wyomingfox wrote: Went to my FLGS and saw the rules for the Warhound vs the Heirophant Bio-Titan.
Warhoud is 720 points for 9 HP and 2 Shields (effectively 11 wounds) and is armour 14 in the front (effectively T10). Each turn a shield (AV12) can regenerate on a 5+ (effectively IWND). It also comes with 2 Turbo Lasers for free - 2 Str D AP 2 5" blasts each at BS4 and 96" range.
Bio-Titan comes it at 1000 points and gets 10 wounds, T9, IWND, FNP, Regenerate and a 2+ Armour. It also comes with 2 Bio-Cannons - 6 Str 10 AP 3 shots each at BS 3 and 48" range. My foot print on the Bio-Titan is roughly 10-11" in diameter.
In a match up the cheaper warhound will inflict 13.667 wounds on average in a single shooting phase (at BS4 plus the massive footprint of the Bio-Titan, you don't have to worry about scattering). These bypass its armour saves, cover saves, and FNP.
In return, the Biotitan can strip the 2 shields off the warhound and cause a further 1.83 wounds/HP...assuming that the warhound doesn't have cover save as Bio-Cannons don't bypass cover saves.
A few points/questions...
1) Does the Hierophant get It Will Not Die AND Regenerate? That seems odd.
2) Does the Hierophant still get any of the melee biomorphs from the codex, such as Scything Talons or Lash Whips?
3) Don't forget that the Warhound has different armour facings. Assuming this in unchanged, it'll be effective T9 to the side and T8 on the rear. It is also more vulnerable to lance and melta weapons than a GC.
4) Unless it's changed, Void shields don't work within 12", which is also the range many melta and other AP1 weapons will work at.
5) Explode damage results on the Warhound will result in extra lost HP. This is pretty easy to achieve with AP1/2 weapons. However it is difficult (but not impossible) to inflict ID attacks to get D3 wounds on a Hierophant.
6) The Hierophant enjoys from protection against non-Destroyer weapons thanks to FNP and it's 6++ invuln save.
and finally...
7) Put a Hierophant in melee with a Warhound. See who wins then.
The problem isn't the Warhound, it's the Destroyer Weapons being free and so powerful still. A more balanced approach would be to have say the Warhound be 700 points with a pair of Vulcan Mega bolters- free swap to inferno blastgun, 75 points to plasma blastgun, 150 points for the turbolasers.
1) Does the Hierophant get It Will Not Die AND Regenerate? That seems odd.
GC in general get IWND and FNP. Hierophant gets regenerate.
2) Does the Hierophant still get any of the melee biomorphs from the codex, such as Scything Talons or Lash Whips?
I recall lashwhips
3) Don't forget that the Warhound has different armour facings. Assuming this in unchanged, it'll be effective T9 to the side and T8 on the rear. It is also more vulnerable to lance and melta weapons than a GC.
Warhound has 96" range guns, so can limmit its exposure to its rear facing. In a mexican standoff, the warhound should be able to park itself in a corner so as to maximize its front facing.
4) Unless it's changed, Void shields don't work within 12", which is also the range many melta and other AP1 weapons will work at.
Changed. IIRC, they don't work in CC. That is the only way you bypass them.
5) Explode damage results on the Warhound will result in extra lost HP. This is pretty easy to achieve with AP1/2 weapons. However it is difficult (but not impossible) to inflict ID attacks to get D3 wounds on a Hierophant.
Our only shooting attack that is AP2/AP1 is Zoes and Bio Plasma on carnies. I guess you could pod a bunch of Zoes down...but still.
6) The Hierophant enjoys from protection against non-Destroyer weapons thanks to FNP and it's 6++ invuln save.
and finally...
Hierophant is more vulnerable to Str 6-7 weapons, ID weapons (causes 1D3 wounds each) and Poison Weapons (I don't recall any special rules that protect it against poison weapons). I don't recall seeing a invulnerable save either.
7) Put a Hierophant in melee with a Warhound. See who wins then
.
I can't see a Hirophant getting in CC with a Warhound.
Seriously? Someone thought the ridiculously underpriced dual turbolaser Warhound needed to be cheaper?
Meanwhile the Heirophant comes with two - 6 shot S10 AP3 guns at BS 3...that is 2 dead transports a turn (maybe)... or possibly a dead MC...or 3-4 HP off a super heavy! All for 1000 points .
I can't believe they kept the Warhound so cheap. I mean, look at the new Lord of Skulls - are they really saying that the Warhound, both better protected and armed should cost LESS than that? This is definitely an issue with the Titan pricing. Then again, that's always been the case unless you bring deep striking melta. I wish they'd at least tried to fix the Titans, they clearly did try for the Hierophant and things, why make the Warhound so stupid?
Its the dumb gun pricing, a dual inferno warhound is barely worth 700 either, although would probably be dead fun to use in an infantry heavy game
As to the bunker, they had to leave it un-manned, otherwise balance on it is garbage if available to all armies, picking targets would have been nice, but I can still clearly see a use for these (especially in Apocalypse, three or four make for some scary parts of the board to try and enter).
GC in general get IWND and FNP. Hierophant gets regenerate.
IWND isn't on the leaked scan page of GC rules, just FNP.
Hierophant is more vulnerable to Str 6-7 weapons, ID weapons (causes 1D3 wounds each) and Poison Weapons (I don't recall any special rules that protect it against poison weapons). I don't recall seeing a invulnerable save either.
There aren't that many ID weapons that work outside of melee, and with lash whips and S10 AP2 it's pretty unlikely those will get to strike.
GC's are wounded by poison on 6+ (unless the strength would be better).
According to some other rumours it has a 6++ invuln just like in 4th edition. I haven't seen the book myself yet.
How is it more vulnerable to S6/7? If anything, FNP makes it less vulnerable.
I can't see a Hirophant getting in CC with a Warhound.
.
There are several ways to get it across the board quickly, including various strategic assets that allow outflank-type moves. The best option I see is All Out Attack to move 36" then charge. Ideally you want it tied up in melee with something fearless that will survive the first round of assault, so it can't be shot in your opponent's turn.
Meanwhile the Heirophant comes with two - 6 shot S10 AP3 guns at BS 3...that is 2 dead transports a turn (maybe)... or possibly a dead MC...or 3-4 HP off a super heavy! All for 1000 points .
Don't forget that it can benefit from Preferred Enemy when shooting (which is pretty easy to get). I also don't see the Hierophant primarily as a shooting unit like the Warhound, but rather something you shove as hard as you can into the enemy line and force them to deal with or else... like most Nids. It can also benefit from the Reanimate strategic asset to come back to life (and start regenerating wounds again).
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the Warhound isn't good. It's just mainly that the new Destroyer rules are pretty unbalanced and should have been reflected by a higher points cost when units have the option to take them. You're also kinda comparing apples to oranges by putting a ranged shooty unit with undercosted weapons up against a short-to-mid range linebreaker unit that synergizes really well with the rest of it's army.
As the same Agile rule has Warhound titan and has said before 6++ save.
For the Tesseract Vault and C'tan;
Tesseract Vault.
Super Heavy skimmer( because its a super heavy it can't Jinks)
315pts
Living Metal.
Power of the C'tan; when a Vault fires, use the LoS and range from the C'tan.
Chained One Vengeance(please bear in mind that i use the french version of the book, so my translation of this, might be approximative); When the Vault loose its last HP, the Vault automatically takes a Apocalyptic Explosion, no nedd to roll on the catastrophic damage table.
Options; a Vault MUSt choose 2 of the following powers.
Cosmic fire-----------60pts Hellstorm S6 AP2 Heavy 1
Star fall----------------115pts 48" S7 Ap3 Primary Weapon 6 Apocalyptic Barrage
Transdimensional maelstorm---------120pts 36" S9 Ap2 Primary Weapon Apocalyptic Explosion
Shockwave-----------------120pts Hellstorm S: D AP1 Primary Weapon1
Anti-matter Meteora-----------150pts ;48" S 10/8/6 Ap1/2/3 Primary Weapon1, Mega Apocalyptic Explosion
Sismic Assault/Attack.------------200pts ; 48" S8 Ap3 Heavy 6D6
For info Primary Weapons works like Ordenance weapons, you roll 2 dices for Penetration and pick the highest.
Also for those of you who have the old green barrage template, you can use it, but it says in the book that the deviation would work a bit different then with the new barrage templates.
Transcandent c'tan.
GC 420pts
WS6, BS6, S9, T9, W6, I5, A8, LD10, Save3+
transcandent necroderm; 4++save, when he lost his last wound all the models in a 4D6" radius takes a S10 Ap2 hit.
Options;
he must choose 1 of the following powers.
Divine Firestorm; At the end of the move phase center the large explosion template on the C'tan, all the models( friends or foe, except the C'tan) takes a S6 Ap3, ignore covers hit, vehicles are hit on their flanks.
Sismic Shockwave : Stomp attacks of the C'tan are made with the large blast template, not the little blast.
Transliminale Step/Leap ; In place of moving the C'tan can decide to make a special move of 18" in a straigth line, ignoring all terrains or models in its trajectory. All modesl friends or foe, on the trajectory takes a S; D Ap- hit, a C'tan who uses this ability can't assault in the same turn.
A C'tan must choose 2 of the following powers.
Those are identically the same has with the vault, pts cost are identical.
I really hate the 6 rolls for D weapons. 2-5 is fine IMO, very powerful but it should be. The 6 results are stupid though - a single shot can kill a Biotitan, any Baneblade sized vehicle or the new Lord of Skulls. I mean, really? Why? Did that sound like fun to anybody? That sort of thing made vortex grenades broken even for apoc standard before, why would you make EVERYTHING possibly like that? Do Space Marines even have a reason not to field 16 psykers in 4 groups of 4 to launch around those S D large vortexes? Bleh. Even letting inv saves be taken vs S D won't save the Biotitan if it's only got a 6++. It's a weird conundrum where the best possible army now is foot guard because your thousands of men give no feths about S D large blasts. I don't really understand why you would make almost any non-titan super heavy/gargantuan so useless in the face of S D.
Also, the Finest Hour traits look fantastic, yet Exemplar Personality is so pointless. Warlord rerolls all his "To Wound" rolls? Who cares when you could give all your guys within 24" FNP? ID and armour ignoring attacks? Why bother when I can bring back my Titan? It just seems weird, maybe it'd be worth it if your Warlord was a Baneblade command tank but I can't see them surviving for more than 10 seconds when the enemy has S D weapons.
Overall, I'm still excited but S D will need to be reworked a lot. The guy with 5 pylons will be happy at least, those Titans are going to be a total joke to him.
I really don't see why they had to make D weapons ignore invulnerables. It makes it hard to believe any big legendary commander could survive for any length of time actually fighting in the field if all they have to rely on is a lucky roll against D weapons. It would have perfectly fit the image of 40K and humanity being small fry in the grand scheme for the daemon/Phoenix Lord/Chaos Lord to somehow stagger out of a massive steaming crater of a D weapon hit, while the human gunners look on amazed and aghast at how they survived such a hit.
xttz wrote: What about the Hierodule, has that changed at all? What's the new points cost?
Hierodule is a GC, 565pts
2 Biocanons
Scything talons
Agile
WS4, BS3, S10, T8, W6, I3, A5, LD10, save 3+
Also funny thing about nids is that they Can use IG's formations, the fluff excuse is that they are used has Genestealers Cult, who have stolen Ig tanks and materials, they also takes the Lost and damned Chaos formation has an example
Stompas have :
Killer(Killa?) Kanon-S10 Ap1 72" Huge explosion,
Super Gatling and still use the Psycho-blasta-rama rule
3 Super rokitz
Karbonizator(Scorcha?)
Mega-Kikoup( don't know the name in english), its a D Ap1 melee weapon.
12Hp's, Av13/13/12
770pts and 2 additional Super Rokits for 20pts each.
there is also in the Armageddon Warzone the Mek-Stompa and he can take a Belly Killer Kanon
Wuuuuut? We pay round 170 more points for the same stuff and stats we had before? I know the super rokkits became large blast but as far as I remember we lost co-axial on our super-gatler. Games workshop reaaaaaaaally wants to nerf the older kits don't they? Good thing we can just reprice it appropriately and use IA8 and equivalents instead. Bunch of spankers GW are > I bet Ward had something to do with this....
I cant find any allowance for super heavy walkers or GC to move through or over enemy units. Also there doesnt seem to be any rules that keep these units from being tarpitted in close combat.
Grimskul wrote: Wuuuuut? We pay round 170 more points for the same stuff and stats we had before? I know the super rokkits became large blast but as far as I remember we lost co-axial on our super-gatler. Games workshop reaaaaaaaally wants to nerf the older kits don't they? Good thing we can just reprice it appropriately and use IA8 and equivalents instead. Bunch of spankers GW are > I bet Ward had something to do with this....
Owning the IA8 book means I never take a stock stompa. for that same 770ish I get a klawstompa that wrecks face in close combat with a power field and a deff arsenal for 3d6 lascannon shots. I suppose the blast rule was to get around supa rokkits being the best AA without skyfire.
Gargoyles Swarm; The Harridan can act as a open topped transport for 1 Swarm of 20 Gargoyles.
If the Harridan is killed while the swarm is still "embarked" each gargoyle makes an Init test, those who fails are removed from play, remove then the Harridan model and place the Gargoyles in the space that the Harridan occupied and more then 1" from ennemy models, the Swarm can then act normaly.
wyomingfox wrote:I cant find any allowance for super heavy walkers or GC to move through or over enemy units. Also there doesnt seem to be any rules that keep these units from being tarpitted in close combat.
Walkers and GC are basiccaly Bigger Walkers and MC's, so appart from the extra rules, they use the normal rules sets for combat and be in contact with ennemy models.
But tarpitting a SHW or GC would be difficulte, the darn things are nearly invulnerable, you have to make explodes damages to the Walkers, and GC as a huge amount of Wounds, plus the Stomps attacks really helps to clear ennemy units.
Slayer le boucher wrote: But tarpitting a SHW or GC would be difficulte, the darn things are nearly invulnerable, you have to make explodes damages to the Walkers, and GC as a huge amount of Wounds, plus the Stomps attacks really helps to clear ennemy units.
Damaging it isn't the point. Let's say I charge a titan with a blob of guardsmen (with commissars to ensure they never fail their morale checks). The titan can't kill them fast enough to get out of combat before it misses a shooting phase or two, and may not even be able to escape combat before the game ends (especially when many Apocalypse games only last 2-3 turns). Since a titan's entire purpose is to kill things by shooting that means that the tarpit unit has effectively removed the titan from the game.
In the old Apocalypse rules this wasn't a problem because you always had to fall back after ending a round of combat with a superheavy vehicle or GC, which would free it to act normally during its own turn and made attacking one with a tarpit completely pointless.
Well don't forget that if a unit is in CC with a unit that has no means to harm it in any way, they automatically fallback, or something like this can't really remember, its the "Our weapons doesn't work" rule, or is it "Our weapons are ineffective"?..., can't remember.
Grimskul wrote: Wuuuuut? We pay round 170 more points for the same stuff and stats we had before? I know the super rokkits became large blast but as far as I remember we lost co-axial on our super-gatler. Games workshop reaaaaaaaally wants to nerf the older kits don't they? Good thing we can just reprice it appropriately and use IA8 and equivalents instead. Bunch of spankers GW are > I bet Ward had something to do with this....
Owning the IA8 book means I never take a stock stompa. for that same 770ish I get a klawstompa that wrecks face in close combat with a power field and a deff arsenal for 3d6 lascannon shots. I suppose the blast rule was to get around supa rokkits being the best AA without skyfire.
So can we still take the IA8 kustom stompa rules? The new apoc book doesn't invalidate them or anything? I'm assuming we just change supa rokkits in the IA8 book to large blast then to coincide with the new rules?
Slayer le boucher wrote: Well don't forget that if a unit is in CC with a unit that has no means to harm it in any way, they automatically fallback, or something like this can't really remember, its the "Our weapons doesn't work" rule, or is it "Our weapons are ineffective"?..., can't remember.
All that rule does is give you the option to fail a morale test. You're not forced to fall back.
Yes you can use the old formations and datasheets by just converting the Structure points to HP's, the ratio is 1/3, One Structure point=3HP.
Now for using an old version of a formation/SH that had a new version in the book, its houseruling, gotta see if the other players agreed to this, if they do, then nothing keeping you from doing it.
About tarpiting Titans and such, well if your Reaver titan who's all waaaay back in the field on his table border gets tarpitted in CC, then i have bad news for you, you are allready loosing the game.
And the event of ennemy units who are fast enough or use an asset to come close enough, you should always keep some foot units to guard the Titan feets.
But then again it all depends on how the battle goes.
I think the Redoubt was solely put in place for deamons flying circus, csm heldrakes and perhaps necron scyths. Lets face it those armies just hijacked the flying rules and changed the game, mostly the heldrake. Automated targeting is fine really, lets face it.
HOWEVER since it cant be manned, does that mean your opponent cannot take it over? like he otherwise could your Icarus las cannon or quad gun?
I wish they would make at least some greater attempt at point costing the Titan weapons. Many of the weapons just seem outright worse and have no redeeming features, not even cost. Example is the Revenant. Exchanging its pulsars for sonic lances is a downgrade but gives no discount/savings in points.
Utterly baffling too is the removal of the Phantom D-Cannon's ignoring of void shields ability. The whole point of that was to allow it to pose a threat to shielded Titans, which can now comfortably laugh off the "mere" 1 D shot the D-Cannon now puts out. Phantoms with dual pulsars seems to be the only way to go, especially given how Warhounds are walking around with dual turbo-lasers and Reavers with las-blasters.
Grimskul wrote: Wuuuuut? We pay round 170 more points for the same stuff and stats we had before? I know the super rokkits became large blast but as far as I remember we lost co-axial on our super-gatler. Games workshop reaaaaaaaally wants to nerf the older kits don't they? Good thing we can just reprice it appropriately and use IA8 and equivalents instead. Bunch of spankers GW are > I bet Ward had something to do with this....
Owning the IA8 book means I never take a stock stompa. for that same 770ish I get a klawstompa that wrecks face in close combat with a power field and a deff arsenal for 3d6 lascannon shots. I suppose the blast rule was to get around supa rokkits being the best AA without skyfire.
Then new stompa datasheet is just sad. More expensive, less guns. It can shoot a warhound to death in about 17 rounds, the warhound can kill it in 1 round. I'll also be using the FW rules. Just stupid not to.
The skullhammer also got screwed. Not fast anymore, not open topped.
I like the Apocalypse book, but hate what they did with the orks.
The titans are horribly underpriced and the Str D weapons make it far worse.
Stock Guardsmen can't charge Titans, since you can't charge a vehicle that you can't hurt. Throw some melta bombs on there and it's a different story, but yeah.
I don't understand why GW is only releasing the rules for the Vengeance Weapon Battery & Firestorm Redoubt in the box. I thought they'd be in the Apoc book, but at least in my ibooks version I only see rules for the Aquila Strongpoint (as well as a few 'formations' that use them, but not their actual rules). I mean, hell they're not even selling the rules on ibooks for some reason. Its really odd.
And it does seem as though GW has totally and completely given up with this edition of Apoc. I would be okay with the Destroyer weapon change if they were incredibly rare and expensive, but having a Warhound basically have 4 Destroyer weapons for only 700+ points means Warhounds beat everything for their points cost, and just ridiculously so. Tying them up in combat now seems like the only real plan of attack.
Its just crazy. D-weapons either should have been changed to be really effective against Titans and Gargantuan Creatures (but not so good against lesser creatures and vehicles) or they should be insanely expensive and rare. Yet they basically kept the one points cost titan concept and allow players to pick any weapons for free, when the D-weapons are now even more of a no-brainer than they ever were. It is just nutty.
Finally, this book leaves a bunch of FW stuff in complete limbo...stuff like why is the Thunderhawk Gunship only for Space Marines now? Why were the only things left out of the old Apocalypse book the (standard) Brass Scorpion and the Plaguereaper (the Nurgle Baneblade)?
I really love the simplification they did with the Super-Heavy and Gargantuan Creature rules a LOT, but then they go throw it all way by not pricing D-Weapons appropriately at all.
Hang on does chaos get a warhound in the book? (mines in the post and aus post is rubbish) and did they really say loyalist stuff cant be used by CSM?... though Yak there is the rule that superheavies are usable by everyone. so i spose that gets around it. cos i aint benching my thunderhawk lol
About the Thunderhawk, CSm can use it, has it is sais on the first page of the Chaos Section.
It says that CSM can use all the Imperials datasheets and formation.
Look at Page 118, Writing History thingy.
I know that this text box is generally ignored by many poeple in the Rulebook or codexes, but here it has some precious informations.
With this CSM uses Imperial stuff, Orks can use anything( even Cron or Tau stuffs, if it is correctly converted), Taus can use IG stuff for Auxillairies, and even NIds can use Imperial datasheets with Genestealer Cult vibe.
The only ones that don't really have an excuse of doing so are Crons and Eldars .
Ah yes, the forging the narrative boxes, that does clear things up nicely, thanks for that (missed those on my first read through).
And no, there is no specific CSM Warhound in this book. Those rules still technically exist in IAA 2nd edition. Or I guess you can take a 'traitor' version of the Imperial one from the Apoc book if you wanted (which it seems like you would).
I understand that Apocalypse is not intended to be competitive but if you include point costs, they should make make some sense. This is not even about WAAC players, stupid point costs will lead to players making unbalanced armies by accident. If point costs are not connected to the usefulness or power of the thing in the game then why even have them? Of course players can agree to limit destroyer weapons and other OP stuff, but if balancing the armies relies on the players analysing the options and then deciding what is OK to take and what not, then the designers have not done their job. I understand the designers are just people and it might be difficult to predict power of certain combinations, but such a basic thing as comparing individual weapons shouldn't be that hard.
Very saddened yet not surprised at how much effort they didn't put into this book. I sorta wrote off this version of the apoc rulebook due to the writing of the rulebook and current codices but I figured it would given inspiration for my groups own custom rules..
The change to strength D is just ridiculous and I plan to simply make it a weapon property that applies to super heavies and gargantuan creatures.
yakface wrote: Why were the only things left out of the old Apocalypse book the (standard) Brass Scorpion and the Plaguereaper (the Nurgle Baneblade)?
Neither of those two things has a kit you can buy on the shelf. And no, the FW Brass Scorpion is different. It's a bigger Brass Scorpion.
No kit? No rules.
Welcome to post-CHS Games Workshop.
Yeah, but the fortress of arrogance is in there, which is just a custom baneblade same as the plaguereaper.
The brass scorpion really isn't needed anymore since they have the FW one, but not including the plague reaper seems like an odd omission given literally every other unit either had newer IA rules for it in the interim or is included in this new book.
I got a look at the rulebook and templates today. The templates are really flimsy. Expect the tabs on the big one to break pretty quickly.
And I'm really annoyed that the big Necron formation isn't one Money Vault + 3-8 Monliths. It's a flat out 8 monoliths. I mean who the hell just has 8 Monoliths floating around?
yakface wrote: Yeah, but the fortress of arrogance is in there, which is just a custom baneblade same as the plaguereaper.
Medium of Death wrote: Is there any kind of Soul Grinder/Defiler formation or perhaps a Forgefiend formation?
The collectors edition has the pandorax warzone supplement, which has the plaguereaper, tower of skulls, greater brass scorpion and daemon forge... So was very worth it imho
H.B.M.C. wrote: I mean who the hell just has 8 Monoliths floating around?
No one, BUY MOAR.
Sarcasm aside it's not unheard of to loan models for bigger games to other players --- though tracking down 3-4 necron players all willing to donate their monoliths would be very difficult.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I mean who the hell just has 8 Monoliths floating around?
No one, BUY MOAR.
Sarcasm aside it's not unheard of to loan models for bigger games to other players --- though tracking down 3-4 necron players all willing to donate their monoliths would be very difficult.
Yeah. I'd probably house rule that it's a "shared formation" or something(unless we were using points limit) so that everyone can contribute to an absolutely absurd idea.
I do, i have 10 Monoliths, got alot of them cheap in bundle deals off ebay, 8 of them are made (just the right amount lol) and the other few i was thinking of using for terrain pieces.
I don't even know why you'd want to field it anyway. Monoliths on their own are bad and AFAIK it only buffs the Tesseract Vault + grants inv save. All people will do is immediately snipe the Vault with any S D weapon and then you're boned. I miss the old Monolith formation.
My local GW (Cincinnati) posted this up last night. Inspired. Right or wrong I'm all about making up my own formations/rules/etc. Apoc is really just a bity of structured chaos anyways.
Leighjt wrote:The collectors edition has the pandorax warzone supplement, which has the plaguereaper, tower of skulls, greater brass scorpion and daemon forge... So was very worth it imho
That's interesting, hopefully it comes to a general release audience.
To take that model and turn it into this is highly impressive.
Eyjio which formation to you mean, the Doomsday Monolith one where the command mono got an extra 7" blast for every mono in the formation that decided not to shoot or the one where they created an invisble line between them and any shots through the line were reduced by 1 strength per line it went through and also no psychic powers could be targeted through them? (can't recall what it was called)
jgemrich wrote: My local GW (Cincinnati) posted this up last night. Inspired. Right or wrong I'm all about making up my own formations/rules/etc. Apoc is really just a bity of structured chaos anyways.
Leighjt wrote: The collectors edition has the pandorax warzone supplement, which has the plaguereaper, tower of skulls, greater brass scorpion and daemon forge... So was very worth it imho
Colour me surprised.
And they did say that that book would come out eventually.
The Warzone book. Does it have missions, or just formations?
Leighjt wrote:The collectors edition has the pandorax warzone supplement, which has the plaguereaper, tower of skulls, greater brass scorpion and daemon forge... So was very worth it imho
That's interesting, hopefully it comes to a general release audience.
Still holding out for a Swarm of Soul Grinders.
I wonder how one would do a Slaanshi lord of battles
... Why do I want to see a conversion of a really fat Great Unclean One in one of the disability scooters?
I suppose I missed the Dakka policy to submit pics for your approval prior to posting. As this thread is about apoc and recent conversation turned to models being produced or supported I thought it was a worthy conversion to share with the community and one that I'd be happy to play against even with some DIY rules.
If your contribution is to state that you don't want to see it or contributions from me in the future I'd recommend the hide user functionality.
... Why do I want to see a conversion of a really fat Great Unclean One in one of the disability scooters?
I suppose I missed the Dakka policy to submit pics for your approval prior to posting. As this thread is about apoc and recent conversation turned to models being produced or supported I thought it was a worthy conversion to share with the community and one that I'd be happy to play against even with some DIY rules.
If your contribution is to state that you don't want to see it or contributions from me in the future I'd recommend the hide user functionality.
Cheers
I believe you misinterpreted him. What I think he meant was "I now totally want to see a conversion of a really fat Great Unclean One in one of the disability scooters"
Crimson wrote: So am I correct in my assumption the even though new Wall of Martyrs got rules, the old pieces still lack them?
Yup.
You can take a "grand redoubt" formation which includes them, but there's no stated rules, so I'd imagine they're just a 4+ cover save. They're just terrain as for as normal 40k is concerned, nothing purchasable.
Eyjio wrote:Could you give us all a hint of the formations from the other warzone if that's okay?
H.B.M.C. wrote:The Warzone book. Does it have missions, or just formations?
Pandorax Warzonne (68 pages)
Dark Angels vs. Chaos Space Marines
4 Missions
9 Strategic Assets
Finest Hours for Abaddon, Azreal and Col.Strike
Formations:
Chaos Space Marines
The Chose of Abaddon: 3-5 Lords or Sorcerers, 1 Chosen or Terminators unit for each
Deamon Engine Pack: 3-5 Forgefiends/Maulerfiends
Great Brass Scorpion of Khorne
The Hounds of Huron: 1 Lord, 5+ Biker Squads
Khorne Tower of Skulls
Maelstrom of Gore: Lord or Kharne, 8 Khorne Berserker units
Plaguereaper of Nurgle
Trinity of Blood: 3 Khorne Lord of Skulls
Daemonic Forgehost: 3-5 Soul Grinders
Imperial Guard
Deathstrike Vortex Missile Battery: 3-5 Deathstrike Missile Launchers
'Emperor's Mercy' Commissariat Squad: 1 Lord Commissar, 3+ Commissars
Storm Trooper Mission Elite: 2+ StormTrooper squads, Valkerie for each
Traitor's Bane (Hellhammer)
Xerexes Airborne Support Wing: 3-5 Valkeries with Missile Pods
So yeah.. Am I the only one pissed of with the formations?
Examples:
Green Tide needs 10 units.
Cron Phalanx needs 10.
The Monolith one NEEDS 8!
I already miss the days where I could play Formations without spending another 300 Euro on models I will never use outside of Apoc. Eight liths, seriously -_-'
If you want to, yeah. At the end of the day, if you're playing in a club/at home with a bunch of friends, you can do what you want. It's only with tournaments where it matters, and even then they're a lot more "for the lulz" than most tournaments.
From what I've seen so far actually, the Titans appear to be the only real broken units though this does now include both Eldar titans (and good grief when you see the Eldar formations is it obvious Phil Kelly was one of the authors). D weapons are reasonably hard to come by and all have significant downsides to their usage on non-titans. It's an interesting problem for sure. Also, they reeeeally want al the Gargantuan creatures getting into combat ASAP. They're super durable and killy in assault but a little too squishy outside IMO.
Squigsquasher wrote: If you want to, yeah. At the end of the day, if you're playing in a club/at home with a bunch of friends, you can do what you want. It's only with tournaments where it matters, and even then they're a lot more "for the lulz" than most tournaments.
Yeah, I know.. but still..
Do you really want a book where you have to House-Rule 90% because nobody can field that amount of models?
I was very hopeful, since the Cron-thing had a line with "if at least 100 models". It made me believe that the minimum was 50 or so.
And I would really like to do the Wings of Sanguinius.. Then I read that I need at least 100 Assault Marines with JP's =/
When I read the one-click deals, I saw this line:
"This One-Click Collection contains all you need to field the Wings of Sanguinius Apocalypse Formation. It includes: 1 Blood Angels Vanguard Veteran; 1 Chaplain with Jump Pack; 1 The Sanguinor; 1 set of Sanguinary Guard; and 20 Assault Squads."
I thought they were greedy by instantly offering the maximum for that formation. Seems they were extra greedy since that crap is actually the 'minimum'!
Would it be that bad to make it "2-10" Assault Squads instead of "10!"?
It's not that I am opposed to buying models to finish a formation, but the minimum needed for those formations is just way too big.
And don't forget that the new book has over 100 of those! My entire group can probably ignore 90 out of those 100.
Eyjio wrote:Could you give us all a hint of the formations from the other warzone if that's okay?
H.B.M.C. wrote:The Warzone book. Does it have missions, or just formations?
Pandorax Warzonne (68 pages)
Dark Angels vs. Chaos Space Marines
4 Missions
9 Strategic Assets
Finest Hours for Abaddon, Azreal and Col.Strike
Formations:
Chaos Space Marines
The Chose of Abaddon: 3-5 Lords or Sorcerers, 1 Chosen or Terminators unit for each
Deamon Engine Pack: 3-5 Forgefiends/Maulerfiends
Great Brass Scorpion of Khorne
The Hounds of Huron: 1 Lord, 5+ Biker Squads
Khorne Tower of Skulls
Maelstrom of Gore: Lord or Kharne, 8 Khorne Berserker units
Plaguereaper of Nurgle
Trinity of Blood: 3 Khorne Lord of Skulls
Daemonic Forgehost: 3-5 Soul Grinders
Imperial Guard
Deathstrike Vortex Missile Battery: 3-5 Deathstrike Missile Launchers
'Emperor's Mercy' Commissariat Squad: 1 Lord Commissar, 3+ Commissars
Storm Trooper Mission Elite: 2+ StormTrooper squads, Valkerie for each
Traitor's Bane (Hellhammer)
Xerexes Airborne Support Wing: 3-5 Valkeries with Missile Pods
OK, I really hope this comes out soon. It seems to cover a number of the missing formations, and I'm glad to see a double Warhound formation. Will encourage me to finish painting mine and order a second.
Kangodo wrote: So yeah.. Am I the only one pissed of with the formations?
Examples:
Green Tide needs 10 units.
Cron Phalanx needs 10.
The Monolith one NEEDS 8!
I already miss the days where I could play Formations without spending another 300 Euro on models I will never use outside of Apoc. Eight liths, seriously -_-'
Remember, unless the formation specifices, you can run minimum sized units. For things like the Green Tide, you are actually far better off now. Before, it was a mob of 100+ boyz, which meant you could only take a single Nob. Now it is 10 units, so up to 10 nobz. It does make a cap of 300 boyz in the mob though.
The Cron Phalanx is 10 units, but minimum size of warrior units is only 5, so the minimum size formation is 50 warriors. Though the bonuses don't start stacking up until you hitt 100+ models in it.
Hmm true, I really forgot that they came in a minimum of 5 for some reason I thought it was 10.. I should learn my own army better! But the Wings-one is really 100 ASM!
And seeing that many Formations from Armageddon are 'low body count' makes me hopeful for future expansions
Yeah, 8 is way too much.. Especially when most Formation-rules in that thing only care about models within 3" I'll try to houserule those set-ups and hope people won't go "NO, CRONS CANNOT HAVE BUFFS!"
Well, I think it's one of the "best" ones.
50 Warriors > Fearless and Relentless
100 > better RP and Fear (even though a Res Orb does it too)
150 > insanely good RP
As you can see, it starts small and the more models you have the happier you get.
Unlike other formations it doesn't simply go 'Rulebook says no!' if you happen to lack 500 Euro of models.
And it doesn't require you to spend almost all of your points in one basket.
Like I said somewhere (here?) before: The Monolith thing is around 2100pnt minimum, compared to a minimum of 650 for the Warriors.
Maybe I am just jumping to conclusions to quickly, but from the info that I have read most Apocalypse-formations don't look very friendly or inviting to newer players.
In my opinion most formations need a minimum of 150 Euro of models and more models should be awesome, not a requirement.
Kangodo wrote: But the Wings-one is really 100 ASM!
And seeing that many Formations from Armageddon are 'low body count' makes me hopeful for future expansions
True on the Wings one, but all the other Space MArine companies are 100 models + command. The BA jump troop one and DA Deathwing company are in line with the generic SM Battle/Reserve/Veteran company. And it is a nice bit that you can take reserve companies. Same rules as the battle comnpany, you just choose 6 Tac/2 Assault/2 Dev, or 10 of the same.
Well, you need to waste D-weapons on them or else they get up on a 4+
You can't shoot/melee and hope they run, because they are Fearless.. That's the normal tactic people use in 40k
And no, only a Trazyn/Lychguard one that needs at least 1000 points of them.
I do like our new SHV and GMC btw ^^
So I will just link this link and claim I am not responsible for anything that has been said in there: http://boards.4chan.org/tg/res/25983723
Kangodo wrote: Well, you need to waste D-weapons on them or else they get up on a 4+
You can't shoot/melee and hope they run, because they are Fearless.. That's the normal tactic people use in 40k
And no, only a Trazyn/Lychguard one that needs at least 1000 points of them.
I do like our new SHV and GMC btw ^^
So I will just link this link and claim I am not responsible for anything that has been said in there: http://boards.4chan.org/tg/res/25983723
So they do get up after you kill everyone in the squad? Because normally that's how you stop necrons from Rezzing; kill everyone in the squad before they have a chance to roll. Or make them run away, but as you said that can't happen due to fearless.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: So they do get up after you kill everyone in the squad? Because normally that's how you stop necrons from Rezzing; kill everyone in the squad before they have a chance to roll. Or make them run away, but as you said that can't happen due to fearless.
Good luck killing 50 of them Even if you manage to kill 49, around 25 will get up.
So, Has anyone bought the new Wall of Martyrs kits? They are supposed to come with rules for 40k, I'm very intrested in hearing if that means we can buy them as fortifications now (And thus if they have point costs.) Or if those are just generic scenery piece rules like the ones in the 40k Rulebook. Especially the firestorm redoubt and Macro cannon which are rumored to be anti flier pieces have my intrest.
Edit: To clarify I am not looking for anyone to post the rules on here, Just a Yes they can be bought as fortifications or no they cannot.
Eyjio wrote:Could you give us all a hint of the formations from the other warzone if that's okay?
H.B.M.C. wrote:The Warzone book. Does it have missions, or just formations?
Pandorax Warzonne (68 pages)
Dark Angels vs. Chaos Space Marines
4 Missions
9 Strategic Assets
Finest Hours for Abaddon, Azreal and Col.Strike
Formations:
Chaos Space Marines
The Chose of Abaddon: 3-5 Lords or Sorcerers, 1 Chosen or Terminators unit for each
Deamon Engine Pack: 3-5 Forgefiends/Maulerfiends
Great Brass Scorpion of Khorne
The Hounds of Huron: 1 Lord, 5+ Biker Squads
Khorne Tower of Skulls
Maelstrom of Gore: Lord or Kharne, 8 Khorne Berserker units
Plaguereaper of Nurgle
Trinity of Blood: 3 Khorne Lord of Skulls
Daemonic Forgehost: 3-5 Soul Grinders
I would realkly love to know more on those, particulary the mealstorm of Gore, trinity of Blood, the Tower of Skulls and the Brass scorpion.
Guess that for the Scorpion and Tower , they simply added IWND, Deamon and Deamonforge rules?
Maybe a Points Price decrease in the Tower profil and got rid of his special regeneration rule in place for an upgraded IWND when it kills models or something?...
CthuluIsSpy wrote: So they do get up after you kill everyone in the squad? Because normally that's how you stop necrons from Rezzing; kill everyone in the squad before they have a chance to roll. Or make them run away, but as you said that can't happen due to fearless.
Good luck killing 50 of them Even if you manage to kill 49, around 25 will get up.
So they count as one whole squad then? That's pretty nasty.
NickOnwezen wrote: So, Has anyone bought the new Wall of Martyrs kits? They are supposed to come with rules for 40k, I'm very intrested in hearing if that means we can buy them as fortifications now (And thus if they have point costs.) Or if those are just generic scenery piece rules like the ones in the 40k Rulebook. Especially the firestorm redoubt and Macro cannon which are rumored to be anti flier pieces have my intrest.
Edit: To clarify I am not looking for anyone to post the rules on here, Just a Yes they can be bought as fortifications or no they cannot.
The Vengeance Turrets and Firestorm Redoubt both come with a rules pamphlet. They are fortifications with points costs for normal 40K. All the guns are automatic, you can't man them like you can the Aegis line or Bastion guns. Redoubt is fixed price, twice the cost of an aegis line with quad gun. Punisher cannon turret costs the same as the base price bastion, can buy a second, battle cannon upgrade is half a comm relay per turret.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: So they do get up after you kill everyone in the squad? Because normally that's how you stop necrons from Rezzing; kill everyone in the squad before they have a chance to roll. Or make them run away, but as you said that can't happen due to fearless.
Good luck killing 50 of them Even if you manage to kill 49, around 25 will get up.
So they count as one whole squad then? That's pretty nasty.
Yes, all the individual squads merge into a single unit. Orks have Green Tide, Crons now have Gunmetal tide.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: So they do get up after you kill everyone in the squad? Because normally that's how you stop necrons from Rezzing; kill everyone in the squad before they have a chance to roll. Or make them run away, but as you said that can't happen due to fearless.
Good luck killing 50 of them Even if you manage to kill 49, around 25 will get up.
So they count as one whole squad then? That's pretty nasty.
It's brutal. The only way to stop the unit is to fight them to the last man. Frankly I wouldn't ever run 100+, I'd run them in groups of 50 and stick in a Res Orb lord. The res orb is going to be stupidly hard to kill and 50 warriors with fearless is no joke. Besides, 50 warriors do what, ~5.6 glances per turn at 24"? Easily a threat to most things. I've also not seen the 72" limiter on "unlimited" abilities that FW used to recommend, so as it stands Immotekh casts lightning/darkness over the whole field. It's a good way to prevent the alpha strike before you can close in at least. Plus, as it's a unit of Necron Warriors, any nearby Ghost Ark can revive D3 models to the unit every turn. Certainly makes footcrons a lot scarier and unless your enemy is "wasting" D weapons on them, they will get those RP rolls. Of course, if they get in combat with any form of monstrous/gargantuan creature you're fairly doomed but it'll be a good death. I am on the fence with GCs - they're so squishy to shooting but they're horrifying in assault. The C'tan can launch an S D hellstorm and a bunch of barrages before assaulting too, then hits at S10 9 times on the charge, all ignoring armour. Alternatively they can stomp around. Sounds good... if they can ever make it, which I doubt. Hmm.
Firestorm redoubt and vengeance batteries are standard fortifications and can be used in regular 40k. Aquila strongpoint is a massive fortification and only has rules for APOC but says it can be used in 40k as a dilapidated bdlg (neutral, av-2, no functional weaponry)
CthuluIsSpy wrote: So they do get up after you kill everyone in the squad? Because normally that's how you stop necrons from Rezzing; kill everyone in the squad before they have a chance to roll. Or make them run away, but as you said that can't happen due to fearless.
Good luck killing 50 of them Even if you manage to kill 49, around 25 will get up.
So they count as one whole squad then? That's pretty nasty.
It's brutal. The only way to stop the unit is to fight them to the last man. Frankly I wouldn't ever run 100+, I'd run them in groups of 50 and stick in a Res Orb lord. The res orb is going to be stupidly hard to kill and 50 warriors with fearless is no joke. Besides, 50 warriors do what, ~5.6 glances per turn at 24"? Easily a threat to most things. I've also not seen the 72" limiter on "unlimited" abilities that FW used to recommend, so as it stands Immotekh casts lightning/darkness over the whole field. It's a good way to prevent the alpha strike before you can close in at least. Plus, as it's a unit of Necron Warriors, any nearby Ghost Ark can revive D3 models to the unit every turn. Certainly makes footcrons a lot scarier and unless your enemy is "wasting" D weapons on them, they will get those RP rolls. Of course, if they get in combat with any form of monstrous/gargantuan creature you're fairly doomed but it'll be a good death. I am on the fence with GCs - they're so squishy to shooting but they're horrifying in assault. The C'tan can launch an S D hellstorm and a bunch of barrages before assaulting too, then hits at S10 9 times on the charge, all ignoring armour. Alternatively they can stomp around. Sounds good... if they can ever make it, which I doubt. Hmm.
page 51 mentions limiting range of table wife abilities to 72-" so while its not a written rule it's not unexpected to limit certain things.
Slayer le boucher wrote: I would realkly love to know more on those, particulary the mealstorm of Gore, trinity of Blood, the Tower of Skulls and the Brass scorpion.
Guess that for the Scorpion and Tower , they simply added IWND, Deamon and Deamonforge rules?
Maybe a Points Price decrease in the Tower profil and got rid of his special regeneration rule in place for an upgraded IWND when it kills models or something?...
Great Brass Scorpion of Khorne - 150pts more, Daemon, Daemonforge, Fleet, It Will Not Die, Doomsday Reactor, Runes of the Blood God
Khorne Tower of Skulls - 50pts more, +1 BS, Daemon, Daemonforge, It Will Not Die, Doomsday Reactor, Reknit Form, Runes of the Blood God
Maelstrom of Gore - if within 18" of Lord/Kharn gains Fleet, Move Through Cover and +3" charge move
Trinity of Blood - all non-vehicles (friend or foe) within 12" gain Rage for remainder of phase, once per game all non-flyer/skimmer/jet enemy models within 24" must take dangerous terrain tests.
And the Mealstorm of Gore...sucks you can't use such things in regular 40k, would solve the Problems of the Zerkers...
Trinity of blood seems nice, but seeing that i play exclusifly with Mark of Khorne units...the rage is a bit useless..., maybe with Crons or taus allies but even so.
Kasrkin52 wrote: What does the storm trooper mission elite formation do?
Storm the Objective - In any turn it disembarks, unit may shoot, run, and shoot again (second shot may be at different target). In addition, all attacks this turn have Ignore Cover.
Vital Mission - At beginning of first turn choose Strategic Objective in enemy deployment zone. At end of each session, if unit from this formation holds it, it is worth an additional point.
tetrisphreak wrote: Firestorm redoubt and vengeance batteries are standard fortifications and can be used in regular 40k. Aquila strongpoint is a massive fortification and only has rules for APOC but says it can be used in 40k as a dilapidated bdlg (neutral, av-2, no functional weaponry)
CthuluIsSpy wrote: So they do get up after you kill everyone in the squad? Because normally that's how you stop necrons from Rezzing; kill everyone in the squad before they have a chance to roll. Or make them run away, but as you said that can't happen due to fearless.
Good luck killing 50 of them Even if you manage to kill 49, around 25 will get up.
So they count as one whole squad then? That's pretty nasty.
It's brutal. The only way to stop the unit is to fight them to the last man. Frankly I wouldn't ever run 100+, I'd run them in groups of 50 and stick in a Res Orb lord. The res orb is going to be stupidly hard to kill and 50 warriors with fearless is no joke. Besides, 50 warriors do what, ~5.6 glances per turn at 24"? Easily a threat to most things. I've also not seen the 72" limiter on "unlimited" abilities that FW used to recommend, so as it stands Immotekh casts lightning/darkness over the whole field. It's a good way to prevent the alpha strike before you can close in at least. Plus, as it's a unit of Necron Warriors, any nearby Ghost Ark can revive D3 models to the unit every turn. Certainly makes footcrons a lot scarier and unless your enemy is "wasting" D weapons on them, they will get those RP rolls. Of course, if they get in combat with any form of monstrous/gargantuan creature you're fairly doomed but it'll be a good death. I am on the fence with GCs - they're so squishy to shooting but they're horrifying in assault. The C'tan can launch an S D hellstorm and a bunch of barrages before assaulting too, then hits at S10 9 times on the charge, all ignoring armour. Alternatively they can stomp around. Sounds good... if they can ever make it, which I doubt. Hmm.
page 51 mentions limiting range of table wife abilities to 72-" so while its not a written rule it's not unexpected to limit certain things.
It's a typo, I realise that, but this did make me chuckle!
My table wife makes sandwiches and bakes delicious munchies for our group while we play, thank God we now get scheduled sustenance breaks in game! No more, "move that dipbowl so I can move my units!". I lied the dip bowl is iimpassable terrain!
NickOnwezen wrote: So, Has anyone bought the new Wall of Martyrs kits? They are supposed to come with rules for 40k, I'm very intrested in hearing if that means we can buy them as fortifications now (And thus if they have point costs.) Or if those are just generic scenery piece rules like the ones in the 40k Rulebook. Especially the firestorm redoubt and Macro cannon which are rumored to be anti flier pieces have my intrest.
Edit: To clarify I am not looking for anyone to post the rules on here, Just a Yes they can be bought as fortifications or no they cannot.
There is a fortification datasheet where you can take a number of pieces from the wall of martyrs,
It's called the grand redoubt.
It requires 1 aquila strongpoint minimum, and a minimum of 6 of a certain combination between; imperial defense lines, bunkers, defense implacements, bastions, fortress of redemption, skyshield, firestorm redoubt and vengeance weapon batteries.
You still pay points for everything, but since certain things don't have point values, you can take as many as you want. Some are 0+, others are 0-2 or 0-1. Only the aquila strongpoints are 1+.
There's not a whole lot of artwork in the entire thing, really. Most of the visuals are just photographs. You could play Where's Waldo and look for broken and improperly assembled models though.
I haven't had a chance to look through the book yet, since our copy comes in next week :( , but how are the doing SHV for space marines? Will you still need to take a force org of guard in order to get a baneblade or are you able to take them independently now?
Yeah some of the formations are ridiculously heavy on obligatory models...
Well for those that collects them long enough its nothing, but for the others...
Yes i know 2 people with 18 and 13 Monoliths..., don't ask why...
But its funny that some formation are troops cheap, like the DE Carnival of Pain, only one Heamonculus or Urien and 3+ Talos/Cronos, de rest is all optionnal.
dienekes96 wrote: Is there ANY new art besides the cover? The last Apoc book only had a few new pieces in it, but they were pretty great pieces.
There is more photos and dioramas then illustrations, only 4 new Illustrations, not counting those coming from other codexs and the old apoc, and 5 if you count the Steel legion flags and stuff from the Armageddon warzone section.
... Why do I want to see a conversion of a really fat Great Unclean One in one of the disability scooters?
I suppose I missed the Dakka policy to submit pics for your approval prior to posting. As this thread is about apoc and recent conversation turned to models being produced or supported I thought it was a worthy conversion to share with the community and one that I'd be happy to play against even with some DIY rules.
If your contribution is to state that you don't want to see it or contributions from me in the future I'd recommend the hide user functionality.
Cheers
You completely misunderstood what he was saying.
But even if you didn't, getting completely offended that somebody might not like something you posted seems awfully juvenile.
Kasrkin52 wrote: What does the storm trooper mission elite formation do?
Storm the Objective - In any turn it disembarks, unit may shoot, run, and shoot again (second shot may be at different target). In addition, all attacks this turn have Ignore Cover.
Vital Mission - At beginning of first turn choose Strategic Objective in enemy deployment zone. At end of each session, if unit from this formation holds it, it is worth an additional point.
Sounds similar to the older formation but better. Thanks for the info!
Don't know if anybody is interested, but here is a size comparison of the standard Necron scarab and the two that come in the Tesseract Vault kit. The standard scarab is the largest on the left.
tetrisphreak wrote: Aquila strongpoint is a massive fortification and only has rules for APOC but says it can be used in 40k as a dilapidated bdlg (neutral, av-2, no functional weaponry)
Well, that pisses me off.
The website says that it has rules to use it in normal 40k, but apparently it does not have any rules!
That sucks for all the people who spent 90 Euro on something that does nothing at all.
... Why do I want to see a conversion of a really fat Great Unclean One in one of the disability scooters?
I suppose I missed the Dakka policy to submit pics for your approval prior to posting. As this thread is about apoc and recent conversation turned to models being produced or supported I thought it was a worthy conversion to share with the community and one that I'd be happy to play against even with some DIY rules.
If your contribution is to state that you don't want to see it or contributions from me in the future I'd recommend the hide user functionality.
Cheers
You completely misunderstood what he was saying.
But even if you didn't, getting completely offended that somebody might not like something you posted seems awfully juvenile.
A. I'm not certain i have misjudged it.
B. I'm not offended
C. I think more posters on this board should be less tolerant of board members who can't express an opinion in a civilized and well constructed manner. In other words it isn't juvenile to call persons to the carpet when posts do not contribute to the discussion nor are made in a way that progresses the discussion. In this case the poster failed at both.
Regards
A. You actually did. Quite a bit. It was supposed to be made in jest, I'm not even sure how you can misinterpret that as a slight against you in any way.
B. Really? Because you seemed to be.
C. The dude's opinion was civilized. It was a joke, which you then blew way out of proportion.
So what is good that the Orks got for Apocolypse. I will not be able to look at the book for about the next month or two sadly. I don't have time to play or to get the book.
So compared to the rest of the armies. What did they get? Are they going to be any good in apoc or blown away as a novelty army by the others like necrons, chaos and Grey Knights?
Necrons and Chaos are looking fairly decent in apoc to me. It's hard to say yet. I've really only eyed the things i already own(warhound and shadowsword variants). Ork stompas got a little more expensive.
That unnatural disasters table is...interesting, to say the least. I think it would make apoc games very, very short.
I like the modified East India Company logo on the shoulders.
As usual, a model can look better when not done by the 'eavy metal team, and though I still don't like it, both conversions are a step up.
I'm kind of annoyed with Apoc, however, for splitting the formations up across books; there's a bunch of classics restricted to the Pandorax warzone, which only the collectors edition get (for now) and will be Emperor knows how much when it's released.
Was everyone's copy in shrink wrap? It may just have been the store I bought it from, but I think this is the first time I bought a 40k book and had to remove the shrink wrap from it.
I wouldn't call it an improvement. Certainly it provides proof the concept will work, but it isn't executed terribly well.
Ol' dustbin legs.
Just wondering but can someone put this guy next to a War hound Titan? I am curious as I could buy this and convert it into a war hound Titan if its at the same height as the Warhound of course. It would look awesome and it would be cheaper than the FW one
I wouldn't call it an improvement. Certainly it provides proof the concept will work, but it isn't executed terribly well.
Ol' dustbin legs.
All I can see when I look at the top picture is that god awful scene in Spider-Man 3, when Toby Maguire struts his stuff down the street during his 'dark'(emo) phase.
Take two sets of Wk legs, cut under the knees on both sets of legs.
Put them togheter or with a 1/2 inch gap, so it does look like the old Armorcast reavers legs, you can also put som armor platings on it and maybe use the dustbins...urh the Blood tanks for the lower parts of the legs.
I wouldn't call it an improvement. Certainly it provides proof the concept will work, but it isn't executed terribly well.
Ol' dustbin legs.
Just wondering but can someone put this guy next to a War hound Titan? I am curious as I could buy this and convert it into a war hound Titan if its at the same height as the Warhound of course. It would look awesome and it would be cheaper than the FW one
It's about 9.5 inches tall. Making is 1 inch, or about 20 cm, shorter than a Warhound. With a bit more work, or a scenic base, it could be the same height.
I dont know if UltraPrime is still around but I would realy like to hear some details about the squad of Commisars Formation, as well as the one of each kind of Assasin formation. From Pandorax
Commisar wrote: I dont know if UltraPrime is still around but I would realy like to hear some details about the squad of Commisars Formation, as well as the one of each kind of Assasin formation. From Pandorax
These seem new and interesting.
"Emperor's Mercy" Commissariat Squad (IG)
1 Lord Commissar
3+ Commissars
Fearless
If a unit within 12" fails a Morale test, the Commissar squad can do their execution thing as if they were part of the squad which failed.
LC's Aura of Discipline increases to 12", and all friendly IG in that range gain Hatred and FC
Assassinorum Murder Squad (GK)
1 of each type of assassin
Lansirill wrote: Was everyone's copy in shrink wrap? It may just have been the store I bought it from, but I think this is the first time I bought a 40k book and had to remove the shrink wrap from it.
I'm almost positive my 6th edition rulebook was in shrinkwrap, and the copies of Storm of Magic at my FLGS are as well.
MikeFox wrote: Has any one seen the rules fro the Aquila Strongpoint in normal 40k games?
I just came back from Warhammer World's Enter the Citadel, so I have seen the rules within the booklets themselves. As well as the rules for the Vengeance Weapon Battery and Firestorm Redoubt. I can't remember all of their stats off the top of my head, but the Vengeance Battery allows you to take Battle Cannons and Punisher Cannons for less than 100 points each (1-2 as one Fortification slot that count as separate and can fire as such), are AV14, and cannot be embarked within. Automated Fire only at BS2. Firestorm Redoubt is AV14.
All of the new Forts are sprueless wrapped in ziplock bags with a nice multi-language rules booklet. That thread also has the IA: Apocalypse contents page.
I'm going to be posting more updates tomorrow. The next Warzone for Apoc will include GK, Chaos, Daemons, didn't manage to catch the rest as they were rattled off. It's set in space with a Khorne theme of an asteroids and boarding actions. This is the Pandorax one in the Special Edition that will be released later. Dinosaurs are included.
Ive seen the full rules for the Firestorm and Vengence Batteries. Ive also seen the Strongpoint from the Apco rulebook but I havnt seen its normal 40k game stats.
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I bet Ward had something to do with this....
Even if you manage to kill 49, around 25 will get up.
