Da Big Nob Zotrag howled with glee as his Battlewagon, Da Squigkrusha, krumped a Space Marine Land Raider. With a cavernous cackle he gestured towards a pack of 'umies with big guns scrambling away from the burning debris. The driver bellowed his confirmation and violently spun the steering wheel as he bore down on the tin boyz. Suddenly, the spinning deff rolla shot up from the ground rearing the entire wagon into what must have been a hilarious wheelie. The wagon crashed down seconds afterwards, immobilized on the spot. Zotrag leapt out in a rage and rushed forward to see what had dared stop him smashing more 'umies into a sickly salmon sauce. Inches in front of the massive death rolla was a smattering of poorly painted pebbles and half arsed tree. Zotrag reared his neck back and cursed the poorly place plants that had pacified his petulance pride.
Anyone else feeling we are an army where AP and cover is amazingly against us...? just saying i feel like unless prone to failures like 5+ cover or armor it stops the ferocity of our attacks way to easy...
Big Mek Wurrzog wrote: Anyone else feeling we are an army where AP and cover is amazingly against us...? just saying i feel like unless prone to failures like 5+ cover or armor it stops the ferocity of our attacks way to easy...
Absolutely. Armour saves became a lot more valuable in 6th, which means AP weaponry became a lot more valuable. Orkz tend to be lacking greatly in both of these departments. It's one of the many changes that 6th edition brought that have severely reduced the viability of the Ork Codex.
Warphead Weirdboys should be used to target MEQs/TEQs or Light Armor. Used as such they come out to roughly BS4 (odds of getting a useful spell against that).
Zzap Gunz make good Terminator killers. You have a 33/36 chance to be wounding on at least 4+ and a solid chance to be wounding on 2+.
I wouldn't use them to try to punch through vehicles, but they certainly have a use.
To be honest, RaW, you could always get cover saves from anything that was NOT a close combat attack, or did NOT specifically state it ignored cover.
Same as 5th, really.
So you could always take cover saves from the Deffrolla - though suggesting such would often lead to a very upset opponent. It has now been clarified, at least.
Still not sure I understand the change in regards to Nobs and Characters, though. Wait, I think I got it...
I just converted a SAG mek last night for some big ol AP2 pie plates. Agreed with our sever lack of AP3 weapons. Sure we can spam feth rokkits, but out BS2 pretty much makes them a waste of points. I used to spam rokkits everywhere, and yea the sound of 15+ rokkits a turn is nice, but in practice, most of those miss. Its sad that a Bigshoota has a better chance of killing MEQ then a friggin rokkit. Oh well, adapt and move on I guess. Ive got a fairly big game going on today, so heres hoping I kill me some Imperial sissies!
Kharrak wrote: To be honest, RaW, you could always get cover saves from anything that was NOT a close combat attack, or did NOT specifically state it ignored cover.
Same as 5th, really.
So you could always take cover saves from the Deffrolla - though suggesting such would often lead to a very upset opponent. It has now been clarified, at least.
Still not sure I understand the change in regards to Nobs and Characters, though. Wait, I think I got it...
does this mean all death of glories i could take a KFF save...?
Amaya wrote: Da Big Nob Zotrag howled with glee as his Battlewagon, Da Squigkrusha, krumped a Space Marine Land Raider. With a cavernous cackle he gestured towards a pack of 'umies with big guns scrambling away from the burning debris. The driver bellowed his confirmation and violently spun the steering wheel as he bore down on the tin boyz. Suddenly, the spinning deff rolla shot up from the ground rearing the entire wagon into what must have been a hilarious wheelie. The wagon crashed down seconds afterwards, immobilized on the spot. Zotrag leapt out in a rage and rushed forward to see what had dared stop him smashing more 'umies into a sickly salmon sauce. Inches in front of the massive death rolla was a smattering of poorly painted pebbles and half arsed tree. Zotrag reared his neck back and cursed the poorly place plants that had pacified his petulance pride.
that is one nice thing I'll give to Warhammer fantasy... the armor degradation made sense to me in it. I understand in 40 with SO MANY GUNS you can't really do that especially since everything comes with an AP but what about CC? Make it something like CC weapons that are beyond the confines of S4 (in other words 5+) start to degrade armor i mean MC's are already the height of this BSery as is why not award BC some dangerous nature?
strength 5 = 1 worse on armor saves
strength 7= 2 worse on armor saves
Strength 9 = 3 worse on armor saves
*** again the idea would be for typical CC weapons that aren't power weapons, force weapons ect. ***
I'm not going to lie, I do well with my Orks.
That is until I go up against anyone with a competitive army build, and then I just get stomped. Closing to firing range on these new deployments, and trying to match fire with armies who don't need cover, have excellent range, great AP, lots of fire flexibility, and a good BS with under costed models can be a real chore.
And a chore is not what "playing" is supposed to be.
I am going to try putting Wazdakka and a couple bikes in a battlewagon. 7" + 12" + 2D6 means that a turn 1 combat is possible again! Of course they will probably die immediately afterwards, but still. Unless is misunderstood.
Oh man am I on top of the world tonight. Just got back from playing a 1k point match, trying out my newly constructed SAG mek. My list
SAG Mek w/ cybork and ammo runt
3 - 20x shootaboyz w/2big shootas (1 on nob) and a BP Big Choppa on the nobz
2 - x5 lootas
11 burnas/1mek in
x4 bigshoota battle wagon, riggors, kannon
And the SM player had something like
1 full tactical w/missile launcher
1 big ol blob of scouts w/sniper rifles
1 ironclad
1 riflemen dred
1 venerable w/plasmacannon and missile launcher
Master of the forge w/conversion beamer.
I think that was it.
My burnaz never even left the wagon. SAG smoked the venerable and immobolized the riflemen, hilariously behind cover so could only shoot at a blob of boyz and then pie plated the tactical leaving only 2 left before dying. I shot his MoF to death, stripped the riflemen down to 1 hullpoint and tied the ironclad in combat for 3 turns. It was awesome. He only killed my BigMek. Good grief the Imperium is going to be pissed
Dakkajet with extra TL Supa Shoota and Fighta Ace - 130 points
Dakkajet with extra TL Supa Shoota and Fighta Ace - 130 points
Dakkajet with extra TL Supa Shoota and Fighta Ace - 130 points
3 Kannons with 6 extra Grots - 78 points
3 Kannons with 6 extra Grots - 78 points
3 Kannons with 6 extra Grots - 78 points
Dakkajet with extra TL Supa Shoota and Fighta Ace - 130 points
Dakkajet with extra TL Supa Shoota and Fighta Ace - 130 points
Dakkajet with extra TL Supa Shoota and Fighta Ace - 130 points
3 Kannons with 6 extra Grots - 78 points
3 Kannons with 6 extra Grots - 78 points
3 Kannons with 6 extra Grots - 78 points
Aegis Defense Line - 50 points
1999 points
I've played that exact list, and it does well. Just be aware that any army with lots of plates are going to make you have a seriously bad day.
After playing last night, Trukks still work great. The main issue I'm having is against those damned AV12 fliers, as well as that accursed Fortress of Redemption. Still, I fluffed some important rolls, and learned again that I need more troops to hang back (ie, I'll be investing in some grots) - and my opponent accidently assumed GK and IG were battle brothers.
Not to mention my jaw dropping upon learning that the Stormraven (not just the Blood Angels one) can drop any unit even if it has moved more than 6".
That aside - I'm still unsure how Look Out Sir has changed (if at all) beyond certain things. I know the following:
*ONLY squad leaders can look out sir. Nob Squads by themselves can no longer Look Out Sir.
*Look Out Sir must be directed to the nearest model, preventing wound allocation shenanigans.
Beyond that, I see that this note: "Delete “(or unsaved Wounds)” from the first paragraph.". How has this changed things, if at all?
Dakkajet with extra TL Supa Shoota and Fighta Ace - 130 points
Dakkajet with extra TL Supa Shoota and Fighta Ace - 130 points
Dakkajet with extra TL Supa Shoota and Fighta Ace - 130 points
3 Kannons with 6 extra Grots - 78 points
3 Kannons with 6 extra Grots - 78 points
3 Kannons with 6 extra Grots - 78 points
Aegis Defense Line - 50 points
1999 points
I've played that exact list, and it does well. Just be aware that any army with lots of plates are going to make you have a seriously bad day.
Oh yea, that would be some real brutal shooting phases for you. Just make sure, you spread those boyz to that 2 inch max and that alone can take the sting out of templates, specially when you can ignore 1/3 of the shots from the KFF. Thats probably one of the most important parts of playing a horde Ork force, stretch them out, because if you go lazy on it even once, you WILL pay for it
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Kharrak wrote: After playing last night, Trukks still work great. The main issue I'm having is against those damned AV12 fliers, as well as that accursed Fortress of Redemption. Still, I fluffed some important rolls, and learned again that I need more troops to hang back (ie, I'll be investing in some grots) - and my opponent accidently assumed GK and IG were battle brothers.
Not to mention my jaw dropping upon learning that the Stormraven (not just the Blood Angels one) can drop any unit even if it has moved more than 6".
That aside - I'm still unsure how Look Out Sir has changed (if at all) beyond certain things. I know the following:
*ONLY squad leaders can look out sir. Nob Squads by themselves can no longer Look Out Sir.
*Look Out Sir must be directed to the nearest model, preventing wound allocation shenanigans.
Beyond that, I see that this note: "Delete “(or unsaved Wounds)” from the first paragraph.". How has this changed things, if at all?
Yea we are going to struggle a bit until we get a new dex, or at least a WD with some vehicles in it. OR you can get yourself a flakktrukk or 3 as they are heavy support. They come with skyfire rule, so you could laugh at those fliers with a squadron of those. I started building one, but no one in our group has fliers yet....well they have them, but they arnt build so same result. Speaking of, I need to get off my rump and make some dag on DAKKAjets
KingCracker wrote: Yea we are going to struggle a bit until we get a new dex, or at least a WD with some vehicles in it. OR you can get yourself a flakktrukk or 3 as they are heavy support. They come with skyfire rule, so you could laugh at those fliers with a squadron of those. I started building one, but no one in our group has fliers yet....well they have them, but they arnt build so same result. Speaking of, I need to get off my rump and make some dag on DAKKAjets
Honestly, it was just their armour 12 that was the issue. I had two large-ish units of Lootas (who rolled poorly, unfortunately), and two Dakkajets - I wasn't lacking in anti-air - just didn't have high strength weapons to actually kill the flying metal tanky bastards. And dropping a unit of 5 termies with a flamer to roast my guys holding my back point was just rude.
Gork and Mork wrote: Is anybody gonna make an ork 6th edition tactica? Just asking.
I talked to Voodoo and he gave me permission to dig in to the old Tactica and make a bunch of 6th Ed changes, but I haven't felt confident enough to start in on it yet.
I feel like the jury is still out based on the fact that the edition is still so new, and so much is changing with the addition of FAQs and new codices.
I'd be happy to get it started though, if people think it's ready for the overhaul.
Gork and Mork wrote: Is anybody gonna make an ork 6th edition tactica? Just asking.
*looks at thread title, looks at comment*
Hmm, I dunno
ya this is pretty much the blueprint for a tactica.
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DakkaHammer wrote: I am going to try putting Wazdakka and a couple bikes in a battlewagon. 7" + 12" + 2D6 means that a turn 1 combat is possible again! Of course they will probably die immediately afterwards, but still. Unless is misunderstood.
So help me out, how are nob bikers allowed to ride in a battle wagon?
Dr. What wrote: They're very bulky, which means they can now go in transports, but take up more slots.
But they're not infantry... I thought only infantry were allowed in BW. ???
Nope, it just says it's got a transport capacity of 20 models. Any variant of Bulky simply makes that model take up more than 1 of those model slots. (Like Meganobz take up 2 slots).
Only some transports, like the Necron Ghost Ark specifically say what can and cannot ride inside.
Dr. What wrote: They're very bulky, which means they can now go in transports, but take up more slots.
But they're not infantry... I thought only infantry were allowed in BW. ???
Nope, it just says it's got a transport capacity of 20 models. Any variant of Bulky simply makes that model take up more than 1 of those model slots. (Like Meganobz take up 2 slots).
Only some transports, like the Necron Ghost Ark specifically say what can and cannot ride inside.
Incorrect, Main rulebook states Infantry models are the only things allowed in transports BW or not the declaration is a mystery to us all at this time but I imagine something in the near future might explain this.
TedNugent wrote: "Cover saves may be taken against the Deff Rolla."
What? How? It's a giant spinning roller wheel of death. It's designed for the purpose of destroying obstacles, and they're telling me you can take cover saves against that? Lol.
Billy the intern was allowed to write the FAQ it seems...
Been going threw some of the other FAQs. We lost some cheese but so did some of the other xenos armies... big surprise right... but here is one of note -
Q: Do Dark Eldar allies count as Eldar for the Farseer psychic
powers Fortune and Guide? (p28)
A: No.
Not sure if anyone has had many problems with Dark Harlestar lists but that helps a little
Last I checked in the FAQ, Nob bikers at least are infantry now. Reason why is they changed their entry when they removed the character.
It's on page 2, here's the entry word for word
"Wolf Guard, Nobz, Nobz Warbikerz, and Crisis Shas'Vre that lead a unit (for example an Ork Nob leading Ork Boyz, A wolf Guard leading Grey Hunters) Have the unit type "infantry, Character"
So at the very least, a nob leading warbikerz should be able to board correct? Also, if I remember right, Warbikerz and Nobz Warbikerz are both listed as "infantry, bikes" in the back of the 6th ed book.
If this was true, then yes, I guess you really could load them up, if you decided you cared about that I guess you can hide them in a battlewagon or something to protect them from shooting now.
Dr. What wrote: They're very bulky, which means they can now go in transports, but take up more slots.
But they're not infantry... I thought only infantry were allowed in BW. ???
Nope, it just says it's got a transport capacity of 20 models. Any variant of Bulky simply makes that model take up more than 1 of those model slots. (Like Meganobz take up 2 slots).
Only some transports, like the Necron Ghost Ark specifically say what can and cannot ride inside.
Incorrect, Main rulebook states Infantry models are the only things allowed in transports BW or not the declaration is a mystery to us all at this time but I imagine something in the near future might explain this.
Right, only infantry can embark on transports unless explicitly stated otherwise (for example, Jump Infantry is allowed on a Storm Raven).
However, super-heavy transports can transport any kind of non-vehicle model and walkers. When looking at the table for apoc, bikes take up exactly as much room as a very bulky model. I don't think there is any more than this to the update.
keltikhoa wrote: Been going threw some of the other FAQs. We lost some cheese but so did some of the other xenos armies... big surprise right... but here is one of note -
Q: Do Dark Eldar allies count as Eldar for the Farseer psychic
powers Fortune and Guide? (p28)
A: No.
Not sure if anyone has had many problems with Dark Harlestar lists but that helps a little
would you believe they are still trying to say it works? lol bending the rules still no matter what GW says... i laughed when they tried to abuse power weapons for howling banshees and I'll laugh again when they try this one with me as well.
schadenfreude wrote: Nob bikers in a red paint job transport would have a 19 + 2d6" threats range on their charge.
Wait. They can only get out if the vehicle moved 7". Plus a 6" disembark move. Plus 2D6" charge. How is that any different to boyz?
7" for the vehicle's movement + the size of the bike (length, so let's say 2"), that's 2" more, + 12" of a regular move + 2D6.
21 +SD6"
Hold on there. Passengers disembarking have to end with the ENTIRETY of their base (not just the back) within 6" of the vehicle's hull. That is their "regular movement". Then they get to charge 2D6".
It's exactly the same as any other unit disembarking. The speed of the bikes doesn't come into play here, since you are still restricted by the 6" disembarking range.
schadenfreude wrote: Nob bikers in a red paint job transport would have a 19 + 2d6" threats range on their charge.
Wait. They can only get out if the vehicle moved 7". Plus a 6" disembark move. Plus 2D6" charge. How is that any different to boyz?
7" for the vehicle's movement + the size of the bike (length, so let's say 2"), that's 2" more, + 12" of a regular move + 2D6.
21 +SD6"
Hold on there. Passengers disembarking have to end with the ENTIRETY of their base (not just the back) within 6" of the vehicle's hull. That is their "regular movement". Then they get to charge 2D6".
It's exactly the same as any other unit disembarking. The speed of the bikes doesn't come into play here, since you are still restricted by the 6" disembarking range.
Im agreeing with this completely. I dont see how you can obviously cheat by pulling a move like that. Its pretty black and white in the rules on how to disembark from a transport
Yup, models must be completely within 6" when disembarking (3" for emergency disembark).
keltikhoa wrote: Been going threw some of the other FAQs. We lost some cheese but so did some of the other xenos armies... big surprise right... but here is one of note -
Q: Do Dark Eldar allies count as Eldar for the Farseer psychic
powers Fortune and Guide? (p28)
A: No.
Not sure if anyone has had many problems with Dark Harlestar lists but that helps a little
I haven't played a game of 6th Edition yet sadly, and I don't see any specific info up there about the effect of battlewagons.
They still good? I'm a bit of a fluff player but I still like to know if a model is going to make me lose or not. I'm planning on doing a MANz list even if bikes are apparently king this edition.
So are regular warbikers any good this edition? I'm looking to make a biker army, or at least one that uses a good amount of them, and was hoping they're still pretty good in 6th.
Sovspot wrote:I haven't played a game of 6th Edition yet sadly, and I don't see any specific info up there about the effect of battlewagons.
They still good? I'm a bit of a fluff player but I still like to know if a model is going to make me lose or not. I'm planning on doing a MANz list even if bikes are apparently king this edition.
While they are less likely to survive till the end of the game (as all vehicles are now), they are much more reliable at delivering your boyz during turn two or three. In my book, that's better than before.
Sovspot wrote: I haven't played a game of 6th Edition yet sadly, and I don't see any specific info up there about the effect of battlewagons.
They still good? I'm a bit of a fluff player but I still like to know if a model is going to make me lose or not. I'm planning on doing a MANz list even if bikes are apparently king this edition.
Depends what you want them to do. One big change is that unit like marines with krak grenades will pop it in cc pretty damn easy now. If you just want it to transport and then you don't care that's fine but if you want it to hang around and do stuff you need to keep that in mind with how you move it around the board. Another thing is if it explodes it's no longer st3 but 4 which is a big difference for light armor unit's probably won't hurt MANZ much but boys or burnas will suffer. Lootas can sit in one now and snap shot on the move which is nice. Also you can load it out with lots of shootas or ML's and snap shot them all on the move but it's allot of points in something not to hard to take out.
Wagons as delivery platforms are probably better than before as a you need four glances to halt it, rather than a single lucky roll. Against non-AP 1/2 weapons they are more survivable against side/rear shots.
Support wagons (loota wagons or FW variants) probably do better because they aren't getting close to the front; the opponent will have to come to them more.
Where things are a little bit shaky is things like the burna wagon. This generally relies on the vehicle surviving most of the game at the front lines. HPs make this a dangerous thing to attempt.
MrMoustaffa wrote: So are regular warbikers any good this edition? I'm looking to make a biker army, or at least one that uses a good amount of them, and was hoping they're still pretty good in 6th.
Anyone have any experience with them yet?
I only know from using the Warboss and deffkoptas with him as a unit, but really statline wise, Koptas are pretty similar to bikes, the only real difference is they are +1W and their shots have longer range. But I can say, if your using them to shoot the hell out of things their shooting is pretty impressive. Having TL bigshootas(the DAKKAgun is that but with a shorter range) really can clobber a unit, even MEQs drop from the shots. So as a shooting platform they are pretty nice, though personally I like using Koptas for that instead as the extra range and 2wounds is worth the +10pts IMO.
As far as assaults and wounding goes. Its nice having them be T5 I can tell ya, that just makes anything str5 or less struggle to wound, and anything NOT str10 irritated (for koptas mind) So they can weather a pretty impressive amount of shots, and the 4+ cover save is obviously another thing to make them tougher. In assault, again str4 and under struggle, but this is where they are weakest, because they still die like boyz, and all those extra points really start hurting. So Id say use them as a mobile fire base and only assault if its a last ditch effort. Id personally let units assault them if possible because TL weapons are the tits for snapfire.
So Id say, run them, see how they work for ya. Because in 5th, I almost never ran koptas. In 6th, Ive played only 2 games without them, their shooting potential is just badass.
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Dribble Joy wrote: Wagons as delivery platforms are probably better than before as a you need four glances to halt it, rather than a single lucky roll. Against non-AP 1/2 weapons they are more survivable against side/rear shots.
Support wagons (loota wagons or FW variants) probably do better because they aren't getting close to the front; the opponent will have to come to them more.
Where things are a little bit shaky is things like the burna wagon. This generally relies on the vehicle surviving most of the game at the front lines. HPs make this a dangerous thing to attempt.
Ill agree with this. Ive been running a burna wagon lately and I do get nervous once Im about to close in for the burninating. Its still a very potent tactic, but I have played a game where the wagon went up in flames right before they got to the intended target. So now more then ever, be aware of what your moving that wagon to.
Sovspot wrote:I haven't played a game of 6th Edition yet sadly, and I don't see any specific info up there about the effect of battlewagons.
They still good? I'm a bit of a fluff player but I still like to know if a model is going to make me lose or not. I'm planning on doing a MANz list even if bikes are apparently king this edition.
While they are less likely to survive till the end of the game (as all vehicles are now), they are much more reliable at delivering your boyz during turn two or three. In my book, that's better than before.
Which is basically all I did in 5th edition. Except now from what I understand is that battlewagons can flat out too, correct?
pepe5454 wrote:
Sovspot wrote: I haven't played a game of 6th Edition yet sadly, and I don't see any specific info up there about the effect of battlewagons.
They still good? I'm a bit of a fluff player but I still like to know if a model is going to make me lose or not. I'm planning on doing a MANz list even if bikes are apparently king this edition.
Depends what you want them to do. One big change is that unit like marines with krak grenades will pop it in cc pretty damn easy now. If you just want it to transport and then you don't care that's fine but if you want it to hang around and do stuff you need to keep that in mind with how you move it around the board. Another thing is if it explodes it's no longer st3 but 4 which is a big difference for light armor unit's probably won't hurt MANZ much but boys or burnas will suffer. Lootas can sit in one now and snap shot on the move which is nice. Also you can load it out with lots of shootas or ML's and snap shot them all on the move but it's allot of points in something not to hard to take out.
As I said, all I did was rush up the board and disembark. If the battlewagons survived I would them deff rolla things if they haven't done so already. Anyway, from what you two tell me I think I will be fine. With lootas, do they have advantages over the Dakkajet? Other than st7 anyway.
Going to try getting my kommando horde to work next 2k game I play. 3x15 kommandos, bp,pk nob in each, along with 2 rokkits each. Just hope there's some suitable piece of terrain within 7" of the boatd edge they can hunker down in when they arrive. Will also try a 5 rokkitkopta formation to help bring down any vehicle my 2 dakkajets have trouble with. Condidering to throw a saw in there just in case...
Sovspot wrote:I haven't played a game of 6th Edition yet sadly, and I don't see any specific info up there about the effect of battlewagons.
They still good? I'm a bit of a fluff player but I still like to know if a model is going to make me lose or not. I'm planning on doing a MANz list even if bikes are apparently king this edition.
While they are less likely to survive till the end of the game (as all vehicles are now), they are much more reliable at delivering your boyz during turn two or three. In my book, that's better than before.
Which is basically all I did in 5th edition. Except now from what I understand is that battlewagons can flat out too, correct?
Correct, but you can't move more than 6" or attempt a ram when you want to disembark on the same turn, so it kind of evens out. Moving 18" twice works wonders if your opponent is castling up in a corner when playing one of the new deployments though.
Sovspot wrote:I haven't played a game of 6th Edition yet sadly, and I don't see any specific info up there about the effect of battlewagons.
They still good? I'm a bit of a fluff player but I still like to know if a model is going to make me lose or not. I'm planning on doing a MANz list even if bikes are apparently king this edition.
While they are less likely to survive till the end of the game (as all vehicles are now), they are much more reliable at delivering your boyz during turn two or three. In my book, that's better than before.
Which is basically all I did in 5th edition. Except now from what I understand is that battlewagons can flat out too, correct?
pepe5454 wrote:
Sovspot wrote: I haven't played a game of 6th Edition yet sadly, and I don't see any specific info up there about the effect of battlewagons.
They still good? I'm a bit of a fluff player but I still like to know if a model is going to make me lose or not. I'm planning on doing a MANz list even if bikes are apparently king this edition.
Depends what you want them to do. One big change is that unit like marines with krak grenades will pop it in cc pretty damn easy now. If you just want it to transport and then you don't care that's fine but if you want it to hang around and do stuff you need to keep that in mind with how you move it around the board. Another thing is if it explodes it's no longer st3 but 4 which is a big difference for light armor unit's probably won't hurt MANZ much but boys or burnas will suffer. Lootas can sit in one now and snap shot on the move which is nice. Also you can load it out with lots of shootas or ML's and snap shot them all on the move but it's allot of points in something not to hard to take out.
As I said, all I did was rush up the board and disembark. If the battlewagons survived I would them deff rolla things if they haven't done so already. Anyway, from what you two tell me I think I will be fine. With lootas, do they have advantages over the Dakkajet? Other than st7 anyway.
Well besides the str 7 your lootas will be a little more durable and nice thing is you can turn a couple into mek's and keep adding hull points back on the wagon so it can be very hard to kill without and explodes result. Down side again though is if it does explode it's going to kill allot of your lootas. You probably don't want to move it much except to get a clear shot or avoid something charging the BW so your lootas don't always snap fire. If the BW does blow up from shooting your lootas that were in it now have cover at least =P Dakkajet is really nice as well but I always still take lootas to but not always in a wagon it was just another option I was throwing out there for you to use with your BW's
Ive played 2 games with burnas inside of a BW with 1 being a mek and riggors on it. And it must be my luck, but my opponents so far either glance it to death and its wrecked in 1 turn, OR they blow it up. So, so far, I havnt been able to repair any hull points
Bad Luck Would 6 trukks and 5 burnas in each be codex legal? I can't remember off the top of my head. If so i think that would be a solution to the battlewagons getting blitzed.
(Obviously 3 trukks and 5 if not double FOC, or 3 and 7 etc)
Actually, I do believe that (transport) looted wagons would be all over the place if they could be taken as dedicated transports. Those skorchas you can put on them are quite sexy.
The same way they have FlashGitz in HS annoys me. Our dex is truly a great dex, as time has shown, but there are still a couple things in it that leave me scratching my head. Id definitely use looted wagons for dedicated transports if I could stick the skorcha on them. Thatd be badass
Pretty much. Also, shooting black over golden marines, as 3+/FNP is no longer as good as 2+ armor. Getting a unit of boyz joined by a warboss in combat with the sanguine guard might also help, because only one of the PKs can be challenged.
Ayup. So either use the nob to take the challenge, and let the boss smash face, or let the boss suck up the wounds and the nob wreck face. You win either way
I love the idea of the looted wagon. I'm taking one to get a bunch of 'ard boyz into the grit, while I give their trukk to some burnas. I agree hardily that looted wagons should be allowed as transports... maybe just for elites (and flash glitz). I can understand not giving lootas and burnas their own ride tho... bit of an auto-deathstar there.
I remember playing in a tournament against an opponent with 15 sang guard, i had a big mek with SAG, and 2 10 man nob squads with big choppas all round as well as a load of other stuff. That was fun.
Turn one, 7 Sang get smashed by SAG template, their turn, they fall short of assaulting my nobz. My turn 2, 3 Sang and Gabriel Seth wiped by template from SAG. 20 Nobz smash the sanguinor and 5 sangs face He then conceded. Great game (Remember SAG is AP2 template, if you dont roll doubles but roll average its awesome, because its S6 AP2)
the_ferrett wrote: Quick query: All sang guard, death company BA list. Using a gunline and 6th, anything I should be careful about?
Are the BA backed up by a gunline if so what units? (I have been seeing IG gunlines with BA allies recently) or were you getting at that you play a gun line ork army?
In any case, shoot the DC to smither-reens. Like others have said 3+ and FNP < 2+... If you have MANZ, nob bikers, KMB's, flash gits etc those I would shoot at the sang guard. I feel like a unit of manz could probably do well against sang guard, and biker nobs probably more so with cybork/FNP... (assuming that sang guard weapons can be either S= user AP3 or S+2 AP2 unwieldly).. send your MANZ if ya got em @ the AP3 sword guard and bikes @ the ap2 axe/fist heavy squads? (Manz/PK bikers etc are nice vs DC as well because S x 2 > T disallowing FNP... just be wary of getting stuck in combat for multiple turns with them being fearless, I'd say don't charge them outright, only charge them to deprive them +2a charge after softening em up with lootas/shoota boys I'd say... if they are rolling around in a LR you might be able to bait them out for a juicy charge into the boyz (just be sure the boys are a good 20" from their LR with some cover between the 2 of you so they are trying to make a 8" charge on 3d6 picking lowest... sometimes enough to make them take bait, fail charge and die in open... and if not... they most likely wipe boys (if have a few DC at least with reclusiarch) if given the charge, then be standing out in the open on your turn to be shot to bits. IDK... just advice from my exp =]
If he is playing a DOA style/crossing field with jump packs list w/o transports and doesn't have a gun line, you won't really need to bring the fight to him as much (aside from sending some units to camp obj on his side/score linebreaker), as intercepting the units crossing board/killing them while protecting your loota's/kannons/looted wagon/ADL + quad gun+ grots gun line or what have you?
Just be wary of sending all your heavy hitters to his deployment zone if he is deep striking his DC/some sang guard. Don't want to leave your lootas and grots etc to be fed to wolves.
Looted wagons nice VS dc (s8 ap3 deny FNP), SAG big mek like others have suggested for sang guard
Yes, it wont ignore armor, but with that many shots the marines would lose FAR more to just failing saves then hitting with a couple rokkits. Sure a rokkit can KO a MEQ, but the problem is getting 1 rokkit to actually hit, compared to a handful of dice from guns that dont ignore armor. Do the math, or have someone do it, youll learn very quickly that bigshootas or anything better (IE Suppa shootas or deffguns) will bust MEQ teeth in better.
The Good Green wrote:I love the idea of the looted wagon. I'm taking one to get a bunch of 'ard boyz into the grit, while I give their trukk to some burnas. I agree hardily that looted wagons should be allowed as transports... maybe just for elites (and flash glitz). I can understand not giving lootas and burnas their own ride tho... bit of an auto-deathstar there.
Why? It's no more or less an auto-deathstar than Sternguard(or equivalent) in Rhino, Fire Dragons in a Wave Serpent or Ogryns in a Chimera. I don't see why orks shouldn't have that if everyone but orks can get dedicated transports for almost every single unit entry. It's not like the looted wagon is better than other default transports.
Orkaswampa wrote:2 Dakkajets on a waagh would mess up a 30 man death company squad as well as your average loota fire.
Lootaz are really terrible at killing MEQ though, even more so at killing FNPMEQ. Rather aim them at the sanguine guard, as those usually cost more points and so you kill more point on average then when aiming at the DC. Always depends on what either unit is doing at the moment though.
Using the Waagh! to counter-charge the DC is also a very good idea, as you deny them both FC and Rage that way.
Death Company are terrifying. First game 6th ed I encountered them, my had flamers, so my assaulting orks never made it into combat. From then on, I ignored 'em and won the game on Secondary Objectives.
Second game (1000pts), I just focus fired everything at the units that WEREN'T DC, then kept back and allowed my Dakka Jet and my Kanz to whittle them away. and drove my Burna Wagon up to them to burninate 'em. None of this wiped the squad, but it did enough damage to reduce their numbers, and keep them tied up (they assaulted the BW, which I expected and planned for, and got Overwatch'd), to the point where my opponent simply couldn't win. By the end of turn 4, I held two objectives, killed both his HQ's, compared to him only having killed my battlewagon, and only having an 11 man strong DC squad left.
Admittedly, he had a silly list. Walking your 20+ strong DC across the board isn't going to work well.
Regardless though, DC are something I really worry about.
So I've been pondering something for my nob bikes...
has anyone here ever used a unit like this:
7 total nob bikes all with cybork bodies
3 with just kombi skorchas
2 with klaws and kombi skorchas
1 with klaw and kombi skorcha.
1 Painboy
The reason I ask, is the flame templates this edition just seem SOOOOO good....
The twin linked big shoota is similar, but with the bikes speed... you can cover 3-4 models pretty reliably. Doing far more damage than if you just relied on the twin BS...
and to be honest... its only 30pts to do this... killing 2 marines or 1 terminator more than pays for that investment.
I've been trying to figure out a formula... X lootas + waggh turn supa shots does it require to kill Y DC in one Turn?
I only have had the oppurutniy to dakka dump into DC at full strength 1 time with this combination.. fired waggh'd jet and 21 lootas at 8 DC + reclusiarch..
My gut feeling is 2.5-3 lootas per 1 DC.... So lets do the math
(assuming a WAAAAGH turn for double supa shoota shots from 1 dakka jet)
18 shots @ BS 3 = 9 hits, TL ROLL = +4.5 hits = 13.5 (14) hits Total 1 round
vs. T4 = 11.66 Wounds (12)
DC will throw 7.92 (8) saves thus failing 4. FNP will save 1.32 Wounds
power armor will save 2.64 (3) leaving 1 wound to FNP which statistically should fail and pass thru 1 casualty.
so if You have 3 squads of 7 lootas and a waggh'd dakka jet firing at 8DC+Reclusiarch it seems you could realistically expect ~5 wounds to get thru on average... Only game I have actually tried this in I managed to wipe 8 DC and the reclusiarch in a single round of shooting. Musta rolled pretty good! Still came down to 4 wounds landing on 3w reclusiarch so only overkilled by a single wound.
So it seems on average that it requires 7 lootas to statistically get 1 wound thru 3+/FNP .... Way more than I thought... Sheesh. Someone check my #s?
boom wagon seeming like more viable alternative if one is really worried about DC
My calcs show 8 lootas getting one wound through, on average.
It's not actually that bad, when you consider it takes 5 lootas to kill a single normal marine, on clinical statistics.
Honestly, how you deal with them depends mostly on their size. Too large for a transport? Avoid them - since a unit of that size will eradicate anything that assaults it, or that it assaults. A unit of that size will also have trouble moving across the table, but note some transports have a capacity of 20.
Past that, just try to get as many str6+ shots into them - or failing that a torrent of hits where possible. Grotzookas work really well, as well as Burnas. Rokkits / KMB's also work really well here, since you are denying both their armour and their FNP. so each hit is an assured kill - not counting if you're hitting a forward IC.
None of these will cripple the unit in a single volley if it's large enough - go for attrition. Assaulting them with Kanz / Dreads is also a very good idea, but just be aware of which weapons they have in the unit, as well as the fact that they can use grenades.
So are regular nob squads even worth it now what with the loss of character status? I'm not talking about warbikers, but the regular nobz, the ones you get in the 5 man plastic box for $25. I have several of them I was running in a battlewagon with decent results, but I'm afraid with the loss of character status, they'll be worthless for pretty much everything except leading mobz now...
MrMoustaffa wrote: So are regular nob squads even worth it now what with the loss of character status?
Well, I like them even better now. No more stupid challenges, now all my Klaws get to hit. It helps a lot against Monstrous Creatures and Terminators. If someone really wants to challenge you, now it's your Painboy who doesn't get to fight... Not a big deal most of the time.
It's actually surprising how much allocating from the front hurt Kanz - they definitely took a survivability hit.
That said, they provide target saturation that is hard for me to drop. Opponents are often putting shots into kanz, rather than trukks or wagons. Additionally, Grotzookas are still fantastic weaponry, and even with low ap, can often endanger MEQ. Plus with the new blast rules in regards to vehicles, they are an even higher threat to weaker armour. As such, I find it a difficult prospect to get rid of them. I've dropped one unit to afford two fliers, but I can't seem to let go of the second
I have dropped them and replaced them with more boyz. It's really sad how much better that has made my army. Besides the nerf to the KFF and allocation, the two hull points really seal their fate. Any marine army simply tosses a couple of krak grenades their way, and they die, where they could keep khorne berzerkers busy for a few rounds before. Guardsmen or eldar simply disengage from combat if you charge them, a melta bomb usually means a dead kan, haywire grenades mean a dead unit. Gauss weaponry and high strength blasts vaporize them. Pretty much every rule change has turned against them.
They are too expensive for three rokkits that miss half the time, while the short range of the grotzooka tends to put them within range of a unit that can take them down in combat - which might be as powerful as space marine scouts.
Has anyone else considered using necrons as an ally? I was thinking about taking imotekh for the night fighting and a unit of immortals would be beneficial.
I really like the night fighting rules because orks with 3+ cover saves are awesome. The necrons can even hug the KFF to get the save as well.
Jidmah wrote: I have dropped them and replaced them with more boyz. It's really sad how much better that has made my army. Besides the nerf to the KFF and allocation, the two hull points really seal their fate. Any marine army simply tosses a couple of krak grenades their way, and they die, where they could keep khorne berzerkers busy for a few rounds before. Guardsmen or eldar simply disengage from combat if you charge them, a melta bomb usually means a dead kan, haywire grenades mean a dead unit. Gauss weaponry and high strength blasts vaporize them. Pretty much every rule change has turned against them.
They are too expensive for three rokkits that miss half the time, while the short range of the grotzooka tends to put them within range of a unit that can take them down in combat - which might be as powerful as space marine scouts.
I got 9 Kans too...
Kan Wall just doesn't work well anymore...
So I tried something different... here's the gist of my army:
-Wazzie
-Mek with Shokk Attack Gunz
3x 5-man Lootas
1x 10-man gretchin
4x 4-man bikers, plus 1 nob with BP & PK 2x DeffKoptas with BS+TL Rokkit
3x 3-man Kanz (2 squad w/ KMB, 1 squad w/ Rokkits)
ADS with quad gun
Tactically, I moved the kanz forward as fast as I can (1st/2nd turn they were running)... with a potential 12" charge, that freaked my oppoennet out!
Kanz kept 'em busy for 3 - 4 turns.
The Shokk Attack guns... was surprising effective .
Yeah, still trying to figure that one out. At least we don't give KFF saves to enemy vehicles, or it would just be depressing. But KFF does affect enemy infantry, so keep that in mind for if you want to deffrolla them.
Cuz, you know, forcefields totally save against steamrollers bolted to the front of a monster truck from hell
Yeah, still trying to figure that one out. At least we don't give KFF saves to enemy vehicles, or it would just be depressing. But KFF does affect enemy infantry, so keep that in mind for if you want to deffrolla them.
Cuz, you know, forcefields totally save against steamrollers bolted to the front of a monster truck from hell
Wait, why are enemy vehicles exempt from the KFF, yet enemy infantry get access to it?
Again, you will only get cover saves if you are awarded cover in the first place. As long as you are awarded cover, and dealt damage by something that is (a) not a close combat attack, or (b) not an attack that expressly denies cover, then you can use your cover saves.
If infantry is in terrain when Deffrolla'd, they get cover. If a vehicle moved flat out, they get cover (now with its own official ruling!). If a vehicle popped smoke, or is under the effects of KFF, it gets cover. Pretty much the same as it was in 5th, but no one was brave enough to bring it up
If you ram a unit that's not getting cover, they won't get cover. I've already has someone try to claim that the Deffrolla "granted" them the cover save xP
The ruling that wargear only affects your on army unless expressely stated otherwise is absent from the rulebook FAQ. As such, many see that to mean that it's free game.
Still a bit peeved at the whole kommando situation though..
*
On this topic, I was thinking one use for commando's still is very fighting vs a very shooty army that sucks in CC (Tau & IG), in which you either get to them & win, or die trying: infiltrating them forward does give you like a turn extra movement (especially when you can put terrain so that you can deploy behind it).
So you have to boy (6pt) with a stikkbom (7pt); that can move through cover & deploys further... maybe worth the 3 extra points?
Jidmah wrote: I have dropped them and replaced them with more boyz. It's really sad how much better that has made my army. Besides the nerf to the KFF and allocation, the two hull points really seal their fate. Any marine army simply tosses a couple of krak grenades their way, and they die, where they could keep khorne berzerkers busy for a few rounds before. Guardsmen or eldar simply disengage from combat if you charge them, a melta bomb usually means a dead kan, haywire grenades mean a dead unit. Gauss weaponry and high strength blasts vaporize them. Pretty much every rule change has turned against them.
They are too expensive for three rokkits that miss half the time, while the short range of the grotzooka tends to put them within range of a unit that can take them down in combat - which might be as powerful as space marine scouts.
Yea, Ive been running pretty much, horde Orks so far, with a dash of something else to mix it up/try things out. I have to say, horde Orks just beat the piss out of things. In fact, tonight I played another game where I spammed boyz in a 1k point game with dreads, a KFF and a SAG mek to fill it out. And my opponent was just hosed down. Granted I rolled REALLY well on my KFF saves, but even still, that would help reduce deaths to my mass of boyz, and the SAG is still proving to be a great asset to my horde. Im just taking a serious beating, bordering on the absurd, and then when in range, just pulverize with shootas and assault.
6th seems to be the Horde edition, where as before it was which ever klan uses BW the most.
Yeah, still trying to figure that one out. At least we don't give KFF saves to enemy vehicles, or it would just be depressing. But KFF does affect enemy infantry, so keep that in mind for if you want to deffrolla them.
Cuz, you know, forcefields totally save against steamrollers bolted to the front of a monster truck from hell
Wait, why are enemy vehicles exempt from the KFF, yet enemy infantry get access to it?
Again, you will only get cover saves if you are awarded cover in the first place. As long as you are awarded cover, and dealt damage by something that is (a) not a close combat attack, or (b) not an attack that expressly denies cover, then you can use your cover saves.
If infantry is in terrain when Deffrolla'd, they get cover. If a vehicle moved flat out, they get cover (now with its own official ruling!). If a vehicle popped smoke, or is under the effects of KFF, it gets cover. Pretty much the same as it was in 5th, but no one was brave enough to bring it up
If you ram a unit that's not getting cover, they won't get cover. I've already has someone try to claim that the Deffrolla "granted" them the cover save xP
The ruling that wargear only affects your on army unless expressely stated otherwise is absent from the rulebook FAQ. As such, many see that to mean that it's free game.
Reminds me of the 5th edition story of a Chaos player at a tourny claiming that the legs of his defiler, granted said defiler a 4+ cover save And yes, YOUR KFF will not help an enemy get a cover save. Not how the rules work.
Disclaimer: This is about as RAW as you can get. But in my defense, it literally says all units. It's a giant force field dome and doesn't pick targets. To me, it made sense that literally anything that got within the dome would be shielded. It's not like the dome just magically disappears where the enemy is but leaves only orks cover. This isn't like the painboy healing allied guardsmen or anything. I'm just saying why it makes sense that it would affect all units within the field no matter what. If this gets heated we can always take it over to YMDC.
It says all units within 6", it never specifies enemy or ally or friendly or anything, it just says all units. It's like a blast template affects all units underneath, it does not discriminate. When a blast template scatters onto yours and your opponents units, you don't get to choose to only affect enemy or friendly units. That's what the KFF felt like.
As for why enemy vehicles don't get it, in the faq orks got for 6th ed, it states that only friendly vehicles become obscured, and get the +5 cover save for doing so. Nothing was mentioned about non vehicle, non ork units.
The ork codex entry for KFF if you want to see that as well.
Kustom Force Field:Meks will build or scavenge powerful force field projectors with which to protect their warty hides. A kustom force field gives all units within 6" of the mek a cover save of +5. Vehicles within 6" are treated as being obscured targets. The force field has no effect in assault.
By not giving enemy units the cover save as well, you're not giving ALL units within 6" the save. That's how I've understood it since back in 5th, and if an enemy unit had gotten with 6" of me back then I would have given it to them then as well. The only real significance about it in 6th is that it allows you to shield an ally's infantry, which can be extremely handy for IG and other horde armies. This means you see it a lot more than you ever would back in 5th.
Unlike almost every other aura in game, the KFF has not been limited to "friendly units" "units from Codex:Orks" or "units in your army". The FAQ in 5th concerning this kind of abilities has never appeared in new the rulebook(unlike most other FAQ answers), and has not (yet?) been reprinted.
Considering that all our allies are considered enemy units, this might as well be intended, rather than an overlook.
Jidmah i was hoping i could ask you to produce a list you would suggest being as our most viable for 950 pts and 1000 pts. I want to compare notes and see how you think orks are best used in smaller points and then i will compare my own.
If I'd ever have to attend a tourney at such low point levels, it would probably look somewhat like this:
- HQ - Biker Warboss - He's a beast, and can take on most troops by himself, as well as any vehicle. KFF Mek - Prevents focus fire
- Troops - 3x 20 Shoota boyz, Nob, BP, PK - Yes, I still believe in the power of the klaw. Sadly no spare points for 'eavy armor.
- Fast Attack - Dakkajet, extra shoota - It's nigh invinicle at low point levels, too good to skip
- Heavy Support - 3x 3 Kannons. Can't beat their cost efficiency, and they are pretty decent all-round shooters.
You'll probably notice that I've skipped lootaz, but I really don't see a reason to fit them in. Kannons can handle vehicles and MCs if deployed agressively, dakkajet handles light armor and any kind of infantry(remember pinning!), the warboss takes on heavy armor and, when assisted by a boyz unit, characters and MCs.
Jidmah wrote: If I'd ever have to attend a tourney at such low point levels, it would probably look somewhat like this:
- HQ -
Biker Warboss - He's a beast, and can take on most troops by himself, as well as any vehicle.
KFF Mek - Prevents focus fire
- Troops -
3x 20 Shoota boyz, Nob, BP, PK - Yes, I still believe in the power of the klaw. Sadly no spare points for 'eavy armor.
- Fast Attack -
Dakkajet, extra shoota - It's nigh invinicle at low point levels, too good to skip
- Heavy Support -
3x 3 Kannons. Can't beat their cost efficiency, and they are pretty decent all-round shooters.
You'll probably notice that I've skipped lootaz, but I really don't see a reason to fit them in. Kannons can handle vehicles and MCs if deployed agressively, dakkajet handles light armor and any kind of infantry(remember pinning!), the warboss takes on heavy armor and, when assisted by a boyz unit, characters and MCs.
A pretty interesting idea here, I hadn't thought of running the warboss alone like that but you bring a good point, are you saying that the warboss hides with a 20 boy unit or races toward the enemy?
Hide. He has no choice but being your warlord, so you shouldn't toss him and that VP away carelessly. On the bright side, many leader feats benefit him even when racing around alone. But you'll want to keep him around till the end of the game anyways, as he can contest or even clear objectives easily.
I usually only unattach him when he can make an assault move that locks him in combat on the same turn. Against walkers, MCs or beatstick characters it's more beneficial to bring the boyz along as additional wounds and challenge protection. Don't have yourself baited out into the open by a rhino parking exactly 13" away.
I still cant believe cover save for deff rolla.... BRB says no cover saves for hits in melee. what do they honestly consider a Deff Rolla hit to be??? a shooting attack?!?
For the whole kff to enemy units thing, you could make the arguement that if two units are both inside the kff, then neither gets cover, because there isn't an intervening force field between them. But then you'd have to let close melta squads and stuff bypass the save. That really needs to be fixed, but i just play with friends mostly, so we'll house rule it.
keltikhoa wrote: I still cant believe cover save for deff rolla.... BRB says no cover saves for hits in melee. what do they honestly consider a Deff Rolla hit to be??? a shooting attack?!?
It's a common misconception that cover saves can only be taken from shooting attacks, when the opposite has been true, even in 5th.
You get a cover save, if you have access to one, against any wound not caused by (a) a melee attack, or (b) an attack that expressly denies cover saves.
If you have a KFF in the battlewagon, it muddies the water somewhat.
I see it as a Field effect. It's not a Bubble, or a Dome. It's more like how you can feel electricity for a certain distance from a charged object- a field. It's not focused in any one area, but is infused throughout the effected area, and 'grounds' through living tissue (or cyborgs or metal dudes or whatever), which is how it extends to entire squads.
keltikhoa wrote:I still cant believe cover save for deff rolla.... BRB says no cover saves for hits in melee. what do they honestly consider a Deff Rolla hit to be??? a shooting attack?!?
They probably realized that jink wouldn't work otherwise. It's not that big of a deal though. Vehicles don't get cover from area terrain unless 25% is hidden, so unless they are obscured for some reason (KFF, smoke launchers) it is very unlikely that a vehicle will ever get a cover save against the rolla outside of special wargear and jink. Any infantry models were already entitled to use their armor save against the deff rolla, so unless you run over units like boyz or gaunts, the extra cover save does nothing. Outside of area terrain, being 25% hidden from a battlewagon standing right in front of you is close to impossible anyways.
Anvildude wrote:I see it as a Field effect. It's not a Bubble, or a Dome. It's more like how you can feel electricity for a certain distance from a charged object- a field. It's not focused in any one area, but is infused throughout the effected area, and 'grounds' through living tissue (or cyborgs or metal dudes or whatever), which is how it extends to entire squads.
The KFF is not a distinct piece of wargear, every one is a unique piece. Fore example, lore describes the Arch-Arsonist of Chartokk carrying a KFF - actually a looted forcefield generator original part of an eldar space ship that even blocked blows in close combat. I also remember reading about a big mek whose KFF was sort of a tesla coil, zapping bullets and missiles out of the air. And last, the KFF shown in the DoWPC Game provided every ork in range with a personal force field - it kind of created a bubble around everyone getting close enough to the big mek carrying it.
No matter how you look at it, it's ork high-tech, so it doesn't have to make sense in the first place.
Jidmah wrote:'eavy armor for nobz is mandatory now though.
How many people have tried this in their shoota mobs? Is it worth the extra 5 pts?
Well, 'eavy armor won't be winning challenges for you, but it's still good to keep the nob alive from precision shots, vehicle explosions, ordinary flamers and the like. I've been using it thoroughly on my trukk mobs, where every wound counts, and will use it to protect nobz squads from overwatch/walls of death now that you can't LOS away wounds from your valuable klaws.
As for shoota mobs, large ones specially, I've never felt the need to give the nob extra protection. Wound allocation and LOS will take care of most threats.
Jidmah wrote:They probably realized that jink wouldn't work otherwise. It's not that big of a deal though. Vehicles don't get cover from area terrain unless 25% is hidden, so unless they are obscured for some reason (KFF, smoke launchers) it is very unlikely that a vehicle will ever get a cover save against the rolla outside of special wargear and jink. Any infantry models were already entitled to use their armor save against the deff rolla, so unless you run over units like boyz or gaunts, the extra cover save does nothing. Outside of area terrain, being 25% hidden from a battlewagon standing right in front of you is close to impossible anyways.
True. Most cover that would grant infantry 5+ or better saves is impassable terrain for battlewagons anyway.
Agreed with the above, I run big shoota mobz, and I dont really see the point in giving the Nob eavy armor. If the points are just sitting there, then sure, but normally no. Even in challenges, if the Nob has a good chance to KO his opponent, then Ill give er a go, if not, he just sits it out, as the 20+ boyz attacking will usually do enough damage on their own. And if not, well Fearless is badass in 6th, so I dont much care
Kharrak... " If a vehicle moved flat out, they get cover (now with its own official ruling!). "
Can you tell me where this is.. I must have missed it.
Re : KFF .. I would have thought the Ork telekinetic beleif they have would make it work, such as their weapons which only work in the hands of orks. The KFF would only protect the Orks 'cus only orks believe that a big whirring smoke belching thing-a-ma-jig with added whirly bits is going to keep them alive longer.
As for cover from a Rolla.. I guess if you were in a trench you could duck and it would roll over the top, but as stated - most cover is negated by the other rules (25% etc) and the Tank Shock / Dangerous terrain rules themsleves cause issue for ramming stuff too well protected.
[user] : Well I guess Im pretty lucky then, considering i am very new to this and really aint missing out on what was and its like ive told the guys i play with that if i Really cared if I waon alot, I wouldn't be plain orks. I chose th play orcs cause they are funny and sooo unpredictable.
Re : KFF .. I would have thought the Ork telekinetic beleif they have would make it work, such as their weapons which only work in the hands of orks. The KFF would only protect the Orks 'cus only orks believe that a big whirring smoke belching thing-a-ma-jig with added whirly bits is going to keep them alive longer.
Good point! too bad rules are not written from fluff
That would not be accurate fluff though. Ork technology works better than it should, but it's not completely disfunctional like most people keep saying. A human could probably pick up some of the shootaz and fire them two or three times before they jam, explode, or the recoil rips their arm off. Ork technology works better in ork hands, but it still has to work in the first place.
Jidmah wrote: That would not be accurate fluff though. Ork technology works better than it should, but it's not completely disfunctional like most people keep saying.
A human could probably pick up some of the shootaz and fire them two or three times before they jam, explode, oder the recoil rips their arm off. Ork technology works better in ork hands, but it still has to work in the first place.
Yeah there are instances of guardsmen picking up and firing ork shootas and other weapons. Deathworld for example
Spoiler:
had some Catachans disguise themselves as reanimated orks and used some shootas they had found to help "convince" the orks that they were being attacked by their reanimated dead. The deathworld would actually reanimate things that died on it, so the orks had fought it before. They used the ensuing panic to sneak into a mine. No, i am not making this up.
They managed to fire the shootas for about half a minute until they jammed, but they still worked just fine.
So the orks beliefs works like oil for their tech... An engine will run a few minutes without oil, but is likely not something you want to be standing next to while its doing it.
Jidmah wrote: That would not be accurate fluff though. Ork technology works better than it should, but it's not completely disfunctional like most people keep saying.
A human could probably pick up some of the shootaz and fire them two or three times before they jam, explode, oder the recoil rips their arm off. Ork technology works better in ork hands, but it still has to work in the first place.
Amen.
It's extremely annoying how many people get this wrong. I constantly have to correct people online and in the real world.
keltikhoa wrote: So the orks beliefs works like oil for their tech... An engine will run a few minutes without oil, but is likely not something you want to be standing next to while its doing it.
The waagh field smoothes reality over, basically. It's not perfect, but it allows their planes to fly despite shoddy aerodynamics (not the only ones here..looks at SM fliers ) and theur machines to work without clapping out every two seconds.
There is the narrative on Pg 10 of the codex showing that many ork devices don't work unless wielded by an ork, but they at least have to mostly work for the field to edge them to 'works, most of the time..'
daorksalot wrote: [user] : Well I guess Im pretty lucky then, considering i am very new to this and really aint missing out on what was and its like ive told the guys i play with that if i Really cared if I waon alot, I wouldn't be plain orks. I chose th play orcs cause they are funny and sooo unpredictable.
Good God, man (or woman)! You're supposedly American; Please, PLEASE! Type English!
had some Catachans disguise themselves as reanimated orks and used some shootas they had found to help "convince" the orks that they were being attacked by their reanimated dead. The deathworld would actually reanimate things that died on it, so the orks had fought it before. They used the ensuing panic to sneak into a mine. No, i am not making this up.
They managed to fire the shootas for about half a minute until they jammed, but they still worked just fine.
Of course this could be because the Orks that were being shot at thought that the guns being used to shoot them would work
The only ork weapons that deffinately would not work in non-ork hands are probably SAG and Zzap kannon. Zzap kannon would just send a gigantic current through a human and killn them, and who the hell knows what a SAG would do if fired by a human..
Jidmah wrote: That would not be accurate fluff though. Ork technology works better than it should, but it's not completely disfunctional like most people keep saying.
A human could probably pick up some of the shootaz and fire them two or three times before they jam, explode, oder the recoil rips their arm off. Ork technology works better in ork hands, but it still has to work in the first place.
Amen.
It's extremely annoying how many people get this wrong. I constantly have to correct people online and in the real world.
keltikhoa wrote: So the orks beliefs works like oil for their tech... An engine will run a few minutes without oil, but is likely not something you want to be standing next to while its doing it.
Orks still use oil.
Agreed on both fronts, if my name wasn't obvious. We orks have tech you think that shouldn't work... but see we'z cunning like dat and den BAM i kills ya! ya see?! Snikky tech is wot dat is!
Rejn wrote: Except for that it says it right in the codex, that most ork tech works because they believe it does... Specifically talking about the RPJ
It's specifically talking about red paint job, yes. dBut other than that, it only says that some pieces of ork technology found by the imperium refuses to work unless in the hands of an ork. This does not mean that an ork mek could nail a peice of rusty iron to a burger grill and because he believes it can destroy the world, it will. Otherwise, every mek that built a badass stompa, like a super huge one with lots of armor, would naturally beleive that it was the killiest thing ever and couldn't be killed. But they can be. Ork meks are said to have all engineering and electrical knowledge down pat from birth. If all they had to do was nail two chunks or iron together and it became a teleporter, why would they need that knowledge?
Hey so this discussion got me thinking about a few things that orks can do in sixth edition. Warbosses have always been great at crumping and when accompanied by a nob,who can protect him from challenges, he gets even better. Orks can also very easily abuse the new force org at 2k points because of their horde composition. So why not abuse it to take our cheapest and most efficient generals, Warbosses? Also someone pointed out the combination of kannons and dakkajets. It seems like a good combination, both eat light armor, are decent at killing enemy flyers and kannons are super cheap. Anyways here is a list idea, not sure how competitive it is, but I feel like it could get the ball rolling on how Ork's can abuse their new toys and org charts.
Troops:
2x 20 shoota boyz
3x 10 slugga boyz (making room for the boss), 3x Nob PK, BP 3x trukk
Elite:
12x burnas
Heavy support:
2x BW, DR, BS, RPJ 1x BW, BS, RPJ 3x 3 kannons, extra ammo runts in each group (had 12 extra points exactly )
Fast attack:
2x dakkajet, extra suppa shoota
I know this is an army list, but it involves a lot of the new changes to orks in sixth edition (flyers, boost to artillery, force org, challenges, flamers) and i was wondering how this list looks and if it really plays to orks strengths in the sixth edition or not. (I was also considering dropping the Big Mek, and the two DRs to add a third flyer and 1 mekk to the burna group, just to have better protection against flyers).
This does not mean that an ork mek could nail a peice of rusty iron to a burger grill and because he believes it can destroy the world, it will
untrue . if the waaghh is big enough with enough boyz pumped up , it would .
Source?
Why does Mekboss Buzzgob bother with the wiring of his eye of gork and looting better engines from imperial vehicles for his gargant if that were the case?
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TableTopJosh wrote: Hey so this discussion got me thinking about a few things that orks can do in sixth edition. Warbosses have always been great at crumping and when accompanied by a nob,who can protect him from challenges, he gets even better. Orks can also very easily abuse the new force org at 2k points because of their horde composition. So why not abuse it to take our cheapest and most efficient generals, Warbosses? Also someone pointed out the combination of kannons and dakkajets. It seems like a good combination, both eat light armor, are decent at killing enemy flyers and kannons are super cheap. Anyways here is a list idea, not sure how competitive it is, but I feel like it could get the ball rolling on how Ork's can abuse their new toys and org charts.
Troops:
2x 20 shoota boyz
3x 10 slugga boyz (making room for the boss), 3x Nob PK, BP 3x trukk
Elite:
12x burnas
Heavy support:
2x BW, DR, BS, RPJ 1x BW, BS, RPJ 3x 3 kannons, extra ammo runts in each group (had 12 extra points exactly )
Fast attack:
2x dakkajet, extra suppa shoota
I know this is an army list, but it involves a lot of the new changes to orks in sixth edition (flyers, boost to artillery, force org, challenges, flamers) and i was wondering how this list looks and if it really plays to orks strengths in the sixth edition or not. (I was also considering dropping the Big Mek, and the two DRs to add a third flyer and 1 mekk to the burna group, just to have better protection against flyers).
I have tried that, but my experience is that there aren't enough things on the board worth getting crushed by the warboss. That's not my final conclusion though.
Taking more battlewagons instead of trukks would be better though, keep in mind that your opponent can bring twice as much of hus battlewagon-stopping units as well.
Last week, I finally got to play 40k games in 6th. Twice against IG and once against Eldars.
Orks vs. IG, 750 points ------------------------------ 1x KFF Big Mek 19x Shootaboyz inc. PK/HA/BP Nob 19x Shootaboyz inc. PK/HA/BP Nob 1x Grot Bomm Launcha 1x Battlewagon (DR, 1BS, Kanon, RPJ, AP) 1x Battlewagon (DR, 1BS, Kanon, RPJ, AP)
The battle was a night fight. Refused flank for both of my Battlewagons along with KFF cover. Overall I made one big mistake: disembarking one of my shootaboyz squad to take an objective (relic). Bad idea when you can get burnt or sniped. I won the game by taking advantage of ruins to protect my boyz against heavy fire, but most of all thanks to deffrollas. The IG headquarters and heavy weaponry was hidden in a ruin which collapsed thanks to a lucky roll. I didn't think I could use DR against buildings but it can be mighty effective. That was close anyway.
A similar list -- I just attached a Warboss on bike attached to a unit of Kopterz for obvious reasons. Got the first turn and thanks to unbelievable lucky rolls, I shot down an entire Wraithguard squad. Moving BWs by 7" and shooting is quite good, but using DR against a Wraithlord isn't *that* effective, because of 3+ saves. Turn 2, the Big Boss killed 6 footdars thanks to its shoota-skorcha. Seriously, if you ever play a Warboss on bike, just give him that combiweapon, it's really useful, even more when coming into play by the opposite table edge. At the end of turn 2, the Eldar army only got his HQs + a Wraithlord and 6 Guardians. I just ignored monstruous creatures and aimed at infantry and won the match with only one of my troops entirely destroyed.
Orks vs. IG Apocalypse ~3000 points ------------------------------ Since there can be many issues with 6th edition when playing Apocalypse games, we had to come to an agreement with my opponent (e.g. trying to keep traditional FOCs). For those interested, I'll be brief: use Flank March as a strategic asset for most of your best units, and field from the first turn a Big Mek Stompa full of meks, with a KFF Big Mek being the icing on the cake, to protect also a couple of BWs full of boyz/lootas. The IG Stormlord didn't do really well. I used an ADL to shoot down flyers but Vendettas are really overpowered units. Large victory for Orks in spite of my Stompa crushed by an insane series of rolls for a SINGLE lascanon (6 to hit, 6 for penetration, 6 chain reaction, 6 chain reaction and 5 loss of the last structure point!).
Which brings me to ask you something about boarding plank. Can I use my attacks the turn it arrived by the opposite table edge? This isn't considered like an assault, is it?
Here's a list I've been having a bit of success with let me know what you think.
1850 pts.
HQ Big Mek w/ shokk attack gun
ammo runt
attack squig
cybork
Fortification
Fortress of Redemption w/ Krakstorm missile upgrade
Troops
4 units of 11 boyz w/ shootas
all are in trukks with a nob that has a big shoota
10 gretchin with a runtherd--- these are in fortress of redemption in the krakstorm missile silo
Fast Attack
3 units of 3 Grot Bomm Lunchas
Heavy Support
1 unit 3 Zzap gunz w/ 3 ammo runts and a runtherd
Elite
35 Lootas w/ deffguns in the fortress broken into 3 units
10 in the bunker with one manning the twin linked lascannon when necessary
10 on the battlements
15 in the Tower itself
opinions definitely welcomed and the fortress has been properly modified so it has been orc desecrated
I know this is an army list, but it involves a lot of the new changes to orks in sixth edition (flyers, boost to artillery, force org, challenges, flamers) and i was wondering how this list looks and if it really plays to orks strengths in the sixth edition or not. (I was also considering dropping the Big Mek, and the two DRs to add a third flyer and 1 mekk to the burna group, just to have better protection against flyers).
I have tried that, but my experience is that there aren't enough things on the board worth getting crushed by the warboss. That's not my final conclusion though.
Taking more battlewagons instead of trukks would be better though, keep in mind that your opponent can bring twice as much of hus battlewagon-stopping units as well.
Thanks for the feedback. I was wondering, since I havent played too much 6th editiont myself, if people still bring as much anti av 14. I feel like less people are bringing mech, and that helps BW lists. I could be wrong, I haven't played too many armies in the new edition.
Page 16 – Shooting Phase, Look Out, Sir
Change the second sentence of the second bullet point to:
“Determine which model in the unit is closest to the character,
and resolve the Wound against that model instead.”
Page 413 – Reference, Profile, Codex: Orks, Nob.
Change unit type to Infantry and add the following Designer’s
Note:
Designers Note: Wolf Guard, Nobz, Nobz Warbikers, and Crisis
Shas’vre that lead a unit (for example an Ork Nob leading Ork
Boyz, a Wolf Guard leading Grey Hunters) have (Character)
added to their unit type.
grumble grumble grumble
.. well, at least I got inspired to make another mob of 10 Nobz with Big Choppaz. to accompany my very successful other Choppa Nobz + Boss.. now I can field the following:
Wagon + Rolla + Kannon
Boss + 10 Nobz + Painboy + Waargh Banner + All Big Choppaz
Wagon + Rolla + Kannon
Boss + 10 Nobz + Painboy + Waargh Banner + All Big Choppaz
Theres a Powerklaw and some Kombi Skorchas lurking in there too.
All of which comes in around (ish) 1k... I think on the small 4 x 4 foot table the local store has it should have some fun. I'm planning to use this in the next game so will let you know how it goes.. and yeah, it's not that competitive.. but it is freshly painted and thats what matters to me!
RE - Bonzofever.. that Stompa sounded deadly, were you running a couple of burna boy mobs with 3 meks, thus 6 mek in total plus a big mek to boot?
TableTopJosh wrote:Thanks for the feedback. I was wondering, since I havent played too much 6th editiont myself, if people still bring as much anti av 14. I feel like less people are bringing mech, and that helps BW lists. I could be wrong, I haven't played too many armies in the new edition.
This is true for meltas(espeically the suicide variants), but not for lascannons, lances or rail guns. In addition, high-strength blasts got a lot better at shooting vehicles, so look out for those, too.
MechanicusOmnisWrex wrote:
.. well, at least I got inspired to make another mob of 10 Nobz with Big Choppaz. to accompany my very successful other Choppa Nobz + Boss.. now I can field the following:
Wagon + Rolla + Kannon
Boss + 10 Nobz + Painboy + Waargh Banner + All Big Choppaz
Wagon + Rolla + Kannon
Boss + 10 Nobz + Painboy + Waargh Banner + All Big Choppaz
Theres a Powerklaw and some Kombi Skorchas lurking in there too.
All of which comes in around (ish) 1k... I think on the small 4 x 4 foot table the local store has it should have some fun. I'm planning to use this in the next game so will let you know how it goes.. and yeah, it's not that competitive.. but it is freshly painted and thats what matters to me!
Have you tried just using regular choppas instead of big choppas? In my experience they are about equal since you no longer need big choppas to kill vehicles, but regular choppas don't cost extra. I think they are only worth their points on nobz wielding combi-weapons, since those lose their slugga.
See, if I were to run a nobz unit, they would have kombi skorchas on them anyways, so I too would run bigchoppas. Not to mention, with choppas, your rolling 3+ on the charge to wound, and 4+ afterwards against most armies. Where as with Bigchoppas its pretty much always a 2+ to wound. Sure its -1 attack, but the wounding stays consistent throughout
Assuming MEQ, 3 Attacks wounding on 2+ cause half a dead marine (.55), four attacks wounding on 4+ cause about a tenth of a marines less casualties (.44). I don't think that's worth five points. Besides, most units should be getting crushed by nobz either way.
Have we found that nobz have lost ALL of thier fielding power? or just most of it?
My nobz have yet to perform for me at all when fielded in 6th. so far, the MANz still hold thier own, and lootas and dakkajets are the units that are almost guaranteed to hold thier own anymore. Is that everyone elses experience too or just my play style?
RE - Bonzofever.. that Stompa sounded deadly, were you running a couple of burna boy mobs with 3 meks, thus 6 mek in total plus a big mek to boot?
Precisely! Turn 1 I repaired 4 Hull Points (i.e. 1 Structure Point + 1 Hull Point).
Turn 2... I forgot to repair, I wasn't expecting to have 3 Structure Points blown with a single lascannon hit!
Lifta-droppa is fun to use, and deadly. It killed 1 Leman Russ, 1 Manticore and 3 random troopers. Cool !
Lifta Droppaz are mega deadly.. no roll to hit YAY!!!
as regards Nobz Mobs with Big Choppaz it is probably worth mentioning that most the time I face other Orks or Guard so the 3+ save doesn't factor in to the equation..
S7 on the charge is great for hacking down light to medium walkers and the Boss mixed in means even AV14 is threatened...
and as I said, its not for the competitive value that I behold my Nobz so highly.. its cus they look so damn cool wielding massive choppy chain blades above their heads!
Sovspot wrote: In all honesty, I don't see any real reason to field regular nobz.
I dont. Infact I havnt used a nob mob in over a year if I remember correctly. I personally call units like that of Ghaz, a crutch unit. Meaning, they are so powerful, you end up relying on them to do the impossible, because they usually can. Ive dont awesome without them. And now in 6th, so many people are confused what to do with them now. feth em, thats what Id say about it But yea, 6th, REALLY hoed the Nobz.
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Jidmah wrote: Assuming MEQ, 3 Attacks wounding on 2+ cause half a dead marine (.55), four attacks wounding on 4+ cause about a tenth of a marines less casualties (.44). I don't think that's worth five points. Besides, most units should be getting crushed by nobz either way.
Again, I dont actually run Nobz, BUT at least taking big choppas give you more versatility with the unit. They can actually bring down vehicles without having to glance the piss out of them. What if (Big what if here) they are assaulted by a walker? Or something with a high toughness? Then what? Again, assuming there ISNT a PK in the mix. With all those attacks....your going nowhere, where as my unit of bigchoppas can still chuckle and put holes in things
Sovspot wrote: In all honesty, I don't see any real reason to field regular nobz.
I dont. Infact I havnt used a nob mob in over a year if I remember correctly. I personally call units like that of Ghaz, a crutch unit. Meaning, they are so powerful, you end up relying on them to do the impossible, because they usually can. Ive dont awesome without them. And now in 6th, so many people are confused what to do with them now. feth em, thats what Id say about it But yea, 6th, REALLY hoed the Nobz.
I wouldn't call Ghaz a crutch unit. I believe you can make a diversified list with him in it.
Incorrect, the lifta droppa has to hit on 4+ or has no effect at all. The latest rules for the lifta droppa are found in IA: Apocalypse Second Edition.
as regards Nobz Mobs with Big Choppaz it is probably worth mentioning that most the time I face other Orks or Guard so the 3+ save doesn't factor in to the equation..
The save value has little to do with it, hitting three times vs hitting four times is the key. Against guard the choppas even wound on 2+/3+ so the gap is smaller.
S7 on the charge is great for hacking down light to medium walkers and the Boss mixed in means even AV14 is threatened...
Sure, but do you really need ten of them? I'd bet half as many would do just as good.
and as I said, its not for the competitive value that I behold my Nobz so highly.. its cus they look so damn cool wielding massive choppy chain blades above their heads!
Agree, but you did ask for advice All I'm doing is supplying it. What you do with it, is none of my business.
Jidmah wrote: Assuming MEQ, 3 Attacks wounding on 2+ cause half a dead marine (.55), four attacks wounding on 4+ cause about a tenth of a marines less casualties (.44). I don't think that's worth five points. Besides, most units should be getting crushed by nobz either way.
Again, I dont actually run Nobz, BUT at least taking big choppas give you more versatility with the unit. They can actually bring down vehicles without having to glance the piss out of them.
This is exactly where I'm coming from. I run nobz all the time (as bikers or regular), usually fielding two PKs and an even split between big choppas and choppas. In almost every single fight against a vehicle I had in 6th, either the choppa nobz and the painboy took down the vehicle before I rolled the big choppas, or the klaws totally tore it apart if they got to strike. If nobz charge any vehicle, even if it has rear armor 11, it's dead, and big choppas really never added anything but overkill, which sometimes even lead to an explosion on top of a wrecked result, causing unnecessary wounds.
What if (Big what if here) they are assaulted by a walker? Or something with a high toughness? Then what? Again, assuming there ISNT a PK in the mix. With all those attacks....your going nowhere, where as my unit of bigchoppas can still chuckle and put holes in things
I'd argue that's its your own damn fault for not bringing a pk But seriously, against a AV13 walker you'd still be going nowhere (curse those damn soul grinders), even if you charged them for some reason. And once you've failed to take it down during your first turn, S6 isn't going to scatch their paint anymore, while they smash 30 points of nobz whenever one of their attacks connects. All walkers actually good in combat either have AV13(soul grinder, furioso, ironclad, bjorn) or hit so hard that nobz shouldn't be remotely near them, like DC dreads or (if rumors hold true) mauler fiends. So it really comes down to beating deff dreads (and we all know that stopping them does not involve tossing a deathstar at them), and marine dreads which didn't trade away their DCCW. If you find yourself in combat with one of those for whatever reason, you would probably have been better off spending 25 points on a PK rather than on five big choppas. All other walkers both fold like wet paper to nobz (some of them even to boyz) and should be taken down by lootaz anyways, to prevent them from shooting your stuff. A wise ork player once told me to not spend points on making a unit mediocre at something it usually sucks at. It's probably the best advice given to me ever. Nobz suck at fighting walkers, even if you spend as many points as possible, they still aren't great at it.
Thanks for the advice and I find it very useful, I never fielded Nobz until the spring of this year when I started selecting units I rarely fielded units and giving them a go, finding myself using 3 Boom Wagons and a hefty amount of Nobs without PK's and doing quite well with them too. (admittedly only fighting against Guard and Orks and on the local stores 4x4 foot table too - an environment where death stars can do well since they end up in range of most things quite quickly).
There have been some entertaining scraps in the center of the board with most of each army piling in to bash the zog out of one another!
The Nobs high toughness was a constant feature that helped, and a lot of my logic was based on the cost of 1 nob with big choppa being the same as buying one nob a PK and they both wound on 2+.
At heart I'm a horde playing but spending time using super-elite-troop units has been refreshing
anyways. cheers for all the feedback!
ps.. Lifta Droppa roll to hit now.. does the opponent get a cover save too? makes it a lot less deadly, but then, it was kinda mental!
MechanicusOmnisWrex wrote: ps.. Lifta Droppa roll to hit now.. does the opponent get a cover save too? makes it a lot less deadly, but then, it was kinda mental!
Cover saves can be taken if they have access to it, but Power Fields and Void Fields are ignored.
In 5th edition I ran a kanwall list with a full unit of nobs and a painboy, diversified of course, and they were superb. Took the kans out since they now suck, and drop to anything as small as IG because everyone now has nades! Bottom line my nobs, where they used to go through 2 or 3 units and still kept trucking, now are lucky to go through thier first unit without being whiped!
Last game was
lootas15
boyz30x2
boyz20x3
ghaz
warboss
dakkajet x2
4manz
and against BA was a good match, we ended up tieing in KP game
Incorrect, the lifta droppa has to hit on 4+ or has no effect at all. The latest rules for the lifta droppa are found in IA: Apocalypse Second Edition.
Once again, my opponent and I didn't play according to latest IA rules of Lifta Droppa Battlewagon. This is all about agreeing on what seems best suitable for fun games (I think I've already made my point before in this topic ;-) ) For 650 points, the Big Mek Stompa unit would be completely useless. Seriously, a mishap making the gargantuan walker to explode? That'd be a ridiculous investment even for Apoc Games. We opted for the original rules of the Lifta-Droppa.
For those playing with the latest rules (which are for the Lifta Wagon), you'd be better off with extra SAG templates.
Edit: Plus there are so many mix-ups in IA books, especially in Aeronautica (Flakka Trakks/Trukks). It looks like a slapdash job to me. For example, IAApoc Second Edition gives the following profile to Lifta Droppa overload: Range: Overload, S: 48", AP: D, Special: 1 Heavy, 10" Blast
Just because you don't like the rules doesn't make them any less official. Plus, the rules are for the lifta droppa weapon, not just the wagon. The nerf was needed, considering that any hit basically auto-destroys any vehicle in game now.
If you want to use old rules, that's your business, I hear people are also still using the old tyranid or CSM codices.
But, unless your opponent agreed with you on it, using outdated, more powerful rules is no less than cheating. Claiming that an obviously intended change is a "mix-up" even more so.
The rules for the lifta-droppa have changed, deal with it.
Considering that his is a thread about 6th Edition Tactics for everyone, outdated rules and house-rules should stay outside.
Jidmah wrote: Just because you don't like the rules doesn't make them any less official. Plus, the rules are for the lifta droppa weapon, not just the wagon. The nerf was needed, considering that any hit basically auto-destroys any vehicle in game now.
If you want to use old rules, that's your business, and so on.
Woh-woh-woh. Calm down, pal. Be cool. I know the GW rules no longer are the official ones.
However please do allow me to answer you quickly.
1/ My opponent and I came to an agreement. No cheating, sir, just an agreement. As far as I'm concerned, there are too many issues with Apocalypse games. Everything is overpowered.
This is why I didn't want to spend too many lines on my Apoc battle report, I saw that coming right from the start.
So take it easy, please. It's just a matter of finding a way to have fun with big armies.
2/ I didn't claim the new rule for Lifta Droppa was a mix-up, I wanted to point out some typos and errors that shouldn't exist when you have to pay for rulebooks.
Let's face it though. GW gave more love to its outdated rulebooks than the latest IA codices. Evidence?
As far as I'm concerned, it's not clear to me how Flakka Trukks and Flakka Trakks work.
P43, Flakka Trukk doesn't have any Transport Capacity BUT they have a Ramshackle special rule.
PP46-47, Flakka Trakk. Transport Capacity: The Flakka Trukk has a transport capacity of 6. Wargear: Two Big Shootas. WTF? I hope that explains my use of "mix up" and "slapdash job". No offense.
Anyway, this is not the topic at hand. My original point was: if you play a Stompa in 6th, fill it with 2x5 Burna Boyz (including 6 Meks) + 1 KFF Big Mek.
That is the only negative thing I have to say about the IA books, FW aren't really good at editing them properly. I have 5 IA books and there are a bit of mix-ups a confusions, although I haven't really seen them mix up the rules, only names of chaos warbands and such.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I have been thinking a bit about BW loadouts lately, especially shooty loadouts.
I'm building a 1000-1.500 points Mechanized army with a KoS theme, and since I have the BW upgrade sprue, I was thinking about running a regular assault BW (Shoota boys + nob or nob squad) with a deathrolla AND a shooty BW with a killkannon. My only issue is how should I build this effectively?
I coulden't find it in the rules, but my guess is that when a transport fires an ordnance weapon, the passengers also have to snap fire, like the rest of the weapons on the vehicle.
(If this woulden't be the case, I would run the BW with burnas, as they can't be fielded in much larger units anyway and they can take meks.)
The idea was that the shooty BW should follow the assaulty BW and draw fire, while reducing target units so the other assauly BW could take them in CC easier. Therefore it should move 7" and fire 24" every turn, while trying to only show its front armour. The other units in the army would be trukk boys, deffcoptas, rokkitbuggies and a dakkajet to keep the theme and present a lot of pressing targets.
The loadout of the shooty BW would be:
Killkannon, RPJ, riggers, ram, kannon and 4x big shootas.
To not waste the transport capacity, I feel like I should field a unit inside it. My first thought was burnas, but I came to think that they might not be able to shoot their burnas from inside, unless when firing overwatch at assaulting units. Should I just go with 12 shoota boys w. PK Nob for a cheap scoring unit? Or should I take lootas and make the thing extremely expensive, but more survivable?
Keep in mind that I don't play in the most hard core competitive enironment. I play against competent players with different and diverse armies, but I still want a fighting chance.
KingCracker wrote:I dont. Infact I havnt used a nob mob in over a year if I remember correctly. I personally call units like that of Ghaz, a crutch unit. Meaning, they are so powerful, you end up relying on them to do the impossible, because they usually can. Ive dont awesome without them. And now in 6th, so many people are confused what to do with them now. feth em, thats what Id say about it But yea, 6th, REALLY hoed the Nobz.
Dammit.
I had kinda figured out. In fact I haven't been running nobs for the past three months, despite the many sucessess my eight ork strong unit amassed for all of 5th ed. The LOS gimmick looked even worse than the former wound allocation shenanigans, and begged for an official GW response. It came, and Nobs became what they were intended to be: Elite boyz with two wounds, higher strenght and top tier equipment. But boyz nonetheless: Paper armor, low ld, laughable init.
Still, I've got a game coming this thursday. 1750 pts. I normally run 1500 and 2000 points lists, and torn between cutting my 2000 points battlewagon list or boosting my 1500s speed freaks with an extra trukk full of nobz, I opted for the latter.
So, this is the list I had decided upon:
Warboss on a bike, pk, bp, cybork, attack squig
5 deffkoptas with rokkits.
11-strong slugga boyz + Nob with bp and pk + trukk with reinforced ram x 5
dakkajet with ace, extra supa-shoota x 2
7 Nobz with painboy, cybork, 2x pk, 2x big choppa, 1x bp, 1x waaagh! banner + trukk with reinforced ram.
Opponent will be necrons, standard scarab farm with maybe a night scythe loaded with immortals for support. Warriors in arks, lord with mindshackles in a catacomb and a couple A-barges, probably with heavy teslas. My plan is to send those pks to deal with the arks and barges, nobs after the Spiders, rokkit koptas after the catacomb. If they arrive on time, Dakkajets will try sweeping the scarabs before them manage to get tangled and/or the Scythe when it shows up. If not, they'll assist with warriors, finishing vehicles with their Quantum Shielding down or trying to land wounds on enemy characters or whatever lies under their path. The warboss will run around putting his 5 s10 attacks where they're needed, or boosting the koptas' ld.
Now I have my doubts about the role nobs will be playing in all this. Frankly speaking, I doubt they'll be able to perform as intended. Maybe dropping a trukk and fielding my old reliable nob bikers will be better instead... Any suggestions?
Do you mean 2 DAKKAjets with supa shoota? Or you took 2 extra supa Shootas? Because if its the last one, you can only take 1 extra supa shoota. Im assuming you meant you have 2 jets though
So what is the verdict now and days boyz? Nobz worth it or not?
I am starting a 400 pt league here soon which escalates each week by 50 pts. As a joke for the first week i was going to play a megawarboss +unit of mega nobz inside a trukk but would it be better to still take basic nobz? or not?
Bonzofever wrote: 1/ My opponent and I came to an agreement. No cheating, sir, just an agreement. As far as I'm concerned, there are too many issues with Apocalypse games. Everything is overpowered. This is why I didn't want to spend too many lines on my Apoc battle report, I saw that coming right from the start. So take it easy, please. It's just a matter of finding a way to have fun with big armies.
Mind you, I did not accuse you of cheating. I merely stated that using the old rules in order to get the more powerful version of the lifta-droppa without your opponent's consent would be cheating.
2/ I didn't claim the new rule for Lifta Droppa was a mix-up, I wanted to point out some typos and errors that shouldn't exist when you have to pay for rulebooks. Let's face it though. GW gave more love to its outdated rulebooks than the latest IA codices. Evidence? As far as I'm concerned, it's not clear to me how Flakka Trukks and Flakka Trakks work. P43, Flakka Trukk doesn't have any Transport Capacity BUT they have a Ramshackle special rule. PP46-47, Flakka Trakk. Transport Capacity: The Flakka Trukk has a transport capacity of 6. Wargear: Two Big Shootas. WTF? I hope that explains my use of "mix up" and "slapdash job". No offense.
To be fair the Aeronautica is a terrible book, that's not even worth the paper it's printed on. Luckily us orks weren't victim to the biggest f***-up, them slapping super-sonic on every single flier in the book. Ironically, super-sonic disallows entering hover-mode, making every single flying transport useless. Imperial Armor: Apocalypse Second Edition a lot less so, except for some formatting errors, which (sadly)are quite common across all FW books. Flakka Trukks are Gun Trukks with a big gun choice (in this case the flakka gun), and thus lose their transport capacity. Ramshackle works exactly like for normal trukks. They can still fly across the board and explode in random places, just like an empty trukk would. Flakka Trakks are Big Trakks with a big gun choice (again, the flakka gun), reducing their transport capacity from 12 to 6. Big trakks come with two big shootas standard and then you add the flakka gun. This is the Flakka Trakk model, just add the flakka gun: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Orks/ORK_VEHICLES/ORK-BIG-TRAKK.html
Anyway, this is not the topic at hand. My original point was: if you play a Stompa in 6th, fill it with 2x5 Burna Boyz (including 6 Meks) + 1 KFF Big Mek.
The trukk will die and you will have infantry that can not even run.
A joke would be one unit of cheap nob bikers, then maybe grots for the second troop if needed.
Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:So what is the verdict now and days boyz? Nobz worth it or not?
I am starting a 400 pt league here soon which escalates each week by 50 pts. As a joke for the first week i was going to play a megawarboss +unit of mega nobz inside a trukk but would it be better to still take basic nobz? or not?
At 400 points the nobz would probably be a better alternative. You stick them in something in which a simple spit ball will make it explode, and when it does you have a bunch of slow and purposeful dudes walking on turn 1. (assuming you don't get first turn.) Then it won't be a such a joke anymore and more of a sigh. And what are you going to fill the second troop slot?
Since you were talking about joke armies I thought I would make a grot list at 400 pts.
Bigmek Shokk Attack Gun --105Pts
Heavy armor, boss pole
Gretchin x2 255
One of the runtherds has a grotprod
Jidmah wrote: Mind you, I did not accuse you of cheating. I merely stated that using the old rules in order to get the more powerful version of the lifta-droppa without your opponent's consent would be cheating.
That's for sure!
Jidmah wrote: To be fair the Aeronautica is a terrible book, that's not even worth the paper it's printed on. Luckily us orks weren't victim to the biggest f***-up, them slapping super-sonic on every single flier in the book. Ironically, super-sonic disallows entering hover-mode, making every single flying transport useless. Imperial Armor: Apocalypse Second Edition a lot less so, except for some formatting errors, which (sadly)are quite common across all FW books. Flakka Trukks are Gun Trukks with a big gun choice (in this case the flakka gun), and thus lose their transport capacity. Ramshackle works exactly like for normal trukks. They can still fly across the board and explode in random places, just like an empty trukk would. Flakka Trakks are Big Trakks with a big gun choice (again, the flakka gun), reducing their transport capacity from 12 to 6. Big trakks come with two big shootas standard and then you add the flakka gun. This is the Flakka Trakk model, just add the flakka gun: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Orks/ORK_VEHICLES/ORK-BIG-TRAKK.html
So Flakka Trukks lose their transport capacity altogether, and the Ramshackle rule only applies for a regular vehicle? That's weird but I see the point. Thanks for the Big Trakk picture, that helps. Agreed to the rest of your post about FW books!
Jidmah wrote: You could also fill it with three mekka dreads
Ohh... That sounds great and fluffy! How do you make that work? Do walkers count as 5 models? (thought that was 10)
Bonde wrote: That is the only negative thing I have to say about the IA books, FW aren't really good at editing them properly. I have 5 IA books and there are a bit of mix-ups a confusions, although I haven't really seen them mix up the rules, only names of chaos warbands and such.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I have been thinking a bit about BW loadouts lately, especially shooty loadouts.
I'm building a 1000-1.500 points Mechanized army with a KoS theme, and since I have the BW upgrade sprue, I was thinking about running a regular assault BW (Shoota boys + nob or nob squad) with a deathrolla AND a shooty BW with a killkannon. My only issue is how should I build this effectively?
I coulden't find it in the rules, but my guess is that when a transport fires an ordnance weapon, the passengers also have to snap fire, like the rest of the weapons on the vehicle.
(If this woulden't be the case, I would run the BW with burnas, as they can't be fielded in much larger units anyway and they can take meks.)
The idea was that the shooty BW should follow the assaulty BW and draw fire, while reducing target units so the other assauly BW could take them in CC easier. Therefore it should move 7" and fire 24" every turn, while trying to only show its front armour. The other units in the army would be trukk boys, deffcoptas, rokkitbuggies and a dakkajet to keep the theme and present a lot of pressing targets.
The loadout of the shooty BW would be:
Killkannon, RPJ, riggers, ram, kannon and 4x big shootas.
To not waste the transport capacity, I feel like I should field a unit inside it. My first thought was burnas, but I came to think that they might not be able to shoot their burnas from inside, unless when firing overwatch at assaulting units. Should I just go with 12 shoota boys w. PK Nob for a cheap scoring unit? Or should I take lootas and make the thing extremely expensive, but more survivable?
Keep in mind that I don't play in the most hard core competitive enironment. I play against competent players with different and diverse armies, but I still want a fighting chance.
Does anybody have any thoughts about my idea of running a shooty BW with an assaulty one? I haven't even purchased a second BW yet, so I can change just what I want. Thanks in advance.
On ork tactics; I wonder if anybody tried this idea yet:
A buggy wall; with one skorcha in every squadron. The idea is that of a can wall but with buggies. It can do roughly the same, that is provide cover & shoot at 50% hitrate. This of course only an idea if you prefer freeing up your heabvy support rather than fast - which I personally do.
So; the idea is that buggies move faster than Cans, thus your wall actually has a hammer/anvil effect built into it, as the wall will strike a turn because the boyz. AND since they can move further per turn than the boys; you don't have the risk of them blowing up on the boys (my biggest objection to can wall), while you don't have to slow your boyz down to keep distance. It's also a bit cheaper, although less strong (10 v 11 armour) & no close combat abilities.
I think can wall is superior, but again given a situation in which you want to use the heavy slots (or want two walls!), I think it can be handy & you loose less boys.
Why do you want skorchas? Rocket buggy spam is awesome, it doesn't fit with every list and there may be more suitable fast attack options.
It is dirt cheap, unpopular but one of the best options in the ork codex for a long time.
They work really well with trukk spam. Then the only issue you have is trukk spam self.
Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:So what is the verdict now and days boyz? Nobz worth it or not?
I am starting a 400 pt league here soon which escalates each week by 50 pts. As a joke for the first week i was going to play a megawarboss +unit of mega nobz inside a trukk but would it be better to still take basic nobz? or not?
At 400 points the nobz would probably be a better alternative. You stick them in something in which a simple spit ball will make it explode, and when it does you have a bunch of slow and purposeful dudes walking on turn 1. (assuming you don't get first turn.) Then it won't be a such a joke anymore and more of a sigh. And what are you going to fill the second troop slot?
Since you were talking about joke armies I thought I would make a grot list at 400 pts.
Bigmek Shokk Attack Gun --105Pts
Heavy armor, boss pole
Gretchin x2 255
One of the runtherds has a grotprod
Big Gunz 40
Kannons 2
Ehehhehe
This league requires 1 troop and 1 hq at start of it which 400 is the start. then as we progress 50 pts per week we increase to eventually standard force orgs at 750.
basic rule of thumnbs are
1) No HQ over 125 pts
2) No single model with more than 150 pts (this means like MC's and stuff)
3) No armor over 12
4) only 1 elite, FA, and Heavy until 750 force org expansion, once that happens the mitts are off.
My idea was going to be something like this... just for lawls but I think it will do well.
Does anybody have any thoughts about my idea of running a shooty BW with an assaulty one? I haven't even purchased a second BW yet, so I can change just what I want. Thanks in advance.
That's actually a basic part of my army. When I run BWs, I always start with my Boomstompa, which is outfitted with a Killkannon, 4x Rokkits, a Kannon, 'Ard Case and Grot Riggers. This guy's filled with my KFF Big Mek, and a unit of 6 Burnas with 3 Meks (a total of 7 models, including the Big Mek). That's a full 5 chances to repair Hull Points or Weapons every turn, or 8 Strength 8 shots (well, less, because of Fire Points) plus a Str7 AP3 pie plate.
My second wagon is a ride for my Meganobz, usually, and is outfitted with a Deffrolla, Grabbin' Klaw, Wrekkin' Ball, Big Shoota and Boarding Planks (as well as Armour and Riggers, and usually an 'Ard Case, though I've been experimenting without it.)
Bonde wrote:Does anybody have any thoughts about my idea of running a shooty BW with an assaulty one? I haven't even purchased a second BW yet, so I can change just what I want. Thanks in advance.
Short answer: The killkannon is a weak, short.ranged, overcosted weapon that will never be worth its points, even if you do hit that tactical squad without cover. Without even thinking, I know dozens of thing I'd rather spend that 60 points on. If you want a shooty battlewagon get either four big shootaz or rokkits and then your choice of kannon or lobba. Other than that I don't see a flaw with your idea. Keep in mind that all weapon upgrades can be stuck on the battlewagon without glueing them in place, so feel free to experiment.
whembly wrote:Now that there's some tolerance with allowing FW models in Tourny/friendly games...
Has anyone thought about using Squiggoths? Maybe put Lootas in there?
T6, W4... can never be shaken....
Hmmmmmmmm *pondering*
EDIT: fixed typo
There is a guy over at The Waagh! who owns a whole squiggoth herd, and always does ridiculously good with them, even though he is far from a competitive player. Smash and Hammer of Wrath should only have improved that list.
Math-hammering it, you get a trukk (T6 is pretty much equal to A10) with an additional "hull point", 5+ armor and no damage table (and its drawbacks, like explosions) in exchange for 10 Points, 2 models transport capacity and the big shoota. On top of that it can dish out quite a beating in close combat, as long as you don't pick a fight with WS5+ models, it hits those on a 5+. Due to the latest FAQ it is pretty good at destroying vehicles, too, as you get 3 smash attacks on the charge (3 halved = 2 +1 for charging). For just 50 points, it's a great deal, even if it uses up heavy support slots. It's still an all-or-nothing thing, a single squiggoth is going to be just as useful as a single battlewagon. Other than battlewagon it should work quite well in a footslogging list though. Since the latest rules have doubled the costs of the big gunz upgrades on squiggoths, I wouldn't recommend using them, a BS2 kannon is not worth 20 points. And yeah, I'd probably put lootaz (shooty) or nobz/MANz inside(assaulty). Burnaz might work, too, but any other units aren't that useful at 10 models.
MFletch wrote: Why do you want skorchas? Rocket buggy spam is awesome, it doesn't fit with every list and there may be more suitable fast attack options.
It is dirt cheap, unpopular but one of the best options in the ork codex for a long time.
They work really well with trukk spam. Then the only issue you have is trukk spam self.
The idea is that they have to shoot the scorcha or it will kills (well, harms) their gunline (which is prolly opposed to my horde), which guarantees more negation from my precious targets than a rokkit buggy would do.
But the idea of trukk spam is different from the wall idea, which is a footslog tactic rigth?
When considering the Killkannon, have a word with your opponent about the Supakannon in IA8 .. it is about 10 points more and has much better range and strength.
Since FW have stamped a load of things in their books as useable in 40k the Supakannon is in theory a viable gun.. though I still prefer to discuss anything non-codex before a battle.
I like the idea of a Squiggoth army!.. cost a lot to build but would look amazing!
Assuming that your opponent will let you use it, it's an awesoem bit of kit
Most of my local scene are very down on FW units. A few are OP, and get spammed whenever a FW-allowed event is scheduled, which has soured most folk on them
A lot are actually a bit over-costed, but people don't tend to bring those, for some reason
The Killcannon is ludicrously overpriced for what it does. If it was longer ranged, higher S or AP 2 it might be worth it, especially since some armies (like Marines of various colours for example) have access to AP2, S 10 pieplates, with better BS.
The Boomgun is marginally better, but also far too costly.
If I had the cash, Ive always thought making a pure grade A SnakeBites would be just awesome. You know, riding types of dinosaurs for buggies/koptas and the like, Squiggoths for the bigger vehicles, clever ideas ofr non shoota, shootas. Problem is, that would cost an arm and 2 legs to pull off
MrMoustaffa wrote: It says all units within 6", it never specifies enemy or ally or friendly or anything, it just says all units.
This is the problem with GW ... french and english rules are not written the same way ... this is the french FAQ for the KFF:
Confère une sauvegarde de couvert de 5+ à toutes les unités amies dans un rayon de 6 ps du mékano. Les véhicules amis à 6 ps ou moins comptent comme étant en profil bas et ont une sauvegarde de couvert de 5+.
It say to all friendly units !!!!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
keltikhoa wrote: I still cant believe cover save for deff rolla.... BRB says no cover saves for hits in melee. what do they honestly consider a Deff Rolla hit to be??? a shooting attack?!?
I think about the cover save like this :
For Jinx, the hover vehicle simply moves out of the way (as it could in 5th, but harder still).
For terrain cover, they can hide in holes, ditch behind cover ...
MrMoustaffa wrote: It says all units within 6", it never specifies enemy or ally or friendly or anything, it just says all units.
This is the problem with GW ... french and english rules are not written the same way ... this is the french FAQ for the KFF:
Confère une sauvegarde de couvert de 5+ à toutes les unités amies dans un rayon de 6 ps du mékano. Les véhicules amis à 6 ps ou moins comptent comme étant en profil bas et ont une sauvegarde de couvert de 5+.
It say to all friendly units !!!!
Ah but I can't speak French, for all I know, it could say all units within the field get a +2 cover save! HAHAHA!
Joking of course, but don't all the different languages for the codexes all have different wordings of the same rules? I know the german version has several differences from the english ones.
KingCracker wrote: If I had the cash, Ive always thought making a pure grade A SnakeBites would be just awesome. You know, riding types of dinosaurs for buggies/koptas and the like, Squiggoths for the bigger vehicles, clever ideas ofr non shoota, shootas. Problem is, that would cost an arm and 2 legs to pull off
Maybe, you could take Orc Boar Boyz and then put Deffguns on them from a loota/burna kit.
I've always wanted to scratch some mechanical-esque ones to use as Trukks/Battlewagons.
Most recent one are found in Imperial Armor: Apocalypse Second Edition. The only difference to older rules (like IA:8) is a heavy increase on the point costs of the big gunz upgrades.
Exactly my previous point! But again, I dont have enough free cash to bash up a good looking SnakeBites army. Though I would in a heart beat if I did for that very reason. Trex with cannons?!?! Fudge yes!
I'm reading that the nova open was won by a SW,IG Alliance using Mass blob tactics in their troops,I was wondering is this tactic is reliable for Ork players? if so, what would be the best approach?
BTW:
Thanx guys your good comments are making me a better Ork player.
A squiggoth herd must look fantastic on a board. Even if FW models are costy, I think this will be the next step for my Waaagh. I would also use 40k boyz riding boars converted from Battle sprues. STOMP STOMP STOMP!! But can you shoot when embarked in a Big Squiggoth that moved 6" during the turn?
The French rules for KFF make its use crystal-clear: only friendly units benefit from it. That's fine to me!
KingCracker wrote: Exactly my previous point! But again, I dont have enough free cash to bash up a good looking SnakeBites army. Though I would in a heart beat if I did for that very reason. Trex with cannons?!?! Fudge yes!
I think those fantasy lizardmen units would be great for this; like the triceratops one's, they look a bit squigotty.
/
Any opions on my idea of a buggy-wall vs can wall?
KingCracker wrote: Exactly my previous point! But again, I dont have enough free cash to bash up a good looking SnakeBites army. Though I would in a heart beat if I did for that very reason. Trex with cannons?!?! Fudge yes!
I think those fantasy lizardmen units would be great for this; like the triceratops one's, they look a bit squigotty.
/
Any opions on my idea of a buggy-wall vs can wall?
I used to run a rokkit buggy wall list towards the end of 5th. Compared to then, its not so good anymore (surprising I know lol) But the KFF STILL ignores 1/3 of the damage coming in, which isnt too bad. Id say if your going to run a wall list, then ask yourself if you want it fast, or horde? That will answer your questions. 6th really hoed how buggies interact with the game world, so I dont even use them anymore. Ive been running shooty koptas instead, and I still chuckle when I mow down space marines with all those shots
MechanicusOmnisWrex wrote: When considering the Killkannon, have a word with your opponent about the Supakannon in IA8 .. it is about 10 points more and has much better range and strength.
Since FW have stamped a load of things in their books as useable in 40k the Supakannon is in theory a viable gun.. though I still prefer to discuss anything non-codex before a battle.
I like the idea of a Squiggoth army!.. cost a lot to build but would look amazing!
Ascalam wrote: Assuming that your opponent will let you use it, it's an awesoem bit of kit
Most of my local scene are very down on FW units. A few are OP, and get spammed whenever a FW-allowed event is scheduled, which has soured most folk on them
A lot are actually a bit over-costed, but people don't tend to bring those, for some reason
The Killcannon is ludicrously overpriced for what it does. If it was longer ranged, higher S or AP 2 it might be worth it, especially since some armies (like Marines of various colours for example) have access to AP2, S 10 pieplates, with better BS.
The Boomgun is marginally better, but also far too costly.
Actually I completely forgot about the supa kannon. It looks amazing, and costs the same as the BW upgrade sprue if you buy it with a Battlewagon from Forge World!
I can't remember the rules for it though. I have quite a few IA books, but volume 8 has been sold out for quite some time, which is pretty annoying, beacuse have been looking to buy it. I just noticed that is has come back in stock, but can someone remind me how much better the supa kannon is than the killkannon?
I have quite a few units from FW, but somehow the guys I play with aren't fans of using the rules for FW models. I think its because they don't really know them, but they have no problems with the people using the models to count as other models, (The Daemon player for example used a Blood Slaughterer as a Daemon prince.) Maybe I should start lobbying for the use of FW units in the game, because I am a huge FW fanboy.
. Id say if your going to run a wall list, then ask yourself if you want it fast, or horde? That will answer your questions. 6th really hoed how buggies interact with the game world, so I dont even use them anymore. Ive been running shooty koptas instead, and I still chuckle when I mow down space marines with all those shots
1. I want something fast with my horde (shooty/horde built), that will absorve shots for my elites to come closer, has some antitank/anti infantry power & in case of scorchatrack could assault a squard of infranty-artillery or psykers. Don't have any trucks or fast things.. just some looted wagon's as transport, which need distraction. I also like the idea of both, with just 3 kans running behind.
I'd hold off on FW squiggoths if I were you guys. The 2013 GW product leak gave us a few things which seem interesting like Squiggotaurs and teleporta Nobz so if I were you buy it if you play mega battles but I suspect in the near future just like we had the Dakkajet we too will soon find new orky models for us and perhaps even a new codex
But usually things that big don't come into regular 40k and just go to Forge World. And it's still a rumor.
I agree, i am still regardless going to hold off till a new codex from buying anything that isn't standard or simply a good proxy like orky AA guns perhaps. the idea seems solid enough even as a rumor to make me take some real 2nd guesses before heavy investments.
. Id say if your going to run a wall list, then ask yourself if you want it fast, or horde? That will answer your questions. 6th really hoed how buggies interact with the game world, so I dont even use them anymore. Ive been running shooty koptas instead, and I still chuckle when I mow down space marines with all those shots
1. I want something fast with my horde (shooty/horde built), that will absorve shots for my elites to come closer, has some antitank/anti infantry power & in case of scorchatrack could assault a squard of infranty-artillery or psykers. Don't have any trucks or fast things.. just some looted wagon's as transport, which need distraction. I also like the idea of both, with just 3 kans running behind.
2. you run kopta's with big shoota's then?
Well if you want something fast, buggies would probably fit the bill. Though I will admit, I havnt used them since 6th started.
Yes, I run 5 bigshoota koptas 1 with a saw and they ride with the biker boss. Multiwound models that move like lightning and shoot so many str5 shots its crazy, they are perfect ride alongs for LoS!. Mow down some bodies before a charge, or split last moment and have the boss assault something and the buzzsaw assault another, quick way to pop a couple vehicles a turn
Do we know anything about the "flying fortress" other than its name?
- it might be just a bigger version of the ork bommer, borrowing its name from the real-world WW2 heavy bomber
- or something much orkier, e.g. some kind of flying/hovering battlewagon?
OK lads, it seems like I'm off to Throne of Skulls in January.
I pretty much have a list in mind, though there's a variant I'm a bit stuck on whether or not to take.
It's not hyper-competitive either way, but not as bad as a pure-DeffWing force.
2 x Warboss - MA, BP, CB.
6 Meganobs
Wagon, 2 BS, Riggers, RPJ, Plates, Ram
6 Meganobs
Wagon, 2 BS, Riggers, RPJ, Plates, Ram
2 x 10 Lootas (meks?)
2 x Wagon - 4 BS, Riggers, Ram, Plates.
Each Loota mob + wagon is worth about the same as two dakkajets with all the gubbins.
The question is, 1 loota wagon and two dakkajets, or 2 loota wagons?
Dakkajets obviously give me some flier goodness, but also drops the number of AV14 blocks sitting in front of my opponent down to three. Target saturation being a big thing, this makes it a whole lot easier to deal with my wagons in the first turn. It also lowers the number of ground units I have available for denial.
Clang wrote: Do we know anything about the "flying fortress" other than its name?
- it might be just a bigger version of the ork bommer, borrowing its name from the real-world WW2 heavy bomber
- or something much orkier, e.g. some kind of flying/hovering battlewagon?
My guess is probably this thing from Space Marine the video game it appears around 9:40
Well considering an Ork BattleFortress is basically, a really big and badass Battlewagon, Id imagine the flier in question would be done in similar fashion. But like the Battle Fortress, I bet its probably APOC only
The spaceship in the video if from the GW apocalypse rule book, the MinePig, made from a lemonade bottle and a bunch of scrap (about the last time there was a mention by GW that you could make models out of non-GW stuff).
I'm using the C17 model by Chad Valley (from argos around £12) as a good basis for an Ork Bommer from IA8.. I'm still converting it up with more shootas n turrets but it looked great in the last game of Apoc (painted red with big yellow flames across it).
I'm quite excited by the list of possible releases that were rumoured, in fact any Ork release gets me going!
...
As for the Loota Wagon VS Dakkajet.. My last game saw my shoota battlewagon with 'ard case get blown up with the first shot fired (lucky it was but still) while my Dakkajets were a nightmare for my opponent all the way through the game!
I'd have to say do what orks do best, spam! If your gonna have 3 BWs and a possible fourth, try the fourth first. Then might as well try the dakka jets later. A whole lot of sampling going on now!
Automatically Appended Next Post: In other news, teleporting nobz sounds like fun
I think GW's given up on trying to convince Ork player to go "Full GW", so they're just making sure (because we're probably the largest Xeno group out there) that the Ork models are cool enough that we're willing to buy them.
So, just want to make sure I was playing the big gunz right, because they seem a little insane.
Basically, you can shoot at the artillery all you want, but all it's crew will count as T7 correct? However, they do not use the gun's armor save, so the grots are T7 with no armor save, even when I line up 8 in front of the guns?
Because if I was playing that right, holy crap are those things tough. I was up against IG AND Tau, and they just could not kill them. I mean, the amount of hits they can take is ridiculous, and cover saves are rediculously easy to get as well. The only real "weakness" as far as I can tell is that they cannot snap fire, and so cannot fire overwatch or shoot at flyers. Otherwise, they are some of the most durable shooting you can get for their points, especially in low pts games like 1000pts or so.
Was I playing this right? Because I"m going to feel like a real jerk if I wasnt
MrMoustaffa wrote: So, just want to make sure I was playing the big gunz right, because they seem a little insane.
Basically, you can shoot at the artillery all you want, but all it's crew will count as T7 correct? However, they do not use the gun's armor save, so the grots are T7 with no armor save, even when I line up 8 in front of the guns?
Because if I was playing that right, holy crap are those things tough. I was up against IG AND Tau, and they just could not kill them. I mean, the amount of hits they can take is ridiculous, and cover saves are rediculously easy to get as well. The only real "weakness" as far as I can tell is that they cannot snap fire, and so cannot fire overwatch or shoot at flyers. Otherwise, they are some of the most durable shooting you can get for their points, especially in low pts games like 1000pts or so.
Was I playing this right? Because I"m going to feel like a real jerk if I wasnt
nah you are playing it right beleive it or not, You can make the kannons the front of the unit so they can make saves of 3+, when they have wounds you can move the back up gretch up front to soak the hits since the ones not manning the gun are fine to move long as they are in coherency and the firing model isn't the one moving. Never actually found any rules which said artillery cannot be used on overwatch or shoot at flyers though...
They are hellishly durable until assault anyway then they go to base profiles and the guns are ignored.
keep in mind the frag shot can't be fired at flyers or on overwatch cause templates and blasts can do that. But the solid shot works.
MrMoustaffa wrote:Come on, you know any proppa ork player worth his teef wants to field a giant army of Orks riding dinosaurs with kannons strapped to their backs.
I mean, how could you NOT want to field that?
Not fast enough.
I see this, and I think slow and cumbersome. No matter how much dakka it has, it's just not going to be fast enough. If only there were some way to -
There we go! Throw a couple of dakkajet engines on there and THEN you've got a propa krumpin machine.
@Big Mek Wurzogg, the reason why I say they can't snap fire at all is because it specifically says in the rulebook under the artillery rules that they cannot do so. Since they can't snap fire, they can't hit flyers, and they can't do overwatch.
That said though, they are still definitely worth it, no question about it.
@Ailaros, that's the most beautiful thing I've ever seen...
MrMoustaffa wrote: @Big Mek Wurzogg, the reason why I say they can't snap fire at all is because it specifically says in the rulebook under the artillery rules that they cannot do so. Since they can't snap fire, they can't hit flyers, and they can't do overwatch.
That said though, they are still definitely worth it, no question about it.
@Ailaros, that's the most beautiful thing I've ever seen...
To be fair, I don't think hardly anyone knew that. I only found out by accident. And it's not exactly a big problem as far as I can tell. We have better things to shoot at flyers with, and if you're doing overwatch, the guns are already dead.
One question i've got though is just how aggressive are people being with them? I'd imagine you need to get them almost right up against your deployment edge for them to be effective correct?
Considering that I get to place half the terrain on the board, I usually put a huge ruin right on the edge of my deployment area and put them there, if I deploy second, I sometimes even put them out in the open across from something I want to shoot down ASAP, like a manticore. You'd be surprised how well 3+ armor on those kannons does.
Being on the upper level of a ruin also works great to keep assault units busy. After all, they have to get out of the ruin again after they have wiped out your 60 points of gretchin.
Used my DAKKAjet in a match last night. I forgot on turn 2 to roll for it (teaches me to keep it on a table behind me) turn 3 it comes in at a real steep angle, and shoots a Harpy out of the sky like nobodies business, and then I move it into reserves next turn. My plan was, I would come back next turn and pulverize some gants, but my opponent conceded before that happened. So it did awesome in the fact that I shot at the Harpy with a x20 boyz mob AND x7 lootas to no effect. I hit it a couple times that was it. I think Im going to be in love with the Jets
Yea KC, I was skeptical before I used them, then kept forgetting they are TL... But considering I forget most tl rerolls I love the potential they bring(if I can remember to waaagh for double shots, reroll all my tl shots...)
6th seems to have me pumping up on bigshootas and anything thats TL. So much so, I wish our big gunz crews could take something that had a lot of shots, like a hopped up assault cannon or similar. Shooting is my bread and butter anymore
but if you put the kannon at the front, wouldnt that mean it takes wounds first, which means that if the enemy shoots any antitank weapons at it they can kill it quickly?
I bought 5 extra grot krew for my kannons so I had 8 T7 meatshields to catch wounds before anything would even hit the kannon. Worked great for me. Is sticking the gun up there with the risk really worth the +3 armor save
MrMoustaffa wrote: So, just want to make sure I was playing the big gunz right, because they seem a little insane.
Basically, you can shoot at the artillery all you want, but all it's crew will count as T7 correct? However, they do not use the gun's armor save, so the grots are T7 with no armor save, even when I line up 8 in front of the guns?
Because if I was playing that right, holy crap are those things tough. I was up against IG AND Tau, and they just could not kill them. I mean, the amount of hits they can take is ridiculous, and cover saves are rediculously easy to get as well. The only real "weakness" as far as I can tell is that they cannot snap fire, and so cannot fire overwatch or shoot at flyers. Otherwise, they are some of the most durable shooting you can get for their points, especially in low pts games like 1000pts or so.
Was I playing this right? Because I"m going to feel like a real jerk if I wasnt
Nah they are just that tuff.
A very safe killpoint imo, they are low priority + hard to kill, almost never in one turn. So opponent will not be tempted to attack them. If it's the heavy support can hold objectives gametype, I just leave them alove even if in the open. Only thing that ever killed my big guns was a tryrannofex or whatever flying-demon-prince-like bug that was. Group of worriers got stuck in on my other cannons & didn't kill em in 3 turns till game ended (I lost horribly regardless). Grots actually got a wound on one hehe.
oooh and I read I can even give them a cover save now? But I always put half the crew in front bc I don't want to loose the cannon.
So learned something last tourney on fliers if you are going to shoot at one place a model 18 inches away and right in front of it. If you get a crew stunned result it can't go more than 18 and will crash if it goes less and is destroyed if its base is within 1 inch of an opponents model. Lost my dakka jet the turn it came in that way =(
pepe5454 wrote: So learned something last tourney on fliers if you are going to shoot at one place a model 18 inches away and right in front of it. If you get a crew stunned result it can't go more than 18 and will crash if it goes less and is destroyed if its base is within 1 inch of an opponents model. Lost my dakka jet the turn it came in that way =(
But can't you pivot the dakkajet at the start of its turn before it has to go 18 inches? I thought it was like "begin turn. Point Dakkajet in direction you want. Go straight 18"."
pepe5454 wrote: So learned something last tourney on fliers if you are going to shoot at one place a model 18 inches away and right in front of it. If you get a crew stunned result it can't go more than 18 and will crash if it goes less and is destroyed if its base is within 1 inch of an opponents model. Lost my dakka jet the turn it came in that way =(
But can't you pivot the dakkajet at the start of its turn before it has to go 18 inches? I thought it was like "begin turn. Point Dakkajet in direction you want. Go straight 18"."
Im having trouble understanding what pepe is getting at. But yes Lootaboy, your correct. You pivot on the spot upto 90 degrees and then go in a strait line from there. Im not seeing how you could possibly lose a DAKKAjet as it arrives from reserves like Pepe is saying. Can someone explain that to me? Or am I just not reading what he is saying?
I'm considering dropping pk on Nob in at least half my units, and using those points towards more Big Gunz. I just feel that three kannons with st 8 ap 3 bs 3 can deal more hurt then Nobz with the pks in this edition.
Im even considering dropping all pk on my nobs for big gunz and more deff koptas for tank hunting.
Its a sound thought TBH. The PK just seems to of lost its sting. Its to easy to either bait it, or kill it out right, so whats the point in having them?
A flyer that's stunned/immobolized cannot pivot and has to move the same speed as the previous turn. Meaning if you moved combat it needs to move combat. If it moved 36 you need to move 36.
Not with flyers, I believe it's part of locked velocity but the brb is not on hand. Still if the flyer can't move 18" without landing on enemies it's gone.
From the rules for crew stunned "The vehicle can only snap shots until the end of the next turn and cannot move unless it is a Zooming flyer. In which case it can only move 18" and cannot turn."
So if it moved 18 the previous turn you have 50/50 chance to kill it on a penetrating hit instead of one in six. On a 3 it is stunned and you kill it on a 5 its locked and you kill it and a 6 it is dead.
MrMoustaffa wrote: but if you put the kannon at the front, wouldnt that mean it takes wounds first, which means that if the enemy shoots any antitank weapons at it they can kill it quickly?
I bought 5 extra grot krew for my kannons so I had 8 T7 meatshields to catch wounds before anything would even hit the kannon. Worked great for me. Is sticking the gun up there with the risk really worth the +3 armor save
Just put one kannon in front, and leave the other in the back If he shoots anti-tank he kills one and is then shooting gretchin. If he doesn't... well T7 W2 3+ doesn't exactly die fast.
Ailaros wrote: I guess the moral of the story is that if you're going to move 18", move 19" instead. At least that way you'd be velocity locked in cruising speed.
By the stealth edit on the recent BRBFAQ, you'd have to go 36" if you moved at cruising speed before.
KingCracker wrote: Its a sound thought TBH. The PK just seems to of lost its sting. Its to easy to either bait it, or kill it out right, so whats the point in having them?
That's what I'm seeing too. The nob gets challenged by the SM Sgt and either dies or goes to back and isn't used.-for 25 pts. I'm just gonna try running deffkoptas w/ tl rokkits to vehicle hunt and bikers to gun down hoarders. Ive even been fairly successful using bikes vs terminators.
The nob does well enough in challenges. Obviously ideally you do not want them, and should try to avoid them.
Serg. only gets 3 attacks and you have 2 wounds. You have to count it as unlucky if you die, though losing one wound is easy enough and the klaw has only killed one model.
The reason the one guy might not have gotten a lot of posts on his thread about nobs in boyz mobz is because I posted the same thing a few weeks ago http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/474623.page Maybe they were a bit burned out on it? No idea to be honest
There's a lot of good stuff in that thread, arguing for pretty much every set up you could imagine. I'd dig through it and find certain bitz, but right now I'm a bit tired. May do so later though.
MrMoustaffa wrote: but if you put the kannon at the front, wouldnt that mean it takes wounds first, which means that if the enemy shoots any antitank weapons at it they can kill it quickly?
I bought 5 extra grot krew for my kannons so I had 8 T7 meatshields to catch wounds before anything would even hit the kannon. Worked great for me. Is sticking the gun up there with the risk really worth the +3 armor save
dealing 2 real wounds to toughness t7 is easier said than done especially with 3+ armor and if you are smart cover saves. But yeah hypothedically it can happen. But then again whatever was firing at your kannons must be amazing and wasting its gunfire because simply put that could be wiping much scarier things for sure. Like I said I normally have my kannons in front until they actually start becoming damaged then i move the meatshields up to absorb shots while the gretching maning the gun never move.
Here is a strange little list of mine that has been seeing a lot of success. Tabled my opponent (BA) on bottom of turn three last night. Outflank with the Boss attached to the Koptas, and then just push the other army off the table.
HQ:
Biker Boss w/ PK, Cybork
Big Mek w/ KFF, ‘eavy armor, cybork
I was feeling like that for a while, but I have since embraced the shooty ork army whole heartedly. That doesn't mean I'm avoiding CC, but I am doing A LOT more shooting before committing myself to the charge.
matphat wrote: I was feeling like that for a while, but I have since embraced the shooty ork army whole heartedly. That doesn't mean I'm avoiding CC, but I am doing A LOT more shooting before committing myself to the charge.
It probably also has to do with the 80+ AoBR boyz that I haven't the slightest bit of motivation to convert...
Has anybody done a good slugga-shoota conversion that'd be willing to post pics?
matphat wrote: I was feeling like that for a while, but I have since embraced the shooty ork army whole heartedly. That doesn't mean I'm avoiding CC, but I am doing A LOT more shooting before committing myself to the charge.
It probably also has to do with the 80+ AoBR boyz that I haven't the slightest bit of motivation to convert...
Has anybody done a good slugga-shoota conversion that'd be willing to post pics?
I've heard all you really need to do is just saw the arms off and glue the shoota arms on. I don't have spare shoota boy arms yet, or else I would have already done so. Shouldn't be that hard to be honest.
As for the transition of orks from melee to shooty, I was an IG player first, so shooting comes naturally. It sucks because I chose this army ON PURPOSE for close combat ability and shooting potential, only to have assault pulled out from under my feet, but oh well, orkz aren't as shafted as some armies were (think about how DE feel) I'm lucky that my biker horde can still stomp some faces in as they all have fleet no matter what, can never be slowed down, T5, and get a free hammer of wrath, but they're probably the only units I have that I'll actually plan on being in combat at some point, and that's only after I've softened up what I want to charge, AND I'm charging in at least 2 or more groups of bikes to be sure at least one nob gets to swing with his klaw.
Also, Matphat, your list literally hurts my brain You should post a batrep up using that list, I'd love to see how you're using it. I'm still learning orkz, so I'd love to see how you're using all these crazy units. The outflanking biker boss with deffkoptas in particular sounds like a lot of fun and I've been trying to figure out how to work it into my army at higher point levels. Also, what happened to the buzzsaw? Need the points elsewhere?
You do NOT need to have Shoota arms for AoBR Slugga Shoota conversion. Just a bit of plasticard or metal tubing of the proper size (pen refils work, when the ink's out). Just extend the barrels a little. After all, it's not like a Shoota boy wouldn't have a nice Choppa, too.
matphat wrote: I was feeling like that for a while, but I have since embraced the shooty ork army whole heartedly. That doesn't mean I'm avoiding CC, but I am doing A LOT more shooting before committing myself to the charge.
It probably also has to do with the 80+ AoBR boyz that I haven't the slightest bit of motivation to convert...
Has anybody done a good slugga-shoota conversion that'd be willing to post pics?
I've heard all you really need to do is just saw the arms off and glue the shoota arms on. I don't have spare shoota boy arms yet, or else I would have already done so. Shouldn't be that hard to be honest.
As for the transition of orks from melee to shooty, I was an IG player first, so shooting comes naturally. It sucks because I chose this army ON PURPOSE for close combat ability and shooting potential, only to have assault pulled out from under my feet, but oh well, orkz aren't as shafted as some armies were (think about how DE feel) I'm lucky that my biker horde can still stomp some faces in as they all have fleet no matter what, can never be slowed down, T5, and get a free hammer of wrath, but they're probably the only units I have that I'll actually plan on being in combat at some point, and that's only after I've softened up what I want to charge, AND I'm charging in at least 2 or more groups of bikes to be sure at least one nob gets to swing with his klaw.
Also, Matphat, your list literally hurts my brain You should post a batrep up using that list, I'd love to see how you're using it. I'm still learning orkz, so I'd love to see how you're using all these crazy units. The outflanking biker boss with deffkoptas in particular sounds like a lot of fun and I've been trying to figure out how to work it into my army at higher point levels. Also, what happened to the buzzsaw? Need the points elsewhere?
I suppose there's a predispostion that effects it too. People that played shooty armies before, tend to keep with them. Sadly, mine were Nids and a very poor CSM force.
I love my Ork biker army and I really should get them all painted...Heck, I feel like merging my bikes with my Trukks and getting MOAR SPEED! (Though I'd lose my precious deffkoptas and jet...)
Matphat, I agree, you should really post some batreps on that list!
Rather than create another thread about orks I'll just ask it here.
In a Green Tide- stick bombs yes or no. thats a lot of points with a green tide list if its 1pt per model. enough for another 30 boys.
Kannons- the box comes with one kannon and 2 grots but my codex says you can have more. the only thing is i cant find grots for the cannons. am i supposed to just use some grots from the grot boxes?
wowsmash wrote: Rather than create another thread about orks I'll just ask it here.
In a Green Tide- stick bombs yes or no. thats a lot of points with a green tide list if its 1pt per model. enough for another 30 boys.
Kannons- the box comes with one kannon and 2 grots but my codex says you can have more. the only thing is i cant find grots for the cannons. am i supposed to just use some grots from the grot boxes?
1. Since we're always I2, and we don't get a bonus for furious charge anymore, I don't really see a need for them.
2. As for kannonz, I'd buy toy ones for far cheaper, and then just use the regular grotz boxes for krew. The only difference between the two is that grot artillery krew don't have any gear whatsoever, but I don't think most people will make a big deal out of it.
matphat wrote: I was feeling like that for a while, but I have since embraced the shooty ork army whole heartedly. That doesn't mean I'm avoiding CC, but I am doing A LOT more shooting before committing myself to the charge.
It probably also has to do with the 80+ AoBR boyz that I haven't the slightest bit of motivation to convert...
Has anybody done a good slugga-shoota conversion that'd be willing to post pics?
IG Grenade launchers. They are the perfect size for a shoota, and most IG players dont use them, so you can score a pile of them for cheap. Heres a pic of some WIP of boyz being batch painted.
I can see 8 at a first glance. 3rd row back, from the second guy to the left over to the 3rd from the right all have them.
4th row back pretty much all of them have them.
I'm sure you've got more hidden in there but I agree, I'm only able to spot them because I've got so many of the damn things
Most IG players will literally have so many they'll practically give them to you. Same goes for mortars and heavy bolters. They're basically paperweights for our codex, so you may want to try and score those while you're at it. Mortars would make awesome gun barrels for big shootas for example.
Wow, that's fantastic. Were I not a guard player, I'd have no clue.
They'd probably be invisible if you did a few things to explicitly ork them up (like putting one of the iconic air cooling jackets on the outside or some of the hilarious ork antiaircraft sights.
Guess I finally have something to do with my grenade launchers now...
Oh and flamers. I've seen skorcha weapons that use guard flamers that look phenominal and, likewise, it's not like your local guard player is going to have any of THOSE just lying around en masse.
In regard to PK nobs in Boyz squads, i have found that they are only useful if you plan on tar-pitting a walker. even then, you have to be very careful about how you arrange and move your models so that he can get within 2in on his initiative, but is not able to make it into BtB at all.
Ailaros wrote: The stikkbombz bitz look so cool though. Unless I'm wrong, there are some models that get them for free, so at least you have a chance to model them.
Warbosses, Stormboyz, end of list. I just have them modeled on boyz/nobz/vehicles. It's not like anyone outside of ork players know what those are
Ailaros wrote: The stikkbombz bitz look so cool though. Unless I'm wrong, there are some models that get them for free, so at least you have a chance to model them.
Warbosses, Stormboyz, end of list. I just have them modeled on boyz/nobz/vehicles. It's not like anyone outside of ork players know what those are
yeah that's how I was about it. All my boyz are blood axes, so it felt wierd to not have each one carrying a few stick bombs. They look awesome on the orks too, which I think is my favorite part.
But I would never pay points for them, that's madness
Although in a biker nob group, I may consider it. Thats 5pts to make sure your painboy and big choppas get to swing before other orks/necrons, not really that bad.
Ailaros wrote: The stikkbombz bitz look so cool though. Unless I'm wrong, there are some models that get them for free, so at least you have a chance to model them.
Warbosses, Stormboyz, end of list. I just have them modeled on boyz/nobz/vehicles. It's not like anyone outside of ork players know what those are
Yeah, you can't over model a model. My MegaNobz have had Kombi-Skorchas wih a Rokkit stuck on since 4th edition (how they are actually molded) and people repeatedly would get confused in 5th when I'd run 2 Rokkit, 2 Skorcha, 2 Twin linked in a unit. I painted the Twin linked red, Rokkits yellow, and Skorchas orange to help differentiate them and people would ask why I just wouldn't cut the Rokkits off the ones that didn't have them. Well now in 6th with no would allocation spread, it makes more sense to run the whole unit with the same load out.
Somehow I knew cuttin the Rokkits off would have been a mistake. Just have a clear list and know what you paid for and here shouldn't be a problem. One of my Rokkit boyz in my only shoota mob has a Tankbusta bomb in his non-Rokkit arm. Why? Because it looks cool!
Also, @ Stikkbomms question, Stikkbomms are now rather more useful for, say, Sluggas, as they give a short-range template weapon to a unit that hasn't had one since Boyz could take Burnas. Also, imagine assaulting a building with them! 30d3 hits!
Anvildude wrote: Also, @ Stikkbomms question, Stikkbomms are now rather more useful for, say, Sluggas, as they give a short-range template weapon to a unit that hasn't had one since Boyz could take Burnas. Also, imagine assaulting a building with them! 30d3 hits!
Unfortunately, you can only throw one per unit. And against MC's and vehicles, it's only S3.
However, if you see bastions a lot, I know that you can throw as many grenades as you want to inside that to hit the occupants. That many S3 hits is bound to kill something
Hey goodfellaz, I would like to have your thoughts on this army list, with an ally force from the Death Korps of Krieg Codex. A penny for your thoughts
[1750 points]
1x Warbiker Warboss w/ PK, Attack Squig, Cybork Body, Boss Pole, Shoota-Skorcha 13x Lootas inc. Mek w/ Rokkit 15x Shootaboyz inc. Nob w/ Big Shoota, 'Eavy Armour, Boss Pole 15x Shootaboyz inc. Nob w/ Big Shoota, 'Eavy Armour, Boss Pole 10x Shootaboyz 15x Gretchins + Runtherd 3x Deffkoptas w/ Big Shootas 1x Dakkajet w/ extra SupaShoota 1x Dakkajet w/ extra SupaShoota
1x Lord Commissar 3x Heavy Mortars 10x Engineers (with demolition charge) in Hades Breaching Drill 10x Engineers (with demolition charge) in Hades Breaching Drill
1x Aegis Defense Line w/ Quadricanon
Some units come from reserve: Deffkoptaz & Big Boss, Dakkajets + Engineers via Deep Strike. Shootaboyz try to hold their position, maybe with cover saves from ruins. Aegis Defense Line with the Grotz and Lootas. The Commissar + mortars stay near a table edge.
I was thinking about switching Lootas for Tankbustas, either 11 with Nob or 10 in Trukk.
I'll see what I can do about putting together some batreps for the next few games I play with this list. I'll be honest, I'm not sure HOW it manages to do so well. It's obviously a bad list. XD
In the mean time, I can give you the basic strat.
Deployment
Buggies are placed on the flanks in as much cover as I can give them. Wagons /w boyz and kff inside are set facing the biggest threat(s) on the board. Lootas, and lobbas are placed behind the ADL in as long a string as I can build to block back field and hopefully have range on the whole board. Koptas and Boss are in reserve for outflank and Trukk with 12 boyz is put back field to hold objective and run interference for lootas and lobbas incase of deep striking units.
General strat.
Round 1-2
Wagons rush forward to press the high priority targets. I ignore terrain and just rely on the KFF here. I try and put out as much fire in the first two rounds as possible to soften up the opponents hard hitters. I ignore anything not infantry.
Buggies flank and try and get side or back shots on armor
Lootas go for as many glances on lightly armored foes and hope for the occasional pens. Mostly a suppression unit right now.
Lobbas assist the BWs with softening up main targets.
Trukk boyz have a party int he back.
Round 3
If wagons are still up and running, they start deffrolling priority targets. Boys are usually on the ground by now.
Buggies are now jockying for rear armor shots.
Lootas will start dividing fire to hard to kill targets like terms and they like.
Lobbas will continue to soften up infantry
The boss and Koptas are in by now and are either laying down suppressing fire or engaged in CC and really hurting enemy back field morale.
Trukk Boyz are tarpitting deepstrikers, or sitting pretty on objectives.
Round 4-5
I've usually taken some heavy losses by now, but I'm also usually holding twice as many points as my opponent as well. At this point he's trying to play catch up and never makes it by games end.
In spite of it's unusual composition, this army is 5 for 5 against Eldar, Nids, BA, SM, GK. I have no idea how, but yeah, that's the gist of it.
I haven't used it against the CSM player who regularly beats everyone in our area, but he also plays tournament level and is obviously playing a very different game than most of us casual people.
I really doubt I'd be able to beat him even with the most optimized Ork list available.
Ailaros wrote: The stikkbombz bitz look so cool though. Unless I'm wrong, there are some models that get them for free, so at least you have a chance to model them.
Warbosses, Stormboyz, end of list. I just have them modeled on boyz/nobz/vehicles. It's not like anyone outside of ork players know what those are
Right, I mean, I could always use stikkbombs as choppas, right? Just another one of those things an ork uses to bash people.
matphat wrote: I'll see what I can do about putting together some batreps for the next few games I play with this list. I'll be honest, I'm not sure HOW it manages to do so well. It's obviously a bad list. XD In the mean time, I can give you the basic strat.
Why it's not a bad list at all -- it is well balanced for 6th edition games. You have to be able to take and hold objectives to win the game. The ADL is a nice and clean cover save for precious units, the Big Mek protects a double BW wall with plenty of boyz in it. What really hurts is Deffkoptas + Warboss on bike. This is how I played him and with a shoota-skorcha he deals a whole lotta damage. Plus in some missions, Fast Attack choices are scoring units, so Deffkoptaz can turbo-boost and have a great cover save for the last turn.
However be careful against armies with effective flyer units, such as Vendettas for IG.
Also, how come your Lootas can last more than one turn being only a 5-man unit each? This is what strikes me more about your list. Is the ADL *that* effective for cover saves?
It can be done. You can do the same thing with shooting it with shootas as well. And Im pretty sure you can assault the unit inside if you blow the transport up in the shooting phase. Id have to re-read to be 100% sure.
matphat wrote: I'll see what I can do about putting together some batreps for the next few games I play with this list. I'll be honest, I'm not sure HOW it manages to do so well. It's obviously a bad list. XD
In the mean time, I can give you the basic strat.
Why it's not a bad list at all -- it is well balanced for 6th edition games. You have to be able to take and hold objectives to win the game. The ADL is a nice and clean cover save for precious units, the Big Mek protects a double BW wall with plenty of boyz in it. What really hurts is Deffkoptas + Warboss on bike. This is how I played him and with a shoota-skorcha he deals a whole lotta damage. Plus in some missions, Fast Attack choices are scoring units, so Deffkoptaz can turbo-boost and have a great cover save for the last turn.
However be careful against armies with effective flyer units, such as Vendettas for IG.
Also, how come your Lootas can last more than one turn being only a 5-man unit each?
This is what strikes me more about your list. Is the ADL *that* effective for cover saves?
never thought about using kombi skorcha on outflanking warboss... hmmm!!!
I run lots of 5 man loota squads in smaller games, or sometimes 7/7/6 in a 2k list and have success w/o bringing an ADL... I just always without a doubt deploy them in cover (or hold them in reserve if i can easily move thru cover onto board/going 2nd/vs heavy flyer lists... walking on board and snapfiring with lootas isn't so bad when you are already going to be shooting flyers right?)...I also almost invariably go-to-ground in area terrain for +2, typically giving the lootas a 3+ or the ever so coveted 2+ once in a while.... I don't think the point investment in the ADL is necessary for small loota squads to work, you just have to pretty much always go to ground it seems.. Pray for no flamers, and I keep a mob of shoota boys between my 3 loota squads protecting home base/scoring/protecting weedy lil gretchin when they walk on
I would love to bring the ADL but the 50 points... and more points for quad gun etc... Dissuades me.. I do need to test it out more though. At this point I'd rather bring 3 squads 7/7/6 strong respectively than 7/7 (or even shave 15 off else where and do 3 x5) + ADL & quad gun
just my 2 teef etc
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KingCracker wrote: It can be done. You can do the same thing with shooting it with shootas as well. And Im pretty sure you can assault the unit inside if you blow the transport up in the shooting phase. Id have to re-read to be 100% sure.
correctumundo!
only the unit that actually blows the ride up can assault occupants though, I think.
ran into it last night in game, necron barge with overlord shoots battlewagon doing nothing, gauss array from ghost ark w/ warriors inside rapid fire and wreck all 4 hull points, necron lord unable to charge occupants as he didn't blow the ride up.
we didn't look rule up but deferred to our memories because we were mutually near positive that was the way it went down from previous encounters.
skyfi wrote: never thought about using kombi skorcha on outflanking warboss... hmmm!!!
Actually it's pretty awesome, only 5 points that can be so killy. Last time I destroyed 6 Eldars in one shot... In addition, if the Big Boss is charged, he can deal D3 S5 PA4 hits, if he didn't use it before. That can be useful if your opponent has power weapons up in the front line
skyfi wrote: I run lots of 5 man loota squads in smaller games, or sometimes 7/7/6 in a 2k list and have success w/o bringing an ADL... I just always without a doubt deploy them in cover (or hold them in reserve if i can easily move thru cover onto board/going 2nd/vs heavy flyer lists... walking on board and snapfiring with lootas isn't so bad when you are already going to be shooting flyers right?)...I also almost invariably go-to-ground in area terrain for +2, typically giving the lootas a 3+ or the ever so coveted 2+ once in a while.... I don't think the point investment in the ADL is necessary for small loota squads to work, you just have to pretty much always go to ground it seems.. Pray for no flamers, and I keep a mob of shoota boys between my 3 loota squads protecting home base/scoring/protecting weedy lil gretchin when they walk on
I would love to bring the ADL but the 50 points... and more points for quad gun etc... Dissuades me.. I do need to test it out more though. At this point I'd rather bring 3 squads 7/7/6 strong respectively than 7/7 (or even shave 15 off else where and do 3 x5) + ADL & quad gun
Well I didn't think about putting Lootas on reserve, but that's a good point given the 48" range of Deff Gunz. I also see the benefit of having smaller units, it's easier to shoot at tanks on the flank that way. You're right about ADL too, it is costy. However you can effectively shoot at enemy units coming from reserve -- such as flyers, Eldar Swooping Hawks, etc.
skyfi wrote: never thought about using kombi skorcha on outflanking warboss... hmmm!!!
Actually it's pretty awesome, only 5 points that can be so killy. Last time I destroyed 6 Eldars in one shot...
In addition, if the Big Boss is charged, he can deal D3 S5 PA4 hits, if he didn't use it before. That can be useful if your opponent has power weapons up in the front line
skyfi wrote: I run lots of 5 man loota squads in smaller games, or sometimes 7/7/6 in a 2k list and have success w/o bringing an ADL... I just always without a doubt deploy them in cover (or hold them in reserve if i can easily move thru cover onto board/going 2nd/vs heavy flyer lists... walking on board and snapfiring with lootas isn't so bad when you are already going to be shooting flyers right?)...I also almost invariably go-to-ground in area terrain for +2, typically giving the lootas a 3+ or the ever so coveted 2+ once in a while.... I don't think the point investment in the ADL is necessary for small loota squads to work, you just have to pretty much always go to ground it seems.. Pray for no flamers, and I keep a mob of shoota boys between my 3 loota squads protecting home base/scoring/protecting weedy lil gretchin when they walk on
I would love to bring the ADL but the 50 points... and more points for quad gun etc... Dissuades me.. I do need to test it out more though. At this point I'd rather bring 3 squads 7/7/6 strong respectively than 7/7 (or even shave 15 off else where and do 3 x5) + ADL & quad gun
Well I didn't think about putting Lootas on reserve, but that's a good point given the 48" range of Deff Gunz. I also see the benefit of having smaller units, it's easier to shoot at tanks on the flank that way.
You're right about ADL too, it is costy. However you can effectively shoot at enemy units coming from reserve -- such as flyers, Eldar Swooping Hawks, etc.
That needs several games to decide.
I have been outfitting my boss with (when points allow, which is never ha) a rokkit and ammo runt, that way when he outflanks with kopters he can throw another TL rokkit out. I like skorcha idea.
Smaller units also helps with target prioirty... who wants to shoot a pie plate @ 5 lootas when there are tons of more pressing targets? They might shoot that pie plate or whatever if there were 10-15 lootas though..
Same thing for assault... what if they deep strike vanguard vets next to lootas and charge... i'd rather let 5 lootas get whiped and them consolidate on their turn so my other 10-14 lootas+shoota boys can dem up proppa
Yeah it forces me to take LD checks frequently, and I run risk of fleeing but it seems to work for me!
skyfi, any unit that shoots at a transport can assault it, if they are able to assault that turn.
BRB p80 after the Explodes! effect of damage on passengers entry
Bonzofever wrote:
Also, how come your Lootas can last more than one turn being only a 5-man unit each?
This is what strikes me more about your list. Is the ADL *that* effective for cover saves?
They last or they don't but it's better to lose 5 than to lose 15 and adds target saturation. Also units of 5 have more target flexibility. Since this does not impact the FOC at this point level. If the point level is higher I'll sometimes go with a group of 10 and 2 groups of 5, or even 2 groups of 10 and a group of 5.
What you are looking for these days is the option to go to ground. 3+ cover is awesome. Snapshot afterwards? Priceless.
varag wrote: skyfi, any unit that shoots at a transport can assault it, if they are able to assault that turn.
BRB p80 after the Explodes! effect of damage on passengers entry
did this change from 5th? or did we just learn it wrong originally? haha not sure if we are just being dumb or if we are messing up remembering 5th ha.
matphat wrote: They last or they don't but it's better to lose 5 than to lose 15 and adds target saturation. Also units of 5 have more target flexibility. Since this does not impact the FOC at this point level. If the point level is higher I'll sometimes go with a group of 10 and 2 groups of 5, or even 2 groups of 10 and a group of 5. What you are looking for these days is the option to go to ground. 3+ cover is awesome. Snapshot afterwards? Priceless.
Yes, that does sound sweet! Say, you get that 3+ cover save by going to ground behind the ADL, right? And it works also with ruins. I never had the chance to go to ground, but the BRB states that you can snapfire the next turn and overwatch, too. Interesting also for shootaboyz wishing to hold an objective. I understand that makes 'em lootas good in smaller and more flexible groups, too!
Cover saves is what made me won my games in 6th edition. That's why ADL is worth its points if you use it the right way.
Do you people play Tankbustas mob(s)? Are they better off with Rokkit Launchas or Tankhammers? Small groups or larger ones? On foot or in a trukk/battlewagon? I can't tell if I need 'em when I play Lootas + Dakkajets that can glance to death light tanks or walkers. We have deffrollas and the Big Boss to tear down Land Raiders, right?
matphat wrote: They last or they don't but it's better to lose 5 than to lose 15 and adds target saturation. Also units of 5 have more target flexibility. Since this does not impact the FOC at this point level. If the point level is higher I'll sometimes go with a group of 10 and 2 groups of 5, or even 2 groups of 10 and a group of 5.
What you are looking for these days is the option to go to ground. 3+ cover is awesome. Snapshot afterwards? Priceless.
Yes, that does sound sweet! Say, you get that 3+ cover save by going to ground behind the ADL, right? And it works also with ruins. I never had the chance to go to ground, but the BRB states that you can snapfire the next turn and overwatch, too. Interesting also for shootaboyz wishing to hold an objective. I understand that makes 'em lootas good in smaller and more flexible groups, too!
Cover saves is what made me won my games in 6th edition. That's why ADL is worth its points if you use it the right way.
Do you people play Tankbustas mob(s)? Are they better off with Rokkit Launchas or Tankhammers? Small groups or larger ones? On foot or in a trukk/battlewagon? I can't tell if I need 'em when I play Lootas + Dakkajets that can glance to death light tanks or walkers. We have deffrollas and the Big Boss to tear down Land Raiders, right?
Typically going to ground confers +1 to cover saves.. So 6+ in open, 3+ if on a ruin, or 3+ if in area terrain (as you get +2 for going to ground on area terrain) .. Sometimes though stars align and awesome bounties are to be had when the firing squad shoots through a ruined wall at your lootas in area terrain or based floor level of terrain and get 2+s
You get A 4+ from ADL but get +2 for going to ground behind it (like area terrain) so 2+ from original 4+
Ok this is what I have so far. Looking for tips. Goin Green Tide.
1 warboss full kit heavy armor, cybork, twin link shoota, power claw
6 30 man boyz squads( 3 big shoots, nobs, power claws, boss poles, heavy armor) each mob
2 15 man lootas
? Good or bad? What needs work. I figured flood the field with boyz. 180 of them.
On a side note I'm starting to have nightmares about ork boys. That's a lot of models to clean a paint. My figures are sore from all the mold line trimming. <- is this normal.
Just playEd another game against Necrons last night. This time the opp. had 2 Doom Scythes and 2 Night Scythes, the TL Telsa Destructors were his MVP along with his Overlord in CCB. Chariot rules are so wrong when only one army has access to them!!! I won the same way I've won every game in 6th so far, I just had too many bodies for the opp. to kill.
What didn't work for me was SAG. Never rolled bad but with so much cover, it was near worthless. However I had him with 3 Lobbas and they were worth their weight in gold. Kannons are worthless against fliers and I had no ADL with gun so those fliers had free reign even with 20 Lootas firing at them each turn. The horror!
So I was thinking for my next list for 2000 points 3 Bikerbosses and 1 KFF. Ultimate Hammer and Anvil. Overkill?
@wowsmash
Are you planing on your boyz being shoota or slugga boyz?
Having a ton of boyz is not a bad idea... but remember they are just boyz. that amount of dakka can mow down a ton of stuff but they are going to die in droves as well.
You also should look at splitting up the lootas to 3x 10 man.
as stated in the previous few pages there are many advantages to having more units and thus target saturation. 2x 15 gives you 30, 60, 90, shots from your lootas or 15, 30, 45 if you lose one or one gets tied up in assault. 3x 10 gives you the same 30, 60, 90 shots but you get 20, 40, 60, if you lose one or one gets tied up in assault.
and since you do not include any other choices to your listed FOC that would limit you to 2 I highly suggest 3 units.
I don't know how great I'd feel about a literal green tide, especially given my experiences with foot guard. It feels like you'd have a front wave of two mobz, a second wave deployed off to the side (as in, they'd march forwards and in, so would show up later) of two more mobz, and then you'd have to keep two in reserves.
The problem is that the force concentration would be terrible, and the boyz would be coming in piecemeal. There's still so many models on the board that blast and template weapons are going to be a nightmare, and then you have to deal with all the other stuff like wound allocation problems and new rapid fire, etc.
I obviously don't know for sure, here, but I suspect that the front wave would get to a certain spot and then all be killed, and then it would be mobz getting up to where the previous boyz were killed, and then being killed. Like, you wouldn't really achieve anything other than putting a big pile of ork corpses in the middle of the field.
Oh well, adapt and move on I guess. Ive got a fairly big game going on today, so heres hoping I kill me some Imperial sissies!
Would 6 trukks and 5 burnas in each be codex legal? I can't remember off the top of my head. If so i think that would be a solution to the battlewagons getting blitzed.
.
and fluffy! How do you make that work? Do walkers count as 5 models? (thought that was 10)
