Ah! It was a Web Gauntlet. I was right.

Where's that pic from?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Ah! It was a Web Gauntlet. I was right.

Where's that pic from?

Dunno, grab it from Yak

That Laspistol looks like Rey's Blaster

Heh. It does.

And now that this kit has hand flamers (2 per box), is it safe to assume they won't give us 7 hand flamers per resin upgrade kit?

And if they must, just put some plasma pistols in there. Pretty please!

You want plasma pistols? Hand flamers it is then!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Heh. It does.

And now that this kit has hand flamers (2 per box), is it safe to assume they won't give us 7 hand flamers per resin upgrade kit?

And if they must, just put some plasma pistols in there. Pretty please!

Huh? You can never have enough flamer, they probably get flamer, other hand hand flamer, and heavy flamer , and then flamer and hand flamer in holster bits

I was kinda surprised none of the main house gang have bolt weapon.

Some of the upgrade sets of bolt weapons, the Orlock one especially.

Surprised they don't have needler weapons. Seems ideal for Delaque use.

I do like the general look of the weaponry - I hope the barrels are silencers, and that the shotgun will receive some type of flechette ammo. Surprised they don;t have more wrist-mounted weaponry (like crossbows), but then I suppose thats what digital weapons are...

I'm still not really on board with the whole "every house makes their own version of every gun" thing, but the "faction-specific" items for Delaque like the web gauntlet look cool. For me, the big wants from the FW upgrades are definitely new two-handed rifle holding/aiming/shooting poses, a web gauntlet actually being worn/fired, and ideally at least a couple of poses with the gang's signature gun actually being used.

Most FW bits are just plastic arm poses with new guns digitally copy pasted on, so I wouldn't be too hopeful there.

I know, but most of the other gangs have a much wider variety of arm poses in the basic kit, so I'm hoping(though not predicting) FW will put a smidge more effort in this time.

It's like the artist for that Stub Gun has never even seen a revolver. Much less knows how one actually works. Geez, spend 5 minutes on wikipedia before you start sculpting, for Pete's sake.

Bob Lorgar wrote:
It's like the artist for that Stub Gun has never even seen a revolver. Much less knows how one actually works. Geez, spend 5 minutes on wikipedia before you start sculpting, for Pete's sake.

Er, isn't it a stub automatic with a drum magazine? I didn't think it was supposed to be a stub revolver. The way they've gone with a magazine foreward of the grip does make it look a lot like the autopistol unfortunately.

Yeah, Stubgun covers a variety of weapons. They're not all revolvers.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yeah, Stubgun covers a variety of weapons. They're not all revolvers.

You're absolutely right. My memory failed me. Never mind.

 Yodhrin wrote:
I'm still not really on board with the whole "every house makes their own version of every gun" thing…

Please remember that every Great House is literally a nation of billions unto itself. Considering that modern nations of only a few millions frequently have multiple arms manufacturers, each with their own style, the fact that every House gang has the same aesthetic to their gear is the ascension day miracle, not that each House has different stuff.

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
I'm still not really on board with the whole "every house makes their own version of every gun" thing…

Please remember that every Great House is literally a nation of billions unto itself. Considering that modern nations of only a few millions frequently have multiple arms manufacturers, each with their own style, the fact that every House gang has the same aesthetic to their gear is the ascension day miracle, not that each House has different stuff.

Sure but not after being told for 25 years that everything is STC and looks the same all over the galaxy.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
I'm still not really on board with the whole "every house makes their own version of every gun" thing…

Please remember that every Great House is literally a nation of billions unto itself. Considering that modern nations of only a few millions frequently have multiple arms manufacturers, each with their own style, the fact that every House gang has the same aesthetic to their gear is the ascension day miracle, not that each House has different stuff.

Sure but not after being told for 25 years that everything is STC and looks the same all over the galaxy.

There’s always been things like lasgun variants and stuff in the fluff.

Naow this is good...

Mwhaahahah

Bloodmaster wrote:

Spoiler:

 Scott-S6 wrote:

Bloodmaster wrote:

The use of digital books is an abomination, print is the only valid way to go. Not only is it far batter to handle and to switch back and forth but also does it conserve information much more secure - the amound of decayed data in Epubs is to damn high.

Pfff. Chalk and paper, modern hum-buck, that stuff will never catch on. Stick to clay tablets, that stuff is far superior. Wait a sec, writing?! That is work of the wicked, only way to remember the deeds of our heroes is through oral traditions.

Preaching heresy, eh? Writing may be risky because someone could read it. But... telling?!!! Knowledge is power, guard it well!

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
I'm still not really on board with the whole "every house makes their own version of every gun" thing…

Please remember that every Great House is literally a nation of billions unto itself. Considering that modern nations of only a few millions frequently have multiple arms manufacturers, each with their own style, the fact that every House gang has the same aesthetic to their gear is the ascension day miracle, not that each House has different stuff.

I disagree. As Blackfang says this isn't a modern world with modern nations, it's a hive world in 40K. The majority of basic weaponry should be made to STC patterns, and most of that to whatever specific STC is most widely used locally. Houses would be competing for contracts to produce STC gear using STC designs, not manufacturing their own gear and then trying to flog it like companies and states do today. I can just about buy in to the idea that Van Saar have a complete set of unique gear, there's no issue with Houses manufacturing their own fancy specialist equipment/weapons or with Cawdor's junk'o'gun things, and just because one appropriate style for each weapon is the most common doesn't mean you can't have any variants they could chuck a Mars or Kantrael pattern weapon on a sprue here & there, but the idea the Houses are making six different patterns of autogun, autopistol, of laspistol, or lasgun etc etc that aren't found anywhere else AND also producing the Necromunda pattern(while the pictured weapon isn't explicitly named that AFAIK, it only shows up on classic Necromunda models to my knowledge, and the other commonplace style from that range has already been tagged as Triplex-Phall pattern) is just silly IMO.



Frankly at this point they might as well just chuck out the whole idea of STC, GW don't stick to it any more and evidently plenty of folk would rather have their favourite factions get their own special snowflake style anyway.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
I'm still not really on board with the whole "every house makes their own version of every gun" thing…

Please remember that every Great House is literally a nation of billions unto itself. Considering that modern nations of only a few millions frequently have multiple arms manufacturers, each with their own style, the fact that every House gang has the same aesthetic to their gear is the ascension day miracle, not that each House has different stuff.

Sure but not after being told for 25 years that everything is STC and looks the same all over the galaxy.

There’s always been things like lasgun variants and stuff in the fluff.

Yeah, we have long known that different forge worlds generally produce their own STC variants, and even multiple variants of similar designs. In addition, the actual external appearence of a piece of kit is not entirely determined by the STC design- aesthetic modifications to the exterior are generally ok, such as wooden furniture on a lasgun, rather than metal or something. A lot of "STC" tech also just seems to be pre-Imperial human tech adopted into the fold during the Great Crusade.

Necromunda is a planet with an enormous population- likely one of the most populous planets in the Imperium- and was populous long before it became an Imperial planet. It is also hugely developed and technologically advanced. As each of the Houses represents distinct industrial concerns holding technology that may well be pre-Imperial, I don't think it is at all inconceivable that they each choose to manufacture patterns of weaponry that are visually distinct from those of other Houses- each House has its own area of expertise and aesthetic, and weaponry to suit. Some of those patterns have probably been produced continually since before the Imperial Fists brought the Araneus Continuity into compliance- maybe Araneus soldiers carried Nihilus-pattern lasweapons into battle against the Great Crusade?

Of course a gang in the Underhive would probably end up with a mix of different equipment after awhile, and certain patterns common to the wider Imperium also seem to be present (like autoguns in the Armageddon-pattern style, used by both House Escher and scavenged by House Cawdor. Currently also the standard weapins for Chaos and Genestealer cultists).

But many of the gangs do have a valid reason to make guns to different specifications. A Goliath ganger is physically totally different to an Escher ganger. A weapon a Goliath can easily hold would be hard for an Escher to use without risking harm to themselves or just being really inaccurate. Similarly a Goliath might have to take the trigger guard off just to be able to get their finger to an Escher gun.


Also don't forget most of the gangs have their own factories and foundries which can churn out their own weapons and gear made to their own specifications. So, again, there's every reason that they can adapt the core technology to their own designs.

Remember the Hive City has possibly as many people as the whole world we live on today. The size is VAST and actually quite mind breaking as to how huge we are talking when waste output forms vast waterfalls in the underhive; when whole domes of people can be crushed and destroyed in a quake and it hardly has any effect on the upper reaches.


I can well see competing gangs producing weapons to their own style, suited to their own use. Also don't forget many gangers are going to custom craft, twist, alter and generally muck around with their gear to suit their own unique tastes. So each gang having its own design builds into that visual theme; even though in reality many would be stealing guns off each other and borrowing gear and buying and trading it all the time.


So there's good arguments for both to be valid approaches and in the underhive chances are both are taking place. GW just chose to follow the unique design approach because it makes for more characterful models.

It might be that if/when we see GW make dedicated juve models once more we could see more generic weapons, representing their lower status and thus lesser access to good gear.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
I'm still not really on board with the whole "every house makes their own version of every gun" thing…

Please remember that every Great House is literally a nation of billions unto itself. Considering that modern nations of only a few millions frequently have multiple arms manufacturers, each with their own style, the fact that every House gang has the same aesthetic to their gear is the ascension day miracle, not that each House has different stuff.

I disagree. As Blackfang says this isn't a modern world with modern nations, it's a hive world in 40K. The majority of basic weaponry should be made to STC patterns, and most of that to whatever specific STC is most widely used locally. Houses would be competing for contracts to produce STC gear using STC designs, not manufacturing their own gear and then trying to flog it like companies and states do today. I can just about buy in to the idea that Van Saar have a complete set of unique gear, there's no issue with Houses manufacturing their own fancy specialist equipment/weapons or with Cawdor's junk'o'gun things, and just because one appropriate style for each weapon is the most common doesn't mean you can't have any variants they could chuck a Mars or Kantrael pattern weapon on a sprue here & there, but the idea the Houses are making six different patterns of autogun, autopistol, of laspistol, or lasgun etc etc that aren't found anywhere else AND also producing the Necromunda pattern(while the pictured weapon isn't explicitly named that AFAIK, it only shows up on classic Necromunda models to my knowledge, and the other commonplace style from that range has already been tagged as Triplex-Phall pattern) is just silly IMO.



Frankly at this point they might as well just chuck out the whole idea of STC, GW don't stick to it any more and evidently plenty of folk would rather have their favourite factions get their own special snowflake style anyway.

That style is essentially still used by House Escher- the distinctive forward-angled laspack is on the plastic lasgun. They have changed the barrel layout though.

There are actually surprisingly few weapons used by more than one House- autoguns and pistols, shotguns and combat shotguns, stub pistols, and heavy stubbers being the most notable.

The autoguns are only used by three Houses, and come in two styles, one of which matches the broader autogun style (Armageddon-pattern) used by the GSC and Chaos cultists. Orlock specialise in auto weaponry, so it is not inconceivable they have won a contract for a specific pattern, or simply find the carbines they produce to suit their needs better than the longer Armageddon pattern used by Escher and scavenged by Cawdow.

Stub weapons and shotguns have long been shown to be easy to improvise and create from local designs, and there are numerous STC patterns too. It doesn't seem weird that these guns are very variable.

The House-specific weapons largely represent doctrine and specialisation of the industrial output of the Houses- most of them are available in the trading post. They may represent exclusive contracts to manufacture certain designs from the Adeptus Mechanicus- Necromunda has had ten thousand years as a prime planet in the Segmentum Solar to build such trade complexities.

I don't think much is unexplainable really.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, another point- as Imperial industrial concerns, they will also have contracts for who they supply, many will be centuries or more old. House Orlock, as an example, may supply the Imperial Navy, which is why they focus on short, handy auto weapons and combat shotguns. House Escher may supply the Guard, so they have a focus on lasguns. And so on.

Necromunda pattern weapon are not intended for shipping to the Imperium, the small chunk that actually made for the Imperium (which is still alot to warrant Necromunda as some of the largest manufacturer) probably follow common pattern used by the Imperium. Necromunda is no common hive world.

 Haighus wrote:


There are actually surprisingly few weapons used by more than one House- autoguns and pistols, shotguns and combat shotguns, stub pistols, and heavy stubbers being the most notable.

The autoguns are only used by three Houses, and come in two styles, one of which matches the broader autogun style (Armageddon-pattern) used by the GSC and Chaos cultists. Orlock specialise in auto weaponry, so it is not inconceivable they have won a contract for a specific pattern, or simply find the carbines they produce to suit their needs better than the longer Armageddon pattern used by Escher and scavenged by Cawdow.

Escher, Orlock, Van Saar and Delaque all have distinct designs of auto-weapons. Not sure about Cawdor; they do a lot of scanvenging, but they still have their own manufacturing concerns; not everything is a a knackered old scrapper.

Also, "pattern" doesn't just mean visually obvious differences - see all the different patterns of bolt weapon and plasma weapon represented in the different Imperial Armour books in use by different Space Marine chapters - all visually identical, but different patterns. The different House styles are probably descended from STC plans for lasguns given different starting tech levels and available raw materials.

My take on the different House styles is that the internals - power packs, lasing chamber, focusing optics, etc are all standard - one or a few STC designs - but all the external hardware is different. Somewhere in the House Escher lasgun factory, they churn out lasgun skeletons by the million, then half of them go down the "export" line to get the standard Astra Militarum furniture added, the other half go down the "domestic" line and get the more slim-line House equipment.

Perhaps this is just a model design decision to make the gangs look more "unique", and fluff being adjusted to match that?

Never wanted gang-unique weapons design in old Necromunda, but isn't very bothered by it now. A negative effect is it does limit options for converting and swapping weapons between gangs. It is also way more expensive to buy additional weapons since you typically buy them per gang now, instead of a shared pool that all gangs can use.

Baxx wrote:
Perhaps this is just a model design decision to make the gangs look more "unique", and fluff being adjusted to match that?

That is how their design cycle works. Models first, then rules/fluff.

Does anybody have any pictures of Delaque figures compared to regular guardsmen? I'd love to see the scale difference, if any.

Man, sneaky Delaque gangers sure love GIANT pistols, don't they?

I like the rest, especially the shared rear chassis style, but the pistols are just too much. Seriously, their pistols are as big as the Auto/shot/lasguns, just with no rear stock.

You know what else is crazy? Apparently there are only around TEN unique individuals in each gang. All remaining gang members are evidently cloned, or undergo surgery to look like their precursors, or wear hologrammatic camouflage, or something.

I know it's hard to believe, but just check out the sprues. I'm only seeing about 10 different faces per gang (sometimes fewer!). Huge surprise imo... can't believe such a pervasive story element was never revealed in the original background.

Also makes it REALLY difficult to convert models... where am I supposed to find a sculpt of the exact same face, only performing a slightly different expression? Sometimes I find myself wishing for the good old days.

 Altruizine wrote:
You know what else is crazy? Apparently there are only around TEN unique individuals in each gang. All remaining gang members are evidently cloned, or undergo surgery to look like their precursors, or wear hologrammatic camouflage, or something.

I know it's hard to believe, but just check out the sprues. I'm only seeing about 10 different faces per gang (sometimes fewer!). Huge surprise imo... can't believe such a pervasive story element was never revealed in the original background.

Also makes it REALLY difficult to convert models... where am I supposed to find a sculpt of the exact same face, only performing a slightly different expression? Sometimes I find myself wishing for the good old days.

I should say; have you actually read the background in the Delaque supplement that came with White Dwarf? Because if not…

I wonder if they quietly buffed the cawdor autogun polearm in the new books. I thought the general consensus was that its not worth taking just use a normal autogun instead. I'm broke at the moment so I haven't ordered the new books but as soon as I can I will.

 Thargrim wrote:
I wonder if they quietly buffed the cawdor autogun polearm in the new books. I thought the general consensus was that its not worth taking just use a normal autogun instead. I'm broke at the moment so I haven't ordered the new books but as soon as I can I will.

Basically, the Versatile trait is back to its origins, giving a 2” melee attack-without-engaging range so you can poke them with your stick then shoot them.
Edit: to be clear, this is my understanding based on rumour.

Poke them inna eye! Then stab them inna knee! Then shoot them inna face! VICTORY!

I'm really surprised we've not seen any pics of the Delaque booklet. Here's hoping we get a preview of the FW weapon upgrades for them imminently - I need a load more flechette weapons, and would much rather have alt. pose versions than use a bits seller for four of five more copies of the same one.

Heard some rumours the Delaque rules in WD does not include pet and brute, so hardly a satisfying replacement for a 5th Gang War book.

Ah, just seen a pic of the weapon list on spikeybits. Yup, flechette pistol will efinitely be my main choice. Such a shame they didn't make the shotgun special (i.e. with the muzzle concentrating fire to pack a greater punch in the first 4 inches, making it silent for x number of shots, providing flechette ammunition for it... anything would have done!), the long rifle a Heavy sniper with a high strength and cumbersome restrictions, or even a flechette rifle (instead of the standard autogun). Even just one of those would have been awesome.

Still good, as-is, but... :-/

I don't get why flamers are so expensive in the new rules.

Because the weapons in new necromunda are priced for zone mortalis (I think they assume most will play on there) this is where flamers are very strong, and weapons like plasma canons are not as strong, but once you swap board types the plasma canon becomes great for its cost while flamers become nearly useless. The only good flamers are hand ones (cause all you want is blaze+template the small strength difference doesn't mean much) or the cheap built in flamers on blunderbuss pole arms.

Anyone know if the separate set of tiles is still available? They seem to have disappeared from the GW website.

Looks to be still available here

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Necromunda-Underhive-Badzone-Delta-7-2018

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Looks to be still available here

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Necromunda-Underhive-Badzone-Delta-7-2018

Cheers! Just gone on the Dutch site, then.

Baxx wrote:
Heard some rumours the Delaque rules in WD does not include pet and brute, so hardly a satisfying replacement for a 5th Gang War book.

I don't think that was ever the intent, rather just a means for people to start playing Delaque and not have to fork over another $40 or however much Gang Wars is.
Plus it pushes white dwarf sales, and that's a good business move. Suppose they could have just printed them in the instructions, like they do for bloodbowl, but it wouldn't really be the same.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I don't get why flamers are so expensive in the new rules.

Because the rules for setting people on fire are Crazy powerful and debilitating.

I think it's what was said above though: Because in the confines of Zone Mortalis, flamers can be especially lethal.

Unfortunately such an explanation seems incredibly short sighted, because it means you're paying a premium for a weapon that is no where near as useful in non-Zone Mortalis games.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that a flamer is a bad choice out of Zone Mortalis - Emperor knows that there was nary a Delaque gang I played that didn't include this fella - but there's a reason that mini had a Lasgun on his back, and artificially pricing the flamer (all flamer weapons really) at such a high cost just makes them into choices people will avoid.

Cawdor weapons

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-NL/Cawdor-Weapons-Set1-2018
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-NL/Cawdor-Weapons-Set2

3 hand flamers between the sets.

Son I am disappoint.

Man, those flamers really look like they were cobbled together from plumbing.

I gotta say, people will only buy the Cawdor pack because the weapon look cool, those weapons are pretty meh in game.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Man, those flamers really look like they were cobbled together from plumbing.

Love the fact that the igniters are just greasy candles! Nice touch

I'll save those flamer designs in case of a zombie outbreak, that's for sure.

I'm still bummed that the weapon sets don't really give more poses for the gangers, though. The limited poses make unconverted gangs very same-y at the moment. It wouldn't be hard to make arms for "two 1h weapons" guy to turn him into "swinging 2h-weapon horizontally" guy and they should do that, IMO, because reposing is a lot harder for most people than sourcing cool weapon bits. Given the price of those sets it isn't too much to ask.

PS: Seeing how Delaque and Renegades both get psykers with distended crania at roughly the same time...innocent cross pollinated idea for psykers or a more sinister "coincedence"?

Six of one, half dozen of the other

It's also quite possibly just easier on the CAD time? I dunno.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Chopstick wrote:
I gotta say, people will only buy the Cawdor pack because the weapon look cool, those weapons are pretty meh in game.

House Cawdor. Who needs quality, when you've got quantity

You want the shiny toys, go play Van Saar

Chopstick wrote:
I gotta say, people will only buy the Cawdor pack because the weapon look cool, those weapons are pretty meh in game.

But that's how I play everything! Rule of cool.

Old news I guess, but can confirm the WD booklet doesn't have Delaque pets or brutes, so that's already content you can't access without re-re-re-buying all the other rules.

I want to know if the new rulebook has the Badzone Delta tile rules.

 Binabik15 wrote:
PS: Seeing how Delaque and Renegades both get psykers with distended crania at roughly the same time...innocent cross pollinated idea for psykers or a more sinister "coincedence"?

Oh it's already been done. Someone posted one in one of the FB Necro groups. The Renegade Psyker head works perfectly.

Got the new books.
Lots of small good rules tweaks and clarifications.
Stimms are once per game, chem-synth doesn't require an action (but a passed Int check), bulging biceps allows you to use a unvieldy (two handed) weapon with ine hand but does not make unvieldy a single action, overseer is 6”, etc.

The layout is in places still black text on dark brown-grey background - which sucks for aging eyes in poor/atmospheric gaming light. This combined with *no index* makes it hard to look up rules when playing - even though the rules are organized way better now.

No index (how hard can it be?) means that if questions arise regarding if you become ”Engaged” if your charge is a bit short but you have a Versatile weapon (no, not as a free part of the charge move) or if you can use template pistols in CC (no, only pistols with the Sidearm trait - so FW resin hand flamer spam makes even less sense) or finding any sort of info regarding fighter status: Hidden becomes a lenghty flipping through the books :(

Also bought all the Delaque stuff - and made a few quick conversions:



]

Looking at the photos, the middle one actually looks like an opera singer

Why are they excluding random parts of the rules, like badzone delta tile special terrain features? So you still bring GW2? A total of 3 books plus cult pdfs and bounty hunter WD. And what about the campaign events from GW3, are those also forgotten? A total of 4 books then...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I want to know if the new rulebook has the Badzone Delta tile rules.

 Binabik15 wrote:
PS: Seeing how Delaque and Renegades both get psykers with distended crania at roughly the same time...innocent cross pollinated idea for psykers or a more sinister "coincedence"?

Oh it's already been done. Someone posted one in one of the FB Necro groups. The Renegade Psyker head works perfectly.

No, I mean background-wise. Is there something rotten in the state of Delaque? Are those sinister looking guys maybe up to something...less than unheretical?

Baxx wrote:
Why are they excluding random parts of the rules, like badzone delta tile special terrain features?

I don't see where kendoka said that. Did he edit his post?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Baxx wrote:
Why are they excluding random parts of the rules, like badzone delta tile special terrain features?

I don't see where kendoka said that. Did he edit his post?

I didn’t - Baxx was just dropping a general comment regarding that not all previously published material made it into the new books.
Not really a problem from my point of view. Less is (sometimes) more.

Yeah, however that is highly subjective. The special terrain features can be fun sometimes. If they never released it in the first place, I wouldn't mind not having it. When making a rules compilation, it is impossible for me to decide whether to exclude anything. So everything is included. But for GW, they have no problem excluding content here and there... Surely someone is gonna be disappointed by that?

Those rules filled quite a lot of pages in GW2, this is content that those of us who bought it paid good money for. We know already the books are thrash now, but also the content itself is gone. I get that we paid early access beta game, but now I realize we paid for content that didn't even make it to the finished release (N18 if you like or version 1.0).

Any news if there will be a FAQ with all the new changes for those not wanting to buy the new books, because they already own all the gangwars and the old rulebook?

I really doubt that unfortunately... but if enough people complain they might listen.

Anon052 wrote:
Any news if there will be a FAQ with all the new changes for those not wanting to buy the new books, because they already own all the gangwars and the old rulebook?

That's gonna be painful to use (rules are scattered all over the place, printed and re-printed so many times, rules change every time). You can triple the amount of pain it would be to track everything and make that document. The easy route is of course to scrap everything and start over. Then demand money for it.

 kendoka wrote:

Also bought all the Delaque stuff - and made a few quick conversions:



]

Looking at the photos, the middle one actually looks like an opera singer

Looks good. Nice to see they're easy to give new arms. I'm a fan of the Delaque, but the selection of arms are lackluster IMO.

How do the bodies scale with other modern GW humans, like the GSC or Mechanicus? Do you have any on hand to make a comparasion pic?

Wonder if GW sent out advance copies of the books? Seems like most other stuff gets early reviews.

Im kinda bummed there arent any video unboxings and book flipthroughs on youtube. Usually at least someone out there always has one up on the day of release. There is an odd lack of reviews and such but maybe people are just busy.

Had a flip through them yesterday. No Bad Zone Delta rules.

The books are already leaked (still waiting for my order to arrive).

The books are very solid. According to feedback from yaktribe, there are much improvements (these are not my discoveries, credits belong to several users over at yaktribe):

-Ambot's Tunneling Claw is fixed.
-Orlock brute now has normal Harpoon Launcher
-Khimerix and Phyrr Cat now have the same Talon attack
-Armoury is now almost complete, only missing some unique weapons for dramatis personae.

Some things are tweaked but not yet perfect:
-Fearsome
-Combi needler still has different profile from needle rifle, but at least their names are uniquely different
-Club now has +1 AP modifier for some reason

Still some confusion about the "cut away the clippers" rule.

Scenarios that are excluded:
In The Dark, Monster Hunt, Prison Break, Settlement Attack, and Escape.

I noticed a subtle change to the way equipping gangers with special weapons works; now it’s explicit that you have to buy each new weapon with a new ganger, no back-equipping existing members, unless they are champions/leaders of course.

You mean you cannot keep weapons in stash to give to people?

That... why?

I'm loving the fluff in the new books(mostly). That wee joke about "Mung Vases" turns super dark at the end

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
You mean you cannot keep weapons in stash to give to people?

That... why?

No, I mean you can’t just buy a special weapon for each of your existing gangers after your first game.

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
You mean you cannot keep weapons in stash to give to people?

That... why?

No, I mean you can’t just buy a special weapon for each of your existing gangers after your first game.

Maybe we have been playing it wrong but after your initial gang, you can't buy special weapons for any new gangers after that you get/buy from their list. The only way to get new special weapons is trading post etc or when getting new champions or leaders. You can put weapons you had in your stash if you want and then other gangers can equip it from your stash. We make it if you get a new champ they have to use weapons they bought for at least one game first before they can put it in their stash. But you can't just keep buying gangers and buying them special weapons from their list or have old gangers keep buying special weapons.

We adapt a lot of rules. But is how we play? Do you play it different?

 Mr_Rose wrote:
No, I mean you can’t just buy a special weapon for each of your existing gangers after your first game.

Ah, ok, I just had a quick check of the book.

That seems like a weird distinction to make.

"You didn't get a special weapon when you joined, so you can NEVER have one! MWAHAHAHA!"

They insist on having special weapons for everyone, so this may be their attempt to stop 1st game nude gangs.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:
No, I mean you can’t just buy a special weapon for each of your existing gangers after your first game.

Ah, ok, I just had a quick check of the book.

That seems like a weird distinction to make.

"You didn't get a special weapon when you joined, so you can NEVER have one! MWAHAHAHA!"

I think it’s more of an extension of the no more clippers rule, plus an attempt to enforce that special weapons are supposed to be difficult to come by. So you have a max of four in a starting gang (leader, 2× champions, 1× ganger) and every one after that either has a ganger tax or is another leader or champ card.

I don’t get why they couldn’t just stick in an arbitrary limit or relate it to reputation like champs and hangers-on…

Baxx wrote:
The books are already leaked (still waiting for my order to arrive).

The books are very solid. According to feedback from yaktribe, there are much improvements (these are not my discoveries, credits belong to several users over at yaktribe):

-Ambot's Tunneling Claw is fixed.
-Orlock brute now has normal Harpoon Launcher
-Khimerix and Phyrr Cat now have the same Talon attack
-Armoury is now almost complete, only missing some unique weapons for dramatis personae.

Some things are tweaked but not yet perfect:
-Fearsome
-Combi needler still has different profile from needle rifle, but at least their names are uniquely different
-Club now has +1 AP modifier for some reason

Still some confusion about the "cut away the clippers" rule.

Scenarios that are excluded:
In The Dark, Monster Hunt, Prison Break, Settlement Attack, and Escape.

Also, add to that Rad Phage now causes a fleshwound on a 4+ and isn't an auto fleshwound anymore
Stimm Slugs are use once per game

Baxx wrote:

-Combi needler still has different profile from needle rifle, but at least their names are uniquely different.
...
Still some confusion about the "cut away the clippers" rule.

Scenarios that are excluded:
In The Dark, Monster Hunt, Prison Break, Settlement Attack, and Escape.

It was addressed months ago on one of the Twitch streams - the needler half of the combi-weapon is supposed to be different to the standalone rifle. Same as how the plasma parts of combi-weapons don't have the overcharge mode.

It's a little unclear, but there are references to swapping weapons and wargear into the stash, from which I infer that the "put away the clippers" rule has been forgotten - feel free to sell off unwanted weapons if you want to buy a ganger something better (I need to re-read the rules more closely, it seems). Other than In the Dark, those missing scenarios are the multi-player, semi-cooperative ones. Perhaps they'll be revisited in a future supplement?


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 Yodhrin wrote:
I'm loving the fluff in the new books(mostly). That wee joke about "Mung Vases" turns super dark at the end

Yeah, I saw that. Also, I can't remember if some of the references to House Helmawr's secret, and the son that fled to the Underhive are Kal Jericho references. There's a reference to the old Space Hulk campaign set on Necromunda, and I think the fall of Hive Secundus references the Space Crusade campaign from WD145 that added rules for genestealer hybrids?

Ash Waste nomads, Orlock mining convoys and the spaceship graveyard - get your old Gorkamorka muties and Diggas out, and start converting those new Genestealer Cult bikers!

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

It was addressed months ago on one of the Twitch streams - the needler half of the combi-weapon is supposed to be different to the standalone rifle. Same as how the plasma parts of combi-weapons don't have the overcharge mode.

Ok so at least it is deliberate. Combi is a very curious trait:

-roll twice for Ammo check, apply the worst result.
-if one profile runs Out of Ammo, the other can still fire (unless also Out of Ammo)
-only low power for plasma weapons
-one less Short range accuracy and AP for needler (compared to standalone "needle rifle")

I mean, the first 3 effects are ok. The last one... very curious.

What's the "no clippers" rule?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
What's the "no clippers" rule?

That was the whole "fixed equipment for Mooks, and you can only vary gear on champs etc with extra loadout cards" thing that just about everybody looked and and immediately said "feth that" and did things the old way.

It's fun watching people on Facebook try to justify the fact that clubs now add to your opponent's armour save rather than subtract to it.

"It's because it's a blunt weapon!"

Then why don't other blunt weapons do the same thing? Why are your own fists more effective than a club at getting through armour? Why is the club the -only weapon in the whole game- that does this?

Not once do they consider that this is probably a typo.

Of course GW could stubbornly say "Nah bruv, it was totes intentional!" like way back in the day when T5 Oblits were an "error". Yes I'm still bitter at Pete Haines about that.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Also, I can't remember if some of the references to House Helmawr's secret, and the son that fled to the Underhive are Kal Jericho references. There's a reference to the old Space Hulk campaign set on Necromunda, and I think the fall of Hive Secundus references the Space Crusade campaign from WD145 that added rules for genestealer hybrids?

The Helmawr story is older than Kal Jerico, but yes, there're references to some old snippets and the Hive Secundus background is now indeed based on the Space Crusade Campaign Renegade. The whole fluff is a potpourri of Confrontation (they used entire passages with a minimum of rewriting), old Necromunda and new ideas. I was positively overwhelmed when I read it first (and still in love).

 Dryaktylus wrote:

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Also, I can't remember if some of the references to House Helmawr's secret, and the son that fled to the Underhive are Kal Jericho references. There's a reference to the old Space Hulk campaign set on Necromunda, and I think the fall of Hive Secundus references the Space Crusade campaign from WD145 that added rules for genestealer hybrids?

The Helmawr story is older than Kal Jerico, but yes, there're references to some old snippets and the Hive Secundus background is now indeed based on the Space Crusade Campaign Renegade. The whole fluff is a potpourri of Confrontation (they used entire passages with a minimum of rewriting), old Necromunda and new ideas. I was positively overwhelmed when I read it first (and still in love).

I was quite pleased that they do seem to be taking the time to make the old stuff mesh a bit better with the new stuff, just little things, like specifically calling out how rare the Brat gangs' jetbikes are.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Of course GW could stubbornly say "Nah bruv, it was totes intentional!" like way back in the day when T5 Oblits were an "error". Yes I'm still bitter at Pete Haines about that.

We are truly kindred spirits.

Baxx wrote:

-only low power for plasma weapons
-one less Short range accuracy and AP for needler (compared to standalone "needle rifle")

I mean, the first 3 effects are ok. The last one... very curious.

Why is the reduced effectiveness for plasma OK, but not for a needler? off the top of my head, the combi-version having reduced power (as with the combi-plasma weapon) explains both the reduced range and AP, as the "carrier" laser can't punch through armour as well and "fades out" quicker. The less-ideal ergonomics of a combi-weapon would also explain the reduced accuracy, IMO.

I've not been paying close attention - what's the usual lead time between the plastic gang and the FW upgrade kits?

 Yodhrin wrote:
I've not been paying close attention - what's the usual lead time between the plastic gang and the FW upgrade kits?

Cawdor was, what, August and their upgrades were released this last weekend? Probably 3/4 months - so probably March/April next year?

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

Why is the reduced effectiveness for plasma OK, but not for a needler? off the top of my head, the combi-version having reduced power (as with the combi-plasma weapon) explains both the reduced range and AP, as the "carrier" laser can't punch through armour as well and "fades out" quicker. The less-ideal ergonomics of a combi-weapon would also explain the reduced accuracy, IMO.

Not necessarily OK, but it's not a problem in my mind. And they have been consistent about it. If I can use some gross simplification: Plasma already have 2 weapon profiles. Most weapons have a single weapon profile. A combi weapon usually combines two weapons to give a combined weapon with the two weapon profiles from the same weapon. I thought it was just a little exception to avoid a weapon being overly complex, having a total of 3 weapon profiles (plasma min, max and the weapon combined with plasma). This could lead to potential problems somewhere in the rules, but I agree it probably would be no problem having combi plasma with both min and max power.

Needler / needle rifle on the other hand only has a single weapon profile. Just like bolt gun. Or any other non-plasma weapon part of a combi weapon.

If they for some weird reason made a heavy plasma combi weapon, I'd be certain it couldn't fire max power. But if they made a combi weapon using needle pistol, I don't feel certain they'd keep the -1 short range accuracy and AP. It just feels (to me at least) inconsistent.

The way I look at it, a combi weapon might share profile lines with the individual weapons its made from, but doesn't need to.

In the case of most other combi-weapons, they're made up of a pair of assault weapons, so it's weight of fire that's important over accuracy, so the unwieldiness of a combi-weapon doesn't matter. but a needler is a precision weapon. Once it's included in a combi-weapon, that's compromised; the iron sights are way off the line of the barrel and the ergonomics make it harder to get a good grip and firing stance, hence the amended profile.

(Also, it was described as having been done for game balance)

Ultimately, it doesn't matter what the weapon's called; I use whatever numbers I've written on her fighter card; easy. Maybe I'll start naming their guns...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Of course GW could stubbornly say "Nah bruv, it was totes intentional!" like way back in the day when T5 Oblits were an "error". Yes I'm still bitter at Pete Haines about that.

Jesus Christ sometimes I hate being right all the time..

Necromunda Facebook Group wrote:Over to Necromunda team boss Andy Hoare:

"We use a formula to generate costs for all the weapons in Necromunda, this has been very firmly established for a long time now and all weapon costs adhere strictly to it, even though there’s some small leeway to round up or round down. Upon reviewing everything for Necromunda: Gangs of the Underhive book we felt that it wasn’t working for a few things that had been discounted too much early on (combi weapons primarily), and for clubs which, in spite of a discount were just too expensive– the profile as it was meant the weapon cost just shy of 30 creds and could be discounted to 25, but it seemed weird that a length of pipe should cost more than many a properly crafted weapon!

We wanted to keep the profile intact however as it makes the club its own weapon, so we thought we’d try it with a positive AP, something we can do but, so far, hadn’t done. Putting that through the formula brought the club in at a much more reasonable 10 creds; the price point we felt was right for a length of pipe.
We know that in reality blunt weapons are better against armour, but the game isn’t a simulation of reality, it’s about creating an enjoyable game. This solution fits in game terms."

Hope that helps!

Also, depends on the armour.

Padded chainmail, blunt isn't terribly effective. Plate? Buckle it but good, yet unlikely to inflict a particularly serious wound and that.

Mesh armour, in particular (that Van Saar and Orlock gangers get, among others) is supposed to be material that is ordinarily flexible but stiffens up under impact; just the sort of thing that would be good against a club.

It still doesn't make sense when compared to other weapons or bare hands, though. Mind you, I play Escher, so I don;'t need to worry about it.

That's some fairly solid rationale though. I'm impartial as to the stat line and its effects, but when design choices come down to two irrational conclusions, go with the one that makes the most sense.
As to compensate...
Maybe have a rule that makes bare hands worse?
Of course you could say, if the formula only presents them 2 irrational choices, then it's broken; but that's really not true, especially in game design; gak happens all the time in MTG when they're designing cards.
I wouldn't have been surprised if they had chosen to leave the pipe as is and just dropped the points, and then suddenly everyone and their dog has pipes.
I am surprised to hear they have a formula, and I would very much like to see how that works. I suppose I could attempt to backwards engineer it from weapon profiles....

For those who want more Necromunda fiction, it's in today's advent calendar, an audio drama to boot about the Desert: https://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/advent-2018-11-bounty-hunter-the-deserter-mp3.html

In the underhive of Necromunda, the only law that really matters is that might is right and unless you can defend what's yours, someone else will claim it. That's what happened to Corenne. When the Thunder Knuckle Posse came, they took control of the Sweet Drop Still, sending her family packing. Now, she wants it back, and a chance encounter with a ragged old man known only as "The Deserter" who claims to have fought in the armies of the vaunted Lord Solar might just be her salvation – or at least revenge.

An audio drama written by Justin D Hill.

Running time 27 minutes. Performed by Steve Conlin, Toby Longworth, Carla Medonca & Jo Woodcock.

Link has a sample.

And the deserter is still not released...

 zedmeister wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
I've not been paying close attention - what's the usual lead time between the plastic gang and the FW upgrade kits?

Cawdor was, what, August and their upgrades were released this last weekend? Probably 3/4 months - so probably March/April next year?

Eeeesh They really need to get that down to more like three or four weeks rather than months. The gap makes no sense either, the contents of the upgrade packs are surely being sculpted at the same time as the plastics, and with the resin production process it would even be possible to time things so they came out on the same day.

Maybe?

But while you can resize computer designed stuff once the resin is made you're stuck, so they won't want to start building up a stock of arms until they have final plastics to make sure stuff fits

(they're probably 95% certain it will based on the 3d Prints but no points doing a whole bunch of production which is labour intensive and produces a non recyclable end product until they're certain)

and since it looks like FW just like GW is running at capacity finding the time to produce a bunch of stock for the launch where 80% (? i'm guessing but bet it's pretty high) of the lifetime sales of the product will be made is going to take plenty of time

It also means a gang doesn't drop and get forgotten about (although I admit spare arms aren't very exciting), there's at least something tangible to look forward to for those investing in them

There seems to be some confusion about how you buy new equipment for fighters. Looking at the Pre-Battle & Post-battle Sequence section (p90 of the Rulebook ebook on my iPad), under the Visit the Trading Post section, there's:

Visit the Trading Post:
Hire a fighter. Hire a new fighter from your gang's House List. (you buy them "naked" at this stage)

Recruit Hangers-on

Sell equipment from the Stash

Purchase Equipment. Here you can buy whatever you like from your House Equipment list and Common items from the Trading Post


Seek Rare Equipment. Here you make your Availability roll if any Champions undertook a Trade post-battle action. Buy anything with Rarity less than or equal to your roll (make a single roll, buy as much as you can afford) and add it to the stash.

Gain Boons from Territories

Distribute Equipment
Here, you can remove an item from the Stash and add it to a Fighter's Fighter Card. This section also says "Players are reminded that no fighter can discard a weapon once added to their Fighter cards as described in the Gangs of the Underhive book."

However, all the Gangs of the uNderhive book says is the Stashed Weapons and Wargear box on page 116, which says "Should any fighter purchase new weapons or Wargear, old weapons or Wargear may be added to the Stash."


My take on all of that is that (by the letter of the rules), fighters can return Wargear (grenades, armour, personal equipment) to the stash but must retain any weapons they're given. I'd also say you could remove weapon accessories and Status items other than master-crafted weapons. YMMV, and personally I intend to allow players to remove weapons from fighters if they want anyway.

My reading of the Ganger equipment restrictions is that it doesn't prevent you buying an existing Ganger a special weapon later, it's just explaining that the limit of a single ganger with special weapon only applies to gang creation before the first game.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Maybe?

But while you can resize computer designed stuff once the resin is made you're stuck, so they won't want to start building up a stock of arms until they have final plastics to make sure stuff fits

(they're probably 95% certain it will based on the 3d Prints but no points doing a whole bunch of production which is labour intensive and produces a non recyclable end product until they're certain)

and since it looks like FW just like GW is running at capacity finding the time to produce a bunch of stock for the launch where 80% (? i'm guessing but bet it's pretty high) of the lifetime sales of the product will be made is going to take plenty of time

It also means a gang doesn't drop and get forgotten about (although I admit spare arms aren't very exciting), there's at least something tangible to look forward to for those investing in them

But the point is that while the resin process is labour intensive, it's not slow. Even after they have the final version of the plastics sorted, they still have to mill all the production molds and run up sufficient stock to handle the launch and post-launch periods, and there's no reason final tweaks, 3D printing, and molding the resin extras should take longer than that process.

No I think your latter point is far more likely the reason - it's about the dripfeed of releases intended to keep people on the hook, but doing it this way doesn't make me "look forward" to the future release, it makes me frustrated that I'm sitting here ready to get to work on my Delaque gang, but don't have access to everything I want to do that and won't for months.


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 AndrewGPaul wrote:

My take on all of that is that (by the letter of the rules), fighters can return Wargear (grenades, armour, personal equipment) to the stash but must retain any weapons they're given. I'd also say you could remove weapon accessories and Status items other than master-crafted weapons. YMMV, and personally I intend to allow players to remove weapons from fighters if they want anyway.

Disagree, the letter of the rules are in direct conflict, but since the Rulebook specifically refers to what's stated in Gangs of the Underhive, I'd say that is the version that should win the conflict, and on that basis returning both Wargear and weapons to the stash is permitted.

However even if GW FAQ it otherwise, I'll be ignoring them, because it's a daft idea.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Also, depends on the armour.

Padded chainmail, blunt isn't terribly effective. Plate? Buckle it but good, yet unlikely to inflict a particularly serious wound and that.

I'm not sure where this has come from- blunt is still terribly effective at transmitting force through mail. The padding underneath helps far more, but even that is vulnerable, and you wear plenty of padding under plate. Plate is actually better at resisting impacts than mail- the rigidity transmits the impact over more body, and it takes a huge impact to dent good plate. The solid curves are more likely to deflect blows too, whereas a spiked or flanged mace is more likely to gain purchase on mail.

The biggest problem with blunt weapons is that most of a human is fundamentally pretty resistant to blunt impacts, and armour makes them really resistant. The reason blunt-impact weapons are used against armour is simply that they are still able to damage through armour, whilst sharp weapons become almost useless unless they hit unarmoured areas. But a mace blow to armour needs to hit a joint or the head to have a good chance of causing injury- anywhere else and your opponent is probably still fighting effectively.

Of course, this is no reason why a club should be worse than fists- it is still a force multiplier!

Yeah, this is what you actually used to penetrate plate (the spiked end). Even better If you hit a weak joint. The hammer head sometimes had a coat of arms on it, so you could swivel it round and mark your kill for the tallyman.

There was also a pike with a giant can opener attachment on it, called a halberd, and another called a poleaxe . Also the basic Spear was a good way to poke the soft bits in joints, the face, the side of the armor and nut shots, behind the knees, and ankles.

The best gang for this is the Cawdors. Their gang has some shooty weapons on the end of their pole arms, pikes, and halberds, so this is an added bonus.

faqs

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/12/14/necromunda-new-rulebooks-and-faqfw-homepage-post-1/

 Haighus wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Also, depends on the armour.

Padded chainmail, blunt isn't terribly effective. Plate? Buckle it but good, yet unlikely to inflict a particularly serious wound and that.

I'm not sure where this has come from- blunt is still terribly effective at transmitting force through mail. The padding underneath helps far more, but even that is vulnerable, and you wear plenty of padding under plate. Plate is actually better at resisting impacts than mail- the rigidity transmits the impact over more body, and it takes a huge impact to dent good plate. The solid curves are more likely to deflect blows too, whereas a spiked or flanged mace is more likely to gain purchase on mail.

The biggest problem with blunt weapons is that most of a human is fundamentally pretty resistant to blunt impacts, and armour makes them really resistant. The reason blunt-impact weapons are used against armour is simply that they are still able to damage through armour, whilst sharp weapons become almost useless unless they hit unarmoured areas. But a mace blow to armour needs to hit a joint or the head to have a good chance of causing injury- anywhere else and your opponent is probably still fighting effectively.

Of course, this is no reason why a club should be worse than fists- it is still a force multiplier!

Warhammers were more for disabling the opponent, so you could capture them alive and then ransom them back. It's why they often had pointy heads, to proper mangle the armour. That it didn't leave lasting injury was all the better, as less chance of your bounty dying on you.

But what if you already have the rulebook from the Necromunda: Underhive boxed game, and the various Gang War expansions?

No worries – all your rules are still valid! You can bring your gang lists up-to-date with the free House Delaque rules packaged with December’s White Dwarf, while the brand-new FAQ provides errata for the Necromunda: Underhive Rulebook along with some updates to bring it in line with the new rules.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/12/14/necromunda-new-rulebooks-and-faqfw-homepage-post-1/

Is a pdf patch aimed at the old books useful to anyone? First of all, it seems to apply a random selection of changes to keep the old messy rules semi-valid. But still very inaccurate, there should be tons of rules changes not covered by this pdf. Even if someone insists on using the old books with this pdf patch, it's still gonna be the same old mess, just add another pdf on top. And the Delaque rules are as earlier mentioned a) not free and b) not exhaustive, you'll still be missing out on new rules even if you add it on top of the previous 5 books, GLAP and multiple pdfs

It depends, I suppose; if someone in your group has the new rules and others the old, then it'll be awkward. However, if you all have the current rules, then you can just use this document without having to buy the new rules.

If I'm reading it right...

Old Rules: Bulging Biceps + Fast Shot = Double Dakka w/Heavy Stubber.

New Rules: Bulging Biceps + Fast Shot = Regular Dakka w/Heavy Stubber.

Friend of mine ain't gonna like that...

[EDIT]: Actually... what's the point of Bulging Biceps now? You can carry an Unwieldy weapon in one hand... and... that's it. It still counts as two weapons for the purposes of weapon carrying limitations. It still takes a double action to fire (as you're no longer ignoring the Unwieldy weapon trait). What benefit is there to this Skill?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
If I'm reading it right...

Old Rules: Bulging Biceps + Fast Shot = Double Dakka w/Heavy Stubber.

New Rules: Bulging Biceps + Fast Shot = Regular Dakka w/Heavy Stubber.

Friend of mine ain't gonna like that...

[EDIT]: Actually... what's the point of Bulging Biceps now? You can carry an Unwieldy weapon in one hand... and... that's it. It still counts as two weapons for the purposes of weapon carrying limitations. It still takes a double action to fire (as you're no longer ignoring the Unwieldy weapon trait). What benefit is there to this Skill?

Nothing change for Bulging Bicep since the last faq months ago. It's main use is to be able to claim the bonus attack with unwieldy CC weapon. (it's useless)

Bulging Biceps went from being 1 great shooting skill in a crappy melee skill set to being a mediocre melee skill in a crappy melee skill set.

Bottom line, you don't have to risk rolls on a dumb useless melee table to get that one amazing thing for your main shooty guy anymore.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
It depends, I suppose; if someone in your group has the new rules and others the old, then it'll be awkward. However, if you all have the current rules, then you can just use this document without having to buy the new rules.

Yeah I guess so, but the rules will be N17 with random updates from N18, not a clean N18 rules set as per the new compendium books. If you are a casual player, maybe that's ok. But any player willing to spend money to buy all the Gang War books sounds more dedicated than casual, so I would expect them to play N18 with all the rules updated.

And whenever you'll discuss the rules online, there will only be confusion, as the N17-N18 mix will not match what most (hopefully) are discussing.

It'll only be more confusing if you keep referring to them as N17 and N18.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It'll only be more confusing if you keep referring to them as N17 and N18.

maybe Necromunda 2nd ed?

It's certainly different rules, changes are made all over the place. Not sure what you would prefer to call it, edition, version or something else. At yaktribe they be decided to distinguish this difference by N18 (most updated compendium rules) and N17 (old messy rules).


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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It'll only be more confusing if you keep referring to them as N17 and N18.

That's how they decided to label the different rules at yaktribe. You have a better way of distinguishing different rules?

GW UK has confirmed (via E-mail via a Facebook group) that the Bad-Zone Delta tiles will be getting a rules PDF on the website by Friday-ish.

Baxx wrote:

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
It depends, I suppose; if someone in your group has the new rules and others the old, then it'll be awkward. However, if you all have the current rules, then you can just use this document without having to buy the new rules.

Yeah I guess so, but the rules will be N17 with random updates from N18, not a clean N18 rules set as per the new compendium books. If you are a casual player, maybe that's ok. But any player willing to spend money to buy all the Gang War books sounds more dedicated than casual, so I would expect them to play N18 with all the rules updated.

And whenever you'll discuss the rules online, there will only be confusion, as the N17-N18 mix will not match what most (hopefully) are discussing.

I’m dedicated enough to buy all the books, but casual enough that none of the “issues” bothered me; same with the rest of my group. for our next club campaign we’ll be using the new books, but I expect some players will just use the old books and learn the changes as we go.

The cawdor dice sold out on the US site and the van saar dice are gone without a trace. If anyone has any interest in collecting the other dice better do it cause they might never come back, same happened to the chaos BB dice and dominion cards. I still wanted another set of cawdor dice but it looks like ill be going on ebay or elsewhere.

After having studied the new rulebook in detail, I must say it is great and messy at the same time. There are minor tweaks here and there, almost impossible to notice. At the same time, there's countless sloppy mistakes and copy-paste errors (for example forgetting to remove references to retracted Turf War campaign elements). The book also includes some great fixes (probably already mentioned here or otherwise).

Were the Bad Zone tile rules left out of the new books? And has Turf War been removed as a campaign option? It's just the dominion campaign now? I wish I had grabbed those territory cards when they came out....really bummed they didnt keep those in print.

Also, dice. Themed dice are a nice novelty, but I actually prefer the high contrast of the black and yellow dice that came with the main starter. I almost want to grab another box just to get another set.

The Bad Zone rules are not in the new books no. Rumours say they will be available as a free pdf in the future. Turf War campaign is gone. Only Dominion campaign in the current rules.

If you have trouble getting the cards, you could probably make them yourself.

I want more of the black and yellow dice too!

GW confirmed that they'd be up on the Bad Zone store page. They'll be adding a 'download' bits.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
GW confirmed that they'd be up on the Bad Zone store page. They'll be adding a 'download' bits.

I mean, that's great they will be putting the PDF up for free, but leaving them out of the book was a bad move...our one-stop solution just turned into 'I need the books and a printed PDF (or tablet/phone, or Gang War 2) to have all of the rules'...

I'd bet 10 bucks it's just a page count thing. Put in the badzone stuff, book has to be 16 pages or whatever longer and cost that much more. I've heard similar things before. Look at General's Handbook for AoS, they even used the inside back cover for rules just to avoid upping the page count.

Even a single page adds up in printing costs when you're making a gajillion copies.

Yeah but you can't just add a page or 2. As was said, you have to add them in batches (multiples of 8, because publishing!).

That said, this would be a problem if those rules took up 9 pages, or 20 pages, or something like that. I'm sure they could have found a way.

If they wanted, they could fit everything (and that's 100% everything) into a single book. There's always a lot of empty space and filler text. Scenarios for example, almost always on 2 pages instead of 1.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/12/31/31st-dec-coming-soon-new-necromunda-upgradesfw-homepage-post-2/


Alternative heads!!

What a surprise!

oh...well...they're a bit nice...

These are cool!

Nice! Pleasant surprise.

The Van Saar and Orlock ones are so so, the Escher ones are nice, and I really like the Goliath and Cawdor ones.

Wise move GW. They look great overall.

Goliath look best, Van Saar lack female heads ( or at least more feminine one).And Escher lack heads with mask.

Oh those heads will be SUPER useful for all sorts of stuff...

Really liking those heads! They'll be great at giving even more diversity and they've got some neat personality to the choices of design!

Look forward to getting a set and putting them into use!

Shame we've not seen the revised design on the Escher beasty, though the heads will be a good stand in whilst waiting.

The hooded heads lend Cawdor more towards redemptionists. Are there any rumours as to whether they’ll get a release?

Glad they fixed the one female Van Saar head with these resin ones...

The Goliath heads in particular look ace, as do the Escher heads with the goggles, but alas, for me this is all about a year too late.

 Chairman Aeon wrote:
Glad they fixed the one female Van Saar head with these resin ones...

There are at least two in the resin pack that could be female.

If the Van Saar are struggling with radiation poisoning from their STC it could well be that fertility issues mean they really can't spare their females to run around being gang members unless they're certain they're sterile

hence the have female gangers but not too many of them

These are nice and all, but i am curious where the upper hive bounter hunter and the mechanical ambull are considering they're pictures of them in the new rule and gangs books.

These are all great but they need to get cracking on the brutes and unique gang specific stuff like the spyker, stig shambler, etc.

There are three female heads in the Van Saar collection. Pay attention.

This a great idea by GW/FW; in a game where you want to develop individual characters over the course of a campaign, you really don't want to have any duplicates.

Also, a return to their roots for FW; i.e. using low volume resin production to produce cool, characterful, upgrades for the plastic kits. Stuff that you don't need, but makes your collection just that bit special. Fingers crossed this is a sign of things to come.

These heads are great... however I'm not sure if releasing these sorts of bits as long after the kits will drive sales of those kits as I'm sure they hope they will. I think these will end up getting more use to do conversions for IG and the like, more than for their immediate intended purpose.

The bottom left Cawdor head looks like he's trying to look like Doomguy (upper right)

These heads are great... however I'm not sure if releasing these sorts of bits as long after the kits will drive sales of those kits as I'm sure they hope they will. I think these will end up getting more use to do conversions for IG and the like, more than for their immediate intended purpose.

For GW as long as your buying them they'll be happy with it.

 aka_mythos wrote:
These heads are great... however I'm not sure if releasing these sorts of bits as long after the kits will drive sales of those kits as I'm sure they hope they will. I think these will end up getting more use to do conversions for IG and the like, more than for their immediate intended purpose.

Yeah, I'd love to have used these, but I already have 20+ Van Saar/Goliath/Orlocks and 10 Cawdor/Delaque built (with my own converted heads on many models.

I would have definitely picked up the FW heads if they'd been revealed prior to me building all that. As it stands, I can't really use these unless I expand some gangs (which I might!). My Escher aren't built yet, so I could use them there, too.

 Altruizine wrote:

 aka_mythos wrote:
These heads are great... however I'm not sure if releasing these sorts of bits as long after the kits will drive sales of those kits as I'm sure they hope they will. I think these will end up getting more use to do conversions for IG and the like, more than for their immediate intended purpose.

Yeah, I'd love to have used these, but I already have 20+ Van Saar/Goliath/Orlocks and 10 Cawdor/Delaque built (with my own converted heads on many models.

I would have definitely picked up the FW heads if they'd been revealed prior to me building all that. As it stands, I can't really use these unless I expand some gangs (which I might!). My Escher aren't built yet, so I could use them there, too.

I just want them to keep up with the cool stuff, now just need Delaque heads, weapons, etc..

 aka_mythos wrote:
These heads are great... however I'm not sure if releasing these sorts of bits as long after the kits will drive sales of those kits as I'm sure they hope they will. I think these will end up getting more use to do conversions for IG and the like, more than for their immediate intended purpose.

Some people are just lucky I guess. I still have 20 Escher/30 Goliath/30 Orlock/30 Van Saar/10 Cawdor to build.

 Altruizine wrote:
There are three female heads in the Van Saar collection. Pay attention.

Where?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Where?

I think it is the first and third on first row, from the left. The only reason I know they're supposed to be female heads because GW attach them to the female body in their demonstration picture. lol.

These are cool, I have to admit. Especially that Escher leader head and the Goliaths.

The joke comment being, will a new edition/compendium for Necromunda be released in April to replace the one that just came out in November?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Altruizine wrote:
There are three female heads in the Van Saar collection. Pay attention.

Where?

So if you number them like this:

1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8
9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16

I would posit that 1, 3, and 15 are clearly intended to be women.

1 and 3 are very similar in shape and detail to the single female head provided in the plastic kit (rounded skulls and subtle brows, compared to the rectangular brow-fests of the male ganger heads). 15 has a hairstyle that lines up with one of the female Van Saar gangers illustrated in the rulebook (a hairstyle not shared with any of the male gangers in the art, as far as I remember).

You could absolutely use any of the heads I mentioned to represent a male ganger, and it would look fine. But by the same token there are at least two other heads in that set that I identify as "male" which would work fine for a female character. I'm obviously taking an unproveable position here, but I think anyone complaining about a lack of female heads is expecting a style for Van Saar women that does not logically follow from the appearance established by the plastic kit.

15 with the Ivan Drago hair is clearly a female?

Guess they were aiming for the "mother russia" look, Unfortunately the female Van Saar have frail and tiny body.

 Altruizine wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Altruizine wrote:
There are three female heads in the Van Saar collection. Pay attention.

Where?

So if you number them like this:

1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8
9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16

I would posit that 1, 3, and 15 are clearly intended to be women.

1 and 3 are very similar in shape and detail to the single female head provided in the plastic kit (rounded skulls and subtle brows, compared to the rectangular brow-fests of the male ganger heads). 15 has a hairstyle that lines up with one of the female Van Saar gangers illustrated in the rulebook (a hairstyle not shared with any of the male gangers in the art, as far as I remember).

You could absolutely use any of the heads I mentioned to represent a male ganger, and it would look fine. But by the same token there are at least two other heads in that set that I identify as "male" which would work fine for a female character. I'm obviously taking an unproveable position here, but I think anyone complaining about a lack of female heads is expecting a style for Van Saar women that does not logically follow from the appearance established by the plastic kit.

There's only 12 heads in the van saar set.

Love the Goliath heads!


Guys you remember that Cawdor character that looked a little too pointy hat and then got removed everywhere.
Do you think he’ll come back?
(They could add bits like heads 1 & 3 have. Or just use one like 7 or 16 instead..)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Obviously it’ll take some extra sculpting, not just a popping one on.
But better than scrapping him entirely surely?

I hope he comes back exactly as he was. It was a great model.

He'd probably stay in 2018 forever.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I hope he comes back exactly as he was. It was a great model.

So do I.
I think it’s ridiculous that this is happening to be honest, people making the comparisons just to troll.
But obviously it worried them enough.

Anyone have the pic of him still to post, I don’t have it anymore..

Danny76 wrote:


Anyone have the pic of him still to post, I don’t have it anymore..

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/necromunda/comments/98cwmx/new_cawdor_executioner_from_warhammer_fest_europe/

Cheers.

Sad, the more I look at it, the more I think why even..


But they never officially said anything about it did they, just removed the article..

I'd forgotten all the studs on his hood, it makes the perceived reason for it's disappearance even more odd as that's something the Klan just don't have so only a rea idiot is going to mix up the two

Heads are in preorder!!

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-NL/Cawdor-Heads-Upgrade-Set-2019

Odd that it’s two Goliath sets rather than one every one else gets.

Goliath heads have too much meat to fit in a single set.

Hmm... there are 26 heads, I have 30 Goliaths to build. But then I wouldn't be using all the heads in the plastic kit.

Oh the horror of having too much to choose from.

For Golios, there's one set of masked heads, and one set without masks.

Plastic ambots!

PLASTIC?

Definitely plastic?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
PLASTIC?

Definitely plastic?

Warhammer Community wrote:That’s not all our Ambull-related news, either – the Ambot, a mechanical brute from the underhive, is coming to Necromunda in a new plastic kit that builds a pair of cybernetic monstrosities:

Not just plastic--TWO in plastic!

They are indeed!

Oh what wonders today has brought!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
PLASTIC?

Definitely plastic?

Aye

That’s not all our Ambull-related news, either – the Ambot, a mechanical brute from the underhive, is coming to Necromunda in a new plastic kit that builds a pair of cybernetic monstrosities

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/01/05/breaking-news-new-models-new-expansions-and-exclusive-revealsgw-homepage-post-1/

So were the Centurion rules Ok after the CA? Because I think I found by counts-as Centurions...

They're plastic? Oh man that's awesome.

 zedmeister wrote:
Plastic ambots!

Just wow they are gorgeous and the new Ambull model is also great

I mean, cool, but are most people going to need two?

I'll use two. One will be painted in my specific Escher scheme, the other will be in catch all colours for any gang to use.

 Yodhrin wrote:
I mean, cool, but are most people going to need two?

For just Necromunda, possibly not, but I expect these will show up in Blackstone Fortress expansions and if there are any AdMech types out there who hate their daft looking toy robots, these would be a cool alternative. Plus conversion fodder (Killa Kans anyone?), I think GW are well aware that certain kits are used fairly extensively for conversions.

Could also pass for Meganobz?

I mean sure, they could have loads of uses. They're mining bots or something right, they could be a unit for GSC.

My point is that if you're doing a Necromunda gang and you want an Ambot to go with it, having to buy a box of two, especially given the likely price and if you only want the one, is a bit of a bummer.

What do they expect us to do, socialise with another human being in order to arrange to go halfers?

They wouldn't be any cheaper as a single sprue "character" kit.
Pack 2 mean they might be a proper multi-part kit,.

The 2nd ambot can be used as monster for scenario, or as an alternative model for the other one with different pose.

Well, 2 in the box help explain the probable $35 dollar price tag? I'm thinking a pile of them would be good for custom missions. Sneak into mine operation Zeta-smeg 3 and steal an ambot from the mine works

 Insurgency Walker wrote:
Well, 2 in the box help explain the probable $35 dollar price tag? I'm thinking a pile of them would be good for custom missions. Sneak into mine operation Zeta-smeg 3 and steal an ambot from the mine works

Yeah, there could be a dozen ‘bots working the mine and you have the option of the stealthy sneaky route where you go in quiet, hack the recognition protocols of one, and sneak back out with it, or go in heavy, disable one and drag it back out, but that will wake the defence protocols on all the others and there’s a chance you won’t be able to fix the one you appropriated if you hit it too hard…

Hell yeah, I need two - one for my Eshers and one for my Orks to loot!

This is an awesome release, and they look great.

Chopstick wrote:
They wouldn't be any cheaper as a single sprue "character" kit.
Pack 2 mean they might be a proper multi-part kit,.

The 2nd ambot can be used as monster for scenario, or as an alternative model for the other one with different pose.

I'm not seeing why they wouldn't be cheaper if you were only buying one of them. They look to be on 40's, so a single one wouldn't really justify being more expensive than the Troll positional for Blood Bowl at 15 quid. You really think they're going to sell two for 15 quid?

I was wondering why these were taking so long to produce. But it makes a lot of sense as they are in plastic. Makes they a lot more interesting and desirable especially as the black stone fortress Ambull is in plastic.

 Yodhrin wrote:


I'm not seeing why they wouldn't be cheaper if you were only buying one of them. They look to be on 40's, so a single one wouldn't really justify being more expensive than the Troll positional for Blood Bowl at 15 quid. You really think they're going to sell two for 15 quid?

I'll take 40 burger buck for actual multi-part kit than tiny "character" sprue for 25-35. Unless they are 2 character sprue for 25US$ like the troll, which is an odd price for the usual 35-40 US$ 2 sprues character based on GW pricing.

5-15 dollar for another model and a chance that kit have some effort put into it, not just plastic cramped in tiny sprue? Yes.

As nice as they are, kinda worried that we'll be stuck with just those two poses and zero interchangeable parts / options to make them look different from the examples shown.

I'm thinking $35 USD for two models is an unhealthy level of optimistic.

I'm expecting knight armiger prices, hoping to be pleasantly surprised

sockwithaticket wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
I mean, cool, but are most people going to need two?

For just Necromunda, possibly not, but I expect these will show up in Blackstone Fortress expansions and if there are any AdMech types out there who hate their daft looking toy robots, these would be a cool alternative. Plus conversion fodder (Killa Kans anyone?), I think GW are well aware that certain kits are used fairly extensively for conversions.

I'm really diggin the ambots. the poses look really cool but most likely will be the only easy ones to make. From the wording on the warcom article it might be 1 per box but can make 2 diff versions.

I can definitely see using these for castellan/ax kitbashing and for Blackstone to change it up from the flesh one released along with it. maybe with some greenstuff you could make a ambullbot monstrosity.

I'm liking this lass for Necromunda Genestealers...

She's awfully classy for the Underhive, but presumably Genestealer Cultists don't mind getting their (2-4) hands dirty.

The eyes man! Just don't look into its eyes!

 Flashman wrote:
I'm liking this lass for Necromunda Genestealers...

Spoiler:

Or do a head swap and an arm swap she could be a good Escher stand in.

 Flashman wrote:
I'm liking this lass for Necromunda Genestealers...

Spoiler:

That’s no lass, that’s a woman! [/drax]

 BrookM wrote:
As nice as they are, kinda worried that we'll be stuck with just those two poses and zero interchangeable parts / options to make them look different from the examples shown.

If it is in the same format as the previous Necromunda releases, it'll be two of the same sprue.

Specialist Games have really weird priorities when the Ambot is a plastic kit while each gang has one sprue barely larger than a clampack character.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Specialist Games have really weird priorities when the Ambot is a plastic kit while each gang has one sprue barely larger than a clampack character.

Well the priorities will be different now the game has done well. When the gangs were being done, it was a riskier prospect.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Specialist Games have really weird priorities when the Ambot is a plastic kit while each gang has one sprue barely larger than a clampack character.

Well the priorities will be different now the game has done well. When the gangs were being done, it was a riskier prospect.

There might also be assets that exist, digitally now, for the plastics that didn't before that cross over with something in the main line-ups...*fingers crossed*

Ambots May also get multipurposed for KT and Blackstone fortress, so no point in doing resin. They could even do resin upgrades in the future.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Specialist Games have really weird priorities when the Ambot is a plastic kit while each gang has one sprue barely larger than a clampack character.

Since when does "barely larger than" mean "twice the size"?

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Specialist Games have really weird priorities when the Ambot is a plastic kit while each gang has one sprue barely larger than a clampack character.

Since when does "barely larger than" mean "twice the size"?

Don’t you mean “four times the size?”

Bah. Who needs savings for retirement anyway?

 Yodhrin wrote:
I mean, cool, but are most people going to need two?

Is this enough reason?

 Mr Morden wrote:

 zedmeister wrote:
Plastic ambots!

Just wow they are gorgeous and the new Ambull model is also great

Two of the coolest models seen for GW in awhile (that and some of the new GSC models). Totally gunna be buying them. I just imagine using Deathwing rules (or an actual good army) but total army of these guys or something to that extent. They look that good.

Spectral Ceramite wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 zedmeister wrote:
Plastic ambots!

Just wow they are gorgeous and the new Ambull model is also great

Two of the coolest models seen for GW in awhile (that and some of the new GSC models). Totally gunna be buying them. I just imagine using Deathwing rules (or an actual good army) but total army of these guys or something to that extent. They look that good.

I'll be swapping out the castellax in my dark mechanicum army depending on size.
Just needs a shoulder mounted gun and they are good to go.
With all the new releases these are definitely some of the best.

I'm just not sure how they fit into the setting.

They look neat, sure... But xenos styled robots that...something something? Why were they made? Are they actual robots (as opposed to fancy power armor, are they AIs, etc)? Why necromunda of all places?

Very strange one off that doesn't really fit in anywhere.

Voss wrote:
I'm just not sure how they fit into the setting.

They look neat, sure... But xenos styled robots that...something something? Why were they made? Are they actual robots (as opposed to fancy power armor, are they AIs, etc)? Why necromunda of all places?

Very strange one off that doesn't really fit in anywhere.

They make servitors from humans. Why not big servitors from much simpler Xenos brains?

Voss wrote:
I'm just not sure how they fit into the setting.

They look neat, sure... But xenos styled robots that...something something? Why were they made? Are they actual robots (as opposed to fancy power armor, are they AIs, etc)? Why necromunda of all places?

Very strange one off that doesn't really fit in anywhere.

They're mining units, and are AdMech robots slaved to an Ambull brain with several aggression inhibitors implanted, as the Ambull has great digging instincts. Fits perfectly with how 40k works imo, very grimdark.

warl0rdb0b wrote:

Voss wrote:
I'm just not sure how they fit into the setting.

They look neat, sure... But xenos styled robots that...something something? Why were they made? Are they actual robots (as opposed to fancy power armor, are they AIs, etc)? Why necromunda of all places?

Very strange one off that doesn't really fit in anywhere.

They're mining units, and are AdMech robots slaved to an Ambull brain with several aggression inhibitors implanted, as the Ambull has great digging instincts. Fits perfectly with how 40k works imo, very grimdark.

Also gives it a nice bonus of being able to switch off the inhibitor and watch it go berserk behind enemy lines as the Ambull brain tries to work out what the hell just happened to it

warl0rdb0b wrote:

Voss wrote:
I'm just not sure how they fit into the setting.

They look neat, sure... But xenos styled robots that...something something? Why were they made? Are they actual robots (as opposed to fancy power armor, are they AIs, etc)? Why necromunda of all places?

Very strange one off that doesn't really fit in anywhere.

They're mining units, and are AdMech robots slaved to an Ambull brain with several aggression inhibitors implanted, as the Ambull has great digging instincts. Fits perfectly with how 40k works imo, very grimdark.

I would add that in 40k parlance, it is technically a servitor not a robot, because it uses a (non-sentient) xenos brain as the base cortex, rather than a fully artificial cortex like Cybernetica robots.

This is basically like using a rabbit brain for a mining servitor, if rabbits were huge, violent xenos dripping baby rabbit-grubs out of their armpits.

Voss wrote:
I'm just not sure how they fit into the setting.

They look neat, sure... But xenos styled robots that...something something? Why were they made? Are they actual robots (as opposed to fancy power armor, are they AIs, etc)? Why necromunda of all places?

Very strange one off that doesn't really fit in anywhere.

Goliaths have a croc with cybernetics.
It's not uncommon for gangs to have pets.
Alot of the time you see a mixed xeno race in the lower class areas, so mutants, creatures etc all in one area.
Wouldn't be the first time in the 40k universe they made a cybernetic version of a creature or augmented one.

But to me, this is GW trying to slap a bigger pricier kit into necro.
They do it with all systems so it wouldn't surprise me if that was the sole reason.

If they wanted to launch these, it's about the best system to do so with as it wouldn't fit into any other.
They will likely sell a ton as conversion fodder however.

It is stated that Ambulls in captive are common across the Imperium, and the Ambot is a product of the Admech to use the ambull brain as an autopilot digging and tunnelling program for the robot body.

Escher have been importing xenos and strange beasts to Necromunda and do all sort of experiment and gene splicing on them.

Also Necromunda is one of the biggest weapon manufacturer for the Imperium so don't be too surprised they are wealthier than an average hive.

Is Escher having ambulls the 40k equivalent of the hot girl at school having crabs?

Theophony wrote:Is Escher having ambulls the 40k equivalent of the hot girl at school having crabs?

the size of those, scratch scratch, they feel huge, scratch scratch, like Dungeness huge!
but short answer....yes.

According to their fluff the gangs dont officially have or make them, they are shipped to necromunda to work in their mines and people keep stealing them, and due to either corruption or just bad imperial management they are lost track off. Based on their rules they seem to change hands alot on the black markets of necromunda, likely until enforcers find them and sent them back to their owners. Its the equivelent of street punks breaking into factories and stealing a digger or van (likely pretty easy when often their gangs own/work in necromundas mining works)..

There are loads of serivtors and machines and half machine monsters in the Underhive. Remember whilst its a wasteland down there its a wasteland built from the crumbling habitats of a highly advanced manufacturing world of the Imperium. Waste crushed by new build atop that continually smothers it down whilst quakes and shakes and gang and house warfare breaks down areas too.

There are vast and mighty machines and devices in the underhive and that's before you get people chucking stuff down there to get rid of it.


Ambulls might be rarer, but they are down there, along with huge servitor machines and the like. Heck there's one of the earlier Necromunda stories that focuses around a powerful old machine long thought lost and abandoned within the hive.

Underhive zones are also reclaimed and re-incorporated into the hive city. I suspect Ambots would be useful for clearing rubble and reopening these areas for re-population. Sure, human derived servitors would be good but any miscreants might think twice before jacking an Ambot.

Needless to say I love 'em and will be adding them to my mining terrain.

If you just want something to do typical hard labour and didn't get stolen, you probably want the Ogryn Servitor. Not Ambot.

Chopstick wrote:
If you just want something to do typical hard labour and didn't get stolen, you probably want the Ogryn Servitor. Not Ambot.

They have those too. And the gangs nick those as well.

Both sets of Galiath heads are gone from FW webstore. Not sold out, not out of stock, just gone. Wanted to grab them today, sniff. Only the bundles with plastic bodies.

 CragHack wrote:
Both sets of Galiath heads are gone from FW webstore. Not sold out, not out of stock, just gone. Wanted to grab them today, sniff. Only the bundles with plastic bodies.

It bugs me how GW has been doing that lately. Just deleting it entirely instead of listing it as out of stock. It creates a feeling of uncertainty and panic as to whether or not we missed out chance to get them for good. Guess it's time to bombard them with emails asking whether they will return.

The heads are still available as part of a bundle, only not on their own.

So they can't be bought on their own anymore?

 BrookM wrote:
The heads are still available as part of a bundle, only not on their own.

That doesn't help someone who already has a pile of unbuilt bodies though, do I really need ten more? I think not...

Blimey - kinda regret selling my spare Goliath heads off now, after taking the ones I wanted. Kept one additional, just in case, but... surprised they seem to have been the most popular! (If any sold out, I would have placed money on it being Cawdor).

 Thargrim wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
The heads are still available as part of a bundle, only not on their own.

That doesn't help someone who already has a pile of unbuilt bodies though, do I really need ten more? I think not...

Exactly. Has there been any explanation from FW as to what the hell is going on?

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Thargrim wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
The heads are still available as part of a bundle, only not on their own.

That doesn't help someone who already has a pile of unbuilt bodies though, do I really need ten more? I think not...

Exactly. Has there been any explanation from FW as to what the hell is going on?

I don’t know? Has anyone asked, instead of going off on one?

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Thargrim wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
The heads are still available as part of a bundle, only not on their own.

That doesn't help someone who already has a pile of unbuilt bodies though, do I really need ten more? I think not...

Exactly. Has there been any explanation from FW as to what the hell is going on?

I don’t know? Has anyone asked, instead of going off on one?

now where would be the fun in that??

Apparently it’s an error with the website (they mixed the product codes up for the gas mask heads and the non gas mask heads, so if you pre ordered one you’ll receive the other). The head only sets will be available again soon.

Cheers for the clarification.

"Oh you.." comes to mind with Forge World, but it's par the course really now.

 sockwithaticket wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
I mean, cool, but are most people going to need two?

For just Necromunda, possibly not, but I expect these will show up in Blackstone Fortress expansions and if there are any AdMech types out there who hate their daft looking toy robots, these would be a cool alternative. Plus conversion fodder (Killa Kans anyone?), I think GW are well aware that certain kits are used fairly extensively for conversions.

Oh, Jesus I forgot about Adeptus Mechanicus counts-as. A shoulder gun from the real kit is all that's needed, and would be stupidly simple to put on these guys.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Skinnereal wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
I mean, cool, but are most people going to need two?

Is this enough reason?

Oh, that's just playing dirty pool now, Lord Frey. First the Red Wedding, and now bringing robots against dragons and ice zombies?!

Well today I saw someone take the new Delaque kit and combine it with the heads and arms of the Neophyte Hybrid kit.

Makes Delaques that actually look like Delaques. Might have to give that a try.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Well today I saw someone take the new Delaque kit and combine it with the heads and arms of the Neophyte Hybrid kit.

Makes Delaques that actually look like Delaques. Might have to give that a try.

same here, a little shaving on the heads and bam no xenos

When you guys find some intersting pics of these cultists delaque guys please post them.

Saved a couple:



[EDIT]: Spoilering them as they look pretty huge.

those look great

Wow, those ones with the goggles worked out great.

Let's see if I have some bodies that have remained headless still laying around...

So I had emailed GW about the orlock cards and dice being out of stock/gone from the website. I was more concerned about the cards than the dice, but whatever. If a new player was to join into a local Necromunda campaign as orlocks he/she would have no ability to obtain these accessories (the cards being more important). Basically they said these were sold as while supplies last type items. The implication was that neither will be coming back (along with all other gangs dice). Thing is neither were advertised or described as being such a limited run by GW. They just quietly off stuff from the site when it's gone.

I know a lot of people are drinking the kool aid and thinking good ol GW has changed but I can't agree with that. A lot of other companies out there make it a point to let consumers know if something is a limited run, or is going to be gone permanently in a reasonable amount of time.

Well, thanks for calling me a cult member. Not sure how to take that, really.

Still, "while stocks last" can mean a few things - for one thing, Blood Bowl dice sets went out of stock and came back in, since they're made by another company; the same is probably true of card components like the card decks. Did they say they're never coming back, or that they'll be out of stock until a new print run is ordered?

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Well, thanks for calling me a cult member. Not sure how to take that, really.

Still, "while stocks last" can mean a few things - for one thing, Blood Bowl dice sets went out of stock and came back in, since they're made by another company; the same is probably true of card components like the card decks. Did they say they're never coming back, or that they'll be out of stock until a new print run is ordered?

Well you know what I mean, just because GW discovered the power of social media and interaction doesn't make them saints in my eyes. And they said they were "while supplies last items", and that they are now sold out, and said they wished they had better news. There is a slight meh vagueness there, but whatever. Since so many other GW dice sold out and never did, such as custodes and dark angels, etc. I would say they are indeed probably gone, at least for the foreseeable future. They are indeed probably manufactured/outsourced by other companies. And since GW is pumping out new stuff like a mad train, they don't bother to commission more runs of accessories, even though the orlock cards do have an impact on gameplay...unlike the dice.

Yes, I know what you mean. I just don't appreciate you connecting me to a murderous, suicidal cult just because I buy stuff from GW.

I doubt the cards are gone permanently; it'd be one thing if they were standalone optional accessories - in that case I could accept them being limited run items (I can use them against an opponent who also has them, and not use them against an opponent who does not), but they're written into all the scenarios as a balancing mechanism. I'm sure they'll be back.

Specialist Games do commission new runs of accessories - see Blood Bowl dice and pitches.

Eh, whatever. You were so close to making a coherent point about… something? Then you went ahead and proactively insulted anyone and everyone who disagrees with you. Why should anybody want to acknowledge you, much less engage with you, if that’s the quality of discourse we can expect?

I think we'll see the cards return. The gang leaders accessory pack disappeared for a while and re-appeared late last year. It's gone again, so I suspect that they are restocking and selling out rather rapidly. Even the blank fighter cards have vanished for now. Again, I doubt they'll be gone for long as they're pretty much vital for ongoing games...

Y'all need thicker skin if you actually get offended when someone says "drinking the Kool Aid".

Anyway, dice going away forever isn't that big a deal. If you got them, great. If you missed out, that sucks, but life will go on. The cards on the other hand? They're an intrinsic part of the game. They kinda need to keep them around.

Damn, I thought when the thread updated someone might have known the Ambot release date. Oh well, back to waiting.

 Thargrim wrote:
So I had emailed GW about the orlock cards and dice being out of stock/gone from the website. I was more concerned about the cards than the dice, but whatever. If a new player was to join into a local Necromunda campaign as orlocks he/she would have no ability to obtain these accessories (the cards being more important). Basically they said these were sold as while supplies last type items. The implication was that neither will be coming back (along with all other gangs dice). Thing is neither were advertised or described as being such a limited run by GW. They just quietly off stuff from the site when it's gone.

I know a lot of people are drinking the kool aid and thinking good ol GW has changed but I can't agree with that. A lot of other companies out there make it a point to let consumers know if something is a limited run, or is going to be gone permanently in a reasonable amount of time.

I wouldn't worry about the cards, you'll be much better off printing them yourself in magic card dimensions, which allows for sleeving and better storage and transportation with fancy deckboxes.

This tradition of pulling products without notice is something I've grown accustomed to with the initial release of Blood Bowl. Ever since, I buy pretty much everything at launch in fear of those products going out of production or unavailable for a long time (some blood bowl products was out of stock for a year).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 zedmeister wrote:
I think we'll see the cards return. The gang leaders accessory pack disappeared for a while and re-appeared late last year. It's gone again, so I suspect that they are restocking and selling out rather rapidly. Even the blank fighter cards have vanished for now. Again, I doubt they'll be gone for long as they're pretty much vital for ongoing games...

The tokens can be useful, but you could get by ok with other generic tokens. I would hardly call the cards vital. I've played N17/N18 for 1 year now and never needed a single fighter card.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Anyway, dice going away forever isn't that big a deal. If you got them, great. If you missed out, that sucks, but life will go on. The cards on the other hand? They're an intrinsic part of the game. They kinda need to keep them around.

I would much prefer to buy the dice (if I didn't already have them) than buy the cards. People who play Necromunda typically does so without the need to have GW selling them products. We didn't need GW to sell anything the last 15 years. When GW stop selling stuff for Necromunda, the community takes over. Anyone interested in the cards (in far superior dimensions), pm me.

Baxx wrote:
The tokens can be useful, but you could get by ok with other generic tokens. I would hardly call the cards vital. I've played N17/N18 for 1 year now and never needed a single fighter card.

Actually, it was the scenario cards I found especially useful. Been playing fine for the past year myself as well and I find the fighter cards vital. Don't have the time or inclination to make or print my own. And that's not forgetting the gang specific tactics cards as well...

 Mr_Rose wrote:
Eh, whatever. You were so close to making a coherent point about… something? Then you went ahead and proactively insulted anyone and everyone who disagrees with you. Why should anybody want to acknowledge you, much less engage with you, if that’s the quality of discourse we can expect?

That sounds very hostile!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 zedmeister wrote:

Baxx wrote:
The tokens can be useful, but you could get by ok with other generic tokens. I would hardly call the cards vital. I've played N17/N18 for 1 year now and never needed a single fighter card.

Actually, it was the scenario cards I found especially useful. Been playing fine for the past year myself as well and I find the fighter cards vital. Don't have the time or inclination to make or print my own. And that's not forgetting the gang specific tactics cards as well...

Yeah the cards can be many things. The Territory cards are ok and useful, but can be translated with a normal deck of cards, same with the sub-plots.

The fighteres cards I never understood the point of, but I've used a roster for 20 years so it may just be an old habit. They tried the fighter/player cards as an option for Blood Bowl, but I only found it useful for demo games introducing new players.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Y'all need thicker skin if you actually get offended when someone says "drinking the Kool Aid".

Offended? No, nothing in here is that important. I just wonder sometimes if people realise what the phrases they use actually mean.

I was assuming he meant the tactics cards; if they go away that's a problem. Everything else? not so much.

Fighter cards or roster? I like the physical act of shuffling the fighter cards to determine random gangers rather than rolling dice and counting down the roster, but it's not important. They're also somewhere handy to put counters, especially if the effects start stacking up (my Champion has suffered a Wound, has a Flesh Wound, is out of ammo and is still to activate this round; that's a lot of counters to pile up on the tabletop).

Baxx wrote:
I would much prefer to buy the dice (if I didn't already have them) than buy the cards. People who play Necromunda typically does so without the need to have GW selling them products. We didn't need GW to sell anything the last 15 years. When GW stop selling stuff for Necromunda, the community takes over. Anyone interested in the cards (in far superior dimensions), pm me.

Ok, but the community took over because GW stopped selling things.

Now they have a new version of Necromunda, and the cards are an intrinsic part of that. Ergo, they should be an evergreen product. That was my point, and is the central premise of my argument. Yours is that we don't need GW, which might as well be a non sequitur to what I'm saying.

Yes I agree.

Well, speak of the devil... guess what products are on last chance to buy?

Orlock cards are already gone.

Well done GW.

What the hell is going on?

Loads have gone up including a load of Kill Team and Blood Bowl gear. Surely they're doing some sort of re-boxing or consolidation. A lot of this is less than a few months old!

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Boxed-Games?N=3281529261+2385576319&Nr=AND(sku.siteId%3AGB_gw%2Cproduct.locale%3Aen_GB_gw)&Nrs=collection()%2Frecord[product.startDate+<%3D+1548370020000+and+product.endDate+>%3D+1548370020000]&view=all

Playtest decks will probably be replaced with a single pack of Version 1.0 cards (followed by massive errata a week later)

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Playtest decks will probably be replaced with a single pack of Version 1.0 cards (followed by massive errata a week later)

And another $40 book to top it, after all it is the GW way.

And it'll have 8 new cards that you could never get anywhere else.

Which means you’ll need to get the new card sleeves as the pack size of the old set will be too few to cover all the cards.

Wait... the Mortis and Gryphonicus decal sheets are going away? Why? They're web only and don't take up that much room in the warehouse.

 Breotan wrote:
Wait... the Mortis and Gryphonicus decal sheets are going away? Why? They're web only and don't take up that much room in the warehouse.

They probably just sold through whatever piddling little print run they had made.

Boy am I glad I got the Delaque cards. Some nifty stuff in there. Would'a sucked to miss out on the cards for my fav gang only 3 months after they were released.

Don't lose hope yet though. At least some of the AT stuff is NOT going for good despite being labeled "last chance to buy" as new stock is coming up. Maybe necromunda stuff is same? GW entered into realm where we can't tell what the "last chance to buy" REALLY means.

Locally, we have a combination. Most of us are old school so we use the lists more then anything else. Newbs get the new ganger lists and cards, so then it is easier to bring in a new player without whipping them like a dog.

Hardest thing is the added Underhiver stuff from back in the day, and using the new lists as opposed to some of the older stuff....

You have to do a lot of local agreements, and actually be gentlemanly about it.


Necromunda is by far one of my favorite GW games.... I am seeing some real potential with those new Genestealers, that I can honestly see them as a major threat to a local campaign.

I agree wholeheartedly about the Orlock cards and dice. BUT as much as I want to blindly insult random folks on the internet- My gaming has become precious, and I don't see the need to kick people in the face, unless they earn it.

Necromunda is a great game system, and the new stuff has really given it the injection it needs.... NOW I only wish that GW had a Necromunda department, ALA Outlanders magazine, and game department who could work full time on this Gem.


What map do you all use for your campaign system? Do you all have a Necromunda map running around, or do you just make one up?

Been a long time coming, but Bad Zone Delta rules are finally available for download.

About Malfunctioning Generatorium and Archaeotech Device: Guess you have to roll for hit to see if Shock triggers even if these electric features auto-hit?

I'm not sure how collapsed sections work:

Finally, if a weapon with the Blast trait is used and
the centre of the Blast marker ends on a Collapsed
Section tile, roll a D6 for each fighter on that tile.
If the test is failed, the floor shifts and the fighter is
moved D3" towards the nearest Pitfall (potentially
falling if they move into it).

Any ideas?

Initiative roll would be my guess

That would make most sense yes.

Funny they turned the turbine tile right and furnace tile left on the Gauntlet map. Looks like it gives more options for the attackers. This scenario was notoriously suicidal for the attackers. The new door placement (nr 2) doesn't seem to fit well. It isn't located between two walls.

One year into the future, there's still no purpose for the chrono crystal...

Top one is just the old FW Rogue Psyker, guess he’s being repurposed. Had not seen the bottom one before though. A bit hard to parse. Middle guy is still awesome!

Guilders?

Very tempting.

Where are those from? I like those.

I love Mr. Hovergut McRobohands.

Guess I am one of the few fools to buy Gang War IV then. Those last two are "hired guns" available in that book. The fat floater is a psyker.

All three look like trash. Hard pass.

Middle one is a bounty hunter, bottom one is his mutant psychic sidekick. They’re from Gang War 4.

Yikes, those pictures......I'm hoping the photos are making them look bad. The other bounty hunters look awsome, those look like they were sand cast....or something.

Chances are these are 3D prints, those are always rough around the edges.

Bounty hunter looks ace though, that's Arturos right?

 BrookM wrote:
Chances are these are 3D prints, those are always rough around the edges.

Bounty hunter looks ace though, that's Arturos right?

Yes indeed.

And I wouldn't worry about casting. All of my resin Forgeworld Underhive stuff has been top notch thus far so unless quality has suddenly dropped, these are probably just rough prints as Brook suggests or blurry photos

 Insurgency Walker wrote:
Yikes, those pictures......I'm hoping the photos are making them look bad. The other bounty hunters look awsome, those look like they were sand cast....or something.

No, they look like they were taken with a bad camera in poor lighting then JPEG compressed, then ‘fixed’ with the “magic wand”, then jpeg’d again.
It’s kinda funny how in this age of digital images everywhere, people don’t know, or forgot how to spot compression artefacts. Witness the “ProCreate” faction of nay-sayers when that original Primaris Sgt. was leaked…

The photos are screen grabs of yesterday's live stream on warhammer live, so they are photos of a video at low resolution in less than perfect lighting conditions.
They are all bounty hunters not guilders. Tony Cottrell said on the stream that they will share some info about Necromunda in 2019 at the heresy weekender.

Nice, been waiting for these. Especially Arturos since seeing his model in the rulebook.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
Nice, been waiting for these. Especially Arturos since seeing his model in the rulebook.

I'm looking forward to that one as well.

Any news from the live stream other than those pics?

Like, news on what happens when a product that is an intrinsic part of the game that is often used as a balancing factor in lop-sided matches suddenly isn't available anymore?

If you mean the cards being unavailable, no, since that was discussed the last time.

The Outlanders gangs (Ratskins, Scavvies, Redemptionists, PSyrers) won't be seen this year - there's new stuff to come instead. Things like a revision of the Venator gang, examples of new fighters such as Escher Death Maidens (possibly as recruitable members of a gang rather than hired guns like Kria). The Goliath bounty hunter character will be coming soon (but not so soon that we see him at the Weekender) with a new as-yet-unseen character. Phyrr Cats are again soon-ish. Longer-term - if Chaos Cults and Genestealer Cults are ever done as a Specialist Games release (rather than just as something to use the Citadel miniatures ranges for)

Suggested idea for a hired gun (nothing confirmed, just off-the-cuff discussion); a Blood Angel who succumbed to the Black Rage and suffers from amnesia, roaming the underhive murdering mutants and monsters.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
If you mean the cards being unavailable, no, since that was discussed the last time.

What did they have to say about it last time ?

That they're looking into restocking them.

Other threads here have suggested that GW are looking into alternative printers, or bringing card printing in-house, but I've no idea where that information comes from.

If they are printed in China, then there'll be a wait - the Chinese new year usually means manufacturing delays for a week or two (ask any number of delayed Kickstarters ). Depending on who they're using, they may also have to work around other work the printers are doing; if they're gearing up to print a billion packs of playing cards or whatnot, GW will just have to wait.

Eh, good news.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
If you mean the cards being unavailable, no, since that was discussed the last time.

The Outlanders gangs (Ratskins, Scavvies, Redemptionists, PSyrers) won't be seen this year - there's new stuff to come instead. Things like a revision of the Venator gang, examples of new fighters such as Escher Death Maidens (possibly as recruitable members of a gang rather than hired guns like Kria). The Goliath bounty hunter character will be coming soon (but not so soon that we see him at the Weekender) with a new as-yet-unseen character. Phyrr Cats are again soon-ish. Longer-term - if Chaos Cults and Genestealer Cults are ever done as a Specialist Games release (rather than just as something to use the Citadel miniatures ranges for)

Suggested idea for a hired gun (nothing confirmed, just off-the-cuff discussion); a Blood Angel who succumbed to the Black Rage and suffers from amnesia, roaming the underhive murdering mutants and monsters.

I thought we'd heard that only half the releases were going to be new gangs and the other half weren't?

Did they say specifically there's no outlanders this year?

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
If you mean the cards being unavailable, no, since that was discussed the last time.

The Outlanders gangs (Ratskins, Scavvies, Redemptionists, PSyrers) won't be seen this year - there's new stuff to come instead. Things like a revision of the Venator gang, examples of new fighters such as Escher Death Maidens (possibly as recruitable members of a gang rather than hired guns like Kria). The Goliath bounty hunter character will be coming soon (but not so soon that we see him at the Weekender) with a new as-yet-unseen character. Phyrr Cats are again soon-ish. Longer-term - if Chaos Cults and Genestealer Cults are ever done as a Specialist Games release (rather than just as something to use the Citadel miniatures ranges for)

Suggested idea for a hired gun (nothing confirmed, just off-the-cuff discussion); a Blood Angel who succumbed to the Black Rage and suffers from amnesia, roaming the underhive murdering mutants and monsters.

That's pretty much all bad news IMO. I was hoping we'd see at least one or two of the Outlanders gangs this year, and for the love of feth can we have *one thing* that isn't smeared with Space Marines. Just one. I like Marines, it'd just be good to have one single, solitary product line from GW that focuses on other things. And don't give me any "just off the cuff" - if they're talking about it, they're seriously considering it, and if they do stuff like that it will be the thin end of the wedge.