Damn, I love using Jokaero and would definitely buy a new sculpt if it fit in stylistically with the existing model. I use two in my Inquisition detachment for 40K. I would add a third but three of the same pose doesn't appeal to me. Ifalna painted both of mine. One is black/grey and the other is more orangutan orange. The sculpts were nice in metal. Not sure if Finecast is as good. Hopefully GW will add a new model in BSF, 40K, or Kill Team.
The other minis were painted by me so they are not quite as pretty as the space apes.
GaroRobe wrote: Jokaero is being added next, according to the White Dwarf. Sadly, it's using his current model, which means he probably won't get a new one in BSF. Which is a shame, since this game seems like the perfect chance to make a plastic monkey
If you don't play in GW shops there's always this guy!
Looking back at the original description of Zoats in Rogue Trader, they might be willing to be friendly if they are independent of Tyranid control. They might also be psychic.
Veteran Sergeant wrote: Bummed that the Zoat's rules for Kill Team make it a wandering monster. I have 7 of them. I wanted to make a Kill Team of all Zoats.
No reason this still can't happen - takes a bit more writing effort this way though!
Veteran Sergeant wrote: Bummed that the Zoat's rules for Kill Team make it a wandering monster. I have 7 of them. I wanted to make a Kill Team of all Zoats.
As another owner of several Zoats I expected something like this, even though they wrote:
Some other highlights include adding, get this, ZOATS to Kill Team
And of course the 40k rules will limit them to one model....
Veteran Sergeant wrote: Bummed that the Zoat's rules for Kill Team make it a wandering monster. I have 7 of them. I wanted to make a Kill Team of all Zoats.
No reason this still can't happen - takes a bit more writing effort this way though!
I honestly don't play 40K much anymore. I'd bring my All Zoats Kill Team the same reason I wanted to make an All Squats Kill Team.
I imagine Zoats can proxy for Tyranid Warriors. Can I make a Kill Team of all Warriors? I don't care if it wins. Having a kill team of all Zoat models is an automatic win anyway.
Veteran Sergeant wrote: Bummed that the Zoat's rules for Kill Team make it a wandering monster. I have 7 of them. I wanted to make a Kill Team of all Zoats.
No reason this still can't happen - takes a bit more writing effort this way though!
I honestly don't play 40K much anymore. I'd bring my All Zoats Kill Team the same reason I wanted to make an All Squats Kill Team.
I imagine Zoats can proxy for Tyranid Warriors. Can I make a Kill Team of all Warriors? I don't care if it wins. Having a kill team of all Zoat models is an automatic win anyway.
That’s how I use mine. I think when you consider all the crucial characteristics it’s the only real choice. I keep hoping GW makes them another full Nid allied faction in 40k
My gaming group is thinking of getting an expansion for BSF (we've already got the Ambull one and the card-only ones). Do any of them add anything interesting to the discovery deck (as far as I can tell, only Traitor Command even has new discovery cards) or introduce interesting new gameplay mechanics?
So the Zoats were likely never tyranid creatures at all. Wooo!
Um. I kind of like that, to be honest (it makes the universe bigger, in the same way that genestealers being tyranids made it smaller), but... stomping this hard on the nostalgia button to sell a single model while decreeing that the nostalgia is factually wrong is some serious cognitive dissonance territory.
JB wrote: Looking back at the original description of Zoats in Rogue Trader, they might be willing to be friendly if they are independent of Tyranid control. They might also be psychic.
So the Zoats were likely never tyranid creatures at all. Wooo!
Um. I kind of like that, to be honest (it makes the universe bigger, in the same way that genestealers being tyranids made it smaller), but... stomping this hard on the nostalgia button to sell a single model while decreeing that the nostalgia is factually wrong is some serious cognitive dissonance territory.
To be honest given that the information was Zoats were Hive Mind diplomats sent out to find and incorporate smart creatures peacefully into the Tyranid hive mind to expand and grow.. Yeah that fluff wasn't going to last.
The most recent Zoat lore was courtesy of Regimental Standard, where the Imperium claimed to have bravely fought off the Zoats, who tried to deceive them that "Something bad was coming and we're only fleeing" aka the Tyranids are coming, but the Imperium was too smart for them, and bravely killed the xenos before they could invade the Imperium.
"Come on men, their white flag is no use against our muskets!"
But it also ties into the older Zoat lore about some fleeting from the Nids, so it could still work for Rogue Trade era purist.
Hmm... what size base is he on. I'm planning on using the secretly.weapon base kickstarter to do all the heroes and need to update my backing total.now
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, tyranids used to have access to squigs, and from my recall, zoats were never fully integrated tyranid creatures. The exact detail of how they weren't fully integrated can be flexed as much as required to tell a.good story.
So the Zoats were likely never tyranid creatures at all. Wooo!
Um. I kind of like that, to be honest (it makes the universe bigger, in the same way that genestealers being tyranids made it smaller), but... stomping this hard on the nostalgia button to sell a single model while decreeing that the nostalgia is factually wrong is some serious cognitive dissonance territory.
I’m not seeing any retcon there.
I’m seeing a huge part that states they are mysterious and unknown, but nothing that changed their old fluff.
Visually yes, it’s changed a fair bit in design, most notably its weapons.
The “final” BSF expansion has been announced in today’s Preview livestream; called Ascension, it covers the Fortress itself starting to wake up and send out its own internal defence forces aka giant spindle drones.
For reference, they’re on dreadnought (i.e. 60mm) bases.
I quite think I’d like some to use in Adeptus Titanicus for that monster mash scenario in Doom of Molech.
Just because it's the final set of challenges doesnt mean that more explorers or explorer packs cant be released for it, either at retail or through WD.
Maybe there will be some more one off content in White Dwarf before the 'end'. I wonder now, though, whether we will see a Blackstone Annual 2020, or not?
I feel like since the game was released people have done nothing but clamor for more explorers, especially from some of the more forgotten lore and corners of the universe.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I think it'd be fun if each expansion brings with it slightly more dangerous (and potentially larger) versions of the Spindle Drone, the idea being that the deeper one gets within the Fortress, the more varied and lethal it's "protectors" get.
Nice to see them (almost) doing exactly what I'd hoped they'd do.
Am I the only one hoping that the end of BSF narrative and the Psychic Awakening story will bring those Blackstone aliens into the wider 40k universe as a new faction?
Malika2 wrote: Am I the only one hoping that the end of BSF narrative and the Psychic Awakening story will bring those Blackstone aliens into the wider 40k universe as a new faction?
Another faction made up of faceless alien drones from the dawn of time who ride around in flying pyramids?
Malika2 wrote: Am I the only one hoping that the end of BSF narrative and the Psychic Awakening story will bring those Blackstone aliens into the wider 40k universe as a new faction?
Another faction made up of faceless alien drones from the dawn of time who ride around in flying pyramids?
Rather that than more space marines, besides it's the execution that matters.
It wouldn't even have to be limited to robots, an army of Old Ones machines could easily be written to include eldar, orks and other of Old Ones creations. Brought back in to the fold to fulfill their function.
I don't really think they need a faction; they feel like a force of nature that got shoehorned into some 40k rules to sell more (not that I have a problem with that).
I really just wish BSF had not had those exorbitant prices. ~$60 for a few guys (the worst by far being the nurgle set) or maybe a monster, or the one major expansion costing nearly the price of the core with a really small selection past some heroes were just awful prices.
The game has an enjoyable core and I really like the aesthetic of almost everything released, but the prices GW seems to think their rules are worth is just mind-boggling. It isn't even that I'm mad; when you can buy a whole game for that, or a large piece for a wargame, or when a game like Kingdom Death (not saying it's perfect, just a smallish operation with high production values) can put out an expansion with a pile of cards and a number of full sprues for that price, the competition is just too stiff.
It would be kinda cool to have a 40k version of Endless Spells, where its just random xenos roaming the battlefield that both players could potentially control.
GaroRobe wrote: It would be kinda cool to have a 40k version of Endless Spells, where its just random xenos roaming the battlefield that both players could potentially control.
It would be nice to have a book for Mercenaries and agents, with all these unaligned models in there, and they could fit Rogue Traders, Inquisitors, and Assassins. Maybe stick things like Kroot Mercs, Blood Axe warbands, Eldar Corsairs, and give rules for taking them as a allied/mercenary detachment to an army
highlord tamburlaine wrote: I feel like since the game was released people have done nothing but clamor for more explorers, especially from some of the more forgotten lore and corners of the universe.
This would have been a perfect opportunity!
Well, I think BSF had a decent support. Sure, 'No Respite' was lame and they should have made rules for some Explorers and the Gellerpox rabble from KT: Rogue Trader via WD. But if someone would have told me two years ago that we get a board game with Rogue traders, an Imperial Robot, an Ambull, a Zoat and Traitor Guard...
highlord tamburlaine wrote: I feel like since the game was released people have done nothing but clamor for more explorers, especially from some of the more forgotten lore and corners of the universe.
This would have been a perfect opportunity!
Well, I think BSF had a decent support. Sure, 'No Respite' was lame and they should have made rules for some Explorers and the Gellerpox rabble from KT: Rogue Trader via WD. But if someone would have told me two years ago that we get a board game with Rogue traders, an Imperial Robot, an Ambull, a Zoat and Traitor Guard...
I Agree. Any love for minor xenos is greatly appreciated. Zoats, Ambulls, Jokaero, robots, and kroot check all the right boxes for me. Rogue traders and Spindle drones are a bonus
Sad that this is the last expansion here. BSF is pretty much the only 40k thing I do.
Thankfully dungeon crawlers are hot right now...I did the Infinity Defiance KS and there's another running now for Wolfenstein w/ some pretty nice looking HIPS figures.
It would have been nice for them to keep this open and throw us a fun new bad guy/explorer once or twice a year, but it had a good run.
Heres hoping it moves back to AoS for the next Quest run, expanding on some of the creatures introduced through Warcry would be fantastic, plus it introduces a new way to bring in new monster races for the likes of Destruction.
Also, with the number of new factions that have been added, the hero options are great, even if they just focused on Order, although mixing it up a little would be nice.
warl0rdb0b wrote: Heres hoping it moves back to AoS for the next Quest run, expanding on some of the creatures introduced through Warcry would be fantastic, plus it introduces a new way to bring in new monster races for the likes of Destruction.
Also, with the number of new factions that have been added, the hero options are great, even if they just focused on Order, although mixing it up a little would be nice.
I enjoyed Silver Tower more than Blackstone Fortress (not tried the other AoS Quest, because my group doesn't really like one vs. the rest games). Just seemed generally a lot more fun, with loads of quirky little mechanics and interesting themes for each section. BSF feels like every game is kind of the same and waiting until the end of the mission to get loot is no fun. Only the miniatures really redeem it in my eyes. Regardless of which setting they use for the next WHQ (the Old World is still an option, I believe, as is the Horus Heresy or some other not-quite-40k period, and I guess the Blood Bowl setting unless that is officially in one of the fantasy settings now...) I hope it has more of the spirit of Silver Tower.
warl0rdb0b wrote: Heres hoping it moves back to AoS for the next Quest run, expanding on some of the creatures introduced through Warcry would be fantastic, plus it introduces a new way to bring in new monster races for the likes of Destruction.
Also, with the number of new factions that have been added, the hero options are great, even if they just focused on Order, although mixing it up a little would be nice.
I enjoyed Silver Tower more than Blackstone Fortress (not tried the other AoS Quest, because my group doesn't really like one vs. the rest games). Just seemed generally a lot more fun, with loads of quirky little mechanics and interesting themes for each section. BSF feels like every game is kind of the same and waiting until the end of the mission to get loot is no fun. Only the miniatures really redeem it in my eyes. Regardless of which setting they use for the next WHQ (the Old World is still an option, I believe, as is the Horus Heresy or some other not-quite-40k period, and I guess the Blood Bowl setting unless that is officially in one of the fantasy settings now...) I hope it has more of the spirit of Silver Tower.
I preferred the tone/story of ST over BSF, but preferred the mechanics of BSF over the artificial/usually non-choices of the ST's labyrinths. Honestly, neither game is all that spectacular, but they're co-ops that can be played casually, so fill a gaming niche. I really don't see a need for another one, though would have liked a continuation of ST.
I think the game system was best developed in Blackstone, but they have kind of mined the low hanging fruit in the 40K universe for that kind of game now. Vs. Tyranids and Necrons have been done in game systems other than Quest already. Silver Tower was a decent game, but replayability was limited, and I think Hammerhal was hurt by requiring a GM. I’d be down with seeing a better supported Blackstone style game in the AoS setting if there are to be any more games in the Quest series.
The Blackstone Fortress stirs. The shifting chambers rebuild themselves over and over and ancient defence systems awaken, making navigating the mysterious structure more hazardous than ever. As their aims diverge, the explorers are tested like never before. Doom hangs over Precipice - if anyone is to warn the galaxy about the rising threat of the fortress, each of the survivors will have to confront their destiny.
Requires a copy of Warhammer Quest Blackstone Fortress and Escalation to play.
The box contains:
2 Guardian Drone Citadel Miniatures
15 page Edge of the Abyss booklet
62 (?) cards
11 board tiles
55 counters and markers
1 assembly guide
1 Repository envelope
This box also includes additional secret elements to discover as you continue your quest into the darkness:
1 Ascension booklet
??? cards
1 secret envelope
I do love the idea of a giant spindle drone, but sad to see the run of expansions die. I am still working on the rest, but I thought I would have a long run of catch up as more expansions were issued. Yet to get a proper game in with my own models!
Still, all things come to an end. Perhaps there will be more in WD in future, but who knows.
IMHO what really killed this was the terrible nurgle expansion, and the pricing points more generally here. I could have seen the expansions being more widely bought, but I may be wrong here.
I dont think the expansions sold well~ I was super keen on the thought of them until I saw the prices, which boxed me out on principle. I'm fortune enough to be able to afford them if I wanted, but it's just too much money for too little plastic.
I'm hoping the next incarnation of fantasy is more reasonably priced.
Couldn't agree more. They could have gotten £25 out of me for the Zoat, but they're pricing it at like £50?? + card, so instead of £25 they're getting noting. Many other people have made the same choice as I have and I wouldn't be surprised if that's what killed BSF.
JWBS wrote: Couldn't agree more. They could have gotten £25 out of me for the Zoat, but they're pricing it at like £50?? + card, so instead of £25 they're getting noting. Many other people have made the same choice as I have and I wouldn't be surprised if that's what killed BSF.
They’re not losing sales. They will get their money when they release the Zoat for 40K, necromunda or anything else. The model will sell, and if it’s digital sculpted, then they can make squads easy. While they lose out on initial sales their investment is still solid. They are just scraping the cream off the top sort to speak.
JWBS wrote: Couldn't agree more. They could have gotten £25 out of me for the Zoat, but they're pricing it at like £50?? + card, so instead of £25 they're getting noting. Many other people have made the same choice as I have and I wouldn't be surprised if that's what killed BSF.
Did the Zoat box ever make it to the pre-order section? I can't see it on the GW site, but I'd've thought it would've been priced in line with the Ambull or other smaller expansion boxes, in the £35-£37.50 range - which is still expensive for what you get, but not £50 expensive.
So, I've only looked at the new Warhammer Quests as they release. Are we still stuck with bestiaries that only include what's in the boxes + maybe a few articles in White Dwarf? I ask, because the character progression and "almost everything we make for WHFB" bestiary of the original is what cements it as my favorite GW game ever made, and the new one's haven't interested me due to the limited bestiaries.
Psychopomp, the AOS systems that used different mechanics but the same stat cards can take a ton of heroes (IIRC at least a few per faction when released) and decent number of baddies.
BSF is much more narratively restricted. It has a pretty limited number of baddies and one expansion has a second hero pack, which I would have eaten up at about 1/2-2/3 the price offered, but it really is a fairly limited narrative, not a general sprawl like the old WHQ. There are some more baddies and modes of play from WD etc., but they're generally still within a narrow theme (weird aliens, chaos goons; the majority of player characters are imperial).
cuda1179 wrote: Just out of curiosity, did we ever get to see the rules (40k or BSF) for the Zoat?
White Dwarf. the new one with the Space Wolves on it... it says 452 on the cover.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Psychopomp wrote: So, I've only looked at the new Warhammer Quests as they release. Are we still stuck with bestiaries that only include what's in the boxes + maybe a few articles in White Dwarf? I ask, because the character progression and "almost everything we make for WHFB" bestiary of the original is what cements it as my favorite GW game ever made, and the new one's haven't interested me due to the limited bestiaries.
If you want, you can use what you want to, but these guys they have in the expansions are lethal as is.
Umm, I don’t know what copy of White Dwarf 452 you got, but the Blackstone rules in it were for the Jokaero retinue character. The Zoat rules given in it were for Kill Team only.
totalfailure wrote: Umm, I don’t know what copy of White Dwarf 452 you got, but the Blackstone rules in it were for the Jokaero retinue character. The Zoat rules given in it were for Kill Team only.
The Kill Team rules for the Ambull were basically the same as the 40K rules, so I think he meant you can infer the Zoat's 40K rules by looking at those. No point value of cource.
Bsf can Segway Into a reboot of inquisitor at 24-32mm. Adding some inquisitor warband options. Then give us a real rogue trader/inquisitor warband codex for 40k. Where you can mix and match all these awesome models. Minus monsters and drones.
I would 100% buy an Inquisitor based 40k Quest game. I always felt the Blackstone fortress setting was too far removed from the world of 40k to make it really feel 'right'.
Soo... Ascension is $110 for 2 sprues of the same model with different mini-arms. And some GW-caliber rules.
I honestly find the pricing for this stuff alternatingly frustrating and baffling. Like, there have been some tempting sculpts, but I've only bought two sets of rules and no minis past the core.
Yeah. I might one day pick up the cultists, but beyond the initial box, BSF has been a bust for me.
And now its done, complete. No idea what happens next. Do they produce another AOSWQ? A non-linked sequel to BSF?
A proper Warhammer Quest range that produce rules and map bits for 40k and/or AoS? Just stop? No idea, but it feels like they utterly failed to capitalize on it (or produce anything lasting) long term.
Yeah, like, I feel like they're just fumbling around. First was a really pretty, hyperspecific core. Then a bunch of recycled characters. Then a whole core and expansion set of recycled models with poor interaction with the existing core. Then these which are super-expensive unique sculpts that feel like the price is designed to offset their cost (which I think was a poor move because it's a barrier to entry), except then they did that lame Nurgle rehash and charged the same ridiculous prices for them. Like, I feel like they're just trying gak to see what sticks, and there's no real model or strategy.
But overall, yes, I don't think there's been a real clear plan as to what they want to do with Quest.
Really they'd do well to do a complete remake of the original. It was simple, it was fun, it was unnecessarily cruel and unfair to the players. It was perfect!
Yeah, I would take a simple kind of harsh game to hang out with friends and play/throw dice cooperatively. Even the light board gamer in my group has said the WHQ line is overly easy.
spiralingcadaver wrote: Yeah, I would take a simple kind of harsh game to hang out with friends and play/throw dice cooperatively. Even the light board gamer in my group has said the WHQ line is overly easy.
If you've never played the original then try to track a copy down. It's beyond harsh.
Honestly the journey back to town after an adventure is often more harrowing than fighting Orcs and Minotaurs. The amount of time half our gold has been melted in a camp fire (we always blame the Elves and their hair spray!) are too numerable to count...
Silver Tower characters pack is better than 60$ for "bad guy expansion".
Also the BSF game system is pretty boring. And controlling the "bad guys" is actually way more fun. Playing as "heroes" didn't feel any better than a generic goon, so might as well play as a bunch of goons, plus they got more expansions.
I think the biggest failing of BSF is that you are playing as These Guys™ rather than Your Guys™.
If you could play as your own character, develop them as you wish, equip them with gear that you find as you go along, or save up for, and so on, that would be a dramatic improvement.
Plus there was also a time when a Quest expansion meant this, and not this.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I think the biggest failing of BSF is that you are playing as These Guys™ rather than Your Guys™.
If you could play as your own character, develop them as you wish, equip them with gear that you find as you go along, or save up for, and so on, that would be a dramatic improvement.
Plus there was also a time when a Quest expansion meant this, and not this.
Actual skills and levelups would be cool. Customizing makes a game last so much longer.
I think it probably would have all stuck had the prices been a bit lower though, the game has some great minis, nice setting / fluff, a more self-contained board game style for people that want it. Even the Nurgle xpac would have been completely acceptable had it been good value but they've just overpriced everything. I want the Zoat and I've spent loads on minis since the covid situation started but I've skipped the Zoat and I doubt I'll ever buy it.
JWBS wrote: I think it probably would have all stuck had the prices been a bit lower though, the game has some great minis, nice setting / fluff, a more self-contained board game style for people that want it. Even the Nurgle xpac would have been completely acceptable had it been good value but they've just overpriced everything. I want the Zoat and I've spent loads on minis since the covid situation started but I've skipped the Zoat and I doubt I'll ever buy it.
True.
I still have to buy Trator command myself, I cannot justify the price.
And I usually buy Chaos related stuff, but this was a bridge way too far for my wallet.
JWBS wrote: I think it probably would have all stuck had the prices been a bit lower though, the game has some great minis, nice setting / fluff, a more self-contained board game style for people that want it. Even the Nurgle xpac would have been completely acceptable had it been good value but they've just overpriced everything. I want the Zoat and I've spent loads on minis since the covid situation started but I've skipped the Zoat and I doubt I'll ever buy it.
This is exactly how I feel. I really wanted to buy into the Blackstone board game ...until I saw the price. Then I really wanted to buy the Ambull...until I saw the price. Then I really, really wanted the Zoat...until I saw the price. When I saw the two new drone things, I half-heartedly hoped that I could dare to dream...until, you know the story.
I ended up spending more on Shadows of Brimstone expansions than all the BSF stuff costs combined, but ai got a hell of a lot more value for it.
They totally have a plan, which is unfortunately to leverage fomo, nostalgia and some neat new models to milk a loyal player base. I really like the uber drones but that seems a bit pricey for an expansion.
Finding the middle ground is not something GW is known for unfortunately.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Expansions as we know them now. Introduce kooky models, such as Ambull and Zoat. Pack in some additional board tiles.
They've got to be meatier than they are now. The expansion with the cool new Cultists. That was like a Quest expansion of old. That for the price of Traitor Command/Ambull/etc. and it'd be perfect.
I agree on the personality side of things. By all means offer pre-constructed heroes for release, but is it that much more work to let us create our own? Is there any reason that a Rogue Trader can’t be the tank, or the DPS, or the healer? I say thee nay!
I do feel that Characters and Opponents should be separate expansions, overall.
Man the price of this expansion is pretty insane. That is up there with expensive kickstarters that include dozens of (admittedly inferior) minis.
I really want it, though, since it's the finale. I could just BARELY justify the last "main" expansion with the cultists and extra heroes, but this. . . this just seems like too much. I mean, they always seem like too much, but this one just seems like WAY too much.
Quasistellar wrote: Man the price of this expansion is pretty insane. That is up there with expensive kickstarters that include dozens of (admittedly inferior) minis.
I really want it, though, since it's the finale. I could just BARELY justify the last "main" expansion with the cultists and extra heroes, but this. . . this just seems like too much. I mean, they always seem like too much, but this one just seems like WAY too much.
Totally agree !! The false cost inflation because it IS the finale reeks of the dark Kirby Greed days.
And, really, for a finale, two drones is a pretty underwhelming no matter how big they are or if you can use them in 40K.
I gave up on BSF when I saw the first expansions price- and keep in mind I love the concept of rogue traders, and playing a game as a rogue trader. Converted myself up a unique one just to play as.
But I hope for the next incarnation of fantasy WHQ they either tone the price down on the expansions, or beef up the model count.
(Though that said, if one of the expansions has one or more Fimir... yeah, I'm not likely to resist buying that.)
Glad and sad in equal measure that BSF is coming to an end.
Sad because it had some cool ideas - being the first 40K Quest, the explorers, overlap with Kill Team, White Dwarf coverage, and for bringing back old favourites while introducing new interesting ones. Even tie-in novels. The game has been incredibly well supported for the better part of two years, and it would be good if it could bow out on a 2020 annual. There's still time to include Necrons in White Dwarf and they have some frigging cool new models incoming to make that happen( Doomstalker. Mic-drop. Nuff'said )...
Glad because the setting never lived up to its potential, its decision to go with bland Chaos baddies, the infamous Deathguard expansion...and yes, the price of expansions. The giant drones feel like characters that should have been introduced far sooner, and the final expansion could have introduced something far more interesting as the ultimate baddie( Doomstalker. CSI-Miami-drop ).
But hey, GW took a different approach to this Quest game and eggs were inevitably going to be broken to make that omelette. I didn't take the plunge but that WD Solitaire mission almost convinced me. I did purchase the Ambull kit for the model alone, but the other contents were at least interesting. The positives probably outweighed the negatives, even if one purchased just the core game and the 2019 annual.
Here's looking forward to the next Quest game, whatever it may be.
Sad to see this is the last expansion coming for this run. I must admit I have enjoyed seeing all the more rare 40k additions.
I see a lot of places have sold out of the core set and a few of the expansions.
What are peoples guess at how long it will be for you cannot get out of this stuff outside of scalpers on ebay. I do know it has already happened to a few of the card and smaller expasions.
I'm a completionist as well, but at the same time I really hate owning duplicate models. That allows my desire for all the BSF expansions to be defeated by my desire not to own duplicates of those 3 Plague Marines. But you better believe I've been looking for a miniatureless version of No Respite on eBay.
And it turns out I had $20 of store credit. That'll do! That brings the overall discount up to around 31%. Can't complain about that.
I'm surprised it requires Escalation. It's unusual for an expansion to require another expansion.
On the bright side at least it requires an expansion GW sells, rather than a card pack that was on sale for 18 nanoseconds before going out of stock forever.
Just go to the webstore and check for yourself, on some regions the old expansions, especially the english version, are gone.
In case thing don't sell, they just throw them in the loot crate like how they did with the Champion of Dreadfan box, with their heavily inflated price that's easily ate a big chunk out of their total "value" in those crates.
But a "Black stone fortress mystery crate" at half the total price MIGHT be a good buy, if that happen.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but without knowing print run, reprint rate, and expected sales volume, compared across lines, we have little to work with other than vaguely informed speculation about what selling "well" looks like. Even things like a kit selling out in a day is hard to gauge since GW often artificially limits things with short print runs to make them more desirable (the idea of limited edition print on demand is just absurd to me), besides less manipulative strategies like prioritizing reprinting kits that sell in high volumes or simply having supply issues or hedging with possibly over or under-printing in whichever way will be the best bet.
You can tell when a limited item hangs around that it failed to generate hype, and not a lot else.
They certainly seem to be pushing the guardian drones for use in 40k. That suggests a bit lack of faith in this 'final expansion' to sell in its own right.
"Get your Guardian Drones
Add these maniacal mechanoids to ANY Warhammer 40,000 army"
I don't remember the basic store link hyping up the 40K aspect for other expansions, or even the base game. Just that 40K rules are included is somewhere in the product description.
For these, the BSF aspect seems to be the afterthought.
"Get your Guardian Drones
Add these maniacal mechanoids to ANY Warhammer 40,000 army"
I don't remember the basic store link hyping up the 40K aspect. Just that 40K rules are included is somewhere in the product description.
For these, the BSF aspect seems to be the afterthought.
IDK about an afterthought, but yeah they're pushing the 40k use harder. And yeah, makes sense. If you want to use it in your board game, at retail you'll have put in $370. That's an insane price for what amounts to a single and mostly inflexible campaign narrative arc in a very light dungeon crawl.
I set my jaw and bought the original game, but I promised myself I wouldn't buy into the expansions, knowing they would be overpriced.
Instead, my son and I have been making custom characters and enemies for the game. Some of the more memorable were a Fallen Dark Angel masquerading as a regular Dark Angel, a Commissar and his IG bodyguards, a Black Rage Blood Angel Terminator and a Cyborg Ogryn.
On the enemies, we added things like actual Necrons, Dark Elf slavers, Tau pathfinders and a berserk Hellbrute. If we had a 40K minituature for it, we considered statting it up for the game as a possible enemy. We even delved into my D&D models (starting with a $4.99 Umber Hulk for an Ambull) for some weird enemies.
So, with Acension out it seems like the majority of expansions are OOP or headed that way. I've been grabbing whatever I can from Amazon and my LGS, but why is Traitor Command so expensive and hard to find now? Even loose models are crazy jacked up on ebay.
Prometheum5 wrote: So, with Acension out it seems like the majority of expansions are OOP or headed that way. I've been grabbing whatever I can from Amazon and my LGS, but why is Traitor Command so expensive and hard to find now? Even loose models are crazy jacked up on ebay.
Only the Ambull one is out of stock with GW itself (UK webstore at least), temporarily at that (along with the base game). For now, that is, as it's certainly just a matter of time before they all disappear, but I expect GW to at least keep them in stock for a short while after the release of this final expansion.
And... has there ever been a time when Traitor Command wasn't "so expensive"?
Prometheum5 wrote: So, with Acension out it seems like the majority of expansions are OOP or headed that way. I've been grabbing whatever I can from Amazon and my LGS, but why is Traitor Command so expensive and hard to find now? Even loose models are crazy jacked up on ebay.
As soon as people cannot get hold of them, the big bucks come out. Just look at the cards and the other expired expansions. It is getting harder to get hold of all the expansions including the core set.
I have a feeling they are clearing all their stock ready for the new warhammer quest game due later this year.
No Respite has already sold out worldwide I believe. I am surprised it’s been so popular due to the reprinted miniatures but the game content is meant to be good.
I’m happy I didn’t get into this back when it started. After the original release the expansions took “overpriced” to next levels even for this hobby, culminating in this last one where you get two flimsy drones and some rules for a flippin’ €85. When I saw that price on the GW preorders page I thought for a moment that I was accidentally looking at the Australian website
If there is a new Warhammer Quest later people should realize it will probably go down the same path. Game starts out nice and all but then if you want to keep it going with all the expansions GW will rip your wallet straight from your pocket along with a testicle or two.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Never bothered with the card packs. I think I didn't notice them at the time. Certainly wouldn't consider it now. Sheesh...
Yeah, that was a shock when I saw those sort of prices. I saw the card decks, thought "there's no way GW will make content worth $1 per card or whatever. Enough scenarios. pass." Apparently, my estimation of GW's content doesn't factor into their desirability
Aeneades wrote: No Respite has already sold out worldwide I believe. I am surprised it’s been so popular due to the reprinted miniatures but the game content is meant to be good.
Buying No Respite off ebay for $60 didn't feel awesome, but it's better than $75 from Amazon.
I'm assuming they are winding down in preparation for the next thing. There's not listings for many of the sets on the GW store sites anymore so seems like they are gonzo.
Only thing I am missing is the AI deck...which somehow I completely missed knowing about its existence. The really sad thing is that only my core set of BSF has been opened and played.
We liked it, but then discovered Imperial Assault...which is also now out of production.
OOP. FFG killed it last year. The expansion to get is Tyrants of Lothal...not actually a great expansion, but it adds the Death Troopers and the Thrawn agendas.
One of the nice things about IA is that it actually feels like a Star Wars story, and the Imperial player has missions and win conditions just like the Rebel heroes. It uses a modified Descent engine, and we find it quite the blast.
I saw all the card packs at Element Games last year. Sadly I was still only thinking about getting into BSF at the time, they are long gone since. I understand from reviewers that they aren't essential though.
Spent lockdown getting all the models painted and components edged, just waiting until we can meet face to face again so I can give it a whirl...
Oh, wow. Honestly, the pictures made the super drones look larger. I guess they shrink the drones they're fixing.
Well, there's some content I'll never interact with unless someone happens to split the game, but short of broken 40k rules I'm not sure what would be worth that to split. (Was already leaning away from such a move; this sealed it. Which sucks, since I like the BSF environment well, just not like that.)
I have to admit I’m confused as to exactly what GW was hoping to accomplish with this range.
I mean, I look at big box boardgames like Shadows of Brimstone, and I see active communities that recruit new members, buy tons of expansions, and then explore the other games out out by the same manufacturer (like Fortune and Goory or Last Night on Earth). This is what I thought GW was going to do with BSF, hook a new market.
Instead, they priced it high enough to keep out newbs and casuals, underproduced some extras enough to discourage completionists, and weakwatered the content too much for the actual gamers. Only people completely sold on the 40k universe ever got into this game, and it seems most of them are not talking it up as a great experience.
Did it make money? I’m sure it made plenty. Could it have made a lot more money for the company with a little long term thinking or market research? Absolutely. This seems like kind of an arrogant rookie mistake.
My next campaign will be house rules within a Necron pyramid ship.
I'll base it off of Space Marine Adventures, and use Spacehulk and home built corridors and tiles to expand the range, and include the hexs that come in the boxed set. Who knows, I might even add in the Blood Angel Space marine squads I got from Heroes 2, or a different Inquisitor, now that I have the pattern of how the stats are lined up.
I'm with Bob, though. Its like one or two diehards buy the sets, and everyone else just shows up to play a game, then that's it...
Dummy's should have included stats for the Kill Team cross over teams.
Can you imagine if they sold a main box competitive with Zombiecide on price and content that included a little rules pamphlet with stats for all the GW kits that don’t sell well?
100% with you, Bob. I'm perpetually mystified by the prices on this nonsense.
I love the aesthetic and the variety and run 40kRPGs so the esoteric baddies etc are perfect for me, but as a board gamer I felt it pretty seriously lacking.
I kind of like that they're trying for a narrative focus, but it still feels like it's bizarrely overpriced and broken up. There are literally no expansions that were just so cool I needed to have them. I got some of the rules for cheap, but haven't bought a model past the core. The only people I've seen go all-in are a few very invested in 40k as a setting, and some FOMO fanatics.
Having gotten my fair share of expensive board games, stuff like Gloomhaven (yeah, their minis suck), Kingdom Death, FFG, etc should make GW embarrassed re: their (charitably phrased) light BSF content vs. other co-op dungeon crawl or whatever you call the broad genre.
An updated and tightened up Warhammer Quest... in space. Or even just a Sigmarized return to Quest. Or a Space Hulk style reprint of Quest, which I'd hoped for since Space Hulk got re- released.
I just don't get it. You want people clamoring to collect it all or play the crap out of it? Like you guys said, give some sot of bestiary that lets you stat up all the weird junk in the range nobody buys.
If they'd priced and expanded on it like CMON or Flying Frog this could have been their money printer goes brrrr moment.
Sacredroach wrote: OOP. FFG killed it last year. The expansion to get is Tyrants of Lothal...not actually a great expansion, but it adds the Death Troopers and the Thrawn agendas.
One of the nice things about IA is that it actually feels like a Star Wars story, and the Imperial player has missions and win conditions just like the Rebel heroes. It uses a modified Descent engine, and we find it quite the blast.
I believe FFG just reprinted a load of IA stuff. Seen a lot come back into stock in Europe and saw them promoting it on social media. It’s true that they’re not making anything new for it though.
I too bought the final box. The price is ridiculous, of course. But I angrily shaked my fist in front of the screen - that'll show them!
Well, at the end of the day I have nice miniatures, board tiles, some cards and rules. It shouldn't be difficult to expand and tweak the game. Some tables (Vhorne an Grekh getting robbed in a drinking session, UR-025 looses in gambling, Amallyn seduces a Squat to fight with her in the next adventure...), new equipment, characters, opponents (it's kind of a large ship in space - there should be Genestealers) and final bosses (Patriarch, Void Dragon, lost Primarchs turned into mindless mutated monsters, Trazyn, Eldrad, the Red Gobbo - well, anyone but Obsidius Mallex) are easy to create. And as it's not a competitive game all is fine as long as you and the party have fun.
An updated and tightened up Warhammer Quest... in space. Or even just a Sigmarized return to Quest. Or a Space Hulk style reprint of Quest, which I'd hoped for since Space Hulk got re- released.
I just don't get it. You want people clamoring to collect it all or play the crap out of it? Like you guys said, give some sot of bestiary that lets you stat up all the weird junk in the range nobody buys.
If they'd priced and expanded on it like CMON or Flying Frog this could have been their money printer goes brrrr moment.
Seriously. When I saw that death guard expansion, I was pretty excited, because the idea of cheap expansions for recycled minis and expensive expansions for new content seemed so natural. I don't think my self-control could have held out if they had a dozen cheap scenarios that would have ended up with nice baddie variety that I could use in my RPG stuff or kill team, but those absurd prices...
shadowsfm wrote: Maybe gw was so proud of the game designers and sculptors, that they gave them a raise and having me pay the bill
Wow, though, I thought those were much bigger.
What a way to wrap things up. BSFs has been such a roller coaster. A great starter, a couple nostalgia buttons (overpriced, but still), a pair of chaos characters that don't really fit anywhere, a pretty decent hero and cultist expansion, the way overpriced recycling expansion and finally this wet splat.
Those big drones certainly aren't as tall as I had expected. They look nice though, but what a letdown on what was already an underwhelming way to wrap up the series.
I wonder if they'll ever make use of the various sculpts or digital resources of them outside of BSF. Seems such a waste to have things like a plastic crusader, yet only continue selling bloody finecast versions of them on the GW webstore. As a matter of fact, the majority of sculpts for BSF have been excellent, and it would be a shame if sprue layout and a disappointing expansion model will see them disappear before too long (yes, I picked up a few separately on ebay, plus the nicely priced box of only the cultist models). Perhaps they'll wait until the game is fully out of production to at least offer some of them as cheaper models, when it will no longer affect the sales of the overpriced expansions. I'm sure Necromunda players will happily get an Ambull sculpt at a less-inflated price.
It is a shame they didn't make the Hover Drone token as a standalone mini as well - four or five smaller ones packed onto a standard base would have looked good and made the price a little more palatable. :-/
Coenus Scaldingus wrote: Those big drones certainly aren't as tall as I had expected. They look nice though, but what a letdown on what was already an underwhelming way to wrap up the series.
I wonder if they'll ever make use of the various sculpts or digital resources of them outside of BSF. Seems such a waste to have things like a plastic crusader, yet only continue selling bloody finecast versions of them on the GW webstore. As a matter of fact, the majority of sculpts for BSF have been excellent, and it would be a shame if sprue layout and a disappointing expansion model will see them disappear before too long (yes, I picked up a few separately on ebay, plus the nicely priced box of only the cultist models). Perhaps they'll wait until the game is fully out of production to at least offer some of them as cheaper models, when it will no longer affect the sales of the overpriced expansions. I'm sure Necromunda players will happily get an Ambull sculpt at a less-inflated price.
Yeah I hope they are available separately beyond BSF- I really like the Ambull and Zoat models but the price and gaming guff that comes with them puts me off.
I also hope they don't dump them, things like the Zoat I'd like to pick up, but I can't justify* the near £100 to get the core game to make the card elements in the set playable.
* It's not that I don't want to own it, just that there are a lot of other things GW makes that I want to own first. Plus its short term nature as a product line, at least by what we can tell, means that GW will likely have it out of production before I clear through my buying list to reach it.
I hope Escalation sticks around for a while, really want the Rogue Trader and Psyker from that one, but can't quite cough up €85,- for two minis I really want.
BrookM wrote: I hope Escalation sticks around for a while, really want the Rogue Trader and Psyker from that one, but can't quite cough up €85,- for two minis I really want.
Your other option would be the Combat Arena game. It has all the heroes from Escalation. That's how I got them and then bought the gaming material on ebay (friend has the cultists).
I also hope they "release" their minis at some point. There are a lot of good ones in there, but as other said, not THAT good to dish out that much money cause of added stuff I wouldn't need.
Also in the WH40K universe: is there any other single or coop game? Cause far as I know this was supposed to be that, but reading other posts here, I shouldn't really consider saving up for it.
BaronIveagh wrote: Just remember, each squad of space marines only costs them $5 to $10 to make, total.
Yep, I'm not really seeing where you're going with this? GW has managed to make things even wider disparities between manufacturing and sales compared to normal unit cost? It looks like the drones are small sprues, and while I hope they're paying their artists okay wages for their labor (despite it being in my experience pretty generic SF of no special quality) the rules are really unimpressive for BSF. I would have loved a cheapish 40k dungeon crawl but they're charging designer prices for this.
BrookM wrote: I hope Escalation sticks around for a while, really want the Rogue Trader and Psyker from that one, but can't quite cough up €85,- for two minis I really want.
Your other option would be the Combat Arena game. It has all the heroes from Escalation. That's how I got them and then bought the gaming material on ebay (friend has the cultists).
That whole box was $40 if I recall, and much more palatable with a coupon. And if you have someone in the states toss the cardboard and clip the sprue to fit in a bubble mailer, shipping shouldn’t be tooo bad.
If you can’t get it through the loot group, let me know.
BaronIveagh wrote: Just remember, each squad of space marines only costs them $5 to $10 to make, total.
This is such a nonsensical statement. Of the MSRP 40% goes to the retailer, ~20% goes to the wholesaler and 40% goes to the manufacturer. Each of those groups have costs associated with wages, real estate and equipment. Even if the plastic and paper parts were less than $5 in materials to manufacture someone had to design them, someone had to make them, they had to be stored somewhere and then delivered from where they were made to where they would stay until someone bought them.
Now of course as GW for many is the retailer they buy from they get the whole MSRP, but they also get all the costs from each step as well. Yes, the prices are insane, but it’s also possible from all this that BSF wasn’t profitable (enough) to continue. I mean the 3D terrain I print is cheap, but only if you look at the filament and ignore the cost of the printer, the failed prints, the electricity and my own time.
You do know that other companies sell boxes with more plastic minis for a lot cheaper, right? Companies that are not vertically integrated can afford to make plastics and sell them cheaper than GW. That’s why there is a golden age for big box boardgames right now. Your entire post is built on distortions to defend an insane practice.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: You do know that other companies sell boxes with more plastic minis for a lot cheaper, right? Companies that are not vertically integrated can afford to make plastics and sell them cheaper than GW. That’s why there is a golden age for big box boardgames right now. Your entire post is built on distortions to defend an insane practice.
100% this. GW has absurdly strong infrastructure and volume compared to other miniatures companies. These prices have nothing to do with necessity and everything to do with getting the most from each unit that they can.
BrookM wrote: I hope Escalation sticks around for a while, really want the Rogue Trader and Psyker from that one, but can't quite cough up €85,- for two minis I really want.
Your other option would be the Combat Arena game. It has all the heroes from Escalation. That's how I got them and then bought the gaming material on ebay (friend has the cultists).
The Ork is for one of the WD scenarios, right? What mini did you use, I don't know the Ork line. Are you going to add the Ogryn brothers from WD as well?
BrookM wrote: Probably another preamble to rant about how recasting is good and all that stuff should be totes okay.
Generally speakign it's not, and most recasters suck ass.
But GW is hosing it's customers and use the molecule thin excuse that it's products compete with each other for limited customers and anything they put out is meant to be a gateway to becoming a 40k player and NOTHING ELSE.
Recall Black Industries?
Everything they ever made sold out while still on preorder, but GW decided to shut that side line down.
The Ork is for one of the WD scenarios, right? What mini did you use, I don't know the Ork line. Are you going to add the Ogryn brothers from WD as well?
I dont have too much interest in the orgryns, but im looking forward to the arco flagellant and im waiting for the Master of Possession and his possessed marines to be in a cheaper box
Statistx wrote: I also hope they "release" their minis at some point. There are a lot of good ones in there, but as other said, not THAT good to dish out that much money cause of added stuff I wouldn't need.
Also in the WH40K universe: is there any other single or coop game? Cause far as I know this was supposed to be that, but reading other posts here, I shouldn't really consider saving up for it.
Assuming you don't include RPGs, I believe you've got:
Space Crusade I think was full co-op?
Assassinorum Execution Force or some dumb name like that was actually a pretty enjoyable short full-co-op (or single player) game, that existed mostly as a way of selling old chaos kits and the 4 new assassins. I got the non-miniature parts for like $10 and my group enjoys it every now and then as a decently strategic filler/short game, but its content sure isn't worth anywhere close to the $100-ish it was sold for.
BSF is not something I'd invest in. If my group didn't play RPGs in the 40k setting, I'd have probably dropped my copy. If the core were its current price and the expansions were around 1/2-2/3 the prices they are, it would be fine as a light-weight dungeon crawl, but the pricing is offensive for a game that doesn't have a lot of replay value. I expect that once my group is done we won't be re-playing it for long time. The mechanics aren't cool enough to play it for them alone (ie there's little depth or challenge), and the story isn't so exciting that I'm impatient to find out what happens next.
Assuming you don't include RPGs, I believe you've got:
Space Crusade I think was full co-op?
Assassinorum Execution Force or some dumb name like that was actually a pretty enjoyable short full-co-op (or single player) game, that existed mostly as a way of selling old chaos kits and the 4 new assassins. I got the non-miniature parts for like $10 and my group enjoys it every now and then as a decently strategic filler/short game, but its content sure isn't worth anywhere close to the $100-ish it was sold for.
Correct, I didn't include RPGs as those also need a DM and I'm thinking more of having something to enjoy alone or at max with 1 or 2 friends from time to time.
I don't have a warhammer group (or any regular group for similar stuff) and don't really have the time or social energy after work to find a 'stranger group', so was looking for something close to WH40K.
Statistx wrote: Correct, I didn't include RPGs as those also need a DM and I'm thinking more of having something to enjoy alone or at max with 1 or 2 friends from time to time.
I don't have a warhammer group (or any regular group for similar stuff) and don't really have the time or social energy after work to find a 'stranger group', so was looking for something close to WH40K.
Unfortunately, GW's shallow-and-broad approach to rules design doesn't really lend itself to a rich AI experience, which I think is needed for a co-op or single-player experience with a lot of longevity. There are a number of good fantasy or modern games that fit that, but no SF that I've played that do, and frankly I would be shocked at this point if anything GW proper put out had that had deep AI.
Unfortunately, GW's shallow-and-broad approach to rules design doesn't really lend itself to a rich AI experience, which I think is needed for a co-op or single-player experience with a lot of longevity. There are a number of good fantasy or modern games that fit that, but no SF that I've played that do, and frankly I would be shocked at this point if anything GW proper put out had that had deep AI.
Just a reminded that Citadel Miniatures bought Games Workshop, that’s all you should need to know about where their priorities lie.
But in case you’re still not sure GW apparently talked to Adam Poots of Kingdom Death fame to see if they could capture some of KDM’s lightning in a box. Seems they didn’t want to put in the effort on the game side. Plastic minis and lots of paper products: check. Worthwhile game play...
Aeon, not complaining there, just stating the condition. I think they make decent if poorly balanced light-weight games with engaging settings, but that doesn't suit AI-style designs well.
Also, interesting- I hadn't heard about their interest in KDM. Do you remember where that's from?
The Ork is for one of the WD scenarios, right? What mini did you use, I don't know the Ork line. Are you going to add the Ogryn brothers from WD as well?
You use that particular Ork Flash Git from the boxed set.
At least in KDM the survivor can equip differents armor, weapons and there're kit for that. Not a bunch of monobuild characters shoved into a tiny sprue to save cost.
In Silver Tower, GW still got some decency to make each characters on their own sprue, which result in some of the best character models that they've ever made. The smaller character like the priest get a gryph hound because there're still some space left on the sprue.
I wouldn't mind the high price if the effort remain the same or better. But nah, price go up, effort go down.
Why don't the moaners just go infest a topic about one of these cheap plastic miniatures games they keep talking about rather than trying to turn a blackstone topic into GW price bashing ?
Albertorius wrote: Are people only allowed to post about a product as long as they are happy with it's company's practices, now?
That's rich.
It's more that negativity attracts more negativity and, esp on Dakka, its very easy to end up with a whole thread moaning. So suddenly the "primary" thread for talking about a specific game/interest is complaining. For those who come to the site who have an overall positive connection to the game it can be tiring to see continual complaints.
It's not that people are not capable nor willing to be critical, but that they'd rather not every major game/faction thread wound up a long series of complaints.
I suppose the BSF autopsy should be held here though since that discussion isn't worthy of a new thread. My view has already been expressed - looked very cool, too expensive though. If they make the minis available separately I'll be very pleased, depending on price. I don't see why they wouldn't but it's entirely possible.
JWBS wrote: I suppose the BSF autopsy should be held here though since that discussion isn't worthy of a new thread. My view has already been expressed - looked very cool, too expensive though. If they make the minis available separately I'll be very pleased, depending on price. I don't see why they wouldn't but it's entirely possible.
It would certainly be neat to see a rogue trader collection made from the combined sets of the three plastic rogue traders we have now
I thought the models were excellent - it was great that they explored the 40k universe bringing back traitor guard and the weirder elements of the Imperium. I was just a disappointed they didn't expand this out to the Xenos factions. Thats why I didn't buy in because both featured factions don't interest me, if there had been a significant Xenos expansion then maybe. I really hope they bring out those miniatures separately at some point - I'd like to be able to get them without the waste of unused gaming materials.
I really think 40 needs a smaller system or two like AoS has with Underworlds and Warcry, rather than stand alone box games like this. Spacehulk had extra rules to allow chaos marines, eldar, guard etc when it initially came out through WD articles-they should do something like that perhaps with "seasons" like the AOS games. Quest seems to be limited run games rather than an ongoing system at this stage, but at least they have used to bring new things out model wise [I can't comment on game play as I don't play presently so models interest me the most]. Hopefully they will create a system where we can see Eldar outcasts/corsairs, Tau explorer/scout teams etc..but I've said this before when discussing Killteam..
silverstu wrote: I thought the models were excellent - it was great that they explored the 40k universe bringing back traitor guard and the weirder elements of the Imperium. I was just a disappointed they didn't expand this out to the Xenos factions. Thats why I didn't buy in because both featured factions don't interest me, if there had been a significant Xenos expansion then maybe. I really hope they bring out those miniatures separately at some point - I'd like to be able to get them without the waste of unused gaming materials.
I really think 40 needs a smaller system or two like AoS has with Underworlds and Warcry, rather than stand alone box games like this. Spacehulk had extra rules to allow chaos marines, eldar, guard etc when it initially came out through WD articles-they should do something like that perhaps with "seasons" like the AOS games. Quest seems to be limited run games rather than an ongoing system at this stage, but at least they have used to bring new things out model wise [I can't comment on game play as I don't play presently so models interest me the most]. Hopefully they will create a system where we can see Eldar outcasts/corsairs, Tau explorer/scout teams etc..but I've said this before when discussing Killteam..
i guess this is the issue, it was probably the perfect stepping stone to add auxilia to tau, add corsairs and exodite options , heck use the SoA as a basis for an actual Lost and the damned dex.
i would like to see white dwarf adding rules to include existing modals to blackstone fortress, like for example a dark eldar hero vs the genestealer cult
There's a lot of people putting a downer on BSF here I'd be interested to know how well it sold overall. It got a two year run with more content than any previous modern WQ line. Plenty of new unique sculpts were created for the game too.
Maybe its finished because they've told the story they wanted to tell and want to try something different with the WQ brand? I don't think you can read too much else into them stopping production of it because all the WQ games released since silver tower have been limited run products.
On a related note, it's amazing with how many expansion booklets, novels, short stories etc. GW has produced for Blackstone Fortress, just how little background there is on the setting - for example, what does the Fortress actually look like from the outside?
Like a lot of things GW does, it all looks very swish from an overview, but there is very little in the way of depth.
Lord Damocles wrote: On a related note, it's amazing with how many expansion booklets, novels, short stories etc. GW has produced for Blackstone Fortress, just how little background there is on the setting - for example, what does the Fortress actually look like from the outside?
Like a lot of things GW does, it all looks very swish from an overview, but there is very little in the way of depth.
I don't remember how specific the first novel got but I feel like there was enough there to build a decent picture of the Fortress in your mind. The previous Blackstones were all identical designs and this one is surrounded by a massive ship graveyard. It's enough to give you the vibe.
Lord Damocles wrote: On a related note, it's amazing with how many expansion booklets, novels, short stories etc. GW has produced for Blackstone Fortress, just how little background there is on the setting - for example, what does the Fortress actually look like from the outside?
Like a lot of things GW does, it all looks very swish from an overview, but there is very little in the way of depth.
I don't remember how specific the first novel got but I feel like there was enough there to build a decent picture of the Fortress in your mind. The previous Blackstones were all identical designs and this one is surrounded by a massive ship graveyard. It's enough to give you the vibe.
The first novel gives no indication of appearance other than it being black, and seemingly far larger than the Gothic Blackstones (supported by the fact that there are internal chambers significantly larger than capital ships).
The second anthology book suggested that the Fortress has arms with triangular ends (like the Gothic Blackstone's), but any mention of four giant warp cannons is conspicuous by its absence. I
The first novel gives no indication of appearance other than it being black, and seemingly far larger than the Gothic Blackstones (supported by the fact that there are internal chambers significantly larger than capital ships).
The second anthology book suggested that the Fortress has arms with triangular ends (like the Gothic Blackstone's), but any mention of four giant warp cannons is conspicuous by its absence. I
The rulebooks clearly show that it basically looks like the other BSFs, and I think this is the first time an interior has been very fleshed out visually. One of Abnett's Night Lords books has them on Huron's BSF, which is a huge operation, a combined HQ and major port. I think it comes up again in some of the stories around 7th-8th transition.
The first novel gives no indication of appearance other than it being black, and seemingly far larger than the Gothic Blackstones (supported by the fact that there are internal chambers significantly larger than capital ships).
The second anthology book suggested that the Fortress has arms with triangular ends (like the Gothic Blackstone's), but any mention of four giant warp cannons is conspicuous by its absence. I
The rulebooks clearly show that it basically looks like the other BSFs, and I think this is the first time an interior has been very fleshed out visually. One of Abnett's Night Lords books has them on Huron's BSF, which is a huge operation, a combined HQ and major port. I think it comes up again in some of the stories around 7th-8th transition.
I think you mean Aaron Dembski-Bowden's Night Lords series
The first book has some really weird interior details. Like looping rooms, where you escape, only to end up back in the same place. Weird rivers that burn anything alive/conscious. And the fortress is able to attempt to "crush" things it doesn't like inside of itself.
I want to say the looping room was also really bright and white. It was a weird novel.
The first novel gives no indication of appearance other than it being black, and seemingly far larger than the Gothic Blackstones (supported by the fact that there are internal chambers significantly larger than capital ships).
The second anthology book suggested that the Fortress has arms with triangular ends (like the Gothic Blackstone's), but any mention of four giant warp cannons is conspicuous by its absence. I
The rulebooks clearly show that it basically looks like the other BSFs
Where?
There's the outline profile on the pg.6 map of the Background booklet, which is vaguely similar to the Gothic Blackstones, but lacking any detail; and there's the couple of pieces of artwork which show small portions of the exterior surface which get repeatedly reused (eg. Background pgs.4-5 & 8-9), which don't appear to match the depictions of the Gothic Blackstones (which lack multiple small pyramids on the exterior - compare to the relatively detailed overall depictions in Battlefleet Gothic Rulebook, pgs.127 & 145; Gathering Storm: Rise of the Primarch, pg.64; the actual BFG model; etc.)
silverstu wrote: I thought the models were excellent - it was great that they explored the 40k universe bringing back traitor guard and the weirder elements of the Imperium. I was just a disappointed they didn't expand this out to the Xenos factions. Thats why I didn't buy in because both featured factions don't interest me, if there had been a significant Xenos expansion then maybe. I really hope they bring out those miniatures separately at some point - I'd like to be able to get them without the waste of unused gaming materials.
I really think 40 needs a smaller system or two like AoS has with Underworlds and Warcry, rather than stand alone box games like this. Spacehulk had extra rules to allow chaos marines, eldar, guard etc when it initially came out through WD articles-they should do something like that perhaps with "seasons" like the AOS games. Quest seems to be limited run games rather than an ongoing system at this stage, but at least they have used to bring new things out model wise [I can't comment on game play as I don't play presently so models interest me the most]. Hopefully they will create a system where we can see Eldar outcasts/corsairs, Tau explorer/scout teams etc..but I've said this before when discussing Killteam..
Well, you need a main opponent, in this case the Chaos guys. The drones were a nice feature and an option to change the main threat as they're part of the fortress. The Ur-Ghuls... I don't know.
We had Space Crusade where you could find rooms full of Orks, Genestealers and Chaos Space Marines - that was not exactly what I define as consistent or atmospheric. Advanced Space Crusade was a different beast - main opponent, different forces.
Space Hulk had some additional rules (don't remember Eldar and Chaos Space Marines if you don't count the Traitor Terminators that were just... Terminators... vs Terminators), but they were mostly rubbish. Space Hulk isn't the kind of game to add variety (I remember easily smashing power-armoured Marines with Genestealers and loosing a Captain and a Terminator with heavy weapon to a single hybrid with lasgun...).
Why do you need a main threat? That would dramatically limit the number of people the game would appeal to as well as the options for further story development. I thought that was the whole point of the setting, that the BSF could have anything lurking within it.
silverstu wrote: I thought the models were excellent - it was great that they explored the 40k universe bringing back traitor guard and the weirder elements of the Imperium. I was just a disappointed they didn't expand this out to the Xenos factions. Thats why I didn't buy in because both featured factions don't interest me, if there had been a significant Xenos expansion then maybe. I really hope they bring out those miniatures separately at some point - I'd like to be able to get them without the waste of unused gaming materials.
I really think 40 needs a smaller system or two like AoS has with Underworlds and Warcry, rather than stand alone box games like this. Spacehulk had extra rules to allow chaos marines, eldar, guard etc when it initially came out through WD articles-they should do something like that perhaps with "seasons" like the AOS games. Quest seems to be limited run games rather than an ongoing system at this stage, but at least they have used to bring new things out model wise [I can't comment on game play as I don't play presently so models interest me the most]. Hopefully they will create a system where we can see Eldar outcasts/corsairs, Tau explorer/scout teams etc..but I've said this before when discussing Killteam..
Well, you need a main opponent, in this case the Chaos guys. The drones were a nice feature and an option to change the main threat as they're part of the fortress. The Ur-Ghuls... I don't know.
You don't need a fixed main opponent, though. You can sell an interesting variety of threats, and shuffle in a small sub-deck representing any 'main threat' and his/her/its henchmen.
Ur ghuls are perfect for a filler room that you explore while working your way to any particular game's climax.
Roll a d6, this sessions threat is:
1) Obsidian Mallet and his Chaos Marines
2) Looterious Rex, Orc warboss and his band of mechs stripping the place for parts.
3) Broodlord Bob and his babies, stowaway genestealers
4) Champion Knockoffia, Wych succubus and retinue, looking for exciting new slaves
5) Daemon Prince Infestio, and his small warp incursion
6) Arnolhd beBack, Necron lord and a stasis crypt of minions.
Put in 4-6 cards for them, and a dozen or so cards for 'typical BSF threats' and you've got a game.
Alternately, flip 1 'threat' card for every 2 'fortress' cards that the party wins against, if you want more structure (and a reasonable end point)
The thing is, BSF was created as a campaign, not a new generic dungeon crawler game like the first WHQ as a replacement of HeroQuest/Advanced HeroQuest. Of course, it could have been better, but well.
Would I like a generic dungeon crawler game for 40k with new rules, different opponents, new characters and ongoing support. Hell, yes. But it was obvious from the start that BSF was nothing like that.
Lord Damocles wrote: On a related note, it's amazing with how many expansion booklets, novels, short stories etc. GW has produced for Blackstone Fortress, just how little background there is on the setting - for example, what does the Fortress actually look like from the outside?
Like a lot of things GW does, it all looks very swish from an overview, but there is very little in the way of depth.
Does not one remember BFG? They had a damn mini for them..
Dryaktylus wrote: The thing is, BSF was created as a campaign, not a new generic dungeon crawler game like the first WHQ as a replacement of HeroQuest/Advanced HeroQuest. Of course, it could have been better, but well.
Would I like a generic dungeon crawler game for 40k with new rules, different opponents, new characters and ongoing support. Hell, yes. But it was obvious from the start that BSF was nothing like that.
I'm not clear how that was 'obvious' at any point, let alone from the start. The Ambull doesn't support that, nor do the random bits and bobs that are sort of but not really related to the the main set (the death guard and plague zombies, the actual cult which isn't renegade guardsmen?)
You fought through a series of random encounters, got an artifact at the end, and could go back to town at various points. Seems like a generic dungeon crawler to me.
Lord Damocles wrote: On a related note, it's amazing with how many expansion booklets, novels, short stories etc. GW has produced for Blackstone Fortress, just how little background there is on the setting - for example, what does the Fortress actually look like from the outside?
Like a lot of things GW does, it all looks very swish from an overview, but there is very little in the way of depth.
Does not one remember BFG? They had a damn mini for them..
Yeah, I think Damocles knows about these but is being really specific for some reason (? There may be something I'm missing, but the WHQ:BSF depiction seems to be, with some artistic liberty, not fundamentally different than a regular BSF other than how being active has developed some more lore.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: It’s a hefty old box of stuff, with a divider you’re not to remove until the game says to do so....
I had to though. Given that’s where the Sentinel’s bases were.
Didn't quite know what you meant by this, but having now just opened my copy, yeah, there's a whole other expansion rule booklet and sets of cards that are "hidden" inside the box for later use (and the mini bases!). Wasn't expecting that.
Not sure of points, but the whole gang (big and little drones in a blob) make for a pretty beefy supplement to shooting, and pretty effectively anti-everything except hordes (which the rest of whichever army they're attached to can surely solve)
At the very least they make for a decent 'distraction carnifex' role, where they can just keep blowing holes in things until they're dealt with.
They've been on the community site, but not sure how well they'd work in regular games given the keyword issues - you're spending a lot of CP getting them as unaligned doesn't easily fit into a detachment. So Open Play really - or Kill Team perhaps, where they would be proper scary.
For that the big ones are:
With the basic drones being an Intercessor with LD10 and a 4+ save, with this gun.
Yeah, I saw the partial rules, but points can be pretty influential. Also, I feel like it puts a giant bulls eye on those drones that are able to hit way above their class with the big drones' buffs.
I wouldn't mind seeing an actual army made up of the drones. If the big drones were Elite, and the small ones troops (not limited to one unit), then add in a "swarm" of smaller drones for Fast Attack and a larger HQ drone.
cuda1179 wrote: I wouldn't mind seeing an actual army made up of the drones. If the big drones were Elite, and the small ones troops (not limited to one unit), then add in a "swarm" of smaller drones for Fast Attack and a larger HQ drone.
This is how you get new Xenos armies like Necrons. Do you want new xenos armies, heretic?
From the reviews of those who actually played it, it does sound like the narrative (at least from the base set and two main expansions) is pretty coherent and makes sense - that's clearly what they were aiming for to tell a specific story (with a few side-stories like the Ambull) about a specific thing.
I like that, I don't need a system that caters for everything - I couldn't get into Shadows of Brimstone but that does that fairly well.
I'd rather get a new game with similar core mechanics, but tweaked to suit a new environment with new baddies. Rather than endless expansions for this. Especially as the core sets are almost always the best value for money.
Does not one remember BFG? They had a damn mini for them..
Give n that I directly referenced it just a couple of posts above yours, yes I probably remember it.
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spiralingcadaver wrote: Yeah, I think Damocles knows about these but is being really specific for some reason (? There may be something I'm missing, but the WHQ:BSF depiction seems to be, with some artistic liberty, not fundamentally different than a regular BSF other than how being active has developed some more lore.
But the depiction/description of the new Fortress isn't particularly in line with the Gothic Blackstone's! (Other than being black and maybe having arms).
Blackstone 7 appears to be significantly larger, has a different exterior surface, and isn't described as having the same primary armaments. We can't even say that they're the same overall shape.
People seem to have an assumption that Blackstone 7 must look the same as the previous six because they're all referred to as Blackstone Fortresses, but the actual text/image sources we have offer very little support for this.
Its not a minor point that a physical description of the setting for the game is conspicuous by its absence.
Especially when almost all characters involved in the setting should have relatively easy access to that information.
Deano, yes, it's a complete story, and while I think it's a cop-out to choose practically a "what-if" setting and then make it almost all just populated by chaos goons, I'd be okay with that except that they charge a ton for each of those expansions and wonder, do they think we're hooked on the story so they can jack up the price? Personally, this is one of the worst experiences I've had with GW cynical behavior in a long time, and I wouldn't buy a sister title.
Damocles, seriously, the little profile illustration looks like a closer update from the old BFG illustrations than Primaris does to normal marines or when they did those awkward Crimson Fist updates on RT illustrations, enough that at a glance it immediately registered as referencing the original. Over the ~20 years since they came up in BSF, illustrators and writers have had their own takes on it, in a setting known for kinda poor consistency and a bit of artistic freedom, by a company with what feels like a whole forum devoted to people who are dissatisfied with their attention to rules details.
The reason (I'm assuming) Baronlveagh expressed confusion is because the question is bizarre. You (a given player) are in a shape-changey magic space pyramid labyrinth and spooky gak happens to you and your friends who might not be your friends (except there's no semi-coop in the game except glory hogging)! It's ~mysterious~ (in wavy halloween font). You (the specific person) are looking for conspiracy clues in a kind of lazy board game.
I guess there's a location element to it. In the UK the expansions have been broadly in line with what you'd pay for similar board game expansions elsewhere but:
1) We get GW stuff cheaper than in the US
2) We pay more for other board games than in the US
Someone mentioned Shadows of Brimstone earlier, the smaller BSF expansions cost as much as a deluxe enemy pack or mission pack for Brimstone (£30-£40)
The two larger expansions were less than the deluxe Other Worlds for Brimstone. (~£55 vs ~£65)
I personally felt the small expansions were a bit light on actual gameplay content but the larger ones were a decent amount of stuff for the price.
The U.K. prices being inclusive of 20% VAT while North American prices are exclusive of sales tax doesn’t help the pricing disparity. I loved BSF and would have happily gobbled up every expansion but the pricing was a joke. The Ambull compared so poorly with the Necromunda Ambots (two models at a lower price) that I couldn’t justify any of it. I switched all my focus to Underworlds and had a blast (although GW is now trying their best to reduce that game’s value by jacking the starter set up by 25% and the new warbands up by 28.5%)
Damocles, seriously, the little profile illustration looks like a closer update from the old BFG illustrations than Primaris does to normal marines or when they did those awkward Crimson Fist updates on RT illustrations, enough that at a glance it immediately registered as referencing the original. Over the ~20 years since they came up in BSF, illustrators and writers have had their own takes on it, in a setting known for kinda poor consistency and a bit of artistic freedom, by a company with what feels like a whole forum devoted to people who are dissatisfied with their attention to rules details.
So when you claimed, 'The rulebooks clearly show that it basically looks like the other BSFs', you actually were referring to the line-silhouette which is 14mm across (yeah I measured it).
I mean, I'm not so caught up on the description being poor to the point of ambiguity; but you were the one making the claim that there wasn't a question here...
spiralingcadaver wrote: The reason (I'm assuming) Baronlveagh expressed confusion is because the question is bizarre. You (a given player) are in a shape-changey magic space pyramid labyrinth and spooky gak happens to you and your friends who might not be your friends (except there's no semi-coop in the game except glory hogging)! It's ~mysterious~ (in wavy halloween font). You (the specific person) are looking for conspiracy clues in a kind of lazy board game.
Yes - it's kind of lazy! That was my claim! And that's not ok!
It being lazy is a problem. Trying to justify that; either by saying it's supposed to be lazy; or just claiming that problems don't exist because tiny marks on a map look a bit like the profile of something else which is explicitly described differently (size/exterior); serves nobody.
If a new player comes to a game (and then buys into the 'extended universe' fiction for that game), they presumably want to know something about where they are. Even if there was something which said 'the new Blackstone is exactly like the Gothic Blackstones', somebody who doesn't know what a Blackstone Fortress actually looks like is still out of luck.
In the same way as someone playing D&D presumably want's to know more about their environs than 'It's a dungeon. Like a castle or something. And monsters. What more do you want!?'
And for somebody who is already familiar with the broader setting, just having the background be 'Spooky mysterious wOoO' is deeply unsatisfying.
If Blackstone 7 is the same as the Gothic Fortresses, is in the active or dormant configuration? Could it be potentially be controlled by the Eye of Night/Hand of Darkness? How come its so difficult to navigate if its essentially just eight arms? How is the interior so much larger than the exterior? Who cares?! It's a mystery - don't bother to think about it!
It's not like GW don't already have multiple art assets of Blackstones which they could have copy-pasted into one of the booklets which come with the game if it's supposed to be the same as the Gothic Blackstones... so it's not as though it would even have taken any extra effort.
Dude, I don't remember where it is. There've been a lot of pictures of it and some of them are big, certainly bigger than a half-inch. It takes like 10 seconds to image search it, and the game is already going out of production. GW often leaves gak open-ended and frankly when it doesn't come to rules I think it's a fine approach.
You'veclearly got way more invested in this than I do. I don't care, so I'm not going to get any further into this nit-picking about an average board game.
H.B.M.C. wrote: If you want them, get them. And quick. And start with the most recent one.
If it's the last expansion in a product line, it means it'll have the least reprints (if any), meaning it'll be the first to run out.
That was just over a month ago. Looks like only the core game, Escalation and Ascension are still available (well, the former two currently out of stock, but at least still listed) alongside the 2019 Annual and Cultists figure-only set. No sign of the others on the webstore anymore.
I hope everyone who wanted a Zoat got theirs already, he certainly wasn't long for this world...
I remain quietly hopeful we’ll see periodic availability for BSF. I only need the Abominable Intelligence cards, and extra baddies myself, but I want fellow completist weirdos to have their non eBay opportunities.
The Zoats gone (although still on ebay, so I'm tempted to finally get one), and the renegade guardsmen box has been gone for ages. Of all the models to go OOP, that's the one that bugs me the most. They're great models, and unlike the zoat, chaos guardsmen could easily fit into a 40k army, at least proxied as cultist if nothing else
Given their cross over in white dwarf articles, its possible Kill Team could relaunch in a new form with elements incorporated from Blackstone Fortress. This would allow it to take pages out of Warcry's book, such as a setting, beasts and game specific models.
And both games seem to be coming to a close...hmmm.
Considering the size and scope of a BSF, I still think it would make a great setting for future games.
I'm honestly surprised we haven't got a 40k equivalent to Underworlds yet. It'd be a good excuse to make random and obscure models from the 40k universe, and all they'd need are some cards and stats basically.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: Considering the size and scope of a BSF, I still think it would make a great setting for future games.
I'm honestly surprised we haven't got a 40k equivalent to Underworlds yet. It'd be a good excuse to make random and obscure models from the 40k universe, and all they'd need are some cards and stats basically.
Until the third expansion is three easy build Plague Marines....
You're right though. Ex IG preacher, Arbites Canid handler and so on.
Just asked GW customer services regarding the availability of Blackstone Fortress, and confirmed that they are indeed making more copies of the core game.
They hope to have them ready before Christmas but haven't been given a specific date. I forgot to ask about it, but I would assume that would be the case for the Escalation expansion as well.
So with that confirmed, I've decided to take the plunge and join you all. For the moment I'm only interested in the core game, dreaded ambull and the 2019 annual. Not sure if I will go with further expansions( should they become available ) and will probably save the cash for whatever the follow up Quest game will be.
With things being quiet right now I would venture a flamboyant purchase of BSF: Ascension but apparently it requires Escalation. If that requirement is only for the sake of an odd mission I'd probably get it, but otherwise I'm not prepared to fork out for two £65 expansions, even with 20% discount.
While Ascension is the final expansion, I'm wondering if they will drop a 2020 annual that features exclusive necron content. The Blackstone material has been mentioned quite a bit of late in necron related stuff and I guess Necron Overlords will go full on Disney to protect their property! A Royal Warden might take some warriors & scarabs to give any squaters the boot...
Lord Damocles wrote: On a related note, it's amazing with how many expansion booklets, novels, short stories etc. GW has produced for Blackstone Fortress, just how little background there is on the setting - for example, what does the Fortress actually look like from the outside?
Like a lot of things GW does, it all looks very swish from an overview, but there is very little in the way of depth.
In the latest blackstone fortress novel, Ascension, at the end of chapter 9, there is more descriptions for the space fortress. Its described to be as big as a small planet and is warp capable. Also It is only half emerged in real space, making it only the tip of the iceberg, which i found interesting. People on Precipice look down from orbit and see that the blackstone fortress is so massive that they can't comprehend its true shape. I imagine they see it as a flat black surface . Other features include its massive gravity well that precipice uses as artificial gravity and the space debris that orbit the fortress
I'm enjoying the novels. It is a good stand alone series. I notice that the Ascension book assumes the reader is familiar with the expansions. Its a shame the robot only has 2 short stories. He is the best character. No contest
A copy of Deadly Alliance was in stock today on Wayland Games so I snapped it up for £30.
Not sure how far I can use the contents with the core game itself without Escalation, but the Zoat model will at least see use in other games such as Kill Team, 40K and Rogue Trader.
I liked the novel and all the little short stories. Despite never getting round to the game.
Regret not getting it in some ways (though I truly wished I had bought that Kill Team box with the Gellerpox).
But probably wouldn’t get round to playing anyway..
Yes, sadly Rogue Trader has now disappeared from the GW site. It looked like the best expansion for Kill Team but the Nurgle models were an immediate turn off, even though well sculpted.
Thats the only problem with this hobby; it takes a bit of hard graft and games & grey models will tend to sit on the shelf, rarely venturing outside of their boxes...but we stare at them in adoration...
I was looking into getting Escalation as a present to myself and it's a shame to see it's out of stock everywhere.
Is this something GW dropped the ball on or was this the expected run time for the expansion sets of BSF? I'm feeling sad I didn't jump on these sets sooner.
Yup, it's the speed they've disappeared I'm disappointed in. I was expecting their lifespan on the shelves to be a tad longer in all honesty, even when Ascension was the last set.
It's a tough one especially as Ascension needs Escalation to be playable if I'm reading the previous page correctly.
Contacted GW customer services and they are trying to reprint the base game ready this side of Christmas but have no specific date. I would assume that would include Escalation as well, as its a requirement for Ascension and probably a 2020 annual if one appears.
Just a thought; Wrath of the Daemon Kin seems to have units from Escalation but the annual doesn't specifiy Escalation as a requirement. Any confirmation on this?
They're still printing BSF articles in WD (there was one in the September issue), so if we're lucky there's another annual on the way.
Tyranid Horde wrote: Yup, it's the speed they've disappeared I'm disappointed in. I was expecting their lifespan on the shelves to be a tad longer in all honesty, even when Ascension was the last set.
You're 100% right there. I don't think anyone expected it to vanish as quickly as it did.
I know that, at the time, I said that Ascension would probably be the hardest expansion to get a hold of given that it's the last of the line and therefore would receive no reprints (see how hard it is to get the last Black Crusade splat book, or the last Dark Heresy splat book), but no where in my imagination did I expect to see people selling Traitor Command and things like that on eBay for stupid prices because of how quickly everyone snapped up the last few copies.
My copy of BSF came with an Initiative deck that's in German for some reason, and GW said they couldn't replace it because they have nothing to replace it with. Thankfully it's just the Initiative deck, which is mostly picture driven. If it had been any other component I might not have much luck playing the game.
I'm also lucky that during May/June/July the place I usually get GW stuff from was having raffles for the Catachan Colonel, so for the 3 months the comp was active I bought all the BSF expansions (which I'd held off on getting) as they were an easy way to get entries into the raffle. If I'd waited even two months after that I wouldn't've been able to get them.
Tyranid Horde wrote: I was looking into getting Escalation as a present to myself and it's a shame to see it's out of stock everywhere.
Is this something GW dropped the ball on or was this the expected run time for the expansion sets of BSF? I'm feeling sad I didn't jump on these sets sooner.
It's just my gut feeling, and if there was any hard evidence anywhere proving or disproving it I'd love to see it, but I think the price of the expansions drove away alot of people who might have been interested and pretty quickly resulted in each production run for each expansions being smaller than the one before it.
But GW being GW had already decided the price point for the expansions, and nothing was going to change it.
It's not really just BSF though, GW is having trouble keeping a lot of things in stock due to the pandemic. I don't imagine it was their intent to have things disappear from shelves so quickly.
Zethnar wrote: It's not really just BSF though, GW is having trouble keeping a lot of things in stock due to the pandemic. I don't imagine it was their intent to have things disappear from shelves so quickly.
This isn't a stock thing though. This is the game going out of production as its life cycle is over.
Wasn't this obvious right from the start that it would end up the same way Warhammer Quest ended? You either buy everything as soon as it comes out or fish ebay later.
CragHack wrote: Wasn't this obvious right from the start that it would end up the same way Warhammer Quest ended? You either buy everything as soon as it comes out or fish ebay later.
I think its a combination of the speed and the lack of a heads-up from GW when the stock is getting near empty. Considering that I'm sure a few of those kits have come in and out of stock. Plus some of the newer kits have sold out far faster than some of the older ones. Basically its a very random situation and its very hard to guess at what you can get when. Plus for those of us not buying into the game but wanting the models there's the hope that some might get their own pack release or its just hard to justify a model on its own when we get bombarded with regular army models we also want.
I bought the Escalation box recently just to get the cool cultist models for my Black Legion army (I do play BSF occasionally, but I never bothered with the other expansions). Looks like I got one of the very last copies out there. I'm debating selling the rest of the box on eBay, since people who just want to play the game can easily replace the cultists with other models.
At this point, I wouldn't be at all surprised if it turned out the person at GW who decides the size of production runs also had a profitable little sideline as an eBay scalper.
Not making a prediction / claim of fact, just that I would not be surprised.
Duskweaver wrote: At this point, I wouldn't be at all surprised if it turned out the person at GW who decides the size of production runs also had a profitable little sideline as an eBay scalper.
Not making a prediction / claim of fact, just that I would not be surprised.
It is unlikely to be a single person who makes decisions on production run sizes.
I bought into it over lockdown with a couple of the expansions. However I've never actually got to play it with our group so don't know if the others would have been "worth" buying.
I guess now I'll never know. Reprinting the ones I don't have (Ambull, Commisar, Zoat) doesn't seem likely, and I'm not paying inflated eBay prices.
At this point, I wouldn't be at all surprised if it turned out the person at GW who decides the size of production runs also had a profitable little sideline as an eBay scalper.
With a company as profit-driven as Games Workshop, that would be a fantastic way of putting one's nuts on the chopping block.
Seen it happen in retail a few times and has always resulted in immediate dismissal. In all cases it been by individuals who were already earning a nice income and were too greedy to notice those who were taking notes...
Tyranid Horde wrote: I was looking into getting Escalation as a present to myself and it's a shame to see it's out of stock everywhere.
Is this something GW dropped the ball on or was this the expected run time for the expansion sets of BSF? I'm feeling sad I didn't jump on these sets sooner.
It's just my gut feeling, and if there was any hard evidence anywhere proving or disproving it I'd love to see it, but I think the price of the expansions drove away alot of people who might have been interested and pretty quickly resulted in each production run for each expansions being smaller than the one before it.
But GW being GW had already decided the price point for the expansions, and nothing was going to change it.
I feel like your probably almost right. I think the cost of the expansions was high enough that they went from an immediate "buy now" to "I want that but I'll wait until I'm ready to play it" - the demand still seems to be there based on Ebay prices, but I think they didn't sell that well in the initial rush which made GW think the demand was not there.
The core game is now back in stock on the GW site, and hopefully some of the expansions to follow. With a bit of luck, Wayland will be restocked shortly...
For those who have Ascension, what exactly does it require from Escalation? If its components that are easily substituted, I might pick it up while its still available.
As far as I can tell the Wrath of the Daemonkin section of the 2019 annual only requires the Firebrand, cultists and only three tiles from Escalation. Doesn't seem to be a problem there...
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: I just need that accursed card pack. And probably this year’s annual (assuming there is one)
I reckon they will do a new annual, but this time round include character cards like the Solitaire, Astroth and the Ogryn bothers. That popped up as a main critisim on the youtube channels so it might make them reconsider...
With no new WHQ game in sight, its a simple product they can whip together.
Must say, I haven't got the actual game yet but love flicking through the annual. Very well presented and the only things I would have added are the character cards and the rules for running Kill Team games within the fortress. Glad I picked up the 2018 december issue as I put the Traitor's Fane card in the Ambull box for safe keeping...
I expected something like this, even though they wrote:
