Retallion Cadre
- 1 Commander
- 3 units of Crisis
- 1 Broadside unit
- 1 Riptide unit
Rules: Relentless
+1 BS when Deep striking
May choose to enter from reserves in turn 2 via Deep Strike. This includes Broadsides.
Heavy Retribution Cradre (see previous posts)
Infiltration Cadre
- 3 Pathfinder units
- 2 Stealth battlesuit units
- 1 Piranha unit
Rules: If one unit of the formation is destroyed, rest of the formation enters from reserve next turn automatically.
If an enemy unit gets hit by 3 or more markerights from this formation, you get a free Seeker missile hit to this unit.
Optimised Stealth Cadre (See previous posts).
Firebase Support cadre
- 2 units of battlesuits
- 1 unit Riptides
Note that they do not have to be max size like before
Rules: They formation can combine their shooting attacks and shoot as a single unit. When doing so, they get Tank and monster hunter SR.
Armored Interdiction Cadre
- 3 Units of Hammerheads
- 1 Unit of Sky Rays
Rules: Choose a point in the battlefield. When shooting to a unit at 6" or less from this point, reroll to hit.
Air Support cadre:
- 1 Sun Shark Bomber
- 1 Razorshark Strike Fighter
Rules: Ignore shaken and stunned with 2+.
Beginning of the turn, roll a D6 for each lost hull point. If you roll a 6, recover 1 HP.
Allied Advanced Cadre
- 4 units of Kroot
- 2 units of Vespids
Rules: Vespids get Infiltration and Stealth (Forests)
Kroot at 12" from Vespid units, get Obscured (Forests) instead of Stealth (Forests), and get +1 BS They all get supporting fire with other units of the formation.
Regarding the special rules: you're right. plain special rules sharing is... groudnbreaking. Saving up markerlights are already pretty good in my book.
That would make lots of sense if it was like the opposite of supporting fire, units within X" of each other can share rules and combine fire or something. Just flat out ruling across the formation, woah.
It's not even one formation, it is the entire god-damned detachment and you can get any unit in the codex just from the mandatory Core formation!
@Kanluwen Yeah the Stormsurge/Ghostkeel formation is pretty sick. I actually just realized how broken that is, wow! Get this; you take two Stormsurges in separate units (if this is allowed). You split their four weapons per Stormsurge between four targets. Whatever survives....gets big mobility penalties. Imagine taking this formation against fething IMPERIAL KNIGHTS. HOLY GAK!
The rules sharing won't be model/weapon specific rules, but unit wide rules. The one that could be good is Darkstrider. Looking at the detachment I'm not sure if there's a way to take him with it though, the only things listed are commanders and shadowsun. He might be part of one of the auxiliaries.
grazingshot wrote: The rules sharing won't be model/weapon specific rules, but unit wide rules. The one that could be good is Darkstrider. Looking at the detachment I'm not sure if there's a way to take him with it though, the only things listed are commanders and shadowsun. He might be part of one of the auxiliaries.
The buffmander can share twin-linked, tank hunter or monster hunter, and ignores cover with whatever unit it is with...
Caederes wrote: If the special rules sharing is unlimited it actually makes Tau utterly game-breaking. Remembering that the fething Core formation can take Broadsides, you can get your HYMP Broadsides to shoot at an Invisible death-star unit. This gives everyone shooting at the death-star Twin-Linked. Then, you shoot all your twin-linked Markerlights at said death-star. Depending on how many you have you should easily get like four-five tokens. Now, you are up to Ballistic Skill 4 w/ Twin-Linked plus Ignores Cover, and now you get a weapon with Shred (if there is one in the Tau codex, if there isn't then I apologize) to shoot at said unit. Whatever the unit is it is DEAD regardless of what it is, even 2++/re-rollable death-stars are going to feel the heat.
I believe there are some kind of limitation to that. I'm asking Iuchiban about it.
You have got to be kidding our formations are THAT good? whoa...
Not going to lie, the Ghostkeel+Stealth Suits formation is like prime vehicle killer material. Give the Ghostkeel the Raker and TL Fusion, 2 of the suits a Fusion, fire at a vehicle - 3 Meltas hitting rear armor even from the front and 6 high strength shots on top of it. Heck even the Bursts can wreck most vehicles when they can hit rear armor.
Imagine this against fliers too. Unless it specifies it doesnt work on fliers that is.
Also, Str D missiles.....ouch.... on one note that sucks that its limited use but on the same token... GMC = i fire all 4 turn 1 at potentially 4 different targets. 4 things just died. Byebye big bugs!
Caederes wrote: If the special rules sharing is unlimited it actually makes Tau utterly game-breaking. Remembering that the fething Core formation can take Broadsides, you can get your HYMP Broadsides to shoot at an Invisible death-star unit. This gives everyone shooting at the death-star Twin-Linked. Then, you shoot all your twin-linked Markerlights at said death-star. Depending on how many you have you should easily get like four-five tokens. Now, you are up to Ballistic Skill 4 w/ Twin-Linked plus Ignores Cover, and now you get a weapon with Shred (if there is one in the Tau codex, if there isn't then I apologize) to shoot at said unit. Whatever the unit is it is DEAD regardless of what it is, even 2++/re-rollable death-stars are going to feel the heat.
I believe there are some kind of limitation to that. I'm asking Iuchiban about it.
I really hope you are right, even if it is only markerlights it is still incredibly powerful, but if it's things like darkstriders or buffmanders effecting units of riptides or stormsurges... Just think about that for a second.
grazingshot wrote: The rules sharing won't be model/weapon specific rules, but unit wide rules. The one that could be good is Darkstrider. Looking at the detachment I'm not sure if there's a way to take him with it though, the only things listed are commanders and shadowsun. He might be part of one of the auxiliaries.
The buffmander can share twin-linked, tank hunter or monster hunter, and ignores cover with whatever unit it is with...
Vineheart01 wrote: You have got to be kidding our formations are THAT good? whoa...
Not going to lie, the Ghostkeel+Stealth Suits formation is like prime vehicle killer material. Give the Ghostkeel the Raker and TL Fusion, 2 of the suits a Fusion, fire at a vehicle - 3 Meltas hitting rear armor even from the front and 6 high strength shots on top of it. Heck even the Bursts can wreck most vehicles when they can hit rear armor.
Imagine this against fliers too. Unless it specifies it doesnt work on fliers that is.
Also, Str D missiles.....ouch.... on one note that sucks that its limited use but on the same token... GMC = i fire all 4 turn 1 at potentially 4 different targets. 4 things just died. Byebye big bugs!
Take Shadowsun with one stealth unit just for +2 fusions, even if those does not ignore cover
Tinkrr wrote: I'm not big on Forge World models, simply because it's kind-of-sort-of its own company and some people might not even know about it when it comes to more casual play.
I am always amused when I read these about Forgeworld comments of them as unofficial/kinda gw/etc... Yeah, in the past when there was a US based Forgeworld company (now out of business) GW was banning those models because they were unofficial. Then After the USA went byebye, a UK Forgeworld emerged! GW & FW finally merged (check out FW site "we are part of GW")....
Anywho,
I remember, and now I am aging myself, when I had the FW Valkyries (heavy solid resin) & they vanished from FW site. A few months later GW was making plastic kits! Might be the case here, IMHO.
He mentioned this is from the spanish book and he is translating. Dont be harsh on him if it turns out he is getting stuff a bit wrong He is well known for reliable early info but he cant be perfect, can he?
A bit sad to read that non-english Codex books seem to get released in softcover now. Maybe this is a thing for some languages?
I buy the english rules only since 1st Ed but that would be a blow for the foreign communities.
39,- EUR for a softcover book with 128 pages? I got the Waaagh Ghazghkull supplement in softcover in September (33,- EUR from GW) and the quality of the paper, cover and photo printing is not even worth 20 EUR. I would not buy such a product again. The content is good but this inhouse printed material seems to vary. The Faction Painting books are well done though - and quite cheap in comparison.
Anyway, good to see the Codex seems to turn out better than it was feared it would. Strong rules so far
Vineheart01 wrote: If you can seriously find a way to sneak a buffmander into a squad of 3 riptides, the Taudar strat just came back with a vengeance lol.
You don't need to sneak him into the Riptide squad. The moment you take a Buffmander, he is part of any unit and that unit shoots at something, the entire Tau army gets the benefits. Basically...the reason Tau stopped winning tournaments in 7th Edition is believed to be purely down to death-stars and this is generally pretty accurate. Enter Buffmander with the new detachment....bye-bye death-stars. No joke, this might be the biggest hard counter to death-stars we've seen from an army in a while that doesn't involve Stomps/Destroyer/etc.
Vineheart01 wrote: If you can seriously find a way to sneak a buffmander into a squad of 3 riptides, the Taudar strat just came back with a vengeance lol.
According to that rule sharing ehrmm.. rule. You won't need to. but a buffmander with crisis suits, fire at something and fire at the same target with riptides, stormsurges or whatever and they all share the twin-linking, tank or monster hunter and ignore cover. Have a unit with darkstrider too and they will all count the unit they are targeting as having one less toughness. If this is how it works, this will make tau cheesier than Eldar.
May be this is a bit confusing. The rule says (will try to translate as accurately as posible):
- Any time a unit of the Hunter Contigent shoots, any other unit of the same Detachment, that still can shoot can join their fire power to the attack. Those units have to shoot to the same unit, as if they were a single unit; this includes use of markerlight tokens. If 3 or more units shoot this way, they get +1 to BS.
I think is pretty clear: They can benefit for example from the Tankhunter or monster hunter as you only need a model in a unit to get this rule. Special rules that apply to weapons only do not get any boost.
The Firblade will boost all units that shoot with him, as attack is resolved as a single unit.
Very powerful.
Basically, you NEED to take a Buffmander. Take a Buffmander and it really is as broken as we thought. Jesus Christ (sorry for any offence but this is just insane).
And lol, just noticed the +1 Ballistic Skill if 3 or more units shoot at the same target. That's another buff he didn't even mention but makes this thing even MORE ridiculous!
Vineheart01 wrote: If you can seriously find a way to sneak a buffmander into a squad of 3 riptides, the Taudar strat just came back with a vengeance lol.
You don't need to sneak him into the Riptide squad. The moment you take a Buffmander, he is part of any unit and that unit shoots at something, the entire Tau army gets the benefits. Basically...the reason Tau stopped winning tournaments in 7th Edition is believed to be purely down to death-stars and this is generally pretty accurate. Enter Buffmander with the new detachment....bye-bye death-stars. No joke, this might be the biggest hard counter to death-stars we've seen from an army in a while that doesn't involve Stomps/Destroyer/etc.
If it's true it'll put a hardcounter to stupid deathstars into the meta that also competes with normal armies fairly well. It's only absolutely disgusting ruleswise if you're the guy playing a deathstar. Otherwise it's just a cool rule for massing firepower on a single unit a turn. Guess we'll see how accurate it is. Even if it's just marker lights that means you only need enough markerlights to be able to hit a deathstar to ignore the invis and you're good.
Vineheart01 wrote: If you can seriously find a way to sneak a buffmander into a squad of 3 riptides, the Taudar strat just came back with a vengeance lol.
You don't need to sneak him into the Riptide squad. The moment you take a Buffmander, he is part of any unit and that unit shoots at something, the entire Tau army gets the benefits. Basically...the reason Tau stopped winning tournaments in 7th Edition is believed to be purely down to death-stars and this is generally pretty accurate. Enter Buffmander with the new detachment....bye-bye death-stars. No joke, this might be the biggest hard counter to death-stars we've seen from an army in a while that doesn't involve Stomps/Destroyer/etc.
If it's true it'll put a hardcounter to stupid deathstars into the meta that also competes with normal armies fairly well. It's only absolutely disgusting ruleswise if you're the guy playing a deathstar. Otherwise it's just a cool rule for massing firepower on a single unit a turn. Guess we'll see how accurate it is. Even if it's just marker lights that means you only need enough markerlights to be able to hit a deathstar to ignore the invis and you're good.
Tau are very strong against other armies as it is. I mean, combine the D-Missile Stormsurge with two Skyrays shooting at four different Daemon Princes (for example). If the Daemon Princes don't have some serious luck a single Stormsurge can one-shot at least three of them in one go.
The idea behind Tau and the reason people hate playing against them is that they tend to delete entire units at a time with no say involved for the other player (guaranteed hits, Ignores Cover, high Strength/low AP). Now that you get this combined fire stuff, it makes it utterly ridiculous. Let me explain this a bit more; if you take a Buffmander in a team of three Crisis Suits where two have Target Locks, you can technically do the whole "focus fire" trick to THREE UNITS A TURN.
Okay, allow me to take a contrarian position: the new Tau codex contains nothing absurdly broken so far (still waiting on the clarification about sharing special rules)
The formations, while not restrictive, do force you to take units that would not otherwise be optimal (Piranhas, Pathfinders) and have unfortunately not made the sub-par units much better (Kroot, Vespid, Stealth Suits). The ability to combine fire and share/double markerlights means that Tau are now much stronger against deathstars but overkill against MSU.
Are the new Tau powerful? Absolutely; I'd peg them at Necron levels of power with what we currently know. But nothing stands out to me so far as being totally broken.
EDIT: Just read the clarification on rule-sharing. Buffmanders would seem to be even more powerful with their ability to provide Tank/Monster Hunter to the entire detachment, but since Ignores Cover and Twin-Linked only apply to weapons, only the Buffmander's unit can benefit from those rules. Keep in mind that we haven't see the wargear section yet, so we don't even know if Buffmanders will even still be a thing. My opinion has not changed.
TheNewBlood wrote: Okay, allow me to take a contrarian position: the new Tau codex contains nothing absurdly broken so far (still waiting on the clarification about sharing special rules)
The formations, while not restrictive, do force you to take units that would not otherwise be optimal (Piranhas, Pathfinders) and have unfortunately not made the sub-par units much better (Kroot, Vespid, Stealth Suits). The ability to combine fire and share/double markerlights means that Tau are now much stronger against deathstars but overkill against MSU.
Are the new Tau powerful? Absolutely; I'd peg them at Necron levels of power with what we currently know. But nothing stands out to me so far as being totally broken.
Umm, he clarified it. If you take a Buffmander and stick him in a unit that shoots at something, the entire army gets Twin-Linked (because it is a special rule provided by the Buffmander and not from the weapons), Ignores Cover and Tank Hunter/Monster Hunter. If you don't think that is broken when taken in addition to sharing Markerlights and getting +1 Ballistic Skill if three or more units shoot at the same target....your concept of "broken" does not line up with reality.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also something else to note....Airbursting Fragmentation Projectors/Cyclic Ion Blasters are no longer one-per-army. Say hello to dual-wielding ABF Crisis Teams with Target Locks that can obliterate three separate infantry units a turn!
MAJOR EDIT: I just checked the Signature Systems. The wording of the one that gives Twin-Linked is actually just "re-rolls to-hit", not Twin-Linked, which means it works for the entire detachment no question. Gak. GAK. GAKKKKKK
Oh my god....give a team of Crisis Suits Velocity Trackers and Target Locks. All of a sudden your entire army can Skyfire at three or more targets a turn!!!!! WHAT!? Oh god, those poor Tyranids. Those poor Flying Circus lists. Holy gakamoly.
The amount of things you can do with this stuff is ridiculous.
TheNewBlood wrote: Okay, allow me to take a contrarian position: the new Tau codex contains nothing absurdly broken so far (still waiting on the clarification about sharing special rules)
The formations, while not restrictive, do force you to take units that would not otherwise be optimal (Piranhas, Pathfinders) and have unfortunately not made the sub-par units much better (Kroot, Vespid, Stealth Suits). The ability to combine fire and share/double markerlights means that Tau are now much stronger against deathstars but overkill against MSU.
Are the new Tau powerful? Absolutely; I'd peg them at Necron levels of power with what we currently know. But nothing stands out to me so far as being totally broken.
Umm, he clarified it. If you take a Buffmander and stick him in a unit that shoots at something, the entire army gets Twin-Linked (because it is a special rule provided by the Buffmander and not from the weapons), Ignores Cover and Tank Hunter/Monster Hunter. If you don't think that is broken when taken in addition to sharing Markerlights and getting +1 Ballistic Skill if three or more units shoot at the same target....your concept of "broken" does not line up with reality.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also something else to note....Airbursting Fragmentation Projectors/Cyclic Ion Blasters are no longer one-per-army. Say hello to dual-wielding ABF Crisis Teams with Target Locks that can obliterate three separate infantry units a turn!
MAJOR EDIT: I just checked the Signature Systems. The wording of the one that gives Twin-Linked is actually just "re-rolls to-hit", not Twin-Linked, which means it works for the entire detachment no question. Gak. GAK. GAKKKKKK
Alright, my bad. I misinterpreted the phrase "applying to the unit's weapons"
Allow me to revise my opinion: Tau are now at full Gladius/Demi-Company levels of power if the Buffmander stays the same. luchiban hasn't spoiled the wargear page yet, so we don't know about whether or not Tau have to play by everyone else's rules when it comes to relics.
Caederes wrote:Tau are very strong against other armies as it is. I mean, combine the D-Missile Stormsurge with two Skyrays shooting at four different Daemon Princes (for example). If the Daemon Princes don't have some serious luck a single Stormsurge can one-shot at least three of them in one go.
The idea behind Tau and the reason people hate playing against them is that they tend to delete entire units at a time with no say involved for the other player (guaranteed hits, Ignores Cover, high Strength/low AP). Now that you get this combined fire stuff, it makes it utterly ridiculous. Let me explain this a bit more; if you take a Buffmander in a team of three Crisis Suits where two have Target Locks, you can technically do the whole "focus fire" trick to THREE UNITS A TURN.
Caederes, I really like your style. I hope you get your codex soon, so we can read more combos
Alright, my bad. I misinterpreted the phrase "applying to the unit's weapons"
Allow me to revise my opinion: Tau are now at full Gladius/Demi-Company levels of power if the Buffmander stays the same. luchiban hasn't spoiled the wargear page yet, so we don't know about whether or not Tau have to play by everyone else's rules when it comes to relics.
I was a bit rude in my post sorry! I double-checked the Signature Systems and I believe luchiban says they stayed exactly the same. The re-roll to-hit thing is just re-rolls to-hit, not twin-linked, so it does work as we think. It's jaw-dropping to say the least.
It was a trash pick because it was overpriced for being a single gun with a unique firing profile (it synergized with bursts but who takes bursts on commanders....). I could see squads of crisis suits with those things just utterly wiping people with sheer weight of wounds. Assuming we didnt lose our dual-non-twinlinked weapons option.
Also the sig system has always been reroll to hit rather than twinlinked. Quite frankly im not sure why its emphasized so much when its not 'to hits of 1' - far as i know its literally the same as twinlinked.
Something tells me the shared rules thing doesnt split with targetlocks. If it doesnt, i'd expect a FAQ real quick because thats just insane. To the point of i'd literally only pull that stunt against a certain eldar player because thats just...dumb. I'd expect it to only share with the "units target" which even with target locks is still a defined target, we just usually dont bother because typically the entire unit has targetlocks or none at all unless you use drone blobs (like me)
Flipside, if our sig systems become Relics and only 1 per model, i can easily see the M3S and CnCNode going away unless they no longer force the bearer to not shoot. Which i would be fine with that if they removed that requirement, but removed the stacking potential. Doesnt make me waste a BS5 model and i spread the love around rather than have one unit with ALL DA POWA and the rest depending on markers
Retallion Cadre
- 1 Commander
- 3 units of Crisis
- 1 Broadside unit
- 1 Riptide unit
Rules: Relentless
+1 BS when Deep striking
May choose to enter from reserves in turn 2 via Deep Strike. This includes Broadsides.
Heavy Retribution Cradre (see previous posts)
Infiltration Cadre
- 3 Pathfinder units
- 2 Stealth battlesuit units
- 1 Piranha unit
Rules: If one unit of the formation is destroyed, rest of the formation enters from reserve next turn automatically.
If an enemy unit gets hit by 3 or more markerights from this formation, you get a free Seeker missile hit to this unit.
Optimised Stealth Cadre (See previous posts).
Firebase Support cadre
- 2 units of battlesuits
- 1 unit Riptides
Note that they do not have to be max size like before
Rules: They formation can combine their shooting attacks and shoot as a single unit. When doing so, they get Tank and monster hunter SR.
Armored Interdiction Cadre
- 3 Units of Hammerheads
- 1 Unit of Sky Rays
Rules: Choose a point in the battlefield. When shooting to a unit at 6" or less from this point, reroll to hit.
Air Support cadre:
- 1 Sun Shark Bomber
- 1 Razorshark Strike Fighter
Rules: Ignore shaken and stunned with 2+.
Beginning of the turn, roll a D6 for each lost hull point. If you roll a 6, recover 1 HP.
Allied Advanced Cadre
- 4 units of Kroot
- 2 units of Vespids
Rules: Vespids get Infiltration and Stealth (Forests)
Kroot at 12" from Vespid units, get Obscured (Forests) instead of Stealth (Forests), and get +1 BS They all get supporting fire with other units of the formation.
Ah yes, time to see what works with the 'Crons
Wait, so does the Firebase Support Cadre not need Broadsides anymore? Because if I wanted to tack on a unit of Riptides to my Necrons, 2 Suits is a pretty cheap tax to do it.
Retaliation Cadre seems great, but expensive. Still, guaranteed T2 DS would slot in well with something like an Orikanstar or Wraith list.
Optimized Stealth Cadre could be pretty great. As I said, Cron's lack of special weapons sucks, so being able to add in things like Fusion Guns or the Ion Raker thing could be pretty nice.
The rest don't really work as Allied Formations. But they look freaking scary strong to fight against o.O Even being the most durable army in the game I'm pretty terrified of the dakka that can come out of this sort of army, it makes Scatbikes look tame in comparison...
Alright, my bad. I misinterpreted the phrase "applying to the unit's weapons"
Allow me to revise my opinion: Tau are now at full Gladius/Demi-Company levels of power if the Buffmander stays the same. luchiban hasn't spoiled the wargear page yet, so we don't know about whether or not Tau have to play by everyone else's rules when it comes to relics.
I was a bit rude in my post sorry! I double-checked the Signature Systems and I believe luchiban says they stayed exactly the same. The re-roll to-hit thing is just re-rolls to-hit, not twin-linked, so it does work as we think. It's jaw-dropping to say the least.
Did he mean to say "the same" in terms of rules, or "the same" in terms of points costs and restrictions?
Caederes wrote:Tau are very strong against other armies as it is. I mean, combine the D-Missile Stormsurge with two Skyrays shooting at four different Daemon Princes (for example). If the Daemon Princes don't have some serious luck a single Stormsurge can one-shot at least three of them in one go.
The idea behind Tau and the reason people hate playing against them is that they tend to delete entire units at a time with no say involved for the other player (guaranteed hits, Ignores Cover, high Strength/low AP). Now that you get this combined fire stuff, it makes it utterly ridiculous. Let me explain this a bit more; if you take a Buffmander in a team of three Crisis Suits where two have Target Locks, you can technically do the whole "focus fire" trick to THREE UNITS A TURN.
Caederes, I really like your style. I hope you get your codex soon, so we can read more combos
I try my best, I do this kind of stuff for my local gaming community and I'm already sharing these tricks with the Tau players
Vineheart01 wrote:Airbursters are normal guns now?
Oooo.....sexy....
It was a trash pick because it was overpriced for being a single gun with a unique firing profile (it synergized with bursts but who takes bursts on commanders....). I could see squads of crisis suits with those things just utterly wiping people with sheer weight of wounds. Assuming we didnt lose our dual-non-twinlinked weapons option.
Also the sig system has always been reroll to hit rather than twinlinked. Quite frankly im not sure why its emphasized so much when its not 'to hits of 1' - far as i know its literally the same as twinlinked.
Something tells me the shared rules thing doesnt split with targetlocks. If it doesnt, i'd expect a FAQ real quick because thats just insane. To the point of i'd literally only pull that stunt against a certain eldar player because thats just...dumb. I'd expect it to only share with the "units target" which even with target locks is still a defined target, we just usually dont bother because typically the entire unit has targetlocks or none at all unless you use drone blobs (like me)
I can only imagine what Crisis Teams with dual ABFs and Target Locks will be capable of....it is actually ridiculous how much they simply obliterate light infantry, like, it isn't Wyvern levels of craziness but it is darned brutal nonetheless. With current prices that unit would cost 166 points (only 2 Target Locks are necessary) for six S4 AP5 Ignores Cover Large Blasts a turn, two per unit firing at three different targets!
Alright, my bad. I misinterpreted the phrase "applying to the unit's weapons"
Allow me to revise my opinion: Tau are now at full Gladius/Demi-Company levels of power if the Buffmander stays the same. luchiban hasn't spoiled the wargear page yet, so we don't know about whether or not Tau have to play by everyone else's rules when it comes to relics.
I was a bit rude in my post sorry! I double-checked the Signature Systems and I believe luchiban says they stayed exactly the same. The re-roll to-hit thing is just re-rolls to-hit, not twin-linked, so it does work as we think. It's jaw-dropping to say the least.
Did he mean to say "the same" in terms of rules, or "the same" in terms of points costs and restrictions?
He just clarified it for us, Signature Systems are exactly the same in all regards, and the trick I pointed out (combining rules with Buffmander at three separate targets) works according to luchiban himself.
Mother of gakkiness! It's not even that pricy (get a dual-Missile Pod Crisis Team or HYMP Broadsides with Target Locks, plus Buffmander, is something like 300 point) considering the firepower the Buffmanders own unit puts out plus what it enables the rest of the army to do.
Okay I see why they didn't buff units. Our formations are flippin insane. Even the weakest of them is seriously game table worthy.
Edit
I am happy to be wrong. All those telling me to clam down were right. So whew. I like it when I'm wrong sometimes. Feel free to sig this. Your not going to find too many people as amazing as myself out there who admit they were wrong.
Also the sig system has always been reroll to hit rather than twinlinked. Quite frankly im not sure why its emphasized so much when its not 'to hits of 1' - far as i know its literally the same as twinlinked.
About the only difference is that template weapons that are twin linked reroll failed to wound. They do not get this benefit from reroll to hit abilities.
Also the Stormsurge now is worthy of its title. Str D Ap 1 missiles with expenditure of 1ML. And GW has said it can fire them all at once if it wants since each missile is its own weapon.
That's a lot of D. Like scary levels. With two of them in one alpha strike that's like 8 D Shots coming your way in one round at BS 3-5. If you rush forward with the D Cannon as well? My god.
I wouldn't worry about the target locks being applied to the overall rule. It's probably something for YMDC but I read it that you have to shoot at that target from the translation. Meaning if you shoot somewhere else you don't get the bonuses and using the target locks is shooting somewhere else.
Granted I could be wrong and we'll have to wait on the English version for full effect but that's the way I'd read it now. And I'm pretty certain the way more GT's would rule it for events. If you could basically link all the buffmander powers to your entire army and just 5pts more per model to still shoot whatever you wanted it'd be insane.
LOL i told my friend that wanted to start an IG foot army with a Clone Army theme about the airbursters. He immediately went "i kinda dont wanna do my clone army now..." rofl.
I mean, Bursts have higher strength and ignores cover on AP5 doesnt usually mean much, but a Large Blast will on average hit as many models as Bursts have shots and sometimes more. Vastly worth the lost of 1 strength and gain the ability to snipe things out with barrage.
The weapon was only terrible in the current dex because you could only get 1 and it had to be a commander. I actually forgot it existed until i saw it on the stormsurge profile.
Gamgee wrote: Okay I see why they didn't buff units. Our formations are flippin insane. Even the weakest of them is seriously game table worthy.
Edit
I am happy to be wrong. All those telling me to clam down were right. So whew. I like it when I'm wrong sometimes. Feel free to sig this. Your not going to find too many people as amazing as myself out there who admit they were wrong.
Good on you mate, it takes a lot of courage to admit to that.
On other forums I see the general consensus on the Stormsurge has taken an about-face. Generally it was already a 50-50 split on whether it was good or weak, now pretty much everyone is being drawn in by the Destroyer buff.
Gamgee wrote: Also the Stormsurge now is worthy of its title. Str D Ap 1 missiles with expenditure of 1ML. And GW has said it can fire them all at once if it wants since each missile is its own weapon.
That's a lot of D. Like scary levels. With two of them in one alpha strike that's like 8 D Shots coming your way in one round at BS 3-5. If you rush forward with the D Cannon as well? My god.
Rulebook says otherwise - that said I have seen emails saying it can fire all it's weapons and I think most tournaments rule it that way too.
It's frightening to think about. I think I'm going to be painting my Orks for a while.
Gamgee wrote: Okay I see why they didn't buff units. Our formations are flippin insane. Even the weakest of them is seriously game table worthy.
Edit
I am happy to be wrong. All those telling me to clam down were right. So whew. I like it when I'm wrong sometimes. Feel free to sig this. Your not going to find too many people as amazing as myself out there who admit they were wrong.
Your wish is my command, Samwise.
And don't feel too bad, we all need to be told to calm down sometime.
Also the sig system has always been reroll to hit rather than twinlinked. Quite frankly im not sure why its emphasized so much when its not 'to hits of 1' - far as i know its literally the same as twinlinked.
About the only difference is that template weapons that are twin linked reroll failed to wound. They do not get this benefit from reroll to hit abilities.
With Crisis being able to field AFPs now, I hardly see Flame Crisis being used anymore - specially that the blasts will get something from the CCN, while the flamers didn't.
Gamgee wrote: Okay I see why they didn't buff units. Our formations are flippin insane. Even the weakest of them is seriously game table worthy.
Edit
I am happy to be wrong. All those telling me to clam down were right. So whew. I like it when I'm wrong sometimes. Feel free to sig this. Your not going to find too many people as amazing as myself out there who admit they were wrong.
Good on you mate, it takes a lot of courage to admit to that.
On other forums I see the general consensus on the Stormsurge has taken an about-face. Generally it was already a 50-50 split on whether it was good or weak, now pretty much everyone is being drawn in by the Destroyer buff.
There's still one guy on Warseer who just described the Stormsurge as 'underwhelming'. I guess there's no satisfying some people.
Twice now WD people have been asked can it fire all its guns. Twice they have asked GW or used some authority to say. Yes it can. Since it isn't a rule specific to the Storm then it must apply to all GMC.
The vast majority of tournaments rule it that way as well.
At this point it's only the die hard contingent of deniers really that oppose the ruling trying to twist it to their advantage.
It is worth noting that the White Dwarf team has also said in one of those same e-mails that GW are going to be releasing a FAQ to make it fully official. As it stands, I think 90% of players play it that they can shoot all their weapons anyway.
I'm actually still in disbelief about how good this codex is. I don't play filthy Tau (glory to the Emperor) but damn is this exciting, they are going to be ridiculously popular if this all pans out as we can see it now. Can anyone think of any detachment bonus nearly as strong as the Tau one in the context of a Buffmander giving his bonuses to units shooting at three or more different units (abusing Target Locks in the Buffmander's unit makes this possible)?
Caederes wrote: It is worth noting that the White Dwarf team has also said in one of those same e-mails that GW are going to be releasing a FAQ to make it fully official. As it stands, I think 90% of players play it that they can shoot all their weapons anyway.
GMCs being unable to fire more than 2 guns has been a rule interpretation flop for eons. Almost all of them have more than 2 guns, and usually theyre small arms (look at the Garg Squiggoth for instance....so many guns). Thats why nobody that wasnt just trying to shaft someone's GMCs believed they could only fire 2 guns because it made no sense to give damn near every GMC more than 2 guns if they cant use them - unless they were all viable guns instead of multiple small arms guns and 1-2 BIG guns.
Stormsurge literally would never fire its D-Missiles if they were only S8 AP1 like we thought before, SMS, or Airburster. Why? Because why on earth would you fire them over its main gun or the cluster rockets?
Im glad they finally said something about that because it irritates me when people claim GMCs cant fire all their guns. Prime example why i play logically not RAW.
Also you have to remember, its only Str D with a markerlight. Im assuming but probably wrong about this, but im wagering its not fired like a Seeker Missile at the same time.
Skyray's main perk is it can fire all 6 missiles with only 1 markerlight by buffing itself to BS5. Surges dont have this benefit because 1 ML = 1 Str D missile. You would need 4-8 markerlights on multiple units to fire that many missiles in a single turn. Most tau armies struggle to get marks on more than 2 targets.
Its still nuts to think we can get that many Str D missiles though lol.
Vineheart01 wrote: GMCs being unable to fire more than 2 guns has been a rule interpretation flop for eons. Almost all of them have more than 2 guns, and usually theyre small arms (look at the Garg Squiggoth for instance....so many guns). Thats why nobody that wasnt just trying to shaft someone's GMCs believed they could only fire 2 guns because it made no sense to give damn near every GMC more than 2 guns if they cant use them - unless they were all viable guns instead of multiple small arms guns and 1-2 BIG guns.
Stormsurge literally would never fire its D-Missiles if they were only S8 AP1 like we thought before, SMS, or Airburster. Why? Because why on earth would you fire them over its main gun or the cluster rockets?
Im glad they finally said something about that because it irritates me when people claim GMCs cant fire all their guns. Prime example why i play logically not RAW.
Also you have to remember, its only Str D with a markerlight. Im assuming but probably wrong about this, but im wagering its not fired like a Seeker Missile at the same time.
Skyray's main perk is it can fire all 6 missiles with only 1 markerlight by buffing itself to BS5. Surges dont have this benefit because 1 ML = 1 Str D missile. You would need 4-8 markerlights on multiple units to fire that many missiles in a single turn. Most tau armies struggle to get marks on more than 2 targets.
Its still nuts to think we can get that many Str D missiles though lol.
If you're using the detachment it is actually really easy to get lots of Markerlight hits simply because of the Buffmander and the fact that you can take three separate Pathfinder units as part of the Core formation (which a Buffmander is also a part of) meaning you can get the best value for points out of the detachment.
Just thought about other use for Coldstar: if any other unit fires with him against a flying thing, the unit will get Skyfire. So all you need now is Coldstar or just one model with VT that opts to fire against the flying thing. No need to spend 20p through your entire units of Broadsides/Riptides.
Frozocrone wrote: We should probably leave that RAW/RAI for YMDC (but even then not bother, it's been posted too many times).
Which formations look most likely to see competitive games?
Hard to say. The detachment is pretty much an auto-include at this point which means the Core formation will be very popular obviously (it helps that it is really strong too). Aside from that, the Heavy Retribution Cadre is a big one based on what the actual minimum requirements are (luchiban didn't specify yet). The Optimized Stealth Cadre could be very popular even despite how sucky Stealth Teams usually are, they get insane buffs in that formation. The Armored Interdiction Cadre seems good but the Retaliation Cadre looks pretty nasty. They are all pretty darned good formations aside from maybe the flyer and auxilliary ones.
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Vector Strike wrote: Just thought about other use for Coldstar: if any other unit fires with him against a flying thing, the unit will get Skyfire. So all you need now is Coldstar or just one model with VT that opts to fire against the flying thing. No need to spend 20p through your entire units of Broadsides/Riptides.
I pointed this out earlier as well, you just need one Velocity Tracker and all of a sudden your entire army has Skyfire It's really funny for a unit with Target Locks though as you can army-wide Skyfire at multiple targets...bye-bye Pentyrant!
It's amazing how many tournaments lists are seemingly hard-countered by the new Tau!
Vector Strike wrote: Just thought about other use for Coldstar: if any other unit fires with him against a flying thing, the unit will get Skyfire. So all you need now is Coldstar or just one model with VT that opts to fire against the flying thing. No need to spend 20p through your entire units of Broadsides/Riptides.
Speaking of which, did anyone order a slice of army wide Interceptor pie?
Vector Strike wrote: Just thought about other use for Coldstar: if any other unit fires with him against a flying thing, the unit will get Skyfire. So all you need now is Coldstar or just one model with VT that opts to fire against the flying thing. No need to spend 20p through your entire units of Broadsides/Riptides.
No, model specific rules like skyfire do not confer, only unit specific ones. Now if warlord traits are the same and you get the once per game one that give your warlord and his unit skyfire, that will.
Vector Strike wrote: Just thought about other use for Coldstar: if any other unit fires with him against a flying thing, the unit will get Skyfire. So all you need now is Coldstar or just one model with VT that opts to fire against the flying thing. No need to spend 20p through your entire units of Broadsides/Riptides.
I like the way you think!
On a similar note, hopefully Darkstrider can be included in a Hunter Contingent. -1T is a big deal when you're getting shot at by...well every weapon in the Tau arsenal.
Frozocrone wrote:We should probably leave that RAW/RAI for YMDC (but even then not bother, it's been posted too many times).
Which formations look most likely to see competitive games?
In my point of view: the core one, Retaliation, Armoured Interdiction, Optimised Stealth, heavy Retribution and Firebase Support. Infiltration, Auxiliaries and Air Support look quite meh to me.
grazingshot wrote:
Vector Strike wrote: Just thought about other use for Coldstar: if any other unit fires with him against a flying thing, the unit will get Skyfire. So all you need now is Coldstar or just one model with VT that opts to fire against the flying thing. No need to spend 20p through your entire units of Broadsides/Riptides.
No, model specific rules like skyfire do not confer, only unit specific ones. Now if warlord traits are the same and you get the once per game one that give your warlord and his unit skyfire, that will.
Vector Strike wrote: Just thought about other use for Coldstar: if any other unit fires with him against a flying thing, the unit will get Skyfire. So all you need now is Coldstar or just one model with VT that opts to fire against the flying thing. No need to spend 20p through your entire units of Broadsides/Riptides.
Speaking of which, did anyone order a slice of army wide Interceptor pie?
No idea how you would share Interceptor since you have to have the rule to attempt to fire to begin with. If you cant initiate the shot you cant benefit from the shared rules by firing at the same unit.
Skyfire thing is kinda funny though. Could be done with a random suit with VT's though. edit; Nvm
Vector Strike wrote: Just thought about other use for Coldstar: if any other unit fires with him against a flying thing, the unit will get Skyfire. So all you need now is Coldstar or just one model with VT that opts to fire against the flying thing. No need to spend 20p through your entire units of Broadsides/Riptides.
Speaking of which, did anyone order a slice of army wide Interceptor pie?
No idea how you would share Interceptor since you have to have the rule to attempt to fire to begin with. If you cant initiate the shot you cant benefit from the shared rules by firing at the same unit.
Skyfire thing is kinda funny though. Could be done with a random suit with VT's though.
edit; Nvm
Could use the Firebase Support Cadre with everything having VTs and give everybody tank and monster hunter...
The Skyfire trick should still work if you use a Coldstar though, right? It is a unit with Skyfire because of its unit type, or am I reading too much into that?
I also just noticed that you don't need the Retalation formation to get mobile Broadsides. The wording of Heavy weapons doesn't stop them from being able to fire at full Ballistic Skill after making a Run move via the Core formation, it only stops them if they moved in the Movement phase. Sure it is only D6" movement but doing that while still getting to fire at full Ballistic Skill is awesome.
Caederes wrote: The Skyfire trick should still work if you use a Coldstar though, right? It is a unit with Skyfire because of its unit type, or am I reading too much into that?
A FMC may choose to fire as skyfire, the rule for it does not say that their unit gains skyfire, just that the model does which is why it won't work.
Ah fair enough, that would've been just a little bit too good as it would make flyer-based armies virtually worthless. Still, Buffmander buffed units with VTs will still shred flyers like no tomorrow as tends to be the case with Tau.
This also means Interceptor is still widely available and super cheap, meaning lots of reserve-based builds will still get trounced by a well designed Tau list. The dumb thing about the army is that you can bring all the toys (Stormsurges/Riptides/etc) in the Core formation meaning you can easily get away with a cheap Auxiliary and still have the really juicy stuff. The formations themselves are all really good too and add a lot to a standard Tau list.
Caederes wrote: It's a great rule to be fair. It makes Railgun Hammerheads much better,
No it does not. Unit of 3 Railheads is expensive and cumbersone one-trick pony of an unit. All the tanks problems remain - terrible movement, no synergy with weapons loadouts, crappy wargear etc. Furthermore, they are terribly BORING and static unit and not the way Tau should be played. I don't own 3 Hammerheads so they can sit next to each other and shoot 1 times per turn at same target.
Devilfishes will still suck due to pretty much same reasons which make Hammerheads suck, the fliers will apparently still suck (though it matters little, they're so fugly hardly anyone uses them), the Vespid and the Kroot will still suck.
To summarize, they added craploads of gimmicks to change or buff the units which were popular, and did jack all to change units which actually needed changing. Thumbs down. Way down.
Railsides should have a Sub-munition type shot like the Railhead has. Not the same profile by any means but least so its not a wasted gun when its prime target isnt around (blast S5 AP4 perhaps?) But, wishlisting is kinda done now lol o well.
Railheads are not bad. Theyre just not game-makers like oldschool railsides were. Not every unit has to be ludicrously powerful to be viable. I use a railhead every game, only reason i dont take more is FOC limitations. That just went away. I need to assemble my other hammerhead. I wanted to do some fancy electronic stuff to it but im kinda changing my mind on that.
Caederes wrote: It's a great rule to be fair. It makes Railgun Hammerheads much better,
No it does not. Unit of 3 Railheads is expensive and cumbersone one-trick pony of an unit. All the tanks problems remain - terrible movement, no synergy with weapons loadouts, crappy wargear etc. Furthermore, they are terribly BORING and static unit and not the way Tau should be played. I don't own 3 Hammerheads so they can sit next to each other and shoot 1 times per turn at same target.
Devilfishes will still suck due to pretty much same reasons which make Hammerheads suck, the fliers will apparently still suck (though it matters little, they're so fugly hardly anyone uses them), the Vespid and the Kroot will still suck.
To summarize, they added craploads of gimmicks to change or buff the units which were popular, and did jack all to change units which actually needed changing. Thumbs down. Way down.
I'm sorry, my statement was that "It makes Railgun Hammerheads much better".....which it obviously does. How is my statement not true?
The formation that gives tank hunter/monster hunter helps them but again it's not as versatile a weapon as the HYMP is. Still in a more casual game I could now see myself using them where as before they were so niche.
Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote: They will probably only share special rules that whole units benefit from (prefered enemy etc.) Not every special rule out there.
I think the idea is if they Count as being a Single Unit for rules purposes, then any special rule that affects an entire unit would be shared. For example, like you said, preferred enemy only requires one model to have it, but the entire unit benefits. The signature systems on a buffmander say that his unit gets the rerolls to hit, ignores cover. He himself gets special rules from the PENchip, but they're the kinds of rules that are shared like preferred enemy, tank hunter, stubborn.
At face value, the entire tau army can now conceivably benefit from a single buffmander in the shooting phase, albeit for a single enemy target. With the proper shooting weapons firing, that's downright scary.
Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote: They will probably only share special rules that whole units benefit from (prefered enemy etc.) Not every special rule out there.
This still fully enables the Buffmander though as all of the Signature Systems specify "unit".
Of course, if it turns out that there ARE restrictions to the way it works....but the wording of "they are treated as being the same unit for all purposes" (paraphrasing) makes it pretty clear that it will work as we think.....anyway, if it is limited then it will still be a powerful but not overtly ridiculous buff. Buffmander bubble-shooting sounds broken but even if that isn't legal this will still help Tau massively for dealing with death-stars, plus the shared Markerlights is really darned good.
Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote: They will probably only share special rules that whole units benefit from (prefered enemy etc.) Not every special rule out there.
I think the idea is if they Count as being a Single Unit for rules purposes, then any special rule that affects an entire unit would be shared. For example, like you said, preferred enemy only requires one model to have it, but the entire unit benefits. The signature systems on a buffmander say that his unit gets the rerolls to hit, ignores cover. He himself gets special rules from the PENchip, but they're the kinds of rules that are shared like preferred enemy, tank hunter, stubborn.
At face value, the entire tau army can now conceivably benefit from a single buffmander in the shooting phase, albeit for a single enemy target. With the proper shooting weapons firing, that's downright scary.
Nope, you get Target Locks on to the Buffmanders unit and shoot at three targets. Add Stormsurges into the mix for maximum multi-unit shooting cheese efficiency. Basically, you can obliterate three units a turn with the Buffmander benefits and if it does work the way I think it does with the Stormsurges then you can still have lots of units spare to shoot at other stuff.
Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote: They will probably only share special rules that whole units benefit from (prefered enemy etc.) Not every special rule out there.
I think the idea is if they Count as being a Single Unit for rules purposes, then any special rule that affects an entire unit would be shared. For example, like you said, preferred enemy only requires one model to have it, but the entire unit benefits. The signature systems on a buffmander say that his unit gets the rerolls to hit, ignores cover. He himself gets special rules from the PENchip, but they're the kinds of rules that are shared like preferred enemy, tank hunter, stubborn.
At face value, the entire tau army can now conceivably benefit from a single buffmander in the shooting phase, albeit for a single enemy target. With the proper shooting weapons firing, that's downright scary.
Nope, you get Target Locks on to the Buffmanders unit and shoot at three targets. Add Stormsurges into the mix for maximum multi-unit shooting cheese efficiency. Basically, you can obliterate three units a turn with the Buffmander benefits and if it does work the way I think it does with the Stormsurges then you can still have lots of units spare to shoot at other stuff.
We will see when the book hits, but based on the description I read it seems you pick a unit to shoot at an enemy, and additional units to shoot counting as part of the same unit. Target locks are model specific, letting them branch off their firepower at other units - but that itself would not trigger another cascade of "and also pick more of your own units to count as the same unit" because it just gets too confusing at that point. Granted, the models themselves with target locks would be getting all the benefits of the buffmander, so a couple of crisis teams with missile pods would do some serious rhino eradication while the rest of the army focused on a death star or somesuch.
Stormsurge wouldnt spread the buffmander powers. Its the buffmanders unit that originates the effects and he cant join a GMC.
The Surge wouldnt gain the rules, only the effect. So any units he fires at wouldnt spread the effect again because he doesnt actually HAVE the rule.
That would be absolute WAAC material if someone tried to pull that one off.
Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote: They will probably only share special rules that whole units benefit from (prefered enemy etc.) Not every special rule out there.
I think the idea is if they Count as being a Single Unit for rules purposes, then any special rule that affects an entire unit would be shared. For example, like you said, preferred enemy only requires one model to have it, but the entire unit benefits. The signature systems on a buffmander say that his unit gets the rerolls to hit, ignores cover. He himself gets special rules from the PENchip, but they're the kinds of rules that are shared like preferred enemy, tank hunter, stubborn.
At face value, the entire tau army can now conceivably benefit from a single buffmander in the shooting phase, albeit for a single enemy target. With the proper shooting weapons firing, that's downright scary.
Nope, you get Target Locks on to the Buffmanders unit and shoot at three targets. Add Stormsurges into the mix for maximum multi-unit shooting cheese efficiency. Basically, you can obliterate three units a turn with the Buffmander benefits and if it does work the way I think it does with the Stormsurges then you can still have lots of units spare to shoot at other stuff.
We will see when the book hits, but based on the description I read it seems you pick a unit to shoot at an enemy, and additional units to shoot counting as part of the same unit. Target locks are model specific, letting them branch off their firepower at other units - but that itself would not trigger another cascade of "and also pick more of your own units to count as the same unit" because it just gets too confusing at that point. Granted, the models themselves with target locks would be getting all the benefits of the buffmander, so a couple of crisis teams with missile pods would do some serious rhino eradication while the rest of the army focused on a death star or somesuch.
Correct, TLs are model based. For this to work, each unit would have to have every model that wants to shoot at a different unit equipped with one.
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Vineheart01 wrote: Stormsurge wouldnt spread the buffmander powers. Its the buffmanders unit that originates the effects and he cant join a GMC.
The Surge wouldnt gain the rules, only the effect. So any units he fires at wouldnt spread the effect again because he doesnt actually HAVE the rule.
That would be absolute WAAC material if someone tried to pull that one off.
Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote: They will probably only share special rules that whole units benefit from (prefered enemy etc.) Not every special rule out there.
I think the idea is if they Count as being a Single Unit for rules purposes, then any special rule that affects an entire unit would be shared. For example, like you said, preferred enemy only requires one model to have it, but the entire unit benefits. The signature systems on a buffmander say that his unit gets the rerolls to hit, ignores cover. He himself gets special rules from the PENchip, but they're the kinds of rules that are shared like preferred enemy, tank hunter, stubborn.
At face value, the entire tau army can now conceivably benefit from a single buffmander in the shooting phase, albeit for a single enemy target. With the proper shooting weapons firing, that's downright scary.
Nope, you get Target Locks on to the Buffmanders unit and shoot at three targets. Add Stormsurges into the mix for maximum multi-unit shooting cheese efficiency. Basically, you can obliterate three units a turn with the Buffmander benefits and if it does work the way I think it does with the Stormsurges then you can still have lots of units spare to shoot at other stuff.
We will see when the book hits, but based on the description I read it seems you pick a unit to shoot at an enemy, and additional units to shoot counting as part of the same unit. Target locks are model specific, letting them branch off their firepower at other units - but that itself would not trigger another cascade of "and also pick more of your own units to count as the same unit" because it just gets too confusing at that point. Granted, the models themselves with target locks would be getting all the benefits of the buffmander, so a couple of crisis teams with missile pods would do some serious rhino eradication while the rest of the army focused on a death star or somesuch.
"Any time a unit of the Hunter Contingent shoots" - so in our example, Buffmander + three Crisis Suits w/ Target Locks - "any other unit of the same detachment that can still shoot can join their firepower to the (shooting) attack" - now we look at the Target Lock rule that states "A model with a Target Lock can shoot at a different unit to the rest of his unit" and move on to this - "those units have to shoot at the same unit, as if they were a single unit". Your Crisis Team is making a single shooting attack at three separate units which satisfies the first criteria. You then have separate units combining their own guns to each individual Crisis Suits' shooting attack; if you have 2 Fire Warrior units supporting one Crisis Suit, they are shooting at the same unit. If you also simultaneously have 2 Pathfinder units supporting a second Crisis Suit, they are also shooting at the same unit as that Crisis Suit. If there was a "primary target" rule as for Split Fire then this wouldn't work...but unless I'm horribly mistaken, per the rules it does work.
Might be horribly wrong as I am very tired but it seems to work perfectly fine so far. Honestly I pray it doesn't work like that as it would be fething stupid and broken.
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Vineheart01 wrote: Stormsurge wouldnt spread the buffmander powers. Its the buffmanders unit that originates the effects and he cant join a GMC.
The Surge wouldnt gain the rules, only the effect. So any units he fires at wouldnt spread the effect again because he doesnt actually HAVE the rule.
That would be absolute WAAC material if someone tried to pull that one off.
That wasn't what I meant. If the Target Lock thing actually works, a single Stormsurge could legally fire at all three separate units being hit by the Target Locks with three different weapons which would make it really easy to get the +1 Ballistic Skill bonus.
I don't play Tau so it would be up to my friends to work it out, but it is best to work this stuff out now with everyone so that there are no potentially violent arguments when the codex comes out!
Again FTR I'm trying to work the kinks out of this rule so we can get a clear idea of what it actually means and in what ways it is restricted, as I can't believe how broken it would be if it works as I describe.
Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote: They will probably only share special rules that whole units benefit from (prefered enemy etc.) Not every special rule out there.
I think the idea is if they Count as being a Single Unit for rules purposes, then any special rule that affects an entire unit would be shared. For example, like you said, preferred enemy only requires one model to have it, but the entire unit benefits. The signature systems on a buffmander say that his unit gets the rerolls to hit, ignores cover. He himself gets special rules from the PENchip, but they're the kinds of rules that are shared like preferred enemy, tank hunter, stubborn.
At face value, the entire tau army can now conceivably benefit from a single buffmander in the shooting phase, albeit for a single enemy target. With the proper shooting weapons firing, that's downright scary.
Nope, you get Target Locks on to the Buffmanders unit and shoot at three targets. Add Stormsurges into the mix for maximum multi-unit shooting cheese efficiency. Basically, you can obliterate three units a turn with the Buffmander benefits and if it does work the way I think it does with the Stormsurges then you can still have lots of units spare to shoot at other stuff.
We will see when the book hits, but based on the description I read it seems you pick a unit to shoot at an enemy, and additional units to shoot counting as part of the same unit. Target locks are model specific, letting them branch off their firepower at other units - but that itself would not trigger another cascade of "and also pick more of your own units to count as the same unit" because it just gets too confusing at that point. Granted, the models themselves with target locks would be getting all the benefits of the buffmander, so a couple of crisis teams with missile pods would do some serious rhino eradication while the rest of the army focused on a death star or somesuch.
"Any time a unit of the Hunter Contingent shoots" - so in our example, Buffmander + three Crisis Suits w/ Target Locks - "any other unit of the same detachment that can still shoot can join their firepower to the (shooting) attack" - now we look at the Target Lock rule that states "A model with a Target Lock can shoot at a different unit to the rest of his unit" and move on to this - "those units have to shoot at the same unit, as if they were a single unit". Your Crisis Team is making a single shooting attack at three separate units which satisfies the first criteria. You then have separate units combining their own guns to each individual Crisis Suits' shooting attack; if you have 2 Fire Warrior units supporting one Crisis Suit, they are shooting at the same unit. If you also simultaneously have 2 Pathfinder units supporting a second Crisis Suit, they are also shooting at the same unit as that Crisis Suit. If there was a "primary target" rule as for Split Fire then this wouldn't work...but unless I'm horribly mistaken, per the rules it does work.
Might be horribly wrong as I am very tired but it seems to work perfectly fine so far. Honestly I pray it doesn't work like that as it would be fething stupid and broken.
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Vineheart01 wrote: Stormsurge wouldnt spread the buffmander powers. Its the buffmanders unit that originates the effects and he cant join a GMC.
The Surge wouldnt gain the rules, only the effect. So any units he fires at wouldnt spread the effect again because he doesnt actually HAVE the rule. That would be absolute WAAC material if someone tried to pull that one off.
That wasn't what I meant. If the Target Lock thing actually works, a single Stormsurge could legally fire at all three separate units being hit by the Target Locks with three different weapons which would make it really easy to get the +1 Ballistic Skill bonus.
I don't play Tau so it would be up to my friends to work it out, but it is best to work this stuff out now with everyone so that there are no potentially violent arguments when the codex comes out! Again FTR I'm trying to work the kinks out of this rule so we can get a clear idea of what it actually means and in what ways it is restricted, as I can't believe how broken it would be if it works as I describe.
Don't think this will work. The "shooting attack" is made at the primary target of the unit. The TL makes a shooting attack at a different unit. The target of the UNITS shooting attack is still that first target, not the one the TL guy shoots at.
Here's the thing though, Target Locks aren't worded like Split Fire. There's no mention of "shooting attacks" which is what presumably determines the usage of the combined-shooting rule. Basically, if the rule is worded as luchiban describes and Target Locks keep the same wording, I think the trick does work.
And for all we know they've reworded target locks in the new book. So it's still not confirmed yet, but if the way you're saying it works is true, I would never play it that way with my tau. It's powerful enough at face value, there's really no need to go digging and rules-lawyering mid-game to try and glean over 9000 status from it.
disclaimer: i know not all gamers would feel the way i do about this, but the gamers i play against are all like-minded so locally i shouldn't have any trouble with this.
tetrisphreak wrote: And for all we know they've reworded target locks in the new book. So it's still not confirmed yet, but if the way you're saying it works is true, I would never play it that way with my tau. It's powerful enough at face value, there's really no need to go digging and rules-lawyering mid-game to try and glean over 9000 status from it.
disclaimer: i know not all gamers would feel the way i do about this, but the gamers i play against are all like-minded so locally i shouldn't have any trouble with this.
See that's just the thing, for casual games it won't make a difference as no-one would play it that way and be able to maintain their gaming group. For tournaments however it could outright jack Tau up to the top spot in terms of power. I can definitely see this getting super-FAQ'd by either GW or tournament organizers really quickly if the trick works as it is stupid on so many levels.
At the very least, even if it doesn't work with Target Locks we can at least enjoy a Space Marine/Necron level codex! Will be a good challenge for my Skyhammer/Gladius, the detachment paired with a Stormsurge is going to nasty as all heck.
When you shoot at someone in the shooting phase, you make a shooting attack. The sequence for using TLs is:
1. Declare the enemy unit the TL unit is shooting at.
2. TL suits then declare what units they are going to shoot at, seperate from the rest of the unit.
The TL shots don't count as another unit shooting, which from the leak is what triggers the sharing special rule. "Any time a UNIT of the Hunter Contingent shoots..."
Is the Crisis unit firing? Yes, at the target unit. You can pile on to that unit.
Is the TL suit a UNIT firing? No, it is a model in the crisis unit allowed to choose a seperate target.
Caederes wrote: It's a great rule to be fair. It makes Railgun Hammerheads much better,
No it does not. Unit of 3 Railheads is expensive and cumbersone one-trick pony of an unit. All the tanks problems remain - terrible movement, no synergy with weapons loadouts, crappy wargear etc. Furthermore, they are terribly BORING and static unit and not the way Tau should be played. I don't own 3 Hammerheads so they can sit next to each other and shoot 1 times per turn at same target.
That's not the way YOU want to play Tau. Many players find ok to do gunlines, other rather a mix and some rather full tilt at the enemy.
Units of hammerheads can now fire 3 S8 AP3 blasts/9 S7 AP3 shots or 3 S6 AP4 blasts/3 S10 AP1 - and all at BS5. If taken in an AIC, they even re-roll to hit against enemies. Re-roll with blasts = win. Oh, and if you get them inside a Hunter Contigent, they'll get special rules from other units and at least 2 other units firing in tandem, you'll get +1BS. BS6 Hammerheads aren't too bad, are they?
A bit costly, of course, but better than the previous one.
And I share with you the disappointment with the lack of changes to base kroot, vespid, pathfinders, stealth suits... but now these are past waters. Time to move on and accept what we have now - which isn't bad!
Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote: They will probably only share special rules that whole units benefit from (prefered enemy etc.) Not every special rule out there.
I think the idea is if they Count as being a Single Unit for rules purposes, then any special rule that affects an entire unit would be shared. For example, like you said, preferred enemy only requires one model to have it, but the entire unit benefits. The signature systems on a buffmander say that his unit gets the rerolls to hit, ignores cover. He himself gets special rules from the PENchip, but they're the kinds of rules that are shared like preferred enemy, tank hunter, stubborn.
At face value, the entire tau army can now conceivably benefit from a single buffmander in the shooting phase, albeit for a single enemy target. With the proper shooting weapons firing, that's downright scary.
Nope, you get Target Locks on to the Buffmanders unit and shoot at three targets. Add Stormsurges into the mix for maximum multi-unit shooting cheese efficiency. Basically, you can obliterate three units a turn with the Buffmander benefits and if it does work the way I think it does with the Stormsurges then you can still have lots of units spare to shoot at other stuff.
We will see when the book hits, but based on the description I read it seems you pick a unit to shoot at an enemy, and additional units to shoot counting as part of the same unit. Target locks are model specific, letting them branch off their firepower at other units - but that itself would not trigger another cascade of "and also pick more of your own units to count as the same unit" because it just gets too confusing at that point. Granted, the models themselves with target locks would be getting all the benefits of the buffmander, so a couple of crisis teams with missile pods would do some serious rhino eradication while the rest of the army focused on a death star or somesuch.
"Any time a unit of the Hunter Contingent shoots" - so in our example, Buffmander + three Crisis Suits w/ Target Locks - "any other unit of the same detachment that can still shoot can join their firepower to the (shooting) attack" - now we look at the Target Lock rule that states "A model with a Target Lock can shoot at a different unit to the rest of his unit" and move on to this - "those units have to shoot at the same unit, as if they were a single unit". Your Crisis Team is making a single shooting attack at three separate units which satisfies the first criteria. You then have separate units combining their own guns to each individual Crisis Suits' shooting attack; if you have 2 Fire Warrior units supporting one Crisis Suit, they are shooting at the same unit. If you also simultaneously have 2 Pathfinder units supporting a second Crisis Suit, they are also shooting at the same unit as that Crisis Suit. If there was a "primary target" rule as for Split Fire then this wouldn't work...but unless I'm horribly mistaken, per the rules it does work.
Might be horribly wrong as I am very tired but it seems to work perfectly fine so far. Honestly I pray it doesn't work like that as it would be fething stupid and broken.
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Vineheart01 wrote: Stormsurge wouldnt spread the buffmander powers. Its the buffmanders unit that originates the effects and he cant join a GMC.
The Surge wouldnt gain the rules, only the effect. So any units he fires at wouldnt spread the effect again because he doesnt actually HAVE the rule. That would be absolute WAAC material if someone tried to pull that one off.
That wasn't what I meant. If the Target Lock thing actually works, a single Stormsurge could legally fire at all three separate units being hit by the Target Locks with three different weapons which would make it really easy to get the +1 Ballistic Skill bonus.
I don't play Tau so it would be up to my friends to work it out, but it is best to work this stuff out now with everyone so that there are no potentially violent arguments when the codex comes out! Again FTR I'm trying to work the kinks out of this rule so we can get a clear idea of what it actually means and in what ways it is restricted, as I can't believe how broken it would be if it works as I describe.
Don't think this will work. The "shooting attack" is made at the primary target of the unit. The TL makes a shooting attack at a different unit. The target of the UNITS shooting attack is still that first target, not the one the TL guy shoots at.
Thats what im assuming its going to be. If its not that way in the codex its bound to be FAQ'd about as quick as Missile Drones did to include primary target. No matter what rule you have to splitfire, you still claim a primary target. People usually ignore that as Tau because it rarely means anything. This will be the 3rd time it does matter, the first being Shadowsun's splitfire rule and 2nd being drone blobs.
Also i guess i misunderstood the Stormsurge thing. Assuming TargetLocks spread the buffmander effects, which i doubt, the stormsurge would indeed have the benefits if he fired at the same 3 units (but not other units)
Samurai_Eduh wrote: When you shoot at someone in the shooting phase, you make a shooting attack. The sequence for using TLs is:
1. Declare the enemy unit the TL unit is shooting at.
2. TL suits then declare what units they are going to shoot at, seperate from the rest of the unit.
The TL shots don't count as another unit shooting, which from the leak is what triggers the sharing special rule. "Any time a UNIT of the Hunter Contingent shoots..."
Is the Crisis unit firing? Yes, at the target unit. You can pile on to that unit.
Is the TL suit a UNIT firing? No, it is a model in the crisis unit allowed to choose a seperate target.
But that's the thing, an individual Crisis Suit is still part of a unit. The unit is just shooting at more than one target (like a Gargantuan Creature in a way).
As @Vineheart01 points out, it probably needs an FAQ or further clarification in the English release. There's zero mention of "primary unit" or "shooting attack" in the Target Lock rules which is what potentially breaks the way this ability works.
Good arguments though, I think I can convince my local Tau players that the trick doesn't work now and thus not get my butt handed to me so badly
tetrisphreak wrote: And for all we know they've reworded target locks in the new book. So it's still not confirmed yet, but if the way you're saying it works is true, I would never play it that way with my tau. It's powerful enough at face value, there's really no need to go digging and rules-lawyering mid-game to try and glean over 9000 status from it.
disclaimer: i know not all gamers would feel the way i do about this, but the gamers i play against are all like-minded so locally i shouldn't have any trouble with this.
See that's just the thing, for casual games it won't make a difference as no-one would play it that way and be able to maintain their gaming group. For tournaments however it could outright jack Tau up to the top spot in terms of power. I can definitely see this getting super-FAQ'd by either GW or tournament organizers really quickly if the trick works as it is stupid on so many levels.
At the very least, even if it doesn't work with Target Locks we can at least enjoy a Space Marine/Necron level codex! Will be a good challenge for my Skyhammer/Gladius, the detachment paired with a Stormsurge is going to nasty as all heck.
I can would put money on Reece and Frankie over at FLG will have it FAQ'd for their ITC rules that it would only apply for ganging up on a single unit as most likely is RAI. They dont' comprise EVERY big tournament in 40k, but lately most organized events are falling underneath their banner, and their underlying motto for any ruling or rules change they make is to help make the game more fair, balanced, and fun for all participants.
Samurai_Eduh wrote: When you shoot at someone in the shooting phase, you make a shooting attack. The sequence for using TLs is:
1. Declare the enemy unit the TL unit is shooting at.
2. TL suits then declare what units they are going to shoot at, seperate from the rest of the unit.
The TL shots don't count as another unit shooting, which from the leak is what triggers the sharing special rule. "Any time a UNIT of the Hunter Contingent shoots..."
Is the Crisis unit firing? Yes, at the target unit. You can pile on to that unit.
Is the TL suit a UNIT firing? No, it is a model in the crisis unit allowed to choose a seperate target.
But that's the thing, an individual Crisis Suit is still part of a unit. The unit is just shooting at more than one target (like a Gargantuan Creature in a way).
As @Vineheart01 points out, it probably needs an FAQ or further clarification in the English release. There's zero mention of "primary unit" or "shooting attack" in the Target Lock rules which is what potentially breaks the way this ability works.
Good arguments though, I think I can convince my local Tau players that the trick doesn't work now and thus not get my butt handed to me so badly
It is part of the unit, but it is not THE unit. I'm a Tau player and I wouldn't play it the way your describing. Hope you can convince your local players!
The sheer fact that he can basically give a unit the Mark of Death now is insanely beneficial on its own. Theres no way its suppose to work via targetlocks because that literally says "3 units a turn will die barring really unlucky dice"
Even if that IS the way it works, i'd never use it that way because thats just bs.
Caederes wrote: The Skyfire trick should still work if you use a Coldstar though, right? It is a unit with Skyfire because of its unit type, or am I reading too much into that?
A FMC may choose to fire as skyfire, the rule for it does not say that their unit gains skyfire, just that the model does which is why it won't work.
Pretty sure it only can choose skyfire if it is gliding (is that the one where they are up in the air?)
I'm really glad that our new dex basically gives the middle finger to deathstars. The bad thing is, it also gives the middle finger to everything else.
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Gamgee wrote: What the gak is happening? Am I in some sort of alternate universe?
Do the hunter contingent and hunter cadre overlap? It looks like he has basic for the Hunter cadre and a basic has to be included in the hunter contingent right? Little confused.
Hunter Contingent is the Decurion's name. it's the overarching mega formation that contains all the others.
the Hunter Cadre is the Basic formation that builds into a Contingent. Being able to run then shoot, and 12" support fire for the core of your army is Really, Really good.
Caederes wrote: The Skyfire trick should still work if you use a Coldstar though, right? It is a unit with Skyfire because of its unit type, or am I reading too much into that?
A FMC may choose to fire as skyfire, the rule for it does not say that their unit gains skyfire, just that the model does which is why it won't work.
Pretty sure it only can choose skyfire if it is gliding (is that the one where they are up in the air?)
Swooping
Gamgee wrote:What the gak is happening? Am I in some sort of alternate universe?
It's like... Mr. Roundtree is actually trying to do a bit of market research!
1: Crisis unit declares a target
2: You decide which units will join in on shooting of this target
3: The rest of the shooting (including declaring splitfires and target locks) happens.
Of course, until we see some English leaks, there's no point getting super worked up over it. And if it is accurate, then there's no point in getting super worked up over it because you can't change it.
For your local gaming club, don't be a dick. For a Tournament, that's for the TOs to decide.
In fact, rereading it, it seems to be:
1: You declare you are going to make a combined shooting attack, and select the units that will be shooting in this singular attack.
2: Your combined unit selects a primary target.
3: Any models that have target lock, or any models you wish to split fire with, may choose to do so.
So, as always, unless you are playing an ITC game against Tau (since second turn always wins in ITC, yo!), you probably want to get first turn and have some way to smack down that Crisis Commander. Or at least no way for him to legally target you, which probably is a bit trickier then hitting him with an orbital bombardment or some other shenanigans.
And if he hides everything in the back out of range, and you won first deployment, be sure to give him first turn, since you can do that in 7th, and make him move forward.
And for the love of god, play with some real terrain. That blocks line of sight. Playing on cue ball the world might be fun for the (rare) d-bag, but insist on using the rulebook version of terrain deployment if you have to, since it's the rulebook, and thus it is holy.
On another note, I'm excited for Tau players, loathing the future rules conundrums, and looking forward to seeing how it actually translate onto a 1500-2000 point table.
EDIT: Don't all targets have to be declared before you fire a GCs weapons? For example, you pick two targets, and each of them getting a destroyer missile, and you can't change your mind after the roll to throw another destroyer missile, as you've already done target declaration and such.
Sounds good to me guys, I think my local players are happy with that ruling. If I had Tau I wouldn't play it that way either but...well let's just say my local scene is cheese-central!
Caederes wrote: Sounds good to me guys, I think my local players are happy with that ruling. If I had Tau I wouldn't play it that way either but...well let's just say my local scene is cheese-central!
Focusing your army's shooting onto a single unit is pretty cheesy enough as it is.
lest not we forget, either, that you get the BS bonus when you group 3 or more units at a time - you could easily shoot your units in Triads, designed for specific targets, and put a pretty big hurt on more than just a single enemy unit each turn that way.
Edit - BS4 tau is all i've ever hoped for in a dex for the longest time. This plus existing markerlight rules is just extra gravy.
A thing I noticed and I'd like to hear your opinion, guys:
As combining fire means units will fire as if they were one, putting there a ML source is a bad idea, right? As you can only use network markerlights with your own shooting. Only Remoras and Sky Rays have that, if I'm not mistaken... So it would be a good idea to use 3 ML units to fire at an enemy (netting them +1BS) and only then selecting other 2+ units to fire at the marked target, right?
As combining fire means units will fire as if they were one, putting there a ML source is a bad idea, right? As you can only use network markerlights with your own shooting. Only Remoras and Sky Rays have that, if I'm not mistaken... So it would be a good idea to use 3 ML units to fire at an enemy (netting them +1BS) and only then selecting other 2+ units to fire at the marked target, right?
Yes. Or include a stationary skyray in your grouped shooting attack, netting 2 BS5 networked markerlights, that would then increase the lowly tau fire warriors, suits, everything to a potential BS6
Samurai_Eduh wrote: When you shoot at someone in the shooting phase, you make a shooting attack. The sequence for using TLs is:
1. Declare the enemy unit the TL unit is shooting at.
2. TL suits then declare what units they are going to shoot at, seperate from the rest of the unit.
The TL shots don't count as another unit shooting, which from the leak is what triggers the sharing special rule. "Any time a UNIT of the Hunter Contingent shoots..."
Is the Crisis unit firing? Yes, at the target unit. You can pile on to that unit.
Is the TL suit a UNIT firing? No, it is a model in the crisis unit allowed to choose a seperate target.
This is correct. The "Target" of a shooting attack is what the core unit declares it is shooting at. Usage of Target Locks is a per-model decision to take their fire and apply it against a different enemy unit within range. It does not make the initial unit have multiple overall targets.
Once you've declared the initial unit (presumably with the unit that contains the buffmander) any other unit you have within the detachment that has not already shot (and is within range) may choose to join into that specific instance of shooting against the same target. Presumably if these other units that are joining in have their own target locks or abilities to fire at multiple targets, they may do so - although this does require a better look at the rules and I would not be shocked if it requires an FAQ hot-fix or tourney level specific ruling. It may only allow them to fire at the same target similar to how supporting fire functions in overwatch.
I cannot wait to play with the Retaliation Formation. A Commander, 3 Crisis Teams, A Broadside Team, and a Riptide Unit all guaranteed to come in turn 2 Deep Striking with +1 BS for the turn? And the Broadsides get relentless AND can Deep Strike? Sign. Me. Up. This is exactly what I wanted from my battlesuit formation.
This is probably where I'll stick my Coldstar, as it gets him close enough to make good use of his high output BC, it guarantees he gets to start swooping, and he won't be my warlord so if he dies, no big deal. Crisis Teams will get my usual loadouts (1 team with dual Fusions and 2 TLs, 1 team with MPs and possibly a support system, and 1 team whatever I feel like, most likely PRs). Broadsides will get HYMPs and SMS (though I might actually try playing with PRs for once since they'll finally be close enough to use them!) and do all the things I want Broadsides to do, namely be a mobile 36" radius bubble of S7 death. Probably will stick with only one Riptide, MAYBE two depending on what else I bring, but I doubt I will every bring three. This formation is gonna get very expensive very fast, and three Riptides w/ IA run 555 minimum, 570 to give them TLs to get maximum use out of them, and 675 to give them my normal loadout (IA, SMS, Stim, and EWO or TL).
Very satisfied with this bad boy. I cannot wait to Deep Strike an FMC Commander, 3 teams of 3 Crisis Suits, a 3 man relentless Broadside team, and at least one Riptide (All at BS4 for a turn!) all around my opponent's army and just say "Deal with it."
GI_Redshirt wrote: I cannot wait to play with the Retaliation Formation. A Commander, 3 Crisis Teams, A Broadside Team, and a Riptide Unit all guaranteed to come in turn 2 Deep Striking with +1 BS for the turn? And the Broadsides get relentless AND can Deep Strike? Sign. Me. Up. This is exactly what I wanted from my battlesuit formation.
This is probably where I'll stick my Coldstar, as it gets him close enough to make good use of his high output BC, it guarantees he gets to start swooping, and he won't be my warlord so if he dies, no big deal. Crisis Teams will get my usual loadouts (1 team with dual Fusions and 2 TLs, 1 team with MPs and possibly a support system, and 1 team whatever I feel like, most likely PRs). Broadsides will get HYMPs and SMS (though I might actually try playing with PRs for once since they'll finally be close enough to use them!) and do all the things I want Broadsides to do, namely be a mobile 36" radius bubble of S7 death. Probably will stick with only one Riptide, MAYBE two depending on what else I bring, but I doubt I will every bring three. This formation is gonna get very expensive very fast, and three Riptides w/ IA run 555 minimum, 570 to give them TLs to get maximum use out of them, and 675 to give them my normal loadout (IA, SMS, Stim, and EWO or TL).
Very satisfied with this bad boy. I cannot wait to Deep Strike an FMC Commander, 3 teams of 3 Crisis Suits, a 3 man relentless Broadside team, and at least one Riptide (All at BS4 for a turn!) all around my opponent's army and just say "Deal with it."
Pair it with an optimised stealth cadre and put teleport homers on the stealth teams. That would be helpful, yes?
Caederes wrote: Sounds good to me guys, I think my local players are happy with that ruling. If I had Tau I wouldn't play it that way either but...well let's just say my local scene is cheese-central!
I mean, RAW, a Split Fire attack is declared as a separate shooting attack, so when you declare it you can get the Hunter Contingent bonus. Like this:
You have some units: A B C D E F and G. The enemy has units X Y and Z
G has Split Fire on two models, so in normal circumstances can fire at 3 different targets.
Model 1 in G Split Fires into enemy X. A and B join, meaning that you gain the bonuses of A, B, and G into enemy unit X.
Model 2 in G Split Fires into enemy Y. C and D join, meaning that you gain the bonuses of C, D, and G into enemy unit Y.
The rest of the models in G fire normally into enemy Z. E and F join, meaning that you gain the bonuses of E, F, and G into enemy unit Z.
You don't get the bonuses of all 7 units against all 3 enemy units. Each Split Fire is a separate shooting attack. However, if unit G has a bunch of special rules built in, then you can spread those USRs against 3 different targets.
This might be changed, but that's how I would interpret it. And I'm not even a Tau player
Very satisfied with this bad boy. I cannot wait to Deep Strike an FMC Commander, 3 teams of 3 Crisis Suits, a 3 man relentless Broadside team, and at least one Riptide (All at BS4 for a turn!) all around my opponent's army and just say "Deal with it."
If you field 3 riptides and fire with them at the same target of any other unit, they'll become BS5 (Fire Team being shared). If 3 units fire that way... BS6 (as long as you're in a Hunter Contingent)
Caederes wrote: Sounds good to me guys, I think my local players are happy with that ruling. If I had Tau I wouldn't play it that way either but...well let's just say my local scene is cheese-central!
I mean, RAW, a Split Fire attack is declared as a separate shooting attack, so when you declare it you can get the Hunter Contingent bonus. Like this:
You have some units: A B C D E F and G. The enemy has units X Y and Z
G has Split Fire on two models, so in normal circumstances can fire at 3 different targets.
Model 1 in G Split Fires into enemy X. A and B join, meaning that you gain the bonuses of A, B, and G into enemy unit X.
Model 2 in G Split Fires into enemy Y. C and D join, meaning that you gain the bonuses of C, D, and G into enemy unit Y.
The rest of the models in G fire normally into enemy Z. E and F join, meaning that you gain the bonuses of E, F, and G into enemy unit Z.
You don't get the bonuses of all 7 units against all 3 enemy units. Each Split Fire is a separate shooting attack. However, if unit G has a bunch of special rules built in, then you can spread those USRs against 3 different targets.
This might be changed, but that's how I would interpret it. And I'm not even a Tau player
EBWOP:
Wait, does Target Lock give Split Fire or is it a separate rule?
Currently, it's a separate rule. Split fire allows 1 model in the unit to divert fire, that's it. Target lock says the equipped model may fire at a different target than the rest of his unit.
Caederes wrote: Sounds good to me guys, I think my local players are happy with that ruling. If I had Tau I wouldn't play it that way either but...well let's just say my local scene is cheese-central!
I mean, RAW, a Split Fire attack is declared as a separate shooting attack, so when you declare it you can get the Hunter Contingent bonus. Like this:
You have some units: A B C D E F and G. The enemy has units X Y and Z
G has Split Fire on two models, so in normal circumstances can fire at 3 different targets.
Model 1 in G Split Fires into enemy X. A and B join, meaning that you gain the bonuses of A, B, and G into enemy unit X.
Model 2 in G Split Fires into enemy Y. C and D join, meaning that you gain the bonuses of C, D, and G into enemy unit Y.
The rest of the models in G fire normally into enemy Z. E and F join, meaning that you gain the bonuses of E, F, and G into enemy unit Z.
You don't get the bonuses of all 7 units against all 3 enemy units. Each Split Fire is a separate shooting attack. However, if unit G has a bunch of special rules built in, then you can spread those USRs against 3 different targets.
This might be changed, but that's how I would interpret it. And I'm not even a Tau player
It is a seperate shooting attack, but its not another unit making a shooting attack. The primary target of unit G would still be unit Z and therefore thats the only unit that bonuses could be used against.
Focus rest of army into one homogenous BS5 Ignores Cover mass,
Remove enemy deathstar unit from table.
I mean, many Deathstars have other things than Cover (high T, good Invuln saves, rerollable saves, Invis, etc), but yeah it's going to be pretty brutal.
Has there been any sighting of Farsight yet? I'm guessing FSE hasn't been rolled back into the main book, but I'm wondering if it hasn't been removed completely.
I'm a bit worried because Shadowsun and Aun'Va have been mentioned, but there's no sign of the man in red. Plus, it seems like the retaliation cadre is perfectly sized to let you field Farsight and his merry band. Is there any indication the Enclave book's still valid, or is this formation a token, "here, now you didn't waste all that money building The Eight."?
I'm guesing he's has to still be there as you can still buy him from the GW webstore.
- Hunter Cadre gives Supporting Fire 12". Does that mean units without it get it (vehicles, mostly) or do you still need to buy the upgrade? If no upgrade needed, they wouldn't be limited to S5 weapons, would they?
- As the combined firing does not depend on your BS, 2 Jinking Devilfishes could combine fire with their cargo to grant them the +1BS for combining 3+ units. It would be good with Breachers.
- What's the benefit of the Command Formation? Still missing that one.
- Heavy Retribution Cadre do squat to Jetbikes' turbo-boost. maybe asking for a FAQ?
GI_Redshirt wrote: I cannot wait to play with the Retaliation Formation. A Commander, 3 Crisis Teams, A Broadside Team, and a Riptide Unit all guaranteed to come in turn 2 Deep Striking with +1 BS for the turn? And the Broadsides get relentless AND can Deep Strike? Sign. Me. Up. This is exactly what I wanted from my battlesuit formation.
This is probably where I'll stick my Coldstar, as it gets him close enough to make good use of his high output BC, it guarantees he gets to start swooping, and he won't be my warlord so if he dies, no big deal. Crisis Teams will get my usual loadouts (1 team with dual Fusions and 2 TLs, 1 team with MPs and possibly a support system, and 1 team whatever I feel like, most likely PRs). Broadsides will get HYMPs and SMS (though I might actually try playing with PRs for once since they'll finally be close enough to use them!) and do all the things I want Broadsides to do, namely be a mobile 36" radius bubble of S7 death. Probably will stick with only one Riptide, MAYBE two depending on what else I bring, but I doubt I will every bring three. This formation is gonna get very expensive very fast, and three Riptides w/ IA run 555 minimum, 570 to give them TLs to get maximum use out of them, and 675 to give them my normal loadout (IA, SMS, Stim, and EWO or TL).
Very satisfied with this bad boy. I cannot wait to Deep Strike an FMC Commander, 3 teams of 3 Crisis Suits, a 3 man relentless Broadside team, and at least one Riptide (All at BS4 for a turn!) all around my opponent's army and just say "Deal with it."
Pair it with an optimised stealth cadre and put teleport homers on the stealth teams. That would be helpful, yes?
Could be, though it would be expensive, cause you have the Ghostkeels in there too. Doubt you could run both and have them be as effective as possible in a Hunter Contingent, but you could easily do so in a CAD with an ethereal and 2 FW squads, maybe in Devilfish depending on the points.
If you field 3 riptides and fire with them at the same target of any other unit, they'll become BS5 (Fire Team being shared). If 3 units fire that way... BS6 (as long as you're in a Hunter Contingent)
A good point, and I had thought about that. Problem is, with the units kitted out the way I want them to be, That's gonna run me 1538 points for just the formation (1418 if I give the Riptides no support systems, which I hate to do). With a barebones Hunter Cadre (naked Commander, 3 5 man breacher squads, a 4 man marker drone squad, and a single broadside to fill the formation requirements), that's 1751 points with naked Riptides, 1871 with my Riptides kitted out properly. The formation itself would be freaking terrifying when it came in turn 2, but they would have no markerlight support, and the rest of my army would be completely useless. It would bank on the Retaliation Cadre completely annihilating my opponent's army the turn they come in, cause after that they're gonna be BS3 with no marker support (BS4 on the Riptides). Even with the Contingent special rules, that's a serious blow. I'm also all but guaranteed to give up First Blood and Warlord and will have no Ob Sec, so even with 6 units that have a pretty good chance of surviving to the end of the game, a single Tac Marine could steal an objective from my Riptides. I'm not a huge fan of putting all my eggs in one basket, which this list would do. Everything would be riding on the whole formation coming in without mishaps, and doing enough damage turn 2 that the enemy cannot recover. I don't really see it working more than once against an opponent.
Running it in a CAD, yeah I could easily see taking 3 Riptides in this formation. In the Hunter Contingent, it's just too expensive. Probably gonna run one Riptide in the formation, and use the extra points to get a 3 man Ghostkeel team in the Hunter Cadre. Maybe run 2 Riptides if I find the Ghostkeels to be lacking (which I highly doubt I will).
I'm starting to think that the Hunter Contingent's bonus for shared special rules is limited to the Hunter Cadre, ala the Space Marines/Dark Angels book where the Detachment bonus only affects the Core choice.
Kanluwen wrote: I'm starting to think that the Hunter Contingent's bonus for shared special rules is limited to the Hunter Cadre, ala the Space Marines/Dark Angels book where the Detachment bonus only affects the Core choice.
Hunter Contingent benefit isn't inherently "shared rules" - it's join units together when shooting and count them as a single unit. That's like the Decurion's +1 Reanimation roll bonus.
Hunter Cadre, as the core - it's benefit is 12" supporting fire, and Run then Shoot. That's like the Demi-Company's +1 Tactical Doctrine per game bonus.
Vector Strike wrote: Yes, I think as an add-on to a CAD. I use many FW things, so outside testing I'm not gonna field Hunter Cadre.
You know, I said the same thing about the Decurion when it first came out... but dang is it hard to say no to free rules after a while.
I rather work in a mix: CAD + Formations. While (and if) FW doesn't update its units to work within Hunter Contingent, I'll need a CAD anyway. Cheap Ethereal (as you need TWO commanders to get the attention of Ethereal-senpai in a Contigent), 2 Strikers and the rest I fill with FW stuff. Retaliation and AIC alreay cover what I have from GW
Kanluwen wrote: I'm starting to think that the Hunter Contingent's bonus for shared special rules is limited to the Hunter Cadre, ala the Space Marines/Dark Angels book where the Detachment bonus only affects the Core choice.
Hunter Contingent benefit isn't inherently "shared rules" - it's join units together when shooting and count them as a single unit. That's like the Decurion's +1 Reanimation roll bonus.
Hunter Cadre, as the core - it's benefit is 12" supporting fire, and Run then Shoot. That's like the Demi-Company's +1 Tactical Doctrine per game bonus.
And if you read the benefit for the Gladius Strike Force Detachment, it makes it so that the units in the two Demi-Companies get free Dedicated Transports if they meet a certain criteria.
Co'tor Shas wrote: Ultra-niche? Hardly. It's a great model (especially when compared to the codex flyers), has strong (but fair) rules, and is an asset to any tau army. It's pretty much the go-to tau flier.
There isn't a lot of flyer love these days, though, and most people won't blow the big bucks on a FW model unless it's truly outstanding (like a thunderhawk) or really special for rules.
It's nit hard to imagine that this isn't a popular model .. After all, how many have you seen IRL?
100% of the tau armies in my area have one.
Although that doesn't mean much because I'm the only tau player.
Interesting thought on the formation that shares rules:
If multiple units firing at one unit (3 min I think) count as one unit then you will need a unit with networked marker lights to get marker light benefits. As soon as the unit with marker lights fires it is part of the "mega firing unit" and a unit can not benefit from its own marker lights. I think the sniper unit just became an auto take with this formation.
Kanluwen wrote: I'm starting to think that the Hunter Contingent's bonus for shared special rules is limited to the Hunter Cadre, ala the Space Marines/Dark Angels book where the Detachment bonus only affects the Core choice.
Hunter Contingent benefit isn't inherently "shared rules" - it's join units together when shooting and count them as a single unit. That's like the Decurion's +1 Reanimation roll bonus.
Hunter Cadre, as the core - it's benefit is 12" supporting fire, and Run then Shoot. That's like the Demi-Company's +1 Tactical Doctrine per game bonus.
And if you read the benefit for the Gladius Strike Force Detachment, it makes it so that the units in the two Demi-Companies get free Dedicated Transports if they meet a certain criteria.
I'm going on the (risky) assumption that had the command benefit for combining shooting attacks only applied to the core formation, Iuchiban on warseer would have mentioned it when he revealed it to the warseer forum.
Kanluwen wrote: I'm starting to think that the Hunter Contingent's bonus for shared special rules is limited to the Hunter Cadre, ala the Space Marines/Dark Angels book where the Detachment bonus only affects the Core choice.
Hunter Contingent benefit isn't inherently "shared rules" - it's join units together when shooting and count them as a single unit. That's like the Decurion's +1 Reanimation roll bonus.
Hunter Cadre, as the core - it's benefit is 12" supporting fire, and Run then Shoot. That's like the Demi-Company's +1 Tactical Doctrine per game bonus.
And if you read the benefit for the Gladius Strike Force Detachment, it makes it so that the units in the two Demi-Companies get free Dedicated Transports if they meet a certain criteria.
I'm going on the (risky) assumption that had the command benefit for combining shooting attacks only applied to the core formation, Iuchiban on warseer would have mentioned it when he revealed it to the warseer forum.
He had a few instances of having to correct himself and made a note of his English not being so great to begin with.
Fishboy wrote:Interesting thought on the formation that shares rules:
If multiple units firing at one unit (3 min I think) count as one unit then you will need a unit with networked marker lights to get marker light benefits. As soon as the unit with marker lights fires it is part of the "mega firing unit" and a unit can not benefit from its own marker lights. I think the sniper unit just became an auto take with this formation.
Am I mistaken?
You njust have to let markerlight units to fire before the others. Then you combine units and use the markerlights that already exist
Fishboy wrote: Interesting thought on the formation that shares rules:
If multiple units firing at one unit (3 min I think) count as one unit then you will need a unit with networked marker lights to get marker light benefits. As soon as the unit with marker lights fires it is part of the "mega firing unit" and a unit can not benefit from its own marker lights. I think the sniper unit just became an auto take with this formation.
Am I mistaken?
I think you are correct, in the sense you don't want to have Pathfinders as part of the "mega unit" so to speak, and you are focusing 4 units on a target. Pathfinders shoot first, light up the target unit, then the other 3 combine fire spreading the marker light and other bonuses between them.
Fishboy wrote: Interesting thought on the formation that shares rules:
If multiple units firing at one unit (3 min I think) count as one unit then you will need a unit with networked marker lights to get marker light benefits. As soon as the unit with marker lights fires it is part of the "mega firing unit" and a unit can not benefit from its own marker lights. I think the sniper unit just became an auto take with this formation.
Am I mistaken?
The way he worded his post, it made it clear that it was something you chose to do at any point when a unit fired.
So if you have Pathfinders put Markerlights on target first? You can choose not to fire the "mega pewpew" right at that moment.
You then fire a unit of Broadsides with HRRs. At this point, you then choose to also use Markerlight benefits(Scour and Pinpoint x2).
You then opt to do your "mega pewpew", adding in units that have not fired already that turn.
Fishboy wrote: Interesting thought on the formation that shares rules:
If multiple units firing at one unit (3 min I think) count as one unit then you will need a unit with networked marker lights to get marker light benefits. As soon as the unit with marker lights fires it is part of the "mega firing unit" and a unit can not benefit from its own marker lights. I think the sniper unit just became an auto take with this formation.
Am I mistaken?
The way he worded his post, it made it clear that it was something you chose to do at any point when a unit fired.
So if you have Pathfinders put Markerlights on target first? You can choose not to fire the "mega pewpew" right at that moment.
You then fire a unit of Broadsides with HRRs. At this point, you then choose to also use Markerlight benefits(Scour and Pinpoint x2).
You then opt to do your "mega pewpew", adding in units that have not fired already that turn.
Yeah but as soon as you start adding units to the attack, they count as one unit, and as that "unit" is the one that fired the markerlights, it can use them unless networked. So you would have to have the pathfinders fire first as thier own unit. Then, the HYMP Broadsides would fire, using the markerlights laid down by the pathfinders, then add units 2 and 3 to that attack.
Fishboy wrote: Interesting thought on the formation that shares rules:
If multiple units firing at one unit (3 min I think) count as one unit then you will need a unit with networked marker lights to get marker light benefits. As soon as the unit with marker lights fires it is part of the "mega firing unit" and a unit can not benefit from its own marker lights. I think the sniper unit just became an auto take with this formation.
Am I mistaken?
The way he worded his post, it made it clear that it was something you chose to do at any point when a unit fired.
So if you have Pathfinders put Markerlights on target first? You can choose not to fire the "mega pewpew" right at that moment.
You then fire a unit of Broadsides with HRRs. At this point, you then choose to also use Markerlight benefits(Scour and Pinpoint x2).
You then opt to do your "mega pewpew", adding in units that have not fired already that turn.
Yeah but as soon as you start adding units to the attack, they count as one unit, and as that "unit" is the one that fired the markerlights, it can use them unless networked.
Read what I wrote.
Iuchiban posted that any firing unit which joins into these attacks gains the same special rules/Markerlight bonuses that the initially firing unit got. If you opt to fire the Broadsides, gaining Scour and Pinpoint from the Markerlight tokens, and then add in the mega pewpew from the remaining units--you're not the unit that fired the Markerlights.
Fishboy wrote: Interesting thought on the formation that shares rules:
If multiple units firing at one unit (3 min I think) count as one unit then you will need a unit with networked marker lights to get marker light benefits. As soon as the unit with marker lights fires it is part of the "mega firing unit" and a unit can not benefit from its own marker lights. I think the sniper unit just became an auto take with this formation.
Am I mistaken?
The way he worded his post, it made it clear that it was something you chose to do at any point when a unit fired.
So if you have Pathfinders put Markerlights on target first? You can choose not to fire the "mega pewpew" right at that moment.
You then fire a unit of Broadsides with HRRs. At this point, you then choose to also use Markerlight benefits(Scour and Pinpoint x2).
You then opt to do your "mega pewpew", adding in units that have not fired already that turn.
Yeah but as soon as you start adding units to the attack, they count as one unit, and as that "unit" is the one that fired the markerlights, it can use them unless networked.
Read what I wrote.
Iuchiban posted that any firing unit which joins into these attacks gains the same special rules/Markerlight bonuses that the initially firing unit got. If you opt to fire the Broadsides, gaining Scour and Pinpoint from the Markerlight tokens, and then add in the mega pewpew from the remaining units--you're not the unit that fired the Markerlights.
Still not quite sure about one thing. Do you have to declare which units merge into the "superunit" before any of them fire, or can you keep adding additional units as needed one at a time?
JimOnMars wrote: Still not quite sure about one thing. Do you have to declare which units merge into the "superunit" before any of them fire, or can you keep adding additional units as needed one at a time?
All firing declared before to hits are rolled within a single unit, So I would assume it's the same for super unit. Guesswork until we see the actual rule.
JimOnMars wrote: Still not quite sure about one thing. Do you have to declare which units merge into the "superunit" before any of them fire, or can you keep adding additional units as needed one at a time?
All firing declared before to hits are rolled within a single unit, So I would assume it's the same for super unit. Guesswork until we see the actual rule.
This. Plus it's good form to call your shot before you take it so there's no confusion or "Gotcha!" tactics in the game. I hate Gotcha tactics.
Tinkrr wrote: I'm not big on Forge World models, simply because it's kind-of-sort-of its own company and some people might not even know about it when it comes to more casual play.
I am always amused when I read these about Forgeworld comments of them as unofficial/kinda gw/etc... Yeah, in the past when there was a US based Forgeworld company (now out of business) GW was banning those models because they were unofficial. Then After the USA went byebye, a UK Forgeworld emerged! GW & FW finally merged (check out FW site "we are part of GW")....
Anywho,
I remember, and now I am aging myself, when I had the FW Valkyries (heavy solid resin) & they vanished from FW site. A few months later GW was making plastic kits! Might be the case here, IMHO.
Actually, I'm not saying they are "kind of a GW company" I'm saying they are "kind of almost their own company". The difference being that while they are officially part of GW, there are instances where they aren't treated properly, almost like a "separate but equal" mentality as opposed to a unified front.
I know I harp on this a lot lately, but as long as stuff like this exists: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/664955.page , there just can't be a world in which they are treated as one company, despite how they may be one officially.
And while I understand that the summary of this is:
It's very much a case by case basis. It's not a company policy to not allow FW products in their stores.
The problem isn't whether or not there is or isn't a company policy to not allow FW products in their store, but rather that there isn't a company policy that says "You must allow FW product in our stores" at least for non-tournament based activities, as tournaments can vary in format and restriction.
JimOnMars wrote: Still not quite sure about one thing. Do you have to declare which units merge into the "superunit" before any of them fire, or can you keep adding additional units as needed one at a time?
All firing declared before to hits are rolled within a single unit, So I would assume it's the same for super unit. Guesswork until we see the actual rule.
This. Plus it's good form to call your shot before you take it so there's no confusion or "Gotcha!" tactics in the game. I hate Gotcha tactics.
Thumbs up to this in general. When you are firing a unit, garg creature, super heavy, something with target locks and/or split fire, always ALWAYS fully list all weapons and their targets before rolling dice. Otherwise you are gaming the system by resolving weapons at your own pace and declaring secondary targetting after the fact (once you already know how the previous shot(s) have resolved) In a Tournament setting if it happens more than once I will always notify the TO of an opponent essentially gaming the rules. It may not be resolved in my game, but if more than one report like that comes in during the course of a tournament you can easily see the person doing it lose points or even get disqualified.
Of course in a friendly setting I just make sure to walk people who aren't doing it right through their shooting a bit to make sure they get properly into the swing of proper play.
Back on topic. I'm curious to hear the minimum point cost for the Breacher squads if you wanted to minimize your points cost in the troops slot. Any word on that yet?
Back on topic. I'm curious to hear the minimum point cost for the Breacher squads if you wanted to minimize your points cost in the troops slot. Any word on that yet?
Some people ban FW because of the price tag, saying that only people with big bucks can get them and thus get the unfair advantages they tend to offer most of the time. Price of the model isnt what deters me from it, its the vastly outdated and just as expensive rulebook.
Though these days thats a pretty moot statement. Lot of normal GW stuff costs as much or more as most FW stuff now. Only exceptions being the REALLY big stuff like the Ta'unar or any Titan.
Quite frankly i wish FW would just merge into GW officially, as in the website goes away and everything. Have any non-normal unit just come with its rules/has a mini book on the side you can get for it. That way they can keep making models and not have to release "experimental rules" or a completely new IA
Breachers cost identical to Strikers (the normal firewarriors). This is of course without the drones, meaning no invul save, shas'ui, turret, or bonding knives. Remember they dont come with that drone, they buy it via 10pts for the Shas'ui then 12pts for 1 drone from the list (might as well get a gun drone or a redundant guardian drone at that point)
Tinkrr wrote: I'm not big on Forge World models, simply because it's kind-of-sort-of its own company and some people might not even know about it when it comes to more casual play.
I am always amused when I read these about Forgeworld comments of them as unofficial/kinda gw/etc... Yeah, in the past when there was a US based Forgeworld company (now out of business) GW was banning those models because they were unofficial. Then After the USA went byebye, a UK Forgeworld emerged! GW & FW finally merged (check out FW site "we are part of GW")....
Anywho,
I remember, and now I am aging myself, when I had the FW Valkyries (heavy solid resin) & they vanished from FW site. A few months later GW was making plastic kits! Might be the case here, IMHO.
Actually, I'm not saying they are "kind of a GW company" I'm saying they are "kind of almost their own company". The difference being that while they are officially part of GW, there are instances where they aren't treated properly, almost like a "separate but equal" mentality as opposed to a unified front.
I know I harp on this a lot lately, but as long as stuff like this exists: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/664955.page , there just can't be a world in which they are treated as one company, despite how they may be one officially.
And while I understand that the summary of this is:
It's very much a case by case basis. It's not a company policy to not allow FW products in their stores.
The problem isn't whether or not there is or isn't a company policy to not allow FW products in their store, but rather that there isn't a company policy that says "You must allow FW product in our stores" at least for non-tournament based activities, as tournaments can vary in format and restriction.
Yeah, I agree, even if it doesn't sound that way.
FW was a seperate entity for a while until, for legal & tax purposes, GW made them a "subsidiary of Games Workshop" (actual wording from GW & FW). It's like Lexus (FW) is to Toyota (GW).
My GW store & the 40ish blokes I play with have never ever cared either way. Bring it. Play it. Let's have fun! Is our motto.
Heck, I even order FW through my GW store so they get credit for it. They have FW displayed in their cases. During tournies & painting competitions, there is FW entered, and everyone is fine with it.
I think folks are digging too deep and splitting hairs nowadays in regards to FW. "Is it allowed in the store?" "I don't know, they didn't say it wasn't." "Well they didn't say it was." Now that is getting into semantics!
0-1 Command
1 or more Basics
1-10 AUXILIARIES ---- what are these, Kroot and Vespid? So i HAVE to take Kroot?
Also, while the formation rules seem really strong, i am somewhat sad about no crisis centric formation. Or is the Firebase Support Cadre now Riptide + suits-i-want-to-take, instead of 3 man Broadside Teams?
No, Auxiliaries are the smaller formations. There is some that has Kroot and Vespsid but compared to some of the other Auxiliary formations there's way better.
0-1 Command
1 or more Basics
1-10 AUXILIARIES ---- what are these, Kroot and Vespid? So i HAVE to take Kroot?
Also, while the formation rules seem really strong, i am somewhat sad about no crisis centric formation. Or is the Firebase Support Cadre now Riptide + suits-i-want-to-take, instead of 3 man Broadside Teams?
BAsic is the hunter cadre - the commander, 0-1 fireblade, 0-1 bodyguard teams, 3-6 troops (breachers or strikers or kroot), then 1-3 fast, 1-3 elite and 1-3 heavy (basically).
the auxiliaries are all the other formations contained within the codex/Kauyon books. (both books contain all the formations) One of the formations IS kroot and vespid, but they all aren't.
Keep in mind, you won't be able to use FSE formations with the new super formation as the only available formations for it are in the new codex itself.
Makes me wonder what old Farsight is cooking up. I imagine he'll have his own codex and formations and maybe even super formation. I hope he a unique unit of some kind to field and make FSE stand out even more than the TE.
Caederes wrote: It's a great rule to be fair. It makes Railgun Hammerheads much better,
No it does not. Unit of 3 Railheads is expensive and cumbersone one-trick pony of an unit. All the tanks problems remain - terrible movement, no synergy with weapons loadouts, crappy wargear etc. Furthermore, they are terribly BORING and static unit and not the way Tau should be played. I don't own 3 Hammerheads so they can sit next to each other and shoot 1 times per turn at same target.
That's not the way YOU want to play Tau. Many players find ok to do gunlines, other rather a mix and some rather full tilt at the enemy.
Units of hammerheads can now fire 3 S8 AP3 blasts/9 S7 AP3 shots or 3 S6 AP4 blasts/3 S10 AP1 - and all at BS5. If taken in an AIC, they even re-roll to hit against enemies. Re-roll with blasts = win. Oh, and if you get them inside a Hunter Contigent, they'll get special rules from other units and at least 2 other units firing in tandem, you'll get +1BS. BS6 Hammerheads aren't too bad, are they?
A bit costly, of course, but better than the previous one.
And I share with you the disappointment with the lack of changes to base kroot, vespid, pathfinders, stealth suits... but now these are past waters. Time to move on and accept what we have now - which isn't bad!
I don't have to, and I won't, "accept" anything. Almost all of the units and playstyles I liked are unviable, and I don't care of what has been added. So yeah, the army remains dead to me.
- Farsight
- Shadowsun
- Aun'shi
- Aun'va
- Darkstrider (Can joint breachers now, as well as Strike and Pathfinders teams). The -1T to target Works very good with the new Pulse Shotguns.
Kanluwen wrote: Stormsurge can buy Shield Generators...at 50 points.
Good. Anything less and it would be ridiculous. That's what, 400 points for a superheavy? Compared to the Wraithknight, it's totally fair and balanced.
Don't be, because as it sounds right now we'll never get to play the game again. "Cheesier than Eldar" is certainly not what I fething wanted with a new codex, and all it's going to do is give validation to those people who have refused games against Tau players for the past couple years.
I really hope it isn't as bad as it sounds, though I know it doesn't matter either way; there's still a significant number of people out there that will insist Tau are the most overpowered army in the game, and have been since the day they were released, whether the rules actually back it up or not. But I would prefer it if it were the "UGH, animu in my 40k!" crowd just being annoying and biased instead of proving it with actual game-breaking formations that take all the worst parts about playing against Tau and turn it all up to fething 11, because you really can't just ignore the latter.
Caederes wrote: 50 point Shield Generators is fine by me, it was stupidly underpriced before. 50 points is fair.
25 points for a 4+ invulnerable is overpriced?
For an 8 wound Toughness 6 Gargantuan Creature? Hell yes! All other armies in the game pay 25 points to give a 4++ to a simple W3 T4 character that doesn't have any of the GMC rules....
Caederes wrote: 50 point Shield Generators is fine by me, it was stupidly underpriced before. 50 points is fair.
25 points for a 4+ invulnerable is overpriced?
For an 8 wound Toughness 6 Gargantuan Creature? Hell yes! All other armies in the game pay 25 points to give a 4++ to a simple W3 T4 character that doesn't have any of the GMC rules....
Ah, I thought you meant the shield generator in general.
Caederes wrote: 50 point Shield Generators is fine by me, it was stupidly underpriced before. 50 points is fair.
25 points for a 4+ invulnerable is overpriced?
For an 8 wound Toughness 6 Gargantuan Creature? Hell yes! All other armies in the game pay 25 points to give a 4++ to a simple W3 T4 character that doesn't have any of the GMC rules....
Ah, I thought you meant the shield generator in general.
All good bud.
Vector Strike wrote:Darkstrider and Farsight still exist. The former can joing both kinds of FW.
Both SSs big weapons cannot enjoy Storm of Fire (explicitely noted)
Makes sense, it would be fething stupid if that worked with SoF.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Longstrike gives Tank Hunters to his Hammerhead squadron...lol!
Don't be, because as it sounds right now we'll never get to play the game again. "Cheesier than Eldar" is certainly not what I fething wanted with a new codex, and all it's going to do is give validation to those people who have refused games against Tau players for the past couple years.
I really hope it isn't as bad as it sounds, though I know it doesn't matter either way; there's still a significant number of people out there that will insist Tau are the most overpowered army in the game, and have been since the day they were released, whether the rules actually back it up or not. But I would prefer it if it were the "UGH, animu in my 40k!" crowd just being annoying and biased instead of proving it with actual game-breaking formations that take all the worst parts about playing against Tau and turn it all up to fething 11, because you really can't just ignore the latter.
Yeah, I sure as heck am not at all excited at this "same as previous Codex but turned to 11" -release. But then, I guess I don't even qualify as a Tau player anymore, I only played about 3 matches with the previous Codex and totally hated it, and so did my opponents.
Oh man i never thought about that with hammerhead squads...
3 railheads with tankhunter. Thats just gravy. Wonder if we got a way to give them splitfire/targetlocks lol (since 3 railshots at a rhino is kinda overkill)
Orrus wrote: Are codex pre-orders up tomorrow or is that another week away?
Codex preorders are up tomorrow. They will be released next Saturday. Yipeee!
My big disappointment? They're softcover. BOO! I wouldn't care except that *every other codex* is hardcover. GW should see a cheaper softcover and a more expensive hardcover. Ironically, you'd have people who would buy *both*. AND the electronic version!
Interesting bit of description from the Battle Suit team blurb:
" One model in the kit can even be built as the new, experimental Iridium-class XV8-02 Crisis Battlesuit - distinguishable by its thicker armour and aggressive appearance."
It actually has parts for the iridium suit, as seen on the red suit, I believe.
Tau Skyfire wrote:Is Iridium Armour a still 1 per army thing or has that become more standard issue?
Iridium is 1/army
11 - 1 VP if one enemy unit that assault last turn is destroyed
12 - 1 VP if one enemy unit is destroyed by a unit that is in your deployement zone
13 - 1 VP if one unit is destroyed of fails a moral check. If 3 or more, D3 VP
14 - 1 VP if one unit is completly at 12" of one border of the battleflied and another unit in the opposite border.
15 - 1VP if a unit that starts the turn at 9" of any unit of your army and its not in its deployment zone is destroyed
16 - D3 VP if you control an Objective that was under the control of the opponent at the beginning of the turn. 3+D3 VP if 3 Objetives. 1 additional VP if no model is lost during this turn.
By the way, datacards are only objetives and warlord traits. Nothing else.
Bonding Knife Ritual is the same
Only Coldstar can grab the HOBC
Talys wrote:
Orrus wrote: Are codex pre-orders up tomorrow or is that another week away?
Codex preorders are up tomorrow. They will be released next Saturday. Yipeee!
My big disappointment? They're softcover. BOO! I wouldn't care except that *every other codex* is hardcover. GW should see a cheaper softcover and a more expensive hardcover. Ironically, you'd have people who would buy *both*. AND the electronic version!
Vineheart01 wrote: Oh man i never thought about that with hammerhead squads...
3 railheads with tankhunter. Thats just gravy. Wonder if we got a way to give them splitfire/targetlocks lol (since 3 railshots at a rhino is kinda overkill)
I doubt it. That would require thinking about how a squadron of Hammerheads should actually work.
Also, bonding knife ritual stays the same and so is useless on Crisis/Broadside units still. Well done GW.
Drones are as always. Missiles drones only for Broadsides. Strike teams can purchase the 6+ Drone, but they do not have or can purchase the amplifier thing. Pathfinders drones are the same.
I am really surprised, but the Tidewall is NOT in the codex.
So MV52 is only for Ghostkeel, the 6++ only for both variants of FW
in this unit of crisis suits
(3) XV8 Crisis Suits w/(2) Missile Pods*, (3) Target Locks, (6) Marker Drones
can I fire the marker lights first at a target and then declare a combined unit will shoot using those marker lights? or do they have to be networked, otherwise i may have to have 2 commanders 1 for buffing combined shooting with MSSS, PENC C&C Node and 1 for providing markerlights to allow my stormsurge to get his SD missiles hitting home
Well, the new suits and the Coldstar are gorgeous. BTW, airburst frag projectors aren't listed as being in the XV8 box, so it seems unlikely that they'll be able to take them.
in this unit of crisis suits
(3) XV8 Crisis Suits w/(2) Missile Pods*, (3) Target Locks, (6) Marker Drones
can I fire the marker lights first at a target and then declare a combined unit will shoot using those marker lights? or do they have to be networked, otherwise i may have to have 2 commanders 1 for buffing combined shooting with MSSS, PENC C&C Node and 1 for providing markerlights to allow my stormsurge to get his SD missiles hitting home
They need to be networked. The moment the Markerdrones fire, the entire unit is firing, so you must declare their targets even before rolling dice. As their MLs aren't networked, you won't be able to enjoy them - nor any other unit doing the combined fire with this unit.
Looks like it's better to separate non-networked ML sources from real firepower now.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Do Cadre Fireblades and their units still require to be still to grant Volley Fire?
What are the extra things Devilfishes have access now? Their page in WD seems to have more options than the 6e
Can Firesight Marksman (Sniper Drone Team) fire at a different target than the unit?
Does Stormsurge really miss Blacksun filter? Or is it listed somewhere in the armour page?
Are Riptides still forbidden to grab Vectored Retro-Thrusters?
1. Yes
2. Devilfish is 100% same
3. No
4. Does not have it or access to it.
5. Yes. Only Crisis and Stealth battlesuits can get one.
The stormsurge, a long ranged artillery unit, doesn't have blacksun filters or any access to it, despite every other battlesuit in the Tau army having it?
A Town Called Malus wrote: The stormsurge, a long ranged artillery unit, doesn't have blacksun filters or any access to it, despite every other battlesuit in the Tau army having it?
Wow, that's so stupid
That's because it was embedded in the hatch that the pilots forgot to put on it!
A Town Called Malus wrote: The stormsurge, a long ranged artillery unit, doesn't have blacksun filters or any access to it, despite every other battlesuit in the Tau army having it?
Wow, that's so stupid
That's because it's not a battlesuit.
Remember, they described it as a "ballistic suit", so that way they can break off from everything that's shared by every other battlesuit, like having armor between the pilot and enemy fire.
A Town Called Malus wrote: The stormsurge, a long ranged artillery unit, doesn't have blacksun filters or any access to it, despite every other battlesuit in the Tau army having it?
Wow, that's so stupid
It will become available when you buy the $30 hatch for the model, rules included in the box!
Remember all the tank and monstrous creatures are now unit sizes 1-3. So that entry in the AIC (if you're going for the decurion detachment) looks like it can fit up to 3 there. If you're gonna go that route.
Gamgee wrote:A cad with 1 Etheral and 54 point minimum FW is a 104 point tax to take the two I regularly take.
I'm not sure they're worth it now. I just friggen bought my second one too damn it. -_-
Fws are 45p now. So for less than 100p you can take 9 Sky Rays. For less than 120 you give those FWs a DS8 turret just for the fun of it and put the Ethereal with Breachers
changemod wrote:What actually dangerous non-superheavy vehicles have higher than 11 rear armour burst cannons that always hit rear armour can't glance to death?
I mean, Land Raiders, sure, but those have very little firepower so who cares about those.
changemod wrote: What actually dangerous non-superheavy vehicles have higher than 11 rear armour burst cannons that always hit rear armour can't glance to death?
I mean, Land Raiders, sure, but those have very little firepower so who cares about those.
Anything with void shields has ablative 12AV "wounds" you'll have to chew through first. Stompa. Tesseract Vault, Obelisk, the old pyramid, and all of the IG tanks have rear armor 12 or better. Hilariously the Revenant has only 10AV on the back. But let's be fair, you've got bigger problems with a Revenant. Better be going first
Vineheart01 wrote: Oh man i never thought about that with hammerhead squads...
3 railheads with tankhunter. Thats just gravy. Wonder if we got a way to give them splitfire/targetlocks lol (since 3 railshots at a rhino is kinda overkill)
I doubt it. That would require thinking about how a squadron of Hammerheads should actually work.
Also, bonding knife ritual stays the same and so is useless on Crisis/Broadside units still. Well done GW.
changemod wrote: What actually dangerous non-superheavy vehicles have higher than 11 rear armour burst cannons that always hit rear armour can't glance to death?
I mean, Land Raiders, sure, but those have very little firepower so who cares about those.
Anything with void shields has ablative 12AV "wounds" you'll have to chew through first. Stompa. Tesseract Vault, Obelisk, the old pyramid, and all of the IG tanks have rear armor 12 or better. Hilariously the Revenant has only 10AV on the back. But let's be fair, you've got bigger problems with a Revenant. Better be going first
Not many then, given you leapt straight to listing superheavies.
Because if you lose 2 of 3 models, you'll still have 33% of your unit - and not prone to need snakeyes to regroup. Only if you put a Drone there that BKR becomes good for both units.
Same with Riptides now. Ghostkeels will only require that if you get at least one other (I don't remember if he can get it)
Because if you lose 2 of 3 models, you'll still have 33% of your unit - and not prone to need snakeyes to regroup. Only if you put a Drone there that BKR becomes good for both units.
Same with Riptides now. Ghostkeels will only require that if you get at least one other (I don't remember if he can get it)
Insane heroism only comes into play when you have less than 25% of your starting numbers.
Even with drones, you need 8 models total (3 suits and 5 drones) for it to be possible to be below 25% since you round fractions down.
I never field crisis suits without full drones. They die way too easily to S8 sniping without drone blobs, plus gun drones do a lot more damage than people think.
SinisterSamurai wrote: Someone has pointed out that Aun'Do's Invocation of Elements has been nerfed to only affect "Models" within range, not "Units" within range.
Its always been models in range, not units. Two of the things he offers in his 12" bubble only need 1 model though (use highest LD, so 1 model at LD10 = whole unit and Stubborn is unit wide)
I never field crisis suits without full drones. They die way too easily to S8 sniping without drone blobs, plus gun drones do a lot more damage than people think.
SinisterSamurai wrote: Someone has pointed out that Aun'Do's Invocation of Elements has been nerfed to only affect "Models" within range, not "Units" within range.
Its always been models in range, not units. Two of the things he offers in his 12" bubble only need 1 model though (use highest LD, so 1 model at LD10 = whole unit and Stubborn is unit wide)
he Eiliereal, and
all friendly non-vehicle models from this codex in units
"ithin 12", benefit from tl1e effects of the elemental power
until the start of the Ethereal's next Movement phase. If the
Ethereal is slain, the elemental power ends immediately
It's badly OCR'd, but that that's a copypasta from the 6E codex. All models in UNITS that are within range...
I never field crisis suits without full drones. They die way too easily to S8 sniping without drone blobs, plus gun drones do a lot more damage than people think.
Because even with 9 models, you're only going to be below 25% when there's only one model left. At which point the unit is basically dead and useless anyway.
I never field crisis suits without full drones. They die way too easily to S8 sniping without drone blobs, plus gun drones do a lot more damage than people think.
Because even with 9 models, you're only going to be below 25% when there's only one model left. At which point the unit is basically dead and useless anyway.
Unless that one dude is one guardsmen with a grenade launcher who forces back some Wracks by overwatching one of them with a krack round, and then holds his OBJ to score a game winning point.
changemod wrote: ...Can you point out where it says you round down fractional models?
Oops. Just found the wording in 7th and it says round up. Misremembered the rule so 9 models is now under 25% at 2 models. Slightly better but not that great as Crisis Suits and drones are not particularly tough, so 2 models left is still easy to finish off.
I can't believe I have to point this out, but your magic number is always 1 more than any number that evenly divides by 4. 5, 9, 13, etc. Always worth it to bump a squad up so you can take 1 more lost model before taking your first Morale check.
Vineheart01 wrote: Oh man i never thought about that with hammerhead squads...
3 railheads with tankhunter. Thats just gravy. Wonder if we got a way to give them splitfire/targetlocks lol (since 3 railshots at a rhino is kinda overkill)
I doubt it. That would require thinking about how a squadron of Hammerheads should actually work.
Also, bonding knife ritual stays the same and so is useless on Crisis/Broadside units still. Well done GW.
Um, how is it useless on crisis/broadsides?
Yeah, I really have to question this. I find it very useful if they have drones. You really don't want that many points and that much firepower running off the board because of a few drones.
Warhams-77 wrote: It is both books in one set. I guess the 'I' is there because it is part 1 of the campaign. EDIT: I remembered it wrong, no numbers on spines before
Part II with Farsight?
Guessing that Part II will probably be called Mont'ka and deal with Farsight is a safe wager.
Warhams-77 wrote: It is both books in one set. I guess the 'I' is there because it is part 1 of the campaign. EDIT: I remembered it wrong, no numbers on spines before
Part II with Farsight?
Is the Damocles Gulf near the Farsight Enclaves?
Wasn't the second part of the other campaign books focused on the opposing forces?
In case of Sanctus Reach both books focused on Orks plus other factions. Shield of Baal was Tyranids in the first and Flesh Tearers and Necrons in the second if I remember it correctly.
Warhams-77 wrote: In case of Sanctus Reach both books focused on Orks plus other factions. Shield of Baal was Tyranids in the first and Flesh Tearers and Necrons in the second if I remember it correctly.
Mont'Ka could be it, makes sense
Yes I just thought of that after I posted
Kauyon - The Patient Hunter
Mont'ka - The Killing Blow
If there is another book set, it will probably come after the Lizardmen re-release and the HH board game. So in three weeks the earliest. It could also be that there is a Tyranid release connected to it like Adeptus Astartes on FB rumored. But I'm just guessing. Hopefully one of the known rumormongers will chime in with reliable info soon.
Bear in mind
A) That Mont'ka is associated with Farsight as much as Kauyon is associated with Shadowsun.
B) We just got a Farsight novel (http://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/LotDM-Farsight)
C) There are rumors of upcoming Farsight datacards.
D) Why not ride the tidalwave of Tau Hype with a little extra Farsight Enclaves hype?
Guessing that Vol II is Mont'ka, and will deal with Farsight, Some Ork formations, and maybe some Astra Militarum, or possibly even Nids. All three were encountered by Farsight, but there are Nid rumors flying around the web, too.
Warhams-77 wrote: In case of Sanctus Reach both books focused on Orks plus other factions. Shield of Baal was Tyranids in the first and Flesh Tearers and Necrons in the second if I remember it correctly.
Mont'Ka could be it, makes sense
Yes I just thought of that after I posted
Kauyon - The Patient Hunter
Mont'ka - The Killing Blow
Requizen wrote: Now that FBSC doesn't require 3 Broadsides per unit, it's actually a lot more affordable in both $$ and points. Neat.
Yes, but that formation (just THIS formation) got severely nerved compared to the previous FBSC rules. You now have to fire all at the same target, and you lose the preferred enemy (space marine) rule
Tau has been the biggest 40k faction release model-wise since Orks and then Nids, so chances are good for a second Tau-related campaign book. FW models in the campaign? Not likely though.
Looks like the normal one but with some fractures in it. Something about a broken sept perhaps?
Also i seriously wonder if the second campaign will have to do with Shadowsun finding Farsight. She does after all have supposed secret orders to bring the renegade to justice.
Fluff wise, i'd be shocked if she beats him. Gamewise, she would insaspork him long before he gets in range lol. Technically Farsight can instakill her too since shes T3 but she has a 2+ cover majority of the time and shield drones to dump wounds on. Farsight doesnt, hes a lone wolf.
Vineheart01 wrote: Looks like the normal one but with some fractures in it. Something about a broken sept perhaps?
Also i seriously wonder if the second campaign will have to do with Shadowsun finding Farsight. She does after all have supposed secret orders to bring the renegade to justice.
Fluff wise, i'd be shocked if she beats him. Gamewise, she would insaspork him long before he gets in range lol. Technically Farsight can instakill her too since shes T3 but she has a 2+ cover majority of the time and shield drones to dump wounds on. Farsight doesnt, hes a lone wolf.
A lone wolf with 7 bodyguards.. one of which 'insasporks' (to borrow your fairly fun word there) either of them for fun and profit.. if we're making it about game mechanics
The 7 bodyguard thing is the normal Tau codex rules. In his suppliment, that doesnt exist. Instead its 7 commanders and they may be nearby but they arent right with Farsight.
Even still, she instasporks his bodyguards too and has a bigger jump. Doubt she'd weather the firepower from 7 bodyguards and farsight long enough though lol.
And yeah instaspork is a word i picked up from a friend of mine. "SPORKED!" instead of instant death lol
Shadowsun has more viability gamewise than Farsight but only because she actually shoots and has units that shes good in. Farsight doesnt. Thats always been my biggest complaint about him - its Farsight Bomb or no farsight because his good rules simply are wasted in our army. Fluffwise, SHES the lone wolf but not in the same sense. She waits patiently for her target and ambushes them. Farsight is quick enough to most likely avoid the initial strike but who knows after that.
I think I feel fairly confident saying O'Vesa could take Shadowsun pretty much any day of the week. Just saying
But yeah, it's all just for laughs. And honestly I'd be shocked if she in some way overcomes or kills him in the fluff. The unstoppable seemingly eternal "demon" tau general wielding life stealing Old Ones tech? Yeah good luck with that.
I really hope he gets EW. The tau still lack something with it, and for a model like him to constantly be killed by stray battlecannon shots is really annoying.
Farsight is the only thing in our dex that makes sense to have EW. I mean, in the fluff hes an eternal killing machine that has lived centuries, yet he dies stupid stupid fast in the game.
4 wound model with EW. Farsight would suddenly become viable for once because he could actually leave his crisis suits to charge something and not worry about battlecannons or rokkits immediately after.
I mean, they'd still hurt him obviously, but not 1shot
The back of the blister slip for the Etheral shows his normal rules. "Aun'Do" is exclusive to Burning Dawn, but "Ethereal on Hover Drone" will not be. Pathfinder instructions remain unchanged, but Piranha and Stealth Suits have rules in them.
Vineheart01 wrote: Hmm, wonder if the markerlights have a separate section for missiles. That pic is devoid of seekers and destroyers unless im completely blind.
That is only because the campaign box does not include any models that can use missiles. That info will be in the codex
Vineheart01 wrote: Hmm, wonder if the markerlights have a separate section for missiles. That pic is devoid of seekers and destroyers unless im completely blind.
That is only because the campaign box does not include any models that can use missiles. That info will be in the codex
Campaign book is suppose to include all the new rules. We are suppose to not require the new codex if we have the 6th one.
If anyone wanted a Tau Tidewall Rampart in the Metro Vancouver area but couldn't get one, I have a reservation at a local independent that you're welcome to.
I've already gotten two, so I'm good Free, of course. PM me for details if you want.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
GreyDragoon wrote: It's softcover for non-english release. English versions are hardcover.
Ahhh I see. Thank you, and cool (for English speaking folks anyhow). I think I would have passed on the softcover.
So perhaps this was already discussed, but is there any clear indication of what is in the "codex" vs the campaign book? Is there anything exclusive to the campaign book other than obviously the campaign and some fluff? Are all the new formations going to be in the codex re release?
It is really going to tick me off if GW is going to force me to buy a campaign book just to get my formations when, as far as I know that has never been the case. I have absolutely zero use for the campaign, I don't run campaigns, I have absolutely no use for a $75 book of which I'll use maybe 10 pages.
So, is it more worth it for me to get the re release dex or will I just end up having to buy the campaign book anyway? The way they're marketing this is extremely confusing. "Come buy this codex because it has everything you need, BUT if you have April 2013 Tau ALL you need is this $75 book which is more expensive than the codex!", this doesn't make sense to me at all.
reaper501 wrote:So perhaps this was already discussed, but is there any clear indication of what is in the "codex" vs the campaign book? Is there anything exclusive to the campaign book other than obviously the campaign and some fluff? Are all the new formations going to be in the codex re release?
It is really going to tick me off if GW is going to force me to buy a campaign book just to get my formations when, as far as I know that has never been the case. I have absolutely zero use for the campaign, I don't run campaigns, I have absolutely no use for a $75 book of which I'll use maybe 10 pages.
So, is it more worth it for me to get the re release dex or will I just end up having to buy the campaign book anyway? The way they're marketing this is extremely confusing. "Come buy this codex because it has everything you need, BUT if you have April 2013 Tau ALL you need is this $75 book which is more expensive than the codex!", this doesn't make sense to me at all.
There are two ways you can have all the rules/formations: either the old codex + campaign book or just get the new codex. As far as I know there's nothing in the campaign book (besides obviously the campaign stuff) that you won't get in the new codex.
Triszin wrote:So the collectors edition sold out, and the rest of the world couldn't even order it. Lol
I'm hoping they throttled the amount that could be purchased before it goes up....kinda ticked that it's 3pm in Korea and still no pre-order on the ever ambiguous 'rest of the world' site.
Talys wrote: If anyone wanted a Tau Tidewall Rampart in the Metro Vancouver area but couldn't get one, I have a reservation at a local independent that you're welcome to.
I've already gotten two, so I'm good Free, of course. PM me for details if you want.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
GreyDragoon wrote: It's softcover for non-english release. English versions are hardcover.
Ahhh I see. Thank you, and cool (for English speaking folks anyhow). I think I would have passed on the softcover.
You live in Metro Vancouver? And we haven't played a game? Or I somehow haven't seen your gorgeous Blood Angels in person?!
The softcover for all is wrong as already mentioned. Also it is still unconfirmed if all other - and I still doubt it will be the case with the german and french books - get softcover except for the English book. We have to wait for these preorders to go up in the next two or three hours.
It is scary that BOLS' Rob Baer and Larry Vela are inable to read that
A) the leaks posted by Iuchiban on Warseer are not from Kauyon
B) not the english Codex and
C) that he mentions three times throughout the day it is the spanish Codex.
But they still post their news articles and create lots of confusion especially by insisting the english Codex would be softcover. How can you not get such a quite easy research work done right especially A and B? Do they even read the posts on Warseer before creating their articles?
Gamgee wrote:A cad with 1 Etheral and 54 point minimum FW is a 104 point tax to take the two I regularly take.
I'm not sure they're worth it now. I just friggen bought my second one too damn it. -_-
Fws are 45p now. So for less than 100p you can take 9 Sky Rays. For less than 120 you give those FWs a DS8 turret just for the fun of it and put the Ethereal with breachers
Can you clarify the bit about skyrays? I am new and everyone in store tells me to get the hammerhead. But the rail gun seems to fluffy. 1 shot and that's it!.
Id rather have the tougher marker platform with a 3+ cover save in the open.
Holy gak, pre-orders up in the EU, 145,- euro for the LE codex lol.
I just looked it up, the previous LE was 80 euros and that was hardly worth it (imho), this is just silly, it is basically 100 euros for a map, 6 tokens and the data cards. The LE codex even uses the same frikkin cover art, albeit with a fancy graphic overlayed. At least the previous LE had a unique cover art. I do like the look of the box though, but not 100 euro worth of like.
Went into my FLGS today - preordered the new 'Dex, the Kauyon Campaign Supplement, the new crisis battlesuits, the new commander, and the datacards. I also ordered a stormsurge, a ghostkeel, two more broadsides, and a unit of FW breachers.
Dr. Delorean wrote: Went into my FLGS today - preordered the new 'Dex, the Kauyon Campaign Supplement, the new crisis battlesuits, the new commander, and the datacards. I also ordered a stormsurge, a ghostkeel, two more broadsides, and a unit of FW breachers.
I...uhh...I may have a problem.
S'alright. I ordered two of the Tau fortress thingies... and I don't even play Tau!
If your in NA/Canada preorders will likely go up at 1pm exactly and a shared stock for the two countries.
Be ready to order than. I'm not getting the collectors edition because I think meh. I have so many cool video game collectors editions the GW one's simply pale in comparison. My Witcher 3 statue sits proudly in our gaming area.
Dr. Delorean wrote: Went into my FLGS today - preordered the new 'Dex, the Kauyon Campaign Supplement, the new crisis battlesuits, the new commander, and the datacards. I also ordered a stormsurge, a ghostkeel, two more broadsides, and a unit of FW breachers.
I...uhh...I may have a problem.
S'alright. I ordered two of the Tau fortress thingies... and I don't even play Tau!
Good grief - I was going to get one of those too, but a guy in front bought THREE before I had a chance.
I've been thinking of the +1 BS and the mandatory 3 FW squads in the basic detachment.
It's pretty cheap to get 3 minimum squads (45pts each), but by buying a drone turret with SMS as well, you can get a lot of mileage out of the +1 BS rule.
Just fire at a unit (doesn't have to be in LOS) with the SMS, doesn't have to be able to harm the unit at all, but you only need to do this with 2 FW units and the 3rd unit gets +1 BS.
The FWs will probably be camping on an objective in your deployment zone anyway, so it seems like a good and simple strategy to give your more potent units a boost, plus getting some utility out of those objective campers.
Just noticed that Gift for Geeks seem to be listing the Tidewall in stock, if anyone missed out.
Also just preordered the iBook codex, noticed a couple of things; 1) they've dropped the price back down to the same as the regular codex and 2) as well as the standard eBook version for £21.99 they are also doing a mobile formatted iBook at that price, which is handy if you want a really portable version.
Dr. Delorean wrote:Went into my FLGS today - preordered the new 'Dex, the Kauyon Campaign Supplement, the new crisis battlesuits, the new commander, and the datacards. I also ordered a stormsurge, a ghostkeel, two more broadsides, and a unit of FW breachers.
I think the ITC is going to have to reconsider letting squads of these thingfs roam around now. GW is awesome for answering this question. This makes it even better. I know it's WD, but still it is something official. Reduces the amount of ML needed to support it.
Gamgee wrote: I think the ITC is going to have to reconsider letting squads of these thingfs roam around now. GW is awesome for answering this question. This makes it even better. I know it's WD, but still it is something official. Reduces the amount of ML needed to support it.
It's also only an email & you get different answers from those guys all the time so that's why itc create their own errata.
He is well known for reliable early info but he cant be perfect, can he?
