One thing I'd love to see in Fallout 4 is Companions' skills actually serving a useful purpose like in Knights of the Old Republic. If characters in your Party had useful skills, such as Security, Computer Use, Repair and Demolitions, you could direct them to perform a task that depended on those skills (unlocking a door, defusing a mine, hacking a terminal, repairing a droid).
Compare that to Skyrim or Fallout, where if you the Player Character don't personally possess the required skill, you don't get to do it period. Never mind that your Companion is a skilled mechanic (Raul and Veronica) or a Robot (EDE, Mister Handsy/Gutsy). Only YOU can hack terminals, pick locks etc.
I'm playing a cowgirl/desert ranger type character in Fallout New Vegas, focusing on stealth and long ranged weapons (scoped Hunting Rifle is awesome). But I always feel forced to invest in skills that don't fit the premise, like Repair and Science.
NCR Doctor: We're dealing with a lot of people around here with PTSD.
Courier:
A) I don't know jack about medicine, but here's some books on the subject.
B) Oh hey I know all about that gak!
C) Oi Arcade you're a Doctor right? Aye you go help this guy.
Which is actually a thing in one of the quests, along with the one at Forlorn Hope where you need to act as a Doctor too. Sure they're limited to specific quests, but having companions with you does have an impact at times where the player is lacking in certain skills. Rather than having companions do everything for you though a simple buff to one of your skills while they're with you would probably do.
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: One thing I'd love to see in Fallout 4 is Companions' skills actually serving a useful purpose like in Knights of the Old Republic. If characters in your Party had useful skills, such as Security, Computer Use, Repair and Demolitions, you could direct them to perform a task that depended on those skills (unlocking a door, defusing a mine, hacking a terminal, repairing a droid).
Compare that to Skyrim or Fallout, where if you the Player Character don't personally possess the required skill, you don't get to do it period. Never mind that your Companion is a skilled mechanic (Raul and Veronica) or a Robot (EDE, Mister Handsy/Gutsy). Only YOU can hack terminals, pick locks etc.
I'm playing a cowgirl/desert ranger type character in Fallout New Vegas, focusing on stealth and long ranged weapons (scoped Hunting Rifle is awesome). But I always feel forced to invest in skills that don't fit the premise, like Repair and Science.
Skyrim kind of did that, at least with locks. You could tell a companion to activate something, if it was a chest, theyd unlock it. Doors were bugged though, iiirc....
Doesn't giving a companion a skill kind of diminish your use out of it. Like why invest in the lockpick skill when you can just get a lockpick buddy. I tended to like NV's take on it where the skills where complementarity rather then replicated. They gave you new things rather then overlapping your things.
nomotog wrote: Doesn't giving a companion a skill kind of diminish your use out of it. Like why invest in the lockpick skill when you can just get a lockpick buddy. I tended to like NV's take on it where the skills where complementarity rather then replicated. They gave you new things rather then overlapping your things.
Possibly. But it also means your hulking death machine in power armour armed with the biggest hammer anyone has ever seen doesn't suddenly turn into to this nimble fingered locksmith who can open a safe with a single bobby pin every time they want to loot something
nomotog wrote: Doesn't giving a companion a skill kind of diminish your use out of it. Like why invest in the lockpick skill when you can just get a lockpick buddy. I tended to like NV's take on it where the skills where complementarity rather then replicated. They gave you new things rather then overlapping your things.
This is why, in a tabletop RPG, the PC party is meant to be from different classes. Just because a Fighter can take the Heal skill, it's so much more efficient to have an actual Cleric.
In fact, that's the whole point of a "locksmith buddy", to fill in the spots where you don't have the skills. Of course, there are mods that allow you to use demolitions and such on doors and lockers and the like, allowing your hulking death-machine soldier to employ his/her combat skills over the rogue skills and still progress... but the game does not, by default, permit that.
nomotog wrote: Doesn't giving a companion a skill kind of diminish your use out of it. Like why invest in the lockpick skill when you can just get a lockpick buddy. I tended to like NV's take on it where the skills where complementarity rather then replicated. They gave you new things rather then overlapping your things.
Possibly. But it also means your hulking death machine in power armour armed with the biggest hammer anyone has ever seen doesn't suddenly turn into to this nimble fingered locksmith who can open a safe with a single bobby pin every time they want to loot something
Psienesis wrote:
nomotog wrote: Doesn't giving a companion a skill kind of diminish your use out of it. Like why invest in the lockpick skill when you can just get a lockpick buddy. I tended to like NV's take on it where the skills where complementarity rather then replicated. They gave you new things rather then overlapping your things.
This is why, in a tabletop RPG, the PC party is meant to be from different classes. Just because a Fighter can take the Heal skill, it's so much more efficient to have an actual Cleric.
In fact, that's the whole point of a "locksmith buddy", to fill in the spots where you don't have the skills. Of course, there are mods that allow you to use demolitions and such on doors and lockers and the like, allowing your hulking death-machine soldier to employ his/her combat skills over the rogue skills and still progress... but the game does not, by default, permit that.
The hulking death machine isn't meant to unlock a safe*. That is the thing with fallout. You get to pick a few and that is what you can do. Everything else, your meant to miss. It's not like skyrim, pillars of eternity, or D&D** where your meant to be able to do everything.
* (I did like the gernade locking mods though. I wonder of they will be a thing in fallout 4. Full on destruction maybe? Fingers crossed.)
**(Fallout the table top game. I keep meaning to play that. Well actually I keep meaning to play the MLP/Fallout table top game. Just never get around to it.)
Given that games far back as Morrowind had the lock bash functionality modded in, I wonder if Bethesda will include it this time? Though the issue that I had with the newer versions of it was that they have a chance of destroying the contents, including quest items. That and I remember in Fallout 3 setting off a mini-nuke next to a safe and the thing still wouldn't open (having the lock degrade with each hit would have been useful, though also the amount of explosives/strength applied would make damaging items more likely. So your tough character would need to maybe not hit the lunchbox with a super sledge and instead just kick it, or invest points in the agility stat to counter their high strength).
nomotog wrote: The hulking death machine isn't meant to unlock a safe*. That is the thing with fallout. You get to pick a few and that is what you can do. Everything else, your meant to miss.
But that is stupid. It is the same mindset that ruined the ending of Fallout 3 before Broken Steel fixed it. If we have a friend with particular skills and no reason not to help us out, we should be able to take advantage of their help. There can certainly be limitations - a Brotherhood scribe will probably refuse to help you hack into a Brotherhood computer network - but there should be a sensible reason for it.
Wyrmalla wrote: Given that games far back as Morrowind had the lock bash functionality modded in, I wonder if Bethesda will include it this time? Though the issue that I had with the newer versions of it was that they have a chance of destroying the contents, including quest items. That and I remember in Fallout 3 setting off a mini-nuke next to a safe and the thing still wouldn't open (having the lock degrade with each hit would have been useful, though also the amount of explosives/strength applied would make damaging items more likely. So your tough character would need to maybe not hit the lunchbox with a super sledge and instead just kick it, or invest points in the agility stat to counter their high strength).
Bashing a lock to break it open at the risk of damaging the contents was a feature in KOTOR too.
And DayZ has it so that if you don't open a tin can with a can opener you automatically spill out a third of the contents. ...The can openers in my house are terrible. I need to take a knife to the things most of the time to open them. Like hell have I ever spilled a load of the stuff everywhere just because I wasn't using a tin opener (heh, and that's what ring pulls are for anyway).
Wyrmalla wrote: Given that games far back as Morrowind had the lock bash functionality modded in, I wonder if Bethesda will include it this time? Though the issue that I had with the newer versions of it was that they have a chance of destroying the contents, including quest items. That and I remember in Fallout 3 setting off a mini-nuke next to a safe and the thing still wouldn't open (having the lock degrade with each hit would have been useful, though also the amount of explosives/strength applied would make damaging items more likely. So your tough character would need to maybe not hit the lunchbox with a super sledge and instead just kick it, or invest points in the agility stat to counter their high strength).
Bashing a lock to break it open at the risk of damaging the contents was a feature in KOTOR too.
Only in the second one. In the first it was Security skill (or Computer Use for some things) or not allowed in.
Bashing use to be a common thing. I don't know why it went away. Maybe because losing loot feels bad. Like if I lost loot for opening a box with a grenade, I might just not want to open it under the idea that I'll just do it latter. You never do do it latter of coarse. You could just have grenades open things without damaging things and have the noise and general value of bombs to balance it out.
nomotog wrote: The hulking death machine isn't meant to unlock a safe*. That is the thing with fallout. You get to pick a few and that is what you can do. Everything else, your meant to miss.
But that is stupid. It is the same mindset that ruined the ending of Fallout 3 before Broken Steel fixed it. If we have a friend with particular skills and no reason not to help us out, we should be able to take advantage of their help. There can certainly be limitations - a Brotherhood scribe will probably refuse to help you hack into a Brotherhood computer network - but there should be a sensible reason for it.
I like using companion's skills, but I would rather the skills they have be complementarity to the players skills rather then replacements. Kind of like how NV did it. Something like a scrib being able to hack robots not terminals. It's a new ability rather then a replacement because you can't normally hack robots just terminals.
nomotog wrote: Bashing use to be a common thing. I don't know why it went away. Maybe because losing loot feels bad. Like if I lost loot for opening a box with a grenade, I might just not want to open it under the idea that I'll just do it latter. You never do do it latter of coarse. You could just have grenades open things without damaging things and have the noise and general value of bombs to balance it out.
nomotog wrote: The hulking death machine isn't meant to unlock a safe*. That is the thing with fallout. You get to pick a few and that is what you can do. Everything else, your meant to miss.
But that is stupid. It is the same mindset that ruined the ending of Fallout 3 before Broken Steel fixed it. If we have a friend with particular skills and no reason not to help us out, we should be able to take advantage of their help. There can certainly be limitations - a Brotherhood scribe will probably refuse to help you hack into a Brotherhood computer network - but there should be a sensible reason for it.
I like using companion's skills, but I would rather the skills they have be complementarity to the players skills rather then replacements. Kind of like how NV did it. Something like a scrib being able to hack robots not terminals. It's a new ability rather then a replacement because you can't normally hack robots just terminals.
I tend to never revisit previously explored locations. Exploration for me is like ticking off a check list.
It'd nice if certain previously explored locations became re-infested/repopulated after you've cleared them, to give you a reason to revisit.
Cleared a Vault? A gang of Raiders have moved in and began using it for a base to raid trading caravens. Exterminate them, and claim the bounty on their leader's head.
Cleared a ruined village/neighborhood of critters and ghouls? Families of wasteland settlers have moved in and made it their home. Revisit the place to trade with them, or kill them all and loot their gak.
Skyrim did this, though it was really just a case of resetting the location and triggering the respawn of the original npc types. No back story to why the place is being repopulated.
Wyrmalla wrote: NCR Doctor: We're dealing with a lot of people around here with PTSD.
Courier:
A) I don't know jack about medicine, but here's some books on the subject.
B) Oh hey I know all about that gak!
C) Oi Arcade you're a Doctor right? Aye you go help this guy.
Which is actually a thing in one of the quests, along with the one at Forlorn Hope where you need to act as a Doctor too. Sure they're limited to specific quests, but having companions with you does have an impact at times where the player is lacking in certain skills. Rather than having companions do everything for you though a simple buff to one of your skills while they're with you would probably do.
I feel then followers should have a bit more permanency, i.e. you can't just drop them off at some area, grab another companion, and come back. Or another companion slot tweak, (combat, pet, non-combat). All still fight, obviously, but a non combat isn't as good as a combat in combat, and a combat doesn't have very many utility skills.
Skyrim has cells repopulate with different enemies every now and them. For instance Helgen had bandits appear after a couple of days. If you clear out fortresses then every now and then they will have Imperials/ Stormcloaks show up and garrison them. Given that Skyrim had this to an extent I imagine that Fallout 4 will do the same occasionally.
If you're talking about enemies just respawning though in most of the games they'll do this within 48 hours (as that's when the cell buffers are cleared for performance). Skyrim did have it so that if you kill every enemy in a location this time is extended though. There's also mods that allow you to set it so if you clear a location enemies never respawn, just in case you then want to say make that place your home at some point. Logically yes people would eventually come along and resettle someplace. ...If the player keeps coming along and murdering everyone I'd expect that they'd get the message eventually, think the place was cursed and never come back. =P
I like using companion's skills, but I would rather the skills they have be complementarity to the players skills rather then replacements. Kind of like how NV did it. Something like a scrib being able to hack robots not terminals. It's a new ability rather then a replacement because you can't normally hack robots just terminals.
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: I tend to never revisit previously explored locations. Exploration for me is like ticking off a check list.
It'd nice if certain previously explored locations became re-infested/repopulated after you've cleared them, to give you a reason to revisit.
Cleared a Vault? A gang of Raiders have moved in and began using it for a base to raid trading caravens. Exterminate them, and claim the bounty on their leader's head.
Cleared a ruined village/neighborhood of critters and ghouls? Families of wasteland settlers have moved in and made it their home. Revisit the place to trade with them, or kill them all and loot their gak.
That's a good idea. You wouldn't want to do it all the time, but having more cases where there are two or more mutually exclusive encounter tables for the same location and a trigger that can cause the location to change hands would add a bit of variety. Even if it's just two different bands of raiders with some sort of distinctive trait - one that uses attack dogs and one that uses flamethrowers, or whatever - watching the push-and-pull of the two bands gaining and losing territory could be interesting.
I wonder if the aliens make a comeback in F4, i'll have to import the english one , Japanese version has no english, my Japanese is good enough for non RPG games, but not story heavy exposition games :(
Also, my brother pre-ordered the Pip-Boy edition and will after many years of ridicule, finally get a smartphone, just because he needs one to get the most out of that thing!
Jehan-reznor wrote: I wonder if the aliens make a comeback in F4, i'll have to import the english one , Japanese version has no english, my Japanese is good enough for non RPG games, but not story heavy exposition games :(
There's a lot of concept art for aliens. There's an astronaut suit in the concept art too, with an in game model shown as well, and what looks to be spaceships feature in the concept art. So yeah, there might be just a random encounter, but they're in there somewhere.
Or in other words: the graphics need to be dialed back because consoles can't handle them.
Considering what consoles can handle and what Fallout 4 looks like, I'm gonna take Pete's word for it. But my computer is old, so that creates some bias.
Still, I wonder why they're not optimizing as much as other studios. Back when Oblivion was announced it was made into one of the best looking games of it's time.
Or in other words: the graphics need to be dialed back because consoles can't handle them.
Good. The graphics we have seen are more than good enough for my purposes. At this point I'd much rather have double the draw distance than double the resolution on the textures.
Or in other words: the graphics need to be dialed back because consoles can't handle them.
Good. The graphics we have seen are more than good enough for my purposes. At this point I'd much rather have double the draw distance than double the resolution on the textures.
Exactly.
Been playing Fallout Shelter on my wife's school ipad. Decent game but we've made 3 vaults between us and all have failed due to raiders and radroaches. Enemies get rediculously overpowered when your vault gets large and unless you've spent real cash on lunchboxes to acquire enough equipment for everyone, you'll take so many casualties that it's impossible to recover.
So yeah, you don't NEED to spend real money on it, but it heavily encourages it as your vault expands. It's not the "yeah just play for fun don't worry about microtransactions" that Todd insinuated at the conference...
Or in other words: the graphics need to be dialed back because consoles can't handle them.
Good. The graphics we have seen are more than good enough for my purposes. At this point I'd much rather have double the draw distance than double the resolution on the textures.
This would be a good argument if PC's had any trouble handling both at the same time.
BrookM wrote: So, is this game going to be a PC game first, or a piece of fething piss gak port made for gak consoles first and for the PC as an afterthought?
Given the hardware capabilities of the consoles I'd imagine that even if they say they aren't going to cap the game they will. If they made the game to run on a decent PC first then I'm sure that the console gamers would be pissed off once they found out they were running their copy on one of the lower graphics settings. Meh, that's why Bethesda released a hi-res texture pack for the PC version of Skyrim, and what all those graphical improvement mods are for (that and if you're really dying for better graphics at launch before any mods are out you can just go into the .ini files and change things like the draw distance, which based on what's been seen is no better than Skyrim's).
I'd hate to see a repeat of Fallout 3, which ran quite gakky on the PC on release because of inept coding and general laziness that was mostly fixed through mods and the like.
Look at Skyrim and assume they're going for the same model. My opinion is that they'll release it catering for the consoles as those gamers will whine if it doesn't run properly (and youknow the whole thing Bethesda has with Microsoft and its Xbox consoles). Whereas if they release a crappier product on the PC, yes those gamers will also whine, but they can fix the issue themselves with mods.
Let's see if there's a repeat of the "Xbox has all the DLC months earlier than everyone else" thing that they've been doing recently too. Its annoying, but again at least on PC it wasn't as much of an issue as there were other mods to tide people over till the official stuff comes out. Woe to anyone on a Playstation though, ah, but yeah, like I care. Who's playing a Bethesda game on a console, really?
Meh, with consoles my thoughts are "why don't you just plug a console controller into your PC and hook the monitor into your Tv?". ...Or youknow the whole purpose of those Steam machine things.
Well in my case the only PC I have is my laptop, which runs the indie and strategy games I like to play on it just fine.
Any other games we play on the console so I don't have to worry about what will work, how well it will work, maintaining a high-end PC so that it works well and so on and so forth.
Also means I can get my Civ on while she's playing the console
But I know that any means of trying to reason with the PC master race is futile, so I'll leave it there. Maybe one day they'll realize that different folks have different setups that work for them, and they'll come to an understanding and acceptance. But it is not this day...
Alex C wrote: . Maybe one day they'll realize that different folks have different setups that work for them, and they'll come to an understanding and acceptance. But it is not this day...
That day will dawn when games development isn't degraded by catering to the lowest common denominator, i.e. consoles.
Huh, see IIRC the last time Bethesda sold a similar game it was the retailers of the hard copy that were giving away the codes, not outlets like Steam. Well that was for Fallout, I don't know if Skyrim had any pre-order exclusives. Which bar just wanting a hard copy for ease of installing the game (which is automatically added to the Steam library in case I ever lose the disc), the extra content's always a bonus. That and you get the guide and, at least in Skyrim's case, a map too. Hmn, it'd be nice if the hard copy of Fallout 4 were to come with that nice cloth map that Skyrim came with actually, or maybe post cards of in-game locations like that Warhammer RTS came with.
Oh yes, when I pre-ordered New Vegas I got the codes for both the Vault Dweller kit (armoured vault suit, 10mm pistol and Vault 13 canteen) and the Road Warrior styled stuff (leather armour + shotgun etc.) along with a pair of New Vegas themed Vault Boy t-shirts.
Given that FO4 will allegedly take 400 hours to finish, how many of those hours will be aimlessly wandering around doing essentially the same thing al la Skyrim?
Basically will FO4 be extremely broad but extremely shallow?
Silent Puffin? wrote: Given that FO4 will allegedly take 400 hours to finish, how many of those hours will be aimlessly wandering around doing essentially the same thing al la Skyrim?
Basically will FO4 be extremely broad but extremely shallow?
Obviously. However they seem to have put a bit more detail into the locations than previously and upped the amount of extra crap you can do outside of the meat of the game.
When that guy said that he'd played 400 hours and not done everything my thoughts were, "aye, probably because all the randomly generated crap" and "aye, I put in hundreds of hours into those games to, but I only ever completed the main quests once or twice and its not as if I could be bothered playing every single hard to find quest". Yes though, I could see putting in a lot of time if you want to say play all the settlement stuff, or collect all the items (for instance the Pip-Boy upgrades).
I just hope that the part where they mention you can zoom out to get a top down view works well.
if they do that, and make sure every quest and story arc can be done killy, talky, sneaky, ect and good arcs for evil, good, and neutral chars ill be happy.
Or in other words: the graphics need to be dialed back because consoles can't handle them.
Good. The graphics we have seen are more than good enough for my purposes. At this point I'd much rather have double the draw distance than double the resolution on the textures.
This would be a good argument if PC's had any trouble handling both at the same time.
Unless it is The Witcher 3 E3 demo graphics in the final Witcher 3 open world, in which case they can't.
1. Vehicles.
I've been asking for this for years. New Vegas has a mod for vehicles, but that mod stopped working for me before I earned enough money to buy a car. Writing the game with vehicles in mind instead of some hobbyist trying to stitch them on on their own is bound to work better.
2. Better gunplay.
Absolutely. If the game functions reasonably as a first person shooter or a third person shooter in its own right, that would be great. For starters, letting us assign 1-9 hotkeys to specific weapons like a real FPS would be a lot better than having to go to the menu.
3. Make the epic moments epic.
Yep. This comes back to what I was saying about the graphics. I'd rather see the horsepower of modern PCs used to do more on screen - like pitched battles with dozens of soldiers on each side, or battlelines spanning entire city blocks - than just improving the texture quality of individual soldiers.
4. Less bugs.
Bethesda's games haven't been too bad for this. Yes, there are problems (like triggering a quest checkpoint in Dawnguard while Serana wasn't actually following me, meaning I had to "call" her along for the rest of the quest instead of having her auto-follow), but the only times I've actually seen crashes is by trying to put in incompatible mods or in New Vegas.
5. A livelier world.
See #3. Even if you have to use more generic NPCs and buildings to do it, bulking out the game world would make places like cities feel more like cities.
6. Improved karma.
Learning from New Vegas would be a good idea. Instead of worrying about whether an act is good or bad, the game should know what any of the various factions would think about it, and whether they would find out.
7. More Obsidian-like characters.
Another thing I have asked for, but not for the same reason. I don't want "more morally ambiguous", I want "more fleshed out". A good person doesn't need to be made less good to be interesting, just give them more of a personality and more things to talk about.
8. An even more hardcore mode.
Maybe a little more hardcore. Add Frostfall to NV's hardcore mode, and that's about what I'd be looking for. A mode where we have to think about things like "There's a rainstorm coming - I need to find a place to hole up for the night so I don't freeze. I'd better kill these raiders too, so that they won't catch me sleeping."
Going by the Ebay price of £3.40 for 100 bottle caps: (2240 / 100) x 3.40 = 76.16. The game retails for like £30. So... Unless we're talking the price of 2240 bottles of beer or the effort of picking up loose ones off the street or the ramifications for x number of guys sitting there drinking a dozen bottle a night regularly... Heh, up to the marketing department whether they rise to this, though I'm sure if they do anyone else who tries this isn't going to have the same chance.
Silent Puffin? wrote: That day will dawn when games development isn't degraded by catering to the majority, i.e. console owners and people with weaker computers
Well, I have the xbone collectors version pre-ordered and my wife and I have agreed to buy ourselves an xbone between ourselves as an early Christmas present.
Personally as long as the game is fun, I don't really care if the draw distance and graphics quality are not the best I could possibly have if I were running on a top spec pc.
Also liking what I heard about the xbone version being able to run mods fron the pc version; that has always been my main complaint with console games.
SilverMK2 wrote: Well, I have the xbone collectors version pre-ordered and my wife and I have agreed to buy ourselves an xbone between ourselves as an early Christmas present.
Personally as long as the game is fun, I don't really care if the draw distance and graphics quality are not the best I could possibly have if I were running on a top spec pc.
Also liking what I heard about the xbone version being able to run mods fron the pc version; that has always been my main complaint with console games.
Be warned the mods for console likely won't be too hot. Most of the better mods for Bethesda games require script extenders which is unlikely to go on console let alone run at a good fps with all them mods installed.
StarTrotter wrote: Be warned the mods for console likely won't be too hot. Most of the better mods for Bethesda games require script extenders which is unlikely to go on console let alone run at a good fps with all them mods installed.
Any support is better than no support! At the end of the day I expect the game to keep my wife and me enterained on its own without add ons.
We both still play gotye Skyrim, and gotye fallout 3 on a fairly regular basis; in fact we both recently restarted FO3
Minding also that as soon as you start adding mods the minimum system requirements jump up quite a lot too. For instance when I first installed Skyrim on this laptop the loading screens were instant and I didn't drop frames often. A couple of dozen mods later and the loading went up to a minute (even more and it was minutes, that's why I installed a mod that let me play pong during them). So yes a couple of minor mods don't drop many frames, but start sticking in the ones that are a couple of gigs in size and you'll see some loss. That's on a PC mind, on a console I'd hate to see the damage. =P
SilverMK2 wrote: Well, I have the xbone collectors version pre-ordered and my wife and I have agreed to buy ourselves an xbone between ourselves as an early Christmas present.
Personally as long as the game is fun, I don't really care if the draw distance and graphics quality are not the best I could possibly have if I were running on a top spec pc.
Also liking what I heard about the xbone version being able to run mods fron the pc version; that has always been my main complaint with console games.
Be warned the mods for console likely won't be too hot. Most of the better mods for Bethesda games require script extenders which is unlikely to go on console let alone run at a good fps with all them mods installed.
The "mods for console" will likely be the best ones, as Bethesda has to approve the mods.
That was the statement made at E3--that there would be a "hub" of mods, approved by Bethesda, that would be available.
Im going to make a women with a severe overbite, big eye ridges, 0 intelligences who goes around with a club.
PLEASE bethesda, keep the thing where low intelligence gives you different dialogue.
Honestly I'm more concerned/interested in what "Snapmap" and console mods imply for future Fallout/Elder Scrolls mod tool support.
On the one hand, Snapmap looks fantastic for what it is, and making modding tools more intuitive is fantastic. On the other, if Bethesda decide to take a Snapmap-style approach to console modding rather than the currently-assumed "curated selection" route, what will that mean for the PC tools? I doubt the PC version of Snapmaps will have the kind of extensibility necessary to support complex script-extenders, for example, and while that's not really an issue when you're talking about a tool to put together new maps and gamemodes for an arena FPS, saddling the PC with the sort of simplified functionality necessary to implement a modding tool on the consoles would be crippling for people designing content for a massive complex RPG.
I imagine they'll release the new version of the GECK for PC users, potentially alongside Snapmap so those who just want quick, easy tools can use Snapmap, whilst those who want to use more in depth, advanced tools will have all of the possibilities given by the GECK.
1. Vehicles.
I've been asking for this for years. New Vegas has a mod for vehicles, but that mod stopped working for me before I earned enough money to buy a car. Writing the game with vehicles in mind instead of some hobbyist trying to stitch them on on their own is bound to work better.
2. Better gunplay.
Absolutely. If the game functions reasonably as a first person shooter or a third person shooter in its own right, that would be great. For starters, letting us assign 1-9 hotkeys to specific weapons like a real FPS would be a lot better than having to go to the menu.
3. Make the epic moments epic.
Yep. This comes back to what I was saying about the graphics. I'd rather see the horsepower of modern PCs used to do more on screen - like pitched battles with dozens of soldiers on each side, or battlelines spanning entire city blocks - than just improving the texture quality of individual soldiers.
4. Less bugs.
Bethesda's games haven't been too bad for this. Yes, there are problems (like triggering a quest checkpoint in Dawnguard while Serana wasn't actually following me, meaning I had to "call" her along for the rest of the quest instead of having her auto-follow), but the only times I've actually seen crashes is by trying to put in incompatible mods or in New Vegas.
5. A livelier world.
See #3. Even if you have to use more generic NPCs and buildings to do it, bulking out the game world would make places like cities feel more like cities.
6. Improved karma.
Learning from New Vegas would be a good idea. Instead of worrying about whether an act is good or bad, the game should know what any of the various factions would think about it, and whether they would find out.
7. More Obsidian-like characters.
Another thing I have asked for, but not for the same reason. I don't want "more morally ambiguous", I want "more fleshed out". A good person doesn't need to be made less good to be interesting, just give them more of a personality and more things to talk about.
8. An even more hardcore mode.
Maybe a little more hardcore. Add Frostfall to NV's hardcore mode, and that's about what I'd be looking for. A mode where we have to think about things like "There's a rainstorm coming - I need to find a place to hole up for the night so I don't freeze. I'd better kill these raiders too, so that they won't catch me sleeping."
Only This
4. Less bugs.
Bethesda's games haven't been too bad for this. LIES!!!!!
Fall out 3 was a Bugfest, i enjoyed the game but saving constantly as not to lose too much progress at the next crash, strange glitches happening, rad scorpions half in the ground or missions interfering with DLC, all big fun! :(
1. Vehicles.
I've been asking for this for years. New Vegas has a mod for vehicles, but that mod stopped working for me before I earned enough money to buy a car. Writing the game with vehicles in mind instead of some hobbyist trying to stitch them on on their own is bound to work better.
2. Better gunplay.
Absolutely. If the game functions reasonably as a first person shooter or a third person shooter in its own right, that would be great. For starters, letting us assign 1-9 hotkeys to specific weapons like a real FPS would be a lot better than having to go to the menu.
3. Make the epic moments epic.
Yep. This comes back to what I was saying about the graphics. I'd rather see the horsepower of modern PCs used to do more on screen - like pitched battles with dozens of soldiers on each side, or battlelines spanning entire city blocks - than just improving the texture quality of individual soldiers.
4. Less bugs.
Bethesda's games haven't been too bad for this. Yes, there are problems (like triggering a quest checkpoint in Dawnguard while Serana wasn't actually following me, meaning I had to "call" her along for the rest of the quest instead of having her auto-follow), but the only times I've actually seen crashes is by trying to put in incompatible mods or in New Vegas.
5. A livelier world.
See #3. Even if you have to use more generic NPCs and buildings to do it, bulking out the game world would make places like cities feel more like cities.
6. Improved karma.
Learning from New Vegas would be a good idea. Instead of worrying about whether an act is good or bad, the game should know what any of the various factions would think about it, and whether they would find out.
7. More Obsidian-like characters.
Another thing I have asked for, but not for the same reason. I don't want "more morally ambiguous", I want "more fleshed out". A good person doesn't need to be made less good to be interesting, just give them more of a personality and more things to talk about.
8. An even more hardcore mode.
Maybe a little more hardcore. Add Frostfall to NV's hardcore mode, and that's about what I'd be looking for. A mode where we have to think about things like "There's a rainstorm coming - I need to find a place to hole up for the night so I don't freeze. I'd better kill these raiders too, so that they won't catch me sleeping."
Only This
4. Less bugs.
Bethesda's games haven't been too bad for this. LIES!!!!!
Fall out 3 was a Bugfest, i enjoyed the game but saving constantly as not to lose too much progress at the next crash, strange glitches happening, rad scorpions half in the ground or missions interfering with DLC, all big fun! :(
I've personally had pretty good runs with Bethesda games. Though I do tend to play in a particular way that I feel leaves me much less likely to suffer from bugs and gltches. The main one which I learned to do way back in Morrowind, is to exit the game instead of loading a save during play. Loading during play leaves behind bits of data that weren't cleared properly. I ususally finish quests, especially if they're long so if there's a bug I only need to load back a little bit. I pick up the enemies junk weapons/shields they dropped and put them on their corpses so the game clears them properly and I don't disintergrate anyone because it messes with respawning i.e. they stay a pile of dust forever.
Considering how long I've played and how many crashes I get (most during loading screens) I probably only get a crash once every 40 hours or so. Quest bugs even less so.
Still had Rad Scorpions in the ground, can't stop that. But in Fallout 4 they can burrow underground, so now it's a feature
But I REALLY hope they fix the disintergration respawning problem with Fallout 4, because that bug was in both New Vegas and Skyrim and I REALLY want to actually use Laser and Plasma weapons without worrying about it messing things up for me.
Sigvatr wrote: inb4 console peasants claiming the difference between 30 and 60 fps is barely visible and not an actual disadvantage.
In4b people being all smug about ultimately inconsequential things.
I could have got this to play on my PC, I could have got this on my XBone; I chose to get it on my XBone because that console is in the lounge so my wife and I can play together a lot more easily and comfortably than we could if I got it on PC and so had to play it in the study.
You are apparently getting it on the PC, so what the hell does it matter to you what the console specs are, and why the feth do you feel you have to comment on people who are? Who really gives a toss if you choose to pay on a PC just so you can get an extra 30Hz and a some more lines per image?
WOW! TOTALLY DIFFERENT GAMING EXPERIENCE COS PICTURE SO GUD!
Sigvatr wrote: inb4 console peasants claiming the difference between 30 and 60 fps is barely visible and not an actual disadvantage.
In4b people being all smug about ultimately inconsequential things.
I could have got this to play on my PC, I could have got this on my XBone; I chose to get it on my XBone because that console is in the lounge so my wife and I can play together a lot more easily and comfortably than we could if I got it on PC and so had to play it in the study.
You are apparently getting it on the PC, so what the hell does it matter to you what the console specs are, and why the feth do you feel you have to comment on people who are? Who really gives a toss if you choose to pay on a PC just so you can get an extra 30Hz and a some more lines per image?
WOW! TOTALLY DIFFERENT GAMING EXPERIENCE COS PICTURE SO GUD!
FFS...
While graphics are not the be all and end all, it's demonstrably true that a higher framerate makes for a better play experience; smoother movement on screen, more responsive control input etc. And the reason why PC gamers care about console specs and features is obvious; developers often cater to consoles in the delusional belief that their game can be the next Madden or CoD and tap into the DudeBros market to make them bajillions of dollars, and that almost always means a worse experience playing on PC. Imagine the positions were reversed, that most games were designed for PC-first regardless of suitability and consoles often only got crappy zero-effort ports with UIs designed for mouse & keyboard and game mechanics/difficulty balanced around M&K input rather than controllers, and that performance was always awful because games had been developed to take full advantage of additional PC horsepower; would console players not feel justifiably annoyed that developers were degrading their experience of the hobby they enjoy based on often misguided greed?
Yodhrin wrote: While graphics are not the be all and end all, it's demonstrably true that a higher framerate makes for a better play experience; smoother movement on screen, more responsive control input etc.
And again, I have no issue with consoles being limited to a lower graphics setting. I choose to get a console version (of many games) for reasons other than because of framerate or input method. I am not sure why you are supporting the strawman that console gamers will defend lower graphics settings looking better?
And the reason why PC gamers care about console specs and features is obvious; developers often cater to consoles in the delusional belief that their game can be the next Madden or CoD and tap into the DudeBros market to make them bajillions of dollars, and that almost always means a worse experience playing on PC. Imagine the positions were reversed, that most games were designed for PC-first regardless of suitability and consoles often only got crappy zero-effort ports with UIs designed for mouse & keyboard and game mechanics/difficulty balanced around M&K input rather than controllers, and that performance was always awful because games had been developed to take full advantage of additional PC horsepower; would console players not feel justifiably annoyed that developers were degrading their experience of the hobby they enjoy based on often misguided greed?
I have multiple games on both PC and console; the number of AAA (or even B or C) titles suffering from these kinds of problems, regardless of which market was "catered" to are minute. It is a massive non-issue touted by certain people as a means of being superior for no particular reason.
Besides which, what tiny portion of the PC market has a gaming rig powerful enough to run a brand new game, designed on the latest hardware and driver sets at full power? Perhaps everyone should have a developer rig so that PC games do not have to be crappy gaming rig ports but instead can run in their full splendour?
Yodhrin wrote: While graphics are not the be all and end all, it's demonstrably true that a higher framerate makes for a better play experience; smoother movement on screen, more responsive control input etc.
And again, I have no issue with consoles being limited to a lower graphics setting. I choose to get a console version (of many games) for reasons other than because of framerate or input method. I am not sure why you are supporting the strawman that console gamers will defend lower graphics settings looking better?
I'm not, I'm supporting the demonstrably correct assertion that publishers & developers tried to sell console gamers the idea that lower framerates were no different than higher framerates and, when that line of argument failed(mostly), now insist they are more "cinematic". "Console gamers" as a group evidently don't buy into that bollocks, but a decent number do, and gaming forums over the last few years are littered with examples.
And the reason why PC gamers care about console specs and features is obvious; developers often cater to consoles in the delusional belief that their game can be the next Madden or CoD and tap into the DudeBros market to make them bajillions of dollars, and that almost always means a worse experience playing on PC. Imagine the positions were reversed, that most games were designed for PC-first regardless of suitability and consoles often only got crappy zero-effort ports with UIs designed for mouse & keyboard and game mechanics/difficulty balanced around M&K input rather than controllers, and that performance was always awful because games had been developed to take full advantage of additional PC horsepower; would console players not feel justifiably annoyed that developers were degrading their experience of the hobby they enjoy based on often misguided greed?
I have multiple games on both PC and console; the number of AAA (or even B or C) titles suffering from these kinds of problems, regardless of which market was "catered" to are minute. It is a massive non-issue touted by certain people as a means of being superior for no particular reason.
Complete nonsense. Hell, there's a totemic example from the developer this thread refers to in the same style as the game it refers to; Skyrim. The UI is designed for use with a controller, the stats system was "streamlined" to appeal to fans of the more action-oriented RPGs that make big money on console platforms, even the draw distance that the engine is capable of is limited by the necessity for it to run on the 360(and that's not a case of them "downgrading" the console experience to fit the hardware - you literally cannot enable more than a handful of additional Cells to load LoDs on the PC without creating exponentially increasing numbers of engine and physics bugs, because they built the engine itself with the limitations of consoles as the ceiling of intended performance, not the baseline). Have a wander back through TotalBiscuit's Port Report video series and you find a litany of games that come to PC with console UIs barely altered, limited menu options, bugs, performance issues and so on.
Besides which, what tiny portion of the PC market has a gaming rig powerful enough to run a brand new game, designed on the latest hardware and driver sets at full power? Perhaps everyone should have a developer rig so that PC games do not have to be crappy gaming rig ports but instead can run in their full splendour?
Oh what utter dross, the idea that you need some monstrous LN2-cooled supercomputer to run most games on High at a good framerate is nonsense, I upgrade on a 5 year cycle normally and it takes until the last of those years before I have to seriously consider turning settings down. This isn't about snobbery or belittling people's choice of platform, you are choosing to interpret pretty mundane criticisms of industry practices as an attack.
Enough for christ's sake. This is a fallout 4 thread. If you desperately want to argue PC/Console for new releases, do it in another thread and do it politely. We've seen the arguments for both sides enough here, now we're just going in circles with regards to its relevance to this game.
Why anyone would play a Bethesda game on a console is beyond me. While the base games are acceptable, "great" even, it is the inevitable modding communities that spring up around their games (and the Construction Kits) that really make them shine. The right mods in the right places can turn a game from "good" to "freakin' amazing!".
While I've heard that the XBone will allow some mods to be installed (I'm picturing through a Steam Workshop-like interface) the tools and options for PC-oriented mods are far and away superior.
Psienesis wrote: Why anyone would play a Bethesda game on a console is beyond me. While the base games are acceptable, "great" even, it is the inevitable modding communities that spring up around their games (and the Construction Kits) that really make them shine. The right mods in the right places can turn a game from "good" to "freakin' amazing!".
While I've heard that the XBone will allow some mods to be installed (I'm picturing through a Steam Workshop-like interface) the tools and options for PC-oriented mods are far and away superior.
Yeah but for every great mod (Falskaar for Skyrim for example) you also will inevitably get approximately 100 anime-esque reskin mods or mods with actual bouncing cleavage that is so large in proportion to body size it puts Barbie to shame.
Psienesis wrote: Why anyone would play a Bethesda game on a console is beyond me. While the base games are acceptable, "great" even, it is the inevitable modding communities that spring up around their games (and the Construction Kits) that really make them shine. The right mods in the right places can turn a game from "good" to "freakin' amazing!".
While I've heard that the XBone will allow some mods to be installed (I'm picturing through a Steam Workshop-like interface) the tools and options for PC-oriented mods are far and away superior.
Psienesis wrote: Why anyone would play a Bethesda game on a console is beyond me. While the base games are acceptable, "great" even, it is the inevitable modding communities that spring up around their games (and the Construction Kits) that really make them shine. The right mods in the right places can turn a game from "good" to "freakin' amazing!".
While I've heard that the XBone will allow some mods to be installed (I'm picturing through a Steam Workshop-like interface) the tools and options for PC-oriented mods are far and away superior.
Yeah but for every great mod (Falskaar for Skyrim for example) you also will inevitably get approximately 100 anime-esque reskin mods or mods with actual bouncing cleavage that is so large in proportion to body size it puts Barbie to shame.
You say that like it's a bad thing...
But, seriously, it is exactly the content like Falskaar that makes the mods so worthwhile and seeing players take small bits of what Bethesda put into the game and run with it to make something truly grand or take it in completely new and different ways. Heck, Hearthfires exists because of a player-mod for Oblivion that permitted basically the same thing, and there's another mod for Skyrim that leverages the scripting engine of Hearthfires to permit you to custom-build your house anywhere in the outside world that you desire.
A game doesnt need mods to be good, thats why.
You're right, it doesn't. Vanilla FO3, FONV and Skyrim are all good games. Add mods? They're fethin' *great* games.
Psienesis wrote: Why anyone would play a Bethesda game on a console is beyond me. While the base games are acceptable, "great" even, it is the inevitable modding communities that spring up around their games (and the Construction Kits) that really make them shine. The right mods in the right places can turn a game from "good" to "freakin' amazing!".
While I've heard that the XBone will allow some mods to be installed (I'm picturing through a Steam Workshop-like interface) the tools and options for PC-oriented mods are far and away superior.
A game doesnt need mods to be good, thats why.
But why just play a good game, when you can turn a good game into a great game? And mods effectively give you infinite content, for as long as the community lasts.
I really like the direct acknowledgement of a Mod warning to stop the PC vs Consoles discussion, followed by immediately carrying it on.
This is a Fallout 4 thread, not a PC vs Consoles thread, or Mods vs Vanilla, or whatever it's descended into, and if everyone wants it to stay unlocked it might help to actually keep to the topic.
To bring the thread back on topic. Aside from the dog and possible robot companions. What sort would you like to see? And what mechanics would you like them to add to make companions more interesting?
Also, let's take guesses as to what the overall objectives will be.
I look forward to playing FO4, I dont want any mods, hacks or stupid unlimited health/infinite carry hacks that the PC gamers love to use to make the game easier.
I just want to play the game as the developers released it, on a console.
Oh and I still play 80's and 90's era games, not because they are 30/60 fps or optimized for high end PC gaming, I play them because they are good, enthralling games
I'd want better AI from the Companions, to include actual storylines with them. Similar to what appeared in FONV but was sadly missing from Skyrim, and was basically absent from FO3. Ideally, they will steal a page from Bioware and Dragon Age 3, which had some incredible character moments with the various companions you could bring, including some really tough decisions at certain points that could affect your standing with the companion, positively or negatively, while inversely affecting the Inquisition's readiness and abilities (like the Iron Bull storyline).
I also want them to remove that g-d Essential flag. Put it back like it was in Morrowind. If it breathes (or even if it doesn't) you can kill it... or maybe something else can. There should be no immortal children, companions, quest-givers, NPCs, or anything of the sort. The Wastelands are a violent, dangerous place... mouth off to the wrong guy/gal, get shot in the face.
Make it an M-rated game along the lines of DA? Maybe, possibly, if it's done right and well. One aspect I found interesting about the Wasteland of Fallout 3 was Paradise Falls, a camp of slavers run by a black man. I thought that was a rather creative subverting of the trope, and the storyline involving the Lincoln Memorial and the anti-slaver band there was pretty interesting.
As far as sources of Companions go? I'd like to see some Companions available not just based on your Karma rating, but also with your various standings with different factions. Like, you might be a complete tool, but in good with the Brotherhood of Steel, so a third party, who strongly dislike the Brotherhood, might not offer you the opportunity to get their Companion character... or, alternately, maybe they will, only to require you to later betray either the Brotherhood or that Companion later on down the line.
Or that certain companions don't get along with other companions. Why the rest of the FONV party got along so well with Veronica, decked out in her Brotherhood PA and wielding a Fisto! and a plasma pistol never made sense to me.
We've already talked about Dogmeat. I am sure there will be a Brotherhood of Steel option. How about the Followers of the Apocalypse? The Children of the Atom? How about the Outcasts? Any one of the various Raider tribes? I'm sure there will be at least 1 Ghoul and a Super-Mutant. How about another Sgt. Gutsy? Or a character similar to the android from Rivet City? Given what we know about the game, I'm certain androids will play a big part of the story, as will the line between "human" and "more human than human".
I was actually pretty fond of the character Bittercup from FO3. Shoot, you could even establish a whole mini-tribe of various people who are all weirdos, social outcasts and similar sorts. Seems like Achievement Bait just waiting to be picked up.
thedarkavenger wrote: To bring the thread back on topic. Aside from the dog and possible robot companions. What sort would you like to see? And what mechanics would you like them to add to make companions more interesting?
I'd like the companions to work more like Serana from Skyrim's Dawnguard expansion, so they feel more like real people. Have them comment on the places you take them or the weather while you're there. Have some of them get impatient if you're standing around (not crouching) and do something to break the tedium. Have a Brotherhood Paladin who refuses to wear stealthier gear until they trust you better, or someone whose carrying capacity increases as they get to know you and have less objections to helping you carry stuff. Give them opinions about various subjects and deep dialogue trees. Maybe have one who likes to says hello whenever you come across a caravan merchant. Random stuff like that that makes them feel less like kill-bots.
Well, I'm definitely going to have E-DE whether I have to mod him in or not, but I second them having their own storylines. I'd like them to expand upon what obsidian did, to give them decent questlines.
And give them personalities like obsidian did too, have them comment on surroundings, ect, have them groan or complain if you do stuff they don't like. Give their dialogue individuality as well.
MangoMadness wrote: I look forward to playing FO4, I dont want any mods, hacks or stupid unlimited health/infinite carry hacks that the PC gamers love to use to make the game easier.
I just want to play the game as the developers released it, on a console.
Oh and I still play 80's and 90's era games, not because they are 30/60 fps or optimized for high end PC gaming, I play them because they are good, enthralling games
I find that offensive, you make it seem like project navada, or EWE, or FOOK gave us god mode/instabgib powers. Sure there are cheat mods out there, but they're not gonna automatically be installed. Those cheat mods are literally a case of "don't like, don't use". They're there for those that want 'em, and no one else. Hell, on PC you can already use the console to do that!
thedarkavenger wrote: To bring the thread back on topic. Aside from the dog and possible robot companions. What sort would you like to see? And what mechanics would you like them to add to make companions more interesting?
Also, let's take guesses as to what the overall objectives will be.
From what I've heard (again, can't remember where, but it fits with the location of the game), it'll be more focused on social classes/castes struggles of androids vs human creators, with humans wanting to have them enslaved, and the Railroad (yes, the one from FO3) working to free them. Not really sure how the BoS will play into it, other than androids are pretty high tech, but I could see them on both sides (working with the railroad to give themselves a chance to capture a few/grab the original tech, or against for the exact same reasons).
As for companions, deathclaw/cazador :3 ? Nah, that'd be broken as feth, I'll either end up using the dog, either through nostalgia for dogmeats, but it'll probably come down to what perks they offer/combat power, i.e. in FO:NV, I always took Boon and EDE to pretty much know where all enemies are at all times. Obviously, we'll be seeing a dog, an android, and some human/ghoul companions, but I'm hoping for different animal/pet companions too, along with a super mutant or two. Maybe a centaur even? (they're just so cute! /sarcasm)
Psienesis wrote: I also want them to remove that g-d Essential flag. Put it back like it was in Morrowind. If it breathes (or even if it doesn't) you can kill it... or maybe something else can. There should be no immortal children, companions, quest-givers, NPCs, or anything of the sort. The Wastelands are a violent, dangerous place... mouth off to the wrong guy/gal, get shot in the face.
I like the way New Vegas handled it. There were no essential NPCs in the game and while the children were unkillable there were no children at all that you wanted to attack. In New Vegas they were always polite to the player, unlike Fallout 3 and Skyrim. Of course, Oliver and Lanius don't exist in the game till you get to their parts and Yes Man respawns but I'm still happy with how they dealt with having to tell a story.
Aye the way Bethesda handles NPC deaths tends to be rather poor. They seem to want to hold your hand and instead of just letting the player deal with doing something stupid and killing an important NPC they say, "oh there pet, look all better now". Though it'd help in say Skyrim if they didn't spawn dragons on important NPCs all the time too... Yes Morrowind's line "the thread of prophecy is broken. Reload your save now or carry on in the doom world you've created" was great, especially because you could still complete the game anyway in a few cases. Having NPCs die influence the player's story. "Hey I just did this awesome quest with this guy", "You did? Huh, I think he was was dead in my game" or "there was this criminal guy who really got on my nerves. Sure he wanted me to do a load of crap for him, but I just stabbed him in the face instead".
Bleh, another thing Obsidian handled better yes.
Edit: and don't start me on the attitude that some people have about mods liking them to cheating. Apparently because they're not released by the developer, who would charge from a few quid to £20 for them had they, that invalidates them entirely. I remember one guy at college who said that to me and I was just so utterly confused by his viewpoint. Mods just add more content and depth to games. Sure there's cheat ones out there, but regard them as DLC just made by third parties. The quality of course varies, but its a bit insulting to the mod community to say that their purpose is to break the game. ...If adding a ton of useless clutter items, prettying up the graphics or adding a new quest is broken then ...well whatever doesn't matter to those people because they aren't playing those mods in the first place apparently. Meanwhile I'll sit here with my couple of dozen gigs sized mod folder.
The biggest problem with killable quest NPC is they can also be killed by monsters or other NPCs. That is fething frustrating.
Maybe they can make it so that essential NPCs can't be killed by anyone except the player? That way it leaves you in control over what you miss and doesn't screw up the game.
MangoMadness wrote: I look forward to playing FO4, I dont want any mods, hacks or stupid unlimited health/infinite carry hacks that the PC gamers love to use to make the game easier.
I just want to play the game as the developers released it, on a console.
Oh and I still play 80's and 90's era games, not because they are 30/60 fps or optimized for high end PC gaming, I play them because they are good, enthralling games
Really? Almost all the mods I download in FO3, NV, and Skyrim are to make the game more challenging. I mean seriously, none of those games are particular challenging vanilla.
One option for essential npcs could be to make it impossiblie to kill them in one hit. If youd kill them, they kneel or something to tell you, "this guy is important". And then you can finish them off, if you want.
I'd like companions to not be as bloody stupid as they are in FO3, running straight into the path of my fire, or running off into the distance to attack an enemy I havent even clocked yet.
As for killable NPCs Im all for it. As long, as has been said, they are not just randomly murdered by other NPCs or monsters with no chance of being saved.
Maybe I'm just weird, but I've never felt the need to MURDER EVERYONE in my playthroughs. Even when I play an evil character, it's just not something that's come up.
Lotet wrote: while the children were unkillable there were no children at all that you wanted to attack. In New Vegas they were always polite to the player
Except the kids in the Legate camp if you're playing a female character. Tripped over the little bastards so many times and they gave away my position, 100 stealth or no. They also consistently showed up red on my radar for some reason, and as a sniper that's problematic...
Iron_Captain wrote: The biggest problem with killable quest NPC is they can also be killed by monsters or other NPCs. That is fething frustrating.
Maybe they can make it so that essential NPCs can't be killed by anyone except the player? That way it leaves you in control over what you miss and doesn't screw up the game.
Yes, this. Especially in games like Skyrim where they liked to randomly drop dragon and vampire attacks on the towns. At least someone eventually made a mod that forced everyone but the generic guards to run indoors during the attacks.
As far as "unkillable children" go, that's more due to various ratings/censorship laws in various countries throughout the world, right?
As far as "unkillable children" go, that's more due to various ratings/censorship laws in various countries throughout the world, right?
Pretty much. Good luck getting a game to come out in Australia where you can punch a kids teeth out the back of their head with a pneumatic fist
And in the US and Europe there would be all hell of a stink from the usual corners if that kind of thing was in it, though the game may eventually come out with an Adult-only rating.
Adult-only rating = less people can buy the game = less money.
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Pete Melvin wrote: Do you not even just go ballistic sometimes when a character really, relaly annoys you and you just stab them in the face?
Just me?
By Azura, by Azura, by Azura!
My characters typically never do anything to your face... You just might end up mysteriously dying after eating a delicious apple.
MangoMadness wrote: I look forward to playing FO4, I dont want any mods, hacks or stupid unlimited health/infinite carry hacks that the PC gamers love to use to make the game easier.
I just want to play the game as the developers released it, on a console.
Oh and I still play 80's and 90's era games, not because they are 30/60 fps or optimized for high end PC gaming, I play them because they are good, enthralling games
Most mods are to add complexity or cosmetic changes, not deploy god-mode items (though those certainly exist). If you hit up the Nexus, you'll see that a lot of the most-downloaded mods are things like Frostfall, Requiem, and Realism mods (requiring you to eat and drink).
I really, really want a sort of "Farmer Bob" character. Someone who is a not a particularly good fighter, but maybe has some high barter skills, some decent survival skills (if included in the game), and good repair skills. There are so many raider/BoS/mutant characters that are bad*** at everything involving killing. A settler kind of character who accompanies you for mostly for protection in exchange for perhaps helping with settlement building would be awesome. Maybe his construction perk could reduce the amount of materials needed to build structures or perhaps he could unlock new structures.
Hopefully there'll be some Raider clans we can join. It'll be nice to be the bad guy for a change, raiding settlements. Imagine a quest where an intact inhabited Vault is discovered, and you have the choice of helping the Vault Dwellers defend the Vault, or join the Raiders and massacre them all.
I really, really hope that the console versions can use the power of the next gen consoles to make using a script extender either possible or unnecessary.
Mods more than double the length of time that I play a Bethesda game.
At this point the computer versions are better, for that exact reason.
But that only means that I want to see the consoles catch up, not the game cut down so that it can run on consoles. (Steam Machines, I am looking at you!)
I am very glad to see that FO4 mods will work on consoles, and I really hope that this continues to be a trend - it may make console manufacturers allow for future expansion. (Again, Steam Machines, I am looking at you!)
And I am so very much looking forward to this game.
The Auld Grump - the only time that I remember a computer game that added the Best of Mods to the official game was Civilization II, way, way back when. (And I loved Civ II.)
I hope no vehicles. With no vehicles, you get a very good sense of Awe in the game. Slowly walking through you see the incomprehensible destruction. Adding vehicles would make the world smaller IMO
hotsauceman1 wrote: I hope no vehicles. With no vehicles, you get a very good sense of Awe in the game. Slowly walking through you see the incomprehensible destruction. Adding vehicles would make the world smaller IMO
I hope they don't, I think it's weird that there is all these old vehicles around yet no one interacts with them, same with animal mounts.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Gasoline after awhile goes stale.
And im sure vault dwellers are not the best and nuclear fusion, so they cant really do much with thecars
I think I want a more emphasized Mad Max theme in the game.
The 50s-era cars that the game captures were meant to be tanks (just like their RL counterparts) and while gasoline does go bad, eventually, nuclear fusion does not.
That said, unless the world map is *significantly* larger than that of FONV, vehicles will make it feel tiny. One of my biggest gripes with FONV is how small the region is.
Psienesis wrote: The 50s-era cars that the game captures were meant to be tanks (just like their RL counterparts) and while gasoline does go bad, eventually, nuclear fusion does not.
That said, unless the world map is *significantly* larger than that of FONV, vehicles will make it feel tiny. One of my biggest gripes with FONV is how small the region is.
Yeah, FO:NV was pretty small, as was FO:3, but it had the cool (imo) subway system to length it out a bit. The subways were honestly my fave part of the game, along with the ruins of DC. Really made it seem more post apocalyptical, instead of "the wild west, with lasers, and robots." (not hating on NV, love that game and all, but the atmosphere just didn't do it for me.)
Bromsy wrote: It's been more than 200 years since the great war; those cars should be piles of rust at best and nothing about them would be even close to working.
Yeah, it's pretty silly how well intact things are for 200 years.
Bromsy wrote: It's been more than 200 years since the great war; those cars should be piles of rust at best and nothing about them would be even close to working.
Yeah, it's pretty silly how well intact things are for 200 years.
Thats why I like fallout 2, for all it's silliness it really looked like a vast wasteland. Almost all the buildings are destroyed yet people still try live in them. Everything looked to me like it would after 164 years of neglect and a few nuclear blasts. Although you do get a highwaymen car in fallout 2 if you can get the parts, it is something uncommon for people to bother with due to distrust of fusion cells or something.
The enclave has old world technology hence why they had the scary vertibirds with nukes and so on. They simply had bases around the USA with fancy crap.
Personally if I got to chose the direction of fallout 4, I would have set it in one of the control vaults that got to monitor the experiments etc. Get to see some ideas behind the experiments (if any) and so on. Leave the old world as a mystery to all but the ghouls left from that time.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I also hope Vertibirds arent common everywhere like the trailer suggests. That was always exclusively an enclave toy that they took. When the great war happened it was still a prototype and as events played out it was the enclave who ended up producing them after the war.
In the new games yes, they chucked vertibirds at everyone for some reason. Brotherhood of steel used to use a motley fleet of aircraft but they lost it in a freak storm in fallout tactics. Other than that the enclave was the only faction to have and produce aircraft. In my opinion it should stay that way. Makes them scarier and it more unique. Obviously though it is too late for that...
Co'tor Shas wrote: Well, I think the NCR salvaged them from the enclave, so it's a bit more reasonable.
Ish, they also happen to learn to pilot it despite hundreds of years of nobody but enclave flying the things. Just seems really far fetched and a lame to me.
The concept art book pretty much opens with a line like, "yeah we looked at what happens after a nuke goes off and what decay's like and immediately thought that playing on a flat wasteland wouldn't be fun". Sure Washington could have been more destroyed, but I like all the tall buildings. Now I should note that the nukes in the Fallout world aren't the same as ours. They're not the tactical crap that's all about destruction. Nope, they're what we had way back in the early days. Those nukes were blown up while still in the air and let off a lot of radiation. Dirty bombs really. At least that's Bethesda's justification as to why they didn't do loads of damage.
On Vertibirds. Aye they were a post-war vehicle. However having the odd one turn up pre-war is fine. They were prototypes sure. When the crap hit the fan then who's to say the military didn't push out what ones they had built for select duties? When it comes to the post-war world, ah, Fallout 3 had this a bit odd. The Brotherhood of Steel, NCR and Shi (though the Shi became part of the NCR after the Enclave nuked them) had Vertibirds. I assume that 4's ones are salvaged from the Enclave, but I find it perfectly fine for another faction to be using them given that 2 and New Vegas says they do.
And on cars... Yeah, no. Seriously no. They just wouldn't work at all. Have you seen what the landscape's like in Fallout games? Try and drive a lowrider over some rocky terrain. There's a mod for New Vegas that adds cars to the game and it literally had to replace all the roads with repaired ones and have the cars stuck to the ground, and they still couldn't drive properly. Besides that they'd also ruin the scale of the world. You could ride a horse across the whole Skyrim map in like half an hour. Walking adds a sense of scale to the world, along with the fact one minute in the game is like ten in real life. Just ....no. You aren't playing Far Cry or that Mad Max game.
Ack, and damn I'm going on a bit. New Vegas' map wasn't "small". Its the same size as 3's. Fallout 3's map was a square. New Vegas' was a rectangle. They're the same size, just positioned differently. New Vegas had invisible walls around its central mountain range, but 3 also cut away a lot of the terrain near the edges of the map and the city. Josh Sawyer went on at length about this one time. =P
Bah, on gasoline. Screw it, on resources in general. In the real world it goes bad. Sure. In the Fallout world it can do whatever the hell it wants. Its sci-fi. Why is there still edible pre-war food? They added a crap ton of preservatives given that the pre-war US culture was all about being paranoid about war. That crap'll probably kill you in the long run, though the same goes for all the lead and the asbestos that lines Power Armour (seriously that Recon Armour's made of asbestos...). I should note that the cars in 3 are nuclear powered because of rule of cool. Every other games had them either gasoline or electrical powered (only the ancient and post-war vehicles are powered by gas though). New Vegas notably changed the Fallout 3 cars so they were electrically powered as well, or at least they don't blow up when you shoot them. I've discussed this crap in my Fallout thread before, but yes, the US was switching to electrical power before the war due to gasoline shortages. They had just invented microfusion cells and were beginning to convert everything to those. However the war came before that could happen. Hell the war was over fossil fuels, but had it not come the world would have been free of its reliance on them soon enough.
...Not that the war was really about the fuel of course. Heh, but aye I'll leave it up to you lot to filter my blog thread for my posts and read through the pages of fluff discussion if you really care about that crap.
Edit: oh and on the subject of spare parts. A tidbit. Aye replicators exist in the Fallout world. The Vaults had them, that's where the jumpsuits come from (the original game has a line about you trading in your jumpsuit for a new one that way). New Vegas established that the pre-war world was close to making holo technology commercial as well, but it was still being beta tested. Both of course need a lot of power and technological expertise, but aye, you could literally churn out anything you wanted if you did. Of course this doesn't fit the scavenger world style of the games, though it suits the idea that the pre-war world was full of lost wonders (what does that Ghoul in 3 say? "I was a scientist before the war. We made amazing things. Terrible things, but amazing!").
I'm not one for cars, but I feel they could do something with the motorcycle design they have, it looks pretty rugged, and you could have it electrically powered. Or possibly use biofuel. But that only works if they make a massive map (like 1:1 scale), and you could do that, but make most of the land, empty wasteland.
Co'tor Shas wrote: I'm not one for cars, but I feel they could do something with the motorcycle design they have, it looks pretty rugged, and you could have it electrically powered. Or possibly use biofuel. But that only works if they make a massive map (like 1:1 scale), and you could do that, but make most of the land, empty wasteland.
Cars are better because they let you bring your companions along, and because they are easier to make work the way they should work. You could have motorcycles in the game - especially if there are raiders who want to chase after you and ruin your day - but the car is the important bit.
As for the size of the map, one way to do it would be to use farmland to fill in some of the gaps with very little work. People need to eat, after all.
Even an "empty" location still takes a quarter of a day to make. I think Bethesda split it up as a day for a significant quest location where there's a lot going on. Half a day for most places and a quarter of a day if its just generic wasteland. That's for them building a cell of the outside world or multiple interiors. A flat piece of wasteland that you run through in second's had someone work on it for a couple of hours hand placing all those rocks and plants. Sure for exteriors they pre-generate the basic layout of the height maps, but everything else needs some sitting there working on it. So churning out a couple of miles of supposedly empty terrain would still take a team of developers months to create. ...Because if you are the guy who's walking through those at a slow pace instead of riding through them at 80 Mph you'll soon notice that the world's really basic unless someone's put the time into it (plenty of other games choose to do this, and its really jarring. Take big MMORPGs for instance).
So that farm would actually involve a ton of effort. Sure copy and past all the corn rows, but what next? Then you need the fences, the dirt track, scare crows, broken down farming equipment. What about items for the player to pick up? Yeah each of those you need to go in and mark down the quantity and quality. Stick in a barn, right you have that, then what about the containers for looting? Gotta set up leveled lists for those. What about NPCs? Aye, then maybe quests, If they're hostile then you need to plan out multiple routes for the player to attack and their patrol patterns. Random encounters, which can spawn their safely without bugging out? Lighting... Ambient effects... Seriously the amount of work you need to put in to make just one place with the detail required for one of these games. When I make mods I'll literally spend a day just making a single interior, and those developers are expected to dozens. =P
Psienesis wrote: That said, unless the world map is *significantly* larger than that of FONV, vehicles will make it feel tiny. One of my biggest gripes with FONV is how small the region is.
FONV seemed big enough to me, how much space do you need in your sand boxes? Isn't what it contains more important than the size?
Wyrmalla wrote: So that farm would actually involve a ton of effort. Sure copy and past all the corn rows, but what next? Then you need the fences, the dirt track, scare crows, broken down farming equipment. What about items for the player to pick up? Yeah each of those you need to go in and mark down the quantity and quality. Stick in a barn, right you have that, then what about the containers for looting? Gotta set up leveled lists for those. What about NPCs? Aye, then maybe quests, If they're hostile then you need to plan out multiple routes for the player to attack and their patrol patterns. Random encounters, which can spawn their safely without bugging out? Lighting... Ambient effects... Seriously the amount of work you need to put in to make just one place with the detail required for one of these games. When I make mods I'll literally spend a day just making a single interior, and those developers are expected to dozens. =P
What you're missing is that one house and ten thousand square meters of cornfield takes only slightly more work than just making one house. You're not supposed to be filling it up with assorted junk to distract the player - it's just there to fill space adjacent to the road you'll be following in a more natural fashion than putting a cliff face there.
Aye, which is why I pointed out that not everyone would be driving through the thing at 80mph. If you wanted to stop to scavenge it or were walking the whole way you'd notice. The games are about being able to stop anywhere and find something cool (Skyrim especially), so getting rid of that would be really, really silly. =P
Wyrmalla wrote: Aye, which is why I pointed out that not everyone would be driving through the thing at 80mph. If you wanted to stop to scavenge it or were walking the whole way you'd notice. The games are about being able to stop anywhere and find something cool (Skyrim especially), so getting rid of that would be really, really silly. =P
Again play the Mad Max game if you want that.
Having cars doesn't really prevent players from doing this.
The argument I'm hearing "cut down the level of detail on a location so you can make the world larger so that the driving elements are better". That means at the expense of exploring stuff close up, or am I missing something here? Like I said a lot of time goes into even the most basic of locations, so you can churn them out, but if you wanted a game that was say four times the size of Skyrim or something you'd be walking about on a flat plane.
Wyrmalla wrote: The argument I'm hearing "cut down the level of detail on a location so you can make the world larger so that the driving elements are better". That means at the expense of exploring stuff close up, or am I missing something here?
What you're missing is that it's not at the expense of exploring stuff close up. Bethesda's games have never claimed that every single thing in their world is worthy of your undivided attention - the people who haven't already figured that out are too busy stealing brooms to play through the game. A cornfield might not be worth exploring but it doesn't pretend to be, and it does add volume to the game world and help with worldbuilding on a very small budget that does not detract from all the other places that are worth exploring.
Ah, so you want a larger game world with the same level of detail? ...In the same time frame and with the same budget?
Like I've said, even locations which people think are empty still take hours to make... You can't just pre-generate all that for the most part, and even those elements that are need to be touched up and checked. That cornfield isn't just a ton of corn in rows, even if it were it'd still take a load of work. Bleh, game design. =P
I think it's mostly a case of while Bethesda games are wonderful sandbox romps, they tend to break immersion when it comes to "developed" areas.
Consider the sharecropper farm in FONV; a couple small backyard gardens "Which feed New Vegas and the NCR Army"
Granted, Skyrim felt better in that regard; while the settlements were still quite tiny at the end of the day, they did lay them out in such a way with suitable sprawl leading up to them that they felt more substantial. Under critical examination, yeah they're 30 guys and a dozen rooms, but wandering through they felt plausable.
And that's what people are looking for, preferably expanded upon, for FO4; we don't need cities with 10,000 active AIs and a surrounding farmland of several thousand acres, but designed in such a way that it looks like a believable settlement, not a bunch of random rooms and a few NPCs and minimal props. More Whiterun and Megaton, less Winterhold and, well, every New Vegas settlement after your start locale (and I loved NV, don't get me wrong).
The more they can add to making an area look believable, and of a proper scale, the better, the settlements in particular. The FO3 Wasteland felt big, with a right mix of empty and stuff to not feel overly constrained or jam-packed. FONV did a lot better on the narrative side than F03, and had many excellent gameplay additions, but the wasteland was much more linear in nature; you basically had a circular canyon with limited access mountains and side-areas. The follow the road thing worked in a Mad-Max sort of way, but reduced freedom and sense of exploration. Even so, it was the settlements which remained the weakest part of the presentation.
Wyrmalla wrote: Ah, so you want a larger game world with the same level of detail? ...In the same time frame and with the same budget?
Like I've said, even locations which people think are empty still take hours to make... You can't just pre-generate all that for the most part, and even those elements that are need to be touched up and checked. That cornfield isn't just a ton of corn in rows, even if it were it'd still take a load of work. Bleh, game design. =P
That's why they need to go back to the old school way of doing it. A huge vast map that you get random encounters on. Maps felt huge, weren't cluttered and more importantly weren't immersion breaking. Much better that way.
Cheesecat wrote: FONV seemed big enough to me, how much space do you need in your sand boxes? Isn't what it contains more important than the size?
Sure content is more important. But it sure felt small when I followed some freed slaves from the Legion Compound at the bottom of the map to see where they went. It was a run through a field with a few Bighorns and featurless terrain and suddenly I was already at the Viper Raider den south of Novac, from Novac to Boulder City and then New Vegas... I was kind of let down by how uneventful the trip was and how quick it was over.
Swastakowey wrote: That's why they need to go back to the old school way of doing it. A huge vast map that you get random encounters on. Maps felt huge, weren't cluttered and more importantly weren't immersion breaking. Much better that way.
It was plenty immersion breaking for me. First time I played, got some wounds trying to figure out how to fight the rats, healed up, left the cave and was suddenly surrounded by raiders that all managed to sneak up within 10 metres of me on featurless terrain. I gave up on that game for a few months. The next time I played there was a car salesman. I looted a BB Gun from his trunk which could kill Super Mutants in 2 hits. No, I don't like it, my immersion is broken.
Aye in the first games you could be any type of character you want. ...Then you met the higher level enemies and you pretty much had to be a tank. You could act any way you wanted, but unless you were nice to everyone you'd fail their quests (Yogscast Sips did a let's play of the first game. Its just him repeatedly reloading his game for saying literally anything at all to Rhombus and being kicked out of the Brotherhood).
Skyrim was a major improvement on world design from Bethesda's older games. They made a point of putting notes and quests in every location and included a ton more random encounters. Sure it still wasn't amazing, but it felt like there was more going on. ...And yeah, as ever that's just the vanilla game, there's plenty of mods that add tons of content.
Oh, and as ever Obsidian made New Vegas. Just saying. =P
Cheesecat wrote: FONV seemed big enough to me, how much space do you need in your sand boxes? Isn't what it contains more important than the size?
Sure content is more important. But it sure felt small when I followed some freed slaves from the Legion Compound at the bottom of the map to see where they went. It was a run through a field with a few Bighorns and featurless terrain and suddenly I was already at the Viper Raider den south of Novac, from Novac to Boulder City and then New Vegas... I was kind of let down by how uneventful the trip was and how quick it was over.
Swastakowey wrote: That's why they need to go back to the old school way of doing it. A huge vast map that you get random encounters on. Maps felt huge, weren't cluttered and more importantly weren't immersion breaking. Much better that way.
It was plenty immersion breaking for me. First time I played, got some wounds trying to figure out how to fight the rats, healed up, left the cave and was suddenly surrounded by raiders that all managed to sneak up within 10 metres of me on featurless terrain. I gave up on that game for a few months. The next time I played there was a car salesman. I looted a BB Gun from his trunk which could kill Super Mutants in 2 hits. No, I don't like it, my immersion is broken.
Well if the vast wasteland is meant to be full of sand dunes as all the art in the game shows. So it's likely they snuck up most of the way. In order for games to be immersive they need to be abstract or they will never succeed. Less abstract means the problems stand out more, like shooting people in the face shot after shot in fallout 3. Its almost as bad as skyrim having arrows in peoples faces but them not being able to see you, the lack of abstraction messes with the game big time.
Sounds like you need to up the difficulty in that game, a bb gun should suck, especially since the 10mm pistol does crap all against mutants. Although to be fair I have yet to use the bb gun, but I am sure it does at most 3 damage from memory, so it wont be killing super mutants. More than likely you are exaggerating a bit...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wyrmalla wrote: Aye in the first games you could be any type of character you want. ...Then you met the higher level enemies and you pretty much had to be a tank. You could act any way you wanted, but unless you were nice to everyone you'd fail their quests (Yogscast Sips did a let's play of the first game. Its just him repeatedly reloading his game for saying literally anything at all to Rhombus and being kicked out of the Brotherhood).
I never had this issue, all my characters can beat the game except ones focussed on throwing skill, which only the most hardcore players can do. I am not hardcore enough to throw things at my enemies until I win haha.
I think the issue is the game doesn't hold your hand, many of my friends struggled because it didn;t tell them what to do every step of the way. Once they got passed that they loved it.
I will admit the old games have their flaws though, it has doctor who in it and I hate doctor who.
Swastakowey wrote: Sounds like you need to up the difficulty in that game, a bb gun should suck, especially since the 10mm pistol does crap all against mutants. Although to be fair I have yet to use the bb gun, but I am sure it does at most 3 damage from memory, so it wont be killing super mutants. More than likely you are exaggerating a bit...
I looked it up, it's the Red Ryder LE BB gun, it has a base damage of 25 which is higher that the Sniper Rifle's damage between 14-34, averaged to 24. Assuming Super Mutants have 50 hp, which is only a guess, it would reliably kill them in 2 hits.
Swastakowey wrote: Sounds like you need to up the difficulty in that game, a bb gun should suck, especially since the 10mm pistol does crap all against mutants. Although to be fair I have yet to use the bb gun, but I am sure it does at most 3 damage from memory, so it wont be killing super mutants. More than likely you are exaggerating a bit...
I looked it up, it's the Red Ryder LE BB gun, it has a base damage of 25 which is higher that the Sniper Rifle's damage between 14-34, averaged to 24. Assuming Super Mutants have 50 hp, which is only a guess, it would reliably kill them in 2 hits.
I played the original games as a high intelligence character who focused on long range guns and didn't like wearing Power Armour. That's my build in the newer games see, especially New Vegas where speech is really important too. In the originals though you've no chance with all those tight corridors and high health enemies. It could probably work if I'd dumped all my points into gaining AP and toted about a Plasma Rifle, but I was roleplaying. See you can talk your way out of a lot of situations, but there's so much combat in between those that you just can't beat the game without some fighting (screw the sneaking system and its RNG...). Of course you can't talk a Deathclaw to death in New Vegas either, but at least then I could get away with a lot more (you don't have to be a straight combat character to win that game. You don't have to be in the originals either, but its just not fun constantly reloading the game because an enemy spotted you). Meh, old game design compared to new ones I suppose. =P
Wyrmalla wrote: I played the original games as a high intelligence character who focused on long range guns and didn't like wearing Power Armour. That's my build in the newer games see, especially New Vegas where speech is really important too. In the originals though you've no chance with all those tight corridors and high health enemies. It could probably work if I'd dumped all my points into gaining AP and toted about a Plasma Rifle, but I was roleplaying. See you can talk your way out of a lot of situations, but there's so much combat in between those that you just can't beat the game without some fighting (screw the sneaking system and its RNG...). Of course you can't talk a Deathclaw to death in New Vegas either, but at least then I could get away with a lot more (you don't have to be a straight combat character to win that game. You don't have to be in the originals either, but its just not fun constantly reloading the game because an enemy spotted you). Meh, old game design compared to new ones I suppose. =P
Its pretty easy, you say sniper? Then with your stats simply hit them in the eyes. It's pretty easy for sniping geared players to do that. Hitting enemies in the eyes increases the critical chance by a huge amount (30% if I remember correctly) and critical hits is how the less combat geared players get by. You can also run from situations as well, in new games almost all the enemies are beatable with ease. Heck I used to roam the wasteland with Pajamas and bonnie hat for ages in fallout 3, even on the hardest it was only a challenge because the enemies seemed to have way harder health.
In the earlier fallout games you are much less of a super soldier and more of a normal person, so you can't kill hundreds of super mutants without a scratch and enclave soldiers are something you have to run away from etc. The games kinda simply get easier I guess.
Stealth is always an RNG, even IRL. There's always a chance that the person you're trying to avoid being noticed by turns his head at the wrong time, or the wind shifts and he (or his guard animal) smell you, hear you, or happen to notice the moonlight catch on your watch, your weapon, your equipment... or you step on something that makes a noise that you didn't see in the dark.
As to it taking hours to create multiple detailed areas... not really. Once you have the first building modeled and rendered, you're done with the hard part. Place as many of those in your game world as you want (until the engine explodes). All games recycle textures and meshes, sometimes complete models. The FO series does this everywhere, with buildings, junked cars, terrain, plants, people, weapons... basically, things only have 2 or 3 different variations, and from these basic variations entire areas are created. All ammo cans look the same, all mines of a given type look the same, there's only like 5 variations of the "Wasteland house", most of which only adjust the placement of doors and windows (which are, themselves, separate objects inserted into the model) and so on and so forth.
Has anyone played the Hardcore mode in New Vegas? Any advice for that? Is it any good?
I'm at the point now where I'm a ridiculously overpowered monster and I'm thinking about re-rolling as a straight up Cowboy. (Revolvers, Cowboy Repeaters etc ). I also missed out on a lot of the Companion quests, the ones that depend on accumulating "history points" by having them present when you visit certain places or the first time you speak to a certain NPC.
HC mode bumps the challenge only slightly. You're required to remain fed/hydrated, ammo and caps have weight, and stimpacks have a heal-over-time effect, rather than immediate restoration of HP.
I have never played FONV without it enabled, but have also never found it to be particularly impactful to a playthrough,
Are you on the PC Shadow Captain Edithae? If so then there's mods out there that add to hardcore mode. As in ones which expand the variety of food available, add additional requirements to hardcore (counting calories) and making it so you need to manually reload guns (every magazine has its own bullet count, so if you reload before one's empty you'll wind up with a load of half full mags).
I always played New Vegas with Hardcore mode on, particularly because I play the other Bethesda RPGs with mods that require you to eat and sleep, so having it already built into the game makes that easier. It adds another layer to the game which yes after a while is simple to manage (its not as intrusive as the mods that build on it which need you to manage protein, etc). So you'll start the game putting aside those caps that you would have spent on ammo on buying a bit of food, but even by the mid game you find enough food in the wasteland to survive. Personally though I roleplay it, set my maximum weight to something like 50 and then your inventory management becomes a lot more important. Which brings me to the bullet weight. With that it means that you can't just pick up every piece of loot you see and don't care. Again if you have a massive encumbrance it doesn't matter, but in my case I limited my character to only a few mags for their AK and a few for their backup pistol (anything else and I wouldn't have been able to carry their armour, medicine - which has weight too - and other bits of crap like books, and that's not counting any loot I happen to find).
So if you are going to play that mode I'd say that put the effort into it. As it is you'll not really notice it after a while, the only bug being those 1000 Stimpaks weigh 20 pounds, etc. If you do care about roleplaying download some mods which at least cut down on your encumbrance (J.E.Sawyer's mod is geared towards hardcore mode and includes this. He was the lead dev, so that mod is how he wanted the game, but couldn't as it'd make the game too difficult for the average gamer), add more food types and crafting recipes into the game and well just ones that add more depth and challenge (like say the gun and armour expansion ones, ones which add more graffiti, magazines, etc).
Speaking of Fallout would anybody like to try get a PnP game set up?
I have all the rules that came with my fallout 1 and 2 disc and can probably get interactive sheets etc all set up. Just need people and a place to try it out?
If keen let me know and I will start a thread for it somewhere. I am keen to DM if needed etc.
Wyrmalla wrote: Ah, so you want a larger game world with the same level of detail? ...In the same time frame and with the same budget?
Like I've said, even locations which people think are empty still take hours to make... You can't just pre-generate all that for the most part, and even those elements that are need to be touched up and checked. That cornfield isn't just a ton of corn in rows, even if it were it'd still take a load of work. Bleh, game design. =P
And yet, The Witcher 3 was developed in 3 years with half the budget Skyrim had (and CDPR created a new engine for TW3). Fallout4's development time will be at least 2.5 years, and will almost certainly cost at least as much as Skyrim, if not more (and do we know what engine it is using, maybe the same as Skyrim?). And TW3 is full of detail, and bigger than Skyrim.
So, yes, large and detailed gameworlds can be done, if the developers really want to do it.
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: Has anyone played the Hardcore mode in New Vegas? Any advice for that? Is it any good?
I recommend it. One thing I would suggest is the mod Bottle That Water, which as its name suggests lets you refill water bottles. It's probably not necessary to do well, but it's the kind of thing that feels right to be able to do.
Oh god, not that mod... A mod which puts a lot of effort into adding new locations into the game, but then fills them with a ridiculous number of overpowered enemies (least that was the case when I played it a couple of years ago). Eugh, I just don't mods like and the Monster mod which think that its fun to add a boss level monster every five steps. For all the mods that increase the number of NPCs that spawns and up their damage to a silly level, none of them decrease them (the wasteland's turned into a zoo for all intents).
Oh, hell yes! "AWOP" and "Zombie Apocalypse" mods can be a lot of fun, if you want to experience an entirely new philosophy behind the Wastelands.
I think AWOP was my fave, as you could get pulled into a Silent Hill-like aspect of certain regions and have to make your way through a hellish nightmare-scape before you could escape, with an additional add-on to the core mod.
AWoP is a great mod that I do not use. (I ended up starting over with a fresh character - my AWoP character just ended up with way too much stuff.) Lots of fun, plenty of mayhem... just not what I wanted. (I am quite sure that it is something that a lot of other folks would enjoy a great deal.)
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: Has anyone played the Hardcore mode in New Vegas? Any advice for that? Is it any good?
I recommend it. One thing I would suggest is the mod Bottle That Water, which as its name suggests lets you refill water bottles. It's probably not necessary to do well, but it's the kind of thing that feels right to be able to do.
Cheers. Downloading now.
Gonna start a new character for Hardcore. As I'm watching Firefly lately, its feels right that I call him Malcolm Reynolds.
In Fallout 4 I really hope a lot of the Western style weapons make a return - I've enjoyed the weapons in New Vegas far more than Fallout 3. The (scoped) Hunting Rifle and Cowboy Repeater especially.
Got my Nexus Mod Manager up and running again (installed it months ago for Skyrim but never got round to playing it)...and now I'm starting to get carried away.
BrookM wrote: I'd be really happy if That Gun is in it again.
Though I'll be pleased as punch if both leather armour and the sawn-off shotgun are in again.
"That Gun" was in because it was Obsidian that made NV, made up of some of the people who made the original Fallout games that also featured it. Will Bethesda offer such fan service? I don't know. Bethesda's idea of offering fan service was to try to cram everything they could into a setting on the other side of the USA from the original games with stuff that was really only found in the region the original games took place in. You don't need to have Super Mutants, Brotherhood of Steel, The Enclave, Harold, etc., to make it a Fallout game. But Bethesda relied on those crutches too heavily. Hopefully they don't rely as much on them this time around and actually try to create something new.
BrookM wrote: I'd be really happy if That Gun is in it again.
Though I'll be pleased as punch if both leather armour and the sawn-off shotgun are in again.
"That Gun" was in because it was Obsidian that made NV, made up of some of the people who made the original Fallout games that also featured it. Will Bethesda offer such fan service? I don't know. Bethesda's idea of offering fan service was to try to cram everything they could into a setting on the other side of the USA from the original games with stuff that was really only found in the region the original games took place in. You don't need to have Super Mutants, Brotherhood of Steel, The Enclave, Harold, etc., to make it a Fallout game. But Bethesda relied on those crutches too heavily. Hopefully they don't rely as much on them this time around and actually try to create something new.
While I agree in general, I think Bethesda did the right thing by cramming a lot of Fallout 1/2 factions, characters, and items in the game. It helped tie Fallout 3 to the original two When you're rebooting a franchise, you need to connect it to the past. Hopefully, they will feel free to explore new territory in Fallout 4.
4's having Fallout 3's weapons return, at least some of them. I wouldn't expect to see the majority be there of course and I doubt New Vegas' weapons will be included by and large. However that means we'll see a load of new ones which'll fill in the same roles (because in the real world we don't just a single shotgun or a single assault rifle used the world over). If its really such a problem for people who are attached to specific weapons then just wait for a mod to come out that includes them. Hell Skyrim has a mod which adds in Morrowind's and Oblivion's weapons... (so great finding a Kvatch Shield at one point).
Kvatch had a nice emblem. It would be like a friendly face in Skyrim to see it again. I'm all for seeing some new weapons, but having some of the older guns make a return would be nice.
Wyrmalla wrote: 4's having Fallout 3's weapons return, at least some of them. I wouldn't expect to see the majority be there of course and I doubt New Vegas' weapons will be included by and large. However that means we'll see a load of new ones which'll fill in the same roles (because in the real world we don't just a single shotgun or a single assault rifle used the world over). If its really such a problem for people who are attached to specific weapons then just wait for a mod to come out that includes them. Hell Skyrim has a mod which adds in Morrowind's and Oblivion's weapons... (so great finding a Kvatch Shield at one point).
Honestly I'm just hoping they explain the energy weapons. I always liked how, in the first two games, Energy weapons weren't an early game weapon. They were rare late-mid to late game weapons that annihilated opponents and had a goofy retro design to them whilst 3 opted for semi-practical ramshackle aesthetics while designing them to be usable even from earlier on in the game. I know why but I was a sucker for the old school energy weapons.
Also I'm happy it seems that they are bringing back a bit of the looks of the old school power armor. It's not quite the same but I don't mind. I just prefer it over the Enclave armor in Fallout 3
But how deep and involved will that 400 hours be? I put 105 hours into the The Witcher 3, and not one moment of it felt like filler or grind and everything seemed new and different. In contrast, I've put 228 hours into Skyrim, haven't finished the game yet (started over about halfway through to try different playstyle along with the additions of the expansions and lots of mods), but a lot of it has felt like grind (leveling up skills) and filler (particularly with Bethesda's copy-paste dungeon/cave designs).
Shoot, in Skyrim, I clock in almost 100 hours before I arrive at Whiterun for the first time. With the LAL mod, I don't start the game at Helgen, I start... elsewhere.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Anyone ever feel that sandbox games are too axpansive sometimes?
No, not really. Most end up feeling too small to me.
Same here. It just feels off when you cross a country in 15 minutes...When a thriving metropolis seems to have about two dozen citizens.
Witcher 3 being the notable exception so far.
Psienesis wrote: Leather Armor has been a Fallout standard since the very first game.
More like pussy armor! Real men wear POWER ARMOR. BECAUSE POWER.
Lies. Real men wear no armor, and use their manly 10 Endurance to deflect bullets with their pecs.
Power Armor encourages weakness. Conan would disapprove.
Bullets? Hah! More like rain drops hailing down on my shiny metal butt. Plus all of my implants run without the need of an external power source thanks to glorious steel! In-built energy shield that repels melee attackers? CHECK. EMP attacks at will? CHECK. Flame burst at will? CHECK. Run faster, lift harder, hit harder, immune to radiation, collect ALL THE THINGS without ever being overburdened? CHECKCHECKCHECK.
...plus you look like a total badass...and somehow still sneak as quiet as a mouse...uhm...
Would not suspect that Bethesda would step on Obsidian's toes including Legion or NCR stuffs into the game. It's possible, I'd bet against it.
I'll take the words "it just works" literally, that is all I'll hope for in 4.
No way they'll do a better job than Obsidian's next west coast. Interacting with 'bandits' rather than just fighting would be neat. Something Obsidian will have a harder time avoiding with a short dev window and the fact the NCR gets killy too easy. The legion has so much potential. Obsidian needs to work on the gangs more, alot of their enemies feel tacked on, just there. No interaction between the main and lesser gangs was the weakest spot while walking Nevada. Hot spots with no connections, unless the Legion was involved.
My guess is Hawaii, Guam and other islands are the biggest bases the Enclave maintain.
And they could certainly use the non NCR armour from Lonesmome road as the model. Maybe they could stick the the elite riot armour somewhere as a unique? That would a nice little Easter egg/homage.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Swastakowey wrote: In Fallout 2 the NCR simply had police clothing from memory.
I didn't get far into new vegas but they all had weird brown clothes.
It's only the NCR rangers, and it's relatively late game.
It's only the NCR rangers, and it's relatively late game.[/img]
NRC Elite Ranger armor can be obtained relatively early on and usually is a mid-game option. Lategame, you just use Power Armor.
Unless you're role playing and don't want it. :p
My second character is a wannabe cowboy and wandering scavenger who joins the NCR.
Desert Ranger Combat Armour can be obtained in a cave in Zion Canyon (Honest Hearts DOC). The best thing about it is that it's not tied to the NCR Faction, so faction reputations remain normal when you wear it. You can walk right into the Legion Fort wearing it. Looks cool too. But it's a mid game item, the Honest Hearts DLC is for lvl 20+ or something.
It's only the NCR rangers, and it's relatively late game.[/img]
NRC Elite Ranger armor can be obtained relatively early on and usually is a mid-game option. Lategame, you just use Power Armor.
Unless you're role playing and don't want it. :p
My second character is a wannabe cowboy and wandering scavenger who joins the NCR.
I found it on a dead patrol while exploring the Wasteland, just before getting ambushed myself - so it seemed like the very same ambush killed the NCR ranger. Still within roleplaying borders
Also, a tip for maintaining Ranger Armour. It costs a bloody fortune to have a vendor repair Ranger Combat Armour from 0 to 100%. But if you raise your Repair skill to 90, the Jury Rigging perk will let you use any Armour of the same weight category to repair it.
Did they ever make a mod to fix the NCR hit team bug, where they wouldn't spawn after the first warning meetup?
I was lucky enough to aquire both the Ranger Sequoia and NCR combat armor off that lady and her crew. No NCR fights makes me sad and the game more bland. The Legion puts up poor fights, with the wolfhead guy always running.
I always use Joshua Graham's light armor, It keeps death possible, never use power armor, don't like it. In 3 the Hellfire armor was the only thing I wanted to wear tho'.
Honest Hearts is my favorite DLC, didn't like it the first time through. Lonesome Road close 2nd.
Dead Money is annoyingly good, screw the speakers and the Ghost People are wussies. They needed to be near unkillable for them to work. I killed the scary unkillable 'ghost' fungas spore infested man/woman with a cutting knife, go me. The fog was perfect. Story, characters and rewards are awesome. I always get the gold.
Old World Blues, good story, but not the most interesting. A great breakaway, but Lonesome Road does what it does faster and better. Who needs a .308 sniper when you got an anti-material.
Honestly , Fallout New Vegas would be kinda forgettable if not for the badass DLC. 3's DLC wasn't very good, IME.
If keep walking around in the same uneventful world practically unchanged is your idea of good, great. Not for me.
I thought Liberty Prime was base game story.
In the end...I picked House. I was going to pick Independant for the entire playthrough but then...reconsidered. Sure, my character was The Wasteland Messiah. Maximum positive karma, killed Cesar. Yet - the character had no experience in leading and maintaining a society. And would sitting on my butt for most of the time really fit? After all, at the end of the game, you are as much of a demi-god as one can be, literally pointing my finger at people will make them explode while being nigh-immortal in the power armor. Is such a being the right one to sit around and rule?
By siding with house, the control is given to House, a man with hundreds of years of experience who only did what's best for the strip. He allows the NCR to further dwell in the Mojave, allowing them to further do good. Most of all, you are his right and free to to what you choose. You still control House as you have the power to kill him immediately. Yet you are allowed to wander around and continue doing good, just as you did all the time before. House offers control and safety for the entire region and you, as a demi-god, the Courier, assure that all goes into the right direction.
...oh, and the Brotherhood can really screw themselves. All the work and they give you an outdated, almost broken power armor? On top of not being true Brotherhood of Steel, but rather a bunch of yesterday outcasts? Yeah...knock knock, your end has come, say hello to my Tesla friend.
It has been speculated that you as a character WERE a Powersuit pilot, and that was why you get woken, they needed a old soldier thawed out to help out, "Buck Rogers" style. And that you have the ability to make different suit parts work together just makes you more bad-ass so anyone gets mad at you is in trouble as you go all Iron Man on them.
Automatically Appended Next Post: "Heavy boots of lead, fills his victims full of dread"
House was the man with the plan, the Courier is a man of action. The Courier killing house is the worst outcome. Anybody who built themself with 10 intelligence was only fooling themself(snarf snarf)
In theory NCR is the good and Legion is bad. In practice they are both the same, maybe Legion even leading.
NCR:pro-different people, as long as they can use and abuse them. Expansion/war hungry, to cover up their inequal practices. Oppress with laws, unequal, 'not knowing the history'
Legion; Supposedly anti-LGBT, but in practice not really(source Veronica) Keeps trade going, only butchers 'NCR and proud types', scumbags, and enough to make a statement. The town they destoryed near Novak was a scum-hole. They buy slaves from people who SELL them, and prisoners(NCR/gangs).
I didn't really get that legion was as bad as Ulyesses made them out to be. The White Legs were tools that needed to be butchered after everything, to make them obedient, more than just butchers who didn't know how to survive, except by scavenging, AKA worthless. I have a feeling Ulyesses may have been the only worthwhile Twisted Hair.
Caeser read the history, wanted to start over from scratch.
If they were that bad there would be no empire to rule. Maybe they are, and it didn't come across as clear as it was supposed to. Maybe it is a game
The Dead Horses and Sorrows would have fit into the legion just fine b/c they could survive(the 'survivalist' allowed them to). It was the fact they allied with the New Canaanites that got them death ordered. The White Legs were tools that didn't know they were already dead, as stated above.
I love Fallout New Vegas, nothing about 3 was worth thinking about.
In the end...I picked House. I was going to pick Independant for the entire playthrough but then...reconsidered. Sure, my character was The Wasteland Messiah. Maximum positive karma, killed Cesar. Yet - the character had no experience in leading and maintaining a society. And would sitting on my butt for most of the time really fit? After all, at the end of the game, you are as much of a demi-god as one can be, literally pointing my finger at people will make them explode while being nigh-immortal in the power armor. Is such a being the right one to sit around and rule?
By siding with house, the control is given to House, a man with hundreds of years of experience who only did what's best for the strip. He allows the NCR to further dwell in the Mojave, allowing them to further do good. Most of all, you are his right and free to to what you choose. You still control House as you have the power to kill him immediately. Yet you are allowed to wander around and continue doing good, just as you did all the time before. House offers control and safety for the entire region and you, as a demi-god, the Courier, assure that all goes into the right direction.
Thoughts?
...and really, who ever seriously chooses Legion?
I chose legion once.
It was surprisingly fun, but woefully under developped.
In the end...I picked House. I was going to pick Independant for the entire playthrough but then...reconsidered. Sure, my character was The Wasteland Messiah. Maximum positive karma, killed Cesar. Yet - the character had no experience in leading and maintaining a society. And would sitting on my butt for most of the time really fit? After all, at the end of the game, you are as much of a demi-god as one can be, literally pointing my finger at people will make them explode while being nigh-immortal in the power armor. Is such a being the right one to sit around and rule?
By siding with house, the control is given to House, a man with hundreds of years of experience who only did what's best for the strip. He allows the NCR to further dwell in the Mojave, allowing them to further do good. Most of all, you are his right and free to to what you choose. You still control House as you have the power to kill him immediately. Yet you are allowed to wander around and continue doing good, just as you did all the time before. House offers control and safety for the entire region and you, as a demi-god, the Courier, assure that all goes into the right direction.
Thoughts?
...and really, who ever seriously chooses Legion?
I chose legion once.
It was surprisingly fun, but woefully under developped.
Legion was the most unique, that's for sure. All the others more or less play out the same exact way.
It's only the NCR rangers, and it's relatively late game.[/img]
NRC Elite Ranger armor can be obtained relatively early on and usually is a mid-game option. Lategame, you just use Power Armor.
Huh, I didn't get to it for a while. Although that could be because I was firmly NCR and didn't go around killing rangers for their armour or anything. I had to wait until I had access to the NCR vault thing, and not having any guides (or the DLC) my first playthrough meant I didn't get it until mid-late game. I used that until I got the stealth armour mk.II, and then the elite armour, in which case I carried both around like the hoarder I am.
In the end...I picked House. I was going to pick Independant for the entire playthrough but then...reconsidered. Sure, my character was The Wasteland Messiah. Maximum positive karma, killed Cesar. Yet - the character had no experience in leading and maintaining a society. And would sitting on my butt for most of the time really fit? After all, at the end of the game, you are as much of a demi-god as one can be, literally pointing my finger at people will make them explode while being nigh-immortal in the power armor. Is such a being the right one to sit around and rule?
By siding with house, the control is given to House, a man with hundreds of years of experience who only did what's best for the strip. He allows the NCR to further dwell in the Mojave, allowing them to further do good. Most of all, you are his right and free to to what you choose. You still control House as you have the power to kill him immediately. Yet you are allowed to wander around and continue doing good, just as you did all the time before. House offers control and safety for the entire region and you, as a demi-god, the Courier, assure that all goes into the right direction.
Thoughts?
...and really, who ever seriously chooses Legion?
I chose legion once.
It was surprisingly fun, but woefully under developped.
Legion was the most unique, that's for sure. All the others more or less play out the same exact way.
And it was going to be a lot more developed too, but they didn't have the time (goddamit, bethesda!).
Ever wondered how Boone's wife was sold with a marksman look out. How did the seller meet the buyer? The unarmed Legion corpses at the bridge show a small group of legion tried to make direct contact with Novak. Revenge for that(Boone killed them)? Did the old lady make contact before the deaths?
Why were Powder Gangers(NCR escapees) Legion(NCR's unfriend) and NCR(shoot first) all at Nipton? NCR had New Vegas for that.
It's only the NCR rangers, and it's relatively late game.[/img]
NRC Elite Ranger armor can be obtained relatively early on and usually is a mid-game option. Lategame, you just use Power Armor.
Huh, I didn't get to it for a while. Although that could be because I was firmly NCR and didn't go around killing rangers for their armour or anything. I had to wait until I had access to the NCR vault thing, and not having any guides (or the DLC) my first playthrough meant I didn't get it until mid-late game. I used that until I got the stealth armour mk.II, and then the elite armour, in which case I carried both around like the hoarder I am.
In the end...I picked House. I was going to pick Independant for the entire playthrough but then...reconsidered. Sure, my character was The Wasteland Messiah. Maximum positive karma, killed Cesar. Yet - the character had no experience in leading and maintaining a society. And would sitting on my butt for most of the time really fit? After all, at the end of the game, you are as much of a demi-god as one can be, literally pointing my finger at people will make them explode while being nigh-immortal in the power armor. Is such a being the right one to sit around and rule?
By siding with house, the control is given to House, a man with hundreds of years of experience who only did what's best for the strip. He allows the NCR to further dwell in the Mojave, allowing them to further do good. Most of all, you are his right and free to to what you choose. You still control House as you have the power to kill him immediately. Yet you are allowed to wander around and continue doing good, just as you did all the time before. House offers control and safety for the entire region and you, as a demi-god, the Courier, assure that all goes into the right direction.
Thoughts?
...and really, who ever seriously chooses Legion?
I chose legion once.
It was surprisingly fun, but woefully under developped.
Legion was the most unique, that's for sure. All the others more or less play out the same exact way.
And it was going to be a lot more developed too, but they didn't have the time (goddamit, bethesda!).
Yeah, I liked the ending to the legion (well, the epilogue) kinda threw me for a loop, because while it was barbaric, is was still order, more than the NCR was able to impose in the vegas area. I liked the legion ending, but I feel none of the endings what I'd have really wanted in vegas. Maybe House for the true independence, but that's it I think.
Order, perhaps, but is giving up any independence or control really worth it? In my eyes the legion is no better than barbarians, who rape, kill, take slaves, and treat women as property. They shun many drugs and other health related thing that save lives. They keep things safe, but at what cost?
With house, he isn't really doing what's best for the strip, but what's best for him. He's a business man, who treats the strip as his little plaything, trying to bring back the past he misses so much. He is a sad creature, and not one fit to lead the Mojave. And he isn't even in control of the strip. The only thing he truly controls is his little tower. He is blind to almost anything that isn't within his sights. Many conspire against him, with him being blind to their machinations. Even with you to stop them, you are not immortal. The courrior will not be their forever to clean up his messes. And he, like ceaser, is just another dictator.
Really there is no "correct" path, just a choice between various levels of bad. IMO either NCR or independent is the way to go, although it depends on who your character is. My character endned up being a literal genius and outstanding leader, so I can see him leading for a time. Maybe work out a trade deal with the NCR, make peace with them. Make changes to unite the whole of the Mojave, so that they will never have the fear of instability again. Make a permanent truce with the NCR, they recognize the Mojave's sovereignty, and the mojave will act as another (allied) country. And maybe try and expose the corrupted officials for who they are.
In New Vegas, I sided with House. He actually had a plan, a vision, one that would lead the people in New Vegas to a better life. True, he would be a tyrant (his way or the highway), but a largely benign one that is genuinely interested in improving things. More importantly, he also had the tools, the knowledge, and the resources to do it. The NCR follows the old American Way too much: expand, absorb, exploit (Manifest Destiny and all that), as long as they're the stronger, they'll continue to devour the weaker into the NCR. The Legion, while bringing order to their lands, never struck me as being a lasting thing. I simply never could believe that the Legion would truly survive for long after Caesar's death. Sure, Lanius might hold it together out of sheer terror and fear, but there would be no real growth under Lanius.
JNC wrote: Ever wondered how Boone's wife was sold with a marksman look out. How did the seller meet the buyer? The unarmed Legion corpses at the bridge show a small group of legion tried to make direct contact with Novak. Revenge for that(Boone killed them)? Did the old lady make contact before the deaths?
Why were Powder Gangers(NCR escapees) Legion(NCR's unfriend) and NCR(shoot first) all at Nipton? NCR had New Vegas for that.
It was a very curious situation. I liked Boome well enough I kept him as a partner for my playthrough(or what I played of it anyway).
JNC wrote: Ever wondered how Boone's wife was sold with a marksman look out. How did the seller meet the buyer? The unarmed Legion corpses at the bridge show a small group of legion tried to make direct contact with Novak. Revenge for that(Boone killed them)? Did the old lady make contact before the deaths?
Why were Powder Gangers(NCR escapees) Legion(NCR's unfriend) and NCR(shoot first) all at Nipton? NCR had New Vegas for that.
It was a very curious situation. I liked Boome well enough I kept him as a partner for my playthrough(or what I played of it anyway).
We already know that the Legion are very good at infiltration, so I doubt it was anything as simple as the legion waltz in declaring themselves and get it over and done with. It's possible that she met several different contacts who were under the guise of wanderers looking to stay at the hotel, and she knew the schedules of the lookouts, where any blind spots might be, perhaps even helped the Legion smuggle her out, using who she was the throw off anyone's suspicions. I think the legion dead on the bridge were unconnected, and simply where a raiding party may have tried their luck.
The whole Nipton scenario is explained in-game, I believe.
shasolenzabi wrote: It has been speculated that you as a character WERE a Powersuit pilot, and that was why you get woken, they needed a old soldier thawed out to help out, "Buck Rogers" style. And that you have the ability to make different suit parts work together just makes you more bad-ass so anyone gets mad at you is in trouble as you go all Iron Man on them.
Automatically Appended Next Post: "Heavy boots of lead, fills his victims full of dread"
The leaked Kotaku script has the male character being an ex-soldier, so yes it is plausible that they would have been a powered armoured one (at least in the original games by the time of the war a good number of the military was equipped with Power Armour, with it being the National Guard that still wore Combat Armour).
On the ending.
House, whilst saying that he has a plan, is repeatedly talked about as being a man of the Old World. He's one of the guys who made the world like it is in the first place. Any grand plans he have could be all talk and bluster and mired in the ideals of a world now gone. Sure he says he'll have man on the moon, but that could be all sales talk, or him thinking that the world will just roll over for him. ...He does have a massive ego remember.
Canonically I think that Obsidian's going to go for the Independent ending. The Legion lost out in Van Buren and in the next game you were going to encounter the rest of the faction now at war with a religious sect made up of those fringe tribes and those who resented the Legion. The NCR are spent, having lost the majority of their forces even before New Vegas. Better for them to go home and lick their wounds instead of taking more territory that they can't hold (and to have a neutral buffer state between them and the Legion in the meantime).
Frankly have New Vegas independent is more interesting for the story. They're a new faction in that area of the wasteland not directly tied to one side or the other. In time they'll probably move away from the Legion, but I can see them not being too happy with the NCR given that they wanted to control them. See the Independent ending says that New Vegas falls into a state of anarchy, but that eventually it rises again to be a power in the wasteland. The game would be a bit pointless if the city became just another place like New Aroyo, which still with power within the faction wasn't as much of a driving force.
...And well the game's whole point was letting go of the past, letting New Vegas rise without ties to the older factions or house would permit that.
Just as long as by the time the next game comes the NCR hasn't recessed anymore... Though like I said Black Isle's plot for Fallout 5 had you going into former Legion territory and eventually further East till you eventually encountered the Hounds of Hecate warring and assimilating what remained of the Legion (and for all the Legion are called barbaric the Hounds are a band of seriously pissed off Tribals...). * Black Isle wanted to include the Legion in Van Buren, but didn't have the time to block them out, as was the case with New Vegas. The whole Hecate thing was supposed to be in Van Buren too, but they thought it detract from the NCR/Legion/Brotherhood war. ...Implying then that if Obsidian are following Van Buren's plot that we may not have seen the last of the Legion.
“
Nipton was a wicked place, debased and corrupt. It served all comers, as long as they paid. Profligate troops, Powder Gangers, men of the Legion such as myself. The people here didn't care. It was a town of whores. For a pittance, the town agreed to lead those it had sheltered into a trap. Only when I sprang it did they realize they were caught inside it, too.
”— Vulpes Inculta
Stripped from the wiki, a pretty damning statement
No infiltration required, thus the Novak dead more than likely were unarmed when killed. Whether before or after, I know not, but I wouldn't walk up to a place I knew snipers were looking out at. They were more than likely under Vulpes Inculta's command, so....
Boone is the trained suspicious type to be aware of infiltrators, I don't think Legion expected Boone's murderousness.
Why couldn't I sellout Veronica to NCR, if I could enslave Gannon to Legion?
---
I disagree, The House was an American HERO. The Courier is a mailman. House saved how many people, the wasteland has a population thanks to that great man.
Co'tor Shas wrote: Order, perhaps, but is giving up any independence or control really worth it? In my eyes the legion is no better than barbarians, who rape, kill, take slaves, and treat women as property. They shun many drugs and other health related thing that save lives. They keep things safe, but at what cost?
With house, he isn't really doing what's best for the strip, but what's best for him. He's a business man, who treats the strip as his little plaything, trying to bring back the past he misses so much. He is a sad creature, and not one fit to lead the Mojave. And he isn't even in control of the strip. The only thing he truly controls is his little tower. He is blind to almost anything that isn't within his sights. Many conspire against him, with him being blind to their machinations. Even with you to stop them, you are not immortal. The courrior will not be their forever to clean up his messes. And he, like ceaser, is just another dictator.
Really there is no "correct" path, just a choice between various levels of bad. IMO either NCR or independent is the way to go, although it depends on who your character is. My character endned up being a literal genius and outstanding leader, so I can see him leading for a time. Maybe work out a trade deal with the NCR, make peace with them. Make changes to unite the whole of the Mojave, so that they will never have the fear of instability again. Make a permanent truce with the NCR, they recognize the Mojave's sovereignty, and the mojave will act as another (allied) country. And maybe try and expose the corrupted officials for who they are.
Yeah, for all the order and a "special" sort of "civilization" that the legion brings, it's probably the worst choice. I do like they attempted to make no ending a "good" ending, but it just feels like you made everything worse than when you started.
The NCR and Leigon are traps to fall into. Kimble Caeser and House are the leaders.
What choices did your Courier make
Did you murder House, Brutus?
Did you nuke anybody? (Nuked em both b/c blood and fire is all they know. Give what they want?
Do you think a wandering mailmail settled down, or faded away.
Did your Courier deliver a detonation device off-screen, How smart was that?
Did Elija tell you you were greedy (just like him)? Was it true?
Did you listen to what everyone around thought of your character? Were you really important ?
Is the comic relief that is Old World Blues part of your cannon?
Also do you think the rest of the world had their own Mr House to think about them while their leaders killed them.
I just want to mention that I used Elite Riot Gear for my late game. Never even bothered with the Super-duper Enclave Power Armor. I just liked my Riot gear.
Also, most of the Ranger/Riot Gear Helmets can be worn WITH the 1st Recon Beret you get from Boone. So with the ERG Helmet and the Beret you can have +3 PER
JNC wrote: The NCR and Leigon are traps to fall into. Kimble Caeser and House are the leaders.
What choices did your Courier make
Did you murder House, Brutus? Kept House alive, but powerless. Had Boone kill ceaser, because he deserved that revenge for what happened to him.
Did you nuke anybody? (Nuked em both b/c blood and fire is all they know. Give what they want? No, because (aside from being a tremendous loss of life), those were mostly civillan targets.
Do you think a wandering mailmail settled down, or faded away. Kept wandering, because that's all my character knew. Although the epilogue had him traveling west, I like to think he went east, to discover something new, as well as to think about everything that has happened to him
Did your Courier deliver a detonation device off-screen, How smart was that? He deliverd it yes, but did he know what he was doing? No. A terrible thing, but not something he could have predicted.
Did Elija tell you you were greedy (just like him)? Was it true? Greedy? Perhaps, but greed is only bad when you allow it to overtake your humanity. He saved thousands of lives, and never asked for a reward. Not recognition was needed. Simply the act of doing so was enough.
Did you listen to what everyone around thought of your character? Were you really important ? Important in many peoples lives, either as some sort of savior, or their worst nightmare. He made an impression and then left.
Is the comic relief that is Old World Blues part of your cannon? Yes, more than anything I can say yes to. OWB was, without a doubt, my favorite DLC, (which is hard, because I loved them all) The wastelands of fallout were always silly, bizare, strange. OWBs was only a reflection of that. And it greatly reminded me of old sci-fi comics and movies too, so it fit perfectly, IMO.
Also do you think the rest of the world had their own Mr House to think about them while their leaders killed them. Not quite sure what you are saying here?
I used to go with the NCR ending at first, but that felt wrong to me, as they simply annexed New Vegas and outsted the others.
I much prefer the Independent ending myself, which also fit how I played my character a lot. Plus, telling general not-MacArthur to feth off after the battle was a good moment.
Anything and everything in the games which isn't part of "Weird Wasteland" or similar easter egg events is canon. For the most part. ...Even the aliens DLC.
Which yes, as noted earlier in this thread, there's a hell of a lot of aliens concept art for Fallout 4, and an astronaut's suit is among the clothing items.
Though just because someone thinks an element of the games is silly doesn't make it non-canon. I don't see why Old World Blues shouldn't be? There was quite a bit of world building going on there about the Fallout United States, even if its just tidbits. Similarly Lonesome Road had little snippets like the Russians being on China's side in the War (though they at least still had an embassy in the United States). Overall the story of the New Vegas DLC was great, especially how they all linked in to each other and the base game (Ulysses of course being the most common link, but Big Mt was another one, which begs the question of if Old World Blues is somehow non-canon, then explain all the science behind the other DLC and all sorts of the things from the games).
Edit:
I liked the NCR quests and ending, but yes I don't think that its the "correct" one for the reasons previously stated. Now it would have been nice if more Idependent quests existed rather than jumping on the back of NCR ones, though the same could be said of the lack of development for the other factions in general (*cough* screw you Bethesda for only giving Obsidian a year to make the game *cough* *splutter* Ah screw it. As long as after New Vegas the NCR aren't in serious decline I think I'll be fine. With Kimball hedging his bets on the Mojave campaign he'll be out of the president's seat. The NCR's spent its forces as well, so'll need to consolidate their power and rebuild (though the Legion's pretty much screwed). In that vacuum New Vegas could rise, though whether or not it becomes more than a city state is yet to be seen (they at least have the resources and man-power to parly a truce with the other factions).
I liked OWB a lot actually. I considered it the effect of them being brains in jars for decades and slowly going more and more insane. Like it could be deliberately about how futile trying to make somewhere like that would be.
Well Mobius did deliberately erode their sanity and perception of the world remember. Before that they were America's great minds, admittedly a bit unhinged through their transformation into brains in jars. Were it not for him they'd just be mad scientists bent on "fixing" the problems that they weren't able to solve before the War. Even he's gone mad as well, so its not as if his interfering was the route of the issue (though I bet before he screwed over the rest of them that they were pulling crap like that on each other already). Bearing in mind that they didn't become robots instantly, rather they were the last of the surviving scientists from after the War (though I'm guessing they killed the others at some point), so they had a while to be fairly depressed before they transcended human emotions. =P
Yes though, what's the line: "On the night of October 23rd, 2077, the scientists received an answer that put all their questions to rest. And the great stone in the middle of the Big Empty lay untouched, filled with countless technological wonders... Wonders that, in the end, had been answers to the wrong question." sums up the pre-war world finely.
In the end...I picked House. I was going to pick Independant for the entire playthrough but then...reconsidered. Sure, my character was The Wasteland Messiah. Maximum positive karma, killed Cesar. Yet - the character had no experience in leading and maintaining a society. And would sitting on my butt for most of the time really fit? After all, at the end of the game, you are as much of a demi-god as one can be, literally pointing my finger at people will make them explode while being nigh-immortal in the power armor. Is such a being the right one to sit around and rule?
By siding with house, the control is given to House, a man with hundreds of years of experience who only did what's best for the strip. He allows the NCR to further dwell in the Mojave, allowing them to further do good. Most of all, you are his right and free to to what you choose. You still control House as you have the power to kill him immediately. Yet you are allowed to wander around and continue doing good, just as you did all the time before. House offers control and safety for the entire region and you, as a demi-god, the Courier, assure that all goes into the right direction.
Thoughts?
...and really, who ever seriously chooses Legion?
Late response but I've done every single one and I am caught at a three way. Legion in expanded lore has potential but it is the worst choice in my opinion, especially with the game being incomplete. The other three appeal to me but all three have their faults.
The NCR is a corrupt and expansionist country with terrible bureacracy, brahmin ranchers abusing their power, and are attempting to return to the same system that was part in destroying the world.
House offers reaching space and technological might but one simply needs to look towards places such as freeside, the sex machines, the snowglobes, and the after story implying some unpleasantries. Don't forgwt, this is an Old World man of power.
And then there is Independent which really depends on your courier. If you have a good karma, charismatic, and intellectual courier then it is a great option but even then it brings the question of who rules after he does (would Yes Man continue the same actions to a fault?) not to mention that the Followers of the apocalypse suffer being heavily strained.
It's one of my favorite parts of the game. It is a shame they didn't have more time to work on the game. A bigger Vegas, the Legion being fleshed out, a companion that likes the Legion, and some Independent quests would be nice.
Also, praise be Obsidian for returning to US the proper Enclave Power armor.
Raul was pro-Legion actually. Of course Ulysses was the real Legion companion before he was cut, but yes Raul does say positive things about the Legion. He came from their territory before they controlled it and says that it was a Raider ruled hellhole. With the Legion there at least a semblance of control was created, even if it meant losing other things. Given though that the Legion allows the average person to carry on their lives as normal, bar some extra rules, he doesn't see them as being that bad.
...Though given that he lived in a pre-war US annexed Mexico and then the 200 years that came after he has a different perspective on life and politics than regular wastelanders.
n0t_u wrote: I chose the legion for this run through... for the target for the nuke from the lonesome road.
I usually side with house or go independent.
I nuked everyone on my House playthough.
My logic was that as they were where their militaries, destroying those encampments would make it harder for the Legion and the NCR to attack Vegas, should House rise to power.
It annoyed me though that the only way to get the special Legion armor was by nuking the Legion, and same for the NCR.
It was like "oh hey, want this cool suit of armor to go with your allegiance to the owning faction? Better murder them!"
In the end...I picked House. I was going to pick Independant for the entire playthrough but then...reconsidered. Sure, my character was The Wasteland Messiah. Maximum positive karma, killed Cesar. Yet - the character had no experience in leading and maintaining a society. And would sitting on my butt for most of the time really fit? After all, at the end of the game, you are as much of a demi-god as one can be, literally pointing my finger at people will make them explode while being nigh-immortal in the power armor. Is such a being the right one to sit around and rule?
By siding with house, the control is given to House, a man with hundreds of years of experience who only did what's best for the strip. He allows the NCR to further dwell in the Mojave, allowing them to further do good. Most of all, you are his right and free to to what you choose. You still control House as you have the power to kill him immediately. Yet you are allowed to wander around and continue doing good, just as you did all the time before. House offers control and safety for the entire region and you, as a demi-god, the Courier, assure that all goes into the right direction.
Thoughts?
...and really, who ever seriously chooses Legion?
Late response but I've done every single one and I am caught at a three way. Legion in expanded lore has potential but it is the worst choice in my opinion, especially with the game being incomplete. The other three appeal to me but all three have their faults.
The NCR is a corrupt and expansionist country with terrible bureacracy, brahmin ranchers abusing their power, and are attempting to return to the same system that was part in destroying the world.
House offers reaching space and technological might but one simply needs to look towards places such as freeside, the sex machines, the snowglobes, and the after story implying some unpleasantries. Don't forgwt, this is an Old World man of power.
And then there is Independent which really depends on your courier. If you have a good karma, charismatic, and intellectual courier then it is a great option but even then it brings the question of who rules after he does (would Yes Man continue the same actions to a fault?) not to mention that the Followers of the apocalypse suffer being heavily strained.
It's one of my favorite parts of the game. It is a shame they didn't have more time to work on the game. A bigger Vegas, the Legion being fleshed out, a companion that likes the Legion, and some Independent quests would be nice.
Also, praise be Obsidian for returning to US the proper Enclave Power armor.
Yeah, I loved that suit.
It really bothered me how they called the suits of Enclave Power Armor in FO3 Advanced Power Armor Mark II, when they have a completely different appearance.
The Remnants power armor was more faithful.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: I nuked everyone on my House playthough.
My logic was that as they were where their militaries, destroying those encampments would make it harder for the Legion and the NCR to attack Vegas, should House rise to power.
I don't think House would appreciate irradiating the only land route between New Vegas and the NCR, I'm pretty sure he still wants them to visit without having to carve through a mountain or ride the colarado river or something.
The suits in Fallout 3 are Advanced Power Armour MkII, which wasn't used very much around the time of Fallout 2 (you only find a single suit of it, and the devs didn't even bother to give it a unique mesh). Instead Advanced Power Armour Mk1 isn the standard suit of the Enclave, renamed to Remnants Power Armour in New Vegas. So yes technically Fallout 3's armour should look like the Remnants, but only because the devs didn't think to give it a unique mesh. Rather its good that it doesn't... Similarly T-45d originally shared the same look as T-51b in Van Buren till 3 came around. Uh, so I don't see the problem as it fleshes out the world a bit more.
Least 4 will include Advanced Power Armour Mk1, though presumably in only small quantities. We'll have to see.
Wyrmalla wrote: The suits in Fallout 3 are Advanced Power Armour MkII, which wasn't used very much around the time of Fallout 2 (you only find a single suit of it, and the devs didn't even bother to give it a unique mesh). Instead Advanced Power Armour Mk1 isn the standard suit of the Enclave, renamed to Remnants Power Armour in New Vegas. So yes technically Fallout 3's armour should look like the Remnants, but only because the devs didn't think to give it a unique mesh. Rather its good that it doesn't... Similarly T-45d originally shared the same look as T-51b in Van Buren till 3 came around. Uh, so I don't see the problem as it fleshes out the world a bit more.
Least 4 will include Advanced Power Armour Mk1, though presumably in only small quantities. We'll have to see.
Actually we can't be sure. At least when it comes to Fallout 4, we know that t-60 is the most modern power armor (before war that is. It also is stronger than 51 but weaker than what we call Advance Power Armour Mark 1). That said, on an interesting note...
Spoiler:
Looks like they either redesigned their own Mark 2 design to look like the original or it's a new suit of armor entirely. Then again, for all we know Adv Mark 1 might be X-01 Mk2 now!
My problem with the Power Armor in 3 honestly mostly came down to the helmets of the new armors. Worst being Tesla for no unique design and Hellfire for the bizarro mini-eyes.
On an interesting note, unless they changed something you no longer can have 5 in each stat and then 5 extra to spend. Now, keep in mind that this is assuming they don't change it again but basing it on
Spoiler:
You start with 1 in each stat, and get 21 stats to spend meaning if you want to spread them even.... you'd get a 4 in each stat actually. So, unless they changed things around, your character is terrible in almost everything!
As per silly speculations, it seems normal crits might be going the way of the do do and Int might be about to be struck by a hardcore nerf! Or the game could come out and Int remains the godmode stat and charisma still the worst!
Well, the speech skill used to be pretty powerful, and was rolled into charisma... so I dont think itll be as much of a dumpstat as it was. And maybe you can gain special points through perks? You could in previous games, maybe itll be similar in FO4?
I'm going to miss pouring skill points into 9 Int, then braving the Deathclaws and immediately heading to the New Vegas medical clinic for the Int. implant before I got my first level up. Utterly ridiculous and entirely unnecessary, but I'll be damned if I'm going to waste the small handful of skill points I'd have missed getting without it!
hotsauceman1 wrote: So, who is going to just play the Wasteland Baron, go halfway through, set up several settlments and just make tons of caps?
Cause I am
First play-through is planned to be my second ever Mad Max playthrough. 2 Had the vehicle, 4 seems to possibly have dead wife and (maybe) child!
If the settlement mechanic is good enough (or a mod comes and makes it good/better), then I'll probably go crazy, play a character that's all about economics and another that's about founding a big faction.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Actually I hear from my co-worker who is a fallout junkie, that they both make an appearence alive
Is your friend's father a nintendo employee?
That said, I could be wrong. Yet again, this all comes down to speculation and it seems suspicious that you'd be able to create both your husband and wife while the child is apparently based on the parents and gets a random name. It seems like a lot of work for something that would only be for the start of the game. Then again, who knows? If there's a time frame where you are the "Lone Survivor" and it takes a while to find them, I might be able to play him believing his family is dead. Darn it just let me go Mad Max again!
Fallout 3 seemed to have it so anyone experiencing extreme radiation turned into a ghoul. There's a character in New Vegas who goes to the old Nuclear Test Site with that logic ...and dies of radiation poisoning.
Ah, you only become a ghoul if you have a rare genetic trait. Like one in ten thousand people hit by the nukes turned into them. Evidently Bethesda thought otherwise and wanted more zombies in their game for you to gun down. =P
Its a pity that Bethesda also dropped that the ghouls would all be dead within 100 years of the war. Sure they can technically live forever, but they were going to die off from their failing organs sooner rather than later. 200 years later we have ghouls walking (or more like running) as though there's nothing wrong with them. At least there's a mod out there which replaced their walk animations with a shambling zombie one, youknow because how else would a 220 year plus person walk?
Psienesis wrote: It's 1950s radiation, not true-science radiation. Ghouls exist for the same reason that Radscorpions exist. It's a mutation.
Their organs fail... big deal. They're sustained by the background radiation (and, in some cases, regenerated by it).
Actually false. All the mutations in Fallout are the result of the FEV (forced evolution virus) mutating after the lab suffered a direct hit from a nuke and released the virus on the entire wasteland. Super mutants are created by exposing human's to a form of the FEV as well.
Fallout 1 had a location called The Glow. This was where the FEV was created.
Or rather its both. The two leads of the original games had different opinions on the matter and it was never really concluded. Of course Bethesda may have their own ideas. Rather leave it up to any number of reasons, its not as if there couldn't be other reasons for mutation out there (perhaps something the Chinese dropped). It was pointed out that if it was entirely F.E.V. then it would have to be a diluted dosage or something as that does have the mild effect of making anything it touches sterile. =P
Remember that there's places like Big Mt out there too. Not all the mutants out there have to have been accidental...
Psienesis wrote: It's 1950s radiation, not true-science radiation. Ghouls exist for the same reason that Radscorpions exist. It's a mutation.
Their organs fail... big deal. They're sustained by the background radiation (and, in some cases, regenerated by it).
Actually false. All the mutations in Fallout are the result of the FEV (forced evolution virus) mutating after the lab suffered a direct hit from a nuke and released the virus on the entire wasteland. Super mutants are created by exposing human's to a form of the FEV as well.
Fallout 1 had a location called The Glow. This was where the FEV was created.
I know what The Glow is, I bought FO1 day-of-release. I also remember traipsing across the Boneyard.
FEV is not the responsible agent for Radscorpions. Or Molerats. Or even Ghouls.
Psienesis wrote: It's 1950s radiation, not true-science radiation. Ghouls exist for the same reason that Radscorpions exist. It's a mutation.
Their organs fail... big deal. They're sustained by the background radiation (and, in some cases, regenerated by it).
Actually false. All the mutations in Fallout are the result of the FEV (forced evolution virus) mutating after the lab suffered a direct hit from a nuke and released the virus on the entire wasteland. Super mutants are created by exposing human's to a form of the FEV as well.
Fallout 1 had a location called The Glow. This was where the FEV was created.
I know what The Glow is, I bought FO1 day-of-release. I also remember traipsing across the Boneyard.
FEV is not the responsible agent for Radscorpions. Or Molerats. Or even Ghouls.
Chris Avellone, Fallout Bible 1 - "The radscorpions are a result of a combination of radiation and the FEV virus, and Razlo in Shady Sands is correct - they were originally Emperor Scorpions that have grown... big."
Psienesis wrote: It's 1950s radiation, not true-science radiation. Ghouls exist for the same reason that Radscorpions exist. It's a mutation.
Their organs fail... big deal. They're sustained by the background radiation (and, in some cases, regenerated by it).
Actually false. All the mutations in Fallout are the result of the FEV (forced evolution virus) mutating after the lab suffered a direct hit from a nuke and released the virus on the entire wasteland. Super mutants are created by exposing human's to a form of the FEV as well.
Fallout 1 had a location called The Glow. This was where the FEV was created.
I know what The Glow is, I bought FO1 day-of-release. I also remember traipsing across the Boneyard.
FEV is not the responsible agent for Radscorpions. Or Molerats. Or even Ghouls.
Not quite. Ghouls depends on who you speak to. Chris Tyler and the FO Bible say it's a mix of radiation and FEV, Chris A. changed his opinion later on to only radiation. Radscorpion was explained as a combination as well although it's likely that Chris A.'s opinion has opted for pure radiation. At least by the Fallout Bible's interpretation, the vast majority of strange critters in the Wasteland are all at least in part due to the FEV. As per now.... maybe not?
Soladrin wrote: Chris Avellone, Fallout Bible 1 - "The radscorpions are a result of a combination of radiation and the FEV virus, and Razlo in Shady Sands is correct - they were originally Emperor Scorpions that have grown... big."
This!
And if it's in the good book, you bet your fething ass that it's canon!
http://fallout.wikia.com/ wrote:
The Fallout Bible is a collection of documents containing background material for the first Fallout games. They were compiled, written and released by Chris Avellone in 2002 on a semi-regular basis. According to Avellone, however, the Bible is no longer considered canon.[1]
It's no longer cannon and that is a good thing. It got rather bloated and kind of stupid near the end as it tried to come up with an explanation for everything.
Um, it is canon, rather its canon unless it contradicts something which came later. Bethesda chose to ignore a few things and reinterpret them, whereas Obsidian's Fallout game carried on as though 3 didn't happen for the most part. So nitpick the odd part which has since been debunked by Bethesda, but by and large all of that's still canon and Chris Avellone continued to follow it when working on New Vegas. =P
Fallout 3 happened and it will most likely influence the plot of Fallout 4 more than New Vegas. The Fallout Bible is not canon and will only influence future canon if/when Bethesda or Obsidian feel like including it or parts of it. Though I don't know if anyone at Bethesda has read it.
F4 will not happen either, because chances are Obsidian will again provide a superior, more in line, sequel that doesn't fiddle-fart around with what has been established.
nomotog wrote: It's no longer cannon and that is a good thing. It got rather bloated and kind of stupid near the end as it tried to come up with an explanation for everything.
Of course its not cannon. It does not use gunpowder.
Remembering why I didn't enter the Skyrim thread when that was a thing...
Bethesda read Chris Avellone's notes. They read the wiki too. How do we know this? Because the Fallout Bible included a load of canon not seen in the games. How do we know they read the wiki? Because unnamed characters turn up with the names the wiki came up with in 3.
Meh, I made my points, I don't see any gain in repeating myself over and over.=P
BrookM wrote: F4 will not happen either, because chances are Obsidian will again provide a superior, more in line, sequel that doesn't fiddle-fart around with what has been established.
If by 'superior' you mean 'boring as dirt, with no faction that is in any way sympathetic', then, yes, Obsidian is superior.
If I could have shipped the bomb from Megaton, reactivated it, and nuked New Vegas... there would be one more crater in Nevada.
The Auld grump - Hey, look over there! There's still more boring and flat! Whoops, my mistake... there was also yet another invisible wall in the way....
nomotog wrote: It's no longer cannon and that is a good thing. It got rather bloated and kind of stupid near the end as it tried to come up with an explanation for everything.
Of course its not cannon. It does not use gunpowder.
Hold right there let me shoot you with my canon.
I I am rather sure that most of the FEV stuff was just ignored from fallout 3 and past. It's used to make SM, but not everything. Fallout runs how it looks on the rules of pulp sci fi where things like radiation make giant scorpion.
Psienesis wrote: It's 1950s radiation, not true-science radiation. Ghouls exist for the same reason that Radscorpions exist. It's a mutation.
Their organs fail... big deal. They're sustained by the background radiation (and, in some cases, regenerated by it).
Actually false. All the mutations in Fallout are the result of the FEV (forced evolution virus) mutating after the lab suffered a direct hit from a nuke and released the virus on the entire wasteland. Super mutants are created by exposing human's to a form of the FEV as well.
Fallout 1 had a location called The Glow. This was where the FEV was created.
I know what The Glow is, I bought FO1 day-of-release. I also remember traipsing across the Boneyard.
FEV is not the responsible agent for Radscorpions. Or Molerats. Or even Ghouls.
Not quite. Ghouls depends on who you speak to. Chris Tyler and the FO Bible say it's a mix of radiation and FEV, Chris A. changed his opinion later on to only radiation. Radscorpion was explained as a combination as well although it's likely that Chris A.'s opinion has opted for pure radiation. At least by the Fallout Bible's interpretation, the vast majority of strange critters in the Wasteland are all at least in part due to the FEV. As per now.... maybe not?
As a side note, am I the only one that thinks that the courier is a ghoul/mutant?
TheAuldGrump wrote:
BrookM wrote: F4 will not happen either, because chances are Obsidian will again provide a superior, more in line, sequel that doesn't fiddle-fart around with what has been established.
If by 'superior' you mean 'boring as dirt, with no faction that is in any way sympathetic', then, yes, Obsidian is superior.
If I could have shipped the bomb from Megaton, reactivated it, and nuked New Vegas... there would be one more crater in Nevada.
The Auld grump - Hey, look over there! There's still more boring and flat! Whoops, my mistake... there was also yet another invisible wall in the way....
What on earth are you talking about, all the factions in new vegas have rational reasons to do wha they do.
Psienesis wrote: It's 1950s radiation, not true-science radiation. Ghouls exist for the same reason that Radscorpions exist. It's a mutation.
Their organs fail... big deal. They're sustained by the background radiation (and, in some cases, regenerated by it).
Actually false. All the mutations in Fallout are the result of the FEV (forced evolution virus) mutating after the lab suffered a direct hit from a nuke and released the virus on the entire wasteland. Super mutants are created by exposing human's to a form of the FEV as well.
Fallout 1 had a location called The Glow. This was where the FEV was created.
I know what The Glow is, I bought FO1 day-of-release. I also remember traipsing across the Boneyard.
FEV is not the responsible agent for Radscorpions. Or Molerats. Or even Ghouls.
Not quite. Ghouls depends on who you speak to. Chris Tyler and the FO Bible say it's a mix of radiation and FEV, Chris A. changed his opinion later on to only radiation. Radscorpion was explained as a combination as well although it's likely that Chris A.'s opinion has opted for pure radiation. At least by the Fallout Bible's interpretation, the vast majority of strange critters in the Wasteland are all at least in part due to the FEV. As per now.... maybe not?
As a side note, am I the only one that thinks that the courier is a ghoul/mutant?
n0t_u wrote: Yeh, cause the Mojave got a lot less fallout than other places thanks to House. Ghouls should be even rarer there than they were in Fo3.
And for the most part they are. They're just located in a handful of radiation hotspots, a Vault, an NCR outpost destroyed by a dirty bomb, a nuclear facility etc. There are no subway tunnels sprawling right across the Mojave, infested with Ghouls.
Psienesis wrote: It's 1950s radiation, not true-science radiation. Ghouls exist for the same reason that Radscorpions exist. It's a mutation.
Their organs fail... big deal. They're sustained by the background radiation (and, in some cases, regenerated by it).
Actually false. All the mutations in Fallout are the result of the FEV (forced evolution virus) mutating after the lab suffered a direct hit from a nuke and released the virus on the entire wasteland. Super mutants are created by exposing human's to a form of the FEV as well.
Fallout 1 had a location called The Glow. This was where the FEV was created.
I know what The Glow is, I bought FO1 day-of-release. I also remember traipsing across the Boneyard.
FEV is not the responsible agent for Radscorpions. Or Molerats. Or even Ghouls.
Not quite. Ghouls depends on who you speak to. Chris Tyler and the FO Bible say it's a mix of radiation and FEV, Chris A. changed his opinion later on to only radiation. Radscorpion was explained as a combination as well although it's likely that Chris A.'s opinion has opted for pure radiation. At least by the Fallout Bible's interpretation, the vast majority of strange critters in the Wasteland are all at least in part due to the FEV. As per now.... maybe not?
As a side note, am I the only one that thinks that the courier is a ghoul/mutant?
Why would the courier be a ghoul/mutant?
When visiting vault 22 it is mentioned that the fungus is extremely contageous to humans, but ghouls and assumedly mutants are immune to it, and coincidentaly the courier is just fine after being exposed to the fungi.
Psienesis wrote: It's 1950s radiation, not true-science radiation. Ghouls exist for the same reason that Radscorpions exist. It's a mutation.
Their organs fail... big deal. They're sustained by the background radiation (and, in some cases, regenerated by it).
Actually false. All the mutations in Fallout are the result of the FEV (forced evolution virus) mutating after the lab suffered a direct hit from a nuke and released the virus on the entire wasteland. Super mutants are created by exposing human's to a form of the FEV as well.
Fallout 1 had a location called The Glow. This was where the FEV was created.
I know what The Glow is, I bought FO1 day-of-release. I also remember traipsing across the Boneyard.
FEV is not the responsible agent for Radscorpions. Or Molerats. Or even Ghouls.
Not quite. Ghouls depends on who you speak to. Chris Tyler and the FO Bible say it's a mix of radiation and FEV, Chris A. changed his opinion later on to only radiation. Radscorpion was explained as a combination as well although it's likely that Chris A.'s opinion has opted for pure radiation. At least by the Fallout Bible's interpretation, the vast majority of strange critters in the Wasteland are all at least in part due to the FEV. As per now.... maybe not?
As a side note, am I the only one that thinks that the courier is a ghoul/mutant?
Why would the courier be a ghoul/mutant?
When visiting vault 22 it is mentioned that the fungus is extremely contageous to humans, but ghouls and assumedly mutants are immune to it, and coincidentaly the courier is just fine after being exposed to the fungi.
Interesting, could even be down to not being exposed enough as iirc it mentioned something like 10-20 days in one of the logs.
Or maybe the Courier IS infected, but it just has a long incubation period and doesn't set in until after the events of The Divide (Lonesome Road DLC and the end of the game).
That Luck 10 that the Courier has probably was something to do with it...
Hey at least the Elder Scrolls has the excuse about how you're characters super human because they're fated by the scrolls. Then again the Chosen One in Fallout 2 had some psychic backing too now didn't they?
IN your opinion, which game has better mods. Fallout 3? Or Fallout: New Vegas?
I think NV has the better mods. With fallout 3, my lightly modded game would crash about every 10 minutes. With NV my heavily modded game only crashed sometime when I went into certain buildings.
Both games have mods of their time. People cut their teeth on Fallout 3 then moved onto New Vegas with refined ideas. Similarly you could say the same with Morrowind and Oblivion or Skyrim and New Vegas. People get to know the engine better over time, for instance we didn't have all the optimization that Skyrim's mod have when Oblivion comes out.
All the Bethesda games have great mods out there, so like I said its down to how refined they are with the details I suppose. 3 had its big story mods, so did New Vegas, though I think there was a larger spectrum of modders for 3 (though that doesn't speak of the quality however). It should also be noted that New Vegas is currently the newest version of the Fallout series out, so its had more years for mods to come out for it than 3 and development was in tandem with Skyrim (many modders moved over to Skyrim, but some went back to New Vegas).
So... Uh... There's plenty of mods out for all of those games. You can see how the quality's improved over time as people learn the engines better and refine their skills with each game obviously. 4's been a long time coming, so I think we'll see a lot of modders being reinvigorated with the scene after stagnating for a while. It'll be nice to see some of the mods based around Skyrim's engine working in the Fallout setting, but ah, those are largely to do with the technical side of thing, so perhaps don't have the appeal to most as the 1001 gun mods. =P
Overlord Thraka wrote: IN your opinion, which game has better mods. Fallout 3? Or Fallout: New Vegas?
I think NV has the better mods. With fallout 3, my lightly modded game would crash about every 10 minutes. With NV my heavily modded game only crashed sometime when I went into certain buildings.
Depends, really. There are certain series of mods for both games (a Slavery mod for FO3 and the A World of Pain mod for FONV) that, to me, make the game. There's also a mod-series for FO3 that turn an aspect of the game into a base-building, community-raising, RTS game, though it's crazily unstable. When it works, though, you get to (have to) cut down the trees in the Capital Wastelands to gather wood to build walls and buildings, and recruit people from the Wastelands to come live in your new community... and defend it from Raiders.
