Last straight up regular dragon I can remember was the Talisman dragon- wasn't related to any army or faction. Just a generic dragon. Or was it? Maybe I'm not remembering correctly.
AndrewGPaul wrote: Never mind that nonsense, what about the Warhammer Fire Dragon? Unlikely I know, since it's not been on sale for ages, but still ...
Honestly I bet FW of today can make a MUCH better dragon!
They haven't bettered it with all the other dragons they've done since. The one the Amethyst wizard was riding was a close second, but I've never been a fan of that vertical pose. All the others are nice, but they're a something dragon - toad, chaos, sea creature, whatever. And of course, none of them are available to Order, so I can't stick them in with my Highborn.
I’ve always been thinking for a fantasy minis company they’ve been weirdly lacking in having a straight up no-frills big dragon model.
GW are hardly a straight up no-frills company, especially now. Every recent release has been bent with plenty of frills
GW are trying their best to be non generic, so also no generic dragons. I mean sure you still have the elves and dwarves, the brave humans and they are still heavily Tolkien and DnD inspired. However, Fyreslayers, Sylvaneth, Idoneth, DoK, Kharadrons, Nighthaunts, even the Stormcast are all reasonably fresh.
I am sure they'll eventually do some dragon shaped thing, but it will almost definitely have frills
(Just to reiterate, obviously no idea GW has is completely original, but they are definitely pretty fresh up to a point)
Overread wrote: I'm somewhat surprised to see Daughters of Khaine get so many point cost increases on their warscrolls
Me too, considering 50 extra points for a temple nest seems like a lot when blood stalkers didn't go down in points and most of our command abilities are general only.
Overread wrote: I'm somewhat surprised to see Daughters of Khaine get so many point cost increases on their warscrolls
Me too, considering 50 extra points for a temple nest seems like a lot when blood stalkers didn't go down in points and most of our command abilities are general only.
Yeah, I'm furious. I just bought an army and they haven't even arrived yet. Now the list I spent a few weeks planning is no longer valid. I swear GW is trying to force people to buy the Witch Elves box.
I'm honestly becoming paranoid that when Slaanesh is reintroduced they'll come in a starter set VS DoK and the witch elves will either be packaged as cheaper yet fewer or slightly cheaper but SoS and WE in separate kits
Overread wrote: I'm somewhat surprised to see Daughters of Khaine get so many point cost increases on their warscrolls
Me too, considering 50 extra points for a temple nest seems like a lot when blood stalkers didn't go down in points and most of our command abilities are general only.
Yeah, I'm furious. I just bought an army and they haven't even arrived yet. Now the list I spent a few weeks planning is no longer valid. I swear GW is trying to force people to buy the Witch Elves box.
I'm honestly becoming paranoid that when Slaanesh is reintroduced they'll come in a starter set VS DoK and the witch elves will either be packaged as cheaper yet fewer or slightly cheaper but SoS and WE in separate kits
I really hope DoK get a getting started box because Witch Aelves are very overpriced for a 10 man troop choice that is a core choice not an elite group. The Blood Coven set at least gives a good deal, but I can't even get a solid answer on if that is continuing or not (stores I've spoken too seem either unsure or have at least not had any advanced warning whilst GW website and support gave the standard "if its not there its gone" answer but with no real confirmation on the item itself).
Thing is I can't see why GW would take so long considering DoK are already out and are clearly a "main" force. You can even see them suffer without even a getting started bundle for the launch of Sigmar 2
Overread wrote: I'm somewhat surprised to see Daughters of Khaine get so many point cost increases on their warscrolls
Me too, considering 50 extra points for a temple nest seems like a lot when blood stalkers didn't go down in points and most of our command abilities are general only.
Yeah, I'm furious. I just bought an army and they haven't even arrived yet. Now the list I spent a few weeks planning is no longer valid. I swear GW is trying to force people to buy the Witch Elves box. I'm honestly becoming paranoid that when Slaanesh is reintroduced they'll come in a starter set VS DoK and the witch elves will either be packaged as cheaper yet fewer or slightly cheaper but SoS and WE in separate kits
This is something I've actually been having a discussion over the past few months. We have not seen many honest to goodness reboxings of products outside of just the WHFB->AOS rebadging and swapping bases in quite some time. Fyreslayers, an army that pretty much desperately needed reboxings like the Stormcast stuff did, only saw the addition of their Start Collecting set. Blightkings could have used a reboxing to 10 ala the Liberators--nada. Hell, SKELETONS didn't get bumped up to 20 models for Legion of Nagash! SKELETONS! A unit that for most of its history was coming 20 a pop in the big boxes containing them is somehow suddenly 10/box?
When Age of Sigmar launched, we saw a few things get changed right off the bat. We saw a few things get changed later on. I think Flesh-Eater Courts and the repackaging of Ghouls to 20 to a box was the most recent time of an actual full on repackaging. TLDR version: I don't think we'll see Witch Elves getting packaged with SoS and WE in separate kits(the frames aren't able to support this--it would need to be new kits)--but I do think we'll at least see them getting bumped up to 20. I just can't predict when it will happen. They've not been doing repackaging of late. I wonder if it's out of concern for old stock sitting on shelves?
Also, I can't explain points changes. There's some weird ones.
Looking at the Stormcast section reveals at least three or more models that we haven't seen yet.
Yup. I'm excited to see a Knight-Zephyros aside from Naeve. Hoping it actually gets a model though. It's also kind of nice to see some actual named heroes but I worry it'll continue the trend of "Stormcast get all the love!".
It looks like battalions pretty much universally got a 50-60 pt increase to account for the CP they generate. Those that didn't go up by that much effectively got a points decrease.
EnTyme wrote: It looks like battalions pretty much universally got a 50-60 pt increase to account for the CP they generate. Those that didn't go up by that much effectively got a points decrease.
I actually get that CP is the reason, but when you are already forced to take overcosted units to fulfill the requirements, the CP should be a free benefit.
EnTyme wrote: It looks like battalions pretty much universally got a 50-60 pt increase to account for the CP they generate. Those that didn't go up by that much effectively got a points decrease.
I was genuinely surprised to see the Royal Council for my Idoneth go down in points. My only explanation for it is that it is to reflect that you need all 3 characters in the same area to use the Command Ability the King will get from it.
Overread wrote: I'm somewhat surprised to see Daughters of Khaine get so many point cost increases on their warscrolls
Me too, considering 50 extra points for a temple nest seems like a lot when blood stalkers didn't go down in points and most of our command abilities are general only.
Yeah, I'm furious. I just bought an army and they haven't even arrived yet. Now the list I spent a few weeks planning is no longer valid. I swear GW is trying to force people to buy the Witch Elves box.
I'm honestly becoming paranoid that when Slaanesh is reintroduced they'll come in a starter set VS DoK and the witch elves will either be packaged as cheaper yet fewer or slightly cheaper but SoS and WE in separate kits
This is something I've actually been having a discussion over the past few months. We have not seen many honest to goodness reboxings of products outside of just the WHFB->AOS rebadging and swapping bases in quite some time.
Fyreslayers, an army that pretty much desperately needed reboxings like the Stormcast stuff did, only saw the addition of their Start Collecting set.
Blightkings could have used a reboxing to 10 ala the Liberators--nada.
Hell, SKELETONS didn't get bumped up to 20 models for Legion of Nagash! SKELETONS! A unit that for most of its history was coming 20 a pop in the big boxes containing them is somehow suddenly 10/box?
When Age of Sigmar launched, we saw a few things get changed right off the bat. We saw a few things get changed later on. I think Flesh-Eater Courts and the repackaging of Ghouls to 20 to a box was the most recent time of an actual full on repackaging.
TLDR version: I don't think we'll see Witch Elves getting packaged with SoS and WE in separate kits(the frames aren't able to support this--it would need to be new kits)--but I do think we'll at least see them getting bumped up to 20. I just can't predict when it will happen. They've not been doing repackaging of late. I wonder if it's out of concern for old stock sitting on shelves?
Also, I can't explain points changes. There's some weird ones.
Looking at the Stormcast section reveals at least three or more models that we haven't seen yet.
Yup. I'm excited to see a Knight-Zephyros aside from Naeve. Hoping it actually gets a model though. It's also kind of nice to see some actual named heroes but I worry it'll continue the trend of "Stormcast get all the love!".
I hope so too. Also, I wonder what a Lord Exorcist is?
I hope so too. Also, I wonder what a Lord Exorcist is?
I'm guessing the Lord-Exorcist is the gentleman here with the helm and book:
Spoiler:
I'm thinking that the Lord-Ordinator there is actually the Magister of Hammerhal.
Scratch that...Magister of Hammerhal wouldn't be enough there.
Aventis Firestrike, Magister Of Hammerhal, is the guy on Tauralon facing the Nighthaut here (that's him, or a normal Lord-Arcanum ; seeing the points it's probably a dual kit with a normal Lord-Arcanum).
EnTyme wrote: It looks like battalions pretty much universally got a 50-60 pt increase to account for the CP they generate. Those that didn't go up by that much effectively got a points decrease.
I was genuinely surprised to see the Royal Council for my Idoneth go down in points. My only explanation for it is that it is to reflect that you need all 3 characters in the same area to use the Command Ability the King will get from it.
It's because you need to spend command points on that ability which you'd otherwise save to spam his bonus attack one during high tide.
EnTyme wrote: It looks like battalions pretty much universally got a 50-60 pt increase to account for the CP they generate. Those that didn't go up by that much effectively got a points decrease.
I was genuinely surprised to see the Royal Council for my Idoneth go down in points. My only explanation for it is that it is to reflect that you need all 3 characters in the same area to use the Command Ability the King will get from it.
It's because you need to spend command points on that ability which you'd otherwise save to spam his bonus attack one during high tide.
That's partly what I was thinking, but I'm wondering if it also has to do with the simple fact that out of all the characters that Idoneth get--only the Kings get unique Command Abilities. Even the Royal Council only grants its ability to the King.
I've been kinda/sorta avoiding reading too much about Command Abilities to avoid prejudicing myself too much about them: Have we seen if they're set up like spells or can I use the same one as many times as I have Command Points for them?
Barring some rule I haven't seen the same one can be spammed by the same dude. The other day I had a daughters of khaine model pile in and attack me in the hero phase, three times in a row. So Idoneth want to save up for high tide then dump +3 attacks on a big blob of eels or thralls or something. Or a leviadon, nom nom nom.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Barring some rule I haven't seen the same one can be spammed by the same dude. The other day I had a daughters of khaine model pile in and attack me in the hero phase, three times in a row. So Idoneth want to save up for high tide then dump +3 attacks on a big blob of eels or thralls or something. Or a leviadon, nom nom nom.
Or you just take Volturnos and do the same thing to 3 units every time...good lord.
I know we don't want links but after seeing said links, anyone else laughing about how Evocators are the same cost as Protectors?
Like, I use Protectors cos they look cool, and they were already sort of useless, epsecaiily when my group doesn't use monsters. I got some use out of them for their range to attack over a shield wall though. But Evocators are the same cost? And the Lord-Arcanum is cheaper than a Lord-Aquillor.
Tiberius501 wrote: I know we don't want links but after seeing said links, anyone else laughing about how Evocators are the same cost as Protectors?
Like, I use Protectors cos they look cool, and they were already sort of useless, epsecaiily when my group doesn't use monsters. I got some use out of them for their range to attack over a shield wall though. But Evocators are the same cost? And the Lord-Arcanum is cheaper than a Lord-Aquillor.
Yeah we went through how Evocators are totally OP over in AoS discussion. They'll be doing the tournament rounds for sure.
You'll really want to treat it as a glaze rather than a wash, from what some of the studio members have been saying.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Tiberius501 wrote: I know we don't want links but after seeing said links, anyone else laughing about how Evocators are the same cost as Protectors?
Like, I use Protectors cos they look cool, and they were already sort of useless, epsecaiily when my group doesn't use monsters. I got some use out of them for their range to attack over a shield wall though. But Evocators are the same cost? And the Lord-Arcanum is cheaper than a Lord-Aquillor.
There's 4 different Lord-Arcanum entries. There's a foot version which is cheaper than the Lord-Aquilor, and then the Gryph-Charger, Dracoline version, and a Tauralon version are all more expensive than the Lord-Aquilor.
You'll really want to treat it as a glaze rather than a wash, from what some of the studio members have been saying.
From Facebook:
REDACTED wrote:What are they exactly? How do they behave when you paint them on a model? Is it like a shade? A tint?
Warhammer 40,000 wrote:It's hard to explain really - they're quite different to anything else we produce currently! We're sure the guys will be taking a look at them in some
They also say we'll be seeing videos starting next week. I'm really looking forward to seeing how Nighthaunt Gloom can be used on my Nighthaunts and Hexwraith Flame can be used on my Necrons.
The Nighthaunt range is definitely going to be huge !
We already have 2 named-on-the-box-not-on-the-rules Characters, that work as alternatives for common Heroes (Darrakar the Story only Guardian of Souls, and now this new spirit torment).
Kanluwen wrote: I think Nighthaunt Gloom is going to be the hardest one to get a grip on. It seems like it dries opaque from what's been shown.
Spoiler:
It does look like it almost does its own highlights, at least on a white undercoat. We'll have to see if they thin it with water or Lahmian Medium or use some other techniques in the tutorials.
EnTyme wrote: They remind me of Nihlakh Oxide, which I've used for everything from oxidation to ethereal flames.
Nihilakh Oxide over a white base is my go to for plasma coils and celestial energy(works a treat on Prosecutor and Knight Venator/Azyros wings). Really looking forward to messing around with the new paints.
The Nighthaunt range is definitely going to be huge !
Holy cow, I thought we alteady saw everything but the last leader.
Big points to Nagash going all out in this war. Can't wait to see how the realms respond.
It looks like Crawlocke the Jailor there is meant to be shown off as something akin to Lord Felthius--he'll have special rules in the box, maybe even points, but the general idea is for an alternate version of the boxed set character on the cheap.
This is kind of a dumb question, but I can't really find a listing anywhere. I want to get scenic bases for the Stormcast in the box. The infantry are on 40mm rounds? The ballista looks like maybe a 50 or 60? Not sure the size for the mounted hero. If anyone could help that would be awesome.
The nighthaunt dice are kind of a bummer. It's not like i'm going to be playing in the dark when I need to be able to read warscrolls and books. The box art for it gives away the other nighthaunt character though.
I wonder if the army specific spells come in coloured plastic as well? Regardless they all look wonderfully bonkers Its going to be hard to not add to my backlog over the coming weeks.
lord_blackfang wrote: Does it say anywhere what the hourglass does? I really hope it is something interesting and not another variety of a moving ball of death.
from the article
the Mortalis Terminexus can both heal and harm, so use yours with caution
Celestian Vortex? More like Celestian Boretex; lame name is lame. That said, at least the new SyFy original Hammernado can still come out with its working title intact…
It's nice that they added some race specific endless spells, but they are really hit and miss. That chest with skulls look like a kid toy, and the tornado of hammer is not much better. Scythe is really cool though
While SC in general are really boring and gakky imo, that new spell caster is pretty good.
These are looking so good! I can't wait for more factions to get Endless Spells, esp. Deepkin, Daughters of Khaine, Seraphon, Sylvaneth, Slaanesh... really, just everyone! They'll really add some great flavor to battles!!
I'm personally hoping that Deepkin get a Sharknado.
C'mon guys. It has to happen. I want Wanderers to get the Wild Hunt as a massively based spell that is just Orion with his hounds running at you with a spear and a screaming face.
There really is a lot of cool potential with the endless spells for factions. A maggot/nurgling something for nurgle, tidal wave for deepkin. Some of these spells do look like something out of an 80s/90s kids fantasy cartoon though, especially the nighthaunt chest thing. They are kind of hit/miss for sure.
There is a disconnect between the grittier battletome art and the more cartoony models though, and I say that for both factions. IMO the artwork looks better.
Kanluwen wrote: I'm personally hoping that Deepkin get a Sharknado.
C'mon guys. It has to happen. I want Wanderers to get the Wild Hunt as a massively based spell that is just Orion with his hounds running at you with a spear and a screaming face.
Sharks would be a bit too big (and copyrighted to boot). A tornado or whirlpool made from a shoal of piranhas however...
Kanluwen wrote: I'm personally hoping that Deepkin get a Sharknado.
C'mon guys. It has to happen. I want Wanderers to get the Wild Hunt as a massively based spell that is just Orion with his hounds running at you with a spear and a screaming face.
Sharks would be a bit too big (and copyrighted to boot). A tornado or whirlpool made from a shoal of piranhas however...
Piranhado is a thing too.
Split the difference with a giant honking spectral manta ray that heals Idoneth as it passes over?
Kanluwen wrote: I'm personally hoping that Deepkin get a Sharknado.
C'mon guys. It has to happen. I want Wanderers to get the Wild Hunt as a massively based spell that is just Orion with his hounds running at you with a spear and a screaming face.
Sharks would be a bit too big (and copyrighted to boot). A tornado or whirlpool made from a shoal of piranhas however...
Piranhado is a thing too.
Split the difference with a giant honking spectral manta ray that heals Idoneth as it passes over?
Well of course it wouldn't be a 'piranha'. It would have some trademarked name like Khornefish that would have huge jaws and eight fins (sorry, wrong army there ).
Kanluwen wrote: I'm personally hoping that Deepkin get a Sharknado.
C'mon guys. It has to happen. I want Wanderers to get the Wild Hunt as a massively based spell that is just Orion with his hounds running at you with a spear and a screaming face.
Sharks would be a bit too big (and copyrighted to boot). A tornado or whirlpool made from a shoal of piranhas however...
Piranhado is a thing too.
Split the difference with a giant honking spectral manta ray that heals Idoneth as it passes over?
Well of course it wouldn't be a 'piranha'. It would have some trademarked name like Khornefish that would have huge jaws and eight fins (sorry, wrong army there ).
Hell, you know what?
Mor'phann supposedly "summoned" some ginormous tentacled beast from the Realm of Death to protect their Enclave...let's go with that!
And here I was finally with my hobby budget decided. Blast! Gonna need to add a few more hundreds!
Hell, you know what?
Mor'phann supposedly "summoned" some ginormous tentacled beast from the Realm of Death to protect their Enclave...let's go with that!
I could see that, a giant greenish water portal with skulls in the water as fanged tentacles pour out. I imagine it'd act like the barrier spell but basically spell death for anything that tries to fight past that "wall".
I’m surprised that there’s been no Battletome leaks, they’ve kept a tight lid on them. Glad to see stormhost rules in there rather than having to take elaborate Battalions. And cool to see the new endless spells, they all looks shwifty, that Scythe and the hammernado are swert
Man everything they've revealed so far looks incredible. I was getting soul wars and already looking to potentially expand the Nighthaunt stuff. Seeing those endless spells is making me question my decision to stick to Stormcast for now.
That being said I'm really digging that Stormcast Battletome cover.
Kanluwen wrote: I'm personally hoping that Deepkin get a Sharknado.
C'mon guys. It has to happen. I want Wanderers to get the Wild Hunt as a massively based spell that is just Orion with his hounds running at you with a spear and a screaming face.
Sharks would be a bit too big (and copyrighted to boot). A tornado or whirlpool made from a shoal of piranhas however...
Piranhado is a thing too.
Split the difference with a giant honking spectral manta ray that heals Idoneth as it passes over?
I am a little annoyed that yes, they give you four of a figure you want 10 of. I'm probably getting two boxes for a big horde of ghosts, but I'll still be short two. Well, time to figure out some Reaper Bones proxies to pad out the numbers...
lord_blackfang wrote:Does it say anywhere what the hourglass does? I really hope it is something interesting and not another variety of a moving ball of death.
All these spells sound amazing at first, but now "moving ball of death" does seem to make this boring. Are all the endless spells just moving ball of death? Be it ball, square or what ever shape?
8 out of the 14 endless spells do damage with the other 6 being support such as healing or a barrier.(you can look them up on the app)
The new spells seem to be a mix of one large damage that'll be a point sink and hazard, smaller damage spell that's cheap and less double-edged and a support spell.
From War of Sigmar, Games Workshop has given us a sneak peek of Reikenor the Grimhailer on the Nighthaunt dice pack...
Hmm, "Git on a burny horse with pointy teeth" I wonder if he was hinted with that spider goblin short story instead of it being Mannfred?
My theory is Nagash is gonna wage the war with each nighthaunt leader attacking a mortal realm as per the maps shown in the white dwarf.
changemod wrote: So the starter set really does supply four of a unit that comes in tens...
Yupp. Four of a unit that comes in tens, and five of a unit that comes in fours. I was honestly hoping it was a mess up in the General's Handbook list, as I would have preferred Glaivewraith Stalkers to be the battleline option over Grimghast Reapers. Oh well, guess I'll be looking for some horse skulls to turn these converted Cairn Wraiths into Glaivewraiths instead.
It looks to me like the poses for the grimghast in soul Wars are repeated in that box of 10? The preview mentions extra chains and stuff to customise models and that it's multipart. Maybe they just copied the poses?
rtb02 wrote: Sorry to ask a stupid question but how do points work in AoS? Nurglings look to be min/ max unit size then 100 points. Is that per base?
I'm finally getting over the death of the old world but that makes no sense...
In age of sigmar the points listed are for the min size and there are no points per models, you can only increase a unit with the min size(you can increase it with less, but you still pay for the extra min size models).
Doubt I’ll make an army of Nighthaunt as the minis look a bit flimsy for my taste (specifically the arms) but the range looks really strong and everything is well modelled. Reminds me a lot of Bloodborne. Hats off to the team that did it.
rtb02 wrote: Sorry to ask a stupid question but how do points work in AoS? Nurglings look to be min/ max unit size then 100 points. Is that per base?
I'm finally getting over the death of the old world but that makes no sense...
In age of sigmar the points listed are for the min size and there are no points per models, you can only increase a unit with the min size(you can increase it with less, but you still pay for the extra min size models).
Thank you. Makes sense now. Simplified 40k then really. The new nighthaunt are v v tempting...
God damn those cover designs But I really hope they slow down a touch with the releases when the Sacrosanct chamber and Nighthaunts are done. I'm 4 armies deep right now, I need time to paint
[Edit] Ah, I failed to notice "go to first unread" put me back a page where I saw the question. Carry on everyone.
Points work by taking a unit's minimum size which costs that base amount of points(in this case 3 Nurglings for 100 points)
and adding that point base for an addition minimum number to that unit. (So 6 Nurglings for 200 points and 9 for 300. If you have say 4-5 Nurglings then you still add the base amount as if you were paying for 6 so that'd cost 200 for 5 Nurglings.)
Using the Warscroll builder should help, easier to do something than read something.
I for one can't wait to see what they come up for slaanesh... Ibmean, the obvious routes arnt going to be suitable for a younger audience, so I'm expecting some real creativity to be on display
Likely lots of claws, tentacles and exposed breasts on things that really shouldn't even have nipples. Always good to remember that gore and the grotesque is a-okay with all audiences.
Carlovonsexron wrote: I for one can't wait to see what they come up for slaanesh... Ibmean, the obvious routes arnt going to be suitable for a younger audience, so I'm expecting some real creativity to be on display
I wonder if his/her nature will change when she's let out of his box. Something something, the elves taking their souls drained some of the sex focus out and let light and shadow fill up the available space, so the new focus is the 'perfection' angle that we see sometimes in 40k. Or something along those lines.
My big hope is the fiends aren't the monopose disappointments the beasts of nurgle turned out to be.
Carlovonsexron wrote: I for one can't wait to see what they come up for slaanesh... Ibmean, the obvious routes arnt going to be suitable for a younger audience, so I'm expecting some real creativity to be on display
Voss wrote: I wonder if his/her nature will change when she's let out of his box. Something something, the elves taking their souls drained some of the sex focus
For as long as the Bloodwrack Medusa has a boob swaying in the wind the odds are GW isn't going to axe that aspect of Slaanesh.
Though you are going to have to come to terms with the fact that the sheer extent of the sexual explicitness isn't nearly as extreme as the fanbase makes it out to be.
Carlovonsexron wrote: I for one can't wait to see what they come up for slaanesh... Ibmean, the obvious routes arnt going to be suitable for a younger audience, so I'm expecting some real creativity to be on display
I wonder if his/her nature will change when she's let out of his box. Something something, the elves taking their souls drained some of the sex focus out and let light and shadow fill up the available space, so the new focus is the 'perfection' angle that we see sometimes in 40k. Or something along those lines.
My big hope is the fiends aren't the monopose disappointments the beasts of nurgle turned out to be.
I recall some reference to excess in other things, like gluttony. So it could be something along the assorted excess/seven deadly sins theme.
Also a short story where Slaanesh (while imprisoned) realises how dull it would be if Nagash succeeds and has a serious freak out. So I suspect Slaanesh might barge into the story with excessive excitement causing and undead stomping in mind.
Carlovonsexron wrote: I for one can't wait to see what they come up for slaanesh... Ibmean, the obvious routes arnt going to be suitable for a younger audience, so I'm expecting some real creativity to be on display
Voss wrote: I wonder if his/her nature will change when she's let out of his box. Something something, the elves taking their souls drained some of the sex focus
For as long as the Bloodwrack Medusa has a boob swaying in the wind the odds are GW isn't going to axe that aspect of Slaanesh.
Though you are going to have to come to terms with the fact that the sheer extent of the sexual explicitness isn't nearly as extreme as the fanbase makes it out to be.
While the sexual explicitness might not be "extreme", the perception of it is. It's ridiculous hearing people talking about how Slaanesh is all about orgies and crap like that.
Slaanesh is excess. It's gluttony. It's narcissism. It's loving the fine things in life more than life itself.
With that out of the way, I really hope we see something about the Knight-Zephyros soon.
I anticipate that Slaanesh will get his release, causing his forces to push deep into exposed lands. Probably a full frontal assault followed by the rear guard.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I anticipate that Slaanesh will get his release, causing his forces to push deep into exposed lands. Probably a full frontal assault followed by the rear guard.
So the guy that sits on a throne is the melee champ, and the charging guy with the huge scythe and mount is the wizard champ ?
That's so disapointing...
Reikenor looks great, will pick one up. I will probably shave the row of candles off the horse's head piece but otherwise great.
The guy on the throne also looks nice, but I don't get why it's floating, such a tiny contact point with the base. Still should be easy enough to convert to be on the ground.
As a non AoS player I'm still finding these nighthaunts hard to resist for other games.
loving all these Nighthaunt models. today's reveal is awesome. I stopped playing when AoS came out but i feel my resistance is almost at 0 now.
I note that GW forgot to erase the points for Reikenor (75). As i know nothing of AoS, I don't know if this is good or not.
As my birthday is this year, anyone fancy buying me all the Nighthaunt stuff?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also tempted buying the base bits for Reikenor separately to make a mini diorama with that statue walking down stairs ready to steal a poor victim's soul.
Well of course, the license has only been out for little more than a year maybe a year and a half. There's nothing else that could really be expected in that timeframe (that wasn't rushed and terrible)
It'll make a nice filler until a proper game comes up sometime in 2022 or later.
Well of course, the license has only been out for little more than a year maybe a year and a half. There's nothing else that could really be expected in that timeframe (that wasn't rushed and terrible)
It'll make a nice filler until a proper game comes up sometime in 2022 or later.
Well of course, the license has only been out for little more than a year maybe a year and a half. There's nothing else that could really be expected in that timeframe (that wasn't rushed and terrible)
It'll make a nice filler until a proper game comes up sometime in 2022 or later.
That is a proper game though.
That's true, I suppose that was a unnecessary sleight. Especially since I enjoy a great deal of strategy mobile games like Wesnoth and Age of Strategy.
I guess I should've just said a console game or used "more robust" rather than proper.
I'd be much happier if my phone could run it.
Oof, that is a kick in the hype knee. Not sure if even mine could, may have to grab the niece's tablet.
Samko wrote: So the guy that sits on a throne is the melee champ, and the charging guy with the huge scythe and mount is the wizard champ ?
That's so disapointing...
The minis are still awsome though.
Both are melee, and pretty good at it too. One spell per turn on a guy with that profile marks him as a melee guy who also casts, not a caster who also does melee. This is common for undead; vampire lords were always like that even going back to WHFB.
Tamereth wrote: Reikenor looks great, will pick one up. I will probably shave the row of candles off the horse's head piece but otherwise great.
The guy on the throne also looks nice, but I don't get why it's floating, such a tiny contact point with the base. Still should be easy enough to convert to be on the ground.
As a non AoS player I'm still finding these nighthaunts hard to resist for other games.
Yup. Currently writing up a Mordheim warband based on the Solomon Vantor/Thy Soul To Keep fluff and a new Dramatis Personae so I have an excuse to use some of these models.
She's only £27? Damn, that's quite a breath of fresh air after so many £60+ character models. And the Stormcast book is still only £25? That's impressive too considering the size the thing is going to be now.
Kanluwen wrote: While the sexual explicitness might not be "extreme", the perception of it is. It's ridiculous hearing people talking about how Slaanesh is all about orgies and crap like that.
Slaanesh is excess. It's gluttony. It's narcissism. It's loving the fine things in life more than life itself.
Nah dude! Slaanesh is nothing but sex. One of their endless spells is going to be called "Nipplestorm" or something like that. Its going to look amazing.
But no, you are correct. Slaanesh is the God of Excess. I and a few friends of mine once wrote a book about him/her.
Kanluwen wrote: While the sexual explicitness might not be "extreme", the perception of it is. It's ridiculous hearing people talking about how Slaanesh is all about orgies and crap like that.
Slaanesh is excess. It's gluttony. It's narcissism. It's loving the fine things in life more than life itself.
Nah dude! Slaanesh is nothing but sex. One of their endless spells is going to be called "Nipplestorm" or something like that. Its going to look amazing.
But no, you are correct. Slaanesh is the God of Excess. I and a few friends of mine once wrote a book about him/her.
Hmm, pure guess but my bets in going off of the pattern of big damage spell, little damage spell and support spell is that Slaanesh will get either a giant crystal or even floating marble statue that are both daemonic but gorgeous and not only damages thoses it flies over but draws them in with it's beauty, smaller spell would resemble a paintbrush but with spiked tentacles on the brush whose purpose is to "paint" the ugly battlefields of the realms into a canvas of ecstatic agony and then a daemon mirror for support that transfixes units with a clear line of sight at it's glass and perhaps lowers their bravery as it shows them their every desire which prompts them to quite the field to indulge themselves.
Once again, pure guessing but I think those would fit the dark god of pleasure.
Sorry if I'm *really* late to the party, but is Nighthaunt only going to be what we've seen so far or is it going to incorporate some of the older stuff too? I guess I'm asking if it's a completely new thing or if it builds on stuff we already had.
I'm trying to find someone local to split the starter box with. Not going to say I'm finally picking up AoS, but I'm going to give it the 'ol college try.
godswildcard wrote: Sorry if I'm *really* late to the party, but is Nighthaunt only going to be what we've seen so far or is it going to incorporate some of the older stuff too? I guess I'm asking if it's a completely new thing or if it builds on stuff we already had.
I'm trying to find someone local to split the starter box with. Not going to say I'm finally picking up AoS, but I'm going to give it the 'ol college try.
night of shouds, banshee, cairnwraight, hexwraight, spirit hosts and black coach is also part of night haunt
Just something people may be interested in, but AoS got a four page article spread in the new issue of SFX this month. Talking about the new edition, reactions about ending WFB, the models etc. Looked like an interesting read from what I was able to skim.
The Flying Ram look pretty good, the female one is kinda meh, doesn't look any better than the non-hero version from the trailer. Actually I think the non-hero one look better.
Chopstick wrote: The Flying Ram look pretty good, the female one is kinda meh, doesn't look any better than the non-hero version from the trailer. Actually I think the non-hero one look better.
Chopstick wrote: The Flying Ram look pretty good, the female one is kinda meh, doesn't look any better than the non-hero version from the trailer. Actually I think the non-hero one look better.
In what way? If anything, these two models are less grandiose than the stardrake or celestant prime. I still love them though.
I think, one day, everybody who complained that Stormcast are just Space Marines will eat their words. They'll be all like, man, I wish Space Marines were as cool as the Stormcast. If only I wasn't so blinded by my rage, I might have appreciated them earlier. And oh, I said some unnecessarily mean things to people who that liked them. For the first time in internet history, I should apologize for being mean and wrong. And then, boom, world peace. Thank you Stormcast Eternals!
Chopstick wrote: The Flying Ram look pretty good, the female one is kinda meh, doesn't look any better than the non-hero version from the trailer. Actually I think the non-hero one look better.
I think this is the one from the trailer.
There is another one with sword on back.
Fair play. I'm assuming that this is going to be like the Nighthaunt cavalry we've seen, where the box can build a hero too.
In what way? If anything, these two models are less grandiose than the stardrake or celestant prime. I still love them though.
I think, one day, everybody who complained that Stormcast are just Space Marines will eat their words. They'll be all like, man, I wish Space Marines were as cool as the Stormcast. If only I wasn't so blinded by my rage, I might have appreciated them earlier. And oh, I said some unnecessarily mean things to people who that liked them. For the first time in internet history, I should apologize for being mean and wrong. And then, boom, world peace. Thank you Stormcast Eternals!
I really like the Dracoths and the Stardrake, but I really REALLY like the Tauralon and Dracolines. I think the thing I like the most is that these are neu-mythical creatures, as in, not based on standard Greco-Roman mythology. I am bored with Pegasi and Chimera and whatnot. I also love that these new beasts look more chaos-y, because, for me, Sigmar is basically a Chaos god (he's more like a God of Law, which is just as bad, in Elric of Melnibone, which is where all GW's Chaos stuff was swiped from anyways).
Chopstick wrote: The Flying Ram look pretty good, the female one is kinda meh, doesn't look any better than the non-hero version from the trailer. Actually I think the non-hero one look better.
judgedoug wrote:I really like the Dracoths and the Stardrake, but I really REALLY like the Tauralon and Dracolines.
Galas wrote:That pegasus is gorgeus. I'm not that fan of the shape of his head/mouth, but the miniature in general is sublime.
I personally loathe the Dracoths, and it's largely because of their stupid mouths, which always struck me as an anatomy error on the sculptors' part, on top of pretty bleh poses. This new pegasus shares the same face problem, as nice as the rest of the critter is. The stardrake dodges the issue with a more developed head - also I just discovered there's a closed-mouth version? Whoa.
For me the gryph chargers are where it's at for Stormy mounts, especially the Lord-Aquillor's with the Lord-Arcanum's in second, and love the dynamism of the units as well. There's still a ridiculous chance I make a gryph charger army, simply on the strength of those chocobo mounts.
But yea, of these two new beasties I really like the cat-lizard. Nice subdued pose and decent anatomy.
judgedoug wrote: Someone on facebook pointed out the Tauralon has a Hyena mouth, built for ripping and tearing flesh following by the snapping of bones.
That's infinitely cooler than a boring ol' Earth Myth Pegasus.
Hmm... I don't know. I'm still not convinced by the head. I believe is because of the eye, maybe because its too close to the mouth, but at least, for me, it doesn't look right.
That does not make the rest of the model less magestic, but personally I would change the head for something different, probably a eagle/bird head. Is not like something is automatically good because its "new", and something isn't automatically bad because is old or based on Earth Myths. Or the inverse.
I am really liking this latest round of stormcast. The new models plus the new art which adds a few humanizing bits make me appreciate even the older models more.
I particularly like the winged horse-goat-hyena thing. The juxtaposition of the noble looking rider with what previously would look more like a chaos or "evil" creature is interesting.
Kanluwen wrote: While the sexual explicitness might not be "extreme", the perception of it is. It's ridiculous hearing people talking about how Slaanesh is all about orgies and crap like that.
Slaanesh is excess. It's gluttony. It's narcissism. It's loving the fine things in life more than life itself.
Nah dude! Slaanesh is nothing but sex. One of their endless spells is going to be called "Nipplestorm" or something like that. Its going to look amazing.
But no, you are correct. Slaanesh is the God of Excess. I and a few friends of mine once wrote a book about him/her.
Hmm, pure guess but my bets in going off of the pattern of big damage spell, little damage spell and support spell is that Slaanesh will get either a giant crystal or even floating marble statue that are both daemonic but gorgeous and not only damages thoses it flies over but draws them in with it's beauty, smaller spell would resemble a paintbrush but with spiked tentacles on the brush whose purpose is to "paint" the ugly battlefields of the realms into a canvas of ecstatic agony and then a daemon mirror for support that transfixes units with a clear line of sight at it's glass and perhaps lowers their bravery as it shows them their every desire which prompts them to quite the field to indulge themselves.
Once again, pure guessing but I think those would fit the dark god of pleasure.
A giant crystal would be more tzeentch then slaanesh as crystals recur a lot in tzeentch fluff like the infamous crystal labyrinth, daemons attacking fyreslayers for crystal vain in their mines and tzeentch magic crystallising the Dryden falls. I think a twisted crystal spire erupting from the ground could be a good endless spell for tzeentch. Could see possiblely that marble statue for slaanesh though.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote:She's only £27? Damn, that's quite a breath of fresh air after so many £60+ character models. And the Stormcast book is still only £25? That's impressive too considering the size the thing is going to be now.
Not really. It's not 40K yet. Their sales for Age of Sigmar are no where near 40K or as popular yet where GW can charge the 40K prices. AoS is still a baby, and people still remember the old GW so GW is not going to rush raising the prices to "regular" GW prices.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote:She's only £27? Damn, that's quite a breath of fresh air after so many £60+ character models. And the Stormcast book is still only £25? That's impressive too considering the size the thing is going to be now.
Not really. It's not 40K yet. Their sales for Age of Sigmar are no where near 40K or as popular yet where GW can charge the 40K prices. AoS is still a baby, and people still remember the old GW so GW is not going to rush raising the prices to "regular" GW prices.
Clearly you're not shopping for Fyreslayers (or Witch Aelves) lately. Fyreslayers are one of the worst priced armies in GW's entire contemporary catalog. :-p
Inquisitor Gideon wrote:She's only £27? Damn, that's quite a breath of fresh air after so many £60+ character models. And the Stormcast book is still only £25? That's impressive too considering the size the thing is going to be now.
Not really. It's not 40K yet. Their sales for Age of Sigmar are no where near 40K or as popular yet where GW can charge the 40K prices. AoS is still a baby, and people still remember the old GW so GW is not going to rush raising the prices to "regular" GW prices.
Clearly you're not shopping for Fyreslayers (or Witch Aelves) lately. Fyreslayers are one of the worst priced armies in GW's entire contemporary catalog. :-p
Sadly life events stopped me from buying so yeah, I couldn't get those models. Hoping to get them one day.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote:She's only £27? Damn, that's quite a breath of fresh air after so many £60+ character models. And the Stormcast book is still only £25? That's impressive too considering the size the thing is going to be now.
Not really. It's not 40K yet. Their sales for Age of Sigmar are no where near 40K or as popular yet where GW can charge the 40K prices. AoS is still a baby, and people still remember the old GW so GW is not going to rush raising the prices to "regular" GW prices.
Clearly you're not shopping for Fyreslayers (or Witch Aelves) lately. Fyreslayers are one of the worst priced armies in GW's entire contemporary catalog. :-p
judgedoug wrote:I really like the Dracoths and the Stardrake, but I really REALLY like the Tauralon and Dracolines.
Galas wrote:That pegasus is gorgeus. I'm not that fan of the shape of his head/mouth, but the miniature in general is sublime.
I personally loathe the Dracoths, and it's largely because of their stupid mouths, which always struck me as an anatomy error on the sculptors' part, on top of pretty bleh poses. This new pegasus shares the same face problem, as nice as the rest of the critter is. The stardrake dodges the issue with a more developed head - also I just discovered there's a closed-mouth version? Whoa.
For me the gryph chargers are where it's at for Stormy mounts, especially the Lord-Aquillor's with the Lord-Arcanum's in second, and love the dynamism of the units as well. There's still a ridiculous chance I make a gryph charger army, simply on the strength of those chocobo mounts.
But yea, of these two new beasties I really like the cat-lizard. Nice subdued pose and decent anatomy.
- Salvage
Not a fan of the taurolon's head, something off about it I can't put my finger on. More ram like would have fit.
I agree that gryph chargers look great, a bigger and winged variety would be fantastic
Inquisitor Gideon wrote:She's only £27? Damn, that's quite a breath of fresh air after so many £60+ character models. And the Stormcast book is still only £25? That's impressive too considering the size the thing is going to be now.
Not really. It's not 40K yet. Their sales for Age of Sigmar are no where near 40K or as popular yet where GW can charge the 40K prices. AoS is still a baby, and people still remember the old GW so GW is not going to rush raising the prices to "regular" GW prices.
Erm... Morathi is £80... The infantry boxes are generally £30. Your argument really doesn't hold. Olynder is very cheap in fairness.
Not a fan of the taurolon's head, something off about it I can't put my finger on. More ram like would have fit.
I agree that gryph chargers look great, a bigger and winged variety would be fantastic
I would have loved the taurolon to be a big winged gryph thing. I would have gotten that for sure. No way I'm going to get a miniature I don't really like that also has command abilities that only works with Hammers of Sigmar.
Not a fan of the taurolon's head, something off about it I can't put my finger on. More ram like would have fit.
I agree that gryph chargers look great, a bigger and winged variety would be fantastic
I would have loved the taurolon to be a big winged gryph thing. I would have gotten that for sure. No way I'm going to get a miniature I don't really like that also has command abilities that only works with Hammers of Sigmar.
You know that it's just for the named character, right?
There's a generic option too. We've seen in the GHB that both of these named characters have unnamed variants too.
You know that it's just for the named character, right?
There's a generic option too. We've seen in the GHB that both of these named characters have unnamed variants too.
That's certainly good news. Probably something for GW to include in the posts about the models. There's really nothing in the warhammer community article that makes these sound like anything other than named heroes.
Though something tells me the generic ones will have very different command abilities. Not saying which will be better or worse, but I can't see them making the named versions with the exact same rules as the generic.
You know that it's just for the named character, right?
There's a generic option too. We've seen in the GHB that both of these named characters have unnamed variants too.
That's certainly good news. Probably something for GW to include in the posts about the models. There's really nothing in the warhammer community article that makes these sound like anything other than named heroes.
Well yeah, because they're just previewing the named heroes. I wish they'd given us previews of the generics--would love to know about the Knight-Zephyros. Naeve Blacktalon is one, but she's the only example we've seen so far--she was "the first" seemingly.
Though something tells me the generic ones will have very different command abilities. Not saying which will be better or worse, but I can't see them making the named versions with the exact same rules as the generic.
Have you looked at Volturnos versus the Akhelian King?
Same stuff, just different numbers. Volturnos' command ability affects 3 units rather than 1 and at 18" rather than 12". The non-CAs are 18" rather than 12" as well.
Man, that Taurolon's mouth is godawful, even though its been said before. Its like it loves its mals to go down whole like a snake; its head is 75% mouth!
Overall stunning models, though. Even mounts like these are little steps towards making me feel like I can imagine more of a living 'feel' to at least some of the realms.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote:She's only £27? Damn, that's quite a breath of fresh air after so many £60+ character models. And the Stormcast book is still only £25? That's impressive too considering the size the thing is going to be now.
Not really. It's not 40K yet. Their sales for Age of Sigmar are no where near 40K or as popular yet where GW can charge the 40K prices. AoS is still a baby, and people still remember the old GW so GW is not going to rush raising the prices to "regular" GW prices.
You should look one line lower, at Stormcast guy. He is halfway toward insane pricing of Primaris characters, he should be €20 top, like BA/DA lieutenants.
On a side note, I just realized what Stormcast surfing board reminded me of:
Spoiler:
Also, new look at Stormcast and Spooky endless spells today:
Two big things - painting Stormcast in 'wrong' colours is strongly frowned upon, especially named characters, and new base size list - which tells you to always treat models as if they were on stated bases, even if they are on different ones (say old square ones). Technically, it's 'suggested' change but I can already see tournaments mandating proper colors and bases now.
I wonder, when the wrong paint ban makes over to 40K Space Marines?
Really digging the new Stormcast Beasties too. I think people riding around on weird creatures and shooting giant magic spells is what fantasy is all about!!
Irbis wrote: painting Stormcast in 'wrong' colours is strongly frowned upon, especially named characters
That's just general anti-proxy sentiment. You are free to paint them whatever colors you want, but if you are benefiting from Hammers of Sigmar-specific rules, your guys should look the part to avoid confusion and cheating.
The wrong paint thing I think will be ignored very fast!
The base size though I like, it clears up an area of confusion for some models; esp as there is still stock out there with old base and players with older collections or second hand models.
It's just a specific occurence of WSIWYG isn't it ?
It is, but one can use it to argue that your custom paint scheme prevents you from using rules dedicated to a specific chamber with a specific paint scheme
It's just a specific occurence of WSIWYG isn't it ?
In 40k if I really like the rules for Dark Angels (for example) but I want paint my marines red, I could invent my own Dark Angels successor chapter. Does Age of Sigmar let me do that? That’s why it’s a problem.
Basically if you use anything near the official scheme for an army that has alternate subfactions then you've got to use the army that its painted like. (Good luck proving that with Daughter's of Khaine!)
However if you use your own scheme you're basically totally free to pick and choose.
I think its GW's way of trying to keep clarity in the game but doing it poorly ;whilst also someone form marketing got a foot in to try and unify the appearance of armies. A fine policy for GW's internal system but rubbish for gamers esp when GW has had DECADES of encouraging peoples own schemes.
Overread wrote: Basically if you use anything near the official scheme for an army that has alternate subfactions then you've got to use the army that its painted like. (Good luck proving that with Daughter's of Khaine!)
However if you use your own scheme you're basically totally free to pick and choose.
I think its GW's way of trying to keep clarity in the game but doing it poorly ;whilst also someone form marketing got a foot in to try and unify the appearance of armies. A fine policy for GW's internal system but rubbish for gamers esp when GW has had DECADES of encouraging peoples own schemes.
Most of your average opponents won't have a problem with you proxying models painted as one Warrior Chamber as a different one. Tournaments and official GW events may have differing opinions on the matter.
Any notion of having to have my minis look a certain way is very off putting for someone like me, who doesn’t own a single finished miniature that isn’t converted in some way.
As said it will likely only affect GW sponsored tournaments. Even then the actual real world test of the rule might result in it being modified.
I highly doubt it would ever be general policy or store policy. The only time you might get ruled on it casually would be if you were abusing things (eg mixing groups up to confuse your opponent what is what on the table)/
The problem is that it's really hard to put the actual guideline in an official document. We all know that, when it comes to proxies and stuff, the rule really is "yeah, but don't take the p**s".
I'm almost certain the Stormcast battletome will have the same line all the recent ones do, which is something like, "if you want to play a [sub-faction] of your own invention, just pick whichever set of rules suit the background of your army". So you'll be able to use the rules however you've painted your models, but that doesn't necessarily make them "Hammers of Sigmar" which is what the question was addressing.
I have to admit..the instance someone looks at my army and says.."They can't be so and so cause there actually painted like so and so"...Is when I shake their hand, concede the game and go find some else to play. My Stormcast all have chaos helmets and are painted to look like iron warriors from 40k.
Yeah, this sounds like just a token effort to stop rules exploiting at the big tourneys. Especially when GW have constantly been pushing player creativity and narratives to the point they show fan conversions and vastly different paint schemes on their all their sites including their store images.
I know I don't care as my Stormcasts are a mix of Hallowed knights, Grailcasts and videogame inspirations like Darknuts and Shovel Knight. Heck, i'm buying Sureheart and painting him as a Hallowed knight despite him being all about Hammers of Sigmar, with all the magic flying around he converted for the sake of keeping his brother knights safe and to better charge ahead into the fray.
For me the biggest thing is that they have specified at last that you should use always the latest Warscroll for a unit. I have seen a couple of people using the old faq where you could chose which one to use and it was shaddy as f****
And yeah. This will be like 40k. "Do you have your army painted as Dark Angels? Use dark Angels Rules. Do you have your custom chapter? Use wichever rules you want"
Galas wrote: For me the biggest thing is that they have specified at last that you should use always the latest Warscroll for a unit. I have seen a couple of people using the old faq where you could chose which one to use and it was shaddy as f****
And yeah. This will be like 40k. "Do you have your army painted as Dark Angels? Use dark Angels Rules. Do you have your custom chapter? Use wichever rules you want"
That is how I read it. Don't show up with an Ultramarines army and say they are Dark Angles.
plastictrees wrote: Are there any SE specific key word factions other than Hammers right now?
Until they add more it's pretty irrelevant.
As of this moment, no. But there's nothing stopping more down the road.
Right now the HoS nameds are:
Naeve Blacktalon
Astreia Solbright
Aventis Firestrike
Gavriel Sureheart
IF THEY GIVE HIM A NAMED WARSCROLL--Lord Ordinator Starstrike
Speaking for myself, there's some people I will never let run "custom Stormhosts" with since I know they'll change with the FAQs and have some hastily painted color scheme.
plastictrees wrote: Are there any SE specific key word factions other than Hammers right now?
Until they add more it's pretty irrelevant.
As of this moment, no. But there's nothing stopping more down the road.
Right now the HoS nameds are:
Naeve Blacktalon
Astreia Solbright
Aventis Firestrike
Gavriel Sureheart
IF THEY GIVE HIM A NAMED WARSCROLL--Lord Ordinator Starstrike
Speaking for myself, there's some people I will never let run "custom Stormhosts" with since I know they'll change with the FAQs and have some hastily painted color scheme.
Those are the Heroes that belong to a specific Stormhost (i.e., the Hammers of Sigmar). Other Stormhosts exist that have rules but no Heroes for those Stormhosts. Those include the Hallowed Knights, the Celestial Vindicators, the Anvils of the Heldenhammer, the Knights Excelsior, the Celestial Warbringers, the Tempest Lords and the Astral Templars. More may be included in the new battletome which goes on pre-order this weekend.
Confirmed stormhost in the new battletome? And the same <chapter> system than in 40k?
"Q: If I add units to my army after a battle has started, and my army has an allegiance ability that adds a keyword to the units in the army, is that keyword received by eligible units I add to my army after the battle has begun? For example, if I have a Stormcast Eternals army and use the Stormhosts rule to give all Stormcast Eternals units in the army the Hammers of Sigmar keyword, would any new Stormcast Eternals units that I add to my army get the keyword?"
I just figured I'd name off the heroes so people could get an idea as to the number of them to expect. It's worth pointing out that I missed one--Vandus Hammerhand(the starter box guy)--and that they all roughly coincide with specific Chambers of the Stormcast. Naeve's a Vanguard oriented hero, Sureheart and Hammerhand are Warrior Chamber, Solbright and Firestrike are Sacrosancts.
I just figured I'd name off the heroes so people could get an idea as to the number of them to expect. It's worth pointing out that I missed one--Vandus Hammerhand(the starter box guy)--and that they all roughly coincide with specific Chambers of the Stormcast. Naeve's a Vanguard oriented hero, Sureheart and Hammerhand are Warrior Chamber, Solbright and Firestrike are Sacrosancts.
Yes. I just quoted you for completeness in my post instead of repeating all of the Heroes you listed. With the question being "Are there any SE specific key word factions other than Hammers right now?" it looked to me that plastictrees was asking if there were other stormhosts other than the Hammers of Sigmar with rules. There are, but none of them have named Heroes.
Which is a shame because Gardus and Hamilcar deserve something. It would be neat if the tome gave warscrolls for them anyway as generic heroes in narratives.
It's just a specific occurence of WSIWYG isn't it ?
In 40k if I really like the rules for Dark Angels (for example) but I want paint my marines red, I could invent my own Dark Angels successor chapter. Does Age of Sigmar let me do that? That’s why it’s a problem.
See, that's my problem with recent GW inanity - yes, you can make pink chapter and say these are DA or Ultramarines, but one of the recent 40KFAQs stated then you're then forbidden from using say Calgar or Azrael, as these are DA or Ultramarines characters, not from successor chapters. Of course, all it did was people now saying they have fielded DA or Ultramarines with dirty armour, instead of successors, but the fact you need to jump through these hoops in 40K (and now Sigmar) is pretty dumb. Remember 5th edition SM Codex? That just plainly stated that you can use Calgar as 'counts as' badass chapter master of your own design, no questions asked? No proxying needed? I miss that. GW may be encouraging conversions these days, as it sells more models, but their rule writers (or maybe sales department?) starting with 6th edition make dumber and dumber rules, exceptions, and flip flops on what exactly is the allowed mini paint if you want to stay 100% compliant with rules...
Yeah, following the rules in the Codex you literally can't play a DA successor chapter and use a Chapter Master, you don't have that option.
I have yet to see someone forbidding other player of using his custom chapter and using Azrael/X special character as his Chapter Master. Is easy, just use <dark angels> keyword with your custom paint scheme.
But I left the tourney scene long ago after playing against red Ultramarines (actually blood angels - but person called the ultras to get the ultramarine psychic powers to bolster his Tau).
I also play the army I paint and don’t rules hop or jump into flavor of the month builds. I also talk to my opponents before the game to smooth out any inconsistency... which will solve this issue almost all the time.
I guess I don’t understand the self made problem of purchasing a character model and then wanting it to be something else.
rayphoton wrote: I have to admit..the instance someone looks at my army and says.."They can't be so and so cause there actually painted like so and so"...Is when I shake their hand, concede the game and go find some else to play. My Stormcast all have chaos helmets and are painted to look like iron warriors from 40k.
Fortunately, this has never happened.
Nah, then you call THEM out for not having the correct unit markings and take the double disqualify.
It's just a specific occurence of WSIWYG isn't it ?
In 40k if I really like the rules for Dark Angels (for example) but I want paint my marines red, I could invent my own Dark Angels successor chapter. Does Age of Sigmar let me do that? That’s why it’s a problem.
See, that's my problem with recent GW inanity - yes, you can make pink chapter and say these are DA or Ultramarines, but one of the recent 40KFAQs stated then you're then forbidden from using say Calgar or Azrael, as these are DA or Ultramarines characters, not from successor chapters. Of course, all it did was people now saying they have fielded DA or Ultramarines with dirty armour, instead of successors, but the fact you need to jump through these hoops in 40K (and now Sigmar) is pretty dumb. Remember 5th edition SM Codex? That just plainly stated that you can use Calgar as 'counts as' badass chapter master of your own design, no questions asked? No proxying needed? I miss that. GW may be encouraging conversions these days, as it sells more models, but their rule writers (or maybe sales department?) starting with 6th edition make dumber and dumber rules, exceptions, and flip flops on what exactly is the allowed mini paint if you want to stay 100% compliant with rules...
The fluff has no place on the table, unless you're specifically playing narrative games. That's why narrative play and matched play are different things. When you try to force things like painting to matter, you open up all sorts of problems. For example: Which shade of blue is the shade of blue Hammers of Sigmar are ACTUALLY? Because if you have to be painted exactly hammers of sigmar then only 1 shade of blue is correct. How many highlights do hammers of sigmar stormcasts use on their blue? Because if you do the wrong highlights you're not technically Hammers of Sigmar anymore. What about gold? The hafts on their hammers? Ornaments? Squad markings? Other various bits and bobs? Do any one of those a non-hammers of Sigmar color and you've technically violated the painting rule.
And if you're reading this going 'that sounds like nit-pickey BS' you're 100% right, but it's also the correct implementation of the rule. You don't say 'oh this has a 6" range but a 7 or 8 would be fine too', do you?
Using the correct paint scheme when it playing dark angels is as important as using the correct models. You wouldn't play as DS with Tau models, even if they were the right size and base would you? They're both the hobby side of things sure, but why is that any less valid?
Everyone loves creativity, but if you're playing something well defined in the lore, such as a space marine chapter, then you don't get to say "but dark angels were pink with blue feathers as loin cloths". The game (all parts of it including matched play) is set in a defined universe, that of 40k. Because for this to work every game must be set in that universe that gw created, which has rules, rules that to play in that universe you must follow, otherwise you're not really playing 40k.
Some omissions are easier overlooked, you generally allow for slightly different shades of the colour, same as you account for painting ability which may not be able to show the universe as it should be.
You can complain that's stifling creativity, but there are many plenty of places you can be creative, such as custom chapters, it's only when you want to play a defined chapter but use not the defined colour scheme that it's wrong. If anything, it shows you don't really care about the chapter you're playing, you just want the rules because they're good. If that's the case, I could happily play against you but only using drinks cans as my vehicles.
It's same as with historical recreation events. You're trying to match a very specific thing when playing a specific chapter, hence you don't get to invent new things for them, you're not a BL writer.
Okay, that FAQ is a pretty big mess.
A lot of these answers change the rules instead of clarifying.
Who finishes setting up first chooses who goes first in the first battle round.
You have to choose artefacts and command traits when writing the list, yet you can only choose the general (and therefore the command trait) when setting up the model.
Abilities that allow you to make a move can now be used to move within 3" of an enemy if it lacks "normal move" or "as if it were the movement phase"?
Some of these base sizes also seem a little shady.
I'm not in the habit of defending GW's shoddier ideas, but there's really no need to worry about the paint scheme thing. It's not new. There's been a notable uproar about the exact same thing in 2004 when GW released chapter traits for Marines. and you know what? People kept painting their models they way they like regardless, and picked the rules that best suited them.
The latest designer commentary isn't going to change that. It's just GW's desire to protect the integrity of their setting. If you paint your Sigmarines red with pink dots, you can still play Hammers of Sigmar rules because your color scheme isn't taken yet. They just don't want you to use an established color scheme to confuse an opponent. If you see Salamanders, it's going to be Salamanders. If you see Black Templars, it's going to be Black Templars. If you see Ultramarines, it's going to be Alpha Legion.
Aren73 wrote: You can complain that's stifling creativity, but there are many plenty of places you can be creative, such as custom chapters, it's only when you want to play a defined chapter but use not the defined colour scheme that it's wrong. If anything, it shows you don't really care about the chapter you're playing, you just want the rules because they're good. If that's the case, I could happily play against you but only using drinks cans as my vehicles.
No you can't. Those cans are Carnifexes and you know it. Stop using Carnifexes as proxies for your vehicles.
Galas wrote: For me the biggest thing is that they have specified at last that you should use always the latest Warscroll for a unit. I have seen a couple of people using the old faq where you could chose which one to use and it was shaddy as f****
And yeah. This will be like 40k. "Do you have your army painted as Dark Angels? Use dark Angels Rules. Do you have your custom chapter? Use wichever rules you want"
That is how I read it. Don't show up with an Ultramarines army and say they are Dark Angles.
OK, they're the Omega Angels, a Dark Angels successor chapter of my own design who wear blue, use Codex company markings, and bear a silver/white inverted omega as their sigil.
And that's why this totally arbitrary distinction between "I painted my models as Ultramarines but will use them as Dark Angels" being evilbadwrong, while a "custom" chapter using whatever rules you like is fine is moronic. Either a paint scheme is tied to rules, in which case rules should only be available to armies painted in the exact official GW colours for the appropriate faction and any subfactions GW also explicitly name and define a colourscheme for, or a paintscheme isn't tied to rules, in which case it shouldn't matter a jot whether the scheme you're using is official or made up.
GW want to have it all ways - they want to push forward with basing game rules around named special characters rather than generic ones of the players' own design, they want to sell those named characters to as many people as possible, and they also want to keep all the "official" stuff "pure". You can't have all those things at once while also being fair.
Either actually limit SCs to their specific faction's paintschemes without exception, or go back to treating how you paint your army and what the rules of your army are as distinct things that don't relate if you don't want them to.
You can complain that's stifling creativity, but there are many plenty of places you can be creative, such as custom chapters, it's only when you want to play a defined chapter but use not the defined colour scheme that it's wrong. If anything, it shows you don't really care about the chapter you're playing, you just want the rules because they're good. If that's the case, I could happily play against you but only using drinks cans as my vehicles.
Comparing a different paint scheme to playing with drinks can? Honestly that’s a bit of an insult to every player who spends a huge amount of time, effort and money doing interesting and creative things in the hobby.
Worry not! While these rules are designed to represent the unique tactics of the most iconic groupings of Stormcast Eternals, you can use them however you’ve painted your models – just choose the rules that you think best represent how YOUR army fights.
By the same credit, these rules aren’t compulsory – if you’d rather leave yourself the flexibility of not fighting for a specific Stormhost, you can do so!
In fact, these rules are a bit of a treat for those who like to home-brew their own Stormhosts and characters, allowing you to further distinguish your army to represent how YOU think it should play. If your Stormcast Eternals are cerebral, patient and tactical, you could use the Tempest Lords rules, while the Celestial Warbringers rules are perfect for those looking to make the most out of magic.
Me whenever GeeDub tells me what to do with my minis:
Or put another way, I lived through GW's dramatic withdrawal from hosting events and having much of any contact with the community it counts on for life. So every time I hear "but in GW events" I snort and scroll on, because there was quite a long time where there essentially weren't GW events, where clubs and other organizations ran virtually all the tournaments. This is still the reality. It's neat that The Dub is hosting events outside of Warhammer World and having some thoughts about competition a) as a thing that they should have a hand in and b) as a thing that exists on a national and larger scale. But even then we still run this thing, and the GW event is still this strange boogeyman that gets trotted out in the name of homogenizing the hobby side of the hobby.
Do I get irked that people use their painted space marines as space marines from whatever the best codex is? Actually, I do, because that's proxying and I'm a counts as player - I model with intention, fitting models to rules but with the goal of using what I want and telling the story I want. Proxying sort of works the other direction, with rules first as opposed to models. But would I ever tell those people they couldn't do what they're doing by playing their Blood Angels as Flavor-of-the-Week Marines? Not a chance, and I'd recognize that they have a painted army at all, which is cool. But I still wouldn't vote for them as Favorite Army
Worry not! While these rules are designed to represent the unique tactics of the most iconic groupings of Stormcast Eternals, you can use them however you’ve painted your models – just choose the rules that you think best represent how YOUR army fights.
By the same credit, these rules aren’t compulsory – if you’d rather leave yourself the flexibility of not fighting for a specific Stormhost, you can do so!
In fact, these rules are a bit of a treat for those who like to home-brew their own Stormhosts and characters, allowing you to further distinguish your army to represent how YOU think it should play. If your Stormcast Eternals are cerebral, patient and tactical, you could use the Tempest Lords rules, while the Celestial Warbringers rules are perfect for those looking to make the most out of magic.
Interesting that the first artifact taken for a Stormhost hero has to be the Stormhost's artifact.
GW have never told anyone what to do with their models. That's why they've been pretty clear over the decades that players should feel free to change the rules to their liking, and that FAQs are simply the designers' house rules.
str00dles1 wrote: Anyone keen based on the stormhost pics what the 3 other chapters are?
Left to Right:
Hammers of Sigmar
Hallowed Knights
Celestial Vindicators
Celestial Warbringers or possibly the Astral Templars. Both have the candied red and both had rules in the current book.
Anvils of the Heldenhammer
Knights Excelsior maybe?
AndrewGPaul wrote: GW have never told anyone what to do with their models.
But GW events ...
I'm throwing GeeDub under the bus for the playerbase's occasional lack of imagination and difficulty with abstraction in gaming. I've been on Dakka for a long time and can always remember people using The Dub as a boogeyman for policing other people's hobbying. This is just another step down that same road. My point was that these events where GW has the right to dictate what models may be used (as all company's do at their own events) hardly exist themselves, and in fact did not for many years.
That's why they've been pretty clear over the decades that players should feel free to change the rules to their liking, and that FAQs are simply the designers' house rules.
It seems quite clear to me that one of the attractions of playing GW games is that the rules are the rules wherever you go, even as clunky as the updating process has always been. It's somewhat foolish of people to argue that FAQs published by the company itself are simply house rules that can be placed to the side, when one of the very values of these games is that we all use the same, most up to date rules to speak a common language across thousands of gaming tables.
Anyway, letting the point rest until it inevitably comes up again. In regards to the new Stormcast, here's dreaming that every army gets the same treatment, and that GW avoids giving out any blanket buffs like the -1 to hit in 40k, which has had the opposite effect on army comp that they likely intended.
str00dles1 wrote: Anyone keen based on the stormhost pics what the 3 other chapters are?
Left to Right:
Hammers of Sigmar
Hallowed Knights
Celestial Vindicators
Celestial Warbringers or possibly the Astral Templars. Both have the candied red and both had rules in the current book.
Anvils of the Heldenhammer
Knights Excelsior maybe?
Celestial Warbringers rather than Astral Templars (they're specifically called out in the article), and the last one is Tempest Lords.
Knight wrote: How are the traits balanced for the deepkin? Assume I'm living under the rock and have no idea what sort of madness is going on in 40k?
Their version of Stormhosts are called Enclaves and are all reasonably balanced except one (More'Fan) which is clearly OP.
Mor'phann is (in my opinion) balanced by the fact that their Tidecasters can't take anything from the "Lore of the Deeps", necessitating a player to bring an Aspect of the Sea to have access to the signature lores of the army.
What Ninth is likely referring to is the ability of Soulrenders to return an additional 3 Namarti during the Battleshock Phase when using their "Lurelight" ability(which is a D3 natively, with +1 to the D3 roll for each model slain by the Soulrender's Talunhook during the preceding Combat phase). When coupled with a Namarti Corps Warscroll Battalion(2 units of Thralls, 2 of Reavers, 1 Soulrender), it's a guaranteed amount of models returned since the Namarti Corps counts the D3 roll to return models as always being a 3(which is...interestingly written and I'm submitting to the FAQ line. Is it 3 models being returned or a D3 roll of a 3--meaning 2 models returned?).
It can get gross quickly, provided someone just stacks a big block of Thralls and keeps them as being immune to Battleshock(meaning they'd only suffer casualties from the fighting they're engaged in).
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Knight wrote: How are the traits balanced for the deepkin? Assume I'm living under the rock and have no idea what sort of madness is going on in 40k?
By and large, they're okay. A few really stand out(Ionrach and its ability to grant Tides of Death to allies while also taking an extra Tidecaster and Soulscryer in the Royal Council Battalion, Mor'phann and its Namarti synergy) but for the most part they're nothing to really write home about. A couple of them(Mor'phann and Nautilar) have to take a signature spell on their Tidecasters rather than allowing for them to take a spell from the Lore of the Deeps.
Knight wrote: How are the traits balanced for the deepkin? Assume I'm living under the rock and have no idea what sort of madness is going on in 40k?
Their version of Stormhosts are called Enclaves and are all reasonably balanced except one (More'Fan) which is clearly OP.
Mor'phann is (in my opinion) balanced by the fact that their Tidecasters can't take anything from the "Lore of the Deeps", necessitating a player to bring an Aspect of the Sea to have access to the signature lores of the army.
Tidecasters would take up hero slots that could be soulrenders anyways, though. At any rate, after playing against a unit of thralls getting d3+9 guys back every round (from just two soulrenders...) I'd say it's an issue.
Knight wrote: How are the traits balanced for the deepkin? Assume I'm living under the rock and have no idea what sort of madness is going on in 40k?
Their version of Stormhosts are called Enclaves and are all reasonably balanced except one (More'Fan) which is clearly OP.
Mor'phann is (in my opinion) balanced by the fact that their Tidecasters can't take anything from the "Lore of the Deeps", necessitating a player to bring an Aspect of the Sea to have access to the signature lores of the army.
Tidecasters would take up hero slots that could be soulrenders anyways, though.
Fair play, but with Endless Spells being a thing now--Tidecasters are going to get used at least for dispelling/unbinding. One of the biggest discussions I've been involved in elsewhere has been around Mor'phann and the Command Abilities changes plus the fact that you can tag in multiple units now with your CAs. It makes a Royal Council basically a 'must have' for Mor'phann, which means at least one Tidecaster is in play.
At any rate, after playing against a unit of thralls getting d3+9 guys back every round (from just two soulrenders...) I'd say it's an issue.
How are they getting +9 guys back from 2 Soulrenders? Mor'phann gives you +3 to the amount returned; you'd need 3 to get that--or the Soulrenders have to kill at least 3 models with their Talunhooks.
Not saying it didn't happen, just unclear as to the situation. I should also add that I did submit to the FAQ line a question as to whether or not it's intentional that the same Namarti unit can have units returned to it by multiple Soulrenders since the FAQs yesterday put a lot of caps on similar "pick a unit" abilities.
str00dles1 wrote: Anyone keen based on the stormhost pics what the 3 other chapters are?
Left to Right:
Hammers of Sigmar
Hallowed Knights
Celestial Vindicators
Celestial Warbringers or possibly the Astral Templars. Both have the candied red and both had rules in the current book.
Anvils of the Heldenhammer
Knights Excelsior maybe?
Celestial Warbringers rather than Astral Templars (they're specifically called out in the article), and the last one is Tempest Lords.
Hard to tell for last one. Could be either really, Tempest or Knights as both use red plumes, have white and blue
Thommy H wrote: The article mentions the Tempest Lords and all the others are accounted for.
Tempest Lords are a midnight blue armor color. The faceplates are that color with a bronze/silvered gold 'detailing' for the lightning bolts, and then silver backing it.
I mean, it's possible that they changed the colors on them--but there might be more than 'just' those.
You can complain that's stifling creativity, but there are many plenty of places you can be creative, such as custom chapters, it's only when you want to play a defined chapter but use not the defined colour scheme that it's wrong. If anything, it shows you don't really care about the chapter you're playing, you just want the rules because they're good. If that's the case, I could happily play against you but only using drinks cans as my vehicles.
Comparing a different paint scheme to playing with drinks can? Honestly that’s a bit of an insult to every player who spends a huge amount of time, effort and money doing interesting and creative things in the hobby.
I was talking mainly about all the people who paint their army as X but then use them as Y because Y has tastier rules. I happen to play Legion of Blood in my Legions of Nagash army, putting in as you say a huge amount of time, effort and money to make sure my army looks the part. Because having my army look like the army I'm playing matters, I actually feel like they're a part of the universe we all enjoy. I love seeing new and crazy colour schemes and conversions, they're great especially when the person not only cares about a whacky idea but also about making it look lore appropriate. My main gripe is with people who don't care. Who say dunk their marines into a pot of green and call the Dark Angels but then grab a green Guilliman and use Ultramarine rules in tournaments, the sort of people who couldn't care less about the lore, the setting...I think that's a pretty bad way to hobby. I am a fan of people who genuinely love their army and faction, not so much of people who don't care, that's all.
Knight wrote: How are the traits balanced for the deepkin? Assume I'm living under the rock and have no idea what sort of madness is going on in 40k?
Their version of Stormhosts are called Enclaves and are all reasonably balanced except one (More'Fan) which is clearly OP.
Mor'phann is (in my opinion) balanced by the fact that their Tidecasters can't take anything from the "Lore of the Deeps", necessitating a player to bring an Aspect of the Sea to have access to the signature lores of the army.
Tidecasters would take up hero slots that could be soulrenders anyways, though.
Fair play, but with Endless Spells being a thing now--Tidecasters are going to get used at least for dispelling/unbinding. One of the biggest discussions I've been involved in elsewhere has been around Mor'phann and the Command Abilities changes plus the fact that you can tag in multiple units now with your CAs. It makes a Royal Council basically a 'must have' for Mor'phann, which means at least one Tidecaster is in play.
Good point.
At any rate, after playing against a unit of thralls getting d3+9 guys back every round (from just two soulrenders...) I'd say it's an issue.
How are they getting +9 guys back from 2 Soulrenders? Mor'phann gives you +3 to the amount returned; you'd need 3 to get that--or the Soulrenders have to kill at least 3 models with their Talunhooks.
Not saying it didn't happen, just unclear as to the situation. I should also add that I did submit to the FAQ line a question as to whether or not it's intentional that the same Namarti unit can have units returned to it by multiple Soulrenders since the FAQs yesterday put a lot of caps on similar "pick a unit" abilities.
Battalion gave an auto-3, d3 from the second soulrender, +3 to each from More'Fan. We commented afterward that it would probably be stronger just to drop the battalion in favor of at least one more soulrender for 3d3+9 instead.
Thommy H wrote: The article mentions the Tempest Lords and all the others are accounted for.
Tempest Lords are a midnight blue armor color. The faceplates are that color with a bronze/silvered gold 'detailing' for the lightning bolts, and then silver backing it.
I mean, it's possible that they changed the colors on them--but there might be more than 'just' those.
Again, the article specifically mentions Tempest Lords as one of the options.
Thommy H wrote: The article mentions the Tempest Lords and all the others are accounted for.
Tempest Lords are a midnight blue armor color. The faceplates are that color with a bronze/silvered gold 'detailing' for the lightning bolts, and then silver backing it.
I mean, it's possible that they changed the colors on them--but there might be more than 'just' those.
Again, the article specifically mentions Tempest Lords as one of the options.
And, again, he was specifically asking about the ones in the picture I posted.
I'm not arguing that Tempest Lords are not mentioned. I'm simply saying that in the picture that he was inquiring about, they might not have been represented.
Not a problem - Following the exact paint scheme for a specific army bonus.
Not a problem - Deviating from the exact paint scheme for a specific army bonus.
Not a problem - Inventing one’s own colour scheme, and then choosing which army bonus suits one’s play style.
Not a problem - Really liking and following Paint Scheme A, but fielding as Army Bonus B.
Really very a much a problem - Really liking and following Paint Scheme A, but waiting to see what your opponent is fielding before choosing your army bonus to best counter that specific game.
Really very much a problem - as above, but with your own invented paint scheme.
Not a problem - Painting it in any colours (strict or otherwise), and then finding that, after a few games, perhaps another Army Bonus will suit your collection, and giving that a whirl instead
Basically, everyone be flexible, but don’t be a Phallus.
Intention definitely matters. If someone playing one stormhost wants to use the rules for another because it's a game experience they want or it matches what goes on in the stories better or whatever, I'm cool. If they do it because it makes their army stronger, I'm less interested. Like the one local guy who plays Imperial Fists but uses the Ravenguard rules. Right...
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Really very a much a problem - Really liking and following Paint Scheme A, but waiting to see what your opponent is fielding before choosing your army bonus to best counter that specific game.
Really very much a problem - as above, but with your own invented paint scheme.
I thought we are suppose to have lists already made before hand so this type of thing doesn't happen? I mean are not most people who are serious about this have lists that are already pre made or do people really need an edge when making a list?
Not a problem - Following the exact paint scheme for a specific army bonus.
Not a problem - Deviating from the exact paint scheme for a specific army bonus.
Not a problem - Inventing one’s own colour scheme, and then choosing which army bonus suits one’s play style.
Not a problem - Really liking and following Paint Scheme A, but fielding as Army Bonus B.
Really very a much a problem - Really liking and following Paint Scheme A, but waiting to see what your opponent is fielding before choosing your army bonus to best counter that specific game.
Really very much a problem - as above, but with your own invented paint scheme.
Not a problem - Painting it in any colours (strict or otherwise), and then finding that, after a few games, perhaps another Army Bonus will suit your collection, and giving that a whirl instead
Basically, everyone be flexible, but don’t be a Phallus.
Yup. The only thing actually made illegal by the rules is painting the army using the scheme for a specific stormhost then using it as a different one. Or in other words your marines painted as blood angels cannot be ultramarines. It's not any different than these things were in the last edition, nor is it really a problem.
You can complain that's stifling creativity, but there are many plenty of places you can be creative, such as custom chapters, it's only when you want to play a defined chapter but use not the defined colour scheme that it's wrong. If anything, it shows you don't really care about the chapter you're playing, you just want the rules because they're good. If that's the case, I could happily play against you but only using drinks cans as my vehicles.
Comparing a different paint scheme to playing with drinks can? Honestly that’s a bit of an insult to every player who spends a huge amount of time, effort and money doing interesting and creative things in the hobby.
I was talking mainly about all the people who paint their army as X but then use them as Y because Y has tastier rules. I happen to play Legion of Blood in my Legions of Nagash army, putting in as you say a huge amount of time, effort and money to make sure my army looks the part. Because having my army look like the army I'm playing matters, I actually feel like they're a part of the universe we all enjoy. I love seeing new and crazy colour schemes and conversions, they're great especially when the person not only cares about a whacky idea but also about making it look lore appropriate. My main gripe is with people who don't care. Who say dunk their marines into a pot of green and call the Dark Angels but then grab a green Guilliman and use Ultramarine rules in tournaments, the sort of people who couldn't care less about the lore, the setting...I think that's a pretty bad way to hobby. I am a fan of people who genuinely love their army and faction, not so much of people who don't care, that's all.
Not everyone enjoys the universe. I personally don't care much for the fluff of AoS, and the two friends I go to tournaments with couldn't name the 4 chaos gods between them. We like the models and we like the game, the 'lore' or whatever isn't something we care about. Across multiple editions of both 40k and AoS I've never read so much as a codex, and as much as that isn't how you enjoy the hobby, it works for me.
What your army looks like matters to you, the narrative matters to you, and that's fine. You have every opportunity to build your army in a way that fits the narrative and paint them to match, and when you meet like-minded people who make armies that really impress you that's great too. But the narrative doesn't matter to everyone. A fair chunk of people who play AoS could give a rats arse about what character is doing what where in the whoever realm, and that's fine. People enjoy the game in different ways, and should be allowed to enjoy the game in different ways.
Think of it this way, how you feel when you play someone with a super tricked out tournament army just barely 3 colors with some sand sprinkled on the base is EXACTLY how I feel when someone tells me I shouldn't use Hammers of Sigmar because my stormcasts have purple shoulder pads instead of blue, or that I can't use Ravenguard because my marines are painted Blood Ravens.(telling me I CAN'T use the rules I want because of the paintjob makes me far angrier than this.)
Not a problem - Following the exact paint scheme for a specific army bonus.
Not a problem - Deviating from the exact paint scheme for a specific army bonus.
Not a problem - Inventing one’s own colour scheme, and then choosing which army bonus suits one’s play style.
Not a problem - Really liking and following Paint Scheme A, but fielding as Army Bonus B.
Really very a much a problem - Really liking and following Paint Scheme A, but waiting to see what your opponent is fielding before choosing your army bonus to best counter that specific game.
Really very much a problem - as above, but with your own invented paint scheme.
Not a problem - Painting it in any colours (strict or otherwise), and then finding that, after a few games, perhaps another Army Bonus will suit your collection, and giving that a whirl instead
Basically, everyone be flexible, but don’t be a Phallus.
Yup. The only thing actually made illegal by the rules is painting the army using the scheme for a specific stormhost then using it as a different one. Or in other words your marines painted as blood angels cannot be ultramarines. It's not any different than these things were in the last edition, nor is it really a problem.
That's a huge change, and a major problem. Basically all you're doing is massively discouraging people from painting their armies using any of the official schemes, and hugely punishing anyone who did so already.
For example, Anvils of Heldenhammer. Their CA is busted but that's going to be FAQed so you can't have 12 longstrikes shooting 10-15 times in your first hero phase so let's assume they do what they did for every other version of a CA like this and they FAQed it to only work once per unit.
Once that FAQ goes through, anyone who painted their army Anvils of Heldenhammer is getting massively f***ed by their paintjob, because the rest of the rules are dogshit. Reroll battleshock is worthless, -bravery is very close to worthless and the soulthief is terrible for a relic. It actively make your army worse to use the anvils of heldenhammer scheme.
If you have a bunch of judicators, longstrikes and ballista in your collection and you painted your army Celestial Vindicators you're getting punished for what you chose to collect, because those units are pretty gak in a celestial vindicators army and since you already have to take one of the worst command traits in the game and a relic that is absolutely awful compared to the generic relics stormcasts had available to them in the old battletome, you're going to need to squeeze every possible ounce of advantage out of the reroll 1s on the charge and the command ability you possibly can, just to break even on Staunch+Mirrorshield or Consumate Commander+Armor of Silvered Sigmarite.
So your argument is they'd be better off generic Stormcasts than stormhost focused?
Because the preview implies you can do that despite how you paint them.
Worry not! While these rules are designed to represent the unique tactics of the most iconic groupings of Stormcast Eternals, you can use them however you’ve painted your models – just choose the rules that you think best represent how YOUR army fights.
By the same credit, these rules aren’t compulsory – if you’d rather leave yourself the flexibility of not fighting for a specific Stormhost, you can do so!
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Really very a much a problem - Really liking and following Paint Scheme A, but waiting to see what your opponent is fielding before choosing your army bonus to best counter that specific game.
Really very much a problem - as above, but with your own invented paint scheme.
I thought we are suppose to have lists already made before hand so this type of thing doesn't happen? I mean are not most people who are serious about this have lists that are already pre made or do people really need an edge when making a list?
Of course there's people who do that. Where there's even a hint of competition in any medium a overboard try-hard is sure to show up somewhere.
One concept that Warmachine has that is pretty good is that most tournaments are two-list things. It's an idea that might do a lot of good in 40K and AOS.
For those who don't know what I'm talking about, you would for example pick your faction (Stormcast, in example) and write up two separate army lists that both need to be that faction. Before you play someone, you both get to see the other's lists and then secretly choose one of your two. That way, if a certain faction is a really bad matchup for you, you can have a list to counter it and swap to that one if needed.
It is kind of list tailoring, but with rules and limits so that everything is above board instead of it being something people sneakily do in secret.
My Hammers of Sigmar will only ever be fielding with the Hammers of Sigmar rules even if they are clearly and obviously the worst ones. If I can handle it with Iron Warriors for 40k, I think I'll have no problem here.
Annnd Fmir are still destruction... why? They were chaos before, (Unless im crazy and remembering differently) and suddenly switched to destruction last update which has now persisted.. They're even part of the Norsca faction in total war warhammer. Kinda annoying.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Annnd Fmir are still destruction... why? They were chaos before, (Unless im crazy and remembering differently) and suddenly switched to destruction last update which has now persisted.. They're even part of the Norsca faction in total war warhammer. Kinda annoying.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Annnd Fmir are still destruction... why? They were chaos before, (Unless im crazy and remembering differently) and suddenly switched to destruction last update which has now persisted.. They're even part of the Norsca faction in total war warhammer. Kinda annoying.
I'm pretty sure they've always been Destruction?
They've been since Age of Sigmar exists. Raised some eyebrows back then, too.
Well they got abandoned by chaos in favor of mortals way back then so I don't see a reason why they'd stay loyal anyway.
It's also a nice callback when they first introduced in Heroquest, no chaos association but top overseers of the orcs and goblins under the wizard's command.
One could take it they said screw you to the dark gods and went back to being greenskin top dogs.
Edit: TWW Norsca itself is kinda a oddfish too since they really should be more neutral than straight up chaos worshippers. There's Norscans for example who don't worship chaos but Yggdrasil. Certainly never had associations with Fimir who were swamp dwellers in the northern Empire.
Well Mourngul went down 50 points cause it lost its 3+ Save. People wanted it cheaper so guess its still ok now. Also does mortal wounds on 6s to hit. Instead of boosting to3 damage
Also for the stormcast, asked on FB:
"Are Knights Excelissor in the new battletome for chamber rules?"
Warhammer Age of Sigmar We can't say for certain just yet, though it certainly looked like there was the helm of a Knight Excelsior in the vignette in the article..."
Mourngul took a couple small nerfs to justify the points drop. They now have the same Ethereal rule as the other Nighthaunt units. Previously, theirs was slightly different. They could receive save bonuses, but not penalties (ever faced a 2+ Mourngul?). Now their save can't be modified, positive or negative.
EnTyme wrote: Mourngul took a couple small nerfs to justify the points drop. They now have the same Ethereal rule as the other Nighthaunt units. Previously, theirs was slightly different. They could receive save bonuses, but not penalties (ever faced a 2+ Mourngul?). Now their save can't be modified, positive or negative.
They had the 'old' Ethereal bit. It never got updated to match when the rest of the stuff did.
Galas wrote: What can do a Baby to be worthy of ascension?
You're thinking of it just being a baby Stormcast....
Maybe think, instead, of what Azyr might have had as a 'native' population? That's IMO at least.
Eh, Warhammer just likes using cherubs as background imagery. The sci-fi ones for 40k and fantasy had clockwork ones, these are just the running theme and went to the angelic faction's background fittingly enough. If there's any lore behind them then I imagine Sigmar's personal messangers.
The rest of that pic is just a Prime surrounded by Devoted though in better armor than their usual rags. (i have been hoping for storm squires at some point)
Last chamber is Ruination which should be their artillery. I imagine that'll be a small Extremis level release next year or so.
Galas wrote: What can do a Baby to be worthy of ascension?
You're thinking of it just being a baby Stormcast....
Maybe think, instead, of what Azyr might have had as a 'native' population? That's IMO at least.
Eh, Warhammer just likes using cherubs as background imagery. The sci-fi ones for 40k and fantasy had clockwork ones, these are just the running theme and went to the angelic faction's background fittingly enough. If there's any lore behind them then I imagine Sigmar's personal messangers.
Heh...I'd imagine we'll find out if there's lore anytime soon.
The rest of that pic is just a Prime surrounded by Devoted though in better armor than their usual rags. (i have been hoping for storm squires at some point)
We didn't get an exact name for them or anything, but it was heavily implied that these are a unit we'll see down the road for Devoted of Sigmar.
Last chamber is Ruination which should be their artillery. I imagine that'll be a small Extremis level release next year or so.
They got too much flak for doing Extremis Chamber and Stormcast separately. That's the whole reason they got a second book so quickly and why all the Daemons have been rolled in with their Mortal matches, so that Vanguard Chamber could be rolled in as well. I don't know if we'll see the Ruination Chamber get a 'proper' release, or get fluffed out in a campaign event or something.
Talk about a radical shift in the art direction for Stormcast. Instead of generic Sternface McBolthammer in his polished armour and colgate smile they're pushing the grimdark to 11. They tried the shiny cartoon helper hero thing and have only now realized that Space Marines are so popular exactly because that's what they aren't. I love it. I just wish they had started this way and that the models reflected it.
It does fit though, they've gone centuries of countless battles against everything from Grots to Greater Daemons and most have been reforged several times now with their bodies being torn apart and rebuilt. The wear and tear was inevitable.
Though there's no doubt still shining knightly heroes in their ranks like the new art on the AoS still shows. We're just getting a better mix now between heroes freshly reforged and battlescarred veterans who Guts from Berserk would approve of.
(Edit: also just now realizing the fellow in the middle with the black cropped hair looks just like my Stormcast that uses a Bretonnian knight errant's head with the same cut. Neat.)
They got too much flak for doing Extremis Chamber and Stormcast separately. That's the whole reason they got a second book so quickly and why all the Daemons have been rolled in with their Mortal matches, so that Vanguard Chamber could be rolled in as well. I don't know if we'll see the Ruination Chamber get a 'proper' release, or get fluffed out in a campaign event or something.
Oh indeed, I meant just the small elite size of the release rather than anything significant like that. Though I'm hoping they also release a Stormkeep alongside it as well to go along with more engineers and Order siege.
GW was getting better at cramming extras and bits onto sprues but these grimghast reaper sprues are kind of lacking in extra heads and customizable bits especially for a 10 man unit that needs variety. The kit looks good, but it looks they kind of rushed that one, or just reworked the starter set cad sculpts into multi part and called it done. The chainghast sprues look better to me.
Baron Klatz wrote: It does fit though, they've gone centuries of countless battles against everything from Grots to Greater Daemons and most have been reforged several times now with their bodies being torn apart and rebuilt. The wear and tear was inevitable.
Though there's no doubt still shining knightly heroes in their ranks like the new art on the AoS still shows. We're just getting a better mix now between heroes freshly reforged and battlescarred veterans who Guts from Berserk would approve of.
(Edit: also just now realizing the fellow in the middle with the black cropped hair looks just like my Stormcast that uses a Bretonnian knight errant's head with the same cut. Neat.)
Agreed, and intentionally or no it's well done. They initially show up as mighty heroes, ideals that seem perfect. But time and war erodes that until they are still the 'good guys' overall but the perfect ideal has clearly fractured.
The Grimghasts may as well have been easy to builds it looks like they really only go together 1 way for a multi-part kit there's very little in the way of options.
Lady Olynder though has to be seen in 360 to really appreciate her, the front view just doesn't do justice to the model.
The endless spells continue in coloured plastic too.
).
type of thing...
