How do you know? Does Coldstar give you +1 T and a 2+ armor save? What if it does? Then would they serve two different purposes? Such a change would be listed on the armor wargear page. It would make sense, as that would keep a commander from being instagibbed by failing a grounding roll.

Additionally, since there is no bits differentiation for a Iridium suit, but there is for a Coldstar, why would GW let you keep the Iridium when they can have you buy another Commander suit to make a Coldstar?

Sooooo....I am assuming these leaks are from a WD for tomorrow? So does that mean the Codex/Commander will be up for pre-order too? Idk how WD works with its content and release dates.

vitae_drinker wrote:
How do you know? Does Coldstar give you +1 T and a 2+ armor save? What if it does? Then would they serve two different purposes? Such a change would be listed on the armor wargear page. It would make sense, as that would keep a commander from being instagibbed by failing a grounding roll.

Additionally, since there is no bits differentiation for a Iridium suit, but there is for a Coldstar, why would GW let you keep the Iridium when they can have you buy another Commander suit to make a Coldstar?

How do you know? From the information we have currently there is nothing to suggest it does so.

And on the second point, it's not a whole new suit, it's extra iridium armour plating on top.

The Iridium though is simply a different coating of armor/material. Its otherwise the same suit more or less.

The Coldstar is a XV8 with extensive mobility enhancements and its shows on its physical model.

Iridium would be like giving higher quality body armor to an important field commander. Coldstar is a completely different style of commander. Iridium may also be heavier we don't know. So it couldn't be used on something meant to fly.

I never claimed to know. I'm merely positing a guess. Frankly, I think there are some massive changes coming, and unless the formations are nice, I think Tau are taking a major nerfing.

vitae_drinker wrote:
I never claimed to know. I'm merely positing a guess. Frankly, I think there are some massive changes coming, and unless the formations are nice, I think Tau are taking a major nerfing.

I got that bad feeling as well.

Edit
I got a feeling it will be an overnerf. As opposed to a sensible one.

vitae_drinker wrote:
I think Tau are taking a major nerfing.

So GW are giving them an absolute ton of new kits. With 1/3 of them being remodels of existing kits and you think they are going to nerf them?

Nerfing? I don't think so. From what we've seen so far it seems that were probably going to stay at the same sort of medium-ish power level. We might go down a bit, but at the same time we might go up.

Then again, I am generally overly optimistic about most things, so I could be wrong.

vitae_drinker wrote:
I think there are some massive changes coming, and unless the formations are nice, I think Tau are taking a major nerfing.

Well, so far so good, but everything looks the same for me. Some extra options slapped on the existing range, some new stuff, then copypaste for the Copypaste God. At this point, I will be surprised if anything changes.

vitae_drinker wrote:
I never claimed to know. I'm merely positing a guess. Frankly, I think there are some massive changes coming, and unless the formations are nice, I think Tau are taking a major nerfing.

You think they are taking a "massive nerfing" based on the rules for four entirely new units?

Major nerfing, thank you.

And not so much because they're going to make Tau worse, per se. Merely that with the most recent codices released (Necrons forward, basically) have had such a power boost that I don't the believe the Tau will keep up. Unless, as I said, the formations are better than I'm predicting.

Technically, with the rules as written a Coldstar Commander can take signature systems. I don't think that was intended, but that's how the rules are worded. I would look at anyone who actually brought that to the table without an FAQ explicitly allowing it as a dirty cheesemonger though.

You could technically join it to Vespids without anybody's mobility being hampered, I guess.

I mean, it couldn't swoop, but given that swooping is the last thing you'd want it to do 90% of the time that's not a big loss.

Caederes wrote:

vitae_drinker wrote:
I never claimed to know. I'm merely positing a guess. Frankly, I think there are some massive changes coming, and unless the formations are nice, I think Tau are taking a major nerfing.

You think they are taking a "massive nerfing" based on the rules for four entirely new units?

It's pretty funny yeah. People have absolutely no clue what the Tau army will look like, but they've already decided Tau are taking a nerfing.

It's the little things that make a codex overpowered, and they're usually not known in advance. All it takes is two spammable units to be seriously undercosted and the army is competitive. For Eldar all it took was a unit being allowed heavy weapons on every model and for Eldar D to become real D. That kind of stuff has very little to do with GW's previews.

Lord Ruby34 wrote:
Technically, with the rules as written a Coldstar Commander can take signature systems.

No. As written he can not take signature systems as he can only take the Coldstar instead of choosing from the first three options.

But none the less, I'm just happy for a new commander kit to be coming out. And cold start could be amusing. A tau flying circus list...

 Therion wrote:

Caederes wrote:

vitae_drinker wrote:
I never claimed to know. I'm merely positing a guess. Frankly, I think there are some massive changes coming, and unless the formations are nice, I think Tau are taking a major nerfing.

You think they are taking a "massive nerfing" based on the rules for four entirely new units?

It's pretty funny yeah. People have absolutely no clue what the Tau army will look like, but they've already decided Tau are taking a nerfing.

It's the little things that make a codex overpowered, and they're usually not known in advance. All it takes is two spammable units to be seriously undercosted and the army is competitive. For Eldar all it took was a unit being allowed heavy weapons on every model and for Eldar D to become real D. That kind of stuff has very little to do with GW's previews.

It's astonishing how people on here overlook most of what you say, but only pick and choose the one little bit they want to quote.

As I said, unless the formations are decent, Tau will not be as well performing as they were in the past (pre-Necron).

Remember, up until Necrons released Tau were a top tier list. Now they're middle third. Maybe not Ork bad, but still.

vitae_drinker wrote:

 Therion wrote:

Caederes wrote:

vitae_drinker wrote:
I never claimed to know. I'm merely positing a guess. Frankly, I think there are some massive changes coming, and unless the formations are nice, I think Tau are taking a major nerfing.

You think they are taking a "massive nerfing" based on the rules for four entirely new units?

It's pretty funny yeah. People have absolutely no clue what the Tau army will look like, but they've already decided Tau are taking a nerfing.

It's the little things that make a codex overpowered, and they're usually not known in advance. All it takes is two spammable units to be seriously undercosted and the army is competitive. For Eldar all it took was a unit being allowed heavy weapons on every model and for Eldar D to become real D. That kind of stuff has very little to do with GW's previews.

It's astonishing how people on here overlook most of what you say, but only pick and choose the one little bit they want to quote.

As I said, unless the formations are decent, Tau will not be as well performing as they were in the past (pre-Necron).

Remember, up until Necrons released Tau were a top tier list. Now they're middle third. Maybe not Ork bad, but still.

Tau were top tier in part due to the 6th edition rules, not the 7th edition codices. Remember the O'Vesa-star? Yea, that ended with 7th core rules. This codex is by no means nerfed by what we know. Lighten up and wait to judge until after you have read the codex.

The rules are posted on the Cold Star suit. As written they can currently take signature Systems as that is part of the basic commanders gear allowance. They only limit the suit to two support systems.

Nope. Instead, they take the Coldstar. It's pretty clear.

Fella's take this one to YMDC.

Just because Tau arent getting all rail rifles are Str D doesnt mean theyre getting a nerf.

Nothing we have seen shows theyve been nerfed to me. Inconvenience, yes, with the base size increases but not a nerf.

People always cry nerfed when the codex isnt instantly #1.

 Ghaz wrote:

Lord Ruby34 wrote:
Technically, with the rules as written a Coldstar Commander can take signature systems.

No. As written he can not take signature systems as he can only take the Coldstar instead of choosing from the first three options.

I have no doubt that that was the intention. However, nothing about the coldstar description disallows signature systems except by implication.

changemod wrote:
You could technically join it to Vespids without anybody's mobility being hampered, I guess.

I mean, it couldn't swoop, but given that swooping is the last thing you'd want it to do 90% of the time that's not a big loss.

Except that Coldstar is type Flying Monstrous Creature (Character), not (Independent Character), so he can't join anyone.

Independent Character is a special rule, not a unit type.

 Therion wrote:


It's the little things that make a codex overpowered, and they're usually not known in advance..

Having seen the process, you have no idea how RIGHT that is.

You THINK you can predict ALL of the possibilities of a million fractional rules with endless applications, interpretations of definitions, and nerd brains to pick it all a part....and it ends up being the things you never even noticed because of all the elephants in the room....

It's the cockroaches that get ya in the end.

vitae_drinker wrote:
How do you know? Does Coldstar give you +1 T and a 2+ armor save? What if it does? Then would they serve two different purposes? Such a change would be listed on the armor wargear page. It would make sense, as that would keep a commander from being instagibbed by failing a grounding roll.

Additionally, since there is no bits differentiation for a Iridium suit, but there is for a Coldstar, why would GW let you keep the Iridium when they can have you buy another Commander suit to make a Coldstar?

That's an excellant point, and why I'm confused as to how people can judge him already.

It is impossible to know what the Coldstar gives you until the wargear pages are leaked(and the weapon stats).

For example, Space Wolf Codex says If the Wolf Lord doesn't take Terminator Armor he can take a Thunderwolf Mount for 50 points. It doesn't mention that this also gives him *Rending *+1 S and T *More movement etc. That's all in the wargear.

 derling wrote:

 Therion wrote:


It's the little things that make a codex overpowered, and they're usually not known in advance..

Having seen the process, you have no idea how RIGHT that is.

You THINK you can predict ALL of the possibilities of a million fractional rules with endless applications, interpretations of definitions, and nerd brains to pick it all a part....and it ends up being the things you never even noticed because of all the elephants in the room....

It's the cockroaches that get ya in the end.

Well, except that most of the 7e codices have had some very straightforward borked stuff. Like people saying that the only decent unit in Tyranids would be Flyrants. Or Wraiths getting +1T and a formation to get RP. Or Wraithknights... Wraithknights. Or the Battle Company getting all their free stuff.

Not to say that the Tau book won't be subtle, but a lot of the more recent won't haven't exactly been.

Sorry to say I haven't kept up to much on these developments. Any word on how this affects Farsight/all battlesuit armies?

Lord Ruby34 wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

Lord Ruby34 wrote:
Technically, with the rules as written a Coldstar Commander can take signature systems.

No. As written he can not take signature systems as he can only take the Coldstar instead of choosing from the first three options.

I have no doubt that that was the intention. However, nothing about the coldstar description disallows signature systems except by implication.

The wording is quite clear. You take the Coldstar instead of the first three options. No 'implication' as that is what it clearly says.

 Ghaz wrote:

Lord Ruby34 wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

Lord Ruby34 wrote:
Technically, with the rules as written a Coldstar Commander can take signature systems.

No. As written he can not take signature systems as he can only take the Coldstar instead of choosing from the first three options.

I have no doubt that that was the intention. However, nothing about the coldstar description disallows signature systems except by implication.

The wording is quite clear. You take the Coldstar instead of the first three options. No 'implication' as that is what it clearly says.

The exact wording of the Coldstar suit "A Commander may instead replace its Crisis Battlesuit with an XV86 Coldstar Battlesuit, equipped with a high output burst cannon and missile pod." The next line "A commander in an XV86 Coldstar Battlesuit may take up to two items from the support systems list and two drones from the drones list."

With the text as written the only thing the CSS replaces is the Crisis Suit. No where in the text does it make any mention of being disallowed to take signature systems. I don't think this was the intent of the ruling. I'm almost 100% sure that a CSS was intened to replace the first three options. The rule is simply poorly worded.

Guys, what page are the pics of the tidal defense wall on (if any?).

Lord Ruby34 wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

Lord Ruby34 wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

Lord Ruby34 wrote:
Technically, with the rules as written a Coldstar Commander can take signature systems.

No. As written he can not take signature systems as he can only take the Coldstar instead of choosing from the first three options.

I have no doubt that that was the intention. However, nothing about the coldstar description disallows signature systems except by implication.

The wording is quite clear. You take the Coldstar instead of the first three options. No 'implication' as that is what it clearly says.

The exact wording of the Coldstar suit "A Commander may instead replace its Crisis Battlesuit with an XV86 Coldstar Battlesuit, equipped with a high output burst cannon and missile pod." The next line "A commander in an XV86 Coldstar Battlesuit may take up to two items from the support systems list and two drones from the drones list."

With the text as written the only thing the CSS replaces is the Crisis Suit. No where in the text does it make any mention of being disallowed to take signature systems. I don't think this was the intent of the ruling. I'm almost 100% sure that a CSS was intened to replace the first three options. The rule is simply poorly worded.

Dude. What do you think, what "instead" is referring to in the "A Commander instead replace its Crisis Battlesuit with an XV86 Coldstar Battlesuit"?

Lord Ruby34 wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

Lord Ruby34 wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

Lord Ruby34 wrote:
Technically, with the rules as written a Coldstar Commander can take signature systems.

No. As written he can not take signature systems as he can only take the Coldstar instead of choosing from the first three options.

I have no doubt that that was the intention. However, nothing about the coldstar description disallows signature systems except by implication.

The wording is quite clear. You take the Coldstar instead of the first three options. No 'implication' as that is what it clearly says.

The exact wording of the Coldstar suit "A Commander may instead replace its Crisis Battlesuit with an XV86 Coldstar Battlesuit, equipped with a high output burst cannon and missile pod." The next line "A commander in an XV86 Coldstar Battlesuit may take up to two items from the support systems list and two drones from the drones list."

With the text as written the only thing the CSS replaces is the Crisis Suit. No where in the text does it make any mention of being disallowed to take signature systems. I don't think this was the intent of the ruling. I'm almost 100% sure that a CSS was intened to replace the first three options. The rule is simply poorly worded.

There is already a precedent for this with Terminator Armor in the SM codex. If the HQ takes Termie Armor, he doesn't get the previous options. Full stop.

Lord Ruby34 wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

Lord Ruby34 wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

Lord Ruby34 wrote:
Technically, with the rules as written a Coldstar Commander can take signature systems.

No. As written he can not take signature systems as he can only take the Coldstar instead of choosing from the first three options.

I have no doubt that that was the intention. However, nothing about the coldstar description disallows signature systems except by implication.

The wording is quite clear. You take the Coldstar instead of the first three options. No 'implication' as that is what it clearly says.

The exact wording of the Coldstar suit "A Commander may instead replace its Crisis Battlesuit with an XV86 Coldstar Battlesuit, equipped with a high output burst cannon and missile pod." The next line "A commander in an XV86 Coldstar Battlesuit may take up to two items from the support systems list and two drones from the drones list."

With the text as written the only thing the CSS replaces is the Crisis Suit. No where in the text does it make any mention of being disallowed to take signature systems. I don't think this was the intent of the ruling. I'm almost 100% sure that a CSS was intened to replace the first three options. The rule is simply poorly worded.

Yes it does, and you quoted it yourself. Here it is again:

A Commander may instead replace its Crisis Battlesuit with an XV86 Coldstar Battlesuit...

So instead of taking the first three options, the Commander may instead replace his Crisis Battlesuit with an XV86 Coldstar Battlesuit. You're scenario doesn't work because you have him taking all of the options including the Coldstar when the rule clearly says he takes it instead of the other options.

I can't believe people can fail this badly in reading comprehension. It's pretty obvious that the Coldstar can't take the signature systems.

Quite nice presentation of the new stuff on the GW website:

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/Home

Why don't we all stop this pointless conversation and look at the pretty pictures instead:

Holy gak that FW kit has double everything (thats new), 20 heads, 20 shoulder pads, 20 backpacks. That explains the price hike .

We don't even know the next set of signature systems yet. So can both sides stop with their obtuse arguing.

Wow, that tidal wall thing is impressive.
That preview is not up on the Irish site however (yet):

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-IE/Home?mobile=false&_requestid=6319468

Only on the NZ site because GW doesn't know how the Internet works.

No, they figure, NZlanders are so loaded $315 is a steal

 Therion wrote:
I can't believe people can fail this badly in reading comprehension. It's pretty obvious that the Coldstar can't take the signature systems.

Access (unlimited!) to Signature Systems (which may well make or break this model, given its point costs) is at stake, and you can't believe people aren't testing the outer boundaries of rule interpretation?

My take:

You start with the (rebuttable) presumption that all words (or as many as possible) function and have meaning within the rule.

That is to say, unless you have something meaningful to show otherwise, a rule's words should mean something.

Now at BEST, there are two interpretations to what "instead" can refer to: A) the three previous options listed, or B) the Crisis Suit wargear.

Looking at the actual words, compare the following:
"May replace its Crisis Suit with a Coldstar suit."
"May instead replace its Crisis Suit with a Coldstar suit."

What function does instead perform under interpretation A? It negates the previously listed options, providing an alternative option: taking a coldstar suited commander.
What function does instead perform under interpretation B? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. "May replace" and "May instead replace" are entirely indistinguishable from each other, because referring to the battlesuit through "instead" doesn't matter due to the replacement of the battlesuit by the Coldstar REGARDLESS.

Between the two interpretations, then, only the "replaces all previous options" interpretation allows "Instead" to function and have meaning within the rule provided. Thus, there is a presumption that "replaces all previous options" is the most appropriate interpretation.

For anyone wanting to argue otherwise, the ball is now in your court: Why would we favor your interpretation DESPITE it making a word meaningless within the rule? Appealing to GW being bad at rule-making isn't going to go far, unless you believe they're SO bad at making rules that the presumption should be for nonfunctional over functional words in the rules. Good luck with that.


Edit: Ooooooooooooh. Preeeeeeeeeetty.

I really hope that Shadow Force Solaq does not have a "set" requirement of stuff for you to field.

Fancy stuff

Yeah, in all seriousness, pretty impressed with the Tau release tbh.
Crons got a new Dex, nothing really new minitaure-wise.
Eldar got a new dex - a few new bikes.
KDK - Thirster and a few proxies if you buy the AoS stuff.
DAs - nothing new really.

But Tau seemed to have defintely got some love. Its almost like GW did some sort of analysis and realised that Xenos factions could sell damn well if done right.....

*cough* Nids/Chaos please? *cough*

 Ratius wrote:
Yeah, in all seriousness, pretty impressed with the Tau release tbh.
Crons got a new Dex, nothing really new minitaure-wise.
Eldar got a new dex - a few new bikes.
KDK - Thirster and a few proxies if you buy the AoS stuff.
DAs - nothing new really.

But Tau seemed to have defintely got some love. Its almost like GW did some sort of analysis and realised that Xenos factions could sell damn well if done right.....

*cough* Nids/Chaos please? *cough*

To be honest though, the Tau line was extremely limited. We had like 3-4 models that served any function you'd want them to. It was great for the pocketbook because with magnets your Crisis Suits, Broadsides, and Riptide could be reused in a host of different roles. It just wasn't very interesting and reduced the number of purchases.

Granted but you could say that of:

Nids
Chaos
DAs (prior to recent release and still probably now)
Orks (if you want to be competitive)

List kind of goes on. Im not saying the new releases will set the world alight play-wise (dont play Tau so cant really comment) but the new kits do look damn good and add a lot of variety, from supermegarobots to new FWs to the defense line.

Either that or they will be pretty and sit on the shelf..... :(

That drone dock is looking pretty sweet.

lol at the 360 of the marine being painted Ultramarines. RG don't even get respect in their own sets.

The tau terrain is fantastic... the raven guard captain is terrible.

Any prices on those kit bundles? Any savings therein?

So, it appears that breaches and strikers are seperate kits, not a dual kit?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ooh, and it looks like they have inculded bits to make marker drones in the striker's box.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually, scratch that, their are options to build either two shield, gun, or maker drones. I'm actually impressed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
OK, this is wierd, tow sperte store entires (one for strikers, and one for breachers), but the boxes and spruses are completely identical. Sort of odd, but whatever.

The Fire Warrior kit is really great now.

I'm actually looking forward to using those breacher shoulderpads as they look a lot better/more practical than the existing pads.

What do the Breacher backpacks do? They're not some kind of drop troop are they?

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

OK, this is wierd, tow sperte store entires (one for strikers, and one for breachers), but the boxes and spruses are completely identical. Sort of odd, but whatever.

Yeah, that weirded me out too

Same kit. You can see the breachers guns on the third sprue.

Judging from the 360, the weird 3rd barrel on the shotgun is actually another lens. Ok, then.

 Bulldogging wrote:
lol at the 360 of the marine being painted Ultramarines. RG don't even get respect in their own sets.

Yeah, that is pretty annoying. The White Dwarf blurb about the boxed set made a mention of the fact that there is no Raven Guard specific iconography so you could "use the Captain with whatever Space Marine army you have"...which is kind of disappointing, considering the iconography that went into Karlaen and Krom.

Still. He's gonna be a great start to a Lias Issodon for my Raptors.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
OK, this is wierd, tow sperte store entires (one for strikers, and one for breachers), but the boxes and spruses are completely identical. Sort of odd, but whatever.

I'm assuming you're saying that it's weird that there are two separate online store entries (Breachers and Strike Team) for a single kit. It's actually standard practice for GW. For example, there are separate entries for Deathmarks and Immortals yet they're both the same kit. Same is true for Lychguard and Triarch Praetorians.

I'm actually really impressed by this kit. GW have outdone themselves. A duel kit with all the options, down to drones (and two of each) included. Although i'm still sort of annoyed that they brought us down to a 10 man squad. Casting issues perhaps?

The new Tau stuff is super hot. Love the paint scheme they chose this time around.

 Ghaz wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
OK, this is wierd, tow sperte store entires (one for strikers, and one for breachers), but the boxes and spruses are completely identical. Sort of odd, but whatever.

I'm assuming you're saying that it's weird that there are two separate online store entries (Breachers and Strike Team) for a single kit. It's actually standard practice for GW. For example, there are separate entries for Deathmarks and Immortals yet they're both the same kit. Same is true for Lychguard and Triarch Praetorians.

Huh, really? Then again, I've only really dealt with tau, and we've never had that AFAIK.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
OK, this is wierd, tow sperte store entires (one for strikers, and one for breachers), but the boxes and spruses are completely identical. Sort of odd, but whatever.

I'm assuming you're saying that it's weird that there are two separate online store entries (Breachers and Strike Team) for a single kit. It's actually standard practice for GW. For example, there are separate entries for Deathmarks and Immortals yet they're both the same kit. Same is true for Lychguard and Triarch Praetorians.

Huh, really? Then again, I've only really dealt with tau, and we've never had that AFAIK.

Ehhh...the Sun Shark/Razorshark were set up that way.

The Skitarii, Cult Mechanicus, Necrons, etc stuff that's dual kit is all the same.

Ah, well I never bothered with them. I have FW fliers instead.

Rarely do I praise GW, but those Breacher Helmets are top notche.

I always wondered why CQC teams in the future never had a camera on the back of there helmet, to put up alerts when they were being approached, and give a visual on what that was.


OUTSTANDING!

Also the Hammerhead/Sky Ray.

Hows he different? (dont play Tau) Engine nozel angles?

Triszin wrote:
Rarely do I praise GW, but those Breacher Helmets are top notche.

I always wondered why CQC teams in the future never had a camera on the back of there helmet, to put up alerts when they were being approached, and give a visual on what that was.


OUTSTANDING!

Well, the have a little camera on their gun, they could use that to peek around corners.

I hope my FLGS can get me the Tidewall and at a good discount too. My only hope. I don't want to pay GW first hand shipping which is insane.

Where as if I go through my FLGS I can get a discount.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

Triszin wrote:
Rarely do I praise GW, but those Breacher Helmets are top notche.

I always wondered why CQC teams in the future never had a camera on the back of there helmet, to put up alerts when they were being approached, and give a visual on what that was.


OUTSTANDING!

Well, the have a little camera on their gun, they could use that to peek around corners.

I dont think its supposed to be a camera, It looks like a Barrel Stabilizer to me. I think it looks better painted as a stabilizer, a camera right there would get broken way to fast, either internally or externally.

Triszin wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

Triszin wrote:
Rarely do I praise GW, but those Breacher Helmets are top notche.

I always wondered why CQC teams in the future never had a camera on the back of there helmet, to put up alerts when they were being approached, and give a visual on what that was.


OUTSTANDING!

Well, the have a little camera on their gun, they could use that to peek around corners.

I dont think its supposed to be a camera, It looks like a Barrel Stabilizer to me. I think it looks better painted as a stabilizer, a camera right there would get broken way to fast, either internally or externally.

They already have stabilizers, the gold do-dads. And I doubt it would break, look at the amount of cameras and sensors the tau use. Heck, they don't even have see-through visors, just cameras on their helmets. If crisis suits aren't constantly blind because their cameras/sensors get hit, I'd say the ones on the end of a gun are probably OK. I mean, if your gun gets hit with enough force to damage it, it won't matter if the camera gets damaged, because your gun is broken anyway. And It 's not that hard to keep something on the gun from being hit by it's own projectile. These aren't wimpy modern day sensors, these are advanced technology, armoured to withstand hits.

They've been doing that separate-entry-for-one-kit thing for awhile now. It's to help parents or others not involved in the game get the right kit.

Little Timmy says "Get me a Fire Warrior Strike Squad!" but Timmy!Mum only sees a Breacher squad on the website, so instead of risking buying Timmy the wrong thing, she gets him GTAVI instead.

GW loses money, Timmy learns that he can recoup his expenditure by killing ladies of negotiable affection, and no one wins. Well, maybe Timmy!Mum.

Am I the only one who is really bothered by this guys bird-stache?

Yeah, I don't like it lol

It's not like its a new concept for Space Marines. Marneus Calgar's Honour Guard have had that helmet for years.

It's pretty damn silly, yeah. Other than that one detail, though, it looks pretty much exactly like every single other plain, boring Marine captain in power armor that they've ever done.

 Unusual Suspect wrote:

 Therion wrote:
I can't believe people can fail this badly in reading comprehension. It's pretty obvious that the Coldstar can't take the signature systems.

Access (unlimited!) to Signature Systems (which may well make or break this model, given its point costs) is at stake, and you can't believe people aren't testing the outer boundaries of rule interpretation?

My take:

You start with the (rebuttable) presumption that all words (or as many as possible) function and have meaning within the rule.

That is to say, unless you have something meaningful to show otherwise, a rule's words should mean something.

Now at BEST, there are two interpretations to what "instead" can refer to: A) the three previous options listed, or B) the Crisis Suit wargear.

Looking at the actual words, compare the following:
"May replace its Crisis Suit with a Coldstar suit."
"May instead replace its Crisis Suit with a Coldstar suit."

What function does instead perform under interpretation A? It negates the previously listed options, providing an alternative option: taking a coldstar suited commander.
What function does instead perform under interpretation B? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. "May replace" and "May instead replace" are entirely indistinguishable from each other, because referring to the battlesuit through "instead" doesn't matter due to the replacement of the battlesuit by the Coldstar REGARDLESS.

Between the two interpretations, then, only the "replaces all previous options" interpretation allows "Instead" to function and have meaning within the rule provided. Thus, there is a presumption that "replaces all previous options" is the most appropriate interpretation.

For anyone wanting to argue otherwise, the ball is now in your court: Why would we favor your interpretation DESPITE it making a word meaningless within the rule? Appealing to GW being bad at rule-making isn't going to go far, unless you believe they're SO bad at making rules that the presumption should be for nonfunctional over functional words in the rules. Good luck with that.


Edit: Ooooooooooooh. Preeeeeeeeeetty.

You know, this actually sounds reasonable. I'll concede to your logic.

The new Fire Warrior Breacher/Striker kit looks great, especially with the options for drones included in the box. That Raven Guard Captain looks absolutely ridiculous though.

Fortifications set is already sold out in Australia and New Zealand. That was fast.

 Ghaz wrote:
It's not like its a new concept for Space Marines. Marneus Calgar's Honour Guard have had that helmet for years.

To be fair those ones look like stylized face plats, but because the Raven Guard one has the mouth opening it just looks like a silly bird-stache.

 Tinkrr wrote:
Am I the only one who is really bothered by this guys bird-stache?

He's secretly a fan of Turn A Gundam

 ChiliPowderKeg wrote:

 Tinkrr wrote:
Am I the only one who is really bothered by this guys bird-stache?

Spoiler:

He's secretly a fan of Turn A Gundam

Spoiler:

We now know how he should be painted forever more.

Metal mustache >>>>>> Bird-stache.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Metal mustache >>>>>> Bird-stache.

Sold out. Does that mean it is limited? As I feared then.
Otherwise out of stock would be more correct.

 Irubius wrote:

Sold out. Does that mean it is limited? As I feared then.
Otherwise out of stock would be more correct.

I'm personally not entirely sure about it being limited.

Games Workshop wrote:This amazing multi-part plastic kit contains everything needed to build a Tidewall Rampart; the mobile fortress and defensive bastion of the Tau Empire. In it, you’ll get a Tidewall Gunrig, a Tidewall Droneport (with four drones, built as gun, marker or shield drones) and two Tidewall Shieldlines.

Emphasis on the above is mine. Based on the wording, it would seem like the individual pieces of the overall rampart are separate sets. Hopefully this means that the three individual components will be available separately. *fingers crossed*

Huh, I actually really like the Raven Guard guy.

Has anyone actually bought the sold out units in those regions? That might just be the listing because they haven't received a shipment of them.

 ImAGeek wrote:
Huh, I actually really like the Raven Guard guy.

Someone here has a bird-stache

I wish I could grow a moustache like that

The bird laughs at your insufficient mustache abilities



But yea, I like the model as a whole, just not the helmet. Swap that out and it's all good.

My local store was told it was limited, but I guess that still doesn't mean much. The big box could still be limited and everything could be sold individually later like the other terrain. I think it's odd that the terrain isn't being sold individually to start with, though, since I'm pretty sure the Wall of Martyrs stuff was all available individually as well as in the box set when it first came out, and if I'm not mistaken the White Dwarf only listed the Tidewall Rampart box.

I also think it's odd they would name all the constituent parts of the Tidewall if you can only ever buy them as part of this specific box set, but that might not mean anything anyway. Maybe the rules allow for you to field only a Gunrig or Shieldline instead of the whole thing.

Anyway, when do pre-orders usually go up in the U.S.? It'll probably sell out immediately anyway, but I'm curious.

 Sidstyler wrote:
My local store was told it was limited, but I guess that still doesn't mean much. The big box could still be limited and everything could be sold individually later like the other terrain. I think it's odd that the terrain isn't being sold individually to start with, though, since I'm pretty sure the Wall of Martyrs stuff was all available individually as well as in the box set when it first came out, and if I'm not mistaken the White Dwarf only listed the Tidewall Rampart box.

I also think it's odd they would name all the constituent parts of the Tidewall if you can only ever buy them as part of this specific box set, but that might not mean anything anyway. Maybe the rules allow for you to field only a Gunrig or Shieldline instead of the whole thing.

Anyway, when do pre-orders usually go up in the U.S.? It'll probably sell out immediately anyway, but I'm curious.

I'd say you're spot on: the box comes with all the terrain, but you don't have to field all of it.

I expect plenty of people to simply make their own counts-as versions if the rules are good enough, even if the Tidewall Rampart isn't limited.

Wall of Martyrs started as the big box set as well, then individual ones later. WD mentions seem to go with the "individual fortifications datasheets + combined defense network option" like wall of Martyrs.


I put in a dibs for one from my FLGS, who tends to get at least 1-2 of all the LE stuff like the Void Shield or Plasma Obliterator so I'm pretty confident of getting one there, instead of trying to fight for one on GWUS website.

Limited Edition codex cover

Which also means someone has access to the WD with this picture in it.

Interesting that it still doesn't seem to be advertised as limited stock.

Pre-ordering anyway, just in case!

Yeah I ordered one just in case. And if it is not a limited thing it is not the end of the world. Would have spent the money on miniatures anyway

 Medium of Death wrote:
What do the Breacher backpacks do? They're not some kind of drop troop are they?

The breacher backpacks are most likely field amplifiers which increase the models invul save they get from the new shield drone from a 6++ to a 5++.

Wow, is it just me or is the Ethereal who comes with that new "Infiltration Cadre Burning Dawn" set an appalling sculpt?

I mean the muscles make his arms look as if they've come from a Catachan kit with Tau bracelets added on

And the face just looks weird to me, too, like he's had way too much plastic surgery and lost all expression.

The face i rather bad I agree but the look of it as a whole I really like. This is how a Ethereal should look if you ask me. As on the cover of the softcover codex.

Tidewall is sold out on GW UK website; hope Wayland get enough to fulfil my order?!

Sweden is out too

 Sidstyler wrote:

Anyway, when do pre-orders usually go up in the U.S.? It'll probably sell out immediately anyway, but I'm curious.

They go live at 1pm Eastern; but sometimes are up as early as 12:40pm Eastern.

You go out in the morning... pick up your WD... come home. Have a quick look through and decide, yeah, that Tidewall looks good. Go online to order and it's not just out of stock... it's no longer available.

They killed WFB which I played and now it's becoming impossible to even play 40k with people on a even footing.

Guess I have to hope that M.edge catches on in my area.

Look on the bright side, scratch building a tidewall should be pretty easy, there have been plenty of official GW instructions on making incredibly effective and cheap tau terrain. Now the tidewall is OOP (lol) we have "no choice" but to save our £90 and build our own. Unfortunately I have no railguns left.... to ebay!

 Gimgamgoo wrote:
You go out in the morning... pick up your WD... come home. Have a quick look through and decide, yeah, that Tidewall looks good. Go online to order and it's not just out of stock... it's no longer available.

They killed WFB which I played and now it's becoming impossible to even play 40k with people on a even footing.

Guess I have to hope that M.edge catches on in my area.

They didn't kill WFB, you can play with the most current rule book and your armies all you want, and also play AoS which is actually pretty fun.

Also, this is just a bundle of the new Tau scenery, the rest will most likely get released separately and not be limited.

People these days are so negative and "the world is ending" attitude! Or maybe that's just the Internet community.

Wow. That didn't take long. Some serious Tau crack addicts out there.

Why does this need to be a limited run thing anyways? It makes zero sense. I get that it encourages impulse buys, but wouldn't they sell more than the 2k-ish kits they made in this one run over the course of a year?

What time does the GW website usually update anyways?

 Mulletdude wrote:
Why does this need to be a limited run thing anyways? It makes zero sense. I get that it encourages impulse buys, but wouldn't they sell more than the 2k-ish kits they made in this one run over the course of a year?

As it stands, there is no indication that this is a limited run item in any format beyond this boxed set--i.e. "Once it's gone, you'll never be able to get it again" like the Plasma Obliterator was. This release method matches up to how the Wall of Martyrs set was released(big box with all the components released first with a limited availability , individual components later).

What time does the GW website usually update anyways?

1pm Eastern is when it goes live in the US, with all the banners and whatnots, but sometimes the preorders are up as early as 12:35-12:40pm Eastern.

 Gimgamgoo wrote:
You go out in the morning... pick up your WD... come home. Have a quick look through and decide, yeah, that Tidewall looks good. Go online to order and it's not just out of stock... it's no longer available.

They killed WFB which I played and now it's becoming impossible to even play 40k with people on a even footing.

Guess I have to hope that M.edge catches on in my area.

Noctem wrote:

They didn't kill WFB, you can play with the most current rule book and your armies all you want, and also play AoS which is actually pretty fun.

No more support... all the local players stopped playing... yeah... GW killed off WFB in my eyes.

Noctem wrote:

Also, this is just a bundle of the new Tau scenery, the rest will most likely get released separately and not be limited.

So why don't GW tell us this. Or, judging by the continual amount of people always peeved with the limited releases, why don't they just make more, therefore selling more, make more money, and keeping more people in the game as purchasers?

Noctem wrote:

People these days are so negative and "the world is ending" attitude! Or maybe that's just the Internet community.

Nah... When you've watched your healthy school club of (nearly always) 15-20 players slowly dwindle away to 1 player (and myself - the teacher) you realise GW's world is ending.
Every year at my club as the elder 4-5 pupils left school, 4-5 more would join in the newest year group. Nowadays, they turn up, look interested, then come back the next week having looked up the price of figures on the net and are never seen again.

In the last year and a half, I've tried (and failed) to purchase the following items:

Space Hulk
Nagash Hardback Rulebook
Lore of Undeath magic cards
Glottkin Hardback Rulebook
Dark Eldar objective cards
Leviathan campaign book
Khaine Hardback Rulebook
Battlemagic: End times cards

I guess it's GW's loss in the end and more money in the pocket of companies like Warlord and Mantic.

I got the mailing list email less than 2.5 hours ago, the dutch site lists it as sold as well, somehow I dont think its actually sold out, I mean how few kits could they have made lol. They prolly just did something wrong.

 Gimgamgoo wrote:


In the last year and a half, I've tried (and failed) to purchase the following items:

Space Hulk
Nagash Hardback Rulebook
Lore of Undeath magic cards
Glottkin Hardback Rulebook
Dark Eldar objective cards
Leviathan campaign book
Khaine Hardback Rulebook
Battlemagic: End times cards

I guess it's GW's loss in the end and more money in the pocket of companies like Warlord and Mantic.

To be fair GW doesn't print those cards and I don't blame them for wanting to keep stock up on every fething Data card considering how massive 40k has become, and everything else on your list is support materiel ie books they don't print themselves, for a game thats been dead since June. Space Hulk was always a novelty item for nostalgia and they even did a second run, I bought one like a sucker and I have never used it, I almost never fall for that hype either so it must be working.

The Tau terrain will end up sold in parts, rest assured.

Gimg, Gw's world is not ending at all. AoS has been successful and brought in a good amount of new players. The kits have never looked better, and I actually am seeing more players in my area than ever playing 40k, AoS, etc. I don't think you can base GW's world failing by your school's Warhammer club >.>

I had seen multiple books of the list you mentioned you failed to get on the shelves of multiple hobby stores a good amount of time after it was sold out online on Gw's website too.

Noctem wrote:
Gimg, Gw's world is not ending at all. AoS has been successful and brought in a good amount of new players. The kits have never looked better, and I actually am seeing more players in my area than ever playing 40k, AoS, etc. I don't think you can base GW's world failing by your school's Warhammer club >.>

I wasn't. The club in the nearest town, ironically a "40K club", now usually has a game (sometimes 2) of 40k, but most people are playing Bolt Action, Kings of War or X-Wing.

Noctem wrote:
I had seen multiple books of the list you mentioned you failed to get on the shelves of multiple hobby stores a good amount of time after it was sold out online on Gw's website too.

It's always so useful when someone tells you their local shop still has copies of game/book XXX on their shelf when you can't get them from your own local shop, or the online shops you regularly use, or the manufacturers website itself. :-(

I was speaking to my local model shop today. The owner has said he hasn't even sold the AoS box set (which was value for money), never mind any of the extras he has on the shelf. Apparently even his sales of WD dropped through all the AoS release schedule. Yeah, it's all local anecdotes, but they're the only type that bother me as that's the area I live in or can travel to, to game to. GW have killed off all interest in their own games in this area. If that was management's aim, then they can pat themselves on the back.

Ranting about GW again. There are other threads for that.

The discussion on GW's uncommunicativeness is not really relevant in the Tau rumour thread - especially since it's centred around AoS.

Slightly more on-topic: are we going to see a separate Commander kit which can either build an Enforcer or a Coldstar? If so, what will the Enforcer have to differentiate it?

100USD for 10 troop models.....
what the hell gw? thats more than double the price. I dont care if it has 20 heads i cant make 20 models from it. Biggest price hyke yet holy crap.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
100USD for 10 troop models.....
what the hell gw? thats more than double the price. I dont care if it has 20 heads i cant make 20 models from it. Biggest price hyke yet holy crap.

Are you on the AU site?

 Vineheart01 wrote:
100USD for 10 troop models.....
what the hell gw? thats more than double the price. I dont care if it has 20 heads i cant make 20 models from it. Biggest price hyke yet holy crap.

I thought the FW breacher squads were 50USD for 10?

 Vineheart01 wrote:
100USD for 10 troop models.....
what the hell gw? thats more than double the price. I dont care if it has 20 heads i cant make 20 models from it. Biggest price hyke yet holy crap.

100USD? Huh? Are you sure you're looking at the right website? They are $100 for New Zealanders, but $50 USD.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Crazyterran wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
100USD for 10 troop models.....
what the hell gw? thats more than double the price. I dont care if it has 20 heads i cant make 20 models from it. Biggest price hyke yet holy crap.

Are you on the AU site?

Not even the AU site, that's the New Zealand price.

Well....thats facepalm worthy...

I guess it reset my country of origin somehow. Never had that happen before without it just asking me where im from.

Nevermind lol

I'm guessing this is another female Tau judging by the Y shaped head markings. (Just like in the Ghostkeel)



Kudos to them for not going with the overtly sexy alien route. I hope this means there is hope for female heads in future updated kits like Guard infantry.

@Vinehart01 It's not facepalm worthy lol, just weird. I legitimately had to check my White Dwarf again to make sure there wasn't some price hike I was unaware of! Their new webstore does that randomly and it is really annoying.

@Hive City Dweller That is indeed a female Tau. I've gotta say that GW are really kicking it out of the park with this release model-wise.

Bobug wrote:
Look on the bright side, scratch building a tidewall should be pretty easy, there have been plenty of official GW instructions on making incredibly effective and cheap tau terrain. Now the tidewall is OOP (lol) we have "no choice" but to save our £90 and build our own. Unfortunately I have no railguns left.... to ebay!

Yeah, I am pretty positive that I can build an exact copy of the tidewall easily. I plan to sculpt it in clay and then cast the elements using plaster. I won't use it for gaming though, only for decorational purposes - I guess most people wouldn't play against a scratch build tidewall.

Cheers
Kahnawake

 Hive City Dweller wrote:
I'm guessing this is another female Tau judging by the Y shaped head markings. (Just like in the Ghostkeel)



Kudos to them for not going with the overtly sexy alien route. I hope this means there is hope for female heads in future updated kits like Guard infantry.

I'm glad for the head but I do wish we got one or two female torsos. I know some people don't like pin up style and that's fine. I just think you could cater to both.

Im doing mine in the white scheme. Im really digging that.

Too be fair, under hard body armor the female bits just disappear.

Triszin wrote:Well, the have a little camera on their gun, they could use that to peek around corners.

I dont think its supposed to be a camera, It looks like a Barrel Stabilizer to me. I think it looks better painted as a stabilizer, a camera right there would get broken way to fast, either internally or externally.

The fluff on Pulse Blasters, if you roll aaaaaaaaalll the way back to the WD88 Stormsurge details and captions, is that A.R.C. tech shoots out a stream of negatively charged particles milliseconds before the plasma blast itself, to act as a sort of "path primer" for the primary weapon effect. It's a sci-fi concept for energy weapons and a few realworld ballistic ones that I've heard a couple times in the past, but, it'd make sense if the Pulse Baster and the Pulse Blast Cannon are both ARC tech.

Long story short, I think the gun lens is that extra particle emitter. I think it's the same story for the third barrel of the Stormsurge Pulse Blastcannon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

migooo wrote:
I'm glad for the head but I do wish we got one or two female torsos. I know some people don't like pin up style and that's fine. I just think you could cater to both.

Wargames Exclusives have you covered for pin-up Tau, and Zealot Miniatures has some Female Kadesh heads and torsos that would work fine for a less-pin-up-but-still-kinda-boob-armor look.

The terrain is selling out everywhere.

vitae_drinker wrote:
Too be fair, under hard body armor the female bits just disappear.

Actually, not true

There are bullet proof body armor IRL that is designed to contour to the female body because the normal flat plate one is incredibly uncomfortable and depending on bust size painful to wear. Its lost with all the gear the armed forces strap to their chest (i was in the Air Force for 6 years, first time i saw that armor i was like "whaaa?" lol) but its not lost by the armor itself

However its pretty much accepted, whether its true or not i dunno, that female Tau dont really have a physical difference to male Tau other than the Y on their forehead. I mean, look at Shadowsun. Yeah shes wearing heavier armor than firewarriors but you can still see she has no real feminine features, even her face isnt very feminine.
That being said, i still wish it was a bit more different from males. The Y is easily lost at a distance or covered up in paint. Heck, the | on my males tends to vanish because i dont usually think to blacken it and it vanishes as i paint the skin. Last model i painted with his face visible was my cadre fireblade and it looks like one hell of an exaggeration between his eyebrows not a | lol.

Problem with female torsos is they generally give them virtually no armor, which just looks silly even if it is appealing to us guys. I bought some Zealot Miniatures Kadesh heads because those heads actually look feminine, im not worried about the torsos because they dont really fit with the firewarrior body armor to me.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The terrain is selling out everywhere.

The question is, will it be back?

 Medium of Death wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The terrain is selling out everywhere.

The question is, will it be back?

This is GW were talking about, money grabbers. Even if its a limited edition, if it sold out THAT fast even their dense sales market people will notice and mention it.
Its bound to be restocked.

Find it funny it sold out that fast though. There cant be THAT many tau players, and we dont know if this is cross-faction. I mean, you could want it for normal terrain i guess but thats some pricy trench-style terrain lol

 Vineheart01 wrote:

 Medium of Death wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The terrain is selling out everywhere.

The question is, will it be back?

This is GW were talking about, money grabbers. Even if its a limited edition, if it sold out THAT fast even their dense sales market people will notice and mention it.
Its bound to be restocked.

Find it funny it sold out that fast though. There cant be THAT many tau players, and we dont know if this is cross-faction. I mean, you could want it for normal terrain i guess but thats some pricy trench-style terrain lol

Odds are it's being bought up by ebay scalpers trying to turn a quick profit, just like the data cards for different codices. I want a set of this terrain, but I'd prefer to buy it through one of the 20-25% off online retailers than pay full price for it.

vitae_drinker wrote:
Too be fair, under hard body armor the female bits just disappear.

Your correct there. There's this very iconic picture of a Ukrainian MP in body armour. I think I'd like to do a tau similar to that.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vineheart01 wrote:

vitae_drinker wrote:
Too be fair, under hard body armor the female bits just disappear.

Actually, not true

There are bullet proof body armor IRL that is designed to contour to the female body because the normal flat plate one is incredibly uncomfortable and depending on bust size painful to wear. Its lost with all the gear the armed forces strap to their chest (i was in the Air Force for 6 years, first time i saw that armor i was like "whaaa?" lol) but its not lost by the armor itself

However its pretty much accepted, whether its true or not i dunno, that female Tau dont really have a physical difference to male Tau other than the Y on their forehead. I mean, look at Shadowsun. Yeah shes wearing heavier armor than firewarriors but you can still see she has no real feminine features, even her face isnt very feminine.
That being said, i still wish it was a bit more different from males. The Y is easily lost at a distance or covered up in paint. Heck, the | on my males tends to vanish because i dont usually think to blacken it and it vanishes as i paint the skin. Last model i painted with his face visible was my cadre fireblade and it looks like one hell of an exaggeration between his eyebrows not a | lol.

Problem with female torsos is they generally give them virtually no armor, which just looks silly even if it is appealing to us guys. I bought some Zealot Miniatures Kadesh heads because those heads actually look feminine, im not worried about the torsos because they dont really fit with the firewarrior body armor to me.

The zealot torsos are longer too

I found that Ghostkneel and steath suits got something in common - that bits at left hand of ghost and at round base at steath suits. Is this that holothing?

 Kahnawake wrote:

Bobug wrote:
Look on the bright side, scratch building a tidewall should be pretty easy, there have been plenty of official GW instructions on making incredibly effective and cheap tau terrain. Now the tidewall is OOP (lol) we have "no choice" but to save our £90 and build our own. Unfortunately I have no railguns left.... to ebay!

Yeah, I am pretty positive that I can build an exact copy of the tidewall easily. I plan to sculpt it in clay and then cast the elements using plaster. I won't use it for gaming though, only for decorational purposes - I guess most people wouldn't play against a scratch build tidewall.

Cheers
Kahnawake

Most people totally would my friend, especially if you did it well. How do you think Ork players even get to play?

migooo wrote:
I'm glad for the head but I do wish we got one or two female torsos.

That is a female torso.

 Hive City Dweller wrote:
I'm guessing this is another female Tau judging by the Y shaped head markings. (Just like in the Ghostkeel)



Kudos to them for not going with the overtly sexy alien route. I hope this means there is hope for female heads in future updated kits like Guard infantry.

I like how the armor has the Japanese flag on it :3

 Mr.T wrote:
I found that Ghostkneel and steath suits got something in common - that bits at left hand of ghost and at round base at steath suits. Is this that holothing?

I think the bit in the stealth suit kit is called the "Shroud Emitter" while the Ghostkeel arm part is the "Stealth Suite"

I could be wrong but I imagine in game terms they serve the same purpose.

I'm not sure why that piece is on a base in the Tau kit. It seems kind of redundant/stupid that it would be its own individual model rather than being attached to one of the suits or drones.

Not sure if it has any function in game. It might function as a deep strike marker?

 Vineheart01 wrote:

(...)
Find it funny it sold out that fast though. There cant be THAT many tau players, and we dont know if this is cross-faction. I mean, you could want it for normal terrain i guess but thats some pricy trench-style terrain lol

Say what you want about the Tau, many people think their general design and looks are great. This terrain simply looks really nice, a cool sci-fi design that will look great on the battlefield even as a neutral objective/terrain element. Maybe that's why it sold out that fast?

Kahnawake

When will preorders go live on the Canadian site? Same time as the US site?

I want my Tidewall super much so. If I don't get it I'll just have to grab the Ta'unar instead. Oh woes is me.

Preorders are up now on both US and Canada.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Preorders are up now on both US and Canada.

Let us see how long it takes to sell out...

U.S. Preorders are up, snagged the rampart and the Tau campaign box!

And after spending all the cash tooling the mould, the kit will only be costing a matter of pence in plastic to make, yet GW feel flush enough to not bother making enough for all the customers that want one. Fething idiots.

 Mulletdude wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Preorders are up now on both US and Canada.

Let us see how long it takes to sell out...

Don't know, but I snagged mine.

Got mine! Yes!

 Mulletdude wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Preorders are up now on both US and Canada.

Let us see how long it takes to sell out...

haha sold out already.

Less than 10 minutes

Aaaand, it's gone.

 Medium of Death wrote:

 Mr.T wrote:
I found that Ghostkneel and steath suits got something in common - that bits at left hand of ghost and at round base at steath suits. Is this that holothing?

I think the bit in the stealth suit kit is called the "Shroud Emitter" while the Ghostkeel arm part is the "Stealth Suite"

Those aren't the same parts he's referring to I believe. There is, on the Ghostkeel Wing photo, a small rounded bit with an antennae. You can see it on a Stealth Suit Shas'vre(and only the Shas'vre as IIRC it includes just one on the sprue) in this photo:


On a Ghostkeel in this photo, but it is present on all three built examples for the Ghostkeel Wing:


It leads me to believe that is meant to be the "Homing Beacon" as currently the Shas'vre of a Stealth Suit team can take one, but otherwise it does not exist except in certain places(Recon Drones for example)

I could be wrong but I imagine in game terms they serve the same purpose.
I'm not sure why that piece is on a base in the Tau kit. It seems kind of redundant/stupid that it would be its own individual model rather than being attached to one of the suits or drones.

Not sure if it has any function in game. It might function as a deep strike marker?

It has no function in-game. It's no different than the little Teleport Homer that comes with the Loyalist Terminator kits.

And, ugh. I'll definitely be swapping out the overgrown rail rifle for a Hammerhead's railgun, so long as the sizes are right.

Are you fething serious? I was in the process of checking out and got an error. I guess because they ran out before I could finish.

This is the stupidest fething company, I swear to God. "We're going to be so rich not having product to sell, guys!"...

 Gimgamgoo wrote:
And after spending all the cash tooling the mould, the kit will only be costing a matter of pence in plastic to make, yet GW feel flush enough to not bother making enough for all the customers that want one. Fething idiots.

Do you actually read what's been posted in this thread?

MajorWesJanson pointed out that this is the way that the Wall of Martyrs set was initially done. They released two different boxed sets including the entirety of the defensive works, sold through those, and then introduced the individual kit components.

What is "SOLD OUT"/"NO LONGER AVAILABLE" is the Web Store's allocation of this specific boxed set, including the entirety of the Tidewall Rampart. Contact your local independent or GW to see if all of the ones they have been allocated are already spoken for.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sidstyler wrote:
Are you fething serious? I was in the process of checking out and got an error. I guess because they ran out before I could finish.

This is the stupidest fething company, I swear to God. "We're going to be so rich not having product to sell, guys!"...

This is exactly what happened to me with "End Times: Khaine". I feel your pain.

Best bet is to ask your local shop if any they are getting in that are as of yet unspoken for.

I'm also shocked at the price of the new fire warrior box. $50? The old box was $36.25, and the new one comes with 2 less dudes and gains a pop up turret (and the drone options? Not like that's a lot of bits anyways)

First of all, are you sure you're remembering that right? Because I remember both the individual components and the box set being available for the other plastic terrain kits at the same time, while for this one only the "limited edition" box set is available.

And not all GW terrain is a general release, either. The void shield generator and plasma obliterator both sold in minutes and have yet to return.

As of right now there's really no way anyone can be sure this terrain will actually be available beyond this box. As of right now it practically is gone forever, unless you can find one at a local store, which is going to be unlikely for me in particular because the local store here in my town doesn't really keep much stock and everything is a special order. If GW is sold out, they won't be able to get one, either.

<20 minutes from live to sold out. This better not be the only time this kit is sold =\

 Gimgamgoo wrote:
And after spending all the cash tooling the mould, the kit will only be costing a matter of pence in plastic to make, yet GW feel flush enough to not bother making enough for all the customers that want one. Fething idiots.

Yeah, dumbasses! They sold out their entire production run in like ten minutes? How incompetent can they be? It's not like offering "limited editions" of things makes them sell like hotcakes.

Speaking of which, time for breakfast!

Not directed at anyone here in particular.

This is why you don't order stuff for a big release until you know there is none of this limited crap going on. Then you can get the not limited stuff.

 Hive City Dweller wrote:
I'm guessing this is another female Tau judging by the Y shaped head markings. (Just like in the Ghostkeel)

Spoiler:

Kudos to them for not going with the overtly sexy alien route. I hope this means there is hope for female heads in future updated kits like Guard infantry.

Heresy. I say go as sexy as possible.

http://wargameexclusive.com/product-category/greater-good/

 Sidstyler wrote:
First of all, are you sure you're remembering that right? Because I remember both the individual components and the box set being available for the other plastic terrain kits at the same time, while for this one only the "limited edition" box set is available.

There's a reason I specifically made a qualifier of "MajorWesJanson said". That was a timeframe of release I don't know about, because I was busy having a bit of a personal breakdown and 40k wasn't on my list of priorities.

And not all GW terrain is a general release, either. The void shield generator and plasma obliterator both sold in minutes and have yet to return.

The Void Shield Generator wasn't a plastic kit was it? Serious question as I had no interest in it.

Plasma Oblierator I'll agree with you on, I have no clue why that has yet to return. If I had to speculate? It might be something like they wanted to clear it out quickly and it's intended to come with a repacked Aquila Strongpoint at some juncture.

As of right now there's really no way anyone can be sure this terrain will actually be available beyond this box. As of right now it practically is gone forever, unless you can find one at a local store, which is going to be unlikely for me in particular because the local store here in my town doesn't really keep much stock and everything is a special order. If GW is sold out, they won't be able to get one, either.

That sucks. You might want to set an email alert on it, Monday/Tuesdays are usually when orders get cancelled because of people's credit cards or payments bouncing. You might get lucky.

Like I said though, I can emphathize. End Times: Khaine sold out in the same timeframe; I was checking out and bam it was gone. I lucked into a copy being held for me by a local shop.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

maceria wrote:

 Gimgamgoo wrote:
And after spending all the cash tooling the mould, the kit will only be costing a matter of pence in plastic to make, yet GW feel flush enough to not bother making enough for all the customers that want one. Fething idiots.

Yeah, dumbasses! They sold out their entire production run in like ten minutes? How incompetent can they be? It's not like offering "limited editions" of things makes them sell like hotcakes.

Speaking of which, time for breakfast!

The funny part is that the kit wasn't even advertised as Limited Edition. Nobody would have known that it was unless they were explicitly told that it was "While Stocks Last" by their retailers or the price sheet had been leaked.

Hilarious. I got an email from GW showcasing the release of the Tidewall..... 10 minutes AFTER it was already sold out lol

notredameguy10 wrote:
Hilarious. I got an email from GW showcasing the release of the Tidewall..... 10 minutes AFTER it was already sold out lol

Haha... me too

My local (independent) store gets at least a couple of everything and I have dibs on one. Otherwise, I would be seriously annoyed!

I'm 100% certain this will come back, either as a complete kit or in pieces, though. Frankly, I would prefer in pieces, as I can imagine wanting more sections of wall, or more gun towers, etc. It's just too good a seller not to bring back.

Note that the two campaign boxes have NOT sold out.

Was this actually limited release like the Plasma Obliterator? Or is it general release and they just need to make more?

The release was "while stocks last" for the combines, all the parts, kit. They will LIKELY release various sections on their own.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Sidstyler wrote:
First of all, are you sure you're remembering that right? Because I remember both the individual components and the box set being available for the other plastic terrain kits at the same time, while for this one only the "limited edition" box set is available.

There's a reason I specifically made a qualifier of "MajorWesJanson said". That was a timeframe of release I don't know about, because I was busy having a bit of a personal breakdown and 40k wasn't on my list of priorities.

Fair enough. I was honestly just asking because I'm not even really sure, that's just how I vaguely remember it going down. As I'm not an Imperial player and the terrain looked kinda crap anyway, it didn't exactly have 100% of my interest, either.

 Breotan wrote:
Was this actually limited release like the Plasma Obliterator? Or is it general release and they just need to make more?

No one knows. It could honestly go either way at this point, and because GW are fething donkey-caves I know which one my money's on right now.

You know, the money GW didn't get from me today.

 Gamgee wrote:
Not directed at anyone here in particular.

This is why you don't order stuff for a big release until you know there is none of this limited crap going on. Then you can get the not limited stuff.

Uh, okay...all I bought so far was a single ghostkeel, though. I had my card out and was in the process of checking out when they apparently ran out of stock. Lack of funds wasn't the issue here, it was lack of fething product. So I'm not sure who in particular your advice was aimed at but it sure as hell doesn't do me any good, nor would it have.

Also, I wouldn't act so confident just yet anyway. You could very easily get an e-mail from GW telling you there was an error on the website and your order was placed after they ran out of stock, and get a refund and/or voucher instead of your terrain set. It's happened to other people before, you know.

--------------

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Warhammer-40k-Tau-Tidewall-Rampart-Sold-Out-Pre-Order-/281831157394?hash=item419e722e92:g9kAAOSwA4dWIoCU

And so it begins, the first eBay auction on the U.S. site that I've seen. $375, more than twice retail. There's a special place in hell for eBay scalpers, that's for fething sure.

I said it wasn't directed at anyone here. You can get mad at me if you want but its kind of pointless really.

Actually I did have an error the first time I checked out, but next time it worked.

Apparently the product was marked as SOLD OUT as soon as it came up on the website on the west coast of the US. As a retailer I am even more frustrated by the fact that I asked our rep 3 times last week how many we would be able to order and when since I told him it would sell out before I could order any on Monday and he would not give me an answer.

 Sidstyler wrote:
Also, I wouldn't act so confident just yet anyway. You could very easily get an e-mail from GW telling you there was an error on the website and your order was placed after they ran out of stock, and get a refund and/or voucher instead of your terrain set. It's happened to other people before, you know.

They wouldn't do that. They don't even sell all their product when it's actually sold out -- there are lots of units allocated for both GW and independent stores, and those stores don't necessarily take all the units. Plus, the allocations aren't guaranteed until the store places the order, so instead of allowing a store to take 7, they could just say on Monday (when the stores will order), that they can only take 5.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Medium of Death wrote:

 Mr.T wrote:
I found that Ghostkneel and steath suits got something in common - that bits at left hand of ghost and at round base at steath suits. Is this that holothing?

I think the bit in the stealth suit kit is called the "Shroud Emitter" while the Ghostkeel arm part is the "Stealth Suite"

Those aren't the same parts he's referring to I believe. There is, on the Ghostkeel Wing photo, a small rounded bit with an antennae. You can see it on a Stealth Suit Shas'vre(and only the Shas'vre as IIRC it includes just one on the sprue) in this photo:

Spoiler:

On a Ghostkeel in this photo, but it is present on all three built examples for the Ghostkeel Wing:

Spoiler:

It leads me to believe that is meant to be the "Homing Beacon" as currently the Shas'vre of a Stealth Suit team can take one, but otherwise it does not exist except in certain places(Recon Drones for example)

I could be wrong but I imagine in game terms they serve the same purpose.
I'm not sure why that piece is on a base in the Tau kit. It seems kind of redundant/stupid that it would be its own individual model rather than being attached to one of the suits or drones.

Not sure if it has any function in game. It might function as a deep strike marker?

It has no function in-game. It's no different than the little Teleport Homer that comes with the Loyalist Terminator kits.

Ah right. Makes more sense.

I reeeeeeeeeeeeeeally want to buy a Ghostkeel now.

God dammit!

 Kimchi Gamer wrote:
Apparently the product was marked as SOLD OUT as soon as it came up on the website on the west coast of the US. As a retailer I am even more frustrated by the fact that I asked our rep 3 times last week how many we would be able to order and when since I told him it would sell out before I could order any on Monday and he would not give me an answer.

Im in arizona and it went up at 9:56am and was marked "sold out" at 10:06am

On the issue of limited releases -

I was curious about the book included in the Infiltration Cadre Burning Dawn…

Is there any chance the book would be sold separately, rather than in that box - perhaps a few months later down the line?

Clunker wrote:
On the issue of limited releases -

I was curious about the book included in the Infiltration Cadre Burning Dawn…

Is there any chance the book would be sold separately, rather than in that box - perhaps a few months later down the line?

It's not really a "book".

It's the same size as what came in Stormclaw and Deathstorm, a very small thing that gives you just enough to toy around with.

Are the campaign boxes limited too?

Also I appreciate the thread but any chance that the thread title/OP could be updated please?

 Kimchi Gamer wrote:
Apparently the product was marked as SOLD OUT as soon as it came up on the website on the west coast of the US.

That's not at all true. They went VERY fast, but they weren't marked SOLD OUT right away.

 Gamgee wrote:
I said it wasn't directed at anyone here. You can get mad at me if you want but its kind of pointless really.

Actually I did have an error the first time I checked out, but next time it worked.

I'm a little salty right now, yeah. Regardless though I didn't really "get" your post, because I told you what happened in my case and I didn't see anyone else lamenting about not being able to afford it because they bought too many stormsurges or ghostkeels and didn't save enough for the rampart.

 Thraxas Of Turai wrote:
Are the campaign boxes limited too?

Also I appreciate the thread but any chance that the thread title/OP could be updated please?

They're also listed as "While Stocks Last".

Cheers Kanluwen, hopefully they are more of Death storm type "while stocks last" affair rather than the Tidewall. I like the two characters in the Campaign boxes, they also have offer some nice savings when bought from your FLGS.

I'll check with my local store on Tuesday to see if they are getting one. If so I'll pick it up. My GW or one of my 3-4 locals. I'm slightly annoyed but not pissed. I'll grab one or the parts at some point.

 Sidstyler wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
I said it wasn't directed at anyone here. You can get mad at me if you want but its kind of pointless really.

Actually I did have an error the first time I checked out, but next time it worked.

I'm a little salty right now, yeah. Regardless though I didn't really "get" your post, because I told you what happened in my case and I didn't see anyone else lamenting about not being able to afford it because they bought too many stormsurges or ghostkeels and didn't save enough for the rampart.

It was a random thought I threw out into the internet. I mean wouldn't it be funny? I know I would laugh at the poor guy who bought the very first thing he seen and then couldn't afford the limited edition release. Now I'm not saying that was you. I'm just saying it probably happened to someone out there somewhere and I am laughing.

Hey guys does this help?

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/10/40k-new-tau-tidewall-rampart-details.html

All the way at the bottom it says: BoLS has been informed the Tidewall Rampart will be a limited run as a combined boxed set, so buy it while you can. It will return in time as separate standalone components.

I'm not sure how reliable Bell of Lost Souls is when it comes to rumors, but it's something to go on at least.

Really, it's gone already? By the time I even knew they were taking preorders it's flat-out gone.

Why are limited preorders even a thing? Isn't the whole point of preorders so you can make exactly the number you need to meet demand? Limited time I can understand, but why is everyone doing limited quantity preorders nowadays?

Not reliable at all. Lord of War Gaming basically gave them all their rumors that came true. Well they echoed from him more like.

We know nothing about the sculpt of the Tidewall or anything really aside from a few pictures and yet people are frothing at the mouth that they couldn't get one. This is exactly what GW wants, rampant impulse purchases. Maybe everyone that didn't get one have done themselves a favour. Let's wait and see?

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Well....thats facepalm worthy...

I guess it reset my country of origin somehow. Never had that happen before without it just asking me where im from.

Nevermind lol

I think it's secret market research carried out periodically by GW in which they re-route the US site to the AUS/NZ one then scour forums to see if anyone is saying "Hey, $50 for a single monopose plastic model? What a bargain!"

Bradeh wrote:
We know nothing about the sculpt of the Tidewall or anything really aside from a few pictures and yet people are frothing at the mouth that they couldn't get one. This is exactly what GW wants, rampant impulse purchases. Maybe everyone that didn't get one have done themselves a favour. Let's wait and see?

I figured I'd buy it and not open it and see if its any good in 1-2 weeks when the rules come out. If it sucks then I can always return it!

NanoHvirus wrote:Hey guys does this help?

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/10/40k-new-tau-tidewall-rampart-details.html

All the way at the bottom it says: BoLS has been informed the Tidewall Rampart will be a limited run as a combined boxed set, so buy it while you can. It will return in time as separate standalone components.

I'm not sure how reliable Bell of Lost Souls is when it comes to rumors, but it's something to go on at least.

-Larry Vela

-No source attached to claim

Thank you for visiting Taco BOLS. We hope you have enjoyed giving us money by clicking on this article.

Rainyday wrote:Really, it's gone already? By the time I even knew they were taking preorders it's flat-out gone.

Why are limited preorders even a thing? Isn't the whole point of preorders so you can make exactly the number you need to meet demand? Limited time I can understand, but why is everyone doing limited quantity preorders nowadays?

You seem to misunderstand the point of limited preorders. They are not there to gauge demand, they are there to guarantee product sales by creating artificial scarcity. But ten minutes is fast even by GW standards. And here I thought that the Eldar Limited Edition codexes went quickly!

Somewhere, Jervis Johnson is cackling maniacally into the night. "The Fools! The Fools! MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!"

Seeing as BOLS list of the components in the Big Box O'Tidewall is missing the non-railgun/non-drone "ring" component, it's a rumor right on par with their usual quality.

But I do hope that the "separate component" releases will happen, as well, even if it means the blind squirrel (BOLS) finding a nut for once.


Too bad we'll probably have to wait for codex releases to see any further movement on other xenos terrain, though.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

Yoyoyo wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
Contrary to some posters you can compare this thing to being 2 carnifexes with FNP, and those are laughably easy to kill, the difference is you were nice enough to put them in 1 gigantic spot and spend more points to do so.

It will be unlikely you will ever anchor it against a decent player and its weapons are just meh. Even fire at double at B5 it struggles at killing a tactical squad in the open, and gods help you if go against grav.

Carnifexes don't have Interceptor, Skyfire or a 4++ which is almost a guaranteed add on the Stormsurge.

Multiple S10AP1 blasts are not going to struggle against Tac squads or even Grav Cents. It has a Skyfire D weapon that you can combo with Ignore Cover, it has 60" range missiles that hit at AP1, it has Stomp and a 12" move, it's got tons of S5 in a single unit that will economise Markerlights... this is good. It will handle FMC, drop armies, Gladius MSU, Decurion, hordes, whatever. At 400-ish points each with upgrades, you are getting close to 2x Stormsurges for the price of a super tuna + bubblewrap or even a maxed-out FSC. That's a very respectable comparison.

I think a lot of the hate is due to players who wanted an ultra-durable castling gunline centrepiece, instead they got a door-kicker with a shotgun. A curveball Tau list with 2 Stormsurges could win LVO, and Tau players would probably still hate it due to T6/3+ and the anchoring mechanic. It all seems a little irrational.

First, blast weapons can't hit flyers or FMCs/ FGMCs. Even if they have skyfire they can't. Besides, the D is at 10", not a real game-changer, except against something like an assaulting knight (and if the knight survives, the suit is beyond dead because of the knights CC abilities and weapons). And those big scary missiles, are actually just 4 seeker missiles without the ability to to fire ignoring cover+LOS for s single marker. Not anything new at all. In fact, they are worse than seekers.

Also, we have no ideas what the support system retriciton in the codex will be, or even what will be removed. It will probably have a sheild generator available (judging from the pics), but probably the same as a riptide (5++), so it's not a big deal).

Now, I'm not one of the crowd who things this thing is weak, it seems very balanced to me, neither weak nor strong, I just find it underwhelming in what it does. We seriously don't need more anti-horde.

No the strength 5 shots can though. It has a decent amount of those

FMC and FMGC can indeed be hit by blasts. Check the BRB. Restriction is only on flyers.

jakejackjake wrote:


No the strength 5 shots can though. It has a decent amount of those

Yes, but (assuming it doesn't get nerfed) you could just use breadsides for that. Mass S7 is better than mass S5 any day of the week.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

vitae_drinker wrote:
FMC and FMGC can indeed be hit by blasts. Check the BRB. Restriction is only on flyers.

Eh, RAW, but that's now how we've ever played it where I'm from. Indeed, we didn't even know that was the case.

At the army box sets (tau and ravenwing) limited edition?

My GW guy seemed to think the Tau fortification was going to be produced again, so hopefully that isn't it in terms of one production run!

I love my Ghostkeel, it's always a delight to crack open a new GW kit.

 BrookM wrote:
I love my Ghostkeel, it's always a delight to crack open a new GW kit.

How do you find posing it? Did you go with the standard pose or remove the tabs to make it more flexible?

 Medium of Death wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
I love my Ghostkeel, it's always a delight to crack open a new GW kit.

How do you find posing it? Did you go with the standard pose or remove the tabs to make it more flexible?

I went with a custom pose, so I cut away the small squares on the legs for a more upright position that I could stick onto a 60mm base, which made it a bit trickier to get everything together. But with a bit of patience, planning and good plastic glue it comes together like a dream.

It should be easy enough to proxy. Four Piranha wings ordered from bits, one hammerhead railgun left over from the kit, a few flying bases cut in half to act as the shield wall, and some ashtrays or petfood bowls, and you'll be able to make your own.

All you need is the rules available.

 BrookM wrote:

 Medium of Death wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
I love my Ghostkeel, it's always a delight to crack open a new GW kit.

How do you find posing it? Did you go with the standard pose or remove the tabs to make it more flexible?

I went with a custom pose, so I cut away the small squares on the legs for a more upright position that I could stick onto a 60mm base, which made it a bit trickier to get everything together. But with a bit of patience, planning and good plastic glue it comes together like a dream.

Spoiler:

That looks really slick in that upright position. Nice work, man.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

jakejackjake wrote:


No the strength 5 shots can though. It has a decent amount of those

Yes, but (assuming it doesn't get nerfed) you could just use breadsides for that. Mass S7 is better than mass S5 any day of the week.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

vitae_drinker wrote:
FMC and FMGC can indeed be hit by blasts. Check the BRB. Restriction is only on flyers.

Eh, RAW, but that's now how we've ever played it where I'm from. Indeed, we didn't even know that was the case.

Well, when making rules calls it's generally best to know the rules. Just saying.

vitae_drinker wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

jakejackjake wrote:


No the strength 5 shots can though. It has a decent amount of those

Yes, but (assuming it doesn't get nerfed) you could just use breadsides for that. Mass S7 is better than mass S5 any day of the week.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

vitae_drinker wrote:
FMC and FMGC can indeed be hit by blasts. Check the BRB. Restriction is only on flyers.

Eh, RAW, but that's now how we've ever played it where I'm from. Indeed, we didn't even know that was the case.

Well, when making rules calls it's generally best to know the rules. Just saying.

Well, it's sort of the obvious assumption. Oh, snapfire against fliers"and FMCs, I guess that means no blast weapons." At least I think that was the casein 6th (I could be wrong). So we sort of looked at it and it appeared to be the same.

 TheNewBlood wrote:

You seem to misunderstand the point of limited preorders. They are not there to gauge demand, they are there to guarantee product sales by creating artificial scarcity. But ten minutes is fast even by GW standards. And here I thought that the Eldar Limited Edition codexes went quickly!

Somewhere, Jervis Johnson is cackling maniacally into the night. "The Fools! The Fools! MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!"

True, but how much benefit do you really get out of it if even the people about to make a quick impulse purchase can't get one?

The tidewall and the new crisis suits were the only things I was interested in, and I didn't even need more suits. Now, I actually have time to think about it. I may not even need a tidewall, or maybe I'll just wait 6 months and buy a used one on ebay if the rules turn out to be crap.

I'm really not keen on how they are doing this release, I get that they are trying to drive customers into the stores for a prolonged period but from a buyers perspective this sucks. Due to the info blackouts I can't really budget for purchasing in advance, which if I were able to I'd probably actually spend more. Then all of the units are being released well in advance of the codex itself so it compounds things by not knowing what I'd need. As much as I'd like to run out and just buy 3 of every kit "just because" that's not a realistic option.

I caved and bought a storm surge last week so that I could work on something new, but because of that I had to put off purchasing a pair of ghostkeels. I would have rather bought those but the week in between was prime hobby time I wanted to utilize. Had there been an advertised release schedule I could have started planning 4-5 months ago and had money to put towards buying multiple stormsurges and ghostkeels along with crisis suits and breachers, but instead of being able to drop upwards of $1k on a release I can plan and budget for they only get $150 of my money and maybe some additional small sales in a couple months time...

40k is an expensive hobby, I'm not crying poormouth I accept those costs as part of the game but it's very frustrating the way they tiered these releases alongside their info blackouts. I don't mind paying for my hobby but a little advanced notice would do wonders for helping customers plan their purchases and at least in my case it'd help me prepare to spend more as a planned expense rather then when I make small purchases as spur of the moment shopping.

To me It just seems like they are hindering a lot of their own sales potential.

Just wanted to update on the little bumpy bit on the left arm of the Ghostkeels in the Ghostkeel wing photo and the back of the Stealth Shas'vre, as I read the White Dwarf and the bit is explicitly named!

It's a Drone Controller.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Clunker wrote:
On the issue of limited releases -

I was curious about the book included in the Infiltration Cadre Burning Dawn…

Is there any chance the book would be sold separately, rather than in that box - perhaps a few months later down the line?

It's not really a "book".

It's the same size as what came in Stormclaw and Deathstorm, a very small thing that gives you just enough to toy around with.

Well, I was mostly interested in the 'story' included, along with the new art; so, no chance of the book being released solo?

 paulson games wrote:
40k is an expensive hobby, I'm not crying poormouth I accept those costs as part of the game but it's very frustrating the way they tiered these releases alongside their info blackouts. I don't mind paying for my hobby but a little advanced notice would do wonders for helping customers plan their purchases and at least in my case it'd help me prepare to spend more as a planned expense rather then when I make small purchases as spur of the moment shopping.

To me It just seems like they are hindering a lot of their own sales potential.

I feel the same way, and I always tell the manager at my GW store this. It's hard to budget when I don't know what's coming, how expensive it will be, and whether or not I'll want more than one with all the blackouts. The result is I spend no money. I have some disposable income but not enough to impulse buy a $150 kit. I need to plan a bit. I'd love to pick up a Ghostkeel and some Firewarriors but I also want some Crisis Suits and the Commander, and I can't afford them all this month. So I just wait and buy one. If I'd known these were coming even 2 months ago I could have saved up and bought them all.

Were there even any rules out for the Tidewall? Or did people just buy it for the model?

There were some known things about it, such as it having four drones of your choice from the basic drones, a twin linked railgun (the thing on the Hammerhead), and that it could potentially deflect bullets. Though we didn't have any direct stats or point cost.

That being said, I was pretty hyped about it as it can be an actually cost effective rail gun.

We don't know any solid rules, just names and descriptions. Those give us pretty decent guesses.

So yes, people bought it mostly because that model is awesome.

Really awesome.


I agree Paulson, your insight is spot on about the release: it's very unfriendly to customers. It's a solid marketing strategy, but what's good for the company and whats good for the customer aren't always the same. At least the models are fantastic this time, mostly.

Got 2 ghostkeels from my FLGS. Didnt get a third since my dumbass forgot to tell them i would be buying 3 lol. Oh well.

The sprues are absolutely amazing. Opened one up in front of the store guy and both of us were just gushing over the pieces lol.
I was surprised how simple the cockpit looks to put together. I fully expected it to be a 5-6 piece thing if you wanted to bother, but no its fused right into the torso halves with a front bit, overhead bit, and of course the suit head.
Totally making my squad leader to have an open cockpit and have her in a pose out of it so i can actually see the cockpit inside (with the model you really cant see jack in there)

 Cirronimbus wrote:

 paulson games wrote:
40k is an expensive hobby, I'm not crying poormouth I accept those costs as part of the game but it's very frustrating the way they tiered these releases alongside their info blackouts. I don't mind paying for my hobby but a little advanced notice would do wonders for helping customers plan their purchases and at least in my case it'd help me prepare to spend more as a planned expense rather then when I make small purchases as spur of the moment shopping.

To me It just seems like they are hindering a lot of their own sales potential.

I feel the same way, and I always tell the manager at my GW store this. It's hard to budget when I don't know what's coming, how expensive it will be, and whether or not I'll want more than one with all the blackouts. The result is I spend no money. I have some disposable income but not enough to impulse buy a $150 kit. I need to plan a bit. I'd love to pick up a Ghostkeel and some Firewarriors but I also want some Crisis Suits and the Commander, and I can't afford them all this month. So I just wait and buy one. If I'd known these were coming even 2 months ago I could have saved up and bought them all.

This honestly always kinda confuses me. Sure, we don't know for certain what will be coming next, but rumours have indicated for months that Tau would be in October.

What you could've done is read the rumoured October release date, budgeted for a Tau release (say, $500-$1000 depending on how spendy you want to be) and save that up over the 3 months or so since the solid rumours about the release date started to surface.

Then, one of two outcomes would occur:

1. The Tau are released in October as rumoured, you've got your savings stashed away and can spend them gleefully on more plasticrack.

2. The rumours were false, the Tau aren't released, but now you have $500-$1000 to spend on whatever was released instead, or save for Christmas, or spend on booze, or buy your significant other something fancy, etc etc etc.

It's what I do and it works quite well. Either the rumours come true and my savings are ready to go, or they're false and I suddenly have a surplus of discretionary cash to throw around.

That said, GW is clearly not aiming for the cautious budgeters with their release structure - they want the impulse buyer, the splurger, not us reasonable financiers.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Got 2 ghostkeels from my FLGS. Didnt get a third since my dumbass forgot to tell them i would be buying 3 lol. Oh well.

The sprues are absolutely amazing. Opened one up in front of the store guy and both of us were just gushing over the pieces lol.
I was surprised how simple the cockpit looks to put together. I fully expected it to be a 5-6 piece thing if you wanted to bother, but no its fused right into the torso halves with a front bit, overhead bit, and of course the suit head.
Totally making my squad leader to have an open cockpit and have her in a pose out of it so i can actually see the cockpit inside (with the model you really cant see jack in there)

Is the open cockpit something you could put under the closed one, or is it made in such a way that you have to pick one or the other?

I really hope it's the former, since then I could magnetize the closed one and play in either form, or take off the enclosure to denote use of the Holopoint system.

 Dr. Delorean wrote:

This honestly always kinda confuses me. Sure, we don't know for certain what will be coming next, but rumours have indicated for months that Tau would be in October.

What you could've done is read the rumoured October release date, budgeted for a Tau release (say, $500-$1000 depending on how spendy you want to be) and save that up over the 3 months or so since the solid rumours about the release date started to surface.

Then, one of two outcomes would occur:

1. The Tau are released in October as rumoured, you've got your savings stashed away and can spend them gleefully on more plasticrack.

2. The rumours were false, the Tau aren't released, but now you have $500-$1000 to spend on whatever was released instead, or save for Christmas, or spend on booze, or buy your significant other something fancy, etc etc etc.

It's what I do and it works quite well. Either the rumours come true and my savings are ready to go, or they're false and I suddenly have a surplus of discretionary cash to throw around.

That said, GW is clearly not aiming for the cautious budgeters with their release structure - they want the impulse buyer, the splurger, not us reasonable financiers.

My bad perhaps I should have just dipped into my plastic Thunderhawk savings I've been sitting on for the last 15 years since "it's about to release next week". The forums are full of useless misleading info, additionally not everyone is super active online checking for rumors.

When I go to buy a PS4 or Xbox for example I generally have months of lead time to plan for buying a new system or a game. It may not be an exact date but they are pretty transparent about a release schedule, GW used to be that way as well but the black out system they have nowdays sucks. Privateer press still previews all of their upcoming items with distributors and retailers, but they actually want their independent retailers to support them and stock product, where GW would prefer for independent LGS's to feth off and make sure sales only flow to their direct stores and website.

 Dr. Delorean wrote:
What you could've done is read the rumoured October release date, budgeted for a Tau release (say, $500-$1000 depending on how spendy you want to be) and save that up over the 3 months or so since the solid rumours about the release date started to surface.

Are you seriously suggesting that I should hold back $500-1000 for a new army release every time there's a rumor of something, just in case I need to grab a limited-edition kit in the 15 minutes before it sells out? I'm sorry, but that's just insane.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

That said, GW is clearly not aiming for the cautious budgeters with their release structure - they want the impulse buyer, the splurger, not us reasonable financiers.

While true, it's also incredibly stupid. "Millionaires with poor impulse control" is not a target market that any sensible game company wants to be limited to.

 paulson games wrote:

 Dr. Delorean wrote:

This honestly always kinda confuses me. Sure, we don't know for certain what will be coming next, but rumours have indicated for months that Tau would be in October.

What you could've done is read the rumoured October release date, budgeted for a Tau release (say, $500-$1000 depending on how spendy you want to be) and save that up over the 3 months or so since the solid rumours about the release date started to surface.

Then, one of two outcomes would occur:

1. The Tau are released in October as rumoured, you've got your savings stashed away and can spend them gleefully on more plasticrack.

2. The rumours were false, the Tau aren't released, but now you have $500-$1000 to spend on whatever was released instead, or save for Christmas, or spend on booze, or buy your significant other something fancy, etc etc etc.

It's what I do and it works quite well. Either the rumours come true and my savings are ready to go, or they're false and I suddenly have a surplus of discretionary cash to throw around.

That said, GW is clearly not aiming for the cautious budgeters with their release structure - they want the impulse buyer, the splurger, not us reasonable financiers.

My bad perhaps I should have just dipped into my plastic Thunderhawk savings I've been sitting on for the last 15 years since "it's about to release next week". The forums are full of useless misleading info, additionally not everyone is super active online checking for rumors.

When I go to buy a PS4 or Xbox for example I generally have months of lead time to plan for buying a new system or a game. It may not be an exact date but they are pretty transparent about a release schedule, GW used to be that way as well but the black out system they have nowdays sucks. Privateer press still previews all of their upcoming items with distributors and retailers, but they actually want their independent retailers to support them and stock product, where GW would prefer for independent LGS's to feth off and make sure sales only flow to their direct stores and website.

Pfft, I've got like $15k put away for gene stealer cult, and like 40 kilos of coke I plan on trading for Kroot when codex: Kroot mercs comes out.

So!d out? China ho!!!

Pretty much. GW is not only pricing themselves out of contention, but high prices with limited supply?

Someone will pick up the slack to fill demand.

 Dr. Delorean wrote:


That said, GW is clearly not aiming for the cautious budgeters with their release structure - they want the impulse buyer, the splurger, not us reasonable financiers.

Couldn't they have both? I mean most companies target both as opposed to one or the other.

maceria wrote:
Pfft, I've got like $15k put away for gene stealer cult, and like 40 kilos of coke I plan on trading for Kroot when codex: Kroot mercs comes out.

I think 40 kilos of cocaine pretty much buys you the entire gw collection

Interestingly if you thought GW was outrageous in their pricing in Australia, I read that a kilo of coke is literally fifteen times more expensive in Australia than the USA. It costs $250,000 for 1 kilo in Sidney.

I think therefore, we should convince all the coke users in Australia to boycott narcotics and play 40k instead.

Really, 15x as much? I'm assuming that's straight value, after adjusting for exchange rates? I figured it would be more expensive, being (presumably) a more isolated market, what with all the logistics of not being able to just carry it in through Arizona, but 15x is a pretty hefty adjustment.

Well, to be fair, Australia is kinda in the middle of the south Pacific. It's not like you can fly cocaine from Columbia to Australia like you can to the US.

Nah our government would rather throw cash at advertisements that have 0 effect.

Kinda like when I throw knives at a picture of Kirby - for some reason it doesn't change the pricing scheme of GW.

Called local GW and he said the store would most likely not be getting one, called a local flgs and they said the one they will be getting will be a store copy and shared among players, called another one and they said they would hold one for me if they get one. Guess I'll see mid week!

maceria wrote:
Really, 15x as much? I'm assuming that's straight value, after adjusting for exchange rates? I figured it would be more expensive, being (presumably) a more isolated market, what with all the logistics of not being able to just carry it in through Arizona, but 15x is a pretty hefty adjustment.

15x or more! I guess that's one way to solve addiction problems! USD $10-15k near the south (proximity to Mexico). $150k-250k in Australia.

http://www.theage.com.au/it-pro/australian-illegal-drugs-among-worlds-most-expensive-20110616-1g5ie.html

The funny thing is, one time I was trying to google why gw models were more expensive in AU and got that, lol.

 Tinkrr wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Got 2 ghostkeels from my FLGS. Didnt get a third since my dumbass forgot to tell them i would be buying 3 lol. Oh well.

The sprues are absolutely amazing. Opened one up in front of the store guy and both of us were just gushing over the pieces lol.
I was surprised how simple the cockpit looks to put together. I fully expected it to be a 5-6 piece thing if you wanted to bother, but no its fused right into the torso halves with a front bit, overhead bit, and of course the suit head.
Totally making my squad leader to have an open cockpit and have her in a pose out of it so i can actually see the cockpit inside (with the model you really cant see jack in there)

Is the open cockpit something you could put under the closed one, or is it made in such a way that you have to pick one or the other?

I really hope it's the former, since then I could magnetize the closed one and play in either form, or take off the enclosure to denote use of the Holopoint system.

I havent tried to assemble them yet because im still painting my stormsurge (good god the way my color scheme is makes that thing a nightmare....im goin on the better of 24hrs of work on that thing already and i still got a lot to do) but the instructions are pretty clear.

The top half that "flips up" when the cockpit is open is what the head is attached to it seems.
Both the top, helmet, and front piece can be glued in open or closed position but they arent designed to move. If youre clever enough you could probably add some small magnets so you can open it up. Personally i really wanted to model one with the pilot legitimately OUT of the cockpit but the lower half is molded into the model itself, so i'd have to get creative to fix that one lol.

I think I may have bought two of the Tau terrain box. I think.

The ghost keel suit has a nifty little "click" that helps keep the cockpit closed when unglued, but a little pressure and it pops open revealing the pilot inside. Once primed and painted I imagine the friction fit will be that much tighter making the need for magnets marginal at best.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I think I may have bought two of the Tau terrain box. I think.

You lucky bastard.

I took one for the team and downloaded the ghost keel painting guide. (I wish they catered to a higher level of ability)There is one more picture of the new suits

I actually got asked if i wanted to get one of those fortifications by my FLGS since im the only Tau player with any real merit. The other tau players have like 1500pts tops and seldom show their face.
I said no because i still think its a bit douchy to bring fortifications, and i see this thing either being OP as balls with the way we think it works by the description, or being restricted to uselessness with the actual rules (like what i mentioned before about it being unable to go over terrain, even just a barricade).
Wasnt any discount or anything was just a guaranteed getting my hands on one. I never liked any of the fortifications.

Ive dumped enough money for the next few months lol. I still have Wave2 for Star Wars Armada to siphon 160 bucks outta my life for too lol. Pretty much cant buy anything now until january, else i start tapping into bank reserves.

It's good to hear that the Ghostkeel isn't made in such a way where you have to pick if you want the pilot or the out piece, and it's pretty easy to throw a few magnets on just so there's less scratching of the paint.

And yea, I know the pain of certain paint schemes as I never knew just how big the Crisis Suit was until I actually painted one D:

Actually the crisis suits almost broke my color scheme. They dont seem to have anywhere near as many breaks in the armor patterns (as in parts like the stripes on firewarrior/riptide legs). Further made me detest the old crisis suit models lol. I have next to no green or white on them compared to the other models.

Thats why the stormsurge is giving me so many problems. Its absolutely COVERED in those armor gaps lol. Cockpit isnt exactly a cakewalk to paint either im finding. Yeesh....

I find that not to be a problem. My colour schemes tend to be based in realism (actual camo for the situation at hand, although that's not limited to greens, browns and grays, plenty of red planets, noxious yellow swamps, and sea-foam green moons, ect) with separations only to mark unit or rank differences.

I actually thought the Crisis Suit had a lot of break points, but it is a giant model. My issue with it is that I'm not very good at painting black that is to be viewed at any distance, so while I thought it looked good close up, when I pan out, it looks like I didn't do much to the black at all x_x

Edit: I'm also on a basically two colour scheme with it being yellow and black D:

I like how in a lot of these pictures there are always Hammerheads in the far background, as if to say "Hey guys, remember me? I'm still here! Guys? Guys?".

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I like how in a lot of these pictures there are always Hammerheads in the far background, as if to say "Hey guys, remember me? I'm still here! Guys? Guys?".

Aw, guys, I'm sorry I missed with my 50+ point cannon, I'll do better next turn, I promise D:

Poor hammer heads =[ they look so sad

I want hammerheads to be awesome again. For me, its the best looking tank in the game. It was what make me a Tau fanboy all those years ago when the first pics came out. I knew I had to have an army of them.

 Tinkrr wrote:
I actually thought the Crisis Suit had a lot of break points, but it is a giant model. My issue with it is that I'm not very good at painting black that is to be viewed at any distance, so while I thought it looked good close up, when I pan out, it looks like I didn't do much to the black at all x_x

Edit: I'm also on a basically two colour scheme with it being yellow and black D:

Its specific kind of breaks that make me color it differently. My imgur album (which for some reason i never put in my siggy until now) has them.

If by black from all angles you mean the edges, try what i usually do. Jet black, get a larger than normal brush (large as you can fit in the area) and drybrush a medium gray. Its hard to see in my pics because i really only do it on the legs but it really makes the edges pop out.
I do a lot of shortcuts in my painting lol. My aim is somewhere between table-top quality and competitive painting. Awesome at a distance, still decent up close but not amazing.

And im with you guys on the hammerhead. I still use it alot since its not USELESS by any means, just not the best option. I always felt it needed to be twinlinked or have tankhunter by default (and make Longstrike give it armorbane) at the cost its at. Only real thing it has going for it is versatility. Its solid shot wrecks vehicles....when it hits lol....but alternatively its subs round can cause a ton of wounds on troops.

I just wish they made the Hammer Head not suck, either by reducing the points massively, or like giving it two Twinlinked (or even not Twin Linked) Heavy Rail Rifles instead of drones, so that it has three solid shots a turn for its points... I dunno.

I love mech armies, I played Mech in Starcraft 2 up to Diamond when it first came out, and I enjoyed the aesthetic of it so much more than 4raks FE or MMM Balls. So it just feels so weird to not have a solid tank option outside of the Skyray. The same goes with Piranha, but at least those I can find ways to make viable, although I wish they gave them a Markerlight option to function as a pseudo Tetra that gained drones at the expense of more Markerlight shots.

I'm just saying I shouldn't hate the Hammerhead, but I so do, despite loving the fortification until I see the points on it.

Well, with the range of the Hammerhead, being that far back is realistic, not like those Basilisks that always sit right behind the front lines of the IG.

Giving it heavy rail rifles on the side would be interesting. Would actually use those guns then, since railsides are effin terrible. Significantly more expensive than lascannon toting marines, not as powerful and really only slightly more survivable since just about everything that kills them (least for me) splats them.

That was GW's idea of making the hammerhead more appealing in the current dex. Railsides were op and clearly the better option. They lacked mobility but with 72" S10 AP1 twinlinked guns who the hell cared lol. afaik the hammerhead got a slight price reduction too but not enough.

The game has changed so much that anything less than 2 shots will immediately be looked down on. Single shot weapons, regardless of their stats just don't cut it in todays game. The loss of multitrackers (the ability to shoot as fast vehicles) was just the nail in the coffin for them when the last codex dropped.

However, GW did want to sell their newest big stompy robots. I have 5 hammerheads, so its not like I was going to buy another one anyway.

I just remember doing the math on it, and once you subtract the six missiles on the Skyray it's like you're valuing the Hammer Head Rail Gun at 58pts? That's just silly since it won't even get that many shots during the course of the game, and doesn't have the burst potential of the Skyray, not to mention how inferior its secondary systems are as you don't get a Markerlight platform and most of the time you won't shoot the drones or SMS on it.

At least giving it a railgun and two heavy rail rifles gives it three potential shots, that's comparable to the Predator (at least how it was in 3rd when I played it) where it could have two lasconnon side arms and one twinlinked lascannon turret for the same points as a Hammer Head, where the Hammer head has weaker side arms, but a stronger main gun at the expense of not being twinlinked.

It's just like why is the Hammerhead so massively boring when they can make it so awesome without making it overly powerful? Would it really be broken with 3 pseudo-lascannon shots at 125 points?

If by black from all angles you mean the edges, try what i usually do. Jet black, get a larger than normal brush (large as you can fit in the area) and drybrush a medium gray. Its hard to see in my pics because i really only do it on the legs but it really makes the edges pop out.
I do a lot of shortcuts in my painting lol. My aim is somewhere between table-top quality and competitive painting. Awesome at a distance, still decent up close but not amazing.

That's about where I'm at. I generally do a base coat of Abaddon Black, then mix that with some Teclis Blue to do a second coat on anything but the areas I want for black lining. After that I over the edges with some Abaddon Black mixed with white. It gives it a really nice cell shaded look when viewed close up, but looking at it from a distance makes it look too dark, but I'm also near sighted so that might be part of it.

The Hammerhead has a bigger problem than just being overcosted. It's weapon is ineffective in the current landscape. The vehicle damage table rewards medium-strength high-rof weapons. Single powerful shots that aren't D-strength are not nearly as effective.

I'm not saying that the Hammerhead should get a D-weapon, as we need less of those in the game, not more. The Hammerhead just needs to be tweaked and points cost and its Railgun improved so it's more versatile against more targets, not just trying to plink a single hull point or wound off vehicles.

Also, your standard Tri-Las Predator costs, 140 points, not 125.

Armourbane could be good. It would make it the ultimate in anti-vehicle, without powering it up too much on any other front. You might need to look at pricings, but it would make it a worthwhile choice for anti-vehicle.

 Tinkrr wrote:
I just remember doing the math on it, and once you subtract the six missiles on the Skyray it's like you're valuing the Hammer Head Rail Gun at 58pts? That's just silly since it won't even get that many shots during the course of the game, and doesn't have the burst potential of the Skyray, not to mention how inferior its secondary systems are as you don't get a Markerlight platform and most of the time you won't shoot the drones or SMS on it.

At least giving it a railgun and two heavy rail rifles gives it three potential shots, that's comparable to the Predator (at least how it was in 3rd when I played it) where it could have two lasconnon side arms and one twinlinked lascannon turret for the same points as a Hammer Head, where the Hammer head has weaker side arms, but a stronger main gun at the expense of not being twinlinked.

It's just like why is the Hammerhead so massively boring when they can make it so awesome without making it overly powerful? Would it really be broken with 3 pseudo-lascannon shots at 125 points?

When the Hammerhead first came out, it was awesome. S10 main gun, SMS system, multitracker and target lock. You got your rail shot at a prime target then the SMS just fired off at anything slightly squishy within 24" and you didn't even have to see them, all the time moving 6+ inches so you got the skimmers moving fast bonus. The tank was a beast. I personally used two hammerheads and a unit of two broadsides. Enemy armor was never an issue and the S10 was a selling point of the Tau army. It was a strength. But then as the game powercreep moved forward, more S10 started showing up in other codexs all over the place. The Hammerhead and more importantly the S10 identity of the Tau started to feel less and less unique after every other codex was released. Then the last codex was dropped and the most S10 shots you could put on the field was 3. Seriously... 3. 3 single shots on a model that was made ridiculously fragile with hull points.

Thus we have the fall of the Hammerhead. I'm hoping GW will bring them back to their full glory, but I seriously doubt it. I fully expect this new codex to be a complete disappointment for my personal chosen Tau play style.

 TheNewBlood wrote:

Also, your standard Tri-Las Predator costs, 140 points, not 125.

Sure, but the Tri-Las Predator has +1 strength on two of the shots, and -1 strength on one shot, but it's twinlinked. Additionally, it's still not that good, so shedding 15pts and giving it the jink benefits in the Tau army wouldn't really hurt.

 Jayden63 wrote:


When the Hammerhead first came out, it was awesome. S10 main gun, SMS system, multitracker and target lock. You got your rail shot at a prime target then the SMS just fired off at anything slightly squishy within 24" and you didn't even have to see them, all the time moving 6+ inches so you got the skimmers moving fast bonus. The tank was a beast. I personally used two hammerheads and a unit of two broadsides. Enemy armor was never an issue and the S10 was a selling point of the Tau army. It was a strength. But then as the game powercreep moved forward, more S10 started showing up in other codexs all over the place. The Hammerhead and more importantly the S10 identity of the Tau started to feel less and less unique after every other codex was released. Then the last codex was dropped and the most S10 shots you could put on the field was 3. Seriously... 3. 3 single shots on a model that was made ridiculously fragile with hull points.

Thus we have the fall of the Hammerhead. I'm hoping GW will bring them back to their full glory, but I seriously doubt it. I fully expect this new codex to be a complete disappointment for my personal chosen Tau play style.

I don't know, even in third edition I hated seeing one shot units, even if they sometimes could do a lot of damage, then again I have terrible luck when rolling dice, so more shots is usually better.

I think the new codex looks good so far, it provides a lot of options in the new units as I like the Ghostkeel a lot more than Broadsides, though the Stormsurge I'm indifferent about. I just hope they don't change the Skyray but make the Hammerhead cost less, or change it up in the way I wanted, though the former is far more likely than the latter. The fortification can be pretty cool, as long as the points on it don't suck.

Now I just want to see the following changes:

- Vespids being reworked to be interesting.
- Piranha given a markerlight option to be very good as opposed to marginal. It would also give you more reason to take Pathfinder "special weapon" squads as opposed to dedicated markerlights.
- Farsight Marksmen having target lock at the very least as now they don't make any sense.
- Kroot units changed to make sense (formations that get a free Krootox per unit of Kroot and then an additional free one per five Kroot in the squad you take, preferably in their own unit as opposed to being forced into the Kroot unit)
- Commander Shadowsun to be awesome.
- Stealthsuits to be moved to troops or changed to be more viable.
- Breachers to have a better Devilfish in that it cost less points.

And that's not to say that everything should just be buffed, rather that's the stuff I can see being improved. Increasing points on EWO, making Markerlights slightly weaker (-1 cover per Marker token as opposed to -all at 2), and riptide being slightly more expensive are possible changes in the negative.

I want to see hammerheads be good and railguns in general be useful.

I agree with everything your saying Tinkrr.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Armourbane could be good. It would make it the ultimate in anti-vehicle, without powering it up too much on any other front. You might need to look at pricings, but it would make it a worthwhile choice for anti-vehicle.

Armour Bane would be good, maybe a bit strong, Makng it ordnance would also work

Why not both! LOL. Imagine the tears.

The HRR should be brought up to STR 9's as well to maake them more viable. Also broadsides need relentless or an upgrade so they can be.

I could seriously see them making all Rail weapons armourbane, or ordenance and giving Broadsides slow and purposeful (i cant see those big suits running very easily otherwise id say relentless too)...
Broadsides Str9 Ordnance tank hunter, would like them crack armour 14 reliably, and if i really wana wish list, make the HRR ordance 2 id cry tears of joy

How about expensive rail rifles on Crisis Suits, am I right?

But yea, if I have good ideas when I'm not that smart, I'm sure GW could come up with just as good ideas, especially when they say they don't intend to balance things. I just don't get it.

Crisis suits that have rail rifles? i think those are called broadsides XD

Every time I've heard someone talk about the Stormsurge like 5+ people now all I hear is this as a rough approximation.

Oh it got bad rolls and died on turn two. Oh it didn't reach its full potential and died on turn 2. Oh I killed it easy with grab drops. It's very underwhelming. Or it died too fast to use its full potential power. Or I got bad rolls so I don't know how good it will actually be.

Most of them insist its very balanced because it didn't do much and died to their armies. Naturally.

All I hear is suck suck suck. :( Why did you do this to us GW. Why? All we wanted was a half decent lord of war option. I didn't need anything OP, but did I need a death sentence?

Nope.

 Girrrrrrrrrrr wrote:
Crisis suits that have rail rifles? i think those are called broadsides XD

Really, I've never seen anything like that in a tau army?

 Girrrrrrrrrrr wrote:
Crisis suits that have rail rifles? i think those are called broadsides XD

Nah, you're thinking of Heavy Rail Rifles. The regular Rail Rifles are something pathfinders can take and are identical to Plasma Rifles, except they have +6 inches of range, and Ap 1 instead of AP 2... They're the same points on the Pathfinders as a Plasma Rifle for a Crisis Suit, so just up the points a little and it should be fine.

Edit: Heck make them an upgrade to Plasma Rifles, so that you can only have one per suit. Then you'll have more triple shots, at +3 inches of range, where two are stronger, while one is still a Plasma shot. You could still get quad shots with two being beefed up versions for +5 points or whatever.

Interestingly, the GW site is down for maintenance just now. So maybe the Tidewall kit isn't completely sold out?

The problem with Tau vehicles (in general, though the Skyray is the exception due to its included seeker missiles) is that they pay so much for being skimmers that they are grossly overcosted. Compare a Devilfish vs a Rhino, for instance.

A Rhino is 11/11/10 3 HP w/ BS 4 Stormbolter, searchlight, and smoke launchers, and the ability to repair immobilized, has two fire points, but may only carry 10 models. 35 points.

A Devilfish is 12/11/10 3 HP w/ BS 3 Burst Cannon and two BS 2 gun drones. Skimmer. Can carry 12 models. 80 points.

Should the Devilfish be more than a Rhino? I think you could make an argument for that. More than double? Heck no. 5-10 points more? Yeah, I could see that. 15 points more? Now I think you're pushing it.

Now, expand that over to the Hammerhead. It's currently 125 points. If you dropped it to around 100 with included submunitions and with an Ordnance 1, TL main gun it would see play more.

But to be fair, GW rates a TL burst cannon upgrade as the same points as TL SMS as two gun drones on a Hammerhead, but charges 10 points on a Devilfish.

Better armour, survivability, movement and mobility, better weaponry, more capacity, and you want it to be only 5-10 points more?

Could you pass me whatever you are smoking, good sir? It should be at least double, considering it gets a 4+ jink and can be on your opponents deployment line turn 1.

And a hammerhead that's twin linked, comes with submunitions, and make it ordnance, and cheaper? Christ. I could see 125 and coming with submunitions being a justifiable buff, but what you are saying is 'let's make the hammerhead super amazing with its S10 AP1 gun!'

Some Tau players.

Honestly, that annoys me so much. If they made it two burst cannons it would be a legitimate trade-off, but currently, as their is literally no price difference, the SMS is just better.

Although I don't think the DF should be that cheap 65-75 points or so would be about right. Or, at the very least, enough to not make the IG players explode in anger.

Of course, FW vs Tactical Marines have been a joke, too. For 5 points you get +2 BS, +1 WS, +1 S, +1 T, +2 I, +1 Ld, and a 3+ SV. SM get a Bolt Pistol (for an assault shot and CCW), Frag and Krak grenades vs photon grenades, ATSKNF, Chapter Tactics, and Combat Squads vs Supporting Fire. Oh, and can buy upgrades and special & heavy weapons. And drop pods. The only real advantage the FW had is a +1 S gun and markerlights (which are kinda pricey and fragile, generally).

Come on guys, let's not turn this into tau vs SM.

It's a legitimate comparison. We're talking points vs points, and SM are the baseline. And honestly, yes 100-110 points is about where a Hammerhead should go. Look at a predator with a TL lascannon. It also gets searchlight, and smoke launchers included for 100 points. So the Hammerhead should be slightly more, but not much, than that with the included changes.

We got a biggie folks. Some sort of new Tau goodie from FW. What could it be? Looks like an auxiliary to me. An attentive spotter at ATT posted it.



It looks like fast attack. He also speculates it is a demiurge (just a guess from the looks of it). Also you can see either the new alien or Tau on top of the Stormsurge. Could be those Earth Caste engineers they mentioned wanting to make up top, but not the thing on the ground.

I can't wait to see what new units we get in our next FW book alleged to be admech vs tau.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Honestly, that annoys me so much. If they made it two burst cannons it would be a legitimate trade-off, but currently, as their is literally no price difference, the SMS is just better.

Although I don't think the DF should be that cheap 65-75 points or so would be about right. Or, at the very least, enough to not make the IG players explode in anger.

Yeah, but a Chimera gets a lot of stuff included in its 65 points. The Devilfish should definitely be no more than a Chimera, maybe even a bit cheaper. Yes, being a skimmer is good, but is it 15-20 points good? Vs two decent weapon systems, searchlight, smoke launchers, amphibious (admittedly meh), lasgun arrays, and two fire points (or 1 heavy weapons team)... I think that's a hard argument to make. 50ish is where the Devilfish should fall.

If these are auxiliaries I'm buying them ASAP!!

I can't make out gak in that tiny picture. It looks like crew at ease on the Stormsurge.

Look at its feet. What are those bike things on its base?

It could be anything, though one is a double-seater.


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Ah, I see now.

Ooh, I realy hope we get dermiurg. They are, by far, my favorite allied race, even more so than tau. And they are extremly technologically advanced too, heck, the tau even based their ion tech on demiurg mining lances.