Dudeface wrote: This is ultimately a subjective issue, to me either you're the front line guy charging and you have your vet buddies who are there to watch your back, or you're the strategist at the back pulling strings and need the aides to manage things with you. For me, neither of those is 4 guys with plasma guns. If that's your fluff then fair play, you do you, but there will be a chunk of people who just wanted an efficient weapon squad, which that's OK too but just accept that reason.
In Asskicking Equals Authority world why is it not a valid option that an officer's hand-picked support squad is the regiment's four best marksmen armed with four copies of the most powerful gun a guardsman can carry? Why would the biggest badasses in the regiment carry pathetic guns like basic rifles or grenade launchers when they can do way more damage with a plasma or melta gun?
(Now, if they could take a belt-fed gatling grenade launcher armed with melta bombs or an inferno cannon ripped off a Hellhound you might have a point...)
Dudeface wrote: This is ultimately a subjective issue, to me either you're the front line guy charging and you have your vet buddies who are there to watch your back, or you're the strategist at the back pulling strings and need the aides to manage things with you. For me, neither of those is 4 guys with plasma guns. If that's your fluff then fair play, you do you, but there will be a chunk of people who just wanted an efficient weapon squad, which that's OK too but just accept that reason.
In Asskicking Equals Authority world why is it not a valid option that an officer's hand-picked support squad is the regiment's four best marksmen armed with four copies of the most powerful gun a guardsman can carry? Why would the biggest badasses in the regiment carry pathetic guns like basic rifles or grenade launchers when they can do way more damage with a plasma or melta gun?
Because if he want to charge people, 4 plasma gunners aren't going to do much in melee. Like I say its subjective reasoning. You've already highlighted your thought process but it seems to come from "I want the 4 biggest best guns the game will let me", which in itself is OK, but own that for what it is.
Dudeface wrote: Because if he want to charge people, 4 plasma gunners aren't going to do much in melee. Like I say its subjective reasoning. You've already highlighted your thought process but it seems to come from "I want the 4 biggest best guns the game will let me", which in itself is OK, but own that for what it is.
Four plasma gunners won't do much in melee but neither will any of the other options, and it's absolutely fluffy that an officer and command squad will charge into battle to shoot things to death.
And "I want the four biggest guns the game will let me take" is not the same as "I want the most efficient unit for winning games". If plasma guns were increased in price and plasma command squads were no longer an efficient competitive choice the squad of an officer (with plasma pistol and power fist and/or relics) and four plasma/melta guns would still be a fluffy and appealing choice in Asskicking Equals Authority world.
Four plasma gunners won't do much in melee but neither will any of the other options
That sounds more like a problem with the options. If we go with the Asskicing Equals Authority route then the Imperial Guard Officer should be able to pick up a Thunder Hammer (for example) to wreck face because he has the Authority and thus he is doing the Asskicking. His Command Squad should be more akin to glorified cheerleaders because they don't have the Authority and thus they shouldn't be doing the Asskicking either.
AtoMaki wrote: That sounds more like a problem with the options. If we go with the Asskicing Equals Authority route then the Imperial Guard Officer should be able to pick up a Thunder Hammer (for example) to wreck face because he has the Authority and thus he is doing the Asskicking. His Command Squad should be more akin to glorified cheerleaders because they don't have the Authority and thus they shouldn't be doing the Asskicking either.
The command squad is part of the same unit and gets both Asskicking and Authority. And as much as I'd like to see officers with thunder hammers that's probably a level of power that is reserved for marine HQ characters.
AtoMaki wrote: That sounds more like a problem with the options. If we go with the Asskicing Equals Authority route then the Imperial Guard Officer should be able to pick up a Thunder Hammer (for example) to wreck face because he has the Authority and thus he is doing the Asskicking. His Command Squad should be more akin to glorified cheerleaders because they don't have the Authority and thus they shouldn't be doing the Asskicking either.
The command squad is part of the same unit and gets both Asskicking and Authority. And as much as I'd like to see officers with thunder hammers that's probably a level of power that is reserved for marine HQ characters.
That's not how the trope works. It is not divisible (that would be a Badass Army) and no "levels of power" is the whole point of having it.
AtoMaki wrote: That's not how the trope works. It is not divisible (that would be a Badass Army) and no "levels of power" is the whole point of having it.
Now you're getting into pointless nitpicking of your exact personal definition of a bit of fluff and there is no point in further discussion.
AtoMaki wrote: That's not how the trope works. It is not divisible (that would be a Badass Army) and no "levels of power" is the whole point of having it.
Now you're getting into pointless nitpicking of your exact personal definition of a bit of fluff and there is no point in further discussion.
This is not nitpicking, I'm just pointing out that you are trying to use the trope wrong. You are talking about a Badass Army, not Authority Equals Asskicking. You should clarify that because it will make your argument better. Personally, I find this whole "muh 4 plasma guns" discussion rather hilarious, so I'm really just here to help and nothing else .
Four plasma gunners won't do much in melee but neither will any of the other options, and it's absolutely fluffy that an officer and command squad will charge into battle to shoot things to death.
And "I want the four biggest guns the game will let me take" is not the same as "I want the most efficient unit for winning games". If plasma guns were increased in price and plasma command squads were no longer an efficient competitive choice the squad of an officer (with plasma pistol and power fist and/or relics) and four plasma/melta guns would still be a fluffy and appealing choice in Asskicking Equals Authority world.
They can have melee weapons as a heads up, but I disagree that people would still consider it an appealing option, I'd wager the next efficient option would magically appear and we'd have the same discussion. But like I said the whole time it's subjective, what these things mean to different players is different, even for those of asimilar mind track as shown.
What's clear for me is that IG command squads and platoon command squads have, for the longest time, had some options to touch someone from a safe distance so that they could have some effect in the battlefield outside of command bubbles or orders, and now they mostly don't.
And they never really had enough close combat options to a) be effective in any measure or b) compensate for the fact that they are either going to die quick or lose the ability to give orders because they'll be engaged.
For the record, I tended to use them with mortars, because leading fom the front has never appealed to me for IG commanders.
Dudeface wrote: This is ultimately a subjective issue, to me either you're the front line guy charging and you have your vet buddies who are there to watch your back, or you're the strategist at the back pulling strings and need the aides to manage things with you. For me, neither of those is 4 guys with plasma guns. If that's your fluff then fair play, you do you, but there will be a chunk of people who just wanted an efficient weapon squad, which that's OK too but just accept that reason.
In Asskicking Equals Authority world why is it not a valid option that an officer's hand-picked support squad is the regiment's four best marksmen armed with four copies of the most powerful gun a guardsman can carry? Why would the biggest badasses in the regiment carry pathetic guns like basic rifles or grenade launchers when they can do way more damage with a plasma or melta gun?
Because if he want to charge people, 4 plasma gunners aren't going to do much in melee. Like I say its subjective reasoning. You've already highlighted your thought process but it seems to come from "I want the 4 biggest best guns the game will let me", which in itself is OK, but own that for what it is.
Why would a handful of squishy humans want to engage the enemy in melee? Shouldn't they want to avoid being in combat so the commander can keep, well, commanding, and instead rely on the grunts to do the fighting?
Guardsmen are not space marines. Their officers are not meant to leroy jenkins into the enemy.
Can we not spend pages on complaining with the same arguments over and over. You guys realize these could have been written by anyone and posted as "leaks". Really put the salt in "pinch of salt"
Robcio wrote: Can we not spend pages on complaining with the same arguments over and over. You guys realize these could have been written by anyone and posted as "leaks". Really put the salt in "pinch of salt"
Which leaks are being 'discussed' this time? The thread is tough to catch up on quickly with another umpteen pages of bickering added this weekend
Robcio wrote: Can we not spend pages on complaining with the same arguments over and over. You guys realize these could have been written by anyone and posted as "leaks". Really put the salt in "pinch of salt"
So... let's not discuss news and rumors in the IG News & Rumors thread of the News & Rumors section?
Robcio wrote: Can we not spend pages on complaining with the same arguments over and over. You guys realize these could have been written by anyone and posted as "leaks". Really put the salt in "pinch of salt"
So... let's not discuss news and rumors in the IG News & Rumors thread of the News & Rumors section?
Yeah, that follows
To be fair, as much as the conversation relates to the limited command squad options in the rumours, the fluff vs power gaming debate isn't likely relevant.
Looks like the box might be up on Saturday...no preorder preview/Week in Warhammer yet. They said they wanted to "save the cover reveal for last" as it had spoilers.
Kanluwen wrote: Looks like the box might be up on Saturday...no preorder preview/Week in Warhammer yet. They said they wanted to "save the cover reveal for last" as it had spoilers.
Argh!
Our clocks went back last night, so it will be an hour later than you have recently been used to.
Seems weird that they'd put Guard up for pre-order before they've finished showing off the new models. Isn't tonight's reveal meant to be Mr. Horseyman?
I was expecting Slaves to Darkness in early December, but hey, November's good. Shame we won't see that DP released separately for a while.
Robcio wrote: Can we not spend pages on complaining with the same arguments over and over. You guys realize these could have been written by anyone and posted as "leaks". Really put the salt in "pinch of salt"
The leaks are from a source with a record of accuracy and align perfectly with the "no model no rules" precedents GW has followed in previous books. Do you have a specific reason for doubting them or are you just trying to shut down a discussion you don't like?
Robcio wrote: Can we not spend pages on complaining with the same arguments over and over. You guys realize these could have been written by anyone and posted as "leaks". Really put the salt in "pinch of salt"
The leaks are from a source with a record of accuracy and align perfectly with the "no model no rules" precedents GW has followed in previous books. Do you have a specific reason for doubting them or are you just trying to shut down a discussion you don't like?
Here specifically we’ve already seen one rumour which caused (understandable) upset to be the result of a poorly worded transcript - specifically that Cadian Infantry Squads would lose access to Heavy Weapons.
And so there is room for other stuff to have been lost in translation. That doesn’t make a rumour false or misleading. Just partially inaccurate.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: And so there is room for other stuff to have been lost in translation. That doesn’t make a rumour false or misleading. Just partially inaccurate.
But, again: "... and align perfectly with the "no model no rules" precedents GW has followed in previous books...".
So... ?
This is (yet another) situation where us being wrong is a good thing. Seems to always be the case with GW rules.
Honestly I don't know why people get excited by new Codices. It's always such a crap shoot over what you gain vs how much you lose.
Not sure if all of this here or not but I saw it and figured I would share it.
According to this, pre-order for the box is 12th November.
Correct. Tomorrow is the last model preview (the mounted lord solar), at the end of the week guard will get the "up for pre-order next week" article, then the box will go up for pre-order on the 12th. The clickbait site is just reposting what we already know from GW.
I now regret using all my Voxes for conversions. Anyone have extras that I can slap on my guys?
Someone made a comment about no one using grenade launchers.....When the Stormtroopers got their own rules a ton of players switched to using grenade launchers because they meshed with the regiment's rules. I think an additional -1 to AP???
I now regret using all my Voxes for conversions. Anyone have extras that I can slap on my guys?
Someone made a comment about no one using grenade launchers.....When the Stormtroopers got their own rules a ton of players switched to using grenade launchers because they meshed with the regiment's rules. I think an additional -1 to AP???
The Lions, yeah. However they still weren't getting used with Grenade Launchers, they just merely used them better.
Back before you had to scatter every blast marker shot (thanks Jervis!) I was a big fan of Grenade Launchers, specifically in Command Squads. My Cadian and Tallarn Command Squads are built around quad Grenade Launchers, as it was fun to throw four blast markers at something. They were generally greater than the sum of their parts.
Yes, 4 flamers or 4 Meltas were better overall (I don't believe I ever took 4 Plasmas... too risky!), but the unit was fun.
Remember that, GW? "Fun". Taking away options usually results in the opposite of "fun".
Hell, I HAVE melee equipped Command Squads because one of my Guard armies are Imperial Beastmen and it's fluffy, fun, AND funny trying to bring things down with them because they're fanatical about doing it.
Platuan4th wrote: Hell, I HAVE melee equipped Command Squads because one of my Guard armies are Imperial Beastmen and it's fluffy, fun, AND funny trying to bring things down with them because they're fanatical about doing it.
Putting here ideas: mine is a Traitor Guard army very melee focused
I think I will have a lot of fun trying some of the new rules, because, for example, I think you can have a command squad with 5 power fists? Sounds fun
H.B.M.C. wrote: Back before you had to scatter every blast marker shot (thanks Jervis!) I was a big fan of Grenade Launchers, specifically in Command Squads. My Cadian and Tallarn Command Squads are built around quad Grenade Launchers, as it was fun to throw four blast markers at something. They were generally greater than the sum of their parts.
Yes, 4 flamers or 4 Meltas were better overall (I don't believe I ever took 4 Plasmas... too risky!), but the unit was fun.
Remember that, GW? "Fun". Taking away options usually results in the opposite of "fun".
Yeah, back then my main IG army was all footsloggers with MLs and GLs, plust mortars for the command squads. Like, a crap ton of them.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Back before you had to scatter every blast marker shot (thanks Jervis!) I was a big fan of Grenade Launchers, specifically in Command Squads. My Cadian and Tallarn Command Squads are built around quad Grenade Launchers, as it was fun to throw four blast markers at something. They were generally greater than the sum of their parts.
Yes, 4 flamers or 4 Meltas were better overall (I don't believe I ever took 4 Plasmas... too risky!), but the unit was fun.
Remember that, GW? "Fun". Taking away options usually results in the opposite of "fun".
*Points to spreadsheet* But the graph is going up. That means the game must be fun! See, the graph proves it.
If the leaked playtest rules are a good representation of the final product, it's shaping up to be another Schrodinger's codex balancing good overall quality of life improvements (playable without being at a disadvantage) vs dumb corporate policy (NMNR) forcing the codex writer's hand.
Most of the silliest restrictions can be worked around with a bit of creativity, having your infantry squads count-as the new snow flake infantry squad variants can fill in some of the specialist gaps (want a DKoK flamer squad? Use the Catachan profile and call them Krieg Trench Fighters etc).
Has anyone figured out how Scions might fit in though? The new orders mechanic looks like it might not work for deep striking units, and they likely don't have obsec (being elites) or special weapon density anymore either.
Now they just need to release the other 80% of the titan head, and then the rest of the titan in plastic. Didnt expect to see a reaver in plastic before a warhound though...
For the Lord Solar, he feels a bit bland. His overall design is also somewhat lacking in 40k theming, where it not for the Aquila he wouldn't look at all out of place in WHFB/AOS. Even the old Solar Macharius miniature had a bit more to his armour than that does.
He's missing the over-the-top decoration that you'd expect of high ranking Imperial leaders, and the extra enhancements and unique elements that would make him feel like someone special.
Mentlegen324 wrote: For the Lord Solar, he feels a bit bland. His overall design is also somewhat lacking in 40k theming, where it not for the Aquila he wouldn't look at all out of place in WHFB/AOS. Even the old Solar Macharius miniature had a bit more to his armour than that does.
He's missing the over-the-top decoration that you'd expect of high ranking Imperial leaders, and the extra enhancements and unique elements that would make him feel like someone special.
I feel like that is part of the point. He is wearing somewhat elaborate gear and rides a servo horse, but at the end of the day he isn't the leader of the cyborgs or genehanced star knights or religious fanatics in power armor. He's the leader of the squishy human faction who make do with blood, grit, and massive firepower, with the occasional need to get close and hit things with a sword.
Wow, this "lord solar" is the most generic space fantasy general I've seen in a long time. I bet I can make a more convincing one with the old Empire general kit and some IG parts
It's a very uninspired release
godardc wrote: Wow, this "lord solar" is the most generic space fantasy general I've seen in a long time. I bet I can make a more convincing one with the old Empire general kit and some IG parts It's a very uninspired release
I honestly thought, when I saw the preview and didn't realize it was an Imperial Guard release, they were showing more previews of the Cities of Sigmar stuff.
It's a bit mediocre. It is not bad model per se, but looks like something GW would have made a decade or more ago. And the paintjob certainly isn't doing it any favours.
Mentlegen324 wrote: For the Lord Solar, he feels a bit bland. His overall design is also somewhat lacking in 40k theming, where it not for the Aquila he wouldn't look at all out of place in WHFB/AOS. Even the old Solar Macharius miniature had a bit more to his armour than that does.
He's missing the over-the-top decoration that you'd expect of high ranking Imperial leaders, and the extra enhancements and unique elements that would make him feel like someone special.
I feel like that is part of the point. He is wearing somewhat elaborate gear and rides a servo horse, but at the end of the day he isn't the leader of the cyborgs or genehanced star knights or religious fanatics in power armor. He's the leader of the squishy human faction who make do with blood, grit, and massive firepower, with the occasional need to get close and hit things with a sword.
I don't feel like that's a good reason really, he can be a fitting representation of the Imperial Guard and still have enough decoration to make him interesting at the same time. This guy is meant to be one of the most important figures, yet they've gone for something that looks no more special than a WHFB Empire General. He doesn't really have anything to make him seem unqiue, to me even something like the Necromunda House Grieg Kreig Meister and miniatures of Rogue Traders feels more special than he does.
Kanluwen wrote: Dude's dressed as an anachronistic warmaster of olde, and he's "no more special" than a WHFB empire general...while riding a mechanical horse.
Kanluwen wrote: Dude's dressed as an anachronistic warmaster of olde, and he's "no more special" than a WHFB empire general...while riding a mechanical horse.
Kanluwen wrote: Dude's dressed as an anachronistic warmaster of olde, and he's "no more special" than a WHFB empire general...while riding a mechanical horse.
Got it.
In the context he's in of the 40k setting, where we've seen far more elaborate and unique designs, then yes not that interesting in comparison to what else we've seen. I wouldn't say he's meant to be "dressed as an anachronistic warmaster of olde" is something itself that stands out when looking like historical uniforms is just part of the Imperial Guard and the Imperiums theming overall, either.
Tyel wrote: Its a no from me. Worst concept GW have made in some time. Mediocre model in completely the wrong army.
How is it the wrong army though? Genuinely curious.
The Guard is an amalgamation of modern and future technology with the ethos and tactics of Napoleonic-era armies.
This dude is like space Napoleon and the model clearly takes inspiration from this painting.
Apple fox wrote: I feel they where going for a old painting look you see of a lord on his horse with a sword.
But guy with sword is soo common that the horse has to carry a lot of the theme, and nether are that unique or special from other GW offerings.
Apple Fox nails it in one. The horse has to carry a lot of the theme, and what's special about the horse(it being cybernetically preserved rather than just a mechanical horse) is a bit too subtle.
The augmetics are mostly a flawless white. There are a few oil streaks around bolts but that's it for the most part.
Kanluwen wrote: Dude's dressed as an anachronistic warmaster of olde, and he's "no more special" than a WHFB empire general...while riding a mechanical horse.
His steed Konstantin* is decades old, now largely cybernetic and clad in gleaming armour.
Cybernetically preserved horses weren't a thing in WHFB though.
Just sayin' that a general on a mechanical horse (clockwork or cybernetically preserved) is well within WHF... I mean, AoS expectations. This Lord Solar wouldn't stick out from the Free Cities range at all, especially with that Sigmarite iconography.
Gert wrote: You can't tell that the model with Imperial Aquilas, cybernetics, and is standing on a Reaver Titan head is from 40k?
Not at first glance, no. If you can put him in an army from AoS he can probably blend in for a while.
Cybernetics isn't that much of a tell because they aren't that obvious and you can get some weird golem stuff in AoS as well, no?
The only big give away is the base, yes. But the model should be the focus of, well, the model, not the base.
The crest on his helmet is more similar to that sort of sun crest motif thing you see on AoS models. If they had given him a crest more like the one Lord Solar Macharius has and a gun, maybe lean more into the cybernetic body horror on the horse, I think it would look a lot better in a 40k army.
I don't really mind the gold armour that much because they're clearly trying to copy Lord Solar Macharius. The problem is though is that between the clean colour scheme, the lack of firearms (yes, he has a pistol but it's not obvious and it looks more like a flintlock than something the Imperium would issue. You know, like what you would find in WHFB/AoS), the sun crest (why not a laureal like Macharius or a lion crest? His name is Leontus. Lord Solar is a title, not a name. Macharius didn't have a sun crest, so it's not part of the uniform.) and the relative lack of augments on the horse in a setting known for body horror, he doesn't quite fit 40k as much as he should and I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people thought he was a AoS model at first.
Tyel wrote: Its a no from me. Worst concept GW have made in some time. Mediocre model in completely the wrong army.
How is it the wrong army though? Genuinely curious.
The Guard is an amalgamation of modern and future technology with the ethos and tactics of Napoleonic-era armies.
This dude is like space Napoleon and the model clearly takes inspiration from this painting.
Spoiler:
I thought of exactly the same painting... would have been pretty cool
Edit: I mean: would have been cool, if the model have caught the flair of that painting better
I love yarrick and hope he comes back but the dude should be dead he’s like a million years old and shouldn’t be alive.
I am glad we got a commander on horse BUT I think I would have rather seen the lord solar for the imperium on a chariot type platform containing multiple advisors. It makes no sense but they could have leaned into the Roman emperor theme.
My 1st thought was "Damn, now I'll have to find a really good commission painter to match this to my AoS Cities army. :("
{the guy who painted my Dogs of War WFB army, nowdays used as CoS, is long gone & I've already failed at matching his work}
Love the model. Have no intention of using it for 40k though. I'll probably buy two - one to get painted to match my AoS Cities force, & the 2nd to serve for an RPG character
Tyel wrote: Its a no from me. Worst concept GW have made in some time. Mediocre model in completely the wrong army.
How is it the wrong army though? Genuinely curious.
The Guard is an amalgamation of modern and future technology with the ethos and tactics of Napoleonic-era armies.
This dude is like space Napoleon and the model clearly takes inspiration from this painting.
Spoiler:
I can only speak for myself, but apart from giving off huge Fantasy vibes (which you don't seem to agree with!), the model is so, so different from any other Guard model that I can think of, meaning that it stands out like a sore thumb.
Warhammer Fans: This new model sucks! It's got way too many bits and bobs on it! It looks like it's from Star Craft, wtf? Woah GW, this model needs to look more generic for my conversions!
Also Warhammer Fans: This new model sucks! It's way too generic! It doesn't even look like it belongs in 40K, there are no identifying bits and bobs on it! This model needs to look more like [faction]! WTFGW?!
It seems like they've moved away from the grouped models on a huge base centerpiece thing, but AM would have been perfect for a "command post" type model - officers around a table, radio man, servitors, maybe make it a dugout or trench with bunker entrances.
But hey fantasy cavalry dude is... something I guess.
I like the theme behind it more than I like the model itself. The gold gilded pristine lord general on his white charger while the dirty poor footsoldiers die in their thousands while he does not bat an eye? Yep that fits the bill.
The model itself though? Tricky. I don't mind it but I'm not particularly blown away by it.
Out of context I think not great. If this was shown at the head of a Praetorian army or a custom regiment, it would fit very well.
If it were me designing it, I would have added some servo skulls and cherubs that held his cloak in a noble flowing pose.
The best I can say is that the problems I have are easily fixable. And maybe that's the point. For me a guard kit should be easy to convert to something individual that I want in my army.
Needed a Picklehaube helmet, a row of medals and a baton rather than a sword, then with a grimdark paint job I could see it being a Baroque Imperial officer.
Gonna buck the trend and say I actually like it quite a lot. Not keen on the face, wish it had a full face mask but I reckon I could paint it up like that.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Not at first glance, no. If you can put him in an army from AoS he can probably blend in for a while.
Why though. Is it because it's a horse? Or because it's painted gold?
Cybernetics isn't that much of a tell because they aren't that obvious and you can get some weird golem stuff in AoS as well, no?
I mean the Skaven do weird stuff but no other faction does clockwork cyborgs or enhancements on biologicals.
The crest on his helmet is more similar to that sort of sun crest motif thing you see on AoS models. If they had given him a crest more like the one Solar Macharius has and a gun, maybe lean more into the cybernetic body horror on the horse, I think it would look a lot better in a 40k army.
He's the Lord Solar. What do you think the crest is meant to represent? He also has the laurels on the helm and has a gun and I'm not sure how they could have gone body horror when it has no natural legs, a robotic eye and tubes in its neck. It's got more enhancements than the Death Korps riders do. The only thing Macharius had that this model doesn't is thigh armour.
Undead_Love-Machine wrote: I can only speak for myself, but apart from giving off huge Fantasy vibes (which you don't seem to agree with!), the model is so, so different from any other Guard model that I can think of, meaning that it stands out like a sore thumb.
Edit:, yes, I'm aware that Rough Riders exist!
Just saying "Fantasy Vibes" doesn't actually mean anything though. Is it because the model is mounted on a horse that happens to be painted gold?
Olthannon wrote: I like the theme behind it more than I like the model itself. The gold gilded pristine lord general on his white charger while the dirty poor footsoldiers die in their thousands while he does not bat an eye? Yep that fits the bill.
The model itself though? Tricky. I don't mind it but I'm not particularly blown away by it.
Out of context I think not great. If this was shown at the head of a Praetorian army or a custom regiment, it would fit very well.
If it were me designing it, I would have added some servo skulls and cherubs that held his cloak in a noble flowing pose.
The best I can say is that the problems I have are easily fixable. And maybe that's the point. For me a guard kit should be easy to convert to something individual that I want in my army.
Yeah, some servo skulls would have helped the model a lot. It would make it look more like a 40k model.
Personal take is that between this and the return of Command Squads as just individual models? This was a wasted opportunity for Guard to get a "diorama" model.
This would have been far superior in both instances.
I get where they were going with the Lord Solar. I definitely, 100% think it would look far better with copper or silver instead of white ceramic coating on the metals.
I won't return the model if given it as a gift...but I won't be buying it myself. Not when I can get more interesting stuff.
ScarletRose wrote: It seems like they've moved away from the grouped models on a huge base centerpiece thing, but AM would have been perfect for a "command post" type model - officers around a table, radio man, servitors, maybe make it a dugout or trench with bunker entrances.
But hey fantasy cavalry dude is... something I guess.
Why though. Is it because it's a horse? Or because it's painted gold?
The colour scheme is part of the issue, but also the pose and equipment. There is nothing that really outwardly speaks "40k". He's holding a sword, but rather than being a chainword it's a fairly generic looking blade. He has a gun, but it's not a prominent feature and is not a plasma pistol, bolt pistol or even laspistol. No cherubs, no Servo skulls, nothing of that nature. Yarrick had his huge power klaw and mechanical eye and was obviously a commissar. Macharius had his bolt pistol out. Creed was wearing Cadian uniform. This one just has his sword out and a mechanical horse with subtle modifications and that's it.
I mean the Skaven do weird stuff but no other faction does clockwork cyborgs or enhancements on biologicals.
The Empire also had mechanical clockwork horses. Much more augmented and obvious than the one here, actually. The Skaven weren't the only faction to deal in machinery.
He's the Lord Solar. What do you think the crest is meant to represent? He also has the laurels on the helm and has a gun and I'm not sure how they could have gone body horror when it has no natural legs, a robotic eye and tubes in its neck. It's got more enhancements than the Death Korps riders do. The only thing Macharius had that this model doesn't is thigh armour.
Lord Solar Macharius didn't have a sun crest, just a very prominent Laureal. Do you who know does have sun crests? Storm Casts. I didn't even notice the laurels on the helm because between the sun crest is much more dominant and a minor gold detail tends to blend in against a gold helmet. Death Riders have gasmasks on their mounts. That is much more distinctive than a single tube in the neck and some joints and lends more to the body horror element. Body horror is more than just having some a few clean, unobtrusive augments. Body horror would be the horse clearly having the tubes and circuitry burrowing into it's flesh. Body horror is the horse having to wear a gasmask (especially one that's been surgically implanted) because the battlefields of the future are so hazardous and toxic that it needs such a modification to survive. That is 40k.
Yes, Leontus has a gun. It also looks like a flint lock, not something that the Imperials tend to use. You know, like a bolt pistol. Something Macharius was actively holding that you could clearly see.
Gert wrote: You can't tell that the model with Imperial Aquilas, cybernetics, and is standing on a Reaver Titan head is from 40k?
Instant impression is it’s for AoS.
Take the Reaver head away, and it’s simply not obviously for 40K.
Paint scheme helps a lot in getting that impression, too.
Agreed, with the legs painted white you need to look closely to see that they're actually robotic. I've seen a few people say that they'd paint the legs in metallic colours instead and think that would make a big difference.
Kanluwen wrote: Personal take is that between this and the return of Command Squads as just individual models? This was a wasted opportunity for Guard to get a "diorama" model.
This would have been far superior in both instances.
I get where they were going with the Lord Solar. I definitely, 100% think it would look far better with copper or silver instead of white ceramic coating on the metals.
I won't return the model if given it as a gift...but I won't be buying it myself. Not when I can get more interesting stuff.
Of all the armies to get a diorama model it should have been guard, yes.
Joining the chorus I'm not a fan. I could easily have imagined someone on horseback but I would have out them in a nice archaic uniform with way too many medals and the like. I was thinking something like an excessive Hussar uniform or something else that feels Napoleonic. And I would certainly have added some more visible cybernetics and servo skulls and the like. And, of course, a sort of fitting bodyguard. In terms of weapons, my preference would have been a baton to really accentuate that it's about command and not kicking ass.
Ideally through, something like a group diorama thing where you shave the over the tip general, a few flamboyant aides, and perhaps some Storm Trooper bodyguards or the like.
Ideally through, something like a group diorama thing where you shave the over the tip general, a few flamboyant aides, and perhaps some Storm Trooper bodyguards or the like.
That's why I really like the art I had posted. There's a Commissar, an Inquisitorial representative, servitors linked to datanets, etc.
Throw in Ecclesiarchal, Navy, and Mechanicus representatives? It begins to showcase just what a Lord Solar might be involved in...and opens up some interesting possibilities for unique abilities.
If he’s the precursor to new kits that share his design aesthetic, he’s pretty cool.
As a solitary dude he’s dissapointing. If his base inserts into a bigger scenic base(like FW Primarchs or Gotrek of AoS) and it has him surrounded by command staff/retainers like Glutos and Katakros of AoS, he’d much improve.
Its a great model, i love it. mm but for fantasy or aos not for a general of the empirial gaurd.
it hasnt anny conection to the gaurd no regemint he would belong to, or has a history with. leader on a hors is a stupid idea would be prime target for the enemy
Man, that's an olllllllld fashioned plastic sculpt. It looks like when they first started to translate some WFB Knights into plastic and didn't do a fantastic job all the time.
The horse is just so static - if the head was turning a bit more or something it would look more natural, and the bionics on the legs are not obvious enough so it just looks like the articulation joints on an action figure more than a cyborg horse. Leontus himself also feels pretty static, especially with his helm and collar making him feel like he has a fat neck. He's also looking... sort of twenty foot in the air somewhere? With a very passive disinterest. His torso and leg armour is so boring compared to the detail of the old Macharius model.
Yeah, very disappointing. At least the Rough Riders had good horses even if felt the riders were a little static.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Yes, Leontus has a gun. It also looks like a flint lock, not something that the Imperials tend to use. You know, like a bolt pistol. Something Macharius was actively holding that you could clearly see.
His choice of pistol is reasonable. His first name is Arrrr Cadian, which makes him 500% more likely to use a flintlock than a normal Cadian.
nels1031 wrote: If he’s the precursor to new kits that share his design aesthetic, he’s pretty cool.
As a solitary dude he’s dissapointing. If his base inserts into a bigger scenic base(like FW Primarchs or Gotrek of AoS) and it has him surrounded by command staff/retainers like Glutos and Katakros of AoS, he’d much improve.
Not unless they're all on horses too.
I think I'd like him better if he was this guy from the 2nd edition IG Codex.
Never got a model but had rules. Now there is a guy who looks like he could lead the Imperium from the back of a saddle.
Kanluwen wrote: Dude's dressed as an anachronistic warmaster of olde, and he's "no more special" than a WHFB empire general...while riding a mechanical horse.
Got it.
Well...Mechanical horse is hardly 40k thing seeing it's also been in fantasy battle
So yeah. FB calling their hero back.
Only the reaver head on base is off in fantasy battle/AOS. But it's sad day when BASE has to sell the story over the model...
First impression was also a Free Guild or Free Cities mounted character. I can see hints of the old Goodwin design in the model, but I am not overly impressed or blown away by it.
Codex cover art is also a bit of a miss, I get that they want to promote the new HQ model, but it doesn't capture the essence of the Imperial Guard.
Undead_Love-Machine wrote: I can only speak for myself, but apart from giving off huge Fantasy vibes (which you don't seem to agree with!), the model is so, so different from any other Guard model that I can think of, meaning that it stands out like a sore thumb.
Edit:, yes, I'm aware that Rough Riders exist!
Just saying "Fantasy Vibes" doesn't actually mean anything though. Is it because the model is mounted on a horse that happens to be painted gold?
I think "fantasy vibes" conveys my thoughts quite nicely, but okay.
It's the entire composition of the model. Sure, the gold/horse thing plays a large part, but it's not just that. The helmet is pure fantasy, as is the sword, the entire rider looks like he belongs in AOS, even his pistol looks archaic.
As has been said before by others the robotic horse is straight out of WFB too.
Just imagine how un-40k it would look If the model was based on grass instead of the 40k scenic base (yes, regardless of the aquila!)
As I mentioned before I think that a headswap and a more traditional Guard colour scheme would make a big difference to the model, and I defo agree that the odd Servo Skull placement would help. All of these things are easy mods if people choose to.
I get that you sometimes take the stance of argumentative defender, and to be honest sometimes that's exactly what this site needs more of, but in this case IMHO you are fighting an uphill battle.
BrookM wrote: Codex cover art is also a bit of a miss, I get that they want to promote the new HQ model, but it doesn't capture the essence of the Imperial Guard.
I like the cover art, but even if I didn't I'd be forgiving of it. It's for the limited edition codex in the launch box after all, and the only thing that makes these things limited edition is the cover. I think it's best to actually have distinctive artwork for the cover if you're going to make it a selling point.
Awful model, totally off point with what it should be.
He should have attendants etc swarming all over him, feeding him data etc. Not faffing about on a bloody horse, where he would struggle to keep upto date with what is going on system wide (which is what a lord solar should be keeping an eye on).
Not to mention it looks like it is fresh out of age of sigmar. The bionics on the horse are so unremarkable and lacking grim dark that I missed them the first time.
And the face is so so so bad, looks like the helmet is apart of the head as opposed to being on it.
Togusa wrote: Warhammer Fans: This new model sucks! It's got way too many bits and bobs on it! It looks like it's from Star Craft, wtf? Woah GW, this model needs to look more generic for my conversions!
Also Warhammer Fans: This new model sucks! It's way too generic! It doesn't even look like it belongs in 40K, there are no identifying bits and bobs on it! This model needs to look more like [faction]! WTFGW?!
God you people are exhausting.
You realize there's literally a middle ground for models to fit in between those two comments, yes?
He should have attendants etc swarming all over him, feeding him data etc. Not faffing about on a bloody horse, where he would struggle to keep upto date with what is going on system wide (which is what a lord solar should be keeping an eye on).
Not to mention it looks like it is fresh out of age of sigmar. The bionics on the horse are so unremarkable and lacking grim dark that I missed them the first time.
And the face is so so so bad, looks like the helmet is apart of the head as opposed to being on it.
Hard pass.
If we still keep with the horsey, Ludwig Schwarzhelm is a far better looking proxy for this guy than the guy himself. It boggles my mind. Just swap out some weapons and remove the Sigmar bits and you have a much more 40k-looking Lord Solar.
I'm afraid I'm going to be of the "meh" faction as well. The execution is passable, but the the idea and design I find to not really work for me in the first place.
I do find it curious that the one faction that's almost always had mandatory command squads for their army-general level characters didn't get one of those "party bases" like they did for Katakros, Szarekh, and the late Saint Katherine.
They should have had him mounted a in a salamander command tank with big old vox and a bunch of staffers cramed in and then we would have a new character model that fits in the army theme, a salamander command tank and a salamander scout tank kit.
Quasistellar wrote: Huh, this just seems like a weird miss. I don't collect guard, but this doesn't fit in with the line *at all*.
Yeah. There's some interesting callbacks to the Guard art from Rogue Trader (and early 2nd), particularly the breastplate, but... that aesthetic is completely gone from the modern range.
At this point he looks like he'd fit better in an AoS Sigmarite army or the barely previewed Dawnbringer Crusade (or whatever its called).
An Attilan special character would have fit better than this. But at this point I expect random grab-bag pieces (that have no context or relationship to the product lines) from 40k releases.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: What was the name of the clockwork horse guy? He'd fit even better.
SOLARR
SOLARR
In a distant time
And far away place
The planet Terra floats deep in space
Domain of Emperor´s sons
Seat of galactic power
The Ceramite rush brought traitors, mutants & witches during humanity´s darkest hour
SOLARR
SOLARR
Then one day, a Lord Commander appeared
With powers of hawk, wolf, puma and bugbear
Protector of peace, square-jawed man from afar
Champion of justice, Lord Commander Solarr!
Solarr
SOLARR!
Eyes of the hawk, ears of the wolf
Solarr
SOLARR!
Strength of the bugbear, speed of the puma
Togusa wrote: Warhammer Fans: This new model sucks! It's got way too many bits and bobs on it! It looks like it's from Star Craft, wtf? Woah GW, this model needs to look more generic for my conversions!
Also Warhammer Fans: This new model sucks! It's way too generic! It doesn't even look like it belongs in 40K, there are no identifying bits and bobs on it! This model needs to look more like [faction]! WTFGW?!
God you people are exhausting.
You realize there's literally a middle ground for models to fit in between those two comments, yes?
You realize my point is that no one on this forum is every happy with a model and every time one gets shown off, it's treated by some segment of the forums as if someone shot their dog, where as others think it's mediocre, or a great model that they cannot wait to buy. Every. Time.
If this model had been surrounded by a retinue of jetpack horses carrying servitor advisors, cherubs and body guards and on a 100MM base, covered head-to-toe in Aquilas, Cadian iconography and skulls, some segment of this forum would have been up in arms about how it's too fixated to one regiment at the expense of all the others. They'd say the model was too busy and that [component] looks off, awful, etc. It happens every single time. This time, instead of them showing off another mess like Constantin Valdor's FW model, they showed something more streamlined, restrained and regiment agnostic...something that should be welcomed by all of the "hobby modelers on here" because it's rife for conversions and enhancements to make it fit into your army the way you would want. Seriously, some of the very people who often complain about models being too specific and too difficult to convert, are in this thread now complain that something like this is too easy to convert and not specific enough. It is complaining for the sake of complaining.
Do I want one? No, not really. I'd like to have IG, but I like tanks and artilliery and heavy weapon teams. So this model, along with the Rough Riders just isn't for me. And that's fine.
Yeah, pretty disappointed by how generic this is, especially since we finally have a Lord Solar model for the guard again and we ended up losing Yarrick for this. Somehow even the old sculpt for Macharius had a better design concept than this. I could easily see the command post style diorama base with all the data nexuses and advisors be there and if they want combat options, have a couple of souped up Ogryn Bodyguards in there for protection.
Meh. It looks like an AoS model and doesn't fit the rest of the army, but I wonder how much of that is the GW catalog paint job? Would it look better if it was done by a decent painter with a better grasp of the 40k style? We'll see in a few weeks I guess.
On the good side I'm sure various third-party alternatives will be along shortly to take the lore/rules concept and provide a more appropriate model.
Agamemnon2 wrote: I'm afraid I'm going to be of the "meh" faction as well. The execution is passable, but the the idea and design I find to not really work for me in the first place.
I do find it curious that the one faction that's almost always had mandatory command squads for their army-general level characters didn't get one of those "party bases" like they did for Katakros, Szarekh, and the late Saint Katherine.
Thankfully, they didn't. Because those party models are fething atrocious and obnoxious to use in a WARGAME.
I'll take this guy [Assuming he was mandatory] any day over those other pieces.
Aecus Decimus wrote: Meh. It looks like an AoS model and doesn't fit the rest of the army, but I wonder how much of that is the GW catalog paint job? Would it look better if it was done by a decent painter with a better grasp of the 40k style? We'll see in a few weeks I guess.
On the good side I'm sure various third-party alternatives will be along shortly to take the lore/rules concept and provide a more appropriate model.
The paintjob is definitely a big part, but even the basic design like the head just feels very...uninspiring. It certainly won't be worth the usual centerpiece character price tag that GW likes to slap on for faction leaders.
Togusa wrote: You realize my point is that no one on this forum is every happy with a model and every time one gets shown off, it's treated by some segment of the forums as if someone shot their dog, where as others think it's mediocre, or a great model that they cannot wait to buy. Every. Time.
Shocking, a diverse group of people has a diverse range of opinions from "it sucks I hate it" to "I love it and can't wait to buy it". Did you have a point here, beyond stating the obvious?
Togusa wrote: You realize my point is that no one on this forum is every happy with a model and every time one gets shown off, it's treated by some segment of the forums as if someone shot their dog, where as others think it's mediocre, or a great model that they cannot wait to buy. Every. Time.
Shocking, a diverse group of people has a diverse range of opinions from "it sucks I hate it" to "I love it and can't wait to buy it". Did you have a point here, beyond stating the obvious?
Re-read my post, there was a small part of the first paragraph that got left out which I reentered. My point specifically is that the same group of people who constantly complain about model releases which are too difficult to convert, are now in this thread complaining essentially that this model is too generic and most likely too easy to convert. Like it or don't, that's up to the individual.
Togusa wrote: Re-read my post, there was a small part of the first paragraph that got left out which I reentered. My point specifically is that the same group of people who constantly complain about model releases which are too difficult to convert, are now in this thread complaining essentially that this model is too generic and most likely too easy to convert. Like it or don't, that's up to the individual.
Is it the same group of people? Or is it group A complaining about conversion difficulty, group B complaining about it being too generic, and you generalizing both groups into "this forum" and assuming that everyone here is one monolithic group where everyone must be committed to the opinions of everyone else?
You realize my point is that no one on this forum is every happy with a model and every time one gets shown off, it's treated by some segment of the forums as if someone shot their dog, where as others think it's mediocre, or a great model that they cannot wait to buy. Every. Time.
I mean, you listed people who are enthusiastic, those who hate it and the people in the middle. Do you just want total apathy or something?
I get what they were going for with this, but if there was ever a model that deserved the mini diorama treatment in vein of Katakros or Saint Katherine, it's a Lord Solar.
Re-read my post, there was a small part of the first paragraph that got left out which I reentered. My point specifically is that the same group of people who constantly complain about model releases which are too difficult to convert, are now in this thread complaining essentially that this model is too generic and most likely too easy to convert. Like it or don't, that's up to the individual.
I'm going to have to start seeing some evidence to back up those accusations. Either put up or shut up.
His Master's Voice wrote: I get what they were going for with this, but if there was ever a model that deserved the mini diorama treatment in vein of Katakros or Saint Katherine, it's a Lord Solar.
I'm thinking they might be trying to get rid of those going forward. Kind of a shame if so.
Lord Horseyman ain't doin' nuthin' for me. There's nothing very "40k" about him.
Again I must point out that the Basilisk is still using the same sprues that it had when I was in high school, but we got new Sentinel and this Horse fella. Sure...
Kid_Kyoto wrote: What was the name of the clockwork horse guy? He'd fit even better.
SOLARR
SOLARR
In a distant time
And far away place
The planet Terra floats deep in space
Domain of Emperor´s sons
Seat of galactic power
The Ceramite rush brought traitors, mutants & witches during humanity´s darkest hour
SOLARR
SOLARR
Then one day, a Lord Commander appeared
With powers of hawk, wolf, puma and bugbear
Protector of peace, square-jawed man from afar
Champion of justice, Lord Commander Solarr!
Solarr
SOLARR!
Eyes of the hawk, ears of the wolf
Solarr
SOLARR!
Strength of the bugbear, speed of the puma
Solarr
SOLARR!
Amazing!
Thanks for this made my night!
Also, if his horse did what Bravestars horse did then that is very 40k!
He should have attendants etc swarming all over him, feeding him data etc.
Aw you're making me weep for what could have been.
Lord Solar at a command table, surrounded by mentats, officers, and some honor guard guys.
As long as he's stationary he gets strategy points and issues 4 orders and whatever.
Or you can pull them off the display base and now you have Lord Solar and a couple of badass dudes looking to kick ass (but lose the big picture benefits).
From a visual standpoint, I think I would have preferred Leontus to take after something like the Solar Auxilia more. Like this guy, who is an SA officer on foot:
Spoiler:
Plenty of historically-inspired bling, but between the comm earpieces and backpack especially, obvious technology as well. If they could have incorporated some more power-armour design cues to the horse barding and cybernetics, that might also have worked better. As it stands, the big plate pieces do give me an WHFB Empire vibe first and foremost (though the paint scheme being very bright and flashy plays a part at that as well)
Silly base aside, with the sword swapped out for a powersword or chainsword, he would be a reasonable enough Guard Commander.
Honestly, I think the biggest problem with it isn't the model itself, but the rest of the army. If we had, say, plastic Vostroyans, or if they had chosen to develop any of the other more fantasy-ish styled Guard regiments, or pushed the whole mixed regiments vibe with all different units, this guy would look right at home. But in an era when the vast majority of Guard are just made up of Cadian models (and even the new Rough Riders look more like Cadians with a headswap), this guy doesn't really feel like he fits.
Kanluwen wrote: Personal take is that between this and the return of Command Squads as just individual models? This was a wasted opportunity for Guard to get a "diorama" model.
This would have been far superior in both instances.
Completely wrong. This picture fits 'general' type model. Someone above senior regimental officers, but not so high said diorama isn't mostly lower ranking lackeys that add just minor functionality to combined model rules. Since Lord Solar doesn't muck about with even regimental commanders, but highest level officers present, his 'diorama' would need several generals leading multiple regiments each if not subsector commanders present and it would be looking comical (and utterly stupid) being pushed on table. Imagine Bolt Action command model that would be Roosevelt, Eisenhower, Bradley and Halsey standing around the desk - placed 20 cm away from Nazi Panzers. It would instantly shatter any suspension of disbelief (and would be good 2000 points mini if you wanted to give it proper rules). Realistic chain of command, what's that?
Not to mention it looks like it is fresh out of age of sigmar. The bionics on the horse are so unremarkable and lacking grim dark that I missed them the first time.
Um, no. Just no. Look at the horse, most of it is outright replaced by metal and just covered by uncanny valley, slightly off color plastic cover. There is plenty of grimdark here, it's just higher quality bionics used by high ranking officials (of which he is one of the most important) never look like crude stuff used by regular troops and the grimdark hits when you see how much had been replaced - good 2/3 of horse is missing and at this point he is riding on metal puppet incorporating some bits of the original animal for looks. Giving the horse regular visible bionics would be as dumb as giving medieval king miniature peasant clothes - completely failing to capture the status of the model.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: The colour scheme is part of the issue, but also the pose and equipment. There is nothing that really outwardly speaks "40k". He's holding a sword, but rather than being a chainword it's a fairly generic looking blade. He has a gun, but it's not a prominent feature and is not a plasma pistol, bolt pistol or even laspistol.
...why on Holy Terra highest ranking official would arm himself with gak handed out to freshly conscripted sergeants instead of, you know, relic blade and archaotech pistol befitting his status? Is that supposed to be a serious suggestion?
So far, what is comically and totally off point of this model is its criticism showing complete lack of thinking it through. This is Lord Solar, not some random regimental mook, and the mini fits it to a T, no matter if you interpret it as him posing heroically post action while others did all the work, or him being inspiring, heroic figure amid his troops laughing at enemy fire (because he has secret archeotech shield generator built into horse, but the troopers around don't know that). It's the gak quality gear, dumb dioramas fitting low ranking officer, or him wearing Cadian/other regiment uniform proposals that are so off the point they are just sad.
Does this mean the model is ideal? Nope, but it's certainly better than anything proposed here instead so far, and I am just baffled how several people think ancient WFB junk that looks nothing like 40K design somehow fits 40K army better than model that is clearly 40K and even more clearly high ranking leader of said army. Is that some new low quality 4chan bait or something?
Lord Solar is the only new guard model I don't absolutely love, or even remotely like. Stiff pose, uninspired boring design, little aesthetic cohesion with the rest of the guard range, etc.
Good first draft - now give the concept to John Blanche to grimdark it up, and then resculpt it based on how he fixes it.
Um, no. Just no. Look at the horse, most of it is outright replaced by metal and just covered by uncanny valley, slightly off color plastic cover.
I find the idea of this guy keeping around his horse and making it a super-badass cyborg horse so it can live forever and he can ride forever and stuff to be unironically wholesome.
Irbis wrote: Um, no. Just no. Look at the horse, most of it is outright replaced by metal and just covered by uncanny valley, slightly off color plastic cover. There is plenty of grimdark here, it's just higher quality bionics used by high ranking officials (of which he is one of the most important) never look like crude stuff used by regular troops and the grimdark hits when you see how much had been replaced - good 2/3 of horse is missing and at this point he is riding on metal puppet incorporating some bits of the original animal for looks. Giving the horse regular visible bionics would be as dumb as giving medieval king miniature peasant clothes - completely failing to capture the status of the model.
The problem is that the bionics are too subtle. If you don't have the lore telling you 'the horse is 2/3 machine" it's very easy to miss those details at first glance. I'll grant that GW's AoS-style paint job isn't helping but if the bionics are supposed to be a key design element they should stand out a lot more.
And a major point of 40k aesthetics is that nobody has elegant and beautiful machines. Even the best stuff is still an awkward bundle of anachronisms held together by cables and floating skulls. If you look at the highest admech leadership you don't see sleek and beautiful, you see bigger and more elaborate mazes of cables and glowing plasma bits and pistons connected to nothing. The Lord Solar is not a fantasy hero king, he's the real-world king eating rotten food and sitting on a cold throne in a room surrounded by the stench of not having indoor plumbing. And he's still happier than everyone else, because at least he's not a peasant.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: The colour scheme is part of the issue, but also the pose and equipment. There is nothing that really outwardly speaks "40k". He's holding a sword, but rather than being a chainword it's a fairly generic looking blade. He has a gun, but it's not a prominent feature and is not a plasma pistol, bolt pistol or even laspistol.
...why on Holy Terra highest ranking official would arm himself with gak handed out to freshly conscripted sergeants instead of, you know, relic blade and archaotech pistol befitting his status? Is that supposed to be a serious suggestion?
Wow, I guess that makes Solar Macharius and Yarrick absolute peasants then. I mean, simple bolt pistols? And not fancy space magic flintlocks? Absolute dregs. See, I can be a snarky too. It's not hard.
It looks ok, nothing fantastic but I like that they didn't go over the top with too many fiddly details, and I'm glad they avoided making a big dumb diorama. Hopefully this kit comes with options, so that you can say make your own mounted imperial general/lord solar/segmentum commander/what have you. If it comes with alternate weapons, like say a heavily engraved plasmagun, or a hot-shot lasgun, etc, it would be neat.
Honestly the bigger bit to me is it means that converting / making my own horsey lord is now a doable thing.
His Master's Voice wrote: I get what they were going for with this, but if there was ever a model that deserved the mini diorama treatment in vein of Katakros or Saint Katherine, it's a Lord Solar.
I'm thinking they might be trying to get rid of those going forward. Kind of a shame if so.
They don't need to do big centre piece on 1x large base models though.
They could go back to multiple models, representing Lord Solar, each on their own base. They did it for Grimaldus.
As posted above but with his full crew, this is a much better Lord Solar representation, with his support staff around, looking like he's leading rather than involved in a military parade.
I mean, how much of a swing and a miss can you make by not giving him his own huge, personal banner, with bearer to lug it around?
You might sorta salvage it by swapping the base for a pile of dead and dying Guardsmen to contrast against Mr. Fancy Pants. Like the top half looks like a propaganda poster, but then you pan down and the horse's legs are covered in blood and grime and there's guys feebly reaching up to the hero who won't even look their way. That'd be Imperial Guard, that'd be 40K, and you wouldn't need to read the background for it to be clear.
His Master's Voice wrote: I get what they were going for with this, but if there was ever a model that deserved the mini diorama treatment in vein of Katakros or Saint Katherine, it's a Lord Solar.
I'm thinking they might be trying to get rid of those going forward. Kind of a shame if so.
They don't need to do big centre piece on 1x large base models though.
They could go back to multiple models, representing Lord Solar, each on their own base. They did it for Grimaldus.
As posted above but with his full crew, this is a much better Lord Solar representation, with his support staff around, looking like he's leading rather than involved in a military parade.
I mean, how much of a swing and a miss can you make by not giving him his own huge, personal banner, with bearer to lug it around?
Doth my eyes deceive me! A command squad that isn't 4x special weapons!
His Master's Voice wrote: I get what they were going for with this, but if there was ever a model that deserved the mini diorama treatment in vein of Katakros or Saint Katherine, it's a Lord Solar.
I'm thinking they might be trying to get rid of those going forward. Kind of a shame if so.
They don't need to do big centre piece on 1x large base models though.
They could go back to multiple models, representing Lord Solar, each on their own base. They did it for Grimaldus.
As posted above but with his full crew, this is a much better Lord Solar representation, with his support staff around, looking like he's leading rather than involved in a military parade.
I mean, how much of a swing and a miss can you make by not giving him his own huge, personal banner, with bearer to lug it around?
Doth my eyes deceive me! A command squad that isn't 4x special weapons!
The model is fine, I agree it suits for the Lord solar, if it was a generic guard commander it would suck but it’s a fancy pants special character who is one of the most senior officers in the imperial guard (if not the most?-I don’t know). He should have fancy gear, even says he’s into rejuvenants and stuff.
My issue is, it’s a special character, I dislike those and have since they first turned up in the game. No way that guy is turning up in all but the biggest fights, and really he should never be anywhere near the fight.
Fabio Bile wrote: You might sorta salvage it by swapping the base for a pile of dead and dying Guardsmen to contrast against Mr. Fancy Pants. Like the top half looks like a propaganda poster, but then you pan down and the horse's legs are covered in blood and grime and there's guys feebly reaching up to the hero who won't even look their way. That'd be Imperial Guard, that'd be 40K, and you wouldn't need to read the background for it to be clear.
He should have attendants etc swarming all over him, feeding him data etc.
Aw you're making me weep for what could have been.
Lord Solar at a command table, surrounded by mentats, officers, and some honor guard guys.
As long as he's stationary he gets strategy points and issues 4 orders and whatever.
Or you can pull them off the display base and now you have Lord Solar and a couple of badass dudes looking to kick ass (but lose the big picture benefits).
Ah well.
Next edition.
Basically, this (without the table)
It captures the absolute mental bureaucracy of the imperium also. The Lord Solar actually wouldn't be able to get on a battlefield he'd have so much stuff to sign off every day.
Dislike, same reasons as most here.
It looks way more WHFB/AOS than 40K.
And what is up with the horse's legs?
The back hoof is floating, and it only has 2 feet grounded, but it is in a standing pose.
It should have been either rearing up on the back legs, or 3 on the ground. Horses don't stand like that.
Togusa wrote: You realize my point is that no one on this forum is every happy with a model and every time one gets shown off, it's treated by some segment of the forums as if someone shot their dog, where as others think it's mediocre, or a great model that they cannot wait to buy. Every. Time.
Almost as if different people had different tastes.
Fabio Bile wrote:You might sorta salvage it by swapping the base for a pile of dead and dying Guardsmen to contrast against Mr. Fancy Pants. Like the top half looks like a propaganda poster, but then you pan down and the horse's legs are covered in blood and grime and there's guys feebly reaching up to the hero who won't even look their way. That'd be Imperial Guard, that'd be 40K, and you wouldn't need to read the background for it to be clear.
That reminds me of discarded idea I had from an Only War campaign I ran years and years ago. I believe I gave the players the option of a warzone type they would be deployed in, and if they chose the planet in rebellion one I was going to have them throw dozens of characters into a kill zone just so that their commander could pose heroically on their horse for a propaganda pic.
Andykp wrote:The model is fine, I agree it suits for the Lord solar, if it was a generic guard commander it would suck but it’s a fancy pants special character who is one of the most senior officers in the imperial guard (if not the most?-I don’t know). He should have fancy gear, even says he’s into rejuvenants and stuff.
My issue is, it’s a special character, I dislike those and have since they first turned up in the game. No way that guy is turning up in all but the biggest fights, and really he should never be anywhere near the fight.
I do want his base for my ORK warboss though.
Yup, if there is a generic build and lots of options in the kit it might be really cool overall. If its a single build, no options kit, meh.
Fabio Bile wrote: You might sorta salvage it by swapping the base for a pile of dead and dying Guardsmen to contrast against Mr. Fancy Pants. Like the top half looks like a propaganda poster, but then you pan down and the horse's legs are covered in blood and grime and there's guys feebly reaching up to the hero who won't even look their way. That'd be Imperial Guard, that'd be 40K, and you wouldn't need to read the background for it to be clear.
Damn. That is some solid grimdark right there.
I approve.
Agreed. Did a similar style of base for my conversion of Andrei Malakov for Warmachine. His whole background is he is a toffee-nosed young warcaster who has come through officer school and doesn't give a crap about his troops. Which both his artworks represents perfectly, but the mini did not. Mine is (crammed onto a 30mm base somehow) stood on a mound on dead Winter Guard whilst he stands there ramrod straight (he's also based on the classic Cadian colonel mini from 2003 or so) in his pristine uniform and boots shined so shiny you can see your face in them.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Aw you're making me weep for what could have been.
Do you mean to say that GW missed another opportunity?
I find it odd that there wasn't a want, need or even a single request I've seen for a lord solar model. They plucked something totally unexpected out of an orifice and somehow managed to make it... bland at best? I actually find the old empire guy on mechanical horse more 40k looking than this guy.
Dudeface wrote: I find it odd that there wasn't a want, need or even a single request I've seen for a lord solar model. They plucked something totally unexpected out of an orifice and somehow managed to make it... bland at best? I actually find the old empire guy on mechanical horse more 40k looking than this guy.
They could have done a great new Commissar Yarrick rather than Lord Horseyman.
Instead, they removed the most iconic Guard character in 40k history from the game.
Honestly I didn't even want attendants, I wanted an imperial guard version of a living saint. When I think of Macharius, it's this image and it's what I wish this guy was like.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Aw you're making me weep for what could have been.
Do you mean to say that GW missed another opportunity?
I find it odd that there wasn't a want, need or even a single request I've seen for a lord solar model. They plucked something totally unexpected out of an orifice and somehow managed to make it... bland at best? I actually find the old empire guy on mechanical horse more 40k looking than this guy.
Hi there I am a weirdo who has absolutely requested a lord solar model lmao.
Fabio Bile wrote:You might sorta salvage it by swapping the base for a pile of dead and dying Guardsmen to contrast against Mr. Fancy Pants. Like the top half looks like a propaganda poster, but then you pan down and the horse's legs are covered in blood and grime and there's guys feebly reaching up to the hero who won't even look their way. That'd be Imperial Guard, that'd be 40K, and you wouldn't need to read the background for it to be clear.
That reminds me of discarded idea I had from an Only War campaign I ran years and years ago. I believe I gave the players the option of a warzone type they would be deployed in, and if they chose the planet in rebellion one I was going to have them throw dozens of characters into a kill zone just so that their commander could pose heroically on their horse for a propaganda pic.
Andykp wrote:The model is fine, I agree it suits for the Lord solar, if it was a generic guard commander it would suck but it’s a fancy pants special character who is one of the most senior officers in the imperial guard (if not the most?-I don’t know). He should have fancy gear, even says he’s into rejuvenants and stuff.
My issue is, it’s a special character, I dislike those and have since they first turned up in the game. No way that guy is turning up in all but the biggest fights, and really he should never be anywhere near the fight.
I do want his base for my ORK warboss though.
Yup, if there is a generic build and lots of options in the kit it might be really cool overall. If its a single build, no options kit, meh.
That’s it! Couldn’t put my finger on it, the new squat Kharl is a nice model that makes a generic leader or a special character. This guy just makes a special character that looks like nothing else in the range.
cole1114 wrote: Honestly I didn't even want attendants, I wanted an imperial guard version of a living saint. When I think of Macharius, it's this image and it's what I wish this guy was like.
Even just the same level of armour and decoration as Solar Macharius would have made a difference. The lack of thigh armour, full chest plate with collar, bracers and fur-lined cape are small changes but they make him seem less important.
H.B.M.C. wrote: This whole release is making me wonder whether it's a good idea to have the model makers be at the top of the food chain.
I don't think this is the model makers though. I have a suspicion that the sculptor made a model for AoS, then marketing came along and said "hey, we need something for the Astra Militarum. Slap some aquilas and give it a fancy base and we'll sell it as part of their range".
What is the rumor about how giving orders has changed? Someone said models deepstriking in would no longer be able to have orders given to them???
The leak (not just a rumor) is that orders are given in the command phase, which means units arriving via deep strike would not yet be on the table to receive them.
Dudeface wrote: I find it odd that there wasn't a want, need or even a single request I've seen for a lord solar model. They plucked something totally unexpected out of an orifice and somehow managed to make it... bland at best? I actually find the old empire guy on mechanical horse more 40k looking than this guy.
They could have done a great new Commissar Yarrick rather than Lord Horseyman.
Instead, they removed the most iconic Guard character in 40k history from the game.
You don't understand. It's that GW decided to give us a figure of Lord Solar Whoever posing for victory picture. Obviously it was the range missing from the IG product line.
What is the rumor about how giving orders has changed? Someone said models deepstriking in would no longer be able to have orders given to them???
The leak (not just a rumor) is that orders are given in the command phase, which means units arriving via deep strike would not yet be on the table to receive them.
There's also a workaround rumour where there is a way to give an order(s) in later phases for this exact situation
What a lame lord model. Holy moly. I think the helmet looks off as well as the weird smoothness of it all. Ah well a new character to convert rules pending.
Perfection! The polishing guy really makes it work. Wargames Exclusive?
Just add the dead and dying guardsman base someone suggested, and maybe swap the twin horse heads for the twin eagle heads from the Griffon rider and you have something.
especially command squads that actually look like they contain an officer and not the newest swiss-watch transportation system project with a parade gockel on top.
For refference, why not make something along the style of the DKoK marshall, the Solar auxilia one that was posted? Hell even the R&H command squad looks sensible compared to this monstrosity for use in an Imperial army.
scarletsquig wrote: The new elector count with runefang and clockwork horse is awesome!
Not sure about the base though, is it some skaven scrap or something?
It's the head of a Chaos frog daemon engine.
And just to say, I'm actually dead serious about this. People voiced their disbelief earlier that someone might look at the Lord Solar for the first time and mistake it for an AoS model, but the titan head does not deviate from Chaos contraptions that exist in AoS in such a way that it would look immediately out of place.
Realistically the biggest giveaway that this is not a model straight out of AoS is the concrete and steel rubble on the base. And that's pretty far down the list of details that draw attention from first time viewers.
He should have attendants etc swarming all over him, feeding him data etc.
Aw you're making me weep for what could have been.
Lord Solar at a command table, surrounded by mentats, officers, and some honor guard guys.
As long as he's stationary he gets strategy points and issues 4 orders and whatever.
Or you can pull them off the display base and now you have Lord Solar and a couple of badass dudes looking to kick ass (but lose the big picture benefits).
Ah well.
Next edition.
Basically, this (without the table)
It captures the absolute mental bureaucracy of the imperium also. The Lord Solar actually wouldn't be able to get on a battlefield he'd have so much stuff to sign off every day.
Glad they didn’t go with the “make it a command squad with more bling on” route but something like this would have been awesome. I don’t like special characters but would have got a diorama piece like this just to paint up. Not seen that picture before, it would’ve been great.
I love the addition of the Polishing Servitor in the photoshopped picture, it makes the awkward pose into just that, a pose struck before recording some propaganda video for the troops.
You know, Lord Solar just sitting on a biomechanical horse while a line scribes and advisors and whatnot would akwardly try to show him some reports with few bodyguards around would had been very approriate.
Edit: And of course servitor polishing his horse. So cool.
Looking at the retouched images; I think my initial impression of the lord solar was a lot to do with the very low overall contrast in the colour scheme. The black panelling on the armour in particular is great but I figure any strong contrast would enhance the look a lot. A nice imperial purple for example. Lean into the whole “noble officer” bit.
And a baton instead of the sword… I mean he’s a general not a berserker. If he has to personally kill things, someone screwed up.
But also the polishing server off of High Marshal Helbrecht’s retinue is a really nice touch.
It's interesting, usually discussion follows an inverted bell curve, models that are really good or really bad get discussion while the ones that are average are sort of ignored.
Like the new shock troops didn't get much discussion because honestly what's there to say. They're Cadians, they're improved, not much to add.
But the new Lord Solar, who is not a bad model, is getting a ton of discussion. I think it's because he's just average when he was supposed to be exceptional. GW has put out some truly wonderful over the top IG officers over time (my vote is for the Vostroyan officer with the eagle talon bionic leg) and of course the 3rd edition Lord Solar Macharus was just a case study in absurdity.
So this Lord Solar is isn't bad in the traditional sense, just an enormous let-down.
Other than the head (face looks squished in, I feel it should be more recessed into the skid lid) I don’t think it’s a bad model as such.
It just….doesn’t fit in with 40K, let alone the more down to Earth aesthetic of the Imperial Guard.
Perhaps a darker paint palette might soften my opinion. But for now? It still looks much too Age of Sigmar for 40K. Like someone’s tried a conversion and not quite hit the grimdark mark. And given 40K is all about carefully planned design language in its ranges, it’s pretty disappointing.
In fact…this reminds me of certain Transformers from the dim and distant when before they cartoon, there was just relatively random procurement of distribution rights for various Japanese Robot toys. Whilst the cars and jets all tied in quite nicely, regardless of relative size, the likes of Skyfire/Jetfire stood out as oddities, because they came from entirely different lines (Macross I think? I know there’s a fair risk I’ll get crucified here for getting it wrong!).
That’s what this guy feels like. As if someone is trying to ape 40K, and has bought the rights to a random model to stand in as a Supreme Commander.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Like someone’s tried a conversion and not quite hit the grimdark mark.
My theory is that this is exactly what happened: the designer just tried a lot of AoS assets in CAD that felt "Lord Solar-y" and when they assembled the model they just called it a day without any further thought. I doubt they had a concrete idea at any point of the design, just an asset library that basically made the model by itself.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Like someone’s tried a conversion and not quite hit the grimdark mark.
My theory is that this is exactly what happened: the designer just tried a lot of AoS assets in CAD that felt "Lord Solar-y" and when they assembled the model they just called it a day without any further thought. I doubt they had a concrete idea at any point of the design, just an asset library that basically made the model by itself.
Not sure I agree with that. Still withholding overall until I’ve seen darker paint jobs once it’s out in the wild.
I'm going to weigh in as a No vote on Fancy Horse Man. While I understand the rationale for the model and paint job, being a supreme commander unfettered by the uniform requirements of a single regiment or even world, it's still a jarring look. As noted by others, the prior Lord Solar (a model that aged pretty fast, TBH) had at least the bolt pistol to tie him into 40k.
I think this is a model that broadly fails all three aspects of what makes me want a model: background, design, and execution. While a new lord solar is kind of cool, and it's neat to have a supreme commander, a completely new cavalry commander sucks when there are legacy characters with a lot of love. The design is oddly bland, pulling inspiration from Rogue Trader era cavalry but not otherwise really showing off it's 40k-ness. Finally, the actual execution of the model is pretty weak, with a static pose, lumpy face, and overly subtle bionics.
So basically, the idea is weak, the work is weak, and it's not what we wanted. Of course i'll buy one, because I think with a head swap and a paint scheme to match my Praetorians it'll look better, if not good.
The last IG model to get this treatment was the Taurox, and honestly, I've kind of warmed up to it. It was just such an oddly designed little bastard, with terrible details like exhaut pipes running into the cabin, terrible proportions, the dumb quad treads, and some odd motifs meant to match the Scions. It also, crucially, wasn't what we wanted! We wanted a jeep, a small, 5-6 person light transport that could scoot around command squads or SWSs. We did not want a delivery van on split treads.
cole1114 wrote: Honestly I didn't even want attendants, I wanted an imperial guard version of a living saint. When I think of Macharius, it's this image and it's what I wish this guy was like.
Considering Macharius eventually WAS Sainted, there's a reason that art was done to evoke that thought.
Polonius wrote: So basically, the idea is weak, the work is weak, and it's not what we wanted. Of course i'll buy one, because I think with a head swap and a paint scheme to match my Praetorians it'll look better, if not good.
...but, if you think the idea is weak and the work is weak, if it's not what you wanted and a head swap and a different paint scheme won't make it look good, just better... why are you "of course" buying one?
I can't understand this answer, it's not like there's a dearth of good alternatives, if you want them.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Other than the head (face looks squished in, I feel it should be more recessed into the skid lid) I don’t think it’s a bad model as such.
It just….doesn’t fit in with 40K, let alone the more down to Earth aesthetic of the Imperial Guard.
Perhaps a darker paint palette might soften my opinion. But for now? It still looks much too Age of Sigmar for 40K. Like someone’s tried a conversion and not quite hit the grimdark mark. And given 40K is all about carefully planned design language in its ranges, it’s pretty disappointing.
In fact…this reminds me of certain Transformers from the dim and distant when before they cartoon, there was just relatively random procurement of distribution rights for various Japanese Robot toys. Whilst the cars and jets all tied in quite nicely, regardless of relative size, the likes of Skyfire/Jetfire stood out as oddities, because they came from entirely different lines (Macross I think? I know there’s a fair risk I’ll get crucified here for getting it wrong!).
That’s what this guy feels like. As if someone is trying to ape 40K, and has bought the rights to a random model to stand in as a Supreme Commander.
Does the Lord Solar Macharius miniature feel more 40k/suitable to you than this guy? I've seen people say he's alright because he's similar to Macharius, but to me the differences and way he's been done do make him feel even more fantasy, especially the lack of immediately apart 40k stuff is more noticeable.
Polonius wrote: So basically, the idea is weak, the work is weak, and it's not what we wanted. Of course i'll buy one, because I think with a head swap and a paint scheme to match my Praetorians it'll look better, if not good.
...but, if you think the idea is weak and the work is weak, if it's not what you wanted and a head swap and a different paint scheme won't make it look good, just better... why are you "of course" buying one?
I can't understand this answer, it's not like there's a dearth of good alternatives, if you want them.
I don't care much for proxies or third party stuff for complete models. No shade on those that do, but it's not my cup of tea, as even GW's weaker efforts are still solid. If a really good looking third party model comes out, I might buy one, especially if it'll look good with my army.
But I'm a complete whale when it comes to IG. I probably own one of every vehicle kit for IG made post-rogue trader, and I have models for every datasheet in the codex expect the superheavies. so, yeah, I'm going to buy it because it's a new IG model and I buy new IG models. And maybe like the Taurox I'll learn to love it, or I'll discover that with a head swap and a different paint job I like.
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Mentlegen324 wrote: Does the Lord Solar Macharius miniature feel more 40k/suitable to you than this guy? I've seen people say he's alright because he's similar to Macharius, but to me the differences and way he's been done do make him feel even more fantasy, especially the lack of immediately apart 40k stuff is more noticeable.
That old Macharius model is... not good. I've owned it twice, and never really gotten it painted in a way I like. It always ended up being the basis for a better Inquisitor than an IG character.
Part of it is simply the fact that it's silly to include a theater commander in a game of company level combat. Every other faction does the same thing, so I guess IG get sucked into it, but there's a reason they settled on Yarrik and Creed as the "faces" of IG: one is a legendary hero who leads from the front, the other while a master tactician is at least an organic part of the Cadian structure we see.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Other than the head (face looks squished in, I feel it should be more recessed into the skid lid) I don’t think it’s a bad model as such.
It just….doesn’t fit in with 40K, let alone the more down to Earth aesthetic of the Imperial Guard.
Perhaps a darker paint palette might soften my opinion. But for now? It still looks much too Age of Sigmar for 40K. Like someone’s tried a conversion and not quite hit the grimdark mark. And given 40K is all about carefully planned design language in its ranges, it’s pretty disappointing.
In fact…this reminds me of certain Transformers from the dim and distant when before they cartoon, there was just relatively random procurement of distribution rights for various Japanese Robot toys. Whilst the cars and jets all tied in quite nicely, regardless of relative size, the likes of Skyfire/Jetfire stood out as oddities, because they came from entirely different lines (Macross I think? I know there’s a fair risk I’ll get crucified here for getting it wrong!).
That’s what this guy feels like. As if someone is trying to ape 40K, and has bought the rights to a random model to stand in as a Supreme Commander.
Does the Lord Solar Macharius miniature feel more 40k/suitable to you than this guy? I've seen people say he's alright because he's similar to Macharius, but to me the differences and way he's been done do make him feel even more fantasy, especially the lack of immediately apart 40k stuff is more noticeable.
Never really been a fan of the Macharius model myself. But, I will say even if just because of the Bolt Pistol, it’s at least instantly recognisable as a 40K model.
Part of it is simply the fact that it's silly to include a theater commander in a game of company level combat.
I actually like the idea that planning is viewed as overrated and every commander thinks it is grit and overkill that wins battles so if they want to win they should join the battle personally to show the grit and do the overkill themselves. It has the kind of troll logic I miss from 40k.
Part of it is simply the fact that it's silly to include a theater commander in a game of company level combat.
I actually like the idea that planning is viewed as overrated and every commander thinks it is grit and overkill that wins battles so if they want to win they should join the battle personally to show the grit and do the overkill themselves. It has the kind of troll logic I miss from 40k.
Well... to be fair... every other army operates that way. Sisters, Marines, Chaos, Orks, Necrons, Tau, Ynarri, and Admech all have models and rules for the people that are literally the heads of the faction, both politically and militarily. Really only Eldar and Nids avoid that, but even craftworld Eldar has an aspect of their war god that can drop on the table top, Dark Eldar and Nids/cults are really the only factions that avoid that goofiness, and even Dark Eldar used to have rules for Vect!
What is the rumor about how giving orders has changed? Someone said models deepstriking in would no longer be able to have orders given to them???
The leak (not just a rumor) is that orders are given in the command phase, which means units arriving via deep strike would not yet be on the table to receive them.
There's also a workaround rumour where there is a way to give an order(s) in later phases for this exact situation
So far the workarounds I have seen are disembarking transports and ordering out of Chimeras. Have not seen any leaks for out of phase stratagems to allow ordering after deep strike arrival (and locking orders behind stratagems would not be a viable solution really).
One of the things that's very against type is that GW created a model that's so easy to proxy. I mean, it's literally a dude on a horse waving a sword. Call me paranoid, but I think some of the reasons we've been seeing GW play around with mechs and enormous sizes and other things is to make centerpiece models that are really tough to proxy.
There was a real missed opportunity to include Mogul Kamir bits in the Rough Rider box. It'd be no different than including Nork Deaddog parts in every Ogryn box.
Think of how many Rough Rider boxes they could sell if there was a special character available to make them count as "Troops" in a mounted army.
There was a real missed opportunity to include Mogul Kamir bits in the Rough Rider box. It'd be no different than including Nork Deaddog parts in every Ogryn box.
Think of how many Rough Rider boxes they could sell if there was a special character available to make them count as "Troops" in a mounted army.
That's smart. I would want a lot more horse bling though, I guess GW needed the sprue space for more important stuff like a big rock
One of the things that's very against type is that GW created a model that's so easy to proxy. I mean, it's literally a dude on a horse waving a sword. Call me paranoid, but I think some of the reasons we've been seeing GW play around with mechs and enormous sizes and other things is to make centerpiece models that are really tough to proxy.
A tough to substitute centerpiece model is fine. Afterall, I'll be saving plenty by finding alt models for most of the army that surrounds them.... And this guy-on-horse? He's in no way a centerpiece model for the Guard.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Like someone’s tried a conversion and not quite hit the grimdark mark.
My theory is that this is exactly what happened: the designer just tried a lot of AoS assets in CAD that felt "Lord Solar-y" and when they assembled the model they just called it a day without any further thought. I doubt they had a concrete idea at any point of the design, just an asset library that basically made the model by itself.
As someone else posted earlier “that’s not how it works”. It’s not miniature Dall-E.
I have no doubt that the Lord Solar's appearance is deliberate and a nod toward the Horus Heresy series. Being a top dude at the center of Imperial power, I believe the idea is that he would be positioned to have both reason and means to have a more refined appearance in accordance with what was fashionable before the Imperiums fall into darkness. Thus the de-grimdarkening on the model and why it looks so out of place for a 40k model. It isn't meant to look like it belongs in 40k.
I really don't get why people are coming up with ideas of it being an AOS model originally or having been purposefully toned down or whatever when it's clearly just meant to be a newer version of Solar Macharius' armour that just happened to have a few changes for the worse.
So, with combat patrols being 'roughly' 25 power level, in addition then looking at certain combat patrol boxes, such as GSC and sisters in regards to how many models are in the set.
I think the army box set will actually be the combat patrol
It's bound to be mostly the combat patrol, but I think it could in full, or with the field ordinance battery removed and a chimera or other tank added.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Other than the head (face looks squished in, I feel it should be more recessed into the skid lid) I don’t think it’s a bad model as such.
It just….doesn’t fit in with 40K, let alone the more down to Earth aesthetic of the Imperial Guard.
Perhaps a darker paint palette might soften my opinion. But for now? It still looks much too Age of Sigmar for 40K. Like someone’s tried a conversion and not quite hit the grimdark mark. And given 40K is all about carefully planned design language in its ranges, it’s pretty disappointing.
In fact…this reminds me of certain Transformers from the dim and distant when before they cartoon, there was just relatively random procurement of distribution rights for various Japanese Robot toys. Whilst the cars and jets all tied in quite nicely, regardless of relative size, the likes of Skyfire/Jetfire stood out as oddities, because they came from entirely different lines (Macross I think? I know there’s a fair risk I’ll get crucified here for getting it wrong!).
That’s what this guy feels like. As if someone is trying to ape 40K, and has bought the rights to a random model to stand in as a Supreme Commander.
Does the Lord Solar Macharius miniature feel more 40k/suitable to you than this guy? I've seen people say he's alright because he's similar to Macharius, but to me the differences and way he's been done do make him feel even more fantasy, especially the lack of immediately apart 40k stuff is more noticeable.
Never really been a fan of the Macharius model myself. But, I will say even if just because of the Bolt Pistol, it’s at least instantly recognisable as a 40K model.
I remember that mancharius maidel coming out and it’s was a bit of a clash style wise as well.
I imagine that if you have a praetorian army it could be made to work.
I might hold off on the army box set if that is the case then. I'll get the combat patrol and a codex via other means, save myself some money unless the army box set is £105 ($170).
Bound to be £120 though.
I also think there's potential for it to have a Castellan instead of a command squad (command squad would be better though).
Hmm good to know. I had planned to buy 2x army box but it looks as though I can just get an army box and a combat patrol instead (though not much different since the codex in the army box likely works out as being free).
Have we got a codex leak yet? Supposedly review copies got sent out and there are rumours that someone is planning on leaking the thing in a couple of days. They are waiting on the next few waves to be sent out to make it less obvious who they are.
I don't know if I'd trust OK_E there, or perhaps the translation. They've seen a set in the books, often it's the combat patrol like with genestealers, could also be army starter set.
I'd be very surprised to see the release army set and combat patrol being the same.
Tastyfish wrote: I don't know if I'd trust OK_E there, or perhaps the translation. They've seen a set in the books, often it's the combat patrol like with genestealers, could also be army starter set.
I'd be very surprised to see the release army set and combat patrol being the same.
I'm more suspicious of the complete usability of what would be 2x the army set. With the combat patrols they seem to include something that you wouldn't want to duplicate, thus reducing the value in buying more than one. Though admittedly some of them it is just as little as single commander, the Guard Army box just seems too convenient for someone wanting an infantry heavy army. Depends on how the leaked "platoon" keyword gets used, but you'd get a platoon of infantry per box, with some non points or FOC slot intensive support. In fact even going to three CPs would get you 1x Regt Comd Squad, 2x Platoon Comd Squads, 6x Infantry squads, 3x sentinels, and 2x 3 Field guns.
On the Lord Solar alternatives, I'm talking myself into a Comd Squad based around the Elucidian Starstriders. Use the definitely absolutely not Captain Keyes as the Comd, then then two lasgun blokes as well, lasgun blokes. You've got a medic and a heavy / special weapon stand in, and finally take the lasgun guy firing his pistol and convert the left hand to be holding a banner. Their dress is sufficiently non standard / ornate to say important, and while not tied to any particular guard regt, still says Imperium of Man. Possibly also see if I can get a couple of the Navy Breachers as Kasrkin / Scion stand ins for additional "Household troops" for the Lord Solar.
Mentlegen324 wrote: I really don't get why people are coming up with ideas of it being an AOS model originally or having been purposefully toned down or whatever when it's clearly just meant to be a newer version of Solar Macharius' armour that just happened to have a few changes for the worse.
Primarily, its the barding on the horse. That wrap around style is on a lot of the stormcast lizard and dragon mounts, and obviously the gold breastplate with generic halos and skulls has been beaten to death in AoS, while for the Guard, the vestiges of that particular style departed the model range last century. The riding gloves and pale blue uniform are very Napoleonic, which is far closer to AoS (or even old WFB empire) than 40k. The billowing red cloak is just a wtf-shoot-me moment on the battlefield.
He just doesn't fit the existing OR updated model range, and I'd be hard pressed to think of a worse way to use an Imperial Guard command character than put him on a horse and expect him to personally stab eldritch monstrosities. The entire design philosophy of the faction and the game is out to lunch. It isn't, to me, literally a toned down AoS model. Its just that everything about the model fits that game better than this one. While there have been a lot of 'that might as well happen' models in 40k lately, this one doesn't get that much of a shrug. It really just should have been passed over in the design phase.
Just because it's a "horde" army doesn't mean they can't have ANY impressive stand-out heroes. This guy is supposed to be the the top of the entire IG heap, naturally he's got all the best toys to make him a super-human. Whilst still being nothing at all compared to actual elite army heroes/characters.
"BuT mUh rEaLiSm" hello yes you are playing Warhammer 40,000. Space George Washington leading from the front makes just as much sense as any other special character in a 2000 point game leading a handful of soldiers. It's even consistent within the setting and faction, why would Creed or Yarrick be in the thick of things either?
RustyNumber wrote: Just because it's a "horde" army doesn't mean they can't have ANY impressive stand-out heroes. This guy is supposed to be the the top of the entire IG heap, naturally he's got all the best toys to make him a super-human. Whilst still being nothing at all compared to actual elite army heroes/characters.
"BuT mUh rEaLiSm" hello yes you are playing Warhammer 40,000. Space George Washington leading from the front makes just as much sense as any other special character in a 2000 point game leading a handful of soldiers. It's even consistent within the setting and faction, why would Creed or Yarrick be in the thick of things either?
It isn't even a "muh realism" thing that makes this mini something I don't enjoy... it just doesn't fit. At all. With Daemon Primarchs, Bobby G, or other named characters for the various factions/Chapters/ect, they have design elements that link them to what they are leading while still being unique.
A human with a sword doesn't bother me in 40k, and I am not bothered at all by Rough Riders, or the silliness of a bayonet in 40k. I just wish there was a few more design elements to tie this mini into the new Cadians while still keeping that aloof and distant look.
Boosykes wrote: Cool I'm glad you like him. I don't. I likes my guard to be normal dudes against the horror of 40k.
I feel the same way, so have never used a named special character in any game. It's not "my guys" if a named SC is there with them. Some people like SCs, some don't.
Issues people have with the aesthetics, well I understand that. I have to say it would make more sense and more of a "complete" unit if the guy could take an elite cavalry bodyguard of 4 models or something with similar aesthetics, rather than one dude on horse amongst tanks and footsloggers.
Boosykes wrote: Cool I'm glad you like him. I don't. I likes my guard to be normal dudes against the horror of 40k.
I feel the same way, so have never used a named special character in any game. It's not "my guys" if a named SC is there with them. Some people like SCs, some don't.
Issues people have with the aesthetics, well I understand that. I have to say it would make more sense and more of a "complete" unit if the guy could take an elite cavalry bodyguard of 4 models or something with similar aesthetics, rather than one dude on horse amongst tanks and footsloggers.
I think I dislike the face sculpt on the Lord Solar most, he looks like he's unsure and thinking "How did I wind up here? Maybe if I hold my sword up something epic will happen." I also think the paint scheme is unappealing to me. Horse head is to round and chubby, legs are too smooth and boring. The faux shinguards don't make sense to me, just make the base plating of the front of the legs the armor rather than bolting more armor on. As I look at the model in detail I see a lot of bit's I like, but I would have painted them more grimdark instead of something that looks like it just jumped off a carosel ride.
As I think back that was probably my first reaction, a merry go round horse. I also don't like the barding. Way too thick and blocky, or at least I don't like the front shape. Then there's the issue that most guard units don't loom like this, except scions maybe and crusaders (presuming they aren't gone in new codex).
Head swap, totaly different paint scheme, and some other customizations, I could maybe find a way to like it, but the picture it looks like a model from an Army other than guard unless you had made a romanesque guard army already.
I have to admit this variant made me chuckle, and the version with Severina is cool as well. I'd definately customize the daylights out of this if I got one.
I may pick up at least 2 of the lord solar so I can scavenge that base. A wrecked chaos reaver head is amazing to use for basing a Knight or Imperial Titan
Can I ask what the rationale is behind buying two expensive kits (where you don't seem to want the actual unit) in an age where 3D prints are ubiquitous, and very affordable even if you have to commission the print. (That being said, a 5 minute search has only turned up a free file of a wrecked imperial knight base piece, nothing chaos specific.)
RustyNumber wrote: Just because it's a "horde" army doesn't mean they can't have ANY impressive stand-out heroes. This guy is supposed to be the the top of the entire IG heap, naturally he's got all the best toys to make him a super-human. Whilst still being nothing at all compared to actual elite army heroes/characters.
"BuT mUh rEaLiSm" hello yes you are playing Warhammer 40,000. Space George Washington leading from the front makes just as much sense as any other special character in a 2000 point game leading a handful of soldiers. It's even consistent within the setting and faction, why would Creed or Yarrick be in the thick of things either?
We could argue that in a universe of shape-shifting assassins, teleporters, drop pods, and dimensional rifts that there is no such thing as a front line or a safe rear line for commanders. They have to be ready to jump up and grab a sword at any moment as the webway porthole/daemonic summoning/mechanical drills let the enemy strike right in the heart of HQ.
(Heck in the real world, guerilla wars since the Chinese Civil War and Vietnam have almost obliterated the notion of a front line)
Which does not make Lord Solar Horsey Rider a good model, but just says that there's no sane ground for saying he'd never be in battle.
Voss wrote: The entire design philosophy of the faction and the game is out to lunch.
To be entirely honest here I do feel like that design philosophy is undergoing a change, at least as far as the faction is concerned: we are getting a kind of "Primaris Guard" with this new Aspect Warrior unit setup but where Primaris Marines initially tried to touch into tacticool, the Primaris Guard is trying to bring back the RT-era weirdness with a super-heavy WW2 (/Western Allies) tone for the historical crowd. In that regard, the Lord Solar is kind of fitting.
RustyNumber wrote: Can I ask what the rationale is behind buying two expensive kits (where you don't seem to want the actual unit) in an age where 3D prints are ubiquitous, and very affordable even if you have to commission the print. (That being said, a 5 minute search has only turned up a free file of a wrecked imperial knight base piece, nothing chaos specific.)
Two because I want a Lord Solar for my guard, and the second to scavenge for parts. I do like the model, have the money, so choose to buy it rather than a knockoff. My 3D printer time and interest is generally for AT terrain and Fallout WW. I expect that this thought process will make me into a "consoomer" as far as some people here go but meh.
I'm also hoping for a complete plastic titan if they are going to tease parts like this.
RustyNumber wrote: Can I ask what the rationale is behind buying two expensive kits (where you don't seem to want the actual unit) in an age where 3D prints are ubiquitous, and very affordable even if you have to commission the print. (That being said, a 5 minute search has only turned up a free file of a wrecked imperial knight base piece, nothing chaos specific.)
Because some people want the actual kit, not someone else's interpretation or a "knock off" of the kit.
It's why I make the distinction between the kit, a recast, and a 3D print.
The actual kit is like the Mona Lisa. It's the genuine article.
A recast is like a print of the Mona Lisa. It's not the original, but it's still the Mona Lisa.
A 3D print is someone drawing their own version of the Mona Lisa. It might be close - very close in fact - but it's never going to be the real thing, or even a recast of the real thing.
Unless it's a full proper 3D scan, but then really that's just a recast via alternate steps.
Boosykes wrote: This is a good point guard use numbers. Large numbers of disposable infantry and the big guns. Wtf am I gona do with a human on a horse with a sword.
I'm sure they will give him good stats but he just dosent fit in. If I want a tough bruiser in the guard I will use ogrin or tanks.
They are suposed to be regular dudes not horse riding zues throwing thunderbolts.
Don't get me wrong I like the idea of regular huma ns on mutant horses DKok style just not superhuman in the guard. That's realy not there style.
Coolest part of the guard is that they are regular dudes not super humans.
But this isn’t a regular due, he’s the top of the guard, the head honcho. He is going going to be super because he’s the leader of a billion sting army. If you like gritty every day dudes as guard, then what ever this model liked like he wouldn’t be your cup of tea.
Don’t get me wrong here, I’m not keen on this model, I like my guard same as you, which is why I don’t like special characters, especially in the guard.
I kind of get what they were going for here, especial with the fluff snippets, he’s the flamboyant quirky supreme leader. He stands out on purpose. So the horse and the sword and the colour choices make sense in that way, he’s like the British paratrooper officer with the sword on Normandy beach. But it’s not for me. With a good special character model I get the urge to buy the model just to build and paint it, it is so magnificent, like with ghaz, but if never play it. Not this one.
I can totally get behind a supreme commander of the guard never acually seing battle first hand, and imagine himself riding a horse and commanding the troops with his sword held high.
Question is what the heck he would do on an actual battlefield. Probably the whole thing is a holgram projection of a guy safely tucked away on a holodeck in space drinking tea.
Why do I have the feeling that vehicles such as the Leman Russ and Chimera will eventually be phased out?
Baseless paranoia?
Fayric wrote: I can totally get behind a supreme commander of the guard never acually seing battle first hand, and imagine himself riding a horse and commanding the troops with his sword held high.
Question is what the heck he would do on an actual battlefield. Probably the whole thing is a holgram projection of a guy safely tucked away on a holodeck in space drinking tea.
That's not very 40k though. This guy leads the "drive me closer to I can hit them with my sword" faction, of course he's going to be on the battlefield in some ridiculously impractical manner. I'm just surprised he's not in a robot suit or leman russ.
Polonius wrote: I think they'll more likely keep the new Cadians, but slot in a legacy vehicle like the LRBT to get it up to 25 Power.
It'll be nice to have an HQ in these boxes besides the commissar.
Why do I have the feeling that vehicles such as the Leman Russ and Chimera will eventually be phased out?
So first it was firstborn gets squatted, now it's IG?
Guess next it's falcons get squatted Then tyranid warriors etc?
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Fayric wrote: I can totally get behind a supreme commander of the guard never acually seing battle first hand, and imagine himself riding a horse and commanding the troops with his sword held high.
Question is what the heck he would do on an actual battlefield. Probably the whole thing is a holgram projection of a guy safely tucked away on a holodeck in space drinking tea.
That would be RL logic GW logic the bigger the rank the more he fights.
Polonius wrote: I think they'll more likely keep the new Cadians, but slot in a legacy vehicle like the LRBT to get it up to 25 Power.
It'll be nice to have an HQ in these boxes besides the commissar.
Why do I have the feeling that vehicles such as the Leman Russ and Chimera will eventually be phased out?
If this is concern that the old vehicles have glorious edges instead of this new curvy heresy, Imperial Guard wouldn't be the first army to keep models on sale that are to a greater or (in this case very much) lesser extent outdated. Chaos Marine tanks still have an upgrade sprue from a time before the invention of time, and Noise Marines use upgrade bits made for the previous Chaos Marine sculpts that may or may not be compatible with the current models. And Guard itself still has those Catachans that were bad even at the time of release.
The Guard tanks got recut sprues only somewhat recently. They're about as safe as it gets.
Voss wrote: The entire design philosophy of the faction and the game is out to lunch.
To be entirely honest here I do feel like that design philosophy is undergoing a change, at least as far as the faction is concerned: we are getting a kind of "Primaris Guard" with this new Aspect Warrior unit setup but where Primaris Marines initially tried to touch into tacticool, the Primaris Guard is trying to bring back the RT-era weirdness with a super-heavy WW2 (/Western Allies) tone for the historical crowd. In that regard, the Lord Solar is kind of fitting.
Well, that would be fine, but he doesn't fit the new guard design either. That's the weirdest part. He looks about 100 years too early to match the WW2 style tank.
Like her or not, the Ursula Creed model does- she has matching design cues.
But this guy looks like he stepped out of the Guard regimental art from 1990, or fits in with these guys:
Yup. That's the RT-era weirdness I'm talking about. Now, one can argue that combining it with the WW2 aesthetic (Cadians, Rogal Dorn) does not make a comprehensive faction design despite shared design cues (clothing style, thick straps, smooth round surfaces), but GW apparently has a different idea.
I think the concept is fine, but the execution is aesthetically poor. Needs to be surrounded by servo skulls IMO (one with vox, one holding display screens of tactical info, one scribbling orders on a big scroll of paper, and a 4th with a gun or shield generator), maybe add a bionic eye and shoulder-mounted laud hailer, change the shape of the helmet crest to a more-typically imperial iron halo style, give the horse a tracheostomy rebreather and pistons on the legs to make the cybernetics a touch more obvious. Add power-blade studs to the sword, and go for a more Militarum style of blade like a basket-hilted sabre (this looks like a Sororitas weapon), and I think the model would look greatly improved. A mask on the helmet like roman cavalry would also have looked good, esp with a bionic eye and rebreather tubing feeding into it. Could add digital weapons and a tactical feed to one wrist too. He should look like he is leading a massive army group at the same time as leading glorious charges, but we only have the latter.
Voss wrote: The entire design philosophy of the faction and the game is out to lunch.
To be entirely honest here I do feel like that design philosophy is undergoing a change, at least as far as the faction is concerned: we are getting a kind of "Primaris Guard" with this new Aspect Warrior unit setup but where Primaris Marines initially tried to touch into tacticool, the Primaris Guard is trying to bring back the RT-era weirdness with a super-heavy WW2 (/Western Allies) tone for the historical crowd. In that regard, the Lord Solar is kind of fitting.
Well, that would be fine, but he doesn't fit the new guard design either. That's the weirdest part. He looks about 100 years too early to match the WW2 style tank.
Like her or not, the Ursula Creed model does- she has matching design cues.
There is a distinct possibility we will see a modernised version of those Rogue Trader guardsmen for Necromunda, which would make a good bodyguard for the Lord Solar.
Makes me think GW should have used the sprue budget they wasted on the Sentinel to make a squad of Guardsmen that resembles those old ones so you can have a few squads as personal elite guard to the Lord Solar. The rules writers seem to have had a similar idea with him making Scions Troops (if that's accurate, been I while since I read the rumors), but they don't really have the same style as him and and a new kit would have been by far the better choice.
Fayric wrote: I can totally get behind a supreme commander of the guard never acually seing battle first hand, and imagine himself riding a horse and commanding the troops with his sword held high.
Question is what the heck he would do on an actual battlefield. Probably the whole thing is a holgram projection of a guy safely tucked away on a holodeck in space drinking tea.
That's not very 40k though. This guy leads the "drive me closer to I can hit them with my sword" faction, of course he's going to be on the battlefield in some ridiculously impractical manner. I'm just surprised he's not in a robot suit or leman russ.
Eh, I don't know. I think there would be something appropriately 40k about the supreme commander appearing on the battlefield and walking amongst his men as an angelic figure to inspire them to fight harder and to win at any cost . . . only for the entire thing to be nothing more than a projection.
To me at least, it would be rather grimdark for men to fight to grizzly deaths for a commander they believe is a living saint. They might even give their lives to protect him directly, throwing themselves in front of projectiles or atop grenades, knowing how important his life is and cherishing the fact that their commander has put his own life at risk to fight with them. And yet all the while the actual commander sits in the fortified bridge of a command ship, in orbit around an entirely different planet, while his men give their lives to protect an illusion.
I dislike the Dorn more now. There seems to be a gap behind the sponsons, which means no gunner sat in there? The turret is too tall in comparison to the other two which makes it feel like it's not wide enough.
Huh. Somehow not the statlines I was expecting. Anyone care to count how many of the 9th edition weapons mathematically won't notice the difference between T8 w/ 13 wounds and T9 with 17 wounds?
Anything at S10+ and an average damage of 6 treats those two tanks exactly the same (barring other special rules).
And of course, S5-7 is just a matter of pumping a few more shots in. Only 2 successes for damage 2 weapons.
Dudeface wrote: I dislike the Dorn more now. There seems to be a gap behind the sponsons, which means no gunner sat in there? The turret is too tall in comparison to the other two which makes it feel like it's not wide enough.
Some of that height comes from the gun shield. It protrudes over the turret top.
Voss wrote: Huh. Somehow not the statlines I was expecting. Anyone care to count how many of the 9th edition weapons mathematically won't notice the difference between T8 w/ 13 wounds and T9 with 17 wounds?
Anything at S10+ and an average damage of 6 treats those two tanks exactly the same (barring other special rules).
And of course, S5-7 is just a matter of pumping a few more shots in. Only 2 successes for damage 2 weapons.
Lascannons, Meltas and Missile Launchers (and their Xenos equivalents), Valkyrie Missiles, Basilisk-Earthshakers... the list goes on and on will all feel the difference... So basically most Infantry and a lot of vehicle based anti tank?
I'm not aware of that many weapons with average 6 damage.
Spreelock wrote: I think that gap is a some sort of emblem or insignia, in front of the sponsons.
Look at the side-on view. Its the rounded bumpy bit at the front of the track unit that is painted off-white. The front-on view makes it look like part of the sponson, but I don't think it is.
I think the sponsons are less high, and a bit less long than even the Russ sponsons, so in my head, they wouldn't be directly operated by crew in the sponson. someone inside the hull leaning through the track-line? maybe, but my headcanon will have them as remotely operated, even if there are separate crew members inside the hull controlling them.
Voss wrote: Huh. Somehow not the statlines I was expecting. Anyone care to count how many of the 9th edition weapons mathematically won't notice the difference between T8 w/ 13 wounds and T9 with 17 wounds?
Anything at S10+ and an average damage of 6 treats those two tanks exactly the same (barring other special rules).
And of course, S5-7 is just a matter of pumping a few more shots in. Only 2 successes for damage 2 weapons.
Lascannons, Meltas and Missile Launchers (and their Xenos equivalents), Valkyrie Missiles, Basilisk-Earthshakers... the list goes on and on will all feel the difference... So basically most Infantry and a lot of vehicle based anti tank?
Yeah, all old imperial and chaos kit, that meltas aside, didn't get updated in 9th. Weird that.
I'm not aware of that many weapons with average 6 damage.
d6+2 (5.5) is basically the baseline damage profile for heavier weapons this edition, with a fair few things above that.
Baneblade sponsons are remotely operated by the third gunner, though they use auto-tracking, not that far-fetched that the Praetorian sponsons use a similar system.
I like the tank.. without sponsons it is no wider then a leman russ with sponsons which makes it much easier to maneuver then I thought..
It’s a beefed up leman russ which itself is beefed up.. but it all depends on points and any special rules to see how good the tank will be..
Regardless it’s good and fits in thematically..
Now the lord solar guy he really needed a chariot and command squad.. honestly the gold and white paint scheme just doesn’t do it for me. I would have preferred a mechanical platform (tank, chariot, hover base)
with the option to upgrade with individual retinue models (astropath, officer of fleet, master of ordinance, crusader bodyguards).
.
