wtwlf123 wrote:But it still provides two full turns of Fleet right?

Two player turns, not game turns. So you won't get the benefits in more than one of your own turns.

Beer4TheBeerGod wrote:

wtwlf123 wrote:For those with a lot of 6th ed. Ork experience, how have Challenges changed CC?

The old strategy of losing orks off the back line of combat while inflicting PK wounds with the squad's Nob is more-or-less over now, ya?

How are assault-based Ork lists handling this issue?

Yes, you can no longer rely on a hidden PK nob to survive and tear apart space marines. I've heard some players talk about just not using nobs at all, which I'm not convinced us but am seriously considering. Nobs seriously suffer in terms of what weapons they can bring. A power klaw, while fantastic against vehicles, sucks against anything other than a throw away character. Necron Lords with their mindshackle scarabs are particularly insane. On the other hand PK Nobs remain the primary means by which you can reliably destroy vehicles and in fact have gotten much better at that job since vehicles are so much easier to hit.

I'm keeping my PK Nobs for now. I seriously consider the likelihood of surviving during challenges. Against something I have no shot (including mindshackle scarabs) I'll just refuse the challenge and let my boyz do the work. Against another upgrade character it will depend on how much damage they can do. Most upgrade characters can't reliably do 2 wounds to a T4 model in a single round of assault, so against those characters I'll accept the challenge and let my PK do its job.

Give the Nob a Big Shoota (or Rokkit, maybe). It's "Ork in the mob" not "Boy in the mob" in the rules, so you can give you Character (Nob) an Assault 3, 36" range Str5AP5 gun to try and get sniping sixes with.



For Flash Gitz, I run about 6. I'm trying to get a few more modelled up. And 40 points is the cost of a Meganob, so I don't consider it too much. And yes, a Warphead would be amazing with them.

Interesting thing is, with the 2x FoC at 2000, GW's managed to essentially fix most of what was keeping Flash Gitz from being more used- lack of Heavy Support, and lack of Wierdboy support for them- but then they also went and gave them a bonus rule of ignoring cover. Now, when you really, really want a small infantry squad removed, you just point Gitz at them, no matter where they are.

wtwlf123 wrote:I had another question about Ghazghkull's errata'd PotW! ability: It was "nerfed" in that it only adds a bonus to the running phase and you can't run and charge anymore. But it still provides two full turns of Fleet right? I don't care about his PotW! only guaranteeing a 6 for running so long as I still get back to back turns with Fleet for my entire Waaagh!-ing force.

The Fearless part was also removed. Whether on purpose or by accident is unclear.

I am unsure why the Zzap gun dislike. I get the downsides, but the upsides have served me well. Admittedly I have had games where they did nothing, in 5th, but in 6th I've roasted LR and Termies, marine and Eldar bikes, and popped a bike captain with one shot. All in one game. Kannons would be more consistent but the chance for a terminator or AV 14 kill has worked. Not superior. Just a right tool for the job sort of thing.

I think in 6th everything in our codex finally has a place without being 100% worthless, even the Gitz. Heck, I'm actually eager to use things like artillery and Flash Gitz and Tankbusters more. Lobbas are barrage. Start pointing at special weapons eh?

I know the new codices coming out will skew power levels, but we've got some awesome troops, heavy, flyers, fast, and some of our elites are scary dangerous and everyone knows it. I know Kans and Dreads are relegated to theme and fluff without a lot of consideration in the list building, but I ran a unit of kans with the lead rolling extra armor and riggers for all and immobilization just gave me more units. For their points grotzookas and KMB are good and might be the way to go. AP 2 S8 is not bad at all.

Just my observations after a few games on a few things. I don't think we are nerfed. I always ran shoota boyz in 5th and the practice will pay off in 6th. Our Dakka lists, IMO, will be something to reckon with. Just can't trust in the overwhelming assault by T2-3. More likely a T4-5 finishing assault after blowing units away or whittling them to minor threats. I look forward to NOT moving a ton of boys very far, just rolling a ton of dice and watching as they fume as they inevitably fail saves.

Ive played a couple games where I left the PK off the nob, and didnt like it at all. I either wished I had it for krumping good armor saves, or wished I had it because of MC or the like. Just leave the Nob in the back, and go from there, because trust me, that PK is STILL very much needed.

but is it needed on all the troups choices? or we take it on about half the units and add in more boys?

Has anyone used the Burna Wagon now? I'd imagine it's just as awesome, but with added Wall of Death goodness.

virx67 wrote:Why not just keep the nobz way in the back? Sure, they are monsters at CC, but since you remove at the front, it doesn't really help them. I will be running them as the absolute last person to get into a melee, only coming to the front if they are fighting a weak opponent or a vehicle. I've always viewed their only purpose for the boss pole, and as a vehicle cracker. Anything else was just icing on the cake.

They can still be targeted by precision shooting and can be challenged. Personally I like having them be about 5" away from the carnage when they charge. That way they can avoid having a wound allocatted to them and yet still be capable of getting their attacks in thanks to the 3" pile-in move.

Anvildude wrote:
Give the Nob a Big Shoota (or Rokkit, maybe). It's "Ork in the mob" not "Boy in the mob" in the rules, so you can give you Character (Nob) an Assault 3, 36" range Str5AP5 gun to try and get sniping sixes with.

I was already doing that for my shoota boyz in 5th edition, but I hadn't considered the benefit of precision shots. My nobs are already modeled with big shootas so I might just give that a shot in my slugga boy squad. Especially since I can still snap fire while my battlewagon is running around and sixes are what I would care about the most anyway. If it kills a single special weapons character it's made its points.

Beer4TheBeerGod wrote:They can still be targeted by precision shooting and can be challenged.

Just remember that if he's not engaged, he can't be challenged.

I was already doing that for my shoota boyz in 5th edition, but I hadn't considered the benefit of precision shots. My nobs are already modeled with big shootas so I might just give that a shot in my slugga boy squad. Especially since I can still snap fire while my battlewagon is running around and sixes are what I would care about the most anyway. If it kills a single special weapons character it's made its points.

Can't precision shot when Snap Firing.

One of the things to think about is if you don't take a nob or a pk, what can you get instead? It's 45 points (for the typical pk / bp / arma) which doesn't seem like much but let's say you dropped them from two squads, now we're at 90. Now let's drop the 3 big shootas or rokkits and that's another 30-60, we'll say 120 points total from 2 big squads. That's a dakka jet, or another squad of 20 shoota boyz, or 8 more lootas! Now, would that make up for not having a nob? That's the question. With that said, if you're using trukk or battlewagon boyz you're probably always going to want that nob and his upgrades.

Obviously gonna depend heavily on what you're trying to do and your list but for me, I wasn't getting much out of the nob upgrades as my shootas tend to find an objective and sit there while my lootas / dakka jets / kannons blast away. In that sense I'm able to bring more "toyz" while keeping a lot of scoring units in cheap boyz squads.

However, playing against my friends I don't see much av 14 which could be a huge weakness. I just wonder though, how often does a nob in a boyz squad actually get to melee a landraider or something? My opinion is that a geared nob leader for boyz squads probably isn't worth it. He's either going to be super effective and cleave down like 3 MEQ, do nothing to avoid the challenge, or die without doing anything. I feel like the first scenario is probably the least likely though, if your opponent knows what they're doing at all because they can significantly reduce the number of meatshields your nob gets and in some scenarios like nob bikers charging you, they would still get invul saves AND FNP now against your pk. Not to mention there are all kinds of ways to avoid them all together, deep striking directly behind the nob, jump packs can significantly change the angle of attack, snipers, precision shooting from other characters, barrage weapons, challenges, etc.

definitely needs more experimenting and testing though for sure, like I said, might just be the people im playing against or my list but I don't miss my nob leaders at all... so far....

Beer4TheBeerGod wrote:They can still be targeted by precision shooting and can be challenged.

If they're not engaged in combat, they can't be challenged though... right?

And since they pile in at their Int step, they still get to attack even though they can't be challenged!

Dribble Joy wrote:And since they pile in at their Int step, they still get to attack even though they can't be challenged!

Good. I was hoping there would be a way to abuse this. So the pile in move happens after the challenge can't be issued, so you can attack with the PK and avoid being locked in a challenge?

Indeed. Simply ensure the nob is over 2" from a friendly model in BtB at the start of a combat and he can't be challenged.

Of course, since the rules for assaulting state that you must get as many models into BtB and engaged as possible, this does require a degree of placement/planning.

Since the topic was brought up again, I'll repost the details as to how a Nob can be hidden:

1. "Challenges are issued at the start of the Fight sub-phase, before any blows are struck." pg. 64. This means this is before the initiative step pile-in moves.

2. "A model is engaged in combat, and must fight if:

- During its initiative step, it is in base contact with one or more enemy models.
- During its initiative step, it is within 2" of a friendly model in base contact with one or more enemy models in the same combat." pg 23.

3. "Characters that cannot fight or strike blows (including those that are not engaged with an enemy model) cannot issue challenges." pg. 64. This means your Nob can't issue a challenge either, because of clause 1.

4. "Characters that cannot fight or strike blows (including those that are not engaged with an enemy model) cannot accept challenges." pg. 64. This means Nobs that are not engaged as per clause 2 cannot accept challenges. Cannot accept challenges != refusing challenges.

5. "Models make their attacks when their Initiative step is reached.... Note that certain situations, abilities and weapons [Emphasis mine] can modify a model's Initiative." pg. 23. This means that a Nob piles in at I1 because of his PK and also attacks at I1 because of the PK.

6. "Wounds from Precision Strikes are allocated against an engaged model (or models) of your choice in the unit he is attacking, rather than following the normal rounds for Wound allocation." pg. 63. This means that a Nob cannot be picked out in combat because he is not engaged as per clause 2.


Note that of course this really only works in the first round of combat. Once the second round starts, the Nob can of course be challenged or be hit by Precision Strikes since he should be clearly engaged.

Thanks for that clarification.

And props on the 1K posts.

AresX8 wrote:Since the topic was brought up again, I'll repost the details as to how a Nob can be hidden:

1. "Challenges are issued at the start of the Fight sub-phase, before any blows are struck." pg. 64. This means this is before the initiative step pile-in moves.

2. "A model is engaged in combat, and must fight if:

- During its initiative step, it is in base contact with one or more enemy models.
- During its initiative step, it is within 2" of a friendly model in base contact with one or more enemy models in the same combat." pg 23.

3. "Characters that cannot fight or strike blows (including those that are not engaged with an enemy model) cannot issue challenges." pg. 64. This means your Nob can't issue a challenge either, because of clause 1.

4. "Characters that cannot fight or strike blows (including those that are not engaged with an enemy model) cannot accept challenges." pg. 64. This means Nobs that are not engaged as per clause 2 cannot accept challenges. Cannot accept challenges != refusing challenges.

5. "Models make their attacks when their Initiative step is reached.... Note that certain situations, abilities and weapons [Emphasis mine] can modify a model's Initiative." pg. 23. This means that a Nob piles in at I1 because of his PK and also attacks at I1 because of the PK.

6. "Wounds from Precision Strikes are allocated against an engaged model (or models) of your choice in the unit he is attacking, rather than following the normal rounds for Wound allocation." pg. 63. This means that a Nob cannot be picked out in combat because he is not engaged as per clause 2.


Note that of course this really only works in the first round of combat. Once the second round starts, the Nob can of course be challenged or be hit by Precision Strikes since he should be clearly engaged.

Excellent.....

The problem with that, as Jidmah has pointed out, and Ive seen in most of my games so far, is that you have a pretty good chance of getting a HIGH charge distance, and when that happens, your Nob WONT miss combat and WILL be challenged. So yes, you CAN position your nob to have a better chance of not being challenged, but so far in 6th, my Nobs have been challenged everytime

KingCracker wrote:The problem with that, as Jidmah has pointed out, and Ive seen in most of my games so far, is that you have a pretty good chance of getting a HIGH charge distance, and when that happens, your Nob WONT miss combat and WILL be challenged. So yes, you CAN position your nob to have a better chance of not being challenged, but so far in 6th, my Nobs have been challenged everytime

Right, it's only really useful if you plan to get charged which as an ork probably isn't your best option, though it's not terrible if you have a bunch of shoota boyz for overwatch!

Cracker, show me where in the rulebook that it says the Nob must make his charge move before the other Boyz. Pg. 63 says nothing about him having to make his charge move first, only that he must Pile In before other models if there are others going at the same initiative step as him (which for us is not the case).Just stick him in the very back of the mob, let the Boyz charge first, and he can't be challenged.

AresX8, show me how a 9+ inch charge move when your not very far away will keep your nob out of the assault? I never said anything about when the nob makes his moves, as it doesnt say he has to go first. Again, Im not saying you cannot do what is being discussed, Im simply saying, its harder then you lot are making it out to be.

You don't have to move the full 9 inches?

Pg. 21, under Charge Move -> Moving Charging Models
"All of the models in a charging unit make their charge move - up to [emphasis mine] the 2d6 distance you rolled earlier - following the same rules in the Movement phase, with the exception that they can be moved within 1" of enemy models."

If you roll a 9" charge and you're only 5" away from the enemy, you can just move the 5" to close the gap and have all of the Boyz block off the Nob. I've been doing this in every single game and my Nob has never been challenged on the first round of combat.

Dribble Joy wrote:

Beer4TheBeerGod wrote:They can still be targeted by precision shooting and can be challenged.

Just remember that if he's not engaged, he can't be challenged.

I was already doing that for my shoota boyz in 5th edition, but I hadn't considered the benefit of precision shots. My nobs are already modeled with big shootas so I might just give that a shot in my slugga boy squad. Especially since I can still snap fire while my battlewagon is running around and sixes are what I would care about the most anyway. If it kills a single special weapons character it's made its points.

Can't precision shot when Snap Firing.

Oh wow. Such tiny details that make HUGE differences. Also thanks to AresX8 for that helpful primer on combat. Remember order of charging on assault:

1) Move into base contact with a fresh enemy model.
2) Move into base contact with a previously engaged model.
3) Move within 2" of a squad mate.

Please note these rules also mean with some clever movement you can bridge a 6" gap for purposes of multi-charging, say if there's a nearby vehicle or something.

1) Engage every model in the first squad. Do your best to position your boyz such that you minimize the space in between models so that as few models as possible apply to step 2.
2) Fill up the "gaps" until you can no longer placed models in B2B contact with enemy models.
3) Make a conga line to the second target with the 2" spacing.
4) Engage the second target.

I know it would require some very lucky rolls and some very clever maneuvering on the part of the assaulting player, but it's another tool in the toolbox.

Kharrak wrote:*Zzap Guns are really great. That automatic glance means they can potentially remove two hull points per shot - at at very least, a single hull point on any target

Is everyone sure about this one ... does the Zzap Gun causes an extra Hull Point of damage or do you only add the Crew Shaken effect ?

It's under debate.

It would make ZZapps a tad more useful for the points, but my gut tells me that they just add a shaken effect in addition to whatever else they do, not take an extra HP.

Sorry for just jumping into the thread with questions, but I was wondering how peope view how well Kommandos (with Snikrot) work with the new rules?

Thanks in advance

I'm afraid that they now suck diseased donkey, most times.

You can't assault on the turn you come in, rendering Snikrot a tad useless.

The heavy weapons the squad carries 'might' do some damage, just like in 5th, but the squad is basically overpriced boyz in paper armour, who will die come the enemy shooting turn.

In 5th you could pretty much guarantee tying up/killing a devestator team or killing a vehicle with them when they dropped in, but in 6th they really aren't worth it.

Beer4TheBeerGod wrote:

1) Move into base contact with a fresh enemy model.
2) Move into base contact with a previously engaged model.
3) Move within 2" of a squad mate.

This is what makes it possible to fail hiding your nob on the charge. In the previous post's example if you charge 9 inches with enemies 5 inches away, you HAVE to engage each enemy model in base to base, so if you have 20 boyz and they have 10 of whatever, 10 boyz will essentially surround them in b2b. Then step 2 says you have to move any more orks in range into contact with a previously engaged guy, so most of the orks are now engaged. Finally, step 3 your nob gets pulled within 2 inches of a mate and is now engaged.

Clearly the more boyz you have and the less models the enemy being charged has makes a big difference in being able to hide your nob, on top of how many extra inches you make on the charge. Assuming this is all correct in some ratio's / situations it does seem impossible to "always hide your nob" though. Realistically, you probably should be able to "most of the time" IF you didn't roll a huge charge / needed distance difference and / or have a lot of boyz to enemy models.

If you needed 8 inches and roll 9 for example, it would be much much easier to keep the nob unengaged as your front units wouldn't be able to surround the enemy in most cases and limit the amount of bodies needed to fulfill 1) and 2) and you can move on to 3). Then you just need a 1 boy barrier between the engaged b2b boyz and the nob because step 3 only says "move within 2" of a squad mate" So move the nob 2 inches away from that "barrier" boy and you're good to go. I think that would work but could be wrong.

A recent Throne of Skulls tourney was won by an Ork list that included Snikrot. He was used to distract/split the fire of the armies he was up against by plonking a unit of orks on their back lines.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
By the way, what do you guys think about the FW Armoured Battlegroup as allies? No need to buggar about with poncy 'umies, just lots of looted tanks...

OP wrote:26.) You can now throw tankbusta bombs. Throw, as in 8" AP4 assault 1.

I couldn't find this anywhere. Where is this listed?

Page 416.

Dribble Joy wrote:A recent Throne of Skulls tourney was won by and Ork list that included Snikrot. He was used to distract/split the fire of the armies he was up against by plonking a unit of orks on their back lines.

heh interesting. The way I could see it being useful is if you were able to infiltrate or occupy a really nice piece of cover and just like go to ground, causing the enemy to waste more fire power than they would like.

There may be other uses for them but the main tactic from 5th of coming on and assault suiciding something dangerous is definitely gone

mondry wrote:

Beer4TheBeerGod wrote:

1) Move into base contact with a fresh enemy model.
2) Move into base contact with a previously engaged model.
3) Move within 2" of a squad mate.

This is what makes it possible to fail hiding your nob on the charge. In the previous post's example if you charge 9 inches with enemies 5 inches away, you HAVE to engage each enemy model in base to base, so if you have 20 boyz and they have 10 of whatever, 10 boyz will essentially surround them in b2b. Then step 2 says you have to move any more orks in range into contact with a previously engaged guy, so most of the orks are now engaged. Finally, step 3 your nob gets pulled within 2 inches of a mate and is now engaged.

Clearly the more boyz you have and the less models the enemy being charged has makes a big difference in being able to hide your nob, on top of how many extra inches you make on the charge. Assuming this is all correct in some ratio's / situations it does seem impossible to "always hide your nob" though. Realistically, you probably should be able to "most of the time" IF you didn't roll a huge charge / needed distance difference and / or have a lot of boyz to enemy models.

If you needed 8 inches and roll 9 for example, it would be much much easier to keep the nob unengaged as your front units wouldn't be able to surround the enemy in most cases and limit the amount of bodies needed to fulfill 1) and 2) and you can move on to 3). Then you just need a 1 boy barrier between the engaged b2b boyz and the nob because step 3 only says "move within 2" of a squad mate" So move the nob 2 inches away from that "barrier" boy and you're good to go. I think that would work but could be wrong.

Did you ignore this post?

wtwlf123 wrote:

OP wrote:26.) You can now throw tankbusta bombs. Throw, as in 8" AP4 assault 1.

I couldn't find this anywhere. Where is this listed?

Pg. 42 of Ork codex under Tankbusta Bombs:

"Tankbusta bombs are used just like krak grenades, except that they have an armor penetration of 2d6 + 6."

The FAQ doesn't change how Tankbusta Bombs work, so they still work like they do in the codex.

Pg. 62 of the BRB, under Krak Grenades -> Shooting:

"When a unit armed with krak grenades makes a shooting attack, one model can choose to throw a grenade, rather than using another shooting weapon."

EDIT: Dribble gives the simpler answer

AresX8 wrote:Did you ignore this post?

While they can move up to the distance rolled, they are still forced by the rules for moving assaulting models to move where possible into BtB or so they are engaged.

Kharrak wrote:Again, I can't see me dropping my Kanz. Their effectiveness, particularly with blast clipping in 6th, is too tempting.

Don't forget that with blast weapons (like the grotzooka), kills are taken from the front lines as in regular shooting attacks, not as "precision shots" hits you get with barrage weapons (like lobbas).

Ascalam wrote:I'm afraid that they now suck diseased donkey, most times.

You can't assault on the turn you come in, rendering Snikrot a tad useless.

The heavy weapons the squad carries 'might' do some damage, just like in 5th, but the squad is basically overpriced boyz in paper armour, who will die come the enemy shooting turn.

In 5th you could pretty much guarantee tying up/killing a devestator team or killing a vehicle with them when they dropped in, but in 6th they really aren't worth it.

Was just about to buy a unit of them, plus Snikrot. I'm glad I asked!

AresX8 wrote:

mondry wrote:

Beer4TheBeerGod wrote:

1) Move into base contact with a fresh enemy model.
2) Move into base contact with a previously engaged model.
3) Move within 2" of a squad mate.

This is what makes it possible to fail hiding your nob on the charge. In the previous post's example if you charge 9 inches with enemies 5 inches away, you HAVE to engage each enemy model in base to base, so if you have 20 boyz and they have 10 of whatever, 10 boyz will essentially surround them in b2b. Then step 2 says you have to move any more orks in range into contact with a previously engaged guy, so most of the orks are now engaged. Finally, step 3 your nob gets pulled within 2 inches of a mate and is now engaged.

Clearly the more boyz you have and the less models the enemy being charged has makes a big difference in being able to hide your nob, on top of how many extra inches you make on the charge. Assuming this is all correct in some ratio's / situations it does seem impossible to "always hide your nob" though. Realistically, you probably should be able to "most of the time" IF you didn't roll a huge charge / needed distance difference and / or have a lot of boyz to enemy models.

If you needed 8 inches and roll 9 for example, it would be much much easier to keep the nob unengaged as your front units wouldn't be able to surround the enemy in most cases and limit the amount of bodies needed to fulfill 1) and 2) and you can move on to 3). Then you just need a 1 boy barrier between the engaged b2b boyz and the nob because step 3 only says "move within 2" of a squad mate" So move the nob 2 inches away from that "barrier" boy and you're good to go. I think that would work but could be wrong.

Did you ignore this post?

You need to read THIS VV down HERE VV once more.

Dribble Joy wrote:

AresX8 wrote:Did you ignore this post?

While they can move up to the distance rolled, they are still forced by the rules for moving assaulting models to move where possible into BtB or so they are engaged.

So again, its possible to pull off, but no way is it every time like your making it out to be.

Dribble Joy wrote:Page 416.

Great. Thanks.

Tankbusta bombs are a form of grenades and if you check the weapon reference in the rulebook they have armourbane etc and are great. Another answer to land raiders. All tankbusta's are equipped with them standard.

Though only one member of a mob may throw a grenade per shooting phase, just make sure it's the guy without a rokkit.

Give the squad a tankhammer and let him throw it, or if your fielding a large squad of tankbusta's like 10 - 15, a Nob can throw it, seeing as he can't have a rokkit at all.

6th edition has definitely made me happier I made a mob of bustas

Orkaswampa wrote:Give the squad a tankhammer and let him throw it, or if your fielding a large squad of tankbusta's like 10 - 15, a Nob can throw it, seeing as he can't have a rokkit at all.

Um, where did you ge the idea that the Tankbusta nob doesn't have a rokkit launcha?

Pg 99 Ork Dex - 'He may replace his rokkit launcha with - a power Klaw'

May, not must


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The Nob is on the Pics page on pg 74, under Tankbustas.

He's the one with the rokkit launcha and greatcoat.

KingCracker wrote:6th edition has definitely made me happier I made a mob of bustas

Me too. I can take one less Bomb Squig now that one of the dudes can throw a tankbusta bomb instead of shooting a rokkit/releasing a Squig.

And ya, the Tankbusta Nob has a Rokkit unless you replace it with a PK.

Edit:

Also, do you think they're gonna errata Fighta Ace so that it gives the BS bonus against fliers? It appears that the original intent of the rule was to have them work against them, but because they were all erratad to no longer be skimmers, this doesn't work anymore...

And another:

Now than MaNz S&P prevents moving flat out, and that extends to the unit, if they're in a Trukk, does that prevent the Trukk from moving flat out too?

The Trukk is a seperate unit, so no.

Good. Thanks.

wtwlf123 wrote:

KingCracker wrote:6th edition has definitely made me happier I made a mob of bustas

Me too. I can take one less Bomb Squig now that one of the dudes can throw a tankbusta bomb instead of shooting a rokkit/releasing a Squig.

And ya, the Tankbusta Nob has a Rokkit unless you replace it with a PK.

Edit:

Also, do you think they're gonna errata Fighta Ace so that it gives the BS bonus against fliers? It appears that the original intent of the rule was to have them work against them, but because they were all erratad to no longer be skimmers, this doesn't work anymore...

And another:

Now than MaNz S&P prevents moving flat out, and that extends to the unit, if they're in a Trukk, does that prevent the Trukk from moving flat out too?

If players arnt letting you use FIghta Ace against other fliers, they are being a dick. Because thats what the rule is meant for. But yes, something that big of a fudge up, they HAVE to FAQ it eventually. Or we wait for our new codex

wtwlf123 wrote:Also, do you think they're gonna errata Fighta Ace so that it gives the BS bonus against fliers? It appears that the original intent of the rule was to have them work against them, but because they were all erratad to no longer be skimmers, this doesn't work anymore...

The ibook version has updated the Fighta Ace rules to include fliers apparently.

I wish I could get an iBook version without an iPad.

Ok, please help. For the last 2 games against Blood Angels I have been struggling against ~15 Death Company+ Chaplain+Land raider.

The only way I can deal with a land raider is to assaulting it, but whomever assaults the landraider is going to die the next turn.

Any ideas?

Don't assault it? Or try to pop it early on and just shoot them to bits. Also, what are you running?

I run nob Bikerz Shoota Boyz, lootaz, and Kannons. And you can't just wait for this unit to come out. They will kill whatever unit they hit when they assault.

And you can't shoot them until they get out of the land raider.

Biker Nobz should thrash Death Company.

Then don't let them assault you. Pit all your kannons against them, until the landraider dies.Then shoot them to death.

Right now I only have 3 Kannons, but even if I ran 9 Kannons I would only average .75 Hull points per turn. And against a land raider you have 2 turns of shooting at most before it's in assault range.

Death company in a land raider have the same threat assault range as a Nob Biker squad, and at range the land raider is going to win any match up against Nob Bikerz.

I could always use my Bikerz as a deterant and just keep taking shots, until my Kannons can crack open the Land Raider. The problem with this is I'm going to be taking a lot of fire, losing bikers until the land raider goes.

mrfantastical wrote:Right now I only have 3 Kannons, but even if I ran 9 Kannons I would only average .75 Hull points per turn. And against a land raider you have 2 turns of shooting at most before it's in assault range.

Death company in a land raider have the same threat assault range as a Nob Biker squad, and at range the land raider is going to win any match up against Nob Bikerz.

I could always use my Bikerz as a deterant and just keep taking shots, until my Kannons can crack open the Land Raider. The problem with this is I'm going to be taking a lot of fire, losing bikers until the land raider goes.

You should have the other Kannons tomorrow..

touch the raider with a warboss. 3+ to hit then 5 to pen is decent odds.

once the DC come out, shoot them with the lootas/tankbustas/etc.

Just a heads up Burna Wagons are so awesome! Played Nids the other day, lost the game but was looking like i was gonng get tabled turn 3 until my burna wagon came out to play. My own warphead blew one of my battlewagons killing half the boys inside lol what are the chances, passes his test and rolls two ones then a 6 on the pen table lol, not sure im gonng use him again. So i deff rolled over a squad of termis, the remaining squad attenpted to charge it, lol wall of fire is unbelievable! he then charged with his carnifex and that got barbied. I loved my boomgun, it was very succesful even though i was using a small template instead of a large lol whoops.

In regards to Nids I don't think I can leave home without my Nob with PK. He has the chance of killing a Carni or Hive in one round of combat and thats just something I cannot let go of. The idea of the big shootas on nobs are good but Id rather have PK over the chance of allocating maybe 1 or 2 big shoota hits.

So far I am 1 win (against Tau) and 1 Loss (against Nids) but I made some big mistakes and had some bad luck. It is looking great for Orks in this edition!

ATO

mrfantastical wrote:Right now I only have 3 Kannons, but even if I ran 9 Kannons I would only average .75 Hull points per turn. And against a land raider you have 2 turns of shooting at most before it's in assault range.

Death company in a land raider have the same threat assault range as a Nob Biker squad, and at range the land raider is going to win any match up against Nob Bikerz.

I could always use my Bikerz as a deterant and just keep taking shots, until my Kannons can crack open the Land Raider. The problem with this is I'm going to be taking a lot of fire, losing bikers until the land raider goes.

Maybe open up a new thread calling for help against blood angels? Those threads tend to also attract both ork and BA players, which allows you to listen to both sides. And if you do, post a list of your collection. There no point in suggesting battlewagons to you, if you don't have any

mrfantastical wrote:but whomever assaults the landraider is going to die the next turn.

Does that matter? Orks excel at the disposable unit better than anyone other than IG.

Is it his only vehicle? Then stuff a small unit of tank bustas into it. It's their job after all.

Meganobs? They should be able to stand up to a charge from the death company and you can always stick any PF hits on a WB.

If else, bait them or ignore them. Let them charge something, then have at them once they're in the open. Or simply let them run around while you deal with the rest of his force. They aren't scoring anyway. Try a refused flank, in a recent game I used it to keep a unit of 'stealers out of combat until turn five.

Jidmah wrote:
Maybe open up a new thread calling for help against blood angels? Those threads tend to also attract both ork and BA players, which allows you to listen to both sides. And if you do, post a list of your collection. There no point in suggesting battlewagons to you, if you don't have any

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/469571.page#4646987

Here you go.

Alltheones wrote:Just a heads up Burna Wagons are so awesome! Played Nids the other day, lost the game but was looking like i was gonng get tabled turn 3 until my burna wagon came out to play. My own warphead blew one of my battlewagons killing half the boys inside lol what are the chances, passes his test and rolls two ones then a 6 on the pen table lol, not sure im gonng use him again. So i deff rolled over a squad of termis, the remaining squad attenpted to charge it, lol wall of fire is unbelievable! he then charged with his carnifex and that got barbied. I loved my boomgun, it was very succesful even though i was using a small template instead of a large lol whoops.

In regards to Nids I don't think I can leave home without my Nob with PK. He has the chance of killing a Carni or Hive in one round of combat and thats just something I cannot let go of. The idea of the big shootas on nobs are good but Id rather have PK over the chance of allocating maybe 1 or 2 big shoota hits.

So far I am 1 win (against Tau) and 1 Loss (against Nids) but I made some big mistakes and had some bad luck. It is looking great for Orks in this edition!

ATO

You know your Nob can have both a Bigshoota and a PK yes?

Also, what about the Lifta-wagon?

In 6th Ed. it's horrific. On a 4+ you either do D3 penetrating hits, or D6 glancing hits. The latter will kill any vehicle in the game on a 4+. Plus there's the chance of dropping it on something else.

Well thats APOC, and Im guessing Im misunderstanding you, you mean the Lifta Dropa is really bad ass yes? Because a 4+ auto vehicle kill sounds pretty good to me

No, IA:8/IA Apoc. 2nd Ed. It's a heavy support option.

Basically, you pick a target (vehicle only). On a 4+ the beam hits. Roll a scatter dice, on a hit you do D3 penetrating hits and the vehicle doesn't move. If you roll an arrow, the vehicle is moved 4D6" and turned to face the direction of the arrow. It then takes D6 glancing hits. If it lands on anything, then they take D6 glancing hits if a vehicle or 2D6 wounds if not.

Knowing Forgeworld, the rules will proably get changed/updated for 6th at some point, because that seems a tad bit overpowered.

Dribble Joy wrote:Also, what about the Lifta-wagon?

In 6th Ed. it's horrific. On a 4+ you either do D3 penetrating hits, or D6 glancing hits. The latter will kill any vehicle in the game on a 4+. Plus there's the chance of dropping it on something else.

2 problems I see:

1) it's forgeworld, which can make some opponents not allow it
2) technically I think you can only field in Dread Mob list, not Codex: Orks.

My buddy (and the person I play the most) is a blood angel player and runs death company, though not in a land raider. Anything that gets charged by them is dead, they get 5 attacks on the charge and with the chaplain can reroll failed hits and wounds I believe, that means if he has 15 of them you're talkin 75 attacks where he's probably gonna have like 45+ wounds. That means even meganobz will mathematically fail 7ish saves.

As for disposable units that's going to be tough, anything really capable of popping the LR in melee is probably going to be expensive. Are you playing 1500 points? It seems like 15 dc in a landraider would be like what, 700+ points? So if you used say 6 ManZ in a trukk to pop it, even if they get charged and die the DC are now exposed and you can focus fire them down. The other option might be to sacrifice a warboss. Let's say you can take some hull points with the kannons, and you have a nice squad of nob bikers, send the warboss with them, have him detach from the bikers and assault the LR when the time comes, boss pops it, he gets taken out for sure, but then your nob bikers assault the DC and that's a win. When DC get charged they lose 2 attacks and can't reroll hits or wounds!

Just theorycraft but may be worth a try. Without knowing your full list or your opponents list it's hard to say.

The only problem I have with sending a suicide warboss is that he's going to have to start around 22" inches away from a land raider. Because anything less then that, he get's charged by Deathcompany, or just shot to death by the land raider.

Even at 22" inches away, he has to make a 10" charge. I've tried that 2 times with a Waaagh even and failed both times.

Doubtful that he'd get shot to death, as he's immune to the ID of the Multimelta, T6 so requiring 6s to wound from any non-heavy Bolter variants, and the Flamey cannons don't have that great a range. Even with Lascannons, the most he can be targeted by by a single LR is 3, and he has 4 Wounds and is immune to the ID from them (plus the 4+ cover save that would further reduce any of those.)

And if the Death Company comes charging out for the Warboss, then, well, he's done his job and gotten them out of their transport.

When in doubt:

Shoot the assualty things, and assualt the shooty things.

mrfantastical wrote:The only problem I have with sending a suicide warboss is that he's going to have to start around 22" inches away from a land raider. Because anything less then that, he get's charged by Deathcompany, or just shot to death by the land raider.

Even at 22" inches away, he has to make a 10" charge. I've tried that 2 times with a Waaagh even and failed both times.

hmm, yeah. Although if he's disembarking from the land raider to kill your warboss that still sort of accomplishes what you want, then nob bikers (or whatever) counter assault the DC on your turn, granted the land raider is still going strong. Eventually you should be able to take care of it as long as the DC get neutralized.

Has anybody tried a Trukk rush since 6th came out?

Dr. What wrote:Has anybody tried a Trukk rush since 6th came out?

I think the general consensus is that it'snot the Trukk that got worse, it's mobs of 12 boyz.
That said, I haven't seen anyone talking about doing it, so who knows?

I have, but it was in a 3v2 game where my two allies provided plenty of other options to be shot at. The trukks themselves are still speedy enough to get where you want to go. As said earlier, though, twelve boyz just ain't what they used to be. Whenever I charged a target, it was working in tandem with a second trukk mob. 24 Orks and two PK nobz ate up a single squad of BA assault marines without a problem. Taken individually, not sure if they'd have done so hot. I dont know how many points that particular unit costs, but something tells me its not much more and maybe even less then two full trukks. I'd have to play a game unassisted with a dedicated trukk list to say for certain.

Well, on average, 2 Orks die to SM overwatch (assuming flamer and missile launcher are in the group of 10).

So 9 Boyz + 1 Nob with Power Klaw

36 Attacks from the Boyz, 3 from the Nob.

18 hits from the Boyz, 1.5 from the Nob.

9 wounds from the Boyz, 1 from the Nob.

3 wounds unsaved from the Boyz, 1 from the Nob.

That's 4 wounds against a 10 man marine squad.


Now, do Overwatch wounds count towards combat resolution (who scored more for a sweep)?

The Marines:

11 attacks (sarge has a pistol).

5.5 hits.

2.75 wounds.

2.292 unsaved wounds.

Dr. What wrote:Has anybody tried a Trukk rush since 6th came out?

Only in smaller point levels. They seem to still be working okay there. But in bigger games, I'd be too afraid that my 12 Ork squads just can't deal with enough stuff, and I need to start loading them in 'Wagons.

Overwatch wounds don't count towards combat res since they don't occur in the Fight subphase. Only wounds caused in the Fight subphase count towards combat res (barring any exceptions where it says otherwise of course) pg. 26, under Determining Assault Results, 2nd paragraph.

wtwlf123 wrote:

Dr. What wrote:Has anybody tried a Trukk rush since 6th came out?

Only in smaller point levels. They seem to still be working okay there. But in bigger games, I'd be too afraid that my 12 Ork squads just can't deal with enough stuff, and I need to start loading them in 'Wagons.

Well, I play at 1500 pts, which is pretty mid field...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AresX8 wrote:Overwatch wounds don't count towards combat res since they don't occur in the Fight subphase. Only wounds caused in the Fight subphase count towards combat res (barring any exceptions where it says otherwise of course) pg. 26, under Determining Assault Results, 2nd paragraph.

Thanks! (I loaned my rulebook to my friend who can't get one right now)

Do you get overwatch against a truck that's suffered a kareen result. ?

Pros:
1.) Hull points makes open topped vehicles and maxed squads of Kans and Buggies more durable to glances. Also, make Deff Dreads quite alluring now.

Anyone verified this? I love my dreads but since i have yet to play a 6th game was wondering if they are still good with 4 dccw. i am thinking of a list that looks something like

2x Big Mek

2x 20 shoota boys w nob Pclaw and bpole

2x troop dread 4 dccw each

3x Dread 4 dccw each

15 lootas

not exactly sure on the points cost. dont have access to codex atm just brainstorming. but its somewhere in the 1250- 1500 range

any ideas?

Dr. What wrote:Well, on average, 2 Orks die to SM overwatch (assuming flamer and missile launcher are in the group of 10).

So 9 Boyz + 1 Nob with Power Klaw

36 Attacks from the Boyz, 3 from the Nob.

18 hits from the Boyz, 1.5 from the Nob.

9 wounds from the Boyz, 1 from the Nob.

3 wounds unsaved from the Boyz, 1 from the Nob.

That's 4 wounds against a 10 man marine squad.


Now, do Overwatch wounds count towards combat resolution (who scored more for a sweep)?

The Marines:

11 attacks (sarge has a pistol).

5.5 hits.

2.75 wounds.

2.292 unsaved wounds.

The marines strike before the orks, so you lose 8 attacks from the total, which is big. The sarge will probably challenge the nob as well.

If you were going to run trukks, you'd probably want to run shoota boyz.

Here's a quick comparison against some space marines (does not take into account wounds dealt to orks, or saves):

11 slugga boyz w/ nob + PK:
3 hits from sluggas, 1.5 wounds
44 regular attacks, 4 PK attacks
11 wounds, + ~1.5 PK wounds
Total wounds: 12.5 wounds


11 shoota boyz w/ nob + PK
7.6 hits from shooting, 3.3 wounds
33 regular attacks, 4 pk attacks
8.25 wounds, + ~1.5 PK wounds
Total wounds: 12.75 wounds


Granted, this is in a vacuum, and doesn't regard saves or orks killed by space marines (plus my math might be off.)

These total up to 152 pts for a Trukk w/ RPJ + 11 boyz + Nob w/ PK + BP. This equates to about .08 wounds per points for sluggas, and .08 wounds per point for shootas. They are pretty much equal, but shoota's get more shots before the assualt even starts. Now, a battlewagon + deffrolla + RPJ w/ Sluggas + Nob w/ PK + BP is 275 pts. A battlewagon unit dishes out something like 27 wounds including the deffrolla, which equates to .10 wounds per point. They are roughly the same wounds per point, but remember, that a battlewagon also has the deffrolla and AV 14. So it can also kill vehicles as well as last longer than the trukk. Though that is lots of math hammer, and doesn't necessarily mean that trukks are equal to battlewagons, just that they can deal a fair amount of damage if used properly. Personally, I'd say go for battlewagons as they have more uses than just rushing boyz to the front line and exploding.

Dribble Joy wrote:No, IA:8/IA Apoc. 2nd Ed. It's a heavy support option.

Basically, you pick a target (vehicle only). On a 4+ the beam hits. Roll a scatter dice, on a hit you do D3 penetrating hits and the vehicle doesn't move. If you roll an arrow, the vehicle is moved 4D6" and turned to face the direction of the arrow. It then takes D6 glancing hits. If it lands on anything, then they take D6 glancing hits if a vehicle or 2D6 wounds if not.

As I mentioned it earlier on the topic, there is an official Apocalypse Rulebook issued by Games Workshop (not Forgeworld) in which you can find rules for the Big Mek Stompa. This kind of Stompa is equipped with a Lifta Droppa. You do get D6 glancing hits, which means Hull Points in 6th edition. Plus if the vehicle scatters, you can chose any place within the 24" to drop it onto another vehicle (+D6 glancing hits), or impassable terrain to destroy it. Sounds pretty amazing and a tad overpowered - primary Titan weapons ALL are overpowered though.

Anyway that's the way Orks rule in larger games. Best way to run it IMO: use a unit of 5 Burnaboyz including 3 Meks + one KFF Big Mek with 3 grot oilers. This 825-point behemoth won't be taken down easily at all...

loota boy wrote:

Spoiler:

Dr. What wrote:Well, on average, 2 Orks die to SM overwatch (assuming flamer and missile launcher are in the group of 10).

So 9 Boyz + 1 Nob with Power Klaw

36 Attacks from the Boyz, 3 from the Nob.

18 hits from the Boyz, 1.5 from the Nob.

9 wounds from the Boyz, 1 from the Nob.

3 wounds unsaved from the Boyz, 1 from the Nob.

That's 4 wounds against a 10 man marine squad.


Now, do Overwatch wounds count towards combat resolution (who scored more for a sweep)?

The Marines:

11 attacks (sarge has a pistol).

5.5 hits.

2.75 wounds.

2.292 unsaved wounds.

The marines strike before the orks, so you lose 8 attacks from the total, which is big. The sarge will probably challenge the nob as well.

True, though I really should do my math against Tau fire warriors, as the only guy currently around here that's playing is my Tau friend.

And to virx67:

I'm going to quote MiniWargaming.com's Dan "You probably don't want Shootas in your Trukks, as Shootas are meant for shooting, and Sluggas are meant for slugging. Put Sluggas in your Trukks, because Sluggas and Trukks are meant to get up in your face!"


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here's what I plan on running:


Big Mek - Kustom Force Field, 'Eavy Armor, Cybork Body, Bosspole, Burna

Warphead

Boyz X11 (Big Mek goes here)
Trukk - Reinforced Ram

Boyz X11 - Nob with Power Klaw and Bosspole (Included in Total)(Warphead Goes Here)
Trukk - Reinforced Ram

Boyz X12 - Nob with Power Klaw and Bosspole (Included in Total)
Trukk - Reinforced Ram

Boyz X12 - Nob with Power Klaw and Bosspole (Included in Total)
Trukk - Reinforced Ram

Boyz X12 - Nob with Power Klaw and Bosspole (Included in Total)
Trukk - Reinforced Ram

Dakkajet - Extra Supa Shoota, Fighta Ace

Warbuggies X2 - Twin-Linked Rokkit Launchas

Warbuggies X2 - Twin-Linked Rokkit Launchas

Battlewagon - Deff Rolla, Kannon, 3 Big Shootas, 'Ard Case, Grot Riggers

Battlewagon - Deff Rolla, Kannon, 3 Big Shootas, 'Ard Case, Grot Riggers

What kind of power weapon are unfired burnaz in 6th ed?

wtwlf123 wrote:What kind of power weapon are unfired burnaz in 6th ed?

Ap3, as they're "unique"

That's what I figured. I was hoping to be able to use them as Power Axes, but no dice. Cheers.

Bonde wrote:Knowing Forgeworld, the rules will proably get changed/updated for 6th at some point, because that seems a tad bit overpowered.

Oh, it already received a massive nerf in Imperial Armor: Apocalypse Second Eiditon. It's nowhere near as powerful as the IA:8 variant was. It used to auto-hit and now has a mishap table when you roll a one on your to-hit roll, with every result being bad for you (explosion, the opponent picking the target, lifta-droppa throwing itself, penetrating hit on self and radiating everyone nearby with S2 AP3, or glancing self). The new rules only inflict d3 penetrating hits on a rolled 'hit' (used to be d6 glances). If the tossed vehicle is heavy or tank, it will inflict d6 glances on a vehicle it is dropped on, d3 otherwise (used to be d6 always). Cover can be taken against those hits, which was not possible before.

They still can do the silly overload-alpha strike in apoc, but that's just apocalypse.

Bonzofever wrote:

Dribble Joy wrote:No, IA:8/IA Apoc. 2nd Ed. It's a heavy support option.

Basically, you pick a target (vehicle only). On a 4+ the beam hits. Roll a scatter dice, on a hit you do D3 penetrating hits and the vehicle doesn't move. If you roll an arrow, the vehicle is moved 4D6" and turned to face the direction of the arrow. It then takes D6 glancing hits. If it lands on anything, then they take D6 glancing hits if a vehicle or 2D6 wounds if not.

As I mentioned it earlier on the topic, there is an official Apocalypse Rulebook issued by Games Workshop (not Forgeworld) in which you can find rules for the Big Mek Stompa. This kind of Stompa is equipped with a Lifta Droppa. You do get D6 glancing hits, which means Hull Points in 6th edition. Plus if the vehicle scatters, you can chose any place within the 24" to drop it onto another vehicle (+D6 glancing hits), or impassable terrain to destroy it. Sounds pretty amazing and a tad overpowered - primary Titan weapons ALL are overpowered though.

Anyway that's the way Orks rule in larger games. Best way to run it IMO: use a unit of 5 Burnaboyz including 3 Meks + one KFF Big Mek with 3 grot oilers. This 825-point behemoth won't be taken down easily at all...

The most recent rules for lifta-droppers are found in Imperial Armour: Apocalypse Second Edition. No matter what your book says, you have to use those. Forgeworld books are just as official for apocalypse as GW books, in fact, they are more official than the GW ones.

By the way: Neither IA:8 nor IA:ASE allow lifta-droppers to be taken in regular Codex: Ork armies.

Thanks Jidmah for covering that up.

As far as I'm concerned, I'll stick with the GW official Codex for two reasons :
1/ I find it difficult to buy an official GW rulebook, a product that becomes obsolete because of FW updates (even 5 years after).
As a matter of fact I don't think my local GW store would ever ask somebody to check FW updates. They sell GW products.
2/ The weapon is overpowered in Final Liberation, too.

Thats pretty much how ForgeWorld rules work. Its either WAY to pricey to be worth it, or its overpowered. Take your pick

Bonzofever wrote:Thanks Jidmah for covering that up.

As far as I'm concerned, I'll stick with the GW official Codex for two reasons :
1/ I find it difficult to buy an official GW rulebook, a product that becomes obsolete because of FW updates (even 5 years after).
As a matter of fact I don't think my local GW store would ever ask somebody to check FW updates. They sell GW products.
2/ The weapon is overpowered in Final Liberation, too.

Forgeworld is a part of GW. I'm pretty sure that an official GW store would order forgeworld models and books for you, I know my stores do. In addition, almost all apocalypse rules are printed and maintained by forgeworld. Unless you resort to forgeworld rules, you cannot play apocalypse using 6th edition - for example you would have no idea how super-heavy vehicles interact with glancing hits. You could say that apocalypse is made by forgeworld, at the very least the models are. The book and the two super-heavy kits come from a time where they still muddied the water between the two companies(many of the current IG models used to be forgeworld only), I don't think that GW will publish any more Apoc books.
Note that all apocalypse 6th edition rule upgrades are available from the forgeworld homepage free of charge (if you can find their download section... try google if you can't find it).

TL;DR: Forgeworld books are the official books when playing apocalypse. GW just decided to print one, too. It will most likely never happen again.

Actually Jidmah the lifta droppa is meant for normal 40k games, but also has unique apocalypse benefits. This is shown by the Warhammer 40,000 stamp on the picture of the model in the book, just after it's rules, as with every other entry in the book it's stamp dictates its purpose.

Furthermore Forge World have released apocalypse FAQ's to deal with problems playing it, for example each Structure Point is worth 3 Hull Points, meaning a Stompa has 12 Hull points, and a Baneblade has 9.

The Forge World downloads section is a tiny link in the right half of the homepage, around the middle.

Orkaswampa wrote:Actually Jidmah the lifta droppa is meant for normal 40k games, but also has unique apocalypse benefits. This is shown by the Warhammer 40,000 stamp on the picture of the model in the book, just after it's rules, as with every other entry in the book it's stamp dictates its purpose.

Correct. But only if you are fielding a Dread Mob army from IA:8. There is no way to field a lifta-droppa for Codex: Orks, as you have no way of knowing in what FOC it goes in, except educated guesses.

Furthermore Forge World have released apocalypse FAQ's to deal with problems playing it, for example each Structure Point is worth 3 Hull Points, meaning a Stompa has 12 Hull points, and a Baneblade has 9.

Those are still ForgeWorld rules. The person I responded to claims that the GW made books are the only official rules for apoc.

Jidmah wrote:

By the way: Neither IA:8 nor IA:ASE allow lifta-droppers to be taken in regular Codex: Ork armies.

I believe the only things in IA:8 that are allowed in Codex: Orks are:

*Grot Tanks
*Mekboy junka
*Kustom-mega Dredd
*Big Trakk
*Gun Trukk
*Gun Wagon
*all Ork special characters
*Gargantuan Squigoth (option from Death Skullz Warboss Skalk Bluetoof)

Jidmah wrote:Forgeworld is a part of GW. I'm pretty sure that an official GW store would order forgeworld models and books for you, I know my stores do.

Well I know that bit But I'm telling you, FW models can't be found in French GW stores, except on Games Day, or perhaps in a couple of larger stores. You may order FW kits online from the store, but it really doesn't mean they'll accept it in a tournament. That's a fact!

Jidmah wrote:In addition, almost all apocalypse rules are printed and maintained by forgeworld. Unless you resort to forgeworld rules, you cannot play apocalypse using 6th edition.
[...] TL;DR: Forgeworld books are the official books when playing apocalypse. GW just decided to print one, too. It will most likely never happen again.

Yeah. Anyhow, when I ask about Apocalypse games, the official GW staff use the official GW rulebook. That's another fact.
As long as the new Ork Dex (Fall 2013?) yet has to be released, I think they'll stick to the GW Apocalypse book.
I don't know how they deal with Structure Points, I guess they *do* look for the FW update, and then cook homemade rules.

All in all I agree with you. From a GW seller's point of view, though: how can you sell a Stompa if you don't have the rules in a book next to it?
I believe this is why they never refer to FW and always elude the topic. At least, at my local store.

Edit: Forgot to mention the "not-written-in-French" part. Which makes it easier to understand...

Bonzofever wrote:

Jidmah wrote:Forgeworld is a part of GW. I'm pretty sure that an official GW store would order forgeworld models and books for you, I know my stores do.

Well I know that bit But I'm telling you, FW models can't be found in French GW stores, except on Games Day, or perhaps in a couple of larger stores. You may order FW kits online from the store, but it really doesn't mean they'll accept it in a tournament. That's a fact!

Jidmah wrote:In addition, almost all apocalypse rules are printed and maintained by forgeworld. Unless you resort to forgeworld rules, you cannot play apocalypse using 6th edition.
[...] TL;DR: Forgeworld books are the official books when playing apocalypse. GW just decided to print one, too. It will most likely never happen again.

Yeah. Anyhow, when I ask about Apocalypse games, the official GW staff use the official GW rulebook. That's another fact.
As long as the new Ork Dex (Fall 2013?) yet has to be released, I think they'll stick to the GW Apocalypse book.
I don't know how they deal with Structure Points, I guess they *do* look for the FW update, and then cook homemade rules.

All in all I agree with you. From a GW seller's point of view, though: how can you sell a Stompa if you don't have the rules in a book next to it?
I believe this is why they never refer to FW and always elude the topic. At least, at my local store.

Structure points have actually been updated to Hull points if you read the FW rules update everything is there. Still structure points are only used in apocalypse games and not necessary for 40k stamped FW models. Strangely enough GW HQ does not accept FW models and rules on most of it's tournaments.

keltikhoa wrote:

Pros:
1.) Hull points makes open topped vehicles and maxed squads of Kans and Buggies more durable to glances. Also, make Deff Dreads quite alluring now.

Anyone verified this? I love my dreads but since i have yet to play a 6th game was wondering if they are still good with 4 dccw. i am thinking of a list that looks something like

2x Big Mek

2x 20 shoota boys w nob Pclaw and bpole

2x troop dread 4 dccw each

3x Dread 4 dccw each

15 lootas

not exactly sure on the points cost. dont have access to codex atm just brainstorming. but its somewhere in the 1250- 1500 range

any ideas?

I can verify that Kans and Dreds make it across the field with about the same survivability as when they were covered by the 5th Ed. KFF. Between hull points and the 6th Ed. KFF it seems to even out.

But that's only verifying that tactic. After that, all bets are off because walkers quite a bit less effective in CC now. The big deal breakers are grenades landing at WS now, and the "We can't hurt it" rule makes tying up units impossible. I actually really like "We can't hurt it", but marines spamming grenades at WS is really tough on Dreds.

They can still work, but in my opinion, they just don't feel as awesome anymore.

Regarding Trukk mobs. Anyone think that mobz of 12 boyz is really just riding too close to the "not fearless" edge?

I assumed a Lifta Wagon would be a heavy support choice as it is still a battlewagon at the end of the day, and it is one of few in the whole book that don't have it stated, like grot tanks are elites if you have a big mek for example, i rest my case

matphat wrote:
I can verify that Kans and Dreds make it across the field with about the same survivability as when they were covered by the 5th Ed. KFF. Between hull points and the 6th Ed. KFF it seems to even out.

But that's only verifying that tactic. After that, all bets are off because walkers quite a bit less effective in CC now. The big deal breakers are grenades landing at WS now, and the "We can't hurt it" rule makes tying up units impossible. I actually really like "We can't hurt it", but marines spamming grenades at WS is really tough on Dreds.

They can still work, but in my opinion, they just don't feel as awesome anymore.

Regarding Trukk mobs. Anyone think that mobz of 12 boyz is really just riding too close to the "not fearless" edge?

Thanks for the info... I posted the list in army list forum as well after building its to points cost.
1250 pts

2x bigmek BP, eavy armour, cybork, burna, KFF
2x Troop deffdread 4 dccw
3x deffdread 4ccw
2x 20 shoota boyz, nob bp pk 2xBS each squad
1x 9 lootaz

while not as awesome as before, 5 dreads at 1250 would still be intimidating and take a good bit to get rid of.

keltikhoa wrote:
Thanks for the info... I posted the list in army list forum as well after building its to points cost.
1250 pts

2x bigmek BP, eavy armour, cybork, burna, KFF
2x Troop deffdread 4 dccw
3x deffdread 4ccw
2x 20 shoota boyz, nob bp pk 2xBS each squad
1x 9 lootaz

while not as awesome as before, 5 dreads at 1250 would still be intimidating and take a good bit to get rid of.

Keep in mind that the KFF bubble only obscures the vehicles in it's range. This is a big change for squads of Kans. It wont affect the list you posted, but I thought it worth bringing up.

matphat wrote:
Keep in mind that the KFF bubble only obscures the vehicles in it's range. This is a big change for squads of Kans. It wont affect the list you posted, but I thought it worth bringing up.

all tips are welcome thanks

Alternatively I can drop the 3 HS deffdreads for:

2x Dakkajet extra supa shoota, RPJ, fighter ace
and take 3 more lootas, Likely split the now 12 total into
2x 6 loota squads

Someone else suggested that the jets were great for drawing fire away from approaching army while throwing down a literal ton of lead.
Just gotta get the models for the dakkajet

Also... "Our weapons are useless" says if a unit is locked in combat with a unit it cannot hurt. AND grenades are only 1 per turn per unit. Can the unit run away if the only means to hurt my deffdread is krak grenades? As a krak grenade has a chance to on a 6 to glance. alternatively can the unit run if only one model from the unit has the ability to hurt it?

I'd much rather take the fire support than 3 Deff Dreads since the likelihood of them getting into combat is lower than in 5th with pre-measuring and random charge length.

Bonzofever wrote:

Jidmah wrote:Forgeworld is a part of GW. I'm pretty sure that an official GW store would order forgeworld models and books for you, I know my stores do.

Well I know that bit But I'm telling you, FW models can't be found in French GW stores, except on Games Day, or perhaps in a couple of larger stores. You may order FW kits online from the store, but it really doesn't mean they'll accept it in a tournament. That's a fact!

Jidmah wrote:In addition, almost all apocalypse rules are printed and maintained by forgeworld. Unless you resort to forgeworld rules, you cannot play apocalypse using 6th edition.
[...] TL;DR: Forgeworld books are the official books when playing apocalypse. GW just decided to print one, too. It will most likely never happen again.

Yeah. Anyhow, when I ask about Apocalypse games, the official GW staff use the official GW rulebook. That's another fact.
As long as the new Ork Dex (Fall 2013?) yet has to be released, I think they'll stick to the GW Apocalypse book.
I don't know how they deal with Structure Points, I guess they *do* look for the FW update, and then cook homemade rules.

All in all I agree with you. From a GW seller's point of view, though: how can you sell a Stompa if you don't have the rules in a book next to it?
I believe this is why they never refer to FW and always elude the topic. At least, at my local store.

Edit: Forgot to mention the "not-written-in-French" part. Which makes it easier to understand...

Keep in mind that the people at your store are just random guys wearing GW T-shirts, making random decisions. There is no such thing as an official word from GW telling them to do what you describe, and employees aren't required to know anything about rules, so some simply don't. More likely, they had the book they have provided by GW as part of their store supply (like painting tables or similar stuff) and can't be bothered to get the new books. It is similar here, they don't stock the Imperial Armor books, but at least the people organizing apoc games are aware of their existence and enforce those rules, even if they are present as a pirated copy in form of a laptop or iPad. I know one store even has a bunch of IA books which were donated by a player quitting the game.

Oh, and there aren't any German Imperial Armours either

I actually went to a tourney where Imperial Armour Apoc. 2nd Ed. was allowed.

I took two Lifta Wagons, they didn't seem to mind (this was in 5th, though it still wrecked face).

Obviously that's a random tourney at a GW battle bunker and in no way endorsed, but the stuff with '40K Approved' in said book seems to be more accepted by people.

All the other Ork units have a stated FoC slot, people were quite happy to assume it was an oversight on FW's part (as that does happen a lot) and go with it being heavy support.

I imagine it and the other stuff will be updated soon, aside from IA: Aeronautica, there aren't general rules for flakkaguns (by the way, flakk trukks are awesome, dirt cheap and have Interceptor).

Yes I think Flakka Trakks are awesome. I believe they are to be added to the upcoming Ork Dex in 2013: there is a list of upcoming GW releases on the web that makes me think we might have some "ex-Apocalypse" units added to a standard 40K codex. In addition, as the Stompa is a GW kit I expect to find its rules in a GW rulebook for 6th edition. I do hope so, tbh

I can see that happening as well. I mean we have fliers in 6th, which previously were only seen in IA or APOC. And the Trygon was an APOC only before wasnt it?

@keltikhoa: The "1 per unit" is only on thrown grenades. In close combat, they all may use them.

keltikhoa wrote:
Also... "Our weapons are useless" says if a unit is locked in combat with a unit it cannot hurt. AND grenades are only 1 per turn per unit. Can the unit run away if the only means to hurt my deffdread is krak grenades? As a krak grenade has a chance to on a 6 to glance. alternatively can the unit run if only one model from the unit has the ability to hurt it?

Units can now hit you with a grenade per model. This GREATLY increases the likelihood you'll get glanced to death in a single round. It's not the average, but it's very possible.

I wonder if there's any chance of them using the FAQ to state that only one model can plant a grenade on a vehicle in Assault. Probably not. That change combined with Hull Points just marginalizes walkers across the board to the point where I don't see many armies taking them at all anymore. GW will probably just make us deal with it, and give some special rule to Dreadnaughts in future codexes to protect them from Krak grenades and Melta Bombs or something.

I've been seriously thinking about introducing some Mega Dreads into my Ork list to see if I can breathe new life into Ork Walkers, but of course the price of admission is pretty high there.

I've always thought that the Stompa would be a good addition to the standard Ork Codex. Tweak the rules a little bit to remove Apocalypse weapons, and follow normal Walker rules with a lot of Hull Points, and it'd be pretty viable without being overpowered. Even if you gave it 6 Hull points, a Stompa is still comparable in power with a Landraider as long as it doesn't have Apocalypse weapons on it.

The nerf to the Lifta-Droppa was sad. I don't know why the Orks can't have powerful weapons like every other codex out there does. When the flier supplement came out I was just shaking my head that we didn't get a single weapon that didn't closely duplicate something we already had. Yeah, I know we deal mostly with volume of fire, and that's all well-and-good but sometimes we need punching power. All our weapons are mid-strength and mid-AP. Even our powerful guns like the KillKannon is only S7 AP3, and its larger cousin the Boomgun is S8 AP3. Both guns are crazy expensive compared to what other codexes can field for the same price. Yeah, I'm just bitching now, so I'll stop.

All of the weapons on the Dakkajet are mounted in fixed positions. I assume they can only fire at targets that are directly in front of them after they move?

I thought I heard something about the supa shootas being able to target units it passed over that turn, but I can't seem to find those rules anywhere...

Dr. What wrote:Has anybody tried a Trukk rush since 6th came out?

I have.

warboss (I sometimes proxy him in mega armor)

(big mek) I desided to dump kff mek for dakkajet

4 trukks of boyz (no bosspoles)

7 stormboyz (has pk nob like trukk boyz)

2 rokkit buggies

dakkajet wiht all goodies

1000 points

So far I have played against gk, nurgle deamons, slaanesh deamons and blood ravens. I have only lost to gk and that was purely because I did not know special rules for dakkajet, did not know I can refuse challenges, extremely lucky rolling gk player and got bad warlord trait. I'm hoping I can get a rematch against him.

wtwlf123 wrote:All of the weapons on the Dakkajet are mounted in fixed positions. I assume they can only fire at targets that are directly in front of them after they move?

I thought I heard something about the supa shootas being able to target units it passed over that turn, but I can't seem to find those rules anywhere...

This has been buggin me too. I personally have played dakkajet firing it's guns from the nose with 45 degree arc. Thing to note is that dakkajet box comes a grot sponsor which is clearly pintle mounted.

The pintle-mounted grot sponsons are for the other Ork planes. The Dakkajet doesn't use them.

The 45 degree arc is the proper way to calculate it, but you need to do it for each weapon. If the target is out of any number of the supa shoota's 45' arcs, those guns can't shoot at the target. Which means that the target is going to need to be at least 6-8" in front of the Jet after it moves in order to fire all 6 guns at it (maybe even farther). Kinda a bummer.

Which leads me to another question... how are people modeling the 3rd TL supa shoota? Just using the TL big shoota in the nose as a "counts-as" set?

I modelled mine using the mounts for the supashootas you get in the bommer variant.

wtwlf123 wrote:.

Which leads me to another question... how are people modeling the 3rd TL supa shoota? Just using the TL big shoota in the nose as a "counts-as" set?

Well, I just ordered my Bommer, but aren't there pieces to do 2 guns mounted below the nose? So wouldn't that be twin-linked (2 barrels being twin-linked in some cases)?

wtwlf123 wrote:The pintle-mounted grot sponsons are for the other Ork planes. The Dakkajet doesn't use them.

The 45 degree arc is the proper way to calculate it, but you need to do it for each weapon. If the target is out of any number of the supa shoota's 45' arcs, those guns can't shoot at the target. Which means that the target is going to need to be at least 6-8" in front of the Jet after it moves in order to fire all 6 guns at it (maybe even farther). Kinda a bummer.

Which leads me to another question... how are people modeling the 3rd TL supa shoota? Just using the TL big shoota in the nose as a "counts-as" set?

The box comes with three pairs of supa-shootas, just use all of them. Only the grot gunners use big shootas, all other bits are supa-shootaz (including the nose ones), even though they massively vary in size.

mrfantastical wrote:

Jidmah wrote:

By the way: Neither IA:8 nor IA:ASE allow lifta-droppers to be taken in regular Codex: Ork armies.

I believe the only things in IA:8 that are allowed in Codex: Orks are:

*Grot Tanks
*Mekboy junka
*Kustom-mega Dredd
*Big Trakk
*Gun Trukk
*Gun Wagon
*all Ork special characters
*Gargantuan Squigoth (option from Death Skullz Warboss Skalk Bluetoof)

Actually, not even the Meka-Dredd - since it requires a Mega Dredd to be in the Codex Ork army, but the Mega-Dredd has no entry saying where it goes in a Codex Ork army, it itself is invalid.

*shrugs shoulders*

Grot Mega Tanks, however, can also be included - as a Fast Attack option.

Need to find time to use my Grot Tanks again, those KMB's are in high demand. May as well risk the Get's Hot for that str8 ap2.

I am finding an interesting balance between accepting and denying challenges - the latter to allow for many more attacks to push in. Say, for example, refusing with my Nob, so that all my boyz get to lob their attacks into the target. In situations where the target may have a high invul save, this would be a preferable situation. Or, as in one situation, having my Warboss refuse a challenge against a Necron Overlord (with 3++), so that the rest of my Nobs can chop away at him.

A question though - I've really enjoyed having Mekboys inside battlewagons, but anyone have any suggestions / perceptions on using Burnas or Lootas for the Job? Additionally, how large? I currently use 12 Burnas, two of which are Meks. It works well, but looking to see if there's a more efficient way to go about it.

Gah fast attack?! I made a thread a while ago, where we were speculating how 6th/new codex would change the face of Orks. And I speculated that I think Fast attack would be a the new Heavy Support. And looks like Im right. DAKKAjets or Grot tanks?

Kharrak wrote:

mrfantastical wrote:

Jidmah wrote:

By the way: Neither IA:8 nor IA:ASE allow lifta-droppers to be taken in regular Codex: Ork armies.

I believe the only things in IA:8 that are allowed in Codex: Orks are:

*Grot Tanks
*Mekboy junka
*Kustom-mega Dredd
*Big Trakk
*Gun Trukk
*Gun Wagon
*all Ork special characters
*Gargantuan Squigoth (option from Death Skullz Warboss Skalk Bluetoof)

Actually, not even the Meka-Dredd - since it requires a Mega Dredd to be in the Codex Ork army, but the Mega-Dredd has no entry saying where it goes in a Codex Ork army, it itself is invalid.

*shrugs shoulders*

Grot Mega Tanks, however, can also be included - as a Fast Attack option.

Need to find time to use my Grot Tanks again, those KMB's are in high demand. May as well risk the Get's Hot for that str8 ap2.

I am finding an interesting balance between accepting and denying challenges - the latter to allow for many more attacks to push in. Say, for example, refusing with my Nob, so that all my boyz get to lob their attacks into the target. In situations where the target may have a high invul save, this would be a preferable situation. Or, as in one situation, having my Warboss refuse a challenge against a Necron Overlord (with 3++), so that the rest of my Nobs can chop away at him.

A question though - I've really enjoyed having Mekboys inside battlewagons, but anyone have any suggestions / perceptions on using Burnas or Lootas for the Job? Additionally, how large? I currently use 12 Burnas, two of which are Meks. It works well, but looking to see if there's a more efficient way to go about it.

I've been running Loota Wagons in the past 10 games ( 15 Lootas + Battlewagon), which has been one of the best units in our codex for me. In all the games I've played I've had my wagon blown up only once, and I usually run with 2. I bubble wrap them with shoota Boyz, & Kannons and just shoot the entire game. The versatility, range, and fire power of the Loota wagon is what makes my build work.

Also I don't see where you're required to have a Mega-Dread to take a Meka-Dread in the Codex: .

Jidmah wrote:

wtwlf123 wrote:The pintle-mounted grot sponsons are for the other Ork planes. The Dakkajet doesn't use them.

The 45 degree arc is the proper way to calculate it, but you need to do it for each weapon. If the target is out of any number of the supa shoota's 45' arcs, those guns can't shoot at the target. Which means that the target is going to need to be at least 6-8" in front of the Jet after it moves in order to fire all 6 guns at it (maybe even farther). Kinda a bummer.

Which leads me to another question... how are people modeling the 3rd TL supa shoota? Just using the TL big shoota in the nose as a "counts-as" set?

The box comes with three pairs of supa-shootas, just use all of them. Only the grot gunners use big shootas, all other bits are supa-shootaz (including the nose ones), even though they massively vary in size.

Oh okay cool. I thought they were Big Shootas since they're so much smaller than the wing-mounted Supa Shootas.

Cheers.

Kharrak wrote:
Actually, not even the Meka-Dredd - since it requires a Mega Dredd to be in the Codex Ork army, but the Mega-Dredd has no entry saying where it goes in a Codex Ork army, it itself is invalid.

*shrugs shoulders*

Actually there is a mention for the Mega-Dread that it counts as a Heavy Support choice in Codex: Orks armies. Sadly you can't count it as a troop choice. Then you can take a Kustom Meka-Dread as an HQ choice.

Just another report on performance.
I ran two BWs in a 1500 pt game last night against Tau, and they managed to soak 6 railgun shots a round for 4 rounds before one exploded. This was with the KFF, and one rigger repair for an immobilized hit.
BWs are better than ever I feel.

Pretty sure they were some lucky dice rolls! And bad tau positioning, but yes wagons are more survivable than ever, especially with hull point repairing meks.

Better yet, you have a 12 hull point stompa that can be constantly repaired by meks, rendering it basically immortal Thumbs up for anything not a trukk.

Keep in mind that super-heavies can transport multiple units, so you could carry 6x 3 meks and 2 burnaz around, for a total of 18 attempts to fix the stompa. Oh, and wall of death

It would even fit the fluff described in IA:8 where Mekboss Buzzgob walks around his gargant and there are meks and burnaz everywhere building new gubbinz and welding more armor plate on everything.

Murrdox wrote:

Kharrak wrote:
Actually, not even the Meka-Dredd - since it requires a Mega Dredd to be in the Codex Ork army, but the Mega-Dredd has no entry saying where it goes in a Codex Ork army, it itself is invalid.

*shrugs shoulders*

Actually there is a mention for the Mega-Dread that it counts as a Heavy Support choice in Codex: Orks armies. Sadly you can't count it as a troop choice. Then you can take a Kustom Meka-Dread as an HQ choice.

Really? Can't find any information on where the Mega Dread (NOT Meka Dread) can be included myself - suspect you may be mistaken.

The Meka Dread can never be taken as an HQ choice for Codex Orks, since its inclusion, in both the HQ and Dread areas of IA:8 say it can be included as Heavy Support, IF there's another Mega Dread.

KingCracker wrote:Gah fast attack?! I made a thread a while ago, where we were speculating how 6th/new codex would change the face of Orks. And I speculated that I think Fast attack would be a the new Heavy Support. And looks like Im right. DAKKAjets or Grot tanks?

Grot Tanks are Elites.
Grot Mega Tanks are Fast Attack

You could take a dread mob mega dread as ally and then field Meka dreads in your primary detachment

Despite that, in case of the mega dread, the implicit slot is quite obvious. With all the switching around for lootaz, kanz, deff dreads, grot tanks etc, it's hard to claim the same for the lifta droppa.

Kharrak wrote:

Murrdox wrote:

Kharrak wrote:
Actually, not even the Meka-Dredd - since it requires a Mega Dredd to be in the Codex Ork army, but the Mega-Dredd has no entry saying where it goes in a Codex Ork army, it itself is invalid.

*shrugs shoulders*

Actually there is a mention for the Mega-Dread that it counts as a Heavy Support choice in Codex: Orks armies. Sadly you can't count it as a troop choice. Then you can take a Kustom Meka-Dread as an HQ choice.

Really? Can't find any information on where the Mega Dread (NOT Meka Dread) can be included myself - suspect you may be mistaken.

The Meka Dread can never be taken as an HQ choice for Codex Orks, since its inclusion, in both the HQ and Dread areas of IA:8 say it can be included as Heavy Support, IF there's another Mega Dread.

KingCracker wrote:Gah fast attack?! I made a thread a while ago, where we were speculating how 6th/new codex would change the face of Orks. And I speculated that I think Fast attack would be a the new Heavy Support. And looks like Im right. DAKKAjets or Grot tanks?

Grot Tanks are Elites.
Grot Mega Tanks are Fast Attack

Ahh that makes sense I guess. I dont have an IA book, so really I was just going off of what someone on here said. Still though, Fast Attack is the new Heavy Support for us.

Well I lost my first game of 6th, but I did go out with one hell of a bang. I can honestly tell the reason I lost we set up and mission. The game boiled down to the SM player setting up in a tight table corner and just doing a serious gun line. He had 2 tacticals, a sternguard squad, Cato, 2 vindicators and a whirlwind. There was just too many bullets to get through it all, not to mention I rolled poorly, naturally, on the 2 things I needed to roll decent on the most. But it was fun, I had a burna wagon that wall of flamed the ever living gak out of a tactical squad, and my deffkoptas krumped one of the vindicators.

So I can say, that burnas are incredibly brutal in 6th, wow. Do not doubt those guys, they WILL make your opponent pay weather they charge or not


But at the same time, I could see the lootas riding shotgun in the wagon REALLY being useful, there were many times I thought "If only I had taken Lootas instead.

take both lootas and burnas. both are an amazing value for having a squad where every model is equipped with good weaponry.

heckler wrote:
take both lootas and burnas. both are an amazing value for having a squad where every model is equipped with good weaponry.

"Points Permitting" is the issue here

I struggle - local standard is 1750, and its tough to fit what I feel I need into my lists. I never feel I have enough Lootas, feel I really need my grot tanks, can't have less than three trukkboyz, and so on.

On having had a game yesteday - one REALLY must remember to maneuver their Nobs well, to avoid that first challenge and still get them into the fight. Keep them 3" away from the enemy after charging - they can't be challengs, but should be able to then consolidate into the combat to get hits in. Though they may be challenged afterwards, just those first few attacks in that first round are crucial.

I'm also learning when to accept a challenge, even if it would mean the death of my Nob.

While taking a shower, I realized I made a HUGE mistake last night, that could of easily turned the tide of our game. When my biker boss was mowed down, I TOTALLY FORGOT to do the "Look out Sir" for his 4 wounds. If only I had remembered that, the slaughter would of been glorious

 Kharrak wrote:

I struggle - local standard is 1750, and its tough to fit what I feel I need into my lists. I never feel I have enough Lootas, feel I really need my grot tanks, can't have less than three trukkboyz, and so on.

My local standard has generally been 1.5k and I feel that these medium point games are actually better. You don't have all the points to have all of what you want but enough to have some, or maybe more but have to slim down elsewhere. It forces compromises that you don't get in 2k or 2.5k and can make for much more tense games.

I prefer sub 2k point games, because your gambles are bigger and your choices are harder. You either play it safe and have a bunch of bodies and prey for not too many av14, OR you take a couple tough guy units at the cost of more points per unit. So you really have to think, and play smarter.

 KingCracker wrote:
I prefer sub 2k point games, because your gambles are bigger and your choices are harder. You either play it safe and have a bunch of bodies and prey for not too many av14, OR you take a couple tough guy units at the cost of more points per unit. So you really have to think, and play smarter.

In total agreement. I tend towards 1500 as it forces every army to make hard decisions and you have a lot less spamming of the "best" units.

I favour 1750, it doesnt offer the flexibility of 2k, but doesnt constrict as much as 1500. That said i also like 1000, because its small, but small in a nice way if you know what i mean, not just an awkward pain in the ass like 1250 or 1850.

1500-2000 is my favorite range. 1750/1850 probably being my two favorite points levels.

 Bonzofever wrote:
Yes I think Flakka Trakks are awesome. I believe they are to be added to the upcoming Ork Dex in 2013: there is a list of upcoming GW releases on the web that makes me think we might have some "ex-Apocalypse" units added to a standard 40K codex. In addition, as the Stompa is a GW kit I expect to find its rules in a GW rulebook for 6th edition. I do hope so, tbh

"Tellyporta Nobz" ??!!

ps, I'm liking the 2000 cap, as you can have 4 HQ at that level now!

And 6 manticores! YAY THE GAME IS BALANCED

P.S. I hate double foc

 Orkaswampa wrote:
And 6 manticores! YAY THE GAME IS BALANCED

P.S. I hate double foc

I thought they came in squadrons, for an allowance of 18?

I will never participate in double FoC. It's a broken bunch of BS and not worth my time.

Nope. Leman Russes and Hydras come in squadrons. Manticores are like the other "artillery" units and do not come in squadrons, like medusa's and basilisks don't. Thank the emporer!

 Orkaswampa wrote:
Nope. Leman Russes and Hydras come in squadrons. Manticores are like the other "artillery" units and do not come in squadrons, like medusa's and basilisks don't. Thank the emporer!

Corrction: Medusa's and Basilisks CAN come in squadrons. Unless I misread your post.

 matphat wrote:
I will never participate in double FoC. It's a broken bunch of BS and not worth my time.

At 2000 points with double Force Org, Orks can get:

3 Big Meks w/ KFF
18 Killa Kans, mixture of Grotzookas and Rokkits
3 Deff Dreads, Skorcha, CCW, Armour Plates, and Riggers

That leaves you 500 points and some change for Boyz and other units.

Of course I realize this isn't nearly as insane as what other armies can do with a double-force org at 2000 points, but it's still amusing. That's one hell of a Dread Bash army right there.

Just get more Deff Dredd, and a SAG Mek.


Then again, just how many Boyz can one get at 2000 with double FoC?

Your math may vary, but in a 2000 point list:

2 Warbosses w/ PK and other basics
7 squads of 30 Boyz, w/ Nob, PK, and 3 Big Shootas.

That leaves you 100 points for some extra toys, or a Big Mek, etc.

But that's over 200 Boyz. One crazy hell of a Green Tide!

Or you could fit 360 grots in under 1500. That'd be even more insane.

Big Mek /w KFF - 85
Big Mek /w SAG + Cyb + EA + BP - 115

30x Boyz - 180
30x Boyz - 180
30x Boyz - 180
30x Boyz - 180

30x Boyz - 180
30x Boyz - 180
30x Boyz - 180

30x Boyz - 180
30x Boyz - 180
30x Boyz - 180

2000 On the Dot, Big Meks slowed upgrades are to make 2000, as you cant double foc at 1999.
302 Model Count, if you can roll double 6s every turn with SAG and get the first turn each game, this will be competitive (assuming you get 3 days per turn)

If every single boy charged, they would inflict 300 wounds on space marines on average which is 50 terminator kills, 100 marine kills, 150 eldar/tau kills, 200 guardsmen kills, 250 ork kills, 300 gretchin kills
However the only way that could ever happen is a house rule where you can have unlimited size squads of terminators etc and one ork is within range of the artefact that gives you I10

Anvildude wrote:
Just get more Deff Dredd, and a SAG Mek.


Then again, just how many Boyz can one get at 2000 with double FoC?

360 boys

2 big meks 70 pts
360 boys, 2160 no upgrades

140 points to play with for a 2500 pt game.

You just flood every square inch of your deployment zone with boys, then just march across the field towards his HQ.

you could claim every objective, cross the line while denying him as he'd have no room to cross. Keep your hq in the back and go for his.

"Tide's Rollin' in!"

360 orks would be damned impressive. Would be even funnier when you tell your opponent "these guys are starting in reserve as i cannot place another model in my deployment zone"

 keltikhoa wrote:

360 orks would be damned impressive. Would be even funnier when you tell your opponent "these guys are starting in reserve as i cannot place another model in my deployment zone"

ya it would, But I think it should be worded.

"Ok, thats 210 boys on the table, I'll hold the last 150 in reserves as I can't place them yet"

Then grin at your opponent as it sinks in

At 2k you can have 1 big mek and 327 boys, maxed.

except you have to have 2 HQ's, as you are using 2 Primary Detachments

-7 Boyz for another big mek then.

someone needs to run a list like that sometime. If I had extra bases, or extra dudes, I'd totally do it.

You guys do know that IG can, and sometimes do, fill an entire deployment zone per shooting phase with templates, without specificly gearing up against this, right?

Heck, this might even let their master of ordnance hit something...

//Calle

Guard can have 6 manticores at double foc, 990 points, GL all

Meh, I think running 90 Lootas is the cheesiest thing you can do with double FO Orks.

2 KFF Big Meks - 170
90 Lootas - 1350
2 Deff Dreads /w 4 CCWs - 210
2 Shoota Boyz Mob - 29 Boys + Nob /w PK Bosspole - 440
2170

Have fun on the turn you get 270 Deffgun shots.

Heck, with that many Lootas, don't even bother using them as a Heavy Weapons team. Just march them up the board like really, really dangerous Shootaboyz, and Snapfire away. Then Assault! They're still Boyz, after all.

IIRC Deffguns are Heavy.

Not sure you can assault with a heavy weappon after firing it (barring adding someone with relentless to the unit) but i'd be delighted to be wrong

Actually, adding someone Relentless could be awesome. Just pop 4 double-PowerKlaw Meks in the army. (or maybe just some Warbosses) Would want to seperate them though, before being assaulted- so you can Snapfire. Or when you're tryign to hit aircraft.

 Ascalam wrote:
IIRC Deffguns are Heavy.

Not sure you can assault with a heavy weappon after firing it (barring adding someone with relentless to the unit) but i'd be delighted to be wrong

You're correct. You can only assault after firing Heavy weapons if the unit has Relentless.

Then again, you'll rarely want to throw your Lootas into combat.

 Amaya wrote:
Meh, I think running 90 Lootas is the cheesiest thing you can do with double FO Orks.

2 KFF Big Meks - 170
90 Lootas - 1350
2 Deff Dreads /w 4 CCWs - 210
2 Shoota Boyz Mob - 29 Boys + Nob /w PK Bosspole - 440
2170

Have fun on the turn you get 270 Deffgun shots.

They would be forever known as "Da Deff Klan" and their battle cry is "WOT?!?!?!?!?!"

Dat'z why, if GW were ever to create Loota Nobz with bigger gunz, the bigger guns would need to be called "WOT!?!gunz". Because anytime anyone asks "Oi, whutchu call dat snazzy Dakka?" the answer will be "WOT?!"

 KingCracker wrote:

They would be forever known as "Da Deff Klan" and their battle cry is "WOT?!?!?!?!?!"

I loled

Rofl, loota nobz and burna nobz need to be in the next codex ;p

I've actually converted a loota nob with a pair of Imperial heavy bolters and a Terminator power fist. Right now I just use him as a regular loota, I can't wait until I can actually use him as a seperate unit type. Twin-linked deffguns, anyone?

Nah, it'll be Spinny Dakka:
S7 AP3 Assault 2

I'd like just saying to the opponent, "right roll to hit for spinny dakka", that'd be great

Another fun abuse of the stupid double force org.

4 Warbosses PK, Bosspole, Cybork Body - 95 each 380 total
Elites
5 Nobs in Battlewagon /w Deffrolla 205
5 Nobs in Battlewagon /w Deffrolla 205
5 Nobs in Battlewagon /w Deffrolla 205

Troops
5 Nobs in Battlewagon /w Deffrolla 205
5 Nobs in Battlewagon /w Deffrolla 205
5 Nobs in Battlewagon /w Deffrolla 205
5 Nobs in Battlewagon /w Deffrolla 205




Heavy Support
Deffrolla Battlewagon 105
Deffrolla Battlewagon 105
Deffrolla Battlewagon 105
Deffrolla Battlewagon 105
Deffrolla Battlewagon 105
Deffrolla Battlewagon 105

13 Battlewagons /w Deffrollas at under 2500 points.

Not to mention the 35 Nobz. And you could fit even more Battlewagons in there- double FoC means you can have 6 Elites.

You all have to keep in mind that all those spammy lists (including the six manticores) open up huge weaknesses as opposed to a well-rounded list. If your opponent can exploit that weakness, you're done for.

For example, those 6 manticores, while scary still result into 50% of your opponent's points being sunk into AV12/10/10 vehicles. If wants a half-decent bubble-wrap around that, as well as three of those awesome vendettas, that's about all he is going to field. If he skips the bubblewrap, feel free to tear apart his rocket-tanks with bikers, trukks or other fast elements. It's not like he is going to attempt to shoot you with S10 blasts when you're right in front of his vehicles. AP4 on those missiles also means that they aren't even guaranteed to destroy a measly trukk with a direct hit (33%), let allone a battlewagon.

Barrage weapon also means that you simply deploy your lootaz on the bottom floor of a ruin. If the hole of the blast hits the top floor, your lootaz will remain unscathed, if your opponent manages to get hit them anyways, dive for 3+ cover. Simply deploying in area terrain will net similar results. Oh, and fun fact: If you survive until turn 5, your opponent has 990 points of artillery doing nothing but shooting heavy bolters.

It's realls the same for most spam lists. Battlewagon are not landraiders. That battlewagon list will fold to any army being capable of bringing more bodies than you are, which includes about any marine foot army. Any regular ork list should be able to tear you a new one.

For a start a rolla wagon is 110 base, not 105. Aside from that, there's no support or even weapons apart from the WB's PKs.

I'd be more tempted by something like this:

WB - MA, CB, BP
WB - MA, CB, BP

Meganobs x 5
Wagon 4 BS, RPJ, Rigger, Ram
Meganobs x 5
Wagon 4 BS, RPJ, Rigger, Ram
Meganobs x 5
Wagon 2 BS, RPJ, Rigger, Ram
Meganobs x 5
Wagon 2 BS, RPJ, Rigger, Ram

Lootas x 10
Lootas x 10
Wagon 4 BS, Rigger, Ram
Wagon 4 BS, Rigger, Ram

Dakkajet, super shoota, fighta ace
Dakkajet, super shoota, fighta ace
Dakkajet, super shoota, fighta ace

Of course if we want to abuse FoC, then you can always try 90 lootas, two big meks and 120 boys.

Or 10 MANz missiles and scatter them all over the place

 virx67 wrote:
When in doubt: Shoot the assualty things, and assualt the shooty things.

That's a nice orky strategy !!!!

It's actually "Shoot da choppy gits, chop da shooty gits"

An' if neiva uv doze wurk, den WAAAAGH!!

You're all wrong, the only thing resonating through an orks mind in the battle is "squish dat, krump dem". It's like music on a loop, with the occasional waagh signalling to turn the volume up.

WB - PK, BP, CB - 95
WB - PK, BP, CB - 95
WB - PK, BP, CB - 95
WB - PK, BP, CB - 95

3 Meganobs - Trukk - RPJ, Ram - 165
3 Meganobs - Trukk - RPJ, Ram - 165
3 Meganobs - Trukk - RPJ, Ram - 165
3 Meganobs - Trukk - RPJ, Ram - 165
3 Meganobs - Trukk - RPJ, Ram - 165
3 Meganobs - Trukk - RPJ, Ram - 165
3 Meganobs - Trukk - RPJ, Ram - 165
3 Meganobs - Trukk - RPJ, Ram - 165
3 Meganobs - Trukk - RPJ - 165
3 Meganobs - Trukk - RPJ - 165
3 Meganobs - Trukk - RPJ - 165
3 Meganobs - Trukk - RPJ - 165
3 Meganobs - Trukk - RPJ - 165

2500 on the nose.

Then all you need is 39 or so Meganobz, and a fleet of trukks..

Could be a fun list to try out though..

That list will be thankful that tau no longer get target locks

So what is the consenus on MANz VS. Nobs vs Biker Nobz. From my understanding Nob Bikers are king, but i am actually really curious how effective MANz are specially with a Mega Armored Warboss with a boss pole, cybork and Attack squig with either a speeding trukk or just a wagon? It's a large point investment but in CC i can't imagine many people dealing with this easily. I just wish MANZ were characters now...

Theyre pretty brutal. Although I think itll be tough to get them into combat with a trukk unless you go first and can move up the field and go flat out since your opponent is gonna blow it up ASAP if they go first. I think a wagon is your best bet if you have the points.

Mobility is the obvious difference - MANz or Nobz aren't that great at trudging across the battlefield or doing much shooty damage at a distance. Suicide trukks, or the more expensive but durable BW, seem required, which bumps up the cost.

 Billagio wrote:
Theyre pretty brutal. Although I think itll be tough to get them into combat with a trukk unless you go first and can move up the field and go flat out since your opponent is gonna blow it up ASAP if they go first. I think a wagon is your best bet if you have the points.

With 3+ reserve rolls and 24" movement distance now, there is little lost if you simply reserve their trukk.

Since I'll be getting my second Bomma within the week, I've found myself really struggling to decide what to turn my second bomma into. I had initially planned to have a Burna Bomma to turn with my current Dakka Jet, but the idea of having two Dakkajet's has suddenly popped into my head.

How would you guys recommend a dakka jet plus burna, versus two Dakka Jets?

Also, has anyone tried giving the Blitza Bomma a run and see how it is?

Edit: To be more specific, anyone try the Blitza-Bomma in several games? When I first used my Dakka-Jet, I waagh'd and fired at a venom, and only inflicted a single glance. Initial one-game impressions are only worth so much

 Kharrak wrote:
Since I'll be getting my second Bomma within the week, I've found myself really struggling to decide what to turn my second bomma into. I had initially planned to have a Burna Bomma to turn with my current Dakka Jet, but the idea of having two Dakkajet's has suddenly popped into my head.

How would you guys recommend a dakka jet plus burna, versus two Dakka Jets?

Also, has anyone tried giving the Blitza Bomma a run and see how it is?

Edit: To be more specific, anyone try the Blitza-Bomma in several games? When I first used my Dakka-Jet, I waagh'd and fired at a venom, and only inflicted a single glance. Initial one-game impressions are only worth so much

modular it up baby!

Imo double dakkajet and a burna bommer is good. 18 or 36 S6 shots (BS3 T/L AP4) is very good for killing anything A12 or less, and a burna bommer can much through weak infantry so your boys can slam home on something that nobz would normally have to deal with due to the fact boyz are elsewhere wasting time on guardsmen.

Only tried the blitza bomba once, and, I probably won't try it again. Believe me, nobody would have loved it if it worked as intended more than me...

Whilst in many cases, managing to get that penetrating hit is the trouble, not so with the blitza bomber, its weakness is that it's ONE penetrating hit. With no bonus rolled on the damage table... Rolling a 1-2 is crap, especially since the thing we need it for (Landraiders) usually have the upgrade that makes 2s into 1s, and a pesky machine spirit that lets it shoot is out of the sky in its following turn.
Re-aligning for a second run will probably leavy the bomber blown out of the sky.

I'd have loved it if it could be counted on to actually do what we need it for, cracking av14s. Russes/landraiders/monoliths. Unfortunately, 1/2 of the times you get to roll on the damage table, you won't get a usefull result. Add in the fact that some of the av14 beasts you want to take out, don't really care if you immobilise them, as it hardly hampers their function (looking at you LRBT) as they're mildly inconvenienced and will just keep blasting you, in which case 2/3 of the results are a fail...

Had it been ap 1/2 on the other hand, it would have had its uses...

The other two jets work wonderfully for what they're intended, the dakkajet excells against AV12s, and the waagh salvoe is enugh to make MEQs shivver,as 36 shots, at bs3, that wounds on 2+ will drown them with saves to make.
The burna bomber id a tad less versatile, but REALLY puts the hurt on infantry, especially GEQs...

//Calle

Thing is, that one penetrating hit strips one (or is it a whole 2?) Hull Points in addition to the 'extra' effect. Don't think of it as "not" getting a good result on the primary means of damage- that's 5th ed speak. Think of it as doing what tank-bustin' weapons are meant to do, plus Extra!

Thinking of restarting my orks. I have 4 wagons, 10 meganobs, ghas, nobs, 2 truks, 6 kans, and a lot of boys.

Thinking of going with a battle wagon rush + a necron detachment. The main army will be orks, the necrons are just arming them and helping transport orks from fight to fight. I also think it would be fun to model some ork shootas or flash gits with gauss rifles and big shootas with gauss blastas or tesla carbines.

Anyhow the great debate is meganobs, nobs, or boys in the wagons. The list will probably have 3 wagons with a kff big mek in one of them.

 schadenfreude wrote:
Thinking of restarting my orks. I have 4 wagons, 10 meganobs, ghas, nobs, 2 truks, 6 kans, and a lot of boys.

Thinking of going with a battle wagon rush + a necron detachment. The main army will be orks, the necrons are just arming them and helping transport orks from fight to fight. I also think it would be fun to model some ork shootas or flash gits with gauss rifles and big shootas with gauss blastas or tesla carbines.

Anyhow the great debate is meganobs, nobs, or boys in the wagons. The list will probably have 3 wagons with a kff big mek in one of them.

I would say mega nobz = scariest things you can see coming out of the battlewagon.

 Kharrak wrote:
Since I'll be getting my second Bomma within the week, I've found myself really struggling to decide what to turn my second bomma into. I had initially planned to have a Burna Bomma to turn with my current Dakka Jet, but the idea of having two Dakkajet's has suddenly popped into my head.

How would you guys recommend a dakka jet plus burna, versus two Dakka Jets?

Also, has anyone tried giving the Blitza Bomma a run and see how it is?

Edit: To be more specific, anyone try the Blitza-Bomma in several games? When I first used my Dakka-Jet, I waagh'd and fired at a venom, and only inflicted a single glance. Initial one-game impressions are only worth so much

You really should magnetize it. The bommer is extremely easy to magnetize (well, except the third pair of shootaz, mounted on the wings), plus it's awesome when you can pluck off skorcha rokkits and bombs you have fired/that were destroyed in order to keep track of them. There was a tutorial here on dakkadakka that I simply followed, the really did turn out awesome.

As for the blitza-bommer: As awesome as it was in the few game of 5th I got in with it, it doesn't do gak in 6th anymore. The small blast is pretty likely to hit the vehicle, but then it usually takes off a hull point and some minor effect. To destroy a landraider, you might be dropping six bombs from three jets on it and still have it survive. The bombs being AP4 simply hurts way too much. Once you find yourself hoping for bommers to crash in order to get AP2 hits, you know something's wrong about them. In short: Not enuff dakka.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:
I would say mega nobz = scariest things you can see coming out of the battlewagon.

The scariest thing you can see coming out of a battlewagon would be 16 flamer templates

With the bommer kit, just glue the big bombz, all 3 sets of shootas and all the rokkits you can fit on. It looks badass and shouldnt have a problem in counts as as you simply elect not to use the large bombs and missiles, not the case of having a dakkajet then saying it counts as a blitza without bombs strapped to it.

{size=9]Automatically Appended Next Post:[/size]

 Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:
I would say mega nobz = scariest things you can see coming out of the battlewagon.

The scariest thing you can see coming out of a battlewagon would be 16 flamer templates

imo meganobz are too expensive to come out of a battlewagon, they're too easy to kill. One demolisher template and they are gone...like half your points. Nob bikers however have a permanent cover save and you can give a 5++ which you should always do imo, whereas you have to run the terrible grotsnik if you want that on meganobz. They are too risky imo, whereas nob bikers are not as much of a gamble since they will always work one way or another.

 Orkaswampa wrote:
imo meganobz are too expensive to come out of a battlewagon, they're too easy to kill. One demolisher template and they are gone...like half your points. Nob bikers however have a permanent cover save and you can give a 5++ which you should always do imo, whereas you have to run the terrible grotsnik if you want that on meganobz. They are too risky imo, whereas nob bikers are not as much of a gamble since they will always work one way or another.

Mega nobs are like half your points, and nob bikers aren't?

I think the biggest thing you can give orks is mobility. Bikers have built in mobility and don't have to worry about slogging ever.
That in and of it's self make them just leaps and bounds above Megas in my opinion.
But I've never run Megas so don't listen to me.

A demolisher cannon is not difficult to deal with, and aren't that common (at least where I play) unless put on a vindicator, which with hull points, is even more loota fodder than before. A dakkajet to the side and it's gone.
Meganobs need support, get that right and you don't have much to worry about.

False Tactic, you can't assault on T1 with scout or infiltrate.

Does anybody have a way to make Kommandos work besides as decorations?

This is my goal for the month!

Dr. What wrote:
False Tactic, you can't assault on T1 with scout or infiltrate.

Does anybody have a way to make Kommandos work besides as decorations?

This is my goal for the month!

En mass distractions that MUST hug cover the round they come in and rush into flanks while speedy bikers or the like close round 2 to make the choice a difficult one to take.

Outflank + speedy models = mobility countered

Dr. What wrote:
False Tactic, you can't assault on T1 with scout or infiltrate.

Does anybody have a way to make Kommandos work besides as decorations?

This is my goal for the month!

Sort answer: No.
Long answer: Noooooooooooooo.

Kommandoz can't do anything boyz can't. Infiltrating melee units is a waste of points, outflanking them doesn't work.

 Dribble Joy wrote:
WB - PK, BP, CB - 95
WB - PK, BP, CB - 95
WB - PK, BP, CB - 95
WB - PK, BP, CB - 95

3 Meganobs - Trukk - RPJ, Ram - 165
3 Meganobs - Trukk - RPJ, Ram - 165
3 Meganobs - Trukk - RPJ, Ram - 165
3 Meganobs - Trukk - RPJ, Ram - 165
3 Meganobs - Trukk - RPJ, Ram - 165
3 Meganobs - Trukk - RPJ, Ram - 165
3 Meganobs - Trukk - RPJ, Ram - 165
3 Meganobs - Trukk - RPJ, Ram - 165
3 Meganobs - Trukk - RPJ - 165
3 Meganobs - Trukk - RPJ - 165
3 Meganobs - Trukk - RPJ - 165
3 Meganobs - Trukk - RPJ - 165
3 Meganobs - Trukk - RPJ - 165

2500 on the nose.

Lists like this just further prove Jidmahs point though. Example, my brothers Marines are pretty plasma heavy. So loaded down with plasma, or a typical IG list, would mow this list apart in a turn or two. Think about it, IG or SM @2500pts with a balanced list...... you have 36? MANz? A decent FRFSRF from one blob would kill off just one of those units after the plasma blew the trukk to bits. Its pretty gimmicky. Id rather go with a more balanced list, because @2500 points, Orks can really pack in there. Though, admittedly, @2k+ Id be filling the sky with DAKKAjets and Blitzabommas

Hey, for the gitz, do they roll the AP result as a unit or per git? And if you have shootier, is it same ap for both shots?

Meganobz are too fragile for their cost. As mentioned above plasma squads, ap2 templates (especially anything S10) will mow down meganobz, and unless you put a warboss in their going to be fleeing with crappy leadership most of the time due to small squad sizes (7 iirc, maybe 8) as you cant get a bosspole (iirc).

Bikers are much more durable as it is much easier to defend them, they can have fnp without grotsnik as well as perma cover saves and an invulnerable for cheap. They will survive turn 1 against a blood angels vindicator whereas 10 meganobz will be down to 2 if hit by it.

Also i think the meganob trukk spam list is illegal, i.e 3x squads too many. At double foc it gets 6 elites, which it has, and due to bosses 4 troops, so 10 squads, but it has 13?

3 Burna Bommer + 3 Dakkajet would be fun at double foc (I personally dont like blitza bommers)

 loota boy wrote:
Hey, for the gitz, do they roll the AP result as a unit or per git? And if you have shootier, is it same ap for both shots?

I would say as a unit and for both shots

 loota boy wrote:
Hey, for the gitz, do they roll the AP result as a unit or per git? And if you have shootier, is it same ap for both shots?

You roll AP for the unit, and it applies for that unit's shooting.

All shots from the unit that turn will have the rolled AP.

Thanks!

I recently played against IG armies, 500 points Orks. A foot army as follows:

1x Big Mek - KFF, PK, Cybork Body
5x Nobz (1PK, 1 Big Choppa)
15x Shootaboyz
15x Shootaboyz
3x Kannons

I lost the first game because of the combined "Overwatch" threat + burners everywhere. Defeat, plain and simple. Kanons didn't help at all.
You can't rush with boyz anymore. Don't ever make 'em assault a vehicle, they'd likely burn in a few secs the next turn, even if they did kill that Hellhound tank

The two other games I modified my list as follows:

1x Big Mek - KFF, PK, Cybork Body
5x Nobz (1PK, 1 Big Choppa)
20x Shootaboyz
10x Shootaboyz
3x Lobbas

Much better, won the 2 games thanks to victory points. Placed the bigger shooty squad in reserve, then hid the boyz in ruins, and let the dakka do the talkin'.
Lobbas are great for smaller games, a bit of sniping does help. Big Mek rushed on the Hellhound, and Nobz took care of the HQ squad.

In a couple of weeks I'll play much larger games, 750 - 1500 - 1999 points, and maybe an Apocalypse game (3000).
I'll let ya know if ya want

Has anybody tried out a mob of Stormboyz yet? I'm not seeing anything in the tactics portion of the OP...

Dr. What wrote:
Has anybody tried out a mob of Stormboyz yet? I'm not seeing anything in the tactics portion of the OP...

Moves too fast ahead of the hordes, too lightly armored and too pts intensive to field effectively IMO

Stormboyz still suck, but suck more with new jump pack restrictions, i.e you can use it once a turn, so its move further, or re-roll charge dist, and with the casualties they can cause on themselves (especialyl with zag) they kill themselves pretty much.

Played yet another game against some FMC tonight, and I can say Im glad Ive played against my wife and hers before tonight. I have learned, that if there is a FMC around, just ignore the bastard until it drops down to attack. If not, ignore it. I rocked tonight in a game against newer guy to the group that plays Nids. I just ignored the fliers until he landed it to attack, then it was on. Seriously lads, unless you have a sure fire unit to down a flier, just ignore them and go after the rest, youll only waste your shots on something that is going to be a PITA to down.

Also, as far as I know, Hammer of Wrath doesn't take Furious Charge into account, meaning they're hitting at Str3 with it. Not nice.

Would be awesome if Zaggstrukk was FAQ'd so that his talonz let him hit with PF strength during HoW.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, however, I think that Stormboyz are still some of the fastest JI in the game- their Rokketpacks (I think) still give them that extra d6 move regardless of where/when the Jumppack ability is used.

 Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:

Dr. What wrote:
Has anybody tried out a mob of Stormboyz yet? I'm not seeing anything in the tactics portion of the OP...

Moves too fast ahead of the hordes, too lightly armored and too pts intensive to field effectively IMO

Pretty much. I wouldn't say they suck, they are just too expensive for what they do. At 9 points per model, they would be much more useful, bringing their unit cost in line with other "special boyz", like burnaz and lootaz. 240 points without squad leader is just way over the top for fast slugga boyz.

Orkaswampa wrote:Stormboyz still suck, but suck more with new jump pack restrictions, i.e you can use it once a turn, so its move further, or re-roll charge dist, and with the casualties they can cause on themselves (especialyl with zag) they kill themselves pretty much.

How do they "suck more" if they've actually gotten better? It's not like you could use your jump pack in assault before. So it's not a limitation, but a new choice.

Anvildude wrote:Also, as far as I know, Hammer of Wrath doesn't take Furious Charge into account, meaning they're hitting at Str3 with it. Not nice.

Would be awesome if Zaggstrukk was FAQ'd so that his talonz let him hit with PF strength during HoW.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, however, I think that Stormboyz are still some of the fastest JI in the game- their Rokketpacks (I think) still give them that extra d6 move regardless of where/when the Jumppack ability is used.

You're correct on the FC+HoW part. It says "unmodified strength".

You either get 12+d6" move, and 2d6 charge with no HoW, or 6" move, and 2d6 with rerolls +1d6" charge and HoW. Unless you need to cross terrain, you really shouldn't be moving 12" on a turn you assault.

The best thing for stormboyz is max mob with zagstruk and assault the biggest model count unit your opponent has via deep strike, thats it for them really.

I've found them useful for silencing annoying small units like Devastators or Fire Dragons, but they are definitely overcosted for their effect.

Shame really, because the models are awesome.

 Ascalam wrote:
I've found them useful for silencing annoying small units like Devastators or Fire Dragons, but they are definitely overcosted for their effect.

Shame really, because the models are awesome.

Agreed, i think the problem would go away with things like jink, smoke cloud or higher armor saves for the 12 pts.

 Jidmah wrote:

...
You either get 12+d6" move, and 2d6 charge with no HoW, or 6" move, and 2d6 with rerolls +1d6" charge and HoW. Unless you need to cross terrain, you really shouldn't be moving 12" on a turn you assault.

Hold on here. Does Fleet give you rerolls only on the specific 2d6 charge, or on all the dice used to charge? Because this essentially means that Stormboyz could roll 3d6 with re-rolls for any of the dice. That's actually really, really cool.

Anvildude wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

...
You either get 12+d6" move, and 2d6 charge with no HoW, or 6" move, and 2d6 with rerolls +1d6" charge and HoW. Unless you need to cross terrain, you really shouldn't be moving 12" on a turn you assault.

Hold on here. Does Fleet give you rerolls only on the specific 2d6 charge, or on all the dice used to charge? Because this essentially means that Stormboyz could roll 3d6 with re-rolls for any of the dice. That's actually really, really cool.

Stormboyz don't get fleet. They got FAQ'd a while back and had WAAAGH! removed from their special rules.


I honestly am going to keep my slots for Warbikes, as I much prefer them.

Yeah, stormboyz suck at the end of the day. Until new codex each boy is 12 points wasted. Tbh 1 buggy is better than 3 stormboyz (points equiv roughly).

Sorry. Not 'Fleet' per-se. I meant the"Use the Rokkitpack to charge" thing.

Anvildude wrote:
Sorry. Not 'Fleet' per-se. I meant the"Use the Rokkitpack to charge" thing.

The rokkit pack die isn't actually a roll-for-charge-range thing. You simply see if one boy explodes, and then add the number rolled to whatever move they were doing.

Oh, and storm boyz couldn't get fleet even when they had the Waagh! rule. Fleet is limited to infantry, which excludes jump infantry.

I'm really sorry to bring this once again, but I have a question about LOS for Nob Bikerz + Warboss. I understand now the HQ is immune to ID thanks to its permanent T6, and that he'll soak up enemy fire as long as he is first in line. I also get that Nob Bikerz can LOS on 2+ for him and that the Warboss toughness is used instead of the nobz'. BUT I'd like to know if a Nob LOSing on the T6 Warboss can be instant-killed by a S10 weapon - e.g. IG's Manticores. Does he take a single wound since the shot was aimed at a T6 model, or does the Nob own tougness prevails on LOS?

... Duh, is this crystal clear?

Thanks in advance!

Again, re-explaining. Regular Jump Infantry can either use their Jump Pack to get an extra 6" of Move, or to let them re-roll one or both dice on the Charge (which is what Fleet does). I was talking about that, and just calling it Fleet because that's essentially what it is. If I meant a Waaagh!! Fleet, I'd have said WAAAAGH!!

*slap*

 Bonzofever wrote:
I'm really sorry to bring this once again, but I have a question about LOS for Nob Bikerz + Warboss. I understand now the HQ is immune to ID thanks to its permanent T6, and that he'll soak up enemy fire as long as he is first in line. I also get that Nob Bikerz can LOS on 2+ for him and that the Warboss toughness is used instead of the nobz'. BUT I'd like to know if a Nob LOSing on the T6 Warboss can be instant-killed by a S10 weapon - e.g. IG's Manticores. Does he take a single wound since the shot was aimed at a T6 model, or does the Nob own tougness prevails on LOS?

... Duh, is this crystal clear?

Thanks in advance!

Re-read instant rules. If the wound is caused by a weapon with 2xT he is death. So yes if a Nob suffers a S10 unsaved wound he gets Instant killed

Anvildude wrote:
Again, re-explaining. Regular Jump Infantry can either use their Jump Pack to get an extra 6" of Move, or to let them re-roll one or both dice on the Charge (which is what Fleet does). I was talking about that, and just calling it Fleet because that's essentially what it is. If I meant a Waaagh!! Fleet, I'd have said WAAAAGH!!

*slap*

Ya, I was responding to the "they lost the Waaagh! rule" part. They merely removed it from multiple units to prevent confusion.

 Bacms wrote:
Re-read instant rules. If the wound is caused by a weapon with 2xT he is death. So yes if a Nob suffers a S10 unsaved wound he gets Instant killed

Thanks. So that means Manticores still are the best choice for IG to take down a Nob Bikerz squad easily...

 Bonzofever wrote:

 Bacms wrote:
Re-read instant rules. If the wound is caused by a weapon with 2xT he is death. So yes if a Nob suffers a S10 unsaved wound he gets Instant killed

Thanks. So that means Manticores still are the best choice for IG to take down a Nob Bikerz squad easily...

Why wouldn't the boss just take the hits and then roll 4 plus cover to ignore and then feel no pain?

Because the maticore is barrage, and he would have to succeed a bunch of 4+ LoS! rolls first. You must allocate to the models near the hole(s) first.

Manticores instant death anything bar the nob and due to it being barrage it counts as closest to the whole on the template. Your warboss may be the fourth or third closest so you cant rely on it, hence 4+ perm cover and a painboy to deal with it. One wound gets through and you lose a biker, if you're against 3 manticores then you have a big problem.

I took an incredibly shooty list Sunday against some Nids. And Im still floored at just how impressive Ork shooting can be in 6th. Good lord, I honestly only assaulted 2 units the whole game, the rest I would walk backwards to try and get more shooting in, and then overwatch once assaulted. Im just super giddy with 6th right now. I thought Ork shooting was good in 5th, its soooo much more powerful now.

Ah man, with the local national tournament coming up quickly - I really need to decide which flier to take as my Dakka Jet's wingman.

Modeling issues aside, in a pure rules perspective, can anyone express their experiences with the Dakka Jet and Burna Bomma, and suggest which would make a better partner for an already present Dakka Jet? (man, sounds like I'm trying to set my Dakka Jet up...)

I'm fully aware that the Burna Bomma looks to be devestating against half of the races in the game, but generally not impressive against the other half (3+ save models, etc), while the Dakka Jet is a really good all rounder. (and 35pts cheaper, considering the price I'm looking to run the Burna Bomma).

The list, as it stands, already has two units of Lootas (one of which inside a Battlewagon) and Kanz with Grotzookas, so there's a mix of high str fire and general anti-infantry slaughter already present.

I'd take a dakkajet if your meta is anything like the average (3+ everywhere, precious few xenos) one i've seen at tournaments.

Our local meta is actually swinging heaviliy towards xenos. A year ago it was almost all Marines, but something about 6th has had people dusting off their alternate armies, or starting new xeno ones...

If you are xeno-heavy run a Burnabomma

I'd go Dakkajet myself. More versatile, a tad cheaper and able to take on fliers so your lootaz can focus on targets on the ground.

 KingCracker wrote:
I took an incredibly shooty list Sunday against some Nids. And Im still floored at just how impressive Ork shooting can be in 6th. Good lord, I honestly only assaulted 2 units the whole game, the rest I would walk backwards to try and get more shooting in, and then overwatch once assaulted. Im just super giddy with 6th right now. I thought Ork shooting was good in 5th, its soooo much more powerful now.

Good young one... good soon the dakka dakka fever shall set in... and wait till the dakka fortress

Sorry to bother you again people, but I read somewhere that Hellhounds did not cancel the inv. save of ork bikerz. Is this true? and why?
Thankies.

 Bonzofever wrote:
Sorry to bother you again people, but I read somewhere that Hellhounds did not cancel the inv. save of ork bikerz. Is this true? and why?
Thankies.

Nothing cancels inv saves it represents something magical or "invulnerable" about the squad. They use to but to my knowledge nothing removes inv saves now and days

Hellhounds fire template weapons which ignore cover saves. Bikes always have a 4+ cover save unless they're hit by template weapons or things that ignore cover. Cover save != invulnerable save.

So that means Hellhounds *do* hurt biker mobs. I was skeptical about them getting 4+ anyway....
Gee, I was so thrilled about this. Hellhounds being S5 AP4, the only thing that remains is the FNP rule for nob bikerz with a doc.
Thanks for your answer!

 Bonzofever wrote:
So that means Hellhounds *do* hurt biker mobs. I was skeptical about them getting 4+ anyway....
Gee, I was so thrilled about this. Hellhounds being S5 AP4, the only thing that remains is the FNP rule for nob bikerz with a doc.
Thanks for your answer!

well if you take cybork bodies you'd be getting a 5+ cybork save and then get a 5+ FNP on your failed rolls. so really a 5++ against those ap4 barrage (barring s10 ones)... which is mo' betta than just one 5+ i'd say

skyfi wrote:

 Bonzofever wrote:
So that means Hellhounds *do* hurt biker mobs. I was skeptical about them getting 4+ anyway....
Gee, I was so thrilled about this. Hellhounds being S5 AP4, the only thing that remains is the FNP rule for nob bikerz with a doc.
Thanks for your answer!

well if you take cybork bodies you'd be getting a 5+ cybork save and then get a 5+ FNP on your failed rolls. so really a 5++ against those ap4 barrage (barring s10 ones)... which is mo' betta than just one 5+ i'd say

correct there is no way to remove 2 saves from ork nob bikers unless it is AP 4+, cuts cover and strength 10 then it would ONLY be the Invul save.

Do Hellhounds ignore jink too?

If it ignores cover, it ignores Jink.

 Ascalam wrote:
If it ignores cover, it ignores Jink.

Confirmed.

Ork FAQ 1.1 is out and has some real impact on the current 6th ed. Ork play. Clarifies some of the muddier ideas Ork players were trying to use, and buffs a few others. I'll be updating the OP with this info as I read it. Please feel free to point out things you have noticed in the Rule Book FAQ and the Ork FAQ.

 matphat wrote:
Ork FAQ 1.1 is out and has some real impact on the current 6th ed. Ork play. Clarifies some of the muddier ideas Ork players were trying to use, and buffs a few others. I'll be updating the OP with this info as I read it. Please feel free to point out things you have noticed in the Rule Book FAQ and the Ork FAQ.

No fun orky equipment to use against fliers, nor flying squigs.


but, they said nothing about allies in the brb faq, nor about mad dok in the ork faq to disallow the dok for cyborking up his allies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and what kind of horrid logic does it take to allow a cover save against a deff rolla?

It bounces on a rock?

Well I was running a squad of 5 nob bikers before and they worked really well, however it really required the wound allocation to keep them alive for longer(and not taking morale tests) Now more than ever a babysitter is required. Also what size is everyone thinking of taking them at. I was thinking of bumping them up to 7 or 8.

Thinking something like this

Pain boy
2x naked
2x choppa
2x claw
1x choppa/banner
Cybork
Bikes
480 points

 matphat wrote:
Ork FAQ 1.1 is out and has some real impact on the current 6th ed. Ork play. Clarifies some of the muddier ideas Ork players were trying to use, and buffs a few others. I'll be updating the OP with this info as I read it. Please feel free to point out things you have noticed in the Rule Book FAQ and the Ork FAQ.

Looks like Ghazghull's waaagh was tweaked to allow relentless instead of slow and purposeful, at least better than it was.. i love the meganobz!

I can only see one benefit to "Relentless" in place of S & P during Ghaz's Waaagh!

A unit of Lootas will be able to shoot and charge in the same turn. Otherwise I can't see the reason for Relentless. Almost all weapons are assault weapons, and we don't have handheld ordnance weapons, and as far as I know loota's are the only handheld Heavy weapons in the whole book.

Unless anyone can see any other use, I still feel Ghaz is still useless (however we did get fearless back so that's ok), and Orks got Nerfed in this update..... again.

mrfantastical wrote:
I can only see one benefit to "Relentless" in place of S & P during Ghaz's Waaagh!

A unit of Lootas will be able to shoot and charge in the same turn. Otherwise I can't see the reason for Relentless. Almost all weapons are assault weapons, and we don't have handheld ordnance weapons, and as far as I know loota's are the only handheld Heavy weapons in the whole book.

Unless anyone can see any other use, I still feel Ghaz is still useless (however we did get fearless back so that's ok), and Orks got Nerfed in this update..... again.

Nah i see the purpose, meganobz can actually shoot if they miss the charge distance with overwatch now. Same with megabosses joined with units it was a discouraging thing I had thought about wanting to do then decided best not to because overwatch is so critical... Now it might be worth it. Still Ghazzy's charge is weak but meh.

As far as being nerfed i don't think so they just removed hte cheese we were producing from stupidity.

All i know is that it really hurts my nob squad in a battlewagon that i was running. which is a shame, because I loved my nobs.

Starting to look more and more like biker nobs or nothing :/

I have to agree with the nerfing opinion.
I feel like we got hit a bit.
But nothing really surprising.
I don't expect Orks to be anything other than a fun army till the new dex is out, and even then, we might not become FotM.

also, hellhounds are S6, ap 4 with the inferno cannon, not S 5

Lootas are not slow and purposeful and do not exchange slow and purposeful for relentless. It is very clear cut.

I am very glad that they CLARIFIED bomb squigs and grabbin' klaws as those were atrociously against RAI.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You can put Bikes inside Vehicles now.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
All i know is that it really hurts my nob squad in a battlewagon that i was running. which is a shame, because I loved my nobs.

Starting to look more and more like biker nobs or nothing :/

did anyone notice the BRB faq here for nobz and nob bikers we aren't all characters now. only leaders of squads are. take a look

Designers Note: Wolf Guard, Nobz, Nobz Warbikers, and Crisis
Shas’vre that lead a unit (for example an Ork Nob leading Ork
Boyz, a Wolf Guard leading Grey Hunters) have the unit type
Infantry (Character).

So it now works like this

Nob Warbiker Squad - 1 character or none?
Boyz squad /w Nob - 1 character
other squads /w Nob - I character

 Amaya wrote:
Designers Note: Wolf Guard, Nobz, Nobz Warbikers, and Crisis
Shas’vre that lead a unit (for example an Ork Nob leading Ork
Boyz, a Wolf Guard leading Grey Hunters) have the unit type
Infantry (Character).

So it now works like this

Nob Warbiker Squad - 1 character or none?
Boyz squad /w Nob - 1 character
other squads /w Nob - I character

I think it means Nob squads = no characters
Boyz with 1 nob = 1 character
Other squads with 1 nob = 1 character

What other squad besides boyz can upgrade a nob?
None that I know of.

Seriously? Um, nearly every squad can...

Kommandos
Stormboyz
Warbikerz
Flash Gitz (if you count the Kaptin)
Tankhuntas

Gah, sorry, I should have clarified, I more or less consider all of those boyz of varying flavors.

So MANZ still have no characters?

Do bikes take up 3 slots in a transport?

and it sounds like there is confusion still as to the leader of biker nobs/foot nobs is a character or not? Is the painboy still a character?

It sounds like Nob mobs have no characters other than the possibility of a painboy?
And yes, I was also wondering if the bulky rule added to bikers means we are expected to put them in battle wagons now?

skyfi wrote:
So MANZ still have no characters?

Do bikes take up 3 slots in a transport?

and it sounds like there is confusion still as to the leader of biker nobs/foot nobs is a character or not? Is the painboy still a character?

not sure why they clarified that... i looked it over and transports are VERY CLEARLY stated as just infantry... however i smell something in the future for this one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 matphat wrote:
It sounds like Nob mobs have no characters other than the possibility of a painboy?

it's what it sounds like according to this entry for the FAQ. Honestly if it gets them to stop bitching I don't mind, we needed LOS to get nerfed since pallies got it and wolf guard too I really don't care now. The only one that scares me is AP2 demon weapons striking on init. and still classified as a charater I am speaking of terminators and chaos lords of course...

Hoping Pallies and such are similarly 'nerfed'.

Also, so very, very sad that they FAQ'd against Grabbin' Klaws and Wrekkin' Balls working on Fliers. Would that really have been so bad?

Anvildude wrote:
Hoping Pallies and such are similarly 'nerfed'.

Also, so very, very sad that they FAQ'd against Grabbin' Klaws and Wrekkin' Balls working on Fliers. Would that really have been so bad?

they did, and ... in all honesty we will get something similar in the future I imagine until then we have a dream ... and orks always make their dreams come true