Is Daedalus the gate to the Human Edge?

Its the tohaa gate into human sphere, so that going down likely means either tohaa blew it up and ditched us, or (more likely based on current plot) shasvastii blew it up splitting tohaa between homeworld and those still in the sphere(im guessing the reveal will also be shasvastii influenced the entire uprising arc). If I was to guess spiral company is a sectorial of those inside the sphere that is slightly detached from main tohaa forces.

Thanks.

Interesting as we were expecting the evil tohaa council which name I can't remember well enough to spell. Is this a rename or are we getting 2 Tohaa armies?

 Alpharius wrote:
I guess Acheron got...renamed?



Pre-order from March 11th to April 1st

Jesus feth, this looks *big* and interesting in the bestest way possible.

I would have preferred Acheron's Fall or Daedelus Falls as the title.

That's a very silly complaint, as far as complaints go.

Ramah is confirmed. I am content.

I see the khawarij and the ghulam and Maggie, and the elbow and a piece of something else in the right portion of the illo. What could it be?

Is that a Shasvastii in the foreground on the box illo?

I should add that the book interests me, because Ramah, but that the minis do not, because Tohaa. Teasers, official teasers, start next week.

Ah, yes. Ramah is confirmed. Did I mention that? Because, really, it is the only important thing to take away from this. The ONLY important thing.

This is...good news!

Hatail Spec Ops from the box:

Tohaa = Easy Miss for me.

Which means "Wallet Saved" too, of course.

But I'm sure that the upcoming new book, Ramah Taskforce and PanO Svalarheima stuff will reverse that trend!

 Red Harvest wrote:
That's a very silly complaint, as far as complaints go.

Not all complaints require a public burning of one's collection on YouTube. It was more something I found funny when I saw the names side by side. Not something to weigh on the soul.

True. And no worries, I found it amusing. Hence my comment.

I wonder what the LE mini for the book is. Please not Tohaa.

 Red Harvest wrote:
True. And no worries, I found it amusing. Hence my comment.

I wonder what the LE mini for the book is. Please not Tohaa.

Rumor is its that Saito Togan posted back a page.

Figured the artichoke heads would finally get some more love.

I just want to say that I called RTF being a response force to CA.

 LunarSol wrote:
I would have preferred Acheron's Fall or Daedelus Falls as the title.

I was hoping for “Reichenbach Falls” myself.

So, with Saito being the pre-order bonus, what are the chances he becomes a generic mercenary for all vanilla factions like Miranda Ashcroft/Le Muet/Knauf/Aida Swanson?

The Spiral Corps are CA aligned Tohaa?

The blue coloring of their symbionts means they're navy so it's probably more they're the crew that was responsible for guarding the wormhole and are now stuck here.

CA Tohaa have red Symbionts.

 BrotherGecko wrote:
I just want to say that I called RTF being a response force to CA.

1) We want to believe you.*

2) OK.

Tohaa do often times feel rather bolted on to Infinity.

Kinda like Tau do in 40K.

OK, nothing will ever feel as bolted on as Tau do in 40K...

*We don't believe you.

Wait, are those new Tohaa?

Hmm well I guess all 6 or so Tohaa players will be happy and it will save me some money.

So is this a roundabout way of gak canning the old Tohaa line given that there is no way home for them and producing a sphere aligned Tohaa force?
Or can the gate be rebuilt?
Honestly not sure as never paid much attention to them as a faction as they always felt surplus to requirements.

It's Triumvirate, which was a group that are effectively the Illuminati of the Infinity universe.

Dogmen on Ariadna? Triumvirate did it!
Fishmen on Varuna? ^
Combined Army going after Humanity? Triumvirate did it!

 Kanluwen wrote:
It's Triumvirate, which was a group that are effectively the Illuminati of the Infinity universe.

Dogmen on Ariadna? Triumvirate did it!
Fishmen on Varuna? ^
Combined Army going after Humanity? Triumvirate did it!

Yeah but these "spiral" guys seem different to the 2 known factions in Tohaa maybe there a 3rd faction that was secretly manipulating the 2nd faction to manipulate the 1st faction.

gak Tohaa could be Alpha legion Tau, I can only imagine the damage CB can do with that concept.

SeanDrake wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
It's Triumvirate, which was a group that are effectively the Illuminati of the Infinity universe.

Dogmen on Ariadna? Triumvirate did it!
Fishmen on Varuna? ^
Combined Army going after Humanity? Triumvirate did it!

Yeah but these "spiral" guys seem different to the 2 known factions in Tohaa maybe there a 3rd faction that was secretly manipulating the 2nd faction to manipulate the 1st faction.

gak Tohaa could be Alpha legion Tau, I can only imagine the damage CB can do with that concept.

Implication currently is that Spiral Corps are a NA2 faction rather than Tohaa Sectorial. Would fit for Triumvirate since it would be a deniable group.

 Kanluwen wrote:

SeanDrake wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
It's Triumvirate, which was a group that are effectively the Illuminati of the Infinity universe.

Dogmen on Ariadna? Triumvirate did it!
Fishmen on Varuna? ^
Combined Army going after Humanity? Triumvirate did it!

Yeah but these "spiral" guys seem different to the 2 known factions in Tohaa maybe there a 3rd faction that was secretly manipulating the 2nd faction to manipulate the 1st faction.

gak Tohaa could be Alpha legion Tau, I can only imagine the damage CB can do with that concept.

Implication currently is that Spiral Corps are a NA2 faction rather than Tohaa Sectorial. Would fit for Triumvirate since it would be a deniable group.

I'm looking forward to NA2 becoming all of Infinity.

So... we've got Yu Jing Rebels, stranded Tohaa, totally not Nomads I swear, some renegade Shesvasti, how about Perseus leads some Rogue Myrmadons and.... IDK.... we'll get there.

The problem with Tohaa is they're not a full faction but just an army/sectorial according the CB so they cannot really have sub-armies in the main faction.

Well I for one am looking forward to some new Tohaa models, digging what has been shown so far.

I feel like I need to do a "There's dozens of us! Dozens!" meme

Glad to see the Tohaa getting some love.

Whats with the idea that no one plays Tohaa? The army has always been popular in my meta since it was released. nearly every Infinity players I've met (which is a lot) has played it at one point or another. I know that its popularity has been on the low side for a few years due to lack of models, but the idea that I keep seeing that only a few people play it is ridiculous.

I think it's a meme like pano sucks that Carlos started. I remember being at LVO last year and he was stating that no one would notice there weren't even any Tohaa releases in 2018 as no one plays them even though one of the top 3 at the tournament was playing Tohaa. They have pretty good representation in ITS too.

 Monkeysloth wrote:
I think it's a meme like pano sucks that Carlos started. I remember being at LVO last year and he was stating that no one would notice there weren't even any Tohaa releases in 2018 as no one plays them even though one of the top 3 at the tournament was playing Tohaa. They have pretty good representation in ITS too.

It was around before that.

Not implying that it started last year, just using that as a reference to show that CB themselves make that joke. Should have made that more clear.

Tohaa box is lookin pretty cool to me.

Saito...oh man... I'm betting he gets a general release later with a sword arm...

Any ideas whats in the new book?

 jake wrote:
Whats with the idea that no one plays Tohaa? The army has always been popular in my meta since it was released. nearly every Infinity players I've met (which is a lot) has played it at one point or another. I know that its popularity has been on the low side for a few years due to lack of models, but the idea that I keep seeing that only a few people play it is ridiculous.

Well, as mentioned its somewhat of a joke, but it is somewhat based in reality. Tohaa is one of the least played factions, if you compare them to full factions. If you break down everyone by sectorial the Tohaa are about in the middle.

IIRC, in the global campaigns CB has done the Tohaa have also had the smallest amount of participants as well. But again, its all about how you are comparing stuff. The campaigns have all been by factions. If they were split into sectorials instead the disparity would probably correct itself.

Tohaa generally aren't anyone's first army, but they're very very powerful so they're one of those things whose tournament representation is likely much higher than the percentage of sales.

On a totally separate note, I started up on Raoul last night and went with the Moon Knight color scheme from the Ultimate Spider Man cartoon. He looks much, much better with dark jammie pants.

 LunarSol wrote:
On a totally separate note, I started up on Raoul last night and went with the Moon Knight color scheme from the Ultimate Spider Man cartoon. He looks much, much better with dark jammie pants.

 5deadly wrote:
Tohaa box is lookin pretty cool to me.

Saito...oh man... I'm betting he gets a general release later with a sword arm...

Any ideas whats in the new book?

So far, it looks like Ramah Task Force, the Triumvirate, Dahshat Company (looks like a Haqq/YJ mercenary company) and the Foreign Company (which is Hannibal from Aristeias merc company). Oh, and Shasvastii I think. So that’s probably the 5 sectorials they mentioned (unless the merc ones don’t count, which they didn’t last year).

Spiral Core not Triumvirate. We don't have any info yet if they're one in the same.

 Monkeysloth wrote:
Spiral Core not Triumvirate. We don't have any info yet if they're one in the same.

I believe there was a 4chan leak that got Dahshat Company and Foreign Company correct that said the Spiral Corps are the Triumvirate, but yeah don’t know for sure yet.

I would be said if it was. Triumvirate is supposed to be mostly uplifted stuff and we see none of that.

 Monkeysloth wrote:
I would be said if it was. Triumvirate is supposed to be mostly uplifted stuff and we see none of that.

I think the ‘uplifted sectorial’ was another idea floated around for a Tohaa sectorial. The Triumvirate are like the Tohaa Illuminati. I don’t think they’re the same.

They were sold as the same multiple times by Carlos last year.

 Monkeysloth wrote:
They were sold as the same multiple times by Carlos last year.

Fair enough if so. We’ve barely seen any of the sectorial, though, so it might still be that way. The guy with 2 swords looks like a Chaksa.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 5deadly wrote:
Tohaa box is lookin pretty cool to me.

Saito...oh man... I'm betting he gets a general release later with a sword arm...

Any ideas whats in the new book?

So far, it looks like Ramah Task Force, the Triumvirate, Dahshat Company (looks like a Haqq/YJ mercenary company) and the Foreign Company (which is Hannibal from Aristeias merc company). Oh, and Shasvastii I think. So that’s probably the 5 sectorials they mentioned (unless the merc ones don’t count, which they didn’t last year).

- Ramah Taskforce
- Blue Tohaa
- Mercenary Company #3499
- Mercenary Company #5677

and Shasvastii

Well, in those repetitive videos that CB published for the events they mention FIVE NEW armies during the year.
We are players, we are used to play by the rules and read the text strictly... Shasvastii isn't NEW. Shasvastii is being re-sculpted, re-designed but it ain't new.

So, no... thank you CB, but you have LIED to us!! (I'm joking).

If they keep with their two books a year schedule this one should be at lest 2 short so the end of year book can have some new armies.

 Monkeysloth wrote:
If they keep with their two books a year schedule this one should be at lest 2 short so the end of year book can have some new armies.

This is the last book in the trilogy that is Uprising, Third Offensive and this one, and has been stated to unlock the 5 new sectorials.

 BobbaFett wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 5deadly wrote:
Tohaa box is lookin pretty cool to me.

Saito...oh man... I'm betting he gets a general release later with a sword arm...

Any ideas whats in the new book?

So far, it looks like Ramah Task Force, the Triumvirate, Dahshat Company (looks like a Haqq/YJ mercenary company) and the Foreign Company (which is Hannibal from Aristeias merc company). Oh, and Shasvastii I think. So that’s probably the 5 sectorials they mentioned (unless the merc ones don’t count, which they didn’t last year).

- Ramah Taskforce
- Blue Tohaa
- Mercenary Company #3499
- Mercenary Company #5677

and Shasvastii

Well, in those repetitive videos that CB published for the events they mention FIVE NEW armies during the year.
We are players, we are used to play by the rules and read the text strictly... Shasvastii isn't NEW. Shasvastii is being re-sculpted, re-designed but it ain't new.

So, no... thank you CB, but you have LIED to us!! (I'm joking).

Bostria has said in multiple episodes of those "repetitive" Q&As that there will be 5 sectorials in the new book, some are old, some are new and one would surprise us.

I think the rumored Yu Jing and Haq merc force is the surprising one.

Looks like they're continuing the tradition of every Merc company insisting that THEY are the most morally ambiguous group of hard asses in the game.

They didn't with the Senor Massacre and Hannibal one from yesterday. But ya, there's several that are trying to be that but at the same time I think that would be true in the real world.

Isn't Dahshat associated with the otherwise morally upstanding Kaplans?

Also I can't unsee Dahshat as being a jokingly named self-pronoting "the shat"

 Red_Five wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
On a totally separate note, I started up on Raoul last night and went with the Moon Knight color scheme from the Ultimate Spider Man cartoon. He looks much, much better with dark jammie pants.

Finished him tonight. Pretty happy with it. No more proxy at least!

 Absolutionis wrote:
Isn't Dahshat associated with the otherwise morally upstanding Kaplans?"

According to rumours (and not totally having seen any pdfs) Kaplans are in with Foreign Company with other more reasonable and less ethically icky units.

Shasvastiiiii

I can't seem to find a PanO palbot anywhere willing to pay a good price for one even if it's used with paint on it if anyone wants to sell the Palbot at let me know

 5deadly wrote:
I can't seem to find a PanO palbot anywhere willing to pay a good price for one even if it's used with paint on it if anyone wants to sell the Palbot at let me know

They come in the PanO Support pack. Miniature Market is selling the kit for 23 bucks (7 bucks off retail price).

Imho worst set in the PanO line...
Dr.please don't hit me
and
Mr. Mechanic Hunchback
I'm converting a couple of Bagh Mari I bought a few boxes before they went out.... just need a palbot...
They really need to redo that set
Anyhoooo

I don't mind the engineer. The doctor could easily have a smaller silhouette due to the pose.

Technically she databeams the location for a stretcher, but I think everybody agrees that the strobe-light/ data broadcast device in her glove that she uses to do so (and gives her this pose) is missed to almost everybody.

 Knight wrote:
The doctor could easily have a smaller silhouette due to the pose.

I'd settle for her having a medical degree.

Imagine not having WIP 14 on your medic ~ t.Nomads

 master of ordinance wrote:
Imagine not having WIP 14 on your medic ~ t.Nomads

Or engineer. Spoiled brats.

Trailer




Looks like there are 3 pre-order figs. A brawler if you get the book, a tohaa for the tohaa set and Saito if you order a bundle with both.

Also this has updated Spec-op rules and the Paridiso Campaign in it.

Not usually with Rule Of Cool but OMFG! I never thought I'd say this but...I might pick up Tohaa. looks to me like a soft reset with newish direction on the design.
I'm in. This is pretty cool. Why must they drop Something this cool.. Unless Shasvastii is a total dud and I doubt it will be. I might go broke this year... I gotta finish my PanO force.

This version has more artwork. It looks like they made 3 trailers this time.

Does this book help 'replace' any of the other books in terms of the rules for playing the game, or is it another book we'll need to play the game?

I'm hoping that they eventually re-edit the rules while at the same time reducing unnecessary rules bloat...

 Alpharius wrote:
Does this book help 'replace' any of the other books in terms of the rules for playing the game, or is it another book we'll need to play the game?

I'm hoping that they eventually re-edit the rules while at the same time reducing unnecessary rules bloat...

It has redone Campaign Paradiso and Spec Ops rules, apparently.

Ha, yeah, beyond that though?

Would be nice for them to reduce and remove stuff that is redundant and/or unnecessary - because there's quite a bit of that currently.

Probably not until the next major rules edition though, I'd guess?

 Alpharius wrote:
Ha, yeah, beyond that though?

Would be nice for them to reduce and remove stuff that is redundant and/or unnecessary - because there's quite a bit of that currently.

Probably not until the next major rules edition though, I'd guess?

No, that’s probably an n4 thing.

N4... hopefully they get everything together get rid of a lot of the rules bloat a lot of the embedded rules and get things streamline just a little bit not so much that it ruins the role playing game Skirmish feeling but enough so that it's easily accessible to new players yet still really in-depth that's the dream

 5deadly wrote:
N4... hopefully they get everything together get rid of a lot of the rules float a lot of the embedded rules and get things streamline just a little bit not so much that it ruins the role playing game Skirmish feeling but enough so that it's easily accessible to new players yet still really in-depth that's the dream

Definitely achievable, Infinity just needs a serious trim and edit.

While I agree there's a lot of people that disagree that Infinity should be trimmed or even touched at all. Just have to look back in this thread 6 months for such an argument as well as the official forums where people come out in force against it.

Not sure what the real % of people that don't think there should be some streamlining but with 2 books a years adding rules that get's pretty unwieldy pretty fast.

I doubt there will be much rules trimming. CB-eros likes the game as is, and since they already know the rules, they have a difficult time understanding how difficult it may be for someone else to learn the rules or keep up with all of them... the other side of the Dunning-Kruger effect.

New and Improved Paradiso and SpecOps are fine reasons for me to get this book. Plus, Ramah. No other reason needed.
LE Guijia coming, and Victor Messer, in the ITS box:


Another Brawler as the LE for pre-ordering Daedalus Fries actually is more appealing than Saito Togan wouls have been, at least for me. I'm glad he's just the bundle add on.

Did they give any examples of how they'll "improve" them?

 Knight wrote:
Did they give any examples of how they'll "improve" them?

No, but we’ve only had the teaser videos. The proper videos are next week.

I see. If anyone can spend 5 minutes to write a text summary of them, it'd be greatly appreciated from my side.

Interview with Bostria about Daedalus'Fall on 15:00

Spiral Corps is a Merc company that sells themselves as the top private security against CA but in fact are Triumvirate that use the Merc company as a cover for their other work. So that's answered and it does look like they changed what Triumvirate was going to be.

only a few new rules as they're aware the game is rules heavy

They're adding the ability for one tohaa to build 5-man fireteams.

Strato cloud (SP?) drop a template on themselves for a saturation zone.

A few other small devices like the above.

Sounds like Saito is a CB store exclusive but you don't have to buy any of the bundles to get him -- you can buy him separate. It might just be you'll be able to buy him individually from CB direct, I guess we'll have to wait till Monday to see what the other retailers are doing. But CB will have free shipping for the bundles.

They're hoping at Adepicon they can reveal what the new way to play infinity coming out in Nov is and if they meet that then they want to have it playable at Gencon. It's not Infinity but infinity related like Ariestia!.

Saito isn’t exclusive to the CB store, he’ll be available from retailers.

Ya, I'm sure they odd phrasing that Carlos used was just due to being not a native English speaker as I don't believe they've done the exclusive bonus just from them before but I felt like mentioning it just in case.

 Monkeysloth wrote:
Ya, I'm sure they odd phrasing that Carlos used was just due to being not a native English speaker as I don't believe they've done the exclusive bonus just from them before but I felt like mentioning it just in case.

Yeah, he specified on the official forum:

Mmmm... just to be cristal clear about this:
This particular Saito Togan miniature can be purchased separately
If you buy the bundle through the CB online Store you will get it for free.
It's up to other stores and retailers to replicate this bundle offer or to sell their copies separately. Everything is available everywhere.
This particular Saito Togan is a limited edition release. It will never be produced again after April 1st.
Have a nice weekend.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Monkeysloth wrote:
Ya, I'm sure they odd phrasing that Carlos used was just due to being not a native English speaker as I don't believe they've done the exclusive bonus just from them before but I felt like mentioning it just in case.

Yeah, he specified on the official forum:

Mmmm... just to be cristal clear about this:
This particular Saito Togan miniature can be purchased separately
If you buy the bundle through the CB online Store you will get it for free.
It's up to other stores and retailers to replicate this bundle offer or to sell their copies separately. Everything is available everywhere.
This particular Saito Togan is a limited edition release. It will never be produced again after April 1st.
Have a nice weekend.

Is anyone else underwhelmed with this mini? Ninja should not be stomping about with rifle.
Even if the scale is off on the old one, I’ll stick with that for now. Lord knows I don’t need anymore ninja anyway...

Not really. Almost all the Ninja profiles have guns so it's nice to actually have a model to represent that

So let's speculate
I'm guessing this is Shasvastii Seed soldier


But who are these guys??!?!!

Is the Sphinx getting redone, ala the Raicho?

 Alpharius wrote:
Is the Sphinx getting redone, ala the Raicho?

That's what I'm hoping that is... That would be Wonderful!
Seems like Red is the new Shasvastii color... matches the "Seed soldiers" color and look... could it be a new Sphinx?

 Alpharius wrote:
Is the Sphinx getting redone, ala the Raicho?

Seems to be, yes.

That is the new Sphinx. Look at the shoulder icon.

I like the concept. Honestly think the old one still looks pretty good, but I'm thankful for newer and cooler things. So far all the reimaginings of old CA stuff has been amazing imo, so I'm excited.

@Modock +1 Good Eye Bro!!!!
And I am definitely digging the revamp design much more than the old design..
I am really really hoping that the rules overhaul for the faction is solid....

good eye Modock

Is it just me or the losing the armored blade arm design thing on the right arm... I really hope so it never really looked good on the old modelsI didn't like it at all

Huh. New Sphinx looks cool, not that the old one looked bad. I do like the unambiguously techy look of the new Seed Soldier. Brings him more in line with the general EI aesthetics. The original figures were actually pretty techy, too. But for some reason Angel painted them to look organic. Nice to see them actually accentuating those artificial elements of their gear now in the artwork.

 Barzam wrote:
Huh. New Sphinx looks cool, not that the old one looked bad. I do like the unambiguously techy look of the new Seed Soldier. Brings him more in line with the general EI aesthetics. The original figures were actually pretty techy, too. But for some reason Angel painted them to look organic. Nice to see them actually accentuating those artificial elements of their gear now in the artwork.

I agree they did have a Bio-tech look to them that could be misinterpreted. I've seen them in black armor/bone paint scheme a long time ago and thats what brought me around to liking them.
But what sold me on them is using the Sphinx with a 12" move, TO, 2 H.Flamers and Climbing plus and wrapped in a Size 6... its the Guerilla Gorilla and can make contact very quickly I'm more excited now than ever...

I hope I can still bring 4 Cadmus and Sheskin...
Why? Putting them all in one spot and combined order MorphoScan you now have 5 "Sheskin" and it is Ugly
I know it's not a full stat clone but it clones the right stats to make them dangerous... and if you've never seen it you heard it here first

 5deadly wrote:
So let's speculate

I could see this being the new style of Speculo, especially since the ITS pack has a "Speculo" as the winner mini that looks pretty much like an Aleph unit with red glow/uniform instead of purple/white that Aleph normally has.

 Vain wrote:

 5deadly wrote:
So let's speculate

I could see this being the new style of Speculo, especially since the ITS pack has a "Speculo" as the winner mini that looks pretty much like an Aleph unit with red glow/uniform instead of purple/white that Aleph normally has.

Spoiler:

That guy is a Speculo ???

Yes. He was the one that leaked the alive data. There's an article mentioned Tunguska outing him as a speculo from months ago.

He’s a speculo still under impersonation though. I imagine we’ll get a speculo model that’s ‘unmasked’ like the current one.

He is a Speculo, but he is a Speculo agent like Aida, not a Speculo killer, their changes are permanent, from what I recall from 3rd offensive they kill and take over the place of a specific individual.

Yikes. That Speculo is an ugly, ugly miniature. I know taste is subjective, but I can't remember an Infinity model in recent memory I liked less.

Anyway, I hope that Shasvastii stick with their alien look and we don't get a lot of models like this. I love the army, but a big part of that love is because they don't look like generic humans. As a Shasvastii enthusiast the last thing I want is a bunch of Nomad models.

He looks to actually wear Aleph attire in Nomad colours by the looks of it.

Daedalus Fall video

Really glad to see Corregidor's getting redone. I assumed it would be discontinued. Nice upgrades, excited to see. Curious if Wildcats will get anything. Seems like they need to as they're one of the things that stands out from StarCo, which already kind of feels like a redone Corregidor.

They can't really discontinue Corregidor, they've dumped too many CJC items into vanilla products.And it's important to note that they didn't say anything about models just rules.

Unboxing

 Kanluwen wrote:
They can't really discontinue Corregidor, they've dumped too many CJC items into vanilla products.And it's important to note that they didn't say anything about models just rules.

It says with huge letters "Corregidor models will not be discontinued"




Edit somehow it does not allow time stamps you can see it at 7:25

So with Tohaa being the army box with the book's release assuming another vs box at Gencon it's got to be Shasvastii vs something right? Tohaa and CA are the only ones not in a battlepack (as CB's store calls them) or are they done at three for the time being?

Corregidor starter is mostly useless anyways since the Vanilla starter is practically the Corregidor starter, I wish they'd resculpt (or at least re-box) the Wildcats and discontinue it. I don't even own the starter, just picked up a single wildcat off ebay since it was the cheapest 0SWC LT option prior to securiate revamp. Changes look REALLY good, I'm excited for mixed fireteams and Tysyklons counting as Mobile Brigada for fireteams. I can totally see myself using a duo of Duo-ing Tsyklon+Gecko, I already use dual Tsyklons as attack pieces for my Bakunin lists and being able to drag a gecko along with into the midfield might be hella fun for certain missions. Hopefully Geckos will see a small update, fingers crossed, they could just use a little something to bring them up from "OK" to "good", but we'll see. I've always thought that just giving them X-Visors would fix them completely. Too bad they aren't the ones getting "counts-as Brigadas", that would have been AMAZING

Which units do you guys think will be in Dahshat?

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say the next thing corvus is creating is a 15 mm game

I really hope it is... I could just imagine the game design they would have for something like that as well as probably the best 15 mm models on Market...

We'll see how wrong I am in a couple of months

I would like a 15mm Infinity non-skirmish Wargame. Much like Flames of War or something like that. Would give me a good excuse to get some more 15mm terrain.

 Grey Templar wrote:
I would like a 15mm Infinity non-skirmish Wargame. Much like Flames of War or something like that. Would give me a good excuse to get some more 15mm terrain.

Major TAG battles, multiple infantry bases, huge sprawling cities.... all set in the infinity universe. That would be something I could really get into... so far the coolest 15mm models I seen are from White Dragon and I have a feeling the Corvus would do even better... we'd lose some detail but I think it would be okay. I can only hope.

I can only collect one new Army this year and I don't know if it's going to be Tohaa or Shasvastii....
I definitely want to play Campaign Paradiso.
I'd like to completely run through it with my brother using two armies on each side. His JSA and Nomads and My PanO and (Sprial Corps or Shasvastii) switching between forces giving it a 4 faction campaign....

I do like the look of the White Dragon stuff, but the Mechs' feet and legs are just too spindly for the aesthetic they're going for (if you're looking for a hard, military look then a 50+ tonne armoured suit needs some serious ankle reinforcement).
Even the original gundam had that particular nod to realism, with the Zaku and Gundams etc. (and pretty much all of their variants) having bulky lower legs and wide feet.

Vanilla Tohaa are getting discontinued!

What...?!?

Someone needs to help us all out and compile all the Daedalus news into non-video format!!!

 Alpharius wrote:
What...?!?

Someone needs to help us all out and compile all the Daedalus news into non-video format!!!

They're discontinuing a bunch of the vanilla Tohaa stuff because they "only want to have 50 SKUs" or some such nonsense. It's almost all hand sculpt stuff(Tohaa starter, Makauls, Gao-Rael and Gao-Tarsos, Kamael box, Sakiel Spitfire and Ectros HMG) but there's some newer stuff as well(Nikoul, Kosuil, Kotail).

Not at all surprised. They mentioned several times that Spiral represents the loss of access to reinforcements and general contact with the main Tohaa army. Tohaa didn't ever really come with plans to expand, so much like JSA they're being redesigned and rebranded into NA2, where they probably would have initially started had it been a thing at the time.

 LunarSol wrote:
Not at all surprised. They mentioned several times that Spiral represents the loss of access to reinforcements and general contact with the main Tohaa army. Tohaa didn't ever really come with plans to expand, so much like JSA they're being redesigned and rebranded into NA2, where they probably would have initially started had it been a thing at the time.

This isn't true. They had two Sectorials they talked about: "Uplifted"(Chaaksa, Kaauri, etc) and Triumvirate.

They've written the fluff for Daedalus' Fall to justify the business side of things.

 Kanluwen wrote:

They had two Sectorials they talked about: "Uplifted"(Chaaksa, Kaauri, etc) and Triumvirate.

Spiral Corps IS Triumvirate.

They may have once had plans to expand Tohaa in different ways, but obviously abandoned them, either because those designs didn't work out or the line didn't sell well enough to continue or whatever. Regardless of comments about prior possibilities though, its been pretty clear for a while that Tohaa have been in a bit of a design limbo.

 LunarSol wrote:
They may have once had plans to expand Tohaa in different ways, but obviously abandoned them, either because those designs didn't work out or the line didn't sell well enough to continue or whatever. Regardless of comments about prior possibilities though, its been pretty clear for a while that Tohaa have been in a bit of a design limbo.

Yes, and it is certainly more than OK to change plans based on sales!

I guess Tohaa players should be somewhat happy that they got a major fluff explanation for this too?

 BobbaFett wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

They had two Sectorials they talked about: "Uplifted"(Chaaksa, Kaauri, etc) and Triumvirate.

Spiral Corps IS Triumvirate.

Spiral Corps is a mercenary company purchased by the Triumvirate to conceal their operations within the Human Sphere.
Triumvirate was originally to be the 'main' Tohaa faction with its unit selection(Kamael, etc), with a bit more emphasis on stealth units.

LunarSol wrote:They may have once had plans to expand Tohaa in different ways, but obviously abandoned them, either because those designs didn't work out or the line didn't sell well enough to continue or whatever. Regardless of comments about prior possibilities though, its been pretty clear for a while that Tohaa have been in a bit of a design limbo.

Gee, the line that didn't really see any attention for two years had poor sales? What a shock!

And no, what was clear is that CB had no interest in doing things for the Tohaa. Still no Officers(Taequl or something like that?), no Sakiel box(something that was very desired by players), and I'm sure there's more.

Have they release an army list for Spiral Corps? They've discontinued pretty much everything of Tohaa that I already own, and it'd be nice to know what profiles we'll be able to actually use and what are done for. I know they'll still have rules support, but Spiral Corps is clearly the future of the faction.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
What...?!?

Someone needs to help us all out and compile all the Daedalus news into non-video format!!!

They're discontinuing a bunch of the vanilla Tohaa stuff because they "only want to have 50 SKUs" or some such nonsense. It's almost all hand sculpt stuff(Tohaa starter, Makauls, Gao-Rael and Gao-Tarsos, Kamael box, Sakiel Spitfire and Ectros HMG) but there's some newer stuff as well(Nikoul, Kosuil, Kotail).

It really seams like more of a faction reboot as they didn't like something about it, more so then we've seen in the past.

Pretty aggravating as Tohaa is one of the 2 armies I own and I don't really know if I'm going to have to money to pick everything up that's going away. If this is going to keep happening multiple times a year they really need to stop and have a hard look at why they keep getting into this state and actually come up with a solution that's not stop selling 1/3 of a faction.

Do we even know yet how much overlap there will be between reg Tohaa and Spiral Corps? I've got a rather large Tohaa army that I've assembled and primed but never gotten around to painting, wondering if it's worth finishing them or holding off and replacing much of them with newer sculpts

Shasvastii!!!

 Kalamadea wrote:
Do we even know yet how much overlap there will be between reg Tohaa and Spiral Corps? I've got a rather large Tohaa army that I've assembled and primed but never gotten around to painting, wondering if it's worth finishing them or holding off and replacing much of them with newer sculpts

Probably won't know until the 27th when army changes are live but it sounds like whatever isn't in the discontinue list in the video will be usable with Spiral Corps.

 Monkeysloth wrote:

 Kalamadea wrote:
Do we even know yet how much overlap there will be between reg Tohaa and Spiral Corps? I've got a rather large Tohaa army that I've assembled and primed but never gotten around to painting, wondering if it's worth finishing them or holding off and replacing much of them with newer sculpts

Probably won't know until the 27th when army changes are live but it sounds like whatever isn't in the discontinue list in the video will be usable with Spiral Corps.

Whatever isn't in the list likely has a pretty straight proxy akin to the Haramaki > Tanko.

 LunarSol wrote:

 Monkeysloth wrote:

 Kalamadea wrote:
Do we even know yet how much overlap there will be between reg Tohaa and Spiral Corps? I've got a rather large Tohaa army that I've assembled and primed but never gotten around to painting, wondering if it's worth finishing them or holding off and replacing much of them with newer sculpts

Probably won't know until the 27th when army changes are live but it sounds like whatever isn't in the discontinue list in the video will be usable with Spiral Corps.

Whatever isn't in the list likely has a pretty straight proxy akin to the Haramaki > Tanko.

That's actually the one and only thing I'm worried about with this. I originally bought some Haramaki for my JSA because I liked the design so much more than the Tankos, but they were just so tiny that I gave in and just got the actual Tankos. I also built and painted the Yu Jing Celestial Guard SWC box literally the weekend before the new one was announced. It's probably going to be less of an issue with the new Tohaa/Spirals, I think it's only the Gorgos I don't already own that's on the discontinued list, but I can already see a new Clipsos in the starter box that looks rather nice. I don't mind the stuff getting discontinued at all, I just don't want to go through the effort of painting something that gets an awesome new sculpt a couple months later and doing it twice, my hobby queue is WAY too full for repeats

Looks so Awesome... I think Tohaa can wait.



 

 

 

 

Yeah, I really like the new Shasvastii designs. I really can't wait to see the models. I even considered cancelling the Spiral Corps box preorder, but I think Shasvastii models will be a way off (nearer GenCon) so should be able to save a bit of money for them then. I'm really impressed though, can't wait.

Looks to be a few new units there in the list. Nobody I know plays CA, let alone SEF, so I have no idea how this list is.

Shame about the Tohaa.

 Monkeysloth wrote:
Pretty aggravating as Tohaa is one of the 2 armies I own and I don't really know if I'm going to have to money to pick everything up that's going away. If this is going to keep happening multiple times a year they really need to stop and have a hard look at why they keep getting into this state and actually come up with a solution that's not stop selling 1/3 of a faction.

Why is this? Why?

I mean... There is something that I find annoying here. People seem to enjoy some kind of misinformation.

Info is "We are discontinuing these particular SKUS"
An people goes like: -"They totally killed my faction!!"

Questions:

Are the vanilla regular Tohaa faction no longer tournament legal? No, they are not.
Are the Tohaa going to receive new miniatures? Yes, they are.
Are the Tohaa going to be retired from the game? No, they are not.
Are the Tohaa Miniatures going to be impossible to find? Not really.

I keep finding people who confuse Army Upgrade with Discontinuing SKUs with Not Receiving new miniatures with that army being Not tournament legal. Those are four different things and only two are happening here.

 BobbaFett wrote:


Questions:

Are the vanilla regular Tohaa faction no longer tournament legal? No, they are not.

This is written in a super confusing way. Might want to clarify.

 BobbaFett wrote:

 Monkeysloth wrote:
Pretty aggravating as Tohaa is one of the 2 armies I own and I don't really know if I'm going to have to money to pick everything up that's going away. If this is going to keep happening multiple times a year they really need to stop and have a hard look at why they keep getting into this state and actually come up with a solution that's not stop selling 1/3 of a faction.

Why is this? Why?

I mean... There is something that I find annoying here. People seem to enjoy some kind of misinformation.

Info is "We are discontinuing these particular SKUS"
An people goes like: -"They totally killed my faction!!"

Questions:

Are the vanilla regular Tohaa faction no longer tournament legal? No, they are not.
Are the Tohaa going to receive new miniatures? Yes, they are.
Are the Tohaa going to be retired from the game? No, they are not.
Are the Tohaa Miniatures going to be impossible to find? Not really.

I keep finding people who confuse Army Upgrade with Discontinuing SKUs with Not Receiving new miniatures with that army being Not tournament legal. Those are four different things and only two are happening here.

For loads of people knowing your faction of choice is not getting anything new, and even worse the majority of the minis are no longer being supplied by the manufacturer does equal faction killed (even while a closely related faction is still supported)

it's like telling a space wolves player that they're being discontinued (but you can carry on playing them), but it's ok the ultra marines are getting more stuff

 BobbaFett wrote:

 Monkeysloth wrote:
Pretty aggravating as Tohaa is one of the 2 armies I own and I don't really know if I'm going to have to money to pick everything up that's going away. If this is going to keep happening multiple times a year they really need to stop and have a hard look at why they keep getting into this state and actually come up with a solution that's not stop selling 1/3 of a faction.

Why is this? Why?

I mean... There is something that I find annoying here. People seem to enjoy some kind of misinformation.

It's not misinformation. That's what's happening and I'm annoyed as I might not be able to buy the models that are going out of print. Sure they might be around for a while, I don't know when I'll have the money to buy them and I'm annoyed about that. The profiles, are legal but I won't play them without the corresponding figure. And they are stoping selling about 1/3 of the Tohaa so that's not incorrect either.

I don't see why you have to go trying to start a fight over something like this by saying I'm lying. I'm sorry I don't post all my bank account records for you to prove I what I said or a photo showing me being mad.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

 BobbaFett wrote:

 Monkeysloth wrote:
Pretty aggravating as Tohaa is one of the 2 armies I own and I don't really know if I'm going to have to money to pick everything up that's going away. If this is going to keep happening multiple times a year they really need to stop and have a hard look at why they keep getting into this state and actually come up with a solution that's not stop selling 1/3 of a faction.

Why is this? Why?

I mean... There is something that I find annoying here. People seem to enjoy some kind of misinformation.

Info is "We are discontinuing these particular SKUS"
An people goes like: -"They totally killed my faction!!"

Questions:

Are the vanilla regular Tohaa faction no longer tournament legal? No, they are not.
Are the Tohaa going to receive new miniatures? Yes, they are.
Are the Tohaa going to be retired from the game? No, they are not.
Are the Tohaa Miniatures going to be impossible to find? Not really.

I keep finding people who confuse Army Upgrade with Discontinuing SKUs with Not Receiving new miniatures with that army being Not tournament legal. Those are four different things and only two are happening here.

For loads of people knowing your faction of choice is not getting anything new, and even worse the majority of the minis are no longer being supplied by the manufacturer does equal faction killed (even while a closely related faction is still supported)

it's like telling a space wolves player that they're being discontinued (but you can carry on playing them), but it's ok the ultra marines are getting more stuff

Vanilla Tohaa is getting everything Tohaa from Spiral Corps (minus a few load outs specific to SC).

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

For loads of people knowing your faction of choice is not getting anything new, and even worse the majority of the minis are no longer being supplied by the manufacturer does equal faction killed (even while a closely related faction is still supported)

Tohaa not getting anything new? really?
They have just received like 8 new troop profiles. The Spiral Corps Tohaa units can be played in Tohaa, they've just said that in the video.

Aww, but how is he supposed to maintain his knee-jerk misinformed anger when you give him facts and correct information?

Had a chance to watch the videos, they specifically mention that the only Tohaa units getting discontinued models are the ones that won't be available to Spiral Corps, which means that the ones NOT getting discontinued will likely remain in production for quite some time or get phased out by resculpts as normal. I'm digging the fluff of the Spiral Corps after seeing the video, need to decide if i want to paint all my symbionts blue or do them the traditional orange. He also didn't outright state it, but it was REALLY heavily implied that the Spiral Corps will get brawlers, which is cool.

And really, most of those discontinued units are the ones you'd have anyways if you're a serious Tohaa player, it's some of the main profiles

there really is no rage, i'm merely pointing out why some may have a problem just as they did when CB did this last time round

I'm not even saying that its the wrong thing for CB to do as an ever growing SKU pile doesn't really do their retailers any favours

Orlando is probably one of the few that hasn't gotten upset over the discontinuations he's just pointing out a common argument from those that do complain. So you two going after him just show how little you actually pay attention to the conversation and just want to pick fights.

This change with Tohaa is less egregious then the Bugs being squatted, and JSA being ripped out of Yu Jing (it's hard to defend CB against those two actions) as it's clearly a faction reboot, They're keeping the old Tohaa profiles around so this won't be JSA 2.0 -- Nice to see they learned some lesson there.

That being said it really shows poorly on how CB is run as a business to keep having to discontinuing lines because they have too many SKUs. Shock army is one of the big casualties of this that still get people upset as something with models only a few months old got the axe and this is what we tend to discuss here on Dakka is CB needs a better way to get their SKU bloat under control then ignoring it and discontinuing stuff every 4-6 months.

If you already played Tohaa you probably have the Miniatures that are being discontinued anyway and they're not discontinuing the entire Tohaa line either...
Myself I don't like the old Tohaa models and I never got into the range because of that. But I do like the new ones and I'm still thinking about possibly getting a Tohaa Force at some point... but it'll be Special Corps... CB is pretty smart.

Definitely 100% looking forward to the new Shasvastii line the only reason they weren't the first Army I collected when I got into this game was the fact that the models were so very very dated. Now I got no problems I love everything I've seen so far and all they can do is improve the rules for them the Shasvastii rules still in place I'm sure all the changes will be for the better

 Monkeysloth wrote:
Orlando is probably one of the few that hasn't gotten upset over the discontinuations he's just pointing out a common argument from those that do complain. So you two going after him just show how little you actually pay attention to the conversation and just want to pick fights.

This change with Tohaa is less egregious then the Bugs being squatted, and JSA being ripped out of Yu Jing (it's hard to defend CB against those two actions) as it's clearly a faction reboot, They're keeping the old Tohaa profiles around so this won't be JSA 2.0 -- Nice to see they learned some lesson there.

Honestly, the "bugs being squatted" means nothing. It was a few units, not a whole faction. JSA also wasn't as crazy as people make it out to be--it was effectively a separate army to begin with.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Monkeysloth wrote:
Orlando is probably one of the few that hasn't gotten upset over the discontinuations he's just pointing out a common argument from those that do complain. So you two going after him just show how little you actually pay attention to the conversation and just want to pick fights.

This change with Tohaa is less egregious then the Bugs being squatted, and JSA being ripped out of Yu Jing (it's hard to defend CB against those two actions) as it's clearly a faction reboot, They're keeping the old Tohaa profiles around so this won't be JSA 2.0 -- Nice to see they learned some lesson there.

Honestly, the "bugs being squatted" means nothing. It was a few units, not a whole faction. JSA also wasn't as crazy as people make it out to be--it was effectively a separate army to begin with.

The JSA was a big deal due to the number of vanilla YJ players that had units taken away from them CB could have easily done what they did here and leave the original JSA's that were in vanilla as there was no real reason to remove the profiles outside of fluff which easily could have been written to state that some Japanese stayed loyal to the State. I also got into infinity right around the squatting happened and remembered how much drama is caused as they refused to have N3 profiles for them. CB has been learning from these past mistakes as MRRF and Shock army didn't get squatted like CB did earlier and Tohaa got to keep their old faction instead of it going away with the reboot faction so good for them.

 BobbaFett wrote:

 Monkeysloth wrote:
Pretty aggravating as Tohaa is one of the 2 armies I own and I don't really know if I'm going to have to money to pick everything up that's going away. If this is going to keep happening multiple times a year they really need to stop and have a hard look at why they keep getting into this state and actually come up with a solution that's not stop selling 1/3 of a faction.

Why is this? Why?

I mean... There is something that I find annoying here. People seem to enjoy some kind of misinformation.

Info is "We are discontinuing these particular SKUS"
An people goes like: -"They totally killed my faction!!"

Questions:

Are the vanilla regular Tohaa faction no longer tournament legal? No, they are not.
Are the Tohaa going to receive new miniatures? Yes, they are.
Are the Tohaa going to be retired from the game? No, they are not.
Are the Tohaa Miniatures going to be impossible to find? Not really.

I keep finding people who confuse Army Upgrade with Discontinuing SKUs with Not Receiving new miniatures with that army being Not tournament legal. Those are four different things and only two are happening here.

The reason it is a problem is because anybody who might have been considering starting Tohaa, either now or in the future, will likely now decide not to do so. Namely because 1/3 of the models are OOP.

If there isn't anybody new playing a faction then that faction will slowly wither and die off. Especially since there is no guarantee that CB will ever bring these discontinued factions back into production. And no, the company saying that they promise to bring them back at some point in the future is not a guarantee.

Heck, simply not giving a faction new releases is enough to cause it to somewhat die off. Look at the French. No new releases for forever meant the fanbase just dried up into nothing but a small pool of hardcore fans, not exactly the most inviting option for a new player. And then it was made worse by discontinuing the line.

Now this problem wouldn't occur if CB was doing the smart thing. The thing that they really should be doing if they actually genuinely had a SKU problem. Consolidating SKUs into more consumer/producer friendly packaging. IE: Discontinue models/sculpts A, B, and C, and then release a new package which combined those 3 model profiles into a single SKU. Its ok to discontinue a sculpt if you eventually come out with a replacement.

CB needs to have more multi-miniature boxes, preferably ones with interchangable arms and equipment allowing for multiple loadout options on a single miniature. The fact they are seemingly staunchly refusing to do this type of packaging proves that their excuses of SKU bloat are just that, excuses. That or they are grossly incompetent.

The real reason for this is CB refuses to actually grow as a company. They've become victims of their own success, but they really can't afford to stay the way they are. They need to either expand the company or they're going to dry up.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 BobbaFett wrote:

 Monkeysloth wrote:
Pretty aggravating as Tohaa is one of the 2 armies I own and I don't really know if I'm going to have to money to pick everything up that's going away. If this is going to keep happening multiple times a year they really need to stop and have a hard look at why they keep getting into this state and actually come up with a solution that's not stop selling 1/3 of a faction.

Why is this? Why?

I mean... There is something that I find annoying here. People seem to enjoy some kind of misinformation.

Info is "We are discontinuing these particular SKUS"
An people goes like: -"They totally killed my faction!!"

Questions:

Are the vanilla regular Tohaa faction no longer tournament legal? No, they are not.
Are the Tohaa going to receive new miniatures? Yes, they are.
Are the Tohaa going to be retired from the game? No, they are not.
Are the Tohaa Miniatures going to be impossible to find? Not really.

I keep finding people who confuse Army Upgrade with Discontinuing SKUs with Not Receiving new miniatures with that army being Not tournament legal. Those are four different things and only two are happening here.

The reason it is a problem is because anybody who might have been considering starting Tohaa, either now or in the future, will likely now decide not to do so. Namely because 1/3 of the models are OOP.

If there isn't anybody new playing a faction then that faction will slowly wither and die off. Especially since there is no guarantee that CB will ever bring these discontinued factions back into production. And no, the company saying that they promise to bring them back at some point in the future is not a guarantee.

Heck, simply not giving a faction new releases is enough to cause it to somewhat die off. Look at the French. No new releases for forever meant the fanbase just dried up into nothing but a small pool of hardcore fans, not exactly the most inviting option for a new player. And then it was made worse by discontinuing the line.

Now this problem wouldn't occur if CB was doing the smart thing. The thing that they really should be doing if they actually genuinely had a SKU problem. Consolidating SKUs into more consumer/producer friendly packaging. IE: Discontinue models/sculpts A, B, and C, and then release a new package which combined those 3 model profiles into a single SKU. Its ok to discontinue a sculpt if you eventually come out with a replacement.

CB needs to have more multi-miniature boxes, preferably ones with interchangable arms and equipment allowing for multiple loadout options on a single miniature. The fact they are seemingly staunchly refusing to do this type of packaging proves that their excuses of SKU bloat are just that, excuses. That or they are grossly incompetent.

The real reason for this is CB refuses to actually grow as a company. They've become victims of their own success, but they really can't afford to stay the way they are. They need to either expand the company or they're going to dry up.

Sorry but we’re probably going to see more tohaa players this year, not less.
Many of the old tohaa sculpts are not in the current scale of the game anyway.
We’re talking about SKUs that don’t sell, they will be on shelves for a while after being discontinued.
You can still get all the Acontecimento stuff now.

We have this discussion every time new stuff is announced, everyone whines, and then forgets when all the shiny new stuff comes out.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
there really is no rage, i'm merely pointing out why some may have a problem just as they did when CB did this last time round

I'm not even saying that its the wrong thing for CB to do as an ever growing SKU pile doesn't really do their retailers any favours

 Bladerunner2019 wrote:

Sorry but we’re probably going to see more tohaa players this year, not less.
Many of the old tohaa sculpts are not in the current scale of the game anyway.
We’re talking about SKUs that don’t sell, they will be on shelves for a while after being discontinued.
You can still get all the Acontecimento stuff now.

We have this discussion every time new stuff is announced, everyone whines, and then forgets when all the shiny new stuff comes out.

Finally someone who has a solid grasp of what's really going on here...
This isn't a special trick or some kind of cool gimmick this comes down to one simple thing.

And it's been discussed over and over again CB refuses to grow and as a business that is there prerogative.

If CB growing means they have a higher chance of going out of business I want them to stay right where they're at because I'm very content as a consumer...

A lot of the people with the complaints don't even run the factions they're complaining about /have no intention of buying the models that they're complaining about because if they were they would have already done it. It's funny you want CB to grow to suit you. but you haven't bought the Tohaa models that they're discontinuing. Give that some thought..

As an example I knew that I was going to run Shock Army. The moment I found out they are being discontinued I went out and I bought all the models that I was going to need that would no longer be easily accessed.
I have an overabundance of Bagh Mari models I have an extra Rao just so I have his arm bits. 1 I can keep stock and 1 I can chop up.

You're being given a fair warning ahead of time that Tohaa models are going to be discontinued I bet they're going to re-release those models with brand new sculpts not too far in the future because Tohaa is not a huge range and is a Main faction. Unlike PanO which has a huge product line.

Maybe instead of complaining you should take that time go put in a little bit of extra work, save up some money and buy the Tohaa units you desire before they are discontinued.

I'll say this again....
Retailers (online or brick and motar)don't have the same space for Corvus Belli products as they do other companies products. they don't sell the same, it's not the same thing. You're comparing apples to oranges they're not the same...

Does anyone here actually know how CB runs?
That a lot of their employees are friends and family that it's a very small company in Spain that manages to supply the entire world with its products in a stand-alone manner?
Do any of you realize they don't Outsource to China?
They don't have multiple manufacturing plants or bases of operation global?
And they don't want to get themselves in a predicament where their company is folding...
I would rather have Corvus Belli Trucking along at a steady Pace safely where everybody in their company is happy, well fed and making a profit...

I tell you what...when those units are re-released with brand new sculpts you won't be complaining then. Tohaa not going in the garbage can it's just getting a facelift.

I agree that they could do a few new things with box sets and such but at the same time they can only produce so much a month.
Guys reality check there's only X employees, X space and X places to send the product...
Lets we bring this back into reality a little bit...
You armchair businessmen are silly with all your "Vast" knowledge of how business works....

#DaedalusFall it's a very exciting time. I'm really happy with what they're doing right now.
So maybe we (Faceless complainer X)should quit being so negative and spend a little bit of money on Corvus it's the only way they're ever going to grow. Your complaints won't help them grow. Only your financial support will... think about it

 Bladerunner2019 wrote:

You can still get all the Acontecimento stuff now.

Decided to check Miniature Market, the warstore and Gamenerds. Pretty much all the discontinued Tohaa stuff is sold out. So that pretty much leaves Ebay. Yea. Who knows what the prices will be in a few months.

That's why I got mine early... I seen the warning and said...
"Ok thanks for the head up" and spent money that week...
If the discontinued Tohaa stuff is important to get... get it Now

go do overtime (my source of income), mow a yard, beg dad, guilt mom, call grandpa, whatever your income source is and get those models while you can.

Oh wow I just Noticed Aswangs are missing from the Shasvastii force list, I better buy some while I can Oh maybe Use them as my Xenotech

 5deadly wrote:

Does anyone here actually know how CB runs?
That a lot of their employees are friends and family that it's a very small company in Spain that manages to supply the entire world with its products in a stand-alone manner?
Do any of you realize they don't Outsource to China?
They don't have multiple manufacturing plants or bases of operation global?
And they don't want to get themselves in a predicament where their company is folding...
I would rather have Corvus Belli Trucking along at a steady Pace safely where everybody in their company is happy, well fed and making a profit...

I tell you what...when those units are re-released with brand new sculpts you won't be complaining then. Tohaa not going in the garbage can it's just getting a facelift.

I agree that they could do a few new things with box sets and such but at the same time they can only produce so much a month.
Guys reality check there's only X employees, X space and X places to send the product...
Lets we bring this back into reality a little bit...
You armchair businessmen are silly with all your "Vast" knowledge of how business works....

#DaedalusFall it's a very exciting time. I'm really happy with what they're doing right now.
So maybe we (Faceless complainer X)should quit being so negative and spend a little bit of money on Corvus it's the only way they're ever going to grow. Your complaints won't help them grow. Only your financial support will... think about it

Yes. We know that they deliberately keep themselves small and keep it all in house. That is of course their decision, its just a bad one with the way their game keeps growing.

Especially in light of all the vanity projects they keep putting out. Models like HVTs or bootleg Alt sculpts are cool, but they are a waste of resources for a company that is operating like CB. Do we really need 10+ HVT models?

For a company supposedly under a crippling strain of SKU bloat, they sure put out a lot of unnecessary sculpts.

And you know, maybe CB could expand beyond their single little town that they are so nobly providing jobs for. Maybe they could provide jobs to another couple small towns in the area as well? They're going to have to if they keep coming out with new stuff and don't streamline their products with multi-option kits. Otherwise they're going to end up with more of their models being shelved than in production.

And you know, if they keep making their customers angry by shelving sectorials, they could very well destroy their customer base. If a course of action makes a good chunk of your customers angry, even if it is logical from your perspective, then it would be a very good idea to reconsider it.

And don't act like everybody who is trashing on their business model is completely ignorant of the matter. As someone who has an education and a degree in business, they make some truly bizarre choices. This isn't just raging at a screen with no knowledge or context. Its by someone who knows more than the basics of the business world and who has also spent a long time being familiar with the gaming industry as a customer.

CB is in a weird place of stagnation that really isn't sustainable. They need to keep stuff somewhat fresh, but you can't neglect your core products. That does necessitate you grow beyond what they are willing to do. This doesn't bode well for their long term survival.

It never ceases to amaze me the number of people, largely from the US, that complain about how CB (and when looking at other European companies, them too) operates. Call them out for seemingly poor decisions, anti-consumer practices etc. and claim expertise in the world as the basis for their judgement.

Yet people who have any kind of experience, know full well that operating a business in the US is completely different from the rest of the world. The financial, economic and social situation in the EU is worlds apart from that in the US, even if the markets overlap. It's a running theme with US companies that try to enter the UK or Ireland, that they crash and burn as they assume that a common language makes the business environments similar enough that they can port without making any changes to their corporate strategy, culture etc.

CB are still running, Infinity is 14 years old. More than half of all business fold after 5 years, two thirds don't make it to 10. Their decisions to date have kept them running and sufficiently in profit to steadily expand. Despite the naysayers, they're doing more right than wrong.

 Grey Templar wrote:


Yes. We know that they deliberately keep themselves small and keep it all in house. That is of course their decision, its just a bad one with the way their game keeps growing.

Especially in light of all the vanity projects they keep putting out. Models like HVTs or bootleg Alt sculpts are cool, but they are a waste of resources for a company that is operating like CB. Do we really need 10+ HVT models?

For a company supposedly under a crippling strain of SKU bloat, they sure put out a lot of unnecessary sculpts.

And you know, maybe CB could expand beyond their single little town that they are so nobly providing jobs for. Maybe they could provide jobs to another couple small towns in the area as well? They're going to have to if they keep coming out with new stuff and don't streamline their products with multi-option kits. Otherwise they're going to end up with more of their models being shelved than in production.

And you know, if they keep making their customers angry by shelving sectorials, they could very well destroy their customer base. If a course of action makes a good chunk of your customers angry, even if it is logical from your perspective, then it would be a very good idea to reconsider it.

And don't act like everybody who is trashing on their business model is completely ignorant of the matter. As someone who has an education and a degree in business, they make some truly bizarre choices. This isn't just raging at a screen with no knowledge or context. Its by someone who knows more than the basics of the business world and who has also spent a long time being familiar with the gaming industry as a customer.

CB is in a weird place of stagnation that really isn't sustainable. They need to keep stuff somewhat fresh, but you can't neglect your core products. That does necessitate you grow beyond what they are willing to do. This doesn't bode well for their long term survival.

I'm sorry but you sound very silly... I feel like you're not understanding whats really happening and thats ok.. I think the ENTIRE point was missed by you.

 The Infinite wrote:
It never ceases to amaze me the number of people, largely from the US, that complain about how CB (and when looking at other European companies, them too) operates. Call them out for seemingly poor decisions, anti-consumer practices etc. and claim expertise in the world as the basis for their judgement.

Yet people who have any kind of experience, know full well that operating a business in the US is completely different from the rest of the world. The financial, economic and social situation in the EU is worlds apart from that in the US, even if the markets overlap. It's a running theme with US companies that try to enter the UK or Ireland, that they crash and burn as they assume that a common language makes the business environments similar enough that they can port without making any changes to their corporate strategy, culture etc.

CB are still running, Infinity is 14 years old. More than half of all business fold after 5 years, two thirds don't make it to 10. Their decisions to date have kept them running and sufficiently in profit to steadily expand. Despite the naysayers, they're doing more right than wrong.

The Infinite +1 My Man and friended

Most Important part of your post: "CB are still running, Infinity is 14 years old. More than half of all business fold after 5 years"
The Infinite actually gets it... OMFG He totally gets it... they are steady. They continue to survive in an competitive international market and we get great products Year after year. Products that are improving constantly as well Big Hat tip to you my friend. and thank you for your post. it was short and sweet and concise unlike my long winded rants. I'd rather have them take thing on and off the shelves in constant rotation than Ever go out of business trying to KEEP UP WITH BIGGER COMPANIES. Regardless of what some may think they are smart with how they run things. I think thats enough out of me on this topic...if you don't understand WHY by now sorry but you never will... Fin

On the Topic of Rumor and speculation Taigha Creatures AVA 8. WTF is that? is it like a Preta? This looks good to boost numbers at 8 i'm guessing they are cheap and die fast on par with Kuang Shi very exciting.
Jayth Cutthroats can Haris I wonder what they do?

Tensho Experts, Nox Troops, Gwailos, Sheskin, Hasht, Messer, M&T drones are special...I have a feeling you'l be able to make some really mixed fire teams with this force. I hoping for a few Wildcard entries. I'm sure some will have May Join Nox/May Join Gwailos akin to Bagh Mari and Orcs being able to join Regulars. this force can't come fast enough for me.

Haqqislam Vid is up Woot woot!

 Grey Templar wrote:

 BobbaFett wrote:

 Monkeysloth wrote:
Pretty aggravating as Tohaa is one of the 2 armies I own and I don't really know if I'm going to have to money to pick everything up that's going away. If this is going to keep happening multiple times a year they really need to stop and have a hard look at why they keep getting into this state and actually come up with a solution that's not stop selling 1/3 of a faction.

Why is this? Why?

I mean... There is something that I find annoying here. People seem to enjoy some kind of misinformation.

Info is "We are discontinuing these particular SKUS"
An people goes like: -"They totally killed my faction!!"

Questions:

Are the vanilla regular Tohaa faction no longer tournament legal? No, they are not.
Are the Tohaa going to receive new miniatures? Yes, they are.
Are the Tohaa going to be retired from the game? No, they are not.
Are the Tohaa Miniatures going to be impossible to find? Not really.

I keep finding people who confuse Army Upgrade with Discontinuing SKUs with Not Receiving new miniatures with that army being Not tournament legal. Those are four different things and only two are happening here.

The reason it is a problem is because anybody who might have been considering starting Tohaa, either now or in the future, will likely now decide not to do so. Namely because 1/3 of the models are OOP.

If there isn't anybody new playing a faction then that faction will slowly wither and die off. Especially since there is no guarantee that CB will ever bring these discontinued factions back into production. And no, the company saying that they promise to bring them back at some point in the future is not a guarantee.

Heck, simply not giving a faction new releases is enough to cause it to somewhat die off. Look at the French. No new releases for forever meant the fanbase just dried up into nothing but a small pool of hardcore fans, not exactly the most inviting option for a new player. And then it was made worse by discontinuing the line.

Now this problem wouldn't occur if CB was doing the smart thing. The thing that they really should be doing if they actually genuinely had a SKU problem. Consolidating SKUs into more consumer/producer friendly packaging. IE: Discontinue models/sculpts A, B, and C, and then release a new package which combined those 3 model profiles into a single SKU. Its ok to discontinue a sculpt if you eventually come out with a replacement.

CB needs to have more multi-miniature boxes, preferably ones with interchangable arms and equipment allowing for multiple loadout options on a single miniature. The fact they are seemingly staunchly refusing to do this type of packaging proves that their excuses of SKU bloat are just that, excuses. That or they are grossly incompetent.

The real reason for this is CB refuses to actually grow as a company. They've become victims of their own success, but they really can't afford to stay the way they are. They need to either expand the company or they're going to dry up.

Interesting analysis and my opinion exactly. CB are stagnating now and are looking for additional sources of revenue / trying to stir the fanbase (Aristeia, moving to the book a-quarter system, spamming us with "new" sectorials) but in the end they're simply hoping for another "golden shot" like back when they hit it off with Icestorm.

The problem is, back then the market was way smaller and GW was on the deathbed. Now, GW is back in force and all small companies, of which there seems to be more now than at anytme in recent past, are fighting for an ever-shrinking market.

Ramah task force looking very cool...
I already have a pretty big Hassassin force... but I could totally see myself picking up these guys... and using them to replace the Druze models I don't like...
Spoiler alert more SKU are discontinued... so find list and get them while they're hot
Pro tip: ignore the GW reps and Anti-Corvus camp we should have a pretty good week with #DaedalusFall
I for one am going to buy the book, Shasvastii when it comes out, a couple of Ramah models... holding off on Tohaa cause my plate is going to be full this year. I'm beginning to wonder if some of these discontinued models aren't part of a bigger plan to overhaul the look and Design of older models that are dated

Corvus fans let your money speak for you and support the company. Games Workshop and for that matter it's very vocal fanbase would like nothing more than to see Corvus Belli fail .



 

 

 

CB has made a conscious decision not to grow beyond (x), and while yes, that is their decision to make, it will occasionally also lead to what appear to be...arbitrary and/or baffling 'business decisions'.

So yes, of course they can do what they want, but they'll also occasionally alienate members of their own base, and then - shockingly enough - they won't grow as much.

So, mission...accomplished, I guess?

Anyway, huzzah for Ramah Taskforce AND for finally getting to see exactly what is in it!

 

Boo for Azra'ils getting discontinued.

 Alkasyn wrote:


Interesting analysis and my opinion exactly. CB are stagnating now and are looking for additional sources of revenue / trying to stir the fanbase (Aristeia, moving to the book a-quarter system, spamming us with "new" sectorials) but in the end they're simply hoping for another "golden shot" like back when they hit it off with Icestorm.

The problem is, back then the market was way smaller and GW was on the deathbed. Now, GW is back in force and all small companies, of which there seems to be more now than at anytme in recent past, are fighting for an ever-shrinking market.

Do not be silly. The market is not shrinking, it is only getting bigger. There are more people and more money in this market now than there has been in a decade.

That's a really nice colour scheme. Always felt yellow-orange works better than green.

Ramah are looking awesome. There's more new stuff than I was expecting.

Monstruckers?

 Barzam wrote:
Monstruckers?

New Mercenary unit. They're also in Spiral Corps. Don't know anything else yet.

I really dig the concept art here. Very cool looking. They are a little busy but not too busy. Perfect.

 Alkasyn wrote:


Interesting analysis and my opinion exactly. CB are stagnating now and are looking for additional sources of revenue / trying to stir the fanbase (Aristeia, moving to the book a-quarter system, spamming us with "new" sectorials) but in the end they're simply hoping for another "golden shot" like back when they hit it off with Icestorm.

The problem is, back then the market was way smaller and GW was on the deathbed. Now, GW is back in force and all small companies, of which there seems to be more now than at anytme in recent past, are fighting for an ever-shrinking market.

Do we know that? I can't remember if Carlos shared growth numbers last gencon like he has the previous few. If he did then clearly it wouldn't be the case (as they're no way they'd share negative numbers) but I do think the 2017 gencon's report showed things starting to level out and Carlos saying this was expected tail of the N3 growth train. And slowing growth isn't a bad thing, just depends on the reasons why which we'll never really know.

As for Aristeia and the new game that's just diversification and a really smart move and not a sign of stagnation for the core game but protecting against the possible future of it doing so. It also expands their audience. I personally know more people that like GW because of their Specialist Game line and the setting then people that actually play 40k or AoS/WFB.

 Monkeysloth wrote:

 Alkasyn wrote:


Interesting analysis and my opinion exactly. CB are stagnating now and are looking for additional sources of revenue / trying to stir the fanbase (Aristeia, moving to the book a-quarter system, spamming us with "new" sectorials) but in the end they're simply hoping for another "golden shot" like back when they hit it off with Icestorm.

The problem is, back then the market was way smaller and GW was on the deathbed. Now, GW is back in force and all small companies, of which there seems to be more now than at anytme in recent past, are fighting for an ever-shrinking market.

Do we know that? I can't remember if Carlos shared growth numbers last gencon like he has the previous few. If he did then clearly it wouldn't be the case (as they're no way they'd share negative numbers) but I do think the 2017 gencon's report showed things starting to level out and Carlos saying this was expected tail of the N3 growth train. And slowing growth isn't a bad thing, just depends on the reasons why which we'll never really know.

As for Aristeia and the new game that's just diversification and a really smart move and not a sign of stagnation for the core game but protecting against the possible future of it doing so. It also expands their audience. I personally know more people that like GW because of their Specialist Game line and the setting then people that actually play 40k or AoS/WFB.

PP is a good example of a company that stalled out and had nothing else to really fall back on (besides their RPG). That is why you see PP suddenly pushing Monsterpocalypse and their new Riot Quest so hard. They have tasted stagnation and do not wish to fall victim to it again. Same with GW, really, Fantasy stagnated and, to an extent, so did 40k. That is one of the main drivers behind the Smörgåsbord of new games GW and FW have been pushing lately. The best way to avoid faltering is to have a diverse portfolio. Even if your sub games are not as popular or as profitable as your main games, they could be the difference between a company folding and a company limping on during hard times.

 Grey Templar wrote:
The reason it is a problem is because anybody who might have been considering starting Tohaa, either now or in the future, will likely now decide not to do so. Namely because 1/3 of the models are OOP.

If there isn't anybody new playing a faction then that faction will slowly wither and die off. Especially since there is no guarantee that CB will ever bring these discontinued factions back into production. And no, the company saying that they promise to bring them back at some point in the future is not a guarantee.

Heck, simply not giving a faction new releases is enough to cause it to somewhat die off. Look at the French. No new releases for forever meant the fanbase just dried up into nothing but a small pool of hardcore fans, not exactly the most inviting option for a new player. And then it was made worse by discontinuing the line.

Now this problem wouldn't occur if CB was doing the smart thing. The thing that they really should be doing if they actually genuinely had a SKU problem. Consolidating SKUs into more consumer/producer friendly packaging. IE: Discontinue models/sculpts A, B, and C, and then release a new package which combined those 3 model profiles into a single SKU. Its ok to discontinue a sculpt if you eventually come out with a replacement.

CB needs to have more multi-miniature boxes, preferably ones with interchangable arms and equipment allowing for multiple loadout options on a single miniature. The fact they are seemingly staunchly refusing to do this type of packaging proves that their excuses of SKU bloat are just that, excuses. That or they are grossly incompetent.

The real reason for this is CB refuses to actually grow as a company. They've become victims of their own success, but they really can't afford to stay the way they are. They need to either expand the company or they're going to dry up.

Hi there. I think you made really good points. Here are my 2 cents:

Look at the French... not exactly the most inviting option for a new player.
Estimated forum user, if a new player arrives at INFINITY today the least of his difficulties would be to find a nice army to jump in. I mean... How many armies does infinity offer nowadays? shall we count them? It's Twenty nine. 29 armies, my friend.

Consumer friendly packaging
Estimated forum user, I think you've made a really good point with this. Concentrating options, rules and profiles into single boxes that cover all the possible needs of the players. That would be super cool. No sarcasm here.
I think that for CB it would take like 5 years and a new edition (N4, N5 maybe...) to align all their assets into this formula that you have so generously typed here in five seconds. Five years reading forums posts of people saying things like this.

I would go even further and say Why CB cannot be GW?, wich is essentially what every forum user is writing everywhere. Why are they not using APC plastic? Why not multi piece sets? Why not Codex every three months? Why not Massive Battles? Why not heroic Scale? Why not D6? Why not Spess Marines?

At the end, the biggest problem for CB is that fact that GW exists. It totally eclipses them and they cannot compete. I think that they are not trying to compete against GW. They are trying to stay away from direct competition and do not replicate their business model. They keep doing their thing in their own spaniard erratic random self indulgent way and they keep surviving doing it since 2005. I think that many wargamers look at CB as the alternative to GW because they are still here, while other games keep dying. They are like the last man standing.

Somehow, it's the fanbase who demands CB to compete. To start a fight that they cannot win.

Honestly, if someone were to ask me about starting Tohaa today, I'd point them to the Spiral Corps box and be on their way. You have to be a pretty uniquely knowledgeable outsider to have a sincere preference between the two against the one that's got that newer, consumer friendlier packaging.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Boo for Azra'ils getting discontinued.

The new big ones? Both fo them?

 .Mikes. wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Boo for Azra'ils getting discontinued.

The new big ones? Both fo them?

Yup!

 BobbaFett wrote:


Look at the French... not exactly the most inviting option for a new player.
Estimated forum user, if a new player arrives at INFINITY today the least of his difficulties would be to find a nice army to jump in. I mean... How many armies does infinity offer nowadays? shall we count them? It's Twenty nine. 29 armies, my friend.

Sure, only if you falsely assume everybody just picks a faction at random. But perhaps someone really likes the fluff of Merverongia. They like the idea of technologically inferior frenchmen. I play TAK and USAriadna because I liked Spess MURICA! and SPESS RUSSIA! Its not unreasonable that you'd find people who want to play Spess Frenchies. And for them, other factions just wont do, they just wont do at all.

At the end, the biggest problem for CB is that fact that GW exists. It totally eclipses them and they cannot compete. I think that they are not trying to compete against GW. They are trying to stay away from direct competition and do not replicate their business model. They keep doing their thing in their own spaniard erratic random self indulgent way and they keep surviving doing it since 2005. I think that many wargamers look at CB as the alternative to GW because they are still here, while other games keep dying. They are like the last man standing.

Somehow, it's the fanbase who demands CB to compete. To start a fight that they cannot win.

Nobody is asking CB to become GW, good lord no. That would be terrible. We're just asking for them to make sensible business decisions and not give excuses that are obviously not really the issue. Stop saying SKU bloat is a problem because its so painfully false. A company with SKU bloat doesn't keep releasing useless models like TAG pilots, flavor of the month HVTs, the entire Bootleg line, models without additional equipment options, etc... And such a company certainly wouldn't be working on another miniature game for future release! This really is akin to someone saying they're struggling financially while at the same time constantly taking their friends out to dinner at expensive restaurants. Contradictory signals.

There are many flaws that GW has, but how they design their miniature boxes and package them is not one of them. Everybody who makes miniature games should copy GW in the sense that they should make their miniatures be multi-part kits with various equipment options. You don't have to make them in plastic, you don't have to have the level of customisability that GW lets you have. There is plenty of freedom to do your own thing, do things better than GW in areas where they fall short. You should do this especially if you are a small company that, allegedly, struggles with SKU counts.

And like it or not, if you are making a miniature game you are competing with GW. And PP, and Warlord, and Fantasy Flight, and any other table top wargame company. Everybody has their own spin on it, but you are all competing for the same customers.

@BobbaFett you get it 100% it's a game by crazy Spaniards for grown-ups! I think I just fell for you <3 ; p

The color scheme is pretty sweet to me it looks like a Army full of super soldiers little baby Tariq's.

Monstruckers if I was a betting man... I would guess that these are like fat wheeled motorcycle guys or something I can't see them actually putting "vehicles" on the table

I got a feeling next year's going to be a lot more quiet and they're going to be doing one of those years where they build stuff to fill in the gaps for all these armies 3rd offensive will be over... well at least the release of all the stuff will be over. And they can focus on filling in the holes that they couldn't get filled in this year that's just my guess and I still think they're going to put out a new 15 mm game so they don't "Cannibalize" Infinity or Aristea and that might be the big thing to do next year put out a new game get some support moving for it and then fill in the holes and infinity that need to be filled from the big big General releases they made this year

 Kanluwen wrote:

 .Mikes. wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Boo for Azra'ils getting discontinued.

The new big ones? Both fo them?

Yup!

A shame really. I mean, they had basically empty profiles, but the models were cool. They were a prime candidate for a complete rework of their profile.

CB's acknowledged that they have a problem with too many SKUs, and they really haven't done anything about that other than bail water. They've been bailing the SKU water since 2nd edition.

If you wanted to be optimistic, and assumed that CB could release one SKU to cover each new profile announced this week, how many new SKUs would be required? If you take the SKUs that were announced as being discontinued "in a few months" and compare that to the Spiral Corps list, I think you come out even.

The big problem, I think, is that CB's in a no-win situation concerning the troop profiles that they don't think they can keep manufacturing:
* If they treat them like the Exrah that just alienates the players who purchased the models
* If they discontinue the SKUs and leave the sectorial as it is, that's the MRRF situation
* If they discontinue the SKUs and continue to add new models (the Tohaa situation) you get a new and completely different mess.

To be pessimistic, it seems unrealistic to expect improvements to take to place to the discontinued SKU profiles. Especially when the new models look like they're providing better replacements for what some of the discontinued models were trying to do.

And then, in "a few months" when the SKUs are discontinued...

The tournament rules have the same self-contradictory problem. First it says:

Each figure must represent faithfully the unit it stands for, including its equipment and weapon options.

then it throws that out the window:

Should the appropriate miniature not be available on the Infinity range, you can use a different Corvus Belli miniature as a stand-in, but you must inform your opponent unequivocally of what that figure represents.

and

Under no circumstances can miniatures from other brands or manufacturers be used as proxies. The use of other Corvus Belli miniatures is allowed; however, players must inform their adversary which trooper is being represented. The figure must use the same size base as the trooper being represented.

The "pending discontinued" list:
- Tohaa starter pack (basically redundant with the other discontinued)
- Sukeul Commandos. (AVA 4)
- Gorgos (AVA 1). Profile says "TAG".
- Kotail Mobile (AVA 4). Superjumping holoprojector dudes
- Nikoul Unit (AVA 2) (The foxhole artichokes)
- Gao Tarsos (AVA 3). Jump artichokes
- Sakiel Regiment (the other artichoke in the starter pack)
- Ectros Regiment (AVA 4). (The horned HI artichoke in the starter pack)
- Kamael Light Infantry (AVA total) (the LI in the starter pack, basically)
- Makaul (AVA 6) (The box of four that included the artichoke with the pole arm)

The other model in the starter pack is the Clipsos Infiltrator, and there's a resculpt of that in the new box.

I'm looking at the list of models in the 300 point Tohaa army pack. The Kaeltar Specialists are the only thing in the 300 point pack that's not "pending discontinued". I bring it up because it's quite feasible to be fielding an army list entirely composed of the "pending discontinued" models, or to end up wanting to give that army list a try in a few months when those models are going to be discontinued. The very honest, very complete Tohaa total proxy army. And what kind of tournament experience is that, for either player?

 Kanluwen wrote:

 .Mikes. wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Boo for Azra'ils getting discontinued.

The new big ones? Both fo them?

Yup!

Well....bugger. I'd just decided ot start hAqq, too. Looks like I'm picking up the HMG variant while I can depiste not having a place in a list for it. It's ASS all over again.

 5deadly wrote:



 

 

These concept shots look fantastic! I hope the final models look as good because I will definately snap them up if they do!

They are pretty badass man! I got a solid Hassassin Army...
Thinking about picking up thise Hortlak as a Druze replacement... I love the rules for Druze I just don't like their helmets...

@.Mikes. I run Shock Army and I picked up as much stuff as I could before they went out.

Just grab a couple models man before they get discoed..
Either infinity is worth it or it's not....

But Games Workshop hasn't seen a dime of my money in over 12 years and I have zero regrets about that....

 5deadly wrote:

@.Mikes. I run Shock Army and I picked up as much stuff as I could before they went out.

I didn't, but hey were always on my 'to do' list. But when the announcement came I went out the next day and I got all the ASA. So far I've only painted the Tikbalang and still have unopened ASA startedr set, Bagh Mari box, BM HMG, Akalis, Guarda, Kirpal Singh and Stepehn Rao on my desk.

Random thoughts:

This Namurr I guess was the numair to which Bostria referred to ~4.5 years ago, along with the Mukhtair. It's an interesting profile to unpack.

Get that Carmen Johns crap out of Muh Sectorial! get it out!

QK stays in Haqq. Good. The Azra'il going OOP puzzles me. I wonder if there will be new Hafza or a Djanbazan sniper anytime soon. We did just get the Oda spitfire. Like with the ASA, I have the minis I want from the surprisingly short discontinued list. (2 Azra'ils, 3 Hafzas, 5 Sekban and 2 Al Hawwas and 1 Djanbazan)

Hortlak Janissary, hunh?

Don't like the hoodie in the Mukhtair. Actually, don't like it's look at all. Not very "Haqq".

These 6-2 move profiles. Very, very interesting. Lots of mimetism and V:NWI.

No truly bad news for Haqq, and Ramah looks very promising.

 Red Harvest wrote:
Don't like the hoodie in the Mukhtair. Actually, don't like it's look at all. Not very "Haqq".

It's Red Hood, not a Haqq model. Despite having a model released this quarter directly named after Moon Knight, a random Haqq unit has the direct comic book port. Cool look, but it's not Haqq

 Red Harvest wrote:
Random thoughts:

This Namurr I guess was the numair to which Bostria referred to ~4.5 years ago, along with the Mukhtair. It's an interesting profile to unpack.

Get that Carmen Johns crap out of Muh Sectorial! get it out!

QK stays in Haqq. Good. The Azra'il going OOP puzzles me. I wonder if there will be new Hafza or a Djanbazan sniper anytime soon. We did just get the Oda spitfire. Like with the ASA, I have the minis I want from the surprisingly short discontinued list. (2 Azra'ils, 3 Hafzas, 5 Sekban and 2 Al Hawwas and 1 Djanbazan)

Hortlak Janissary, hunh?

Don't like the hoodie in the Mukhtair. Actually, don't like it's look at all. Not very "Haqq".

These 6-2 move profiles. Very, very interesting. Lots of mimetism and V:NWI.

No truly bad news for Haqq, and Ramah looks very promising.

The Mukhtar is a total toolbox unit lots of ranges it can fight in with each option. 3 specialist options and a MSV2. It's hard to hit, it can get close, template on every profile and NWI to boot... seems pretty solid.
The Namurr is pretty sick 18 to dodge w/ HDL2, Multi terrain so movement and rescue not a problem, Total Immunity is great, Climbing Plus on a 6-2 is sweet... but all of that with that E/Marat pretty intense vs. EM soft targets "Roll twice please"... up n down- n template=fried circuits... kinda like her
The Hortlak just looks cool like very cool... another CoC unit and it can shut down HI/Tags at range with the Blitzen... pretty cool

 Red Harvest wrote:
The Azra'il going OOP puzzles me.

Me too. Were they not selling well or something? Could it be that the Al Fasid undermined them with their better stat line and equipment? Personally I love the models.

 Grey Templar wrote:

Nobody is asking CB to become GW, good lord no. That would be terrible. We're just asking for them to make sensible business decisions and not give excuses that are obviously not really the issue. Stop saying SKU bloat is a problem because its so painfully false. A company with SKU bloat doesn't keep releasing useless models like TAG pilots, flavor of the month HVTs, the entire Bootleg line, models without additional equipment options, etc... And such a company certainly wouldn't be working on another miniature game for future release! This really is akin to someone saying they're struggling financially while at the same time constantly taking their friends out to dinner at expensive restaurants. Contradictory signals.

There are many flaws that GW has, but how they design their miniature boxes and package them is not one of them. Everybody who makes miniature games should copy GW in the sense that they should make their miniatures be multi-part kits with various equipment options. You don't have to make them in plastic, you don't have to have the level of customisability that GW lets you have. There is plenty of freedom to do your own thing, do things better than GW in areas where they fall short. You should do this especially if you are a small company that, allegedly, struggles with SKU counts.

And like it or not, if you are making a miniature game you are competing with GW. And PP, and Warlord, and Fantasy Flight, and any other table top wargame company. Everybody has their own spin on it, but you are all competing for the same customers.

You are making really good points. I must say I do not totally disagree with you.
Now, let's be a bit more specific:

Stop saying SKU bloat is a problem because its so painfully false.
This is directly a passionate statement that seems away from facts. INFINITY has an SKU problem. The game is not popular enough to keep distributors and stores stocking a huge range of thousands of SKUs. CB might be able to handle 30 armies but game popularity here is another element. You can ask stores to have a wall of GW products because they are the market leader, but try to tell a guy with a store in Alabama to fill his north wall with these orange boxes of a silly Spanish not mainstream game that carries 30 armies and a gazillion blisters and the guy will spit on the ground and ask "why?". Infinity sales only became a thing when they did concentrate on boxes like Operation Icestorm, suddenly in 2014 they were the prettiest girl in the ballroom. Suddenly they had an actual product that was selling copies everywhere. They did that almost nine years after begining with their game. They are not business genious, that's a fact.

A company with SKU bloath doesn't keep releasing useless models like TAG pilots, flavor of the month HVTs, the entire Bootleg line,
All those things are like from 2013. Back in the day, these sculptors turned into businesmen were not even aware of the concept of SKU bloath. Damn! I think that they even didn't have barcodes in their boxes back then.

Everybody who makes miniature games should copy GW (Regarding multipart kits).
While I disagree about copying GW in many many many angles, the multi part kit seems like a fair strong point here. But, we must consider that the price of those boxes will increase, since CB essentially sells pieces, not sprues. Once again we must consider "popularity" here because a price increase on their product might make their range step away from that "100$ army" business model "Low model count game" label that they have been benefiting from so long ago.
Personally, I'm ok with this. I think that CB miniature spainted by Giraldez look so fine that people will pay the price anyway. Some haters will complain but the outcome might worth it. Who knows? maybe they are afraid to change this kind of formulas because they struggling with paying the next Lamborghini.

do things better than GW in areas where they fall short.
Like releasing actual female attractive sci fi miniatures since 2005. I truly think that was the CB mainstream appealing feature since the beginign.

if you are making a miniature game you are competing with GW. And PP, and Warlord, and Fantasy Flight, and any other table top wargame company.
Absolutely agree, but for some crazy reason these artists have been around for so long that I think they are doing something right. We all have seen companies die and games dissapear since 2005. CB is in a comfort zone where if they try to become mainstream they will be smashed.

Nice conversation.

If I am allowed, just to clarify one or two things, most of the ideas presented here and quite a few not, have been suggested, examined and a few even tried. Fact is if they were considered, examined and not selected, there are researched reasons for it.

On the GW thing, nobody should really try to be GW, not even GW, GW has a really privileged and unique history that will never be repeated again by any company, the moves and decisions they make now are based on an entirely different scale and leverage that no company outside them has.

Companies should try to work out the best they can for their market share and their target audience, dependent on their manufacturing and distribution capabilities and not what other companies outside their league do.

But if one wants to take a good advice from GW, IP, IP, IP, don't sell "just" miniatures, don't sell "just" rules, sell a living breathing world that makes your consumers think about it when they are not playing.

The Az models are the only reason I started Haq to be honest shame there getting squatted.

Pretty sure this release is going to kill Infinity in my area completely, it was never particularly strong in the 1st place to be fair. I had armies for years before I actually met another player but more recently there was around 8 of us. CB have slowly whittled that down to 4 of us with there “Business” decisions and this is likely to finish it off.

Ultimately whatever bs line the company and there water carriers come out with, the fact remains they seem to be running the game towards the MtG style release schedule of release and kill, combined with GW’s worst practices and smattering of tax avoidance, racism and poor taste.

However if your fine with dropping £100’s on armies with an unknown but preordained use by date, then more power to you and I can understand it to an extent as infinity and it’s cybepunkish style setting has no real competition.

However I am done, no I won’t be melting my armies I just won’t be buying more. Likely I will sell my Aleph,Haqq,Ardinia,CI,Pan,JSA forces but keep my Nomads for old times sake well except for the teeny tiny corr stuff that’s going too.

Ironically enough I will still play Infinity but just through the RPG which has actual picked up a local following.

Or just forget about this ITS nonsense and just play the game the way you want to. CB can say that a particular unit profile is "obsolete" all they like, but unless Carlos comes to my house and steals my PC, I don't care.

I hope you do understand, no models have been removed from the rules, the army lists or the ITS.

So if you are worried about gameplay or your existing collection all worries are for nothing.

Apart from all those JSA units that were part of my Yu Jing army, of course. No fielding Keisotsu Butai instead of Zanshi to save a couple of points to upgrade my Invincible to a Multi-Rifle, for example. Or having Ko Dali leading my Tiger Soldiers.

I was under the impression this discussion was about Daedalus falls news and rumours.

edit But since you mentioned it, Ko Dali was something from the second edition and I think mistakes like her profile do not happen anymore,(almost) all JSA models, more or less, are still in the game and the rules not under Yu Jing but still available and playable.


In any case Last two NA2 armies videos.

Optional parts and plastic go hand in hand. Plastic basically has no material cost; its all in the investment you put into the mold, so adding extra bits is pretty trivial, but you have to have some pretty high sales figures to break even. Resin and metal work on better margins, but have more materials costs, so every piece added has a more direct impact on what the SKU needs to cost to break even.

The way GW does their models also has some aesthetic limitations to consider. There are a lot of kinds of details that don't work great in sprue plastic, though GW has done a pretty masterful job of hiding it over the years. There's a reason though, as GW has put more unique details on models, we've seen things far fewer kits with options in them.

I am afraid you confuse multi part ( a fact of life with plastic moulding) and multiposed.

Infinity models are usually multipart and will be even more multi part if done in plastic if the quality is to be maintained, multiposed on the other hand would be a massive drop in the quality and aesthetics of CB and nothing that interests CB.

Plastics is a question of sales (and a few other things) and except a few really heavy hitters there is little financial reason to switch to plastics.

SeanDrake wrote:
The Az models are the only reason I started Haq to be honest shame there getting squatted.

Pretty sure this release is going to kill Infinity in my area completely, it was never particularly strong in the 1st place to be fair. I had armies for years before I actually met another player but more recently there was around 8 of us. CB have slowly whittled that down to 4 of us with there “Business” decisions and this is likely to finish it off.

Ultimately whatever bs line the company and there water carriers come out with, the fact remains they seem to be running the game towards the MtG style release schedule of release and kill, combined with GW’s worst practices and smattering of tax avoidance, racism and poor taste.

However if your fine with dropping £100’s on armies with an unknown but preordained use by date, then more power to you and I can understand it to an extent as infinity and it’s cybepunkish style setting has no real competition.

However I am done, no I won’t be melting my armies I just won’t be buying more. Likely I will sell my Aleph,Haqq,Ardinia,CI,Pan,JSA forces but keep my Nomads for old times sake well except for the teeny tiny corr stuff that’s going too.

Ironically enough I will still play Infinity but just through the RPG which has actual picked up a local following.

This is one of the most over-exaggerated post I've seen another very Silly Billy over-reaction post but if you're leaving take care God bless May the wind be at your back and May all your days be filled with sunshine.

Second thing plastic and multi-part don't have anything to do with each other if you actually owned a few of corvus belli core box as you would realize that the bodies of the same and at the heads and arms are different so that shoots whatever you said right into the gutter plastic and multi-part aren't the same that's another Silly Billy statement....

And lastly and I want you guys to really stop and think about this just for a minute it took Games Workshop almost 20 years to make a new Abaddon the Despoiler....

That SKU could have been pulled off the shelf years ago and everybody could have gotten a beautiful new model once every 10 years maybe something like that do you get where I'm going with this yet sheep minded GW fans coming new into the game or buying that garbage model for years and years and years so before you Heroes come charging in with your swords waving your flags you should stop and think about the garbage crap model you had to purchase from GW for for almost 20 years... is the model great yeah it's really cool am I going to buy one no Games Workshop doesn't get my money anymore because of their business practices....

Just give that some thought every single person reading these posts who owns a garbage 1952 Abaddon the despoiler model you go ahead and think about how you put 20 bucks into that garbage model and make the next one you're going to buy is going to be around what $40????
I'm done responding to all these texts and nobody here is even talking about the releases or the rules or anything else I'mma go ahead and check out on dakka for a little while and you guys can argue it out about who's going to be a fan after this and who's not

I'm going to go ahead and go to the Infinity forums where it's like minded people that aren't a bunch of and I'm just going to say it there's a lot of idiot round these parts...

I just realized I'm on a forum called DAKKA... trying to talk to a group of GW fans about a game they actually don't have any interest in and they're not really vested in the people I should be talking with this entire week or in a completely different form now I know why I stayed away from this form for so long...
Damn I wasted my my whole brand new release week here with you guys and all you did was sit and complain about Corvus SKUs and then not being your Games Workshop clone....
For the person who said it took them nine years to come up with operation ice storm and to be able to hit in the stores I'd like to remind you that Games Workshop started out in 1975 and they didn't get a major hit in the stores until the mid 90s...

For the longest time I was buying squatty little gross looking import models from them and their models can't hold a candle to a basic Infinity model... they even have memes comparing The Squatty Games workshop's models to a beautifully sculpted HaqqIslam heavy armored troop....

I'm done here this place is what I've come to expect from Dakka and nothing's actually changed here at all at all.
Faq you, faq you, faq you, faq you, faq you, You're cool, I'm out

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
I am afraid you confuse multi part ( a fact of life with plastic moulding) and multiposed.

Infinity models are usually multipart and will be even more multi part if done in plastic if the quality is to be maintained, multiposed on the other hand would be a massive drop in the quality and aesthetics of CB and nothing that interests CB.

Plastics is a question of sales (and a few other things) and except a few really heavy hitters there is little financial reason to switch to plastics.

Sorry, yes. I wasn't referring to single piece models. Can replace that with "optional parts" if that's clearer.

And may everyone continue to like what they like and have an opinion too!

I am really exited to see what CB has in store for us with Shasvastii in DF - need more actual model reveals!

Wow, someone really has issues and needs to realize that just because people have different opinions doesn't mean there's some nefarious plot behind the scenes. I like Dakka because people don't agree and discussions can happen. I like Infinity (the only GW produced product I own is Silvertower but I do like the RPGs in the settings) while I probably have 1/3 the infinity as well as all the books in the RPG line so clearly I want CB to fail.

Is it just me or are NA2 armies becoming way more interesting the vanilla or sectorials? Maybe it's my bias towards JSA and Tohaa and me having lots of other random figures but I just don't see myself wanting to play anything else and none of the new non-NA2 stuff have really done anything for me.

 LunarSol wrote:

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
I am afraid you confuse multi part ( a fact of life with plastic moulding) and multiposed.

Infinity models are usually multipart and will be even more multi part if done in plastic if the quality is to be maintained, multiposed on the other hand would be a massive drop in the quality and aesthetics of CB and nothing that interests CB.

Plastics is a question of sales (and a few other things) and except a few really heavy hitters there is little financial reason to switch to plastics.

Sorry, yes. I wasn't referring to single piece models. Can replace that with "optional parts" if that's clearer.

Pretty much this. Not multipose but multipart. If CB sold me a box of Keisotsu (just an example as I was looking at them last night) that had bodies and arms to make any of the profiles they could cut down on a lot of extra SKU and sell more to me. Even if it's $5 more it would be worth it for me to just buy 2-3 boxes of them to get everything I wanted instead of 2 separate boxes that don't even give me half the profiles. Same with any AVA Total. Now if that did that with most profiles and they'd have half the SKUs they currently have. It's strange they're big into having miniatures to represent each weapon loadout when most units have 5+ but don't provide multipart kits to build what you want.

 Monkeysloth wrote:
Wow, someone really has issues and needs to realize that just because people have different opinions doesn't mean there's some nefarious plot behind the scenes. I like Dakka because people don't agree and discussions can happen. I like Infinity (the only GW produced product I own is Silvertower but I do like the RPGs in the settings) while I probably have 1/3 the infinity as well as all the books in the RPG line so clearly I want CB to fail.

Is it just me or are NA2 armies becoming way more interesting the vanilla or sectorials? Maybe it's my bias towards JSA and Tohaa and me having lots of other random figures but I just don't see myself wanting to play anything else and none of the new non-NA2 stuff have really done anything for me.

 LunarSol wrote:

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
I am afraid you confuse multi part ( a fact of life with plastic moulding) and multiposed.

Infinity models are usually multipart and will be even more multi part if done in plastic if the quality is to be maintained, multiposed on the other hand would be a massive drop in the quality and aesthetics of CB and nothing that interests CB.

Plastics is a question of sales (and a few other things) and except a few really heavy hitters there is little financial reason to switch to plastics.

Sorry, yes. I wasn't referring to single piece models. Can replace that with "optional parts" if that's clearer.

Pretty much this. Not multipose but multipart. If CB sold me a box of Keisotsu (just an example as I was looking at them last night) that had bodies and arms to make any of the profiles they could cut down on a lot of extra SKU and sell more to me. Even if it's $5 more it would be worth it for me to just buy 2-3 boxes of them to get everything I wanted instead of 2 separate boxes that don't even give me half the profiles. Same with any AVA Total. Now if that did that with most profiles and they'd have half the SKUs they currently have. It's strange they're big into having miniatures to represent each weapon loadout when most units have 5+ but don't provide multipart kits to build what you want.

As a guy coming from a GW game which is very WYSIWYG, it is a little jarring to come to Infinity and find it is very proxy heavy kind of game. I do not see how it would be a terrible burden to give us 1 of each weapon option in a box that has 4 guys in it. Most units only have 5 or 6 gun options to begin with.

 Red_Five wrote:

As a guy coming from a GW game which is very WYSIWYG, it is a little jarring to come to Infinity and find it is very proxy heavy kind of game. I do not see how it would be a terrible burden to give us 1 of each weapon option in a box that has 4 guys in it. Most units only have 5 or 6 gun options to begin with.

Simple, would you buy the box if it was 5$ more? what if it was 10$ more because of the extra parts? would you buy two at that cost because you needed one extra model? if the answer is yes, how many people you expect to do the same and not be sticker shocked by the price?

How soon you will hear people complaining that poses are boring for all this interchangeable thing and boxes would be cheaper and models would be greater if they just split the box in two?

You may notice GW and extra stuff in their sprews in a relatively new thing and extra stuff in their metal/ resin castings is almost unheard of, both for some reasons, not necessarily greed.

It's that perpetual "get exactly what I need" kind of problem. Right now, the problem is that if you want a second of something, you need to buy a box of 4 to get that one model. Flip it around to singles and you get the problem if buying 1 probably at 1.33-1.5 cost with 2 sets of arms that you only can use one of and find yourself wanting to buy just bodies to use your extra arms.

Honestly, part of the problem is that the game isn't designed in a way that lines up practically with the way its sold. Personally, I think the better solution is to make most of the loadouts unique with likely a special rule for base combi stuff that are sold in multiples. The game is sold as armies of unique models so whenever there's an in game reason to double up it always feels a little... gamey.

This is a problem I had with Wyrd all through M2E and part of the reason I'm excited about how M3E is shaping up. Buying endless boxes of 3 sometimes 8 models for the one I needed built up this huge backlog of stuff that wasn't going to see the table. The lists I've been running in M3E line up far better with the way the game is actually sold and that's done wonders for making things more accessible.

I know there's no pleasing everyone as you two are saying but the extra arm options does solve the SKU and loadout issue we've been discussing.

Making most loadouts unique would really shake the game up and force people to try other units and profiles and solve the problem of people feeling forced to buy things they don't want but it doesn't solve the SKU bloat in addition to adding potential backlash for that significant rules change.

I find it hilarious that GW is being propped up as this role-model of miniatures production. GW models are currently amazing, but remember how many DECADES of being the number 1 miniatures producer on the market to get here.
Rant in 3...2...1...

CB isn't perfect, and they really do bloody well need to start making more multi-armed sets (the Myrmidon officer w/ boarding shotgun arm and multi rifle arms is my perfect example of how it should be done), but it's hardly a unique problem to Infinity. And after learning the hard lesson from squatting Exrah, they haven't removed any armies from the game when they discontinue production of models. Can you imagine GW saying "Oh, heads up guys, we're not going to make Mordians in 3 months so fill out your armys now, and ilso here's a new codex for them so you can stay competative in RTTs". No. GW has REPEATEDLY discontinued entire armies and left the players out to dry, players that needed to spend MUCH more money on those armies than any Infinity Sectorial.

But sure, please keep using GW as the example to live up to /sarcasm

Why can't we say CB can be better then they currently are and point to the market leader? Sure GW isn't perfect either and CB does things better then GW but at the same time it's more stupid to ignore GW's existence. Also we're really not referencing GW that much. But a lot of people just see those two letters and get upset.

CB has a SKU problem that they point to as a driving decision for things we, as fans, feel is bad for the game so we're looking at what can solve that issue outside of removing models. Why this triggers so many people I have no idea.

Another way to solve the problem would be to make the arms and the guns separate, that way you could swap in the guns you want and pose them however you desire. Of course the drawback to this is that the model becomes more difficult to glue to glue together.

Another solution would be to create a kit like the Spec-Ops models, that have multiple guns in their blister. For those players who really care for accurate models, they can take the gun bitz and customize other models fairly cheaply (which is something I have done before). It does not resolve all of the problems (especially for unique or special weapons) but it does alleviate some of the headaches.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kalamadea wrote:
I find it hilarious that GW is being propped up as this role-model of miniatures production. GW models are currently amazing, but remember how many DECADES of being the number 1 miniatures producer on the market to get here.
Rant in 3...2...1...

Spoiler:

I remember building a Salamanders army for 3rd ed 40k in 2001 and not being able to get thunder hammers for power armor, they just flat out didn't exist. Or lightning claws. Or storm shields. "Rules say I can give my vet sergeants a signum? SWEET! What even is that?" You had to buy a metal terminator arm (plastic assault terminators did not exist), cut off the piece and try to make it fit on a power armor hand. Had to use metal multi-meltas and metal plasmaguns an meltaguns on plastic figures, because the plastic Tactical Squad only had a flamer and a missile launcher. Want a heavy Bolter or autocannon for your plastic Dreadnought? Make one from bits, they don't even make a metal one. GW had been making models for over 20 years by this point.

This problem of not having all the options has been around for decades, it's not unique to Infinity, and GW's method of solving it has instead been to limit in-game options to ONLY what comes in their boxes. That would be the WORST option for CB, can you imagine them stripping out all the profiles for models they don't produce? That's EXACTLY what GW has done, and they never gave you any advance warning. CB is squatting sectorials? Well no, they arentt, but even if they were the reason we use the term is because GW literally squatted the Squats. What's that, you collected Genestealer Cult in 2nd ed? Or Harlequins? What if you started a Kroot Mercenary army in 3rd? Well, we finally redid those armies 15 years later, hope you're still around. Except for Kroot. Or Feral Orks. Where's the 8th edition rules for Gnarlocs and squiggoths? Where's that Feral Orks list? What about that Gue'vasa unit I converted up becuase GW wouldn't make a model for it? And thank God I sold off my Tanith models a few years ago, I'd have to proxy them as...Catachans? Tallarn? Where's my statline for Larkin and Brin Milo?

CB isn't perfect, and they really do bloody well need to start making more multi-armed sets (the Myrmidon officer w/ boarding shotgun arm and multi rifle arms is my perfect example of how it should be done), but it's hardly a unique problem to Infinity. And after learning the hard lesson from squatting Exrah, they haven't removed any armies from the game when they discontinue production of models. Can you imagine GW saying "Oh, heads up guys, we're not going to make Mordians in 3 months so fill out your armys now, and ilso here's a new codex for them so you can stay competative in RTTs". No. GW has REPEATEDLY discontinued entire armies and left the players out to dry, players that needed to spend MUCH more money on those armies than any Infinity Sectorial.

But sure, please keep using GW as the example to live up to /sarcasm

I don't think GW is perfect but they have, in recent times, given you all the bitz in the box - which is what people want. They do not want CB to become GW. They just want gun bitz in the box

ya, after having to try and put together the original capliso compared to beyond Red Veil I can say I don't think making things harder to assemble would be ideal but it would give a lot of flexibility.

As for weapon packs even just last year CB said no to them even though they use to put them in ITS packs (I have some) as they won't sell enough to justify the time (probably accurate).

If we're just throwing out new ideas team with shapeways and allow people to order the pose/loadout they want delivered for $20 a pop. No real loss on CB's part time wise, probably get more for that one figure then they do selling a metal one and people that really want a specific loadout can get it. It's not price friendly at all but it would work. Then just sell the main profile or two intended for that unit.

 Red_Five wrote:
I don't think GW is perfect but they have, in recent times, given you all the bitz in the box - which is what people want. They do not want CB to become GW. They just want gun bitz in the box

Kind of, GWs solution is to ONLY give you rules for stuff they already include in the box. If CB were to go that route, we'd just not have rules Securiate w/ Feuerbachs, because that's not an option in the box. I think that's a bigger problem (and a worse way to do it) than to have options that there with no models. Especially with CBs lax proxy rules.

I do wish there was some kind of Forgeworld for Infinity. But while CB has shown themselves more than happy to team up w/ other companies for terrain and accessories, licensing alt sculpts/arms for miniatures probably steps too closely to the one thing CB makes all their money on.

Hey guys, is it possible to just stick to news and rumours, please?

Love the new look for the Shasavastii models.

 Nova_Impero wrote:
Love the new look for the Shasavastii models.

Indeed!

Looking forward to seeing the models in the metal too.

The artwork for the new speculo killer is just frickin' terrifying.

 5deadly wrote:
The Mukhtar is a total toolbox unit lots of ranges it can fight in with each option. 3 specialist options and a MSV2. It's hard to hit, it can get close, template on every profile and NWI to boot... seems pretty solid.

It is a fine looking unit on paper, but if I don't like the look of the mini, I do not buy the mini, no matter how effective the unit is. I'll see about proxies for it. For example: In my ASA, I use a dasyus hacker and a danavas in place of the naga hacker and minelayer because I dislike those minis.

Life is too short to waste time assembling and painting minis I don't like. The Dr Doom shout out of the Ayyar was tolerable, but now a profusion of hoodies... The guys are supposed to be elite soldiers, not gangbangers.

Batrep Spiral Vs Foreign Company

More excuses to randomly expand on Nomads.... not what I need, but...

I really want that Deadpool... I mean Senor Massacre model!

 Red_Five wrote:
I really want that Deadpool... I mean Senor Massacre model!

That's his Aristeia model. It's been out for a while.

 LunarSol wrote:

 Red_Five wrote:
I really want that Deadpool... I mean Senor Massacre model!

That's his Aristeia model. It's been out for a while.

I know. But now that I want to play Foreign Company, I really, really want that model

 LunarSol wrote:
More excuses to randomly expand on Nomads.... not what I need, but...

More excuses to not actually balance Sectorials properly on CB's part.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
More excuses to randomly expand on Nomads.... not what I need, but...

More excuses to not actually balance Sectorials properly on CB's part.

Oh.... k? You can sure find the cloud in every silver lining, eh?

 LunarSol wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
More excuses to randomly expand on Nomads.... not what I need, but...

More excuses to not actually balance Sectorials properly on CB's part.

Oh.... k? You can sure find the cloud in every silver lining, eh?

You see a reason to expand Nomads on your part--I see another lackluster cashgrab on CB's part. That's all most of these NA2 forces have been quite frankly.

JSA, obviously, is the exception to the rule.

Mostly it seems like they're just trying to make armies for the Mercenary models without just taking every model released under the Mercenary banner and calling it a design. I think for the most part they've been handled pretty well, with Ikari standing out as something that's both kind of redundant and doesn't quite do enough to make an approximation of old YJ+JSA armies. Druze feels good and JSA is obviously thought through. StarCo seemed like a good CJC redesign, but now that that's actually happening I'm curious to see how they match up before deciding what I think to be honest.

Came to check if you guys can get it postive... and all I see is whining it's official I'm definitely not posting things here anymore after this....

there's no discussion about the rules
There's no discussion about how cool some of these new models are
There's no discussion about possible interest in these models or new factions
The idea that you can run Pano and Nomads together in one faction...
So yeah I am most definitely not going to post anymore I took a break for about 3 years and came back to the same faces with the same complaints and 0 positive input

I think it's time for me to take another three-year break...
I can't stand a level of armchair experts , whiny whiny whinyersons, and it's always been like that here on Dakka. it's never really been a positive Forum like ever

as far as actively contributing to the forms, taking screenshots, posting pictures etc, I'm good I'll go over to the Infinity forums and put my energy into that group instead
Anyone who's a real fan might want to spend a little more time posting over there it's a lot more positive! helpful folks
its actually a good group of people.

Dakka is a toxic cesspit

I really suggest any true Infinity fans bail on this place entirely it's never change this place has been around since Warseer... really should change from Dakka to Whiny Troll City

Enjoy the daily toxicity

You guys can catch me over at the infinity forums

DustGod Out

Sadly, the Official Infinity Forums are...not a great place.

I'm very happy when I see info from there ported over here so I...don't have to go there.

Anyway, good bye, good luck and god speed!

 5deadly wrote:
Came to check if you guys can get it postive... and all I see is whining it's official I'm definitely not posting things here anymore after this....

there's no discussion about the rules
There's no discussion about how cool some of these new models are
There's no discussion about possible interest in these models or new factions
The idea that you can run Pano and Nomads together in one faction...
So yeah I am most definitely not going to post anymore I took a break for about 3 years and came back to the same faces with the same complaints and 0 positive input

I think it's time for me to take another three-year break...
I can't stand a level of armchair experts , whiny whiny whinyersons, and it's always been like that here on Dakka. it's never really been a positive Forum like ever

as far as actively contributing to the forms, taking screenshots, posting pictures etc, I'm good I'll go over to the Infinity forums and put my energy into that group instead
Anyone who's a real fan might want to spend a little more time posting over there it's a lot more positive! helpful folks
its actually a good group of people.

Dakka is a toxic cesspit

I really suggest any true Infinity fans bail on this place entirely it's never change this place has been around since Warseer... really should change from Dakka to Whiny Troll City

Enjoy the daily toxicity

You guys can catch me over at the infinity forums

DustGod Out

The official infinity forums make Warseer look like a bastion of freedom and even handed moderation free of thought police and subservient corporate group think. (Yes I know it's an official forum ran by CB but if you have spent any time there you know what I mean)

I haven't kept up with all the news but I saw some of the Shasvastii previews. Do we have a time fram yet for when they will start releasing the new stuff? Before summer, summer, fall, next year etc?

The new Shasvastii? Not yet mentioned. Most likely is pre-orderable right before GenCon, so mid-July, and available late September. CB may trickle a few out early. I doubt this.

Ok thanks.

Eh, I don't mind the official forum but maybe it's because when I'm there (which granted hasn't been a while) I'm mostly in the hobby section.

But what I find really funny is a lot of people in this thread post there and all the discussions that happen here also happen there as Psychotic Storm can attest. So I really don't know what he's going on about.

Anyway. Anyone know when CB's Adepticon seminar is? Assuming it's on a Saturday like they tend to do. I figure Carlos would not be talking up the possibility of the new game being announced there if there wasn't a pretty good chance of it actually happening.

As for Shasvastii, they haven't even shown renders yet as when that video was recorded it hadn't started yet. I would wager that if we don't see renders at Adepticon they might be winter release.

Do the Shasvasti have a sectoral at the moment, will it be replaced, or did they just release one?

The new art is very intriguing, I’m excited to see the renders.

 Mastiff wrote:
Do the Shasvasti have a sectoral at the moment, will it be replaced, or did they just release one?

The new art is very intriguing, I’m excited to see the renders.

They have one currently that’s being revamped, the new one is out on the 27th (I think) with the other new stuff (Ramah, Spiral Corps etc).

Great, thanks for the quick answer!




...and that’s why I hang around Dakka after 20 years.

The 27th is when all the new goodies show up in the Army Builder, but I suspect that Bostria's Adepticon seminar on the 30th will be when we get a bigger glimpse of the the new Shasvastii. Renders to go with the concept art we just saw.

I'm wondering if that may be the GenCon pre-order release, a Shasvastii army box. I doubt we'll see a 2 army box this year. CB has not even released the ALEPH and Kazak starter boxes separate from Coldfront yet.

NA2 is CB's way of leaving a path open to add new sectorials, given that the main factions are almost full. Less of a cash grab and more of a way of *opening design space* And with this new Foreign Company, a way to sell even more Bolts.

 Red Harvest wrote:
The 27th is when all the new goodies show up in the Army Builder, but I suspect that Bostria's Adepticon seminar on the 30th will be when we get a bigger glimpse of the the new Shasvastii. Renders to go with the concept art we just saw.

I'm wondering if that may be the GenCon pre-order release, a Shasvastii army box. I doubt we'll see a 2 army box this year. CB has not even released the ALEPH and Kazak starter boxes separate from Coldfront yet.

NA2 is CB's way of leaving a path open to add new sectorials, given that the main factions are almost full. Less of a cash grab and more of a way of *opening design space* And with this new Foreign Company, a way to sell even more Bolts.

In their ‘what’s coming in 2019’ article, they said there was a battle box coming at GenCon, and on their web store, battlebox is how they refer to the 2 player starters.

 LunarSol wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
More excuses to randomly expand on Nomads.... not what I need, but...

More excuses to not actually balance Sectorials properly on CB's part.

Oh.... k? You can sure find the cloud in every silver lining, eh?

Yes, it's clearly Kanluwen's specialty.

My friend is really eager to see the new Shavastii models. I am too, for the few that work in the Onyx Contact Force.

 5deadly wrote:
Came to check if you guys can get it postive... and all I see is whining it's official I'm definitely not posting things here anymore after this....

there's no discussion about the rules
There's no discussion about how cool some of these new models are
There's no discussion about possible interest in these models or new factions
The idea that you can run Pano and Nomads together in one faction...
So yeah I am most definitely not going to post anymore I took a break for about 3 years and came back to the same faces with the same complaints and 0 positive input

I think it's time for me to take another three-year break...
I can't stand a level of armchair experts , whiny whiny whinyersons, and it's always been like that here on Dakka. it's never really been a positive Forum like ever

as far as actively contributing to the forms, taking screenshots, posting pictures etc, I'm good I'll go over to the Infinity forums and put my energy into that group instead
Anyone who's a real fan might want to spend a little more time posting over there it's a lot more positive! helpful folks
its actually a good group of people.

Dakka is a toxic cesspit

I really suggest any true Infinity fans bail on this place entirely it's never change this place has been around since Warseer... really should change from Dakka to Whiny Troll City

Enjoy the daily toxicity

You guys can catch me over at the infinity forums

DustGod Out

Dakka is more positive than the various faction groups that I am apart of on Facebook. Dakka is also more positive than a lot of the official English forums.

ImaGeek, I had nor read that article. Odd to release a Battle box so soon after Coldfront. Shasvastii and ??? What's left that can use a new starter?

 5deadly wrote:
Came to check if you guys can get it postive... and all I see is whining it's official I'm definitely not posting things here anymore after this....

there's no discussion about the rules
There's no discussion about how cool some of these new models are
There's no discussion about possible interest in these models or new factions
The idea that you can run Pano and Nomads together in one faction...
So yeah I am most definitely not going to post anymore I took a break for about 3 years and came back to the same faces with the same complaints and 0 positive input

I think it's time for me to take another three-year break...
I can't stand a level of armchair experts , whiny whiny whinyersons, and it's always been like that here on Dakka. it's never really been a positive Forum like ever

as far as actively contributing to the forms, taking screenshots, posting pictures etc, I'm good I'll go over to the Infinity forums and put my energy into that group instead
Anyone who's a real fan might want to spend a little more time posting over there it's a lot more positive! helpful folks
its actually a good group of people.

Dakka is a toxic cesspit

I really suggest any true Infinity fans bail on this place entirely it's never change this place has been around since Warseer... really should change from Dakka to Whiny Troll City

Enjoy the daily toxicity

You guys can catch me over at the infinity forums

DustGod Out

Ironically, this is the most negative post I've ever read in this thread.

 Red Harvest wrote:
ImaGeek, I had nor read that article. Odd to release a Battle box so soon after Coldfront. Shasvastii and ??? What's left that can use a new starter?

Shasvastii vs Tohaa would have been perfect -- especially with Spiral being the anti Shas merc company but for some reason they didn't do that. Either their going to have another NA2 in the box or they're going to restart over with Nomads or Pan0 and just have a Sectorial in there.

 Monkeysloth wrote:

 Red Harvest wrote:
ImaGeek, I had nor read that article. Odd to release a Battle box so soon after Coldfront. Shasvastii and ??? What's left that can use a new starter?

Shasvastii vs Tohaa would have been perfect -- especially with Spiral being the anti Shas merc company but for some reason they didn't do that. Either their going to have another NA2 in the box or they're going to restart over with Nomads or Pan0 and just have a Sectorial in there.

I read somewhere that human factions are the big seller so they want to include at least one in a box to boost marketability.

 Red Harvest wrote:
ImaGeek, I had nor read that article. Odd to release a Battle box so soon after Coldfront. Shasvastii and ??? What's left that can use a new starter?

Qapu Khalqi.

I posted it up during the runup for Coldfront but we could seriously have gotten better theme and balance if they'd done Druze related sets instead of ALEPH.

 .Mikes. wrote:

 Monkeysloth wrote:

 Red Harvest wrote:
ImaGeek, I had nor read that article. Odd to release a Battle box so soon after Coldfront. Shasvastii and ??? What's left that can use a new starter?

Shasvastii vs Tohaa would have been perfect -- especially with Spiral being the anti Shas merc company but for some reason they didn't do that. Either their going to have another NA2 in the box or they're going to restart over with Nomads or Pan0 and just have a Sectorial in there.

I read somewhere that human factions are the big seller so they want to include at least one in a box to boost marketability.

I remember that. I figure, however, two big alien factions getting reworks/designs might be enough to be a good seller.

 .Mikes. wrote:

 Monkeysloth wrote:

 Red Harvest wrote:
ImaGeek, I had nor read that article. Odd to release a Battle box so soon after Coldfront. Shasvastii and ??? What's left that can use a new starter?

Shasvastii vs Tohaa would have been perfect -- especially with Spiral being the anti Shas merc company but for some reason they didn't do that. Either their going to have another NA2 in the box or they're going to restart over with Nomads or Pan0 and just have a Sectorial in there.

I read somewhere that human factions are the big seller so they want to include at least one in a box to boost marketability.

Thats a kinda dumb metric to gauge sales by. 85% of the factions(if we hold sectorials and the vanilla option to each be their own) are human.

Frankly, for a sci-fi game Infinity has a lot of humans. Even GW with their 10 million flavors of Space Marines has more aliens than Infinity does.

Probably a pipe dream but Shas vs CJC Nomads would be an instant buy. Difficult since they are already in Ice Storm but could include new Wildcats, new Intruder, new Moran, and new remotes in the beyond packs.

 Monkeysloth wrote:

 .Mikes. wrote:

 Monkeysloth wrote:

 Red Harvest wrote:
ImaGeek, I had nor read that article. Odd to release a Battle box so soon after Coldfront. Shasvastii and ??? What's left that can use a new starter?

Shasvastii vs Tohaa would have been perfect -- especially with Spiral being the anti Shas merc company but for some reason they didn't do that. Either their going to have another NA2 in the box or they're going to restart over with Nomads or Pan0 and just have a Sectorial in there.

I read somewhere that human factions are the big seller so they want to include at least one in a box to boost marketability.

I remember that. I figure, however, two big alien factions getting reworks/designs might be enough to be a good seller.

I think so too, but when it comes to financial decisions like this for small companies caution often comes into it.

I just pre-ordered Daedalus Fall, the Spiral Corps starter and the new ITS pack with Victor Messer and Aida Swanson.

Looking to split a few minis from Spiral Corps to keep the cost down, so if you are interested in something in particular, send me a message. Postage will be calculated from EU.

Any state side retailers offering the same deal as CB for pre-ordering it all and getting all three figures? I figured waiting a week would give them enough time to throw up the pre-orders but I haven't seen anything yet.

I don't think any US retailers have offered this type of bundle in the past. They deal has been direct from CB or at the Con.

Corregidor v. Shasvastii in a battle box seems most likely to me. Nomads are, unfathomably, a very popular faction. The lure of a new CJC starter might be enough to overcome the usually poorer selling Aliens.

 kilcin wrote:
Any state side retailers offering the same deal as CB for pre-ordering it all and getting all three figures? I figured waiting a week would give them enough time to throw up the pre-orders but I haven't seen anything yet.

Whenever I've ordered from my LGS I've gotten the pre-order bonus. Pretty sure last year I had to order Uprising from Mini Market and I got the bonus there as well. I think its just sort of assumed; but CB doesn't have any way of enforcing it so they don't make promises.

 Red Harvest wrote:
I don't think any US retailers have offered this type of bundle in the past. They deal has been direct from CB or at the Con.

In the past they weren't able to do this. Bostria has stated that independents are supposed to be able to sell this bundle.

That said, it seems like something might be Going On Behind the Scenes as the March releases(Frontoviks, Perseus, etc) haven't even been posted on The Warstore yet and Warstore is a distributor as well as retailer.

Corregidor v. Shasvastii in a battle box seems most likely to me. Nomads are, unfathomably, a very popular faction. The lure of a new CJC starter might be enough to overcome the usually poorer selling Aliens.

Not commenting on the CJC starter bit, but they continually said ALEPH would never feature in a starter set.

Never say never, because CB keeps painting themselves into corners.

I would expect a NA2 starter before another Nomad one in a 2p box though.
And before saying "That won't work!"...I'd like to point out the contents of the Brawlers box.

A NA2 starter could easily be done as:
-Cube Jaeger with Boarding Shotgun(this was done as an ITS exclusive and has not seen a general release)
-Brawler Hacker with SMG(preorder model with Daedalus Falls, not in the Brawler box)
-3x Brawlers with Rifles+LSGs(the two in the Brawler box are called out as Engineer and Paramedic specifically, with the Paramedic having the medic gun modeled)
-Wardriver with Boarding Shotgun


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 LunarSol wrote:

 kilcin wrote:
Any state side retailers offering the same deal as CB for pre-ordering it all and getting all three figures? I figured waiting a week would give them enough time to throw up the pre-orders but I haven't seen anything yet.

Whenever I've ordered from my LGS I've gotten the pre-order bonus. Pretty sure last year I had to order Uprising from Mini Market and I got the bonus there as well. I think its just sort of assumed; but CB doesn't have any way of enforcing it so they don't make promises.

I think he's referring to the fact that Saito Togan is free when you purchase the book and Spiral Corps box.

 Grey Templar wrote:

Thats a kinda dumb metric to gauge sales by. 85% of the factions(if we hold sectorials and the vanilla option to each be their own) are human.

Frankly, for a sci-fi game Infinity has a lot of humans. Even GW with their 10 million flavors of Space Marines has more aliens than Infinity does.

Infinity has always been way more about expanding human politics to space than the normal humanity learning how small it is style you get from something like Trek or Mass Effect. There's heavy themes of colonialism that make more sense to have aliens treated like history's abused native populations than a variety of rival powers. Conflicts aren't really all that "war" based either. In some ways it would be easier if the setting existed post war with the CA and there was something of an uneasy truce than the impending invasion.

 Red Harvest wrote:
I don't think any US retailers have offered this type of bundle in the past. They deal has been direct from CB or at the Con.

Corregidor v. Shasvastii in a battle box seems most likely to me. Nomads are, unfathomably, a very popular faction. The lure of a new CJC starter might be enough to overcome the usually poorer selling Aliens.

I thought CB was getting rid of Corregidor?

Anyway, some questions!

Were does that Valkyrie figure in the Foreign Company sectorial come from?

Is it another Aristeia thing?

 Alpharius wrote:

I thought CB was getting rid of Corregidor?

Coregidor is getting revamped but not discontinued.

 Alpharius wrote:
Were does that Valkyrie figure in the Foreign Company sectorial come from?
Is it another Aristeia thing?

That'd be correct.

 Alpharius wrote:

 Red Harvest wrote:
I don't think any US retailers have offered this type of bundle in the past. They deal has been direct from CB or at the Con.

Corregidor v. Shasvastii in a battle box seems most likely to me. Nomads are, unfathomably, a very popular faction. The lure of a new CJC starter might be enough to overcome the usually poorer selling Aliens.

I thought CB was getting rid of Corregidor?

Anyway, some questions!

Were does that Valkyrie figure in the Foreign Company sectorial come from?

Is it another Aristeia thing?

Yeah, one of the Aristeia expansions is called Soldiers of Fortune, and has Hannibal, Señor Massacre, Laxmee and Valkyrie. Hannibal is the second in command of the Foreign Company (or maybe in charge, I can't remember, high up though) turned Aristo, and the others work for the company.

Is Valkyrie 'to be added soon' to IA online?

I can't locate him (?) on there now...

 Alpharius wrote:
Is Valkyrie 'to be added soon' to IA online?

I can't locate him (?) on there now...

She's in the Foreign Company, which are one of the new sectorials that'll go up on the 27th.

This is her profile btw:

Thank you - much appreciated!

Might have to pick up that Aristeia "Soldiers of Fortune" box now - very clever CB!

 Alpharius wrote:
Thank you - much appreciated!

Might have to pick up that Aristeia "Soldiers of Fortune" box now - very clever CB!

No worries! Bostria did say that Valkyrie (all of them I think, but her specifically as her design is so different) is getting a specific Infinity model, but who knows when.

Definitely want Valkyrie now! That profile is good!

 Alpharius wrote:
Thank you - much appreciated!

Might have to pick up that Aristeia "Soldiers of Fortune" box now - very clever CB!

You're better off waiting for the generic release, assuming you don't want the cosplayer look.