It seems to be a nice comfy land raider sized vehicle which the guard definitely had room for rather than a superfluous new airplane or something.
Is it confirmed to be a new design in the lore yet or another one of those things that have always been around that nobody mentioned before?
I still want my 3 way Thunderbolt/Lightning/Avenger kit
As for the tank, the posters they put out call it a new tank, so maybe Cawl strikes again? He banged it out over a weekend while researching new ER names for Primarius.
BrookM wrote: Not sure if already mentioned, but the new Cadians come with gasmask heads / pieces as well.
This makes me massively more interested in the new Cadians. Hopefully it has enough to equip the whole squad with them, and hopefully they match the Kasrkin respirators visually.
Unfortunately, the image from the Rogal Dorn article is too low res to pick out the details on the respirators.
BrookM wrote: Not sure if already mentioned, but the new Cadians come with gasmask heads / pieces as well.
This makes me massively more interested in the new Cadians. Hopefully it has enough to equip the whole squad with them, and hopefully they match the Kasrkin respirators visually.
Unfortunately, the image from the Rogal Dorn article is too low res to pick out the details on the respirators.
I really don't understand why they cannot preview the options properly.
cole1114 wrote: Doubt they will, but it'd be nice if they had enough gas masks to be armageddon.
Gas masks alone don't make them into Steel Legion...
Indeed.
Good for me though, I am building my Cadians to be from one of the regiments fighting on Armageddon alongside my Steel Legion, so respirators are a must.
Slightly better picture, maybe?
Thanks. They look reasonable at first glance, but jury is still out till I see more angles.
I'm really hoping that the rough rider horses don't only come with the hoods and caparisons. I just want a standard horse.....
Hopefully I'll be able to convert them for a reasonable price, but gw does not have many suitable "standard" horses aside from the lotr range and the empire outriders. Chances are likely that i can use the rider, but this may be very expensive, or I'll have to go third party and pay 1/3rd of the price.
I don't dislike the Dorn at all. However to me this seems like an excellent excuse to replace the hull heavy stubbers on my Macharius. It is a far better looking tank. It also normally gets sub par rules. Given the Dorn is the new hotness I expect its rules will not be too bad. They both appear to be about the same size.
I am not sure if it was mentioned here, but the Shadowvault Karskin Sergeant can be given a Hellgun in Kill Team, and the assembly instructions also include an alternative build suggestion where he uses the full size weapon. Wonder if that will translate in the full size game.
Sledgehammer wrote: I'm really hoping that the rough rider horses don't only come with the hoods and caparisons. I just want a standard horse.....
Hopefully I'll be able to convert them for a reasonable price, but gw does not have many suitable "standard" horses aside from the lotr range and the empire outriders. Chances are likely that i can use the rider, but this may be very expensive, or I'll have to go third party and pay 1/3rd of the price.
Following the Halfling Sniper Kickstarter, Victoria Miniatures will be moving on to not-Rough Riders next.
Voss wrote: Huh. Somehow not the statlines I was expecting. Anyone care to count how many of the 9th edition weapons mathematically won't notice the difference between T8 w/ 13 wounds and T9 with 17 wounds?
Anything at S10+ and an average damage of 6 treats those two tanks exactly the same (barring other special rules).
And of course, S5-7 is just a matter of pumping a few more shots in. Only 2 successes for damage 2 weapons.
S
So basically super at weapon's don't much care which target? Sounds about right.
Sledgehammer wrote: I'm really hoping that the rough rider horses don't only come with the hoods and caparisons. I just want a standard horse.....
Hopefully I'll be able to convert them for a reasonable price, but gw does not have many suitable "standard" horses aside from the lotr range and the empire outriders. Chances are likely that i can use the rider, but this may be very expensive, or I'll have to go third party and pay 1/3rd of the price.
Following the Halfling Sniper Kickstarter, Victoria Miniatures will be moving on to not-Rough Riders next.
Could be worth a wait.
Oh, I already plan to use some of victoria's bits as is (the slouch hats), but if I want to ever go to an offical event or gw store with them, I'd be gak out of luck. With me potentially moving to dfw and being within spitting distance of the cafe, that would suck.
Voss wrote: The entire design philosophy of the faction and the game is out to lunch.
To be entirely honest here I do feel like that design philosophy is undergoing a change, at least as far as the faction is concerned: we are getting a kind of "Primaris Guard" with this new Aspect Warrior unit setup but where Primaris Marines initially tried to touch into tacticool, the Primaris Guard is trying to bring back the RT-era weirdness with a super-heavy WW2 (/Western Allies) tone for the historical crowd. In that regard, the Lord Solar is kind of fitting.
Well, that would be fine, but he doesn't fit the new guard design either. That's the weirdest part. He looks about 100 years too early to match the WW2 style tank.
Like her or not, the Ursula Creed model does- she has matching design cues.
Why are you obsessed with him not matching the Cadians style wise? He's NOT a Cadian. Just like he's not a Catachan, a Krieg, a Tallarn, Scion, etc. The old Solar on foot wasn't any of those things either.
I must be one of the few people that doesn't mind the horse dude I'm not gonna buy him, but I don't hate him.
The Rogal Dorn actually is smaller than I was expecting. The turret guns are less comically proportioned which made it seem bigger than it is versus other IG tanks, and the rivets seem small.
H.B.M.C. wrote: The new Cadian helmets seems less stupid than the current ones. More helmet-y and less Spaceballs.
I don't want any new Cadians, but I wonder if they'll work on current Cadians? I'm not above ripping off those heads to put new ones on.
Eh, I dunno... they feel quite small, more like caps or old style helmets without any padding, just flush on the head, than anything more current.
I agree in relation to real life, but GW helmets have always been balaclava tight, there is no way a SM helmet would fit on any of the helmetless heads. So in that regard the new Cadians look more in line with the rest of the range.
H.B.M.C. wrote: The new Cadian helmets seems less stupid than the current ones. More helmet-y and less Spaceballs.
I don't want any new Cadians, but I wonder if they'll work on current Cadians? I'm not above ripping off those heads to put new ones on.
A common feature of Primaris kits in particular is a massive superfluity of extra heads, a trend I'm hoping will continue to the new Guard. I already know from experience that the old Cadians take headswaps passing well.
Voss wrote: The entire design philosophy of the faction and the game is out to lunch.
To be entirely honest here I do feel like that design philosophy is undergoing a change, at least as far as the faction is concerned: we are getting a kind of "Primaris Guard" with this new Aspect Warrior unit setup but where Primaris Marines initially tried to touch into tacticool, the Primaris Guard is trying to bring back the RT-era weirdness with a super-heavy WW2 (/Western Allies) tone for the historical crowd. In that regard, the Lord Solar is kind of fitting.
Well, that would be fine, but he doesn't fit the new guard design either. That's the weirdest part. He looks about 100 years too early to match the WW2 style tank.
Like her or not, the Ursula Creed model does- she has matching design cues.
Why are you obsessed with him not matching the Cadians style wise? He's NOT a Cadian. Just like he's not a Catachan, a Krieg, a Tallarn, Scion, etc. The old Solar on foot wasn't any of those things either.
I'm not particularly obsessed (3-4 posts in a discussion, I think so far? Madness ), and Cadians aren't the issue. The fact that he's not _anything_ and doesn't match the current range is a design flaw, however. The old Solar on foot did match the range at the time- a lot of the officers were in gold breastplates and over-wrought.
The thing about armies is they tend to be uniform. Strange and foreign concept, I know. If it a model doesn't fit, the whole thing looks bad. A Napoleonic cavalry officer cosplaying as a Sigmarite while standing a horse on a pile of trash is simply a baffling choice. It takes far more from the army than it adds.
Voss wrote: The entire design philosophy of the faction and the game is out to lunch.
To be entirely honest here I do feel like that design philosophy is undergoing a change, at least as far as the faction is concerned: we are getting a kind of "Primaris Guard" with this new Aspect Warrior unit setup but where Primaris Marines initially tried to touch into tacticool, the Primaris Guard is trying to bring back the RT-era weirdness with a super-heavy WW2 (/Western Allies) tone for the historical crowd. In that regard, the Lord Solar is kind of fitting.
Well, that would be fine, but he doesn't fit the new guard design either. That's the weirdest part. He looks about 100 years too early to match the WW2 style tank.
Like her or not, the Ursula Creed model does- she has matching design cues.
Why are you obsessed with him not matching the Cadians style wise? He's NOT a Cadian. Just like he's not a Catachan, a Krieg, a Tallarn, Scion, etc. The old Solar on foot wasn't any of those things either.
I'm not particularly obsessed (3-4 posts in a discussion, I think so far? Madness ), and Cadians aren't the issue. The fact that he's not _anything_ and doesn't match the current range is a design flaw, however. The old Solar on foot did match the range at the time- a lot of the officers were in gold breastplates and over-wrought.
The thing about armies is they tend to be uniform. Strange and foreign concept, I know. If it a model doesn't fit, the whole thing looks bad. A Napoleonic cavalry officer cosplaying as a Sigmarite while standing a horse on a pile of trash is simply a baffling choice. It takes far more from the army than it adds.
It isn't just his uniform, there are loads of odd design choices in the details. Like his sword- basically every official Guard model with a sword has been armed with a backsword or sabre. Twin-edged weapons are exceedingly rare (I can't think of one off the top of my head that was not a conversion), but they are common for Astartes and Sororitas models to carry. So it makes this character look more like an Ecclesiarchy model rather than a Guard one. Such a small change that makes a difference. I think the pistol is less important because archeotech space-flintlocks has been a thing for 40k characters for awhile, but it adds to the jarring non-Guard weaponry.
Voss wrote: The thing about armies is they tend to be uniform.
I don't think that is supposed to be a thing in the Imperial Gu... I mean, Astra Militarium. It is not supposed to look uniform because it is not an actual army but an umbrella organization for a great patchwork of different armies that in turn might have their own uniform looks but there is no faction-wide uniformization other than some weapons and vehicles. In that regard, a Napoleonic general leading WW2 USMC troopers is fitting for the faction and lore because they are from different armies. I think there is even a fluff blurb about it in the codex.
Voss wrote: The thing about armies is they tend to be uniform.
I don't think that is supposed to be a thing in the Imperial Gu... I mean, Astra Militarium. It is not supposed to look uniform because it is not an actual army but an umbrella organization for a great patchwork of different armies that in turn might have their own uniform looks but there is no faction-wide uniformization other than some weapons and vehicles. In that regard, a Napoleonic general leading WW2 USMC troopers is fitting for the faction and lore because they are from different armies. I think there is even a fluff blurb about it in the codex.
I... don't care? It still looks naff on the table, regardless of 'fluff blurbs.'
And the fluff of the Munitorium is that they don't care (to the point that cold-weather specialists and gear are sent to tropical planets and warzones) and over time a regiment would look uniform regardless of disparate origins.
Voss wrote: The thing about armies is they tend to be uniform.
I don't think that is supposed to be a thing in the Imperial Gu... I mean, Astra Militarium. It is not supposed to look uniform because it is not an actual army but an umbrella organization for a great patchwork of different armies that in turn might have their own uniform looks but there is no faction-wide uniformization other than some weapons and vehicles. In that regard, a Napoleonic general leading WW2 USMC troopers is fitting for the faction and lore because they are from different armies. I think there is even a fluff blurb about it in the codex.
Except that since 3rd Ed, GW has pushed the idea of on the table Guard armies being all from a single regiment to get away from the disorganized mass that was the 2nd Ed idea of every squad/platoon from a different specialist regiment. That this book is trying to move BACK to that paint factory explosion is a bit odd and visually grating for people who want their Guard to be their regiment.
Rihgu wrote: Could you simply just not take the specialized regimental units?
Similarly to if you don't want to run Special Characters, you just don't run Special Characters.
Or just run whatever regimental models you actually have as the specialists. Cadian Shock Troopers datasheet would work really well as a traditional mech infantry unit (Armageddon), DKoK kitted out with flamers and bayonets are easily playable as Catachan Jungle Fighters.
Agreed, but the mental book keeping when it comes to special abilities / traits could get confusing for opponents if you have one model type representing different squads. Not that 40k mental book keeping isn't awful enough as it is.
Rihgu wrote: Could you simply just not take the specialized regimental units?
Similarly to if you don't want to run Special Characters, you just don't run Special Characters.
Or just run whatever regimental models you actually have as the specialists. Cadian Shock Troopers datasheet would work really well as a traditional mech infantry unit (Armageddon), DKoK kitted out with flamers and bayonets are easily playable as Catachan Jungle Fighters.
Yes.
That is the approach I would take. Replace/convert the models for specialised units so that they fit the theme of the overall force. It would bug me if nobody except Attilans had rough riders, nobody except Cadians had shock troops or Kasrkin-style veterans etc. (however they split it up in the new codex). The resulting rag-tag look of a small force of maybe 50 people where every squad came from a different part of the galaxy would annoy me too.
RegularGuy wrote: OMG, I just realized they are almkst using a variation of the "vine-o-flague" I've came up with for my tanks!
Probably conicidence, but nice to see
I'm getting more MERDEC vibes from their alternate paint job, personally.
Well, I already have thought on the proxies. Poxwalkers as Dkok, catachans as catachans (have already two kits), cadian-like miniatures as Cst, and if I need more men and women then cultists as regular infantry squad.
I know, these are all very savage proxies, but I wouldn't be very surprised if more Guard players do something remotely similar to have all the "regiments"
Voss wrote: The thing about armies is they tend to be uniform.
I don't think that is supposed to be a thing in the Imperial Gu... I mean, Astra Militarium. It is not supposed to look uniform because it is not an actual army but an umbrella organization for a great patchwork of different armies that in turn might have their own uniform looks but there is no faction-wide uniformization other than some weapons and vehicles. In that regard, a Napoleonic general leading WW2 USMC troopers is fitting for the faction and lore because they are from different armies. I think there is even a fluff blurb about it in the codex.
Except that since 3rd Ed, GW has pushed the idea of on the table Guard armies being all from a single regiment to get away from the disorganized mass that was the 2nd Ed idea of every squad/platoon from a different specialist regiment. That this book is trying to move BACK to that paint factory explosion is a bit odd and visually grating for people who want their Guard to be their regiment.
It has now become my life's work to now get that fabulous model to print on my 3D printer.
I still want a Rogal Dorn tank too, though.
Here's a shameless plug of my traitor guard blog that has one of these monsters in it, second one coming really soon as it's allready painted.
Takes for-frigging-ever to print though, these boys are massive.
I agree in relation to real life, but GW helmets have always been balaclava tight, there is no way a SM helmet would fit on any of the helmetless heads. So in that regard the new Cadians look more in line with the rest of the range.
It's about preserving the proportions. Star Wars Storm Troopers (who have to be played by real actors in real suits) look like bobble heads because the full face helmet has to be huge to accommodate the head.
But for miniatures, animation or video games you can have incredible TARDIS helmets that fit over the head like a ski mask.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: So, with combat patrols being 'roughly' 25 power level, in addition then looking at certain combat patrol boxes, such as GSC and sisters in regards to how many models are in the set.
Spoiler:
I think the army box set will actually be the combat patrol
It's bound to be mostly the combat patrol, but I think it could in full, or with the field ordinance battery removed and a chimera or other tank added.
If Votann is any indication, the combat patrol will be the box minus one unit of guardsmen and either they drop the sentinel or swap of the command squad for another HQ model.
Kanluwen wrote: I'm holding out hope that it will include Kasrkin or a Heavy Squad in lieu of the second squad
99% chance that there isn't a second squad at all. Just like how the Votann CP is 10 Hearthkyn but the launch box was 20.
Rihgu wrote: Could you simply just not take the specialized regimental units?
Similarly to if you don't want to run Special Characters, you just don't run Special Characters.
Or just run whatever regimental models you actually have as the specialists. Cadian Shock Troopers datasheet would work really well as a traditional mech infantry unit (Armageddon), DKoK kitted out with flamers and bayonets are easily playable as Catachan Jungle Fighters.
Yes.
That is the approach I would take. Replace/convert the models for specialised units so that they fit the theme of the overall force. It would bug me if nobody except Attilans had rough riders, nobody except Cadians had shock troops or Kasrkin-style veterans etc. (however they split it up in the new codex). The resulting rag-tag look of a small force of maybe 50 people where every squad came from a different part of the galaxy would annoy me too.
I'm actually embracing the approach of multi-regiment units for my guard... I have my 327th Krieg for my main bulk, which is effectively my main and favourite regiments. That does not stop me liking other regiments though, and I don't need to have multiple similar guard armies with the aesthetics being the only difference. So my Krieg are one of the regiments that happened to be in the Armageddon system now lore wise, and in such a messy, gargantuan war, it is inevitable they would cross paths or be on joint operations with other regiments.
This now means I am adding in a squad of savlar chem dogs (catachan), maybe some Ork hunters for fun, a steel legion squad with chimera and already painted up armoured sentinels (as Krieg wouldn't usually have sentinels).... It just opens up some fun modelling and painting chances without them being a bit of a faux par of having a mismatched force like it would have been from 3rd edition onwards.
I'm sure it would have smoothed a lot of ruffled feathers if they had merely given each regiment generic names, instead of fluff names. Shock troops, deathworld troops, jump troops etc etc
RustyNumber wrote: I'm sure it would have smoothed a lot of ruffled feathers if they had merely given each regiment generic names, instead of fluff names. Shock troops, deathworld troops, jump troops etc etc
RustyNumber wrote: I'm sure it would have smoothed a lot of ruffled feathers if they had merely given each regiment generic names, instead of fluff names. Shock troops, deathworld troops, jump troops etc etc
Do Guard need Aspect Warriors?
If they can make 16 different kinds of chaos cultist for Warcry, they can make like 3 more base regiment troop boxes for Astra Militarum in 40k...
drbored wrote: If they can make 16 different kinds of chaos cultist for Warcry, they can make like 3 more base regiment troop boxes for Astra Militarum in 40k...
That... doesn't track with any real logic.
Warcry is a game about gangs. They're all difference forces because you pick and play one of them at a time. How does that suddenly create a need/excuse/justification for Imperial Guard Aspect Warriors?
Yeah, Warcry in AoS is more like if they included the different Necromunda gangs as specific units in the Guard book.
Guard just need a single vet unit with special ability choices to represent all these new units. The better example is that there aren't 5 flavors of Chosen to the base Chaos Warriors.
Platuan4th wrote: Guard just need a single vet unit with special ability choices to represent all these new units. The better example is that there aren't 5 flavors of Chosen to the base Chaos Warriors.
Exactly.
If we translated this into Marines, you'd be playing Marines but could take Deathwing Knights, Thunderwolf Cavalry, Sanguinary Guard or Sword Brethren as standard choices.
Platuan4th wrote: Guard just need a single vet unit with special ability choices to represent all these new units. The better example is that there aren't 5 flavors of Chosen to the base Chaos Warriors.
Exactly.
If we translated this into Marines, you'd be playing Marines but could take Deathwing Knights, Thunderwolf Cavalry, Sanguinary Guard or Sword Brethren as standard choices.
To be fair those should be generic choices for Marines to begin with. What you're suggesting is mixing Chapter rules in the same detachment, which would be silly.
Why? Not all Marines are the same. Why should the specialists from different Chapters be "generic choices" for Marines?
Because Blood Angels and their Successors are clearly not the only Chapters of the 1000 of them to go "Hey let's use Honor Guard on Jump Packs", or somehow only Black Templars figured out how to stick a Multi-Melta on a floating tank. Making items generic is good, like the Land Raider Crusader being available to any Marine army instead of just Black Templar.
The artifical difference is to sell more codices and nothing less. Out of anyone on this forum, I didn't think you'd fall for that marketing trap. The line of thinking has eventually went into separate codices for no reason (three of the God specific Legions, Harlequins getting a specific codex in 8th, etc.) and overkill on Bespoke rules (AKA if it's a kit it gets different rules), whereas one codex should cover a main army.
Also they made Sword Brethren available to everyone anyway. They're called Vanguard Vets and they're pretty cool.
EviscerationPlague wrote: The artifical difference is to sell more codices and nothing less. Out of anyone on this forum, I didn't think you'd fall for that marketing trap.
1. I don't think the difference is artificial. Differences between factions is good. 2. I don't think it's a marketing trap. I don't think they want their factions to be entirely homogenised. 3. Actual marketing traps - like the separation of Daemons from CSM - are obvious to spot.
Specific details - like MMs on Primaris vehicles - are just the (un)natural result of linear design ethos. BTs get MMs on their floaty tanks because the model team made a specific sprue for them and did it after the tanks were already made for everyone else. If it were a generic sprue, come the next book they'd all get it, but it's not, so either they never get it, or a new sprue gets made for Marines and the cost of all their floaty tanks goes up by 10%.
Lots of strawmanning going on there, but you have quite a lot of it wrong.
Veteren assaults squads pre-date sword brethren. Veteren assault squads had their name changed to vanguard vets, that is all, and at some point after that the options expanded even further in terms of upgrades of weapons.
Sword brethren didn't show up until the 4th edition black templar codex (they are not in codex armageddon - veteran assault squads are in the blood angel codex supplement though) Sword brethren were just the black templars name for veterans, terminator squads were also called sword brethren.
So no, sword brethren were not the archetype for vanguard vets. Space marine veteran (including the precursors to sternguard and vanguard squads) and terminator squads were the archetype for sword brethren. And yes, space marine veteran squads are pretty cool. Interestingly enough, veteran assault squads were locked to blood angels from 2nd edition until 4th/5th edition when they entered the main marine codex (this could be when the name changed to vanguard vets also).
Please don't make up or skew the facts or history of the game to bash GW and people that consume its products. Theres actually plenty of legitimate reasons you could do that, there's no need to make things up.
Just as a last point, certain marine chapters have had their own codex, and their own specific history of specialised squads since second edition. Tradition in the game holds as big a spot for this, rather than it being a marketing trap to make more money.
RustyNumber wrote:I'm sure it would have smoothed a lot of ruffled feathers if they had merely given each regiment generic names, instead of fluff names. Shock troops, deathworld troops, jump troops etc etc
I'd agree. On the 'Guard Aspect Warriors' idea, I don't think that's a fair equivalent – the distinctions are very minor, and more akin to (say) the different load-outs of heavy weapon squads, or the distinction between ork Sluggas and Shootas than the more fundamental differences in stats, equipment and game role between different Aspect Warriors.
A naming scheme that didn't mention particular Regiments/Worlds would have achieved the same result – greater variety and granularity in the troops choice – without implying that (say) only Catachans ever think of taking two flamers or booby traps. The colour text could then say that (say) Catachans and Drookians and Hunirs take 'X' troop type almost exclusively. You'd have something like 'pioneers' or 'sappers' or 'combat engineers' or whatever for the ability to have an extra special weapon in place of a heavy weapon etc.
I think the main reason GW didn't take that route is simply commercial – there's no disjunct between 'Cadian' in the army list entry and 'Cadian' written on the box; whereas it requires more engagement to understand that the boxes labelled a box labelled 'Catachan Jungle Fighters', 'Death Korps of Krieg' or 'Cadian Shock Troops' can all be infantry/pioneers/combat engineers etc. That's a real consideration if your key demographic is 12–14 year olds and their parents.
+++
Either way, I'm glad that there will still be options and variety in the Troops section of the Codex, particularly if we're losing Conscripts and Veterans – and I would point out that both of those removed troops choices are exactly the sort of generic terms suggested above...
+++
On a related note, I think it's all a bit hypothetical anyway, given the familiarity and history of the Imperial Guard as a converter-friendly army choice. If you like a hotch-potch look, with Catachans, Cadians and Attilans all in the same force, more power to you. If you prefer a more uniform look, I don't for a second think anyone is going to object to kitbashed or converted (say) Cadian Rough Riders in the same way they would (say) Dark Reapers with power swords and banshee masks.
RustyNumber wrote:I'm sure it would have smoothed a lot of ruffled feathers if they had merely given each regiment generic names, instead of fluff names. Shock troops, deathworld troops, jump troops etc etc
I'd agree. On the 'Guard Aspect Warriors' idea, I don't think that's a fair equivalent – the distinctions are very minor, and more akin to (say) the different load-outs of heavy weapon squads, or the distinction between ork Sluggas and Shootas than the more fundamental differences in stats, equipment and game role between different Aspect Warriors.
A naming scheme that didn't mention particular Regiments/Worlds would have achieved the same result – greater variety and granularity in the troops choice – without implying that (say) only Catachans ever think of taking two flamers or booby traps. The colour text could then say that (say) Catachans and Drookians and Hunirs take 'X' troop type almost exclusively. You'd have something like 'pioneers' or 'sappers' or 'combat engineers' or whatever for the ability to have an extra special weapon in place of a heavy weapon etc.
I think the main reason GW didn't take that route is simply commercial – there's no disjunct between 'Cadian' in the army list entry and 'Cadian' written on the box; whereas it requires more engagement to understand that the boxes labelled a box labelled 'Catachan Jungle Fighters', 'Death Korps of Krieg' or 'Cadian Shock Troops' can all be infantry/pioneers/combat engineers etc. That's a real consideration if your key demographic is 12–14 year olds and their parents.
+++
Either way, I'm glad that there will still be options and variety in the Troops section of the Codex, particularly if we're losing Conscripts and Veterans – and I would point out that both of those removed troops choices are exactly the sort of generic terms suggested above...
+++
On a related note, I think it's all a bit hypothetical anyway, given the familiarity and history of the Imperial Guard as a converter-friendly army choice. If you like a hotch-potch look, with Catachans, Cadians and Attilans all in the same force, more power to you. If you prefer a more uniform look, I don't for a second think anyone is going to object to kitbashed or converted (say) Cadian Rough Riders in the same way they would (say) Dark Reapers with power swords and banshee masks.
I'm with you on this one, it's just a unit name, paint and model them how they like to match your army or be diverse as needed.
I'm still annoyed that we get our first guardsman with demo charge in what? 20+ years? In plastic to boot, and they remove special weapon squads (yes, I know the demo charge had already gone).
Always liked the idea of a combat engineer squad moving up to place a demo charge.
Missed opportunity to make a cool special weapon squad kit with some nice options to build them as combat engineers or recon troopers. There have been flavourful rules for special weapon squads before, like the D99 sniper squads with the spotter scopes increasing the sniper rifles to 60" range. Have a kit with 6 bodies, 3 of each special weapon, a demo charge, spotter scopes, camo cloaks, and some other equipment to beef up other weapon options for the lasgun guardsmen to carry.
But we got a new plastic sentinel to replace the great existing plastic sentinel I guess.
Though some sort of enshrinement for Yarrick would be cool.
And I'm all for IG aspect warriors - specialist loadouts like a jump pack unit (Eagles?), melta squads (Talons?), exosuits (???), snipers (Shadows?) and such.
His Master's Voice wrote: So did Yarrick manage the impossible feat of "Commissar dying of old age"?
What a legend.
So who wants to put money on whether we'll see Dreadnought Yarrick, Yarrick Jr. or a legion of Yarrick clones?
Ok, so here's what I was musing on the other day.
What if they release Yarrick but he's a baneblade upgrade sprue? It gives you all the ornamentation to create Yarrick's favorite ride, with Yarrick posed at the top. But he's kind of fused to it now, with all these wires and medical equipment keeping him alive. That way we get an old yarrick, who is still alive, and is lore friendly (since he has his own tank), but isn't a dying old man slogging it out on the ground
Stormonu wrote: Aren't dreadnoughts reserved for Space Marines?.
Nope, that’s Land Raiders.
Dreadnoughts have been used by baseline humans before, but usually the most elite ultra-wealthy because not only do you have to know the technology exists, you have to buy one then convince two tech-priests that their time is best spent interring you.
Space Marines are the only ones to do it on the regular because they are also the only group to have all the relevant equipment and expertise in one place.
Also, for a normal human this isn’t something you can do while mortally wounded and barely hanging on like a Marine; you have to be functioning and mostly uninjured or you will almost definitely die before they can get the first plugs installed…
So, they actually did kill off Yarrick? Off screen? That is beyond lame. That should have been handled in a full BL novel. He's way too much of an important character to just be written off in a single page in a codex.
Gadzilla666 wrote: So, they actually did kill off Yarrick? Off screen? That is beyond lame. That should have been handled in a full BL novel. He's way too much of an important character to just be written off in a single page in a codex.
Gadzilla666 wrote: So, they actually did kill off Yarrick? Off screen? That is beyond lame. That should have been handled in a full BL novel. He's way too much of an important character to just be written off in a single page in a codex.
Not that I know of but the reports are he's out of the 2022 Codex, and well his fluff for the last 200 years had been old man too stubborn to die.
EviscerationPlague wrote: The artifical difference is to sell more codices and nothing less. Out of anyone on this forum, I didn't think you'd fall for that marketing trap.
1. I don't think the difference is artificial. Differences between factions is good.
2. I don't think it's a marketing trap. I don't think they want their factions to be entirely homogenised.
3. Actual marketing traps - like the separation of Daemons from CSM - are obvious to spot.
Specific details - like MMs on Primaris vehicles - are just the (un)natural result of linear design ethos. BTs get MMs on their floaty tanks because the model team made a specific sprue for them and did it after the tanks were already made for everyone else. If it were a generic sprue, come the next book they'd all get it, but it's not, so either they never get it, or a new sprue gets made for Marines and the cost of all their floaty tanks goes up by 10%.
1. Differences between factions is good. It's not a faction if you share 95% of your units, it's a ploy to sell more codices or supplements
2. Consolidation is good when the primary difference between a faction is one gets crazy Marines and the other gets wolfy Marines. End the nonsense.
3. Soooooo somehow Daemons and CSM being separated is a marketing trap but buying a different Marine codex to use a few different models is not? Yeah, that's not how it works.
Also it doesn't matter WHAT your excuse for Black Templar is. The point is just their floaty tanks have it, and it's an artificial difference that shouldn't be there. However, it is, and it's a ploy to sell more books and create very artificial differences, like Blood Angels only having Heavy Flamers in their Tactical Squads instead of Salamanders, or the fact Blood Angels didn't have the Stormtalon for the longest time under the assumption that, for whatever reason, Blood and NONE of their Successors ever had it at any time.
At some point you need to start questioning and not just go "but tradition". Traditionally GW didn't even do market research.
His Master's Voice wrote: So did Yarrick manage the impossible feat of "Commissar dying of old age"?
What a legend.
So who wants to put money on whether we'll see Dreadnought Yarrick, Yarrick Jr. or a legion of Yarrick clones?
Ok, so here's what I was musing on the other day.
What if they release Yarrick but he's a baneblade upgrade sprue? It gives you all the ornamentation to create Yarrick's favorite ride, with Yarrick posed at the top. But he's kind of fused to it now, with all these wires and medical equipment keeping him alive. That way we get an old yarrick, who is still alive, and is lore friendly (since he has his own tank), but isn't a dying old man slogging it out on the ground
This would be great.
To be fair, Yarrick would almost certainly qualify for rejuvenat treatment and this keeps humans healthy and active into their 4th century of life, at least. His age is still within the bounds of plausible for high-ranking Imperial officials.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Lots of strawmanning going on there, but you have quite a lot of it wrong.
Veteren assaults squads pre-date sword brethren. Veteren assault squads had their name changed to vanguard vets, that is all, and at some point after that the options expanded even further in terms of upgrades of weapons.
Sword brethren didn't show up until the 4th edition black templar codex (they are not in codex armageddon - veteran assault squads are in the blood angel codex supplement though) Sword brethren were just the black templars name for veterans, terminator squads were also called sword brethren.
So no, sword brethren were not the archetype for vanguard vets. Space marine veteran (including the precursors to sternguard and vanguard squads) and terminator squads were the archetype for sword brethren. And yes, space marine veteran squads are pretty cool. Interestingly enough, veteran assault squads were locked to blood angels from 2nd edition until 4th/5th edition when they entered the main marine codex (this could be when the name changed to vanguard vets also).
Please don't make up or skew the facts or history of the game to bash GW and people that consume its products. Theres actually plenty of legitimate reasons you could do that, there's no need to make things up.
Just as a last point, certain marine chapters have had their own codex, and their own specific history of specialised squads since second edition. Tradition in the game holds as big a spot for this, rather than it being a marketing trap to make more money.
And yet a bunch of Black Templar players were mad that Sword Brethren weren't around, despite the fact there was almost no differences to Vanguard. You're more proving my point, thanks.
Also nobody should care about tradition, because that holds back game design and better writing. Traditionally the game has been IGOUGO, and that's incredibly outdated for a wargame isn't it? It's also tradition that you and your opponent should roll off to settle a rules disagreement. Traditions are something to question, not blindly follow.
Stormonu wrote: Aren't dreadnoughts reserved for Space Marines?.
Nope, that’s Land Raiders.
Dreadnoughts have been used by baseline humans before, but usually the most elite ultra-wealthy because not only do you have to know the technology exists, you have to buy one then convince two tech-priests that their time is best spent interring you.
Space Marines are the only ones to do it on the regular because they are also the only group to have all the relevant equipment and expertise in one place.
Also, for a normal human this isn’t something you can do while mortally wounded and barely hanging on like a Marine; you have to be functioning and mostly uninjured or you will almost definitely die before they can get the first plugs installed…
Going from the Old Man of Armageddon to the Old Kan of Armageddon would be pretty funny. The orks would approve
Garrac wrote: I really thought that if Yarrick died, it would have been in an event like Arks of Omen.
I fully expect a short lore story in the new edition about yarrick dying on armeggedon while fighting off Angron…
I’m glad ghaz didn’t kill yarrik… ghaz had the opportunity before and let yarrik live because ghaz said yarrik was the only human worth fighting… he respected yarrik…
Angron is all but confirmed to be returning and lore wise he’s obsessed with ulnor (armeggedon) so just like bastonne I expect to read about yarricks last stand.. to be fair yarrick is ancient by human standards he was old even when he arrived to armeggedon during the second war… and we are about to get into the 4th war now.
His Master's Voice wrote: So did Yarrick manage the impossible feat of "Commissar dying of old age"?
What a legend.
So who wants to put money on whether we'll see Dreadnought Yarrick, Yarrick Jr. or a legion of Yarrick clones?
Ok, so here's what I was musing on the other day.
What if they release Yarrick but he's a baneblade upgrade sprue? It gives you all the ornamentation to create Yarrick's favorite ride, with Yarrick posed at the top. But he's kind of fused to it now, with all these wires and medical equipment keeping him alive. That way we get an old yarrick, who is still alive, and is lore friendly (since he has his own tank), but isn't a dying old man slogging it out on the ground
This would be great.
To be fair, Yarrick would almost certainly qualify for rejuvenat treatment and this keeps humans healthy and active into their 4th century of life, at least. His age is still within the bounds of plausible for high-ranking Imperial officials.
The issue is yarrik is well beyond his 4th century… he was old during the second war for armeggedon and we are about to enter the 4th war…
Yarrick is the oldest guard special character. Sadly next is nork dedog. He’s the last 2nd Ed character still alive.
Stormonu wrote: Aren't dreadnoughts reserved for Space Marines?.
Nope, that’s Land Raiders.
Dreadnoughts have been used by baseline humans before, but usually the most elite ultra-wealthy because not only do you have to know the technology exists, you have to buy one then convince two tech-priests that their time is best spent interring you.
Space Marines are the only ones to do it on the regular because they are also the only group to have all the relevant equipment and expertise in one place.
Also, for a normal human this isn’t something you can do while mortally wounded and barely hanging on like a Marine; you have to be functioning and mostly uninjured or you will almost definitely die before they can get the first plugs installed…
Going from the Old Man of Armageddon to the Old Kan of Armageddon would be pretty funny. The orks would approve
Oh can you imagine? Give him one of the original tiny dreadnoughts from Rogue Trader then grunge it up with bolted on armour, Ork style. Not enough to compromise the Imperial aesthetic but enough that the Boyz can know and fear who’s coming for them. Better if his laser-eye turns into a lascannon.
His Master's Voice wrote: So did Yarrick manage the impossible feat of "Commissar dying of old age"?
What a legend.
So who wants to put money on whether we'll see Dreadnought Yarrick, Yarrick Jr. or a legion of Yarrick clones?
Ok, so here's what I was musing on the other day.
What if they release Yarrick but he's a baneblade upgrade sprue? It gives you all the ornamentation to create Yarrick's favorite ride, with Yarrick posed at the top. But he's kind of fused to it now, with all these wires and medical equipment keeping him alive. That way we get an old yarrick, who is still alive, and is lore friendly (since he has his own tank), but isn't a dying old man slogging it out on the ground
This would be great.
To be fair, Yarrick would almost certainly qualify for rejuvenat treatment and this keeps humans healthy and active into their 4th century of life, at least. His age is still within the bounds of plausible for high-ranking Imperial officials.
The issue is yarrik is well beyond his 4th century… he was old during the second war for armeggedon and we are about to enter the 4th war…
Yarrick is the oldest guard special character. Sadly next is nork dedog. He’s the last 2nd Ed character still alive.
Based on what? The current timeline ends at ~012.M42 under current canon, IIRC, making it ~70 years from the Second War for Armageddon. We don't know how old Yarrick actually was before Ghaz invaded, but he was not a celebrated hero before the defence of Hades hive and unlikely to have had any significant access to rejuvenat treatments. It is highly likely he was less than 100 years old, so he is probably less than 200 at the end of the current timeline. Even with the pre-retcon timespan of 100 years for the Indomitus crusade, Yarrick would probably be less than 300.
If anyone has any more concrete figures, I'd like to know.
Shakalooloo wrote: Yarrick can't die because Ghazghkull won't let 'im. And the Prophet of the Waaagh has enough Orky "belief = reality" to keep the old man running.
The "Ork Belief = Reality" isn't actually a thing like that at all.
Yarrick is even the most obvious example of how it isn't, because Orks believed he could kill them just by glaring - he couldn't actually and they didn't just fall dead when he did that, so he went and got a laser eye fitted.
EviscerationPlague wrote: It shouldn't matter if Yarrick died or not. Corbels is dead and you can run him besides Primaris units.
It matters if they remove the option. There are dead characters in 40k (quite a few if you count Gaunt's Ghosts), but most of them are no longer playable. Given that 40k is a setting though, you would think they'd be okay with a lot more dead characters floating around.
Heck, WFH was full of dead characters. Azhag, Gorbad allegedly, Grom, King Alrik, etc were all dead before the End Times ever happened, but there was no issue running them
I dunno, you've got compatible rules for Yarrick already (and War Comm is doing historical battles for the Heresy and Necromunda, so an update could come there).
I'm hoping he dies peacefully in his garden after hearing that Blackmane has slain Ghazghkull. His duty over, his work complete.
(it'd also fit with Ghazghkull keeping him alive as a nemesis. A brief interruption and then a new focus.)
Shakalooloo wrote: Yarrick can't die because Ghazghkull won't let 'im. And the Prophet of the Waaagh has enough Orky "belief = reality" to keep the old man running.
The "Ork Belief = Reality" isn't actually a thing like that at all.
Yarrick is even the most obvious example of how it isn't, because Orks believed he could kill them just by glaring - he couldn't actually and they didn't just fall dead when he did that, so he went and got a laser eye fitted.
Just because it didn't DIRECTLY cause it doesn't mean it wasn't the cause - da orks believed Yarrick could kill with a glance, he got a laser eye fitted BECAUSE THEY BELIEVED IT, and their belief was vindicated!
Same way the Imperium may pump Yarrick full of life-extending bionics just to use him as a rallying point figurehead against Ghazghkull, which is just wot da orks want!
His Master's Voice wrote: So did Yarrick manage the impossible feat of "Commissar dying of old age"?
What a legend.
So who wants to put money on whether we'll see Dreadnought Yarrick, Yarrick Jr. or a legion of Yarrick clones?
Ok, so here's what I was musing on the other day.
What if they release Yarrick but he's a baneblade upgrade sprue? It gives you all the ornamentation to create Yarrick's favorite ride, with Yarrick posed at the top. But he's kind of fused to it now, with all these wires and medical equipment keeping him alive. That way we get an old yarrick, who is still alive, and is lore friendly (since he has his own tank), but isn't a dying old man slogging it out on the ground
This would be great.
To be fair, Yarrick would almost certainly qualify for rejuvenat treatment and this keeps humans healthy and active into their 4th century of life, at least. His age is still within the bounds of plausible for high-ranking Imperial officials.
The issue is yarrik is well beyond his 4th century… he was old during the second war for armeggedon and we are about to enter the 4th war…
Yarrick is the oldest guard special character. Sadly next is nork dedog. He’s the last 2nd Ed character still alive.
Based on what? The current timeline ends at ~012.M42 under current canon, IIRC, making it ~70 years from the Second War for Armageddon. We don't know how old Yarrick actually was before Ghaz invaded, but he was not a celebrated hero before the defence of Hades hive and unlikely to have had any significant access to rejuvenat treatments. It is highly likely he was less than 100 years old, so he is probably less than 200 at the end of the current timeline. Even with the pre-retcon timespan of 100 years for the Indomitus crusade, Yarrick would probably be less than 300.
If anyone has any more concrete figures, I'd like to know.
He was already old man yarrik in the second war which happened @ 941.M41 The Second War for Armageddon…
The current timeline which is during the indomitus crusade is 111.M42…
012.M42 was the plague wars with the big nurgle releases…
That is 170+ years between and the next edition (starting with arcs of omen) is already past this..
so he is probably not quite 400 but close to it..
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Someone on Facebook is reporting Yarrick is killed in a footnote in the new codex.
Sigh...
Yeah that's what my post was in reference to. Valrak made a video about it. Apparently the footnote includes a picture of Yarrick's skull (according to Valrak's source, at least).
EviscerationPlague wrote: It shouldn't matter if Yarrick died or not. Corbels is dead and you can run him besides Primaris units.
It matters if they remove the option. There are dead characters in 40k (quite a few if you count Gaunt's Ghosts), but most of them are no longer playable. Given that 40k is a setting though, you would think they'd be okay with a lot more dead characters floating around.
Heck, WFH was full of dead characters. Azhag, Gorbad allegedly, Grom, King Alrik, etc were all dead before the End Times ever happened, but there was no issue running them
You miss my grand point of Corbulo being ran next to Primaris
Shakalooloo wrote: Yarrick can't die because Ghazghkull won't let 'im. And the Prophet of the Waaagh has enough Orky "belief = reality" to keep the old man running.
The belibc reality is overhyped by fans. Canon it's not that big thing. More of oil lube than magic. No empty box doesn't shoot because ork believes.
Shakalooloo wrote: Yarrick can't die because Ghazghkull won't let 'im. And the Prophet of the Waaagh has enough Orky "belief = reality" to keep the old man running.
The "Ork Belief = Reality" isn't actually a thing like that at all.
Yarrick is even the most obvious example of how it isn't, because Orks believed he could kill them just by glaring - he couldn't actually and they didn't just fall dead when he did that, so he went and got a laser eye fitted.
Just because it didn't DIRECTLY cause it doesn't mean it wasn't the cause - da orks believed Yarrick could kill with a glance, he got a laser eye fitted BECAUSE THEY BELIEVED IT, and their belief was vindicated!
Same way the Imperium may pump Yarrick full of life-extending bionics just to use him as a rallying point figurehead against Ghazghkull, which is just wot da orks want!
Valrak mentioned Yarrick may potentially have been killed by Angron in his video about it. Pure speculation, but the image of Angron fighting Guard models, and Angron likely coming back on Armageddon makes this a neat theory...
Ghazghkull is going to absolutely be FURIOUS if that is the case though, and a great way to set up a big Orks versus World Eaters clash.
Edit. Still really bummed out about it though. Yarrick is my favorite mortal character, with a few others from various sources trailing behind. Every Guard army I have ever purchased has began with Yarrick, because no other old human is so angry enough to come out of retirement like he did just to cave in some skulls.
To be honest, I am surprised they mention him at all. That is the highest form of distinction they ever did. Usually with IG, if something drops OOP, it's simply not mentioned anymore. But it's not like GW is giving much about the IG characters at all. Just look at Creed who as of 3rd edition was a great General that not only rose up to the challenge of the Tyroc fields, but supposedly survived the 13th Black Crusade and would lead on the Cadian 8th in a manner that would make him popular all over the Galaxy (real Lord Solar potential instead of Leroy Arcadia out of nowhere). He was the real poster boy, even on the Cover of the Codex.
As of now: Retconned into an upstart with great potential and a genius mind, but was overshadowed and a mere lower ranking General footnote. That in the end held Cadia for 100 days and then lost and disappeared. Why anyone outside of Cadia should know him is beyond me.
Same goes with any other characters. I'd be surprised if they even mentioned the war for Armageddon and the Steel Legion in 2 editions anymore. No model = no background.
I much prefer 40k be a setting rather than a story. Having said this, I like to have new characters enter the setting and if this necessitates killing old characters then I'm all for it. I really like what they did with Tycho, he was always one of my favourites and when they killed him, put a date on the event, and also introduced DC Tycho (something that's obviously not going to be the norm when killing characters) I was very satisfied with this despite that it meant losing Tycho. I say all this from the perspective of a non-gamer.
I'm perfectly fine with characters dying, but they deserve fitting deaths. If Yarrick gets a small blurb about his death, it will be disappointing. In addition, they could keep his rules. It's not like they're super complex.
TheBestBucketHead wrote: I'm perfectly fine with characters dying, but they deserve fitting deaths.
Dunno about this one, personally. A random ork shoota boy gutting Yarrick with a lucky shot and the old man just dropping into the dirt like a bean of sacks to disappear in the endless carpet of corpses - with his skull being only assumedly recovered and nobody really remembering his name or his deeds a week later - sounds nicely grimdark. The only problem I can see is that there isn't much tradition for this kind of stuff in the fluff, so it would most likely go over people's heads.
BlackoCatto wrote: Guard are really losing a lot named well liked characters for... Ursula :C
And the bland cavalry guy
So Ursula replaced Yarrick?!
What a dumpster fire!
Ursala replaced her father who isn’t dead and can come back in another edition. To be fair any missing not confirmed dead person can come back as a pokeball.
Someone posted on FB that Kasrkin are on 28mm bases, not 25. Grrrrr
Would Kill Team models have different bases?
No. Kasrkin are on 28mm bases.
It's not unreasonable. They'd look janky on 32mm bases, but the 28mm base makes a slightly noticeable difference to the "standard" Cadian Shock Troops.
If any faction is losing named character, it makes sense for guard, they have the shortest life span and the time in the setting has jumped forward a good bit.
Also, guard are the least sense to have named characters, they are supposed to be the nameless masses of humanity against a wave of horror. We certainly don’t need named characters for all the regiments they have, I would prefer a way to specialify your own characters and pay a price for that, which is something they have done in recent books, but I’d like it expanded with guard. Make your own hero’s.
Andykp wrote: If any faction is losing named character, it makes sense for guard, they have the shortest life span and the time in the setting has jumped forward a good bit.
Also, guard are the least sense to have named characters, they are supposed to be the nameless masses of humanity against a wave of horror. We certainly don’t need named characters for all the regiments they have, I would prefer a way to specialify your own characters and pay a price for that, which is something they have done in recent books, but I’d like it expanded with guard. Make your own hero’s.
Actually, that honour goes to the Tau (excepting Ethereals it seems), with Farsight explictly only alive because of the Dawnblade. Unclear what is sustaining Shadowsun at this point.
Yeah, Tau are supposed to have shorter life spans than humans. Necrontyr lifespans would probably be less than humans' too.
Ethereals probably use some sort of super exclusive medical technology, some age old secret that is known only to their caste (like diet, meditation or something of that nature) or maybe their caste is just long lived compared to the others.
After all, Queen Bees live for a year, whereas worker bees live for a month.
Andykp wrote: If any faction is losing named character, it makes sense for guard, they have the shortest life span and the time in the setting has jumped forward a good bit.
Also, guard are the least sense to have named characters, they are supposed to be the nameless masses of humanity against a wave of horror. We certainly don’t need named characters for all the regiments they have, I would prefer a way to specialify your own characters and pay a price for that, which is something they have done in recent books, but I’d like it expanded with guard. Make your own hero’s.
Actually, that honour goes to the Tau (excepting Ethereals it seems), with Farsight explictly only alive because of the Dawnblade. Unclear what is sustaining Shadowsun at this point.
Lots of time in the freezer. They keep Shadowsun in stasis and defrost her whenever they need her to run an important campaign.
Andykp wrote: If any faction is losing named character, it makes sense for guard, they have the shortest life span and the time in the setting has jumped forward a good bit.
Also, guard are the least sense to have named characters, they are supposed to be the nameless masses of humanity against a wave of horror. We certainly don’t need named characters for all the regiments they have, I would prefer a way to specialify your own characters and pay a price for that, which is something they have done in recent books, but I’d like it expanded with guard. Make your own hero’s.
Don’t tau have the shortest natural life span? Sure guard life expectancy in battle is lower, but tau only live thirty or forty years. Unless you use a magic sword
Andykp wrote: If any faction is losing named character, it makes sense for guard, they have the shortest life span and the time in the setting has jumped forward a good bit.
Also, guard are the least sense to have named characters, they are supposed to be the nameless masses of humanity against a wave of horror. We certainly don’t need named characters for all the regiments they have, I would prefer a way to specialify your own characters and pay a price for that, which is something they have done in recent books, but I’d like it expanded with guard. Make your own hero’s.
Actually, that honour goes to the Tau (excepting Ethereals it seems), with Farsight explictly only alive because of the Dawnblade. Unclear what is sustaining Shadowsun at this point.
That I did not know, don’t pay much attention to tau, still seem them as the upstart newcomers tot the setting!
Andykp wrote: If any faction is losing named character, it makes sense for guard, they have the shortest life span and the time in the setting has jumped forward a good bit.
Also, guard are the least sense to have named characters, they are supposed to be the nameless masses of humanity against a wave of horror. We certainly don’t need named characters for all the regiments they have, I would prefer a way to specialify your own characters and pay a price for that, which is something they have done in recent books, but I’d like it expanded with guard. Make your own hero’s.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Someone on Facebook is reporting Yarrick is killed in a footnote in the new codex.
Sigh...
This actually kinda fits 40K...
"...But the universe is a big place and, whatever happens, you will not be missed..."
But I miss him
I'm sure Ghaz misses him too. Just imagine a huge cyborg ork in a suit messily sobbing about how Yarrick was "da best foight he'z eva 'ad" while all of the imperial nobles are just looking very scared and confused why the the Prophet of the Waagh is at an Imperial funeral*
*He was invited. As a final act of vengeance against Ghaz, Yarrick willed himself to die of old age, thereby robbing Ghaz of the opponent he craves. The invitation was written in advance to rub it in.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: *He was invited. As a final act of vengeance against Ghaz, Yarrick willed himself to die of old age, thereby robbing Ghaz of the opponent he craves. The invitation was written in advance to rub it in.
I'm sure Ghaz misses him too.
Just imagine a huge cyborg ork in a suit messily sobbing about how Yarrick was "da best foight he'z eva 'ad" while all of the imperial nobles are just looking very scared and confused why the the Prophet of the Waagh is at an Imperial funeral*
*He was invited. As a final act of vengeance against Ghaz, Yarrick willed himself to die of old age, thereby robbing Ghaz of the opponent he craves. The invitation was written in advance to rub it in.
New head canon
There was an IG novel about Yarrick and Ghaz that actually made the relationship work. Yarrick is Ahab and Ghaz is Moby Dick. Yarrick cannot win against Ghaz, Yarrick will never win against Ghaz, but he doesn't know or care. He'll sacrifice as many body parts and as many men as it takes to get Ghaz, but it will never be enough.
In it Ghaz does not 'let him go' Yarrick arranges a massive escape from an Ork hulk, but we the readers realize Ghaz could have stopped him but didn't.
I'm sure Ghaz misses him too.
Just imagine a huge cyborg ork in a suit messily sobbing about how Yarrick was "da best foight he'z eva 'ad" while all of the imperial nobles are just looking very scared and confused why the the Prophet of the Waagh is at an Imperial funeral*
*He was invited. As a final act of vengeance against Ghaz, Yarrick willed himself to die of old age, thereby robbing Ghaz of the opponent he craves. The invitation was written in advance to rub it in.
New head canon
There was an IG novel about Yarrick and Ghaz that actually made the relationship work. Yarrick is Ahab and Ghaz is Moby Dick. Yarrick cannot win against Ghaz, Yarrick will never win against Ghaz, but he doesn't know or care. He'll sacrifice as many body parts and as many men as it takes to get Ghaz, but it will never be enough.
In it Ghaz does not 'let him go' Yarrick arranges a massive escape from an Ork hulk, but we the readers realize Ghaz could have stopped him but didn't.
I like to think that goes both ways. Though also that Yarrick can let it go and that's the biggest insult he can deliver, there are other people who can carry that torch onwards.
Just sending Ghaz a big marrow once a year, until you send one with a teleport homer in it.
Wait, I thought Ragnar Blackmane killed Ghazkull MagThrakka?
No, Ragnar only decapitated him, which is only fatal in about 30% of Orks. Poor battlefield hygiene there, not having a melta charge and aspen stake handy to seal the deal…
Snrub wrote: I just want the ability for Rough Riders to take lasguns!!
I remember back with the 1st version of the Imperial Guard codex in 3rd edition. People would look at me like WTF when I had Rough riders with pistols, lasguns, CCW, and a hunting lance. One of the few units that could have more than 2 weapons back then. Then they'd look at me weird again when they saw a Commissar on a horse. I had to point out the blurb in the rules that stated any commissar attached to the squad got a free horse.
Automatically Appended Next Post: He's not even gone yet, but I already miss him too! ?? I dip out for a couple years and this is what I get.
I once wrote a fanfic about how Col Straken got his bionic eye by engaging in a staring contest with Commissar Yarrik ??
Orkimedes clones Yarrick from some blood from a mosquito-squig that bit the commissar in captivity. It didn't have the full DNA sequence, so they had to splice in some Grot DNA to make it work, and that's how Ghaz got his new Makari. Orks find a way.
I'm sure Ghaz misses him too.
Just imagine a huge cyborg ork in a suit messily sobbing about how Yarrick was "da best foight he'z eva 'ad" while all of the imperial nobles are just looking very scared and confused why the the Prophet of the Waagh is at an Imperial funeral*
*He was invited. As a final act of vengeance against Ghaz, Yarrick willed himself to die of old age, thereby robbing Ghaz of the opponent he craves. The invitation was written in advance to rub it in.
New head canon
There was an IG novel about Yarrick and Ghaz that actually made the relationship work. Yarrick is Ahab and Ghaz is Moby Dick. Yarrick cannot win against Ghaz, Yarrick will never win against Ghaz, but he doesn't know or care. He'll sacrifice as many body parts and as many men as it takes to get Ghaz, but it will never be enough.
In it Ghaz does not 'let him go' Yarrick arranges a massive escape from an Ork hulk, but we the readers realize Ghaz could have stopped him but didn't.
I'm sure Ghaz misses him too.
Just imagine a huge cyborg ork in a suit messily sobbing about how Yarrick was "da best foight he'z eva 'ad" while all of the imperial nobles are just looking very scared and confused why the the Prophet of the Waagh is at an Imperial funeral*
*He was invited. As a final act of vengeance against Ghaz, Yarrick willed himself to die of old age, thereby robbing Ghaz of the opponent he craves. The invitation was written in advance to rub it in.
New head canon
There was an IG novel about Yarrick and Ghaz that actually made the relationship work. Yarrick is Ahab and Ghaz is Moby Dick. Yarrick cannot win against Ghaz, Yarrick will never win against Ghaz, but he doesn't know or care. He'll sacrifice as many body parts and as many men as it takes to get Ghaz, but it will never be enough.
In it Ghaz does not 'let him go' Yarrick arranges a massive escape from an Ork hulk, but we the readers realize Ghaz could have stopped him but didn't.
"Not available this year" is the contents of the Cadia Stands: Astra Militarum Army Setseparately. Not surprising. Those will be available when Codex Astra Militarum and the rest of the Astra Militarum releases happened this winter as GW already told us, aka after the New Year.
But in other news. I really like these new Cadians, and I look forward to the spectacle of whole armies comprised of the updated models. Because they look ace.
A certainly someone is always going on about Sergeants with Lasguns. Guard Sergeants final get a rifle option... and it's a different gun. It's just so tasty.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: But in other news. I really like these new Cadians, and I look forward to the spectacle of whole armies comprised of the updated models. Because they look ace.
I have no desire to replace (or add to) my Cadians with the new ones (and not just because they'll probably be a head taller than the current minis). Having said that, if the new heads fit the current models, I could see a few big bits orders in my future.
Of course, now that I know we're not getting Kreig Command Squad/Heavy Weapons, I'm not so sure I want my two sets of Krieg Infantry anymore...
A certainly someone is always going on about Sergeants with Lasguns. Guard Sergeants final get a rifle option... and it's a different gun. It's just so tasty.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: But in other news. I really like these new Cadians, and I look forward to the spectacle of whole armies comprised of the updated models. Because they look ace.
I have no desire to replace (or add to) my Cadians with the new ones (and not just because they'll probably be a head taller than the current minis). Having said that, if the new heads fit the current models, I could see a few big bits orders in my future.
Of course, now that I know we're not getting Kreig Command Squad/Heavy Weapons, I'm not so sure I want my two sets of Krieg Infantry anymore...
The krieg box has a couple of models kneeling or relatively low to the ground. Could easily convert them to the heavy weapons team, I'm sure. I bet we'll see a lot of people doing that into the future.
does it suck to have to buy 2 boxes to make the 1 thing you want? Absolutely, but some builders will make the sacrifice.
Honestly my greater concern in that regard is that GW seems to be pushing this idea of 'mixed regiments'. "Have some cadian shock troops alongside your krieg veterans and your catachan hellhounds and your vostroyan tanks! It's fluffy because the imperium is so diverse and the regiments just gotta make do!"
They're literally trying to weasel out of making separate kits for different regiments.
Meanwhile, Warcry is going to soon be up to 16 different flavors of chaos cultists. And each of those boxes of 10+ chaos cultists has a datasheet/battlescroll in AoS as well.
So, y'know, GW priorities. Wonderfully consistent.
To be fair I'd bet we see those (Krieg HWTs, etc) eventually it just there was always only so much they were going to release at once. We've got a new tank, redone sentinel (not sure that was needed but whatever) and a completely revamped Cadians line (which some doubted when they released old guys with the new sprue not that long ago.
I'm sure Ghaz misses him too.
Just imagine a huge cyborg ork in a suit messily sobbing about how Yarrick was "da best foight he'z eva 'ad" while all of the imperial nobles are just looking very scared and confused why the the Prophet of the Waagh is at an Imperial funeral*
*He was invited. As a final act of vengeance against Ghaz, Yarrick willed himself to die of old age, thereby robbing Ghaz of the opponent he craves. The invitation was written in advance to rub it in.
New head canon
There was an IG novel about Yarrick and Ghaz that actually made the relationship work. Yarrick is Ahab and Ghaz is Moby Dick. Yarrick cannot win against Ghaz, Yarrick will never win against Ghaz, but he doesn't know or care. He'll sacrifice as many body parts and as many men as it takes to get Ghaz, but it will never be enough.
In it Ghaz does not 'let him go' Yarrick arranges a massive escape from an Ork hulk, but we the readers realize Ghaz could have stopped him but didn't.
I dunno, but I just wanna be able to give my Sgts Storm bolters or lasguns again.
But this is a step in the right direction.
A laspistol on a firing line is a waste.
A certainly someone is always going on about Sergeants with Lasguns. Guard Sergeants final get a rifle option... and it's a different gun. It's just so tasty.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: But in other news. I really like these new Cadians, and I look forward to the spectacle of whole armies comprised of the updated models. Because they look ace.
I have no desire to replace (or add to) my Cadians with the new ones (and not just because they'll probably be a head taller than the current minis). Having said that, if the new heads fit the current models, I could see a few big bits orders in my future.
Of course, now that I know we're not getting Kreig Command Squad/Heavy Weapons, I'm not so sure I want my two sets of Krieg Infantry anymore...
The krieg box has a couple of models kneeling or relatively low to the ground. Could easily convert them to the heavy weapons team, I'm sure. I bet we'll see a lot of people doing that into the future.
does it suck to have to buy 2 boxes to make the 1 thing you want? Absolutely, but some builders will make the sacrifice.
Honestly my greater concern in that regard is that GW seems to be pushing this idea of 'mixed regiments'. "Have some cadian shock troops alongside your krieg veterans and your catachan hellhounds and your vostroyan tanks! It's fluffy because the imperium is so diverse and the regiments just gotta make do!"
They're literally trying to weasel out of making separate kits for different regiments.
Meanwhile, Warcry is going to soon be up to 16 different flavors of chaos cultists. And each of those boxes of 10+ chaos cultists has a datasheet/battlescroll in AoS as well.
So, y'know, GW priorities. Wonderfully consistent.
On the separate regiments, range diversity and holes in it?
This is precisely why I’m not a fan of the multiple regiments approach. Sure suggest them in the background, and give the freedom to convert. But 2nd Ed introduced too many variants. Should’ve just left them with a highly standardised uniform.
I dunno, but I just wanna be able to give my Sgts Storm bolters or lasguns again.
But this is a step in the right direction.
A laspistol on a firing line is a waste.
Adding stormbolters and combi-weapons back into the Guard equipment roster would have been great. Alas, our last infantry stormbolter appears to have gone the way of the dodo with Yarrick.
I just really hope that there will be some sort of ranged options for sergeants in standard infantry squads. I like to keep the melee weapon plus pistol thing something for the officers to help them stand out more. Sergeants should still have ranged main weapons, whether it's a lasgun, this new-fangled SMG, or a bolter.
A certainly someone is always going on about Sergeants with Lasguns. Guard Sergeants final get a rifle option... and it's a different gun. It's just so tasty.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: But in other news. I really like these new Cadians, and I look forward to the spectacle of whole armies comprised of the updated models. Because they look ace.
I have no desire to replace (or add to) my Cadians with the new ones (and not just because they'll probably be a head taller than the current minis). Having said that, if the new heads fit the current models, I could see a few big bits orders in my future.
Of course, now that I know we're not getting Kreig Command Squad/Heavy Weapons, I'm not so sure I want my two sets of Krieg Infantry anymore...
The krieg box has a couple of models kneeling or relatively low to the ground. Could easily convert them to the heavy weapons team, I'm sure. I bet we'll see a lot of people doing that into the future.
does it suck to have to buy 2 boxes to make the 1 thing you want? Absolutely, but some builders will make the sacrifice.
Honestly my greater concern in that regard is that GW seems to be pushing this idea of 'mixed regiments'. "Have some cadian shock troops alongside your krieg veterans and your catachan hellhounds and your vostroyan tanks! It's fluffy because the imperium is so diverse and the regiments just gotta make do!"
They're literally trying to weasel out of making separate kits for different regiments.
Meanwhile, Warcry is going to soon be up to 16 different flavors of chaos cultists. And each of those boxes of 10+ chaos cultists has a datasheet/battlescroll in AoS as well.
So, y'know, GW priorities. Wonderfully consistent.
On the separate regiments, range diversity and holes in it?
This is precisely why I’m not a fan of the multiple regiments approach. Sure suggest them in the background, and give the freedom to convert. But 2nd Ed introduced too many variants. Should’ve just left them with a highly standardised uniform.
I disagree, I love the variety.
But then I have forces of Steel Legion, Cadians, Valhallans, Vostroyans, Scions, and a couple of Catachans I'm planning to expand, plus a box of plastic DKoK I need to build. So I was the target for the 2nd-3rd edition variety.
Personally, I don't mix the forces much at a low level (excepting tank support attached to the infantry), but in larger games different discrete formations supporting each other looks great.
Ah well. If they're £120 and the combat patrol isn't available until 2023 I suppose I'll be buying two of these army boxes instead of one plus a CP later on. Still, at least this route hedges against the possibility that the CP contains old stuff I don't need like a Chimera or some other rubbish like that.
A certainly someone is always going on about Sergeants with Lasguns. Guard Sergeants final get a rifle option... and it's a different gun. It's just so tasty.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: But in other news. I really like these new Cadians, and I look forward to the spectacle of whole armies comprised of the updated models. Because they look ace.
I have no desire to replace (or add to) my Cadians with the new ones (and not just because they'll probably be a head taller than the current minis). Having said that, if the new heads fit the current models, I could see a few big bits orders in my future.
Of course, now that I know we're not getting Kreig Command Squad/Heavy Weapons, I'm not so sure I want my two sets of Krieg Infantry anymore...
The krieg box has a couple of models kneeling or relatively low to the ground. Could easily convert them to the heavy weapons team, I'm sure. I bet we'll see a lot of people doing that into the future.
does it suck to have to buy 2 boxes to make the 1 thing you want? Absolutely, but some builders will make the sacrifice.
Honestly my greater concern in that regard is that GW seems to be pushing this idea of 'mixed regiments'. "Have some cadian shock troops alongside your krieg veterans and your catachan hellhounds and your vostroyan tanks! It's fluffy because the imperium is so diverse and the regiments just gotta make do!"
They're literally trying to weasel out of making separate kits for different regiments.
Meanwhile, Warcry is going to soon be up to 16 different flavors of chaos cultists. And each of those boxes of 10+ chaos cultists has a datasheet/battlescroll in AoS as well.
So, y'know, GW priorities. Wonderfully consistent.
On the separate regiments, range diversity and holes in it?
This is precisely why I’m not a fan of the multiple regiments approach. Sure suggest them in the background, and give the freedom to convert. But 2nd Ed introduced too many variants. Should’ve just left them with a highly standardised uniform.
I disagree, I love the variety.
But then I have forces of Steel Legion, Cadians, Valhallans, Vostroyans, Scions, and a couple of Catachans I'm planning to expand, plus a box of plastic DKoK I need to build. So I was the target for the 2nd-3rd edition variety.
Personally, I don't mix the forces much at a low level (excepting tank support attached to the infantry), but in larger games different discrete formations supporting each other looks great.
There is the odd thing here.
Back when they did the split, a core box and a handful of blisters with maybe twenty sculpts tops was, probably, enough.
But then they went plastic. And it took ages to get Heavy Weapons teams in plastic. And they only did two Regimental styles. And the Catachans (not their command squad to be fair) were crap from the get go.
Now? Well….now they do actually have the resources to produce multiple plastic regiments with the suite of options (which lets be accurate here, is essentially Command Squad, Heavy Weapons Squad, Infantry Squad).
Krieg? One can probably cobble together a Command Squad from the infantry box. I’m not that familiar with the kit myself so limiting to probably here. So just Heavy Weapons.
I mean... I *know* that those boxes are much (or at least some) cheaper than buying it separate, but still.... what you see in the pic feels like very much not enough for 155 euros
Albertorius wrote: I mean... I *know* that those boxes are much (or at least some) cheaper than buying it separate, but still.... what you see in the pic feels like very much not enough for 155 euros
The miniatures look like a nice equivalent to Start Collecting contents. The other half of the price must be the paper components. Man, paper got expensive of late!
At least it doesn't look quite as sad as what Black Templars got, or the new Slaves to Darkness "army set".
To be honest in thr old days most people would just kitbash command squads anyway.
So heavy weapons are the only thing i agree on being a problem ( as those poses are a bit unique).
One would hope for something for those in the future.
Edit: or just 3d print. Playing a unique IG Army/Regiment was never this easy.
Thing on the Heavy Weapons? Crews and Pews (do you see what I did there?) just need to be separate sprues. That way, one can freely swap in different crew sprue with the same pew sprue (no, I’m not gonna stop and you can’t make me) and different regiments become a cinch.
Albertorius wrote: I mean... I *know* that those boxes are much (or at least some) cheaper than buying it separate, but still.... what you see in the pic feels like very much not enough for 155 euros
Compared to the Slaves to Darkness box, it looks packed. 14 whole models compared to 25 + 2 artillery +sentinel.
So when we will see reviews of the box? I am really interested seeing the alternate gasmask heads and potential other options that GW has refused to properly preview.
Albertorius wrote: I mean... I *know* that those boxes are much (or at least some) cheaper than buying it separate, but still.... what you see in the pic feels like very much not enough for 155 euros
Compared to the Slaves to Darkness box, it looks packed. 14 whole models compared to 25 + 2 artillery +sentinel.
Maybe I still remember that the OG IG 20-man boxes were 30 euros (when they raised it, I seem to remember it was cheaper at first)
Flinty wrote: This is frivolous and nit-picky, but the rocket launcher thingy looks pretty dangerous to the operator sat directly behind the rocket thingies
I would be inclined to maybe not have the seated guy on that particular setup. Or paint the guy as particularly sooty
Also, of even less importance, there is a form/from typo in Vengeance of Cadia.
He has the right head at least.
Spoiler:
That's one of those things for which I'd like to see the 360s. The field guns are pretty cool. Would be a shame if the weapon is designed to need a new operator every time it fires. Then again, latest Batman has a guy explode in his face and he's fine*. Maybe Cadians are made of the same material as Robert Pattinson.
Flinty wrote: This is frivolous and nit-picky, but the rocket launcher thingy looks pretty dangerous to the operator sat directly behind the rocket thingies
Not if it is a cold/soft launch system. Tho I highly doubt GW considered that .
Albertorius wrote: I mean... I *know* that those boxes are much (or at least some) cheaper than buying it separate, but still.... what you see in the pic feels like very much not enough for 155 euros
Compared to the Slaves to Darkness box, it looks packed. 14 whole models compared to 25 + 2 artillery +sentinel.
Maybe I still remember that the OG IG 20-man boxes were 30 euros (when they raised it, I seem to remember it was cheaper at first)
Yes, they went from 20 men for 30€ to 10 men for 20€. The Guardsmen got a couple of price hikes over the years. I remember the 22.50€ and 26€ steps.
Looks like Catachans only went up to 27€ in the meantime, while Cadians are 40€ now thanks to their glorious upgrade sprue.
Doesn't bode well for the price of the eventual separate release either. I doubt new Cadians will be cheaper than old Cadians.
Albertorius wrote: I mean... I *know* that those boxes are much (or at least some) cheaper than buying it separate, but still.... what you see in the pic feels like very much not enough for 155 euros
Compared to the Slaves to Darkness box, it looks packed. 14 whole models compared to 25 + 2 artillery +sentinel.
Maybe I still remember that the OG IG 20-man boxes were 30 euros (when they raised it, I seem to remember it was cheaper at first)
I mean, sure. We could have all sorts of fun bemoaning the lost prices of yesteryear. But I don't see much point in setting expectations based on late 80s/early 90s pricing.
Looks like almost everything in the article lines up with leaks again, only the stratagem looks like new info (and potentially good info depending on how cadia/platoon keywords get handed out).
Has anyone seen any sprues yet for field guns or shock troops? I think Kasrkin are the only ones shown off officially so far.
I mean I don’t need to buy much this release it seems.
Sentinels are just new models
Infantry are just new models
Field artillery I’ll pick up 2-4 of them next year but no rush
The new tank I want 1 but leman russ still looks more competitive
And the lord solar I’ll pick up eventually but I’ll also probably print or kitbash a dkok version.
I just need the book and data cards to start playing.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Does anyone feel like the rockets and the cannon got their rules swapped? The rockets should be the indirect fire one?
Not really, I feel more like the rules were written before the models were made and whoever made the models did not know the rules.
Except GW does it in reverse. Model maker makes model, then it's tossen to fluff&rule writers and told "do something for this"
I feel like the rules came before the model because that thing being a rocket launcher is awfully specific compared to the rest of the weapon lineup. But the rule writer imagined something like the M202 Flash while the modeler immediately thought of the Nebelwerfer.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Does anyone feel like the rockets and the cannon got their rules swapped? The rockets should be the indirect fire one?
Bear in mind that in old WFB, Empire cannons could fire indirectly while their mortars could not. This is just GW brining back some old nostalgic rules effects!
Woo for Rough Riders. Stack up those bonuses. And regimental tactics. And core. And immunity to movement shenanigans, sure (Evil space magic doesn't work against 4 legs, I guess?).
And 90% of a jump-pack equipped space marine statline, because why not?
Did you kill them turn 1? No? Well, enjoy.
Calling it now: first balance pass, they lose Core, maybe regimental tactics. People are going to riot, even if they turn out to be just above average.
Huh. Lasgun and Laspistol. Was genuinely expecting just Laspistol myself.
They seem pretty decent against vehicles too if they get to charge. S8, -3 save and D3, with two attacks each ought to put a pretty decent dent in if enough survive when the charge comes.
Rustle up a +1 to hit from somewhere, and they’re really quite nasty. I think.
In fact they’re quite nasty against Infantry too. S6, exploding attacks. Lovely.
Of course, I’d just counter by doing my best to blat them as early on as possible.
Honestly I'm usually one of the last people saying stuff like this but the rough riders seem to be a little over tuned conveniently on a new kit. They're humans, why are they base s4? Why do they have a lance, pistol and gun? Being core with the ignoring movement penalties, fast, reasonable ws, save and 2w and versatile melee weapons that are conveniently s8 is a little bit of a good package.
Famous "remarks made before in-codex synergies are revealed", but the field ordinance batteries look kind of sad if the rumoured 70 points price tag is correct.
Overpowered rough riders, the new AoS character being the only way to issue orders to certain units (and doing it with extreme efficiency), GW isn't exactly being subtle about making the new kits a mandatory purchase.
People do understand that rough riders can be move blocked right? I'd argue Cavalry has to be over tuned because otherwise they never get there. Also honestly they're 5pts cheaper than Ork Squig Cav which are tougher, more wounds, same save, 2" slower, can advance and charge, can do mortals, and have similar if not more attacks.
And they aren't lighting up the boards and haven't been since they came out. That cavalry key word is a bastard.
Dudeface wrote: Honestly I'm usually one of the last people saying stuff like this but the rough riders seem to be a little over tuned conveniently on a new kit. They're humans, why are they base s4? Why do they have a lance, pistol and gun? Being core with the ignoring movement penalties, fast, reasonable ws, save and 2w and versatile melee weapons that are conveniently s8 is a little bit of a good package.
I'm not gonna question it.
I'm just gonna ride the cybernetic tiger.
Aecus Decimus wrote: Overpowered rough riders, the new AoS character being the only way to issue orders to certain units (and doing it with extreme efficiency), GW isn't exactly being subtle about making the new kits a mandatory purchase.
That's impossible, that implies the Votaan were poorly designed too!
So, if I see it correctly, Sergeant can be 'model' who takes the goad and throws multiple mortal wounds on any vehicle that passes by?
Also I like his cheap sabre is not only strictly better than master crafted power swords Bladeguard have, but is also better than priceless, one of a kind relic sword Leontus has. Immersion!
Kinda sad RR lost their special weapons, but if they could also do drive-by-melta on the way in the unit could be a little too good...
Kinda sad RR lost their special weapons, but if they could also do drive-by-melta on the way in the unit could be a little too good...
Yeah, I could hear the screaming in my head about it from an alternate reality where they were allowed to keep them. While I'm sad that I once again have illegal models, at least the rest are decently good now.
Kinda sad RR lost their special weapons, but if they could also do drive-by-melta on the way in the unit could be a little too good...
Yeah, I could hear the screaming in my head about it from an alternate reality where they were allowed to keep them. While I'm sad that I once again have illegal models, at least the rest are decently good now.
I don't think it would have been a big deal. You had to give up the lance to take a special weapon and TBH with those lance stats I don't think it would even be a good idea from a list optimization point of view. It's pretty clearly a "no model no rules" thing, not a balance decision.
Dudeface wrote: Honestly I'm usually one of the last people saying stuff like this but the rough riders seem to be a little over tuned conveniently on a new kit. They're humans, why are they base s4? Why do they have a lance, pistol and gun? Being core with the ignoring movement penalties, fast, reasonable ws, save and 2w and versatile melee weapons that are conveniently s8 is a little bit of a good package.
Well it is standard practice that new kits are a bit better so that they sell and that is with about every codex release. Afterwards we are always seeing nerfs if things are OP.
I don't really see them that over powered. Yes they shine under very isolated conditions. In the end though, they still suffer from their low survivability and that if they get charged first, their profile looks a lot less interesting. That has been the case since forever. The only new thing is, that they can potentially threaten vehicles. Still you can hard counter them by: a) simply shooting them, T4 2W 4+ for 20pts, that is a lot worse than MEQ. b) screen your valuable units with cheap chaff, because the Cavalry is on large bases and can't fly. Or c) Assassinate them with Jump Units that are a lot more mobile and will utterly wreck them. Rough Riders don't have any of those fancy Strike First/if charged count as having charged rules after all.
And that is exactly how they've been dealt with even back in 3rd.
Yes Leroy Arcadia is a powerful multiplier, but he is also a massive points sink and in top 1 per army. And he does nothing to amend any of the weaknesses I listed.
And also, complaining that they have las pistols and lasrifles? Did I miss something? The las rifle is still utter crap and if the target has decently durable profile, probably not worth your lifetime to even go through the hassle of shooting it in the first place.
For me they seem reasonably strong to be taken and a considerable threat that can't be ignored in target priority. But neither death star potential, nor without weakness, just as they should be for their function.
How do you profitably screen something that can kill your chaff for 100 points? At 20ppm rough riders are going to trade at least neutrally and probably somewhat favorably even if they're "only" wiping all your chaff off the table. And not all armies even have chaff that can stand in front of your real army and die without taking up an excessive amount of points.
Yes Leroy Arcadia is a powerful multiplier, but he is also a massive points sink and in top 1 per army.
180 points is hardly a "massive point sink", especially when you're getting three standard officers worth of orders plus the ability to give orders to things that can't normally receive them plus a change of objectives or +1 CP. Even ignoring the combat stats he compares pretty favorably to his points in normal officers and he does it from a single FOC slot. And there's still the possibility that he unlocks storm troopers as troops like the leaks suggested, adding even more value. He's going to be an auto-include in almost every army at 180 points.
And also, complaining that they have las pistols and lasrifles? Did I miss something?
Not from a balance point of view, it's just a stupid concept that these guys are carrying 3-4 different weapons and somehow managing to swap between a two-handed rifle and a lance in the middle of a charge.
Talking of just targeting down the RR isn't potentially a valid tactic, however they won't be that hard to kill, if you can kill a marine with each, you can them without taking up other firepower you need to neutralise other threats.
Anyway, back to my point, there's a rumoured regiment trait or stratagem where you can mass outflank (anything) from turn 2 without normal restrictions. So outflanking these into your enemies deployment zone, Turn 2.
Not from a balance point of view, it's just a stupid concept that these guys are carrying 3-4 different weapons and somehow managing to swap between a two-handed rifle and a lance in the middle of a charge.
What you are failing to grasp with this last point is that this game is abstract. It is also not a wargame. These are game pieces that people give attributes to.
Not from a balance point of view, it's just a stupid concept that these guys are carrying 3-4 different weapons and somehow managing to swap between a two-handed rifle and a lance in the middle of a charge.
What you are failing to grasp with this last point is that this game is abstract. It is also not a wargame. These are game pieces that people give attributes to.
Where does the 12ft melta lance go while they fire an assault rifle 2 handed whilst riding horses at full pelt?
tneva82 wrote: New kit overpowered? Like da flyers? Tau flyers? Mork/gorkanaut? Primaris line?
Nice myth you keep spreading
You're denying it has happened though. I mean, we had literal proof of the example with Wraithknights. Sometimes GW thinks their unit might actually be broken too with how they choose to play as well.
To pretend they've actually changed because they have social media now is just denial.
tneva82 wrote: New kit overpowered? Like da flyers? Tau flyers? Mork/gorkanaut? Primaris line?
Nice myth you keep spreading
You're denying it has happened though. I mean, we had literal proof of the example with Wraithknights. Sometimes GW thinks their unit might actually be broken too with how they choose to play as well.
To pretend they've actually changed because they have social media now is just denial.
The claim was that all new kits are overpowered, plenty of evidence to show that they're not. Some are, but it's not a high enough % to suggest it's intentional.
Edit: I'm aware of the wraithknight thing, I know that will happen sometimes as well, but all that management team are gone as far as we know.
Irbis wrote: So, if I see it correctly, Sergeant can be 'model' who takes the goad and throws multiple mortal wounds on any vehicle that passes by?
Also I like his cheap sabre is not only strictly better than master crafted power swords Bladeguard have, but is also better than priceless, one of a kind relic sword Leontus has. Immersion!
Kinda sad RR lost their special weapons, but if they could also do drive-by-melta on the way in the unit could be a little too good...
Until the inevitable FAQ yeah he can take the goad. He can also take both the goad and power sabre together, and if the so far very accurate leaks are true, upgrade the sabre to a +2A relic sabre for the equivalent of 8 attacks that hit like powerfists on the charge with extra mortals on vehicles..
tneva82 wrote: New kit overpowered? Like da flyers? Tau flyers? Mork/gorkanaut? Primaris line?
Nice myth you keep spreading
You're denying it has happened though. I mean, we had literal proof of the example with Wraithknights. Sometimes GW thinks their unit might actually be broken too with how they choose to play as well.
To pretend they've actually changed because they have social media now is just denial.
The original source of that rumour literally said that the sales manager responsible for the decision had since left GW, and that they hadn't heard of anything similar happening after that.
Funny how people don't quote that part of it though.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Yeah... how does that launcher not fire indirectly?
Sculptor guy: Hey, look! We made these artillery pieces for the Astral Guard.
Fluff guy: Astra Militarum.
Sculptor guy: Come again? Anyway, we've redone the Cadians and added an AT gun, a howitzer and a multiple rocket launcher.
Rules guy: That's two indirect fire weapons. We probably shouldn't have that many of those.
Sculptor guy: Well, then just don't make both of them indirect fire.
Fluff guy: I mean, that's kind of how those rocket launchers work and what's the point of a howitzer if it doesn't shoot things it can't see?
Rules guy: I suppose we could make the rocket launcher indirect and make the distinction between the AT gun and howitzer revolve around focused damage versus blast.
Sculptor guy: There, problem solved.
Fluff guy: No, it's not. I have this really cool story in mind for the howitzer that involves indirect fire.
Rules guy: Just use the rocket launcher instead?
Fluff guy: No listen, that doesn't work. That thing goes whoosh whoosh whoosh kaboom! I really need a crack kaboom! It doesn't work any other way. It's got to be the howitzer.
Rules guy: Oh, come on!
Fluff guy: I. Need. Crack.
Sculptor guy: Don't we all?
Rules guy: I sure do now...
Fluff guy: It's settled then! Crack for everyone and indirect fire for the howitzer!
Rules guy: Whatever. Just give me my fix.
Not from a balance point of view, it's just a stupid concept that these guys are carrying 3-4 different weapons and somehow managing to swap between a two-handed rifle and a lance in the middle of a charge.
What you are failing to grasp with this last point is that this game is abstract. It is also not a wargame. These are game pieces that people give attributes to.
Where does the 12ft melta lance go while they fire an assault rifle 2 handed whilst riding horses at full pelt?
Haven't we determined that since humans are S3, S4 must represent the horse? Logic dictates that melee weapons that add to the bearer's strength are used by the part of the model that contributes the strength characteristic. Horses don't have hands, therefore it follows that the lance is held with the horse's teeth. That also leaves the rider free to fire his lasgun and pistol akimbo.
It's science! And probably featured on an 80s metal album cover, which makes everything better!
Sculptor guy: Hey, look! We made these artillery pieces for the Astral Guard.
Fluff guy: Astra Militarum.
Sculptor guy: Come again? Anyway, we've redone the Cadians and added an AT gun, a howitzer and a multiple rocket launcher.
Rules guy: That's two indirect fire weapons. We probably shouldn't have that many of those.
Sculptor guy: Well, then just don't make both of them indirect fire.
Fluff guy: I mean, that's kind of how those rocket launchers work and what's the point of a howitzer if it doesn't shoot things it can't see?
Rules guy: I suppose we could make the rocket launcher indirect and make the distinction between the AT gun and howitzer revolve around focused damage versus blast.
Sculptor guy: There, problem solved.
Fluff guy: No, it's not. I have this really cool story in mind for the howitzer that involves indirect fire.
Rules guy: Just use the rocket launcher instead?
Fluff guy: No listen, that doesn't work. That thing goes whoosh whoosh whoosh kaboom! I really need a crack kaboom! It doesn't work any other way. It's got to be the howitzer.
Rules guy: Oh, come on!
Fluff guy: I. Need. Crack.
Sculptor guy: Don't we all?
Rules guy: I sure do now...
Fluff guy: It's settled then! Crack for everyone and indirect fire for the howitzer!
Rules guy: Whatever. Just give me my fix.
Don't think that'll ever happen. Sculptor guy has a nice corner offfice and juicy shares, fluff guy is an aged, overweight nerd in a tiny cubicle after manning a GW store in Backwater UK, happy to have a somewhat reliable contract at least, while rules guy is an unpaid intern in the basement, working for a free Primaris a week.
i'd have prefered it, if we could've gotten rough riders without lances and then bought the lances if we wanted too... but options are not okay, okay!
but no, all rough riders are lancers and dragoons at the same time. Their profile thoigh is pretty nuts.
2 additional hits for a hit with the frag lance, ergo 3 generate 12 hits on average?
Also i like that the new plastic artillery is somehow superior to the classic thuddguns and heavy mortars which are a far more imposing callibre model wise but i guess fair is fair.
Most weapons are getting inflated, with older units getting left behind. A shadowsword tank now mounts a better volcano cannon than a reaver titan. At least we are starting to see a move towards toughness starting to increase to improve survivability without needing a ton of special saves or rules, with scout sentinels now at 6 and heavy tanks at 9.
Hulksmash wrote: People do understand that rough riders can be move blocked right? I'd argue Cavalry has to be over tuned because otherwise they never get there. Also honestly they're 5pts cheaper than Ork Squig Cav which are tougher, more wounds, same save, 2" slower, can advance and charge, can do mortals, and have similar if not more attacks.
And they aren't lighting up the boards and haven't been since they came out. That cavalry key word is a bastard.
This is a good observation.
The inability to move through walls can especially be limiting - despite a seemingly higher M stat.
I think the issue though is partly about army composition. I guess we'll see where the special rules end up - but Guard are probably going to be a mainly shooty army. So you can arguably just take 300-500 points of rough riders (i.e. 3*5, or potentially larger squads) as your counter-assault force. If your opponent wants to assault into the rest of your army, they are getting these guys in the face, and that should be produce an efficient trade.
I'm not really sure Orks can play this way. Partly that's the problem of Waaagh synergy. You tend to want to go all in with an Ork list, rather than run a toolbox. (Although I have not really looked at what "Ork meta" looks like these days, so I could be wrong.)
MajorWesJanson wrote: Most weapons are getting inflated, with older units getting left behind. A shadowsword tank now mounts a better volcano cannon than a reaver titan. At least we are starting to see a move towards toughness starting to increase to improve survivability without needing a ton of special saves or rules, with scout sentinels now at 6 and heavy tanks at 9.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Nice to have splodey-sticks that don't only work once. And I like that you don't have to choose between Frag or Melta, but get both.
Yeah. And fixed damage on the Melta helps them stop being too swingy. If it was Damage D3, I think they’d be cack, as you still need to get them into combat, on the charge, with enough numbers to count.
I think they might do quite well as a roving force for finishing off already damaged tanks or squads that have taken a mauling. Sure a full strength unit can do a lot of potential damage, they don’t seem especially survivable. So picking off the wounded, freeing up your firepower seems a natural role.
Not sure why everyone is getting upset about lasguns on the rough riders now. They were explicitly mentioned in the reveal article and you can see the holsters in the reveal video. I pointed this out at the time.
I am happy to see them there, historically cavalry have often festooned themselves with as many weapons as possible, Steppe cavalry especially. It is only a bit weird with the current mechanics of shooting rapid-fire weapons and assaulting in the same turn- previously you could only do either-or, giving a swap period between weapons. This is a game abstraction though, not a lore reason.
vipoid wrote: Advanced Eldar anti-tank weapon:
36" Heavy 1 S8 AP-4 D1d3+3
Primitive human anti-tank weapon:
48" Heavy 2 S10 AP-4 D1d3+3
Easy explanation:
One Codex was written by the day-shift rules team, and the other by the night-shift rules team. They don't talk except when passing each other in the hallway between shifts.
Haighus wrote: Not sure why everyone is getting upset about lasguns on the rough riders now. They were explicitly mentioned in the reveal article and you can see the holsters in the reveal video. I pointed this out at the time.
I am happy to see them there, historically cavalry have often festooned themselves with as many weapons as possible, Steppe cavalry especially. It is only a bit weird with the current mechanics of shooting rapid-fire weapons and assaulting in the same turn- previously you could only do either-or, giving a swap period between weapons. This is a game abstraction though, not a lore reason.
Because unless your game abstraction is, as previously mentioned is the horse swinging the lance in it's mouth while the rider is firing a las rifle the entire unit is impractical from a basic anatomy perspective. The might as well have just made the lance +1S extra and made them base S3 for consistency and written "has guns to participate in all phases and must be S8 to kill T4 efficiently" in the unit blurb.
vipoid wrote: Advanced Eldar anti-tank weapon:
36" Heavy 1 S8 AP-4 D1d3+3
Primitive human anti-tank weapon:
48" Heavy 2 S10 AP-4 D1d3+3
Did Eldar skip the Industrial Revolution or something?
GW has a long history of doing this, giving the "primitive" and "regressing" Imperium better weapons than the supposedly "advanced" Eldar or other older races. Take for example, the 3rd edition S6 fusion guns vs S8 melta guns.
Haighus wrote: Not sure why everyone is getting upset about lasguns on the rough riders now. They were explicitly mentioned in the reveal article and you can see the holsters in the reveal video. I pointed this out at the time.
I am happy to see them there, historically cavalry have often festooned themselves with as many weapons as possible, Steppe cavalry especially. It is only a bit weird with the current mechanics of shooting rapid-fire weapons and assaulting in the same turn- previously you could only do either-or, giving a swap period between weapons. This is a game abstraction though, not a lore reason.
Because unless your game abstraction is, as previously mentioned is the horse swinging the lance in it's mouth while the rider is firing a las rifle the entire unit is impractical from a basic anatomy perspective. The might as well have just made the lance +1S extra and made them base S3 for consistency and written "has guns to participate in all phases and must be S8 to kill T4 efficiently" in the unit blurb.
I am not sure what your point is? That it is silly that cavalry can shoot a lasgun and charge with a lance in the same phase, or that cavalry can carry and use both lasguns and lances?
The latter is obviously something cavalry can do, the rough rider models even show a model with its lance slung on its back.
The former is a game extraction of current rules allowing charging after firing rapid fire weapons. It wouldn't have been an issue in 5th edition, for example. It isn't a particularly egregious abstraction in the scheme of 40k, but different things break immersion for different people I guess. More a problem with rules interaction than loadout though. If it annoys you, pretend/model that they are firing a brace of laspistols for two las shots on the charge, like Polish winged hussars or something.
Aecus Decimus wrote: I don't think it would have been a big deal. You had to give up the lance to take a special weapon
You had to, but now that they have lasgun and lance, consistency would dictate it would be the lasgun that gets replaced (and frankly, common sense too, come on, two rifles?). And it would be a big deal because then they could melta two targets in one round, one with guns, one with spears. For 5 power points, that would be bigger damage output than any comparable SM unit can dream of...
Aecus Decimus wrote: Not from a balance point of view, it's just a stupid concept that these guys are carrying 3-4 different weapons and somehow managing to swap between a two-handed rifle and a lance in the middle of a charge.
Yeeeah, cavalry carrying rifles, lances, and pistols is such a stupid concept that is impossible to--
Oh wait
Dudeface wrote: Where does the 12ft melta lance go while they fire an assault rifle 2 handed whilst riding horses at full pelt?
Held under your thigh, like real cavalry did for pretty much ever. Or put in stirrup holder like above. Or any of dozen other things real cavalrymen did to swap weapons in real life.
Fun fact, Polish Hussars, you know, that thing that annoyingly a lot of clueless people who only saw it on parades fetishise, had sabre, sometimes horseman's pick or mace, plus either carbine or set of two to six pistols and a 5-6 meter lance (so long in fact it needed a huge counterbalance weight next to grip so the users could just level it). And they managed to reliable fire their guns before charge then swap to another melee weapon once lance broke but before contact with enemy line hundreds of times. So yeah, it can be done with far smaller weapons, easily.
Besides, in the far future it's not a stretch to imagine them developing telescopic or collapsible spears for easier concealment.
Personally I would have preferred it if they made Rough Riders into dragoons rather than lance cavalry, but I guess that's what the lasgun is for.
Come to think of it, the lances should probably have been replaced with miniature rocket launchers too. Orks get them, so why not imperials?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lord Damocles wrote: The better question is how are they switching from frag to melta Lance's on the fly?
Lord Damocles wrote: The better question is how are they switching from frag to melta Lance's on the fly?
I assumed they had exchangeable tips, and the body of the lance is designed to survive the impact with a new head attached depending on the next target.
Lord Damocles wrote: The better question is how are they switching from frag to melta Lance's on the fly?
They throw the lasgun on their back, holster their pistol, put the lance in the holder I just learned about, ask their slightly charred opponent to wait a few moments please, climb down, lower the lance to the floor, get a charge out their packs, unscrew the old charge, put the new one on, put it back in the holder, remount the horse, take the lance and politely ask their opponent to back up a couple meters so they can boop them on the snoot with the new charge.
How do you profitably screen something that can kill your chaff for 100 points? At 20ppm rough riders are going to trade at least neutrally and probably somewhat favorably even if they're "only" wiping all your chaff off the table. And not all armies even have chaff that can stand in front of your real army and die without taking up an excessive amount of points.
Yes Leroy Arcadia is a powerful multiplier, but he is also a massive points sink and in top 1 per army.
180 points is hardly a "massive point sink", especially when you're getting three standard officers worth of orders plus the ability to give orders to things that can't normally receive them plus a change of objectives or +1 CP. Even ignoring the combat stats he compares pretty favorably to his points in normal officers and he does it from a single FOC slot. And there's still the possibility that he unlocks storm troopers as troops like the leaks suggested, adding even more value. He's going to be an auto-include in almost every army at 180 points.
And also, complaining that they have las pistols and lasrifles? Did I miss something?
Not from a balance point of view, it's just a stupid concept that these guys are carrying 3-4 different weapons and somehow managing to swap between a two-handed rifle and a lance in the middle of a charge.
1. Your Army might have access to sceening unit or not, alternatively most armies that need to get close have transports. You can just charge a transport into them or use it for blocking. Also Screening is just one option. Are you claiming not to be able to wipe 5 models off the board, even though they are so huge, they will almost always be visible? Just shoot them with 3-6 heavy bolters or one of the far more potent weapons that are by now out there. Anything from Bolters to Heavy Stubbers will take a serious toll on them. They are easier to kill than 5 Intercessors. And yes, RRs can delete smaller things, that is their job. They are crap at holding objectives and die to a wet wind gust. If you have such problems with RR, how do you even handle Eradicators or Aggressors? Their damage output per point is a lot higher and they don't even need to charge you, they just walk over shoot you from 12''.
2. 180 points is massive points sink if you play IG. I know for other factions that sounds ridicoulous, but with IG I look at the alternatives. I can probably get 3 Senior Officiers for the same price, that cover the same if not more Order potential, are easy to hide and have more area control. Everything above 100 points needs to seriously articulate it's existance in a Guard force, because everything besides tanks dies on first contact. So the only benefit is getting Stormtroopers as standard, having a bit more mobility and flexibility in Orders and his special skill. Yes he is a choice, but far from auto include. It's not like every IG force will have Tempestus and then they might prefer the separate detachment option, that makes them standard as well. He is certainly an option, but then you need to build the list around him, not have him in there as a too good to be true Succubus that just always works. I mean how do you want to include him into a 500pts force for example? Doesn't work, you might pull a Leman Russ in there, because that is hard to counter. But not a 180pts guy on a horse with some order potential and hardly any staying power/damage output. At 1500pts, he makes up more than 10% of the entire army still. that is basically an entire objective that I give up, because I would also be able to throw a unit in a Chimera at it and have another slogging along for the same price. At 2000 pts we might talk about a very likely inclusion, because that is the territory that you might as well say what gives, he will have something to do.
3. I don't think were are in a territory anymore where a model can explain the use of the weapons. How do Valkyries fire their rocket every turn if there are only two mounted. Same with Manticors. Where are the Bolt Pistols on Marines? How come Marines can shoot more than 4 rounds if they have no ammo on them? The answer is pretty simple. Because otherwise the game mechanic makes the model useless. Remember how Rough Riders where in 3rd? You could only use the lance once, and if you got charged first, you wouldn't even get the additional strength boost (to S5 back in the day) AND lose the lance on top of that. You know what that meant? That they were garbage. No one took them, hence GW decided at one point not to bother replacing them. Now they have functioning rules, but at the disadvantage of everyone be a secret Genestealer Cultist with a pocket dimension full of lances. That last part was sarcasm. If we were to nitpick every single detail, 40K would enter a state of unplayability, hence we need abstraction at some point at least. But yes those naughty Rough Riders are surely the worst offenders in the entire game of this. That last part was again sarcasm.
Lord Damocles wrote: The better question is how are they switching from frag to melta Lance's on the fly?
The lance head has both, and the user chooses the appropriate trigger. This probably isn’t exactly how it’s modelled, but it’s how you could do it. The secondary explosion of the untriggered charge would just add to the fun.
Alternatively, in reality there is only one charge on the end of the lance, and the choice between frag and melta effects is just a rules convenience. Yes, the player could conceivably go for melta effect on a light infantry target, when the frag effect would better reflect the real life impact of a big explodey thing capable of smashing through heavy tank armour. But why would they want to?
vipoid wrote: Advanced Eldar anti-tank weapon:
36" Heavy 1 S8 AP-4 D1d3+3
Primitive human anti-tank weapon:
48" Heavy 2 S10 AP-4 D1d3+3
Easy explanation:
One Codex was written by the day-shift rules team, and the other by the night-shift rules team. They don't talk except when passing each other in the hallway between shifts.
I wonder if the weekend team wrote the Imperial Knight rules then.
No matter which explanation you choose, the verdict is always the same: Games Workshop is a first-rate conglomerate of toy merchants with a slapdash, amateurishly-run rules writing department.
If Black Library novels were written with the same amount of talent the codexes are, Gregor Eisenhorn's name would change to Quentin for two books, then back to Greg, before being written on his tombstone as Ludvig. But no, because it turns out for the readers of those books, things like that matter.
GW could have written better rules decades ago if it actually mattered to them. But it doesn't, so they won't.
Question - I normally have little time for eceleb promo guff, but I'm hoping that someone will have proper in-hand size comparisons of the new Guard from the box before preorders end: does GW send their captive Youtubers review copies of stuff like debut army boxes, or is it just codexes and starter boxes? And if they do, when can we expect that content to go up?
Yodhrin wrote: Question - I normally have little time for eceleb promo guff, but I'm hoping that someone will have proper in-hand size comparisons of the new Guard from the box before preorders end: does GW send their captive Youtubers review copies of stuff like debut army boxes, or is it just codexes and starter boxes? And if they do, when can we expect that content to go up?
Stahly from Tale of Painters helpfully does a lot of size comparisons in his (written, imagine that) reviews. I imagine he'll have a review up on Saturday when pre-orders go up, like he did with Slaves to Darkness last weekend.
Tyel wrote: Famous "remarks made before in-codex synergies are revealed", but the field ordinance batteries look kind of sad if the rumoured 70 points price tag is correct.
Indirect howitzers hiding behind a hill all the way.
Yodhrin wrote: Question - I normally have little time for eceleb promo guff, but I'm hoping that someone will have proper in-hand size comparisons of the new Guard from the box before preorders end: does GW send their captive Youtubers review copies of stuff like debut army boxes, or is it just codexes and starter boxes? And if they do, when can we expect that content to go up?
Stahly from Tale of Painters helpfully does a lot of size comparisons in his (written, imagine that) reviews. I imagine he'll have a review up on Saturday when pre-orders go up, like he did with Slaves to Darkness last weekend.
Bureau Gnome wrote: Anybody notice the sergeant with bandolier standing next to the commissar? I'm wondering what his role and loadout will be exactly.
Belt-fed variant of the new auto gun for sergeants.
vipoid wrote: Advanced Eldar anti-tank weapon:
36" Heavy 1 S8 AP-4 D1d3+3
Primitive human anti-tank weapon:
48" Heavy 2 S10 AP-4 D1d3+3
Did Eldar skip the Industrial Revolution or something?
The Eldar weapon is more elegant. And subtle. Unlike the crude and destructive human gun.
I'm reminded of early in WW2 when German soldiers scathingly nicknamed their anti-tank guns "Door Knockers". The reason was that they couldn't actually penetrate the armour of many allied tanks, but they'd give them a little knock to let them know the Germans were around.
tneva82 wrote: New kit overpowered? Like da flyers? Tau flyers? Mork/gorkanaut? Primaris line?
Nice myth you keep spreading
You're denying it has happened though. I mean, we had literal proof of the example with Wraithknights. Sometimes GW thinks their unit might actually be broken too with how they choose to play as well.
To pretend they've actually changed because they have social media now is just denial.
The original source of that rumour literally said that the sales manager responsible for the decision had since left GW, and that they hadn't heard of anything similar happening after that.
Funny how people don't quote that part of it though.
Except it HAS happened since, or do you think it's just a coincidence how finely tuned Votaan were?
One guy leaving does not mean the attitude left. GW would be able to sell you beachfront property in Arizona.
tneva82 wrote: New kit overpowered? Like da flyers? Tau flyers? Mork/gorkanaut? Primaris line?
Nice myth you keep spreading
You're denying it has happened though. I mean, we had literal proof of the example with Wraithknights. Sometimes GW thinks their unit might actually be broken too with how they choose to play as well.
To pretend they've actually changed because they have social media now is just denial.
The claim was that all new kits are overpowered, plenty of evidence to show that they're not. Some are, but it's not a high enough % to suggest it's intentional.
Edit: I'm aware of the wraithknight thing, I know that will happen sometimes as well, but all that management team are gone as far as we know.
tneva82 wrote: New kit overpowered? Like da flyers? Tau flyers? Mork/gorkanaut? Primaris line?
Nice myth you keep spreading
You're denying it has happened though. I mean, we had literal proof of the example with Wraithknights. Sometimes GW thinks their unit might actually be broken too with how they choose to play as well.
To pretend they've actually changed because they have social media now is just denial.
The original source of that rumour literally said that the sales manager responsible for the decision had since left GW, and that they hadn't heard of anything similar happening after that.
Funny how people don't quote that part of it though.
Except it HAS happened since, or do you think it's just a coincidence how finely tuned Votaan were?
One guy leaving does not mean the attitude left. GW would be able to sell you beachfront property in Arizona.
tneva82 wrote: New kit overpowered? Like da flyers? Tau flyers? Mork/gorkanaut? Primaris line?
Nice myth you keep spreading
You're denying it has happened though. I mean, we had literal proof of the example with Wraithknights. Sometimes GW thinks their unit might actually be broken too with how they choose to play as well.
To pretend they've actually changed because they have social media now is just denial.
The claim was that all new kits are overpowered, plenty of evidence to show that they're not. Some are, but it's not a high enough % to suggest it's intentional.
Edit: I'm aware of the wraithknight thing, I know that will happen sometimes as well, but all that management team are gone as far as we know.
This guy is willing to cherrypick the part of a source that supports his argument while ignoring everything else from the same source that disagrees with him.
He's not here to debate in anything remotely resembling good faith. He's here because the tinfoil wrapped around his head doesn't allow rational thoughts inside.
This guy is willing to cherrypick the part of a source that supports his argument while ignoring everything else from the same source that disagrees with him.
He's not here to debate in anything remotely resembling good faith. He's here because the tinfoil wrapped around his head doesn't allow rational thoughts inside.
Ah yes, the same source that ended up leaving GW anyway? Yeah, businesses never return to old practices, as though they left to begin with.
This guy is willing to cherrypick the part of a source that supports his argument while ignoring everything else from the same source that disagrees with him.
He's not here to debate in anything remotely resembling good faith. He's here because the tinfoil wrapped around his head doesn't allow rational thoughts inside.
Ah yes, the same source that ended up leaving GW anyway? Yeah, businesses never return to old practices, as though they left to begin with.
Have they made him really big to make up for his almost total lack of character?
He found himself a nice rock to stand on, which helps his height immensely. Of course we can't rule out that he is also taller than other people. GW has had instances of late where important people are inexplicably taller than the rabble around them, see Horus Heresy for instance.
oni wrote: I am failing to see how Parade Drill is a good thing.
2 shots for standing still, but -1 to hit if you move in your next movement phase.
Would someone please enlighten me?
Two shots at full range. It promotes static defensive play with long-range shooting. Would pair well with Heirloom weapons for extra range, or with Brutal strength to regain mobility.
"Your next shooting phase" in this context is the shooting phase immediately following the movement phase where you didn't move.
It means if you don't move in the movement phase, the guns become Heavy 2 during the shooting phase that immediately follows but then goes right back to being rapid fire 1 for the subsequent charge and combat phases, in case that matters.
Captain Joystick wrote: "Your next shooting phase" in this context is the shooting phase immediately following the movement phase where you didn't move.
It means if you don't move in the movement phase, the guns become Heavy 2 during the shooting phase that immediately follows but then goes right back to being rapid fire 1 for the subsequent charge and combat phases, in case that matters.
Oh yeah, which means no synergy with Brutal strength. Heirloom weapons it is.
Not from a balance point of view, it's just a stupid concept that these guys are carrying 3-4 different weapons and somehow managing to swap between a two-handed rifle and a lance in the middle of a charge.
What you are failing to grasp with this last point is that this game is abstract. It is also not a wargame. These are game pieces that people give attributes to.
Where does the 12ft melta lance go while they fire an assault rifle 2 handed whilst riding horses at full pelt?
Lord Damocles wrote: The better question is how are they switching from frag to melta Lance's on the fly?
Alternatively, in reality there is only one charge on the end of the lance, and the choice between frag and melta effects is just a rules convenience. Yes, the player could conceivably go for melta effect on a light infantry target, when the frag effect would better reflect the real life impact of a big explodey thing capable of smashing through heavy tank armour. But why would they want to?
We can abstract a frag charge as a melta charge, but meanwhile having a box mag rather than a sickle mag for your boltgun requires a separation of rules and models...
Perhaps. In which case "Next" should not be in the sentence if the effect is intended to expire in the following phase.
I've seen rules use "Until the end of the next [...] Phase", typically meaning the effect would expire in your opponent turn or if the effect was trigger in your opponent's turn it would expire in your turn. I cannot think of an instance where an effect that triggers in your turn with the verbiage "your next [...] phase" didn't mean in the subsequent game round.
oni wrote: Perhaps. In which case "Next" should not be in the sentence if the effect is intended to expire in the following phase.
I've seen rules use "Until the end of the next [...] Phase", typically meaning the effect would expire in your opponent turn or if the effect was trigger in your opponent's turn it would expire in your turn. I cannot think of an instance where an effect that triggers in your turn with the verbiage "your next [...] phase" didn't mean in the subsequent game round.
I can see where the confusion comes from, since some stratagems do like to say an effect lasts until the start of your next phase of whatever type the stratagem goes off in in order to indicate it lasts an entire battle round from the trigger point - but this is more like simple rapid actions such as the Stormsurge's stabilizing anchors - those start doing the action at the start of the movement phase and complete successfully when the shooting phase rolls around so long as they aren't interrupted by the stormsurge moving (or something happening in the Tau psychic phase... somehow.)
This just in from Mordian Glory on his Discord server:
Hammer of the Emperor is gone.
But returns under a different name as a regimental doctrine that takes up the place of 2 doctrines.
6s on the hit roll will still auto wound, but those also count as 6s for the wound roll, so essentially Snipers with bonuses for 6s on the wound roll will get them when Hammer of The Emperor procs.
Overall, MG feels that this will be less important as we get fewer # of attacks overall and that regimental doctrines are better.
I know that GW wants to highlight the new kits so we all go FOMO next week, but I find ironic that in the article that talks about how the new codex will allow for mixed regiments there are only nu-Cadians in sight. One would think that they could have used some Scions, or Krieg on the background.
I'm not gonna buy him, but I don't hate him.
), and Cadians aren't the issue. The fact that he's not _anything_ and doesn't match the current range is a design flaw, however. The old Solar on foot did match the range at the time- a lot of the officers were in gold breastplates and over-wrought.
.
