I'm keeping an updated list as people come up with more changes and tactics. All changes are verified, and tactics are either theory hammer or verified in game play. Tactics that have been verified are tagged as such. Notice, just because something has been verified, doesn't mean it's necessarily fact, it just means someone has success with this tactic in at least one game.
Ork FAQ 1.3 Updated rules for the Ork Dakkajet, Burna-bommer and Blitzabommer can be found in the Death From the Skies compendium for $33 US.
Ork FAQ 1.1 1.) Ghazghkull's Waaagh fixed. Ork Infantry units automatically count as rolling a 6 if they Run, and models with the Slow and Purposeful special rule exchange it for Relentless instead. All non-fleeing friendly Ork units become Fearless for the duration of the Waaagh.
2.) Ramshackle claified. Trukks roll Ramshackle for Wrecked as well as exploded.
3.) Burnas clarified. A burna is an unusual power weapon when used in close combat, therefore it is AP3 and cannot be used as a power weapon the same assault phase it has been used for overwatch.
4.) Bomb Squigs clarified. Bomb squigs cannot be used to target zooming flyers.
5.) Cover saves can be taken against deffrollas.
6.) Ork boarding planks, grabbin’ klaws and wreckin’ balls cannot target Zooming Flyers.
7.) Units of Ork Nob, and Nob Bikers are no longer characters and thus no LOS can be taken in those units.
Tactics
1.) Shoota Boys are seeing generally favorable reviews on the table compared to Sluggas right now, seemingly due to Overwatch and Random Charge distance. (Verified)
2.) Trukks are being touted as more fragile with the hull point rules. (Verified)
3.) Overwatch appears to be working greatly in our favor with mobs of Shoota Boyz (Verified)
4.) Big Gunz and large Gretchen Krew are seeing favorable reviews due to blast marker damage changes and toughness changes to gretchen assigned to gunz. (Verified)
5.) Nob Bikerz are seeing very favorable reviews for new toughness rules, and Hammer of Wrath. (Verified)
6.) Gretchen squads manning Aegis Defense Lines with the Quad are expected to perform well with taking advantage of cover, go to ground, and Line of Sight advantages. (Verified)
7.) Kanwall is seeing generally unfavorable reviews and is considered too fragile since the changes to the KFF, addition of Hull points, and new grenade rules for walkers. (Verified)
8.) Self Healing Dakka Wagons are seeing favorable reviews with and without Kill Kannon. Generic load out looks something like: Armour Plates, Grot Riggers, Big Gun, 4 Rokkits/Bigshootas,( 'Ard Case or not), (Killkannon or not), Big Mek w/ KFF, Grot Oiler , Burnas/Lootas, Meks. Etc... (Double Verified)
9.) Tau allies, with Broadsides are seeing favorable reviews for their ranged anti-tank, which fills the Ork weakness nicely. (Verified) 10.) KFF is seeing favorable reviews despite the nerf. In particular, the ability to negate Focus Fire seems to be a large selling point. (Verified)
11.) The Dakkajet is seeing very favorable reviews and is currently considered the best choice in Ork fliers for numerous reasons not the least of which seems to be Waaagh!. (Verified)
12.) The Biker Boss is seeing very favorable reviews for Look out Sir, and new T6. (Verified)
Changes, their pros and cons.
Pros:
1.) Hull points makes open topped vehicles and maxed squads of Kans and Buggies more durable to glances.
2.) Hull points make Rokkits, and KMBs able to take out AV14.
3.) With the new "Hammer of Wrath" USR, buffs bikes and Stormboyz.
4.) Fearless wounds are gone.
5.) Snap fire is huge for Orks. Passengers can snap-fire(BS 6) from vehicles moving up to 12" (Huge for mobz of 20 boyz in wagons.), vehicles may snap-fire any weapons they weren't allowed to shoot unless they are blasts, even when going flat-out.
6.) Moving Vehicles are always hit on 3+ in close combat.
7.) Off-center blasts hit at full strength.
8.) The highest, unmodified initiative is used for sweeping advances. Warboss has initiative of 4
9.) Potential assault distance increased.
10.) M.A.Nz ignore power weapons now.
11.) Skimmers are easier to ram now, (Skimmers no longer dodge on a 3+, but on a 5+ (4+ if flat-out).) Nice for the Deff-Rolla.
12.) Aegis Defense Line will be available for 50 pts and is the perfect spot to drop your Lootas, for when terrain is not being nice to you.
13.) Lootas are a good choice for Anti-aircraft.
14.) Squadrons who's models have immobilized results can abandon the immobilized model, effectively creating a new unit out of the model left behind.
15.) Flash Gits now have the "Ignore Cover" USR.
16.) Tank Bustas "Glory Hogz" no longer have to shoot or charge enemy vehicles that are out of range.
17.) Mek tools now repair hull points in addition to weapon destroyed or immobilzed.
18.) Stikkbombs are assault grenades now.
19.) Bikers now use their upgraded toughness when determining ID.
20.) Zagstrukk has been buffed with chance to die on mishaps halved and player is able to pre-measure the deep strike.
21.) You can also attempt to regroup normally if you have less than 25% of your models alive, if an independet character is joined to the unit. And less so, You always regroup on double 1s , no matter how many models are alive.
22.) Slow and Purposeful prevents running, Overwatch and Sweeping Advances. It no longer slows normal or charge movement. Yay MANZ!
23.) A biker warboss can now smash dreads without worrying about instant death.
24.) Badrukk is able to shoot three S7 AP2 ignore cover shots with three rerolls to hit, allocating half of his hits however he likes.
25.) If da boss is in a challenge with a single enemy, every five boyz that are watching allow a reroll of either to hit, to wound or saves. Charging an MC with 30 boyz? 5 rerolls to hit or wound!
26.) You can now throw tankbusta bombs. Throw, as in 8" AP4 assault 1.
27.) Big Gunz make grot crew T7 until there are no more gunz.
28.) Walkers no longer get Death or Glory. Deff-Rolla's are now viable for ramming Walkers.
Cons:
1.) Cover going to 5+ (50% save to 33% save)
2.) KFF is now 5+
3.) Wound Allocation change means no more diversified Nob wound shenanigans.
4.) Shooting casualties removed from the front. (Could impact Ork charges but not sure if it's enough to warrant all the crying)
5.) No more Green Baron deff kopta scouting, alpha striking, tank popping, first rounds. (However, they have the new awesome "jink" rule)
6.) No more bubble wrapping your Nob with PK. (Slightly offset by "Look out , sir!")
7.) Charge bonus is lost in multi-assault.
8.) AP on CC weapons is very bad for Orks with 6+ armor saves.
9.) Snikrot nerfed with the new assault rules.
10.) Ghazghkull's FAQ'ed Waaagh is currently nerfed, as it confers max run in the shooting phase, and running disallows charging.
11.) Focus Fire rule could concievably hurt Orks as our boyz mobz can be so large that we cannot fit them all in cover. (However, this also leads to some interesting tactics such as baiting)
12.) If you allocate one wound to a model with a better save/multiple wounds, you must keep allocating wounds until it either dies or no wounds are left to allocate. Taking the first wound on the nob doesn't work anymore.
13.) You may only multi-assault if you can not reach the primary target, as well as losing the charge attack and furious charge bonus.
14.) Cover is now per model. This can be very hazardous for large mobs of boyz who don't always fit in cover.
Well if it is true, this means more troop swapping for nobs, mega nobs, bikers and/or dreads for orks.
Even if it is true, it just means ard boys are that much better. I forsee running a list with 30 ard boys, 10 troop nobs and a troop deff dread, plus my standard 9 kans and whatever else. No big deal.
SoloFalcon1138 wrote:So you had an army designed around one rule? Guess flamers were not your friend?
Not at all. I have several designs. And every one of them depending on cover of some sort to boost Orks naturally low resistance to shooting.
Horde? Makes use of cover to make it through foot slogging across the board.
Kans? Made use of KFF cover to make it through foot slogging across the board.
Bikes? Relied heavily on Smoke Cloud to survive massed fire, AP 4 and better, and str8 fire.
Battle Wagons? Used KFF and terrain cover to survive melta, etc...
If you have Orks and you aren't using cover of some sort, then I don't know what to say.
I thought the smoke save specifically said a 4+ save? If that's the case, it would remain a +4 save even with the change to 6th, as it's a specific rule for the bikes. Codex usually trumps rulebook when it comes to specific rules, and if the codex specifically says, "bikes always get a +4 cover save from the smoke cloud", then they'll be completely unchanged.
I'm more worried about the status of bikes in general in 6th. Curious if they'll get a minor tweak or a major rule change...
I wonder how I ever played orks in 3rd and 4th edition where cover saves and KFFs were only 5+.
Hmmmm.
The real stick in the ork arse is that if psychers become somewhat essential for competitivness, orks are pretty hosed. We loose one HQ slot for the weird boy and then have to choose between 1 KFF or 1 Warboss for the last slot. In the old codex there were different places you could get meks with KFF so you didn't need to take the Big Mek HQ.
Well, from what I've seen so far, my beloved Nobz are getting shafted. That alone would be enough for me to stop playing the army, what with Nobz being my favourite unit in the entire game.
Orks were fine in 4th edition when cover was a standard 5+, they'll be fine if that's the way it is in 6th. They're still dirt cheap and tough as a space marine. Lootas might not like it, but the standard ork boy's weakness was never being too easy gun down.
Against many armies you don't get much more than a 5+ save anyways. In addition, it wouldn't be completely surprising if GW completely misses a certain answer they have added to the ork FAQ at the beginning of the year, leaving KFF vehicle cover at 4+.
I'm not worried about footsloggers though, you don't get 4+ cover as often as everyone thinks if you are required to move straight at the opponent with 100+ models.
I'm much more worried about the 2d6" assault and removing casualties from the front. But we really don't now a single other thing about assaults. Considering how many pages assault rules claim in 5th, two rules are hardly going to break it
In the end, we might have to rethink our armies, but we are not going to be squashed by the falling sky. Personally I don't think rethinking is bad at all.
Jidmah wrote:Against many armies you don't get much more than a 5+ save anyways. In addition, it wouldn't be completely surprising if GW completely misses a certain answer they have added to the ork FAQ at the beginning of the year, leaving KFF vehicle cover at 4+.
Do you suppose the new Rulebook would overrule the FAQ?
The rumors seem grim to me. So powerklaws are nerfed, charges can fall flat on their behinds, anti-charge shooting is in place, nobs can get sniped, front-to-back wound allocation means fewer attacks (and I2 means we almost always go last), meaning a higher likelyhood of losing combat and sustaining even more wounds from no retreat, we are left out on the new psychic powers, possible KFF nerf.
I only hope there's something in the book not in the rumors that is good news to orkses or I'm a sad lil squig.
I honestly think we're going to have to use more shock troops to tie units up before we get into combat. Stormyboyz are going to be insanely fast so I was considering running two squads of them along with a back hitting unit of kommandos with grotsnik. I dont think we're going to have too much to worry about as footslogging now will be fast and if you run 90+ boyz its going to be hard to bring down before you get in their face.
Jayden63 wrote:I wonder how I ever played orks in 3rd and 4th edition where cover saves and KFFs were only 5+.
Hmmmm.
The real stick in the ork arse is that if psychers become somewhat essential for competitivness, orks are pretty hosed. We loose one HQ slot for the weird boy and then have to choose between 1 KFF or 1 Warboss for the last slot. In the old codex there were different places you could get meks with KFF so you didn't need to take the Big Mek HQ.
I know right! I played orks back in the day or Real Speed Freaks. IE Buggies as troops, Big Meks with Battlewagon transports, and really interested deployment rules. Back then a 5+ was a gift! Now its right. This young grots and there cover saves! And we did with with a crap tastic GREEN codex that hadn't been updated for an entire edition. We didn't have whole units with burnas / rokkits, we had 3 models with them!
Seriously though, i'm not worried. yes it sucks if it gets down graded to a 5+, but the same will always apply hopefully. IE that Boys in mass are good, Power klaws hit like a sledge hammer, and Killa Kans are fun to play in Mass. I'm interested to see how it works out. Right now I think Orks are about where they were meant to be, middle of the pack, with the potential to compete with the uppers at times. The only thing I really really miss, that random 6+ invul for "armored plates" it was so nice to have that on Killa Kans in combat and randomly shrug off a power fist.
The Bad
* Lack of rapid fire weapons means other armies are going to win the shooting game vs orks. Armies of shoota boys will no longer outshoot armies of MEQ.
* Random charge distances can really hurt orks. While the average charge does go up by 1", all it takes is to see Ghaz roll a 3" charge and it can be game over
* Nobs PKs will have to be more to the middle of the pack of orks. You can't just put it up front and expect all to be good in the world.
The Good
* A ork boy is still 6 points. If 4 or 8 are killed a turn, who cares? Going from a 4+ cover to a 5+ cover is not that big of a deal for a player with 180 models
* If Dakkajets can fly out of range of enemy normal weapons, yet rain fire down on the board, the ork planes are awesome
* If AV 14 vehicles have to suffer 2 destroyed results, battlewagons just got a lot tougher
* Allies can really help cover orks weak areas. Imagine allies with IG, so you can take hydras, a vendetta, and some MG vets.
codex for ork bike says 4+ cover save so they will always have the 4+ cover.
also as jidmah said gw would have to change the ork FAQ which says 4+ currently so unless they change that it will still be a 4+ but who knows.
and if rumors are true and they take a few hits to destroy it will be a tradeoff even if they lessen the kff save... still orks will have a way or being competitive in any sense. gw makes a lot of money on us ork players as we have to buy so many models i don't' see them gimping us to badly it wouldn't be good for business
Crimson-King2120 wrote:id be more worried about wound allocation because if that gets screwed nobs lose quiet alot of effectiveness
Too bad they are still effective normally without wound stupidness. It's WAAC attitudes such as wound allocation and other things that are taking a big hit in 6th, something I will enjoy. Watch ebay like a hawk people!
Crimson-King2120 wrote:id be more worried about wound allocation because if that gets screwed nobs lose quiet alot of effectiveness
Too bad they are still effective normally without wound stupidness. It's WAAC attitudes such as wound allocation and other things that are taking a big hit in 6th, something I will enjoy. Watch ebay like a hawk people!
Yussssss!!!!
Nothing has annoyed me more in this edition than wound allocation. I wish I could just go back to when I simply pointed at a model and said "these dice are for him"
Just to clarify my stance, I'm NOT yelling "The sky is falling", I'm just asking what you guys think about the rumors.
I honestly have used the 4+ terrain cover saves every game I have ever played. Being a new player (only a year and a half in) I'm not experienced enough to make informed opinions on the results of such a change. Hence why I ask.
It seems Orks, based on the rumors, are going to have some new challenges. I don't necessarily think this means the army is screwed, but I do worry about being shoehorned in to Greentide, which I have the models for, and have played, but really despise. I DO NOT like moving 150 models every round. No matter what the situation.
I'm happy to see all the discussion this has spawned.
I'm a ork player, and I think it's going to be fine.
KFF's were a waste of points anyway, I think you still get the 4+ SV from being behind the Kans anyway so it just makes Kans less durable.
Either way Orks shouldn't be hiding behind gretchin in metal dustbins.
For a greentide list I almost don't like terrain. The amount you get slowed by is almost another turns worth, assuming a 4+ SV your halfing your amount of deaths. Now taking another turn to get there it doesn't add any value.
Anyway battlewagon rush with the "Hull point" makes that highly competetive.
I never liked wound allocation anyway it's not like they'd go "Wots dis my arms comin' off you ave him" they'd just club him with the missing limb.
They're still highly powerful and have their uses, on the bright side your saving loads of points on your Nob units because your not spending it on multiple BP's and shoota skorcha-rokkits.
Just Cybork body and some PK's and a BP. Simple and cheap.
But the way the armor grouping sounds it makes it seem that nobz can still do wound allocations. If I read it right you group them based on their own type of saves. 6+/6+ 5++/4+/4+ 5++ with normal armour, eavy armour and cybork armour giving four different wound groups. Did I read that right?
Don't know, have armor groups been confirmed for the actual 6th edition?
As for allies, I'm going to ally with Pedro Cantor, a couple of sternguard in a las/plas razorback and a lascannon predator. Probably not the most competitive choice, but Pedro and his +1 Attack bubble have always been something I loved in doubles, and I get to field looted tanks that actually are good. Of course, the stern guard are going to be be orks in fancy armor
KrimsunBaron wrote:KFF's were a waste of points anyway,
KrimsunBaron wrote:I think you still get the 4+ SV from being behind the Kans anyway so it just makes Kans less durable.
How is a Killa Kan with a cover save generated by a KFF mek behind them less durable than a Killa Kan without a cover save?
KrimsunBaron wrote:For a greentide list I almost don't like terrain. The amount you get slowed by is almost another turns worth, assuming a 4+ SV your halfing your amount of deaths. Now taking another turn to get there it doesn't add any value.
Which is why you use a KFF instead, so you get the cover save without the negative effects that come with terrain.
KrimsunBaron wrote:I never liked wound allocation anyway it's not like they'd go "Wots dis my arms comin' off you ave him" they'd just club him with the missing limb.
They're still highly powerful and have their uses, on the bright side your saving loads of points on your Nob units because your not spending it on multiple BP's and shoota skorcha-rokkits.
Just Cybork body and some PK's and a BP. Simple and cheap.
The amount that you saved through wound allocation at the minute is greater than the amount that you spend in wound allocating as it makes your Nobz much more durable.
I think orks will be fine. Yeah 4+ cover will take a hit, but we can get other stuff in return. Some things I'm looking forward to:
Deff dreads with hull points
Stormboyz with I10 impact hits
Waaaugh letting us reroll the charge distance via fleet
Snap fire with shoota mobs and burna boyz (d3 autohits per flamer)
Grotsnik giving +2 attacks via Rage USR Looted basilisks and russes (via allied IG)
KrimsunBaron wrote:I'm a ork player, and I think it's going to be fine.
KFF's were a waste of points anyway, I think you still get the 4+ SV from being behind the Kans anyway so it just makes Kans less durable..
I... have absolutely no idea what you're talking about... Not any of it makes sense...
Anyway, the only units who would suffer from cover, in honesty, would possibly be Lootas who need to remain stationary. Boyz are used to being in the open, primarely being covered by KFF.
Generally we're going to have to see a few things: How Obscured changes, and how firing through models changes.
BUT, battlewagons with hull points? Oh yeeessss
2D6 charging is going to see us reassessing our measurement guess work (average of 7"), but Fleet reportedly allows us to re-roll. Not to mention the new Squadron rules.
Orks will also have a relatively easier time firing at flyers, since hitting on 6's is only about a 50% drop in hits, compared to the massive bs drop for other races that have few shots yet high bs.
KrimsunBaron wrote:I'm a ork player, and I think it's going to be fine.
KFF's were a waste of points anyway, I think you still get the 4+ SV from being behind the Kans anyway so it just makes Kans less durable..
I... have absolutely no idea what you're talking about... Not any of it makes sense...
Anyway, the only units who would suffer from cover, in honesty, would possibly be Lootas who need to remain stationary. Boyz are used to being in the open, primarely being covered by KFF.
Generally we're going to have to see a few things: How Obscured changes, and how firing through models changes.
BUT, battlewagons with hull points? Oh yeeessss
2D6 charging is going to see us reassessing our measurement guess work (average of 7"), but Fleet reportedly allows us to re-roll. Not to mention the new Squadron rules.
Orks will also have a relatively easier time firing at flyers, since hitting on 6's is only about a 50% drop in hits, compared to the massive bs drop for other races that have few shots yet high bs.
and killing fliers with flyers is even better with dakkajets that are flying aces
Well the board I play on I mainly only get the cover from the KFF anyways for my foorsloggers. My main concern is if they change the cover of obscured targets and the bikes smoke cloud. But thats likely to be in the FAQ.
As I can't sleep anyways, I'll just start posting anything I think is interesting for orks from that reddit guy who got the rule book handed to him by gork and mork.
- Fearless wounds are gone - Battlewagons have 4 hull points, buggies 2, everyone else 3 - Passengers can snap-fire(BS 6) from vehicles moving up to 12" - hurray shoota boyz in vehicles! - All vehicles may snap-fire any weapons they weren't allowed to shoot unless they are blasts, even when going flat-out. So rokkits everywhere, killkannon still useless. - No codex weapons have skyfire as per the updated weapon lists, only weapons on terrain pieces do. - Koptaz always have cover as long as they move - May not disembark if the vehicle moved more than 6", you disembark 6" now though. - Moving Vehicles are always hit on 3+ in close combat. - You lose your bonus attack for charging in multi-assaults - Overwatch shooting is once per unit per turn, and can make assaults fail. Ganging up with trukkboyz is going to be a lot better. - On a 2+ your warboss will toss one of da ladz into the rocket aimed at him. A nob will do the same on a 4+.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh and most importantly:
At 2000+ points you can now field 18 kanz marching in front of you boyz
Check the news section. I posted a link to a reddit thread made by a guy who had obtained the book early (photographic evidence confirmed).
What really bugs me is that you lose your charging bonus for multi-assaulting. What does that even accomplish, other than discouraging intelligent play? I used to love spending the better part of a game setting up a single, game changing multi-assault with a unit of Nobz or Paladins.
Jidmah wrote:As I can't sleep anyways, I'll just start posting anything I think is interesting for orks from that reddit guy who got the rule book handed to him by gork and mork.
- Fearless wounds are gone - Battlewagons have 4 hull points, buggies 2, everyone else 3
- Passengers can snap-fire(BS 6) from vehicles moving up to 12" - hurray shoota boyz in vehicles!
- All vehicles may snap-fire any weapons they weren't allowed to shoot unless they are blasts, even when going flat-out. So rokkits everywhere, killkannon still useless.
- No codex weapons have skyfire as per the updated weapon lists, only weapons on terrain pieces do.
- Koptaz always have cover as long as they move
- May not disembark if the vehicle moved more than 6", you disembark 6" now though.
- Moving Vehicles are always hit on 3+ in close combat.
- You lose your bonus attack for charging in multi-assaults
- Overwatch shooting is once per unit per turn, and can make assaults fail. Ganging up with trukkboyz is going to be a lot better.
- On a 2+ your warboss will toss one of da ladz into the rocket aimed at him. A nob will do the same on a 4+.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh and most importantly:
At 2000+ points you can now field 18 kanz marching in front of you boyz
Pretty great catches there. Obviously, the game is about to change dramatically.
I wonder how Ork players are going to address it all.
Also, "- Hull Points - a new style "wound" for vehicles. Any Glancing Hits removes 1 Hull Point, Penetrate Hit removes 1 Hull Point as well as rolling on the Damage Chart above. If reduced to 0 HP, the vehicle becomes Wreck." sounds like a good rule for massing lootas.
I may be missing something here but I keep hearing that hull points are a good thing. I still fail to see why anyone would take anything but fliers this edition given the massive amounts of glancing hits most armies can hand out.
Aside from the fact that only the IG, SM's of various flavours, Necrons and Orks have fliers (and Daemons and Nids if flying monstrous creatures count..?
Tau have no flier as yet, Eldar likewise, DE do, but its an anti-infantry bird. The voidraven hasn't got a model yet, and isn't that great ruleswise (though that may change with the new rules)
CSM don't have a flier either (unless flying GD/DP count), come to that, and neither do sisters..
Vehicles will still be seen on the battlefield. They can be glanced down easier, but are going to be far harder to one-shot kill..
So if the cover save is not addressed in the 6th edition FAQ, and obscured is turned into 5+, does the old FAQ ruling that vehicles get a 4+ cover from KFF stand?
Billagio wrote:So if the cover save is not addressed in the 6th edition FAQ, and obscured is turned into 5+, does the old FAQ ruling that vehicles get a 4+ cover from KFF stand?
I suspect all current FAQ's will disappear - and as such the current Codex: Ork ruling will remain, at which point it will indeed be 5+.
It's a nasty change - I playtested with it using the Pancake edition, and it notably reduced its effectiveness.
I'm still waiting on the Squadron rule changes (if any).
But yeah, burying your Nob and Special Weapons is really important now. As for 2D6 assault... on average, one should be okay - but rolling less than 5-6" is really going to result in a nasty follow up opponent turn. Not to mention a bad Overwatch firing round may decimate the boyz.
Hitting vehicles on a 3+ is a boon for boyz, likely more so a good thing than a bad thing (considering enemies assaulting ork vehicles). Unless there's a unique ruling (which there may possibly be) about assaulting fast vehicles, trukks will lose that 6+ to hit bonus with RPJ.
Snap fire, even on flat out, is quite nice.
Off-center blasts hitting at full strength is really nice for Grotzookas - may make Kilkannon a choice worth considering.
Billagio wrote:So if the cover save is not addressed in the 6th edition FAQ, and obscured is turned into 5+, does the old FAQ ruling that vehicles get a 4+ cover from KFF stand?
The guy with the rulebook said that obscured vehicles in the open get 5+ cover. The only regular way to get 4+ cover now are ruins, and those have some drawbacks to them. You can aim your shooting at specific floors and kill only those models - no more heavy weapons standing on top of a ruin with everyone else hiding behind walls.
So unless the FAQ isn't changed it goes to 5+.
As for hull points: Previously all glances could stun, immobilize or wreck our open topped vehicles - not any more. Glances do nothing but reduce your hull points by one. In addition to that, the damage table (which is only rolled on for pens) got a lot "softer" with wrecked being replaced with shaken. So I'd say battlewagons and expecially trukks got a hell lot more reliable in delivering orks forward.
Another thing to muse about: AP 2 is +1 to the damage table, so KMB on kanz might become staples now. I doubt that meks or flash gits are going to see more play than they do now though. Oh, and PKs are AP 2
So what you're saying is that a new rulebook edition overrules an explicitly clarified FAQ. Which, incidentally, is something I think we need answered in a FAQ.
TedNugent wrote:I thought a FAQ overruled a rulebook though?
The FAQ explicitly states 4+.
So what you're saying is that a new rulebook edition overrules an explicitly clarified FAQ. Which, incidentally, is something I think we need answered in a FAQ.
I'm guessing that the old FAQ will go away, and be replaced by a new FAQ, and I also suspect that the new FAQ will mention the KFF since it's always been so confusing for (new) players.
I just hoping that GW uses this opportunity to FAQ in some patches to several of the Codices. It's a perfect chance to level out some of the weaker armies.
"fingers crossed"
TedNugent wrote:I thought a FAQ overruled a rulebook though?
The FAQ explicitly states 4+.
So what you're saying is that a new rulebook edition overrules an explicitly clarified FAQ. Which, incidentally, is something I think we need answered in a FAQ.
If the new FAQ contains the same answer, we keep 4+. If it doesn't, we don't. The guy from reddit only knows the rulebook, not the FAQs.
Fafnir wrote:Check the news section. I posted a link to a reddit thread made by a guy who had obtained the book early (photographic evidence confirmed).
What really bugs me is that you lose your charging bonus for multi-assaulting. What does that even accomplish, other than discouraging intelligent play? I used to love spending the better part of a game setting up a single, game changing multi-assault with a unit of Nobz or Paladins.
Seeing as nobody except those who truly loved wound allocation preferred that method..
Generally, if you want nobz to survive better, put them in Mega-Armor, 2+ killers are rarer now thanks to a difference between power weapons being returned (DCA cannot penetrate your armor for example) Or for normal, you put 4+ armor on the ones in front, than have them take the damage. Not to mention that FNP isn't ignored against power weapons, you'll have a nice 4+/5++.
You can't "put nobz in mega-armor". If you could, they would see play much more often. As it is now, they got slightly better in close combat against power weapons, which weren't the problem in the first place.
They still have gak ld, can't have a boss pole or a waagh! banner and implode to powerfists or hammers due to missing invul save.
Besides FNP is 5+ now, so you'd only get 5+/5++ against power weapons, which is only slightly better than a 4+ save.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Something I just found:
Str can now go above 10.
So, warbosses are now officially S11 on the charge.
Between the extra I10 attack on the charge and re-rolling of charge length for jump infantry, and the nerfing of transports along with the fact running and charging is no longer allowed even with fleet, I am really looking forward to trying out my Stormboyz in 6th. They really got a massive boost.
The kid in me would love to chime in on rumors but the adult scientist in me won't allow it. So I'll just restate some previous thoughts:
Weird boyz should be a 1-3 IC or Upgrade elites choice ala BA priests or Wolf Guard or royal court. Making them only HQ was a huge mistake. a special HQ pysker could still work especially if he gives global bonuses like Mad Doc.
Boyz need Krak grenades to handle opponents AV 12 Dreds.
Other than that there is too much I want to say so I'm going to hold off. At least we now have a weak MC Squiggoth. Should be a regular choice for the codex but whatever. . .
Now that I've gotten a good look at all the verifications to rules rumors from the guys with the books, I'm chomping at the bit to see the Ork FAQ. Because short of some amazing FAQ-age, I feel like the Orks just slipped from being semi-comp, with several interesting builds (If 3 can be considered "several") to non-comp, and monolisted.
=-(
If I understand correctly, our Wagons are faster. We can go 12" in the movement phase, and then another 6" in the shooting phase. I don't know if this applies to fast vehicles only, but if it doesn't, I can see Wagon Rush being much better. Again though, we need the rules and FAQ until we can figure out what we can do.
The minuses:
1. cover saves reduced by 33%
2. overwatch fire killing, well not much since we are T4
The plusses
1. increased assault distance (word is vehicles can move 6, disembark2, then unit inside could move then assault
2. Hull point system means glancing down vehicles becomes realistic, causing auto-wrecks, if the vehicle is surrounded in boyz, bye bye unit
3. dakkajet is a beast, and lets you reach out and deal with walled off threats
4. flyers are relatively ineffective, we are already hitting on a 5/6, hitting on a 6 is no big deal, lootas can also move and shoot
5. wound allocation does not effect orks as much as you think, just dont put your nob in the front row and you are gold.
I like this idea of moving a wagon 12", then snapshotting with the unit inside. I can see myself taking "snapshots" with BS1 burnas all day long The zooming fliers thing also makes sense of the burna bomb. Being able to drop at 37" is a lot better than 13".
DakkaHammer wrote:I like this idea of moving a wagon 12", then snapshotting with the unit inside. I can see myself taking "snapshots" with BS1 burnas all day long The zooming fliers thing also makes sense of the burna bomb. Being able to drop at 37" is a lot better than 13".
another fun note, if you leave them open topped you can (theoretically) snap shot 20 S3 frag grenades if you bought stikkbomms for the unit, or, since tankbustabomms are labeled as krak grenades, a dozen S6+2d6 krak grenades Also since vehicles can move during the shooting phase, depending on how tank shock is done, we may be able to double-deffroll things
Not positive, but I don't think the Boyz would be able to disembark after a 12" + 6" move. I'm pretty sure they ares tuck in the transport after that.
Can someone verify?
Also, how do you get 32" assault range for Trukks?
And once again, not positive, but I think that it's a SINGLE grenade per unit, so only one grenade for that wagon full of boyz.
matphat wrote:Not positive, but I don't think the Boyz would be able to disembark after a 12" + 6" move. I'm pretty sure they ares tuck in the transport after that.
Can someone verify?
Also, how do you get 32" assault range for Trukks?
And once again, not positive, but I think that it's a SINGLE grenade per unit, so only one grenade for that wagon full of boyz.
that was before all the rumors now out, were out, it actually appears to be about
Grundz wrote:another fun note, if you leave them open topped you can (theoretically) snap shot 20 S3 frag grenades if you bought stikkbomms for the unit, or, since tankbustabomms are labeled as krak grenades, a dozen S6+2d6 krak grenades Also since vehicles can move during the shooting phase, depending on how tank shock is done, we may be able to double-deffroll things
Oo, double deff rolla would be nice. Especially if you end your move so that you run the same target over again in the movement phase This edition might mess up all kinds of crap, but it kooks like orks are gonna be having some serious fun!
I'm getting some interesting ideas regarding the relative increase or decrease of power in various Ork units in 6th.
Can anyone comment on these?
Mega Armored Nobz are buffed by the power weapon ignoring rules.
Lootas are buffed by the new heavy shooting rules, and Hull points.
Shoota Boyz are buffed by the snapshot rules.
matphat wrote:I'm getting some interesting ideas regarding the relative increase or decrease of power in various Ork units in 6th.
Can anyone comment on these?
Mega Armored Nobz are buffed by the power weapon ignoring rules.
Lootas are buffed by the new heavy shooting rules, and Hull points.
Shoota Boyz are buffed by the snapshot rules.
Any more?
Snap fire for vehicles. - I'll spend a few more points to give my Battlewagons 4 big shootas in total and maybe a Zzap gun. Then I can fire 12 Big Shoota rounds and a zzap gun at BS1. BS1 isn't that much of a setback for Orks. Heck, I think I'll stick a Big Shoota in each of my wagon riding mobs now! 16 shots out of 3 (for me anyways) battlewagons is 48 PLUS 3 zzap guns is mighty fearsome.
Heck, maybe I'll fill one wagon with Shoota boyz! That much dakka, even if it's BS1 is just awesome!
Orks aren't going to be crippled, they could actually become much more powerful.
Automatically Appended Next Post: EDIT: Also, the Burna Bommer seems incredibly useful now to (at least to me).
Dr. What wrote:
EDIT: Also, the Burna Bommer seems incredibly useful now to (at least to me).
How so? I'm curious.
Well, first off, it's not quite as pricy as people were complaining about.
If I were to run one, I'd take a Dakkajet with it, so I could still have some anti-flyer (or anti anything with a 4+ or worse (Looking at you, Necrons!).
But the major problem with the Burna Bommer was that it had got to stop 1 inch away from it's target, drop a bomb, then sit out in the open waiting to crash and burn.
Now, it can get it's awesome 6+ with the new flyer rules, and drop flaming fury onto the enemy.
It's still risky, but it's not as bad now.
Plus, what Ork doesn't like giant exploding fireballs?
Ok, now I get it. I wasn't really applying the new flier rules like I should have.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Next curiosity.
How will the boyz be affected by removing casualties from the front? Where does the Nob go? Does this mean the end of charging, and the beginning of gun line orks?
Or just the opposite, the return of the choppa boyz?
matphat wrote:Ok, now I get it. I wasn't really applying the new flier rules like I should have.
Next curiosity.
How will the boyz be affected by removing casualties from the front? Where does the Nob go? Does this mean the end of charging, and the beginning of gun line orks?
Or just the opposite, the return of the choppa boyz?
here's the rub
if you put the nob all the way in the back, he becomes vulnerable to having the squad gutted by a drop pod or flanking (whats this, flanking in my warhamer?!?
this is something a ton of people aren't looking at and are playing wrong, outflanking or drop podding behind a unit and gutting it of its special weapons is the name of the game kids, best place for a nob is in the middle of the mob, maybe a little farther back.
Next curiosity.
How will the boyz be affected by removing casualties from the front? Where does the Nob go? Does this mean the end of charging, and the beginning of gun line orks?
Or just the opposite, the return of the choppa boyz?
The from the front could hurt, but aren't we used to losing boyz? I will be sticking to my battlewagons.
The Nob'll go into the middle to ensure that he can't get picked off from the rear either.
Gun line Orks? Cowardice!
Also, Stikkbomb chuckas might be useful with the ability to throw grenades.
Automatically Appended Next Post: EDIT: Ninja'd on Nob tactica...
My concern is my unit of boyz getting hosed down by snap fire once I got to assault an enemy unit. Not enough boyz in that trukk to take the wounds and still come out on top during the assault. Granted its at BS 1, but could still happen. With extra FOC slots opening up at 2000, I may look into more kans, and battle wagons as a possibility. Though from the looks of things Storm Boyz may be worth taking, even if their I10 attack is at base strength.
Here is an interesting though Mek boyz w/ KMB might actually be usable in units of Burna Boyz
The minuses:
1. cover saves reduced by 33%
2. overwatch fire killing, well not much since we are T4
The plusses
1. increased assault distance (word is vehicles can move 6, disembark2, then unit inside could move then assault
2. Hull point system means glancing down vehicles becomes realistic, causing auto-wrecks, if the vehicle is surrounded in boyz, bye bye unit
3. dakkajet is a beast, and lets you reach out and deal with walled off threats
4. flyers are relatively ineffective, we are already hitting on a 5/6, hitting on a 6 is no big deal, lootas can also move and shoot
5. wound allocation does not effect orks as much as you think, just dont put your nob in the front row and you are gold.
6. Anyone charging ork mobs is now fethed. You charge my slugga boyz? Eat 30 pistol shots! My shoota boyz? 60 shoota bullets! Burnaz? Roll 15 1d3!
Orks are weak to getting charged no more.
Dr. What wrote:
matphat wrote:
Dr. What wrote:
EDIT: Also, the Burna Bommer seems incredibly useful now to (at least to me).
How so? I'm curious.
Well, first off, it's not quite as pricy as people were complaining about.
If I were to run one, I'd take a Dakkajet with it, so I could still have some anti-flyer (or anti anything with a 4+ or worse (Looking at you, Necrons!).
But the major problem with the Burna Bommer was that it had got to stop 1 inch away from it's target, drop a bomb, then sit out in the open waiting to crash and burn.
Actually, the burna bommer drops its bomb just like the kopta. Only the blitza bommer does the 1" thing. Both got a serious buff though, as they can now move 36" and drop their bombs somewhere on the way.
Funny that you mention necrons though. I went to the store on saturday to finally test my new planes and picked up a kid with necrons. I had a kan wall with a bunch of lootaz and all three bommer variants, and he was obviously list tailoring against me when I put my orks on the table, but I didn't mind. So it was tremor-cons with me getting killed for moving at all basically - in my first shooting phase we both realized that almost every single unit I had on the board was AP4 (grotzookaz. suppa-shootas, skorcha-missiles. skorcha bomms, boom bomms, deff guns). Well, end of the story, I shot him off the table without my boyz leaving my deployment zone. The skorcha bommer and the dakka jet did amazing, the blitza bommer lost all his weapons and was immobilized turn 2 though. He was terrified of the thought of me dropping melta bombs on his AV13 stuff. But, as irony has it, when I called my Waagh! the useless grot gunner in the back(last weapon remaining) blasted his C'Tan shard off the table with his six big shoota shots
l0k1 wrote:My concern is my unit of boyz getting hosed down by snap fire once I got to assault an enemy unit. Not enough boyz in that trukk to take the wounds and still come out on top during the assault. Granted its at BS 1, but could still happen. With extra FOC slots opening up at 2000, I may look into more kans, and battle wagons as a possibility.
I wouldn't worry too much about overwatch. The biggest possible unit of marines is the black templar troops choice, totaling 20 boltguns. 20 bolt guns (or any other 40 shots wounding on 4+ and ignoring 6+ armor) at BS1 result in 3.33 dead orks, or 2.22 if you have the KFF nearby. If you had charged that unit at current rules, you would have taken much more fearless wounds than that. In comparrison: 40 Lasguns kill 4.44 orks. Just don't go charging into veteran squads with four heavy flamers or similar, that might hurt.
Though from the looks of things Storm Boyz may be worth taking, even if their I10 attack is at base strength.
Storm boyz finally got that little something they needed over regular boyz. Whether this makes them awesome or just on par with boyz remains to be seen. The new mishap table (only 1/6 change to get killed) makes Zagstrukk a lot more interesting, too.
Here is an interesting though Mek boyz w/ KMB might actually be usable in units of Burna Boyz
How so? The still have a higher chance to kill themselves than a terminator or MAN. To add insult to injury, they even have a higher chance to kill themselves than to take a single hull point off an AV13 vehicle. Until they are at least allowed to take boss poles(you know, like shown on the model itself), my meks stay in my bitz box.
It's still only one shot and 24" on a model that costs 15 points at least. KMB might work on killa kanz and maybe even koptaz (too lazy to do the math) but not on meks. Deff gunz are better than KMB and you don't want to waste 15 templates by shooting a vehicle.
Dreads? No wai! Big Stompy is now more unstoppable than ever with 3 hull points and no damage results from shaken, he'll just walk over to the enemy and have a field day with his four DCCW
Jid: Yeah the overwatch thing is a good point, while other races actually pay for their guns, orks are balanced to have BS2 so having BS1 really isn't as big of a deal as with other armies.
I had /completely/ forgotton about stormboys, if you hop them in a trukk you're looking at
6+1 trukk move
12+1d6 unit move
2d6 charge range
I'm pretty sure any unit can get in a trukk, but they just can't START in a trukk.
Another thought.
Rokkit Buggies just got a lot more deadly in squads due to hull points. And that is going both ways.
Unless the squad rules have changed.
Lastly, does anyone know anything about bikes? I was thinking of building up a biker boy army, and I'm wondering if it's still a good idea.
Boo. That's right.
Also, read this in the main thread. Can anyone break this down a little better?
With the uncontrollable movement removed from rage, and the nerf to power weapons, which means that you can take a regular 2+ save and FnP in addition more often, does this means that a unit of MANz lead by Grotznik would be an extremely survivable and hard-hitting unit?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, just read this.
"First turn assault disallowed when scouting or infiltrating"
Which means Kopta first turn transport popping is over.
This puts rokkit buggies well in the lead now.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also just read that bikes Turbo Boost 12 now.
Im honestly worried about charge ranges now however. I feel like with having to kill boyz in the front now due to shooting, as well as random charge distances, its going to make for a lot of situations where we are just out of range or have to wait another turn to charge/risk getting counter charged.
That and everyone taking snipers to pick off nobs :/
matphat wrote:Boo. That's right.
Also, read this in the main thread. Can anyone break this down a little better?
With the uncontrollable movement removed from rage, and the nerf to power weapons, which means that you can take a regular 2+ save and FnP in addition more often, does this means that a unit of MANz lead by Grotznik would be an extremely survivable and hard-hitting unit?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, just read this.
"First turn assault disallowed when scouting or infiltrating"
Which means Kopta first turn transport popping is over.
This puts rokkit buggies well in the lead now.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also just read that bikes Turbo Boost 12 now.
I thought grotsnik was 1 scalpal short of a medpack and that is what made him completely bollocks to use? I had the exact same thought about using dok with a squad for the +2A on the whole squad, and giving out cybork nilly willy to wazdaka (if i took em in 2nd FOC)/meganobz etc
no first turn auto hitting buzzsaw hits on never before moved vehicles? drat. guess they will just have to be outflanked
12" turbo boost on bikes?? i assume it's during shooting phase so will be able to move 12" then shoot or turbo boost another 12"?
The battle wagons suffer from the hull points too. Now if you get glanced 4 times, you're wrecked.
On the other hand, if you suffer a glancing hit, you DO NOT roll on the damage chart. So a glance doesn't automatically stop you from moving or shooting.
Grundz wrote:for those of you that use buggies, what do you equip them with anyway? I always thought they were a huge waste.
Tl rokkits
It's REALLY cheap and fast and with the two hull points they could last A LOT longer...Though now I have to choose between them stormboyz planes and bikes D=
Buggies with TL Rokkits, and I also like the wartrakk option for difficult terrain re-rolls.
Squardon of three has 6 hull points, AV 10 all around.
They have never failed to do their job.
Remember, TL make Ork shooting 50% hit!
=D
Automatically Appended Next Post: This is of course, if nothing changes to squadron rules.
true but only on 6's. I think pk's are the answer to av14 . that or deff rollas. a deffrolla can now really wreck stuff d6 so 3.5 average str 10 hits .. plus the ram.
note also the boarding plank just got more interesting too
9 TL rokkits around seem like enough to do the job, and cheaply too.
Also, they draw a lot of fire which is also nice for your PKs to get in and do the job up close.
How many points does the following cost (apologies for leaving the counting to all you Ork generals)?
3 Dakkajets
45 Lootas
4x20 or 30 Shoota Boyz with Nobz and as many rokkits as you can cram in
I think that would be a reasonable starting point for an Ork army in the 6th edition. I know that atleast from an IG or Necron perspective, footslogga Orks seem like a much stronger opponent than let's say oldschool ( ) Grey Knights or Space Wolves. Orks have no real trouble killing flyers with their shooting because their firepower is all about numbers and nothing about ballistic skill. They can also get their own flyers, and their army can be built to be able to survive a pretty strong alpha strike.
3 dakka jets with the mandatory extra shoota are 360, 45 lootaz are 675 and 120 shoota boyz are 880 without special weapons, so with an HQ you'd already scratch 2000.
Never put rokkits in mobz of boyz.
You can get a max of three, at BS2, and then waste all that running or shooting for a fairly bad chance you'll hit something with them.
If anything add big shootas.
This has not changed in 6th.
Jidmah wrote:3 dakka jets with the mandatory extra shoota are 360, 45 lootaz are 675 and 120 shoota boyz are 880 without special weapons, so with an HQ you'd already scratch 2000.
Well, the Lootas and the Dakkajets will probably be able to carry their weight, so you'd have to cut down on the Boyz a little
Really annoyed about what they've done with reserves.
I really, really, really like Snikrot and his boyz, but now they're complete garbage. The only positive thing to come out of it is that there'll be more room in my case, knowing that I can leave my kommandoes back home when I leave town after the summer.
I am interested in trying a list with stormboys and zagstruk in the fast attack with two jets. At least two battlewagons, not sure what will be in them yet. Lootas in one could be interesting, not sure yet.
All in all very excited about starting orks in this edition.,
Fafnir wrote:Really annoyed about what they've done with reserves.
I really, really, really like Snikrot and his boyz, but now they're complete garbage. The only positive thing to come out of it is that there'll be more room in my case, knowing that I can leave my kommandoes back home when I leave town after the summer.
You cannot assault on the turn you come from reserves. This includes normal walk-on reserves, deepstrike, outflank, and Snikrot's Ambush. Scouts and Infiltrators are also unable to assault on the first turn.
Considering the nerfs between Koptas, Nobz, and Kommandoes, I think I'll be shelving my Orkz for this edition. Nobz and Kommandoes are my favourite Ork units (hell, Nobz are my favourite unit in the entire game), and they've taken such a huge hit that they're really not worth taking anymore.
QuietOrkmi wrote:So just read double FOC at 2000+ matches... does this mean 18 Rokkit buggies?
Does this mean we can take an entire armada (6 units of 2) Deff koptas and dismantle enemy armor before they get to move?
No, because you may no longer assault on turn 1 if you used infiltrate or scout.
Does this mean that Flashgits can bring their own ride with the extra HS slot?
Sure, why not?
Does this mean I can run almost nothing but one of the most un-assaultable units in the game (15 burnas) and minimum troops?
The most un-assaultable unit still dies like boyz to shooting. It hasn't been a good idea to footsloog ork elites before, and there is no reason for it to be viable now.
Does this mean that Spam armies will be ridiculous as people run 15 Battle Wagons with Deff Rollas and a KFF built in there somewhere?
As pointed out many times before, a battlewagon is not dangerous by itself. Spamming that many battlewagons is on par with spamming rhinos and then attempting to storm-bolter everything. A battlewagon without dangerous cargo is worthless.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Fafnir wrote:You cannot assault on the turn you come from reserves. This includes normal walk-on reserves, deepstrike, outflank, and Snikrot's Ambush. Scouts and Infiltrators are also unable to assault on the first turn.
Considering the nerfs between Koptas, Nobz, and Kommandoes, I think I'll be shelving my Orkz for this edition. Nobz and Kommandoes are my favourite Ork units (hell, Nobz are my favourite unit in the entire game), and they've taken such a huge hit that they're really not worth taking anymore.
I wouldn't call nobz out just yet. If the wound allocation rules really work as described, you could have two or three slugga nobz in 'eavy armor soak up all the wounds, effectively doing the same you're doing right now. And if big choppas become power mauls or power axes nob mobz are going to be nuts.
Besides, where did you get that "can not assault from reserves" from? Haven't seen that one yet. Just the FAQ about powers used before movement made it into the rulebook itself.
I was originally worried for the orks between the rapid fire being able to move and shoot one shot full range still (fire warriors en masse will be damn scary.) And casualties coming off the front. But after reading this article im alot less worried but the book will be in my hands soon!!! i cant wait, then i will be able to tell for sure until then WAAAAAAAAAAGGHHHHH!!!!!
Snap fire is not nearly as big of a drawback to orks as other armies. An ork snap firing loses 50% of their total hits. A MEQ snap firing loses 75% of his total hits.
Since orks get lots of dice to make up for the lack of BS normally, it means that when lootas are making a snap fire after moving, they will hit with more shots than a unit of say .. long fangs. In fact 15 lootas snap firing are still pretty deadly to most light armor.
Question about reserves from a sneaky git who allways bring 2x2 koptas, 2x15 kommandos and 1x15 redskull kommandoes led by snikrot.
Are the "no charge on turn 1" bit to be read as "no charging on game-turn ONE" or "no charging on the turn the unit arrives on the board(say via outflank), ie their turn one"??
I think that's my shelf or not shelf question for my bloodaxe army...
Orks will be just fine, and those that love orks for the fact that they are orks and not based upon pie charts and rule bending will continue to have fun with them.
People need to play what they like and stop worrying so damn much about number crunching and rules lawyering...
Jag_Calle wrote:Question about reserves from a sneaky git who allways bring 2x2 koptas, 2x15 kommandos and 1x15 redskull kommandoes led by snikrot.
Are the "no charge on turn 1" bit to be read as "no charging on game-turn ONE" or "no charging on the turn the unit arrives on the board(say via outflank), ie their turn one"??
I think that's my shelf or not shelf question for my bloodaxe army...
//Calle
You may not charge on turn if you used infiltrate or scout.
I have not seen anybody with a rulebook confirm that you can not charge from reserves, so as far as I'm aware, it's a self-containing rumor.
Voodoo Boyz wrote:So I'm wondering if Kan Wall is the new way to go, or if an overload of Wagons plus fast stuff is still a decent way to move forward with the army?
We don't know yet. Squad rules changed and vehicles seem to a lot less resistant. Plus we don't know if they still give cover to the boyz, which based on the wound allocation system seems to not be the case. Wait for the rulebook and then play a few games and see an it works
I had considered doing a feral themed list a few years ago and collected a bunch of boar boys as bikers so my question is under 6th rules will the unit of nobz on bikes + boss on bike be competetive and if so how?
If all goes well, and Orks get FAQed so that Nobs have power axes, and we get to keep the 4+ smoke cloud save, then yes, you could still run a Nob biker army and do well.
Probably not QUITE as well as 5th, but who knows, there is potential to do even better.
Which is good, because I was about to build some bikers.
=D
Well you don't have to vary the equipment on every guy anymore which could only make the units cheaper which may mean more PK's or other bikers added to the unit. I was running a full unit of biker nobz + boss + 3 battlewagons with 18 guys in each + IC with forcefield and a few buggies to zoom up and block charge paths. I cant remember if I had two units of bikers or not though... been a few years.
The battelwagons were stegadons dragging landraiders, buggies were snotwagons and bikes were savage boarboys with bike bases.
Just so many if's! I'm hoping that my wagons don't get to squishy but with the AV 14 and the hull points and a mek they should still be ok. I think mad dok and a pack of meganobs now just got a lot more fun to watch go raging through things.
I'm about to start making buggies as we speak XD along with my 30 stormboyz zagstruk and 6 bikes...because everything I've read points towards bring the fastest meanest gits ou can find!
I'd hold off an extra week for the FAQ if you are building solely on the premise that you are building strong units. The FAQ may change everything.
That said, I'm dying to see if anything has changed for Ork bikes.
Because I love the idea of a biker army.
I imagine my Ork lists will look similar to what they are now plus 2 Dakkajets.
About Nobz, back before I understood Wound Allociation in 5th I would run a full squad of Nobz(the AoBR Nobz) just bare with a Painboy and they still wrecked their fair share. I don't think the Wound Allocation thing is that big a deal.
Its a big deal when a unit of 10 nobz+dok on bikes with a boss could take 13 wounds after a cover save+FNP/invuln before it lost a single model. Thats great if you are pushing those guys but if your opponent is pushing those models it becomes a real kick in the pants.
I feel your pain brothers....I have about ten k of ork now and therefore really need them to stay competitive lol
Grot mega tank with grot zookas could work.....go twelve and then snap fire masses of templates....
Also I have fifteen Kanz from my imperial armour eight list with six dread mobs........ So if you can adjust the foc at two k...... You could potentially run thirty Kanz as you can have squadrons of five as fast attack......I would need to buy some more but that could be full of win.
Also kill kannons on bw could be win.......fire after going twelve.....sweet.
Worried about snikrot, kommandos, deff koptas and nob bikers though.......let's hope the KFC will stay at 4up through FAQ
matphat wrote:Never put rokkits in mobz of boyz.
You can get a max of three, at BS2, and then waste all that running or shooting for a fairly bad chance you'll hit something with them.
If anything add big shootas.
This has not changed in 6th.
I would say your wrong, the rokkits add a chance of killing something at range.
Two rokkits give a above average chance of hitting something. I often get two shots with each rokkits before I charge and sometimes more afterwards.
Mass rokkit fire is devastating on transport vehicles. Sometimes it works others it doesn't but the chance is worth having.
matphat wrote:Never put rokkits in mobz of boyz.
You can get a max of three, at BS2, and then waste all that running or shooting for a fairly bad chance you'll hit something with them.
If anything add big shootas.
This has not changed in 6th.
I would say your wrong, the rokkits add a chance of killing something at range.
Two rokkits give a above average chance of hitting something. I often get two shots with each rokkits before I charge and sometimes more afterwards.
Mass rokkit fire is devastating on transport vehicles. Sometimes it works others it doesn't but the chance is worth having.
I wont deny that more rokkits are always good. I just think that Orks aren't particularly versatile on the unit level. Orks run Specific to general as a hard and fast rule.
If I take rokkits in my boyz mobs, I'm either wasting 54 shoota shots (for shoota boyz) or I'm wasting a running move (For choppa boyz) to try and bring down a tank.
Instead, I'll put the points in rokkits on something else (Buggy, Wagon, Kan) where it's role is more specific.
But, if it works for you, I say, do it up. I just like my orks to focus on their particular strengths.
Just had a thought about Grot Riggers. Do you reckon they'd be Errata'd to be able to fix a Hull Point on 4+? It doesn't seem unreasonable to me, and it would be pretty useful.
Otherwise, there's not much hope for Mechanised Ork Lists. Particularly Kans (sorry Kan Wall) will probably be hit hard by this Hull Point malarkey. I can't imagine them having more than 2 Hull Points, and two glancing hits on a Killa Kan is not hard to acheive with one round of Bolter Fire
The Shadow wrote:Just had a thought about Grot Riggers. Do you reckon they'd be Errata'd to be able to fix a Hull Point on 4+? It doesn't seem unreasonable to me, and it would be pretty useful.
Otherwise, there's not much hope for Mechanised Ork Lists. Particularly Kans (sorry Kan Wall) will probably be hit hard by this Hull Point malarkey. I can't imagine them having more than 2 Hull Points, and two glancing hits on a Killa Kan is not hard to acheive with one round of Bolter Fire
That would be grand! I'd love to see a reason to start taking them. Only a few days till we know, with FAQs hopefully dropping on the 30th or the 1st.
However, keep in mind, regarding Kans, that if we get to distribute glances in the squad, that would be 6 hull points per squad, which isn't bad at all. There is still hope for Kans.
The Shadow wrote:Otherwise, there's not much hope for Mechanised Ork Lists. Particularly Kans (sorry Kan Wall) will probably be hit hard by this Hull Point malarkey. I can't imagine them having more than 2 Hull Points, and two glancing hits on a Killa Kan is not hard to acheive with one round of Bolter Fire
I can't be arsed to check codex but kans are front armour eleven....how can you glance with a bolter......or are we now saying bolsters glance on sixes or something?
Front Armour 11, huh? Well that does show the Inner Speed Freek in me... Though there's still tons of stuff that can still glance it.
And yeah, matphat, that's a good point about allocation, although we still don't know how allocation will work. Do we? If we do, it may be different for Walkers.
Lovepug13 wrote:Worried about snikrot, kommandos, deff koptas and nob bikers though.......let's hope the KFC will stay at 4up through FAQ
Koptas lose their scout move but get a nice cover save from the jink rule. So, no more transport-popping in turn one, but at least they get some chances to be still alive (and killing tanks) by turn two...
Frothmog wrote:At 2000 points or more people may just be going Kan Horde rather than Kan wall.
Wrongness?...
Big Mek with KFF Big Mek with KFF Big Mek with KFF Big Mek with KFF
Gretchin - 18 with herder
Gretchin - 18 with herder
Gretchin - 17 with herder
Gretchin - 17 with herder
Deff Dread with 4 DCCW, rigger, armor plates
Deff Dread with 4 DCCW, rigger, armor plates
Deff Dread with 2 KMB, rigger, armor plates
Deff Dread with 2 KMB, rigger, armor plates
Killa Kanz with KMB - 3
Killa Kanz with KMB - 3
Killa Kanz with KMB - 3
Killa Kanz with KMB - 3
Killa Kanz with Grotzooka - 3
Killa Kanz with Grotzooka - 3
2000 points.
This list makes me happy. Though I'm thinking of making a list of gunline Orks in a fortress of redemption. 6 units of 10 lootas........that's all I got so far but still leaves me wanting more dakka! Lol
The Shadow wrote:Front Armour 11, huh? Well that does show the Inner Speed Freek in me... Though there's still tons of stuff that can still glance it.
And yeah, matphat, that's a good point about allocation, although we still don't know how allocation will work. Do we? If we do, it may be different for Walkers.
Well, there is one guy who got his book today, who commented in the 6th ed. rumor thread. He said that allocating glances and pens works just like infantry wounds now.
So, if this is true, that means you stagger your kans, put a glance on one, move another to the front and the glanced one to the back, and now you can allocate the next glance to the fresh Kan.
Of course, two glances will pop a kan, but you can use placement to keep a Kan with one glance alive longer.
labmouse42 wrote:The Bad
* Lack of rapid fire weapons means other armies are going to win the shooting game vs orks. Armies of shoota boys will no longer outshoot armies of MEQ.
* Random charge distances can really hurt orks. While the average charge does go up by 1", all it takes is to see Ghaz roll a 3" charge and it can be game over
* Nobs PKs will have to be more to the middle of the pack of orks. You can't just put it up front and expect all to be good in the world.
The Good
* A ork boy is still 6 points. If 4 or 8 are killed a turn, who cares? Going from a 4+ cover to a 5+ cover is not that big of a deal for a player with 180 models
* If Dakkajets can fly out of range of enemy normal weapons, yet rain fire down on the board, the ork planes are awesome
* If AV 14 vehicles have to suffer 2 destroyed results, battlewagons just got a lot tougher
* Allies can really help cover orks weak areas. Imagine allies with IG, so you can take hydras, a vendetta, and some MG vets.
ghaz has always had random charge distance.
good no retreat seems to be gone.
Im still a total noob to tabletop gaming but it just doesnt seem like the orks got much help at all with 6th. Dont take me wrong i love my orks more than any other army but after reasing this thread seeing the paychic powers and reading kans or bust from a few different places color me discouraged. Maybe you guys feel differently but im still REALLY new and i got my snikrot and ghazzy all painted bought a zagstruk and stormboys (even before reading all this 6th stuff) and im just disheartened to know i have all of these wonderful orky creations and most of the things I thought I would like I'm just ugh lol I only own 5 wagons no deff dreads or kans and everythinf else is infantry in some form or fashion. Maybe its just me and I'm melancholy...I guess I just need to wait on my book to get here and hope and pray I can make a viable list. Sorry for the long sad rant just feeling the hurt out of all theae rumors.
Orkz should still work in 6th, but their versatility has been canned. Which is a shame, since I loved Orkz for being the most versatile army in the game. If you were competent, you could play them with whatever style suited your interests, and could do fairly well. I'm thinking those days are gone. They'll be sliding into what has become the standard for most other armies, with much less internal balance, stressing two or three major effective builds over everything else.
Essentially, it looks like kanbash and horde orkz will be the main players.
As someone who prefers spamming Nobz, I'm not happy at all.
Fafnir wrote:Orkz should still work in 6th, but their versatility has been canned. Which is a shame, since I loved Orkz for being the most versatile army in the game. If you were competent, you could play them with whatever style suited your interests, and could do fairly well. I'm thinking those days are gone. They'll be sliding into what has become the standard for most other armies, with much less internal balance, stressing two or three major effective builds over everything else.
Essentially, it looks like kanbash and horde orkz will be the main players.
As someone who prefers spamming Nobz, I'm not happy at all.
I have FORTY wysiwyg nobs because I wanted to keep trying 5 wagon spam list. I dont mind taking a horde list but they (hopefully not) killed kommandos with snik and in that way I'm wondering where I can even fit ghazzy now with that stupid slow and purposeful. Dont get me wrong I love orky randomness but some of the rules (zag losing D3 boys if he assaults in the same turn as he deep strikes) is just over the top silly. I dunno feeling the loss of the greenskin fun lol I think it's mostly te bottleneck feeling. Like I have to take 1 or the other or the game is auto over. (I know I know the sky is falling)
Now, has a vehicle counting as obscured been reduced to a 5+ save?
And won't overwatch/reactive fire not be as effective AGAINST Orks in the case of a KFF? It's still shooting so that BS1 effectiveness from marines just got hurt more.
Dr. What wrote:Now, has a vehicle counting as obscured been reduced to a 5+ save?
And won't overwatch/reactive fire not be as effective AGAINST Orks in the case of a KFF? It's still shooting so that BS1 effectiveness from marines just got hurt more.
Everything I have read says 5+ unless FAQ'd which makes me not want to take 2 meks anymore =\
Heck, if techmarines and techpriests are supposed to be able to restore d3 hullpoints, then maybe the mek's tools will grant that too?
Heck, I might park my battlewagons with the AV14 facing the foe, send my mighty planes forward as heralds of the dakka that will pursue. I will create a fortress of Orky horror not seen since Ghazghkull's return to Armageddon!
Dr. What wrote:Isn't a 5+ better than a 6+ or no save at all?
Heck, if techmarines and techpriests are supposed to be able to restore d3 hullpoints, then maybe the mek's tools will grant that too?
Heck, I might park my battlewagons with the AV14 facing the foe, send my mighty planes forward as heralds of the dakka that will pursue. I will create a fortress of Orky horror not seen since Ghazghkull's return to Armageddon!
Lol what kind of planes? Like I said I know I know the sky is falling. Just wondering what else I'm going to have to buy to stay in the loop...
The Shadow wrote:Just had a thought about Grot Riggers. Do you reckon they'd be Errata'd to be able to fix a Hull Point on 4+? It doesn't seem unreasonable to me, and it would be pretty useful.
Otherwise, there's not much hope for Mechanised Ork Lists. Particularly Kans (sorry Kan Wall) will probably be hit hard by this Hull Point malarkey. I can't imagine them having more than 2 Hull Points, and two glancing hits on a Killa Kan is not hard to acheive with one round of Bolter Fire
As I have written before, kanz have already been confirmed as being 3 hull points, only one with two for our codex are buggies. You can also no longer kill kanz (or battlewagons, trukks, buggies) by glancing them once or twice. It's also impossible to prevent them from moving or shooting through glances. If you consider that you need to fail three 5+ saves in order to lose a vehicle, rather than one 4+ save, vehicles actually got more durable in the first turns. In addition all vehicles can now move 18" if they don't plan on disembarking models, so a battlewagon rush is nigh impossible to stop now.
On your first turn you move 18"(+1), second turn 6" (+1), disembark 6" and then charge 2d6 with a reroll. That's 30" +2d6 with reroll, the old range was 32" + d6, no reroll.
Writing this, it makes me wonder what Ghazghkull Thrakka's Prophet of the Waagh! is going to do. Auto 12" charge?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dr. What wrote:Dakkajets and Burna Bommers mostly (though I'm a sucker for deffkoptas).
Fortunately, scratch building is an easy option for Orks and allows a lot of flavor for an army.
The blitza bommers are going to be pretty awesome, too, not that they are extremely hard to hit, gain cover, and can move 18" while dropping a bomb.
While I have seen a burna bommer's power first hand (Mine pulverized dozens of necron warriors in its first game), I'm still not sure whether they are worth the points.
The Shadow wrote:Just had a thought about Grot Riggers. Do you reckon they'd be Errata'd to be able to fix a Hull Point on 4+? It doesn't seem unreasonable to me, and it would be pretty useful.
Otherwise, there's not much hope for Mechanised Ork Lists. Particularly Kans (sorry Kan Wall) will probably be hit hard by this Hull Point malarkey. I can't imagine them having more than 2 Hull Points, and two glancing hits on a Killa Kan is not hard to acheive with one round of Bolter Fire
As I have written before, kanz have already been confirmed as being 3 hull points, only one with two for our codex are buggies. You can also no longer kill kanz (or battlewagons, trukks, buggies) by glancing them once or twice. It's also impossible to prevent them from moving or shooting through glances. If you consider that you need to fail three 5+ saves in order to lose a vehicle, rather than one 4+ save, vehicles actually got more durable in the first turns. In addition all vehicles can now move 18" if they don't plan on disembarking models, so a battlewagon rush is nigh impossible to stop now.
On your first turn you move 18"(+1), second turn 6" (+1), disembark 6" and then charge 2d6 with a reroll. That's 30" +2d6 with reroll, the old range was 32" + d6, no reroll.
Writing this, it makes me wonder what Ghazghkull Thrakka's Prophet of the Waagh! is going to do. Auto 12" charge?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dr. What wrote:Dakkajets and Burna Bommers mostly (though I'm a sucker for deffkoptas).
Fortunately, scratch building is an easy option for Orks and allows a lot of flavor for an army.
The blitza bommers are going to be pretty awesome, too, not that they are extremely hard to hit, gain cover, and can move 18" while dropping a bomb.
While I have seen a burna bommer's power first hand (Mine pulverized dozens of necron warriors in its first game), I'm still not sure whether they are worth the points.
What do you think of ghazzy with a group of manz now? I was thinking about that...get the wagons of boyz and then manz up and lootas get some dakka jets and just steam roller everything...but my sky is falling theory revolved around the hull points being the death of vehicles.
Gharron wrote:... Maybe you guys feel differently but im still REALLY new and i got my snikrot and ghazzy all painted bought a zagstruk and stormboys (even before reading all this 6th stuff) and im just disheartened to know i have all of these wonderful orky creations and most of the things I thought I would like I'm just ugh....
I don't follow you- I think it will be like this :
Ghazzy still huge, and now basic power weapon can not ignore his 2+ armor save
Zagstruck can 'safely' land farther from the target then charge it 2D6 "
and I am pretty sure snikrot can still outflank & charge
I don't use a big mek. I do Ghaz with Snikrot and 5 kommanods, two w/flamers. Grotsnik with 9 meganobz in a battlewagon w/deffrolla for delivery until they have to get out and charge as per rage. Another bw with 19 slugga boyz and nob w/klaw, two small squads of lootas, and the rest is boyz squads. I do reasonably well in local tourneys, playing against wolves, GK, BA and necrons. Space Wolves give the most trouble, moatly due to thunder cav.
Edit - Actually, I'm wondering whether I'll need to adapt too much with sixth. I haven't really even looked at flyers yet though.
XC18 wrote:
and I am pretty sure snikrot can still outflank & charge
Check the 6th ed News thread. No he can't.
Can reserves come in and charge? I'm running a 2k horde list saturday as a last hoorah to 5th...may take snikrot to see what I missed out on..
I think the planes and lootas will make a decent combo. I over did it on the points for my wagons in the past. So I'll be looking into more mobile boys squads and ghazzy with some manz
The Shadow wrote:What do you think of ghazzy with a group of manz now? I was thinking about that...get the wagons of boyz and then manz up and lootas get some dakka jets and just steam roller everything...but my sky is falling theory revolved around the hull points being the death of vehicles.
The will probably still overkill everything twice. For the same reasons as before he should be put with units that can make more use of his damage output. He is also pretty awesome with boyz and burnaz now, as long as he is the closest model, he will be taking the saves. If he fails his 2+ save, you get another 2+ roll to redirect the wound to the boyz, effectively giving your entire mob mega armor.
Fafnir wrote:
XC18 wrote:
and I am pretty sure snikrot can still outflank & charge
Check the 6th ed News thread. No he can't.
I have not found a confirmation of this from anyone holding a rulebook, yet. Would you mind linking to a confirmation?
The will probably still overkill everything twice. For the same reasons as before he should be put with units that can make more use of his damage output. He is also pretty awesome with boyz and burnaz now, as long as he is the closest model, he will be taking the saves. If he fails his 2+ save, you get another 2+ roll to redirect the wound to the boyz, effectively giving your entire mob mega armor.
XC18 wrote:
and I am pretty sure snikrot can still outflank & charge
Check the 6th ed News thread. No he can't.
I have not found a confirmation of this from anyone holding a rulebook, yet. Would you mind linking to a confirmation?
the only mention I have seen of this so far is on the dark city forum dedictaed to DE where one of the users claims to have the rulebook and is replying to questions from the users. I am still hopping is BS though because it defeats the all purpose of reserving the unit.
The will probably still overkill everything twice. For the same reasons as before he should be put with units that can make more use of his damage output. He is also pretty awesome with boyz and burnaz now, as long as he is the closest model, he will be taking the saves. If he fails his 2+ save, you get another 2+ roll to redirect the wound to the boyz, effectively giving your entire mob mega armor.
This is going to be fun.
So you guys think him in a BW with boyz? If snikrot can still come in on the board edge (fingers crossed) is this still a viable means for ghaz? just trying to work on a few ideas.
I'll almost certainly put him in a BW now. It used to be a risk to run him with Snik, but he would normally chew up a tank or a TEQ squad before going down. Now the benefits in a frontal assault outweight that surprise in my books. The question now is with boyz and Grotsnik, which goes with the MANZ, and which with boyz?
The Shadow wrote:Just had a thought about Grot Riggers. Do you reckon they'd be Errata'd to be able to fix a Hull Point on 4+? It doesn't seem unreasonable to me, and it would be pretty useful.
Otherwise, there's not much hope for Mechanised Ork Lists. Particularly Kans (sorry Kan Wall) will probably be hit hard by this Hull Point malarkey. I can't imagine them having more than 2 Hull Points, and two glancing hits on a Killa Kan is not hard to acheive with one round of Bolter Fire
As I have written before, kanz have already been confirmed as being 3 hull points, only one with two for our codex are buggies. You can also no longer kill kanz (or battlewagons, trukks, buggies) by glancing them once or twice. It's also impossible to prevent them from moving or shooting through glances. If you consider that you need to fail three 5+ saves in order to lose a vehicle, rather than one 4+ save, vehicles actually got more durable in the first turns. In addition all vehicles can now move 18" if they don't plan on disembarking models, so a battlewagon rush is nigh impossible to stop now.
On your first turn you move 18"(+1), second turn 6" (+1), disembark 6" and then charge 2d6 with a reroll. That's 30" +2d6 with reroll, the old range was 32" + d6, no reroll.
Writing this, it makes me wonder what Ghazghkull Thrakka's Prophet of the Waagh! is going to do. Auto 12" charge?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dr. What wrote:Dakkajets and Burna Bommers mostly (though I'm a sucker for deffkoptas).
Fortunately, scratch building is an easy option for Orks and allows a lot of flavor for an army.
The blitza bommers are going to be pretty awesome, too, not that they are extremely hard to hit, gain cover, and can move 18" while dropping a bomb.
While I have seen a burna bommer's power first hand (Mine pulverized dozens of necron warriors in its first game), I'm still not sure whether they are worth the points.
Bacms wrote:the only mention I have seen of this so far is on the dark city forum dedictaed to DE where one of the users claims to have the rulebook and is replying to questions from the users. I am still hopping is BS though because it defeats the all purpose of reserving the unit.
chizal wrote:
just to clear up the reserve/charging rule
All I had to do was ask nicely and get flamed for just reading 150 out of 200 pages
I've always put Ghaz with Boyz, to have him disembark and charge something by himself. He's never failed me.
EDIT: How Wagons work in 6th, I won't know for sure till I read the rulebook for a few times and start getting an idea of its flow. We also need those FAQs! If Ghaz does give an auto 12", by Gork.
So far, I've not felt the sky is falling on Orks.
Really the biggest weakness of the Ork army is difficulty fielding effective anti-tank.
With the change to hull points, and our massed fire, our one true weakness has been shored up quite a bit.
All the other new rules either buff Orks (a little), or equalize something we were slightly worse at than other armies.
I don't see any really big problems with Orks and the new rules.
I think it hurts top tier armies the most.
This is all said pre-FAQ. They still have the potential to either buff the crap out of Orks, or break them entirely. I'm not relaxing yet.
BTW does anyone has any rumour on the profile of power klaws? They get their own entry on the list which is worrying me that they might work worst then power fists
Reading from the pic that Jidmah quoted, koptas just got even more chafted...
Turbo bost is a special ability... Hence no outflanking and turbobost for save and a better position...though, It's kinda fun that this is a kick in the groin for all jetbikes, bikes, and flyers that happen to enter via reserves, being kept in reserve, forced in reserve or outflanking...
Is it true on heroic intervention aswell? As it's a dpecial rule for their deepstrike (beginning of turn) that mainly affects their assault later on...
Oh, and I can't waagh the turn I move on from reserves?
Immobilized members can be "left behind" and form their own unit.
Also, hits are resolved against the closest model - so lets say you shoot at a Squadron of Kanz - you do two glances after cover, so it loses 2HP, the closest Kan, then backs off a bit, so another Kan is now the closest, so future hits have to go through THAT Kan'z HP before going to the other one.
Pretty sick.
Also, it looks like Bikes toughness increase is a straight up T increase, which means it would affect instant death. This means Nob Bikers can only be instant killed with S10, not as great as diversifying, but it's something!
Voodoo Boyz wrote:
Immobilized members can be "left behind" and form their own unit.
Can you verify this, or are you getting it second hand? This would be an incredible buff.
I can verify it
but there is this:
you do a 3" pile in move by step in CC, so marines go, kill some orks, you can pile in 3" to make up the room lost
but when a model with different armor or special character reaches the front line, all in a sudden you have to resolve EVERY attack individually, basically slowing combat to a crawl.
When this gets released entirely and people weigh in, i'll be able to see it, but it looks like in a tourney setting you either have to risk getting your squads gutted by snipers, or have the game seize to a halt once you reach close combat.
HOWEVER, since you do a 3" pile in move by combat-step, nobs should never reach base to base, since boys go first, nobs go at I1, there shouldn't really be any room for the nob to move up when the boys behind him pile in, this is perhaps moot.
Here is another good one.
Look out sir.
Essentially, since you can pass off unsaved wounds using "Look Out Sir,". You can take a remarkably durable IC, such as Ghazzy, pop him in front of any unit, and effectively pass his save on to every other model in the unit. This would make Gaz, at the head of a mob of 30 boyz, absolutely insane on the front arc.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Voodoo Boyz wrote:
Also, for 50 Points the Aegis Defense line is a pretty good buy for the Orks looking to always have Loota cover.
ghaz would still have to pass a 4+ to pass on the wound, so he could eventually die, I'm probably more aiming to have a warboss in mega armor lead a unit of nobs with painboy, basically letting you do wound allocation as long as that warboss is still kicking, and sharing his 2+ with the whole unit.
As he said, ICs get a 2+ on Look out sir.
This will also work with a Nob with heavy army, on the 4+, though not nearly as well.
Of course this is all pre-FAQ too.
There is also some debate over when the Look out sir is taken, so I'll hold off on adding this to the list for now.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, if anyone is interested in taking a look at the first post, and seeing if I have any mistakes in the list?
Thanks!
So,
Kans good
BW good
ghaz with boyz good
bikers good
loota cover good
planes great
Fearless wounds gone -awesome
auto 12 charge on ghazzy's waagh! (not confirmed) -amazing
Klaws still being powerfist -good
Burnas could be powerswords? great
So pretty much the only things that lost most if not all of their effectiveness are koptas and snikrot's boyz
Gharron wrote:So,
Kans good
BW good
ghaz with boyz good
bikers good
loota cover good
planes great
Fearless wounds gone -awesome
auto 12 charge on ghazzy's waagh! (not confirmed) -amazing
Klaws still being powerfist -good
Burnas could be powerswords? great
So pretty much the only things that lost most if not all of their effectiveness are koptas and snikrot's boyz
Don't forget that Burnas get 5++ in CC...
Nob biker's T4(5) can only be ID by S10 (unconfirmed, but awesome if true).
Gharron wrote:So,
Kans good
BW good
ghaz with boyz good
bikers good
loota cover good
planes great
Fearless wounds gone -awesome
auto 12 charge on ghazzy's waagh! (not confirmed) -amazing
Klaws still being powerfist -good
Burnas could be powerswords? great
So pretty much the only things that lost most if not all of their effectiveness are koptas and snikrot's boyz
Don't forget that Burnas get 5++ in CC...
Nob biker's T4(5) can only be ID by S10 (unconfirmed, but awesome if true).
what does the 5++ do for them? (I'm sorry to ask lol)
whembly wrote:
Don't forget that Burnas get 5++ in CC...
Where's that, because I'm not seeing it anywhere
In the News and Roumour section, (early in that thread) there was a line that all pw gets 5++ in CC... lemme go check to see if its still there....
EDIT:
Found it... first page...
Power weapons are ap3 but give a 5++ parry save in combat.
Remeber, burnas count as pw if they didn't broil anyone... (still counts as pw if they're assualted in opponent's turn, but, you REALLY don't want to assault burnas, bad, BAD idea!)
I think a lot of Ork players are holding their breath for the FAQ to clear up big choppas. Generally everyone is hoping the same thing.
Wont know till tomorrow. (hopefully)
grendel083 wrote:Any idea about the AP of big choppas?
I'd love to use my big choppa armed Warboss again, but the powerfist just had to many advantages...
???
You hoping that's it's AP3?
That'd be broken for 5pts...
psst: Hey GW... PLEASE, OH PLEASE give is AP3 Big Choppas!!!!
grendel083 wrote:Any idea about the AP of big choppas?
I'd love to use my big choppa armed Warboss again, but the powerfist just had to many advantages...
???
You hoping that's it's AP3?
That'd be broken for 5pts...
psst: Hey GW... PLEASE, OH PLEASE give is AP3 Big Choppas!!!!
As it stands, AP6 would be an improvement.
I can't see it being AP3 (one can hope..), something like AP4 would be nice for a Warboss.
What would that mean for the choppa? Ap5 with a strength boost? Wouldn't a klaw still be better?
THe klaw thing is awesome and now I wanna take some burnas...
Dunno if this was covered, but Im not seeing how CC weapons having an AP is a bad thing against Orks. So we dont get a 6 save in CC either......big deal. Id only ever occasionally save an Ork from an assault anyways. Not a game breaker to me so far. MANz and burnas seem like they are going to be serious force crushers in 6th. YIPPIE!!! And my lovely rokkit buggies are going to be more leathal!
Fun allies idea - Demon Prince, Oblits, and a Squad of Chaos Marines in a Rhino with Double Plasma - helps out all the weaknesses, and is a decent enough piece of mobile cover for helping Storm Boyz get up the field.
Plus they're all easy to convert as "Orky" units to count as and fit with the army.
Or if you can keep them away from everything else in the list - do the GK Libby, Terminators, and DreadKnight, also a great Orky thing...
KingCracker wrote:Im a true Ork fan, Im not seeing any allies in my future other them more Orks
this is how I feel lol I kinda like the idea of chaos with my orks but then I just think back to every dawn of war game and hear the warboss laughing at dem chaos crazies and I just don't see it.
KingCracker wrote:Im a true Ork fan, Im not seeing any allies in my future other them more Orks
Well, I see the ally rules as nothing but "you can loot the following stuff"-table.
If you loot the IG stuff you have some gretchin (guardsmen) and get looted russes, basilisks or whatever you like.
If you loot chaos marines, you get so very 'ard boyz (Berzerkers, Marines, whatever), a very angry warboss (Daemon Prince or Chaos General) or Warphead(Sorcerer) and a looted predator, vindicator or a mega dread. MANz as obliterators fit well, too.
If you loot necrons, you get 'ard boyz and some funky flying stuff. Or you follow the fluff from the necron codex and received a doom ark under the premise of shooting some eldar with it.
If you loot tau... well, I guess Aun'va would look ridiculous if replaced with a grot on that hovering throne. It would fit the rules, too. <squeaky voice> "Oh no, da grot king is ded! Run!" </squeaky voice>
If you loot anything else, you get "Don't press dat" on that stuff.
As my orks share their homeworld with Chaos Space Marines anyways (lots of looted chaos bits tell this) chaos allies would probably be my choice.
KingCracker wrote:Im a true Ork fan, Im not seeing any allies in my future other them more Orks
Well, I see the ally rules as nothing but "you can loot the following stuff"-table.
If you loot the IG stuff you have some gretchin (guardsmen) and get looted russes, basilisks or whatever you like.
If you loot chaos marines, you get so very 'ard boyz (Berzerkers, Marines, whatever), a very angry warboss (Daemon Prince or Chaos General) or Warphead(Sorcerer) and a looted predator, vindicator or a mega dread. MANz as obliterators fit well, too.
If you loot necrons, you get 'ard boyz and some funky flying stuff. Or you follow the fluff from the necron codex and received a doom ark under the premise of shooting some eldar with it.
If you loot tau... well, I guess Aun'va would look ridiculous if replaced with a grot on that hovering throne. It would fit the rules, too. <squeaky voice> "Oh no, da grot king is ded! Run!" </squeaky voice>
If you loot anything else, you get "Don't press dat" on that stuff.
As my orks share their homeworld with Chaos Space Marines anyways (lots of looted chaos bits tell this) chaos allies would probably be my choice.
Also, this. I hated the idea of allies till you said this.
Now? I'm in love!
Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Good bye trukk boyz, I knew the well
Trukk boys are still are good for adding bodies to an assault, snap fire really isn't super dangerous to orks, it is more a mechanic to wear down high I high attack killy things like death cult assassins and such.
Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Good bye trukk boyz, I knew the well
Trukk boys are still are good for adding bodies to an assault, snap fire really isn't super dangerous to orks, it is more a mechanic to wear down high I high attack killy things like death cult assassins and such.
Agree. If anything, trukk boyz got more viable, because glances can no longer prevent your trukks from moving, so you don't get that huge traffic-jam effect at the beginning of the game. Anything not AP2 also has a harder time at destroying them than before with penetrating hits (33% chance rather than 50%)
KingCracker wrote:Dunno if this was covered, but Im not seeing how CC weapons having an AP is a bad thing against Orks. So we dont get a 6 save in CC either......big deal. Id only ever occasionally save an Ork from an assault anyways. Not a game breaker to me so far. MANz and burnas seem like they are going to be serious force crushers in 6th. YIPPIE!!! And my lovely rokkit buggies are going to be more leathal!
Man, a 6+ save is a 15% chance to save a boy. That means 15% more casualties.
If you wanted to play apologist, you could mention the -amazing- new change of no more fearless wounds, which could make Boyz the best tarpitting units in the game.
matphat wrote:I've got the book now, so I'll be trying to shore up rumors in to actual verified Ork stuff.
How does the ally work if they're like to full on ally or the battle brother or whatever it is.
I'd love to answer you, but I have no idea what you just said.
Sorry.
The chart I saw had like...battle brothers (space marines) allies of convenience umm like a red green blue and grey box it was to show how the faction allies. I didn't know if because you were convenient allies or if you were battle brothers benefits were granted differently.
KingCracker wrote:Im a true Ork fan, Im not seeing any allies in my future other them more Orks
Well, I see the ally rules as nothing but "you can loot the following stuff"-table.
If you loot the IG stuff you have some gretchin (guardsmen) and get looted russes, basilisks or whatever you like.
If you loot chaos marines, you get so very 'ard boyz (Berzerkers, Marines, whatever), a very angry warboss (Daemon Prince or Chaos General) or Warphead(Sorcerer) and a looted predator, vindicator or a mega dread. MANz as obliterators fit well, too.
If you loot necrons, you get 'ard boyz and some funky flying stuff. Or you follow the fluff from the necron codex and received a doom ark under the premise of shooting some eldar with it.
If you loot tau... well, I guess Aun'va would look ridiculous if replaced with a grot on that hovering throne. It would fit the rules, too. <squeaky voice> "Oh no, da grot king is ded! Run!" </squeaky voice>
If you loot anything else, you get "Don't press dat" on that stuff.
As my orks share their homeworld with Chaos Space Marines anyways (lots of looted chaos bits tell this) chaos allies would probably be my choice.
Also, this. I hated the idea of allies till you said this.
Now? I'm in love!
Agreed. Jidmah, Id ask you to marry me if it werent for me being married, and living in the wrong country and the fat that we know enough about each other to know we both plays Orks. But you always know how to say the right things This IS a chance to loot the ever loving feth out of EVERYTHING!
Have to say I was thinking of having catachans with Ork weapons as an IG mercenary band, along with the looted vehicles (of course). I was even thinking of having them covered in green face paint and Ork fetishes, as they try to imitate their masters...
If you wanted to play apologist, you could mention the -amazing- new change of no more fearless wounds, which could make Boyz the best tarpitting units in the game.
In the appendix, GK Paladins are Inf (Ch) which means they get the 4+ look out sir, so RAW they can shenanigan 50% of the time regardless who gets hit.
If you wanted to play apologist, you could mention the -amazing- new change of no more fearless wounds, which could make Boyz the best tarpitting units in the game.
Mind explaining the no more fearless wounds??
Well, the "No retreat!" rule is gone. No more to explain there. If you're fearless and you lose combat by 15, you simply don't care, because you're fearless.
If you wanted to play apologist, you could mention the -amazing- new change of no more fearless wounds, which could make Boyz the best tarpitting units in the game.
Mind explaining the no more fearless wounds??
Well, the "No retreat!" rule is gone. No more to explain there. If you're fearless and you lose combat by 15, you simply don't care, because you're fearless.
Thats great actually. I remember it now biting me in the butt on several occasions.. Had a brain fart on the term..
- Bikes now always use their improved toughness
- KFF is 5+ for vehicles
- Tank bustaz must no longer shoot at vehicles out of range
- Meks repair hull points
- Bikes now always use their improved toughness
- KFF is 5+ for vehicles
- Tank bustaz must no longer shoot at vehicles out of range
- Meks repair hull points
Screw the T6 Warboss, T5 Nobs means they can't be ID'd by Meltas, Missiles, or Powerfists. And now that FNP counts against AP2 and Power Weapons...Nob Bikers could be a facesmash unit. There's not really any weakness.
Jidmah wrote:
- Bikes now always use their improved toughness
Are we sure? It says to strike half the entry, including the part about +1 T and instant death.
The only indication we have that they get improved toughness is from the statline profile.
Considering that the Warbiker nob is explicitly listed with a 4(5) profile, I'm pretty sure. It's probably in the biker rules now. I can't tell, as GW didn't manage to get my book here today.
Jidmah wrote:
- Bikes now always use their improved toughness
Are we sure? It says to strike half the entry, including the part about +1 T and instant death.
The only indication we have that they get improved toughness is from the statline profile.
Considering that the Warbiker nob is explicitly listed with a 4(5) profile, I'm pretty sure. It's probably in the biker rules now. I can't tell, as GW didn't manage to get my book here today.
Jidmah wrote:
- Bikes now always use their improved toughness
Are we sure? It says to strike half the entry, including the part about +1 T and instant death.
The only indication we have that they get improved toughness is from the statline profile.
Considering that the Warbiker nob is explicitly listed with a 4(5) profile, I'm pretty sure. It's probably in the biker rules now. I can't tell, as GW didn't manage to get my book here today.
Never mind, it does say "upgrade to Nob Bikers."
Failure enclosed:
Spoiler:
Well that's another issue is there's actually not anything in the Nob profile that says they become Nob Bikers, it just says they were mounted on Warbikes. Which with the previous Warbike rules meant they gain 1 toughness (not for purposes of ID), become a Bike, and gain TL Dakkagun.
The Nob Biker profile says 4(5), true, but like I say, it doesn't say upgrade your Nobs into Nob Bikers, it says mount them on Warbikes.
Which the Warbike profile now reads: "Any model mounted on a Warbike modifies his troop type to Bike, gains a 4+ armour save and the Exhaust Cloud special rule."
I realize I'm being pedantic, but that's literally RAW right now. With the way they changed it, Warbikers and Warbiker Nobs are T5 and Nobs mounted on Warbikes have 4+ armor 4+ cover and Bike.
I just want to see it explicitly clarified before I go out and chuck several hundred dollars on models, lol.
So Nob Bikers are awesome now. I guess that's why they nerfed our Turbo-Boost cover save and Feel No Pain.
4 Bikerbosses and 4 scoring Nob Biker mobs at 2k pts.
Jidmah wrote:
- Bikes now always use their improved toughness
Are we sure? It says to strike half the entry, including the part about +1 T and instant death.
The only indication we have that they get improved toughness is from the statline profile.
Considering that the Warbiker nob is explicitly listed with a 4(5) profile, I'm pretty sure. It's probably in the biker rules now. I can't tell, as GW didn't manage to get my book here today.
Never mind, it does say "upgrade to Nob Bikers."
Failure enclosed:
Spoiler:
Well that's another issue is there's actually not anything in the Nob profile that says they become Nob Bikers, it just says they were mounted on Warbikes. Which with the previous Warbike rules meant they gain 1 toughness (not for purposes of ID), become a Bike, and gain TL Dakkagun.
The Nob Biker profile says 4(5), true, but like I say, it doesn't say upgrade your Nobs into Nob Bikers, it says mount them on Warbikes.
Which the Warbike profile now reads: "Any model mounted on a Warbike modifies his troop type to Bike, gains a 4+ armour save and the Exhaust Cloud special rule."
I realize I'm being pedantic, but that's literally RAW right now. With the way they changed it, Warbikers and Warbiker Nobs are T5 and Nobs mounted on Warbikes have 4+ armor 4+ cover and Bike.
I just want to see it explicitly clarified before I go out and chuck several hundred dollars on models, lol.
So Nob Bikers are awesome now. I guess that's why they nerfed our Turbo-Boost cover save and Feel No Pain.
4 Bikerbosses and 4 scoring Nob Biker mobs at 2k pts.
It's under "Amendments" in the Ork FAQ under "Two Toughness Values"
I think KFF is still really good for a boyz horde.
The FAQ wording says "A kustom Force field gives all UNITS within 6 inches of the mek a +5 cover save." Units, not models. RAW that means if the unit has models within 6, you get a +5 for the whole thing. Unless focus fire is specifically different.
What I was thinking is because glances no longer invoke a damage roll, and any Trukk that has been glanced more than 3 times is probably condemned to uselessness anyway, Trukks may still be valid and maybe even better depending on how the math works out.
But Trukk Boyz do seem kind of stupid given the fact that there are no longer any Fearless wounds.
Green tide strikes me as a stupid idea now with Disorganized charge (wtf.).
We need a thorough evaluation of the potential strengths of Stormboyz now. With Zagstruk, they are literally the only unit in the game that can assault after arriving from reserve. Okay maybe I was wrong about that, but certainly the only unit in the Codex that can assault after arriving from reserve.
Zagstrukk received a lot of buffs:
- 2d6 charge
- Chance to die on mishaps halved
- Hammertime
- Premeasure his deep strike location
I think he has the potential to become our new Snikrot. If you try to deep strike 7" away from your opponent, there decent chance of not mishapping at all, while you are still quite likely Or you try 6" (mishap chance is 53%) and gamble on the mishap table. Misplace is hardly an Issue for one of the fastest units in the game.
I think he has the potential to become our new Snikrot. If you try to deep strike 7" away from your opponent, there decent chance of not mishapping at all, while you are still quite likely Or you try 6" (mishap chance is 53%) and gamble on the mishap table. Misplace is hardly an Issue for one of the fastest units in the game.
We can't put ICs in with Stormboyz can we?
Edit: yeah that's a good point about the increased charge distance/rerolls, that will really help make Zagstruk's Swoop Attack fulfill its potential.
Goresaw wrote:I think KFF is still really good for a boyz horde.
The FAQ wording says "A kustom Force field gives all UNITS within 6 inches of the mek a +5 cover save." Units, not models. RAW that means if the unit has models within 6, you get a +5 for the whole thing. Unless focus fire is specifically different.
It's always been like this, I'm pretty sure that's that the actual KFF entry in the book says.
I admit that I do not have the new rulebook yet. I'll be getting it soon. But, can anyone tell me about how the changes to Psychers affects orks? What Mastery level are Weirdboyz and Old Zogwart? Are there any new psychic powers for orks in the rulebook? I expected to see some in the FAQ, but I don't see anything.
Madmax1 wrote:I admit that I do not have the new rulebook yet. I'll be getting it soon. But, can anyone tell me about how the changes to Psychers affects orks? What Mastery level are Weirdboyz and Old Zogwart? Are there any new psychic powers for orks in the rulebook? I expected to see some in the FAQ, but I don't see anything.
I know we have been jacked of all the new psychic powers in the rulebook.
Hopefully Wierdboyz give some kind of bonus to Psychic defense, but I don't know whether that is true.
We need a thorough evaluation of the potential strengths of Stormboyz now. With Zagstruk, they are literally the only unit in the game that can assault after arriving from reserve. Okay maybe I was wrong about that, but certainly the only unit in the Codex that can assault after arriving from reserve.
We need a thorough evaluation of the potential strengths of Stormboyz now. With Zagstruk, they are literally the only unit in the game that can assault after arriving from reserve. Okay maybe I was wrong about that, but certainly the only unit in the Codex that can assault after arriving from reserve.
BA vanguard vets do it better.
Cool, so what. Are Stormboyz any good for the Ork Codex? That's really what I'm wondering.
We need a thorough evaluation of the potential strengths of Stormboyz now. With Zagstruk, they are literally the only unit in the game that can assault after arriving from reserve. Okay maybe I was wrong about that, but certainly the only unit in the Codex that can assault after arriving from reserve.
BA vanguard vets do it better.
That's the case with MOST units in the game. There are always armies that do it better than Orks, it's just that we can do it LONGER.
And besides, this edition is pretty much the edition of "(Insert Space Marine Unit) does it better" anyway, so discounting them, Zaggy's made one hell of an accomplishment.
How many points is that squad of vangaurd vets? How do they compare in effectiveness? Cant make an arguement without doing the cost benefits comparison.
Stormboys look good, especially if timed with the wagghh
Interested to see how the bombers work with the new rules
- Strength is still capped at 10. - Abilities that set stats are used after modifiers. So Mob Rule would always overrule negative modifiers. - Charging through terrain is 3d6, drop highest dice. - If you allocate one wound to a model with a better save/multiple wounds, you must keep allocating wounds until it either dies or no wounds are left to allocate. Taking the first wound on the nob doesn't work anymore. - The highest, unmodified initiative is used for sweeping advances. It's time that the world learns about our warboss' initiative of 4. - You may only multi-assault if you can not reach the primary target, as well as losing the charge attack and furious charge bonus. There is really no reason to multi-charge with orks anymore. - You can attempt to regroup normally as long as 25% are allive. No further limitation. - You can also attempt to regroup normally if you have less than 25% of your models alive, if an independet character is joined to the unit. - You always regroup on , no matter how many models are alive. - Fleet allows you to reroll one or two of your charge rolls. So if you roll , you are allowed to just reroll the . - A biker warboss makes a unit he joins unable to use fleet given by the Waaagh! - IC no longer have move through cover or skilled rider. - Slow and Purposeful prevents running, Overwatch and Sweeping Advances. It no longer slows normal or charge movement - Bikes can never be pinned or go to ground, but get Hammer of Wrath and ignore Terrain when charging unless it's a barricade or Aegis defense line. - A biker warboss can now smash dreads without worrying about instant death - Big Gunz are T7 W2 3+. Statistically it's the same as before, except you don't need an adamantite skull to understand it. Your opponents always have to wound against T7 when shooting the crew. That's right, T7 models for 3 points a piece - All models in an artillery unit must shoot the same target, including ICs. - If bored, warbosses, MANz or stormboyz can now throw a single stikkbomb for a S3 blast. Totally not worth a single point, but nice if it's free anyways. - Any 6 rolled to hit in combat or shooting by a nob or IC allows you to decide who gets shot. TL-Shoota anyone? - Badrukk will be the bane of valuable models, being able to shoot three S7 AP2 ignore cover shots with three rerolls to hit, allocating half of his hits however he likes. - A challenged character's ld can not be used if he refuses. Nice against anyone not bringing the strength to beat down a nob. - If da boss is in a challenge with a single enemy, every five boyz that are watching allow a reroll of either to hit, to wound or saves. Charging an MC with 30 boyz? 5 rerolls to hit or wound! - Deny the witch is 6+ for all units, 5+ if any amount of weirdboyz are in the unit. - Still unclear whether deff rollas are hull. - All vehicles may move 6" instead of shooting if they have not tank shocked. Fast vehicles may move 12", for a total of 24" for trukks. - Shaken prevents shooting any kind of ordnance or blast weapons. - Penetrating hits count as two wounds for the purposes of combat resolution. I guess, if your warboss picks up a rhino and breaks it in half, even marines run for the hills. It is possible to lose combat against vehicles that deal damage during the assault phase. - Passengers can fire overwatch. Assaulting any kind of ork vehicle suddenly become an extremely stupid idea - especially for burna wagons. This counts towards combat resolution. - Burna bommers may fire only two skorcha missiles per turn. - Open-topped no longer reduces the strength of explosions. - Vehicles and passengers may fire snap-shots after ramming. - Bikers can use their 4+ armor against wounds from terrain. - Gretchin going to ground in area terrain still get a 3+ cover save. - Almost all command traits are useless to orks. Personal traits are hit-and-miss, some are great, some are not, depending on who your warlord is, and you have a chance of simply getting furious charge again. Irony has it that strategic traits are all pretty good for orks. - The KFF can protect necron, tau, CSM and imperial guard vehicles. It also works for all our mistrusted allies, but moving them into KFF range will result in lots of red buttons being everywhere. - High chance of night fighting either at the beginning or end of all regular missions. - All objective missions have silly objectives that provide stealth, shoot at planes or explode.
Could someone point me in the direction of a ruling for cover saves on squadrons? If only 25% needs to be covered, like on single vehicles, does that mean I only need one killa kan in range of the KFF to get the 5+ for the whole unit?
You allocate hits to the closest vehicles, then roll for penetration, then take saves.
Vehicles can only take cover saves if they are obscured, obscured does not have a majority rule.
So only if the kan currently getting hit is within 6", it would be able to use the 5+ save.
Can move 36" if they forgo shooting. They also have the jinking special rule, so get a 5+ cover save on top of their two wounds. Kitted with TL rokkits, they will probably strip HPs off vehicles nicely. And they get a hammer of wrath attack on the charge, which is a nice bonus.
Jag_Calle wrote:So, heard from a mate that furious charge no longer give +1 ini, can someone confirm?
And has there been any change as to how "scout" and "infiltrate" works?
Can blitza bommaz "zoom" 36" and still drop a bomb? As a zoom isn't flat out, and I couldn't find anything about it in the new faq...
//Calle
Correct about furious charge.
Scout is similar, as is infiltrate.
I think one big ork buff is snap fire. Our army was based around a poor BS, so we put out a lot of shots. Now that snap fire is BS1, we seem to be quite good at it. So, a unit wanting to charge a squad of 20 shoota boyz has to weather 40 shots, 6 or 7 of which will hit. In addition, moving vehicles get to snap fire with all weapons. So, dakkawagons or rokkitwagons seem more tempting.
Can move 36" if they forgo shooting. They also have the jinking special rule, so get a 5+ cover save on top of their two wounds. Kitted with TL rokkits, they will probably strip HPs off vehicles nicely. And they get a hammer of wrath attack on the charge, which is a nice bonus.
I was reading the book some today at my brothers house, so I may be misremembering, but if you scout move you cannot assault that turn yes? If so, I think that makes koptas even worse then before
Fafnir wrote:I think I just broke 6th ed with that one, actually.
Play objective game.
Put objective in bottleneck.
Take unit of Boyz and Ghazzy, place within the bottleneck.
Put Ghazzy up front.
Free objective.
Look Out, Sir! is on Wound Allocation, instead of taking armor saves. So he isn't sharing his 2+ with anyone. Either he rolls it on his armor and Ghaz takes wounds (or saves it), or you take the Look Out, Sir!. If it passes, another Ork gets the wound on him. (For example, he passes a bolter round onto an Ork Boy, at S4 AP5, so the boy dies.)
Can move 36" if they forgo shooting. They also have the jinking special rule, so get a 5+ cover save on top of their two wounds. Kitted with TL rokkits, they will probably strip HPs off vehicles nicely. And they get a hammer of wrath attack on the charge, which is a nice bonus.
I was reading the book some today at my brothers house, so I may be misremembering, but if you scout move you cannot assault that turn yes? If so, I think that makes koptas even worse then before
This is true. I always used them as a mobile, passably accurate rokkit platform for hitting side armours. From this point of view, they look better.
Wow, I guess Deffkoptas are T5 too...that's awesome. Now strength 8 can't ID them and they can fall back on a 5+ save. Now there's some competition in Fast Attack.
Guys, i'm afraid the Snap-shot Burnas we'v ebeen getting gleeful about doesn't work.
You can only overwatch with weapons you can snap fire with.
Per snap fire (pg 13) template weapons can't snap fire.
I'd be happy to be wrong. I'm only about 20 pages in so far.
'some weapon types, such as Template and Ordinance, or those with certain special rules, such as blast, cannot be fired as snap shots. It's important to note that any shooting attack that does not use a Ballistic Skill ... cannot be 'fired' as a snap shot.
Ascalam wrote:Guys, i'm afraid the Snap-shot Burnas we'v ebeen getting gleeful about doesn't work.
You can only overwatch with weapons you can snap fire with.
Per snap fire (pg 13) template weapons can't snap fire.
I'd be happy to be wrong. I'm only about 20 pages in so far.
'some weapon types, such as Template and Ordinance, or those with certain special rules, such as blast, cannot be fired as snap shots. It's important to note that any shooting attack that does not use a Ballistic Skill ... cannot be 'fired' as a snap shot.
Template (not blast) weapons can overwatch, but cause D3 auto hit attacks at the weapons str and AP
Ascalam wrote:Guys, i'm afraid the Snap-shot Burnas we'v ebeen getting gleeful about doesn't work.
You can only overwatch with weapons you can snap fire with.
Per snap fire (pg 13) template weapons can't snap fire.
I'd be happy to be wrong. I'm only about 20 pages in so far.
'some weapon types, such as Template and Ordinance, or those with certain special rules, such as blast, cannot be fired as snap shots. It's important to note that any shooting attack that does not use a Ballistic Skill ... cannot be 'fired' as a snap shot.
What do the mean about the special rules? basically can Lootas get d3 snapshots off?
Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Template (not blast) weapons can overwatch, but cause D3 auto hit attacks at the weapons str and AP
Yep flamers do D3 hits so charging a burner boy squad might not be the best of things to do...
IF Burna boyz fire at people charging them does that mean they can't use their burnas as Power Weapons? (Or is it only "if they fire in their shooting phase they can't use it as power weapon?)
IF Burna boyz fire at people charging them does that mean they can't use their burnas as Power Weapons? (Or is it only "if they fire in their shooting phase they can't use it as power weapon?)
the things I'm most concerned about are Kommandos and Snikrot. Now that units can't assault the turn they come on from reserves, they're not going to get the chance to do much of anything before getting shot to pieces.
On the other hand, now the only real drawbacks to Meganobz is that they can't run or sweeping advance (but can otherwise move normally), they seem like a much more viable option.
Also, it seems like battlewagons loaded with lots of guns could actually provide some useful fire-support while they run around, crashing into things
"It is possible to lose combat against vehicles that deal damage during the assault phase."
Remember folks, we can buy Wrekkin' Balls. Our vehicles can potentially break squads that haven't even looked at us funny yet.
Also, they've basically fixed everything that was wrong about Tankbustas and Flash Gits- Bustas Glory Hogs aren't completely stupid, and Gitz not only ignore cover, but in over 2000 points (and who would take Gitz in less?) can buy some Transports for them- one of the biggest complaints people had was the lack of such.
- Strength is still capped at 10.
- Abilities that set stats are used after modifiers. So Mob Rule would always overrule negative modifiers.
- Charging through terrain is 3d6, drop highest dice.
- If you allocate one wound to a model with a better save/multiple wounds, you must keep allocating wounds until it either dies or no wounds are left to allocate. Taking the first wound on the nob doesn't work anymore.
- The highest, unmodified initiative is used for sweeping advances. It's time that the world learns about our warboss' initiative of 4.
- You may only multi-assault if you can not reach the primary target, as well as losing the charge attack and furious charge bonus. There is really no reason to multi-charge with orks anymore.
- You can attempt to regroup normally as long as 25% are allive. No further limitation.
- You can also attempt to regroup normally if you have less than 25% of your models alive, if an independet character is joined to the unit.
- You always regroup on , no matter how many models are alive.
- Fleet allows you to reroll one or two of your charge rolls. So if you roll , you are allowed to just reroll the .
- A biker warboss makes a unit he joins unable to use fleet given by the Waaagh!
- IC no longer have move through cover or skilled rider.
- Slow and Purposeful prevents running, Overwatch and Sweeping Advances. It no longer slows normal or charge movement
- Bikes can never be pinned or go to ground, but get Hammer of Wrath and ignore Terrain when charging unless it's a barricade or Aegis defense line.
- A biker warboss can now smash dreads without worrying about instant death
- Big Gunz are T7 W2 3+. Statistically it's the same as before, except you don't need an adamantite skull to understand it. Your opponents always have to wound against T7 when shooting the crew. That's right, T7 models for 3 points a piece - All models in an artillery unit must shoot the same target, including ICs.
- If bored, warbosses, MANz or stormboyz can now throw a single stikkbomb for a S3 blast. Totally not worth a single point, but nice if it's free anyways.
- Any 6 rolled to hit in combat or shooting by a nob or IC allows you to decide who gets shot. TL-Shoota anyone?
- Badrukk will be the bane of valuable models, being able to shoot three S7 AP2 ignore cover shots with three rerolls to hit, allocating half of his hits however he likes.
- A challenged character's ld can not be used if he refuses. Nice against anyone not bringing the strength to beat down a nob.
- If da boss is in a challenge with a single enemy, every five boyz that are watching allow a reroll of either to hit, to wound or saves. Charging an MC with 30 boyz? 5 rerolls to hit or wound!
- Deny the witch is 6+ for all units, 5+ if any amount of weirdboyz are in the unit.
- Still unclear whether deff rollas are hull.
- All vehicles may move 6" instead of shooting if they have not tank shocked. Fast vehicles may move 12", for a total of 24" for trukks.
- Shaken prevents shooting any kind of ordnance or blast weapons.
- Penetrating hits count as two wounds for the purposes of combat resolution. I guess, if your warboss picks up a rhino and breaks it in half, even marines run for the hills. It is possible to lose combat against vehicles that deal damage during the assault phase.
- Passengers can fire overwatch. Assaulting any kind of ork vehicle suddenly become an extremely stupid idea - especially for burna wagons. This counts towards combat resolution.
- Burna bommers may fire only two skorcha missiles per turn.
- Open-topped no longer reduces the strength of explosions.
- Vehicles and passengers may fire snap-shots after ramming.
- Bikers can use their 4+ armor against wounds from terrain.
- Gretchin going to ground in area terrain still get a 3+ cover save.
- Almost all command traits are useless to orks. Personal traits are hit-and-miss, some are great, some are not, depending on who your warlord is, and you have a chance of simply getting furious charge again. Irony has it that strategic traits are all pretty good for orks.
- The KFF can protect necron, tau, CSM and imperial guard vehicles. It also works for all our mistrusted allies, but moving them into KFF range will result in lots of red buttons being everywhere. - High chance of night fighting either at the beginning or end of all regular missions.
- All objective missions have silly objectives that provide stealth, shoot at planes or explode.
where does it say we can use KFF with certain allies? As far as I know, we can only share abilities between armies that are "battle brothers". Orks only get up to "convenient ally" at best, so it shouldn't be allowed according to that. I don't remember seeing it in the FaQ either. I'm not trying to rag on you by the way, just want to know where you saw it so I can look it up tomorrow. If so, my IG just found their new best friends
Also, whats the word on nob units? Thinking about trying a large unit of them out using several barebones ones at the front to eat the initial wounds, and having 4 or 5 PK's at the back to come up and finish the enemy off towards the end. Probably going to use between 6 and 8 in a 1,000pt game and see what happens. I doubt they'll be as insane as 5th ed nobz, but I still think they'll pull their weight.
another con - KMBs now Get Hot even on vehicles, with a 50% chance of a glancing hit if you first roll a To Hit of 1, which is bad news for kan walls - I guess a lot of players will be rearming with rokkits? (I'm so glad I magnetised my kan weapon arms)
On the other hand, it's only a 1 in 12 chance, so maybe we don't care? the same apparently applies for all Gets Hot weapons for all races, even the super-plasma variant of the Leman Russ.
Jidmah wrote: - Abilities that set stats are used after modifiers. So Mob Rule would always overrule negative modifiers. .
Thanks for this post.
Does that Psychic power that strips fearless and forces a morale check still affect units that are Fearless under Mob Rule?
I think you are talking about BA's Fear in the Dark or something?
Fearless makes you auto-pass pinning, morale, regroup and fear checks, but not regular leadership tests. You also can not go to ground for any reason, including pinning.
Jidmah wrote:
- Deny the witch is 6+ for all units, 5+ if any amount of weirdboyz are in the unit.
lol, only for the unit? They are really determined to make sure nobody uses Wierdboyz.
Yeah, lame. At least you have further 6+ to stop JotWW.
MrMoustaffa wrote: where does it say we can use KFF with certain allies? As far as I know, we can only share abilities between armies that are "battle brothers". Orks only get up to "convenient ally" at best, so it shouldn't be allowed according to that. I don't remember seeing it in the FaQ either. I'm not trying to rag on you by the way, just want to know where you saw it so I can look it up tomorrow. If so, my IG just found their new best friends
The KFF has kept it's funky wording that it affects all vehicles, not limited to orks or even friendly vehicles. As the BRBFAQ is gone now, the KFF would even provide cover to enemies.
TedNugent wrote:When a Force Weapon is activated, does it ignore Feel No Pain?
They both are done at the same time(exact same wording now). A new rule says that if two things happen at the same time, the active player decides the order of operations. So, if it's the force weapon player's turn yes, otherwise, no.
So, just like GK Paladins, I hear Nobs are characters? Meaning that you can do Look Out, Sir! saves in a nobs mob on 4+, essentially meaning wound allocation shenanigans are still intact. Can anyone confirm/deny?
) Grey Knights or Space Wolves. Orks have no real trouble killing flyers with their shooting because their firepower is all about numbers and nothing about ballistic skill. They can also get their own flyers, and their army can be built to be able to survive a pretty strong alpha strike.
, you are allowed to just reroll the