Sounds like at least the UK is getting hammered on availability - what about in the US?
I didn’t preorder, but I’m betting the two FLGS here in the vast gaming wasteland will at least have one copy that ends up lingering on the shelf for months.
Ghool wrote: Available or not, that price is insane.
The fact that it sold out at that price is testament to GWs marketing.
It would have been the first GW game I've bought since 1996.
But they priced me out of their market.
To be fair after 22 years "not being a customer" you're probably not in the target market for the game At least by GW's marketing team.
Also don't forget the new titans are vastly bigger than the old warlords and the plastic casting and quality are streets ahead. As a miniature product it is by far and away superior
I know it's supposed to be based on the horus heresy, but has there been any word beyond wishlisting on if they are planning to do any of the titans for other races, like Eldar?
Ghool wrote: Available or not, that price is insane.
The fact that it sold out at that price is testament to GWs marketing.
It would have been the first GW game I've bought since 1996.
But they priced me out of their market.
To be fair after 22 years "not being a customer" you're probably not in the target market for the game At least by GW's marketing team.
If you're trying to regrow your customer base, lapsed customers are one of the richest veins you can mine. From a PR perspective, a lapsed customer effectively saying "I had my hand in my pocket but you screwed it up" should be regarded as somewhat disastrous.
Now in this case people seem to be reenacting a scene from World War Z to get GMEs, but that won't always be the case, and there'll only be so many chances those lapsed customers will give you. AT is objectively expensive, and subjectively too expensive for many, and that might hurt it in the long term.
It's all too easy to be lazy when you're making plenty of money, but GW have been here before, then the LOTR bubble burst and they nearly went bust.
Necros wrote: I know it's supposed to be based on the horus heresy, but has there been any word beyond wishlisting on if they are planning to do any of the titans for other races, like Eldar?
Basically the only mention is that if is sells well and proves to be viable and profitable then GW will continue to support it with new model releases and that they are not opposed to advancing the story line.
This means that if it keeps selling they will likely add more Imperial Knights and Titans; then branch out to Chaos warped stuff and then if that keeps doing well they will likely start adding in Eldar, Orks, Tyranid and the rest.
Overread wrote:o be fair after 22 years "not being a customer" you're probably not in the target market for the game At least by GW's marketing team.
They talk in their financial reports now about the importance of getting back lapsed customers, but I think you're right that this was not the game to necessarily accomplish that for anyone who lapsed because of price. This will definitely have gotten lapsed customers back who are former Epic customers though.
Also don't forget the new titans are vastly bigger than the old warlords and the plastic casting and quality are streets ahead. As a miniature product it is by far and away superior
I'll say that I was simply wrong that they priced this too high. Sure, it may have scuttled some local interest because of the sticker shock, but apparently there's enough UK based interest for the price to be not too high to sell out their stock at launch.
Another thing they've explicitly said in their financial reports is that all the way up to the board of directors they look at both sales numbers and targets for return on capital when deciding what to do in the future. So selling out on preorder in the UK pretty much assures that there will be more of this product line. Anyone hoping for this to get expanded and maybe even infantry and tanks added for some sort of Epic expansion is probably not going to be disappointed by anything other than the time it will take to bring it to market.
You mean you took pre-orders on Saturday for stock that you didn't have until 20 mins ago??? That's misrepresentation and you'll be hearing from Rod Hull's lawyer
Haven't started taking pre-orders
Though, I have to admit, one copy has 'disappeared' already...
Was this mysterious disappearance accompanied by the sound of rapidly fading footsteps and an odd “gleeheeheeheeeeee!” type sound, by any chance?
I managed to snag my FLGS's only copy... The owner only ordered one, and presumably now there are no more to order even if he wanted to embiggen his order.
frozenwastes wrote: . Anyone hoping for this to get expanded and maybe even infantry and tanks added for some sort of Epic expansion is probably not going to be disappointed by anything other than the time it will take to bring it to market.
Personally I'm expecting it to be somewhere in the order of 5 years before we see Xeno factions appear*. I'd wager any shift to Epic will wait until Xenos. That is unless they splinter off a new game alongside (in fairness the rules for AT are clearly build around AT and not around the abundant use of smaller than knight style weapons - we might get a few, but not rank and file armies). If they decide to do another Epic style game then I'd wager at best two or three years before we'd see or hear anything.
*This is assuming steady growth and the expectation that the big first update will be adding full warpchaos models probably around the 2-3 year mark
Ghool wrote: Available or not, that price is insane.
The fact that it sold out at that price is testament to GWs marketing.
It would have been the first GW game I've bought since 1996.
But they priced me out of their market.
To be fair after 22 years "not being a customer" you're probably not in the target market for the game At least by GW's marketing team.
Also don't forget the new titans are vastly bigger than the old warlords and the plastic casting and quality are streets ahead. As a miniature product it is by far and away superior
They could be the best models in the world. But charging $350CAD as a starting point for 2 players is the perfect way to stop me dead in my tracks.
The giant robots and monsters are the appeal for my son, and quite frankly, this is the only boxed set/game they have come out with that does so.
I've paused at Shadespire, checked out Bloodbowl and Necromunda, but none of those appealed to my son.
The giant robots do.
The thing is, they could very likely have a lifetime customer with my kid.
But when they price stuff to a point where I won't even consider it, they've lost a former customer, as well as a potential 'lifer'. No matter how you spin that, it's bad for business.
True but then again I doubt they could have given us models of this quality at the size they are and lowered the price significantly. That said Knights are £20 for a trio with some weapon options and I wager once Reavers hit the market you could make a more affordable start with them - plus Reavers and Warhounds always look great and the Reaver at least is a very good high variety titan suited for lots of roles from ranged gun battery to close combat.
On the one hand cheaper is always good; but on the other sometimes some products just cost what they do.
Also don't forget the boxed set is quite a big bit of content - two larger models; 6 smaller plus a lot of terrain and a complete rules setup with counters, tokens and such (much of which is in plastic instead of punch-card).
frozenwastes wrote: . Anyone hoping for this to get expanded and maybe even infantry and tanks added for some sort of Epic expansion is probably not going to be disappointed by anything other than the time it will take to bring it to market.
Personally I'm expecting it to be somewhere in the order of 5 years before we see Xeno factions appear*. I'd wager any shift to Epic will wait until Xenos. That is unless they splinter off a new game alongside (in fairness the rules for AT are clearly build around AT and not around the abundant use of smaller than knight style weapons - we might get a few, but not rank and file armies). If they decide to do another Epic style game then I'd wager at best two or three years before we'd see or hear anything.
*This is assuming steady growth and the expectation that the big first update will be adding full warpchaos models probably around the 2-3 year mark
I don't actually think there will be Xenos stuff at all. I think it's going to stay in 30k and be Loyalist vs Traitor all the way.
Overread wrote: True but then again I doubt they could have given us models of this quality at the size they are and lowered the price significantly. That said Knights are £20 for a trio with some weapon options and I wager once Reavers hit the market you could make a more affordable start with them - plus Reavers and Warhounds always look great and the Reaver at least is a very good high variety titan suited for lots of roles from ranged gun battery to close combat.
On the one hand cheaper is always good; but on the other sometimes some products just cost what they do.
Also don't forget the boxed set is quite a big bit of content - two larger models; 6 smaller plus a lot of terrain and a complete rules setup with counters, tokens and such (much of which is in plastic instead of punch-card).
To think that there's a substantial link between what a model costs GW and what they charge is bordering on naive at this point. There are equally complex and comparably sized kits that cost less.
The pricing of AT is a combination of the ever increasing march upwards, "because we can," and the knowledge that some of the big stuff is going to be comparably low volume because of the numbers needed by an individual (über collector loons notwithstanding.)
Well yes pricing is way more than just material costs to produce a model of that size; its profit, considering volume of sale (not just per customer but how big the potential customer base might be), considering room within the price to allow for finances to provide for further investment potential in that range (this might even just be looking at the profits). Plus GW has distribution, stores, art, lore, marketing etc.. all to pay for too.
I'll say that I was simply wrong that they priced this too high. Sure, it may have scuttled some local interest because of the sticker shock, but apparently there's enough UK based interest for the price to be not too high to sell out their stock at launch.
Seeing as they seem to have sold thru their entire first run pretty much everywhere (I'm sure a few vendors will have a box or two after all of this) I have to say I too was wrong regarding the price. I didn't expect this to still sell out. I'm glad it did though and personally I'm looking at getting into it in a reasonable way as time moves on and my more preferred titans come out and the knights get more weapons.
They could be the best models in the world. But charging $350CAD as a starting point for 2 players is the perfect way to stop me dead in my tracks.
The giant robots and monsters are the appeal for my son, and quite frankly, this is the only boxed set/game they have come out with that does so.
I've paused at Shadespire, checked out Bloodbowl and Necromunda, but none of those appealed to my son.
The giant robots do.
The thing is, they could very likely have a lifetime customer with my kid.
But when they price stuff to a point where I won't even consider it, they've lost a former customer, as well as a potential 'lifer'. No matter how you spin that, it's bad for business.
True but then again I doubt they could have given us models of this quality at the size they are and lowered the price significantly. That said Knights are £20 for a trio with some weapon options and I wager once Reavers hit the market you could make a more affordable start with them - plus Reavers and Warhounds always look great and the Reaver at least is a very good high variety titan suited for lots of roles from ranged gun battery to close combat.
On the one hand cheaper is always good; but on the other sometimes some products just cost what they do.
Also don't forget the boxed set is quite a big bit of content - two larger models; 6 smaller plus a lot of terrain and a complete rules setup with counters, tokens and such (much of which is in plastic instead of punch-card).
GW Products are a luxury item. They charge a price point at which they calculate they will make the most money. They could sell them significantly cheaper, plastic is ridiculously cheap to make, even factoring in the mold making costs. This isn't a complaint, just the facts. I wish they were cheaper also, AT was priced too high for me to want it. But its their business to run, Individual customers mean nothing to them, profit means everything. They changed how they interacted with the community not to be nice guys, but because it would net them more sales, and it has. I'm not saying they are evil or bad. All businesses exist to make money.
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Seeing as they seem to have sold thru their entire first run pretty much everywhere (I'm sure a few vendors will have a box or two after all of this) I have to say I too was wrong regarding the price. I didn't expect this to still sell out.
It really hasn't in the US. Most of the big online dealers have stock left.
Also don't forget the new titans are vastly bigger than the old warlords and the plastic casting and quality are streets ahead. As a miniature product it is by far and away superior
Compared to 1996? Obviously. But I can't imagine a vast improvement on 2017. Their artistic direction has lapsed frequently over the last 10 years but afaik the plastic and casting quality hasn't improved significantly over this time period. Not sure how it could really.
Stormonu wrote: Sounds like at least the UK is getting hammered on availability - what about in the US?
I didn’t preorder, but I’m betting the two FLGS here in the vast gaming wasteland will at least have one copy that ends up lingering on the shelf for months.
GW US has been out of stock for more than a day now on the GM box. Miniature Market is still taking preorders on everything; whether you'll get it, or one of those 'ain't gonna happen' letters after the fact, who knows. The closest local store did not take any pre orders at all. The best they would offer is show up Saturday at open, and maybe you'll snag one first come, first serve. This is the first GW product that has happened to in a while. I think the last where you had to preorder to get one at all was Shadow War:Armageddon. No such luck on Titanicus.
Ghool wrote: Available or not, that price is insane.
The fact that it sold out at that price is testament to GWs marketing..
I don't quite agree with that. If GW had made the Warlord smaller and cheaper, and therefore the set cheaper or at least maybe with more Titans then I think it all would sell even better.
This game wasn't developed from a void, lots of peeps remember the glory days of Epic and are excited to see GW going down this road. Also, its a change from the 28mm games that GW has done the last 10 years (well, besides Dreadfleet). GW is pumping out a ton of games that use miniatures in other games which is fine and I am sure a lot of people appreciate that, but to me, it's also getting boring. I think part of the excitement with AT is a new scale. I do hope we see a second box set introducing infantry and vehicles like in SM1.
Which btw, there seems to be this idea that the original AT game was meant to be titans only, and that isn't really true. There was always an intention to expand on it and articles for vehicles came out in White Dwarf soon after its release. It was the success of those articles that gave way to SM1.
Also, once AT/SM1 was revised to SM2, the success of SM2 brought on TL. I asked Jervis back in the day if there was a plan to follow up Epic 40k with another set and he said had Epic 40k been successful, they would have. I can only imagine what that set would have been (he didn't elaborate on it).
There just wasn't any plan to make an EpicA box set, as Fanatic didn't have the resources at the time, but I knew that would kill the interest for the game right out of the gate. You really need some kind of starter army for Epic, and not just force players to go out and buy everything. I do think the GME does create excitement for the game even if not everyone wants it. The shame is that it is not more affordable, and I blame the size of the models on that.
I just aren't sure how many players will build up large forces. Even a combination of 5 warlords, reavers, or warhounds seems stretching it. And how many games could you possibly play with those units before you get bored? That is why I have said that I hope the designers kept this in the back of their mind when creating this system, because the longer it goes on for, the more Titans will end up being sold. But if people are convinced this is it, then interest will drop off pretty rapidly as GW keeps listing new boxed games every couple of months.
I mean, imagine a GME set only based on Space Marine v1, with just Marines, Rhinos, and Land Raiders (maybe Whirlwinds), and buildings, with rules to play the game within itself, or alongside the AT version. Epic players will go nuts.
I haven't seen the models in the flesh yet.. the warlord price seems kinda high to me.. is it worth $110.. like compared to other GW minis of similar size/price? Seems high to me, but then, it's GW
Necros wrote: I haven't seen the models in the flesh yet.. the warlord price seems kinda high to me.. is it worth $110.. like compared to other GW minis of similar size/price? Seems high to me, but then, it's GW
It's slightly smaller than a knight. I think I'd have to see it in person to appreciate the size personally. Thus far it hasn't been something that my head really wraps itself around.
Personally though, my main issue is just that there's really nothing that makes it feel bigger to me than playing with my Knights. The terrain really has to sell the scale difference that aspect just isn't clicking for me.
Overread wrote: Well yes pricing is way more than just material costs to produce a model of that size; its profit, considering volume of sale (not just per customer but how big the potential customer base might be), considering room within the price to allow for finances to provide for further investment potential in that range (this might even just be looking at the profits). Plus GW has distribution, stores, art, lore, marketing etc.. all to pay for too.
Yeah, if you've even a passing familiarity with my posting history you'll realise that this isn't news to me.
As per their last report, their cost of sales is running a little over 25% (a figure that has been largely consistent by a few % for years now.) So, broadly speaking, that £65 Warlord cost them around £13 to make, including all the studio costs to design it, the machining of the die to cast it, and all associated costs getting it in the box (including printing that box.)
Irrespective of how well they're doing, I'm still convinced that their pricing is past the peak of the bell curve, and they could be doing even better. Of course, if one is experiencing a production bottleneck, and has a hardcore of credulous customers who seemingly aren't price elastic, then throwing product out at a premium and realising the most cash on the limited number of units you've got isnt bad business, but long term I think price is going to become an issue once again, as they still continue to raise their prices as they release new product.
frozenwastes wrote: . Anyone hoping for this to get expanded and maybe even infantry and tanks added for some sort of Epic expansion is probably not going to be disappointed by anything other than the time it will take to bring it to market.
Personally I'm expecting it to be somewhere in the order of 5 years before we see Xeno factions appear*. I'd wager any shift to Epic will wait until Xenos. That is unless they splinter off a new game alongside (in fairness the rules for AT are clearly build around AT and not around the abundant use of smaller than knight style weapons - we might get a few, but not rank and file armies). If they decide to do another Epic style game then I'd wager at best two or three years before we'd see or hear anything.
*This is assuming steady growth and the expectation that the big first update will be adding full warpchaos models probably around the 2-3 year mark
I don't actually think there will be Xenos stuff at all. I think it's going to stay in 30k and be Loyalist vs Traitor all the way.
Xenos is coming. The only thing stopping it is poor sales. Tony Cottrell said they would do the other races. It is Epic that is a ? I think it will definitely come as they deliberately sized the scale so that you could tell the difference in mk armour on a space marine but Tony did say that they are not making the mistake they did last time and rushing into Epic. It will be a long long way off.
Don't kid yourself. By the time you think they should be releasing xenos, they'll have done a dozen new big box games and AT will be another forgotten project.
I've been looking at the knight sprues and I can't figure out whether they have slots for magnetizing. It looks like the arms should be swappable pretty easily.
Does anyone know? if they do, what size magnets would they take?
lord_blackfang wrote: Don't kid yourself. By the time you think they should be releasing xenos, they'll have done a dozen new big box games and AT will be another forgotten project.
You say this but out of the "big box" items we've had so far obviously 40k & AoS are supported but so is Kill Team, Shadespire, Necromunda, and Bloodbowl are still being supported. The first 4 being produced by GW proper and not specialist games but the two specialist games are being supported. And unlike the previous 2 specialist games this is designed for Match Play which seems to be an indicator of seriousness of continuation. Additionally it may have been on the fence but I'm pretty sure their financials will bear out this was a good launch.
lord_blackfang wrote: Don't kid yourself. By the time you think they should be releasing xenos, they'll have done a dozen new big box games and AT will be another forgotten project.
You say this but out of the "big box" items we've had so far obviously 40k & AoS are supported but so is Kill Team, Shadespire, Necromunda, and Bloodbowl are still being supported. The first 4 being produced by GW proper and not specialist games but the two specialist games are being supported. And unlike the previous 2 specialist games this is designed for Match Play which seems to be an indicator of seriousness of continuation. Additionally it may have been on the fence but I'm pretty sure their financials will bear out this was a good launch.
Indeed. Lord blackfang’s scenario has happened with literally zero of the previous Specialist Games projects, so I have no idea where that came from. Even smaller GW boxed games like Renegade, Lost Patrol and Execution force have received post-release support in White Dwarf. Titanicus is not one of those games though, it’s a fully supported Specialist Games product just like all their other projects.
lord_blackfang wrote: Don't kid yourself. By the time you think they should be releasing xenos, they'll have done a dozen new big box games and AT will be another forgotten project.
You say this but out of the "big box" items we've had so far obviously 40k & AoS are supported but so is Kill Team, Shadespire, Necromunda, and Bloodbowl are still being supported. The first 4 being produced by GW proper and not specialist games but the two specialist games are being supported. And unlike the previous 2 specialist games this is designed for Match Play which seems to be an indicator of seriousness of continuation. Additionally it may have been on the fence but I'm pretty sure their financials will bear out this was a good launch.
Indeed. Lord blackfang’s scenario has happened with literally zero of the previous Specialist Games projects, so I have no idea where that came from. Even smaller GW boxed games like Renegade, Lost Patrol and Execution force have received post-release support in White Dwarf. Titanicus is not one of those games though, it’s a fully supported Specialist Games product just like all their other projects.
No, Lord Blackfang's scenario has happened with literally every specialist game, you just need a long enough memory.
Support for 12 months and then on to the next thing is the life of a GW specialist game.
To make any assumptions about long term support based on two years of, occasional,y decidedly patchy, releases isn't a good idea.
Edit: Also, we're not talking ten years ago, were talking back into the last century, in the era of 2nd Ed 40K, Epic was a core game and stuff like Gorka Morka happened. Non-core games still operated on an essentially 12 month cycle.
lord_blackfang wrote: Don't kid yourself. By the time you think they should be releasing xenos, they'll have done a dozen new big box games and AT will be another forgotten project.
You say this but out of the "big box" items we've had so far obviously 40k & AoS are supported but so is Kill Team, Shadespire, Necromunda, and Bloodbowl are still being supported. The first 4 being produced by GW proper and not specialist games but the two specialist games are being supported. And unlike the previous 2 specialist games this is designed for Match Play which seems to be an indicator of seriousness of continuation. Additionally it may have been on the fence but I'm pretty sure their financials will bear out this was a good launch.
Indeed. Lord blackfang’s scenario has happened with literally zero of the previous Specialist Games projects, so I have no idea where that came from. Even smaller GW boxed games like Renegade, Lost Patrol and Execution force have received post-release support in White Dwarf. Titanicus is not one of those games though, it’s a fully supported Specialist Games product just like all their other projects.
No, Lord Blackfang's scenario has happened with literally every specialist game, you just need a long enough memory.
Support for 12 months and then on to the next thing is the life of a GW specialist game.
It should be pretty obvious I wasn’t talking about the old Specialist Games, which is quite irrelevant to this discussion since it consisted of entirely different people under entirely different leadership.
@ Overread- I'm streets behind! Awesome reference.
I think those worrying about support for Adeptus Titanicus are taking the wrong message away from this.
GW just sold out a bundle that cost almost 300 dollars at a much lower discount point than the bundles. Expect more product like this, priced like this in the future.
I predict, here and now, BFG will be upscaled and its price made equivalent to Adeptus Titanicus.
Azreal13 wrote: To make any assumptions about long term support based on two years of, occasional,y decidedly patchy, releases isn't a good idea.
Edit: Also, we're not talking ten years ago, were talking back into the last century, in the era of 2nd Ed 40K, Epic was a core game and stuff like Gorka Morka happened. Non-core games still operated on an essentially 12 month cycle.
But it is, and in fact is the only relevant comparison we can make.
lord_blackfang wrote: Don't kid yourself. By the time you think they should be releasing xenos, they'll have done a dozen new big box games and AT will be another forgotten project.
You say this but out of the "big box" items we've had so far obviously 40k & AoS are supported but so is Kill Team, Shadespire, Necromunda, and Bloodbowl are still being supported. The first 4 being produced by GW proper and not specialist games but the two specialist games are being supported. And unlike the previous 2 specialist games this is designed for Match Play which seems to be an indicator of seriousness of continuation. Additionally it may have been on the fence but I'm pretty sure their financials will bear out this was a good launch.
Indeed. Lord blackfang’s scenario has happened with literally zero of the previous Specialist Games projects, so I have no idea where that came from. Even smaller GW boxed games like Renegade, Lost Patrol and Execution force have received post-release support in White Dwarf. Titanicus is not one of those games though, it’s a fully supported Specialist Games product just like all their other projects.
No, Lord Blackfang's scenario has happened with literally every specialist game, you just need a long enough memory.
Support for 12 months and then on to the next thing is the life of a GW specialist game.
It should be pretty obvious I wasn’t talking about the old Specialist Games, which is quite irrelevant to this discussion since it consisted of entirely different people under entirely different leadership.
Theres zero evidence that nuGW won't do likewise, simply because SG haven't been back long enough to prove otherwise.
Azreal13 wrote: To make any assumptions about long term support based on two years of, occasional,y decidedly patchy, releases isn't a good idea.
Edit: Also, we're not talking ten years ago, were talking back into the last century, in the era of 2nd Ed 40K, Epic was a core game and stuff like Gorka Morka happened. Non-core games still operated on an essentially 12 month cycle.
But it is, and in fact is the only relevant comparison we can make.
Really "nu-uh, yes it is" is your counter?
Comparing specialist games of yesteryear is either a valid comparison or it isn't, make your mind up.
Overread wrote: Well yes pricing is way more than just material costs to produce a model of that size; its profit, considering volume of sale (not just per customer but how big the potential customer base might be), considering room within the price to allow for finances to provide for further investment potential in that range (this might even just be looking at the profits). Plus GW has distribution, stores, art, lore, marketing etc.. all to pay for too.
Yeah, if you've even a passing familiarity with my posting history you'll realise that this isn't news to me.
As per their last report, their cost of sales is running a little over 25% (a figure that has been largely consistent by a few % for years now.) So, broadly speaking, that £65 Warlord cost them around £13 to make, including all the studio costs to design it, the machining of the die to cast it, and all associated costs getting it in the box (including printing that box.)
Irrespective of how well they're doing, I'm still convinced that their pricing is past the peak of the bell curve, and they could be doing even better. Of course, if one is experiencing a production bottleneck, and has a hardcore of credulous customers who seemingly aren't price elastic, then throwing product out at a premium and realising the most cash on the limited number of units you've got isnt bad business, but long term I think price is going to become an issue once again, as they still continue to raise their prices as they release new product.
Maybe, on the other hand, I expected AT Titans to have a premium price, due to GW expecting to sell less of them etc. but when you compare the price to modern GW products it's pricing is more or less in line with the other big stompy robots they've produced recently, So they're expensive yes but at least it's only 40k expensive, and there's no "specialist games tax"
But AT is honestly a weird one, the rules are very reasonable given all the doohickeys included, the Knights are almost half what I expected the box of 3 to be, yet the Warlord and the GME are over and above what I thought was an already pessimistic personal prediction.
still a little baffled that so many of the GW faithful have been taken in by the highly managed fake scarcity BS of the GME, its the kind of gakky move the other companys such as Nintendo and WoTC have been pulling for years
But AT is honestly a weird one, the rules are very reasonable given all the doohickeys included, the Knights are almost half what I expected the box of 3 to be, yet the Warlord and the GME are over and above what I thought was an already pessimistic personal prediction.
IMHO the warlord should not have been the "intro titan" and it should have been saved for last. If they had introduced the riever first that proably would have been the better way to do it. it's a solid general titan. and likely will be the "work horse" titan for most people it will have kept the cost down, and I think people would have accepted the price of the warlord when it came later better as it wouldn't have been seen as the "inital titan" but rather as "my big centerpiece" If the reiver sells for say the price of a redemptor dread they could keep the price MUCH lower and you'd have likely been looking at a 200-250 dollar set instead of a 300 dollar one
Turnip Jedi wrote: still a little baffled that so many of the GW faithful have been taken in by the highly managed fake scarcity BS of the GME, its the kind of gakky move the other companys such as Nintendo and WoTC have been pulling for years
I don't think many are "taken in" by it. It's just a limited production run for something that is appearing to sell really well. All the content in the box is freely sold and will be produced as normal by GW from now on until AT dies. The only limited item was the coin.
I think afew who were very much on the fence have balked when their orders have been cancelled and just gone from "eh maybe" to "eh nope" or they wanted the discount and free Warlord, but might not have time to get started now and so are willing to wait .
Azreal13 wrote: To make any assumptions about long term support based on two years of, occasional,y decidedly patchy, releases isn't a good idea.
Edit: Also, we're not talking ten years ago, were talking back into the last century, in the era of 2nd Ed 40K, Epic was a core game and stuff like Gorka Morka happened. Non-core games still operated on an essentially 12 month cycle.
We know the new specialist games are being supported. We know they have expanded their team to keep sculpting more.
We know the AT guy is there sculpting AT stuff and will continue to do so.
Turnip Jedi wrote: still a little baffled that so many of the GW faithful have been taken in by the highly managed fake scarcity BS of the GME, its the kind of gakky move the other companys such as Nintendo and WoTC have been pulling for years
I don't think many are "taken in" by it. It's just a limited production run for something that is appearing to sell really well. All the content in the box is freely sold and will be produced as normal by GW from now on until AT dies. The only limited item was the coin.
I think afew who were very much on the fence have balked when their orders have been cancelled and just gone from "eh maybe" to "eh nope" or they wanted the discount and free Warlord, but might not have time to get started now and so are willing to wait .
Personally I hope it has sold like hot cakes and is not created scarcity, if it sold then GW will notice there is a demand for this game and fingers crossed give me the game I want !!
Azreal13 wrote: To make any assumptions about long term support based on two years of, occasional,y decidedly patchy, releases isn't a good idea.
Edit: Also, we're not talking ten years ago, were talking back into the last century, in the era of 2nd Ed 40K, Epic was a core game and stuff like Gorka Morka happened. Non-core games still operated on an essentially 12 month cycle.
We know the new specialist games are being supported. We know they have expanded their team to keep sculpting more.
We know the AT guy is there sculpting AT stuff and will continue to do so.
Which is no different from the past, until it stopped.
GW has a case of corporate ADHD, none of the new shiny that people have got excited about has given any indication that's changed, the only thing that will do so is if we can be talking in 5 years about the latest updates to AT or Shadespire, and not have the conversation be "oh, I remember that, good game, shame they didn't keep making it."
They've never had anything like the support they are giving these games now. Specialist games have obviously been a massive success, they aren't going anywhere.
Stuff like the boxed games, the Heresy ones, GoC, the new speed freaks etc - they are 40k support. They'll get white dwarf stuff now and again but thas all
Kill team, shadespire, warhammer quest are obviously for the longer haul. They'll keep having releases under that brand.
Lets be honest ANY product GW makes has the potential to die from either the market just not taking it up enough; to GW not pushing or advertising or working with it enough through to internal politics in GW killing it through to a sudden spike in trade prices meaning GW has to cut some chaff to preserve its core products etc....
Any product we buy into - even the mighty Sigmar and 40K can die. Heck we NEARLY saw the total end of GW producing a fantasy game (Fantasy was on its knees and had just lost Tomb Kings and was likely going to lose way more) etc...
However I think there is a point at which we can be so overly negative that we overlook the positive aspects (and yes there is positive beyond just a paycheque for GW staff and the shareholders)
Vorian wrote: They've never had anything like the support they are giving these games now.
Were you around in the 90s? Because the volume of stuff that came out for the specialist game du jour was easily on par with what we're seeing now. They're just doing it concurrently and over a longer time frame now, whereas they used to just release it all in a few months, publish a few articles in WD and then move on to the next game in the rotation.
Specialist games have obviously been a massive success, they aren't going anywhere.
Unlike the last time they were successful and not going anywhere?
Stuff like the boxed games, the Heresy ones, GoC, the new speed freaks etc - they are 40k support. They'll get white dwarf stuff now and again but thas all
Kill team, shadespire, warhammer quest are obviously for the longer haul. They'll keep having releases under that brand.
Citation needed. Or, more accurately, sufficient time passed needed to make this actually true rather than marketing spiel.
Turnip Jedi wrote: still a little baffled that so many of the GW faithful have been taken in by the highly managed fake scarcity BS of the GME, its the kind of gakky move the other companys such as Nintendo and WoTC have been pulling for years
According to their statements in their financial reports GW, up to the board room level, GW concerns itself with return on capital as a metric of success for their projects and making decisions about future projects.
It's not artificial scarcity, it's risk management. It's making an analisys of the financial results of a variety of prices and volumes sold. And you can't actually know the combination of volume and price to generate the maximum possible revenue in advance. So all you can do is make projections about possible scenarios and GW knows they easiest way to kill their return on captial for an entire quarter is to get this wrong.
Sure, I was, but I remember it differently to you. Epic had a few updates to go with the very old plastics. Necromunda was one major release followed by outlander expansion and then years later a half arsed fanatic few gangs.
All those were done as side projects by the main studio. They were great, don't get me wrong, but nothing like we are seeing now
These have an entire division set up and people employed to work solely on these things.
The Warlord is right about the same size of Magnus and Mortarion (not counting wings), both of which are more expensive. They all reach just under the edge of the standard Knight's shoulder guards, with Mortarion being the shortest.
What were people expecting with the price? Seriously.
xttz wrote: Hi. If y'all want to discuss how big evil GW is lying to us to steal all our money, any chance of doing it outside the giant robbits thread? Cheers.
I'm sure it will all ease off once the orders go out and people start getting rules, mechs and all in their hands
Vorian wrote: They've never had anything like the support they are giving these games now.
Were you around in the 90s? Because the volume of stuff that came out for the specialist game du jour was easily on par with what we're seeing now. They're just doing it concurrently and over a longer time frame now, whereas they used to just release it all in a few months, publish a few articles in WD and then move on to the next game in the rotation.
Specialist games have obviously been a massive success, they aren't going anywhere.
Unlike the last time they were successful and not going anywhere?
Stuff like the boxed games, the Heresy ones, GoC, the new speed freaks etc - they are 40k support. They'll get white dwarf stuff now and again but thas all
Kill team, shadespire, warhammer quest are obviously for the longer haul. They'll keep having releases under that brand.
Citation needed. Or, more accurately, sufficient time passed needed to make this actually true rather than marketing spiel.
Show me where the bad specialist game manager touched you! But seriously the only product still going strong from the 90's table top strategy wise is 40k.....You seem stuck on the idea that every product released should have full coverage forever. 40k is the outlier, not the norm. Even WFB died. That said GW seems dedicated to providing full games now. I wouldn't be surprised for most specialist games to get 2-4 years of support before being considered a "full" game and then they stop support. That's reasonable for a side game. If they keep selling the models as direct only that's not really a huge deal to me. That's still more than most game systems last put out by other companies.
I've also hear that Rountree spent time with specialist games before he went to Forgeworld. If that's the case we've actually got someone who believes in side games being beneficial to the health of the company. Take a breath and maybe a break. You're not the only guy whose been around since 2nd edition and honestly even with me being an adult and having way less free time I'm currently happier with GW than I ever was in the late 90's and early 2000's let alone the dark times before Rountree.
zend wrote: The Warlord is right about the same size of Magnus and Mortarion (not counting wings), both of which are more expensive. They all reach just under the edge of the standard Knight's shoulder guards, with Mortarion being the shortest.
What were people expecting with the price? Seriously.
Bell of Lost Souls actually put out an article with an image that really gives a fantastic prespective of the price
It shows that the Warlord is pretty much in line with every other big stompy robot GW has given us in the last few years. So yeah, the price of the Warlord is about what we should expect.
It might be in line with GW's normal pricing...but that still doesn't actually justify the price to many consumers (myself included). GW of course, can price however they wish - and obviously their stuff sells. But there are a lot of gamers who play GW games who do not buy large $100+ models unless we find a crazy sale, or a combo-box, etc.
Vorian wrote: They've never had anything like the support they are giving these games now. Specialist games have obviously been a massive success, they aren't going anywhere.
Stuff like the boxed games, the Heresy ones, GoC, the new speed freaks etc - they are 40k support. They'll get white dwarf stuff now and again but thas all
Kill team, shadespire, warhammer quest are obviously for the longer haul. They'll keep having releases under that brand.
Specialist were always a success. They were nice games, and manageable too. The trouble was, once you had your 3 Necro gangs, or 3 BB teams, you were basically done spending. Sure you might get bored eventually, but you could then buy another single gang, or even just start using one of your mate's BB team and he uses one of yours. Not like 40K, where if you're bored of your SMs and want to switch to Eldar, it's a reasonably large financial investment. Theoretically you could swap your Marines for someone else's Eldar, but that seems far more drastic than a temporary loan of a small, 15 model team / gang. Maybe that's the reason they're doing this weird staggered release (they were always staggered ofc, but not to this extent as far as I recall). Maybe the plan is that everyone buys everything, because they've got 3 months to buy and paint each team / gang as they're released. And the prices seem reasonable too, so that could further encourage people to buy absolutely everything the game has to offer.
Seeing that comparison image makes me think the warhounds might be quite a bit cheaper than armigers. The warhounds should be pretty short compared to the warlord and be at a hopefully decent price. Being able to skip the warlord and get two warhounds for less than a pair of armigers should lower the cost of entry to the game quite a bit, as 2 warhounds and a knight banner could offer plenty of gameplay variety compared to 1 warlord and 3 knights dueling off in a mirror match.
zend wrote: The Warlord is right about the same size of Magnus and Mortarion (not counting wings), both of which are more expensive. They all reach just under the edge of the standard Knight's shoulder guards, with Mortarion being the shortest.
What were people expecting with the price? Seriously.
Bell of Lost Souls actually put out an article with an image that really gives a fantastic prespective of the price
It shows that the Warlord is pretty much in line with every other big stompy robot GW has given us in the last few years. So yeah, the price of the Warlord is about what we should expect.
The £50 Crusader / Errant seems like a glaringly convenient omission.
They could be the best models in the world. But charging $350CAD as a starting point for 2 players is the perfect way to stop me dead in my tracks.
The set's expensive as it is in the UK, but the Canadian price is a really bitter pill to swallow. Our prices don't include sales tax, while the UK prices do - so the RRP of £175 (C$290.50) is actually £145.83 ($242.08 Canadian) + tax. So right out of the gate we're paying an extra hundred bucks just because.
I want the set, but I'm just going to wait till I can snag one from a UK discounter and have it sent to my family in the UK. If I can grab one at £140 it'll be costing me $232.40 instead of the $392 I'd pay at my local GW after sales tax and I'll pick it up next time I'm over there.
zend wrote: The Warlord is right about the same size of Magnus and Mortarion (not counting wings), both of which are more expensive. They all reach just under the edge of the standard Knight's shoulder guards, with Mortarion being the shortest.
What were people expecting with the price? Seriously.
Bell of Lost Souls actually put out an article with an image that really gives a fantastic prespective of the price
It shows that the Warlord is pretty much in line with every other big stompy robot GW has given us in the last few years. So yeah, the price of the Warlord is about what we should expect.
And all but that dreadnought and the Warlord are usuable in multiple systems by multiple factions. When I pay $150 for an Imperial Knight, I'm paying for the option to use it in many different ways, in many different venues. When I'm paying $110 for a AT Warlord Titan, I'm paying $110 to use it in a very niche game that I may or may not be able to find folks to play with.
zend wrote: The Warlord is right about the same size of Magnus and Mortarion (not counting wings), both of which are more expensive. They all reach just under the edge of the standard Knight's shoulder guards, with Mortarion being the shortest.
What were people expecting with the price? Seriously.
Bell of Lost Souls actually put out an article with an image that really gives a fantastic prespective of the price
It shows that the Warlord is pretty much in line with every other big stompy robot GW has given us in the last few years. So yeah, the price of the Warlord is about what we should expect.
With the Reaver being not too far away from the Redemptor in size this makes me think a £40-45 price isn't too far fetched. Then perhaps the same again for 2 Warhounds and suddenly a playable AT force becomes more accessible.
Vorian wrote: They've never had anything like the support they are giving these games now. Specialist games have obviously been a massive success, they aren't going anywhere.
Stuff like the boxed games, the Heresy ones, GoC, the new speed freaks etc - they are 40k support. They'll get white dwarf stuff now and again but thas all
Kill team, shadespire, warhammer quest are obviously for the longer haul. They'll keep having releases under that brand.
Specialist were always a success. They were nice games, and manageable too. The trouble was, once you had your 3 Necro gangs, or 3 BB teams, you were basically done spending. Sure you might get bored eventually, but you could then buy another single gang, or even just start using one of your mate's BB team and he uses one of yours. Not like 40K, where if you're bored of your SMs and want to switch to Eldar, it's a reasonably large financial investment. Theoretically you could swap your Marines for someone else's Eldar, but that seems far more drastic than a temporary loan of a small, 15 model team / gang. Maybe that's the reason they're doing this weird staggered release (they were always staggered ofc, but not to this extent as far as I recall). Maybe the plan is that everyone buys everything, because they've got 3 months to buy and paint each team / gang as they're released. And the prices seem reasonable too, so that could further encourage people to buy absolutely everything the game has to offer.
Take a look at Shadespire, and it's quite obvious this is the plan.
If you want all the cards, you need to buy all the warbands.
With the price point, I don't see many guys not buying everything for Shadespire.
From where I'm standing, this looks to be the long-term plan - get everyone to just buy everything.
zend wrote: The Warlord is right about the same size of Magnus and Mortarion (not counting wings), both of which are more expensive. They all reach just under the edge of the standard Knight's shoulder guards, with Mortarion being the shortest.
What were people expecting with the price? Seriously.
Bell of Lost Souls actually put out an article with an image that really gives a fantastic prespective of the price
It shows that the Warlord is pretty much in line with every other big stompy robot GW has given us in the last few years. So yeah, the price of the Warlord is about what we should expect.
And all but that dreadnought and the Warlord are usuable in multiple systems by multiple factions. When I pay $150 for an Imperial Knight, I'm paying for the option to use it in many different ways, in many different venues. When I'm paying $110 for a AT Warlord Titan, I'm paying $110 to use it in a very niche game that I may or may not be able to find folks to play with.
That picture really means nothing.
A bit disingenuous there, you buy any of the knights to play as either Imperium or Chaos (are the new ones usable for Chaos?) and solely for 40K, there are going to be very, very few people buying Renegade and Fogebane to actually play those games and almost all of them are bought for 40K.
So pretty much the same as the Titanicus Titans, all can be played as either Impreial or Chaos and all for a single game system.
The real bummer I see with Titanicus is now GW knows they can charge what they did for the Grand Master set and people will fight each other to pay it. I can only assume when something like BFG comes back out, it will have it's ships similarly upscaled and be priced accordingly, rather than $120 for something akin to what the box set contained the first time around.
zend wrote: The Warlord is right about the same size of Magnus and Mortarion (not counting wings), both of which are more expensive. They all reach just under the edge of the standard Knight's shoulder guards, with Mortarion being the shortest.
What were people expecting with the price? Seriously.
Bell of Lost Souls actually put out an article with an image that really gives a fantastic prespective of the price
It shows that the Warlord is pretty much in line with every other big stompy robot GW has given us in the last few years. So yeah, the price of the Warlord is about what we should expect.
With the Reaver being not too far away from the Redemptor in size this makes me think a £40-45 price isn't too far fetched. Then perhaps the same again for 2 Warhounds and suddenly a playable AT force becomes more accessible.
I'm of the opinion the Reaver should have been the first Titan they put out, or even a warhound, keep the inital box set buy in cost low, and let the warlord be something that people see as being more of an expensive centerpiece. On the other hand it looks like most if not all Maniples are build around a warlord so...
Plus, you can totally use your AT Warlord as an Armiger if you don't mind it being a tad too big. It's not like it was ever going to get a cover save anyways.
Also, GW basicly outright says in one of their AT videos they expect there will be a collector's market for these things, people looking for a display piece
Vorian wrote: They've never had anything like the support they are giving these games now.
Were you around in the 90s? Because the volume of stuff that came out for the specialist game du jour was easily on par with what we're seeing now. They're just doing it concurrently and over a longer time frame now, whereas they used to just release it all in a few months, publish a few articles in WD and then move on to the next game in the rotation.
Specialist games have obviously been a massive success, they aren't going anywhere.
Unlike the last time they were successful and not going anywhere?
Stuff like the boxed games, the Heresy ones, GoC, the new speed freaks etc - they are 40k support. They'll get white dwarf stuff now and again but thas all
Kill team, shadespire, warhammer quest are obviously for the longer haul. They'll keep having releases under that brand.
Citation needed. Or, more accurately, sufficient time passed needed to make this actually true rather than marketing spiel.
Show me where the bad specialist game manager touched you! But seriously the only product still going strong from the 90's table top strategy wise is 40k.....You seem stuck on the idea that every product released should have full coverage forever. 40k is the outlier, not the norm. Even WFB died. That said GW seems dedicated to providing full games now. I wouldn't be surprised for most specialist games to get 2-4 years of support before being considered a "full" game and then they stop support. That's reasonable for a side game. If they keep selling the models as direct only that's not really a huge deal to me. That's still more than most game systems last put out by other companies.
I've also hear that Rountree spent time with specialist games before he went to Forgeworld. If that's the case we've actually got someone who believes in side games being beneficial to the health of the company. Take a breath and maybe a break. You're not the only guy whose been around since 2nd edition and honestly even with me being an adult and having way less free time I'm currently happier with GW than I ever was in the late 90's and early 2000's let alone the dark times before Rountree.
I'm not stuck on the idea they should have coverage forever, I am in fact arguing that I expect that their coverage of these games won't last. It's other people who seem to feel the need to argue that it's going to go on, when precedent suggests it simply won't. I'm not wound up about it, I'm simply disagreeing with people who think that these games are going to receive support ad Infinitum in the absence of any evidence or experience to the contrary.
Huh. Stick a magnet on the bottom of some shieldbreaker missiles, and you have great stand ins for the warp missile rack on the warlord. And there tend to be spares since 2 cannons 1 missile is a good loadout for the knight.
Clearly cost is a deal breaker for a lot of folks right now, although it remains to be seen if the Reaver and Warhound prices bring some folks back.
My idea to GW, of course, would be an "Easy To Build" warlord, like they did with the Redemptor dreadnought. $45 maybe, monopose, and you draw in the money conscious to buy into the rules. Before you hook them with add-on weapon packs and campaign books and such!
I don't think they would go through the effort of trying to produce an easy to build warlord. It's slightly too complex of a model to do that with, you'd lose quite a bit of detail. If anything they'd just suggest starting with a reaver or two warhounds instead. It wouldn't be an efficient use of their resources and manpower (which the specialist games is limited in). Better idea to put chris drew to work on cerastus knights or plastic upgrade sprues, or even a new class of titan entirely.
Oggthrok wrote: Clearly cost is a deal breaker for a lot of folks right now, although it remains to be seen if the Reaver and Warhound prices bring some folks back.
My idea to GW, of course, would be an "Easy To Build" warlord, like they did with the Redemptor dreadnought. $45 maybe, monopose, and you draw in the money conscious to buy into the rules. Before you hook them with add-on weapon packs and campaign books and such!
even easy build seems like it'd be expensive for a warlord, now an easy build reaver seems idealthe warlord is supposed to be the big expensive centerline of most armies. If I had to go with a easy build option I'd rather it be the Reaver because people will proably be buying more of them.
vegeta365 wrote: Xenos is coming. The only thing stopping it is poor sales. Tony Cottrell said they would do the other races. It is Epic that is a ? I think it will definitely come as they deliberately sized the scale so that you could tell the difference in mk armour on a space marine but Tony did say that they are not making the mistake they did last time and rushing into Epic. It will be a long long way off.
6mm allows distinction of marks as well. Well at least 3rd parties can. Would be embarrassing for "best miniature makers in the world" as they self-style not be able to replicate what independent sculptor could do
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Azreal13 wrote: To make any assumptions about long term support based on two years of, occasional,y decidedly patchy, releases isn't a good idea.
Edit: Also, we're not talking ten years ago, were talking back into the last century, in the era of 2nd Ed 40K, Epic was a core game and stuff like Gorka Morka happened. Non-core games still operated on an essentially 12 month cycle.
'90's gorkamorka sales weren't particularly good though so not fair to use that as example...Hell GW nearly went down due to Gorkamorka sales being so bad.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Huh. Stick a magnet on the bottom of some shieldbreaker missiles, and you have great stand ins for the warp missile rack on the warlord. And there tend to be spares since 2 cannons 1 missile is a good loadout for the knight.
Speaking of using existing bits and kits for AT, i'm waiting for someone to convert the Knight Castellan into an Imperator Titan. Based on this pic, it would be close enough in size if they build up the cathedral part of the Titan from where the shoulders are on the Castellan.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Huh. Stick a magnet on the bottom of some shieldbreaker missiles, and you have great stand ins for the warp missile rack on the warlord. And there tend to be spares since 2 cannons 1 missile is a good loadout for the knight.
Speaking of using existing bits and kits for AT, i'm waiting for someone to convert the Knight Castellan into an Imperator Titan. Based on this pic, it would be close enough in size if they build up the cathedral part of the Titan from where the shoulders are on the Castellan.
Spoiler:
I didn't realize the size differance was that small, for some reason I thought the Imperator was a LOT bigger, likely means that a Imeprator Mini isn't outside the realm of the possiable
Gitzbitah wrote: @ Overread- I'm streets behind! Awesome reference.
I think those worrying about support for Adeptus Titanicus are taking the wrong message away from this.
GW just sold out a bundle that cost almost 300 dollars at a much lower discount point than the bundles. Expect more product like this, priced like this in the future.
I predict, here and now, BFG will be upscaled and its price made equivalent to Adeptus Titanicus.
Upscaled BFG models of the same quality as the AT one would make that a must buy for me.
And all but that dreadnought and the Warlord are usuable in multiple systems by multiple factions. When I pay $150 for an Imperial Knight, I'm paying for the option to use it in many different ways, in many different venues. When I'm paying $110 for a AT Warlord Titan, I'm paying $110 to use it in a very niche game that I may or may not be able to find folks to play with.
That picture really means nothing.
What are these multiple systems that you're using knights in? You are prepared to pay extra for knights because you can also play renegade with them? Really?
Not to mention that your argument seems to be that the more niche a game is, the cheaper the models should be despite the economics of manufacturing driving the price in the opposite direction.
Gitzbitah wrote: @ Overread- I'm streets behind! Awesome reference.
I think those worrying about support for Adeptus Titanicus are taking the wrong message away from this.
GW just sold out a bundle that cost almost 300 dollars at a much lower discount point than the bundles. Expect more product like this, priced like this in the future.
I predict, here and now, BFG will be upscaled and its price made equivalent to Adeptus Titanicus.
Upscaled BFG models of the same quality as the AT one would make that a must buy for me.
And all but that dreadnought and the Warlord are usuable in multiple systems by multiple factions. When I pay $150 for an Imperial Knight, I'm paying for the option to use it in many different ways, in many different venues. When I'm paying $110 for a AT Warlord Titan, I'm paying $110 to use it in a very niche game that I may or may not be able to find folks to play with.
That picture really means nothing.
What are these multiple systems that you're using knights in? You are prepared to pay extra for knights because you can also play renegade with them? Really?
Not to mention that your argument seems to be that the more niche a game is, the cheaper the models should be despite the economics of manufacturing driving the price in the opposite direction.
Yeah as I said I was pleanetly suprised to see AT essentially priced like a 40k model, I FULLY expected to get hit with a "Speciality games tax"
vegeta365 wrote: Xenos is coming. The only thing stopping it is poor sales. Tony Cottrell said they would do the other races. It is Epic that is a ? I think it will definitely come as they deliberately sized the scale so that you could tell the difference in mk armour on a space marine but Tony did say that they are not making the mistake they did last time and rushing into Epic. It will be a long long way off.
6mm allows distinction of marks as well. Well at least 3rd parties can. Would be embarrassing for "best miniature makers in the world" as they self-style not be able to replicate what independent sculptor could do
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Azreal13 wrote: To make any assumptions about long term support based on two years of, occasional,y decidedly patchy, releases isn't a good idea.
Edit: Also, we're not talking ten years ago, were talking back into the last century, in the era of 2nd Ed 40K, Epic was a core game and stuff like Gorka Morka happened. Non-core games still operated on an essentially 12 month cycle.
'90's gorkamorka sales weren't particularly good though so not fair to use that as example...Hell GW nearly went down due to Gorkamorka sales being so bad.
That's not how I heard the tale. The story I was told was that GorkaMorka sold fine...in english. Unfortunately, GW had radically overestimated demand for localised versions and once all the unsold rules content in other languages had been pulped the release overall made a loss. So, like all the Specialist Games last time around(and WHF too), the only people stopping GW from making money with them was GW's own dumb decisions.
I think that's less likely these days because of the way they structure the dripfeed sales model and the fact that the present management at least give the appearance of valuing market research and consumer feedback, but anyone who thinks GW are done making dumb decisions forever is having a giggle. This time around though, I'd be less worried about sales and more worried about office politics - I very much doubt the "specialist games only detract from our 'core' lines and are the reason for any fiscal bumps 40K & [AoS] encounter" attitude has vanished from the studio, it certainly wansn't confined to Kirby last time around.
EDIT: I'll say that upscaling BFG would be a mistake. The models would already look fantastic with modern sculpting & casting techniques at their current size, and while a game like AT which is focused on maniple vs maniple engagements can survive having its scale bumped up, BFG is supposed to be a game about fleets of ships clashing; if they were to up the scale by anything more than a token amount intended as an "up yours" to people who own existing models, it would radically reduce the scope of the game to squadron vs squadron engagements, at which point it would just be AT with different models and a coat of paint.
vegeta365 wrote: Xenos is coming. The only thing stopping it is poor sales. Tony Cottrell said they would do the other races. It is Epic that is a ? I think it will definitely come as they deliberately sized the scale so that you could tell the difference in mk armour on a space marine but Tony did say that they are not making the mistake they did last time and rushing into Epic. It will be a long long way off.
6mm allows distinction of marks as well. Well at least 3rd parties can. Would be embarrassing for "best miniature makers in the world" as they self-style not be able to replicate what independent sculptor could do
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Azreal13 wrote: To make any assumptions about long term support based on two years of, occasional,y decidedly patchy, releases isn't a good idea.
Edit: Also, we're not talking ten years ago, were talking back into the last century, in the era of 2nd Ed 40K, Epic was a core game and stuff like Gorka Morka happened. Non-core games still operated on an essentially 12 month cycle.
'90's gorkamorka sales weren't particularly good though so not fair to use that as example...Hell GW nearly went down due to Gorkamorka sales being so bad.
That's not how I heard the tale. The story I was told was that GorkaMorka sold fine...in english. Unfortunately, GW had radically overestimated demand for localised versions and once all the unsold rules content in other languages had been pulped the release overall made a loss. So, like all the Specialist Games last time around(and WHF too), the only people stopping GW from making money with them was GW's own dumb decisions.
I think that's less likely these days because of the way they structure the dripfeed sales model and the fact that the present management at least give the appearance of valuing market research and consumer feedback, but anyone who thinks GW are done making dumb decisions forever is having a giggle. This time around though, I'd be less worried about sales and more worried about office politics - I very much doubt the "specialist games only detract from our 'core' lines and are the reason for any fiscal bumps 40K & [AoS] encounter" attitude has vanished from the studio, it certainly wansn't confined to Kirby last time around.
EDIT: I'll say that upscaling BFG would be a mistake. The models would already look fantastic with modern sculpting & casting techniques at their current size, and while a game like AT which is focused on maniple vs maniple engagements can survive having its scale bumped up, BFG is supposed to be a game about fleets of ships clashing; if they were to up the scale by anything more than a token amount intended as an "up yours" to people who own existing models, it would radically reduce the scope of the game to squadron vs squadron engagements, at which point it would just be AT with different models and a coat of paint.
depends how it's done, generally speaking I see elements of BFG in AT, the Warlord is our Battleship. Reavers are cruisers, warhounds our light cruisers, and knights are our escorts. so I suspect AT is going in part of be used as a "learning experiance" for a future BFG game
vegeta365 wrote: Xenos is coming. The only thing stopping it is poor sales. Tony Cottrell said they would do the other races. It is Epic that is a ? I think it will definitely come as they deliberately sized the scale so that you could tell the difference in mk armour on a space marine but Tony did say that they are not making the mistake they did last time and rushing into Epic. It will be a long long way off.
6mm allows distinction of marks as well. Well at least 3rd parties can. Would be embarrassing for "best miniature makers in the world" as they self-style not be able to replicate what independent sculptor could do
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Azreal13 wrote: To make any assumptions about long term support based on two years of, occasional,y decidedly patchy, releases isn't a good idea.
Edit: Also, we're not talking ten years ago, were talking back into the last century, in the era of 2nd Ed 40K, Epic was a core game and stuff like Gorka Morka happened. Non-core games still operated on an essentially 12 month cycle.
'90's gorkamorka sales weren't particularly good though so not fair to use that as example...Hell GW nearly went down due to Gorkamorka sales being so bad.
That's not how I heard the tale. The story I was told was that GorkaMorka sold fine...in english. Unfortunately, GW had radically overestimated demand for localised versions and once all the unsold rules content in other languages had been pulped the release overall made a loss. So, like all the Specialist Games last time around(and WHF too), the only people stopping GW from making money with them was GW's own dumb decisions.
I think that's less likely these days because of the way they structure the dripfeed sales model and the fact that the present management at least give the appearance of valuing market research and consumer feedback, but anyone who thinks GW are done making dumb decisions forever is having a giggle. This time around though, I'd be less worried about sales and more worried about office politics - I very much doubt the "specialist games only detract from our 'core' lines and are the reason for any fiscal bumps 40K & [AoS] encounter" attitude has vanished from the studio, it certainly wansn't confined to Kirby last time around.
EDIT: I'll say that upscaling BFG would be a mistake. The models would already look fantastic with modern sculpting & casting techniques at their current size, and while a game like AT which is focused on maniple vs maniple engagements can survive having its scale bumped up, BFG is supposed to be a game about fleets of ships clashing; if they were to up the scale by anything more than a token amount intended as an "up yours" to people who own existing models, it would radically reduce the scope of the game to squadron vs squadron engagements, at which point it would just be AT with different models and a coat of paint.
I'm sure it wasn't confined to Kirby, but with both him and Alan Merret gone... The wargaming market is different, the specialist games team is different, GW/FWs internal organization is different, the release schedule is different, the leadership is different. Personally I wouldn't consider their previous behaviour to be any sort of indicator of future behaviour for these reasons. Especially that last one. So I see no reason to expect the worst.
RobertDD wrote: I've been looking at the knight sprues and I can't figure out whether they have slots for magnetizing. It looks like the arms should be swappable pretty easily.
Does anyone know? if they do, what size magnets would they take?
I assembled a set of knights last knight. It's doable but will take some drilling and fiddling about. No slots for magnets on the knights.
I think you could get away with drilling a 2 or 3mm hole into each side of the knights body and magnetizing it that way.
The Warlord has dual size magnet slots ny the way. A 1*5mm slot top and bottom, and then a 1*3mm hole in the middle of that. So either 1*5mm or 2*3mm magnets should fit. I used 1*5mm and the arms stay on nicely.
RobertDD wrote: I've been looking at the knight sprues and I can't figure out whether they have slots for magnetizing. It looks like the arms should be swappable pretty easily.
Does anyone know? if they do, what size magnets would they take?
I assembled a set of knights last knight. It's doable but will take some drilling and fiddling about. No slots for magnets on the knights.
I think you could get away with drilling a 2 or 3mm hole into each side of the knights body and magnetizing it that way.
The Warlord has dual size magnet slots ny the way. A 1*5mm slot top and bottom, and then a 1*3mm hole in the middle of that. So either 1*5mm or 2*3mm magnets should fit. I used 1*5mm and the arms stay on nicely.
In order to reduce the number of magnets used (and associated costs), the guy uses magnets on the "fixed" part and cut steel nails on the exchangeable parts.
I'm planning on having a look to see if this can be replicated for AT models.
I'd actually be cool with there being not too many additional releases for AT. The triad of Titans slated for release and the weapons that have cards for them should make for a nicely balanced game. More releases - which means more funky special rules and one-upmanship - could easily cause the game to bloat and become unbalanced.
As long as they keep selling the stuff they're releasing now I'd be much happier with things like campaign books.
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tneva82 wrote: Hehe saw the knight models yesterday on sprue. Cute tiny buggers. Is my wallet in trouble if GW puts out game I want where I can use these...
This game doesn't really need some kind of mass model expansions. I think there might be a place for cerastus knights, or a single porphyrion. And they could re invent 1 or 2 titan classes to bring back in. But the warlord/reaver/warhound should probably remain the staple of the game. A campaign book with more legio rules, a couple new battlefield assets would be cool.
I hope they get those transfer sheets out relatively soon though, especially for tempestus and krytos the latter of which has some really cool iconography.
The £50 Crusader / Errant seems like a glaringly convenient omission.
Please tell me you're not referring to Knight: Renegade. You know that's would be disingenuous, right?
No not really. I have 2 wardens and 2 crusaders, I think the wardens cost me £52.50 each and the Crusaders £42.50 each. I was being generous by bumping up a bit. I pretty sure wouldn't have bought any of them if they'd cost a total of £320 (as opposed to £190). I'm being completely genuine. The price of minis are often broken down this way. I think the Tempestus Scions are crazy priced, but I'm considering the "Start collecting Tempestus" and ebaying what I don't want. I probably won't. But I did this for the knights - bought two Crusaders (that had been split from IKR), then somehow managed to find two copies of the game, and ebayed my freshly bought Crusaders. GW said IKR was not limited and "Available forever" or some such (which was a bit disingenuous, because when I was ready to buy, 99% of 3rd party retailers were OOS and couldn't give a time for restock), so it's not unreasonable to consider these prices to be a very realistic option. I wouldn't apply the same logic to AT GME because of the overall bundle of stuff (books, scenery etc - I'm actually counting the IKR scenery as a freebie. I guess you could go further and say the Knights from the set cost £47.50 and £37.50, but I won't go that far as the scenery is insignificant to me. I might ebay it, I might paint it, I'll probably put it in a box and forget about it).
Thargrim wrote: This game doesn't really need some kind of mass model expansions. I think there might be a place for cerastus knights, or a single porphyrion. And they could re invent 1 or 2 titan classes to bring back in. But the warlord/reaver/warhound should probably remain the staple of the game. A campaign book with more legio rules, a couple new battlefield assets would be cool.
I hope they get those transfer sheets out relatively soon though, especially for tempestus and krytos the latter of which has some really cool iconography.
AT is definitely something with room to grow organically. There are a few approaches they can take:
Terrain & objectives (wrecked titans would be pretty cool to see)
Legion transfer sheets
Rarer weapons or units (porphyrion, psi-titans)
Late-heresy mutated chaos titans & knights
Expanding the Titan background with previously mentioned 'precursor' titans
Ork and Eldar xenos expansions
All of these can be done to add variety without messing with the core game structure. I think if sales are still strong once the range matures to a certain point, we'll see Epic but as a new rule set with less focus on titan micro-management. AT will still be it's own game.
The £50 Crusader / Errant seems like a glaringly convenient omission.
Please tell me you're not referring to Knight: Renegade. You know that's would be disingenuous, right?
No not really. I have 2 wardens and 2 crusaders, I think the wardens cost me £52.50 each and the Crusaders £42.50 each. I was being generous by bumping up a bit. I pretty sure wouldn't have bought any of them if they'd cost a total of £320 (as opposed to £190). I'm being completely genuine. The price of minis are often broken down this way. I think the Tempestus Scions are crazy priced, but I'm considering the "Start collecting Tempestus" and ebaying what I don't want. I probably won't. But I did this for the knights - bought two Crusaders (that had been split from IKR), then somehow managed to find two copies of the game, and ebayed my freshly bought Crusaders. GW said IKR was not limited and "Available forever" or some such (which was a bit disingenuous, because when I was ready to buy, 99% of 3rd party retailers were OOS and couldn't give a time for restock), so it's not unreasonable to consider these prices to be a very realistic option. I wouldn't apply the same logic to AT GME because of the overall bundle of stuff (books, scenery etc - I'm actually counting the IKR scenery as a freebie. I guess you could go further and say the Knights from the set cost £47.50 and £37.50, but I won't go that far as the scenery is insignificant to me. I might ebay it, I might paint it, I'll probably put it in a box and forget about it).
In that case Warlord Titans are £25 each thanks to the GME box (£175 minus the Knights, buildings and rules leaves £50 left over). That makes them the cheapest large GW walker and therefore the best value!
GME is still available on the Aussie GW webstore, should anyone be desperate enough to venture there.
No surprise really, given the pricing...
By way of comparison, a single Warlord is 65 GBP on the UK webstore, which at the current exchange rate should be about $115 AUD.
Actual price of the lone Warlord on Oz GW: $180 AUD.
Tell 'em they're dreaming!
For the price of one Warlord, I could pick up the FFG boardgame Star Wars Rebellion, which is a complete game--and one of the best two-player games I've ever played.
Will be picking up the rules set for Titanicus, but it looks like we'll be playing with old Epic minis for the foreseeable future. Simply can't justify spending that much on plastic models, even at a FLGS discount, especially as we'd need two opposing forces.
Things may change when the Reaver and Warhound come out.
Still, pleased it's selling well overseas. Bodes well for the game's future.
As others have said, I reckon the Reaver would have been a better choice to sell up front--it's the equivalent of a standard cruiser in BFG, whereas the Warlord is the centrepiece battleship. But then again, the Warlord is so iconic (having featured in the first AT box) that I can see why they chose it.
I hope the Reaver's base is wide enough to allow for the classic splay-legged pose, though. Or that we can stick it on a Warlord-sized base to give it room. I don't much like the 'hello, I'll be your waiter for this evening' upright stance I've seen in the photos so far.
Anyway... if they've future-proofed the game for Epic, then that's great--because even if they never get around to adding it, the fans can do it for them.
I look forward to the day when they release a new Epic Redux range and expand the game system to accommodate tanks and infantry. Until the game becomes so complicated and crunchy that they have to get Jervis to drastically streamline it. At which point the players rebel because Epic Redux 41,000 has lost all its flavour, and the game crashes and burns. Then Jervis can eat humble pie and release Epic Redux Armageddon, but instead of re-re-releasing all the major races, it will feature Feral Tyranid Tiamat Swarms and Exodite Eldar on dinosaurs. And so the great cycle of life wheels onward.
But the big question causing me sleepless nights... the question nobody's asked yet... the Imperator in the room...
My local Store confirmed he received the Box today. I'm so exited for saturday.
Three days to decide for a Legion. I'm struggling between Legio Atarus, Tempestus and Gryphonicus. Does anyone know, if any of these Legions played a role in the Siege of Terra? I wanna play a Legion for the whole heresy. Atarus is known for Istavaan V, but i can not find any Information about further action in the War.
It seems playing Traitor Legions is a lot easier in Horus Heresy... Legio Mortis was present at any battle. Maybe it's safer, to go the traitor way... Death to the false Emperor.
Thargrim wrote: This game doesn't really need some kind of mass model expansions. I think there might be a place for cerastus knights, or a single porphyrion. And they could re invent 1 or 2 titan classes to bring back in. But the warlord/reaver/warhound should probably remain the staple of the game. A campaign book with more legio rules, a couple new battlefield assets would be cool.
I hope they get those transfer sheets out relatively soon though, especially for tempestus and krytos the latter of which has some really cool iconography.
AT is definitely something with room to grow organically. There are a few approaches they can take:
Terrain & objectives (wrecked titans would be pretty cool to see)
Legion transfer sheets
Rarer weapons or units (porphyrion, psi-titans)
Late-heresy mutated chaos titans & knights
Expanding the Titan background with previously mentioned 'precursor' titans
Ork and Eldar xenos expansions
All of these can be done to add variety without messing with the core game structure. I think if sales are still strong once the range matures to a certain point, we'll see Epic but as a new rule set with less focus on titan micro-management. AT will still be it's own game.
The £50 Crusader / Errant seems like a glaringly convenient omission.
Please tell me you're not referring to Knight: Renegade. You know that's would be disingenuous, right?
No not really. I have 2 wardens and 2 crusaders, I think the wardens cost me £52.50 each and the Crusaders £42.50 each. I was being generous by bumping up a bit. I pretty sure wouldn't have bought any of them if they'd cost a total of £320 (as opposed to £190). I'm being completely genuine. The price of minis are often broken down this way. I think the Tempestus Scions are crazy priced, but I'm considering the "Start collecting Tempestus" and ebaying what I don't want. I probably won't. But I did this for the knights - bought two Crusaders (that had been split from IKR), then somehow managed to find two copies of the game, and ebayed my freshly bought Crusaders. GW said IKR was not limited and "Available forever" or some such (which was a bit disingenuous, because when I was ready to buy, 99% of 3rd party retailers were OOS and couldn't give a time for restock), so it's not unreasonable to consider these prices to be a very realistic option. I wouldn't apply the same logic to AT GME because of the overall bundle of stuff (books, scenery etc - I'm actually counting the IKR scenery as a freebie. I guess you could go further and say the Knights from the set cost £47.50 and £37.50, but I won't go that far as the scenery is insignificant to me. I might ebay it, I might paint it, I'll probably put it in a box and forget about it).
In that case Warlord Titans are £25 each thanks to the GME box (£175 minus the Knights, buildings and rules leaves £50 left over). That makes them the cheapest large GW walker and therefore the best value!
(yes this is how bad your logic is)
No need to be unpleasant mate. I already said I don't value the rules or scenery. I suppose you didn't read that part. This won't be the case for everyone but I'm certainly not unique. GW are even pushing this as an aspect of AT (aimed at collectors etc etc). I won't call you stupid for having a contrary opinion to mine, as you have deemed appropriate. But I disagree. And why are you valuing the box sans warlord at £175? Is this the individually rrp of each other bit, sold separately? Why not spread the ATGM "value" equally across all components, instead of leaving the Warlords out? Do that maths instead. And while you're at it, get an rrp for the IKR rules and scenery, and apply the same maths to the IKR box. Just to be completely fair. And Logical.
BrianDavion wrote: -snip-
depends how it's done, generally speaking I see elements of BFG in AT, the Warlord is our Battleship. Reavers are cruisers, warhounds our light cruisers, and knights are our escorts. so I suspect AT is going in part of be used as a "learning experiance" for a future BFG game
But that's exactly my point - games of AT are only rarely going to go above 10 or 12 "units" on the table in total for both sides, while in BFG one player's fleet would often be more than that. It's all very well to say as Scott does that the actual size of the model didn't matter in BFG, and from a rules perspective that's true in that the stem was what mattered, but battleships were already what, five inches long, a bit more? Cruisers 3 or 4 inches? Make the models much bigger than that and owning what would be a fleet in classic BFG would be both prohibitively expensive and would be impractical to actually play. I'm not that fussed about older models since I sold most of mine years back and frankly would be buying new fleets anyway to paint up in Legion colours, it's the impact on the actual game that concerns me.
The "experience" for AT is as the lead Princeps commanding a maniple of Titans, but the "experience" for BFG is supposed to be that of an Admiral commanding a whole fleet, and that experience is best preserved by keeping the models about the same size they were before.
I'm sure it wasn't confined to Kirby, but with both him and Alan Merret gone... The wargaming market is different, the specialist games team is different, GW/FWs internal organization is different, the release schedule is different, the leadership is different. Personally I wouldn't consider their previous behaviour to be any sort of indicator of future behaviour for these reasons. Especially that last one. So I see no reason to expect the worst.
Fair enough, but there's one thing that isn't different, GW's "culture", and it's that which makes me hesitant to ever get fully on board with any hype trains - I don't immediately expect the worst any more, but I won't take anything on faith until they have a lot more years of "changed" behaviour under their belt.
Aexcaliber wrote: My local Store confirmed he received the Box today. I'm so exited for saturday.
Three days to decide for a Legion. I'm struggling between Legio Atarus, Tempestus and Gryphonicus. Does anyone know, if any of these Legions played a role in the Siege of Terra? I wanna play a Legion for the whole heresy. Atarus is known for Istavaan V, but i can not find any Information about further action in the War.
It seems playing Traitor Legions is a lot easier in Horus Heresy... Legio Mortis was present at any battle. Maybe it's safer, to go the traitor way... Death to the false Emperor.
according to Lexnicium 3 titan legions where among the loyalists on Terra. of those only the Legio Ignatum was named. If you're willing to wait until december to paint we MIGHT have more infomation come Titanfall. It sounds like the offical history is that the titan legions just about ground themselves into dust on Beta-Garmon.
Bill King wrote:The palace was not the only bastion of resistance. There were others; each an awesome fortified city filled with dauntless soldiers. Beneath their Fortress Monastery, grim-visaged Rogal Dorn led the stern Imperial Fists in final prayers. Within the armoured factory complexes of the Adeptus Mechanicus, techpriests put aside their tools and girded on the fearsome weapons of their order. In the rubble of burned-out hab-areas Primarch Jhagatai Khan mustered the White Scars, the Chapter of Space Marines he had personally instructed in the art of lightning warfare. Three full Titan legions stood ready to defend their Emperor.
Soon the defenders of Eternity Wall Space Port had been swept aside by the merciless assault and the hordes of the Warmaster were in total possession of the spacefield. More and more intricately wrought dropships descended from orbit. They towered over the landing ground like nightmare skyscrapers. The dark runes on their sides glowed evilly in the gloom. Hundred-metre high doors opened in their kilometre long sides. From their red depths Titans, ten times the height of a man, emerged. They were warped giants; the armour of their carapace fused and moulded into new shapes by the power of Chaos. Within them were men melded to their machines. Some of the hideous Titans had strange and potent weapons, others were a bizarre hybrid of the organic and the machine. Metal tentacles lashed, spiked tails whipped back and forth. Engines roared like the voices of angry beasts. Banners fluttering, the Titans of Storm Lords and the Flaming Skulls legions marched forth. At Lions Gate Space Port the traitors welcomed the towering black war engines of the Khornate host. Minotaurs and trolls and cultists seethed like angry ants around their bases.
Day by day the siege wore on, casualties rose from the thousands to tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands. Bodies had to be bulldozed from the access ways to the Saturnine Gate by war machines. Chaos Titans blazed at the walls, specially constructed missiles ripping great chunks from the masonry. The Titans of the Fire Wasps answered their fire with volcano cannons. The smell of burning flesh filled the air as the corpses of the dead were incinerated in funeral pyres a hundred foot high. Obscene ash parched the throats of the defenders. The World Eaters built a pyramid of scorched skulls sixty foot high in Temple Square. By night the chants of degenerate cultists echoed through the streets and daemons flitted among the ruins of Earth.
Slowly, foot by torturous foot, the defenders were forced back. The great walls of the palace were riddled with hundreds of kilometres of bulkheads and corridor. Within this maze hand to hand fighting ensued till entire sections of passage were filled with bloated corpses. Feeling progress was too slow, Horus ordered Titans of the Death's Head Legion to demolish entire sections of the wall. Despite taking tremendous casualties the great Warlord Titans broke through, and the forces of the Warmaster flooded into the palace grounds.
So, on the Imperial side there's the Fire Wasps (Legio Ignatum) and two others. On the traitor side, the Death's Heads (Legio Mortis), Storm Lords (Legio Tempestus) and the Flaming Skulls.
Two Fire Wasps titans are the gate guards for the Eternity Gate of the Imperial Palace.
Until the Black Library get there, that's the definitive list, I think.
Aexcaliber wrote: My local Store confirmed he received the Box today. I'm so exited for saturday.
Three days to decide for a Legion. I'm struggling between Legio Atarus, Tempestus and Gryphonicus. Does anyone know, if any of these Legions played a role in the Siege of Terra? I wanna play a Legion for the whole heresy. Atarus is known for Istavaan V, but i can not find any Information about further action in the War.
It seems playing Traitor Legions is a lot easier in Horus Heresy... Legio Mortis was present at any battle. Maybe it's safer, to go the traitor way... Death to the false Emperor.
according to Lexnicium 3 titan legions where among the loyalists on Terra. of those only the Legio Ignatum was named. If you're willing to wait until december to paint we MIGHT have more infomation come Titanfall. It sounds like the offical history is that the titan legions just about ground themselves into dust on Beta-Garmon.
Bill King wrote:The palace was not the only bastion of resistance. There were others; each an awesome fortified city filled with dauntless soldiers. Beneath their Fortress Monastery, grim-visaged Rogal Dorn led the stern Imperial Fists in final prayers. Within the armoured factory complexes of the Adeptus Mechanicus, techpriests put aside their tools and girded on the fearsome weapons of their order. In the rubble of burned-out hab-areas Primarch Jhagatai Khan mustered the White Scars, the Chapter of Space Marines he had personally instructed in the art of lightning warfare. Three full Titan legions stood ready to defend their Emperor.
Soon the defenders of Eternity Wall Space Port had been swept aside by the merciless assault and the hordes of the Warmaster were in total possession of the spacefield. More and more intricately wrought dropships descended from orbit. They towered over the landing ground like nightmare skyscrapers. The dark runes on their sides glowed evilly in the gloom. Hundred-metre high doors opened in their kilometre long sides. From their red depths Titans, ten times the height of a man, emerged. They were warped giants; the armour of their carapace fused and moulded into new shapes by the power of Chaos. Within them were men melded to their machines. Some of the hideous Titans had strange and potent weapons, others were a bizarre hybrid of the organic and the machine. Metal tentacles lashed, spiked tails whipped back and forth. Engines roared like the voices of angry beasts. Banners fluttering, the Titans of Storm Lords and the Flaming Skulls legions marched forth. At Lions Gate Space Port the traitors welcomed the towering black war engines of the Khornate host. Minotaurs and trolls and cultists seethed like angry ants around their bases.
Day by day the siege wore on, casualties rose from the thousands to tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands. Bodies had to be bulldozed from the access ways to the Saturnine Gate by war machines. Chaos Titans blazed at the walls, specially constructed missiles ripping great chunks from the masonry. The Titans of the Fire Wasps answered their fire with volcano cannons. The smell of burning flesh filled the air as the corpses of the dead were incinerated in funeral pyres a hundred foot high. Obscene ash parched the throats of the defenders. The World Eaters built a pyramid of scorched skulls sixty foot high in Temple Square. By night the chants of degenerate cultists echoed through the streets and daemons flitted among the ruins of Earth.
Slowly, foot by torturous foot, the defenders were forced back. The great walls of the palace were riddled with hundreds of kilometres of bulkheads and corridor. Within this maze hand to hand fighting ensued till entire sections of passage were filled with bloated corpses. Feeling progress was too slow, Horus ordered Titans of the Death's Head Legion to demolish entire sections of the wall. Despite taking tremendous casualties the great Warlord Titans broke through, and the forces of the Warmaster flooded into the palace grounds.
So, on the Imperial side there's the Fire Wasps (Legio Ignatum) and two others. On the traitor side, the Death's Heads (Legio Mortis), Storm Lords (Legio Tempestus) and the Flaming Skulls.
Two Fire Wasps titans are the gate guards for the Eternity Gate of the Imperial Palace.
Until the Black Library get there, that's the definitive list, I think.
yeah, Black Library I think'll finallyl get there next year, with titanfall in december, they're in position to begin the final battle...... assuming they don't waste the next few years n the unimportant adventures of bob of the random legion, fapping about the universe.
Have you ever read the other short story about the final showdown, where it describes the injuries sustained by the Emperor? His eyeball bursts etc. It's from around the same period. Not as good as the Bill King one but I'd like to read it again and I can't find it anywhere.
So, on the Imperial side there's the Fire Wasps (Legio Ignatum) and two others. On the traitor side, the Death's Heads (Legio Mortis), Storm Lords (Legio Tempestus) and the Flaming Skulls.
Two Fire Wasps titans are the gate guards for the Eternity Gate of the Imperial Palace.
Until the Black Library get there, that's the definitive list, I think.
See, this is why I think they need AT to help finish off the Heresy storyline. The most apocalyptic battles in the history of the imperium need as many giant robbits as possible.
Plus would you rather buy Forgeworld fortress walls in 8mm scale or 28mm scale?
No need to be unpleasant mate. I already said I don't value the rules or scenery. I suppose you didn't read that part. This won't be the case for everyone but I'm certainly not unique. GW are even pushing this as an aspect of AT (aimed at collectors etc etc). I won't call you stupid for having a contrary opinion to mine, as you have deemed appropriate. But I disagree. And why are you valuing the box sans warlord at £175? Is this the individually rrp of each other bit, sold separately? Why not spread the ATGM "value" equally across all components, instead of leaving the Warlords out? Do that maths instead. And while you're at it, get an rrp for the IKR rules and scenery, and apply the same maths to the IKR box. Just to be completely fair. And Logical.
/Edit - quotes
You're arguing in bad faith by equating a product not even released yet with one out long enough to get not one but two discounted bundle boxes. IKR wasn't available on release of the Knight kit, just like there are no discounted maniple boxes on day 1 of the Warlord. Why would GW heavily discount a single product on day 1 when demand is highest? That's just bad marketing. Maybe in a year or two you'll have a point, but do you honestly think we won't get AT discount boxes in time?
And if you find people disagreeing with on the Internet 'unpleasant' perhaps you shouldn't derail discussions with galaxy-brain takes like "old products get better discounts than new products!!!! bad deal!!!!"
So, on the Imperial side there's the Fire Wasps (Legio Ignatum) and two others. On the traitor side, the Death's Heads (Legio Mortis), Storm Lords (Legio Tempestus) and the Flaming Skulls.
Two Fire Wasps titans are the gate guards for the Eternity Gate of the Imperial Palace.
Until the Black Library get there, that's the definitive list, I think.
See, this is why I think they need AT to help finish off the Heresy storyline. The most apocalyptic battles in the history of the imperium need as many giant robbits as possible.
Plus would you rather buy Forgeworld fortress walls in 8mm scale or 28mm scale?
No need to be unpleasant mate. I already said I don't value the rules or scenery. I suppose you didn't read that part. This won't be the case for everyone but I'm certainly not unique. GW are even pushing this as an aspect of AT (aimed at collectors etc etc). I won't call you stupid for having a contrary opinion to mine, as you have deemed appropriate. But I disagree. And why are you valuing the box sans warlord at £175? Is this the individually rrp of each other bit, sold separately? Why not spread the ATGM "value" equally across all components, instead of leaving the Warlords out? Do that maths instead. And while you're at it, get an rrp for the IKR rules and scenery, and apply the same maths to the IKR box. Just to be completely fair. And Logical.
/Edit - quotes
You're arguing in bad faith by equating a product not even released yet with one out long enough to get not one but two discounted bundle boxes. IKR wasn't available on release of the Knight kit, just like there are no discounted maniple boxes on day 1 of the Warlord. Why would GW heavily discount a single product on day 1 when demand is highest? That's just bad marketing. Maybe in a year or two you'll have a point, but do you honestly think we won't get AT discount boxes in time?
And if you find people disagreeing with on the Internet 'unpleasant' perhaps you shouldn't derail discussions with galaxy-brain takes like "old products get better discounts than new products!!!! bad deal!!!!"
Some people can disagree with one another w/o strongly implying the other is a dumbass. Which you've just done again. Meh. That's your problem, not mine. Good luck with the attitude though (see, this is where I'm implying that you're a....choose whatever pejorative you want based on my response. Though I really shouldn't presuppose anything about you based on our extremely limited interactions. I feel compelled right now though, probably will regret it in about 10 minutes. Hopefully a mod will delete this comment). Could you do the maths for me though, as a favour? (Then maybe DIVIDE the final price of the warlords by about,,,0.75, to be generous to the Warlords, based on the volume of Warlords and the volume of the IKR Knights, in comparison to the respective bundles they're sold with - the AT box being half rules / terrain and half Miniatures, the IKR box being 75%+ Big Robots).
Have you ever read the other short story about the final showdown, where it describes the injuries sustained by the Emperor? His eyeball bursts etc. It's from around the same period. Not as good as the Bill King one but I'd like to read it again and I can't find it anywhere.
You mean the one that's on the very same page I linked to? And is also written by Bill King? (the story of the Emperor facing Horus was written first - published in Realm of Chaos - The Lost and the Damned and also in WD 129).
That's the story that retcons out Ollanius Pius (who was never mentioned in the original story of that confrontation, in Realm of CHaos - Slaves to Darkness; only in the caption to the painting used for the box set of plastic Imperial Guard, as published in an earlier WD and in the Warhammer 40,000 Compendium) in favour of an Imperial Fists terminator, and moved the action from a bunker on Earth to Horus' ship. When the story was reprinted in the Horus Heresy - Collected Visions book, the Terminator himself was replaced by a Custodes.
BrookM wrote: Are we talking about titans here or something else altogether now..?
talking about fiction of the siege of terra. I think one of the rules of the internet is that any 40k conversation will inevitably become a discussion of how much we'd like to see BL finally writye about the god damned siege
Have you ever read the other short story about the final showdown, where it describes the injuries sustained by the Emperor? His eyeball bursts etc. It's from around the same period. Not as good as the Bill King one but I'd like to read it again and I can't find it anywhere.
You mean the one that's on the very same page I linked to? And is also written by Bill King? (the story of the Emperor facing Horus was written first - published in Realm of Chaos - The Lost and the Damned and also in WD 129).
That's the story that retcons out Ollanius Pius (who was never mentioned in the original story of that confrontation, in Realm of CHaos - Slaves to Darkness; only in the caption to the painting used for the box set of plastic Imperial Guard, as published in an earlier WD and in the Warhammer 40,000 Compendium) in favour of an Imperial Fists terminator, and moved the action from a bunker on Earth to Horus' ship. When the story was reprinted in the Horus Heresy - Collected Visions book, the Terminator himself was replaced by a Custodes.
Sorry, didn't click the link! I didn't even notice it. I've read the Bill King story so many times, I slipped into some sort of nostalgic blindness Didn't realise the other one was also by King though.
BrookM wrote: Are we talking about titans here or something else altogether now..?
talking about fiction of the siege of terra. I think one of the rules of the internet is that any 40k conversation will inevitably become a discussion of how much we'd like to see BL finally writye about the god damned siege
Were there any Titans present at the Siege of Terra though??? I think that could be the crucial difference between on / off topic in regards to this discussion.
Saying that (possibly OT, more baseless speculation / wishful thinking), it would be nice to see some sort of AT Emperor's Palace terrain piece eventually released. Kind of like that big 28mm display they have at WH world.
Aexcaliber wrote: My local Store confirmed he received the Box today. I'm so exited for saturday.
Three days to decide for a Legion. I'm struggling between Legio Atarus, Tempestus and Gryphonicus. Does anyone know, if any of these Legions played a role in the Siege of Terra? I wanna play a Legion for the whole heresy. Atarus is known for Istavaan V, but i can not find any Information about further action in the War.
It seems playing Traitor Legions is a lot easier in Horus Heresy... Legio Mortis was present at any battle. Maybe it's safer, to go the traitor way... Death to the false Emperor.
according to Lexnicium 3 titan legions where among the loyalists on Terra. of those only the Legio Ignatum was named. If you're willing to wait until december to paint we MIGHT have more infomation come Titanfall. It sounds like the offical history is that the titan legions just about ground themselves into dust on Beta-Garmon.
I wonder if Ordo Sinister would be considered one of the 3 loyalist Titan Legions? Given that Warp Weapons already have rules (they basically ignore Void Shields) it would be interesting to see if they do Psi Titan weaponry in the future.
Aexcaliber wrote: My local Store confirmed he received the Box today. I'm so exited for saturday.
Three days to decide for a Legion. I'm struggling between Legio Atarus, Tempestus and Gryphonicus. Does anyone know, if any of these Legions played a role in the Siege of Terra? I wanna play a Legion for the whole heresy. Atarus is known for Istavaan V, but i can not find any Information about further action in the War.
It seems playing Traitor Legions is a lot easier in Horus Heresy... Legio Mortis was present at any battle. Maybe it's safer, to go the traitor way... Death to the false Emperor.
according to Lexnicium 3 titan legions where among the loyalists on Terra. of those only the Legio Ignatum was named. If you're willing to wait until december to paint we MIGHT have more infomation come Titanfall. It sounds like the offical history is that the titan legions just about ground themselves into dust on Beta-Garmon.
I wonder if Ordo Sinister would be considered one of the 3 loyalist Titan Legions? Given that Warp Weapons already have rules (they basically ignore Void Shields) it would be interesting to see if they do Psi Titan weaponry in the future.
They aaaaare based on Terra but my gut tells me they're not coutned as being one of the three.
So, on the Imperial side there's the Fire Wasps (Legio Ignatum) and two others. On the traitor side, the Death's Heads (Legio Mortis), Storm Lords (Legio Tempestus) and the Flaming Skulls.
Two Fire Wasps titans are the gate guards for the Eternity Gate of the Imperial Palace.
Until the Black Library get there, that's the definitive list, I think.
See, this is why I think they need AT to help finish off the Heresy storyline. The most apocalyptic battles in the history of the imperium need as many giant robbits as possible.
Plus would you rather buy Forgeworld fortress walls in 8mm scale or 28mm scale?
No need to be unpleasant mate. I already said I don't value the rules or scenery. I suppose you didn't read that part. This won't be the case for everyone but I'm certainly not unique. GW are even pushing this as an aspect of AT (aimed at collectors etc etc). I won't call you stupid for having a contrary opinion to mine, as you have deemed appropriate. But I disagree. And why are you valuing the box sans warlord at £175? Is this the individually rrp of each other bit, sold separately? Why not spread the ATGM "value" equally across all components, instead of leaving the Warlords out? Do that maths instead. And while you're at it, get an rrp for the IKR rules and scenery, and apply the same maths to the IKR box. Just to be completely fair. And Logical.
/Edit - quotes
You're arguing in bad faith by equating a product not even released yet with one out long enough to get not one but two discounted bundle boxes. IKR wasn't available on release of the Knight kit, just like there are no discounted maniple boxes on day 1 of the Warlord. Why would GW heavily discount a single product on day 1 when demand is highest? That's just bad marketing. Maybe in a year or two you'll have a point, but do you honestly think we won't get AT discount boxes in time?
And if you find people disagreeing with on the Internet 'unpleasant' perhaps you shouldn't derail discussions with galaxy-brain takes like "old products get better discounts than new products!!!! bad deal!!!!"
Some people can disagree with one another w/o strongly implying the other is a dumbass. Which you've just done again. Meh. That's your problem, not mine. Good luck with the attitude though (see, this is where I'm implying that you're a....choose whatever pejorative you want based on my response. Though I really shouldn't presuppose anything about you based on our extremely limited interactions. I feel compelled right now though, probably will regret it in about 10 minutes. Hopefully a mod will delete this comment). Could you do the maths for me though, as a favour? (Then maybe multiply the final price of the warlords by about,,,0.75, to be generous to the Warlords, based on the volume of Warlords and the volume of the IKR Knights, in comparison to the respective bundles they're sold with - the AT box being half rules / terrain and half Miniatures, the IKR box being 75%+ Big Robots).
The problem is that your argument doesn't have a leg to stand on. That image was directly comparing the price of models sold separately against each other and you asked where the £50 Crusader/Errant was. However, the Crusader/Errant box catagorically does not cost £50 but £85, only 10 less than the Warden/Galant box, and is direct only from GW anyway. That you got yours for £50 by braking down the discount Knight Renegade box is extremely disingenuous and doesn't remotely reflect the actual cost of buying he model singularly, I mean I could claim I got mine for the cost of 5 Blood Angel Terminators and a Deathg Company Dreadnaut becaus thats what I swapped for it, but thats not what it actually costs to buy.
Thargrim wrote: But the warlord/reaver/warhound should probably remain the staple of the game.
Why? The whole point of AT is to not be limited by zillion dolar resin junk, but to make large scale Titan battles viable. And these most definitely weren't fought by just three classes - look at the FW Horus Heresy books, the Nemesis Class Titan is mentioned nearly as often as Warlord Battle Titan, and I'd really like to see it in plastic...
So, on the Imperial side there's the Fire Wasps (Legio Ignatum) and two others. On the traitor side, the Death's Heads (Legio Mortis), Storm Lords (Legio Tempestus) and the Flaming Skulls.
Two Fire Wasps titans are the gate guards for the Eternity Gate of the Imperial Palace.
Until the Black Library get there, that's the definitive list, I think.
See, this is why I think they need AT to help finish off the Heresy storyline. The most apocalyptic battles in the history of the imperium need as many giant robbits as possible.
Plus would you rather buy Forgeworld fortress walls in 8mm scale or 28mm scale?
No need to be unpleasant mate. I already said I don't value the rules or scenery. I suppose you didn't read that part. This won't be the case for everyone but I'm certainly not unique. GW are even pushing this as an aspect of AT (aimed at collectors etc etc). I won't call you stupid for having a contrary opinion to mine, as you have deemed appropriate. But I disagree. And why are you valuing the box sans warlord at £175? Is this the individually rrp of each other bit, sold separately? Why not spread the ATGM "value" equally across all components, instead of leaving the Warlords out? Do that maths instead. And while you're at it, get an rrp for the IKR rules and scenery, and apply the same maths to the IKR box. Just to be completely fair. And Logical.
/Edit - quotes
You're arguing in bad faith by equating a product not even released yet with one out long enough to get not one but two discounted bundle boxes. IKR wasn't available on release of the Knight kit, just like there are no discounted maniple boxes on day 1 of the Warlord. Why would GW heavily discount a single product on day 1 when demand is highest? That's just bad marketing. Maybe in a year or two you'll have a point, but do you honestly think we won't get AT discount boxes in time?
And if you find people disagreeing with on the Internet 'unpleasant' perhaps you shouldn't derail discussions with galaxy-brain takes like "old products get better discounts than new products!!!! bad deal!!!!"
Some people can disagree with one another w/o strongly implying the other is a dumbass. Which you've just done again. Meh. That's your problem, not mine. Good luck with the attitude though (see, this is where I'm implying that you're a....choose whatever pejorative you want based on my response. Though I really shouldn't presuppose anything about you based on our extremely limited interactions. I feel compelled right now though, probably will regret it in about 10 minutes. Hopefully a mod will delete this comment). Could you do the maths for me though, as a favour? (Then maybe multiply the final price of the warlords by about,,,0.75, to be generous to the Warlords, based on the volume of Warlords and the volume of the IKR Knights, in comparison to the respective bundles they're sold with - the AT box being half rules / terrain and half Miniatures, the IKR box being 75%+ Big Robots).
The problem is that your argument doesn't have a leg to stand on. That image was directly comparing the price of models sold separately against each other and you asked where the £50 Crusader/Errant was. However, the Crusader/Errant box catagorically does not cost £50 but £85, only 10 less than the Warden/Galant box, and is direct only from GW anyway. That you got yours for £50 by braking down the discount Knight Renegade box is extremely disingenuous and doesn't remotely reflect the actual cost of buying he model singularly, I mean I could claim I got mine for the cost of 5 Blood Angel Terminators and a Deathg Company Dreadnaut becaus thats what I swapped for it, but thats not what it actually costs to buy.
OK, you are technically correct that the photo illustrates prices of singular minis (apart from the Armiger, but that's no big deal). Do we have a definite price on a singular Warlord yet? I think I missed it. But anyway, technically correct is the worst kind of correct IMO. I could make the same photo, but do it from a "Best value" perspective, and it would look a lot different. Regardless, I take your point whilst maintaining my own and I withdraw from this particular discussion, it's gotten a bit sour for me, not really what I want to waste my time on. Plus I think the OT warnings apply here. I'll agree to disagree if you want, if not, well IDK, I don't suppose it matters either way really. And again, I'm not being disingenuous. You are putting that motive on me w/o knowing it to be true. I consider my argument to be valid, but even if it's not, my intent is genuine.
Thargrim wrote: But the warlord/reaver/warhound should probably remain the staple of the game.
Why? The whole point of AT is to not be limited by zillion dolar resin junk, but to make large scale Titan battles viable. And these most definitely weren't fought by just three classes - look at the FW Horus Heresy books, the Nemesis Class Titan is mentioned nearly as often as Warlord Battle Titan, and I'd really like to see it in plastic...
Isn't the Nemesis Class a sub-class of Warlords with a specific weapons load like the Eclipse, Night Gaunt, Death Bringer, …
If I'm sure we'll see more (well, at least I hope so) imho the 3 classes mentioned will be the most commonly encountered on tabletops
Thargrim wrote: But the warlord/reaver/warhound should probably remain the staple of the game.
Why? The whole point of AT is to not be limited by zillion dolar resin junk, but to make large scale Titan battles viable. And these most definitely weren't fought by just three classes - look at the FW Horus Heresy books, the Nemesis Class Titan is mentioned nearly as often as Warlord Battle Titan, and I'd really like to see it in plastic...
Isn't the Nemesis Class a sub-class of Warlords with a specific weapons load like the Eclipse, Night Gaunt, Death Bringer, …
If I'm sure we'll see more (weel, at least I hope so) imho the 3 classes mentioned will be the most commonly encountered on tabletops
Yes though I think there's been talk of expanding those into own classes of their own.
It was originally, but it's been retconned to being a distinct other class of battle titan. There's a few sneaky mentions of additional classes of battle titan in the Horus Heresy books from Forge World. I really should look them up and list them all. Lexicanum is sadly outdated in this regard.
Thargrim wrote: But the warlord/reaver/warhound should probably remain the staple of the game.
Why? The whole point of AT is to not be limited by zillion dolar resin junk, but to make large scale Titan battles viable. And these most definitely weren't fought by just three classes - look at the FW Horus Heresy books, the Nemesis Class Titan is mentioned nearly as often as Warlord Battle Titan, and I'd really like to see it in plastic...
Isn't the Nemesis Class a sub-class of Warlords with a specific weapons load like the Eclipse, Night Gaunt, Death Bringer, …
If I'm sure we'll see more (weel, at least I hope so) imho the 3 classes mentioned will be the most commonly encountered on tabletops
Really nice fluff nugget in the bottom left caption on that image.
I was bored enough once to decode the variant codes used on all the original Adeptus Titanicus datacards. I wonder if I can work it back into the new game ...
AndrewGPaul wrote: I was bored enough once to decode the variant codes used on all the original Adeptus Titanicus datacards. I wonder if I can work it back into the new game ...
How did it worked exactly?
MBTW for Main Battle Titan Warlord I would guess, then a code for the variant, its VSG value and the last 4 seems to be the weapons load (e.g. X for chainfist, Z for powerfist, ...)
General Helstrom wrote: I'd actually be cool with there being not too many additional releases for AT. The triad of Titans slated for release and the weapons that have cards for them should make for a nicely balanced game. More releases - which means more funky special rules and one-upmanship - could easily cause the game to bloat and become unbalanced.
Yeah the more comments I see like this the more I feel like I am beginning to feel what is best for the gaming community. I now think GW should hold off releasing the Warhound and Reaver indefinitely, and just keep releasing the Warlord over and over again. Maybe keep the Knights around, but limit their number. I am sure someone will find a way to break the game with them. So what we'll be left with is a single model we all know and love and would make the game perfectly balanced. And at $110 a pop we all should be happy to build up an army of 5 models for $550.
The best part is imagining how people wont get bored of this, and the game will still be played by everyone a year or two from now. And if anyone gets any idea of moving on to a game with more models and more variety in tactics, we can just smack them and tell them they wont find a more balanced game than the new AT.
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AndrewGPaul wrote: I was bored enough once to decode the variant codes used on all the original Adeptus Titanicus datacards. I wonder if I can work it back into the new game ...
We did something similar for SM2 for point values and weapons, to try and make rules for the newer units in SM2 so we could play with them in the AT/SM1 system. It wasn't perfect, but we would compare units that appeared in both systems and try to create formulas to we could look at something like a Squat Land Train and convert it to SM1. I had all these crazy sheets summarizing how a unit that might move 15cm in the newer system might move something like 12/24 or whatever in the old, and so on.
We were dragged kicking and screaming into SM2/TL, but once we did we rarely went back. Some of the best games I ever played were in AT/SM1 though.
KTG17 wrote: Yeah the more comments I see like this the more I feel like I am beginning to feel what is best for the gaming community. I now think GW should hold off releasing the Warhound and Reaver indefinitely, and just keep releasing the Warlord over and over again. Maybe keep the Knights around, but limit their number. I am sure someone will find a way to break the game with them. So what we'll be left with is a single model we all know and love and would make the game perfectly balanced. And at $110 a pop we all should be happy to build up an army of 5 models for $550.
The best part is imagining how people wont get bored of this, and the game will still be played by everyone a year or two from now. And if anyone gets any idea of moving on to a game with more models and more variety in tactics, we can just smack them and tell them they wont find a more balanced game than the new AT.
Instead, let's keep throwing rules at the game until everyone has an exception to everything (including each other's exceptions), all represented in miniatures of course and printed in about a dozen supplements, FAQs and errata so players end up lugging around more paper than plastic.
Or we could not be twits and refrain from dragging each other's arguments to ridiculous extremes, but that might be too much to ask.
KTG17 wrote: Yeah the more comments I see like this the more I feel like I am beginning to feel what is best for the gaming community. I now think GW should hold off releasing the Warhound and Reaver indefinitely, and just keep releasing the Warlord over and over again. Maybe keep the Knights around, but limit their number. I am sure someone will find a way to break the game with them. So what we'll be left with is a single model we all know and love and would make the game perfectly balanced. And at $110 a pop we all should be happy to build up an army of 5 models for $550.
The best part is imagining how people wont get bored of this, and the game will still be played by everyone a year or two from now. And if anyone gets any idea of moving on to a game with more models and more variety in tactics, we can just smack them and tell them they wont find a more balanced game than the new AT.
Instead, let's keep throwing rules at the game until everyone has an exception to everything (including each other's exceptions), all represented in miniatures of course and printed in about a dozen supplements, FAQs and errata so players end up lugging around more paper than plastic.
Or we could not be twits and refrain from dragging each other's arguments to ridiculous extremes, but that might be too much to ask.
Reductio ad absurdum could be a good motto for a Legion.
Instead, let's keep throwing rules at the game until everyone has an exception to everything (including each other's exceptions), all represented in miniatures of course and printed in about a dozen supplements, FAQs and errata so players end up lugging around more paper than plastic.
Or we could not be twits and refrain from dragging each other's arguments to ridiculous extremes, but that might be too much to ask.
If you are throwing rules at the game it means people are asking for more, so that means the game is selling and people will want it expanded on. By coming out and saying, 'Hey we're only going to do X and leave it at that, regardless of how well its received or demanded" then people wont invest in it, or if they do, only to a certain point (How many Warlords, Reavers, or Warhounds will someone buy?). The game will whither and die, although we'll have a few die-hards like you posting how great they think the game is and wished more people played it while everyone else will have moved on to something more exciting.
GW isn't going to throw money at a dead product, so the fact that they would expand on it means there is demand for it. I would demand it myself in hopes that it would keep people interested in the game, rather than throwing what they bought up on eBay. And I have never seen GW put out a perfect rules system anyway, so I can't expect that I will think what they have done up to this point will be either.
vegeta365 wrote: Xenos is coming. The only thing stopping it is poor sales. Tony Cottrell said they would do the other races. It is Epic that is a ? I think it will definitely come as they deliberately sized the scale so that you could tell the difference in mk armour on a space marine but Tony did say that they are not making the mistake they did last time and rushing into Epic. It will be a long long way off.
6mm allows distinction of marks as well. Well at least 3rd parties can.
3rd party individuals. Due to ip issues not publicly on sale. Don't have any but seen mk4 and maybe mk3 marines(along with angron, contemptators, sicarans etc)
tneva82 wrote: 3rd party individuals. Due to ip issues not publicly on sale. Don't have any but seen mk4 and maybe mk3 marines(along with angron, contemptators, sicarans etc)
Meh, I could see a tiny bit more size being useful for painting and such as the current stuff is still a bit tiny for that kind of detail. It's good and yes, you can tell, but a 1/3 increase in size would be great for slightly better painting results.
AndrewGPaul wrote: I was bored enough once to decode the variant codes used on all the original Adeptus Titanicus datacards. I wonder if I can work it back into the new game ...
How did it worked exactly?
MBTW for Main Battle Titan Warlord I would guess, then a code for the variant, its VSG value and the last 4 seems to be the weapons load (e.g. X for chainfist, Z for powerfist, ...)
MBT for Main Battle Titan , W for Warlord. Next letter is the speed, the number after that the void shield count. The four letters after the slash indicate the weapon and the number of barrels (up to four; super-heavy weapons always have one barrel, so they only have one letter each). Not every combination is actually present (even adding in the six datacards for Warhounds and Reavers in WD 109) but there's enough to fill in the gaps
AndrewGPaul wrote: I was bored enough once to decode the variant codes used on all the original Adeptus Titanicus datacards. I wonder if I can work it back into the new game ...
How did it worked exactly?
MBTW for Main Battle Titan Warlord I would guess, then a code for the variant, its VSG value and the last 4 seems to be the weapons load (e.g. X for chainfist, Z for powerfist, ...)
MBT for Main Battle Titan , W for Warlord. Next letter is the speed, the number after that the void shield count. The four letters after the slash indicate the weapon and the number of barrels (up to four; super-heavy weapons always have one barrel, so they only have one letter each). Not every combination is actually present (even adding in the six datacards for Warhounds and Reavers in WD 109) but there's enough to fill in the gaps
ph34r wrote: Are there any good online locations for seeing a comparison of all the known Titan legion schemes and iconography?
I've been looking at schemes lately, just single google images, I noticed they're mostly in the FWHH book style of art. So if you have access to those books I imagine there will be a fair few variations to peruse.
ph34r wrote: Are there any good online locations for seeing a comparison of all the known Titan legion schemes and iconography?
Folks on the ADEPTUS TITANICUS 2018 facebook group are putting up collage pics of various legios, showing them as pictured by 1990's GW, by Forge World and by Specialist Games today.
I'm tempted myself to go with Legio Praesagius for some reason I like the idea of it....... and and I can force feed my titans to the next person who complains the Kronor system was irrelevant
BrianDavion wrote: I'm tempted myself to go with Legio Praesagius for some reason I like the idea of it....... and and I can force feed my titans to the next person who complains the Kronor system was irrelevant
BrianDavion wrote: I'm tempted myself to go with Legio Praesagius for some reason I like the idea of it....... and and I can force feed my titans to the next person who complains the Kronor system was irrelevant
BrianDavion wrote: I'm tempted myself to go with Legio Praesagius for some reason I like the idea of it....... and and I can force feed my titans to the next person who complains the Kronor system was irrelevant
Mysterio wrote: Iv'e always been a fan of the Warp Runners (Legio Astorum):
(I wonder if they will have some pre-game ability to represent their arrival via teleportation?)
The Corona is a nice mark. Chevrons too. Must have chevrons. I might be tempted to switch the colour of the head to something more complementary but I'm a bit conventional when it comes to painting, too many failed experiments.
Oh, and back in the day my favorite legion was the Traitor legion Stormlords. Painted up many titans like those on the inside of the Codex Titanicus. Prob will paint half of my new ones along those lines.
KTG17 wrote: Oh, and back in the day my favorite legion was the Traitor legion Stormlords. Painted up many titans like those on the inside of the Codex Titanicus. Prob will paint half of my new ones along those lines.
Thargrim wrote: But the warlord/reaver/warhound should probably remain the staple of the game.
Why? The whole point of AT is to not be limited by zillion dolar resin junk, but to make large scale Titan battles viable. And these most definitely weren't fought by just three classes - look at the FW Horus Heresy books, the Nemesis Class Titan is mentioned nearly as often as Warlord Battle Titan, and I'd really like to see it in plastic...
Isn't the Nemesis Class a sub-class of Warlords with a specific weapons load like the Eclipse, Night Gaunt, Death Bringer, …
If I'm sure we'll see more (well, at least I hope so) imho the 3 classes mentioned will be the most commonly encountered on tabletops
Maybe it used to be, but I feel it's obsolete distinction much like various Knight names that mean different things now than they used to 20 years ago. FW books really do imply Nemesis is not a Warlord, IIRC it's bigger and has weapons arranged in different way...
Thargrim wrote: But the warlord/reaver/warhound should probably remain the staple of the game.
Why? The whole point of AT is to not be limited by zillion dolar resin junk, but to make large scale Titan battles viable. And these most definitely weren't fought by just three classes - look at the FW Horus Heresy books, the Nemesis Class Titan is mentioned nearly as often as Warlord Battle Titan, and I'd really like to see it in plastic...
Isn't the Nemesis Class a sub-class of Warlords with a specific weapons load like the Eclipse, Night Gaunt, Death Bringer, …
If I'm sure we'll see more (well, at least I hope so) imho the 3 classes mentioned will be the most commonly encountered on tabletops
Maybe it used to be, but I feel it's obsolete distinction much like various Knight names that mean different things now than they used to 20 years ago. FW books really do imply Nemesis is not a Warlord, IIRC it's bigger and has weapons arranged in different way...
Any particular HH books with lots of Titan fluff? Or is it an even spread throughout the series?
I would expect to see the Cerastus appear and for GW to also flesh out the Titan range. Even in 40K its only in recent years that Knights have appeared as an actual viable model; whilst Epic has been out of the scene for ages.
Otherwise the only option for titans was prohibitively expensive for variety. Now AT hasn't got the limit of costing hundreds to thousands to purchase for the customer so there is every chance that we will see more titans. Warlord might remain the biggest for now, with the psywarlock possibly being one of the earlier either special designs or even a character type unit (ergo unique so only one can ever be taken per army).
Of course weapon packs will be more common and will add a lot of variety on their own without the need for lots of titan carapace hulls to be released.
We might also see some titanic flying units appear - Certainly if the Xenos appear then Manta Rays and Harridins will appear so it wouldn't be out of the question for a large Imperial Air titan to appear.
We might also see some titanic flying units appear - Certainly if the Xenos appear then Manta Rays and Harridins will appear so it wouldn't be out of the question for a large Imperial Air titan to appear.
Here's hoping for a storm bird model. Not quite titanic but the biggest planetside imperial combat flyer we know of I think.
Any particular HH books with lots of Titan fluff? Or is it an even spread throughout the series?
As far as the Heresy novels go, Mechanicum by Graham McNeill is probably your best bet for Titan action. It covers the civil war on Mars, and the rise of the Dark Mechanicum. Titan warfare plays an important role in the later parts of the book.
https://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/Mechanicum-eBook.html
I was watching a video of the unboxing of the Civitas Imperialis box and I noticed a couple of pieces which are not on the terrain sprues, the one at the top looks very similar to the macro cannon battery from the battlefield assets available in the Rules Set, the one just below seems similar to the radar dish, the following one I don't know and the last one seems similar to the base (although maybe a bit more circular). They can be seen at 0:48 when the guys are flipping through the booklet.
So is the booklet simply showing an alternative use of the battlefield assets or are we going to have another terrain set (fortifications?) including such components?
Thargrim wrote: But the warlord/reaver/warhound should probably remain the staple of the game.
Why? The whole point of AT is to not be limited by zillion dolar resin junk, but to make large scale Titan battles viable. And these most definitely weren't fought by just three classes - look at the FW Horus Heresy books, the Nemesis Class Titan is mentioned nearly as often as Warlord Battle Titan, and I'd really like to see it in plastic...
Isn't the Nemesis Class a sub-class of Warlords with a specific weapons load like the Eclipse, Night Gaunt, Death Bringer, …
If I'm sure we'll see more (well, at least I hope so) imho the 3 classes mentioned will be the most commonly encountered on tabletops
Maybe it used to be, but I feel it's obsolete distinction much like various Knight names that mean different things now than they used to 20 years ago. FW books really do imply Nemesis is not a Warlord, IIRC it's bigger and has weapons arranged in different way...
Any particular HH books with lots of Titan fluff? Or is it an even spread throughout the series?
Mechanium is your best bet, although in december a new novel comes out called Titanfall that is REAAALLY your best bet for titan on titan action
Mendi Warrior wrote: I was watching a video of the unboxing of the Civitas Imperialis box and I noticed a couple of pieces which are not on the terrain sprues, the one at the top looks very similar to the macro cannon battery from the battlefield assets available in the Rules Set, the one just below seems similar to the radar dish, the following one I don't know and the last one seems similar to the base (although maybe a bit more circular). They can be seen at 0:48 when the guys are flipping through the booklet.
So is the booklet simply showing an alternative use of the battlefield assets or are we going to have another terrain set (fortifications?) including such components?
That is interesting, makes me wonder if it's stuff they designed but couldn't fit on the sprue...just like the knight missile pod. I would love little bits and things to put on the buildings, just wish we had a clearer image so we could tell if those are just bits from the rules box or something else entirely.
edit: looking closer it looks like a macro cannon, void shield relay and plasma generator, so yeah i'm now thinking the assets can just be placed on top of the buildings.
Thank you all for the suggestions on Titan fluff. I tend to like GW studio writing (often) but I'm really not a fan of BL, with some exceptions, I think the quality is generally quite poor, and somewhat repetitive. I was thinking more along the lines of the FWHH big books. I know that many of the pivotal events of the Heresy are covered in these books (retconned or not). I suppose they've all got Titanicus included to some extent, Istvaan onwards. Just wondering if there are any that focus more heavily on the God Machines.
JWBS wrote: Thank you all for the suggestions on Titan fluff. I tend to like GW studio writing (often) but I'm really not a fan of BL, with some exceptions, I think the quality is generally quite poor, and somewhat repetitive. I was thinking more along the lines of the FWHH big books. I know that many of the pivotal events of the Heresy are covered in these books (retconned or not). I suppose they've all got Titanicus included to some extent, Istvaan onwards. Just wondering if there are any that focus more heavily on the God Machines.
You won't find that in the Heresy 'Black Books', other than mentions in passing when describing a campaign. Their focus is on the Space Marine Legions and equipment mostly, with some auxiliaries thrown in. I believe it was book 5 'Tempest' that had the Warlord Titan rules in it, but it was hardly an exhaustive section. Similar to others , the book mostly focused this time on the Word Bearers and Imperial militias.
JWBS wrote: Thank you all for the suggestions on Titan fluff. I tend to like GW studio writing (often) but I'm really not a fan of BL, with some exceptions, I think the quality is generally quite poor, and somewhat repetitive. I was thinking more along the lines of the FWHH big books. I know that many of the pivotal events of the Heresy are covered in these books (retconned or not). I suppose they've all got Titanicus included to some extent, Istvaan onwards. Just wondering if there are any that focus more heavily on the God Machines.
You won't find that in the Heresy 'Black Books', other than mentions in passing when describing a campaign. Their focus is on the Space Marine Legions and equipment mostly, with some auxiliaries thrown in.
Well that's a shame. Just looking at the covers (never judge a book as they say I suppose), books 1,3, and 5 feature Titans as the cover illustration Even books 4 and 6 have Knights plastered on the front
JWBS wrote: Thank you all for the suggestions on Titan fluff. I tend to like GW studio writing (often) but I'm really not a fan of BL, with some exceptions, I think the quality is generally quite poor, and somewhat repetitive. I was thinking more along the lines of the FWHH big books. I know that many of the pivotal events of the Heresy are covered in these books (retconned or not). I suppose they've all got Titanicus included to some extent, Istvaan onwards. Just wondering if there are any that focus more heavily on the God Machines.
You won't find that in the Heresy 'Black Books', other than mentions in passing when describing a campaign. Their focus is on the Space Marine Legions and equipment mostly, with some auxiliaries thrown in.
Well that's a shame. Just looking at the covers (never judge a book as they say I suppose), books 1,3, and 5 feature Titans as the cover illustration
It makes some nice art, but the books were heavily focused on the Space Marine Legions. I would not buy any of the Black Books if Titan stuff is your main interest. It will be disappointing.
JWBS wrote: Thank you all for the suggestions on Titan fluff. I tend to like GW studio writing (often) but I'm really not a fan of BL, with some exceptions, I think the quality is generally quite poor, and somewhat repetitive. I was thinking more along the lines of the FWHH big books. I know that many of the pivotal events of the Heresy are covered in these books (retconned or not). I suppose they've all got Titanicus included to some extent, Istvaan onwards. Just wondering if there are any that focus more heavily on the God Machines.
You won't find that in the Heresy 'Black Books', other than mentions in passing when describing a campaign. Their focus is on the Space Marine Legions and equipment mostly, with some auxiliaries thrown in.
Well that's a shame. Just looking at the covers (never judge a book as they say I suppose), books 1,3, and 5 feature Titans as the cover illustration
It makes some nice art, but the books were heavily focused on the Space Marine Legions. I would not buy any of the Black Books if Titan stuff is your main interest. It will be disappointing.
I do love me some marines. But my bookshelves are already straing under the weight of Spase Marine writings. I'm on the big robot hype train right now.
totalfailure wrote: It makes some nice art, but the books were heavily focused on the Space Marine Legions. I would not buy any of the Black Books if Titan stuff is your main interest. It will be disappointing.
To be fair, around the time Warlord Titan came out (the model) HH books started devoting large parts to titan action. Still, I believe there are sections of note in only two of them, IIRC namely these dealing with battles of Calth and Prospero. If someone wants to read these solely for the titans, I'd look for excerpts online...
totalfailure wrote: It makes some nice art, but the books were heavily focused on the Space Marine Legions. I would not buy any of the Black Books if Titan stuff is your main interest. It will be disappointing.
To be fair, around the time Warlord Titan came out (the model) HH books started devoting large parts to titan action. Still, I believe there are sections of note in only two of them, IIRC namely these dealing with battles of Calth and Prospero. If someone wants to read these solely for the titans, I'd look for excerpts online...
from what I understand around that time was also when the inital decision making process on doing AT came out.
totalfailure wrote: It makes some nice art, but the books were heavily focused on the Space Marine Legions. I would not buy any of the Black Books if Titan stuff is your main interest. It will be disappointing.
To be fair, around the time Warlord Titan came out (the model) HH books started devoting large parts to titan action. Still, I believe there are sections of note in only two of them, IIRC namely these dealing with battles of Calth and Prospero. If someone wants to read these solely for the titans, I'd look for excerpts online...
from what I understand around that time was also when the inital decision making process on doing AT came out.
I can just imagine the design team's discussion during the morning meeting
Guy 1 - "So lads, the Warlord looks to be a success. But are we really going for an Imperator now? Is this not too much for the human brain to fathom?"
Guy 2 - "Well....We could always do an Epic scale Imperator??"
totalfailure wrote: It makes some nice art, but the books were heavily focused on the Space Marine Legions. I would not buy any of the Black Books if Titan stuff is your main interest. It will be disappointing.
To be fair, around the time Warlord Titan came out (the model) HH books started devoting large parts to titan action. Still, I believe there are sections of note in only two of them, IIRC namely these dealing with battles of Calth and Prospero. If someone wants to read these solely for the titans, I'd look for excerpts online...
from what I understand around that time was also when the inital decision making process on doing AT came out.
I can just imagine the design team's discussion during the morning meeting
Guy 1 - "So lads, the Warlord looks to be a success. But are we really going for an Imperator now? Is this not too much for the human brain to fathom?"
Guy 2 - "Well....We could always do an Epic scale Imperator??"
And thus, AT was born
I forsee it more along these lines.
Guy 1: - People absolutely love the warlord Forgeworld put out, they think it's the best one yet and everyone wants one to display
Guy 2: I hear a but in there.
Guy 1: well the But is most people can't afford it. This things IS 1500 US dollars, not a lot of people can justify that expense.
Guy 2: most people buy titans to collect more then play, why not just make a small one out of scale?
Guy 1: People would insist on all our stuff being playable in a game
Guy 2: well they're getting specialist games going again, let's see about ressurecting adeptus titancus
Any particular HH books with lots of Titan fluff? Or is it an even spread throughout the series?
As far as the Heresy novels go, Mechanicum by Graham McNeill is probably your best bet for Titan action. It covers the civil war on Mars, and the rise of the Dark Mechanicum. Titan warfare plays an important role in the later parts of the book.
https://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/Mechanicum-eBook.html
Vengeful Spirit and Master of Mankind also have Titan Battles in later parts. The Battles of Lupercalia and the Imperial webway are very interesting. Don't miss them.
If you're tired of Space Marines, especially Master of Mankind is your book to go.
Thargrim wrote: But the warlord/reaver/warhound should probably remain the staple of the game.
Why? The whole point of AT is to not be limited by zillion dolar resin junk, but to make large scale Titan battles viable. And these most definitely weren't fought by just three classes - look at the FW Horus Heresy books, the Nemesis Class Titan is mentioned nearly as often as Warlord Battle Titan, and I'd really like to see it in plastic...
Isn't the Nemesis Class a sub-class of Warlords with a specific weapons load like the Eclipse, Night Gaunt, Death Bringer, …
If I'm sure we'll see more (well, at least I hope so) imho the 3 classes mentioned will be the most commonly encountered on tabletops
Maybe it used to be, but I feel it's obsolete distinction much like various Knight names that mean different things now than they used to 20 years ago. FW books really do imply Nemesis is not a Warlord, IIRC it's bigger and has weapons arranged in different way...
Any particular HH books with lots of Titan fluff? Or is it an even spread throughout the series?
Mechanium is your best bet, although in december a new novel comes out called Titanfall that is REAAALLY your best bet for titan on titan action
The best info on the other Titan types in more recent Cannon (and as written by Forgeworld you would imagine what would be in their plans to produce) are in the HH 30k gaming Forgeworld big black books. Unfortunately unless you play the game and have collected ten as each comes out they are a very expensive buy. Each book covers in detail 1-2 Titan legions and sometimes knights houses. In this detail it describes what titans the legion has access to and mentions new ones (no pictures of these so they can design them however they wish). It isn’t worth buying these books just for this info though (unless you have a lot of expendable income) but if you can read them then we’ll worth doing so. If I get time I will look through them and write the names of newly named titans from those books.
KTG17 wrote: Oh, and back in the day my favorite legion was the Traitor legion Stormlords. Painted up many titans like those on the inside of the Codex Titanicus. Prob will paint half of my new ones along those lines.
Thargrim wrote: But the warlord/reaver/warhound should probably remain the staple of the game.
Why? The whole point of AT is to not be limited by zillion dolar resin junk, but to make large scale Titan battles viable. And these most definitely weren't fought by just three classes - look at the FW Horus Heresy books, the Nemesis Class Titan is mentioned nearly as often as Warlord Battle Titan, and I'd really like to see it in plastic...
Isn't the Nemesis Class a sub-class of Warlords with a specific weapons load like the Eclipse, Night Gaunt, Death Bringer, …
If I'm sure we'll see more (well, at least I hope so) imho the 3 classes mentioned will be the most commonly encountered on tabletops
Maybe it used to be, but I feel it's obsolete distinction much like various Knight names that mean different things now than they used to 20 years ago. FW books really do imply Nemesis is not a Warlord, IIRC it's bigger and has weapons arranged in different way...
Any particular HH books with lots of Titan fluff? Or is it an even spread throughout the series?
Mechanium is your best bet, although in december a new novel comes out called Titanfall that is REAAALLY your best bet for titan on titan action
The best info on the other Titan types in more recent Cannon (and as written by Forgeworld you would imagine what would be in their plans to produce) are in the HH 30k gaming Forgeworld big black books. Unfortunately unless you play the game and have collected ten as each comes out they are a very expensive buy. Each book covers in detail 1-2 Titan legions and sometimes knights houses. In this detail it describes what titans the legion has access to and mentions new ones (no pictures of these so they can design them however they wish). It isn’t worth buying these books just for this info though (unless you have a lot of expendable income) but if you can read them then we’ll worth doing so. If I get time I will look through them and write the names of newly named titans from those books.
Great, thanks. I used to buy a lot of GW books but I'm definitely in no position to spend £hundreds on them, have other priorities these days, so any info would be much appreciated.
KTG17 wrote: Oh, and back in the day my favorite legion was the Traitor legion Stormlords. Painted up many titans like those on the inside of the Codex Titanicus. Prob will paint half of my new ones along those lines.
Aye, Legio Tempestus have a new look:
They're also one of the two Legions with rules in the core set. Paint both Warlords up as Storm Lords, and you can field them together or on opposite sides, for maximum variety!
Instead, let's keep throwing rules at the game until everyone has an exception to everything (including each other's exceptions), all represented in miniatures of course and printed in about a dozen supplements, FAQs and errata so players end up lugging around more paper than plastic.
Or we could not be twits and refrain from dragging each other's arguments to ridiculous extremes, but that might be too much to ask.
If you are throwing rules at the game it means people are asking for more, so that means the game is selling and people will want it expanded on. By coming out and saying, 'Hey we're only going to do X and leave it at that, regardless of how well its received or demanded" then people wont invest in it, or if they do, only to a certain point (How many Warlords, Reavers, or Warhounds will someone buy?). The game will whither and die, although we'll have a few die-hards like you posting how great they think the game is and wished more people played it while everyone else will have moved on to something more exciting.
GW isn't going to throw money at a dead product, so the fact that they would expand on it means there is demand for it. I would demand it myself in hopes that it would keep people interested in the game, rather than throwing what they bought up on eBay. And I have never seen GW put out a perfect rules system anyway, so I can't expect that I will think what they have done up to this point will be either.
What I said is that I hope GW exercises some caution in how they expand upon this game. Rules bloat and power creep are real things too, which are threatening to its long-term viability unless regular overhauls also take place. It saddens me that my attempts at conveying nuance fall on deaf ears.
Any particular HH books with lots of Titan fluff? Or is it an even spread throughout the series?
As far as the Heresy novels go, Mechanicum by Graham McNeill is probably your best bet for Titan action. It covers the civil war on Mars, and the rise of the Dark Mechanicum. Titan warfare plays an important role in the later parts of the book.
https://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/Mechanicum-eBook.html
in fact one of the narrative scenarios in the game is taken from this book
Any particular HH books with lots of Titan fluff? Or is it an even spread throughout the series?
As far as the Heresy novels go, Mechanicum by Graham McNeill is probably your best bet for Titan action. It covers the civil war on Mars, and the rise of the Dark Mechanicum. Titan warfare plays an important role in the later parts of the book.
https://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/Mechanicum-eBook.html
in fact one of the narrative scenarios in the game is taken from this book
Yeah mate, unfortunately I'm not much of a McNiel fan tbh. "Storm of Iron" was one of my first BL books and I loved it, but his subsequent output left me thoroughly disappointed (and SoI didn't hold up when I tried a re-read a few years later). Maybe he's improved, but so many BL authors get 4 star reviews on Amazon and I always find these reviews to be incredibly generous, IMO, to the point that I've given up on BL entirely (except for Abnett, whose novels range from stellar to turgid, but mostly very good, so I'm always willing to take a risk on him). I know I'm probably missing out on a lot of gems with this outlook but I've bought so many BL books that I've dropped after 20 pages that I'm not willing to give them my money anymore.
I just watched the Legio Fureans video, I love at around 12:50 "Reviler titan" "designed exclusively as an inferno cannon platform". Sounds like a nice potential addition but maybe very legion specific.
So on release there will only be 1 titan with 1 weapon load out available? Or am I missing something? I'd love to pick it up but I'd rather not get into a game that only has a fraction of the models available.
I just watched the Legio Fureans video, I love at around 12:50 "Reviler titan" "designed exclusively as an inferno cannon platform". Sounds like a nice potential addition but maybe very legion specific.
Haha yeah. "We just want a thing to burn other things. It needs legs to get close enough, but massive flamers and legs is all that we require".
knas wrote: So on release there will only be 1 titan with 1 weapon load out available? Or am I missing something? I'd love to pick it up but I'd rather not get into a game that only has a fraction of the models available.
In terms of plastic, sadly, yes. The Warlord only comes with Apocalypse Missile Launchers and Belicosa Volcano Cannons. The weapon cards for a slew of other weapons are included in the game though. It's up to you and your opponents if you're cool with proxying the weapons before the upgrade kits come out.
knas wrote: So on release there will only be 1 titan with 1 weapon load out available? Or am I missing something? I'd love to pick it up but I'd rather not get into a game that only has a fraction of the models available.
There will be one Titan with one loadout *on the sprue*, but the rules contain weapon cards for lots of Warlord arm & carapace weapons so you can still play with variation until the actual weapons arrive as an upgrade sprue. Also, the Reaver is out probably next month and the Warhound the month after, so it's not that long a wait to have the classic "triad" of Titans available.
knas wrote: Wish we'd at least get the accesoaries for guns on saturday :( Alright, thanks guys
Knight weapons may be your best proxies. Or even just 28mm heavy weapons. They won't look exactly like engine weapons w/o extensive modification, but with a bit of chopping and changing they can definitely do the trick.
I'd look at 40k-scale vehicle-mounted weapons as proxies, personally. Or Contemptor Dreadnought weapons. Infantry weaponry would be a good source for carapace weapons.
40k SPace Marine heavy weapons made good proxies for arming the old metal Warlord titan, but it's half the size now.
knas wrote: Wish we'd at least get the accesoaries for guns on saturday :( Alright, thanks guys
Knight weapons may be your best proxies. Or even just 28mm heavy weapons. They won't look exactly like engine weapons w/o extensive modification, but with a bit of chopping and changing they can definitely do the trick.
Spare shieldbreaker missiles off the castellan/valiant kit look about perfect to use as warp missile batteries on the warlord. And the arms off the redemptor dreadnought seem like good starting points for the macro gattler, plasma destructor, and arioch fist with gattler.
knas wrote: Wish we'd at least get the accesoaries for guns on saturday :( Alright, thanks guys
Knight weapons may be your best proxies. Or even just 28mm heavy weapons. They won't look exactly like engine weapons w/o extensive modification, but with a bit of chopping and changing they can definitely do the trick.
Spare shieldbreaker missiles off the castellan/valiant kit look about perfect to use as warp missile batteries on the warlord. And the arms off the redemptor dreadnought seem like good starting points for the macro gattler, plasma destructor, and arioch fist with gattler.
I've gotten good use from the Cadian heavy team for my Knights, as secondary weapon systems. Auto, Bolter, Las (converted into big stubbers), even the mortar and the missile launcher might be useful. A decent selection with lots of spares, reasonably priced too. Yeah, I think 40k weapons will be the go-to for Warlord proxies.
Looking at that, the warp missile and vulvan mega-bolter on the Reaver, and the Vulcan array, mori quake cannon and macro-gatling blaster on the Warlord are new weapons (or at least, parts we've never seen on those titans yet).
I'd like to see asymmetrical carapace weapons, but I'll not lose any sleep over it.
If they have the rules in the box, but not the models on the sprue I wonder how long it'll take for certain resin-producing companies to produce versions for players to buy.
It is surprising considering GW's current stance - that said GW might have decided that its not as much a worry as it might be for upgrades as opposed to full models. Plus I'm fairly sure they won't leave us without those upgrade sprues for long - heck I wouldn't be surprised if they appear before the Reavers
Oh man I was lukewarm before this, BUT NOW I AM STOKED! Going to paint up a group of loyalists and a group of traitors and my traitors are using this scheme.
And then I will conquer the world and make you all my slaves.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Do you have a pic of the new Warlord in this scheme?
I miss the urban camo on the carapaces, though ...
I still think the mottled grey of the War Griffons is one of the best schemes, even though my 40k Warhound is in the colours of the Death's Heads and my existing Epic titans are Warp Runners and Tiger Eyes.
I still think the mottled grey of the War Griffons is one of the best schemes, even though my 40k Warhound is in the colours of the Death's Heads and my existing Epic titans are Warp Runners and Tiger Eyes.
Yeah. It always made sense to me that everything in 40k should really be in camo, as opposed to neon yellow or shining gold. But I eventually accepted that the aesthetics demand otherwise (not saying that camo doesn't look good, but if everything was in camo, that wouldn't be good).
I still think the mottled grey of the War Griffons is one of the best schemes, even though my 40k Warhound is in the colours of the Death's Heads and my existing Epic titans are Warp Runners and Tiger Eyes.
Yeah. It always made sense to me that everything in 40k should really be in camo, as opposed to neon yellow or shining gold. But I eventually accepted that the aesthetics demand otherwise (not saying that camo doesn't look good, but if everything was in camo, that wouldn't be good).
I always figured that most things in 40K were so large, or disproportionate, to their environment that camouflage never mattered.
It's pretty hard to miss an 8 foot tall Marine walking around among "normal" men, let alone shriveled up workers.
Titans that can step on multi-storied buildings would be no different.
I still think the mottled grey of the War Griffons is one of the best schemes, even though my 40k Warhound is in the colours of the Death's Heads and my existing Epic titans are Warp Runners and Tiger Eyes.
Yeah. It always made sense to me that everything in 40k should really be in camo, as opposed to neon yellow or shining gold. But I eventually accepted that the aesthetics demand otherwise (not saying that camo doesn't look good, but if everything was in camo, that wouldn't be good).
Granted a Titan is a 100 foot tall wlaker with energy shields, so at that point you proably gotta ask "why the hell bother with cameo" although I bet a dazzle paint scheme could be intreasting
Warships use camouflage to help break up their appearance, I think since around WW1/2 times to present at the very least (if not earlier). So there's argument there for camo on huge targets.
Context is important, a Warlord is vast but it fights in vast environments. The battlefields we setup could be many levels up atop huge hive cities. There is thus still value in camo even if it only has a marginal bonus. Every little bit helps
Well, the email from GW for tagging yourself in the 'notify me' for stock for the GME arrived.
I guess they expect us all to buy less for more money even though it hasn't even reached release date yet.
... From GW ...
Princeps,
We’re sorry to report that the Adeptus Titanicus: Grand Master Edition has sold out and will not be returning for the foreseeable future.
Yet, hope is not lost.
Everything that was in the Grand Master Edition is still available. So whether you’re after the core set, extra Titans, Knights or scenery, you’ll be able to assemble your maniple and wage war with the most powerful machines ever to walk the battlefields of the 31st Millennium.
It's a fair email - and good info for those who might not be trawling the forums all the time and thus might have thought the game box had unique models or sculpts (as many GW starter boxes often do have).
Overread wrote: It's a fair email - and good info for those who might not be trawling the forums all the time and thus might have thought the game box had unique models or sculpts (as many GW starter boxes often do have).
yup thats my read. also the email is worth reading as it's IMHO a statement on the GME being reprinted, a lotta people seem to be figuring the set'll be back by january or so, sounds like it might not. and if it reappers in 2019 it might be like... next summer. (which IMHO is a good warning about doing busniess with any third party retailer taking orders for the 2nd print run of the GME already)
GW Marketing never reveal data on future product production changes. They basically stick to saying whatever the website store says. This goes for stuff coming into and going out of production. So it stands to reason that from their point of view the core box isn't coming back in the near future.
It's also a sound marketing move to encourage people to buy stuf now rather than go "well I'll wait 6 months" (which can also be said to benefit gamers in so much as it encourages more people to get into the game now
It's also a sound marketing move to encourage people to buy stuf now rather than go "well I'll wait 6 months" (which can also be said to benefit gamers in so much as it encourages more people to get into the game now
I thought nuGW had stopped doing this. This was the method GW seemed to sell everything in the few years prior to the 'nu' changes in management.
I personally think GW were pushing the price to the max for the AT:GME. Now they know that was a sell out, they'll see if people will pay the even higher seperate prices. If we do, they won't make a GME reprint. If sales on individual AT stuff stalls, we'll see a reprint.
It's also a sound marketing move to encourage people to buy stuf now rather than go "well I'll wait 6 months" (which can also be said to benefit gamers in so much as it encourages more people to get into the game now
I thought nuGW had stopped doing this. This was the method GW seemed to sell everything in the few years prior to the 'nu' changes in management.
I personally think GW were pushing the price to the max for the AT:GME. Now they know that was a sell out, they'll see if people will pay the even higher seperate prices. If we do, they won't make a GME reprint. If sales on individual AT stuff stalls, we'll see a reprint.
That would only be the case if they'd raised the prices, which they haven't. The game is selling strongly (based on its sellout and current forum chatter) in the preorder phase which means that GW got it right. That means its all going according to if not better than planned. this puts greater chance on them re-issuing the game box.
We all know it was limited because GW still have to produce stock for it and that stock has to have a value; the limited aspect also means that GW can't restore that stock very quickly which might simply be a legacy of the fact that their production capacity is at maximum and they've not yet built their new production factory to help ease the pressure. Indeed they might even slipp the rumoured second release date around Christmas if it proves that their Christmas orders are putting too much pressure on their other lines.
BrianDavion wrote: Granted a Titan is a 100 foot tall wlaker with energy shields, so at that point you proably gotta ask "why the hell bother with cameo" although I bet a dazzle paint scheme could be intreasting
Yeah, and one that blows an 8000 decibel war horn as it strides across the battlefield. LOL.
Gimgamgoo wrote: Well, the email from GW for tagging yourself in the 'notify me' for stock for the GME arrived.
I guess they expect us all to buy less for more money even though it hasn't even reached release date yet.
Man that sucks. I wonder how many they made. I guess they had no way of knowing how badly peeps wanted this. I always think starter sets are the best way into a hobby. For me its a way to organize my stuff too. I always start with the starter and go from there.
Mysterio wrote: I hope all of the more esoteric Titan weapons eventually make a return too.
In particular, the Trident, Wrecker and - the best one - the Harpoon!
Don't forget the heads!
Was always a huge fan of the Corvos Assault Pod! ** For those who don't know, that was a Titan arm filled with Marines. If I remember correctly you could punch a building with enemy troops in it to assault them. It wasn't really for using against other titans. At least that's what I remember. Or are making up. Its all a blur at the moment.
Not sure we'll ever see this kind of customization to the titan's rules though. It seems everything is based around those weapon slots. Then again, they did the same back in the day and that didn't stop them from giving all titans a head mounted Heavy Bolter once SM came out. So who knows what they will do. I just hope they do lots.
Have gotten my copy of AT:GME yesterday. Fine so far but they should have hired some proof reader for the german version. It contains some typos in the rule section.
First one says, game size ist 4x4 inches (Zoll), not feet (Fuß).
Second one is a german/english mixture.
Chaoticus maximus wrote: Have gotten my copy of AT:GME yesterday. Fine so far but they should have hired some proof reader for the german version. It contains some typos in the rule section.
First one says, game size ist 4x4 inches (Zoll), not feet (Fuß).
Second one is a german/english mixture.
Jesus I know most people in Europe tend to be bi-lingual but still that's just... I hope they FAQ it ASAP for any german speakers who AREN'T fluent in English.
Well, i guess due to the prize it is aimed at more aged players and not childrens so i think it‘s no problem for the players to understand. But it should not have happened.
Mysterio wrote: Even better - it wasn't just "Assault Marines" in the Corvus Assault Pod - it was Terminators!
Yeah, those were the days. Terminators were badass. Came with that Cyclone for a support weapon that had a burst template. The Land Raider was a beast too. Everything could do something meaningful in that system, it was great. So much depth. Some of the best memories I have from gaming are from the AT/SM1 era. Had some cool moments in 40k 2nd, Man O' War, Necromunda, and so on, but as games became more streamlined and 'elegant' (Just want to punch a designer in the mouth when they say that about their game) over the years, I feel the less I see of those heroic moments. And not talking about character models per say, just how a support stand might desperately pop off a long distance shot, hit a Land Raider, and inflict a critical hit, and have an impact on your opponent's decision to continue his flanking attack. God I loved it.
One time I thought I was cleaver and added jump jets to a Warlord. In the middle of the game I had him jump over some buildings in the charge phase. In the following advance movement phase, my friend turned 4 of his warlords in my direction. In the fire phase my titan was blown to smithereens. I don't think I even got a shot off. As a matter of fact, I brought 6 warlords to that fight, along with infantry and vehicles, and the game took 3 nights for the four of us to play out. I lost all my titans by the second night, but I pulled off a victory by the end of the third night, withering down his already worn out titans with what was left of my marines. I never started out a game so badly yet pulled victory out from the jaws of defeat.
It's also a sound marketing move to encourage people to buy stuf now rather than go "well I'll wait 6 months" (which can also be said to benefit gamers in so much as it encourages more people to get into the game now
I thought nuGW had stopped doing this. This was the method GW seemed to sell everything in the few years prior to the 'nu' changes in management.
I personally think GW were pushing the price to the max for the AT:GME. Now they know that was a sell out, they'll see if people will pay the even higher seperate prices. If we do, they won't make a GME reprint. If sales on individual AT stuff stalls, we'll see a reprint.
That would only be the case if they'd raised the prices, which they haven't. The game is selling strongly (based on its sellout and current forum chatter) in the preorder phase which means that GW got it right. That means its all going according to if not better than planned. this puts greater chance on them re-issuing the game box.
We all know it was limited because GW still have to produce stock for it and that stock has to have a value; the limited aspect also means that GW can't restore that stock very quickly which might simply be a legacy of the fact that their production capacity is at maximum and they've not yet built their new production factory to help ease the pressure. Indeed they might even slipp the rumoured second release date around Christmas if it proves that their Christmas orders are putting too much pressure on their other lines.
the sucess of the game makes it more likely you'll see them re-release the GME. as GW'll proably view a discount box for a popular line as a better way to drive sales into over drive
Mysterio wrote: Even better - it wasn't just "Assault Marines" in the Corvus Assault Pod - it was Terminators!
Yeah, those were the days. Terminators were badass. Came with that Cyclone for a support weapon that had a burst template. The Land Raider was a beast too. Everything could do something meaningful in that system, it was great. So much depth. Some of the best memories I have from gaming are from the AT/SM1 era. Had some cool moments in 40k 2nd, Man O' War, Necromunda, and so on, but as games became more streamlined and 'elegant' (Just want to punch a designer in the mouth when they say that about their game) over the years, I feel the less I see of those heroic moments. And not talking about character models per say, just how a support stand might desperately pop off a long distance shot, hit a Land Raider, and inflict a critical hit, and have an impact on your opponent's decision to continue his flanking attack. God I loved it.
One time I thought I was cleaver and added jump jets to a Warlord. In the middle of the game I had him jump over some buildings in the charge phase. In the following advance movement phase, my friend turned 4 of his warlords in my direction. In the fire phase my titan was blown to smithereens. I don't think I even got a shot off. As a matter of fact, I brought 6 warlords to that fight, along with infantry and vehicles, and the game took 3 nights for the four of us to play out. I lost all my titans by the second night, but I pulled off a victory by the end of the third night, withering down his already worn out titans with what was left of my marines. I never started out a game so badly yet pulled victory out from the jaws of defeat.
It was glorious.
We had some highlights too. Like the time I took a stand of assault marines and took out a Warlord Titan in CC. It was first edition when you had to roll a 6 to survive getting through the titan void shields and I followed it up with another 6 to kill it. Lol. Good times.
Gimgamgoo wrote: Well, the email from GW for tagging yourself in the 'notify me' for stock for the GME arrived.
I guess they expect us all to buy less for more money even though it hasn't even reached release date yet.
Man that sucks. I wonder how many they made. I guess they had no way of knowing how badly peeps wanted this. I always think starter sets are the best way into a hobby. For me its a way to organize my stuff too. I always start with the starter and go from there.
Mysterio wrote: I hope all of the more esoteric Titan weapons eventually make a return too.
In particular, the Trident, Wrecker and - the best one - the Harpoon!
Don't forget the heads!
Was always a huge fan of the Corvos Assault Pod! ** For those who don't know, that was a Titan arm filled with Marines. If I remember correctly you could punch a building with enemy troops in it to assault them. It wasn't really for using against other titans. At least that's what I remember. Or are making up. Its all a blur at the moment.
Not sure we'll ever see this kind of customization to the titan's rules though. It seems everything is based around those weapon slots. Then again, they did the same back in the day and that didn't stop them from giving all titans a head mounted Heavy Bolter once SM came out. So who knows what they will do. I just hope they do lots.
Yep, that was my favourite too, but so much other cool stuff that I had forgotten about. Landing pads! Fire control towers, rubble claws! Mainstream RT / 40k / WFB (a little - just Chaos mainly) and specialist games (skirmish style) were always my main groove, but the epicness of Epic was a step above all of these, especially when it came to Titan weapon systems (though I had a great fondness for Super heavy tank formations too - the idea of shadowswords relentlessly blasting God engines into scrap metal always appealed to me. A victory for the little guys in their big ass tanks )
Lol. Corvus assault head. "Hey enemy Titan, i really like you. Lean in a bit closer so I can kiss you. Surprise, have some marines in your head!).
Azreal13 wrote: Somebody check a Warlord's butt, see if there's anywhere sculpted that could act as an anchor point for a tail.
There's what looks like a chunky lump on its rump, no idea of its a separate part of it. If it is then that could easily be left off to put a tail attachment on.
I also fully expect to see at least 1 upgrade option for chaos that has the rear portal opened up with tentacles coming out of it!
We had some highlights too. Like the time I took a stand of assault marines and took out a Warlord Titan in CC. It was first edition when you had to roll a 6 to survive getting through the titan void shields and I followed it up with another 6 to kill it. Lol. Good times.
Another fond memory was facing my buddy (we played a lot of 2 on 2, dividing the armies between two players on each side who worked as a team) who was playing Orks opposite of me. I had my Ultramarines in some buildings overlooking a bridge he was trying to cross over with a couple of Bonecrunchas and a full mob. All I had was a beat up tactical detachment with two missile launchers, a few melta guns I think (who were mostly out of range), bolters, AND THREE RHINOS. The Rhinos back then had those two vehicle mounted bolters that needed 6+ to hit, but on first fire needed 5+. They could shoot 24cm. So this massive Ork horde starts trying to cross the bridge and wouldn't you know it. Barely an ork crossed over the water before he gave up and just decided to hold the other side of the river. I just nailed shot after shot, but it was the lucky rolls with the Rhinos killing his boyz that made the night. When was the last time you heard about a few Rhinos saving the day? Never.
Another glorious moment.
It hasn't been the same since that system. By the time you get to Epic40k, the Rhinos are nothing but taxis with a firepower of 0. Shameful.
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Stormonu wrote: So, Corvus Assault Pod = Macross Daedalus Attack? Cool!
Exactly. So imagine a Warlord walking up to a building with enemy troops in it, and punching the building, and Terminators streaming out. It doesn't get any better than that.
One of my favorite titans of all time had the Nurgle head, the rubble claws, Mace tail (Tail 2), 1 macro cannon, 1 powerfist, and 2 multi-launchers I think. I used contour putty to make all sorts of rotting goop and stuff on him. Amateur-ly hideous you might say. But back then we didn't have the skills peeps have today.
I didn't go on a chaos crusade without him. I loved Nurgle in SM1. I named him too but since forgot what it was. I named all my titans actually.
My favorite one was a Stormlord Warlord I called Bruticus. I think I stole that name from Transformers. My new Warlord will be named the same. And then I will enslave you all.
Ok so this is a first for me - but does show why 360 views are important!
I've been trying very hard (for once) to stick to one game and one army and have been doing ok recently stick to Daughters of Khaine. However on the previous page someone linked to the FW red, black and cold titan page. And I got to looking around the FW Warlord for a bit. For the first time (as I'd never really looked at it that close as I was never buying one) I saw the defence guns - the four or so fore and after guns that hang down to give it point defence.
For some reason that tipped me over when I then saw on the AT version those same guns on the rear (I can't quite tell if they are on the forward or not but I think they are there). For some reason that, the little terminal at the back, the railing - all that flew back all those memories of the Imperator (which was my first model desire ever for the whole of wargaming - that one massive model with its castle on it back).
A few moments later and - well - I'm now waiting for a mighty plastic Warlord in the post! The power of NOSTALGIA mixed with newness has worked its magic once more.
Epic was always my first love, in fact I sort of only shifted to 40K slowly by accident as Epic wound down and then died off. This just brings back the old Titan Legions and those epic striding weapons of supreme war! And after 119 pages, rear mounted defence guns, railings, gah I just couldn't resist any more.
I should also point out that between Warlord Reaver Warhound and Imperator the Warlord was always last for me in the favourites list (granted the old warlord was more blocky in design). So I'm SUPER excited for my LEAST favourite titan! (In the Imperial range)
Yeah the Warlord I think has always been the weakest of the designs (whether you are talking about Mk 1, Mk 2, or Mk 3). The original Reaver though - one of my favorite models of all time. Perfect size, look, weight. Love the guy. Doesn't overpower small games, and still plays a part in big ones.
I think the Warlords were fun because of the 4 weapon slots and all the variation of weapons you could do. Throw in a close combat head and a tail on the original one and you have a kickass traitor titan. It even seems the new ones link the carapace ones, so you only have 3 weapon choices (including the arms). Kinda disappointing if that is the case.
zedmeister wrote: That ain't no conversion. Those are genuine parts:
I know, by saying conversion I was referring to some of the added details like the chain to the trident plunged into the dead warhound, or the fumes coming out of the power saw arms, which actually are conversions too, they are different from the genuine power saw component
Reaver I think was great all round; not just in how it was such a versatile toolbox of options (even in the pre-magnet swapping weapons era); but also its weapons were all well sized for it. The old Warlord the upper shoulder guns always looked oddly sized for it, just too big. I think the old one also looked too boxy without the impressive power of the Imperator; whilst lacking the sleeker mobility of the reaver and warhound.
The 40K Warlord, whilst not considered the most popular, I actually liked more than the original as its weapons seemed made for it and in scale.
So yeah the new design really improves in so many areas over the old one! Even those big tripple barrel guns look great on it (and yes I have to look at the fullsize FW one to see them at present - hopefully GW don't make us wait long for the weapon upgrade sprue).
Like several here I was sad that I only ever had the one reaver - now - now I will own more than one!
A few moments later and - well - I'm now waiting for a mighty plastic Warlord in the post! The power of NOSTALGIA mixed with newness has worked its magic once more.
Epic was always my first love, in fact I sort of only shifted to 40K slowly by accident as Epic wound down and then died off. This just brings back the old Titan Legions and those epic striding weapons of supreme war! And after 119 pages, rear mounted defence guns, railings, gah I just couldn't resist any more.
I should also point out that between Warlord Reaver Warhound and Imperator the Warlord was always last for me in the favourites list (granted the old warlord was more blocky in design). So I'm SUPER excited for my LEAST favourite titan! (In the Imperial range)
We all break eventually
The Warlord was naff in 2nd. With the 2+ save reactor housing and 900(!) points cost, it wasn't worth it. If they priced it at 700-750, that'd been better.
Mendi Warrior wrote:I know, by saying conversion I was referring to some of the added details like the chain to the trident plunged into the dead warhound, or the fumes coming out of the power saw arms, which actually are conversions too, they are different from the genuine power saw component
Ah, fair dos. I stand corrected. The chains are now reminding me of an ancient 1990's Golden Daemon entrant who converted 2 Warhounds to look like they're baying and a Warlord holding their leashes
The chains are now reminding me of an ancient 1990's Golden Daemon entrant who converted 2 Warhounds to look like they're baying and a Warlord holding their leashes
Overread wrote: Warships use camouflage to help break up their appearance, I think since around WW1/2 times to present at the very least (if not earlier). So there's argument there for camo on huge targets.
Context is important, a Warlord is vast but it fights in vast environments. The battlefields we setup could be many levels up atop huge hive cities. There is thus still value in camo even if it only has a marginal bonus. Every little bit helps
I agree, but then you have a few Primarchs be stupid enough to say "camouflage is the color of cowardice". So much for superhuman intellect, eh?
To be fair though, Robby G for one wasn't dumb and there are quite a few of camouflage patterns in Codex. Badab War books even have SM in 'modern' ones used in more extreme warzones...
Overread wrote: Warships use camouflage to help break up their appearance, I think since around WW1/2 times to present at the very least (if not earlier). So there's argument there for camo on huge targets.
Context is important, a Warlord is vast but it fights in vast environments. The battlefields we setup could be many levels up atop huge hive cities. There is thus still value in camo even if it only has a marginal bonus. Every little bit helps
I agree, but then you have a few Primarchs be stupid enough to say "camouflage is the color of cowardice". So much for superhuman intellect, eh?
To be fair though, Robby G for one wasn't dumb and there are quite a few of camouflage patterns in Codex. Badab War books even have SM in 'modern' ones used in more extreme warzones...
I suppose one could argue that if you were a superhuman Primarch and never in your formative years had to realistically face a threat that you couldn't just beat down or heal from, you might not see much value in hiding and being sneaky. Sure, maybe on an intellectual level you might see why normal humans might need to, but not you the Primarch or your genetic sons, the Marines.
KTG17 wrote: One of my favorite titans of all time had the Nurgle head, the rubble claws, Mace tail (Tail 2), 1 macro cannon, 1 powerfist, and 2 multi-launchers I think. I used contour putty to make all sorts of rotting goop and stuff on him. Amateur-ly hideous you might say. But back then we didn't have the skills peeps have today.
I didn't go on a chaos crusade without him. I loved Nurgle in SM1. I named him too but since forgot what it was. I named all my titans actually.
My favorite one was a Stormlord Warlord I called Bruticus. I think I stole that name from Transformers. My new Warlord will be named the same. And then I will enslave you all.
I intend on naming all my titans.
I'm currenty putting together random name ideas as they Come to me
Dominus Rex
Divina Irae
Lupus Rex (Proably gonna name a warhound this)
Dominus Bello (roughly translates to "Lord of War" seems amusingly ironic)
Victoria Martia
Maxima Bellator
Ferrus Rex
Promethus (a cookie to the first person to know why)
Mysterio wrote: I hope all of the more esoteric Titan weapons eventually make a return too.
In particular, the Trident, Wrecker and - the best one - the Harpoon!
An excellent conversion I found on the web a while ago, titled "Butcher Titan of Khorne - apocolocyntosis".
That ain't no conversion. Those are genuine parts:
Sorry to burst some bubbles, but those sawblades are from current Ork kits. I can't tell for sure on the right arm, but the left is (with some cutting and filing) from the Killakan kit.
The chains are now reminding me of an ancient 1990's Golden Daemon entrant who converted 2 Warhounds to look like they're baying and a Warlord holding their leashes
Must be this one then
Just love this warhound too
I have that WD I think it was the first GD coverage I had ever seen. It may have been the first WD I ever owned actually. That particular entry was so impressive to me. Really tickled my 12 yr old humour. A titan taking his dogs for a walk
I don't think anything that happens with it now will really boost the chances of Xenos coming in (although if the launch had bombed it would have killed it)
whats going to matter is steady, profit making sales continuing up to the point they've run out of Imperial (and later Chaos) stuff
KTG17 wrote: One of my favorite titans of all time had the Nurgle head, the rubble claws, Mace tail (Tail 2), 1 macro cannon, 1 powerfist, and 2 multi-launchers I think. I used contour putty to make all sorts of rotting goop and stuff on him. Amateur-ly hideous you might say. But back then we didn't have the skills peeps have today.
I didn't go on a chaos crusade without him. I loved Nurgle in SM1. I named him too but since forgot what it was. I named all my titans actually.
My favorite one was a Stormlord Warlord I called Bruticus. I think I stole that name from Transformers. My new Warlord will be named the same. And then I will enslave you all.
I intend on naming all my titans.
I'm currenty putting together random name ideas as they Come to me
Dominus Rex Divina Irae Lupus Rex (Proably gonna name a warhound this) Dominus Bello (roughly translates to "Lord of War" seems amusingly ironic) Victoria Martia Maxima Bellator Ferrus Rex Promethus (a cookie to the first person to know why)
KTG17 wrote: One of my favorite titans of all time had the Nurgle head, the rubble claws, Mace tail (Tail 2), 1 macro cannon, 1 powerfist, and 2 multi-launchers I think. I used contour putty to make all sorts of rotting goop and stuff on him. Amateur-ly hideous you might say. But back then we didn't have the skills peeps have today.
I didn't go on a chaos crusade without him. I loved Nurgle in SM1. I named him too but since forgot what it was. I named all my titans actually.
My favorite one was a Stormlord Warlord I called Bruticus. I think I stole that name from Transformers. My new Warlord will be named the same. And then I will enslave you all.
I intend on naming all my titans.
I'm currenty putting together random name ideas as they Come to me
Dominus Rex Divina Irae Lupus Rex (Proably gonna name a warhound this) Dominus Bello (roughly translates to "Lord of War" seems amusingly ironic) Victoria Martia Maxima Bellator Ferrus Rex Promethus (a cookie to the first person to know why)
anyway just some names I cooked up
Lol. Same for me
Deo Volente (God Willing) Gladio Rex (Sword King) Lupus Seleri (Swift Wolf) Cruento Nox (Bloody Night) Solis Ira (Sun Rage) Urbus Occisor (City Killer) Ferrum Furrore (Iron Fury) Deo Manibus (Hand of God) Sanguis Belleator (Blood Warrior) Ultima Defensionis (Final Defence) Stella Ruptor (Star Breaker) Mortem Advenit (Death Arrives) Dominus Ferro (Lord of Steel) Eius Vindicta (His Vengeance) Fidens Prodigium (Monstrous Truth)
Technically there shouldn't really be capitial letters if were using classical Latin, but I think it looks silly that way.
And I will SUE anyone that steals these names, they are mine!
/Edit - Promethius - the Titan that challenged the Gods (specifically Zeus, the big God).
I don't think anything that happens with it now will really boost the chances of Xenos coming in (although if the launch had bombed it would have killed it)
whats going to matter is steady, profit making sales continuing up to the point they've run out of Imperial (and later Chaos) stuff
If that happens then Xenos have a good shot
That's very unfortunate, 2-3 years means even a hard pass for me. I'm interested in playing now, and not in 2021.
I don't think anything that happens with it now will really boost the chances of Xenos coming in (although if the launch had bombed it would have killed it)
whats going to matter is steady, profit making sales continuing up to the point they've run out of Imperial (and later Chaos) stuff
If that happens then Xenos have a good shot
I'd agree with the timescale. I'd wager we've got at least a full year or so of Imperial focused releases. Following that we'll see Chaos. Now GW could do Chaos in a number of ways. First up there's straight upgrade packs, which would appear to be their intent with making the Warlord modular in its sprue design - so the Chaos would just need a new weapon and armour covering, perhaps with a few details that glue over the base carapace of the model as well.
Now that in itself could just be one chaos sprue; or they could release a couple as each of the 4 gods looks very different (A nurgle titan is going to appear different to a slaanesh).
The next level up from that would be dedicated Chaos titans; things like the Slaanesh hell knights and the banefire and such; units that are totally and utterly warped beyond original recognition.
That could easily eat up a year or more of releases for AT.
I think if all that does well then we will, in around 3 year or so, be in a position where GW will want to expand and the next logical expansion will be toward Xenos. Of course GW could keep expanding the Imperial forces; keep adding more and more titan variations and unique hero titans (we already might see a psywarlord).
It really does depend, but I think the fire in GW is there to take it toward Xeno even if we only go as far as Ork, Eldar and Tyranid. If the game gets continual sales we should get there. One big bonus is that new GW knows that marketing is important to keeping a game alive; that part of the responsibility for a game surviving is the attention they give it. That's why we are seeing them forming dedicated teams within their organisation that are focused on things like specialist games. By having those teams these games keep having a continual interested party in the GW structure to keep content coming; we avoid the mistakes of the past where a special project would be fitted in around other releases work schedules and teams which clearly results in periods where the specialists got ignored for too long that the market lost interest; all because another big project in another line rose its head and took the free specialist development time away.
this last point in itself I think will bode well for AT continuing to get support. The new factory being built should further give it increased stability as that should help boost production at GW and that means more chance to keep things like the starting box in stock long term; not just in production bursts.
AndrewGPaul wrote: I wonder when we’ll see some 3rd party parts to make the Warlord look like the Epic 40,000/Armageddon one?
That'll depend on how big the game is, if it's tiny and niche we might never see it.
If AT becomes absolutely huge, big eneugh that it b ecoems the "third flagship of GW" big, obviously there will be a thriving third party bits market. it all really REALLY depends, one thing to consider is that due to the differant scale of AT from every other game in the GW range right now, anything for AT is dedicated investment for AT and AT alone. course this ALSO goes for GW, The range will be bought to play AT with, which means that if the games not popular people aren't buying the titans up to use as "cultists" or something. Assuming the game is initally received well (and is has been) GW will to my way to thinking need to market AT more agressivly then the other speciality games.
Basicly IMHOAT is gonna be a "go big or go home" game for GW. AT needs to be sucessful, both in terms of the minis and the ruleset.
It also depends what long tern plans GW has already in the works - we know that Reavers, Warhounds and weaponpacks are already being developed and released this year. This would suggest that the development team are now working, if they are still working on AT, on new projects within the game for future release.
GW might also decide that its a viable lower profit lower volume game - that might not affect what we get overall, but could slow the process down. They might also decide that sales are strong enough but that a lack of range variety is holding back further sales and thus they might push more development on the back of good but not oustanding sales with a view that with a wider more complete range the sales will pick up
Overread wrote: It also depends what long tern plans GW has already in the works - we know that Reavers, Warhounds and weaponpacks are already being developed and released this year. This would suggest that the development team are now working, if they are still working on AT, on new projects within the game for future release.
GW might also decide that its a viable lower profit lower volume game - that might not affect what we get overall, but could slow the process down. They might also decide that sales are strong enough but that a lack of range variety is holding back further sales and thus they might push more development on the back of good but not oustanding sales with a view that with a wider more complete range the sales will pick up
I think if I was in charge of AT my expansion plan would go something like this, one all the basic titans are out I'd put out chaos upgrade sprues, proably have 1 for each god, likely have to to those in Resin. I'd then expand to Xenos. well my plans would likely change based off feedback, but Id proably do Orks first as Ork titans are MORE OR LESS like Imperial Titans, genrators shields etc they'd need some additional rules but it's proably comparitively easy to do. introduce Orks with a "Ullanor campaign" box consisting of 2 stompas and a reaver (or something) I know Stompa's are on the small end of Ork titans, but the idea would be to make the box smaller. and priced so that it's a decent buy, this allows Ork players to get in cheaper, and it also means deal hunting players with a Titan army might snag it for the reaver and give orks a try. the problem with expanding a game like AT is you have to assume a good number of your players already have an army, sweet talk em into trying the new one
I appreciate that people may want to see xenos titans, but I don't know why anyone would expect to see xenos in a product expressly set in the Horus Heresy. They've talked about the campaign books on the way to support other Legios and conflicts within the HH. They've hinted at new classes of Imperial titans also. I don't know why the setting would suddenly change and xenos titans to start rolling out in the next 6 to 12 months. *shrug*
gorgon wrote: I appreciate that people may want to see xenos titans, but I don't know why anyone would expect to see xenos in a product expressly set in the Horus Heresy. They've talked about the campaign books on the way to support other Legios and conflicts within the HH. They've hinted at new classes of Imperial titans also. I don't know why the setting would suddenly change and xenos titans to start rolling out in the next 6 to 12 months. *shrug*
Because people want Xenos Titans, though anyone expecting them in the next 6-12 months is clearly off their rocker. It's also not hard to have those campaign books expand far beyond just the Heresy.
gorgon wrote: I appreciate that people may want to see xenos titans, but I don't know why anyone would expect to see xenos in a product expressly set in the Horus Heresy.
Although I don't expect it any time soon, the original Adeptus Titanicus introduced xenos titans in the Horus Heresy setting. Partly it was just like "well, Orks didn't stop having Gargants just because Horus worships Chaos now..." but there were some small specific bits of fluff. Like, the Eldar fought in the Heresy specifically against the Warmaster. There was a quote, as I recall, of an Eldar addressing Imperial command, informing them that the Eldar have no care or concern for the fate if the Imperium, and find themselves aligned only because they oppose Chaos. The idea was that the rise of Horus represented a serious threat to the remaining Eldar, as a new front in their own struggle with chaos.
Honestly I suspect that the only reason to set this during the Heresy is so they they don’t need to make spiky titans just yet: They can have the warmaster’s forces strutting about in perfectly vanilla imperial titans.
That's entirely the reason, and it's a good business decision - the exact same thing was why the Horus Heresy was even invented back in the first days of the original AT. Being able to produce the same kits and equipment in different colour plastic for both sides of a conflict meant far less cost to start the project - particularly when plastic wargaming moulds were new-ish.
They also know how that Horus Heresy is a big fan favourite, so why not double down on this concept. If the game fails, they leave the game mid-production and let it sell at a slow pace for the next 10 years before canning it. If it's successful then they move on. Let's be honest, even if AT is not a massive success it'll sell more than enough to justify the handful of moulds they've done so far.
If the game is a success, some Xenos are pretty likely - but not before 2020. There are a lot of things that have to come first, including weapon packs for all available options. I would also bet on at least two expansion books being in production already, probably with new Titan and/or Knight variants (which will need models).
If all of this goes along with good sales for GW, I assume Xenos at some point in the future - but only Orks and Eldar. Both were common enemies (and sometimes allies) during the time AT is set in. Tyranids were simply not around yet, same for Tau or Necrons. If FW gets ambitious we might see the inclusion of some Xenos we have never heard about or seen in 40K yet, who knows.
All of that should not stop people to play around with "counts as". Orks are not that tough to build models for, and Eldar have things like Wraithguard and Wraithlords that can make excellent "Knights" and "Reavers". Tyranids have a great range of parts one can use for AT-sized creatures. Necrons can kitbash some pretty convincing constructs using the Canoptec Spider and Wraith kits (maybe even the Triarch Stalker).
Sure, all of this would be played using the existing rules for the time being, but using modelling to achieve visual variety still is a part of this hobby. I for one am looking forward to some great "Titan legions" using not a single official AT model.
Darnok wrote: If the game is a success, some Xenos are pretty likely - but not before 2020. There are a lot of things that have to come first, including weapon packs for all available options. I would also bet on at least two expansion books being in production already, probably with new Titan and/or Knight variants (which will need models).
If all of this goes along with good sales for GW, I assume Xenos at some point in the future - but only Orks and Eldar. Both were common enemies (and sometimes allies) during the time AT is set in. Tyranids were simply not around yet, same for Tau or Necrons. If FW gets ambitious we might see the inclusion of some Xenos we have never heard about or seen in 40K yet, who knows.
All of that should not stop people to play around with "counts as". Orks are not that tough to build models for, and Eldar have things like Wraithguard and Wraithlords that can make excellent "Knights" and "Reavers". Tyranids have a great range of parts one can use for AT-sized creatures. Necrons can kitbash some pretty convincing constructs using the Canoptec Spider and Wraith kits (maybe even the Triarch Stalker).
Sure, all of this would be played using the existing rules for the time being, but using modelling to achieve visual variety still is a part of this hobby. I for one am looking forward to some great "Titan legions" using not a single official AT model.
one thing to consider is well AT is set to start with in the heresy era, nothing stops them from advancing the timeline Titans haven't changed a lot in 10,000 years
Regarding the likelihood of third party bits for AT - one thing to bear in mind is how 3D design & printing is changing things. If you want to make bits for an existing system these days, you don't need to do any work yourself beyond sculpting them, you can just upload your designs to Pinshape for people to home-print and Shapeways for those without printers.
I'd wager there are at least one or two folk out there with the right intersection of skills and nostalgia to make things like oldschool carapace replacements quite likely, though the prices will likely make even regular FW customers balk a little.
Not really. In fact, 3d printing is fairly cheap when you need just a small run of a dozen bits, in comparison with traditional manufacturing. It is in huge volume, where printing fails to compete in price.
The main reason Xenos are unlikely until the setting advances past the Heresy is because at the point the Heresy breaks into open conflict the Xenos are either staying in the shadows (Eldar) , not come into contact (Necron, Tau, Tyranids) or been defeated within Imperial space (Orks). Best case is they go for Orks first to get pre heresy battles in and do the Rise of the Beast setting.
I'd guess that expansions and Chaos will take about a year to sort out, and will see the AT: Xenos boxed set in roughly a year - with associated fanfare.
Chaoticus maximus wrote: Have gotten my copy of AT:GME yesterday. Fine so far but they should have hired some proof reader for the german version. It contains some typos in the rule section.
First one says, game size ist 4x4 inches (Zoll), not feet (Fuß).
Second one is a german/english mixture.
I also have the Book. On another Page, they say. You can play on a Standard Warhammer 40000 Table 1,80 x 1,20 if you like. But i'm not at home. Can't say on which page i read it.
Regarding Xenos, Andy Hoare has suggested that they might tackle those later on by advancing the timeline. The War of the Beast was mentioned, to do Orks then. He said it twice during a stream so I guess it's an idea they've bounced around the office before. Mind you he was very clear that this would not be for a while
Yodhrin wrote: Regarding the likelihood of third party bits for AT - one thing to bear in mind is how 3D design & printing is changing things. If you want to make bits for an existing system these days, you don't need to do any work yourself beyond sculpting them, you can just upload your designs to Pinshape for people to home-print and Shapeways for those without printers.
I'd wager there are at least one or two folk out there with the right intersection of skills and nostalgia to make things like oldschool carapace replacements quite likely, though the prices will likely make even regular FW customers balk a little.
I've already seen alternative weapons as 3d print designs advertised on a facebook group (which I suppose is fair enough until the alternative kit comes out) as well as full 3d printed warlord titans (which i personally am not ok with).
I have been thinking that as the grandmaster box has sold out and it seems like there are no immediate plans for a revivial, a second set in 6-8 months set against orks with a 'war of the beast' tagline could be a successful spin-off.
In all honesty i'd rather they backtracked the timeline to great crusade. That way the legios could fight xenos as they conquer worlds. That way a legio mortis/krytos or pre warped traitor legio etc army is not invalidated. If they advance the timeline of the game to post HH then for example my legio mortis army in black/red/gold is going to be worthless for narrative games, or any lore accurate conflicts. I hope AH keeps this in mind, cause it could lead to problems later on. Gryphonicus or a loyalist legio might be a safer choice in the long term if they plan on advancing the timeline instead of going pre HH.
I'd guess that expansions and Chaos will take about a year to sort out, and will see the AT: Xenos boxed set in roughly a year - with associated fanfare.
Well, since this is a Speciallist Game, we may take a look at Necromunda or BB release models - it is core game, and supplements with additional rules and "factions" in them - like Death Season and Gang War books.
It was stated, even in the rulebook, that there are such supplements planned for Titanicus. So, say one-two books with Legio rules and additional weapons, after that expansion into Chaos and late Heresy with warped armor sprues, and probably a book about knight houses, with rules for FW and Dominus chassis. That makes it about four books, and under a dosen boxes with upgrades/models, and should take a year at least.
Thargrim wrote: In all honesty i'd rather they backtracked the timeline to great crusade. That way the legios could fight xenos as they conquer worlds. That way a legio mortis/krytos or pre warped traitor legio etc army is not invalidated. If they advance the timeline of the game to post HH then for example my legio mortis army in black/red/gold is going to be worthless for narrative games, or any lore accurate conflicts. I hope AH keeps this in mind, cause it could lead to problems later on. Gryphonicus or a loyalist legio might be a safer choice in the long term if they plan on advancing the timeline instead of going pre HH.
Not really. You could still play great crusade games vs orks. Or even post horus heresy games vs orks. Who says just because supplement is themed on great beast means you can't use the ork rules pre-heresy? The gargants etc don't really change that much in that time...Or why post-heresy titans couldn't fight orks post-heresy? That's like saying 40k chaos marines can't be used vs orks!
About only really tricky to explain fluffwise would be chaosized titans fighting pre-heresy enemy but rulewise nothing really stops simply using rules of any great crusade aged things on post-heresy.
The thing with Titans is because of the way the Imperium works, Titans basically don't (or are not supposed to) change through the millenniums. So they can easily advance the story setting period without actually having to release any new Imperial titans or change anything. Same for chaos and even the same for the terrain sets. Horus Heresy to the 41st they can just release a single "here's the story now" pack and throw Xenos in.
Or they can add Xeno's one by one almost following the original release schedual - so Orks and Eldar first; followed by the incursion of the Tyranids, the Unveiling of the Necrons, Dark Eldar sweeping in to raid and then the Tau arising with new weapons of mass destruction and war on the fringes.
Reversing the Timeline to the Great Crusade would be possible, but it would be messy. Whilst it would free the designers into making new Xeno races with new Xeno titans and weapons it could also just introduce way too many wildcards and fanbases that would never get 40K models - there'd be less cross game compatibility. Remember part of what makes AT work when Xenos appear is Tyranid players who had no interest in AT now coming on board because AT has Tyranid titans. It makes far more sense to go forward rather than backward.
Heck if they want to add a new Xeno race they could add some from the Battlefleet Gothic - they could even - shock horror - reintroduce the revised Squat faction if they wanted to add new Xenos - plus adding new Xeno in the forwrad timeline means they can add a new race into 40K itself rather than make a Great Crusade game that would compete directly with 40K
Thargrim wrote: In all honesty i'd rather they backtracked the timeline to great crusade. That way the legios could fight xenos as they conquer worlds. That way a legio mortis/krytos or pre warped traitor legio etc army is not invalidated. If they advance the timeline of the game to post HH then for example my legio mortis army in black/red/gold is going to be worthless for narrative games, or any lore accurate conflicts. I hope AH keeps this in mind, cause it could lead to problems later on. Gryphonicus or a loyalist legio might be a safer choice in the long term if they plan on advancing the timeline instead of going pre HH.
Not really. You could still play great crusade games vs orks. Or even post horus heresy games vs orks. Who says just because supplement is themed on great beast means you can't use the ork rules pre-heresy? The gargants etc don't really change that much in that time...Or why post-heresy titans couldn't fight orks post-heresy? That's like saying 40k chaos marines can't be used vs orks!
About only really tricky to explain fluffwise would be chaosized titans fighting pre-heresy enemy but rulewise nothing really stops simply using rules of any great crusade aged things on post-heresy.
There are 2 heads and several carapace components on the warlord sprue, so maybe it is possible to magnetize them for differentiating the eras (unless the colours are completely different, in particular for the other parts that have no alternative components). Maybe worth exploring.
Or, as suggested by Andy Hoare, you can get "several" after Chris Drew explained in the Modelling video that now you can get one while talking of dreaming to own a warlord.
True. Only great crusade themed would be orks but that's bit narrow and really not gamewise different to having grots on great beast era. Does give fluffiwise justification on having chaos titans vs orks though which is plus.
Thought there might be some AT pre-orders from FW this week, specifically thinking about the terrain tiles, but looks like its just Anacharis Scoria. Hoping the terrain tiles don't take too long to come out, as firstly, I don't have any sort of playing board beyond a dining room table right now and secondly it would be nice to have them when I build the scenery kits so I can build them to match the spaces for them on the boards.
In better news, just got dispatch e-mails from Element for my orders, one for the GME and a second for the Civitas Imperialis Sector (and a few other none AT bits and bobs), that just leaves one outstanding order from Goblin (covering my bases as thought I'd missed out on the GME at Element).
Don't think I've been this excited by a new game release since Adeptus Titanicus came out (the first time!).
xttz wrote: If you pre-order direct from GW for delivery to a store, do you get any follow-up confirmation email to say it's definitely arrived?
They should have emailed you tracking information, that you can look at to see if it has been delivered to the store. Mine is scheduled to be delivered at my local GW by the end of today. They also took down my phone number so i'll probably get a call too.
Is it just a UKGW store thing where they dish out your pre-ordered goodies on the Thursday before release as a goodwill gesture for not ordering from a third party?
ListenToMeWarriors wrote: Is it just a UKGW store thing where they dish out your pre-ordered goodies on the Thursday before release as a goodwill gesture for not ordering from a third party?
It's more likely that's just when the stock comes in and the GW store staffer just wants to get rid of it so that he's actually got some space to move. It might also just be that GW isn't "toooo" strict on when pre-ordered products are given out to customers as long as direct sales don't happen until the launch day. Plus a lot of posted and shipped stuff gets sent out earlier so that its got a chance to arrive by the launch date - the stores likely just get it earlier because they are part of the established distrubtion chain (as opposed to private addresses)
ListenToMeWarriors wrote: Is it just a UKGW store thing where they dish out your pre-ordered goodies on the Thursday before release as a goodwill gesture for not ordering from a third party?
My local GW is very strict about street dates and won’t give anyone stuff they have in early.
Thargrim wrote: In all honesty i'd rather they backtracked the timeline to great crusade. That way the legios could fight xenos as they conquer worlds. That way a legio mortis/krytos or pre warped traitor legio etc army is not invalidated. If they advance the timeline of the game to post HH then for example my legio mortis army in black/red/gold is going to be worthless for narrative games, or any lore accurate conflicts. I hope AH keeps this in mind, cause it could lead to problems later on. Gryphonicus or a loyalist legio might be a safer choice in the long term if they plan on advancing the timeline instead of going pre HH.
This is the problem that running a traitor force has in 30k. The heresy is a catalyst for some massive changes especially on the traitor side. Anyone who wants to run a Death guard force all the way from Isstvan to Terra has my sympathies
I do think the Legio's will stay mostly unwarped in the timeline until the siege of Terra. Possibly with a few mutated engines showing up towards the end of the Titan death on Beta Garmon. But after that its gonna be time to start adding spikes and tentacles.
My 40k Warhound is painted in the colours of the Death's Heads, to ally with my Emperor's Children, Cyclothraithe dark mechanicum and House Atrax Knights. That won't stop me using it in 40k (alongside said Knights) with my Elysians and Space Wolves; I'll just mumble a bit when someone asks what legion it's from.
At least by 
Even books 4 and 6 have Knights plastered on the front 
(source: 
