Fezza213 wrote: every table top game expects you to buy miniatures and most expect you to buy books which have rules which increase the power of your army.
Do they?
I thought most games provided you with rules (free or for a cost) to use your models, period.
Not have the very same models be more or less powerful depending on which book you use to field them.
Whats wrong with that?
Pay for the book and your models are 20% better. seems fair.
I didn't say anything was wrong with that.
You agree it's a form of 'pay to win' though?
Are we really entering the discussion if it's pay to win? Seriously? In my opinion it makes it more fluffly GW did hint they are planning something for the older books I suspect it's going to involve the app.
shinros wrote: Are we really entering the discussion if it's pay to win? Seriously?
Do you mean it's ridiculous to have the discussion because it obviously is 'pay to win' or because it obviously is not?
If you believe that paying for "more options that may or may not be better than what everyone has" is "pay to win", then I take it you probably don't play 40k, or X-wing, or Armada, or Magic, or Warmahordes, etc.....
shinros wrote: Are we really entering the discussion if it's pay to win? Seriously?
Do you mean it's ridiculous to have the discussion because it obviously is 'pay to win' or because it obviously is not?
If you believe that paying for "more options that may or may not be better than what everyone has" is "pay to win", then I take it you probably don't play 40k, or X-wing, or Armada, or Magic, or Warmahordes, etc.....
"May or may not be better"?
Using your models in a (most) 40K formation(s) unquestionably makes them better than just using their main codex to build an army with them. Buying two books make the exact same models better in the game than using one.
Is that not a case of 'pay to win'?
shinros wrote: Are we really entering the discussion if it's pay to win? Seriously?
Do you mean it's ridiculous to have the discussion because it obviously is 'pay to win' or because it obviously is not?
If you believe that paying for "more options that may or may not be better than what everyone has" is "pay to win", then I take it you probably don't play 40k, or X-wing, or Armada, or Magic, or Warmahordes, etc.....
"May or may not be better"?
Using your models in a (most) 40K formation(s) unquestionably makes them better than just using their main codex to build an army with them. Buying two books make the exact same models better in the game than using one.
Is that not a case of 'pay to win'?
In 40k, that is a direct example of 'pay to win.'
Age of Sigmar has nothing like that at the moment, none the least with Matched play. The extra rules cost extra, as has been stated above.
When was the last time you saw Yakface post an anonymous rumor?
Faeit and Dakka work differently. When Faeit post his rumors from an 'anonymous' source, he becomes responsible for those rumors. If he's not willing to take even a modicum of effort to weed out his less reliable 'anonymous' sources, then his credibility suffers.
Dakka doesn't post rumors. Dakka users post rumors. If poster Joe Schmoe posts a bunch of 'anonymous' rumors that don't pan out, then it's Joe Schmoe's credibility that suffers. Dakka's credibility only suffers when the number of Joe Schmoe's far out weigh the number of Sad Pandas and Lady Atias.
Don't confuse the poster of the rumors with where the rumors are posted. Faeit the website may do a decent job at rumors, but Faeit the user lacks any credibility.
Sorry I have to disagree. On one hand you say Yakface doesn't post rumours so Dakka gets a bye or and escape of rumours posted but Faeit doesn't If Natfka owns the Faeit site and he is responsible the I guess Yakface is just as responsible How come it's ok to blame the Dakka poster to claim a rumour and it turns out false and Yakface doesn't get blamed but Faeit poster or rumour person doesn't get the blame but Natfka does?
It can't go different ways. If Natfka gets the blame because his sources are wrong, then that mean Yakface is wrong because he is letting us post false or wrong rumours as well. If Yakface can get a free pass then Natfka shouldn't get blamed either for what is posted on Faeit.
They are both the same, so again I say crapping on Natfka is crapping on Yakface. Just like how Yakface doesn't give out rumours, Natfka doesn't give out rumours either. If I am wrong about Natfka giving out rumours as his own, please show me then, and I will concede I am wrong.
Fezza213 wrote: every table top game expects you to buy miniatures and most expect you to buy books which have rules which increase the power of your army.
Do they?
I thought most games provided you with rules (free or for a cost) to use your models, period.
Not have the very same models be more or less powerful depending on which book you use to field them.
Whats wrong with that?
Pay for the book and your models are 20% better. seems fair.
I didn't say anything was wrong with that.
You agree it's a form of 'pay to win' though?
Oh I should of added :-P cause I was being sarcastic as hell lol. Expecting people to pay more money to win is total bs. pay for the better book or lose pay for better models or lose.
When was the last time you saw Yakface post an anonymous rumor?
Faeit and Dakka work differently. When Faeit post his rumors from an 'anonymous' source, he becomes responsible for those rumors. If he's not willing to take even a modicum of effort to weed out his less reliable 'anonymous' sources, then his credibility suffers.
Dakka doesn't post rumors. Dakka users post rumors. If poster Joe Schmoe posts a bunch of 'anonymous' rumors that don't pan out, then it's Joe Schmoe's credibility that suffers. Dakka's credibility only suffers when the number of Joe Schmoe's far out weigh the number of Sad Pandas and Lady Atias.
Don't confuse the poster of the rumors with where the rumors are posted. Faeit the website may do a decent job at rumors, but Faeit the user lacks any credibility.
Sorry I have to disagree. On one hand you say Yakface doesn't post rumours so Dakka gets a bye or and escape of rumours posted but Faeit doesn't If Natfka owns the Faeit site and he is responsible the I guess Yakface is just as responsible How come it's ok to blame the Dakka poster to claim a rumour and it turns out false and Yakface doesn't get blamed but Faeit poster or rumour person doesn't get the blame but Natfka does?
It can't go different ways. If Natfka gets the blame because his sources are wrong, then that mean Yakface is wrong because he is letting us post false or wrong rumours as well. If Yakface can get a free pass then Natfka shouldn't get blamed either for what is posted on Faeit.
They are both the same, so again I say crapping on Natfka is crapping on Yakface. Just like how Yakface doesn't give out rumours, Natfka doesn't give out rumours either. If I am wrong about Natfka giving out rumours as his own, please show me then, and I will concede I am wrong.
The poster is responsible for what he post, not the website he posts on unless it is his website. By your logic, your just as responsible for the crap Faeit posts just because you post here on Dakka.
shinros wrote: Are we really entering the discussion if it's pay to win? Seriously?
Do you mean it's ridiculous to have the discussion because it obviously is 'pay to win' or because it obviously is not?
If you believe that paying for "more options that may or may not be better than what everyone has" is "pay to win", then I take it you probably don't play 40k, or X-wing, or Armada, or Magic, or Warmahordes, etc.....
"May or may not be better"?
Using your models in a (most) 40K formation(s) unquestionably makes them better than just using their main codex to build an army with them. Buying two books make the exact same models better in the game than using one.
Is that not a case of 'pay to win'?
In 40k, that is a direct example of 'pay to win.'
Age of Sigmar has nothing like that at the moment, none the least with Matched play. The extra rules cost extra, as has been stated above.
Ok, then I stand corrected.
We'll see if (and if so, how soon) those kind of formations is introduced in AoS in the future.
Uh, where's the power creep people are talking about? I don't see it. More options doesn't mean those options are better. And the grand alliance abilities anyone can get are pretty good. This is on top of the option to, you know, just play without points or use a fan comp. It's hardly pay to win because if your opponent is using the Generals Handbook benefits then guess what? It's right there for you to use as well. Your opponent has a nifty new battletome? Use the generic options. Or just don't use the allegiance benefits at all. There are so many holes and ways around this that any cries of power creep are only guesses at what may come with only circumstantial evidence to support it.
Or hey, believe that there is power creep (and that GW hasn't changed at all) and just leave the game behind since its clearly going downhill. The rest of us will just have to enjoy AoS on our own.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Uh, where's the power creep people are talking about? I don't see it. More options doesn't mean those options are better. And the grand alliance abilities anyone can get are pretty good. This is on top of the option to, you know, just play without points or use a fan comp. It's hardly pay to win because if your opponent is using the Generals Handbook benefits then guess what? It's right there for you to use as well. Your opponent has a nifty new battletome? Use the generic options. Or just don't use the allegiance benefits at all. There are so many holes and ways around this that any cries of power creep are only guesses at what may come with only circumstantial evidence to support it.
Or hey, believe that there is power creep (and that GW hasn't changed at all) and just leave the game behind since its clearly going downhill. The rest of us will just have to enjoy AoS on our own.
Yep. More options =/= better. The new stuff is cool and fluffy but from the initial reviews I have listened to they are not simply "Generals Handbook rules +1" - they are thematically interesting options. They all seem to be very much in keeping with making a pure Sylvaneth army play as differently as possible from an Order army that includes Sylvaneth rather than power creep.
The only whinge I have is that I want the already released Battle Tome to get an update sooner rather than later because I want to run a pure Fyreslayers army and don't want to miss out on the nice Allegiance abilities!
Hate to keep derailing this thread (sorry mods), but doesn't the app make the whole "i've got a shiny Battletome and you don't!" thing moot?
You can get the formations there as well and the Facebook confirmed they're going to add alot of stuff from the handbook into it as well.
I'm really not seeing the creep part other than what some people who do everything in their power to get ahead and win will cause. But those people are unavoidable in every system. (Sadly :-( )
Looking at what we have seen so far of the sylvaneth , it seems the overriding aim is to give the player more choice and flexibility, rather than more power. The alliegence abilities and artefacts are all in the generals handbook so every army that sticks to a grand Alliance will have access to this.
The spell lore seems to be a different approach to magic rather than a more powerful one. To take the flesh eaters book for example, there are three heroes that each have their won unique spell. It seems like the sylvaneth books heroes will not have their own spells but will be able to choose one from the lore instead. This is a great change I think. It lets people make unique heroes.
As an aside I am very impressed with the work James Hewitt has done so far. He was responsible for betrayal at Calth, silver tower and the Slyvaneth rules. He has been working on blood bowl too which is very encouraging for that project.
There has been a lot of talk about GW losing their most talented designers but if they are able hire more people like James, the future will be bright.
To get back to AOS, I am very much looking forward to a Tzeentch Arcanite battletome in the new style though it seems we will be getting bonesplittas and beastclaw raiders first.
I wonder if you generate spells or know them all.
If you have the core rule generic spells as a base and just randomly generate one from the spell table, it sounds really hard to get the spell you like.
Then again, if you get lots of rolls or even know the whole lore its a huge advantage to any wizard that dont have a spell lore yet.
Perhaps you trade in the generic spells for 3 rolls on the lore table?
Perhaps you buy spells (for points), that would be new.
Fayric wrote: I wonder if you generate spells or know them all.
If you have the core rule generic spells as a base and just randomly generate one from the spell table, it sounds really hard to get the spell you like.
Then again, if you get lots of rolls or even know the whole lore its a huge advantage to any wizard that dont have a spell lore yet.
Perhaps you trade in the generic spells for 3 rolls on the lore table?
Perhaps you buy spells (for points), that would be new.
There are six spells. Each wizard can choose one. Each wizard or hero can also choose one magical item from a list of six. There are also six command abilities to choose from. You can just pick one or you can roll depending on what you and your opponent decide. I imagine that every battletome will have these lists of six going forward. The generals handbook contains all of these lists except the spells.
Fayric wrote: I wonder if you generate spells or know them all.
If you have the core rule generic spells as a base and just randomly generate one from the spell table, it sounds really hard to get the spell you like.
Then again, if you get lots of rolls or even know the whole lore its a huge advantage to any wizard that dont have a spell lore yet.
Perhaps you trade in the generic spells for 3 rolls on the lore table?
Perhaps you buy spells (for points), that would be new.
There are six spells. Each wizard can choose one. Each wizard or hero can also choose one magical item from a list of six. There are also six command abilities to choose from. You can just pick one or you can roll depending on what you and your opponent decide. I imagine that every battletome will have these lists of six going forward. The generals handbook contains all of these lists except the spells.
Great! The magic need something to make it interresting IMO.
It has been kind of silly to see such lame spells for this supposedly uber fantastical magic-made-manifest kind of setting.
We played a 2 on 2 Warhost battle this weekend and discovered some cool balancing mechanisms within the matched play lists. I have been running a pure Ironjawz army. It has been crushing a lot of armies lately. When I constructed the army using the points system, I found out that the only way to satisfy the Battleline unit requirements was to choose the Ironjawz Allegiance. Normally, I could choose either Destruction or Ironjawz, but since my Brutes and Gore Gruntas are only Battleline (and I don't really use Ard Boyz) if I choose Ironjawz Allegiance, I had to go with Ironjawz. Since I chose Ironjawz Allegiance, I did not get all of the cool Allegiance abilities (there are no Allegiance Ironjawz perks). Maybe the Sylvaneth book will give them Allegiance perks so they can run pure Sylvaneth. I think this is a problem only Ironjawz face because the other new armies have units that are Battleline without having to be their own Allegiance. I think I can also run more Ard boyz and choose Destruction (I don't really think of them as Ironjawz). Anyway, the point I am making is that my really powerful Ironjawz army was balanced by not getting cool Allegiance abilities.
I do like some of the artwork for AoS, and dislike some of it. What I think tho, is that what they're aiming for is both focus on the models, since they are the things we'll buy, and on the atmosphere. This isn't the old WHFB where there was "Fantasy 1500 Germany" "Fantasy 1300 France" "Fantasy dark Canada" and things that were familiar, but cranked up few notches. I own a good few of old WHFB books, and while the art was great, it clashed with the models, as they looked rather "poor" compared to the artwork. Heck, even up to 5th Edition 40K the artwork was much superior to the models themselves. Now the models are, at least in my opinion, much more detailed than the artwork, because those are the selling point of the game. The generic feeling is because we're not having any specific piece of lore to work with, plus they're giving us players a lot of space to create our own worlds.
I for once welcome the change from gorgeous, specific artwork feeling familiar to this new one. Some of the art isn't great, I agree, but so is, for me, John Blanche's art.
Ordered nearly every Battletome and all the Realmgate books to play catch up, never been so excited for AoS, all these upcoming changes and additions with the Sylvaneth are glorious. One of my disappointments initially with Sigmar was the lack of spell lores and it felt really generic like 'oh just one spell for a character yipee.'
Only problem I also ordered the handbook which I forgot doesn't release till the 23rd so I think I will have to wait till then for my books.
Eagerly awaiting a Vampire Battletome with I hope new plastic Vamps, my god I would be so fething ready!
I also hope whatever force wins the campaign gets a nice piece of victory artwork in the next book.
I was thinking AoS might be GW's attempt to shrink a bloated WHFB range, but it seems they are releasing just as many kits as they've culled.
While I think the zombie-trees are nice models, I prefer the dryads and will be using them as counts as if I do take the plunge with Sylvaneth.
The biggest hold-up for me is that really cool everqueen model. It's awesome but $130 for a single miniature---especially one that is so delicate is making me think about what I could sell from my gaming stuff
The biggest hold-up for me is that really cool everqueen model. It's awesome but $130 for a single miniature
This is one of my problems with AoS as well. WFB was horrendously expensive in 8th edition because of the volume of models you needed at GW's prices. Now we have a game that seems to want to play at a smaller scale and rather than learning their lesson on cost, GW has just made their new kits horrendously priced to match the shift in army scale. Look at these new kits: 5 tree-revenants are 45 CAD. That's 9 dollars for a model a pretty slight infantry model.
As a relatively geeky dude, am I going to spend ~50 on just one box of models or on a relatively similarly priced computer game that I will be guaranteed to get 10x the time value out of?
As a relatively geeky dude, am I going to spend ~50 on just one box of models or on a relatively similarly priced computer game that I will be guaranteed to get 10x the time value out of?
Kinda funny you say that because I tend to get 10x as much time value out of minis compared to computer games
Well, if you believe that you will get 10x the value out of a different product, then buy that product. If you believe that you'd rather have the models, buy them.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not falling over myself to buy the new AoS miniatures, but I'm not going to criticise the price just because I don't like them enough to buy them at that price point instead of something I like more.
Fayric wrote: Great! The magic need something to make it interresting IMO.
It has been kind of silly to see such lame spells for this supposedly uber fantastical magic-made-manifest kind of setting.
Yeah this was one big surprise for me with whole AOS. When whole idea of game was to throw any idea of balanced points etc out and leave players sort it for themselves it would have been excelent spot to make really wacky magic rules.
Instead they gave magic that would have been more suited for games that aim to offer high balance which means for starters random effects needs to be toned down. More suited for kings of war.
The line they took isn't bad per se but if you are creating ruleset that suits more b&p rather than competive felt bit "huh? Did somebody slip in wrong magic rules in?"
I was thinking AoS might be GW's attempt to shrink a bloated WHFB range, but it seems they are releasing just as many kits as they've culled.
But how long will they keep the models on sale? Models sells best when they are young. Many of the culled models have been around for quite a while so turnout rate is pretty slow from getting to stores to being retired. If they accelerate that range that accomplishesh shrinking of range. New models come to get their 3 months or so hypersale faster without causing steady increase of range you upkeep.
I think they are still trying to find the right price for their miniatures. They have stubbornly said that they would not drop the price, then they made a bunch of start collecting boxes where they dramatically dropped the price. They also made a bunch of boxed games (Renegades, Gore Chosen, Silver Tower Character Expansion) where your savings are even better. The pricing in AOS is all over the place. Many of the boxes of 5 figures are over priced. On the other hand,the army center piece models (Nagash, Stardrake, Maw Crusha, The Sylvaneth Everqueen) are totally worth the price. In the hobby gaming universe, miniature games have always been the most expensive, with the exception of the Magic card game(and if you magic players think it is cheaper because a pack is 5 bucks, you are deluding yourself. How many BOXES of packs have you bought?).
...Path to Glory, which will be familiar to Chaos players who picked up the ebooks from Black Library last Christmas. In a nutshell, you pick a leader, then roll for or choose their retinue. You then play through a variety of battles to accrue Glory Points. The player to first gain a certain number of Glory Points (the default is 10, but you can change that for shorter or longer campaigns – 10 will see you complete the campaign over a long Saturday or lazy weekend) wins!
The big change between what is presented here and the Path to Glory campaign released last Christmas, however, is that it is no longer restricted to Chaos forces.
Warband tables have been included not only for Chaos forces, but also Stormcasts, Fyreslayers, Skaven, Ironjawz, Sylvaneth and Death armies. It is very easy to imagine that not only is this quite a simple list for GW to expand upon later with new forces, but a great many will start springing up, designed by players, to handle older forces – I would expect to see Freeguild warband tables appearing online very quickly!
Path to Glory has two Battleplans included, both from the Christmas release (The Monolith and Beast’s Lair – the latter is quite fun!), but you can use any Battleplans for this campaign. Simply agree a Battleplan with your opponent and fight!
Smellingsalts wrote: I think they are still trying to find the right price for their miniatures. They have stubbornly said that they would not drop the price, then they made a bunch of start collecting boxes where they dramatically dropped the price. They also made a bunch of boxed games (Renegades, Gore Chosen, Silver Tower Character Expansion) where your savings are even better. The pricing in AOS is all over the place. Many of the boxes of 5 figures are over priced. On the other hand,the army center piece models (Nagash, Stardrake, Maw Crusha, The Sylvaneth Everqueen) are totally worth the price. In the hobby gaming universe, miniature games have always been the most expensive, with the exception of the Magic card game(and if you magic players think it is cheaper because a pack is 5 bucks, you are deluding yourself. How many BOXES of packs have you bought?).
New box that offers discount isn't making prices cheaper and isn't even comparable to flat out reducing prices of models themselves.
Yes it makes models cheaper per se but often by tempting player to buy something they wouldn't have bought anyway. Players spend MORE money in the end but are happier doing because they feel it's worth more.
I dont think the prices are unreasonable. I got into Warmachine Hordes because I was led to believe model count was low and prices were better. Not the case.
A Gargantuan which is the equivalent in price and size as other center piece models but lacks the detail, and extra's.
I also see this among many other units, price per model is the same or higher and lacks all the extra's that GW packs into their sprues.
Not to mention how clean GW models are and need very little prep work. All of this to me is worth the cost, most of the time equal cost, some times higher, but worth it to someone who is Hobby first, game second.
I dont see as much complaining about PP models though because the rules and community are great. I bet no one would whine about GW prices if the rules were tight and fair and the community more enjoyable.
Smellingsalts wrote: I think they are still trying to find the right price for their miniatures. They have stubbornly said that they would not drop the price, then they made a bunch of start collecting boxes where they dramatically dropped the price. They also made a bunch of boxed games (Renegades, Gore Chosen, Silver Tower Character Expansion) where your savings are even better. The pricing in AOS is all over the place. Many of the boxes of 5 figures are over priced. On the other hand,the army center piece models (Nagash, Stardrake, Maw Crusha, The Sylvaneth Everqueen) are totally worth the price. In the hobby gaming universe, miniature games have always been the most expensive, with the exception of the Magic card game(and if you magic players think it is cheaper because a pack is 5 bucks, you are deluding yourself. How many BOXES of packs have you bought?).
New box that offers discount isn't making prices cheaper and isn't even comparable to flat out reducing prices of models themselves.
Yes it makes models cheaper per se but often by tempting player to buy something they wouldn't have bought anyway. Players spend MORE money in the end but are happier doing because they feel it's worth more.
Considering the contents and the discount, it's quite likely that players would have bought those models anyway with maybe one unit on the side that they wouldn't have. And they will have gotten it for less than buying on its own. So really, people will be happier because what they got IS worth more even in the objective sense.
This is GW, a new army will always cost 500-600 no matther what the rules look like or how much the model count is reduced
Chopxsticks wrote: I dont think the prices are unreasonable. I got into Warmachine Hordes because I was led to believe model count was low and prices were better. Not the case.
Depends on what you are playing
I got into WM, got the most expensiv faction there and it a tournament army was still half the price than what a new tournament-ready army would have cost for 40k (better said it cost me less than bring my Marines back on a playable level)
And while some bigger models don't have that much details, they actually look different and are not just a copy&paste CAD model (like the new tree monster has the same pose like a imperial knight or chaos dread)
Smellingsalts wrote: I think they are still trying to find the right price for their miniatures. They have stubbornly said that they would not drop the price, then they made a bunch of start collecting boxes where they dramatically dropped the price. They also made a bunch of boxed games (Renegades, Gore Chosen, Silver Tower Character Expansion) where your savings are even better. The pricing in AOS is all over the place. Many of the boxes of 5 figures are over priced. On the other hand,the army center piece models (Nagash, Stardrake, Maw Crusha, The Sylvaneth Everqueen) are totally worth the price. In the hobby gaming universe, miniature games have always been the most expensive, with the exception of the Magic card game(and if you magic players think it is cheaper because a pack is 5 bucks, you are deluding yourself. How many BOXES of packs have you bought?).
New box that offers discount isn't making prices cheaper and isn't even comparable to flat out reducing prices of models themselves.
Yes it makes models cheaper per se but often by tempting player to buy something they wouldn't have bought anyway. Players spend MORE money in the end but are happier doing because they feel it's worth more.
Considering the contents and the discount, it's quite likely that players would have bought those models anyway with maybe one unit on the side that they wouldn't have. And they will have gotten it for less than buying on its own. So really, people will be happier because what they got IS worth more even in the objective sense.
Not claiming they aren't worth but it's not reducing price of models. It's well known marketing trick that works out better for GW than just reducing prices flat out.
So just because they are offering start collecting boxes don't expect price decreases for units. Individual boxes keep going up high even for new releases. If we are lucky they will keep prices stable for next decade or so(hahaha) resulting in effective price drop but that's about it.
They aren't wondering about price. Just experimenting new ways to sell.
As a relatively geeky dude, am I going to spend ~50 on just one box of models or on a relatively similarly priced computer game that I will be guaranteed to get 10x the time value out of?
Kinda funny you say that because I tend to get 10x as much time value out of minis compared to computer games
This is actually my logic. Up until 6 years ago I was a huge video gamer. But with the decline of quality titles in the Video Game industry, and the 'always good' essence at the heart of miniature gaming, I can't stomach a $60 dollar game.
1: They place 1 price on models and leave it as that for years. So they risk market crashing ect, usa dollar dropped so they where buying models cheaper then expected for a while.
Also places like walmart change prices on items weekly and the increase never bothers anyone because it is slow.
Subway use to charge 4.95$ for a pizza sub. Then a year later 5.50$ two years later 6.25$ now it is 7.25$. So almost a 3$ increase in about 6 years.
2: they price models basd on how many someone will buy. 20 clan rats where 40$, 1 globadiar was 16$
Bloodthrister is 5$ cheaper then scar brand and you get two sprus just like the blood thrister and all the sprus are the same size.
So if they expect people to only buy 1 and not everyone will want one high price. If everyone will want them and you need tons lot less money.
Smellingsalts wrote: I think they are still trying to find the right price for their miniatures. They have stubbornly said that they would not drop the price, then they made a bunch of start collecting boxes where they dramatically dropped the price. They also made a bunch of boxed games (Renegades, Gore Chosen, Silver Tower Character Expansion) where your savings are even better. The pricing in AOS is all over the place. Many of the boxes of 5 figures are over priced. On the other hand,the army center piece models (Nagash, Stardrake, Maw Crusha, The Sylvaneth Everqueen) are totally worth the price. In the hobby gaming universe, miniature games have always been the most expensive, with the exception of the Magic card game(and if you magic players think it is cheaper because a pack is 5 bucks, you are deluding yourself. How many BOXES of packs have you bought?).
New box that offers discount isn't making prices cheaper and isn't even comparable to flat out reducing prices of models themselves.
Yes it makes models cheaper per se but often by tempting player to buy something they wouldn't have bought anyway. Players spend MORE money in the end but are happier doing because they feel it's worth more.
Considering the contents and the discount, it's quite likely that players would have bought those models anyway with maybe one unit on the side that they wouldn't have. And they will have gotten it for less than buying on its own. So really, people will be happier because what they got IS worth more even in the objective sense.
Not claiming they aren't worth but it's not reducing price of models. It's well known marketing trick that works out better for GW than just reducing prices flat out.
So just because they are offering start collecting boxes don't expect price decreases for units. Individual boxes keep going up high even for new releases. If we are lucky they will keep prices stable for next decade or so(hahaha) resulting in effective price drop but that's about it.
They aren't wondering about price. Just experimenting new ways to sell.
Were the discount less steep I would agree, but in this case I think people really do end up spending notably less for notably more. The Start Collecting: Seraphon box or Skeleton Horde are the best examples of this; they cost effectively the same as buying just the centerpiece model on its own yet come with all the extra troops.
[edit] In other words, barring those customers who only want a single kit for a panting competition or such the price for miniatures to play AoS goes down.
Well, looks like the Sylvaneth were priced much more cheaply than the Fyreslayers. Seemed to pay off as they sold out their stock too. Hopefully GW have found a good pricing median with this latest release.
The biggest hold-up for me is that really cool everqueen model. It's awesome but $130 for a single miniature
This is one of my problems with AoS as well. WFB was horrendously expensive in 8th edition because of the volume of models you needed at GW's prices. Now we have a game that seems to want to play at a smaller scale and rather than learning their lesson on cost, GW has just made their new kits horrendously priced to match the shift in army scale. Look at these new kits: 5 tree-revenants are 45 CAD. That's 9 dollars for a model a pretty slight infantry model.
As a relatively geeky dude, am I going to spend ~50 on just one box of models or on a relatively similarly priced computer game that I will be guaranteed to get 10x the time value out of?[/quote
AoS pricing has been kind of screwy from the start but the Start Collecting boxes have been really good.
I know that Sylvaneth are a new release so they're going for maximum reasonable price, from their standpoint.
I'm actually a fan of AoS and think you can play very reasonably depending on which army/armies you go for.
For example, if you are willing to play with basic level of variety buying 2 starter boxes for $250 max gets you 2 very nice forces of stormcast & khorne.
More than price by itself, I'm more nervous about delicate model design.
I'm careful with my miniatures but I just know that slender elf queen and spindly bits would be destroyed by any actual gaming where I play It's a beautiful model but its kind of impractical, at least to me.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And I manage to screw up the quote thing for the umptieth time
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Bottle wrote: Well, looks like the Sylvaneth were priced much more cheaply than the Fyreslayers. Seemed to pay off as they sold out their stock too. Hopefully GW have found a good pricing median with this latest release.
Agreed. Probably learned a pricing lesson with the dwarves, I'm thinking.
Bottle wrote: Well, looks like the Sylvaneth were priced much more cheaply than the Fyreslayers. Seemed to pay off as they sold out their stock too. Hopefully GW have found a good pricing median with this latest release.
Indeed, the evolution of AOS has shown that GW can turn the course of the ship, even if they have to grind the hull against the iceberg and sack the captain in the process.
Bottle wrote: Well, looks like the Sylvaneth were priced much more cheaply than the Fyreslayers. Seemed to pay off as they sold out their stock too. Hopefully GW have found a good pricing median with this latest release.
Sometimes, I suspect that GW pricing is an exercise in pricing flexibility experimentation Often, there is seemingly little rhyme or reason as to how new releases get priced.
I love the Sylvaneth models, though. I think if I were to start AoS in earnest, it would be with them. But that's so far off in my modelling adventures... I want to finish my Blood Angels, re-do my entire Eldar army, paint up the Silver Tower box, model a new Necron army, paint a few Tau pieces just for fun, catch up on my Imperial Guard... By the time I get to Sylvaneth, they'll be re-releasing it, LOL.
Cataphract wrote:Any word for the Steamhead Duardin?
The most exciting bit of news I can give you is the Sylvaneth battletome has a battalion that can include units with the "Duardin" keyword. As fire and forests don't usually mix well, I would expect there will be some Dwarves released in the future that are friends of the forest.
Doesn't really sound like Steamhead lol, maybe "Amber Duardin". They could be sages that guard the forest spirits. Maybe they could all have pointy red hats and a fondness of fishing.
There is also a city in the campaign called Greywater Fastness that was built with Magic and Steam Technology. All the units we would consider "steamhead" are currently the Duardin half of the Ironweld Arsonal. Maybe the city will get expanded upon if it survives the summer.
Accolade wrote:
Bottle wrote: Well, looks like the Sylvaneth were priced much more cheaply than the Fyreslayers. Seemed to pay off as they sold out their stock too. Hopefully GW have found a good pricing median with this latest release.
Indeed, the evolution of AOS has shown that GW can turn the course of the ship, even if they have to grind the hull against the iceberg and sack the captain in the process.
Agreed. Too bad for Fyreslayer players though as their models are "locked" into this higher pricing and won't seem good value for another 5-10 years when inflation catches up.
Talys wrote:
Bottle wrote: Well, looks like the Sylvaneth were priced much more cheaply than the Fyreslayers. Seemed to pay off as they sold out their stock too. Hopefully GW have found a good pricing median with this latest release.
Sometimes, I suspect that GW pricing is an exercise in pricing flexibility experimentation Often, there is seemingly little rhyme or reason as to how new releases get priced.
I love the Sylvaneth models, though. I think if I were to start AoS in earnest, it would be with them. But that's so far off in my modelling adventures... I want to finish my Blood Angels, re-do my entire Eldar army, paint up the Silver Tower box, model a new Necron army, paint a few Tau pieces just for fun, catch up on my Imperial Guard... By the time I get to Sylvaneth, they'll be re-releasing it, LOL.
@Bottle, That's really interesting about the Sylvaneths and Duardin alliance.
I could actually see it being the steamhead Duardin if they keep the dwarfen principle that good machinery doesn't need wooden parts, only stone and metal.
The only reason the old dwarfs bothered with trees was for fuel. If they use energy sources like the realm stones then they don't need to bother the forest at all. (Save perhaps for roads)
Baron Klatz wrote: @Bottle, That's really interesting about the Sylvaneths and Duardin alliance.
I could actually see it being the steamhead Duardin if they keep the dwarfen principle that good machinery doesn't need wooden parts, only stone and metal.
The only reason the old dwarfs bothered with trees was for fuel. If they use energy sources like the realm stones then they don't need to bother the forest at all. (Save perhaps for roads)
Problem is that the sylvaneth and their goddess quite dislike the industrial city that was made in the realm of life and have come to blows sometimes.
Bottle wrote: Well, looks like the Sylvaneth were priced much more cheaply than the Fyreslayers. Seemed to pay off as they sold out their stock too. Hopefully GW have found a good pricing median with this latest release.
Sometimes, I suspect that GW pricing is an exercise in pricing flexibility experimentation Often, there is seemingly little rhyme or reason as to how new releases get priced.
I love the Sylvaneth models, though. I think if I were to start AoS in earnest, it would be with them. But that's so far off in my modelling adventures... I want to finish my Blood Angels, re-do my entire Eldar army, paint up the Silver Tower box, model a new Necron army, paint a few Tau pieces just for fun, catch up on my Imperial Guard... By the time I get to Sylvaneth, they'll be re-releasing it, LOL.
I know that feeling. I just bought the Grand Alliance: Chaos battletome last week, then went home and opened my closet. I'm completely out of space to put unassembled models. Need to put a dent in those Space Marines and finish those Genestealer Cultists before I can even think about buying any Slaves to Darkness.
cyberjonesy wrote: Kind of silly that the FAQ about wizards casting stacking the same spell on a unit directly contradicts the new "three rules of one" where no spell may be cast more than once even from different wizards...
It's not silly, the core rules still allow spells to be cast multiple times by different wizards, and this FAQ is for the core rules. What you're talking about are the optional Pitched Battle rules.
"Optional" lol, like anyone is going to play non-pitched battle games now that it exists.
The new points/rules for pitched battles make the game fun again. No more shenanigans, no more wracking your brain on how to have a fun even match. Actual strategy and limitations breeds fun games, this wide open crap was a pain in the butt.
And for 25 bucks, that is a perfect price point.
Gorgeous models, nice kits, a sound rule set, and actual information leading up to a release. Sounds good to me.
Also, those of you mentioning "pubic vines", get a life/sig other, if you think that's what pubic anything looks like you haven't been out much.
cyberjonesy wrote: Kind of silly that the FAQ about wizards casting stacking the same spell on a unit directly contradicts the new "three rules of one" where no spell may be cast more than once even from different wizards...
It's not silly, the core rules still allow spells to be cast multiple times by different wizards, and this FAQ is for the core rules. What you're talking about are the optional Pitched Battle rules.
"Optional" lol, like anyone is going to play non-pitched battle games now that it exists.
The new points/rules for pitched battles make the game fun again. No more shenanigans, no more wracking your brain on how to have a fun even match. Actual strategy and limitations breeds fun games, this wide open crap was a pain in the butt.
And for 25 bucks, that is a perfect price point.
Gorgeous models, nice kits, a sound rule set, and actual information leading up to a release. Sounds good to me.
Also, those of you mentioning "pubic vines", get a life/sig other, if you think that's what pubic anything looks like you haven't been out much.
Ive never had a problem with aos without points. Always fun, never had shennanigans, and so on
cyberjonesy wrote: Kind of silly that the FAQ about wizards casting stacking the same spell on a unit directly contradicts the new "three rules of one" where no spell may be cast more than once even from different wizards...
It's not silly, the core rules still allow spells to be cast multiple times by different wizards, and this FAQ is for the core rules. What you're talking about are the optional Pitched Battle rules.
"Optional" lol, like anyone is going to play non-pitched battle games now that it exists.
The new points/rules for pitched battles make the game fun again. No more shenanigans, no more wracking your brain on how to have a fun even match. Actual strategy and limitations breeds fun games, this wide open crap was a pain in the butt.
And for 25 bucks, that is a perfect price point.
I am totally fine not buying this book and have never had an issue with the lack of points. So, there most assuredly will be people ignoring the pitched battle things you speak of.
cyberjonesy wrote: Kind of silly that the FAQ about wizards casting stacking the same spell on a unit directly contradicts the new "three rules of one" where no spell may be cast more than once even from different wizards...
It's not silly, the core rules still allow spells to be cast multiple times by different wizards, and this FAQ is for the core rules. What you're talking about are the optional Pitched Battle rules.
"Optional" lol, like anyone is going to play non-pitched battle games now that it exists.
The new points/rules for pitched battles make the game fun again. No more shenanigans, no more wracking your brain on how to have a fun even match. Actual strategy and limitations breeds fun games, this wide open crap was a pain in the butt.
And for 25 bucks, that is a perfect price point.
Gorgeous models, nice kits, a sound rule set, and actual information leading up to a release. Sounds good to me.
Also, those of you mentioning "pubic vines", get a life/sig other, if you think that's what pubic anything looks like you haven't been out much.
My local GW store guy who went to the training day says that while the pitched battles are good for pick up games but the narrative events were a lot more fun. You can of course use points in narrative events if you want to.
I think this is pretty important from faefit it seems that many of us need to call GW customer service in the morning. I want my all-gates book. D:
Anything ordered with the General's Handbook will not ship until the
handbook does.
That means if you ordered all the awesome new Sylvaneth
stuff last Saturday with the Handbook (as I did) you won't get it until the
23rd unless you contact customer service and have them split the orders up.
I know this because I emailed them this weekend asking if that was the case
and this morning they promptly cancelled my initial order and reestablished
it into two parts.
For those complaining about the Sylvaneth preorders being sold out
Spoiler:
Wow! You guys sure loved those Sylvaneth.
Demand for these models has been so high that we’ve sold out of some kits in most territories online. Don’t panic though – we’re making more right now, and expect to have them back on sale within the next few weeks.
I really hope GW sees the price banding for these models, coupled with their major sales, and sets this as the standard for future releases. It would do a ton to help bring people into the game.
Accolade wrote: I really hope GW sees the price banding for these models, coupled with their major sales, and sets this as the standard for future releases. It would do a ton to help bring people into the game.
They are doing good things so far if you check their stock it has sligthly gone up now if it stays that way that's another question. With all business they can easily slip into bad habits again which I don't want to happen. The community stuff, interviews with rule designers etc I hope they keep this up.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Guys take this with a grain of salt but on facebook possibly good news for death fans! On the topic about the out of stock sylvaneth due to high demand someone asked about death.
Poster 1: Now we just need some new death models to counter all this life nonsense.
New zombies? Pretty please with entrails on top?
Poster 2: I have ten thousand unliving servants crossing their fingers for a Soulblight release with plastic characters and vampire infantry/cavalry.
Warhammer Age of Sigmar We'll pass the request on to Nagash, and see what he can summon from the magics of Shyish.
Like · Reply · 21 · 8 hrs
GUYS PRESS THEM WE NEED NEW ZOMBIES AND PLASTIC VAMPIRES.
I also found this funny post as well.
On the Twelfth day of Deathmas,
Nagash sent to me
Twelve deathlords drumming
Eleven fell bats flying
Ten vampire lords a-leaping
Nine Lahmians dancing
Eight mortis engines a-moaning
Seven tomb banshees croaning
Six ghouls a-flaying
Five zombie hordes abaying
Four cairn wraiths swinging
Three mortarchs singing
Two terrorgheist in chic
and blood knights made of plastic (hold the iiii in plastic here for effect)
I'm not sure if this was mentioned already, though I find it odd that Generals Handbook is contains new units for Bonesplittas and Beastclaw Raiders but nothing for any of the factions rumored to be getting the next big updates.
Specifically I think I remember both SadPanda and Atia saying that Tzeench was getting a lot of stuff around the same time as Warzone Fenris 2 this fall, but both the Arcanites and Daemons sections only list the existing units. Not to mention the Steamhead Duardin which Atia had suggested might be late this year or early next year, and I would assume have started production by now.
It could be that Bonesplittas and Beastclaw Raiders had their production started before the Generals Handbook, but it then begs the questions of how these releases slipped under the radar and why Sylvaneth was able to release before them but still have the new Handbook style additions?
Jack Flask wrote: I'm not sure if this was mentioned already, though I find it odd that Generals Handbook is contains new units for Bonesplittas and Beastclaw Raiders but nothing for any of the factions rumored to be getting the next big updates.
Specifically I think I remember both SadPanda and Atia saying that Tzeench was getting a lot of stuff around the same time as Warzone Fenris 2 this fall, but both the Arcanites and Daemons sections only list the existing units. Not to mention the Steamhead Duardin which Atia had suggested might be late this year or early next year, and I would assume have started production by now.
It could be that Bonesplittas and Beastclaw Raiders had their production started before the Generals Handbook, but it then begs the questions of how these releases slipped under the radar and why Sylvaneth was able to release before them but still have the new Handbook style additions?
Presumably releases that are further out included yet; it would be names and points with no warscrolls to go with them. I suspect the Beastclaw and Bonesplittaz releases will be along the lines of Flesh Eaters with no new model releases but several new/reworked warscrolls.
Season of War Campaign: Week 1 - A Clash of Battlelines
Here it is, the first battle plan for the Season of War campaign. Ready your troops to either defend or attack The Living City. Starts on the 14th July 2016.
This battle plan is all about picking the right units for the job. Of course as this is narrative, the battle plan asks you to pick a force as per the AoS rules. But why not integrate the matched play points system? As this is an escalation campaign, below is the way I would adapt this campaign to be more competitive and probably a little more fun to play. Of course this is only my opinion and you should adapt it to how you want to play, unless your lazy... then just use mine.
The Armies:
Player choose their armies as described in the Generals Handbook, Pitched Battles, I recommend 1000pts (Varanguard). Each army must consist of at least 3 Battleline units and no more than 2 behemoths and 2 artillery. You should only choose units from the same Alliance.
The Battlefield:
This battle takes place on the outskirts of the city, in Player A's deployment zone, set up a fortress wall and a few ruins. In Player B's deployment zone, set up woods and rivers.
Set-Up:
Battline Units must be deployed first alternating between players and must be set up in the players Front Line at least 3" away from the enemy. All other units must be set up in the players territory.
Only Battleline units can be classed as reinforcements and the added command ability can only affect battle line units.
Once you have played the battle plan, post up the results to this site, give a small battle report to go along with it, if you want to add some narrative as well all the better.
Of course the other way to score points for your Alliance is to post up a blog showing pictures of a completed painted war scroll.
Remember this directly affects the timeline of The Age of Sigmar! Good Luck!
Requizen wrote: Ugh, all this news and hype is making me want to start this game. But my 40k armies still sit unfinished...
Same for me, as well as Warmahordes and Dropzone Commander stuff are unfinished, and I still buy more. Argh. Damn plastic crack. Just N E E D T O C O L L E C T .
Requizen wrote: Ugh, all this news and hype is making me want to start this game. But my 40k armies still sit unfinished...
Same for me, as well as Warmahordes and Dropzone Commander stuff are unfinished, and I still buy more. Argh. Damn plastic crack. Just N E E D T O C O L L E C T .
Hoping I'll be able to participate in the next global campaign.
Really want to know when they will give the Armies of Man an update, considering they did a cop-out re-release like the lizard men (missed opportunity to be more like Slanni space lazers). I mean, they gotta change the aesthetic of how empire looks... "when you aren't heroic enough to be turned into a stormcast, ya just die...or become a skeleton(zombies are defunct)"
Pariah-Miniatures wrote: Really want to know when they will give the Armies of Man an update, considering they did a cop-out re-release like the lizard men (missed opportunity to be more like Slanni space lazers). I mean, they gotta change the aesthetic of how empire looks... "when you aren't heroic enough to be turned into a stormcast, ya just die...or become a skeleton(zombies are defunct)"
I suspect devoted of sigmar are in the pipeline somewhere considering a hint GW dropped on facebook with the release of sliver tower. Funny enough in the summer campaign fluff it's the devoted that are cleansing the surrounding lands of nurgle's corruption.
Pariah-Miniatures wrote: Really want to know when they will give the Armies of Man an update, considering they did a cop-out re-release like the lizard men (missed opportunity to be more like Slanni space lazers). I mean, they gotta change the aesthetic of how empire looks... "when you aren't heroic enough to be turned into a stormcast, ya just die...or become a skeleton(zombies are defunct)"
I suspect devoted of sigmar are in the pipeline somewhere considering a hint GW dropped on facebook with the release of sliver tower. Funny enough in the summer campaign fluff it's the devoted that are cleansing the surrounding lands of nurgle's corruption.
I just find it extremely shoddy to explain that the humans looks like the empire of old because Sigmar told the people about his once great kingdom (that he wasnt really around for to witness). So unless he had a picture book, and told everyone what Italian, Swiss guard and the renaissance looked like, I find it impossible for them to, in a nut shell, be exactly the same as before. Just my grievance for wanting a human faction to be solid and represented in splendor.
Pariah-Miniatures wrote: Really want to know when they will give the Armies of Man an update, considering they did a cop-out re-release like the lizard men (missed opportunity to be more like Slanni space lazers). I mean, they gotta change the aesthetic of how empire looks... "when you aren't heroic enough to be turned into a stormcast, ya just die...or become a skeleton(zombies are defunct)"
I suspect devoted of sigmar are in the pipeline somewhere considering a hint GW dropped on facebook with the release of sliver tower. Funny enough in the summer campaign fluff it's the devoted that are cleansing the surrounding lands of nurgle's corruption.
I just find it extremely shoddy to explain that the humans looks like the empire of old because Sigmar told the people about his once great kingdom (that he wasnt really around for to witness). So unless he had a picture book, and told everyone what Italian, Swiss guard and the renaissance looked like, I find it impossible for them to, in a nut shell, be exactly the same as before. Just my grievance for wanting a human faction to be solid and represented in splendor.
Well it's not all that shoddy considering sigmar was the one who set up the empire in the first place and has actually been watching them from it's creation all the way to end times since his soul was bound in the winds of heavens. Plus he actually does have history books on the old world in his realm, I do suspect the new devoted of sigmar is going to take after the warrior priest from sliver tower.
So I am to believe that he took time to write his own history books while he was palin' around with space dragon? Because I recall nothing but the core of the planet surviving, unless he had a library stuck to the bottom of his foot like many heroes wont go into battle without their trusty underfoot skull. Besides, in a time where war is endless, when would he have time to explain the clothing styles and heraldry to artisans and fashion designers about what feathers and codpieces to use?
Pariah-Miniatures wrote: Really want to know when they will give the Armies of Man an update, considering they did a cop-out re-release like the lizard men (missed opportunity to be more like Slanni space lazers). I mean, they gotta change the aesthetic of how empire looks... "when you aren't heroic enough to be turned into a stormcast, ya just die...or become a skeleton(zombies are defunct)"
I suspect devoted of sigmar are in the pipeline somewhere considering a hint GW dropped on facebook with the release of sliver tower. Funny enough in the summer campaign fluff it's the devoted that are cleansing the surrounding lands of nurgle's corruption.
I just find it extremely shoddy to explain that the humans looks like the empire of old because Sigmar told the people about his once great kingdom (that he wasnt really around for to witness). So unless he had a picture book, and told everyone what Italian, Swiss guard and the renaissance looked like, I find it impossible for them to, in a nut shell, be exactly the same as before. Just my grievance for wanting a human faction to be solid and represented in splendor.
Well it's not all that shoddy considering sigmar was the one who set up the empire in the first place and has actually been watching them from it's creation all the way to end times since his soul was bound in the winds of heavens. Plus he actually does have history books on the old world in his realm, I do suspect the new devoted of sigmar is going to take after the warrior priest from sliver tower.
I don't know that Sigmar was watching all of history, what with apparently being bound in the Great Vortex. That said, when Karl Franz died at the end of Glottkin and Sigmar possessed his corpse, he did get a very up-close look at the (then-)modern Empire.
Ghaz wrote: Uh, remember Sigmar is a deity and not a human.
Not sure what this validates. He was a human until GW 'creatively' had to retcon what happened to him, after he departed from his 'crude' version of the empire. Deity or not, the gods still need to teach people things. But then again, did he really have time to when he was busy with the endless space wars and fabricating 'TK son fantasy space marines'? Or why bother with fragile people when he can have his race of super men? But hey when was the last time Sigmar actually did anything besides sit on his high throne? Dude couldn't even get his own hammer..Then again this a company that had its chance at clean slating everything, but brings just about every dead named character back to life with the only real reason of 'its our IP and we don't want to cultivate new ones'.
No news here, just side tracking the thread. That being said, I want new humans that thematically fit and could be justified for existing as an army, considering their allies; Fantasy Marines are as nearly innumerable as they are unstoppable.
Ghaz wrote: Uh, remember Sigmar is a deity and not a human.
Not sure what this validates. He was a human until GW 'creatively' had to retcon what happened to him, after he departed from his 'crude' version of the empire. Deity or not, the gods still need to teach people things. But then again, did he really have time to when he was busy with the endless space wars and fabricating 'TK son fantasy space marines'? Or why bother with fragile people when he can have his race of super men? But hey when was the last time Sigmar actually did anything besides sit on his high throne? Dude couldn't even get his own hammer..Then again this a company that had its chance at clean slating everything, but brings just about every dead named character back to life with the only real reason of 'its our IP and we don't want to cultivate new ones'.
No news here, just side tracking the thread. That being said, I want new humans that thematically fit and could be justified for existing as an army, considering their allies; Fantasy Marines are as nearly innumerable as they are unstoppable.
But hey those tree spirit elves are pretty cool!
You either haven't read any of the story for yourself, or are just trolling.
This is about as inaccurate a summary of events as possible. I recommend you at least borrow a copy and read it. You'll find that literally every questioned you asked is explained, and that these are stupid questions. OR start a thread in the Background forum. Your choice. I'd really recommend it however, it's actually quite nice.
My question is when does the Tzeentch stuff get released, and will it see points costs incorporated into the warscrolls, an FAQ alongside it, or will they not have points at all? If they decide to just attach points to the warscrolls, that would be easiest, but I just dont see that as being realistic. An Errata or FAQ also seems oddly round about, but possible, but it would be extremely disappointing to see a bunch of brand new shinies not usable at a competitive level.
I'm looking forward to new humans - but at the same time I'm not because in all likelihood* they will be on 32mm bases and massive compared to the old Empire. As an Empire collector its a little bit sad that GW won't make any more human models to the same scale as my current collection.
*based on the size of mortal humans in Silvertower and the new Bloodbowl + a White Dwarf interview with a ST designer stating the acolytes are "standard human sized".
Ghaz wrote: Uh, remember Sigmar is a deity and not a human.
Not sure what this validates. He was a human until GW 'creatively' had to retcon what happened to him, after he departed from his 'crude' version of the empire. Deity or not, the gods still need to teach people things. But then again, did he really have time to when he was busy with the endless space wars and fabricating 'TK son fantasy space marines'? Or why bother with fragile people when he can have his race of super men? But hey when was the last time Sigmar actually did anything besides sit on his high throne? Dude couldn't even get his own hammer..Then again this a company that had its chance at clean slating everything, but brings just about every dead named character back to life with the only real reason of 'its our IP and we don't want to cultivate new ones'.
No news here, just side tracking the thread. That being said, I want new humans that thematically fit and could be justified for existing as an army, considering their allies; Fantasy Marines are as nearly innumerable as they are unstoppable.
But hey those tree spirit elves are pretty cool!
You either haven't read any of the story for yourself, or are just trolling.
This is about as inaccurate a summary of events as possible. I recommend you at least borrow a copy and read it. You'll find that literally every questioned you asked is explained, and that these are stupid questions. OR start a thread in the Background forum. Your choice. I'd really recommend it however, it's actually quite nice.
My question is when does the Tzeentch stuff get released, and will it see points costs incorporated into the warscrolls, an FAQ alongside it, or will they not have points at all? If they decide to just attach points to the warscrolls, that would be easiest, but I just dont see that as being realistic. An Errata or FAQ also seems oddly round about, but possible, but it would be extremely disappointing to see a bunch of brand new shinies not usable at a competitive level.
Like I said on the last page, Silver Tower stuff will get points when the Handbook releases according to GW on FB.
@Bottle, That's why I'd tell GW the same thing I told CA.
Take. Your. Time.
The longer their release is pushed back the better it will be. Their battletome will have more formations, magic/relic options and great fluff involving the campaign consequences and how the Free People resettled/defended the realms.
It also gives Empire players more time to collect a cohesive army matching in look and size.
I'm really hoping the Free Guild incorporates the aesthetic of being from multiple realms which affects their look and playstyle. Such as a beast realm FreeGuild army (BeastGuild) having barbarian/dark age soldiers relying on archers and greatswords that slaughter monsters while a DeathGuild would focus on a dark Victorian look (to match their vampire overlords/targets) and focus on silver shot handgunners and witch hunters.
unmercifulconker wrote: Very pleased this release is such a success, just imagine what would happen if Bretonnia got an AoS faction....
Oh...I'd need to buy more book shelves for the new additions to my royal army.
Oh man, realm themed Freeguild does sound amazing! Maybe after the All-gates gets wrecked, Freeguild treasure hunters from each of the realms could fight over the ruins? A Warband from each realm that could be combined into an army for AoS too.
Ghaz wrote: Uh, remember Sigmar is a deity and not a human.
Not sure what this validates. He was a human until GW 'creatively' had to retcon what happened to him, after he departed from his 'crude' version of the empire. Deity or not, the gods still need to teach people things. But then again, did he really have time to when he was busy with the endless space wars and fabricating 'TK son fantasy space marines'? Or why bother with fragile people when he can have his race of super men? But hey when was the last time Sigmar actually did anything besides sit on his high throne? Dude couldn't even get his own hammer..Then again this a company that had its chance at clean slating everything, but brings just about every dead named character back to life with the only real reason of 'its our IP and we don't want to cultivate new ones'.
No news here, just side tracking the thread. That being said, I want new humans that thematically fit and could be justified for existing as an army, considering their allies; Fantasy Marines are as nearly innumerable as they are unstoppable.
But hey those tree spirit elves are pretty cool!
They are not unstoppable lore wise they are about the strength of chaos warriors that's why sigmar made them because the empire kept getting punted in the face by daemonically empowered super men. The time and energy it takes to make them and deploy they are better at hitting hard objectives. According to the grand alliance order the stormcast get zapped down to take the realm gates then after that all the human armies mixed with stormcast handle taking back the realm and reestablishing cities in the realms. Hence why there are human cities in the realm of fire and metal now. Sigmar has three main armies now, Free Guild, His holy warriors stormcast and his church militant devoted of sigmar with all the witch hunters, warrior priests and flagellants etc.
He is more equipped to deal with chaos, since they make the point in AOS that sigmar wants to win this time.
In the summer campaign supplement they note after the cities were built stormcast mainly spent their time garrisoning certain cities and outposts while the devoted of sigmar were the ones cleansing the lands of nurgle's corruption and we all know how you cleanse chaos. Looking at it overall it seems warrior priests and humans seem better at wielding the holy power of sigmar through faith considering the exploits they do. Sigmar made the grand library so the humans which are the stormcast, free guild and devoted of sigmar learn from his past mistakes which cost the old world. Sigmar even admitted even as a diety he is not infallible so he wants his people to learn from the mistakes he did as a man.
Yes he was watching he was bound to the vortex and the winds of heavens, the winds blow across the whole of world and AOS does confirm he knew of all the events that occured in the old world hence why he has a library of all said events. Don't forget many of the characters who became gods were part of the pantheon before chaos reared it's head again so they may have also shared more information with him. Still If this is not a satisfactory answer I don't know what is.
So have they said anything about how future units will handle points/battlefield role after the General's Handbook is released? Will points just be on the online Warscroll?
Requizen wrote: So have they said anything about how future units will handle points/battlefield role after the General's Handbook is released? Will points just be on the online Warscroll?
And as a follow up: from the General's Handbook leak it looks like there are only points for currently-sold models, and none for old models. Specifically, a lot of the named characters or really old kits that are gone from the store. Was that known going in?
Requizen wrote: And as a follow up: from the General's Handbook leak it looks like there are only points for currently-sold models, and none for old models. Specifically, a lot of the named characters or really old kits that are gone from the store. Was that known going in?
Those characters had already been rolled into other war-scrolls. If you download the .pdfs for legacy lists on GW's site, the last page says stuff like, "Tomb Prince on Chariot: Tomb King on Chariot" where it lets you still use the models, but phased out their having unique rules.
Some other quirky ones got rolled into options. Like, Seraphon can take Tic Taq To, the character Ripperdactyl, but he's just a "Master of the Skies Captain" model.
Requizen wrote: And as a follow up: from the General's Handbook leak it looks like there are only points for currently-sold models, and none for old models. Specifically, a lot of the named characters or really old kits that are gone from the store. Was that known going in?
Those characters had already been rolled into other war-scrolls. If you download the .pdfs for legacy lists on GW's site, the last page says stuff like, "Tomb Prince on Chariot: Tomb King on Chariot" where it lets you still use the models, but phased out their having unique rules.
Some other quirky ones got rolled into options. Like, Seraphon can take Tic Taq To, the character Ripperdactyl, but he's just a "Master of the Skies Captain" model.
The online rules for Lizardmen/Seraphon specifically have rules for Oxyotl and Tetto’Eko, both old named characters that don't have models. They don't have point costs.
Similarly, Wood Elves/Wanderers have rules for Waywatchers (the Unit, not the Hero) which don't have models, and they don't have points in the Handbook.
I imagine they're just not allowed in Pitched, then?
I can't see why they wouldn't be allowed. Looking over their rules, nothing about them seems inherently broken for pitched-battles?
Its worth asking someone about. It could be an over-sight the way WQ:Silver Tower models were, and GW has since confirmed on FB that those would be getting points in the next couple weeks.
Yeah, could very well just be an oversight and they get them later, I just thought it was odd that they went out of the way to give them rules but not points.
Baron Klatz wrote: @Bottle, That's why I'd tell GW the same thing I told CA.
Take. Your. Time.
The longer their release is pushed back the better it will be. Their battletome will have more formations, magic/relic options and great fluff involving the campaign consequences and how the Free People resettled/defended the realms.
It also gives Empire players more time to collect a cohesive army matching in look and size.
I'm really hoping the Free Guild incorporates the aesthetic of being from multiple realms which affects their look and playstyle. Such as a beast realm FreeGuild army (BeastGuild) having barbarian/dark age soldiers relying on archers and greatswords that slaughter monsters while a DeathGuild would focus on a dark Victorian look (to match their vampire overlords/targets) and focus on silver shot handgunners and witch hunters.
unmercifulconker wrote: Very pleased this release is such a success, just imagine what would happen if Bretonnia got an AoS faction....
Oh...I'd need to buy more book shelves for the new additions to my royal army.
Feral, Victorian AND puffy sleeves humans in kits full of tasty bits would make even AoS pricing* managable for conversion fodder. It'll never happen then!
Releasing that supppsedly finished hippogryph for "Brets" would be ace as well.
I'll settle for new zombies though, GW, you hear me? Mixing the zombie sprue, ghouls and heads from a dozen kits gives great results, but a ton of unused models as well.
Just to clarify - all compendium warscrolls have points in the GHB including OOP armies. So Brets and Tomb Kings have full points. For something like Empire which has been split into multiple factions you'll find points for ported units in the Freeguild, Colliegate Arcane, Ironweld Arsonal - and for units not carried forward (Ludwig Scharzhelm and co) you'll find points for them in The Empire compendium section.
I've looked through the GHB every day this week and all old warhammer units are pointed there.
Bottle wrote: Just to clarify - all compendium warscrolls have points in the GHB including OOP armies. So Brets and Tomb Kings have full points. For something like Empire which has been split into multiple factions you'll find points for ported units in the Freeguild, Colliegate Arcane, Ironweld Arsonal - and for units not carried forward (Ludwig Scharzhelm and co) you'll find points for them in The Empire compendium section.
I've looked through the GHB every day this week and all old warhammer units are pointed there.
Thank You for confirming this ! especially the TK part !!!
Bottle wrote: Just to clarify - all compendium warscrolls have points in the GHB including OOP armies. So Brets and Tomb Kings have full points. For something like Empire which has been split into multiple factions you'll find points for ported units in the Freeguild, Colliegate Arcane, Ironweld Arsonal - and for units not carried forward (Ludwig Scharzhelm and co) you'll find points for them in The Empire compendium section.
I've looked through the GHB every day this week and all old warhammer units are pointed there.
Thanks for the confirmation! I was worried that some of the legacy stuff was going to be left behind.
Started to read the All-Gates book after Getting back from my (not so)local GW. A few pages in and they might as well have stamped Tzeentch is coming all over the book Not exactly subtle with the hints there. Mentions of Stormcast raising fortresses across the realms as well, so fingers crossed for a Dreadhold type kit.
I believe Mordheim was set in the historical times of WHFB anyway, so it could very well (and should) be so in case of a re-launch.
BloodBowl has always been a alternative Fantasy universe. It's far goofier even than WHFB at it's very silliest. :p I believe FW has confirmed that it will still remain in it's own setting, which is probably a very good idea since the taint of AoS is not good for businesses.
Zywus wrote: I believe Mordheim was set in the historical times of WHFB anyway, so it could very well (and should) be so in case of a re-launch.
BloodBowl has always been a alternative Fantasy universe. It's far goofier even than WHFB at it's very silliest. :p I believe FW has confirmed that it will still remain in it's own setting, which is probably a very good idea since the taint of AoS is not good for businesses.
Sigmarites in tiny shorts with full upper body armour would be a top seller I'm sure.
Zywus wrote: I believe Mordheim was set in the historical times of WHFB anyway, so it could very well (and should) be so in case of a re-launch.
BloodBowl has always been a alternative Fantasy universe. It's far goofier even than WHFB at it's very silliest. :p I believe FW has confirmed that it will still remain in it's own setting, which is probably a very good idea since the taint of AoS is not good for businesses.
Sigmarites in tiny shorts with full upper body armour would be a top seller I'm sure.
Now that you say it. More sigmarine variations might be just the thing needed to turn things around. There's been months (well, one month maybe, if we count the one in Silver tower) now since we got more of those. People can't get enough of the Sigmarines, right?
Zywus wrote: I believe FW has confirmed that it will still remain in it's own setting, which is probably a very good idea since the taint of AoS is not good for businesses.
Funny how the "taint of AoS" didn't stop the Sylvaneth pre-order from selling out:
Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote: Can't wait for that Gorechosen game. If only I didn't buy 2 of the HQ's already. Oh well, I'll use them for fodder for conversions.
goatboyBeta wrote: Started to read the All-Gates book after Getting back from my (not so)local GW. A few pages in and they might as well have stamped Tzeentch is coming all over the book Not exactly subtle with the hints there. Mentions of Stormcast raising fortresses across the realms as well, so fingers crossed for a Dreadhold type kit.
Here's hoping! I would love some Order fortresses.
Zywus wrote: I believe Mordheim was set in the historical times of WHFB anyway, so it could very well (and should) be so in case of a re-launch.
BloodBowl has always been a alternative Fantasy universe. It's far goofier even than WHFB at it's very silliest. :p I believe FW has confirmed that it will still remain in it's own setting, which is probably a very good idea since the taint of AoS is not good for businesses.
Sigmarites in tiny shorts with full upper body armour would be a top seller I'm sure.
Zywus wrote: I believe FW has confirmed that it will still remain in it's own setting, which is probably a very good idea since the taint of AoS is not good for businesses.
Funny how the "taint of AoS" didn't stop the Sylvaneth pre-order from selling out:
Yeah, didn't hurt the Orruks or Silver Tower either.
They could do a Mordheim based on the past but I'm definitely betting on Mordheim: Ruins of the Realms, or something similar. If they plan on supporting it then it'd make sense for a game that can easily go along with AoS' releases.
Kind of hard to justify a Stormcast or Sylvaneth warband in the Old World afterall.(Not to mention the expansion possibilities)
goatboyBeta wrote: Started to read the All-Gates book after Getting back from my (not so)local GW. A few pages in and they might as well have stamped Tzeentch is coming all over the book Not exactly subtle with the hints there. Mentions of Stormcast raising fortresses across the realms as well, so fingers crossed for a Dreadhold type kit.
Here's hoping! I would love some Order fortresses.
Zywus wrote: I believe Mordheim was set in the historical times of WHFB anyway, so it could very well (and should) be so in case of a re-launch.
BloodBowl has always been a alternative Fantasy universe. It's far goofier even than WHFB at it's very silliest. :p I believe FW has confirmed that it will still remain in it's own setting, which is probably a very good idea since the taint of AoS is not good for businesses.
Sigmarites in tiny shorts with full upper body armour would be a top seller I'm sure.
Zywus wrote: I believe FW has confirmed that it will still remain in it's own setting, which is probably a very good idea since the taint of AoS is not good for businesses.
Funny how the "taint of AoS" didn't stop the Sylvaneth pre-order from selling out:
Yeah, didn't hurt the Orruks or Silver Tower either.
They could do a Mordheim based on the past but I'm definitely betting on Mordheim: Ruins of the Realms, or something similar. If they plan on supporting it then it'd make sense for a game that can easily go along with AoS' releases.
Kind of hard to justify a Stormcast or Sylvaneth warband in the Old World afterall.(Not to mention the expansion possibilities)
Zywus wrote: I believe FW has confirmed that it will still remain in it's own setting, which is probably a very good idea since the taint of AoS is not good for businesses.
Funny how the "taint of AoS" didn't stop the Sylvaneth pre-order from selling out
And I'm sure that's the first pre-order that's ever sold out right?
It's not like the end times books sold out in minutes or anything? If they had, maybe GW hadn't cancelled WHFB.
Of course the taint of AoS hurt the sales of the Sylvaneth. Some of the models look nice but are unfortunately saddled with the stigma of being connected to AoS.
Of course, they're good enough to sell anyway (and the loss of sales from haters are somewhat balanced by the fanboys telling themself that everything AoS is the awesomest thing ever) but anyone seriously arguing that those same models wouldn't have sold at least equally well had they been released for another game system is seriously deluded.
Zywus wrote: I believe FW has confirmed that it will still remain in it's own setting, which is probably a very good idea since the taint of AoS is not good for businesses.
Funny how the "taint of AoS" didn't stop the Sylvaneth pre-order from selling out
And I'm sure that's the first pre-order that's ever sold out right?
It's not like the end times books sold out in minutes or anything? If they had, maybe GW hadn't cancelled WHFB.
Of course the taint of AoS hurt the sales of the Sylvaneth. Some of the models look nice but are unfortunately saddled with the stigma of being connected to AoS.
Of course, they're good enough to sell anyway (and the loss of sales from haters are somewhat balanced by the fanboys telling themself that everything AoS is the awesomest thing ever) but anyone seriously arguing that those same models wouldn't have sold at least equally well had they been released for another game system is seriously deluded.
Considering they sold all of them, unless we are talking about a considerably worse alternative it would be exactly the same. And seriously, haters gunna hate, if we go by presence of haters then every wargame has a stigma associated. Yes AoS did many (MANY) things wrong but its hardly irredeemable, coupled with the current state of GW its hyperbole to say that the AoS-brand is bad for business.
Zywus wrote: I believe FW has confirmed that it will still remain in it's own setting, which is probably a very good idea since the taint of AoS is not good for businesses.
Funny how the "taint of AoS" didn't stop the Sylvaneth pre-order from selling out
And I'm sure that's the first pre-order that's ever sold out right?
It's not like the end times books sold out in minutes or anything? If they had, maybe GW hadn't cancelled WHFB.
Of course the taint of AoS hurt the sales of the Sylvaneth. Some of the models look nice but are unfortunately saddled with the stigma of being connected to AoS.
Of course, they're good enough to sell anyway (and the loss of sales from haters are somewhat balanced by the fanboys telling themself that everything AoS is the awesomest thing ever) but anyone seriously arguing that those same models wouldn't have sold at least equally well had they been released for another game system is seriously deluded.
Many of the ironjawz sold out too as did the Dracothion guard. There is no question that AOS had a very slow start but they have been knocking it out of the park recently. There is a certain section of the fan base that is holding onto the notion that AOS is still a failure but there is no question that the game is generating some excitement now. If the summer campaign is run well, it could really push AOS to the next level. It is easy to be cynical and GW's behaviour of the last few years would support this , but I am the most excited I have been about the future of the company since mordheim came out.
On the other hand, can we say selling out this latest Wood Elf and previous Orc stuff is a sign that AoS has recovered from any stigma (perceived or real) attached to it without knowing the volumes traded. If they sold out because they had 100 copies of something that in WHFB days may have been released as 1000 copies then it's not really an improvement (in terms of growing customer/player base etc) - aside from maybe getting their stock estimates right for demand.
True, but there's other signs as well like Lord Kroak and the Seraphon models also hitting "temporarily out of stock" territory compared when they barely selled during 8th.
FrothingMuppet wrote: On the other hand, can we say selling out this latest Wood Elf and previous Orc stuff is a sign that AoS has recovered from any stigma (perceived or real) attached to it without knowing the volumes traded. If they sold out because they had 100 copies of something that in WHFB days may have been released as 1000 copies then it's not really an improvement (in terms of growing customer/player base etc) - aside from maybe getting their stock estimates right for demand.
What an oddly pedantic argument... Do you really think they only produced 100 Alarielle model kits?
FrothingMuppet wrote: On the other hand, can we say selling out this latest Wood Elf and previous Orc stuff is a sign that AoS has recovered from any stigma (perceived or real) attached to it without knowing the volumes traded. If they sold out because they had 100 copies of something that in WHFB days may have been released as 1000 copies then it's not really an improvement (in terms of growing customer/player base etc) - aside from maybe getting their stock estimates right for demand.
What an oddly pedantic argument... Do you really think they only produced 100 Alarielle model kits?
I used 100 as an example only - I'm not suggesting there are only 100 of a specific kit in circulation - it's a simple unit measure for scale comparison only. The point I was trying to make is we don't know volume produced/traded currently or historically and so the concept of something having 'sold out' isn't of itself an indication something sold well. I could make one of something, sell it, and say it is sold out so ergo I have a successful brand/game/item. Without reference to scale, historical production/sales volumes etc, it's all a bit meaningless.
The whole argument is quite pointless. If GW continue producing and selling the items then they obviously see $$'s to be made. Until such time they stop selling the range, surely one assumption is they are making money, irrespective of our (varied) interpretations of how well received the 'game' is.
Yeah AoS is clearly picking up a lot of steam lately. Stellar model releases and the Generals handbook is bringing in a LOT of new blood going by the number of "now that points are coming I'm jumping in" posts I've seen both online and in person. The community is pretty amazing as well which I think works in he games favour. Exciting times ahead!
Well, WHFB last WE release was also sold out in the first week.
Looking at Alarielle again, still think it would have been a much better if they didn't put Alarielle and the Beetle together. Both look cool, but they just dont fit together.
Unfortunately, most of these new arts is awful. Like the one that was posted though (skaven vs nurgle)
streetsamurai wrote: Well, WHFB last WE release was also sold out in the first week.
Looking at Alarielle again, still think it would have been a much better if they didn't put Alarielle and the Beetle together. Both look cool, but they just dont fit together.
Unfortunately, most of these new arts is awful. Like the one that was posted though (skaven vs nurgle)
Each to their own. It's quite refreshing to see something other than the recycled "old guard" artwork IMO.
FrothingMuppet wrote: On the other hand, can we say selling out this latest Wood Elf and previous Orc stuff is a sign that AoS has recovered from any stigma (perceived or real) attached to it without knowing the volumes traded. If they sold out because they had 100 copies of something that in WHFB days may have been released as 1000 copies then it's not really an improvement (in terms of growing customer/player base etc) - aside from maybe getting their stock estimates right for demand.
But we can't say that the 'AoS stigma' is affecting sales negatively either without knowing the volumes involved.
FrothingMuppet wrote: On the other hand, can we say selling out this latest Wood Elf and previous Orc stuff is a sign that AoS has recovered from any stigma (perceived or real) attached to it without knowing the volumes traded. If they sold out because they had 100 copies of something that in WHFB days may have been released as 1000 copies then it's not really an improvement (in terms of growing customer/player base etc) - aside from maybe getting their stock estimates right for demand.
But we can't say that the 'AoS stigma' is affecting sales negatively either without knowing the volumes involved.
Undoubtedly ImAGeek, well put - I should have worded my original statement better to reflect that neutrality. Ultimately its GW themselves who know how well things are working from their own sales data and they aren't beholden to us to disclaim that. To a lesser extent individual game stores/trade stockists would also have a view within their own local regions and they at least are a public barometer (regionally) who could shed light on AoS as a whole over time and individual releases in particular.
Zywus wrote: I believe FW has confirmed that it will still remain in it's own setting, which is probably a very good idea since the taint of AoS is not good for businesses.
Funny how the "taint of AoS" didn't stop the Sylvaneth pre-order from selling out
And I'm sure that's the first pre-order that's ever sold out right?
It's not like the end times books sold out in minutes or anything? If they had, maybe GW hadn't cancelled WHFB.
Of course the taint of AoS hurt the sales of the Sylvaneth. Some of the models look nice but are unfortunately saddled with the stigma of being connected to AoS.
Of course, they're good enough to sell anyway (and the loss of sales from haters are somewhat balanced by the fanboys telling themself that everything AoS is the awesomest thing ever) but anyone seriously arguing that those same models wouldn't have sold at least equally well had they been released for another game system is seriously deluded.
Does it matter? All this shows is that there is demand for AOS whether you like it or not, considering the amount of bundles and sylvaneth which are out of stock in several territories overall I gotta say its a good thing in my opinion considering the rocky start AOS had.
Zywus wrote: I believe FW has confirmed that it will still remain in it's own setting, which is probably a very good idea since the taint of AoS is not good for businesses.
Funny how the "taint of AoS" didn't stop the Sylvaneth pre-order from selling out
And I'm sure that's the first pre-order that's ever sold out right?
It's not like the end times books sold out in minutes or anything? If they had, maybe GW hadn't cancelled WHFB.
Of course the taint of AoS hurt the sales of the Sylvaneth. Some of the models look nice but are unfortunately saddled with the stigma of being connected to AoS.
Of course, they're good enough to sell anyway (and the loss of sales from haters are somewhat balanced by the fanboys telling themself that everything AoS is the awesomest thing ever) but anyone seriously arguing that those same models wouldn't have sold at least equally well had they been released for another game system is seriously deluded.
Does it matter? All this shows is that there is demand for AOS whether you like it or not, considering the amount of bundles and sylvaneth which are out of stock in several territories overall I gotta say its a good thing in my opinion considering the rocky start AOS had.
There was demand for wood elves in WHFB too, as we saw when that release sold very well.
Still wasn't enough for GW to keep the game.
The talk of a "huge influx of new blood" thank's to points is pretty laughable as well. All it does is pull back a portion of the masses who left, still leaving AoS short of the playerbase who wasn't enough for GW a few years ago. If anyone is seriously suggesting that there's a swathe of players completely new to tabletop gaming, chomping at the bit to throw down £80 for a giant beetle mode, or £35 for a tree-lady or three smaller tree-dudes I don't know what to say. You need to have been thoroughly desensitized already to consider this release.
I guess I'm already outside of the thread boundries here since it's not supposed to be about AoS in general. Sorry for that.
I wouldn't call that laughable... What I would call laughable is dismissing any positive theories with a derisive sneer while simultaneously spouting your own, equally unfounded negative theories as truth...
Yeah I agree that some of the art really has not been up to par. They have too many quick turnarounds from freelancers with little time and little or no knowledge of the universe cranking out paintings of models with bad composition and posing. Some of the art has been stunning but there are a few too many stinkers.
There was also some great art in All Gates book. Overall it is getting a lot better in my opinion so it's moving in the right direction. I am often surprised by how bad some of the art is in the older books too when I look back with a fresh pair of eyes.
I dont agree that its just AoS that has bad art but now for both 40k and AoS there are some art styles I just cannot take to. Most now are amazing but some like those Tzeetnch ones and even from the Wulfen stuff, like the overly cartoony look that just look rushed imo, not doubting the artist skill, I just prefer my art to be like this:
Spoiler:
Than this:
Spoiler:
Sometimes with the artwork it does feel like they just take whatever they get but thankfully the good art outweighs the bad.
Haha looking at the image more and more I am starting to like it actually but for me its still the cartoony feel, off topic image but this one is a better example of what I mean:
I was planning on joining in once the Steamhead Duardin came out, but the new Sylvaneth are too damn gorgeous.... so I bought some looking forward to a slow grow league we'll be having locally.
I hope the wait between each new faction won't be too long. There are sooo many I'm looking forward to. The regular humans, Soulblight, Ogors, Dark Aelves, Tzeentch, hopefully Slaanesh, all the other Skaven clans, Bonesplittaz, the list goes on, a Battletome would keep me happy for some but holy damn, the thought of a plastic Vampire kit.
streetsamurai wrote: Well, WHFB last WE release was also sold out in the first week.
Certain items were sold out in the first week, yes. The Eternal Guard kit, for example, was sold out for several weeks.
The Wild Rider/Sisters of the Thorn kit, the Tree Lord Ancient/Treeman/Durthu kit, and Araloth? Not so much. The Wood Elf release, when it happened for 8th edition, was accompanied by a pathetic amount of new items. A plastic clamshell hero(Araloth), a plastic hero/monster kit(Tree Lord Ancient/Treeman/Durthu), two plastic multi-unit boxes(Wild Riders and Sisters of the Thorn plus the Eternal Guard and Wildwood Rangers boxes).
streetsamurai wrote: Well, WHFB last WE release was also sold out in the first week.
Certain items were sold out in the first week, yes. The Eternal Guard kit, for example, was sold out for several weeks.
The Wild Rider/Sisters of the Thorn kit, the Tree Lord Ancient/Treeman/Durthu kit, and Araloth? Not so much. The Wood Elf release, when it happened for 8th edition, was accompanied by a pathetic amount of new items. A plastic clamshell hero(Araloth), a plastic hero/monster kit(Tree Lord Ancient/Treeman/Durthu), two plastic multi-unit boxes(Wild Riders and Sisters of the Thorn plus the Eternal Guard and Wildwood Rangers boxes).
Pathetic amount?!
2 new plastic unit boxes, plastic monster and a plastic hero is considered Pathetic?
Wow - that is truly shocking statement consider WE already had some lovely figs in their range.
streetsamurai wrote: Well, WHFB last WE release was also sold out in the first week.
Certain items were sold out in the first week, yes. The Eternal Guard kit, for example, was sold out for several weeks.
The Wild Rider/Sisters of the Thorn kit, the Tree Lord Ancient/Treeman/Durthu kit, and Araloth? Not so much. The Wood Elf release, when it happened for 8th edition, was accompanied by a pathetic amount of new items. A plastic clamshell hero(Araloth), a plastic hero/monster kit(Tree Lord Ancient/Treeman/Durthu), two plastic multi-unit boxes(Wild Riders and Sisters of the Thorn plus the Eternal Guard and Wildwood Rangers boxes).
Pathetic amount?!
2 new plastic unit boxes, plastic monster and a plastic hero is considered Pathetic?
Wow - that is truly shocking statement consider WE already had some lovely figs in their range.
It was a small release compared to other WHF releases at the time. Dark Elves for example got 3 multi kit infantry kits, a cavalry kit, 2 monsters/big kits, a chariot kit, and 2 heroes.
Most of the Dark Elves line at the time was horribly outdated tho.
Maybe not the hydra, but the basic infantry/Executioners/Black Guard/Witches and chariots were all dating back to sixth edition. And the beginning of the sixth edition, to be honest. Wood elves had relatively newer models.
Just compare the wardancers to old witch elves...
streetsamurai wrote: Well, WHFB last WE release was also sold out in the first week.
Certain items were sold out in the first week, yes. The Eternal Guard kit, for example, was sold out for several weeks.
The Wild Rider/Sisters of the Thorn kit, the Tree Lord Ancient/Treeman/Durthu kit, and Araloth? Not so much. The Wood Elf release, when it happened for 8th edition, was accompanied by a pathetic amount of new items. A plastic clamshell hero(Araloth), a plastic hero/monster kit(Tree Lord Ancient/Treeman/Durthu), two plastic multi-unit boxes(Wild Riders and Sisters of the Thorn plus the Eternal Guard and Wildwood Rangers boxes).
Pathetic amount?!
2 new plastic unit boxes, plastic monster and a plastic hero is considered Pathetic?
Wow - that is truly shocking statement consider WE already had some lovely figs in their range.
Considering that it was spaced out over the course of a month and completely ignored the actual things that COULD have been plastic kit releases?
Yes. It was pathetic.
There were no plastic Wardancers, there were no plastic Waywatchers, there were no plastic Deepwood Scouts(despite the insistence I know people will mention regarding the Glade Guard kit; remember that never once were the Glade Guard kits billed as Deepwood Scouts), there were no Warhawks, there was no plastic Forest Dragon or Great Eagle for the Sisters, etc.
goatboyBeta wrote: Started to read the All-Gates book after Getting back from my (not so)local GW. A few pages in and they might as well have stamped Tzeentch is coming all over the book Not exactly subtle with the hints there. Mentions of Stormcast raising fortresses across the realms as well, so fingers crossed for a Dreadhold type kit.
Here's hoping! I would love some Order fortresses.
Zywus wrote: I believe Mordheim was set in the historical times of WHFB anyway, so it could very well (and should) be so in case of a re-launch.
BloodBowl has always been a alternative Fantasy universe. It's far goofier even than WHFB at it's very silliest. :p I believe FW has confirmed that it will still remain in it's own setting, which is probably a very good idea since the taint of AoS is not good for businesses.
Sigmarites in tiny shorts with full upper body armour would be a top seller I'm sure.
Zywus wrote: I believe FW has confirmed that it will still remain in it's own setting, which is probably a very good idea since the taint of AoS is not good for businesses.
Funny how the "taint of AoS" didn't stop the Sylvaneth pre-order from selling out:
Yeah, didn't hurt the Orruks or Silver Tower either.
They could do a Mordheim based on the past but I'm definitely betting on Mordheim: Ruins of the Realms, or something similar. If they plan on supporting it then it'd make sense for a game that can easily go along with AoS' releases.
Kind of hard to justify a Stormcast or Sylvaneth warband in the Old World afterall.(Not to mention the expansion possibilities)
shinros wrote: He is more equipped to deal with chaos, since they make the point in AOS that sigmar wants to win this time.
Well good luck with that. Since by definition both sides are infinite and realms themselves are infinite winning is going to take a while...As in infinite. Hopefully Sigmar has long patience
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NinthMusketeer wrote: Considering they sold all of them, unless we are talking about a considerably worse alternative it would be exactly the same. And seriously, haters gunna hate, if we go by presence of haters then every wargame has a stigma associated. Yes AoS did many (MANY) things wrong but its hardly irredeemable, coupled with the current state of GW its hyperbole to say that the AoS-brand is bad for business.
One thing we don't know is number of casts though...
There's 2 ways to get sold out stamps.
a) increase sales
b) reduce output(by producing more of better selling stuff for example)
Without knowing how much GW produced stuff cannot be deduced which one is the case.
We do have GW admitting AOS sales as not having been much of a success. Coupled with them NOT banging sales as big success(which they have done without exception everytime sales have been very good. End time books, Calth...)
shinros wrote: He is more equipped to deal with chaos, since they make the point in AOS that sigmar wants to win this time.
Well good luck with that. Since by definition both sides are infinite and realms themselves are infinite winning is going to take a while...As in infinite. Hopefully Sigmar has long patience
Automatically Appended Next Post:
NinthMusketeer wrote: Considering they sold all of them, unless we are talking about a considerably worse alternative it would be exactly the same. And seriously, haters gunna hate, if we go by presence of haters then every wargame has a stigma associated. Yes AoS did many (MANY) things wrong but its hardly irredeemable, coupled with the current state of GW its hyperbole to say that the AoS-brand is bad for business.
One thing we don't know is number of casts though...
There's 2 ways to get sold out stamps.
a) increase sales
b) reduce output(by producing more of better selling stuff for example)
Without knowing how much GW produced stuff cannot be deduced which one is the case.
Well sigmar and the forces of order took the realm of life and have massive control on the realm of fire. Now if the forces of order keep control of said realm depends on the results of the summer campaign. The realms are "near" infinite (most likely so GW have some freedom to add to the realms) we have a map of the realm of life and it's about the size of the old world. Personally I want Death to win we have no idea what nagash is planning.
He was absent from the all-gates book and the audio drama was turned into an official realm gate book. Something is coming I feel. Still you are correct one thing sigmar fails to realize is that you cannot destroy chaos you may contain it but never end it.
shinros wrote: Well we know bonsplitters is getting a book soon considering they have new stuff in their section of the GH. Plus Ogors.
Sweet are they new models? Like in the book do they mention new units or same old?
Well they mention characters that are not in the destruction book or in the old fluff. In the All-gate books they note that the great waagh! is under way plenty of new things can pop up. I don't have the GH on hand but I recall seeing new names it would be nice if savage orcs got a book like flesh eater courts that would be neat.
So when you make a model kit that looks like something I'd like to fight in Final Fantasy, that's a winner in my eyes. The lady looks awesome. The beatle is the weakest link, the face being humanoid. It's like what D&D did with the Carrion Crawler, the wacky mouth killed the original concept dead for me(5e fixed it). The beatle works though.
So when you make a model kit that looks like something I'd like to fight in Final Fantasy, that's a winner in my eyes. The lady looks awesome. The beatle is the weakest link, the face being humanoid. It's like what D&D did with the Carrion Crawler, the wacky mouth killed the original concept dead for me(5e fixed it). The beatle works though.
Question regarding Age of Sigmar rules, are the free PDF's on GW's site updated? Or is it to be expected that all new models you have to buy the rules books for them?
If you want to play without points you should be good. If you want points, you'll need the General's Handbook.
For example, the rules for Alarielle's new model are available right now as a free PDF.
But they don't list points values. It's for non-points play in those warscrolls.
I think it is worth sharing the designers of the Sylvaneth. Seb Perbet sculpted Alariel. Oliver Norman sculpted Drycha. Gavin Newton sculpted the revenants. Mike Fores sculpted the Kurnoth. This was shared on Twitter by Darren Latham.
Seb Perbet continues to impress, but it is good to see some of the newer guys producing some excellent stuff.
So when you make a model kit that looks like something I'd like to fight in Final Fantasy, that's a winner in my eyes. The lady looks awesome. The beatle is the weakest link, the face being humanoid. It's like what D&D did with the Carrion Crawler, the wacky mouth killed the original concept dead for me(5e fixed it). The beatle works though.
From now on, Alarielle's wardroth beetle shall be known as Ringo...
Chikout wrote: I think it is worth sharing the designers of the Sylvaneth. Seb Perbet sculpted Alariel. Oliver Norman sculpted Drycha. Gavin Newton sculpted the revenants. Mike Fores sculpted the Kurnoth. This was shared on Twitter by Darren Latham.
Seb Perbet continues to impress, but it is good to see some of the newer guys producing some excellent stuff.
I am impressed at how consistent the aesthetic remains across kits despite different sculptors.
Does it seem to anyone else that every figure released for AoS (ignoring existing WHFB kit repacks) is out of scale with the older figures. Once each faction has been launched, how probable is it the older WHFB era kits will be dropped?
Thebiggesthat wrote: Same old usernames resorting to anything just to get a moan about AoS.
This isn't the thread for it. Don't like it, don't post, simple.
Sure I'm not an AoS cheerleader but you can see mr. Mymearan, who is a certified AoS enthusiast, agreeing with my post about artwork. Take note btw of how to be a fair poster instead of always looking for whine about whine opportunity. It's a valid criticism, there really are pieces in AoS books that show some character and vision but for some reason are mixed with awful and low quality ones. I hold GW to a higher standard really.
Also I posted about the new artwork not in general about AoS. It's not "positive or gtfo AoS news and rumours" thread.
Anyway I like this one for example, not for technical reasons but for vision
The next release is the Handbook, a new mini-starter set, some small sets of clip together miniatures, repackaged Bonesplitterz and a Bonesplitta battletome.
The next release is the Handbook, a new mini-starter set, some small sets of clip together miniatures, repackaged Bonesplitterz and a Bonesplitta battletome.
If they didn't do clip-together for Silver Tower, I find it unlikely they'll do it for a regular kit.
So when you make a model kit that looks like something I'd like to fight in Final Fantasy, that's a winner in my eyes. The lady looks awesome. The beatle is the weakest link, the face being humanoid. It's like what D&D did with the Carrion Crawler, the wacky mouth killed the original concept dead for me(5e fixed it). The beatle works though.
The original Carrion Crawler didn't have a humanoid mouth, did it?
I rather like the beetle's overall look - and it's not like its face is easy to find/see anyway!
The next release is the Handbook, a new mini-starter set, some small sets of clip together miniatures, repackaged Bonesplitterz and a Bonesplitta battletome.
If they didn't do clip-together for Silver Tower, I find it unlikely they'll do it for a regular kit.
There were rumours a while ago about snap together cheap kits coming out. They used to do them, they were about £5/6 when they came out, for 3 Warriors of Chaos, 4 Orcs or 5 Skeletons. Just cheap ways to bulk out units. I could see it.
Chikout wrote: Some pics are up on the spikey bits forums. It confirms the bonesplittas and the mini starter set, though there is not a pic of the contents yet.
It helps to post links.
The new starter is called "Storm of Sigmar" it seems.
Sorry. I was being lazy and assuming someone else would do it. 12 battletomes in 12 and a half months is an impressive release rate. If they can keep it up for another year, the game should be very well set.
Yippppeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, Savage Orks are my faves!
Edit: Also adore the world map pictures now, would love to see some art of the big beasties around the place. My order came today despite me saying Thursday but kinda not mad since its here now anyway. Time to get drunk on lore.
Alpharius wrote: The original Carrion Crawler didn't have a humanoid mouth, did it?
I rather like the beetle's overall look - and it's not like its face is easy to find/see anyway!
Anyway, the PPM miniatures were my unspecified focus. I'd rather not post pics b/c the minis, while not truely bad, aren't what I'd like people to remember DDM for. I don't play or even own many book older than 3rd edition. So, the projections I make wont be as specific as many would first assume, or correct as I assume; My bad.
That pic you posted is one of the better versions until 5e remembered Carrion Crawlers used to be cool is all I will say. The beetle isn't bad at all, but at first glance of the artwork displayed, I had Carrion Crawler flashbacks. The model just got attached to my rambling, which sucks for it b/c it's cool.
In an alt universe I'm sure I deflected and said the 1e C.Crawler had a veteran photographer.
And the Ringo reference went right over my head, like how to spell beetle did.
privateer4hire wrote: If you want to play without points you should be good. If you want points, you'll need the General's Handbook.
For example, the rules for Alarielle's new model are available right now as a free PDF.
But they don't list points values. It's for non-points play in those warscrolls.
Thank you, I just noticed that the PDF is on the models site, I was looking for rules under the AoS armies page.
Found the Tree-Revenants, and again GW has weapon rules that just make no sense to me, Enchanted Blade or Protector Glaive have the exact same stats BUT the glaive does 2 damage. Am I missing something? Why would you ever take the enchanted blade?
privateer4hire wrote: If you want to play without points you should be good. If you want points, you'll need the General's Handbook.
For example, the rules for Alarielle's new model are available right now as a free PDF.
But they don't list points values. It's for non-points play in those warscrolls.
Thank you, I just noticed that the PDF is on the models site, I was looking for rules under the AoS armies page.
Found the Tree-Revenants, and again GW has weapon rules that just make no sense to me, Enchanted Blade or Protector Glaive have the exact same stats BUT the glaive does 2 damage. Am I missing something? Why would you ever take the enchanted blade?
Only the scion can take the glaive, but he gets double attacks with the sword.
Like most AoS 'options' they are roughly the same, but you get an option. All about that modeling bro.
Ok, after having re-read it that makes sense. I liked the Sigmarines wording that said only one model in this unit could take X weapon. Easier for my brain.
FrothingMuppet wrote: Does it seem to anyone else that every figure released for AoS (ignoring existing WHFB kit repacks) is out of scale with the older figures. Once each faction has been launched, how probable is it the older WHFB era kits will be dropped?
Actually out of scale... I don't think so (at least, compared to the latter 8th edition models).
However.
I do have a concern that, Fyreslayers aside, everything in the Mortal Realms is BIG. Which means big models. So I am wondering whether we will see much of the normal-sized fighter. Sure, super Orcs are going to be big (I kinda guessed that would happen, with Orcs the size of 40k Nobs), and I was fine with that, but what about Skaven? Humans? Aelves?
Big models are impressive enough, but if you don't have something normal next to them, their effect is somewhat eroded.
So, in my view, no, the scale has not really changed - but everything is going large.
As for dropping kits... if you wait long enough, sure. At some point, you are always going to be able to do something better than what is in the current range. I don't think it will be wholesale though, or quick, or soon.
privateer4hire wrote: If you want to play without points you should be good. If you want points, you'll need the General's Handbook.
For example, the rules for Alarielle's new model are available right now as a free PDF.
But they don't list points values. It's for non-points play in those warscrolls.
Have they said anywhere (Facebook, FAQs) what's going to happen with points for models released after the GH comes out?
privateer4hire wrote: If you want to play without points you should be good. If you want points, you'll need the General's Handbook.
For example, the rules for Alarielle's new model are available right now as a free PDF.
But they don't list points values. It's for non-points play in those warscrolls.
Have they said anywhere (Facebook, FAQs) what's going to happen with points for models released after the GH comes out?
They've promised to release a document with points for the Warhammer Quest models, by the time the Handbook officially launches, so I expect this means they will issue points for future releases, and probably compile them within a yearly "General's Handbook" style release, as well.
Chikout wrote: I think it is worth sharing the designers of the Sylvaneth. Seb Perbet sculpted Alariel. Oliver Norman sculpted Drycha. Gavin Newton sculpted the revenants. Mike Fores sculpted the Kurnoth. This was shared on Twitter by Darren Latham.
Seb Perbet continues to impress, but it is good to see some of the newer guys producing some excellent stuff.
I am impressed at how consistent the aesthetic remains across kits despite different sculptors.
I am not impressed. I mean isn't everything done on computer now or CAD? So I believe it's easier to keep the same aesthetic, than say if everything was done by hand like the old days.
Now just imagine how much better if they did it like the old days with the great sculptors how these minis would have just been that much more awesome if done by hand. The tree guys (sorry forget their names) would have been more lively and a bit less blocky. I
Chikout wrote: I think it is worth sharing the designers of the Sylvaneth. Seb Perbet sculpted Alariel. Oliver Norman sculpted Drycha. Gavin Newton sculpted the revenants. Mike Fores sculpted the Kurnoth. This was shared on Twitter by Darren Latham.
Seb Perbet continues to impress, but it is good to see some of the newer guys producing some excellent stuff.
I am impressed at how consistent the aesthetic remains across kits despite different sculptors.
I am not impressed. I mean isn't everything done on computer now or CAD? So I believe it's easier to keep the same aesthetic, than say if everything was done by hand like the old days.
Now just imagine how much better if they did it like the old days with the great sculptors how these minis would have just been that much more awesome if done by hand. The tree guys (sorry forget their names) would have been more lively and a bit less blocky. I
I don't think sculpting digitally makes it easier to keep the same aesthetic between sculptors, unless they're reusing mannequins, which they wouldn't have for this release because everything is such a different shape. If the tree revenants were just smaller Kurnoth hunters then yeah, but I'm not sure how much would have been shared between models. So it would have been the same task for them, to keep them similar stylistically, just in a different medium.
Ghaz wrote: Everything I'm seeing says the Bonesplittaz will just be a reboxing with a new Battletome, similar to what we saw with the Flesh-eater Courts.
New Artwork, rules and fluff are good enough for me. Also reboxing is great since it saves me money on bases and per model.
Now just imagine how much better if they did it like the old days with the great sculptors how these minis would have just been that much more awesome if done by hand. The tree guys (sorry forget their names) would have been more lively and a bit less blocky. I
You obviously haven't seen the previous treemen and treekin models...
Kanluwen wrote: We've seen Skaven, Humans, and Aelves. They're in Silver Tower.
I'm still hoping that the priest from Silver tower is the exception when it comes to normal Humans. Stormcast are supposed to be much larger than humans yet he can look most of them in the eye.
Humans appear to be the only thing going up in scale if silver tower is any indication.
Though it's possible, as Goatboybeta hopes, that the warrior priest is an exception. He could just be from a human tribe of powerful warriors. The devoted of Sigmar and the Stormcast are usually from such groups.
Baron Klatz wrote: Humans appear to be the only thing going up in scale if silver tower is any indication.
Though it's possible, as Goatboybeta hopes, that the warrior priest is an exception. He could just be from a human tribe of powerful warriors. The devoted of Sigmar and the Stormcast are usually from such groups.
This. Though I suspect the humans are going up in scale a small amount to fit with the more heroic setting (and the basic empire troops also seem a little smaller because of the hunched/leaning posture). But the Skaven and Aelves are the same scale.
In one of the White Dwarves on the Silver Tower the designers talk about the priest and comment that he is a 7ft giant. So the coming human models shouldn't be as big as him. I think they will be moved up to 32mms though and increased in size a little.
Now just imagine how much better if they did it like the old days with the great sculptors how these minis would have just been that much more awesome if done by hand. The tree guys (sorry forget their names) would have been more lively and a bit less blocky. I
You obviously haven't seen the previous treemen and treekin models...
Nope I haven't. Were they really good, or were they really bad?
Now just imagine how much better if they did it like the old days with the great sculptors how these minis would have just been that much more awesome if done by hand. The tree guys (sorry forget their names) would have been more lively and a bit less blocky. I
You obviously haven't seen the previous treemen and treekin models...
Nope I haven't. Were they really good, or were they really bad?
Google them and you'll see. Ugly as sin, blocky, awkward posing. I can see what they were going for but they were total fails.
I really want to get my hands on the generals handbook and start trying out these new points costs and stuff, but GW direct order haven't even fething dispatched my copy yet. I don't know why I went to them direct. I can't ever be bothered to go with a discounter for one or two items. Still, "2-3 working days" my arse.
Bull0 wrote: I really want to get my hands on the generals handbook and start trying out these new points costs and stuff, but GW direct order haven't even fething dispatched my copy yet. I don't know why I went to them direct. I can't ever be bothered to go with a discounter for one or two items. Still, "2-3 working days" my arse.
General's Handbook isn't released until the 22nd, they won't send it til then.
Now just imagine how much better if they did it like the old days with the great sculptors how these minis would have just been that much more awesome if done by hand. The tree guys (sorry forget their names) would have been more lively and a bit less blocky. I
You obviously haven't seen the previous treemen and treekin models...
Nope I haven't. Were they really good, or were they really bad?
Google them and you'll see. Ugly as sin, blocky, awkward posing. I can see what they were going for but they were total fails.
The new (current) ones are a massive improvement.
Oh I love the new ones, I want to get them eventually. Thing is I thought with a great sculptor, it can be done better than an computer. Just like how oil paintings and hand drawn drawings are so much better with the correct artist than what GW is putting out with the computer drawings they have.
Now just imagine how much better if they did it like the old days with the great sculptors how these minis would have just been that much more awesome if done by hand. The tree guys (sorry forget their names) would have been more lively and a bit less blocky. I
You obviously haven't seen the previous treemen and treekin models...
Nope I haven't. Were they really good, or were they really bad?
Google them and you'll see. Ugly as sin, blocky, awkward posing. I can see what they were going for but they were total fails.
The new (current) ones are a massive improvement.
Oh I love the new ones, I want to get them eventually. Thing is I thought with a great sculptor, it can be done better than an computer. Just like how oil paintings and hand drawn drawings are so much better with the correct artist than what GW is putting out with the computer drawings they have.
That's down to the artist, not the medium. You might prefer hand sculpted models/oil paintings, but they aren't objectively better mediums than digital art/CAD. It's down to the artist and personal preference.
Since Sylvaneth is a new brand of Battletome, whilst the Bonesplittaz may be a small one in terms of models, I wonder if there will be a bunch of Waaagh! spells, artifacts, items and cool tribal battalions. Definitely using the Ironjawz shaman as he looks savage enough and looks better than finecast.
That's down to the artist, not the medium. You might prefer hand sculpted models/oil paintings, but they aren't objectively better mediums than digital art/CAD. It's down to the artist and personal preference.
After reading this, I guess I just miss the old style. Maybe not because it wasn't digital art/CAD ( I like it a lot when it's done well) it's because I am not seeing awesome art, or even good art right now. So when I think of good or awesome GW art it was when GW didn't use it. So maybe GW just needs to start paying artists who can actually do the work instead hiring on attitude. After all I want to buy a great pictures, not a shoddy pictures because the person had a great attitude. It was the pictures that got me into 40K since back then the minis were just meh or good. Now the mins are good/great/awesome but the art work is just meh or bad now.
I will not be blaming digital art/CAD no more, just blame GW for releasing poor art work that is not a premium product..
That said, I know the artists work real hard for this, and it's a shame I have to blame them. Thing is when I am buying a "premium" product (GW terms) then I expect premium artwork. The art in AoS does not justify a premium price. I know not the artist fault, but still not a premium product.
unmercifulconker wrote: Since Sylvaneth is a new brand of Battletome, whilst the Bonesplittaz may be a small one in terms of models, I wonder if there will be a bunch of Waaagh! spells, artifacts, items and cool tribal battalions. Definitely using the Ironjawz shaman as he looks savage enough and looks better than finecast.
In the pics we've seen from the General's Handbook, we know they will have nine Warscroll Battalions.
That's down to the artist, not the medium. You might prefer hand sculpted models/oil paintings, but they aren't objectively better mediums than digital art/CAD. It's down to the artist and personal preference.
After reading this, I guess I just miss the old style. Maybe not because it wasn't digital art/CAD ( I like it a lot when it's done well) it's because I am not seeing awesome art, or even good art right now. So when I think of good or awesome GW art it was when GW didn't use it. So maybe GW just needs to start paying artists who can actually do the work instead hiring on attitude. After all I want to buy a great pictures, not a shoddy pictures because the person had a great attitude. It was the pictures that got me into 40K since back then the minis were just meh or good. Now the mins are good/great/awesome but the art work is just meh or bad now.
I will not be blaming digital art/CAD no more, just blame GW for releasing poor art work that is not a premium product..
That said, I know the artists work real hard for this, and it's a shame I have to blame them. Thing is when I am buying a "premium" product (GW terms) then I expect premium artwork. The art in AoS does not justify a premium price. I know not the artist fault, but still not a premium product.
That's fair. Art is obviously very subjective. I'm seeing a lot of great art personally in AoS, I just wish it was all as good as the good ones.
unmercifulconker wrote: Since Sylvaneth is a new brand of Battletome, whilst the Bonesplittaz may be a small one in terms of models, I wonder if there will be a bunch of Waaagh! spells, artifacts, items and cool tribal battalions. Definitely using the Ironjawz shaman as he looks savage enough and looks better than finecast.
In the pics we've seen from the General's Handbook, we know they will have nine Warscroll Battalions.
Probably more than 9 battalions in the Battletome as the GHB will only point the ones designed for matched play, but as we saw with the Sylvaneth there might be some "historic" battalions for narrative play too.
There will also be a new mini starter set this week, with rules, 4 battle plans, 3 Bloodwarriors, 5 Bloodreavers, 2 Retributors and 3 Liberators.
There will also be some small snap fits sets for 10 pounds each.
Last but not least a new "Getting Started with WHAoS" magazine with a free libarator.
-Aaron
Automatically Appended Next Post: and some more bonesplitta details from the same source
Bull0 wrote: I really want to get my hands on the generals handbook and start trying out these new points costs and stuff, but GW direct order haven't even fething dispatched my copy yet. I don't know why I went to them direct. I can't ever be bothered to go with a discounter for one or two items. Still, "2-3 working days" my arse.
General's Handbook isn't released until the 22nd, they won't send it til then.
Oh, well, my face is red. When did they start doing 2-week preorder windows? I know they had a long one for that Lost Patrol thing. Thanks for the heads-up. In fact it's longer than 2 weeks. It's... 3... bastards
Bull0 wrote: I really want to get my hands on the generals handbook and start trying out these new points costs and stuff, but GW direct order haven't even fething dispatched my copy yet. I don't know why I went to them direct. I can't ever be bothered to go with a discounter for one or two items. Still, "2-3 working days" my arse.
General's Handbook isn't released until the 22nd, they won't send it til then.
Oh, well, my face is red. When did they start doing 2-week preorder windows? I know they had a long one for that Lost Patrol thing. Thanks for the heads-up. In fact it's longer than 2 weeks. It's... 3... bastards
This is the first apart from Lost Patrol and that Khorne board game. I'm guessing they wanted to ensure they had the stock or something.
This makes me happy! as previously looking into Orcs n Gobbos for a playable army I have not seen many people field Savage Orks... maybe I just haven't seen much overall...
This is an excellent opportunity for a good starting box and a cool book! (hopefully not expensive) well done GW!
ImAGeek wrote: This is the first apart from Lost Patrol and that Khorne board game. I'm guessing they wanted to ensure they had the stock or something.
Not stock reason. What they would get from that? So many orders they order new? Wouldn't arrive on storehouses within week so can't be that.
More likely just an experiment. Whole book is unusual for them as it's accelerated schedule release to begin with.
Games Workshop has switched to a kind of monthly release cycle again. The first week, which is also accompanied by the back-to-monthly White Dwarf, brings a big release - like Sylvaneth last week - and the following three or four weeks Start Collecting sets, new paints, Battletomes for armies that get only repacked miniatures or board games like Gorechosen.
This is actually happening for the third month in a row now - starting with Orruks - and means they put all the main release's products into week 1 instead of spreading them among three or four weeks like they did in the last two years.
It is unknow at the moment if products of week 2 and beyond will be teasered and shown in that month's WD - previous to their preorder date.
In general there will be one big release at the beginning of the month and several of all kinds (which doesnt have to be minor ones - could be a new scenery range) later on.
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First pics of Storm of Sigmar mini-starterset and Getting started-Magazine - via Spikeybits forum
Given that they had to cut new tooling for whatever sprue layout combines just those parts anyway, it's a bit of a shame all of those are existing sculpts from the starter box. Some new poses would have been nice.
So I made the unfortunate mistake of putting the Generals Handbook in my shoping cart along with 4 boxes of the new Wood Elves on July 7th. A sales rep tells me my order is still pending because the book doesnt ship until the 22nd...
Chopxsticks wrote: So I made the unfortunate mistake of putting the Generals Handbook in my shoping cart along with 4 boxes of the new Wood Elves on July 7th. A sales rep tells me my order is still pending because the book doesnt ship until the 22nd...
This is standard policy for a lot of online retailers - just clarify you want them sent seperately.
That's down to the artist, not the medium. You might prefer hand sculpted models/oil paintings, but they aren't objectively better mediums than digital art/CAD. It's down to the artist and personal preference.
After reading this, I guess I just miss the old style. Maybe not because it wasn't digital art/CAD ( I like it a lot when it's done well) it's because I am not seeing awesome art, or even good art right now. So when I think of good or awesome GW art it was when GW didn't use it. So maybe GW just needs to start paying artists who can actually do the work instead hiring on attitude. After all I want to buy a great pictures, not a shoddy pictures because the person had a great attitude. It was the pictures that got me into 40K since back then the minis were just meh or good. Now the mins are good/great/awesome but the art work is just meh or bad now.
I will not be blaming digital art/CAD no more, just blame GW for releasing poor art work that is not a premium product..
That said, I know the artists work real hard for this, and it's a shame I have to blame them. Thing is when I am buying a "premium" product (GW terms) then I expect premium artwork. The art in AoS does not justify a premium price. I know not the artist fault, but still not a premium product.
I think some of it may have to do with AoS in general. It seems that the 40K books retain a high level of artwork, especially the covers, while the AoS artwork just seems kind of generic. Given that 40K is the cash cow and AoS is the new product still building its fan base, I guess this sort of makes sense.
Nope, it's just them cutting corners by commissioning art work to independent artists. They are sent photos of studio models and told to replicate them in CG form, while the in-house illustrators continue to turn in excellent work. It's not hard to tell which pictures are by outside parties (hint: it's the sucky ones).
40K is no different in this regard, plenty of shoddy art work in the publications, especially supplemental material.
Yeah, I'm happy with both new art and production (print quality) -- a lot of old art is "iconic", but that doesn't make new art worse.
Going to the new AoS starter box... holy cow, that's cheap. I have no idea why I'd want more the models in them, but I'm pretty sure I'll grab one just because of the price. You can't even buy 2 sets of FW Rhino doors for that price
So I just bought into the Sylvaneth release, and noticed I had a box of Sisters of Avelorn, Wild Riders, and Wildwood rangers, now ones from "Wanderers" while the other is "Sylvaneth" but they are both from Order Grand Alliance. So can they all be fielded together?
Chopxsticks wrote: So I just bought into the Sylvaneth release, and noticed I had a box of Sisters of Avelorn, Wild Riders, and Wildwood rangers, now ones from "Wanderers" while the other is "Sylvaneth" but they are both from Order Grand Alliance. So can they all be fielded together?
Yes.
With AOS you can literally field anything you own at the same time.
Chopxsticks wrote: So I just bought into the Sylvaneth release, and noticed I had a box of Sisters of Avelorn, Wild Riders, and Wildwood rangers, now ones from "Wanderers" while the other is "Sylvaneth" but they are both from Order Grand Alliance. So can they all be fielded together?
Yes.
With AOS you can literally field anything you own at the same time.
What the GHB has introduced is allegiance - bonuses for bringing things from a specific Grand Alliance or faction. Since they are both Order you could use them together and get the benefits of Order allegiance but you would give up the slightly more potent benefits of Sylvaneth allegiance. So while Sylvaneth have a better set of allegiance abilities (faction allegiance replaces the alliance one -- you can't benefit from both Order and Sylvaneth at once) that comes with a heavily restricted subset of options. On the opposite end of the scale you could mix & match Chaos with Wanderers and undead but you wouldn't get any allegiance benefits at all.
So I hope Faction bonus's are far more substantial? Using the Wanderers as an example, they have far fewer models than say Seraphon, and then you have Shadow Blades that only have 2 units... Is it safe to assume that the General's Handbook might say something like a Faction includes "These sub factions"??
Chopxsticks wrote: So I hope Faction bonus's are far more substantial? Using the Wanderers as an example, they have far fewer models than say Seraphon, and then you have Shadow Blades that only have 2 units... Is it safe to assume that the General's Handbook might say something like a Faction includes "These sub factions"??
The General's Handbook only has Allegiance Abilities for the Grand Alliances. Other Allegiance Abilities will be in the appropriate Battletomes.
Upon a closer look at the site though, it looks like Death Grand Alliance, and Destruction Grand Alliance are at a slight disadvantage selection wise..
Rumors from Atia were there will be a release of snapfit-model boxes in addition to this Mini-Starter set. If you are interested in specific miniatures wait until pics of these sets arrive. Afaik they are next week but I could remember that wrong and they go into preorder this weekend as well.
The Season of War website is now live!
Take a look, find your nearest participating store, and get ready for the first ever Warhammer Age of Sigmar global campaign.
Warhams-77 wrote: Rumors from Atia were there will be a release of snapfit-model boxes in addition to this Mini-Starter set. If you are interested in specific miniatures wait until pics of these sets arrive. Afaik they are next week but I could remember that wrong and they go into preorder this weekend as well.
Interesting. I'd really like a cheap source of Stormcast, because I'd like to try painting them the colors of various Stormhosts. I was considering doing the mini-starter pack, but I need another Bloodreaver like I need a hole in the head.
Just seen the prices on the Bonesplittas repacks. The clam packs are unchanged. It is now £30 for 20 savage orruks, or 10 boar Boyz. That is about a 15% per model discount.
As an aside I was curious so I checked some prices and discovered that you can get a 1000 point army for £100 for every faction except the ironjawz, fyreslayers and flesheaters. (the £130 flesh eater bundle gives almost 1500 points though). The fyreslayers are by far the most expensive faction to collect. 1000 points costs a minimum of £160.
I don't think this has been shared. It is £10 for 2 retributors, 2 liberators and a prime, 2 blood warriors and a champion, or 4 bloodreavers and a chieften. The bloodreavers seem like a bad deal. The others are ok. That said £10 brings them into the range of an impulse buy.
How do unit sizes work with the General's Handbook? Can you add just two Liberators to a unit or do you need to add them in sets? Or can you have a unit of just three Liberators (5 is the minimum on the warscroll)? I plan to pick one of the mini sets for painting practice, but it seems like a horrible way to add to your army - monopose and you'll end up with way more champions than you need.
I think they are aimed at pure beginners, kids, painters or those who want to bulk out the Starter set a little. In narrative or open play it doesn't matter what size your units are so odd sizes is not a problem.
For matched play, the Starter set comes with 3 retributors so two more makes a legal matched play unit. I have a free liberator from Wd. The new magazine has one too. So three more makes a unit. I think this is the use case for experienced players.
Sqorgar wrote: How do unit sizes work with the General's Handbook? Can you add just two Liberators to a unit or do you need to add them in sets? Or can you have a unit of just three Liberators (5 is the minimum on the warscroll)? I plan to pick one of the mini sets for painting practice, but it seems like a horrible way to add to your army - monopose and you'll end up with way more champions than you need.
Sure you CAN add just 2 more. You just pay full price of 5.
Could be a good way to bring the starter box Retributors up to a squad of five depending on the models they use. Hopefully its not the same two in the Storm of Sigmar set as one of them is the prime.
*reads the text* Damn
Sqorgar wrote: How do unit sizes work with the General's Handbook? Can you add just two Liberators to a unit or do you need to add them in sets? Or can you have a unit of just three Liberators (5 is the minimum on the warscroll)? I plan to pick one of the mini sets for painting practice, but it seems like a horrible way to add to your army - monopose and you'll end up with way more champions than you need.
Sure you CAN add just 2 more. You just pay full price of 5.
Did you read the comment you replied to? They're saying that the box set comes with 3, matched play has them in minimum units of 5. This means that if you buy the box of 2 to add to the starter, and then you have a unit of 5
Sqorgar wrote: How do unit sizes work with the General's Handbook? Can you add just two Liberators to a unit or do you need to add them in sets? Or can you have a unit of just three Liberators (5 is the minimum on the warscroll)? I plan to pick one of the mini sets for painting practice, but it seems like a horrible way to add to your army - monopose and you'll end up with way more champions than you need.
Sure you CAN add just 2 more. You just pay full price of 5.
Did you read the comment you replied to? They're saying that the box set comes with 3, matched play has them in minimum units of 5. This means that if you buy the box of 2 to add to the starter, and then you have a unit of 5
I think you might want to re-read the comment they replied to mate.
Sqorgar wrote: How do unit sizes work with the General's Handbook? Can you add just two Liberators to a unit or do you need to add them in sets? Or can you have a unit of just three Liberators (5 is the minimum on the warscroll)? I plan to pick one of the mini sets for painting practice, but it seems like a horrible way to add to your army - monopose and you'll end up with way more champions than you need.
Sure you CAN add just 2 more. You just pay full price of 5.
Did you read the comment you replied to? They're saying that the box set comes with 3, matched play has them in minimum units of 5. This means that if you buy the box of 2 to add to the starter, and then you have a unit of 5
Oh I read it just fine. Did you?
Can you add just two Liberators to a unit or do you need to add them in sets?
Adding to a unit. Not starting new unit.
You can add 2 to unit of 5 yes. It just means you paid for 5 liberators for 2. What part of that is unclear to you?
It is interesting that these boxes have the 'easy to build'-logo and the Collect-Paint-etc slogan like the Battle for Vedros sets. So, Age of Sigmar now has a similiar intro product range. They could be available in model and toy stores as well.
I think I'll have to grab the mini-starter at least; I've no interest in building a Khorne force and don't want to add Stormcast to my Order army just yet, but I absolutely want to paint up some of each, and you've got the makings of two Warbands for a fantasy skirmish game of your choice there as well. At £20, so about £16 after online discount, it's a very tempting set. Not sure about the 2-3 model expansions just yet, add one of each and you might as well buy the whole starter, but it's good to have options.
Maybe the mini Starter has warscrolls with reduced counts. I think AoS would probably scale well to a smaller game with 3 man units. Then the mini Liberators box would be a full unit for mini-AoS.
I'll be honest, if they did that for more factions, I'd be really likely to dip my toes in for pretty much every one. A box of 3 dryads? A handful of slave to darkness? Sure, I'll get em, paint em up, and try them out in a small mini-AoS battle. If I liked it, then I'd invest in the 30+ models at $400 for a full army. It'd be even better if they worked with Silver Tower.
Sqorgar wrote: Maybe the mini Starter has warscrolls with reduced counts. I think AoS would probably scale well to a smaller game with 3 man units. Then the mini Liberators box would be a full unit for mini-AoS.
I'll be honest, if they did that for more factions, I'd be really likely to dip my toes in for pretty much every one. A box of 3 dryads? A handful of slave to darkness? Sure, I'll get em, paint em up, and try them out in a small mini-AoS battle. If I liked it, then I'd invest in the 30+ models at $400 for a full army. It'd be even better if they worked with Silver Tower.
Huh?
Highly doubt they will make "mini" warscrolls. The game already scales to however much you want to play. You can take whatever you want already in open or narrative play.
The whole purpose of this mini box set is to show you the AoS mechanics to see if you like it. It could cost them tooooons of $ to break apart sets and make custom boxes then ship em out for every faction. If you like this mini set, then it gets you to buy the starter OR invest in another army. You can try and proxy anything since the rules are free to see if you like it before buying.
The start collecting boxes are cheap as dirt to get in. Pick up 2 of them and a character and you probably have close to 1000 points if your doing points all for about 150$
In the starter set and the first campaign book (before the Realmgate Wars series) the warscrolls for Liberators, Retributors, Blood Warriors, and Bloodreavers all said a unit could be any number of models. I'd wager the mini starter may do something similar.
Obviously the warscrolls in the app and on the site supercede them, however. And the GHB is pretty clear on unit sizes. So smaller or 'any' sized units are purely for new players to get to grips on the game.
) enough.
