Just came into to say the War Zone Damocles: Kauyon book looks AWESOME! Love the 90s Manga style art on the covers, and having a new book full of campaign specific fluff that will sit alongside the old codex rather than just having to update the codex is a great idea!
It's also only an email & you get different answers from those guys all the time so that's why itc create their own errata.
They should more change it due to consistant wording in the 6e Tau Codex (and 7e codex if they didn't change it) about treating overwatch as a shooting phase, "can only be used in the shooting phase, but not during overwatch."
That and the complete rules breakdown for heavy weapons.
Hopefully they keep their word and we actually get some FAQs.
A) the leaks posted by Iuchiban on Warseer are not from Kauyon
B) not the english Codex and
C) that he mentions three times throughout the day it is the spanish Codex.
But they still post their news articles and create lots of confusion especially by insisting the english Codex would be softcover. How can you not get such a quite easy research work done right especially A and B? Do they even read the posts on Warseer before creating their articles?
Rob also said in his preview of the Tau Commander White Dwarf issue that the new commander is a good deal because you get the both models of Coldstar AND Enforcer in the box for $50 which comes out to $25 each. I suppose he didn't notice that you only get one model for that price (plus drones) and you have to choose between the two options. I appreciate his unboxing videos but I take his news, rumors, and reviews with a bit of salt usually.
Crazyterran wrote: No, because they get paid to generate clicks, and saying 'tau codex is soft cover' will get you scare clicks.
^^^ this, plus the pop up ads on iOS devices made me stop reading their site.
I for one welcome our new fishy ambassadors of the one true gaming lord that is GW (first of his name).
If GW's new business model is to create "living" rulesets that are almost free. I'm totally down with it. I like the idea of updating each codex every few years to balance things out and add new models. It keeps the game fresh IMO. And, it has the added benefit of making tournament gamers' lives difficult.
Maybe with this new Tau release, GW is finally going all in on the "we are a model company". I think the new Fire Warrior kit further presses the gas peddle on this idea. I have a bunch of old Tau Fire Warrior squads. I bought 4 boxes of the new models, not just because I want the new guns, but also because I want the cool new poses. One reason I play table top mini games is to have cool models on the table and these new Fire Warriors are cooler than my old ones. So, GW sucessfully sold me models that I didn't really need.
evancich wrote: I have a bunch of old Tau Fire Warrior squads. I bought 4 boxes of the new models, not just because I want the new guns, but also because I want the cool new poses. One reason I play table top mini games is to have cool models on the table and these new Fire Warriors are cooler than my old ones. So, GW sucessfully sold me models that I didn't really need.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but from looking at the sprues it doesn't appear they resculpted anything. They just recut the sprues to add in the additional breacher heads, guns, and shoulder pads, as well as the missile turrets and drones. Strike teams made from the new kit will look identical to those made from the old kit.
Crazyterran wrote: No, because they get paid to generate clicks, and saying 'tau codex is soft cover' will get you scare clicks.
^^^ this, plus the pop up ads on iOS devices made me stop reading their site.
I for one welcome our new fishy ambassadors of the one true gaming lord that is GW (first of his name).
If GW's new business model is to create "living" rulesets that are almost free. I'm totally down with it. I like the idea of updating each codex every few years to balance things out and add new models. It keeps the game fresh IMO. And, it has the added benefit of making tournament gamers' lives difficult.
Maybe with this new Tau release, GW is finally going all in on the "we are a model company". I think the new Fire Warrior kit further presses the gas peddle on this idea. I have a bunch of old Tau Fire Warrior squads. I bought 4 boxes of the new models, not just because I want the new guns, but also because I want the cool new poses. One reason I play table top mini games is to have cool models on the table and these new Fire Warriors are cooler than my old ones. So, GW sucessfully sold me models that I didn't really need.
Which is exactly what I think their plan is.
While I would not mind this, I can't agree with your statement that it is "almost free". A lot of people bought the Tau codex what, two years ago? For $50. Now they either need to buy the new one for $50, for a handful of new pages, or buy the $75 campaign book.
I would not call $100-$125 "almost free". If it was a true update, where they went through and adjusted point costs, special rules, equipment, and did their very best to make the codex at least internally balanced, I wouldn't mind buying the new book nearly as much.
But when you copy and paste 95% of the book, and try and charge the same price again. That's not "almost free" for a "living ruleset". That's more like finding a way to drag every cent out of you that they can for the rules to play.
Good news for me. I love the look of the Strikers anyways. Very iconic unit. Breachers look cool but I can't ever see myself having a few of them made simply to field a minimum squad.
Right now I'm sitting on a box of the old FW and I have 12 already painted and assembled. I'll likely at some point in the far future grab two boxes of FW's and make a dozen more strikers then whatever is left as Breachers.
Oh, I like them too. It's just a bummer for the above poster who bought four unneeded boxes of them just for "cool new poses". He'll get cool new missile turrets, and can make breacher teams, but if all he wanted was to upgrade his existing strike teams, he'll be disappointed.
Oh agree. Let's hope he takes the news well. He rages at Riptides. So I may as well oblige right? Haha.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Hunter Contingent Gamgee Trolls his Tyranid Friend:
Command: Nadda
Hunter Cadre:
3 Strikers 5 man Each
1 Unit of 3 Riptides with Target Locks and Ion Accelerators
3 Units of Pathfinders 4 man
1 Stormsurge w/ shield and the one with Anti-Air
Auxiliary: Retaliation Cadre
Commander
3 Units of Crisis one unit each with Missiles Pods
1 Broadside with HYMP and Plasma Rifles
1 Riptide
Hunter Cadre:
3 Strikers 5 man Each
1 Unit of 3 Riptides with Target Locks and Ion Accelerators
3 Units of Pathfinders 4 man
1 Stormsurge w/ shield and the one with Anti-Air
IIRC you need another commander for the hunter cadre.
Ah so I do. I'll squeeze him in somewhere. I'll get rid of the SS's shields and maybe one Pathfinder team to fit him in. So how would you rate this for maximum Riptide rage levels? I suppose I can settle for one less Riptide in the 3 man and still be troll worthy since I also need a Body Guard. Hmm I'll need to rework it a bit. Give me a few mins here.
evancich wrote: I have a bunch of old Tau Fire Warrior squads. I bought 4 boxes of the new models, not just because I want the new guns, but also because I want the cool new poses. One reason I play table top mini games is to have cool models on the table and these new Fire Warriors are cooler than my old ones. So, GW sucessfully sold me models that I didn't really need.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but from looking at the sprues it doesn't appear they resculpted anything. They just recut the sprues to add in the additional breacher heads, guns, and shoulder pads, as well as the missile turrets and drones. Strike teams made from the new kit will look identical to those made from the old kit.
You're not the "bearer" of any news, because you're wrong.
They did resculpt things--just not in the sense that you are thinking of where a "resculpt" is an entirely new set from start to finish. If you actually took some time to look at the kit in person?
There is detail which was not present before. The armor plates on the legs are a lot crisper for example.
The legs especially on the old Firewarriors were bad. The armor on some of them melded into the pants, the lines were terrible, and there wasnt any difference between their "boot" and their hoofed toes.
Theyre definitely recasted. That doesnt mean the model changed, it means theyre recut and therefore cleaner.
That being said, i aint buying any lol. Im not a fan of the breachers, though considering my random playstyle i may want them eventually, and i have 50 firewarriors as it is lol. Especially at that cost.
While I would not mind this, I can't agree with your statement that it is "almost free". A lot of people bought the Tau codex what, two years ago? For $50. Now they either need to buy the new one for $50, for a handful of new pages, or buy the $75 campaign book.
I would not call $100-$125 "almost free". If it was a true update, where they went through and adjusted point costs, special rules, equipment, and did their very best to make the codex at least internally balanced, I wouldn't mind buying the new book nearly as much.
But when you copy and paste 95% of the book, and try and charge the same price again. That's not "almost free" for a "living ruleset". That's more like finding a way to drag every cent out of you that they can for the rules to play.
When I bought the $150 Tau big robot thing, it came with a USB drive that had the rules on it. The rules for the $75 Ghost-whatever are in a WD that I already subscribe to.
Those = "almost free" to me.
It looks like the new Tau codex is not the only place to get the new rules and if the rumors are correct, most of the existing units are the same. So, having the codex already and the models and GW sending the rules my way, is pretty much "almost free" in my book.
Are the new Tau Codexes out today or just up for preorder? Had someone asking for them saying they'd gone up for preorder last week but I've not got any in here.
Crazyterran wrote: No, because they get paid to generate clicks, and saying 'tau codex is soft cover' will get you scare clicks.
^^^ this, plus the pop up ads on iOS devices made me stop reading their site.
I for one welcome our new fishy ambassadors of the one true gaming lord that is GW (first of his name).
If GW's new business model is to create "living" rulesets that are almost free. I'm totally down with it. I like the idea of updating each codex every few years to balance things out and add new models. It keeps the game fresh IMO. And, it has the added benefit of making tournament gamers' lives difficult.
Maybe with this new Tau release, GW is finally going all in on the "we are a model company". I think the new Fire Warrior kit further presses the gas peddle on this idea. I have a bunch of old Tau Fire Warrior squads. I bought 4 boxes of the new models, not just because I want the new guns, but also because I want the cool new poses. One reason I play table top mini games is to have cool models on the table and these new Fire Warriors are cooler than my old ones. So, GW sucessfully sold me models that I didn't really need.
Which is exactly what I think their plan is.
While I would not mind this, I can't agree with your statement that it is "almost free". A lot of people bought the Tau codex what, two years ago? For $50. Now they either need to buy the new one for $50, for a handful of new pages, or buy the $75 campaign book.
I would not call $100-$125 "almost free". If it was a true update, where they went through and adjusted point costs, special rules, equipment, and did their very best to make the codex at least internally balanced, I wouldn't mind buying the new book nearly as much.
But when you copy and paste 95% of the book, and try and charge the same price again. That's not "almost free" for a "living ruleset". That's more like finding a way to drag every cent out of you that they can for the rules to play.
I refuse to give GW another cent, but I really want to see the new codex when it comes out.
Kanluwen wrote:
They did resculpt things--just not in the sense that you are thinking of where a "resculpt" is an entirely new set from start to finish. If you actually took some time to look at the kit in person?
There is detail which was not present before. The armor plates on the legs are a lot crisper for example.
Vineheart01 wrote:The legs especially on the old Firewarriors were bad. The armor on some of them melded into the pants, the lines were terrible, and there wasnt any difference between their "boot" and their hoofed toes.
Theyre definitely recasted. That doesnt mean the model changed, it means theyre recut and therefore cleaner.
What GW seem to have been doing over the last few years for updating older kits is to 3D-scan the old components into their CAD system. They then add details or make amendments to work better with modern plastic molding (change where the sprue attaches, split a part into smaller components, or add room for a new option). The 3D CAD file can then automatically produce a new injection mold.
This process is really obvious for kits like the Hive Tyrant; some of the new plastic components are identical to the old metal/resin ones while others have been subtlety tweaked.
Quite frankly i dont know how people managed to make these models without 3D scanning/modeling technology. I mean, that is the reason there are so many wargames popping up now because of 3D printing and such. Bunch of them ive found are actually kinda cool, but because its a tabletop game you gotta find people to play it - which sucks.
Found one that was basically a campaign-sized game (think DnD) with 3-6 people. Youre suppose to play the same game once or twice a week for a few months. The game? Monster Hunter in miniature format. Yeah, no joke, and its awesome as hell (wish i could remember the name). All made possible by 3D printing.
Bottle wrote: Just came into to say the War Zone Damocles: Kauyon book looks AWESOME! Love the 90s Manga style art on the covers, and having a new book full of campaign specific fluff that will sit alongside the old codex rather than just having to update the codex is a great idea!
GW really hit the mark this time.
Yeah, there is definitely a 90's Manga style to the campaign book cover That whole thing about judging a book by its cover... If I do buy the campaign set, it will be 100% because of the cover, lol. And because the codex has the same cover as the old codex. I'm still not sure which I'll buy -- or both -- I'll wait til more leaks come out, I guess.
On the other hand, it does mean that you don't need to take the command formation in order to get a commander.
However, I think I would have preferred it to be an option between taking a commander and a fireblade, or it was a 0-1 option so that you didn't always have to take a commander.
Deadawake1347 wrote: On the other hand, it does mean that you don't need to take the command formation in order to get a commander.
However, I think I would have preferred it to be an option between taking a commander and a fireblade, or it was a 0-1 option so that you didn't always have to take a commander.
But commanders aren't bad models whatsoever. Having 2 isn't really a detriment.
Deadawake1347 wrote: On the other hand, it does mean that you don't need to take the command formation in order to get a commander.
However, I think I would have preferred it to be an option between taking a commander and a fireblade, or it was a 0-1 option so that you didn't always have to take a commander.
But commanders aren't bad models whatsoever. Having 2 isn't really a detriment.
No, but there are times when you don't want to add in the points for a commander, like the above example of wanting an ethereal without two commanders.
I saw this question earlier but no response so I will repeat it. Are there any auxiliary formations that are just a single model? So that you can fit extra battle suits in without having to buy loads of models.
You can also always Cadre, take a single commander, then have a CAD force go with it if you want the cheapest way to get an ethereal in (and you get two obj secure units as well for that)
monkeypuzzle wrote: I saw this question earlier but no response so I will repeat it. Are there any auxiliary formations that are just a single model? So that you can fit extra battle suits in without having to buy loads of models.
From what we've seen, no. The closest you can get is the Flyer formation that only requires one of each type of flyer. All the formations we've seen require multiple units, though you can take single models as units. The Retaliation Cadre for example can be a Commander, 3 solo Crisis Suits, a solo Broadside, and a solo Riptide. But none of the formations we've seen so far allow you to take just one battlesuit.
Alcibiades wrote: So wait. You need a Commander for the Command Formation, and then ANOTHER for the basic formation?
This is exactly how all of the super-detachments have worked so far.
Not really. Necron-Decurion. Khorne Daemonkin. Even the Eldar-thing. All worked fine with just a single Warlord/HQ to lead your army.
You're right about Daemonkin, but both Necrons taking a Royal Court and Eldar taking a Seer council requires taking duplicate HQs.
It would make more sense to not have an HQ in the core and make a command formation mandatory with a single character as it's minimum requirements... But it's not like Decurionoids were made with sense in mind.
Should be pretty easy to figure out, Casvalremdeikun.
1 Commander means a bare Commander.
3+ of Breacher/Strikers/Kroot means 3 min-sized Strikers or Breachers.
1+ of Stealth/Riptide/Ghostkeel/Crisis means a Monat Crisis suit without any upgrades
1+ of Pathfinders/Piranhas/Vespid/Drones means for bare Piranha.
1+ of Broadsides/Hammerhead/Stormsurge/Sniperteam means a min-sized Sniper team.
A grand total of 350, if I've added things up right.
1 Commander means a bare Commander.
3+ of Breacher/Strikers/Kroot means 3 min-sized Strikers or Breachers.
1+ of Stealth/Riptide/Ghostkeel/Crisis means a Monat Crisis suit without any upgrades
1+ of Pathfinders/Piranhas/Vespid/Drones means for bare Piranha.
1+ of Broadsides/Hammerhead/Stormsurge/Sniperteam means a min-sized Sniper team.
A grand total of 350, if I've added things up right.
Though putting some average cost weapons on the Commander and Crisis might give a slightly more realistic minimum.
Still, less than 500 points for a fairly bare bones core. That's good news for fitting in to 2000 for a regular game.
Given the reliance on the Commander's survival for the extra run speed, Iridium seems likely. FnP, TL, and 2 weapons lets it tank small arms fire, 2+ LOS! things it can't hand with armor or cover saves, and 2 very accurate shots at whatever you want, no matter what squad you join it it.
Call it 3 10-man squads of Strikers or Breachers to give them presence on the table.
2 Crisis Suits dual-wielding Plasma Rifles, Missile Pods, or Fusion Blasters.
1 squad of 10 Pathfinders for Markerlight support goodness.
2 HYMP Broadsides
So ~775 to 800 points for minimum viability, the way I play. You could easily drop a broadside or crisis suit and remain viable, I'd imagine.
Deadawake1347 wrote: On the other hand, it does mean that you don't need to take the command formation in order to get a commander.
However, I think I would have preferred it to be an option between taking a commander and a fireblade, or it was a 0-1 option so that you didn't always have to take a commander.
But commanders aren't bad models whatsoever. Having 2 isn't really a detriment.
No, but there are times when you don't want to add in the points for a commander, like the above example of wanting an ethereal without two commanders.
guys have posted this on army lists but I think this thread will receive something from it as well, what do people think is the optimal way to run a Hunter Cadre/Hunter Contingent. from the leaks so far this is what I would run:
Hunter Contingent - 1850 Points
Tau Skyfire wrote: guys have posted this on army lists but I think this thread will receive something from it as well, what do people think is the optimal way to run a Hunter Cadre/Hunter Contingent. from the leaks so far this is what I would run:
Hunter Contingent - 1850 Points
what would you change and what do you think is the optimal way to run the Cadre?
I would drop FnP and VRT on commander, Add Target lock to the stealth suits with the fusion blaster, and see if you can get the points to add Shield Generators on the 2 Stormsurges. They will be killed very quickly without it. And personally, I would rather have 2 Riptides and a Stormsurge with shield generator than 2 stormsurge
I would rather have 3 Riptides than 1 SS with a shield and 2 Riptides.
That +1 BS is awesome and they are mobile.
I would field minimum man pathfinders personally since it gives me points elsewhere and its so niche to need 6 ML hits. Yea I know there is reliability in bringing six, but surely it can be knocked down to 5 mans and save yourself a large 33 points. 66 points if you field minimums.
Gamgee wrote: I would rather have 3 Riptides than 1 SS with a shield and 2 Riptides.
That +1 BS is awesome and they are mobile.
Then you will still be lacking the ability to kill both Deathstars (2 Str 10 AP2 Large blast) and GC and Super Heavies (4 Str D AP1 missiles). Those are two of the things Tau have been struggling with for years and SS solves both problems.
Also, 3 Riptides in a unit is way to big of a footprint. I would rather have them be able to move around the field individually. Having to keep all 3 right next to each other will be a big problem.
Gamgee wrote: I would rather have 3 Riptides than 1 SS with a shield and 2 Riptides.
That +1 BS is awesome and they are mobile.
Then you will still be lacking the ability to kill both Deathstars (2 Str 10 AP2 Large blast) and GC and Super Heavies (4 Str D AP1 missiles). Those are two of the things Tau have been struggling with for years and SS solves both problems.
Also, 3 Riptides in a unit is way to big of a footprint. I would rather have them be able to move around the field individually. Having to keep all 3 right next to each other will be a big problem.
All boxes of 3 crisis suits contain the parts for one iridium armor suit (it looks "thicker"). But still one iridium armor per army, which is kind of dumb when you think about it because the only person you would spend 25 points to put the Iridium armor on is the commander... who has his own model.
On it's first inclusion in a codex, I thought that they just went and chose a name for the Irridium Armor based on "sounds cool", but after learning a bit more about the element, alloys using it, and the applications they are put to, I began to wonder if the design team deserved a touch more credit than I was giving them.
shade1313 wrote: On it's first inclusion in a codex, I thought that they just went and chose a name for the Irridium Armor based on "sounds cool", but after learning a bit more about the element, alloys using it, and the applications they are put to, I began to wonder if the design team deserved a touch more credit than I was giving them.
But remember, the GW design team come up with all of their ideas in a total vacuum, hence their complete uniqueness.
It'll certainly be interesting if it becomes some kind of Shas'vre upgrade in the Mont'ka book. Perhaps even an option for a Commander's crisis suit team.
Lexicanum wrote:The XV8-02 Crisis 'Iridium' Battlesuit is a rare XV8 Bodyguard suit variant made of iridium, distinguishable by its heavier armor. After the death of Commander Pridestar to a sniper's bullet and the subsequent Tau defeat during the Klodate Worlds Suppression, the Earth Caste developed an experimental iridium alloy and produced only enough for a small series of Battlesuits. While it offers Tau Commanders and their Bodyguards optimal protection, it is a luxury that few can afford, though Commander Dawnstar of the Dal'yth Sept is known to call upon them.
So, if not for the Tyranids, the Tau would be lost....blah blah blah, unstoppable military blah blah blah route blah blah blah sudden plot armor pulling the attacking force away.
This just made me remember why I can't stand GW writers, they're mind-achingly boring. Somehow the embattled but unstoppable might of the human armies is always somehow pulled back at the last instant before destroying whatever xenos they're up against. So unstoppable that they have to pull back, yeah.
So, if not for the Tyranids, the Tau would be lost....blah blah blah, unstoppable military blah blah blah route blah blah blah sudden plot armor pulling the attacking force away.
This just made me remember why I can't stand GW writers, they're mind-achingly boring. Somehow the embattled but unstoppable might of the human armies is always somehow pulled back at the last instant before destroying whatever xenos they're up against. So unstoppable that they have to pull back, yeah.
This has been the part of the background for the Tau since their inception.
You obviously don't pay much attention to the fluff if you don't understand why the Imperium is constantly flitting from one threat to the other.
It's a bit different to the older fluff though. From what I recal it had the imperium's power weakening, with their control of orbital space wavering before they finally retreated. As a sort of "the tau could have done a final push and perhaps destroyed the assault entirely, but let them go because they are diplomatic and all that." thing.
So, if not for the Tyranids, the Tau would be lost....blah blah blah, unstoppable military blah blah blah route blah blah blah sudden plot armor pulling the attacking force away.
This just made me remember why I can't stand GW writers, they're mind-achingly boring. Somehow the embattled but unstoppable might of the human armies is always somehow pulled back at the last instant before destroying whatever xenos they're up against. So unstoppable that they have to pull back, yeah.
This has been the part of the background for the Tau since their inception.
You obviously don't pay much attention to the fluff if you don't understand why the Imperium is constantly flitting from one threat to the other.
You're right, I don't, because I think it's terrible writing and I don't like reading novels/material that assumes I'm stupid. Dumb stories can be fun, heck, I love the Stainless Steel Rat stories, but those are funny. GW writing seems to take itself really seriously AND is moronic to boot. /rant
Sorry, off topic but that blurp just reminded me of my opinion on GW writing/fluff.
agnosto wrote: You're right, I don't, because I think it's terrible writing and I don't like reading novels/material that assumes I'm stupid. Dumb stories can be fun, heck, I love the Stainless Steel Rat stories, but those are funny. GW writing seems to take itself really seriously AND is moronic to boot. /rant
Sorry, off topic but that blurp just reminded me of my opinion on GW writing/fluff.
I'm not particularly sure what's moronic about that Tau background. I think you might just have a chip on your shoulder against GW.
Certainly some of their more recent fluff pieces have been questionable but the idea that if the Imperium of Man brought its full power against the Tau they would be extinguished is hardly moronic. Tau started as an anomaly, a chance warp storm blocking the passage of the fleet that would have otherwise relegated them to the long list of alien species exterminated by the IoM. Damocles being a victory for the Tau would have brought further Imperial retribution had it not been for other more pressing threats.
You can either take this as just being from the mouth of a typical IoM propagandist, as a lot of the older fluff pieces were, or it can be take at face value that the IoM is still powerful even when decrepit.
The Tau represent optimism, the glimmer of hope in the otherwise grim darkness of the 41st millennium.
It's hardly ground braking science fiction, but it isn't meant to be.
Medium of Death wrote: The Tau represent optimism, the glimmer of hope in the otherwise grim darkness of the 41st millennium.
No, the Tau represent grimdark. The fact that the Generic Evil Empire of pretty much any other scifi story is the only possible hope for even the slightest reduction in the unimaginable suffering of the galaxy is one of the most grimdark things about 40k. The Tau are not good. They're just slightly less awful than everyone else.
Medium of Death wrote: The Tau represent optimism, the glimmer of hope in the otherwise grim darkness of the 41st millennium.
No, the Tau represent grimdark. The fact that the Generic Evil Empire of pretty much any other scifi story is the only possible hope for even the slightest reduction in the unimaginable suffering of the galaxy is one of the most grimdark things about 40k. The Tau are not good. They're just slightly less awful than everyone else.
I'm not sure whether you are being sarcastic or whether you are actually treading the well worn path of "Tau are just as edgy as everybody else, nothin personnel kid..."
Medium of Death wrote: The Tau represent optimism, the glimmer of hope in the otherwise grim darkness of the 41st millennium.
No, the Tau represent grimdark. The fact that the Generic Evil Empire of pretty much any other scifi story is the only possible hope for even the slightest reduction in the unimaginable suffering of the galaxy is one of the most grimdark things about 40k. The Tau are not good. They're just slightly less awful than everyone else.
So, if not for the Tyranids, the Tau would be lost....blah blah blah, unstoppable military blah blah blah route blah blah blah sudden plot armor pulling the attacking force away.
This just made me remember why I can't stand GW writers, they're mind-achingly boring. Somehow the embattled but unstoppable might of the human armies is always somehow pulled back at the last instant before destroying whatever xenos they're up against. So unstoppable that they have to pull back, yeah.
If I'm remembering correctly, they did flesh the end of the Damocles Gulf arc out beyond the basic "Oh no, we need to go do something else now before we finish what we're already doing." When the Imperium hit Dal'yth, the Ethereals sent their best and brightest as mentioned in the above screen cap. What should have been a quick victory similar to the rest of the Gulf Crusade ended up turning into an unexpected war of attrition. While that sort of conflict is pretty much the Imperium's bread and butter, it was at the time unexpected enough to result in a resource sink, especially considering that the Imperium didn't actually know how advanced the Tau Empire's technology was and hadn't allocated enough forces to the conflict. They were taking more casualties than expected during the conflict on Dal'yth, and with the then-new threat of Hive Fleet Behemoth making a beeline towards Macragge, the Ordo Xenos sent recall orders to the head Inquisitor of the Imperial forces. The threat against the Ultramar sector outweighed the threat from a relatively minor xenos empire, so resources were reallocated based on priority. The Water Caste took advantage of the withdrawl to negotiate a cease-fire, but with the new campaign book, I think it's a safe bet to say the cease-fire is over.
While it's still not the most original storyline out there, I don't think it's as bad as you're making it out to be. No comment on the volumeof deus ex machina in GW writing, though.
On topic, has any more been leaked about the fluff behind the new campaign? I'm interested in seeing how they fit it in to the overall storyline in the Gulf.
agnosto wrote: You're right, I don't, because I think it's terrible writing and I don't like reading novels/material that assumes I'm stupid. Dumb stories can be fun, heck, I love the Stainless Steel Rat stories, but those are funny. GW writing seems to take itself really seriously AND is moronic to boot. /rant
Sorry, off topic but that blurp just reminded me of my opinion on GW writing/fluff.
I'm not particularly sure what's moronic about that Tau background. I think you might just have a chip on your shoulder against GW.
Certainly some of their more recent fluff pieces have been questionable but the idea that if the Imperium of Man brought its full power against the Tau they would be extinguished is hardly moronic. Tau started as an anomaly, a chance warp storm blocking the passage of the fleet that would have otherwise relegated them to the long list of alien species exterminated by the IoM. Damocles being a victory for the Tau would have brought further Imperial retribution had it not been for other more pressing threats.
You can either take this as just being from the mouth of a typical IoM propagandist, as a lot of the older fluff pieces were, or it can be take at face value that the IoM is still powerful even when decrepit.
The Tau represent optimism, the glimmer of hope in the otherwise grim darkness of the 41st millennium.
It's hardly ground braking science fiction, but it isn't meant to be.
I don't have a chip on my should about GW, hell, I own stock, that doesn't mean that their writers are worth a damn. Fluff writing has gotten to the point where I just ignore it and play the game....and sometimes I have to ignore unit entries like the SW murderbot.
I chose Tau because of the optimism and how different they were from the other factions.
Anywho.
1-9? That would be interesting for crisis squads but would make for an point expensive squad.
Tinkrr wrote: The Tau aren't grimdark, just imperialistic.
No, the Tau themselves aren't. But the fact that the one tiny little scrap of hope in the entire setting is a race whose primary virtue is being pragmatic enough to build a better gun and then offer you a chance to submit to slavery before killing you. That's way more grimdark than LOLOLOL MORE SKULLS PER SQUARE INCH ON EVERYTHING!!!
The ability to combine fire with a hunter contingent makes 9 suit squads kinda unnecessary....but in a CAD for Farsight (he's in the book but not any of the formations) or using forgeworld goodies you can make a unit that packs a hell of a punch.
I see 4-5 suit crisis teams being vey popular however.
Speaking from a financial standpoint, 9-man Crisis teams were likely intended to boost sales of a model that basically every Tau player has several of.
Speaking from a gameplay standpoint, I see a couple of things here. First is the continued "bigger is better" trend from Games Workshop, pushing bigger models and higher-point games. From a tactics standpoint, it does open up some interesting possibilities, although players will have to decide on their own personal sweet spot based on individual play style.
It also might be a troubling sign as to the fate of the FE book, depending on your interpretation. 9 man bodyguard? Sound familiar to anyone?
Tetrisphreak, is any of the FE stuff in the new(-ish) codex?
Mr. Oddity wrote: Speaking from a financial standpoint, 9-man Crisis teams were likely intended to boost sales of a model that basically every Tau player has several of.
Speaking from a gameplay standpoint, I see a couple of things here. First is the continued "bigger is better" trend from Games Workshop, pushing bigger models and higher-point games. From a tactics standpoint, it does open up some interesting possibilities, although players will have to decide on their own personal sweet spot based on individual play style.
It also might be a troubling sign as to the fate of the FE book, depending on your interpretation. 9 man bodyguard? Sound familiar to anyone?
Tetrisphreak, is any of the FE stuff in the new(-ish) codex?
No and farsight himself is in it but it makes no mention of his special bodyguard. However the codex is still the same name so just like the space marine supplements, if you want to use FE with a CAD it's still viable. I feel like right now the hunter contingent is going to take over the majority of tau lists though. Maybe we will see a mont'ka campaign book with more formations in it soon.
tetrisphreak wrote: The ability to combine fire with a hunter contingent makes 9 suit squads kinda unnecessary
Not really. You don't just get combined shooting, you also get way better FOC slot efficiency (at the cost of MSU). If you're taking nine crisis suits then putting all of them into a single unit keeps your other slots free for Riptides or whatever.
I checked that English rules leak, it confirms our fears that the Buffmander affects the "combined shooting". Death-stars are going to be sweating really hard when a potential entire army gets re-rolls to-hit, Ignores Cover, Monster/Tank Hunter, etc. One thing I noticed is that even though Darkstrider can't be taken as part of the Hunter Contingent, if you take a CAD alongside the HC you can put Darkstrider in a unit and his Structural Analyzer will still affect the shooting attack. Take that Thunderdome! Just make sure to get a few Markerlight hits on the unit (assuming Invisibility) through a bunch of Pathfinders/Tetras/etc and you should be good as even 1-2 tokens will see them firing at BS3 with re-rolls to-hit.
tetrisphreak wrote: The ability to combine fire with a hunter contingent makes 9 suit squads kinda unnecessary
Not really. You don't just get combined shooting, you also get way better FOC slot efficiency (at the cost of MSU). If you're taking nine crisis suits then putting all of them into a single unit keeps your other slots free for Riptides or whatever.
I get that. I do. But with the formations available we may as well have 10 elite slots. In a CAD this makes total sense and is awesome, in a hunter contingent with a retaliation cadre it's not inherently necessary. 9 shas'ui before upgrades is 198 and with typical wargear will go into the 550+ point range.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Caederes wrote: I checked that English rules leak, it confirms our fears that the Buffmander affects the "combined shooting". Death-stars are going to be sweating really hard when a potential entire army gets re-rolls to-hit, Ignores Cover, Monster/Tank Hunter, etc. One thing I noticed is that even though Darkstrider can't be taken as part of the Hunter Contingent, if you take a CAD alongside the HC you can put Darkstrider in a unit and his Structural Analyzer will still affect the shooting attack. Take that Thunderdome! Just make sure to get a few Markerlight hits on the unit (assuming Invisibility) through a bunch of Pathfinders/Tetras/etc and you should be good as even 1-2 tokens will see them firing at BS3 with re-rolls to-hit.
Yep. Tossing in a CAD for 90 pts plus dark strider isn't bad. Plus he can join fire warriors or pathfinders.
The main benefit I see of the 9-strong XV8 teams is that the Farsight Bomb got a whole lot cheaper, no more having to pay the "bodyguard" tax (meaning a 9-strong squad saves 90 points).
Mr. Oddity wrote: Speaking from a financial standpoint, 9-man Crisis teams were likely intended to boost sales of a model that basically every Tau player has several of.
Speaking from a gameplay standpoint, I see a couple of things here. First is the continued "bigger is better" trend from Games Workshop, pushing bigger models and higher-point games. From a tactics standpoint, it does open up some interesting possibilities, although players will have to decide on their own personal sweet spot based on individual play style.
It also might be a troubling sign as to the fate of the FE book, depending on your interpretation. 9 man bodyguard? Sound familiar to anyone?
Tetrisphreak, is any of the FE stuff in the new(-ish) codex?
No and farsight himself is in it but it makes no mention of his special bodyguard. However the codex is still the same name so just like the space marine supplements, if you want to use FE with a CAD it's still viable. I feel like right now the hunter contingent is going to take over the majority of tau lists though. Maybe we will see a mont'ka campaign book with more formations in it soon.
I'm not sure why everyone keeps saying that you have to use a CAD to field a Farsight Enclaves army detachment. In the supplement it says, "A Farsight Enclaves army detachment is chosen using the army list presented in Codex: Tau Empire." Isn't the Hunter Contingent an army list in Codex: Tau Empire, or am I missing something?
Tinkrr wrote: The Tau aren't grimdark, just imperialistic.
No, the Tau themselves aren't. But the fact that the one tiny little scrap of hope in the entire setting is a race whose primary virtue is being pragmatic enough to build a better gun and then offer you a chance to submit to slavery before killing you. That's way more grimdark than LOLOLOL MORE SKULLS PER SQUARE INCH ON EVERYTHING!!!
It's not slavery, it's being colonized, there's quite a big difference. In fact according to some of the lore, the Gue'vesa can be found on almost every Tau planet (including T'au itself) and are mostly treated as full citizens of the Tau empire.
I get it, in modern cinema anything imperialistic is synonymous with being evil, but it's usually not the imperialism itself that makes the empire evil, but rather the evil death wizards in their planet killing Deathstar, as in the case of Star Wars.
Edit: In fact, in several cases the Tau didn't just show up and say "join or die" but rather initiated trade, and over time convinced the population it was simply better to join their empire, as opposed to being a separate entity that just happened to be a trade partner. There's a reason these planets agree without any real threat of violence.
Mr. Oddity wrote: Speaking from a financial standpoint, 9-man Crisis teams were likely intended to boost sales of a model that basically every Tau player has several of.
Speaking from a gameplay standpoint, I see a couple of things here. First is the continued "bigger is better" trend from Games Workshop, pushing bigger models and higher-point games. From a tactics standpoint, it does open up some interesting possibilities, although players will have to decide on their own personal sweet spot based on individual play style.
It also might be a troubling sign as to the fate of the FE book, depending on your interpretation. 9 man bodyguard? Sound familiar to anyone?
Tetrisphreak, is any of the FE stuff in the new(-ish) codex?
No and farsight himself is in it but it makes no mention of his special bodyguard. However the codex is still the same name so just like the space marine supplements, if you want to use FE with a CAD it's still viable. I feel like right now the hunter contingent is going to take over the majority of tau lists though. Maybe we will see a mont'ka campaign book with more formations in it soon.
I'm not sure why everyone keeps saying that you have to use a CAD to field a Farsight Enclaves army. In the supplement it says, "A Farsight Enclaves army detachment is chosen using the army list presented in Codex: Tau Empire." Isn't the Hunter Contingent an army list in Codex: Tau Empire, or am I missing something?
Farsight himself isn't in any of the formations. Making crisis suits troops only matters in a CAD.
Mr. Oddity wrote: Speaking from a financial standpoint, 9-man Crisis teams were likely intended to boost sales of a model that basically every Tau player has several of.
Speaking from a gameplay standpoint, I see a couple of things here. First is the continued "bigger is better" trend from Games Workshop, pushing bigger models and higher-point games. From a tactics standpoint, it does open up some interesting possibilities, although players will have to decide on their own personal sweet spot based on individual play style.
It also might be a troubling sign as to the fate of the FE book, depending on your interpretation. 9 man bodyguard? Sound familiar to anyone?
Tetrisphreak, is any of the FE stuff in the new(-ish) codex?
No and farsight himself is in it but it makes no mention of his special bodyguard. However the codex is still the same name so just like the space marine supplements, if you want to use FE with a CAD it's still viable. I feel like right now the hunter contingent is going to take over the majority of tau lists though. Maybe we will see a mont'ka campaign book with more formations in it soon.
I'm not sure why everyone keeps saying that you have to use a CAD to field a Farsight Enclaves army. In the supplement it says, "A Farsight Enclaves army detachment is chosen using the army list presented in Codex: Tau Empire." Isn't the Hunter Contingent an army list in Codex: Tau Empire, or am I missing something?
Farsight himself isn't in any of the formations. Making crisis suits troops only matters in a CAD.
While it is true the Crisis suits as troops is wasted and are still required to take a three man unit, you are not required to field Farsight in an enclaves detachment (though I hope you can still field him in a Contingent since he was a godsend for deep striking crisis teams).
Great for APOC due to points...not really conceivable at 1850 pts
Ya, even with just a single missile pod each, you're looking at 1998 points...
Also the Farsight Enclaves supplement requires a single three man crisis team, so the real limit is 48, so 1776 points.
So i just played a 3300pt game (max points we could both do) with my Stormsurge. Didnt field the ghostkeels since im still painting them.
That thing is ridiculous. I went against necrons and he used the 4+ Reanimation formation + a Ctan. Rest of his army was a TON of immortals and destroyers with a handful of tomb blades. Ton of Lords too.
Turn 1 was basically a solid wiff. My entire army did 1 damage to a Monolith via bad Destroyer missile luck and took out ~5 warriors lol. Turn 2 onward....holy crap the Stormsurge just completely WRECKED his army almost on his own. Being able to fire multiple S10 large blasts at two different units on its own was insane, nevermind the gakload of missiles + airburster lol.
Stormsurge cost me 438pts to field. It easily cleared ~700pts with minimal ML support (since it was firing at way more targest than i could possibly mark up). Only reason it didnt kill his Ctan is because i wanted to see that thing fight the Stormsurge in melee - 4 rounds later he finally took the stormsurge out by a hair lol, We already said i won at that point so that was just for fun.
Im never fielding that thing until i hit 3k points or more. Fielding a stormsurge at 2k points or less is seriously a bigger dick move than a Riptide in a sub-1k list.
@Vineheart01
Were you using the now confirmed rule leaks for the game, or just the current rules with the Stormsurge (meaning no Destroyer-strength missiles)?
That about lines up with all of my experiences playing against or observing it so far, and yet there are still people that say it is "merely solid" or weak. It has made its points back in every game I've personally been involved in or watched so far!
Vineheart01 wrote: So i just played a 3300pt game (max points we could both do) with my Stormsurge. Didnt field the ghostkeels since im still painting them.
That thing is ridiculous. I went against necrons and he used the 4+ Reanimation formation + a Ctan. Rest of his army was a TON of immortals and destroyers with a handful of tomb blades. Ton of Lords too.
Turn 1 was basically a solid wiff. My entire army did 1 damage to a Monolith via bad Destroyer missile luck and took out ~5 warriors lol. Turn 2 onward....holy crap the Stormsurge just completely WRECKED his army almost on his own. Being able to fire multiple S10 large blasts at two different units on its own was insane, nevermind the gakload of missiles + airburster lol.
Stormsurge cost me 438pts to field. It easily cleared ~700pts with minimal ML support (since it was firing at way more targest than i could possibly mark up). Only reason it didnt kill his Ctan is because i wanted to see that thing fight the Stormsurge in melee - 4 rounds later he finally took the stormsurge out by a hair lol, We already said i won at that point so that was just for fun.
Im never fielding that thing until i hit 3k points or more. Fielding a stormsurge at 2k points or less is seriously a bigger dick move than a Riptide in a sub-1k list.
Both of the S10 blasts were from one weapon, right? How did you fire them at different targets? Each weapon can be fired at different targets, but I'm pretty sure all shots from a single weapon go to the same target.
I used ML to fire Str D missiles but all i did was it changed the profile, they still fired normally otherwise (BS3 + whatever extra ML i had, not ignoring cover). However that was actually a nonfactor. I straight up missed two of them and only did 1 damage with the other, and thats with heavy ML support. The forth one i Deathblowed a monolith, but aside from that it was primarily his S10 large blasts and gakload of missiles doing the damage via Stabilizers.
I wouldnt be surprised if i did something wrong since i only had the fuzzy rules, so i was going off what i remember reading for it (fire weapons twice, counts as separate shooting attack)
Also i did NOT use the Ethereal rule loophole with his pulse cannon. I am positive thats a loophole, otherwise you can literally spend 50pts to make it fire 3 large blast S10 AP2 Ordnance shots at 36". Everyone agreed with me that it has to be a rule oversight and wasnt intended because thats just nuts.
Both of the S10 blasts were from one weapon, right? How did you fire them at different targets? Each weapon can be fired at different targets, but I'm pretty sure all shots from a single weapon go to the same target.
Stabilizers. Fire the weapon twice, counts as a separate shooting action. Unless i misread the fuzzy rules, that means i need more markerlight support on the same target and i can change targets. Also i was scattering like a mofo lol
Well that wasent really a typical necron list. At 3300 points he could have comfortably ran 18 wraiths, which would have probably tied him up all game.
Who the heck has 18 wraiths? lol my 2 necron friends could field 12 if they pooled together.
But no he didnt have any wraiths. If he did i would have focus fired the gak out of them because even in the old rules they scared the piss outta me.
Orock wrote: Well that wasent really a typical necron list. At 3300 points he could have comfortably ran 18 wraiths, which would have probably tied him up all game.
I think this is really highlighting the problem: the only counter is to use the most powerful Necron unit, and any list that didn't bring wraiths is "not typical" and probably doomed. There's a huge problem when you have to make sure that your opponent is bringing a powerful list before you can put your shiny new toy on the table.
Vector Strike wrote: 1-9 Crisis is awesome. But letting them grab CIB/AFB is even better
Neither is really that good though, I mean they'r not bad, but we just already have Missile Sides and the new Ion Rake. Which means the Plasma Rifle is that much more unique on the Crisis Suits.
Yet another reason I'd like to see regular Rail Rifle options on the Crisis Suits, even if they're limited.
CIB im not really a big fan of since at 18" i better be either pumping a ton of shots or penning armor. Rather sac the extra shot and be twice as far away.
AFB is anti-troop material. 6 crisis suits with AFBs could lay on a TON of hurt on troops. I fully intend to do that eventually lol
Vineheart01 wrote: CIB im not really a big fan of since at 18" i better be either pumping a ton of shots or penning armor. Rather sac the extra shot and be twice as far away.
AFB is anti-troop material. 6 crisis suits with AFBs could lay on a TON of hurt on troops. I fully intend to do that eventually lol
Only problem is getting the number of AFBs you would need. AFAIK, they're still exclusive to the commander, and one a box at that. Multiple CIB or AFB lists will rely heavily on either eBay bits or scratchbuilding.
Don't worry, you got the rule with Stabilizing Anchors right. It's a separate shooting attack made after the first meaning that you get to resolve your shots at different targets with the same weapons. Kinda funny to see that your Destroyer Missiles whiffed, though getting a Deathblow on a Monolith is obviously no joke as that is a 2nd-century (tsktsk) death right there!
Vineheart01 wrote: CIB im not really a big fan of since at 18" i better be either pumping a ton of shots or penning armor. Rather sac the extra shot and be twice as far away.
AFB is anti-troop material. 6 crisis suits with AFBs could lay on a TON of hurt on troops. I fully intend to do that eventually lol
Only problem is getting the number of AFBs you would need. AFAIK, they're still exclusive to the commander, and one a box at that. Multiple CIB or AFB lists will rely heavily on either eBay bits or scratchbuilding.
Or you can just clearly state that these models have Airbursting Fragmentation Projectors. You don't have to make everything WYSIWYG. If you do, scratch building is the way to go.
Vineheart01 wrote: CIB im not really a big fan of since at 18" i better be either pumping a ton of shots or penning armor. Rather sac the extra shot and be twice as far away.
AFB is anti-troop material. 6 crisis suits with AFBs could lay on a TON of hurt on troops. I fully intend to do that eventually lol
Only problem is getting the number of AFBs you would need. AFAIK, they're still exclusive to the commander, and one a box at that. Multiple CIB or AFB lists will rely heavily on either eBay bits or scratchbuilding.
Or you can just clearly state that these models have Airbursting Fragmentation Projectors. You don't have to make everything WYSIWYG. If you do, scratch building is the way to go.
Right, I kinda...forgot about counts-as. I'm mainly in the hobby for the modelling aspect, so I'm the kind of guy who would take the time to make the extras. My bad.
Wait, the Fire Team rule applies to all vehicles and MCs, not just the ones that have the rule?
Well, that makes Coordinated Firepower even better for any vehicles that don't have the Fire Team rule. It also allows a Riptide, a Skyray, and a Hammerhead to join up and activate their Fire Team rule without a full unit of any of them.
Oh, and since three units teamed up, they trigger Coordinated Firepower's second rule and get another +1 BS, so BS6 Hammerheads and Skyrays and BS5 Riptides and Ghostkeels.
Vector Strike wrote: 1-9 Crisis is awesome. But letting them grab CIB/AFB is even better
Neither is really that good though, I mean they'r not bad, but we just already have Missile Sides and the new Ion Rake. Which means the Plasma Rifle is that much more unique on the Crisis Suits.
Yet another reason I'd like to see regular Rail Rifle options on the Crisis Suits, even if they're limited.
Ghostkeel starts at 130p. For a bit more, you can have 3 crisis with 2 CIBs each. They'll pump 18 S7 shots while for a bit less the Ghostkeel will do only 6.
You use CIB Crisis with Deep Strike. they're not worth it starting the game in the table. Broadsides aren't mobile. Or just use both and have even more S7.
Same with AFP. They're better than flamers in pratically any scenario, bar overwatch.
Vector Strike wrote: 1-9 Crisis is awesome. But letting them grab CIB/AFB is even better
Neither is really that good though, I mean they'r not bad, but we just already have Missile Sides and the new Ion Rake. Which means the Plasma Rifle is that much more unique on the Crisis Suits.
Yet another reason I'd like to see regular Rail Rifle options on the Crisis Suits, even if they're limited.
Ghostkeel starts at 130p. For a bit more, you can have 3 crisis with 2 CIBs each. They'll pump 18 S7 shots while for a bit less the Ghostkeel will do only 6.
You use CIB Crisis with Deep Strike. they're not worth it starting the game in the table. Broadsides aren't mobile. Or just use both and have even more S7.
Same with AFP. They're better than flamers in pratically any scenario, bar overwatch.
Crisis in Retaliation are simply murder.
Broadsides aren't mobile UNLESS YOU DEEPSTRIKE THEM!
Nilok wrote: Wait, the Fire Team rule applies to all vehicles and MCs, not just the ones that have the rule?
Well, that makes Coordinated Firepower even better for any vehicles that don't have the Fire Team rule. It also allows a Riptide, a Skyray, and a Hammerhead to join up and activate their Fire Team rule without a full unit of any of them.
Oh, and since three units teamed up, they trigger Coordinated Firepower's second rule and get another +1 BS, so BS6 Hammerheads and Skyrays and BS5 Riptides and Ghostkeels.
Only some vehicles have Fire Team rule. Devilfishes and Piranhas don't.
Broadsides aren't mobile UNLESS YOU DEEPSTRIKE THEM!
Yes. But, if you're deepstriking them, you're deepstriking 3 units of crisis. why give crisis 2 shots S7 weapons when you can give them 3 shots S7 weapons? 18" isn't a problem when you DS.
Nilok wrote: Wait, the Fire Team rule applies to all vehicles and MCs, not just the ones that have the rule?
Well, that makes Coordinated Firepower even better for any vehicles that don't have the Fire Team rule. It also allows a Riptide, a Skyray, and a Hammerhead to join up and activate their Fire Team rule without a full unit of any of them.
Oh, and since three units teamed up, they trigger Coordinated Firepower's second rule and get another +1 BS, so BS6 Hammerheads and Skyrays and BS5 Riptides and Ghostkeels.
Only some vehicles have Fire Team rule. Devilfishes and Piranhas don't.
Thats does not matter. According to the rules, as long as 3 thing with it do, ALL MC or vehicles get it. Aka, I fire 3 hammerheads at one target, every single other MC or Vehicle that also combines and shoots with the 3 hammerheads also get +1 BS even though they do not have the fire team rule themselves.
Requizen wrote: Are there any weapon updates in the book? Specifically Railsides?
railsides the same AirBurst Frag Proj. and Cyclic Ion blasters are no longer 1 per army, all crisis can take them
Destroyer missiles (on stormsurge) are Str D, AP1 when fired with a marker light
Vector Strike wrote: 1-9 Crisis is awesome. But letting them grab CIB/AFB is even better
Neither is really that good though, I mean they'r not bad, but we just already have Missile Sides and the new Ion Rake. Which means the Plasma Rifle is that much more unique on the Crisis Suits.
Yet another reason I'd like to see regular Rail Rifle options on the Crisis Suits, even if they're limited.
Ghostkeel starts at 130p. For a bit more, you can have 3 crisis with 2 CIBs each. They'll pump 18 S7 shots while for a bit less the Ghostkeel will do only 6.
You use CIB Crisis with Deep Strike. they're not worth it starting the game in the table. Broadsides aren't mobile. Or just use both and have even more S7.
Same with AFP. They're better than flamers in pratically any scenario, bar overwatch.
Crisis in Retaliation are simply murder.
The interesting thing is that the difference between three Crisis Suits with 2x CIB each, and two Crisis Suits with 2x CIB, is 26 points in either direction of the Ghostkeel. As in three Suits is 26pts more than a Ghost, and two Suits are 26pts under a Keel.
That being said, does that in any way make them better than the Plasma Rifle option they could have? Yes, you gain a total of +6 shots and +1 strength across the unit, but you give up AP2, which isn't common within the Tau army, and lets you kill things like Termies, Marines, and even Suits that much better. More so, you're forcing yourself to deep strike, just to gain +6 shots at half the range, if you compare them to Missile Pod Suits, which can in many cases hurt you a lot.
It might just be me, but if I want fire power I'd go for Missile Sides, if I want that fire power but on a more mobile version with much better survival capabilities, I'd go with a Ghostkeel, and if I wanted the middle point of those two, I'd go for Missile Suits. Though like I said, it's not that the CIB is bad, it's just that it's redundant, and there are simply better options like Plasma Rifles when fitting the Suits, as they actually offer something unique.
As for the AFP, I just don't feel like it does all that much either. Yes it's incredibly good at killing troops, but Tau don't really struggle with that as is.
The Fire Team rule says "all vehicles and monstrous creatures IN THE UNIT". Don't see what the confusion is, only the unit with the special rule benefits. Come on guys....
Nilok wrote: Wait, the Fire Team rule applies to all vehicles and MCs, not just the ones that have the rule?
Well, that makes Coordinated Firepower even better for any vehicles that don't have the Fire Team rule. It also allows a Riptide, a Skyray, and a Hammerhead to join up and activate their Fire Team rule without a full unit of any of them.
Oh, and since three units teamed up, they trigger Coordinated Firepower's second rule and get another +1 BS, so BS6 Hammerheads and Skyrays and BS5 Riptides and Ghostkeels.
Only some vehicles have Fire Team rule. Devilfishes and Piranhas don't.
Thats does not matter. According to the rules, as long as 3 thing with it do, ALL MC or vehicles get it. Aka, I fire 3 hammerheads at one target, every single other MC or Vehicle that also combines and shoots with the 3 hammerheads also get +1 BS even though they do not have the fire team rule themselves.
you need the fire them rule to benefit from the fire team rule.
Requizen wrote: Are there any weapon updates in the book? Specifically Railsides?
railsides the same AirBurst Frag Proj. and Cyclic Ion blasters are no longer 1 per army, all crisis can take them
Destroyer missiles (on stormsurge) are Str D, AP1 when fired with a marker light
Thats all i can think of now
Specifically 1 ML can be spent to upgrade one d missile to a D missile, on a 1 per basis. The stormsurge then fires it at its own BS whatever that happens to be.
By the by, remember when I pointed out a trick involving Buffmander + Target Locks in a unit to get the Buffmander benefits and do the focus fire trick at multiple targets?
The wording of the Coordinated Firepower is as follows;
"Whenever a unit from a Hunter Contingent selects a target in the shooting phase, any number of other units from the same Detachment who can still shoot can add their firepower to the attack. These units must shoot the same target, resolving their shots as if they were a single unit - this includes the use of markerlight abilities. When 3 or more units combine their firepower, the firing models add 1 to their Ballistic Skill."
Thoughts?
Also, potential rules question; if a Stormsurge is a secondary/tertiary/whatever unit that joins the shooting attack, can it legally fire one gun at the target but still shoot its other weapons at other targets at the same time? Regardless of how it splits its attacks it is still shooting at the same target....also thoughts?
Caederes wrote: The Fire Team rule says "all vehicles and monstrous creatures IN THE UNIT". Don't see what the confusion is, only the unit with the special rule benefits. Come on guys....
Coordinated Firepower wrote:These units must shoot the same target, resolving their shots as if they were a single unit - this includes the use of markerlight abilities.
Nilok wrote: Wait, the Fire Team rule applies to all vehicles and MCs, not just the ones that have the rule?
Well, that makes Coordinated Firepower even better for any vehicles that don't have the Fire Team rule. It also allows a Riptide, a Skyray, and a Hammerhead to join up and activate their Fire Team rule without a full unit of any of them.
Oh, and since three units teamed up, they trigger Coordinated Firepower's second rule and get another +1 BS, so BS6 Hammerheads and Skyrays and BS5 Riptides and Ghostkeels.
Only some vehicles have Fire Team rule. Devilfishes and Piranhas don't.
Thats does not matter. According to the rules, as long as 3 thing with it do, ALL MC or vehicles get it. Aka, I fire 3 hammerheads at one target, every single other MC or Vehicle that also combines and shoots with the 3 hammerheads also get +1 BS even though they do not have the fire team rule themselves.
you need the fire them rule to benefit from the fire team rule.
No you do not, read the exact wording. As long as 3 models in a unit have fire team, ALL MONSTEROUS CREATURES AND VEHICLES IN THE UNIT GET +1BS. When firing with the combined firing of the hunters contingent, you fire multiple units AS IF ALL MODELS ARE IN THE SAME UNIT.
AKA as long as 3 models with fire team fire at a single target (even if not in the same unit), all other MC and vehicles firing at that same target all get +1 BS as well
Crisis suits also have a bad habit of going byebye at medium range, which the CIB forces. Ghostkeels even without their stealth rules are T5 with 4 wounds. That makes them 4x as hard to kill normally and significantly harder to instaspork.
Almost every time i field crisis suits with something other than missilepods, they manage to find an S8 shot to the face. Ghostkeel wont care more than he would about any shot hitting him.
I'd rather field the ghosts. And dont forget to factor in their fusion blaster. Yeah its one shot, but a melta usually kills something every turn. Usually.
Oh now I see what you guys are getting at, you are specifying for the Hunter Contingent combined fire rule. It seemed like you guys were suggesting anyone could get the rule as long as three vehicles were in a unit with the rule.
In that case, yeah...Fire Team is REALLY nasty.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Actually to the guys that have the codex, is the Shoot then Run thing for the Hunter Cadre using Snap Shots like the Ethereal power or is it regular shots? luchiban didn't clarify this. Cheers!
It doesn't hurt the Ghostkeel can also use the Holopoint to kind of break a lot of the special burst things people might do, with all their psyker powers and junk.
Oh and, not only that but I'm sure we'll see less squads of Crisis Suits now that they're 1-9 as opposed to 1-3, since all of a sudden we can totally make that much more use of our uh-mazing Buffmanders. (As a former support player in League, I love the idea of a support Commander).
Edit: Sorry if I missed it, but aside from that one "meh" formation, did the Vespids get changed at all?
Caederes wrote: Oh now I see what you guys are getting at, you are specifying for the Hunter Contingent combined fire rule. It seemed like you guys were suggesting anyone could get the rule as long as three vehicles were in a unit with the rule.
In that case, yeah...Fire Team is REALLY nasty.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Actually to the guys that have the codex, is the Shoot then Run thing for the Hunter Cadre using Snap Shots like the Ethereal power or is it regular shots? luchiban didn't clarify this. Cheers!
It just says run then shoot if within 12" of the formations Fireblade or commander. It does not say snapshot.
To be fair, Infiltrate is a pretty huge buff for Vespid, it doesn't make them good but it makes them usable. The problem is that you need to spend over 200 points on Kroot just to get Infiltrating Vespid.
Caederes wrote: Oh now I see what you guys are getting at, you are specifying for the Hunter Contingent combined fire rule. It seemed like you guys were suggesting anyone could get the rule as long as three vehicles were in a unit with the rule.
In that case, yeah...Fire Team is REALLY nasty.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Actually to the guys that have the codex, is the Shoot then Run thing for the Hunter Cadre using Snap Shots like the Ethereal power or is it regular shots? luchiban didn't clarify this. Cheers!
It just says run then shoot if within 12" of the formations Fireblade or commander. It does not say snapshot.
Wow that's actually insane, especially as it also works with vehicles for Flat Out. Jeez....ummm, yeah, as someone pointed out a few pages back Running does not count as moving for the purposes of being treated as stationary when firing Heavy weapons, meaning Tau have moving Broadsides firing at full effect now
Caederes wrote: To be fair, Infiltrate is a pretty huge buff for Vespid, it doesn't make them good but it makes them usable. The problem is that you need to spend over 200 points on Kroot just to get Infiltrating Vespid.
Caederes wrote: Oh now I see what you guys are getting at, you are specifying for the Hunter Contingent combined fire rule. It seemed like you guys were suggesting anyone could get the rule as long as three vehicles were in a unit with the rule.
In that case, yeah...Fire Team is REALLY nasty.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Actually to the guys that have the codex, is the Shoot then Run thing for the Hunter Cadre using Snap Shots like the Ethereal power or is it regular shots? luchiban didn't clarify this. Cheers!
It just says run then shoot if within 12" of the formations Fireblade or commander. It does not say snapshot.
Wow that's actually insane, especially as it also works with vehicles for Flat Out. Jeez....ummm, yeah, as someone pointed out a few pages back Running does not count as moving for the purposes of being treated as stationary when firing Heavy weapons, meaning Tau have moving Broadsides firing at full effect now
Wait wait did i seriously miss crisis suits being 1-9?
What the heck? Thats insane lol. My friends fething hate my MP trio as it is, theyre going to wanna kick my butt if i even double that let alone triple rofl
The Hunter Contingent gives +1 Ballistic Skill if 3 or more units shoot at the same target.
The Fire Team rule gives +1 Ballistic Skill for the combined shooting as long as three monstrous creatures/vehicles are a part of the attack (they all count as one unit regardless of whether they are purchased as such).
So basically....I can take a Hunter Cadre, get a Riptide, a Stormsurge and a Hammerhead to shoot at one unit and get +2 BS from the Hunter Contingent and Fire Team rules, or they can add to the combined shooting of the rest of the army and give them +2 BS as well?
WHAT!?
Oh, and anyone in the Hunter Cadre can Run then Shoot without having to Snap Fire, meaning Broadsides/Pathfinders/Hammerheads/etc can actually "move" and still fire at full effect.
Broadsides would still fire snap since they need Relentless to move and shoot to begin with. Unless theyre apart of the retaliation cadre, which gives them relentless.
Ive done that a few times where ive had an Ethereal pop Zephyrs Grace and ran my broadsides into a more favorable midfield position. They fire snaps if i move at all, so why not move an extra D6?
Got a hold of a copy of the leaked codex from the black library from earlier. Pretty much everything that has been leaked so far is accurate. The only thing that I noticed that was different was that the models that have the fire team special rule will always be +1 BS, regardless of who they shoot at, as long as the squad consists of 3 models. Crisis suits and broadsides do not have this special rule. The ones that do are:
If you guys have any questions, I'm happy to answer them. I didn't play Tau with the previous codex, however, so if you're looking for a comparison, I'll have to actually flip back and forth to figure it out. No problem doing it - just might take a little longer
Vineheart01 wrote: Broadsides would still fire snap since they need Relentless to move and shoot to begin with. Unless theyre apart of the retaliation cadre, which gives them relentless.
Ive done that a few times where ive had an Ethereal pop Zephyrs Grace and ran my broadsides into a more favorable midfield position. They fire snaps if i move at all, so why not move an extra D6?
Heavy weapons require stationary models in the movement phase. Running in the shooting phase doesn't apply.
To be fair, is the 1-9 thing really that big of a deal? Like we've already had a codex supplement that allowed Crisis Suits as troop choices.
I think what they're trying to do is make Crisis Suits, and to some extent Riptides, saturate less of the Elite slot, such that we have more room for things like the Ghostkeel and the Stealth Suits. Though that still doesn't address all of the issues Stealth Suits have, and I still think they'd just make better troop options.
Realistically many people already fielded six plus Crisis Suits, and could get away with more thanks to things like the FSE or just the body guard teams, but at least now there's more room for other elite choices. Not only that, but making one unit of six, instead of two units of three, isn't exactly always better, because it makes shooting more awkward at times, while also making return fire potentially do more damage.
Also, confirmed that the run and shoot thing works, but only for units from the hunter cadre, and only if they're within 12" of the commander at the start of the shooting phase. So no stealth cadre units doing that
Tinkrr wrote: To be fair, is the 1-9 thing really that big of a deal? Like we've already had a codex supplement that allowed Crisis Suits as troop choices.
I think what they're trying to do is make Crisis Suits, and to some extent Riptides, saturate less of the Elite slot, such that we have more room for things like the Ghostkeel and the Stealth Suits. Though that still doesn't address all of the issues Stealth Suits have, and I still think they'd just make better troop options.
Realistically many people already fielded six plus Crisis Suits, and could get away with more thanks to things like the FSE or just the body guard teams, but at least now there's more room for other elite choices. Not only that, but making one unit of six, instead of two units of three, isn't exactly always better, because it makes shooting more awkward at times, while also making return fire potentially do more damage.
It is for a few reasons.
1) It makes a Farsight Bomb 90 points cheaper (no need to use Bodyguards).
2) It alleviates the stacked Elites slot problem everyone has with Tau.
3) It makes them that much nastier for a Buffmander to join without requiring Farsight. Imagine 9 dual Missile Pod Crisis Suits with a Buffmander as part of the Hunter Contingent Not the most efficient unit as it is still fairly easy to kill (I guess use the Commander with Iridium Armor to tank somewhat?) but nonetheless hilarious when you throw Target Locks in.
Quite frankly only my MP Suits would have more than 3 crisis suits in them. Other squads would probably goto 4 max since i always feel 3 isnt enough, but i feel 6 is overkill if theyre trying to utilize fusions/plasmas.
That and the base size increase would be a problem. Still think 50mm is too damn big for a crisis suit.
luke1705 wrote: Also, confirmed that the run and shoot thing works, but only for units from the hunter cadre, and only if they're within 12" of the commander at the start of the shooting phase. So no stealth cadre units doing that
Stealth suits in the hunter cadre can....but not the optimized stealth group. (As if OSG needed any extras anyway)
Vineheart01 wrote: Quite frankly only my MP Suits would have more than 3 crisis suits in them. Other squads would probably goto 4 max since i always feel 3 isnt enough, but i feel 6 is overkill if theyre trying to utilize fusions/plasmas.
That and the base size increase would be a problem. Still think 50mm is too damn big for a crisis suit.
The old Crisis Suits barely fit on 40mm bases, I see no problem with putting the new ones on 50mms honestly. Sure it might suck in some ways from game-balance perspective but honestly it is the best fit for them model-wise.
Tinkrr wrote: To be fair, is the 1-9 thing really that big of a deal? Like we've already had a codex supplement that allowed Crisis Suits as troop choices.
I think what they're trying to do is make Crisis Suits, and to some extent Riptides, saturate less of the Elite slot, such that we have more room for things like the Ghostkeel and the Stealth Suits. Though that still doesn't address all of the issues Stealth Suits have, and I still think they'd just make better troop options.
Realistically many people already fielded six plus Crisis Suits, and could get away with more thanks to things like the FSE or just the body guard teams, but at least now there's more room for other elite choices. Not only that, but making one unit of six, instead of two units of three, isn't exactly always better, because it makes shooting more awkward at times, while also making return fire potentially do more damage.
It is for a few reasons.
1) It makes a Farsight Bomb 90 points cheaper (no need to use Bodyguards).
2) It alleviates the stacked Elites slot problem everyone has with Tau.
3) It makes them that much nastier for a Buffmander to join without requiring Farsight. Imagine 9 dual Missile Pod Crisis Suits with a Buffmander as part of the Hunter Contingent Not the most efficient unit as it is still fairly easy to kill (I guess use the Commander with Iridium Armor to tank somewhat?) but nonetheless hilarious when you throw Target Locks in.
I so totally addressed all of those thing, except the first one because I don't like Farsight.... Shadowsun for life!
Oh, speaking of which, did Shadowsun get any changes in the new codex?
Tinkrr wrote: To be fair, is the 1-9 thing really that big of a deal? Like we've already had a codex supplement that allowed Crisis Suits as troop choices.
I think what they're trying to do is make Crisis Suits, and to some extent Riptides, saturate less of the Elite slot, such that we have more room for things like the Ghostkeel and the Stealth Suits. Though that still doesn't address all of the issues Stealth Suits have, and I still think they'd just make better troop options.
Realistically many people already fielded six plus Crisis Suits, and could get away with more thanks to things like the FSE or just the body guard teams, but at least now there's more room for other elite choices. Not only that, but making one unit of six, instead of two units of three, isn't exactly always better, because it makes shooting more awkward at times, while also making return fire potentially do more damage.
It is for a few reasons.
1) It makes a Farsight Bomb 90 points cheaper (no need to use Bodyguards).
2) It alleviates the stacked Elites slot problem everyone has with Tau.
3) It makes them that much nastier for a Buffmander to join without requiring Farsight. Imagine 9 dual Missile Pod Crisis Suits with a Buffmander as part of the Hunter Contingent Not the most efficient unit as it is still fairly easy to kill (I guess use the Commander with Iridium Armor to tank somewhat?) but nonetheless hilarious when you throw Target Locks in.
I so totally addressed all of those thing, except the first one because I don't like Farsight.... Shadowsun for life!
Oh, speaking of which, did Shadowsun get any changes in the new codex?
Omission of her special stealth bodyguard team, but a rule that says stealth suits in her unit auto pass look out sir. Otherwise same.
@Tinkrr I know, just thought I would clarify why it is good for everyone.
Regarding Shadowsun, not that we've heard. She got weaker in 7th Edition (core ruleset) because of the changes to Independent Characters joining Monstrous Creatures (she used to be able to join Riptides) and because she can only join units that have Infiltrate during deployment. Of course, the Optimized Stealth Cadre means the latter one is no longer a problem
luke1705 wrote: Got a hold of a copy of the leaked codex from the black library from earlier. Pretty much everything that has been leaked so far is accurate. The only thing that I noticed that was different was that the models that have the fire team special rule will always be +1 BS, regardless of who they shoot at, as long as the squad consists of 3 models. Crisis suits and broadsides do not have this special rule. The ones that do are:
If you guys have any questions, I'm happy to answer them. I didn't play Tau with the previous codex, however, so if you're looking for a comparison, I'll have to actually flip back and forth to figure it out. No problem doing it - just might take a little longer
So any changes in the support systems and signature systems?
Is the heavy retribution cadre 2 units of stormsurge?
Does the ghostkeel gain infiltrate in the optimized stealth cadre?
Can you elaborate the benefit of firebase support cadre? Does all 3 unit have to target same unit?
Any changes in the seeker missiles and markerlights?
Any limitations on what support systems a ghostkeel can take?
The books imply we'll see another campaign book. Warzone: Monte'ka with Farsight.
Wanna bet even MORE Tau greater goodness is on the way folks? And if they let us field this much suits for default Tau what will his schtick be now? Makes me wonder if he'll get a full expansion with unique units.
Thats a misconception about infiltrate.
IC's without infiltrate cannot deploy with infiltrating units, however ICs with infiltrate can deploy via deepstrike or outflank. Technically the wording allows them to infiltrate units too but the order of deployment....if you call it that...has always caused issues with RAW people so nobody believes its a normal strat.
Considering the infiltrate rule says "least one model with this rule" it leads me to believe ICs are capable of giving a unit infiltrate, but like i said nobody believes it because of this so called "deployment order"
Personally i find it just another jab at tau players, since were the only ones with an infiltrating IC thats actually worth bringing. Imagine infiltrating missilesides with stealth + shroud....yeah i totally see why people think its illegal.
Im not sure if i'd ever put her in a Stealth Cadre. Shes kinda not needed in there lol
luke1705 wrote: Got a hold of a copy of the leaked codex from the black library from earlier. Pretty much everything that has been leaked so far is accurate. The only thing that I noticed that was different was that the models that have the fire team special rule will always be +1 BS, regardless of who they shoot at, as long as the squad consists of 3 models. Crisis suits and broadsides do not have this special rule. The ones that do are:
If you guys have any questions, I'm happy to answer them. I didn't play Tau with the previous codex, however, so if you're looking for a comparison, I'll have to actually flip back and forth to figure it out. No problem doing it - just might take a little longer
So any changes in the support systems and signature systems?
Is the heavy retribution cadre 2 units of stormsurge?
Does the ghostkeel gain infiltrate in the optimized stealth cadre?
Can you elaborate the benefit of firebase support cadre? Does all 3 unit have to target same unit?
Any changes in the seeker missiles and markerlights?
Any limitations on what support systems a ghostkeel can take?
Thanks!
I can answer these based on what luchiban said.
No changes to Support Systems/Signature Systems, no obvious ones anyway.
Yes, two Stormsurge units and one Ghostkeel unit.
It does not.
If all units in a Firebase Support Cadre shoot at the same unit - which means they also get the Hunter Contingent +1 Ballistic Skill bonus if they link fire - then they get Monster Hunter and Tank Hunter.
Seeker Missiles are unchanged. Markerlights are unchanged save that they can now turn the Stormsurge' Destroyer Missiles into actual Destroyer weapons, changing the profile from S8 AP1 to S AP1.
Not that we've seen.
Another question for the codex people, is the Guardian Drone only for the Breachers or is standardized?
Caederes wrote: @Tinkrr I know, just thought I would clarify why it is good for everyone.
Regarding Shadowsun, not that we've heard. She got weaker in 7th Edition (core ruleset) because of the changes to Independent Characters joining Monstrous Creatures (she used to be able to join Riptides) and because she can only join units that have Infiltrate during deployment. Of course, the Optimized Stealth Cadre means the latter one is no longer a problem
Really the only one I think that matters is the Buffmander being able to buff more suits, but there are those downsides still from being one ball of units. Then again I would have still given all of my Suits Target Locks, since I like throwing in some Marker Drones, to shoot at a different unit than the Suits at BS 5, thanks to the Commander D:
Shadowsun also just costs a lot of points for what she does :/.
Gamgee wrote: The books imply we'll see another campaign book. Warzone: Monte'ka with Farsight.
Wanna bet even MORE Tau greater goodness is on the way folks? And if they let us field this much suits for default Tau what will his schtick be now? Makes me wonder if he'll get a full expansion with unique units.
I would love to see what they've been cooking.
Hopefully melee focus suits. they all have WS3 and some kind of power weapons. That would be pretty sweet.
Tinkrr wrote: Another question for the codex people, is the Guardian Drone only for the Breachers or is standardized?
Caederes wrote: @Tinkrr I know, just thought I would clarify why it is good for everyone.
Regarding Shadowsun, not that we've heard. She got weaker in 7th Edition (core ruleset) because of the changes to Independent Characters joining Monstrous Creatures (she used to be able to join Riptides) and because she can only join units that have Infiltrate during deployment. Of course, the Optimized Stealth Cadre means the latter one is no longer a problem
Really the only one I think that matters is the Buffmander being able to buff more suits, but there are those downsides still from being one ball of units. Then again I would have still given all of my Suits Target Locks, since I like throwing in some Marker Drones, to shoot at a different unit than the Suits at BS 5, thanks to the Commander D:
Shadowsun also just costs a lot of points for what she does :/.
So basically....I can take a Hunter Cadre, get a Riptide, a Stormsurge and a Hammerhead to shoot at one unit and get +2 BS from the Hunter Contingent and Fire Team rules, or they can add to the combined shooting of the rest of the army and give them +2 BS as well?
Thankfully the +1BS for Fireteam ONLY (heh) applies to Vehicles/MCs, so models not of that type would only get +1BS, not +2.
Vineheart01 wrote: Thats a misconception about infiltrate.
IC's without infiltrate cannot deploy with infiltrating units, however ICs with infiltrate can deploy via deepstrike or outflank. Technically the wording allows them to infiltrate units too but the order of deployment....if you call it that...has always caused issues with RAW people so nobody believes its a normal strat.
Considering the infiltrate rule says "least one model with this rule" it leads me to believe ICs are capable of giving a unit infiltrate, but like i said nobody believes it because of this so called "deployment order"
Personally i find it just another jab at tau players, since were the only ones with an infiltrating IC thats actually worth bringing. Imagine infiltrating missilesides with stealth + shroud....yeah i totally see why people think its illegal.
Im not sure if i'd ever put her in a Stealth Cadre. Shes kinda not needed in there lol
It's not really a misconception, it's clearly the rules-as-written. Of course, there's nothing stopping you from deploying Shadowsun next to a non-Infiltrating unit when she Infiltrates, she will automatically join them in her first movement phase (pray you go first or hide her). It's something to remember if you only want her for the Drone (re-roll 1s to-hit bubble) and the Stealth/Shrouded (awesome for Broadsides).
Gamgee wrote:Got my hands on both the new codex and Kayon. Excellent.
My one and only question related to Tau:
Does Kauyon have any rules, formations, cadres, characters, or contingents that are not in the new Codex? If yes, feel free to elaborate to your heart's content.
Also, if you want to be a hero to some RG and WS fans, post an image or two over in the rumors thread for Kauyon here.
So basically....I can take a Hunter Cadre, get a Riptide, a Stormsurge and a Hammerhead to shoot at one unit and get +2 BS from the Hunter Contingent and Fire Team rules, or they can add to the combined shooting of the rest of the army and give them +2 BS as well?
Thankfully the +1BS for Fireteam ONLY (heh) applies to Vehicles/MCs, so models not of that type would only get +1BS, not +2.
Ah good stuff, still, it means you can spread it to Stormsurges and the like (they are "Monstrous Creatures with additional rules" per the Gargantuan Creature rules).
Quite frankly since its clearly a rule designed to get people to buy 3 of these expensive models (even hammerheads are pricy, but theyre the "cheapest" of the bunch) im surprised Stormsurges dont have this rule by default.
I would still never field 3 surges just to get +1BS lol. Screw 450USD and ~1300pts for +1BS lol
luke1705 wrote: Got a hold of a copy of the leaked codex from the black library from earlier. Pretty much everything that has been leaked so far is accurate. The only thing that I noticed that was different was that the models that have the fire team special rule will always be +1 BS, regardless of who they shoot at, as long as the squad consists of 3 models. Crisis suits and broadsides do not have this special rule. The ones that do are:
If you guys have any questions, I'm happy to answer them. I didn't play Tau with the previous codex, however, so if you're looking for a comparison, I'll have to actually flip back and forth to figure it out. No problem doing it - just might take a little longer
1) So any changes in the support systems and signature systems?
2) Is the heavy retribution cadre 2 units of stormsurge?
3) Does the ghostkeel gain infiltrate in the optimized stealth cadre?
4) Can you elaborate the benefit of firebase support cadre? Does all 3 unit have to target same unit?
5) Any changes in the seeker missiles and markerlights?
6) Any limitations on what support systems a ghostkeel can take?
Thanks!
Added in numbers for clarity.
1) As far as I can tell, points are the same. They lumped the riptide, stormsurge and ghostkeel on the "pays more for upgrades" category that used to only apply to the riptide (for the stim injector and the shield generator, which the riptide could take now, but it would be 50 points, same as the stormsurge and the ghostkeel.
2) Yep. Take 6 to your heart's content. And then take 6 more if you feel like utilising this formation a second time as one of your ten auxiliary choices
3) No, just what was already rumored - +1 BS all the time with ignores cover and hitting rear facing, regardless of where they actually are. And any stealth unit within 6" of a ghostkeel from the formation also gets that
4) For the firebase support cadre, they get to fire as if they were a single unit (which is sort of weird because the entire hunter contingent gets that benefit in lieu of obsec troops). The support cadre necessitates that all of them fire, and they all get Tank Hunter and Monster Hunter. But when you do this with the normal Hunter Contingent, if at least 3 units combine their fire they get +1 BS. Both say "resolve shots as if they were a single unit" so I think I'd prefer to just have +1 BS, but YMMV.
5) Same, but the stormsurge's destroyer missile will become D if you spend a markerlight on it (1 per missile)
6) They can't take vectored retro thrusters or missile drones (which are apparently now a broadside exclusive)
I asked this earlier but didn't get a response so I feel like it bears repeating.
When you perform the Combined Fire thing, if a Stormsurge adds its shooting to the attack, the wording of the rule suggests that it can choose to shoot just one of its guns at the target and then still fire its other guns at other targets per the GMC rules. I think it's the same story as with Target Locks. Would certainly make the Stormsurge an auto-take for Hunter Contingents!
Caederes wrote: I asked this earlier but didn't get a response so I feel like it bears repeating.
When you perform the Combined Fire thing, if a Stormsurge adds its shooting to the attack, the wording of the rule suggests that it can choose to shoot just one of its guns at the target and then still fire its other guns at other targets per the GMC rules. I think it's the same story as with Target Locks. Would certainly make the Stormsurge an auto-take for Hunter Contingents!
It says the shooting unit must shoot at the same target as the other units. You could read that as "must shoot all guns at the same target" but I feel like it's satisfied by shooting a single gun, so you should be able to shoot at other things. Do you retain the +1 BS buff? I'm not sure. It says "When 3 or more units combine their firepower, the firing models add 1 to their ballistic skill". It sort of implies that it's the models firing AT that target if you ask me, but as per the english language, I think you still get the buff even when you target lock (or stormsurge GMC to a different target)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
MajorWesJanson wrote: Hmm. 9 Crisis suits in a unit sounds like a fun unit to Join Shadowsun to- All Stealth+ Shroud and 3d6JSJ!
Definitely the most fluffy way to run Farsight Enclaves
Markerlights do not buff the unit as a whole, it buffs the ones firing at the marked unit. If any model fires at a different model they dont have the benefits. I dont see the Combined Fire being any different.
Ah my bad lol! Eh, I wouldn't bother with either upgrade on a Ghostkeel anyway. Not enough Ignores Cover in the game (outside of Tau) to justify them, plus it just puts them up into Y'Vahra territory which is where it does not want to be.
luke1705 wrote:
Caederes wrote: I asked this earlier but didn't get a response so I feel like it bears repeating.
When you perform the Combined Fire thing, if a Stormsurge adds its shooting to the attack, the wording of the rule suggests that it can choose to shoot just one of its guns at the target and then still fire its other guns at other targets per the GMC rules. I think it's the same story as with Target Locks. Would certainly make the Stormsurge an auto-take for Hunter Contingents!
It says the shooting unit must shoot at the same target as the other units. You could read that as "must shoot all guns at the same target" but I feel like it's satisfied by shooting a single gun, so you should be able to shoot at other things. Do you retain the +1 BS buff? I'm not sure. It says "When 3 or more units combine their firepower, the firing models add 1 to their ballistic skill". It sort of implies that it's the models firing AT that target if you ask me, but as per the english language, I think you still get the buff even when you target lock (or stormsurge GMC to a different target)
That was my interpretation as well. It's amazing how good the Stormsurge is with the full codex leak.
Markerlights do not buff the unit as a whole, it buffs the ones firing at the marked unit. If any model fires at a different model they dont have the benefits. I dont see the Combined Fire being any different.
The markerlight section is much more clear in how that works. If you ask me, I think they intended for it to be the same, but there will be a section in YMDC about how this works. You heard it here first on channel 7 news.
The wording for the Ballistic Skill bonus from combined firing isn't the same as Markerlights. Markerlights specify you get it when firing at that unit, the combined firing just says "when 3 or more units combine their firepower, the firing models add 1 to their Ballistic Skill". This would make the Stormsurge have +1 Ballsitic Skill when firing at multiple targets simultaneously!
Ah my bad lol! Eh, I wouldn't bother with either upgrade on a Ghostkeel anyway. Not enough Ignores Cover in the game (outside of Tau) to justify them, plus it just puts them up into Y'Vahra territory which is where it does not want to be.
luke1705 wrote:
Caederes wrote: I asked this earlier but didn't get a response so I feel like it bears repeating.
When you perform the Combined Fire thing, if a Stormsurge adds its shooting to the attack, the wording of the rule suggests that it can choose to shoot just one of its guns at the target and then still fire its other guns at other targets per the GMC rules. I think it's the same story as with Target Locks. Would certainly make the Stormsurge an auto-take for Hunter Contingents!
It says the shooting unit must shoot at the same target as the other units. You could read that as "must shoot all guns at the same target" but I feel like it's satisfied by shooting a single gun, so you should be able to shoot at other things. Do you retain the +1 BS buff? I'm not sure. It says "When 3 or more units combine their firepower, the firing models add 1 to their ballistic skill". It sort of implies that it's the models firing AT that target if you ask me, but as per the english language, I think you still get the buff even when you target lock (or stormsurge GMC to a different target)
That was my interpretation as well. It's amazing how good the Stormsurge is with the full codex leak.
No arguments here, but how many will I field? Zero. How many Riptides will I field? Zero (ok maybe one). Somehow, it'll still be a cheesy army list
The wording for the Ballistic Skill bonus from combined firing isn't the same as Markerlights. Markerlights specify you get it when firing at that unit, the combined firing just says "when 3 or more units combine their firepower, the firing models add 1 to their Ballistic Skill". This would make the Stormsurge have +1 Ballsitic Skill when firing at multiple targets simultaneously!
But you see, I don't think that same logic would work for target locked models. THEY didn't fire at the unit. Their friends did.
Oh god, Heavy Burst Cannon Riptides will be BS5, twin-linked, ignore cover, and possibly Tank Hunter with this. They will be not only viable, but dangerous.
We're getting to see how big a Tau "forward" base is from an included map. It's not even a main base and it could rival a hive city in size but not height.
There are implications that it was set up in a matter of weeks maybe a month or two at most or less given the time frame of events. It's sufficient to say Tau Industrial capacity is simply on a magnitude that the Imperium can't consider. If they want to have any hope of defeating us they had best start learning about their enemy before its too late. Or that enemy of tomorrow will be the enemy of today now.
The Imperium has dealt with enemies more dangerous and more powerful than the Tau. The chapter names of the Prefectia campaign seem to imply that the Tau have won the battle for Prefectia, but they have awoken the sleeping giant.
After all, taking some back water Planets like Agrellan is one thing, but a Fortress World? Now you have the Imperiums attention. Goodbye!
I mean, if a few companies of Raven guard, a company of white scars, and a contingent from House Terryn threaten the Taus plans, imagine what a real counter attack would do?
Crazyterran wrote: The Imperium has dealt with enemies more dangerous and more powerful than the Tau. The chapter names of the Prefectia campaign seem to imply that the Tau have won the battle for Prefectia, but they have awoken the sleeping giant.
After all, taking some back water Planets like Agrellan is one thing, but a Fortress World? Now you have the Imperiums attention. Goodbye!
I mean, if a few companies of Raven guard, a company of white scars, and a contingent from House Terryn threaten the Taus plans, imagine what a real counter attack would do?
Which is why Commander Farsight is getting a book at some point. Also we don't know how the FW book with Tau vs Admech will go down either.
Crazyterran wrote: The Imperium has dealt with enemies more dangerous and more powerful than the Tau. The chapter names of the Prefectia campaign seem to imply that the Tau have won the battle for Prefectia, but they have awoken the sleeping giant.
After all, taking some back water Planets like Agrellan is one thing, but a Fortress World? Now you have the Imperiums attention. Goodbye!
I mean, if a few companies of Raven guard, a company of white scars, and a contingent from House Terryn threaten the Taus plans, imagine what a real counter attack would do?
Maybe that's just what they want? The IoM seems to be a rather large force, and one that a lot of Xenos don't like, for good reason at that. So attracting the attention of the IoM could be a good way to basically create a greater evil that all the people within the Tau Empire have to fight against, and one that some of the smaller worlds would see as a good cause to join the Tau Empire in order to fight against.
In all reality, the IoM is too vast to really expand a lot of resources fighting against the Tau Empire, which isn't generally violent if beaten back. So I'm sure they're well aware that even if they lose and get pushed back, they can recover over time, but if they can beat back the IoM, at least in what seems like a threatening force, they gain a lot more from it. They simply can't lose in the greater scheme of things when you think about it.
Raven Guard Chapter Master got wrecked by Shadowsun badly. Also the Obsidian Knight got destroyed by Stormsurges.
The Tau were at... mmm try hard level... I dunno 4/10 on the oh gak scale of how hard of a fight for this world was. So I think the Imperium is in for some trouble. I would say this fight was easier for them to win than the first crusade sent to fight them which also failed I might add. That fight Tau were in like oh gak 9.5/10 try hard scale. Every time new Tau technology enters the fray the Imperium is turned back swiftly and more swiftly and with more devastating consequences as time goes by.
In the Kayon book it mentions there is a steady stream of new technologies always coming to the front lines.
Edit
I know I shouldn't copy and paste text, but just this one little snippet.
Spoiler:
The news soon reached a chain of star systems coreward of the Gulf, long abandoned by the Tau Empire. There, a legendary leader gathered his people and made ready for a war that would change the history of the Tau forever
Edit
The rules for the Tidewall stuff is in Kauyon under Tau Empire. This lends credence to it possibly being Tau only.
Edit2
There are rules to field the individual pieces of the Tidewall. So you can take all the pieces as separate things if you so desire and move them around. Muahaaha!
Gamgee wrote: I know I shouldn't copy and paste text, but just this one little snippet.
Spoiler:
The news soon reached a chain of star systems coreward of the Gulf, long abandoned by the Tau Empire. There, a legendary leader gathered his people and made ready for a war that would change the history of the Tau forever
I'm calling it now. He is going to get a campaign book and units and stuff totally unique to him.
Also its funny but I predicted an inevitable Tau civil war. Though not everyone I told bought my story. I hope this isn't so. This is exactly the kind of disunity the Imperium could capitalize on. I really hope he is going to strike out at the Imperium, but I got my doubts.
Or perhaps he learns to use warp travel? Man the Imperium would be in some serious trouble if he gains that capability.
Edit
A poster on ATT has pictures of the battle strategy and Shadowsun pulled a Hannibal and used the exact same deployment (of Tidewalls) to encircle and destroy the White Scars as the Battle of Cannae. Hahah. In honour of both our victory, Shadowsun's, and for the Hannibal reference.
Edit2
I have a theory. It mentions the Tau studied warp technology from a fleet they destroyed just as it warped in. They studied the effects and were going to send it to the top minds in the Empire for study but the crew of this vessel never returned anywhere and the Imperial forces didn't know about it and certainly didn't seem to stop it. I think we know what will change the course of this war. That ship was either working for Farsight or defecting to him with more definitive knowledge of the warp and he is going to use that to his advantage. Can you imagine a Tau Empire either one classic or the possible neo that has warp drive technology? I think the Imperium would quickly find the Tau expanding to every possible world and space.
That's Zech's in the first episode, long before he gets his custom mech. He was good enough to beat the main hero in a bassic suit. When in a custom model he is all but unstoppable.
When you say Shadowsun "wrecks" a certain Raven Guard character......oh my.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Gamgee wrote: The plot thickens. A Grey Knight has foreseen that Farsight will defeat the crusade that is coming, but it might damn is soul to do it.
:(
Hmm...the "Crusade that is coming" implies the one the Imperium will launch, not the current Tau invasion. Sounds like he might fight Shadowsun's forces, they get attacked by the Imperium and then they join forces? Or maybe it will be like a Prince Yriel situation?
Gamgee wrote: The plot thickens. A Grey Knight has foreseen that Farsight will defeat the crusade that is coming, but it might damn is soul to do it.
:(
Where did you read this?
The book mentions that the Imperium has finally decided the Tau are a threat worth swatting, and are sending vast amounts of troops. Before, the only people really countering the Tau third sphere was a few companies of the Raven Guard, a few companies of the White Scars, elements of six other unnamed Chapters, local Imperial Guard Regiments, and House Terryn.
Now battle conclaves of the Sisters of Battle, Knight Houses, Titan Legions, entire Marine Chapters and tons of Guardsmen and members of the Adeptus Mechanicus are enroute to the Region, and it's not like they don't have all of that nearby - the Imperium has been building up the Eastern Fringe something fierce because of the Tyranids.
And the Tau think killing the Chapter Master of the Raven Guard dealt a death blow to the Imperial forces. All it did was make them angry. The Zeist Campaign was a single chapter strength worth of marines, and that would've pushed deep into Tau space if there hadn't been a hive fleet on the way.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the Tau are weak, or wouldn't put up a bloody fight, but with the forces the Imperial's are looking at throwing at the Tau, the Empire is at the least going to get pruned back severely territory wise.
And in all honesty, I haven't seen as much plot armour on the Tau and Shadowsun in particular in pretty much other parts of 40k. At this point, the only two people who are capable of killing her are Marneus Calgar or Draigo.
(and seriously, that's been two (there if you count Taros) campaign books where the Imperial's lose to the Tau, book three (four) better be the Imperial's turn.)
Gamgee wrote: The plot thickens. A Grey Knight has foreseen that Farsight will defeat the crusade that is coming, but it might damn is soul to do it.
:(
Where did you read this?
The book mentions that the Imperium has finally decided the Tau are a threat worth swatting, and are sending vast amounts of troops. Before, the only people really countering the Tau third sphere was a few companies of the Raven Guard, a few companies of the White Scars, elements of six other unnamed Chapters, local Imperial Guard Regiments, and House Terryn.
Now battle conclaves of the Sisters of Battle, Knight Houses, Titan Legions, entire Marine Chapters and tons of Guardsmen and members of the Adeptus Mechanicus are enroute to the Region, and it's not like they don't have all of that nearby - the Imperium has been building up the Eastern Fringe something fierce because of the Tyranids.
And the Tau think killing the Chapter Master of the Raven Guard dealt a death blow to the Imperial forces. All it did was make them angry. The Zeist Campaign was a single chapter strength worth of marines, and that would've pushed deep into Tau space if there hadn't been a hive fleet on the way.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the Tau are weak, or wouldn't put up a bloody fight, but with the forces the Imperial's are looking at throwing at the Tau, the Empire is at the least going to get pruned back severely territory wise.
And in all honesty, I haven't seen as much plot armour on the Tau and Shadowsun in particular in pretty much other parts of 40k. At this point, the only two people who are capable of killing her are Marneus Calgar or Draigo.
(and seriously, that's been two (there if you count Taros) campaign books where the Imperial's lose to the Tau, book three (four) better be the Imperial's turn.)
Shadowsun's tactic has always been baiting a trap and cutting down the fools who fall into it. While I doubt the Tau are aware of the scale of the forces inbound, this feels like a trap. Also, if the Stormsurge is hitting production in high enough quantity, the Imperium may need to field proper Titans to remove them as Knight Titans are at serious risk against a well supported Stormsurge unit.
Ok I was trying to avoid posting open spoilers from Kauyon but you guys seem to have jumped the shark Does Shadowsun personally kill the Raven Guard Chapter Master? If so, how? Does she just blast him?
I get the sense that Shadowsun would be setting a trap given that she embodies the Kauyon method of warfare. However....how Farsight figures into the inevitable Mont'ka book will be interesting. I take that Grey Knight prophecy to imply Farsight will stop the Imperial Crusade before they obliterate the Tau.
The prophesy I refer to is in the new Tau anthology and its called Fire and Ice. It is said he is prophesized to defeat the Imperium but potentially at the cost of some warp insanity or worse.
There is apparently a Grey Knight trying to help him master his fate and not fall to chaos. The new stories line up perfectly with events in this book according to the people who read them.
Also its obvious he will get his own supplement. Looks likely the Imperiums crusade will be defeated.
Yeah that was what I thought too, Farsight will save the Tau from being obliterated as they could have been in the retcon version of the Damocles Crusade (the original one). However, the energies of the Dawn Blade - remember, his retrieval of it caused a Daemonic Incursion - will consume his soul and turn him to Chaos.
Honestly.....if GW want to have a fun/cathartic story on their hands, they can follow the Prince Yriel story-line which appears to be what they are doing. Farsight "rebels"/leaves as he has done, he returns at the time of dire need, he joins forces with Shadowsun who despises him but they put their differences aside "for the Greater Good", he ends up saving the day in heroic fashion then is possessed by the Chaos Gods, with Shadowsun forced to grudgingly kill her former compatriot after gaining true respect for him. This then leads her to start questioning the motives of the Ethereal Caste and Aun'va specifically....setting up for a repeat of the story. Classic GW fashion.
So does Shadowsun just straight up murder the Raven Guard Chapter Master? Also it's going to be awesome to see Farsight and I'm assuming Shadowsun fight together given that's what the Grey Knight prophecy alludes to happening.
Defeated, in the end, without a doubt, but anything short of the Tau being completely wiped out would be a defeat. And I don't think the Tau are going to get squatted anytime soon.
I think the real question is 'at what cost'. If the Tau lose the whole third sphere in the onslaught...
Though I can't help but wonder if Farsight will perform the montka on all of his enemies. I could see him taking the imperial invasion as an opportunity to take down the Ethereals and unite the Tau without their influence into something more.
Though Farsight having Imperial backers is interesting... I wonder if he would lead the Tau away from their warmongering ways? At least towards the Imperium...
Though who knows when we see a Farsight book; the next launch is either more Age of Sogmar or Horus Heresy, no?
Wow so many goodies for my Tau Army. I have to admit that, overall, this is a really welcome addition to the Tau. Just wish Shadowsun would get more badass stats to reflect how utterly badass she's been in the Fluff of late. She has to be one of the, if not the, most hard-core female doing anything in the setting right now. I think her only competition is coming from the Eldar Spiritseer in Iyanden and Saint Celestine.
Just something I'd like to add about the complaints concerning the Tau having another campaign victory; firstly without a shadow of a doubt it can't be disputed that narratively GW is definitely showing strong support to the Tau these days and giving them a good ride; Agrellan followed by this is definitely nice, but at the same time focusing in on it isn't really that fair. I mean the Imperium won the Ichar Campaign, Macragge, Piscina, 2nd War for Armageddon, Sanctus Reach and Damnos. In fact the only non-FW campaign supplement I think the Imperium has ever lost is...well Agrellan and now this. I'll admit noticeably both of those instances are Tau, like I said it can't be argued the Tau are experiencing some real love from GW, but at the same time that's only two defeats out of a wealth of Campaign Supplements where the Imperium tends to win any major engagement which gets written about.
Personally it'd would have been nice to see another Xenos, or Chaos, have a Campaign Supplement in which they win, not just the Tau, but at the same time if allowing the Tau to win a whole 2 Campaign Supplements against the Imperium is hopefully a precursor to giving all the factions better narrative track records I won't complain. I'd love for Ghazzy to finally actually achieve a meaningful victory beyond Golgotha and stop constantly falling on his butt the moment anything of importance happens.
The sum of it; the Tau are getting a lot of loving now, probably right now GW's 2nd favourite behind the Imperium (strictly in the Fluff) but it is important to keep perspective in mind, what the Tau have had written about them in the past two books still can't be compared to the number of campaign supplements the Imperium has won. Every faction has its fans and we'd all like our faction to get as much loving in the fluff as the others do. So please let this be a trend and let the Orks, Necron, Chaos Space Marines or heck please my Sisters of Battle
Also, on the Farsight thing;
Spoiler:
A Grey Knight? Huh, when I read it because of how noncommittal he was to the question 'are you a Grey Knight' and his referring to Chaos as the 'Primordial Annihilator' and having human agents in the Inquisition and the whole 'I have no Chapter, I am Legion' line I assumed he was meant to be an Alpha Legion guy. Maybe I missed something, does he confirm he's a Grey Knight explicitly? Since I just thought it was a continuation of the Alpha Legion's secret anti-Chaos agenda and the fact that they don't mind working with anyone to achieve it.
Hmm well it looks like the Campaign does have some exclusive (for now) content.
The Tau codex doesn't have the rules for the new Tau fortifications while the Campaign does. Kauyon has the rules for them individually, as well as 2 networks (not the big network from the boxset, though).
For 1 meltabomb more than a normal Landraider you can get a network of 3 Gunrigs (the Fortifications with the Twin-linked railcannons). They gain a special rule that allows one model to fire all 3 railcannons at the same target using its BS. If this is done then the shots gain +1 S if using Submunition Rounds or Armourbane if using the solid shot.
The other network has a variable cost. You take 4 Shieldwalls and either a Gunrig or Droneport. The Gunrig/Droneport is set up in the middle of the Shieldlines. Models on the Network are Stubborn and models on the Shieldlines can use the Railcannon/activate the Drones remotely.
A Gunrig is 85 points and both the Droneport and Shieldline are 60pts.
Matt.Kingsley wrote: Hmm well it looks like the Campaign does have some exclusive (for now) content.
The Tau codex doesn't have the rules for the new Tau fortifications while the Campaign does. Kauyon has the rules for them individually, as well as 2 networks (not the big network from the boxset, though).
For 1 meltabomb more than a normal Landraider you can get a network of 3 Gunrigs (the Fortifications with the Twin-linked railcannons). They gain a special rule that allows one model to fire all 3 railcannons at the same target using its BS. If this is done then the shots gain +1 S if using Submunition Rounds or Armourbane if using the solid shot.
The other network has a variable cost. You take 4 Shieldwalls and either a Gunrig or Droneport. The Gunrig/Droneport is set up in the middle of the Shieldlines. Models on the Network are Stubborn and models on the Shieldlines can use the Railcannon/activate the Drones remotely.
A Gunrig is 85 points and both the Droneport and Shieldline are 60pts.
Okay, but what does the blank disk from the fortification set do?
Also: I understand it's typically poorly written, but now that I've seen the actual rules, I'm amused people are reading a rule that says "Share Markerlights and get +1 BS if three or more units fire" and immediately read it as "Buffmander your entire gunline at once!"
I mean, don't get me wrong, it's a plain as day interpretation, but the fact that people are so casually fishing for that kind of thing instead of playing it straighforward is very telling about the overall state of the meta.
According to GW the rules for the Tau fortifications will be in the actual kits as well. Also according to the GW website these kits (the Tidewall Rampart parts sold individually) will be available on October 31, which means available for preorder on that date. The White Dwarf teaser in yesterdays issue also hints Tidewall fortifications in the next issue.
Matt.Kingsley wrote: Hmm well it looks like the Campaign does have some exclusive (for now) content.
The Tau codex doesn't have the rules for the new Tau fortifications while the Campaign does. Kauyon has the rules for them individually, as well as 2 networks (not the big network from the boxset, though).
For 1 meltabomb more than a normal Landraider you can get a network of 3 Gunrigs (the Fortifications with the Twin-linked railcannons). They gain a special rule that allows one model to fire all 3 railcannons at the same target using its BS. If this is done then the shots gain +1 S if using Submunition Rounds or Armourbane if using the solid shot.
The other network has a variable cost. You take 4 Shieldwalls and either a Gunrig or Droneport. The Gunrig/Droneport is set up in the middle of the Shieldlines. Models on the Network are Stubborn and models on the Shieldlines can use the Railcannon/activate the Drones remotely.
A Gunrig is 85 points and both the Droneport and Shieldline are 60pts.
Okay, but what does the blank disk from the fortification set do?
Also: I understand it's typically poorly written, but now that I've seen the actual rules, I'm amused people are reading a rule that says "Share Markerlights and get +1 BS if three or more units fire" and immediately read it as "Buffmander your entire gunline at once!"
I mean, don't get me wrong, it's a plain as day interpretation, but the fact that people are so casually fishing for that kind of thing instead of playing it straighforward is very telling about the overall state of the meta.
The blank disk is just a part of the Shieldwall, along with the energy wall (at least, I *think* that's it. It's pictured with the shieldwall).
And tbf it says 'including markerlights' (or markerlights included or something to that effect; can't quite remember) i.e. markerlights are one of the effects that can be shared.
Kauyon has the Gunfort fortification formation - 3 gunrigs. They can fire together instead of separated. If they do so, the Submunitions become S7 and the Solid Shots becomes Armourbane. But all you need is 1 model controlling 1 gunrig fire (thye need to attack the same unit).
Now, if you do that with Darkstrider... He can insta-kill a carnifex/tyrannofex unit, as they'll be T5 against 3 BS5 S10 shots (TL).
I'm wondering if Farsight will get a new kit similar to the commander. Although seeing as Shadowsun still has her finecast model I'm doubtful (but still clinging to hope)
Vector Strike wrote: Now, if you do that with Darkstrider... He can insta-kill a carnifex/tyrannofex unit, as they'll be T5 against 3 BS5 S10 shots (TL).
Kauyon has the Gunfort fortification formation - 3 gunrigs. They can fire together instead of separated. If they do so, the Submunitions become S7 and the Solid Shots becomes Armourbane. But all you need is 1 model controlling 1 gunrig fire (thye need to attack the same unit).
Now, if you do that with Darkstrider... He can insta-kill a carnifex/tyrannofex unit, as they'll be T5 against 3 BS5 S10 shots (TL).
They really need to fix that nonsense of "Look, I'm manning a fortification! ALL MY SPECIAL RULES APPLY LOLOLOL!".
Kauyon has the Gunfort fortification formation - 3 gunrigs. They can fire together instead of separated. If they do so, the Submunitions become S7 and the Solid Shots becomes Armourbane. But all you need is 1 model controlling 1 gunrig fire (thye need to attack the same unit).
Now, if you do that with Darkstrider... He can insta-kill a carnifex/tyrannofex unit, as they'll be T5 against 3 BS5 S10 shots (TL).
They really need to fix that nonsense of "Look, I'm manning a fortification! ALL MY SPECIAL RULES APPLY LOLOLOL!".
But guys, his eyepiece has a STRUCTURAL ANALYSER in it! It's structural! And it analyses!
Crazyterran wrote: Obviously, I need to deep strike something close enough to the gun rig to be able to fire it against the tau who took it. For the Luls.
I'm pretty sure you can't. I think it says a model from the tau empire faction has to fire it.
Kauyon has the Gunfort fortification formation - 3 gunrigs. They can fire together instead of separated. If they do so, the Submunitions become S7 and the Solid Shots becomes Armourbane. But all you need is 1 model controlling 1 gunrig fire (thye need to attack the same unit).
Now, if you do that with Darkstrider... He can insta-kill a carnifex/tyrannofex unit, as they'll be T5 against 3 BS5 S10 shots (TL).
They really need to fix that nonsense of "Look, I'm manning a fortification! ALL MY SPECIAL RULES APPLY LOLOLOL!".
But guys, his eyepiece has a STRUCTURAL ANALYSER in it! It's structural! And it analyses!
Also all the tidewall stuff is in kauyon book in their section. So I doubt that it can be taken by anyone else.
Vector Strike wrote: 1-9 Crisis is awesome. But letting them grab CIB/AFB is even better
Neither is really that good though, I mean they'r not bad, but we just already have Missile Sides and the new Ion Rake. Which means the Plasma Rifle is that much more unique on the Crisis Suits.
Yet another reason I'd like to see regular Rail Rifle options on the Crisis Suits, even if they're limited.
Ghostkeel starts at 130p. For a bit more, you can have 3 crisis with 2 CIBs each. They'll pump 18 S7 shots while for a bit less the Ghostkeel will do only 6.
You use CIB Crisis with Deep Strike. they're not worth it starting the game in the table. Broadsides aren't mobile. Or just use both and have even more S7.
Same with AFP. They're better than flamers in pratically any scenario, bar overwatch.
Crisis in Retaliation are simply murder.
Broadsides aren't mobile UNLESS YOU DEEPSTRIKE THEM!
And don't forget that those deep striked broadsides also gain Relentless for the whole game. No Snap Shots for your Railguns or HYMP!
The thing I'm currently leaning towards is Farsight Enclaves CAD of Farsight and Crisis Suits along with an Infiltration Cadre (3 Pathfinders, 2 Stealth and a Pirhana) and Armoured Interdiction Cadre (3 Hammerheads and a Skyray).
The whole Farsight CAD goes in reserve, Stealth Teams with Homing Beacons infiltrate into cover near the enemy and Pathfinder Teams scout into a good spot in cover, Pirhana sits in the open. The Tanks keep out of sight/in cover and shoot at what they can, making use of the 6" bubble rule to provide re-rolls to hit (and so also would allow re-rolls of gets hot on overcharged Ion blasts, which I think is pretty brutal).
Opponents turn they vaporise the Pirhana, triggering the special rule which allows all units in reserve to arrive on the next turn, no roll required. Turn 2 the Entire CAD drops in, Farsight able to land anywhere, 6" bubbles of pinpoint DS around the stealth shas'vres. Then open up on the enemy with everything.
Vineheart01 wrote: Stupid question but you can take the mini formations on their own right? theyre not forced to be a part of the big formation?
You can take any of the formations in the book without taking them as part of the hunter contingent. Taking them as the Hunter Contingent just nets you some extra special rules which apply to all the formations contained within it.
Well, as I fully suspected, Kauyon lacks minor erratta for existing units such as ones that can now take larger numbers of models, or get a bonus for taking a bunch of models.
changemod wrote: Well, as I fully suspected, Kauyon lacks minor erratta for existing units such as ones that can now take larger numbers of models, or get a bonus for taking a bunch of models.
Conversely, the codex has no fortification rules.
So, in order to get all the new rules for the Tau you need to spend £75 on books. Until the next book (presumably Mont'ka) comes out and that price increases. Yay GW.
I knew it was too good to be true that they actually gave us a break with these ridiculously expensive pieces of paper.
I was planning on getting the campaign but since i normally dont care for that stuff and theres discrepancies between it and the codex, like i expected, nevermind.
Vineheart01 wrote: I knew it was too good to be true that they actually gave us a break with these ridiculously expensive pieces of paper.
I was planning on getting the campaign but since i normally dont care for that stuff and theres discrepancies between it and the codex, like i expected, nevermind.
changemod wrote: Well, as I fully suspected, Kauyon lacks minor erratta for existing units such as ones that can now take larger numbers of models, or get a bonus for taking a bunch of models.
Conversely, the codex has no fortification rules.
So, in order to get all the new rules for the Tau you need to spend £75 on books. Until the next book comes out and that price increases. Yay GW.
Well, the unit rules can be found from White Dwarf too. Admittably not all in same issue, that would make too much sense, but buying 2 or 3 £2.40 magazines probably won't break anyone's bank.
So in my opinion this is actually step up from usual GW codex change, if not for a looming fact that Tau, which actually NEEDED a rewrite was wrong book to try this out. I do hope that next Space Marines codex is done same way.
changemod wrote: Well, as I fully suspected, Kauyon lacks minor erratta for existing units such as ones that can now take larger numbers of models, or get a bonus for taking a bunch of models.
Conversely, the codex has no fortification rules.
So, in order to get all the new rules for the Tau you need to spend £75 on books. Until the next book comes out and that price increases. Yay GW.
Well, the unit rules can be found from White Dwarf too. Admittably not all in same issue, that would make too much sense, but buying 2 or 3 £2.40 magazines probably won't break anyone's bank.
So in my opinion this is actually step up from usual GW codex change, if not for a looming fact that Tau, which actually NEEDED a rewrite was wrong book to try this out. I do hope that next Space Marines codex is done same way.
Except do those WDs include the change to make Crisis teams available in units of 1 to 9, Riptides in units of 1 to 3 etc.?
Because apparently the Kauyon book doesn't. And does anybody actually believe that GW are going to release an FAQ?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
maceria wrote: Hmmm, AFP and CIB only have one cost listed. No twin link?
A Town Called Malus wrote: Except do those WDs include the change to make Crisis teams available in units of 1 to 9, Riptides in units of 1 to 3 etc.?
Because apparently the Kauyon book doesn't. And does anybody actually believe that GW are going to release an FAQ?
The Kauyon book includes amendments to those units, and as far as I can see, it deals with everything with regards to the old book. It even specifically refers to the old book and how to use the two (2012 Tau Empire + Kauyon) together.
Vineheart01 wrote: I knew it was too good to be true that they actually gave us a break with these ridiculously expensive pieces of paper.
I was planning on getting the campaign but since i normally dont care for that stuff and theres discrepancies between it and the codex, like i expected, nevermind.
Who said there are discrepancies?
I think a lot of it depends on how steadfast you are on the rules. If you play like me, I hardly ever look at the rulebook during play, and if my opponent tells me something is some way that I can't recall, I'm happy with it. I mean, whatever, I'm there to play the game.
On the other hand, if rules precision is really important to you, having page numbers that line up, having every preposition and adverb be unchanged, etc... you're PROBABLY better off with the codex. Plus, the codex is cheaper anyways, and saves you from having 2 heavy books to lug around.
If they really wanted to do people a favor, they should have printed a $20 White Dwarf size booklet (softcover) that amends Codex: Tau Empire 2013. But anyways, there's some choice here, and that's better than no choice, so props there, seeing as they decided not to change a lot of stuff.
Vineheart01 wrote: I knew it was too good to be true that they actually gave us a break with these ridiculously expensive pieces of paper.
I was planning on getting the campaign but since i normally dont care for that stuff and theres discrepancies between it and the codex, like i expected, nevermind.
Who said there are discrepancies?
I think a lot of it depends on how steadfast you are on the rules. If you play like me, I hardly ever look at the rulebook during play, and if my opponent tells me something is some way that I can't recall, I'm happy with it. I mean, whatever, I'm there to play the game.
On the other hand, if rules precision is really important to you, having page numbers that line up, having every preposition and adverb be unchanged, etc... you're PROBABLY better off with the codex. Plus, the codex is cheaper anyways, and saves you from having 2 heavy books to lug around.
If they really wanted to do people a favor, they should have printed a $20 White Dwarf size booklet (softcover) that amends Codex: Tau Empire 2013. But anyways, there's some choice here, and that's better than no choice, so props there, seeing as they decided not to change a lot of stuff.
Doesn't answer the question. What source claims that the Kauyon-book + 2012 Codex does not, as advertised, provide the complete and precisely identical information concerning things like the Crisis Teams?
Price and preferences aside. People like Vineheart01 specifically said they'd prefer the campaign-book, but wouldn't buy on the basis of that information.
"Probably" is something very different to the definite mentioned on the page above. A confirmation of such a "probably" would be a huge thing, no?
Supreme Loyalty: Whilst Aun'Va is alive, all friendly units from Codex: Tau Empire on the battlefield re-roll all failed Fear, Morale Pinning and Regroup tests.
Page 61
Codex: Tau Empire 2015 reads under Aun'Va:
Supreme Loyalty: Whilst Aun'Va is alive, all friendly units with the Tau Empire Faction re-roll all failed Fear, Morale Pinning and Regroup tests.
Page 80
Do you see what I mean? That's a HUGE difference... if you use Farsight Enclaves, or one of the Burning Dawn units. Is there a datasheet for Aun'Va in Kauyon? I doubt it.
So, even though I'm the furthest thing from a rules lawyer, I will elect to buy Codex: Tau Empire 2015, in order to have datasheets that have the most accurate, most current version of the rules. Even if GW, and probably most reasonable players, don't think that the two Aun'Va entries are different, and wouldn't go and spend money for such a small change, they ARE subtly and significantly different.
One could call me a rules lawyer because i know pretty much all the rules very well, but like ive said in the past many times i play logically not raw. Ive ruled many things against myself because it makes sense and reminded my opponents of options they may not think about. Clear rules = more fun.
Also side note, Tau 2015 proves without a doubt they dont intend people to play competitively. Theres so many rule loopholes and i'd be surprised if they fix them all. Such as the Stormsurge getting Ethereal pulse weapon bonuses, which i will never use because that is just...dumb lol
One could call me a rules lawyer because i know pretty much all the rules very well, but like ive said in the past many times i play logically not raw. Ive ruled many things against myself because it makes sense and reminded my opponents of options they may not think about. Clear rules = more fun.
Also side note, Tau 2015 proves without a doubt they dont intend people to play competitively. Theres so many rule loopholes and i'd be surprised if they fix them all. Such as the Stormsurge getting Ethereal pulse weapon bonuses, which i will never use because that is just...dumb lol
It specifically says in the codex that the etherals ability does not effect stormsurge (amongst other things)
So can someone confirm whether the Kauyon book has errata for existing units as well as the rules for new units? I only ordered the Kauyon book and would like to know if I need to email and add the codex to my order.
ImAGeek wrote: So can someone confirm whether the Kauyon book has errata for existing units as well as the rules for new units? I only ordered the Kauyon book and would like to know if I need to email and add the codex to my order.
Depends on what you mean by errata.
It specifically states you can use the 2012 codex, and says which units to change (Riptides becoming 1-3 with the ability to take bonding knives, etc) and that the new units in the Kauyon book can be taken alongside the codex units. There's half a page (in addition to the datasheets and detachment) explaining how to use the 2012 codex going forward.
ImAGeek wrote: So can someone confirm whether the Kauyon book has errata for existing units as well as the rules for new units? I only ordered the Kauyon book and would like to know if I need to email and add the codex to my order.
The codex leaks are already out (like, every meaningful page), so just compare the new dataslates side-by-side with the old codex, and you'll see for yourself. Most of it is really similar, but some of it is not *identical*. Like I said above, the difference between a special ability working with Codex: Tau Empire and with any model of the Tau faction is pretty significant. There are scattered little differences that I don't think most play groups would make an issue of, but most purists would get all excited about.
Personally, I'm going to buy the 2015 codex and skip the campaign book, as someone else in our group that plays Tau will buy it for sure, and we don't need multiple copies of it. Then I can stuff the 6e codex on the shelf that has all my old rulebooks, and my "current" library of rulebooks for 40k doesn't get any bigger.
One could call me a rules lawyer because i know pretty much all the rules very well, but like ive said in the past many times i play logically not raw. Ive ruled many things against myself because it makes sense and reminded my opponents of options they may not think about. Clear rules = more fun.
Also side note, Tau 2015 proves without a doubt they dont intend people to play competitively. Theres so many rule loopholes and i'd be surprised if they fix them all. Such as the Stormsurge getting Ethereal pulse weapon bonuses, which i will never use because that is just...dumb lol
It specifically says in the codex that the etherals ability does not effect stormsurge (amongst other things)
But if you were using the 6th ed Codex plus the Kau'yon book, is that errata in there?
Talys wrote: Most of it is really similar, but some of it is not *identical*. Like I said above, the difference between a special ability working with Codex: Tau Empire and with any model of the Tau faction is pretty significant.
I haven't found anything that is not identical. The point above is addressed in Kauyon. Is there another example of a difference? There don't seem to be any.
Talys wrote: Most of it is really similar, but some of it is not *identical*. Like I said above, the difference between a special ability working with Codex: Tau Empire and with any model of the Tau faction is pretty significant.
I haven't found anything that is not identical. The point above is addressed in Kauyon. Is there another example of a difference? There don't seem to be any.
I haven't seen the Kauyon version of the rules, sorry. Even so, I'm not sure I'll go to the trouble of checking it word for word, as I don't really play Tau. I will leave that honor to someone else who is more invested in the faction
Talys wrote: Most of it is really similar, but some of it is not *identical*. Like I said above, the difference between a special ability working with Codex: Tau Empire and with any model of the Tau faction is pretty significant.
I haven't found anything that is not identical. The point above is addressed in Kauyon. Is there another example of a difference? There don't seem to be any.
I haven't seen the Kauyon version of the rules, sorry. Even so, I'm not sure I'll go to the trouble of checking it word for word, as I don't really play Tau. I will leave that honor to someone else who is more invested in the faction
Fair enough. But then the default assumption shouldn't be that there are differences, unless GW declares there are or someone provides a scan/picture/some evidence that this is the case.
Hating on discrepancies, while simultaneously admitting to not care enough to actually check if they exist, smells of trolling.
I did a quick glance through both of them last night and I couldn't see any discrepencies, except that I couldn't actually find the Fire Team rule in Kauyon though it mentions it in the Errata, saying it's on the next page, but the next page discussed what everything on the dataslates meant. Either the epub is missing a page or someone goofed.
EDIT: Actually scratch that, it's there. I missed it the first time as it isn't that noticeable. It IS on the next page, just down the bottom in a small black box.
The Tau datasheets included in full in Kauyon are as follows; - Commander - Ethereal - Strike Team - Breacher Team - Crisis Suits - Crisis Bodyguard - Ghostkeel - Stormsurge - All the Formations that are in the codex - The new Fortifications (individually) and 2 new Networks.
Wonderwolf wrote: Fair enough. But then the default assumption shouldn't be that there are differences, unless GW declares there are or someone provides a scan/picture/some evidence that this is the case.
Hating on discrepancies, while simultaneously admitting to not care enough to actually check if they exist, smells of trolling.
Well, look, I spent 5 minutes flipping through the leaks, and I saw two differences -- Aun'Va special rule, and Ethereal having the hover drone option. I'm not saying it's NOT in Kauyon (like I said, I haven't seen the Kauyon leaks); I'm saying I'm not going to buy Kauyon, because going through each page to look for differences isn't worth the effort. I'd rather just buy the $50 2015 codex, have the current version, and be done with it.
I wasn't even LOOKING for discrepancies. I just noticed those two hitting the next button. I'm sure there are other minor text differences, and in fairness, maybe they are in Kauyon's "how to use 2013 codex" page.
Keep in mind that I've repeatedly said that a plurality of players probably won't care.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Again, just randomly looking at datasheets, I noticed that Kroot Carnivores do not list Kroot Armour anymore.
Now, granted, that doesn't matter because the Save column says 6+ (which is what Kroot Armour confers), so it's not like the rules work out differently, but the text IS different.
In fact, in the Battlesuits and Armour section, the entire entry for Kroot Armour has been removed. You could say, "well, this is because Kroot Armour only gives a 6+ save an no extra bonuses". Fair enough... but Recon Armour only confers 5+ with no extra bonuses, and it made it to 2015.
Wonderwolf wrote: Fair enough. But then the default assumption shouldn't be that there are differences, unless GW declares there are or someone provides a scan/picture/some evidence that this is the case.
Does anyone else feel as though these campaign books might be the launch of a business model that's like the age of sigmar one? Release new stuff in huge non-codex codexes? I can see more stuff being done this way seeing as it means they can pump out stuff without total overhauls
its a good thing for story (potentially) but not a great thing for our wallets oops
Buttinsky wrote: Does anyone else feel as though these campaign books might be the launch of a business model that's like the age of sigmar one? Release new stuff in huge non-codex codexes? I can see more stuff being done this way seeing as it means they can pump out stuff without total overhauls
its a good thing for story (potentially) but not a great thing for our wallets oops
Well, it's not really anything new. This is a lot like Shield of Baal, from last year. The only real difference is that you don't have to buy a codex if you don't want to, which is a good thing, I suppose. I think the model is sustainable for factions with a good codex (Tau being one of them), not so much for factions with a terrible codex that needs a major overhaul, like IG or Tyranid.
I doubt GW will want to forever surrender the revenue from codex prints!
The other thing to keep in mind is that stores don't stock the campaign sets forever, but they do with the current codex books. Plus, 8 campaigns later, you wouldn't want to have to bring a truckload of books just to play Space marines.
You cannot (hopefully) argue that GW hasn't been creative.
Previously we've had re-spawning units.
Then we had free wargear options.
Then reserve when-I-Say-So rules
Now we are seeing USR being handed out like Candy, served by a well rounded GMC to balance out the SHW's abound.
All this means is that players will by models and want to play games with them. The basic core tennant of GW aiming to make money means players will play more with the models they purchase.
You then can, very reasonably, rely on the Competitive Meta to balance itself as we have seen with thorough restrictions, Erratas or adjustments (ITC, Nova, etc.).
Reserves when i say so is hardly creative. Thats how it should be by default. I should be able to decide i dont want a unit to come in at all. I can understand the dice to see if they arrived, but not being able to say "Nah, not yet" irritates me.
Thats one thing i love about my Golden Lions in Warzone. They deploy at the start of any turn i want them to in terrain within 12" of a friendly unit, even in melee combat they just simply appear. So i can bring them in exactly when i need them. I wish 40k would change the general reserves to at LEAST allow me to not bring them in. Theres so many times i had to bring in my deepstrikers when i didnt remove the Battlecannon yet, immediately losing half my squad if not more unless i roll my assault move like a boss.
Requizen wrote: Can't find the leaked Fortification rules, anyone have a leak?
Can they only be taken in a Tau CAD or are they available to other armies?
They are found in the Tau Empire section of Kayon. It's very safe to assume it is Tau only. Also considering it says use the stats of the Railgun as found in codex Tau Empire ect.
So wait the formations are not in the tau codex? Thats rather annoying, hope thats not true.
Also, @maceria are you sure you arent looking at Shadowsun's specific shield drones? Those are 3++. If normal shield drones are now a 3++, they may actually be worth taking now.
The Tidewall can be found in the Kauyon supplement, alongside a couple of 'formations' using the separate elements of the kit.
From memory there's one with 3 gunrigs and another that's a square of shieldlines with a droneport and gunrig in the middle.
The Tau-specific formations + Hunter Contingent detachment are in the 2015 Tau codex as well as in Kauyon. The Raven Guard and White Scars formations obviously are only in Kauyon.
Vineheart01 wrote: So wait the formations are not in the tau codex? Thats rather annoying, hope thats not true.
Also, @maceria are you sure you arent looking at Shadowsun's specific shield drones? Those are 3++. If normal shield drones are now a 3++, they may actually be worth taking now.
Formations are, but the rules for the Tidewall is exclusive to Kauyon and it is extensive support. Rules for ways to deploy it that the previous leakers didn't mention. You can take 3 of the gunrig platforms for example. You can also take each piece separately and move them all around independently. Granted some of the super effects of taking the bigger combinations of them won't apply. So there is a downside, but it also makes them all incredibly mobile.
I can take the shieldline for 60 points and it can move independently and have Pathfinders on it.
Edit
All pieces of the Tidewall in any configuration seem to be in the Tau Empire section of Kauyon. The odds of any of them being usable by non Tau is extraordinarily low.
Again, just being in the Tau section isn't a limiter. Every other Fortification so far was introduced in an Imperial themed book and has an Imperial theme to it.
It's clear the guns and what not are Tau only, but taking one in an army is a different story.
Going off of the rules that come with the Tidewall kit itself, after having read them over, I can confirm that for the most part the Tidewall is not really usable by anyone but Tau.
The special rules and abilities for both the Gunrig and the Drone platform specifically say they can only be used by models of the Tau Empire faction. The wall itself, and the cover save that comes with it, is open for anyone to use it seems, so long as you control it. By extension, I didn't see anything saying that the reflection part of the Tidewall's rules apply only to Tau, so in theory if you make a successful cover save using the wall you can try to reflect it (unless I misread that part).
As for moving it, it doesn't seem to mention anything about non-Tau faction models being able to move it, but it doesn't say anything about needing to be part of the Tau faction to move it either, so that might be available to anyone as well.
I mean, all I really want is the wall part to put my Necron Warriors on to make them even more durable than they already are. I don't care about extra guns or drones or whatever haha.
I really want them to make the Aegis Defense Lines and the like "Imperium of Man" only now for the special stuff(weapons and comms relays), since they've now set the precedent with the Tidewall.
You can still claim the Cover saves and gain the Deflection thing even if you are not Tau, but you cannot move it(it's locked out from moving if an enemy unit is on it) and you cannot fire the Railrig(it only will fire for Tau Empire models) without the proper faction.
Faction specific fortifications, and more of them!
Kanluwen wrote: I really want them to make the Aegis Defense Lines and the like "Imperium of Man" only now for the special stuff(weapons and comms relays), since they've now set the precedent with the Tidewall.
You can still claim the Cover saves and gain the Deflection thing even if you are not Tau, but you cannot move it(it's locked out from moving if an enemy unit is on it) and you cannot fire the Railrig(it only will fire for Tau Empire models) without the proper faction.
Faction specific fortifications, and more of them!
That's pretty iffy wording, as it says "cannot move if there are any enemy models on it", but nowhere does it say that the Tidewall itself has the Codex: Tau Empire faction. That wording is inconsistent with all of the other special things that specifically "Tau Empire Faction" on them.
For Fortifications, it has the Faction of the army that took it. So if I take it for my Necrons, "enemy models on it" means anyone that isn't Necron.
That said, we'll have to wait for the full Dataslate for full clarification. But given the current wording found here, it would seem that anyone could move it but only Tau can fire the guns or gain any of the other bonuses. Which is fine.
Requizen wrote:Can't find the leaked Fortification rules, anyone have a leak?
Can they only be taken in a Tau CAD or are they available to other armies?
Spoiler:
The Rampart configuration, IE, the rules in the box, is exclusive to the box. That config provides the Field Network and Telemetry Relay special rules. Rampart is not in Kauyon. You can use the rules in the box to extrapolate the cost of and rules for fielding the individual components.
http://cdn.bols.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/tidewall-rampart-rules.jpg Mobile Defense Position and Firebase special rules are part of every Tidewall model and configuration.
MDP does not specify, and has never specified Tau Empire faction, so these fortifications could technically be taken any unbound army. The effects for non-Tau would be limited, though, because...
Firebase specifically refers to Tau Empire Faction, and doesn't provide bonuses to other units.
Drone Control Systems for the Droneport also specifically refers to Tau Empire Faction, so you'd have to take a Tau unit to activate the Tau units included in certain Tidewall configs.
Identification Protocols for the Gunrig also specifically refers to Tau Empire Faction, so if you took one for a non-Tau army, it'd just sit there unless you also grabbed some other Tau units, too.
The Gunfort and Tidewall Defence Network (Kauyon Configs) are also not feasible for non-Tau armies.
The Shieldline, (Tadpoles), with the exception of the Firebase rule, could be easily usable by any faction. They could still benefit from MDP and Tidewall Field.
A Tau v Tau match with Tidewalls could get really messy and interesting.
So the lone rig is actually part of the Shieldline. But the Tidewall Rempart box is supposed to contain two Shieldlines, but isn't it actually missing a rig or am I missing something?
A shield rig will definitely be good for parking gunlines on, especially broadsides, its basically a better Aegis line. The gunrigs are pretty good as well, essentially unkillable hammerhead guns, put some FW's on there with a 4+ cover save without having to jink, but then cheaper.
Jesus. Plop a Stormsurge on the drone port and have it stabilize and you now have a moving stormsurge at max efficiency.
The gunfort is ridiculous too. 255 points gets you three armorbane railgun shots. That's too good to pass up and I think it will be quite common for a while after the codex drops.
On top of the datasheet is the Tau faction symbol. So these are Tau without a doubt.
Can you add them to any army? Yes, either as part of a 2nd detachment (e.g. CAD or Allied Detachment) build around a small Tau force or you just add it and therefore make your army unbound.
In case of a Come the Apocalypse alliance you have to set up 12" away from the fortification afaik.
These are clearly not faction-free fortifications like the ones from the 6th Ed rulebook and Stronghold Assault.
Oops double-post... May the Dakka machine spirit purge it...
McNinja wrote: Jesus. Plop a Stormsurge on the drone port and have it stabilize and you now have a moving stormsurge at max efficiency.
The gunfort is ridiculous too. 255 points gets you three armorbane railgun shots. That's too good to pass up and I think it will be quite common for a while after the codex drops.
The Stormsurge can't move in any way after it's anchored. Tidewall counts you as statioary for shooting, bu you still moved in the Movement Phase if the Tidewall moved. So no, can't have anchored stormsurges moving around.
McNinja wrote: Jesus. Plop a Stormsurge on the drone port and have it stabilize and you now have a moving stormsurge at max efficiency.
The gunfort is ridiculous too. 255 points gets you three armorbane railgun shots. That's too good to pass up and I think it will be quite common for a while after the codex drops.
You can barely park a Commander on the Gunrig, you're not putting a Stormsurge on them.
MoD_Legion wrote: A shield rig will definitely be good for parking gunlines on, especially broadsides, its basically a better Aegis line. The gunrigs are pretty good as well, essentially unkillable hammerhead guns, put some FW's on there with a 4+ cover save without having to jink, but then cheaper.
Essentially unkillable? W2 T7 isn't what I would call unkillable lol
MoD_Legion wrote: A shield rig will definitely be good for parking gunlines on, especially broadsides, its basically a better Aegis line. The gunrigs are pretty good as well, essentially unkillable hammerhead guns, put some FW's on there with a 4+ cover save without having to jink, but then cheaper.
Essentially unkillable? W2 T7 isn't what I would call unkillable lol
Eh? The gunrigs are battlefield debris item thingie-ma-bobs arent they? (At least I haven't seen any stat lines for em) Meaning you cant remove them from the field. As long as you have a model to place next to it you can keep it shooting.
That whole thing about judging a book by its cover... If I do buy the campaign set, it will be 100% because of the cover, 
.
