I see people is actually defending this hideous Khorne thing ... And maybe it is a waste of breath for me to call it ugly and awful. People are gonna buy it anyway...
I like most of the things GW put out, yes I guess every miniatures is a toy in one sense. But GW usually makes them original, interesting and with a kind of balanced esthetic felling well suited for the army they belong to. (And you forget the childish part...)
And I can see the effort in this model as well...
Anyway I rest my case. People will like it. Maybe it is time for me to do something else. Stop wasting my time and money on GW.
GW seems to be gravitating towards the more anthropomorphic units, from the Dreadknight to the Wraithknight to this "Bloodknight" (which as people have already pointed out seems to be a reworking of the Lord of Battle daemon engine).
Problem for me is some of the stylistic choices they went with in doing this. The white face seems to be taken from Adrian Smith's Khorne artwork showing the Khornate CSM with whitened face licking a blade. The old Lord of Battles had a more canine bestial face, more like the Bloodthirster (and it was supposed to have a Greater Daemon of Khorne inside it). The old Lord of Battles had a battle cannon for a mouth, but with the new head, they can't have that (though they did do a mouth cannon for the Forgefiend). The belly/groin cannon seems to be a way to keep firepower as otherwise GW probably thought the arm gun wasn't enough. I'm not sure what that big cylindrical tub thing is at the back. Is it meant to be some kind of engine or daemonic containment unit? Or is it some sort of weird weapon?
Why the Lord of Battles to rework? If one looks at the other Chaos gods' daemon engines, I'm not sure there was much of any choice in the matter. Slaanesh had some Knights and Scout Titans. Tzeentch had some flyers, which I suppose could be done again but Chaos already got a new flyer with their Codex so maybe it was too much of the same. Nurgle had the Plague Tower and Contagion Plague Engine. The former was a slow clanking transport that got a bonus when troops assaulted from it due to their higher ramps. It had a few modest short or medium range guns, but that was it. The Contagions were giant catapults with a short range gun for close defense, so essentially they were artillery pieces. None of the other gods therefore had anything really suitable to be the highlight of a new wave of releases.
I guess one could make an argument for a Slaanesh Knight but probably GW thought the usual "blood and skulls" would attract more people than the Slaanesh aesthetics.
The Khorne giant-wheeled-centaur thing, yes, harks back to the old-school aesthetic. And that's why it's terrible.
The monolith-flyers looks OK, especially the opened version. But, and I can't believe no-one's mentioned it, how are they supposed to stay balanced? Especially the closed version, it looks so top heavy that placing it on even the slightest incline, or giving the table a tiny nudge, is sure to send the giant ball of plastic crashing down onto the rest of your, or your opponents army, smashing everything to pieces.
I don't actually have much of a problem with the Skulldozer, although I think a better paint job could have made it so much more appealing. Just get one of the FW team to paint it, and it would look pretty good.
The monoliths...
1) I hope these don't replace the old monolith in any way.
2) The open one looks amazing.
3) I'm guessing a price tag of £70, dual kit.
4) I want it.
So, no plastic Thunderhawk for the tens of thousands of Marine players out there, but not one but two monstrous abortions of superheavies for far smaller demographics of players? GW sure knows how to screw things up.
blood lance wrote: That mega monolith is definitely a dual kit. The corner plating is exactly the same. Either these are two different super heavies, or the one on the left is its "Activated form" cus it looks like the rightmost one, but more "Opened"
Yes, we got that it makes different versions of the model. The one on the right has slightly different wraith looking things as well as different guns on the orbs.
Chaos has a huge fanbase.
Necrons now have a massive fanbase. (Thanks, Ward)
A Thunderhawk would be twice the size of that monolith, and would be pretty hard to make stable using GWs methods. It would also put a pretty big dent in FWs sales. I'm not saying they won't make one, I'm just saying there are good reasons why they don't want to make one.
Yes, if by "mad" you mean "mildly amused", by "specific variety of marine" you mean "all Space Marines, chaos and non", if by "new stuff" you mean "lackluster and poorly executed models" and so on.
So.... no, in fact.
-Shrike- wrote: A Thunderhawk would be twice the size of that monolith, and would be pretty hard to make stable using GWs methods. It would also put a pretty big dent in FWs sales. I'm not saying they won't make one, I'm just saying there are good reasons why they don't want to make one.
Frankly, I doubt that. The Thunderhawk is not a popular FW kit, because it's a fecking nightmare to build and costs £400. I rather think Contemptors, Heresy marines and Death Korps all easily outsell it.
-Shrike- wrote: You're the second person in this thread to not like the monolith, that makes you the minority.
And chaos can't take Thunderhawks. They can't.
And as we all know, suppressing minority opinions is the cornerstone to any great society!
Chaos Thunderhawks, even if not supported by the current canon, are but a tiny retcon away.
Jokes aside, Space Marines, in general don't need any new models. The only ones that really do are Black Templars, every other one can wait while those codices that actually need an update get it.
Melissia wrote: Wait, you're mad because your specific variety of marine didn't get updated so that newer codices could get some new stuff?
They made a new superheavy for one quarter of one army, and it looks like gak. There are a lot of things that would have been a better use of those resources, and if they won't make the much needed affordable rank-and-file for certain armies, they could at least create an iconic unit that is a licence to print money.
I've said the same thing about the Storm Raven and Storm Talon in the past.
Oh please, if all you can spew out are tired memes, accept my apologies for engaging in discussion with you in the first place. I took you for your better, and had I know with whom I was, in fact, conversing, I never would have proceeded to do so.
Agamemnon2 wrote: monstrous abortions of superheavies for far smaller demographics of players
As we all know, only a believed majority should get new models, rather than trying to bring new players into different armies.
/besidesthepoint
@Lovepug13: Sorry! I forgot that the footnote in the Apocalypse rulebook extends to units as well as formations. You can indeed take a Chaos Thunderhawk, but I suspect that a new dual plastic kit would have been on the front cover of WD? I don't think we'll see one, but I'm happy to be proved wrong.
You know, if you read the whole post instead of just the four words at the beginning, you'd have noticed an addition to the post, which wasn't edited in-- it was part of the original post.:
Melissia wrote: Jokes aside, Space Marines, in general don't need any new models. The only ones that really do are Black Templars, every other one can wait while those codices that actually need an update get it.
No need to spaz out about bad jokes, let's stay on topic, shall we?
Looking over the Necron stuff, I have to say, I think it's kind of cool. Newcrons interest me more than Oldcrons, to be sure, although that said I still dunno if I want to invest in a brand new army.
Can't wait to get my hands on a Lord of Battles or two. I don't like much of the upper body, but it's going to be so much fun to hack apart and make into something much better. I'm thinking something more like a Cyberdemon on tracks.
Time to start hunting around for some conversion material...
But yeah, I doubt the Monolith is a "transformer", it probably just has different configs. I'm sure there's a reason it opens. I just hope it's not a Monolith and is some sort of special one. I imagine a big Apoc formation with 4 Monoliths and one of those hovering in the centre would be awesome.
I see here there's an alternative right arm called the Doom Burner.
Spoiler:
Replacing the sword arm with that would go a long way to making it look better imo.
Might have looked a little more, I don't know, retro, if they had kept the original's two large front wheels as well (the conversion mind brews).
So we have a main gun that can't be aimed or adjusted, a main cc arm that can't reach the floor and a drive so slow that anyone can run away or shoot him from afar. Yeah, some old concepts should rest in peace.
Oh, and it seems the new Monolith has 4 Skeletor gun turrets.
It has a lot of Khornate bits, but I still wonder whether it would actually be a kit to be customised with different god-specific parts. Making this huge and expensive kit and tying it to a specific chaos god seems like a bad sales strategy.
Also; I've figured out what I don't like at it besides it being tank-centaur. The upper body is too human shaped. I'd prefer if it looked hunched like Decimator and Contemptor. Ie. more terminator like torso/head arrangement. Arms could look more mechanical too, now they look just like upscaled power armour arms.
Crimson wrote: It has a lot of Khornate bits, but I still wonder whether it would actually be a kit to be customised with different god-specific parts.
It has some Slaanesh parts for the main gun, but we can't show them here
I would imagine from GW's point of view they expect most Chaos players to be more toward the undivided Chaos format, thus buying all types of new goodies and not worrying about the four individual Gods.
I suspect, that solo God players are much fewer and far between than years past. Also if you look at what this was based on, Epic. Then the war machines tended to being focused on the four aspects in their own way.
Sadly it means if you are a Solo Slaanesh player, don't expect a lot, and not much more for Tzeentch players either.
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote: I would imagine from GW's point of view they expect most Chaos players to be more toward the undivided Chaos format, thus buying all types of new goodies and not worrying about the four individual Gods.
I suspect, that solo God players are much fewer and far between than years past. Also if you look at what this was based on, Epic. Then the war machines tended to being focused on the four aspects in their own way.
Sadly it means if you are a Solo Slaanesh player, don't expect a lot, and not much more for Tzeentch players either.
Silver Towers would maybe actually make me start wanting to finally do a Tzeentch Army. Then I'd see the Lore of Change psyker powers and start vomiting again.
So anyone have a wishlist of things they want to see? I'm hoping Tau finally get a flying transport or maybe a new HH turret. Something to give them back long range anti-tank. Everything else for Tau is too small to fit the Apoc concept. Vespids and Sniper Drones will have to wait for a new Citystrike, if ever.
To all those bitching at this model: what the feth? At the end of the day, everyone has their own unique opinion and tastes, but come on. People are complaining that it's too 'hardcore' or over-the-top. You know what you're talking about, right? Look at the kind of people the Chaos Marines are. This represents them perfectly. It fits with everything else they have perfectly. You can't say this is over-the-top and not say everything else is. Death is all they're about, so how the feth can you not expect skulls? The skull specific part at the front is a nice design anyway. It is the perfect symbol at the front of a big, feth off machine of death.
*takes the top half of the Khornate thing
*removes bottom half
*puts top half on Wraithknight legs in hecka cool pose
*make Wraithknight legs more bulky and Khorne-y
* Now I have m a model that looks good.
Then I use the bottom half with two Skull Cannons of Khorne with a giant portal on top for daemons to assault out of.
Inspectah Cax wrote: To all those bitching at this model: what the feth? At the end of the day, everyone has their own unique opinion and tastes, but come on. People are complaining that it's too 'hardcore' or over-the-top. You know what you're talking about, right? Look at the kind of people the Chaos Marines are. This represents them perfectly. It fits with everything else they have perfectly. You can't say this is over-the-top and not say everything else is. Death is all they're about, so how the feth can you not expect skulls? The skull specific part at the front is a nice design anyway. It is the perfect symbol at the front of a big, feth off machine of death.
Er, are you reading a different thread to the rest of us?
Skulls = Khorne, so no problems there.
Hardcore (don't recall anyone using that word, but ok) would be fine as well. Over the top is a given for most things 40K, so again no problem with that.
The only reason it 'fits perfectly' with the rest of the CSM image is because they've been recently overhauled to look like derpy kids toys too.
It's a poor concept, badly realised. Actually, if anything, if they'd kept with the more animalistic, zoid-y look of the recent releases that would be more in keeping with the old Epic model and would probably have looked better! Here's hoping for an alternative head at least.
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McNinja wrote: *takes the top half of the Khornate thing
*removes bottom half
*puts top half on Wraithknight legs in hecka cool pose
*make Wraithknight legs more bulky and Khorne-y
* Now I have m a model that looks good.
Then I use the bottom half with two Skull Cannons of Khorne with a giant portal on top for daemons to assault out of.
You forgot
*realises he has spent a fortune on models to get something workable and do GWs job for them.
* cries
These necrons look like the necrons from the eldar white dwarf battlereport.
The monoliths will cause a lot of QQ when someone has to sneeze during an apoc game when they fall onto your opponents painted models. Very wobbly ... dont know what to make out of them.
If it is the death dealer which is what it looks like it should have some imense rules should be more than good in close combat carry at least 30 troops and be able to mince alot of troops or light armour in short range shooting. Plus have a weapon for medium to long range anti tank. More importantly it should be extremely well armoured
surprised if this is a real gw product they went this way thought they may have went the slaneesh knights or scout titans given the sudden large walkers of tau and eldar ahh have missed the old epic lol look slike I may get all the cool epic stuff back
To behonest I dont think this is real at all so wouldnt get my hopes up
So far, from the front shot I really like the kit. I can't wait to see it from different angles to get a better idea of scale and length. The Megaliths are pretty cool as well. Looking forward to seeing what else is coming for APOC 2.0
I wounder what the price point will be for such a huge kit.
Cheexsta wrote: Can't wait to get my hands on a Lord of Battles or two. I don't like much of the upper body, but it's going to be so much fun to hack apart and make into something much better. I'm thinking something more like a Cyberdemon on tracks.
Time to start hunting around for some conversion material...
Exactly my thoughts Brother!, they don't know what they are talking about, only true khorne disciple sees the beauty in it..., IT NEED AND BEG TO BE TAKEN APART AND HACKED!!!
spaceelf wrote: Another bad release from GW. Worse yet, it is not even original, it is a rip off of Power Lords Beast Machines.
I'm guessing you didn't read the thread and thus didn't notice the 1916547516284816512 times people have pointed out that it's more or less a re-imagined Lord of Slaughter from Epic?
And the Lord of Battle, I think, like many of the larger models I've seen recently and disliked, like the slaughterbeast, It's something about the lack of detail and the lack of indicators that it's supposed to be huge in it's design that makes it end up looking somewhat comical/simplistic instead of horrific and eldritch.
Many of the warmachines and engines from the red age epic, along with the khorne robot with wheels and a whip, at that time, were poor designs, the armorcast fullsize versions of them showed how bad they were in terms of design, this reflects that, despite a modern reimagining, the basic concept for it is daft and therefore the result still feels unwieldy and like an 80s knock off toy.
And the Lord of Battle, I think, like many of the larger models I've seen recently and disliked, like the slaughterbeast, It's something about the lack of detail and the lack of indicators that it's supposed to be huge in it's design that makes it end up looking somewhat comical/simplistic instead of horrific and eldritch.
Many of the warmachines and engines from the red age epic, along with the khorne robot with wheels and a whip, at that time, were poor designs, the armorcast fullsize versions of them showed how bad they were in terms of design, this reflects that, despite a modern reimagining, the basic concept for it is daft and therefore the result still feels unwieldy and like an 80s knock off toy.
Indeed. Forgeworld had the right idea with your aforementioned Blood Slaughterer.
To be fair, there's little we know of the overall release, just these two pictures of models. If previous Apocalypse is anything to go by, there will be more.
After reading two pages of this thread Im starting to feel like I am the only one who likes the CSM Berserker/titan thingy.
I like the look of it, it has a groin cannon as well, so me and my friends are going to have so much innuendo banter it would be unbelievable if I ever get one
my only criticism would be that it does look like it has maybe too much skulls even for Khornes fancy, and I would have to look at the hull as it looks like a cathedral superglued on the back of it with a job that a 10 year old has done, but apart from that it looks fine to me .
perhaps it will be a dual or even triple kit. I suspect you can make a lord of battle\deathdealer depending on the weapons you pick and the alternate kit will be a cannon of khorne or something. Or forgeworld will step in and make an alt build with a conversion kit.
Agamemnon2 wrote: To be fair, there's little we know of the overall release, just these two pictures of models. If previous Apocalypse is anything to go by, there will be more.
Not necessarily more big 'uns. Most of Apoc consisted of huge bundle boxes. Only two big models came out - Baneblade and the Stompa, and then later the Shadowsword.
happygolucky wrote: After reading two pages of this thread Im starting to feel like I am the only one who likes the CSM Berserker/titan thingy.
You're not. With a different head I think it can be salvaged.
I'm going to call mine Lord Skullington Wexford the Third, heir to the Wexford Brass-Skull fortune (Brass-Skull being a product created from the rich veins of Skulldanium found on all Realm of Battle Boards).
I don't think the Stompa was a part of the initial Apocalypse release, actually. I remember it came a bit later. But yeah, my point was there was other stuff, like the Ogryns and Ratlings, which came out the same time. We dont yet know if this is all we're getting, so it's premature to call "this release" a failure.
Agamemnon2 wrote: To be fair, there's little we know of the overall release, just these two pictures of models. If previous Apocalypse is anything to go by, there will be more.
Not necessarily more big 'uns. Most of Apoc consisted of huge bundle boxes. Only two big models came out - Baneblade and the Stompa, and then later the Shadowsword.
happygolucky wrote: After reading two pages of this thread Im starting to feel like I am the only one who likes the CSM Berserker/titan thingy.
You're not. With a different head I think it can be salvaged.
I'm going to call mine Lord Skullington Wexford the Third, heir to the Wexford Brass-Skull fortune (Brass-Skull being a product created from the rich veins of Skulldanium found on all Realm of Battle Boards).
I think im going to just paint mine red, blue and silver and call it optimus prime .
One interesting thing is that the new type of Necron Monolith is a flyer, both of them are on flying stands in that photo from White Dwarf.
After reading two pages of this thread Im starting to feel like I am the only one who likes the CSM Berserker/titan thingy.
It think there's a lot to like about it and when we get better pics of it and the components it should be a good kit for Chaos collectors and players. I'm interested to see just how big it is when next to some existing kits.
Agamemnon2 wrote: To be fair, there's little we know of the overall release, just these two pictures of models. If previous Apocalypse is anything to go by, there will be more.
Funnily enough, came back into this thread to say exactly that, who knows what else may be in the pipeline?
As much as I remain skeptical, this could be the time all the rumoured stuff that hasn't yet seen light of day comes out, we could see new jet bikes for Eldar, the plastic GDs, one of the often wished for giant Imperial kits.... As of right now, all of these things could happen, and the part of me that still wants GW to do well is just a tiny bit excited.
Just not for the belly cannon paraplegic midget here.
Agamemnon2 wrote: To be fair, there's little we know of the overall release, just these two pictures of models. If previous Apocalypse is anything to go by, there will be more.
Not necessarily more big 'uns. Most of Apoc consisted of huge bundle boxes. Only two big models came out - Baneblade and the Stompa, and then later the Shadowsword.
happygolucky wrote: After reading two pages of this thread Im starting to feel like I am the only one who likes the CSM Berserker/titan thingy.
You're not. With a different head I think it can be salvaged.
I'm going to call mine Lord Skullington Wexford the Third, heir to the Wexford Brass-Skull fortune (Brass-Skull being a product created from the rich veins of Skulldanium found on all Realm of Battle Boards).
I think im going to just paint mine red, blue and silver and call it optimus prime .
That might be more appropriate for the Necrons, if you were to do up that open monolith like the Matrix and slap a blue LED inside. Light our darkest hour!
Agamemnon2 wrote: To be fair, there's little we know of the overall release, just these two pictures of models. If previous Apocalypse is anything to go by, there will be more.
Not necessarily more big 'uns. Most of Apoc consisted of huge bundle boxes. Only two big models came out - Baneblade and the Stompa, and then later the Shadowsword.
happygolucky wrote: After reading two pages of this thread Im starting to feel like I am the only one who likes the CSM Berserker/titan thingy.
You're not. With a different head I think it can be salvaged.
I'm going to call mine Lord Skullington Wexford the Third, heir to the Wexford Brass-Skull fortune (Brass-Skull being a product created from the rich veins of Skulldanium found on all Realm of Battle Boards).
I think im going to just paint mine red, blue and silver and call it optimus prime .
That might be more appropriate for the Necrons, if you were to do up that open monolith like the Matrix and slap a blue LED inside. Light our darkest hour!
Well I have already painted my Dakkajet to look like G1 Starscream and I am on a project to have the seekers for my Orks so maybe I will wait a while till Orks get their Big thing in the new 'dex then paint that Optimus prime (I already have painted a BW to look like Optimus prime ).
For all the reasons why everyone hates that Khorne thing... I absolutely love it. The 80's cheese modernized into an over the top killing monster is something I would enjoy fielding so much. Every time it kills something I would just laugh and enjoy.
Not a fan of the new chaos engine and the FW comparisons of large Khornate models certainly don't do it any favors at all. It's strange that FW can keep nailing (for me) various aesthetics but GW keeps rolling those failed 3+ design saves.
Another Chaos release that I will never buy (heldrake, fiends, oblits, and now this). The Chaos design team must be flogged for this. It's the only way they will learn!
The uber-monolith is awesome. Another great release for Necrons. Congrats, necron players.
I think GW has finally gone into "feth this!" mode and just decided to fire its entire model design department and had it be taken over by a blind, one-armed monkey.
Is it only me that thinks the old epic scale stuff now looks horribly dated and badly designed? A result of plastic technology making it possible, this trend in taking that stuff and making it 40k size with little re-design is absurd. Where is the creativity?
Aesthetics aside, it's just all so typical of GW's approach to 40K at the moment - the signs were there when 6th was released and each subsequent codex has just reinforced it. They have obviously come to a corporate decision that they can't really rinse much more out of the player base in terms of core troops etc other than repackaging and upping the price (despite the point/force inflation that appears every year) so the real push this edition is to ape Fantasy and shove large monster kits and flyers down our throats. I mean, I'm sure Apocalypse is great fun and all that and every time the topic comes up I see plenty of people wetting themselves about Titans from FW and the like but really, what is the point? Hand on heart, how often do you get to use it all? 2500 to 3000 points looks incredibly cramped for space on a standard 6x4 table so I dread to think what it would be like with a whacking great big Titan or Stompa sat on there. Not to mention the fact you are paying £100 plus or whatever this kit will actually cost for something that only gets used once in a blue moon. Apocalypse strikes me as one of those things that is fine in theory; probably not so great in practice, unless you can organise a venue or suitable table and an opponent with the requisite amount of models and super-heavies. It just all strikes me as a massive excuse by GW to pump out more overpriced and oversized kits, all the time claiming that it is all about 'creating a good game' or 'allowing you to use all your collection'.
Praxiss wrote: Ihave a feeling it might be the Lord of Battles - this is based on the fact that the free PDF for the old rules is no longer online.
GW still has Apoc datasheets up? I thought all of that stuff was gone... was looking for Spearhead stuff the other day (I came across the WD with that in it when I was organizing my crap) and thought I'd need to hit up the scurvy seas to get everything.
That and it's a very obvious modernization of the original Lord of Battles model from Epic. It just doesn't have the donkey head anymore.
I'm trying to decide if a donkey head would make it look better or worse. I'm going with better, because the head is really the most off-putting part. The groin cannon is goofy but not awful and the skulls everywhere make sense on a Khorne vehicle than in many of the other places they've stuck them.
The monolith looks cool, but at their likely prices I doubt I'll be interested in either.
Praxiss wrote: Ihave a feeling it might be the Lord of Battles - this is based on the fact that the free PDF for the old rules is no longer online.
GW still has Apoc datasheets up? I thought all of that stuff was gone... was looking for Spearhead stuff the other day (I came across the WD with that in it when I was organizing my crap) and thought I'd need to hit up the scurvy seas to get everything.
I think the Hel/Blood/Skull Knight has potential, if you get rid of torso and codpiece and just use the tracked body with the tanks for something nurgle.
You know what?, you can all go kiss my hairy arse.
This model is nice, for once that they make a Khorne specific model, and not something Slaanesh or Nurgle.
Plus its a perfect start tot make a titan, get rid of the tracks and convert legs like the Decimator, but at his size, and it will be awesome, and the head can be replaced with a...Skull..., its a Khorne machine, what did you expect?...
This model is nice, for once that they make a Khorne specific model, and not something Slaanesh or Nurgle.
Plus its a perfect start tot make a titan, get rid of the tracks and convert legs like the Decimator, but at his size, and it will be awesome, and the head can be replaced with a...Skull..., its a Khorne machine, what did you expect?...
For once? Khorne always gets models in the update!
Praxiss wrote: Ihave a feeling it might be the Lord of Battles - this is based on the fact that the free PDF for the old rules is no longer online.
GW still has Apoc datasheets up? I thought all of that stuff was gone... was looking for Spearhead stuff the other day (I came across the WD with that in it when I was organizing my crap) and thought I'd need to hit up the scurvy seas to get everything.
link to old GW datasheets is in my sig.
Looks like the majority of them have stopped working now.
.. I guess it's another reason to go the ForgeWorld route?
Yup, they're really the stuff of nightmares! Though forget the Decimator if you want to utilize your points properly...
I think with that level of paint job even crappy models can look amazing. There have been a lot of complaints of the last few new releases and lots of people have changed their minds once seeing it in person.
I am one of these people as now that I have seen a built and posed Wraithknight I don't think its nearly as goofy looking as the white dwarf photos.
filbert wrote: 2500 to 3000 points looks incredibly cramped for space on a standard 6x4 table so I dread to think what it would be like with a whacking great big Titan or Stompa sat on there.
Playing Apocalypse games on a 6x4 is doing it completely wrong. I'd go minimum 8x6 for an Apoc game, and scale up as the game gets bigger.
Apocalypse is also a heck of a lot of fun...as long as you can keep TFG out of it.
Looking at the Khornate Super Heavy some more and to me it looks like an amalgamation of 3 different Epic models. You have the Lord of Battle, DeathDealer and Cauldron of Blood rolled into one Super Heavy. All of the BloodCrusher heads look like they have a nozzle/barrel in their mouths. So this is what I think it will be.
AV 14/13/11 WS)4, BS)3, 5++, DTW on a 4+, IWND, Demon, Siege Crawler.
Demolisher cannon (Belly Gun), S5 ap4 Heavy 8 (maybe 16) arm gun, Then either torrent flamer template s4 ap3 or a apoc template with 360 arc of fire (non torrenting) s5 ap3.
This model is nice, for once that they make a Khorne specific model, and not something Slaanesh.
As a mono Slaanesh player in fantasy, as a player of chaos armies for 20+ years... I urge you, strongly, to stop talking horsegak.
Tell me when was the last time a Khorne specific machine was released from GW?...
i'm really curious..., the only Khorne specific Super Heavy is the Greater Scorpion, and thats it.
All the other Super heavys have no distinct alligance, be it the Reaver or the Warhound.
The Lesser scorpions?, DIY conversions, Tower of Skulls DIY conversion...
This is the first real Khorne Super Heavy machine GW ( not FW) did, and for once i'm Happy with that.
At what point did they release anything Super-Heavy for the Nurgle and Slaanesh armies you cited as getting more love from GW? Khorne has always been the studio's go-to chaos cult.
i'm really curious..., the only Khorne specific Super Heavy is the Greater Scorpion, and thats it.
All the other Super heavys have no distinct alligance, be it the Reaver or the Warhound.
The Lesser scorpions?, DIY conversions, Tower of Skulls DIY conversion...
This is the first real Khorne Super Heavy machine GW ( not FW) did, and for once i'm Happy with that.
Khorne at least has *a* superheavy model specific to it (the Scorpion), only Nurgle has rules for another (and is really a bastardized IG tank kit), Slaanesh and Tzeentch don't have superheavy vehicle models IIRC.
I don't think that that is 2 different monoliths, as the OP suggests...Looks to me like you just get to choose how you want to model it. AKA: take up an entire room, or just half
Also can the OP please fix their title.. What in the world is a reedition? :p
Thanks for saying what I've been thinking since I first saw this thread. It definitely (note the correct spelling of "definitely") needs to have the nonsense word "reedition" removed or replaced. It's babble.
Interestingly, I saw the Thunderhawk rumor come up again this week related to this latest White Dwarf photo leak for Apocalypse. I'd like to keep dreaming about that one, but there's so far been little to validate that such a thing exists.
I don't think that that is 2 different monoliths, as the OP suggests...Looks to me like you just get to choose how you want to model it. AKA: take up an entire room, or just half
Someone thought that was two different models? Hilarious. It's clearly one kit modeled in an "open" and "closed" configuration.
Sadly I'm in the not impressed camp for the chaos engine.
The necron one doesn't seem too bad, but something that large on top of a flying stand? I'll wait for better pictures on that.
This model is nice, for once that they make a Khorne specific model, and not something Slaanesh or Nurgle.
I'll put odds on that it's a dual-kit able to build a unit for another Chaos god (probably Nurgle). GW really love putting at least 2 options in one box these days, because it let's them shift more of the same product. Just look at that shiny new Monolith...
morgendonner wrote: I would laugh hysterically if these turned out to be usable in regular 40k. It almost would not surprise at this point.
Just thinking of how people would react if Necrons got faq'd to have a AV14 flyer is hilarious.
I actually don't expect it to be ruled a flyer, per se. It's just so big (especially in "open" mode) that the flying base and big oval seem necessary to support it. The normal skimmer stem is overstressed by the regular monolith as it is.
EDIT: I'll admit, though, that it's VERY high in the air. Perhaps it's some new Apoc unit type that floats high enough to not be smacked in CC, but moves slowly, so doesn't zoom and is easier to hit with ranged weapons. I sure can't see that thing zooming.
I disagree with the assertion that the issue with the Lord of Battles is the concept itself. I think it's an error in the execution. Luckily, I find that most of the issues seem to emanate from the body portion rather than the tracks. That could be fixed and/or converted. After all, I think if it had looked something more like this, people would have been quite pleased. I would have, at least:
morgendonner wrote: I would laugh hysterically if these turned out to be usable in regular 40k. It almost would not surprise at this point.
Just thinking of how people would react if Necrons got faq'd to have a AV14 flyer is hilarious.
Stock in Crimson Hunters might go up. Fusion blasters on Skyfire Riptides would be more prevalent.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I'm still crossing my fingers that there's something along the lines of the Tau Manta, Tigershark, or Orca coming too. I have a sneaking suspicion though that if we get anything it will probably be a Great Knarloc MC since there were rumours of those floating around in a Tau playtest rumor last year.
Harriticus wrote: Honestly I like the Khorne contraption. It's completely ridiculous in a way that feels like the old days of 40k.
Unfortunately, the majority of the fanbase looks back to the olden days and thinks that the old, ridiculous look of 40k stuff was a bad thing. The aesthetic for 40k has changed drastically since it first came out and going back and incorporating the old look will only end in disaster.
In regard to that Khorne thing, isn't that the kind of monster the power rangers usually fight?
I'll revert to my Scottish twang here; " Khorne Lord of Battle? Naw. Just Naw.
Sorry Khorne players, that is a Turkey!
I'm indifferent to all the new shiny for the APOC release so far. I'm just happy that they are updating the rules for it. APOC right now is such a patch work/ bodge job of rules that it has made it difficult to iron all that stuff. You almost need a week of preparation just to establish rules for the game.
Ughhhh. I just traded in some stuff and bought a Wraithknight. Please don't bring out an awesome Tyranid bio titan. :( I can't keep raiding my Sisters of Battle savings!
I like what I'm seeing.and I'm betting there will be head variants for the the Khorne model (for those who don't like the one pictured).
I'm not an Apoc player, playing on that scale doesn't appeal to me. It's a matter of time and the reality of all those unpainted models strewn across the table that make it unappealing. I am however a fan of the large scale models and general idea of Apoc.
You know, the more I see of these hulking monstrous units on flyer bases, the more I get excited at the thought that Orks are due an update for this edition...
Fezman wrote: You know, the more I see of these hulking monstrous units on flyer bases lugging impractically huge weaponry, the more I get excited at the thought that Orks are due an update for this edition...because that whole approach to model design actually suits them.
Ork stompa stomping stompa, I would actually expect a gargantuan for orks, that would be sweet.
Fezman wrote: You know, the more I see of these hulking monstrous units on flyer bases lugging impractically huge weaponry, the more I get excited at the thought that Orks are due an update for this edition...because that whole approach to model design actually suits them.
Ork stompa stomping stompa, I would actually expect a gargantuan for orks, that would be sweet.
I was going to say I'd like a plastic mega dread, but I just checked and I can get one with both arms from FW for only £3 more than a Wraithknight...which I assume is going to be the price tag for future giant plastic kits.
Re Apocalypse, I think it will be interesting to see if Tau finally get a Titan-sized suit, assuming every army will be provided for. And could this be paving the way for the legendary plastic Thunderhawk?
Re Apocalypse, I think it will be interesting to see if Tau finally get a Titan-sized suit, assuming every army will be provided for. And could this be paving the way for the legendary plastic Thunderhawk?
Nothing would make me happier in 40K than Tau getting a Warhound scale battlesuit, assuming it's sculpted to the same quality as the Riptide. However I do feel that the Riptide is the biggest suit the Tau are going to get for atleast the next five to six years. It's not a terrible fate because that suit looks really good, is usable in 40K and kicks ass on top of it all. If you play large apocalypse games just buy two dozen Riptides. It'll look a far more impressive on the tabletop than a single Reaver Titan (for example).
Red Viper wrote: I played fantasy when the last Apocalypse happened.
Were stompas and baneblades "officially" allowed in normal 40k games?
Not in normal 40K games, not, just in Apocalypse games.
Apocalypse was a separate thing to regular 40K. It basically let you ignore the Force Org chart and take whatever you wanted, and included super heavy vehicles and special detachments which were various combinations of regular codex units that gave you some sort of bonus for taking them all together.
On the GW site, the apocalypse book is still there, but not apocalypse reloaded. So, 3 of the 4 apocalypse books have been pulled, unless I'm forgetting one.
It's completely over the top, and more than a little silly, but the Khorne tankmonster doesn't bother me all that much. If you prefer to give a Very Serious look, you can chop off the Juggernaut heads, tone down the skulls (elbow-skulls? really?), maybe give it a head- and/or weapon-swap and you're good to go. Or just embrace the silliness (because ELBOW-SKULLS, why the hell not). It is a monster mecha daemon with tank treads after all.
Red Viper wrote: I played fantasy when the last Apocalypse happened.
Were stompas and baneblades "officially" allowed in normal 40k games?
Not in normal 40K games, not, just in Apocalypse games.
Apocalypse was a separate thing to regular 40K. It basically let you ignore the Force Org chart and take whatever you wanted, and included super heavy vehicles and special detachments which were various combinations of regular codex units that gave you some sort of bonus for taking them all together.
Thanks for the answer
I really wouldn't be surprised if they let the Apocalypse stuff into normal 40k this time. They've been progressively blurring the line more and more anyway.
On the one hand, it does have the aura of ridiculous cartoonishness that has characterized some of the absolutely awful releases of recent memory (Slaughterbrute, Forgefiend, Heldrake... wait, are all the bad releases Chaos?)
But on the other hand, it does harken back to the kinda ridiculous (in a way I kinda like) aesthetic that 40K has always had, especially in the old days.
Either way, the head is kinda bad. Though that great conversion that someone posted a pic of is pretty ace. And probably buying a Baneblade & whatever bits are needed for that is probably cheaper than what this monstrosity will cost.
Anyone want to start a betting pool on what the price will be? Now that we got an ordinary (non-Apoc/non-FW) release that has broken the $100 price point ($$Wraithknight$$), the sky is the limit! (Cash for the cash god! Money for the money throne!)
Harriticus wrote: Honestly I like the Khorne contraption. It's completely ridiculous in a way that feels like the old days of 40k.
I agree. Like I said before, it's not bad.
But full disclosure, I prefer the pre-grimdark days of 40K when people were able to laugh at themselves. When sure, Chaos were a bunch of evil psychotic butchers, but they weren't afraid to dress like GWAR rejects just because. Sometimes I feel like GW, in trying to capture the adolescent dollar, lost the ability to laugh at themselves and started taking their background seriously and something got lost along the way.
So I guess that's a roundabout way of saying I like it because I don't like what Chaos has become and I want to see that undermined.
I will also be happy when I see space marines with mohawks scrawling barely literate graffiti on their Land Raiders. And when I see poncey Eldar carrying harps into battle because feth rational military organization when you get to wear pointy helmets.
via an anonymous source (from the Faeit 212 inbox)
I am getting small bits of information regarding the Apocalypse Supplement release.
Apocalypse
Only the Imperial Guard and Orks are not getting an a new Apocalypse vehicle, but they could be getting new apoc aircraft. It seems so that all armies will have 1 apoc vehicle and 1 aircraft.
Forgeworld
We should be seeing a FWapoc book same month as GWapoc release covering all vehicles and aircraft from previous apoc books
Seems a bit wishy-washy on whether armies are getting a flyer and a non-flier, but it's a rumor. With how popular Sisters of Battle are among GW, chances are that they'll be shoehorned in with the Marines of Various Colors release.
Loving the Khornmower lol, i see that it might require a little work to get it to where we want it, particularly a face lift, here is what i plan to do with it ATM, (excuse the crappy photoshop skills)... face lift and barrel extention... for the face im thinking like this guy (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1710142a) but bigger
Juggalo17 wrote: Loving the Khornmower lol, i see that it might require a little work to get it to where we want it, particularly a face lift, here is what i plan to do with it ATM, (excuse the crappy photoshop skills)... face lift and barrel extention... for the face im thinking like this guy (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1710142a) but bigger
I think that particular change to the face kind of works. The rest of the giant robot body needs some battle damage and weathering, though.
Harriticus wrote: Honestly I like the Khorne contraption. It's completely ridiculous in a way that feels like the old days of 40k.
Absolutely. It's evil in a fun way. It's a Bolt Thrower LP in the tiny plastic flesh. It blows my mind when people tear their hair and rend their garments over the newest "silly" model. In my perfect world, admittedly, this thing would be EVEN GRIMMER, but I still enjoy it. How the biggest controversy the release of an army of anime space fish/chickens sees is over the design of a flyer, when the prevailing attitude in regards to 40k seems to be "HOW UNREALISTIC!" at everything, is beyond me.
I'm in the minority in that I like the skulldozer. Like a few on here, I like that its got that OTT throwback look that is right at home with a Chaos Marine or Daemon army. As long as it can be used in non-Apocalypse games and the rules are at least on par with the Riptide and WK, I'll get one for my Daemon army (they can certainly use the firepower). If its Apocalypse only, I'll have to take a pass.
On a side note, does this mean that GW is bringing Apocalypse into the main fold and away from Forge World?
via an anonymous source (from the Faeit 212 inbox)
I am getting small bits of information regarding the Apocalypse Supplement release.
Apocalypse
Only the Imperial Guard and Orks are not getting an a new Apocalypse vehicle, but they could be getting new apoc aircraft. It seems so that all armies will have 1 apoc vehicle and 1 aircraft.
Forgeworld
We should be seeing a FWapoc book same month as GWapoc release covering all vehicles and aircraft from previous apoc books
Seems a bit wishy-washy on whether armies are getting a flyer and a non-flier, but it's a rumor. With how popular Sisters of Battle are among GW, chances are that they'll be shoehorned in with the Marines of Various Colors release.
Any speculation on what the Apocalypse model for Tau or Eldar or Dark Eldar could/will be?
via an anonymous source (from the Faeit 212 inbox)
I am getting small bits of information regarding the Apocalypse Supplement release.
Apocalypse
Only the Imperial Guard and Orks are not getting an a new Apocalypse vehicle, but they could be getting new apoc aircraft. It seems so that all armies will have 1 apoc vehicle and 1 aircraft.
Forgeworld
We should be seeing a FWapoc book same month as GWapoc release covering all vehicles and aircraft from previous apoc books
Seems a bit wishy-washy on whether armies are getting a flyer and a non-flier, but it's a rumor. With how popular Sisters of Battle are among GW, chances are that they'll be shoehorned in with the Marines of Various Colors release.
While this does sound interesting, the fact they're only doing three to four new kits with CODEX releases gives me doubts that they'd have six to twelve big kits released in the same month for a supplement.
Although maybe Eldar will get the Scorpion/Tempest they should've gotten instead of the Wraithknight.
via an anonymous source (from the Faeit 212 inbox)
I am getting small bits of information regarding the Apocalypse Supplement release.
Apocalypse
Only the Imperial Guard and Orks are not getting an a new Apocalypse vehicle, but they could be getting new apoc aircraft. It seems so that all armies will have 1 apoc vehicle and 1 aircraft.
Forgeworld
We should be seeing a FWapoc book same month as GWapoc release covering all vehicles and aircraft from previous apoc books
Seems a bit wishy-washy on whether armies are getting a flyer and a non-flier, but it's a rumor. With how popular Sisters of Battle are among GW, chances are that they'll be shoehorned in with the Marines of Various Colors release.
While this does sound interesting, the fact they're only doing three to four new kits with CODEX releases gives me doubts that they'd have six to twelve big kits released in the same month for a supplement.
Although maybe Eldar will get the Scorpion/Tempest they should've gotten instead of the Wraithknight.
As long as it's not just a wraithknight squadron I'll be happy.
Yeah a big kit per race is a considerable stretch. I think we'll get two big kits (Khornemower and something else, maybe that cool new Monolith), and then some gap-filler relaeses (Hydra, Harpy, Colossus/Medusa/Griffon).
Breotan wrote: I wonder if the SM will get a proprer Fellblade?
Seeing as FW already supplied one, I doubt they'll get a plastic one.
Really? Based on what? You do realize that the Baneblade, Bommer, Deathstrike, Drop Pod, Manticore, Piranha, Trygon, Valkrie, and the Venerable Dreadnought were all done by Forge World only to come out years later in plastic by GW. I'll grant you that it may be too soon between FW's Fellblade and expecting to see one by GW but it isn't out of the realm of posibility. What else would the Space Marines get then, assuming we're using Epic as source material here?
You haven't noticed that GW haven't really been making FW kits into regular plastic kits recently? The Hydra would likely be the last one as that mould is ancient and a plastic one all but ensures the barrels won't be bent.
And FW never made a Deathstrike, and all the GW made flyers with the exception of the Valk are not remakes of FW stuff. Not even the Ork one.
It's official policy I believe. There aren't going to be any more FW -> GW ports. FW stuff isn't even making it into codexes anymore (like the FW artillery pieces did in the IG book)
If and when they get around to redoing IG, there might be plastics for the things that are already in the codex, but who knows.
Anyway that khorne thing looks completely ridiculous and I think I'm probably going to laugh every time I see one on a gaming board, but it does trip some kind of nostalgia switch somewhere in my brain, so I can't actually bring myself to hate it. I certainly don't want one, though.
Okay, I forgot that FW never actually produced a Deathstrike. Big woop. As long as GW isn't producing another kit like that Land Raider Terminus Ultra thing, it's all good.
A Kvlt Ghost wrote: Anyway that khorne thing looks completely ridiculous and I think I'm probably going to laugh every time I see one on a gaming board, but it does trip some kind of nostalgia switch somewhere in my brain, so I can't actually bring myself to hate it. I certainly don't want one, though.
So far "Skulldozer" and "Skullmower" are my favorites.
Breotan wrote: Okay, I forgot that FW never actually produced a Deathstrike. Big woop.
And you're going to ignore everything else I just said just to single out the one nit-pick I made?
Breotan wrote: As long as GW isn't producing another kit like that Land Raider Terminus Ultra thing, it's all good.
Oh no. We'll get a whole new proper Terminus Ultra kit, with actual Terminus Ultra sprues and not just "stick these Predator parts on your Land Raider and call it a day".
GW is not entirely backward thinking, sometimes they produce kits have portability built in.
For example all you need for some nice swappability is a Land Raider a Whirlwind and round cover plate with a sensor on top to fit in the heavy bolter hardpoint (this isnt provided).
You see the Whirlwind missile mount has two turret rings, the smaller inner one fits on a Land Raider with no conversion needed, just leave the crew hatch loose. The heavy bolter mnount from the Land Raider is swapped out to turn ther Whirlwind into a Razorback and the conversion part aforementioned completes the Land Raider as a Helios. It all swaps in and swaps back, Whirlwind and stock Land Raider or Helios and Razorback.
Now admittedly Terminus Ultra was just a bad idea, but we can avoid the steaming piles while using the good stuff. Nothing wrong with a Helios IMHO and because of swapabile hardpoints you arent stuck with it.
Darth Bob wrote: I disagree with the assertion that the issue with the Lord of Battles is the concept itself. I think it's an error in the execution. Luckily, I find that most of the issues seem to emanate from the body portion rather than the tracks. That could be fixed and/or converted. After all, I think if it had looked something more like this, people would have been quite pleased. I would have, at least:
When I was just getting into 40K, I saw a reference to a Leman Russ tank and the first thing I pictured was a massive tank with the top half of a primarch stuck on top of it, much like that one.
Juggalo17 wrote: Loving the Khornmower lol, i see that it might require a little work to get it to where we want it, particularly a face lift, here is what i plan to do with it ATM, (excuse the crappy photoshop skills)... face lift and barrel extention... for the face im thinking like this guy (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1710142a) but bigger
That simple change brings that model from a 4/10 for me to a 7+/10. Massive improvement, a simple head swap.
All I got from looking at khorne model was the torso with a lot of conversion would look awesome on a dreamforge Leviathan. Then the tracks would be good for making a battlewagon/ the big Apoc ork tank.
That's my feelings on the matter, oh and the Necron mega'liths rock.
Hmm..
Who is willing to bet that they'd make a 50 Euro Apocalypse book and that every army gets a supplement for their units and formations for another 30 or so?
While I highly doubt the 'release' for Apoc is going to include so many models, the information on Nafka doesn't use the term model, so they could be saying that each army gets a new unit rules-wise. This would be later followed by model releases, or maybe not. Just a thought.
On a side note...because I feel the need to throw my wishlisting out for the world to see...if Eldar gets a Scorpion/Cobra combo kit...I will need to find a way to ride my bike to work as my car will be sold to buy Eldar goodies
Farseer Faenyin wrote: While I highly doubt the 'release' for Apoc is going to include so many models, the information on Nafka doesn't use the term model, so they could be saying that each army gets a new unit rules-wise. This would be later followed by model releases, or maybe not. Just a thought
My thoughts exactly. I was thinking that, while some armies will surely be getting new big huge toys, others will do with just formations or flier squadrons, just like the old Apoc did.
Automatically Appended Next Post: In that sense, the Ork Dakkajet/Bommer sqwadron is pretty much a given
If every army is getting an apoc unit - what are Eldar getting?
We've got our shiny new knight, but that is most definitely 40k.
What other eldar super heavies (in the fluff) are there?
Not counting phantoms, revenants, cobras, scorpions and everything else already available from FW.
I'm still hoping for a bright stallion....
Two words- Aspect Knights.
An upgrade sprue kit that will let you turn your Wraithknight into an Aspectwraith, either a Wraithscropion, Wraithhawk, Wraithspider, Wraithdragon, Wraithbanshee, or Wraithdealer.
Each kit will also include Exarch bits for when you field a Wraithsquad of Aspectwraiths, and want a Wraithxarch.
The Wraithspear kit is sold separately, and contains a jetbike the size of a baneblade, bristling with Wraithguard gunners and turrets, plus the lance of longinuus, a deadly new powerspear.
Actually, I started this post as absurd, but I think that would actually be a really popular product.
Farseer Faenyin wrote: While I highly doubt the 'release' for Apoc is going to include so many models, the information on Nafka doesn't use the term model, so they could be saying that each army gets a new unit rules-wise. This would be later followed by model releases, or maybe not. Just a thought
My thoughts exactly. I was thinking that, while some armies will surely be getting new big huge toys, others will do with just formations or flier squadrons, just like the old Apoc did.
They will get the Blood Cauldron. It's an open topped transport with a 30 model capacity (up to 3 individual squads.) Any allied Grey Knights in base contact with the Blood Cauldron may, as a melee attack, destroy the Blood Cauldron. Remove all transported models as casualties with no save of any kind allowed. All Grey Knights within 12" are blessed with their sacred blood and gain +1 Str and Tou for every 5 models removed this way.
I think the surprise would be if the Sisters actually got something, rather than the reverse. The release of a Sisters codex is a sure-fire way to plot the end of a 40K edition cycle, after all.
-Shrike- wrote: What super-heavies does Chaos have, Slayer le Boucher? List all of the ones that have models.
I've already covered this once, let's see if he tries to dodge it again.
From GW? None. From FW Plenty. Chaos Reaver, Chaos Warhound, Brass Scorpion, and the Blood Slaughterer.
Of which, two are not cult specific, and two are Khorne. Which goes counter to his original statement that implied Khorned rarely gets anything, with GW favoring Nurgle and Slaanesh. Which is why he's not counting FW stuff. And his argument still fails.
-Shrike- wrote: What super-heavies does Chaos have, Slayer le Boucher? List all of the ones that have models.
I've already covered this once, let's see if he tries to dodge it again.
From GW? None. From FW Plenty. Chaos Reaver, Chaos Warhound, Brass Scorpion, and the Blood Slaughterer.
Of which, two are not cult specific, and two are Khorne. Which goes counter to his original statement that implied Khorned rarely gets anything, with GW favoring Nurgle and Slaanesh. Which is why he's not counting FW stuff. And his argument still fails.
Point of order: The Blood Slaughterer isn't a Super Heavy, it's just a standard Walker.
Mad Boss Morgrot wrote: Just reminds me of this boss from a smash TV. Hideous!.... Like most of the chaos stuff really....
haha yes.. "Big money, big prizes", had that as my phone msg tone for a while, until it started to turn people in my vicinity to despair
I was thinking about this 'miniature' (inverted commas for a reason), and that it looks like a children's toy. But really, I wonder how much of it is just down to my own perceptions changing. For every 'serious' looking model kit, of something like the Valkyrie, there is another that looks like it should fire plastic missiles and play sound effects. I mean really, take a long hard look at the Leman Russ
I think that years have made this model acceptable, when you look at it subjectively (and forget a child's memories of running over marines with it - yes I'm thinking about to 2nd edition!) it's actually pretty crappy when measured against both real-world and many other fantasy conceptions of what a tank should look like. I really think they should be able to do much better these days..
tl;dr, some of these new plastic kits are a bit more outrageous, more blingy, but they really aren't that different from what GW has done for most of its existence..
-Shrike- wrote: What super-heavies does Chaos have, Slayer le Boucher? List all of the ones that have models.
I've already covered this once, let's see if he tries to dodge it again.
From GW? None. From FW Plenty. Chaos Reaver, Chaos Warhound, Brass Scorpion, and the Blood Slaughterer.
Of which, two are not cult specific, and two are Khorne. Which goes counter to his original statement that implied Khorned rarely gets anything, with GW favoring Nurgle and Slaanesh. Which is why he's not counting FW stuff. And his argument still fails.
Point of order: The Blood Slaughterer isn't a Super Heavy, it's just a standard Walker.
Point taken. I don't pay enough attention to Khorne to know what is and isn't an Apoc unit. Even with my apathy to the cult, though, I notice enough to know that Slayer le Boucher's notion that Khorne is under loved by the studio in favor of Nurgle and Slaanesh is nonsense.
Add salt bla blabby bla blab:
"via an anonymous source (from the Faeit 212 inbox)Apocalypse
Only the Imperial Guard and Orks are not getting an a new Apocalypse vehicle, but they could be getting new apoc aircraft. It seems so that all armies will have 1 apoc vehicle and 1 aircraft.Forgeworld
We should be seeing a FWapoc book same month as GWapoc release covering all vehicles and aircraft from previous apoc books"
unmercifulconker wrote: Add salt bla blabby bla blab:
"via an anonymous source (from the Faeit 212 inbox)Apocalypse
Only the Imperial Guard and Orks are not getting an a new Apocalypse vehicle, but they could be getting new apoc aircraft. It seems so that all armies will have 1 apoc vehicle and 1 aircraft.Forgeworld
We should be seeing a FWapoc book same month as GWapoc release covering all vehicles and aircraft from previous apoc books"
I wouldn't be suprised at all to see no other releases other than the two apoc kits. It might be GW's month to 'catch up' with the unfilled demand for kits they haven't been able to make because they've been so busy with their insanely fast release schedule.
Farseer Faenyin wrote: While I highly doubt the 'release' for Apoc is going to include so many models, the information on Nafka doesn't use the term model, so they could be saying that each army gets a new unit rules-wise. This would be later followed by model releases, or maybe not. Just a thought
My thoughts exactly. I was thinking that, while some armies will surely be getting new big huge toys, others will do with just formations or flier squadrons, just like the old Apoc did.
To be honest. I kinda like the Lord of Battles/ Deathdealer. Not because its a goodlooking minature or a great piece of wargaming art made plastic. Its just that I can't stop smiling when I see it. It's so ridiciulous it makes me happy. Maybe I get one just as an expensive antidepressant
A treadmill, a gun and an axe. May as well give him a giant fork and belch smoke. Make him like a cartoony live action villain ala power rangers or a giant godzilla villain. It's a very ridiculous model.
Mad Boss Morgrot wrote: Just reminds me of this boss from a smash TV. Hideous!.... Like most of the chaos stuff really....
It reminded me more of that boss in doom 3 that wielded the BFG and had a treadmill instead of legs.
Concepts don't always translate well into 3d form.
I can see the elements individually and imagine the pitch meeting and sketches. But translating that into 3d space....lost.its edge.
I think the thing most people are put off by with the khornmower is that the torso is so humanoid. All other daemon engines have animalistic design. From the crab-like defiler to the dragon-like heldrake, the gorilla-like maulerfiend to the rhino-like juggernaut.... where as this guy is basically a giant berzerker on wheels. That being said I really like it!
Not forgetting, of course, that we only have one picture. A picture that's a scan of a picture of one angle of one model, in the studios typically sub-optimum paint scheme. I have no doubt that many more people will like it in the flesh
I actually really like the Khorne engine...
I just wonder how they will handle Apoc this time around. If it is anything like the last edition then i will not be playing it.
Whats the use of massive models that you can only use if you agree to let every opponent use anything he might want to throw at it? Ive seen waaaay too many "Kill the big bad titan." lists for it to even be remotely entertaining to field one.
I cant say I dislike the khorne blood/gore/skull knight (10 bucks its going to be called one of those) but I just wish it wasn't so khorny. I mean, just make a general, unmarked chaos titan thingy. If you get one, you could use any paintjob/conversion to show which god (if any) it is dedicated to. Making it specifically khorne means its not as appealing to other players like me who field Thousand Sons or others who have nurgle or slaanesh themed armies. Really, it is a well-detailed model, but it lacks versatility. Give me something that can look like its dedicated to any chaos god and you have my money. Give a khorne monstrosity and... well... those necron megaliths look cool.
If every army is getting an apoc unit - what are Eldar getting?
We've got our shiny new knight, but that is most definitely 40k.
What other eldar super heavies (in the fluff) are there?
Not counting phantoms, revenants, cobras, scorpions and everything else already available from FW.
I'm still hoping for a bright stallion....
Tempest Grav-tank, and possibly an "extra-large" Wave Serpent based on the original design that could carry thirty men.
The big tanks are:
Cobra and Scorpion - which FW already produces (The tempest is actually another name for the Scorpion)
Then there's the Void Spinner - a beefed up Night Spinner
Finally, there's the Storm Serpent which is a kind of mobile webway gate
Edit:
At a pinch, I suppose they could turn the Deathstalker Prism cannon into a super heavy - just think up-gunned Fire Prism
I'm keen for it, as I believe the painting and conversion opportunities that offers will be awesome. Buy base model, magnets etc and twerk it out, finna get one and do it up large
If every army is getting an apoc unit - what are Eldar getting?
We've got our shiny new knight, but that is most definitely 40k.
What other eldar super heavies (in the fluff) are there?
Not counting phantoms, revenants, cobras, scorpions and everything else already available from FW.
I'm still hoping for a bright stallion....
Tempest Grav-tank, and possibly an "extra-large" Wave Serpent based on the original design that could carry thirty men.
The big tanks are:
Cobra and Scorpion - which FW already produces (The tempest is actually another name for the Scorpion)
Then there's the Void Spinner - a beefed up Night Spinner
Finally, there's the Storm Serpent which is a kind of mobile webway gate
Edit:
At a pinch, I suppose they could turn the Deathstalker Prism cannon into a super heavy - just think up-gunned Fire Prism
If you look on the inside cover art on the new eldar book there is a super heavy like the cobra/scorpion with Large Night Spinner Cannons, all the way to the right by the large pillar in foreground
But on topic, I think we will get those deals (and special boxes) for Apocalypse 2: The Apocalypsing because GW had oodles of cash during that period and a lot of it was down to huge amounts of big box deals.
I mean, that "Space Marine Company" box was amazing. How could they not do that again? I mean, going on their track record it'd now be a half company (for the same price), but still!
There are definitely new Necron models coming some time soon. The regional director for GW came into the Dudley store for a meeting with the store manager the other day and since it was so quiet I could hear them chatting out the back, and they were discussing ' freeing up shelf space for the new Necron models'. Didn't hear anything about Khorne mind you, but I live in hope - I love Khorne!
H.B.M.C. wrote: I mean, that "Space Marine Company" box was amazing. How could they not do that again? I mean, going on their track record it'd now be a half company (for the same price), but still!
I still have mine. It was an amazing deal and has only gotten more so with the price hikes. At the time it was $450US (I think?), and the contents are currently worth about $860US at retail.
But on topic, I think we will get those deals (and special boxes) for Apocalypse 2: The Apocalypsing because GW had oodles of cash during that period and a lot of it was down to huge amounts of big box deals.
I mean, that "Space Marine Company" box was amazing. How could they not do that again? I mean, going on their track record it'd now be a half company (for the same price), but still!
Haha I totally forgot about those sets, god damn they looked awesome, does anyone have a list of what they were? Forgotten most of em.
I would love for apoc 2.0 to see dread armies or some vanguard type sets, 30 wraith blades and 2 wraith lords.
About the new khorne thingy, we are only seeing one side of the model, it may well look better from different angles, and have better wargear than just what we see. It also may have interchangable heads, so lets not get away with ourselves until we see more of the model, because as I remember there was loads of hatred towards other grainy models of new releases e.g. plague drones, tau flyers, land speeder... wait a mo, people still don't like that.
10 Leman Russ tanks for $275...mmmm, almost sorry I missed out on that one (I only buy GW from the FLGS anymore unless they just cannot get an item in). Now "worth" $495!
GW actually produces good deals when they want to; the christmas megaforces and the apoc boxes were great, and they had no problems selling. Funny that, offer people a decent deal, and you move a ton of a product. I'd be more interested in those than whatever hamfisted superheavies they come out with.
Frankly, FW has already designed good superheavies, and GW's own design studio can't make things half as good looking as them. Frankly, it'd make good business sense to import FW models which sell particularly well into the main plastic line, like, say, a $150 - $190 plastic Thunderhawk. But GW doesn't want to do that anymore, and will stick to its own vastly inferior aesthetic, which means I'm not terribly interested in what they produce.
I have my plastic Baneblade (though I wish they had kept the sleeker aesthetic of the FW one, rather than rivetmania), and my marines don't need a superheavy, so colour me disinterested in whatever sillyness they produce if the leaked images are any indicator.
New data sheets? For existing models? Why would they do that? Wrong rules in the codex?
I'll just assume you haven't read the original Apocalypse books. Datasheets don't just cover single models, they also cover grouping of a certain model/unit(say 10 Leman Russes) or involving a certain model/unit in a group of other models(CCS + 3 Platoons). If you bring the required models for the Datasheets, you're granted special rules and/or additional Apocalypse Assets.
What the rumors are saying is that there are Datasheets in the new version of Apocalypse that features the new models recently put out in the 6th ed books, say a Datasheet featuring multiple Riptides.
New data sheets? For existing models? Why would they do that? Wrong rules in the codex?
I'll just assume you haven't read the original Apocalypse books. Datasheets don't just cover single models, they also cover grouping of a certain model/unit(say 10 Leman Russes) or involving a certain model/unit in a group of other models(CCS + 3 Platoons). If you bring the required models for the Datasheets, you're granted special rules and/or additional Apocalypse Assets.
What the rumors are saying is that there are Datasheets in the new version of Apocalypse that features the new models recently put out in the 6th ed books, say a Datasheet featuring multiple Riptides.
Ah yes of course. Forgot about those sheets, I had only separate Vehicle and Monstrous Creature rules in mind.
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote: I suspect GW won't be offering any of those amazing boxes like they did last time when Apocalypse launched?
Well my wallet is hoping so anyway.
It's more likely than you think, actually.
With the Release of Eldar, they offered reboxes of three Support Weapon Batteries and three the War Walkers for less than the cost of three boxes individually. Then again, they reboxed Dire Avengers for a 100% markup.
Avian wrote: Given tDG's record of accuracy (less reliable than asking your cat), that most likely means nothing new for Khorne EVER.
This. Good Lord, a thousand times this. Anyone else remember his CSM legions rumours? There is no way Khorne are getting two dual kits for this release. It also makes no sense financially, you can't concentrate all of your efforts into an extremely small sub-section of players. An undivided, or Tzeentch/Slaanesh release would get far more customers than a second Khorne model.
Although he could be right about the price... that's ~£75? £80? Sounds about right for something that size, but I will be irate, and downright ****ed off with GW if the Monolith costs more than £80.
With the Release of Eldar, they offered reboxes of three Support Weapon Batteries and three the War Walkers for less than the cost of three boxes individually. Then again, they reboxed Dire Avengers for a 100% markup.
Yeah, I thought they marked up the Dire Avengers too when I walked into my FLGS and saw the box, I had a small army based around the battleforce box a few years ago and so I guess I have 15 avengers at half the price . I really don't get why GW has to mark up the price so high for old models (ehrm... VC blood knights). I haven't looked at the new eldar codex, but unless they basically doubled in points and effectiveness then I don't see why they should have a price increase, especially when they are then same models too.
I'm hoping that they really work on how Titans and gargantuan creatures work. Currently, they GG creatures are superior..to titans...which created an imbalance when those hit the table. I'm also hoping they change how Structure points work. The 6th edition band aid that FW applied with 3 HP = 1SP ...I'm not a fan of.
The whole idea of hull points and Super heavies is garbage, IMHO. But because they sold enough tanks last edition, I fully expect GW to reduce it to 1 SP = 2 HP.
1 SP = 4+ HP would be much better. And they really need to fix Crew Shaken - it now stops the entire Super Heavy from shooting.
I really want to see the actual name of the Skulldozer/Khornebine Harvester/Khornemower now. Deathdealer? I don't know, I just don't imagine GW will keep the old epic names.
But if it is a deathdealer, mine will be killed Scrambles. Scrambles the Deathdealer. Hopefully someone will get the reference.
There are a few kits they could easily bring in and make money off of due to them being dual-kits. Some armies have been overdone, so as much as I could see Macharius or Malcador kits...probably won't happen due to the Baneblade and Stormblade being so readily available and popular.
But I could see a kit for the two types of Tau Tigershark, Eldar Scorpion/Cobra, Mechanicus/Dark Mech Knight Titan...etc
Great, now I have images of 'zerks with straw hats, wearing ceramite dungarees and chewing a stalk.
Wonder how long that model will be, can get scale combine's measuring about 30cm in length...
So just because I was wondering, and I have photoshop, here are some size comparisons I did...
The first is the Lord of Awesome. This size comparison was based on the size of the head of a Juggernaut (specifically, the one on the front right, facing the camera), and using a Bloodcrusher in as close to a similar pose as I could find, then comparing the size of that Bloodcrusher's base, to the Wraithlord's base, both being 60mm.
The second is comparing the Megalith, using the size of the flying base the one on the left is sitting on, with as close to a similarly angled Wraith Knight base as I could find.
I'm really skeptical of the actual size of the Lord of Battles, but unless those Juggernaut heads sticking out of it are significantly smaller, it should be close to this size. The Megalith is also pretty substantial, especially when spread out.
MajorStoffer wrote:GW actually produces good deals when they want to; the christmas megaforces and the apoc boxes were great, and they had no problems selling. Funny that, offer people a decent deal, and you move a ton of a product. I'd be more interested in those than whatever hamfisted superheavies they come out with.
Frankly, FW has already designed good superheavies, and GW's own design studio can't make things half as good looking as them. Frankly, it'd make good business sense to import FW models which sell particularly well into the main plastic line, like, say, a $150 - $190 plastic Thunderhawk. But GW doesn't want to do that anymore, and will stick to its own vastly inferior aesthetic, which means I'm not terribly interested in what they produce.
I have my plastic Baneblade (though I wish they had kept the sleeker aesthetic of the FW one, rather than rivetmania), and my marines don't need a superheavy, so colour me disinterested in whatever sillyness they produce if the leaked images are any indicator.
They offer those mega-forces and Apocalypse boxes for just those occasions; and because it's a short run, special event, or limited edition product, it sells well. That's why they fly off the shelves. But the core game still has its own market value, and not everyone needs or wants to buy 3 Drop Pods at once, for example.
GW's Baneblade looks every bit as good as the Forgeworld one; I know, a friend of mine owns (and plays) both. It's also easier to assemble, easier to transport, and more durable than the soft, brittle resin. The lines are also cleaner, the seams come together straighter, and the mold lines are simpler to remove. So "...can't make things half as good looking..." is an exaggeration that holds no water in this discussion.
It doesn't make great business sense to port Forgeworld models, as it cuts into one business they profit from (Forgeworld), to profit from another. Then people like you would claim the FW ones look twice as good as the GW ones, so they wouldn't exactly fly off the shelf.
Your marines may not need a super-heavy, but there are thousands of marine players who would probably buy one in a heartbeat. The Forgeworld Thunderhawk has NOT sold that well, but I wager a plastic one would be perpetually sold out. Even if it were $200.
minionboy wrote: So just because I was wondering, and I have photoshop, here are some size comparisons I did...
The second is comparing the Megalith, using the size of the flying base the one on the left is sitting on, with as close to a similarly angled Wraith Knight base as I could find.
I'm really skeptical of the actual size of the Lord of Battles, but unless those Juggernaut heads sticking out of it are significantly smaller, it should be close to this size. The Megalith is also pretty substantial, especially when spread out.
Any chance of having a comparison shot (best guess) with the "megalith" and the regular Monolith?
Baineblade wrote: So far, I have not seen anyone make the truest connection here...SKULLDOZER IS KILLDOZER'S UGLY AS SIN COUSIN FROM THE 42ND MILLENNIUM!!!!
(I'm sorry..I had to...I just...I had to.)
Someone made the connection about a page or two in....
brassangel wrote: GW's Baneblade looks every bit as good as the Forgeworld one; I know, a friend of mine owns (and plays) both. It's also easier to assemble, easier to transport, and more durable than the soft, brittle resin. The lines are also cleaner, the seams come together straighter, and the mold lines are simpler to remove. So "...can't make things half as good looking..." is an exaggeration that holds no water in this discussion.
That is impossible. It is not possible to have too many rivets, like it is not possible to have too many skulls. In any case, removing rivets is way easier than adding them.
via anonymous source (from the Faeit 212 inbox) wrote: the Apocalypse release will be three books -The Standard Book Edition will be 60,00€ -There will also be a Collectors edition, but no price as of yet -A Big Gamers Edition for 200,00€ (Something very big in it)
€60? Is that the price of the rulebook, ie £45? I might think twice unless it's also 400+ pages.
Collector's Edition? This is Apocalypse, your book will be manhandled frequently. Don't bother.
€200? What could possibly justify that?
Ifurita wrote: For 200 euros, that rulebook better come packaged with a Forgeworld superheavy.
€250, I'd say you could be right. I think €200 might be a bit low, unless you're looking at the IG range. Although I reckon it will probably be made of flayed skin, written in blood, and bound within a wrought iron chest, for that sort of price.
It looks to me like the special edition (fancy dust jacket) is NOT the same as the 200 Euro Gamers Edition. I just hope that, for that much, it's more than the templates, backpack, and dice that the previous Apoc Gamers edition was.
Frankly, FW has already designed good superheavies, and GW's own design studio can't make things half as good looking as them. Frankly, it'd make good business sense to import FW models which sell particularly well into the main plastic line, like, say, a $150 - $190 plastic Thunderhawk. But GW doesn't want to do that anymore, and will stick to its own vastly inferior aesthetic, which means I'm not terribly interested in what they produce.
I disagree about GW's design studio. They have shown they can make fantastic looking models (DE); they just choose not to in many cases... However, the Khorne harvestor thingy looks like it is straight from the 80s.
Ignatius-Grulgor wrote: Oh yes oh god yes, apocalypse is basically my favourite thing to play, and they go and put a massive chaos kit out for it, looks like it's time to sell off all the junk I have sitting around doing nothing to prepare for the inevitable wallet destruction this will offer for me. I've been looking forward to this being made official for a long time, was really worried it wouldn't happen.
I have never played Apoc but I did just buy a stompa so kinda works out nicely :-)
I am actually a Chaos player and i must say (though its been said to death) our recent releases have to be the worse of a recent bunch (even our 'dex is meh). Enough so to make me go and buy up some Orksies. At least they got gaming flavour yo!
Back on topic. It would be nice if one of the races got a new release that wasn't just "BIGGA". Like for instance SM's in heavy duty suits that were made for Super Heavy hunting. Maybe with Melta weapons to bore into the Super Heavy then they destroy it from the inside the way they use Termies for Space Hulk's. Would also reflect SM's tactical precision.
Oh and for all the Khorne model bashing we have been doing lets remember that the Monolith actually looks quite nice. Really evokes the idea that its spinning up to blast something!
Zanderchief wrote: I have never played Apoc but I did just buy a stompa so kinda works out nicely :-)
I am actually a Chaos player and i must say (though its been said to death) our recent releases have to be the worse of a recent bunch (even our 'dex is meh). Enough so to make me go and buy up some Orksies. At least they got gaming flavour yo!
Back on topic. It would be nice if one of the races got a new release that wasn't just "BIGGA". Like for instance SM's in heavy duty suits that were made for Super Heavy hunting. Maybe with Melta weapons to bore into the Super Heavy then they destroy it from the inside the way they use Termies for Space Hulk's. Would also reflect SM's tactical precision.
Oh and for all the Khorne model bashing we have been doing lets remember that the Monolith actually looks quite nice. Really evokes the idea that its spinning up to blast something!
The Chaos codex is performing extremely well at tournaments, so I don't know what the gripe is there. Plus, all the new 6th ed codices are relatively balanced with one another, and have more in them to play around with than their 5th edition counterparts.
What is it about Khorne imagery that bothers people? The fact that they are brass and red? Oh wait... The fact they have skulls and Khorne symbols on them? Oh wait... The fact they look like a bunch of folks who like to get close and bloody? Oh wait... Granted, the Blood Throne thing was a little...weird, but the Bloodcrushers/Skullcrushers are great, as is the Herald and standard Warriors champion(s). This new Khornemower is classic 40k, which a strange number of people clamor for every day on here (then complain when they get it).
I think it's pretty good stuff. I'll reserve final judgment on the Detasseler until I see all of the bits available to it. There's no way the first photo we've gotten tells the whole story. Every new flyer/MC/walker/tank released nowadays comes with a billion options.
The codex is performing well because its got a few tricks. But its hardly balanced. Winning isn't the only thing about gaming also.
Yes the Khorne thingy looks dead killy but it also looks dead silly. I wouldn't go to the extremes of some observations but looks silly in a world of already silliness. Maybe something Skeltor would build to fight He-Man.
Although there is obviously a split between those that like the old skool and those that like the "GrimDark". Personally i prefer the latter. I look at some old models and think they look terrible. I wasn't into the game back then so nostalgia doesn't work for me either.
A good model can make up for poor rules by being a nice display piece. A poor model is still going to look silly, no matter if it has BS5 and a Str D AP1 heavy 30 weapon or not.
I'm thinking two choices. If the Imperial Knight model is real, then the WD cover picture leak was intentional by GW themselves. They leak the Chaos model to stir up some interest but leave the Imperial equivalent for the actual release. Alternatively if the leak wasn't intended there's no way someone who had the chance wouldn't have snapped a picture from one of the pages inside with pictures of the Imperial walker. The only reason they wouldn't do that is because no such Knight model exists.
Minx wrote: Wasn't there a gamers edition for the sixth 40k rule book? Came with a (fake?) leather bag, dice, etc.
Same with the FW Horus Heresy book, and its cover - probably made for pennies, but gives an excuse to whack an extra £20-30 to try and give the impression that it is something other than mass-produced.
Would much rather just pay £30-35, as with every other FW book, but once again they have to try and take the piss and charge double the amount.
Personally I think they would have been better advised to charge a reasonable price for the book, and then make more money on the model sales that would come from people buying the book and then wanting to buy the cool models described in it. No doubt the HH series things are selling well, but as the first genuinely 'new 40k' thing in years (and the fact that they dump on some of these new 'official' GW releases from a height of about 10 miles), I thought they had the potential to be massive. Alas, short-sighted greed got the better of them and twas not to be.
Anyway.. moan to have in a different thread perhaps!
Pacific wrote:
Would much rather just pay £30-35, as with every other FW book, but once again they have to try and take the piss and charge double the amount.
guessing you dont buy many FW books then, as every IA apart from the small addons like aeronautica is in the £50 range. The materials used int eh HH book were also a cut above the (already excellent)_ quality of IA books
kit like that Land Raider Terminus Ultra thing, it's all good.
. I really don't get why 
is probably also Slaanesh.
