Zelnik wrote: first, BOLS and natfka must be laughing themselves sick, because it looks like their claims were pretty close to 100% accurate despite the later rumors that we will get one suit, a commander and nothing else.
Umm No. BOLS and Natfka's posts this year on Tau have been crap.
New suit is designed for more dynamic posing options
Not a giant release window for Tau, Codex, Cards, 1-2 new mini products FALSE
PENDING Tau Rumors - Mar 2015
via Birds in the Trees posted by Larry Vela on Bols http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/03/40k-tau-empire-latest.html Tau Empire Release Info- New updated XV-?? battlesuit / Commander-battlesuit combo kit.
– New kit is strongly based on the current Commander suit, but not identical.
– New Kit is designed for much more dynamic assembly & posing options than the current range.
– Many new Kroot models are on ice, but may be spun off into a separate release (Codex: Kroot Mercenaries
– New Kroot miniatures have been physically sighted in various staged of the development process
– Multiple new kits are coming in what looks like a “full army (aka Harlequin sized) release.
– Many of the units from the old Kroot mercenaries list will reappear.
– The army will receive at least one large centerpiece kit that hails from the Kroot homeworld of Pech
– This new army is believed to be scheduled well past 9th Edition, so look for it at the very end of this year, or shortly thereafter.
These rumors are rated above average coming from known sources.
Natfka
Spoiler:
PENDING Tau Rumors - Aug 2015
via anonymous sources on Faeit 212
A new XV 8 Commander will be released as well.
PENDING Tau Rumors - Aug 2015
via anonymous sources on Faeit 212
The Tau Codex is coming, but no real ETA I can share at the moment. In it Tau will get 2 new suits, one larger than a riptide, another smaller than a riptide. TRUE
first, BOLS and natfka must be laughing themselves sick, because it looks like their claims were pretty close to 100% accurate despite the later rumors that we will get one suit, a commander and nothing else.
Why?
I am not aware of a single BoLS/Natfka-rumour that isn't a repeat of the Lords of Wargaming statement from June.
Here are some parting truths about Tau:
They will have a new Fire Warrior box. Two types of units can be made.
New Crisis Suits
More commander suits
New Riptide sized Suit that has large missiles
Looks like a Tau Aegis Defense line with circular weapon platforms.
Don't know about the rules, so don't ask.
Indeed, going by natfka/BoLS "exclusive" rumours, we'd be looking at Tzeentch Daemonkin/Chaos Space Marines, not Tau.
Wilson wrote: Why would they showcase conversions with new releases.... They are definately new.
Because they're just background scenery. Not everything in a pic of a new kit needs to be new, especially if its not the focus of the pic.[/quote
But they aren't man! Not at all! I've never ( that I can recall) seen a showcase of new models which has had conversions in the background of a new release showcase.
Ghaz wrote: So just because you've never seen it doesn't mean it can't happen? Do you have proof of it being an impossibility?
No it doesn't, but it does make it pretty unlikely. They don't often show conversions at all that aren't simple kitbashes or part of the Golden Daemon display type things, let alone in the new release images.
wow, awesome new insider informations, ... wait ... that's something all armies got and will get in the future 'till they decide painting guides doesn't sell well ...
(also, maybe i read it false, but they guessed the week with codex will be the 19th or not?)
wow, awesome new insider informations, ... wait ... that's something all armies got and will get in the future 'till they decide painting guides doesn't sell well ...
(also, maybe i read it false, but they guessed the week with codex will be the 19th or not?)
wow, awesome new insider informations, ... wait ... that's something all armies got and will get in the future 'till they decide painting guides doesn't sell well ...
(also, maybe i read it false, but they guessed the week with codex will be the 19th or not?)
Definetly different crisis suits looking at them but could be conversions or could be new suits might even be upcoming FW stuff guess we'll see in a month. I'm just glad the sigma rinse releases are ending tbh.
daemonish wrote: Definetly different crisis suits looking at them but could be conversions or could be new suits might even be upcoming FW stuff guess we'll see in a month. I'm just glad the sigma rinse releases are ending tbh.
i think its just a small break, this some box and one other thing as im aware
The title of the thread is wrong, there's no new Pathfinders. New Fire Warriors or another new infantry, but the current Pathfinders are shown in the pictures.
ImAGeek wrote: The title of the thread is wrong, there's no new Pathfinders. New Fire Warriors or another new infantry, but the current Pathfinders are shown in the pictures.
Liking the new troops. Interesting that none of them seem to have the long rifles. Makes me wonder if they are a new unit rather than just updated Fire Warriors.
Love the look of that Ghostkeel.
The Stormsurge is... ok? The missile pods look a bit stupid with how small they are compared to the absurd size of... well every other part of the model (besides the head). If the missile mods were 1.5-2x bigger they would look less stupid.
Yeah this is happening just before my birthday like a few days. So still month of the Tau is my bday month. It's like fate when I picked them as my first army.
I'm liking the new Tau stuff. But GW can't seem to figure out what to do these days without going bigger! Each new release seems to have bigger models than the last. I guess they wanted to have something to challenge Imperial Knights more effectively, but I can't imagine what they'll do next time!
The new Tau suit doesn't really look bad. It doesn't look like a mobile suit, it looks like a mobile artillery piece on legs. Which is what it's meant to be.
The Tau's worst-designed stuff are still their GW aircraft (the FW ones look great).
Harriticus wrote: The new Tau suit doesn't really look bad. It doesn't look like a mobile suit, it looks like a mobile artillery piece on legs. Which is what it's meant to be.
The Tau's worst-designed stuff are still their GW aircraft (the FW ones look great).
How do you make the MAC II Monster cooler? It transforms!
Although, the shuttle version is very similar in appearance to a hammerhead/devilfish. I certainly would not mind a tau battlesuit that could do that, or taking a hammerhead kit and kitbashing it into a transforming K-139.
How do you make the MAC II Monster cooler? It transforms!
Although, the shuttle version is very similar in appearance to a hammerhead/devilfish. I certainly would not mind a tau battlesuit that could do that, or taking a hammerhead kit and kitbashing it into a transforming K-139.
I actually love both of the new suits. The Stormsurge looks like a mobile artillery battery, which makes perfect sense for the Tau at this point. They already have a shock and awe frontline battlesuit in the Riptide, they don't need another. What they do need is a backfield artillery force, which they really don't have. The Hammerhead is their go to anti-tank vehicle, the Sky Ray is their AA option. Broadsides are probably the closest they have to artillery units, but even those are more pinpoint targeting than area saturation. The Stormsurge, at least from what I am gathering from it's model, fills the same role as the Basilisk or Medusa does for IG; a large scale artillery unit meant to bombard an area with so much firepower nothing is left standing. In that light, the massive missile pods and lack of arms makes sense. If the Stormsurge gets in CC, its already failed its job. (Note that this is all based on speculation from the actual model and what the current Tau codex is lacking in terms of military units).
The Ghostkeel, I actually really like the model. I don't see what everyone is saying about the head being mis-sized, to me it works perfectly, gives it a very underwater diving suit look. Maybe it's just the paint scheme that's throwing people off, since the head is red while the rest of the body is white? Or maybe I'm just insane, who knows. But this suit is by far my favorite Tau model in terms of looks, I can't wait to get my hands on one. (Hopefully the rules are as good as the model!)
Harriticus wrote: The new Tau suit doesn't really look bad. It doesn't look like a mobile suit, it looks like a mobile artillery piece on legs. Which is what it's meant to be.
The Tau's worst-designed stuff are still their GW aircraft (the FW ones look great).
Alright, here's a question, how does the stormsurge melee attacks things that are too big to step on? Does it round house kick them, or merely headbutt them?
Co'tor Shas wrote: Alright, here's a question, how does the stormsurge melee attacks things that are too big to step on? Does it round house kick them, ore merely headbutt them?
Point blank firing of the missiles, before the warheads and tracking systems can engage.
Harriticus wrote: The new Tau suit doesn't really look bad. It doesn't look like a mobile suit, it looks like a mobile artillery piece on legs. Which is what it's meant to be.
The Tau's worst-designed stuff are still their GW aircraft (the FW ones look great).
But why put that much firepower on legs.
what benefits could possibly come of it.
The benefit is MC/GMC status.
I was going to say "powerful squats," but this is definitely the real reason.
If they were going to do a stupid missile arms giant suit, they should have put it on a hover tank, like some of the older MS:Gundam stuff, before everything got silly Gatling gun nipples.
By the way, a little birdie told me that the giant missile arms pod is going to be a bank of 30x seeker missiles.
Spoiler:
By little birdie I mean bullcrap I made up to drive the rumor mill crazy with people who don't read whole posts.
1. Some sort of Jetpack/Carbine troops I predicted awhile ago.
2. Some sort of Pulse Carbine/Shotgun and Katana troops.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
maceria wrote: If they were going to do a stupid missile arms giant suit, they should have put it on a hover tank, like some of the older MS:Gundam stuff, before everything got silly Gatling gun nipples.
By the way, a little birdie told me that the giant missile arms pod is going to be a bank of 30x seeker missiles.
Spoiler:
By little birdie I mean bullcrap I made up to drive the rumor mill crazy with people who don't read whole posts.
I've never really cared for birdies or Varis, I'm more of a Littlefinger fan.
whoah - that's bigger than I thought. I was hoping it about the size of a riptide.
Speaking of which, has anyone ever considered using the Crimson Typhoon from Pacific Rim as a Farside Enclave riptide? Perhaps armed with swords in the two right hands?
Just a few things I wanted to post here so others could observer (and because ATT's mods hate free conversation more than North Korea), I spent some time looking carefully at the picture of the presumptive 'new' crisis suits and the Master-kitbashes found in the Farsight Enclaves book.
Firstly:Goddamnit they both look amazing, but IF the ones in the background of the leaked pics we have received are NOT new, they were probably made by the same guy, but not at the same time.
Secondly: I will probably have to replace all my crisis suits because of this. Goodbye wallet.
I am actually leaning towards them being their own new kit, here are my reasonings behind this.
Firstly, look closely at the picture of the Stormsurge, in the background you can see a Crisis Suit with what looks like two fusion blasters, primarily white paint scheme with a bright red right antennae. Two things jump out at me from this mini, first is the large "firewarrior" like shoulder armor on the left arm. This, to me, is just too clean(and more importantly, uniform) to be a kitbash, and the sort of thing that would nicely fit them in with the fire warrior aesthetic.
Second thing of note is the mystery system on his shoulder. No current bit looks like this AND it looks too clean (yes, i know, blurry image), to be a kitbash.
IF they are real though, they were heavily influenced by the FSE codex suits, right down to the paint scheme. I am personally willing to be optimistic, considering how badly we need a new crisis suit kit.
Zelnik wrote: Just a few things I wanted to post here so others could observer (and because ATT's mods hate free conversation more than North Korea), I spent some time looking carefully at the picture of the presumptive 'new' crisis suits and the Master-kitbashes found in the Farsight Enclaves book.
Firstly:Goddamnit they both look amazing, but IF the ones in the background of the leaked pics we have received are NOT new, they were probably made by the same guy, but not at the same time.
Secondly: I will probably have to replace all my crisis suits because of this. Goodbye wallet.
I am actually leaning towards them being their own new kit, here are my reasonings behind this.
Firstly, look closely at the picture of the Stormsurge, in the background you can see a Crisis Suit with what looks like two fusion blasters, primarily white paint scheme with a bright red right antennae. Two things jump out at me from this mini, first is the large "firewarrior" like shoulder armor on the left arm. This, to me, is just too clean(and more importantly, uniform) to be a kitbash, and the sort of thing that would nicely fit them in with the fire warrior aesthetic.
Second thing of note is the mystery system on his shoulder. No current bit looks like this AND it looks too clean (yes, i know, blurry image), to be a kitbash.
IF they are real though, they were heavily influenced by the FSE codex suits, right down to the paint scheme. I am personally willing to be optimistic, considering how badly we need a new crisis suit kit.
Welcome brother. Seriously feth those ATT guys. Dumb as gak and don't see the value of you know. Talking. Farsight Enclaves where you can speak free and yet still be dedicated to the GG.
Stormonu wrote: whoah - that's bigger than I thought. I was hoping it about the size of a riptide.
Speaking of which, has anyone ever considered using the Crimson Typhoon from Pacific Rim as a Farside Enclave riptide? Perhaps armed with swords in the two right hands?
That's the Yamato (Arcadia, now) VB-6. It's bigger than the Bandai one that was posted earlier. You can tell it apart at a glance because the Yamato one has a darker color scheme and no nose art. Bandai's version probably is about the size of a Riptide though.
Argh, the question about new Crisis Suits is tearing me apart. It's what will decide if I start a Tau army or not.
I really love the concept of suits, but the current Crisis Suits are just ugly.. and these new models are gorgeous, so I really hope they make new models for the poor Crisis Suits as well.
alleus wrote: Argh, the question about new Crisis Suits is tearing me apart. It's what will decide if I start a Tau army or not.
I really love the concept of suits, but the current Crisis Suits are just ugly.. and these new models are gorgeous, so I really hope they make new models for the poor Crisis Suits as well.
Me too. New Crisis suits is the make and break for me. I don't even hate the current ones, but I don't want to use the one pose for a whole army, and I can't be bothered/don't have the skill to convert every one.
Looking at the Stormsurge, it does look like it is built on top of a Riptide, though the physical design seems to be fluff-wise instead of an actual model conversion sprew, similar to how old Broadsides were retrofitted Crisis Suits.
Don't have access to highlight the relevant pictures, but the key to me on those suits in the background is that the panels/vents on the chest seem to be a slightly different size and place and the central ridge seems larger and more sculpted (reminiscent of the Riptide and XV8-09).
Whilst I could see someone converting the hips and shoulder pads, I can't imagine someone going to the effort of subtly resculpting the entire chest.
Nilok wrote: Looking at the Stormsurge, it does look like it is built on top of a Riptide, though the physical design seems to be fluff-wise instead of an actual model conversion sprew, similar to how old Broadsides were retrofitted Crisis Suits.
I think it is just using the standard riptide body as a base. To me it looks like the chest for the stormsurge will be a few pieces that are built over the original riptide body. Notice how there are holes in this new chest piece to fit the vents for the reactors, which are exactly where the riptides ones normally are. Just above the waist you can also see pieces of the original riptide body before they are covered up by the new larger chest piece.
But I really hope the stormsurge has its own box, as I already have three standard riptides and would feel bad getting a new box just for an additional sprue. (Curse you, Imperial Knights!)
alleus wrote: Argh, the question about new Crisis Suits is tearing me apart. It's what will decide if I start a Tau army or not.
I really love the concept of suits, but the current Crisis Suits are just ugly.. and these new models are gorgeous, so I really hope they make new models for the poor Crisis Suits as well.
Looks like new crisis suits as well. Pretty similar to the old design (yay!) but with a waist joint and armor plate over the left shoulder.
krazynadechukr wrote: Here is a closer look at new troops packs.... It looks like the are jump troops with a shotty style weapon!
Thanks for that super clear picture, clearly there can be no other explanation
Edit: on a serious note though, I have been curious as to why everyone assumes they are normal firewarriors replacements. They could be a new troop, and if those are a booster of some sort I think it would be cooler if they a grav shoot so they can be Orca drops ie deepstrike. I am highly doubtful they will be jetpack infantry though, no more riding in devil fish if that were the case.
Some sort of carbine equipped drop troop would be awesome. I tend to use carbines anyway, so I wouldn't have to change my tactics much, just fewer of them would die on the way.
krazynadechukr wrote: Here is a closer look at new troops packs.... It looks like the are jump troops with a shotty style weapon!
Thanks for that super clear picture, clearly there can be no other explanation
Edit: on a serious note though, I have been curious as to why everyone assumes they are normal firewarriors replacements. They could be a new troop, and if those are a booster of some sort I think it would be cooler if they a grav shoot so they can be Orca drops ie deepstrike. I am highly doubtful they will be jetpack infantry though, no more riding in devil fish if that were the case.
It'd be aswsome to have a Tau Drop Troop Army (like Elysian style)! I'd be so back into 40k so fast!
krazynadechukr wrote: Here is a closer look at new troops packs.... It looks like the are jump troops with a shotty style weapon!
Thanks for that super clear picture, clearly there can be no other explanation
Edit: on a serious note though, I have been curious as to why everyone assumes they are normal firewarriors replacements. They could be a new troop, and if those are a booster of some sort I think it would be cooler if they a grav shoot so they can be Orca drops ie deepstrike. I am highly doubtful they will be jetpack infantry though, no more riding in devil fish if that were the case.
It'd be aswsome to have a Tau Drop Troop Army (like Elysian style)! I'd be so back into 40k so fast!
Very much so. If this is true I might just loose my mind with awesomeness! No proof though. We can only hope :-)
krazynadechukr wrote: Here is a closer look at new troops packs.... It looks like the are jump troops with a shotty style weapon!
Thanks for that super clear picture, clearly there can be no other explanation
Edit: on a serious note though, I have been curious as to why everyone assumes they are normal firewarriors replacements. They could be a new troop, and if those are a booster of some sort I think it would be cooler if they a grav shoot so they can be Orca drops ie deepstrike. I am highly doubtful they will be jetpack infantry though, no more riding in devil fish if that were the case.
It'd be aswsome to have a Tau Drop Troop Army (like Elysian style)! I'd be so back into 40k so fast!
Very much so. If this is true I might just loose my mind with awesomeness! No proof though. We can only hope :-)
Yeah, here is hoping! I just noticed the "exhaust" (if that is what it is) in the backpack is similar to the devilfish engine exhaust....
Some new kind of jump troops for Tau would definitely help their mobility problem, as well as opening up the opportunity for null-deployment lists with formations and detachment bonuses.
One thing to keep in mind is that we are seeing a white dwarf that is like 3 weeks out from release. The week before it may focus on the potentially new suits - which is why they are in the background of these shots.
I agree that it would be very odd to be using heavily converted suits in the same picture as new products.
angelofvengeance wrote: I thought Tau had Vespid for their jump troops? Are they not any good?
I'm sorry, I lol'd so hard at this. I can't even remember when the last time I saw a Tau player using vespid was... I think I encountered one squad in like, 2008 or something...lol. Of course, they didn't really do much of anything, except die.
angelofvengeance wrote: I thought Tau had Vespid for their jump troops? Are they not any good?
They were never good.
also finecast.
Never played as Tau. The only thing I use Tau (heads mainly) for are base decorations, when I murder my buddy's army with Necrons and he doesn't use them either.
I'd honestly be surprised if vespids are still in the codex this time. If kroot are on the chopping block, there's no way vespids are sticking around. At the very least they'd have to make a new kit, as they're finecast.
I don't think that the backpack is a jump pack. If you look at the current pack that the fire warriors wear, you'll see two magazines for the pulse rifle/carbine mounted on it, which is what it looks like is on the new packs as well.
What IS new about the packs are the antennae sticking up off of them, though. Still, I'm hesitant to say that they are a jump infantry, as that pretty much seems to be a battlesuit role, and not an infantry role.
I could see them going the "Pariah" route with the Vespids, wherein they discontinue the Vespids as a unit with rules/models, but introduce a new Tau unit with new models that fill the same exact role, and then say "Vespids are gone, but you can use your old Vespid models as this new model instead".
I wouldn't be a fan of them removing the Kroot/Vespids from the codex. The Taus use of alien auxiliaries was, at the time of their inception, central to the fluff. The reasoning for renaming the Codex to "Tau Empire" was to emphasize the fact that they were an empire, that is a collection of species led by the Tau. They also had a lot of concepts for both Kroot and Vespid units that never came to be that would make for some cool new kits.
Then again, both the Kroot and Vespids originally started out as concepts for new standalone armies alongside the Tau, the studio picked the Tau but decided to incorporate the Kroot as an auxiliary force within the fluff, reasoning that if the Tau range did well, they could add more races to the faction and use them as a repository for all the concepts the studio kicked around for cool xenos species that never really got off the ground or didnt have enough background to flesh out a full codex for, etc. Vespids were added later to test the waters (5th ed. codex I believe) as they were one of the other faction concepts that were initially cut, and similarly to the kroot the studio had concepts for a few units.
It might be that now, with the rise of the subcodecies, the studio is opting to make Tau a purist faction, and will release subcodecies for Kroot, Vespids, etc. at a later point.
Would be interesting to see if Kroot & Vespid are out (maybe relegated to some sort of Auxiliaries mini-dex) and we did get NEW F-Warriors to fill those roles. I know it's wishful thinking as Crisis/Stealth are kinda the jump infantry, but a true jump infantry option would be cool ...
or they could just give FW the ability to JSJ ... LOL
spectreoneone wrote: I don't think that the backpack is a jump pack. If you look at the current pack that the fire warriors wear, you'll see two magazines for the pulse rifle/carbine mounted on it, which is what it looks like is on the new packs as well.
What IS new about the packs are the antennae sticking up off of them, though. Still, I'm hesitant to say that they are a jump infantry, as that pretty much seems to be a battlesuit role, and not an infantry role.
There is a difference in the helmet, weapons, and backpack. Only time will tell what these troops are. The packs might be reskulpted backpacks, or they might be jump packs. Who knows right now. My hope is jetpacks & paint these up in a Boba Fett color scheme!
I doubt that it's anything more than gubbins. Things to make the new warriors have more detail, because frankly, the old fire warriors utterly lacked it.
So it is official that Kroot Mercenaries rumours were a scam and just click-bait and that the original poster of that rumour should be shot and perma banned?
Gamgee wrote: Wait until January-Feb, but yea 95% dead. Lol.
Please don't muddy the waters. To the previous poster, it is simply an unsubstantiated rumor. While still possible, we won't know either until the codex is fully leaked OR until Gw start releasing pics of Kroot and Vespid in the same pic as the new models.
I don't know German but there are enough familiar words in that article to lead me to believe that it has some sort of deflector field.
It says something along the line of 'The supremacy armour is the pinnacle of earth cast innovation and that it is one of the strongest weapons platforms on the battlefield. With such an arsenal, it can disrupt even the deflector shields of a battle titan or an entire column of vehicles and its even bigger than an Imperial Knight! Below you can see it compared to a Crisis Battlesuit.'
Zelnik wrote: A MUCH better pic of the Tau'Nar just cropped up. A lot of my fears of it "not fitting in" just were resolved.
I don't know German but there are enough familiar words in that article to lead me to believe that it has some sort of deflector field.
Weeeeeelll...
The poster on Advanced Tau Tactica who first broke the name and basic details of the Supremacy Armor made a mention of one of the FW guys specifically stating that it has a Nova Reactor--but given the size of the thing, it's so heavily armored that it can function as "always on" rather than having to be charged.
Yo, for the people talking about crisis suits not being new or being new, and using the fact they're in the background as an argument, isn't it possible the stuff being showcased in the front are the new units as apposed to the brand spanking new models?
Jaxler wrote: Yo, for the people talking about crisis suits not being new or being new, and using the fact they're in the background as an argument, isn't it possible the stuff being showcased in the front are the new units as apposed to the brand spanking new models?
It's all new stuff in the Visions cover.
The only reason there's some debate is because for whatever reason someone thought they were pieces that are present in the Farsight Enclaves book, which were converted by a sculptor at GW and then used as the basis for the new Broadside redesign.
Jaxler wrote: Yo, for the people talking about crisis suits not being new or being new, and using the fact they're in the background as an argument, isn't it possible the stuff being showcased in the front are the new units as apposed to the brand spanking new models?
aren't most of those pictures from a visions which is different from a WD paper advertisement?
Jaxler wrote: Yo, for the people talking about crisis suits not being new or being new, and using the fact they're in the background as an argument, isn't it possible the stuff being showcased in the front are the new units as apposed to the brand spanking new models?
aren't most of those pictures from a visions which is different from a WD paper advertisement?
Not completely sure what you mean but visions is still very much an advertisement, a large chunk of it is still photos of the new releases.
Jaxler wrote: Yo, for the people talking about crisis suits not being new or being new, and using the fact they're in the background as an argument, isn't it possible the stuff being showcased in the front are the new units as apposed to the brand spanking new models?
aren't most of those pictures from a visions which is different from a WD paper advertisement?
Not completely sure what you mean but visions is still very much an advertisement, a large chunk of it is still photos of the new releases.
Why do you think GW publishes Warhammer: Visions? It's a means of advertising their models and showing off the 'Eavy Metal team (not that I'm dissing their painters, as they're a lot better than I could ever be). White Dwarf is also an ad rag, but gets less pretty pictures and more crappy articles.
Talys wrote: There is a great picture of the Tau'Nar in this week's WD. It looks terrific. If anyone wants, I'll take a quick snap of it with my point 'n shoot.
Only if you make the picture super blurry, cropped incorrectly and from the wrong angle.
Talys wrote: There is a great picture of the Tau'Nar in this week's WD. It looks terrific. If anyone wants, I'll take a quick snap of it with my point 'n shoot.
Talys wrote: There is a great picture of the Tau'Nar in this week's WD. It looks terrific. If anyone wants, I'll take a quick snap of it with my point 'n shoot.
We're talking about the new white dwarf pics. Reposting those is nice but it's like watching a dirty movie a second time. You already know the "plot" and it isn't as special the second time around.
Here you go, so's you don't have to watch reruns of dirty movies. I actually really like the pic; the comparison to the XV81 is also cool.
"Note: XV81 Crisis Battlesuit is included for scale purposes only." Man. If anyone actually asked, the right response would be... you're gonna buy a KX139? Suuuure, have a free XV81 on the house!!
Also, "The result of the Tau Earth caste scientists' innovation..." Never really followed Tau fluff much, so not sure what this is a reference to. But whoever those Earth caste scientists are, they sure learned from the Earthlings (or Martians?) that if it's good, making it bigger is better, and making REALLY bigger, well, that's bestest. Innovation at its finest!!
krazynadechukr wrote: Here is a closer look at new troops packs.... It looks like the are jump troops with a shotty style weapon!
Thanks for that super clear picture, clearly there can be no other explanation
Edit: on a serious note though, I have been curious as to why everyone assumes they are normal firewarriors replacements. They could be a new troop, and if those are a booster of some sort I think it would be cooler if they a grav shoot so they can be Orca drops ie deepstrike. I am highly doubtful they will be jetpack infantry though, no more riding in devil fish if that were the case.
My guess is they are pathfinders and now have a jet pack upgrade.
That big new battlesuit sure is cool, but it's way outside my price range! The other rumored new Tau stuff is pretty exciting as well, makes me glad I haven't spent much money on Tau yet (that may very well change once the new stuff comes out).
Talys wrote: Here you go, so's you don't have to watch reruns of dirty movies. I actually really like the pic; the comparison to the XV81 is also cool.
Pardon - is this from WD 86 then? Trying to locate my own copy...
Talys wrote: Here you go, so's you don't have to watch reruns of dirty movies. I actually really like the pic; the comparison to the XV81 is also cool.
Pardon - is this from WD 86 then? Trying to locate my own copy...
If that's in the latest white dwarf doesn't that mean it's all but confirmed to be up for preorder later tonight? That, combined with it 'accidentally' being put up earlier this week before being shut down, seem to point to the Tau gaining some BIG firepower before their new codex
krazynadechukr wrote: Here is a closer look at new troops packs.... It looks like the are jump troops with a shotty style weapon!
Thanks for that super clear picture, clearly there can be no other explanation
Edit: on a serious note though, I have been curious as to why everyone assumes they are normal firewarriors replacements. They could be a new troop, and if those are a booster of some sort I think it would be cooler if they a grav shoot so they can be Orca drops ie deepstrike. I am highly doubtful they will be jetpack infantry though, no more riding in devil fish if that were the case.
My guess is they are pathfinders and now have a jet pack upgrade.
The FireWarrior sprue is getting OLD (14 years?). Its in the old inefficient neatly laid out style; and there are numerous parts where the casting is sub-par compared to todays offerings (particularly on the leg plates). It seems like a prime candidate for recasting/recutting.
The new models have the armor style of Fire Warriors - backbacks, full/short helmets, full chestplate, shoulderplate - and are pictured next to the current relatively new (and quite excellent) pathfinder models. They are definitely not pathfinders.
My money is on re-cut firewarriors, possibly a dual kit with some kind of 'commando' warriors.
krazynadechukr wrote: Here is a closer look at new troops packs.... It looks like the are jump troops with a shotty style weapon!
Thanks for that super clear picture, clearly there can be no other explanation
Edit: on a serious note though, I have been curious as to why everyone assumes they are normal firewarriors replacements. They could be a new troop, and if those are a booster of some sort I think it would be cooler if they a grav shoot so they can be Orca drops ie deepstrike. I am highly doubtful they will be jetpack infantry though, no more riding in devil fish if that were the case.
My guess is they are pathfinders and now have a jet pack upgrade.
The FireWarrior sprue is getting OLD (14 years?). Its in the old inefficient neatly laid out style; and there are numerous parts where the casting is sub-par compared to todays offerings (particularly on the leg plates). It seems like a prime candidate for recasting/recutting.
The new models have the armor style of Fire Warriors - backbacks, full/short helmets, full chestplate, shoulderplate - and are pictured next to the current relatively new (and quite excellent) pathfinder models. They are definitely not pathfinders.
My money is on re-cut firewarriors, possibly a dual kit with some kind of 'commando' warriors.
If this is a dual kit, hopefully this will be a skitarrii vanguard/rangers situation with the kit having two different styles of heads. I' mn ot a fan of the heads we've been shown and I'm really hoping for heads in the style we currently have
Getting old style heads should not really be a problem, should be plenty of old kits/bit floating around as a lot of people prolly have more firewarriors than they have use for, I know I have. Bought a battleforce to start with, then another right before they changed it and I have a single box of warriors, even though I only use like 12-20 max in a game).
Only one strength D shot? Granted its a blast, but when fighting titans how do we see this faring?
It seems more like a wide suppression mech than an anti-titan/large thing mech which is the only justifiable use of something so big. I'm not familiar with titan rules though so it's hard to say how good this thing would be at taking them down.
Edit
It seems more Knight level than Titan level.
Edit
In the far future we'll get a true Tau Titan and on that day FW will have my money. This seems like a half step if that was their goal.
A further look into some rules of the regular IK and yeah this thing is insane compared to them. Accurate rendition of whats going to happen to your army.
It's not that ridiculous. It has one main weapon system on the top, two secondary on the arms, and what is basically a point defence system on the chest. Each system is made up of multiple guns but it's not really different to a knight with a gun on each arm, missiles on its carapace and a point defence heavy stubber.
The weapons are strong, especially for 600 points, but what makes the deal is...Gargantuan Creature. With T9 W10. And the D absorbing shield...it seems unbreakable Oo
One question though to the point defense weapons... on the model, both the SMS and the BC are twin linked, rules wise only the BC is. Error or discrepancy between modellers and rules writers?
agnosto wrote: How many pts is a warhounds with its multiple large blast D shots?
The main issue is that it can strip off any hull points/void shields with it's other weapons then fire the D weapon, whilst almost certainly surviving a turn to get another round of shooting on it.
Someone needs to math hammer 3 of these things vs a warlord, seriously, I think the warlord may be in trouble.
Wonderwolf wrote:So is "No Cover Saves" the same rule as "Ignores Cover"? Or some fancy FW-variant?
Tombard wrote:One question though to the point defense weapons... on the model, both the SMS and the BC are twin linked, rules wise only the BC is. Error or discrepancy between modellers and rules writers?
I believe FW released the rules in a rush to get people playing with it right now. Both things you pointed seems that they didn't re-cheked it. No reason to not have 2 TLSMS, while the barrage clearly ignores cover
Gamgee wrote:So what do people think of the rules?
Only one strength D shot? Granted its a blast, but when fighting titans how do we see this faring?
It seems more like a wide suppression mech than an anti-titan/large thing mech which is the only justifiable use of something so big. I'm not familiar with titan rules though so it's hard to say how good this thing would be at taking them down.
Edit
It seems more Knight level than Titan level.
Edit
In the far future we'll get a true Tau Titan and on that day FW will have my money. This seems like a half step if that was their goal.
I agree with you. Was expecting much more firepower and SHW chassis, not GMC. The D weapon should be 3 S: D large blasts, and the arm weapons should have blast fire modes as well.
It's very resistent, but like the riptide is more a nuisance than a real danger to the enemy (which Crisis and Broadsides still remain)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
agnosto wrote:How many pts is a warhounds with its multiple large blast D shots?
same as base. the weapons are free to exchange.
endlesswaltz123 wrote:
agnosto wrote: How many pts is a warhounds with its multiple large blast D shots?
The main issue is that it can strip off any hull points/void shields with it's other weapons then fire the D weapon, whilst almost certainly surviving a turn to get another round of shooting on it.
Someone needs to math hammer 3 of these things vs a warlord, seriously, I think the warlord may be in trouble.
Not at all. Warlords have void shields, 30 HP, S: D ranged weapons and more weapons. It would laugh at the Tau'nar.
Really, don't know how people are so surprised. A Warhound Titan is 150p more, sporting:
- 2 void shields
- AV 14/13/12 (immune to poison, morale, sniper, fleshbane, and GRAV)
- 9 HP - BS 4
- 2 S: D blast weapons
- kill nearby things when destroyed
- can't be locked in combat
- immune to haywire and maledictions
A GMC has only FnP and immunity to armourbane, while not suffering haywire and melta extra effects. 600p is quite okay for it. If it costed 500 or less, I'd agree with it being too cheap.
Just did a lil' bit of math with our local IG player, who thought that 15 Veteran Lascannons from a full unit of Heavy Weapon Teams should be a good counter... Not counting Cover, they would hit 2 to 3 hits a turn... Whereafter their ranks would be thinned quickly by the Tau'nar's weapons.
This [MOD EDIT - Do NOT 'workaround' the Expletive Filter - Alpharius] thing right here.
Hmm.. got a rule question about this thing. Look at this:
"When a model with a barrier shield is struck by a Destroyer attack and
a ‘Deathblow’ result occurs, the amount of wounds inflicted is halved but the shield stops
working until the start of the controlling player’s next turn."
Does this mean that the unvul-save is completely gone if a "Deathblow" result occurs, or just the "anti-D" bonus? As it's worded I would say the shield is gone altogether until the next turn, which would leave it very vurnerable to AP2 or better weapons in case you get a solid D hit in first.
Also, have you guy's noticed that the paint-job is always red highlights (possibly Vior'la) on white? Maybe something fluff related i the new codex perhaps?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
alleus wrote: Hmm.. got a rule question about this thing. Look at this:
"When a model with a barrier shield is struck by a Destroyer attack and
a ‘Deathblow’ result occurs, the amount of wounds inflicted is halved but the shield stops
working until the start of the controlling player’s next turn."
Does this mean that the unvul-save is completely gone if a "Deathblow" result occurs, or just the "anti-D" bonus? As it's worded I would say the shield is gone altogether until the next turn, which would leave it very vurnerable to AP2 or better weapons in case you get a solid D hit in first.
I'd say both, it seems to be a bit like a tau void shield, but it's a invuln because tau actually use cohesive shields, unlike the imperium who use energy fields.
Co'tor Shas wrote: Also, have you guy's noticed that the paint-job is always red highlights (possibly Vior'la) on white? Maybe something fluff related i the new codex perhaps?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
alleus wrote: Hmm.. got a rule question about this thing. Look at this:
"When a model with a barrier shield is struck by a Destroyer attack and
a ‘Deathblow’ result occurs, the amount of wounds inflicted is halved but the shield stops
working until the start of the controlling player’s next turn."
Does this mean that the unvul-save is completely gone if a "Deathblow" result occurs, or just the "anti-D" bonus? As it's worded I would say the shield is gone altogether until the next turn, which would leave it very vurnerable to AP2 or better weapons in case you get a solid D hit in first.
I'd say both, it seems to be a bit like a tau void shield, but it's a invuln because tau actually use cohesive shields, unlike the imperium who use energy fields.
That'd be my assumption as well, that the shield is just completely gone (overloaded) until it has time to recharge, reboot, whatever.
Co'tor Shas wrote: Also, have you guy's noticed that the paint-job is always red highlights (possibly Vior'la) on white? Maybe something fluff related i the new codex perhaps?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
alleus wrote: Hmm.. got a rule question about this thing. Look at this:
"When a model with a barrier shield is struck by a Destroyer attack and
a ‘Deathblow’ result occurs, the amount of wounds inflicted is halved but the shield stops
working until the start of the controlling player’s next turn."
Does this mean that the unvul-save is completely gone if a "Deathblow" result occurs, or just the "anti-D" bonus? As it's worded I would say the shield is gone altogether until the next turn, which would leave it very vurnerable to AP2 or better weapons in case you get a solid D hit in first.
I'd say both, it seems to be a bit like a tau void shield, but it's a invuln because tau actually use cohesive shields, unlike the imperium who use energy fields.
That'd be my assumption as well, that the shield is just completely gone (overloaded) until it has time to recharge, reboot, whatever.
So if a Tau'Nar was hit four times by a Warhound Titan's D-Pie Plates and suffered 4 Deathblows, would the attacks be resolved simultaneously and the shield go down after all 4 Death Blows are halved?
Co'tor Shas wrote: Also, have you guy's noticed that the paint-job is always red highlights (possibly Vior'la) on white? Maybe something fluff related i the new codex perhaps?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
alleus wrote: Hmm.. got a rule question about this thing. Look at this:
"When a model with a barrier shield is struck by a Destroyer attack and
a ‘Deathblow’ result occurs, the amount of wounds inflicted is halved but the shield stops
working until the start of the controlling player’s next turn."
Does this mean that the unvul-save is completely gone if a "Deathblow" result occurs, or just the "anti-D" bonus? As it's worded I would say the shield is gone altogether until the next turn, which would leave it very vurnerable to AP2 or better weapons in case you get a solid D hit in first.
I'd say both, it seems to be a bit like a tau void shield, but it's a invuln because tau actually use cohesive shields, unlike the imperium who use energy fields.
That'd be my assumption as well, that the shield is just completely gone (overloaded) until it has time to recharge, reboot, whatever.
So if a Tau'Nar was hit four times by a Warhound Titan's D-Pie Plates and suffered 4 Deathblows, would the attacks be resolved simultaneously and the shield go down after all 4 Death Blows are halved?
Good question. I can't recall if there are rules for multiple weapon hits/effects. My gut (which is often wrong unless pizza is involved) tells me that you'd split the shots between the weapons. 2 shots from weapon one are both deathblows so you'd get the 1/2 for those but not for the second weapon. On the other hand, I can see Jeffar's argument that all shooting is simultaneous so any deathblows from the same unit/model would be halved but if you hit it later in the shooting phase with something else and get a deathblow, the 1/2 wouldn't apply.
Gonna post the same thing here that I did in the Forge World thread.
Honestly this thing seems pretty fair (for a Titan at least) in terms of power for it's points cost.
T9 is actually easier to wound than AV14 (AV14 needs a minimum of S8 to glance, while T9 needs S6 I think?). Yeah it has 10 wounds, but that seems in line with the rest of the Titans available. The 2+ isn't a big deal, if you're hitting a Titan with a sub AP2 weapon, either something has gone horribly wrong or you're doing it wrong. The GC status plus the invul does make it pretty survivable, but nothing insane, a 4++ followed by FNP is certainly not unheard of in normal 40k.
The big thing I think people might be missing is that it's a GC, meaning it can only shoot 2 of it's weapons at a time, right? So, in an average turn of shooting against a heavy target, it's only shooting the equivalent of 3 Lascannons and a single D blast. Coming from a 600pt Titan, that is not a lot of firepower at all. Yeah, this guy will wreck hordes and SM, but Tau have always been able to do that, Tau aren't getting new capabilities, just a new tool to do the things they already could.
Is the KX139 good? Of course it is, never gonna deny that. Is it OP? Right now, without any time at the table with it, I'm gonna say no. It's pretty survivable, and can put out some heavy firepower depending on the circumstances, but as long as you are going after it with proper anti-Titan/GC weaponry and units (S D, Fleshbane, S8+, AP2, Grav, etc.) I don't see this guy running train on your army.
Additional thoughts:
The KX139 seems to suffer from the opposite problem every other Tau unit does; It has awesome survivability, but limited firepower, while every other Tau has awesome firepower, but limited survivability. Seems to me that this thing was meant to provide board presence, the immovable rock at the center of the Tau line. Which actually fits in perfectly with it's fluff (which I actually do like, it makes a lot of sense for this big guy to be limited to strictly defensive positions on conquered worlds to hold the line until reinforcements arrive). Overall I like it. I do wish it had some better anti-Titan/SH/GC capabilities, but I am satisfied with what we got. A good unit that will certainly see field time, but not another OP mess.
Not sure what you're smoking if you think this is just mediocre. This suit is outrageously good.
Come on. 600 points for an incredibly survivable platform. 10 wounds at T9, 2+, 4++, 5+ FNP and extra protection vs D is ridonkilous. Absolutely ridiculous. This thing can easily be compared with the most overpowered (points efficient) big unit in 40K, the Wraithknight. It brings so much for the points.
Don't compare this with Revenants or Warhounds or Reavers, since it's a lot cheaper. That is, unless you're going to give this guy an extra Broadside team or a Riptide or half a dozen suicide deep strike double fusion blaster Crisis suits to help him since those can be bought with the price difference.
As far as the weapons are concerned, I'm much less in awe about the one big strength D blast, as I'm with the 3x apocalyptic blast S8 AP3 patterned bombardment that ignores cover saves. Against most targets there won't be any difference between that and strength D. It'll annihilate half the battlefield in one volley and nobody except the toughest death stars will get any saves of any kind.
Bring one of these big boys to soak fire and to carpet bomb the battlefield, and support it with more anti-tank guys if you're concerned with Titans. It's not like the Tau lack in that department.
All in all, I very much doubt you could spend 600 points in a more efficient manner, meaning if you're playing 1.85K pts or higher you won't make a mistake by playing this guy. Anything that can hurt this would hurt other units of equal value even more, and any firepower you can get for 600 points on a comparably super tough platform won't outshine this.
An interesting thing about the Ion Cannons - they have a Standard and Concentrated mode, instead of Standard and Overcharge. That could point towards a change to all Ion weaponry in the coming Tau book.
Hmm, this really should have been a SHW. The number and different roles of weapons would have gone well there. With three crew, it should be able to fire its main guns and its point defense.
I think the fusion gun works good. maybe a little more range and fewer shots, 30"/3, fitting with Tau fusion blasters.
The dumb Ion cannon arms have pretty good rules, but the beam mode needs "Gets hot".
The pulse driver. Its current modes are good, but it appears as if the guns can be leveled. If it truly is meant to take on titans, then it should have a direct fire mode: 3x shots with the same profile as the 7" blast.
GI_Redshirt wrote: Gonna post the same thing here that I did in the Forge World thread.
Honestly this thing seems pretty fair (for a Titan at least) in terms of power for it's points cost.
T9 is actually easier to wound than AV14 (AV14 needs a minimum of S8 to glance, while T9 needs S6 I think?). Yeah it has 10 wounds, but that seems in line with the rest of the Titans available. The 2+ isn't a big deal, if you're hitting a Titan with a sub AP2 weapon, either something has gone horribly wrong or you're doing it wrong. The GC status plus the invul does make it pretty survivable, but nothing insane, a 4++ followed by FNP is certainly not unheard of in normal 40k.
It's significantly fewer points than a Warhound titan, and while technically at a lower "T" value than AV14, between FNP, the armor and invul saves, it's going to be notably more survivable. There's lots of weapons that one might turn against such a creature which won't ignore its armor save either, Krak Missiles, Manticore Rockets, Basilisk shells, Hades Autocannons, Rokkits, Rupture Cannons, etc.
Relative to something like a Baneblade with sponsons, it's got more firepower, is probably twice as durable, significantly more mobile, and is only 25pts more.
The big thing I think people might be missing is that it's a GC, meaning it can only shoot 2 of it's weapons at a time, right?
It can shoot all of it's weapons, and at different targets.
The KX139 seems to suffer from the opposite problem every other Tau unit does; It has awesome survivability, but limited firepower,
12 S7 shots, two burst cannons, two missile pods, and a 7" D pieplate or 3 Battlecannon shots that ignore cover is not really limited firepower, it's pretty analgous to something like a Warhound armed with a Vulcan Megabolter and Turbolaser.
40k should just get rid of the whole vehicle rules system and just switch everything to T/W instead. The division of what goes where is just bonkers now (and it was never really very good ever going back to 3rd edition) and there are stark differences in utility and survivability between monstrous creatures and normal vehicles of the same pts cost. I don't play enough 7th ed apoca40k to know if that same imbalance applies to gargs and SH but I'd be shocked if it didn't given the lack of thought given to balance over the past 3 years.
In any case, people should be comparing it to the gold standard of cheese currently, the Wraithknight, and to a lesser extent the Imperial Knight.
Just a reminder. a Gargantuan Creature can fire ALL weapons just like any superheavy. It will gun-kata across the board like the best of them.
On the whole, this guy looks and feels a lot like a Titan, and actually is pretty close to the Warhound in terms of firepower, and easily outdoes the Cerastus and Knight titan when it comes to firepower.
I would have liked to see more weapon options, but the fusion weapon is QUITE nice, 5 shots at 24? hell yeah. Total of 10 fusion shots at 8/1 melta, 12 shots at 7/3, or 6 shots at 9/2.
The top gun is great, and I love the apoc barrage option. The massive blast is great too!
Frankly there is -nothing- I -don't- like about this guy, the barrier shield is even better...
Because you know someone will try to hit you with the D, but this is the first example of a true Cockblock in the game.
As far as the weapons are concerned, I'm much less in awe about the one big strength D blast, as I'm with the 3x apocalyptic blast S8 AP3 patterned bombardment that ignores cover saves. Against most targets there won't be any difference between that and strength D. It'll annihilate half the battlefield in one volley and nobody except the toughest death stars will get any saves of any kind.
Bring one of these big boys to soak fire and to carpet bomb the battlefield, and support it with more anti-tank guys if you're concerned with Titans. It's not like the Tau lack in that department.
All in all, I very much doubt you could spend 600 points in a more efficient manner, meaning if you're playing 1.85K pts or higher you won't make a mistake by playing this guy. Anything that can hurt this would hurt other units of equal value even more, and any firepower you can get for 600 points on a comparably super tough platform won't outshine this.
You realize that it is Apocalyptic Barrage (3) ... not 3 Apocalyptic Blasts?
That is only 3 Str 8 AP 3 pie plates. For only 120 points more I can get a Warhound that unleashes 4 Strength D Pie Plates.
warboss wrote: 40k should just get rid of the whole vehicle rules system and just switch everything to T/W instead. The division of what goes where is just bonkers now (and it was never really very good ever going back to 3rd edition) and there are stark differences in utility and survivability between monstrous creatures and normal vehicles of the same pts cost. I don't play enough 7th ed apoca40k to know if that same imbalance applies to gargs and SH but I'd be shocked if it didn't given the lack of thought given to balance over the past 3 years.
In any case, people should be comparing it to the gold standard of cheese currently, the Wraithknight, and to a lesser extent the Imperial Knight.
That or scrap the glancing hits part and make it so only the shots that penetrate, destroy the vehicle?
40k should just get rid of the whole vehicle rules system and just switch everything to T/W instead. The division of what goes where is just bonkers now (and it was never really very good ever going back to 3rd edition) and there are stark differences in utility and survivability between monstrous creatures and normal vehicles of the same pts cost. I don't play enough 7th ed apoca40k to know if that same imbalance applies to gargs and SH but I'd be shocked if it didn't given the lack of thought given to balance over the past 3 years.
^I want to agree, only thing is they would have to introduce toughnesses higher than 10 in order to implement vehicles properly (the point of the vehicle armor system is 2-fold, one is to limit the number of weapons capable of damaging it, the other is to introduce a maneuver element whereby a vehicle can become more or less vulnerable to enemy fire dpending on how its placed. Making all vehicles toughness/wound based would eliminate that second consideration).
The Wise Dane wrote: Just did a lil' bit of math with our local IG player, who thought that 15 Veteran Lascannons from a full unit of Heavy Weapon Teams should be a good counter... Not counting Cover, they would hit 2 to 3 hits a turn... Whereafter their ranks would be thinned quickly by the Tau'nar's weapons.
This fukken thing right here.
Would that same squad have a chance in hell of taking down a reaver in a single turn, or a fething warlord? Would anyone really expect it to?
As far as the weapons are concerned, I'm much less in awe about the one big strength D blast, as I'm with the 3x apocalyptic blast S8 AP3 patterned bombardment that ignores cover saves. Against most targets there won't be any difference between that and strength D. It'll annihilate half the battlefield in one volley and nobody except the toughest death stars will get any saves of any kind.
Bring one of these big boys to soak fire and to carpet bomb the battlefield, and support it with more anti-tank guys if you're concerned with Titans. It's not like the Tau lack in that department.
All in all, I very much doubt you could spend 600 points in a more efficient manner, meaning if you're playing 1.85K pts or higher you won't make a mistake by playing this guy. Anything that can hurt this would hurt other units of equal value even more, and any firepower you can get for 600 points on a comparably super tough platform won't outshine this.
You realize that it is Apocalyptic Barrage (3) ... not 3 Apocalyptic Blasts?
That is only 3 Str 8 AP 3 pie plates. For only 120 points more I can get a Warhound that unleashes 4 Strength D Pie Plates.
Does the Warhound also put out 12 Strength 7 AP3 shots/6 Strength 9 AP2 shots at 60" and 16 S5 AP5 shots, 8 of which are Twin-Linked at 18", 8 of which Ignore Cover at 30"? Is the Warhound harder to kill?
The answer to both questions is "no". Your argument is silly.
As far as the weapons are concerned, I'm much less in awe about the one big strength D blast, as I'm with the 3x apocalyptic blast S8 AP3 patterned bombardment that ignores cover saves. Against most targets there won't be any difference between that and strength D. It'll annihilate half the battlefield in one volley and nobody except the toughest death stars will get any saves of any kind.
Bring one of these big boys to soak fire and to carpet bomb the battlefield, and support it with more anti-tank guys if you're concerned with Titans. It's not like the Tau lack in that department.
All in all, I very much doubt you could spend 600 points in a more efficient manner, meaning if you're playing 1.85K pts or higher you won't make a mistake by playing this guy. Anything that can hurt this would hurt other units of equal value even more, and any firepower you can get for 600 points on a comparably super tough platform won't outshine this.
You realize that it is Apocalyptic Barrage (3) ... not 3 Apocalyptic Blasts?
That is only 3 Str 8 AP 3 pie plates. For only 120 points more I can get a Warhound that unleashes 4 Strength D Pie Plates.
Zelnik wrote: Just a reminder. a Gargantuan Creature can fire ALL weapons just like any superheavy. It will gun-kata across the board like the best of them.
On the whole, this guy looks and feels a lot like a Titan, and actually is pretty close to the Warhound in terms of firepower, and easily outdoes the Cerastus and Knight titan when it comes to firepower.
I would have liked to see more weapon options, but the fusion weapon is QUITE nice, 5 shots at 24? hell yeah. Total of 10 fusion shots at 8/1 melta, 12 shots at 7/3, or 6 shots at 9/2.
The top gun is great, and I love the apoc barrage option. The massive blast is great too!
Frankly there is -nothing- I -don't- like about this guy, the barrier shield is even better...
Because you know someone will try to hit you with the D, but this is the first example of a true Cockblock in the game.
5 shots at 12 if you want tthe melta rule. I probably would not run the eradicator because then i have to run it up the board and get it locked in combat by a cheap unit and not shoot for a turn
The Wise Dane wrote: Just did a lil' bit of math with our local IG player, who thought that 15 Veteran Lascannons from a full unit of Heavy Weapon Teams should be a good counter... Not counting Cover, they would hit 2 to 3 hits a turn... Whereafter their ranks would be thinned quickly by the Tau'nar's weapons.
This fukken thing right here.
Would that same squad have a chance in hell of taking down a reaver in a single turn, or a fething warlord? Would anyone really expect it to?
A Reaver is more than 2x the cost, a Warlord more than 4x.
Against the Ta'nar, those 15 BS3 lascannons are on average putting 1 wound on the thing between its invul and FNP, while against a Reaver they'd take down two voidshields *and* likely put at least 1 wound on it (well, 3 every 2 technically on average), and without the voidshields would be *doubling* their HP inflicting on the Reaver over what they'd inflict on the Ta'unar in Wounds.
Yay, my harridan costs 135 more points.its also weaker in every single way.
My usual games involve a guy who runs triptide, so I can see one of these being added to his list.
Amazing model though and a shame I don't play tau anymore.
Getting in close combat with a Gargy is the height of stupid. Stomp attacks don't rely on BS and can remove things from play without saves. you only survive if you are another gargy.
The Tau'Nar is the first Gargy with a real defense system, so far the others simply rely on the innate FNP and fearless to keep them alive (maybe a 5+ invul here and there).
Your Harridan is a flying gargy... so I would not call it 'worse in every way'. It also spawns more units. It's not 'weaker' it's different.
Also, the Tau'Nar can't attack fliers with it's 72 inch long D.
40k should just get rid of the whole vehicle rules system and just switch everything to T/W instead. The division of what goes where is just bonkers now (and it was never really very good ever going back to 3rd edition) and there are stark differences in utility and survivability between monstrous creatures and normal vehicles of the same pts cost. I don't play enough 7th ed apoca40k to know if that same imbalance applies to gargs and SH but I'd be shocked if it didn't given the lack of thought given to balance over the past 3 years.
^I want to agree, only thing is they would have to introduce toughnesses higher than 10 in order to implement vehicles properly (the point of the vehicle armor system is 2-fold, one is to limit the number of weapons capable of damaging it, the other is to introduce a maneuver element whereby a vehicle can become more or less vulnerable to enemy fire dpending on how its placed. Making all vehicles toughness/wound based would eliminate that second consideration).
I'd be fine with that but the topic might best be left to another thread (and I'm sorry for my part in possibly derailing the Tau rumor thread).
The Wise Dane wrote: Just did a lil' bit of math with our local IG player, who thought that 15 Veteran Lascannons from a full unit of Heavy Weapon Teams should be a good counter... Not counting Cover, they would hit 2 to 3 hits a turn... Whereafter their ranks would be thinned quickly by the Tau'nar's weapons.
This fukken thing right here.
Would that same squad have a chance in hell of taking down a reaver in a single turn, or a fething warlord? Would anyone really expect it to?
Although their official rules do tend to be pretty balanced (often more so than GW's).
I see no experimental stamp on it
Me neither - those look like the rules to me. That being said, it's a bit odd for a FW model to come with its own rules, though that makes sense. At least, none of the FW models I've bought came with their own rules.
It's hard to keep track of the tau conversation with the same topic and same points being discussed simultanously in two different threads. Wouldn't it be better to take the Forgeworld suit talk over to the forgeworld thread?
warboss wrote: 40k should just get rid of the whole vehicle rules system and just switch everything to T/W instead. The division of what goes where is just bonkers now (and it was never really very good ever going back to 3rd edition) and there are stark differences in utility and survivability between monstrous creatures and normal vehicles of the same pts cost. I don't play enough 7th ed apoca40k to know if that same imbalance applies to gargs and SH but I'd be shocked if it didn't given the lack of thought given to balance over the past 3 years.
In any case, people should be comparing it to the gold standard of cheese currently, the Wraithknight, and to a lesser extent the Imperial Knight.
That or scrap the glancing hits part and make it so only the shots that penetrate, destroy the vehicle?
A bit odd but meh either way. The pulse ordnance multi-driver (POMD), though comprised of 3 big guns, is one weapon profile and listed as a single weapon. The two tri-axisl ion cannons (TIC) are separate weapons and the vigilance defence system is a single weapon.
Grand total of 4 weapons possible to fire. So even if it's limited to two guns you fire the POMD and a TIC or the VDC or fire a two-weapon combination. It doesn't limit its damage output appreciably either way.
anyone with basic reading comprehension and the stick removed from their ass would tell you that it was meant to be like SHW and SHV. They are all in the same class of unit.
But back to the point, Holy gak, awesome vehicle. I am going to paint mine up like the Koenig Monster, even if my army is all bright red farsight enclaves.
chaos0xomega wrote: You think this codex will allow for battlesuit only armies, or do you think we'll still rely on a subcodex for that?
My guess is that it'll be shunted to some stupid formation that requires you to take a XV-LOLWUT PortaPotty Suit Squad of 3 as a requirement similar to how Deathwing and Ravenwing got shunted to formations only.
chaos0xomega wrote: You think this codex will allow for battlesuit only armies, or do you think we'll still rely on a subcodex for that?
My guess is that it'll be shunted to some stupid formation that requires you to take a XV-LOLWUT PortaPotty Suit Squad of 3 as a requirement similar to how Deathwing and Ravenwing got shunted to formations only.
Uh, Deathwing and Ravenwing have their own CADs in the DA book?
Although their official rules do tend to be pretty balanced (often more so than GW's).
I see no experimental stamp on it
It's the first iteration of the rules, and it's not physical, but a free thing online, meaning it's subject to change which is experimental enough to me. Unless FW ha really changed up the way they do things, I'll bet we'll be getting revised rules for this in a month or two.
chaos0xomega wrote: You think this codex will allow for battlesuit only armies, or do you think we'll still rely on a subcodex for that?
My guess is that it'll be shunted to some stupid formation that requires you to take a XV-LOLWUT PortaPotty Suit Squad of 3 as a requirement similar to how Deathwing and Ravenwing got shunted to formations only.
Uh, Deathwing and Ravenwing have their own CADs in the DA book?
That would be what I'm referring to. Sorry that I didn't get the nomenclature correct and wrote formation instead of detachment. They went from a full army to a cutdown alternate organization where you MUST take certain things and can't take others. My deathwing army can't be fielded anymore with DA. I hope that doesn't happen with tau.
The new walker is fine. In fact, I am very happy its NOT OP.
(also, there had been some comments by FW folks at a few cons, that the designation about walker vs. creature, is more about the perceived mobility and dynamic nature of the thing - i.e. can it easily move in different directions and shoot at 360. This makes sense from this regard. However, now they just need to work on the rules of beings vs. vehicles....which is another matter entirely).
In the context of newer power units (wraithknights, knight titans, grav star) and their point costs -this thing is actually quite modest, to be honest.
Now, of course, comparing to the old nid super heavies - it is a much different compairson - however, that is more of a factor that the heriophant is really bad, than that this thing is super good.
In fact, it has rather limited heavy (anti av14 / titan) firepower. I would have rather seen something like a few haywire cluster missiles, or other S10 rail weapons - the tau already have plenty of options for dealing with medium class threats.
Also, it looks MUCH better painted, I have to say.
I have mixed feelings on the other new stuff (a giant stealth suit...isn't that an oxymoron?) but we will see...I did not care for the riptide looks at first either.
That would be what I'm referring to. Sorry that I didn't get the nomenclature correct and wrote formation instead of detachment. They went from a full army to a cutdown alternate organization where you MUST take certain things and can't take others. My deathwing army can't be fielded anymore with DA. I hope that doesn't happen with tau.
Deathwing and Ravenwing got both an alt. FoC and Formations, just for the record.
Also, what kind of Deathwing can't you field with the alt. Deathwing FoC? It has no requirements at all. Except, well, 2 squads of Deathwing Terminators (unreasonably for a Deathwing army?) And it can include absolutely everything remotely related to Deathwing (and even loads of not-Deathwing stuff, if you choose).
That would be what I'm referring to. Sorry that I didn't get the nomenclature correct and wrote formation instead of detachment. They went from a full army to a cutdown alternate organization where you MUST take certain things and can't take others. My deathwing army can't be fielded anymore with DA. I hope that doesn't happen with tau.
Deathwing and Ravenwing got both an alt. FoC and Formations, just for the record.
Also, what kind of Deathwing can't you field with the alt. Deathwing FoC? It has no requirements at all. Except, well, 2 squads of Deathwing Terminators (unreasonably for a Deathwing army?) And it can include absolutely everything remotely related to Deathwing (and even loads of not-Deathwing stuff, if you choose).
Spoiler:
[img]
Storm Eagle and two ravenwing bike squadrons... on top of losing first turn deepstrike.
What a great model. I don't agree at all with the "too many guns" complaint. It's got two gun arms, a pair of turrets, and its main weapon on the shoulders/back. It's got less guns than a lot of other similarly styled walkers, and none of the weapons on this looked "tacked-on". They all look organic and work with the "flow" of the model.
If I played Tau, I'd get one in a heartbeat. Between this and the upcoming Tau books, it's going to be hard to resist taking up the army.
Darth Bob - I'm in the same boat as you.
But I went out and got farsight, 12 crisis suits, 3 broadsides and 2 riptides.
These have been sat in a draw in box's once they were released.
The Tau suits appeal to me, but their lore doesn't. The new Crisis Suits could conceivably convince me otherwise though, especially if the codex turns out well (i.e. balanced to 7.5 standards).
davethepak wrote: The new walker is fine. In fact, I am very happy its NOT OP.
(also, there had been some comments by FW folks at a few cons, that the designation about walker vs. creature, is more about the perceived mobility and dynamic nature of the thing - i.e. can it easily move in different directions and shoot at 360. This makes sense from this regard. However, now they just need to work on the rules of beings vs. vehicles....which is another matter entirely).
In the context of newer power units (wraithknights, knight titans, grav star) and their point costs -this thing is actually quite modest, to be honest.
Is it really? Modest? You get two Wraithknights for the price of one Tau Big Guy. Wraithknights got T8, 12 wounds 3+ saves. Tau'nar has T9, 10 wounds, 2+ saves, and invulnerable save. The WK can opt for the shield as well, but it's a 5+ save, not a 4+ save. On top, the Tau has the barrier shield vs bad D hits. Survivability wise, they're relatively equal, but if you consider everything the Tau is is still clearly harder to kill than two Wraithknights.
What about the guns? Two Wraithknights bring 4x single shot D sticks. That's pretty meh to be honest, and everyone knows it. The Tau suit on the other hand brings a massive amount of flexible firepower. If the Wraithknights go with the Suncannons to get the invulnerable save (to even in a small way compare with the survivability) then their firepower will only amount to about the Ion cannons, which is just where it gets started. The Tau suit clearly has more firepower than two Wraithknights.
Since the Tau suit is a GMC gun platform it doesn't really lack speed to get where it wants to.
I'm not trying to make an argument about 'what is better' or 'if something is broken' but I think with even a passing look we can see that the Tau suit compares very well with the Wraithknight, points efficiency wise, and to make a statement that the Tau titan is just a 'modest' version of the current power units is clearly ignorant of the facts.
If this thing cost 900 points, you'd have a point, that it's "probably useful in some situations but not that great". However, it doesn't. It costs only 600 points. More survivable than any other big models at the price, and with equal or better guns.
davethepak wrote: The new walker is fine. In fact, I am very happy its NOT OP.
(also, there had been some comments by FW folks at a few cons, that the designation about walker vs. creature, is more about the perceived mobility and dynamic nature of the thing - i.e. can it easily move in different directions and shoot at 360. This makes sense from this regard. However, now they just need to work on the rules of beings vs. vehicles....which is another matter entirely).
In the context of newer power units (wraithknights, knight titans, grav star) and their point costs -this thing is actually quite modest, to be honest.
Is it really? Modest? You get two Wraithknights for the price of one Tau Big Guy. Wraithknights got T8, 12 wounds 3+ saves. Tau'nar has T9, 10 wounds, 2+ saves, and invulnerable save. The WK can opt for the shield as well, but it's a 5+ save, not a 4+ save. On top, the Tau has the barrier shield vs bad D hits. Survivability wise, they're relatively equal, but if you consider everything the Tau is is still clearly harder to kill than two Wraithknights.
What about the guns? Two Wraithknights bring 4x single shot D sticks. That's pretty meh to be honest, and everyone knows it. The Tau suit on the other hand brings a massive amount of flexible firepower. If the Wraithknights go with the Suncannons to get the invulnerable save (to even in a small way compare with the survivability) then their firepower will only amount to about the Ion cannons, which is just where it gets started. The Tau suit clearly has more firepower than two Wraithknights.
Since the Tau suit is a GMC gun platform it doesn't really lack speed to get where it wants to.
I'm not trying to make an argument about 'what is better' or 'if something is broken' but I think with even a passing look we can see that the Tau suit compares very well with the Wraithknight, points efficiency wise, and to make a statement that the Tau titan is just a 'modest' version of the current power units is clearly ignorant of the facts.
If this thing cost 900 points, you'd have a point, that it's "probably useful in some situations but not that great". However, it doesn't. It costs only 600 points. More survivable than any other big models at the price, and with equal or better guns.
Thanks for a serious answer back - it is refreshing in this day and age.
I can agree, that if you look at all the "other" shots the suit has, they can indeed seem valuable, and within that context, it does seem to put out more firepower than the wraithknights.
My perspective is this - rarity of firepower, especially high power or D.
I play many armies, and to be honest, I have never had a problem with D weapons - I have had problem with the uneven access to them - and its even worse now.
Marines have D weapons in many titans, and in the melee weapon for the knight titans.
Eldar have them everywhere.
Tau have only (prior to this) the tigershark, which is a single shot, and VERY expensive.
Nids ....have none.
Chaos has a few (but not as many as imperial or eldar).
Additionally, while tau are quite shooty ....their shooting has some fascinating access restrictions. For example, only pathfinders can get the rail rifle. Only crisis suits/BS can get S7 missiles, and ONLY the hammer head, which does not come in squadrons can get the S10 railgun. What this does, is places a fairly big restriction in acquiring reliable firepower for use against super heavy opponent.
Enter the tau titan:
A big single shot D blase (nice!)
A bunch of S7 / 8 Shots (not bad). (or 9/2 shots...las cannons).
Durability (very nice).
Durable frame, has a D weapon, lots of supporting weapons, nice.
Now, what does it bring to the table that Tau did not already have....
Durability - not bad, but as a garg, it is VERY susceptible to Grav weapons. The invl shield helps.
A single shot d weapons.
thats it. The other weapons are nice...but what were the tau missing? D weapons. This has one single shot. I would trade all those secondary weapons (I can do that kind of damge with ionheads and riptides) for a couple more D shots.
This is why I say ...modest. The writh knights, have 4 d shots. Compared to this things 1. The D shots were what the tau were desperately lacking (in my humbler opinon) so this is the big comparison.
Don't get me wrong, the other guns are nice....
If it had four D shots, and those weapons - I would call it OP. But since it only has one ....I call it modest - within the context of what it bring to the table.
Hopefully this perspective makes sense - I can respect yours (and again, thank you for a sincere polite opposing view...a rarity these days) - but I just wanted to give some context to mine.
now, of course, I would not want to face one with a tyranid army....but my tyranid bio titans (I have three....) don't want to face a squad of centurions either...but that is more an issue with the bugs than anything else...
davethepak wrote: The new walker is fine. In fact, I am very happy its NOT OP.
(also, there had been some comments by FW folks at a few cons, that the designation about walker vs. creature, is more about the perceived mobility and dynamic nature of the thing - i.e. can it easily move in different directions and shoot at 360. This makes sense from this regard. However, now they just need to work on the rules of beings vs. vehicles....which is another matter entirely).
In the context of newer power units (wraithknights, knight titans, grav star) and their point costs -this thing is actually quite modest, to be honest.
Is it really? Modest? You get two Wraithknights for the price of one Tau Big Guy. Wraithknights got T8, 12 wounds 3+ saves. Tau'nar has T9, 10 wounds, 2+ saves, and invulnerable save. The WK can opt for the shield as well, but it's a 5+ save, not a 4+ save. On top, the Tau has the barrier shield vs bad D hits. Survivability wise, they're relatively equal, but if you consider everything the Tau is is still clearly harder to kill than two Wraithknights.
What about the guns? Two Wraithknights bring 4x single shot D sticks. That's pretty meh to be honest, and everyone knows it. The Tau suit on the other hand brings a massive amount of flexible firepower. If the Wraithknights go with the Suncannons to get the invulnerable save (to even in a small way compare with the survivability) then their firepower will only amount to about the Ion cannons, which is just where it gets started. The Tau suit clearly has more firepower than two Wraithknights.
Since the Tau suit is a GMC gun platform it doesn't really lack speed to get where it wants to.
I'm not trying to make an argument about 'what is better' or 'if something is broken' but I think with even a passing look we can see that the Tau suit compares very well with the Wraithknight, points efficiency wise, and to make a statement that the Tau titan is just a 'modest' version of the current power units is clearly ignorant of the facts.
If this thing cost 900 points, you'd have a point, that it's "probably useful in some situations but not that great". However, it doesn't. It costs only 600 points. More survivable than any other big models at the price, and with equal or better guns.
Thanks for a serious answer back - it is refreshing in this day and age.
I can agree, that if you look at all the "other" shots the suit has, they can indeed seem valuable, and within that context, it does seem to put out more firepower than the wraithknights.
My perspective is this - rarity of firepower, especially high power or D.
I play many armies, and to be honest, I have never had a problem with D weapons - I have had problem with the uneven access to them - and its even worse now.
Marines have D weapons in many titans, and in the melee weapon for the knight titans.
Eldar have them everywhere.
Tau have only (prior to this) the tigershark, which is a single shot, and VERY expensive.
Nids ....have none.
Chaos has a few (but not as many as imperial or eldar).
Additionally, while tau are quite shooty ....their shooting has some fascinating access restrictions. For example, only pathfinders can get the rail rifle. Only crisis suits/BS can get S7 missiles, and ONLY the hammer head, which does not come in squadrons can get the S10 railgun. What this does, is places a fairly big restriction in acquiring reliable firepower for use against super heavy opponent.
Enter the tau titan:
A big single shot D blase (nice!)
A bunch of S7 / 8 Shots (not bad). (or 9/2 shots...las cannons).
Durability (very nice).
Durable frame, has a D weapon, lots of supporting weapons, nice.
Now, what does it bring to the table that Tau did not already have....
Durability - not bad, but as a garg, it is VERY susceptible to Grav weapons. The invl shield helps.
A single shot d weapons.
thats it. The other weapons are nice...but what were the tau missing? D weapons. This has one single shot. I would trade all those secondary weapons (I can do that kind of damge with ionheads and riptides) for a couple more D shots.
This is why I say ...modest. The writh knights, have 4 d shots. Compared to this things 1. The D shots were what the tau were desperately lacking (in my humbler opinon) so this is the big comparison.
Don't get me wrong, the other guns are nice....
If it had four D shots, and those weapons - I would call it OP. But since it only has one ....I call it modest - within the context of what it bring to the table.
Hopefully this perspective makes sense - I can respect yours (and again, thank you for a sincere polite opposing view...a rarity these days) - but I just wanted to give some context to mine.
now, of course, I would not want to face one with a tyranid army....but my tyranid bio titans (I have three....) don't want to face a squad of centurions either...but that is more an issue with the bugs than anything else...
It's a worthy point, but we don't have the whole picture. In a vacuum, this Tau Titan is worth every point it costs, and more. It's one of the most points efficient units in the game, making it a must take. Now, what you're saying is true in the context of the old Tau codex (Tau could use more D shots), but what about the new codex? We don't know it yet, but considering the treatment the Eldar got, it's not hopelessly optimistic to assume that there's D weapons available to the 'normal' Tau units now too. All types of Rail weapons being the obvious candidates.
We'll just have to wait and see how it all shakes out.
@Therion, davethepak - thanks for a good read with back-and-forth where there's merit on both sides of the fence in a good and respectful discussion. Not enough of this, these days on the interwebs!
We'll just have to wait and see how it all shakes out.
And I'm dyin' to see how it all shakes out. Lord almighty, it feels like eons since our last 40k release The new Blood Angels bits from FW should be coming soon, which will tide me over for a little bit, but I can't wait to see what happens to the Tau.
I am very curious as to what the fluff and structure behind their Decurion-style formation will be.
Caederes wrote: Undoubtedly their "Decurion" will be the overall Hunter Cadre with each formation being a smaller Cadre like the Firebase Support Cadre.
There is no such thing as "smaller Cadres". What you are thinking about is the Tau Coalition (the Tau military unit that includes all kinds of Cadres), and not the Hunter Cadre .
Caederes wrote: Undoubtedly their "Decurion" will be the overall Hunter Cadre with each formation being a smaller Cadre like the Firebase Support Cadre.
There is no such thing as "smaller Cadres". What you are thinking about is the Tau Coalition (the Tau military unit that includes all kinds of Cadres), and not the Hunter Cadre .
Haha cheers, yeah I'm not too read up on Tau fluff nowadays.
Caederes wrote: Undoubtedly their "Decurion" will be the overall Hunter Cadre with each formation being a smaller Cadre like the Firebase Support Cadre.
There is no such thing as "smaller Cadres". What you are thinking about is the Tau Coalition (the Tau military unit that includes all kinds of Cadres), and not the Hunter Cadre .
Hunter Cadre will probably be the the core formation, with these other cadres the auxiliary formations
Caederes wrote: Undoubtedly their "Decurion" will be the overall Hunter Cadre with each formation being a smaller Cadre like the Firebase Support Cadre.
There is no such thing as "smaller Cadres". What you are thinking about is the Tau Coalition (the Tau military unit that includes all kinds of Cadres), and not the Hunter Cadre .
Hunter Cadre will probably be the the core formation, with these other cadres the auxiliary formations
Agree. I would also add that the Hunter Cadre is too big for a stand-alone formation (it is some 1000+ points at bare minimum), so they will divide it into two parts a'la Battle Company and give a bonus if you bring a full Hunter Cadre (I can smell the free Drones from here ).
Caederes wrote: Undoubtedly their "Decurion" will be the overall Hunter Cadre with each formation being a smaller Cadre like the Firebase Support Cadre.
There is no such thing as "smaller Cadres". What you are thinking about is the Tau Coalition (the Tau military unit that includes all kinds of Cadres), and not the Hunter Cadre .
Hunter Cadre will probably be the the core formation, with these other cadres the auxiliary formations
Agree. I would also add that the Hunter Cadre is too big for a stand-alone formation (it is some 1000+ points at bare minimum), so they will divide it into two parts a'la Battle Company and give a bonus if you bring a full Hunter Cadre (I can smell the free Drones from here ).
How does free Drones for the full Hunter Cadre and +1 army-wide Ballistic Skill for the actual detachment sound?
I am most curious to see what perks are gained by taking units of tanks. You just know skyrays and HH are going to be 1-3 with a benefit for taking 3. I just pray Riptides are not 1-3 in units
Aside from that I am sure their will be some filthy formations.
Red Corsair wrote: I am most curious to see what perks are gained by taking units of tanks. You just know skyrays and HH are going to be 1-3 with a benefit for taking 3. I just pray Riptides are not 1-3 in units
Aside from that I am sure their will be some filthy formations.
I'd imagine it wouldn't be linked fire like the Eldar tanks but more a unit-wide bonus like the Space Marine tanks, perhaps Hammerheads get Tank Hunter/Monster Hunter like Predators and Skyrays get Interceptor or something? I'm guessing Riptides won't come in units only because there are so many solo variations throughout the different slots, especially with the new Stormsurge and Ghostkeel. If they do....*shudder*.
Their formations are going to be ridiculous if the Firebase Support Cadre is anything to go by. If I'm not mistaken the FSC was actually the first ever formation in 40K? It still stands up as one of the strongest too.
Red Corsair wrote: I am most curious to see what perks are gained by taking units of tanks. You just know skyrays and HH are going to be 1-3 with a benefit for taking 3. I just pray Riptides are not 1-3 in units
Aside from that I am sure their will be some filthy formations.
Heh...for tau players the biggest bonus would be being able to take units of tanks.
More seriously - I just hope they are useful benefits - and not over powered. I think one of the biggest things veteran tau players (i.e. previous to the last book) would like to see is a return of vehicle target locks and trackers. The loss of these upgrades really stifled the utility and mobility of tau armies (along with other rules that encouraged being static).
Another note on useful; sometimes something might not be bad, but that does not mean it can be seen as valuable. For example, the sunshark bomber has drones with interceptor, some seekers, and its main attack, was a large blast "fusion" bomb (I think it had another missile launcher too). This unit however, was quite the "dud" with most tau players - in fact, many have commented over time that they have never seen them deployed on the table.
The reason - they did not add any significant capability that the tau did not already have, or could not get in other choices, at better unit costs.
The primary weapon, was a S5AP5 large blast. While not bad at all, there was no lack of S5 shooting in the codex (drones, pathfinders, firewarriors, crisis suits, vehicle weapons, stealth suits, etc.) - so the while this weapon was not bad per se, it was not valuable within that context. The drones added some new options depending upon the tactics of the list - but this new tactical flexibility did not offset the overall cost of the unit.
It would be kind of like if there was a new predator variant that had a new mix of Auto cannons, heavy bolters, and bolters. (maybe add hurricane bolter sponsons, etc.). While not bad, clearly not really bringing anything new to the heavy suppot slot, or to the army.
Now, if the bombs were S8AP3.... you would see a lot more of them.
Red Corsair wrote: I am most curious to see what perks are gained by taking units of tanks. You just know skyrays and HH are going to be 1-3 with a benefit for taking 3. I just pray Riptides are not 1-3 in units
Aside from that I am sure their will be some filthy formations.
I agree on that. There will be some so brainlessly good that it's free stuff for nothing. Like, take 3 Riptides, gain tank hunter and move through cover for free, and a larger formation of entirely Crisis Suits, Riptides, Broadsides, HQ suits, and the new big suit variants, all of the previous gets +1 BS for free. People will be scratching their head at the balancing that's for sure.
Red Corsair wrote: I am most curious to see what perks are gained by taking units of tanks. You just know skyrays and HH are going to be 1-3 with a benefit for taking 3. I just pray Riptides are not 1-3 in units
Aside from that I am sure their will be some filthy formations.
Like, take 3 Riptides, gain tank hunter and move through cover for free.
They already have move through cover. It is part of the monstrous creature special rule.
Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if the Riptide got the Wraithknight treatment and was turned into a GMC LoW, with formations/detachment shenanigans allowing you to take multiple.
warboss wrote: I'm most curious to see how the missiletide compares with the FW supremacy suit. I'm thinking about coverting the former to look more like the latter.
For one there's a pretty staggering size difference.
I am honestly tempted to get one of these but I think I am leaning towards the Melta build. Maybe one arm melta and another the Ion. I am betting we see a release for the Farside book before we see the main Tau dex similar the AM and Skitarri.
Fishboy wrote: I am honestly tempted to get one of these but I think I am leaning towards the Melta build. Maybe one arm melta and another the Ion. I am betting we see a release for the Farside book before we see the main Tau dex similar the AM and Skitarri.
You mean like how we saw Iyanden before Eldar..? The Mechanicus stuff is different because they function as separate books, one isn't a supplement to the other. I doubt the Farside book will be redone, Iyanden, Sentinals of Terra and Clan Raurkann were all left when the parent book got redone.
warboss wrote: I'm most curious to see how the missiletide compares with the FW supremacy suit. I'm thinking about coverting the former to look more like the latter.
For one there's a pretty staggering size difference.
Yeah, that's obvious. I wonder if it'll be a super heavy/garg LOW or "just" a monstrous creature like the riptide and how it compares statwise. Will it be t7 to be better than the riptide but still worse than the wraithknight? I'm wondering how much variety in LOW it'll be (i.e. is the missile tide the imperial knight to the supremacy armor's warhound both in size and stats)
Fishboy wrote: I am honestly tempted to get one of these but I think I am leaning towards the Melta build. Maybe one arm melta and another the Ion. I am betting we see a release for the Farside book before we see the main Tau dex similar the AM and Skitarri.
You mean like how we saw Iyanden before Eldar..? The Mechanicus stuff is different because they function as separate books, one isn't a supplement to the other. I doubt the Farside book will be redone, Iyanden, Sentinals of Terra and Clan Raurkann were all left when the parent book got redone.
I can see your point but there is a little fluff separation so I would not be surprised to see the AM or Skitarri treatment but all tied together with a magic formation. GW seem to be more creatures of habit and this would sell another book for them.
It's a worthy point, but we don't have the whole picture. In a vacuum, this Tau Titan is worth every point it costs, and more. It's one of the most points efficient units in the game, making it a must take. Now, what you're saying is true in the context of the old Tau codex (Tau could use more D shots), but what about the new codex? We don't know it yet, but considering the treatment the Eldar got, it's not hopelessly optimistic to assume that there's D weapons available to the 'normal' Tau units now too. All types of Rail weapons being the obvious candidates.
We'll just have to wait and see how it all shakes out.
Maybe the Riptide's Nove-charged Ion Accelerator will get a Strength D Large Blast now...
Super excited about those new fire warriors , suits and commander. May have to come back to tau of that means I wouldn't have to run Riptides to succeed!
It's very unlikely the Riptide class will be turned into GMC's they just aren't big enough. And we have our new gigantic Stormsurge to cover that role from the looks of it.
Gamgee wrote: It's very unlikely the Riptide class will be turned into GMC's they just aren't big enough. And we have our new gigantic Supremacy Armor to cover that role from the looks of it.
Fix'd. The Stormsurge actually doesn't look much bigger than the Riptide, and much of its bulk is its weapons.
So it looks like the new stealth is in between a crisis suit and broadside size model and the stormsurge is in between the riptide and the new FW model size....is that about right?
krazynadechukr wrote: So it looks like the new stealth is in between a crisis suit and broadside size model and the stormsurge is in between the riptide and the new FW model size....is that about right?
The Ghostkeel (the stealthtide) is just a breath smaller than a Riptide. The Stormsurge (the missiletide) is three XBOX HUEG weapons larger than the Riptide. The legs and the torso is roughly the same size as the Riptide's in both cases.
There is a pic in the first page that shows all three next to each other.
krazynadechukr wrote: So it looks like the new stealth is in between a crisis suit and broadside size model and the stormsurge is in between the riptide and the new FW model size....is that about right?
The Ghostkeel (the stealthtide) is just a breath smaller than a Riptide. The Stormsurge (the missiletide) is three XBOX HUEG weapons larger than the Riptide. The legs and the torso is roughly the same size as the Riptide's in both cases.
There is a pic in the first page that shows all three next to each other.
I think the Ghostkeel is smaller than you think, it looks similar to the Riptide in that photo but that's in the foreground while the other two are in the background.
krazynadechukr wrote: So it looks like the new stealth is in between a crisis suit and broadside size model and the stormsurge is in between the riptide and the new FW model size....is that about right?
The Ghostkeel (the stealthtide) is just a breath smaller than a Riptide. The Stormsurge (the missiletide) is three XBOX HUEG weapons larger than the Riptide. The legs and the torso is roughly the same size as the Riptide's in both cases.
There is a pic in the first page that shows all three next to each other.
I think the Ghostkeel is smaller than you think, it looks similar to the Riptide in that photo but that's in the foreground while the other two are in the background.
krazynadechukr wrote: So it looks like the new stealth is in between a crisis suit and broadside size model and the stormsurge is in between the riptide and the new FW model size....is that about right?
The Ghostkeel (the stealthtide) is just a breath smaller than a Riptide. The Stormsurge (the missiletide) is three XBOX HUEG weapons larger than the Riptide. The legs and the torso is roughly the same size as the Riptide's in both cases.
There is a pic in the first page that shows all three next to each other.
The pic on the front page shows all three at differing distances from the camera which is what is causing the confusion. The likely smallest is up front, the probably biggest is in line with the riptide though and looks bigger not just on the weapons but also the torso... but it's still not crystal clear.
Judging from other clues, like the stormsurge's foot the size of the fire warrior at the edge of his base behind him, I'd (safely) say the stormsurge is larger (if fully upright) than the riptide. The stealth is harder to guage, but I am guessing broadside size, give a little or take a little...but larger than a crisis suit for sure.... (IMHO)
maceria wrote: I would peg the stealth suit to be about XV9 sized. Little bigger than a broadside.
Also, man, if they limit Riptides I will LAUGH SO DAMN HARD. As a Tau player there is very little I find as stupid as riptide spam.
How would they limit the Riptide? Stormsurge is larger than it and will probably be our LoW. The special formations will have slots for Riptides. You can still use CADs.
ChiliPowderKeg wrote: Will the Farsight supplement-codex be legal to use after the new dex?
While possible, I think it's unlikely. If Eldar are any indication, FE is most likely gonna stop being legal with the new codex, though there is always hope. Personally I forsee some of the relics from FE (namely Talisman and ECPA) being transferred over to the main codex in some form or another, and Tau getting a Core formation in their Decurion for Battlesuits. Similar to how Eldar have three core formations, one of Storm Guardians, one for Battle Guardians, and one for bikes, I think (read as hope) Tau are going to get a Core formation for Fire Warriors, and a Core formation for Crisis Suits. So long as there is some way in the new codex to take my Crisis Suits as troops and/or build a battlesuit only army, I'll be happy.
That's what I'm expecting/hoping they don't screw it up further. My guess is that there will be a special Farsight decurion type detachment (maybe in White Dwarf) and crisis and broadside formations in the codex. The Farsight detachment will have those as mandatory with some other things as options. That's my guess.
I would agree with that warboss. Ideally we get the Dark Angels treatment where we get a seperate detachment for a Farsight style list. There will absolutely be formations for the various battlesuits (likely one for each type of suit or a shift in the apoc formations we have now, ie Crisis and Stealth Suits in one, and Riptides and Broadsides in another). I just really don't wanna have to take Fire Warriors and such to make a Decurion or Combined Arms list. I have nothing against FWs and such, I just wanna be able to make a full battlesuit list, since the battlesuits were the main reason I got into Tau in the first place.
Gamgee wrote: It's very unlikely the Riptide class will be turned into GMC's they just aren't big enough. And we have our new gigantic Supremacy Armor to cover that role from the looks of it.
Fix'd. The Stormsurge actually doesn't look much bigger than the Riptide, and much of its bulk is its weapons.
The Stormsurge is much bigger than a Riptide. If you compare the waists of each, you will see the stormsurge has a lot more detail in places you can't get detail into the Riptide.
Also, the numberings. The XV104 is the Riptide, and the first two numbers designates the size. The XV139 is the FW superheavy, and we know it stands as tall as one of the crazy FW knights. Because of that, it's logical to assume that the Stormsurge will be approximately the same size as an Imperial Knight (normal one, not the tall FW ones).
GI_Redshirt wrote:I would agree with that warboss. Ideally we get the Dark Angels treatment where we get a seperate detachment for a Farsight style list. There will absolutely be formations for the various battlesuits (likely one for each type of suit or a shift in the apoc formations we have now, ie Crisis and Stealth Suits in one, and Riptides and Broadsides in another). I just really don't wanna have to take Fire Warriors and such to make a Decurion or Combined Arms list. I have nothing against FWs and such, I just wanna be able to make a full battlesuit list, since the battlesuits were the main reason I got into Tau in the first place.
To be honest, I can't see it. The only reason the Space Marine supplements are still in print is because Space Marines are the top sellers. Tau will almost certainly get a Decurion-style detachment, but Fire Warriors will probably be mandatory. The most you will get as far as battlesuits go is some sort of dedicated formation. Fortunately, because this is 7th edition, you can play that formation as a standalone army.
warboss wrote:I just wonder if they'll autoinclude a unit no one uses or wants like they did with the eldar and the vyper.
Like they did with the Slaughtercult and Possessed? Or the Decurion and Tomb Blades? You forget: GW exists to sell models. There's a 100% chance of this happening with Tau. Inb4 mandatory Vespid!
On a more hopeful note, Tomb Blades are really good for Necorns and the Vaul's Wrath and Vypers can be made to work with Eldar.
krazynadechukr wrote: Judging from other clues, like the stormsurge's foot the size of the fire warrior at the edge of his base behind him, I'd (safely) say the stormsurge is larger (if fully upright) than the riptide. The stealth is harder to guage, but I am guessing broadside size, give a little or take a little...but larger than a crisis suit for sure.... (IMHO)
They all have the standard Riptide legs with different tight plates, so they can't be that different in terms of size.
Gamgee wrote: The Stormsurge doesn't have Riptide legs. Look at the pose and thickness.
It only has thicker tight plates, that's all. Also, I think you can pose the Riptide legs like that, so it doesn't make a difference either. They are all on the large oval base, yet their size doesn't change much when compared to their (shared) bases, so there is that too.
krazynadechukr wrote: Judging from other clues, like the stormsurge's foot the size of the fire warrior at the edge of his base behind him, I'd (safely) say the stormsurge is larger (if fully upright) than the riptide. The stealth is harder to guage, but I am guessing broadside size, give a little or take a little...but larger than a crisis suit for sure.... (IMHO)
They all have the standard Riptide legs with different tight plates, so they can't be that different in terms of size.
They're different, looking at these pictures there's more detail on the Stormsurges lower legs than the Riptides:
And the Ghostkeel is definitely a fair bit smaller than the Riptide. Probably between broadside and riptide. The Ghostkeel seems to be on a round base, not the oval one.
The Stormsurge is in a crouching position as well. If it was standing it would tower over the Riptide which is standing in the leaked pics.
Edit
I think the Stormsurge and the Ghostkeel are completely new kits, and I think the Riptide is being repackaged to include new weapons options or something. Maybe it makes a variant we haven't seen yet? I find the first option more likely but you never know.
It's obvious none of the new kits shown look like they would need to be packaged in with existing models they just don't make sense to pack in with the Riptide. So if these are both models we have to ask ourselves. What was the Riptide kit pulled from reorder for?
krazynadechukr wrote: Judging from other clues, like the stormsurge's foot the size of the fire warrior at the edge of his base behind him, I'd (safely) say the stormsurge is larger (if fully upright) than the riptide. The stealth is harder to guage, but I am guessing broadside size, give a little or take a little...but larger than a crisis suit for sure.... (IMHO)
They all have the standard Riptide legs with different tight plates, so they can't be that different in terms of size.
Gamgee wrote: GW are sneaking a GMC past you and you didn't even notice it. haha.
Nah, we already know how a Tau GMC looks like, and the Stormsurge is nowhere even near to that. The two new suits are gonna be normal MCs in the Fast Attack and Heavy Support slots so that GW can maximize the number of new models sold. They will pull a Necron and make Aun'va a LoW choice.
If they do do the Farsight book - be good to make it a proper independant enclave rather than allowing anything from the main codex - ie no etherials or new Tech.
Yeah, they made up new fluff specifically to justify why the Enclaves have access to new tech like the riptide (if I'm not mistaken one of "the Eight" was a defector from the Empire that brought a whole ship full of goodies with her). Would be kinda stupid on GW's part to restrict access to any of the new models, unless they just aren't that interested in selling them. Especially since they don't really restrict any other army like that.
Sidstyler wrote: Yeah, they made up new fluff specifically to justify why the Enclaves have access to new tech like the riptide (if I'm not mistaken one of "the Eight" was a defector from the Empire that brought a whole ship full of goodies with her). Would be kinda stupid on GW's part to restrict access to any of the new models, unless they just aren't that interested in selling them. Especially since they don't really restrict any other army like that.
Sidstyler wrote: Yeah, they made up new fluff specifically to justify why the Enclaves have access to new tech like the riptide (if I'm not mistaken one of "the Eight" was a defector from the Empire that brought a whole ship full of goodies with her). Would be kinda stupid on GW's part to restrict access to any of the new models, unless they just aren't that interested in selling them. Especially since they don't really restrict any other army like that.
Except thats exactly what they do do - if you are special variant on the normal army theme - you gain stuff and loose stuff. Thats what happens with the Variant Astartes Chatpers and as already noted the Chaos Marines loose out on new Tech for no reason given they have whole chapters turning renegades with all the new kit.
Thats not to say Farsight could not have some unusual likely non Tau stuff - but it would be nice to have a theme rather than it being Codex +
You're actually proving my point, if anything. What I'm talking about would be like if heldrakes were restricted to armies led by undivided lords, or if they counted as a 0-1 Elite choice if you didn't bring an undivided lord. Or if only Alpha Legion were allowed to take units of cultists, or if Death Guard weren't allowed to use bikes or raptors at all, etc.
In that regard GW actually did make the CSM codex less restrictive than it used to be. The fact that it's also a pile of gak is irrelevant.
Sidstyler wrote: You're actually proving my point, if anything. What I'm talking about would be like if heldrakes were restricted to armies led by undivided lords, or if they counted as a 0-1 Elite choice if you didn't bring an undivided lord. Or if only Alpha Legion were allowed to take units of cultists, or if Death Guard weren't allowed to use bikes or raptors at all, etc.
In that regard GW actually did make the CSM codex less restrictive than it used to be. The fact that it's also a pile of gak is irrelevant.
Chaos Space Marines shoudl have access ot Loyalist technology as very many of them are in fact regenades
The much more relevant comparison is looking at the Blood Angels, Space Wolves etc is that they get special units and exceptions - same as Farsight but then they loose some as well - with Farisght - should it not be the same?
There is the danger that the special chapters fall into of too many over themed units - like flying wolf sleds but in a ideal world - the chracter of the Farsight Enclaves could be kept without such excess.
I think we all agree there should be no Etherials in the FE list?
Mr Morden wrote: Chaos Space Marines shoudl have access ot Loyalist technology as very many of them are in fact regenades
They should, yeah. Either that or they should return their focus to the Legions and think of some other way of representing the newly-turned renegades. The current codex doesn't do a very good job at representing either (and also sucks).
Mr Morden wrote: The much more relevant comparison is looking at the Blood Angels, Space Wolves etc is that they get special units and exceptions - same as Farsight but then they loose some as well - with Farisght - should it not be the same?
Yeah, and look at how happy a lot of those Blood Angels players were when their book dropped. They didn't seem to like their "theme" very much.
But no, there shouldn't be any ethereals in a FE list, for obvious reasons. That's a pretty significant part of the FE background and it would make no sense. But if they can find a way to explain FE getting riptides from defectors, and even made a point about how Farsight still has a lot of friends and sympathizers on Vior'la, I don't really see any reason to restrict access to the new suits (indeed it seems like they've set up the fluff specifically so that Farsight can get access to new stuff). Unless like I said, GWdoesn't want money.
Mr Morden wrote: Chaos Space Marines shoudl have access ot Loyalist technology as very many of them are in fact regenades
They should, yeah. Either that or they should return their focus to the Legions and think of some other way of representing the newly-turned renegades. The current codex doesn't do a very good job at representing either (and also sucks).
Mr Morden wrote: The much more relevant comparison is looking at the Blood Angels, Space Wolves etc is that they get special units and exceptions - same as Farsight but then they loose some as well - with Farisght - should it not be the same?
Yeah, and look at how happy a lot of those Blood Angels players were when their book dropped. They didn't seem to like their "theme" very much.
But no, there shouldn't be any ethereals in a FE list, for obvious reasons. That's a pretty significant part of the FE background and it would make no sense. But if they can find a way to explain FE getting riptides from defectors, and even made a point about how Farsight still has a lot of friends and sympathizers on Vior'la, I don't really see any reason to restrict access to the new suits. Unless like I said, GWdoesn't want money.
Yeah thats the point your statement
Especially since they don't really restrict any other army like that.
is patently misleading when you look at the specific Astartes Chapters like the Blood Angels? Now an actual proper civil war in the Tau empire would be interesting
Its IMO the ongoing problem with the 40k rules - the lack of constistancy or indeed logic when it comes ot army composition and rules.
Again yeah GW would be sensible not to restrict units like the Riptide but GW don;t always make sense.
Chaos Space Marines shoudl have access ot Loyalist technology as very many of them are in fact regenades
Without going too far off-topic, that really doesn't mean that "they should have access to Loyalist technology".
Look at how the Heresy played out. Legions didn't turn traitor overnight, repainting everything and spikying it up. It was a gradual thing--and Horus along with his brothers went out of their way to ensure that the people they couldn't control were killed off before they made their big move at Isstvan.
And even then, they didn't get all of those people and some of them were those with what amounted to "the keys to the kingdom". It's not unreasonable to think that just because it says a Chapter went renegade, that it does not mean that everyone went renegade.
The Masters of the Forge(and their Techmarine underlings) reasonably might not be turning renegade alongside of the rest of those who turn renegade. The whole dual-allegiance to Mars and to the Chapter could result in the MOTF destroying his precious charges rather than letting them fall into the hands of traitors and oathbreakers.
I mean, there's literally tons of explanations beyond "because Legions didn't have it".
The much more relevant comparison is looking at the Blood Angels, Space Wolves etc is that they get special units and exceptions - same as Farsight but then they loose some as well - with Farisght - should it not be the same?
There is the danger that the special chapters fall into of too many over themed units - like flying wolf sleds but in a ideal world - the chracter of the Farsight Enclaves could be kept without such excess.
Pft. Logan Grimnar on Stormrider is awesome, don't know what you're talking about.
I think we all agree there should be no Etherials in the FE list?
But then what else would be "characterful"?
0-1 Riptides?
0-1 Stealth Teams if you're using the XV25 models, but as many as you'd like of the XV15?
No Pathfinder upgrades or any drones beyond Shield/Gun Drones?
There's a reason why the Farsight Enclave book introduced what amounts to a "sympathizer" element within the Tau Empire that feels that the Farsight Enclave is still loyal to the ideas of the Greater Good and that the Empire itself is beginning to be corrupted.
They also introduced a bit of a narrative element that essentially is the Tau Empire willing to look the other way to ensure that the FE is given equipment and supplies so that they can continue to be a buffer.
Is it possible that these aren't new Firewarriors? maybe an upgrade kit with new heads and back packs or something. The legs, arms, chest, and shoulder pads look exactly the same as the existing ones
warboss wrote: I just wonder if they'll autoinclude a unit no one uses or wants like they did with the eldar and the vyper.
If the past Decurions have been any indication (Tomb Blades for Necrons, War Walkers/Vypers for Eldar, etc.), there will absolutely be an auto-include unit people didn't like. And going by the previous examples we've seen, personally I think the auto-include will be Piranhas. It fits with the theme of the past Decurions, a fast, vulnerable, unit for jumping around the board. Certainly makes more sense to have it as an actual Tau unit and not an auxiliary like Vespid or Kroot. The only other option I can think of would be Stealth Suits (thinking in terms of general units that don't see much play time and probably don't sell that much), but even they are still good, they just aren't used because the other Elite options are just so much better (speaking of which, can Stealth Suits be moved to FA please GW?)
So yeah, my prediction is Piranhas will be our forced include for Tau Decurion, but will see some kind of buff similar to Tomb Blades and Vypers (likely we'll get more weapon options like plasma rifles or missile pods, and possibly the ability to replace the gun drones like how Devilfish and the tanks can).
That would be my guess as they suck and I don't usually see anyone using them (just like Vypers)... and I don't have any. I might have to proxy a pair of Tetras as one pirahna instead. :(
edit: Suck is perhaps too strong of a word. Inefficient seems better. Anything they can do (except for last turn objective scoring) someone else in the Tau codex can do better and with the stupid 'take anything from anywhere" bound ally/detachment rules there are better last turn objective scorers as well.
The new warriors (doubt their fire) have different heads, packs (notice antenna & thrusters (?), and their guns are different from any other Tau weapon (scatter style weapon?)...
Notice the pistol in the one models hand too?
The rest is the same as current fire warrior models though.
My money is on GW releasing a new dual kit where you can make either Fire Warriors (troops choice) or some new fast choice.
krazynadechukr wrote: The new warriors (doubt their fire) have different heads, packs (notice antenna & thrusters (?), and their guns are different from any other Tau weapon (scatter style weapon?)...
Notice the pistol in the one models hand too?
The rest is the same as current fire warrior models though.
My money is on GW releasing a new dual kit where you can make either Fire Warriors (troops choice) or some new fast choice.
krazynadechukr wrote: The new warriors (doubt their fire) have different heads, packs (notice antenna & thrusters (?), and their guns are different from any other Tau weapon (scatter style weapon?)...
Notice the pistol in the one models hand too?
The rest is the same as current fire warrior models though.
My money is on GW releasing a new dual kit where you can make either Fire Warriors (troops choice) or some new fast choice.
IMHO & hoping...
Personally I hope they are veteran fire warrior's
As long as they have shotguns & jetpacks, I don't care what they are called!
warboss wrote: I just wonder if they'll autoinclude a unit no one uses or wants like they did with the eldar and the vyper.
If the past Decurions have been any indication (Tomb Blades for Necrons, War Walkers/Vypers for Eldar, etc.), there will absolutely be an auto-include unit people didn't like. And going by the previous examples we've seen, personally I think the auto-include will be Piranhas. It fits with the theme of the past Decurions, a fast, vulnerable, unit for jumping around the board. Certainly makes more sense to have it as an actual Tau unit and not an auxiliary like Vespid or Kroot. The only other option I can think of would be Stealth Suits (thinking in terms of general units that don't see much play time and probably don't sell that much), but even they are still good, they just aren't used because the other Elite options are just so much better (speaking of which, can Stealth Suits be moved to FA please GW?)
So yeah, my prediction is Piranhas will be our forced include for Tau Decurion, but will see some kind of buff similar to Tomb Blades and Vypers (likely we'll get more weapon options like plasma rifles or missile pods, and possibly the ability to replace the gun drones like how Devilfish and the tanks can).
New weapon options would require GW to release a new kit, which isn't likely. The best you can hope for is that your mandatory Piranhas will be somewhat cheaper.
krazynadechukr wrote: The new warriors (doubt their fire) have different heads, packs (notice antenna & thrusters (?), and their guns are different from any other Tau weapon (scatter style weapon?)...
Notice the pistol in the one models hand too?
The rest is the same as current fire warrior models though.
My money is on GW releasing a new dual kit where you can make either Fire Warriors (troops choice) or some new fast choice.
IMHO & hoping...
Personally I hope they are veteran fire warrior's
As long as they have shotguns & jetpacks, I don't care what they are called!
Assault 3 range 16 pulse rifles and defensive enemy debuff grenades is my hope
New weapon options would require GW to release a new kit, which isn't likely. The best you can hope for is that your mandatory Piranhas will be somewhat cheaper.
Unfortunately you're probably right, but a man can dream right?
I love how people refer to Tomb Blades and War Walkers/Vypers as "underwhelming".
Prior to the 7th codices, they were pretty underwhelming. Never even saw a Tomb Blade model prior to 7th making them required for Decurion and them getting a buff. Same with Vypers. I would see War Walkers occasionally, but that was only from one Eldar player and only when he was making a more fun/casual list rather than a tournament list. Now all three are pretty awesome, but before this year? Not so much.
Chaos Space Marines shoudl have access ot Loyalist technology as very many of them are in fact regenades
Without going too far off-topic, that really doesn't mean that "they should have access to Loyalist technology".
Look at how the Heresy played out. Legions didn't turn traitor overnight, repainting everything and spikying it up. It was a gradual thing--and Horus along with his brothers went out of their way to ensure that the people they couldn't control were killed off before they made their big move at Isstvan.
And even then, they didn't get all of those people and some of them were those with what amounted to "the keys to the kingdom". It's not unreasonable to think that just because it says a Chapter went renegade, that it does not mean that everyone went renegade.
The Masters of the Forge(and their Techmarine underlings) reasonably might not be turning renegade alongside of the rest of those who turn renegade. The whole dual-allegiance to Mars and to the Chapter could result in the MOTF destroying his precious charges rather than letting them fall into the hands of traitors and oathbreakers.
I mean, there's literally tons of explanations beyond "because Legions didn't have it".
Makes total sense and certainly explains a lot. There is a set protocol that every techmarine learns during his training on Mars as to what do in the event that your chapter goes renegade:
1. Launch all the drop pods.
2. Disable all the grav panels on all the land speeders.
3. Blow up all the whirlwind missile launchers.
4. Overload all the plasma cannons.
5. Set all the centurion suits to self-destruct.
6. Destroy the firing mechanisms on all the chapter's storm bolters.
It's step 6 where things really tend to get bogged down. I mean, practically every transport in the chapter's armoury comes equipped with one standard, so that's a lot of storm bolters to disable. And then there's all those storm bolters for the chapter's terminator armour. No wonder most Masters of the Forge never get to step 7 (destroy chapter fleet) before they're killed by their traitorous brethren. But each storm bolter is a rare and revered example of Imperial technology and if one were ever to fall into the hands of the Archenemy the consequences would be disastrous!
The seeds of corruption come from the emperor himself for did he not create the primarchs that rebelled, so as the seeds of rebellion are hidden with in them they are hidden within the very technology he equipped them with,
but once sealed within the golden throne his malign influence was blocked, and the brand new (or rediscovered) technology the new chapters are equipped with is no longer blighted
so only those groups of marines without this new technology will fall to the ruinous powers, but nobody in the imperium sees this (or if they do they are executed for heresy)
krazynadechukr wrote: The new warriors (doubt their fire) have different heads, packs (notice antenna & thrusters (?), and their guns are different from any other Tau weapon (scatter style weapon?)...
Notice the pistol in the one models hand too?
The rest is the same as current fire warrior models though.
My money is on GW releasing a new dual kit where you can make either Fire Warriors (troops choice) or some new fast choice.
IMHO & hoping...
The base model is definitely the same. In the right corner of the picture the FWs thigh pad has the same imperfections as the current model of the same pose.
Which so long as all GW did was repackage FWs with another sprue you can count me out. The molds for the FWs are foul and there are way too many imperfections.
The slight hope is that somebody at the studio simply used old FW model bodies to get the most out of a dual kit. The other hope is that those arms, helmets, packs and shoulder guard are a upgrade kit that I can just add to the PF kit instead.
Anyone else notice the firewarrior that is only hold a pistol and moving forward has a non-standard left pauldron. I think that guy is not int he firewarrior kit, I think he meet be Fireteam leader. or a special firewarriror. Or is he already a model and I mistaken?
I'd say he's probably like this guy, would might mean this is a sort of close range, not completely gak at CC unit. Basically I3 WS3 with some sort of pulse shotgun (maybe 3 shots at 12" with pinning or something).
warboss wrote: Apparently the white dwarf that has the pics is actually a few issues in the future.
Cover said November....
Because it's Visions.
Visions comes out at the end of each month; so if the releases for Tau are in October then the Visions showing them off will be a November release(because Visions showcases off what came the month before).
If you were to take a look at the GW website right now, you would see the September Visions issue was basically nothing but Stormcast Eternals and the stuff released in August.
Also, the numberings. The XV104 is the Riptide, and the first two numbers designates the size. The XV139 is the FW superheavy, and we know it stands as tall as one of the crazy FW knights. Because of that, it's logical to assume that the Stormsurge will be approximately the same size as an Imperial Knight (normal one, not the tall FW ones).
The FW supremacy armor is KX class, which is much bigger than XV class.
The White Dwarf cover that was for the Tau said October 10. And it seemed to be the second one as it had the Ghostkeel and talked in smaller text about having rules for a special game for the Stormsurge, So likely the Stormsurge will come out the week before.
warboss wrote: Apparently the white dwarf that has the pics is actually a few issues in the future.
Cover said November....
Because it's Visions.
Visions comes out at the end of each month; so if the releases for Tau are in October then the Visions showing them off will be a November release(because Visions showcases off what came the month before).
If you were to take a look at the GW website right now, you would see the September Visions issue was basically nothing but Stormcast Eternals and the stuff released in August.
Ah, my bad. I see the White Dwarf cover says 10 October....
Merellin wrote: The White Dwarf cover that was for the Tau said October 10. And it seemed to be the second one as it had the Ghostkeel and talked in smaller text about having rules for a special game for the Stormsurge, So likely the Stormsurge will come out the week before.
At least this confirms what was already suspected: Tau will be arriving in October.
[img]
. They still look eerily similar, so I still think that the size difference should be largely negligible.
