lord_blackfang wrote: Shoutout to the Rockgut Troggoths box, 3 fixed pairs of legs but 12 arms, 9 heads, everything fits with everything else, and each arm comes with its whole half of the shoulders and back, so the musculature even looks natural in all combinations too.
Yes, i was quite genuinely suprised with how great of a kit that is, the only thing that could've made it better is if the legs were in slightly diffrent poses. Otherwise it's ace.
So no Kill-Rigz/Hunta-Rigz, Great White Squig/Squigosaur or Painboss. Also no indication if Deffkoptaz or Mega-Armoured Warboss will get a separate release, of whether they are forever locked inside a Combat Patrol with the new mono-pose (and potentially push-fit, given some shots of instructions that leaked) Boyz.
Looking forward to that new Battlewagon price. Let's see if that extra sprue can bring it to AUD$150!
And where are people getting the idea that the rest of the Orks are the week after?
Dudeface wrote: There were a lot of people myself included who warned of the lack of customisation, increased cost etc. and yet people were largely in favour of "old boyz are old, gimme new ones". This is sadly the price to be paid for that.
I've been saying "Be careful what you wish for!" with new Ork Boyz since people first starting calling for them.
I'm sure the usual suspects will be along soon to show us which stage of this table they've reached:
1. "You're crazy! Nothing had changed. They're not mono-pose!" 2. "So what if they are monopose? They're not that posable now, so it's not that big a difference!" 3. "We like it because they're dynamic and the old ones were bad anyway!" 4. "No options and nonposable is actually better for everyone/the game/etc.!" 5. "It's just nostalgia/rose-tinted glasses that you think they were posable/easy to convert!" 6. "You should be thankful there are even options at all!"
Haven't seen anyone get to Stage 6. Yet.
Kanluwen wrote: The Cadian sprue proves literally nothing outside of "a new sprue adds cost".
Honestly, still probably gonna get 2 copies of the patrol box. I have plans for conversions on the megaboss. Always love to dick around with the deff dread kit and I love those new deffkoptas.Shame about the loss of shoota options though. Had mine converted for cheap dakka. Probably don't need more boyz... but heck a new kit is fun to work with.
I've spent some time assembling the beastsnagga boyz, and while the models look good on their own... Gork's teef is assembling them soul-crushingly boring. They're as monopose as monopose can get: every model can only be assembled in one specific way, and with the model being made out of lots of parts, you spend a lot of time peering at the sprues looking for the right bits on the sprue.
Which is the opposite of what assembling Orks should be like! Putting together Orks is supposed to be fun! You're supposed to be looking at a pile of bits and wondering "so how can I make this mad lad look his maddest?"
Ugh. If the new boyz models are just as monopose, them being limited to the combat patrol might actually be a temporary blessing. Lets Ork players stock up on Boyz while they still can.
Add that to the Squighog Boyz, who don't even have alternate heads.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Add that to the Squighog Boyz, who don't even have alternate heads.
Well they can't just create a market for third party bits companies, can they!?
Their new tournament rules should be very clear demonstration of where GW's head is at these days: The only hobby in town is the Games Workshop Hobby™.
H.B.M.C. wrote: So no Kill-Rigz/Hunta-Rigz, Great White Squig/Squigosaur or Painboss. Also no indication if Deffkoptaz or Mega-Armoured Warboss will get a separate release, of whether they are forever locked inside a Combat Patrol with the new mono-pose (and potentially push-fit, given some shots of instructions that leaked) Boyz.
Looking forward to that new Battlewagon price. Let's see if that extra sprue can bring it to AUD$150!
And where are people getting the idea that the rest of the Orks are the week after?
Dudeface wrote: There were a lot of people myself included who warned of the lack of customisation, increased cost etc. and yet people were largely in favour of "old boyz are old, gimme new ones". This is sadly the price to be paid for that.
I've been saying "Be careful what you wish for!" with new Ork Boyz since people first starting calling for them.
I'm sure the usual suspects will be along soon to show us which stage of this table they've reached:
1. "You're crazy! Nothing had changed. They're not mono-pose!" 2. "So what if they are monopose? They're not that posable now, so it's not that big a difference!" 3. "We like it because they're dynamic and the old ones were bad anyway!" 4. "No options and nonposable is actually better for everyone/the game/etc.!" 5. "It's just nostalgia/rose-tinted glasses that you think they were posable/easy to convert!" 6. "You should be thankful there are even options at all!"
Haven't seen anyone get to Stage 6. Yet.
Dunno, I think whoever designed the sprue is at that point. And specifically _only_ for the big shoota/rokkit swap.
Looking at the combat patrol picture, it looks like it builds exactly 10 slugga/choppa boys and exactly 6 shoota boys, + 2 swappable heavy weapons and the nob options (there seems to be the obvious weapons and heads for him, but only one boss pole).
---
Also you left out an option (which I've sadly seen multiple times at this point):
- "No one can possibly see differences in models on the table anyway!"
Which, if ever true, means the person should give up on miniatures games and go back to Avalon Hill style map and chit games. There isn't any point.
Mark my words though. I'm going to make those damn riders a bit more varied when I get a second batch. If I can do it with the bloodbowl orks I can do it with these lads.
I wonder if the squig hogs would have had more options if they hadn't crammed in the stupid rammasquig. I love that model, but did it really need to come in that set?
The only set I think is a good comparison would be the thunder wolf riders, and they had plenty of options to choose from.
Curiously the smasha squig has the most options. Different head, plate for the squig, a bionic leg and you can choose which weapon he's holding. From my point of view he's the best model in the current release in that you can make a few who aren't identical.
I've spent some time assembling the beastsnagga boyz, and while the models look good on their own... Gork's teef is assembling them soul-crushingly boring. They're as monopose as monopose can get: every model can only be assembled in one specific way, and with the model being made out of lots of parts, you spend a lot of time peering at the sprues looking for the right bits on the sprue.
Which is the opposite of what assembling Orks should be like! Putting together Orks is supposed to be fun! You're supposed to be looking at a pile of bits and wondering "so how can I make this mad lad look his maddest?"
Ugh. If the new boyz models are just as monopose, them being limited to the combat patrol might actually be a temporary blessing. Lets Ork players stock up on Boyz while they still can.
Add that to the Squighog Boyz, who don't even have alternate heads.
Oh dear...
Thats actually not completely true, the instructions don't tell you that but multiple arms can actually fit multiple bodys on the boys.
The connections between arm and body is mostly the same on all models the limiting factor is the shoulder plate most of the time. But as long as you are willing to cut a little bit you can actually get quite a few different configurations.
For example here is my instructions where I tried to find which bits fit which body, of course no guarantee all of them fit perfectly and you will have to cut a bit to fit the shoulder plates but it should show they aren't as monopose as they look at first
https://i.imgur.com/aIyQ4Jj.jpg (Also there are double Slugga/Shoota combinations here so if you don't like that be careful, always dry fit first)
Matrindur wrote: Thats actually not completely true... But as long as you are willing to cut a little bit...
So it's completely true then. They are, to quote the other post, "as monopose as monopose can get". To put it another way: If you need to start cutting away at the minis to change their poses, then they are monopose.
I don't have a problem with you trying to convert your monopose Orks to make them look different, but don't try to pretend that "You can convert them!" suddenly means that the base minis, as supplied in box, are not monopose.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I don't have a problem with you trying to convert your monopose Orks to make them look different, but don't try to pretend that "You can convert them!" suddenly means that the base minis, as supplied in box, are not monopose.
But it goes so well with "GW's rules are great because you can just house rule the bad parts"
Matrindur wrote: Thats actually not completely true... But as long as you are willing to cut a little bit...
So it's completely true then. They are, to quote the other post, "as monopose as monopose can get". To put it another way: If you need to start cutting away at the minis to change their poses, then they are monopose.
I don't have a problem with you trying to convert your monopose Orks to make them look different, but don't try to pretend that "You can convert them!" suddenly means that the base minis, as supplied in box, are not monopose.
Your are right with that but I also wasn't as clear as I needed to be here. There are some arms you can switch around without cutting anything so they aren't completely monopose even though the instructions don't tell you that. And if you cut a little bit you can get quite a lot of different combinations. The difference here for me at least is that I don't need to cut the connection between arm and body and greenstuff it so they fit together at all. You would just need to file off some muscle or a part of the shoulder pad so the shoulder pad fits over the arm. Of course if that doesn't count for you thats fine for me.
Also for the heads the only thing you need to cut would be the occasional earring so that shouldn't be asking for more than just cleaning off nubmarks right?
And just to make it clear of course I would like it if they had more options I just wanted so say they aren't as bad as they look at first
Matrindur wrote: Thats actually not completely true... But as long as you are willing to cut a little bit...
So it's completely true then. They are, to quote the other post, "as monopose as monopose can get". To put it another way: If you need to start cutting away at the minis to change their poses, then they are monopose.
I don't have a problem with you trying to convert your monopose Orks to make them look different, but don't try to pretend that "You can convert them!" suddenly means that the base minis, as supplied in box, are not monopose.
Your are right with that but I also wasn't as clear as I needed to be here. There are some arms you can switch around without cutting anything so they aren't completely monopose even though the instructions don't tell you that. And if you cut a little bit you can get quite a lot of different combinations. The difference here for me at least is that I don't need to cut the connection between arm and body and greenstuff it so they fit together at all. You would just need to file off some muscle or a part of the shoulder pad so the shoulder pad fits over the arm. Of course if that doesn't count for you thats fine for me.
Also for the heads the only thing you need to cut would be the occasional earring so that shouldn't be asking for more than just cleaning off nubmarks right?
So, monopose but not too hard to convert? Arms-wise, of course, it seems that anything else is a tad off the table...
But all it takes is a saw and maybe green stuff bam, you have some killer variation. That is the hobby that endlessly present on GW's social media and the media of its staff
These are just some of the articles that pop up, and are all pretty great!
Then on Warhammer Podcast, especially, conversions get mentioned every single episode - but you just need to listen to Wade and Peachy wax lyrically on these to know this is central to GW praxis in the studio and what they are suggesting to hobbyists to do.
Similarly, you can also just glance at any hobby stream on their Twitch in which conversions happen and hobbyists' conversions are featured and praised effusively.
Or you can look on Twitter at Warhammer Community or its team (Wade Pryce, Chris Peach, Adam Troke, Nick Bayton, Eddie Eccles, Louise Sugden, Ben Galler, Max Ogden, etc), or look at mini designers like Owen Patten, or follow studio heads like Phil Kelly or Ben Johnson or Stu Black, or look at other GW employees like John French. All them featuring, retweeting and praising conversions.
I think we need to be careful of this kind of complaint - that is GW is anti conversions. I think instead they want people to have out of the box the best looking mini they could have without needing to convert - but they are sure as happy for you to convert too.
revealed preference for removal of multipose miniatures in favour of monopose shows they are leaning towards less conversions, the reasons could be anything from wanting to reduce the ability of 3rd parties making parts for their kits to 3d design just being easier to do monopose as a cost saving exorcise.
is what it is, so many options out there these days for Orks that GW monopose is irrelevant to me.
So, do we have a price on the Ork combat patrol yet? Hoping it’s the same as the rest of them, which would make it a reasonable deal (comparatively speaking).
PetitionersCity wrote: But all it takes is a saw and maybe green stuff bam, you have some killer variation. That is the hobby that endlessly present on GW's social media and the media of its staff
These are just some of the articles that pop up, and are all pretty great!
Then on Warhammer Podcast, especially, conversions get mentioned every single episode - but you just need to listen to Wade and Peachy wax lyrically on these to know this is central to GW praxis in the studio and what they are suggesting to hobbyists to do.
Similarly, you can also just glance at any hobby stream on their Twitch in which conversions happen and hobbyists' conversions are featured and praised effusively.
Or you can look on Twitter at Warhammer Community or its team (Wade Pryce, Chris Peach, Adam Troke, Nick Bayton, Eddie Eccles, Louise Sugden, Ben Galler, Max Ogden, etc), or look at mini designers like Owen Patten, or follow studio heads like Phil Kelly or Ben Johnson or Stu Black, or look at other GW employees like John French. All them featuring, retweeting and praising conversions.
I think we need to be careful of this kind of complaint - that is GW is anti conversions. I think instead they want people to have out of the box the best looking mini they could have without needing to convert - but they are sure as happy for you to convert too.
I don't think anyone is claiming they're anti-conversion, simply that they don't want to have 100 boyz with 10 sets of 10 identical minis.
You can convert them, but if you use 3rd party, you can't attend their events. Likewise, the monopose kits like these new ones are far harder to convert than the older ones given how it goes together.
Almost all of the full Primaris kits are multipose, you can put any arms on any body and mix and match between the kits. SoB are almost the same, though there integrated shoulder plates and the robe sleeves limit combinations a bit. Still, most arms fit most bodies. I don't know how these orks are, but I really dislike how people use 'monopose' to mean 'torso and legs are in the same piece' That's not what it means. Skitarii aren't monopose, Necromunda gangs are not monopose.
Formosa wrote: revealed preference for removal of multipose miniatures in favour of monopose shows they are leaning towards less conversions, the reasons could be anything from wanting to reduce the ability of 3rd parties making parts for their kits to 3d design just being easier to do monopose as a cost saving exorcise.
is what it is, so many options out there these days for Orks that GW monopose is irrelevant to me.
Maybe I'm wrong, but to me the reason is quite obvious. Monopose models look better.
Especially with muscled models, muscles don't lend themselves to be reposed without also resculpting them.
My hope was simply that we had monopose with options. So if the shoulder joints are designed the same, similar to how the Goliath models are done, then you can swap arms, swap heads, etc. Still monopose, but with 10 bodies and arm / head swaps you should be able to produce a horde without clone-syndrome.
Almost all of the full Primaris kits are multipose, you can put any arms on any body and mix and match between the kits. SoB are almost the same, though there integrated shoulder plates and the robe sleeves limit combinations a bit. Still, most arms fit most bodies. I don't know how these orks are, but I really dislike how people use 'monopose' to mean 'torso and legs are in the same piece' That's not what it means. Skitarii aren't monopose, Necromunda gangs are not monopose.
I think we maybe don't have consistent terminology. In my mind, monopose means you don't have infinite adjustability on how you join an arm to a body, but you can have monopose while also having options, which is what I hoped for these Orks.
So there's 2 levels of adjustability, having options on what parts you can use, and having options on how you attach those parts. The latter half is what constitutes "monopose" in my mind, because a specific model built with specific parts will always have only 1 pose.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: Maybe I'm wrong, but to me the reason is quite obvious. Monopose models look better.
Especially with muscled models, muscles don't lend themselves to be reposed without also resculpting them.
This would be a much stronger argument if GW sculptors displayed any real grasp of muscular anatomy. As it is, most of their 'muscular' human arms look like a mass of tumors.
However, it also applies to cloth (albeit a little less) and GW seems to be better at sculpting that, and monopose in general does look better than a model designed to have simple connection points.
Almost all of the full Primaris kits are multipose, you can put any arms on any body and mix and match between the kits. SoB are almost the same, though there integrated shoulder plates and the robe sleeves limit combinations a bit. Still, most arms fit most bodies. I don't know how these orks are, but I really dislike how people use 'monopose' to mean 'torso and legs are in the same piece' That's not what it means. Skitarii aren't monopose, Necromunda gangs are not monopose.
I mean... that's not really multipose? That's multiple sets of arms for a monopose.
But of course, that's much better than nothing at all , kind of an intermediate point.
Almost all of the full Primaris kits are multipose, you can put any arms on any body and mix and match between the kits. SoB are almost the same, though there integrated shoulder plates and the robe sleeves limit combinations a bit. Still, most arms fit most bodies. I don't know how these orks are, but I really dislike how people use 'monopose' to mean 'torso and legs are in the same piece' That's not what it means. Skitarii aren't monopose, Necromunda gangs are not monopose.
If you can swap bolter to meltagun that's still monopose. Battle sisters are monopose. Same pose, different weapon. Key being it's monoPOSE.
Repentia is dual pose. Rest are mono.
Weapon option multipose makes not. Especially when it's for specific model.
Look at imperial guard commisar. You can give bolt pistol or plasma pistol but its still same POSE. It's monopose. Swappable pistol difference does not make. Pose is still same.
I mean... that's not really multipose? That's multiple sets of arms for a monopose.
But of course, that's much better than nothing at all , kind of an intermediate point.
So only way to have multipose is to have separate legs? That is absurd definition and something that has just been completely made up on this forum in last couple of years. The position or arms and head affect the pose massively. I've been assembling a lot of primaris minis, and you can get a ton of varied poses, and they tend to look much more natural than with old marines, as the legs and abdomen actually are designed to go together. And they actually have more varied leg poses than the old marines did, who mostly were stuck in the same 'standing knees slightly bent' pose.
If you can swap bolter to meltagun that's still monopose. Battle sisters are monopose. Same pose, different weapon. Key being it's monoPOSE.
Repentia is dual pose. Rest are mono.
Weapon option multipose makes not. Especially when it's for specific model.
Look at imperial guard commisar. You can give bolt pistol or plasma pistol but its still same POSE. It's monopose. Swappable pistol difference does not make. Pose is still same.
Except with SOB you can do much more than that. You can but most arms on most models. You can put Seraphim arms on basic Retributor bodies, you can put Retributor arms on the basic SoB etc.
I mean... that's not really multipose? That's multiple sets of arms for a monopose.
But of course, that's much better than nothing at all , kind of an intermediate point.
So only way to have multipose is to have separate legs? That is absurd definition and something that has just been completely made up on this forum in last couple of years. The position or arms and head affect the pose massively. I've been assembling a lot of primaris minis, and you can get a ton of varied poses, and they tend to look much more natural than with old marines, as the legs and abdomen actually are designed to go together. And they actually have more varied leg poses than the old marines did, who mostly were stuck in the same 'standing knees slightly bent' pose.
About as absurd as "you can change the arms, see, it's not monopose at all".
But, as I said, it's better than nothing. One could even say that there's a slider on poseability.
Almost all of the full Primaris kits are multipose, you can put any arms on any body and mix and match between the kits. SoB are almost the same, though there integrated shoulder plates and the robe sleeves limit combinations a bit. Still, most arms fit most bodies. I don't know how these orks are, but I really dislike how people use 'monopose' to mean 'torso and legs are in the same piece' That's not what it means. Skitarii aren't monopose, Necromunda gangs are not monopose.
Amen.
It's a really weird complaint when you consider that the previous Boyz kit (excluding he Nob) had 5 unique pairs of legs and 5 unique bodies to cover 10 models. Not only that, but all the legs are in the same "squatting on the toilet" pose with the only real variation being if the right or left foot is tilted out. All the arms are attached at the same angle with the only freedom being to tilt them up or down one a single axis. There's a much wider range of variety in the new poses. If the new kit still has the option to swap out heads / shoulder pads, or to build multiple arm sets like Bladeguard it will definitely be an improvement.
Just to toss my two cents, i personally like it best when models have a torso-legs piece, and fully interchangeable arms and heads, like the Skitarii. Feels to me like it's the best compromise between having natural looking poses, and not being completly monopose. Bonus points if diffrent kits are compatibile, like with the regular Skitarii, the cavalry and all the drivers on their various vehicles.
Whomever suggest I simply save my last big post on this: Thank you. This saves so much time.
And so...
xttz wrote: It's a really weird complaint when you consider that the previous Boyz kit (excluding he Nob) had 5 unique pairs of legs and 5 unique bodies to cover 10 models. Not only that, but all the legs are in the same "squatting on the toilet" pose with the only real variation being if the right or left foot is tilted out. All the arms are attached at the same angle with the only freedom being to tilt them up or down one a single axis. There's a much wider range of variety in the new poses. If the new kit still has the option to swap out heads / shoulder pads, or to build multiple arm sets like Bladeguard it will definitely be an improvement.
You don't get a lot of variation out of a box of Cadians, or a Marine Tactical squad. This is true. You get a few different legs, and a few different arm sets and so on. Much like the current Ork Boyz kit. But what you get are miniatures that blend into one another. They're not in duplicated dynamic heroic poses though, so they don't look weird in multiples. And you could use whatever options were in the box on any model within that box - that's a major point! That's what so many of us have been saying for so long now.
GW's new kits don't do that. They're jigsaw puzzles where models only go together one way, where have very little (if any at all) posability, and their weapon options are fixed (Model X takes only Weapons Y and Z, so if you want Y and Z, you can't have that without either converting them, or getting another box).
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Just to toss my two cents, i personally like it best when models have a torso-legs piece, and fully interchangeable arms and heads, like the Skitarii. Feels to me like it's the best compromise between having natural looking poses, and not being completly monopose. Bonus points if diffrent kits are compatibile, like with the regular Skitarii, the cavalry and all the drivers on their various vehicles.
I agree. That is exactly how Frostgrave/Fireforge/WGA minis are, and they are very popular being able to be interchangeable between various kits. I had built Fireforge zombies before and every mini looks different with just different head and arms put on 6 versions of available torso-leg piece.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Whomever suggest I simply save my last big post on this: Thank you. This saves so much time.
Saves time to do what exactly? Continue your endless crusade against monopose models? I am not sure what you are trying to achieve by repeating the same complaints over and over.
Don't bother calculating at which step of denial I am because I don't care. In fact, no-one does.
And for the record, I agree with many of your concerns.
do we have sprue pics of the new boyz? Unfortunately, I'm inclined to agree that this may end up being a Chaos Warriors situation and this fully monopose situation where we get only 10 new ork boyz solely in the combat patrol box with mixed shoota/slugga weapon loadout and no new ork boyz standalone box, or it could be a sisters of battle/chaos space marine situation where there's a monopose version of the kit unique to the start collecting box and a more poseable version of the kit to come later in a standalone box.
Hard to say where we're at right now, but if they really are updating the packaging of the old ork boyz kit, I'm caught between being sad and not sad.
Sad, because combat patrol box boyz are going to look incredibly silly next to the boyz you get to fill out your army (if you were crazy enough to actually want more boyz than what comes in the patrol, lol) and not sad because it means the old kit will stay available with its full compatibility with old models like lootas warbikers etc.
Literally all they had to do was upsize the models in the torso and legs only, and they could have kept the exact same arm and head style they had before to maintain the same kit swappability they had before. Stupidly easy stuff.they even kept the style of shirts that orks have always worn that make the common ork arm join less visible - but they removed the customizability that that silly style of shirt allowed for lol. You can even see the classic "Join hiding shoulder pad" and "join hiding shoulder strap" on several of the boyz, lol.
I'm the #1 guy that comes out in favor of new style kits but if there's no sisters of battle/csm style full box multipose kit coming, this is incredibly sad and low effort. They had such an easy slam dunk here if they'd just updated only the torsos and legs and kept the old arm and head join.
Almost all of the full Primaris kits are multipose, you can put any arms on any body and mix and match between the kits. SoB are almost the same, though there integrated shoulder plates and the robe sleeves limit combinations a bit. Still, most arms fit most bodies. I don't know how these orks are, but I really dislike how people use 'monopose' to mean 'torso and legs are in the same piece' That's not what it means. Skitarii aren't monopose, Necromunda gangs are not monopose.
If you can swap bolter to meltagun that's still monopose. Battle sisters are monopose. Same pose, different weapon. Key being it's monoPOSE.
Repentia is dual pose. Rest are mono.
Weapon option multipose makes not. Especially when it's for specific model.
Look at imperial guard commisar. You can give bolt pistol or plasma pistol but its still same POSE. It's monopose. Swappable pistol difference does not make. Pose is still same.
But Skitarii, Sisters, and Necromunda gangs are more than just weapon swaps apart.
But sure, if I can't pose every single joint in my model, are we saying that's monopose? So all my old Tactical Marines, squatting down with their fixed leg positions, aren't multipose, because I can't straighten every leg, have every knee angled exactly where I want it, have every finger extended on those hands?
Could you show me a true multipose model, where every part of them is poseable?
Jidmah wrote: Really? Essentially all releases for the last four year or so have been that way.
For basic Troop choices? Nah chief.
Basically all the Primaris stuff, Genestealer Cultists, Skitarii, the plastic Death Korps, Chaos Marines, the new Sisters, hell even special units like Incubi all have much greater ability for head/weapon swaps than these new Boyz. Even the more recent Ork and Orruk kits still follow the classic Ork head swap gimmick.
Right. This is actually monopose. Can you tell the difference between this and Primaris/SoB/Skitarii/Necromunda kits? Stop calling everything monopose, words mean things.
Crimson wrote: Right. This is actually monopose. Can you tell the difference between this and Primaris/SoB/Skitarii/Necromunda kits? Stop calling everything monopose, words mean things.
Monopose is 1 pose. Hint is in the name even if you don't grasp it.
Crimson wrote:Right. This is actually monopose. Can you tell the difference between this and Primaris/SoB/Skitarii/Necromunda kits? Stop calling everything monopose, words mean things.
Agreed - these actually *are* monopose, not just "torso and legs connected", which isn't monopose.
tneva82 wrote:
Crimson wrote: Right. This is actually monopose. Can you tell the difference between this and Primaris/SoB/Skitarii/Necromunda kits? Stop calling everything monopose, words mean things.
Monopose is 1 pose. Hint is in the name even if you don't grasp it.
Great, so we can agree that Primaris, Sisters, Skitarii and Necromunda models aren't monopose? Lovely.
Almost all of the full Primaris kits are multipose, you can put any arms on any body and mix and match between the kits. SoB are almost the same, though there integrated shoulder plates and the robe sleeves limit combinations a bit. Still, most arms fit most bodies. I don't know how these orks are, but I really dislike how people use 'monopose' to mean 'torso and legs are in the same piece' That's not what it means. Skitarii aren't monopose, Necromunda gangs are not monopose.
If you can swap bolter to meltagun that's still monopose. Battle sisters are monopose. Same pose, different weapon. Key being it's monoPOSE.
Repentia is dual pose. Rest are mono.
Weapon option multipose makes not. Especially when it's for specific model.
Look at imperial guard commisar. You can give bolt pistol or plasma pistol but its still same POSE. It's monopose. Swappable pistol difference does not make. Pose is still same.
But Skitarii, Sisters, and Necromunda gangs are more than just weapon swaps apart.
But sure, if I can't pose every single joint in my model, are we saying that's monopose? So all my old Tactical Marines, squatting down with their fixed leg positions, aren't multipose, because I can't straighten every leg, have every knee angled exactly where I want it, have every finger extended on those hands?
Could you show me a true multipose model, where every part of them is poseable?
...I can but it's a dire avenger I made in blender XD
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: I was meaning if you want a mob of 30. You’ll end up with 27 Boyz, 1 Nob and 2 spare Nobz.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Man this thread is moving fast! Should probably quote peeps.
Aye, you are also locked into taking heavy weapons as well. No idea how many of those you are permitted to take in bigger units.
At least the current Boyz kit avoids the Nob issue (fnarr fnarr) and heavy weapons. Really myopic from GW. Guess the sculptors were handcuffed into fitting it all onto just the 2 sprues so major compromises had to be made. A shame.
Jidmah wrote: Really? Essentially all releases for the last four year or so have been that way.
For basic Troop choices? Nah chief.
Basically all the Primaris stuff, Genestealer Cultists, Skitarii, the plastic Death Korps, Chaos Marines, the new Sisters, hell even special units like Incubi all have much greater ability for head/weapon swaps than these new Boyz. Even the more recent Ork and Orruk kits still follow the classic Ork head swap gimmick.
Well, at least the *entire* DG range is like this.
Well, I'm glad I have a bunch of unbuilt sets of the old Boyz kits, mixing them into squads with the nu-Boyz is going to be essential in order to build out squads with consistent loadouts if they are following the path of the Chaos Space Marines kit and not giving you the parts to build out full squads with consistent weapons.
Jidmah wrote: Really? Essentially all releases for the last four year or so have been that way.
For basic Troop choices? Nah chief.
Basically all the Primaris stuff, Genestealer Cultists, Skitarii, the plastic Death Korps, Chaos Marines, the new Sisters, hell even special units like Incubi all have much greater ability for head/weapon swaps than these new Boyz. Even the more recent Ork and Orruk kits still follow the classic Ork head swap gimmick.
Well, at least the *entire* DG range is like this.
even that's not that bad. For some reason, since the buggy release GW has believed ork players want the LEAST customizability of LITERALLY ANY other army.
even DG have dual-pose kits as opposed to 100% mono-pose.
Jidmah wrote: Really? Essentially all releases for the last four year or so have been that way.
For basic Troop choices? Nah chief. Basically all the Primaris stuff, Genestealer Cultists, Skitarii, the plastic Death Korps, Chaos Marines, the new Sisters, hell even special units like Incubi all have much greater ability for head/weapon swaps than these new Boyz. Even the more recent Ork and Orruk kits still follow the classic Ork head swap gimmick.
Well, at least the *entire* DG range is like this.
Perhaps, but that's not "essentially all releases for the last four years", is it?
There's nothing wrong with pointing out *actual* monopose builds and how that can make up large portions of specific armies (such as in the case of Death Guard and seemingly now Orks, which *is* an issue, and a massive disappointment), but "all releases for the last four years" just ain't true.
CSM kit have separate body /arm/pack/head allowing you to mix them up with marine or old CSM bits. This new Ork kit can't do that, unless you chop them up.
Albertorius wrote: Well, I hope people like them, because they're gonna see them a lot.
ListenToMeWarriors wrote: Not being able to create a 20 Ork mob of either just shootas or choppas and sluggas straight out of the box is a baffling choice.
mortar_crew wrote: And worst of it all, only 3 (!?) shootas for 10 boyz?!
I don't want to actually be right about this all the time, but sadly GW can't help making my fears a constant reality.
So, to put this to bed once and for all:
People here were adamant about getting new Boyz. They thought it would be the best thing ever. I said from the very start to be careful what you wish for. I was right. Again.
the_scotsman wrote: even that's not that bad. For some reason, since the buggy release GW has believed ork players want the LEAST customizability of LITERALLY ANY other army.
even DG have dual-pose kits as opposed to 100% mono-pose.
Dual pose kits? Most are just as posable as the nob and the heavy weapon boy from that sprue
Some have a choice of helmeted and non-helmeted heads though.
Personally, I'm just laughing at all the people who have wished for new boyz despite all the writing on the wall, telling me repeatedly how it wont be this way. I already have over 200 boyz, I won't be buying a single one of those.
Oh that much we know, at least for the Beastsnagga Boyz - they're on pre-order this Saturday after all - but the inclusion of 11 minis is the interesting part. I guess they're treating it like the Ork Boyz kit, in that you might want larger units, so buying 3 boxes of 10 nets you not enough boyz, and too many Nobz... but if there's 11, then you get enough Boyz for larger units, and the extra Nobz are gravy.
chaos0xomega wrote: Well, I'm glad I have a bunch of unbuilt sets of the old Boyz kits, mixing them into squads with the nu-Boyz is going to be essential in order to build out squads with consistent loadouts if they are following the path of the Chaos Space Marines kit and not giving you the parts to build out full squads with consistent weapons.
Whilst doing my big reorganisation I found a few hardly touched sprues of Ork Boyz plus three more boxes still in shrink-wrap. Thank Gork/Mork.
Personally, I'm just laughing at all the people who have wished for new boyz despite all the writing on the wall, telling me repeatedly how it wont be this way.
The new Kommando Ork is pretty good. Not all new kits are "budget-saving" bad.
Personally, I'm just laughing at all the people who have wished for new boyz despite all the writing on the wall, telling me repeatedly how it wont be this way.
The new Kommando Ork is pretty good. Not all new kits are "budget-saving" bad.
My box hasn't arrived yet, but the sprues don't look like they allow for a lot of variance outside of weapon options and heads.
It's also an extra sprue over those boyz, and I'm very sure GW will make you pay for that.
The old Boyz kit isn't going away and these new models look awesome. I'm excited to add these to my mob to splash in some variety, don't see what the issue is if the multi-part kit remains available.
Kanluwen wrote: The Combat Patrol comes with 2 sets of those two sprues, allowing you to build 18 Boyz and 2 Nobs.
Interestingly the Beastsnagga Boyz appear to be 11 minis, bit like the actual Boyz kit. I wonder why that is?
I think it's more like ten and a half. The nob also builds into a boy if you want.
This is the case. 10 snaggas with a nob/boy option. The thumper gun is also an option.
H.B.M.C. wrote:Oh that much we know, at least for the Beastsnagga Boyz - they're on pre-order this Saturday after all - but the inclusion of 11 minis is the interesting part. I guess they're treating it like the Ork Boyz kit, in that you might want larger units, so buying 3 boxes of 10 nets you not enough boyz, and too many Nobz... but if there's 11, then you get enough Boyz for larger units, and the extra Nobz are gravy.
Thats correct only 10 Beast Snaggas, for anyone thinking there would be 11 because the sunday preview showed 11 they fethed up here as the bottom right one is actually the alternative Boy build of the Nob
My box hasn't arrived yet, but the sprues don't look like they allow for a lot of variance outside of weapon options and heads.
It's also an extra sprue over those boyz, and I'm very sure GW will make you pay for that.
You won't pay noticeably less (either the same price, or at best 5-10USD less for 1 (or 2) less sprue) with the "Budget-saving" kit either. If anything the 3 sprue kit infantry usually get better pricing, only losing to "double up" 2-sprue kit, which is rare.
Crimson wrote: Right. This is actually monopose. Can you tell the difference between this and Primaris/SoB/Skitarii/Necromunda kits? Stop calling everything monopose, words mean things.
Monopose is 1 pose. Hint is in the name even if you don't grasp it.
I grasp that just fine. And that’s why I’m perplexed why you and some others insist calling models that clearly do not fit that definition ‘monopose’.
I don't mind that new Boyz are Easy-to-build and monopose unless they replace the old kit completely. In fact, I think all armies should have an Easy-to-build starter set supported by full range of multi-option plastics.
Chopstick wrote: CSM kit have separate body /arm/pack/head allowing you to mix them up with marine or old CSM bits. This new Ork kit can't do that, unless you chop them up.
Not necessarily true.
It looks like there's some wiggle room for swaps on heads/weapons between certain bodies in the kit.
Spoiler:
As an example, the 3 Shoota Boyz? They all have their shoota arm(part #24, 12, 28) separate from the 'bracing' arm with two of them having a head attached(parts #11 and 27) while one of the heads directly attaches to the 'bracing' arm(parts #22+23).
All three do not seem to need to utilize the body directly associated with them, just that pool of bodies which have the head+neck already molded.
The last two Slugga+Choppa Boyz(parts #6,7,8 and parts #13,14,15) seem to be interchangeable between themselves while the other 4/6 and the Big Shoota/Rokkit Launcher look to have at least heads swappable between them.
As an interesting little sidenote, does anyone think this might be a sign of a new batch of Easy to Build 'filler' sculpts to come out for the various factions?
As an interesting little sidenote, does anyone think this might be a sign of a new batch of Easy to Build 'filler' sculpts to come out for the various factions?
I hope so. Monopose or not, new models are always welcome.
I'm very forgiving and laidback with GW but this is the worst kit yet in terms of how the monopose/build nature is going to effect building and playing.
This kit is terrible, what the hell are they thinking. Only 3 Shoota Boyz? Onlt 6 Slugga Boyz?
Even by GW's modern standards this is pretty bad, like, even the Kommandos and Krieg models are better than this, they at least have some swappable options.
The nubs also make them look like push fit kits. They look far worse than the Beast Snaggas.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Just realised that these new Boyz are pushfit. They're got base-pegs and other similar protrusions.
Yeah if they are just an Easy to Build variation thats more understandable but I just had a look online at the Commando sprues and they seem way better - not an Ork collector myself but this new Ork set seems incredibly limited for a core box. An ETB set makes a lot more sense and they've done it [although with more mixed sprues] for other factions like sisters and StD in AoS.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: By Mork, the heads fused to arms and shoulderpads, it's even worse than i could imagine.
Really? Essentially all releases for the last four year or so have been that way.
Yeah nah, they literally just released the Krieg and Kommandos, and looking even at the Beast Snaggas they don't have heads fused to arms/shoulders or nub holes literally going through their chest like these models do.
This is a step down even compared to many recent releases. They look like starter-set models, not regular core units.
This boyz kit is not even monopose. Is easy to build.
I never played 40k orks but I played Fantasy greenskins. Chopping all the bitz of the sprues and separating them in little piles (heads, torsos, etc...) and just miximg then on the fly was the most fun I had building anything in this hobby.
This new boyz look great. Much better than the old ones. But I'm sad that this is, again, a "Chaos Warrior" thing. A monopose, extremely cool looking and easy to build remake of a troop unit that doesn't even exist outside a starter box. I just cannot understand the reasoning behind this.
This is pretty typical. It's been this way - in 40k at least - since the Death Guard release. Sorry you don't see that.
WAKE UP SHEEPLE! Every kit gw comes out with is equivalently monopose! ignore the fact that all ten kommandos in the new kill team box can either be built with their special weapon option or a choppa/slugga! GW only ever does full monopose! There is no such thing as a kit with two intended poses and a kit with swappable heads and arms, the sisters of battle kit does not exist!
H.B.M.C. wrote:This is pretty typical. It's been this way - in 40k at least - since the Death Guard release. Sorry you don't see that.
What is typical is to have monopose in some combobox and multipose later as a separate kit. Happened with many different sorts of Primaris marines, happened with CSM, happened with SoB. Granted, it doesn’t always happen and as GW obviously focuses more on Imperials than Xenos so it might not happen with orks.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Dare we hope this is just a simplified option for this box, and we’re getting a proper one for general retail?
I am just about 50-50 riding the ol' line at this point. I want to believe that GW doesn' thave their head far enough up their butt to not realize that people who play freaking ORKS want to customize their miniatures, but it's possible that they've gotten up the minor and major intestine at this point and the stomach acid might be affecting their brain enough that theyre actually going with a Chaos Warriors style release, where a new player gets their mono-pose boyz kit, they build it, and then they buy a second boyz kit to build out the squad and go
"What.....what the hell? Why are these half the size??"
This is pretty typical. It's been this way - in 40k at least - since the Death Guard release. Sorry you don't see that.
WAKE UP SHEEPLE! Every kit gw comes out with is equivalently monopose! ignore the fact that all ten kommandos in the new kill team box can either be built with their special weapon option or a choppa/slugga! GW only ever does full monopose! There is no such thing as a kit with two intended poses and a kit with swappable heads and arms, the sisters of battle kit does not exist!
Yeah, is a little tiresome at this point.
GW produces enough true monopose kits to critizise them about them, you don't need to crap in the multipose or better kits they also do. The problem is that back in the day GW had a clear design philosophy behind their model lines. Now is basically a lottery. Will you receive a Rock Troll, Krieg, Sisters of Battle, Primaris Intercessors style release? A full monopose one? WHO KNOWS!
That's not something they'd have just mocked up themselves in photoshop, it'll have come officially from GW. And if GW have bothered to do that it means the old Boyz might not actually be going away.
GW could plausibly plan to keep both kits going side-by-side by releasing new Boyz separately under the ETB label, while the old kit is still available to cover a wider range of options. That explains why the codex entry doesn't now say "unit consists of 3 shoota boyz and 6 slugga boyz".
the thing that kills me always with this kind of thing is that I can see the good, sensible business strategy in the ruins of the dump GW took on the project. It's like a monkey got fifteen letters into hamlet and then smeared gak all over the paper and typewriter.
Putting a monopose kit in the starter box is actually NOT a bad idea, business-wise, for GW. it cuts down on the number of people who are going to buy multiple copies of the box to get a discount and it cuts down on the people who will 'pull a black reach' and just go to ebay to buy the starter box version instead of buying the full kit.
Then, it would just be so, so easy to release a new boyz kit where you update the torso and legs with the new proportions, while keeping the heads and arms roughly the same size with the same joins so that theyre still fully compatible with the existing range.
That allows you to include the kind of zany, highly unique, dynamic poses in the starter box, like the sister with the flamer and the flaming corpse, because you assume someone who's going to collect the army is going to buy the bundle box ONCE, and then the multipart kit multiple times, and you get the best of both worlds - one in ten of your orks doesn't have to be kick-flipping off a dynamic rock, and you get to have one guy doing a cool thing you can't make out of the standard kit in your army.
They got the formula...allllmost perfect with Sisters (still a couple of overly-unique poses in that kit tbh that could have been in the starter box) but since then theyve flubbed it with CSM Chaos Warriors and now, apparently, orks.
That's not something they'd have just mocked up themselves in photoshop, it'll have come officially from GW. And if GW have bothered to do that it means the old Boyz might not actually be going away.
GW could plausibly plan to keep both kits going side-by-side by releasing new Boyz separately under the ETB label, while the old kit is still available to cover a wider range of options. That explains why the codex entry doesn't now say "unit consists of 3 shoota boyz and 6 slugga boyz".
The old Boyz are staying for now at least, they have been repackaged.
Galas wrote: This boyz kit is not even monopose. Is easy to build.
Some would say easy to build is a subset of monopose.
Yeah but, normally monopose at least brings stuff like deathguard proper kits, multiple heads, some weapon choices, etc... Easy to Build are kits buildable without glue, with 0 options (like the old proper and cheaper ETB, great kits, or the scam that is the necron destroyers or primaris outriders). I know this one has options for the nobz and the heavy weapon but... as I said, is basically the Slaves to Darkness SC! over again.
They got the formula...allllmost perfect with Sisters (still a couple of overly-unique poses in that kit tbh that could have been in the starter box) but since then theyve flubbed it with CSM Chaos Warriors and now, apparently, orks.
I wouldn't say so. I mean, the CSM kit has his problems (the lack of full bolters and chainsword options) don't get me wrong but just look at his sprues compared with this ork boyz ones. And the CSM kit is fully compatible with the Havoc Kit.
the_scotsman wrote: the thing that kills me always with this kind of thing is that I can see the good, sensible business strategy in the ruins of the dump GW took on the project. It's like a monkey got fifteen letters into hamlet and then smeared gak all over the paper and typewriter.
Putting a monopose kit in the starter box is actually NOT a bad idea, business-wise, for GW. it cuts down on the number of people who are going to buy multiple copies of the box to get a discount and it cuts down on the people who will 'pull a black reach' and just go to ebay to buy the starter box version instead of buying the full kit.
Then, it would just be so, so easy to release a new boyz kit where you update the torso and legs with the new proportions, while keeping the heads and arms roughly the same size with the same joins so that theyre still fully compatible with the existing range.
That allows you to include the kind of zany, highly unique, dynamic poses in the starter box, like the sister with the flamer and the flaming corpse, because you assume someone who's going to collect the army is going to buy the bundle box ONCE, and then the multipart kit multiple times, and you get the best of both worlds - one in ten of your orks doesn't have to be kick-flipping off a dynamic rock, and you get to have one guy doing a cool thing you can't make out of the standard kit in your army.
They got the formula...allllmost perfect with Sisters (still a couple of overly-unique poses in that kit tbh that could have been in the starter box) but since then theyve flubbed it with CSM Chaos Warriors and now, apparently, orks.
Orks really stick out when ETB or mono-pose because they are so characterful, especially with no helmets, etc. It's easier to get away with it with Necrons, Space Marines, CSM or Sistsers because of the rank and file nature and due to the helmets.
Seems like both crowds can be happy now! Folks that wanted new boyz got ‘em! Folks that thought the old kit was the best thing ever! Get to keep them! Best of both worlds.
Galas wrote: This boyz kit is not even monopose. Is easy to build.
Some would say easy to build is a subset of monopose.
I mean, all easy to build kits are without a doubt monopose, no? But not all monopose kits are easy to build.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dread Master wrote: Seems like both crowds can be happy now! Folks that wanted new boyz got ‘em! Folks that thought the old kit was the best thing ever! Get to keep them! Best of both worlds.
When people said they wanted new Boyz i highly doubt this is what they wanted.
Seems like a really bizarre decision to model the new ork boyz like this, even if they ARE currently limited to the Combat Patrol box and are easy to build/monopose/whatever you want to call it. One of the big positives of the current/old ork boyz kit has always been that you can build a full 10 slugga boys or a full 10 shoota boys. Now with these new ones you'd need four(?) full squads in order to just build ONE 10-man shoota boy squad?
I guess they look cool, but what a huge miss by the design team.
Ok so this is why the old Boyz kit is still around. These are just ETB Boyz.
So if you want a full Shoota Boyz mob you're supposed to also buy one of the old kits, right?
Good thing Shoota Boyz completely suck in the new codex so no one will have to.
Very strange move from GW. It feels like the new kit is missing a sprue. I get that you sometimes get a sprue budget and need to make do, but this is not even a full kit? It won't build a full mob. Or will they come 20 in a box, so you can build 12 Slugga Boyz, 6 Shoota Boyz and 2 Nobz. At least then you get a full mob but then you have 7 useless models collecting dust.
I dunno, I mean I got plenty of leftover Sluggas and arms so there really is no problem for me (on the other hand I already have all the Boyz I need), but I wonder what new players will think? It's such a strange decision.
WAKE UP SHEEPLE! Every kit gw comes out with is equivalently monopose! ignore the fact that all ten kommandos in the new kill team box can either be built with their special weapon option or a choppa/slugga! GW only ever does full monopose! There is no such thing as a kit with two intended poses and a kit with swappable heads and arms, the sisters of battle kit does not exist!
The sister of battle? Yes. Another monlpose kit.
Same pose is still same pose with different weapon. MonoPOSE means one pose. Not monoweapon.
I'm cool with the old ork boyz staying around. These new ones are...ehh. The old boys kit has aged pretty well, much better than eldar guardians and some of the other old kits in 40k.
This new kit even has heads attached to the shoulders. Probably best to look at it as a booster box to add more variety to your existing army.
Three full squad boxes of newBoyz is still pretty bad though, and God help you if you, for whatever reason, wanted 20 or 30 boy mobs of shootas. Nevermind the required Nob build, so technically you're only getting 9 boyz per squad in the first place.
Three full squad boxes of newBoyz is still pretty bad though, and God help you if you, for whatever reason, wanted 20 or 30 boy mobs of shootas. Nevermind the required Nob build, so technically you're only getting 9 boyz per squad in the first place.
For a single 30 boy mob of Shootas, you need 8 boxes if you want to include 3 Big Shootas. If you want a 30 boy mob of 29 Shoota boyz and a Nob, you need 10 boxes.
WAKE UP SHEEPLE! Every kit gw comes out with is equivalently monopose! ignore the fact that all ten kommandos in the new kill team box can either be built with their special weapon option or a choppa/slugga! GW only ever does full monopose! There is no such thing as a kit with two intended poses and a kit with swappable heads and arms, the sisters of battle kit does not exist!
The sister of battle? Yes. Another monlpose kit.
Same pose is still same pose with different weapon. MonoPOSE means one pose. Not monoweapon.
....yeah, a model either holding a heavy flamer in two hands running forward is certainly posed exactly the same as a model holding a bolter in one arm and pointing with the other.
By your definition, literally every kit GW has ever made has been monopose. Ork Warbikers? Monopose, every model can only be posed riding on the warbike. Space Marine Tactical Squad? Monopose, models have to be standing, can't be running or kneeling or jumping. Drukhari Kabalite Warriors? Monopose, again, have to be standing. Wyches? Monopose, have to be running and 1/10 models has to be standing.
dan2026 wrote: This makes me terrified for what they might do for a potential Eldar range refresh.
The new Howling Banshee kit is pose-limited, but at the very least you can create various types of motion by swapping which arms you attach to which model and which hair goes on each model. They're limited and it's frustrating as hell to pay as much for them as for a box of massively superior Harlequins, where they managed to fit not just a full 6 swords+pistols and sergeant specific parts but ALSO many different head options and ALSO a full equipment swap and ALSO 6 special weapons and they cost the same.
But if a new codex comes out and theyre no longer so trash that fielding 20 howling banshees might be in the realm of possibility for a sane person, I might pick up a box. For now, theyre not, so I won't cus I've already got 15 of various metal sculpts XD
Automatically Appended Next Post: Overall the way I see it:
GW's got three ways they can go here
Best Case: 2-3 months down the line we get "The Real Ork Boyz Kit" and it turns out to be a Sister of Battle/Genestealer Cultist/Deathwatch/Space Marine/Chaos Space Marine situation where you've got an at least somewhat cutomizable kit with unique poses from the monopose kit.
Bad Case 1, looks to be how it's going now: GW just never releases new boyz but keeps selling the old ones, ala Chaos Warriors
Bad Case 2: We get Necron'd, the new monopose kit is the new kit have fun kids.
The more I've been thinking on it the more weird this whole thing is. Necrons got both weapon options in their Warrior boxes. Why would Orks not?
I imagine probably because the "new" Boyz aren't actually meant as a replacement to the regular kit, and just an EtB kit that isn't very good, forcing you to buy more regular Boyz instead of just a lot of the new ones.
I don't know - the chaos space marine box stood out to me as a 'why would you do this?' thing when I built them recently.
why would you:
1) choose to make 10 very slightly different and distinct chest plates, when allowing for swappable chest plates would effectively allow you to make the dynamic poses you wanted to have without having to deal with the old classic waist ball joint looks wonky issues?
2) choose to have the only way a model can legally hold a rocket launcher also have them sticking a knife out at an odd angle, rather than the expected 'holding the rocket launcher ready to fire it' pose that would probably make nearly-identical rocket launcher troopers blend in with each other just fine?
3) go for almost all two-handed ranged weapon poses when deathwatch-style one handed poses would allow for dynamic posing with much easier intra-kit customization?
4) fuse just a COUPLE shoulder pads strategically to random arms for no reason when you had plenty of space for separated shoulder pads?
Just bizarre - especially when you KNOW that this is a basic troop kit and, presumably, you WANT players to be buying multiples to fill out the basic detachment slots in their army. you could take the exact same cad designs and easily, easily recut them to have almost 100% more possible permutations from the same kit, even keeping all the bits the same. just a couple more weapons cut at the wrist, just a couple chest plates tweaked to make them a universal join, just a couple shoulder joints shaved to be perfectly flat - what's the gain here? Why design the kit such that I as a consumer am even a little incentivized to buy it once, and then go third party for all the rest of my CSM?
The more I've been thinking on it the more weird this whole thing is. Necrons got both weapon options in their Warrior boxes. Why would Orks not?
I imagine probably because the "new" Boyz aren't actually meant as a replacement to the regular kit, and just an EtB kit that isn't very good, forcing you to buy more regular Boyz instead of just a lot of the new ones.
It's planned obsolescence. They know that they will have a new book out in a year after this one, so they are holding back a kit to replace the old boyz so they can release that alongside the new book. Why release all the models and hope people buy a new book later with no new models. Terrible thought I know.
Kanluwen wrote: Best Case 2:
There's Easy to Build "booster" sprues coming, with 3 Slugga+Choppa Boyz and 6 Shoota Boyz.
The more I've been thinking on it the more weird this whole thing is. Necrons got both weapon options in their Warrior boxes. Why would Orks not?
I don't know what the Necrons are like, but one thing is Orks are physically large, so take up more sprue space and will end up with less options. With the way GW currently make models (favouring aesthetics over fitting lots of options on sprues) we would have been better off if they'd made 2 kits, one for Slugga Boyz and another for Shoota Boyz.
But the current option is just terrible, if you want a unit of Shoota Boyz you need to buy multiples and are left with only 3 sculpts, so a super-clone-man army.
That's why I think there's a possibility we'll get another Boyz kit, this one is even worse than the Snaggas, or the Kommandos, or the Krieg. I know there's whiners who will keep saying this was inevitable, but really this is worse than GW's recent kits by a large margin, so maybe we'll get something a bit more versatile later, I hope at least.
The DG Blight-hauler is the only ETB kit currently on sale for 40k, so it's making me wonder if they're planning on bringing back some of the others (like the Redemptor) and reboot that range. Deffkoptas and the Warboss could be ETB too, given the limited datasheet options.
It'll be interesting to see if any of the BT stuff is push-fit.
The more I've been thinking on it the more weird this whole thing is. Necrons got both weapon options in their Warrior boxes. Why would Orks not?
Both Necron weapons share one of the arms - Orks would require two complete sets of arms per ork; and heaven forbid that GW should ever just include another sprue in the kit...
Tradition. CSM squads were like that since 2002 or so when they got their first modern kit.
That’s not my recollection from when I ran Iron Warriors? Granted that’s a long time ago so I may well be wrong. Back when quite inexplicably they came in a box of 8.
Tradition. CSM squads were like that since 2002 or so when they got their first modern kit.
That’s not my recollection from when I ran Iron Warriors? Granted that’s a long time ago so I may well be wrong. Back when quite inexplicably they came in a box of 8.
Tradition. CSM squads were like that since 2002 or so when they got their first modern kit.
That’s not my recollection from when I ran Iron Warriors? Granted that’s a long time ago so I may well be wrong. Back when quite inexplicably they came in a box of 8.
Some of the legion conversion packs had metal boltguns and boltgun arms so the IW one might have made it up to 8?
I had 1k Sons and that kit definitely had two metal boltguns and related arms as there were only 6 in the plastic kit and all 8 rubricae needed boltguns.
Tradition. CSM squads were like that since 2002 or so when they got their first modern kit.
That’s not my recollection from when I ran Iron Warriors? Granted that’s a long time ago so I may well be wrong. Back when quite inexplicably they came in a box of 8.
Each sprue of 4 dudes had 3 bolters and 2 BP+CCW
Rules wise, was that also a time we could armed a Chaos Marine with all three weapons?
I feel like we're going to get old boyz sticking around for a while.
GW did something similar with slaves to darkness start collecting. You get fancy new models, but they've got limited, limited options. Meanwhile, old knights and warriors continue to be sold; the fancy modern models are locked behind an expensive box
Tradition. CSM squads were like that since 2002 or so when they got their first modern kit.
That’s not my recollection from when I ran Iron Warriors? Granted that’s a long time ago so I may well be wrong. Back when quite inexplicably they came in a box of 8.
Each sprue of 4 dudes had 3 bolters and 2 BP+CCW
Rules wise, was that also a time we could armed a Chaos Marine with all three weapons?
Nope - at the time of that kit's release, CSM were armed with a bolter or a BP alongside their CCW. The "each CSM has a bolter, BP and CCW" era came in the 4th edition codex.
"The real heart of the kit is a brand new set of Ork Boyz, with a familiar but updated look. You get a whopping 20 of them, with enough options to make sure none of them look the same."
Looking forward to seeing if this is true or if GW will edit the article
dan2026 wrote: This makes me terrified for what they might do for a potential Eldar range refresh.
Dark Eldar should make you terrified for Craftworlds: not do any updates beyond one special character that didn't need it.
Eldar don't have much in the way of options as is, a kit like this wouldn't really be particularly bad for eldar, pretty much every member of a squad type is, by design, in the same helmet and armor.
GaroRobe wrote: "The real heart of the kit is a brand new set of Ork Boyz, with a familiar but updated look. You get a whopping 20 of them, with enough options to make sure none of them look the same."
Looking forward to seeing if this is true or if GW will edit the article
I think they meant that their monopose models will each look unique, not that it's impossible to have a unit of all shootas or all sluggas.
What slays me about all of this is that there is no way it was not intentional. GW has done full unit load outs in kits in the past and they know that people want options. But then they come out with sets like this that feel like they're messing with their fan base.
Now I can understand all the pro-GW people loving the games themselves or the universes. I can even get behind the idea that on the whole the quality of their sculpting itself and the range of units offered in plastic is fantastic. But how do you defend something like this? What is the good angle on not actually being able to equip a unit with a load out after buying 2 sets of guys?
dan2026 wrote: This makes me terrified for what they might do for a potential Eldar range refresh.
Dark Eldar should make you terrified for Craftworlds: not do any updates beyond one special character that didn't need it.
Eldar don't have much in the way of options as is, a kit like this wouldn't really be particularly bad for eldar, pretty much every member of a squad type is, by design, in the same helmet and armor.
Dark Eldar are honestly in decent shape model wise. The only model I would consider necessary that was missed would be grotesques, which would have been great as a box of 3 with various options. But besides that, all that needs swapping over is the beastmaster with critters, and court of the archon, though urghuls already exist in plastic.
Eldar need a lot. 6 aspects with exarchs, 6 Phoenix lords. Falcon/wave serpent kit could really use a remaster and refinement like the russ and chimera kit did, keep it compatible with the fire prism sprue though. Vyper should be redone to be the craft world take on the venom/skyweaver chassis. Avatar needs a proper plastic kit, maybe option of spear, sword, and axe. Guardian kit would be really useful, nearly every other basic infantry squad has been redone at this point. Merge the storm and black guardians in and maybe parts to make a warlock. Rangers seem like a logical kill team release.
They could even do an ork style combat patrol with new kits for eldar, say 10 new guardians, a new falcon/wave serpent, a heavy weapon emplacements, 3 jetbikes, and a new autarch on bike.
Best Case: 2-3 months down the line we get "The Real Ork Boyz Kit" and it turns out to be a Sister of Battle/Genestealer Cultist/Deathwatch/Space Marine/Chaos Space Marine situation where you've got an at least somewhat cutomizable kit with unique poses from the monopose kit.
Best Case 2, looks to be how it's going now: GW just never releases new boyz but keeps selling the old ones, ala Chaos Warriors
Bad Case: We get Necron'd, the new monopose kit is the new kit have fun kids.
I think this is one of those rare Dakka moments where despite everyone having differing stances and opinions on some of the terminology, everyone is united in a "uhh what did they do that for?" moment.
It's an incredibly weird choice by GW, as Scotsman mentioned the design intent was there and they were so close to doing something great, but just managed to mildly disgruntle everyone on the way.
Dudeface wrote: I think this is one of those rare Dakka moments where despite everyone having differing stances and opinions on some of the terminology, everyone is united in a "uhh what did they do that for?" moment.
It's an incredibly weird choice by GW, as Scotsman mentioned the design intent was there and they were so close to doing something great, but just managed to mildly disgruntle everyone on the way.
Easy-to-Build / pushfit kits are an objectively good thing to have around imo, and as limited as they are I'd rather have this kit available alongside the old kit than just the old kit by itself. Especially if this turns out to be part of a larger ETB range reboot, and other models are on the way for other factions.
Where I think GW have fluffed up here is (surprise surprise) the communication. If they'd have said at any point before now that the "new Boyz" were pushfit and aren't actually intended to replace the old kit then a lot of the angst could have been avoided.
xttz wrote: Easy-to-Build / pushfit kits are an objectively good thing to have around imo, and as limited as they are I'd rather have this kit available alongside the old kit than just the old kit by itself. Especially if this turns out to be part of a larger ETB range reboot, and other models are on the way for other factions.
Where I think GW have fluffed up here is (surprise surprise) the communication. If they'd have said at any point before now that the "new Boyz" were pushfit and aren't actually intended to replace the old kit then a lot of the angst could have been avoided.
I guess you're right. Starting orks was a genuine problem from a money perspective as just buying the minimum required amount of boyz would already cost tons of money.
Having a cheap boyz kit without options side by side with the old kit might actually be a good thing for new players.
Of course, that is assuming the new kit actually is cheaper than other troop choices.
I don't see why they've not gone full Start Collecting: Slaves zo Darkness on this box, where vastly superior Chaos Warriors and Knights sculpts are coupled with a great character that are all exclusive to that box (if nothing has changed). Why not go full AoBR remake and cram more models in or make a kinda diorama like squad like the grenade throwing Shadowspear Space Marine or tbe bbq-ing Sororita.
So they new boyz kit is so bad that you can't even play out of the box the min squad equipped with the same loadout? Which is how everyone plays them, and for a good reason.
In practise you need two kits (20 models) to field the minimum squad of 10 slugga/choppa boys and even three kits (30 models) to field the min squad of 10 shoota boyz.
Amazing. And that's subjective but IMHO all the models look worse than the older ones, especially the nobz.
jojo_monkey_boy wrote: Now I can understand all the pro-GW people loving the games themselves or the universes. I can even get behind the idea that on the whole the quality of their sculpting itself and the range of units offered in plastic is fantastic. But how do you defend something like this? What is the good angle on not actually being able to equip a unit with a load out after buying 2 sets of guys?
I don't think anyone is defending it. It seems pretty universally reviled that they made the set this way.
I guess they do look nice, but at this point I won't be buying any Boyz unless GW release another kit that is less crap, in which case I might buy this set just to fill out the ranks a bit.
Ideally they'd just release separate Shoota and Slugga Boyz kits but with interchangeable parts.
Yeah, dunno, I just like the gorillas more. These are... ok. For an Underworlds-like gang.
Honestly speaking, the current ork range might be the most fun of all GW's ranges, assembly wise, now that oldmarines are kinda dead. So many combinations and possibilities.
GaroRobe wrote: "The real heart of the kit is a brand new set of Ork Boyz, with a familiar but updated look. You get a whopping 20 of them, with enough options to make sure none of them look the same."
Looking forward to seeing if this is true or if GW will edit the article
Of course it's not true, GW themselves confirmed it
xttz wrote: Easy-to-Build / pushfit kits are an objectively good thing to have around imo
Personally, I don't see much value in ETB / push fit kits. Is glue really that hard to use? And most of them if you don't assemble them with glue, they'll have big gaps. Many of the push fit kits are complicated enough that I don't reckon they're easier to build anyway, and I find it just adds an extra step of having to remove the nubs so they fit together properly.
That said, I don't mind having alternate sculpts and if the ETB kits are cheaper it's good, but I'd be happier without the push fit models and instead just having more regular model options.
Bad Case: We get Necron'd, the new monopose kit is the new kit have fun kids.
Hey, the new Necron Warrior kit actually has enough of each weapon to equip the whole squad, and a choice of heads for each model. The new Boyz get neither
Bad Case: We get Necron'd, the new monopose kit is the new kit have fun kids.
Hey, the new Necron Warrior kit actually has enough of each weapon to equip the whole squad, and a choice of heads for each model. The new Boyz get neither
Incidentally atleast it can build all standard weapon options unlike a certain spiky marine kit...
I am a fan of monopose miniatures, in general. I largely think this goes back to my days of collecting things in metal, where each of them was an honest to goodness sculpture. But there were a fairly large number of variations for each trooper.
Plastic monopose at the time was... not good. But worked for filling out the ranks. And frankly expectations were different.
For a unit which has generally 10 models, like SoB, Marines etc - having ideally 10 monopose or at worst a couple of duplicates is fine. Units can be made to look fairly different with different squad markings, etc.
This, if it was all there is, is a step too far. Having 3-4 monopose in a decent sized boyz unit is going to be off-putting.
But - is the old Boyz sprue being totally retired? Didn't they just re-box it? And it's the basis of Burnas and Lootas as well.
I am a fan of monopose miniatures, in general. I largely think this goes back to my days of collecting things in metal, where each of them was an honest to goodness sculpture. But there were a fairly large number of variations for each trooper.
Plastic monopose at the time was... not good. But worked for filling out the ranks. And frankly expectations were different.
For a unit which has generally 10 models, like SoB, Marines etc - having ideally 10 monopose or at worst a couple of duplicates is fine. Units can be made to look fairly different with different squad markings, etc.
This, if it was all there is, is a step too far. Having 3-4 monopose in a decent sized boyz unit is going to be off-putting.
The problem isn't the monopose concept itself. It's the lack of options. Sororitas (which are not monopose) have tons of heads and tons of weapons, any possible legal combination for a 10 man squad is covered. Boyz have fixed loadout instead, only options are rokkit/big shoota for one guy and power klaw/big choppa for the nob.
Monopose necrons for example are fine as long as it's possible to build out of the box a desired legal squad, aka being able to equip all the dudes with the same weapon. Same with SM.
Old shoota boyz all look kinda monopose but at least it was possible to build a squad out of the box, swapping heads (also from different kits) to make them look more unique and their pose was a "neutral" one, like necron warriors. Perfect to make duplicates look acceptable. Three dynamic poses, or to be fair one actually assuming head swaps is still possible, that are multiplied 3x at the very least (just to field a single min legal squad) are extremely bad.
Now I have enough orks that even if the new kit was amazing I wouldn't have bought it, but if I were an ork player needing boyz I'd definitely look for second hand market at this point.
I've built a box of SoBs, they seemed fairly monopose to me (As in the pose of the arms and legs is pretty fixed), but with some optional weapons. This seemed like a very good compromise.
And as I say - I think these Boyz are a step too far towards totally monopose. And the lack of options is daft. And I take your point about neutral poses vs. dynamic.
Well, all older kits had 5-10 set of legs/torsos and they were never considered monopose. Why? Because of head/arms swaps.
Are kabalite warriors or wyches monopose?
As long as a kit has 20 heads (even 10 can be ok), 20+ arms and it's compatible with other kits (see retributors' and seraphims' heads/arms), like the sister one or the aforementioned drukhari boxes, it's certainly not a monopose kit.
I don't know why so many people are acting like the Kommandos/Krieg are in any way on a par with the new Boyz – there's a tonne of options in each and you could easily build them with plenty of variety. I'm as impressed with the former two as I am disappointed by the latter.
As long as a kit has 20 heads (even 10 can be ok), 20+ arms and it's compatible with other kits (see retributors' and seraphims' heads/arms), like the sister one or the aforementioned drukhari boxes, it's certainly not a monopose kit.
This was once of the best things about the old Boyz kit imo – the level of cross-compatibility with other kits in the Ork range. Yet another thing that seems to have been jettisoned with the new kit.
Blackie wrote: Well, all older kits had 5-10 set of legs/torsos and they were never considered monopose. Why? Because of head/arms swaps.
Yes! Because just about any part could be mixed with any part. It didn't matter what set of torso/legs/head you used. You could give the same Tactical torso a Missile Launcher, Flamer, Heavy Bolter, or make them a Sergeant. Or mix'n'match with other kits. The same doesn't happen now. Just compare the Exalted Sorcerer kit to the Deathshroud kit. The difference is stark!
Take even one of their newest kits, the Kommandos. There's only one way to build the Sniper Boy. The arms and weapons go with one torso, and there's a specific head. You can alternatively build that torso as a regular Kommando. You can't give that torso/legs the Rokkit, or any other choppa/slugga combo. It's the two that are assigned to it, and that's all.
This has been happening (in 40k at least) since the Death Guard and Primaris Marines came about. Do you get it yet?
Nazrak wrote: I don't know why so many people are acting like the Kommandos/Krieg are in any way on a par with the new Boyz
They're not as bad but Kommandos are at best a duopose kit: 2 fixed pose loadout options per mini. In practice you can expect every optimal loadout unit of Kommandos in the world to look just about identical.
Nazrak wrote: I don't know why so many people are acting like the Kommandos/Krieg are in any way on a par with the new Boyz
They're not as bad but Kommandos are at best a duopose kit: 2 fixed pose loadout options per mini. In practice you can expect every optimal loadout unit of Kommandos in the world to look just about identical.
In practice, people will most likely kitbash choppa and slugga kommandoz and use the new kit as special weapon models, and each of them has two head options. With the weapons being a wild mix of melee and ranged, you can build two distinct looking units from them without any duplicates. At least that's what I'm going to do.
Yep, all the specialists can be built as a Slugga/Choppa guy instead, and all but two have two different head options. Personally, I think it strikes a pretty good balance between variety of options and interesting poses/building in a way that doesn't let less-experienced modellers accidentally make their guys look completely stupid. Seems very strange to me there's a much greater potential variety of Kommando builds than there is Boyz with the new kit. As others have said though, maybe there'll be an updated Proper Boyz Kit down the line. As things stand though, I'll be sticking with my Klassik Boyz for now – the new kit doesn't offer me anything.
If it weren't for the fact you can't really build the Kommandos without their backpacks, I would be very tempted to just make a bunch of regular Boyz from the Kommandos kit with some head and weapon swaps here and there.
Dread Master wrote: That’s why it seems you’re meant to mix these with the originals so many were worried would be replaced.
theyre gonna look more jarring than primaris vs firstborn marines, though. I'm putting my new kommandos next to old boyz and the only way they'll get away with it is theyve got so much kit on them and big backpacks.
Nazrak wrote: I don't know why so many people are acting like the Kommandos/Krieg are in any way on a par with the new Boyz
They're not as bad but Kommandos are at best a duopose kit: 2 fixed pose loadout options per mini. In practice you can expect every optimal loadout unit of Kommandos in the world to look just about identical.
I mean...
...Ok, you say that, but i've got the kit on my desk right now, and did a couple of test fits looking at some of the different arms, and besides the odd one that doesn't work on a particular torso (usually because the head or the backpack ends up in the way) most of the arms actually do fit on any torso. You can also use any (boy) head on any boy torso, and any backpack on any model. The level of tyranny isn't quite as bad as I initially thought when looking at the bits. Still frustrating as hell and I doubt I'll buy the kit a second time because of it.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Yes! Because just about any part could be mixed with any part. It didn't matter what set of torso/legs/head you used. You could give the same Tactical torso a Missile Launcher, Flamer, Heavy Bolter, or make them a Sergeant. Or mix'n'match with other kits. The same doesn't happen now. Just compare the Exalted Sorcerer kit to the Deathshroud kit. The difference is stark!
Take even one of their newest kits, the Kommandos. There's only one way to build the Sniper Boy. The arms and weapons go with one torso, and there's a specific head. You can alternatively build that torso as a regular Kommando. You can't give that torso/legs the Rokkit, or any other choppa/slugga combo. It's the two that are assigned to it, and that's all.
This has been happening (in 40k at least) since the Death Guard and Primaris Marines came about. Do you get it yet?
The reason why people are 'not getting it' is that it literally is not true. It is bizarre that you mention primaris marines here, as they're mixable and kitbashable in the way you mention. SoB are too, albeit there the integrated shoulderplates and the sleeves limit the combination a bit. Seriously, have you actually built any full primaris kits? I am totally with you on vanishing gear options being bad and I'm not the greatest fan of this monopose ork kit either, but it is just hard to take you seriously when you cannot stick to the truth.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: If it weren't for the fact you can't really build the Kommandos without their backpacks, I would be very tempted to just make a bunch of regular Boyz from the Kommandos kit with some head and weapon swaps here and there.
Shoot, do it anyways and just call them kommando boyz. If they've all got slugga-choppa I don't think anyone will give you grief for running them as a regular 10-man boyz mob. Oh these guys? They think kommandos are really cool and want to be them, so they scrounged some backpacks because they think that's what makes a Kommando.
Nazrak wrote: I don't know why so many people are acting like the Kommandos/Krieg are in any way on a par with the new Boyz
They're not as bad but Kommandos are at best a duopose kit: 2 fixed pose loadout options per mini. In practice you can expect every optimal loadout unit of Kommandos in the world to look just about identical.
In practice, people will most likely kitbash choppa and slugga kommandoz and use the new kit as special weapon models, and each of them has two head options. With the weapons being a wild mix of melee and ranged, you can build two distinct looking units from them without any duplicates. At least that's what I'm going to do.
Or, what I'm planning on doing, use the various special weapons as just regular members of the squad, swapping in old metal kommandos when I use them in normal 40k, and relegating the various special weapon kommandos to other units - rokkit becomes a tankbusta, burna becomes a burna boy, etc.
The Kommandos may be double pose or double pose with a little bit of flexibility if you force a bit the poses of arms, etc...
But TBH if you want miniatures that look as good and charactefull as the new kommandos (That are probably my favourite ork models of all time) thats the only way to do it.
Ideally, rank and file troops that you want a ton of would be made more with the idea of having a ton of slighly different sculpts at the cost of dinamism, and the more elite units could exist having less flexibility in mix and matching because you are gonna have in most list top 10-15 terminators, and have better posing.
Of course as others have said, even if sisters of battle have fixed legs and torsos (The only way to do it with the long sleeves and make them flow naturally. As a DA player, let me tell you, the dark angel veteran squad as much as I like them, looks like they are wearing pajamas. Those robes are pretty bad), they were designed to be able to mix and match basically all their infantry kits, so you have a ton of flexibility.
At this point and age, GW CAN design kits that offer both cool poses and dynamism and a ton of variety. If they don't do it more is for one of two reasons:
-Not all miniature designers are made equal or are as good. Thats obvious comparing Slaangors to Rock Trolls.
-Is a directive design choice that comes from the thinking tank for whatever reason, mostly economical of what they think will be best for the money.
Yeppers. One thing is that the Nob is pretty much always gonna be a Nob so two kits doesn’t make a mob of 20. But then the max mob size is 15 for Kommandos, for no obvious reason.
The free mini for September is an ork nob. I wish they wouldn't show off that nice new nob, since 1) they mention in the fine text models may vary and 2) there's no way they're giving away the new nob from the start collecting set. They really should have just shown the current nob model
GaroRobe wrote: The free mini for September is an ork nob. I wish they wouldn't show off that nice new nob, since 1) they mention in the fine text models may vary and 2) there's no way they're giving away the new nob from the start collecting set. They really should have just shown the current nob model
Just gonna throw this out there, but since some regions give away preassembled models?
It might be there as a "cover your butt" for the head+big choppa options.
With regards to it being the new one or not...I dunno. It might happen, it might not.
While we're on this topic, props also to the core Goliath sprue, making a large variety of poses with natural looking naked muscles from 5 fixed bodies with just differently posed arms and necks.
lord_blackfang wrote: While we're on this topic, props also to the core Goliath sprue, making a large variety of poses with natural looking naked muscles from 5 fixed bodies with just differently posed arms and necks.
Indeed. A two-sprues gang box with that level of quality would have been astounding. But, alas, it was not to be.
The Necromunda sprues are amazing, they managed to put a lot of variety into very limited sprue space. Some are quite tricky to build though (remember that Goliath cigar butt which I think is the smallest object on any sprue produced by GW?), so if you're going for easy to build you're not going to get the same thing.
Albertorius wrote: Well, I hope people like them, because they're gonna see them a lot.
ListenToMeWarriors wrote: Not being able to create a 20 Ork mob of either just shootas or choppas and sluggas straight out of the box is a baffling choice.
mortar_crew wrote: And worst of it all, only 3 (!?) shootas for 10 boyz?!
I don't want to actually be right about this all the time, but sadly GW can't help making my fears a constant reality.
So, to put this to bed once and for all:
People here were adamant about getting new Boyz.
They thought it would be the best thing ever.
I said from the very start to be careful what you wish for.
I was right.
Again.
This is pretty typical. It's been this way - in 40k at least - since the Death Guard release. Sorry you don't see that.
Not only were you right (and I agreed with you), it also works to undermine the usefulness of the old Boyz/everything else kits. Almost ALL of those kits were easily cross-compatible (not put it together and slice it apart compatible). Having a massive bitz box was a boon for every ork project--as everything was an option on everything else. Now, we have (IMHO) a great looking kit, but one that both isn't an easy fit with all the other kits, and one that makes a unit loadout that is clearly less popular than the previous kit.
Yeah, big OOF moment for that Battlewagon price reveal. I definitely feel for any new Ork players starting right now because GW is really price gouging them for older kits. Would it kill them to at least keep the price the same? They've already made their money from the sprue since its been released ages ago, do the customers a solid and just make it the upgrade pack+OG battlewagon cost.
Grimskul wrote: Yeah, big OOF moment for that Battlewagon price reveal. I definitely feel for any new Ork players starting right now because GW is really price gouging them for older kits. Would it kill them to at least keep the price the same? They've already made their money from the sprue since its been released ages ago, do the customers a solid and just make it the upgrade pack+OG battlewagon cost.
As mentioned above, this works out not far off the same cost if you have an online store flgs with good discount because of the increase in accessibility of the sprues. It's not perfect, it's still a bit of a greed move but it's not the worst thing to happen.
£33.75 for a battlewagon at discount with a direct only upgrade pack you can get for £8.10 at it's best price for a total of £41.85. New battlewagon price £45 after discount. So £3 more expensive discounted or £6 more expensive on full RRP, either way you now can get it all in 1 box from wherever you like instead of maybe 2 places.
Galas wrote: The Kommandos may be double pose or double pose with a little bit of flexibility if you force a bit the poses of arms, etc...
But TBH if you want miniatures that look as good and charactefull as the new kommandos (That are probably my favourite ork models of all time) thats the only way to do it.
Ideally, rank and file troops that you want a ton of would be made more with the idea of having a ton of slighly different sculpts at the cost of dinamism, and the more elite units could exist having less flexibility in mix and matching because you are gonna have in most list top 10-15 terminators, and have better posing.
Of course as others have said, even if sisters of battle have fixed legs and torsos (The only way to do it with the long sleeves and make them flow naturally. As a DA player, let me tell you, the dark angel veteran squad as much as I like them, looks like they are wearing pajamas. Those robes are pretty bad), they were designed to be able to mix and match basically all their infantry kits, so you have a ton of flexibility.
At this point and age, GW CAN design kits that offer both cool poses and dynamism and a ton of variety. If they don't do it more is for one of two reasons:
-Not all miniature designers are made equal or are as good. Thats obvious comparing Slaangors to Rock Trolls.
-Is a directive design choice that comes from the thinking tank for whatever reason, mostly economical of what they think will be best for the money.
Probably a mix of the two.
Mostly the only thing that irritated me was the fact that instead of a flat join on the shoulders they intentionally put in an angled recess and a lump on the arm, and they changed the head from a simple ball-and-socket to a custom recess.
The only possible reasoning behind hese two changes is: prevent kitbashing. actively prevent or at least make much harder swapping within the kit and to other ork kits.
I dont care if they design a set of arms that can only go together one way, or legs and a torso, that's fine. At the end of the day, I was able to basically use any arms within the kit on any model within the kit, and any head on any model, and any backpack on any model, so even though theyre designed as 'dual pose' functionally, you can make varied kommandos out of the box with no cutting and they look fine.
But what I cant now do is take those kommando bits and use them on other orks. which sucks.
Galas wrote: The Kommandos may be double pose or double pose with a little bit of flexibility if you force a bit the poses of arms, etc...
But TBH if you want miniatures that look as good and charactefull as the new kommandos (That are probably my favourite ork models of all time) thats the only way to do it.
Ideally, rank and file troops that you want a ton of would be made more with the idea of having a ton of slighly different sculpts at the cost of dinamism, and the more elite units could exist having less flexibility in mix and matching because you are gonna have in most list top 10-15 terminators, and have better posing.
Of course as others have said, even if sisters of battle have fixed legs and torsos (The only way to do it with the long sleeves and make them flow naturally. As a DA player, let me tell you, the dark angel veteran squad as much as I like them, looks like they are wearing pajamas. Those robes are pretty bad), they were designed to be able to mix and match basically all their infantry kits, so you have a ton of flexibility.
At this point and age, GW CAN design kits that offer both cool poses and dynamism and a ton of variety. If they don't do it more is for one of two reasons:
-Not all miniature designers are made equal or are as good. Thats obvious comparing Slaangors to Rock Trolls.
-Is a directive design choice that comes from the thinking tank for whatever reason, mostly economical of what they think will be best for the money.
Probably a mix of the two.
Mostly the only thing that irritated me was the fact that instead of a flat join on the shoulders they intentionally put in an angled recess and a lump on the arm, and they changed the head from a simple ball-and-socket to a custom recess.
The only possible reasoning behind hese two changes is: prevent kitbashing. actively prevent or at least make much harder swapping within the kit and to other ork kits.
I dont care if they design a set of arms that can only go together one way, or legs and a torso, that's fine. At the end of the day, I was able to basically use any arms within the kit on any model within the kit, and any head on any model, and any backpack on any model, so even though theyre designed as 'dual pose' functionally, you can make varied kommandos out of the box with no cutting and they look fine.
But what I cant now do is take those kommando bits and use them on other orks. which sucks.
Wanna bet all future Ork infantry will have diffrent custom recesses on arms and necks, so no two kits are compatibile?
Why would they aim to prevent you from kitbashing? That's another box sale they're potentially missing. The locked sockets are to make the shoulder muscles line up realistically and allow poses other than the static, repeated ones you see in the current boyz kit. Similarly, if the recesses don't match up between kits, it's because they don't care about compatibility, not that they're actively going out of their way to foil converters.
All GW's sculptors care about is making a sweet looking mini. Other considerations, like repetition or ease of conversion, are footnotes at best.
The kicker is that they seemingly used to care about that type of stuff. I remember seeing a thing that the guy who designed the flash gitz kit made it intentionally completely compatible with nobz.
GaroRobe wrote: The free mini for September is an ork nob. I wish they wouldn't show off that nice new nob, since 1) they mention in the fine text models may vary and 2) there's no way they're giving away the new nob from the start collecting set. They really should have just shown the current nob model
Just gonna throw this out there, but since some regions give away preassembled models?
It might be there as a "cover your butt" for the head+big choppa options.
With regards to it being the new one or not...I dunno. It might happen, it might not.
They have now swapped out the new nob with the current model.
Trimarius wrote: Why would they aim to prevent you from kitbashing?.
To make it harder for people to make 3rd-party bits for their models, of course.
I am consistently baffled by their logic that by making their own products worse for consumers, they'll somehow reduce the demand for third-party alternatives
Trimarius wrote: Why would they aim to prevent you from kitbashing?.
To make it harder for people to make 3rd-party bits for their models, of course.
I am consistently baffled by their logic that by making their own products worse for consumers, they'll somehow reduce the demand for third-party alternatives
Honestly you can just look around social media to confirm that a very large subset of their consumers really don't care that GW is actively making the thing worse for them and are going to buy it anyway with some excuse
Eh, fanboys are the same everywhere and will bend over backwards to make excuses for the company.
I enjoyed watching the Warmahordes crowd flip flop between
"It's good PP models don't come with options, why pay for bitz than you're not gonna use" and "Of course PP models are more expensive than the GW equivalent, look at all the options they come with now"
Trimarius wrote: Why would they aim to prevent you from kitbashing?.
To make it harder for people to make 3rd-party bits for their models, of course.
I am consistently baffled by their logic that by making their own products worse for consumers, they'll somehow reduce the demand for third-party alternatives
Honestly you can just look around social media to confirm that a very large subset of their consumers really don't care that GW is actively making the thing worse for them and are going to buy it anyway with some excuse
A clarification for readers: "some excuse" is a phrase which means 'reason [the speaker] does not understand'. It crops up a lot because individuals assume their subjective tastes are inherently correct and others' subjective tastes inherently incorrect.
Trimarius wrote: Why would they aim to prevent you from kitbashing?.
To make it harder for people to make 3rd-party bits for their models, of course.
I am consistently baffled by their logic that by making their own products worse for consumers, they'll somehow reduce the demand for third-party alternatives
Honestly you can just look around social media to confirm that a very large subset of their consumers really don't care that GW is actively making the thing worse for them and are going to buy it anyway with some excuse
A clarification for readers: "some excuse" is a phrase which means 'reason [the speaker] does not understand'. It crops up a lot because individuals assume their subjective tastes are inherently correct and others' subjective tastes inherently incorrect.
No, it means some people have lower standards but need a justification for it other than them having low standards.
How is preferring an interestingly posed miniature that's therefore obviously harder to kitbash "low standards"? Out of box quality and low impact conversion potential are different things.
Also, how exactly does a square socket make it harder for third parties to produce bits or even whole replacement models? I'm sure the sculptors at victoria, kromlech, or wherever else have grasped the concept that a cube isn't a flat circle. It's not harder to model or cast up a bit with the appropriate connector. It might be more annoying to have to keep a bunch of different ones in stock if there are tons of unique joints, I suppose, but that's hardly going to decimate the market and drive them all out of business (which I assume must be the plan behind this evil conspiracy, right?).
GW just wants models, especially in starter boxes (including SC/CP sets), to be as impressive and idiot proof as possible. Square pegs (or other bespoke connectors) mean Timmy can't angle the arm stupidly and ruin the lines of the model.
I'm not going to run out and buy a bunch of these new boyz (maybe a set to add some variety while converting the duplicate half, if I like them enough once I see them in person), but that doesn't mean it's a poor product, just that it isn't aimed at me.
GaroRobe wrote: The free mini for September is an ork nob. I wish they wouldn't show off that nice new nob, since 1) they mention in the fine text models may vary and 2) there's no way they're giving away the new nob from the start collecting set. They really should have just shown the current nob model
Just gonna throw this out there, but since some regions give away preassembled models?
It might be there as a "cover your butt" for the head+big choppa options.
With regards to it being the new one or not...I dunno. It might happen, it might not.
Warhammer Coventry confirmed that it certainly isn't the new Nob. They have 6 packs of the current Nob box to build and giveaway individual miniatures from Saturday. A shame.
Trimarius wrote: How is preferring an interestingly posed miniature that's therefore obviously harder to kitbash "low standards"? Out of box quality and low impact conversion potential are different things.
It's only a better miniature if you're ever going to buy one since it can only be assembled one set way, meaning any new box is going to just give you identical clones of said interestingly posed miniature. That's out of box quality, and not low conversion potential.
Trimarius wrote: Also, how exactly does a square socket make it harder for third parties to produce bits or even whole replacement models? I'm sure the sculptors at victoria, kromlech, or wherever else have grasped the concept that a cube isn't a flat circle. It's not harder to model or cast up a bit with the appropriate connector
Ya don't get it do ya? Beforehand, since any arm could go on any body, regardless of the kit, so one could just knock out a load of new arm sculpts, that could be attached to any Ork body easily. Now, any third party arm for your Boyz or Kommandos has to be specifically made to attach to one single body, not only requiring much more effort, but also completly restricting the use of any 3rd-party bit to just one single body, absolutely gutting their use. Third party Ork arms or heads have gone from all being compatible with pretty much the entire Ork infantry range, to all having to be specifically made to fit one particular body.
Trimarius wrote: The locked sockets are to make the shoulder muscles line up realistically and allow poses other than the static, repeated ones you see in the current boyz kit.
As opposed to the static, repeated poses in the new Boyz kit.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Now, any third party arm for your Boyz or Kommandos has to be specifically made to attach to one single body, not only requiring much more effort, but also completly restricting the use of any 3rd-party bit to just one single body, absolutely gutting their use. Third party Ork arms or heads have gone from all being compatible with pretty much the entire Ork infantry range, to all having to be specifically made to fit one particular body.
Or, more likely, there just won't be 3rd party Ork bits made for the new kits.
They're still plastic minis. If you're going to the effort of buying third party conversion bits, I'd expect you can handle a little trimming and maybe some gap-filling superglue to make a conversion work. People in this thread are acting like GW is going to come to your house and break your fingers if you try to build the new Orks any way other than what the instructions say.
The new Orks Boyz are a new kit with new features. They didn't invalidate or discontinue the existing boys. Everyone now has more model options, not less. This is not a crisis.
Trimarius wrote: How is preferring an interestingly posed miniature that's therefore obviously harder to kitbash "low standards"? Out of box quality and low impact conversion potential are different things.
It's only a better miniature if you're ever going to buy one since it can only be assembled one set way, meaning any new box is going to just give you identical clones of said interestingly posed miniature. That's out of box quality, and not low conversion potential.
Trimarius wrote: Also, how exactly does a square socket make it harder for third parties to produce bits or even whole replacement models? I'm sure the sculptors at victoria, kromlech, or wherever else have grasped the concept that a cube isn't a flat circle. It's not harder to model or cast up a bit with the appropriate connector
Ya don't get it do ya? Beforehand, since any arm could go on any body, regardless of the kit, so one could just knock out a load of new arm sculpts, that could be attached to any Ork body easily. Now, any third party arm for your Boyz or Kommandos has to be specifically made to attach to one single body, not only requiring much more effort, but also completly restricting the use of any 3rd-party bit to just one single body, absolutely gutting their use. Third party Ork arms or heads have gone from all being compatible with pretty much the entire Ork infantry range, to all having to be specifically made to fit one particular body.
Have you assembled boyz before? The current range of motion (that looks good and doesn't require any further work) is basically just a single plane for each of the slugga/choppa and which he's looking at. Every default ork boy stands in a generic squat with his arms more or less straight out in front of him. That single plane of movement helps disguise the six copies of "sword with skull handle" each unit has a bit, but they remain as obvious as the axis locked "zombie hug" arms are. Gork help you if you want shoota boyz, they're basically immobile besides some head tilt.
You get triple number of shoota poses in the new kit, for example: "charging", "hip fire", and "aiming" compared to the "all hip fire all the time" of the old one. The bizarre 3/5/1/1 split is annoyingly stupid (and I'm with anyone complaining about that), but you still get more poses. And it looks like it'll be easier to cut/swap heads than it currently is to reposition shoota arms.
Also, we know most of the kommando arms are swappable (according to people on here, I haven't picked any up), so you can still have most of them be reusable. Having a few bespoke arms (or altered sculpts that are just different connectors) that fit the odd men out isn't the end of the world. Just package them appropriately.
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Trimarius wrote: The locked sockets are to make the shoulder muscles line up realistically and allow poses other than the static, repeated ones you see in the current boyz kit.
As opposed to the static, repeated poses in the new Boyz kit.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Now, any third party arm for your Boyz or Kommandos has to be specifically made to attach to one single body, not only requiring much more effort, but also completly restricting the use of any 3rd-party bit to just one single body, absolutely gutting their use. Third party Ork arms or heads have gone from all being compatible with pretty much the entire Ork infantry range, to all having to be specifically made to fit one particular body.
Or, more likely, there just won't be 3rd party Ork bits made for the new kits.
Exactly what GW wants.
The new "ETB" boyz have ten unique, relatively dynamic poses that will be repeated a few times in a full size unit, yes. The old boyz had minor variations on one static, repeated pose but could repeat that one pose with different head/weapon combos. I'm not seeing how that's really any better? You're going to want to convert most of them, either way, if you want to avoid repetition.
TwilightSparkles wrote: GE’s job isn’t to make it easy for other companies to make money easily from GW product.
Third parties could always design and produce own orks.
Woldn't GW make more money when you buy their Orks plus 3rd party bits than when you buy a whole third party Ork model? Or if they just offered conversion bits themselves?
The new "ETB" boyz have ten unique, relatively dynamic poses that will be repeated a few times in a full size unit, yes. The old boyz had minor variations on one static, repeated pose but could repeat that one pose with different head/weapon combos. I'm not seeing how that's really any better? You're going to want to convert most of them, either way, if you want to avoid repetition.
The old Orks could be mixed with parts from lootas, burnas, bikers, stormboyz or even the old fantasy battle Orks, so there was a whole lot of kitbash potential... no more of that with the new kit.
Prometheum5 wrote: They're still plastic minis. If you're going to the effort of buying third party conversion bits, I'd expect you can handle a little trimming and maybe some gap-filling superglue to make a conversion work. People in this thread are acting like GW is going to come to your house and break your fingers if you try to build the new Orks any way other than what the instructions say.
The new Orks Boyz are a new kit with new features. They didn't invalidate or discontinue the existing boys. Everyone now has more model options, not less. This is not a crisis.
That is, until such a time as they release these separate, of course.
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TwilightSparkles wrote: GE’s job isn’t to make it easy for other companies to make money easily from GW product.
Third parties could always design and produce own orks.
I’ve never understood GW (and others) attitude that 3rd party bits are bad for business, because every bit requires you to have bought a GW model to put it on in the first place. And more extensive conversions often require you to buy several kits just to make one unit or even a single model!
If anything this situation* is worse for business, because with very limited sculpts in an army that lives and breathes on variety, people are more likely to buy whole models from 3rd parties rather than just bits. That will actually be reducing GW sales. And “Space Orcs” is not something GW can easily C&D, it’s too generic.
*Assuming they start retiring the old kit(s), which fortunately doesn’t seem to be on the cards just yet…
Jadenim wrote: I’ve never understood GW (and others) attitude that 3rd party bits are bad for business, because every bit requires you to have bought a GW model to put it on in the first place.
Money isn't infinite. If you spend some of your disposable income on 3rd party bits that money isn't going to additional GW purchases. They want your entire hobby budget going to their products if possible.
So there is only 3 shoota boyz in the kit? If anyone want a full unit of them it's gonna be the same 3 repeated over and over? Or are the shoota arms free to go on any of the bodies? (Unlikely).
Skywave wrote: So there is only 3 shoota botz in the kit? If anyone want a full unit of them its gonna be the same 3 repetead over and over? Or are the shoota free to go on any bodies? (Unlikely).
Skywave wrote: So there is only 3 shoota botz in the kit? If anyone want a full unit of them its gonna be the same 3 repetead over and over? Or are the shoota free to go on any bodies? (Unlikely).
Skywave wrote: So there is only 3 shoota botz in the kit? If anyone want a full unit of them its gonna be the same 3 repetead over and over? Or are the shoota free to go on any bodies? (Unlikely).
Just 3 per box.
That's why the current Boyz kit is still on sale.
That's a bit of a relief, but too bad if someone see the new models, love the look of them, and want 10+ shootas of them I guess!
I had that Beastsnagga army in hand, at the counter, hand in pocket... I was good putting it back.
These new guys look on par to the old boyz like a head taller NOB. You won't need any more then about three boxes, before you get tired of the clones.
My personal idea, is that you will see some Shoota specific boxes, or new type of Boyz later in the year. ORKTOBER is almost on us, expect to hear more.
My personal idea, is that you will see some Shoota specific boxes, or new type of Boyz later in the year. ORKTOBER is almost on us, expect to hear more.
GW is really bad at actually pulling off a proper Orktober, I wouldn't hold my breath on seeing anything new that we haven't seen before. For a better Orktober than anything GW does, take a look at Kromlech.
Dread Master wrote: No one will do that. They’ll buy the old box and mix them in.
The issue with that might be that the new orks look sufficiently different that they will look weird in a mixed squad with the old ones. I'd like to actually see a side by side comparison.
My personal idea, is that you will see some Shoota specific boxes, or new type of Boyz later in the year. ORKTOBER is almost on us, expect to hear more.
GW is really bad at actually pulling off a proper Orktober, I wouldn't hold my breath on seeing anything new that we haven't seen before. For a better Orktober than anything GW does, take a look at Kromlech.
A) it was always one off. Never even suggested yearly
B) codex, discount box and about 7 kits. Not too bad for non-space marine month
CMLR wrote: Everyone-1 being E2B will probably try to deter people from wanting to buy multiples. I wanted two and now I know I don't want three.
Perfect for stalling out actual posable new boyz for another edition at the very least.
The disappointment from me is I don't like the existing boyz. I like Orks in general, but the existing Boyz kit feels like a 20 year old kit, because it is a 20 year old kit.
I was looking for a new Boyz kit to kickstart an Ork army, especially after the really nice Kommandos I was hoping for some decent Boyz. With these monopose Boyz it basically sinks that idea.
I'm behind in the rules, is it even legal to take a mob with 3 shootas / 5 sluggas?
Battlewagon gonna be a bit pricey, but at least I could get all I want in a single box and magnetize it.
GW are one of the few that thinks bundling two items together in one box calls for a price rise
I saw on one of the 3rd party stores that the RRP in Oz for the new Battlewagon is $165AUD, up from $110 previously. I don't know what the upgrade sprue used to cost in AUD though.
CMLR wrote: Everyone-1 being E2B will probably try to deter people from wanting to buy multiples. I wanted two and now I know I don't want three.
Perfect for stalling out actual posable new boyz for another edition at the very least.
The disappointment from me is I don't like the existing boyz. I like Orks in general, but the existing Boyz kit feels like a 20 year old kit, because it is a 20 year old kit.
I was looking for a new Boyz kit to kickstart an Ork army, especially after the really nice Kommandos I was hoping for some decent Boyz. With these monopose Boyz it basically sinks that idea.
I'm behind in the rules, is it even legal to take a mob with 3 shootas / 5 sluggas?
Battlewagon gonna be a bit pricey, but at least I could get all I want in a single box and magnetize it.
GW are one of the few that thinks bundling two items together in one box calls for a price rise
It is legal to take mix and match sluggas and shootas, but usually there's no point in doing that since it dilutes the unit's ability to do shooting or CC, especially in this edition where choppas are clearly the superior option.
And yeah, agreed on the boyz situation. GW shouldn't have taken the half measure with the new sculpt, they should have gone all in and made it a proper multi-part plastic kit with modularity.
I saw on one of the 3rd party stores that the RRP in Oz for the new Battlewagon is $165AUD, up from $110 previously. I don't know what the upgrade sprue used to cost in AUD though.
The new Combat Patrol is $230AUD RRP and the Snagga Boyz $84AUD, so a bit more expensive than the Cadians that were re-released with the new upgrade sprue.
The new Battlewagon box should've been less expensive than the previous kit and the upgrade sprue togather - afterall, Start Collecting kits and Combat Patrols don't cost MORE than their individual contents, now do they?
Ok pre-orders are up in Oz and holy fething hell, GW really did put the Battlewagon up AUD$55 for by including a AUD$22 sprue.
It went from AUD$110 to AUD$165. That is literally a 50% price increase over the base price for one sprue that didn't even cost that much to begin with. 25% increase if combined... for nothing. Literally nothing.
My decision to get an "old" Battlewagon earlier in the week (for AUD$87) now seems incredibly prescient.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Ok pre-orders are up in Oz and holy fething hell, GW really did put the Battlewagon up AUD$55 for by including a AUD$22 sprue.
It went from AUD$110 to AUD$165. That is literally a 50% price increase over the base price for one sprue that didn't even cost that much to begin with. 25% increase if combined... for nothing. Literally nothing.
My decision to get an "old" Battlewagon earlier in the week (for AUD$87) now seems incredibly prescient.
That's highway robbery right there. I hate how regional pricing is so inconsistent for the different kits, I really feel for you guys in Australia considering how many times you get shafted for prices down there. Canada doesn't get treated much better considering we're right next to the U.S., so much for the commonwealth getting treated any better for staying loyal to the crown in history lol.
Are boys squads better in squads of 10 or? I know the go to used to be 30.
What about Beast snagga boyz? squads of 10 or squads of 20?
Honestly with that box being out for a month or so now I am surprised I haven't seen anything about boy squad sizes.
Currently boyz are generally best as 10 man squads of trukk boyz if you take them at all. There's no incentive with taking over 10 since they lost the Unstoppable Green Tide strat and the 20+ unit buff. Furthermore, morale greatly impacts their usefulness since they're easy to whittle down with the nerfs to mob rule and loss of other morale abilities in the Ork codex.
Beast snaggas are in a similar situation, taking 10 in a trukk is fine, but they also aren't that great. You're better off taking grotz as troops filler for detachments or trukk boyz for alpha strike capability.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: The new Battlewagon box should've been less expensive than the previous kit and the upgrade sprue togather - afterall, Start Collecting kits and Combat Patrols don't cost MORE than their individual contents, now do they?
Using an example from AoS, I remember that very early on, when repacking both Juggernaut variants and Chaos Knights, they increased the prices of the kits by roughly +10 quids (when international store still used pounds as currency), and literally doubled up the contents of the boxes. Yeah, remember that Bloodcrushers, Skullcrushers, and Chaos Knights BOTH used to came in 3s/3s/5s per box in Fantasy 8th.
They would later on do the same for the original batch of Battleline Sigmarines when they reboxed them from boxes of 5 to 10.
Battlewagon now costs +6 NZ currency more then Orkanauts/Stompa. I don't know why would they do this, outside of 40K being the bread and butter product they sell.
Wait… the new Orks are just easy build without the option to build shoota boys or choppa boys…? They’re stuck how they are besides the boss or heavy weapon guy? Man…. Well that ruined my day.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Far as I can tell, every model in the Combat Patrol is push-fit, with the exception of the Deff Dread.
On the NZ site they have one of the Kopter sprue pics duplicated and don't show the one with the KMB to confirm if that's optional or if it only builds a KMB which is bad.
They still sell the regular Boyz kit, so you can still do proper Orks. You just can't do Ork units out of these Orks because... nope. I got nothing. I can't think of a reason why GW would do that.
Prometheum5 wrote: On the NZ site they have one of the Kopter sprue pics duplicated and don't show the one with the KMB to confirm if that's optional or if it only builds a KMB which is bad.
Yeah it's the same on the GWOZ site as well. I have a feeling that will be a mistake repeated the world over by the time pre-orders are up everywhere. Of course, given what we've seen of the kits so far, I'd say there's an even chance the 3rd Deffkopta doesn't get a choice with its weapons.
It's amazing really: Thirteen years after Black Reach and GW finally does a new Deffkopta kit... and they're still push-fit. What is happening in Nottingham?
Prometheum5 wrote: On the NZ site they have one of the Kopter sprue pics duplicated and don't show the one with the KMB to confirm if that's optional or if it only builds a KMB which is bad.
Yeah it's the same on the GWOZ site as well. I have a feeling that will be a mistake repeated the world over by the time pre-orders are up everywhere.
I checked the images individually and even though it's the same sprue pic, they have different file identifiers (the 3 images are ORKCPSprue6, ORKCPSprue7 and ORKCPSprue8). So it's not just an issue of pointing to the wrong file on the website, so yeah, I image the mistake will be repeated across the entire world unless someone notices and uploads the correct image.
Normal companies, when putting two items in a bundle and selling it, would make it cheaper compared to buying the two separately.
But not Games Workshop oh no, in their infinite wisdom they decided to simply make it more expensive than buying them separately, and then remove the separate items.
Can you really classify this as anything more than malicious greed?
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Normal companies, when putting two items in a bundle and selling it, would make it cheaper compared to buying the two separately.
But not Games Workshop oh no, in their infinite wisdom they decided to simply make it more expensive than buying them separately, and then remove the separate items.
Can you really classify this as anything more than malicious greed?
Malicious suggests intent to harm, I don't think it's anything beyond passive greed tbh.
Then again their price hikes seem to be less likely than a pointless complaint post from you every page.
E2B koptas are not really an issue. They're vehicles and all vehicles are duplicates. Killa kanz are not E2B but they aren't highly customizable either, except for the shooty weapon maybe. AOBR koptas were also E2B and lots people bought the models they wanted without complaining, even when they become OOP and were only available though second hand market. Adding a few extra bitz or converting the pilots is so easy that buying mutliples of the kopta kits shouldn't prevent hobbysts to make the models look a bit more unique. Just like old plastic koptas.
Current ork buggies are not E2B but most of the players build them as perfect duplicates as well and at that point I'd rather save time if that's the desired final result.
Megaboss being E2B is not an issue either, in fact it might even been a good thing. That's a model with fixed loadout that makes no sense to spam.
E2B concept on boyz is very bad instead, especially if they are kitted with mixed loadouts.
Generally speaking E2B design on models that are supposed to be one single model per army with no options to choose or vehicles is not bad.
Blackie wrote: E2B koptas are not really an issue. They're vehicles and all vehicles are duplicates.
Those Orks, well known for their standardisation...
True, I despise ork duplicates, to the point that I don't own two official vehicles' models of the same type, pretty much everything is scratch built in my collection .
Converting or customizing ork vehicles is easy, since you can do whatever you want. But it's a fact that all ork vehicles' kits allow to build exact duplicates unless of course kitbashing or converting them. Even those that aren't E2B at all: all buggies, trukk, mek gunz, all flyers, battlewagons, mork/gorkanaut, stompa, kanz. Only the dread has the bitz to assemble two reasonably distinctive models out of the box.
And there's the old Finecast Big Mek with KFF back as part of the new release. I have one in a drawer somewhere, it's a very nice model, maybe I should paint him up.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Monopose Deffkoptas suck, because you can at least use the old Boyz instead of the new ones, and easily kitbash a Boss in Mega Armour.
Funny enough, the beastboss is cheaper than the AOS Megaboss. I guess GW just assumes people are going to prefer kitbashing their own over the new kit
Beastboss is quite useless rules-wise though so not many is going to bother.
I don't think it's that easy to kitbash the Megaboss though, because he's considerably bigger than the Meganobs. Unless you do the old Daemon Prince conversion thing.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Monopose Deffkoptas suck, because you can at least use the old Boyz instead of the new ones, and easily kitbash a Boss in Mega Armour.
I don't really see a problem with the Deffkopters. They might be monopose, but you get 3 unique sculpts and Ork vehicles are pretty easy to make unique with conversions.
You can kitbash a Boss in Mega Armour, but unless you have insane conversion skills it's not going to look as good as this one.
The boyz are my main issue, I don't like the old ones and so to me this was a massive missed opportunity.
Oguhmek wrote: Beastboss is quite useless rules-wise though so not many is going to bother.
I don't think it's that easy to kitbash the Megaboss though, because he's considerably bigger than the Meganobs. Unless you do the old Daemon Prince conversion thing.
A lot of people have the old Thrakka model flying about and attaching a big choppa to it's arm instead of a klaw isn't exactly miracle work.
Galas wrote: In general, bikers and vehicles have always been "Monopose". Optional weapon options and customization bitzs are cool, but not that common.
Just eye-balling the two sprues we can see on the Combat Patrol listing (and not having the 8th or 9th Ork 'dex to look at the datasheet), there are definitely things that could've been done...
- Have a common connector between the Kopta and the base detail piece, so that each Kopta could go over each terrain bit
- Have the weapon system be a piece that plugs into the nose, rather than molded on to the body, potentially even allowing you to mix/match the 2 & 3 rokkit sides if you felt like it. with enough parts so all three can have the default weapon, assuming the 2/1 ratio isn't locked in on the datasheet.
- Have the rotors interchangeable (which I think they have done, going by these two, but I want to see the connector for the third to be sure)
- Have the pilot arms be interchangeable (and, ideally, compatible with normal Boyz, etc) - this might be the case, but I'll wait for people to get the kit to be sure.
Galas wrote: In general, bikers and vehicles have always been "Monopose". Optional weapon options and customization bitzs are cool, but not that common.
- Have the weapon system be a piece that plugs into the nose, rather than molded on to the body, potentially even allowing you to mix/match the 2 & 3 rokkit sides if you felt like it. with enough parts so all three can have the default weapon, assuming the 2/1 ratio isn't locked in on the datasheet.
I can confirm it's not locked on the datasheet, each model has rokkits by default and 1 in 3 can replace it with a kustom mega-blasta and big bomb.
Oguhmek wrote: Beastboss is quite useless rules-wise though so not many is going to bother.
I don't think it's that easy to kitbash the Megaboss though, because he's considerably bigger than the Meganobs. Unless you do the old Daemon Prince conversion thing.
A lot of people have the old Thrakka model flying about and attaching a big choppa to it's arm instead of a klaw isn't exactly miracle work.
And a lot of people don't, and it's not a model they sell any more.
I'm not really sure why we're talking about kitbashing the Mega Armour Boss to overcome monoposeness anyway, it's not like character models have ever been anything other than monopose.
GW used to make multipose character models now and then - chaos termie lord/ sorc lord, exalted sorcs kit, a few others too I think. They don't any more, that bit is true.
King Kirby probably realised it was a horribly inefficient way to maximise profits on a single miniature. Look how far they've come since then, it's much better now.
yukishiro1 wrote: GW used to make multipose character models now and then - chaos termie lord/ sorc lord, exalted sorcs kit, a few others too I think. They don't any more, that bit is true.
The exalted sorces look pretty monopose to me (I don't own them, but looking at the models and sprues they don't look like they have much in the way of posing options).
I think you'll get more in the way of multipose marine varieties simply because the way the armour works makes it easier to allow for some slight angle changes on the arms and whatnot, but in general I don't recall a large number of multipose characters. There was that WHFB Orc Warboss that was multipose... and looked terrible.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: In what fething world is an $85 battlewagon suddenly worth $100? What a joke of a company. No additions, nothing new, just randomly $15 more.
Like at least add some sort of upgrade sprue with bits and extra weapons to slap on.
Umm... they did.
The Deff Rolla sprue is now in the box.
Of course that doesn't explain the massive increase in price (as mentioned on the last page, it's 25% more expensive than the old combined Battlewagon + Upgrade Sprue cost for literally nothing extra), but they did add something.
Yeah, they look monopose with a couple of build options, not multipose. Maybe I’m wrong as I said I don’t own them, I just looked at the sprues and looked at community pics of people who have built them and they don’t look to have much choice in posing. There’s the walking dude, the dude on a disk and the dude with his legs apart on floating swirly stuff.
The weapons can be swapped out, yes, but unless I’m missing something they look “pretty monopose”.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: In what fething world is an $85 battlewagon suddenly worth $100? What a joke of a company. No additions, nothing new, just randomly $15 more.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Like at least add some sort of upgrade sprue with bits and extra weapons to slap on.
I had to giggle when I looked at the price of the Stormraven in the GW store...
$106.00. Seriously, let's increase the cost of a kit that practically no one is buying anyway.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: In what fething world is an $85 battlewagon suddenly worth $100? What a joke of a company. No additions, nothing new, just randomly $15 more.
Like at least add some sort of upgrade sprue with bits and extra weapons to slap on.
Umm... they did.
The Deff Rolla sprue is now in the box.
Of course that doesn't explain the massive increase in price (as mentioned on the last page, it's 25% more expensive than the old combined Battlewagon + Upgrade Sprue cost for literally nothing extra), but they did add something.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: In what fething world is an $85 battlewagon suddenly worth $100? What a joke of a company. No additions, nothing new, just randomly $15 more.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Like at least add some sort of upgrade sprue with bits and extra weapons to slap on.
I had to giggle when I looked at the price of the Stormraven in the GW store...
$106.00. Seriously, let's increase the cost of a kit that practically no one is buying anyway.
Yeah thats insane, but we could throw out 300 examples of this if we really got into it.....ahem.....LAND RAIDER
Midnightdeathblade wrote: In what fething world is an $85 battlewagon suddenly worth $100? What a joke of a company. No additions, nothing new, just randomly $15 more.
Like at least add some sort of upgrade sprue with bits and extra weapons to slap on.
Umm... they did.
The Deff Rolla sprue is now in the box.
Of course that doesn't explain the massive increase in price (as mentioned on the last page, it's 25% more expensive than the old combined Battlewagon + Upgrade Sprue cost for literally nothing extra), but they did add something.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: In what fething world is an $85 battlewagon suddenly worth $100? What a joke of a company. No additions, nothing new, just randomly $15 more.
Like at least add some sort of upgrade sprue with bits and extra weapons to slap on.
Umm... they did.
The Deff Rolla sprue is now in the box.
Of course that doesn't explain the massive increase in price (as mentioned on the last page, it's 25% more expensive than the old combined Battlewagon + Upgrade Sprue cost for literally nothing extra), but they did add something.
So in other words, yes, we really have reached the point of denying reality where we're going to call this "monopose", as if it the same as this.
I guess my GW Mono-Pose Stages of Acceptance list is no longer applicable as people have gone right point number 6 and in fact created a whole new point:
7. There never were any multi-pose minis. It was all a dream.
yukishiro1 wrote: GW used to make multipose character models now and then - chaos termie lord/ sorc lord, exalted sorcs kit, a few others too I think. They don't any more, that bit is true.
They do a lot of dual-pose characters though, like the nob on smasha squig, Thrakka or Mortarion. I feel like unless a character has some very extensive wargear (a SAG for example), this should be the minimum for something as central as a warboss.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
H.B.M.C. wrote: So in other words, yes, we really have reached the point of denying reality where we're going to call this "monopose", as if it the same as this.
I guess my GW Mono-Pose Stages of Acceptance list is no longer applicable as people have gone right point number 6 and in fact created a whole new point:
7. There never were any multi-pose minis. It was all a dream.
Or maybe you should be using a more differentiated vocabulary instead of calling every lack of customization you find to your disliking "mono-pose".
What they are saying with the Exalted sorcerer is that you cannot "repose" the bits, they go in an specific way.
Of course for me thats a distinction without a difference. Being able to rotate hips or arms with nearly total freedom in how they are attached to the body was good but ends up in a worse result than just having a ton of bitz designed to give you a ton of actual, interesting poses that allow you to mix and match to actually make your own. Both are multipose and for me the second is the best of both worlds, customization and variety of poses and options with the interesting posing of monopose.
If anybody says that the Exalted Sorcerer kit is worse than the Chaos Terminator Lord or the old Captain Marine kit , they are just bananas.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: In what fething world is an $85 battlewagon suddenly worth $100? What a joke of a company. No additions, nothing new, just randomly $15 more.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Like at least add some sort of upgrade sprue with bits and extra weapons to slap on.
I had to giggle when I looked at the price of the Stormraven in the GW store...
$106.00. Seriously, let's increase the cost of a kit that practically no one is buying anyway.
The other day I found a Stormraven I bought about seven-eight years or so ago. Still had the label on for £40 RRP. Got curious how much it is now.
Not Online!!! wrote: Has the mega armour warboss the other equipment options still allowed though in the codex?
Rules follow models. The Warboss in Mega-Armour has no options on his Data Sheet.
Not always, see Drukhari Succubus who can be equipped with weapons that were never included in her monopose kit and were even absent in the previous codexes. But the general trend is no model/bitz no rule, indeed.
Anyway to proxy the old Ghaz as it is as the new warboss in megarmour in no big deal, his klaw is a huge one and not a regular power klaw. It can definitely count as a 'uge choppa. Real "issue" is the base size as the new model is on 50mm and old ghaz has a 40mm. But for a character with a powerful aura a slighter smaller base is certainly more like a downside than an improvement, and gamewise a single model on 40mm instead of 50mm really doesn't make any difference. I've played this "count as" a few times already and no one complained so far.
H.B.M.C. wrote: So in other words, yes, we really have reached the point of denying reality where we're going to call this "monopose", as if it the same as this.
So you're saying your criteria for multipose is that you have a couple of weapon options, and not actual options to pose?
Again, I don't own those models, but when I looked at the sprues, there didn't look to be any posing options, and when I googled photos of community built ones, they all look the same as the ones on the GW site (unless they were kitbashed) which seems to confirm my suspicions that you don't have much in the way of posing options.
They're nice looking models, but they don't appear to be anything more than monopose with a couple of weapon options.
You need to get your terminology straight I think, multipose and monopose with options are two different things.
Monopose with options I'm quite happy with (Necromunda Goliath models are the obvious example).
7. There never were any multi-pose minis. It was all a dream.
We're talking specifically about characters in this instance, where multipose was never as big of a thing nor as desirable as it was for regular troops. I can think of examples (WHFB Orc Warboss was one I mentioned) but from my memory we didn't hit a critical mass where multipose characters were commonplace. Maybe I'm just misremembering, as I've faded in and out of interest with GW over the years. People who have consistently remained obsessed with GW over the decades might remember more accurately.
Arbitrator wrote: The other day I found a Stormraven I bought about seven-eight years or so ago. Still had the label on for £40 RRP. Got curious how much it is now.
£65!!!
"B-but inflation" my arse.
I used to feel bad for buying two extra battlewagons for 7th's formation, but it seems like I've made a long-term investment. They might be the next bitcoins!
So the Squig Riders are 45 euro for 4 plus a little squig buddy? Pricey enough. Anyone know what price the big squiggoth will be, or when it will be released? I've been waiting for decades for GW to release a Squig Rider model for 40K to replace the old Boar Boyz so I will likely get them anyway.
Da Boss wrote: So the Squig Riders are 45 euro for 4 plus a little squig buddy? Pricey enough. Anyone know what price the big squiggoth will be, or when it will be released? I've been waiting for decades for GW to release a Squig Rider model for 40K to replace the old Boar Boyz so I will likely get them anyway.
Do you mean the character kit? We haven't seen a price yet on him...I'd hazard a guess at around the $40(Lord-Aquilor for Stormcasts)-$55(Lord-Regent for Lumineth Realmlords) USD mark though. Lean towards the higher end since it builds a generic or a named character.
Sidenote: The Squig Riders are actually a bit larger than they appear to be. I'm slowly working my way through a Beastsnagga box as a commission project and they are on the same size base(75x42mm) as the Stormcast Vanguard-Palladors. They ain't weedy gits!
Snaggas Boyz are around 10 pounds more expensive than regular ones. So we better hope the new regular Boyz are gonna remain box-exclusive for a long time.
Da Boss wrote: So the Squig Riders are 45 euro for 4 plus a little squig buddy? Pricey enough. Anyone know what price the big squiggoth will be, or when it will be released? I've been waiting for decades for GW to release a Squig Rider model for 40K to replace the old Boar Boyz so I will likely get them anyway.
Do you mean the character kit? We haven't seen a price yet on him...I'd hazard a guess at around the $40(Lord-Aquilor for Stormcasts)-$55(Lord-Regent for Lumineth Realmlords) USD mark though. Lean towards the higher end since it builds a generic or a named character.
Sidenote:
The Squig Riders are actually a bit larger than they appear to be. I'm slowly working my way through a Beastsnagga box as a commission project and they are on the same size base(75x42mm) as the Stormcast Vanguard-Palladors. They ain't weedy gits!
Thanks. I just remembered seeing a big squig kit in the box and was wondering when it would come out. Good to know the Squig Bois are beefy. I'm looking forward to painting them.
He is part of the actual box for the Squighog Boyz. He's a FA character choice that is 2 of them "free" for the FOC if you have Squighog Boyz in your army. It's a Nob on Smasha Squig.
Spoiler:
This is the Great White Squig ridden by Mozrog Skragbad. He's an HQ choice--it also builds a Beastboss on Squigosaur.
We have no release date on this one just yet. He's what I'm thinking will be $55.
Honestly I I wouldn't be surprised if the Killrig would end up being 75£/125 USD... But knowing modern GW, it will probably end up as something like 76.25£
While I'm glad AoS will finally have pre-orders next week, I find it weir how they also paused Ork releases.
They referenced that Orktober came earlier this year. Would be a kick in the nuts if they actually waited until october to release the rest of ork stuff.
