Yeah, that'd be the "Armoured Spearhead" ROB. Land Raiders option as dedicated transports for all, Predators as troops, Sicarans as elite, HQ must be a single Sicaran or Predator. Neat.
Can you imagine the cost of doing an Armoured Spearhead ROB-based army without the new plastic kits? I can totally see how these plastic kits are a big deal for the game. Armies which only rich whales could afford earlier suddenly become an option for mere mortals.
ImAGeek wrote: Forge World releases go up at 10am on Fridays, UK time.
Thanks. I thought that it had changed to bring it in line with the GW releases, I must have dreamt it
I've just seen that a few of the Heresy releases are in Wayland's current sale, including the ranged Leviathan, Sicaran and Age Of Darkness box. I can't help but think that it's a worring sign for the health of the Heresy game as a whole?
I'm hoping that it is purely a Wayland cash flow issue, rather than an indicator of low sales. Discounting GW models so close to their release is almost unheard of.
ImAGeek wrote: Forge World releases go up at 10am on Fridays, UK time.
Thanks. I thought that it had changed to bring it in line with the GW releases, I must have dreamt it
I've just seen that a few of the Heresy releases are in Wayland's current sale, including the ranged Leviathan, Sicaran and Age Of Darkness box. I can't help but think that it's a worring sign for the health of the Heresy game as a whole?
I'm hoping that it is purely a Wayland cash flow issue, rather than an indicator of low sales. Discounting GW models so close to their release is almost unheard of.
Very occasionally they go up on a Saturday if they’re specialist games products that align with the specialist games releases on the Saturday, but it’s not been very often.
True. As I said, with the right discount it’s still a fairly decent price, especially given we can have four to a squadron. Just wouldn’t have said no to it being a wee bit cheaper!
Squadrons of 4 is a bit tricky given they have to all fire at the same target (excepting odd sponson or defensive weapons at nearest infantry).
2 squadrons of 4 tho, that might be interesting! and under 1000pts for most builds!
This is 30K/40K. One or two Predators would be fine. Leave squadrons of four for Epic.
If the Doc wants to run Ironwing (or another Legion's equivalent), let the guy do so - 'tis his army (and wallet), after all.
Because next year we get Epic 30K. I will be doing squadrons of Predators in that game where it is feasible. On what kind of table are you going to use a squadron of Predators anyway? Planet Bowling Ball? It just doesn´t make sense.
True. As I said, with the right discount it’s still a fairly decent price, especially given we can have four to a squadron. Just wouldn’t have said no to it being a wee bit cheaper!
Squadrons of 4 is a bit tricky given they have to all fire at the same target (excepting odd sponson or defensive weapons at nearest infantry).
2 squadrons of 4 tho, that might be interesting! and under 1000pts for most builds!
This is 30K/40K. One or two Predators would be fine. Leave squadrons of four for Epic.
If the Doc wants to run Ironwing (or another Legion's equivalent), let the guy do so - 'tis his army (and wallet), after all.
Because next year we get Epic 30K. I will be doing squadrons of Predators in that game where it is feasible. On what kind of table are you going to use a squadron of Predators anyway? Planet Bowling Ball? It just doesn´t make sense.
Buddy, why are you trying to tell them how to 30k/40k?
ImAGeek wrote: Forge World releases go up at 10am on Fridays, UK time.
Thanks. I thought that it had changed to bring it in line with the GW releases, I must have dreamt it
I've just seen that a few of the Heresy releases are in Wayland's current sale, including the ranged Leviathan, Sicaran and Age Of Darkness box. I can't help but think that it's a worring sign for the health of the Heresy game as a whole?
I'm hoping that it is purely a Wayland cash flow issue, rather than an indicator of low sales. Discounting GW models so close to their release is almost unheard of.
Very occasionally they go up on a Saturday if they’re specialist games products that align with the specialist games releases on the Saturday, but it’s not been very often.
It's real easy to determine which day. If it's on gw site saturday, fw site friday.
True. As I said, with the right discount it’s still a fairly decent price, especially given we can have four to a squadron. Just wouldn’t have said no to it being a wee bit cheaper!
Squadrons of 4 is a bit tricky given they have to all fire at the same target (excepting odd sponson or defensive weapons at nearest infantry).
2 squadrons of 4 tho, that might be interesting! and under 1000pts for most builds!
This is 30K/40K. One or two Predators would be fine. Leave squadrons of four for Epic.
If the Doc wants to run Ironwing (or another Legion's equivalent), let the guy do so - 'tis his army (and wallet), after all.
Because next year we get Epic 30K. I will be doing squadrons of Predators in that game where it is feasible. On what kind of table are you going to use a squadron of Predators anyway? Planet Bowling Ball? It just doesn´t make sense.
Buddy, why are you trying to tell them how to 30k/40k?
Right?
8x4' urban would provide a very interesting game and I'd play against the cranky Ork any day.
ImAGeek wrote: Forge World releases go up at 10am on Fridays, UK time.
Thanks. I thought that it had changed to bring it in line with the GW releases, I must have dreamt it
I've just seen that a few of the Heresy releases are in Wayland's current sale, including the ranged Leviathan, Sicaran and Age Of Darkness box. I can't help but think that it's a worring sign for the health of the Heresy game as a whole?
I'm hoping that it is purely a Wayland cash flow issue, rather than an indicator of low sales. Discounting GW models so close to their release is almost unheard of.
Very occasionally they go up on a Saturday if they’re specialist games products that align with the specialist games releases on the Saturday, but it’s not been very often.
It's real easy to determine which day. If it's on gw site saturday, fw site friday.
Not always, which was my point (although like I said, it’s very rarely different). Very occasionally there have been Forge World releases on a Saturday alongside GW releases for the same game on the GW site. It’s usually been Blood Bowl if it happens, maybe Necromunda too.
ImAGeek wrote: Forge World releases go up at 10am on Fridays, UK time.
Thanks. I thought that it had changed to bring it in line with the GW releases, I must have dreamt it
I've just seen that a few of the Heresy releases are in Wayland's current sale, including the ranged Leviathan, Sicaran and Age Of Darkness box. I can't help but think that it's a worring sign for the health of the Heresy game as a whole?
I'm hoping that it is purely a Wayland cash flow issue, rather than an indicator of low sales. Discounting GW models so close to their release is almost unheard of.
It might be a case of too much stuff launching at once. Most people probably haven't even finished painting their AoD box let alone all the releases since then.
ImAGeek wrote: Forge World releases go up at 10am on Fridays, UK time.
Thanks. I thought that it had changed to bring it in line with the GW releases, I must have dreamt it
I've just seen that a few of the Heresy releases are in Wayland's current sale, including the ranged Leviathan, Sicaran and Age Of Darkness box. I can't help but think that it's a worring sign for the health of the Heresy game as a whole?
I'm hoping that it is purely a Wayland cash flow issue, rather than an indicator of low sales. Discounting GW models so close to their release is almost unheard of.
Very occasionally they go up on a Saturday if they’re specialist games products that align with the specialist games releases on the Saturday, but it’s not been very often.
It's real easy to determine which day. If it's on gw site saturday, fw site friday.
Not always, which was my point (although like I said, it’s very rarely different). Very occasionally there have been Forge World releases on a Saturday alongside GW releases for the same game on the GW site. It’s usually been Blood Bowl if it happens, maybe Necromunda too.
Care to provide resin example? Note dices, plastic models etc are gw releases so gw site. Never seen fw site get models saturday.
It might be a case of too much stuff launching at once. Most people probably haven't even finished painting their AoD box let alone all the releases since then.
I actually suspect it's the opposite.
The launched lacked numerous fundamental kits, and plenty of what was there immediately sold out and was unavailable for months. Fully half of the legions are assault oriented, with at least a quarter being being "viewed" as dedicated CC forces. Launching the game without a despoiler kit / despoiler upgrade sprue for tac squads is madness. Anyone who wanted to play World Eaters, Raven Guard, Space Wolves, Night Lords, or Blood Angels wasn't given the tools to properly begin a project for those armies. Those wanting to play Sons of Horus, Emperor's Children, or several other options fared little better. Anyone wanting to play these armies can't get even begin projects including their most iconic units because the tools nearly don't exist without dumping money into the secondary market. There are technically forge world options, but then you pay even more insane prices for poorly cast stumpy munchkins.
I do applaud the fairly rapid pace at which they're getting vehicles out. But not everyone is going to run, or even want, dreads and predators. But I can confidently say every player is going to want a squad of dudes kitted out for close combat. And ontop of that almost every Legion has legion-unique CC oriented squad built on the idea of veterans. Launching the game without a despoiler kit / despoiler upgrade sprue for tac squads is madness.
I suspect that new blood is more likely to drift away, or not even hop in to begin with, when such fundamental kits are missing.
tneva82 wrote: Care to provide resin example? Note dices, plastic models etc are gw releases so gw site. Never seen fw site get models saturday.
The BB Norsca Star Players were released by FW on the same Saturday as the plastic Team box was released by GW.
Thanks, I don’t know any actual examples off the top of my head. I just know it’s happened a couple of times because it’s not their normal pattern. Stands out.
It might be a case of too much stuff launching at once. Most people probably haven't even finished painting their AoD box let alone all the releases since then.
I actually suspect it's the opposite.
The launched lacked numerous fundamental kits, and plenty of what was there immediately sold out and was unavailable for months. Fully half of the legions are assault oriented, with at least a quarter being being "viewed" as dedicated CC forces. Launching the game without a despoiler kit / despoiler upgrade sprue for tac squads is madness. Anyone who wanted to play World Eaters, Raven Guard, Space Wolves, Night Lords, or Blood Angels wasn't given the tools to properly begin a project for those armies. Those wanting to play Sons of Horus, Emperor's Children, or several other options fared little better. Anyone wanting to play these armies can't get even begin projects including their most iconic units because the tools nearly don't exist without dumping money into the secondary market. There are technically forge world options, but then you pay even more insane prices for poorly cast stumpy munchkins.
I do applaud the fairly rapid pace at which they're getting vehicles out. But not everyone is going to run, or even want, dreads and predators. But I can confidently say every player is going to want a squad of dudes kitted out for close combat. And ontop of that almost every Legion has legion-unique CC oriented squad built on the idea of veterans. Launching the game without a despoiler kit / despoiler upgrade sprue for tac squads is madness.
I suspect that new blood is more likely to drift away, or not even hop in to begin with, when such fundamental kits are missing.
As a BA player who wants his army's Assault Squads to match the scale of his tac & support squads, I wholeheartedly agree. HH desperately needs more plastic infantry kits. I've postponed building my AoD box because I'm still waiting for Assault Infantry options. I've bought my Liber and even have the rulebook as epub, but I'm not going to be even close to playing the game until we get more kits to fill the Troop slots with. Got Elite & Heavy Support slots filled to the brim already, but those do not an army make..
tneva82 wrote: Care to provide resin example? Note dices, plastic models etc are gw releases so gw site. Never seen fw site get models saturday.
The BB Norsca Star Players were released by FW on the same Saturday as the plastic Team box was released by GW.
The Custodes Ares gunship for AI went up for pre-order on a Saturday as well, to coincide with the release of the AI 30k book and supporting items on the main site. It happens whenever the FW resin pre-order coincides with an SG Saturday pre-order of the same game type on the main site.
At any other time the FW pre-order will be on a friday.
ImAGeek wrote: Forge World releases go up at 10am on Fridays, UK time.
Thanks. I thought that it had changed to bring it in line with the GW releases, I must have dreamt it
I've just seen that a few of the Heresy releases are in Wayland's current sale, including the ranged Leviathan, Sicaran and Age Of Darkness box. I can't help but think that it's a worring sign for the health of the Heresy game as a whole?
I'm hoping that it is purely a Wayland cash flow issue, rather than an indicator of low sales. Discounting GW models so close to their release is almost unheard of.
I think you are being unduly negative. It’s a single independent website, it’s only 5-10% more than standard UK independent discounts and it is for *one week only*.
tneva82 wrote: Care to provide resin example? Note dices, plastic models etc are gw releases so gw site. Never seen fw site get models saturday.
The BB Norsca Star Players were released by FW on the same Saturday as the plastic Team box was released by GW.
The Custodes Ares gunship for AI went up for pre-order on a Saturday as well, to coincide with the release of the AI 30k book and supporting items on the main site. It happens whenever the FW resin pre-order coincides with an SG Saturday pre-order of the same game type on the main site.
At any other time the FW pre-order will be on a friday.
ImAGeek wrote: Forge World releases go up at 10am on Fridays, UK time.
Thanks. I thought that it had changed to bring it in line with the GW releases, I must have dreamt it
I've just seen that a few of the Heresy releases are in Wayland's current sale, including the ranged Leviathan, Sicaran and Age Of Darkness box. I can't help but think that it's a worring sign for the health of the Heresy game as a whole?
I'm hoping that it is purely a Wayland cash flow issue, rather than an indicator of low sales. Discounting GW models so close to their release is almost unheard of.
I think you are being unduly negative. It’s a single independent website, it’s only 5-10% more than standard UK independent discounts and it is for *one week only*.
Hoping that it is a sign of a Wayland Games cash flow problem instead of an indication of low sales is unduly negative?
I see it differently. This hobby of ours has been a big part of my life since the late 1980's, I want all of GW's game systems to be successful, even the ones that I have little interest in (like Blood Bowl for instance).
It's not "negative" to see certain signs and engage in conversation about them.
I get that a lot of people on this site like to see other posters in a binary "positive" or "negative" light, but lets please leave those sort of labels for Dakka's genuine trolls.
It might be a case of too much stuff launching at once. Most people probably haven't even finished painting their AoD box let alone all the releases since then.
I actually suspect it's the opposite.
The launched lacked numerous fundamental kits, and plenty of what was there immediately sold out and was unavailable for months. Fully half of the legions are assault oriented, with at least a quarter being being "viewed" as dedicated CC forces. Launching the game without a despoiler kit / despoiler upgrade sprue for tac squads is madness. Anyone who wanted to play World Eaters, Raven Guard, Space Wolves, Night Lords, or Blood Angels wasn't given the tools to properly begin a project for those armies. Those wanting to play Sons of Horus, Emperor's Children, or several other options fared little better. Anyone wanting to play these armies can't get even begin projects including their most iconic units because the tools nearly don't exist without dumping money into the secondary market. There are technically forge world options, but then you pay even more insane prices for poorly cast stumpy munchkins.
I do applaud the fairly rapid pace at which they're getting vehicles out. But not everyone is going to run, or even want, dreads and predators. But I can confidently say every player is going to want a squad of dudes kitted out for close combat. And ontop of that almost every Legion has legion-unique CC oriented squad built on the idea of veterans. Launching the game without a despoiler kit / despoiler upgrade sprue for tac squads is madness.
I suspect that new blood is more likely to drift away, or not even hop in to begin with, when such fundamental kits are missing.
I've been busy with work, but as a NL player I wasn't motivated to make time to work my through the AoD box due to a lack of Legion upgrade options, and things being out of stock almost constantly haven't helped. I'm still chugging working on my NL, but with so many things missing from options it's been a bit of a slog. At least I have good reason to take my time and customize my units with Trophies of Judgement in the meantime I guess.
It might be a case of too much stuff launching at once. Most people probably haven't even finished painting their AoD box let alone all the releases since then.
I actually suspect it's the opposite.
<snip>
I've been busy with work, but as a NL player I wasn't motivated to make time to work my through the AoD box due to a lack of Legion upgrade options, and things being out of stock almost constantly haven't helped. I'm still chugging working on my NL, but with so many things missing from options it's been a bit of a slog. At least I have good reason to take my time and customize my units with Trophies of Judgement in the meantime I guess.
Aye, I made that post because it's exactly how I feel. My project is World Eaters and I've quickly grown tired of getting my 'baseline' of tacs set up. I want to keep going but why bother? The most basic thing I need - CC poses and arms - isn't available. I'm not going to dump hundreds of extras dollars into predators, dreads, land raiders, and heavy weapon sprues when I haven't even been provided with the most basic part of my fething army.
It might be a case of too much stuff launching at once. Most people probably haven't even finished painting their AoD box let alone all the releases since then.
I actually suspect it's the opposite.
The launched lacked numerous fundamental kits, and plenty of what was there immediately sold out and was unavailable for months. Fully half of the legions are assault oriented, with at least a quarter being being "viewed" as dedicated CC forces. Launching the game without a despoiler kit / despoiler upgrade sprue for tac squads is madness. Anyone who wanted to play World Eaters, Raven Guard, Space Wolves, Night Lords, or Blood Angels wasn't given the tools to properly begin a project for those armies. Those wanting to play Sons of Horus, Emperor's Children, or several other options fared little better. Anyone wanting to play these armies can't get even begin projects including their most iconic units because the tools nearly don't exist without dumping money into the secondary market. There are technically forge world options, but then you pay even more insane prices for poorly cast stumpy munchkins.
I do applaud the fairly rapid pace at which they're getting vehicles out. But not everyone is going to run, or even want, dreads and predators. But I can confidently say every player is going to want a squad of dudes kitted out for close combat. And ontop of that almost every Legion has legion-unique CC oriented squad built on the idea of veterans. Launching the game without a despoiler kit / despoiler upgrade sprue for tac squads is madness.
I suspect that new blood is more likely to drift away, or not even hop in to begin with, when such fundamental kits are missing.
I think GW's plan is that everyone who wants World Eaters, Raven Guard, Space Wolves, Night Lords, or Blood Angels would come and buy all the shooty options with AoD, tanks, dreads... then turn around and also buy all the CC options when they come out in a few months.
Melee option isn't even quaranteed to be upgrade sprue with gw's "this bit goes to that bit and no other" attitude. Zero surprise if waiting with unassembled tacs ends up waste of time
It might be a case of too much stuff launching at once. Most people probably haven't even finished painting their AoD box let alone all the releases since then.
I actually suspect it's the opposite.
<snip>
I've been busy with work, but as a NL player I wasn't motivated to make time to work my through the AoD box due to a lack of Legion upgrade options, and things being out of stock almost constantly haven't helped. I'm still chugging working on my NL, but with so many things missing from options it's been a bit of a slog. At least I have good reason to take my time and customize my units with Trophies of Judgement in the meantime I guess.
Aye, I made that post because it's exactly how I feel. My project is World Eaters and I've quickly grown tired of getting my 'baseline' of tacs set up. I want to keep going but why bother? The most basic thing I need - CC poses and arms - isn't available. I'm not going to dump hundreds of extras dollars into predators, dreads, land raiders, and heavy weapon sprues when I haven't even been provided with the most basic part of my fething army.
If the MkVI had a chainsword and bolt pistol in hands I'd at least be able to save those up for Despoiler squads while I do support squads with the kits but they didn't give us any held chainswords and all the pistols are holstered.
I don't hate the MkVI kit, but the lack of options that are on their unit entry makes it feel like we're missing a sprue for the kit.
I think GW's plan is that everyone who wants World Eaters, Raven Guard, Space Wolves, Night Lords, or Blood Angels would come and buy all the shooty options with AoD, tanks, dreads... then turn around and also buy all the CC options when they come out in a few months.
I can't speak for everyone but Night Lords need both sets of options. A lot of their bonuses trigger off pinning or making units flee so some shooting is needed, plus it helps thin units so you out number before you charge in.
That said, right now terminators, dreadnoughts, FW kits and tacticals with chain bayonets (regular bayonets pair well with A Talent for Murder as well, but shred is worth it) are pretty much my melee sources right now.
tneva82 wrote: Melee option isn't even quaranteed to be upgrade sprue with gw's "this bit goes to that bit and no other" attitude. Zero surprise if waiting with unassembled tacs ends up waste of time
As mentioned a few pages back, I personally hope that the melee option is NOT an upgrade sprue, I'd rather have a melee option with more dynamic / advancing poses than what comes with the regular tacs.
If people bought AoD hoping for an upgrade sprue to make them melee, I'd say that was a bit of a gamble.
tneva82 wrote: Melee option isn't even quaranteed to be upgrade sprue with gw's "this bit goes to that bit and no other" attitude. Zero surprise if waiting with unassembled tacs ends up waste of time
As mentioned a few pages back, I personally hope that the melee option is NOT an upgrade sprue, I'd rather have a melee option with more dynamic / advancing poses than what comes with the regular tacs.
If people bought AoD hoping for an upgrade sprue to make them melee, I'd say that was a bit of a gamble.
I have no expectations, just waiting for releases. Already squirrelled some money away to get one of each of the weapon kits coming out this weekend just in case they don't get back in for a while. Least I can work towards my goal of having units of all the weapons.
There's a ton of poses available across the appropriately equipped kits
Intercessors was exactly my thought when AoD came out and the rumors had mentioned a three size set of starters like 40k had - maybe we'll see melee marines in this supposed starter? It would give people a reason to buy even if they already have the AoD box.
It gives me hope. This is coming from someone that it a modeler first.
With the variety of poses I have for MkX Tacticus armour is perfect. It just took 4+ years to happen and I don't wish the same for 30k!
I probably have each pose available(available across monopose & not kit) of armour in each role(regular intercessors, assault, & hellblasters). If they follow the established paradigm I'm ok with the design direction.
It might be a case of too much stuff launching at once. Most people probably haven't even finished painting their AoD box let alone all the releases since then.
I actually suspect it's the opposite.
The launched lacked numerous fundamental kits, and plenty of what was there immediately sold out and was unavailable for months. Fully half of the legions are assault oriented, with at least a quarter being being "viewed" as dedicated CC forces. Launching the game without a despoiler kit / despoiler upgrade sprue for tac squads is madness. Anyone who wanted to play World Eaters, Raven Guard, Space Wolves, Night Lords, or Blood Angels wasn't given the tools to properly begin a project for those armies. Those wanting to play Sons of Horus, Emperor's Children, or several other options fared little better. Anyone wanting to play these armies can't get even begin projects including their most iconic units because the tools nearly don't exist without dumping money into the secondary market. There are technically forge world options, but then you pay even more insane prices for poorly cast stumpy munchkins.
I do applaud the fairly rapid pace at which they're getting vehicles out. But not everyone is going to run, or even want, dreads and predators. But I can confidently say every player is going to want a squad of dudes kitted out for close combat. And ontop of that almost every Legion has legion-unique CC oriented squad built on the idea of veterans. Launching the game without a despoiler kit / despoiler upgrade sprue for tac squads is madness.
I suspect that new blood is more likely to drift away, or not even hop in to begin with, when such fundamental kits are missing.
As a BA player who wants his army's Assault Squads to match the scale of his tac & support squads, I wholeheartedly agree. HH desperately needs more plastic infantry kits. I've postponed building my AoD box because I'm still waiting for Assault Infantry options. I've bought my Liber and even have the rulebook as epub, but I'm not going to be even close to playing the game until we get more kits to fill the Troop slots with. Got Elite & Heavy Support slots filled to the brim already, but those do not an army make..
Yep. This is my biggest gripe so far- no CC at all. No way I'm spending close to $100 for 5 resin troops. Nope. My army languishes.
I'd expect if they do make a melee squad it will be the basics- pistols and chainswords, with a power fist, plasma pistol, and power sword for the sergeant. Then a weapon pack with say a left and right handed version of all the various pistols and special melee weapons, basically like the melee weapon sets in resin, but in plastic and probably 2 copies of the sprue in a box.
MajorWesJanson wrote: I'd expect if they do make a melee squad it will be the basics- pistols and chainswords, with a power fist, plasma pistol, and power sword for the sergeant. Then a weapon pack with say a left and right handed version of all the various pistols and special melee weapons, basically like the melee weapon sets in resin, but in plastic and probably 2 copies of the sprue in a box.
I don’t think anyone would have a problem with that.
The biggest part of a melee squad is going to be the marine scale and also the poses. There’s only do much you can do with braced tactical legs and arms meant to be holding boogers. Also the pistols and chain swords themselves. Even with 3rd party chain axes I’ve hit a road block in that I don’t have any more bolt pistols to use, and this is after tearing up some ancient assault marines to cannibalize theirs.
MajorWesJanson wrote: I'd expect if they do make a melee squad it will be the basics- pistols and chainswords, with a power fist, plasma pistol, and power sword for the sergeant. Then a weapon pack with say a left and right handed version of all the various pistols and special melee weapons, basically like the melee weapon sets in resin, but in plastic and probably 2 copies of the sprue in a box.
There was a rumour that a possible Assault Squad kit would be coming with the same "upgrade sprue" as what's present in the MKVI Tactical Squad kit. Doesn't sound too far fetched to me tbh. I reckon we'll get one sprue with 5 poses, 5 sets of bolt pistols & chainswords and that same upgrade sprue, and these duplicated so there's 10 or 20 models in the kit. Jump packs and Assault weapon options would then be coming as an upgrade kit.
hotsauceman1 wrote: I would just like different arms for the none bolter models for MK6
In that case, did you know that the Missile Launcher / Heavy Bolter upgrade kit for the MKVI comes with spare arms, which you can use to make assault marines with? Obviously you'd need spare CC weapons but yeh
MajorWesJanson wrote: I'd expect if they do make a melee squad it will be the basics- pistols and chainswords, with a power fist, plasma pistol, and power sword for the sergeant. Then a weapon pack with say a left and right handed version of all the various pistols and special melee weapons, basically like the melee weapon sets in resin, but in plastic and probably 2 copies of the sprue in a box.
There was a rumour that a possible Assault Squad kit would be coming with the same "upgrade sprue" as what's present in the MKVI Tactical Squad kit. Doesn't sound too far fetched to me tbh. I reckon we'll get one sprue with 5 poses, 5 sets of bolt pistols & chainswords and that same upgrade sprue, and these duplicated so there's 10 or 20 models in the kit. Jump packs and Assault weapon options would then be coming as an upgrade kit.
Very few things on the upgrade sprue are usable for the Assault Squad.
But was there no mention about it being another book after ones we already know, that will include updated rules for him and other options from the PDF? I swear I read it somewhere.
There was mention in the PDF that at some point Knights Errant would show up in a future campaign book. The Liber books are the Codexes of HH, campaign books will be similar to the Black Books from past editions of HH.
Gert wrote: There was mention in the PDF that at some point Knights Errant would show up in a future campaign book.
So being in a campaign books would likely mean that they (and others there) will be an addition to the existing forces rather than a separate force list?
I mean the Knights Errant were never an army to begin with. They were units with Agent of the Emperor which meant you could take them in a Loyalist army.
Gert wrote: I mean the Knights Errant were never an army to begin with. They were units with Agent of the Emperor which meant you could take them in a Loyalist army.
Yeah, I simply thought that they could expand them from, if I remember correctly, single HQ characters, to the small strike force akin to 40k Deathwatch (especially from the times it was introduced = with limited amount of elite units available).
These mighty warriors scan the battlefield looking for particularly worthy targets. Once an enemy unit fulfils the essential criteria to count as a ‘Nemesis’ unit the Custodes can engage, gaining +1 Attacks, +1 to Charge Rolls, and never needing to roll higher than 4+ to score a Hit – unless that foe is a Primarch.
Except if you read the Nemesis rule itself it says:
A nemesis unit is defined as any enemy unit that fulfills at least one of the following conditions:
* The unit include one or more models with at least one of the following Unit Types or Unit Sub-Types: Primarch....
These mighty warriors scan the battlefield looking for particularly worthy targets. Once an enemy unit fulfils the essential criteria to count as a ‘Nemesis’ unit the Custodes can engage, gaining +1 Attacks, +1 to Charge Rolls, and never needing to roll higher than 4+ to score a Hit – unless that foe is a Primarch.
Except if you read the Nemesis rule itself it says:
A nemesis unit is defined as any enemy unit that fulfills at least one of the following conditions:
* The unit include one or more models with at least one of the following Unit Types or Unit Sub-Types: Primarch....
There might be other rule interactions with Nemesis, but with the way Liber Mechanicum turned out who knows.
Rihgu wrote: I'm guessing it means you don't have a minimum roll for success to hit Primarchs, but get the other bonuses.
That was how i understood it.
Same. Primarchs being hard to auto-wound is about what I'd expect.
While the Imperalis book is good news, I am hoping that we'll see the rest of the legions see shoulder pads and head options soon. I don't want a repeat of the Cataphractii shoulder pad situation.
That IS his Death Guard armor with added Agent of the Sigilite marks. Flight of the Eisenstein describes the eagle cuirass he wears and his armor being unpainted.
Reaction: "you can't shoot me and you waste your attacks" is definitely good game design and something that needs to be in 30k. Remind me why we have the awkward reaction system and not a proper alternating activation game?
Aecus Decimus wrote: Reaction: "you can't shoot me and you waste your attacks" is definitely good game design and something that needs to be in 30k. Remind me why we have the awkward reaction system and not a proper alternating activation game?
That same mechanic exists in other AA/skirmish games like Infinity already. Nobody has a huge problem with it.
Player A moves
Player B moves
Player A shoots
Player B shoots
Player A charges
Player B charges
Player A fights
Player B fights
It isn't straight alternating activation, but lets both players react to the table situation, and keeps them both involved.
Maybe a little mixing up would be necessary (I don't play 40k/30k). Maybe combining charging and fighting, or making charges a part of the player's movement phase.
I spoke to Andy Chambers on FB and he wanted to bring AA into 40k editions ago, but any AA system is going to require a complete rework of everything because it changes the entire game's flow, and then it still isn't a panacea as AA comes with it's own problems.
I think when we get down to it, most people want AA because it's different and they think different will fix the game it's applied to instead of change the issues the game faces.
My biggest issue with the game is the sheer amount of time that you're not doing anything, or making saving rolls. AA would fix that. But it does come with its own issues, and a straight AA can be very boring.
These mighty warriors scan the battlefield looking for particularly worthy targets. Once an enemy unit fulfils the essential criteria to count as a ‘Nemesis’ unit the Custodes can engage, gaining +1 Attacks, +1 to Charge Rolls, and never needing to roll higher than 4+ to score a Hit – unless that foe is a Primarch.
Except if you read the Nemesis rule itself it says:
A nemesis unit is defined as any enemy unit that fulfills at least one of the following conditions:
* The unit include one or more models with at least one of the following Unit Types or Unit Sub-Types: Primarch....
As has been pointed out, this isn't necessarily a contradiction - the first point is talking about the effect of the rule, while the second is referring to what the rule might affect to some extent - there's nothing requiring all units that could be caught by it to suffer the same effect.
TheBestBucketHead wrote: My biggest issue with the game is the sheer amount of time that you're not doing anything, or making saving rolls. AA would fix that. But it does come with its own issues, and a straight AA can be very boring.
Reactions and Stratagems were both approaches to trying to solve that but then I saw people complaining that they need to pay too much attention all the time and need to have their brains always on what their opponent is doing like it's a bad thing.
Now you can argue execution of those ideas, but they did try and break up the passive waiting game.
ClockworkZion wrote: I think when we get down to it, most people want AA because it's different and they think different will fix the game it's applied to instead of change the issues the game faces.
No, we want AA because many of 40k's issues are direct consequences of IGOUGO and IGOUGO is inherently a bad mechanic. There's a reason the rest of the industry has abandoned it to the trash pile of history.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ClockworkZion wrote: Reactions and Stratagems were both approaches to trying to solve that but then I saw people complaining that they need to pay too much attention all the time and need to have their brains always on what their opponent is doing like it's a bad thing.
The attention problem with stratagems is not with paying attention to the game, it's that the thing you have to pay attention to is a completely off-table pseudo-CCG. You can't look at the game state and watch what is happening, you have to remember all the off-table buffs and debuffs that could suddenly be applied. And because it's such a horribly over-complicated system you have to watch carefully to make sure your opponent isn't cheating. A true AA system wouldn't have this problem since everything is still on the table and composed of the same basic actions that all units take.
(Granted, this is less severe for reactions since there are fewer of them but the reaction system makes up for it with the very poor scaling.)
ClockworkZion wrote: I saw people complaining that they need to pay too much attention all the time and need to have their brains always on what their opponent is doing like it's a bad thing.
The only complaints I see about stratagems is the sheer amount of them. Listen to podcasts with guys like Nick Nanavati, who does nothing but travel to 40k tournaments and talk about it on youtube in his free time, hear a strat and go "huh, what does that do? Oh, I forgot that army could do that".
These top tier killers can be deployed to take out key targets – no matter what the enemy’s individual strengths or defences are. The recently revealed Clade Vanus operative is one of the seven different brain-washed executioners you can field in an Imperium Army.*
7 (or even 8) Clades? I thought there were only 6! :O
These top tier killers can be deployed to take out key targets – no matter what the enemy’s individual strengths or defences are. The recently revealed Clade Vanus operative is one of the seven different brain-washed executioners you can field in an Imperium Army.*
7 (or even 8) Clades? I thought there were only 6! :O
I think that 6 we know of are just the big/main ones. It is probable that there is some unknown number of minor clades that have some very niche specialities.
Got my Lucius and praetor order in. Pleasantly surprised by the price, even better when I found £50 sat in my PayPal wallet that I'd forgotten about. Winner.
queen_annes_revenge wrote: Got my Lucius and praetor order in. Pleasantly surprised by the price, even better when I found £50 sat in my PayPal wallet that I'd forgotten about. Winner.
Interested to see if they release a new Sanguinius model when they release his book, or bring back his diorama base. The current model is just bad, the diorama helps a lot, but it's still not good. With the new Horus, is it too optimistic to hope for a nice beaten up Siege of Terra version of Sanguinius, preferablywithout a terriblehead and a rock ip his arse?
BigOscar wrote: Interested to see if they release a new Sanguinius model when they release his book, or bring back his diorama base. The current model is just bad, the diorama helps a lot, but it's still not good. With the new Horus, is it too optimistic to hope for a nice beaten up Siege of Terra version of Sanguinius, preferablywithout a terriblehead and a rock ip his arse?
You'll get a dead Sanguinius face-down on some stairs and you'll like it!
BigOscar wrote: Interested to see if they release a new Sanguinius model when they release his book, or bring back his diorama base. The current model is just bad, the diorama helps a lot, but it's still not good. With the new Horus, is it too optimistic to hope for a nice beaten up Siege of Terra version of Sanguinius, preferablywithout a terriblehead and a rock ip his arse?
Do you have the model or is this opinion based on photos only? Because the model with the diorama base is amazing.
Hypothetically, what if we get black rage Sanginius?
Like let's say the tinfoil theorists are right and that the twist in the Seige of Terra is Sanginius goes ape, kills Horus, and then the Emperor has to put him down?
BigOscar wrote: Interested to see if they release a new Sanguinius model when they release his book, or bring back his diorama base. The current model is just bad, the diorama helps a lot, but it's still not good. With the new Horus, is it too optimistic to hope for a nice beaten up Siege of Terra version of Sanguinius, preferablywithout a terriblehead and a rock ip his arse?
Do you have the model or is this opinion based on photos only? Because the model with the diorama base is amazing.
I've seen the model without the diorama in person and it's not good at all. The diorama makes it make sense, but without it, that's £95 worth of skinny dude with creepy face with a rock up his arse
The predator weapon sprue is blatantly designed for a second sprue to come along with at least 4 of the missing 5 options- melta, plasma, flamestorm, conversion, and neutron. Probably the neutron laser as the odd one out.
I got my hands on the Predator kit early and while it might be obvious when you look at the sprues on games-workshop.com, I can confirm that the kit only builds a Predator (and not a Rhino, too, like the 40k version).
The kit trades one of the Rhino hull sprues for a new sprue with a modified top plate and side section for the sponsons, plus you get a new turret weapon sprue and the sponsons sprue you know from the Kratos and Sicaran.
* An administrative error caused by a shadowy figure hacking the mainframe at Warhammer Community Towers caused this previously to read “eight”. There have obviously only ever been seven Clades, and any scintilla of a suggestion to the contrary is heresy in the most extreme.
Just saw the price of the new Predator in Australia, hahaha, $110AUD, yeah, F-you GW, not a chance in hell I'll be paying that (for those not familiar with dollarydoos, the old predator over here is $83AUD, the old Rhino/Razorback is $55AUD, the Deimos Rhino is $78AUD).
Yeah it's nice. But it's not $110 nice when you don't even get all the weapon options. I hate that this is now how they present kits. Here's a tank. Here's half it's weapons. Come back in 6 months where you can buy the other half for another 3rd of the cost.
gaks.
As predicted, zero mention of it by GW themselves lol.
Hell, it's not even listed as a preorder! It's just there under New Releases.
At least that hopefully means people don't need to wait an extra week for the pre-order instead of just having it shipped to them right away.
Doesn't ship until the 17th. What's worse, is that early Saturday (maybe even Friday, can't remember when I saw it), before US preorders were up, it did show on the Horus Heresy landing page, but if you clicked on the "Buy Now" button, it took you to a blank page.
The Mechanicum book is a step down from the old FW red book. lots of reused artwork, the fluff blurbs are not that well done.
The ordo reductor is gone, the taking of any FW super heavy units is gone, some of the knights are missing, you cant make a all knight army without paying a armiger tax, one of the ordinatus are missing ( volcano cannon), termites are gone, the only dedicated transport is triaros armoured conveyor, no flyers at all... secutarii hoplites/peltasts can only be taken in a titan list and can only have a Triaros as dedicated transport.
Im not happy or impressed with this book at all. They have gutted the Mechanicum imho. the only thing they didn't do that I expected them to do was put the admech models into the army list.
I really hope this is a get you by book until they either release some more models, release a dark mechanicum book or just forget about them and let the mechanicum sail off into the sunset by dint of never updating them. It would be nice if FW would bring back the only generic HQ model the mechanicum had back into production. But that would be silly right?
So I'm just getting into the game and the more I dig into the Night Lords the more something isn't quite lining up with them. It's like an engine with a single cylinder that misfires and makes the whole thing knock. Don't get me wrong, I don't think they're bad, but it just feels like they overpay for their special rules a bit to the point that taking Curze and a Terror Assault feels pretty much an automatic combo to turn the legion all the way on without spending hundreds of points on it's rules.
I originally went into specifics but honestly it felt a bit too much like complaining my sandwich was cut the wrong direction. Like it's still a good sandwhich, but it's just lacking that polish that makes it a great sandwhich.
ClockworkZion wrote: So I'm just getting into the game and the more I dig into the Night Lords the more something isn't quite lining up with them. It's like an engine with a single cylinder that misfires and makes the whole thing knock. Don't get me wrong, I don't think they're bad, but it just feels like they overpay for their special rules a bit to the point that taking Curze and a Terror Assault feels pretty much an automatic combo to turn the legion all the way on without spending hundreds of points on it's rules.
I originally went into specifics but honestly it felt a bit too much like complaining my sandwich was cut the wrong direction. Like it's still a good sandwhich, but it's just lacking that polish that makes it a great sandwhich.
That's 2.0 in general for me. It's moreso a side-grade from 1.0, rather than a replacement. Some changes I like, some things I dislike, and many things have simply flipped positions. World Eaters for example, it used to be Red butchers were good and Rampagers were meh at best, now it's the other way around, Rampagers are incredibly good, but Red Butchers are at best a niche choice.
FabricatorGeneralMike wrote: I really hope this is a get you by book until they either release some more models, release a dark mechanicum book or just forget about them and let the mechanicum sail off into the sunset by dint of never updating them.
A $50 get you by book? Sounds like something GW would do
ClockworkZion wrote: So I'm just getting into the game and the more I dig into the Night Lords the more something isn't quite lining up with them. It's like an engine with a single cylinder that misfires and makes the whole thing knock. Don't get me wrong, I don't think they're bad, but it just feels like they overpay for their special rules a bit to the point that taking Curze and a Terror Assault feels pretty much an automatic combo to turn the legion all the way on without spending hundreds of points on it's rules.
I originally went into specifics but honestly it felt a bit too much like complaining my sandwich was cut the wrong direction. Like it's still a good sandwhich, but it's just lacking that polish that makes it a great sandwhich.
That's 2.0 in general for me. It's moreso a side-grade from 1.0, rather than a replacement. Some changes I like, some things I dislike, and many things have simply flipped positions. World Eaters for example, it used to be Red butchers were good and Rampagers were meh at best, now it's the other way around, Rampagers are incredibly good, but Red Butchers are at best a niche choice.
Well that's gw for you. Change good and bad around to encourage sales.
ClockworkZion wrote: So I'm just getting into the game and the more I dig into the Night Lords the more something isn't quite lining up with them. It's like an engine with a single cylinder that misfires and makes the whole thing knock. Don't get me wrong, I don't think they're bad, but it just feels like they overpay for their special rules a bit to the point that taking Curze and a Terror Assault feels pretty much an automatic combo to turn the legion all the way on without spending hundreds of points on it's rules.
I originally went into specifics but honestly it felt a bit too much like complaining my sandwich was cut the wrong direction. Like it's still a good sandwhich, but it's just lacking that polish that makes it a great sandwhich.
We pay a lot for our rules because they're that good. Owning the Night isn't cheap.
And bringing Curze in a Terror Assault list is the kind of thing I'd only do after warning an opponent in advance. All of the free stuff he hands out on top of his own abilities is like bolting a supercharger to an engine and then adding a 200 horse hit of nitrous, to stick with your analogy.
Really, the only complaints that I have about our rules is what they did to the Atrementar. That was just mean.
ClockworkZion wrote: So I'm just getting into the game and the more I dig into the Night Lords the more something isn't quite lining up with them. It's like an engine with a single cylinder that misfires and makes the whole thing knock. Don't get me wrong, I don't think they're bad, but it just feels like they overpay for their special rules a bit to the point that taking Curze and a Terror Assault feels pretty much an automatic combo to turn the legion all the way on without spending hundreds of points on it's rules.
I originally went into specifics but honestly it felt a bit too much like complaining my sandwich was cut the wrong direction. Like it's still a good sandwhich, but it's just lacking that polish that makes it a great sandwhich.
We pay a lot for our rules because they're that good. Owning the Night isn't cheap.
And bringing Curze in a Terror Assault list is the kind of thing I'd only do after warning an opponent in advance. All of the free stuff he hands out on top of his own abilities is like bolting a supercharger to an engine and then adding a 200 horse hit of nitrous, to stick with your analogy.
Really, the only complaints that I have about our rules is what they did to the Atrementar. That was just mean.
Yeah, the more I think about it we have some insane potential to be incredibly toxic. I've been mostly mentally stuck on our melee being bad in TEQ unless we gear up with generic AP2/AP1 wargear.
I am not exactly a fan of what happened to the Atramentar but they do open up the silliest Pride of the Legion with up to 40 Line terminators, plus up to another 80 Atramentar.
Plus whatever else we fill into Elites, retinues and the like.
Would it be good? Probably not, but over 100 Terminators in a list is hilarious to me.
I just will never understand their decision to make Atramentar in tartaros armor instead of cataphracti, when we already have contekar in tartaros. And when those came out everyone (me included) was confused why they weren't cataphracti to begin with. How do they feth that up TWICE?
Like some nerd who played NL in the studio was asked to make a custom unit or something and he was like "yeah just started playing NL about a week ago, I keep hearing bout these Attameantark terminators or somethin, don' know much bout thier fluff, but can we make this cool squad I built last week into official rules?"
Automatically Appended Next Post: And on that note, why can't they just make every terminator unit have the option of armor? They got rid of Sekhmet's choice of armor and they literally have a tartaros plastic kit you could easily make 30K worthy with removing a couple bits. I have multiple friends who did just that, and got shafted for it.
Being able to sweep was the better option for a Legion who's bonus' used to only apply in melee, than being more resilient.
The issue with the Atramentar isn't their type of armor, its their cost. Also their low WS for Legion Specials and not being Chosen Warriors (though I think the Contekar get that).
Also ye classic no model no rules, same reason the Deathshroud have Tartaros in 30k, but Cataphractii in 40k. Its how they were sculpted.
And on that note, why can't they just make every terminator unit have the option of armor? They got rid of Sekhmet's choice of armor and they literally have a tartaros plastic kit you could easily make 30K worthy with removing a couple bits. I have multiple friends who did just that, and got shafted for it.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: I just will never understand their decision to make Atramentar in tartaros armor instead of cataphracti, when we already have contekar in tartaros. And when those came out everyone (me included) was confused why they weren't cataphracti to begin with. How do they feth that up TWICE?
And on that note, why can't they just make every terminator unit have the option of armor? They got rid of Sekhmet's choice of armor and they literally have a tartaros plastic kit you could easily make 30K worthy with removing a couple bits. I have multiple friends who did just that, and got shafted for it.
Because, as we're all aware, no model = no rules. All the special terminator units were reduced to whatever forgeworld sold them as equipped with, which is what lead to the issues above. Now what's truly bizarre is why the inconsistently removed the option for jump packs from some units but not others. Like rampagers keep them but reavers and palatine blades don't? Why?
As to some units being good and others not being good, I think part of the issue is that this edition has made terminators incredibly powerful so the metric on how good a unit is, is how readily they can deal with 2+ saves. So if you look at red butchers, they look like garbage because they'll likely get pasted by other terminators, even though they'll absolutely wreck anything that has a 3+ save. Everyone just expects their special terminator unit to be as good as justaerin.
VictorVonTzeentch wrote: Being able to sweep was the better option for a Legion who's bonus' used to only apply in melee, than being more resilient.
The issue with the Atramentar isn't their type of armor, its their cost. Also their low WS for Legion Specials and not being Chosen Warriors (though I think the Contekar get that).
Yeah, I feel like the decision to make them troops and let them go up to 20 took them from being the rather scary elite terminators they are in lore to being a roving gang of bullies who pick on Tacticals. Add in basically pre-paying for their access to chainglaives and a premium for being non-Line troops out of the gate and they are an expensive bully horse unit in an army of already expensive bully horde units.
I don't hate them, I just think someone decided that all of our special stuff has to be some form of unit designed to bully MEQ and not much else which pigeonholes our thematic choices a lot and causes them to step on each other's toes a lot.
VictorVonTzeentch wrote: Being able to sweep was the better option for a Legion who's bonus' used to only apply in melee, than being more resilient.
The issue with the Atramentar isn't their type of armor, its their cost. Also their low WS for Legion Specials and not being Chosen Warriors (though I think the Contekar get that).
Yeah, I feel like the decision to make them troops and let them go up to 20 took them from being the rather scary elite terminators they are in lore to being a roving gang of bullies who pick on Tacticals. Add in basically pre-paying for their access to chainglaives and a premium for being non-Line troops out of the gate and they are an expensive bully horse unit in an army of already expensive bully horde units.
I don't hate them, I just think someone decided that all of our special stuff has to be some form of unit designed to bully MEQ and not much else which pigeonholes our thematic choices a lot and causes them to step on each other's toes a lot.
Yeah, and having Deepstrike baked in as well is nice for running Terminators with out having to have Sevatar in every list. The cost of doing what we used to be able to do last edition. But they'll be fun enough, if less effective than using standard Legion Terminators for anything with a 2+ or AV.
Other than the Land Raider Proteus, has everything else we've known about been released (or at least put on pre-order)? I ask because so far the HH waves have been pretty extensive as far as releases go, and the Proteus coming out all by its lonesome would be unusual.
Having said that, the only consistent thing about GW is their inconsistency, so there'd be no reason for surprise if they put the Proteus out and nothing else around it, but are there credible rumours of anything beyond what we've already seen?
Ahtman wrote: So has there still been no word on something as basic as assault marine parts? Still just heavy and special?
HH releases are teased on Thursdays. So we'll either see legion upgrades or something else. I'm split because I need Despoiler/Assault Marines (sorry FW, but $10USD+ per Marine isn't okay) but I also want to see Night Lords upgrades ASAP.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Other than the Land Raider Proteus, has everything else we've known about been released (or at least put on pre-order)? I ask because so far the HH waves have been pretty extensive as far as releases go, and the Proteus coming out all by its lonesome would be unusual.
Having said that, the only consistent thing about GW is their inconsistency, so there'd be no reason for surprise if they put the Proteus out and nothing else around it, but are there credible rumours of anything beyond what we've already seen?
Ahtman wrote: So has there still been no word on something as basic as assault marine parts? Still just heavy and special?
HH releases are teased on Thursdays. So we'll either see legion upgrades or something else. I'm split because I need Despoiler/Assault Marines (sorry FW, but $10USD+ per Marine isn't okay) but I also want to see Night Lords upgrades ASAP.
Odds are pretty good that NL upgrades will be exactly what you expect... or they're go full Flanderization and be giant bat heads and winged shoulders.
Ahtman wrote: So has there still been no word on something as basic as assault marine parts? Still just heavy and special?
HH releases are teased on Thursdays. So we'll either see legion upgrades or something else. I'm split because I need Despoiler/Assault Marines (sorry FW, but $10USD+ per Marine isn't okay) but I also want to see Night Lords upgrades ASAP.
Odds are pretty good that NL upgrades will be exactly what you expect... or they're go full Flanderization and be giant bat heads and winged shoulders.
I just want heads that look like the Night Raptor ones, even if they come as beakies I'll be happy.
Sunday's "Next week" article teased about significant HH news this week. I'd wager that means something more elaborate than just a few Legion heads getting announced..
tauist wrote: Sunday's "Next week" article teased about significant HH news this week. I'd wager that means something more elaborate than just a few Legion heads getting announced..
I'll keep my expectations low just in case. Like maybe it'll be a new set of molded bases.
tauist wrote: Sunday's "Next week" article teased about significant HH news this week. I'd wager that means something more elaborate than just a few Legion heads getting announced..
tauist wrote: Sunday's "Next week" article teased about significant HH news this week. I'd wager that means something more elaborate than just a few Legion heads getting announced..
It also teased that same for 40k, but it was just the Magic decks.
VictorVonTzeentch wrote: Being able to sweep was the better option for a Legion who's bonus' used to only apply in melee, than being more resilient.
The issue with the Atramentar isn't their type of armor, its their cost. Also their low WS for Legion Specials and not being Chosen Warriors (though I think the Contekar get that).
Yeah, I feel like the decision to make them troops and let them go up to 20 took them from being the rather scary elite terminators they are in lore to being a roving gang of bullies who pick on Tacticals. Add in basically pre-paying for their access to chainglaives and a premium for being non-Line troops out of the gate and they are an expensive bully horse unit in an army of already expensive bully horde units.
I don't hate them, I just think someone decided that all of our special stuff has to be some form of unit designed to bully MEQ and not much else which pigeonholes our thematic choices a lot and causes them to step on each other's toes a lot.
They can only be troops if Sevatar is your warlord. And they could do that in 1.0, as well as come in 20 man squads. And they were still WS5. And they can bully more than MEQ. They can bully other Terminators, they just have to outnumber them to do it. Including "standard" terminators, because they have a "standard" Terminator stat line. Other elite terminators can bully standard terminators without doing that. That's the problem. 5 Atrementar should be able to wreck 5 standard Tartaros terminators. They don't.
And the reason why they seem overpriced isn't because they pay for those chainglaives, deep strike, Fear, etc. That's fine. It's because they pay a higher "sergeant tax" than any other type of terminators in the game. Every other type of terminators pays +25 points per squad for their sergeant. Atrementar pay +45 points for theirs. That's , plain and simple.
Ahtman wrote: So has there still been no word on something as basic as assault marine parts? Still just heavy and special?
HH releases are teased on Thursdays. So we'll either see legion upgrades or something else. I'm split because I need Despoiler/Assault Marines (sorry FW, but $10USD+ per Marine isn't okay) but I also want to see Night Lords upgrades ASAP.
Odds are pretty good that NL upgrades will be exactly what you expect... or they're go full Flanderization and be giant bat heads and winged shoulders.
I just want heads that look like the Night Raptor ones, even if they come as beakies I'll be happy.
A set of heads that follow the design of the Night Raptors and Sevatar's would be our best hope. None of the recent stuff touches those. They just look so evil. With those and the Terror Squad heads we'd be set.
VictorVonTzeentch wrote: Being able to sweep was the better option for a Legion who's bonus' used to only apply in melee, than being more resilient.
The issue with the Atramentar isn't their type of armor, its their cost. Also their low WS for Legion Specials and not being Chosen Warriors (though I think the Contekar get that).
Yeah, I feel like the decision to make them troops and let them go up to 20 took them from being the rather scary elite terminators they are in lore to being a roving gang of bullies who pick on Tacticals. Add in basically pre-paying for their access to chainglaives and a premium for being non-Line troops out of the gate and they are an expensive bully horse unit in an army of already expensive bully horde units.
I don't hate them, I just think someone decided that all of our special stuff has to be some form of unit designed to bully MEQ and not much else which pigeonholes our thematic choices a lot and causes them to step on each other's toes a lot.
They can only be troops if Sevatar is your warlord. And they could do that in 1.0, as well as come in 20 man squads. And they were still WS5. And they can bully more than MEQ. They can bully other Terminators, they just have to outnumber them to do it. Including "standard" terminators, because they have a "standard" Terminator stat line. Other elite terminators can bully standard terminators without doing that. That's the problem. 5 Atrementar should be able to wreck 5 standard Tartaros terminators. They don't.
And the reason why they seem overpriced isn't because they pay for those chainglaives, deep strike, Fear, etc. That's fine. It's because they pay a higher "sergeant tax" than any other type of terminators in the game. Every other type of terminators pays +25 points per squad for their sergeant. Atrementar pay +45 points for theirs. That's , plain and simple.
Ahtman wrote: So has there still been no word on something as basic as assault marine parts? Still just heavy and special?
HH releases are teased on Thursdays. So we'll either see legion upgrades or something else. I'm split because I need Despoiler/Assault Marines (sorry FW, but $10USD+ per Marine isn't okay) but I also want to see Night Lords upgrades ASAP.
Odds are pretty good that NL upgrades will be exactly what you expect... or they're go full Flanderization and be giant bat heads and winged shoulders.
I just want heads that look like the Night Raptor ones, even if they come as beakies I'll be happy.
A set of heads that follow the design of the Night Raptors and Sevatar's would be our best hope. None of the recent stuff touches those. They just look so evil. With those and the Terror Squad heads we'd be set.
Yeah, having the Chainglaives, Fear and DS built in is great. But that Sgt tax is stupid plain and simple. Maybe if some of that tax was instead to make the WS5.
ClockworkZion wrote: So I'm just getting into the game and the more I dig into the Night Lords the more something isn't quite lining up with them. It's like an engine with a single cylinder that misfires and makes the whole thing knock. Don't get me wrong, I don't think they're bad, but it just feels like they overpay for their special rules a bit to the point that taking Curze and a Terror Assault feels pretty much an automatic combo to turn the legion all the way on without spending hundreds of points on it's rules.
I originally went into specifics but honestly it felt a bit too much like complaining my sandwich was cut the wrong direction. Like it's still a good sandwhich, but it's just lacking that polish that makes it a great sandwhich.
Not saying you're wrong, but this is not Night Lords specific, and tends to be true of several traitor legions.
ClockworkZion wrote: So I'm just getting into the game and the more I dig into the Night Lords the more something isn't quite lining up with them. It's like an engine with a single cylinder that misfires and makes the whole thing knock. Don't get me wrong, I don't think they're bad, but it just feels like they overpay for their special rules a bit to the point that taking Curze and a Terror Assault feels pretty much an automatic combo to turn the legion all the way on without spending hundreds of points on it's rules.
I originally went into specifics but honestly it felt a bit too much like complaining my sandwich was cut the wrong direction. Like it's still a good sandwhich, but it's just lacking that polish that makes it a great sandwhich.
Not saying you're wrong, but this is not Night Lords specific, and tends to be true of several traitor legions.
I think I nailed what it is: Most of the traitors (maybe all of them, I haven't checked) don't unlock line when they take their ROW. So your cool specialist units? Sure you can have 4 of them instead of 3, and likely free up your elites slot a bit, but at the same time they don't gain scoring without doing something like putting a herald into their unit.
ClockworkZion wrote: So I'm just getting into the game and the more I dig into the Night Lords the more something isn't quite lining up with them. It's like an engine with a single cylinder that misfires and makes the whole thing knock. Don't get me wrong, I don't think they're bad, but it just feels like they overpay for their special rules a bit to the point that taking Curze and a Terror Assault feels pretty much an automatic combo to turn the legion all the way on without spending hundreds of points on it's rules.
I originally went into specifics but honestly it felt a bit too much like complaining my sandwich was cut the wrong direction. Like it's still a good sandwhich, but it's just lacking that polish that makes it a great sandwhich.
Not saying you're wrong, but this is not Night Lords specific, and tends to be true of several traitor legions.
I think I nailed what it is: Most of the traitors (maybe all of them, I haven't checked) don't unlock line when they take their ROW. So your cool specialist units? Sure you can have 4 of them instead of 3, and likely free up your elites slot a bit, but at the same time they don't gain scoring without doing something like putting a herald into their unit.
Looking at it now, the only RoW that hand out line for traitors, is “The Crimson Path” for WE, which gives rampagers line but doesn’t make them troops, and “The Reaving” for SoH, which makes Reaver Attack squads Troops and makes them line.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Is it wrong that I wanted more from the Venenum Assassin than "I've got an angry mask and lots of injectors!"?
Agreed. It's a good model in and of itself and matches up aesthetically well with the other assassins, but I really pictured the Verenum assassin as an undercover type.
You know, man in hi-vis. Unassuming lady on the street. That sort of thing.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Is it wrong that I wanted more from the Venenum Assassin than "I've got an angry mask and lots of injectors!"?
Agreed. It's a good model in and of itself and matches up aesthetically well with the other assassins, but I really pictured the Verenum assassin as an undercover type.
You know, man in hi-vis. Unassuming lady on the street. That sort of thing.
If that guy is what is considered 'portly' then I don't know what to think.
At most I'd say he's 'stocky' and only then because he's not the typical 30/40k assassin build of either very lithe or a ridiculously pronounced musculature.
axotl wrote: And most resin is garbage and overpriced
Okay, that's a nice opinion, but that doesn't change the fact that this game is largely built on resin character models, upgrade kits, and sets we don't have in plastic.
I can understand complaints about the cost but can't get on board with comments about the quality of Forge World resins, especially more recent ones. The material they're using now is pretty durable and obviously detailed.
JimmyWolf87 wrote: I can understand complaints about the cost but can't get on board with comments about the quality of Forge World resins, especially more recent ones. The material they're using now is pretty durable and obviously detailed.
The issue isn't the durability of the material, but their quality control in general. Every single model I ever buy from FW has some amount of mold slippage on it. I can usually fix it with some filing and green stuff, but that's something I've almost never had to do with resin models from other companies.
And don't get me started on how inconveniently placed and oversized some of the resin sprue attachments are.
Must be the paintjob but the two new assassins seem to look rather different when compared to the other four. I mean, I know each one is unique, but the original four had a more utilitarian look rather than the gothic/grimdark feel (not counting skull masks here). These two new ones feel like they’d fit better in an Inquisitor’s retinue rather than being the two missing Temples/Clades.
Just my humble opinion, still dig the models though!
Malika2 wrote: Must be the paintjob but the two jew assassins seem to look rather different when compared to the other four. I mean, I know each one is unique, but the original four had a more utilitarian look rather than the gothic/grimdark feel (not counting skull masks here). These two new ones feel like they’d fit better in an Inquisitor’s retinue rather than being the two missing Temples/Clades.
Just my humble opinion, still dig the models though!
They're not as frontline, so it makes sense to me at least
So, given the large number of plastic releases that we've already had, what are the odds that we see more power armour variants before next summer? I don't suppose anyone's been keeping a running tally of the sprue count for HH releases?
crumby_cataphract wrote: So, given the large number of plastic releases that we've already had, what are the odds that we see more power armour variants before next summer? I don't suppose anyone's been keeping a running tally of the sprue count for HH releases?
If the yearly boxed-set rumor is to be believed I'd assume a new armor mark would be saved for something like that. MK IV, MK III and MK VI all were introduced with a horus heresy boxed set so I don't see why they'd buck that trend.
Yeah, that makes sense. I suppose there's no incentive to release the MKII outside of a boxed set to draw in players who don't already have a bunch of MKVIs.
I just hope that when they do release the MKIIs, they look like the gunner in the Spartan kit.
crumby_cataphract wrote: Yeah, that makes sense. I suppose there's no incentive to release the MKII outside of a boxed set to draw in players who don't already have a bunch of MKVIs.
I just hope that when they do release the MKIIs, they look like the gunner in the Spartan kit.
Ditto, while I prefer mkiii, mkii is the go-to for early crusade!
axotl wrote: And most resin is garbage and overpriced
Okay, that's a nice opinion, but that doesn't change the fact that this game is largely built on resin character models, upgrade kits, and sets we don't have in plastic.
You're right, but that's also why people are eagerly watching this thread and the releases. People want good, generic stuff to come out in plastic - melee marines, vehicles, ect - so they can make armies without dumping 10$ / head on poorly cast munchkins.
JimmyWolf87 wrote: I can understand complaints about the cost but can't get on board with comments about the quality of Forge World resins, especially more recent ones. The material they're using now is pretty durable and obviously detailed.
The issue isn't the durability of the material, but their quality control in general. Every single model I ever buy from FW has some amount of mold slippage on it. I can usually fix it with some filing and green stuff, but that's something I've almost never had to do with resin models from other companies.
And don't get me started on how inconveniently placed and oversized some of the resin sprue attachments are.
When did you last buy one? I haven't had any major issues with fw resin for a good few years.
JimmyWolf87 wrote: I can understand complaints about the cost but can't get on board with comments about the quality of Forge World resins, especially more recent ones. The material they're using now is pretty durable and obviously detailed.
The issue isn't the durability of the material, but their quality control in general. Every single model I ever buy from FW has some amount of mold slippage on it. I can usually fix it with some filing and green stuff, but that's something I've almost never had to do with resin models from other companies.
And don't get me started on how inconveniently placed and oversized some of the resin sprue attachments are.
When did you last buy one? I haven't had any major issues with fw resin for a good few years.
Same. They used to be a tad brittle but they've seemingly changed the 'recipe' in the past couple of years and use a firmer, visibly darker resin that doesn't tend to slip and that's been nothing but exceptional in my experience.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Yeah, he. Pretty sure that's a stout guy with pecs/manboobs, what of it.
He looks like a couch potato from real life but is running around in a setting where everything is larger than life. He doesn´t fit because he isn´t fit. A disgrace for the Imperial war machine.
Strg Alt wrote: He looks like a couch potato from real life but is running around in a setting where everything is larger than life. He doesn´t fit because he isn´t fit. A disgrace for the Imperial war machine.
Bloke spikes peoples drinks for a living. Don't think he needs to be Buff McHuge-large.
JimmyWolf87 wrote: I can understand complaints about the cost but can't get on board with comments about the quality of Forge World resins, especially more recent ones. The material they're using now is pretty durable and obviously detailed.
The issue isn't the durability of the material, but their quality control in general. Every single model I ever buy from FW has some amount of mold slippage on it. I can usually fix it with some filing and green stuff, but that's something I've almost never had to do with resin models from other companies.
And don't get me started on how inconveniently placed and oversized some of the resin sprue attachments are.
When did you last buy one? I haven't had any major issues with fw resin for a good few years.
This year. Several hundreds of dollars worth of various models. Including the newly designed Astraeus among other things like Guilliman, UM contemptor, volkite chargers, etc. Ventanus's banner had a weird shine and felt slightly tacky to the touch, even after thorough cleaning, but it still took primer. And still far too much mold slippage across many of the models and parts. Far more than I've gotten from every other resin model purchased from every other company ever, combined. It was all still fixable, but at FW's prices and claimed quality, no such fixing should be needed, especially in comparison to other companies like Kromlech.
JimmyWolf87 wrote: I can understand complaints about the cost but can't get on board with comments about the quality of Forge World resins, especially more recent ones. The material they're using now is pretty durable and obviously detailed.
The issue isn't the durability of the material, but their quality control in general. Every single model I ever buy from FW has some amount of mold slippage on it. I can usually fix it with some filing and green stuff, but that's something I've almost never had to do with resin models from other companies.
And don't get me started on how inconveniently placed and oversized some of the resin sprue attachments are.
When did you last buy one? I haven't had any major issues with fw resin for a good few years.
This year. Several hundreds of dollars worth of various models. Including the newly designed Astraeus among other things like Guilliman, UM contemptor, volkite chargers, etc. Ventanus's banner had a weird shine and felt slightly tacky to the touch, even after thorough cleaning, but it still took primer. And still far too much mold slippage across many of the models and parts. Far more than I've gotten from every other resin model purchased from every other company ever, combined. It was all still fixable, but at FW's prices and claimed quality, no such fixing should be needed, especially in comparison to other companies like Kromlech.
Over the last 20 years or so I must have bought well over 100 models from Forge World, only one had mold slippage.
I've definitely noticed that a large number of Dakka users from the USA seem to complain about FW quality control, the difference in experience to my own seems so large that I can't help but wonder if there is a different casting facility being used for product that ends up in the USA? I really find it hard to understand how other people's experience differs so much from my own.
Agreed 100% about the occasional difficulties with mold release that can't be removed though, I know how to fix the problem but it really shouldn't be an issue in the first place.
EDIT: I gave it some more thought, "over 100 models" was way, way less than the actual figure. I have a problem.
axotl wrote: And most resin is garbage and overpriced
Okay, that's a nice opinion, but that doesn't change the fact that this game is largely built on resin character models, upgrade kits, and sets we don't have in plastic.
You're right, but that's also why people are eagerly watching this thread and the releases. People want good, generic stuff to come out in plastic - melee marines, vehicles, ect - so they can make armies without dumping 10$ / head on poorly cast munchkins.
People need to remember characters and one off models like the Assassins are more than likely to remain resin over become plastic though. As much as I prefer plastic, it's good to have a sense of perspective about these things and not let the hype overrule sense.
In our last Exemplary Battles article, the owners of the finest helmets in the galaxy, the Space Wolves, launched a daring raid on The Vengeful Spirit. This month, it’s time for their arch-rivals the Thousand Sons to take their moment in the spotligh
JimmyWolf87 wrote: I can understand complaints about the cost but can't get on board with comments about the quality of Forge World resins, especially more recent ones. The material they're using now is pretty durable and obviously detailed.
The issue isn't the durability of the material, but their quality control in general. Every single model I ever buy from FW has some amount of mold slippage on it. I can usually fix it with some filing and green stuff, but that's something I've almost never had to do with resin models from other companies.
And don't get me started on how inconveniently placed and oversized some of the resin sprue attachments are.
When did you last buy one? I haven't had any major issues with fw resin for a good few years.
This year. Several hundreds of dollars worth of various models. Including the newly designed Astraeus among other things like Guilliman, UM contemptor, volkite chargers, etc. Ventanus's banner had a weird shine and felt slightly tacky to the touch, even after thorough cleaning, but it still took primer. And still far too much mold slippage across many of the models and parts. Far more than I've gotten from every other resin model purchased from every other company ever, combined. It was all still fixable, but at FW's prices and claimed quality, no such fixing should be needed, especially in comparison to other companies like Kromlech.
Over the last 20 years or so I must have bought well over 100 models from Forge World, only one had mold slippage.
I've definitely noticed that a large number of Dakka users from the USA seem to complain about FW quality control, the difference in experience to my own seems so large that I can't help but wonder if there is a different casting facility being used for product that ends up in the USA? I really find it hard to understand how other people's experience differs so much from my own.
Agreed 100% about the occasional difficulties with mold release that can't be removed though, I know how to fix the problem but it really shouldn't be an issue in the first place.
EDIT: I gave it some more thought, "over 100 models" was way, way less than the actual figure. I have a problem.
A lot of people in Germany also complain about rotten resin from Forge World.
Strg Alt wrote: He looks like a couch potato from real life but is running around in a setting where everything is larger than life. He doesn´t fit because he isn´t fit. A disgrace for the Imperial war machine.
Bloke spikes peoples drinks for a living. Don't think he needs to be Buff McHuge-large.
Bloke is an Imperial Assassin. These guys are even tougher than SM and being out of shape is a no-go. Verdict stands: Model is a complete failure. Looks like a schlub doing a cosplay of an Assassin.
I've had not-good resin from FW with some minor mould slippage and bubbles. Nothing crazy bad, but I've also not had any that screams "high quality" either...
JimmyWolf87 wrote: I can understand complaints about the cost but can't get on board with comments about the quality of Forge World resins, especially more recent ones. The material they're using now is pretty durable and obviously detailed.
The issue isn't the durability of the material, but their quality control in general. Every single model I ever buy from FW has some amount of mold slippage on it. I can usually fix it with some filing and green stuff, but that's something I've almost never had to do with resin models from other companies.
And don't get me started on how inconveniently placed and oversized some of the resin sprue attachments are.
When did you last buy one? I haven't had any major issues with fw resin for a good few years.
Same. They used to be a tad brittle but they've seemingly changed the 'recipe' in the past couple of years and use a firmer, visibly darker resin that doesn't tend to slip and that's been nothing but exceptional in my experience.
No offense but then you likely aren't the type to really check every mold line. Of the probably 2k$ I've spent FW in the last year or two, only the smallest handful of models did not warrant a replacement for mold slip on at least 1 core part.
I think some people see a model as a game piece and are not particularly discerning on quality. Or don't have the attention to detail? I don't know. Sort of reminds me of the 60 fps debate. There's a pretty clear issue with quality control with forge world models. Check my post history I document many replacements in an album.
JimmyWolf87 wrote: I can understand complaints about the cost but can't get on board with comments about the quality of Forge World resins, especially more recent ones. The material they're using now is pretty durable and obviously detailed.
The issue isn't the durability of the material, but their quality control in general. Every single model I ever buy from FW has some amount of mold slippage on it. I can usually fix it with some filing and green stuff, but that's something I've almost never had to do with resin models from other companies.
And don't get me started on how inconveniently placed and oversized some of the resin sprue attachments are.
When did you last buy one? I haven't had any major issues with fw resin for a good few years.
Same. They used to be a tad brittle but they've seemingly changed the 'recipe' in the past couple of years and use a firmer, visibly darker resin that doesn't tend to slip and that's been nothing but exceptional in my experience.
No offense but then you likely aren't the type to really check every mold line. Of the probably 2k$ I've spent FW in the last year or two, only the smallest handful of models did not warrant a replacement for mold slip on at least 1 core part.
I think some people see a model as a game piece and are not particularly discerning on quality. Or don't have the attention to detail? I don't know. Sort of reminds me of the 60 fps debate. There's a pretty clear issue with quality control with forge world models. Check my post history I document many replacements in an album.
It reminds me of the finecast debacle, obviously finecast was much much worse, but there were still people who insisted it was fine and they couldn't see any bubbles or flaws in their models, meanwhile I didn't see a single finecast model without a flaw, the question was simply how egregious it was.
FW stuff has a bad reputation for mould slippage, there's only a few models that I thought were bad enough to get a replacement but several where I was shaving off more of the model than I felt was warranted for such an expensive model.
Why are we talking about FW quality as if GW plastic kits don't have mold lines everywhere, bent parts, mold slip, etc? I'd love it if FW quality control was better but let's not pretend that GW kits don't take a similar amount of time to clean up if you care about having a nice looking model.
Must admit that yesterday I received the new Emperor's Children Praetor, head and shoulder pad upgrades from Forge World yesterday and they were the crispest casts I have ever gotten from Forge World.
Obviously the provisos here are that they are brand new and expensive so the should be exceptional quality, I am also UK based. But was very happy with them. The older EC Contemptor was nowhere near as good but was bubble and mould slip free.
Yeah, FW has gotten better, but I have a bunch of FW kits from over the last decade or so that vary from awful (Fellblade, Gorgon, original Leviathan) to amazing (Porphyrion Acastus, Palatine Blades, Saul Tarvitz, lots of BB Star Players). As time passes, their quality has definitely improved.
Aecus Decimus wrote: Why are we talking about FW quality as if GW plastic kits don't have mold lines everywhere, bent parts, mold slip, etc? I'd love it if FW quality control was better but let's not pretend that GW kits don't take a similar amount of time to clean up if you care about having a nice looking model.
Mould slip is different to mould lines. Mould lines are easy to clean up and when you finish the model is as it should be. Mould slip means you have either remove part of the model or resculpt part of the model so that you don't have a seam line.
I think I've experience mould slip once on a plastic kit from GW, some time around the early 00's, i.e. it's quite rare. Mould slip on FW models on the other hand is pretty common. Bent parts? Not really super common in my experience of GW plastic kits, I've had a few damaged GW kits but they're few and far between and were replaced reasonably quickly.
And just in general, you tend to know what you're getting with GW. FW, one model will come pristine and perfect, the next will come mould slipped, bubble ridden and warped beyond repair.
ListenToMeWarriors wrote: Must admit that yesterday I received the new Emperor's Children Praetor, head and shoulder pad upgrades from Forge World yesterday and they were the crispest casts I have ever gotten from Forge World.
I have the same experience, I bought all of the new EC stuff and the casts are fantastic.
According to Axotl we must "not be the type to check every mold line"...
H.B.M.C. wrote: The newer FW stuff is always better. The moulds are new.
Sure, of course.
But that doesn't explain how my experience differs so much from others, most of the FW stuff that I have purchased over the years wasn't from fresh molds. It's not like it's that small of a sample size either.
ListenToMeWarriors wrote: Must admit that yesterday I received the new Emperor's Children Praetor, head and shoulder pad upgrades from Forge World yesterday and they were the crispest casts I have ever gotten from Forge World.
Obviously the provisos here are that they are brand new and expensive so the should be exceptional quality, I am also UK based. But was very happy with them. The older EC Contemptor was nowhere near as good but was bubble and mould slip free.
Same. Lucius is amazing too, bar one strange design decision to have the modeller attach one of his sword sheaths with the smallest joint surface area possible, impossible to pin, which is then impinged on by the cloak once the backpack goes on. Other than that he looks great.
Actually reading the thread fully - I do really believe they have crappier quality control for the stuff sold outside of the UK. I'd really love to compare casts of the same models. But this might be what's different. I just had to have all 3 sons of Horus models (both praetors, malogurst) and 2 ofthe brand new aeronautica custodes ships have to be replaced. What they sent back was pretty good though - looked to be from different mold masters honestly. And I think they were dispatched from overseas?
The only FW stuff I've bought in the couple of years has been Necromunda, and the quality has been pretty damn good compared to pretty much any of my Heresy mk3 I got when it first came out. Large vehicle kits have always had issues when I've bought them, slips here and there, but no such issues on recent infantry sized kits.
When AoD dropped I picked up Curze, Sevatar, two sets of Contenkar, and two sets of Night Raptors and all the sculpts have been clean and crisp with no bubbles or mold lines. Then again they might have redone those molds in prep for the new edition.
I don't doubt people have had issues in the past with FW though, I know I have, but it seems like when they keep the molds new things hold up fine.
Speaking of miscasts about fifteen years ago or so I once got a pewter model that had a little blob for one of the guy's hands. Guess and air bubble got stuck in the mold or they didn't pour enough pewter.
Details look sharp, but a bit disappointing that you can see the 3D printing lines. I've been hesitant to buy another FW model since some Aeronautica Imperialis stuff I bought came with 3D printing lines, after a coat of primer it was less noticeable but still visible. I have models that I've 3D printed myself that have worse lines, but at FW prices I really expect that those sorts of flaws would be cleaned up prior to making the mould.
Fair enough, it's hard to tell from pictures how good or bad it is in reality, and different folk have different things that annoy them.
The AT/AI maybe looks worse because they're small models that people look at more closely, or maybe FW did genuinely botch them, lol. My AI stuff, I could probably do a couple of extra layers of primer and it'd hide the layer lines, I've done that on some of the stuff I printed myself, but I don't feel like I should have to on such an expensive model.
The huge Cape hung off one shoulder bugs me a little bit. I don't like how it seems to unbalance the model. I might see if I can adjust it when I build mine.
queen_annes_revenge wrote: The huge Cape hung off one shoulder bugs me a little bit. I don't like how it seems to unbalance the model. I might see if I can adjust it when I build mine.
That’s the thing about resin; it’s bends really easily when you heat it up to around 60-80°C (recently boiled water, basically) so you probably can.
queen_annes_revenge wrote: The huge Cape hung off one shoulder bugs me a little bit. I don't like how it seems to unbalance the model. I might see if I can adjust it when I build mine.
That’s the thing about resin; it’s bends really easily when you heat it up to around 60-80°C (recently boiled water, basically) so you probably can.
It can, however, gradually return to the shape it had when it was released from the mould. That can be a problem when things were released from the mould too early or too aggressively before they were fully cured, you unbend it with hot water and then over some period of time it gradually bends back to where it was.
queen_annes_revenge wrote: The huge Cape hung off one shoulder bugs me a little bit. I don't like how it seems to unbalance the model. I might see if I can adjust it when I build mine.
That’s the thing about resin; it’s bends really easily when you heat it up to around 60-80°C (recently boiled water, basically) so you probably can.
I'll most likely see about relocating it rather than reshaping it. Making it into a regular cape or something.
Mechanicum Legacy PDF and FAQs for all available books have been released.
Satrael, Adsecularis with Chainswords, Macaroid Explorator, Land Raider Phobos, Tarantulas, Termites, Reduction Artillery squadron and the Reductor Minotaur battery are all in there.
Gert wrote: Mechanicum Legacy PDF and FAQs for all available books have been released.
Satrael, Adsecularis with Chainswords, Macaroid Explorator, Land Raider Phobos, Tarantulas, Termites, Reduction Artillery squadron and the Reductor Minotaur battery are all in there.
The Ordinatus Sagittar is not. Of course - as it's the only one I have.
Pretty "minimalist" FAQs. Still no explanation for how an Ordnance weapon with Armourbane is supposed to work. And no fix for the timing issues for Blind, Cuncussive, or Shock Pulse. And no changes for any of the Exemplary Battles units. Seriously gw: FIX WHAT YOU DID TO THE ATREMENTAR!!
Wow, having to take 3 of the same unit for Coils of the Serpent is a bad call. I guess it makes sense fluffwise, but there's already so many caveats with Coils.
VictorVonTzeentch wrote: Some updates to the Legacy Astartes Units as well, no exemplar update though.
For example, Indomitus Terminators lose Support Squad and gain Line in Pride of the Legion.
Yeah the Palatine Blades got their jump packs back, finally
It's actually pretty nice they corrected some of their mistake, it was just so dumb not to be able to transition from HH 1.0 to 2.0 properly
Gadzilla666 wrote: Pretty "minimalist" FAQs. Still no explanation for how an Ordnance weapon with Armourbane is supposed to work. And no fix for the timing issues for Blind, Cuncussive, or Shock Pulse. And no changes for any of the Exemplary Battles units. Seriously gw: FIX WHAT YOU DID TO THE ATREMENTAR!!
Have you considered that what they have published this time is them fixing what they did to the Atrementar in HH1.0?
I feel they haven't released a bad one yet in the newer scale, but I agree that the Space Wolves on, and to a degree the Word Bearers ones, are lacking. Mainly the poor flames and weak poses on the Word Bearers, but that Space Trash Panda is dire,
warl0rdb0b wrote: I feel they haven't released a bad one yet in the newer scale, but I agree that the Space Wolves on, and to a degree the Word Bearers ones, are lacking. Mainly the poor flames and weak poses on the Word Bearers, but that Space Trash Panda is dire,
I'm a fan of the Word Bearers ones, but I haven't seen the Space Wolves one at all
warl0rdb0b wrote: I feel they haven't released a bad one yet in the newer scale, but I agree that the Space Wolves on, and to a degree the Word Bearers ones, are lacking. Mainly the poor flames and weak poses on the Word Bearers, but that Space Trash Panda is dire,
I'm a fan of the Word Bearers ones, but I haven't seen the Space Wolves one at all
warl0rdb0b wrote: I feel they haven't released a bad one yet in the newer scale, but I agree that the Space Wolves on, and to a degree the Word Bearers ones, are lacking. Mainly the poor flames and weak poses on the Word Bearers, but that Space Trash Panda is dire,
I'm a fan of the Word Bearers ones, but I haven't seen the Space Wolves one at all
Not sure why all praetor axes have to have massive rents in them now.
Gw seem to have gone down a bit of a bizarre road with weapons on characters/command guys these days. I often switch them out for more regular looking weapons.
warl0rdb0b wrote: I feel they haven't released a bad one yet in the newer scale, but I agree that the Space Wolves on, and to a degree the Word Bearers ones, are lacking. Mainly the poor flames and weak poses on the Word Bearers, but that Space Trash Panda is dire,
I disagree - well at least for Word Bearers , I have the Word Bearers ones. They look awesome and are (so far) fun to paint.
warl0rdb0b wrote: I feel they haven't released a bad one yet in the newer scale, but I agree that the Space Wolves on, and to a degree the Word Bearers ones, are lacking. Mainly the poor flames and weak poses on the Word Bearers, but that Space Trash Panda is dire,
You don't like the WB one? I don't think anyone will defend the SW one, but the WB terminator is awesome, and makes a great praetor, librarian/sorcerer, and even a dark apostle (though its not like those get terminator armor.)
The night lord praetor, on the other hand...
Spoiler:
The helmet looks silly, not scary. The giant skull and legion numbers on the chest don't feel right, and look at the hooks on his chainmail tabbard. They forgot to sculpt detail behind the hook, so now there are just random metal chunks. I feel like a NL praetor with jump pack should be one of the best looking praetor models, and it is definitely not.
warl0rdb0b wrote: I feel they haven't released a bad one yet in the newer scale, but I agree that the Space Wolves on, and to a degree the Word Bearers ones, are lacking. Mainly the poor flames and weak poses on the Word Bearers, but that Space Trash Panda is dire,
You don't like the WB one? I don't think anyone will defend the SW one, but the WB terminator is awesome, and makes a great praetor, librarian/sorcerer, and even a dark apostle (though its not like those get terminator armor.)
The night lord praetor, on the other hand...
Spoiler:
The helmet looks silly, not scary. The giant skull and legion numbers on the chest don't feel right, and look at the hooks on his chainmail tabbard. They forgot to sculpt detail behind the hook, so now there are just random metal chunks. I feel like a NL praetor with jump pack should be one of the best looking praetor models, and it is definitely not.
I don't hate the WB preators, I just feel they're a little behind the other legions in terms of how modern they look. The flames are a little clumsy, and the poses are fairly generic 'shoot/point while holding choppy weapon at ease'. They just lack, for want of a better word, purpose. I'd have loved it if one were in a pose like the old failcast Dark Apostle, or something equally bombastic and full of zeal.
And I totally forgot about that.... messy KL one, he is the polar opposite of his Termi brother.
look at the hooks on his chainmail tabbard. They forgot to sculpt detail behind the hook, so now there are just random metal chunks.
That....
is a sad thing to behold.
full-on schoolboy error from the people who are supposed to know better.
The whole 3d-printlines on resin models was the first warning wasn't it?
It´s more than this for me. I generally dislike all forms of polearm weapons for SM. Everybody who served in the military know of cramped interior conditions of tanks. So unwieldy stuff like this is not beneficial for swift embarkation. Also emergency embarkation below a tank is another thing. Such a polearm would never fit through.
I know that fantastic games with monsters & psi powers can´t adhere to realism although when even the mundane aspects don´t work you start to doubt the quality of the setting as a whole.
Prometheum5 wrote: You've just described pretty much every Night Lords model in my mind. I don't think there's any saving their established look.
That poor model makes me feel embarrassed just looking at it. Night lords as a concept are already a bit silly, I think their models need to be subtle to pull of their schtick and not look like He-Man villains.
look at the hooks on his chainmail tabbard. They forgot to sculpt detail behind the hook, so now there are just random metal chunks.
That....
is a sad thing to behold.
full-on schoolboy error from the people who are supposed to know better.
The whole 3d-printlines on resin models was the first warning wasn't it?
It´s more than this for me. I generally dislike all forms of polearm weapons for SM. Everybody who served in the military know of cramped interior conditions of tanks. So unwieldy stuff like this is not beneficial for swift embarkation. Also emergency embarkation below a tank is another thing. Such a polearm would never fit through.
I know that fantastic games with monsters & psi powers can´t adhere to realism although when even the mundane aspects don´t work you start to doubt the quality of the setting as a whole.
I mean, he is using a jump pack, so he won't be riding in a tank or going under one anyway. He'll probably just fly away.
Prometheum5 wrote: You've just described pretty much every Night Lords model in my mind. I don't think there's any saving their established look.
That poor model makes me feel embarrassed just looking at it. Night lords as a concept are already a bit silly, I think their models need to be subtle to pull of their schtick and not look like He-Man villains.
I was going to say that the Night Lords were the first of the marines to get Flanderised to the point of ridiculousness. But as far as I can tell, they've always been that way. Certainly the Space Wolves got more Yiffy and the Blood Angels got more.... bloody... over time. But the Night Lords have always been a bit batty. Right from the old Night Lord lord with his (as far as I can tell) 7 bat-winged skulls, the Night Lords conversion kit with the super duper bat-winged helmets and to a lesser extent, the OG 2nd ed raptors with their bat-winged jump packs (although they were a generic unit and may have pre-dated the aforelinked Lord, i'm not sure). Point is, they've always been ridiculous where as others have gotten ridiculous over time.
The bat-winged skull is fine as far as a Legion symbol goes. It's no more silly then any other. And I don't even mind a bit of skin wearing. Nothing quite strikes the fear into your foes like wearing their mothers face on your helmet. Even Chaos Marines as a whole have a long tradition of using skin as armour/banner adornments. So it's really not that strange or out of theme. But when you have little ribbons of it pinned to your back pack and a random patches nailed loosely here and there.... Well... it loses it's impact somewhat. Especially when it doesn't actually look like skin all that much.
So instead of getting the actually monstrous terror-wielding skin-mask wearing boogymen Legion, we got insane bat-winged backstabbing mustache twirling batmen Legion.
Had the Night Lords been done as they should have been (monsters under the bed who will come and punish you if you're naughty) I think they'd be far less of a joke and something of an actually "respected" Legion.
Prometheum5 wrote: You've just described pretty much every Night Lords model in my mind. I don't think there's any saving their established look.
That poor model makes me feel embarrassed just looking at it. Night lords as a concept are already a bit silly, I think their models need to be subtle to pull of their schtick and not look like He-Man villains.
I was going to say that the Night Lords were the first of the marines to get Flanderised to the point of ridiculousness. But as far as I can tell, they've always been that way. Certainly the Space Wolves got more Yiffy and the Blood Angels got more.... bloody... over time. But the Night Lords have always been a bit batty. Right from the old Night Lord lord with his (as far as I can tell) 7 bat-winged skulls, the Night Lords conversion kit with the super duper bat-winged helmets and to a lesser extent, the OG 2nd ed raptors with their bat-winged jump packs (although they were a generic unit and may have pre-dated the aforelinked Lord, i'm not sure). Point is, they've always been ridiculous where as others have gotten ridiculous over time.
The bat-winged skull is fine as far as a Legion symbol goes. It's no more silly then any other. And I don't even mind a bit of skin wearing. Nothing quite strikes the fear into your foes like wearing their mothers face on your helmet. Even Chaos Marines as a whole have a long tradition of using skin as armour/banner adornments. So it's really not that strange or out of theme. But when you have little ribbons of it pinned to your back pack and a random patches nailed loosely here and there.... Well... it loses it's impact somewhat. Especially when it doesn't actually look like skin all that much.
So instead of getting the actually monstrous terror-wielding skin-mask wearing boogymen Legion, we got insane bat-winged backstabbing mustache twirling batmen Legion.
Had the Night Lords been done as they should have been (monsters under the bed who will come and punish you if you're naughty) I think they'd be far less of a joke and something of an actually "respected" Legion.
The Night Lords borrowing from Vampire Counts (the WFB army) goes back to their initial design sketches in 2nd ed:
Spoiler:
And yeah, skin doesn't look that scary flapping in the breeze on a model, which is why I've stuck to hanging body parts (arms, hands, heads) and mounting skulls on them over trying to do skin. Plus casual corpse desecration is pretty on brand for them based on the Night Lords trilogy. It's basically habit by the time the Horus Heresy starts so I'm okay with getting a little silly with it, like I'm doing on my Spartan:
Spoiler:
But honestly how hard you want to lean into the mutilation and trophies of judgement schtick is really up to each person.
See, that's just a really cool idea which fits the theme perfectly.
Also color me curious, what're those actual bodies / body parts model wise? I take it some kind of Night Haunt corpse cart? I don't know much about AOS.
Snrub wrote: the OG 2nd ed raptors with their bat-winged jump packs (although they were a generic unit and may have pre-dated the aforelinked Lord, i'm not sure).
Raptors didn't happen until the first 3rd ed Chaos Codex(the 2nd ed Chaos Codex didn't have jump troops, much less Raptors) and predate the 3.5 Night Lord Lord. The Raptor wings actually had a purpose: Rules and fluffwise, they fit the wings to the jump pack to create a demoralizing scream using the in built wind pipes that formed the "fingers" of the wings. However, that rule existed only in their original entry in that first 3rd ed Codex.
morganfreeman wrote: See, that's just a really cool idea which fits the theme perfectly.
Also color me curious, what're those actual bodies / body parts model wise? I take it some kind of Night Haunt corpse cart? I don't know much about AOS.
Snrub wrote: the OG 2nd ed raptors with their bat-winged jump packs (although they were a generic unit and may have pre-dated the aforelinked Lord, i'm not sure).
Raptors didn't happen until the first 3rd ed Chaos Codex(the 2nd ed Chaos Codex didn't have jump troops, much less Raptors) and predate the 3.5 Night Lord Lord. The Raptor wings actually had a purpose: Rules and fluffwise, they fit the wings to the jump pack to create a demoralizing scream using the in built wind pipes that formed the "fingers" of the wings. However, that rule existed only in their original entry in that first 3rd ed Codex.
Also Raptors were mercenary units at the time of their introduction, and the Night Lords hadn't been flanderized into the 'All Raptors All The Time' Legion.
Maybe the playing up of the batwing theme through 3.5 and later editions was to get away from their 2nd edition 'Eavy Metal scheme, where any person asked to name the legion based on their appearance would surely have declared them to be the 'Lightning Lords' or Storm Lords'.
You know, this is all subjective. Have any of you considered that actual Night Lords fans actually like all of the skulls, bat wings, flayed skin, random body parts, and spikes? And maybe if you don't like those things, then the 8th Legion just isn't for you? Maybe just stick with the more "sedate" legions, with Roman helmet plumes and such, and leave the Night Lords models for the actual Night Lords fans. Cool?
Bat wings, hooks and chains, and flayed skin are all fine details for Night Lords. The problem is GW's design methodology that pushes to add as many details as possible to character models.
Everything has to be over the top and it results in models that look like 80s action figures.
Gadzilla666 wrote: You know, this is all subjective. Have any of you considered that actual Night Lords fans actually like all of the skulls, bat wings, flayed skin, random body parts, and spikes? And maybe if you don't like those things, then the 8th Legion just isn't for you? Maybe just stick with the more "sedate" legions, with Roman helmet plumes and such, and leave the Night Lords models for the actual Night Lords fans. Cool?
Night Lords decoration makes me think of the outrage when Gondor got its foot knights way back when. Swan knights or something like that? People trashed them for silly large helmet wings, with the problem being that they were silly large. Weta had wing designs on helmets and the models based on the movies were accepted just fine and formed the baseline for what expected of the model range, which was a largely realistic rendition of the movie characters. With the foot knights, GW had a GW moment and forgot what style they're supposed to work with.
I always get this same idea with the bat wing helmets, and to a lesser degree other decorations. It's not that people have an issue with the style, but the execution tends to get in the way I'd love to see GW make Night Lord helmets with reasonably sized wings (in plastic, because little resin wings suck). I think the Praetor posted above got the size right and the wings are a decent adornment that doesn't dominate the model, but the wings don't look very integrated, are too thick (probably because thin resin sucks) and look like they come out of a tacked on skull prop's cheekbones. All the elements that should be there are there, but they're just not very well done. Getting all those parts to mesh with each other and the armor they're built on is a really important thing to get right, and GW frequently* doesn't seem to be able to do that very well.
* In relative terms. Night Lords don't have a history of getting all that many models.
morganfreeman wrote: See, that's just a really cool idea which fits the theme perfectly.
Also color me curious, what're those actual bodies / body parts model wise? I take it some kind of Night Haunt corpse cart? I don't know much about AOS.
Vampire Counts Corpse Cart. I think it's still sold as part of the Soulblight army now.
Gadzilla666 wrote: You know, this is all subjective. Have any of you considered that actual Night Lords fans actually like all of the skulls, bat wings, flayed skin, random body parts, and spikes? And maybe if you don't like those things, then the 8th Legion just isn't for you? Maybe just stick with the more "sedate" legions, with Roman helmet plumes and such, and leave the Night Lords models for the actual Night Lords fans. Cool?
Night Lords decoration makes me think of the outrage when Gondor got its foot knights way back when. Swan knights or something like that? People trashed them for silly large helmet wings, with the problem being that they were silly large. Weta had wing designs on helmets and the models based on the movies were accepted just fine and formed the baseline for what expected of the model range, which was a largely realistic rendition of the movie characters. With the foot knights, GW had a GW moment and forgot what style they're supposed to work with.
I always get this same idea with the bat wing helmets, and to a lesser degree other decorations. It's not that people have an issue with the style, but the execution tends to get in the way I'd love to see GW make Night Lord helmets with reasonably sized wings (in plastic, because little resin wings suck). I think the Praetor posted above got the size right and the wings are a decent adornment that doesn't dominate the model, but the wings don't look very integrated, are too thick (probably because thin resin sucks) and look like they come out of a tacked on skull prop's cheekbones. All the elements that should be there are there, but they're just not very well done. Getting all those parts to mesh with each other and the armor they're built on is a really important thing to get right, and GW frequently* doesn't seem to be able to do that very well.
* In relative terms. Night Lords don't have a history of getting all that many models.
FW definitely did a better job with the Night Raptors and Sevetar with integreating the wings.
Gadzilla666 wrote: You know, this is all subjective. Have any of you considered that actual Night Lords fans actually like all of the skulls, bat wings, flayed skin, random body parts, and spikes? And maybe if you don't like those things, then the 8th Legion just isn't for you? Maybe just stick with the more "sedate" legions, with Roman helmet plumes and such, and leave the Night Lords models for the actual Night Lords fans. Cool?
Night Lords decoration makes me think of the outrage when Gondor got its foot knights way back when. Swan knights or something like that? People trashed them for silly large helmet wings, with the problem being that they were silly large. Weta had wing designs on helmets and the models based on the movies were accepted just fine and formed the baseline for what expected of the model range, which was a largely realistic rendition of the movie characters. With the foot knights, GW had a GW moment and forgot what style they're supposed to work with.
I always get this same idea with the bat wing helmets, and to a lesser degree other decorations. It's not that people have an issue with the style, but the execution tends to get in the way I'd love to see GW make Night Lord helmets with reasonably sized wings (in plastic, because little resin wings suck). I think the Praetor posted above got the size right and the wings are a decent adornment that doesn't dominate the model, but the wings don't look very integrated, are too thick (probably because thin resin sucks) and look like they come out of a tacked on skull prop's cheekbones. All the elements that should be there are there, but they're just not very well done. Getting all those parts to mesh with each other and the armor they're built on is a really important thing to get right, and GW frequently* doesn't seem to be able to do that very well.
* In relative terms. Night Lords don't have a history of getting all that many models.
Yes, execution is important. And I'd personally rate the Jump Praetor at the bottom of the available Night Lords models (though I still think it's "OK"), and agree with Zion that they did a better job with the wings with the Night Raptors and Sevatar's helmets (and the skull faces as well, along with the Terror Squad heads).
But when people start complaining about the wings in general, along with things like flayed skin, spikes, chains, etc, I really just have to think "This really just isn't the Legion for you". All of those things are pretty core to their identity. It's like complaining about bionics on Iron Hands models.
Also I find it inherently more frightening that dudes in sorta cartoonish colors and armor doing the ripping and tearing (along with enjoying it) compared to a more muted Super Soldier.
the bat wings are ok if a bit chunky, and the skin is fine (well if painted so it looks like a skin trophy, rather than a random bit of fabic or cardboard)
but that terrible skull helm, ugh, nasty, all the menace of a tellytubby
Gadzilla666 wrote: But when people start complaining about the wings in general, along with things like flayed skin, spikes, chains, etc, I really just have to think "This really just isn't the Legion for you". All of those things are pretty core to their identity. It's like complaining about bionics on Iron Hands models.
I don't think that anybody has been complaining about wings, flayed skin, spikes, chains etc. existing at all in this thread. It's specifically the implementation of (some of) those features which people have been highlighting as not being very well done (like for example the chain/hook with no texture behind it, or models being plastered in wings).
Batwinged skulls are a legion symbol for Night Lords and wearing those as decoration is really not far removed from the various other legion symbols used on Praetors and the like.
look at the hooks on his chainmail tabbard. They forgot to sculpt detail behind the hook, so now there are just random metal chunks.
That....
is a sad thing to behold.
full-on schoolboy error from the people who are supposed to know better.
The whole 3d-printlines on resin models was the first warning wasn't it?
It´s more than this for me. I generally dislike all forms of polearm weapons for SM. Everybody who served in the military know of cramped interior conditions of tanks. So unwieldy stuff like this is not beneficial for swift embarkation. Also emergency embarkation below a tank is another thing. Such a polearm would never fit through.
I know that fantastic games with monsters & psi powers can´t adhere to realism although when even the mundane aspects don´t work you start to doubt the quality of the setting as a whole.
I mean, he is using a jump pack, so he won't be riding in a tank or going under one anyway. He'll probably just fly away.
This NL model is not the only one with a polearm. Also fighting in any kind of cramped interiors (space hulk corridor, tunnels, etc.) will make such a weapon difficult or even worthless to use.
I wish that more helmets were shown. I was thinking of getting some Mark VI Marines for my Word Bearers, but I will be holding out until I see the helmets.
, plain and simple.
