I kind of wish FW had just redone Mad Donna. That miniature is going to look dated as hell next to the new Eschers.
Isn't the timeline still in sync with 40K? All the original Necromunda characters are dead, this is over a century later.
Why would they bother doing that? It needlessly pisses off vets and adds nothing of value, since even in the wildest throes of inadvisable greed I doubt they're going to add Primarchs, Primaris, and Custodes to Necromunda. Besides which, they've already shown the timeline advance thing is BS in 40K - any of the characters they still think are marketable have somehow survived, despite that requiring some pretty gargantuan leaps to justify in some cases "oh they must have been lost in the warp, oh they must have gotten some super-duper-rare never-before mentioned version of Juvenat that works even better than normal Juvenat, oh err, timey-wimey stuff maybe?", so there's no reason they wouldn't just say any such characters in Necromunda have also survived, someway somehow just don't think about it too hard
I kind of wish FW had just redone Mad Donna. That miniature is going to look dated as hell next to the new Eschers.
Isn't the timeline still in sync with 40K? All the original Necromunda characters are dead, this is over a century later.
Why would they bother doing that? It needlessly pisses off vets and adds nothing of value, since even in the wildest throes of inadvisable greed I doubt they're going to add Primarchs, Primaris, and Custodes to Necromunda. Besides which, they've already shown the timeline advance thing is BS in 40K - any of the characters they still think are marketable have somehow survived, despite that requiring some pretty gargantuan leaps to justify in some cases "oh they must have been lost in the warp, oh they must have gotten some super-duper-rare never-before mentioned version of Juvenat that works even better than normal Juvenat, oh err, timey-wimey stuff maybe?", so there's no reason they wouldn't just say any such characters in Necromunda have also survived, someway somehow just don't think about it too hard
Is all that necessary? The Eisenhorn series showed us living over a century is pretty standard for any better off citizen, and living 4 centuries or more and being combat effective is not uncommon amongst high status individuals like Inquisitors. Commissar Yarrick being 350 years old or something is far from implausible in that context.
Haighus wrote: Is all that necessary? The Eisenhorn series showed us living over a century is pretty standard for any better off citizen, and living 4 centuries or more and being combat effective is not uncommon amongst high status individuals like Inquisitors. Commissar Yarrick being 350 years old or something is far from implausible in that context.
It's even more easy than this, Guilliman is already trying to tidy up the Imperial dating as it turns out to be wildly innacurate. Necromunda characters still alive? Simple, Necromunda's timeline was never accurate anyway!!!
I kind of wish FW had just redone Mad Donna. That miniature is going to look dated as hell next to the new Eschers.
Isn't the timeline still in sync with 40K? All the original Necromunda characters are dead, this is over a century later.
Why would they bother doing that? It needlessly pisses off vets and adds nothing of value, since even in the wildest throes of inadvisable greed I doubt they're going to add Primarchs, Primaris, and Custodes to Necromunda. Besides which, they've already shown the timeline advance thing is BS in 40K - any of the characters they still think are marketable have somehow survived, despite that requiring some pretty gargantuan leaps to justify in some cases "oh they must have been lost in the warp, oh they must have gotten some super-duper-rare never-before mentioned version of Juvenat that works even better than normal Juvenat, oh err, timey-wimey stuff maybe?", so there's no reason they wouldn't just say any such characters in Necromunda have also survived, someway somehow just don't think about it too hard
Is all that necessary? The Eisenhorn series showed us living over a century is pretty standard for any better off citizen, and living 4 centuries or more and being combat effective is not uncommon amongst high status individuals like Inquisitors. Commissar Yarrick being 350 years old or something is far from implausible in that context.
Well yes, but I'm not so sure living in the Necromunda hives down below the rest attemptin to murder and kill each other is very better off.
True, but we are talking about legendary underhivers, famous for their ability to survive and wealth. There are millions of people living down there, a handful being successful enough to afford rejuvenat treatment and live for centuries doesn't seem especially far fetched to me.
BrookM wrote: I worry that if I order a Mad Donna they'll re-release her not long afterwards or something.
They haven't re-released any other models that have been part of the Made to Order scheme, so don't worry. There might be a new model, but that's not the same thing; if you like that old model, go ahead and buy it.
I kind of wish FW had just redone Mad Donna. That miniature is going to look dated as hell next to the new Eschers.
Isn't the timeline still in sync with 40K? All the original Necromunda characters are dead, this is over a century later.
Why would they bother doing that? It needlessly pisses off vets and adds nothing of value, since even in the wildest throes of inadvisable greed I doubt they're going to add Primarchs, Primaris, and Custodes to Necromunda. Besides which, they've already shown the timeline advance thing is BS in 40K - any of the characters they still think are marketable have somehow survived, despite that requiring some pretty gargantuan leaps to justify in some cases "oh they must have been lost in the warp, oh they must have gotten some super-duper-rare never-before mentioned version of Juvenat that works even better than normal Juvenat, oh err, timey-wimey stuff maybe?", so there's no reason they wouldn't just say any such characters in Necromunda have also survived, someway somehow just don't think about it too hard
Is all that necessary? The Eisenhorn series showed us living over a century is pretty standard for any better off citizen, and living 4 centuries or more and being combat effective is not uncommon amongst high status individuals like Inquisitors. Commissar Yarrick being 350 years old or something is far from implausible in that context.
I disagree. There's a difference between age and time - Juvenat can only do so much, and when its effects are depicted on people who are "temporally static" ie not engaging in substantial amounts of warp travel or other timey-wimey shenanigans, they tend to be at the life support chair-bound and incontinent stage by around 300. If you want to get much beyond that as a baseline human, you pretty much have to be a high ranking Techpriest. Besides which, many of the characters who were alive in old-40K were already at the multiple century mark, so adding another couple on there without some additional fluff explanation would leave very few of them in any kind of state even approaching "combat effective". Not to mention that the Imperium has suddenly become very safety conscious, you'd expect at least one or two of the big names to have bought the big one or at least had some limbs torn off over two hundred years.
If we were talking about them keeping around a handful of the more plausible ones transitioned into "elder statesmen" kind of roles in the fiction, that'd be fine, but just like with the rest of the nu-40K "lore" it's all talk and no nadgers if it proves inconvenient - everyone gets Primaris whether it makes sense based on their prior story & character or not, the Rift is the riftiest rift that ever rifted until a story or model release needs them to cross it and oh looky, they can cross it, and whenever the time skip might be an issue they just gloss over or outright ignore it.
Regardless though, we're not talking about high-status, uphive nobility here. The big names in Necromunda were largely scum or exiles, existing in an environment where they were evidently struggling to find bolter ammo - where are folk like that getting incredibly expensive and rare life extension tech from? Maybe you can come up with a plausible tale for one or two, but for even half of the recognisable characters from Necromunda as-was to survive two centuries and still be capable of dealing with the Underhive you'd have to contort yourself into a four-dimensional hypertorus.
I kind of wish FW had just redone Mad Donna. That miniature is going to look dated as hell next to the new Eschers.
Forge World may well do another Mad Donna - this has no bearing on that. It's just a short run of old miniatures, that's all. I mean, they did the old Assassin model from 1st edition a while back, and that didn't affect the production of the current Eversor Assassin.
Call it a Dread Pirate Roberts thing and let it go. I think it's asking to much for the limited re-release of archived figs to jive with 40Ks rubber timeline. As for dudes like Yarrick? Meh, whatevs, they're old, and no design workshop with any sense is going to dump popular characters from popular armies because of the fluff. I think GW will happily live with a small contingent of disgruntled fluff truthers (no offense gentlemen). Everyone else is, generallly speaking, pretty gruntled at the mo'.
Me? I like that GW does the limited release of old stuff - it services some of the long time fans who already own multiple gangs and whatnot and want to fill out their collections.
People have GW2 now right? Is the recurring hire fee really 280 credits on this guy or is that a one off fee and there are other rules for retaining hired guns?
Charax wrote: especially as both Kal and Donna were members of the noble houses
Kal's mum is also an Inquisitor IIRC and so has access to whatever she wants and he did do some work for her......so some juvenat would not be a stretch - if not well a juvenat heist seems fine.
disagree. There's a difference between age and time - Juvenat can only do so much, and when its effects are depicted on people who are "temporally static" ie not engaging in substantial amounts of warp travel or other timey-wimey shenanigans, they tend to be at the life support chair-bound and incontinent stage by around 300.
However they are usually in that state because of war wounds, Cain and Amberely don't seem to suffer for their age.
Charax wrote: especially as both Kal and Donna were members of the noble houses
Kal's mum is also an Inquisitor IIRC and so has access to whatever she wants and he did do some work for her......so some juvenat would not be a stretch - if not well a juvenat heist seems fine.
Not only that - he's
Spoiler:
the illegitimate son of the governor of Necromunda
Having said that, I wouldn't read that much into this; they're releasing old miniatures, not re-introducing the characters into the game. We've not seen any new miniatures so far for old characters, although I'm sure the same archetypes that those old characters embodied will be used again.
On a related note, I've got the Kal Jerico comics and novels that Black Library released, which cover his doings in the Underhive (and Hive City, and the Spire, for that matter), but where were the stories about his goings-on with the Inquisition published? I've only read that part of his background on Lexicanum.
Charax wrote: especially as both Kal and Donna were members of the noble houses
Kal's mum is also an Inquisitor IIRC and so has access to whatever she wants and he did do some work for her......so some juvenat would not be a stretch - if not well a juvenat heist seems fine.
Not only that - he's
Spoiler:
the illegitimate son of the governor of Necromunda
Having said that, I wouldn't read that much into this; they're releasing old miniatures, not re-introducing the characters into the game. We've not seen any new miniatures so far for old characters, although I'm sure the same archetypes that those old characters embodied will be used again.
On a related note, I've got the Kal Jerico comics and novels that Black Library released, which cover his doings in the Underhive (and Hive City, and the Spire, for that matter), but where were the stories about his goings-on with the Inquisition published? I've only read that part of his background on Lexicanum.
I think it was Warhammer Monthly but I am not sure as not at home - if time will have a look at lunch time.
Don't suppose anyone has seen anything about them finally sorting an FAQ?
That is most definitly the upgrade sprue because while Orlocks do come with a lot of new weapons and some common weapons, the box only include those weapons that are 'themed' to Orlocks. What you see in the picture is a wide variety of special weapons (meltas, flamers, plasmas) and other less common weapons like hand flamer, not typical for Orlock, so not available in the box, but instead sold separately (in the near future hopefully).
Vorian wrote: People have GW2 now right? Is the recurring hire fee really 280 credits on this guy or is that a one off fee and there are other rules for retaining hired guns?
GW2 is not out yet.
I would expect the price to be for one game. I've played only a handful of game so far (4-5) and got almost 600 credits to spare. If it wasn't for bounty hunters, I'd have nothing to spend them on!
You'll earn D6x10 per champion/leader per game (if you didn't get them injuried or had to take someone else to the doc) + D6x10 per turf each 'cycle'. On average, it could take 2-3 games to get enough money to buy one of those bounty hunters. Did you expect to be able to afford one more often than that?
I'm pretty sure you have lots of better thing to spend on (beside weapon) like Armor undersuited, more Ammor Cache, ammunition, grenade., Bio booster, Google, Med Kit.....
Do Bounty Hunters come in the category of 'Hired Guns'? I would guess so.
Chopstick wrote: I'm pretty sure you have lots of better thing to spend on (beside weapon) like Armor undersuited, more Ammor Cache, ammunition, grenade., Bio booster, Google, Med Kit.....
I play wysiwyg so I already got all the weapons the models comes with from start. Sure I could add nades, but with their short range I prefer to Charge instead. Armoured undersuit could be useful, actually forgot to add it to my combined rules document so never thought about it.
Chopstick wrote: Hired scum are extremely good extra body for your gang. You pay 30 credit for a ganger with equip. They are also good meat shield
With 30 credit you can only afford a Juve with some cheap equip. Juves are lmited and not very good at being meat shield.
Do you have to pay the 60 creds for their equipment as well as the 30 creds base hire - I was not sure on that?
Yep. 30 for the model, up to 60 for the gear. Juves are about 25 I think and have limited access to equipment, gangers are 30 as well I think. So I guess a hive scum is if you want another ganger but don't have one.
Juves are about 25 I think and have limited access to equipment, gangers are 30 as well I think. So I guess a hive scum is if you want another ganger but don't have one.
Ganger are more than double the price of Juves. If they're 30 ganger spam will be dominant.
Scum are there to make up numbers - you're getting the equivalent of a ganger worth over 100 credits for 30; bargain. Bounty Hunters are for when you need someone with "a particular set of skills".
AndrewGPaul wrote: On a related note, I've got the Kal Jerico comics and novels that Black Library released, which cover his doings in the Underhive (and Hive City, and the Spire, for that matter), but where were the stories about his goings-on with the Inquisition published? I've only read that part of his background on Lexicanum.
'Kal Jerico: Above and Beyond' in Warhammer Monthly #56-59 & 64-68.
Note that this run was not included in Kal Jerico: Underhive Bounty Hunter, despite that book's description claiming to be a complete collection.
H.B.M.C. wrote: So you think you pay 90 credits for a single-use Hired Gun?
What would be the purpose of a hired gun then?
Technically it would be 35-90 credits, assuming the cheapest is 5 credits. You don't have to buy 60 credits worth of equipment, just up to that amount.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: Technically it would be 35-90 credits, assuming the cheapest is 5 credits. You don't have to buy 60 credits worth of equipment, just up to that amount.
And again, what would be the purpose? Wouldn't you be better off spending the same (or often less) than that on permanent gang members?
The 60 simply cannot be something that your gang pays for. That doesn't make conceptual sense.
I doubt that the weapons are free. They should be because they are members of a single use, but then the named characters would not make sense their price
Chopstick wrote: Actually, now I think about it, you might actually have to pay for the gear. "Purchased the same way as any other fighters"
A hive scum with Autogun is still cheaper than a naked ganger from any houses.
Aye but a Ganger is yours forever. I read it as you having to pay for gear as well, but if so I don't see Hired Guns getting any use outside of very specific niche situations when a handful of additional credits will get you pretty much the same thing but permanently.
Chopstick wrote: Actually, now I think about it, you might actually have to pay for the gear. "Purchased the same way as any other fighters"
A hive scum with Autogun is still cheaper than a naked ganger from any houses.
Thing is, unless the ganger gets killed the first battle, you get to keep it, whereas you'd need to pay the same cost again for the hive scum with Autogun before each new battle.
Somehow, it doesn't seem to be worth the investment.
Somehow, it doesn't seem to be worth the investment.
They had their use, Hired Gun are guaranteed extra bodies on the field if you are in a scenario where Random Selection is in place. You are not guaranteed to get the Ganger/Leader/Champ you want in those scenario.
They just get more situational if their hire cost was that high. For about the same price hiring a Hanger on is a better deal.
Somehow, it doesn't seem to be worth the investment.
They had their use, Hired Gun are guaranteed extra bodies on the field if you are in a scenario where Random Selection is in place. You are not guaranteed to get the Ganger/Leader/Champ you want in those scenario.
They just get more situational if their hire cost was that high. For about the same price hiring a Hanger on is a better deal.
The hive scum's stats are nothing to write home about, either... they're just general gangers without house bonuses (so less tough and strong than Goliaths, slower than Eschers, etc), so although being able to get the exact weapon you wanted fielded, well... I don't think it's worth the extreme expense even them, as you'll be paying 30 credits + the loadout you wanted fielded's cost for it to be there for that single battle and nevermore.
The price is not the problem (price seems fair, maybe the hive scum are too cheap and the bounty hunters are a bit over priced but they have more skills and weapons for multiple purposes). The problem is the underdog system. Fix that, and the price works fine.
Wow GW's leaning on Fallout's aesthetic and cartoon 1950s style... that poster.... come on. It's probably one idiot on the design team that goaded them into following that style
Bounty Hunter could be any models. I saw them as a gang of champions from different houses(altho the stat might not be as good), plus some forgeworld extra. Definitely a colorful gang.
Scout shotguns come on gorilla arms that really don't look good on human torsos and the DW gun is both on power armor arms and rare. There's 4 rotary guns on a sprue and it can pass as a shotgun or bolter as needed.
DW shotgun hand and arm are separated. (thumb stuck on arm, that need to be cut)
Scout shotgun would be very easy to sever the hand and attach to whatever arm you prefer.
Problem is the forestock arm might be misaligned, need some work.
The hand size might be slightly different but it wouldn't be a problem.
There are actually only 3 Shotgun on a Orlock sprue, so you get 6 in a box. Not sure about using them as bolt gun proxy tho, Scout Bolt Gun again look perfect for the role.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Scout shotguns come on gorilla arms that really don't look good on human torsos and the DW gun is both on power armor arms and rare. There's 4 rotary guns on a sprue and it can pass as a shotgun or bolter as needed.
I've given this just a little thought...
GSC neophytes are a great source of "human" shotguns.
Also, the human bloodbowl team makes a great base for arbites, and is cheaper than scions.
Somehow, it doesn't seem to be worth the investment.
They had their use, Hired Gun are guaranteed extra bodies on the field if you are in a scenario where Random Selection is in place. You are not guaranteed to get the Ganger/Leader/Champ you want in those scenario.
They just get more situational if their hire cost was that high. For about the same price hiring a Hanger on is a better deal.
The hive scum's stats are nothing to write home about, either... they're just general gangers without house bonuses (so less tough and strong than Goliaths, slower than Eschers, etc), so although being able to get the exact weapon you wanted fielded, well... I don't think it's worth the extreme expense even them, as you'll be paying 30 credits + the loadout you wanted fielded's cost for it to be there for that single battle and nevermore.
Not feeling it, TBH.
They do have the advantage of being expendable though. Far less of a loss than a permanent ganger, so they can be a go-to to say advance up the center, or fight a desparate rearguard, or other relatively suicidal roles that you might not want to send a more valuable ganger to do.
If you have to also pay for their equipment they are hardly saving you any money over just buying a ganger so it's not really far less of a loss. It's a bit less of a loss abs one that is certain to happen.
If it really is base cost + equipment cost as a hire fee then they are pretty much just pointless. There's no sugar coating it!
MajorWesJanson wrote: They do have the advantage of being expendable though. Far less of a loss than a permanent ganger, so they can be a go-to to say advance up the center, or fight a desparate rearguard, or other relatively suicidal roles that you might not want to send a more valuable ganger to do.
Or you could get a juve for that very same role. If it dies, well, you lose the same credits you would have spent on a hive scum hiring, and if it survives, you save up your hard earned credits.
I mean, how much more expendable are they than a cheaper (or at best as expensive) juve, really?
Juve are best not using as meat shield, but as runner and skill hoarding investment, avoid combat as much as they can. they are limited recruit and you are not 100% sure to have them on the field in every battle, because random selection.
Hired gun are not a good spent early, but it's always nice to have extra body on the field later. Especially in battle you don't want to lose like Rescue.
Chopstick wrote:Juve are best not using as meat shield, but as runner and skill hoarding investment, avoid combat as much as they can. they are limited recruit and you are not 100% sure to have them on the field in every battle, because random selection.
Hired gun are not a good spent early, but it's always nice to have extra body on the field later. Especially in battle you don't want to lose like Rescue.
I'm not sure that random selection is that big of a factor, but fair enough. I would agree that it feels more worth it afterwards when you have better gangers overall.
bubber wrote:anyone else tempted to use these parts on the Orlocks?
Doc. It's already fairly rare to have a ganger killed, I fear that with them, fights will turn into pillow wars.
Goliath being kicked out because he was clever!!! Hope there is a better reason than that, cause this is lame. Since when did the goliath turned into Orks?
well it's clear why a bounty hunter might be worth taking now
You can hire them just before the game after you know the enemy gang.
They can have everything (skills/weapons ) you want and you can design them to be the nemesis of the opposing gang (countering enemy skills/setup).
I honestly don't recall this bit of lore in the old edition. But there's a difference between prefering Strenght to cunnningness, and exiling someone only cause he's cunning . As I said, there is probably more to it than that (maybe he use treachery instead of strenght of arms), so I'll wait for the whole story.
endtransmission wrote: Waaaaaait a minute. Did he just confirm that Squats were never eaten and are technically still around and fine?
I mean, that's not too different from what's been said before where it was only the "homeworld" of the Squats that got eaten and there still being enclaves or whatever of the little blighters around.
endtransmission wrote: Waaaaaait a minute. Did he just confirm that Squats were never eaten and are technically still around and fine?
I mean, that's not too different from what's been said before where it was only the "homeworld" of the Squats that got eaten and there still being enclaves or whatever of the little blighters around.
Yeah, squats have been mentioned in a couple of main rulebooks for 40k now, as an abhuman strain. I think they have basically just been toned down massively, from a semi-independent vassal state of the IoM into more typical abhumans, albeit valuable ones.
streetsamurai wrote:Seems like it
Two things I don't like
Doc. It's already fairly rare to have a ganger killed, I fear that with them, fights will turn into pillow wars.
Goliath being kicked out because he was clever!!! Hope there is a better reason than that, cause this is lame. Since when did the goliath turned into Orks?
I suspect it wasn't that he was clever, but that he was the wrong person to be clever. He was likely some rebellious slave-worker, so got shoved into being a ganger, where he turned out to be too smart for his station. Therefore exiled. Basically, higher-ups often don't like smart underlings, so sideline them (especially if the underling is threatening the supervisor's own position). This happens plenty in real life, does not seem unplausible for Necromunda.
See, I wish they would just admit that they changed their minds in order to flog Squats for nostalgiabucks, rather than lying about the whole Tyranids thing just being a joke no honest guv haha. You can look up Jervis' comments on the matter on the internet archive, and the "eaten by 'nids" thing being the studio's view on the their fate is presented as a matter of fact not a silly wee in-joke.
Yodhrin wrote: See, I wish they would just admit that they changed their minds in order to flog Squats for nostalgiabucks, rather than lying about the whole Tyranids thing just being a joke no honest guv haha. You can look up Jervis' comments on the matter on the internet archive, and the "eaten by 'nids" thing being the studio's view on the their fate is presented as a matter of fact not a silly wee in-joke.
I am not really bothered, so long as they are returned in a way that works better than the original, with either more identity, or less independence form the IoM. I'd also like Demiurgs too, cos I like aliens. More targets for the Ordo Xenos...
Having said that, Squats were squatted before I got into 40k, so my point of view may be more nonchalant than those who lost their army!
Yodhrin wrote: See, I wish they would just admit that they changed their minds in order to flog Squats for nostalgiabucks, rather than lying about the whole Tyranids thing just being a joke no honest guv haha. You can look up Jervis' comments on the matter on the internet archive, and the "eaten by 'nids" thing being the studio's view on the their fate is presented as a matter of fact not a silly wee in-joke.
I am not really bothered, so long as they are returned in a way that works better than the original, with either more identity, or less independence form the IoM. I'd also like Demiurgs too, cos I like aliens. More targets for the Ordo Xenos...
Having said that, Squats were squatted before I got into 40k, so my point of view may be more nonchalant than those who lost their army!
Oh I'm not so much bothered by the Squats' return(I'm not fond of them, but they're as ignorable as any of the other things about 41K I'm not fond of), it's that comments like that will be used by a certain kind of forumite to browbeat people who are bothered or who preferred the "eaten" fluff with this "that thing you believe was just a stupid meme and never actually happened" sentiment that's been going around lately, but in this case it categorically was not a meme or a misconception or anything of the sort.
Yodhrin wrote: See, I wish they would just admit that they changed their minds in order to flog Squats for nostalgiabucks, rather than lying about the whole Tyranids thing just being a joke no honest guv haha. You can look up Jervis' comments on the matter on the internet archive, and the "eaten by 'nids" thing being the studio's view on the their fate is presented as a matter of fact not a silly wee in-joke.
What codex or novel described the squats being wiped out by Tyranids?
Yodhrin wrote: See, I wish they would just admit that they changed their minds in order to flog Squats for nostalgiabucks, rather than lying about the whole Tyranids thing just being a joke no honest guv haha. You can look up Jervis' comments on the matter on the internet archive, and the "eaten by 'nids" thing being the studio's view on the their fate is presented as a matter of fact not a silly wee in-joke.
I am not really bothered, so long as they are returned in a way that works better than the original, with either more identity, or less independence form the IoM. I'd also like Demiurgs too, cos I like aliens. More targets for the Ordo Xenos...
Having said that, Squats were squatted before I got into 40k, so my point of view may be more nonchalant than those who lost their army!
Oh I'm not so much bothered by the Squats' return(I'm not fond of them, but they're as ignorable as any of the other things about 41K I'm not fond of), it's that comments like that will be used by a certain kind of forumite to browbeat people who are bothered or who preferred the "eaten" fluff with this "that thing you believe was just a stupid meme and never actually happened" sentiment that's been going around lately, but in this case it categorically was not a meme or a misconception or anything of the sort.
Do people really get upset when someone they'll never meet says their made up stuff isn't as real as someone else's made up stuff? The fate of the Squats was just Jervis getting fed up with people banging on with the same tedious question all the time. The Squat bounty hunter is there because Andy Hoare is an Oldhammer fan, that's all.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
H.B.M.C. wrote: Yeah I can't think of a single piece of fluff that ever mentioned the Squats being eaten.
It was referred to in the additional material added to the beginning and end of the Black Library editions of Ian Watson's Inquisitor (republished as Draco). However, by this time those novels were already in contradiction with the 2000s-era background - Grymm the Squat had been retconned into Grill the techpriest in the Warped Stars short sstory at that point - so I wouldn't like to say that adds any sort of "officialness" to the idea.
You can hire them just before the game after you know the enemy gang.
They can have everything (skills/weapons ) you want and you can design them to be the nemesis of the opposing gang (countering enemy skills/setup).
You recruit a BH the same way you recruit any Hired Guns. During the pre-battle sequence step 1 : Buy Advancement and recruit Hired gun, before a scenario and crew is chosen. Page 20 Gang War 1.
Yodhrin wrote: See, I wish they would just admit that they changed their minds in order to flog Squats for nostalgiabucks, rather than lying about the whole Tyranids thing just being a joke no honest guv haha. You can look up Jervis' comments on the matter on the internet archive, and the "eaten by 'nids" thing being the studio's view on the their fate is presented as a matter of fact not a silly wee in-joke.
What codex or novel described the squats being wiped out by Tyranids?
Like AndrewGPaul said there wasn't much. The timeline IIRC was somthing like:
1st edition & Epic - Squats are a faction on par with Eldar, Orks and Imperium
2nd edition - Squats get a starter army list, a promise of a codex and new models but they never happen. Old squats go OOP.
3rd edition - Squats disappear without a mention.
Squats are regularly mocked in interviews.
Eventually Squats got a few specialist game rules for Necromunda and Epic, and Jarvis Johnson did an article saying most Squats were eaten by nids/died due to low birthrate/assimilated into the Imperium and suggested playing your old squats as Orks or IG.
Ian Watson's old short story Warped Stars is edited to change Squat Grimm into Techpriest Grill.
Ian Watson's novel Inquisitor is reprinted with an added note that it is full of lies and that the Tyranids put an end to the Squats long ago.
6th edition? - Squats are mentioned in an appendix.
Today - Squats return with one model for Necromunda which puts us about where we were in 2002 no?
They were making a joke about page 5 and how they were running out of stuff that could follow Squats.
Andy: Space slann is where we're going to have to take it.
Ceri: Or plastic sisters!
Andy: (pulls face and whispers) I don't think you're meant to say that
Ceri: (whispering back)Iit's fine. Then moved on to joke about the clock
Looking over the Orlock pre-order stuff and it does not look like they have the pre printed fighter cards like the gangs that came with the boxed game.
I was hoping the tactics cards would include those for more accessibility for new players and also for fast pick up games.
Moosey2Juicy wrote: Looking over the Orlock pre-order stuff and it does not look like they have the pre printed fighter cards like the gangs that came with the boxed game.
I was hoping the tactics cards would include those for more accessibility for new players and also for fast pick up games.
He said there was going to be a PDF which was a premade gang similar to the ones you got in the boxed game - already in the hands of the community team and just waiting for them to release it
Doc. It's already fairly rare to have a ganger killed, I fear that with them, fights will turn into pillow wars.
Goliath being kicked out because he was clever!!! Hope there is a better reason than that, cause this is lame. Since when did the goliath turned into Orks?
Everyone keeps telling me its hard to lose people, but im now on my 3rd escher gang in 12 games
1st gang lasted 8 rounds before having 1 champ 1 juve killed in one match, 2 gangers dying in next and I was out of money to afford their doctor bills, boss killed in the match following
2nd gang lasted 4 had 1 champ insta gibbed, 1 ganger insta gibbed and 2 gangers needing doctor trip in 1 turn so couldn't even bottle out.
If you have no money and are constantly losing champs so cant make money out of action becomes a 1/6 chance really of dying. My new tactic it seems is going to just be have an unarmed ganger just jump of building every game and retreat for about 6 games to catch up.
Dunno if we are playing rules too harshly though, from way we read it if you have someone get the 66 result and die, and your team bottles out you lose that persons gear, and my friends have a habit of insta gibbing my 220 point champs.
Vorian wrote: They were making a joke about page 5 and how they were running out of stuff that could follow Squats.
Andy: Space slann is where we're going to have to take it.
Ceri: Or plastic sisters!
Andy: (pulls face and whispers) I don't think you're meant to say that
Ceri: (whispering back)Iit's fine. Then moved on to joke about the clock
BrookM wrote: Space Slann are something of a joke of Andy, he features them a lot on his personal blog.
Space Slann were an actual thing in the Rogue Trader days. Stats, models and all.
Seems like a bit more mockery of Squats/Sisters players by being on the nose about one upping them with a more obscure cut faction.
Kid_Kyoto wrote:Ian Watson's old short story Warped Stars is edited to change Squat Grimm into Techpriest Grill.
What a weird thing to change. In the original print of that (or Inquisitor) he's openly contemptuous of the Techpriest attitude toward technology and just bangs the engine he's working on open and fixes it like a sane person. Given how incompatible large parts of Watson's books are with 40k retcons and development, I don't know why they'd bother.
Space Slann was just a joke, the noteworthy thing was how awkward it was when plastic sisters came up.
Obviously plastic sisters is an ongoing joke on twitch, but Andy's reaction suggested to me that he was aware they were coming and thought they'd be getting in trouble for talking about them - whereas Ceri knew it was an ongoing joke and the comment wouldn't be taken seriously.
Just one random guy's interpretation of the exchange
Voss wrote: Space Slann were an actual thing in the Rogue Trader days. Stats, models and all.
Seems like a bit more mockery of Squats/Sisters players by being on the nose about one upping them with a more obscure cut faction.
My very first 40K love! Of course, the models were almost impossible to find in the U.S. at the time. And to be fair, they have appeared in artwork in a couple rulebooks since (4th and 6th?).
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Just look at those beauties!
And regarding the conversation, yes, there appear to be some very aggressive deductions being made from a conversation in which Sisters were mentioned alongside Space Slann.
Vorian wrote: Space Slann was just a joke, the noteworthy thing was how awkward it was when plastic sisters came up.
Obviously plastic sisters is an ongoing joke on twitch, but Andy's reaction suggested to me that he was aware they were coming and thought they'd be getting in trouble for talking about them - whereas Ceri knew it was an ongoing joke and the comment wouldn't be taken seriously.
Just one random guy's interpretation of the exchange
Or it was more scripted trolling and Andy's just not that good at faux-banter.
And also: aha, so it's Twitch chat that's fuelling GW's troll-marketing nonsense, why am I not surprised.
Yodhrin wrote: See, I wish they would just admit that they changed their minds in order to flog Squats for nostalgiabucks, rather than lying about the whole Tyranids thing just being a joke no honest guv haha. You can look up Jervis' comments on the matter on the internet archive, and the "eaten by 'nids" thing being the studio's view on the their fate is presented as a matter of fact not a silly wee in-joke.
What codex or novel described the squats being wiped out by Tyranids?
That's the thing, it was a reply to a letter in WD as I recall. It has never been made canon, it also hasn't been explicitly mentioned since that one off-hand remark.
But because GW basically started writing squats out of things and generally ignoring them until an off-hand mention in 5th edition (I think that was when they were mentioned as an abhuman strain again) people just sort of assumed that it was true and that one off-hand remark morphed and mutated in to its own thing over time with most folks not knowing the original source. But I don't think GW ever formalized it (at least I can't recall it beyond that tongue-in-cheek reply).
There is also this old specialist games thread where JJ goes in to the behind-the-scenes reasons (I guess you could call this formalizing the "eaten by nids" thing, though even he says it was done in a way to bring them back later if they wished).
That said, I'm glad the little blighters are making a comeback in Necro, it's the perfect place for them. Here's hoping GW sees the opportunity and gives 'em a gang release (I'd even take a resin one to be honest). May have to drag my Forge Fathers out of storage while I wait for Van Saar to drop.
So, the Orlock gang box set shows you how to build the 'named' figures. But there's no character cards for them or stats. Nor is there any character cards in the pack of cards. There's no downloadable cards on the Necromunda website.
Have GW forgotten these or is there a future release?
I read somewhere that the points on the first set of cards don't match to the rulebook points. Seeing as though myself, wife and lad are using those character cards 'as is' out of the starter box I was hoping these named Orlock figures would have cards. Even the 'Orlock' book doesn't have them - just loads of Bounty Hunters.
Have GW forgotten these or is there a future release?
I read somewhere that the points on the first set of cards don't match to the rulebook points. Seeing as though myself, wife and lad are using those character cards 'as is' out of the starter box I was hoping these named Orlock figures would have cards. Even the 'Orlock' book doesn't have them - just loads of Bounty Hunters.
Card from underhive box use point from Underhive rulebook, which is different from Gang war.
Points change, so does profile, expect your printed character card became obsolete after a few books.
If you have Underhive box you should have plenty of blank card to make your own gang, or you can just print your own, just make sure a whole gang use the same type of "card"
Don't even know why people even bother with pre-made gang, half of the fun from Necromunda come from making your own character, your own stories for them and get a feel of attachment to your ganger. The pre-made gang are neither balanced. optimized or competitive and could lead to very negative playing experience.
Although, GW should have given more blank character card ( at leat 20) in their gang tactic card pack, which itself is expensive.
beast_gts wrote: Am I reading Gang War 2 right - Orlocks don't get Specialsits?
Did you read Gang War 1?
Yes I did. The Goliath & Escher lists both include the line "When the gang is created, one Ganger can equipped with a Special Weapon; during the campaign, additional Gangers can also take Special Weapons" but that's missing from the Orlock list.
beast_gts wrote: Am I reading Gang War 2 right - Orlocks don't get Specialsits?
Did you read Gang War 1?
Yes I did. The Goliath & Escher lists both include the line "When the gang is created, one Ganger can equipped with a Special Weapon; during the campaign, additional Gangers can also take Special Weapons" but that's missing from the Orlock list.
And that had anything to do with "Orlock don't get Specialist?" Ganger become Specialist are still there, that's why they have a skill table for them.
lord_blackfang wrote: Specialists and Special Weapons have nothing to do with each other other than an unfortunate naming convergance.
And that explains that :-) - Someone in gaming group decided that Specialist = Ganger with Special Weapon and we all just went with it. I've now found the box on P.17 (of Gang War 1).
Automatically Appended Next Post: So, can any Goliath & Escher Ganger take a Special Weapon (if they find them at the Trading Post), but Orlocks can't?
Have GW forgotten these or is there a future release?
I read somewhere that the points on the first set of cards don't match to the rulebook points. Seeing as though myself, wife and lad are using those character cards 'as is' out of the starter box I was hoping these named Orlock figures would have cards. Even the 'Orlock' book doesn't have them - just loads of Bounty Hunters.
Card from underhive box use point from Underhive rulebook, which is different from Gang war.
Points change, so does profile, expect your printed character card became obsolete after a few books.
I thought both of those books came out on the same day. I'm sure I pre-ordered them together and got them on release day. Different points in each book released at the same time? Meh.
Don't even know why people even bother with pre-made gang, half of the fun from Necromunda come from making your own character, your own stories for them and get a feel of attachment to your ganger. The pre-made gang are neither balanced. optimized or competitive and could lead to very negative playing experience.
I disagree with that. Ask my opponents (my wife and kid) who would rather open the box and play than sit with books and points max/min'ing for ages before hand. We play casual.
Rather annoying that I need 20 blank cards to fix the ones in the starter set and 10 more for orlocks. Have GW made a downloadable one for us?
Gimgamgoo wrote: Rather annoying that I need 20 blank cards to fix the ones in the starter set and 10 more for orlocks. Have GW made a downloadable one for us?
[MOD EDIT - Dakka Dakka in no way condones IP infringement of any sort - Alpharius]
Chopstick wrote: Went back and check the page, yes Orlock ganger can't take Heavy or Special weapon. RAW Escher and Goliath ganger can but they probably shouldn't.
Gimgamgoo wrote: Rather annoying that I need 20 blank cards to fix the ones in the starter set and 10 more for orlocks. Have GW made a downloadable one for us?
[MOD EDIT - Dakka Dakka in no way condones IP infringement of any sort - Alpharius]
If sharing the sort of stuff they used to tell us to photocopy with abandon is now banned IP infringement, this hobby really is going down the drain.
I disagree with that. Ask my opponents (my wife and kid) who would rather open the box and play than sit with books and points max/min'ing for ages before hand. We play casual.
Rather annoying that I need 20 blank cards to fix the ones in the starter set and 10 more for orlocks. Have GW made a downloadable one for us?
If your partner are too lazy to make their own gang, you make the gang for them. You look at the "named" model, you write down the gear. Or do a quick "survey" , you ask what they want, give them your suggestion (leader should take these and these, ganger should take these etc...) to speed thing up. then you write the character card. Do it a few days before the actual game day.
Any info on the made to order minatures for this week only? The sculpts and paint job seem pretty bad sadly. I was interested at first til I saw the close up view.
erzengal wrote: Any info on the made to order minatures for this week only? The sculpts and paint job seem pretty bad sadly. I was interested at first til I saw the close up view.
They are old models that haven't aged well. That's pretty much the gist of it. Nostalgic throwbacks for people who played Necromunda back when dial-up was pretty normal.
I wouldn't put money into them unless you just really miss those old models. The newer ones are pretty awesome, and have a LOT of cool options.
Someone on GW spanish page made a mistake the first day of preorders, i preordered my Underhive Badzone Delta 7 and it cost me 25 € instead of 32.50 €
On Gang war 2 there are no rules for the hired gun model with the spear, but there are for a bounty hunter called Yar Umbra armed with an scoped laser rifle
GW did not try not sell the old Sly Marbo model just before the new one was offered for sale. Does this mean that we are not going to have a new Mad Donna model? That would be a VERY sad affair. She is an iconic character that deserves a new model like Sly Marbo.
@Grot 6:
Is the female bounty hunter a conversion or a non GW figure? Never seen that one in the 90s.
It’s an official GW figure. She was a special character introduced in one of the magazines published to support Necromunda (can’t remember if it was the Necromunda or Gang War magazine. It wasn’t the combined Fanatic magazine, anyway).
GW did not try not sell the old Sly Marbo model just before the new one was offered for sale. Does this mean that we are not going to have a new Mad Donna model? That would be a VERY sad affair. She is an iconic character that deserves a new model like Sly Marbo.
Marbo had been on sale for years prior, and I think he was being sold during the Guard Made to Order run last year.
Chopstick wrote: Went back and check the page, yes Orlock ganger can't take Heavy or Special weapon. RAW Escher and Goliath ganger can but they probably shouldn't.
Why?
Because special weapons are 'special', hence the name.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Gimgamgoo wrote: So, the Orlock gang box set shows you how to build the 'named' figures. But there's no character cards for them or stats. Nor is there any character cards in the pack of cards. There's no downloadable cards on the Necromunda website.
Have GW forgotten these or is there a future release?
I read somewhere that the points on the first set of cards don't match to the rulebook points. Seeing as though myself, wife and lad are using those character cards 'as is' out of the starter box I was hoping these named Orlock figures would have cards. Even the 'Orlock' book doesn't have them - just loads of Bounty Hunters.
The pre-filled out cards from the starter set belongs to a system no longer being developed along with the house list system in Underhive. They are both dead. The only system that is going to survive is the Gang War system and it currently has no pre-made cards yet. When Blood Bowl was released a lot of people wanted the cards for different teams similar to those released in the starter box for the two starter box teams. Unfortunately as more and more teams were released, no such cards was available. That changed about 1 year later, when suddenly a few teams go additional card decks with both blank cards and pre-made cards for all miniatures. Maybe GW would do something similar for Necromunda in the future, however they already have released the card decks for all current gangs so it's hard to see how they would choose to sell pre-made cards after the decks are already sold without them.
The point costs and stats are different from the pre-made cards and the Underhive rulebook, but also the Underhive points and stats are different from the Gang War system.
A bit disappointed ratskin gang and scavvy gang are not on the made to order of this week
Automatically Appended Next Post: Why mad donna has grass on her foot? Duncan always says to paint base as the rest of our army... is she in a blood bowl team now ?
@reluxor:
She apparently takes a stroll in some sort of biodome. Battlestar Galactica featured a biodome on the space ship Cloud 9 (http://galactica.wikia.com/wiki/Cloud_9).
Chopstick wrote: Went back and check the page, yes Orlock ganger can't take Heavy or Special weapon. RAW Escher and Goliath ganger can but they probably shouldn't.
Why?
Because special weapons are 'special', hence the name.
Okay I thought the face was sculpted with huge lips for some reason, it looks way more reasonable with a better paintjob. Still not great, but you know...not that, anyway.
So, I haven't bought any of the cards yet for any of the gangs, are they really necessary if you play with the Gang War rules? It sounds like the cards might not even be accurate anymore based on the current line of discussion, or am I misunderstanding?
Sidstyler wrote: Okay I thought the face was sculpted with huge lips for some reason, it looks way more reasonable with a better paintjob. Still not great, but you know...not that, anyway.
So, I haven't bought any of the cards yet for any of the gangs, are they really necessary if you play with the Gang War rules? It sounds like the cards might not even be accurate anymore based on the current line of discussion, or am I misunderstanding?
You absolutely need some kind of individual record for each fighter because the gang sheet simply doesn’t have any space for it.
As for the “official” cards, there are four kinds in two groups: tactic cards in generic and gang(house) specific kinds, and fighter cards in blank and pre-filled kinds.
Only the pre-filled ones are obsolete in Gang War/campaign mode.
Chopstick wrote: Went back and check the page, yes Orlock ganger can't take Heavy or Special weapon. RAW Escher and Goliath ganger can but they probably shouldn't.
Why?
Because special weapons are 'special', hence the name.
Sidstyler wrote: Okay I thought the face was sculpted with huge lips for some reason, it looks way more reasonable with a better paintjob. Still not great, but you know...not that, anyway.
So, I haven't bought any of the cards yet for any of the gangs, are they really necessary if you play with the Gang War rules? It sounds like the cards might not even be accurate anymore based on the current line of discussion, or am I misunderstanding?
No, you don't need the cards. The Gang Tactics cards give new content to the game, some like it, some don't. They're similar to the Special Play cards in Blood Bowlm but less 'optional' (you can still decide if you want to use them or not). It is enough for one player to have the cards and you can both draw or choose from the same deck if you wish. If you draw a house-specific card, just discard it and draw again. The fighter cards is just a ploy by GW to sell more models, they can easily be skipped (just allow fighters to swap weapons, problems solved). I just use the gang roster with additional columns for the new stats.
As always in 40k, you have a category of 'standard' weapons which are typically unlimited, and then you have a more exclusive set of 'special' weapons which are more specialized and limited. A standard weapon may be a lasgun, an autogun or a boltgun. In 40k, you will typically have this kind of weapon on all grunts in a squad. Most units have the possibility to take one or two special weapons however. These can be meltas, flamers, plasmas and other more costly, rarer options. These are highly valuable. Necromunda consists of cheap street thugs fighting each other. Not exactly the kind of crew you would expect to spam special weapons. Even in a squad of space marines where everyone has a bolter, you will just find one or two special weapons. Why would a gang in Necromunda be better equipped? It just doesn't make sense. Not with the fluff, not with the 20+ years GW rules tradition.
Baxx wrote: As always in 40k, you have a category of 'standard' weapons which are typically unlimited, and then you have a more exclusive set of 'special' weapons which are more specialized and limited. A standard weapon may be a lasgun, an autogun or a boltgun. In 40k, you will typically have this kind of weapon on all grunts in a squad. Most units have the possibility to take one or two special weapons however. These can be meltas, flamers, plasmas and other more costly, rarer options. These are highly valuable. Necromunda consists of cheap street thugs fighting each other. Not exactly the kind of crew you would expect to spam special weapons. Even in a squad of space marines where everyone has a bolter, you will just find one or two special weapons. Why would a gang in Necromunda be better equipped? It just doesn't make sense. Not with the fluff, not with the 20+ years GW rules tradition.
Because they can afford it.
Special weapons are handed in squads in limited numbers both due to supply and doctrinal reasons. But in the Underhive who gives a gak? Might makes right, and money makes you mightier.
Add to that that most special weapons are overkill. You want an entire gang armed with Meltaguns? Plasma Guns? What's the point? There are cheaper and/or more reliable weapons available.
Special weapons are handed in squads in limited numbers both due to supply and doctrinal reasons. But in the Underhive who gives a gak? Might makes right, and money makes you mightier.
Add to that that most special weapons are overkill. You want an entire gang armed with Meltaguns? Plasma Guns? What's the point? There are cheaper and/or more reliable weapons available.
This is a non-issue.
Special weapons also need more training to use, so sure a powerful gang could buy all the special weapons but if no one knows how to use and maintain them what's the point? They just sit in your stash collecting dust!
Special weapons are handed in squads in limited numbers both due to supply and doctrinal reasons. But in the Underhive who gives a gak? Might makes right, and money makes you mightier.
Add to that that most special weapons are overkill. You want an entire gang armed with Meltaguns? Plasma Guns? What's the point? There are cheaper and/or more reliable weapons available.
This is a non-issue.
Special weapons also need more training to use, so sure a powerful gang could buy all the special weapons but if no one knows how to use and maintain them what's the point? They just sit in your stash collecting dust!
If i'm not mistaken that was solved in the old rules with very high ammo checks like 6+ meaning those weapons would quickly become unusable in a given match just to reflect the rarity of ammo of the technical requirements of maintenance.
If i'm not mistaken that was solved in the old rules with very high ammo checks like 6+ meaning those weapons would quickly become unusable in a given match just to reflect the rarity of ammo of the technical requirements of maintenance.
That and only heavies, leaders and any gang member who rolled "specalist" on the techno table were able to take them
GW did not try not sell the old Sly Marbo model just before the new one was offered for sale. Does this mean that we are not going to have a new Mad Donna model? That would be a VERY sad affair. She is an iconic character that deserves a new model like Sly Marbo.
@Grot 6:
Is the female bounty hunter a conversion or a non GW figure? Never seen that one in the 90s.
The figure I posted a pic of was a rare back in the glory days of Necromunda. Aside from the figure snobs here, she's as effective now as she was then. Her name is Bonnie Annerson, they did this model as a nod to the old school movie Barb Wire, with a well endowed unnamed Bounty Hunter with a first name of Pamela, and the second name of Anderson. It's that little thing about the hotshot sniper lasgun and hellfire pistol ( when no one else had one.) SHe's a RARE as gak figure, as well. I have been trying to get her ever since she came out, back in like 94-96 timeframe. Here is the web throwback info on the figure. ( And if anyone has one, I am still willing to pay top dollar on this one!!! ) Want to talk about Holy Grails? THIS one is mine.
A real serious question, though- WHY are there such crappy paint jobs on those old models, when in the Outrider book, and in the Necromunda Magazine, there were some top drawer paint jobs on both Kal Jericho, and on Mad Donna. THESE photos that are shown, if someone from GW is posting those, they need to be straight up fired. THOSE paint jobs are NOT the models for the studio.
WHY are they bullshiting so much over at GW on Necromunda, as well? We got all 6 gangs in 2 months, and the game was strong with the follow ons. WHY are they doling the gangs out drip drip drip? We have top drawer scenery, top drawer sculpts, and the throwback figures, which should be flying off of the shelves, whoever is the Project Manager on the game- THEY as well, need to be fired.
Locally, we are pulling out the archives and playing old school, until they get their stuff together. Hopefully we can get a few more players to bite at 35 dollar gang boxes... o.O The Whole whopping 2 of them...
Special weapons are handed in squads in limited numbers both due to supply and doctrinal reasons. But in the Underhive who gives a gak? Might makes right, and money makes you mightier.
Add to that that most special weapons are overkill. You want an entire gang armed with Meltaguns? Plasma Guns? What's the point? There are cheaper and/or more reliable weapons available.
This is a non-issue.
Special weapons also need more training to use, so sure a powerful gang could buy all the special weapons but if no one knows how to use and maintain them what's the point? They just sit in your stash collecting dust!
If i'm not mistaken that was solved in the old rules with very high ammo checks like 6+ meaning those weapons would quickly become unusable in a given match just to reflect the rarity of ammo of the technical requirements of maintenance.
Yeah, and don't be next to that guy when you end up failing that roll.. That template was lethal if you got hit in the blast on a walkway, or in cover. A second and third point, There was a Heavy roll for a skill that could ignore the ammo checks, and there were some skills to improve the ammo rolls and shoot 2 or 3 times, so it also paid to have the weapon, pin it to a specialist, and tool him up. Usually, I would give the heavy a special weapon to begin with, after two or three times of getting stuck in on jobs, they would fill out. Either skills, or stats... 200 creds goes a long way, fast.
kansia wrote: On Gang war 2 there are no rules for the hired gun model with the spear, but there are for a bounty hunter called Yar Umbra armed with an scoped laser rifle
Elbows wrote: Unlimited or restricted special weapons would definitely ruin the game...
The ellipses makes me think you might be being sarcastic, but if not...
I think some weapon restrictions would be a really good idea. Without them every gang ultimately becomes a clone build spammed-out with the most optimal choices (which, for the moment, are boltguns, plasmaguns and grenade launchers).
Like someone said, there's nothing worse than an optimized Necromunda gang. But it's also hard to expect any player to choose the clearly-lesser of two options as an upgrade.
There are several solutions I'd be happy with -- limiting special weapons types to ~2 per gang, or bumping the rarity every time a copy of a weapon is purchased, or replacing rarity altogether by rolling on a chart to see what weapons are available (although I suppose it's too late for this).
Adding an upkeep charge for weapons could also be quite an easy way to make spamming fancy stuff less desirable.
Same for additional members of the gang to stop them ballooning up to being huge.
I've not really looked into the campaign system much yet (not bothering until the full trade post) so maybe the bloat is kept in check in some other way.
Wow, those are some seriously bad miniatures. Really awful sculpts and badly done paint job...
I hope they are not still claiming that "best fantasy miniatures in the world" thing
Careful now, people, that say that 25 year old models are better, might hear you
I would like some Mordheim come to the "to order" though... Imagine how many boxes of Carnival of Chaos can GW sell!
I already have Mad D so no need to re-order - model looks fine to me in real life.
Mordheim - could always do with some more Sisters of Sigmar and some of the Special Characters....
However I want more models based on the awesome new interior art
Do you mean all the guilds and men for hire stuff from the presentations shown a couple of weeks back? If so, I completely agree! These concept arts blew me away, they look very 40k and rather new.
I have a mad donna, the paint job on the old GW studio model does it no favours. It's much better in real life.
I order Kal and scabs. I have the old ltd edition black libaray Kal, holding his sword over his head, which i think is actually a worse mini. They are a classic pair but i think the scale change for the new mini's will be the biggest issue.
If i'm not mistaken that was solved in the old rules with very high ammo checks like 6+ meaning those weapons would quickly become unusable in a given match just to reflect the rarity of ammo of the technical requirements of maintenance.
That and only heavies, leaders and any gang member who rolled "specalist" on the techno table were able to take them
If you want to spam special weapons in the future then take a Van Saar gang. Everyone of these guys can roll on the techno table in order to become a specialist.
GW did not try not sell the old Sly Marbo model just before the new one was offered for sale. Does this mean that we are not going to have a new Mad Donna model? That would be a VERY sad affair. She is an iconic character that deserves a new model like Sly Marbo.
@Grot 6:
Is the female bounty hunter a conversion or a non GW figure? Never seen that one in the 90s.
The figure I posted a pic of was a rare back in the glory days of Necromunda. Aside from the figure snobs here, she's as effective now as she was then. Her name is Bonnie Annerson, they did this model as a nod to the old school movie Barb Wire, with a well endowed unnamed Bounty Hunter with a first name of Pamela, and the second name of Anderson. It's that little thing about the hotshot sniper lasgun and hellfire pistol ( when no one else had one.) SHe's a RARE as gak figure, as well. I have been trying to get her ever since she came out, back in like 94-96 timeframe. Here is the web throwback info on the figure. ( And if anyone has one, I am still willing to pay top dollar on this one!!! ) Want to talk about Holy Grails? THIS one is mine.
Thanks for the info. Barb Wire? I have the movie on DVD. Campy but fun nonetheless. Well, despite her impressive two arguments and gorgeous hair I couldn´t make the connection because people with hockey or leather masks wield normally chainsaws or large knives...
WHY are they bullshiting so much over at GW on Necromunda, as well? We got all 6 gangs in 2 months, and the game was strong with the follow ons. WHY are they doling the gangs out drip drip drip? We have top drawer scenery, top drawer sculpts, and the throwback figures, which should be flying off of the shelves, whoever is the Project Manager on the game- THEY as well, need to be fired.
Ok... the production of minis would have to be placed in between all the 'big games' miniatures. Specialist games resurrection is still verymuch in it's infancy, it's under the auspices of Forgeworld, but also is relying on plastics releases, so it's resin extensions would need to find sculpting and release schedule between FWs other releases and it's major plastics releases and boxed sets would need the same against AoS and 40k... I think the specialist games 'team' is like 3 people in the corner of FW's studio.
It's not even remotely realistic for you to suggest they release at the same rate as they had previously when the Citadel team (considerably larger in those days) downed tools on all other projects to work on one SG at a time.
And you're calling for the firing of Andy Hoare, who's not only the only person to have written about 40k in all four major incarnations (40k, BL, FFG & FW), created perhaps the best Imperial Armour of all in IA13 and constantly worked to bring in Rogue Trader/oldschool themes and, have met and played a game against the bloke, is likely one of the nicest and most chilled human beings on the planet.
GW really should increase it's creative team sizes and production capacity, both really great signs of their increased profits and success, but calling for someone to lose their job because you don't have access to all the toys at once is ridiculous.
WHY are they bullshiting so much over at GW on Necromunda, as well? We got all 6 gangs in 2 months, and the game was strong with the follow ons. WHY are they doling the gangs out drip drip drip? We have top drawer scenery, top drawer sculpts, and the throwback figures, which should be flying off of the shelves, whoever is the Project Manager on the game- THEY as well, need to be fired.
Ok... the production of minis would have to be placed in between all the 'big games' miniatures. Specialist games resurrection is still verymuch in it's infancy, it's under the auspices of Forgeworld, but also is relying on plastics releases, so it's resin extensions would need to find sculpting and release schedule between FWs other releases and it's major plastics releases and boxed sets would need the same against AoS and 40k... I think the specialist games 'team' is like 3 people in the corner of FW's studio.
It's not even remotely realistic for you to suggest they release at the same rate as they had previously when the Citadel team (considerably larger in those days) downed tools on all other projects to work on one SG at a time.
And you're calling for the firing of Andy Hoare, who's not only the only person to have written about 40k in all four major incarnations (40k, BL, FFG & FW), created perhaps the best Imperial Armour of all in IA13 and constantly worked to bring in Rogue Trader/oldschool themes and, have met and played a game against the bloke, is likely one of the nicest and most chilled human beings on the planet.
GW really should increase it's creative team sizes and production capacity, both really great signs of their increased profits and success, but calling for someone to lose their job because you don't have access to all the toys at once is ridiculous.
Huh, that's understandable. I was wondering why the releases were too slow. At least its a logistics thing rather than marketing incompetence.
Wouldn't GW make a ton of money by selling the less available classic miniatures? Just take a look at ebay, sort on highest price first and skip past the pro-painted 2017 models.
Wow, those are some seriously bad miniatures. Really awful sculpts and badly done paint job...
I hope they are not still claiming that "best fantasy miniatures in the world" thing
Its freaking me out every time I hit the front page of the GW website. Its pretty wonderful for a week long stint of 'you don't want to buy our garbage'
Wow, those are some seriously bad miniatures. Really awful sculpts and badly done paint job...
I hope they are not still claiming that "best fantasy miniatures in the world" thing
Its freaking me out every time I hit the front page of the GW website. Its pretty wonderful for a week long stint of 'you don't want to buy our garbage'
When I see that mini I feel like GW is taunting "buy it, if you dare".
Honestly, I can't believe they didn't have the eavy metal team take a crack at painting them up to modern standards... these are by far the worst presented minis I have ever seen from GW. The pumbagore looks like Michelangelo's David next to these things... rough stuff lol...
I'll hold off for the inevitable re-sculpts thanks very much!
Yes, that would probably the best solution, GW/FW having a select few (under NDA) proofreading the Gang War books.
This (having different stats/costs in Rulebook, pre-printed cards, Legacy PDF x 2, GW1 and GW2 - and soon GW3) is spiralling way out of control.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I really like the Kal Jericho miniature.
It has been the base model of many of my Inq28 conversions, such as these three (incl. a Goliath for scale):
Will probably buy it and Mad Donna, despite the hideous paint job.
10 man box, 35-40 dollars sit on the shelf and people are pulling out their old stuff to pay a game that on the outset was excitedly awaited. In it's execution, your opinion is noted, but my experiences are differently in the discussion.
The first game was a done deal. One and done in the bag.
You allude to "Taking away from Peter to pay Paul" That's incorrect. The game is a one off game, you are seeing - what, NOW GUILDERS? when they do not even have the first six gangs out. They already have the molds, they already have the gangs- ZERO figures. Locally, you have never seen such a backlash on the execution of a Project like you have seen here in my area, and I am sure it is the same everywhere else, because I have just a regular, standard issue Game scene.
You claim that I call for the firing of Andy Hoare, Thanks, but keep the hyperbole down to a minimum. HOWEVER- if he is responsible for the screw up, even after being involved as a successful Project Manager for the last iteration that was 110% successful, then yeah, we might have to rethink just firing him, and just get him on target again.
A couple of issues though. First off- This game should be rolling off the shelf. We have to wait 2 months for any sort of action, as the initial release was as strong as it was.
They had the boxed game, two gang boxes, Gang War 1,( Which was pretty weak for 35 bucks) the extra bulkheads and doors, the walls, the cards and silly little dice.
Even the second release of Necromunda had an initial small clamshell boxed set, with special characters, and additional Arbittes, new sculpts and some other stuff. Altogether, a new player would either have to shell 35 bucks for a gang, another 35 for the book, or the total 150+ bucks depending on your shop. THESE are plastic figure, BTW.
You claim it is not realistic to get out 6 different small 10 man gang sets out, even though the first 6 should have been on deck at release. The figures should have been created before the release, and been available. Not only is it realistic, it is an unacceptable loss. The original figures are already available, even Edition 2 figures. BOTH could have been released with a temp run, such as the bounty hunters, now.
The game is already over priced, the figures are unsold with just the two sets out, and FW doesn't make it any easier when you have to make a blind purchase that is not available in your local store.
This game was Boutique, even before Boutique was cool, even though the materials to play a good game are available, WITH a living rulebook that was already in circulation.
I respect your opinion, I just disagree. The first six gangs of 10 figures each need to be cranked out, ASAP. I use my experience as Anecdotal, but bear in mind I have like 3 or 4 shops nearby, and the consensus is entirely across the board- "Hey, great that the game came out, but where's the game at?" with players, myself included, playing the original game, and slowly introducing the new game to new players. And as an after thought, the rulebooks are underwhelming for the price. Confusions about as there idea of releasing small incremental rules with the releases is a step in the wrong direction.
Someone already shot out a great idea to crank out the original 6 temp boxes. THAT would have been preferable to Flash in the pan advertising and release, where you come out of the gate strong, and then are silent and dead in the water. Realize that 2 - 2 and a half months have gone by with NONE of the shops getting any information on the release schedule, or timeframe of when the stuff is coming out, leading to my shop owners being responsibly skittish on ordering.
The momentum is lost now, the attempt to get it back is not there, and different gangs need to be out NOW, not 2-3 years after the initial release, just to play the basic game.
Respectfully. They can do this better, with less effort, MORE PROFIT without trying to cheese it.
I edited this because on initial reading I thought I cam off as overly snipe, when I first wrote it. Respect in intent, I apologize in advance if it comes off overly harsh. I'm just pissed because I care about the game, and it is one of my full on obsessions as far as gaming goes. I was wholly pumped on the onset, but I'm getting a bit disappointed on execution.
Elbows wrote: Unlimited or restricted special weapons would definitely ruin the game...
The ellipses makes me think you might be being sarcastic, but if not...
I think some weapon restrictions would be a really good idea. Without them every gang ultimately becomes a clone build spammed-out with the most optimal choices (which, for the moment, are boltguns, plasmaguns and grenade launchers).
Like someone said, there's nothing worse than an optimized Necromunda gang. But it's also hard to expect any player to choose the clearly-lesser of two options as an upgrade.
There are several solutions I'd be happy with -- limiting special weapons types to ~2 per gang, or bumping the rarity every time a copy of a weapon is purchased, or replacing rarity altogether by rolling on a chart to see what weapons are available (although I suppose it's too late for this).
In this case, I can give an example.
One of the players buys a melta gun, gives it to his ganger, and on the first game, the weapons fails Ammo Rolls and the roll in addition weapon explodes, ganger is out of action, after action, rolls dead. Lose ganger, lose weapon- right after he bought it the after action results before the game. The guy I played with took the figure, special weapon and all, and threw it across the room. Failing the recover the mini rule. ( This is a general example that happened a long time back, but it was memorable.)
Point being- Initially, a special weapon is a mixed bag. You don't get a one off kill weapon, unless you roll well, and on a 6, it's honestly rare as hell. Most of the time, your guy fails the rolls, or the gang bottles out in the first three or four games, and even then it depends on your choices in the after game follow-up for your gangs.
What I would do was to arm the Heavy with the special weapon, in the first place, then after that game, give them a heavy stubber, and put that special weapon on someone else, and in the recovery and follow up phase of the after actions, work on stats and skills for the specialist/ ganger with the special weapon. Your mileage may very, but I have found that a gang can be more effective with a couple of rifles, and double up on hand to hand weapon, and pistol choice. Supported by the special weapons. Don't worry much about them, until games 4 or 5, because you can have a ganger built up by then to handle the weapon with the skills that ignored the ammo roll, or lowered the score. (I think it was specialist, or Weapons smith.)
MajorTom11 wrote: Honestly, I can't believe they didn't have the eavy metal team take a crack at painting them up to modern standards... these are by far the worst presented minis I have ever seen from GW. The pumbagore looks like Michelangelo's David next to these things... rough stuff lol...
While Kal and Scabbs are... uhm... okayish, Mad Donna's paint job is abysmal, even for Fanatic standards. The miniature is quite nice, but you can ruin everything with this kind of treatment.
10 man box, 35-40 dollars sit on the shelf and people are pulling out their old stuff to pay a game that on the outset was excitedly awaited. In it's execution, your opinion is noted, but my experiences are differently in the discussion.
The first game was a done deal. One and done in the bag.
You allude to "Taking away from Peter to pay Paul" That's incorrect. The game is a one off game, you are seeing - what, NOW GUILDERS? when they do not even have the first six gangs out. They already have the molds, they already have the gangs- ZERO figures. Locally, you have never seen such a backlash on the execution of a Project like you have seen here in my area, and I am sure it is the same everywhere else, because I have just a regular, standard issue Game scene.
You claim that I call for the firing of Andy Hoare, Thanks, but keep the hyperbole down to a minimum. HOWEVER- if he is responsible for the screw up, even after being involved as a successful Project Manager for the last iteration that was 110% successful, then yeah, we might have to rethink just firing him, and just get him on target again.
A couple of issues though. First off- This game should be rolling off the shelf. We have to wait 2 months for any sort of action, as the initial release was as strong as it was.
They had the boxed game, two gang boxes, Gang War 1,( Which was pretty weak for 35 bucks) the extra bulkheads and doors, the walls, the cards and silly little dice. Even the second release of Necromunda had an initial small clamshell boxed set, with special characters, and additional Arbittes, new sculpts and some other stuff. Altogether, a new player would either have to shell 35 bucks for a gang, another 35 for the book, or the total 150+ bucks depending on your shop. THESE are plastic figure, BTW.
You claim it is not realistic to get out 6 different small 10 man gang sets out, even though the first 6 should have been on deck at release. The figures should have been created before the release, and been available. Not only is it realistic, it is an unacceptable loss. The original figures are already available, even Edition 2 figures. BOTH could have been released with a temp run, such as the bounty hunters, now.
The game is already over priced, the figures are unsold with just the two sets out, and FW doesn't make it any easier when you have to make a blind purchase that is not available in your local store.
This game was Boutique, even before Boutique was cool, even though the materials to play a good game are available, WITH a living rulebook that was already in circulation.
I respect your opinion, I just disagree. The first six gangs of 10 figures each need to be cranked out, ASAP. I use my experience as Anecdotal, but bear in mind I have like 3 or 4 shops nearby, and the consensus is entirely across the board- "Hey, great that the game came out, but where's the game at?" with players, myself included, playing the original game, and slowly introducing the new game to new players. And as an after thought, the rulebooks are underwhelming for the price. Confusions about as there idea of releasing small incremental rules with the releases is a step in the wrong direction.
Someone already shot out a great idea to crank out the original 6 temp boxes. THAT would have been preferable to Flash in the pan advertising and release, where you come out of the gate strong, and then are silent and dead in the water. Realize that 2 - 2 and a half months have gone by with NONE of the shops getting any information on the release schedule, or timeframe of when the stuff is coming out, leading to my shop owners being responsibly skittish on ordering.
The momentum is lost now, the attempt to get it back is not there, and different gangs need to be out NOW, not 2-3 years after the initial release, just to play the basic game.
Respectfully. They can do this better, with less effort, MORE PROFIT without trying to cheese it.
I edited this because on initial reading I thought I cam off as overly snipe, when I first wrote it. Respect in intent, I apologize in advance if it comes off overly harsh. I'm just pissed because I care about the game, and it is one of my full on obsessions as far as gaming goes. I was wholly pumped on the onset, but I'm getting a bit disappointed on execution.
Elbows wrote: Unlimited or restricted special weapons would definitely ruin the game...
The ellipses makes me think you might be being sarcastic, but if not...
I think some weapon restrictions would be a really good idea. Without them every gang ultimately becomes a clone build spammed-out with the most optimal choices (which, for the moment, are boltguns, plasmaguns and grenade launchers).
Like someone said, there's nothing worse than an optimized Necromunda gang. But it's also hard to expect any player to choose the clearly-lesser of two options as an upgrade.
There are several solutions I'd be happy with -- limiting special weapons types to ~2 per gang, or bumping the rarity every time a copy of a weapon is purchased, or replacing rarity altogether by rolling on a chart to see what weapons are available (although I suppose it's too late for this).
In this case, I can give an example.
One of the players buys a melta gun, gives it to his ganger, and on the first game, the weapons fails Ammo Rolls and the roll in addition weapon explodes, ganger is out of action, after action, rolls dead. Lose ganger, lose weapon- right after he bought it the after action results before the game. The guy I played with took the figure, special weapon and all, and threw it across the room. Failing the recover the mini rule. ( This is a general example that happened a long time back, but it was memorable.)
Point being- Initially, a special weapon is a mixed bag. You don't get a one off kill weapon, unless you roll well, and on a 6, it's honestly rare as hell. Most of the time, your guy fails the rolls, or the gang bottles out in the first three or four games, and even then it depends on your choices in the after game follow-up for your gangs.
What I would do was to arm the Heavy with the special weapon, in the first place, then after that game, give them a heavy stubber, and put that special weapon on someone else, and in the recovery and follow up phase of the after actions, work on stats and skills for the specialist/ ganger with the special weapon. Your mileage may very, but I have found that a gang can be more effective with a couple of rifles, and double up on hand to hand weapon, and pistol choice. Supported by the special weapons. Don't worry much about them, until games 4 or 5, because you can have a ganger built up by then to handle the weapon with the skills that ignored the ammo roll, or lowered the score. (I think it was specialist, or Weapons smith.)
Couldn't agree more. I still don't understand how GW thought that releasing the game with only 2 factions was a good idea. Talk about a momentum killer. At the strict minimum, they should have had 4 gangs available. What's done done, and there's no point on crying over spilled milk, but I'm still pissed with that decision.
Thankfullly, they seems to have long term plans for necro, so that botched release won't affect its viability
I'm enjoying the slow rollout. If it gave them design time to create
sector mechanicus then it's great because all of the kits are thoughtfully
created and rather than just putting out whatever at a rapid fire pace
there seems to be serious intent in creating kits that can get strong
variety without much modding.
My annoyance is more with the lack of editing and cohesion in the rulebooks thus far released coupled with the lack of FAQs to sort out issues like Toxin.
The Gang War books look nice - the art work is really lovely, but the content is average-weak and not properly proof read or even matching other publications. Missing rules, weapon profiles not matching even in the same book - GW2 alone has two different stat lines for Chainswords.
Sad really as the fluff writing is really interesting and putting lots of meat on the bones.
You haven't read the books? They're a complete mess, GW2 continues this tradition.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mr Morden wrote: My annoyance is more with the lack of editing and cohesion in the rulebooks thus far released coupled with the lack of FAQs to sort out issues like Toxin.
The Gang War books look nice - the art work is really lovely, but the content is average-weak and not properly proof read or even matching other publications. Missing rules, weapon profiles not matching even in the same book - GW2 alone has two different stat lines for Chainswords.
.
Grot 6 wrote: Her name is Bonnie Annerson, they did this model as a nod to the old school movie Barb Wire, with a well endowed unnamed Bounty Hunter with a first name of Pamela, and the second name of Anderson. It's that little thing about the hotshot sniper lasgun and hellfire pistol ( when no one else had one.)
Other than any other model who attached a hotshot pack to a laspistol.
A real serious question, though- WHY are there such crappy paint jobs on those old models, when in the Outrider book, and in the Necromunda Magazine, there were some top drawer paint jobs on both Kal Jericho, and on Mad Donna. THESE photos that are shown, if someone from GW is posting those, they need to be straight up fired. THOSE paint jobs are NOT the models for the studio.
The obvious answer would be they no longer have the original model, for any one of a variety of reasons.
Just to add to the inconsistencies of Necromunda: Gor Half-horn now has quite a few additional weapons in the summary of GW2 compared to his profile page and the card that comes with the miniature (in addition to his Chainsword missing 'Rending' trait).
10 man box, 35-40 dollars sit on the shelf and people are pulling out their old stuff to pay a game that on the outset was excitedly awaited. In it's execution, your opinion is noted, but my experiences are differently in the discussion.
The first game was a done deal. One and done in the bag.
You allude to "Taking away from Peter to pay Paul" That's incorrect. The game is a one off game, you are seeing - what, NOW GUILDERS? when they do not even have the first six gangs out. They already have the molds, they already have the gangs- ZERO figures. Locally, you have never seen such a backlash on the execution of a Project like you have seen here in my area, and I am sure it is the same everywhere else, because I have just a regular, standard issue Game scene.
You claim that I call for the firing of Andy Hoare, Thanks, but keep the hyperbole down to a minimum. HOWEVER- if he is responsible for the screw up, even after being involved as a successful Project Manager for the last iteration that was 110% successful, then yeah, we might have to rethink just firing him, and just get him on target again.
A couple of issues though. First off- This game should be rolling off the shelf. We have to wait 2 months for any sort of action, as the initial release was as strong as it was.
They had the boxed game, two gang boxes, Gang War 1,( Which was pretty weak for 35 bucks) the extra bulkheads and doors, the walls, the cards and silly little dice.
Even the second release of Necromunda had an initial small clamshell boxed set, with special characters, and additional Arbittes, new sculpts and some other stuff. Altogether, a new player would either have to shell 35 bucks for a gang, another 35 for the book, or the total 150+ bucks depending on your shop. THESE are plastic figure, BTW.
You claim it is not realistic to get out 6 different small 10 man gang sets out, even though the first 6 should have been on deck at release. The figures should have been created before the release, and been available. Not only is it realistic, it is an unacceptable loss. The original figures are already available, even Edition 2 figures. BOTH could have been released with a temp run, such as the bounty hunters, now.
The game is already over priced, the figures are unsold with just the two sets out, and FW doesn't make it any easier when you have to make a blind purchase that is not available in your local store.
This game was Boutique, even before Boutique was cool, even though the materials to play a good game are available, WITH a living rulebook that was already in circulation.
I respect your opinion, I just disagree. The first six gangs of 10 figures each need to be cranked out, ASAP. I use my experience as Anecdotal, but bear in mind I have like 3 or 4 shops nearby, and the consensus is entirely across the board- "Hey, great that the game came out, but where's the game at?" with players, myself included, playing the original game, and slowly introducing the new game to new players. And as an after thought, the rulebooks are underwhelming for the price. Confusions about as there idea of releasing small incremental rules with the releases is a step in the wrong direction.
Someone already shot out a great idea to crank out the original 6 temp boxes. THAT would have been preferable to Flash in the pan advertising and release, where you come out of the gate strong, and then are silent and dead in the water. Realize that 2 - 2 and a half months have gone by with NONE of the shops getting any information on the release schedule, or timeframe of when the stuff is coming out, leading to my shop owners being responsibly skittish on ordering.
The momentum is lost now, the attempt to get it back is not there, and different gangs need to be out NOW, not 2-3 years after the initial release, just to play the basic game.
Respectfully. They can do this better, with less effort, MORE PROFIT without trying to cheese it.
I edited this because on initial reading I thought I cam off as overly snipe, when I first wrote it. Respect in intent, I apologize in advance if it comes off overly harsh. I'm just pissed because I care about the game, and it is one of my full on obsessions as far as gaming goes. I was wholly pumped on the onset, but I'm getting a bit disappointed on execution.
Elbows wrote: Unlimited or restricted special weapons would definitely ruin the game...
The ellipses makes me think you might be being sarcastic, but if not...
I think some weapon restrictions would be a really good idea. Without them every gang ultimately becomes a clone build spammed-out with the most optimal choices (which, for the moment, are boltguns, plasmaguns and grenade launchers).
Like someone said, there's nothing worse than an optimized Necromunda gang. But it's also hard to expect any player to choose the clearly-lesser of two options as an upgrade.
There are several solutions I'd be happy with -- limiting special weapons types to ~2 per gang, or bumping the rarity every time a copy of a weapon is purchased, or replacing rarity altogether by rolling on a chart to see what weapons are available (although I suppose it's too late for this).
In this case, I can give an example.
One of the players buys a melta gun, gives it to his ganger, and on the first game, the weapons fails Ammo Rolls and the roll in addition weapon explodes, ganger is out of action, after action, rolls dead. Lose ganger, lose weapon- right after he bought it the after action results before the game. The guy I played with took the figure, special weapon and all, and threw it across the room. Failing the recover the mini rule. ( This is a general example that happened a long time back, but it was memorable.)
Point being- Initially, a special weapon is a mixed bag. You don't get a one off kill weapon, unless you roll well, and on a 6, it's honestly rare as hell. Most of the time, your guy fails the rolls, or the gang bottles out in the first three or four games, and even then it depends on your choices in the after game follow-up for your gangs.
What I would do was to arm the Heavy with the special weapon, in the first place, then after that game, give them a heavy stubber, and put that special weapon on someone else, and in the recovery and follow up phase of the after actions, work on stats and skills for the specialist/ ganger with the special weapon. Your mileage may very, but I have found that a gang can be more effective with a couple of rifles, and double up on hand to hand weapon, and pistol choice. Supported by the special weapons. Don't worry much about them, until games 4 or 5, because you can have a ganger built up by then to handle the weapon with the skills that ignored the ammo roll, or lowered the score. (I think it was specialist, or Weapons smith.)
Couldn't agree more. I still don't understand how GW thought that releasing the game with only 2 factions was a good idea. Talk about a momentum killer. At the strict minimum, they should have had 4 gangs available. What's done done, and there's no point on crying over spilled milk, but I'm still pissed with that decision.
Thankfullly, they seems to have long term plans for necro, so that botched release won't affect its viability
I'm on both sides of the fence here on this line of argument...
1.) 2 factions on release and for prolonged periods in a list building game does indeed make for a tough go. 3-4 seems more of an ideal amount, and considering just how constrained the needs are for Necromunda in terms of the limited models needed, it would have made better sense. I don't think the game killed itself by any means though, that goes a bit too far for me. But otherwise a valid observation as far as a gamer perspective goes.
2.) As a collector/painter more than a player, I have actually been very relieved that the release was limited with the promise of a steady pace of releases. I can actually get this stuff painted in time before the new shiny comes out, leaving me with a shelf of fully painted game, not a closet full of impulse purchased models that quickly overwhelm the ability to keep up. I have bought all N17 models and releases thus far. Never managed that before for any other game. And, on top of it, this stuff is actually getting painted. From a collector/painter perspective, the pace of release is pretty damn good.
Now, this says nothing about the rules issue, which are aggravating but not game-ruining for most imho. But overall, have been pretty happy with my N17 experience.
10 man box, 35-40 dollars sit on the shelf and people are pulling out their old stuff to pay a game that on the outset was excitedly awaited. In it's execution, your opinion is noted, but my experiences are differently in the discussion.
The first game was a done deal. One and done in the bag.
You allude to "Taking away from Peter to pay Paul" That's incorrect. The game is a one off game, you are seeing - what, NOW GUILDERS? when they do not even have the first six gangs out. They already have the molds, they already have the gangs- ZERO figures. Locally, you have never seen such a backlash on the execution of a Project like you have seen here in my area, and I am sure it is the same everywhere else, because I have just a regular, standard issue Game scene.
You claim that I call for the firing of Andy Hoare, Thanks, but keep the hyperbole down to a minimum. HOWEVER- if he is responsible for the screw up, even after being involved as a successful Project Manager for the last iteration that was 110% successful, then yeah, we might have to rethink just firing him, and just get him on target again.
A couple of issues though. First off- This game should be rolling off the shelf. We have to wait 2 months for any sort of action, as the initial release was as strong as it was.
They had the boxed game, two gang boxes, Gang War 1,( Which was pretty weak for 35 bucks) the extra bulkheads and doors, the walls, the cards and silly little dice.
Even the second release of Necromunda had an initial small clamshell boxed set, with special characters, and additional Arbittes, new sculpts and some other stuff. Altogether, a new player would either have to shell 35 bucks for a gang, another 35 for the book, or the total 150+ bucks depending on your shop. THESE are plastic figure, BTW.
You claim it is not realistic to get out 6 different small 10 man gang sets out, even though the first 6 should have been on deck at release. The figures should have been created before the release, and been available. Not only is it realistic, it is an unacceptable loss. The original figures are already available, even Edition 2 figures. BOTH could have been released with a temp run, such as the bounty hunters, now.
The game is already over priced, the figures are unsold with just the two sets out, and FW doesn't make it any easier when you have to make a blind purchase that is not available in your local store.
This game was Boutique, even before Boutique was cool, even though the materials to play a good game are available, WITH a living rulebook that was already in circulation.
I respect your opinion, I just disagree. The first six gangs of 10 figures each need to be cranked out, ASAP. I use my experience as Anecdotal, but bear in mind I have like 3 or 4 shops nearby, and the consensus is entirely across the board- "Hey, great that the game came out, but where's the game at?" with players, myself included, playing the original game, and slowly introducing the new game to new players. And as an after thought, the rulebooks are underwhelming for the price. Confusions about as there idea of releasing small incremental rules with the releases is a step in the wrong direction.
Someone already shot out a great idea to crank out the original 6 temp boxes. THAT would have been preferable to Flash in the pan advertising and release, where you come out of the gate strong, and then are silent and dead in the water. Realize that 2 - 2 and a half months have gone by with NONE of the shops getting any information on the release schedule, or timeframe of when the stuff is coming out, leading to my shop owners being responsibly skittish on ordering.
The momentum is lost now, the attempt to get it back is not there, and different gangs need to be out NOW, not 2-3 years after the initial release, just to play the basic game.
Respectfully. They can do this better, with less effort, MORE PROFIT without trying to cheese it.
I edited this because on initial reading I thought I cam off as overly snipe, when I first wrote it. Respect in intent, I apologize in advance if it comes off overly harsh. I'm just pissed because I care about the game, and it is one of my full on obsessions as far as gaming goes. I was wholly pumped on the onset, but I'm getting a bit disappointed on execution.
Elbows wrote: Unlimited or restricted special weapons would definitely ruin the game...
The ellipses makes me think you might be being sarcastic, but if not...
I think some weapon restrictions would be a really good idea. Without them every gang ultimately becomes a clone build spammed-out with the most optimal choices (which, for the moment, are boltguns, plasmaguns and grenade launchers).
Like someone said, there's nothing worse than an optimized Necromunda gang. But it's also hard to expect any player to choose the clearly-lesser of two options as an upgrade.
There are several solutions I'd be happy with -- limiting special weapons types to ~2 per gang, or bumping the rarity every time a copy of a weapon is purchased, or replacing rarity altogether by rolling on a chart to see what weapons are available (although I suppose it's too late for this).
In this case, I can give an example.
One of the players buys a melta gun, gives it to his ganger, and on the first game, the weapons fails Ammo Rolls and the roll in addition weapon explodes, ganger is out of action, after action, rolls dead. Lose ganger, lose weapon- right after he bought it the after action results before the game. The guy I played with took the figure, special weapon and all, and threw it across the room. Failing the recover the mini rule. ( This is a general example that happened a long time back, but it was memorable.)
Point being- Initially, a special weapon is a mixed bag. You don't get a one off kill weapon, unless you roll well, and on a 6, it's honestly rare as hell. Most of the time, your guy fails the rolls, or the gang bottles out in the first three or four games, and even then it depends on your choices in the after game follow-up for your gangs.
What I would do was to arm the Heavy with the special weapon, in the first place, then after that game, give them a heavy stubber, and put that special weapon on someone else, and in the recovery and follow up phase of the after actions, work on stats and skills for the specialist/ ganger with the special weapon. Your mileage may very, but I have found that a gang can be more effective with a couple of rifles, and double up on hand to hand weapon, and pistol choice. Supported by the special weapons. Don't worry much about them, until games 4 or 5, because you can have a ganger built up by then to handle the weapon with the skills that ignored the ammo roll, or lowered the score. (I think it was specialist, or Weapons smith.)
Couldn't agree more. I still don't understand how GW thought that releasing the game with only 2 factions was a good idea. Talk about a momentum killer. At the strict minimum, they should have had 4 gangs available. What's done done, and there's no point on crying over spilled milk, but I'm still pissed with that decision.
Thankfullly, they seems to have long term plans for necro, so that botched release won't affect its viability
I'm on both sides of the fence here on this line of argument...
1.) 2 factions on release and for prolonged periods in a list building game does indeed make for a tough go. 3-4 seems more of an ideal amount, and considering just how constrained the needs are for Necromunda in terms of the limited models needed, it would have made better sense. I don't think the game killed itself by any means though, that goes a bit too far for me. But otherwise a valid observation as far as a gamer perspective goes.
2.) As a collector/painter more than a player, I have actually been very relieved that the release was limited with the promise of a steady pace of releases. I can actually get this stuff painted in time before the new shiny comes out, leaving me with a shelf of fully painted game, not a closet full of impulse purchased models that quickly overwhelm the ability to keep up. I have bought all N17 models and releases thus far. Never managed that before for any other game. And, on top of it, this stuff is actually getting painted. From a collector/painter perspective, the pace of release is pretty damn good.
Now, this says nothing about the rules issue, which are aggravating but not game-ruining for most imho. But overall, have been pretty happy with my N17 experience.
In a way, the slow release doesn't really affect me, cause like you, I'm more of a collectionner than a gamer. But it sure killed the enthusiasm among the store wich I frequent.
This is correct. Andy was saying "No genuinely, If you're interested apply, we need to find 3 more sculptors".
Whatever they thought they'd do with Necromunda (which was quite a bit considering they were talking about how they had built up stock of the base game beforehand, when people were worried about Shadow War style lack of stock), they are obviously meeting and exceeding those expectations enough to expand.
Hopefully this will mean BB shifts up a gear too when those positions are filled!
Really liked the old bit of Mark Gibson artwork for Mad Donna - if the name wasn't clue enough, you can see where the influence came from!
Sadly this was the highest resolution I could find - I remember the artwork in the old Necromunda rulebook being much sharper.
Pacific wrote: Really liked the old bit of Mark Gibson artwork for Mad Donna - if the name wasn't clue enough, you can see where the influence came from!
That's a 28 year old reference though. I won't be upset if most off the players these days don't know who Jean Paul Gauthier or Madonna are.
Also, I doubt if today's GW sculptors could do that in 30(2)mm.
Pacific wrote: Really liked the old bit of Mark Gibson artwork for Mad Donna - if the name wasn't clue enough, you can see where the influence came from!
That's a 28 year old reference though. I won't be upset if most off the players these days don't know who Jean Paul Gauthier or Madonna are.
Also, I doubt if today's GW sculptors could do that in 30(2)mm.
Pacific wrote: Really liked the old bit of Mark Gibson artwork for Mad Donna - if the name wasn't clue enough, you can see where the influence came from!
That's a 28 year old reference though. I won't be upset if most off the players these days don't know who Jean Paul Gauthier or Madonna are.
Also, I doubt if today's GW sculptors could do that in 30(2)mm.
Gree wrote: Does anybody know if the Orlock heads fit well on the Cadian bodies? I'm thinking of picking up a box for some conversion work.
Interviews a few months back said that the Orlock kit was meant to be compatible with the Genestealer Cult upgrade kit. As the GSC kit was originally designed for the Cadian Shock Troopers then the Orlock heads should also be a match.
I haven't tried this personally though or seen anyone else comment on how well they actually do go together.
Gang War 2 doesn't just allow you to hire mercenaries for your gang – you'll also be able to add a range of non-combat staff to your roster, providing invaluable benefits in your next campaign.
Gang War 2 doesn't just allow you to hire mercenaries for your gang – you'll also be able to add a range of non-combat staff to your roster, providing invaluable benefits in your next campaign.
I like this idea! Add some interesting choices to the game.
MajorTom11 wrote: I'm on both sides of the fence here on this line of argument...
1.) 2 factions on release and for prolonged periods in a list building game does indeed make for a tough go. 3-4 seems more of an ideal amount, and considering just how constrained the needs are for Necromunda in terms of the limited models needed, it would have made better sense. I don't think the game killed itself by any means though, that goes a bit too far for me. But otherwise a valid observation as far as a gamer perspective goes.
2.) As a collector/painter more than a player, I have actually been very relieved that the release was limited with the promise of a steady pace of releases. I can actually get this stuff painted in time before the new shiny comes out, leaving me with a shelf of fully painted game, not a closet full of impulse purchased models that quickly overwhelm the ability to keep up. I have bought all N17 models and releases thus far. Never managed that before for any other game. And, on top of it, this stuff is actually getting painted. From a collector/painter perspective, the pace of release is pretty damn good.
Now, this says nothing about the rules issue, which are aggravating but not game-ruining for most imho. But overall, have been pretty happy with my N17 experience.
Yeah, I'm mostly with you here. I can deal with a slower, deliberate release. But I think three would have been the magic number at release. Hey, Terrans, Zerg and Protoss were plenty of choice, right? It just feels a lot better than a binary decision, and I think it would have ensnared more new players.
MajorTom11 wrote: I'm on both sides of the fence here on this line of argument...
1.) 2 factions on release and for prolonged periods in a list building game does indeed make for a tough go. 3-4 seems more of an ideal amount, and considering just how constrained the needs are for Necromunda in terms of the limited models needed, it would have made better sense. I don't think the game killed itself by any means though, that goes a bit too far for me. But otherwise a valid observation as far as a gamer perspective goes.
2.) As a collector/painter more than a player, I have actually been very relieved that the release was limited with the promise of a steady pace of releases. I can actually get this stuff painted in time before the new shiny comes out, leaving me with a shelf of fully painted game, not a closet full of impulse purchased models that quickly overwhelm the ability to keep up. I have bought all N17 models and releases thus far. Never managed that before for any other game. And, on top of it, this stuff is actually getting painted. From a collector/painter perspective, the pace of release is pretty damn good.
Now, this says nothing about the rules issue, which are aggravating but not game-ruining for most imho. But overall, have been pretty happy with my N17 experience.
Yeah, I'm mostly with you here. I can deal with a slower, deliberate release. But I think three would have been the magic number at release. Hey, Terrans, Zerg and Protoss were plenty of choice, right? It just feels a lot better than a binary decision, and I think it would have ensnared more new players.
Agree. 3 would have been good... that being said, we are what, 3 months in and there will be 4 gangs out now, so honestly all things considered the pace is solid. I just want from no gangs painted to 3 in the space of a month too, my GSC will finally get used for something other than cabinet decoration .
zamerion wrote:This month rules for cult genestealer in the WD!
Thanks to Heimmenrich
This is awesome, it's a touch late for maximum impact, but I love that they are on this.
Holy gak though, honestly since GW2 came the tone turned the wrong way HARD in the groups and forums I follow. Went from everyone pretty happy to everyone gakking on the game and GW, it's almost like it is suddenly 2012 GW fanbase in Necromunda world now... Wow. GW better release a faq real damn quick, this is not a good PR moment for them.
Well I think a lot of folk thought that the issues with GW1 were a fluke and GW2 would both fix them and be a better product, then it turned out it was just as badly proofread as the first book and even carried over several mistakes or examples of poor wording wholesale.
GW bought a whole lot of goodwill with nostalgiabucks, but they then immediately burned a lot of it with the two-gang launch and book-per-gang business model, seemingly for a lot of folk GW2 also being shonky and haphazard ate right through whatever good feelings they had left.
Yodhrin wrote: Well I think a lot of folk thought that the issues with GW1 were a fluke and GW2 would both fix them and be a better product, then it turned out it was just as badly proofread as the first book and even carried over several mistakes or examples of poor wording wholesale.
GW bought a whole lot of goodwill with nostalgiabucks, but they then immediately burned a lot of it with the two-gang launch and book-per-gang business model, seemingly for a lot of folk GW2 also being shonky and haphazard ate right through whatever good feelings they had left.
im getting the feeling that the Munda team is ether understaffed or are being force pushed by the bean counter. i guessing it might be because of some other up coming specialist game.
They better do something, and quick. I don't think I have seen a reaction turn from so glowing to so pissed this quickly before. N17 had a great launch from what I can tell, but the impression these books are giving is not good at all. I think everyone would have been a lot more tolerant of the obvious cash-grab business model if it wasn't for these glaring, lazy rule errors.
Most people I have seen admit the problems don't impact any but the hardcore campaign players much, but people seem to be pissed at the principal if nothing else. Fortunately, we have a lot of great people here and in a few other spots helping fix the rules for now until they do something more... comprehensive. I think it would be financial suicide to release GW3 with the same issues...
Despite all that, the overall price to play is still pretty good to me though, although, it could have been way better without the expensive boards and books to force you to shell out.
MajorTom11 wrote: They better do something, and quick. I don't think I have seen a reaction turn from so glowing to so pissed this quickly before. N17 had a great launch from what I can tell, but the impression these books are giving is not good at all. I think everyone would have been a lot more tolerant of the obvious cash-grab business model if it wasn't for these glaring, lazy rule errors.
Most people I have seen admit the problems don't impact any but the hardcore campaign players much, but people seem to be pissed at the principal if nothing else. Fortunately, we have a lot of great people here and in a few other spots helping fix the rules for now until they do something more... comprehensive. I think it would be financial suicide to release GW3 with the same issues...
Despite all that, the overall price to play is still pretty good to me though, although, it could have been way better without the expensive boards and books to force you to shell out.
The part that I don't get about people being so pissy over is that since day one, GW made it clear we were getting a "Compilation" book like Blood Bowl got.
Why would any individuals be buying the books piecemeal when it could be considered a league/club cost instead?
The part that I don't get about people being so pissy over is that since day one, GW made it clear we were getting a "Compilation" book like Blood Bowl got.
Honest question: Is it possible to play Blood Bowl without the box set? Bonus question: Will it be possible to play Necromunda without the box set?
The part that I don't get about people being so pissy over is that since day one, GW made it clear we were getting a "Compilation" book like Blood Bowl got.
Honest question: Is it possible to play Blood Bowl without the box set? Bonus question: Will it be possible to play Necromunda without the box set?
I legitimately couldn't answer it on Blood Bowl. I have the box, but the follow-on teams IIRC were either in the main rules or the first Deathzone book.
In any regards, I was more addressing the fact that people have been complaining about "needing" to buy the books for each release. Why? Is it so necessary to play the newest and shiniest things right off the bat?
In any regards, I was more addressing the fact that people have been complaining about "needing" to buy the books for each release. Why? Is it so necessary to play the newest and shiniest things right off the bat?
And I'm wondering if we can eventually be able to play Necronmunda without buying an expensive box set. If GW made BB rules available in a compilation then maybe Necro might be the same?
In the meantime I'll collect expensive resin models for the RPG.
AFAIK the Blood Bowl anthology book does not include the core rules from the boxed set, but they did eventually begin selling the rulebook on its own though only digitally.
Newcromunda is a fantastic game that is being held back by sloppily produced expansion books. The content is great, it's just not up to the standard we should expect. The missing or contradictory rules, the fact that there are tons of new weapons in GW2 that we cannot purchase yet*, the nonsensical Hired Gun rules (why do they exist again)... it's just poor form.
I want to keep playing it, but they need to tighten things up a bit (and release those FW weapon packs!).
*"But Gang War 3!" someone cries again. Having the prices/rarity will be great, but that's 3 months away.
@Kan, unless I am mistaken, if you want to play something other than Escher and Goliath, you need the books. If you want access to other weapons, you need the books. If you want access to new rules, scenarios and characters, you need the book.
It's kinda like DLC in a lot of games, sure, you don't have to buy it, but the DLC is actually filling out the fundamentals of the game as well as providing new story content and weapons. If you don't buy it, you will be locked out of the best version of the game and left behind.
Alternately, if you are simply enthused and excited about the product, you keep buying in. Killing that enthusiasm in such a sloppy, bad-optics way is a big mistake for GW, and 'face-palm so hard it hurts' for the fans by the sound of it. Snatching defeat out of the jaws of victory and all that.
The part that I don't get about people being so pissy over is that since day one, GW made it clear we were getting a "Compilation" book like Blood Bowl got.
Honest question: Is it possible to play Blood Bowl without the box set? Bonus question: Will it be possible to play Necromunda without the box set?
Yes to both.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
MajorTom11 wrote: @Kan, unless I am mistaken, if you want to play something other than Escher and Goliath, you need the books. If you want access to other weapons, you need the books. If you want access to new rules, scenarios and characters, you need the book.
It's kinda like DLC in a lot of games, sure, you don't have to buy it, but the DLC is actually filling out the fundamentals of the game as well as providing new story content and weapons. If you don't buy it, you will be locked out of the best version of the game and left behind.
Alternately, if you are simply enthused and excited about the product, you keep buying in. Killing that enthusiasm in such a sloppy, bad-optics way is a big mistake for GW, and 'face-palm so hard it hurts' for the fans by the sound of it. Snatching defeat out of the jaws of victory and all that.
Legacy rules are available for the old gangs, the other rules sets are out there still in circulation. Honestly, if they want to step it up, they should release content on the website and knock off the money grab with the half hearted attempts with the additional books, unless there was something serious, such as the WD rules releases for the next couple of months of White dwarf content included.... Proofreading something for that cost should not even be an issue...
It's not really possible to play either Blood Bowl or Necromunda with the box set rules book. Both rule books only cover a very limited version. Well, you can play a simplified version of the games with the box sets, but certainly not anything close to the previous versions of both games.
Both rule books are so tied in with the other contents of the box sets so they can't really be released as a stand-alone product. They would both require heavy editing first, something GW so far has not been willing to do.
Legacy rules are available for the old gangs, the other rules sets are out there still in circulation.
Neither rule books are really compatible with the legacy pdfs for old gangs/teams. The Necromunda Gangs of Legends pdf is made for the Gang War system, not the Underhive Rule Book system. With Blood Bowl, the Teams of Legend pdf belongs to the 'full version', not the limited version of the rule book.
The part that I don't get about people being so pissy over is that since day one, GW made it clear we were getting a "Compilation" book like Blood Bowl got.
Honest question: Is it possible to play Blood Bowl without the box set?
No. You can get the rulebook via the digital app, and you can buy pitches and dice separately, but you can't get the throwing range ruler or the special play cards outside the box set.
Bonus question: Will it be possible to play Necromunda without the box set?
Not at present, as you can't get the rulebook any other way. Or the templates.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And on last night's Warhammer TV feed, playing Necromunda as a one-off skirmish game - choosing a gang the same way you choose an army for 40k and paying the "points" cost appropriately - was mentioned as a perfectly valid mode of play. That means buying nothing but Necromunda Underhive and playing that is a perfectly acceptable way to do things.
AndrewGPaul wrote: And on last night's Warhammer TV feed, playing Necromunda as a one-off skirmish game - choosing a gang the same way you choose an army for 40k and paying the "points" cost appropriately - was mentioned as a perfectly valid mode of play. That means buying nothing but Necromunda Underhive and playing that is a perfectly acceptable way to do things.
Sure, buying Burning of Prospero and only using it as a self-contained board game is also perfectly valid, although GW know damn well that people who do that are a tiny minority.
And on last night's Warhammer TV feed, playing Necromunda as a one-off skirmish game - choosing a gang the same way you choose an army for 40k and paying the "points" cost appropriately - was mentioned as a perfectly valid mode of play. That means buying nothing but Necromunda Underhive and playing that is a perfectly acceptable way to do things.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Information about cult:
Donc pour vous repondre:
- les règles sont sur 5 pages et contiennent les règles de composition, campagnes (revenus et territoires, capture denos hommes, expérience, actions après batailles), de compétences accessibles, les aptitudes spécifiques de l'adepte, la liste en elle même avec coût en crédit et enfin la liste des équipements (génériques et spécifique à la faction).
- la liste comprend un adepte qui sera le leader (est un psyker), 0-2 hybrides acolytes, 0-2 aberrants (qui sont des grosses brutes) et en Gangers basique des hybrides néophytes.
- les gangs du culte ont accès au laser minier, bioknout, épée d'os, combinaison NBC etc...
-Honnêtement je suis super content de voir ce style d'articles dans leWD ! Ça me rappel le très vieux format quand mordheim était encore parmi nous !
With google:
- the rules are on 5 pages and contain the rules of composition, campaigns (income and territories, capture of our men, experience, actions after battles), accessible skills, specific skills of the adept, the list in itself with cost in credit and finally the list of equipment (generic and specific to the faction).
- the list includes a follower who will be the leader (is a psyker), 0-2 hybrid acolytes, 0-2 aberrant (who are big brutes) and basic Gangers neophyte hybrids.
- cult gangs have access to mining laser, bioknout, bone sword, NBC combination etc ...
-Honly I'm really happy to see this style of articles in the WD! It reminds me of the very old format when mordheim was still here!
AndrewGPaul wrote: And on last night's Warhammer TV feed, playing Necromunda as a one-off skirmish game - choosing a gang the same way you choose an army for 40k and paying the "points" cost appropriately - was mentioned as a perfectly valid mode of play. That means buying nothing but Necromunda Underhive and playing that is a perfectly acceptable way to do things.
Sure, buying Burning of Prospero and only using it as a self-contained board game is also perfectly valid, although GW know damn well that people who do that are a tiny minority.
So? "a minority" is different from claiming "it can't ever be done". Neither Andy Hoare nor myself ever claimed that it's the way to play, just a way to play. There's at least one person on Dakka who intends to do that, for one thing.
More info about the cult
the follower has access to special abilities, he starts without skills but instead he has an aptitude of adept, it can be a familiar or allow other members of the gang to revive the 1 to the cac in a certain radius.
The neophytes have access to almost everything available in the box of figurines: shotguns, auto rifles, submachine gun, flamethrower, lance-lance, grenade launcher, chainsaw, energy mass, combat knife as well as the 3 heavy weapons.
On the other hand no pistol bolter, no pickaxe (one can take only for the aberants) and no lance gun. In contrast, neophytes may have laser guns and flamethrower guns.
They have 6+ armor that gives you an extra +1 endurance bonus against gas if you pay them a respirator.
One can pay them an extra arm, to win an extra ACS attack (considered to be done with a knife) or better to allow them to move and shoot with a cumbersome weapon.
Otherwise we now know what "perforant" (rending it seems to me in English) for the chain saw: on a 6 on a jet to hurt, the attack inflicts additional damage.
Chairman Aeon wrote: Honest question: Is it possible to play Blood Bowl without the box set? Bonus question: Will it be possible to play Necromunda without the box set?
You need at least one copy of the box set for NEC, because AFAIK that's the only way to get the core rulebook. Other than that, you don't need to card floor tiles, and you can buy the miniatures separately.
And yes, I know you can find copies of the rules for the original Necromunda online in various places, but if that's what you are interested in you don't need anything from the new Necromunda.
Baxx wrote: It's not really possible to play either Blood Bowl or Necromunda with the box set rules book.
Doesn't matter how many times you say it, that will never be true, especially in the case of Blood Bowl.
It's not true? Then tell me if we had a game of Blood Bowl and I fielded a team of Nurgle, on what page in the rule book you say it's possible to play with can we find description of "Decay" skill? Horns skill? Foul Appearance skill? Give me those pages numbers, or I'm simply telling the truth. Even the skills that are listed in the rulebook are incorrect.
The same is equally true for Necromunda. Let's say you and me had a game of Necromunda, and I fielded a Heavy Stubber and a Chainsword. On which page in the Underhive rule book would this be described? What if I fielded a fighter with the "Lie Low" skill? Give me those page numbers!
I have compiled a collection of all rules into a single document for both games, believe me when I say I know what I'm talking about.
Sure, check out the following two sentences I wrote:
"Both rule books only cover a very limited version. Well, you can play a simplified version of the games with the box sets, but certainly not anything close to the previous versions of both games."
Remember the previous rules set for Blood Bowl? It all the teams and all the skills in it. Remember the previous rules set for Necromunda? It had all the gangs, the chainsword, the heavy stubber, all the skills, all the other weapons and equipment.
Does "White Dwarf Exclusive" actually mean that these rules will only be available in the magazine, or will they show up in some Gang War book down the road? Newcromunda already has a problem with the rules being spread all over the place, this just seems to make that worse.
Very interesting! The leaked page doesn't give a lot of information, so far it's basically just renaming a standard games with minor tweaks. Curious how only Acolytes (Champions) and Aberrants (Juves) give double value when sold to the Guilders. Who would have guessed that? I would think all fighters or if only a selection, I would think Adepts (Leaders) and Acolytes (Champions). It's been about 15 years since I fielded a Genestealer Cult in Necromunda, looking forward to do it again (this time with official rules).
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ecurtz wrote: Does "White Dwarf Exclusive" actually mean that these rules will only be available in the magazine, or will they show up in some Gang War book down the road? Newcromunda already has a problem with the rules being spread all over the place, this just seems to make that worse.
This is nothing compared to what Blood Bowl went through the previous year. Limited event cards, limited event special characters, weather tables in sold-out product, sold-out dice, pdfs, app and white dwarf articles. GW made a nice collection covering about 95% of all this material into the Almanac compendium after 1 year. They also released all the white dwarf articles for free in some other app. It could be likely to expect something similar in the future, but nothing is certain and I don't think they will confirm or deny anything at this point.
The Acolytes (1st and 2nd-generation hybrids) and Aberrants are the ones with the most obvious signs of genestealer ancestry. That's why they're worth more.
AndrewGPaul wrote: And on last night's Warhammer TV feed, playing Necromunda as a one-off skirmish game - choosing a gang the same way you choose an army for 40k and paying the "points" cost appropriately - was mentioned as a perfectly valid mode of play. That means buying nothing but Necromunda Underhive and playing that is a perfectly acceptable way to do things.
Sure, buying Burning of Prospero and only using it as a self-contained board game is also perfectly valid, although GW know damn well that people who do that are a tiny minority.
Unlike Imperial Knights Renegade, which people only ever bought as a standalone boardgame.
AndrewGPaul wrote: The Acolytes (1st and 2nd-generation hybrids) and Aberrants are the ones with the most obvious signs of genestealer ancestry. That's why they're worth more.
regarding the GCults; this version will focus on the mining cults of the ashwastes coming into contact with a genestealer, so will use the Neophyte Hybrids kit as its base. expect to see a larger more detailed cults gang at a later date when they explore hive secondus. but this will help provide an additional two gangs by the beginning of the summer.
Chopstick wrote: Aberrant are certainly not the equivelant to Juves. Completely lack the Juves fast learning ability and probably not squishy.
Ok, they will however follow all the standard rules for Juves except they can't become Specialists. You even receive Aberrants from Settlement special territories.
I'm guessing we'll see a bunch of new weapons in their "House" List, maybe no updates to Trading post until GW3.
AndrewGPaul wrote: The Acolytes (1st and 2nd-generation hybrids) and Aberrants are the ones with the most obvious signs of genestealer ancestry. That's why they're worth more.
regarding the GCults; this version will focus on the mining cults of the ashwastes coming into contact with a genestealer, so will use the Neophyte Hybrids kit as its base. expect to see a larger more detailed cults gang at a later date when they explore hive secondus. but this will help provide an additional two gangs by the beginning of the summer.
Chopstick wrote: Aberrant are certainly not the equivelant to Juves. Completely lack the Juves fast learning ability and probably not squishy.
Ok, they will however follow all the standard rules for Juves except they can't become Specialists. You even receive Aberrants from Settlement special territories.
I'm guessing we'll see a bunch of new weapons in their "House" List, maybe no updates to Trading post until GW3.
I'm happy with the effort to develop the backgrounds and the alternative gang systems that we had to scratch together from the Outrider book, and online in the past. At least this will give people some additional gangs to play with until the rest of the other releases creep their way into the circulation.
Make sure you keep an eye on the Necromunda website, the legacy gangs, rosters, and quick play sheets are available, Templates are your old plastic templates, ( That you probably have 20 or so like I do.)
Those pets are really interesting, are they coming out any time this year?
AndrewGPaul wrote: The Acolytes (1st and 2nd-generation hybrids) and Aberrants are the ones with the most obvious signs of genestealer ancestry. That's why they're worth more.
regarding the GCults; this version will focus on the mining cults of the ashwastes coming into contact with a genestealer, so will use the Neophyte Hybrids kit as its base. expect to see a larger more detailed cults gang at a later date when they explore hive secondus. but this will help provide an additional two gangs by the beginning of the summer.
Chopstick wrote: Aberrant are certainly not the equivelant to Juves. Completely lack the Juves fast learning ability and probably not squishy.
Ok, they will however follow all the standard rules for Juves except they can't become Specialists. You even receive Aberrants from Settlement special territories.
What are you talking about? It specifically says you get Neophytes from Settlements instead of Juves.
Baxx wrote: It's not really possible to play either Blood Bowl or Necromunda with the box set rules book.
Doesn't matter how many times you say it, that will never be true, especially in the case of Blood Bowl.
It's not true? Then tell me if we had a game of Blood Bowl and I fielded a team of Nurgle, on what page in the rule book you say it's possible to play with can we find description of "Decay" skill? Horns skill? Foul Appearance skill? Give me those pages numbers, or I'm simply telling the truth. Even the skills that are listed in the rulebook are incorrect.
The same is equally true for Necromunda. Let's say you and me had a game of Necromunda, and I fielded a Heavy Stubber and a Chainsword. On which page in the Underhive rule book would this be described? What if I fielded a fighter with the "Lie Low" skill? Give me those page numbers!
I have compiled a collection of all rules into a single document for both games, believe me when I say I know what I'm talking about.
Agreed a 100%. Those that are saying otherwise are lying to themselves
Baxx wrote: It's not really possible to play either Blood Bowl or Necromunda with the box set rules book.
Doesn't matter how many times you say it, that will never be true, especially in the case of Blood Bowl.
It's not true? Then tell me if we had a game of Blood Bowl and I fielded a team of Nurgle, on what page in the rule book you say it's possible to play with can we find description of "Decay" skill? Horns skill? Foul Appearance skill? Give me those pages numbers, or I'm simply telling the truth. Even the skills that are listed in the rulebook are incorrect.
The same is equally true for Necromunda. Let's say you and me had a game of Necromunda, and I fielded a Heavy Stubber and a Chainsword. On which page in the Underhive rule book would this be described? What if I fielded a fighter with the "Lie Low" skill? Give me those page numbers!
I have compiled a collection of all rules into a single document for both games, believe me when I say I know what I'm talking about.
Agreed a 100%. Those that are saying otherwise are lying to themselves
This argument is ridiculous. Both Blood Bowl and N17 were complete, playable games out of the box.
What they weren't were carbon copies of the previous editions with all the options contained therein. So no, you can't field a nurgle team when playing with just the core box, you can field either a human or an orc team. The core box was not designed to support every legacy miniature out there, it was designed to support the core box and that's it.
Whether you like it or not does not change the fact that the core box of Blood Bowl, and the core box of Necromunda, were both fully playable self contained games. Crying over the fact that you had to buy a couple of extra books is, quite frankly, getting old. I'm not saying I agree with Games Workshop's decision to break the game up into a core box and a bunch of overpriced (and poorly written) expansion books, but that's the reality of the situation, either get over it or stop playing.
To use your own word, your whole argument is ridiculous. Necro "as is" is as playable as a free demo of a video game is playable. Both are clearly not the whole game experience. (Hell, the free demo of most sports games, let you only play single match, with the same two teams.... sounds familiar)
You might naively accept such practices, but ill always decry them.
streetsamurai wrote: To use your own word, your whole argument is ridiculous. Necro "as is" is as playable as a free demo of a video game is playable. Both are clearly not the whole game experience. (Hell, the free demo of most sports games, let you only play single match, with the same two teams.... sounds familiar)
You might naively accept such practices, but ill always live in a fantasy world where unrealistic statements are completely rational and not at all absolutely backwards and objectively and factually false..
I've played several games with both Bloodbowl and Necromunda. Didn't have to buy a single item to finish any of those games. Played all the scenarios in the underhive book completely.
How is that, in your make believe world where GW is equivocal to satan, not a complete fething game?
Seriously, please go troll some other forum, or better yet don't. It's sad.
Unsurprisingly, youve missed the point yet again. Ive played numerous games of nhl 2017 with the demo, doesnt mean i played the real game. And where did i say that gw is satan? Theyre only a typical corp and theyll try to push the envelope as much as their customers let them
And the ad hominem, and the changing of my post is cute (even if ot reeked of 2005). Rather sad that i seem to bother you that much.
Anyways aint these kind of things against the rules of the forum, or only those that sometime criticize gw gets suspended for breaking the rules?
