Thanks for the help on my list. I went 3-0 at my RTT yesterday and picked up 45 out of 60 battle points, good enough for a second place finish (3 battle points behind first). If there's interest, I can do some quick summaries of the games.
PanzerLeader wrote: Thanks for the help on my list. I went 3-0 at my RTT yesterday and picked up 45 out of 60 battle points, good enough for a second place finish (3 battle points behind first). If there's interest, I can do some quick summaries of the games.
PanzerLeader wrote: Thanks for the help on my list. I went 3-0 at my RTT yesterday and picked up 45 out of 60 battle points, good enough for a second place finish (3 battle points behind first). If there's interest, I can do some quick summaries of the games.
PanzerLeader wrote: Thanks for the help on my list. I went 3-0 at my RTT yesterday and picked up 45 out of 60 battle points, good enough for a second place finish (3 battle points behind first). If there's interest, I can do some quick summaries of the games.
If you could take a few minutes (or more like 3H...) to type up a relatively detailed summary of those battles, it would be greatly appreciated
PanzerLeader wrote: Thanks for the help on my list. I went 3-0 at my RTT yesterday and picked up 45 out of 60 battle points, good enough for a second place finish (3 battle points behind first). If there's interest, I can do some quick summaries of the games.
This is from memory, so I reproduced it the best I could. I'll summarize my major learning points in a later post. All missions were ETC style, so you played an Eternal War + a Maelstorm + Kill Point Difference. The normal three bonus points also applied. Hope this helps.
Game 1 vs Nathan’s drop pod Salamanders and allied AM
Opponents List
Bike chapter master
Terminator Librarian
Techmarine
Command Squad, 5x meltagun, drop pod
Tac Squad, melta, combi melta, drop pod
Bike squad, 2x melta
Assault squad, 2x flamer, drop pod
Assault squad, 2x flamer, drop pod
Devastators with 3x lascannon
Company Command Squad, Master of Ordnance, Lascannon
2x Psykers
2x Priests
20 Conscripts
20 man blob with 2 autocannons
Triple lascannon team
Platoon command squad with 4x snipers
Wyvern
Mission was Crusade + Cleanse & Control + Kill Point Differential and deployment was vanguard strike. Crusade objectives were roughly one in each table quarter and they also counted as Maelstorm 1-4. Maelstorm 5 & 6 were towards the center of the board. Nathan won the roll and choose to deploy first. He deployed fairly central, able to threaten two crusade objectives with his 20 man squads while his lascannon squads and CCS. I deployed bubbled up in a corner sitting on one crusade objective with the wyverns and looking to take the other two with dominion squads and BSS squads later in the game.
Nathan opened by trying to drop his command squad into a very tight corner in my lines behind my Wyverns and in between my chimera and a BSS rhino. They promptly scattered off the board and Nathan rolled a 1, giving me the easiest First Blood point of the day. The tac squad then conducted a much safer landing in front of the Wyverns, able to get within 6” but I’d still get 4+ cover from the ruin. He shuffled some units around and advanced with both blobs. His shooting killed 1 of my Wyverns and knocked the turret off one of my exorcists.
The game went back and forth from there. My Veterans and BBS squads would clean up the drop pods and marines as they landed and eventually Celestine was able to kill off the blob on my right flank (lined up the charge so I’d hit the priest first, killed him and swept the blob when they broke) and then tie up the tech marines blob, letting me slip around the side of them with an exorcist to take three of the four crusade objectives.
Game ended with me up winning Crusade 9-3, losing Maelstorm 6-8 and getting 2 points from the KP differential. I also had First Blood and Linebreaker and Nathan had Linebreaker. Final score was 19-12, giving me 14 battle points under the ETC format.
Game 2 vs Ian’s Tyrant Legion (Astral Claw themed White Scars and allied AM)
Opponents List
Bike Chapter Master
Khan
Max size bike squad with 2x grav, MM attack bike, combi grav (he combat squaded, putting all the specials on the board with the chaptermaster and outflanking all the normal bikes with Khan).
2x10 tactical marines in Rhinos, both with lascannons, one melta gun, one plasma gun
Fire Raptor
Company Command Squad with lascannon and master of ordnance
Platoon Command Squad with 4x snipers
Blob squad with 2x lascannons
Psyker
2x Wyverns
Mission was Scouring (modified to two 3’s, two 2’s, and two 1’s) + Deadlock (the one where you start with 6 active objectives and the number decreases by one each turn) + Kill Point differential. Deployment was Vanguard Strike again. I won the roll to go first and deployed centrally, with decent field of fires around the central ruin and in a balanced line, with an exorcist in the center and on each flank supported by dominions in the center. Wyverns were on the left to range his objectives. I won the roll to scout first and scouted my dominions aggressively into the center ruin, essentially trapping Ian’s scouts in his own deployment zone. With everything set for a first turn ambush, Ian seized on me. D’oh!
Turn one, Ian immobilized one Dominion immolator and knocked at least one wyvern out and shook a couple exorcists. My dominions sacrificed themselves to take out the bikes with the chapter master (ignore cover for the win) but I got little else done.
The game went back and forth, with Celestine putting pressure on his backfield and my battle sister squads and veterans holding my backfield against the bikes and one of the tactical squads. I ended up giving up the central objective (worth 1 point) to Ian because I was running out of units.
At the end of the game, my Veterans held a two pointer in my deployment zone and one BSS held a three pointer while the remnants of my second ten girl BSS squad contested a one pointer against a marine tactical squad. Even though Celestine died at the top of the final turn, she put ensure pressure into his backfield that I was able to sneak an OBSEC Rhino through unmolested and Ian had to use his 20 man OBSEC blob to contest his 3 pointer and thus leave his 2 pointer unclaimed.
Final score was 5-5 on Scouring (I held a 3 point and a 2 point, Ian held a 1 point and had killed 4 FA choices), I won Maelstorm 11-8, Ian had 2 VPs for the Kill Point difference and I had Linebreaker and Warlord and Ian had First Blood. Final score was Sisters 18, Marines 16, giving me 11 battle points to Ian’s 9.
Mission was Relic (worth 6 VP for holding) + Spoils of War + Kill Point Differential. Deployment was Dawn of War. I won the roll to deploy first and set up with two exorcists on the right and one on the far left, covering two maelstorm objectives and able to shoot around the LOS blocking piece in the center. My dominions and Celestine went into the center, supported by one of the BSS squads and the veterans. The other BSS squad went into reserves. The Wyverns went back center to sit on a third maelstorm objective.
Justin deployed centrally around a ruin in his deployment zone. Everything was clustered around the malanthrope, except the Tyrannocite with carnifex and muclids who went into reserve. I scouted the dominions up behind the LOS blocking ruin in the middle. Justin did not seize. This time, the Sister ambush worked. The dominions moved up and had easy range to his warlord flyrant. Celestine moved center, staying out of LOS but blocking the relic. The BSS squad moved up behind her. The dominions passed their acts of faith and killed the flyrant, netting First Blood and Warlord for me. Their immolators then moved flatout to screen them from the bulk of Justin’s shooting. The Wyverns put one wound on the malanthrope and the rest of my shooting predictably bounced off the mass 2+ cover.
Justin was able to wreck both immolators in response and kill off 8 of the 10 dominions with a good psychic scream. He sent his remaining flyrant and crone out towards my right flank. One my turn, Celestine came out over the center ruined and assaulted the hive guard, killing 2. The Wyverns put a wound on the zoanthropes and with Justin’s army still clustered tightly around the malanthrope, the exorcists shot at the FMCs and put a wound on the flyrant.
Justin charged Celestine with the tyrannofex, but not before she killed the last hive guard. Celestine would pass act of faith. The Flyrant wrecked a Rhino. His Tyrannocite scattered off the board and rolled a “1” on the mishap table. More importantly, Justin broke up his castle by pressing the exocrine to my right and his tervigon to my left to go after some maelstorm objectives.
Turn three was the decisive swing. Celestine charged the malanthrope, locking him in the backfield. The command squad and one exorcist combined to kill the exocrine and the other two exorcists took 5 of 6 wounds off the Tyrannofex in the open. The hive crone had to glide to reposition for a turn four run against the Vendetta and would be killed by massed exorcists the next turn. I was also able to get a BSS squad on to the relic hidden by the LOS blocking terrain and their Rhino. They would reembark next turn and slowly move away from the nid lines thanks to normal movement and vehicle flat out moves. By the end of turn 4, Justin was down to the wounded Flyrant and a spawned out tervigon.
I won the Relic (6-0), won Maelstorm15-6, won KP difference by 6 and had all three bonus while Justin only claimed Warlord. Final score was 30-7, giving me 20 battle points.
1) I was pleasantly surprised by how resilient the 10 girl BSS squads were. Its just a lot of bodies for most armies to shift, especially since the mobility they get from the Rhino usually lets me get them into a more even match up (i.e. another troop choice or a weaker squad rather than something that will just mop the floor with them). I'm going to stick with the 10 girl squads for now, as I think I'd rather have more bodies on the right objective than the additional OBSEC unit or two.
2) I'm not sure the mix of 3 exorcists and 2 wyverns is enough long range support. Given how short ranged the dominions and BSS squads are and that I've really only got one mid-range squad (the veterans), I think I need to squeeze in one more long range shooting unit. I could swap out the 4 melta guns on the CCS for a master of ordnance and a lascannon. That would give me a long range unit with a barrage template and the ability to gain ignore cover. That swap is points neutral, but I don't like having just one exposed infantry unit on the board. Ideally, I'd like to scrape together the points to put them in a Chimera. I probably have enough fluff in wargear to do it so I'll just have to play around with it.
3) I really, really liked having the random BSS sister as my warlord. First, it let me get a better trait from the book than Celestine's fixed one. I rolled on tactical once and got the ability to discard an extra tactical objective every turn (very useful for cycling through the deck to get more achievable ones) and the other two games went strategic and got +1 to seize, reroll reserves both times. Second, it made denying slay the warlord relatively easy. She only died in one game and her squad went virtually untargeted in most games. I also kept her squad in reserves twice, once with a deliberate plan to roll on to a crusade objective in my backfield anyway and once to counter the outflanking Khan and secure my backfield scouring objective. She only died in my game against the Nids and that was mostly because I had a turn of extraordinarily poor armor saves (failed 7 out 12 saves and she was sixth in line). Third, she let me play Celestine super-aggressively which leads to...
4) Super-aggressively playing Celestine makes for a helluva disruption unit. I was really pleased with her, even though her damage was under whelming in game two (died to a plasma gun in overwatch and then after resurrecting only managed to take down the opposing CCS before dieing the death of 10,000 flash lights). I used her as a bully unit, threatening units without ID threats to her and, over the course of 3 games, she killed a 20 man blob, a 5 man assault squad, a handful of tac marines, a CCS, ~15 termagaunts, 3 hive guard, a malanthrope and took 4 of 6 wounds off a Tervigon. The terrain made her relatively easy to hide and at least 2 opponents were very sad faced when I reminded them that the cool looking, killy model they had just invested a ton of time beating down was not the warlord.
Hope that helps some guys. I'll be taking my current list or a slight variation of it to Templecon in about a week and half. If anyone else is going, let me know and we can talk Sisters over a proper drink.
PanzerLeader wrote: So here are my lessons learned from this weekend:
2) I'm not sure the mix of 3 exorcists and 2 wyverns is enough long range support. Given how short ranged the dominions and BSS squads are and that I've really only got one mid-range squad (the veterans), I think I need to squeeze in one more long range shooting unit. I could swap out the 4 melta guns on the CCS for a master of ordnance and a lascannon. That would give me a long range unit with a barrage template and the ability to gain ignore cover. That swap is points neutral, but I don't like having just one exposed infantry unit on the board. Ideally, I'd like to scrape together the points to put them in a Chimera. I probably have enough fluff in wargear to do it so I'll just have to play around with it.
Remember that they can't give orders while embarked.
PanzerLeader wrote: So here are my lessons learned from this weekend:
2) I'm not sure the mix of 3 exorcists and 2 wyverns is enough long range support. Given how short ranged the dominions and BSS squads are and that I've really only got one mid-range squad (the veterans), I think I need to squeeze in one more long range shooting unit. I could swap out the 4 melta guns on the CCS for a master of ordnance and a lascannon. That would give me a long range unit with a barrage template and the ability to gain ignore cover. That swap is points neutral, but I don't like having just one exposed infantry unit on the board. Ideally, I'd like to scrape together the points to put them in a Chimera. I probably have enough fluff in wargear to do it so I'll just have to play around with it.
Remember that they can't give orders while embarked.
They can if they're in a Chimera - it has the Mobile Command Vehicle special rule. You actually get slightly better range on your orders too, since you measure range from the hull of the Chimera.
@ Mavnas: goonbandito nailed it. The Chimera lets the CCS still issue orders while protecting them from S5 and below shooting. Also makes it a little easier to synchronize the CCS and the veterans.
Awesome battle report and lessons-learned. I've always thought the MSU/Immospam craze left armies with excessively brittle 6-girl squads....
Also, poor Tyranid player! I'd love to understand better why things fell apart so horribly on Turn 3 for the big ugly bugs. Sounds like Exorcists vs. Monsters went very well. I also get the impression that their "castle up around the Malanthrope" formation screwed them with getting Maelstrom objectives (which requires mobility & flexibility), yet they broke formation and lost concentration of force before they had either secured the Relic or broken your army, denying them the Eternal War and Kill Point VPs. Am I diagnosing this more or less right?
SisterSydney wrote: Awesome battle report and lessons-learned. I've always thought the MSU/Immospam craze left armies with excessively brittle 6-girl squads....
Yeah, but I've found that many opponents love to pour many points into squads that would murder 6 or 10 sister squads equally well. Having more squads limits the killing power of deathstars and silly things like 10 sanguinary guard squads. You'd be surprised how long a frail squad will survive if there's just too many of them for the enemy to deal with. My last game against BA, my 3 plasma gun acolyte squads lasted into turn 4 and 5 because the opponent was too busy trying to deal with my dominions/2 melta BSS (Either that or he was hoping those squads would kill themselves.)
Heck my forward most rhino was ignored once the dominions popped out of it and blew up one of his vindicators turn one. I ended up driving it deep into his area to hold an objective and get Linebreaker. You'd never expect that from an AV11 vehicle, but you really should expect that from 8 of them. (That being that by the time the enemy pops about half of them he has more important targets and never gets around to dealing with all of them.)
SisterSydney wrote: Awesome battle report and lessons-learned. I've always thought the MSU/Immospam craze left armies with excessively brittle 6-girl squads....
Yeah, but I've found that many opponents love to pour many points into squads that would murder 6 or 10 sister squads equally well. Having more squads limits the killing power of deathstars and silly things like 10 sanguinary guard squads. You'd be surprised how long a frail squad will survive if there's just too many of them for the enemy to deal with. My last game against BA, my 3 plasma gun acolyte squads lasted into turn 4 and 5 because the opponent was too busy trying to deal with my dominions/2 melta BSS (Either that or he was hoping those squads would kill themselves.)
Heck my forward most rhino was ignored once the dominions popped out of it and blew up one of his vindicators turn one. I ended up driving it deep into his area to hold an objective and get Linebreaker. You'd never expect that from an AV11 vehicle, but you really should expect that from 8 of them. (That being that by the time the enemy pops about half of them he has more important targets and never gets around to dealing with all of them.)
I've had very similar experiences with driving empty Rhinos up the back field.... Or Weapons destroyed immolators for that matter...
They work exceedingly well at capturing, as you say, but also tank shocking/ramming backfield Units. The best example being 3 Obliterators failing their morale test and running off-board on Turn 4 or 5.
SisterSydney wrote: Awesome battle report and lessons-learned. I've always thought the MSU/Immospam craze left armies with excessively brittle 6-girl squads....
Also, poor Tyranid player! I'd love to understand better why things fell apart so horribly on Turn 3 for the big ugly bugs. Sounds like Exorcists vs. Monsters went very well. I also get the impression that their "castle up around the Malanthrope" formation screwed them with getting Maelstrom objectives (which requires mobility & flexibility), yet they broke formation and lost concentration of force before they had either secured the Relic or broken your army, denying them the Eternal War and Kill Point VPs. Am I diagnosing this more or less right?
Also also, the ETC scoring system is CONFUSING.
You've got it. I had a large Maelstorm lead at that point and I think the bug player felt pressured to do something to catch up. So he broke out of his ruins cover on about a 270 degree arc, with the tyrannofex and the tervigon on the far right and the exocrine on the far left with the malanthrope center. He didn't manage to suppress the vendetta or the exorcists that turn though. It left the exocrine exposed to the vendetta + CCS and one exorcist and the tyrannofex out of cover facing down two 2 exorcists. He was also never able to pressure the BSS squad that grabbed the relic. I think if he had conceded maelstorm to me and focused on pushing up the middle as a large group he could probably have grabbed the relic. The terrain in the center would have blocked a decent amount of my fire power. I think he was loathe to do this because he would have basically sacrificed all his shooting for a couple of turns as LOS would be mutually blocked.
SisterSydney wrote: Awesome battle report and lessons-learned. I've always thought the MSU/Immospam craze left armies with excessively brittle 6-girl squads....
Yeah, but I've found that many opponents love to pour many points into squads that would murder 6 or 10 sister squads equally well. Having more squads limits the killing power of deathstars and silly things like 10 sanguinary guard squads. You'd be surprised how long a frail squad will survive if there's just too many of them for the enemy to deal with. My last game against BA, my 3 plasma gun acolyte squads lasted into turn 4 and 5 because the opponent was too busy trying to deal with my dominions/2 melta BSS (Either that or he was hoping those squads would kill themselves.)
Heck my forward most rhino was ignored once the dominions popped out of it and blew up one of his vindicators turn one. I ended up driving it deep into his area to hold an objective and get Linebreaker. You'd never expect that from an AV11 vehicle, but you really should expect that from 8 of them. (That being that by the time the enemy pops about half of them he has more important targets and never gets around to dealing with all of them.)
I've had very similar experiences with driving empty Rhinos up the back field.... Or Weapons destroyed immolators for that matter...
They work exceedingly well at capturing, as you say, but also tank shocking/ramming backfield Units. The best example being 3 Obliterators failing their morale test and running off-board on Turn 4 or 5.
Hell, with my Space Wolves, my secret weapon versus Tau is my Rhinos. In one game, I ran 500pts worth of Tau off the board with one Rhino.
Had a question about running Sisters in higher point games.
My basic setup is....
Saint Celestine
5x battle sister + transport
5x batlle sister + transport
5x battle sister + transport
6x Seraphim
5x Dom + transport
5x Dom + transport
3x Exorcist Launcher
which usually comes up close to 1500 points after adding special weapons and choice of transport (immo or Repressor).
My question is as you go up to 2000 or possibly larger, what do you add? The general census from reading seems to be that most of the other choices in the codex are pretty lackluster. I current run a Imperial knight which brings me to about 1850 but what does everybody else do at that point? Do i make my sister squads bigger for some additional staying power or is looking at allying in another force the better option?
Thanks in Advance, oh and I am totally in for the SoB Support Day in March!
Fixed2bbroken wrote: Had a question about running Sisters in higher point games.
My basic setup is....
Saint Celestine
5x battle sister + transport
5x batlle sister + transport
5x battle sister + transport
6x Seraphim
5x Dom + transport
5x Dom + transport
3x Exorcist Launcher
which usually comes up close to 1500 points after adding special weapons and choice of transport (immo or Repressor).
My question is as you go up to 2000 or possibly larger, what do you add? The general census from reading seems to be that most of the other choices in the codex are pretty lackluster. I current run a Imperial knight which brings me to about 1850 but what does everybody else do at that point? Do i make my sister squads bigger for some additional staying power or is looking at allying in another force the better option?
Thanks in Advance, oh and I am totally in for the SoB Support Day in March!
Take another CAD and get more Exorcists and Dominions :>
Imperial Guard make great Allies because they have something to cover almost any gap. Need cheap bodies to clog the board? Blob up some Infantry Squads/Conscripts. Looking for some Plasma to roll alongside your mechanised Sisters? Veteran Squads with 3 Plasma Guns in Chimeras are your answer. Need long range Anti-Tank? Lascannons everywhere. Need a flyer? Vendetta's are still pretty sweet despite their nerf (or more properly, their re-balancing). Want some heavy armour? Get those Leman Russ models out.
Codex: Inquisition also has some neat little tricks, with dirt cheap options for special and heavy weapons, Land Raiders, old school Chimeras (the ones where 5 models can fire out of the top hatch), some decent Psychic support and can make better use of those Death Cult Assassin and Crusader models than Codex: Adepta Sororitas.
Fixed2bbroken wrote: Had a question about running Sisters in higher point games.
My basic setup is....
Saint Celestine
5x battle sister + transport
5x batlle sister + transport
5x battle sister + transport
6x Seraphim
5x Dom + transport
5x Dom + transport
3x Exorcist Launcher
which usually comes up close to 1500 points after adding special weapons and choice of transport (immo or Repressor).
My question is as you go up to 2000 or possibly larger, what do you add? The general census from reading seems to be that most of the other choices in the codex are pretty lackluster. I current run a Imperial knight which brings me to about 1850 but what does everybody else do at that point? Do i make my sister squads bigger for some additional staying power or is looking at allying in another force the better option?
Thanks in Advance, oh and I am totally in for the SoB Support Day in March!
As GoonBandito says: you can go for more allies: a Second Sister CAD or pick from Inquisition/Guard.
If you want to stick with Sisters:
Celestine+Seraphim get nuked in ~2000pts (IMHO), so you could change up some stuff there.
Jacobus + Many Priests + 20x battle sister is a very nice replacement. And they even work very well with Celestine at the front. (That's already a pile of points added)
Also, look at getting a cheap Canoness (pretty much vanilla) + Command Squad with 5 Heavy Bolters + Buy a Bastion with Icarus Las or Quad Gun.
Canoness can hit on 2s with the Gun emplacement or use one of the emplaced Heavy bolters while you shoot another 5 HB. This works quite well if you can drop an exorcist and take Retributors, too. Because you can then get a rending Quad Gun. Think of a Void shield for the Bastion then, too.
Also, as you are MSU, taking Jacobus+20-girl Squad means another Dominion Squad and you can also take another two 5x battle sister + transport if needed.
A lot of these will push you past 2000pts so you need to think around getting it lower
Yeah, I wouldn't bother with Seraphim at 2k. Agreed.
Second cad could be nasty. Also, a Fort with Skyfire, might be useful as well.
I usually ally in, but second cad is probably nastier.
As for priests? Not for me unless you're taking a blob squad or something else smashy. Otherwise, keep your BSS small.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Something like: Celestine BSS (5) with M/HF in Transport BSS (5) with M/HF in Transport Doms (5) with 4 Melta in Transport Doms (5) with 4 Melta in Transport Doms (5) with 4 Melta in Transport Exorcist Exorcist Exorcist
Uriah BSS 5 with M/HF in Transport BSS 5 with M/HF in Transport Rets with 4 HB and Simulacrum Firestorm Redoubt with Magos
Curious: Why no Seraphim in higher-points games? Is it that there's so much stuff in the enemy's backfield at 2,000 points that it'd be suicide to Deep Strike in there? Or that there's so much long-range anti-personnel fire that infantry without an armored transport are toast? Or something else?
That's a gorgeous model and the paint job is very crisp and clean, white is hard to make look nice imo but you nailed it. The scheme also brings home a bit of Canadian pride I had to check if you weren't a Canadian yourself lol. Looks great, I'd love to see a flyer like that across the table from me anyday.
Nice model. But when you said "ready for Vegas," the first image in my head was a blinged-out Avenger with flashing neon lights and possibly a sign advertising slots and all-you-can -eat buffet....
SisterSydney wrote: Nice model. But when you said "ready for Vegas," the first image in my head was a blinged-out Avenger with flashing neon lights and possibly a sign advertising slots and all-you-can -eat buffet....
I was in my LGS picking up the new Harlequin WD and saw they had direct ordered a Culexus Assassin. That's he only one I don't own and I love how well it fits in with a sisters force so I grabbed it.
Oh your Revenant Titan has invisibility cast on it? Well my Culexus just got within 12" so no more invisibility for you. Followed by melta to the face!
SisterSydney wrote: Curious: Why no Seraphim in higher-points games? Is it that there's so much stuff in the enemy's backfield at 2,000 points that it'd be suicide to Deep Strike in there? Or that there's so much long-range anti-personnel fire that infantry without an armored transport are toast? Or something else?
I've seen the first reason most of the time. Back in 6th when the reserves roll got better, arriving Turn 3 or 4 was okay.
Nowdays, Seraphim arriving on Turn 2 either have to hide in your field (pointless) or survive any interceptors and would only dream of a second Turn on the field
Automatically Appended Next Post:
SisterSydney wrote: Nice model. But when you said "ready for Vegas," the first image in my head was a blinged-out Avenger with flashing neon lights and possibly a sign advertising slots and all-you-can -eat buffet....
I also thought this.
But then i saw the nice model. I like the FW model so much... Had any trouble with the resin? Mine was a little curved in on the body...
You know, if they do come out with plastic sisters that would be a cool project for a second army. Hum, I'll have to keep that in mind for a project, even if just a small one.
Mavnas wrote: It is my understanding that she was the only Sister ever corrupted so a chaos AS army wouldn't really be terribly big.
Although, you know that Mark of Tzeench if added to an existing 6++ gets pretty tempting.
She also only ever appears on that card and in a book about that card game. >> Gods, but I Hate that company for giving the Sisters-haters that particular piece of ammunition. Especially those stuck-up Grey Knights who not only insist that she's proof that Sisters are falling left right and centre, but ignore Alaric.
sigh. Sometimes I wish I didn't love my Sisters so much. The general level of bile levelled at the army is really bad for my cholesterol.
That said, the Sisters models do look good converted, and no, I'm not a hypocrite - my conversions are for a Chaos Cult with stolen armour.
I am surprised how well the Penitent Engines have fared so far... With the Bastion forward and MSU immos. Having the PE at 6" coherency in the middle has drawn very little attention and usually allows for a Turn 2-3 Charge at full strength (Glancing hit or 2)
I figured i'd start posting army pics in the gallery. Recent project was to fix up an Avenger Strike Fighter. I think this one turned out all right, but I have a second one on my table that I put a lot more time cleaning up. The cast on these.... well, they need a lot of repair.
Still need to work on the pilot, seats and the heavy stubber. I'll get there eventually.
Anyone know a good way of keeping the windows on without gluing it on? Still working on that bit.
Automatically Appended Next Post: lol, i'll try to get a better pic up sometime that doesn't have my airbrush station (read: Diaper box) in the background
Mavnas wrote: It is my understanding that she was the only Sister ever corrupted so a chaos AS army wouldn't really be terribly big.
Although, you know that Mark of Tzeench if added to an existing 6++ gets pretty tempting.
The problem with Chaos Sisters is that I see too many Slaanesh Sisters. It's low-hanging fruit: "Hurr durr, let's make Sisters all sexualized and perverted." What would be more interesting and a deeper fall into ruin would be Tzeentch Sisters as you mentioned. Sorceror Sisters are far more appealing to me than lowest-common-denominator Sex Sisters. Witchhunters turned witches.
war wrote: I figured i'd start posting army pics in the gallery. Recent project was to fix up an Avenger Strike Fighter. I think this one turned out all right, but I have a second one on my table that I put a lot more time cleaning up. The cast on these.... well, they need a lot of repair.
Still need to work on the pilot, seats and the heavy stubber. I'll get there eventually.
Anyone know a good way of keeping the windows on without gluing it on? Still working on that bit.
Automatically Appended Next Post: lol, i'll try to get a better pic up sometime that doesn't have my airbrush station (read: Diaper box) in the background
Mine is central on its base, and it tends to tumble forwards.
The picture makes it look so much more fall-prone, or did you weigh it?
Plus, do not forget to mould/use Immolator turret Sisters as pilots
Mavnas wrote: It is my understanding that she was the only Sister ever corrupted so a chaos AS army wouldn't really be terribly big.
Although, you know that Mark of Tzeench if added to an existing 6++ gets pretty tempting.
The problem with Chaos Sisters is that I see too many Slaanesh Sisters. It's low-hanging fruit: "Hurr durr, let's make Sisters all sexualized and perverted." What would be more interesting and a deeper fall into ruin would be Tzeentch Sisters as you mentioned. Sorceror Sisters are far more appealing to me than lowest-common-denominator Sex Sisters. Witchhunters turned witches.
Good point, I like. But part of me wants to do/see sisters as a 80's metal band noise marines. Big hair, leather, spikes, maybe some cultist with 'staff' on their shirts.
BlackTalos wrote: So, i've been playing with a new list recently (not my list, but performs really well, and i'm just happy to play):
HQ choice
Cannoness - Storm Bolter
Celestian Command squad. Dialogus, 4HB
Immolator transport TLMM
Aha, here's your secret. The other player must be too busy trying to erase this model from the table in a soul-sucking-void-induced panic to pay attention to your Penitent Engines.
(But more seriously, what does she do for your army? Without a Relic, isn't she just a BS3 bolt pistol?)
It would be funny if she had some sort of scream attack.
Either way, I finished up Volume 6 of the Saga of Sister Kathryn. I even tested out that Flesh Tearers drop pod idea that you guys had.
A 1500 point game sees the the Order of the Desert Rose making an emergency drop to secure the royal palace and the governess from the first tendrils of an approaching Hive fleet.
One of the main characters makes her final stand....
Aha, here's your secret. The other player must be too busy trying to erase this model from the table in a soul-sucking-void-induced panic to pay attention to your Penitent Engines.
(But more seriously, what does she do for your army? Without a Relic, isn't she just a BS3 bolt pistol?)
Hey, don't sell her short - she's BS4 and has a Laud Hailer!
Either way, I finished up Volume 6 of the Saga of Sister Kathryn. I even tested out that Flesh Tearers drop pod idea that you guys had.
A 1500 point game sees the the Order of the Desert Rose making an emergency drop to secure the royal palace and the governess from the first tendrils of an approaching Hive fleet.
One of the main characters makes her final stand....
Spoiler:
I subscribed to your channel, CS. I enjoy the narrative monologues. This episode was a bit disappointing, tho. Unpainted terrain and models just aren't a whole lot of fun to watch :( I know you mentioned that you stripped your Sisters, so I'm looking forward to the new paint scheme.
I'm slowly getting them painted purple. I recorded two at a teim so the next one will be pretty much the same. After that though I should have a squad or three painted.
BlackTalos wrote: So, i've been playing with a new list recently (not my list, but performs really well, and i'm just happy to play):
HQ choice
Cannoness - Storm Bolter
Celestian Command squad. Dialogus, 4HB
Immolator transport TLMM
Aha, here's your secret. The other player must be too busy trying to erase this model from the table in a soul-sucking-void-induced panic to pay attention to your Penitent Engines.
(But more seriously, what does she do for your army? Without a Relic, isn't she just a BS3 bolt pistol?)
Yeah, although you can't see her inside the bastion so scare tactics fail a bit.
More seriously though: Provides Laud Hailer for Retributors on the roof, who Act of Faith twice, usually early on when you really want that Flyer to go down with Rending Quad Gun, or 12HB shot+Snap Shooting Quad needs to rip apart that big 10-20 MEQ Unit causing trouble nearby...
Also acts as a Laud hailer Bastion, if any other MSU are nearby - Don't forget the Bastion is creating a 12" Bubble from the walls.
She's basically 15pts to get a Laud Hailer for the bastion. Oh and she can fire the emplaced HB at her BS 4, so she's also "equipped" with a Heavy Bolter
Tough break on opponents Celtic, you're right with the comment "probably not the best list to try out the drop pod list". Still, interesting how it went.
BTW. Thanks for putting the work into those, i've been enjoying watching the exploits of Sister Kathryn. She shall be remembered long after she is martyred.
I mean sure, she has to run from side to side with the hailer and reach at the controls every time... but she's used to that from all the Administorum Work
Automatically Appended Next Post:
SisterSydney wrote: SISTER SUPERIOR: Target left! SISTER KORIANDER: Oops! SISTER RAVEN: Gak! [they throw themselves to the other side of the Bastion and fire] SUPERIOR: Target right! KORIANDER: We were just.... RAVEN: Hurry! [they throw themselves back] SUPERIOR: Target widdershins! KORIANDER: Wha -- ? RAVEN: Okay, now you're just fething with us. SUPERIOR: I beg your pardon? RAVEN: Ma'am, now you're just fething with us, ma'am! SUPERIOR: Much better. Yes, yes I am.
war wrote: Tough break on opponents Celtic, you're right with the comment "probably not the best list to try out the drop pod list". Still, interesting how it went.
BTW. Thanks for putting the work into those, i've been enjoying watching the exploits of Sister Kathryn. She shall be remembered long after she is martyred.
You really don't need the quote marks. "Man" when used to mean "operate" or "crew" is derived from the same root as 'manufacture' and 'manhandle' - it comes from 'manus', the Latin word for 'hand'. Nothing to do with masculinity.
I really wish more radical feminists would realise this.
You really don't need the quote marks. "Man" when used to mean "operate" or "crew" is derived from the same root as 'manufacture' and 'manhandle' - it comes from 'manus', the Latin word for 'hand'. Nothing to do with masculinity.
I really wish more radical feminists would realise this.
It was .... meant as a joke. You know.... cause she's not a man..... (whichever origin the Word has) it just says "man"
You really don't need the quote marks. "Man" when used to mean "operate" or "crew" is derived from the same root as 'manufacture' and 'manhandle' - it comes from 'manus', the Latin word for 'hand'. Nothing to do with masculinity.
I really wish more radical feminists would realise this.
It was .... meant as a joke. You know.... cause she's not a man..... (whichever origin the Word has) it just says "man"
Bad Joke?
If you're one of those people who considers a simple pun to be a joke... then yes?
Hey all, I'm getting back into 40k after taking a break for nearly the entirety of sixth edition. I'm reading through the 7th ed rules and familiarizing myself with all of our new battle-brother options and being able to embark in allied transports seems amazing.
What options do we have these days for assault transports? Are Storm Ravens and Land Raiders from our power-armored brethren the only options?
Are there any other ways to slap 3-5 priests in a squad and get them into combat reliably?
The inquisition codex is probably the most points efficient way of getting a land raider into the list. 25 point inquisitor, then a land raider. Good for repentia only for the most part. Or battle conclave
Celtic Strike wrote: The inquisition codex is probably the most points efficient way of getting a land raider into the list. 25 point inquisitor, then a land raider. Good for repentia only for the most part. Or battle conclave
Quibble: Inquisitors can't take dedicated transports; only henchmen can. That's another 12 points.
INQUISITOR: Okay, you there just -- uh -- just stay here.
HENCHMAN #1: Okay, boss! We're ready to fight for the Imperium, boss! We -- boss?
HENCHMAN #2: He just drove off in the Land Raider.
HENCHMAN #3 (sniffling): Huh-huh-he didn't even wave!
HENCHMAN #1: I don't understand. Why would he just leave us here by the objective marker?
HENCHMAN #2: Goddammit, he just took a minimum-strength squad to get the Land Raider, didn't he?
HENCHMAN #3 (bawling): I'm not even p-p-p-primed!
SisterSydney wrote: INQUISITOR: Okay, you there just -- uh -- just stay here.
HENCHMAN #1: Okay, boss! We're ready to fight for the Imperium, boss! We -- boss?
HENCHMAN #2: He just drove off in the Land Raider.
HENCHMAN #3 (sniffling): Huh-huh-he didn't even wave!
HENCHMAN #1: I don't understand. Why would he just leave us here by the objective marker?
HENCHMAN #2: Goddammit, he just took a minimum-strength squad to get the Land Raider, didn't he?
HENCHMAN #3 (bawling): I'm not even p-p-p-primed!
lol
If you're looking for a Minimum Sized Henchman Warband that might actually be able to do something, for 20 points you can get a Psyker and two Acolytes with Boltguns (well you could stick with the Laspistol/Chainsword loadout on the Acolytes and save 2 points, but then the unit would cost 18points and that just annoys me...). The Psyker can roll up a Psychic Power as well as adding a Warp Charge to your pool and you might get something awesome on Divination or Telepathy. If your opponent shoots at the unit, then big deal - they've 'wasted' a unit's shooting on a 20point unit. Then you can jack their Land Raider dedicated transport and leave the Psyker and his 2 bodyguards behind.
Fast Attack Dominion Squad with 4x Meltagun, Vet, Combi-melta riding an Immo w/MM Dozer & Laud Hailer
Dominion Squad with 4x Meltagun, Vet, Combi-melta riding an Immo w/MM Dozer & Laud Hailer
Elites Henchman Warband – 5 Crusaders, Psyker
Heavy Support Exorcist
Exorcist
Avenger Strike Fighter
Landraider Crusader w/Dozer blade, Psybolt ammo, Multimelta
Pretty straightforward: Priests and Inquisitor jump into the LR with the 5 crusaders and the psyker. I'm thinking I will roll on the Sanctity table for my two psykers, aiming for Sanctuary (2++ crusaders seem good, especially rerolling in combat ) or hammerhand. Worst case I just don't cast any powers and don't run the risk of perils. The Liber Heresius lets me scout the LR forward with the dominions, while Celestine jumps up behind the LR for some cover. Turn two priest-bomb jumps out of the LR and starts murderizing whatever is in range. 7th does not seem too different in theory, but I would love any feedback, especially on psychic power selection.
SisterSydney wrote: INQUISITOR: Okay, you there just -- uh -- just stay here.
HENCHMAN #1: Okay, boss! We're ready to fight for the Imperium, boss! We -- boss?
HENCHMAN #2: He just drove off in the Land Raider.
HENCHMAN #3 (sniffling): Huh-huh-he didn't even wave!
HENCHMAN #1: I don't understand. Why would he just leave us here by the objective marker?
HENCHMAN #2: Goddammit, he just took a minimum-strength squad to get the Land Raider, didn't he?
HENCHMAN #3 (bawling): I'm not even p-p-p-primed!
What I have learned from all my Sisters test games as of late (alone, or as allies to any of the armies which they nicely fill gaps for), is that you want to invest the bare minimum on Dominion squads.
Don't trick out their Rhino, if its an Immolator either go just Multi-Melta or down-grade to a Rhino, and don't invest in any other tech, or tricking out the Sister Superior.
Melta Doms feels like a suicide unit in almost every case. You use them in a trade, taking out a particularly threatening piece of armor, and probably earning back their points.
They end up being such a tasty target, and are likely so far up field if you scout-moved them, and didn't outflank, that they will die. Might as well save some points.
I tried running them with the Simulacrum Imperialis(?) upgrade, as my local meta has a LOT of jink abuse shenanigans, and I have been using them against lists without better targets, to use their AoF and blunt these units. In only one out of four games did they live to a second chance to use said AoF. :-p
Smart. No Forgeworld allowed at local tournaments, means that is an option i'm not even able to entertain, unfortunately.
Automatically Appended Next Post: So here's a question...
What do people think about Melta Doms using Drop-Pods when allies allow it?
Is the finesse of being more likely able to hit side/rear armor worth the fact that they're now completely out in the open, and even less likely to survive versus MAYBE enduring an enemy turn, and still having a ride they might be able to pop back into?
Obviously pods are the cheapest Dominion delivery system, and I guess by my own logic, I expect them to die anyway so....?
I generally expect my dom's to all die very quickly, is a bonus when they get a second round of shooting. Their power comes from quick removal of transports and long range dangerous stuff. Once you opponent has to walk across the field, you can pick them off at your leisure.
Thats always been my theory of them. Make their points back... eh, who cares! They give you the game instead.
So keep them cheap, and droppods are wonderful for them (long answer)
Maybe this is insufficient grimdark of me, but I don't like the idea of sending Sisters on suicide missions. (Frateris or IG, whatever). Is there a competitive way to use Dominions that still gives them a fighting chance to come back?
SisterSydney wrote: Maybe this is insufficient grimdark of me, but I don't like the idea of sending Sisters on suicide missions. (Frateris or IG, whatever). Is there a competitive way to use Dominions that still gives them a fighting chance to come back?
Outflank them in a vehicle (Repressor probably since it has the best Armour available) I guess. Since they'll come on a table edge you might be able to sneak on the flanks, pop a lone vehicle/backfield squad with ignores cover melta and hopefully you've been able to push the rest of your army forward to support them. You'll give up your 'alpha strike' of scouting them forward first turn though obviously.
Yeah, Outflank seems a safer option than as out -- unless you habitually botch your Reserve rolls so your flankers trickle in late from opposite sides of the board, I suppose. (This is why I gave the Sisters reserve manipulation in my fandex/expandex.) Scouting gives you certainty of maximum concentration of force at the first possible moment -- "get thar fustest with the mostest" -- which is a big deal.
Reserve Manipulation can come from a Comms Tower too, if you're taking Aegis Defence Line or a Bastion. I often take Guard Allies (I always say I'm playing Codex: Humans and take a mix of Guard, Sisters and Inquisition ), and while an Officer of the Fleet isn't that reliable it might help.
Andilus Greatsword wrote: If you're one of those people who considers a simple pun to be a joke... then yes?
Furyou Miko wrote: Needs more smileys to make it obvious its a joke instead of an attempt to avoid annoying radfems. ^^;
Yeah.... okay... not even worth a "joke"... "pun" was probably more appropriate. The whole post was intended light-heartedly too, probably not even "pun"-worthy.....
Celtic Strike wrote: The inquisition codex is probably the most points efficient way of getting a land raider into the list. 25 point inquisitor, then a land raider. Good for repentia only for the most part. Or battle conclave
If you're looking for a Minimum Sized Henchman Warband that might actually be able to do something, for 20 points you can get a Psyker and two Acolytes with Boltguns (well you could stick with the Laspistol/Chainsword loadout on the Acolytes and save 2 points, but then the unit would cost 18points and that just annoys me...). The Psyker can roll up a Psychic Power as well as adding a Warp Charge to your pool and you might get something awesome on Divination or Telepathy. If your opponent shoots at the unit, then big deal - they've 'wasted' a unit's shooting on a 20point unit. Then you can jack their Land Raider dedicated transport and leave the Psyker and his 2 bodyguards behind.
Don't forget that a Dedicated Transport does not NEED to start full.
You can purchase a relatively expensive long-range Warband (like 2 monkeys and 3 plasma Canon servitors) and deploy them back-field. Land Raider can deploy empty on the front line and repentia can jump in ASAP.
To which i ask: What would actually be a good long-range Inquisitor/band?
The above was choice 1, but i'm not sure monkeys are effective for Plasma Canons...?
Inquisitor with Conversion Beamer in there too?
I ended up going 2 and 1 and got 3rd place overall.
Hum... out of time. I'll come back to give summaries. Whoever thought up the 'send Celestine out alone and don't make her your general' is a genius. She's a beast if you throw her around recklessly!
So I went to the Onslaught GT this weekend at Templecon. I went 3-2 and finished 14th overall, with my two losses coming to the gents who won Best Overall and Best General. My wins were against Seercouncil + 4 Serpent Eldar, balanced Imperial Fists, and Fateweaver + Belakor demons. My losses were against balanced demons (no named characters, no forgeworld, no superheavies, lots of fast moving units) and three Riptide, two Skyray tau.
Played a really rough game against the new crons. I basically only won because his wraith died to overwatch fire from a 5 girl squad. It took 1100 points of firing against a buffed warrior squad to shift them and even then I didn't kill them all.
What's our answer here? My battle plan can't simple be to hope they roll really badly.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Is it just to take a 20 girl squad with 2 priests and just tarp it their units?
I am not sure the current sisters have an effective deterrent to wraiths. The majority of sisters weaponry is at 24" and 12" range, putting you right where you absolutely do NOT want to be. Granted, exorcists could help, but the randomness of their shots and the new T5 means no more instagib.
My only solution would be MSU them and try to deploy in lines, mitigating their charge range. Scouting dominions might be able to kill the spider turn 1, thereby making them less durable.
One possible solution would be a maxed out squad of crusaders with priests attached. Fight fire with fire. Oh, you have wraiths, well here are 10 3++ rerollable fearless warriors to deal with. Ally in an inquisitor with rad(?) grenades that take them down to T4? Add in a few priests with power mauls to smash at str8 for insta death?
my second game was against the new crons and I had a rough go of it, even though I ended up winning on objectives at the end. I could tarpit their warriors with celestine, but reguardless of what I fired I was bouncing off all sorts of saves everywhere. He brought 2 of the 4HP transports that raise d3 warriors per turn so even when I made it past his saves they came back anyway. Frankly it was frustrating.
So far the solutions that i've thought up involve killing the transports (my first approach), then killing the squads... problem is that the transports are AV13 skimmers and can jink for stupid saves.
They didn't seem to be able to pen my vehicles very effectively and they seem to suck hard-core in close combat (minus flayed ones and wraiths of course). Maybe those could help.
Obvious answer to AV13 with Jink saves are Ignores Cover Melta from Dominions. Did you have trouble getting in Melta range? Necron Warriors only have a 4+ save too, so Heavy Bolters and Heavy Flamers will be effective. They'll still get their RP roll, but at least you're only giving them 1 roll to not die instead of 2.
Celtic Strike wrote: Played a really rough game against the new crons. I basically only won because his wraith died to overwatch fire from a 5 girl squad. It took 1100 points of firing against a buffed warrior squad to shift them and even then I didn't kill them all.
What's our answer here? My battle plan can't simple be to hope they roll really badly.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Is it just to take a 20 girl squad with 2 priests and just tarp it their units?
Yeah I've been thinking of this, outside of allies, Sisters have no answer to Wraiths at all. Giving them T5 was probably the stupidest move GW has done since 7th dropped.
I'm thinking it isn't that bad. Exorcist their 1 spyder to deny RP for the unit and then counter-assault with a blob squad or force a crapton of wounds on them.
Without the one spyder from the formation, they are just T5, 2W and a 3++, right? (Not that that isn't bad enough.)
So I did the math, 20 sisters on the charge with a priest with no weapon would do 3 wounds. 1.5 if the wraiths have rp. Although, that means the wraiths are not going anywhere.
Celtic Strike wrote: So I did the math, 20 sisters on the charge with a priest with no weapon would do 3 wounds. 1.5 if the wraiths have rp. Although, that means the wraiths are not going anywhere.
A sisters blob squad doesn't kill you on the charge. They grind you down.
When I ran it, I ran 20 sisters, Jacobus, 3 priests (one with litanies, two with mauls). They survive forever and would grind the wraiths down (since the wraiths only have rending not, PW, so rerollable 3+ vs most attacks).
Also, 6 dca, 6 crusaders, 1 priest with power maul and a rad grenade. Is 6.4 dead wraiths. 3.2 if they have rp For about 275
Automatically Appended Next Post: But it's a huge point investment to kill 3 models. we can kill it but then we don't have anything left for the rest of the army
Celtic Strike wrote: Also, 6 dca, 6 crusaders, 1 priest with power maul and a rad grenade. Is 6.4 dead wraiths. 3.2 if they have rp For about 275
Automatically Appended Next Post: But it's a huge point investment to kill 3 models. we can kill it but then we don't have anything left for the rest of the army
That's not a sisters of battle squad then. If we're allying in, I can think of better ways to use the points.
Also, you're missing the inquisitor to get the rad grenades and without a delivery system, you're never going to get in combat with those 13 models.
Rad grenade I felt implied thr inquisitor. That's part of the calculation and cost. Their actual contribution is negligible
Automatically Appended Next Post: As for the land raider. It is probably wasted against wraiths, they're faster so they can dictate the engagement. In this situation it would he better to keep them as a counter assault unit
pretre wrote: Right. But with a sister squad, they survive on their own and can do stuff. That squad has to hope it doesn't get shot at.
Yeah, i did like the effectiveness of the 20-Girl+Jacobus and 2 priests. I had celestine in the mix too, and i'm sure that can only help. She can always fly off in the later turns when there's less shooting / no more wraiths...
So far the solutions that i've thought up involve killing the transports (my first approach), then killing the squads... problem is that the transports are AV13 skimmers and can jink for stupid saves.
.
Scouting or drop podding dominions with 4 melta guns and ignores cover would be a viable solution.
So far the solutions that i've thought up involve killing the transports (my first approach), then killing the squads... problem is that the transports are AV13 skimmers and can jink for stupid saves.
.
Scouting or drop podding dominions with 4 melta guns and ignores cover would be a viable solution.
That would need careful coordination with supporting units to avoid your Dominions being wiped out next turn.
So far the solutions that i've thought up involve killing the transports (my first approach), then killing the squads... problem is that the transports are AV13 skimmers and can jink for stupid saves.
.
Scouting or drop podding dominions with 4 melta guns and ignores cover would be a viable solution.
That would need careful coordination with supporting units to avoid your Dominions being wiped out next turn.
Pshaw! While I may play sisters, I still have an ork mentality at heart. I just like to get in the mix and smash things. I think that is why I am so desperate to make Pen Engines and Repentia work.
Of course, this may explain why I don't win very much either.....
So far the solutions that i've thought up involve killing the transports (my first approach), then killing the squads... problem is that the transports are AV13 skimmers and can jink for stupid saves.
.
Scouting or drop podding dominions with 4 melta guns and ignores cover would be a viable solution.
That would need careful coordination with supporting units to avoid your Dominions being wiped out next turn.
Pshaw! While I may play sisters, I still have an ork mentality at heart. I just like to get in the mix and smash things. I think that is why I am so desperate to make Pen Engines and Repentia work.
Of course, this may explain why I don't win very much either.....
Did you see this list? I mean playing it in a local gaming group might not show much but it has curbstomped a lot of players. A friend of mine's competition list (and entire SoB collection):
BlackTalos wrote: So, i've been playing with a new list recently (not my list, but performs really well, and i'm just happy to play):
HQ choice
Cannoness - Storm Bolter
Celestian Command squad. Dialogus, 4HB
Immolator transport TLMM
Elite Choice
Repentia Squad
Troop choices
Battle sisters squad - Extra Sister,Flamer,Heavy Flamer
Immolator transport with twin Heavy Flamer
Battle sisters squad - Meltagun,Heavy Flamer
Immolator transport TLMM
Battle sisters squad - Meltagun,Heavy Flamer
Immolator transport with twin Heavy Flamer
Battle sisters squad - 5 extra sisters,Meltagun,Heavy Flamer, simulacrum.
Repressor transport
Fast attack choice
Dominion squad, 4xMeltaguns, Simularcum,Vet Superior with combi-Melta
Immolator transport TLMM, Laud Hailer
Heavy Support choices
3 x Penitent engines
Exorcist
Retributor Squad, 4xHeavy Bolters, extra Sister:Simularcum
I am surprised how well the Penitent Engines have fared so far... With the Bastion forward and MSU immos. Having the PE at 6" coherency in the middle has drawn very little attention and usually allows for a Turn 2-3 Charge at full strength (Glancing hit or 2)
So far the solutions that i've thought up involve killing the transports (my first approach), then killing the squads... problem is that the transports are AV13 skimmers and can jink for stupid saves.
.
Scouting or drop podding dominions with 4 melta guns and ignores cover would be a viable solution.
That would need careful coordination with supporting units to avoid your Dominions being wiped out next turn.
If you are trying to be sparing with dominions, they will not work well.
They are much better off charging forward, earning their points cost and then being martyred in the most sisterly way ! !
If you can move more stuff forward and saturate the enemy position enough, they might not get the attention, but after Blowing up a land raider, they usually do lol...
I always run 3 melta-dominion squads in Immolators. They are fast attack for a reason. Scout forward or outflank to take down the biggest/baddest thing on the other side of the table. Dominions die, that's the reality of it. They are one of the strongest alpha/beta strike units in the game. If you aren't aggressive with them, then you're not playing them right :-)
My "normal" sisters list was usually quite devastating against chaos and space marines. It struggled against Tyranids and Tau with Riptides.
Typical list was:
St. C
2 BSS squads
3 Dom squads w/ Immolators (all melta)
3 Exorcists
Not glamorous, but tore power armor and terminator lists to shreds.
As mentioned earlier, I recently started fielding 8 Pen Engines and 3 squads of Repentia with Doms and BSS and Uriah. Was more effective than the internets said it would be, but really struggled against fliers.
Green is Best! wrote: As mentioned earlier, I recently started fielding 8 Pen Engines and 3 squads of Repentia with Doms and BSS and Uriah. Was more effective than the internets said it would be, but really struggled against fliers.
So I'm tweaking my list for the LVO and have 2 questions for the group:
1) Would you make Celestine the warlord to deny the point (StW is worth 10% of every game in the BAO format) or keep it as a BSS? I found it pretty easy to deny the point anyway at Templecon (she only died once in 5 games) and I like being able to use Celestine aggressively.
2) For an allied CCS, would you prefer to run 4x melta gun (in Vendetta) or Master of Ordnance plus a lascannon?
Zefig wrote: How do you deny with Celestine? I didn't think her coming back was optional, do you not attempt the test?
It is optional. If you never roll for it, you never give up STW or a kp or first blood for her.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Noodling ideas for that 1850.
Here's my last 1850 list that I got three wins with:
Spoiler:
CAD:
Celestine
Priest
5 BSS with M/F in Repressor
5 BSS with M/F in Repressor
5 Dom with 4M in Repressor
5 Dom with 4M in Immo
5 Rets with 4HF and Combi-F
Exorcist
Exorcist
CotGW:
Wolf Lord with TWM, Krakenbone, Stormshield
Iron Priest on TWM
Iron Priest on TWM
4 TWC with SS/WC, SS/CCW, PF/BP, BP/CCW Drop Pod
and here's a funny one that I am seriously considering:
Spoiler:
Uriah
20 BSS with M/F
2 Priests (Litanies)
5 BSS with M/F in Repressor
5 Dom with 4 Melta
5 Dom with 4 Melta
5 Dom with 4 Melta in Repressor with Laud Hailer
5 Rets with 4 HF and Combi
Exorcist
Exorcist
Wolf Lord with TWM, Krakenbone, SS Iron priest on TWM
Iron Priest on TWM
Drop Pod (Dom)
Drop Pod (Dom)
Drop Pod (Ret)
Priests, Jacobus and the three TWC join the Blob. 2 Pods first turn (pick) and the scouting repressor for pressure.
This is what i'm taking to vegas next week for the championship tourney at LVO.
CAD:
Celestine
5 BSS with M/F in Repressor
5 BSS with MM in Backfield with Iron Priest
5 Dom with 4M in Repressor
5 Dom with 4M in Repressor
5 Dom with 4M in Drop Pod
Exorcist
Exorcist
Avenger Strike Fighter
CotGW:
Wolf Lord with TWM, Krakenbone, Runic Armor, Pelt of Balewolf
Iron Priest on TWM
Iron Priest on foot (with BSS backfield, or maybe with a squad of Doms)
3 TWC with SS/WC, SS/CCW, SS/PF Drop Pod filled with Doms
So far it's been pretty devastating. I got a first blood last game by killing a Wratih Knight top of 1.
Also, OMFG is celestine amazing in the wolf unit. she gives them fearless and hit and run, and they give her toughness 5. it's just.. just.. brings a tear to my eye.
deviantduck wrote: This is what i'm taking to vegas next week for the championship tourney at LVO.
CAD:
Celestine
5 BSS with M/F in Repressor
5 BSS with MM in Backfield with Iron Priest
5 Dom with 4M in Repressor
5 Dom with 4M in Repressor
5 Dom with 4M in Drop Pod
Exorcist
Exorcist
Avenger Strike Fighter
CotGW:
Wolf Lord with TWM, Krakenbone, Runic Armor, Pelt of Balewolf
Iron Priest on TWM
Iron Priest on foot (with BSS backfield, or maybe with a squad of Doms)
3 TWC with SS/WC, SS/CCW, SS/PF Drop Pod filled with Doms
So far it's been pretty devastating. I got a first blood last game by killing a Wratih Knight top of 1.
Also, OMFG is celestine amazing in the wolf unit. she gives them fearless and hit and run, and they give her toughness 5. it's just.. just.. brings a tear to my eye.
Nice. I'll be there as well. Who is your warlord in this list?
Also, OMFG is celestine amazing in the wolf unit. she gives them fearless and hit and run, and they give her toughness 5. it's just.. just.. brings a tear to my eye.
That's what I've been saying. Let us know how it goes.
Celtic Strike wrote: Played a really rough game against the new crons. I basically only won because his wraith died to overwatch fire from a 5 girl squad. It took 1100 points of firing against a buffed warrior squad to shift them and even then I didn't kill them all.
What's our answer here? My battle plan can't simple be to hope they roll really badly.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Is it just to take a 20 girl squad with 2 priests and just tarp it their units?
Yeah I've been thinking of this, outside of allies, Sisters have no answer to Wraiths at all. Giving them T5 was probably the stupidest move GW has done since 7th dropped.
Sisters have one of the most efficient counter to wraiths of them all. Crusaders + Priest with Litanies. Or really, Crusaders + priest, or Uriah's blob, or really any unit that rerolls a 3+ or 3++. Though against multiple wraith units you will need Celestine to allow the priests to make their Hymns on a 10 and multiple priest-containing units.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Normally you need an expensive delivery mechanism, against enemies that want to be in melee, you just need to hang out near the things they'd like to charge.
Also, OMFG is celestine amazing in the wolf unit. she gives them fearless and hit and run, and they give her toughness 5. it's just.. just.. brings a tear to my eye.
This sounds amazing! Can Celestine still get back up though if joined to the TWC? Or does she not count as part of their unit (and thus able to use her AoF) when she is removed as a casualty?
Yeah, she's the only sister who can AoF in a non-Sisters unit, since hers triggers after she is removed from the unit.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, did you guys see that Cyberwolves got their T bumped to 5?
I bring this up because an Iron Priest + 4 cyberwolves can join a unit. If they weren't so expensive you could add a priest on a wolf + 4 wolves x2 to 9 seraphim and Celestine and have 7(10) 2+ Sv. wounds at T5, 9 wounds at 3+/6++ rerollable in a 20 model blob that moves 12".
The problem, is I think they're not cost effective :(
I also thought of adding Uriah instead to have 9 3+/rerollable 5++ T5 wounds, but at that cost there's probably cheaper ways to achieve similar things.
Maybe running the guy, 4 wolves and a 4 man battle conclave with a priest? (So they're T5, under 300 points and run with the crusaders in front until the turn where they need to make a long charge where the wolves run forward to make sure the charge doesn't fail?)
Celtic Strike wrote: Played a really rough game against the new crons. I basically only won because his wraith died to overwatch fire from a 5 girl squad. It took 1100 points of firing against a buffed warrior squad to shift them and even then I didn't kill them all.
What's our answer here? My battle plan can't simple be to hope they roll really badly.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Is it just to take a 20 girl squad with 2 priests and just tarp it their units?
Yeah I've been thinking of this, outside of allies, Sisters have no answer to Wraiths at all. Giving them T5 was probably the stupidest move GW has done since 7th dropped.
Sisters have one of the most efficient counter to wraiths of them all. Crusaders + Priest with Litanies. Or really, Crusaders + priest, or Uriah's blob, or really any unit that rerolls a 3+ or 3++. Though against multiple wraith units you will need Celestine to allow the priests to make their Hymns on a 10 and multiple priest-containing units.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Normally you need an expensive delivery mechanism, against enemies that want to be in melee, you just need to hang out near the things they'd like to charge.
That's a good way to tarpit them and whittle them down, and I kind of like it in general, but I'm trying to figure out how to keep the squad from getting totally shot up by the rest of the Necron army. I dunno, I usually do MSU Sisters so huge blobs are a foreign concept to me.
@Andilus I wouldn't worry about wraiths if you play MSU. Most wraith heavy builds have nowhere near the shooting they used to after the point increases. Focus on the supporting units and just skirt around the wraiths, occasionally feeding them an expendable unit to keep them hemmed in.
@ all: so in the new FAQ, you can break coherency when assaulting. For MSU sisters, this means you really have to be careful with your units because large units (i.e. hounds, seekers) can very easily multi-assault now.
Anyone ever try adding a melta bomb squad or two in order to take out superheavies that are so prevalent?
something like:
12 inq henchmen with melta bombs
or, if you don't like extra points laying around
10 priests with evisorators in a land raider crusader
throw them in a vehicle to give them mobility and it could be a nasty little surprise. I kinda like the henchmen squad because its only around 100 points and thats a LOT of melta bombs.
Could always spend the extra 10 points or so and give them bolters, but thats not the point.
@ all: so in the new FAQ, you can break coherency when assaulting. For MSU sisters, this means you really have to be careful with your units because large units (i.e. hounds, seekers) can very easily multi-assault now.
This doesn't change as much as you would think. The ruling has been pretty consistent.
1. Move closest model first into base contact.
2. Move another model into base, maintaining coherency
3. Continue moving one model at a time to unegaged enemy models
4. Once you run out of unengaged models, you simply need to move into assault maintaining coherency.
Once all of this has happened, you can start moving models out of coherency. But you have to move them as close as possible to models that have already moved. It does not give you permission to just start sending models in any direction in assault.
@ all: so in the new FAQ, you can break coherency when assaulting. For MSU sisters, this means you really have to be careful with your units because large units (i.e. hounds, seekers) can very easily multi-assault now.
This doesn't change as much as you would think. The ruling has been pretty consistent.
1. Move closest model first into base contact.
2. Move another model into base, maintaining coherency
3. Continue moving one model at a time to unegaged enemy models
4. Once you run out of unengaged models, you simply need to move into assault maintaining coherency.
Once all of this has happened, you can start moving models out of coherency. But you have to move them as close as possible to models that have already moved. It does not give you permission to just start sending models in any direction in assault.
I read it more aggressively in that as long as you were making it base contact, you could now ignore coherency requirements. Essentially, you can now declare a disrupted charge and as long as you can make base contact with any of the targets, coherency becomes irrelevant.
deviantduck wrote: This is what i'm taking to vegas next week for the championship tourney at LVO.
CAD:
Celestine
5 BSS with M/F in Repressor
5 BSS with MM in Backfield with Iron Priest
5 Dom with 4M in Repressor
5 Dom with 4M in Repressor
5 Dom with 4M in Drop Pod
Exorcist
Exorcist
Avenger Strike Fighter
CotGW:
Wolf Lord with TWM, Krakenbone, Runic Armor, Pelt of Balewolf
Iron Priest on TWM
Iron Priest on foot (with BSS backfield, or maybe with a squad of Doms)
3 TWC with SS/WC, SS/CCW, SS/PF Drop Pod filled with Doms
So far it's been pretty devastating. I got a first blood last game by killing a Wratih Knight top of 1.
Also, OMFG is celestine amazing in the wolf unit. she gives them fearless and hit and run, and they give her toughness 5. it's just.. just.. brings a tear to my eye.
I've been running similar list variants lately, and will tell you what you already know... It is a very strong list, and in a very efficient way, has "answers" to a lot of different parts of the current meta.
I will say I might ditch the non-TW Iron Priest, if only because the mounted one is already so versatile at being anti-armor, an objective grabber, etc... that the second will just comparatively not be worth his points. Being able to add one more "basic" TWC member to that pack will probably help it more, as its an extra casualty before that scalpel gets blunted.
If you do ditch the second Priest, you obviously need an Elite for the legality of the Company of the Great Wolf.
Might I suggest a MSU of Wolf-Guard Terminators. If you deep-strike them they might grab an objective you otherwise couldn't, and they're just durable enough to be annoying, but still cheap enough that a player will feel stupid throwing AP2 shots at them. Both are handy in this objective-based 40k world.
Compulsory: 1 HQ, 2 Elite
Optional: 3 HQ, 3 Troops, 6 Elites, 3 FA, 3 HS, 1 LoW, 1 Fortification
Restrictions: All units in this Detachment (except fortifications) must have the Space Wolves Faction.
Command Benefits:
Grimnar’s Right Hand: If this Detachment is your Primary Detachment, you can re-roll the result when rolling on the Champions of Fenris Warlord Traits Table.
Kingsguard: The following models have +1 WS on their profile when chosen as part of
this Detachment: Wolf Guard, Wolf Guard Pack Leader, Wolf Guard Terminator, Wolf Guard Terminator Leader, Thunderwolf Cavalry, Thunderwolf Cavalry Pack Leader
Source: Supplement: Champions of Fenris
- See more at: http://bloodofkittens.com/detachment-compendium/#sthash.PqnTBleA.dpuf
Essentially, if you don't mind losing Ob-Sec... Champions is the (not so) secret, REAL Space Wolves Codex. :-p Better (arguably) relics. Better Warlord traits (some REALLY excellent ones). And a better FoC that buffs some already wonderful units significantly.
WS5 TWC are incredibly good.
Its awesome... though miserably, it is no longer in print as a physical book... which pisses me off to no end.
Inquisition Detachment
-Ordo Xenos Inquisitor
- Henchies: 4x crusaders, 4x DCA's, 2x ministorum priest (one with Litanies, he comes from the Sisters CAD)
- LR Crusader, multi-melta, psybolt ammo
Automatically Appended Next Post: and just to add to the discussion, TWC are an amazing ally +1 to that
I've loved running DCA/crusader stars as they crush everything 3+ save and up (so far I've rocked Swarmlord, big Death Company blob with Astorath and a 4+ FNP, Mega-armored warboss and retinue, big wraithguard squads etc., most of those most of the damage was done by the I6 step of round 1 of combat)
Doms are absolutely going to be smashed after they get out of the tank, you can use them for movement phase control e.g. setting screens and other things while also throwing their melta. I definitely have seen them dominate against the right opponent.
I'm finding that type of opponent list (static, clear armor or high toughness/no invul targets on the board turn 1) that Doms excel against is rare around me, and if you're not facing a prime target, your girls are easy targets who can do little in return.
To be honest, the DCA/Crusader/Xenos Inq squad is my go to squad for theorycraft exercises in threads where someone asserts unit X is unkillable by anything.
If you toss in Severin Loth with Biomancy to stack an Enfeeble on the Rad Grenade that unit goes to disgusting... (Alternatively spending 40 points making the inq a psyker and taking a psyker and fishing for it is more reasonable.)
I'm about to start painting a LR, 2 psybacks, 2 min squads of plasma gun acolytes, and a DCA/Crusader/Inq squad to be my go to allies.
Mavnas wrote: If you toss in Severin Loth with Biomancy to stack an Enfeeble on the Rad Grenade that unit goes to disgusting... (Alternatively spending 40 points making the inq a psyker and taking a psyker and fishing for it is more reasonable.)
He an imperial Armour Inquisitor? Not seen him in the Inq Codex?
Mavnas wrote: If you toss in Severin Loth with Biomancy to stack an Enfeeble on the Rad Grenade that unit goes to disgusting... (Alternatively spending 40 points making the inq a psyker and taking a psyker and fishing for it is more reasonable.)
He an imperial Armour Inquisitor? Not seen him in the Inq Codex?
IA Red Scorpion Space Marine Librarian. Automatically knows an entire discipline (I think he can choose any except Divination) and can burn 1 warp charge to make his 2+ save a 2++ save for a turn.
Inquisition Detachment
-Ordo Xenos Inquisitor
- Henchies: 4x crusaders, 4x DCA's, 2x ministorum priest (one with Litanies, he comes from the Sisters CAD)
- LR Crusader, multi-melta, psybolt ammo
Automatically Appended Next Post: and just to add to the discussion, TWC are an amazing ally +1 to that
I've loved running DCA/crusader stars as they crush everything 3+ save and up (so far I've rocked Swarmlord, big Death Company blob with Astorath and a 4+ FNP, Mega-armored warboss and retinue, big wraithguard squads etc., most of those most of the damage was done by the I6 step of round 1 of combat)
Doms are absolutely going to be smashed after they get out of the tank, you can use them for movement phase control e.g. setting screens and other things while also throwing their melta. I definitely have seen them dominate against the right opponent.
I'm finding that type of opponent list (static, clear armor or high toughness/no invul targets on the board turn 1) that Doms excel against is rare around me, and if you're not facing a prime target, your girls are easy targets who can do little in return.
So if you have the points, I'd switch out the CCS plasma rifles for a master of ordnance and a lascannon (in that order). Ignore cover, S9, AP3 large blast is pretty sweet. I'd also drop their chimera in favor a second wyvern.
To make it more of a sisters death squad how about starting with a repentia unit. Thinking something like:
-9 Repentia + the S&M whip girl
-Priest with LoF -Ordo Xeno's Inq with rad and psyco gernades and the scouting relic
Still need something to tank so I was thinking a SM or GK character. Artificer armor and a storm shield (or the eternal warrior storm shield) would work well and the GK characters almost all know Hammerhand. (whats better than 36 S6 AP2 armorbane? 36 S10 AP2 armorbane of course!)
If you go with a Black Templar or Grey Knights allied force then you can get a land raider out of troops for ObSec, but you would have to load your squad in it on the first turn. Kinda annoying, but 4 AV14 hull points are a pain for some armies to crack when parked on an objective.
I'm kinda liking the GK version. The prospect of instant death on T5 troops is VERY appealing
Automatically Appended Next Post: I do think that to run a squad like this you will need a land raider, probably a Crusader for the capacity. Scouting one forward is a fun prospect
Yea, I thought about that but the problem is that you would be throwing him in what I would consider a suicide squad. Giving up your general is rough. Its ashame it doesn't work when he isn't your general.
Countercharge would be nice in the rare chance someone would actually charge repentia though.
I suppose the biggest thing about any variant is that it demands attention from your opponent. If they choose to ignore it, it will cause an awful lot of damage. Works for me because my obsec BSS squads and rhino/immolators will be free to win the game for me.
So regarding my own upcoming tournament saga... quite a few lists have been becoming public, or folks discussing 'em, and it seems like my worst fears are confirmed.
SEVERAL players are bringing some flavor of crazy-bike abuse. One player in particular has a White Scars list, with an Imperial Knight, a Chapter Master, Libby, Command Squad, etc... resulting in a possibly Invisible, possibly re-rolling cover saves, 3+ jink-save, FNP, death-star, with an Eternal Warrior Chapter Master soaking up hits and smash-facing...
In light of that... what does a Sisters/Space Wolves army do in response?
I know if I get first turn, Melta Doms, especially podded in might be able to be placed well enough to shoot a few bikes out of the squad, ignoring cover, and maybe get the Apothocary... who knows. But beyond that?
It seems like in a straight-up fight, I can't even send in my TWC/Wolf Lord, as the Chapter Master can ID my Wolf Lord or Pack Leader easily enough, and since I am not doubling him out S-wise, I am not bypassing his FNP except with my sole Power-Fist TWC guy.
I'm really getting hung up on how to deal with specifically this kind of death-star.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: So regarding my own upcoming tournament saga... quite a few lists have been becoming public, or folks discussing 'em, and it seems like my worst fears are confirmed.
SEVERAL players are bringing some flavor of crazy-bike abuse. One player in particular has a White Scars list, with an Imperial Knight, a Chapter Master, Libby, Command Squad, etc... resulting in a possibly Invisible, possibly re-rolling cover saves, 3+ jink-save, FNP, death-star, with an Eternal Warrior Chapter Master soaking up hits and smash-facing...
In light of that... what does a Sisters/Space Wolves army do in response?
I know if I get first turn, Melta Doms, especially podded in might be able to be placed well enough to shoot a few bikes out of the squad, ignoring cover, and maybe get the Apothocary... who knows. But beyond that?
It seems like in a straight-up fight, I can't even send in my TWC/Wolf Lord, as the Chapter Master can ID my Wolf Lord or Pack Leader easily enough, and since I am not doubling him out S-wise, I am not bypassing his FNP except with my sole Power-Fist TWC guy.
I'm really getting hung up on how to deal with specifically this kind of death-star.
Thoughts?
Melta Doms peel off models. TWC lord is not ID by a Chapter Master. TWC lord will probably chew up a chapter master pretty easy. Also, keep in mind that your TWC are hitting on 3's. If you have a priest, you get rerolls on hits and armor saves. You'll chew them up if they're dumb enough to charge or get charged.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: So regarding my own upcoming tournament saga... quite a few lists have been becoming public, or folks discussing 'em, and it seems like my worst fears are confirmed.
SEVERAL players are bringing some flavor of crazy-bike abuse. One player in particular has a White Scars list, with an Imperial Knight, a Chapter Master, Libby, Command Squad, etc... resulting in a possibly Invisible, possibly re-rolling cover saves, 3+ jink-save, FNP, death-star, with an Eternal Warrior Chapter Master soaking up hits and smash-facing...
In light of that... what does a Sisters/Space Wolves army do in response?
I know if I get first turn, Melta Doms, especially podded in might be able to be placed well enough to shoot a few bikes out of the squad, ignoring cover, and maybe get the Apothocary... who knows. But beyond that?
It seems like in a straight-up fight, I can't even send in my TWC/Wolf Lord, as the Chapter Master can ID my Wolf Lord or Pack Leader easily enough, and since I am not doubling him out S-wise, I am not bypassing his FNP except with my sole Power-Fist TWC guy.
I'm really getting hung up on how to deal with specifically this kind of death-star.
Thoughts?
Melta Doms peel off models. TWC lord is not ID by a Chapter Master. TWC lord will probably chew up a chapter master pretty easy. Also, keep in mind that your TWC are hitting on 3's. If you have a priest, you get rerolls on hits and armor saves. You'll chew them up if they're dumb enough to charge or get charged.
Well, his Chapter Master has a Thunderhammer... so, isn't he S10? Or do bikes not confer a +1s like Thunderwolf Mounts do?
If so, that would help.
Still, while I am drowning him in saves, aren't they very easy saves to make, considering they're likely 2+/FNP for the vast, vast, majority of 'em?
Only thing going for me is the Krackenbone Relic means on a charge (or charged), my Wolf Lord is getting 6, AP2 attacks, at initiative 5.
Automatically Appended Next Post: So... I didn't realize how "squishy" the rest of the bikes in that squad would be.
Hypothetically, as Sagaborn means I have to challenge... I throw my Wolf Claw/Storm Shield Pack Leader at the Chapter Master, and just suck it up, but the rest of my squad and Wolf Lord absolutely trample the rest, including the Apothocary. And from there... yeah, its an uphill battle for the CM.
Yes, that logic works. Although, keep in mind once the squad is gone ALL the wounds go to the chapter master. He can only make so many 3++ saves.
Also, keep in mind your WL can probably take him flat out in a challenge. With Krakenbone alone, you're going to be making him make 3-4 saves a turn probably.
Spoiler:
6 Attacks, 8/9 hit so 48/9 hit. Wound on 2's, so 5/6 wound, so 240/54 wound. Chappy saves 2/3. So 1/3 get through. 240/162. So 1.5 Wounds at initiative on first turn.
Chappy, on the other hand, swings what.. .4 times? Hits on 4s. So 2 Hits. 10/6 Wounds. WL saves 8/9 of them with Priest. So that's 10/54 wounds, maybe. (1 in 5 chance of taking a wound in return). Chappy goes down pretty quick ,although I'd still put the WL on the squad since he just eats them and then gets to kill the Chapter master anyways
Well the only added difficulty I have is if his Libby ends up fishing for, and getting Invis, which is a 50% chance as he is taking the upgraded ML.
Hitting on sixes only makes it a hell of a longer grind on my end, potentially.
Its a mediocre hope, but I am really hoping that my Melta Doms strip a few models from the unit on Turn 1. If I get first-turn and can go before he potentially gets Invis off, I can reasonably expect them to kill 2 (almost 3) models off, and depending on model placement, might make sure one of those is the Apothocary.
So, another part of this weird-mish-mash of rules tournament, is that "Big Game Hunter" is now a tertiary objective, and whoever killed the highest value model which died during said game, picks up 2vp.
Now, the meta has again made clear that this means a LOT of Knight Titans.
What is my best bet should I decide to go Titan hunting? Strip some wounds with Melta Sisters before using my own Titan to finish it in CC?
Can TWC units + Wolf Lord stand a decent chance, considering all those rending attacks, or is the counter-attack not worth risking?
Titans are pretty easy with SOB. My strategy is to get 2 exorcists and at least one Dom squad in two to three facings. Then make him choose. Whichever one he doesn't choose gets the lions share of firepower. The other one probably hits other targets.
I haven't needed to assault one yet, but that's what Iron Priests are technically for.
pretre wrote: Titans are pretty easy with SOB. My strategy is to get 2 exorcists and at least one Dom squad in two to three facings. Then make him choose. Whichever one he doesn't choose gets the lions share of firepower. The other one probably hits other targets.
I haven't needed to assault one yet, but that's what Iron Priests are technically for.
Highlander, remember? One Exorcist, and one Dominion Squad for me only. Sadly. :-p
pretre wrote: Bah. Stupid highlander. Same principle though. Divide your shots on to multiple facings.
Yeah, Knights are quite easy for Sisters.
Do not forget that your Doms are going to be the main damage-dealers (V Exorcist). So the shield is going to go up on the side they are on. As they *should be* within 6" of the Knight, they should also have no trouble straddling 2 Armour facings. Then the chance for damage is pretty even, and the Knight will go "Boom".
Even better is when the 2 that are under the resulting Catastrophic explosion survive the "D" with shields of faith (enemy did not roll a 6, of course).
Local Knight player refuses to play his "No loose streak" knight army against me since that 1 shooting phase stripping all 6 HP. (He decided the exorcist was the biggest threat)
pretre wrote: Bah. Stupid highlander. Same principle though. Divide your shots on to multiple facings.
Yeah, Knights are quite easy for Sisters.
Do not forget that your Doms are going to be the main damage-dealers (V Exorcist). So the shield is going to go up on the side they are on. As they *should be* within 6" of the Knight, they should also have no trouble straddling 2 Armour facings. Then the chance for damage is pretty even, and the Knight will go "Boom".
Even better is when the 2 that are under the resulting Catastrophic explosion survive the "D" with shields of faith (enemy did not roll a 6, of course).
Local Knight player refuses to play his "No loose streak" knight army against me since that 1 shooting phase stripping all 6 HP. (He decided the exorcist was the biggest threat)
So here's what I'm thinking my final cut will be for the LVO in about a week. What do you guys think? I upgraded the dominion superiors to veterans because I've found I really like that extra pip of leadership (even when laud hailers are around). I cut down my big squads to squeeze in an extra dominion squad to parachute out of the vendetta. It cost me 8 OBSEC bodies, so I'm not sure yet if it'll be worth the trade but it gave me the flexibility to change out the CCS melta guns for the master of ordnance and the potential ignore cover barrage. So starting on the board, I can have 4 sources of ignore cover (wyverns, CCS, 2x dominion) with another in reserve plus the ranged fire from the exorcists and the veterans. Its a lot of firepower potentially with Celestine as a disruption unit. All comments/critics are welcome. I'm 9 games into my sisters career so still learning here.
Sisters CAD Celestine 6x Sisters, Flamer, Heavy Flamer, Rhino 6x Sisters, Flamer, Heavy Flamer, Rhino 5x Dominions, 4x Melta, Veteran, Combi-melta, Immolator with Laud Hailer and Dozer Blades 5x Dominions, 4x Melta, Veteran, Combi-melta, Immolator with Laud Hailer and Dozer Blades 5x Dominions, 4x Melta, Veteran, Combi-melta (ride in Vendetta) 3x Exorcists
AM Allies CCS w/ Master of Ordnance, Lascannon Veterans, 3x plasma rifle, chimera 2x Wyverns Vendetta
Obviously you've recognized yourself, the importance of ignores-cover against certain units. That said, come game-time, make sure to inventory the full threat list your opponent brings.
I myself am guilty of going "Oh, that's a jink shenanigans unit!" and then getting horse-blinders and firing way too much valuable offense at it. If something else will do you more harm, put the fire-power there. :-)
pretre wrote: Can you convert repressors? They're better than immos and with the doZers you're not far off. Also, why the veterans and the extra bss?
Might be wrong, but it looks like your dom squads have five + the vet? But no melta's?
Could be me just misreading your abbreviations. IF there are points to be had from those six fig squads I would second Pretre and convert/sub in some Repressors for your immo/rhino transports. AV13 wall transports are excellent.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:Obviously you've recognized yourself, the importance of ignores-cover against certain units. That said, come game-time, make sure to inventory the full threat list your opponent brings.
I myself am guilty of going "Oh, that's a jink shenanigans unit!" and then getting horse-blinders and firing way too much valuable offense at it. If something else will do you more harm, put the fire-power there. :-)
Yeah, its a tricky balance when allocating firepower. I generally avoid shooting at anything with 2+ cover unless I have an ignore cover weapon with sufficiently high AP or I really need to take off the last wound or two. Usually its easier to kill the support units but sometimes you have to go for the throat.
pretre wrote:Can you convert repressors? They're better than immos and with the doZers you're not far off. Also, why the veterans and the extra bss?
I won't have Repressors done in time for Vegas next Friday between work and a Thursday flight. The two extra battle sisters came from leftover points and the Veterans are because I really just like having that extra pip of leadership. I've failed LD8 rerollable too many times in my first nine games. I like the security blanket of LD9 rerollable on the dominions for the act of faith.
dracpanzer wrote:
pretre wrote: Can you convert repressors? They're better than immos and with the doZers you're not far off. Also, why the veterans and the extra bss?
Might be wrong, but it looks like your dom squads have five + the vet? But no melta's?
Could be me just misreading your abbreviations. IF there are points to be had from those six fig squads I would second Pretre and convert/sub in some Repressors for your immo/rhino transports. AV13 wall transports are excellent.
The Dominions are 5 girls total with 4x meltas and a combi-melta. I'll go edit my original post. Thanks for the catch. I won't get Repressors done in time for Vegas but I'm leaning towards them for the future. Just a little leery because I like to build my army to be as tournament compatible as possible and FW is still hit or miss. AV13 is sweet though, especially when outflanking against Serpent Spam.
EDIT: And I missed a Veteran upgrade when relooking at my Army Builder just now. So if I drop both BSS squads down to 5 girls, it leaves me at 1835 and 15 points to play with. Any suggestions?
EDIT: And I missed a Veteran upgrade when relooking at my Army Builder just now. So if I drop both BSS squads down to 5 girls, it leaves me at 1835 and 15 points to play with. Any suggestions?
Three storm bolters for your exorcists, or a combi-melta and melta bombs for one of your Dom squads
I like your list, it's a good all around alpha strike/obsec scoring set up. I've found that immos and rhinos die ridiculously quickly, especially if tourneys aren't bringing true LOS-blocking terrain and if the opponent is loaded for bear e.g. Tau/space elves/necronz
This often results in the 5, low-model count, power-armored but T3 infantry squads being exposed early on and vulnerable to extermination by other enemy infantry like daemons, Marines, necron warriors, warp spiders etc. In low numbers you'll have to be defensive and strategic to survive fights with them, let alone win. The Doms can be amazing in concert with the exorcists at dropping and popping things, but they also will be exposed and likely early high-priority low-staying-power targets.
So the LVO should be an awesome test of your list and ya skills. Against Daemon circuses, loaded Tau or Taudar, pentaflyrants, strong pod lists etc. I think Sisters will continue to struggle.
Right now I'm considering bringing a double-deathstar list geared on getting into assault and having fun.
What do you think fellow adepts:
ASCAD Celestine
2 priests, one with litanies
2 min BSS
Inquisition
Coteaz
Ordo Xenos, rad grens, psyker, force swingy-pokey, Liber Heresius
Henchies: 6 crusaders/dcas, LR Crusader MM psybolt ammo (priests and Inquisitors go with these bros)
Henchies: 6 crusaders, 3 priests with mauls, one with evisc (go in Stormraven w/ Celestine)
So essentially you have a priestmaulstar+Celestine for late game smashing out of the Raven, the blades of fury star in the Landraider with psyker support, the Raven and two talons formation for objective grabbing and shooty shoots/AA, and 150 points left over to do who knows what with. With lots of room for cheapening in the stars. One option to add would be an allied AM detachment, another might be a dom squad, another might be an exorcist or two, or some rides for the sisters.
That list has two scary death stars and a lot of air support, but it's a little short on OBSEC: There are just two footslogging squads of five T3 models, which I suspect won't last long enough to secure anything.
acolytes with bolters could wander around pushing units off of objectives (ashame not obsec). They're dirt cheap and give you more bodies. Maybe 2 units, one on foot and one in a chimera or something.
Either that, or Avenger strike fighters happen to cost 150 points. Just saying
PanzerLeader wrote: I like it. Should be a fun, in your face list. You can always keep the two BSS squads in reserve to walk on to your edge later in the game.
2 5-girl BS Squads Walking?
They could really do with at least Rhinos. That's 4 Obsec Units coming on and a significant survivability option for the 2 min Squads
PanzerLeader wrote: I like it. Should be a fun, in your face list. You can always keep the two BSS squads in reserve to walk on to your edge later in the game.
2 5-girl BS Squads Walking?
They could really do with at least Rhinos. That's 4 Obsec Units coming on and a significant survivability option for the 2 min Squads
Normally I'd agree with you. But in his double DCA build, I don't see where he can easily cut out 80 points to get the 2 rhinos in. He's paying for the BSS as a Celestine tax so it's not worth investing much more in them. Although he could just make the Sisters an allied detachment, not buy the second squad and save some points. Nothing requires you to run a CAD after all.
Actually a CAD is required in order to make Celestine the Warlord and take advantage of her Leadership on her squads War Hymn tests through Beacon of Faith. Only one Litanies per army, so you need a CAD to work that bonus. But there is some room to find points for Rhinos, I'll consider it.
Ran the Sisters in a 2k Highlander RTT yesterday, ended up first of twelve. The list/rundown was:
Spoiler:
Primary: Sisters of Battle
HQ
Celestine
Jacobus (warlord)
Troops
BSS #1 x 15 w/MM, Melta Gun, Melta Bombs
BSS #2 x 7 w/Melta Gun, Melta Bombs
Fast Attack
Dominions x 5 w/4x Melta Guns in a MM Immolator
Heavy Support
Retributers x 8, 3xHF, Melta Bombs (deployed BA Drop Pod)
Allied Det:
Blood Angels
HQ
Sanguinary Priest w/ Valour's Edge, Angel's Wing and BP
Elites
Sanguinary Guard x 9, w/PF, Infernus Pistols x 2, Chapter Banner (mix of swords/axes)
Troops
Scout Squad x 5, Camo Cloaks & Sniper Rifles
Fast Attack
Drop Pod (For the rets)
Heavy Support
Stormraven (AC/MM)
Knight Detachment
Knight Paladin
First game was five objectives versus pure Crons, Vanguard deployment, he ran a deathstar of ten Lychguard w/ Orikan, Nemesor, a D Lord and another lord out of a Night Scythe; a Ghostark full of Warriors, ten Immortals for his backfield, six Wraiths, and a C'Tan shard. I won the primary (Objectives) holding three of the five, he won secondary and we ended up tied with tertiary. I had more points alive at the end so I (barely) won the match. Jacobus and the big BSS held the Deathstar and the Wraiths for three turns in CC, slowing them down enough that my scouts, Rets and SG could hold the other three, with the fifth unclaimed (ended on T5 but again, Jacobus/BSS tarpitted the deathstar/wraiths).
Game two was against a pure Dark Angels army; Hammer/Anvil, he ran Ezekial, tacs and another libby in drop pod, a terminator squad, termie interrogator chaplain with Deathwing Knights, the two fliers (Nephilim and ?), another small tac squad, Ravenwing Knights, and an attack bike. I used the smaller BSS to slow down his DWK, Jacobus/BSS held on OBJ, while Celestine/SG cleared through the RW, she then broke off to claim one of his backfield OBJs. The Stormraven went into hover mode on a backfield OBJ after finishing off the Tac squad there, and the Knight Paladin just ran away 12" until his chaplain was alone then assaulted. My poor nuns rolled terribly on armor saves and the Rets were gone after failing something like 12 of 15 armor saves, but I ended up wining on tactical objectives (Primary) the secondary and tertiary.
Game three was against another Cron list, he had: C'Tan Shard, Nemesor w/ 20 Warriors, ten Immortals, the Wraith/Spyder/Scarab formation, 10x Deathmarks,6 x Tomb Blades, a Ghost Ark full of Warriors, and 5x sword/board Lychguard. We each had an OBJ in our deployment zone (Dawn of War) and the Relic as secondary on top of the WHF Tower terrain. I infiltrated my scouts onto the relic, and deployed my OBJ in a corner with ruins, the big BSS/Jacobus on it, the smaller BSS next to it to screen for the Knight Paladin. Celestine/SG waited in deepstrike, the Doms outflanking and the Rets rode in the drop pod of course. He deployed in a line, Nemesor and the warrior blob on his OBJ, the Immortals, Tomb Blades and Wraith/Scarab/Spyder near my OBJ and the C'tan towards the middle with the Lychguard & Ghost Ark. My Rets dropped down to flame/rend his immortals, failing to do much of anything, also trying to put some wounds on the Tomb Blades. Between reanimation, I did zero wounds I think. The Knight sent some love and put a wound on the spyder and a nearby TB, but it reanimated. He ran his Wraiths forward, with the Scarabs and Tomb Blades. The Immortals took out the Rets and then went to work on the Drop Pod. His Deathmarks deepstruck next to the big BSS but lost about half the squad by turn three. His Spyder lost its last wound rolling a 1 when trying to make a Scarab; so his Scarabs/Wraiths lost reanimation protocols. The smaller BSS died to massed fire, then the Wraiths/Scarabs charged the Knight. He took out 3/6 Wraiths and a couple Scarabs before explodinating. Celestine/SG deep struck near his OBJ, the Doms outflanked on that side and put fire into his warrior blob. The SG/Celestine squad charged/wrecked the Lychguard, which are still a bargain at less than 200 for the five. They then shot/charged into the 20 warrior/Nemesor blob and won combat. He lost his leadership, rerolled, and lost again. Nemesor/remaining warriors were swept. The SG/Celestine then moved toward his OBJ in ruins and held there for the remainder of the game. The Doms/Stormraven put several wounds on the C'Tan, and finally took it down after he had some pretty unfortunate rolls (like 3/4 failed Invuls in a turn). The remaining Wraiths/Scarabs attacked Jacobus' squad, and combat went for two full turns until the game ended; one swarm remained although it was maybe outside of the OBJ. His remaining three Tomb Blades jumped onto the Relic and quickly killed three of the five scouts, but they didn't run away and the OBJ was contested. The game ended on turn five, and I won primary (held one, contested another) we tied on secondary (Relic), and I won on tertiary (I had Slay the Warlord, we tied on First Blood) and we both had linebreaker. Points wise I had like 995 left he had like 990 left; so it was pretty evenly matched.
In hindsight, I should have dropped the rets onto his warrior squad to flame them, his reanimation protocols would have been all that stopped the unit from taking multiple wounds, and I didn't get as many rends as I was hoping for. I've played the Canoptek Harvest and knew that reanimating Wraiths were really nasty, so putting wounds on the Spyder (and it losing its last to a bad roll) was key to reducing their combat effectiveness. In CC, the Scarabs did the most damage, they rolled enough 6's to glance the poor Knight, but not before he squished a few Wraiths.
On the whole, running Celestine with the 2+, FNP, Furious Charge, WS5 Sanguinary Guard worked quite well. She could run up front to take bolter shots, her I7 was wonderful as always, and she worked great with the SG. Although expensive and lacking an invuln; its so much faster than what my opponents were running (minus the Wraiths).
Thanks, I ended up 3-0 with 44 BP, second was 3-0 with 43 BP while third was 2-1 with 41 BP. And I was surprised when they changed it, but FNP on Celestine was pretty sweet and I just used look out sir for anything high strength, at her low base cost she was a huge boon to the Sanguinary Guard, and breaking off to snag objectives was just one more bonus.
interested wrote: Actually a CAD is required in order to make Celestine the Warlord and take advantage of her Leadership on her squads War Hymn tests through Beacon of Faith. Only one Litanies per army, so you need a CAD to work that bonus. But there is some room to find points for Rhinos, I'll consider it.
PanzerLeader wrote: I like it. Should be a fun, in your face list. You can always keep the two BSS squads in reserve to walk on to your edge later in the game.
2 5-girl BS Squads Walking?
They could really do with at least Rhinos. That's 4 Obsec Units coming on and a significant survivability option for the 2 min Squads
Normally I'd agree with you. But in his double DCA build, I don't see where he can easily cut out 80 points to get the 2 rhinos in. He's paying for the BSS as a Celestine tax so it's not worth investing much more in them. Although he could just make the Sisters an allied detachment, not buy the second squad and save some points. Nothing requires you to run a CAD after all.
Yeah, i read this:
interested wrote: and 150 points left over to do who knows what with. With lots of room for cheapening in the stars. One option to add would be an allied AM detachment, another might be a dom squad, another might be an exorcist or two, or some rides for the sisters.
I'd say buy at least the 2 Rhinos, and then play around with the 70pts left
Here's my two proposed lists (largely I'm just shuffling wargear at this point):
CAD Uriah
Priest with Litanies of Faith
17 BSS with Flamer x2 and MB 5 BSS 4 Doms with 4 Melta and Repressor
4 Doms with 4 Melta and Repressor
5 Rets with 4 HF Exorcist
Exorcist
CotGW
Wolf Lord with Power Fist and SS and TWM
Stormwolf with TL-MM Stormwolf with TL-MM Drop Pod
Servitor
Servitor
1849
CAD St. Celestine
Priest with MB 15 BSS with Flamer x2 and MB 5 BSS 4 Doms with 4 Melta and Repressor
4 Doms with 4 Melta and Repressor
5 Rets with 4 HF Exorcist
Exorcist
CotGW
Wolf Lord with Power Fist and SS and TWM
Stormwolf with TL-MM Stormwolf with TL-MM Drop Pod
Servitor
Servitor
1850
BlackTalos wrote: Servitors as the Elites tax? just doing field repairs on the way? =P
One goes in a Stormwolf to hide him and the other either in reserves or in the biggest hiding spot on the board. 20 point Elite Tax is pretty sweet.
And they can't do repairs without an IP, can they?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Sadly, you can't mix them with IP for the elite tax. (i wanted one IP and one servitor) If an IP is taken, they don't take slots.
The funny thing about it is that the only thing that I can think of that would do a better job at the Stompa stomping would be terminators with chain fists (S4 base). On the charge, the Repentia have more attacks! and the strength D kills terminators about as fast as repentia.
Course, getting them into combat is a bit of a trick.
So I posted a report on the Sisters of battle over on the 'Rate my codex' thread. I did a review of the codex back at the beginning of 6th so it's based on that. Still, I thought I post it here to see if you guys agree with my assessment
Adepta Sororitas/Sisters of battle
Before I start this review I must say what 'Acts of Faith' are. ALL battle Sister squads have 2 special rules built in. A 6++ (Including ALL Vehicles) and a Special rule that can be used once per game.
During the proper phase (shooting, move, assault ect) roll a leadership test. If it's passed the squad gains that special rule until the beginning of that next phase. I will list their powers next to them.
I'm also not going to include the 2 options we have from forge world right now either
HQ:
Saint Celestine: Must take Act of Faith: Resurrection She's arguably one of the best HQ choices in the game. The codexes only 2+ armour. Only HQ with a jump pack. a S:5 AP:3 sword that also works as a heavy flamer all the time. No eternal warrior but can come back to life with full woulds if she passes a leadership test (At LD 10) and can work as normal. She has hit and run with a stupidly good I of 7. A huge number of base attacks, fearless and a master crafted weapon and Frag and Krak grenades. She WILL chew threw anything up to Mega Armour Nobs, Terminators and Nid Monstrous creatures.
Jacobus: Useful 3 wounds, 4+ Invul. High leadership but absolutely terrible in melee AND shooting. His main features are the fact that he's cheap (100 pts) His warlord trait is amazing (Gives the battle sister squad he is with a 5++ shield of faith) and counter attack. Plus, he gives the squad he's in a second use of their act of faith. He's also a priest, so Zealot and warhymns. (Pass a leadership test get either, reroll failed to wounds, or failed saves in melee. Or smash, if you want it too.) If youre running a large foot mob he's key to keeping them alive.
Cannoness: Useless Our ONLY non-named HQ choice. She's got the stats that you would think she would have. No access to any decent melee weapons. No access to bikes or jump packs and an act of faith that is absolutely useless. (Hatred - once per game. Not useful, especially in a shooting army and one where priests are available) She has access to Relics, and some of the relics are pretty cool. It's just on a terrible delivery system
Command squad: Useless Act of Faith: Fleet, crusader and move through cover Think of a space marine command squad where the only upgrades are special or heavy weapons or melee weapons. No bikes or jumppacks. No Champion. The're okay on their own but can only be taken if you take a Cannoness and, hahahahaa, that's not going to happen. Plus, even then aren't that great. Kitted out for melee with a priest and a Cannoness they could even be good. But we have no way of getting them to combat as the Sisters have no assault vehicles.
Priest: Must take They do not take up a HQ slot and you can have several of them. They're 25 points. One wound with a 4++. But are amazing in what they give the army. Zealot. Plus war hymns. I state what warhymns do under Jacobs but in the Sisters codex they are independent characters so can be put in ANY FRIENDLY SQUAD. Makes Sisters amazing as an ally for other Imperial forces and gives BSS squads the staying power they need.
Battle conclave: Situational They're like an Inquisition squad but with only the Arcos, Death Cult and Crusaders as options. They're not bad on their own and can be kinda killy. But Sisters don't have assault vehicles and the Inquisitor squads are far and away better options. Still, not a bad counter assault force for a pure Sisters army.
TROOPS:
Battle Sister Squads: Must take Act of Faith: Preferred enemy shooting/melee Think of a cross between Imperial guard vets and Space marines, BS 4, LD 8, SV 3+, S, T, I and WS 3. They're must take for the simple fact that they are THE ONLY troop choice in a Sisters of battle army so must be taken for a legal list. They fill basically the same niche as that of Space marine. Semi durable, Obsec, troop choices that can put out decent fire power. They have few key advantages of their more famous, male counter parts. They have a 6++ (ALL THE TIME), they're cheaper but put out the same damage (11 points) and can take both a Heavy AND A Special in a 5 Girl squad. Which is cannot be overstated. The squad size ranges from 5-20. Also useful. Being only T, WS, and I 3 though they get swept pretty easily as they lack 'They shall know no rules' and can be shot off an objective in 5 girl squad. Still 20 girls with a priest can AND WILL tarpit ANY combat unit in the game. (Fearless Re-rollable 3+/6++ saves are hilarious sometimes)
ELITES:
Celestines: Useless Act of Faith:+1 Strength, melee Veteran versions of Battle Sister squads. They have an extra attack, an extra WS and an AOF that gives them S:4. They also have NO access to special melee weapons of any kind. They have the same upgrades as the, useful but not great, battle sister squads but they lose Obsec. Never take unless you run out of troop choices and want more bolters for some reason
Repentia: Situational generously Act of Faith:3+ Feel no pain, assault phase Okay, so, interesting choice. Fearless. Fleet. 2 Attacks. Rage. Armed with a CHAINFIST. All for 14 POINTS. 14! Right. Sound great right? Well... eh. No armour saves. (Just the 6++) no feel no pain normally. So they can AND will get shot off the table before they run to you. When they do get to you they will strike last. There's some cool combos you can do with them. (Jacobus for the 5++ and some priests) but unless they're a counter assault force or coming out of a land raider (which we can't get) they're not great. Still, more close combat hitting power than Terminators for 35% of the cost isn't bad.
FAST ATTACK:
Seraphim: Situational Act of Faith: Shred, shooting phase So they're veterans but only have 1 attack.... they do have hit and run, but at I 3.... Their main ability is the fact that they can take 2 SETS of either hand Flamers or Melta pistols. That's 4 Hand flamers or 4 melta pistols. The Superior (Sgt) can take ONE plasma pistol or a H. Flamer or Melta pistol to add to it. People want to use them as an assault squad but that's not the point. They shoot something really hard (typically an out of the way support unit like a long fang squad or a massive, compacted foot horde like gaunts or orks) then fly away if they attack you. Their 6++ is also reroll able. They would be more useful if Sisters had HQ choices with jump packs but only have one. Here's the thing, if you take Saint Celestine, you MUST take Seraphim. They give her shred on her heavy flamer attack and she gives them a 2+ armour save, heavy hitting close combat power and I7 on their hit and run. They function as a great Saint Celstine delivery system and a good harassment unit and not much else. Still, 5 Infernus pistols at BS4 isn't that bad.
Dominons: Must take Act of Faith: Ignore cover, shooting Okay, they're Battle Sisters in every way except one key difference. The squad itself has Scout. Which means it can get in on a target turn one. The other part of this is that they can take FOUR special weapons in a 5 girl squad. (Plus a combi on the Superior) That's 5 Melta guns with Scout at BS 4. 5 Melta guns with Scout at BS 4 with IGNORES COVER. Best used to kill Wave Serpents or other Important armoured targets. They have other weapon options, 4 Flamers or 4 Storm bolters. These other two options are useful as storm bolters are laughable and getting ignores cover on flamers is a waste. Set them up close to the enemy. Scout 12''. Get first turn. Move 6, get out 6 shoot. 36' inch move with melta guns on turn one. How far away can most people be on deployment? Expect them to fail in clutch situations and when they don't, they WILL be killed afterwards. Keeping them alive isn't a big concern. The biggest cost of this squad are the 50 points youre spending on meltas/combi meltas. Get them there, use those meltas. If they live to turn two. All the better for more melta.
HEAVY SUPPORT:
Exorcist: Situational Armour 13. 3 Hull points. BS 4. 6++ save. S8 AP 1 missiles with a huge range. They have the longest range in the army by a HUGE margin and a powerful main weapon. These are your fire support units. They're good and only 125 points. Still the only thing that stops them from being a must take (and I've taken 2 in every Sisters game I've EVER played with one exception so believe me on this one) is the fact that they get a random number of shots. Heavy: D6. They WILL fail you at an important moment. Nothing worse than rolling a one on the number of shots you get. Still, with decent rolling they can murder most light to mid vehicle or kill a few terminators from time to time. I wouldn't have them be your lynch pin unit as they are too random but if everything comes together, they kill things. This also makes them a huge fire magnet. Anyone who gets a squad wiped by one of these will make them a prime target. That can be useful too as it pulls fire from your more delicate units.
Penitent Engine: Useless Okay, maybe Situational but probably not. Cheaper than a dreadnought but also more delicate than one. We all know the trouble Dreds have in the current rule set. BS2 but that's okay, they have 2! Heavy Flamers. Functions like a mini Furioso as it ignores the effects of crew shaken/stunned and has Rage. Not bad for 80 points but. Ugh. Front armour 11 and a 6++ don't do well on a melee only foot unit that also looks like a massive, massive target. Take in a squad of three (yeah, squads) and run them at someone to either draw fire or kill a few things. Used that way it might be good but they're too delicate to really count on. Their main issue is the fact that they compete for a slot against the Avenger strike fighter (not reviewed), the Exorcist and the Retributors (Below) and my 3 HS slots are always filled up with a combination of those things
Retributor Squad: Situational Act of Faith: Rending, shooting More Battle sisters. Same stats. Same everything. But like Dominons there's one key difference. They can take FOUR heavy weapons in a squad. They're limited - like all battle sisters - to bigger versions of the holy trinity. (Bolter, melta, flamer) but 4 Rending H. Bolters isn't bad. 4 Rending H. Flamers hopping out against a clustered enemy will kill most things. (I once wiped out an 11 man blood angel assault squad - WITH feel no pain - when they deep struck right next to me using just these 5 girls) I don't think I've ever seen anyone ever take the Melta guns as rending meltas are useless and, if you're only going to get one use of your act of faith, you may as well not waste it.
SQUAD UPGRADES:
Simulacrum Imperialis: Situational ALL battle sisters can take this (with the exception of Seraphim and Repentia) it allows the squad to use their act of faith Twice a game. (3 times with Jacobus) Really good for some squads. (Large Battle Sister squads or Retributors) but wasted on others (Smalls squads, Dominons - who WILL die before turn two) so sprinkle where you see fit.
DEDICATED TRANSPORTS:
Rhino: Situational Whats to say about a Rhino? It's 5 points more expensive but gains a 6++ invulnerable save. Still, not amazing and I think Sisters have better choices.
Immolators: Must take A razor back. A 60 point razor back with a 6++ save. WITH Twin-linked Multi Meltas. (Or Heavy flamers - Or heavy bolters but don't take them) Sisters of battle do MSU arguably better than ANY army in the game. Most squads will be run at 5 women strong. So you can take nothing but Immolators with BSS, Rets, Doms and throw in a priest for good fun. If you run full armoured - like I do - you'll run between 3-6 of these with Exorcists backing them up. Maybe a bit of an armoured coffin but it works well with the Sisters and is the best choice for transport.
I think its important to mention that the BSS can also take double special weapons, which is something that every Marine army ever except Wolves complains about not being able to do.
war wrote: The funny thing about it is that the only thing that I can think of that would do a better job at the Stompa stomping would be terminators with chain fists (S4 base). On the charge, the Repentia have more attacks! and the strength D kills terminators about as fast as repentia.
Course, getting them into combat is a bit of a trick.
Ork Tankbustas are probably the other notable unit. Every model is equipped with melta-bombs and a Rokkit. Obviously Repentia have more attacks, but Tankbustas get S8 AP1 Melta vs S6 AP2 Armourbane in close combat, a S8 AP3 shooting attack and most critically Fast, Open-Topped transports to get them where they need to be.
I don't think exo's are situational. I think they are mandatory
Yes they have random shots but they are better then the rest of the stuff in our HS slot and once your FA slots are filled you are going to need dump your points into something else.
pretre wrote: Yeah, Doms and Exos are mandatory. Uriah/Celestine are mandatory. BSS are mandatory.
Everything else is situational to useless.
Depending on your allies I don't at all think Celestine and Uriah are mandatory.
Celestine is decent but at t3 she's pretty squishy. In a pure MSU list I would rather take a Canoness with a combi melta and take my chances rolling on command.
Uriah has his uses but in a pure MSU list (which sisters do very well) I'd rather take another BSS squad than a 100 point hq.
pretre wrote: Yeah, Doms and Exos are mandatory. Uriah/Celestine are mandatory. BSS are mandatory.
Everything else is situational to useless.
Depending on your allies I don't at all think Celestine and Uriah are mandatory.
Celestine is decent but at t3 she's pretty squishy. In a pure MSU list I would rather take a Canoness with a combi melta and take my chances rolling on command.
Uriah has his uses but in a pure MSU list (which sisters do very well) I'd rather take another BSS squad than a 100 point hq.
He's 25 more than your canoness with combi. That's not another bss.
Yes, but if you don't take Jacobus, you have to take the Canoness, and the Canoness as you describe her is 75... so you're only saving 25 points, not 100.
Furyou Miko wrote: Yes, but if you don't take Jacobus, you have to take the Canoness, and the Canoness as you describe her is 75... so you're only saving 25 points, not 100.
In a pure sister's list I don't think Uriah is awful, I just don't think he is a must take. Being able to roll for a warlord trait is under rarted.
A 5++ invol. for one squad isn't great in msu. You can run a 20 woman squad but why bother? The 12" fearless bubble is nice but if you get charged you want your squad to die so you can shoot at what charged you.
I've pretty much accepted the fact that when I'm playing sisters I'm going to give up warlord and try to time her death to make the most out of martyrdom.
I agree with you really, your maths was just off. I almost always use a Canoness. Two, in larger games. One to be the Warlord and one to fight... and yeah, Strategic warlord traits. The Sororitas ones are only okay. Better than the 6e rulebook traits, but nothing on the 7th ones.
Finally got my first game with Sisters in (aside from a small part in a big Apoc battle). It was a pretty casual 2000pt game, Sisters vs Vostroyan Guard, playing the Scouring on Hammer & Anvil deployment. I had Celestine, Jacobus, 2 Priests, 10 Repentia (I had to see just how bad they were for myself), 3x 5 Sisters in Rhinos, 5x Flamer Seraphim, 2x Melta Doms in Rhinos and 2x Exorcists. I also had some Space Wolves, but they were just a minimal amount in order to buy a Land Raider for the Repentia. The Guard player had 3 Russes (with Pask in an Executioner), 2 Basilisks and a Manticore, plus a Vendetta, 2 Armoured Sentinels, a CCS and 2 Vet Squads.
Cons: The Guard player's dice were on fire, he must have missed maybe 5 scatter rolls all game (and 3 of those were in one volley from Pask), so I was getting blown to bits. The Repentia were basically in their ideal setup (in a Land Raider, with Jacobus and a Rune Priest for support), but they still ended up being almost useless due to their excessive fragility - they just killed a Chimera and then died horribly over the next couple turns. I'm just gonna run them as Death Cult Assassins from here on out. :(
Pros: Dominions though were AWESOME, as expected. I outflanked them, but didn't end up on the board edge I needed to (still killed a ton of stuff though). A comms relay seems like it could be useful, but odds are that you'll get the side you want most of the time so I probably will just make due without it. I also LOVE shield of faith ( THE EMPEROR PROTECTS )!!! I saved so many vehicles with it and it helped my infantry every once in a while as well. Celestine was a monster, although T3 is a massive achilles heel. MSU also worked extremely well for me - I was getting annihilated for most of the game, but had so many troops with Objective Secured that I managed to win 12-2 (4/3/3VPs for objectives, 1VP for killing the Sentinels and 1VP for Linebreaker, vs 1VP for First Blood and 1VP for Warlord; I contested the other 2 objectives because, again, MSU is awesome).
The rest: The Seraphim were okay, but they felt like overkill vs Guard. They did almost survive a whole round of AP2 shooting from Pask, though, which would have been impressive. Also, I know Exorcists are quite good, but mine were rolling kind of poorly, didn't have any good targets (too much AV14 front armour) and one of them got immobilized on Turn 1 behind a ruin. Next time I'll be sure to triple-up.
Anyway, all-in-all, I'm really liking the army and enjoyed this bit of practice. Pretty much all of this analysis is probably obvious to all you seasoned Sisters players, but to a novitiate like me it was good to get out on the field and put your advice to the test.
pretre wrote: Exorcists are great for side shots since they can maneuver. Thanks for the report!
No prob, and yeah, being able to maneuver was a nice perk but the Hammer & Anvil deployment type and the enemy's gunline style gameplay kind of screwed that up for me. I'd kill for a detachment that allows Sisters to outflank units though.
pretre wrote: Exorcists are great for side shots since they can maneuver. Thanks for the report!
No prob, and yeah, being able to maneuver was a nice perk but the Hammer & Anvil deployment type and the enemy's gunline style gameplay kind of screwed that up for me. I'd kill for a detachment that allows Sisters to outflank units though.
This is why I make a BSS sergeant my warlord. The strategic table is too good to pass on in most match ups.
pretre wrote: Yeah, Doms and Exos are mandatory. Uriah/Celestine are mandatory. BSS are mandatory.
Everything else is situational to useless.
Depending on your allies I don't at all think Celestine and Uriah are mandatory.
Celestine is decent but at t3 she's pretty squishy. In a pure MSU list I would rather take a Canoness with a combi melta and take my chances rolling on command.
Uriah has his uses but in a pure MSU list (which sisters do very well) I'd rather take another BSS squad than a 100 point hq.
Exos are only mandatory because of the other things in the HS slot. Only one of which is good (Rets) and one which is bad - okay (Penetance engine) If I could take 3 avenger strike fighters, I would. Probably. Exos really only work in the way Vindicators do; bullet magnets because they could do something 'in theory.' It's a weapon of fear, not a weapon of war.
Jacobus is a surprisingly solid warlord with a squad of Repentia. He's also okay in a 20 girl squad but I'm not really sure what you do with that. Other than really, really, hold one objective.
Rynner wrote: Whats stopping you from taking 3x Strike fighters?
Unless I missed it you can take 3.
You can indeed, but it's a question of alternatives. If you list 3 Avengers, what long range firepower do you have on Turn 1? Turn 2?
Double-CAD might really work though
Celtic Strike wrote: So I posted a report on the Sisters of battle over on the 'Rate my codex' thread. I did a review of the codex back at the beginning of 6th so it's based on that. Still, I thought I post it here to see if you guys agree with my assessment
How i would change it:
HQ: Saint Celestine: Must take (A) Jacobus: Must take (B) Cannoness: Situational Command squad: Situational Priest: Must take Battle conclave: Situational
TROOPS: Battle Sister Squads: Situational
ELITES: Celestines: Useless Repentia: Situational
FAST ATTACK: Seraphim: Situational Dominons: Must take
HEAVY SUPPORT: Exorcist:Must take Penitent Engine: Useless Retributor Squad: Situational
SQUAD UPGRADES: Simulacrum Imperialis: Situational Vehicle Laud hailer: Situational Litanies of Faith: Must take
Could go into details as required, but for a quick explanation: -Jacobus is basically a must if you don't take celestine (so the A or B). My celestine has not played in many a game now - Exorcists are a must, we have no other long range firepower, unless... - You take a Bastion with Command Squad (5 Heavy Bolters) and/or Retributor Squad with Canoness mounting the Quad gun / Icarus Las. This combo IS powerful - Immos are must take for dominions, but not for BSS where firing out of a Rhino can be much better (therefore situational). -BSS are a tax, so must take, but situational in terms of army list (you may just go for the min 2)
so here is the sisters list I'll be testing out for the killadelphia open...
Uriah (warlord) 100
2 priests (1 litanies) (2 powermaul) 95
St Celestine 135
20 sisters with bolters 240
6 sisters 72
5 seraphim with 2 with 2 melta pistols 135
5 seraphim with 2 with 2 melta pistols 135
Exorcist 125
Exorcist 125
Exorcist 125
firestorm redoubt with magos machine spirit, extra lascannon 265
xenos inq (level 1) liberous herisus, 3 servo skulls, Power armor 82
coteaz 100
3 jokero and a pysker 115
The inquisition allies add psyker defense (dice to roll!!!) and let my jacobus blob scout....
The prime thing people tend to do vs an exorcist heavy list is to reserve... so coteaz's "i've been expecting you" and the redoubt + extra icarus on intercept mode should help some. Why an extra icarus vs the quad gun? Since the extra icarus must be wholley within 6 inches of the redoubt the range matched....
Why seraphim vs dominions.... this was a tough choice.... While scouting dominions have served me well in the past... so many people go for null deployment or play around them that i found its better to go with a deep striking surgical strike... that said... gotta go ballsy with the deep strikes for them to do work.
redoubt... is for the damned flyrants that rip us appart... sisters used to be the best anti big bug army... but now we gotta bring things to shoot them down....
On the psyker side... divination rocks at twin linking exorcists and jokero units... scryers gaze for better chance of good objectives in mysterious objectives... or if facing demons... you gotta take a chance and roll on santic for spells to deal with the deamons.
Company Command Squad: Captain + 4 veterans, master of ordnance, lascannon (100 points)
Veteran Squad: Sergeant + 9 veterans, 3x plasma rifle, Chimera APC with heavy flamer (170 points)
Vendetta (170 points)
Wyvern Battery with 2x Wyverns (130 points)
Total Points: 1850
My opponents this weekend included an Adamantium Lance with AM allies, AV13 spam Necrons using the old book, 2x Eldar armies with Lynxes, Tyrants with 7x FMCs, and a green tide orc army. I'll post their lists and summaries as the week goes on.
My initial unit grades:
Celestine: B+. She's great in some matchups and not so hot in others. Her ability to bully opposing troop units with S5 or less is irreplaceable in the Codex, however, and so I don't see her going anywhere. She also comically failed her act of faith one game while in range of a laud hailer.
BSS squads: C+. OBSEC is great but not much else for damage potential. Going down to 5 girls made them much less resilient than before when they were at 10 but I badly needed the extra firepower from a third dominion squad.
Dominion squads: A. These girls are gold. The squad in the Vendetta was exceptionally useful. The ability to drop 5 ignore cover melta gun shots anywhere on the table in the mid stages of the game is amazing.
Exorcists: B. The random shots hurt sometimes, but mostly opposing vehicles were in cover or on a skyshield landing pad which made it hard for a pen to sneak through. The 48" range is irreplaceable in the army though and it allowed for a lot of tactical options during the game, especially deployment. Also really helped when dealing with VSG armies.
CCS: C-. Master of Ordnance is so random, he barely hits but when he does it hurts like a ton of bricks. I find myself needing the threat of a large blast AP3 barrage though. I'm going to tweak this squad and see what I can do.
Veterans: C+. Same as battle sisters. The higher damage output from plasma is negated by the 5+ armor.
Vendetta: B/B+. The lascannons are actually really good on him and the ability to spot dominions in the mid-game was money. Having only one flyer hurts, but at 170 points I'm not sure what I'd be willing to drop to get a second one.
Wyverns: A+. Twin-linked, barrage 8, ignore cover, shred. Need I say more? Nasty the entire tournament against virtually every opponent. Also provides ranged anti-infantry the Sisters codex sorely lacks.
Celtic Strike wrote: Exos really only work in the way Vindicators do; bullet magnets because they could do something 'in theory.' It's a weapon of fear, not a weapon of war.
Umm, no. Exorcists are a solid AV13 platform that does good work against a variety of targets.
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PanzerLeader wrote: So here is the list I toke to the LVO. I'll probably be taking something extremely similar to the Killadelphia Open in May.
Spoiler:
Order of Our Lady of Aquitaine (Adepta Sororitas Combined Arms Detachment)
Saint Celestine (135 points)
Battle Sister Squad: Sister Superior [WARLORD] + 4 sisters, flamer, heavy flamer, Rhino APC (115 points)
Battle Sister Squad: Sister Superior + 4 sisters, flamer, heavy flamer, Rhino APC (115 points)
Dominion Squad: Veteran Sister Superior + 4 sisters, 4x meltagun, combi-melta, melta bombs, Immolator APC with twin-linked multi-melta, dozer blades and laud hailers (205 points)
Dominion Squad: Veteran Sister Superior + 4 sisters, 4x meltagun, combi-melta, melta bombs, Immolator APC with twin-linked multi-melta, dozer blades and laud hailers (205 points)
Dominion Squad: Veteran Sister Superior + 4 sisters, 4x meltagun, combi-melta, melta bombs (130 points)
Company Command Squad: Captain + 4 veterans, master of ordnance, lascannon (100 points)
Veteran Squad: Sergeant + 9 veterans, 3x plasma rifle, Chimera APC with heavy flamer (170 points)
Vendetta (170 points)
Wyvern Battery with 2x Wyverns (130 points)
Total Points: 1850
My opponents this weekend included an Adamantium Lance with AM allies, AV13 spam Necrons using the old book, 2x Eldar armies with Lynxes, Tyrants with 7x FMCs, and a green tide orc army. I'll post their lists and summaries as the week goes on.
My initial unit grades:
Celestine: B+. She's great in some matchups and not so hot in others. Her ability to bully opposing troop units with S5 or less is irreplaceable in the Codex, however, and so I don't see her going anywhere. She also comically failed her act of faith one game while in range of a laud hailer.
BSS squads: C+. OBSEC is great but not much else for damage potential. Going down to 5 girls made them much less resilient than before when they were at 10 but I badly needed the extra firepower from a third dominion squad.
Dominion squads: A. These girls are gold. The squad in the Vendetta was exceptionally useful. The ability to drop 5 ignore cover melta gun shots anywhere on the table in the mid stages of the game is amazing.
Exorcists: B. The random shots hurt sometimes, but mostly opposing vehicles were in cover or on a skyshield landing pad which made it hard for a pen to sneak through. The 48" range is irreplaceable in the army though and it allowed for a lot of tactical options during the game, especially deployment. Also really helped when dealing with VSG armies.
CCS: C-. Master of Ordnance is so random, he barely hits but when he does it hurts like a ton of bricks. I find myself needing the threat of a large blast AP3 barrage though. I'm going to tweak this squad and see what I can do.
Veterans: C+. Same as battle sisters. The higher damage output from plasma is negated by the 5+ armor.
Vendetta: B/B+. The lascannons are actually really good on him and the ability to spot dominions in the mid-game was money. Having only one flyer hurts, but at 170 points I'm not sure what I'd be willing to drop to get a second one.
Wyverns: A+. Twin-linked, barrage 8, ignore cover, shred. Need I say more? Nasty the entire tournament against virtually every opponent. Also provides ranged anti-infantry the Sisters codex sorely lacks.
Great job! Thoughts on getting those rhinos to be Repressors? Seems like I'd rather have a cheap CCS in the Vendetta and the Doms on the ground. Having to drop the Vendetta out of flight is bad.
Company Command Squad: Captain + 4 veterans, master of ordnance, lascannon (100 points)
Veteran Squad: Sergeant + 9 veterans, 3x plasma rifle, Chimera APC with heavy flamer (170 points)
Vendetta (170 points)
Wyvern Battery with 2x Wyverns (130 points)
Total Points: 1850
My opponents this weekend included an Adamantium Lance with AM allies, AV13 spam Necrons using the old book, 2x Eldar armies with Lynxes, Tyrants with 7x FMCs, and a green tide orc army. I'll post their lists and summaries as the week goes on.
My initial unit grades:
Celestine: B+. She's great in some matchups and not so hot in others. Her ability to bully opposing troop units with S5 or less is irreplaceable in the Codex, however, and so I don't see her going anywhere. She also comically failed her act of faith one game while in range of a laud hailer.
BSS squads: C+. OBSEC is great but not much else for damage potential. Going down to 5 girls made them much less resilient than before when they were at 10 but I badly needed the extra firepower from a third dominion squad.
Dominion squads: A. These girls are gold. The squad in the Vendetta was exceptionally useful. The ability to drop 5 ignore cover melta gun shots anywhere on the table in the mid stages of the game is amazing.
Exorcists: B. The random shots hurt sometimes, but mostly opposing vehicles were in cover or on a skyshield landing pad which made it hard for a pen to sneak through. The 48" range is irreplaceable in the army though and it allowed for a lot of tactical options during the game, especially deployment. Also really helped when dealing with VSG armies.
CCS: C-. Master of Ordnance is so random, he barely hits but when he does it hurts like a ton of bricks. I find myself needing the threat of a large blast AP3 barrage though. I'm going to tweak this squad and see what I can do.
Veterans: C+. Same as battle sisters. The higher damage output from plasma is negated by the 5+ armor.
Vendetta: B/B+. The lascannons are actually really good on him and the ability to spot dominions in the mid-game was money. Having only one flyer hurts, but at 170 points I'm not sure what I'd be willing to drop to get a second one.
Wyverns: A+. Twin-linked, barrage 8, ignore cover, shred. Need I say more? Nasty the entire tournament against virtually every opponent. Also provides ranged anti-infantry the Sisters codex sorely lacks.
Thanks for the update Panzer, and I'm especially looking forward to the batrep/summaries. Briefly, was the vendetta really enough AA to handle the various FMCs you faced? If I recall correctly your one loss was to eldar, rather than flyrant spam... so any tips for dealing with lists running 3-4-5 flyrants?
Rynner wrote: Whats stopping you from taking 3x Strike fighters?
Unless I missed it you can take 3.
You can indeed, but it's a question of alternatives. If you list 3 Avengers, what long range firepower do you have on Turn 1? Turn 2?
Double-CAD might really work though
Celtic Strike wrote: So I posted a report on the Sisters of battle over on the 'Rate my codex' thread. I did a review of the codex back at the beginning of 6th so it's based on that. Still, I thought I post it here to see if you guys agree with my assessment
Celtic Strike wrote: Exos really only work in the way Vindicators do; bullet magnets because they could do something 'in theory.' It's a weapon of fear, not a weapon of war.
Umm, no. Exorcists are a solid AV13 platform that does good work against a variety of targets.
I think if you are to reference my battle reports you will see that my Exorcists haven't killed anything since episode 2
I'm not a fan of video BRs so haven't watched them. I guess it's a different strokes for different folks kind of thing. My Exorcists do solid work all the time.
As far as playing it... I've done it a bunch. With the rerolls it does some serious work.... but with celestine there is NO need to take things down slowly. Hit and run out then come back and assault again
pretre wrote: Great job! Thoughts on getting those rhinos to be Repressors? Seems like I'd rather have a cheap CCS in the Vendetta and the Doms on the ground. Having to drop the Vendetta out of flight is bad.
I think the way I usually play the BSS squads the Rhinos are ok for them. I generally start them in reserve and move for objectives mid to late game after the rest of the army has removed some of the threats to them. The 18" move capability means even with a turn 4 entry they can usually get almost anywhere on the board. The front AV13 and the extra heavy flamer would be nice though. I'm just not sure where I'd get the 60 points to upgrade them from. The extra MM from the immolators where great all tournament so I think I'm going to leave my dominions set up as is.
The trick with the airborne dominions is that they can use the Vendetta's grav-chute rules. This lets you move up to 36" and remain in flight move, then deploy anywhere within 6" of the rear door as if by deep strike. Not as reliable as when you can go to hover, but 1/3 of the time you stick the landing so its generally an acceptable risk. If they scatter, they just take dangerous terrain which is negligible risk given power armor.
quiestdeus wrote:
Thanks for the update Panzer, and I'm especially looking forward to the batrep/summaries. Briefly, was the vendetta really enough AA to handle the various FMCs you faced? If I recall correctly your one loss was to eldar, rather than flyrant spam... so any tips for dealing with lists running 3-4-5 flyrants?
So my tactics against FMC spam is to ignore them while they are swooping. I generally try to spread the objectives as far across the board as possible and then spread my MSU out to the four winds. FMCs have relatively limited mobility while swooping because of the 90 degree turn restriction. I then focus on killing the enemy ground units because they tend to be pretty weedy. Wyverns are particularly good at this. Target priority is key. Start with their OBSEC units, then move to other ground scoring units. Keep your own units spread out so weapons like haywire flamers can't hit multiple vehicles and I also reserve all my OBSEC units for as long as possible. A rhino entering turn four can get 36" across the board by the end of turn five. The goal is to minimize the amount of time the FMCs can do damage from swoop. By spreading out, you can force them to reposition either by leaving the board (and losing a turn of firepower) or coming into glide (and making them vulnerable to mass dominions). Depending on mission and deployment, the dominions might try to alpha strike an FMC or two if I go first or they'll outflank and wait for an opportune moment to pounce.
I played a 4 flyrant, 3 hive crone list during the tournament and won on turn six by a score of 5-4. If the game had ended on turn 5 instead, I would have won 9-0. The only reason the primary was so close that he could steal it from me was because the mission was scouring and its hard to deny bonus points when you have 6 fast attack choices. I also played a pickup game against jy2's Pentyrant list, but I'll let his batrep tell the story.
As far as playing it... I've done it a bunch. With the rerolls it does some serious work.... but with celestine there is NO need to take things down slowly. Hit and run out then come back and assault again
Yeah, not to mention the rerolls make ANY good assault character a beast. You put a wolf lord or something in a unit with reroll hits, reroll saves and reroll wounds? Plus 20 something ablative wounds? Ugh. They just eat dudes for breakfast.
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PanzerLeader wrote: The extra MM from the immolators where great all tournament so I think I'm going to leave my dominions set up as is.
Keep in mind that Repressors have enough firepoints for all four meltas to fire out without exposing themselves to return fire. That's a big deal.
The trick with the airborne dominions is that they can use the Vendetta's grav-chute rules. This lets you move up to 36" and remain in flight move, then deploy anywhere within 6" of the rear door as if by deep strike. Not as reliable as when you can go to hover, but 1/3 of the time you stick the landing so its generally an acceptable risk. If they scatter, they just take dangerous terrain which is negligible risk given power armor.
Good call!
So my tactics against FMC spam is to ignore them while they are swooping. I generally try to spread the objectives as far across the board as possible and then spread my MSU out to the four winds. FMCs have relatively limited mobility while swooping because of the 90 degree turn restriction. I then focus on killing the enemy ground units because they tend to be pretty weedy. Wyverns are particularly good at this. Target priority is key. Start with their OBSEC units, then move to other ground scoring units. Keep your own units spread out so weapons like haywire flamers can't hit multiple vehicles and I also reserve all my OBSEC units for as long as possible. A rhino entering turn four can get 36" across the board by the end of turn five. The goal is to minimize the amount of time the FMCs can do damage from swoop. By spreading out, you can force them to reposition either by leaving the board (and losing a turn of firepower) or coming into glide (and making them vulnerable to mass dominions). Depending on mission and deployment, the dominions might try to alpha strike an FMC or two if I go first or they'll outflank and wait for an opportune moment to pounce.
I played a 4 flyrant, 3 hive crone list during the tournament and won on turn six by a score of 5-4. If the game had ended on turn 5 instead, I would have won 9-0. The only reason the primary was so close that he could steal it from me was because the mission was scouring and its hard to deny bonus points when you have 6 fast attack choices. I also played a pickup game against jy2's Pentyrant list, but I'll let his batrep tell the story.
This is great advice! Thank you.
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Rynner wrote: So heres what I'm probably going to run at Adepticon:
BA (flesh tearers)
Sang Priest, Auspex
2x 5 man Tacs, H. Flamer, drop pod
3x Assault squad, 2x Melta, drop pod
3x Drop pods
Iron Hands(Ally)
1x Libby
2x Tacs, flamer, drop pod
1x Assault Squad, 2x flamers drop pod
1x Sicaran, stock
Thoughts?
Why the third CADFOC? Seems like a waste of points to get the third CAD.
The Canoness is just a waste. Have you thought about the Sang Priest/Sang/Celestine combo? Someone was just posting about it.
I mean, I see what you're getting at (ob-sec overload), but it's not my kind of list.
The third ally slot is for ob sec drop pods. In pure maelstrom, if you can land on an objective your opponent has to deal with the 35 point drop pod to score that objective.
I don't find the canoness a waste at all. If I can get a 1 one command all my doms pass ignore cover on ld 10. If I get a 5 on command everything within 12 of the canoness gets to reroll ones when shooting.
I've thought about the sang/sang guard/celestine combo but I'm not sure what exactly to drop for it.
With warlord being worth one point in maelstrom giving it up isn't that big of a deal. Besides if you can time martyrdom properly it's a actually good mid game boost/shocker to some opponents.
The thing about Celestine is that no matter how nicely I ask she won't go in a drop pod. The earliest I'm getting that boost is t2 if I deep strike her. Depending on the deployment type the 12" bubble most likely won't hit the doms t1.
It never occurred to me to make a bss the warlord. Thats a good tip and in match ups when I don't really need to ignore cover with my melta guns I'll probably roll strategic on a bss or the sang priest.
Well, if you ally in someone with scout, Celestine could keep up with the Doms. Also keep in mind, if they both start in the same spot, doms scout 12", move 6", and disembark 6", Celestine can put them back into her bubble with a 12" move + a run.
Other uses for Uriah:
I kind of want to try a 9 sister Retributor unit with 4 heavy flamers, a simulacrum and Uriah. They will be rending up to 3 times, but I worry that enemies might just run away from them and shoot them from a distance. (Also maybe worth trying with rets in a bastion with a HB. 3 turns of rending with 5+ Heavy Bolters. As far as I can tell there's nothing preventing emplaced weapons fired by that squad also rending.)
Yeah, the guy threw in a metric ton of extra bits from his FLGS. I wanted to score one of the forgeworld repressor kits, but the shop that said they might still had one turned out not too :( No worries though, conversions ahoy!
So I had my second ever 1500-pt game of 7th edition not too long ago after a long hiatus, against a veteran Space Marine player. As I was rusty, and was still learning 7th, we agreed to play a standard objectives mission-- it was felt that Maelstrom would simply slow things down too much for a new player.
From memory, I was running:
Celestine
8 Battle Sisters- flamer, heavy flamer
-Rhino
8 Battle Sisters- flamer, heavy flamer
-Rhino
8 Battle Sisters- flamer, heavy flamer
-Rhino
8 Seraphim- 2 hand flamers, Superior w. melta bombs
5 Dominions- 4 meltas
-Immolator- twin-linked multi-melta
5 Dominions- 4 meltas
-Immolator- twin-linked multi-melta
6 Retributors- 4 heavy bolters
Exorcist
Exorcist
Aegis Defense Line- quad gun
He was running Iron Hands:
Master of the Forge- full servo harness
10 Tactical Marines- meltagun, missile launcher
-Rhino
10 Tactical Marines- plasma gun, lascannon
-Razorback- lascannon & twin-linked plasma gun
5 Legion of the Damned- meltagun, multi-melta, Sgt. w. combi-melta
5 Legion of the Damned- meltagun, multi-melta, Sgt. w. combi-melta
3 Centurion Devastators- grav-cannons, grav-amps Relic Sicarian- heavy bolter sponsons, Legacy of Mars
Relic Sicarian- heavy bolter sponsons
Imperial Bunker- ammo dump
Some highlights of the battle:
-I wound up going second, and the game started badly for me, with concentrated fire kiilling off my quad gun, and a Sicarian glancing one of my Exorcists to death on its front armour, while the other whittled down my Rets. In return, my Rhinos advanced cautiously, and my return fire did absolutely nothing.
-In the middle of the game, though, things heated up as our reserves arrived. He disembarked his full Tactical Squad in the centre to grab an objective, but then both my Dominions came in on the right and freemed his Rhino and one of his Sicarians. My surviving Exorcist later took out his last Sicarian as well.
-Meanwhile, my Seraphim and Celestine deep struck close to his rearguard combat squads hoping to flame them, but then scattered badly. They then attracted a lot firepower, but survived with 2 models after Celestine got back up again. They then proceeded to fly around and murder two combat squads with shooting and assault.
-In the centre, he disembarked his Tacticals and grabbed an objective. I responded by siccing two of my full Battle Sister squads on them and flaming/boltering them, but a handful of Marines survived. Then the Centurions proceeded to kill off most of a full Battle Squad in return, before additional fire wiped them out.
-His two Legion squad came in soon after my Dominions. One came in on the backfield and blew up both Immolators, while the other came down and tried to grab the objective closest to my DZ. They managed to kill my last Exorcist before my third Battle Squad shot them to death.
-By the game's end, the Centurions were killing anything that tried to grab the centre objective, and at one point disembarked their bunker to freem down Celestine and her last girls. My other squad of Dominions managed to badly damage the bunker, but were soon freemed in return. In the end, we each had an objective, and he managed to drive his badly-damaged Razorback up, kill both my functional Rhinos, and grab the centre objective. My Rets, sadly, failed to glance it in the last turn, and I lost 3-1. By the game's end, I had a full Battle Squad and 3 Rets, while he had his Warlord, 2 Centurions, a Legion Squad and a Razorback.
So, after this outing, I should ask:
1. Deepstriking Seraphim + Celestine: given the amount of firepower in the meta now, is this no longer a good idea?
2. Centurions in bunkers: how do I deal with them?
3. Given that I have to resolve wounds from one flamer template at a time, should I switch to meltas + heavy flamers on my BSS now?
Incidentally, I'm seriously considering trading the Rets + Aegis line for an Avenger Strike Fighter.
1) Deepstriking is never, imo, a good idea. You want her on the table taking fire from turn one.
2) Bunkers are melta bait. Dominions.
3) I run 2 flamers or Flamer/melta in my BSS.
Rets and Aegis are a bad idea. If you're going to do that, go Rets and Bastion. It gets you additional Heavy Bolters.
pretre wrote: 1) Deepstriking is never, imo, a good idea. You want her on the table taking fire from turn one.
2) Bunkers are melta bait. Dominions.
3) I run 2 flamers or Flamer/melta in my BSS.
Rets and Aegis are a bad idea. If you're going to do that, go Rets and Bastion. It gets you additional Heavy Bolters.
See, I deepstruck Celestine + the Seraphs in part because they would be a big fire magnet close to his lines (he dedicated more than half of his army's firepower at them). Plus, I wanted them to get close as close to his lines as soon as possible and, hopefully, land close enough to wipe something out with multiple shredding flamer templates. In hindsight, maybe separating Celestine from the Seraphs and sending her off on her own might work in future.
Otherwise, I agree with you on the Bastion. It means I cover less of my DZ and don't have to worry about accidentally blocking off my Rhinos with the wall.
pretre wrote: Keep in mind that with a Bastion, you get 1-2 extra HB to rend and, if you take it, a rending quad-gun. That's not bad.
Very good point, I should definitely invest in a bastion then. Also, re: this
2) Bunkers are melta bait. Dominions.
That was what I was originally going for, but my opponent anticipated this and managed to kill off/waylay my Dominions before they could reach melta range. It didn't help that he had placed his bunker in a central position far from the table edges. If I had been going first, then I would have tried scouting up both Dominion groups to suicide the bunker nice and early, but that would have left me with fewer options to deal with his Sicarians.
Not that I'm complaining too much. For a first game in 7th against a decent SM list, I still managed to kill off most of his stuff.
We had a rather hilarious game tonight, a 4 player, 2v2 100pts each.
My list comprised the following:
Saint Celestine
2x (9 Sisters, Sim, SS, CW(melta), MB, melta, melta)
2x (Priest, MB)
5 Dominions, MB, 5 SB 5 seraphim, SS, MB-90
5 Ret, 2 HF 6 Ret, Sim, 4HB, SS Penitent engine
It seems rather schizophrenic, but that was more due to the fact that I had placed one of my foam trays somewhere unreachable, which limited my options.
We decided to leave it open as to whether Unbound and multi-CAD, so a Bound Guard list with 3 tanks and some infantry, an Unbound Tyranid list of 3 Tyrants (no wings, ML) and a Trygon, and a 30K Iron Warriors list of a Spartan Assault Tank, Tyrant Siege Terminators and Golg (something close to that).
Guard and 30K teamed up, and I got the Tyranids. I keep Celestine and the Seraphim in reserves, and he kept his Trygon off the table. They went first.
T1 the Spartan blew up the Penitent, and scattered casualties occurred among the Sisters. A few wounds came off the Tyrants.
Come our turn, it was fairly standard advance, the SB Dominions and HB Rets killed off a few Guardsmen, but nothing major.
T2 saw the loss of the HF Rets, and a few more scattered casualties, including a Tryant. A few more guardsmen died in return. Celestine and the Seraphim failed to enter, the Trygon did and glanced a Russ.
T3 the Terminator squad bailed from the Spartan, and killed most of my 9 girl squad, then failed their charge against the SB Dominions (Splitfire). Celestine+Seraphim entered, landing near the Spartan and Tyrant Siege Terminators (for fun, we wanted a quick game) and killed 2 after AOF. The SB Dominions charged the Spartan, and failed to do anything with the MB (double 1's on Penetration). The other 9 girl squad charged a Russ, and tore it apart. HB Rets killed more Guard.
T4 the Terminators destroyed the Seraphim and killed Celestine, before charging the SB Dom's (Splitfire again), wiping them. The Spartan killed the last of my 9 girl squad The last 2 Tyrants died to melt and plasma from the Guard. My other 9 girl squad charged and killed another Russ.
T5 they wiped out my 9 girl quad, and left 3 in the HB squad. The Spartan immobilised itself (ha, dozer blade didn't help that time). Celestine got back up, and jump packed over to the Russ the Trygon glanced, and tore it apart in CC.
T6 Celestine died to a melt shot (T3 sucks) and the Terminators destroyed the building my 3 Rets were standing on, causing 18 S6 wounds. Amazingly, 1 survived, before dying to a bolter shot. That being my last model, Game Over.
I was honestly surprised at how well my Sisters did. The 9 girl+priest squad is my standard troop load out, and always does well, but I was amazed I lasted that long, and scored as much as we did.
Still, we aren't keen on mixing Bound and Unbound again unless pre-agreed, but it was a blast.
AM Allied Detachment
Company Command Squad, Master of Ordnance
Platoon Command Squad, Melta Gun
3x Infantry Squad, Grenade Launcher, Mortar Team
Saber Battery, 3x Lascannon
Saber Battery, 3x Autocannon
Vendetta
The Mission
Spoiler:
The LVO format has a total of 10 points available. 4 for winning the primary mission, 3 for winning the modified Maelstorm (a d6 chart that changes slightly in each round), and 1 each for first blood, line breaker, and warlord. Whoever has the most points at the end of the game wins.
Primary: Emperor’s Will
Secondary: Maelstorm
Deployment Type: Dawn of War
Game Summary
Spoiler:
I won the roll to go first and deployed centrally, with the dominions spread about 18 inches apart at the top of my deployment zone across from my opponent’s emperor’s will objective. I spread the exorcists across the board, planning on using the 48” range to flank the knights from range. I started my BSS squad in reserves and placed the wyverns centrally where they could hit the entire board and claim some cover from a hill. Celestine went in the middle close to the center LOS blocking terrain.
My opponent placed his knights in a rough line directly across from the dominions and left his blob squad and the autocannon battery guarding his emperor’s will. His lascannon battery and command squad went on my left in a small ruin. I scouted the dominions forward and my opponent failed to seize.
Turn One: I moved the dominions forward and disembarked. The girls flanked the warlord knight, with 5 meltas and an immolator in the left flank and 5 meltas and an immolator to the front. One exorcist moved up the far side and ended up in the right flank of the warlord knight while the other two stayed in the front of multiple knights. Celestine moved up behind the LOS blocking terrain. My opponent declared his shields, with the warlord knight putting his 3++ rerollable towards the dominions in the side. My wyverns shot the CCS squad to hell for First Blood. The exorcist in the flank and the dominions to the front killed the warlord knight, who scattered into the autocannon sabers and killed two of them in the explosion along with some guardsmen from the blob squad. The remaining exorcists and dominions managed to strip some hull points off a 2nd knight with the 4++ rerollable in his front.
The adlance responded by assaulting and killing the two dominion squads with a knight each but the rest of his shooting did nothing.
Turn Two: The vendetta with the last dominion squad arrived, but stayed on the far right to avoid his intercepting lascannons and set up for a turn 3 or 4 melta strike. The immolators moved to the rear and flank of one knight with the exorcists covering the other flank and the front. Celestine moved up to within an inch of the blob squad. My shooting killed another knight (he never got to use his invulnerable as I shot the no save sides first) and in the assault, Celestine charged the blob squad and managed to kill only a single guardsmen. His three guardsmen in range to strike whiffed and he promptly failed the LD6 test and got swept down.
The adlance vendetta failed to arrive and my opponents shooting only managed to shake a single immolator. The last knight failed a long charge (~9”) against Celestine.
Turn Three: Celestine moved within assault range of the lascannon battery and the vendetta dropped to hover. With his last knight encircled and his lascannons facing imminent death from Celestine, my opponent conceded during my movement phase. He would have been left with only a single autocannon team and a vendetta at the end of the turn and didn’t have the resources left to threaten my units on his objective or even pretend to take mine.
pretre wrote: I'm not a fan of video BRs so haven't watched them. I guess it's a different strokes for different folks kind of thing. My Exorcists do solid work all the time.
Mine do well too, but I will agree with some that the IDEA of them, their range, their point-cost, etc... are almost better than the work they actually do.
In competitive gaming, many successful players try to mitigate randomness as much as possible, and maximize predictability. As such, adding a whole extra random roll to your shooting means the dice gods can render great strength and great BS, moot.
If they cost any more... even a bit more, or if the book honestly had more/more viable choices, you would see their popularity drop wayyyy off.
Well, to be fair, they did cost just a bit more only one iteration ago. They also used to only be AP3. The need for long ranged shooting in the list means that even with their randomness and cost, they have always (since they were added in 3rd) been the best choice for that slot.
pretre wrote: Well, to be fair, they did cost just a bit more only one iteration ago. They also used to only be AP3. The need for long ranged shooting in the list means that even with their randomness and cost, they have always (since they were added in 3rd) been the best choice for that slot.
Which is 100% true. I just mean that says more to the lack of other options than how good/great they are.
I'm not sure they're better than some Russ variants even if those are more expensive and as a vehicle killer they are easily outperformed by a relic sicaran in most situations.
Mavnas wrote: I'm not sure they're better than some Russ variants even if those are more expensive and as a vehicle killer they are easily outperformed by a relic sicaran in most situations.
Well yeah.
Leman Russes are more expensive and in a completely different platform/army list. If you could take Leman Russes in marine or sob armies, you probably would. And of course a relic sicaran is going to be better in a lot of situations. You can also only take one without jumping through hoops.
Mavnas wrote: Sure, they're better than some comparable units, but I'm still unclear on what targets they counter.
They add desperately needed ranged anti-tank and anti-heavy infantry for cheap. Crisis suits, wraithknights, riptides, broad sides, and MCs of all types tend to not like exorcists. AP1 makes them great against all AV12 vehicles and below too.
They score an average of 2 hits. They're unimpressive vs heavy infantry, unless you catch them in the open, they have no invulnerable, or S8 is instant death to multiwound or FNP things. Crisis suits and broadsides would be prime targets if they've lost their drones, otherwise... meh?
Vs. AV12, you get a 1/9th chance at an Explodes x2? Again, nit great.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I've very much come to prefer volume of fire vs. Heavy infantry simply because it means not caring about their cover/invulnerable saves.
Mavnas wrote: They score an average of 2 hits. They're unimpressive vs heavy infantry, unless you catch them in the open, they have no invulnerable, or S8 is instant death to multiwound or FNP things. Crisis suits and broadsides would be prime targets if they've lost their drones, otherwise... meh?
Vs. AV12, you get a 1/9th chance at an Explodes x2? Again, nit great.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I've very much come to prefer volume of fire vs. Heavy infantry simply because it means not caring about their cover/invulnerable saves.
Not great compared to what?
A multimelta has the exact same odds of exploding vehicles when shooting between 12.1 and 24 inches. The exorcist can shoot from 48. Nothing else in the Sisters codex is as good at shooting armor at range and for 125 points its a great value buy.
Against heavy infantry in cover, its still good. Making a TEQ roll on a cover or invulnerable save instead of armor and against S8 is huge. Looking at the next closest thing in the codex for ranged anti-infantry, you can get 4 sisters with heavy bolters for 100 points.
Against a TEQ, the HB sisters do an average of ~1 wound after saves (12 shots, 8 hits, ~7 wounds, ~1 failed save). The exorcist with 3 shots does about the same ~1 wound, but as you noted the S8 negates FNP and causes ID against a TEQ. And the HB sisters have to be within range of most TEQ units to shoot, the exorcist does not. The exorcist also has the potential to shoot 6 shots and in a dice game, potential counts during army selection.
Yeah I'll have to echo the comments that Exorcists are amazing. Yes they can whiff, roll a 1 and only get a single shot (which then fails to hit). Or they could roll a 6, hit with all 6 and wipe out an entire unit of 2+ save Elites. The mere threat of that is sometimes enough to swing the battle in your favour. With a 48" range making it difficult to stay out of the threatzone, it's often just enough simply to make your opponent to make bad choices in where he moves his units.
All that for only 125 points, and on an AV13 chassis with a 6++. It's amazing value.
Mavnas wrote: They score an average of 2 hits. They're unimpressive vs heavy infantry, unless you catch them in the open, they have no invulnerable, or S8 is instant death to multiwound or FNP things. Crisis suits and broadsides would be prime targets if they've lost their drones, otherwise... meh?
Vs. AV12, you get a 1/9th chance at an Explodes x2? Again, nit great.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I've very much come to prefer volume of fire vs. Heavy infantry simply because it means not caring about their cover/invulnerable saves.
Not great compared to what?
A multimelta has the exact same odds of exploding vehicles when shooting between 12.1 and 24 inches. The exorcist can shoot from 48. Nothing else in the Sisters codex is as good at shooting armor at range and for 125 points its a great value buy.
Against heavy infantry in cover, its still good. Making a TEQ roll on a cover or invulnerable save instead of armor and against S8 is huge. Looking at the next closest thing in the codex for ranged anti-infantry, you can get 4 sisters with heavy bolters for 100 points.
Against a TEQ, the HB sisters do an average of ~1 wound after saves (12 shots, 8 hits, ~7 wounds, ~1 failed save). The exorcist with 3 shots does about the same ~1 wound, but as you noted the S8 negates FNP and causes ID against a TEQ. And the HB sisters have to be within range of most TEQ units to shoot, the exorcist does not. The exorcist also has the potential to shoot 6 shots and in a dice game, potential counts during army selection.
Yeah, but if that TEQ has a SS, suddenly the Exorcist is useless against it. My point isn't that you can take something better out of the Sister's Codex, it's that we're exalting the virtues of a unit that's merely good because we lack an excellent choice, and the HB Sisters will be better at chewing up an enemy backfield objective camping unit in cover (which saves me having to send my short range weapons 12-24" in one direction then the same distance back into the fight).
6 S8 AP1 shots vs. AV. 12 gives you an average of 2 damage, and 36% chance of an Explodes. (So, in the best case scenario, it's basically a coin flip.)
The HB squad strips an average of 1.2 HP with its Rending, which is somewhat similar to rolling a 3 on your number of shots.
My point is that we don't have an amazing long-range fire support unit and the exorcist's "best" targets are also our dom's best targets so it doesn't really fill as much a hole in our lineup as say an allied TFC or Wyverns would. The Tri-las pred is at least more reliable, though you lose the satisfaction of rolling a 6 on the attacks number and no 6++.
Rets can only do that twice. And they are unprotected unless you make them take a fort. Don't get me wrong; I like bastion hb rets, but the exorcist is still a better choice most of the time.
(Rets with simulacrum are what... 122? So same as exo.
Exo has better mobility, defense and survivability. Rets have better rate of fire.)
My point is that while the exo might be better, it makes your army even more one dimensional, which is kind of our problem to start with.
The HB rets are also capable of shooting down weak AV11 fliers given enough time. The exo could get lucky, but on average you're only going to get a hit every two turns, and only half of those will pen. (Though if your opponent is intimidated into jinking... that's a thing.)
I find exorcists get overestimated and HB rets get underestimated. This means HB rets generally don't need that much protection because most of the rest of your army will be higher on most people's target priority list. Exorcists are the opposite unless he's got no deep strike/long range anti-armor (in which case they are pretty amazing).
Except HB rets don't need dedicated anything to take out if they are in the open. Anything kills T3 infantry.
I mean, agree to disagree, I guess.
I like HB rets, but they require more points to play well than an exorcist.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I think where HB rets shine is when you have to take a fort for one reason or another (comm relay or anti-air). Then they are a great solution for manning that fort.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Is that 'buy one sister' thing still on the calendar? Showed up in Outlook for next week and confused the crap out of me until I figured out what my abbreviation meant.
Yeah, what day is that supposed to be? I just realized the other day that I'm missing a Seraphim, so I'm probably gonna order one... maybe a couple Jokaero or something as well.
I am contacting you in regards to my recent order of an Adepta Sororitas model.
First of all, I do apologise for the high amount of administration work this has probably caused. Secondly, I do not expect a delivery of the model if the stocks have been emptied as a result, but would greatly appreciate a refund if this is the case and if it is within your means.
Lastly I would explain the reason for this purchase: I am an earnest collector of Adepta Sororitas models, and have been waiting for an update to this Faction for some time now. This purchase shows my interest in this range of models, and shows that an Update, or simply more attention to this Faction would bring me great joy.
In regards to Exorcists, I must confess to sitting in the 'Not sure it's epic' camp.
Personally, I'd rather take a larger chunk of points and ally in Elysians or Dark Angels (mainly 'cause I have them) and taking something like DWK, Vendetta's or Predators.
pretre wrote: Nicely done. Ad Lance, not something that SOB are afraid of.
Not at all. I'd be happy drawing AdLance every game.
Yes, I loved this batrep. "And then the knight exploded on his troops... and the other knight died... and the other knight."
Knights were the new hotness for a while, but with our proliferation of S:8 AP:1 and melta, for Sisters it was always more like
KNIGHT WARLORD: Tremble, you foolish little girls, as the earth itself shakes beneath our titanic feet!
EXPERIENCED KNIGHT: Wait, sir, did you say "little girls"? Do you mean we're fighting Sist....
SISTERS ARMY: zzzzapzzzapzzzap whooshKABOOOM whooshKABOOM zzzzapzzap
DYING KNIGHT: Ow.
SISTER KORIANDER: Hey, it's only Turn 3, we can still make it to Starbucks before they run out of croissants.
SISTER RAVEN: You're buying.
SISTER KORIANDER: Hey!
DYING KNIGHT: [dies]
Something of a random thought, we fairly regularly have discussions about Repentia and Penitent Engines, but has anyone run a 10 girl squad of Rets? No heavy weapons, maybe HF, just bolters and forward. Seems horrible nasty. I realise that it seems completely counter-intuitive, and doesn't make the most of their possible range (in our 24" army), but it could be a nice line breaker, specially in larger games.
Necrons CAD (5th Edition Book)
Barge Lord with Warscythe, Sempiternal Weave, Mind Shackle Scarabs, Phase Shifter, Resurrection Orb (Warlord)
Barge Lord with Warscythe, Sempiternal Weave, Mind Shackle Scarabs, Phase Shifter
Royal Court 1: 2 Harbingers of Storm, 1 Harbinger of Despair
Royal Court 2: 2 Harbingers of Storm, 1 Harbinger of Despair
5 Deathmarks, Nightscythe
5 Warriors, Ghost Ark
5 Warriors, Ghost Ark
5 Wraiths
3x Annihilation Barge
Officio Assassinorum Detachment
Culexus Assassin
The Mission
Spoiler:
The LVO format has a total of 10 points available. 4 for winning the primary mission, 3 for winning the modified Maelstorm (a d6 chart that changes slightly in each round), and 1 each for first blood, line breaker, and warlord. Whoever has the most points at the end of the game wins.
Primary: Purge the Alien
Secondary: Maelstorm
Deployment Type: Vanguard Strike
Game Summary
Spoiler:
I won the roll to go first and deployed with my dominions within 12 of the central ruin. My opponent rolled Master of Ambush for his trait and would be infiltrating his two warrior squads and his wraiths. The central ruin had no windows on my side and I wanted to maximize the spaces I had LOS to so as to force my opponent to infiltrate into the ruin or barely outside his own deployment zone. I deployed two exorcists on my far left, able to see behind the ruin and the third on the far right so that he could move to the other side. My CCS and wyverns deployed behind a hill deep in my corner with the chimera and Celestine supporting them for protection. The two BSS squads and the Vendetta with dominions on board went into regular reserves.
My opponent deployed his two barge lords on the left, his two warriors and wraiths central inside the ruin, and all three ABs went on the right. His deathmarks were in the night scythe in reserve and his assassin outflanked.
I used my scout move to redeploy the dominions 12” back into my deployment zone (robbing his wraiths of the easy charge and forcing them to spend a turn exposed in the open if he came out of the building. My opponent failed to seize.
Turn One: The exorcists and dominion immolators shuffled back a little to make sure the wraiths couldn’t get any charges turn one. The CCS ordered itself to ignore cover and shot at one of the ghost arks. The barrage scattered on to an AB and glanced it. The lascannon penned the ghost ark and immobilized it. The 2 left exorcists shot at one of the CCBs and stripped a wound or two off the character and the right exorcist shot at the immobile ghost ark and destroyed the weapons facing towards my deployment zone. The rest of the army had no targets (LVO plays 6th edition barrage and ruins, meaning I couldn’t target the wratihs) and I passed the turn to my opponent.
The CCBs moved and then went flat out towards the top right corner with his mobile ghost ark supporting them. The wraiths popped out center and ran to get closer for next turn. The ABs crept up towards my right flank exorcist, but all them had to move over 6 to get shots and would be snap shooting and the warriors bailed out of the immobile ark and into the ruin. His ABs fired at the one exorcist they could see, but between BS1, AV13 and cover no damage was done.
Turn Two: The dominions moved up and bailed out, with double dice range to both CCBs and the Ghost Ark. My vendetta arrived and I put it in the lower left corner. The dominions grav chuted out within double dice range of an AB. The exorcists shuffled around a little more. In the shooting phase, the Vendetta exploded the AB damaged by the barrage last turn and the dominions ignored cover and exploded a second AB. The other two dominion squads exploded the ghost ark on the right and stripped two wounds off his warlord. The exorcists shot at the CCB lords as well and one penned his warlord barge, rolling a bad pen result but more importantly stripping of the AV13. The Wyverns, CCS and veterans (who bailed out of the chimera) shot at the wraiths and killed 3 of the 5.
The nightscythe and the assassin failed to arrive (pretty sure my trait was -1 to reserves). His last barge dropped behind the vendetta and tried to shoot it out of the sky, but I jinked away any damage. His barge lords swept over my immolators and then assaulted the dominions, killing both squads on the right flank. The surviving wraiths assaulted my right flank exorcist and whiffed (one glance, saved by the 6++). The warriors from the exploded ghost ark moved towards the exorcists but weren’t in range.
Turn Three: Both BSS squads came on, one in the center to shoot at the rights and one on the far right to take the maelstorm objectives over there as needed and make a late game run for line breaker. The surviving dominions moved up the hill and killed the last AB. Celestine went up to the center and charged the warriors out of the exploded ghost ark, killing them. Shooting killed off the two surviving wratihs as well and the vendetta flew off the board to set up a kill run on the night scythe if it came on this turn.
The CCBs split, one going after an exorcist and one going after Celestine. Both his reserves arrived, with the assassin coming on in the right and going after my dominions. He killed 3 with his shooting but they passed morale. The CCB assaulted Celestine, she failed MSS and did a wound to herself, but saved two 4++ from the warscythe and five 2+ from impact hits to avoid instant death. She then hit and ran out of combat towards the warriors hiding in the central ruins. His other CCB lord managed to kill an exorcist.
Turn 4: The vendetta returned, hitting the nightscythe twice and rolling double 1s for AP. Celestine flamed and charged the second warrior squad, killing them. The 2 surviving dominions (one melta gunner and sarge) shot and exploded the immobile ghost ark. Both BSS rhinos went 18” towards the far left corner and away from as much of his army as possible. All my surviving shooting went into his warlord CCB and dropped the last wound and he failed RP.
His assassin killed one more dominion, leaving just sarge. She passed morale and would then go hide in the ruins the rest of the game after her squad had snagged a nifty 3 kill points for me. His nightscythe dropped his deathmarks in front of my CCS and his bargelord killed my last exorcist on the left.
At this point, I was up by 3 or 4 KP and behind on one maelstorm point. The game now turned into me running away from his four surviving units to try and deny him the chance to catch up. The game actually ended up going seven turns and on the last turn, my opponent was able to tie me on KPs but I had used the time to get ahead of him on maelstorm. He just didn’t have enough units left to play both missions after four.
Result: Sisters win 6 to 1. I had maelstorm, warlord, linebreaker and first blood to my opponent’s line breaker.
Farseer Anath'lan wrote: Something of a random thought, we fairly regularly have discussions about Repentia and Penitent Engines, but has anyone run a 10 girl squad of Rets? No heavy weapons, maybe HF, just bolters and forward. Seems horrible nasty. I realise that it seems completely counter-intuitive, and doesn't make the most of their possible range (in our 24" army), but it could be a nice line breaker, specially in larger games.
Hmm, I think I'll try that in my next game.
Why do that when rets with heavy bolters are cheaper, better range and can put out almost as many shots?
Farseer Anath'lan wrote: Something of a random thought, we fairly regularly have discussions about Repentia and Penitent Engines, but has anyone run a 10 girl squad of Rets? No heavy weapons, maybe HF, just bolters and forward. Seems horrible nasty. I realise that it seems completely counter-intuitive, and doesn't make the most of their possible range (in our 24" army), but it could be a nice line breaker, specially in larger games.
Hmm, I think I'll try that in my next game.
I thought of dropping 9 of them in a pod with Uriah (or maybe just a regular priest), 4 HF, and a simulacrum then camping them on an objective in my opponent's backfield/middle. (Obviously some of my other units would have to move int their general direction to provide my opponent with multiple targets, otherwise, they'd all die horribly.
Andilus Greatsword wrote: Yeah, what day is that supposed to be? I just realized the other day that I'm missing a Seraphim, so I'm probably gonna order one... maybe a couple Jokaero or something as well.
Yup, coming up this Wednesday. I'll copy up the "poster" tomorrow / Wednesday. The recommended model is Melta-gun sister (You know just for those Imperial Knights - there's a reason why they're faction: Imperium with Sisters lol) but any purchase would help. A few Celestines are going up for conversions and i think one guys said he needed 3 Tanks and 2 Squads lol.
Mavnas wrote: My point is that while the exo might be better, it makes your army even more one dimensional, which is kind of our problem to start with.
The HB rets are also capable of shooting down weak AV11 fliers given enough time. The exo could get lucky, but on average you're only going to get a hit every two turns, and only half of those will pen. (Though if your opponent is intimidated into jinking... that's a thing.)
I find exorcists get overestimated and HB rets get underestimated. This means HB rets generally don't need that much protection because most of the rest of your army will be higher on most people's target priority list. Exorcists are the opposite unless he's got no deep strike/long range anti-armor (in which case they are pretty amazing).
On the "Exorcist is a must" thing i'd agree with Mavnas, but in a different way.
When making an army list the priority is always 2 Exos. But for the 3rd choice i would not go "Only Exo". I usually field either the Avenger or the Heavy Bolter Retributors in Bastion.
Rending Quad gun is just too good to skip out on, unless you have the Avenger for dedicated AA.
Also, the set-up works quite well in "Escalation-type" games. The ones where you play 500pts --> 1000pts ---> etc.
If you take the Retributors at 500-odd points they are real game-changers at that point level (when most enemies will field all the "20-warriors"-type Units for their larger games.
Game 2 i really try to squeeze in the 2 Exos, but for that type of game the Retributors get 1st place
So this is something I've been mulling over for sometime now. Why not take a Vengeance Weapon Battery as a Fortification with SoB? Specifically the Battle Cannon, or rather two of them. For just 170, you'd get two of the Battle Cannon Vengeance Weapon Battery (for only the one Fortification slot too!)
They would help supplement long range shooting of either Exorcists or Rets, while providing some AV 14 "terrain" to claim cover from. I know that the Bastion has generally been the go to fortification for SoB, but I think that the Vengeance Weapon Battery has been mostly overlooked.
Sample list using Vengeance Weapon Battery:
Spoiler:
HQ: St. Celestine 135
Troops: BSS, Meltagun x 2, Combi-Melta, Rhino 130 BSS, Meltagun x 2, Combi-Melta, Rhino 130
FA: Doms, Meltagun x 4, Combi-Melta, Immolator 175 Doms, Meltagun x 4, Combi-Melta, Immolator 175 Doms, Meltagun x 4, Combi-Melta, Immolator 175
Heavy: Exorcist 125 Exorcist 125 Exorcist 125
Fortification: Vengeance Weapon Battery w/ Battle Cannon x 2 170
I don't know that scattering templates I have no control over are a thing I'd be comfortable using. Since they'd shoot at the closest target, they'd likely shoot at the enemy unit closest to my own lines and at BS 2, that's a lot of potential scatter.
Back in 2013, I think, I ran an AV13 overload list at the Ordo Open in Portland. BSS in Repressors, Exorcists, Doms in Repressors, 2 Vengeance with Battle Cannons, etc. so on.
I won all but one of my games and only lost to the best overall guy. Got best general for my trouble.
They are fun and cool, but not reliable. They did a ton of work. Heck, in one game they killed 2 paladins and coteaz in one shot. Other times, they did nothing.
Eldar CAD Farseer, Jet Bike, Shard of Anaris
Farseer, Jet Bike, Spirit Stone of Anath’lan, Phoenix Gem
6x Warlock on Jet Bike
2x 3 Jet Bikes
Lynx
Skyshield Landing Pad
Tau Firebase Support Cadre
Riptide, Ion Accelerator, Early Warning Override, Velocity Tracker
2x3 Broadsides, 1 with Target Lock, 2 with Early Warning Override, all with Missile Pods and Smart Missiles
The Mission
Spoiler:
The LVO format has a total of 10 points available. 4 for winning the primary mission, 3 for winning the modified Maelstorm (a d6 chart that changes slightly in each round), and 1 each for first blood, line breaker, and warlord. Whoever has the most points at the end of the game wins.
My opponent won the roll to go first and deployed his skyshield in the back right of his deployment zone. He placed the Lynx and both Broadside units on the sky shield. The Riptide went center, getting cover from the ruin in the center and only 12” away from the relic and his seer council went on the left, about 12 inches deep in his deployment zone inside a ruin as well. His two bike squads went into reserve.
I rolled Master of Ambush for my warlord trait and decided to outflank both my dominion squads and my warlord’s BSS squad. I placed the veterans and my other BSS squad into regular reserves. Celestine and the wyvern battery went directly across from the relic, completely hidden by a windowless ruin. Celestine could now threaten anything that made an early grab for the relic and the wyverns could range almost his entire deployment zone. I deployed the three exorcists deep in my zone, all behind cover and outside of range of his broadsides. The CSS deployed about 12” back from the wyverns but still out of LOS.
I tried to seize and rolled a 5 to do so. Thanks opposing super heavy LOW!
Turn One: The exorcists shuffled a little to maintain cover and gain LOS to the rip tide. The CCS scattered their barrage off target, but the wyverns managed to kill three warlocks out of the seer council. The exorcists took 2 wounds of the Riptide.
The seer council moved up, failed fortune and turbo boosted back all the way to the back of his board edge to be out of wyvern range. The Lynx fired at an exorcist, getting two hits. I saved one with cover and he rolled a “1” for his d3 hull points on the other. The riptide shuffled back towards the sky shield.
Turn Two: One dominion squad arrives along with the BSS and Chimera in regular reserves. All stay out of range of the broadsides. The shaken exorcists moves out of LOS and the other two decide discretion is the better part of valor, staying in cover rather than exposing themselves to shoot at his well-protected fire base. His intercepting riptide immobilizes the dominions immolator and the veterans Chimera pops smoke while the BSS Rhino moves flat out to get cover from the immobilized immolator. The wyverns plink at the broadsides, taking maybe one wound off them. The CCS barrage scattered into nowhere.
The lynx moved off the skyshield to shoot at one of my exorcists on the left. The broadsides shuffled forward a little and the rip tide held his ground. The seer council failed fortune again and continued to hang in his backfield along with a newly arrived jet bike squad. The lynx failed on the exorcist (missed one and I made a cover save), but smart missiles glanced the immolator to death for first blood for the Eldar.
Turn Three: The Vendetta arrived and stayed out of broadside ranged. His Riptide tried to intercept. I elected not to jinx and the gamble paid off as his tank hunting riptide hit only once and then failed to glance or pen. The dominions from the wrecked immolator moved and ran into the ruin by the relic. The BSS rhino and the Chimera moved up near the relic as well. The CCS missed its barrage again and the wyverns fired on a broadside squad and managed to drop a suit. The exorcists fired at the broadsides and the riptide but the Eldau made all their saves.
The seer council failed fortune again. The firebase stood still and shot smart missiles at the dominions, killing one. The lynx forgot to move, but killed the chimera with its shooting and forced the veterans out into the open.
Turn Four: The warlord BSS arrived and moved directly towards the relic. The BSS rhino drove on top of the relic. The last dominion squad arrived on the left, moving towards the back of the lynx. I left them embarked, figuring my opponent would kill the immolator with interceptor and I could then disembark after his out of sequence shooting was done and use my ignore cover fire against the lynx or a nearby unit of jetbikes. His interceptors did kill the immolator with the last smart missile shot, but I promptly failed my LD9 pinning check. The exorcists aligned themselves on the lynx and the Vendetta zoomed 36” forward, grav inserting its dominions within double dice range of the lynx. Shooting saw the lynx explode and scatter into my pinned dominions, killing three of them. One broadside died to exorcist fire.
The seer council (finally fortuned) and a jet bike squad moved up, killing all of the dominions from the vendetta squad and leaving only one survivor from the outflanking squad. Smart missiles killed the Rhino sitting on top of the relic and the squad bailed out of the back. The riptide used its 4d6 jump move to get into range to contest the relic and be a major nuisance if it survived.
Turn Five: Celestine finally emerged and joined the disembarked BSS squad. The other BSS rhino and the veterans moved up, putting all four of my surviving obsec units within range of the relic. Exorcist fire and melta guns put the riptide down. The wyverns shoot at the seer council since it was finally back in range and center the barrage on the only warlock with protect, managing to kill only him (but critical, since now they can’t circumvent Celestine’s AP3). The vendetta shoots at broadsides, but the skyshield is still invulnerable.
The seer council jumps up and multi-charges the disembarked BSS squad with Celestine and the warlord’s Rhino. The Rhino survives and some of the Sisters die, but since we’re both fearless we stay locked. I hit and run out. A single jetbike squad moves to contest the relic and his other squad zooms into my deployment zone to tie us on maelstorm points. If the game ends now, Grant would win 1-0 (Relic contested, maelstorm tied, no one has line breaker or warlord and Grant has First Blood). Grant rolls and up pops a 6.
Turn Six: The heavy flamers from the Rhino BSS and the veterans shoot down his OBSEC unit on the relic. The master of ordnance hits his only shot of the game, but it kills all three jet bikes in my deployment zone. The exorcists and vendetta kill off his three surviving broadsides and the vendetta dropped into hover to grab line breaker. The wyverns plink harmlessly of the seer council and then Celestine charges back in with her BSS friends to lock them down in combat. Celestine challenges and my opponent accepts with his non-warlord farseer. Combat draws (I wound the farseer, he kills a BSS). I choose not to hit and run.
We fight a quick round of combat and Grant rolls to see if the game ends and it does. I have linebreaker and the relic and scored enough maelstorm points on six to pull ahead of him.
Please show some love for the Sororitas Range of models (quite sure i don't need the Antics on this thread and we're all aware already lol) 8am PST 10am CST 11am EST for the US 4pm GMT in the UK 5pm CET for most of Europe
The LVO format has a total of 10 points available. 4 for winning the primary mission, 3 for winning the modified Maelstorm (a d6 chart that changes slightly in each round), and 1 each for first blood, line breaker, and warlord. Whoever has the most points at the end of the game wins.
Well…gak. 7 FMCs and I have 6 FA choices he can kill to win the mission. The only real upside here is that he has essentially zero ground presence. Just the malanthrope, venomthrope and dimachaeron. My game plan here is simple: reserve all my obsec and try to keep them out as long as possible. Try to win the maelstorm and grab at least two of the secondaries to put pressure on him to land and expose the FMCs. Killing his ground units will be easy.
My opponent wins the roll to go first and deploys everything at the 24” mark except the mucolids which will deep strike. The venomthrope and malanthrope are hiding inside a large central ruin. The huge dimachaeron is visible, but will get 2+ cover. I deploy my CCS, wyverns and exorcists, making sure to measure 44” from all his flyrants (this way he can’t shoot me with devourers unless he onslaughts and even then still can’t hit me with an egrub template). The dominions all outflank (including the squad that normally goes in the vendetta, this time with Celestine attached), the BSS squads and veterans go into normal reserves along with the vendetta.
I try to seize and fail. The nids all go airborne but have no shooting and put FNP on a bunch of the flyers. I scatter my exorcists out so he can’t get multiple haywire hits next turn and then start shooting. The CCS orders itself to ignore cover and hits the dimachaeron and venomthrope. I put a wound on the dimachaeron but roll a “1” and fail to ID the venomthrope. The wyverns hit the venomthrope next and kill him for First Blood. The malanthrope had moved back to cover an objective and since the dimachaeron had now lost shrouding, the exorcists massed fire drops him despite the 4+ cover.
The FMCs advance and kill the CCS and strip various hull points from vehicles. Two of my outflanking squads come in and kill the malanthrope. The game now becomes a game of me running away from his FMCs and scoring objectives and my opponent flying around trying to keep up. He lands a couple of crones throughout the course of the game and they end up quickly dieing to meltas and exorcists as he slowly whittles me away.
At the end of 5, I am winning maelstorm and have first blood and line breaker. I also have enough OBSEC units left to steal the primary if the game ends for a 8-0 win. The game goes on to turn six and the nids are able to knock me off enough objectives to give them the primary. My opponent makes a key mistake and forgets line breaker is within 12” of the table edge and not just deployment zone so even though he has 3 FMCs in glide within 24” of my edge, he does not get the line breaker point. I end up winning the game 5-4 (line breaker, first blood, maelstorm to my opponent’s primary).
So life is getting in the way and I don't think I'll get to LVO games 5 and 6 so here are the quick highlights.
Game 5: Played another Eldar army with Lynx. I was locked in aggressive mode and after my opponent deployed to counter my dominions by castling deep in his corner (vanguard deployment), I should have simply scouted them to the center of the board and out of LOS and then forced him to go first. This would have given me last turn on objectives, negating the speed advantage of his serpents and jetbikes. Instead, I tried for the long range melta strike and ended up feeding him my army piece meal (although the 15 dominion melta shots combining for a total of 3 HPs of damage to wave serpents certainly didn't help). Lost 1-9. My opponent went on to place 3rd overall.
Game 6: Played a 150 model Green Tide supported by a VSG and two gretchin squads. My opponent placed one warboss center and his other warboss and Grotsnik on the far left with PK nobs spread evenly throughout. I counter deployed with Celestine far right, wyverns and exorcists center, CCS far left and outflanked everything else (master of ambush warlord trait) except the vendetta. My opponent gave me first turn so he could have last say on objectives. Starting on Turn 2, Celestine would assault the tide single handedly and she ended up tying them up for 3 whole turns, hitting and running out so my shooting could do its thing. My opponents real saving grace was buying heavy armor for about half his tide. I still killed about ~75 orcs, both grot squads and both warbosses before the game ended naturally on the bottom of six but the ability to tank the wyverns wounds on a 4+/5+ FNP rather than a straight 5+ FNP kept a ton of boys alive. Celestine really benefited from her mobility to pick spots to assault where she could avoid power klaws and I repeatedly would center the wyvern barrage on the nob closest to her to keep power klaws away. She made 2+ saves like a beast this game (although in my turn, the tide would normally get only 5 or 6 boys swinging even after pile-in moves because I could pick my spots where to assault). Ended up winning 9-1 (Celestine dieing on the bottom of 4 was first blood for my opponent).
She died for the second time on the bottom of four. She died bottom two to a stray PK nob who I thought was out of 5" to swing but apparently was just in.
THE EMPEROR PROTECTS 
