rogue Trader era. The idea that metal models meant a limited range wasn't true in those days. Even if many models were based on the same armatures there was still huge variety in the models available. Click "next" and have a browse.
http://www.solegends.com/citcat1991a/cat1991ap062orkbosses-02.htm
Maybe the ones I'm thinking of are older than that, I seem to recall several pages in one of the old catalogues dedicated to metal Boyz that did not have plastic arms, they were all metal and there were many different poses.
There were dozens of orks in the Rogue Trader era. The idea that metal models meant a limited range wasn't true in those days. Even if many models were based on the same armatures there was still huge variety in the models available. Click "next" and have a browse.
http://www.solegends.com/citcat1991a/cat1991ap062orkbosses-02.htm
I miss metal models so much. Besides plastic designs are going monopose so yeah even less reasons to have plastic.
GW put resources into designing and printing a new 9E-style box & assembly instructions for the old kit, that's not really a company tends to waste resources on for old products with a limited shelf life. I'm pretty sure it was always the plan to sell both kits.
They should have communicated the whole thing better though, would have saved a lot of online drama.
"Yes they were. Here are 84 different monopose metal models for your TROOPS. In an edition where having 30 troops in the board would be quite a lot. And that's only the second wave of metal Orks."
The metal era of GW was great, but extremely difficult to collect actual hordes. And not easy to convert. The extremely monopose plastics were a godsend (Though I was in the WFB section of Orcy armies at the time)
Monopose plastics are never going to have that level of variety. The manufacturing process just doesn't work for it.
Ten Internet Dollars (real value £0) says that within a decade, GW invests in a bunch of high end resin printers and starts doing monopose 3d printed models. Not selling the STLs - just printing the models and selling as they did for metal. If they want to be really clever with their supply chain, they'll install one in each GW store. Place your order and go in and pick up a few days later. Inspect in the store, if the print isn't up to quality they print you another for free (much as their customer service used to be excellent for miscasts)
Anyway. New Boyz. Look alright. Not how I would do it, but as I've said before - don't they have to keep the old sprue in production for the specialists like Lootas and Burnas that are based on it?
GW put resources into designing and printing a new 9E-style box & assembly instructions for the old kit, that's not really a company tends to waste resources on for old products with a limited shelf life. I'm pretty sure it was always the plan to sell both kits.
They should have communicated the whole thing better though, would have saved a lot of online drama.
Yeah, I don't think they "pivoted" so much as that was always their plan and they just never communicated it to us until now due to the backlash.
Andykp wrote: Then the plastic “monopose” boyz they replaced them with. Now that really is monopose. None of this is new and but this time we are better off, both kits are miles better than these and the older kit is still available.
I wasn't really into Orks back in the day, but weren't the metals also an option when that plastic set came out? Monopose, but I seem to recall there being something like 50 different poses.
Wasn't a fan of the Ork aesthetic back then, liked some of the whackiness but the models didn't do much for me. Didn't start collecting them until Gorkamorka and the rise of the gorilla aesthetic.
There were metal ones with plastic arms but you still have multiples of the same model really. The plastic boyz were the affordable way to have an ORK army back then. The metal and plastic boyz looked nothing alike. I spent most of my teenage years replacing my plastic stuff with metal just for third edition to invalidate the vast majority of my army.
The plastic goff boyz from 2nd edition were shocking. All goffs. Two parts, only “posable” bit was the pistol arm that could be attached a slightly different angle of rotation. Other wise all the same pose. Same with the Grots.
Maybe the ones I'm thinking of are older than that, I seem to recall several pages in one of the old catalogues dedicated to metal Boyz that did not have plastic arms, they were all metal and there were many different poses.
You’re right there was, the very first space ORK raiders. I forgot them as I never really got any of them, they were replaced by the metal/plastic ones really.
Maybe the ones I'm thinking of are older than that, I seem to recall several pages in one of the old catalogues dedicated to metal Boyz that did not have plastic arms, they were all metal and there were many different poses.
There were dozens of orks in the Rogue Trader era. The idea that metal models meant a limited range wasn't true in those days. Even if many models were based on the same armatures there was still huge variety in the models available. Click "next" and have a browse.
http://www.solegends.com/citcat1991a/cat1991ap062orkbosses-02.htm
I miss metal models so much. Besides plastic designs are going monopose so yeah even less reasons to have plastic.
I thought I missed metal models too but then I got a steel legion army a few years ago and painted them up and it was horrible. Purely from a painting point of view the experience of getting the paint on the model, plastic for me is the king.
Getting the Warboss, two sets of EZBuild Boyz, the Koptaz and a Deff Dread will set you back AUD$395. Buying the Combat Patrol from a discounter will cost you AUD$184. Yeah I'll take a 53% discount thanks...
Why wouldn't you buy the individual kits from the same discounter? Combat patrol is a lot cheaper, but seems like a false comparison to make things look worse than they are.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: This is where we get a potential false economy. By which (because internets) I mean ‘a discount does not mean better value’
All the time you make use of the CP contents, do it. Buy that. No question, no doubt it’s the better price.
Beyond that? Maybe wait and see how the 2nd band market prices the gubbins you don’t want from that set, and go accordingly.
Not really. The price difference is so big that even if you don't want everything in the combat patrol, its still better to buy it than the kits you do want separately, unless you seriously only want 1 or 2 things out of the box.
Even if you definitely don't want a warboss and deff dread, 2 boys boxes and the koptas (154+98) are still more than the combat patrol (230). You'd be daft to buy them separately, even before discounts, even if you just threw them the other kits in the trash afterwards.
Is boyz mobs even practical at this point though. I know a lot of people are making waves about not being able to make 30 boyz with the new kit without getting several kits but I thought with the new blast rules and that fielding 30 boyz was a thing of the past?
A lot of blast weapons aren't the terrors they seemed to be at the start of the edition. Most armies have better options from high ROF mid strength weapons.
With a few exceptions there arent a lot of armies that want to turn up with a pile of blast weapons.
at this point the idea of a guard player turning up with a loads of missile launchers or mortars is just kind of...cute.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: This is where we get a potential false economy. By which (because internets) I mean ‘a discount does not mean better value’
All the time you make use of the CP contents, do it. Buy that. No question, no doubt it’s the better price.
Beyond that? Maybe wait and see how the 2nd band market prices the gubbins you don’t want from that set, and go accordingly.
Not really. The price difference is so big that even if you don't want everything in the combat patrol, its still better to buy it than the kits you do want separately, unless you seriously only want 1 or 2 things out of the box.
Even if you definitely don't want a warboss and deff dread, 2 boys boxes and the koptas (154+98) are still more than the combat patrol (230). You'd be daft to buy them separately, even before discounts, even if you just threw them the other kits in the trash afterwards.
Ignoring the false "buy individually direct from GW but bundle from a discounter", it's a 41% saving. I haven't looked at any of the other Combat Patrol sets to know if that's a good saving compared to what's typical.
I'm sure there'll be plenty of people who only want 1 or 2 things out of it. Given the amount of whinging about monopose, there's probably some people who don't want more than 1 box of the Boyz anyway. If you're just buying it for a Kill Team you might not care about all the other stuff. If you already have lots of Koptas and Dreads you might just buy the other stuff separately.
Of course you could just sell off the bits you don't want, but personally I tend to value my time more than my money and so I typically don't buy things to sell later (unless I can tee up someone locally to split it with beforehand or it's genuinely a decent amount of money I could make).
Automatically Appended Next Post:
H.B.M.C. wrote: Well they're up for Pre-Order on the Oz site.
AUD$77 for the Boyz
That's basically what we were expecting. That's the same price as the old Cadians repackaged with the new sprue, which is $45USD.
Voss wrote: A lot of blast weapons aren't the terrors they seemed to be at the start of the edition. Most armies have better options from high ROF mid strength weapons.
With a few exceptions there arent a lot of armies that want to turn up with a pile of blast weapons.
at this point the idea of a guard player turning up with a loads of missile launchers or mortars is just kind of...cute.
The biggest effect of blasts on orks is running 10 boyz instead of 12 inside a trukk because a single blast will likely negate the extra two wounds you paint points for.
Ork's don't run units of 30 boyz because of morale, you fail morale so easily and lose so many models to attrition that bring such large units is just a waste of points.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
H.B.M.C. wrote: My points is more why would you buy the individual kits ever?
For most veterans, the box is not attractive at all.
Most veterans don't need boyz, because they have more than enough, because they are a bad unit these days and the set doesn't build into optimal load-outs anyways.
Most people have enough deff dreads, considering how often you got them as part of boxes and how many deals GW has done on them in the past (2-for-1 dread box, for example). They also realistically max out at 3, even if you could technically run 9.
Most people have AOBR koptas in masses, and the new load-out isn't that hot gamewise either (KMB were only ever popular as budget option).
The only real new model here is the warboss, and you only really need him once. But many ork armies don't need that kind of warboss, or are already using one of the other variants.
So many people will just want one or two kits out of that box. And while you could buy all of it and sell the rest, your time isn't free either.
The good news is that people will pick apart the combat patrol anyways and sell the parts for less than what GW is taking
angel of death 007 wrote: Is boyz mobs even practical at this point though. I know a lot of people are making waves about not being able to make 30 boyz with the new kit without getting several kits but I thought with the new blast rules and that fielding 30 boyz was a thing of the past?
Forget 30. You can't build even 10 without being silly. You need 2 boxes to build choppa mob. 3 for shoota boy,
Good thing boys atm suck. Of course that's transitory as well
The MA Warboss is a nice model, but look at all the empty space on the sprue! Would it have killed them to give us some options? A PK and kombiweapon maybe, if you don't want the grot? At least give us some optional heads or klan iconography?
Oguhmek wrote: The MA Warboss is a nice model, but look at all the empty space on the sprue! Would it have killed them to give us some options? A PK and kombiweapon maybe, if you don't want the grot? At least give us some optional heads or klan iconography?
Lots of missed opportunity there.
The lack of PK is intentional, I believe. Lots of scratch built/converted warbosses in mega armour around (I also have one!) but none with big choppa, as it wasn't legal if taken in combination with a mega armour. I think GW wanted to sell a model that was really something new for all players.
angel of death 007 wrote: Is boyz mobs even practical at this point though. I know a lot of people are making waves about not being able to make 30 boyz with the new kit without getting several kits but I thought with the new blast rules and that fielding 30 boyz was a thing of the past?
Are they practical in current day 9th edition? No. They lost a plethora of things.
NERFS:
Mob Rule. Went from # of models in the unit or nearby units = LD. New Mob rule, if a mob is nearby and above 50% you count as above 50%.
Large Mob buff: Lost +1 attack for 20+ Models
Lost Green Tide Stratagem: This one allowed you to bring a unit of boyz back to life so long as it had at least 1 model remaining. you could theoretically resurrect 203pts worth of boyz with this trick.
Fight Twice Stratagem: Can no longer fight twice.
Weirdboy Buffs: Weirdboy became less reliable so getting those important Da Jumps off is harder now.
Lost +1 to charge. In Evil Sunz you could get +1 to charge, this made deep striking boyz with Da Jump or "Teleporta" a reliable trick. Because it was also teamed with...
Changed "ere we go" special rule: Old Ere we go was you could pick to re-roll 1 or both dice. New Ere we go is you HAVE to re-roll both dice. Doesn't sound bad but think about it this way, if I roll a 6 and a 1, i could choose to re-roll the 1 and have a 66% chance to roll 3+ and have a successful charge. Now I have to re-roll both.
KFF NERF: Kustom Force Field. Went from 6' bubble that gave 5++ to any unit completely under the bubble to 9' bubble that buffs any unit it touches....however its now a 6++, so yeah, you probably reach 1-2 extra units, but you lost 50% of its function.
Points: Boyz went from 7ppm in 8th to 9ppm in 9th and had all those aforementioned nerfs applied. Why? because they got T5.
Base Size: official base size went up, now its harder to fit as many boyz in CC as you used to be able to.
Close Combat got smaller: If you want to fight in CC now the range to be considered in combat is smaller then ever, you can only reliably get 2 full rows into CC now, it used to be 3, so now Ork boyz are more expensive, less deadly and fewer can fight.
So at the moment no, they are not really worth taking or investing in. However, if you have learned anything from GW's business practices over the last however many years you have played, its that all units are cyclical. What was good in 8th will suck in 9th or what is good in 9th will be crap in 10th. Its not always true but its a good general rule. So while boyz might be functionally useless right now, that doesn't mean in 10th they won't be good.
The biggest effect of blasts on orks is running 10 boyz instead of 12 inside a trukk because a single blast will likely negate the extra two wounds you paint points for.
Ork's don't run units of 30 boyz because of morale, you fail morale so easily and lose so many models to attrition that bring such large units is just a waste of points.
This, as well as all the points I made above. Blast isn't that big of a deal honestly, for a D6 blast weapon they go from 3.5 shots on average to 6 or an increase of 2.5 extra shots, not hits, shots. Morale is absolutely the biggest crusher of ork boyz right now, quickly followed by delivery system, dmg output and buff support.
You can take these lads as they come in the box – a combined-arms unit – or get multiple boxes to create units specialised in either shootin’ or choppin’
You can take these lads as they come in the box – a combined-arms unit – or get multiple boxes to create units specialised in either shootin’ or choppin’
Unreal..
Translation: FETH we totally forgot that ork boyz can be built in 2 ways but we didn't include enough plastic to make them that way...hopefully they are stupid enough to not realize and buy 10 boxes to equip 1 full size mob of boyz.
Joking aside, with how the game is currently going in terms of anti-horde sentiment, smaller board sizes, more and more rules prohibitive to bringing large squads, fewer and fewer force multipliers worth taking and buffs becoming worse for horde armies...I really think GW is getting ready for 10th edition where they limit squad size to 20 or even 15. Its the only feasible reason I can think of for why GW would make this new kit. If a mob maxes out at 15 it would only take 4-5 boxes to make shoota mobz and 2 to make a choppa mob.
angel of death 007 wrote: Is boyz mobs even practical at this point though. I know a lot of people are making waves about not being able to make 30 boyz with the new kit without getting several kits but I thought with the new blast rules and that fielding 30 boyz was a thing of the past?
Are they practical in current day 9th edition? No. They lost a plethora of things.
NERFS:
Mob Rule. Went from # of models in the unit or nearby units = LD. New Mob rule, if a mob is nearby and above 50% you count as above 50%.
Large Mob buff: Lost +1 attack for 20+ Models
Lost Green Tide Stratagem: This one allowed you to bring a unit of boyz back to life so long as it had at least 1 model remaining. you could theoretically resurrect 203pts worth of boyz with this trick.
Fight Twice Stratagem: Can no longer fight twice.
Weirdboy Buffs: Weirdboy became less reliable so getting those important Da Jumps off is harder now.
Lost +1 to charge. In Evil Sunz you could get +1 to charge, this made deep striking boyz with Da Jump or "Teleporta" a reliable trick. Because it was also teamed with...
Changed "ere we go" special rule: Old Ere we go was you could pick to re-roll 1 or both dice. New Ere we go is you HAVE to re-roll both dice. Doesn't sound bad but think about it this way, if I roll a 6 and a 1, i could choose to re-roll the 1 and have a 66% chance to roll 3+ and have a successful charge. Now I have to re-roll both.
KFF NERF: Kustom Force Field. Went from 6' bubble that gave 5++ to any unit completely under the bubble to 9' bubble that buffs any unit it touches....however its now a 6++, so yeah, you probably reach 1-2 extra units, but you lost 50% of its function.
Points: Boyz went from 7ppm in 8th to 9ppm in 9th and had all those aforementioned nerfs applied. Why? because they got T5.
Base Size: official base size went up, now its harder to fit as many boyz in CC as you used to be able to.
Close Combat got smaller: If you want to fight in CC now the range to be considered in combat is smaller then ever, you can only reliably get 2 full rows into CC now, it used to be 3, so now Ork boyz are more expensive, less deadly and fewer can fight.
So at the moment no, they are not really worth taking or investing in. However, if you have learned anything from GW's business practices over the last however many years you have played, its that all units are cyclical. What was good in 8th will suck in 9th or what is good in 9th will be crap in 10th. Its not always true but its a good general rule. So while boyz might be functionally useless right now, that doesn't mean in 10th they won't be good.
The biggest effect of blasts on orks is running 10 boyz instead of 12 inside a trukk because a single blast will likely negate the extra two wounds you paint points for.
Ork's don't run units of 30 boyz because of morale, you fail morale so easily and lose so many models to attrition that bring such large units is just a waste of points.
This, as well as all the points I made above. Blast isn't that big of a deal honestly, for a D6 blast weapon they go from 3.5 shots on average to 6 or an increase of 2.5 extra shots, not hits, shots. Morale is absolutely the biggest crusher of ork boyz right now, quickly followed by delivery system, dmg output and buff support.
Thanks for all the insight. I do miss the days of massive ork boyz squads, granted you lost quite a few getting them there but once they were in combat they really tied up your opponent.
I think what's quite interesting about the above summary of the changes to Boyz is that it emphasises how much of their previous perceived "viability" was down to stacking up a bunch of kinda gamey rules interactions, several of which were dependent on taking the biggest possible unit. I get the impression that what GW was going for was to reduce this over-reliance on running Boyz one fairly specific way in order to get anything out of them, but seems like the fairly minor gains they got were negated by what they had taken away, and then the problem was compounded by cranking up the points cost on top of that.
Personally, I'm of the opinion that Boyz shouldn't be an elite-level threat – more a troublesome sea of bodies that will overrun you unless they're dealt with – and I like the idea of not being limited to running 30-strong mobs in order to be remotely viable, but what you currently get for your points/power just isn't up to snuff. Tbh, it doesn't help that our *other* Troops option also got worse and more expensive as well.
The problem is that Orks don't have any decent troops now. Grots are completely useless and a waste of points and Boyz... they don't DO anything anymore. To unreliable to cause any significant damage against anything and too frail to withstand even the lightest firepower. The new mob rule took away any benefits of the T5, because you don't need to cause many wounds before the unit folds anyway.
(or not. everything has been said multiple times now)
And yet we still have posters saying Boyz are competitive I think Xenos changed account names and is now running 5-6 bot accounts to make the Stompa look more powerful
. Now we have a modern sculpt that doesn't invalidate the older one and doesn't even cost more. Win win for everyone I think.
I missed that one. So only a 25% increase in price for fewer models, fewer options and no organic way to field 1 type of boyz 
