Overread wrote: Well considering how its selling out I don't think its going to be dead on arrival - remembering that its only the core boxed set that is in limited supply right now - the rest will be made and cast up as required
There’s still an easy chance it will be for me, given I have little to no social skills and the only local store is a GW that only allows specialist games to be played on one day a week.
This is looking to be one of those more obscure play it in your basement with a circle of friends type games.
Tamereth wrote: Well this is a bust, was gona pick up a copy if I could get it for £140 or less.
Goblin gaming & darksphere didn't even list it
Wayland and firestorm have it at full price (bloody scalpers)
Element games sold out inside of a minute
and the outpost website died hard.
Guess I'll be waiting six months for the reprint.
Lvlup still have 25% off, and allegedly 19 in stock as of thirty seconds ago?
Me, I’m plumping just for the rules, a Warlord and a Knight Banner. Five or six local lads also buying in, so that should be plenty for me.
Lvlup still have 25% off, and allegedly 19 in stock as of thirty seconds ago?
Me, I’m plumping just for the rules, a Warlord and a Knight Banner. Five or six local lads also buying in, so that should be plenty for me.
They are at £147.5, seems 18 remaining. EDIT: down to 14 since I started writing
UK shipping only it seems. Their shipping policy states "All orders over £75 will receive free shipping, while anything under £75 will just be £4. This is for UK shipping only, unfortunately at this time we are unable to ship overseas."
Tamereth wrote: Well this is a bust, was gona pick up a copy if I could get it for £140 or less.
Goblin gaming & darksphere didn't even list it
Wayland and firestorm have it at full price (bloody scalpers)
Element games sold out inside of a minute
and the outpost website died hard.
Guess I'll be waiting six months for the reprint.
Would those at full price have sacrificed discounts for more quantities? By the way, Wayland had 5% discount via summersaver coupon.
I read somewhere 30 copies were available at Element Games, maybe the deal was "you'll get higher allocations if no discounts", I don't know.
Anyway, it seems a successful launch, now let's hope it develops into a successful long-term game
Well despite costing the equivalent of £282 the Japanese version of the grand master edition is already sold out! I wonder how many they made for the Japanese market.
A local store was saying that they had to pre-pay for all their copies of the GME box before pre-orders went up. That means most stores will be limited by how much cash they're willing to risk on stock.
A quick check on GWUK, France, Germany, Japan websites show the GME and Titanicus collection bundle all sold out, there are still some left in Australia and New Zealand
Mendi Warrior wrote: A quick check on GWUK, France, Germany, Japan websites show the GME and Titanicus collection bundle all sold out, there are still some left in Australia and New Zealand
Not bad. Yet again, I suspect GW underestimated the popularity and appeal of Epic, not to mention the number of older Epic gamers keen to get their hands on this
This is looking to be one of those more obscure play it in your basement with a circle of friends type games.
I'd argue playing at a GW is the obscure way to play. Houses and clubs is where most gaming happens
Well, I’ve been in the hobby maybe 4 years and haven’t really gotten past pickup games at the GW.
Little to no social skills, like I said. Playing with friends requires friends.
I've been in the hobby, on and off, for maybe 25 - 30 years, only games I ever played were at a GW. I had a great desire at one point to join a gaming club or something but I never did. I never played with friends, I had enough of them but no-one was interested. Couldn't blame them really, they're just toy soldiers until they're painted up nicely, then they become somewhat artistic. So I just accepted that I'd be a painter and it was all good, I get quite good at painting and tbh, when I watch a Youtube game report, the games seems kind of boring anyway. Monopoly or Poker or chess all more appealing.
No reason why it would be bogus, this has been marketed and hyped well. Even if people tend to groan about the price, there are many who still buy the thing because they really want it and go "ah what the hell, I'll live" while ordering it anyway. 20 000 is not much.
xttz wrote: I guess the "20,000 copies" rumour was bogus then
Why?
The first new Space Hulk Edition shipped 74k copies in a similar amount of time.
In 2009 they had tons of Space Hulk boxes going to all GW stores (the one I got mine from had at least 30 on display). The Grand Master Edition had nothing in most (all?) stores, and very limited stock going to most independent retailers (most I've seen received between 5 and 30 copies). Plus it went to completely out of stock very shortly after the 'first 1000' coins sold out.
Goblin had it listed still at 10:05 ? At 10:00 they had stock at 157 units. Only know because I was going to orde then saw they'd only let you order one so had to go elsewhere. Firestorm had it up way before 10 though , but full price. If goblin had 157 then not sure why outpost onky had 50.... unless they've been naughty and took preorders prior to launch which a lot of bricks and mortar did.
That and apparently some stores didnt know how few they would actually get, our local was going to order in 20, got told they could only have 5 copies, had to beg them to at least let him get 11 copies in.
This is looking to be one of those more obscure play it in your basement with a circle of friends type games.
I'd argue playing at a GW is the obscure way to play. Houses and clubs is where most gaming happens
Absolutely the model for the UK, absolutely the reverse in the US, where a factor of distances and so on means that store games, be it indy or GW, are, I would argue, far more popular than going to each other's houses or setting up a club elsewhere.
And looks like the 'dead on arrival' folks were waaaaaaay off with this.
Interestingly, the old knights doesn't seem to be much smaller than the new ones...
Yeah, the thing about old school AT was that the Titans were closer to 3mm scale than 6, never mind 8, so the knights, which were in 6mm, ended up almost the same size as the Warhound class…
Interestingly, the old knights doesn't seem to be much smaller than the new ones...
Yeah, the thing about old school AT was that the Titans were closer to 3mm scale than 6, never mind 8, so the knights, which were in 6mm, ended up almost the same size as the Warhound class…
Which at least means I'll be getting some knights for my Epic games. Seeing as the new Warlord doesn't seem to be horribly bigger than the old Imperator means I might get some titans too after all.
GME still feels too expensive for what you get for one player, at least one like me who doesn't want two Warlords either way.
mjl7atlas wrote: So is there a difference between the warlord and knights in the GME and the individual boxes?
Nope the boxed set is just the individual stuff in a single box with one free warlord titan.
Note that the warlord separate kit doesn't have the control counters and cards for it; you get that in the commandpack which has the rules and the counters and tokens and such
mjl7atlas wrote: So is there a difference between the warlord and knights in the GME and the individual boxes?
Nope the boxed set is just the individual stuff in a single box with one free warlord titan.
Note that the warlord separate kit doesn't have the control counters and cards for it; you get that in the commandpack which has the rules and the counters and tokens and such
To clarify, you get 2 command terminal cards for each kind of titan and all the tokens in the rules box. The command pack just lets you buy extra.
Mendi Warrior wrote: Interesting vid as the new warlord stands next to the old original one and a couple of paladin knights
Interestingly, the old knights doesn't seem to be much smaller than the new ones...
Did he show the new Knights in that vid? I didn't see it (skipped through, twice). To me the new knights seem to be halfway between the old Knight and the old reaver (from the look of that old reaver he has there).
Mendi Warrior wrote: Interesting vid as the new warlord stands next to the old original one and a couple of paladin knights
Interestingly, the old knights doesn't seem to be much smaller than the new ones...
Did he show the new Knights in that vid? I didn't see it (skipped through, twice). To me the new knights seem to be halfway between the old Knight and the old reaver (from the look of that old reaver he has there).
Unfortunately not.
He has also another video where he plays a battle with the old paladin knights and an imperator standing as a warlord, the new warlord is bulkier than the imperator, posted earlier by Sherrypie
Got a bit worried tonight when I checked the Aussie GW website and found most stuff still available. Good to know the sticker shock isn't quite so severe elsewhere in the world. Annoying for us locals, but promising for the success of the game.
Actually the AUD price of the GME isn't what bothers me--I can't buy it myself because my budget doesn't stretch that far, even going halves with someone, but it looks like a fairly good deal.
The price of the single Warlord, on the other hand... ouch.
Rules look reasonably priced even direct from GW given they include plastic and cards as well as the hardback. Hope to pick them up to use with my old Epic minis.
Painfully tempted by those size comparison shots of Marines beside the new Titans, though...
New Knights might perhaps work as proxy Slaaneshi Scout Titans for Epic.
Terrain is a bit more exxy than I hoped. I agree the boxy look isn't great, but it should work well for both destructible terrain* and placing Epic minis on the roof.
I wonder how 40K Ork kits would look if proxied as Gargants? e.g. the Stompa?
Albertorius wrote: Interestingly, the old knights doesn't seem to be much smaller than the new ones...
Did he show the new Knights in that vid? I didn't see it (skipped through, twice). To me the new knights seem to be halfway between the old Knight and the old reaver (from the look of that old reaver he has there).
Unfortunately not.
He has also another video where he plays a battle with the old paladin knights and an imperator standing as a warlord, the new warlord is bulkier than the imperator, posted earlier by Sherrypie
Hm... these would be the new ones, I guess we can do some comparisons:
If those are the same bases (and they probably are) I was quite wrong: the new knights do seem to be significantly bigger. Their footprint will be quite similar, though.
If those are the same bases (and they probably are) I was quite wrong: the new knights do seem to be significantly bigger. Their footprint will be quite similar, though.
He mentions in the video that he based the paladin knights on similarly-sized bases as the new knights and they are about 2/3 of the new ones (around 11:25 in the vid)
JWBS wrote: Did he show the new Knights in that vid? I didn't see it (skipped through, twice). To me the new knights seem to be halfway between the old Knight and the old reaver (from the look of that old reaver he has there).
1. No he didn’t but he does have the old plastic ones on 40mm bases. The new ones are about the same height but bulkier.
2. Hah! That was a ‘classic’ “beetleback” Warlord, not a Reaver. Old tiny Titans be extra-tiny…
Mysterio wrote: But until then, I'll enjoy some nice Titan vs. Titan battles!
I ain't waiting. I've broke out some of my old 6mm Forgeworld Baneblades, Shadowswords and Stormblades and am busy painting them up. Planning to adapt the Knight banner card for a super heavy tank company complete with volcano cannons, plasma blastguns and baneblade cannons
JWBS wrote: Did he show the new Knights in that vid? I didn't see it (skipped through, twice). To me the new knights seem to be halfway between the old Knight and the old reaver (from the look of that old reaver he has there).
1. No he didn’t but he does have the old plastic ones on 40mm bases. The new ones are about the same height but bulkier.
2. Hah! That was a ‘classic’ “beetleback” Warlord, not a Reaver. Old tiny Titans be extra-tiny…
Lol. Well spotted. So a new Knight is 2/3 of an old Warlord?
Mattlov wrote: Still not even showing up for pre-order on the US site.
US pre-orders go live at 1 PM EST and 10 AM PST.
Already decided to skip the GME. But have been waffling on whether to get the rules set and either a warlord or a couple of banner boxes. While antidotally it seems it is selling well, GW is certainly in a position to manipulate the supply to make it appear more limited than it actually is. Also, still worried that this is a niche line in an already niche hobby. Thus very hesitant to invest much.
So, just watched the Lets Play vid myself, and it has really put me off buying the GME set if i am honest.
The standard Warlord loadout practically did nothing to the other "proxied" Warlord over the course of 5 turns, which to me means that all current games (until other Titans and weapons are released) are going to get pretty repetitive early on due to everything revolving around a handful of objectives which you're likely just going to be picking the same ones every time.
It did seem like a very quick game though at skirmish level, though it did feel like it lacked depth.
Does anyone know what a standard "point" game is going to be? I'm liking the look of some of those set maniples, but, i get the impression that you'll be looking at 2000 points plus to max them out, and then the min size ones look to have a massive points differences between them.
Not sure how much that was due to volcanos being quiet all the time. They so bad at stripping shields?
But then again 1vs1 games tend to be unbloody ln many gamesets. Which is why i chuckle at the idea of skipping grandmaster edition as "i need only 1 warlord". In practice you will want more than 1 titan per side anyway. If you start the game might just as well get the free warlord as you will likely use 2 warlords anyway
tneva82 wrote: Not sure how much that was due to volcanos being quiet all the time. They so bad at stripping shields?
It's pointless blasting a macro weapon to drop a single shield. Even more so if you're overtaxing the reactor to drop a single shield that he'd repair next round anyway. It's always been that way in Epic. Get rid of the shields with the high rate of fire weaker weapons (gatling blasters, mega bolters, etc) and then deal the devastating blow with the volcano cannons, deathstrike cannons, plasma annihilators, etc.
As an aside, I'm realising how straight forward it is to expand the game into using conventional ground forces. All it'd take is a data sheet, aka Knight Banner card, and you're set. Imagine a super heavy tank company, Land Raider company, Space Marine battle company, etc. The high strength Titan weapons will be contrasted against the lower strength weapons of things like Land Raiders. Though they'll be more manoeuvrable and more numerous.
Kdash wrote: So, just watched the Lets Play vid myself, and it has really put me off buying the GME set if i am honest.
The standard Warlord loadout practically did nothing to the other "proxied" Warlord over the course of 5 turns, which to me means that all current games (until other Titans and weapons are released) are going to get pretty repetitive early on due to everything revolving around a handful of objectives which you're likely just going to be picking the same ones every time.
It did seem like a very quick game though at skirmish level, though it did feel like it lacked depth.
Does anyone know what a standard "point" game is going to be? I'm liking the look of some of those set maniples, but, i get the impression that you'll be looking at 2000 points plus to max them out, and then the min size ones look to have a massive points differences between them.
Just watched that video as well and calling back to the GW's twitch stream game, the big difference was the inclusion of the Reaver in lieu of a banner of knights. which at least hinted at the tactical depth. I think your observation and concerns are spot on that game play initially will be somewhat stale unless you proxy while waiting for the other titans and weapon options to be released.
tneva82 wrote: Not sure how much that was due to volcanos being quiet all the time. They so bad at stripping shields?
But then again 1vs1 games tend to be unbloody ln many gamesets. Which is why i chuckle at the idea of skipping grandmaster edition as "i need only 1 warlord". In practice you will want more than 1 titan per side anyway. If you start the game might just as well get the free warlord as you will likely use 2 warlords anyway
I think it was because each Volcano Cannon requiring a reactor boost, then needing to hit and then at best counting as 2 hits apiece, which would have been ignored on a 3+. It also means that after a couple of turns you're either going to be at max reactor and taking damage or you'll not be repairing your own shields. That, and the odds of dropping 4 shield points and then doing the damage to blow up the Warlord with targeted body section hits in a 4-5 turn game seems unlikely.
I think Knights will do a lot more work than people realise, if they can get within the 2"s to ignore the void shields - but, as the Volcano cannons are so much better at destroying the Knights than taking away void shields, they prob won't get to do that work most of the time until the other stuff gets released.
tneva82 wrote: Not sure how much that was due to volcanos being quiet all the time. They so bad at stripping shields?
It's pointless blasting a macro weapon to drop a single shield. Even more so if you're overtaxing the reactor to drop a single shield that he'd repair next round anyway. It's always been that way in Epic. Get rid of the shields with the high rate of fire weaker weapons (gatling blasters, mega bolters, etc) and then deal the devastating blow with the volcano cannons, deathstrike cannons, plasma annihilators, etc.
As an aside, I'm realising how straight forward it is to expand the game into using conventional ground forces. All it'd take is a data sheet, aka Knight Banner card, and you're set. Imagine a super heavy tank company, Land Raider company, Space Marine battle company, etc. The high strength Titan weapons will be contrasted against the lower strength weapons of things like Land Raiders. Though they'll be more manoeuvrable and more numerous.
This.
Getting the right load out is part of the challenge. All power strikers, and you won’t tickle shields. Too much rapid fire, and you’ll struggle with a killing blow.
Plus if you load up your titans to a highly specialist loadout you might be able to inflict damage fast, but if you lose one you could end up being able to take out shields fast but do little damage after; or able to knock out armour but unable to do much to the sheilds.
I think the fact that you can't just fire away and blast the opponent off the table is good; it means that objectives become a very powerful part of the game; making terrain, setup and how you choose to play very key parts
Also don't forget early games in any system with people new to a game are often some of the least tactical as the players are still half learning the game itself.
tneva82 wrote: Not sure how much that was due to volcanos being quiet all the time. They so bad at stripping shields?
But then again 1vs1 games tend to be unbloody ln many gamesets. Which is why i chuckle at the idea of skipping grandmaster edition as "i need only 1 warlord". In practice you will want more than 1 titan per side anyway. If you start the game might just as well get the free warlord as you will likely use 2 warlords anyway
I think it was because each Volcano Cannon requiring a reactor boost, then needing to hit and then at best counting as 2 hits apiece, which would have been ignored on a 3+. It also means that after a couple of turns you're either going to be at max reactor and taking damage or you'll not be repairing your own shields. That, and the odds of dropping 4 shield points and then doing the damage to blow up the Warlord with targeted body section hits in a 4-5 turn game seems unlikely.
I think Knights will do a lot more work than people realise, if they can get within the 2"s to ignore the void shields - but, as the Volcano cannons are so much better at destroying the Knights than taking away void shields, they prob won't get to do that work most of the time until the other stuff gets released.
Yeah but alternative was what happened. Missiles binked shields, they got up, repeat. Or was the player seriously unlucky? With more titans sure save volcanos but 1vs1 seems you will be just praying for super round from missiles if you want to cause damage.
Not forgetting combined arms becomes important. You can then have a Titan designed purely to deliver the killing blow at long range whilst having other Titans as shield strippers. Of course, a shield stripper Titan is a good way to stress your opponent. Divert their repair rolls or force them to overload their reactor to brace their shields. And that's even before you deploy the shield ignoring warp missile!
Not forgetting that Titan with dual power claws or the reaver with twin melta cannons flanking around the place!
I got it! With the coin! Haha- haha- ha aha - hahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahhahahaha
Seriously can't believe I paid $290 for this but oh well. I have the 4 previous versions of Epic, might as well have this.
I happened to notice that the modular buildings seem to be built around the same size square sections for the roofs. If I didn't know better, this almost seems like a nod to the old Space Marine square bases, as they look like they would easily hold them. If they do expand this system to include infantry, I imagine they would go with the square bases versus the more recent rectangle versions of Epic40k and EpicA.
Very happy the launch is a success, I was worried this was going to be a “one and done”. I can’t afford it nor make the time to build, paint and play it atm but I’d love to buy it sometime next year if I manage to squeeze it in.
Wow, glad I manged to get some sneaky internet time at work this morning to grab the GME.
Even with the scale change the size comparison shots of the new Warlord really ram home just how undersized the old model was. Maybe GW could do rules for a scout Titan with four hardpoints so people could use them
Yep, it looks like its is going to be a reasonable seller, just like the old Adeptus Titanicus. I would like to be able to buy in, but can't for a while, and will seek heavy discount.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also it doesnt appear that you have weapon options in the box. when paying that much for titans I would like plug in weapons like old school warlords had.
Ordo Sinister is/was made up of 25 Warlord Class Titan. I think in the old fluff Emperor class were referenced but that's now overwritten by the Forge World black book 7 / Vol 41 Master of Mankind Heresy series.
Orlanth wrote: Yep, it looks like its is going to be a reasonable seller, just like the old Adeptus Titanicus. I would like to be able to buy in, but can't for a while, and will seek heavy discount.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also it doesnt appear that you have weapon options in the box. when paying that much for titans I would like plug in weapons like old school warlords had.
They're designed for magnets so you'll be able to swap loadouts that way
Equally unfortunately, I pre-ordered 1x Warlord Titan and 2x of the big terrain boxes (Civitas Imperialis Sector @ £60 a pop ...)
I know ... more than the GME, but I don't need the rules yet, or particularly want the Knights ... I basically (right now ...) want a city and a Warlord.
If SELWG adopt AT, I'll add the rules, but I've not been playing anything for ages (don't tell Vanguard that ... they must think I run a 24/7 Epic game somewhere in the depths of Lewisham).
I'm extremely happy the launch has (apparently) gone so well. I definitely see full-blown official Epic coming.
Orlanth wrote: Yep, it looks like its is going to be a reasonable seller, just like the old Adeptus Titanicus. I would like to be able to buy in, but can't for a while, and will seek heavy discount.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also it doesnt appear that you have weapon options in the box. when paying that much for titans I would like plug in weapons like old school warlords had.
They're designed for magnets so you'll be able to swap loadouts that way
Think he was refering to the fact very expensive box doesn't come with any options but instead you have to pay X pounds for yet another product to get them. Which isn't even out yet
Looking over everything I am going to wait and see how it evolves, I can afford it but its just another game to try and fit in - and I have dozens of those.
The Models look good but are expensive - but hey GW.
Looking forward to seeing what they come up as it grows though.
Played a demo game today, was a lot of fun even if it was just Warlord vs Warlord. We really, really enjoyed it even as severly limited as that, we could clearly see how more models and movement is going to make for an excellent, and tactical, game.
Splitting a GM box and an extra rules set with a mate, after our locals 20% discount it comes to about £85 each.
Just because sharing is caring, saw these while doing a quick search for potential terrain. They're for DZC, which I believe is technically 10mm, but I don't thing it'd notice too much.
I bet that second story isn't glued on, just stacked. I'm going to build mine planning ahead for that so the doors are going to be carefully placed and certain ones are for sure going to be made as the ground level.
It's a small processing unit that deals with the local collection and distribution of written articles as produced by the Imperium related to the moral of His most loyal Legion. That door opens at the terminus of each solar day to allow a transport unit to collect those papers and carry them forth to the Regiments.
It's a flat balcony window; the mighty doors open to reveal a large window with a small railing; allowing those within to take pause in the days duties and to bask in the light of civilization that the most Holy Emperor has brought to this world.
Kdash wrote: So, just watched the Lets Play vid myself, and it has really put me off buying the GME set if i am honest.
The standard Warlord loadout practically did nothing to the other "proxied" Warlord over the course of 5 turns, which to me means that all current games (until other Titans and weapons are released) are going to get pretty repetitive early on due to everything revolving around a handful of objectives which you're likely just going to be picking the same ones every time.
It did seem like a very quick game though at skirmish level, though it did feel like it lacked depth.
Does anyone know what a standard "point" game is going to be? I'm liking the look of some of those set maniples, but, i get the impression that you'll be looking at 2000 points plus to max them out, and then the min size ones look to have a massive points differences between them.
Just watched that video as well and calling back to the GW's twitch stream game, the big difference was the inclusion of the Reaver in lieu of a banner of knights. which at least hinted at the tactical depth. I think your observation and concerns are spot on that game play initially will be somewhat stale unless you proxy while waiting for the other titans and weapon options to be released.
Ive watched GMGs demo game from earlier today, and WarhammerTVs game previously this week and both was 1v1 with a lance of knights. Not much firepower and not enough moving pieces to offer a lot of strategy, but what these demos does show (IMO) is that the game and mechanics offer a lot of depth and strategy. Using orders to good effect and knowing when to push the reactor seem to be the two biggest choices a player has to make but movement and positioning is as important as ever.
The fact that the titans can take huge amounts of fire without going down is what makes this game interesting.
I agree that 1v1 battles will become repetitive quickly though, looking forward to seeing full scale games when people start getting their hands on the products.
Overread wrote: It's a small processing unit that deals with the local collection and distribution of written articles as produced by the Imperium related to the moral of His most loyal Legion. That door opens at the terminus of each solar day to allow a transport unit to collect those papers and carry them forth to the Regiments.
It's a flat balcony window; the mighty doors open to reveal a large window with a small railing; allowing those within to take pause in the days duties and to bask in the light of civilization that the most Holy Emperor has brought to this world.
lol
- for a bridge linking two buildings
- to allow proper hanging of traitors (suffice to add gallows)
Thargrim wrote: I bet that second story isn't glued on, just stacked. I'm going to build mine planning ahead for that so the doors are going to be carefully placed and certain ones are for sure going to be made as the ground level.
or maybe simply reflecting some real architectural mistakes
Why is there a huge door opening into the air? Because the Emperor has decreed that it is so, all praise his name
(The plans are from a slightly damages STC)
During the terrible winter snow drifts many stories deep build up around the buildings on the outskirts of the hive, which have strategically placed extra doors to allow the workers to enter and exit as normal
Nah it's probably like a sweatshop in there where people toil away knitting imperial uniforms. Anyone who passes out from exhaustion or dies gets hurled out the door into the curb below where corpse cars drive around and pick up those not strong enough to meet the demands of the planetary governor.
Anyone feel like speculating about the price of the Reavers and Warhounds? If the Warlord is £65, I'm guessing £50 for the former and £35 for the latter.
Orlanth wrote: Also it doesnt appear that you have weapon options in the box. when paying that much for titans I would like plug in weapons like old school warlords had.
Misread that last word as 'head', and was reminded that at least one of those Warlord plug-in weapons back in the day was a giant cannon that went onto the head hardpoint.
The warhounds might be sold in pairs and also come with all of their basic weapon options, plus the picture points to multiple armor plates for loyalist/heretics. They could be knight armiger priced or maybe slightly less.
Thargrim wrote: The warhounds might be sold in pairs and also come with all of their basic weapon options, plus the picture points to multiple armor plates for loyalist/heretics. They could be knight armiger priced or maybe slightly less.
I doubt this. Okay, pairs maybe but not the entire weapons loadout. They'd be limiting sales and GW would never do that. I expect we'll get resin weapon packs akin to what's being done for Necromunda.
Far as I recall hearing/reading the weapon packs for the Warlord are plastic not resin.
I think if we see resin weapons - at least for the warlord- it might only be alternative sculpts (eg early chaos release) or unique weapons not currently featured in the game
Thargrim wrote: The warhounds might be sold in pairs and also come with all of their basic weapon options, plus the picture points to multiple armor plates for loyalist/heretics. They could be knight armiger priced or maybe slightly less.
I doubt this. Okay, pairs maybe but not the entire weapons loadout. They'd be limiting sales and GW would never do that. I expect we'll get resin weapon packs akin to what's being done for Necromunda.
Well at the very least we've seen the turbo laser cannons, mega bolter and plasma cannon in plastic. The inferno cannon might also be on the sprue but chris drew the designer who painted those Krytos warhounds simply didn't use it, and also chose to use the more chaosy armor plating. There might only be one of these each per warhound sprue though so with one sprue you couldn't double up on the weapons. Regardless I expect a lot more on the warhounds next weekend at the whfest.
Thargrim wrote: The warhounds might be sold in pairs and also come with all of their basic weapon options, plus the picture points to multiple armor plates for loyalist/heretics. They could be knight armiger priced or maybe slightly less.
I'd bet packs of 2 for knight armanger prices yeah. it seems reasonable
richstrach wrote: Anyone feel like speculating about the price of the Reavers and Warhounds? If the Warlord is £65, I'm guessing £50 for the former and £35 for the latter.
Pure speculation (as requested): My Warlord cost £52, not £65.
The 3x-pack Knights is £16.
I honestly don't see the Reaver costing more than £20, and IMO probably £16 - £18 at "most" (online, non-GW, with 20% discount). That's IMO "per" Reaver ...
Kdash wrote: So, just watched the Lets Play vid myself, and it has really put me off buying the GME set if i am honest.
The standard Warlord loadout practically did nothing to the other "proxied" Warlord over the course of 5 turns, which to me means that all current games (until other Titans and weapons are released) are going to get pretty repetitive early on due to everything revolving around a handful of objectives which you're likely just going to be picking the same ones every time.
It did seem like a very quick game though at skirmish level, though it did feel like it lacked depth.
Does anyone know what a standard "point" game is going to be? I'm liking the look of some of those set maniples, but, i get the impression that you'll be looking at 2000 points plus to max them out, and then the min size ones look to have a massive points differences between them.
Just watched that video as well and calling back to the GW's twitch stream game, the big difference was the inclusion of the Reaver in lieu of a banner of knights. which at least hinted at the tactical depth. I think your observation and concerns are spot on that game play initially will be somewhat stale unless you proxy while waiting for the other titans and weapon options to be released.
Honestly I think this is just how things are with the reincarnated Specialist Games. Anyone buying in within the first 6-12 months with the intention of actually gaming straight away just has to accept the fact you're basically buying the "Early Access" version with all that entails. It's a strategy that seems to work well for GW, since they can roll up a decent initial return on investment from early adopters, maintain a reasonable stream of revenue from those of the first group who stay aboard the hype train and from folk buying just the models, and then they get a second spike down the road when they release a "complete" version of the rules and initial model range and folk who were holding off because of perceived lack of value or because they didn't want to risk buying in to an "unfinished" game in case it bombed fully buy-in.
I might not personally like the model since I'm firmly in the "I want a set of rules complete enough that it's satisfying to play for years even if GW drop support" camp so have to wait around to get games in for a lot of stuff, but it is what it is and I'd rather have these games back in this format, frustrating wait and all, than not have them at all. On the plus side, AT looks like it will hit that "as complete as the original" stage a lot quicker than Necromunda will, since we should have all three main classes of Titan plus a varied selection of weapons for them by the end of this year, and it seems as if the core rules for AT are a far more complete product than N17 to begin with.
EDIT: And I think expecting to pay 20 quid or less for a Reaver is...optimistic, to say the least. I'd be shocked if the GW price was less than £40, probably more like £45. Around £20-25(RRP) is more where I expect the price of a Warhound if they sell them in singles, or basically the same price as the Reaver box if sold as a pair.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: Why is there a huge door opening into the air? Because the Emperor has decreed that it is so, all praise his name
(The plans are from a slightly damages STC)
During the terrible winter snow drifts many stories deep build up around the buildings on the outskirts of the hive, which have strategically placed extra doors to allow the workers to enter and exit as normal
Alternatively:
"Adept Procrastinus, your work has come to the attention of the Adeptus Prioris. Please proceed with haste up the stairs and through the red doors."
MajorWesJanson wrote: I'd expect warhound at 2 for $75 with probably all 4 weapons for each, and $65 to $75 for the reaver with 3 or 4 arm weapons and apoc carapace mount
Sounds about right to me. given what we've already seen it feels right. I'm hoping we see the Warlord and Knight weapon upgrade sprues soon (if they exist). Honestly I'm more excited to use them for a Knight World army for Epic than anything else.
MajorWesJanson wrote: I'd expect warhound at 2 for $75 with probably all 4 weapons for each, and $65 to $75 for the reaver with 3 or 4 arm weapons and apoc carapace mount
The reaver sprue is already out there. 2 guns, Gatling Blaster and Laser Blaster. 1 Power Fist with option for close and open palm.
BrianDavion wrote: So anyone know what the Legio specific abilities etc are? I'm curious
Legio Gryphonicus’ main trait is basically “loadsa reavers” – when forming a Maniple you can trade one Warlord or Warhound slot for a Reaver and when you do there are wargear options to create an up-armoured but slower Reaver and a faster, more manoeuvrable one. Also, you have the option of choosing a specific enemy for each of your Titans to try to take down, and get re-rolls and extra damage, but no-one else in your force can attack that specific enemy Titan.
The Legio Tempestus can deploy Titans by drop-pod(!) (up to Scale 6 or less, so no Warlords), get to re-roll certain results on the machine spirit table, and can make a free attack when they take catastrophic damage. Their big wargear thing is they get Clan ER lasers as an option.
Overread wrote: Far as I recall hearing/reading the weapon packs for the Warlord are plastic not resin.
I think if we see resin weapons - at least for the warlord- it might only be alternative sculpts (eg early chaos release) or unique weapons not currently featured in the game
Resin ones are the more unusual like warp missiles
well, I've decided to wait for the reprint next year. damn car had to have issues and ate up all of my discretionary funds. I was gonna just bite the bullet but damn starter(car).
i guess I'll just buy the reaver & warhounds when they come out.
even with that, I am thoroughly impressed by the game system and how the damage and shields work. pushing the reactor is an interesting mechanic.
MajorWesJanson wrote: I'd expect warhound at 2 for $75 with probably all 4 weapons for each, and $65 to $75 for the reaver with 3 or 4 arm weapons and apoc carapace mount
The reaver sprue is already out there. 2 guns, Gatling Blaster and Laser Blaster. 1 Power Fist with option for close and open palm.
I hope I'm not imagining it but does that piece in the bottom left look like the muzzles of a carapace mounted mega bolter?
The Legio Tempestus can deploy Titans by drop-pod(!) (up to Scale 6 or less, so no Warlords)
Pure speculation: a FW titan drop pod model? One for warhounds, one for reavers? Stretching it, one for knights?
In view of the Warlord at £65, I would not be surprised to see the Reaver around £50-55 and a pair of warhounds around £40-45. So £20-22.5 if sold alone. I also envision all 4 weapon types being present in the set. For the reaver the sprue is out there.
Mendi Warrior wrote: Pure speculation: a FW titan drop pod model? One for warhounds, one for reavers? Stretching it, one for knights?
While I haven't seen the rules yet, given what I've read in the BL books, I'd say this is unlikely.
Titans don't just hop out of drop pods, ala Space Marines.
Unlikely indeed, but for Reavers and Warhounds from Legio Tempestus, the rule exists as pointed out by Mr_Rose. So that is an example of a very specific product that I would see in resin rather than plastic. Extremely limited as far as who can use it, probably just "nice to have" for a visual effect (unless an expansion adds some kind of support rules). As I said, pure speculation from my part.
MajorWesJanson wrote: I'd expect warhound at 2 for $75 with probably all 4 weapons for each, and $65 to $75 for the reaver with 3 or 4 arm weapons and apoc carapace mount
The reaver sprue is already out there. 2 guns, Gatling Blaster and Laser Blaster. 1 Power Fist with option for close and open palm.
I hope I'm not imagining it but does that piece in the bottom left look like the muzzles of a carapace mounted mega bolter?
No, that's the back exhausts of the apoc missile launcher.
MajorWesJanson wrote: I'd expect warhound at 2 for $75 with probably all 4 weapons for each, and $65 to $75 for the reaver with 3 or 4 arm weapons and apoc carapace mount
The reaver sprue is already out there. 2 guns, Gatling Blaster and Laser Blaster. 1 Power Fist with option for close and open palm.
I hope I'm not imagining it but does that piece in the bottom left look like the muzzles of a carapace mounted mega bolter?
I am afraid that part is only the back of the missile pod.
There are a couple of examples in the Heresy series of Titans deploying from landing pods , Usyally ends badly if not supported. The landers are heavily armoured so as cover etc they could add an interesting aspect to the game. In one novel a Titan fires its main weapon whilst on board a transport. At infantry. On the same transport.
Knights have Drop Castles - now that could be a sweet model (or board )
Definitely, some people will scratch-build such models, that would indeed be sweet
For what it's worth, the reaver's head and weapons sprue with coloured dots for the components of the head and the different weapons (no dots = no idea where it goes)
Mendi Warrior wrote: Pure speculation: a FW titan drop pod model? One for warhounds, one for reavers? Stretching it, one for knights?
While I haven't seen the rules yet, given what I've read in the BL books, I'd say this is unlikely.
Titans don't just hop out of drop pods, ala Space Marines.
he likely used drop pods to simplify, remember the post we're getting the term drop pods from Also refered to someone getting "clan ER Large lasers" obviously he didn't mean literally
GoatboyBeta wrote: Really looking forward to the Reaver. Thanks to pocket money constraints I never got one the first time around. I may have to overcompensate this time
But as TwilightSparkles said that would add an interesting aspect to the game, obviously as part of advanced rules, and it should beyond being restricted to a single legion
Who wouldn't love to see the face of his/her opponent if when deploying a Reaver titan by drop pod it lands on top of a banner of knights or a smaller titan and flattens them out in the process?
MajorWesJanson wrote: I'd expect warhound at 2 for $75 with probably all 4 weapons for each, and $65 to $75 for the reaver with 3 or 4 arm weapons and apoc carapace mount
I hope I'm not imagining it but does that piece in the bottom left look like the muzzles of a carapace mounted mega bolter?
No, that's the back exhausts of the apoc missile launcher.
MajorWesJanson wrote: I'd expect warhound at 2 for $75 with probably all 4 weapons for each, and $65 to $75 for the reaver with 3 or 4 arm weapons and apoc carapace mount
The reaver sprue is already out there. 2 guns, Gatling Blaster and Laser Blaster. 1 Power Fist with option for close and open palm.
I hope I'm not imagining it but does that piece in the bottom left look like the muzzles of a carapace mounted mega bolter?
No, that's the back exhausts of the apoc missile launcher.
MajorWesJanson wrote: I'd expect warhound at 2 for $75 with probably all 4 weapons for each, and $65 to $75 for the reaver with 3 or 4 arm weapons and apoc carapace mount
The reaver sprue is already out there. 2 guns, Gatling Blaster and Laser Blaster. 1 Power Fist with option for close and open palm.
I hope I'm not imagining it but does that piece in the bottom left look like the muzzles of a carapace mounted mega bolter?
I am afraid that part is only the back of the missile pod.
GoatboyBeta wrote: Really looking forward to the Reaver. Thanks to pocket money constraints I never got one the first time around. I may have to overcompensate this time
... you're buying a titan legion aren't you?
Well there arm weapons don't have magnet holes. So what other choice do I have? Although IIRC there is no minimum or maximum size for what counts as a Legio. So even one god engine is enough if your going for homebrew.
GoatboyBeta wrote: Really looking forward to the Reaver. Thanks to pocket money constraints I never got one the first time around. I may have to overcompensate this time
... you're buying a titan legion aren't you?
Well there arm weapons don't have magnet holes. So what other choice do I have? Although IIRC there is no minimum or maximum size for what counts as a Legio. So even one god engine is enough if your going for homebrew.
well the fluff talks about 200+ sized legions given what they've mentioned about "titan fall" my gut feeling is legions by 40k are proably only liker 20 god machines or so.
I actually did, it is a couple of pages ago (page 96), also the Stratagems and Objectives a little bit later. The additional card pack is Warlord only.
Warlord Arm - Arioch Titan Power Claw
Warlord Arm - Belicosa Volcano Cannon
Warlord Arm - Belicosa Volcano Cannon
Warlord Arm - Belicosa Volcano Cannon
Warlord Arm - Belicosa Volcano Cannon
Warlord Arm - Macro-Gatling Blaster
Warlord Arm - Mori Quake Cannon
Warlord Arm - Sunfury Plasma Annihilator
Reaver Arm - Laser Blaster
Reaver Arm - Gatling Blaster
Reaver Arm - Melta Cannon
Reaver Arm - Reaver Titan Chainfist
Reaver Arm - Reaver Titan Power Fist
Reaver Arm - Volcano Cannon
Warhound Arm - Inferno Gun
Warhound Arm - Plasma Blastgun
Warhound Arm - Turbo Laser Destructor
Warhound Arm - Vulcan Mega-Bolter
Similar exercise for the Stratagems & Objectives Cards, there are 24 of them. Due to light reflection on the cards, I am less confident I got all right, one is quite unreadable. This said, this would compile as follows:
24 Stratagems & Objectives Cards
Mission Objectives
Vital Cargo
Hold The Line
Engage & Destroy
Glory & Honour
Retrieval
Stratagems (aka Tricks & Tactics)
Thermal Mines
Sabotage
Outflank
Voidbreaker Field
Outflank
Noble Sacrifice
Thermal Mines (??? barely readable due to light reflection, not sure at all it is another Thermal Mines)
Ranged Support
Artillery Bombardment
Blind Barrage
Orbital Lance Strike
Battlefield Assets (for which there are models as well in both the GME and Rules Set)
Mendi, thanks for this - I can only hope that they might expand the 28mm options for the Warlord Titan eventually- would love a pair of carapace mounted Gatling Blasters (just for the coolness factor! )
One of the largest Legios during the Heresy was around 176 engines... so 200+ seems a bit much considering the breakup of much of the Imperium's armed forces into smaller units after the Heresy. Not to mention the difficulty in building new Titans. Of course, this doesn't take into account MarySue Cawl who can probably build thousands of Titans in a few days.
GoatboyBeta wrote: Really looking forward to the Reaver. Thanks to pocket money constraints I never got one the first time around. I may have to overcompensate this time
... you're buying a titan legion aren't you?
Well there arm weapons don't have magnet holes. So what other choice do I have? Although IIRC there is no minimum or maximum size for what counts as a Legio. So even one god engine is enough if your going for homebrew.
well the fluff talks about 200+ sized legions given what they've mentioned about "titan fall" my gut feeling is legions by 40k are proably only liker 20 god machines or so.
In Helsreach, Princeps Majoris Zarha Mancion's of Legio Invigilata commanded a third of her legion - 19 Titans including an Imperator.
Kirasu wrote: One of the largest Legios during the Heresy was around 176 engines... so 200+ seems a bit much considering the breakup of much of the Imperium's armed forces into smaller units after the Heresy. Not to mention the difficulty in building new Titans. Of course, this doesn't take into account MarySue Cawl who can probably build thousands of Titans in a few days.
Don’t be silly; he’s just been building them in his spare time for the last 10,000 years. They’re in the garage, under the pile of old Primaris Maturation Pods.
Kirasu wrote: One of the largest Legios during the Heresy was around 176 engines... so 200+ seems a bit much considering the breakup of much of the Imperium's armed forces into smaller units after the Heresy. Not to mention the difficulty in building new Titans. Of course, this doesn't take into account MarySue Cawl who can probably build thousands of Titans in a few days.
Mendi Warrior wrote: Pure speculation: a FW titan drop pod model? One for warhounds, one for reavers? Stretching it, one for knights?
While I haven't seen the rules yet, given what I've read in the BL books, I'd say this is unlikely.
Titans don't just hop out of drop pods, ala Space Marines.
he likely used drop pods to simplify, remember the post we're getting the term drop pods from Also refered to someone getting "clan ER Large lasers" obviously he didn't mean literally
While the rule does mention a notional dropship, it doesn’t actually require such a model to exist; you just place the Titan and scatter it.
Kirasu wrote: One of the largest Legios during the Heresy was around 176 engines... so 200+ seems a bit much considering the breakup of much of the Imperium's armed forces into smaller units after the Heresy. Not to mention the difficulty in building new Titans. Of course, this doesn't take into account MarySue Cawl who can probably build thousands of Titans in a few days.
Kirasu wrote: One of the largest Legios during the Heresy was around 176 engines... so 200+ seems a bit much considering the breakup of much of the Imperium's armed forces into smaller units after the Heresy. Not to mention the difficulty in building new Titans. Of course, this doesn't take into account MarySue Cawl who can probably build thousands of Titans in a few days.
give it a rest.
I apologize if proper lore offends you.
Proper lore doesn't offend me, but it sounds like any new lore offends you. take the ranting about Cawl (show us on the doll where he touched you) to an approperate thread. I'm getting tired of hearing of people ranting about it. Mostly people whom haven't read the limited and still developing lore that is out there. Frankly if you're expecting good writing go do yourself a favor and stop playing Warhammer, it's pulp.
GoatboyBeta wrote: Really looking forward to the Reaver. Thanks to pocket money constraints I never got one the first time around. I may have to overcompensate this time
This was always my dream as kid, but I could never afford more than one.
GoatboyBeta wrote: Really looking forward to the Reaver. Thanks to pocket money constraints I never got one the first time around. I may have to overcompensate this time
This was always my dream as kid, but I could never afford more than one.
Guess what happens next month!
You and me both unfortunately I STILL can't afford it!
Kirasu wrote: One of the largest Legios during the Heresy was around 176 engines... so 200+ seems a bit much considering the breakup of much of the Imperium's armed forces into smaller units after the Heresy. Not to mention the difficulty in building new Titans. Of course, this doesn't take into account MarySue Cawl who can probably build thousands of Titans in a few days.
give it a rest.
I apologize if proper lore offends you.
Proper lore doesn't offend me, but it sounds like any new lore offends you. take the ranting about Cawl (show us on the doll where he touched you) to an approperate thread. I'm getting tired of hearing of people ranting about it. Mostly people whom haven't read the limited and still developing lore that is out there. Frankly if you're expecting good writing go do yourself a favor and stop playing Warhammer, it's pulp.
I tend to agree that a good percentage of 40K fluff these days is trash. I still remember reading on a forum somewhere about Necrons teaming up with my beloved Blood Angels (I wasn't even into the hobby at that time but still found it offensive). I won't bore you with my negative opinion on BL, except to say that many of their "Top talent" seem to write about 5 books a year, and it really shows (that it's terrible, and that people will still buy it). To be fair I'm really not in the age demographic for BL "Novels" now, but having said that, a lot of the old (GW) stuff still holds up, and a lot of the new and newish stuff is also fantastic (my favourites being the =][= 54mm rulebook, such a great book overall for fluff and writing, and Liber Chaotica, among others). I hope they put some decent people on AT. I really enjoyed Abnett's take on it (BL book called "Titanicus").
Kirasu wrote: One of the largest Legios during the Heresy was around 176 engines... so 200+ seems a bit much considering the breakup of much of the Imperium's armed forces into smaller units after the Heresy. Not to mention the difficulty in building new Titans. Of course, this doesn't take into account MarySue Cawl who can probably build thousands of Titans in a few days.
give it a rest.
I apologize if proper lore offends you.
Proper lore doesn't offend me, but it sounds like any new lore offends you. take the ranting about Cawl (show us on the doll where he touched you) to an approperate thread. I'm getting tired of hearing of people ranting about it. Mostly people whom haven't read the limited and still developing lore that is out there. Frankly if you're expecting good writing go do yourself a favor and stop playing Warhammer, it's pulp.
I tend to agree that a good percentage of 40K fluff these days is trash. I still remember reading on a forum somewhere about Necrons teaming up with my beloved Blood Angels (I wasn't even into the hobby at that time but still found it offensive). I won't bore you with my negative opinion on BL, except to say that many of their "Top talent" seem to write about 5 books a year, and it really shows (that it's terrible, and that people will still buy it). To be fair I'm really not in the age demographic for BL "Novels" now, but having said that, a lot of the old (GW) stuff still holds up, and a lot of the new and newish stuff is also fantastic (my favourites being the =][= 54mm rulebook, such a great book overall for fluff and writing, and Liber Chaotica, among others). I hope they put some decent people on AT. I really enjoyed Abnett's take on it (BL book called "Titanicus").
Don't mind BD, most folk are capable of grasping that these sorts of remarks are the lore-nerd equivalent of gallows humour and that just because we find a lot of the modern material questionable doesn't mean we literally sit around all day waving our fists at the heavens and cursing the studio writers, and that our dislike of something isn't a personal assault against anyone who does like it or doesn't care.
Of course, I disagree on the above remarks - Cawly Sue wouldn't just bumpull eleventy-bajillion Titans out of his shed, they'd be Primarititans, better than your blase normie Titans in every way and also cooler and betterer and they'd beat up your dad as well
Kirasu wrote: One of the largest Legios during the Heresy was around 176 engines... so 200+ seems a bit much considering the breakup of much of the Imperium's armed forces into smaller units after the Heresy. Not to mention the difficulty in building new Titans. Of course, this doesn't take into account MarySue Cawl who can probably build thousands of Titans in a few days.
give it a rest.
I apologize if proper lore offends you.
Proper lore doesn't offend me, but it sounds like any new lore offends you. take the ranting about Cawl (show us on the doll where he touched you) to an approperate thread. I'm getting tired of hearing of people ranting about it. Mostly people whom haven't read the limited and still developing lore that is out there. Frankly if you're expecting good writing go do yourself a favor and stop playing Warhammer, it's pulp.
I tend to agree that a good percentage of 40K fluff these days is trash. I still remember reading on a forum somewhere about Necrons teaming up with my beloved Blood Angels (I wasn't even into the hobby at that time but still found it offensive). I won't bore you with my negative opinion on BL, except to say that many of their "Top talent" seem to write about 5 books a year, and it really shows (that it's terrible, and that people will still buy it). To be fair I'm really not in the age demographic for BL "Novels" now, but having said that, a lot of the old (GW) stuff still holds up, and a lot of the new and newish stuff is also fantastic (my favourites being the =][= 54mm rulebook, such a great book overall for fluff and writing, and Liber Chaotica, among others). I hope they put some decent people on AT. I really enjoyed Abnett's take on it (BL book called "Titanicus").
Don't mind BD, most folk are capable of grasping that these sorts of remarks are the lore-nerd equivalent of gallows humour and that just because we find a lot of the modern material questionable doesn't mean we literally sit around all day waving our fists at the heavens and cursing the studio writers, and that our dislike of something isn't a personal assault against anyone who does like it or doesn't care.
Of course, I disagree on the above remarks - Cawly Sue wouldn't just bumpull eleventy-bajillion Titans out of his shed, they'd be Primarititans, better than your blase normie Titans in every way and also cooler and betterer and they'd beat up your dad as well
Kirasu wrote: One of the largest Legios during the Heresy was around 176 engines... so 200+ seems a bit much considering the breakup of much of the Imperium's armed forces into smaller units after the Heresy. Not to mention the difficulty in building new Titans. Of course, this doesn't take into account MarySue Cawl who can probably build thousands of Titans in a few days.
give it a rest.
I apologize if proper lore offends you.
Proper lore doesn't offend me, but it sounds like any new lore offends you. take the ranting about Cawl (show us on the doll where he touched you) to an approperate thread. I'm getting tired of hearing of people ranting about it. Mostly people whom haven't read the limited and still developing lore that is out there. Frankly if you're expecting good writing go do yourself a favor and stop playing Warhammer, it's pulp.
I tend to agree that a good percentage of 40K fluff these days is trash. I still remember reading on a forum somewhere about Necrons teaming up with my beloved Blood Angels (I wasn't even into the hobby at that time but still found it offensive). I won't bore you with my negative opinion on BL, except to say that many of their "Top talent" seem to write about 5 books a year, and it really shows (that it's terrible, and that people will still buy it). To be fair I'm really not in the age demographic for BL "Novels" now, but having said that, a lot of the old (GW) stuff still holds up, and a lot of the new and newish stuff is also fantastic (my favourites being the =][= 54mm rulebook, such a great book overall for fluff and writing, and Liber Chaotica, among others). I hope they put some decent people on AT. I really enjoyed Abnett's take on it (BL book called "Titanicus").
Don't mind BD, most folk are capable of grasping that these sorts of remarks are the lore-nerd equivalent of gallows humour and that just because we find a lot of the modern material questionable doesn't mean we literally sit around all day waving our fists at the heavens and cursing the studio writers, and that our dislike of something isn't a personal assault against anyone who does like it or doesn't care.
Of course, I disagree on the above remarks - Cawly Sue wouldn't just bumpull eleventy-bajillion Titans out of his shed, they'd be Primarititans, better than your blase normie Titans in every way and also cooler and betterer and they'd beat up your dad as well
All Cawl's titans can fire their power fists using mega robot punch and their is a Pizza Hut ice cream factory behind the princess throne.
Of course, I disagree on the above remarks - Cawly Sue wouldn't just bumpull eleventy-bajillion Titans out of his shed, they'd be Primarititans, better than your blase normie Titans in every way and also cooler and betterer and they'd beat up your dad as well
Primarititans ??? How crap, do you mean we gonna have to rescale our new shiny warlords to have them really true scale?
Hoping someone with the rules can answer a couple of questions to get us back on topic:
How many other weapon cards are doubled or quadrupled up like the Warlord's default weapons? I'm particularly looking at the Warhound here, as that cards supplied could indicate how many of each weapon come in the kit.
How does building Knight units work? Their command terminal says 120pts + weapons, but it's not clear if that's per Knight or for the starting number of 3. Also there aren't any points listed for the weapons shown.
Can Knights mix and match options (such as all three with battlecannons & chainsword, or even double battlecannons), or are they fixed to what's in the kit?
xttz wrote: Hoping someone with the rules can answer a couple of questions to get us back on topic:
How many other weapon cards are doubled or quadrupled up like the Warlord's default weapons? I'm particularly looking at the Warhound here, as that cards supplied could indicate how many of each weapon come in the kit.
How does building Knight units work? Their command terminal says 120pts + weapons, but it's not clear if that's per Knight or for the starting number of 3. Also there aren't any points listed for the weapons shown.
Can Knights mix and match options (such as all three with battlecannons & chainsword, or even double battlecannons), or are they fixed to what's in the kit?
I thought banner options were all on the reverse of the knights banner card?
For warhounds, the old version of AT also allowed multiple rocket launchers
There are 4 of the Warlord Arm - Belicosa Volcano Cannon cards and 2 of the Warlord Carapace - Apocalypse Missile Launcher cards, which corresponds to the weapons included in the GME box, all the other weapon options are a single card each
No mention in the warlord weapon cards of a chainfist (there was one in the old version of Adeptus Titanicus), nor of an inferno gun for the reaver (again, that was an option in the old version)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
xttz wrote: How many other weapon cards are doubled or quadrupled up like the Warlord's default weapons? I'm particularly looking at the Warhound here, as that cards supplied could indicate how many of each weapon come in the kit.
I think we can expect an additional deck of weapon cards for the Reaver and Warhounds, I would imagine a combined deck @ £7.5 like the one for the Warlord
Alternatively the upgrade sprues will be mixed media, and contain the relevant cards for the included weapons.
Wouldn't normally expect it, but looking at the way it's been presented, where the rules aren't just a book but contain the game aids etc, vs the usual way you buy GW games (either it's all in the starter or you buy the rules and any accessories you want all separately) it might just be possible.
Azreal13 wrote: Alternatively the upgrade sprues will be mixed media, and contain the relevant cards for the included weapons.
Wouldn't normally expect it, but looking at the way it's been presented, where the rules aren't just a book but contain the game aids etc, vs the usual way you buy GW games (either it's all in the starter or you buy the rules and any accessories you want all separately) it might just be possible.
I am thinking this would be the case for the more esoteric weapons produced in resin.
Considering how they've done the rules they might even do a legion upgrade kit - one box with weapon sprue and weapon for reavers, warhounds and warlords all in one. It would be one way to get it sold mainstream and lower the games shelving footprint - even if it might be less than ideal in terms of getting what you want.
Knight weapons points are on the back of their control card.
Are there any restrictions on what you can take? Can you have Knights with double battlecannons or double chainswords?
Edit: I found the answer in a youtube preview.
Each knight is armed with two weapons options from the following list in any combination:
Melee weapon 5pts
Avenger gatling cannon 5pts
Thermal cannon 10pts
Rapid fire battlecannon 10pts
Any knight can also be fitted with either or both of the following:
Stormspear rocket pod 15?pts
Meltagun 15pts
Knight weapons points are on the back of their control card.
Are there any restrictions on what you can take? Can you have Knights with double battlecannons or double chainswords?
Edit: I found the answer in a youtube preview.
Each knight is armed with two weapons options from the following list in any combination:
Melee weapon 5pts
Avenger gatling cannon 5pts
Thermal cannon 10pts
Rapid fire battlecannon 10pts
Any knight can also be fitted with either or both of the following:
Stormspear rocket pod 15?pts
Meltagun 15pts
Also, it’s 35pts each for extra knights, up to +3, but you probably saw that too.
Hey wait a sec - this is all set in the Horus Herasy period right?
You know what this means don't you. Forget Chaos and Imperial titans and forget the advance toward the Xeno titans - this is in the Pre-Tyranid era which can mean only one thing
SQUATS!
Yes we could see the towering Leviathan - the long thundering land train - the massive artillery and ranged battery that is the Cyclops! Maybe even see them get their mighty Hellbore drill (that makes the mole look like a worm). Not forgetting their vast mega cannon artillery too (yes its not just a basilisk it was a titanic bit of artillery)
[i]Each knight is armed with two weapons options from the following list in any combination:
Melee weapon 5pts
Avenger gatling cannon 5pts
Thermal cannon 10pts
Rapid fire battlecannon 10pts
*Looks at Codex IK weapon options*
*Looks again at Titanicus IK weapon options*
Son of a.....
[i]Each knight is armed with two weapons options from the following list in any combination:
Melee weapon 5pts
Avenger gatling cannon 5pts
Thermal cannon 10pts
Rapid fire battlecannon 10pts
*Looks at Codex IK weapon options*
*Looks again at Titanicus IK weapon options*
Son of a.....
Pay no attention to the knight in the bottom right
I hope they release that missile pod. I'd also like those two heads on the bottom right, the very knightly looking ones. Plus since the rules say knight melee weapon, they could easily just release a powerfist/power sword for aesthetic variety.
Thargrim wrote: I hope they release that missile pod. I'd also like those two heads on the bottom right, the very knightly looking ones. Plus since the rules say knight melee weapon, they could easily just release a powerfist/power sword for aesthetic variety.
they've sound they wanna do a upgrade sprue with a thunderfist gauntlet for exactly that reason
zedmeister wrote: [Pay no attention to the knight in the bottom right
Spoiler:
Gah that image has been taunting me ever since the first AT seminars Not only with the double gat in the bottom right, but with the crowned head variant on the left as well. But seeing as the two existing FW heads shown are now OOP I guess its something we will never see
Overread wrote: Hey wait a sec - this is all set in the Horus Herasy period right?
You know what this means don't you. Forget Chaos and Imperial titans and forget the advance toward the Xeno titans - this is in the Pre-Tyranid era which can mean only one thing
SQUATS!
Yes we could see the towering Leviathan - the long thundering land train - the massive artillery and ranged battery that is the Cyclops! Maybe even see them get their mighty Hellbore drill (that makes the mole look like a worm). Not forgetting their vast mega cannon artillery too (yes its not just a basilisk it was a titanic bit of artillery)
ooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhweeeeeee dont even get me riled up. an AT scale land train would be dope.
Lots of people are looking at the Dropzone Commander Ruinscape for terrain as it is good and cheap now. It's not super gothic, but comes with 20 buildings of various sizes.
Ben2 wrote: Lots of people are looking at the Dropzone Commander Ruinscape for terrain as it is good and cheap now. It's not super gothic, but comes with 20 buildings of various sizes.
Land Train, the only studio pic I could find, there are bigger ones painted by hobbyists https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Land_Train (I believe you could make them longer or shorter too?)
Far as I recall never. I think there were some big conversions around that era but nothing official was ever done. It's now one of those bits of lore that has slipped to the side and almost been forgotten - which translates to GW not wanting/having the money to invest in the line. Which makes sense, only old-timers in the hobby know of them and even they need reminding of them now and then so there's no pressure or call for them.
[i]Each knight is armed with two weapons options from the following list in any combination:
Melee weapon 5pts
Avenger gatling cannon 5pts
Thermal cannon 10pts
Rapid fire battlecannon 10pts
*Looks at Codex IK weapon options*
*Looks again at Titanicus IK weapon options*
Son of a.....
Pay no attention to the knight in the bottom right
Spoiler:
Its so annoying you can't take a Warden with twin Gatlings and a Missile Pod.
I hope a Knight weapons sprue will be forthcoming. By my maths a ranged support banner of three Knights with twin rapid-fire battlecannons (possibly padded with some missile pods to be sure) should strip the shields off a Warlord in one volley!
Overread wrote: Hey wait a sec - this is all set in the Horus Herasy period right?
You know what this means don't you. Forget Chaos and Imperial titans and forget the advance toward the Xeno titans - this is in the Pre-Tyranid era which can mean only one thing
SQUATS!
Yes we could see the towering Leviathan - the long thundering land train - the massive artillery and ranged battery that is the Cyclops! Maybe even see them get their mighty Hellbore drill (that makes the mole look like a worm). Not forgetting their vast mega cannon artillery too (yes its not just a basilisk it was a titanic bit of artillery)
Don´t get your hopes up. It is more likely that they quit selling the AT box for a while and then reintroduce it in late 2019 like they have done in the past with Space Hulk & BB. It takes guts to invest in a new game and I don´t see GW doing it. Space Marine/Epic was imo the best game in the 40K setting. You had it all: Titans, infantry, bike, artillery and tank companies. Lots of different templates. LOL, noobs of today would fight with tooth & claw to prevent the reintroduction of said templates. Rules were also very detailed for certain weapon types and not everything was pressed into a boring standard weapon profile like it is now.
And think about the prices when they reintroduce Squats. How much are you willing to pay for a Colossus, Leviathan or Land Train? I shudder at the thought of their potential price range. I have done a lot of demo games in the past for various tabletop games and people tend to only invest in skirmish games with a few models (Freebooter´s Fate, Infinity, etc.). The thought of getting into a new game with astronomical prices like AT would be like a slap in their faces.
Odds of squats coming back is pretty slim. First they would need to fix the issue they had in the first place. No good concept designers felt excited about. Tyranids or not that's not going away easily.
tneva82 wrote: Odds of squats coming back is pretty slim. First they would need to fix the issue they had in the first place. No good concept designers felt excited about. Tyranids or not that's not going away easily.
To be fair the concept designers comment we have is based on going WAY back to when Squats were first dropped from the game. So that's well over a decade ago. Also the skill, sculpting and materials of today are way better than they had in the past. They could very well do Squats again though they might rename them (in fact they did they just never got anywhere with it).
Of all the games AT has the most chance; but yeah on the serious note I'd only expect to see them if AT remains a top seller for GW for long enough for us to band together to create Sisters of Battle levels of interest
The one thing Squats have going for them is that they translate to 'Epic' scale a lot better than some of the current factions. A decent chunk of them lack anything larger than Knight scale units in their existing fluff. A re-imagined Squat list could offer something different from the typical AT units while still being able to go toe-to-toe with Titans.
While I'm not betting on it happening, I do think an 8mm Squat army from the 30k era is a gimmick GW could run with.
I ran a few demo games of the original 1988 game at a show last weekend - at least two of those games came down to a melee of armless titans kicking each other in the shins. I can't quite decide if this is a positive outcome or not, and one the new game should replicate.
I'll be Blu-Taking on the armour panels for a while, until I'm sure which Legio I want to do; My current AT models are painted as Warp Runners and Tiger Eyes; do I want to do that again? Or the classic Fire Wasps vs Death's Heads? Or paint the whole set up as Death's Heads? too many choices! In the meantime, I've pulled out my old Aeronautica Imperialis Thunderbolts out to get back into the habit of painting Epic models.
Are the Titan Legions something that there are specific and limited number (Like Marine Legions) or or they more like Chapters that there are so many that you can easily make your own?
Crimson wrote: Are the Titan Legions something that there are specific and limited number (Like Marine Legions) or or they more like Chapters that there are so many that you can easily make your own?
They are more like chapters in that regard. Hard numbers are never given, although it is said that there are far fewer Titan legions in the 42nd Millennium than there were during the Horus Heresy. There are fifty-odd named loyalist legions and about half that number of traitor legions, according to the Warhammer 40K wiki.
Crimson wrote: Are the Titan Legions something that there are specific and limited number (Like Marine Legions) or or they more like Chapters that there are so many that you can easily make your own?
As a rule of thumb, it seems like GW don't like exhaustively listing all the different groups within a faction - Space Marine Chapters, Adepta Sororitas Militant Orders, Hive Fleets, Eldar Craftworlds, etc, for just this very reason. If in doubt, you can make up your own.
Even the missing two or three Legions were done for that reason, originally; to let you make up your own (although way back when, they were just "First Founding Chapters", and the 1st edition Space Marine game makes mention of the Crimson Fists).
AndrewGPaul wrote: I ran a few demo games of the original 1988 game at a show last weekend - at least two of those games came down to a melee of armless titans kicking each other in the shins. I can't quite decide if this is a positive outcome or not, and one the new game should replicate.
I'll be Blu-Taking on the armour panels for a while, until I'm sure which Legio I want to do; My current AT models are painted as Warp Runners and Tiger Eyes; do I want to do that again? Or the classic Fire Wasps vs Death's Heads? Or paint the whole set up as Death's Heads? too many choices! In the meantime, I've pulled out my old Aeronautica Imperialis Thunderbolts out to get back into the habit of painting Epic models.
Death's Head. Coolest name. Make some that have started to show corruption with warp lashes etc ala
Crimson wrote: Are the Titan Legions something that there are specific and limited number (Like Marine Legions) or or they more like Chapters that there are so many that you can easily make your own?
They are more like chapters in that regard. Hard numbers are never given, although it is said that there are far fewer Titan legions in the 42nd Millennium than there were during the Horus Heresy. There are fifty-odd named loyalist legions and about half that number of traitor legions, according to the Warhammer 40K wiki.
per word of GW, Titan's suffered such heavy losses in the Heresy they never actually recovered from it, not only where some legions destroyed and never reconsisuted, but it sounds like legions where just much smaller as a result too, going from over a hundred titans to maybe two dozen.
beast_gts wrote: People in the UK have started getting emails from indies saying GW can't supply their ordered number of GME boxes :-(
Oh crap. Did you get one? What time did you place the order on Saturday?
I ordered mine from GW (at 09:56) so hopefully I'm OK - but this has been shared on FB:
Element Games: wrote:
Dear Customer,
I'm writing to you in regards to your order with us that contains one or more Adeptus Titanicus: Grand Master Edition.
We have been advised by Games Workshop that due to unprecedented demand for the item, there is a severe worldwide shortage which is affecting all retailers. We are receiving a very small allocation of stock (around 5% of what we would normally order). They also suggested that it is highly unlikely that there will be any more stock of the item in future. As a result of this we will not be able to fulfil this part of your order at this time or in the future.
As an apology, and a gesture of good will we would be happy to offer you or Grand Master Bundle at an increased discount of 30% off (as opposed to the already advertised 20% off). This bundle would therefore be priced at £161 and includes:
1x Adeptus Titanicus: Civitas Imperialis
2x Adeptus Titanicus: Imperial Knights
1x Adeptus Titanicus: Rules Set
2x Adeptus Titanicus: Warlord Battle Titan
We appreciate this is not a perfect solution and as such we are happy to refund you for your order, either as store credit or to your original payment method. Please do let us know which of these three options is most preferable and we can arrange either the £21 payment per copy, or the refund.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Three of four other stores have sent out similar.
Whilst its bad news for those that pre-ordered and a pain for many stores it is GOOD NEWS because it means that despite the high price the game is selling like crazy! A good strong launch means every chance for it lasting well and getting continued support!
Overread wrote: Whilst its bad news for those that pre-ordered and a pain for many stores it is GOOD NEWS because it means that despite the high price the game is selling like crazy! A good strong launch means every chance for it lasting well and getting continued support!
Which in the end is what we all want
But it's also bad news because it seems to contradict the previous information that it wouldn't be a limited release. Oh well, just means I won't be collecting the second Warlord-heavy maniple I would have otherwise when the rumoured reprint came around.
What I find annoying about this kind of thing is how can GW be so incapable of meeting their orders? I'm not even talking about the production side - if supplies were this limited, GW should have been informing third party retailers & distributors of that well in advance and advising them to only take very limited - if any - preorders. A cynical person might think stock that would otherwise have been sent out to fill third party orders has been held back to fulfill GW webstore sales when demand proved so high so they get to keep the whole pie to themselves.
Yodhrin wrote: What I find annoying about this kind of thing is how can GW be so incapable of meeting their orders? I'm not even talking about the production side - if supplies were this limited, GW should have been informing third party retailers & distributors of that well in advance and advising them to only take very limited - if any - preorders. A cynical person might think stock that would otherwise have been sent out to fill third party orders has been held back to fulfill GW webstore sales when demand proved so high so they get to keep the whole pie to themselves.
GW was actually quite upfront about this. They didn't know how well it would sell, so they would produce a limited first run and a second one around Christmas or early 2019 if the first one sold well. My retailer was informed very specifically that he would have no more than 20 copies to sell.
Now, whether GW oversold through its own website and is now filling those orders at the expense of retailers is a different matter. Retailers may also have been the ones overselling here.
But it's also bad news because it seems to contradict the previous information that it wouldn't be a limited release. Oh well, just means I won't be collecting the second Warlord-heavy maniple I would have otherwise when the rumoured reprint came around.
I am also worried reading this. Does anyone have the communication that was sent for the 1st release of Space Hulk? Is the wording similar? Repeat story with a second run later?
Mendi Warrior wrote: I am also worried reading this. Does anyone have the communication that was sent for the 1st release of Space Hulk? Is the wording similar? Repeat story with a second run later?
Mendi Warrior wrote: I am also worried reading this. Does anyone have the communication that was sent for the 1st release of Space Hulk? Is the wording similar? Repeat story with a second run later?
What am I, invisible?
...
That would be really cool actually.
Apologies, I didn't saw your post before hitting submit.
GW was actually quite upfront about this. They didn't know how well it would sell, so they would produce a limited first run and a second one around Christmas or early 2019 if the first one sold well. My retailer was informed very specifically that he would have no more than 20 copies to sell.
Now, whether GW oversold through its own website and is now filling those orders at the expense of retailers is a different matter. Retailers may also have been the ones overselling here.
They indeed have been upfront about not being able to gauge the success before actually launching the game.
I think you are right about some retailers overselling.
Two elements I would be interested in knowing is (1) if those affected are only the ones offering discounts, large ones in some cases, or everyone, and (2) if the wording is the same as for Space Hulk which was sold out in even less time (with the hope that this might indicate a potential second run) (knowing that this would merely be speculation)
GW did inform retailers (at least some of them) last week on the same day as store orders went live,
the facebook model retail I use shared the emails from his rep saying there was a limit of 20 per store with perhaps minor discression
he then spent the rest of the day negotiating with the rep on the phone and finally ended up with 30
I fear element games oversold, perhaps in the hope they'd get more stock, perhaps because they didn't confirm the with their rep fast enough to realise what they were doing
GW have specifically said that the GME box is a core product, and that there will be a reprint of the set in 2019. This just looks very much a case of them wanting to avoid another Dreadfleet debacle.
I'd also be very surprised not to see some kind of discounted maniple box once the other titan variants are out. An Axiom set for example could be a Warlord, Reaver and 2 Warhounds for under £100.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: GW did inform retailers (at least some of them) last week on the same day as store orders went live,
the facebook model retail I use shared the emails from his rep saying there was a limit of 20 per store with perhaps minor discression
he then spent the rest of the day negotiating with the rep on the phone and finally ended up with 30
I fear element games oversold, perhaps in the hope they'd get more stock, perhaps because they didn't confirm the with their rep fast enough to realise what they were doing
See that's what has me doubting the overselling angle - if it was one of the smaller outfits, sure, or one with a shonky reputation when it comes to stock management, OK, but Element? They're a huge outfit(in the pond they swim in), their stock management is typically great, and they've dealt with loads of GW's limited release products in the past - I struggle to accept that they managed to significantly oversell, intentionally or otherwise.
Justyn wrote: I see it still available from any place I have ordered from before.
That doesn't necessarily mean much. Retailers will gladly take your pre-order and then tell you it's on backorder in the hopes that you'll do the lazy thing and simply keep your pre-order with them and wait for resupply rather than cancel your pre-order and take your chances elsewhere.
I ended up pre-ordering through Miniatures Market, but if they tell me i'm on a wait list then i'll simply cancel my pre-order. This was something of a grudging impulse buy for me at any rate.
Kirasu wrote: One of the largest Legios during the Heresy was around 176 engines... so 200+ seems a bit much considering the breakup of much of the Imperium's armed forces into smaller units after the Heresy. Not to mention the difficulty in building new Titans. Of course, this doesn't take into account MarySue Cawl who can probably build thousands of Titans in a few days.
give it a rest.
I apologize if proper lore offends you.
Proper lore doesn't offend me, but it sounds like any new lore offends you. take the ranting about Cawl (show us on the doll where he touched you) to an approperate thread. I'm getting tired of hearing of people ranting about it. Mostly people whom haven't read the limited and still developing lore that is out there. Frankly if you're expecting good writing go do yourself a favor and stop playing Warhammer, it's pulp.
I tend to agree that a good percentage of 40K fluff these days is trash. I still remember reading on a forum somewhere about Necrons teaming up with my beloved Blood Angels (I wasn't even into the hobby at that time but still found it offensive). I won't bore you with my negative opinion on BL, except to say that many of their "Top talent" seem to write about 5 books a year, and it really shows (that it's terrible, and that people will still buy it). To be fair I'm really not in the age demographic for BL "Novels" now, but having said that, a lot of the old (GW) stuff still holds up, and a lot of the new and newish stuff is also fantastic (my favourites being the =][= 54mm rulebook, such a great book overall for fluff and writing, and Liber Chaotica, among others). I hope they put some decent people on AT. I really enjoyed Abnett's take on it (BL book called "Titanicus").
I really do not follow the new lore. I grew up on the original AT and SM1 games, so all I ever needed was in those two rulebooks. I know things need to be revised here and there, and newer fans wont have access to that older material, but I guess I am kind of a snob when it comes to the newer stuff. But I can't blame people for picking up the new material and reading about it. I just think some of the original stuff was priceless, even if they were shooting from the hip back then, and would prefer they don't drift too far away from the originals, that's all.
But yes, Blood Angels teaming up with Necrons seems desperate and ridiculous. How about a small brood of Tyranids and Ultramarines putting aside their problems to take on a massive Ork horde. Why not? I am someone would like it.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Strg Alt wrote: Space Marine/Epic was imo the best game in the 40K setting. You had it all: Titans, infantry, bike, artillery and tank companies. Lots of different templates.
Amen brother. Although the rules were pretty ridiculous for some units, some trimming down and refining could be done. But overall the SM2/TL era was pretty magical. My heart lies in the AT/SM1 era, but as amazing as that system was in grit and detail, it took too long to play. Our typical large games took a few nights to play out, but we loved it. But we also had a basement to play in, where we could leave things be till the next time we met up.
Automatically Appended Next Post: PLEASE: Does anyone who has this set already, namely the city terrain, do they have any of the old SM1/SM2 era infantry on the square bases? And if so, have they placed them on the roofs of the new buildings? It looks like those roofs are laid out in a way that they would fit a square base much like they would have in the old days. Amiright or amiright?
Also lets not forget that GW is still near their production limit in keeping up with the plastics for other ranges; so a limited release of the big boxed set makes full sense.
This was an expensive boxed set to put together and even here on Dakka (where there is a heavier concentration of hobby mad people) there were worries that it just wouldn't sell (esp the big boxed game). GW made a sensible call in limiting that box and not overstocking.
Now it seems that they played it a little too safe, but that is fine. Remember the REST of the AT range is still in general production and will be sold from now on as normal. So you can still get all the bits that come in the box just not with the big box discount (barring a few special deals being offered one time only now by some 3rd party retailers).
For GW this is better than if it had gone the other way and they were left sitting on lots of very high-priced stock that wasn't selling and having to store it. Remembering that unpacking and repacking into smaller boxes would still have cost them.
In the end AT has sold REALLY well and that's great news. It means there's a very good chance of it lasting in the market ; of being good enough to generate further investment and development of the range itself. That means more titans; more knights; more terrain and hopefully advance of the story line for this range from Herasy to 41st!
From what I hear avenger Gatling cannons seem positively useless in the context of the game as it stands. Void shields are immune to them, and even the weakest titans are going to be too tough to do much damage to.
changemod wrote: From what I hear avenger Gatling cannons seem positively useless in the context of the game as it stands. Void shields are immune to them, and even the weakest titans are going to be too tough to do much damage to.
changemod wrote: From what I hear avenger Gatling cannons seem positively useless in the context of the game as it stands. Void shields are immune to them, and even the weakest titans are going to be too tough to do much damage to.
They're likely anti-knight or something
They seem to be anti-infantry, which is neat for future proofing but dubious for now whilst only six arms come in a box of three knights.
changemod wrote: From what I hear avenger Gatling cannons seem positively useless in the context of the game as it stands. Void shields are immune to them, and even the weakest titans are going to be too tough to do much damage to.
They're likely anti-knight or something
Right now they'd struggle against Knights too, needing 6s to "wound" and allowing them their highest shield save. They might be useful in finishing off crippled engines if the Knights can get around their flanks and shoot the weak bits. Nothing amazing though, which is a shame because they look awesome.
changemod wrote: From what I hear avenger Gatling cannons seem positively useless in the context of the game as it stands. Void shields are immune to them, and even the weakest titans are going to be too tough to do much damage to.
They're likely anti-knight or something
Get them within 2" and they ignore voids and are +1 to hit. Get them into the side or rear arc and they become effectively Str4/Str5. Already weakened locations can add a further +1/+2/+3 to the roll.
Yeah, no interest in the game as it is, but people gobbling it up until we get a new Epic with lots of cute lil dudes going pew-pew at each other would be *very* fine with me.
Epic was getting clearanced locally while I got my first GW advertising magazine, so i never got a chance to start it.
Both my GME orders cancelled so will be bypassing this until there is another value box, and two more retailers added to my list. . By all accounts multiple retailers have willfully ignored GW then tried to force them to send more stock. Going to be buying direct from GW soon...
It would be the height of irony if the return of Epic makes 40K less popular than both KillTeam and AT/Epic. In which case, Kirby was right: specialist games do cannibalize core system sales.
For the record, I think between KillTeam, AT/Epic, and Battlefleet Gothic, 40K will be the least popular system of the lot.
Every time someone posts pictures like this, it just makes me want some version of Epic to come back even faster!
I reckon we'll get Epic back. Until then, I'll be playing the hell out of this. I've got at least 4 legions planned with more coming.
Particularly looking forward to Legio Crucius (warmongers - reckon they'll be the plasma masters), Xestobiax (Iron Vigil - reckon the black iron core will feature) and Legio Metallica, the old classic
I think I snoozed and lost ... I thought I read that once the grand master edition sells out, it won't be back until 2019? Says it's out of stock online on GW's site, does that mean it's totally gone for now?
Necros wrote: I think I snoozed and lost ... I thought I read that once the grand master edition sells out, it won't be back until 2019? Says it's out of stock online on GW's site, does that mean it's totally gone for now?
The Outpost just sent out notification that they are now accepting pre-orders for the 2019 print run, first come first served.
It’s a successful launch I’d say. Just need to see if has staying power. And we won’t know that until we’ve got our grubby mitts on it, and start to see expansion of the range.
Necros wrote: I think I snoozed and lost ... I thought I read that once the grand master edition sells out, it won't be back until 2019? Says it's out of stock online on GW's site, does that mean it's totally gone for now?
The Outpost just sent out notification that they are now accepting pre-orders for the 2019 print run, first come first served.
What the heck. Why would it take so long for GW to repackage that set if they have all the parts individually?
I can understand needing a couple of months, but sometime in 2019?? Is it just the GME as we know it, or a revised version of it?
Necros wrote: I think I snoozed and lost ... I thought I read that once the grand master edition sells out, it won't be back until 2019? Says it's out of stock online on GW's site, does that mean it's totally gone for now?
The Outpost just sent out notification that they are now accepting pre-orders for the 2019 print run, first come first served.
What the heck. Why would it take so long for GW to repackage that set if they have all the parts individually?
I can understand needing a couple of months, but sometime in 2019?? Is it just the GME as we know it, or a revised version of it?
The packaging & rulebook almost certainly come from China, meaning a several-week lead time to order more. Plus they may have enough other model production planned in the near future that churning out more batches of warlords & buildings can't happen in the short term.
I read somewhere the planning is scheduled for something like 6 months ahead (not sure about that though but sounds very plausible)
Not holding my breath until then ...
Necros wrote: I think I snoozed and lost ... I thought I read that once the grand master edition sells out, it won't be back until 2019? Says it's out of stock online on GW's site, does that mean it's totally gone for now?
The Outpost just sent out notification that they are now accepting pre-orders for the 2019 print run, first come first served.
What the heck. Why would it take so long for GW to repackage that set if they have all the parts individually?
I can understand needing a couple of months, but sometime in 2019?? Is it just the GME as we know it, or a revised version of it?
The packaging & rulebook almost certainly come from China, meaning a several-week lead time to order more. Plus they may have enough other model production planned in the near future that churning out more batches of warlords & buildings can't happen in the short term.
I just pulled a book at random from a shelf and it said "Printed in EU".
The Outpost just sent out notification that they are now accepting pre-orders for the 2019 print run, first come first served.
Paid upfront?
I believe so, based on the way their email was worded. I don’t know because I already have a preorder with them due to arrive on Saturday so I haven’t tried to place another.
The Outpost just sent out notification that they are now accepting pre-orders for the 2019 print run, first come first served.
Paid upfront?
I believe so, based on the way their email was worded. I don’t know because I already have a preorder with them due to arrive on Saturday so I haven’t tried to place another.
So, giving them a free loan basically, money likely tied for several months and no guarantee to get the reprint …
Spoiler:
Maybe you get your number in the queue (like with my internet provider "you are number 256 in the queue, please hold the line")
xttz wrote: GW have specifically said that the GME box is a core product, and that there will be a reprint of the set in 2019. This just looks very much a case of them wanting to avoid another Dreadfleet debacle.
I'd also be very surprised not to see some kind of discounted maniple box once the other titan variants are out. An Axiom set for example could be a Warlord, Reaver and 2 Warhounds for under £100.
Maniple boxes seem like a smart move. a maniple box and rule book strike me as the way you'd "buy into" AT once the game is mature.
Ben2 wrote: Lots of people are looking at the Dropzone Commander Ruinscape for terrain as it is good and cheap now. It's not super gothic, but comes with 20 buildings of various sizes.
Thanks for this! I immediately found some and ordered it. Paid a little bit more than you did, evidently, but I got a whole darn table full of terrain for the price of one Civitas Imperialis box. I'm contemplating some small binder clips or something to just allow me to flat pack it.
I might have bought the AT terrain, but it looks so different from all the Mechanicus/Imperialis stuff that is put out for 40K scale that it annoyed me. Plus, this is waaaaay cheaper.
Not a fan of card terrain. Still, if you like it and it does the job then go for it. This game is so expensive I can't hate on a person for cutting costs where they can.
I, on the other hand, have a TON of the old plastic ruins from Epic 40k so I'll be seeing if I can use anything there with the new stuff without it looking horrid.
I just pulled a book at random from a shelf and it said "Printed in EU".
They do use EU printers, but the bulk is done in China as it's cheapest. If we're using anecdotal evidence, my 8E rulebook was printed in the UK but my Chapter Approved and all 3 codexes are from China.
Card terrain also has the bonus that many kinds of it can be dismantled and packed fairly flat; good for a terrain heavy game where you might not be able to store terrain on-site and thus have to carry it with you to the game.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: It’s a successful launch I’d say. Just need to see if has staying power. And we won’t know that until we’ve got our grubby mitts on it, and start to see expansion of the range.
Me?
How many GMEs were made? Seems like 1000 from GW online and a few more amongst the bigger stores in the UK.
It may have been a success in terms of 'a sell out' but so many more people wanted it and are now waiting for a year. Will those people still be so interested then? I'd call a success a close to sell out with everyone that wanted one getting one.
#imissedouttoo
It's only until Christmas not a year until a new boxed set is made. Plus the Warlords, Knights, terrain and rules are all being sold in individual boxes so they are most certainly not locked out of the game; just out of the "free warlord" boxed set (and lets face it in a few months time most of those who are big fans might well buy a second kit and put the rules up on ebay because 2 more warhounds and a few knights and terrain will be worth it).
Also there's reavers and warhounds to come this year in their own boxes so there is more than enough to encourage most to keep up.
I figure the number of people who can't get the main box who give up totally or until its out again, is a very small number of people in general. For most I'd wager they'll take up the store offers of higher discount or just buy up the regular items anyway.
The only limited item was the coin, a collectors neat item but not anything need for the game itself.
How many GMEs were made? Seems like 1000 from GW online and a few more amongst the bigger stores in the UK.
It may have been a success in terms of 'a sell out' but so many more people wanted it and are now waiting for a year. Will those people still be so interested then? I'd call a success a close to sell out with everyone that wanted one getting one.
#imissedouttoo
A lot more. 1000 was the number of special coins for the first, the proper number is most likely some tens of thousands. Still relatively conservative, as they didn't want to overstock before gauging out the market, but large enough to avoid another Shadow Wars debacle. And as Andy Hoare said, if it sells like this they'll put a new batch out, most likely for Christmas.
Breotan wrote: Not a fan of card terrain. Still, if you like it and it does the job then go for it. This game is so expensive I can't hate on a person for cutting costs where they can.
I, on the other hand, have a TON of the old plastic ruins from Epic 40k so I'll be seeing if I can use anything there with the new stuff without it looking horrid.
If I had the old Epic terrain, I might not have gotten this at all.
But I do like the fact that it has loads of buildings (20), including some large enough to completely block LOS to a Warlord. Plus, I'd be gaming at a FLGS, so having easily transportable terrain is a huge benefit for me.
It sounds to me like two titans could really struggle to kill each other 1v1, but that things could really change with more numbers involved. At that point you start to be able to focus a titan down faster than it can regenerate.
I think it’s a real shame the warlord comes with such a bad load out. So on top of the megabucks for the box you will have to shell out even more just to have a sensible set of guns. At least the reaver comes with a bunch of options.
Mandragola wrote: It sounds to me like two titans could really struggle to kill each other 1v1, but that things could really change with more numbers involved. At that point you start to be able to focus a titan down faster than it can regenerate.
I think it’s a real shame the warlord comes with such a bad load out. So on top of the megabucks for the box you will have to shell out even more just to have a sensible set of guns. At least the reaver comes with a bunch of options.
I suspect they're expecting most people to just use the cards and not obsess over WYSIWYG. at least initally
Yeah, in the interview they released today the guy said that they included the other weapon cards so people could use them before the upgrade packs are actually released.
Question for the people that ordered the GME from Miniature Market: Did you get put on a waitlist? Im thinking about ordering it there, but if they've got a waitlist too theres no point.
zend wrote: Yeah, in the interview they released today the guy said that they included the other weapon cards so people could use them before the upgrade packs are actually released.
Yeah and I suspect by time the upgrader packs come out the community as a whole will have developed a "just be clear whats on your cards and what goes with what" mentality
ph34r wrote: Well laddos looks like I'm in for a box. Not sure if I should paint them half and half traitor and loyalist or all one big force.
Unless you enjoy idea of buying several separate warlords one big
eh not really, the basic orginization scheme for titans in AT is gonna be the Maniple. and I suspect only one will feature multiple Warlords is the Myrmadon Maniple. which I bet won't be all that common. More common will be the Axiom Maniple, which consists of 1 warlord 2 reivers and 2 warhounds.
The Outpost just sent out notification that they are now accepting pre-orders for the 2019 print run, first come first served.
Paid upfront?
I believe so, based on the way their email was worded. I don’t know because I already have a preorder with them due to arrive on Saturday so I haven’t tried to place another.
So, giving them a free loan basically, money likely tied for several months and no guarantee to get the reprint …
Spoiler:
Maybe you get your number in the queue (like with my internet provider "you are number 256 in the queue, please hold the line")
Yeah let's loan good money to the twits who oversold their clearly limited stock in the first place
EDIT: I've been informed that The Outpost did not oversell, that it will fulfill all its pre-orders and that they are, as a result, not twits. My apologies!
The Outpost just sent out notification that they are now accepting pre-orders for the 2019 print run, first come first served.
Paid upfront?
I believe so, based on the way their email was worded. I don’t know because I already have a preorder with them due to arrive on Saturday so I haven’t tried to place another.
So, giving them a free loan basically, money likely tied for several months and no guarantee to get the reprint …
Spoiler:
Maybe you get your number in the queue (like with my internet provider "you are number 256 in the queue, please hold the line")
Yeah let's loan good money to the twits who oversold their clearly limited stock in the first place
Now, whether GW oversold through its own website and is now filling those orders at the expense of retailers is a different matter.
That is not how retail works. The supplier notifies retailers of a product, the availability of the product, and (if limited) their allocation to buy. Once allocated GW have no more ability to withhold or recall stock from suppliers to sell again than they do to recall and resell it from you. The retailer buys stock within their allocation, it is then theirs to sell to customers. GW Retail is treated as a retailer just like everyone else, it receives an allocation from GW Supply.
My understanding is that Element actually had a larger allocation than GW Retail. Although that information may be wrong. The number I heard was in the thousands of units.
To be asked to believe that Element did not know exactly what they would be getting at least a week beforehand stretches credulity to breaking point. They are one of GW's main partners, there is no way they didn't know their allocation when other, smaller, retailers were warning people of precise allocations on Thursday.
What Element seem to have done is commit a Misrepresentation under the Act of 1967. IE selling goods they did not have and could not supply, now whether this was negligent misrepresentation (they cocked up) or fraudulent misrepresentation (they knew full well they were overselling) we can't prove. However, the content and tone of their email indicates fraudulent motive to me.
They are offering a 'remedy' which psychologically captures customers at a lower but still profitable price band
Their email explicitly blames GW and positions them as doing you a favour because they know people will be predisposed to blame GW. It is also why they say that the Grand Master Edition will not be coming back, despite GW saying on stream, and in the order sheet they sent to retailers, that it will be reprinted in 2019.
They are trying to create the feeling of urgency that if the customer refuses this 'generous' offer they will miss out forever.
By the way, their offer as well as costing you £21 more than their contract with you stated, delivers half the scenery you would get in the GME box.
It's disgusting and dishonest.
Personally I would hold them to the contract they entered into, the goods paid for (or equivalent in individual kits) at the price paid. Especially if they, as they did with me, took money at the moment of sale.
UK law (under which Element operates) requires that if a party sells you something, you get that thing. Not a subsequent request to pay for more and get less.
If what I'm saying is wrong and there is a terrible global shortage of stock, there will be myriad stories flooding in throughout the week as other suppliers are told the bad news.
I do not believe this will happen.
As to why would Element do this, they're so big? There are many possible reasons. Personally I think they figured they could squeeze a few hundred (or thousand) extra sales and get away blame free.
vegeta365 wrote: Has anyone got rough pots costs of the 3 Titan classes?
I believe a warlord with guns is about 500pts but what about reavers and Warhounds?
Thankyou in advance
Warlord with the default load out is 385 + 15 + 55 + 55 = 510. The volcano cannons are the most expensive arm option, so Warlords can be a bit cheaper than this.
Reavers are 250pts basic, weapons are 10-35pts each
Warhounds are 180pts with weapons for 10-30pts each
Warlord with the default load out is 385 + 15 + 55 + 55 = 510. The volcano cannons are the most expensive arm option, so Warlords can be a bit cheaper than this.
Reavers are 250pts basic, weapons are 10-35pts each
Warhounds are 180pts with weapons for 10-30pts each
1,370. So an axiom maniple + knights is about 1500. For bigger, Epic scale games, you're looking at 3,000-4,000 points which, incidentally, were the points sizes for previous Epic games.
Interesting points. A couple of remarks/questions. For clarity they are not an attempt at defending anyone. Much more me trying to understand.
Rod Hull wrote: My understanding is that Element actually had a larger allocation than GW Retail. Although that information may be wrong. The number I heard was in the thousands of units.
The whispered number for GME boxes I read a couple of times was 20,000 for the whole world, to be split between GW Retail and independent retailers.
If Element had allocations in the thousands of units, how is it that at 10:01 UK time the GME already appeared as unavailable? Was it then pre-sold? How is it possible to sell thousands of units in less than a minute without the website crashing (we read about another one where the website crashed at release time)?
I checked their website as they typically offer discounts and that would have been nice to buy the GME with a nice discount.
I got in touch with them a couple of days before the 11th to enquire about AT, pricing and availability in particular, and they were very tight lipped, I got zero information, I was only advised not to wait too long on release day before ordering. My understanding is that they were contractually bound not to say anything before the official release time (which seems logical).
I wonder if the allocations were inversely proportional to the level of discount offered.
Rod Hull wrote: It is also why they say that the Grand Master Edition will not be coming back.
They do not explicitly say it will not be coming back as they use the word "unlikely", which I agree conveys the impression that it would not be coming back.
I think it will be interesting to see if there are some details about AT in the next batch of financial statements but that is another story.
Warlord with the default load out is 385 + 15 + 55 + 55 = 510. The volcano cannons are the most expensive arm option, so Warlords can be a bit cheaper than this.
Reavers are 250pts basic, weapons are 10-35pts each
Warhounds are 180pts with weapons for 10-30pts each
1,370. So an axiom maniple + knights is about 1500. For bigger, Epic scale games, you're looking at 3,000-4,000 points which, incidentally, were the points sizes for previous Epic games.
Warlord with the default load out is 385 + 15 + 55 + 55 = 510. The volcano cannons are the most expensive arm option, so Warlords can be a bit cheaper than this.
Reavers are 250pts basic, weapons are 10-35pts each
Warhounds are 180pts with weapons for 10-30pts each
1,370. So an axiom maniple + knights is about 1500. For bigger, Epic scale games, you're looking at 3,000-4,000 points which, incidentally, were the points sizes for previous Epic games.
I think a 5 vs 5 match will be pretty sizeable TBH. the only other Maniple we've seen is one that consists of 2-3 Walords and 1-2 Revers. which looks like it might come out to about 1500 points. so I suspect GW's planning on games being about 1500 points. Just a hunch
On the Retailer copies front, my FLGS owner shared some stuff with me as originally I was going to purchase the GM set through them. He wasn't allowed to place an actual order for any AT stuff until Monday, despite going up for pre order on Saturday on GW Webstore. He beleives this was the case with all UK suppliers.
On Saturday morning, he received an email from GW to inform him that they had almost sold out of GM edition sets and he would not be able to order any on Monday to sell through his store. That's when he phoned around to everyone who was going to pe-order with him, to tell us if we want it, order it direct.
Overread wrote: We all pretty much know that if if sells well enough we will see Chaos titans appear. Sure they will likely round out the pure Imperial ones first, but Chaos is the most logical natural step forward
What I'll be curious on is if they include Chaos Demons. In the past - at least with Titan Legions - there were Chaos demons on the battlefield at titanic size.
IIRC the Primarchs and GDs were the size of a 28mm marine (which was smaller than today's marine). I can't remember any bigger ones.
Mendi Warrior wrote: how is it that at 10:01 UK time the GME already appeared as unavailable? Was it then pre-sold? How is it possible to sell thousands of units in less than a minute without the website crashing (we read about another one where the website crashed at release time)?
Their site was absolutely still accepting purchases of the GME after 10:01. I have one timestamped minutes after that, and I'm sure they still had it listed as available at at least 10:06. For reference, two friends of mine have 10:01 timestamped sales that were subsequently offered this 'remedy'.
It comes back to the same thing, they were charging credit cards for stock they did not have. It's misrepresentation.
A (UK) FLGS near me said on Facebook that he had to order all his GME copies before Saturday and had to buy based on what cash he had that day. He only managed to get less than 10 copies, but all should be arriving.
I think a 5 vs 5 match will be pretty sizeable TBH. the only other Maniple we've seen is one that consists of 2-3 Walords and 1-2 Revers. which looks like it might come out to about 1500 points. so I suspect GW's planning on games being about 1500 points. Just a hunch
It does look like they've structured it roughly compared to 40k, so that a similar amount of points results in a similar length game. I think we'll see a typical game size gradually increase as more titans come out and people get the hang of the rules, but I'll be surprised if it goes beyond 1500-2000.
It sounds like there might be tiers within the suppliers network whereby some get certain stock before or after others. Also does GW sell to any distribution groups? If so then some retailers might be dealing with a distributor between GW and themselves which might further complicate matters
Mendi Warrior wrote: how is it that at 10:01 UK time the GME already appeared as unavailable? Was it then pre-sold? How is it possible to sell thousands of units in less than a minute without the website crashing (we read about another one where the website crashed at release time)?
Their site was absolutely still accepting purchases of the GME after 10:01. I have one timestamped minutes after that, and I'm sure they still had it listed as available at at least 10:06. For reference, two friends of mine have 10:01 timestamped sales that were subsequently offered this 'remedy'.
It comes back to the same thing, they were charging credit cards for stock they did not have. It's misrepresentation.
It is very possible they oversold. Again not trying to defend anyone but could it be that the allocation was guaranteed up to a certain (low) point, "firm commitment", and above that "best efforts" only. You could structure such things in so many ways. And it will probably be a mix of all those things.
Mendi Warrior wrote: how is it that at 10:01 UK time the GME already appeared as unavailable? Was it then pre-sold? How is it possible to sell thousands of units in less than a minute without the website crashing (we read about another one where the website crashed at release time)?
Their site was absolutely still accepting purchases of the GME after 10:01. I have one timestamped minutes after that, and I'm sure they still had it listed as available at at least 10:06. For reference, two friends of mine have 10:01 timestamped sales that were subsequently offered this 'remedy'.
It comes back to the same thing, they were charging credit cards for stock they did not have. It's misrepresentation.
Oh please. Every retailer in the world charged credit cards for stock that they did not have, as no-one has stock delivered from GW till at least Wednesday. They had an allocation that may or may not have changed, we do not know. They also clearly got a shedload of people hammering their website for a couple of minutes - websites aren't perfect, it may have oversold their allocation briefly. But we're talking minutes tops, perfectly acceptable response times.
P.S. you like citing UK law, you need to read up more on distance selling. For distance selling (anything where the person is not physically present in the shop) a contract of sale is not formed until an item is posted - not at the point of ordering. It's in everyone's T's&C's. It's done this way so that a company is not immediately bankrupted by typo'ing a price for example, forcing them to sell £10,000 products for £1.
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Overread wrote: It sounds like there might be tiers within the suppliers network whereby some get certain stock before or after others. Also does GW sell to any distribution groups? If so then some retailers might be dealing with a distributor between GW and themselves which might further complicate matters
Mendi Warrior wrote: how is it that at 10:01 UK time the GME already appeared as unavailable? Was it then pre-sold? How is it possible to sell thousands of units in less than a minute without the website crashing (we read about another one where the website crashed at release time)?
Their site was absolutely still accepting purchases of the GME after 10:01. I have one timestamped minutes after that, and I'm sure they still had it listed as available at at least 10:06. For reference, two friends of mine have 10:01 timestamped sales that were subsequently offered this 'remedy'.
It comes back to the same thing, they were charging credit cards for stock they did not have. It's misrepresentation.
Oh please. Every retailer in the world charged credit cards for stock that they did not have, as no-one has stock delivered from GW till at least Wednesday. They had an allocation that may or may not have changed, we do not know. They also clearly got a shedload of people hammering their website for a couple of minutes - websites aren't perfect, it may have oversold their allocation briefly. But we're talking minutes tops, perfectly acceptable response times.
There is a distinct and plainly obvious difference between charging in good faith for an item you can supply, and knowingly for one you cannot. Word from other retailers seems consistent that they were warned ahead of time of the supply limitations. As yet there has been no deluge of companies telling customers they won't be getting their copies of the GME, which would happen if this were GW screwing the retailers.
As to their website. If they are so grossly inept as to have a retail system set up where the same individual item of inventory can be simultaneously sold to multiple customers, that is not something anyone should be defending. It's not acceptable, certainly not from a company the size of Element.
I though that there were several stores reporting a shortage of stock
Honestly it sounds like retailers took pre-orders without knowing their full stock inventory that they would get. They knew it would be limited but not what the specific limit was (some appear to know and some don't so it liekly reflects different ordering systems and relationships with the distribution network). I doubt game stores make enough money from 2 or 3 days pre-order on interest (can they even bank or do anything with pre-order payments?) to actually make it worth organising it as a scam. They just put up their pre-orders at the same time GW did and all the other stores did to compete. The shortfall of stock is a pain but its not exactly something we can "blame". There was ALWAYS going to be a finite amount of stock.
Sounds about right, esp considering that things like the discontinued Blood Coven for Daughters of Khaine is still stocking so makes sense that there is clearly stock hanging around in the distribution network outside of GW central.
xttz wrote: A (UK) FLGS near me said on Facebook that he had to order all his GME copies before Saturday and had to buy based on what cash he had that day. He only managed to get less than 10 copies, but all should be arriving.
I think a 5 vs 5 match will be pretty sizeable TBH. the only other Maniple we've seen is one that consists of 2-3 Walords and 1-2 Revers. which looks like it might come out to about 1500 points. so I suspect GW's planning on games being about 1500 points. Just a hunch
It does look like they've structured it roughly compared to 40k, so that a similar amount of points results in a similar length game. I think we'll see a typical game size gradually increase as more titans come out and people get the hang of the rules, but I'll be surprised if it goes beyond 1500-2000.
yeah, that said, in my experiance with Battletech this kind of game gets unweildy once you move past a Dozen units perside, between that and the price of titans, I think very view games will go above 5 or so per side (not counting knights) that said I look forward to the inevitable pictures of a Legion vs legion AT game with 30 odd titans per side. that I know someone'll be crazy eneugh to do
I disagree, I think you can absolutely blame a shop that oversells stock and then, instead of honouring the sale, which Element could do with individual kits, blames the wholesaler and offers customers less for more money.
There have been mentions of other retailers similarly impacted, with one named (Mighty Ape in NZ not to name it). I don't know the full extent of this. I haven't seen more, I read a couple posted messages on their FB pages, I don't have FB.
Overselling is not unheard of (think airlines for instance). It doesn't make it legit per se.
Websites and IT systems can cope with a certain volume and will show stresses in peak situations, sometimes even completely crash. I won't blame an online retailer for not having a hedge fund type high frequency trading system allowing for orders to be processed at a level of milliseconds.
As to the bundle they offer, with extra discount, you are free to accept it (it is the "next best thing") or to walk away from it. It could indeed be a marketing tactic and allow them to squeeze a couple hundreds or thousands of pounds and probably alienate some of their clients in the process.
Timestamps between different computers are not in perfect sync. There is a post on Saturday 10:05 here indicating Element is sold out. The only certainty we have is that all happened in a matter of minutes.
We simply don't know what exactly happened and we'll never know for sure.
I would like to understand, for two reasons: to be better prepared next time, and because my mind likes puzzles.
Rod Hull wrote: I disagree, I think you can absolutely blame a shop that oversells stock and then, instead of honouring the sale, which Element could do with individual kits, blames the wholesaler and offers customers less for more money.
Well we’ll never get to the bottom of this one. And I say hats off to Element for offering a compromise.
After all, we know that GW Direct sell to FGLS at around 60% of retail. To replicate the contents of the GME, that’s £230 retail. Wholesale? £138. To offer individual components at the GME cost, less the 20% discount? £140.
Just not practical nor sustainable, and you’d spend that £2 on someone processing the order alone, ultimately leading to a loss.
Edit. My pricing was off, as looks like two sets of the Civitas terrain, bringing the individual component price to £255, meaning to replicate the big box is a loss for Element from the get go.
Rod Hull wrote: I disagree, I think you can absolutely blame a shop that oversells stock and then, instead of honouring the sale, which Element could do with individual kits, blames the wholesaler and offers customers less for more money.
Agreed. as a point of comparison, for christmas my sister and brother-in-law bought me the talons of the emperor set. it turns out that they had sold out at GW after my sister and brother in law had ordered it. My local manager outright just gave them a Land Raider rhino, custodes guard and sisters of silence box. and when I casually mentioned in mid January that he'd missed the contemptor dreadnought he promptly took one off the shelf and handed it to me. AND THAT is how GW does things.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Well we’ll never get to the bottom of this one. And I say hats off to Element for offering a compromise.
After all, we know that GW Direct sell to FGLS at around 60% of retail. To replicate the contents of the GME, that’s £230 retail. Wholesale? £138. To offer individual components at the GME cost, less the 20% discount? £140.
Just not practical nor sustainable, and you’d spend that £2 on someone processing the order alone, ultimately leading to a loss.
Edit. My pricing was off, as looks like two sets of the Civitas terrain, bringing the individual component price to £255, meaning to replicate the big box is a loss for Element from the get go.
I've dealt with Element Games before, when they listed Star Wars Imperial Assault Wave 1 packs as available from 6th of December. After purchase, this was moved to 11th. Then 20th. When I emailed, they said March next year. Looks like they're making a habit of selling hot air, so sod them.
Rod Hull wrote: I disagree, I think you can absolutely blame a shop that oversells stock and then, instead of honouring the sale, which Element could do with individual kits, blames the wholesaler and offers customers less for more money.
Agreed. as a point of comparison, for christmas my sister and brother-in-law bought me the talons of the emperor set. it turns out that they had sold out at GW after my sister and brother in law had ordered it. My local manager outright just gave them a Land Raider rhino, custodes guard and sisters of silence box. and when I casually mentioned in mid January that he'd missed the contemptor dreadnought he promptly took one off the shelf and handed it to me. AND THAT is how GW does things.
To be fair GW stores get stock at different values and rates to the independent stores. Plus a GW store might be more secure because if it has a bad few months of sales it has at least got a big company behind it; independent stores don't and for many of them Warhammer is not their most profitable item and that's after the fact many sell at less than retail price to help encourage sales to them instead of to GW direct.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Well we’ll never get to the bottom of this one. And I say hats off to Element for offering a compromise.
After all, we know that GW Direct sell to FGLS at around 60% of retail. To replicate the contents of the GME, that’s £230 retail. Wholesale? £138. To offer individual components at the GME cost, less the 20% discount? £140.
Just not practical nor sustainable, and you’d spend that £2 on someone processing the order alone, ultimately leading to a loss.
Edit. My pricing was off, as looks like two sets of the Civitas terrain, bringing the individual component price to £255, meaning to replicate the big box is a loss for Element from the get go.
I've dealt with Element Games before, when they listed Star Wars Imperial Assault Wave 1 packs as available from 6th of December. After purchase, this was moved to 11th. Then 20th. When I emailed, they said March next year. Looks like they're making a habit of selling hot air, so sod them.
That’s more likely FFG’s problem than Elements. FFG weren’t (possibly still aren’t) known for timeliness of release.
MaxT wrote: Every retailer in the world charged credit cards for stock that they did not have, as no-one has stock delivered from GW till at least Wednesday. .
Our stock of Titanicus arrived about 20 minutes ago
The plot thickens, my local GW who said they were getting no GM sets and we should order elsewhere has now stated they will be stocking it. Hmmmm I wonder where they came from
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Well we’ll never get to the bottom of this one. And I say hats off to Element for offering a compromise.
After all, we know that GW Direct sell to FGLS at around 60% of retail. To replicate the contents of the GME, that’s £230 retail. Wholesale? £138. To offer individual components at the GME cost, less the 20% discount? £140.
Just not practical nor sustainable, and you’d spend that £2 on someone processing the order alone, ultimately leading to a loss.
Edit. My pricing was off, as looks like two sets of the Civitas terrain, bringing the individual component price to £255, meaning to replicate the big box is a loss for Element from the get go.
I've dealt with Element Games before, when they listed Star Wars Imperial Assault Wave 1 packs as available from 6th of December. After purchase, this was moved to 11th. Then 20th. When I emailed, they said March next year. Looks like they're making a habit of selling hot air, so sod them.
This happened a lot with me for WM/H and Malifaux. Contacted the shop to confirm it was in stock, then ordered then didn't get my products until AGES afterwards. Switched my custom to other people after it happened a few times.
SeanDrake wrote: The plot thickens, my local GW who said they were getting no GM sets and we should order elsewhere has now stated they will be stocking it. Hmmmm I wonder where they came from
he was proably just misinformed. given that when you reported it everyone else said their stores where stocking it.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Well we’ll never get to the bottom of this one. And I say hats off to Element for offering a compromise.
After all, we know that GW Direct sell to FGLS at around 60% of retail. To replicate the contents of the GME, that’s £230 retail. Wholesale? £138. To offer individual components at the GME cost, less the 20% discount? £140.
Just not practical nor sustainable, and you’d spend that £2 on someone processing the order alone, ultimately leading to a loss.
Edit. My pricing was off, as looks like two sets of the Civitas terrain, bringing the individual component price to £255, meaning to replicate the big box is a loss for Element from the get go.
I've dealt with Element Games before, when they listed Star Wars Imperial Assault Wave 1 packs as available from 6th of December. After purchase, this was moved to 11th. Then 20th. When I emailed, they said March next year. Looks like they're making a habit of selling hot air, so sod them.
This happened a lot with me for WM/H and Malifaux. Contacted the shop to confirm it was in stock, then ordered then didn't get my products until AGES afterwards. Switched my custom to other people after it happened a few times.
Happened to me just recently as well. Dispatch date kept getting moved forward a few weeks at a time until I finally e-mailed them and they confessed they wouldn't get the items. I cancelled my order and will probably move to Firestorm and others in the future (well, until Brexit).
Mandragola wrote: It sounds to me like two titans could really struggle to kill each other 1v1, but that things could really change with more numbers involved. At that point you start to be able to focus a titan down faster than it can regenerate.
I think it’s a real shame the warlord comes with such a bad load out. So on top of the megabucks for the box you will have to shell out even more just to have a sensible set of guns. At least the reaver comes with a bunch of options.
I played demos of the game over the weekend as 1v1 with 2 Warlords and it is a bit of slog as you are completely foregoing all movement (we were also sticking to the very basics of the rules, so no special orders or stratagems) so just standing and shooting and with 4 servitor claves Warlords have a decent chance of regenerating shields and cooling the plasma reactor, though on the other hand the turns are hardly short. The thing is, a quick look at the movement stats of the other units, the rules for line of sight and that models get +1 to wound rolls when in the side arc and +2 when in the rear arc means we could instantly see that even with just a few Knights this game is going to have a lot of tactical depth.
Apocalypse Missile Launchers and two Belicose Volcano Cannons are not a bad loadout for a Warlord, the missiles are good for dropping void shields as they have 10 shots adn the Volcano Cannon autowounds everything (S12 and the highest result needed to wound is 13) but it's got a really good chance of getting critical hits against other Warlords, something that will be very important for taking out Titans in general. That said I can certainly see people wanting to swap one of the Volcano Cannons out for something else, personally I really want to try out the Quake Cannon.
Warlord with the default load out is 385 + 15 + 55 + 55 = 510. The volcano cannons are the most expensive arm option, so Warlords can be a bit cheaper than this.
Reavers are 250pts basic, weapons are 10-35pts each
Warhounds are 180pts with weapons for 10-30pts each
1,370. So an axiom maniple + knights is about 1500. For bigger, Epic scale games, you're looking at 3,000-4,000 points which, incidentally, were the points sizes for previous Epic games.
I think a 5 vs 5 match will be pretty sizeable TBH. the only other Maniple we've seen is one that consists of 2-3 Walords and 1-2 Revers. which looks like it might come out to about 1500 points. so I suspect GW's planning on games being about 1500 points. Just a hunch
I gather it states in the rulebook that the game is designed to be played around 1250 to 1750 points.
The Outpost just sent out notification that they are now accepting pre-orders for the 2019 print run, first come first served.
Paid upfront?
I believe so, based on the way their email was worded. I don’t know because I already have a preorder with them due to arrive on Saturday so I haven’t tried to place another.
So, giving them a free loan basically, money likely tied for several months and no guarantee to get the reprint …
Spoiler:
Maybe you get your number in the queue (like with my internet provider "you are number 256 in the queue, please hold the line")
Yeah let's loan good money to the twits who oversold their clearly limited stock in the first place
As far as I know, the Outpost took no backorders and is fulfilling every order placed on Saturday. I wouldn’t have mentioned them otherwise.
The Outpost just sent out notification that they are now accepting pre-orders for the 2019 print run, first come first served.
Paid upfront?
I believe so, based on the way their email was worded. I don’t know because I already have a preorder with them due to arrive on Saturday so I haven’t tried to place another.
So, giving them a free loan basically, money likely tied for several months and no guarantee to get the reprint …
Spoiler:
Maybe you get your number in the queue (like with my internet provider "you are number 256 in the queue, please hold the line")
Yeah let's loan good money to the twits who oversold their clearly limited stock in the first place
As far as I know, the Outpost took no backorders and is fulfilling every order placed on Saturday. I wouldn’t have mentioned them otherwise.
Oops! Got my businesses mixed up then. My apologies. I've edited my post.
MaxT wrote: Every retailer in the world charged credit cards for stock that they did not have, as no-one has stock delivered from GW till at least Wednesday. .
Our stock of Titanicus arrived about 20 minutes ago
You mean you took pre-orders on Saturday for stock that you didn't have until 20 mins ago??? That's misrepresentation and you'll be hearing from Rod Hull's lawyer
You mean you took pre-orders on Saturday for stock that you didn't have until 20 mins ago??? That's misrepresentation and you'll be hearing from Rod Hull's lawyer
Haven't started taking pre-orders
Though, I have to admit, one copy has 'disappeared' already...
unfortunately I STILL can't afford it! 
Not only with the double gat in the bottom right, but with the crowned head variant on the left as well. But seeing as the two existing 
(and at least one place in Oz: )
