Love the little feet sticking out. But yeah, the DK's legs won't be big enough for that.
Saw a pic on 4chan last night that was the top of the Khornemower with some very well designed spider legs (ala the Defiler). It was drawn, and looked quite nice... but at that point it ceases being a Lord of Battle and just becomes a slightly different Defiler.
I saw a concept drawing someone did, I think it was on /tg/, that had the lord of skulls torso drawn up onto either 6 or 8 large, defiler like legs. I'd imagine if one was to combine the mechanical bits from 2 legs per leg, it would make a solid enough base for the Lord of skulls to be mounted on. Still, I don't think the model is inherently bad looking, with some conversion work it could practically be converted to any chaos army and god denomination.
The_Chaplain wrote: I saw a concept drawing someone did, I think it was on /tg/, that had the lord of skulls torso drawn up onto either 6 or 8 large, defiler like legs. I'd imagine if one was to combine the mechanical bits from 2 legs per leg, it would make a solid enough base for the Lord of skulls to be mounted on. Still, I don't think the model is inherently bad looking, with some conversion work it could practically be converted to any chaos army and god denomination.
I saw the same thing, as I mentioned earlier, and really as good as it looked it just becomes a "big defiler", and really then what's the point?
The_Chaplain wrote: I saw a concept drawing someone did, I think it was on /tg/, that had the lord of skulls torso drawn up onto either 6 or 8 large, defiler like legs. I'd imagine if one was to combine the mechanical bits from 2 legs per leg, it would make a solid enough base for the Lord of skulls to be mounted on. Still, I don't think the model is inherently bad looking, with some conversion work it could practically be converted to any chaos army and god denomination.
I saw the same thing, as I mentioned earlier, and really as good as it looked it just becomes a "big defiler", and really then what's the point?
Well by that logic, a brass scorpion of khorne is a "big defiler" too. It all depends on how fanciful you want to get with your conversion. A lot of people complain about the tread base, or at least did when the model was revealed, and people are simply posing alternatives at this point.
Not really, because a Brass Scorp isn't a torso on spider legs. A Defiler is. A Plague Hulk is. A Soul Grinder is. Giving the Khornemower legs is just making it more like the other things.
Khornemower is fine imo. It's no Forgeworld vehicle concept, but it's over-the-top in a good way and reminds me of something out of the old days of 40k.
The amount of skulls on it, particularly the Khorne symbol banner, is the worst part.
I just read the data sheet for the Khorne Lord of Skulls in the new white dwarf. It has 9HP, daemon, it will not die, and deamon forge. So it has a 5+ invuln against all attacks. Run a daemon detachment with the grimoire and you can bump it up to a 3+, as the grimoire can affect any model with the daemon rule.
Also, the model is AWESOME. As in wickedly cool. You really have to see the closeups of the side and back for all the detail, but it is incredible. The white dwarf has a full painting tutorial for the model as well for an awesome alternate brass color scheme.
It is 888Pts base, but tricked out with the upgrades you would want, clocks in at 1000Pts.
However as others have said the legs just aint big enough. Sadly simply because it is possible to do a Photoshop doesn't mean it is possible to do the model. A big defiler would be more feasible. Or simply make the legs from plasticard and hard work.
With the size of the model counting as FW bloodthirster?
CthuluIsSpy wrote: My first idea was to mount him on a pillar of skulls and just have him float across the battlefield on it. No idea how to pull that off though :/
Conversion is fun! No idea why GW doesn't seem to like it anymore
There is a whole conversion section in the rule book, and I'm sure most white dwarfs have a conversion corner.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: My first idea was to mount him on a pillar of skulls and just have him float across the battlefield on it. No idea how to pull that off though :/
Conversion is fun! No idea why GW doesn't seem to like it anymore
There is a whole conversion section in the rule book, and I'm sure most white dwarfs have a conversion corner.
Huh, must have missed those two pages.
I guess they just don't like making your own terrain then.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: My first idea was to mount him on a pillar of skulls and just have him float across the battlefield on it. No idea how to pull that off though :/
Conversion is fun! No idea why GW doesn't seem to like it anymore
There is a whole conversion section in the rule book, and I'm sure most white dwarfs have a conversion corner.
Huh, must have missed those two pages.
I guess they just don't like making your own terrain then.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: My first idea was to mount him on a pillar of skulls and just have him float across the battlefield on it. No idea how to pull that off though :/
Conversion is fun! No idea why GW doesn't seem to like it anymore
There is a whole conversion section in the rule book, and I'm sure most white dwarfs have a conversion corner.
Huh, must have missed those two pages.
I guess they just don't like making your own terrain then.
I'm still not sure where that idea comes from.
4th ed rule book: Contains instructions on how to make your own gaming table and structures
5th : Doesn't exist.
6th ed : Doesn't exist
3rd Edition Necron Codex : guide on how to make your own tomb world crystals.
5th ed Necron Codex: Nothing of that sort here.
There is no new "make your own terrain book"
It appears that GW is pushing their own terrain sets and discouraging making your own. They aren't flat out banning it, but they aren't really helping either.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: My first idea was to mount him on a pillar of skulls and just have him float across the battlefield on it. No idea how to pull that off though :/
I wouldn't even bother with a tracked unit; the idea of an armored monstrosity propelled by a whirlwind of blood / skulls is enough.
Conversion is fun! No idea why GW doesn't seem to like it anymore
Now that's given me an interesting idea, instead of trying to model standing legs you could use the track base and remodel the front so that he's got legs, but seated on a throne of skulls.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: My first idea was to mount him on a pillar of skulls and just have him float across the battlefield on it. No idea how to pull that off though :/
I wouldn't even bother with a tracked unit; the idea of an armored monstrosity propelled by a whirlwind of blood / skulls is enough.
Conversion is fun! No idea why GW doesn't seem to like it anymore
Now that's given me an interesting idea, instead of trying to model standing legs you could use the track base and remodel the front so that he's got legs, but seated on a throne of skulls.
That sounds pretty neat. It also makes sense considering how he's a Lord of Skulls.
It would also be completely metal as feth. In the good way.
Now I can read Guy Haley's book and visualize it all better.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, wow, you're allowed to have 4 sponsons on one tank. Jeez. I guess the 200 points to make it a High Command unit is justified somewhere else in the book?
Now I can read Guy Haley's book and visualize it all better.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, wow, you're allowed to have 4 sponsons on one tank. Jeez. I guess the 200 points to make it a High Command unit is justified somewhere else in the book?
Always been able to. All my Stormlords are slated to be set up that way, when I get to them in the build/paint Queue.
Edit: I am somewhat less than thrilled to see that the cost of the Stormlord has gone up, too.
It seems that Warlords and the teams Warmaster will have special abilities (that Finest Hour stuff), perhaps there is a list of those for armored vehicles?
To celebrate the new Apocalypse Edition, GW has discontinued most cheap squadron bundles like Eldar Warwalkers and Vypers.
Some became standard products though like the ancient Eldar jetbikes, SM bikes and Crisis Suit sets.
Kroothawk wrote: To celebrate the new Apocalypse Edition, GW has discontinued most cheap squadron bundles like Eldar Warwalkers and Vypers.
Some became standard products though like the ancient Eldar jetbikes, SM bikes and Crisis Suit sets.
Kroothawk wrote: To celebrate the new Apocalypse Edition, GW has discontinued most cheap squadron bundles like Eldar Warwalkers and Vypers.
Some became standard products though like the ancient Eldar jetbikes, SM bikes and Crisis Suit sets.
War walker link looks to be broken though, so you might have something there.
It does look like GW discontinued it, quite possibly because the 1-click bundle is based on individual, not the discounted price of 3, and thus to make the bundles add up and not be a scam, they axed the discounted sets.
Instead of, you know, reducing the price of the bundle accordingly to its normal 0% discount.
Well, they already got hullpoints with the FWApoc update for 6th edition so not much news there, just the removal of the SP system from the looks of it. I wonder if that also means the different damage table has gone.
As fars as the Command upgrade goes. From readin that I get the impression there's something special rules for High Command formations, might be that the rules changed from what the command upgrade used to be, maybe the 200pts cost will actually be justified.
Alpharius wrote: What's the "Command" option for the Baneblade get you?
And, whatever it is, could it possibly be worth 200 points?
Also, I really hope the oddball cool stuff like Imperators are still in.
But, even if they aren't, this is Apocalpyse, and we'll just have to 'make do' with rules from the last time around!
the pic in Brooks post looks like the "command" option makes the SHV a HQ choice and a "high command formation".
I'd guess formation beeing the important part.
Or, Solar Macharius himself is giving you tips ( read : bonuses ) , if you pay the fee of 200 points...he liked Baneblades as rides...
Gertjan wrote: I wonder if that also means the different damage table has gone.
There is still a super heavy damage chart. I managed to decipher the small text in the latest WD of the teaser pics of the rulebook and it referenced a super heavy damage chart.
Not the HellBaron... the baron was all meat and threw green stuff.
It's a Little like bit like the doom cyberdeamon. It looks about the right size but too heavily armoured... But it's got horns and its Massive with a massive Gun for its left arm...
New pics on WhiteDwarf's blog!
Command tank:
The vehicle is a high command formation as well as a super heavy vehicle, and counts as an HQ choice.
Assets:
FlankMarch: Only allows one formation to flank march
OTher assets but I can't read them that well at work.
That Baneblade Cross-section is enough to make me buy the entire book. I salivate at the thought of GW releasing a Star Wars-esque cross section book of details on various weapons of 40k.
Blind barrage - Place two markers 24" apart and scatter each 2d6". Any line of sight the crosses the line between the markers is blocked. Remove them at the start of the next enemy turn.
Camouflage - Choose a friendly HQ, all friendly models within 24" get Shrouded for the first game turn
Flank March - One formation enters play from any table edge
Mine field - Mark a minefield 6" by 36" it must be located in open ground, in your DZ. It is dangerous terrain
Orbital Strike - Shooting Phase, Infinite Range Strength: D/7/4 AP: 1/3/- Ordnance 1, Apocalyptic Mega-Blast
Precise Coordinates - Use at start of turn. All friendly units that deep strike will not scatter this turn
Re-arm - Use at start of turn. All friendly units can replenish one-use only weapons they have used
Replacements - One friendly apoc formation that has been destroyed may be replaced at full strength through ongoing reserves. Cannot be used for any formation that has one or more models that has 15??? or more HP
Shield Generator - Place a market more than 6" from an enemy model. No friendly unit that has the majority of its models within 6" of the marker may be targeted by enemy shooting attacks. One turn.
I actually really like that. I wish GW had done that from the start. If that thing actually does manage to fit the Leviathan legs, someone totally needs to make a mod kit to articulate the arms.
It does but a Khorne gorilla body type is still a bit more appropriate than the angry bulldozer cyborg look. It'll be nice to eventually see if the crusader legs do fit the top torso of that GW model.
Agreed, if anyone knows the actual dimensions of the K-power mower I can work up a much more correct representation of what the legs would scale like in comparison to the upper body. I thought I saw that it was 8" tall? but I cannot find that quote again...
I think the problem isn't so much that it's top heavy, but that its arms are too short. If they were longer, the whole thing would look more in proportion.
Agreed, if anyone knows the actual dimensions of the K-power mower I can work up a much more correct representation of what the legs would scale like in comparison to the upper body. I thought I saw that it was 8" tall? but I cannot find that quote again...
Measuring almost 6" tall, and just over 7" in length, this huge kit comes with a number of assembly options.
Agreed, if anyone knows the actual dimensions of the K-power mower I can work up a much more correct representation of what the legs would scale like in comparison to the upper body. I thought I saw that it was 8" tall? but I cannot find that quote again...
Measuring almost 6" tall, and just over 7" in length, this huge kit comes with a number of assembly options.
Now I can read Guy Haley's book and visualize it all better.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, wow, you're allowed to have 4 sponsons on one tank. Jeez. I guess the 200 points to make it a High Command unit is justified somewhere else in the book?
I wouldn't be surprised if that picture and the book don't match up. GW is consistently inconsistent with fluff. Especially concerning vehicles.
Shield Generator - Place a market more than 6" from an enemy model. No friendly unit that has the majority of its models within 6" of the marker may be targeted by enemy shooting attacks. One turn.
But what does the market sell? GW products, I'd wager. Can't shoot the customers while they're shopping!
Here are some pics of the best guess scaling using the 15mm scale Leviathan Crusader legs (soon to be released) The full size 28mm scale kit was WAAAYYYY too big to use with this kit.
but really, i think hes..meh..just not my style, but a daemon engine to me would be hard to do in plastic due to (in my opinion) needing to have a more organic machine fusion. and the price..well....i cant say im shocked, but GW kinda lost me awhile back in the pricing realm.
I think all of those ideas look way worse than GW's Epic 40k throwback. It's not like this was the absolute best they could come up with, or they sat around a board room and brainstormed this thing up. They specifically took a crummy old epic model, blew it up for 40k, and added swappable options. It reeks of nostalgia, while still fitting the current 40k aesthetic.
Call me a loner, but I'm a fan of the Khornemower; and even though I like the model, I love that nickname you guys attach to it as well.
Now I can read Guy Haley's book and visualize it all better.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, wow, you're allowed to have 4 sponsons on one tank. Jeez. I guess the 200 points to make it a High Command unit is justified somewhere else in the book?
I wouldn't be surprised if that picture and the book don't match up. GW is consistently inconsistent with fluff. Especially concerning vehicles.
First, you could take extra sponsons on the baneblade before. Second, the command upgrade is that expensive because it makes it both a HQ selection and a High Command formation, which seems to grant you an extra strategic asset (though I would guess you can only have 1 Supreme HQ in your army). And it does match up, as the points cost for command tank is the same on both the iTunes Baneblade pic and the GW Stormsword pic
Now I can read Guy Haley's book and visualize it all better.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, wow, you're allowed to have 4 sponsons on one tank. Jeez. I guess the 200 points to make it a High Command unit is justified somewhere else in the book?
I wouldn't be surprised if that picture and the book don't match up. GW is consistently inconsistent with fluff. Especially concerning vehicles.
First, you could take extra sponsons on the baneblade before. Second, the command upgrade is that expensive because it makes it both a HQ selection and a High Command formation, which seems to grant you an extra strategic asset (though I would guess you can only have 1 Supreme HQ in your army). And it does match up, as the points cost for command tank is the same on both the iTunes Baneblade pic and the GW Stormsword pic
Um, clearly you missed the point of everything you quoted. We were talking about the cross-section picture and Guy Haley's book 'Baneblade'. I was not discussing the rules picture at all.
NoseGoblin wrote: Here are some pics of the best guess scaling using the 15mm scale Leviathan Crusader legs (soon to be released) The full size 28mm scale kit was WAAAYYYY too big to use with this kit.
Not a perfect fit but a little less suck IMO…
I love this idea! It would almost make it worthwhile to buy the Khornemower.
Now I can read Guy Haley's book and visualize it all better.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, wow, you're allowed to have 4 sponsons on one tank. Jeez. I guess the 200 points to make it a High Command unit is justified somewhere else in the book?
I wouldn't be surprised if that picture and the book don't match up. GW is consistently inconsistent with fluff. Especially concerning vehicles.
Yeah... Maybe it's just me, but I can only seem to see 2 decks + turret deck in the cross-section, while Baneblade depicts it as 3 decks + turret deck. Oh well...
H.B.M.C. wrote: I think he looks better on his bulldozer than he does on legs. Honestly the legs just make him look more static... and dull.
Agreed.
I honestly don't think the Khornemower looks that bad, with it's regular helmet. It's not as good as the Tesseract Vault, but it's not near as bad as the first picture I saw.
Personally its the tanks on the back that throw me off. I would likely remove the tanks and center his torso on the treds. but that is likely not going to happen with him packing that hefty a price tag.
NoseGoblin wrote: Here are some pics of the best guess scaling using the 15mm scale Leviathan Crusader legs (soon to be released) The full size 28mm scale kit was WAAAYYYY too big to use with this kit.
Not a perfect fit but a little less suck IMO…
When I get my 15mm leviathan, I think I might do this, but maybe keep the Leviathan arms too... I dunno... there will be magnets involved for sure
First thing i thought of was "why doesnt that khorne thing have bloody legs? If I decide to convert it, I might go for a more defilier feel though, just to have the same table size as the tank body. Perhaps draggin chains of skulls/bodies?
Hell, I don't understand why it has a body. It would look so much better if the upper body was just completely mechanical or robotic, and only vaguely looked like an armored human torso (as opposed to now where it just looks like a fething WHF Chaos warrior 3-up stuck on a tank). Thinking sort of like an Ork vehicle here, with long, thin metal arms with hydraulics and stuff that end in blades, guns, etc. and a demonic mask/face not unlike the FW decimator.
Now I can read Guy Haley's book and visualize it all better.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, wow, you're allowed to have 4 sponsons on one tank. Jeez. I guess the 200 points to make it a High Command unit is justified somewhere else in the book?
I wouldn't be surprised if that picture and the book don't match up. GW is consistently inconsistent with fluff. Especially concerning vehicles.
First, you could take extra sponsons on the baneblade before. Second, the command upgrade is that expensive because it makes it both a HQ selection and a High Command formation, which seems to grant you an extra strategic asset (though I would guess you can only have 1 Supreme HQ in your army). And it does match up, as the points cost for command tank is the same on both the iTunes Baneblade pic and the GW Stormsword pic
Um, clearly you missed the point of everything you quoted. We were talking about the cross-section picture and Guy Haley's book 'Baneblade'. I was not discussing the rules picture at all.
I was responding to the "Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, wow, you're allowed to have 4 sponsons on one tank. Jeez. I guess the 200 points to make it a High Command unit is justified somewhere else in the book?" part.
The cross section is nice, but I personally like the Baneblade on the cover, where the gun barrel apetures are still large, but are actually realistic for once.
Lobukia wrote: When I get my 15mm leviathan, I think I might do this, but maybe keep the Leviathan arms too... I dunno... there will be magnets involved for sure
If you're going to go that far, you might as well just chaos up a 15mm Morti (skullface dontchaknow) and cut out GW completely.
Lobukia wrote: When I get my 15mm leviathan, I think I might do this, but maybe keep the Leviathan arms too... I dunno... there will be magnets involved for sure
If you're going to go that far, you might as well just chaos up a 15mm Morti (skullface dontchaknow) and cut out GW completely.
This is a thought that pleases me.
No kidding! My god why would you spend $160 on that thing and then buy a 15mm crusader and then throw away 70% of the khornemower.
"The skullhurler fires, you'll not be surprised to learn, a massive skull, which creates a vast explosion upon impact, sending out hundreds of daemonically infused skulls to chomp their way through nearby enemies."
Davor wrote: I wonder what is the percentage of people who actually play Apocalypse games of all 40K gamers.
I am curious as to how many people actually play Apocalypse all the time. Is this played alot, or just once in a blue moon?
14.886%
Or, the real answer, no way of knowing...
Automatically Appended Next Post: via Apocalypse 40K's FodaBett
Scoring
Scoring is done based on the number of strategic objectives controlled each break and at the end of the battle. There are six new scenarios to play and several dozen Strategic Assets, which allow you to outmaneuver your foes, place minefields in front of them or bombard them from orbit. Unnatural disasters erupt across the warzone or magma storms fall from the sky while seismic explosions rip apart the battlefield. Your Warlords can even perform heroic acts during the game, which could potentially turn the tide of battle. Just make sure they don't get killed while doing it there's nothing quite so tragic as having your commander blown to bits in their finest hour.
Formations
Necton Tesseract Vault and the Obelisk: Both of the Vaults have the Seismic Assault Ascendant Power (you've got to give them two out of a list of six, and all of them are truly nasty), which unleashes a massive 6D6 S8 AP3 shots per turn (new apoc barage). The Obelisk: its Gravity Pulse ability automatically hits enemy flyers in both shooting phases.
Space Marine Battle Company: Orbital Strike Strategic Asset and the Comrades-in-Arms rule, which enables all squads in the Battle Company to fire overwatch for nearby allies when they are assaulted.
Tau Riptide Wing: 3+ Riptides gains Coordinated Attacks and Networked Reactors
IG Baneblade: 525 pts (with no sponsons), can take 2 sets of sponsons for 50pts a pair (lost option for flamer sponsons and option for extra armor), commisar tank upgrade for 45pts, and command tank upgrade for 200pts. HK/Stubber/SB all as guard codex
Space Marine Librarius: five+ Librarians, will unleash a Force Vortex. Woe betide anyone who is caught in that!
Space Marine Predator Assassin Squadron: Three new Predator Annihilators should be a match for most armoured targets (their killshot rule makes their firepower even more dangerous than usual. making them fire as a D-weapon if all their lascannons hit). At the start of the game I have to nominate a chosen target and they do a lot better against that (all weapons are twin-linked), but as long as I choose the right formation for the right targets, they will be deadly.
CSM Legionnaire Warband: units have Hatred and be Fearless, so long as they're within 12" of a Space Marine. Warlord may call Finest Hour. So Death Guard with Typhus get Feel No Pain and Fearless.
CSM Heldrake Fear Squadron: pre-game Vector Strike, as well as its 'always-on ' Daemonforge.
Strategic Assets
Crusade Banner: Pick a Marine standard bearer, all marine units with models within 24" gain FNP
Camouflage: any army. Pick a friendly HQ unit. Friendly units within 24" of that model have shrouded the first turn of the game
Blind Barrage: The same
Trophy Kill: Strategic Asset rewards us with three extra victory points if we can kill the enemy Warmaster.
Entropic Plague: Strategic Asset, which, on the turn I use it, strips every model within 3D6" of my Warlord of its armour save.
"The skullhurler fires, you'll not be surprised to learn, a massive skull, which creates a vast explosion upon impact, sending out hundreds of daemonically infused skulls to chomp their way through nearby enemies."
Some things are just beyond parody...
That's just so utterly lazy and lacking in creativity I'm actually, genuinely, a bit sad.
I think I'm in mourning for the game I love, because it just doesn't exist right now.
"The skullhurler fires, you'll not be surprised to learn, a massive skull, which creates a vast explosion upon impact, sending out hundreds of daemonically infused skulls to chomp their way through nearby enemies."
Some things are just beyond parody...
The author must be really trying to do it, maybe an attempt to break free from the corporate mold. I can't believe anyone would write that with a straight face.
"The skullhurler fires, you'll not be surprised to learn, a massive skull, which creates a vast explosion upon impact, sending out hundreds of daemonically infused skulls to chomp their way through nearby enemies."
Some things are just beyond parody...
It's hilariously stupid and somehow kinda cool at the same time. Reminds me of the little skull things from Doom in a way.
Also, "networked reactors"...how the feth does that work? So one guy decides to blow himself up with his own reactor and they all do? Do they draw straws and whoever gets the big one gets the remote that controls the other two?
Automatically Appended Next Post: via Apocalypse 40K's FodaBett
Scoring
Scoring is done based on the number of strategic objectives controlled each break and at the end of the battle. There are six new scenarios to play and several dozen Strategic Assets, which allow you to outmaneuver your foes, place minefields in front of them or bombard them from orbit. Unnatural disasters erupt across the warzone or magma storms fall from the sky while seismic explosions rip apart the battlefield. Your Warlords can even perform heroic acts during the game, which could potentially turn the tide of battle. Just make sure they don't get killed while doing it there's nothing quite so tragic as having your commander blown to bits in their finest hour.
Formations
Necton Tesseract Vault and the Obelisk: Both of the Vaults have the Seismic Assault Ascendant Power (you've got to give them two out of a list of six, and all of them are truly nasty), which unleashes a massive 6D6 S8 AP3 shots per turn (new apoc barage). The Obelisk: its Gravity Pulse ability automatically hits enemy flyers in both shooting phases.
Space Marine Battle Company: Orbital Strike Strategic Asset and the Comrades-in-Arms rule, which enables all squads in the Battle Company to fire overwatch for nearby allies when they are assaulted.
Tau Riptide Wing: 3+ Riptides gains Coordinated Attacks and Networked Reactors
IG Baneblade: 525 pts (with no sponsons), can take 2 sets of sponsons for 50pts a pair (lost option for flamer sponsons and option for extra armor), commisar tank upgrade for 45pts, and command tank upgrade for 200pts. HK/Stubber/SB all as guard codex
Space Marine Librarius: five+ Librarians, will unleash a Force Vortex. Woe betide anyone who is caught in that!
Space Marine Predator Assassin Squadron: Three new Predator Annihilators should be a match for most armoured targets (their killshot rule makes their firepower even more dangerous than usual. making them fire as a D-weapon if all their lascannons hit). At the start of the game I have to nominate a chosen target and they do a lot better against that (all weapons are twin-linked), but as long as I choose the right formation for the right targets, they will be deadly.
CSM Legionnaire Warband: units have Hatred and be Fearless, so long as they're within 12" of a Space Marine. Warlord may call Finest Hour. So Death Guard with Typhus get Feel No Pain and Fearless.
CSM Heldrake Fear Squadron: pre-game Vector Strike, as well as its 'always-on ' Daemonforge.
Strategic Assets
Crusade Banner: Pick a Marine standard bearer, all marine units with models within 24" gain FNP
Camouflage: any army. Pick a friendly HQ unit. Friendly units within 24" of that model have shrouded the first turn of the game
Blind Barrage: The same
Trophy Kill: Strategic Asset rewards us with three extra victory points if we can kill the enemy Warmaster.
Entropic Plague: Strategic Asset, which, on the turn I use it, strips every model within 3D6" of my Warlord of its armour save.
I've been posting the same things here. Someone came behind me and posted the verbatim rules of the WD.
I've been posting the same things here. Someone came behind me and posted the verbatim rules of the WD.
Yeah, I had seen some of them before but it was a nice big summary all together. Also, it helps get people off of the ridiculous OT crud they've been on.
"The skullhurler fires, you'll not be surprised to learn, a massive skull, which creates a vast explosion upon impact, sending out hundreds of daemonically infused skulls to chomp their way through nearby enemies."
Some things are just beyond parody...
It's hilariously stupid and somehow kinda cool at the same time. Reminds me of the little skull things from Doom in a way.
Yeah, there is no way they wrote that without a smile. They just decided "Feth it, let's come up with something funny".
To me, that's what makes me love the Khornemower. Sure, it's ridiculous, OTT, silly, and extremely 80s, but I think that's the point. It's a modern re-imagination of a crazy Epic 40,000 war machine from days gone by, with today's modelling technology. I actually quite like the slightly more silly, darkly humourous direction they're taking, like they used to take back in the day. Like how Noise Marines were basically killer Hair Metal bands who literally made their opponent's intestines explode with the power of rock, and as such had mohawks, guitar-cannons, crazy leopard print colour schemes, and the like.
We loved that feel then, why can't we love it again?
"The skullhurler fires, you'll not be surprised to learn, a massive skull, which creates a vast explosion upon impact, sending out hundreds of daemonically infused skulls to chomp their way through nearby enemies."
Some things are just beyond parody...
It's hilariously stupid and somehow kinda cool at the same time. Reminds me of the little skull things from Doom in a way.
Someone asked me what I thought about the command tank upgrade?
Logically they could mean for the purposes of becoming a warlord/warmaster.
We know they're doing "different" things with warlords and making a "warmaster" which is an overall commander of the apoc team.
It wouldn't surprise me if this is so you can run just tank companies (as you really can't have a non-armored warlord without it).
I can see them saying:
Each player gets a warlord, one of those per team is nominated a warmaster for the event (Be sure to change warmasters every game so no one gets their feelings hurt).
Why do I get upset when I look at a collection of models they packaged together at ridiculous prices, add them up and see they cost EXACTLY the same if I ordered them individually.
I say to them "MEH".
Here is a fine opportunity to upsell by reducing packaging and reducing the cost slightly to get us fanboys to buy it because it is a deal. They did this with the last Apoc. it was awesome.
I do not feel love here. I feel used and want a divorce: the magic is gone.
Talizvar wrote: Well, GW has the Apoc. stuff on advanced orders.
Why do I get upset when I look at a collection of models they packaged together at ridiculous prices, add them up and see they cost EXACTLY the same if I ordered them individually.
I say to them "MEH".
Here is a fine opportunity to upsell by reducing packaging and reducing the cost slightly to get us fanboys to buy it because it is a deal. They did this with the last Apoc. it was awesome.
I do not feel love here. I feel used and want a divorce: the magic is gone.
I asked them this same thing with the Iyanden bundle, using the premise that if they offered even a 10% discount on that 1-click bundle, they'd save me enough money for another flyer kit... This is the response I got:
GW Customer Service Rep wrote:The one click bundles that appear on the website are meant to function for a quick and easy checkout process. Virtually all of the bundles we have packaged over the last year are either based on a theme. For example: the Iyanden bundle coinciding with the supplement, or they feature one of each new release for an army release.
See that bolded part? They're not trying to save you money, or thank you for buying direct, or any other reason that could be thought of as to why they could give you a discount on these bundles. They're literally saving you a few clicks...
See that bolded part? They're not trying to save you money, or thank you for buying direct, or any other reason that could be thought of as to why they could give you a discount on these bundles. They're literally saving you a few clicks...
Didn't you know? Each click is human energy and electricity saved, ergo, money saved!
Its part of GW, Humanitarian efforts. Imagine how difficult it is for a quadriplegic to click all those different things to order his army. GW is generous to offer such an advantage to their fanbase!
I'm guessing the SHV damage table will be interesting to read, along with a bunch of the new SHV rules - they'd have to be pretty damn durable to even remotely justify those prices...
That was the thing about Apocalypse: There was a point to the bundles. The original Battle Company? Captain + Command Squad + 6 Tactical Squads + 2 Assault Squads + 2 Devastator Squads + 9 fething Rhinos (and a Razorback for fun!) for about AUD$800 (and about US$400-500). Now it's over AUD$1k, and there are no Rhinos, but a few Dreads thrown in. The Land Raider formation (that had 4 Land Raiders IIRC), basically came with a free Land Raider. The Dread Mob had 3 Deff Dreadz.
And so on.
Apocalypse was a runaway success for GW last time because there was an actual point to buying the formations. Now they're just the same price as always.
The original Battle company box in terms of individual sets was: commander, command squad, 6 tactical squads, 4 assault squads, 4 devastator squads, 8 rhinos and a razorback. It provided you with 9 vehicles and 111 marines.
The new one has replaced two of the devastator squads with a seventh tactical squad. They could have done that with the first but someone obviously goofed (fortunately).
Essentially they've replaced 9 vehicles with 3 dreads and a chaplain. So the new one is 3 dreads and 110 marines.
Is there no savings again with this? There doesn't appear to be with the predator squad but I didn't check anything else. I was hoping they might do sets like the vindicator squad and the whirlwind/landspeeder squad, at a lower cost than buying individually. No point buying these formations otherwise.
That was the thing about Apocalypse: There was a point to the bundles. The original Battle Company? Captain + Command Squad + 6 Tactical Squads + 2 Assault Squads + 2 Devastator Squads + 9 fething Rhinos (and a Razorback for fun!) for about AUD$800 (and about US$400-500). Now it's over AUD$1k, and there are no Rhinos, but a few Dreads thrown in. The Land Raider formation (that had 4 Land Raiders IIRC), basically came with a free Land Raider. The Dread Mob had 3 Deff Dreadz.
And so on.
Apocalypse was a runaway success for GW last time because there was an actual point to buying the formations. Now they're just the same price as always.
The original Battle company box in terms of individual sets was: commander, command squad, 6 tactical squads, 4 assault squads, 4 devastator squads, 8 rhinos and a razorback. It provided you with 9 vehicles and 111 marines.
The new one has replaced two of the devastator squads with a seventh tactical squad. They could have done that with the first but someone obviously goofed (fortunately).
Essentially they've replaced 9 vehicles with 3 dreads and a chaplain. So the new one is 3 dreads and 110 marines.
Is there no savings again with this? There doesn't appear to be with the predator squad but I didn't check anything else. I was hoping they might do sets like the vindicator squad and the whirlwind/landspeeder squad, at a lower cost than buying individually. No point buying these formations otherwise.
I wonder if this plastics release will have the shortage issues (not necessarily due to demand but rather due to supply) that the tau and (to a lesser extent) the eldar releases had.
"The skullhurler fires, you'll not be surprised to learn, a massive skull, which creates a vast explosion upon impact, sending out hundreds of daemonically infused skulls to chomp their way through nearby enemies."
Some things are just beyond parody...
I'm pretty sure my IQ lowered about 8 points reading that.
The Baneblade at 400 points is a stretch. 550 with one set of sponsons? Come on. And 200 for a command thingy? They realise that the 200 points doesn't make it any more durable right?
I'm thinking (hopeing) that super heavys can only lose a hp due to pens, this would "balance" them a bit as at the moment they die way to easily to glances and for there cost (points/pounds) I'd like them to last a bit longer than my opponents first shooting phase.
That's what I had hoped for at the very least, or you know, +1 to BS, because if you're going to make is special, might as well make is super-special for that amount.
H.B.M.C. wrote: And 200 for a command thingy? They realise that the 200 points doesn't make it any more durable right?
If it isn't a typo it probably means that the command tank upgrade gives some kind of army-wide benefit beyond just upgrading the tank itself. If, for example, the command tank rule gives you an extra strategic asset you're probably going to buy it for every Baneblade in your army. And whatever it is, it's almost certainly not the same weak command tank upgrade as the old Baneblade.
I completely agree Peregrine. I'm sure it won't be the same command tank upgrade as before, but price increases of a significant percentage (this is a 40% price increase!) need to do more than just give a few rules even if they are army wide because it paints a giant target on the vehicle.
People are already irrationally afraid of super-heavies even though most of them are glass hammers and virtually all of them are one-gun wonders (what's a Shadowsword do once the Volcano Cannon is down? Answer: Sweet feth all!). Now tell your opponent that you took a 200 point upgrade to make your Baneblade into a Super-Duper Command Baneblade and what's he going to do? Leave it alone?
At 500 or 700 points it still only has 9 HP. Would you rather have a 700 point target, or spend those same 700 points on an equal amount of Leman Russes?
Essentially GW have taken the problems that plague smaller Super-Heavies (the Macharius's and Malcadors of this world) where they're not worth the points you pay and are often less useful than cheaper regular tanks (vanilla Macharius vs Land Raider - guess who wins?) and transferred them onto the bigger ones. That's bad. That's very bad. That's game-breakingly bad (unless HP's work differently in super-heavies, which I doubt).
It counts as a HQ choice and is part of the High Command formation, whatever that might mean.
Exactly the problem. We have absolutely no idea what the important part of the rule does. "HQ choice and high command formation" tells us nothing, it could be a game-breaking overpowered option or it could be a complete waste of 200 points.
H.B.M.C. wrote: At 500 or 700 points it still only has 9 HP. Would you rather have a 700 point target, or spend those same 700 points on an equal amount of Leman Russes?
I don't know. We have no idea what the upgrade does. It's possible that it's powerful enough that you'll get 200 points of benefit before your opponent kills it (or even that the benefit doesn't depend on the tank staying alive), or it could just be a complete waste of points. But speculating about how it's too expensive is just pointless right now.
Just to give an obvious example, let's consider the "free asset" hypothetical again. Let's say I take an orbital bombardment asset and use it on the first turn, before my opponent even gets a turn. I can pretty confidently say that I got 200 points of value out of it, and I'm going to be even happier if my opponent then treats my 500 point Baneblade as a 700 point threat instead of making better targeting decisions.
If it counts as an HQ then it can perform super heroic acts, whatever those are. They can change the balance of the game, does that mean they are really broken? Something we might ban from our club.
I doubt they brought back the FOC for apocalypse, the bane blade product page describes it as available to all armies in apocalypse.
midget_overlord wrote: If it counts as an HQ then it can perform super heroic acts, whatever those are. They can change the balance of the game, does that mean they are really broken? Something we might ban from our club.
I doubt they brought back the FOC for apocalypse, the bane blade product page describes it as available to all armies in apocalypse.
If your club is banning Apoc units, they have clearly missed the point!
But we might ban apocalyptic events if they start removing table tiles and changing the tide of battle with a meteor storm or any other cinematic events.
The advertisement claims heroic events can change the battle, i'm a little worried because we have players who always look to abuse the rules, that's why we have a 3 page-long document for our apocalyptic games.
unmercifulconker wrote: So that one click apoc bundle costing more than buying the seperate items was addressed by GW.
Do they amend the price of the bundle? Oh come on as if thats GW's style.
They just got rid of the multi squad eldar box sets which is the vypers, walkers and platforms so the price of the bundle is now accurate.
off GW now.
That really is the shadiest thing they've done in a long time. It takes a really low blow to stand out amongst GWs usual antics. Those 3 model sets even had packaging made right?
unmercifulconker wrote: So that one click apoc bundle costing more than buying the seperate items was addressed by GW.
Do they amend the price of the bundle? Oh come on as if thats GW's style.
They just got rid of the multi squad eldar box sets which is the vypers, walkers and platforms so the price of the bundle is now accurate.
off GW now.
That really is the shadiest thing they've done in a long time. It takes a really low blow to stand out amongst GWs usual antics. Those 3 model sets even had packaging made right?
I just shake my head in awe. Could these guys get any damn less scrupulous? I really don't think my opinion of them as a business could get any lower right now.
Shouldn't we be talking about the big August reveal now anyway?
I'm going BloodBowl re-release, finecast teams retailing at £75 quid a pop, additional books to field a star player and a special codex for cheerleaders detailing the history and attire throughout the ages, 60 pages of fluff detailing the diferent dance moves, and a 2 page spread of actual rules.
Thank god im settled with the armies I have now. I am staying away from GW for a good while until greed bites them back in the ass and they are slapped in the face by justice.
unmercifulconker wrote: Thank god im settled with the armies I have now. I am staying away from GW for a good while until greed bites them back in the ass and they are slapped in the face by justice.
Those datasheets look sweet. I can't wait to see more of them. All my armies are APOC sized...so it will be cool to see how the points changes to stuff alters the size of my armies. I really hope they kept the titanhammer formation. That was one of my favorite formations to run with by Black Templars. I'm also hoping that they actually put in some useful formations for DE for once...
Redemption wrote: Yup, they didn't even last a month before being taken of the shelf again.
Which is actually bizarre. One would imagine they plan these things way longer than month ahead, and they had to do make those new boxes. It is a really strange move.
Redemption wrote: Yup, they didn't even last a month before being taken of the shelf again.
Which is actually bizarre. One would imagine they plan these things way longer than month ahead, and they had to do make those new boxes. It is a really strange move.
Maybe they'll be back after the Apoc release is over and it's not making them look bad anymore.
I'm going BloodBowl re-release, finecast teams retailing at £75 quid a pop, additional books to field a star player and a special codex for cheerleaders detailing the history and attire throughout the ages, 60 pages of fluff detailing the diferent dance moves, and a 2 page spread of actual rules.
Not really, considering this is a thread about apoc.
SickSix wrote: Anyone know how many gamers and collectors editions were supposed to be available?
Would like to judge sales based on the email saying 'only 800 left!' for the gamers edition.
I think the (completely-hidden-and-non-searchable-because-advertising-is-the-devil) YouTube video said 1500 collector's. Of course, by the time that video came out the collector's was sold out in Oz, and today I got the newsletter saying "Buy the collector's/gamer's edition today!" despite the former having sold out by midday Saturday.
Friend of mine did manage to order that (he wanted the massive case). I just went for the book/templates/cards in the end (and a Khornemower, and the Eagle Cannon, two sets of turrets and two new bunkers...).
When having a look at the more troop heavy IG formations i noticed your actualy getting more bang for your money when not ordering the one click deals....
catachan ambush patroll => 3 troops with HW + HQ
or battleforce + troop = same money + free sentinel ( and 6 left over troopers)
Imperial shield company => 6 troops 3 HW platoons and 4 HQ+ + advisors
or 3 battleforce + extra HQ + advisors = same money + 3 free sentinels
somehow i can't get over the feeling of getting shortchanged yet again
seems like their realy helping you spend more on less instead of saving time and clicks
orc master wrote: When having a look at the more troop heavy IG formations i noticed your actualy getting more bang for your money when not ordering the one click deals....
catachan ambush patroll => 3 troops with HW + HQ
or battleforce + troop = same money + free sentinel ( and 6 left over troopers)
Imperial shield company => 6 troops 3 HW platoons and 4 HQ+ + advisors
or 3 battleforce + extra HQ + advisors = same money + 3 free sentinels
somehow i can't get over the feeling of getting shortchanged yet again
seems like their realy helping you spend more on less instead of saving time and clicks
Yeah my friend was telling me about the necron warrior formation where its the same cost for the warriors, but you dont get the scarab bases that come with each box. I havnt looked into it myself but I find it funny GW overlooked that.
Billagio wrote: Yeah my friend was telling me about the necron warrior formation where its the same cost for the warriors, but you dont get the scarab bases that come with each box. I havnt looked into it myself but I find it funny GW overlooked that.
Technically impossible. Scarabs are part of the Necron Warrior sprue, so you'll get them regardless of whether it says they're included. They mightn't give you any 40mm bases, but that's a different issue.
I'm really getting tempted to buy an Obelisk for my crons... So I have a spare shard, a super heavy for Apoc (Or I could attempt to convert into a monolith... not worth the effort, though) And 40 scarabs! Should be enough to build 12 scarab bases... 3 scarabs on each base (1 for each wound)
Anyone else super letdown by the c'tan model from the obelisk? I mean yeah they had to get it on a plastic sprue, but man it shows hard.
"one 2nd edition single piece pose coming right up!"
They didn't even make it full sized, and these things are supposed to be extra powerful? The collar on it looks EXTRA dumb going all the way up to the nose. It doesn't look scary or imposing at all and frankly all the effort making it look like its giving off tendrils of energy is totally wasted on the rest of its garbage features.
I agree, it certainly isn't as good as it could have been, but compared to other models GW has done lately, it really isn't too bad... looking at you dinobots and WoC monsters...
Matt.Kingsley wrote: I'm really getting tempted to buy an Obelisk for my crons... So I have a spare shard, a super heavy for Apoc (Or I could attempt to convert into a monolith... not worth the effort, though) And 40 scarabs! Should be enough to build 12 scarab bases... 3 scarabs on each base (1 for each wound)
Given the large size of the Obelisk, I wonder whether you could convert it into a pair of Monoliths. Would need to see sprue pictures and a side by side with a Monolith to get a better idea of the size.
ph34r wrote: Anyone else super letdown by the c'tan model from the obelisk? I mean yeah they had to get it on a plastic sprue, but man it shows hard.
"one 2nd edition single piece pose coming right up!"
They didn't even make it full sized, and these things are supposed to be extra powerful? The collar on it looks EXTRA dumb going all the way up to the nose. It doesn't look scary or imposing at all and frankly all the effort making it look like its giving off tendrils of energy is totally wasted on the rest of its garbage features.
I really like it. If you look in WD, there's one painted in a fiery red scheme for the battle report, which looks much better IMHO.
Alfndrate wrote: I asked them this same thing with the Iyanden bundle, using the premise that if they offered even a 10% discount on that 1-click bundle, they'd save me enough money for another flyer kit... This is the response I got:
GW Customer Service Rep wrote:The one click bundles that appear on the website are meant to function for a quick and easy checkout process. Virtually all of the bundles we have packaged over the last year are either based on a theme. For example: the Iyanden bundle coinciding with the supplement, or they feature one of each new release for an army release.
See that bolded part? They're not trying to save you money, or thank you for buying direct, or any other reason that could be thought of as to why they could give you a discount on these bundles. They're literally saving you a few clicks...
Thanks for the enlightenment, not what I wanted to hear but I appreciate it all the same .
Glad they do not want us to slow down selecting things to buy in case it is an impulse buy or our finger breaks part way through the order.
They are not quite lying but not being completely honest either.
So people will see no benefit spending for a "package deal" so they will get everything piecemeal.
Not the swiftest sales method I have ever seen but it is very much their style.
Might get the book but not looking at anything else with any excitement.
Must be getting jaded in my old age.
Ok. So there's a third unit in that box. Not just a C'Tan but a "Transcendant C'Tan", which must be one of the only-if-we-sell-a-kit-for-it new Apoc formations. Interesting.
Looking at the footprint of the vault compared to the flight stand it sits on I would guess that the Obelisk is pretty close to the same width as a monolith. I am going to assume it is around 9" tall since that is the description given in the WD. Without seeing a side by side I would guess it would be a fair stand in, But paying nearly triple the cost for a new sculp as a stand in for a monolith is not very cost efficient
I'm actually excited about Apocalypse this time around. But now I'm older and around more gamers that actually want to put painted models on the table at huge game sizes.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Technically impossible. Scarabs are part of the Necron Warrior sprue, so you'll get them regardless of whether it says they're included. They mightn't give you any 40mm bases, but that's a different issue.
But it's a one-click deal.
Don't they just send you 10 boxes of Warriors?
I really doubt that creating a new mould or repacking them would save them enough money to make it worth it.
orc master wrote: When having a look at the more troop heavy IG formations i noticed your actualy getting more bang for your money when not ordering the one click deals....
catachan ambush patroll => 3 troops with HW + HQ or battleforce + troop = same money + free sentinel ( and 6 left over troopers)
Could we please stop mentioning this before GW reads it and decides to "fix" it by removing Battleforces from their website?
Kangodo wrote: But it's a one-click deal.
Don't they just send you 10 boxes of Warriors?
I really doubt that creating a new mould or repacking them would save them enough money to make it worth it.
Of course, they just send you lots of Warriors. My point was them not advertising the fact that it will automatically come with Scarabs by default isn't a big deal because buying Warriors means you get Scarabs. They could just send sprues though, meaning no 40mm bases, but I doubt it.
Besides the Eldar codex that was released...this was the other release that I'm looking forward to. Two back-to-back releases that I've been waiting for. It's been a good couple of months. Sadly, after that...I can only look forward to a 6th Ed. DE codex...which is years away...
Chances are, however, it won't take much creativity to make the old stuff work in the new edition; nothing we've seen indicates radical changes in statlines or special rules associated with the superheavies.
I'm sure they could cobble together one from 100% purchased citadel parts from a dozen kits without making anything from scratch or having to resort to using anyone else's products (even down to the glue and hobby knife).
Squigsquasher wrote: There's already a perfectly serviceable Dark Eldar codex. I think you can last a few more years.
Define "perfectly serviceable", because the current DE codex is absolute trash in 6th edition. Not that it matters because no one gets updated based on "need", but still.
Squigsquasher wrote: There's already a perfectly serviceable Dark Eldar codex. I think you can last a few more years.
Define "perfectly serviceable", because the current DE codex is absolute trash in 6th edition. Not that it matters because no one gets updated based on "need", but still.
It is possible to make a legal, functional army with it.
Besides, I highly doubt it's as nerfed as everyone makes out. You've still got 4+ Poisoned shooting weapons on your basic troops unit, you have a variety of effective units, like Wracks, Razorwing Jetfighters, Venoms, etc, you're still one of the fastest armies in the game, and you can still do a huge amount of damage if you play well.
Requiring skill and finesse to use=/="Absolute trash".
I'm kinda curious, where are you guys (in the last page) getting that email that said that there was only 800 left? Everywhere else seems to still have it.
To be really honest, the entire Aquila Strongpoint looks like the small building from the Fortress of Redemption... What with the missile silos or a turret to be plopped on top. And 'lo and behold, the missile silo will again have LOS issues on anything that isn't a flyer. Too bad you probably can't Vortex a flyer (blast weapon, based on the template they've released)
Enigwolf wrote: To be really honest, the entire Aquila Strongpoint looks like the small building from the Fortress of Redemption... What with the missile silos or a turret to be plopped on top. And 'lo and behold, the missile silo will again have LOS issues on anything that isn't a flyer. Too bad you probably can't Vortex a flyer (blast weapon, based on the template they've released)
Vortex Weapons don't work as normal blast weapons, they're "everything under the template" as opposed to inflicting hits, which means they'd work on fliers. It doesn't ever have to inflict a hit on the flier to kill it. That could change though.
But there is still the issue that you can only shoot what you have line of sight to. Being sunken into the floor of a raised fortification surrounded by battlements leaves very little to what it can actually draw LOS to.
Savageconvoy wrote: But there is still the issue that you can only shoot what you have line of sight to. Being sunken into the floor of a raised fortification surrounded by battlements leaves very little to what it can actually draw LOS to.
It's an emplaced weapon, though, which means it's fired by a model in base contact. Said model would likely have a better view of the battlefield than the missile. Or it's barrage, like the Krakstorm battery.
Ok. So there's a third unit in that box. Not just a C'Tan but a "Transcendant C'Tan", which must be one of the only-if-we-sell-a-kit-for-it new Apoc formations. Interesting.
Transcendant C'Tan is supposedly what happens when the owner of a Tesseract Vault goes "crap, we're losing, better release a C'Tan" and let's the C'Tan out.
Savageconvoy wrote: But there is still the issue that you can only shoot what you have line of sight to. Being sunken into the floor of a raised fortification surrounded by battlements leaves very little to what it can actually draw LOS to.
It's an emplaced weapon, though, which means it's fired by a model in base contact. Said model would likely have a better view of the battlefield than the missile. Or it's barrage, like the Krakstorm battery.
The emplacement still needs LOS to the target, measured along the barrel of the weapon being fired much like a Vehicle. Otherwise I can park my ADL's quadgun behind a piece of LOS blocking terrain and have one guardsman sticking his head out to fire it at something.
Savageconvoy wrote: But there is still the issue that you can only shoot what you have line of sight to. Being sunken into the floor of a raised fortification surrounded by battlements leaves very little to what it can actually draw LOS to.
It's an emplaced weapon, though, which means it's fired by a model in base contact. Said model would likely have a better view of the battlefield than the missile. Or it's barrage, like the Krakstorm battery.
The emplacement still needs LOS to the target, measured along the barrel of the weapon being fired much like a Vehicle. Otherwise I can park my ADL's quadgun behind a piece of LOS blocking terrain and have one guardsman sticking his head out to fire it at something.
and for those reasons you can bet it will work in exactly the same manner as the missile silo on the FoR. you wont need LoS from the emplacement to fire it.
Enigwolf wrote: To be really honest, the entire Aquila Strongpoint looks like the small building from the Fortress of Redemption... What with the missile silos or a turret to be plopped on top. And 'lo and behold, the missile silo will again have LOS issues on anything that isn't a flyer. Too bad you probably can't Vortex a flyer (blast weapon, based on the template they've released)
Vortex Weapons don't work as normal blast weapons, they're "everything under the template" as opposed to inflicting hits, which means they'd work on fliers. It doesn't ever have to inflict a hit on the flier to kill it. That could change though.
i dont think thats how its going to work, in the HH book the vortex missiles cant affect flyers "after determining the final position of the marker, any models and removable terrain features touched by the blast are removed from the game (flyers are not affected). dont even thing of making any saves..."
Savageconvoy wrote: But there is still the issue that you can only shoot what you have line of sight to. Being sunken into the floor of a raised fortification surrounded by battlements leaves very little to what it can actually draw LOS to.
It's an emplaced weapon, though, which means it's fired by a model in base contact. Said model would likely have a better view of the battlefield than the missile. Or it's barrage, like the Krakstorm battery.
The emplacement still needs LOS to the target, measured along the barrel of the weapon being fired much like a Vehicle. Otherwise I can park my ADL's quadgun behind a piece of LOS blocking terrain and have one guardsman sticking his head out to fire it at something.
and for those reasons you can bet it will work in exactly the same manner as the missile silo on the FoR. you wont need LoS from the emplacement to fire it.
The missiles on the Aquila Strongpoint appear to stick up quite a bit from the surface of the deck. Might be relatively easy to draw line of sight from their tips, past the parapet crenelations to a target, unless the target is right up close to the strongpoint. It'll be interesting to see.
C’mon guys, really? We’re going to argue not only if you need to draw LOS for these missiles but also how you draw LOS from the tips of missiles (which doesn’t even make sense). This is pointless!
Ok. So there's a third unit in that box. Not just a C'Tan but a "Transcendant C'Tan", which must be one of the only-if-we-sell-a-kit-for-it new Apoc formations. Interesting.
Transcendant C'Tan is just rules for the C'Tan in the Obelisk if you build it closed and have a leftover C'Tan model. Probably a Gargantuan Creature (Character) unit.
H.B.M.C. wrote: C’mon guys, really? We’re going to argue not only if you need to draw LOS for these missiles but also how you draw LOS from the tips of missiles (which doesn’t even make sense). This is pointless!
Wait. ‘Til. The. Book. Is. Out.
Of course it doesn't make sense. Needing direct LOS on silo launched missiles doesn't make sense. Having them fire in any way that's not as a barrage wouldn't make sense, either. But if people are going to already get spun up that they are somehow not going to be able to fire them due to lack of LOS, when the only other silo fired weapon DOES fire as barrage (a surprisingly sensible move by GW), why not respond with a nonsensical suggestion on LOS for them in the meantime?
I subscribe to the digital WD and last night when I opened it since the initial download I received a message that it had been "Revised" and needed to be re-downloaded. Does anyone know what they changed?
Forgeworld's newsletter just announced that they're coming out with an apoc book and you can pre-order it at the "Enter the Citadel" event at warhammer world on the 13th.
We will also be offering you the exclusive chance to pre-order your copy of Forge World's new Imperial Armour Apocalypse book and will have copies for you to see on the day.
Foda_Bett wrote: Forgeworld's newsletter just announced that they're coming out with an apoc book and you can pre-order it at the "Enter the Citadel" event at warhammer world on the 13th.
We will also be offering you the exclusive chance to pre-order your copy of Forge World's new Imperial Armour Apocalypse book and will have copies for you to see on the day.
The biggest problem with the way that FW releases these big (expensive) supplements is that, as time goes on and codices get redone, more and more units get outdated and in need of revision, and they don't have a particularly good way to keep up with them short of waiting a bit and releasing another big (expensive) book to update those units, just in time for the OTHER units in the book to have their parent codices redone, setting up for the next cycle of problems.
CaptKaruthors wrote: Besides the Eldar codex that was released...this was the other release that I'm looking forward to. Two back-to-back releases that I've been waiting for. It's been a good couple of months. Sadly, after that...I can only look forward to a 6th Ed. DE codex...which is years away...
Don't you still have a guard army and Templars? They would be fun to play when their new books come out - you shouldn't have much to do with these armies other than pick up some of the newest releases...
shade1313 wrote: The biggest problem with the way that FW releases these big (expensive) supplements is that, as time goes on and codices get redone, more and more units get outdated and in need of revision, and they don't have a particularly good way to keep up with them short of waiting a bit and releasing another big (expensive) book to update those units, just in time for the OTHER units in the book to have their parent codices redone, setting up for the next cycle of problems.
Considering that a new codex is 50 dollars US plus tax, it doesn't seem so bad. Current rate on say Imperial Armour 1 2nd edition puts it at about 82 dollars.if you a few friends can go in a FW order together you can save the shipping. It's not so bad really.
shade1313 wrote: The biggest problem with the way that FW releases these big (expensive) supplements is that, as time goes on and codices get redone, more and more units get outdated and in need of revision, and they don't have a particularly good way to keep up with them short of waiting a bit and releasing another big (expensive) book to update those units, just in time for the OTHER units in the book to have their parent codices redone, setting up for the next cycle of problems.
Considering that a new codex is 50 dollars US plus tax, it doesn't seem so bad. Current rate on say Imperial Armour 1 2nd edition puts it at about 82 dollars.if you a few friends can go in a FW order together you can save the shipping. It's not so bad really.
But it IS really, really annoying when a new codex comes along and it takes a goodly amount of time to update units, or even worse, whole army lists.
Squigsquasher wrote: There's already a perfectly serviceable Dark Eldar codex. I think you can last a few more years.
Define "perfectly serviceable", because the current DE codex is absolute trash in 6th edition. Not that it matters because no one gets updated based on "need", but still.
I don't know about DE as a stand alone force but one player I know does get good results using them as an allied contingent for his Eldar army.
shade1313 wrote: The biggest problem with the way that FW releases these big (expensive) supplements is that, as time goes on and codices get redone, more and more units get outdated and in need of revision, and they don't have a particularly good way to keep up with them short of waiting a bit and releasing another big (expensive) book to update those units, just in time for the OTHER units in the book to have their parent codices redone, setting up for the next cycle of problems.
Considering that a new codex is 50 dollars US plus tax, it doesn't seem so bad. Current rate on say Imperial Armour 1 2nd edition puts it at about 82 dollars.if you a few friends can go in a FW order together you can save the shipping. It's not so bad really.
But it IS really, really annoying when a new codex comes along and it takes a goodly amount of time to update units, or even worse, whole army lists.
Furthermore FW actually does updates in between publications to date lists via PDF, which they do for free.
shade1313 wrote: The biggest problem with the way that FW releases these big (expensive) supplements is that, as time goes on and codices get redone, more and more units get outdated and in need of revision, and they don't have a particularly good way to keep up with them short of waiting a bit and releasing another big (expensive) book to update those units, just in time for the OTHER units in the book to have their parent codices redone, setting up for the next cycle of problems.
Considering that a new codex is 50 dollars US plus tax, it doesn't seem so bad. Current rate on say Imperial Armour 1 2nd edition puts it at about 82 dollars.if you a few friends can go in a FW order together you can save the shipping. It's not so bad really.
But it IS really, really annoying when a new codex comes along and it takes a goodly amount of time to update units, or even worse, whole army lists.
Furthermore FW actually does updates in between publications to date lists via PDF, which they do for free.
Like the Elysians, who got updated via a PDF...oh, wait, no, they got their update with Taros 2.0, along with Tau.
I'm sure the Eldar updates will be along any second now.
I don't mind redoing the actual Imperial Armour's every 5+ years.
What I mind is what they do for apoc Imperial Armour Apocalypse 1
Imperial Armour Apocalypse 2
Imperial Armour Apocalypse 1: Second edition
IAApoc1:2nd Ed was on sale for 3-4 months before it was pulled from the site. Why bother producing a book at that point? Why not just drop an FAQ or something?!
shade1313 wrote: The biggest problem with the way that FW releases these big (expensive) supplements is that, as time goes on and codices get redone, more and more units get outdated and in need of revision, and they don't have a particularly good way to keep up with them short of waiting a bit and releasing another big (expensive) book to update those units, just in time for the OTHER units in the book to have their parent codices redone, setting up for the next cycle of problems.
Considering that a new codex is 50 dollars US plus tax, it doesn't seem so bad. Current rate on say Imperial Armour 1 2nd edition puts it at about 82 dollars.if you a few friends can go in a FW order together you can save the shipping. It's not so bad really.
But it IS really, really annoying when a new codex comes along and it takes a goodly amount of time to update units, or even worse, whole army lists.
Furthermore FW actually does updates in between publications to date lists via PDF, which they do for free.
Proof? I am not familiar with this practice. Please send me a link to all of these updates.
shade1313 wrote: The biggest problem with the way that FW releases these big (expensive) supplements is that, as time goes on and codices get redone, more and more units get outdated and in need of revision, and they don't have a particularly good way to keep up with them short of waiting a bit and releasing another big (expensive) book to update those units, just in time for the OTHER units in the book to have their parent codices redone, setting up for the next cycle of problems.
Considering that a new codex is 50 dollars US plus tax, it doesn't seem so bad. Current rate on say Imperial Armour 1 2nd edition puts it at about 82 dollars.if you a few friends can go in a FW order together you can save the shipping. It's not so bad really.
But it IS really, really annoying when a new codex comes along and it takes a goodly amount of time to update units, or even worse, whole army lists.
Furthermore FW actually does updates in between publications to date lists via PDF, which they do for free.
Proof? I am not familiar with this practice. Please send me a link to all of these updates.
They haven't done any for 6th, but in the 5th ed release cycle, all their 4th ed books got updated army lists, with some notable revisions. As it stands, right now they're re-releasing their oldest books with some of their older army lists re-done, or with entirely new ones. They've stated that, for instance, the Seige Regiment will be done as a PDF, because the Vraks books are still fairly recent.
Foda_Bett wrote: IAApoc1:2nd Ed was on sale for 3-4 months before it was pulled from the site. Why bother producing a book at that point? Why not just drop an FAQ or something?!
TBH it was probably just a case of bad timing. IA:A(2nd) was a legitimate and badly needed book when it was published, and FW probably committed to it before GW decided to make Apocalypse this year's big release. Now between Apocalypse and 6th edition (remember this was a 5th edition book) large parts of it are probably invalid, so FW declined to make another print run after the first books sold out.
It's tempting to see this as greed, but look at it this way: why put your resources into publishing a book that will only be sold for 3-4 months before you replace it with another book? That's a lot of redundant effort that could be better spent on getting the next Heresy book out ASAP.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Proof? I am not familiar with this practice. Please send me a link to all of these updates.
They did a bunch of them in 5th. Unfortunately in 6th this seems to have stopped, as demonstrated by how they lied for months about how an Elysian drop troops update would be "soon" until we found out they were just stalling until IA3 could be published and we could pay $90 for the update. I'll leave it to you to decide whether this is their own greed or a direct order from GW management to stop putting out free rules.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Proof? I am not familiar with this practice. Please send me a link to all of these updates.
They did a bunch of them in 5th. Unfortunately in 6th this seems to have stopped, as demonstrated by how they lied for months about how an Elysian drop troops update would be "soon" until we found out they were just stalling until IA3 could be published and we could pay $90 for the update. I'll leave it to you to decide whether this is their own greed or a direct order from GW management to stop putting out free rules.
It turns out there's a downloads tab that I somehow missed
It seems there are some updates for sixth ed, but they all stop after July.
So does anyone have any legitimate news about what some of these formations do? How about the Finest Hour or Divine Intervention special rules? Exemplar Traits?
It seems Apoc is getting its own range of supplements called War Zones
War Zones are self-contained supplements for Warhammer 40,000: Apocalypse and they detail some of the most famous campaigns of the 41st Millennium. This section provides you with the necessary formations you need to relive these epic moments.
yeah, The collectors edition of Apocalypse gives you early acces to the second warzone Pandorax.
- Two Warzone compendiums containing background and additional formations for the wars of Armageddon and Pandorax. Both Warzones are styled as Imperial dossiers, of the sort you may find on a General's desk, and Pandorax is onlycurrently available in this Collector's Edition.
Panic wrote: yeah,
The collectors edition of Apocalypse gives you early acces to the second warzone Pandorax.
- Two Warzone compendiums containing background and additional formations for the wars of Armageddon and Pandorax. Both Warzones are styled as Imperial dossiers, of the sort you may find on a General's desk, and Pandorax is onlycurrently available in this Collector's Edition.
shade1313 wrote: The biggest problem with the way that FW releases these big (expensive) supplements is that, as time goes on and codices get redone, more and more units get outdated and in need of revision, and they don't have a particularly good way to keep up with them short of waiting a bit and releasing another big (expensive) book to update those units, just in time for the OTHER units in the book to have their parent codices redone, setting up for the next cycle of problems.
Considering that a new codex is 50 dollars US plus tax, it doesn't seem so bad. Current rate on say Imperial Armour 1 2nd edition puts it at about 82 dollars.if you a few friends can go in a FW order together you can save the shipping. It's not so bad really.
But it IS really, really annoying when a new codex comes along and it takes a goodly amount of time to update units, or even worse, whole army lists.
Furthermore FW actually does updates in between publications to date lists via PDF, which they do for free.
Like the Elysians, who got updated via a PDF...oh, wait, no, they got their update with Taros 2.0, along with Tau.
I'm sure the Eldar updates will be along any second now.
Any second.
Have you considered how old the original Taros Campaign book is? What, 2005? That's 8 years. Codices get refreshed faster than that. The changes in IA3E2 were aplenty rules-wise, and there was no possible way for this to have been simply a PDF update. The entire Elysian list was refreshed and completely updated, and all Tau models and the rules for them were also included as a bonus. As an Elysian player, I'm not complaining that I had to buy a new book. You don't see people calling for Codices to be updated by PDF, do you?
I'm not remotely complaining that there's a Taros V2.0, nor that they charge for it. I'll be buying it myself at some point. However, how long did they go on, assuring all and sundry who contacted them about Elysian updates to go with the IG codex update FOUR YEARS ago, that they were working on a PDF update on it?
They never once said that they were releasing a PDF update, only that they were updating it. I know because I contacted them about it, and even asked if it was going to be in PDF form or not a few years back - they mentioned it was unconfirmed at the time.
Have you considered how old the original Taros Campaign book is? What, 2005? That's 8 years. Codices get refreshed faster than that. The changes in IA3E2 were aplenty rules-wise, and there was no possible way for this to have been simply a PDF update. The entire Elysian list was refreshed and completely updated, and all Tau models and the rules for them were also included as a bonus. As an Elysian player, I'm not complaining that I had to buy a new book. You don't see people calling for Codices to be updated by PDF, do you?
Billagio wrote: Man, I just bought a stompa off ebay. I hope that its not gimped because its getting a huge points increase or is not very durable :(
Nah they won't nerd stompers!everybody knows the smaller titans are the better ones like war hounds or feral titans. They are far more cost effective! Plus the stompers death Kannon and super gatler are CRAZY good.
Have you considered how old the original Taros Campaign book is? What, 2005? That's 8 years. Codices get refreshed faster than that. The changes in IA3E2 were aplenty rules-wise, and there was no possible way for this to have been simply a PDF update. The entire Elysian list was refreshed and completely updated, and all Tau models and the rules for them were also included as a bonus. As an Elysian player, I'm not complaining that I had to buy a new book. You don't see people calling for Codices to be updated by PDF, do you?
Codex: Black Templars is from 2005 and "current".
All I'm stating is that Codices in general get refreshed faster than that, and when they do, we pay for them. Not that there aren't any old Codices (SoB comes to mind, too). Therefore, I don't understand why people complain that we need to pay for a refreshed Elysian and Tau list in IA3E2.
Have you considered how old the original Taros Campaign book is? What, 2005? That's 8 years. Codices get refreshed faster than that. The changes in IA3E2 were aplenty rules-wise, and there was no possible way for this to have been simply a PDF update. The entire Elysian list was refreshed and completely updated, and all Tau models and the rules for them were also included as a bonus. As an Elysian player, I'm not complaining that I had to buy a new book. You don't see people calling for Codices to be updated by PDF, do you?
Codex: Black Templars is from 2005 and "current".
All I'm stating is that Codices in general get refreshed faster than that, and when they do, we pay for them. Not that there aren't any old Codices (SoB comes to mind, too). Therefore, I don't understand why people complain that we need to pay for a refreshed Elysian and Tau list in IA3E2.
You really don't understand, because as I've already made clear, I'm not complaining about paying for IA3E2. I'm complaining that the format of the IA:A books, of having a few units for everyone, inevitably leads to entries going out of date with every codex release. The core Apoc books have the same issue. Do I have a better idea that'll work for GW, and FW? Not really. It's just annoying.
That's the big problem with FW books, they are so far behind and often are outdated faster then they release them, if anything FW should just have pay for PDFs on their website or something, because their book format is way to far behind. Make Campaign books with scenarios and special gear, but the rest can easily be on the website.
War Zones are self-contained supplements for Warhammer 40,000: Apocalypse and they detail some of the most famous campaigns of the 41st Millennium. This section provides you with the necessary formations you need to relive these epic moments.
I'm getting a malicious something or other warning off of a png file at that link with Avast virus protection. Just an FYI warning...
Thanks.
I'll see if I can clear that up.
also is it possible to re-enable the ability to make 'guest' posts like you used to be able to do, now you seem to have to sign up to a Discus (spelling) to do so and I really don't want to (just too many random accounts already)
also is it possible to re-enable the ability to make 'guest' posts like you used to be able to do, now you seem to have to sign up to a Discus (spelling) to do so and I really don't want to (just too many random accounts already)
Don't think it is disabled. I just tested it, and the guest-comment function seems to work fine..
I did some playtesting with the Khorne Mower on vassal. There is no way it is worth 888+ points. For the same price, you can get 5 Soulgrinders with the Mark of Nurgle (shroud). The grinders will rip that thing apart in assault.
With the stats it has, I would pay no more than 600 points. It's overcosted like most super heavies. There are a few diamonds in the rough, but the Khorne mower isn't one of them even when supported with the Grimoire.
dlight wrote: I did some playtesting with the Khorne Mower on vassal. There is no way it is worth 888+ points. For the same price, you can get 5 Soulgrinders with the Mark of Nurgle (shroud). The grinders will rip that thing apart in assault.
With the stats it has, I would pay no more than 600 points. It's overcosted like most super heavies. There are a few diamonds in the rough, but the Khorne mower isn't one of them even when supported with the Grimoire.
Interesting that people are testing it out on vassal already, but I assume that's using current apoc rules and not the rumoured new ones where its D weapon CC attacks are even better and it's immune to stunned/shaken/immobilised/weapon destroyed. At least according to this: http://apocalypse40k.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/apocalypse-q-part-i.html
I'm sure I've seen that chap posting on here before so all credit to him etc etc.
Yeah but if HP on Super-Heavies function like regular HP's (and there's no reason to assume they don't), then these things are just as fragile if not moreso than they were before (9 glances and dead!). They're worth around the 350-450 mark, not 500+.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Yeah but if HP on Super-Heavies function like regular HP's (and there's no reason to assume they don't), then these things are just as fragile if not moreso than they were before (9 glances and dead!). They're worth around the 350-450 mark, not 500+.
Yeah, Structure points should be immune to glances. And only D weapons should be able to 'instant-death' a super heavy.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Yeah but if HP on Super-Heavies function like regular HP's (and there's no reason to assume they don't), then these things are just as fragile if not moreso than they were before (9 glances and dead!). They're worth around the 350-450 mark, not 500+.
Yeah I'll concede that point, I come at it from a warped perspective as the only superheavy I've regularly played with is 700 points for 18HP's. Though even with that fragility in mind my group still has superheavy phobia and severely limits what we can bring to a game.
And that's the other thing. As I've said before, people have an irrational fear of Super Heavies, so much so that they concentrate on them so that their already fragile nature is magnified even further.
I think the problem is that people don't bring enough super heavies to a fight. If you play an Apocalypse game with only one Baneblade, then of course the Baneblade will dominate and will seem overpowered in comparison to codex units (and, in my opinion, the Baneblade is one of the least scary super heavies). But if you've got enough super heavies to be slinging the 7" and 10" pie plates around, or to start popping other super heavies with the D weapons, then that's where the fun begins. The more super heavies you've got in the game, the less scary they become.
Anyway, maybe they've done something to balance out how easy it might be to glance a super heavy to death. Maybe a 4+ save against glancing hits?
Hmmm, those rules are kinda interesting. I like them! I like how they ignore shaken/stunned and all that. D weps seem kinda strong, but I only have 1 Str D wep currently, and thats the CCW wep on my stompa so It wont come into play as much. Id like to see some kind of save against glances for SHV. If a 6 makes you lose D3 hull points, super heavys are going to be blowing up left and right now, unless they ignore +1/2 to the armor pen tables from ap 1 and such.
The problem with superheavies is that things like fire dragons exist. Its no big deal in standard 40k, where each turn that squad can at best only destroy a single vehicle of roughly equivalent points... but in apoc, that say... 180 point unit of firedragons is easily able to destroy a 800 pt superheavy in one go.
Orktavius wrote: and if you let that squad of fire dragons get close unmolested it's your own fault for losing the super heavy Same as any other game of 40k
Two words: Flank March.
Although interceptor alleviates some of that worry.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Yeah but if HP on Super-Heavies function like regular HP's (and there's no reason to assume they don't), then these things are just as fragile if not moreso than they were before (9 glances and dead!). They're worth around the 350-450 mark, not 500+.
Yeah I'll concede that point, I come at it from a warped perspective as the only superheavy I've regularly played with is 700 points for 18HP's. Though even with that fragility in mind my group still has superheavy phobia and severely limits what we can bring to a game.
That is the Nurgle Plague Tower. It is one of the few super heavies that are worth it. Especially with an L3 Herald of Tzeentch inside using divination.
Khorne mower = not worth it. It is an awesome looking model, but there are far better ways to spend those points. Even if it is immune to shaken, stun, immobile, and weapon destroyed.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Yeah but if HP on Super-Heavies function like regular HP's (and there's no reason to assume they don't), then these things are just as fragile if not moreso than they were before (9 glances and dead!). They're worth around the 350-450 mark, not 500+.
Yeah I'll concede that point, I come at it from a warped perspective as the only superheavy I've regularly played with is 700 points for 18HP's. Though even with that fragility in mind my group still has superheavy phobia and severely limits what we can bring to a game.
That is the Nurgle Plague Tower. It is one of the few super heavies that are worth it. Especially with an L3 Herald of Tzeentch inside using divination.
Khorne mower = not worth it. It is an awesome looking model, but there are far better ways to spend those points. Even if it is immune to shaken, stun, immobile, and weapon destroyed.
The problem I've had since the 6th update is how easy it is to stun and shake passengers in superheavies with the amount of fire they tend to attract, used to use the 10 fire points on the tower to make it a bit of a gunboat, then again if these rumours of stun and shake immunity pan out then it will indeed be one of the good ones again, assuming everyone is happy with using older datasheets in new apoc. Not had an apoc game since the daemons update, sounds horrid but I tend to stuff it with nurgle marked units that don't get hurt if it pops.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Yeah but if HP on Super-Heavies function like regular HP's (and there's no reason to assume they don't), then these things are just as fragile if not moreso than they were before (9 glances and dead!). They're worth around the 350-450 mark, not 500+.
Yeah I'll concede that point, I come at it from a warped perspective as the only superheavy I've regularly played with is 700 points for 18HP's. Though even with that fragility in mind my group still has superheavy phobia and severely limits what we can bring to a game.
That is the Nurgle Plague Tower. It is one of the few super heavies that are worth it. Especially with an L3 Herald of Tzeentch inside using divination.
Khorne mower = not worth it. It is an awesome looking model, but there are far better ways to spend those points. Even if it is immune to shaken, stun, immobile, and weapon destroyed.
The problem I've had since the 6th update is how easy it is to stun and shake passengers in superheavies with the amount of fire they tend to attract, used to use the 10 fire points on the tower to make it a bit of a gunboat, then again if these rumours of stun and shake immunity pan out then it will indeed be one of the good ones again, assuming everyone is happy with using older datasheets in new apoc. Not had an apoc game since the daemons update, sounds horrid but I tend to stuff it with nurgle marked units that don't get hurt if it pops.
Whenever I run it (I have a custom built one), I fill it with the following:
Typhus
20 Plague Marines
L3 Chaos Sorcerer (telepathy)
3 Nurgle Obliterators
l3 Herald of Tzeentch (divination)
I believe the above loadout is optimal. However, points permitting, you could drop 1 Obliterator for another L3 Chaos Sorcerer & L3 Tzeentch Herald.
Tannhauser42 wrote: I think the problem is that people don't bring enough super heavies to a fight. If you play an Apocalypse game with only one Baneblade, then of course the Baneblade will dominate and will seem overpowered in comparison to codex units (and, in my opinion, the Baneblade is one of the least scary super heavies).
In all the games I've played, this has never been the case. Baneblades were always far too fragile for their points, and ridiculously easy to kill. More often than not, if I lost first turn, I never got to use mine at all, because it evaporated in the first shooting phase. If not that, then someone would bring down Terminators or Fire Dragons nearby and reduce it to ash.
Really not impressed with these rules so far. New D-weapons are stupidly overpowered against smaller stuff (use deep strike melta to kill superheavies and D-weapons to wipe models off the table by the handful), lots of random tables in a game type that already has way too much tedious dice rolling, formations based on how the models are positioned that will produce endless arguing about whether the tank squadron is in a perfect line or not, etc.
Regarding the Deep Strike wiping, how is that different from old Str D though?
At any rate, at least Str D is now good at killing Gargantuan Creatures as well. The old rules created a massive disparity between firing Str D at a Superheavy Vehicle compared to firing at a Gargantuan Creature.
I'm pretty happy so far. Some of these new rules sound like a lot of fun. Str D worries the heck out me. It was super good before but now it's basically a vortex. Losing ID is great for nids but tank formations are going to die a horrible death, especially if the Shadowsword Str D turret is unchanged. Also, the new C'tan thing appears to get an Str D hellstorm, so depending on its stats and the gargantuan creature rules, that could be ridiculous (Plus the model is TINY). Here's hoping that a lot of Str D blast weapons are severely toned down in range and size. Titans didn't particularly need to be stronger...
We'll see. If it makes large games a little more playable, then I'm all for that. If house rules still need to be made then that's fine too, no changes there. Either way, it'll be interesting to see.
Tannhauser42 wrote: I think the problem is that people don't bring enough super heavies to a fight. If you play an Apocalypse game with only one Baneblade, then of course the Baneblade will dominate and will seem overpowered in comparison to codex units (and, in my opinion, the Baneblade is one of the least scary super heavies).
In all the games I've played, this has never been the case. Baneblades were always far too fragile for their points, and ridiculously easy to kill. More often than not, if I lost first turn, I never got to use mine at all, because it evaporated in the first shooting phase. If not that, then someone would bring down Terminators or Fire Dragons nearby and reduce it to ash.
I never understood why anyone would not put their SHVs in reserve for Apoc games. Keeps them able to roll on and fire at full effectiveness for at least one turn, without being smashed off the table before you even get to use it.
Tannhauser42 wrote: I think the problem is that people don't bring enough super heavies to a fight. If you play an Apocalypse game with only one Baneblade, then of course the Baneblade will dominate and will seem overpowered in comparison to codex units (and, in my opinion, the Baneblade is one of the least scary super heavies).
In all the games I've played, this has never been the case. Baneblades were always far too fragile for their points, and ridiculously easy to kill. More often than not, if I lost first turn, I never got to use mine at all, because it evaporated in the first shooting phase. If not that, then someone would bring down Terminators or Fire Dragons nearby and reduce it to ash.
I never understood why anyone would not put their SHVs in reserve for Apoc games. Keeps them able to roll on and fire at full effectiveness for at least one turn, without being smashed off the table before you even get to use it.
Tank based superheavies are usually longer than 6", if they come onto the board edge they have to follow the rules on p124, as they've moved more than 6" which is their maximum move they are unable to shoot the turn they come on if you keep them in reserve which is why people don't tend to keep baneblades etc in reserve at least. Walkers and faster superheavies though are definitely best kept off of the board for the most part.
Lieutenant wrote:
An online friend who owns a shop received the new stuff yesterday, he says crew shaken, stunned, weapon destroyed and immobilised are ignored by super-heavies, and an explode result only reduces D3 hull points. Gargantuant creatures all have feel no pain now too.
Engrimm wrote:Eldar Phantom Titan is in the book, holo fields changed again: Before making an armour penetration roll or rolling on the Destroyer damage table (yes there's a table to roll on for destroyer weapons, good news for some bad for others)
You roll a D6, if the titan moved the weapon will hit on a 4+ and proceed to armour penetration, if it didnt move it's on a 3+. Points cost the same, other different thing is the aa launcher which is now a S7 AP3 heavy 4, skyfire, interceptor. 24HP, same as before.
Great Company: stubborn for all.
All models in the formation re-roll their charge moves and re-roll to hit rolls on overwatch.
x1 per game start of assault phase all within 18" of the wolf lord/Ragnar gain furious charge and fleet.
No points for titan weapons, same as before, no limit on D weapons, guess this is left up to the players.
5 runepristes is the same as 5 libarians, called Librarius: They're a psychic choir formation (see the blog post from Loken for more info) and get a choir power. Warp charge 4, 24", S, Ap1, Heavy 1, large blast, Vortex. Vortex doesnt destroy everything like it used to, it's a normal D weapon but the blast stays on the table and scatters 2D6 each turn, on a double it disappears. In the case of this power though when it dispappears the game will start using the Seismic explosion rules as the vortex buries itself into the plant's surface.
Then there's Brethren of the Great wolf, which contains logan, njal, ulrik, arjac, bjorn and 1 wolf guard pack. It's a high command formation, wolf guard needs to have the banner of the great wolf which within 24" all have Furios charge. Formation has fear and all space wolves on the table have stubborn. Then all characters in the formation can all do the finest hour/sons of primarch buff not just one, but all at the same turn so it's a mega strong unit for that turn.
Wolfpack flanking force, wolflord on wolf/canis wolfborn, 2+ thunderwolf units, 5+ fenrisian wolve packs. Acute senses, hit and run, outflank, rage and can charge in the turn they arrive from reserves.
Can you tell us more about the Lord Castellan's Supreme Command.
Formations of conventional marines are available for other marine codexes?
Yes they are available for the others although some like the scout company wouldnt be available for the grey knights obviously.
Lord castellan creed includes him, kell, a company command squad and an Imperial bastion. When his unit is in the bastion he can issue orders to units anywhere on the table. The master of ordnance can make D3+1 artillery bombardments instead of 1. The formation is a high command formation, so you receive 1 extra strategic asset normally in the break, in Creed's case though you receive 2 assets.
Lord of the Black Crusade is Abaddon and Kharn, Ahriman, Lucius, Typhus or lords with mark of khorne instead of Kharn etc. High Command Formation. They can all use the finest hour/sons of primarch at the same turn.
The planet killer: once per game you can have Abaddon's flagship start bombarding so from now on you start using the Magma Storm Unnatural Disaster table. You are the master of disaster as long as abaddon is alive. Basically there's a table you roll on and it affects everybody, but if you're the master of disaster you're the one that begins applying the results. so if you get a result to do D3 blasts and you roll a 3, the master of disaster places the 1st one, then your opponent, then the master, so yoou have that advantage when you roll an odd number.
Legionnaire Warband: When in close cobat with any loyal space marine they re-roll to hit every round of combat. And if they're within 12" of loyal space marines they get fearless. That's the only rule.
Lost and the Damned: 1 Dark Apostle, 6+ chaos cultist units. Gain inflitrate. After each break you can return a single unit of cultists. All cultists in the formation have feel no pain and furious charge.
Black templars have 2 formations in Warzone armageddon, one's for land raider crusaders and the other for a company style.
Dark Eldar formations are incredibly great in my opinion. There's 5 of them. I'll detail two of them:
Ravager Titan Hunters: Armoured spearhead formation. Any ravager within 6" of the command vehicle (including the command vehicle) gets shrouded. The command vehicle has a shadow ray weapon in addition to the normal stuff. You shoot it before you shoot the rest of the dark lances. If it hits then any subsequesnt hits by any ravager in the formation will ignore the effect of Void shield, power fields AND eldar titan holo-fields. Range for the shadow ray is 36".
Dark Olympiad. 1 succubus or lelith, 0+ hekatrix bloodbrides, 2+ wyches units, 1+ hellions, 0+ beastmasters, 1+ reavers. The beastmasters and the beast gain the efffects of combat drugs. With this formation you roll twice on the combat drugs table and apply BOTH. if you have duke sliscus you roll 3 dice and choose 2. Whenever anything from this formation gets a pain token you can give a free extra pain token to anything within 24".
And what exactly do a Sons of Grimaldus formation?
This is the company style formation I mentioned. They all get feel no pain, all dword brethren gain fearless and hatred(orks). When charging any unit from codexrks they gain furious charge. This formation is from Warzone :Armageddon so that's why it's themed against the orcs.
Allies: all armies on the same side are treated as Allies. Armies from the same codex but commanded by different players are considered battlebrothers. Armies that according to the allies matrix ally are "come the apocalypse" count each other as desperate allies. It doesnt say that you HAVE to use the allies matrix in fact it says "alternatively" for when you cant decide which players are put in which team.
Thunderhawk costs 215 points less, but to get the turbo laser it's 90 points. AV is 12 12 10 (-2 from the rear) and Hull points is 9 only (would have been 12 normally). Has power of the machine spirit.
Tigershark isnt in the book, as you said it's just been updated in IA3-2nd so there's no units in the book other than formations for Tau.
The riptide wing contains 3+ riptides. Any riptide that shoots on a unit that another riptide has already shot at gets +1BS. Each Riptide within 6" of another riptide can re-roll Nova reactor tests.
Hierophant is 250 points cheaper. Bio-cannon is assault 6, and he also has a 6+ inv save.
here's some formations
vanguard infestation: 3+ genestealer broods, 3+ lictors (can be deathleaper). On the turn they arrive from reserve all enemy units within 36" use their lowest LD. All unit are deployed like the lictor's Chameleonic skin, even the genestealers
Living fortress: 2 hive tyrants (can be swarmlord), 3 tyrant guard, 3 hive guard. Feel no pain for all. Any tyranids within synapse range of a hive tyrant from this formation has the preferred enemy and counter attack rules.
If they're attacked by a shooting attack they can form a Fortress of Chitin. They get shrouded and add +! to there armour saves but the formation moves as if iin difficult terrain next turn. Btw this is a hig command formation, so extra asset
Biggy: No force organization chart, in fact something which I forgot to mention, ALL units are scoring, even HQ everything.
What is the book's definition of a "break"?
Exactly as it sounds, it's a lunch break etc, in their example there were 2 breaks, so scoring is done 1 startegic victory point per objective 1st break, 2 points for the 2nd break, and 3 points at the end.
Found it a bit weird that they're using these "breaks", me and my regular opponent dont really have breaks, so we're going to try out putting the "break" at the end of turn 2 and turn 4 with the game finishing on turn 5 or 6.
Tannhauser42 wrote: I think the problem is that people don't bring enough super heavies to a fight. If you play an Apocalypse game with only one Baneblade, then of course the Baneblade will dominate and will seem overpowered in comparison to codex units (and, in my opinion, the Baneblade is one of the least scary super heavies).
In all the games I've played, this has never been the case. Baneblades were always far too fragile for their points, and ridiculously easy to kill. More often than not, if I lost first turn, I never got to use mine at all, because it evaporated in the first shooting phase. If not that, then someone would bring down Terminators or Fire Dragons nearby and reduce it to ash.
I never understood why anyone would not put their SHVs in reserve for Apoc games. Keeps them able to roll on and fire at full effectiveness for at least one turn, without being smashed off the table before you even get to use it.
Tank based superheavies are usually longer than 6", if they come onto the board edge they have to follow the rules on p124, as they've moved more than 6" which is their maximum move they are unable to shoot the turn they come on if you keep them in reserve which is why people don't tend to keep baneblades etc in reserve at least. Walkers and faster superheavies though are definitely best kept off of the board for the most part.
Well that is just stupid. Handicapping a vehicle like that just because it is longer than 6" is just dumb. Should be able to place a big tank on the board at the board edge and count as a regular move.
High Commands: Models in this are treated as 1 unit, examples of this is the phoenix court of khaine where you have the avatar and the 6 phoenix lords in 1 unit, or masters of the chapter where you can have 1 chapter master, 0-1 honour guard, 4-10 captain all in 1 unit (and they cant leave even if they're independent characters). Once per game you also can get another strategic asset per high command. They can also order an all-out attack, which makes a single unit triple it's movement but cannot shoot or tun, but can assault.
"Hello, this is An'ggrath the Unbound. Watch him move 72" and assault in one turn. Blood for the Blood God."
EDIT: Two formations for Templars and one is wasted on turning Crusaders into ghetto-Death Company? Meh
High Commands: Models in this are treated as 1 unit, examples of this is the phoenix court of khaine where you have the avatar and the 6 phoenix lords in 1 unit, or masters of the chapter where you can have 1 chapter master, 0-1 honour guard, 4-10 captain all in 1 unit (and they cant leave even if they're independent characters). Once per game you also can get another strategic asset per high command. They can also order an all-out attack, which makes a single unit triple it's movement but cannot shoot or tun, but can assault.
"Hello, this is An'ggrath the Unbound. Watch him move 72" and assault in one turn. Blood for the Blood God."
That's so wrong.
So would the old-style formations be invalidated? I had a vortex missile launcher I made out of a Saturn V kit and a Death Strike Missile Launcher Kit. I'd be very sad if it was no longer a vortex missile launcher.
High Commands: Models in this are treated as 1 unit, examples of this is the phoenix court of khaine where you have the avatar and the 6 phoenix lords in 1 unit, or masters of the chapter where you can have 1 chapter master, 0-1 honour guard, 4-10 captain all in 1 unit (and they cant leave even if they're independent characters). Once per game you also can get another strategic asset per high command. They can also order an all-out attack, which makes a single unit triple it's movement but cannot shoot or tun, but can assault.
"Hello, this is An'ggrath the Unbound. Watch him move 72" and assault in one turn. Blood for the Blood God."
That's so wrong.
So would the old-style formations be invalidated? I had a vortex missile launcher I made out of a Saturn V kit and a Death Strike Missile Launcher Kit. I'd be very sad if it was no longer a vortex missile launcher.
I would not be surprised if they were all invalidated. Some probably will not, but some may be. With Games-Workshop's business strategy of "MAKE EVERYTHING COST MORE" it is entirely likely that they'd make you buy a whole bunch of new stuff because they can.
AlmightyWalrus wrote: House rule old stuff in. Apocalypse isn't supposed to be played without house rules anyway.
This. There is a reason I don't show up to random Apoc games. I'd rather plan something out with friends, make house rules to make it go smooth, and then beat the heck out of each other using lots of cool painted toys
AlmightyWalrus wrote: House rule old stuff in. Apocalypse isn't supposed to be played without house rules anyway.
We dont know that that is still true. Everything I have read seems to indicate that the "organized chaos" of the previous Apoc design concept has been thrown out the window in favor of something more structured.
The Special rule is" the Amount of cheese is too damn High!!", When a player aligne 3 Wraithknights, its adversaries have the right and the duty to smack him in the jimmies with the said models, each ennemy player can have 2D6 smacks, not more.
AlmightyWalrus wrote: House rule old stuff in. Apocalypse isn't supposed to be played without house rules anyway.
This. There is a reason I don't show up to random Apoc games. I'd rather plan something out with friends, make house rules to make it go smooth, and then beat the heck out of each other using lots of cool painted toys
I also don't understand why people play Apoc in a non-structured sense. I've never seen a pickup game that wasn't like trying to swallow glass.
These rules don't see a lot that I want to incorporate but I'll reserve judgement for when I read the full text.
Oh, laugh it up now. But one day, it will be our turn*...
* The above statement is, in all likelihood, false; the desperate, ailing hope of all Sisters players. It's likely the only reason SoB haven't been Squatted is the design studio can't think of a way to get a 'Nid Hive Fleet onto Holy Terra.
Oh, laugh it up now. But one day, it will be our turn*...
* The above statement is, in all likelihood, false; the desperate, ailing hope of all Sisters players. It's likely the only reason SoB haven't been Squatted is the design studio can't think of a way to get a 'Nid Hive Fleet onto Holy Terra.
Actually, they're just waiting for the next Grey Knight's codex to be released to write in that all the Sisters of Battle walked into a giant rendering vat so they could produce holy grease for the joints of the Grey Knights armor. You know it's coming...
Oh, laugh it up now. But one day, it will be our turn*...
* The above statement is, in all likelihood, false; the desperate, ailing hope of all Sisters players. It's likely the only reason SoB haven't been Squatted is the design studio can't think of a way to get a 'Nid Hive Fleet onto Holy Terra.
Actually, they're just waiting for the next Grey Knight's codex to be released to write in that all the Sisters of Battle walked into a giant rendering vat so they could produce holy grease for the joints of the Grey Knights armor. You know it's coming...
Don't give them ideas!
I assume, though, that this means there aren't any Apocalypse Formations for Sisters of Battle in the new edition. Doubly irksome, since even the 6th Ed BRB recognises they were present at Armageddon...
off 
rks they gain furious charge. This formation is from Warzone :Armageddon so that's why it's themed against the orcs.
