sirlynchmob wrote: I have 90 painted, 30 waiting to get primed and my last 60 still in the boxes
Just avoid timed events or bring the 180 and just move & run to all the objectives til you run out of time.
I really have an issue with the time it takes to move. I play a list kinda like yours at 1500 points; but am already embaressed about how long my turns take. I can feel its annoying for opponents + bystanders who want to clear the table. You also have no time to think, always moving or rollin stuff. Almost making me want to switch armies at times...
BTW on snikroth: In 5th i used him, I'd say he's still usefull now, but if you have pre-knowledge of terrain/mission maybe.
All those trukks are just wasted chance to smoke some heavy vehicles. Planks on em is more important then a ram. Then those PK on the inside get to do bad things to good people. 4 STR9 attacks on a vehicle? Yes please.
On more argument for the planks: If your boyz manage to smoke an enemy vehicle, chances are an "explodes!" result on the damage table will wipe out half the squad or more. Twelve S4 autohits on T:4 6+ save? Bad news. A single S:4 AP: - hit on an AV:10, HP:3 vehicle? Nothing to worry about!
All those trukks are just wasted chance to smoke some heavy vehicles. Planks on em is more important then a ram. Then those PK on the inside get to do bad things to good people. 4 STR9 attacks on a vehicle? Yes please.
On more argument for the planks: If your boyz manage to smoke an enemy vehicle, chances are an "explodes!" result on the damage table will wipe out half the squad or more. Twelve S4 autohits on T:4 6+ save? Bad news. A single S:4 AP: - hit on an AV:10, HP:3 vehicle? Nothing to worry about!
I'm to the point that I don't even run a PK nob in my boyz squads anymore because explodes results are so common of, and punitive against, that tactic, that it's no longer worth it.
Yea the MANz and your warboss is enough PK power for me lately. I usually only find 1 maybe 2 targets my lootas cant deal with effectively, so i send the missile dattaway.
I usually run 4x 20 boyz and even just that measily 80 boyz takes me awhile to move compared to otherplayers. Ive wanted to beef to 30mans but thats just so many models....and i feel the extra 10 or whatever it is Lootas is better than another 20 boyz or so since they already got apretty thick meatshield guarding them as it is.
It's kinda funny, but if you think about it, Orks and Guard are about the only armies that can field Mass AV14, and neither of those have great rear armour, so are vulnerable to Melee (and we'z got da best Smashy Armer Krumpin' around!). Spess Mehrine armies can generally only field like, 1 or maybe 2 Land Raiders per.
Yea but landraiders have 14 rears. I really dont consider battlewagons a true AV14 because the AV14 side is very, very narrow while the AV12 is easy as hell to hit.
Its still CONSIDERABLY more durable than our clunky trukks, but its still pretty easy compared to any other av14 to take out.
Not to mention that Land Raiders are hardly cost efficient to field with an SM army anymore. I let my Boyz at my BT Land Raider so that I could field a Kustom Battle Wagon!
Don't let me rain on your parade, but I'm going to suggest you back off the green tide for now, and run a few less boyz. Mostly because you're going to really dislike moving all those models and trying to deal with all the complications that terrain is going to give you.
Try running 90 to start with, and see how that feels. If you don't mind it, add 30 more and try again.
Also, Orks have a lot of other viable builds that are a lot of fun and bring combined arms to the table. Don't discount those.
Lastly, MOAR LOOTAS. You really could use more.
Well, I already have 120 assembled. Granted, I still need to play more games to get used to all those models, but It'll be a nice core for a green tide when I get there. Might add in some nob bikers and more lootas. I really just need to play test units and see what I like; though green tide is one of the main reasons that I started Orks in the first place.
Not sure how WAAC or tourny people are but when i play with my friends i just measure the furthest i can move my hordy boyz and just pile them in behind that one or next to it. I might be cheating an extra half inch here and there but im also gibbing myself of that occationally, and it goes way faster. I could see some cry-hard WAAC weasel try to whine saying im using this to get an extra inch or something.
I wasnt able to play in the local tournament my friends held cuz i had work that day (an excuse to get all 12 of us together instead of 1-3 at a time...were all in Korea on a military base btw so theres no local store) and to speed it up they had a 2hr game rule. Even without hordy groups they were pressing that time, so im like "How the hell could i have made that with hordes of green?"
sirlynchmob wrote: I have 90 painted, 30 waiting to get primed and my last 60 still in the boxes
Just avoid timed events or bring the 180 and just move & run to all the objectives til you run out of time.
I really have an issue with the time it takes to move. I play a list kinda like yours at 1500 points; but am already embaressed about how long my turns take. I can feel its annoying for opponents + bystanders who want to clear the table. You also have no time to think, always moving or rollin stuff. Almost making me want to switch armies at times...
BTW on snikroth: In 5th i used him, I'd say he's still usefull now, but if you have pre-knowledge of terrain/mission maybe.
All the painting and sheer numbers makes me think of a smaller army. If I ever do another army I'd go GK just because you can do a 2500 pt army with 25 models
but ya if I can finish a game in under 3 hours it means I tabled the guy by turn 5. otherwise we could be looking at a 5 hour game.
I made a biker list for fun with remarkably 49 models, I got tabled by 5, but it looked cool and was fun to play
I found out the orks from IA8 could ally with regular orks, according to FW at last so I went 1850:
warboss on warbike pk, squig, cybork
wazdakka
Zhadsnark
13 boys nob bp 13 boys mek BS (IA8) you get mek's instead of nobs
I've got an airbrush, so painting doesn't seem too terrible. Not to mention that I'll be dipping the majority of my orks, so it should be decent table-top quality fairly quickly.
As for the time limit, unless I know that I will be able to finish 5-6 turns in 2-3 hours, the green tide will only really be used in friendly games.
I guess i never figured out how to use an airbrush well because to me it felt longer to paint the infantry with. Granted i only used one for a couple days, but i felt like i painted faster by hand.
You know, it's entirely possible to get a 2500 point Ork army with 25 models as well, and it'll be ded 'ard.
Nob Bikers.
A single Nob Biker can easily run you over 100 points, depending on what you kit him out with- and you'll have two Biker Warbosses as well, which are kinda expensive in their own right. However, you'll have 4 units that're all absolutely killy.
And crash n burn to anything that counters them. Anything that ignores cover usually has AP4 or better as well, and i cant think of many armies that dont bring flamers at all against orks.
Anvildude wrote: You know, it's entirely possible to get a 2500 point Ork army with 25 models as well, and it'll be ded 'ard.
Nob Bikers.
A single Nob Biker can easily run you over 100 points, depending on what you kit him out with- and you'll have two Biker Warbosses as well, which are kinda expensive in their own right. However, you'll have 4 units that're all absolutely killy.
Still, those nob squads are sorely missing a couple of painboys. Scoring 14 wounds on a T:5 unit is not hard for some armies these days... not so much when said bikers have FNP!
You know you can take Painboy Nob Bikers, right? And the Cybork Bodies is part of the cost.
Nob, Bike, Powerklaw (or kombination Big Choppa and fancy Shoota plus Ammo Runt), Cybork Bodies, some Bosspoles, fancy Shootas for all of them (skorchas, Rokkits, ) with Ammo Runts. And of course a Waaagh!! banner or two.
Have them as 2 mobs of 10 and one of 5, plus Warbosses? Awesome.
Not as awesome as the start of 5th, but more awesome than the end of 5th.
Tried out a MANZ missile last night. 5 MANZ in a Trukk.
Trukk got popped top of first turn and the MANZ spent five rounds walking to combat.
I'm going to give them a few more tries as I'm hoping this was just a fluke, but honestly, I think the Trukk is a poor choice. Even with LOS, a determined opponent will find a way to pop it.
Having initiative is more or less mandatory don't you think?
Highly unlikely? My luck sucks ass then cuz every time i put my manz missile in reserve the little rats come in automatically in turn 5.
Ive been stashing them behind some ruin on my side of the board. That or following behind the BWs since long as i have more than 1 you cant even see the trukk without outflanking me...its typically 1 turn of you-no-see-me
I have had a good read through the first post, and alot of the subsequent pages, and then skipped to the last 5 or so.
I want to try and mix up my army a bit more as I always seem to run the same stuff. We nearly always play 1000pts at the minute as we rarely get games and when we do we are still learning the rules. (not had much time lately).
I don't have my codex with me but I normally run something along the lines of:
I have to mix in currently:
Moar Boyz (unpainted/unassembled)
Grot Mob
2x Battlewagons (1 Deffrolla)
1x Dakkajet
4x Burnas
5x Nobs (Old metal ones)
1x Deff Dread (BS/SK)
3x Kopta's
1x Big Mek KFF (Unassembled)
6x Stormboyz (with Nob)
As mentioned, I have several Boyz unassembled. At this point I'm tempted to knock up some more Burna Boyz and Shoota Boyz with them (about 20 spare bodies)
I'm also really tempted by investing in several Trukk's (& maybe warbikes) for a laugh. Although I am also VERY tempted to get some Tankbustas as I love the idea of them, also would love some Flash Gitz.
I play for the fun of it and I would rather enjoy my game than win. Are Tankbustas any good in 6th? If I bought a few trukks, ran them with Battlewagons and warbikes would they be any good? Obviously I would LIKE to win, so I want reasonable units, but I want them to be fun.
Vineheart01 wrote: Highly unlikely? My luck sucks ass then cuz every time i put my manz missile in reserve the little rats come in automatically in turn 5.
Ive been stashing them behind some ruin on my side of the board. That or following behind the BWs since long as i have more than 1 you cant even see the trukk without outflanking me...its typically 1 turn of you-no-see-me
Yanno its funny, because I get the same luck most times as well. I swear my DAKKAjets have never seen a turn 2. Its always 3 or 4
Tankbustas and Flash Gitz are underrated, but each got a HUGE boost in 6th Edition- check the FAQ to find out what. They essentially make them some decent area-denial units, and Tankbustas can finally be used for what they're meant for.
Either way, usually by the time they come in if i dont get them turn 2-3 i got crushed by something or lost my chance with what i had in reserves and now theyre useless to me.
MANz missile cant shoot up without a distraction
Dakkajets tend to have issues if i dont get them all out at once
And with that new FAQ stating i cant fly off the same turn i came on, if i get 1 of 3 dakkajets i cant just go "Oh...hmm...ongoing reserves time!" and try again next turn. Usually if i only get 1 dakkajet and im not already up in his grill with a crapton of boyz or other things, the lone jet go boom easy.
How do you guys get your trukks blown up so easily? All they need is one turn of flat out movement to get across the whole dang board. If you go first, they all make it. Second, hide them. I'll be taking wagons in addition to my trukks so they can all cower behind them, the little gitz.
Open topped bad luck mostly. Av10 is penned by just about anything and what doesnt pen it can glance it to death if he really wants to. I never roll immobilized or weapon destroyed, its always 5+ unless im hit by an AP2 then i get a 4+.
A game or two like that out of 5 or so, i'd just say bad luck. Literally every game the first HP loss = boom? No thanks i see a bad trend.
EDIT: Going to try out some tankbustas for the lawls. Do you guys think the Tankhammer is useless, since its rokkit spams before the charge at 9-12 inches, and Tankbusta spams 8 or less?
Also, it says in the BRB "May use a grenade instead of a shooting weapon" If i swap my rokkit for a tankhammer does that mean i cant throw a grenade now?
Tankbusta bombs are krak grenades (8inch range, Str6 AP4 assault 1) with bonus armor pen, so pretty much always pen harder than rokkits.
Also, the codex says "...Except they have an armor penetration of 2D6+6" - the FAQ doesnt clarify this....is that on TOP of the regular Str6 or is it talking about +6 because krak grenades are Str6 and this is just how an old as hell codex writes it. If its Str 6 + 2D6+6 armor pen....holy hell even AV14 would go splat to that...hence why im confused lol.
Going to run them in a typical boyz in wagons list with this BW on the side:
BW w/ Ram, RPJ, 4 Rokkit Launchas, and a Kannon (Kannon shell is bigger and badder than a rokkit, might as well take it)
15 Tankbustas w/ 2 Tankhammers w/ 2 Bomb squigs
KFF Mek w/ Bosspole
Rush up like normal, then just have this wagon sit behind the tides of green unloading rokkits galore.
Im assuming throwing a grenade still uses normal BS of the model since i didnt find anything saying otherwise. And i did find something about using it in a transport - they can - so zip up to ~7 inches and let it rain!
I'm sure they just intend 2d6 pen with S6 base, but the way it's written I could see the logic behind "holy crap, I essentially have a S12 2d6 pen anti tank grenade".
I would lean towards the base Str being the +6 just for fairness. I imagine that would coop up one HELL of an argument if i tried to do the latter. Not to mention its literally Str12 even though you cant go higher than 10 because the 2d6+6 is pen rolls not adding to strength.
Tankbustas just became the new anti-landraider/monolith lol. No need to charge! Just get under 9 inches and start chucking!
EDIT: Aight found uses for the tankhammer. Its S10 period. 3 S10 attacks on the charge at normal initiative (well...better than the powerfist guys atleast) with no ap. I always thought it was another anti-vehicle/MC weapon.
Stronger than nobz PK even without the charge, just doesnt have the AP. That could cause some hurt.
Open topped bad luck mostly. Av10 is penned by just about anything and what doesnt pen it can glance it to death if he really wants to. I never roll immobilized or weapon destroyed, its always 5+ unless im hit by an AP2 then i get a 4+. A game or two like that out of 5 or so, i'd just say bad luck. Literally every game the first HP loss = boom?
It's almost always like that (1 hit = 1 Boom), but usually the truk is in good position. With an overall move of 24" on the first turn, they're almost all the time where they count.
My problem with truks : I always fail the difficult terrain test for at least one truk per game.
But if it stays alive and it delivered its content, noone shoots at it and it's a great area denial unit.
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MANz missile
I don't leave them in reserve ... because they always come in Turn 3.
Mine are a fire magnet ... opponents shoot so many shots at them to blow the up. And it's amazing how tough they are.
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Dakkajet
I'm not that proud of this one. It usually goes Boom so easily ... even with Jinx.
It's generally useless against Marines (mostly 3 out of my 4 regular opponents ... vanilla, chaos and dark angels). 9 TL-Supashoota ... I'm lucky to even kill one marine.
And with the Aegis Defense Line ... well it doesn't even have have the chance to shoot.
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Tankbustas
I tried these for a few games (I'll try them again still) but they weren't really useful. They never hit enough to cause damage.
Tankhammer = they never get to use it. I put 2 ... so they can throw a squig or a grenade instead of shooting.
The bomb: S6 + 2d6 pen (if you look at the BRB, it's only S6, Assault 1, Armourbane).
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Nob biker vs Warbiker Nob
That's a strange one ... why does the basic Nob biker costs 45 (20 + 25 for the bike) and the Warbiker only 35 (25 + 10 for Nob) ?
That's another strange math-thing of GW.
warbikers have 1 wound and str 3
nob bikers have 2 and a str 4
But the nom warbiker has 2 W and S4 ... exactly has the Nob biker.
You are probably still referring to the misprint profile of some ork codex. The warbiker is W1 S3 but still 3TL shoots. Which is the same as the Nob Bikers. So more bodies and more shoots per turn
warbikers have 1 wound and str 3
nob bikers have 2 and a str 4
But the nom warbiker has 2 W and S4 ... exactly has the Nob biker.
I don't really understand what you are trying to say, but if you are arguing that the Nob upgrade in the Warbiker unit is cheaper than a Nob Biker in a Nob Biker unit, then yes, you are right. However, that is a single model upgrade. The rest of the unit is still 1 Wound, 3 Str.
He was trying to say exactly that, and everyone else misread/misunderstood him.
Also, Tankbustas Bust Tanks. I wish they still had the TankHunter USR, but oh well.
Let's look at AV14 all-round, shall we?
15 Tankbustas, 2 with Tankhammers, and a Nob with Powerklaw- that's 12 Rokkits and 3 Bomb Squigs/Tankbusta Bomms.
You'll hit with 1/3 of the Rokkits, so 4. It's Str 8. You need a 6 to glance. Not likely to kill it all the way out at >18" then (though it is possible now!)
Closer in, you can add up to 3 Bomm Squiggs (one turn only)- they're almost certain to hit, and are also Str 8. So you're almost guaranteed a glance that turn.
At 12", they're in Charge range. At 6", they're pretty much dead, because you have the Tankhammers and the Nob.
Anything with an AV less than 14 is essentially toast.
And yeah, these aren't the best numbers, but the thing is, this is Ork numbers. We're assuming, here, 4 hits. Whereas "4 hits" to a Guardsman would be 4 out of 8, and 4 hits to a Marine would be 4 out of 6, this is 4 out of 12. There's a chance you hit with all 12. Or there's a chance you miss with all of them.
Does the guy who bought that 210 points of AV14 really want to risk that?
An upgrade character and a unit of the same are a completely different situation. Nob bikers are expensive yes, but they are also very nasty. How many people advocate dropping their cost by 10 points?
Yeah I just faced a dakkajet for the first time last week.
Harker blew it up with a single heavy bolter shot. Both of us were speachless. Still a great unit, but that AV 10 hurts.
As for the warbiker nob vs nob biker squad nob, I would guess the warbiker nob is 10pts cheaper for the same reason a regular boyz mob nob is cheaper. They have a massively reduced choice of wargear, and are the only character in that unit.
The dedicated nob units cost more because you're paying a premium to only take nobs and not have to take any "useless" boys with them.
But that's just me, who know's what crazy reason Phil Kelly had for it when he wrote the codex?
warbikers have 1 wound and str 3
nob bikers have 2 and a str 4
But the nom warbiker has 2 W and S4 ... exactly has the Nob biker.
Its cheaper because it either has less options available to it or its minions in the group it was upgraded from are considerably weaker.
The Nob in the Boyz group costs 4pts less, but all he has with him is a pklaw and bp. He does have the benefit of a mass of boyz around him though.
The Warbiker's Nob doesnt have the numbers, but has the same disadvantage too. Thats probably why he costs so much less. 4+ is nice but ive come to not rely on it.
I do feel bikers in general are a bit overpriced. An effective bikernob force costs twice that of a MANz missile with their trukk or wagon, and is only better because of the 5+ FNP and no worries of losing their speed. Should they be the same price as MANz? hell no that'd make them broken lol. Maybe cut it down to 15pts per nob and 25pts for the maddok would be enough in my books, and cut the regular bikers down by 5 as well. (I used to think "meh, 5 pts big whoop" but now i realize that crap adds up FAST).
Dont get me wrong, bikers are amazing (nobz atleast) but if i face something that counters them i.e. a couple kombi flamers in the groups i gotta get by, im in trouble because they cost so much i usually dont have the points to get something else to deal with that unit. (Hive Guard for instance are the most nasty anti-biker weapon. I stopped taking bikers against Nids because those things create a huge bubble of "No Bikers Allowed" i cant deal with with the points i got left)
Well, Hive Guard don't do that anymore, Nob Bikers are a full T5 now so no ID from those annoying guns.
I have been playing them exclusively over foot Nobz since 6th and love them. Yeah it's 410 for a decent unit of 6, but they've eaten full turns of shooting from Storm Ravens, Obliterators, dev squads, Vendettas and they just keep rolling and killing ("rollin and killin rollin and killin" is what I chant when I move them).
With turbo boost they can basically get to anything I want dead in T2.
If I paid even 5 points less per model I think my regular gaming buddies would blow a collective blood vessel.
Now their success doesn't exist in a vacuum, they're just the pointy end of a very long smashing stick. I use normal Boyz to run early defense for them, with Lootaz to take town high-threat targets, and something else similarly threatening (Burnaz in a BW have been the go-to) to make sure the full heat of the enemy doesn't come to bare on the Nobz.
What I find is that my opponents throw their hardest hitting thing at them, kill maybe 1 Nob, then give up and start spreading the fire around. That's usually the point that the whole game turns in my favor
They still wreck havoc because its high enough to wound on 2s and we get no armor or cover from it. We still get cybork/FNP but going from 4+/5+ to a 5+/5+ hurts....least with my luck.
Foot slogging nobz seem pointless over 1k point games. Theyre considerably cheaper, just as strong in melee, but lack the speed and cover save. Ive tried it a few times instead of bikers and the extra 100pts or so by trading the bikes for a wagon (forget exact points) wasnt worth it.
How do you normally run them? The few times ive ran a biker star with or without a warboss i always felt like i had nothing on the table but them to cause the enemy think about who theyre shooting at. Crapton of basic boyz arent that threatening in 6th unless my opponent geared up to face MEQs and not a hordy army like an idiot.
Most folk i play kit for anti-meq, rather than anti-horde, as that;s still the meta. Doubly so for tourney play as most armies will be some flavour of marine.
Green tide still works, but not as well. I prefer a mixed mech/horde list, with a small Nob Biker unit as a punch if the pts are high enough.
I run 10 biker Nobz with Banner and PB and Cybork. 545 for the unit. I also run 2-3 BikerBosses and Wazz with 3-4 units of BikerBoyz. What the BBoyz can't handle, the Nobz can. Also just switched over my 3 DeffKoptas from BS to Rokkits. So far they've done better, along with remembering Scout Movement, damn Manticores!
The only PK's in my list are on the Bosses and Wazz, and it's been more than enough.
Vineheart01 wrote: They still wreck havoc because its high enough to wound on 2s and we get no armor or cover from it. We still get cybork/FNP but going from 4+/5+ to a 5+/5+ hurts....least with my luck.
Foot slogging nobz seem pointless over 1k point games. Theyre considerably cheaper, just as strong in melee, but lack the speed and cover save. Ive tried it a few times instead of bikers and the extra 100pts or so by trading the bikes for a wagon (forget exact points) wasnt worth it.
How do you normally run them? The few times ive ran a biker star with or without a warboss i always felt like i had nothing on the table but them to cause the enemy think about who theyre shooting at. Crapton of basic boyz arent that threatening in 6th unless my opponent geared up to face MEQs and not a hordy army like an idiot.
5+ 5+ is pretty effective, considering if you're taking fire from a full unit of hive guard about half will hit, then you might end up only taking 5 wounds, I'd probably lose 1 guy.
I always run them with a warboss, why would you not want to have a Biker Boss in your army
Foot sloggers aren't really cheaper since they're next to useless without a BW, once you stick that in they run about the same points. This is assuming you run 6 Nobz, which is my gold standard, but after 6 I guess it gets cheaper, especially if you just want a bunch of cheapo slugga/choppa nobz (which are actually pretty good).
My Nob Biker unit looks like this:
Warboss
Bike, AS, Cybork, PK, BP
Painboy
Big Choppa
Big Choppa
Slugga/Choppa
Power Klaw waaagh banner
Power Klaw
I have considered shaving a PK off the unit, but since the rest of the Ork army list is so inexpensive and easy to play around with I haven't bothered.
6 Nob Warbikers
Painboy
2 Power Klaw Nobz
2 Big Choppa Nobz (1 with Boss Pole)
1 Waaagh Banner Nob
This unit has survived every game.
Hell, one game, on turn three, they survived an ENTIRE Ultramarines armys worth of shooting.
Were talking two full Dev squads, a razorback, Land Raider, and two Tac squads. I lost one PK nob.
I will also run them with my Biker Boss. I do this about half the time. The other half the time the Biker Boss comes in with three Deff Koptas for the outflank. But I never leave home without him. He has been my warlord every game of 6th I've played.
I can't really find anything that's overpriced in the codex. I mean, I still win most of my games with it and it's from 4th ed (sure, written for 5th, but it's really a 4th ed book).
Yes, some things are expensive, but you get what you pay for. Yes, some units are terrible, but show me the Codex that doesn't have something that nobody takes (double negative ftw).
But for every unit that costs 50+ points a model, I will point out the Warboss on Bike, with his ideal loadout, is 155 points. That's cheaper than crappy HQ choices in most dexes.
More Dakka wrote: I can't really find anything that's overpriced in the codex.
Boomguns and Killkannons run rather expensive. It's tempting to have a s:8 pie plate, even more considering the changes 6th ed brought to blast templates and vehicles, and I don't mind that "don't press dat!" rule (people don't mind loading their vehicles and troops with potentially disastrous Plasmas, after all) but the cost puts me (and most ork players around) off.
its the av 11 that puts me off, if it was 13 or even 12 I might consider them.
On a differant note I have been kind of looking back at the Blitz Bomber for my anti tank needs has anyone given them a shot?
S7 2D6 pen with only a 1d6 scatter seems realy good. Even with the mishap stuff.
Never tried or fought one, seems quite pricey for what essentially is a delivery vehicle for a couple tankbusta bombs which might just scratch a couple HPs at best. Still, the idea of zooming 36' ahead, placing yourself behind any fliers your enemy might be fielding and dropping your bombs somewhere in between seems interesting.
Maybe I'm a bit enthusiastic, though. Been playing Il2 Shturmovik a lot lately...
There's a guy in my area who loves his looted wagons. I play against him every now and then, and they really just feel like crappy russes.
I don't know, they never do much against me, but maybe they're gutting MEQ armies and I've never seen him play against others.
As for blitza bommas, they never looked too hot to me. Not enough dakka, not enough bomms, or really anything. When you're WANTING it to crash just so it can do more damage, something is seriously wrong. If you were looking for a dedicated tank hunter unit, I'd pick tankbustas over them, if I wasn't already using nob bikers or koptas for that already...
More Dakka wrote: I can't really find anything that's overpriced in the codex.
Boomguns and Killkannons run rather expensive. It's tempting to have a s:8 pie plate, even more considering the changes 6th ed brought to blast templates and vehicles, and I don't mind that "don't press dat!" rule (people don't mind loading their vehicles and troops with potentially disastrous Plasmas, after all) but the cost puts me (and most ork players around) off.
Killkannons are Str7 Ap3 though, which i wouldnt take that even if its half the price since it makes the rest of my shots fire snaps and its a god awful short range for a pi plate. Just by looking at the stats, i dont think i'd ever use it and not have a big fear of my horrid BS scattering into my own dudes. Str7 doesnt really do much other than guarantee the To Wound roll on most targets (provide you actually hit the damn thing) since everything (far as i know) that has 2 wounds is at least T4 so it wont instapaste them.
Boomguns are nasty but that orky BS....ive ran them a few times and ive come to the conclusion i refuse to take them unless i expect hordy armies. I couldnt hit the broad side of a barn with it. The other issue is i dont really see a way to use them and not screw yourself over since you usually need those 3 heavy slots for something else. Its range isnt as great as IG, but its still long enough to safely fire at most targets and not worry bout hittin your own stuff (most the time)
MrMoustaffa wrote:There's a guy in my area who loves his looted wagons. I play against him every now and then, and they really just feel like crappy russes.
I don't know, they never do much against me, but maybe they're gutting MEQ armies and I've never seen him play against others.
As for blitza bommas, they never looked too hot to me. Not enough dakka, not enough bomms, or really anything. When you're WANTING it to crash just so it can do more damage, something is seriously wrong. If you were looking for a dedicated tank hunter unit, I'd pick tankbustas over them, if I wasn't already using nob bikers or koptas for that already...
Funny thing about the blitza bomma - it got nerfed. I tried it in a game before i read the FAQ to see if anything changed and i came to the same conclusion you just said - i WANT it to crash cuz its guns suck and the bombs are meh.
Rolling the "FASTER! WAAAAGH!! Uh-o" used to crash and deal an automatic S9 AP2 hit to your target. Now it just crashes and burns via BRB rules - Str6 ap-......serious? why nerf a lousy plane to begin with? lol I dont like the Burna-bomma either. Missiles never hit, and if i fire both i cant fire my guns (count as using a weapon if i fire a missile, i only got 2 weapons) and its just Str5. Why would i want to blow so many points on such low strength thats unreliable to hit anything anyway? My opponent literally just ignored it, didnt even use his Intercept on his quad gun on it, and it didnt do anything but kill maybe 3 guardsmen when i finally ran out of missiles and shot my damn gun.
EDIT: Im gonna try that small biker list you guys posted, sounds legit. Would you guys run a wagon/trukk boy list with it or loota-cover + SAG/Dakkajets and just have the bikers and deffkoptas out there on their own?
Vineheart01 wrote: They still wreck havoc because its high enough to wound on 2s and we get no armor or cover from it. We still get cybork/FNP but going from 4+/5+ to a 5+/5+ hurts....least with my luck.
Foot slogging nobz seem pointless over 1k point games. Theyre considerably cheaper, just as strong in melee, but lack the speed and cover save. Ive tried it a few times instead of bikers and the extra 100pts or so by trading the bikes for a wagon (forget exact points) wasnt worth it.
How do you normally run them? The few times ive ran a biker star with or without a warboss i always felt like i had nothing on the table but them to cause the enemy think about who theyre shooting at. Crapton of basic boyz arent that threatening in 6th unless my opponent geared up to face MEQs and not a hordy army like an idiot.
5+ 5+ is pretty effective, considering if you're taking fire from a full unit of hive guard about half will hit, then you might end up only taking 5 wounds, I'd probably lose 1 guy.
I always run them with a warboss, why would you not want to have a Biker Boss in your army
Foot sloggers aren't really cheaper since they're next to useless without a BW, once you stick that in they run about the same points. This is assuming you run 6 Nobz, which is my gold standard, but after 6 I guess it gets cheaper, especially if you just want a bunch of cheapo slugga/choppa nobz (which are actually pretty good).
My Nob Biker unit looks like this:
Warboss
Bike, AS, Cybork, PK, BP
Painboy
Big Choppa
Big Choppa
Slugga/Choppa
Power Klaw waaagh banner
Power Klaw
I have considered shaving a PK off the unit, but since the rest of the Ork army list is so inexpensive and easy to play around with I haven't bothered.
I have to really debate with myself weather to take a MegaBoss or a BikerBoss. They both have excellent pros, and I cant always take both.
I wouldn't say a Boomwagon is overpriced, it's effective for what it does, can't remember off the top of my head but they come to 115 with an Ard Case (which used to be worth it in 5th, wouldn't take that now). When I started playing my Orks in 5th I found it really effective at killing the MEQs that my Lootaz blew out of their Rhinos. They gave great killing reach to the army. Yeah AV11 made them weak, but I was running them in a dual KFF list with a horde of Boyz running up the table, so my opponent had way bigger fish to fry than a couple 115 point vehicles that were also sitting in a 4+ cover bubble (and could get weapons repaired etc).
@Vineheart01, I would go with something fast to support the bikers, have wanted to try TLBS Kopptaz, but BW Boyz or a couple trukk boyz will work well, buggies can be great too. The back field should be Lootaz of some sort with Dakka Jets held in the wings for support, but don't neglect to take at least a couple big mobz of shoota boyz, 20+ you need that scoring.
@Kingcracker, I've never run a Megaboss but totally see the value of them. There are only 2 drawbacks I find with Mega Armor, you don't get to overrun the foe if you win in CC and you can't run, so if you get shot out of your transport early they could be SoL for the game. My other issue is that to be effective they need Nobz to give them FNP and +1 WS, and foot Nobz are so much squishier with all that S8 still running around out there.
Since 6th I have never felt obliged to run the KFF Big Mek, it's pretty dang easy to find cover for most vehicles, so I would even go as far as to try dual Warboss lists taking Bikers as one troop and MANZ as the other with a Megaboss in a BW, that would make a real 2 pronged hammer of awesome!
*Edit, there are also some sneaky tricks you can pull with the Mega Boss, since his SnP is transferred to his unit etc.
You used to be able to overrun. I'm kinda sad they took that away, while leaving Slow'n'Purposeful. Do Termies have SnP now, or does Relentless keep you from overrunning as well?
valminder wrote: Haaaa!! Grey Knights ... by turn 3 I had nothing left on the table ... between their psicannon, 2 teleporting dreadknights (the big terminator things) and ALL psychers, it was total destruction. It took them only 45 minutes to wipe me. Turn 1 they fried the lootas and goblins behind the Aegis Defense line and immobilized one BW. My 2 dakkajets were as easily destroyed, one by a megapowerful twin-linked lascannon razorback.
I tried the same list against Necrons (which were beaten earlier in no time by IG) and they did "almost" the same thing, but it took a little longer. It was almost a draw, but he won. I cannot destroy his AV13 vehicles ... and what about those damn HQ removing abilities from my orks.
I was so pissed off. I was almost willing to sell my orks after this defeat !!! But I've been beaten by the 2 best armies out there. I don't know why GW does codex that are that much powerful.
Anyway, it's my fault. I did not have a competitive list and I wanted to try stuff which failed.
The problem is that I like using weird stuff and different armies, I don't like playing the same army day after day,
How do you fight this Grey Knight army:
2 TL Lascannon Razorbacks
2 Dread Knights
20 Marines with Psicannons.
1 HQ that must be alone (I don't know his name, but he did nothing)
Everyone was a psycher.
For me, Kommandos are useless (Snikrot doesn't serve anymore).
Mobs of 30 orks are dead,
Dakkajets get shot down too easily.
I'm kind of brain-dead when thinking about my orks.
Automatically Appended Next Post: About the deathstars, I tried using this but it failed. Meganobz cannot fight against the ??? (the dark eldars with AP2 melee weapons), I cannot remember their names.
Their dark lances destroyed my 2 BW on turn 1.
Their venoms and the razorwing destroyed by 30 boyz (in 3 turns, but they did it).
Is it me or all orks are that unlucky ?
The game finished as a draw, nobody took the relic. At least my warboss saved the day. By himself he killed a talos pain engine, the DEHQ with his Invul 2+ shield, and 2 squads of DE troops. And the other star of the game was the immobilized Trukk of the meganobz (now empty) which prevented some of his troops to run toward the relic.
There is nothing you can do other then only play Orks if your opponent has Orks too then your both poo
MrMoustaffa wrote: There's a guy in my area who loves his looted wagons. I play against him every now and then, and they really just feel like crappy russes.
I don't know, they never do much against me, but maybe they're gutting MEQ armies and I've never seen him play against others.
As for blitza bommas, they never looked too hot to me. Not enough dakka, not enough bomms, or really anything. When you're WANTING it to crash just so it can do more damage, something is seriously wrong. If you were looking for a dedicated tank hunter unit, I'd pick tankbustas over them, if I wasn't already using nob bikers or koptas for that already...
The boom weapon looks exciting when compared to other ork things,
but my allied hammerhead > evrything. Such a good addition to the ork repertoire, S8 pie plates, S10 antitank pew pew.
(only no good role for the mandatory fire warriors & the commander is also meh)
DontEatRawHagis wrote: I'm glad I saw this. Awesome and keep it updated. Right now Old Zogwart is nerfed because of BS-, therefore no psychic shooting.
Old news, now we wait eagerly for the uppdates for how the ork bommers are gonna be as i just saw today there will be a new flyer book that includes stormraven for Black templar use and uppdates for the ork bomma
Yea Zog's issue has been known for awhile the recent faq just further messed him up without saying "But he can use them despite BS- because they autohit" - theres literally no point in taking him cuz he costs twice a normal warphead, cant use the nukes, and is squishy as hell so his melee attacks usually wont do anything since just about everything would challenge him and win.
I always felt that Zogwart wasn't worth taking vs a normal warphead, a lot of points for some poison attacks and an IC splatterer. I guess the issue with him is that very few IC's can go toe to toe with a Warboss.
Anyways, normal Warphead is one of my fav HQ's right now. I just put him with a big mob of Slugga/Choppa Boyz and hope to get a Waaaaagh for my Dakka Jets, or one of those sweet nukes off.
Also Ere We Go has secured Linebreaker for me in 3 out of 5 games now, you get 30 Boyz in the enemy deployment in one piece and they will be a HUGE distraction and tough to dislodge. Now I have mishapped twice in 1 game with them and lost them the second time, but that was during a landslide game so I was kinda just messing around with it.
have to agree with the comment that most ICs cant go toe-to-toe with a warboss. With the exception of Nids since MCs have AP2 attacks that practically always wound, i cant think of one that can beat a warboss. necrons can if they mindshackle me, but thats it.
Mindshackel scarabs are kinda bs. It almost always goes off and makes any character worthless. The HQ himself using it is usually meh, but who cares he makes you kill yourself.
edit:
@Vineheart01, I would go with something fast to support the bikers, have wanted to try TLBS Kopptaz, but BW Boyz or a couple trukk boyz will work well, buggies can be great too. The back field should be Lootaz of some sort with Dakka Jets held in the wings for support, but don't neglect to take at least a couple big mobz of shoota boyz, 20+ you need that scoring.
How bout this? 1500pts (going off memory might have some pts wrong)
Troops:
2x 20man Shooty boyz w/ 2 Big Shootas 130pts(260pts)
19man Shooty boyz w/ 1 Big shoota 119pts
Heavy: 3x BW w/ Rollas, 1 BS 115pts(345pts)
Comes down to 1499pts. I took off the AS on the warboss to get the WAAAGH banner. Was contemplating a single dakkajet instead of lootas, but as we all know a single of anything in orkyness does nothing.
If the game was 1750pts i would drop the lootas and take 3 dakkajets w/ extra shoota, get my atack squig back, give another BS to the BWs, and get another Bigchoppa in the nobz
EDIT2: Actually, should i drop the KFF and just use the bikes to give my BWs cover saves? They definately cover more than 25% of the model unless youre a plane, giving them a 4+ instead of a 5+ and the bikes have that anyway.
it does? i'd have to reread that but i know that vehicles is entirely how much of it is blocked, not whats blocking it. Area terrain only gives it a cover if its sunk into the ground enough or has enough trees/rocks blocking its view.
Only reason the KFF is a 5+ for them is because in 6th FAQ they specifically say its a 5+ now, otherwise the wording is the same as it was in 5th when it was a 4+
Even if it was still a 5+ i think it would be a good idea since that would let me get the AS back on my boss, get more BS on the BWs, and fit that 19squad to 20. KFF doesnt do anything once i get across the board anyway.
You'd be better off running the bikes behind the Wagons. What makes the wagons good is the AV 14. They are immune to S7 and lower and S8 can only glance them. So your only real threat is S9 & 10 and anything that has the possibility for 2D6 Armour Pen or Lance Weapons.
What this means is that if your opponent can only see Battle Wagons he has to use his dedicated AT on you and everything else in his list has been rendered usless. So the KFF becomes superior becuase he is also hidden. Not only is he hidden but all of your models even partially within 6" of the Hull of the vehicle is within gain a 5+ cover save. A lot of people complain that a 5+ isn't good enough but its better than nothing and during night fight this can go upto a 4+ or a 3+.
Battle Wagons gives your softer squisher units more time to get up the board and the more units you have to engage with on your Waaagh!!! move. The more likely you are to win the game.
Found it, i just misread the example in the BRB talking about cover. Its still the same cover normal units get, it just needs 25% or more to take effect. I thought it was 4+ regardless unless it was an ability that let it have cover in the open.
In the old dex bikes and grots did allow for this however bikes cost like 33 points I think and had nothing like what the current bikes have. But this was before you could get cover from other models. But no sadly its just a 5+. So best to stick with the KFF.
Yeah but the old bikes had Pycho Blasta Dakka allowing them to shoot their BS's when they charge (at int. 11) instead of CC weapons. Those were the days. 5pts more than they are now.
Hi, I'm going to play a 2vs2 Battle Mission tournament (5x 1h15 games on a 4' x 4' table, 550 pts/player, 1100/team of 2).
I'll play my orks (what else!) and my son his Space Marines.
RULES:
-No vehicles with AV rating, except walkers with AV11 max (so Killakan are OK)
-No "named" / unique characters
-Max 2W per fig (except swarms).
-Need 2 Troop choices, HQs are optional.
-No 2+ armor / invul saves
-No monstrous creatures
-No Flyers
Space Marines : I don't know yet, but my son will probably use
-Thunderfire cannon for sure.
-2x 5 Scouts
-Devastator or Tactical Squad to protect the cannon
Orks: I had these ideas
Choice 1
5 Deffkoptas + Big Mek on bike (PK, CY, AS, BP)
2x 10 Grotz
4 Warbikers + Nob (PK, BP)
Choice 2
5 Deffkoptas + Big Mek on bike (BP)
2x 10 Grotz
6 Warbikers + Nob (PK, BP)
I think in this situation a Kan wall army would be perfect. Have your Kans and boyz moving forwards and the Marines as fire support. Load them up with Infantry Killing weapons as most Armys will have to run Mass Infantry. If they don't deal with Kans first they will havr 27 Strength 10 AP2 close combat attacks hitting them where it hurts.
valminder wrote: Hi, I'm going to play a 2vs2 Battle Mission tournament (5x 1h15 games on a 4' x 4' table, 550 pts/player, 1100/team of 2).
I'll play my orks (what else!) and my son his Space Marines.
RULES: -No vehicles with AV rating, except walkers with AV11 max (so Killakan are OK) -No "named" / unique characters -Max 2W per fig (except swarms). -Need 2 Troop choices, HQs are optional. -No 2+ armor / invul saves -No monstrous creatures -No Flyers
That's extremely limiting....
But I'd go with a KFF mek, and 2 30 man boyz squads Or some form of Nob Bikers. That would be funny in 500 pts. If you are only going to field stuff out of your choices, I'd probably do choice 4.
valminder wrote: Hi, I'm going to play a 2vs2 Battle Mission tournament (5x 1h15 games on a 4' x 4' table, 550 pts/player, 1100/team of 2).
I'll play my orks (what else!) and my son his Space Marines.
RULES:
-No vehicles with AV rating, except walkers with AV11 max (so Killakan are OK)
-No "named" / unique characters
-Max 2W per fig (except swarms).
-Need 2 Troop choices, HQs are optional.
-No 2+ armor / invul saves
-No monstrous creatures
-No Flyers
That's extremely limiting....
But I'd go with a KFF mek, and 2 30 man boyz squads Or some form of Nob Bikers. That would be funny in 500 pts. If you are only going to field stuff out of your choices, I'd probably do choice 4.
Bring a nekkid big mek, two units of ten grotz, and the meanest mob of nob bikers you can afford. The mek and grotz cost 115 points, so you get 385 points for nob bikers, but you can't put cybork on them.
valminder wrote: Hi, I'm going to play a 2vs2 Battle Mission tournament (5x 1h15 games on a 4' x 4' table, 550 pts/player, 1100/team of 2).
I'll play my orks (what else!) and my son his Space Marines.
RULES:
-No vehicles with AV rating, except walkers with AV11 max (so Killakan are OK)
-No "named" / unique characters
-Max 2W per fig (except swarms).
-Need 2 Troop choices, HQs are optional.
-No 2+ armor / invul saves
-No monstrous creatures
-No Flyers
That's extremely limiting....
But I'd go with a KFF mek, and 2 30 man boyz squads Or some form of Nob Bikers. That would be funny in 500 pts. If you are only going to field stuff out of your choices, I'd probably do choice 4.
Wow. To say it's limiting is an understatement. Some armies would have a HARD time competing under such rules. Heck, Daemon players are even banned from entering! Really, It looks like someone's tailored a list, then came out with a set of "tournament restrictions" to keep their opponents predictable.
But well, that's not the point of the thread. Fact is, orks can hit really hard at low point levels.
Honestly, I'd pass on the nob bikers. My choice would be lootas and as many shoota boyz as the points allow. Your son's already bringing big guns and marksmanship, now you must bring the bodies... lots of them!
Though you really oughtn't be concerned with any number of Nob Bikers. Especially at these low points, without high AV (which are usually the ones that have things like Str10 pie plates) when people aren't bringing MCs or 2+ Armour, people wont' be packing the sorts of things to deal with T5 2W bikers. And Nob Bikers can hit hard.
I hesitate for a green tide, because I think that 2 squads of 30 boys will never reach anything and will be too hard and too long to move. let alone attack.
And I think I'll use KillaKans .... I think they'll be great and hard to kill. Maybe 6 of them, I could try for 9, but with 550 pts it's hard to fit 2 other troop choices in there.
I hesitate for a green tide, because I think that 2 squads of 30 boys will never reach anything and will be too hard and too long to move. let alone attack.
If they're all shoota boyz and you have a KFF, you'll be fine. That's 60 wounds in a low point game. Weight of numbers will crush whatever is fielded against you, unless you face a list tailormade to stop your horde. Just move and run until you reach that glorious shooting range.
If you're that worried about range, throw in some big shootas. Or better yet, get some big gunz: they're dirt cheap and I found they're amazing at low point games. Kannons are AP3 so they're perfect for making marine players cry. Or you could field 3 lobbas, hide em behind a wall somewhere and bombard from a paltry 48 inches away while your boyz slog forward.
3x Squads if 20x Boyz with Shootas, Big Shootas, PK & BP Nob with a Big Mek, KFF and PK running along behind some Kans will do the trick just don't block LOS from the Marine Player.
I'd love to see them Loota Boy, I'm considering throwing together a unit of Kommandos myself and I wanna see how other people give their units enough variation from the standard boy to tell them apart.
As for the death strike missile, I could see it being okay, but I think the Medusa (I think thats the name) would be better, 4 shots with D3 barrage).
As for the death strike missile, I could see it being okay, but I think the Medusa (I think thats the name) would be better, 4 shots with D3 barrage).
They cost the same, so I think I'll try them both out with my IG contingent (Command Squad with Lascannon + Vet Squad with Lascannon + Bastion with Quad Gun, for loads of anti-flyer and tank, especially with Bring it Down!). It seems very Orky to bring an intercontinental missile to the front lines and let loose!
I'm on the wall about allying in some IG for range and high STR shots for my Orks and Chaos too. Lascannons, plasma guns, Vendettas, LRBTs, and then some artillery are way too tempting to fill the Ork's lacking ranged anti tank.
I know hes kinda gimped right now because of the BS0 issue, but would you guys take Zogwort against a nidzilla player just to be a prick with the curse chance? Neither the FAQ or the codex says it doesnt target certain ICs, just that it has to be an IC in range.
I'd love to see the look on my friend's face when he finds out i just permanently turned his Flyrant/Swarmlord depending on what hes running into a Squig that even my boyz could instapaste rofl.
I mean, he wounds on 2+ and has a LOT of attacks so not like hes totally useless.
EDIT: I could see being disallowed to target the flyrant while hes swooping because of the whole "Autohits never hit fliers" but i usually bring him crashing to the ground every shooting phase he isnt locked in combat, and i can still zap him when hes in combat anyway so even thats not a safe thing for him.
The ability doesn't "Hit'' anybody though as far as I'm aware. It just automatically affects the unit (as long as he doesn't deny it) It should work just fine right?
Vineheart01 wrote: I know hes kinda gimped right now because of the BS0 issue, but would you guys take Zogwort against a nidzilla player just to be a prick with the curse chance?
Tyranids Monstrous Creatures are *not* IC. Only the Tyranid Prime and the Broodlord (I think) are legal targets for Zogwort's curse. Trygons, Tervigons, Tyrants, Fexes and the like are all immune to this curse.
Zog's curse targets any IC in range regardless of what that IC is doing, even if Zog is in combat too.
And what are you talking about? They do that anyway for the most part, its either deal with the 30 gaunts in your face or attempt to shoot over them at the MC behind them. I'd rather deal with the gaunts first because the MC only has so many attacks, 30 gaunts would rape in melee if you let them get that close.
Yeah, but letting a tyrant join a horde unit nullifies all the high STR/low rate of fire weapons that you'd normally want to use on them and not the gaunts (though I suppose lootas are good enough at chewing through both, but not all armies get autocannons as cheap as us) . I suppose a better example would be if tervigons were allowed to join their babies. It's hard enough to get through 6 wounds sometimes.
EDIT: I could see being disallowed to target the flyrant while hes swooping because of the whole "Autohits never hit fliers" but i usually bring him crashing to the ground every shooting phase he isnt locked in combat, and i can still zap him when hes in combat anyway so even thats not a safe thing for him.
Wait wait what? where does it say autohits never hit fliers?
Im fairly certain the FAQ said autohits can hit fliers, In fact autohits that dont cause damage can still make a FMC crash. Specifically tau marker lights hits (autohits) DO cause a crash test on FMC.
Q: How do maelstroms, novas and beams – or indeed any weapon
that doesn’t need to roll To Hit or hits automatically – interact with
Zooming Flyers and Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures? (p13)
A: Only Snap Shots can hit Zooming Flyers and Swooping
Flying Monstrous Creatures. Therefore, any attacks that use
blast markers, templates, create a line of/area of effect or
otherwise don’t roll to hit cannot target them. This includes
weapons such as the Necron Doom Scythe’s death ray or the
Deathstrike missile of the Imperial Guard, and psychic
powers that follow the rule for maelstroms, beams, and
novas
While its not a Maelstrom/beam/nova spell, the underline part still negates anything unless you have skyfire as well (since skyfire's intent is to ignore this rule)
EDIT: I could see being disallowed to target the flyrant while hes swooping because of the whole "Autohits never hit fliers" but i usually bring him crashing to the ground every shooting phase he isnt locked in combat, and i can still zap him when hes in combat anyway so even thats not a safe thing for him.
Wait wait what? where does it say autohits never hit fliers?
Im fairly certain the FAQ said autohits can hit fliers, In fact autohits that dont cause damage can still make a FMC crash. Specifically tau marker lights hits (autohits) DO cause a crash test on FMC.
I'm pretty sure marker lights roll to hit.
virx67 wrote:I just got a box of nobz, and some bikes. Before I make them, would this be a good unit to run:
5x Nobz, all bikes and Cybork Bodies, 1 w/ BP, 2x w/ PK's, 1 w/ PK + Waagh Banner, Painboy
And the bikerboss, of course:
Boss, Attack Squig, Bosspole, PK, Bike, Cybork, Big Shoota
virx67 wrote: I just got a box of nobz, and some bikes. Before I make them, would this be a good unit to run:
5x Nobz, all bikes and Cybork Bodies, 1 w/ BP, 2x w/ PK's, 1 w/ PK + Waagh Banner, Painboy
And the bikerboss, of course:
Boss, Attack Squig, Bosspole, PK, Bike, Cybork, Big Shoota
That's a lot of PK's. Remember, one or two tend to die before they make it into combat. May as well keep those bullet soaks cheap, so they don't hurt as much. Just give em their cybork and maybe a big choppa and you're golden.
Also, no point in buying a fancy shoota for the boss or the nobs, they're going to want to shoot their TL dakkagun on the bikes all the time.
It's good to field a couple with cheap load out and have them soak up enemy fire from the front. For a squad of 5, 2 Power Klaws is sufficient. Alternatively, you could also have the Warboss in the front and use LOS to distribute wounds. Don't do this if your Warboss happens to be the Warlord.
TL-dakkaguns are amazing, especially against Flying Monstrous Creatures. My Nobz Bikers have grounded quite a few and finish their target in assault.
wait you took bikers against nids?
i dont see why you would ever do that, at the range dakkaguns are the nids can fire back with way nastier guns and in melee your bikers wont win against most targets without losing their own lives in the process.
I actually dont see any other tactic than loota-parking lot to deal with nids. Their melee crushes ours (even meganobz) and they have no counter to 48inch dakka that blocks the sun.
Been tryin to find another tactic because i know this parking lot idea loses instantly to any IG parking lots. I dislike 1-trick pony armies.
The only problems my Nobz Bikers have against nids is double enfeeble + getting instagib by Flyrant armed with 2x TL-Devourers. If that doesn't happen, my Nobz Bikers generally don't have problems.
Getting stuck in combat against Termagants isn't an issue when there's a few blobs of Boyz backing the Nobz Bikers. I also usually have Tau ally. Railguns + Nobz Bikers is an evil list composition!
MrMoustaffa wrote: That 'rule clarification' put out by GW makes no sense whatsoever. Old Zog can roll on the Wierdboy table, he's a Warphead that may re-roll the dice to see which psychic power he uses, but he can't re roll if the result is Frazzle or Zzap??? WTF??? Not to mention that the wording of the question pretty much implies that he now cannot officially use Frazzle or Zzap regardless of the autohit ability! Geez... Thanks GW for making our beloved Ork even more nerfed than ever before. Seriously, why the hell is Old Zog called "the greatest wierdboy ever" if he can't even do 33% of the standard Wierdboy abilities!?!?!?
Write to GW and let's fill their inbox with our complaints. It's stupid for a "autohit" power to be unusable with a BS of 0.
Gamefaqs@gwplc.com
Yeah, I did that yesterday and got the standard "Thanks for your feedback, we'll consider it for the next FAQ release" response from them.
Continue to send them answers.
If that doesn't work, call customer service 1-800-394-4263 or email them : CustServ@gwplc.com
If we all do that, we have the power to make them change some rules.
Not for a while, i'd say. The ork codex has aged better than any other, and their are plenty of waaay out dated codexes waiting in line. If i had to guess, i'd say the order will be Tau-black templars-Eldar-codex marines-nids-something imperial-....orks. And i'm fine with that. All the codex needs is a few rules edits, some point cost alterations, more toyz, move a few things to different force org slots and maybe a couple new units. Also, just some unit updates to make things better. No need of a total overhaul, unless one of the codexes in between entirely curb stomps us. Which is certainly possible.
aight gitz! dakkajets just got better and worth taking fighta ace now.... but now its called flyerboss, bs 3 towards everything for the same cost. soo yay bs 3 against flyers instead of 2.
dat is with the new flyer book update from death from the skies. other than that all the chnges has previously been said in the sixth eddition faq. like supersonic etc.
MrMoustaffa wrote: That 'rule clarification' put out by GW makes no sense whatsoever. Old Zog can roll on the Wierdboy table, he's a Warphead that may re-roll the dice to see which psychic power he uses, but he can't re roll if the result is Frazzle or Zzap??? WTF??? Not to mention that the wording of the question pretty much implies that he now cannot officially use Frazzle or Zzap regardless of the autohit ability! Geez... Thanks GW for making our beloved Ork even more nerfed than ever before. Seriously, why the hell is Old Zog called "the greatest wierdboy ever" if he can't even do 33% of the standard Wierdboy abilities!?!?!?
Write to GW and let's fill their inbox with our complaints. It's stupid for a "autohit" power to be unusable with a BS of 0.
Gamefaqs@gwplc.com
Yeah, I did that yesterday and got the standard "Thanks for your feedback, we'll consider it for the next FAQ release" response from them.
Continue to send them answers.
If that doesn't work, call customer service 1-800-394-4263 or email them : CustServ@gwplc.com
If we all do that, we have the power to make them change some rules.
What's really sad is that I'm talking directly to two guys at GW and neither one of them are saying anything specific about Old Zog. :( If I manage to pry anything out of them, I'll let you know.
loota boy wrote: Not for a while, i'd say. The ork codex has aged better than any other, and their are plenty of waaay out dated codexes waiting in line. If i had to guess, i'd say the order will be Tau-black templars-Eldar-codex marines-nids-something imperial-....orks. And i'm fine with that. All the codex needs is a few rules edits, some point cost alterations, more toyz, move a few things to different force org slots and maybe a couple new units. Also, just some unit updates to make things better. No need of a total overhaul, unless one of the codexes in between entirely curb stomps us. Which is certainly possible.
I'd be happy with a crystal clear, no room for debate, cost for a pain boy
MrMoustaffa wrote: That 'rule clarification' put out by GW makes no sense whatsoever. Old Zog can roll on the Wierdboy table, he's a Warphead that may re-roll the dice to see which psychic power he uses, but he can't re roll if the result is Frazzle or Zzap??? WTF??? Not to mention that the wording of the question pretty much implies that he now cannot officially use Frazzle or Zzap regardless of the autohit ability! Geez... Thanks GW for making our beloved Ork even more nerfed than ever before. Seriously, why the hell is Old Zog called "the greatest wierdboy ever" if he can't even do 33% of the standard Wierdboy abilities!?!?!?
Write to GW and let's fill their inbox with our complaints. It's stupid for a "autohit" power to be unusable with a BS of 0.
Gamefaqs@gwplc.com
Yeah, I did that yesterday and got the standard "Thanks for your feedback, we'll consider it for the next FAQ release" response from them.
Continue to send them answers.
If that doesn't work, call customer service 1-800-394-4263 or email them : CustServ@gwplc.com
If we all do that, we have the power to make them change some rules.
What's really sad is that I'm talking directly to two guys at GW and neither one of them are saying anything specific about Old Zog. :( If I manage to pry anything out of them, I'll let you know.
Did I really say that post that I'm quoted in at the center?
Was I drunk or something?
Also, are there any real changes to the ork flyers in the Death skies book or whatever it's called? I want to know if Dakkajets are still decent or if the others got better.
Also, are there any real changes to the ork flyers in the Death skies book or whatever it's called? I want to know if Dakkajets are still decent or if the others got better.
The only thing that changed was that Fighta Ace was renamed (as mentioned above) and now affects flyers as well as skimmers.
loota boy wrote: Not for a while, i'd say. The ork codex has aged better than any other, and their are plenty of waaay out dated codexes waiting in line. If i had to guess, i'd say the order will be Tau-black templars-Eldar-codex marines-nids-something imperial-....orks. And i'm fine with that. All the codex needs is a few rules edits, some point cost alterations, more toyz, move a few things to different force org slots and maybe a couple new units. Also, just some unit updates to make things better. No need of a total overhaul, unless one of the codexes in between entirely curb stomps us. Which is certainly possible.
I'd be happy with a crystal clear, no room for debate, cost for a pain boy
Nob costs 20 points, plus 30 for painboy, total of 50. Need proof? Look at the army example for the goffs and check out the nob unit with the painboy. Subtract the various pks and other upgrades from the costs until you are down to bare nobs plus pain boy. Subtract twenty points per Nob and you will end up with fifty points remaining. Clearly shows that GW ment the +30 points in addition to the 20 poin nob base.
loota boy wrote: Not for a while, i'd say. The ork codex has aged better than any other, and their are plenty of waaay out dated codexes waiting in line. If i had to guess, i'd say the order will be Tau-black templars-Eldar-codex marines-nids-something imperial-....orks. And i'm fine with that. All the codex needs is a few rules edits, some point cost alterations, more toyz, move a few things to different force org slots and maybe a couple new units. Also, just some unit updates to make things better. No need of a total overhaul, unless one of the codexes in between entirely curb stomps us. Which is certainly possible.
I'd be happy with a crystal clear, no room for debate, cost for a pain boy
Yeah, a decent FAQ to compensate for some of the 6th Ed nerfs, even if it had to also adjust a few point values and stats (which i realise is beyond the scope of normal FAQs) would extend the current codex's life considerably. But GW would probably rather make us wait a while, think up some new models, then rejig the whole codex balance to encourage us to buy all new models
loota boy wrote: Not for a while, i'd say. The ork codex has aged better than any other, and their are plenty of waaay out dated codexes waiting in line. If i had to guess, i'd say the order will be Tau-black templars-Eldar-codex marines-nids-something imperial-....orks. And i'm fine with that. All the codex needs is a few rules edits, some point cost alterations, more toyz, move a few things to different force org slots and maybe a couple new units. Also, just some unit updates to make things better. No need of a total overhaul, unless one of the codexes in between entirely curb stomps us. Which is certainly possible.
I'd be happy with a crystal clear, no room for debate, cost for a pain boy
Nob costs 20 points, plus 30 for painboy, total of 50. Need proof? Look at the army example for the goffs and check out the nob unit with the painboy. Subtract the various pks and other upgrades from the costs until you are down to bare nobs plus pain boy. Subtract twenty points per Nob and you will end up with fifty points remaining. Clearly shows that GW ment the +30 points in addition to the 20 poin nob base.
Not disputing that painboy is 50, it's obvious they are RAI, but I brought up this example army as an argument for it being possible that it's 30. I don't have me codex on me right now but I'm pretty sure there's a mistake in the picture. If you match up picture with army list the painboy comes out at 30 (too many nobs in picture basically ).
There are discussions resolving this issue (as much as YMDC threads resolve anything) from about the time I joined, and in my "threads posted" (in fact that dispute was the reason I joined )
Not so much of an issue now that foot nobs have been nerfed, still viable on bikes though.
50pts is kinda steep for a painboy, we just deal with it because hes too damn useful. Atleast on a bike he can still dakka well since the gun you use is the BIKE not him. I dont even pay attention to his poison rule because hes always challenged out anyway (not a damn thing he can beat 1v1)
All that GW really needs to do to make a ton of money off Ork players is to make either a Meganob/Cybork Nob konversion kit, or make highly detailed plastic Meganobs in the vein of their current batch of Terminators.
Orks are probably the worst race to try and milk its players for money from. If you make some badass looking, yea we'll buy it - make it cost ~100 dollars and we need 2-3 to be effective? The feth no! Scratchbuild ftw!
Only reason i even have the actual dakkajet models instead of A-10 conversions is because i got them dirt cheap (like half off) from ebay anyway.
I think they'd probably really be able to get sum Teef outta us is just release dirt-cheap packs of Ork boyz and Nobz- $10 gets you 20 Boyz with smooth plastic bodies and legs, with highly detailed heads, feet and hands. Let us build our own armour and clothes on them!
I'm probably not going to buy a Dakkajet either- just gonna make my own Orky Messerschmitt Hornet.
If you guys are really hard up for meganobs check out kromlech's mega armored orcs. Theyre pretty awesome looking and are roughly the same price as GW's ones.
MrMoustaffa wrote: If you guys are really hard up for meganobs check out kromlech's mega armored orcs. Theyre pretty awesome looking and are roughly the same price as GW's ones.
Yeah, I was looking into those guys earlier this week. As soon as I get my next pay I'm off to buying and building some manz! The Kromlech arms left me wanting though so there will be some good ol' fashion scratchbuilding also.
phatonic wrote: aight gitz! dakkajets just got better and worth taking fighta ace now.... but now its called flyerboss, bs 3 towards everything for the same cost. soo yay bs 3 against flyers instead of 2.
dat is with the new flyer book update from death from the skies. other than that all the chnges has previously been said in the sixth eddition faq. like supersonic etc.
Fighta ace already gave bs 3 against flyers (iVersion).
The just got worse because flyerboss isn't a fluffy term (deff skwadron didn't use the term).
Vineheart01 wrote: Orks are probably the worst race to try and milk its players for money from. If you make some badass looking, yea we'll buy it - make it cost ~100 dollars and we need 2-3 to be effective? The feth no! Scratchbuild ftw!
Only reason i even have the actual dakkajet models instead of A-10 conversions is because i got them dirt cheap (like half off) from ebay anyway.
To be honest dakkajet kit is pretty fairly priced. Trying to find a plane kit which is similiar size and cost to dakkajet is pretty because plane kits cost alot. I have 1 1/35 which is smaller than the dakkajet while costing 30€ (dakkajet is 36€). Considering you get loads of extra bitz which many are difficult to make yourself and entire kit can be easily magnitized makes the kit look really competitive price wise.
I will admit that the ork kits tend to be the most fairly priced kits in the GW range from what I've seen. We always get the most bitz and a single box usually gives you enough bitz to make several units as long as you can find cheap bodies to use the arms and such.
MrMoustaffa wrote: I will admit that the ork kits tend to be the most fairly priced kits in the GW range from what I've seen. We always get the most bitz and a single box usually gives you enough bitz to make several units as long as you can find cheap bodies to use the arms and such.
Or do what im doing and making mechano-legged orks with the bazillion extra bodies/heads/arms i got lol.
EDIT: Or atleast about to, right now im working on a Hellbrute conversion (friend gave it to me and said "Do something orky i know you can figure something out" lol....challenge accepted)
MrMoustaffa wrote: I will admit that the ork kits tend to be the most fairly priced kits in the GW range from what I've seen. We always get the most bitz and a single box usually gives you enough bitz to make several units as long as you can find cheap bodies to use the arms and such.
Or do what im doing and making mechano-legged orks with the bazillion extra bodies/heads/arms i got lol.
EDIT: Or atleast about to, right now im working on a Hellbrute conversion (friend gave it to me and said "Do something orky i know you can figure something out" lol....challenge accepted)
Hellbrutes? Nah, its nearly twice the size of ghaz it kinda has to be a deffdredd
Thats what i wanted to do originally because then i would use him often, but hes just too damn big...the medium base almost fits between his legs lol
I could almost imagine that being a boss who survived in the warp, similar to Tuska the Daemon Slaya.
On another note: I'm going to try swapping out my Nobz/Meganobz in Battlewagon for a mob of 20 Slugga Boyz due to the volume of attacks and a bit of 5th ed nostalgia (they were all I ran).
Vineheart01 wrote: Hellbrutes? Nah, its nearly twice the size of ghaz it kinda has to be a deffdredd
Thats what i wanted to do originally because then i would use him often, but hes just too damn big...the medium base almost fits between his legs lol
This Deffbrute as im calling it is bigger than a swarmlord lol....this is what we should get for a MC - big, massive mutated ork with a hugeass fist and some kind of gun.
I mean, the way im painting him i even took away a lot of his armor lol. The shoulder pads on his power fist arm i painted over before i even realized it....they look like massive biceps now rofl
I wanted to check in and see how the Greenskinz are doing since 6th. I played for about a month, but didn't like how 6th felt Gunline heavy, plus one of the FAQ's nerfed nob bikers, and some of the other Ork advantages.
The thread seems a little dead so I hope that doesn't mean that Orks is by and large very weak now.
Well, after 95 pages things have been discussed or covered. Most anything else like 'how to deal with this army' is likely a new thread/topic. I've been playing orks in a campaign lately and it's been fun playing at lower point levels than the meta normal. I how been playing with normal deff koptas though, not the tl rokkit ones and have had some success with them. Usually scouting them to redirect enemy fire.
I've actually just started playing my Orks last thursday, right now just as allies for my IG, but later on I will definately play them on their own. I have learned that boarding planks on trukks can come in handy. Being able to move 13" (RPJ) and "assault" with a Warboss or PK Nob hurts like crazy on vehicles.
virx67 wrote: What do people think of putting lots of lootas on a Skyshield?
I did a league like that, most people just ended up ignoring the lootas and going after the easier targets.
Also make the argument that the shield grants a cover save as well. with the walls up it will block 25%+ of the lootas. The cover saves come in handy especially with night fighting. Ask for a 3+ cover from the wall, they'll usually counter with 5+, settle on 4+
Also make the argument that the shield grants a cover save as well. with the walls up it will block 25%+ of the lootas. The cover saves come in handy especially with night fighting. Ask for a 3+ cover from the wall, they'll usually counter with 5+, settle on 4+
I thought it always granted a 3+ if the shields were up, isn't that in the brb?
Also make the argument that the shield grants a cover save as well. with the walls up it will block 25%+ of the lootas. The cover saves come in handy especially with night fighting. Ask for a 3+ cover from the wall, they'll usually counter with 5+, settle on 4+
I thought it always granted a 3+ if the shields were up, isn't that in the brb?
pretty much, but the guys who run the league around here don't like it. They actually claim nothing counts as a fortification to grant the 3+ saves.
no, its a 4+ invul if walls are up.
I dont know how theres so many grey areas with it. seems pretty cut and dry to me.
Unfurled: Deepstriking units do not scatter and jetbikes/pack units do not take dangerous terrain tests.
This rule does not specify that only YOUR models take this benefit, since buildings are technically capturable by the opponent.
Furled: Grants all units on top of the Skyshield a 4+ invul.
These are separate rules, so the Deepstriking/no dangerous test doesnt happen if the invul is in effect.
Again, no friend or foe status is specified, both teams get the invul.
Nothing says attacks from within negate the invul, technically even CC the invul is in effect.
And you can deploy up there, you just wont get down. If its in your deployment and the model can sit up there its legal....but it aint moving otherwise lol
Personally i think the Skyshield is a complete WAAC move as its so crazy strong for 75pts and makes tank-line armies impossible. I will never take it, and unless i somehow get in a tourny that didnt ban it i wouldnt ever play anyone that took it either. 75 pts is way too cheap for what it does. Slap a few Russes up there and watch your enemy squirm as he cant fight back.
Vineheart01 wrote: no, its a 4+ invul if walls are up.
I dont know how theres so many grey areas with it. seems pretty cut and dry to me.
With the walls up though, they also obscure 25% of the model to grant a cover save. which is also really cut and dry.
fortification 3+ cover
it grants a 4++
I scratch built my skyshield landing pad, I originally planed the sides to be able to fold up and down but ended up making them static up, It does however have a nice ramp that goes up and down providing the model with a access point, and yes a waggon can fit up it That said I only play casual and everyone I have actually used it with is good with
Ramp Down = Unfurled rules + access point (all units)
Ramp Up = Furled rules + no access for non skimmer, Jump, etc.
that being said
I would not think it would be too much of a stretch to agree one side of your GW skyshield has a ramp of some sort to provide an access point. as long as you and your opponent agrees which side it is before the game.
4+ Invul. Not sure about the cover, but what people are saying makes sense. Also, I believe that the invuln save is only vs shooting attacks, and excludes CC. I suppose it is a bit cheesy, but if you are fighting Necron Airforces, the previous incarnation of Screamer/Flamer spam, and other stupid lists, I think it's fair game. Or instead of lootas, possibly throwing on 9 Kannons could be interesting.
virx67 wrote: 4+ Invul. Not sure about the cover, but what people are saying makes sense. Also, I believe that the invuln save is only vs shooting attacks, and excludes CC. I suppose it is a bit cheesy, but if you are fighting Necron Airforces, the previous incarnation of Screamer/Flamer spam, and other stupid lists, I think it's fair game. Or instead of lootas, possibly throwing on 9 Kannons could be interesting.
yes its only against "enemy shooting attacks" which makes wagons fun should they explode. is that friendly fire? enemy fire? neither? but the invuln will work even if the enemy is on the skyshield when they shoot.
This is such a great idea. Why not a full loota wagon AND kannons? Haha. Does it have an armor value? This isn't THAT ridiculous if all they have to do is blow up the landing pad....
Awesomesauce wrote: This is such a great idea. Why not a full loota wagon AND kannons? Haha. Does it have an armor value? This isn't THAT ridiculous if all they have to do is blow up the landing pad....
You can`t blow up the landing pad though, you can`t even shoot at it
Focus Fire only really negates cover saves when they're given from terrain- that is, if a certain % of the squad is 'in cover'/can't be seen, you get a cover save. However, the KFF gives the WHOLE SQUAD a Cover save, regardless of how many are in the 'bubble'. That's never changed.
If 1 boy of 30 is within 6" of the KFF, the entire squad gets a 5+ cover save, even if there's nothing else on the board.
the only "nerf" that I ever really saw from KFF (as I don't use buggies or kans so unsure about % based and vehicle squadrons, not sure if those rules changed)....
Is that if you have a squad of boys who only have 1 boy in range of KFF... with the new wound allocation rules about whoever is closest etc... you opponent could flank that unit with shooting from a small squad (to the 1 model withing KFF range as the closest due to pre measuring)... say a landspeeder with heavy bolter, killing that lone model that allowed that mob to be in range of KFF... then unloading on the rest of the squad (that is now out of KFF range) with rapid fire bolters, and the remainder of their arsenal.
How does everyone feel about 'eavy armor on nob bikers? I know that they get the cover save, but im nervous about getting wounds in assualt. No armor saves just kinda scares me. Might just be my mind set since im use to running terms with my GK.
The day they "fix" the wording on KFF to only affect model by model is the day i'll shelf my converted KFF model for good. 6inch is way too damn short to go model by model, so i push the word UNIT quite heavily when using one.
Also, side note with the same issue, the #3 dice roll weirdboy spell Zzap says it autohits the unit not the model, and it just says Melta, not Melta 1 or whatever on the weapon type. Nothing in the FAQ changes this, except that it further makes me think its right because it says "they follow their own rules as specified in the codex"
Have i been using that spell wrong and causing only a single wound to a group of 5 dudes? Sounds a bit broken to cause Str10 Ap1 hits to an ENTIRE unit but thats the way the wording looks to me lol
yea see what i mean? i just noticed that...if it said "Melta 1" then ok yea its definitely 1 single shot, but it just says "Melta"
Thats like... i roll a 3 ok that unit is dead I WIN
Cant possibly be intended.... but RAW it works...
Dont think i'll ever pull that rule over someone unless theyre being a douchy WAAC, thats kinda...broken lol
It's pretty clear that RAI is one model hit, otherwise frazzle would be entirely pointless. But, you could definitely argue RAW that it just splatters the whole unit. I wouldn't do it personally, but you could definitely make the case.
Frazzle wouldnt be useless because its still solid luck to get the spell. I went an entire game only getting either Frazzle or Zzap once even with Warphead rerolls.
Your right, RAI it is one shot - its the most balanced and it sounds like a single beam is being fired when you read the description. However im totally keeping this in my pocket for when i face TFG or a WAAClol. Not doing this to my buddies though i would be outcasted for using such an obviously broken rule lol.
EDIT: And no the only mentions in the FAQ for Zzap are 1) Is it a shooting psychic spell? 2) What happens if used while embarked in a transport? 3-5) Big Gunz Zzap (since its the same word) stuff.
If you read it as written then I would say it hits the whole unit since any other melta weapon, for example a meltagun, is assault 1, Melta, or Heavy 1, Melta. Whereas Zzap is simply Melta.
Even if it hits a whole unit that does not logically mean every model in that unit is hit. Even if just one guy is hit the unit has still been hit, right?
If they intended for every model to be hit I would assume they would explicitly say so. Or, if that fails, they would FAQ it.
Yea i know RAI its only 1 shot, unless it specifically said something like "Causes a wound to every model" i would never play it that way because thats just stupid broken.
When up against, and sick of, the rotten WAAC player and you need more justification of why the attack hits the whole unit, show them the picture of the wierdboy art that is zapping an entire squad of space marines at once.
At this point I feel we should really have an update tactica for our Ork units. Maybe a ranking of our units with overall effectiveness, priority targets, and roles.
(Mainly cause I'm lazy and don't want to read through 97 pages).
oh yea its a lot to read though i only did because i can sit at work while i read it lol. Thats why my flag changes between korea and usa all the time.
Ranking of our units overall effectiveness is kinda straightforward though. Boyz are awesome, bikernobs are fethin sick, MANs are scary, Lootas are crazy as hell, trukk/bw spam is iffy (i have horrid luck with pen rolls), and flash gitz are beyond worthless. I actually went against a necron player allying in some CSM noise marines. 10 models, 36/48inch range ignore cover crazy damage and ap. The cost? He spent ~350. Flash Gitz? Fully loaded so they actually do something, ~450 w/o Baddrukk. On top of that, lower strength and severely less range not to mention the BS difference. 2wounds mean nothing these days, i would gladly reduce them to 1 wound if their costs were cut in half or 1/3 cheaper. And take a dedicated transport.
Below is based on my experience. I have tried a lot of styles out and the one that works best for me is a hybrid gunline/biker list. YMMV.
Amazing:
Warboss on Bike - has been working like a champ. Only thing I worry about is S10, or instant kill stuff. Otherwise he's been amazing in most of my games
Nob Bikerz - I like to run 2 PK (rest have Big Choppas), a Painboy, and everybody has a Skorcha. Fast versatile, harassment unit. Skorchas for counter charge defense.
Big Gunz - have been the bane in my opponents side. 9 artillery models w / minimal Crew is cheap enough to almost always make their points back. They also work well on the both sides of my Lootas to give some buffer from outlflanking units.
Lootas - there is honestly nothing I could say here that hasn't been said a thousand times in this thread. They were amazing in 5th, and are even better now. I always run them in groups of 15.
Good::
Big Mek w/ KFF:
Most of the games I've played have had so much Terrain that I really didn't need the KFF. He's still good, but personally I've need the offense more then defense so I've been running 2 warbosses.
Shoota /Rokkit Boyz - have been my main goto unit. I unusually run 2-3 units of 30 w/ 3 rokkits & a PK Nob. These guys have been my front line protecting my Gunline.
Not so much: MegaNobz - I'm one of the few players that think they are actually not as good as they were in 5th. Part of that is because Ghazzy isn't as good anymore. They are so slow that when I get the MegaNobz out of their transport, they are pretty much done for the game. For the same points as MegaNobz/Battlewagon I can have another unit of Biker Nobz.
Kills Kanz - I loved these guyz in 5th, but now they are just too fragile. I played against a friend who really wanted to play them ( he also plays Orks). After one round of loota shooting, my friend decided that he would not field them again.
why rokkits in the boyz squads? They usually miss because of BS2 and majority of the time youre shooting it at something a regular shoota still plasters. Thats why i never take the rokkit in boyz squads, i feel like im wasting either 54 shoota shots or 3 rokkits because they dont like shootin the same things.
And i'd say Ghaz isnt bad, hes just highly situational. If i know my opponent is going to bring something that can get to me FAST and will normally ID a warboss i'll take Ghaz and send him in his face. So far he has yet to fail me in taking out 300+ points worth of MC that jump into my lines. Plop him in with 30 boyz if you want and now you got 6 rerolls for that 5+ invul once your waaaagh! is used up.
Basically hes my MC killer. Lootas always decide to go "We fail at da shootin'!" whenever i aim at MC so im getting sick of trying to rely on them lol. Ghaz plasters them every time.
I'd agree on killa kanz, them along with deffdredds are kinda pointless right now. In fact the only walkers that can do something are ones that can be deepstriked either normally or droppod...or are just a mobile gun platform and doesnt need to get close at all. Killa kans have better BS but the guns they got lack the range, so bleh on that.
I like Rokkits, because majority whatever's in range of my Boy Unit is either a marine unit, or a Tank.
I like the versatility I have with having Rokkits in the unit. I usually hold the Boy unit shooting until last, and If I've haven't popped at tank, or killed a unit with all my other shooting, then boy unit gets it's round of shooting. If it's a Marine Unit I have just under a 1/3 chance of killing one (just under a 1/6 chance for overwatch). If I'm firing at a vehicle, it's a hail mary chance shot while I advance.
Last weekend, I've played a couple of big games against IG (3500 pts) and DKoK (1500 pts).
The first round, I won thanks to: 1/ Wazzdakka + 6 Nob Bikerz = killed 1 Chimera, 1 whole unit of vets, 1 unit of 5x Ogryns + Lord Comissar, 1 LR Vanquisher. But they are most awesome because of their durability. They soak up enemy fire like crazy. (3+ or 4+ & FNP 5+) 2/ Lootas (25 of them, split up into 4 squads) = killed 1 Hydra, 1 Chimera + a whole unit of vets, 2 Sentinels, and 3-4 other units. Praise the 48" Deff Gunz against T3 army. 3/ KFF Big Mek / BW
The second round, I won thanks to my Warboss Biker + outflanking Deffkoptaz. Killed a whole squad of Death Riders with Shoota-Skorcha + TL Big Shootas. Then killed one unit each.
The most awesome Ork units, so far: 1/ Warboss on Bike. I'd love to have a second one to replace my KFF Big Mek. 2/ Nob Bikers. Durability, soak up enemy fire real good. Same thing, maybe a second squad would be great, but very costy (410pts for 6 models). 3/ Lootas. Nuff said. 4/ Deffkoptaz. Good stuff, TL rokkits are good. Allow your Warboss to outflank units, use skorcha when he gets there (or to counter-attack), then LOS! + Hit and Run. 5/ Squiggoths (Forgeworld rules). 50 points each, better than BW. Good home for Lootas (or Burnas). Can move 7" to 12" if they run and don't affect shooters in it.
As for Squiggoths, too bad you can't play them by units of 1-3. Playing 9 Squiggoths for only 450 points would have been perfect to block LoS and wreak havoc in close combat.
In my opinion they are decent in a non-competitive environment.
You should try to run them very spread out to avoid any kind of AP4 templates, as these types of weapons will murder them without saves.
I would probably just field a unit of 5 flash gits and give them an open topped transport of personal taste.
I would give them the +1 shot and +1 str upgrades, making them more effective against light vehicles, but still keeping them somehow cheap at 175 points for 5. This way they are a decent anti heavy infantry unit if you keep them at range, and they can also take out light vehicles at range and weak units in assault.
Personally I'm probably going to wait untill Orks get a new codex so I can get proper models and hopefully slightly better rules. They will most likely be able to take a trukk for themselves, and potentially even be moved from heavy support.
They're not bad per se. They're definitely unusual, though. Best way I've used them is as a sort of midfield firebase/distraction. With the change to Gitfindas, you can plonk them in the middle of area terrain or cover and not have to worry about the enemy getting any benefit from it- and since they're so chaotic against infantry (sometimes melting Terminators, sometimes unable to tickle a Guardsman AP-wise) they can be a way to help control enemy positioning and movement. And they're still Nobs in a melee, which is something to consider if the enemy decided "Oho, weak ol' Flash Gitz- I'll just swamp 'em!".
Anyone notice a new ork faq dropped, even affecting weirdboy powers and zog? Yet they still didnt say he can or cannot use frazzle or zzap.....seriously GW just say which way it is so we stop thinking you missed something.
The intention with Zogwart is pretty clear, GW does not want him using Frazzel or Zaap, he can re-roll but if he gets them again he is stuck using them.
Has anyone tried out Deffkoptaz lately? I am thinking of running 5 in 2 units of 2 and a unit of 1 with Big Shootaz just to harass backfield units like Long Fangs, units on the Quad gun etc, all 5 only comes to 175 so pretty cheap and they got a lot of buffs in this edition with the new Jetbike rules. Thoughts?
More Dakka wrote: The intention with Zogwart is pretty clear, GW does not want him using Frazzel or Zaap, he can re-roll but if he gets them again he is stuck using them.
Has anyone tried out Deffkoptaz lately? I am thinking of running 5 in 2 units of 2 and a unit of 1 with Big Shootaz just to harass backfield units like Long Fangs, units on the Quad gun etc, all 5 only comes to 175 so pretty cheap and they got a lot of buffs in this edition with the new Jetbike rules. Thoughts?
Yes, I decided lat week that for this week I'm dropping the 30 Sluggas for 5 DeffKoptas in a single unit and 2 late game mobs of 10 grots held in reserve. My Shootas and NobBikerz can take the opponents objectives.
Was also thinking DK's would be good for line breaker.
I'm going to start using Deffkoptas again, I think. Pricy but they give anti-tank that I sorely lack, and also they seem tough enough to distract my opponent from the units that actually matter (i.e. Boyz).
Oi
quick question, does model attacking from boarding plank, receive a bonus from furious charge? I would say yes, but I'm noob...
And if answer is yes, doesn't it make Ram+Plank better combo than Deff Rolla?
Yes, because the model is supposed to make those attacks as if charging, that includes any rules that activate when you are charging.
Which would make a nob/big mek have four attacks at S9 AP2, hitting on 3+, which would be an average of 2.66 hits at S9, while a deff rolla would cause an average of 3.5 S10 hits, usually enough to wreck any AV12 or less vehicle.
In addition, the boarding plank stops working as soon as the unit disembarks, which should be your primary objective for anything inside a battlewagon. You don't want to keep a PK-wielder inside a battlewagon just to punch other vehicles, that would make the plank more expensive than the deff rolla (plank+PK+ork).
And last, the deff rolla can also steamroll anything, while the plank only works against vehicles. Most units don't like any amount of S10 hits.
But attack from boardin plank would be against rear armour, which is mostly AV10, on the other hand Deff rolla woud be, mostly, hitting front armour. And since there is more Predators and anihilation barques than Razorback...
And if I understand it correctly, there is no jink/cover saves from power klaw.
Mutated: isn't Death or Glory with melta or Chainfist deadly for BattleWagon with Deffrolla?
ninjaska wrote: But attack from boardin plank would be against rear armour, which is mostly AV10, on the other hand Deff rolla woud be, mostly, hitting front armour. And since there is more Predators and anihilation barques than Razorback... And if I understand it correctly, there is no jink/cover saves from power klaw.
Mutated: isn't Death or Glory with melta or Chainfist deadly for BattleWagon with Deffrolla?
DoG w/ chainfist is a skurry one.
hitting av10/11 with a S9-10 PK is preferable IMO to a deffrolla vs. higher front or side armor where you may encounter a jink as well to avoid taking any hits at all.
its just different uses for different things.
I bring a boarding plank on trukks, and deffrollas on wagons and use them for different purposes in same list
Anvildude wrote: I believe that Boarding Planks hit the side they're on? Not sure though.
I think you confused Boarding Plank with Wrecking Ball.
Thank you guys, for your feedback. I have another question/observation.
Many of my collegues, who plays Marines, changed their PowerFists on Sergants, to combi-weapons which means, Ork Nob with 'Eavy Armour and PowerKlaw, has pretty big chance to survive a challenge, and moreover, kill enemy character. So, meta changing, brought back PowerKlaw Nob. Did you notice it in your gaming groups?
ninjaska wrote: But attack from boardin plank would be against rear armour, which is mostly AV10, on the other hand Deff rolla woud be, mostly, hitting front armour. And since there is more Predators and anihilation barques than Razorback...
And if I understand it correctly, there is no jink/cover saves from power klaw.
Mutated: isn't Death or Glory with melta or Chainfist deadly for BattleWagon with Deffrolla?
Those are all artillery vehicles (just like russes, fire prisms or other similar vehicles), usually hiding somewhere in the very back of your opponents army. I don't really count on my battlewagons getting there, and if they do - just disembark and wreck it. You battlewagon is probably showing its rear to a whole lot of enemy guns - better get out before you suffer from the S4 explosion. It's also really easy to ram side armor instead of front armor.
Both chain fist and melta hit front armor, and despite the odds, 8+2d6 quite often fails to stop the battlewagon - and even if it does, the additional 2d6 S10 hits can often kill enough models to make a DoG unattractive. Especially with chainfists (or monstrous creatures), people usually just get out of the way, to charge the battlewagon next turn.
Hits from Planking are rear armour. They are treated as if the model doing the planking is assaulting the vehicle in question. Walkers are as if you were assaulting said walker, but you can't be locked in combat as a result.
Balls would be resolved against the facing they are in, i think.
I like to run my BW with Klaws, Balls and Rollas. Call me old fashioned
What I want to know is if it's allowable to buy more than one Ball or Klaw, to have the extra coverage. You'd only get the benefit of one, but you could, for instance, have a Ball on either side, or a Klaw on both the front and on the back...
If you pay the ten points for each ball, then sure. Buy as many as you want. But don't try to stack eight on one side and say you can hit me with all eight of them or something crazy like that.
Nah. Rules preclude that- "A vehicle with a... may make a..."
Nothing for duplicates. Just like the Flash Gitz weapon addon wording. I still think, though, that the Gitz ought to be able to use more than one of each kind of upgrade, though- I'd pay the 180 points for 3 Nobz with Strength 10 Assault 3 weapons that ignore cover...
Ok, I'm coming back to Orks after a long hiatus and I'm sort of soaking up what's changed with the Ork meta.
I'm annoyed that I have to shell out for the flyer expansion in order to use the dakkajet - while I generally don't like fliers, that mini is too nice not to add to my collection at some point.
My main question is: is: are slugga boyz as awful an investment as they look in 6E? I have a black reach box's worth of them I'm unsure wht to do with. While they were (imo) sub-optimal compared to shootas before, the changes wrought by 6E make them look absolutely dreadful while shootas look better than they used to what with overwatch.
As an aside, are there any rumours as to when there's likely to be a new codex?
A Kvlt Ghost wrote: Ok, I'm coming back to Orks after a long hiatus and I'm sort of soaking up what's changed with the Ork meta.
I'm annoyed that I have to shell out for the flyer expansion in order to use the dakkajet - while I generally don't like fliers, that mini is too nice not to add to my collection at some point.
My main question is: is: are slugga boyz as awful an investment as they look in 6E? I have a black reach box's worth of them I'm unsure wht to do with. While they were (imo) sub-optimal compared to shootas before, the changes wrought by 6E make them look absolutely dreadful while shootas look better than they used to what with overwatch.
As an aside, are there any rumours as to when there's likely to be a new codex?
Slugga boyz works good for trukk/Bw rush but Shootas works best for BW / greentides.
Yeah shootas got a boost but the rest of the dex is about the same. We suffer from blasts/ignores cover and mech. Though allies/ADL have helped on that front.
On the 40k relase rumor thread we may see SM get a new dex in November and then it's a crap shoot for Orks/IG/Nids etc.
Sluggas and shootas were about equal last edition, with shootaz slightly ahead. The new edition made shooting a lot better (less cover, overwatch, snap fire), while close combat got worse/more unreliable (near useless Waagh!, overwatch, random charge distances, removing models from the front). So without doubt, shoota boyz are always superior to slugga boys outside of trukks.
You dont "have" to get dakkajets btw. I never use them despite owning 3 and the white dwarf rules (feth that stupid 40dollar sink for planes). My issue with them is Lootas do every bit as much damage as they do and tend to last longer because of the position theyre in. Also cheaper for the amount of fire. Yes, its a different FOC slot, but unless youre playing a rather large game you wont have points for much more than 1-2 groups of lootas and 2-3 dakkajets; and as we all know, boyz before toyz and we'd have too many toyz in most games if we did that. Always found it weird that they only pump out 9 TL shots that are str6, which is kinda low even for orks for such a high price and fragile unit. Now if it was AP3, i'd gladly take the Str6 over higher strength because now orks have something we really lack outside melee - anti marine.
On another subject...
Been thinking. I started playing some straightup Tau games instead of allying them into my orks/vice versa and noticed i am always using every foc slot. Whenever i play orks, i usually have no FA or Heavy unless im just dinkin around. And it hurts me whenever we get Big Guns Never Tire or The Scouring because i dont get bonus scoring units (though i HATE IT when i get Scouring when i got 3 dakkajets, basically free 3 points for my opponent). Has anyone found any lists that have any credibility to them that use more than troops/elites? I know Kannons are a dirt cheap heavy choice, i just usually dont have the spare points without cutting boyz down (which is a nono as 80 in a 1750pt game is low as it is)
SAG gives good anti MEQ or TEQ, despite people being afraid of those mishaps.
If your meta allows FW (which it should) the Grot Bomm launcha is quite possibly the most cost effective anti Marine (and anti-Manty) unit in the game
For me Kannons/Lobbas are an auto-include in every list that doesn't use Heavy. They are literally so points cost efficient that it's worth dropping whatever it takes to get them in there. What they aren't though is slot-efficient ~ for the slot they take up they're not *that* great. So if your not using Heavy, good god give these things a try and they won't let you down. At the very least, take solo kannons with maximum ammo runts for even higher value for points.
Same goes for Grot Bomms and FA. They're a great counter to artillery heavy lists like Manticore spam IG, and even if there aren't any such targets on the field then theres always something else to bomb with a highly accurate S8 AP3 barrage pie plate.
actually every time i have fielded kannons i didnt have ammo runts, oddly enough. Two groups with ammo runts and a couple extra dudes is the same cost as a third with none of that fancy stuff. And i have to admit, that game was funny. Three groups of 3 kannons guarded 2 groups of lootas....my opponent did NOT want to get anywhere close to that ball of dakka rofl (though a bit pricy)
My issue is i just love bikernobz too much. Bikernobs + 4 groups of 20 boyz + 2 groups of 10 lootas usually takes most of my points if not all of it, and aside from shaving some lootas i just dont see a way to cut points (and i always feel uneasy shaving lootas). That one game i had with kannons was an oddball 1999pt game, i usually go 1500-1750 EDIT: And after saying that i throw a 1750pt list together and managed to get 3x 3 Kannon batteries with no problem. The hell have i been getting? lol i need a game now.
btw, jumping on the boardingplank/deffrolla bandwagon: I love planks, theyre cheap and for trukks atleast add another level of use because S3 explosion thanks to Ramshackle isnt that big a deal, and i'd rather zoom up, plank a random vehicle too far up, and stay in the vehicle to force at least 1 round of wasted shooting to get my boyz out. Usually only lose 2-3 boyz to trukk explosion, and if i planked something theyre going to get a LOT more damage than that if i just disembark, not to mention odds of the vehicle i just klawed up exploding in my face which is just as bad. However they arent that viable anymore because vehicles except fliers are usually rare, and when seen theyre popped by our Lootas before we even get there. Planks only work against vehicles, i really wish it expanded to MC as well hehehehe that would be glorious to let the klaw slice up a MC without worry about a challenge or being smashed first. And it makes sense to me, because i envision the boarding plank as just a platform that drops and the ork uses it to extend his reach, slicing the other vehicle as they drive by. Not actually stopping and "boarding" it since theres no hidden combat going on between passengers (thatd be hilarious though)
Deffrollas give your transport more use than cockblocking vision once you empty your boyz out. And as stated before, S4 hurts...i tend to lose 6-9 orks when a wagon blows up. I dont want to be in that thing any longer than i have to. The AP- and no anti-cover makes killing MEQs impossible but its still a better chance than not doing anything, and its definitely crazy strong against other vehicles. Also, dont forget if they DoG a deffrolla they take 2D6 wounds whether the DoG was successful or not. That alone makes people not want to do it.
"Lobba"
I played a game against IG using 3 units of 3 lobbas and 2 units of 5 Lootas, and they were amazing ... the lobbas killed so many IG infantry and heavy weapon teams (mainly no cover and no armor with AP5 with indirect fire) and damaged so many vehicles (their side armor of 10 is hit by lobbas and so easy to glance) that he just freaked out. The lootas glanced/wrecked so many Chimera while hidden in ruins (even when gone to ground they still hit on "6") and the Lobbas were too far away (48" range is amazing) ... Nobzbikers, meganobz and a BW full of boyz were the primary targets of the IG ... and Buggies (I just love them) are so cheap to block enemy vehicles (he's either wasting shots on them or shooting real targets and getting blocked by these pesky little fellows).
"FA"
I almost always take Buggies (as mentioned above). And the flamer buggy (take only one) is so long, it blocks perfectly by itself.
"BW and boyz"
Yes, get them out ASAP ... when the Valkyrie got on board, it blew the BW and 13 out of the 20 boyz inside it (15 hits, 2 armor saves) ... it was so annoying.
"Vehicles in 6E"
In the games I play, I still see a lot of vehicles being used. Vehicles are so useful, even with the Hull Points.
Personnally, what GW should have done is for a glancing hit to:
1- Not lose a HP.
2- Roll on another damage table: 1-4 Shaken 5-6 Stunned .... and nothing else.
I can attest to the effectiveness of Lobbas against light armour and troops. They're an auto-include when I know I'm up against guard, and they massacre soldiers and can even reliably stunlock/kill IG big guns with typically three S5 hits vs AV 10 per battery
Never, ever even considered using buggies. But now that I think about it, for 35 points each you can have whats essentially a TL Rokkit kopta that trades outflanking and T5 W2 for a 10 point discount, AV 10 and fearless. It's 22% cheaper, just as fast (though it can't outflank), similar durability, and won't run off of the board when you use them in squads like a deff kopta will. Thats actually pretty damn good... I've always shied away from the kopta due to that leadership issue, very very interested in giving these a go
I prefer burna bommers over lobbas for that job though. You can pretty much carpet-bomb any light-armored infantry off the table in one bombing run, two missiles, a bomb and a supa-shoota murder anything with a worse save than 3+ and even get to ignore cover on most of these.
Ever since 6th came out (originally I was told it was going back to a lot of 4th edition rules). It seems that Gork is no longer smiling upon us. I disagree about orks being cheap, Though compared to a space marine they are cheaper, but the standard Ork Boyz is not even in the same class as a Standard Marine. I think Ork cost to much for what you get. I love their randomness (when I can get it) but even this should be reflected in their cost.
Why don't people take Zagstuck and Vulca Boys? Because you lose 12 to 36 points just to get them on the field. on top of that you don't have any upgrade options - so it's basically a Slugga Boy that dies quicker. Don't get me started on misshaping Deep Strike. This unit would be great, if I didn't have to spend 325 points for them.
Why don't people take Flash Gitz, because for their price (they are expensive at 525 pts) they have to move within 18" of the opponent to do their thing and they are so-so in melee. Also they take up a Heavy Support slot, the choice between a Battlewagon (110 pts) or a Flash Gitz mob.
Kommandos are suppose to be these incredible fighters, instead they are just 10 pt Slugga Boyz with moves through cover, that once they come on the board they have to wait until the next turn to be useful - They usually don't make it to a second turn.
Orks went from being a very versatile army list to only Speed Freaks or Battlewagons. Don't forget to take your 2 squads of Lootas. The randomness is gone and I no longer play to win, I only play to act crazy making ork sounds and goof around until the game is over. As they stand right now, Orks can not be a competitive army and the only way to win is to have your opponent make several tactical errors. I'll get off my soapbox now
Sleg wrote: Ever since 6th came out (originally I was told it was going back to a lot of 4th edition rules). It seems that Gork is no longer smiling upon us. I disagree about orks being cheap, Though compared to a space marine they are cheaper, but the standard Ork Boyz is not even in the same class as a Standard Marine. I think Ork cost to much for what you get. I love their randomness (when I can get it) but even this should be reflected in their cost.
Why don't people take Zagstuck and Vulca Boys? Because you lose 12 to 36 points just to get them on the field. on top of that you don't have any upgrade options - so it's basically a Slugga Boy that dies quicker. Don't get me started on misshaping Deep Strike. This unit would be great, if I didn't have to spend 325 points for them.
Why don't people take Flash Gitz, because for their price (they are expensive at 525 pts) they have to move within 18" of the opponent to do their thing and they are so-so in melee. Also they take up a Heavy Support slot, the choice between a Battlewagon (110 pts) or a Flash Gitz mob.
Kommandos are suppose to be these incredible fighters, instead they are just 10 pt Slugga Boyz with moves through cover, that once they come on the board they have to wait until the next turn to be useful - They usually don't make it to a second turn.
Orks went from being a very versatile army list to only Speed Freaks or Battlewagons. Don't forget to take your 2 squads of Lootas. The randomness is gone and I no longer play to win, I only play to act crazy making ork sounds and goof around until the game is over. As they stand right now, Orks can not be a competitive army and the only way to win is to have your opponent make several tactical errors. I'll get off my soapbox now
I don't think orks are doing that bad competitively. I'll take the numbers over quality any day. That being said Tau are a big problem, I like hordes with cover saves and without them I die quickly and painfully, that being said I did actually win against them.
Tau do seem to be the death for my hordes. possibly even the eldar.
Tau we're the 3rd most represted army, and didn't even make top 4, and apparently orks work well as allies to necrons. As horde armies seem to be the least popular of the armies, playing them means most of your opponents haven't planned as much on dealing with them.
Probably the only ork ally that was viable was the old tau because 3 Broadsides was literally all you needed to make Orks a crazy scary army even in the competitive scene. Thats gone now, and quite frankly Orks with Tau allies sucks balls now. Its now Tau with 60 boyz and a random Mek allied in for about 500pts or so off the top of my head.
Now that the broadsides suck, its just straight up orks. And i honestly feel that Boyz are the only thing in our codex thats actually cost equivalent to other races. Yes all of our stuf is ~20-50pts cheaper for our equivs but they are not even HALF as good so the cost goes out the window. Looted Wagons vs Leman Russes is the most obvious comparison - ~40-60pts cheaper depending on upgrades and AV11 vs AV14, 36" vs 72" .... not justifying the cost cut at all here. Even if it was 48" it would be much better costwise. But no, 36" puts it close enough so its weak face can be stripped off by a single lascannon no matter how well you position yourself.
In England Orks are listed at the bottom and I'm a rare player because I only play orks - you would never see me field any other army. They are considered by most competitive players, the most limited and with 6th favoring the shooters non threating army in the game.
Every Army has that 1 figure you just have to have. Imperial has Lemin Rus Tanks, Space wolves have Long Fangs, Tyranids have Hive Guard, etc. etc. What do Orks have? Lootas and they will gain 'gets hot' only because Orks shouldn't have a must take figure. Over half the units in the codex, no one really takes (I do but I'm goofy like that). I wont count the Lootas, but think of when the last time you built a force without a Battlewagon or Bikkers. Because ork vehicles and walkers need a save (especially in the first 2 turns of the game), you should always take at least one Big Mek KFF. So now a third of your armies points plus a HQ and 2 Elite slots - that's even before you begin building your army. I know I need protection for my lootas and the ADL (when they go to ground give a 2+ cover save) otherwise I use 2 heavy support slots for 2 battlewagons and I still haven't figured out what my army is.
6th edition was built for Tau - it's like they had Tau in mind when they made the rulebook. If the Tau players didn't place higher than 4th and had a large Tau showing, I blame the players for either not playing the Tau properly and exploiting their strengths. With the Exception of only 2 other armies (Tyranids and Deamons) the Tau should have just crushed everyone without even breaking a sweat.
Every time i DONT field them, even at small point games, i have this glaring hole in my army and my opponent exploits it. Ive taken a single group of lootas before just to either take out the random flier or force that flier to deal with the lootas and not my much more deadlier and not in combat yet bikernobz lol
Every time i DONT field them, even at small point games, i have this glaring hole in my army and my opponent exploits it. Ive taken a single group of lootas before just to either take out the random flier or force that flier to deal with the lootas and not my much more deadlier and not in combat yet bikernobz lol
Iv'e had trukk rush armies without lootas, being allready close combat that fast makes me avoid the flyers
Sleg wrote: In England Orks are listed at the bottom and I'm a rare player because I only play orks - you would never see me field any other army. They are considered by most competitive players, the most limited and with 6th favoring the shooters non threating army in the game.
Every Army has that 1 figure you just have to have. Imperial has Lemin Rus Tanks, Space wolves have Long Fangs, Tyranids have Hive Guard, etc. etc. What do Orks have? Lootas and they will gain 'gets hot' only because Orks shouldn't have a must take figure. Over half the units in the codex, no one really takes (I do but I'm goofy like that). I wont count the Lootas, but think of when the last time you built a force without a Battlewagon or Bikkers. Because ork vehicles and walkers need a save (especially in the first 2 turns of the game), you should always take at least one Big Mek KFF. So now a third of your armies points plus a HQ and 2 Elite slots - that's even before you begin building your army. I know I need protection for my lootas and the ADL (when they go to ground give a 2+ cover save) otherwise I use 2 heavy support slots for 2 battlewagons and I still haven't figured out what my army is.
6th edition was built for Tau - it's like they had Tau in mind when they made the rulebook. If the Tau players didn't place higher than 4th and had a large Tau showing, I blame the players for either not playing the Tau properly and exploiting their strengths. With the Exception of only 2 other armies (Tyranids and Deamons) the Tau should have just crushed everyone without even breaking a sweat.
I've never been a fan of the ADL, But after facing a tau army that didn't give me a single cover save I'm taking the skyshield for my lootas, and I'll probably end up throwing a SAG and a looted wagon up there as well.
ADL depends on who youre playing. Fortifications screw around with the board rules for deploying/setting up terrain and make no freaking sense. You can easily screw over an ADL by placing a big terrain chunk in front of it, which is perfectly legal. Why you would "fortify" a location that cant shoot anything is beyond me but apparently GW thinks thats how it should be.
One gun with 48-72" range is not broken if it gets free reign over the table, and it has no elevation so things behind it can rarely get their whole range.
We usually deploy it with the army because it makes WAY more sense that way.
What's the current thinking on burnas? I want some in my army because I really love the minis, but they seem so incredibly situational that I'd almost have to gear the rest of my army around them in order to make them effective.
i dont see burna wagons being any more than downright hilarious and fun. Move more than 7" with RPJ, you cant fire. And it puts the BW in a critical place that removes a LOT of what little defenses it has.
Vineheart01 wrote: ADL depends on who youre playing. Fortifications screw around with the board rules for deploying/setting up terrain and make no freaking sense. You can easily screw over an ADL by placing a big terrain chunk in front of it, which is perfectly legal. Why you would "fortify" a location that cant shoot anything is beyond me but apparently GW thinks thats how it should be.
One gun with 48-72" range is not broken if it gets free reign over the table, and it has no elevation so things behind it can rarely get their whole range.
We usually deploy it with the army because it makes WAY more sense that way.
I've never seen fortifications actually used the way GW says to use them. We're pretty liberal with the "feth that makes no sense, change it" attitude around here.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
A Kvlt Ghost wrote: What's the current thinking on burnas? I want some in my army because I really love the minis, but they seem so incredibly situational that I'd almost have to gear the rest of my army around them in order to make them effective.
Vineheart01 wrote: i dont see burna wagons being any more than downright hilarious and fun. Move more than 7" with RPJ, you cant fire. And it puts the BW in a critical place that removes a LOT of what little defenses it has.
Take Dread Mob allies, and you can run Burnas with a dedicated transport trukk. Otherwise load them up in a Big Squiggoth. Either of these >>> battlewagons IMO, largely because losing half your squad of 15 point burna boys when the vehicle blows up is super gak.
The Burnas themselves are fantastic units. They'll murder hordes and can even kill MEQ or TEQ through weight of fire. Their power weapon is seriously overrated though, only any good if they charge in behind other boys to take the hits. Striking last with such an expensive and fragile model is not fun.
Vineheart01 wrote: i dont see burna wagons being any more than downright hilarious and fun. Move more than 7" with RPJ, you cant fire. And it puts the BW in a critical place that removes a LOT of what little defenses it has.
Well, it did quite well for me. I think it actually got an extra layer of protection, due to 15-16x wall of death overwatch when anyone attempts to charge them. Just like for lootaz or tankbustaz, the S4 explosion is a kick in the nuts though. Losing another 120 points worth in orks on top of the 120 point battlewagon breaks the deal imo.
I think the the dakkajet pretty much does the same as the burna wagon (puts a metric ton of wounds into something), and doesn't require as much maneuvering as a burna wagon. Since dakka jet+20 boyz cost only a little more than 15 burnaz, I prefer going that route.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dakkamite wrote: Take Dread Mob allies, and you can run Burnas with a dedicated transport trukk. Otherwise load them up in a Big Squiggoth. Either of these >>> battlewagons IMO, largely because losing half your squad of 15 point burna boys when the vehicle blows up is super gak.
Or put the painboss with the burnaz and maybe cybork them - you won't care about the explosion (or incoming small army fire) in that case.
Edit: Wtf, I literally posted your exact idea at the same time that you did.
With a Painboss and KFF you'd lose like 3 Burnas out of 15. Not bad at all.
Edit #2: Wouldn't bother with the cybork. I'm a strong believer that spending 33% of the price of the model for a 33% durability boost... without a boost to firepower or speed or something, isn't really worth it.
Now a cyborked Squiggoth, that could be good fun =D
ive never delved into FW and i kinda dont want to. That stuff is crazy expensive, i need another rulebook, and theres plenty of people that believe EVERYTHING from FW is broken as hell...which it isnt long as you leave out the obvious apoc only stuff (StrD stuff for instance)
In regards to the ADL a lot of tournaments have players take turns placing the terrain on the table (but only in their own table half) or will have tables with presetup terrain. Both of these will prevent someone from sticking a huge piece of LOS blocking terrain in from of you ADL.
Vineheart01 wrote: ive never delved into FW and i kinda dont want to. That stuff is crazy expensive, i need another rulebook, and theres plenty of people that believe EVERYTHING from FW is broken as hell...which it isnt long as you leave out the obvious apoc only stuff (StrD stuff for instance)
You should still get Imperial Armor 8 from somewhere. Even without rules, it's an awesome read and has lots of great pictures. As for shelling out for forgeworld stuff, you can easily build a viable dreadmob army without ever visiting forgeworld's homepage to order something:
- Scraptrukks are slower trukks with a grabbin' klaw and more armor.
- A painboss is a painboy with the independent character rule.
- A mekkboy junka is a looted rhino with a deff rolla and a funky engine/more exhaust pipes.
- Cybork slashers are nobz with even more cybork parts (terrible rules though).
- Spanna boyz are boyz with toolish-looking weapons, converting a choppa into a spanna is so easy, even a blind grot with one arm could do it.
- Gretchin scavengers are gretchin with grenades.
- Sardsnark da Rippa is a biker warboss with a chainsaw for an arm.
- Lifta-Droppas are battlewagons with a doomsday looking kannon in the back. Either scratchbuild it or raid toys'r'us.
- Killa kanz, Deff dreads, burnaz, lootaz, meks, big meks are all stock models.
The only things which are truly unique are Mekboss Buzzgob, mega/mekka dreads, grot tanks and big trakks. You'd have to scratchbuild or buy those.
Grot Tanks are easy as to scratch build, and also any number of cheap WW2 model tanks could suffice. I tried making Big Trakks without enough research and ended up with nine Battlewagon/Looted Wagon vehicles instead. They seem to be about the size of a trukk, but lower and a little wider.
Imperial Armour 8 is very easy to get your hands on if you talk to the right people.
Dakkamite wrote: Grot Tanks are easy as to scratch build, and also any number of cheap WW2 model tanks could suffice. I tried making Big Trakks without enough research and ended up with nine Battlewagon/Looted Wagon vehicles instead. They seem to be about the size of a trukk, but lower and a little wider.
Imperial Armour 8 is very easy to get your hands on if you talk to the right people.
Or know what Google is...
So here's a question: if you had to choose one or the other, do you think it's better to take bunas or lootas?
I guess to a degree it depends on your dice luck. I have miserable luck throwing dice so my lootas have never performed the way they should even though I've fielded them dozens of times. Flamers are less dependent on dice rolling, but they are much more dependent on precise deployment in battle in order to get the most out of them.
The ADL is scrap against Drop Pods and/or Ignores Cover weapons. It's great for anything that doesn't move - SAG and Big Gunz, if you place your quad gun in the right spot tey will have to dig out your Kannons to use it (if they don't control it you still do, even without a figure next to it BS 2. For an Ork that's shooting as usual.
Lootas in a Battlewagon is very cool. especially if you have Meks with Big Shootas, sitting in there doing repairs. You can move (still snap shot) and face it to any flanking mob. If one shot is in range they all are - I wish they gave lootas a Battlewagon as a Dedicated Transport.
For those taking allied Dread Mob, do you find the painboss needs a mob with a Nob?
I'm looking at the spanna boyz mob and I don't know what to do with them.
If you are not allying the dread mob, and apoc is not allowed, how hare you getting the Squigoth/Grot Bomm?
Related:
How does the squigoth relate to those it is transported: what happens when the squigoth dies while the boyz are still inside and does the Squigoth interact with the mob inside differently because its an MC?
Accipiter wrote: For those taking allied Dread Mob, do you find the painboss needs a mob with a Nob?
I'm looking at the spanna boyz mob and I don't know what to do with them.
If you are not allying the dread mob, and apoc is not allowed, how hare you getting the Squigoth/Grot Bomm?
Related:
How does the squigoth relate to those it is transported: what happens when the squigoth dies while the boyz are still inside and does the Squigoth interact with the mob inside differently because its an MC?
Related:
Now that's a great question, I've been debating getting a couple squigoths and would like to know as well.
I can see that Rules debate going 2 ways,
nice way: deploy as an emergency disembarkation.
Mean way, Removing the model takes its passengers with it. As there are no rules to tell you how to disembark from MC transports.
Accipiter wrote: For those taking allied Dread Mob, do you find the painboss needs a mob with a Nob?
I'm looking at the spanna boyz mob and I don't know what to do with them.
If you are not allying the dread mob, and apoc is not allowed, how hare you getting the Squigoth/Grot Bomm?
Spanna Boys aren't a bad deal. Their restricted number means you can get a mob of basic boyz cheap, and/or equip them with cybork bodies. Taking the minimum means you get a sturdy meat shield. Toss them in a Scrap Trukk if you run a vehicle army. If you have a high-points game, taking the full 20 and giving them cybork and running them with a KFF gives you a really sturdy meat shield. This is assuming you're using them as allies in an Ork army, like I do. Stick your main force KFF in with the Spannas, and have the Painboss start out with a full blob of main force Boyz (that are within cover of the KFF obviously). You don't need a Nob because the Painboss can lead them (as all orks are Battle Brothers, any ork IC can join/lead any mob in the force). Taking all HQs available will give you a Warboss and KFF, or two KFFs - I'm considering building another KFF for just this purpose - and a Painboss that can go wherever they're needed. As you're always going to want more boyz somewhere the spannas are a decent way to fill in any gaps.
As for Squiggoths/Grot Bomms, couldn't you run a Dread army with them and leave out the dreads? The Dread army list is more or less better than the standard Ork codex with all the worst parts taken out. The only really sucky part is the 20 boy mobz.
Accipiter wrote: For those taking allied Dread Mob, do you find the painboss needs a mob with a Nob?
I'm looking at the spanna boyz mob and I don't know what to do with them.
If you are not allying the dread mob, and apoc is not allowed, how hare you getting the Squigoth/Grot Bomm?
Related:
How does the squigoth relate to those it is transported: what happens when the squigoth dies while the boyz are still inside and does the Squigoth interact with the mob inside differently because its an MC?
Related:
Now that's a great question, I've been debating getting a couple squigoths and would like to know as well.
I can see that Rules debate going 2 ways,
nice way: deploy as an emergency disembarkation.
Mean way, Removing the model takes its passengers with it. As there are no rules to tell you how to disembark from MC transports.
Yes I quoted myself
Speaking of squiggoths, Can the squiggoth run and the unit inside still shoot? Because as is mentioned many times in the rules area "flat out" is not "running"
Has anyone used these and can give me a run down on all the weird quirks on what it does, and what issues it creates? or any pro/con kind of discussion on them?
Accipiter wrote: If you are not allying the dread mob, and apoc is not allowed, how hare you getting the Squigoth/Grot Bomm?
They're allowed in the standard Ork codex. See IAA:2e
How does the squigoth relate to those it is transported: what happens when the squigoth dies while the boyz are still inside and does the Squigoth interact with the mob inside differently because its an MC?
It says treat it exactly like an open topped vehicle for the purposes of transport. When a vehicle dies the dudes jump out, so when the Squiggoth dies the dudes also jump out.
Sorry, but I'm still a little confused. So the Lifta Droppa can't be taken in regular 40k games for Codex: Orks? I really like the model and want to field it, but I cant find the rules or PDF update that was talked about earlier. Can someone please point me in the direction of those too?
Uhg. Is it me or do their rules just get fething worse
)
Ever since 6th came out (originally I was told it was going back to a lot of 4th edition rules). It seems that Gork is no longer smiling upon us. I disagree about orks being cheap, Though compared to a space marine they are cheaper, but the standard Ork Boyz is not even in the same class as a Standard Marine. I think Ork cost to much for what you get. I love their randomness (when I can get it) but even this should be reflected in their cost.
