its his warlord trait. Assuming they dont change that to no longer grant fearless and do something else instead (auto rally akin to atsknf if fleeing, not fearless, which would suck ass)
Oguhmek wrote: So if you don't want to play Goffs and/or walkers you're gak out of luck then?
Meh.
Nothin says your guys have to painted goffs, but if you didn't want to run walkers you can do warbands....and that is just horible when I say it out loud.
I'm sorry, but until I get more info then what has been said about the orkurian then I am extremely disapoint.
Vineheart01 wrote: Ghaz better get a redo on his stats/rules or a severe price reduction. 2x that of a Warboss in MA and Stikk, insanely weaker because of no Stikk.
Dude if ghaz is able to be a warlord in the decorian he is bad arse.
2+ invul on every turn except turn 1. And 5+ fnp and eternal warrior.
All MAN can run and charge in his unit
All Orks are fearless
Where in ghaz profile does it say orks can be fearless.
His warlord trait is automatically prophet of waaagh! Which means all models with ere we go are fearless
Hey, atleast Ghaz is officially the best non SH/GCLoW. Making everything fearless for every turn post t2, having a 2+ invuln, letting MANz run. Sounds like a party to me .
its his warlord trait. Assuming they dont change that to no longer grant fearless and do something else instead (auto rally akin to atsknf if fleeing, not fearless, which would suck ass)
Didn't see that, got confused and was only looking at his special ability.
so no rumors on new units? odd. I mean orks technically already have 2 LoW but Ghazzy shouldnt be one and the stompa is way too expensive. Sorta expecting the naut's to shift over.
though i'd rather them just get the damage chart perks that supers get (immune to everything, only D3 damage instead of flat out dead on explode) than become supers themselves. They arent big enough to only field 1 of in my eyes, or nasty enough.
Bear in mind he has to be taken in his formation that includes 2 other warbosses, a nob unit, a big mek, and mad doc grotsnik. So he doesn't come cheap.
Oh holy crap he has to take the Council to be included?
....wow...there goes 1000pts right there. that formation is insanely expensive. Which is my beef with most of the ork formations, too big for minimum rquirements.
Hulksmash wrote: Decurion is included. Core is the Goff kill mob and warband formations. Waaagh every turn and if you have more than 10 models when you start a charge you get hammer of wrath.
What is the warbands formation like? What's it's requirements and it's bonuses.
If it has stayed them same then the orkurian just neutralized the pathetic bonuses it had....making it completely useless as an orkurian core. A decurian is supposed to give bonus rules to the formations in it, not make them obsolete.
But if they changed the warbands then their might be a chance it would be used.
Hulksmash wrote: Bear in mind he has to be taken in his formation that includes 2 other warbosses, a nob unit, a big mek, and mad doc grotsnik. So he doesn't come cheap.
At min council of waggh is 614pts of course you also want upgrades on those warbosses
Can someone see if the new updated Farsight Enclaves mentiones if Riptides may take signature systems? Since Mont'ka didn't mention it there was some debate about whether giving riptides earth caste pilot array was still legal. Knowing this would clear it up.
Oguhmek wrote: So if you don't want to play Goffs and/or walkers you're gak out of luck then?
Meh.
Edited: correction - so either you have to run walkers or 6 units of boyz?
If you don't run Meganobz (Bad Moons) a feth ton of Boyz (Goffs) or 3 kraptastic walkers (2 Deff Dredds and a Gorkanaut) then yes you are out of luck
For the curious:
The Goff Kill Mob costs 1055 points minimum (im working off of the old Gruk's Killmob so this may change slightly)
If you read the Goff Kill Mob, it seems to require a basic Warboss(60 points), a unit of Nobz, three units of Boyz, Gorkanaut, Killa Kan unit, and two Deff Dreads.
That's 749 points.
The Warband costs 524 minimum (with Nobz) or 590 (with Meganobz)
I think we know which is the better option.
The one where you don't have to take 60 Boyz minimum?
Thats where their price skyrockets. Bare boned warbosses are beyond useless. It was roughly 1kpts to give them all viability (pks, 'eavy armor, relic big choppa, etc). Could probably make it a little cheaper if everyone just had MA+PK but personally if i have enough warbosses to actually USE the relics i want to use them. it also leaves the kitbashing kreativity wide open. Ive wanted to make a two-headed warboss be the "Supa Cybork" warboss for awhile lol
The warband formation requires 6 boyz mobs, which is at least a 240 point tax (if you take MSU without any upgrades), which is doubly useless, since such boyz mobs don't do gak.
A trukk boyz mob with nob, bosspole and klaw is 144 points, which basically is the minimum viable boyz mob. Times 6 that is
864 points.
Then you need to add a Warboss, a Mek, a Nobs mob and some grots. Thats well over 1000 points.
That's a lot to pay for S3 HoW and getting to Waaagh every turn.
Pretty useless if you ask me. I'll stick to the CAD.
Warband with 5man nob squad+ council with 5man nob squad + min bully boyz is 1810 points. Dunno if you can fit the goff detachment in better, or how you can flip it around to fit, but I hope someone optimizes this at some point.
Oguhmek wrote: The warband formation requires 6 boyz mobs, which is at least a 240 point tax (if you take MSU without any upgrades), which is doubly useless, since such boyz mobs don't do gak.
A trukk boyz mob with nob, bosspole and klaw is 144 points, which basically is the minimum viable boyz mob. Times 6 that is
864 points.
Then you need to add a Warboss, a Mek, a Nobs mob and some grots. Thats well over 1000 points.
That's a lot to pay for S3 HoW and getting to Waaagh every turn.
Pretty useless if you ask me. I'll stick to the CAD.
Vineheart01 wrote: Thats where their price skyrockets. Bare boned warbosses are beyond useless. It was roughly 1kpts to give them all viability (pks, 'eavy armor, relic big choppa, etc). Could probably make it a little cheaper if everyone just had MA+PK but personally if i have enough warbosses to actually USE the relics i want to use them.
it also leaves the kitbashing kreativity wide open. Ive wanted to make a two-headed warboss be the "Supa Cybork" warboss for awhile lol
Warbosses are one of the ork codexs most cost efficient models. 60pts for what you get is great. You can either outfit them with bikes and pk or mega armor or leave them with a bc (5pts) and eavy armour (4pts) and they are still great value especially with fnp 5+ at toughness 5. That's str 8 ap5 and 4-5atk each.
Orks will be able to field either the Goff mob or horde and council with enough aux choices at 1650/1850 to be decent. 1500 not so much.
For people crying about the decorian seriously???
You can field a bike swarm with forgeworld
You can field a dread mob
You can field a decorian with all boyz
Or a mixed decorian with boyz and walkers
You can even field an all air armada formation.
All of the above are good lists wtf are you looking for?
A buggy swarm list?
Swampmist wrote: Warband with 5man nob squad+ council with 5man nob squad + min bully boyz is 1810 points. Dunno if you can fit the goff detachment in better, or how you can flip it around to fit, but I hope someone optimizes this at some point.
There is no point in bully boyz when they can't run or charge with ghaz. Only ghaz unit can move run and charge.
Stick with bikers and big guns.
The best thing with bully boyz is they were fearless which is redundant with ghaz ability and mad doc in the game.
Running the above list as you describe is over 100 Orks. It's basically a greentide but much more durable.
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Oguhmek wrote: IA8 is gone, so the FW lists are on their way out.
Since when has an ia8 book being out of print meaning it's on it's way out. In fact forgeworld already stated they are redoing that book.
Dreadmob is full of broken rules because its so old. I cant even find it anymore either. Also, i shouldnt have to goto FW to make a race playable. I dont care if orks become the new #1 in fact i dont want them to get that big a buff. I want their damn codex to do something and have flexibility so i can actually have FUN with them. Currently, its warbikers + manz missiles + lobbaz in every list. Nothing else even remotely stands a chance.
Ah, ok, my bad though ghaz let everyone do it. In that case, there are other good options. Is there a aux with mek gunz or lootas? Could be good having some backline for the massive wave of green you thow at your opponent...
Vineheart01 wrote: Dreadmob is full of broken rules because its so old. I cant even find it anymore either.
You do realize ghaz supplement has a dread mob formation? In fact it's one of the new formation bundles for preorder. Unless you want to use the forgeworld dreads which only one of them is decent in the first place.
Yes and ive ran that formation before. Its so ungodly expensive that its basically an entire list of armor. Meaning if you face people who dont have reliable AV its amazing as hell, but if you face someone who does they die in a heartbeat.
Our walkers are too expensive for what they do. ALL of them.
Timing on this is pretty perfect for me. This last month has been "Boss month" on my modeling and painting table.
I've finally decided to complete all my boss models and the table currently has a metal Ghaz, Grukk, 5 boss nobz, metal painboy, 2 metal bigmeks with kff, metal snikrot, and a plastic bigmek with shokk attack gun.
Our walkers are too expensive for what they do. ALL of them.
So true. I haven't run my walkers since 5th because of this. I have 9 Kans and 2 Dreds, all fully painted and magnitized. All dressed up and no where to go!
Some calculations done and it seems that if the Council hasn't been reworked it will be impossible to fit it and a usefull Ork Warband into 1850 pts. Barebones - possible, otherwise (with trukks, nobs in boy squads etc.) - no.
Vineheart01 wrote: Yes and ive ran that formation before. Its so ungodly expensive that its basically an entire list of armor. Meaning if you face people who dont have reliable AV its amazing as hell, but if you face someone who does they die in a heartbeat.
Our walkers are too expensive for what they do. ALL of them.
Again your arguing to argue.
Right now you can field decent army lists that consist of nearly every type of list
The dread mob is a decent list and does well because it is AV spam and makes your opponents anti infantry weapons useless. If you only face grav or melta spam then feel free and take morkanauts which gives a 5+ invul bubble to all your walkers within 6in. This decorian only makes that formation better by allowing your armour to move run and charge each turn.
But this decorian goes a long way to helping Orks with another fearless option, a Death Star option, and another durable MSU option. The only issue I have with the decorian is it's expensive and both core choices are both ~750 points. The council is base 614 pts without upgrades.
If your not playing 1650 or 1850+ games then it's very unwieldly.
Oguhmek wrote: Source? Customer service has said that "there are no plans" for a new IA8
I've read it online before and specifically recieved an email 3 months ago when I asked customer service about buzzgrobs stompa during the ITC debate. They replied to me with the typical email about the rules team is working on an update but a date is not available at this time for its release.
If you read the Goff Kill Mob, it seems to require a basic Warboss(60 points), a unit of Nobz, three units of Boyz, Gorkanaut, Killa Kan unit, and two Deff Dreads. That's 749 points.
Ok, thats significantly better. Still i dont want a Gorkanaught. I didnt want one when they came out with it and i dont want one now. Any way you look at it, both of these Core choices are lousy, not as lousy as Daemons, but about the same level as the Mont'ka ones for IG.
Seriously GW, you've done good Core choices before. The Reclamation Legion and Slaughtercult are both solid. Why? Because they have a low minimum and a high maximum and most (if not all) of the units in there are decent.
The Killmob and the Warband both have way to high of minimums for a Core choice, on top of needing to many types of units. Serously, i dont want that many walkers!!
You do realize ghaz supplement has a dread mob formation? In fact it's one of the new formation bundles for preorder. Unless you want to use the forgeworld dreads which only one of them is decent in the first place.
Do you realize that those aren't the same Dredds? The ones in IA8 have Ramshackle Beast and you can take small numbers of. Ghazy's Dred Mob is fething nuts on its requirments.
Theres a reason that Orks, competitively speaking, run either Bullyboyz+Blitz Brigade or Stompa+Vulcha Squad or Red Skull Kommandos. Or just yell sod it and spam Deffkoptas
The orkurian would've been improved if they said all dedicated trucks and boss nob pk were free then that would've been worth fielding (and able to fit in a 1850 list).
This orkurian right here is an apocalypse only thing....I am disapoint.
We can already waaagh every turn with 2 formations and get HoW on our S3 models. Whats the point of a decurion if it doesn't add a new ability? Just to get ghazzy a 2++ most the game ?
I was hoping for something our formations don't already do.
Hopefully there is something missng we don't know yet.
Swampmist wrote: ...2000 points is apoc now? Huh, guess Ive been playing wrong then.
It may as well be as far as tournaments are concerned. Casually speaking this should be not craptastic, but you cant make it work right unless you're playing in 2k points, as otherwise you're just to barebones.
Oguhmek wrote: Source? Customer service has said that "there are no plans" for a new IA8
I've read it online before and specifically recieved an email 3 months ago when I asked customer service about buzzgrobs stompa during the ITC debate. They replied to me with the typical email about the rules team is working on an update but a date is not available at this time for its release.
Ok, maybe thats changed then, lets hope so.
Anyway, I'm disappointed that the Necrons get a core formation that contain all useful units and is fairly flexible, and with a few essential upgrades can fit in around 700 points, while the Orks are stuck with either one particular play style, or well over 1000 points for the core formation - and then the bonuses are nowhere near the usefulness of the ones the Necrons get.
Orks really needed good stuff sice the codex is comparatively weak.
Do we have any ork formations that give options for how many units we can take? I have searched my supplements and looked over these rumours and it seems like every formations I have seen is always 3 of unit X and 6 of unit Y. Has that changed with this supplement or is there something that I am missing?
gungo wrote: The dread mob is a decent list and does well
HA! Ha ha ha. Ha. Ha ha ha ha ha ha. Ha ha ha.
Ha ha ha ha ha. Ha ha ha.
Ha.
No.
Ork walkers are overpriced, underpowered, and get glanced to death by everything.
Swampmist wrote: I still think mass fearless is good enough. Also, we have no idea what formations can fill an auxiliary. Might be something small there to help out.
Really i just see people cribbing the Formations to use alongside a CAD. Those Cores are way to restrictive and the Bonus just isn't worth it, unless you bring Ghazy. But really all of this is just bringing us back to our 4th ed book. Rememeber that? Virtually the entire codex was Fearless for a fair chunk of the game. Now we can do that again, if you bring all of this stuff you dont want.
If you read the Goff Kill Mob, it seems to require a basic Warboss(60 points), a unit of Nobz, three units of Boyz, Gorkanaut, Killa Kan unit, and two Deff Dreads.
That's 749 points.
Ok, thats significantly better. Still i dont want a Gorkanaught. I didnt want one when they came out with it and i dont want one now. Any way you look at it, both of these Core choices are lousy, not as lousy as Daemons, but about the same level as the Mont'ka ones for IG.
Seriously GW, you've done good Core choices before. The Reclamation Legion and Slaughtercult are both solid. Why? Because they have a low minimum and a high maximum and most (if not all) of the units in there are decent.
The Killmob and the Warband both have way to high of minimums for a Core choice, on top of needing to many types of units. Serously, i dont want that many walkers!!
You do realize ghaz supplement has a dread mob formation? In fact it's one of the new formation bundles for preorder. Unless you want to use the forgeworld dreads which only one of them is decent in the first place.
Do you realize that those aren't the same Dredds? The ones in IA8 have Ramshackle Beast and you can take small numbers of. Ghazy's Dred Mob is fething nuts on its requirments.
Theres a reason that Orks, competitively speaking, run either Bullyboyz+Blitz Brigade or Stompa+Vulcha Squad or Red Skull Kommandos. Or just yell sod it and spam Deffkoptas
The requirements on the formation don't matter it's a full list by itself. The only decent forgeworld dread is the mega dread the meka dread is garbage. Deff dreads and killa kans are exactly the same. And if you play with the misprinted buzzgrobs rule then a 500 point stompa is a good deal.
Competitve here is different we either see bike spam with the forgeworld bikerboss, buzzgrob stompa and man missiles, or greentide. I have never seen a kommando spam list and I occassionally run a 30 man squad of vulchas for gaks and giggles but they are not competitve. Deff Kopta spam is a remnant of 5th edition. However army wide fearless will do wonders making that msu list a lot more of a pain to deal with.
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the Signless wrote: Do we have any ork formations that give options for how many units we can take? I have searched my supplements and looked over these rumours and it seems like every formations I have seen is always 3 of unit X and 6 of unit Y. Has that changed with this supplement or is there something that I am missing?
gungo wrote: The dread mob is a decent list and does well
HA! Ha ha ha. Ha. Ha ha ha ha ha ha. Ha ha ha.
Ha ha ha ha ha. Ha ha ha.
Ha.
No.
Ork walkers are overpriced, underpowered, and get glanced to death by everything.
Laugh all you want but the dread mob was still one of the highest placing ork lists in tournaments.
I agree they can do with army wide ramshackle however move run and charge each turn with rerolls does help them a lot.
There is small changes to restrictions on certain formations but still specific units. But things like the Goff mob no longer require 20 models in each boy unit.
This new update to the supplement is just lazy copy paste with hardly any changes to the rules at all. This is the first decurion detachment where many of the auxiliary choices are without any formation, because they didn't already have one.
My second complaint would be the rules. The boss is watchin and tha biggest and da best is just punishing. The +2 to the mob rule table hurts so much! Your only option to avoid that is to make Ghazkull the warlord as he has his warlord trait fixed. The only way to do that is to bring in the council of waagh it seems.
If waaagh every turn would be such a good rule, then everyone would choose the ork warband formation from the Ork codex. There are hardly any benefits in this supplement that makes it better than the CAD-detachment with objective secured.
By the way. I emailed Forgeworld in january this year about the missing IA8. They did reply that they had no plans for a new edition of IA8 at the moment. I don't remember exactly how the worded the rest, but they said something about that they maybe would create a new IA book with the orks in it. I guess that the Elysian drop troops doesn't sell so good.
Brokk wrote: This new update to the supplement is just lazy copy paste with hardly any changes to the rules at all. This is the first decurion detachment where many of the auxiliary choices are without any formation, because they didn't already have one.
My second complaint would be the rules. The boss is watchin and tha biggest and da best is just punishing. The +2 to the mob rule table hurts so much! Your only option to avoid that is to make Ghazkull the warlord as he has his warlord trait fixed. The only way to do that is to bring in the council of waagh it seems.
If waaagh every turn would be such a good rule, then everyone would choose the ork warband formation from the Ork codex. There are hardly any benefits in this supplement that makes it better than the CAD-detachment with objective secured.
Um... Where are you getting a +2 to the table from? No-one has said anything about it. Also, the warband is worse because you can't have Ghazghkull in it, who is the only one who makes use of it.
The only cool thing with the boss is watching is if you win a challenge you reroll to wound for the rest of the game. However being forced to challenge is still lame. I agree
Fearless is the only way to ignore mob rule.
Your choices is either ghaz, banner relic, or bullyboyz.
Also trukk boyz really aren't that good because when the trukk explodes as they usually do they always take out several boyz which is rough considering a trukk only holds 12 boyz Max.
I would of been happy with the decorian giving free upgrades to all boyz. Eavy armour is great if it wasn't so costly.
I'm still wondering what the other two new formations are...
Swampmist wrote: Ok, did I miss something? When did those rules pop up, wut?
Its the Waaagh Ghazy FOC specific rules, they both suck. Im not sure if they are in the new Orkcurion, but since im never gonna run it, i dont really care either way.
They are not, the orcurion just gives waaagh every turn and a better version of the HoW thing, which doesnt require you to roll a 10+ to charge. Dunno where you guys are coming from as such .
If only the Ork bonuses were half as good as the ones Space Wolves got. Imagine if Orks got even one of the bonuses of the Iron Wolf Formation- free vehicle upgrades, or move 12 and disembark, or +6 for flat out moves. Orks get none, while Space Wolves get ALL THREE
MajorWesJanson wrote: If only the Ork bonuses were half as good as the ones Space Wolves got. Imagine if Orks got even one of the bonuses of the Iron Wolf Formation- free vehicle upgrades, or move 12 and disembark, or +6 for flat out moves. Orks get none, while Space Wolves get ALL THREE
Ya the rules are nice, but have you seen the pre reqs to get those???
Swampmist wrote: ...2000 points is apoc now? Huh, guess Ive been playing wrong then.
500pts is apoc now as there effectively is no difference. You use fliers, superheavies, formations, and can ignore factions and the CAD in both since 7th edition hit.
So far, nothing is making me want to buy this softback gack. These gits are so detached from their player base that they don't realize where their own sales come from.
You would think they know how to sell models, it's as simple as giving models stupid good rules right? Today shows that they don't even understand this concept. I will not buy this supliment or this bundle because they suck, a grot wouldn't even digest this squig dung.
I don't try to encourage people to illegally download scans of these books, but man I am awfully tempted.
We get a hastily typed paragraph from a guy who reportedly has the book.
He says what the base decurion is, and how to get Ghaz in it
We have NO IDEA what the new Warband benefits are, NO IDEA about the three "never before seen" formations...and it seems all the existing ones have been changed...
We get a hastily typed paragraph from a guy who reportedly has the book.
He says what the base decurion is, and how to get Ghaz in it
We have NO IDEA what the new Warband benefits are, NO IDEA about the three "never before seen" formations...and it seems all the existing ones have been changed...
And it's "unplayable garbage." Already.
Y'all are frankly amazing.
Maybe we are being too hasty, for all we know we have been fed lies. Only time will tell. But this is a forum, and this is the internet, we will freak out.
If we are proved wrong then we will breath a sigh of relief and laugh about this later. But we are ork players...just like csm, or other such codex players we grab at whatever rumor we get.
Brokk wrote: This new update to the supplement is just lazy copy paste with hardly any changes to the rules at all. This is the first decurion detachment where many of the auxiliary choices are without any formation, because they didn't already have one.
My second complaint would be the rules. The boss is watchin and tha biggest and da best is just punishing. The +2 to the mob rule table hurts so much! Your only option to avoid that is to make Ghazkull the warlord as he has his warlord trait fixed. The only way to do that is to bring in the council of waagh it seems.
If waaagh every turn would be such a good rule, then everyone would choose the ork warband formation from the Ork codex. There are hardly any benefits in this supplement that makes it better than the CAD-detachment with objective secured.
Um... Where are you getting a +2 to the table from? No-one has said anything about it. Also, the warband is worse because you can't have Ghazghkull in it, who is the only one who makes use of it.
Thats been a thing ever since Ghazzy's supp came out. Its played off like its a good thing, but it completely screws over any nonfearless Ghazzy Supp units. If it was +2 modifier on the chart, then 1-3 would auto fail outside combat, 4-5 requires a character, and 6 is the 10+ numbers. If it was +2 to the die roll (which it is, bare with me here) then it would be impossible to get the Born to Fight result (1s), Breaking Heads (2-3) would be only possible on a 1, and 2+ requires 10+ models. In a supplement thats heavy melee based. It shafts you so badly. Both ways are terrible for the opposite reasons. Its the main reason ive never tried to run a Ghazzy Sup list, nonfearless models might as well not have mob rule since unless theyre a huge unit (which is almost exclusive to boyz, kommando formation, or stormboy formation) they will almost never get it.
If it was +/-2 to the die roll in favor of the ork player's decision, it would be amazing and pretty much prevent a failed morale. Though the D3+3 hits still sucks, i'd take that over basically never failing morale/pinning.
And to the_scotsman, tbh we probably are being a bit hasty but its kinda justified since the last codex was an overall NERF to an already old and outdated/somewhat useless codex. GW basically killed any hope ork players have that we'll get a good codex again. Im still hoping they prove us wrong though.
We get a hastily typed paragraph from a guy who reportedly has the book.
He says what the base decurion is, and how to get Ghaz in it
We have NO IDEA what the new Warband benefits are, NO IDEA about the three "never before seen" formations...and it seems all the existing ones have been changed...
And it's "unplayable garbage." Already.
Y'all are frankly amazing.
The other "never before seen" formations could be frelling amazing, and i certainly hope they are. i was only saying that the Core is way to big minimum and the Decurion bonuses arent enough to make me care.
The new FSE is able to take both signature systems from standard TE codex and the FSE signature systems. YES! Buffed. Also it does seem from initial reports that the ECPA can be taken with normal RIptides again. I can't confirm only looking at what people who have the book are saying. They could be wrong. I'm relying on like two peoples testimony and we all know how great the internet is with rules sometimes. If it turns out to be false then eh.
Relics from either table now. Well his post is superficial and I would wait for scans of the actual rules. But what he says is you can take the lucky stick for a model from a W!G detachment.
Brokk wrote: This new update to the supplement is just lazy copy paste with hardly any changes to the rules at all. This is the first decurion detachment where many of the auxiliary choices are without any formation, because they didn't already have one.
My second complaint would be the rules. The boss is watchin and tha biggest and da best is just punishing. The +2 to the mob rule table hurts so much! Your only option to avoid that is to make Ghazkull the warlord as he has his warlord trait fixed. The only way to do that is to bring in the council of waagh it seems.
If waaagh every turn would be such a good rule, then everyone would choose the ork warband formation from the Ork codex. There are hardly any benefits in this supplement that makes it better than the CAD-detachment with objective secured.
Um... Where are you getting a +2 to the table from? No-one has said anything about it. Also, the warband is worse because you can't have Ghazghkull in it, who is the only one who makes use of it.
Because Black library already sent out the updated codex to those who already have it. That's why we are discussing the rules for the new Great waaagh!-band detachment here.
Great Waaagh! detachment, Command benefits = Biggest an da best: Warlord must issue and accept challenges if he kills an enemy charachter he can re-roll all failed to wound in CC for the remainder of the game, Da boss is watchin: +2 to mob rule chart and d3+3 strength 4 hits if breaking heads or squabble, Da big boss: re-roll warlord traits, Da great waaagh: if your warlord has the waaagh special rule he can call a waaagh each and every turn including the first turn, Da green horde: Every unit of 10 or more models in this detachment has the hammer of wrath special rule in any assault phase in which it succesfully charges an enemy unit.
The three new formations are Blitza bommer Skwadron, Burna bommer Skwadron and Dakkajet Skwadron.
Blitza bommer skwadron = 3 blitza bommers special rules: drop da bomb: blitza bommers re-roll failed armour penetration rolls for their boom bombs and can re-roll glancing hits
Bruna bommer skwadron = 3 burna bommers special rules: skorch da earth: Add 1 to the strength of any burna bombs
Dakkajet skwadron = 3 dakkajets special rules Give em some dakka: dakkajets in this formation have the tank hunter special rule if the target of the attacker is a flyer
Brokk wrote: [Because Black library already sent out the updated codex to those who already have it. That's why we are discussing the rules for the new Great waaagh!-band detachment here.
Great Waaagh! detachment, Command benefits = Biggest an da best: Warlord must issue and accept challenges, Da boss is watchin: +2 to mob rule chart, Da big boss: re-roll warlord traits, Da great waaagh: if your warlord has the waaagh special rule he can call a waaagh each and every turn including the first turn, Da green horde: Every unit of 10 or more models in this detachment has the hammer of wrath special rule in any assault phase in which it succesfully charges an enemy unit.
The three new formations are Blitza bommer Skwadron, Burna bommer Skwadron and Dakkajet Skwadron.
Blitza bommer skwadron = 3 blitza bommers special rules: drop da bomb: blitza bommers re-roll failed armour penetration rolls for their boom bombs and can re-roll glancing hits
Bruna bommer skwadron = 3 burna bommers special rules: skorch da earth: Add 1 to the strength of any burna bombs
Dakkajet skwadron = 3 dakkajets special rules Give em some dakka: dakkajets in this formation have the tank hunter special rule if the target of the attacker is a flyer
Those are terrible. The only one that seems even remotely useful is the Dakkajet Skwadron.
Did they remove the only one Gift of Gork n Mork per model crap? Its one thing if theres a ton of stackable powerful relics, but lets be honest theyre all moderate except the Stikk and Big Bosspole.
I want to run the other weapons but the Stikk is just too powerful to pass up lol
Relics from either table now. Well his post is superficial and I would wait for scans of the actual rules. But what he says is you can take the lucky stick for a model from a W!G detachment.
Thats actually ture. it says so under Orkimedes kustom gubbinz
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Vineheart01 wrote: Did they remove the only one Gift of Gork n Mork per model crap? Its one thing if theres a ton of stackable powerful relics, but lets be honest theyre all moderate except the Stikk and Big Bosspole.
I want to run the other weapons but the Stikk is just too powerful to pass up lol
There are no limitations in this supplement how many relics you can take. But isn't the restriction directly in the Gift of Gork n Mork rules? Have to check.
Yeah, the books are completely download able to any who previously bought the ebooks and might be available normally. The ork book is meh due to the core. Honestly if the core had been a green tide it would be a pretty sweet decurion but nah. It's kinda poopy.
As for the tau I didn't see where you could take the signature system on riptide because the section discussing says any character but no riptide has a character status except the riptide character. But I didn't super analyze it.
Brokk wrote: [Because Black library already sent out the updated codex to those who already have it. That's why we are discussing the rules for the new Great waaagh!-band detachment here.
Great Waaagh! detachment, Command benefits = Biggest an da best: Warlord must issue and accept challenges, Da boss is watchin: +2 to mob rule chart, Da big boss: re-roll warlord traits, Da great waaagh: if your warlord has the waaagh special rule he can call a waaagh each and every turn including the first turn, Da green horde: Every unit of 10 or more models in this detachment has the hammer of wrath special rule in any assault phase in which it succesfully charges an enemy unit.
The three new formations are Blitza bommer Skwadron, Burna bommer Skwadron and Dakkajet Skwadron.
Blitza bommer skwadron = 3 blitza bommers special rules: drop da bomb: blitza bommers re-roll failed armour penetration rolls for their boom bombs and can re-roll glancing hits
Bruna bommer skwadron = 3 burna bommers special rules: skorch da earth: Add 1 to the strength of any burna bombs
Dakkajet skwadron = 3 dakkajets special rules Give em some dakka: dakkajets in this formation have the tank hunter special rule if the target of the attacker is a flyer
Those are terrible. The only one that seems even remotely useful is the Dakkajet Skwadron.
Sadly all I wanted was a decent bike formation. Wtf Dakka Jet one is ok with waagh each turn.
It is, its listed in small print before listing the point costs. Thats why nobody noticed it for awhile and wanted to bring this super boss with the relic bike, killchoppa, stikk, and finkin' kap. Personally i dont think it's deadlier than a MAWarboss with Stikk but it would be fun as hell to run that anyway.
I always assumed the restriction carried over to the suppliment. Though the Big Bosspole and the Ragnarok are the only ones i wanted anyway. Its quite rare for a warboss to get sporked (least for me) so Supa Cybork is meh. Still see applications though, just not in my meta
gungo wrote: Sadly all I wanted was a decent bike formation. Wtf Dakka Jet one is ok with waagh each turn.
Wanna know the worst part? This could have easily been one formation. You pick one type of plane, bring 3, get the corresponding rule. Done. You don't need 3 different formations for that
Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote: So the only benefits the decurion gives is waaagh every turn and HoW ? That's confirmed ? Nothing new, nothing free ?
That's a let down if true since we have fornations that already do that....
It is, and the new formations are craptastic. Except the Dakkajet one, that one can actually be useful.
Ok, we don't know everything right now. Things to watch for - bonuses for the Ork Warband (since they are now orkurion bonuses they must be replaced by something, and thouse might be great), whether we can take multiple relics. I, personaly would love to take a DLS and the Supa Cybork together on a warboss. Costly, but fun. Panicking so early isn't right, in the end we might freak out how usefull the new stuff is.
hordrak wrote: Ok, we don't know everything right now. Things to watch for - bonuses for the Ork Warband (since they are now orkurion bonuses they must be replaced by something, and thouse might be great), whether we can take multiple relics. I, personaly would love to take a DLS and the Supa Cybork together on a warboss. Costly, but fun. Panicking so early isn't right, in the end we might freak out how usefull the new stuff is.
That's true. You can take a big mek with mega armour and Mega force field + the lukky stick now. That's a 2+ re-rollable and a 4++ re-rollable. Add FnP to that and it's pretty hard to take him down. But you could already do that but with two ICs from two detachments.
As expected. I doubt we'll get a new more proppa codex with out new models. And it'll still be... less than stellar.
Just give me more big shootas and my choppas back. then we'll see what's what.
Looking through the old formations now to see if there are some changes.
The blitz brigade now get a strength 10 hit when they ram.
Waaagh band is copied from the ork codex formation. If the warlord is chosen from this detachment you can re-roll warlord traits both from the supplement table and the one from codex orks. It also has the updated greenskin hordes where you don't have to roll 10" to get hammer of wrath attacks.
Gorkanaut krushin crew has rage from turn 2 instead of furios charge.
Goff killmob is similar to the one in Hour of the wolf. Boy units still have to be min 20 and killa kans min 3. The biggest difference is that it says Warboss instead of Grukk, but you still can take Grukk instead of a Warboss. And you can take a ordinary units of nobz. And the boyz don't have to take sluggas and choppas.
I cannot understand why they didn't include Mogroks bossboyz as an command choice :(
Um... Yeah I have nothing to say. The warband didn't even get its own rules, so is basically useless, and WHY IN ALL THAT IS HOLY, CHAOTIC OR ORKY IS IT +2?!?! That is a negative not a bloody positive! Sorry orks, GW still hates you apparently :(
On the Goff killmob, did they remove the wargear restriction? I actually like that formation BUT the fixed gear makes it useless. Taking a rokkit, kmb, and grotzooka in the same unit is not only poor point use but they dont want the same targets at all.
I just realized this detachment gives you less possibility to take painboys, weirdboys, big meks and meks. it's either them or the council of waagh as it's 0-1 command choice
I cannot see if they are command choice or not but it seems like it. Epub format throws around the images.
Oddboyz: 1 weirboy, painboy, mek or big mek.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Vineheart01 wrote: On the Goff killmob, did they remove the wargear restriction? I actually like that formation BUT the fixed gear makes it useless. Taking a rokkit, kmb, and grotzooka in the same unit is not only poor point use but they dont want the same targets at all.
Gamgee wrote: The new FSE is able to take both signature systems from standard TE codex and the FSE signature systems. YES! Buffed. Also it does seem from initial reports that the ECPA can be taken with normal RIptides again. I can't confirm only looking at what people who have the book are saying. They could be wrong. I'm relying on like two peoples testimony and we all know how great the internet is with rules sometimes. If it turns out to be false then eh.
The Sig systems from Tau is true. ECPA is not.
“SIGNATURE SYSTEMS
Any character in a Farsight Enclaves Detachment or Formation that may select Signature Systems may use the Signature Systems of the Farsight Enclaves (opposite), at the points costs shown, in addition to the Signature Systems from Codex: Tau Empire”
“Earth Caste Pilot Array....................30 points
Models with battlesuits only. The model re-rolls all rolls of 1 To Hit in the Shooting phase, and may re-roll the dice when using a Nova Reactor. However, their Weapon Skill is 1”
Brokk wrote: Looking through the old formations now to see if there are some changes.
The blitz brigade now get a strength 10 hit when they ram.
Waaagh band is copied from the ork codex formation. If the warlord is chosen from this detachment you can re-roll warlord traits both from the supplement table and the one from codex orks. It also has the updated greenskin hordes where you don't have to roll 10" to get hammer of wrath attacks.
Gorkanaut krushin crew has rage from turn 2 instead of furios charge.
Goff killmob is similar to the one in Hour of the wolf. Boy units still have to be min 20 and killa kans min 3. The biggest difference is that it says Warboss instead of Grukk, but you still can take Grukk instead of a Warboss. And you can take a ordinary units of nobz. And the boyz don't have to take sluggas and choppas.
I cannot understand why they didn't include Mogroks bossboyz as an command choice :(
The 20 min boyz make no sense since thier preorder formation only comes with 3 boxes of boys
Kroot come in boxes of 16, but a unit goes to 20. If you want max units and no leftovers, you need 5 boxes (80 kroot).
Probably did that on purpose. 3 boxes of boyz, but you gotta buy a few more to actually run the formation!
Admittedly, if i want more boyz or deffdredds im buying the starterbox. Its basically a 5dollar deffdredd in terms of costs for whats in there. Could always use painboyz and Nobz for meganob conversions, might as well get the dredd too for bitz (since i have 3 of them and i dont see ever needing more, or even being able to field more)
Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote: I'm reading from other threads the orkurian can waaagh turn 1. Any one confirm this ? If true that's possible turn 1 charges.
If true it leads to some interesting things:
11 choppa boyz, PK nob, truck, boarding plank.
Deploy on the line, move 6, disembark 6, run d6 with a re-roll for 'ere we go, charge 2+2d6 with a re-roll on 1 dice for 'ere we go, that's 6+6+4+11* = 27" on average
*I've assumed that 11 is the average for the charge considering boarding planks and 'ere we go but I could be wrong
Now dont get me wrong, this could be fun, but i dont run Trukk boyz and i have no intention of running Trukk boyz. Even with that in mind, thats still a 21" move in a turn, which is still turn 1 charge range.
Kroot come in boxes of 16, but a unit goes to 20. If you want max units and no leftovers, you need 5 boxes (80 kroot).
Probably did that on purpose. 3 boxes of boyz, but you gotta buy a few more to actually run the formation!
Admittedly, if i want more boyz or deffdredds im buying the starterbox. Its basically a 5dollar deffdredd in terms of costs for whats in there. Could always use painboyz and Nobz for meganob conversions, might as well get the dredd too for bitz (since i have 3 of them and i dont see ever needing more, or even being able to field more)
No I meant there is a formation bundle that is listed as coming with everything you need to run the Goff kill mob that only has 3x 11 man unit of boyz.
gungo wrote: No I meant there is a formation bundle that is listed as coming with everything you need to run the Goff kill mob that only has 3x 11 man unit of boyz.
Ya, not the first time GW has lied to us about stuff.
Gamgee wrote: The new FSE is able to take both signature systems from standard TE codex and the FSE signature systems. YES! Buffed. Also it does seem from initial reports that the ECPA can be taken with normal RIptides again. I can't confirm only looking at what people who have the book are saying. They could be wrong. I'm relying on like two peoples testimony and we all know how great the internet is with rules sometimes. If it turns out to be false then eh.
The Sig systems from Tau is true. ECPA is not.
“SIGNATURE SYSTEMS
Any character in a Farsight Enclaves Detachment or Formation that may select Signature Systems may use the Signature Systems of the Farsight Enclaves (opposite), at the points costs shown, in addition to the Signature Systems from Codex: Tau Empire”
“Earth Caste Pilot Array....................30 points
Models with battlesuits only. The model re-rolls all rolls of 1 To Hit in the Shooting phase, and may re-roll the dice when using a Nova Reactor. However, their Weapon Skill is 1”
Still party hard. The ECPA was only a bonus if it happened since we got the Riptide Wing.
Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote: I'm reading from other threads the orkurian can waaagh turn 1. Any one confirm this ? If true that's possible turn 1 charges.
If true that changes everything. Time to make more stormboyz for eating Tau overwatch! If we can change turn one, half of the Tau army won't get to shoot at all!! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE
Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote: I'm reading from other threads the orkurian can waaagh turn 1. Any one confirm this ? If true that's possible turn 1 charges.
If true that changes everything. Time to make more stormboyz for eating Tau overwatch! If we can change turn one, half of the Tau army won't get to shoot at all!! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE
Not to be too hard on your enthusiasm... But as a not particularly competitive Tau player I would fall for that once... Assuming I hadn't heard about it on the internet which I just did... Then start using absolute backfield deployment with my static assets to let you come to me mixed with extensive use of reserves to counterdeploy.
It's a massive boon, but it's not really a direct answer to the kinds of armies you have the biggest issues with.
Gamgee wrote: The new FSE is able to take both signature systems from standard TE codex and the FSE signature systems. YES! Buffed. Also it does seem from initial reports that the ECPA can be taken with normal RIptides again. I can't confirm only looking at what people who have the book are saying. They could be wrong. I'm relying on like two peoples testimony and we all know how great the internet is with rules sometimes. If it turns out to be false then eh.
The Sig systems from Tau is true. ECPA is not.
“SIGNATURE SYSTEMS
Any character in a Farsight Enclaves Detachment or Formation that may select Signature Systems may use the Signature Systems of the Farsight Enclaves (opposite), at the points costs shown, in addition to the Signature Systems from Codex: Tau Empire”
“Earth Caste Pilot Array....................30 points
Models with battlesuits only. The model re-rolls all rolls of 1 To Hit in the Shooting phase, and may re-roll the dice when using a Nova Reactor. However, their Weapon Skill is 1”
Still party hard. The ECPA was only a bonus if it happened since we got the Riptide Wing.
Page 124 in the Tau Empire codex has a list of all the "Battlesuits" Note the generic term battlesuit. . Riptides are on the list under battlesuits. I don't know the exact wording of the ECPA in the new farsight book, but it would appear if it is "battle suits" only, that would include riptides per the Tau EMpire book.
Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote: I'm reading from other threads the orkurian can waaagh turn 1. Any one confirm this ? If true that's possible turn 1 charges.
If true that changes everything. Time to make more stormboyz for eating Tau overwatch! If we can change turn one, half of the Tau army won't get to shoot at all!! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE
Not to be too hard on your enthusiasm... But as a not particularly competitive Tau player I would fall for that once... Assuming I hadn't heard about it on the internet which I just did... Then start using absolute backfield deployment with my static assets to let you come to me mixed with extensive use of reserves to counterdeploy.
It's a massive boon, but it's not really a direct answer to the kinds of armies you have the biggest issues with.
Yes, Tau would still be tough. But if they deployed back there, more objectives for us. Maybe just a point or 2, but it helps.
If the ECPA is listed in signature systems then no Riptides can't take it except the named one, but if it's just general wargear upgrade section it should be able to.
So we know whats out yet from the digital version of the new thing right?
Reading this thread has me confused on what we actually get
So can someone confirm and deny the following things
1. Did we get a Decurion?
2. Decurion bonuses? Right now it seems like WAAAGGGHH every turn and HOW on all charges. If thats the entire bonus to it then IMO thats complete crap and practically worthless. We already could get endless WAAAGGGHHHsss and ooooo S3 HoW oooohhhh!
3. Reworked formations from Grukk and Ghazy? Right now the only difference I have seen is apparently Blitz brigade get S10 rams.
4. The three new formations were all for ork fliers and 2 of which were not even good. Really? Thats our new formations?
More and more I want to save my money. The only way I might splash the cash, is if we get a new Codex. But the last one that received a full revamp was DA. I guess Orks just aren't green enough...
Here's another thing I'm not liking, the Decurions for each army are army wide.
Necrons: Flat +1 to RP Eldar: Flat 6" run move
SM: Free Rhinos, Drop Pods and Razorbacks, doctrines.
DA: Overwatch at full BS.
Tau: Combine firepower for +1 BS. Dawnblade let's you choose and kill units.
Raven Guard: Reserves turn one, choose sides.
White Scars: Re-roll hit and run, furious charge on 8".
Orks: Waaagh! every turn, HoW for 10+ models in units.
Within this, there's not a lot you can do. Necrons, you might have ID weapons but it's marginal difference. Eldar, aside blocking movement not a lot you can do. SM: Nothing, you have to take the Doctrines and Free transports. DA, don't charge them, but then you have to hope you have enough fire power to get through the 2+ cover. Tau, can do nothing about the Dawn Blade detachment. Hunter Contingent is tough to play against with the overwhelming firepower it can produce. Raven Guard, nothing. White Scars nothing, except stay more than 8" away, which suits them just fine.
Orks? Uhh kill the Warlord and you remove one part of the Orkurion bonus. Enough fire power can remove the second part and it's not even guaranteed due to random charge distance.
Maybe I'm missing something. But if you can remove the bonuses of the Orkurion, then I'm done. (Rage-quitting if you will. I've posted else where I'll make a final decision once I've seen rules for myself, but at the moment it's not great).
This is...pretty damn disappointing, not necessarily surprising but damn, I wasn't expecting the 3 "new" formations being crappy flyer ones, especially when we already have the skywing armada one.
Not looking gud for us orky ladz if this is the Band-Aid GW thinks we deserve. Looks like they really lack passion for Orks over for the rules-writers since the Proposed Rules section easily has more effort and thought put in than these poo poo attempts at formations.
Blitzabomber: I'm not dropping bombs on Tanks, I'm dropping bombs on Elite Infantry.
Burnabombers: Well they were bad to begin with. Better AP might have had use.
Dakkajet: Decent, but you usually need 5/6's to hurt the flyers. Lootas/Traktor Kannons are better in almost every way.
If they at least added some extra bonuses to WAAAGH! it would have made sense, as it is, having WAAAGH! every turn doesn't have that much impact unless you have the prophet of the WAAAGH! warlord trait, which is only guaranteed via Ghazghkull. I guess they're trying to shift Ghazghkull model sales then, too bad you need to take him in the Council.
Ok, I might be exaggerating, but it is pretty downright criminal the neglect orks get.....obviously gw thinks ork players want just 2 things, waaaghs!....and S3 HoW. It's all we ever need.
Blitzabomber: I'm not dropping bombs on Tanks, I'm dropping bombs on Elite Infantry.
Burnabombers: Well they were bad to begin with. Better AP might have had use.
Dakkajet: Decent, but you usually need 5/6's to hurt the flyers. Lootas/Traktor Kannons are better in almost every way.
Yeah, I'm surprised they didn't just give rending or shred to the dakkajets, a combined apocalyptic S10 (or dare I say strength D?) blast for the blitza bommers and an AP3 ignores cover version for the burna-bombers.
Its sad to see how little they think of Orks if they think these are things we'd be excited about. Just trying to shift more flyer models as always.
Ghaz curion. : 524 pt tax -> Not sure but lets say 10x aux = max 10 Tank busta's ant nothing else .
3x CAD with boyz as troops and mek as HQ .405pt tax -> Max 9 Tank busta squads and 9x free all other slots.
3x min cad (mek +2x grots) ->255 ->Max 9 Tank busta squads and 9x free all other slots.
Ghaz might actually be worse in spamming tank busta;s
Automatically Appended Next Post: Why are we the only army that loses all its super powers when you kill the boss.Wasn't that removed with the new edition of necorons ?
Council of waaagh
Oddboyz: 1 unit of weirdboy, painboy, mek or big mek (no special rules or formation in the supplement)
Auxiliary 1-10 per core
Dakkajet skwadron: 3 dakkajets
Ghazkulls bullyboyz
Blitz brigade
Boss Snikrots red skull kommandos
Blitza bommer skwadron: 3 blitza bommers
Runtz: 1 unit of gretchin (no special rules or formation in the supplement)
burna-bommer skwadron: 3 burna bommers
Speshulists: 1 unit of lootas, burna boyz, tankbustas, kommandos, stormboyz or flash gitz (no special rules or formation in the supplement)
speed freeks: 1 unit of warbikers, warbuggies or koptas (no special rules or formation in the supplement)
Mekboys big stuff: 1 stompa, gorkanaut, morkanaut, battlewagon or unit of mekgunz (no special rules or formation in the supplement)
Gorkanauts krushin crew
Dred mob
Air armada
Da vulcha skwad
Badrukks flash gitz
No kidding, this is...even worse than the Cadian supplement rules for IG. At least the Cadian one had some decent flavour and actual rules to make it worth considering, even if model-wise its not very feasible. They at least tried making several model combos viable with the psykana division, etc.
Tis a sad day for Ork players indeed. I'll still love my Orks and have fun, but the opportunity wasted is just face palm worthy.
Yeah, Eldar had Wraith units, Necrons had C'Tan, Flayed Ones and Deathmarks.
Of those, only C'Tan and Wraithlord are considered uncompetitive, but even then, The Nightbringer has a tasty Ignore Cover ignore roll to hit AP2 attack and the Wraithlord isn't bad, just outclassed by the Knight.
Swampmist wrote: Again, main thing is that you can get infinite waaagh with Ghaz, meaning your army is fearless and ghaz gets his 2+ invuln.
Thats if you bring him in his council formation which is very expensive and not even that great of a deathstar for its huge cost.
It's 614pts over half of which is ghaz and mad doc. It's not that bad unless you go all mega armour or pk on everyone
But it's so...underwhelming.
Let's not forget you need the core, which looks to be ~ 1k,
So you've got ~1614 points and that's without upgrades and an auxilliary! So you'll have to take cheap stuff like Deffkoptas for Objectives just to have enough points to spend on your 'deathstar'.
EDIT: Confirmed. HAHAHAHAHAHA. No.
Spoiler:
Because let's look at another issue, if you want Ghaz as your Warlord in the formation, you have to forgo Pain Boyz, or take Gretchin Tax in CAD. But with the amount of points you spend to get Ghaz, you might not even have enough for Painboys.
Let's not forget you need the core, which looks to be ~ 1k,
If the unit sizes etc of tthe waaaghband is the same as the old warband formation then it would only be 524 points. Core + Ghaz would be 1138 points.
This sounds bad but it might be quite interesting since it gives orks army wide fearless from the first turn until ghaz is dead. This is huge and completely undoes the mob rule nerf.
The tax for a painboys is just silly.
My first reaction was this is crap. But really it isn't that crappy. Sure it could be better but just look at what we got.
- Turn 1 Boyz in trukks + boarding planks are likely to charge 24"
- Army wide fearless -> No more crappy mob rule
- Ghaz 2+ invul
524 is the minimum, but it's not going to be what it actually is because you'll probably want to upgrade to Meganobz, PK, Boss Nobs, possibly more Boyz...it all adds up.
Let's not forget you need the core, which looks to be ~ 1k,
If the unit sizes etc of tthe waaaghband is the same as the old warband formation then it would only be 524 points.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The tax for a painboy is just silly.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Lets hope on an Ork codex soom this might be good with a new codex.
I wouldn't put your hopes up too high, given how IG are considered "updated" with the Cadia supplement, I fear this will be considered our "Band-Aid" to our codex for the time being. If they do rewrite our codex I really hope it includes a team or at least one person with a proper passion for Orks that reflects it through the rules. We deserve at least that.
The only way this orkurian would be good with a new dex is if everything in codex is half the price. All across the board.
Grots ,1pt
Boyz 3pts
Pk 12pts
Killa Kan 25pts
Stompa 300pts
Swampmist wrote: Again, main thing is that you can get infinite waaagh with Ghaz, meaning your army is fearless and ghaz gets his 2+ invuln.
Thats if you bring him in his council formation which is very expensive and not even that great of a deathstar for its huge cost.
It's 614pts over half of which is ghaz and mad doc. It's not that bad unless you go all mega armour or pk on everyone
But it's so...underwhelming.
Let's not forget you need the core, which looks to be ~ 1k,
So you've got ~1614 points and that's without upgrades and an auxilliary! So you'll have to take cheap stuff like Deffkoptas for Objectives just to have enough points to spend on your 'deathstar'.
EDIT: Confirmed. HAHAHAHAHAHA. No.
Spoiler:
Because let's look at another issue, if you want Ghaz as your Warlord in the formation, you have to forgo Pain Boyz, or take Gretchin Tax in CAD. But with the amount of points you spend to get Ghaz, you might not even have enough for Painboys.
So Fearless or FnP? Take your pick.
You do realize mad doc is a pain boy?
Also the starter box has a painboy with unknown rules.
My first reaction was this is crap. But really it isn't that crappy. Sure it could be better but just look at what we got.
- Turn 1 Boyz in trukks + boarding planks are likely to charge 24"
- Army wide fearless -> No more crappy mob rule
- Ghaz 2+ invul
I am seriously considering building a council of the waagh right now .
Automatically Appended Next Post: so you spend 1138 for that + 10 free slots and for the rest you can take your cad. The only downside I see is the dramatic lack of looted wagons ...
Go to a local copy shop, print out those few new pages and put them in the book. At least that is what I would do .
This is really just a errata like update if you already own the book.
Well getting more then 1 painboy has always been an issue.
The pain mob is actually not a lot of points so I hope the rules are decent. Army wide fnp and iwnd is pretty decent but I doubt it's that.
oldzoggy wrote: My first reaction was this is crap. But really it isn't that crappy. Sure it could be better but just look at what we got.
- Turn 1 Boyz in trukks + boarding planks are likely to charge 24"
- Army wide fearless -> No more crappy mob rule
- Ghaz 2+ invul
I am seriously considering building a council of the waagh right now .
Automatically Appended Next Post: so you spend 1138 for that + 10 free slots and for the rest you can take your cad. The only downside I see is the dramatic lack of looted wagons ...
But it is. It's entirely reliant on you keeping the Warlord alive. Once he goes, so does your army benefit.
One question The council of waaagh can't run can it ?
Automatically Appended Next Post: I completely agree that this is not the flexible Decution we where hoping for. ( I would rrather have somthing I could use with my own nice warlord)
But as a Ghaz army this is kinda great.
The fact that it crumbles when ghazzy is dead isn't good at all but I kinda like the thematics of it.
I feel like the fact that the formation requires 6 units of boyz and the HoW only takes effect if the unit is over 10 models kind of works against itself.
Most people would only take the bare minimum size nob squad, which is 5, then maybe a 12 man Trukk mob?
6 units of Boyz IMO is what makes that detachment eat itself. Otherwise it could be at least playable and I'd probably try it.
TedNugent wrote: Where are people getting army wide fearless from?
Ghazghkull's warlord trait makes all ork units during a WAAAGH fearless, ergo with every turn being a WAAAGH it's effectively permanent fearless as long as he lives.
His Warlord Trait allows a model which normally couldn't to call a Waagh!. Since Ghazghkull can call a Waagh! it instead grants "Fearless" to models that have the "Ere We Go" special rule.
Yeah I was looking under prophet of gork and mork.
isn't council 650 with no wargear and no transport?
Then you'd need 6 units of 10 ork boyz, one unit of nobz at 5 men, a big mek, a warboss (3 warbosses in 1 formation? lol), plus a unit of gretchin. That's another 585 before transports or wargear. I guess you'd be able to save points on bosspoles, lol.
Ghaz isn't exactly an easy warboss to kill
2+ invul every turn
2+ armour save
5+ fnp with rerolls with squig or 6+fnp if you kill mad doc first
Eternal warrior
And 4 wounds on t5
And 4+ look out sir
He's a beast in combat as well. Ws6/7 str10 ap2 5-6 atks int4
He can move run charge each turn with rerolls.
Not exactly a just kill him and the army falls apart easy target.
I can only hope my opponent wastes time trying to kill him so the rest of the army makes it into combat.
Swampmist wrote: Again, main thing is that you can get infinite waaagh with Ghaz, meaning your army is fearless and ghaz gets his 2+ invuln.
The thing that pisses me off is that i was doing this for 3 editions base. I didnt need to pay any huge unit taxes or run special formations, that was just how Orks worked. Yes Ghazy getting 2++ is nice, but the Fearless thing is just them giving my old Mob Rule back.
This discussion is about whether this update to the supplement makes the 7th ed codex more gak or less gak or the same level of gak than it was before the update.
According to the codex, the Waaaagh caller does not have to be on the table to call it...so take a minimum warboss as warlord, 60 pts, and keep him in reserve. The take a ton of base stormboyz (a few with powerklaws) and assault with them.
Orks now are the kings of turn 1 assault.
It isn't a necron decurion, but it could win games.
TedNugent wrote: You're buying literally an entire army just to have that Ghazghkull stats though.
No your not
You're paying 614 points for a tough warlord with a hard hitting melee unit to give your entire army fearless.
The decorian is simple waaagh every turn.
The biggest disappointment to me was the three new formations.
I wish there were better individual formations for the decorian like a biker formation with +1 cover and obj secured or free upgrades on boys squads like shoota and eavy armour and free pk for nobs but overall this decorian is just an MSU army list.
This discussion is about whether this update to the supplement makes the 7th ed codex more gak or less gak or the same level of gak than it was before the update.
Its still gak!! This fixes nothing. "But we get Fearless..." Ya for like 1200+ points. This thing is basically unplayable as anything other than Old School Green Tide, except then you dont get First Turn charge, cuz the boyz arent in trukks.
Now you could use your remaining points to buy as many Stormboyz as possible to tie up the enemy until the footslggers arrive to crash into them, but thats one build. And if i wanted one build id just go and run the Unkillable Stompa.
And yea im getting meta! People are getting excited about Fearless Orks, except that we where that for 3 F******G editions before this piece of trash existed, and now they hand it back to use and expect me to be happy with paying 600+ points, for a Character i dont want to run, to get a bonus i used to have, to run an army comp i dont want.
F**K. THEM. I am done, i am beyond insulted by this, especially since i own the fething hardcover version of this, so where is my update???
According to the codex, the Waaaagh caller does not have to be on the table to call it...so take a minimum warboss as warlord, 60 pts, and keep him in reserve. The take a ton of base stormboyz (a few with powerklaws) and assault with them.
Orks now are the kings of turn 1 assault.
It isn't a necron decurion, but it could win games.
Until ITC nerfs it because only marines can have nice things.
Until ITC nerfs it because only Eldar can have nice things.
Fixed that for you. I am with you though, my Orks are staying on the shelf until 8th ed update, or until GW makes WH40k explode, and then im just gonna rewrite the codex.
The core choice is compulsory, which is either 6 ork boyz, a unit of gretchin, a unit of nobz, a warboss, and a big mek.... (takes breath)
Or, 3 units of boyz, a warboss, a gorkanaut, 2 deff dreads, 1 unit of killa kans, and a unit of nobz.
So add that to the 614. And at that point, that's pretty much your entire army under 1500 points.
It is your entire army at 1500, cuz noone is running all of that without upgrades. The worst part is, is that neither of those was my army. The Waaagh-Band (god that name is stupid) is the closest, but i didnt run that many Boyz Mobz, if it was 3 i would totally run it, and just tell the Waagh Council to sod off. The other problem with this, is that i need Mogroks Bossboyz or another CAD to actually get any number of HQs that arent Warbosses.
Tried some list using army using army builder. the Ghaz unit is just too expensive as are trukks and power klaws for the core. at 1,850 you will just have ghazz + core or Core + a few other units of you are going trukk boyz.
Even if they arent trying to balance the game by NOT giving us insanely OP stuff, how the hell can they justify marketing other armies by how insanely powerful they are while simo advertise orks by their looks alone.
These formations are impossible to run without sacrificing mandatory upgrades. Fething hilariously bad.
Didnt even give us squadronable deffdredds. The one change that was expected to be automatic considering SM dreads are squads, riptides are squads, feth STORMSURGES are squads, but nope Deffdredds must be solo.
Normally i buy the new rules just so i have it and potentially find something. This is not getting my money. I want to play my orks, but its impossible to play them without requiring some insane luck on your side. I've had it. Not selling my orks because thats a stupid move but they are getting crated and stuffed into a closet from now on. Feth you GW, seriously.
JimOnMars wrote: Tau, Eldar and SM must be MUCH more profitable to GW than Orks.
All the more reason to give Orks better rules to encourage people to buy and play them. If anything Orks must be good sellers to get shafted so hard because they expect people to buy them anyways.
Honestly I think its 100% intended for Orks to be a weaker army for the more favored ones to roll over. That or whoever does balancing and rules is a moron.
Can I just say, I called that Warband being a Core choice?
Tbf, I said it'd be the *only* Core choice... but hey.
The sad thing is, this is probably worse than what I joked it would be... and that's really depressing as in the joke it was really terrible on purpose.
I'll admit I haven't read all 17 pages of posts, but I saw someone say they were able to update their existing enhanced edition of the ork supplement. Any news on wether the Farsight one has been able to be updated without paying for a new one yet?
All the more reason to give Orks better rules to encourage people to buy and play them. If anything Orks must be good sellers to get shafted so hard because they expect people to buy them anyways.
Honestly I think its 100% intended for Orks to be a weaker army for the more favored ones to roll over. That or whoever does balancing and rules is a moron.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, you think someone does balancing in GW, thats adorable. And apparently Chaos must be selling amazingly considering how bad they are.
JimOnMars wrote: Tau, Eldar and SM must be MUCH more profitable to GW than Orks.
You can actually blame the Riptide for the Tau's rapid expansion in popularity as a faction, it's sales, and thus games workshops obsession with us lately. The curse is it means we'll be unlikely to get much more than new battlesuits forever. :(
All the more reason to give Orks better rules to encourage people to buy and play them. If anything Orks must be good sellers to get shafted so hard because they expect people to buy them anyways.
Honestly I think its 100% intended for Orks to be a weaker army for the more favored ones to roll over. That or whoever does balancing and rules is a moron.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, you think someone does balancing in GW, thats adorable. And apparently Chaos must be selling amazingly considering how bad they are.
Well that really does not surprise me. From what I have seen Chaos fans seem to be really dedicated fans. I assume they all enjoy getting punched in the nuts as they jack off from how much they get gaked on, but hey.
In a world where gw ran orks into the ground.
One sister company has the opportunity to break all the rules.
This summer, forge world is.....
"Not game workshop"
Prepare to waaaagh
geargutz wrote: In a world where gw ran orks into the ground.
One sister company has the opportunity to break all the rules.
This summer, forge world is.....
"Not game workshop"
Prepare to waaaagh
Ok, trying to be optimistic and make use of what we have.
Looking at Ideas for core you can get a bare bones Warband for 524 (6 boyz, 1 grot, warboss, 1 nobs) then start adding gear and Aux units
Also for around 1200 you can get a warband with 6 trukk boyz units (nob , Pk) units that can waaagh first turn and charge 2d6+2 (planks). in an 1850 that leaves 650 for Aux.
I like that Ghazz idea, but im going to test out with out him first to see what I can do with more units instead of 1 uber one.
Was the Da Boss iz Watchin' rule always that gak? Because lots of formations came from the ghaz book had it and I don't remember the rule being that terrible.
Swampmist wrote: Was the Da Boss iz Watchin' rule always that gak? Because lots of formations came from the ghaz book had it and I don't remember the rule being that terrible.
Yes. When i first read it i swore they had wrote it after doing a literal mountain of cocaine with Charlie Sheen.
Yes, its always been there. Its not a chart where rolling high or low is infinitely better because it depends on the situation, so having a +2 to the die roll on the chart is essentially screwing it over. Might as well not have it.
If it was +/-2, it would be amazing, and justify the D3+3 instead of D6 hits. As it stands, it is now and always has been a flatout nerf to an already bad rule.
Welp. Back to writing an update for them that isn't utter horse gak then! Currently planning on playtesting some stuff monday, so I can try to salvage some of this at the very least.
Swampmist wrote: Welp. Back to writing an update for them that isn't utter horse gak then! Currently planning on playtesting some stuff monday, so I can try to salvage some of this at the very least.
Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote: Also Does the New Kill Mob have have the DA BOSS IZ WATCHING and DA BIGGEST AN' DA BEST rules ?
It was part of the Sanctus reach formations, so didnt have it originally.
Very good question. I am wondering what the rules are for that as well as the WAAAGGGHH band. I hope they got some nice bonuses. As it stands the waaggghh band old rules (ork warband) are entirely worthless when used in the decurion.
I am also curious as to what relics can be used for these formations.
Well, "technically" they do get those rules but they dont do anything.
They have no Mob Rule chart, so even though they have +2 on it...they dont have the chart to begin with.
Walkers are not characters, so they cant be forced to challenge.
Vineheart01 wrote: Well, "technically" they do get those rules but they dont do anything.
They have no Mob Rule chart, so even though they have +2 on it...they dont have the chart to begin with.
Walkers are not characters, so they cant be forced to challenge.
The kill mob has 3 units of 20 boys and Nobs, so those rules effect it if they got them
Vineheart01 wrote: Well, "technically" they do get those rules but they dont do anything.
They have no Mob Rule chart, so even though they have +2 on it...they dont have the chart to begin with.
Walkers are not characters, so they cant be forced to challenge.
The kill mob has 3 units of 20 boys and Nobs, so those rules effect it if they got them
The Killmob only gets them when in the Decurion, otherwise its just Fear and rerolling morale tests.
Vineheart01 wrote: Well, "technically" they do get those rules but they dont do anything.
They have no Mob Rule chart, so even though they have +2 on it...they dont have the chart to begin with.
Walkers are not characters, so they cant be forced to challenge.
The kill mob has 3 units of 20 boys and Nobs, so those rules effect it if they got them
The Killmob only gets them when in the Decurion, otherwise its just Fear and rerolling morale tests.
Thank you ! Its kind of usable now for the way i play. So the Decurion actually makes it worse lol
Any one have a screen shot of just the Goff Kill Mob Formation ? I want to see how they changed it, so I can get a few listys going before I get the book.
Recalculated again. It is possible to field the Council, the Warband and a single Deffkopta under 1850 pts. To do this you must take only trukks as transports, no meganobs and all warbosses must have only 'eavy armour and powrklaws. Ghaz, Mad Dok, 2 warbosses, one mek (with either a KFF or SAG) + 3 barebones nobs inside a trukk is 752 pts. Then you can have all boys in the Warband have 11 boyz, trukks+ PK Nobs. Warboss goes with just 'eavy armor and a PK with 3 nobs with 'eavy armour in a Trukk. Thats 1057. Leaves room for 1 Deffkopta/Warbuggy. No need for Bosspoles since you will be fearless. With a little luck you get T1 assault and the enemy will have a hard time dealing with it. If you go second hide the trukks in cover or behind LOS blocking terrain. The only thing you have to care about will be the trukk with Ghaz. All in all its a masive spamm of trukks and min sized fearless units with a ghazy Deathstar.
What I am thinking of doing is mega armored warbosses everywhere. Made a fun 2500 list (Anything to do with this decurion is not competitive IMO) to play my daemon buddy and my list is a bunch of walking blobs, ghazy deathstar, Warbosses in MA (2 in ghazy 1 in the ork horde), 1 manz missle, 3 deff koptas, 2 warbuggies, 3 gretchin squads, a BW transport for the deathstar with the traditional big mek stompa at its discounted price.
The none stompa version gives each boy squad a nob with big choppa, another MA warboss and a killa kan mob.
Does not seem competitive at all and I feel much better about my 2000 ork CAD + bullyboyz list, but the ghazy deathstar could be fun. Its not like I am building the entire army around giving one guy a 2 up invuln when space marines could just take Lysander and get almost as tanky with no requirements needed. xD
I ran the council of waaagh before and I was fun now it will be hilarious I think. Not remotely what I was hoping for but doesn't surprise me. Oh well now to figure out how to male it work for the footslogging.
cranect wrote: I ran the council of waaagh before and I was fun now it will be hilarious I think. Not remotely what I was hoping for but doesn't surprise me. Oh well now to figure out how to male it work for the footslogging.
I dont think you have to footslog it. I would think the nobs could still take their dedicated transport and even if they couldnt just take a CAD outside the formation bare bones and give that a battle wagon.
Orock wrote: Why give the warbosses eavy armor? Might as well keep em at 6+ for majority armor vs grav guns.
Also an option. Leaves 35 pts to spend.
I think the MA upgrade is totally worth it though. Puts their WS 8 PKs to great use as they tear nearly anything up in CQC. Nothing short of S10 ap2 will mess up the star and even then you at least get 3 nobs to try and eat that wounds as well as the big mek. Oh and if said monsters are characters ghazy can eat it with his 2 up invuln.
Oh no I'm not footslogging the council...probably... For 1850 I might need to to get a satisfactory number of nobz. The rest of the army will be though since I'm not a fan of trukk or bike spam or speed freaks in general. I prefer goffs, blood axes, and snakebites the most.
cranect wrote: I ran the council of waaagh before and I was fun now it will be hilarious I think. Not remotely what I was hoping for but doesn't surprise me. Oh well now to figure out how to male it work for the footslogging.
I dont think you have to footslog it. I would think the nobs could still take their dedicated transport and even if they couldnt just take a CAD outside the formation bare bones and give that a battle wagon.
Orock wrote: Why give the warbosses eavy armor? Might as well keep em at 6+ for majority armor vs grav guns.
Also an option. Leaves 35 pts to spend.
I think the MA upgrade is totally worth it though. Puts their WS 8 PKs to great use as they tear nearly anything up in CQC. Nothing short of S10 ap2 will mess up the star and even then you at least get 3 nobs to try and eat that wounds as well as the big mek. Oh and if said monsters are characters ghazy can eat it with his 2 up invuln.
True. But that will be 2000 pts, not 1850. Not a big difference, however.
I knew we would get the Cadian treatment on the core but even the auxiliary formations are gak. Somebody at GW doesn't even understand how to encourage sales. Give orks free trukks or some other crazy bonus to make us want to buy the requirements for their formations. Instead we have formations that don't do anything (this is the most "take 1 of this, no benefits" I've ever seen in an auxiliary list) and a core that offers nothing. Whoever made this has no interest in selling models, making orks playable, or even getting two squigs about the faction. This is just a "have this done by 5" task they threw at somebody who went through and quickly edited a few things from the old supplements and slapped it into the Decurion template calling it a day, probably even got praise for finishing by 3.
There is SOOOO much potential for cool formations like a Weirdboy conclave that could sell models and give Orks some variety. I don't get how a company doesn't even try to make something interesting and instead just shrugs their shoulders and serve up the same dish that people didn't buy before. I dunno, maybe they did try their best and this is all they can manage? They did change the krushing crew rule to be rage instead of furious charge. Maybe that's the secret sauce that will make people realize that "yes I do need 3 gorkanauts in my life". I'm surprised that they didn't give Blitz Brigade free stikkbomb chukkas.
Ultimately the only thing I can feel is disappointment in GW. I didn't expect 4+ FNP army wide or free trukks for everyone but its the lack of any real attempt to make you want to buy more Orks that leaves me stunned and confused. How a company that has shown its trying to encourage sales would let this product go through is beyond me. I would encourage everyone to contact GW and let it be known that these rules are not appealing and they do not encourage you to buy new models. I feel like GW is dense enough to actually think a lack of sales response is because of low popularity of Orks instead of the fact that they made bad rules.
If you don't like it, vote with your wallet and don;t buy.
Unfortunately GW makes a lot of it's money from new people entering the hobby, so they'll see this, think it's amazing and buy all the stuff they need, only to realize that it's utter garbage.
Vankraken wrote: I knew we would get the Cadian treatment on the core but even the auxiliary formations are gak. Somebody at GW doesn't even understand how to encourage sales. Give orks free trukks or some other crazy bonus to make us want to buy the requirements for their formations. Instead we have formations that don't do anything (this is the most "take 1 of this, no benefits" I've ever seen in an auxiliary list) and a core that offers nothing. Whoever made this has no interest in selling models, making orks playable, or even getting two squigs about the faction. This is just a "have this done by 5" task they threw at somebody who went through and quickly edited a few things from the old supplements and slapped it into the Decurion template calling it a day, probably even got praise for finishing by 3.
There is SOOOO much potential for cool formations like a Weirdboy conclave that could sell models and give Orks some variety. I don't get how a company doesn't even try to make something interesting and instead just shrugs their shoulders and serve up the same dish that people didn't buy before. I dunno, maybe they did try their best and this is all they can manage? They did change the krushing crew rule to be rage instead of furious charge. Maybe that's the secret sauce that will make people realize that "yes I do need 3 gorkanauts in my life". I'm surprised that they didn't give Blitz Brigade free stikkbomb chukkas.
Ultimately the only thing I can feel is disappointment in GW. I didn't expect 4+ FNP army wide or free trukks for everyone but its the lack of any real attempt to make you want to buy more Orks that leaves me stunned and confused. How a company that has shown its trying to encourage sales would let this product go through is beyond me. I would encourage everyone to contact GW and let it be known that these rules are not appealing and they do not encourage you to buy new models. I feel like GW is dense enough to actually think a lack of sales response is because of low popularity of Orks instead of the fact that they made bad rules.
yeah my thoughts exactly, i can write better formations in like 5 minutes. I have sent an email to gw
I also forget that the council formation also gives ghaz +1 ws and 2 additional warlord traits with free rerolls on top of his fearless waaggh trait.
Add in a Lukky stick to one of the warbosses in mega armour (for 2+ reroll armour) and ghaz has WS8 with the rest of the formation at ws7.
Win a single challenge with ghaz and he also rerolls all to wound rolls in combat the rest of the game.
Ghaz is not going to be easy to kill.
Combing for potential I see WAAAGH! turn 1 and forward, and room for lots of tank bustas. Each Core opens up for 10 auxilaries.
Trukk boys with boarding planks can try charge:
12" DZ, 6" move, 6" disembarge, d6" run move (possibly re-roll with 1 in 3 chance of getting the Like a Thunderbolt warlord trait), 2d6" charge move with reroll of 1 dice, +2" from boarding planks.
12+6+6+d6+2+2d6 (1 re-roll)
26+3+8=37
Trukk boyz charge 37" onto the board on average.
Stormboyz go even faster:
12" DZ, 12" move, 2d6" run, 2d6" charge with 1 re-roll.
12+12+2d6+2d6 (1 re-roll)
24+7+8=39
Stormboyz charge 39" onto the board on average.
There is a potential for a Trukk army, too bad you requre more than 1000 points of core formation before you can start taking any Elites.
Say that you do 6 Trukk boyz mobs with nob, bosspole and klaw. Then you might afford 3 Tankbusta mobs in Trukks with a nob and bosspole. Maybe you can fit a Looted wagon or two - put the Nobs and Warboss in one, and keep the grots to hold an objective. That would make for 6+3+2=11 vehicles on the line on turn 1, ready to charge.
If you get the fist turn you'll most likely krump the enemy right good. If you don't you're gonna get wiped by any competent Tau or Eldar player. So basically the entire game will depend on who gets the first turn.
Potentially fun, but that's only a single build, and everything hinges on a single throw of the dice.
EDIT: wait, Looted wagons are not an auxiliary, right? So that won't work. Maybe you can squeeze one battlewagon in there, or at least go with a Trukk for the Nobs. So 10 vehicles.
The way I see this, it's a fun alternate way to run Ghazzy. You get either:
1) a predetermined way to run ghazzy as the unstoppable behemoth we've always wanted him to be, with either a mob of footsloggers and walkers or a swarm of Trukk boyz
Or
2) a way to play with the formations if you take it without Ghaz (remember you still get a Warboss to roll for prophet of waaag if you take the Waaaghband, so you can take a Painboy as desired)
Either way you can get some fun benefits (Ghazzy being awesome in the former, or stuff like permawaaaghing Dakkajets and run and charging Stormboyz in the latter)
Do you get an Eldar level cheese Dex? No but that was never gonna happen without actual unit changes, and as soon as we knew it was waagh Ghaz we should've known it wasn't that. Ghaz never had any units in it.
Well this has been a. . . disappointment to put it politely.
Is this just a one off release with a single supplement or is there more ork stuff coming, like say a campaign book? Is there any hope at all for my poor horde?
the Signless wrote: Well this has been a. . . disappointment to put it politely.
Is this just a one off release with a single supplement or is there more ork stuff coming, like say a campaign book? Is there any hope at all for my poor horde?
Seems like they pushed out some updates for the supplements for unknown reasons. No word on anything big for the Orks but I'm sure we will see an Ork campaign release when GW wants a part 1 punching bag to warm up the heroes before the real threat shows up in part 2.
Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote: Also Does the New Kill Mob have have the DA BOSS IZ WATCHING and DA BIGGEST AN' DA BEST rules ?
It was part of the Sanctus reach formations, so didnt have it originally.
Very good question. I am wondering what the rules are for that as well as the WAAAGGGHH band. I hope they got some nice bonuses. As it stands the waaggghh band old rules (ork warband) are entirely worthless when used in the decurion.
I am also curious as to what relics can be used for these formations.
Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:If they didnt gain the grot turd rules (Da boss iz watchin and Biggest an'da best), the Goff Kill Mob I may run out side the orkcurion.
It says in the main rules for the supplement that all formations and detachments from the supplement get Da boss is watching and Da biggest an da best rules.
This is one of those things that make the formation datasheets seem so poorly handled. For some of the old formations someone copypaste in those rules under special rules. Even the blitz brigade got these rules even though they are not affected by them. But some of the newly added formations as the Waaagh band and Goff killmob they didn't have the time to copypaste in those rules. But they still got em according to the supplements main rules.
You can choose relics both from Waagh Ghazkull and codex orks now.
warhead01 wrote:Any word on the Green tide?
The Green tide is out. I repeat, they killed of the Green tide. :(
Yikes. Wonder what caused them to drop the Green tide.
Maybe the horde would be better by being more flexible?
I'm not thrilled to be so forced to change how I play.
Maybe it just seems like a bigger thing than it is?
Well, I will say that the email I got from gw for the updated download said the rules from the previous supplement were still valid. Granted they aren't available anymore but they are still valid...
Original codex has the Ork Warband, not Green Tide. Green Tide is definitely in the original suppliment. I imagine since this is such an ungodly bad write they probably forgot about green tide.
Green Tide would be another core if it still exists. 1 warboss + 10 boyz all forming 1 unit. Quite frankly i dont know how people run it....10man squads with nob + klaw and the warboss with 'eavy armor, big bosspole, pk being ~100 its over 1000pts of boyz that cannot get speedier.
Ive tried running a list with them. Not enough points for another formation that's useful, and by the time i add in the troop/HQ requirements in a CAD (which also gives me a painboy for the greentide) i have nowhere near enough points for a proper supporting list (deffkoptas, warbikes, MANz missiles, lobbas, etc)
It doesn't matter what our analysis of this is on paper, or our first reactions. The internet has been wrong when predicting the competitive viability 100% of the time a new army/detachment/codex is released.
That said, I like the Khorne Demonkin, and now Wulfen and Ork updates, because it's giving us armies that can reliably get into combat with speed. This is good for fighting against a shooty-dominant 7th edition. A little something for every play style.
These Ork formations are a good value, because there are models and special rules included for free.
brassangel wrote: It doesn't matter what our analysis of this is on paper, or our first reactions. The internet has been wrong when predicting the competitive viability 100% of the time a new army/detachment/codex is released
The less apt a man is to make declarative statements, the less apt he is to look foolish in hindsight.
So it's possible to fit in the Waagh horde and the Council + deffkopta at 1850. But it seems like it's constructed for 2000-3000p games more than anything else. Probably unintentional as they didn't even read through the book before publishing it.
warhead01 wrote: Yikes. Wonder what caused them to drop the Green tide.
Maybe the horde would be better by being more flexible?
I'm not thrilled to be so forced to change how I play.
Maybe it just seems like a bigger thing than it is?
Oh no! You can't play the exact same way forever and ever? You mean you may have to learn to adapt to new tactics and try out a different model?!
Oh no! You can't play the exact same way forever and ever? You mean you may have to learn to adapt to new tactics and try out a different model?!
...
Cool it. No need to be antagonistic.
I don't think this new uber detachment is worth it. It is much like taking an Ork Cad with less flexibility, and worse special rules. I don't see a reason to take it, unless I'm trying to nerf myself for a friendly game.
Do you we have information on the completeness of the update? Is there a chance that the individual formations, and other special rules are getting updates as well?
brassangel wrote: It doesn't matter what our analysis of this is on paper, or our first reactions. The internet has been wrong when predicting the competitive viability 100% of the time a new army/detachment/codex is released.
That said, I like the Khorne Demonkin, and now Wulfen and Ork updates, because it's giving us armies that can reliably get into combat with speed. This is good for fighting against a shooty-dominant 7th edition. A little something for every play style.
These Ork formations are a good value, because there are models and special rules included for free.
The problem is the special rules Da boss is watchin and Da biggest an da best. Those rules are just puniching. Orks tend to lose morale test quite easily as they have leadership 7 and poor armour saves. The current mob rule makes it somwhat better to manage it by rolling 2-3 breaking heads or a 1 when you are in close combat. But with the +2 to mob rule you will only manage this if you roll a 1. If you are 10+ you can manage it by rolling 1-4, but even if you manage the mob rule your nob will deal out 3+d3 hits. That's minimum 4 hits and you will rapidly loose more models and get destroyed or fail the morale next time.
Warbosses usually don't want to challenge either as they almost always strike last with their powerklaw. But they have to with this rule.
Even without those rules orks biggest weakness is the morale and challenges. Those rules just makes orks much much weaker. The only way in this codex to get around this is fearless, which you either can get via Ghazkulls council or from tha big bosspole which will only affect one unit.
brassangel wrote: IThese Ork formations are a good value, because there are models and special rules included for free.
Um...what? Orks dont get free units. Anywhere. At all. We dont get free anything. Even the extra rules arent free, as i would have to take units i never had any intention of ever taking.
Oh no! You can't play the exact same way forever and ever? You mean you may have to learn to adapt to new tactics and try out a different model?!
Holy buckets, that evil GW!
Also, you are making it a bigger deal than it is.
Firstly, chill.
Secondly, most Ork players have had to basically re-buy their entire fething army to make this new book work. I know i would have, which i didnt, cuz i wasnt spending another 400+ bucks just to make them function on a basic level. The Ork-Curion doesn't help this, it just continues that trend.
brassangel wrote:It doesn't matter what our analysis of this is on paper, or our first reactions. The internet has been wrong when predicting the competitive viability 100% of the time a new army/detachment/codex is released.
What? After the rules are released, the analysis of what is good or not is usually pretty spot on. The only exception that I can think of in recent months is that Tau did not turn out to be completely game breaking and instead were merely very powerful.
brassangel wrote:That said, I like the Khorne Demonkin, and now Wulfen and Ork updates, because it's giving us armies that can reliably get into combat with speed. This is good for fighting against a shooty-dominant 7th edition. A little something for every play style.
This is true, but it requires lots of units (which need upgrades to be useful) before you take the upgrades needed to get into combat quickly (trukks and boarding planks).
brassangel wrote:These Ork formations are a good value, because there are models and special rules included for free.
I have no idea what you mean with this statement.
brassangel wrote:
warhead01 wrote: Yikes. Wonder what caused them to drop the Green tide.
Maybe the horde would be better by being more flexible?
I'm not thrilled to be so forced to change how I play.
Maybe it just seems like a bigger thing than it is?
Oh no! You can't play the exact same way forever and ever? You mean you may have to learn to adapt to new tactics and try out a different model?!
Holy buckets, that evil GW!
Also, you are making it a bigger deal than it is.
The green tide has been a part of the orks since formations were a thing back in apocalypse. It would be like removing drop pods and trying to justify it by saying it is to make Space Marine players try out new tactics.
I generally try and give people the benefit of the doubt, but I think that you are just fishing for a response with your posts now. You have this weird confrontational attitude in all of your posts and tried to justify removing Green Tide with a "Learn to Play." Maybe its just that I am mad at the supplement and am irrationally directing it at you, and if so I apologise, but what is your problem with people complaining about this truly bad supplement? How is it hurting you?
Not in the ghaz formation but it should have been a core choice. That way you could take a green tide with its warlord and a painboss. It still would have been a 1000pt list but it would have been cheaper then the current list design of tide plus cad with painboss 2x gretchin and void generator relay.
I won't disagree that's its a bit lazy, and not very helpful. But it exists, which is something that I didn't expect as of a week ago.
And there is some potential for fun stuff, like ghaz getting endless waaaaghs.
I feel as if using it has too much cost associated with it - the core requirements are too costly (what is the necron core? Like 2 warriors and tomb blades?).
But it's a thing, that does things, and I'm excited to try it out, at least. It may not be amazing, or even good really, but at this point what do you expect.
I'm just pleasantly surprised we even got a decurion.
Am i the only one that kinda wishes the MFF was a 12" 5++ instead of a 6" 4++? 6" bubble is so hard to get more than a couple models in it without fear of large blasts, though its great when hiding behind a naut on a bike since blasts that make walkers scared are kinda rare and due to large bases still only get 2-3 things anyway.
Really not sure which is better, though i could use the 12" 5++ a bit more universally it obviously isnt as potent for walkers.
I won't disagree that's its a bit lazy, and not very helpful. But it exists, which is something that I didn't expect as of a week ago.
And there is some potential for fun stuff, like ghaz getting endless waaaaghs.
I feel as if using it has too much cost associated with it - the core requirements are too costly (what is the necron core? Like 2 warriors and tomb blades?).
But it's a thing, that does things, and I'm excited to try it out, at least. It may not be amazing, or even good really, but at this point what do you expect.
I'm just pleasantly surprised we even got a decurion. .
Its a good Core, the minimum is reasonable, and it has the potential to take more if you happen to like Warriors or something. If ours was say:
1 Warboss 0-1 Painboy 3-6 Boyz Mobs 1-3 Nobz or Meganobz (in any combination) 0-2 Deff Dredds 0-2 Gorkanaughts or Morkanaughts (in any combination)
I can work with this, i have options, im taking things i want, not have to. This is a decent Core.
Vineheart01 wrote: Am i the only one that kinda wishes the MFF was a 12" 5++ instead of a 6" 4++? 6" bubble is so hard to get more than a couple models in it without fear of large blasts, though its great when hiding behind a naut on a bike since blasts that make walkers scared are kinda rare and due to large bases still only get 2-3 things anyway.
Really not sure which is better, though i could use the 12" 5++ a bit more universally it obviously isnt as potent for walkers.
I firmly believe it shoulda been a 12" bubble to begin with, as they changed it to models not units, that or make it cheaper. I mean Necron Crypteks have the Chronometron which gives a 5++ against shooting to a single unit, which is pretty much all the KFF does now, except theres is only 25 points.
Vineheart01 wrote: Am i the only one that kinda wishes the MFF was a 12" 5++ instead of a 6" 4++? 6" bubble is so hard to get more than a couple models in it without fear of large blasts, though its great when hiding behind a naut on a bike since blasts that make walkers scared are kinda rare and due to large bases still only get 2-3 things anyway.
Really not sure which is better, though i could use the 12" 5++ a bit more universally it obviously isnt as potent for walkers.
I'd be fine with 6" if it was units and not models.
I just don't understand why we have to take six units of boyz. 3-8 or something like that. Don't shoe horn me into a playstyle, because I'm just going to go into CAD.
"Oh no! You can't play the exact same way forever and ever? You mean you may have to learn to adapt to new tactics and try out a different model?! "
That's all well and good, sure. Except, All last year I bought loads and loads more Ork boys just to run several Green tides.
I'm still in the process of painting the last 200 shoota boys.
So, ya, I'm a bit disappointed at the loss of the Green Tide.
(Ebay, how I love you...)
As was pointed out to me a page ago, it's still a legal formation. Even if it's not a current one. And I'm completely ok with not being able to apply the WAAAAGH with it on turn one if need be.
I do think you red a little too much into what I posted.
I am going to try a different list with a trukk tax, just like most all the other warbosses. Just to see what it'll do.
But you know it's more about what I enjoy pushing across the table than anything else. there's just something I find satisfying about the green tides.
Oh believe me im still pissed it went to a model basis and didnt get a price cut. Most expensive invul in the game. Tau MCs pay 50pts for a 4++ but thats also on an MC and a better save, so that price is justified, why the hell is the only ork invul so expensive and hard to get?
I havnt even used a KFF in eons because getting a big mek in the army is so damn difficult thanks to painboyz being an IC instead of akin to mekboyz. Random warbiker unit with a painboy is far, far better than a more expensive 5++.
And dont get me started on morkanauts. Just shy of 300pts, terrible shooting, lack of melee rules, still only a 5++.
I was running 3 KFF's and a pain boys for a while while leaving my grotts in reserve. I just got a 4th KF mek a month ago to boost my coverage.
I'd probably been better off just building a VSG. less dice to roll.
warhead01 wrote: "Oh no! You can't play the exact same way forever and ever? You mean you may have to learn to adapt to new tactics and try out a different model?! "
That's all well and good, sure. Except, All last year I bought loads and loads more Ork boys just to run several Green tides. I'm still in the process of painting the last 200 shoota boys. So, ya, I'm a bit disappointed at the loss of the Green Tide. (Ebay, how I love you...) As was pointed out to me a page ago, it's still a legal formation. Even if it's not a current one. And I'm completely ok with not being able to apply the WAAAAGH with it on turn one if need be. I do think you red a little too much into what I posted. I am going to try a different list with a trukk tax, just like most all the other warbosses. Just to see what it'll do. But you know it's more about what I enjoy pushing across the table than anything else. there's just something I find satisfying about the green tides.
And i like a few large Mobz of boyz being supported by mass artillery fire and Speshulist Boyz. And the Ork-Curion doesnt support either of these play-styles. If you run a Trukk Boyz army, its wonderful, as you where probably running a fair amount of boyz mobz anyway, but it does nothing for the rest of us.
Decurion style formations arent supposed to shoe horn you into one particular playstyle, at least if they are good (see Necrons and Eldar) or at least make that one style very, very good (Gladius) We get, decent if you take trukks. Not free trukks, not improved trukks, just a possible 1st turn charge if you take trukks.
Ya, this clinches it, im gonna re write this Orkcurion.
Vineheart01 wrote: Oh believe me im still pissed it went to a model basis and didnt get a price cut. Most expensive invul in the game. Tau MCs pay 50pts for a 4++ but thats also on an MC and a better save, so that price is justified, why the hell is the only ork invul so expensive and hard to get?
I havnt even used a KFF in eons because getting a big mek in the army is so damn difficult thanks to painboyz being an IC instead of akin to mekboyz. Random warbiker unit with a painboy is far, far better than a more expensive 5++. And dont get me started on morkanauts. Just shy of 300pts, terrible shooting, lack of melee rules, still only a 5++.
Mogrok's Bossboyz are for spamming Big Meks, and the Formation bonus is actually decent on top of that. D3 Outflanking Acute senses units? Well if you twist my arm....
Frozocrone wrote: Except.you'll lose your unlimited Waaagh! by going with Mogrok who has to be the Warlord.
The formation is good, but you have to supplement it with a CAD for Painboyz.
That you do, its a playstyle that really doenst use Waaagh, and can actually make the Kan wall viable again. Usually because your Outflanking a Battlewagon or something goofy.
Kanluwen wrote: Are the bonuses for a single Core choice or multiples?
You get 1 Oddboy per Core or a Council of the Waaagh
So ya take the Not-Warband and you can get 1 Painboy, Weirdboy, Mek or Big Mek.
warhead01 wrote: "Oh no! You can't play the exact same way forever and ever? You mean you may have to learn to adapt to new tactics and try out a different model?! "
That's all well and good, sure. Except, All last year I bought loads and loads more Ork boys just to run several Green tides.
I'm still in the process of painting the last 200 shoota boys.
So, ya, I'm a bit disappointed at the loss of the Green Tide.
(Ebay, how I love you...)
As was pointed out to me a page ago, it's still a legal formation. Even if it's not a current one. And I'm completely ok with not being able to apply the WAAAAGH with it on turn one if need be.
I do think you red a little too much into what I posted.
I am going to try a different list with a trukk tax, just like most all the other warbosses. Just to see what it'll do.
But you know it's more about what I enjoy pushing across the table than anything else. there's just something I find satisfying about the green tides.
And i like a few large Mobz of boyz being supported by mass artillery fire and Speshulist Boyz. And the Ork-Curion doesnt support either of these play-styles. If you run a Trukk Boyz army, its wonderful, as you where probably running a fair amount of boyz mobz anyway, but it does nothing for the rest of us.
Decurion style formations arent supposed to shoe horn you into one particular playstyle, at least if they are good (see Necrons and Eldar) or at least make that one style very, very good (Gladius) We get, decent if you take trukks. Not free trukks, not improved trukks, just a possible 1st turn charge if you take trukks.
Ya, this clinches it, im gonna re write this Orkcurion.
Vineheart01 wrote: Oh believe me im still pissed it went to a model basis and didnt get a price cut. Most expensive invul in the game. Tau MCs pay 50pts for a 4++ but thats also on an MC and a better save, so that price is justified, why the hell is the only ork invul so expensive and hard to get?
I havnt even used a KFF in eons because getting a big mek in the army is so damn difficult thanks to painboyz being an IC instead of akin to mekboyz. Random warbiker unit with a painboy is far, far better than a more expensive 5++.
And dont get me started on morkanauts. Just shy of 300pts, terrible shooting, lack of melee rules, still only a 5++.
Mogrok's Bossboyz are for spamming Big Meks, and the Formation bonus is actually decent on top of that. D3 Outflanking Acute senses units? Well if you twist my arm....
Right, its the same complaint im raising in the tactics thread. The counterargument is "just take a cad" well no duh we can take a cad, but guess what orks are so lousy we are severely gimping ourselves because we dont want to run the same damn list every game which this orkcurion style is forcing us to do.
Biker lists are impossible, Wagon lists are impossible, Dreadmob lists are impossible unless you dont use the orkcurion, which defeats the flippin' point of the update. Granted, the orcurion bonuses really dont do much for walkers/bikers, but army-wide potential fearless for bikers or army-wide run + charge for Dreadmob walkers is still very powerful...just impossible to get in a normal game. All thanks to those insane unit counts and random tax units (nobz, grots, why does the Dreadmob add a painboy?).
I shouldnt have to completely ignore formations to run a staple tactic of the orks for years upon years, and thats exactly what this update is making me do.
Also Mogrok's Bossboyz suffer from the pathetic Ghazzy sup rules (Da Boss Iz Watchin, Biggest n Da Best), which really makes me not like them. And i still think not having a warboss on bike the warlord is a suicide mission, as pretty much every other warlord option is easily dispatched.
The Green Tide formation was removed from Waaagh! Ghazghkull v2.0?
I'm having trouble keeping track of what's real and what's speculation with all the nerd rage flying about. Is that just a rumor, or confirmed from someone who has the updated supplement?
If true, that doesn't make any sense. Why would they remove a popular formation? And if it's true that the Green Tide formation is still valid as long as you own the old supplement, how is it possible to reconcile which rules apply to which formations between versions of the supplement. e.g., in W!G v1.0, you couldn't mix and match relics from the main codex and the supplement, but in W!G v2.0 apparently you can?
Best list I can come up with for Orks in 1850pts is MSU spam.
Consists of waaagh band, council of waaagh
1 unit of ghaz, mad doc, but Mek in MA, 2 warlord in MA (1 Lukky stikk), 3 nobz (1 w waagh banner). They will likely outflank or move run charge across board
6 units of shoota boyz (or save 60 pts with slugga boyz)
Warboss w pk and 3x nobz on warbikes
gretchin holding home objective
Equal 1474pts
Hoping painmob has a cool formation bonus as stated like all friendly units within 6in of painboy has fnp or iwnd. To give the msu spam fnp for 244pts. Using the extra ~150 pts to sprinkle BC and PK in the msu lists.
warhead01 wrote: "Oh no! You can't play the exact same way forever and ever? You mean you may have to learn to adapt to new tactics and try out a different model?! "
That's all well and good, sure. Except, All last year I bought loads and loads more Ork boys just to run several Green tides.
I'm still in the process of painting the last 200 shoota boys.
So, ya, I'm a bit disappointed at the loss of the Green Tide.
(Ebay, how I love you...)
As was pointed out to me a page ago, it's still a legal formation. Even if it's not a current one. And I'm completely ok with not being able to apply the WAAAAGH with it on turn one if need be.
I do think you red a little too much into what I posted.
I am going to try a different list with a trukk tax, just like most all the other warbosses. Just to see what it'll do.
But you know it's more about what I enjoy pushing across the table than anything else. there's just something I find satisfying about the green tides.
And i like a few large Mobz of boyz being supported by mass artillery fire and Speshulist Boyz. And the Ork-Curion doesnt support either of these play-styles. If you run a Trukk Boyz army, its wonderful, as you where probably running a fair amount of boyz mobz anyway, but it does nothing for the rest of us.
Decurion style formations arent supposed to shoe horn you into one particular playstyle, at least if they are good (see Necrons and Eldar) or at least make that one style very, very good (Gladius) We get, decent if you take trukks. Not free trukks, not improved trukks, just a possible 1st turn charge if you take trukks.
Ya, this clinches it, im gonna re write this Orkcurion.
Vineheart01 wrote: Oh believe me im still pissed it went to a model basis and didnt get a price cut. Most expensive invul in the game. Tau MCs pay 50pts for a 4++ but thats also on an MC and a better save, so that price is justified, why the hell is the only ork invul so expensive and hard to get?
I havnt even used a KFF in eons because getting a big mek in the army is so damn difficult thanks to painboyz being an IC instead of akin to mekboyz. Random warbiker unit with a painboy is far, far better than a more expensive 5++.
And dont get me started on morkanauts. Just shy of 300pts, terrible shooting, lack of melee rules, still only a 5++.
Mogrok's Bossboyz are for spamming Big Meks, and the Formation bonus is actually decent on top of that. D3 Outflanking Acute senses units? Well if you twist my arm....
Right, its the same complaint im raising in the tactics thread. The counterargument is "just take a cad" well no duh we can take a cad, but guess what orks are so lousy we are severely gimping ourselves because we dont want to run the same damn list every game which this orkcurion style is forcing us to do.
Biker lists are impossible, Wagon lists are impossible, Dreadmob lists are impossible unless you dont use the orkcurion, which defeats the flippin' point of the update. Granted, the orcurion bonuses really dont do much for walkers/bikers, but army-wide potential fearless for bikers or army-wide run + charge for Dreadmob walkers is still very powerful...just impossible to get in a normal game. All thanks to those insane unit counts and random tax units (nobz, grots, why does the Dreadmob add a painboy?).
I shouldnt have to completely ignore formations to run a staple tactic of the orks for years upon years, and thats exactly what this update is making me do.
Also Mogrok's Bossboyz suffer from the pathetic Ghazzy sup rules (Da Boss Iz Watchin, Biggest n Da Best), which really makes me not like them. And i still think not having a warboss on bike the warlord is a suicide mission, as pretty much every other warlord option is easily dispatched.
Quick note, Mogrok's don't have either rule, that formation is from the Red Waaagh! book.
Oh, thought they had that abysmal rule too. Well that makes them alot better.
Also it would be rather funny if Da Lucky Stikk didnt say it doesnt stack with Waaagh! Banner bonus WS. Council would have a +3WS (1 from Waagh! banner, 1 from formation bonus if Waagh! banner is alive, and 1 from stikk). Thats WS9 warbosses rofl, since they also get +1 from the formation on top of the rest. Nobz would be WS7.
Rather pointless, since going beyond WS6 doesnt mean jack all, but would be funny to be able to claim that high of a WSlol
Vineheart01 wrote: Oh, thought they had that abysmal rule too. Well that makes them alot better.
Also it would be rather funny if Da Lucky Stikk didnt say it doesnt stack with Waaagh! Banner bonus WS. Council would have a +3WS (1 from Waagh! banner, 1 from formation bonus if Waagh! banner is alive, and 1 from stikk). Thats WS9 warbosses rofl, since they also get +1 from the formation on top of the rest. Nobz would be WS7.
Rather pointless, since going beyond WS6 doesnt mean jack all, but would be funny to be able to claim that high of a WSlol
Dis Warboss is da bestest fighta der is, he dueled one of dem pointy ears.
Ya pointless, but hysterical as you'd be hitting a bunch of named characters (not to mention the Nightbringer) on 4+ if not 3+.
If that's the case and it turns out to be good, then I will take back all of my complaints.
But I haven't seen a Codex rumour. Possibly because GW doesn't operate openly like that. Possibly becaues Tau didn't get a new one, just some models, IG didn't SW didn't.
I have to admit this ork detachment and update is pure jank. But what to expect from an update for the supplement when the codex is the core of all the orks problems.
Looks like my 3500pts of orks will remain unpainted and in a box until they get to a minimum level of being able to survive and compete againts Gladius/Decurion/Lion's Blade/Hunter Cadre list.
No wonder I have 3 marines army (Ultramarines, Raven Guard and Dark Angels). Dark Angels was meh before but I've only had to endure the 6th ed. codex for about 1 year and never played the older codexes.
oldzoggy wrote: Am i the only one expecting a ork codex update "soon" making this supplement suddenly really interesting.
I want to believe but my heart cannot take more disappointment.
Spoken true.
Im moving in a month or so, and since im terrible at packing in a reasonable speed i just pack things i dont think i'll need ahead of time. My gakload of orks (my siggy is what i can actually field, not what i own) are now in a box and i have 0 intentions of opening it for quite some time. 3by2by2 foot box of sprues n models..only the bitz box didnt fit in the end.
Quite frankly, even if they do something insane in the ork dex to make these formations viable and awesome, i'd still be a bit peeved because its still hardcoding me into mass boyz. One great tactic is not a great codex, its a loophole in the gak.
6" move, 6" disembarge, d6" run move (possibly re-roll with 1 in 3 chance of getting the Like a Thunderbolt warlord trait), 2d6" charge move with reroll of 1 dice, +2" from boarding planks.
6+6+d6+2+2d6 (1 re-roll)
14+3+8=25
Trukk boyz charge 25" beyond DZ onto the board on average.
Stormboyz go even faster:
12" move, 2d6" run, 2d6" charge with 1 re-roll.
12+2d6+2d6 (1 re-roll)
12+7+8=27
Stormboyz charge 27" beyond DZ onto the board on average.
Super funny but pls dn't count deployment zone as movement. Only count actual movement as movement ; )
Frozocrone wrote: If that's the case and it turns out to be good, then I will take back all of my complaints.
But I haven't seen a Codex rumour. Possibly because GW doesn't operate openly like that. Possibly becaues Tau didn't get a new one, just some models, IG didn't SW didn't.
The only way I can see this supplement being really good is a massive drop on point costs and fixes to many walkers.
But other then that this supplement focuses on boyz, walkers and nobs. Which is honestly what ghaz is known for but what I really am hoping for is a speed freak supplement.
oldzoggy wrote: Lol a white dwarf speed kulturion would be nice.
Especially if it didn;t have such an expensive core.
I want a forgeworld speed freak IA book. We need new models for buggies, traks, skorchas. Throw in the Kopta and zhardsnark maybe gun wagons or big traks with updated rules and I'll be happy.
Or maybe a mek buzzgob who allows all walkers to be half priced if he is the warlord. Not many people complained about his discounted stompa, to make a walker army viable FW could do the same for all our walker...and gw gets to sell walkers like they want.
There is also that obscure hq who is all about squigoths. After rebooting the squigoths to be descent mcs, have this guy allow peeps to take squigoths as dedicated transports if he is the warlord.
And then update znard a little.
Well, even if the speedfreak core is expensive, if its giving you warbikers as a core and not boyz it wouldnt matter. Heavily limits multi-strats but if they gave us a core based on every tactic orks can do, we could still play various tactics.
Bet the speedfreak still has a mandatory 3 boy squads and require a trukk or wagon. Admittedly, more manageable, but when i want heavy biker lists i dont want footboyz at all with or without a transport.
Also, nobody complains about the discount stompa because thats what a stompa should cost anyway. The codex stompa is grossly, GROSSLY overcosted. Which btw, we cant squeeze one into the orkurion can we? i dont remember seeing an option for a super, while eldar get to spam theirs and Tau can casually bring one in any list without really trying (if not multiple) Codex stompa is inferior to an IK in every shape except it has more HP, for more than twice the cost. Lack of a stock invul even if its only one facing and options to do more than shrug forward and slap things with its Whirrrr Click Click! gatling gun and its D choppa doesnt justify how insanely expensive it is compared to a knight. Dont get me wrong, it has some nice dakka on it, but its still BS2 so most of it misses. Also unless i missed something, its not Assault so its transport does nothing but repair shenanigans with mekspam (skyrocketing its price too)
Edit: Take that back, there is an Aux for a stompa. Not like we can do it though with over 1k core requirements
Sigh. Oh, Orks. The more details we hear, the worse you get, while Space Wolves, Tau, Eldar, Marines, and even Daemons have been buffed with their latest releases
MajorWesJanson wrote: Sigh. Oh, Orks. The more details we hear, the worse you get, while Space Wolves, Tau, Eldar, Marines, and even Daemons have been buffed with their latest releases
Well Daemons would have been if the Formations wheren't absolutely horrible. The MFD bonus is frelling amazing, its just that if your not running Slaanesh or Nurgle, your never gonna get it, and even Nurgle has to think really hard about it as 70 Plaguebearers is a big investment.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Sigh. Oh, Orks. The more details we hear, the worse you get, while Space Wolves, Tau, Eldar, Marines, and even Daemons have been buffed with their latest releases
Well Daemons would have been if the Formations wheren't absolutely horrible. The MFD bonus is frelling amazing, its just that if your not running Slaanesh or Nurgle, your never gonna get it, and even Nurgle has to think really hard about it as 70 Plaguebearers is a big investment.
They also got some nice new warlord traits and a ton of new relics, and didn't lose one of their iconic formations (apparently Green Tide is gone? Why?)
MajorWesJanson wrote: They also got some nice new warlord traits and a ton of new relics, and didn't lose one of their iconic formations (apparently Green Tide is gone? Why?)
This is true, but to be fair they didnt exactly have any formations to lose Im not saying they didnt get some nice stuff, its just that the nice stuff will only ever see the light of day in a CAD
I assume those with the most gripes play 1850 and only 1850 lists? So tourney folk. If so, sorry.
None of the new Formation Detachments appear to cater to that crowd even though some are quite doable. It's obvious the intent is for bigger and bigger games (meaning the purchase of more and more models).
. Making everything fearless for every turn post t2, having a 2+ invuln, letting 
Ha. Ha ha ha ha ha ha. 
